ABC Nightline – St Pete Times article 21 October

St. Petersburg Times reporter Tom Tobin to appear Thursday in Scientology investigation by ABC’s Nightline

MiscavigeSPT St. Petersburg Times reporter Tom Tobin is expected to appear Thursday night in the first of two nights of reports on the Church of Scientology scheduled to air on ABC’s late-night news magazine Nightline.

The show plans to explore much of the same ground the Times uncovered in its first three-part series on the Church published in June, The Truth Rundown, outlining tales of violence allegedly perpetrated against high-ranking church officials by leader David Miscavige.

According to  a spokeswoman for the show, Nightline on Thursday will feature interviews with at least some of the sources featured in the Times‘ reporting — former high-ranking Church officials coming forward to publicly reveal controversial stories about Scientology leadership in a way never seen before. The show also features a recently-recorded interview with church spokesman Tommy Davis.

Friday’s story is expected to focus on the celebrity angle of Scientology — the church has aggressively courted celebrities such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta for decades — showing how famous names are treated inside the group and examining how Miscavige may be influencing Cruise’s behavior, according to the spokeswoman.

Nightline airs at 11:35 p.m. weeknights on ABC, WFTS-Ch. 28 locally. It is likely the Scientology stories will fill 60 percent of each night’s show.

111 responses to “ABC Nightline – St Pete Times article 21 October

  1. Yeah baby!!!

    Payback’s a bitch!

  2. wooooohoooooo yeah baby is right! stand up and appauld. This is great news. I was just thinking today this needs to go on Television and it is.

  3. Can’t wait!

  4. This is AWESOME!

    I bet little Davey is so frustrated right now.

  5. This is like really exciting

  6. Anybody know of a way to see the program via the Internet?
    If so, a link would be appreciated.

  7. What we have here is a case of supreme arrogance vs. lessons in history. No criminal in antiquity has ever been able to withstand the winds of change when mankind itself finally said, “Enough!”

    Do we represent a force much larger and stronger than Miscavige’s peanut empire? Are we speaking out not merely as “ex-staff” and “independent Scientologists” but as members of the human race itself?

    Time will tell.

    History is on our side.

  8. Lotus Miyamoto


    This is the power of truth at work here.

    In case OSA is reading all these comments, I ask you to please reconsider the support you are giving DM. Is he worthy?

    Take an honest look for yourself. You dont even have to tell anyone. Do it for yourself. Is this SP worth the sacrifice of your life. How will you feel sitting behind bars with him wondering how you fell for his lies and deceit? By then, it will be too late for you.

    Believe me he does not care one iota what happens to you and will waste you in a hot second to save his own skin. Please act before its too late for you too. I mean this from the bottom of my heart.

    Save yourself OSA guys. Choose truth and integrity over DM. He cannot harm you. He has no power unless you give it to him.

  9. Wow, can’t wait. Calendar is marked and ready for the next round and confrontation of truth — exposed.

  10. As a time coincidental thing if people want to announce publicly where they stand then scientologists in confusion after seeing the truth will have a similar stable datum to grab on to, and it will also make it more real.
    No evaluation intended though, just seems like a good time.
    Perhaps letting people know what you know, how you feel or evaluated it and when the program is on.

  11. Miscavige the documentary… how Napoleon, Hitler and now Miscavige came to power. Maybe this time the dictator will not completely destroy its people before something gets done about him.

    I am having some family over for the show on Nightline tomorrow…. should be interesting.

  12. Oh and…. HELL YEAH!!!

  13. I can’t wait to hear Tommy’s shrill screaming.

    I’m sure DM is shitting a brick right about now. I’d love to see his face when he found out about this.
    I hope soon those celebrities wake up and see that they are not treated the same way as a “normal” Scientologist.

  14. There is a “Watch Full Episodes” link off of the Nightline main wepb page here:

    I’m not sure how soon after the broadcast they post them, but I am sure a direct link will be posted once it is up.

  15. LOL! They are featuring a link to the DM Interview they did years ago…..Ladies and Gentlemen, for your viewing pleasure I give you “David Miscavige”.

  16. This is definitely “must see TV”!

    By the way for those who, like me watch TV on the net, go to the following link:

    I found if I sit up really close to my Power Book it’s almost like having a big screen…..well not quite 🙂

  17. Scientologist

    yeah, this is great!!!!!!!!!!

  18. Sir you’ve engaged a mechanisme that is very positive. There’s still a long way to go, but I’m optimistic about the outcome.

  19. Patty Pieniadz

    There are several people lined up to record the show and then put it up on youtube within a few hours.

  20. ABCs Nightline and all other ABC reports can be viewed here:

    Reports cataloged and made available the following day. However, a live feed can also be found at the above address.

  21. >> Anybody know of a way to
    >> see the program via the
    >> Internet?
    >> If so, a link would be
    >> appreciated.

    Anons will certainly upload it to Youtube the moment it’s been recorded.

  22. Underground For Now

    WOW!!!…Someone once said, “timing is everything”. On Friday night you can attend the 25th Anniversary IAS event and if you hurry home you can catch the main event on Nightline.

    What a contrast in realities. I’m looking at the current IAS promo. Tag line reads…”a quarter of a century of guaranteeing the future of Scientology”. This 2nd class tyrant as been so effective quaranteeing Scientology’s future that a network TV show is having to put ethics in on him.

