Why case gain is hard to come by in C of M

LRH from the State of Man lectures, January 1960, Washington D.C.:

An auditor-preclear situation is a third dynamic situation. That’s a third dynamic situation. And clearing a person starts right there in that auditing session. Now, any HCA can tell you better than I can — I think the number of the Auditor’s Code is 9, though, isn’t it? Isn’t that it? Whichever one it is. It’s “two-way comm must be established.” It’s a breach of the Auditor’s Code actually. We’ve had it with us for years. But what did this mean?

Well, this meant, essentially, that the preclear had to be willing to talk to the auditor. Well now, several things have to be guaranteed before this takes place. And one of the things that has to be guaranteed is that the preclear has some security in talking to the auditor that the information will not be falsely used. Isn’t that right?

audience: Yes.

So this leaves us with an organizational responsibility heavier and bigger than we have ever had in the past.  We’ve now got to go all out and make sure that a certificate means, wherever it is to be found, that confidence can be reposed in the person as a confidant. Isn’t that right?

audience: Yes.

That organizationally, the information passing over organizational channels and so forth is inviolate — we have to be able to guarantee that, right?

audience: Yes.

–  2 January 1960 Why People Don’t Like You

The greatest overt act in the world is making other people guilty of overt acts. That is the greatest overt act in the world — about which more later. So don’t think at this moment that I’m trying to make you guilty of over acts! The only thing I’m trying to do to you is get you to Clear!  That’s all I’ve got in mind. And that’s why no resistance, no attack for ten years has been able to get anywhere on Dianetics and Scientology. Because basically, as far as the subject is concerned, there was nothing to hide. That’s why we’re still alive.

— Responsibility, 1 January 1960

He has no responsibility on any dynamic for anything. Therefore it’s doesn’t matter what he does, and any stimuli gets any response. And there’s a gold fountain pen lying there and it just leaps of its own accord into his pocket. And there’s a car there with a key in the ignition and obviously key in the ignition means drive the car; he just drives it.

Now look, this fellow got there from punishment. And you in Scientology have been absolutely right: Punishment never got anybody anyplace. He got there because of enforced withholds, and these enforced withholds wound up eventually into putting every action he did on total automatic, and putting every action on total automatic, then there is no such thing as right or wrong or criminal or good or anything else. He becomes an automatic mechanism which just robots through life doing criminal actions. And you’re going to punish this man? You’re going to punish him into being good?

— Overts and Withholds, 1 January 1960

88 responses to “Why case gain is hard to come by in C of M

  1. Brilliant Marty! Cheers to you for these quotes. PRobably 3 of my favorite lectures of all time. I have listened to those so many times. And I remember thinking each time, since I was assigned to listen to them as punishment, isn’t this the OPPOSITE of what LRH is saying here??

    Well just goes to show why so many people are leaving on a daily basis.

    What I don’t get is why more people on their “Basics” listening to these lectures are not just getting up and leaving right then and there?

  2. Kathy Braceland

    SUPERB references Marty!

  3. Great references, Marty. Very, very apropos.

  4. The parallels to what is occurring on planet earth in the present time to what is happening in the CofM is really blowing my mind.
    The church has become the microcosm of the condition of the planet, so that our vision may be even more clear, lessons learned on a deeply personal level could be carried forward in a fit of inspiration and renewed energy?
    It’s sort of amazing… are we positioned just so?
    Wow, it just really seems like that is exactly what’s happening here.
    Something has changed… LRH is being conjured, yep I think so.
    Ha, I can see him winking now.

    I had some doubts about this blog, you can see earlier posts when I was snubbing my nose and stubbing my toes, a**hole over elbows about the incredible mess Scientology had become. Including anything that was being said about the subject, or anyone who was blogging it… the whole ball of yarn.

    Well, I guess Marty and all those coming forward to help and contribute are unraveling that mess… quite a big job I’d say. And it’s all pretty wonderful.
    I am about as cynical as it gets at this point, but you guys are wearing me down, haha.

  5. LFBD F/N items for me Marty!!!!!!

    These are the violations that make Solo Nots so painful now and not only Solo Nots but throughout the whole grade chart.

    I was thinking about this the other day, how all their injustices and spreading people’s sec check data to the broad public, is creating the situation where NOBODY would be willing to talk to another auditor again.

    That’s right, pay for the priviledge to have them use your overts against you and give you overts that you don’t even consider are yours!! That will surely get you to OT, won’t it?? Where do I sign up??


  6. Thank you! Hope that many inside are reading this. The “tough love” attitude in the Church these days make it seem like Scientology doesn’t work. It does work if you intend to help the person in front of you.

  7. “…. that the preclear had to be willing to talk to the auditor. ”

    This is the essence with my rift with the church. It is not safe to talk.

    If I were to communicate this, I would be encouraged to consider it an overt.

    It is not that the books needed cleaning up, or a Golden Age of anything needed to be mocked up, it was already the Golden Age….we needed to stay the course, not become so fanatical.

    Fanaticism, blind adherence, looses the element of differentiation, the basis of analytical thought. This lack allows the undifferentiated reactive thought to predominate.

