Marc Yager and the IAS

Back in the eighties Marc Yager, as WDC Chairman and Inspector General for Admin in RTC, had an additional hat of running the IAS.  Once some serious bread began to be made under the guidance of President IASA Janet Light, DM took it over from Yager with force. I well remember DM browbeating and severely invalidating Yager as being “incompetent” and “incapable” of making money, “even though you are a fucking Jew”, he said.  And Miscavige continued to do that by pointing to HIS then-running of the IAS vs Yager’s running of management – while the former was cross ordering and bankrupting the latter.

By 96 DM had decided that Yager was his why and who.  The entire base was briefed on what a criminal Yager was and how he had intentions to harm DM dating back to his earliest days of the SO.  The briefing was one bizarre, paranoid exaggeration after another. I know. I was Yager’s sec checker.  What I reported bore no resemblance to what DM announced. Please see Gary “Jackson” Morehead’s videos on the website wherein he talks about how Yager was treated by DM during his subsequent captivity in a self-made hut in a remote corner of the property. Regular beatings. Some severe.

I wound up getting Marc through a lot of FPRD, and kept tabs on him through his RPF program.  By the time Marc graduated, DM had killed off three CO CMO/WDC Chairmans. Despite Marc’s stated wish to stay off management lines (and clearly stay away from DM), DM grabbed Marc and put him right back into the frying pan as CO CMO/WDC Chairman.

It was not long before Yager was the recipient of regular beatings, and constant invalidation and hazing in front of all WDC members, all CMO INT, and Exec strata.  Recently, someone reminded me how it was that Yager had once again fallen out of grace so rapidly.

When Marc was fresh and clean off the RPF, he did an evaluation (perhaps the last one ever issued from Int) on international stats. He found as a why that IAS had severed orgs’ lines to their own publics, scavenging every last dollar the public had before they could be asked to donate for services. He noted that IAS was cross ordering management right down to org level.  Somehow, he got the eval out and into implementation – for perhaps a month or two. Several orgs reported “hallelujah!” and many orgs had their stats begin to rebound.

That was until Miscavige heard about it. Yager was severely rebuked in front of all of Int, his eval was cancelled, shortly after NO evals were allowed to be issued by Int (which is in effect to this day). Marc was treated like dirt by DM from that day forward.

So, I apologize to Marc Yager. I have called him a mouse with no spine on this blog. I take it back. Marc is an intelligent, caring guy. I did witness him being  turned into a mouse effectively by DM. However, he had something on the ball and he cared at one time.  I think with a few months of decompression down in these parts he could be rehabilitated into a very productive citizen one day.  Hell, with what he has been subjected to, he’s got a full year’s fishing and lodging pass waiting at the Shack.

239 responses to “Marc Yager and the IAS

  1. Thanks.Great piece on Marc Yaeger.
    The guy is to be commended for his spot on eval.
    I recall that eval and how the staff blew a ton of charge .
    Do you remember the year?

  2. Impartial English Girl

    My late grandfather was a (British) front-line medic during the Second World War – and was with the army unit that liberated the Nazi’s Bergen-Belsen concentration camp (therefore he was one of the first medics to have to deal with what they found there). He was never able to sleep at night again after what he saw. I mention this to illustrate that my point here is not a glib statement – but seriously: I am running out of differences to separate DM and Hitler.

    Both were/are underachieving little runts who rose to almost inconceivable heights of power, based on fear, oppression, and gathering around themselves a phalanx of nutjobs who got/get off on bullying others. The non-nutjobs were in it for the ideals beforehand and were in too deep and/or were too afraid to speak out by the time the hidden agendas bubbled up to the surface.

    Honestly, the parallels are very striking to me – and not a little bit scary.

  3. I am glad that this data was brought to light. Sometimes there is so much entheta surrounding someone, it is hard to remember when/if there was ever theta.

    I hope one day he has the opportunity to take you up on the lodging and fishing pass.

  4. Marty, I well remember that briefing. I believe it was in January. Yager was imprisoned in the swamp area. He was literally confined to the swamp for over a year. He lived in the swamp. He fashioned a shack out of bamboo and that’s where he slept. My window in the RTRC trailer (yes, LRH’s tech compilations unit was housed in trailers next to the swamp on the property) overlooked the swamp and I occasionally saw him doing “MEST work” out there. We were so black PRed about Yager that I would mentally spit when I saw him. I’ve long since realized I was completely duped along with everybody else. He was CO CMO for most of the 80s when stats were rising. By 2000, however, when the stats had gone down for a decade and I passed around the long term stat graphs to key execs, Marc’s statement was, “Dan’s just stuck in the past.” Clearly, he had been suppressed out of existence by then. Like each of us, Marc is flawed. But a year in the swamp at Gold?
    And to think DM and Yager were close friends when they worked together in Cine as the JVC Video team under LRH.

  5. martyrathbun09

    Axiom 38: Haydn could tell you exactly. I believe it was around 99.

  6. Thanks for the info, Marty. I had no idea why Marc seemed to be always on DM’s sh*tlist.

    First met Marc in ’78 and he was DM’s best buddy in those days and continued I guess until a bit after the IG Admin days. I think that Marc was the first declared suppressive person (of many) who was kept on the Int Base.

  7. “And to think DM and Yager were close friends when they worked together in Cine as the JVC Video team under LRH”

    Narcissists can fake friendship if it is strategicly important to their Game.

  8. His game was small back than and now he is “friends”with the stars.

  9. Although I hadn’t heard directly of any anti-Semetism from DM, amongst the foul and disgusting verbal outbursts, I wondered if he also had anti-Jew feelings. There was a sort of macabre inevitability about it. Bizarrely, in a pathetic attempt to D/A me, OSA ops accused me of having Nazi tendencies!

    Thank you for your apology towards Marc, that is decent of you. I did think you were a little hard on him, I even wrote you about it last year. He and Guillaume are victims needing help, under unimagineable circumstances. I pray for them, Heber and the others every Sunday at Church these days.

  10. Impartial English Girl,

    I see them too, and it IS scary.

    The only difference I would point out is that while dm may now have many nut-jobs (of his own creation) around him, he is also surrounded by many people who are NOT actually nut-jobs, but are currently behaving in an insane way. They are good people reduced to minions.

  11. With all of the BS entheta that Der ManSavage has created I truly believe that ALL of the SO needs some serious De-DMstimulation at the “shack”.

    Marty, I’ve seen (from my public’s viewpoint) a lot of things-that-shouldn’t-be over the years. I am sooo greatful that you and many other Scientologists have found a way to help give us back our LRH. The indignities that you and Marc and others (Heber and Karen to name just some) are without a doubt criminal and truly high crimes.


  12. That was until Miscavige heard about it. Yager was severely rebuked in front of all of Int, his eval was cancelled, shortly after NO evals were allowed to be issued by Int (which is in effect to this day). Marc was treated like dirt by DM from that day forward.

    We really need to see complete accounting of all IAS financial records to clearly show where every last penny went since its inception.

    After all, its supposed to be a membership organization, not a private corporation.

    In view of the never-ending, exaggerated and deceptive drama hosted by proven liars presenting IAS events betraying the “Help” button on an unsuspecting Scientology public, its time to throw the cards on the table. Where does to money really go? Where is it?

    Considering they have claimed 15 million IAS members worldwide (although disputed by experts), and the average annual haul per member, let say conservatively, is around $250, that’s almost $ 375 million, and since 1984, just short of $ 10 Billion.

    We get stories to induce panic, nut no accounting statements of any sort, nor will they release the total of the membership base.

    But we are supposed to trust the IAS blindly and subject ourselves to only do the right and responsible thing: Have out pockets looted morning, day and night.

    Well, “Responsibility” … and transparency starts at the Top.
    Stories will no longer do.

    The Books please Mr. M. !!!

    Until such time, you shall be deemed a conman & fraud until proven otherwise.

  13. Marc and I were in the RPF at WHQ or Winter Headquarters located at La Quinta, CA (precursor to the Int Base circa 77-79) in summer of ’78 due to what was later found to be false List One rock slam definitions.

    Most of the cine crew were in the RPF and people from Uni-med which was in Clearwater which made the “Secret of Flag result” film were gotten in to get work going on the Tech films LRH was shooting. However, the scene did not improve and quite a few of the Uni Med guys also ended up in the RPF.

    LRH issued an order that if anyone didn’t want to be there could leave within 24 hours with no declare, freeloader debts or penalties and the “back door” was open. He’s done this two times that I know of. This is quite a contrast to DM’s posse and ultra-barrier mentality.

    As it was an injustice and wrong indication at the time, I had discarded the RPF rags and was in my civvies and getting my stuff packed. Marc was the RPF MAA and he got me to stay(for another 22 years as it turned out). Quite a few left at that time from the RPF and regular crew.

  14. I think Marty has mentioned how an SP becomes an SP, by assigning evil to another.

    Ultimately, we’re all in the redemption business. Regardless of the color of our stripes. We’re all in this together.

    And the ultimate success of freeing ourselves from the trap probably depends on learning to handle entheta with high levels of ARC rather than punishment and condemnation. Brutality doesn’t convert entheta to theta. Neither does blame. Brutality and blame only strengthen entheta.

    I do not view anyone as my enemy. Not the being himself. I don’t choose to “make” enemies. I choose to increase the understanding, reason and empathy in myself and others by whatever means possible. Through increased analytical capacity, we can conquer this.

    I feel that we are freeing up all this theta, converting entheta, creating a safe space. And the more theta we free, the more entheta we are able to convert.

    Theta is gathering. And drawing more theta.

    Marc will one day come to us.

    Christianity holds a concept: Love the sinner, but not the sin.

    I think we can do better than that.


  15. Virgil Samms

    I full-heartedly agree Marty – Yager was a good troop. He had some quirks and played mental games at times, but there were 2 things about him that I noticed and I liked about him: 1) he cared, like you say and 2) he was competent as a Scientologist. He was for real.

    Good God it would be a hoot to have him out here.

    ML Tom

  16. UnDisturbed

    Thanks Marty I think this brings out the best in the Independent Scn movement, compassion and understanding.

    Compare that to the vindictiveness and downright hatred too often displayed by the official Church of Scn.

  17. Lady Lancelot

    And I thought I couldn’t be shocked anymore.
    Good god almighty. This has got to stop.

  18. This is heart-breaking. Thank you Marty for sharing this with us. We have to confront all of it.
    I look forward to the moment when Yager can be recovering and healing– and I would want to contribute to that. In hearing stories like this is when it becomes so apparent to me we are connected to each other in a most mysterious way – I feel a pain for this guy I could only feel by being somewhat connected/related to him.

  19. Hi all,
    Here is a link to an article on psychopaths. It is in an interview written format that is reveling. Even though it is in a format described in psychological terms, I think it will resonate with all here.

  20. Quicksilver

    I can only say that any staff member who has given so much of their life to the betterment of mankind must be spiritually devastated to have his friends turn on him, and have, what appears to him, his eternity snatched away.

    To not have a terminal to lean on is rough … real rough.

  21. Marty, I am truly pissed off. These guys are prisioners of war for god’s sake. Beatings, living in a swamp, building a bamboo shack WTF.

    I pray he does get out.Honestly without help I don’t know if there is enough free theta left in him to get himself out.

  22. I hope Marc Yager reads this post, blows in grand style and takes you up on that 1 year decompression down in South Texas.

    This would clear Yagers name for sure as being a villain to hero in the indie field. The idea that this could actually happen makes me smile.

    But, after this post, Yager will be watched more closley at the Int base and probably locked up and guarded 24/7 like a prisoner.

  23. Anonymous for now

    I am an off lines Scientologist. I am X Class IV Org Staff and X SO. My mother, an IAS Patron was declared many years ago, and my dad passed away after achieving OT 5.

    When two faced Tommy lied on CCN about disconnection I was so shocked. Imagine disconnecting from your mother, having to explain that to my 5 year old daughter, and after all those years of being disconnected hearing The So Called Spokesperson for the C of S lie that the policy does not exist. I am devastated.

    My family was on lines when Ron was alive, my dad was trained as a word clearer, my mom trained as a course sup. They were both on staff at a mission in the 70’s and 80’s. Things were booming, the course room was packed.

    I grew up with LRH Tech. When I would fight with my sibling, I did TR’s. When I did something against my family I made amends. When I dabbled in drugs as a teen, I did the Purif, Trs, Objectives and Scn Drug Rundown and eventually joined staff. I was audited by Class 8’s, had my ruds flown by a Class 12. I did grades, Ned and had major wins! I know that the tech works 100%!

    When I was on staff in the mid 80’s we had a packed academy. I mean packed, we actually made clears at our org. I was there for their incredible success stories. I watched auditors being made weekly! We even had auditors on the internship. We played the Birthday Game for BLOOD! It was so much fun and on purpose. We got actual products, products that really mattered; Clears Made, Auditors Made, and actual Div 6 Majors! Real stats! Excessive mest never mattered, we were in a “downstat area” and people still came. We had an org Eval that actually was fairly spot on, the steps we implemented helped improve areas.

