On Monday night a dear old friend and SO comrade of mine arrived in the Corpus Christi bay area. I put him up at the Best Western Port Aransas Texas. I checked him in under my own name, knowing the blow drill would have dozens of DMbots calling every motel from LA to here and beyond asking for my friend by name. He had ditched the vehicle he left the base in and made his way by circuitous means. Nonetheless, within thirty six hours of arrival, four SO missionaires ambushed my friend before six a.m. on the motel balcony when he went out for a cup of coffee.
Tommy Two Tone lead the charge. He was accompanied by WDC Idle Orgs, Angie Blankenship, and two of DM’s Int Landlord Idle Org construction aces, Bob Wright and Laurance Stumbke. They peppered my guest with unkind thoughts about me and how damaging it would be for him to connect up with me.
My guest managed to juke them, get back into his room to phone me. I threw on some clothes and headed from my home on Ingleside on the Bay. As I pulled my pick up around to head in the right direction, four rental cars blocked the entire road before me. I pulled to the side of the road in front of my home as sixteen doors flew open and people began piling out and approaching my truck. Tom Cruise’s long-time personal assistant, double-hatted as DM’s spy into Cruise’s personal and professional life for fifteen years, Michael Doven lead the charge. Unable to look me in the eye, Doven mumbled “Marty, let’s talk”. As I reached for my video camera to record the event, I suddenly realized why they were there. DM had dispatched those he thought may be able to “impinge” on my friend, and separately sent a team to try to distract me while the “Ace Team” at the motel did their business. So, I got right back in my truck, ignored the stray dogs yapping at my wheels and headed for Port Aransas.
I phoned the Port A police who went to the motel and debriefed my friend, helped him gather his things and stayed with him till my arrival. By the time I arrived, there was not a sign of Tommy and the Shondells.
The police escorted us out of town and back onto my turf. By then there was no sign of the sixteen (there were four people in each of the four cars that assaulted me first thing in the morning). My guest and I then proceeded to the airport to pick up Mike Rinder.
As we arrived at the airport I received a cell phone call from Michael Doven begging me to chat with him. The entire Doven conversation was recorded and the link to it is at the end of this post. I encourage all to listen to the entire conversation. It is very revelatory on a number of levels. Think of the mentality of the individual who pitted Doven as his best shot against me. Think of the mentality of the individual who would send Cruise’s long-time assistant along with Celebrity Center stalwarts Micheal Roberts, Michael and Denice Duff and Chris Smith to “handle” Mike Rinder and I. Consider the mental state of an individual who would send twenty people (including two Freedom Medal winners) half-way across the country in an attempt to commit human trafficking.
At the end of the phone call you will hear me approach Mike Rinder at the arrivals gate. He was being assaulted by some CC punk with a video camera in his face, Chris Smith, Marla Filidei (CCHR spokesperson), Jan Eastgate (CCHR Freedom Medal winner) hollering in each ear. When my friend and I arrived, the two women fled (along with a third unidentified one) the camera boy turned the camera on me while Smith started goading me. You can catch the beginning of that exchange at the tail end of the call with Doven.
Finally, some thoughts from our friend: “Tommy, Angie, Bob, Laurence and anyone else who reads this: I’ve seen a lot of indicators over the years and things that I just could not rationalize, but I did somehow rationalize them and figured out how they were “right” (as it was taboo and guaranteed doom to ever voice my true conclusions while in that group). All my successes in my Sea Org career came from the application of real Scientology and an unshakable faith in my fellow group members. If you ever worked with me on some of my larger projects you will know what I mean. My decision to leave, when I did and how I did was carefully thought out and calmly decided upon and executed. Was it difficult? Damn right it was. Did I have a “good life” up to the last day? Yes, in a materialistic sense. I wasn’t in trouble, I was in good standing and trusted. But I have 8 dynamics and I could no longer support actions that were diametrically opposite to all I learned in the SO and Scientology over the last 34 years. My leaving gave me no personal immediate advantage. Quite the opposite actually. I did it for the 3rd and 4th dynamic. I love people and want to help them. The world out here awaits you, without recrimination and nothing but genuine support of true Scientologists really applying LRH tech. You can change your environment to one that lets you apply what you know to be real Scientology, instead of daily experiencing all four flows of the opposite being enforced. Once you honestly realize that for yourself, your need to continuously rationalize the outpoints you see will vanish.
Rathbun/Doven conversation link: http://www.zshare.net/audio/7552721707c82e2e/
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
As a long time Scientologist and newcomer to this board, I want to commend all who are standing up to and exposing DM. This most certainly takes courage and a great sense of responsibility.
I must say, the “Truth Rundown”, subsequent posts, media attention, and an incredible amount of studying LRH, has answered all of the questions that I couldn’t get answers to through the church.
In fact, it’s to the point now that any Scientologist “caught” asking about, communication about or even thinking about DM’s activities, is labeled a “suppressive person” and banished from what they had fought so long and hard to protect and advance.
And while I too could easily get into DM’s violations of policy, etc., I have decided to use my first post to reiterate a view that has been touched on briefly; and that is DM’s activities appear to be pushing the application of the tech closer to a 7th dynamic activity – rather than creating another 3rd dynamic adversary.
The 7th dynamic perspective may very well be where the tech belongs.
This is not to negate a 3rd dynamic activity of advancing the tech, but as a happenstance, DM’s apparent need for enemies may help to bring a balance back. And for his part in freeing the tech to all mankind, DM might deserve some admiration…
Oh ya… Friday, April 30 is DM’s birthday. Maybe we should start a new “Birthday Game”?
Itsa-fest
Wow!!
Marty, fax those stats in! 🙂
Good work!!!!
Centurion
Your friend sounds to me that he is in a state of confusion. It must hurt a lot to hear him like that. Yet it must strengthens ones deternmination I imagine.
Marty you saying loud and clear”the Church is dead” will resonate through all the realms of the “Ideal Orgs”
I’ll spot you a freebie
“The Church is dead, long live ……………”
fill in what’s on your mind.
Shocking. Twenty people sent to commit human trafficking. That’s exactly what it is, human trafficking. The person wanted to leave, but it isn’t allowed.
Anyone still in, ask yourself: Is THIS what you got into Scientology for?
You and Mr. Rinder did a wonderful thing. You have helped a desperate fellow-human – and there is no honour higher than that. With every pathetic attempt to squash you Little Tommy D, and Even-Littler DM, drive another nail into their shared squalid coffin.
R x
You gotta love Texas and their one party consent laws for recording phone calls. Very Well Done Marty.
The Michael Doven call should be transposed word-for-word. The poor guy had no answers to any point you raised. It was all “er.. well… “In fact as you correctly indicated he was clearly operating on some other-determinism.
“The Church is dead”. This is a bitter-sweet observation. Yes it is, and it is tragic that everything we worked for for decades is all but gone. Yet this horrific gargoyle has been in intensive care for a long time and is beyond recovery. The end is happening far faster than anyone could have imagined a year or two ago. Geir’s conference in Oslo to start creating the future could not be more timely.
wow…Wow…WOW!!! Heart pounding stuff!
Amazing what is unfolding here……!
Well, I listened to the comm and I’m intrigued…it always seems to end up with the CoM person cussing. You were not angry, you were level-headed and kind. Doven wants to stop you, but he’s unwilling to actually approach doing so intelligently. How very interesting. He wanted to open up a comm and wound up being abusive. I find it incredibly interesting that he would also lie and say he hasn’t seen DM in two years. What a load of BS. You’re going to tell me you are sent to Texas to bring someone back and you weren’t told to do so by DM? C’mon! This just shows the skewed reality enlisted by DM and his idiot bots. Good job keeping on track and not letting him hijack the comm. You also told him the truth which he was unable to process. Very interesting indeed.
God Bless America!
Welcome to freedom!
Just Me
Wow. UN-believable.
I don’t know where to start. I know these people. I’m appalled. Appalled.
I do keep thinking, though, that everyone of these people who dm sends out after you, Marty, is going to get “infected” with the truth.
I guess there’s no way of knowing the incubation period for each one, but they will cognite.
By being forced to act against their better judgement in this way, by having to confront you in person, they will also have to confront their own obnosis that you are not what dm is making you out to be. Putting in the A,R and C, even when the initial intent is hostile, can catalyze a change in viewpoint.
I really do believe that communication is the universal solvent, and while Chris Smith, bullbaiting you in that reprehensible manner is not real communication, your phone conversation with Mike was. Now he is reminded of who you really are, and it doesn’t correspond to the image dm has been working so feverishly to create.
Judging by how the out-pr is escalating, dm is obviously scared to the point of being out of control. This is like watching a train wreck.
At what point does a “Sea Org Recovery Team” cross over into false imprisonment, kidnapping, or deprogramming? CoS has railed against deprogrammers, and yet what is an SO Recovery Team doing except attempting to “deprogram” a Scientologist who has escaped and no longer wants to be a part of CoS?
Upon consultation with an expert in DM’s goon squads, it is important to cite the fact that there have only been a few DM Goon Squads of comparable size to the 20 person squad reported yesterday:
1. Mary Sue Hubbard: A 12-17 person goon squad led by DM caved in MSH. She signed over hundreds of millions of dollars in rights she legally owned as LRH’s widow. Jesse Prince was there and posted and posted an affidavit after he blew: http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/400_inheritance.html
just want to clarify that the “Mike” I referred to was Michael Doven.
WOW!…This is a clear, sterling example of how solidly indoctrinated and controlled those “in” are – and how they CAN’T LOOK.
It’s sad.
Marty’s right. The Church is DEAD. It’s been hijacked by a madman.
Boy — am I learning how NOT to take the bait.
Fantastic Marty.
M. Doven sounded like he was about to cry during most of the phone call.
WH
Wow, 34 years in the SO, loves people, sounds like Heber to me.
I cannot even for one second understand why anyone would send Michael Roberts to anything but an IAS event where he could pound on people. What a group this must have been. I knew of Michael Dovan back when he got the job with TC. This whole mess is so unfortunate and the fact that anyone would go along with this crap just tells you how low they think of themselves. Each individual involved has some major soul searching to do.
Just uploaded the dovenfinal.MP3 to wikileaks.org.
Hi Marty, Holy sh**, all hell breaks loose when we left, wish I could of been there for you buddy, but sound like you did just fine!
These guys are doing the job for you like you said, unbelievable!
I hope you and Mosey are OK.
We had a great time during our stay, sorry we missed the fireworks!
Keep practicing your Darts, it might come in handy someday.
Best
Dave (Dart Assassin)
Marty,
Your actions are unmistakeably impinging.
What ever they do (DM bots) don’t let them make you lash out under any circumstance. Their goal will be to push any buttons even if illegal to get you to mis-step. That can’t happen. I’m sure you know this, just wanting to reinforce your knowingness.
Thanks for giving sanctuary.
Bless you man.
Dear Mike, Marty and Friend,
Wow! Wow! Wow! This is the stuff of desperation itself. The Friend must really have some ‘DATA’ for them to be this desperate to get him back. Probably lots of data on the REAL AND CURRENT SCENT at INT. Can’t wait to find out what that is!
Friend, welcome to the world where you can practice real Scientology freely and say what you really think without disastrous repercussions to your life and dynamics. We are so glad that you are safe. Safe from the HOLOCAUST know as INT HEADQUARTERS. I’ve been calling Disconnection our Holocaust, but I realized that was personal and selfish because I was disconnected from my son, who is not in the concentration camp known as INT, which from the stories we’ve heard, is like Hell itself. To paraphrase a quote, ” if you were looking for Hell and found INT, it would certainly suffice.
Hopefully you will find peace, comfort and the truth out here among friends. You have my very best wishes and postulates for building a great New Life.
Marty and Mike, thanks for saving him, whoever he is.
Love always,
Lady Minn
P. S. My son and I are back in comm, as of last Sunday, thanks to help from terminals on this blog. There is hope, after all!
Marty! I listened to the conversation. You are lucid and brilliant, i.e. cogent, aware and compassionate without missing a trick or lie.
By contrast, and even stand alone, Doven is stuttering, stammering,comm-laggy mishmash …presumably of things he’s been told, fed, heard — he sounds conflicted, self-contradictory and hemming&hawing deceptive.
After a minute, Devon’s voice goes up two octaves. And he is *whining*. I’m astonished.
Doven also contradicts himself in the biggest way when he says you were the bad “who” then later (when his voice is 2 octaves higher) “You used to be a fighter! You used to f*ing stand up to make things f*ing better!”
Marty. Thank you for being on post. Thank you for giving me back Scientology! Thank you for being awesomely brilliant and smart and courageous!
You are so spot on. I salute you, Marty Rathbun!
To our friend who escaped the compound: I completely understand your thoughts, thank you for communicating. I appreciate the courage and integrity it took for you to go against the barrage.
The What the Why and the Who:
I love it – at least someone understands Sun Tsu. Thankfully it is not our tiny friend with the bushy tail who is turning 50 tomorrow. I hope he gets some yummy cake.
Witness Black Dianetics in the guise of a ‘comm cycle’ which is in actuality an attempt to run coffee shop auditing style implanting.
Where did Doven learn to do this? Was he drilled on what to say? I think the answer is obvious.
Marty I know you’re a big tough thetan and ‘can take it’ but still feel the need to counterbalance the brutal attempt to smash in your anchor points by letting you know that during my recent visit to you it was overwhelmingly clear the goodness in you and it was beautiful to behold the Schindler of your soul. Thank you for the experience. Truth is truth.
Marty,
Nice job on the phone call. I could hear the uncertainty and the pain in Michael’s voice. My heart goes out to him. His Scientology world is crumbling around him like an ice floe in a spring thaw and he is afraid to find himself adrift. It’s a shattering experience. I know the feeling.
Unfortunately, he’s only getting one side of the story — that the ice floe must be held together no matter what. He doesn’t know that the water is fine and that he should come on in.
I was very saddened to hear that Christopher Smith was part of this clusterf*#ck. I know Christopher. He and his wife have been friends for nearly fifteen-years. He has worked at Gold for many years as a non-SO scriptwriter and I had hoped that, because he was public and not SO, he was somehow insulated from the madness. If it was ever true, it’s certainly not true any longer. Very troubling indeed.
Marty I’m not afraid of you but I think Miscavige is. 🙂
Hey Marty, I respect your viewpoints and personal integrity!!
As LRH stated:
“What is true for you is what you have observed yourself. And when you lose that, you have lost everything. ”
“What is personal integrity? Personal integrity is knowing what you know. What you know is what you know and to have the courage to know and say what you have observed. And that is integrity and there is no other integrity.”
“Of course, we can talk about honor, truth, nobility-all these things as esoteric terms. But I think they would all be covered very well if what we really observed was what we observed, that we took care to observe what we were observing, that we always observed to observe. And not necessarily maintaining a skeptical attitude, a critical attitude or an open mind- not necessarily maintaining these things at all-but certainly maintaining sufficient personal
integrity and sufficient personal belief and confidence in self and courage that we can observe what we observe and say what we
have observed.”
“Nothing in Scientology is true for you unless you have observed it and it is true according to your observation.
That is all.”
LRH. Scientology A New Slant On Life.
Good Job Marty, and I am glad your friend is safe.
Amazing the number and types of personnel they threw at this project.
Marty, you have to realize that the amount of effort against you is directly proportional to the amount of counter intention to DM.
Twenty people against one person was NOT EVEN ENOUGH. Why? Because LRH is no where to be seen in these people. Scientology is GONE! They are applying DM-ology and IT DOESN’T WORK. That’s why a failed mission of 20 to 1! Squirrel missionaire tech!.
ML Virg
Wow. You can feel the desperation….
They keep kicking the cat when they need to change the tire……..
Ping me on the back channel if there is anything you or your friend need. I am here to help, no doubts or reservations.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!
Marty you have nerves of steel!!
The guy you were talking to was comm lagging big time and you know he was operating off of DM orders. The idea that he was trying to play off that he was there on his own help flow is absurd.
The overriding emotion I was getting from them was fear .
He does not get that you ARE HELPING people by handling the SP. He is still PTS and cannot SEE the situation.
WOW, this freaks me out!!
Please watch yourself Marty, these guys seem to be getting desparate.
ARC,
Alex
I am very glad the police were involved! That might slow down any attempted fair gaming.
Goodness, after listening to that phone call, I must wonder, how is Michael Doven showing he is a master of communication? How can HE think that after all the courses, etc, etc, that THIS is being able to communicate? Stammering, hmming and hawing, and swallowing his words, how does this present a person in charge of himself and the world around him?
Thanks for the recording. Isn’t it wonderful that Texas is a one-party consent state for recording such conversations? It bodes well for the future. Heh. 🙂
Paul
It’s kind of sad that we may never hear from Mr. Doven again after this unless he runs LunaMoth’s well defined CDI and ends up on your couch. A “Religious retreat” seems to be headed his way.
Marty,
Tell Michael Doven I’m not disaffected.
I’m in the Org often applying and getting others to apply Scientology as written by LRH not DM.
Doven. Wake up. The Matrix has you.
The Ridiculous 7 obviously failed their mission since none showed up this time. Retrain 3rd Class Mission School, gang, and better luck next time. Anybody thinks I’m joking. I will bet that all 7 of those guys are in deep doo-doo today for the screw up in CW.
Now we have the Tepid Twenty and they’re stinking up the joint too. I wonder if anyone withheld this thought on their Ops and Disagreement Checks, “Man, I’d do anything for a change of scenery.”
I predict a recall within 24 hrs.
Who the hell is DM going to send next? I propose that he switch it up and send some Gold guys: Waldo, Mats Markowicz, Leroy and a few others. Some blue collar guys. Try a lower key, less confrontational approach. Sit around for a couple days, do a little fishing maybe.
I don’t think that would work either, but the missionnaires would at least disconnect and I’d have some more friends back.
A very confused individual. I hope he is able to get himself sorted out.
Astounding. Thanks for protecting the person. Since those who came after him and so many others know his/her identity, can you share it with the blog?
Hi Marty,
Another thing I wanted to add is when the guy on the phone asked you what you wanted to do after getting rid of DM, take over, etc. You could say (and I guess you did) that you don’t want to do anything. Let Scientology handle itself and make itself flourish and prosper. If they can’t then don’t blame it on you. Didn’t they say things were going much better since you and Mike left?
If you and Mike are so unimportant why send 20 goons out to see you all?? Fairly high ranking goons as well, including that dumb ambush by the feaks in Florida on Mike.
Another idea is that maybe you should just cut comm with them altogether. I am sure they will keep pushing you until they can get you to push someone or say something so they can attack you. Why not just steer clear of them and continue your successfull actions?
You are the modern day Martin Luther, reformation is happening!
Alex
Thats it!
HCO Bring Order! Now! to Int Mgt, RTC and OSA responsible for these actions.
Before one of them winds up in hurt or jail. The Church will not survive many more PR Flaps.
HCO PLEASE BRING ORDER!!!
Man, that tone arm is smoking!
Reminds me of the scene in Star Wars where Luke is flying down the canyons of the Death Star while all hell is breaking loose in the control room. Darth Cabbage must be getting his ship ready with some loot to try to escape.
Well Marty,
My respect for you just moved on up a little higher even.
Michael Doven didn’t have any ground to stand on throughout the conversation.
I believe that if you were alone in a room with him for two hours, he would be in tears. Not because you can beat the crap out of him but because you would’ve blown right through his DM valence bullshit with truth and TR’s.
DM sent Michael freakin’ Roberts??? Jeeeeezus!
Another thing: The puppets working for DM don’t seem to realize that if everything was ALL GOOD in the CofM then there would not be anybody who would believe you Marty.
The fact is the CofS will only survive where people get treated properly.
I see one group increasing and another group decreasing. It is all about results isn’t it??
Alex
You know, Marty, I have been reading these posts recently and asking myself: why the hell am I not getting the people I care about out of this? I know I am out. Others?
I have an honest question. I was a happy camper till Truth RD. Until then, I was oblivious to everything. SP media, SP this, SP that. The machinery worked. I was thinking as desired by the Church.
After SP times and my observations and evals, nothing could have kept me in. But before that I was sheep.
Now, I say, how can anyone stay in the Church when they see or hear any of this? How? Are they dumb?
Even worse is that when I look back now, I feel dumb and tricked. How did I stay in despite seeing and knowing outpoints all over even back then? I was reasonable, but I woke up. Everything that happened was enough to wake me up.
How come it is not enough to wake others up????
Just rambling…. Seriously..
W
Sadly Carol, it’s not Heber (I don’t think). Heber joined the SO before I did and I joined in 1972. He and Yvonne were already married (I think).
Hopefully we’ll have news of Heber coming out soon.
WH
Welcome to the new arrival.
DM’s run out of ammo so is now throwing pillows and fuzzy pink house slippers at the SWAT team steadily making their way inside to free the hostages.
Denise Duff and Chris Smith? He’s got the whole Sea Org at his command, OSA, missionaires and he’s down to public Scientologists? Who’s next, the voice of Bart Simpson?
What would LRH have said?
Obviously the ranks of DM-bots are getting thin.
Alex,
How are Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder supposed to “steer clear” of people who show up unannounced conducting ambushes and *ROADBLOCKS* ?
Michael A. Hobson
Laurance Stumbke eh?
Wow!
to your friend :
I´m so happy for your , you decided to go away from the church. You can help more outside than inside and hopefully more will follow soon. Be very welcome in the outer space . If you know somebody in Europe who wants to go out – I have some space here to live.
to Michael Doven
I felt a kind of sorry for you while I listenend your phonecall with Marty. It is what LRH says:
Men is basically good – and you are a good Man.