    Both events in the same unit of time. How many ways can you spell motivator?

  23. thatsnotmyname

    UFN, brilliant observation.

  24. I hope somebody edits together a collection of Tommy Davis’ greatest moments whining at John Sweeney, Nathan Baca, Anderson Cooper et al. He’s really, truly laughable.

  25. It’s very interesting to note the reversal of the flow on the subject of ethics. The original purpose of the sea org putting ethics in on the planet has gone so far out off the rails that is now the non sea org dedicated scientologists who have to put ethics in on The very top of RTC and anybody involved with his crimes.

  26. Just to add to the above, see evidence on facebook under the profile of Revenimus Caesar. Totally KSW!

  27. Lotus, OSA is for sure monitoring this and other blogs.

    But what should other Sea Org members do?
    I heard that DM is in the possession of a legal paper – allegedly by LRH – saying he is entitled to his position.

    Leaving may just result in that new Sea Org members will take the place of the old guys and new SO members will follow DM’s ways too, perhaps even more as they have no experiences as to how SCN was under LRH.

    Is there a way to peacefully and lawfully remove DM and making sure no new DM takes over?

    Do you or Marty or others have a proposal what they should do?

  28. Just saw the ad on TV!! I am recording it on my DVR!! So I can play it back for any who want to see it!

  29. Lotus Miyamoto

    DM being “entitled to his position” should be the least of his worries right now. He ought to be more concerned about going to prison for what he as done. Does he think that just because he has a “note from his teacher” he can commit all the violent acts he wants?

    On new staff following DM’s ways: What Sea Org member who is ethical would want to follow DM’s ways? No one. If the newbies read and really get LRH policies and apply them they will clearly see how Scn was under LRH and do very well indeed.

    As far as what the existing SO members should do to handle DM: He has run free to create enturbulation and destruction of lives for a very long time because he is very good at instilling fear in others around him. Now he is the one who is afraid because the more hideous acts he commits now the more power is given to those who are out to expose him and his crimes.

    Those SO members who, I guarantee you, know about his outnesses and are not acting with justice measures to remove him have integrity issues of their own.

    DM’s actions have greatly harmed the reputation of the Sea Org and have made the Sea Org a criminal organization in the eyes of the public. Personally I think he is leaving as destructively as possible.

    Is there a way to peacefully and lawfully remove DM and making sure no new DM takes over? Lawful removal will occur since he has committed crimes for which he can go to prison.
    Peaceful removal? I doubt he will go peacefully even when handled in a peaceful way since he can only destroy. He has lowered the repute of the Sea Org causing public to think the SO “getting in ethics” is a joke since ethics are so out in their own group. SO members who are in-ethics and doing their jobs and are upstat do not deserve the betrayal he has given them in exchange for their hard work and loyalty. This is just my view but I think he is leaving as destructively as possible.

    Do you or Marty or others have a proposal what they should do? LRH has it written it in Ethics and Justice policies already. Why reinvent the wheel, like DM has attempted to do to a destructive result for himself and others.

  30. Yes VERY ironic!!

  31. Thanks Tommy. I left a comment there. I encourage others to do so. Also there is a link on the site where you can write to the editor and give them information directly. This would be a good opportunity to get more stories out there.

    Here is the link:

  32. Just came across this article in Australia. Hmm seems a little fishy. What could possibly be in his PC folder that was so damaging?,25197,26248730-5006786,00.html

  33. Hopefully the truth will be made known and this will not be just an attack on the philosophy. The current incumbent has altered and changed the philosophy and application of same and is running a dictatorship, not a church.

    The successes of the philosophy under Hubbard are now being wasted and perverted under the current management.

  34. Hallelujah!

  35. Michael, we’re going to get some of both. I’ve thought this over and agree this is the course of action to take. It’ll be water under the bridge if we can get things back on track.

  36. No, this is not awesome! Cool, etc.

    This is dead serious.

    There is too much huppola, cheering going on here everyone.

  37. There, Anderson Cooper and CNN! See how easy it was? Good job, Nightline. Everything Marty, Amy, Mike, BH and Devo said is true. Tommy, not so much.

  38. Nice job Marty. TD I have to admit gave a good performance but I don’t think will convince anybody in the face of numerous witnesses. I hope this gets people thinking.

  39. I just watched the Nightline show tonight. Great job Marty! You, Amy and Bruce came across great.

    And Tommy Davis’ denials were so obviously strained and false.

    Can’t wait for Part II tomorrow.

  40. Ex-RPFer, the Coroner’s Report is available here:

    There’s a sub-heading “Church of Scientology” on page 14.

  41. Marty, THANK YOU SIR! You are a man of integrity and truth and I can’t wait to stand by you publicly.

    I watched tonight’s “Inside Scientology” on Nightline. You are truly amazing. Thanks to you, Amy and Bruce for revealing DM’s crimes nationally.
    Tommy lied through his teeth as usual tonight. As the spokesperson for the church, he couldn’t even answer Martin Bashir’s question about how often an RPFer is allowed to see his/her family members. Tommy couldn’t remember it “from the top of his head”. Ha!
    Tommy, you’ve already lied about the Church’s disconnection policy and OT levels, quite frankly I think you have lost all credibility. The more you lie, the more you encourage people to leave the Church, so thanks for opening people’s eyes to your tactics.