    I joined the SO and was at HGB level management, I HATED every moment of it. I loved the EPF, but I did not like the instability at HGB level management. Something just did not feel right. There was a level of fear I saw in many of the staff.

    I studied in the course room with Heber – I was always in awe of him he is such a likable man. He was always helpful, applying Scientology, helping other staff. I was at Sea Org day when he sang, we were all blown away by his ability. When I read that he is in the “HOLE” I cried. How could that be? It’s a major outpoint that he is off the lines.

    I was never happy at HGB level management. I got married and pregnant I was asked to consider an abortion, which I did not consider. But I knew others who were having them. I choose to be routed to a Class 5 org. Before I left insisted that I finish the entire routing form, including sec checks and hatting for new posts. When I got to the org I was shocked. The New Error of Management had taken over. There were so many arbitraries on the line it was amazing. Gone was the real thrust to play the Birthday game. The Academy was empty, Tech Terminals were GONE, the org was bogged down in legal financial problems, actually created by OSA.

    We regged the public for some crazy reno project to have a standard film room to play that ridicules Orientation Film. I will tell why new people do not stay or sign up, did anyone at Int management ever see a new person come out of that film? They could not find the door fast enough! What happened to finding a person’s ruin, and bringing them up to need of change and getting them to realize that we have the tech to change that about them.

    Golden Age of Tech – We sent our Sup and Auditor to Flag for Golden Age of Tech Training. The auditor never came back but the sup did and never did Method 4 Word Clearing. I mean NEVER! Trained Auditors were regged for the Golden Age of Tech Retrain, most were disgruntled that they HAD to do it. There were so many arbitraries on the metering course it was shocking, specifically on spotting an instant read. There were students on the drill for MONTHS. I knew something was really wrong. Then I went in session with a newly trained golden age of tech auditor, there was a noticeable com lag on calling F/N’s. Very invalidating.

    Then I was wrapped in blankets at exam, handed cans that were kept wrapped in a heating pad. The examiner never looked at me, just at the meter, comlagged on the calling the F/N. I thought to my self, is this for real. These were just more noticeable departures for me.

    I never met Mike Rinder personally nor have I met Marty, but I know you were both dedicated SO members. I am saddened to hear what is happening to all the Execs I looked up to as a staff member and a Sea Org Member. DM has to go. I remember when Dm took over many people at the mission we were part of thought he was a plant. I think that is 100% the truth. I am no longer blind to this bull. I am sick of being regged for books and tapes that I already have 3 copies of. I don’t wan’t NEW materials I want the Materials written by LRH.



  25. crashingupwards

    Marty, glad you backtracked on the judgement of Marc Yeager. Knowing human nature and the mechanisms of human behavior as you do, on reflection, you have cut him some slack, correctly

    We all need slack. You. Me. “There but for the grace of G-d go I”, as the saying goes. We should all be happy we have seen the light and wait patiently for others to arrive.

    That aside, your point is that the INT eval done by Yeager found the IAS as the WHY. Point taken. Yeager will soon find his way out of there is my guess.

  26. You know, every time there was either an Int Event coming or an IAS reg was in the building to throw an event, its amazing what a CRASH in stats almost always occurred. Why? Because almost all non-delivery staff were PULLED OFF THEIR POSTS to do something that had nothing to do with their hats.

    Fortunately for me I’ve mostly had a post (C/S or Auditor or what have you) that I could get out of all the all hands MADNESS that was the usual coping hell of those “non-essential” personnel. And the holes the would leave would send the lines all out of whack – “DTS! Where are those back folders I requested for PC XYZ – she just tagged and I need that back folder – its at the warehouse!” DTS: “Well – I sent the Folder Page, but she and the Board I/C and everybody else not in session was sent to do an Emergency Allhands call in for the IAS Event tomorrow nights”

    Etc, etc – GAPING holes throughout the Org every time we had one of these all too frequent “MANDATORY” events.

    Squirrel Admin? I’ll say. Whatever happened to doing one’s post and having security in doing just that? Wasn’t post security (especially with upstats) something that LRH told us our Staff Statuses gave us?

    Hell – if you complained it was the org’s own E/Os or I&Rs who enforced the off-policy staff rip-off.

    Those who tried to show policy were just browbeaten and threatened until they relented and just “knew” not to complain.

    It was one of those things that some many of us have just scratched our heads made us that much more cowed because we agreed to that BS. KRing it – yeah good luck getting the ED who is being pounded on from above to get those confirms (or whatever) caring that someone is screaming about staff ripoff.

    No more of that from me my friends.

  27. War and Peace

    One of the worst stories I have heard of on Marc Yager has been broadly posted and cross posted on the web.

    It is told by Marc Headley who wrote “Blown For Good”.

    Marc Yager was an original Watch Messenger, at LRH’s side since he was 12 years old.

    “One time a girl from the Film Area was told to run Yager down in her car — and she complied — she drove after him and to get out of the way he jumped over a wall and broke his friggin ankle!!! I kid you not. This actually happened.”

    DM orders a cine SO member to physically hit Marc Yager with a moving car used as a lethal weapon. Marc in his PTness avoids the car but crashes and breaks his ankle.

    This is the “Religious Leader” at the helm of current Church !

  28. As I remember, in the early 80s, DM and Marc Yager were best buddies for quite a while. They each married one of the two Shellys.

  29. Miscavige called Yager a “fucking Jew”? Isn’t that anti-Semitism? What was DM’s religion before his father told him to get into Scientology (for whatever reason)?

  30. Hey, and another question: is there still a hole at INT? Do you guys have contacts with staff that are still at Int?

  31. martyrathbun09


  32. Catholic? DM a choir boy? Lol. Maybe he still is catholic?

    Pope wears designer clothes too:

  33. martyrathbun09

    Sinar, I think you might be right on the first declared folk still on Int exec posts. I remember it happening with Bloomberg and Dendiu around 96 or 97. “Friends” has a very different meaning for SPs I’m afraid.

  34. bulletproof

    Hey Marty,

    Thanks! Yes, we would all do well with a strong dose of forgiveness.

    Yager was a good egg and well deserves this mention.

    DM had this uncanny ability to bring out in Marc, and the in rest of us, the worst in us.

    Hope he makes it to The Shack.



  35. Thanks – It was always a mystery to me as to how the Tech on SPs were misapplied and applied differently at the Int Base.

  36. “Even though you are a fucking Jew”.??? God forbid I spill the details of the Mission sent into Germany to find out why all the Jews allowed themselves to be slaughtered.

    Yeah, I am just setting others and myself up for abuse.

    I am soooo outof here…………..

  37. Well, ask Janis Grady about that. She knows all about everything that ever happened anywhere in the CofS and if she doesn’t know it didn’t happen!

  38. Hello Anonymous for now, You are totally right about your statement “When two faced Tommy lied on CCN about disconnection”.

    I mean, any good Scientologist former or present has read, studied and did a course using the Introduction to Scientology Ethics books “any version revised or not” and one knows that there is a chapter of the book about Disconnection.

    So, Tommy saying that there is not disconnect in Scientology is to most a big lie. What planet is he in?…

    He should for real pull his head out of his ass… ans start smelling the coffee! and apply the disconnection reference to himself…

    Any smart and pro news media could easily get a copy of “Introduction to Scientology Ethics”
    and confront him with it on camera! I’m just saying…

  39. Your comment on the Orientation films is very very spot on. Took my girl friend to the org to meet the good folks and we were routed into “Orientation” where we were told “you are either with us or against us”. Bad indicators from BOTH of us and that is practically the last time I set foot in the org. That film was a real turning point for me.

  40. It was truly a swamp… It stank, was home to about a million frogs – if you walked to the OGH at night it was so loud due to the frogs! Marc did a heck of a job cleaning it. A lesser man would have caved.
    I’d be very surprised if he got out, but then again you did Marty and Mike and Dan and and and…
    Wouldn’t it be great though if Marc and Guillaume got the hell out of there…
    Food for thought.

  41. Quicksilver

    Who cares what religion he was … and yes, the Jewish comment was pretty disgusting.

    You don’t need to give up a previous religion if you study Scientology

  42. Yeah, that story was on Coast to Coast am also. The largest late night radio show in America. Affiliates all over the coutry.

    Thousands and thousands have heard it… have people gone numb? Are they overwhelmed? How can this be happening?

  43. I was on the Int Decks when Marc Yager was SP declared by DM.

    I cleaned out that old aluminum trailer that was between OGH and M & M house, I was living it, and I think Jackson or Bob Champaign came told me to get it cleaned up. I cleaned the trailer for Marc, who came that day.

    This was the trailer, that years ago was over in the olive orchard trees across from the motels unit out at Happy Valley, the same damn trailer that I think YOU, Dan Koon used to live in.

    And before me, that trailer that same year, this was 1995 December I inhabited that trailer, before me I saw Fred Harris had spent some time in that trailer.

    I’ll bet a whole host of Int and ASI people had gone through that trailer even after the years that same shinny aluminum pull Winebago old airstream type trailer had been used I’m sure for Int Base berthing when it was out at Happy Valley.

    Anyways, the next day, this must have been the first week of 1996, January, or maybe the second week, that’s when Marc Yager came inhabited the trailer, it was pulled to the actual swamp, and Marc was made to cut a clearing for the trailer, and he lived in that trailer for a while.

    I left the decks in Julyish 1996 to go out to the Happy Valley RPF, and Marc was still in that trailer.

    He had a guard with him almost all the time.

    It was such a disappointment to me, year after year, seeing top executives who I highly respected, treated like absolute dirt and dogs at the Int Base.

    It is so wrong to treat the top people like that, it’s absurd.

    I was on the Int RPF out at Happy Valley, and Marc finally came out and joined us sometime I think in 1997 or maybe early 1998.

    Nigel Oakes was Marc’s twin.

    Ray Mitoff came out, and you Marty, you came out to brief us RPFers about Ray’s arrival, also around 1998, not much longer after Marc was there.

    Then Mariette came out, or maybe she came to the RPF, and she twinned with Ray, and sort of gave Ray a hard time.

    I really had to rearrange my thoughts, it was so sad to see top people come do the RPF.

    One time, when I was being “bad”, I wanted to blow, and Marc was the Bosun, and Ray was the MAA of the Int RPF, my twin, Clark Morton, led me to the MAA’s office in one of our red trailers, see this video, these are the trailers, and we all were there, when this helicopter cam flying over the Int RPF (I’ve written extensively about it, and can write more later), and just Marc’s and Ray’s calm presence, and my pretty much knee jerk respect for them, I just couldn’t go through with asking to route out at that time.

    Despite the Int Base cliquish, almost high school look down one’s nose at whichever person DM has designated is the “BAD” person for the moment, I myself, could never get into that crap.

    I respected all those guys.

    It is so absolutely absurd that people are qualified to work at the Int Base, and my god Marc and Ray and the others were certainly qualified.

    It is just absurd to call them SPs.

    here’s the RPF red trailers, two shots amidst this German TV show, I was secretly thinking, I’d love to run outside, and wave my goddamn hands to that helicopter, that would have flapped, but Bob Champaign, who was RPFed himself, was also dutifully blocking the door to let anyone OUT of those trailers where we all ran and hid inside while the helicopter flew over.