    I would rather have people temporarily misconceive scientology in their freedom to make their own judgements from the information they have, than have a perfect concensus in a group of blind adherents. The former is easier corrected. The later a recipe for no responsibility robots.

    Case gain come from personal realization of responsibility, not correct thought.

  8. I just want to say that for anyone who has worked at the Int base for any extended period of time, they will know that actually getting onto the cans for an auditing session is a rare thing. If you are so lucky to actually be able to procure someone to audit you (through your position, your org, your rank, or something), then you have a problem.

    Any mention of DM which is not 100% favourable –kiss his feet no matter what he does — is jumped on by C/S and/or auditor.

    In my case I was ordered onto the Truth Rundown one time (never completed), ordered onto lists designed to rectify my assumed inability to “think” correctly as per the Data Series another time, and that is not to mention the PTS Rundown I completed where I was not allowed to include DM as an item (even though he had been the person involved in taunting me and denigrating me immediately before the large accident I had).

    Though you cannot get onto the auditing lines easily, what can be done is getting in for metered interviews.

    DM has pushed in the use of the emeter as an interrogation tool — rather than as one for delivery of auditing — an as a result the cans became terrifying for many.

    My own personal experiences of metered interviews (PDH/plant checks in the middle of the night, introverting interrogations, endless listing of high crimes and criminal acts to “find a read” and so on), left me bewildered and confused. I was restricted to the base at least 4 or 5 times, once for almost a year, based on “information” from these out-tech interviews/torture systems.

    These LRH references are spot on. If it is not safe for a pc or staff member to be able to say the truth about how they feel. they will never be able to make gain.

  9. Great post Marty. Thank you, Thank you!!!

    Keep them coming because LRH speaks of truth and what is exactly happening in the CoM. The old man is directly speaking to DM and exposing crimes. It is crystal clear that DM is oppose to LRH and Scientology.

  10. Beautiful. Just Beautiful!And that absolutely is just the way it is. Thank you! ::sigh::

  11. Tonight, rereading Sarge’s times with LRH and feeling that presence (We have but to read the magnificent quotes above to know the core by which he lived), I rekindled that first moment the tech actually “worked” in my hands as an auditor — it was on the HQS course. And I saw, with just a little piece of tech, this guy in front of me *cognite* see something and *blossom*.

    WOW. I was HOOKED. This was a TOOL that could *do THAT*?!!!

    That was a defining moment in my life. And from all the personal benefits I’ve had in my hours as a pc/OT receiving the auditing tech — the tons of anguish lifted and knots of sorrow/regret/fear/confusion untangled and vistas sprung 360 degrees wide open — I can’t honestly say they are more amazing to me than what I have been able to GIVE with the tech.

    That moment in the HQS course, and the many others — from hours in the chair as an auditor to watching someone spring up upright on the cement after an accident and prattle the postulate (“Accidents will happen”) and line charge from my assist before the paramedics got there — are equally if not more the very spirit of Scientology that I recognized and loved with my soul from that moment in that HQS course.

    A tool that I could really help others with.

    How can I say thank you to Marty and to each of you here for giving that back to me?

    And I think that very thing is really a common bond that ties us. And what does that say about who and what we are? And what a Scientologist is.

  12. …That we so love to see others BLOSSOM.

  13. Theo Sismanides

    Marty, spot on! We had Ignazio here and for the first time after so many years I felt the presence of an auditor who adhered to the Auditor’s Code. I had reverse auditing in the C of M. It sucked… It was alol make wrong, something synthetic.

    The auditing we got from the Independent Auditor was the right type, if I may call it so. It was Standard Tech. The auditor was not compelled to comply to RTC orders “get this guy ‘s withholds”.

    The proof of what you are saying about C of M and the Independent lies in the fact that I feel much better after Independent Auditing AKA Standard Tech Auditing.


  14. Victoria,

    What you say is so sooth.

    I think it’s all part of this internet group process of running the group engram that we’re getting lighter and brighter on this whole thing.


    Once again you da man!

    What you wrote pretty much sums it up.

  15. Hi Victoria
    Yes I’m sure LRH is winking and laughing and saying “finally you kids found yourselves some bootstraps!”

  16. Only the most unaware preclear could believe this anymore:

    ” that the preclear has some security in talking to the auditor that the information will not be falsely used.”

    Whether the preclear admits it to himself or not, he will be more careful talking to the auditor and that is the end of trusting the auditor and the end of case gain.

    I experienced this “being careful” on my last trip to Flag and never went back. I knew then that LRH tech was truly lost at Flag.

  17. There is a story about the earlier life of Buddha. In that life he was the student of a man who told to his students to go and steal for him. Every one of his students went to steal except Buddha. The master asked him “Why don’t you go and steal for your master? Don’t you want to make me happy?” Buddha replied “How can it be that stealing makes someone happy?” The master replied than: “Ah, you are the only one who understood the lesson.”

  18. The scrutiny to which this site is subject makes your overarching mission all the more difficult. With your best interests in mind, can I point out that this post is rather clumsy.