  42. Terrfic job! Thanks to everyone for speaking out and especially you, Marty.

    So what’s it feel like, on the other side now, to have Scientology say you’re nothing but a liar?

    I’ll have a better quality version of the show up soon, I hope, but here’s a crappy one if anyone missed it:

  43. The C\S crams and instructions to the auditor, for one thing. The squirrel tech for another.
    That they were attempting to call him repeatedly just after he “finished” some auditing is an indicator of some outness, whether it be an unflat process, a false auditors report covering up some other form of by-passed charge….

    This is a perfect example of OUT-KSW, and using Scn harmfully. Which is apparently all they know how to do anymore.

  44. Mark,
    When I experienced being called a liar by DM’s dupes, it helped me to isolate individuals doing the falsely accusing. One of DM’s favorite tricks is to make it seem like a vast generality is attacking in an attempt to overwhelm by numbers. It isn’t. It’s just him and those duped by him.

    ‘Scientology’ is a subject, very important to a lot of very good beings, myself included. What is successful, starting with the Tampa Bay Trib articles, on the public line, is to select the right target: individuals run amok.

    The subject isn’t calling you, and I, and those involved in this, liars. Specific people are. When that is made clear, and that fact honed in on, and those specific individuals and their dishonest, unethical travesties brought to light, then a whole lot more decent people will pay attention and lent a hand in all this.

  45. I haven’t seen this new one yet, but I just saw most of the original truth rundown. I’d only seen a few clips of the whole thing, wow. OSA I can’t believe you can watch this and still support DM, this just increased my own certainty of what’s happening 1000 percent. You’re the biggest cowards I’ve ever heard of. If anyone gets messed with like Roberto or just needs help with something during this time, let me know.

    This is going to be much easier than I thought to turn things around. Everyone just needs to watch these videos, problem solved.

  46. If you need a stable datum about DM, there is ONE LRH definition he demonstrably lives by – MUSICAL CHAIRS.

    “Musical Chairs – 6. musical chairs in life is the mechanism below ARC breaks in Grade III! To unstabilise gives ARC breaks! Whole staff can be put into a sad effect! This is the mechanism governments use. It’s the basic tool of the socialist. If he can just unstabilise everyone he can kill them with degrade. It’s a basic tool of the insane to maintain their own stability by unstabilising everyone else.” – LRH Admin dictionary.

    THAT is what he is doing with 10 year RPF stints, no one getting hatted, trained, processed, etc. and with his squirrel solution of mocking up a ‘final solution’ of the IAS. An organanization that really does not exist, except to take your money and convert it in to unaccountable dollars.

  47. Mark, with all due respect. You aren’t just anyone who left the cult. You were one of it’s top dogs. We white gloved our offices for you. I really feel that the interviews don’t get the fact that you answered only to DM, Rinder wasn’t even quite at your heights. That’s the significance of you hitting a staff member! I’ve held mgmt positions but never at such a high level that I knew I could get away with smacking someone. You did because your immediate leader led by example and demonstrated it. That’s the insanity we need to here about, that’s what will get the publics blood boiling.

  48. Thanks Marty, Amy, Bruce, and Mike for the fantastic interviews. It’s wonderful that you guys are speaking out, and telling the truth about David Miscavige.

  49. I’d like to give a shout out to Tommy Davis:
    Tommy, I’m sure some people watched you on ABC last night and thought “What a candy-ass, wet noodle, mama’s boy who can’t lie his way out of a cookie jar. He must be DM’s latest bitch.” I just want to say – don’t buy the criticism, Tommy. People are just jealous. You really are the MAN. You don’t just run in the tall grass with the big dogs, as you say. You truly stand alone.

    I heard yesterday that a paparazzi got a picture of you making out with Kirstie Alley in Italy. If that’s true then it just strengthens my opinion of you. Please keep up the war against truth and human decency!

  50. Well, just as expected, Tommy’s handling is so glib and full of falsehoods. He pretended not to know about the RPF and blatantly lied about being allowed to communicate to any family member while doing the most degrading program called RPF. You are simply prohibited from communicating to anybody other than your fellows RPFers and the RPF In Charge. Tommy Davis strikes again!!!! LIAR!!!

  51. Tommy Davis´ TRs stinks! It is definitely NOT a pass on lie TR´s!!

  52. A job well done. My hats off to Marty, Amy and Bruce. What confront it takes to be out there on the front lines subjecting yourselves to all the church’s denials of whatever you say. It never ceases to astound me that they simply refuse to take any responsibility at all for any of their actions all the while, insisting that everyone else does.

  53. Thanks to all who speak out against the abuses. Watching Bruce describe his brief interactions (a wave) with his son, whilst on the RPF, broke my heart. This is wrong on so many levels.

  54. Hi Matt, long time no see. We used to be togheter at same base for a while. Get in touch.

  55. Do you guys know that Tommy Davis has disappeared from facebook right after being reprimanded by Revenimus Caesar? The message is visible at Caesar’s profile while Tommy is gone from the site.

  56. I liked the first showing of Nightline. I thought it exposed some of the things wrong with the COS.

    Friday nights show was disappointing to me. It seemed to be more of an attack on the philosophy rather than DM and his out-points.

    I thought Tommy Davis did a good job defending the philosophy.