  44. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"

    Marty, Thank you very very much for better coverage on Marc Yeager. What I didn’t state in my verbal Knowledge Report to Tom Tobin and Joe Childs was the everlasting image I was left with when Yeager was handed over to me by David Miscavage to “watch” , topped with the order that ” you better make god damm sure he does not blow” ! ” In the HBO series Band of Brothers, the scene where the troops discover the concetration camp. As a viewer of this scene there are two sides of this discovery being portrayed by the actors which precisely captures the bone chilling atmospher I and my guards were faced with. First there was the shock and awe you saw on the paratroopers faces of the gross violation of humanity that slapped you in the face every step they took into and through that camp. That was OGH and Happy Valley mixed into one. Secondly was the look of complete “living death” on the faces of the so called prisioners”. Yeager, Mithoff, Sutter, Whilhere, Bitty, Prince, Houck, Silcock, Walker, Jentzch, Harris, Starkey, Reynolds, Epstein, Ingber, Leserve, Delderfeild, Swanson, Burke, Marlowe, Fischer, Mayo and the many many more I was forced to chase after and “watch” over the years had that similar look in their early stages Even if it was just for a day after getting over their world suddenly caving in. I saw it and it always scared me and seriously confused me. In Yeagers particular case, it was Dave’s action of putting Yeager back on post that confusd me the most. If Marc was such an SP in “The Greatest Leader of Great Leader’s” (as Tom – I’ve met them all – Cruise later announced) eyes, then why in the hell did he put him right back from where he “Suppressed Scientology” from. In fact, Dave always put these “in-competent’s” back from once they came. Another note, let’s not forget the effects David Miscavage created on the spouces of those he shot. Michelle Yeager in particular. She was the most gentel, sweetest, genuine women I had ever met on the base – actually that is hard to factually state as there were many – but Michelle was visibally crushed. There she was happilly and effectively working as a powerful Int Base Staff member, Dave Miscavage very publically and savagely destroy’s what we all know to be Marc Yeager and the good Yeager name and left Michell to fend for her self. It was a very very sad state of affairs. One didn’t know wheather to support her or shoot her for having being married to the savage SP for as long as she did and she didn’t notice a thing. We of course all knew the answer to that one but none the less, David Miscavaige’s very publically savage handling of Marc Yeager in my eyes was the point in which Dave himself took a left while the rest of us took a right at the cross roads of sanity. David Miscavige, you are a “The Greatest of All Greatest” Madmen. My loyalty to you was greater than the loyalty I had for my wife – if to those men reading this can even fathom that could be the case – I know that is very embarassing to say – I boldly stood 300 yeards between you and 3 other men whom I fully believed were there to create harm to you, your wife and the other executives and RTC Staff – Yeager included – but most importantly you and Shelly , and I almost killed a man in your namesake. The .45 hollow point pistol was loaded, safety off, sights set on the man’s chest and trigger 1/2 pulled and I kept thinking “2 to the chest 1 to the head” when yelling at the man to stop, stop, stop. He kept walking. Every step he took was as if he moved 100 yards closer. I was of clear concious mind to kill this man to protect you and the base staff. Something clicked in me when I saw Marty’s signed signature on the paper the guy was sticking out for me to take and read. I felt such relief, relief like you can not imagine. I felt proud that I truly stepped up to the plate to defend my base staff to it’s ultimate level. The relief was that I didn’t kill a man. I know Marty saw my intensity in my eyes when I went to his office for de-brief to his staged drill and very much shocked that I almost did what I did. Yes, Dave I was there for you but now, now you can go F yourself, you ripped my soul out and betrayed me beyond words. IF we ever do meet face to face and you feel a warming sensation on your shoulders, that’s me pissing on you. Sorry pal but it’s the minimum I can do for those I imprisioned at your direction. Where is Heber by the way? — Jackson

  45. Wow, Anonymous! What a great letter … thanks!

    I also agree with planetaryclearing@gmail’s comment below.

    Just Me

  46. “Narcissists can fake friendship if it is strategicly important to their Game.”

    Smooth 🙂

  47. OK, y’all, I’m not a conspiracy nut. In fact, I generally think conspiracies are lazy ways for those who want to make sense out of things, but don’t want to use any evidence laying around on the ground because that might possibly mean dismounting from a favorite hobbyhorse or inspecting a beloved bias.

    However, even after looking at all the evidence laying on the ground around the CoS, I cannot understand one thing: Why has DM been so astonishingly busy for so long creating a big house of cards that is obviously going to come down around his little jug ears and destroy him? The fact that he’s destroying others in the process is horrible and a whole other subject. But anybody, even DM, could see there’s going to be no happy ending for him in this story.

    Even the “DM is a terrorized little SP who wants to do everybody and LRH in” explanation doesn’t really click into place for me with that satisfying little sensation of release (which is different than the boiling blood pressure of self-righteous indigation that comes just before I realize I was only being an asshole).

    Why is DM working so hard to destroy all this? What other motivation could he have? What other game could he be playing?

    Maybe it’s as simple as his being a psychopath. Or maybe not.

    Inquiring minds look forward to learning the answers to these questions one day soon.

    Just Me

  48. Joe Howard

    15 million, no way. More like 30,000 tops.

  49. Mark Fisher

    I was given the opportunity when the RTC reorg was done in 1987 to leave working for DM as his Corporate Liaison I/C (basically his Aide at the Gold base) and work directly under Marc Yager as IG Admin.

    Marc Yager was a very standard Green on White executive and had tremendous management skills in applying LRH management policy. However, he would almost completely change valences when around DM and become a complete “yes man”.

    (After almost a year and a half, DM demanded that I come back to my prior post due to the “2 year rule”. My replacement was not making it and he needed me back. Reluctantly I returned. I knew he needed me because I was a buffer between him and Gold and their production and I had been effective at getting Gold to do what he needed. My replacement couldn’t do it.)

    I have a theory however regarding DM and Marc Yager. When I left in Sept 1990, Yager was still IG Admin and overseeing the management of Scientology. DM needed Yager when RTC was reorganized in 1987 because factually DM did not have any international management experience whatsoever when he made himself COB RTC. After all, he had been basically running ASI and the Legal lines for several years, leaving the expansion of Scientology to Yager as WDC Chairman and Leserve as ED INT.

    He pulled the top management Exec (Yager) and the top Tech terminal (Mithoff) up to RTC along with Marty (the top legal/ethics exec) to oversee Scientology from RTC level. He needed these people close to him in order to maintain control over Scientology.

    I wasn’t around when they started getting into trouble, but my theory is that he realized he didn’t need Yager anymore when he changed his strategy about managing Scientology around the releases and annual televised events. This was his handling for the expansion of Scientology. It also made DM into an international “celebrity” to feed his ego.

    DM was “doing it all” anyway when it came to producing the books, tapes, films etc. and was even overseeing personally all the tech and policy compilations. So why did he need Yager or Mithoff anymore?

    That is my theory anyway. This is based on stories I have heard from people who have left and my own experiences observing and working with DM.

    He is a user of people. He uses their strengths to get things done and then claims all the credit for himself and then when he feels he doesn’t need them anymore, they are discarded like a piece of trash until he decides that he needs them again.

  50. Marty,

    I had forgotten about that eval. In a goofy sort of way, Marc was quite a brilliant manager. He had the ability to spot why’s — he spent a LOT of time training with LRH on watch and putting together stat analyses every week that LRH would write him extensive responses on. So, he was hand-trained by LRH.

    He, like Guillaume and Ray especially, has been beaten into submission.

    Someone just reminded me how Yager, who had gotten an inheritance, paid for his Patron status. He did it as “amends” and Dear Leader commented that this was “ethics change” (because jews dont give away money). Of course, Dear Leader never gave anything to the IAS — just took.

    The hatred and hypocrisy of Miscavige is hard to fathom. There are so many incidents that I dont recall half of them, but every now and then I am reminded of another.

    I sincerely wish Marc, Ray, Guillaume and Heber would just get up and walk out the door. They have no idea that there is a world out here — a huge support network, and they have no idea that the future of Scientology no longer rests in the Machiavellian Midget’s hands.

  51. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"

    One more thing my good friend I have to state about Marc is that Marc Yeager , just like you but in a different way Marty, I have and will ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS admire . I enjoyed his openess and warmth. He was just like Amy and a few others, the true back bone to executive management during Scientology’s upstats and expansion. I too would welcome him like a brother. Always, Always ALWAYS! Again, thanks for bringing him to light for us to all see and share. — Jackson

  52. On the two videos, the first good shot of the RPF red trailers where Marc Yager and all the other Int RPFers were hiding from the helicopter, is at 27 minutes and 41 seconds.

    In the second video, there’s a longer shot of the whole Int Ranch, Castille Canyon, long shot starts at the last minute or so of the video. go to miniute 42 and 20 seconds and watch the rest, there’s a good long shot of the whole RPF section of the ranch on the right as the helicopter swings around it.

    I loved that damn ranch and I loved the hard word all my years out there, but that’s just me.

    I was fields in charge, I loved the olive tree olive picking, I loved feeding the chickens, we made the chicken coop, we made the pigs coral, and I helped feed the pigs, and chase up the pigs who ran off occassionally, blown pigs alert!

    Marc and Ray graduated in Novemberish 1999, and they both spoke at the 2000 millenium event, we watched it and cheered like mad, it was nice seeing in tuxes at the event speaking.

    I guess it wasn’t long, before Marc was forced down the tubes by DM.

    DM has so got to get the f out of there!

    What a waste, but I loved my time working on the ranch, Int RPF, from 1996 till Nov 2000 when I transferred to the PAC RPF.

    These films make me nostalgic, even though I’m sure they are painful to others.

    We built so many buildings.

    I remember Darius Wilhere was a great worker, helped build with Jeff Kretz, a whole huge barn that had been dismantled, and brainy Jeff Kretz labeled all the barn pieces, and we reassembled the damn thing.

    We made greenhourse, dug sewer trenches, I loved digging ditches, especially with just a shovel.

    The tree where David Mayo wrote where he used to run around, is still there, it I think is the tree that is on the photo of the tree on one of the Scientology republished books, I think 1988 edition of the Fundamentals of Thought, it’s the same damn tree that David Mayo was made to run around.

    I found out that LRH actually was pissed and sent a comment that David’s running wasn’t preceded by flying his rudiments, or something like that.

    LRH was a lot more on a lot of lines that people knew, I found out later.

  53. Code of a Scientologist:
    1. To keep Scientologists, the Public and the Press accurately informed concerning Scientology, the world of Mental Health and society.

    Nice job here all you guys for keeping the public, press and scientologists accurately informed.

    Personally I’ve found it very easy to actually follow this Code since resigning from the Co$. I had been having the devil of a time while “in”.


  54. Fellow Traveller

    My god man.
    And Jesus wept.

    There are no words.

    I humbly thank you for yours.

    Bruce Pratt

  55. This comment probably applies more to the freedom mag videos, but nonetheless it just shows a very sick parallel with history and crazy dictators. Hitler put together a propaganda film, showing one of the concentration camps and how it was paradise. It was called “‘Theresienstadt’ (1944-1945): The Nazi propaganda film depicting the concentration camp as paradise”.

    I found a few links that would show this. The first is a video taken from the actual film made by hitler. The first few minutes showing the prisoners working hard, and then it shows them going home and then playing sports.

    The next one is a series of nazi propoganda that someone put together. As I watched this, I can see so many scary things between DM and Hitler.

    I also found one of the original propaganda posters. It all looks so similar to the shots taken by DM for the videos.

    There was a movie made about 5 years ago called “Prisoner of Paradise” that depicted the making of the original movie, and how it was done.

    So when DM starts to compare video of concentration camps and then shows INT base, it just makes me sick. This was the very think that Hitler did as well in his Prison Paradise!

  56. I’m confused. Wasn’t Marc Yager one who filed an affidavit saying that DM didn’t beat anybody? What did he say in that affidavit? (I didn’t read it.)

  57. Martin,

    Perhaps it is also just pushing buttons, or impinging in a horrible manner such as completely filthy language.

    DM and Shelly have called me, in a half joking manner – “you fucking gook”. Heard other Asians addressed as “Jap” too.

  58. Thank you for posting this info, for cleaning the slate with Marc Yager, and offering him solace.

    → [My favorite Sea Org missions were EXTRACTION missions… 🙂 ] … could still be done …

    I previously worked in the CMO Continental Network, and always had VERY high respect for Marc. He is a competent, common sense being. Trained directly by LRH the boy. I had the ambition to work directly under him/alongside him at some point in my S.O. career, in order to learn from him.

    I never deviated from my Code of Honnor with Marc.

    6. Never compromise with your own reality.
    7. Never permit your affinity to be alloyed.
    8. Do not give or RECEIVE communication unless you yourself desire it.

    Myself, I had several friends and colleagues throughout my Class 5 Org staff & Sea Org career who got demoted publicly or assigned to the RPF (publicly as well). I’ve witnessed my colleagues being degraded & ridiculed at musters by Commanding Officers, executives and also by Int Execs. I didn’t let it ‘color’ my opinion of them. I never compromised my Code of Honor with them either. I was always one of the few to grant them beingness and keep them in high esteem, regardless of what happened (even the Senior Case Supervisor and other tech terminals who stalled & messed up my case, and DESERVED their RPF assignmemts. I still originated the communication, greeted them, treated them with respect, and talked to them.

    I NEVER agreed to the demeaning of our fellow staffs, Sea Org Members and Publics.

    Θ Those of us who’ve “travelled” and “visited” the Whole Track know that we’ve ALL been ‘Saints’ AND ‘Devils’ throughout history.
    *[note to some readers: If this info I write here is not real for you, then DON’T accept it. *On the same token, please respect MY freedom of expression 🙂 ]

    One anecdote worth mentioning:

    ► In the mid 90’s, Mark Yager, as WDC Chairman, personally CANCELLED the RPF assignments of 2 staffs; one was a competent SMI Int exec (Kim) and the other was a young, competent carpenter in PAC Base Crew. Marc ordered that they be reimbursed their FULL Sea Org allowance (salary) for EACH day they spent in the RPF even if their org did not pay the staff or had shortened allowance for some weeks. FULL reimbursement.

    They both had been mis-assigned to the RPF, from FALSE reports of sexual mis-conduct, after Kim “blew the whistle” and exposed top SMI execs who were embezzling money from Mission Holders and the Missions Network. (Correct me if I am wrong but one of the bad execs included WDC SMI – Pablo Lobato).

    In that Golden Rod, he stated that the two staffs were given the option to remain in the Sea Org and regain their previous postings or higher, or if they wished to route out of the Sea Org, they were FREE to do so – with NO freeloader debt.
    → They BOTH opted to route out. (Cheers! to them) I salute you both if you read this blog.