    Cutting and pasting out of context is always a dangerous strategy for building an argument. It becomes especially so when you have taken a couple of hundred words from a series of lectures which total 9 CD’s worth. I note that your sequence of quotes is not even chronological. So, what have you left out and why have you changed the order?

    This is a classic indication that the conclusion to both an inductive and deductive argument has been derived prior to a reasoned consideration of all possible propositions. In other words, the supposed facts have been subsequently and selectively culled so as to best suit the statement that :”case gain is hard to come about within the Church of Miscavige”.

    While I have no doubt that it is a true/valid statement, I point out this weakness to the post not to have a dig or cause offence but, rather, to indicate a structural flaw in the logic. If a dummy like me can see it, so can your opponents, and thus enables further doubt to be cast on the argument and the overall agenda.

    Although it would make for a longer post, I would suggest that each of the quotes from the lectures be put into chronological order and a wider context with a preamble, and a concluding paragraph wrapping it all up into a tidy bundle added. A real-life example would add texture and a reference for readers to confirm everything “fits”.

    Personally, you lost me here:

    Now, any HCA can tell you better than I can — I think the number of the Auditor’s Code is 9, though, isn’t it? Isn’t that it?

    If HRH himself is unclear on specific details in relation to the Auditor’s Code, which he wrote himself, what does that say about any other details in the selected quotes in relation to so vital an aspect of the tech?

    But, yeah, I’m a wog critic so I would say that, eh? ; )

  19. I agree with you completely Marty, I was 10yrs stuck in The Bridge and in personal decay and after following Geir’s personal advice find the best auditor (featured here) and I want to share that I finally complete 2 more steps in my grade chart!!

    OOB (out of band) processing outside CofS works!

  20. martyrathbun09

    Solace, thanks for this. You are not the only one who ate it for naming DM as their PTS item. Actually, there are many.

  21. There is another angle on this I think aswell in that DM wishes to suppress revelation in Scientologists.
    This is covered in HCOB 15 March 1962 “Suppressors”. DM has to inhibit revelation and higher levels as he would otherwise be found out.

  22. It is a common bond indeed. Maybe we can take back some of the respect the tech has lost due to the hijacking.

    The VM’s in Haiti are just generating bad PR. The Haitians are said to be requesting that the Drs. keep the people in the yellow shirts away from them, and the VM’s have also caused confusion by being places they really shouldn’t be, feeding people who were scheduled for sugical procedures etc.

    If the tech were IN would that be happening? Auditors certainly have a vested interest in PR staying in, it makes their job much easier:)

  23. What I’d like to know is where did LRH say that the position of COB is the highest technical post. Must be because when I was auditing in the Flag HGC in ’94-’95 he was bypassing everybody down to the D of P!
    Also, one way he impressed everybody back then was his display of “OT abilities”. For example, he ordered me to take a pc back in session one night. My pc never got audited at night, she was a morning person. When I took her in, she didn’t metab (shocker). When I came back down he was outraged to see me and questioned me. When I mentioned what had happened, his spidey senses told him I was lying to him and therefore it was so. My whole ethics cycle revolved around my alleged CI. This resulted in lower conditions, sec check Pro TRs re-train (very popular at the time) and finally thrown in the Meter Course pilot program. It was around this time also that he decided everybody’s Grades were not flat and that nobody really understood what an F/N was. I did find many quickie Grades while doing FES, but everybody? Talk about generalities! Somebody had to die (McPhearson) for him to finally back off messing with tech to prove he was the man.
    Last week I saw him again after all this years at the opening of the Vegas Org. Tommy Davis introduced him as THE person who’s making sure we all get nothing but 100% Standard Tech. Good thing I have decent TRs…

  24. BLip: And I ask you — if your intentions were honest and pure which you state obliquely as wanting Marty and therefore this blog to continue and grow —

    You should address writing styles directly and privately to him.

    That would be in my mind the polite and mannerly thing to do. Surely your mother taught you better manners.


  25. “If LRH himself is unclear on specific details in relation to the Auditor’s Code, which he wrote himself, what does that say about any other details in the selected quotes in relation to so vital an aspect of the tech?”

    What isnt apparent to you but is well known to anyone who has listened to a lot of LRH lectures is his humorous deliver. To those of us who have listened to him, this is an obvious bit of joking.

    He was an incredibly funny speaker, but warned to examine what he said in light of ones own experience for the truth of it.

    Sadly the literal words are often taken to task by those unfamiliar with the larger context.

  26. And on that same note, Marty’s post may well be a bit of “short hand” for the initiated, rather than a post that is well understood by a less familiar audience.

    But scientology is a subject that one needs an overall conceptual basis in, as well as specific training. At the lower levels basic concepts and technique are easily learnable, and building on that, the more advanced student can sees a coherent and fairly all encompassing whole.

    Sometimes though the forrest is obscured by the trees.

  27. The D/IG came to me in 1996 and asked me to start doing Metered Ethics Interviews on Sea Org staff. I asked what this interview was. I was told that it was pulling out ethics and o/ws from staff on the meter. I said “A danger assessment?”. “No, just putting someone on a meter and pulling withholds.”