  57. Just watched Part Two. Tommy’s performance took a sharp nose dive over last night. I wish Bashir had asked him about his comments on CNN on disconnection since those so easy to disprove. It’s right in any ethics book and not necessarily a bad policy if applied sanely and as a last resort but has been taken to utter absurdity.

    I can only say I feel sorry for Tom Cruise. He has been completely dominated or subverted by dm and turned into an international fool. It would be pretty distasteful for him to wake up which is my theory of why he doesn’t. Confusion and the stable datum?

    I just left a comment on the nightline website and I would suggest others do so as well. It’s the most watched story on their site right now. Be interesting to know what the numbers are.

  58. Yeah it’s interesting how they preach so much about responsibility while taking it to a complete no responsibility.

  59. thatsnotmyname

    So, Tom Cruise’ lawyer has said he knows about the abuse “allegations” and the accusers “are all lying”. Message to Tom: re-study the Chart of Human Evaluation and Tone Scale. Watch all the videos on Then say in front of a camera they are all lying again. Go on, Tom – show your conviction and integrity.

  60. Well done ! Continue. I start to get the feeling the whole problem can be handled in some months.

    If we compare Tommy Davis to Mike Rinder, as was done with a short sequence in the show, there are universes beetween them.

    Tommy Davis seems to never have done a Communication Course !

    I vote for that Mike writes a cramming on Tommy and also sends him his Hat write up.

  61. I agree with Alex. Part 2 was a hatchet job on the doctrines of Scn. I actually don’t blame Tommy for walking out on the upper level inquisition. A dissapointing show, should have left it to Part 1 only.

  62. Concerned Citizen

    I too felt the same disappointment, it turned the show into an attack on the religion and not just it’s abuses. When doing pieces on Catholic priest, no one ever takes up the theology, when doing pieces on “the family” they never take on the theology, only the abuses and the flawed policy.
    So night line in fact gives the Church a hiding place, it says to Scientologist of good will, these are all the efforts of a pharmaceutical- industry-subsidized group, to destroy for profit, the religion they have come to hate. It is not true, and slows us down. The general public are very aware, that something is not right with the Church and it’s ways, but most Scientologist are really not aware and this lack of respect for what we hold sacred is maddening. But what really incensed me was that no effort was made to distinguish Marty and Amy from those who speak derisively of something like that.

  63. martyrathbun09

    Yes. A cheap shot. And pretty deceptive in that they never hinted the subject matter would arise, nor pose the questions to me. However, as long as DM and co continue to dodge and lie and BLOW from the questions – the more they’ll be hit with it.

  64. What a person agrees with in their religion is what they agree with. To get off the subject of abuse and onto the doctrines was a wild card.

    Unfortunately Tommy Davis could not hold his own on this . As for the e meter remark so what that is what is used by the church. As far as the other, well all religions have an evil source and that could have been handled and moved through. But all in all it was a cheap shot.

    In order to stop the abuse it must be exposed and that is what all of this is about and I don’t know that people like Martin can do that. Scientology has been attacked for a very long time and no one has truly just handled the fact that is is a workable technology that is led by a Stalin!

  65. Alex,
    Here’s what I would have said to Martin Bashir:
    “I’ve given my sacred word of honor to not discuss these materials out of context. Surely you can respect that, Martin. Surely you wouldn’t presume to tell me what is ‘truth’ about the origins of life, the spirit, the universe. Surely you’ll respect the Constitution’s grant of freedom of religion. Are you an American? Well, then let’s celebrate our rights and NEXT QUESTION.”

    That’s one possible response. Poor Tommy was sandbagged and he’s obviously not ready to handle these types of reporters. Flapping at them isn’t flying. Pun intended.

  66. Part two was nonsense. Upper level stuff discussion doesn’t belong anywhere.

  67. NOTSaware, I can’t find Revenimus Caesar, do you have a link?

  68. Dawn and NOTSaware I completely agree with you and I am a former NOTS Auditor. This Part 2 all reminded me of the BBC 1 hour documentary on Scn in 1987. Pure Rubbish.

    Religious practice is a private matter and sacred matter.

    Unfortunately Tommy Davis could not handle the moment. This is way out of his league (he is not OT III from my reports), and he is victim of probably the same person that drilled him for hours on these attacks -DM.

    DM should have shown his face and faced the podium, he is an utter coward. Reminds me of Nixon.

  69. Hi Jim,

    Thanks for the comment. I agree that Tommy could have done better, but he did pretty good in my opinion on fielding the commentators attacks on celebrities not having the “training” to condemn psych drugs and a few other points. I feel he could have just listened to the “OT” questions and kept his TR’s in and just said ” I don’t discuss these types of questions.” He didn’t need the drama and that made him look reactive.

    On another note, I saw a large part of the IAS event tonight and I must say that it looks like the COS is doing a lot of good things to combat Psych abuses and so forth. It is hard to believe that an SP would be orchestrating these activities.

    I do believe that DM has abused Sea Org members and this is TOTALLY not ok with me. I also see that the real production of the COS is not visible and I feel that the finances need to be transparent too. There are a lot of out-points and a lot of plus points too.

    It is a hard decision for me on whether or not to leave the COS. To be truthful I find it easier to communicate to you all here than my friends and staff in the COS. I am always feeling that they will condemn my views and get into that “natter” argument, which I really hate.