    Marc righted that gross injustice. Remove him from DM’s enturbulated environment, and you’ve got one super-duper thetan.

    Fraudulent, criminal executives shoot those staffs who miss their withholds and expose their true crimes.

    Aren’t there 2 reasons for “THICK” Ethics files? [paraphrasing here]
    (this is in the Sea Org Missionaire School training materials and in OEC Vol 1 – HCO)

    1) Real ethics trouble beings – who can be handled and helped
    *2) “Whistle Blowers” given heavy Justice by Suppressives to prevent the SP or “Tiger” from being found out. Most of the time, the ethics chits, Commitees of Evidence, etc for those people always originate from the same terminals. (Note yesterday’s post as examples of FALSE ethics baits)

    … There is also the super-thin or empty ethics file of a long time staff or exec that raises a yellow flag of inspection … (Even productive staffs get some commendation letters placed in their Ethics file). I assume that DM’s ethics file is pretty thin … he probably has unblemished ethics in the records. Yet, he is shooting the large gun of the Sherman Tank. Totally textbook.

    Suppressive executives usually demolish HCO and Qual then use them in a “Police-State” manner to oppress staff and camouflage their crimes.
    Sound familiar ? …

    DM’s behavior is perfectly, totally textbook to a T, as described in the HCOPLs of OEC Volume 1 – HCO Department 3, Inspections & Reports. The awareness level for that department is Perception, by the way 🙂

    Marc Yager is in category # 2 above. I put out my intention for him to get all the help he needs, and to be rehabilitated. This planet needs him grandly !

    Thank you. Θ♥

  59. You might remember Tom/Virgil, that year I was working on the computerized routing forms submissions, I think Dan and Russ Williams you for sure Russ remember, I had a total of over 160 separate submissions, 93 computerized routing forms, and submissions for all the attachments, it was a years worth of piloting and revisions and final submissions, and I got a zillion cramming orders from Marc Yager, all excellent crams. He was one of the best strictly admin HCOPL minds at Int, and at the end of that mission for those routing forms, I was an expert on the f-ing org lines. His wife was RTL (LRH’s Traffic Liaison) had an office right next to his, second floor Del Sol building, and her office had all the LRH despatch traffic, the “advices” traffic for all the Int Base units that had LRH traffic. I had to read cabinet after cabinet of it for the damn routing forms project.

    It was tedious, and I skimmed huge amounts of it, it was just too much to fully comprehend all of LRH’s Int base despatch traffic to all the units over the years.

    Bob Browning was the good natured AVC Aide at that time. He must have been shot from guns I never found out why.

    ED Int most times ate his meals in his office for some reason, I suppose to work more. His Communicator was a nice french lady.

    Marc Yager from my admin course supervisor mind, I always watched execs, eyeballed them sizing them up per LRH’s OEC policy, and Marc was pretty exemplary executive in the year I hung out at Del Sol doing the routing forms submissions, 1983-1984.

    One thing that puzzled me, was an all base survey, in the end of 1983, when the staff were all surveyed for WHO should be the exec to MC the end of the year Int Base local New Years event, and DM won by a landslide, and Marc was second on the voting, but got less than half. I’d have voted to him, but I was a visitor and my vote didn’t count. I always wondered why DM go so much of the votes though.

    There was also the Org Board Project going on at the same time, used to be Paul Kellerhals wife, from AOLA later she was in Exec Strata, forget her name, darnnit, we shared office space sometimes in Del Sol. She and I traded solice on our rejects from “the CO” which is how Marc was refered to in Del Sol that 1983-1984 time slot.

    Russ you used to be right next door for a while in Del Sol.

    I’d say 1983 was a pretty smooth year at CMO Int and Exec Strata when I was there, until the summer of 1984, then I went to PAC, and the Flag Bu was starting to move out from Clearwater and took up the 3rd and 2nd floors of the complex temporarily for a couple years, Dave Henderson eventually became CO FB/FCB.

    Mariette came down from her WDC positions to hold CO FCB for a year or two I remember around 1985 or 86 I think.

    The FB/FCB was in the complex until it moved to the HGB in 1989 May.

    Tom I remember you going to Int off and on for briefings, etc, and you did evals for Sea Org Orgs and were one of the stable FB/FCB managers. Kent-Ove Hvass, Karen Hvass, Betinna Henderson, my god there was a lot of programs chiefs who today, I think the whole Programs Bu got put onto book selling that summer of the re-release of the Basics Books, god the unbelievable cross orders off of management duties is pitiful. Programs Chiefs were phoning people selling those damn book packages this last book release. What a fit LRH would have if he heard that’s what middle management was doing.

    It’s such a complete mess.

    DM has had a complete utter devastating effect on the whole administrative top two echelons, Int Management (WDC and Exec Strata) and middle management (FB/FCB now called ILO Int Liaison Org). LRH would roll over in his grave.

    DM was an oppressive person to meet in public, I remember bumping into him and the ASI entourage in the PAC Base elevator one evening, 1984, he was always the shortest guy, and it seemed so odd that he was the most powerful one and every one of the taller beefier ASI males all shuffled so as to give him his toe space in the elevator, I caught on quick, but I shouldn’t have gotten on that elevator. Greg Wilhere, Norman Starkey, short DM, it was an odd moment.

    At that time the ASI staff lived on the 4th floor wings of the complex in their reno’d decked out rooms, you must have been in that elevator Marty.

    I sure felt out of place, like I shouldn’t even have stepped on the elevator. Those ASI days I hope someone someday tells the history of what life was like under DM.

    When I slipped up the org board into ASI in 92, we got a DM walk through sometime a year or two later, and COB Asst ordered ASI staff to be briefed that COB hated to see people cower when he came around, and that we were to be friendly.

    My god, the implications of that order from COB, the man has no f ing clue about his horrid oppressive presence, and then he complains when people cower and act artificially stultified when he does his walk throughs, and to his old org even, ASI. That was sad. ASI was full of leftover staff in the 1990s, a little bit scared shitless of DM it seemed to me.

    He prides himself on having steely ethics presence and power, and then complains when people genuinely flinch at his menacing presence and go all subservient and cower.

    Marty, in your St. Pete Times interviews, and Amy Scobee, you both said it. DM’s just so damn unpredictable.

    Not a speck of self conscious reflection or remorse that anything he might have done might be causing people to cower in unnatural stifled unease when he comes for a walk through.

    Marty, what was DM like those years when Marc Yager was IG Admin, you were IG Ethics and Ray Mitoff was IG Tech? And Greg Wilhere was IG. That has got to be a slightly better period in his abusive presence. Shelly Brit, you’d know those years at RTC too.


  60. My experience in reading about the higher ups, such as Int base people and other staff people vs. public people is that public people donate the most amount of money, while sea org people and staff people donate their time with repulsive and crazy expectations from DM.

    Is this perhaps the reason that the abuse starts at the top like Amy Scobee has wrote about? Who better to use and abuse than the people that are living in quarters, eating, housing, (supposed health care) and in David Miscaviges mind are just lowlifes? He seems to love the control and feels he can abuse such good people that have donated their life to Scientology. Donations seem to be the ruler here.

  61. Very well put.

  62. Mike R,

    I completely agree with you “I sincerely wish Marc, Ray, Guillaume and Heber would just get up and walk out the door. They have no idea that there is a world out here — a huge support network, and they have no idea that the future of Scientology no longer rests in the Machiavellian Midget’s hands.”

    Marty, truth is hard for many to confront. but I am glad you are exposing them daily.
    God bless you.

  63. There’s grace in this post, Marty.

    I wonder what Yager knows that DM is so afraid of him.

  64. Joe Howard

    Mike, I think that if they knew that Security is forbidden to lay a hand on them if anyone tries to walk out that there would be a mass exodus.

    When I was in there I thought that Security could physically drag you back, so I snuck out, like many others have done.

    But with the comm lines opening up, with some people now having email there seems to be more opportunity to get messages into the base. I’m sure a halfway decent hacker could get around the filters on the emails.

  65. Nightmares Getting Less


    Thanks for this new insight on Marc Yaeger.

    For what it is worth he and I have not seen eye to eye over the years, though we had only a few encounters over the years.

    I long suspected that he was the effect of DM suppressive actions. From your article this is now confirmed.

    I don’t think anyone could survive what he has gone through time and time again for literally years, and probably decades. I now see this, and my viewpoint has changed for Marc. He hasn’t deserved nor anyone should this traumatic abuse.

    Marc Yaeger, I hope you restore your yourself some day soon. Good Luck Brother.

  66. Carol~that’s exactly what I thought too…POWs.
    It’s hard to even read this, how evil and nasty and degrading it is.
    Do we need to send in some Navy Seals or Rangers or something? That’s what it seems like, except we’re not talking about a country we’re at war with or Somalia or Iraq.

  67. I’ve wondered about that too. It would be a lot easier for DM to achieve his personal goals of adulation, power and MEST if he actually got standard Scn. applied. There would be tons of public, money, and he really would be admired. Really, it’s all there for him. All I can think is that he really can’t have people getting better, per the suppressive characteristics, and that he simply must stop any betterment, even if it ultimately brings about his own demise.

  68. ” I boldly stood 300 yeards between you and 3 other men whom I fully believed were there to create harm to you, your wife and the other executives and RTC Staff – Yeager included – but most importantly you and Shelly , and I almost killed a man in your namesake. The .45 hollow point pistol was loaded, safety off, sights set on the man’s chest and trigger 1/2 pulled and I kept thinking “2 to the chest 1 to the head” when yelling at the man to stop, stop, stop. He kept walking. Every step he took was as if he moved 100 yards closer. I was of clear concious mind to kill this man to protect you and the base staff. Something clicked in me when I saw Marty’s signed signature on the paper the guy was sticking out for me to take and read. I felt such relief, relief like you can not imagine. I felt proud that I truly stepped up to the plate to defend my base staff to it’s ultimate level. The relief was that I didn’t kill a man. I know Marty saw my intensity in my eyes when I went to his office for de-brief to his staged drill and very much shocked that I almost did what I did. ”


    Was this a drill?


    Thanks for posting this. I think this gives real insight in to the institutional psychosis going on at the Int base. The creed of the Church states that the laws of God FORBID man :

    To destroy his own kind;
    To destroy the sanity of another;
    To destroy or enslave another’s soul;
    To destroy or reduce the survival of one’s companions or one’s group….

    Thank you for your sanity in that moment.

  69. Mike Lemeron

    I was there for 21 years and your observations are correct.

  70. Anonymous for now,

    Great post.

    Great question;

    “What happened to finding a person’s ruin, and bringing them up to need of change and getting them to realize that we have the tech to change that about them.”

    Most definately out tech.

  71. Concerned Citizen

    I have always known that the real person was a worthwhile person deserving of the admiration I felt.

    Thanks for this Marty, I too hope he will come out, perhaps if enough of us send some theta his way, he will.

  72. This definitely gives more hope for the future.

  73. Thanks Marty: 99 sounds about right.
    Fascinating stories and keen insight abound here.
    Justice will be done,and I want a front row seat where is the posse sign up?

    BTW: please don’t tell me I’m the only one here who thinks an earlier poster here is … how do I say it … “suspicious”.

  74. Theo Sismanides

    Gary, thank you very, very much for speaking out on this incident and the whole role you played for DM.

    As a person outside of Int when I was in the SO, me and my wife, when things which were High Crimes were being committed back in the ’90s, we thought that everybody in Mgmt was “in”. At least the top guys.

    After Marty came out and spoke up things started to clear up and we were GIVEN DATA as you are GIVING US now as to what was/is happening up there.

    I could have never imagined at Int someone would pull out a gun to threaten a leaving staff member or for anything else. I am sorry. I do understand that under certain circumstances people act crazy especially with DMs around.

    Now that we know more and more about all this crazy stuff and how DM manages to keep people in line, we can undo it more easily.

    Thank you again for sharing with us this story and for being able to be once again your true self. We are all working together to undo that insanity with theta. The ultimate power there is in this Universe. You are amongst friends now and not psychopaths. The two rights of a thetan apply: The right to leave a game and the right to his own sanity.

  75. Theo Sismanides

    Just m”e, conspiracionism” is around and sometimes is the lazy way to interpret things. However, since we all have the tech on the Data Series we can use Outpoints as Outpoints and not dub in data. So we proceed from Outpoints and we might be lead to Sherman Tanks that people can hardly believe. This is not “conspiracionism”, it is logical thinking that Homo Sap detests as he has no clue that there is such a thing.

  76. Theo Sismanides

    Mark, very revealing info. thanks a lot.

  77. Oh, wouldn’t it just! WHAT a story he will be telling – hopefully very soon. I had a dream that all the top execs defected leaving DM and Lou alone with a few estates staff at Int… or was it a prophesy?