    I said I would be glad to do this if I were supplied with an approved check sheet and LRH references that I could High Crime. I was promptly told that the reference is Esto Tape 15 to which I replied: “That’s a qual metered interview. It is not the same thing.”

    Anyhow, the D/IG threatened me to knock off the CI and do the interviews and my response was always: “Give me a checksheet and source materials, otherwise go fish.”

    The reference for these metered ethics interviews is HCOB Illegal Auditing (Pg 217 Vol IX) “Asking for lists of withholds without proper session”.

    There are so may PCs in the Sea Org with unflat chains because of improper sessioning and unflat withholds from not checking who missed it and so forth (Ref LRH Tape The Missed Missed Withhold), along with restimulated false purposes.

    Then on top of all of that, one’s overt gets disseminated wide and far because of what was found in your interview. What a zoo!


  28. Alex, Even on SOLO where there is noone more able to look your transgressions square in the eye and as-is their foundation, unless you think you are likely to get creamed for revealing it or sec-checked on the area again. Really does away with one’s causation and knowingness in the matter.

  29. Rush, Similar story when dm announced the ” Arbitraries Cancelled” revelation and stated roughly “God help the next person who introduces an arbitrary”. With it being pretty obvious he was the person who had introduced the major arbitraries. This was just after the big flap at FSO with the Barnes, who were protesting the 6 month sec check and the MAA told them that dm was the one who was ordering it in. So his major breakthrough was to remove the FPRD procedure. He had to “compromise” as people were falling off the level as they could not afford the lengthier sec check.
    I am sure volumes could be written on his disruption of delivering standard Scn.

  30. BLiP
    Oh my gosh I’m so sorry. I know I shouldn’t rise to the bait but…
    Please direct me to your website – you know – the one that you work hard daily to maintain. The one where you take care to communicate with the many people who trust you and look to you for help and direction. The one where all of our friends can communicate openly with each other in the spirit of friendship and trust. The one that rarely contains random critical harping and unnecessary make-wrong comments (this one being an exception of course).
    I would love to see your contribution and compare your technical precision with Marty’s.
    Awaiting the posting of your link with excited anticipation.

  31. CofM is definitely not safe. We’ve learned its best to keep away, keep your mouth shut, case gain all shut off. I recently told my husband, don’t tell them a thing as anything you say will be used against you for future punishment. Just don’t comment and if you have to lie then lie as that’s what OSAI does constantly for DM. There is no due process via Comm Evs, Board of Reviews, etc, just more punishment, (we lived it).

    The above ref. explains the behaviour of staff/SO and even some public just robotically carrying on the High Crimes of violating LRH Tech and Policy to carry out “DM intention” that is mistakenly taken for LRH Intention. “He got there because of enforced withholds, and these enforced withholds wound up eventually into putting every action he did on total automatic, and putting every action on total automatic, then there is no such thing as right or wrong or criminal or good or anything else. He becomes an automatic mechanism which just robots through life doing criminal actions.”

    Some SO/Staff/Public may have the idea, as I did, that LRH would have to return to put things right. So lets just hang in there as long as we can. So what does DM do to further entrap us into this mindset, build a 7 million dollar home for LRH’s return at Int. Well, what if he doesn’t return right away and is expecting us to wear our hats – he did turn them over after all? And we stand by watching this monster bring down the CofS? There are all actions we can take however small/large to help this independent movement.

  32. PS
    Sigh. Flunk on the bull-bait drill again 😉

  33. Blip,
    Hmm…nevermind that handle, oh yeah, what was it I was going to comment on, ‘a wog critic’, yes, seems to be some sort of class you’ve apparently spoken for. Now, that seems to me to be lacking, albeit able to be discerned as the sarcasm it is, in the ‘exactitude’ for which you are criticizing. So, getting you duckies, or cats, or whatever it is, all in a row and considering benevolently that you have the best of intentions, wouldn’t it better serve those intentions to have said duck/cat things in a row? Which is to say, you are ‘a critic’, yes, maybe a wog, but surely you don’t consider yourself to speak for all ‘critics, wog’ now do ya? Of course not, that would be a generalization/generality, n’est pas? So much less the exactitude you seem to be criticizing.

    I take it that HRH was not a typo?

  34. Virg,
    A lensman after me own ‘eart. Aye, lad, ‘what pray, be the reference? Ah yes, let me read it. Hmmm, doesn’t appear to apply. Ok, what be the reference?’

    Off you go, thanks for stopping by, pick up some nuts there in the bowl on the way out, winter is coming.

  35. there is so much truth in this blog that it is about directing others to get started and look. It truly is like having a daily session. The postings are very well written and I know for me very validating.

  36. Otto,
    Yes indeed, Standard Tech does work. No matter what the particular setting.

  37. Ah Jim, James Joyce is probably turning in his grave at the way you played that tune! Hat off from the deep France!

  38. Flourish,

    I doubt LRH will return — as in in pick up a body and again play this very limited MEST game where you need a body to communicate.