    I am starting to feel that I won’t leave the COS for now but I will communicate my views more and more openly and if I get declared an SP for saying what I believe then I will feel ok about that. Knowing that if they are not willing to get their ethics points handled and they would rather get rid of me, then so be it.

    Your comments would be appreciated.

    Your friend,

  70. Shawn's friend

    To be fair to Martin, the Xenu story must seem bizarre, hence the question. Tommy clearly had no idea on how to respond to it. Martin did continue on the abuses, so all was not in vain.

  71. Yeah I agree with you both. As far as I’m concerned ABC took a Neanderthal leap backwards into the stone age, in the second program.

    “What about your bizarre beliefs?”


    Maybe ABC needs to actually read the First Amendment and clear up their gross mis-us.

    Anyway I kinda figured that poor Tommy hadn’t done OT III and that our oh so “objective” pillar of the fifth column….er…I mean the fourth estate was keying the poor boy in.

    That said a lot of the blame can be laid on Miscavige for having a PR Flak that in his intercourse with some of the whores in the press (not that all of them are whores. In fact I thought the St. Petes Times did an excellent job on the story that CIA…er … I mean ABC fucked up) is going to run into a reporter spewing confidential data and to have someone who is not at least OT III to meet the press is either suppressive or stupid or both. Especially since he should know by now that this is definitely a possibility.

    Anyway I didn’t think I’d ever feel sorry for Tommy but I actually felt a pang of sympathy for the poor guy and a more burning hatred towards Miscavige for putting the poor kid in that position.

    I hope you are reading this Miscavige because as I’m concerned you are case wrecking slim ball who should be doing A-E from the comfort of a prison cell.

    Nothing but a criminal hiding under the cloak of Religion.

  72. You can say whatever you want about the sanctity of religious practice, but the fact is that there are no religious secrets left these days, anywhere. You can look on the Internet and quickly find the design for that embroidered underwear Mormons wear, and accurate descriptions of their secret initiation ceremonies.

    Do Catholics literally believe in transubstantiation? Yes, some do. Did Mohamed ride to heaven on a winged horse? Sure!

    If Tommy had a clue about journalism, he might have suspected the topic would come up, just as it did when he was interviewed by Nathan Baca. His huffy exit was an admission of abject failure. Xenu has been out of the bag for way over a decade and is not about to go back in. DM and Tommy might as well get used to it, but they probably won’t.

  73. This is the most recent spin given at Flag.

    CoS and COB (DM) are being attacked like NEVER before because there is SOOOO much expansion. The church is always attacked when there is expansion. The pharmaceutical companies (which control our government) are behind the attacks. They want to get rid of COB because they are scared like NEVER before.

    So there you have it. All the “disaffection” is caused by the big pharma and with investigation it will be proven that ALL of these disaffected (Marty Rathbun, Gene Isene, Rinder, etc) are either being paid by the pharmaceutical companies or in fact victims of being under the influence of pharmaceuticals.

    Amazing that it has all been figured out so simply.

    Of course the IAS just needs several more $millions to terminatedly handle this ASAP.

    I personally know this to be true as Eli Lilly sponsored the Pot-0-potty for my 2009 SP Party. 😉

  74. Alex,
    I’ll do my best with your request and include some comment and one experience.

    First, there are many, many good beings active in the CofS, and there are many pluspoints. In any scene there will be both oupoints and pluspoints. The question is do the plus outweigh the out? If they do then the scene will survive. If they don’t it is headed to succumb.

    The largest pluspoint in the scene with all of us is the truth and workable body of LRH materials. The current sit of an SP in charge doesn’t diminish that pluspoint. It is a testament to the work that despite that sit, the materials shine through and beings continue to find their way on the road to truth with them.

    This isn’t a game of ‘us and them’, there is only ‘us’, Scientologists. So revel in the wins of Scientology and Scientologists, and anybody that is truly gaining and moving forward on the dynamics, Scientgologist or not (yet :-)).

    When I was doing the Key to Life back at the Int Base, it came up with several of the musicians, and quite a few others, that they were doing this course on a ‘one-way flow’. That is, not doing what the materials state and twinning and doing a ‘turnabout’. If you have done the course then you know that this turnabout is an imp0rtant part of it. It’s critical to the overall gains and part of the entire purpose of the materials.

    This ‘one-way flow’ was sanctioned by the then Senior CS Int, Ray Mithoff.

    I wrote a High Crime report on all involved, including those in RTC that either condoned, ordered, did, or approved of this cutative.

    I was a Gold Musician at that time, not a Cram Off and was wearing my hat as per KSW.

    The report was quite a sensation let me tell you. I became a target BUT, the practice ceased. Eventually I would be found guilty of some ‘SP act’ for this, BUT, the practice ceased, at least while I was around.

    It is the hat of every Scientologist to see that to the best of their ability and KRC that Scientology is kept working. If that means you get chopped for it, even declared an SP, then you’ll get some idea of just how ‘crazy wide’ a departure from the Ideal Scene it can be. (SeeDS 11 at the end of it for what to do when madness prevails at the ‘top’ for instance.)

    In the end, if Scientology achieves its lofty goals and purposes, it will be because we didn’t sell the pearls of our wisdom down the drain for empty ‘stats’, status, nice buildings, and ‘acceptance’. It will be because each of us assumes responsibility for our share of the impact of Scientology on the world around us. It will be because individuals had the courage to keep Scientology working despite ‘danger’ to their ‘immediate life’.