  78. froghopper

    Hopefully Marc Jager is under some sort of rehab care if he is out for the trauma he has gone through. I certaintly hope Ray Mithoff and Guillaume will go soon. Having had experience personally working with Guillaume He being my Boss in Europe for a long while, before he went to hold ED INT. He use to be married to a Italian, obviously not any more.
    Guilliuame has been there for years , I doubt he will ever be the same person again. Ray Mittoff aswell, as for Huber Z personally Huber is a straight liar and a very very untrusty person at that .
    I ask another questioned on this site if any one care’s to reply to my email below , what is the purpose of why DM keeps “Diana there and under the DM wings, She is the only remaining member of the Hubbard Family. What actual protection does this women get if any and what help as she had to see the situation.
    Who is willing to responded to this question if so please contact
    Diana I knew as a little girl, and whilst at the Ship. thereafter even at the Flag land base .It was through Diana where I got her’s and only her support to do my OT 3 which back then I was award by LRH to do it at flag she worked then in Div 6. under those days LRH.
    Thats when DM interceted and I had my encounter with.

  79. Up to this day and this blog I personally considered Marc as the man behind the Gang Bang Sec Checks, that either started them personally or he was senior to those who spread it out to our org, Munich.
    The Gang Bang Sec Checks had been introduced and started by a CMO INT Mssnr. As far as I knew back in 83 Marc had been the senior of CMO INT.
    Am I wrong?

  80. Gary, perfectly stated again. I wish I’d known you better at Int, without the suppression of course. Lucky for me I was only there a short while before Aznaran is his wisdom decided to re-write the conditions for RPF assignment (what did LRH know, after all?), and there, with the grace of God, went I. (Remember the infamous 10 General Orders?). There were all sorts of famous names on that GCT/RPF, including Steve Marlowe. Whatever happened to him? We were together in isolation for a stint with Pink Eye; we had long chats about modified NAD amps I seem to recall. When my RPF assignment was cancelled Kenny Seybold said I should report back to post. Perhaps I should – only with some friends this time…

    On a more serious note, how many weapons are there on the base now, and what kind? Who has access to them?

  81. Impartial English Girl

    Lunamoth, I agree. Good people, when totally isolated from truth and reality, and cowed beyond endurance by the only individuals they are permitted to interact with, will behave in totally uncharacteristic ways. It is akin to psychological ‘rape’. And those people are the main reason why we should continue to speak out – they deserve to be set free.

  82. Theo Sismanides

    As an SO member far from Int the only things I can say about Marc Yager is that he was never antipathetic and he looked like he had a good grasp of Scientology admin tech. However, the fact that he belonged to Mgmt made him look suspicious in my eyes as we were effect of all the High Crimes committed.

    Things are getting clearer now with all this new data in hand. A 3D engram running is occuring here.

    Speaking about Marc, Ray, Guillaume and Heber walking out the door as Mike said, is a good thing. They have all (maybe except for Heber) their mutual High Crimes though, especially ED Int who chose to keep his post and ordered the abortions on Sea Org members back in 1996 following DM’s order), and for this they need to take action and deliver an effective blow to the enemy of Scientology they have been supporting. Of course it is understood under the light of new evidence given by most of the people here that they have been acting under a psychopath in the best of cases. This is now understood but they also need to understand that time is passing by and Planet Earth is a worse madhouse today than ever! Scientology is NOT here just to move people Up the Bridge. Scientology is here to make better people, expose the real SPs and give us a saner environment where honest people have rights too.

    This is their conscience now and our responsibility is to keep Scientology alive and disseminated. They can help, everybody can help and we are not going to be around for ever. The game has a time limit factor and I think that the signs on this planet show us that the tides have not turned for the real SPs. This is not conspiracy this is actual observation. War, famine, drugs and crimes are still around.

    A political leader, a true political leader would unite people of different denominations and nations without taking away their beliefs and sovereignity.

  83. Anonymous for now

    I don’t understand how Marc could be declared an SP. What Crimes or High Crimes did he commit? What gradients were taken to “get his Ethics In”? He was IG Admin when I was in the SO, and very respected by all.

    In my days on staff and in the SO, a staff member who was declared an SP was totally offloaded. You went out in the WOG world and tried to scratch your way back. Do I have an MU? It sounds like being declared an SP is now a daily occurrence at Int.

    When my mom was declared, she actually did have some major outpoints, crimes or high crimes NO, but outpoints yes.. Honestly I think after completing L12 she was a little off. Like many I saw who did the L’s, something was just not right with them. My mom also spoke very bluntly about how out pointy the Golden Age of Tech was. She even wrote Reports to RTC on these outpoints. I wonder where the order to declare her really came from.

    What has happened to Scientology? Honestly, we have to fix this..

  84. Watching Eyes

    Is it possible to get into Int to get those people out? If law enforcement understood that the place is being run like a modern day concentration camp would they act? If they really understood that the staff are in fact more like POW’s would they go in?

    I’m sure if the law raided Int the staff would say they’re there because they want to be there. But such statements would clearly be the result of the Stockholm Syndrome and must be ingored.

    What’s the solution to this Int base of horrors being run right on US soil? Is there a solution?

  85. martyrathbun09

    Well, no surprise things got worse in the summer of 84 as you state. In May 84 LRH went off way further off the lines, never to really be significantly in touch again. Good observation on IG/tech/ethics/admin days. That was the ONLY post LRH period stats rose. That is a very lengthy chapter or two to explain. But in short, it was organized 87-90 in the only way RTC could be organized on Source and not in a perpetual bypass and was somewhat adhered to. It was allowed by DM for two reasons and two reasons alone – in retrospect. One, in order to end the IRS CID investigation into him and make exemption possible. Two, to keep Pat Broeker at bay and out of the structure. When it no long served those purposes for DM, in 1990 it all was chucked and the ‘hey you’ org board went into effect, with only DM allowed to say “hey you.”

  86. I have to comment.

    I feel impelled to.

    In the mid 1990’s I was ordered by DM to investigate Marc (as well as Guillaume and Ray) daily to find his crimes. I was to shadow him, I was to go through his personal files and accounts, I was to go through records of phone calls, affiliations, you name it. I was ordered to find the CRIMES.

    As I was an RTC investigator, I certainly worked to find the dirt — but I did not find any. Not on Marc, not on Ray and not on Guillaume. Oh yes, there were “omissions” — there were “cross orders” and so on — but this was not enough blood and gore for my boss.

    As time went on and my investigations did not reveal the crimes of magnitude that DM always asserted — I became the target as well. I was busted several times for my failure to find their crimes (Marc’s, Ray, etc.).

    When Marc was then removed by DM, and we were briefed on the supposid reason for this (and also made wrong for not having unearthed it ourselves) I knew there was something wrong. It did not open a door. It was a who, not a why. It violated the basic Data Series. It did not make sense.

    I watched from afar as Marc was in the swamp and then, when I was later removed from RTC, Marc was in the RPF. When he graduated and was immediately made DM’s clay pigeon again it became clear to me that Marc could never win under DM.

    He could never be anything but dirt.

    He could never do anything right.

    He was doomed.

    When I was ejected from the Int base a few years later, Marc was deep in The Hole and god knows where he is now.

    I must say however, after spending hours following Marc around, listening to him, watching him, investigating him — I developed a real affinity for the guy. Same for Guillaume and also Ray.

    These men have been in the SO for years (and I mean years). They have done the hard yards.
    I can say with certainty that they are men of spirit and dedication that is beyond what most would even consider. Further, they used to be men of humor, men of fun and the spirit of play.

    Until DM decided to make their names mud, I have memories of high spirited staff meetings, practical jokes (that were actually funny) and an underlying excitement about the future.

    That is all gone. It has been gone and dead for more than 15 years now.

    I have listened to the BPR that DM spouts about all three — and have witnessed beatings and denigration beyond belief — but what is real to me — and always will be — is that these guys are simply targets of a mad-man.

    They have no way to succeed unless they get out from under his thumb. He has beaten them into submission and I hope they get out someday — as I truly feel these men (Marc, Guillaume and Ray) are men of compassion and dignity.

    They are not the criminals that DM has painted them to be (all you former Int base staff will know exactly what I am talking about). They are simply whipping boys. They simply provide a way for DM to flex his muscles, show his strength, and intimidate all those under his reign.

  87. Chuck — thanks for sharing all these thoughts … the one thing that stuck out for me though was … “top people shouldn’t be treated like this”

    Holy moly — NOBODY should be treated like this.

    To me, it pointed out that perhaps you might still have a “thing” regarding ones position. Everyone should be treated with respect. Elders should be respected for their wisdom (IF they display/manifest wisdom).

    Years of Sea Org indoctrination builds that hierarchical mentality wherein we feel LESS than some top brass (who might have just backstabbed his way to to top, let’s not forget).

    That is never going to build a sane society.


    Sorry for the morning rant – but good grief —

    PS I did really appreciate your fond memories of the Int Base, building all those buildings, chasing the pigs and chickens. And I also remember you as a very kind sup, so don’t forget that part of your past as well. Be well.

  88. martyrathbun09

    Solace, Thank you for this rundown. It is accurate from my perspective. It is really nice to hear from you on this site. You bring a lot of insight.

  89. Ex Int Staff Member

    This post got to me emotionally, because I remember Marc as a fine CO CMO Int until DM got to him. I recall that horrible “Yager is an SP” briefing you described and I flunked the meter check that was done afterwards by RTC. I can’t remember the exact question but it had something to do with having any disagreement with Marc being removed from post. I had to go back and get that “cleaned up.” I also recall seeing you taking him in and out of Qual for sec checks, so I can vouch for the fact that you were doing that. During the whole time I was at Int, stats were never better than when Marc Yager was CO CMO Int and being carefully guided by weekly advice from LRH. Those were good times in my estimation and that all changed forever after LRH passed on and the DM creature took over.

  90. THIS is perhaps the most bone chilling comment ever.

    That Jackson ALMOST killed another person based on a DRILL?????

    I’m appalled and am going to have to take a good hard long look at all of this.

    I fear that there is MUCH MUCH more remedial work needed than I had even imagined. It explains TO ME the occasional sniping comments, that seem so unnecessary.

    I’ve posted here and read this blog because 1) I am curious as to what happened/is happening 2) am hopefully to find my lost friends 3) and because I am hopeful that my little rather inconsequential voice of “DO NOT HARM” might be heard and embraced by some … the voice perhaps of a studied Middle Way person.

    But — to RISK the possibility of actually killing someone.

    I’m truly in shock.

    Mind you — I take troubling ants OUT of my house rather than squish them. I work to be mindful of my speech everyday. It’s not easy but I work at it.

    Before any of you say that TOUGHNESS is what it’s all about … I say — BS — not blind toughness but the toughness of MLK, Malcolm X, HH Dalai Lama — that is what I aspire to.

    NEVER EVER to kill another human being IN THE NAME of defending MY BASE.


    It is INEVITABLE that my body will die. NO ONE has
    escaped death. Not the Buddha. No one.

    It is NOT INEVITABLE that I will KILL another human being.

    Someone killing me has merely hastened the inevitable. Were someone to come into my home to kill me, of course I would be upset, would fight as best as I can BUT I would NOT KILL THEM.

    This is a discussion I’ve had with my ex, and others.

    And to THINK that at one time this KILL DRILL was extant at the base. I’m utterly sad.


  91. In the event there are those who feel it necessary to respond reminding me of “defending ones country” I’ll add that …

    Yes – unfortunately AT THIS TIME we need to defend our borders from those who will just come and take over.

    Ken Wilber does a great interview explaining this.

    HOWEVER, those who defend are either volunteering to do so, or in the past were drafted. Either way it was a particular position in their lives.

    The INT BASE — REGARDLESS of what others might think about its worldly importance — DEFENDING it smacks of the level of a hierarchical mindset that sadly it has now become — utterly a place owned, operated and run by a madmen.

    Yet, that madman was helped along with the support of many many … it pumped him up until he became so utterly STUCK in his mind that —- the next potential inevitability — a JONES TOWN massacre — becomes more real to me every day.

    I shutter to think of the fire power than exists at Hemet.


  92. Just Me,

    I think it is something very simple.


    DM stole from LRH. He refused to handle ongoing legal so LRH could have the “all clear” most likely because it would have ended his career as money courier. The advent of the IAS turned out to be his cash cow.

    Just like gambling…it’s very addicting.

    John Stossel did a report on it which I found very illuminating.

  93. Mike —

    From the post by Jackson — just walking out the door, aside from being nearly impossible — unless REALLY figured out well — would probably mean a bullet to the back.

    I continue to be in shock.


  94. The first thing I thought of when I watched the Freedom mag video of Int was Theresienstadt. But at Int people are enslaved mentally as well as physically, and relatives on the outside are also kept in control through the forced disconnection policy.

  95. Marc Yager: A real Scientologist and a dedicated SO Executive.

    How can we ever claim his service to mankind back?

    It is heart breaking to hear his story.

    I came from afar and arrived to the top of the Bridge, I had the fortune to work and be in the same space of some of the “few good men” that carryed on their shoulders LRH’s mission to improve conditions on this planet.

    David Miscavige: Not a good man, a dangerous vindictive psychopath, thirsty of power and self indulgence.