    I truly believe LRH has said and written all he wanted to say and write at this time. By the rate we are going it will take us two lifetimes or more to just duplicate what he has said and written, apply ALL OF IT standardly, really do all the points of KSW and so create a truly clear planet where honest people have rights and are free to be-do-have.

    LRH did his bit. Now it is up to us.

    If we can not enforce KSW after all he has given us why the heck would he bother to come back in order to give us more and “put our Ethics in” so we can get his Tech in.

    Would you come back, having done what LRH did already?

  39. One of the main problem is that Scientology is pushed as being a religion and marketed as it. When Scientologist are attacked nowadays they shout for “Religious Freedom” (you attack my faith, my belief) instead of getting in Comm with the attackers and handle them on it.
    I met so many scientologist that told me it is their belief, Religion and faith and they are promoting it heavily. And so the C.O.S goes the way as any religion did in history. Kings and emperors were using religion to control people to behave. One of the tricks they were using was to say that the rules, morals and orders they have were given to them by god or an angel or other powerful beings. They did that for to be sure the people will obey them. Miscavige does it the same way ( advices from LRH). It’s a very old trick.
    If you ever wondered why LRH dedicated DMSMH to Will Durant, then read the books of him. He explains exactly what religions are and how they are and were used in history to control the behaviour and minds of people.
    It’s very funny to see all those Schools that are, they say, using Scientology tech to raise the Kids. They do not deliver method 1 to their pupils, neither Objectives or other basic tech. Why ? because method 1 Co-audit is a religious service..and should be done at the C.O.S. Hahaha ¨!¨Does wordclearing or Objectives have anything to do with a faith or a belief ?
    In the Usa you can’t even give a reference on admin Tech to an employe, without having to fear he gonna sue you, because you are harrassing him with your Religion.
    So the C.O.S by continously promoting it’s being a religion, restimulates itself on past religions and behaves like any religion did in the past. It became a hard solid reality.
    If you go to a quantum physics scientist and tell him about the factors, he is not interested. If you go to a politician with the 3rd party Law, he thinks its a belief. the purification rundown became a religious exercise and a spiritual process.
    The attitude became more or less in the western world:
    I’m a scientologist, I will not do the dissem Drill on you, you have to accept my religion as there is religious freedom.
    Just for myself, Scientology isn’t a religion, neither philosophy or some orher logy. It’s just Scientology that teaches you how to know and the road to total freedom.
    The main problem of LRH was that he found something totally new and had to describe it in a way that people can understand it. First he tried it with science, but was totally rejected by the establishment, so he said then its a religion so that he had all the freedoms he needed to evolve it further.
    This is my humble opinion. I’m not a good writer but i hope I could communicate what I wanted to say. My dream is that Scientology and it’s tech is used all over the world, in any area where it can help and evolves to that what it really is:
    Scientology knowing how to know and NOTHING ELSE.
    In some centuries the C.O.S will be gone and people will use the Tech as a normal thing in life, the same as other discoveries of great people (Einstein, Pasteur, Voltaire, Newton) are used. No more fights for religious freedoms, but fights for the liberty of the mind and thoughts and the rights for reason and intelligence. Does reason have any right on this planet ?

    Have a good day !


  40. Ya know, Marty. There is no doubt in my mind
    that LRH is alive and well right here on this web
    site. Thank you, VWD. MLV

  41. NCT – why not have a daily session aswell? I’m solo auditing every day and I expect people on my lines to also do so too.

  42. BLiP wrote:
    “With your best interests in mind, can I point out that this post is rather clumsy. ”

    1.1 Cover hostility from Science of Survival, L Ron Hubbard: “Every conceivable mechanism is used in this area of the tone scale to make nullification of others seem valid, to make them stick. Here we have raillery against people who refuse to accept criticism *for their own good*”

    By your own description of yourself, you say you are a “dummy” and a “wog.” Let me guess, you work for David Miscavige’s hijacked religious brand money machine?

  43. martyrathbun09

    LO, Thanks for this. In addition to Durant, Age of Reason by Thomas Paine is instructive. You have come close to describing my goal.

  44. Victoria, I understand and saw that also.

    The good news is there’s no question that respect grows from real results.

    The public outrage and fall out about the bozos of Scientology in the news is a result of other intentionedness, among other things.

    The VM in Haiti are an example. The intention of management in aligning with disasters and causes seems to be getting PR advertising and rakin in more bucks and milking the shrinking members for more money — help becomes second place, the activity is instead a contrived via to support the main thru$$$t.

    Off go these poor mostly well-meaning folks, mandatory issue neon yellow billboard shirts advertising Scientology. Not ministers crosses or collar or plain old appropriate disaster apparel, but yellow shirts emblazoned with screaming big letter photo op ads. Incompletely trained on nonstandard substitute tech. Yaow.

    One VM kid cut himself on a “rusty doctor’s scalpel” and has to be on Aids medication for months. Kelly Preston was hanging over John Travolta’s cockpit window to cram into the photo op (looked strained and very uncomfortable to crane herself in there but feigning a com-posed expression) One of the creepiest things I saw was a story about a little orphan they found wandering alone on the street, and there the child is — pounced on as a photo op! VM dressed the bewildered child in one of those screaming yellow Scientology shirts and snapped pics of him with John Travolta and sent to the press!!