    Whether you personally make some public statement or not is not the issue. The issue is whether you maintain your integrity and wear your hat to keep Scientology working. If that means KRs, pointed questions, cramming, study and increasing your KRC to know and be able to handle what you observe, then do it. It doesn’t matter from what ‘standing’ you do it. It matters THAT you do it.

    If that means you will be ‘declared’, then you’ll have to decide what’s important in the longer scheme of things.

    You have to look at the man in the mirror. Check out your Code of Honor, accept your own counsel, and be ethical according to your own innnate reason. You’ll do fine.


  75. Alex,

    Just do what I do. Don’t give a thin dime for anything but your services (only if it’s 100 % standard Tech), do your basics at home if possible, keep in comm with your usual friends like you always do and stay informed with this website and simialr ones.

    You don;t have to make a committmnt either way, but be on conastant alert. If one of your friends originates to you,. then talk about it. Also don’t go to Propaganda filled events, and don’t buy any theories like Patty mentions. Just read and learn and make use of the internet.

    Final Stable datum: The only one you should trust is LRH.

  76. If OTIII is so sacred why did LRH create a movie script and try to have it made in the 70s? If you are interested look up “Revolt in the Stars”.

  77. I would be more enthusiastic about your “coming out” if you would publicly detail the decades-long campaign you waged against me, my family, friends and employers. But maybe you still think the early cult critics actually deserved being fair gamed.

  78. Another way Tommy could’ve handled it:
    “Well Martin, as a Scientologist I believe spirits, the word we use is thetan, are immortal beings not limited to one lifetime. It’s a form of reincarnation similar to what other religions believe in. Thru specialized forms of auditing after reaching certaain stages of spiritual enlightenment one can uncover events from before his current life. Mr Hubbard applied this to determine things about the orgins of man. I cannot, due to my religious oath, go any further describing specifics because sacred docrine requires OT level enlightenment.”

  79. Dennis,
    YOU can end the battle. Do you want to, is a question.

  80. “On another note, I saw a large part of the IAS event tonight and I must say that it looks like the COS is doing a lot of good things to combat Psych abuses and so forth. It is hard to believe that an SP would be orchestrating these activities.”

    I understand Alex but allow me to point out the fact that Miscavige and RTC (or do I repeat myself), have altered the Tech which is a High Crime in other words a suppressive act. Not only that but he is forcing others to apply this perversion of the Tech, which would never pass muster on the checklist as given in the HCOB “How to Defeat Verbal Tech” and canceling the valid certs of Auditors and C/Ses that don’t go along with his suppressive program!

    Personally I’ve never seen the lil’ Tyrant strike anyone but I have seen with my own eyes his perversions of tech and policy. Not only that but I’ve personally receiving end of his psywar op directed toward anyone who questions his absolute authority and trust me it ain’t fun.

    So what if he’s done a few nice things!

    To me it’s nothing but a cover or a front. Like Al Capone running soup kitchens or Hitler’s Brown Shirts doing charity drives for the poor or CIA sponsoring various cultural activities or KGB supporting peace activists. Its all nuttin’ but PR and so are these events.

    Look past all the glitter, the glamor and the platitudes.

  81. That’s my point Eldon what you write here is very true which is why most of my venom isn’t directed to the reporter who was just doing his job.

    Most of it was directed to the proper target Miscavige who should have known about this possible hazard to Tommy’s case and yet stuck him in the lion’s den anyway, like some kind of sacrificial lamb which just shows me that Miscavige probably considers Scientology to be a fraud or a scam, if he so caviler and unconcerned about the possibility of a lower level being exposed to confidential material.

    The fact is that if Miscavige showed any actual concern for Tommy or anyone else he uses or manipulates. He would have had Tommy do the ACs before throwing him to the media sharks.

  82. The battle with the cult was over when the confidential material hit the net.

    It was just a matter of time before it collapsed as we are currently seeing. The task is repairing the intentional havoc created in critics’ lives by DM, Marty, Rinder and the rest of the thugs that have done the bidding of whoever holds the reigns of power.

    I’m waiting to hear the full extent of their pogrom against me, my family, my friends and my employers over the last 29 years I have been active in educating people about the cult.

    What I have sacrificed in order to alert people earns me the right to ask for the back-story of their persecution.

    I am not battling anyone. I just want the truth to come out.

    How about it, Marty?

  83. Hi RJ,
    What have you directly observed as far as DM changing the tech? Or if you want to direct me to some place you have already written it that would be cool. I don’t dispute that he has, it is just hard to prove from my perspective. Just as I believe that he did strike Sea Org members, it apparently cannot be proven to others and just gets into he said, she said.

    I believe there is something wrong with all the Sec checking that is done on Solo Nots, but am not an expert in the field. Others seem (apparently) to think it is ok. When it comes to the subject of overts and withhold it can get introverting on whether or not it is right or wrong for a whole bunch of reasons.

  84. Hi Jim,
    Thanks for the good advice!
    I will check out DS 11

  85. No surprise here Patty.

    OSA entertains these big pharma conspiracy theories quite often.