    I recall the first time I came eye-to-eye with DM it was at the WB, I was a very young fellow and lower in the ranks, he gave me a look as if I were an insect. …I recall this very vividly….I did not feel but fear for the little chap… even though he was half my size.

    Meeting eye-to-eye with Yager. Lesevre or Mithoff was a different story some of us staff members that dealt with Marc Yager in the late 80’s and beginning 90’s know the gift Marc had. He was an on policy on source manager (i.e. one who manages by stats….not one that manages by whims like DM). Mr. Yager evals were based on real why….they were no blinds in it…..

    It was r-e-w-a-r-d-i-n-g being on Marc’s team and that goes for ED Int and Ray Mithoff.

    After the mid 90’s a following the GAT and the “New Era of Mis-management” Scientology Admin/Ethics/Tech went to pieces while the IAS became the new powerful money squeezing, crim-regging “dark side” substitute….there!

    I don’t know what is the current scene with these beings and many others that came in and were robbed of their soul at the hands of the evil-midget… but for god sake they must be salvaged and their service to mankind restored.

    And I would give anything to see that happen!


  96. Thank you Marty for your insight into Marc Yager. I was there when this all started to unfold. I think DM was most intimidated by all the IGs in the late 80’s early 90’s as they were all very respected and liked by the staff/public; DM had to destroy that. I think atleast 1 month at the shack would be great for Marc and Ray to be revitalized and destimulated!

  97. Michael,
    You said:

    “Theta is gathering. And drawing more theta.

    “Marc will one day come to us.”

    My own experiences with Marc haven’t been the best of either of our lives at times. However, people close to me and who have worked with him have mentioned his better sides and his skill very positively.

    Bulletproof/Ted H, has commented here that in proximity to DM, sometimes the worst in the best of us rears its dark head. I think that is, unfortunately, Marc Yeager’s personal crucible, his proximity to the madness.

    I would wonder why he appeared to me aloof, unhappy, and unable to just let loose. He seemed, to me anyway, on tenterhooks. He had a lack of ease in his manner that always seemed like he was looking over his shoulder, ready for a swat. When he laughed, it was a nervous laughter, not a release. At various times I just wanted to ask him, ‘what the hell is on your mind Marc that you’d be so tense’.

    Unfortunately, our last conversations weren’t ‘easy’ but rather part and parcel of the drama played out in Dave’s universe.

    I thought of the Route 2 process in Creation of Human Ability, R2-26, Remedy of Laughter, a process I ran on my twin, while in the RPF (and there directly due to an incident connected with Marc Yaeger) relative to him, frequently while at the Base.

    “The earliest known psychotherapy consisted of getting a patient to laugh. Laughter is rejection. A preclear being continually inflowed upon by the physical universe at length may find it difficult to reject anything. Getting him to reject something could be made an auditing goal. The best manifestation of this is laughter. Laughter includes both surprise and rejection. The
    individual is surprised into rejecting. In order to laugh, he must have laid aside some of his ability to predict. An individual who is serious has laid aside so much of his ability to predict that
    he now cannot be surprised into rejection. The anatomy of mystery consists of, in this order, unpredictability, confusion, and chaos covered up because it cannot be tolerated. Therefore, this is also the anatomy of problems. Problems always begin with an unpredictability, deteriorate into a confusion, and then if still unsolved become a mystery which is massed confusion. It will be observed that as a person falls further and further
    away from the ability to laugh he becomes more and more confused until at last he sees no points in any jokes, he sees only embarrassment when confronted by laughter, and the whole action of laughter itself escapes him.”

    (I referred Bill (newbie) on another thread here the other day to Data Series 10, it mentions laughter and rejection with examples.)

    Marc has been hounded, for decades, by an Aberrative Personality, as described in Professional Auditor’s Bulletin 13, On Human Behavior. He is PTS. He manifests it and is in the problem and mystery and withdrawal of a real connection to a real Suppressive Person. He goes into the same valence at times. Those times, and in direct connection and at the behest of David Miscavige, were several of the times that Marc and I ‘had it out’ so to speak.

    He was one of the last people I talked to following being declared and after my ex-wife had blown to come here, and had returned with Marty to the Base.

    I was beside myself with grief and turmoil and crushing pain. He laughed at me.

    Somehow, with Marc in particular and what occurred, I sensed the nervous rejection on his part, of what he was doing on that cycle.

    Somehow, from the body of theta maybe, I was given an insight and despite the cold, derisive laughter that night, I saw the future and the day when this being would need my help to deal with the ramifications of the destruction he was playing a part in.

    Michael, your words come from that same body of free theta that reached to me at that time. They convey the higher level of being that can change the dwindling spiral of hate returned for hate. They are compassion in reality. They are forgiveness in its purest form, not pity, but understanding of what compels men to do dark things.

    They aren’t a passive waiting for Marc to reach to us, but us reaching out to Marc.

    Thank you Michael. I sincerly sense that Marc is reaching back.

  98. That film, aptly named, orients one and all the Cold Chrome Steel of DM’s out-of valence. It has precious little to do with the anything else.

    Larry Anderson’s leaving has spared us all the necessity to watch it ever again.

  99. “David Miscavige: Not a good man, a dangerous vindictive psychopath, thirsty of power and self indulgence.

    I recall the first time I came eye-to-eye with DM it was at the WB, I was a very young fellow and lower in the ranks, he gave me a look as if I were an insect. …I recall this very vividly….I did not feel but fear for the little chap… even though he was half my size.”

    You had your eyes open.

  100. You are not wrong in this 1984 RTC video he says that he is.

  101. Just Me,
    Recently and as a result of study, auditing and looking while living, I am finally understanding and achieving one of the purposes that led me to read DMSMH and get on this wild ride.

    What struck me the most, that Saturday afternoon in my old bedroom at my father’s house in London, Ontario was the statement that the single source of human aberration had been isolated; the Reactive Mind.

    I have spent the following decades working to distinguish the manifestations and mechanics and the source of the single source of human aberration. In myself and now as I progress, in others, it is becoming more and more, clear.

    I understand how a being, natively good, can create the idea of evil, and how that being can become that idea. Of course, become an idea IS out of valence in its essence. But, the idea, so close to the being, so much like a being in its fineness, its ‘almost nothingness’, can be the first ‘something’ that one becomes.

    There IS a conspiracy fundamental to all of this: time.

    And you and I have conspired.

  102. Virgil Samms

    Chuck Beatty

    Chuck, this period you describe, was for me the most productive period for upper-middle management.

    Marc had me write the strategies for the Sea Org Orgs. I had to go uplines to get all of the writings of LRHs on these orgs. Int archives had what I needed. So I found LRH writings on the Sea Org orgs, their purposes, etc and wrote their strategies and implemented them.

    Then Marc trained me on evals. The first eval I did was done against the AOLA strategy and it put AOLA into a year and a half affluence and St Hill Size. GI was around $325K VSD per week. AOSHEU went St Hill Size with around $250K VSD per week and went St Hill Size. These orgs were rocking.

    The rest of the orgs went into affluence because of their strategies implemented in the same fashion. This is how smart the man is. He ran me and Henderson tough and smart.

    During that period I ran the Sea Org Orgs and FLB/FSO and Henderson ran the Scientology orgs. Marc had us flat our evaluating the orgs. We pumped out 20-25 evals at the time. Between the two of us we had Scientology Int in affluence at the time.

    And Mariette, it was a hoot having you as WDC SO at the time because we really kicked it.

    The only thing that killed it, that could have killed it was RTC. Jessie and Spike rolled into PAC and invalidated the crap out of all of the Captains telling them that the products they produced were garbage. That was the end of that affluence. AOSHUK, AOSH ANZO and AOSH EU all got similar treatments.

    I was really pissed. Imagine.


  103. Lucy James

    I became staff in CMO Int March 1986 shortly after LRH dropped the body. Marc Yaeger was Commanding Officer and had been for some years. I was impressed at what a well established organization CMO Int was and for the first time I witnessed LRH’s product officer, org officer esto system in action.

    I spent two months training at Int and felt privileged to train under some of the Messengers who held watch with LRH like Michele Yaeger, Julie Fisher, Janadair Swanson. Later, in 1989, I heard DM natter on numerous occasions about these stellar people who had worked directly for LRH, including Mike Rinder and Marc Yaeger. I found it very strange that these people had been allowed to work directly on LRH’s lines for years, were considered competent and reliable people by LRH, were successful at their jobs under LRH but now that DM was at the helm he was speaking very derogatorily about them. I knew then that he was jealous of their status — DM never stood watches with LRH, so unlike them was not a Watch Messenger and now never would be.

    Not only had Marc Yaeger worked as a Watch Messenger, his popularity was very high with Sea Org staff and public around the world along with Mike Rinder, Heber and Guillaume Lesevre.

    In 1990 there was a period where I worked directly under Marc Yaeger and what stood out most to me was that he cared (ul). He cared about SO staff, he cared about Class 5 org and mission staff, and he cared about the public at large. No Exec is perfect but I felt Marc was trying to stay true to LRH’s purposes.

    On one occasion I saw a justice cycle come across his lines. He gathered all of the data before he made any decision and he acted in an unbiased manner. Being up lines I also observed Marc Yaeger’s relationship with his wife Michele (a very lovely caring person) and they were truly in love with each other. This was something else DM did not have so sought to destroy.

    One by one I watched DM work to destroy the credibility of all Watch Messengers. This upset me tremendously. I did take action to try to intervene on their behalf but soon found myself on the RPF.

    In early 1991 I was sent to a Class 5 org, a penalty for wanting to have a child. I received several letters from Marc Yaeger and they were written with ARC, put my hat on as the ED and gave me sensible direction on what actions to take to expand my org. Compare that with what I experienced at the hands of DM just a few months earlier who ranted at me viciously when I was several months pregnant.

    Even out in the UK I was briefed that an eval had been done by Marc Yaeger and it handled all the cross orders coming into orgs including the IAS! For several months sanity reigned. Then I heard the eval was cancelled and the IAS again started making their demands on orgs. I saw London Org crumble and crash from such hara

  104. When Marc Yager married Michele Jaramillo (as others have commented here — one of the sweetest people you could ever meet), Dave “Hitler Youth” Miscavige said with great theatrics and heel of hand smacking against his forehead “Oh my God! Can you believe it? He actually married a Mexican! I can’t believe it! A fucking Mexican??! A Beaner??!”

    So, Sinar, you werent in bad company.

    He constantly called Barbara Ruiz (not the sweetest person you would ever want to meet!) when she was ED ASI — “that fucking Beaner Bitch” or “Beaner Whore”. Guillaume was “Cheese Eater” when he was being “kind and tender”, “frog faggot:” and other things when he wasnt. Kurt Weiland was “the Nazi” etc etc etc.

    Miscavige is a menace to Scientologists and to society at large. The days of the Little Dictator are fast drawing to a close.

  105. Michael

    This is touching, and true. Thanks for expressing it so well. Taking this viewpoint gives power to our best selves, and is, in the end, the only way to be free.

  106. Jim,

    Beautifully honest and compassionate communiation, reminds me very much of LRH.

  107. “It is so wrong to treat the top people like that”. I think Miscavige would agree with you, Chuck. The difference is where you each draw the line. He considers that he is the only ‘top person’ there.

  108. crashingupwards

    Hi Karen. Interesting thought you had. Theft from LRH or the SO certainly could be the basic on a chain. Propelling him to commit and justify more and more overts and pull in more and more motivators.

    There is certainly more to the case. And its easy to go whole track with sp stories. But sometimes the meat and potatoes are right there in front of you.

  109. crashingupwards

    Thanks Solace. Your add much perspective and history which gives us all a richer understanding of these men. Your name says it all.

  110. I will share with you something I found on the Friends of LRH site. This reminded me that LRH did give us a glimmer of what we need and can do.
    It is reference:
    HCO PL 22 July 1982 (Vol 0 p 555) KNOWLEDGE REPORTS
    Among the things covered in it I thought I would highlight something on the bottom of the first page.
    Begin fair use quote: “ To live at all, one has to exert some control over his equals as well as his juniors and (believe it or not) his superiors.” Then later on the last page:
    Another reference for your consideration: HCOB 2 May 1985 Responsibility, definition of(tech vol XIII p 16)
    Food for thought.

  111. DM Should you suffer the same fate as Gollum (being similar in nature) I wonder if I should have any compassion left for you.

  112. Great interview, puts out the proposition that evil conscienceless people dominate and cause the worlds major trends.

  113. Following up on the last thread where I posted the snips of an email letter I received, exposing the view of DM toward the ‘VIII’s’, and in reference to the IAS dona strat, the Ideal Org strat and all this MEST, I found a little bit of a PDC lecture this morning while looking for a reference.

    “…it’s much easier to get a great deal of money out of somebody who’s on a down spiral into becoming MEST that it is to get money out of somebody who is going on an up spiral toward becoming theta.”

    Maybe that’s why the constant pounding from DM for MEST, to make MEST out of beings, to demand your Sixth Dynamic be sacrificed to him.