    No…that is the sort of thing that is not sincere and is self-serving and no nice way to say it, predatory.

    What a joy to remember the true purpose and rehab what I experienced when I saw teh results of simple auditing even on the HQS course! And in my life.

    BTW, when I recently opened the box and out came all my course packs and books, I also found *my very first worksheet* of an auditing drill on a doll. Got a little nostalgic for those great days:-)

    We are fortunate now because we have sorted out the web that ensnared Scientology. The public needs the same info by which to make accurate assessments for themselves.

  45. createpeace, thank you for that enlightening viewpoint. But I’d come back to something, not sure what if I were in his shoes. I remember one of the RJ’s he wrote something to the effect that you can go sit up on the moon but it gets awfully lonely up there so better to be involved in the game, maybe someone can post the exact quote. But what game he’s playing, I don’t know, whatever it is, its big.

  46. Lo, Excellent, brilliant , astutely observed and well stated . I concur.

  47. Daer Sam and others — War and Peace posited that a poster yesterday was Bill Yaude – and he disappeared. I was thinking — wow Yaude.

    How far he has come — from declared sp, impersonator of Sea Org members, auditing at Flag without real authority to now — minion for dm.

    I wonder if he and his wife still sell tax shelters?

    Shame — Kathy had the potential to become a real artist. Not a shill.

    Oh well —

    Let’s take bets as to who BLiP might be?


  48. p.s. BLip, Don’t be so hard on yourself by calling yourself names. And I invite you to follow your suggestion, do that, round up the books and various materials and familiarize yourself with chronological and contextual aspects also.

    “Probably the most neglected friend you have is you. And yet every man, before he can be a true friend to the world, must first become a friend to himself.” – L Ron Hubbard

    “When you can be your own best audience and when your applause is the best applause you know of, you’re in good shape.”

  49. You did good Virgil!

    As a result of the last point, these things are not sessions any more in fact. In a session there is the PC & auditor vs. bank.

    In those interrogations/interviews it’s auditor vs. PC and bank, which doesn’t give any good results for anyone. The goal of the PC is to find an FN and and end to it.

  50. Marty, *So Excellent* Big YAY!! What a concept…people actually *utilizing available tools* daily ! Like breathing air. 🙂 and enjoying it. Exponential fun.

  51. Good point CP.

    I think the cost of the Mansion/complex including guest houses, indoor exercise pool, sauna exercise room, huge garages was more like 30M+ instead of 7M. From what I understand, it’s now a Museum, where Tom Cruise stays at as he would be a guest of LRH, if he were around.

    My own opinion is that LRH is around but doing what he wants to do having his own game and not watching around as a spectator as that is too low on the scale of an OT.

  52. Sarge;

    I am in full agreement with you on this! Hoo-Rah!

    ML Virgil

  53. Good ref Ralph.

    Also the one on ‘The Dangerous Auditor’ would apply as well, because this is what the “Golden Age of Tech” is creating.

  54. Freedom Fighter

    “Off you go, thanks for stopping by, pick up some nuts there in the bowl on the way out, winter is coming.”

    LOL!!! I’m going to start carrying a bag of nuts around with me and anytime I encounter one of these guys, I’m going to offer them some. It will be my way of keeping myself light whenever I have one of these guys trying to twist my head off and put it on backwards as they grotesquely alter-is policy to back up their actions.

    Thanks for this, Jim! 🙂

  55. Thought provoking

    I completely agree with you comments on GIVING the tech.

    I have to admit I was a little nervous about delivering some of my first Book 1 sessions. In one, the person was so charged up we had to undercut to pleasure moments. After a single incident she wrote up a full page success in what resulted in a complete shift of viewpoint in life.

    Although I was still nervous, it encouraged me to do more and I found it to be one of the most intimate and fulfilling things I had ever done to help another. Using some of the most introductory tech, I had learned the magic of healing the heart and mind.

    The feeling was quite comparable to some of the huge blowout cogs I have had as a PC.

  56. ♥∞

  57. G. Schutte

    I doubt LRH would want to be involved in our current game. He created the Scientology game for us and now it is up to us to either play it exactly as he laid it out or not.

    The last thing LRH would do is interfer with that self-determinism we all have, since that is what Scientology fundamentals come down to — restoring true self-determinism.

  58. Fellow Traveller

    Sam — flunk for self coaching! Really though, perhaps no flunks at all anywhere on this — power of choice is senior to the game itself. For myself, I admire your gamesmanship!

    Play on!

  59. Sinar,

    I very much agree with you. LRH is around, this blog proves it.

    Where does our urge and courage come from to be here and communicate — here in this forum? It comes from our innermost certainty that we are free beings. Free to BE, to DO, to HAVE. And where does that certainty come from?

    LRH and his teachings.

    If we had not availed ourselves of his tech then we would still be so stuck in the MEST game and the MUST-HAVE of chasing the $$s that we would not even reach for this blog.