Please open your eyes and just go away from the church. And you know that you are misused as all the others. And please do not aloud others doing overts on you .
Another thing : I wondered through all the years and it came across also at the phone – can you accept and imagine that I and also others here in the blog , that we are able to think for us self and make our own decicions? From whom do you have the data, we would be stupid?
I know that too many staff as well Scientologists in the field just know better as one self what would be good for one. What is help? What would be help for you? Can you decide what is help for us? Step back and lock in what you are into….. hope to hear from you soon being outside the church …..
When I heard this phonecall it was getting even more real – I only know this from the movies – so many people after somebody. Would not be possible in Germany without getting noticed and is in the press immediatly.
This DM is so chicken-hearted – there is no OT at home .
Lovely TRs Marty and grace under pressure.
What a concept! DM hailed as the man responsible for freeing Scientology for the masses. Ha! It’s twisted and funny and I think I like it.
Oh yes , and Marthy – have no words for this great job. Bravo !
Marty,
I am not a scientologist, but back you 100% in all you are doing and have accomplished. Regardless of what other anon’s say, I am on your side. The insanity of these CULT members ambushing you, Mike and every member that manages to get the hell out is ridiculous. Yes, this has been happening for years, but finally those in the church and out are now seeing how Miscavige runs your religion. While you were not allowed to hear, read or see any of this, people were being hurt, hunted like animals and put behind a spiked fence at GOLD. This is so childish and dangerous at the same time. I wait for the day “dear leader” has not one OSA operative left and that day will come. It’s happening right now. You handled that fool on the phone like a pro just as you have handled all the dwarf’s stunts up to now. It is such a shame all those trapped cannot think for themselves. Michael seems so confused, everything is a script and I don’t feel he even knows what point he is trying to make. Geez, the dwarf has made scientology look like a CULT for brainwashed fools and the word is out everywhere! There’s NO turning back either. There will never ever be a flourishing church until this idiot is taken out. It’s like a broken record every time someone leaves and then of coarse the continual surveillance of you and Mike. On the other hand, it’s very sad to see the army of robots the sociopath dwarf has created. And, like their leader. they are lying, manipulating maniacs!
I read this blog daily and are so happy all of you have found happiness and peace of mind. As long as the “bad” is taken out, I have no problem with your religion. I will keep protesting these CULTS until the “broken” are free and families are reunited. That will be the ultimate ending to this insanity.
And Marty and Mike…keep playing the chess game just as you are, I see a checkmate coming very, very soon…..”dear leader” is no match for you and Mike. He has NO idea what’s coming! I wonder why I can see it and he can’t? LOL
ps both you and Mike look great, (nice to see Mike smile) I’m sure a lot of it is attributed to the wonderful women you both have in your lives…:)
Keep on rockin’ in the FREE world! 🙂
(When the hell is Tom Cruise going to wake up?)
Heber was at AOLA when I was. Started in 1968. He wasn’t yet married as of 1973 though.
I guess we’re all wishing it were Heber but are overjoyed for whoever it turns out to be.
Getting better than a season of 24! Drama, chases, cliffhangers. It’s all there.
You couldn’t write scripts like this.
Mike Hobson,
I see your point. I really meant by that, to not talk to them at all. As much as that is possible.
Everyday, I hear more and more from people from LA to my neck of the woods about how you can’t even SAY or utter an opinion on Scientology that is even remotely against party lines. You get ordered in by an MAA for an interview in which case you promptly receive a rollback and ethics program. If you don’t show you get a Comm Ev for not responding to a request from HCO.
It’s unfunny how the COS is paralleling the actions of the Third Reich. If you look at history it’s amazing just how similar it HAS become. Unfunny because it jeopardizes a valid technology. In the old book, Total Espionage (an LRH recommended one) I believe the author talks about the Japanese “everyone must spy” thing and how that got picked up in Germany. It’s like that now. You have these fanatics you know, the FB Police, I could name some Scientologists but prefer not to pinpoint my position … anyway, you say one thing around any of these fanatics and it gets reported back, and thus starts the “you will bend to the party line or you will be out” hard line approach.
My advice to those in, but not really, and those out. Keep digital recorders and cameras on you AT ALL TIMES. You know, click your digital voice pen in your pocket if you get approached. It’s high time we record ALL of the insanity going on so that the rest of the world has no shred of doubt. Like that article about Mike and the goons who attacked him and barged their way into that doctor’s office. I believe that doctor was quoted as saying that the church people were basically insane and then became well mannered when the police arrived. Well this Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde stuff needs to be recorded and documented.
The more we let the world see these fanatics the more the majority population of the religion – the public – will wake up and decided to collectively “storm the castle.”
And wth was Michael Roberts doing there? I thought he was just regging for the IAS? Is intimidation man or recon man some sort of double hat for regges?
Marty….Michael was hell bent on getting a question answered about “at what point before, just earlier, similar earlier….. knowing when you were helping with certainty, knowing it was working,” etc.
What was he trying to do you think in getting you to find a specific time? He must have asked you 2-3 times to locate the time when…… Was he sent to use this technique to rekindle a purpose, find an MU or what? What was your take? Wonder if he wrote that agenda script on his own or was drilled on it to run on you.
You got in some great shots about Scn being hijacked. Wake up and smell the coffee!! He killed it!
I think each time you talk to these guys sent in on you and Mike backfires and instead what you say back leaves them with LOTS to reconsider about the mess in which they sit.
The fact that they sent out public Scientologists on an Int Base blow drill says it all. It’s the End Times. DM’s got no one left.
I think he’s afraid that if he sent out Guillaume, Greg Wilhere, Norman, Ray or any other key guys they’d just blow too. So he throws some celebs at it.
And what happened to Jenny Linson? Is she “in bad” because of that last debacle?
Dolan says he “volunteered.” What, did they hold a big public briefing at CCLA and announce that an Int Base executive had blown and would anyone like to volunteer to go to Texas?
Wow! The TA is really climbing here! And like water, people at Int and other places WILL find a way out of the trap!
Thank you Marty for all that you do, really! And Mike, it is so great to have you on the front lines as well. It’s a two terminal universe and the two of you together generate a LOT of power!
It was very interesting to listen to that conversation… And it blows me away that public, celebs to boot, are being embroiled by dm in all of this– talk about another massive footbullet! I mean what does he think, that they won’t get a bit enturbulated by all this melodrama?
I have my seat belt on to ride this to a much higher TA before the final blowdown. Because it’s coming!!
As a clarification, Marty used the 34-year number to refer to himself, not to the escapee.
“But I have 8 dynamics and I could no longer support actions that were diametrically opposite to all I learned in the SO and Scientology over the last 34 years.”
Perhaps DM is sending out public and staff because he is afraid of sending someone with more inside knowledge might blow once out there talking with Marty or Mike.
Dear MickSavage,
SLAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!
YOU ACT LIKE A SHREW!
YOU SEND PUBLIC AND ACTORS,
WHO’S COMM IS UNTRUE!
MICHAEL DOVEN IS A BOT,
LIKE THE OTHERS, I’D BET,
BUT THE THING YOU DON’T GET,
IS THAT WE HAVE THE NET!!!
SO WE’RE PUTTIN’ UP SITES,
THAT EXPOSE ALL THE “FIGHTS”,
WHICH GO ON IN YOUR HEAD
AS YOU WORRY, IN BED!
BUT THE DAY, IT WILL COME
WHEN YOU’RE OUT ON YOUR BUMM
AND THE ROBOTS YOU’VE FORGED
WILL NO LONGER BE NUMB!
YOU OUGHTTA TAKE OFF,
YOU OUGHTTA ESCAPE,
TRUTH IS COMIN’ TO TOWN,
IT’S A DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE!
BUT, SINCE YOU ARE NUTS,
AND YOU LOVE KICKING BUTTS,
WE WILL SURELY DEFEAT YOU,
CAUSE YOU AIN’T GOT NO GUTS!
CONFUSE AND DESTROY,
IS YOUR ONLY REAL PLOY,
BUT YOU SHOOT YOUR OWN FOOT,
WHEN YOU USE TOMMY BOY!
SO GET THE HELL OUT,
AND NEVER LOOK BACK,
YOUR FUTURE IS BLEAK,
ON A DEMENTED TIME TRACK!
THE END….
LOL!
“I find it incredibly interesting that he would also lie and say he hasn’t seen DM in two years.”
I think Doven was talking about working for Tom Cruise, not Miscavige.
Itsa fest
Your observation about the application of the tech being pushed to the seventh dynamic is a good one. I can support that.
However, dm is not doing that. His considerable CASE is making it necessary for OTHERS to do that, at quite some cost to themselves, by the way.
So, since I decline to admire dm’s case, I will save my admiration for those who are actually acting like scientologists and who are truly applying the scientology we all discovered, way back before the crazy little interloper.
Deirdre, Marty was quoting the escaped friend; so it is the friend saying it, not Marty.
Oops, correction. It WAS Miscavige that Doven was referring to (the “haven’t worked for him in 2 years” earlier in the recording was referring to Tom Cruise, I believe.)
Any chance Michael Doven and crew was sent by Tom Cruise rather than DM?
Itsa-fest,
I like your ideas very much. I think you’re going to enjoy your new digs and your new friends very much.
Just Me
Mr Webb asked a pertinent question above about the problem of getting his nearest and dearest to move the hell out of dodge or at least to quietly withdraw their support.
There are some excellent websites, but they tend to have stuff that has ridged up the people I have sent. Scientology-cult.com – the name alone kept me away for ages after I’d been been following this blog daily. Friendsoflrh.org has an odd navigation system that can be frustrating. Rediscoverscientology.com has the “Is David Miscavige a crook” poll which immediately put off another friend (he’s a long way from the Int base and pretty much only knows the party line on DM).
It’s possibly that the most easily acceptable package of data would be a booklet with a dozen articles that lay out the violations of policy, the problems with the stats and fund-raising, and the stellar histories of the people objecting to DM’s dictatorship. This could then be distributed by as many of us as possible and hopefully lead to change. I think there is enough information for someone to make up their mind to oppose DM. The problem is getting the information across when, as Scientologists, we have become pretty much inured to the various forms of largely ill-informed and contra-survival criticism and attacks of the past.
I got that he was talking about dm.
Here’s an example of how those inside the church learn to live with cognitive dissonance, as well as lies.
Michael expects people to think that this is just a normal recovery action, “standard operating procedure,” because that’s how it should be done, per policy. He also knows that it isn’t really that way, but he has it completely rationalized that dm SHOULD be madly micromanaging this whole show. He doesn’t expect others to know that’s what’s going on, though, so he operates as if the lie of standardness were true, and is surprised when Marty calls him not having “seen” dm in two years.
Both realities, a standard, per policy recovery cycle and the reality, an exercise in futility, doomed to get into the papers YET AGAIN, exist simultaneously in his universe as correct handles.
Within the church, people are so used to seeing the insane alteration or violation of policy promoted as the correct, STANDARD thing to do that when a dichotemy like this is recognized, it is never spoken of. To point it out is to make yourself a target of written reports, an investigation, or other unpleasantness. It’s perfect double think.
Why would they send celebrities to accost Sea Org who have left? Don’t they have any comprehension that people outside are more likely to know the name and attach a more negative feeling about the action than if it was random people they don’t know? For instance. Denice Duff has been off of soaps for awhile, but her name would still be known if someone posted about the incident on message boards, for instance. Talk about a career flap. What’s next, the Elfmans running after Mike in Clearwater? TC himself?
Great news on your son Lady Minn! Keep communicating.
Lady Minn
That is huge and I am so so so happy for you!!!
lunamoth
“As I reached for my video camera to record the event, I suddenly realized why they were there. DM had dispatched those he thought may be able to “impinge” on my friend, and separately sent a team to try to distract me while the “Ace Team” at the motel did their business. So, I got right back in my truck, ignored the stray dogs yapping at my wheels and headed for Port Aransas.”
Bravo Marty! DM and friends have no chance. They are freaking out and reacting. And you have your TRs in, can think calmly and control the scene.
To DM,
Just want to save you time and Scientologists’ $$. Don’t bother with this type of operation. There is no point. You are not up to it. To quote the film “A Knight’s Tale” You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.”
The reformation is here. A toast to LRH and his true friends.
Geir Isenes Blog site perhaps ?
“Dolan says he “volunteered.” What, did they hold a big public briefing at CCLA and announce that an Int Base executive had blown and would anyone like to volunteer to go to Texas?”
Fantastic as always Jeff! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Duffs too & Michael Roberts????????? Ok. this is getting really bizarre.
So,Michael Roberts is not acting, Denise Duff is not acting, Michael Duff is not out playing his music, and he recently released his first solo cd, and they are being used as reserve guards for the Church now ? Those celebrities are being used to mop up personnel flaps? Geeze, times have really changed! Can you imagine LRH doing something like that? These people are a complete liability to Scientology. They will not read any forums or listen to anyone who is not in complete worship mode agreement and therefore, they cannot even survey the actual statistics of any group to do a doubt formula! There they go banging around Corpus Christi! Being potential trouble sources. Or rather , Actual Trouble Sources???? The guy on the telephone sounded hesitant to say the least? Marty, you have a lot of integrity. What a drag today must have been for you. But it was a cliff hanger for all of us!
Dart Assassin, Great handle. Thanks for giving me the space to guide that puppy in. And thanks for a great time. It is a pleasure to know you.
Just wanted to say hello and welcome to Marty’s new, unnamed for now, guest.
Hope you can feel the theta from all of us. Thank you for all you have done and will do to forward the goals of Scientology and LRH.
This is just amazing: To what depth of desperation has DM sank.
Marty, please contact me. I have inside info on the genus of the Idle Orgs and the Basics
Marty, Just want to let you know that you helped me a lot. For this guy to come out and say that you stopped helping people is so wrong.
Here are my wins since discovering truth on your’s, Steve Hall and Jeff Hawkins sites/blogs.
– I am now back on the Bridge outside the CofM with great wins. (I did not move on the bridge in almost 20 years before that)
– I just bought a house (did not have to give DM all my money)
– I am more aware and also have a brighter outlook on things.
– I am less angry and more understanding.
Btw: I am totally addicted to your blog.
Toby,
There is a learning curve that every new independent goes through. Many of the sites you mention are targeted to those who have a reality on the abuses being perpetrated by DM and his Int management cohorts. Many newcomers are not up to confronting the truth of the matter yet.
I created a site which provides a smoother transition to those who are looking to learn about independent scientology and life outside the church. It has been accessed 28,000 times in the past few months and the articles are identified by the level of confront required to understand the data.
The site is possiblyhelpfuladvice.com and is written to help readers understand what happened to their church.
Readers have commented that it is one of the few sites that help them get acclimated to life outside the church as opposed to trying to enlist them in causes they do not understand yet.
Drop by and read a few articles and see if they address the needs you describe. You are also free to suggest articles for future inclusion.
David St Lawrence [Old Auditor]
possiblyhelpfuladvice.com
workabletechnology.com
Sam,
You and your friend left a wonderful aura around this place – I think in a way you set the stage for what happened in your wake. Thanks.
Marty what was the timeframe of the mentioned anonymous call ?
http://www.fairgamestop.org/downloads/rathbun_anonymous_call.mp3“]fairgamestop.org/downloads/rathbun_anonymous_call.mp3
LM,
Regained ARC between you and your son is very good news. Wonderful news.
This is good news. If you or the new person need help of some kind I might be able to help.
I am currently listening to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures. May I recommend that you listen to the last ten in particular, starting at Lecture 67. Just listening to this lecture (and as well, No 68), I had some considerable case gain. It is like an auditing session from LRH as he describes the state of OT.
This is a wonderful balance to the entheta of Midget Gabbage and his attempt to drive in our collective anchor points.
The PDC lectures are about describing and rehabilitating a thetan’s space and being able to handle energy and objects towards achieving the state of OT.
With the PDCs and The Factors, there is no need to feel uncertain about your ertenity. You have it anyway, it simply a matter of enhancing it up the Tone Scale to 40.0.
Well done on your blog Marty. I’m looking forward to the demise of the CoS in its current incarnation and hope that once the Midget Gabbage has been deposed, that sanity can then prevail in its re-structure and all Scientologists can then come together and set our collective sights on attaining the state of OT and bring order and sanity to a world sorely in need of it.
May the Tech be with you.
Ooops, I sit corrected. I scrolled past that sentence. So someone who got into Scn in 1976 (or late ’75).
What happened to the tough, dedicated, ethical SO members who took the high road and who were so right and so effective in their actions that they didn’t need to give the “SP” the time of day.
It appears the fire engine has long since abandoned its route and its purpose is no longer to put out the fire but now concentrates soley on “Kerr Dogs”.
Sadly, they have become the Kerr Dogs.
“The problem is getting the information across when, as Scientologists, we have become pretty much inured to the various forms of largely ill-informed and contra-survival criticism and attacks of the past.”
The problem is FEAR. Scientologists still in the cult (the church is dead) fear a disruption of their “go on course, study the next Basics level, support the church, donate to the IAS, go up the Bridge, flow power to DM” routine, which if diverted from, could spell a loss of familial and job connections, lost friends, and major change to their uneasy and doomed lives. They fear the orders to sec checking for reading a non-approved Scientology website. They fear the Non-Enturbulation Order that Joe got for saying something negative. They fear being ostracized and having to start all over.
In effect they are like battered wives. Will they ever stand up and confront the demon that is David Miscavige? Will they throw caution to the wind and take real responsibility for the third and fourth (and others) dynamics?
Every day more and more are. They have an opportunity now, thanks to Marty, to belong to a real third dynamic forwarding the real aims of LRH.
The real freedom awaiting those who have yet to do so cannot be described. No longer being under the veiled suppression of Miscavige, that freedom is tremendous. The real friends are out here.
They should give DM a birthday present by refusing to support his sordid game. Put the guy’s ethics in. That is the best birthday present of all.
The way to do that is by speaking up and being accounted for.
Very clever!!! I liked that A LOT 🙂
Further to the PDC lectures. They deal with mockups. I’d like to suggest that all True Scientologists who want to see the end of DM, that for his birthday present, we mock him up in prison clothes, in hand cuffs, standing before a court.
Toby Jugg, has hit the nail on the head. An easy to read factual booklet that can be distributed in hard copy or downloaded and printed individually by independents. Perfect.
“Dolan says he “volunteered.” What, did they hold a big public briefing at CCLA and announce that an Int Base executive had blown and would anyone like to volunteer to go to Texas?”
Outright prolonged laughter on that one! I mean, how ridiculous. I guess when ya start lying you just can’t stop. This is getting so comical it’s like a cartoon or some silly slap stick comedy. Too bad the consequences of their actions aren’t that funny.
Seems like it’s almost over. I talk to the local Scientologists here almost daily and you would think that we are talking about two completely different worlds. Two different universes all together. When looking at the juxtaposition of what the rank and file think is going on versus what is happening at the top of the org board it’s like being in a Twilight Zone episode.
I would love to hear other’s conjectures as to how this might all go down and what the Scientologists (now in the dark) might experience.
Marcy re: Heber in 1973. I arrived on staff at CCLA around fall of ’73 and Yvonne’s last name at the time was indeed Jentzsch. Heber was the (AG) Ass’t Guardian.
After listening to the audio I can only say that Doven sounds like someone totally out of valence, in confusion but masquerading as someone in control. He’s FAR from in control.
When Doven said the Dwarf didn’t order this ambush, that he volunteered, a thought came to me. Who did he volunteer his services to? Had to be DM! Who told him there was even a “situation”? Had to be DM! There’s no way a control freak would let little Tommy D. run this.
In listening to Doven’s pitiful attemts to control the coversation it was very apparent he has no understanding of the help button. None. The boy needs to retrain and not DM-sytle training. That’s what you got on that phone call; DM style training. He can drill all he wants to a wall and still won’t get it. Time for some straight LRH or he’ll never get it.
Pitiful and very disturbing. But take heart, if this is all the Dwarf has left to send out to handle any perceived situations then the end can’t be far off.
Note to Dwarf: Remember that tipping point I keep referring to? It’s happening right before your eyes.
Note to Doven: Time to bail. You sound very stressed. It’s time you were honest with yourself and stop blaming Marty for your condition. I think there’s a scale for that. Hmm. Ask the Dwarf to show you.
Marty ~~
You won this debate hands down.
Sending out a HERD (overwhelm by numbers) ~~ like a pack of coyotes gives a terrible image.
If the Church was run standardly there would not be a need to use Blow Drill to retrieve blows. There would be no blows.
25 thousand ex-So members is a fair estimate which 625 Exits a year from all Orgs, FLB, PAC, Copenhagen, Australia, INT Base and others SO Bases. This number includes blows and route-outs.
The list of Declares is in the Thousands.
The list of Enemies on Enemies List is in the thousands (Media, Pharmaceuticals, groups outside the Church)
The last 25 years of DM create a GPM of US vs THEM. The “them” include the dsiaffecteds he mentioned.
The straightwire of your earlier times quickly followed by the admission that he wanted to STOP you was an embarrassment. Did he think with his fumbling and bumbling he would get a paradigm shift ?
None of this makes sense. Mike Sutter, Hansuilli and Marion Pouw are supposedly the team that handle INT SO blows.
Kerstin at OSA INT handles anything that can reflect on DM and INT base, but all these 4 were invisible.
I wonder WHY ?
Exilo, thank you. You are what this is all about.