    He can’t have the Bridge in place, because he’ll ‘lose customers’ when they go up.

    To those who have experienced this on the ship, while on your route, What We Expect of a Scientologist is the idea I espouse – you owe me nothing. I’d love to see you live fully and on all of your dynamics and I’ll have a better world for it.

  114. At least Hitler had the good sense to show actual people in his propaganda films enjoying themselves after a days worth of work.

  115. Freedom Fighter

    This was a drill?!! OMFG!! That’s bat-shit crazy!! This is the kind of crap gangs or the Mob do to test someone’s loyalty.

    I’m a trained marksman both in and out of the military and there’s NO WAY you would ever train like this except to either do some psychotic test of someone’s loyalty or because you have a psychotic disregard for the lives of others — or both. Damn!

    My heart was beating out of my chest reading this. The amount of adrenaline that courses through your veins in a situation like this — where you have to confront taking someone else’s life — no matter how justified it may seem at the time — to get that close to actually doing so and then realize this was a DRILL! OMFG!

    Anyone out there reading this who is still clinging to idea that DM is the “savior” of Scientology . . . THIS IS YOUR WAKE-UP CALL!! You can continue to goosestep to the beat or you can break ranks now, scrape together what’s left of your personal integrity and help put an end to this madness.

    Meesage to DM: this is REAL life, buddy, not some freakin’ Tom Cruise movie . . . snap out of it!

  116. All hail our most beloved Pope! A truly charming, kind and loving individual. COB, sir, we salute you. You are an inspiration to us all.

  117. *servicing the existing field for all its worth* Setting up dissemination as a war ?

    Alsoo it sounds like a bit of a cover up of why peoplereally stayed away in 83.

    Who of you heared that speech of Ron talked about in this video in the Orgs and did it sound real ?

  118. Freedom Fighter

    Bryon, that’s exactly what I thought too!

    For those who don’t know, Theresienstadt (city of Terezin in Czechoslavakia) was set up as a “model” concentration camp/ghetto by the Nazis where they could take Red Cross representatives and others to “prove” to them that the inmates were being treated “humanely”. It was very 1.1 and in no way represented what life was really like in the other concentration camps.

  119. “When my mom was declared, she actually did have some major outpoints, crimes or high crimes NO, but outpoints yes.”

    does it not make you feel awkward to pass judgement over your own mother ?

    I couldn’t care less how many outpoins she might have had.

    When it comes to your mother she is more important than Scientology or any other thing in life unless she did some horrible things to you wiich I think is not the case.

    “The moment a child is born, the mother is also born. She never existed before. The woman existed, but the mother, never. A mother is something absolutely new. ~Rajneesh”

  120. martyrathbun09

    Who are you, Dr Phil?

  121. Just a guy with a mother.

  122. The Chaplain

    Nice blog.

    There is a lot of goodness in the large majority of people who ever took part in the group in any way. If nothing else, almost all began with the most honorable of intentions.

    Anyone still sticking it out and putting up a fight “for the cause” could be considered at the very least “right” in their courage and loyalty. And perhaps a “friend”, worthy of an offer of a helping hand?

    In truth, the “enemy” is severely outnumbered.

    The Chaplain

    “I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.” Abraham Lincoln

  123. There was something that really bothered me in my days. It was the use of the phrase: make it go right. Or should I say the misuse of the phrase. Let me share what in summary it means as it is used now, as I see it.
    It is: make it go right = pass the buck, make it go right= I have no clue how to solve this problem you do it. Make it go right=I wash my hands of all responsibility and assign you full responsibility which means I will blame you if it fails.
    You get the idea.
    Perhaps it will be useful to, in my mind, reframe that phrase through some contrast.
    Make it go entheta, Make it go theta; Make it go enmest, make it go mest;
    Make it go good, make it go evil; Make it go correct, make it go incorrect;
    Make it go good outcome, make it go bad outcome.
    You get the idea.
    With this in mind let us see if we can Make it go right or the one I most like, make it go theta.
    Thank you, I feel better already

  124. Didn’t know on which post this datum fit, but I learned at the LRH Birthday event that the post of CO ILO (Int Liason Office – used to be FCB-Flag Command Bureaux) is vacant. Kirsti Wilhere was CO ILO and is apparently in the hole, and was not replaced. The post is beng held from above by the CO CMO IXU (Int Extension Unit). DM has headed up the international management org with someone who will execute his orders without question.
    Imagine an org without an ED or CO. Talk about negation of policy! The post has been vacant for two year.

  125. Marc, don’t let them do that to you!

  126. Dude,

    You asshole, you made me cry. Tears in both eyes. Seriously.

    Isn’t this a grand time we’re having? Not needing our bodies to accomplish certain ends. Reaching out as beings.

    Oops. There goes another tear rolling down my cheek. And a big smile.

  127. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"

    Mr. windhorse, Let me clarify one thing here. As long as I ran Security at the base, there was tight control in place as to where the guns were kept, how they were handled and who was authorized to use them and for what were they authorized to be used for. Unfortinately, there were two guards who had a hardon for carring them on their hips 24/7 while parading around the base doing inspections etc.. These two were part of a local PR Volunteer program with the Hemet Police. They were trained to assist with major traffic accident investigations, keeping murder/homocide scenes secured etc.. They were also trained, certified and liscensed to carry a sidearm. I am sorry to say that one of the two guards was Danny “Dunnitagain” Dunnagin. Allowing Danny into this position was a very very wrong move of mine. Forrest Gump was to JKF as Chf Wiggum (from the Simpson’s) is to Danny Dunnagin. Dunnitagain was a 100 loose cannons at rough seas. Danny himself knew it along with the rest of the base staff. The gun carrying guards held their grounds to do so until the fateful day that Danny almost shot himself in the foot with his own gun. Now as to your, and possibly others, concerns as to weather or not we would turn our guns on our own staff I can tell you this. NO WAY IN FREAKING HELL. NEVER NEVER NEVER – not on my watch. I also am very certain that the staff themselves were never concerned or fearful that I or any of the guards under my command would turn a gun against them — Jackson

  128. Solace,

    Very welcome insights.
    Above the fray.

  129. Just me,

    Long time ago, I was watching a nature special in which the natives trapped monkeys by putting some object or fruit inside a tree stump with a hole large enough for the monkey to put in his hand but not large enough for him to remove his fist with a grasped object. The monkey could release the object and go free, or he could remain trapped by holding on. They never let go. And the natives were able to just walk up and grab them.

    I don’t think the little monkey can let go. He’s got both fists around hundreds of millions of dollars and celebrities and fame. No one else counts but the little monkey. And the little monkey has been able to become king of the big monkeys by convincing the big monkeys to enforce his chatter. The little monkey couldn’t make any of the big monkeys do shit without lying to them. And the big monkeys would have him for lunch any time they choose.

    I can guarantee that there were lots of big monkeys that could have snapped the little monkey’s neck at any time. Only an idea held them back, not the ability. And the little monkey’s tiny flexed biceps wouldn’t have been enough to prevent this.

    But, sometimes, the sheer illogic of insanity makes us look elsewhere for a logical solution. It just fucking doesn’t make sense. But, the truth is, it’s just crazy. And logic doesn’t fit crazy very well.


  130. Lunamoth,

    I think one of the advantages of the internet is the extension of dimension points so we have more space in which to operate. I feel this connection to all of you–and it’s across all this space. That provides for a heady viewpoint that operates above my normal tendencies.

    And I like it.

  131. Thanks Mike,

    I’d forgotten about “beaner”. It was a term oft used by DM and Pat as well.

    Michelle was a good friend – she was cooking for LRH at WHQ, despite not being trained and persisted using cookbooks as her guidelines in April if ’78 and was a Messenger after that. I remember her being on watch – LRH was fond of her and she fits the other descriptions posted on this blog.

    In the early 80’s after LRH went off the lines – she was handling LRH’s traffic to the base, in that his “advices” would be handled by her and ensured people answered and complied to.

    Michelle and Marc were made to divorce some time in the 90’s by DM, I don’t know the reason for that, but she was quite shattered and changed after that. It is quite amazing what the little Dict. did and got away with doing, being the dear leader.

  132. From what now see, DM has replaced it with GAT metering tech in terms of “stress test” tables in front of Wal Marts and Videos in glitzy rooms.

  133. One thing about this failure to follow command intention or being CI that seems to be in vogue in the CoM these days that bothers me, and others. It tends to be an item that hangs in space. No real substance. It is tossed about.
    It is, as I see it currently used, it is following command intention of DM. FLUNK
    Following command intention is following LRH and all he put down in PL’s, bulletins, books and tapes. That is command intention and its SOURCE. The fact that DM has inserted himself between YOU and LRH is a major FLUNK.
    That anyone continues to allow that is an ongoing FLUNK. This is a message directly to you who are still in SO, you are the closest to the problem and the solution. Let LRH communicate directly to you through his bulletins and PL’s directly and you will know what to do and what the real Command intention is. DO NOT let me or anyone else tell you what is there, Especially DM. LOOK FOR YOURSELF without being manipulated or maneuvered.
    Some may say that LRH is absent, that after all he is dead for crying out loud.
    May I suggest that if you think this way that you have missed some very basic principles of the subject of Scientology. That your real BOSS IS and continues to be LRH and NOT DM.
    This positive change is still possible even with the amount of SP alteration of tech and policy so far. But this usurping and co-opting of LRH by DM has to stop and fast.
    Think of this, those of you in the SO still. how often do you see LRH’s daughter, DIANA.
    She is the daughter of LRH for crying out loud. Yet where is she, any events, promos, anything. NO..
    WHY IS THAT. She should be given the best of treatment, the most important ambassador for SCIENTOLOGY not DM SHE should be the face of SCIENTOLOGY,
    FOR GOD SAKE she should be the LEADER of SCIENTOLOGY , not DM, SHE has more RIGHT to that post than ANYONE aside from LRH himself. Think about it folks, and I for one would vote her in, in a heartbeat. This should be demanded now, DM should step down now. If anyone currently in the SO does not support this, than major FLUNK. Then you are not out for LRH you are not SO. If you have a better idea, get on this blog and let it be known.

  134. Joe,

    Yeah, I snuck out from Clearwater as the properties are widespread there.

    That is the false idea that the current inmates have. Also there is the idea that if you do get out the only thing you could do is “flip burgers” or get a minimum subsistence menial job in your ’50 -60’s age.

    Jeff lays it out perfectly in his “Counterfeit Dreams”, which will be out in book form in August.

  135. Theo Sismanides

    Jim, interesting yoiu mention Time as the conspiracy fundamental!!

    I just had some thoughts on this, too.

    Maybe we can extrapolate a bit on this.

  136. Conspiracy theories are an interesting phenomenon.
    To me they are, to some degree, similar to religions where there is an effort to assign cause to a hidden entity. When something is not comprehended, the thought is “something must have created this”. Whether it’s God or the Masons or the Trilateral Commission or the CIA and KGB, they are all efforts to answer the “who”.

  137. Quicksilver

    Hey Dan,

    Your line “Clearly, he had been suppressed out of existence by then. Like each of us, Marc is flawed”. I think is very telling and a key point in the transition from being connected to the church and being an Independent.

    For many of us, it is apparent that those years greatly affected our lives, viewpoints & relations with others. Despite the fact that most were all rowing in the same direction as part of a great team, this changed: close friends became enemies, public chastising (staff & public) decreased morale, & hopes & dreams were squashed. It is pretty heavy when you are told ‘Do this or you’re out of Scientology for eternity’.

    I do remember the derogatory statements about Mark Yeager and now it is being realized that maybe he wasn’t so bad a guy after all … actually he seemed quite an exceptional member of the group.

    I guess my point is that after leaving, it can sometimes take quite a while to get things straight in one’s own universe, let alone carrying on relations with others. It may also take a bit of time to destim & get a few sessions under one’s belt before a clearer view is apparent.

    Additionally, there is a whole new breed of younger SO members/staff members who are parroting what they see being done & said. I have no doubts that most of these have never really seen Scientology at work and how it actually does improve one’s life & that of others. These attitudes & modes of operating have so permeated the Scientology community that no one is immune … even public.

    Most of us have seen certain public handled in the most unprofessional rude fashion, it’s amazing so many stuck around … & these are the people we are here to help.

    Yes, DM and some others need to go & Will, but in the meantime, we need to extend our help to all who need it despite that fact there may have been upsets while on staff. After all, we were working towards the same goals in the 1st place.

  138. the-o,
    Umm, there may be a bit of dust on your lens. Janis sure didn’t know about this as I only mentioned it to Paul a few weeks ago:

    They had a Datsun 240Z fastback. Paul was thinking of selling it to Annie. She took me out for a test drive down Hwy 79 one night. She was driving, very, very fast. So fast, and with this funny little smile, that I actually got a little intimidated and frankly, a little scared of her. She whipped a U turn at the quail ranch on the highway, and tore off back towards Gilman Hot Springs as fast as we’d left it. At the very edge of the Gold property, which then was a desert area, after the flood that wrecked the originial golf course, she pulled off the pavement and onto a dirt path. OK, now I WAS scared. I didn’t know what was going to happen. Was this a ‘hit’? Had she been taken over by a ‘body snatcher’ and was I going to become a pod? What was she doing?!