    But we are not doing that. We are being here, we are communicating, we are having and sharing spiritual realities — right here and now.

    And we are doing this only because we availed ourselves of the tech LRH gave us and are using it. It is the ONE thing that we have all in common here on this blog.

    So — YES — LRH very much is around and he VERY MUCH is pursuing his own goals and purposes. All one has to do, in order to have that knowingness, is read and listen to the many voices through which LRH communicates on this blog and, for that matter, the many rapid changes this whole planet is undergoing.

    No world war since the start of Dianetics!!

    No restriction of communication now that we have the Internet.

    Communication is the corner stone and most important ingredient to ARC.

    That brings about Understanding.

    ARC equals Understanding equals Theta equals
    true Freedom.

    Be here, do, read, observe and you will see one thing for sure:

    L. Ron Hubbard !!

  60. Fellow Traveller
    Ha ha! Busted! That was funny!
    Thanks for playing

  61. I remember these interviews. You don’t even have to be sessionable. I got one of those with 3 hours sleep. After the interview, all I wanted was to leave the Sea Org which I finally did.

  62. Hey Ralph sounds good to me, SOS.

  63. I feel him too Sarge.
    I don’t think he could be in better company – pirates and bums no – doubt!
    I’m sure as hellfire he wouldn’t want to miss out on this game whatever else he’s got going on. Did you ever see such a mish-mashed assemblage of amazing beings?
    I’m taking a moment to breathe it all in.
    The cream of Planet Earth.

  64. Thought Provoking,
    A couple of years back I was in LA doing step H of the steps of A-E. (Yes, H, I was deadfiled eventually which I think was step J). Anyway, I was talking to a nice young man from OSA and he mentioned the abject terror about quoting LRH data or disseminating in case one violated copyright or trademarks of RTC. I asked him ‘you mean I can’t tell some guy on the bus something without getting in trouble?’

    He looked down at the ground, then up and down the block, sort of checking around to see if we were being watched, and then said ‘yes’ sort of shamefully.

    I pointed out to him the idiocy of this with the fact that the entire movement, the entire thing started from people copying by what ever means they had at that time, the Original Thesis and passing it around. I pointed out the issue How Ron Works, where he was late for supper because he met some guy and audited him. I pointed out that it was completely absurd what he was telling me.

    He looked away.

    That is the fear instilled. Using Scientology is an overt act under DM. Heck, I read the copyright law, yep, just read it, and a case or two that established the statutes and well, hey, I use it every day!

  65. Yep, every day, 2.5 hours at least. LRH did. It’s a very workable idea! Now, if I could just get this FN to quiet down I could get in session…darn there it goes again!! OK, study it is for today.

  66. Yes Sarge, and I’m getting the MLV too 🙂

  67. Ya’ll are probably going to think I’m crazy, but whenever I get really stuck, I feel like I can telepathically ask LRH for help, or a reference and I get one (or sometimes more). It’s always been the exact one I needed, sometimes references I’m not really familiar with. I mean, I don’t put my life on his lines unless it’s really a dire emergency, so it’s only happened about 5 times over the past few years, but it was always amazing how much it handled the thing I needed to handle. It’s hard to believe, I know and I doubt myself sometimes because I think maybe I’m getting comm from… who knows? Anyone, my imagination, etc, but it’s always spot on, totally life changing. I even feel like once I got a session from Ron, and it handled a serious physical condition, where I was having almost continuous seizures. not 100% handled, but got me able to function again. Then again, I don’t feel like he’s “here” in this location. If anyone’s interested, I get that he’s handling a “Big Sit”. I have no idea what it is, but it’s not pretty. I get it’s close to being handled, maybe in a few months to a year. OK, like I said, take it with a grain of salt as I could be tapping into the guy next door for all I know, but the correct telepathic reference debugged my 2-d’s stalled Nots case and got him winning again after many years of bad auditing and losses. Anything’s possible. Here’s another comm I got: He’s only doing what he’s doing because that MUST be handled, and this: he wouldn’t desert his friends, he loves us. He’s going to see this through.
    Boy, I would never in a million years tell anyone that in the old CofS…things are changing.

  68. Thought provoking


    Tragically, I have total R on this guy’s behavior. One of my biggest ruins/overts was that I couldn’t tell anyone about Scientology or that I was a Scientologist unless they walked into the door of the church. Once they walked in, I had no problem and it turned out to be exactly what I was good at. I just couldn’t originate it outside in day to day life.

    I’d been doing some intensive auditing and had been feeling mighty good when I walked into my regular coffee shop and the clerk (someone I’d chatted with socially from time to time) said you’re in a good mood. I said that’s because I’ve been doing Scientology! It was a HUGE win to be able to say that!

    Nowadays, Scientology comes up more and more in the field which makes it easier for someone like me.

  69. Well Jim, to be honest I had my reservations if outside CofS Tech works until I try it, in fact I now discover what Standard Tech really is 😉

  70. Solace said ~~


    Yes, Solace, I could not have said it better. I went through this insanity ~~ hauled out of bed at 1a.m., 2 a.m to be interrogated with PLANT/PDH sec checks which was ridiculous given that I was SO since a teenager.