Listening to these guys and reading about the ambushes, etc. is like watching a live demo of the reactive mind. They’re a bunch of circuits — demon circuits — running around parroting what they’ve been told instead of LOOKING for themselves. It was so wild to hear M.D. short-circuit at times whenever Marty would query something he said.
Marty and Mike, you have my utmost respect for rising above this crap.
Marty,
You are one tough thetan. Congratulations on being very smart and handling all.
My admiration for you grows each day.
I received an email from one of my oldest friends this morning, (we were 19 when we met) and she was hoping to “handle” me as she had heard that I was now “out”.
She sent me a link to the new Freedom mag, online. Apparently the new product in the Church is RE owned!
David Miscavige: At the Helm of Scientology’s Explosive Growth | http://www.freedommag.org
My email to her said, “You could at least look.”
I sent her two links to your site. 13 reasons and 45 days in the hole.
I did include a quote from LRH at the beginning of my email: “That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.”
And signed it,
Love,
Penny
Her response:
“OTV!!! Truth Revealed I made it, I know. That is all I needed to see. Deeply sorry for you Penny, Goodbye.”
37 years of friendship, gone in 60 seconds. I guess the disconnect policy is still being applied.
Not one question. Not one phone call.
I have not been declared, thus far.
This is a person that is a Patron, minimally.
Cornerstone member.
Extra 100,000. here or there for the IAS….and so forth.
I really empathize with individuals that have had family members do this. When the shit hits the fan and it will (sorry for the crass language) she will probably get back in comm, at which time, I will have open arms.
Wow Marty, sane, calm, level headed, TR’s in, no HE&R, asking the right questions, no stuttering or hesitation, shows a man who knows what the hell he is talking about, honestly, you’d have to be a moron not to know who is in the right. Drama unfolds…..
Marty, I am a Scientologist and also a supporter of yours, but with all respect due, please try to catch more things on camera! How eye-opening would it be to see these things or PIs on Youtube?
The recording is enlightening but why not shell out some cash for a very small video camera and have it with you everywhere?
To you and to everyone else here the things going on may seem like no factual proof of them occurring is necessary. But I’m speaking for a vast range of people when I say more proof would be awesome. And it would only make the independent field larger.
I haven’t cried for joy in … I can’t remember when. But I am today! As I tune in to these events and read everyone’s comments, it is just welling up from the depths of all I truly love.
I feel the sweet relief wings of justice given to the oppressed! There is nothing sweeter than that voice.
Marty and everyone here, you are that voice.
Power to you!!!
Michael Doven and other public on this Mission,
Welcome to the Sea Org. You’ve failed this Mission. I, as MOQ, would suggest that Cramming doesn’t replace hatting. You’ve not done Mission School so possibly you don’t realize that part of Mission Briefing is reading the proper Evaluation that the Mission Orders are based upon. NO Eval NO M.O.s, NO Mission.
Mike, you sound like a really good guy. Stick it out, you’ll get to where we are, us old salts.
Then we’ll ALL move forward and get even better at this whole thing.
The guy you spoke to on the telephone says he hasn’t worked for DM for two years. Is that a confession that the entire time Tom Cruise thought he was working for Tom Cruise, he was actually working for DM until two years ago? If that is true that could be upsetting for Tom Cruise if he did not have a clue.
A toast to L.R.H. and his true friends! That made my eyes water up, just slightly. That was a blow down.
Luna,
Exactly!
“So, since I decline to admire dm’s case, I will save my admiration for those who are actually acting like scientologists and who are truly applying the scientology we all discovered, way back before the crazy little interloper.”
lunamouth, You might want to research “LRH’s” “admiration” in the axioms…;-)
sorry…lunamoth
And what about that little snide comment on, “oh sure, I know you’ve attracted to you all the ‘disaffecteds'”
Oh yeah, all of us suppressive criminals who used to get the stats, be the “go-to” persons for public and execs, kept the team enthusiastic despite the gnawing feeling that what was being done to them was criminal itself-yes! all us ‘disaffecteds’!
What a load of crap!
This guy is going to wake up someday and know that not just the Church, but His Self Determinism is DEAD!
Idle Org,
That was funny!!
As a Class VIII C/S and practicing Scientologist still auditing and C/Sing people to their own personal freedoms outside the CoS, the below quote from your friend, Marty, really struck a cord with me. It is something I can understand and support. Bravo to your friend, as well as to you and Mike and Tom. You’ve my positive postulates.
“I did it for the 3rd and 4th dynamic. I love people and want to help them. The world out here awaits you, without recrimination and nothing but genuine support of true Scientologists really applying LRH tech.”
Hey Marty,
How come the church of scientology isn’t following standard policy and proceading to dig up your crimes and publicly air them?
When a person publicly attacks the church of scientology isn’t it normal church policy to dig up crimes on that person and publicly air them? Why hasn’t the church of scientology not dug up Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinders’ crimes and aired them in the public? Could the reason be that when they committed those crimes, they did it when they were in the church of scientology and for the church of scientology?
“Tommy Two Tone lead the charge. He was accompanied by WDC Idle Orgs, Angie Blankenship, and two of DM’s Int Landlord Idle Org construction aces, Bob Wright and Laurance Stumbke.”
“DM had dispatched those he thought may be able to “impinge” on my friend, and separately sent a team to try to distract me while the “Ace Team” at the motel did their business.”
My suspicion from the above is that Marty’s friend was on Idle Org/Int Landlord/construction lines. Therefore, probably not a name a public would necessarily recognize, but perhaps familiar to those who were at Int.
I don’t know what to say Marty. I might need a word clear on the word “afraid”.
Wow! What an incredible turn of events. Thanks for sharing this with us Marty.
I haven’t read all the comments yet so I don’t know if anybody as brought this up already. I apologize if I’m just rehashing things.
Several points. Micheal Roberts! The Duff’s! Why is DM sending OT celebrities?!!! Could it be that he’s afraid that his SO Bots might flip & blow while on a mission? Could it be the celebrities haven’t witnessed the beatings so they might be harder to flip? Could it be the celebrities haven’t been under as much suppression as the Int base SO members so they might act a bit more rationally & won’t turn the mission into a big circus? DM only hopes, LOL. The joke will be on DM. Now some of the celebrities are on the ground observing how insane & out-tech these little resue “missions” are.
I think these guys (SO, staff & public alike) are being kept on such a state of alertness or should I say franticness that it’s just a matter of time before they all become independants.
Marty I think you impinged big time on this guy you were talking to on the phone. You did an amazing job.
Every time these guys try to stop you or Mike, or any other independants they legitimize you more & more & make you more & more heroes.
I’m cheering for you guys. Keep us updated & let us know if there’s anything we can do to help.
Thanks for your latest report of your encounters with the Miskeys! (Miscavige-monkeys. Of DM they see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil)
I guess they have run out of Int crew to do retrievals. Probably afraid they’ll join up with departed.
You were able to wake up when you found the true data, the majority of people there do not have access to it, you know the few that dared look got seriously punnished. So lack of sleep, constant preassure, little selfsteem. Self doubt is in fact so more prevalent than most think. and intronspection. That is why they don’t wake up
and why you and I did not wake up till Marty and the gang came along. It took them some time to figure it all out too, and they had a lot more data than most everyday SO members do.
Or, I might want to have my intention in that last remark duplicated as it is, and leave it at that.
Penny, sounds like your friend was too invested. I’ve seen this with others. Good for you for being there for your friend – when the time comes.
He was hunting for the prior confusion. Silly gooze does not know the tech of it and was not even asking the right questions. It is very dangerous to engage in this sort of coffee shop auditing, and use eval and inval as he did, loose your TRs etc. Yopu may by pass some charge or give the PC a wrong item and hell hath no fury as an item missed or wrongly indicated.
This is a good example of auditing being used suppressively and NOT for the BENEFIT OF THE PC, which is the ONLY PURPOSE of auditing, even in the case of HCO Confessionals.
The comm, whats wrong with the comm? I’ve felt this for so long. I’ve been this guy. It’s like you cant think for yourself. You’re trapped in this weird valence and you have to talk in circles and say “er.., umm” a lot. Thats why theres so little dissemination going on I think.
This guy knows he’s wrong and the whole thing was insane, but no, he has to push that around to the back of his mind and “get the product”, whatever that is.
I’m not going to be this guy anymore. I’ve been implementing new personal policies over the last year or so. I told my auditor and the ED of my org, no one is going to tell me what I cant read. The “no reading stuff on the internet or you’ll be in ethics trouble” thing always bothered me. Also, there were some reg cycles and other things where I just didnt feel right about it so I didnt go along with it. Since then, I’m probably the most active and winning public at my org. I feel like I snapped out of something and became more myself. I’m not going to abandon my org or “change sides” whatever that would mean, but something is strange with all this. Something is very strange about all this.
If you guys haven’t seen this link yet, check it out, the correlation between the CoS statement and their actions on CNN is contradiction at its worst.
Wow. The dominos keep falling. I feel more and more that we are not alone and truth will prevail in the end.
Incredible music:
Never fails to move me, and frankly helps put perspective on life, living and infinity.
RX
(Not sure if there is a proper way to insert a link)
I’m interested; can someone who knows a bit about where to find these devices, what they are worth etc, do a little hating for us? I’d be willing to pitch in toward a fund to buy these for Marty, Mike, Christy, Dan etc. All the front line people.
The rest of us could buy them individually.
Are there button cameras? or stuff you can have on you at all times and easily start? at the very least a microphone would be good
I just got home and listened to the phone call after reading this blog today.
Are we talking about the same Michael Roberts who used to be on the Baretta TV Show with Robert Blake? That Michael Roberts??
And who Marty is this Michael Doven guy? Was he up at Int or was he just a celebrity handler?
It was no contest by the way. This guy Doven hasn’t got a clue about what is LRH intention at all. You can tell that his heart really wasn’t in it and that he was following orders to come down there.
I find it completely laughable Marty that DM would send down people to “handle” you who had no connection with LRH or LRH intention whatsoever. These people did have a prayer of a chance of handling you.
It shows how desperate DM is becoming and that “the Process is working and getting great TA Action….. repeat the command and keep it going…..”
Im dying to know who it was that blew and caused this much commotion. Guesses at this end are one of the following people: Mike Sutter, Kurt Weiland or Warren McShane.
Good luck and have a good weekend.
Comment of the day in my book Dan!!
I almost spilled my water bottle all over my desk laughing when you mentioned our friends in Gold (Waldo, Mats and Leroy)!!
They would have a MUCH better chance of communicating. I would like to have a few beers with them and laugh about what is going on and help them and our other friends who are still left in Gold! 🙂
Well, I am disaffected. What was done to me was minor and I overcame it and made it up the bridge so I can let that go. What I had to watch my friends go through is another matter. I heard over and over, “But nothing bad happened to you!” Oh yes it did. I was made to watch the missions close down and people that I loved and cared about driven out onto the streets and into caves and lose everything they had ever cared about. I watched people I cared about on staff abused and disappointed. It WAS happening to me because I cared about these people. It really bypasses charge when it happens to someone you care about, as if it were happening to you too. Yes, I am disaffected in that I have no sense of wanting to contribute to sadism and masochism and blind devotion and cultures. I had my own culture before I came into Scientology, I wasn’t looking to replace that. And I am not alone. And no matter what DM attributes it to, he had made MANY enemies. PERSONAL enemies. And we are not the enemies of every Scientologist. And he is passing us off as everybodies enemies and we are only HIS enemies and well, I also consider a few other people devoted to him my enemies because they are OUT TO GET people who are special and valuable and auditors that have more gifts to offer than Jesus Christ! That is UNHOLY on EVERY LEVEL. I will NEVER listen to the judgement of a person who was not in the Sea Org or on staff or invested in some way that mattered to the people on the streets. The fact that they sent public to “handle” Marty Rathbun is a 1.1 degrade in itself. Unless it was meant as a distraction only. YES, I am disaffected. And I got into Scientology as a young teen and I have seen IT ALL. From every angle. Except Int of course. I saw the damage from the streets when two missions closed down in my city, before I even went in the Sea org. I saw it in the Sea org. I saw it on staff. I saw it front of me with DM himself and especially that complete devoted idiot Ray Mithoff! That guy NEVER got his ser facs handled! He has done more damage in the Church than I can say as in charge of tech. This ebtire departure from Scientology standard tech is his lapse in responsibility right up to DM! Who is an unhandled case under his nose! Yes I am disaffected and the Church is LUCKY I care enough about Hubbard not to spread all of what I know so it does not contribute to the damage these low I.Q. unScientologists who have PRed themselves into positions of power to abuse and neglect and degrade Hubbard’s friends have caused. YES I am disaffected you son of bitches, with YOU! And if i wasn’t, I would be contributing to your out ethics and bullshit. I am proud to be disaffected! It is my honor! Our only witholds are holding ourselves back enough to be civilized in the face of your obscene pretense to be Scienbtologists! YES I am disaffected. And that is what has been keeping me sane through your Marie Antoinette adventures with Hubbard’s work and legacy and friends. Right now you are piggy backing on Marty Rathbuns LIFE and our dissafection for attention you confused shallow people in charge of some real estate and money and books. I honestly think Hubbard created a dragnet before he left to keep you out of our lives and all behind the wall where you have been eating one another alive! You don’t get it yet! YOU are the ones that are not free! Go look on Google Earth at your location! Find out where you really are! You are inmates you silly people!
I’ve been silently, but diligently following the collapse of Scientology for 15 years. And here now after all those years comes the end-game.
Truly amazing to watch it finally unfold here!
So it’s clear now that the center will longer hold and a trickle is quickly becoming a flood.
But how does Miscavige go? Will he really hand over the keys to his last loyals and then vanish to Bulgravia with sacks of gold? That’s the specific policy, right?
Hi Penny,
You may lose some friends, but who knows…you may just reconnect with old ones. Some of us in Seattle remember you!
It’s just appalling that any of this has to happen. Well done saving a fellow human being.
And you up at INT have bought this on yourselves by STOPPING people from owning Scientology and using it and spreading it. Get off our backs and give us a license (we will get it anyway) to practice without your greedy internal revenue interference and we will call a truce! You go your way and we will go ours. You are holding us to you like glue and causing all of this. Get out of our way and all your problems with us will be solved! You are standing in our way and that is why you have us as a problem DAAA!
Marty, for your freshly freed friend;
“In what can a person become entrapped? Basically and foremost, he can become
entrapped in ideas. In view of the fact that freedom and ability can be seen to be somewhat
synonymous, then ideas of disability are first and foremost an entrapment. I dare say that
amongst men the incident has occurred that a person has been sitting upon a bare plain in the
total belief that he is entirely entrapped by a fence.”
from Dn55
“A man can be driven and harassed and worked upon by aberrated people about him
until he too conceives shadows to be reality. Should he simply reach out toward them, he
would discover how thin and penetratable they are. His usual course, however, is to retreat
from them and at last find himself in the shadows of bad health, broken dreams and an utter disownment of himself and the physical universe.”
from Self Analysis
Idle Org, I am just singing this now, starting my day, my friend.
So light and so powerful! Nobody can mess with aesthetics, hahaha.
Little slappy deserves all crew singing this to him for his birthday all over the planet.
It’s the humn!! Slappy Birthday to you.
Let’s put the admiration there, through satyre and this little happy birthday song says it all.
Let’s sing this loud today, all of us for Dear Leader, the greatest of all times, the one who saves Scientology all over the world. The one and only, the Englightened among the blind !!! Us poor souls, what would have happened to us without him !
DM I can admire you for how you managed all of this time to fool everybody, you are a great magician or actually a great liar ! Holy smokes !!
Happy Birthday Slappy!
Oh this was low. they always use the family against one.
Marty, I am so glad you started this blog, it’s really auditing the 3rd dynamic.
Talk to the feds! If they raid Gold Base in light of the abuses witnessed by the newly-blown, DM’s reign of terror WILL cease.
O.K. that was good. Excellent investigation. I didn’t want to get petty before but sometimes petty details tell a lot. These women have had full on face lifts botox restiline you name it. The Church must have spent 250,000.00 in makeovers for this. Did anyone else notice?
Hey, Mark,
Yeah, that was meant for a certain category of ex-
Base staff. Like you!
The faces are frozen, all that is moving is eyes and lips, the whole face is frozen with cosmetic surgery. Not bad at all. Just pointing out the Church really went distance.
I am so glad you have Doven on tape.
We should not forget that Doven, Micheal and Dennis Duff are TC’s buddies and also take direct order from TC. I am sure DM has TC to back him up by using those “devoted friends” of his like Duffs and Dovens to join the gang and attack Marty and Mike or anyone who has a lot of inside first hand data about DM and TC.
You see? When DM goes down, he will make sure TC goes down with him.
Now TC being in DM’s valance is making sure those “loyal friends” are also accessory to their crimes! hummm….?
When Doven was working for TC, he was accessory to DM’s pimping and pandering for TC. Why Doven’s wife, the most dedicated long term assistant TC ever had has been fired by TC and silenced in a corner?
Is it because she has tons of first hand data?
Micheal Dove, Micheal Duff and his wife (Dennis) are TC and DM’s poppet and have ZERO integrity. They sacrificed their own family members for DM and TC. These are a great example of GAT New OT8s (DM’s products).
GAT New OT8s= DM Spies
Her husband, Jon Stumbke has been immortalized in Marc Headley’s book, the chapter where Jon and two security guards chased the Cine Department Heads all over the property on motorcycles all night long. Jon has valence issues.
With all due respect, you are trying teach the masters here. I think Marty and Mike are already familiar with surveillence techniques, recording methods and tools and the whole nine yards.
In a war, I would want them on my side.
Brilliant. Hats off. And the truly amazing thing is that your dear “friend” who so very much wanted to “get in comm” with you actually had nothing to say. Oh, except for the inval and eval and the squirrely coffee shop auditing attempt. Wow. What a piece of work. Probably a nice guy who believes he is doing God’s work. Sad really.
LOL!
Imagine that scene! TC jumping out of a bush to try a mission impossible, recovering some Int escapees.
Somehow I can’t picture JT doing the same thing. He would refuse.
So many things to say…
Brilliant job on the phone, Marty. Once again you convey truth, sincerity and honor.
Doven’s voice was highly stressed during the call. Today he’s going to sound like he’s on helium.
Somebody’s graph is going to be in affluence this week. Stat: Number of bodies ganging up on Mike or Marty – has gone from 7 to 20 in one week! Wow! That shows expansion! Target for next week: 50!
Well done!
There is a flood of theta coming in here! More and more theta pouring in from all sides of the world ! It’s not like ten years ago. The tide is turning.
Mark, yeah, I hope it’s Kurt.
google search “spy listening device” or spy camera, etc. there are lots of sights with a lot of interesting stuff. also can be found cheaper on ebay.
To DFB,
If you can’t see what the source of the “something wierd is going on” thing is, then you SHOULD read some more, lots more, like the points Marty makes on this site, or the war stories of the others who have suffered too long at the hands of a megalomaniac and his crooked policies and weird punishment-drive tactics. THINK-for yourself on it.
Then re-read the Article by LRH, Personal Integrity.
If all current Scn’s did this, they would start to come out of the fog!
I hope they do, not because I want to see the demise of the Church I gave so many years to, though that is already unfortunately happening, but because I’d like to see friends and families finally reunited, friends and families that these false labels have torn apart!
I dream someday everyone WILL finally “THINK FOR THEMSELVES”!
After reading this thread and listening to the taped phone call I have a prediction.
You are DM. You’ve just sent Michael Doven out to handle Marty Rathbun, and you have listened to their conversation in which you discovered that Michael failed to control their conversation. What do you do next?
A) Admit you should have deployed someone more persuasive and glib to approach Marty.
B) Alternately do your own dirty work by contacting Marty yourself.
C) Realized that any contact with Marty will likely to be taped and result in a foot bullet. Don’t make contact, period.
D) Blame Michael Doven, scream at him, and toss him in the hole for the foreseeable future.
My jaw pretty much dropped to the floor on reading this account. Michael and Denice Duff?? Michael Roberts??? Michael Doven??? Christopher Smith?? I’ve know these people for ages. What the f-ck.??? And Doven on the phone with you..you mentioning Pomm..who was one of my best friends until last year?? I remember that whole insanity going down with TC’s staff at Flag. Pomm actually said to me in 2008 that “DM is the only one who can change policy” …excuse me…
What are these public thinking? They obviously aren’t. I can’t imagine the “briefing” these guys got before coming out to your place Marty. Must have been of the magnitude of the Portland Crusade. You are soooo powerful that it takes 16 people to take you on? Ya gotta love that…quite the compliment.
“Other than that Mrs. Lincoln…how did you enjoy the play?”
Sherry Many-Katz
Thanks for this incredible update. Doven is actually admitting most of the harassment as he talks. DM is going to declare him for this performance.
Welcome Itsa-fest.
ARC,
Alex
LOL too!!
I was just thinking something like that. Who would believe this could be happening? I guess it is only a big deal to Scientologists.
🙂
Alex
Sam, you described Marty so well! You express what I saw and experienced, too, and also that is a beautiful sentiment you expressed.
I’ve got a lot of time for CCHR, but this is nonsensical. What were Eastgate and Filidei there for? Forgive my ignorance, but CCHR is not an SO entity, no? These guys aren’t SO members, surely? Why would they have been involved in a SO “recovery”? Haven’t they got jobs to do?
Marty I listened to the recording. You kept your TRs and just didn’t accept generalities and inaccuracies. The guy sounded reasonable (no quote unquote) so this is the first kind of sane conversation I have listened to.