    The earlier one was that big pharma had this plot to turn all the “public” (which means any of the upper middle class, the idle rich and elite deviants who could actually afford the stuff or thought they needed it. For obvious reasons.Not the the hard working lower middle class types that prefer other more reliable forms of self medication like pot, for instance) into “Illegal PCs”!

    Yeah I can just imagine Park-Davis with a copy of the “Illegal PCs” Pl in their hands saying to one another in their board meetings “Let’s hook Kiefer Sutherland on Zyban before the Church of Scientology gets him!”


    OSA sometimes even makes David Icke look like Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  86. martyrathbun09

    RJ, you really bring some culture to this blog.

  87. martyrathbun09

    I take you haven’t been around for long. When LRH was around Scientology was about people. It has slowly but surely become about MEST. Even these comments to the effect of”what about the basics, they were cool” are missing the forest for the trees. All the basics are on auditor training courses, the Academy Levels. So, the SP cross orders training, in order to make himself right for making everybody go do “basics.” . Look, when the Dear Leader was off my back for a rare several month period and I was auditing Cruise, between sessions I grabbed the CO CC by the nape of the neck, dragged him out of the Reg office where he lived, and word cleared him on HCO PL How to Boom an Org Through Training. I took him up to the Academy, bypassed DM’s PAC RTC Rep approval line on TRs and metering. CC started making auditors, and concentrating on nothing else. The place boomed, Affluence non-stop from when we started in Feb 02- through Dec 03. Non stop. It got so insane, they had to reject Academy line up students back to ASHO because they emptied to come where auditors were being made. We can “he said – she said” all year long and it results in nothing. LOOK my friend. Draw your own conclusions. Someone explaining it to you perpetuates what on-line public have become: unthinking automatons in denial.

  88. martyrathbun09

    That was your last message on this board for this reason. You are an arc breaky, continuous overts punk. I was training on the ship when DM decided to sue you for copyright infringement for posting upper level material. I had nothing to do with the decision to sue you. I did study the history and was involved in the case – ongoing – long after I returned. You posted the material for the purpose of denigrating Scientology and LRH. You did not do a public service to Scientologists who did not agree with the perversion of LRH tech. You did all in your power to denigrate LRH tech. You then settled out for big bucks. You are for sale – and were bought – and do not warrant the time of day of those who frequent this board who seek the ability to practice Scientology absent criminal, intolerant attempts to suppress their rights. Good Bye.

  89. Hi Mr.,
    I couldn’t do any auditing services now that I am perusing these blogs. i would not want anymore sec checking which is mostly what I get anyways on Solo Nots.
    Where did you audit at?

  90. It’s stories like this CC Int one and the OC heyday ones and many others I’ve read about that convince me we’re going to have huge upstats once DM is off the lines. Imagine orgs pumping out auditors again and all the production that results from that. It’s got to make you excited if your a Scientologist on this website right now, because one way or another we’re going to do it.

  91. Yeah DE is a waste of time, good call.

  92. Hi Marty,
    I have been around since the late 1970’s. I have never been in the Sea Org. I do see some non-optimum changes in the COS for sure. I believe that DM has done dastardly deeds. I’m sorry if I offended you in some way. As I have said before I believe that you are doing good. Maybe I am in a Q&A and in a non confront. I feel that I am confronting it more than most.
    This whole thing has just sprung into my view in the last 2-3 months and it is a lot to swallow. I hope you allow me to continue to post here as I find it very valuable.

  93. Barney Rubble

    Hi Alex,

    There is a lot of Dev-T here, but I hope you got my original messag, taken from the gut.

    Good Luck,

  94. martyrathbun09

    Sorry if I came after you Alex. It is difficult for me to comprehend how the Kook Aid drinkers can continue to support a scene that is so blatantly anti-LRH I sometimes lash out. I apologize.

  95. Hi Marty,

    No problem, you are THE MAN!!

    I know I haven’t gone through what you have. When I saw you on the Nightline show I could feel your pain. I am on your side believe me. It is just such a shock for me seeing the Church I have loved for so long going up in smoke, it is hard to confront sometimes. I have had some tough experiences but mostly as a PC and pre-OT and have donated a lot of money and worked my ass off to do that.

    I understand that you have a lot of guts and it must get tough at times and if you have to snap once in awhile I understand. Who ever heard of a tame ethics officer??

  96. Thanks for the compliment Marty 🙂

    Alex I can’t find the reply thingy for the question you asked me which is :

    “What have you directly observed as far as DM changing the tech?”

    Well I do have a KR on Steve’s site at the following link:

    Also when I was in I have written extensively on how the “Golden Age of Tech” is a violation of policy in particular HCOPL 24 April 1965 entitled Drills Allowed as follows (fair use)

    The only allowed Practical drills on any Scientology Course including PE are:
    1. Modified Comm Course for PE.
    2. Original Comm Course TRs 0-4.
    3. Original Upper Indoc TRs.
    4. E-Meter Drills contained in Book of E-Meter Drills.
    5. Dissemination Drills when I write and release them.
    NO other practical drills of any kind will be permitted.
    Other Practical Drills are abolished. Reasons: They consume time uselessly, suppress actual processes and mess up data and cases. I did not develop or authorize these drills and have now seen that they teach alter-is of easy processes. They are not needed.
    They make poor auditors. I have just reviewed this matter thoroughly and have traced several training failures to these Wild cat Drills. Further, I traced several failed cases on course to them.
    Somewhere along the line somebody went mad inventing “drills” and “TRs”. If this is permitted to continue, we will no longer turn out good auditors. The standard drills as listed above have proven sufficient for years…