    DM is deranged. DM makes enemies by the minute. His savage brutality is becoming known as more and more INT base atrocities get revealed.

    I feel a brotherhood with you. I went through it just like you. We probably know each other !

  71. This is unbelievable. Except that, unfortunately, we know that from DM it’s actually totally believable.

    I wonder how many suppressive acts DM committed just in that one incident? He made you guilty of applying standard Scn (the auditor’s code), he tried to get you to break the auditor’s code, he invalidated your abilities as a trained auditor, and he kept you from delivering by forcing you to needlessly retrain. I wonder how many suppressive acts DM has committed during all the years of his reign of terror? (Maybe we should make a list that people can add to for use in the next SP declare written on him.)

    The person who’s making sure we get 100% standard tech . . . right.

  72. Beebercat,

    I don’t think you’re crazy at all. Thanks for telling us that — it’s one of the most interesting accounts of OT phenomena I’ve heard in a while. 🙂

  73. Marty,

    Thanks for the ack. I felt bad after I wrote above post and thought I gonna be attacked for writing such a blasphemy.
    I’m happy to know that I’m not a lonely wolf with my understanding of Scientology. Thank you. You don’t know what it means for me.


    Thank you very much. You made my day. I’m so happy that you got it and my english is improving.

    Have a good day !

  74. I’m not sure how well this will go down here but the whole book 1 program is gross out tech. Running single flow motivators as in Book 1 was forbidden by LRH when triple flows came out in the late 60s.
    Dianetics should only be run full flows per NED issues. Anything else is a disservice to the PC.

  75. Exactly! That issue is on the page before 🙂

  76. Marty deleted my squirrel photo ;-(

  77. I must say that I get occasional ideas when I think of LRH. Some in the “Freezone” have gone overboard on it – one lady said she asked LRH to help her to find the best bargains in her local supermarket! I feel that he is around too but usually treat what I get as a personal communication.

  78. In fact, Sinar, those “sessions” are
    auditor & pc’s bank vs pc !

    Your version would simply be the auditor
    being indifferent to the pc’s need for help
    with his bank. What is occurring is the
    auditor is using the pc’s bank against him.

  79. True it’s a disservice to an extent but running Book I Dns is better than no auditing.

    Also you can run the unrun flows at a later point, preferably before the guy starts Expanded Grades or has int run Quad.

  80. To LO and Marty;
    I am now going to say something heretical for which I may be burned at the stake. I think LRH made a mistake. I think he took a wrong turn when he went down the “Scientology, it’s a religion” path. LRH defined Scientology as a PHILOSOPHY, then went down the “It’s a religion” path.
    If the “religion” aspect were removed and Scientology operated as a non-profit philosophical organization, many of the abuses we now see, could not and would not exist. The organization would have to follow the laws of the land. For starters, staff would have to be paid minimum wage and overtime. And it would sure be a lot harder to threaten someone with loss of their eternity, “Disconnection” as practiced today would be just silly and any Executive could/would be investigated/fired for misconduct.
    The “Religion” restim is very real and I believe counter productive to the aims and goals of Scientology.
    Well, thems my thoughts. If I am off-base, please set me straight.

  81. martyrathbun09

    Lady L, read the entire body of work; I think the issue you’ve raised is academic at best, and uninformed at worst.

  82. My kids have been raised outside the CofS but they use LRH tech every single day, all day, in their real lives. Only very recently have I started to tell them what Scn is. At this point I wouldn’t even be able to separate out what comes naturally and what’s LRH in them.
    It’s in their blood and soul. It’s not their religion.

  83. There was a big push on DMSMH and we sold a whole lotta books and we did have people coming in to get Book One auditing because that’s what was real to them. They realize in reading the book, over all their misunderstoods and everything, that something can be done about it and they call you up and ask for it, just like it’s described in the book.
    If you can audit Book One and be damned good at it, I truly believe you can audit anything! You’ve got to rely on everything but a meter. And it does work like it says in DMSMH. I audited some hundreds of hours of Book One on new people and I’d guess 90% of them stayed on lines at the mission and did further auditing and/or training.
    Later, when I got trained to audit with a meter, it was a piece of cake to identify indicators of my PCs because of it.
    It goes a long way to validate LRH and DMSMH and show how the tech really works (and worked way back then).
    We didn’t try to run their whole case with it or anything…

  84. Rush: OMFG ~ why didn’t he just throw you down on the ground and stomp on you, huh? Did anybody even question this? THAT is incredible and I am glad you communicated it because it’s sooooo bad that it’s hard to even believe. BUT, now you are among many who say the same thing and THAT makes it easier to believe. I’m still shocked at how horrible an auditor could be treated!
    Didn’t someone say auditors are the most valuable beings on the planet?
    You are!

  85. He’s munching on popcorn, enjoying every minute of it, I just know it!

  86. We are all connected. I’m glad.

  87. LoL at my own head-bobbing F/N over here.

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