If I duplicated well he said what you are doing is not popular and you said “yes, it isn’t”. My mind goes to KSW and what LRH says there for being social and popular.
You did well Marty. Although those guys were 20 this one person did listen and was kind of sane. Now everyone can listen to some real discussion. Your points were very sane and you just gave correct answers. I admire your ability to stay sane. This is a great recording and the tide is turning.
You are putting high order into the scene. Thank you very much from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. You are a true friend.
For Rathburn to say and believe the church is dead is delusional wishful thinking! Even some critics are wakeing up to the facts and say the church will always be around– no one can destroy it –its too big to fail!I thought rathburn had brains but he makes himself look real stupid with a comment like the church is dead! HAHAHA
Penny,
It is interesting to watch. In less than 72 hours my freinds on FB went from 276 to 139, after adding Marty as a friend. There were 5 who actually contacted me directly to find out what is going on. All the others simply cut the comm line because somebody told them that I was now part of a squirrel group. The messages sent around were virulent and basically made it very clear that I was to be taken off their list NOW. It is quite sad how easily someone is allowed to come between two others who have a comm line. They are, no doubt all commiserating about how awful it is that I have gone over to the ‘dark side’. Foolish people. They have no idea.
I know that before too long they will all be rather ashamed of how they acted and it will be repaired. But, I do understand the pressures brought to bear. It is so wonderful to be free of those pressures myself.
I have gained many other friends in the process, so when this is all over and my ‘blind’ friends have returned, I will have expanded many times over!!
That is how it will work.
Eileen
This is all so incredible. If you didn’t have the proof, lunacy in public on this scale would be impossible to believe.
I just pray that the end of the madness will bring freedom and reality to all those still oppressed by DM, and not a Jonestown-style horrific butchery/suicide.
Personally I believe that DM belongs in jail for the rest of his days, along with his very own Goebbels, Little Tommy D.
Hang in there Marty (and all the others)!
I understand it must be hard to be under surveillence from Miscavige and his bots but remember: You are doing the right thing and you are doing some very important things, hopefully writing some history that will be talked about hundreds of years from now. The crimes will be exposed. Just have them leave one by one with good and solid communication and show them the facts and let them look for themselves and they will soon realize.
Also, you’ve got a bunch of REAL Scientologists backing you up on this site and in their minds.
The absolutely most insane thing is that real Scientologists now have to fight both the real SPs and the Church top management. Great.
“The Price of Freedom is the constant willingness to fight back. – There is no other price.” — L. Ron Hubbard
I was reading your entry, Oracle, thinking this is what I wanted to express if I could. Thank’s! It’s wonderfully written. Man!
All the way up to the last few sentences I am with you. What can we do to tear down some of this wall that is building up between the Sea Org members and the independents? Most of them are great people. Remember the description Joe Howard wrote about Cathy Rinder. They make mistakes now, for obvious reasons, but who didn’t make mistakes? On this planet?
Well handled Marty.
You talked to a person who is PTS and thus very weak and EFFECT.
The question is: What will happen when DM is removed from post?
The broad band of Scientologists will not leave the current regime, unless they can see an alternative. They want a stable datum. Is it something you can provide them with?
I don’t feel sorry for Michael Doven at all. Whatever “troubled” years he might have had don’t compare to the anguish that that SO member suffered for years. Michael can’t even understand or see that as his confront of evil is so low.
Yep, the same Michael Roberts.
Now he’s a pimp for the CoM.
Thank you for this link. I’ve never heard this before …
hauntingly beautiful.
Just one more reason I love this board — plenty of new things to experience.
Love you all.
WH
Below are specs for a perfect video camera for the front line folks.
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Personaly I think this talk leaves much to be desired. It was sprung upon an unexpected person and the anon caller was unprepared and must have been suprised he even got to talk to Marty.
Individual anon failed to make a clear distiction between the Chursch of Scientology and thev subjet at severalkpoints in the tape.
DFB,
Well done on your personal integrity. Keep on studying, keep on moving on the Bridge both sides. No need to change ‘sides’. The sides are the Dynamics.
Chris J,
Amazing. I dare say what you are witnessing is the rejuvenation of purpose among many, many Scientologists.
Sheeesh, no clue. Not a one.
Talk about the mafia! I’m dumbfounded. These criminals shouild be in jail.
Really, it seems to me that one of these days assaults like this have to be met with arrest by law enforcement, or the pressing of charges after the event, in order to up the ante on the justice actions against DM and his goons. For this indeed was an assault, it was criminal, and the perpetrators should be dealt with as criminals by the justice system of the country.
But with that said, Marty and Mike, you’re a powerful two man ethics sqad. I hope you’re having a blast! Your morale must be very high with the great products you’re getting. You’re having a major impact. You’re really changing conditions.
Many think the Berlin Wall fell due to enough pressure inside East Germany.
Not entirely true. Hungary – once a large empire, reduced in size during WWI – never lost their independent spirit. Hungarians NEVER accepted the communist regime.
(I should know, my Dad was born in Budapest, took me to visit in 1968 — everyone we spoke to hated the Communists).
In August 1989 Hungary opened its borders to Austria.
13,000 East Germans, on travel visas flooded into Hungary.
It was effectively over for the East German regime and in November a million East Berliners protested and the wall fell.
My heart still aches for my father. While imprisoned IN the Sea Org, I was denied a leave to visit him. He had been hospitalized with a nervous breakdown. 5 months later he took his life.
I walked out of “the friendliest place on earth” 3 months later.
Marty has effectively opened up the borders for those who are in prison at Int.
There will be more.
They will be vocal.
They will NOT forget what dm turned them into. They will not forget the family they were prevented from seeing in their time of need.
AND — Scientology will recover. LRH predicted and warned over and over that the tech could be subverted.
It never will be again.
Once you regain your personal honor — threat of a firing squad can not take it away.
Thank you Marty, Mosey, Mike, Christie, Jim L. Steve –
this growing tsunami fuels my day.
Love,
WH
listen to that phonecal of anon and marty. its a talk that leaves one with many misunderstandings.
Anon is not this anons personal army.
In the Tampa Bay area we have a red hot baseball team. I was reading this article today about my favorite player, 3rd baseman Evan Longoria being a team leader by example.
Marty and Mike are the Independent leaders by example and I think you will agree DM is the motivational speaker…….read on my friends.
“He exemplifies what a professional is, what we all aspire to be,” Kapler said. “He cares about this team. He cares about being a great player. He cares about winning. He brings an energy. He wants to be on the field for every inning of every game. He always wants to be in the lineup, To me, leadership is about walking the walk. It has nothing to do with what you say. There are plenty of people with something to say, but you have to be able to do what you’re talking about consistently. We follow those who take actions. Any motivational speaker could stand up in front of the clubhouse, but that doesn’t make him the leader of a clubhouse.
To Marty´s guest: Your arrival to Texas is the kind of news that makes my heart sing. Hope that us bloggers – misfits and non-conformists from around the globe – make you feel as welcome as your hosts does.
For the past several months I´ve visited Texas daily (from EU) and never have returned home disappointed; I´ve laughed, cried, gotten really pissed and then again enthustiastic in this fine company.
I wish you my best and many uninterrupted moments over a cop of coffee. (How dare those bots..)
Hi Elizabeth. One way it could happen is that through enough of these flaps occurring awareness starts to rise on the inside and DM looses his “ethics presence” with those around him. Eventually they see weakness and feel revulsion and take him out. A comm -ev based on falsifying statistics, misappropriation of funds, etc ensues. He gets declared and off loaded.
Thats one scenario. There certainly are plenty of others. DM takes flight. Criminal complaints filed. An attackee decides not to turn the other cheek, etc.
Marty — please include “Jeff and all the others who have spoken out … and those who contribute to the blogs.”
Don’t forget the Booster Seat for the witness box…
David, I checked out your site and its terriffic. Perfect gradient for those newly out.
I like the Scientology-cult. site very much but the name could scare off those whose disagreements are with managment and not with scientology until they actually read what the site holds. Unfortunately that may never happen due to the name.
THIS
One of the most powerful weapons deployed by Anon in this fight has been cameras – For our own protection, and to give them enough rope to hang themselves.
Who can forget Mark Bunker’s footage of the picket outside his house? It’s evidence in its purest form.
Dart Assassin Dave!
I love it!! Thank you for your visit. We really enjoyed spending time with you guys. Don’t be a stranger.
Love Mosey
Sam,
I completely agree! I loved having you here! Can’t wait for your next visit! Were you able to deliver my little package??
Love Mosey
Your name sounds familiar. We may have met years ago when I lived in Seattle.
I lost long time friends from Seattle in a similar way. I’m not declared either. On the flip side, I gained 10 times more friends than I lost, and I can freely communicate now, which is a welcome change.
My husband and I have been on cloud 9 in terms of our newfound freedom. Our lives are our own once again. Welcome Penny.
Chris!
Great to see you here! (Chris is an AWESOME auditor and C\S plus a fun guy to hang with…he will fit right in with this crowd.)
No one said salvaging a planet had to be double-plus unfun!
Marty,
Well done, with your Arc you reached the guy on the phone and broke through his circuitry. He honestly showed how confused in fact he is.
A little masterpiece about Tr’s.
The more I reflect on this, the realer the insidiousness of this insanity becomes.
Here is a guy that attempts to dry-gulch Marty with 19 other people, and he wants to “inject some sanity” into this scene?
Tell me, what are these “sanity injections” of which you speak? Where can I get some? Can you load them in shells?
So then our “friend” attempts to recover from that gross social faux pas by hitting the old “Help Button”…..WTF? Does he think he is doing a dissem drill? Oh wait, now I remember, Two-Way Comm has been taken out of the GAT lineup……..so he can’t engage in THAT.
So Marty establishes some “R”, and then proceeds to demolish this guys “cred”. (Credibility) This isn’t going well for said guy, so what does he do? He attempts the “holier than thou righteous indignation” act, but fails, as 1) He hasn’t drilled it enough with Tommy; and 2) He can’t reach through the phone to hit Marty to complete the implant sequence.
So Marty rightfully calls him out as an other-determined soulless pissant, and up steps the next bull-bait sequence….
It’s the same “act” that Two-Tone Tommy tries to pull off….the winning valence of Miscavige the Insane. It would be funny if people were not getting hurt…….
I am struggling to come up with an appropriate group process to help salvage these remaining Miscavologists….the closest I can come up with right now is “From where could you communicate with your self?”
I am open to suggestions on that.
Rereading properly I saw Michael Doven being a spy in Tom Cuises household – so if there was some symphatie on my side for him – it is just gone this very minute.
DM Definitions.
Disaffected: The term I use to label and stigmatize anyone who doesn’t absolutely agree with everything I say (and without ANY second thought).
Handle: As in “to handle someone”, the term I use to describe the action of converting anyone, through attempted implants, back to my way of thinking so they once again toe the line and never dream of deviating from my approved thought patterns again.
Jim It would be more productive to point out that one needs to make a distinction between the chiurch and the subject.
It bring more clarity than asigning everybody the condition of “no clue”
Chris you are seeing the Church of Scientology collapse not the subject itself.
Thanks CC….. the bigger question your answer brings to mind is why in the world would he be given the task of trying to find this prior confusion, especially over the phone! And with a guy like Marty who knows his craft well. Even when Marty finally gave him an answer, what did Doven do with it? Nothing…Marty took the conversation completely where he wanted to and in the process gave Doven seeds of factual info that were not challenged. I think they impinged and will be looked at when the guy gets a quiet moment to reflect on what he heard.
It’s an interesting study to observe what different kinds of “fixes” these missionaries are sent in to try, attempting to negate the broadening impact M and M are making in shining the light of truth on DM’s secreted activities.
If one “bright idea” fails, gee what’ll be dreamed up to send in next? DM might soon run out of options…..and then what?
Tory Bezazian Christman, an (old) OTVII and someone who “woke up” after interacting with critics on alt.religion.scientology, cites “The Truman Show” as a perfect description of constantly living with the everyday outpoints one sees in Scientology.
Whether “going through the door” at the end means leaving Scientology or leaving the CoM the metaphor is a good one.
The film The Truman Show and the book 1984 may be key stories for the newly departed.
lunamoth,
All IF is sayin’ is it’s the stuff which is not admired that persists. That’s the ‘bad’ stuff. Sometimes, not all, that which isn’t admired is resisted, then mechanics can come into play and slurp, the space closes and one can have something he doesn’t admire smack up against them.
I also grokked what you said and the idea expressed.
Virg,
Yet another vital technology, Mission Tech, butchered by Mr. Know Best. John Boice’s description in the earlier thread leading up to this is brilliant on this sit.
WH,
I love and admire you, once again.
Your integrity to LRH shines like the brightest star in the sky. Thank you for being there.
ML Virgil
Haydyn, You forgot the What do you drill.
Person expresses opinion fully their own based on their own observations.
What do you do? Inform them ” THAT’S AN ENEMY LINE!”
Chris,
I’m with Tom, great to see you here! I know you are busy delivering too. Good on ya.
Spot on! I’m definitely disaffected!
What Marty (and Mike) need are a pair of 24×7 videographers. Having these events videotaped would be very valuable.
CD,
Look-a-there, putty-tat, there is no ‘everybody’ in my assignment. It would be more productive if Chris went beyond cursory ‘listening’ and upped his game to actual observation: to wit, bought and practiced Self-Analysis as a first step to real understanding of what is going on in Scientology.
Sheesh, you have a clue, right?
Anon,
I think you may recognize WE ARE the ‘Feds’.
Badges? We ain’t got no badges. We don’t need no badges.
We don’t need no stinkin’ license to survive!
jim cherkas , nothing is too big to fail especially when it’s consumed by evil. The CoS in it’s current state “is” failing and very quickly.
Lady L,
‘God’ ain’t got nuttin’ to do with this ploy on DM’s part. Just like he had nuttin’ to do with Torquemada.
Scientology WILL be always bearound.
The Curch is NOT Scientology and Scientology is NOT the Church
SMK,
“Pomm actually said to me in 2008 that “DM is the only one who can change policy””
Well that makes sense because Sue Wilhere, the person who is supposed to approve any issues, has stated that ‘David Miscavige IS Scientology’.
All you need is an 8 lb maul and you can hammer that into your thinking. Or better yet, lay there passively and DM will.
Thanks, Joe. I know. I was just thinking about Donna and Danny Barram. And wondering what John is up to. Him and Gary C. are two people that should NEVER be allowed to do any kind of ethics handlings on anyone. Wouldn’t you agree? And it would be awesome if we got to see Waldo and Mats
Jim
you might want to turn your spell-checker on before you start running around calling people stupid. You might also actually want to duplicate what was said in the first place. Just some friendly advice. Wouldn’t want people around here to start thinking that you’re stupid now would you?
The real mistake was suggesting Marty’s purpose was to destroy Scientology. That was a wrong item and Marty quickly rejected it and threw it back at him – a weaker person would have chewed on it and introverted, become cowed, etc.
His question about a time Marty knew he was helping was based on this prior evaluation of Marty being destructive in present time. The outpoint to that of course is that Marty is doing more for LRH than he ever could be within the cult as it is today.
It was a bad “C/S”, a bad program, and badly executed. To think they flew all the way to Texas and botched it up like this, really shows the state of things in the cult today.
Stefan, the Sea Org Members can only get up to need of change on the awareness scale and walk out the front door. And we can be here for them with a solution when that happens.
The Int Managment is a suppressive group. It cannot be handled as whole and whatever they have got in terms of real estate is unholy mest that stinks of dead bodies. They imprisoned themselves and as people get to where they think their prison sentence has been served they will walk out. Int Managment is nothing but an Internal Revenue Service behind thick prison walls with cells.
The issue and the problem we have is, anything you depend on you become the effect of. We are not Independents as long as we rely on drop offs from the Church lines to survive. Hate to say it but most people will not get out and bring totally green people into the Scientology fold. The bad PR in itself puts people on a withold, my own library is hidden in a closet now. New people are not coming into the established CofS anymore. The mission network was wiped out early on. Independents cannot advertise freely or set up missions. The idea is not to control the Suppressive Group called Int Managment, it is, how do we get this Scientology up and running again and on to the streets and to the people?
Because right now we are being out created by other forces. Luckily, the area of self help is booming. Sylvan Institute, a tutorial service, is nationwide while Applied Scholastics teeters at the brink of extiction. We are being successfully bypassed by others, and that is a good thing.
But until we have a right to practice our beliefs and share them OVERTLY we are being suppressed.
We cannot apply the danger formula and bypass the people in the Church. So the subject falls into the cracks daily.
We have to break these chains, and until we do we are handicapped.
But I am not laying out my ideas about how that is coming to pass on an open forum.
WH, your personal situation is heart-breaking. I’m so sorry for your loss. The fall of the Berlin wall, as you know, is a most potent real instance of the triumph of good over evil, and freedom over tyranny. Obviously, your heritage gives it a special significance to you. I’m sure your Dad is watching and is proud of you for being a part of this movement for freedom and playing your part in toppling the tiny tyrant, David Miscavige.
Jim are you sure you achieved clear? lol
You just get the words, you don’t get the concept he wanted to convey! Well… sorry, what do you think we are fighting here for? For a dead-dead thing. You have to clear it up in your mind.
Any Scientology you use outside of the Church right now successfully is a form of bypass. If you want to get in control of the Scientology do it in your own life. Get trained, read a book at least! They are all over Ebay and Barns and Noble used and out of print. Get your library together while you still can find original books. There are enough good auditors out here right now to handle the flow of PC’s. Contact Marty or Trey or Pierre or Chris or Ralph. Get yourself into the hands of someone who will be there for you to get you up the bridge. You have to REACH again and get someone to grab your hand and pull you up in a one on one relationship. Watching the politics brings some relief but you cannot depend on groups at this time to pull you up. I have been able to get one person recovered and two completely green people on the bridge very recently. One gone clear already. This is how you win from where you are, bypass the formalities you were raised on and pick yourslef up and get over that finish line. Get up throu ot3. If you got tired of trying on Church lines, try again out here, it’s like greased lightening to get up the bridge.
LM
So happy for you. Hope you fully restore any love that was taken away from you both.
Jim Cherkas,
You should look up ‘dead’ on the Tone Scale. It’s MEST, sans theta. Perhaps moribund may be more accurate, perhaps not. Read Back to Life’s description of the death of RTC on Scn-Cult. If you are allowed to that is.
Booya!
Superman just traded his Jack Bauer pyjamas for Marty Rathbun ones!
Meanwhile, it may help to notice that every Sea Org member is PTS and therefore in a condition of liability. And the same condition applies to anyone connected to them, in case you haven’t noticed the recently celebrity public banging around Corpus Christi.
Hi Chris.
Thanks, Jim. I fully duplicated it the first time
it was said.
And thank you for the ack.
Jim, your right. someone looks really , really stupid. And worse. Have a mirror handy? You’ll see who it is.
Hm…I’m genuinely confused on the events you described and respectfully request clarification.
What exactly happened? Did this dude actually escape or was he kidnapped after trying to escape? Or was it all a hoax staged by CoS to set you and Mike up to get at you guys? Thanks if you or anyone here can clarify.
Dear Jeff,
Start with the first paragraph FROM Marty (Failed) Mission Review at the TOP of this page —
Your answers are there.
It’s very clear what happened. Even mentions the person “ditching” his vehicle he left “the base” in.
It’s probably several of the words used that are very familiar to those of us who were IN scn — and not too familiar to those who are protesting (WWP) who were never in.
In any case — welcome.
WH
I found you
http://www.myspace.com/jimcherkas
Marty – ANYtime
Mosey – Will take a couple of days
Veritas – Right back at you on beautiful sentiments, I love reading your blogs.
Jeff,
Unlike slick scripted Hollywood offerings, this is Real Life ™ and has a different set of production values and rules. So just stay tuned….
“And who Marty is this Michael Doven guy? Was he up at Int or was he just a celebrity handler?”
See links on this page for major backround:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/304-celebrity-news/tape-cruise-asst-stalks-int-base-escapee-65972/
Devon’s Photography web site is here:
http://www.michaeldoven.com/
Kill Bill music, awesome!
hi chris, any way I can contact you about getting some auditing? I’m at
rogerparris00@gmail.com
It’s probably too early for this, but a photo of Marty and his new guest, smiling and drinking a hot cup of coffee after his guest got a good night’s sleep (impossible in the SO), would be a great 50th Birthday present for DM today!
That or some other nice little engram for DM to remember his 50th for some time to come! As he rots in prison…
Slappy Birthday!!! Waterloo approaches! 🙂
Beautiful!
Bill (uhh, Dave) hear this as a warning not to mess with Uma (uhh, Marty) ROFL. From the “Kill Bill” movie, Uma kicks ass!
Easy there putty…
I’m very sure.
And someday you may get there too. These sorts of meows will have to be peeled off. Better not pile them on in the meantime.
Speaking of which, are you working on Self Analysis yet?
Marty, I just want to acknowledge you for your confront, your honesty, your trust in us to be so willing to come forward and open the books in front of us. To finally include us. You have an amazing space to be in the midst of this ptsness about you and still be holding a position. I think I speak for all when I say, you are not alone and we are here for you as you have been here for us.
And with each day, as more and more notes get sent around that a FB member has to unfriend this person then that person and now this person…
…more and more people will start to wonder just what the heck is going on and start to look for answers outside the Church.
Abbracadabbra.