    (end fair use)

    Plus I’ve written dozens of reports on how each of the Golden Age of Tech Drills violated the various HCOBs they were purportedly or “exclusively based on” and suggested that they should be canceled per the HCOB “How to Defeat Verbal Tech”

    Various reports on how this “Ideal Morgue” program violated various PLs. Actually T Paine report on Steve’s website is the best I’ve seen written on the matter so I’ll link to his that covers the matter more in-depth so I’ll link to his:

    So there is a lot of stuff that Miscavige is doing that is out tech and off policy. This thing about running a Pre OT on sec checks every six months that you’ve mentioned violates C/S Series 73 and its later revisions and there is so much more that this guy has done that is covered under Suppressive Acts and High Crimes , you could write a book about it.

    All I ask Alex is that you read the actual source references and look how far off source this guy is!

  97. Barney Rubble


    You and I are on the same boat brother, And, sorry I can’t reveal where my location was at.

    I get you are getting these messages. But I am afraid Im getting tired of these message boards.

    If you wish, you can give me your e mail address.

    I think I have given my position very perfectly clear to you all along,

  98. Barney Rubble


    I see you’ve rightfully survived the wrath of this thread, well done.

    I know what you and I communicated back and forth originally. Ask me freely /or interview your first thoughts. Keep that in mind.

  99. Jonathon Barbera

    Amy and Marty were definitely the stars of the Nightline show!

    Martin Bashir comes off rather professional. I would recommend him as the next official church spokesman. (Not being a Scientologist seems to have no relevancy on the position.)

    And speaking of Tommy Davis, he’s obviously gunning for the Old Man’s (DM’s) job now! (Power is assumed and all that jazz.)

    Thanks to everyone who made the Nightline show happen!

  100. Hi Barney Rubble,

    I don’t think that I have communicated with you before. There is another person on this blog by the name of MR, are you the same person?
    I don’t think that this blog is dev-t. I think that there are some serious issues within the COS that are not being handled internally and I do not know why OSA is not here trying to REALLY remedy these out-points.
    Such as, if it is true that most of LRH’s Saint Hill Org staff are now declared SP? How about all the Class XII’s that are now gone? How about the lying about not influencing the disconnection from “SP’s”?
    What do you want to communicate to me? Do it here in the open. I’m sorry but I smell a rat.

  101. Barney Rubble,

    One other point. You know what I like about Marty? You always know where he is coming from. He doesn’t mince words. I would like to see more of that in the COS instead of all the covert no- answering that goes on. I like a person who is straight up.


  102. Thanks RJ.

    I will look at all that data. I have only had about 2-3 moths to “decompress” and I am making good TA in my opinion. Thanks again for all that you guys are doing.

  103. Barney Rubble


    Relax, I am in complete agreement with all this stuff. Having been in the SO for decades, I’ve witnessed this phychotic dramo scene’s for years.

    I don’t know where you got that idea from, maybe I said something wrong. But I assure you I am not a Rat. I won’t go public, because of familial reasons, but I certainly won’t support this movement, until serious major changes are made. Just like I’ve been doing for about 11 years now.


  104. Hi Barney Rubble,
    Thanks for the clarification. If you want to give me your email address here then I will write you and see what you are getting at.
    I like what is going on here because it is exposing the out-points of the COS, so it can get it’s ethics in.

  105. Alex, if you’ve only been out for 2-3 months, which is what you meant I think, I’d appreciate some info on the current scene, specifically stats. Please email me at if you were working at an org management level, as apposed to a service org, thanks.

  106. Barney Rubble


    It’s sports This is probably the most exciting time since probably the 80’s.

    And it is spectacular. I am enjoying this on the grandstand.

  107. Marty,

    Sorry if I take a dissenting position here. I understand that by now you probably feel a bit (a lot?) frustrated by these guys coming up making you responsible for this, responsible for that, demanding that you take responsibility for this, that, for their lives, etc. I know this can be hard and sometimes frustrating.

    I respect your views as you always respected mine.

    However I want to add one thing re Elrich. I did not agree with several of his posts on ARS, yet I have to admit that if several of the so called “advanced materials” are today available freely, there was also his contribution. He may have expressed opinions which we do not agree with, but anyhow if today the advanced materials are free there was also his contribution and it was an important one.

    He may not stand on the same ground as we do, he may have different aims, think differently regarding the importance of the materials we value, he may have settled with the C. of S., yet we have to admit he did something that at the end helped. In my view he contributed to freeing the subject.

    Again, without becoming tweetie weetie, I think we should talk about reconciliation. Some more, some less, during these last years we all went through hell and despair. Yet we once stood all on the same side: we all wanted to improve personally and to help others. I think all ought to be more tolerant one another.

    Just my 2 cents.


  108. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for respecting my views. I certainly respect yours. Doesn’t mean we have to adopt one another’s. You and I will have a chance to discuss this in more detail.

  109. Well said Paolo
    A lot of people still have anger over being fair- gamed etc and need some kind of reconciliation so that they too can go forward.

  110. Pingback: Marty Rathbun re. ABC Nightline’s Part 2 of special report on Scientology « Xenu Directory’s Weblog

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