Not to break up the love fest or anything, but I gotta ask about what you were saying, Marty, in the second half of the phone call where you claim that the disaffected/Anonymous believe you to be a bigger threat than Miscavige. I feel like there’s no reason to say that, other than tripping up the caller. First, Anon is not monolithic, and second, doesn’t feel threatened by DM or the Church (simply thinks it is wackadoodle and ought to stop defrauding and harming people; or, is empathetic to the threat posed to COS members by the leadership). In as much as you can call Anonymous of one mind, it’s probably just against baseless claims, creepy leaders, and illegality. I think, as someone who, to quote you, has not fish to fry in this, I speak for others when I say, despite possible differences in philosophical orientation, you’re work and efforts are thought well of and watched with anticipation.
But what do I know?
Fight on, brother warrior.
Dear GenuinelyConfused, I’ll take a shot:
1. Dude/dudette blows
2. Goes to see Marty and others
3. CoM sends large delegation (at 6:00 am) to interfere with said blow, 1/4 to person’s hotel, 3/4 to Marty’s place
4. Popo assist unk person to stay safe at hotel til Marty arrives
5. Doven initiates very pathetic phone call to Marty to further attempt challenge to Marty’s actions
6. Marty and unk person pick up Mike at airport
7. Subset of large CoM delegation attempt further interference at airport
8. Dude/dudette blowing is not retrieved by CoM
9. Large delegation probably s**ts pants at thought of reporting their fail to DM, retreats
10. Marty posts audio of Doven phone convo on-line
11. ???
12. Profit!
Am I close guys?
PS welcome to reality Unk Person, enjoy freedom. Can I post a song here? Hope so, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbPZDEx-8-Q&feature=related
Wow Marty!!! You rock!!!
You truly demonstrate what DM is badly missing: LEADERSHIP!!!!!
You are a true leader and whatever you are doing, that’s what you are demonstrating: that YOU CARE. You care for the public, for the fellow sea org member, for the disaffected, for the non scientologists. At one time you even cared for me.
Well, I have to say that unlike many of the other actors in this drama, there is a thing on which you badly defy DM and all others and that is LEADERSHIP.
You defy all others on this because you dont whine, you act. You don’t natter, you care.
My hat off to you. In my view YOU are the inspector general of scientology because you are the one demonstrating leadership.
LRH would be proud of you. 😉
Paolo
So raid the Gold Base.
I think that’s what Anon is trying to say anyway.
Good for you for blowing all that ptsness off your lines so quick! Watch your lines open up now and enjoy the fresh air.
WH, this a great and insightful post. Yours is definitely a story that needs to be told… when you feel the time is right. ~ Steve
Marty, WOW! VWD!
Just listened to the audio (my speakers weren’t working before) recording of the call.
Bl**dy hell.
Mr. Rathbun, you were incredibly calm and tolerant, when you had every reason not to be. And Michael Doven is just plain bizarre – clearly parroting and out of his depth.
Mr. Doven spends the entire call speaking without actually saying anything.
Marty,
You’re definately a bridge over troubled waters.
Cat Daddy
so not cool.
After thinking about this over night, I was wondering if maybe DM’s good buddy Tom Cruise volunteered his friends and his private plane to get them all down to Corpis Christi to help “back up” the COB!!!!
The fact that he is using public Scientologists who are in themselves opinion leaders to many other Scientologists shows DMs desparation.
We all know that people talk to one another. Can you imagine the stories these Public are going to tell to the rest of their family and friends?
More seeds of doubt planted for sure.
Marty,
You’re definately a bridge over troubled waters.
That sounded like Michael Doven was trying to run some squirrel process on Marty over the phone. Seemed a little 1.1 too since he acted like he was Marty’s buddy but then came uptone a little at the end and got angry and said he wanted to “stop” Marty.
The Peace Train is a coming!
Peace Train by Yusuf Islam formerly Cat Stevens.
Sorry wrong vid, I’ll try again. Next is better.
“ouch” I stand corrected Sam. It is just that I recognize much of myself in Jim’s reactions.
Marty,
For me, the answer to the question “are you helping them, current members of SCN.”? I would say absolutely YES. Even if you are only cracking the door to rehabbing Faith, that the correct Tech is being applying correctly somewhere, ’cause lord knows it isn’t in the in the old , now un-familar places.
Oh, and Happy Birthday DM
Anonymous,
Righteous, brother.
David Bisbal and Knaan rock … more!
Just Me
Thank you Steve, Heather and Virg for your kind thoughts.
My hope in sharing my story is helping those still IN get OUT, or those who suffer from whatever hang-overs still persist having been subjected to mind-control from misapplication of scientology and LRH – regain their lives.
So many of us suffer from the failure to fulfill our first dreams of helping mankind through LRH’s tech.
BTW — my “story” gets even better after OT VIII — talk about a 5,000 meter dive into hell … 🙂
Love,
WH
For posterity’s sake (and for those who haven’t been able to listen to the audio) … here is a transcript of the call:
————-
Transcript of phone call between Marty Rathbun and Michael Doven on Wednesday, April 28, 2010:
—-START OF TRANSCRIPT—-
[Sound of birds chirping, footsteps, car door opens/closes, clearing throat, rattling keys, etc.]
[*RING* *RING*]
[phone picks up]
MICHAEL: Hello.
MARTY: Michael.
MICHAEL: Hi.
MARTY: Hi, what’s happening?
MICHAEL: Well, uh, love to chat. Uh, love to chat you up a little bit, and see if I can inject some sanity into this thing.
MARTY: Inject some what?
MICHAEL: Sanity.
MARTY: Into what?
MICHAEL: This whole scene, Marty. This whole … this whole scene, you know?
MARTY: Yeah, well, you know I’m willing to talk to anybody on any subject, my Grade 0 is fully in. Uh, but I don’t think you know me well enough to know the incorrect way to approach me is to have 12 people … or 16 people in 4 cars descend on my place.
MICHAEL: I understand that. I mean you don’t know me well enough to know … I actually understand that.
MARTY: I know .. I know you know. But yet .. but yet you DO it. And that is the frightening thing. I mean there’s this gamemanship, this intimidation stuff, and you’re being a vehicle for it. And I know that you know that it’s not right.
MICHAEL: Yeah, yeah. Well that’s uh … that’s not my gig…you know …
MARTY: I know that Michael.
MICHAEL: … everyone has their agenda. And … and … there are certain … you know there are individuals with passionate feelings about .. you know … communicating with you in different ways. Right? And uh … and uh … you know, although there may be some agreement as to … uh … the desire for that to occur … and/or the uh … you know, the … what they want to communicate … uh … that’s … you know the HOW that takes place … that’s uh … I’m calling you now. I’m calling you now. And uh …
MARTY: Where’s everybody else?
MICHAEL: Well I don’t know everybody else … I’m at McDonalds with … uh … two friends. Uh, I don’t know if you know ’em, Michael and Denise Duff …
MARTY: Who?
MICHAEL: Michael and Denise Duff …
MARTY: Uh huh.
MICHAEL: … and Michael Roberts.
MARTY: Michael Roberts? And uh …
MICHAEL: Yeah.
MARTY: Wow. Who were the other guys in the car with you?
MICHAEL: That’s who was in the car with me.
MARTY: The guy in the back with the blonde hair is Michael Duff?
MICHAEL: Uhhh … this morning … that is a dull morning … No, that’s not … no Michael Duff has black hair.
MARTY: Right, he was in the front seat with the camera.
MICHAEL: Uh yeah … uh yes, but the guy in the backseat’s name … I don’t frankly know.
MARTY: Is it an Int guy?
MICHAEL: Um, I believe … I don’t know.
MARTY: You got a guy in your car you don’t even know Michael.
MICHAEL: Yeah, well there was a car load of individuals, and I didn’t know … have everybody’s name.
MARTY: Ok. I just uh … this is very odd. I like to identify who it is who came to visit me.
MICHAEL: I know, I know that. I understand that. I … I uh … I would have chosen to … uh .. you know … I would have preferred to call … email … then show up. You know? And make an appointment. Something … that would have been more … uh … more uh … more my choice. I’m not going to make less of other people’s choices, but that that would have been what I would have chosen to do. And uh … it’s just a straighter uh … straighter approach … you know?
MARTY: Mmm huh.
MICHAEL: So … so … uh … so there you go. That’s … that’s that.
[Car door opens and closes; sounds of cars driving by.]
MICHAEL: Umm … I just wanted to talk about your … you know, over a number of months … it’s just like … Alright, what’s taking place here? HOW is it taking place? WHY is it taking place? WHAT is taking place? You know, how … how … how we get to this point, to where one who wants help and who wants to help people I know and care about … uh …
MARTY: [while walking] I’m helping people Michael now … this is the wrong button … I’m helping people now like I’ve never helped people before. In fact, I’m doing my job unobstructed like I’ve never been able to do my job before. So I don’t … that paradigm doesn’t really work for me.
MICHAEL: Yeah, but let me ask you a question. At one point, before, just earlier, somewhere earlier, was there a sense of KNOWING you were helping with certainty and KNOWING that it was working, and KNOWING that you were contributing to something good? Was there that point?
[pause]
MARTY: You told Tiziano that I was “the who”. What did you mean by that?
MICHAEL: I told Tiziano that date coincident with the time that I spent with you, or directly after, were the lowest work years of my life.
MARTY: Mmm hmm.
MICHAEL: Now …
MARTY: And you attribute that to me?
MICHAEL: I don’t know where else to look, Marty.
MARTY: [Laugh]
MICHAEL: I can look at myself, I can take responsiblity for my shit, alright …
MARTY: Everything was … everything was hunky-dory until Dave got his talons into Tom [Cruise], and now Tom is a mini-me David Miscavige and that’s your problem.
MICHAEL: Well, I … I … don’t know …
MARTY: And I saw it, and saw it, and I witnessed it and I observed it, and I was completely in a position where I had no obligation or no fish-to-fry with anybody, and I observed it.
[pause]
MICHAEL: Okay. And … and..and..and… uh [unintelligible] … that’s your viewpoint.
MARTY: I mean … it IS my viewpoint.
MICHAEL: Yeah, okay, you’re entitled to that. I … I got that. I … I got that. I uh I don’t work for him. I haven’t for a number of years. I haven’t seen him. I’m not currently … that’s not … I’m not here to represent him, you know? I just have my own … you know, whatever. I got that. But I got the sense back then … did .. you know, you said you didn’t, you weren’t … you had no agenda at the time. You know, and you were just … but, were you helping? Did you help …?
MARTY: To answer … to answer your question … an earlier time when I was helping …?
MICHAEL: Yes.
MARTY: I think when I got Tom’s case straightened out from all the quickie bullshit he got from Ray, Dave and Greg … got his OT IV straightened out, got his OT V done, got him through his divorce, got him his life together … got him to start helping people like he’d never helped before, like Jaime … that was help.
MICHAEL: Okay. Okay. So you had a sense of helping, alright? So at what point did you decide “Okay, now let’s just fucking destroy them all, and destroy everything that I’ve just worked for ….”
MARTY: What are you talking about?
MICHAEL: “… and anybody that’s had any gains.”
MARTY: Where’s this generality coming from? Where’s this generality coming from?
MICHAEL: Well, what do you mean … which generality?
MARTY: Destroy … who am I destroying? Who have I … attempted to destroy? Who have I … I have not attempted to destroy anybody.
MICHAEL: Well, listen …
MARTY: Who have I attempted to destroy? This is Dave’s case you’re running on me.
MICHAEL: No, no, no, no … (unintelligible).
MARTY: Oh this is. This, this, this is. You’re trying to put intentions into me that I have not demonstrated, I have not communicated. Nor have I demonstrated in my actions.
MICHAEL: Well okay, how about this? In terms of your actions, let me just … just ask you … in terms of the numbers of individuals around the planet who you know and have cared for at one point, who have had absolutely wonderful wins and gains, HOW are they being affected by your actions now?
MARTY: Who? Name somebody. Is there a problem with somebody?
[Sounds of interior airport noises in the background.]
MICHAEL: Any, any upstanding current member of Scientology …
MARTY: Yeah …?
MICHAEL: … are you helping them or harming them?
MARTY: I’m helping them. And …
MICHAEL: And HOW is that help?
MARTY: Because they are stalled and they are getting reverse Scientology applied to them. And they are becoming, and doing things against … they’re doing things against their nature, and they’re being requ … [to someone else next to Marty] … hey Peter, how you doin’ my man … you got my marine corps cap on bro …
PETER: [mumbling] Mmm …yeah …
MARTY: … you big time …
PETER: [mumbling] …mmm …mmm…
MARTY: …been a long time we talked …
PETER: [softly] … yeah right …
MARTY: …alright bro, I’ll catch ya. [To Michael] … Umm, reverse Scientology’s bein’ run on all y’all. And the fact …
MICHAEL: Okay … okay …
MARTY: And the fact that you’re having to go out and do things that go against your better judgement, is the proof of it. The fact that you admit you come out down here with 16 people to try to ambush Marty and try to intimidate him somehow … I mean I know you Michael, you know that, you know me better than that. You spent two years with me, man.
MICHAEL: Well … I uh … I’m talking to you now.
MARTY: I know, and I’m talking to you.
MICHAEL: [Softly] I know. [*deep breath*] Here’s the deal Marty. I … you now, the people I run into … and I got that you have attracted to you all the disaffecteds and those who have …
MARTY: That’s not true.
MICHAEL: … bad things not …
MARTY: That’s not true.
MICHAEL: Okay….
MARTY: That’s not true. The disaffecteds … you know the Anonymous people called me … and said I’m a much bigger threat to Miscav … to them than Miscavige will ever be. Because they see the same thing. They see this guy as taking the whole ship down with him, and they’re afraid of me. So the disaffecteds and people that want to attack Scientology, fear me more than they fear David Miscavige.
MICHAEL: Well …
MARTY: So …
MICHAEL: … well what does that mea …? … I don’t know what that means.
MARTY: What it means is that this conver … what it means is that this conversation you’re having with me should be being had with David Miscavige.
MICHAEL: Yeah, but …
MARTY: He’s your problem.
MICHAEL: But I see …
MARTY: He’s your problem.
MICHAEL: I got … I got that you … that that’s your viewpoint. I see … what I see is I’m winning … and doing well … and having wins … and expressing those wins … and sharing them … and pitching in … and joining orgs … and helping … that’s what I’m seeing.
MARTY: Have you read my blog?
MICHAEL: I’ve read parts of it, not everything. I’ve read parts of it.
MARTY: Well, you know, it’s like spike Lee says … judge me by the body of my work, don’t judge me on some individual thing, ok? Read the blog. It’s like we’re … it’s like two ships passing in the night right now. I wear my … I wear my Self in the wide open, and I bare my soul. It’s all there for the whole world to see. And for you to start telling me that I’m doing things to *attack* uh … multiple … even multiple individuals, let alone uh, you know … multitudes of people … it’s just inaccurate.
MICHAEL: Well how are you HELPING all of those of us, including yourself in earlier years … [inintelligible] … put some chance of hope there for people … how is that helping?
MARTY: I don’t know … I don’t know where to begin with you, because it’s all there. Scientology’s been hijacked. It’s been hijacked for the personal aggrandizement of a extremely egotistical person.
MICHAEL: So what are you gonna do, take it back? Or just give it away, or just destroy it? What’s the plan there? Wreck it because it was hijacked? Or make it better?
MARTY: Take it back? What you mean “take it back, destroy, hijack” … no … what I …
MICHAEL: I don’t know, what are you going to do with it?
MARTY: What I’m doing with it is applying it. Applying it as it was intended to be applied. And making it safe for others to do so. You guys gotta wake up and smell the coffee, man. The Church is dead, man.
MICHAEL: That’s not true for me and thousands of others, but if that’s true for that’s true for you, and I’m sorry to hear that.
MARTY: The Church is dead. He killed it. It’s dead.
MICHAEL: [*heavy breath*] That’s … that’s APATHY! That’s FUCKING APATHY! WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU? YOU USED TO BE A FIGHTER, YOU USED TO FUCKING STAND UP TO MAKE THINGS *FUCKING* BETTER!
MARTY: I’m doing that right now, man.
MICHAEL: REALLY?
MARTY: That’s why you need to … that’s why you need to do your homework … instead of just taking orders from DM … and find out who you’re talking to, because you’re talking to a reality point ….
MICHAEL: I haven’t talked to him or seen him in two fucking years!
MARTY: And you’re going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that you’re not following his orders right now … you tell me Tommy Davis uh … commandeered this whole plan and figured out to send 20 people down here?
MICHAEL: I’m telling you I volunteered to come and speak with you because that’s what I wanted.
MARTY: Because we need some straight R on this … I mean if we’re gonna have a talk, let’s talk R, let’s not talk bullshit.
MICHAEL: Okay, I’ll tell you straight, I volunteered to come because I wanted to talk to you.
MARTY: You wanted to *stop* me? Where’s that at, man?
MICHAEL: I wanted to get in comm. And I gotta tell you, you must know by now … that that probably isn’t too popular.
MARTY: Iknow, it’s completely unpopular.
MICHAEL: Yeah.
MARTY: Utterly, I understand that.
MICHAEL: So that tells you where I stand, you know.
MARTY: Shheesh … Michael, you came down with 20 freakin people, please.
MICHAEL: Yeah. Well …
MARTY: I gotta pick somebody up, I’m gonna have to call you back, I’m sorry they’re coming in right now. And I’ve got one of your guys is video-recording me, in the uh .. in the … in the … you wanna tell these guys to back off, or do you wanna …
CHRIS SMITH: Who are you talking to?
MARTY: I’m talking to him.
MICHAEL: They’re not my guys.
CHRIS SMITH: No, I’m talking to you right now. No, I’m actually talking to you right now.
MARTY: I’ve got Chris Smith doing a confrontation with me …
CHRIS SMITH: I’m doing confrontation?
MARTY: And a guys got a video camera in my face …
CHRIS SMITH: Now this is Marty “Destroyer” Rathbun …
MARTY: …so you wanna talk?…
CHRIS SMITH: … being videotaped. Who is it you’re talking to Marty? Who could be more important than us?
MARTY: Here you go …
MICHAEL: Now we’re …
MARTY: (Back into the phone.) I gotta go. I’ll talk to you later.
—–END OF TRANSCRIPT—–
I have two things to say:
1. Marty will succeed. Truth prevails and truth is on his side. That’s why, in every incident, the church comes out with egg on it’s face and Marty (& Mike) smell like roses.
2. I spend way too much time following this blog. I just can’t pull myself away…it’s just too damn good.
…This brings up another thought, however, so really I have 3 things to say but this is my birthday present to DM: I’m visualizing this whole thing that Marty and Mike are doing being developed into an on-going TV reality show. Not sure if it’s possible, but wouldn’t that speed up the process….
Imagine it; millions of viewers all rooting for Marty, the independent field, and the new people getting out. And in contrast, the full-on exposure of DM and his rediculous efforts.
Definition: grant beingness: to let someone else be what he is. Listening to what someone has to say and taking care to understand them, being courteous, refraining from needless criticism, expressing admiration or affinity are examples of the actions of someone who can grant others beingness.
“The ability to assume or to grant beingness is probably the highest of human virtues. It is even more important to be able to permit other people have beingness than to be able oneself to assume it.” LRH
Going up the Bridge increases this ability. Demonstrate it. Thanks.
Jim, your first post and already you sound like a troll.
I know you and this blog won’t put up with your introverting mind spinning crap.
Your officially on notice.
Nobody,
Interesting name.
Anyway, as is evident from the last little bit, the Gold Base is apparently releasing out to us.
Patience is hard in this, believe me I know. But, it’s coming along. You read the Opening Piece, one more has moved on up a little higher.
The ‘raid’ may not be apparent, but it is happening, every single moment.
EBay has the Bloggie for under $140.
Thanks for the info Tom.
As I suspected I suspected, Doven has no ethics presence whatsoever and again confirms once more how desparate DM is getting.
Let’s for a moment pose the hypothetical that Marty and Mike could be “handled”. Their true allegience as we all know is to LRH and LRH’s technology.
They were around for years and years and worked for LRH and knew him. They know what LRH’s intentions were.
So now you send people to handle Marty who were never around LRH, never worked at Int, never knew what LRH was all about?
No chance in hell that will work. They have no reality on what is really going on and are just sheep being led to slaughter.
DM has no one else to send because he systematically got rid of those closest to LRH over the years and the only ones left are prisoners in the SP Hall or completely under DM’s control. Or he is worried that they might leave too.
It’s a sinking ship for sure. Those still on board better man the lifeboast quickly or they will go down with the last Rat left on board down in the bilges.
Alright, I hear you, Oracle.
Now see, I believe that we’re building a ridge between the Sea Org and the independents..
The name calling from the independent side is making me uncomfortable and I don’t see that it is doing any good.
Many of them will possibly be our friends in the future. I say we treat them with some respect and DM will be the only one here selecting the wrong target. You can treat them with respect, can’t you?
What do you say?
WE are building a ridge?
Excuse ME???
We have been offloaded like a virus.
We have been exclused.
We have had “can’t have Scientology” run on us for decades.
I have been the one out here repairing the lines between former Sea Org members and auditors.
We are the ones walled off with barb wire.
We are the ones trespassing if we walk towards the Fort Harrison.
I was a Sea Org member, for years.
I have not suggested anywhere to disrespect or degrade or humiliate Sea Org members.
This is a wierd exchange and I feel like you must be talking to someone else, not me!
Please take your focus off of “sorting me out” on something I am already straight on!
I am not an enemy of or anti Sea Org .
Furthermore Stefan, if you see the ten or fifteen guys known as the International managment team as the entire Sea Org, you are way out of focus!
Oracle, I like that. Yes, you are disaffected. And it’s an honor as it is an honor for me to be declared by those calling themselves Management.
Your advice is good and right. Actually the biggest problem we are facing right now is what is happening in the world around the globe.
The biggest crime of DM is that he managed to turn Scientology into a cult. Whatever the Patrons may believe Scientology is not making it under DM.
There is a world going nuts and the one worlders having no problem now going around and implementing their suppressive agendas overtly.
One world government is happening. We get a taste of it more and more and actually now here in my country just on the eve of 1 st of May we have the IMF to give a “gift” to all people who have worked for so many years to see their low wages being cut even more.
So, be disaffected as much as you want. And send a message to all those PTS guys in there that they are stalling the progress of Scientology around the world.
This is a cult now and too few would join. They are not up to resolving the problems of society as a matter of fact they have condoned war all over the planet.
Never heard of Scientology, its Management or anything ever say anything much less do anything about the war in Iraq or Afganistan. About the Russians fighting with the Chechens. Or even the war in Serbia next to us here.
Not to mention anything about their inability to introduce study tech and make it a stable datum for society.
All this mumbo jumbo and very little expansion. I can see here in Greece just one mission, which was made into an Org with the push of Mgmt. Just one. Nada, nothing else. No expansion.
So, DM has taken a philosophy and turned it into a cult with patrons, money and nice big buildings and loyal citizens.
So keep it up and be disaffected and create some fuss and some trouble.
It’ is amazing to see how Michael Dovin had the guts to do this and he is on OTVI GAT??? he should listen to his own communication, so many comlags, poor guy…. what a pupet.. and for You Marthy you continue raising in my eyes, you really are helping people doing what you are doing …By simple be there and CONFRONT!!! I’m proud of you, thank you for being there for all of us that in one way or anoother have experience some out ethics or out tech….. there is HOPE!!!
Jim David is still there and the Church is not on its knees paying Danages. So no.
What I do have learned is that you and I are not that different.
The second thing I learned is that my upbringing was right and I need to put it into practice more often.
The third thing is that you alsoo have a lot of meows yourself.
Like me you tend to react quickly .
“B) Alternately do your own dirty work by contacting Marty yourself.”
I would wager my bottom dollar this thought has crossed DM’s mind many times. How he must regret not “handling” Marty when he was on the Decks at Flag, at the meeting that never was (ref: Truth Rundown, Marty’s interview)..
But the game has changed dramatically since then, and he knows for sure that Marty is now completely beyond the reach of any amount of intimidation, bribery, threats and coercion. This must drive him totally INSANE – he is so used to people responding in the “appropriate” way to his reverse-scientology mind-f**k techniques that when some one is completely out of reach he is as lost as Paris Hilton in a Nunnery.
Cat Daddy
LOL – sorry for the “ouch” was only meant to be a light slap 😀
Thanks for the ack – I love your spirit.
Cat Daddy,
You should send Jim Cherkas the LRH quote about Scientology not being a religion out of earlier Creation of Human Ability “not a psychotherapy, nor a religion.” “Scientology is a body of knowledge………” You absolutely changed my life with that one!!! It changed how I view Scientology and I still can’t thank you enough for posting it. Perhaps this is a good time to re-post. After that, Scientology became the body of knowledge that was always my conceptual understanding, and it stripped away all the confusions I had with confusing the body of knowledge with The Church, the Organization, LRH, and there is actually a lecture I heard recently where he says Scientology is not the history of the organization or his history. I will try to find the reference and post it here. After your post, I realized that, the body of knowledge is what is important and what people USE, and all this other stuff is extraneous, other than the abuses of the organization confuse people and make them think the body of knowledge is faulty.
Just wanted to share this.
And Cat Daddy, do you have a CAT? I love cats and have lots of them, just wanted to know.
Thanks again, LM
I say do it even before you go up the bridge. It’s a choiche. If you have the ability to look at yourself and you know when you are deliberately are boxing someone in (lol at this figure of speech) you alsoo have the ability to vallidate somebody. If you have tha ability to observe yourself doing that it becomes a choice between the two.
“The ability to assume or to grant beingness is probably the highest of human virtues. It is even more important to be able to permit other people have beingness than to be able oneself to assume it.” LRH
CHRIS SMITH: Who could be more important than us?
From likeable comedian to arrogant pr*ck in one easy step.
Chris, almost anyone is more important than you clowns.
Michael Beautiful DOVEN has destrtoyed his reputation.
which makes sense… he doesn’t want to be a part of this wonderful scene of his wonderful church being ruined.
Ceestr8,
You have a hell of an idea there with the reality TV thing. Hell, even someone making this into our own Indie documentary would be fantastic.
It would go viral in half a second and bring about a much quicker end, once the world saw the daily idiocy, the stalking private eyes, the human trafficking, the split-up families….the stuff of a hollywood blockbuster, actually.
Although I don’t think Cruise’s “United Artists” would produce it any time soon. Paramount would, however….. 🙂
The world would hold thumbscrews to Cruise, Travolta, Alley, Elfman, etc, to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
And then, it’s done! We can move on to the next task…….cleaning up the tech and the field for real.
Thank you Natalie, Lunamoth, Jim Logan, and Sam for your congratulations and best wishes. Natalie, you were the one that told me to keep communicating and I did, and my TR-3 got through, and he finally answered and we have been talking ever since! The support from this blog kept me going, and got me up out of the depths of a very deep misery and apathy, and now I am back in production on my job, and getting products, and feel like I have dynamics and a life again!! It is so wonderful! A GREAT BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE CONTRIBUTORS OF THIS BLOG WHO MADE ME FEEL LIKE SOMEBODY (LOTS OF SOMEBODIES) ACTUALLY CARED ABOUT ME AND MY SON, AND WHOSE ENCOURAGEMENT KEPT ME GOING!!!!!!!
INFINITE GRATITUDE FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY THETAN TO ALL OF YOU. And yes, I am moving on up a whole lot higher!
ML,
LM
Jim, so cool, the “raid” IS happening! Cool, man!
Thanks for the links. Doven’s photography is quite good – notice his clients? Ann Archer (T3’s mom (Tommy Two Tone) etc — almost one for one Scientologists.
He feels his livlihood, therefore his beingness therefore is very LIFE is beholden to these clients.
I say — take the leap Doven — from that exterior viewpoint of Central Park you are so proud of. (to be clear — I’m NOT suggesting that he jump or do something harmful I AM suggesting that he take a leap AWAY from the cocoon of scientology clients.)
You are good – believe in YOURSELF.
WH
I am curious about the statement by Mike’s ex, “every time he broke his wrist”. umm…does that mean it happened more than once, and how did it happen?
Virgil,
“They are applying DM-ology and IT DOESN’T WORK.”
DM-ology, DeMon-ology, What’s the difference?
Neither one of them work! Sorry, I’m just ROLTFLMAO! Thanks for the funny!
“The absolutely most insane thing is that real Scientologists now have to fight both the real SPs and the Church top management.”
Yes, Hubbardianen, what a match!
WH, I salute you and salute the free spirit of Hungarian people. Your words reach my heart because I too feel suffering from missing my 3rd dynamic and helping mankind through LRH’s tech. But whatever didn’t kill us made us stronger. And stronger we are now.
Why was he asked to fish for a prior confusion? If you get in comm with someone and direct them back to a prior confusion and then eval and inval, you stick them in the confusion. No way DM does not know this.
So he probably drilled Michael, who is obviously NOT trained or is a GAT-Can’t-think-with-the -subject-but-can-parrot-it-back “auditor” to locate the point where he (Marty) was doing “well” where a confusion most have driven him to his present activities.
And once his atention is back there, leave him there and stick him to it with eval and inval.
Since this isn’t a session, don’t bother with Auditor’s code. (I have heard that )
Did not work, because Marty does know his stuff and is NOT a parrot.
Michael says he has read some of the blog. I know exactly what he has read, – the edited portions carefully omitting the truth, so as not to enturbulate him “anymore than is necessary”. Only 2 or 3 OSA people would actually read the blog in full, too much truth in it to allow others to read it.
I remember a briefing where I was shown only parts of a letter that made the person writing it seem like a lunatic. The letter was nothing like they represented it, but I couldn’t have known that at the time, nor could Michael know the actual content of the Blog.
So Michael goes to confront a “lunatic” he thinks, who he thinks is trying to destroy the Church.
But I digress, the purpose was to drive Marty into the confusion DM thinks has to exist for Marty to do this, and leave him stuck in it.
If you have ever experienced that, it is maddening. Not to mention the complete reverse of the intended use of the technology.
It is suppresive use of Scientology.
John,
Thank you for this message. It is not only a great quotation, but sage advice that’s appreciated by me and, I’m sure, many others here.
Just Me
W
I believe he was refering to a conversation that was recorded some while ago, and which Cat Daddy posted earlier in this bolg, today4/30, at 2:08pm.
Finally Stefan, No, I cannot treat David Miscavige, Ray Mitoff, or Jenny Linson with any respect. They have been treated with respect for decades, people are only allowed to respond with “Yes Sir” to them everytime some noise emits from their mouths. Do you think they need respect from me Stefan? I had it enforced upon me as a Sea Org member, do you think I need you enforcing it upon me on some internet forum Stefan? There are three others I cannot treat with respect. I will not mention those names here. I treat people with respect when I actually feel respect for them. Otherwise it is a synthetic form of flattery. Not that I have to harm attack or suppress anyone who I am not on the same page with. That list was way too short for me and I have my own items. There are only three people still in the Sea Org that I knew and respected. The rest of us were just mates. Everyone else I knew and respected in the Sea org, is out of the Sea Org. So there are my respect issues, since this is an issue for you.
Nobody is an Asshole!
To windhorse and Tom:
Thanks for being patient [and constructively critical, 😉 ] with someone who didn’t sleep much after a long drive. I just skimmed through the blog entry and ended up missing the important parts entirely.
Now after actually reading it, lol, I’m very glad to hear another managed to escape and very glad the police intervened when called. Hope this escapee stays safe.
Isn’t it great? IMHO even better with Bisbal and the additional Spanish lyrics than Knaan’s original, which was already very good. It’s just so positive and upbeat.
For a little background on things got this far off the rails here are a couple of new articles from ex-RTC staff who worked under DM for years: http://www.scientology-cult.com/
Awfully revealing and definitely disturbing. I worked in both CMO Int and Gold for 27 years and I did not know this stuff was going on. DM operates on a strict “need to know” basis, I guess.
I broke my wrist once, playing football with Bill Robertson and a bunch of other people, in about 1978. Cathy got caught up in the implanted line “I knew every square inch of his body” and the circuits got tangled into “every time he broke his wrist” (BTW — havent broken anything else either). Mike
Margaret, what a gem for the foreigners amongst us!! Thank you VERY MUCH!!
And Marty – textbook – thank YOU!
Bullseye! LOL!
Quite apart from Marty being his usual self assured and incredibly competent self, this sounds exactly what it is — a member of an apathetic, dying organization, driven down by tyrannical Dave at the helm, against a notable in the vibrant, high on the group tone scale, near cooperative state of the Independents.
Marty knows he and Mike have each other’s back not to mention a host of other, don’t have to be asked a second time, people willing to step up to the plate.
It really is sling shots against space ships and it’s beginning to accelerate faster than even I had hoped, the speed aided of course by Dave “foot bullet” Miscavige, himself.
Wouldn’t surprise me if old Dave is filling out his Venezuelan citizenship application form right about now.
Thanks Margaret, I had missed some things by Michael because he was on the other side of the phone and now it is totally clear. I even understood what he meant by “that probably isn’t too popular”, which I had misduplicated before. Thanks a lot.
Laurissa Stuckenbrock is that you ? Don’t you Nobody’s Idea to raid Gold ?
Yes, exactly, IdleOrg. Viral indeed!
CD,
Self Analysis, the Special lists at the end of the book, the one that starts with ‘Recall a time which seems really real to you’.
Go on, get the book, read the instructions,try the list above, it didn’t ‘brainwash’ Hardeep 🙂
Besides, every now and then a brain needs a good clean, n’est pas?
Is it this Chris Smith?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=635273693&ref=sgm
LOL!
Lady Minn I’ll do you one, no five better.
(1)
“Society, thirsting for more control of more people substitutes
religion for the spirit, the body for the soul, an identity for
the individual and science and data for truth. In this direction
lies insanity, increasing slavery, less knowingness, greater scarcity
and less society.
Scientology has opened the gates to a better world. It is not a
^^^^^^^^^^^
psycho-therapy nor a religion. It is a body of knowledge which,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
when properly used, gives freedom and truth to the individual.”
— L. Ron Hubbard, “The Creation of Human Ability”
Los Angeles: A.S.H.O., 1971, page 251
(This was later removed from later editions circa 1974)
(2)
From History of Man LRH 1952
Chapter 8
“Theta clearing is about as practical and simple as repairing a shoe lace.
It is nothing to do with hypnotism, voodooism, charalatanism, monkeyism
or theosophy. Done, the thetan can do anything a stage magician can do in
in the way of moving objects around. But this isn’t attained by holding
one’s breathe or thinking right thoughts or voting Republican or any
other superstitous or mystic practice. So for the reason I brought up,
rule out, auditor, any mumbo jumbo or mysticism, spiritualism, or
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
religion.”
^^^^^^^^
LRH
(3)
Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter
(HCOPL) 29 Oct. 1962, “Religion”:
“Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization
basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the
usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for
accountants and solicitors.”
(4) In letter to Hellen O’Brien, 1953
(1953)
“DEAR HELEN APRIL 10
RE CLINIC, HAS
The arrangements that have been made seem a good temporary
measure. On a longer look, however, something more equitable will
have to be organized. I am not quite sure what we would call the
place – probably not a clinic – but I am sure that it ought to be a
company, independent of the HAS but fed by the HAS.
We don’t want a clinic. We want one in operation but not in
name. Perhaps we could call it a Spiritual Guidance Center. Think up
its name, will you. And we could put in nice desks and our boys in
neat blue with diplomas on the walls and 1. knock psychotherapy into
history and 2. make enough money to shine up my operating scope and 3.
keep the HAS solvent. It is a problem of practical business.
I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion,
we couldn’t get worse public opinion than we have had or have less
customers with what we’ve got to sell. A religious charter would be
necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could
make it stick. We’re treating the present time beingness,
psychotherapy treats the past and the brain. And brother, that’s
religion, not mental science.”
Best Regards,
Ron
(5)
Is Scientology a Religion? What does Hubbard say in his book,
“The Fundamentals of Scientology”?
Fundamentals of Thought L. R. Hubbard
1956 1983 edition Bridge Publishing
*************************
Page 8
“The term Scientology is taken from the Latin word scio
(knowing in the fullest sense of the word) and logos
(study of).
Scientology, used by the untrained and the trained person,
improves the health, intelligence, ability, behavior, skill
and appearance of people.
It is a precise and exact science, designed for an age of exact
sciences.”
***********************
(Well, here Hubbard had a chance to explain how Scientology is a
religion. But it is not a religion, it is an ‘exact science’.)
************************
“Scientology is a branch of psychology which treats of human ability.”
LRH Page 7
************************
(Scientology is supposedly a mere branch of psychology.
No religion, here either.)
(In fundamentals of thought, there are no mentions of religion.
Religion plays no part in the fundamentals of thought as defined
by Hubbard.)
****************************
Page 55
“Probably the greatest discovery of Scientology and its
most forceful contribution of makind has been the isolation,
description and handling of the human spirit, accomplished in July, 1951,
in Phoenix Arizona.
I established, along scientific rather than religous or humanitarian lines
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that the thing which is the person, the personality, is seperable from
the body and the mind at will and without causing bodily death or
derangement.”
(Not along religous lines. Note that. Not a religion.
In the book’s index, religion is not listed.
Nor is religion listed in this book’s glossary.)
Lady Minn Cat Daddy referes to my personality , I do like Cats but I do not have one. Don’t mind having one when I feel like it or stumble upon one.
The Kitty Cats in my live are of the human persuasion. Mrauw !
Snowhat (sic),
Yippeeeeee!!!!
Try that for a bit, ;Nobody’s an asshole;. Then the other side ‘Somebody’s an asshole’. Check out The Journal Of Scientology, issue 16-G, from Tech Vol One for the theory. That’s LRH data. It be cool.
Wow, so nice to hear from you too!
Yes
Holy …holy …holy sadism?
http://www.scientology-cult.com/the-road-to-jonestown.html
Holy sadism!
http://www.scientology-cult.com/why-church-members-keep-lying.html
Joe,
Those articles are eye-opening for me too. RTC itself was under a constant onslaught.
The penny dropped reading these former RTC staff’s descriptions on what played out at Int for them. I’ve had a surge in compassion for those people with these reports. What a brutal, insane situation.
I shouldn’t be after all that’s happened, but I am, stunned.
Now we know what Nick name DM has for his main squeeze.
You Go, Cat Daddy!
No I will onley look at a printed PDF download(provided by anonymous) of Self Analysis when the said Conditions are reality.
It wouldn’t feel right if I did otherwise and this is what I know.
And in future I like to see all the acknowledgements of other thinkers and authors back in the books like it originally was and should be even if the founder himself later removed them.
I am however intrested in original books. I am a bit of a history adept.
“W // April 30, 2010 at 5:30 pm | Reply
Not to break up the love fest or anything, but I gotta ask about what you were saying, Marty, in the second half of the phone call where you claim that the disaffected/Anonymous believe you to be a bigger threat than Miscavige. I feel like there’s no reason to say that, other than tripping up the caller.”
Good enough reason I say. try doing better when ambushed by DMs goon squad. 🙂
Anons are varied and some dislike Marty.
Some don’t.
I protest with them on a regular basis. I also promote the Freezone continually.
I shall enquire further on their views re Marty.
My own curiosity.
Oh god so so so theta – LOVE AND KISSES!!
lunamoth
That is so so so theta!
love and kisses
lunamoth
Margaret,
It was so generous of you to transcribe the tape of that phone call for all of us. Thank you so much!
Just Me
This track is for any of the “disaffecteds” who’ve ever been punched, kicked, or spat upon by Miscavige, or suppressed, depressed, cast out, thrown out, exiled, defiled or assaulted. Those that have received injustice, no justice, invalidation, evaluation, out-tech or abuse at his hands, been ridiculed, belittled, banished, harangued, slapped or knocked down and bounced back up or came back to tell the tale.
In Miscavige’s holier-than-thou eyes we were all lower class so this song about working class spirit from my old home town neighborhood is appropriate. It’s by a group who’ve chartered their own independent course for many years.
And we are definitely singing.
OK, this will sound mean, but — seriously — I’ve never heard of many of these so-called “celebrities.”
Just Me
You know, I used to wear the other shoe.
I used to go on Int roundups to Hemet of blown staff. But you know, when I tried to back up the talk of “doing the right thing” it felt empty – You know – like American currency: Not backed up by anything. I sounded like Dovan – weakly mumbling the implant commands.
Now I feel like I’m backed up by solid gold. People come up to me and ask me if I am doing the right thing and I say “Absolutely” with no uncertaintly like I had before when I was on the other side.
I guess now I have an unshakable reality on what it means and feels like to run with the truth. What my currency is backed with now is truth. It is there and it is certain.
God Bless you Marty. Really.
Your Friend, Virgil
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Snowhite!
Wohoooo!!!! My favorite troll – welcome back!
Duck season, wabbit season, duck season, wabbit season….
Crashing upwards, thanks for your comment. In your opinion, who would Comm Ev, declare and then off-load him?
I am so interested to see how this all truns out and how long it will take. 😉
Heya! You doing fine, I trust. I’m busy as the proverbial Canadian beaver – it’s mostly good. 🙂
Hi Roger,
I sent you an email. C.
Hey Tom, hiya Jim. I’ve been around, just haven’t had the time nor the reason to say anything. But what with all the good news lately, can’t seem to contain myself. Reminds me of the old days like we talked asbout a while back, hey Jim? “The good ol’ days.”
Tom, glad you’re still floating. 🙂 🙂
Yes. Granting beingness prevents creating oppterms which just create a games condition. And we’ve had enough of them. 🙂
Hi Elizabeth. To answer your question who would comm-ev him, it would be those closest to the top. Brutus was Ceasars close ally. You know what happened there. When the tide turns, people turn with it.
Well, Marty and Mike, you sure do lead very adventutous and exciting lives. It’s inspiring.
I think there may be some merit to the comments suggesting that TC was behind the celebrity involvement, particularly Doven.
He truly was out of his league. For the first half of the comm cycle he just couldn’t complete a full thought, just inuendo. It’s as if he really didn’t want to say it and if he never really said it, he could deny it. He seemed to vascilate between how he would handle it and how he was being told to handle it and it never was comfortable for him. made the whole thing out of valence and out R.
I’m pretty sure that he was not given all of the info on what Marty is doing and was only allowed to see certain “need to know” data in order to get him to agree to do (I mean volunteer) the cycle.
It’s tough tring to handle someone you know isn’t going to handle. But you know that you must do it or else. The result is a fumbled and botched cycle, which is what occurred.
I also think he totally misduped Marty saying the church is dead. I think he really duplicated Scientology is dead. That’s when he completely ARCx with Marty. He most likely did A=A on church being Scientology. No where did Marty indicate that Scientology was dead.
I thought it was funny that the little runt is still trying to figure out what Marty’s plans are. He still hasn’t figured it out. It is too simple. There is no coup to take over Scientology just a desire to see it available for anyone who wants to apply it.
You guys are doing a terrific job!
“There is no coup to take over Scientology just a desire to see it available for anyone who wants to apply it.”
Exactly! This can’t be emphasized enough.
We are interested in applying the philosophy contained in the works of L. Ron Hubbard. Period.
Lady Minn,
I love this post of yours! And it’s nice to see that you’re a cat lover. Cats to me are nearly magical. I adore them. It sounds like you have more than I do; we only have two. 🙂
Perfectly understandable you were upset about out communication enforced by the church. ARC is one of the most basic principles of Scn and for the church to mess with it like they did with you and so many others is a problem of magnitude. I don’t really feel like your thoughts on it were out of line.
And thank you so much for sharing the good news.
Snow Job,
Good to see you back. We’ve really been needing some comic relief around here, and there you are!
I love MOQ’s special process for you. Please run it until you flip back into your own valence and realize that you’re not in Kansas anymore. 🙂
I got to say something here Marty. You need a forum to so I can read this comments in their proper order or posting for this is getting too big and long.
Windhorse,
I’m very sorry to hear about what happened to your father. My father is also Hungarian. He was born in NYC, but both of his parents were Hungarian Jews who emigrated from Hungary to the U.S. Going to Hungary in 1968 must have been quite a trip! I didn’t even know Americans could travel to Hungary back then (but perhaps you aren’t American).
I went to Hungary in 2008 and found Budapest to be a vibrant and beautiful city. The Hungarians have, apparently, been cheerfully rebuilding their country.
I would also love to hear your whole story when you’re ready to tell it.
Marty told Michael Doven that TC’s life was in excellent shape (“hunky-dory” to be exact) until the “talons” of DM made their way under TC’s skin and into his head.
After reading an extensive article in “Nikon User” magazine, watching a short video about Michael Doven at work in his true field of expertise (artistic photography) and watching Michael Duff’s incredible music video (directed by Doven) called “Rise”…..all found here on Doven’s FB page, http://tinyurl.com/27qnkrn, after observing these two really wonderful beings in their native and well-honed areas of artistry, AND THEN comparing what who you just heard in the call with Marty, you cannot help but wonder, “is this the same guy”??!!
What you heard in the call, I believe, is what happens to the beautiful mind of an artist when under the influence of DM’s spell. Look at TC, look at Doven, look at Michael Duff….look at the demeaning activities they were asked to do….be thugs for a man made mad by his own “personal aggrandizement…[and] extremely egotistical” nature.
These two Michaels look to be in truth, really very cool guys. At least based on what I saw on Doven’s FB page. Had I not happened upon his FB page and seen a different aspect of their lives, I would still be maintaining a rather negative view for what they tried to do last week in Texas.
What you observed, in agreeing to do DM’s bidding, with Doven morphed literally into another person, is the slippery slope of a weakened being begin to take form as a result.
After making this comparison, you cannot help but have some empathy, compassion and maybe even some forgiving thoughts for their mistaken and failed rescue attempt.
OMG, Idle Org, you’re right. What a perfect birthday gift that photo would make for the demented one !
Sherrymk,
Pomm was your best “friend” in 2008? I don’t really think she could be anyone’s best friend. She is so 1.1 and does anything to spy for TC and DM, although she got kicked out of TC’s group and punished heavily by TC and DM back in 2005. But since her husband is TC’s only piolet and Pomm didn’t want to lose the marriage, so she did (still does) anything, I mean anything for DM and TC to be accepted by that group. But NEVER back in good standing with TC.
Pomm is another GAT New OT8 = DM’s spy
Hello Oracle,
I said that I believe that we’re building a ridge between the Sea Org and the independents. I believe so. Of course I can be wrong, but I do believe it.
I am sorry to have offended you, Oracle. This was not my intention.
My C/S:
Full retread of all ethics materials, with M9 and clay demo and very liveral use of FSDsing.
Full Ethics handling, including O/Ws to EP, ethics and conditions by dynamics.
All applicable repair lists, including L4brb or (Z by now) PTS Rd and Suppress person R/D as applicable. as adjudicated by C/S in each indidual case
LX List to get them back in own valence
FPRD and Full Serv fac handling for the likes of Linson. (Actually quite magical when used correctly and not suppresively)
after case is clean enough, back on the grade chart.
That should take someone like Marty (as an auditor) a few weeks at the most.
CatDaddy,
thanks for the link, it explained a lot about Jim Cherkas. you are a dandy researcher!
Eileen
Mickey:
Thank you for this comment. You are considering the whole being (of Michael Doven) and you are so, so insightful about the “beautiful mind” of the artist being corrupted by contact with the rapacious and consumptive mind of beings like DM.
Many of us who have been in SCN for years know the caliber of the beings we associated with and to see them spun down and degraded into the narrow channel of KSW/SCN is, on a smaller scale, like viewing Dresden after the bombing or the ruins of Angkor Wat. All that beauty, innovation, talent, and life despoiled.
When I realized that the Cof S wanted all of me; every last bit of my time, energy, money, my children, my theta, down to the last dregs of my dynamics; I ran for my life. Tom Cruise is the poster child for this phenomena. He was one of the world’s most recognized actors, know in the industry for his personal and work ethic. He was quietly low-key about being a SCN and lent credibility to it just by his involvement.
How DM managed to convince him to fire the brilliant Pat Kingsley who had managed his career into the stratosphere and replace her with his (Cruise’s) incompetent sister is a conundrum. And then under DM and the puppet-sister guidance Tom went on a PR rampage that left his career a smoking ruin, destroyed his marriage to Kidman and did more in a few short years to undermine the Cof S than any past critics had done in 50 years of concerted efforts.
And all because DM wanted ALL of Tom. To the point of seeding his environment with hand-selected (by the CofS) managers and assistants (Doven and Pomm included) to spy and manipulate and extract. And those involved in this game went down (are going down)too. Mickey you just nailed it in your post. It is a huge waste of human talent and theta ability to allow the CofS to co-opt and corrupt countless individuals.
I could go on and on about this as I have seen in done over and over again. The same scenario that occurred with Michael Doven has been is emblematic of the CofS. When you enter this kind of orbit (the DM and Cof S universe) there will be destruction and lots of collateral damage.
If Chris Smith, Michael D Roberts, Michael Duff and Denice Duff were among the celebrity center member crew Tommy managed to dredge up, perhaps there is a possibility that celebrity handler, Jim Meskimen, was there.
http://www.facebook.com/jim.meskimen
Jim is thepitbull sent to sppy anmds keep an eye on those celebrity members hanging on the fringe:
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php?topic=3173.0
theoracle, Damn! You really got into a wonderful roll there. It was most excellent! Thank you very much. You are appreciated.
And Stefan, than you too for intentionally or not taking up the role of minor antagonist. It seems that you provided just enough “rub” to keep theoracle on the roll (ummm…sort of reminds me of keeping a line charge going but different).
Finally, @ Theo – you are so right when you say, “Actually the biggest problem we are facing right now is what is happening in the world around the globe.” And, IMHO, there are many here who have the capabilites to, if not overcome, at least mitigate the darkness that continually encroaches upon us. However, due to what has evolved to be the sit with DM and his CoM, it would appear that the bulk of our attention units have been captured and held focused on this matter. But, while we spend hours with our attention riveted on the topic at hand, dark forces (outside of and beyond DM and the CoM) continue to advance their dark agendas using their most effective tool for social engineering i.e., the Hegelian Dialectic.
And just to add, the sequence of the cycle you so wonderfully summated is the story of us all who arrive here on sites like Marty’s and find common ground. The only differences being our stories are our own and never the same.
The mechanism of the “birth” of hope we all recognized Scn offered at first; the inevitable “death” we all have come to recognize in our own time frames of the degraded state the subject has been allowed to devolve into (don’t misunderstand me please….I am referring specifically to the perversions extant today vs. earlier times)….this mechanism is the common denominator that will continue to just repeat itself until some influential hearts and minds change to remove the Grand Instigator (and the far reaching adverse effects) of it all.
My apologies. I wasn’t quite finished with my post when I suddenly developed browzer difficulties and had to end off. Anyway, about that wonderfully effective tool of choice by the “Dark forces” to engineer societies. Btw, it also would seem that DM is quite practiced in the Hegelian Dialectic e.g., GAT and The Basics (just off the top of my head). I’m sure many of you could easily add to the list.
Here is a link to a snapshsot view of the Hegelian Dialectic: http://www.amerikanexpose.com/hegel/
Excerpt from the page linked to:
Why is it important for you to understand the subject of the Hegelian Dialectic? Because it is the process by which all change is being accomplished in society today. More importantly, it is the tool that the globalists are utilizing to manipulate the minds of the average American to accept that change, where ordinarily they would refuse it.
The Hegelian Dialectic is, in short, the critical process by which the ruling elite create a problem, anticipating in advance the reaction that the population will have to the given crisis, and thus conditioning the people that a change is needed. When the population is properly conditioned, the desired agenda of the ruling elite is presented as the solution. The solution isn’t intended to solve the problem, but rather to serve as the basis for a new problem or exacerbate the existing one.
When the newly inflamed difficulty reaches the boiling point of a crisis, it becomes the foundation upon which arguments may again be made for change. Hence, the process is repeated, over and over, moving society toward whatever end the planners have in mind.
It’s also important to understand that as this process is being driven, arguments are created both for and against certain measures of change. All arguments are controlled. The presented solutions — each with varying levels of unadornment — are “debated” publicly by the manipulators or their minions. This is done until a perceived compromise has been reached on the best measure to take in route to solving the crisis. Then, the outcome of the “debate” — which purportedly weighs the concerns of the public with the mandate to do something — is enacted as public policy.
Such is a summary of the Hegelian Dialectic. Though few in American society have ever heard of it, still fewer have not been profoundly impacted by its use in the effective neutralization of opposition in the formation of public policy.
End of excerpt.
On that same page is another link that will take you to a very extensive in depth discourse on the Hegelian Dialectic.
Finally, for those of you who don’t have the time or inclination to follow the links, here is a 7+min video:
Thankyou Margaret, Thankyou Marty for being so open and sharing,
I hoped someone would transcribe this, thanks!
People should hear this man’s Michael’s tone of voice, at moments his emotional conflicts are evident. I sympathize with this man’s beliefs. To me he communicated a deep feeling of faith in Scientology. Probably he won’t be allowed future dialoguing though, with Marty. I hope he does, on his own though.
But I took the moments when he was defending his idea of Scientology to be the most important to think about.
Michael’s defending what he conceives of the church.
Marty says the church is dead. That’s way over this man Michael’s head though, and also, I personally (even though I am not a Scientologist), I think the official Scientology movement is far from dead, and even if any manner of worst case scenarios happen (like losing it’s religion status, going bankrupt), the official movement will STILL coalesce into some new future organized setup and carry on in some fashion, just like they did down in Australia when Scientology was banned down there.
I have respect for those left in the church like Michael do have a right to their beliefs that their church will go on.
I think dialoguing with them about the church’s future, should go on and on.
I personally am NOT a Scientologist nor can I ever be one again, due to NOT believing in thetans and a lot more I just will never be ever to reconcile and agree with major chunks of church policy by LRH (the OSA Network Orders, based on the Guardian’s Orders by LRH, are a main LRH tool that I find appalling policy for ANY religion/church).
I think LRH’s defensive church policy and Sea Org tough guy controlling atmosphere has to consciously be reformed internally by them.
Despite their beliefs, and I believe the official movement is the one that will come out on top, long range.
They have in their possession the full block of writings and strategies that LRH wrote for the whole shebang.
They are the ones entrusted to most closely attempt to do “What would Ron do?”
I myself think they overreact, but they overreact because LRH overreacted.
The world doesn’t like the bad stuff in Scientology, and whoever considers themselves a Scientologist, HAS to deal with what LRH wrote that is CAUSING the bad stuff that is hated by the outside world.
There are good people inside and out of the official movement.
People have to become truly pan determined, and dissect what of LRH’s order/policies and his FEARS, his overreactions, there is a major chunk of official Scientology policy (OSA policy for one, the OSA Network Orders are rife with overreaction intelligence tactics, for instance OSA Network Order 15, people should google “OSA Network Order 15” and read about the ramifications that TODAY are a result of that LRH official adopted church policy).
The official church could be reformed.
I think the dialogue here on this site is priceless.
I urge people to dialogue MORE with the official movement, and inject sanity and common sense back into them!
Using ARC back on them totally jams their fixed ideas about the “SPs”.
“Marty the destroyer” is what (Chris Smith utters at the airport, dear old Chris the improv actor in the old improv group with Jim Meskimen and Tait Ruppert). And dear Michael Roberts, he’s about as mellow and a good natural type of negotiator diplomat who I likewise know is the kind of person who steps up, just like Billy Sheehan did, and will go right into the “fray” to deal with the controversies, on their own, since they feel they have a responsibility to take up those types of challenges against their religion.
Let them! I urge those celeb types to dialogue MORE! And on their own, without drilling, without going over their “message” with their church handlers.
Orchestrated church behavior is NOT ARC. OSA Network Order 15 is not ARC either.
When official Scientologists use ARC rather than OSA Network Order 15 as their basic policy, then that’ll be a step in the right direction.
I actually think the celeb types, like Michael Roberts, and Billy Sheehan, who on their own go out and try to talk for Scientology, good for them. Billy went out to talk to annonymous, and that was so cool. He didn’t look like he cleared it with OSA or anyone, and that’s what I think is the direction the whole official movement has to go. LRH’s policy that only PR trained types, or drilled reps go do the talking to “SPs” or to media, that is so wrong.
Policy that cuts ARC is wrong.
I think dialogue is the right thing.
It’s communication.
They are on short leashes, but they are the cutting edge of what Scientology SHOULD be doing, which is letting its members talk freely, openly, but WITHOUT any kind of agenda to handle.
When Scientology, can talk as free as Marty and Mike and Steve Hall and all who are freely talking, then that’s improvement.
I rather think they have the advantage, because I think LRH, were he alive, he’d NOT just drop the church structure.
He’s gonna want the organization to stay intact.
LRH if he were alive would NOT just be saying, let’s pack this Scientology operation up, and let everyone just do what they want.
LRH if he were alive, would be wishing for the organization to have the basic purpose of what it says minimally in the OEC’s about central orgs, where central orgs are places people can go to be patched up if they are messed up by the field auditors.
There are so many decades of policies that LRH added on top of the old central orgs, and that over bureaucratic Roman legion-esque knee jerk bureaucracy topped off by the militant tough Sea Org member elite top ranks, this whole evolved Scientology staff setup is tough to “reform”, especially with decades of LRH’s writings for all the staff echelons.
I think the dialogue should continue, and I’d rather LET the Michael’s, and the Michael Roberts, and all the Scientologists who AREN’T seething overemotional wound up types, SHOULD be the ones calling Marty, and having discussions.
I think though, that the church is NOT dead.
It will go on, and the official church isn’t going to collapse.
LRH feared a collapse, and he was even wrong in thinking that, when he spread that fear, in the early 1980s.
He really was fearing losing his stash of money.
Had the church shattered, lost the case with the IRS, been forced to go into bankruptsy, so F-ing what! LRH was wrong, he himself unfortunately, like he admitted to David Mayo, was into the money and power TOO MUCH at that point, and back to Michael’s pleas to you Marty, Michael is just as much a real Scientologist as anyone.
Just because LRH feared the whole thing “being lost”, as LRH feared in the early 1980s, THAT was just NOT true.
The church doesn’t die in people’s hearts!!!
So what if the church goes bankrupt and is declared a for profit business!
The same thing independents think about SCientology is the same core good think the official thinks.
Scientology will go on despite LRH’s, despite DM’s, despite anyone’s beliefs that the church is dead.
I myself even as a Sea Org member, in 1982ish, felt somewhat dismayed that LRH was so fearful that the church was going to fall back then, due to the IRS case stuff.
I thought he must have lost faith in the church.
Who cares if the church loses its for profit status, if the spiritual tech is correct (I personally today think it isn’t, which is why I’m NOT a Scientologist), but back then I was a believer in the tech; but being high on faith in the long term rightness of Scientology (since Scientology is a 3rd dynamic of people, and the people then and now are generally good people, so inherently as a group of generally well intentioned people, I couldn’t agree with LRH who feared it was all going to fall apart); and thus I thought that even losing everything, meaning losing the whole thing.
I think this “fear” of losing Scientology, is something not necessarily even MORE of a problem in the minds of those inside Scientology.
Well, all I can think of, as a former Scientologist, is “What would LRH do?”
If the movement can be reformed by ex senior members dialoguing publicly about the movement, I think that is a good thing.
The day when the existing member can publicly confess their sins, like the ex members have now successfully done (to the world’s benefit I strongly believe), I’m hoping the Michael Roberts types can rise to that level publicly.
I’m glad these celeb types are talking.
Let’s see if they can talk without being drilled or orchestrated, and see if some existing Scientologists can speak all on their own.
I wish a few would publicly become unleashed, and dialogue here on this blog.
I think you, Marty, should invite them to dialogue here from time to time.
I’m sure, long range, ALL of this dialoguing will have a good effect.
Even though I’m NOT a Scientologist, I’m eternally hopeful in things getting better.
I’m for talking and getting official Scientology normalized however possible. It may be declining, but they have a lot of good people, who once they become unwrapped from the crap mindset, I think they’ll start figuring out what really is important. All this backfighting and elevating ex members into “destroyer” labels, that’s OSA Network Order 15 stuff, and it’s just longrange irreligious and wrong.
Chuck Beatty
Thanks again Marty. You should touch bases with some of the new religion scholars sometime.
Man, I misread this. Jim, I thought your “Sheesh, no clue. Not a one.” was in response to CJ’s question, “But how does Miscavige go?”
Windhorse, for the longest time I truly thought that the reason the Berlin Wall fell was due to people auditing OT VII. In fact, I gave those folks auditng OT VII credit for practically anything good that was happening on the 4th Dn.
WH, you write…”It will never happen again.” There is an old adage that states – “never say never.” From my personal experience and observation I have come to realize that “never say never” didn’t become an adage for no good reason.
How will “it” never happen again?
………………
While living in Clearwater I had the good fortune and pleasure of working with “Hungarian George.” George was a remarkable man and we became very good friends. He told me many stories of the communist taking over Hungary and how soon afterwards, due to the communist taking away his uncle’s farm, his uncle ended his life. George, because he was an incredible steel worker, was literally able to work his way to freedom via working on a Swedish ship. In any event, because of knowing George and his telling me all those stories, I have very much affinity for the Hungarian people.
“I also think he totally misduped Marty saying the church is dead. … He most likely did A=A on Church being Scientology.”
Yes, this is exactly what I thought as well. In fact, it was being reminded of this several months ago that helped me break free from the CoS spell — I had been convinced that the standard Bridge could not ever be available outside the Church.
Anon, great music/lyrics! What a treat. thanks much.
It’s all good Stefan. Someone sent me the back to life write up as soon as it went up on the net and I had a LIVID attack. Anyway, any form of abuse against another is uncalled for. I shouldn’t post on the net when I get that angry. And anger does not solve the problems. You were right. I’ve posted the links here and I am chilling over the week end too. Peace XXOO.
Mickey, excellent comment and observation! Thanks much for broadening the perspective. It is very helpful as it is so easy to gradually slip into having narrow views of a subject on which one is so focused. It is good practice to (as Been there said) to consider the whole being.
I refer to this as “walking around the elephant.”
Walking around the elephant is an old saying that makes note of the fact that a person cannot see a complete elephant by standing in one place. The elephant is too big. In order to see the whole elephant, one must walk all the way around the animal. That’s the saying. But, as you will obviously notice, the flaw in the approach is that even if one walks around the whole elephant, they still have only seen the elephant from one point of view – their own. Indeed, the elephant is so big that to really see the complete animal, it is best to see it from as many different points of view as can possibly be obtained. In other words, have lots of different people walk around the same elephant then share and compare their observations. In doing this, the individuals involved, just might possibly be able to gain a deeper and broader understanding of the elephant they’re observing as well as see aspects of the elephant that, otherwise, they would have never seen.
So Mickey, thanks again, for giving us your view of the elephant. 🙂
Cat Daddy,
(Meowwww),
WOW! Unbelievable. You are a wealth of knowledge. I loved your references!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! This is why I love this blog so much. I am always learning, and in a million years I don’t know that I could have come up with those references. You are a treasure!
Hopefully, Jim Cherkas has a new reality! I know I do! Again, WOW, WOW,WOW!!!!!
To sort of give you some history, when I was 13 or 14, I became very interested in philosophy, and tried to read Kant, Kierkegard, Nitztsche and others. Couldn’t make anything out of these — seemed like mumbo-jumbo, except for Nitzsche idea of the Super Man (concept of an OT?) None of these guys made any sense. Then I found Ayn Rand, and she made some sense. Then, found LRH, and he REALLY MADE SENSE, and I knew I had found what I was looking for. But I was interested in philosophy, not religion. So when I first went to my closest org, I had a big ridge on the word “Church” on the door of the org. Soon, I was given the definition of Scientology, “an applied religious philosophy”. For myself I ignored the word “religious”, and for me it was “an applied philosophy”. I later realized that it could qualify as a religion since Scientology dealt with the human spirit, or soul, or “thetan”, and I was O.K. with that. But then when I experienced attacks and injustices from “The Church” in later years, the whole thing got mish-mashed together and it took a while to differentiate from the philosophy (body of knowledge), and the human, and sub-human, practices of some members of “The Church”. Your Creation of Human Ability post crystallized in words the concept I had been looking for and originally had before the confusion of “The Church” with the philosophy, (body of knowledge). For me it became an AS-ISNESS again, and all the ALTER-ISNESS just fell away. It is my guess that a lot of Scientologists walk around with this same confusion between “The Church” and it’s (sometimes inhumane) practices, and the body of knowledge. They think that if they give up “The Church” they are giving up the data, body of knowledge, philosophy or whatever you want to call it. We on this blog have found out that that idea is NOT TRUE. We have found out that here we are FREE to use the body of knowledge in whatever way we see fit, and can discuss it, share it, use it, use it to help others, and no amount of SP declares in the world can take that away from us. Actually, recently I realized that the reason I would never “handle” my “burn notice” is that I liked the freedom of talking to whoever I wanted to talk to, that I could use the technology whatever way I wanted to, without fear of being called a squirrel, or self-auditing, and it was a “reverse disconnection”. Org staff were no longer allowed to fuck with me with their weird goldenrod “issues” they would post on public notice boards full of lies and half-truths that I would have to spend years of my life trying to correct. For years after my burn notice, I realized that I kept feeling better and better, (moving on up a little higher?) and kept blowing charge over not having to be connected to that shit, and the only problem was my son, who would beg me, between disconnections, to HANDLE it. I knew I had Counter-Intention to handling it, but didn’t know why. Now I know why: I HAD FREEDOM! I did not want to go back to the rules and regulations, (the ones that don’t make any sense), and I didn’t want to go back to the constant stream of injustices and vicious attacks I would experience, always after a period of extreme contributions of time, money, and selectees, as I was a very active FSM, and a couple of times a staff member. One time I joined staff as the EXEC ESTO, and we hired 13 people in a couple of weeks, and the DSA went all over the org calling me a criminal!!!! Loudly!!!!! I got off staff as quickly as I could. This is a tiny fraction of the insanity I went through, for 30 YEARS, so that when I finally got my burn notice, it was a RELIEF!!!! Nobody from there could ever talk to me again! Of course, I was in sorrow over my friends that I truly still miss desperately, at my local org, AOLA and Flag, but having my freedom from the insanity was better for me across the dynamics, even with the loss I experienced over not being able to talk to my friends. I was very lonely until I found this Blog. Now I feel like I have friends all over the world, who love LRH and the Body of Knowledge as much as I do.
Well, here I have written another tome, (am I eligible for the Pulitzer Prize?, joke, ) but, my viewpoint is that that is what this blog is for, to run out the third dynamic engrams we have experienced and become sane again and be able to operate as group members again.
THANK YOU ALL FOR LISTENING. YOU ARE PART OF MY SALVATION.
Love to all, Lady Minn
Sorry to run my case on all of you, (YOU ARE VERY GOOD AUDITORS), but I know there are probably thousands of other public out there like me, with similar stories who have experienced years of abuse. It is not the abuse of the horrors of the concentration camp known as INT, but it is mental and spiritual abuse, nonetheless, and it has devastating effects on one’s life and production, and happiness. LRH meant for his technology to be used for IMPROVEMENT, not to make persons, or thetans, WORSE!
I am not against the Church, I actually love “The Church”, as it was meant to be, an organization that would assist others on their path to spiritual awareness and freedom. But when it used as a tool of oppression and psychic suffering, then it has to be reformed, (HANDLED), and it it won’t reform and live up to it’s true purpose, it has to be DISCONNECTED from. I hope to God it reforms, but it it doesn’t and we can’t make it reform, well, we have to do something else to keep LRH’s Legacy alive and operating for the purposes intended.
Sorry about that last sentence, typos. Repeat here: ” I hope to God it reforms, but if it doesn’t and we can’t make it reform, well, we have to do something else to keep LRH’s Legacy alive and operating for the purposes intended.”
Thanks for your patience.
Tone 41,
Yes, I love cats. I have been called CATWOMAN before, because I love them so much. Recently I fed a few strays who were starving, and now am embarrassed over how many cats I have. One tame, very intelligent cat in the house, (he comes and goes as he pleases) and many others outside. Gotta get cages, catch them, and get them” fixed”. Yes, they are magical! Independent, strong-willed, soft, and sometimes mean, kind of like us on this blog!
I am glad you liked my post. Above is another one. I love philosophy and cats! Thanks for your interest and kind words. Would love to meet you some day. We need to have a big Texas Hoe-Down and all get together and meet! Do some Chillin’ and Grillin’, honkey-tonkin, with Marty, Mosey and the Gang! Howdy, Pardner!
ML, LM
Terril, you know I love and adore you. But I watch the videos of the Anons at the protests degrading, humiliating people, bullying them, and sponsoring all out sadismfests. They are exactly on the same terms as the Int Execs except they are not in uniforms. Those staff down at street level do not deserve this kind of abuse and it is repelling to me.
Given a license to protest they go into the same tone level as the people they are complaining about, punishing bodies.
Yeah! Too big to fail just like the banks, lol.
Funny stuff there… notcie people stuffing their money under their mattress and flocking to their local savings and loans, even setting up micro economies that directly benefit their communities and not the Goldman boys?
Once again I see the corollaries here.
You got it right, the church is too big to fail, meanwhile the field is grouping together strongly and actually making things work again. Thinking people who can make decisions and take action. It’s no place for robots.
Hey maybe we could get the IRS to bail the “church” (read, bunch of buildings around the globe) out?
Please exercise your impressive command of the tech on SPs and PTSes and cease to use generalities about Anonymous. It makes you look like an OSA bot here to covertly third party Independents and Anonymous, lower the tone of the conversation, and work for dissension in the combined efforts to expose the abuses within the cult today. Thanks.
Amen from the atheist corner. OSA Network Order 15 stuff is the official church tech that recoils on whomever uses it. Agent provocateur wrong indication black propaganda doesn’t work, it smears whomever uses it.
All the official church would have to do, is just keep their TRs in, and let the members and ex members discover for themselves what they want to do, and let each other get on with whatever that is.
DM ought to have long ago, like in early 2005, began thinking of doing some confessions publicly, rather than try to keep a cork on the last 5 years of ex Int Base staffers’ revelations about his brutality.
I wonder if Shelly and Norman and Lyman tried to talk some sense into DM.
I wonder if there is any lawyer for the church who’s tried to insinuate to DM that he might wish to do some public confession.
In the view of new religious movement scholars, the flock will stick with the leader if the leader confesses, generally.
LRH surely wouldn’t throw the whole structure of Scientology in the trash just because DM’s wrecked the machine. LRH wouldn’t throw all away.
The upper staff ranks echelons are a bureaucratic machine which is self correcting, the LRH admin hatting materials for the upper staff ranks tell them what to do, the things that they should be doing instead of what they are currently doing.
That DM hasn’t just relogged all of LRH’s early 1980s general orders for fixing up the Int Base, that’s interesting to me.
Nobody ever was able to successfully do a cramming order on DM is the situation. His case, like everyone’s, is the reason.
How to proceed though, I’d recommend ARC and treating him like a psychotic case.
Tom Cruise ought to invite DM to vacation a LOT more in some place where DM can enjoy the scenery and look at large mountains and boulders.
“They are exactly on the same terms as the Int Execs”
O RLY
As long as staff at street-level is Instrumental in the luring in of people in a live-destroying cult all that is legal is justified.
It is called Though Love.
If you can do a better protest PLEASE GO PROTEST
To Ad to that. Anons do not extort money out people staffer. Anons do not coers people into abortions. Anons do not make you take second and third morgages on your house. Anons do not make you disconect from your family.
After all this Staffers will be thankfull that they couldn’t get anyone into the trap. Many exes feel guilt now for getting people in.
Please excercise the golden rule and treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
Cat Daddy we do not know what Anons do because they hide behind masks. We do not know where they work or what their day to day life is about. I wouldn’t assume they are all holy men though. I’ve seen the videos on utube. For all I know they are rapists and child molestors. They travel in gangs and harrass and degrade people on the street in the videos I’ve seen on utube. The men bullying the women really steams me up. Blatant sadism.
Cat Daddy, my life was not destroyed by Scientology.
John, please use your tech of alter ising and stop saying I have covertly third partied independents.
I have overtly announced I do not support Anon. I overtly announced a degrade on one independent on this forum. “third partied independents” is a generality and an alter is of the facts. If you feel a need to harm suppress or attack anyone who is not on the same page as you, have at it, but keep it honest. There are not many dummies on this forum. I spoke the truth about the videos I have seen on utube and they are up there for anyone to go watch and decide for themselves. No amount of trying to shut me up or degrade me here will make those videos go away John.
Cat Daddy It wouldn’t take much to do a better protest when a protester is ripping out their pubic hair and rubbing it in some staff member. Yes, I could do a better protest than that. I am not objecting to your need to have huge protest reads and manifest them on the street. Protesting is different that heckling , defacing property with chalk, getting in peoples faces and working to humiliate them, Men taunting women, jeering, and all the forms of sadism visible at the meet ups. I do not object to protest reads and whining and complaining. Abuse just as bad as what is going on in the church though cancels your right to object to it. It makes no sense to protest about something and then do the same thing. If you want to protest about something you have to stand on higher ground for it to mean something to me.
My pleasure!
Hello EXFSO, I believe LRH mentioned this type of behavior in the SHSBC tape #127 Mechanics of Suppression(#6203c19B).
Beyond that, you are using us and our purposes only align for a fragment of time. If we win the right to practice openly, and on our own accord, we will inherit the Anons on our own doorsteps attacking us for practicing Scientology. So, let’s be real about this thing. Anon is a present distraction and tomorrow’s headache for the independents.
If I pledge allegience today to an enemy of tomorrow I am setting myself up to be fucked. I’d rather win this war with out you and inherit the extra burden.
We have no connection.
I don’t need you.
And you sure as hell don’t need me.
Because if I were in New York when you were there defacing property and degrading the staff I would have sent twenty ho’s from Broadway down the street to fuck up your life.
Monte, thank you for your answer and adding comment on Hegelian Dialectic.
One worlders, globalists are here. This is for sure. We see them today, right this minute in Greece. OK, Greek people have not worked like robots do, they tend to loaf, this is true, but now the IMF coming in shows the ugly face of one worlders. They try to put both our feet in one shoe. They cut all bonuses of Christmas, Easter and Summer, which were 2 salaries for low paid people.
The IMF together with EU are going to give Greece in the time span of 3 years 100-120 billion… yes… billion euros.
I mean this is huge amount of money for one small country. Where do they find all this money?
Is it that they just print money and give it in order to buy whole countries and get them in line?
And what are the relations between all those big financial organizations like Goldman Sachs etc. ?
This is what we should be doing and getting our hands on.
Meaning we should understand that system and secret agenda and not be blind to it. Same thing like DM does.
In that way we are going to be more real. And honest to ourselves. If we are Scientologists we are not there to introvert but extrovert and shed light to areas otherwise darkened by false data and inaccuracies.
I am listening to a Robert Kiyosaki these days, downloaded one of his books the Rich Dad’s Conspiracy of the Rich. The man makes sense, he is simple and talking about some hard core facts.
He actually writes the following:
Page 9 of the book.
“In everyday terms, America was going bankrupt. We were spending more than we earned. The United States could not pay its bills – as long as our bills were to be paid in gold. By freeing the dollar from gold, and making it illegal to directly exchange dollars for gold, Nixon created a way for the United States to rint its way out of debt.
In 1971, the world’s rules of money were changed and the biggest economic boom in the history of the world began. The boom continued as long as teh world accepted our funny money, money backed by nothing but a promise by U.S. taxpayers to pay the bills of the United States. ”
And he goes on to explain how inflation came about.
Now that might not be a pertinent comment for this thread but all I want to say is that while coping with the incredible evilness of DM we should also organize to deal with the one worlders.
I am sorry I didn’t call them one wolder’s myself. LRH did and I just happened to read some reference from the Management Series written right then, 1971.
I think Marty you should open up various Topics here and appoint people in charge of each so we can have discussions in a more organized way about each subject we would like to talk.
Lady Minn,
Too cool — you and I have a lot of common background. I too was into Ayn Rand (deeply!) before Scn. And I too was very involved in philosophy in general. And I too had a big consideration on Scn being a religion when I first got in.
I’ve been reading your posts and enjoying your theta and your wins. Wow, what insanity you were subjected to! You were suppressed as your reward for being so upstat — that’s par for the course in DM’s “church!”
And hey, you’re not running your case, you’re telling your story to your friends. We want to hear it! And yes, we are all running out the 3D engram here. I think that is one of Marty’s intentions, and it certainly has been happening.
Please don’t be embarrassed by the number of cats you have. In my estimation, cats are one of the best things on this planet, so just enjoy them.
As for being mean . . . One of our cats is never mean, and the other one is only mean when he’s at the vet’s. In fact, he got arrested the other day. I’m not kidding! While at the vet’s he got his blood drawn, and then he got an x-ray and ultrasound. He was quite fed up and wanted to let someone know what he thought about all the harrassment, so he bit the vet tech. A few days later Animal Control came to our door and said our sweet boy was under house arrest for 10 days! I’m surprised they didn’t give him an ankle bracelet.
Anyhow, I’m so glad you wound up here, and I’m so glad you’ve gotten back in comm with your son. It would be great to be able to welcome him here one of these days. And yes, I’m looking forward to all of us getting together. We’ll just have to figure out how to keep the OSA and DM bots away from the party. 🙂
Captain Pubic was a long time ago and he is not following the rules of peceful protert. I agree that there are some protesters going to far like AnonOrange and AGP. They are banned from WWP. I have to put in a word for AnonOrrange since he was dogpiled at GoldBase he sustained a permanant back injury. He was the one who posted the question about the spikes.
“Cat Daddy we do not know what Anons do because they hide behind masks.”
Come on you perfectly know that is the point. They wear the masks so that they do not get identified by the Church. When asked by a policeman they provide it. That is enough.
“For all I know they are rapists and child molestors.”
Are you towing the partyline of the Church ?
“Please excercise the golden rule and treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.”
If I was a brainwashed robot or misguided individual I hope there will be some people who actually take an effort to get me to see the light in what shape or form that might be.
I am happy your life is not destroyed. I am speaking out for those that have their lives taken away or destroyed by the “church”
Follow Hubbards words and PLEASE GO PROTEST
“If you want to protest about something you have to stand on higher ground for it to mean something to me.”
What is true for you is true for you LOL
Theoracle I understand your viewpoint and it must hurt you to see your church ridiculed and even the subject of scientology by anons. What IS true is that thruth can withstand mockery but falsehood can not suffer it and will try to muzzle it.
See us as the Court Jester or the Trickster. Both had or have a distinct function.
That group does not have the ability to hurt me, so you can wipe that stat off your weekly report. They are the ones strutting around as open targets on the streets. I think they are the ones open for a hurt. Bullies are just very unpopular these days in every arena. California has passed many laws on hazing and stalking and other states are following. To attack people that are restrained and cannot fight back is unfair and injust and cowardly. It’s not about the Church or some building or any studies. It’s about morality and that is a constant.
Morality being, a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.
Here is an instant hat for you:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/
By the way, my original post was specifically to “Terrill”. Two people here have been sponging off me for ethics sort out and enlightenment. Glad to assist where I could but ……….
Also, it is a lie that it is my Church. It is clearly not my Church. And I can see why I am getting hit with your random protest reads if you think it is my Church.
And neither of you are on my list of the items I am expecting on my motivator flows.
You need to get back to the motivator flow you were stuck in. You are sucked into DM’s motivator flow.
Good luck on your adventures with your protest reads.
“That group does not have the ability to hurt me, so you can wipe that stat off your weekly report.”
I am glad they do not have that ability and the only stats Anonymous have are Empty Orgs, DM and TM footbullets and people getting out of the trap.
“They are the ones strutting around as open targets on the streets. I think they are the ones open for a hurt.”
They are serving a false god. Anonymous is protesting that. Anonymous protests are confined by the boundariers of the law. If an Individual Anon steps over that knowingly let him or her be damned, than I am not my brothers keeper.
One of Anonymous objectives is to chase them back into the orgs and make recruiting IMPOSIBLE, that involves unpleasantness.
Bullies are just very unpopular these days in every arena. California has passed many laws on hazing and stalking and other states are following.
As it should be, if any Anon is guilty of that let him be trailed in a court of law instead of being protected like the church does.
“To attack people that are restrained and cannot fight back is unfair and injust and cowardly.”
It shows how unfree they are, that they are slaves of the system, It shows how the church lies to them. Again if you think you have a better way PLEASE GO PROTEST.
“It’s not about the Church or some building or any studies.”
No its about people and lies.
“It’s about morality and that is a constant.”
Morality is a man made construct. As long as the protest are within the law, I think the basic level of morality is met.
We create spectacles on purpose to get things moving ourtcreating the church in every nook and cranny.
“By the way, my original post was specifically to “Terrill”. Two people here have been sponging off me for ethics sort out and enlightenment. Glad to assist where I could but ……….”
You are using the words ethics and enlightenment yet you spell “raid” as “read”. You are either a non-american or a teen or someone who has not completed highschool.
Alsoo you can not sponge of someone for Ethics, Ethics are found within yourself.
Your original post was to Terril. He has his own Ethics in, he is not afraid other views or contact with other-thinking people will harm him and his cause. Terril is FREE to do whathever he wants. He Operates as a free Thetan.
There is a common objective. Keeping body routing to a minimum and the Orgs Empty.
“Also, it is a lie that it is my Church. It is clearly not my Church. And I can see why I am getting hit with your random protest reads if you think it is my Church.”
I am glad it is not your church and If I said something in that direction my apoligies. Soon I hope it will be nobodies church.
“And neither of you are on my list of the items I am expecting on my motivator flows.”
I never expected to be. You have your own path to follow, I hope it involves getting this church dismantled if not that is your prerorgative
“You need to get back to the motivator flow you were stuck in. You are sucked into DM’s motivator flow.”
I love playing with DM , he is my little puppet
“Good luck on your adventures with your protest reads.”
Thank you humbely Cat Daddy
“Morality being, a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.
Here is an instant hat for you:”
“Etiquette is sometimes included as a part of morality, but it applies to norms that are considered less serious than the kinds of norms for behavior that are part of morality.”
When I was in the Sea Org everyone used to come to me for help when they wanted to leave. Airlines tickets, cash, whatever. I was always happy to help even though I was on staff. I never tried to convince someone to stay, especially if they were pregnant. Before I went in the Sea Org people leaving the S.O. would come stay at my place. Especially in the early and mid 80’s. I heard the stories. I got to the point where I didn’t think it was such a big deal to go in or go out of the Sea Org. I still don’t see what the big deal is. It’s volunteer work, you do it as long as you are having a good time at it. I did notice some folk are scared of golden rod paper. But my buttons had gone flat on that too. I found out it could be bought and sold in reams very cheap. When I left I had to relocate three times before I lost the recovery people. But mostly they would show up to crash on my couch for the afternoon. All of the other Orgs, including the Flag Command Bureau, it is not a big deal to leave. You just walk out the front door.
“This is a good example of auditing being used suppressively and NOT for the BENEFIT OF THE PC…”
That was especially clear when Marty did give him the time that he was helping (Tom Cruise etc) … and then Michael said “And then at what point did you decide to JUST DESTROY IT ALL?”
Marty’s response was brilliant (i.e. that Michael was running DM’s case), but it really brought home the point that Michael’s real intent was to try to smash Marty, and not really get in comm with Marty at all as he had pretended in the beginning.
WoW! I just listened to the phone conversation with Marty and Michael Doven…WoW!!
I actually felt sad for Doven. It was bitter sweet. ~
“You are using the words ethics and enlightenment yet you spell “raid” as “read”. You are either a non-american or a teen or someone who has not completed highschool.”
Sorry if a typo bought on hallucinations.
Monte you and that site sure have some strange ideas about Hegelian dialectic.
Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a three-fold manner, comprises three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis.
Much of this was actually the work of Kant, not Hegel though he gets much of the credit for expanding the idea.
You are fummy, you get Cake.
indeed
“It is worse than you think”
Anonymous
The truth seeps into the tiny cracks…I know this is true!
Awesome news!
Perfect even for those out a while who haven’t seen much of the theta side of LRH on the net. In a new unit of time, the theta of your site attracted me and I thank you for that!
I do think it was not available to somebody like me, trained enough to make Clears but not enough to do it alone in the swamplands!
I don’t want to be an island – I need other good creatures in my swamp!
I am soooooooo grateful for ex-execs like Marty and Mike and any/all others who come out and want to get the pirogue moving again! I’ve been sitting here surrounded by gators. But now I see the BIG GATORS and me think the same and we CAN make it to shore!
I found something very disingenuous at the official scientology web site:
Notice how it says: “Because real Scientologists” which is a PLURAL and then made out to be a SINGULAR in the last sentence.
DM is desperate now!
@Jim Logan
It can’t be MEST sans theta. 🙂
Re-read Axiom 46.
“Theta can become a problem by its considerations, but then becomes MEST.
MEST is that form of theta which is a problem.”
If theta is senior to MEST, wouldn’t it have to be theta all the way down?
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Very intersting Marty. I am glad I left when I did. I was a public then. I did work in the N.OTs Div on Flag. I had a good comm line to the “Old Man”. I still have all of the letter to prove it. It was dificult for people to mess with me during that time. DM was in England at the time and was just workig there. There was no mighty COB then. Things were pretty good. Everone talks about this little punk and so on but he still has his “Masters”. He is not alone.
The Rathbun/Doven conversation link doesn’t work. Any chance you could re-upload the audio? Thanks.
This conversation link doesn’t seem to work.
Would like to hear it.