    Down the dirt road she drove, slowed and pulled up between some old pine trees I think, out of sight of anyone. She turned off the car. Looked at me and told me to get in the back. Oh no!

    I looked back and what do you know, the small back seats were folded down and presented a large trunk type area. That’s where I was going to experience whatever it was she had in store.

    I climbed back. She followed.

    What proceeded was as close to ‘heavy petting’ (thank God she knew the actual limits of what Julie C had written) as could be. In fact, were it not for the fact we both were ‘over the moon’ in love, and hence on a ‘no gravity’ plane, I’m sure somebody would’ve thunk otherwise.

    Now, that happened in the CofS and Janis didn’t have a clue. Please, don’t tell her, OK?

  139. Tony DePhillips

    When I see what some Sea Org members have had to go through I don’t feel so bad about being duped out of a large quantity of money and the torment I experienced.


  140. RE: Diana — Diana had an enormous purpose to expand and disseminate scientology. She was able to think outside the box AND often did. Much to the dismay of her mother Mary Sue.

    Diana went around Mission Office World Wide (whose senior was GO WW – Jane Kember) in an effort to get the mission network OUT from under their tight fist.

    Sadly her secret operation was discovered because her communicator Sue Ribage warned Jane.

    Diana never regained her position even when she was posted at the Exec Strata level. Bill Franks for starters HATED her and wanted to do her in.

    Diana left the SO for a brief bit but was salvaged by daily auditing from Bruce Hines.

    That she is in prison at Int pains me. We were friends.

    I doubt she has played the piano in years and that must be sheer torture to her.

    Since the LAST thing dm wants is scientology to expand he would never let Diana leave. Plus people would listen to her, causing even more to leave. You can imagine the journalists who would love that story.

    It’s truly a big gd nightmare.


  141. Actually without a mother OR someone who cares for us at the time of birth and beyond — NONE of us would be here.


    Unlike other mammals, we cannot live without a mother.

    Therefore, one should honor their mother because of her nurturing during our helpless years.

    You could use discernment to see, later, that perhaps her actions were harmful and thus take measures to step away from her. But, honoring ones mother is a core principle in ALL religions.

    Not just Dr. Phil 🙂


  142. Tony DePhillips

    I’m sorry Cat but Marty nailed that one. That was a LOL!!

  143. Tom,

    You were good!

    Yea, the FB/FCB for a couple years there was doing pretty good. It was a little different from the older Apollo and the Clearwater FBs, for sure, and I think that whole period you were in Pgms, was at least being apprenticed by the Int terminals pulling FB staffers up for briefings, cramming, and evals and doing their program submission handlings, etc. There was a lot of hatting and apprenticing going on then.

    Nice solid period there. We had weekly Birthday Game rewards, whichever unit won got Sunday afternoon picnic/sports outing at Griffith Park. Somewhat normal libs for a lot of people. Calling home then was allowed without having someone from HCO listen in! Back then in the 1980s, the public pay phone in the complex lobby didn’t have PAC Base security cameras watching and eavesdropping, I don’t think.

    It was a looser nicer period.

    You did good on the Sea Org orgs Tom, I’d agree.

    That was a great apprenticing period wasn’t it, and Marc Yager DID read carefully and in detail, more than ED Int, the fine details in all my submissions on the org lines.

    He knew his stuff.

    Actually that whole submission process was pretty educational, for those who did the submissions and evals, and those who had to sign off on those submissions and evals, IF they read each sentence in detail in those submissions.

    Marc was literate and had a good grasp of policy.

    I think he let a lot of apprenticing of FB/FCB managers by their Int superiors, which helped I think. It seemed like pretty helpful apprenticing overall.


  144. Jim,

    Thanks for your thoughtful post to my musings. I really appreciate it.

    And as you implied in your post, before there IS (anything), there NOT IS.

    (sigh) … yet all those anythings are so fascinating, aren’t they? (sigh again)

    Just Me

    P.S. Hope you’re doing fine up there and enjoying the fine weather outdoors.

  145. Karen,

    Thanks for taking the time to notice my queation and share your thoughts. I’ll watch the video you attached (I like Stossel).

    Just Me

  146. Good point, Theo — you’re right. Even being critical of conspiracy theories is a bit of a hobbyhorse, isn’t it?

    You’re right that good investigation and evaluation tech is the way to see what hasn’t been seen yet or to interpret more correctly what has been misunderstood.

    Just Me

  147. The video done by the St Pete Times with Jackson’s interview referenced above as regards Marc Yager, if you have not seen it is at:

  148. Nightmares Getting Less

    Does anybody know what happened to Michelle Yaeger? From prior blogs and comments, it’s apparent they are no longer married.

  149. Martin,

    Not sure of any details – Steve Marlowe got in trouble in the late 90’s and was sent to Clearwater where he worked on fixing up film room and Audio visual for Gold at Flag – he was separated from his wife, Laura who was at Gold. They are out now and living in Arizona and Laura only connecting with other Non Scn friends & ex-es still Mestology controlled on Facebook.

  150. Doc "Smith"

    Thanks Mr. B,

    That is an incredible article/interview. I hope they do rewrite the data in a general public format because there is a lot of technical terminology already in their interview, and I suspect the original work is much worse, but the data is definitely worth working through, not just relating to DM, but to Bush, Hitler and other psychopaths; We need the knowledge of the trappers so they can’t keep doing this kind of thing.

  151. thanks Linda. DM uses policy to destroy, not just to stop.

    He’s using the ’59 policy that said leave posts vacant if they can’t be held incompetently.

    Well, LRH wrote a hell of a lot of solutions to that scenario which are hatting and apprenticing.

    This thread ties these points together.

    We all saw Marc Yager ensure his CMO Int saw to the building of the CMO Cont units, he saw to the apprenticing and hatting of the FB/FCB managers.

    And we see DM targetting Marc.

    Marc wrote a huge number of cramming orders over the years.

    People in CMO Int got hatted.

    I think he even was partly behind the whole Int Base Staff Statuses, to hat up the top management people for their WDC and Exec Strata and Snr C/S Int and Int Finance, LRH PPRO Int, positions.

    Had DM slipped on a banana peel years ago, and had CMO Int under Marc and Exec Strata under ED Int, been left to do what LRH said they should do, without DM playing his invented top dog role, things would have been different.

    I’d be happy to see any changes that make it all better however that occurs.

    The role DM has set into the movement, wasn’t even to even be such a role.

    It was supposed to be the Int Managers of CMO Int and Exec Strata who oversaw FB/FCB/ILO and thus manage the movement.

    DM wasn’t even to be what he has now made the members of the movement think is “normal.”

    There wasn’t supposed to be this dominating COB anything.

    There’s NO ASI traffic saying for COB ASI to be doing what DM is doing.

    There’s no RTC traffic saying COB RTC is to be doing what DM is doing today.

    He’s on a position that is NOT an LRH approved post at all.

    There was COB ASI traffic, I saw NO COB RTC traffic. There is no COB RTC traffic that I know of.

    His position of authority is total socipathic destructive rising to the top of the heap, making all believe it is valid, I see now.

    Hope Mike Rinder is correct and DM will soon start feeling some heat that gets him gone.

    The Marc Yager of the mid 1980s, were that Marc Yager to be rekindled, and ED Int to be rekindled, and reform the Int Management, start apprentincing, hatting, etc, that would all be a scene I wouldn’t disagree with seeing happen. Possibly some evals of RTC’s history, and sort that out per LRH admin policy, that would need to be done.

    The LRH admin writings are sitting out there laying it out, should anyone want those boots.

    I hate to put all this out here, since I think people just want the tech.

    And people coming to this site HAVE the tech, and they can help each other with the spiritual tech, so NONE of the admin stuff is gonna be needed.

    The admin stuff was for the LONG future.

    But with the internet, all the tech can be on the internet, and like Dan said, you don’t even need orgs, just a laptop.

    Maybe the internet as the source delivery tool, rather than “church” buildings, is the lowest cost most effective way, I would agree with Dan, and there’s no need to go all rebuild Int Management, I can see that train of logic of Dan’s, and I now see Marty’s point about how he thinks LRH might not even himself go whole hog to rebuild the churches internally to repair DM’s damage.

    All the stuff in the vaults, that LRH willed his personal wealth, he willed his money stash to CST, and to the preservation project. He was thinking long term about having the tech in imperishable form.

    Possibly, with the internet, and it being the “church” location, and possibly somehow if someone someday gets control of the top wealth devision making position, which DM has at present, that the decision to be made about the church’s accumulated wealth, to me, kinda should be:

    a) give the donations back to those who want their donations back

    b) leftover go to making staffs’ lives who want any financial restart money, give staff who want to quit a lump to restart their lives

    c) leftoever go to where LRH wanted HIS money to go, which is the vaults, and do it less extravagently, and once his tech is in imperishable form, then that fulfills his own final wishes for his own wealth.

    And let the churches that exist disband, sell the buildings, and with that wealth I guess maybe hold a convention, and let sane suggestions be voiced, and vote the most equitable thing to do with it, or give it as taxes to all the countries where Scientology dodged its taxes.

    And then Scientologists just use the internet databases that already have ALL of the Scientology tech that anyone will ever need to do the whole existing Bridge between themselves, all for free.

    don’t read the above. Don’t take any of these hairbrained suggestions seriously.


    Thanks Marty again for this forum.

  152. Nice one, Chaplain.


  153. To Jackson:

    It’s Ms. not Mr. 🙂

    However, I never thought that you or anyone else at Int during your watch would shoot a staff member. But, you aren’t there now, I trust. My comment was to Mike’s that he wished staff would just leave.

    To which I commented, with a great deal of hyperbole I grant you – that it would be with a gunshot to the back. (indicative of cowards, right)

    However, the FACT that there are guns and staff know it — then I think escaping becomes a much more difficult thing. How do THEY know, someone won’t shoot them.

    Ms. Windhorse 🙂

  154. War and Peace

    Chuck ~~

    Thanks for the nice anecdotes. You are one of those rare individuals that have good things to say about your RPF and Happy Valley.

    I think that shows how fair and objective your writings can be.

  155. Theo Sismanides

    Oh, come on Cat Daddy, go preach Psychology somewhere else. I am sorry you are not addressing GEs here. Mothers, fathers, babies etc and the procreation of the human species. You are addessing thetans and some hate their moms and some love their moms. Obviously you don’t know what I am talking about when I say “GEs”. But this is your life.

    You stick to Independents but you probably do not speak my language. You are welcome as far as I am concerned as long as I can have my objections to some of your utterances and thoughts. I wouldn’t expect you to study the GE or read the PDC lecture on it, so please accept my right to disagree with some data I consider false.

  156. Cliff the upstat

    Something for “just me” to consider

    1) You don’t have to be a nut to believe in a conspiracy.
    2) If secrecy, conspiracies, and plots would not exist, they would not be in any dictionary
    3) The evidence for something is not always just lying around for anybody to see
    4) Why does DM’s house of cards fall on his head? It’s so simple. You sure don’t have to be a conspiracy “nut” to explain this: OW sequence. He pulls it in. He mishandled people, misused money and denied Sea Org members to reproduce.
    5) He is not as smart as you think. If he would be smart, he would have not done what he has done.
    6) He doesn’t apply ethics to himself. He thinks he is above it.

  157. Martin Ottmann

    The individuals, who have escaped, could write affidavits, describing what they have experienced while being confined in Gilman. These affidavits could then be used to support a criminal complaint filed with the local or state authorities citing California Penal Code 236 “False Imprionment”.

    This is what the Penal Code says:

    “236. False imprisonment is the unlawful violation of the personal liberty of another.

    “236.1. (a) Any person who deprives or violates the personal liberty of another with the intent to effect or maintain a felony violation of Section 266, 266h, 266i, 267, 311.4, or 518, or to obtain forced labor or services, is guilty of human trafficking.

    “(b) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or five years.

    “(c) A violation of this section where the victim of the trafficking was under 18 years of age at the time of the commission of the offense is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six, or eight years.

    “(d) (1) For purposes of this section, unlawful deprivation or violation of the personal liberty of another includes substantial and sustained restriction of another’s liberty accomplished through
    fraud, deceit, coercion, violence, duress, menace, or threat of unlawful injury to the victim or to another person, under circumstances where the person receiving or apprehending the threat reasonably believes that it is likely that the person making the threat would carry it out.

    “(2) Duress includes knowingly destroying, concealing, removing, confiscating, or possessing any actual or purported passport or immigration document of the victim.

    “(e) For purposes of this section, ‘forced labor or services’ means labor or services that are performed or provided by a person and are obtained or maintained through force, fraud, or coercion, or equivalent conduct that would reasonably overbear the will of the person. […]”

  158. Quicksilver

    Ahh, Jim,

    Remedy for Laughter is exactly what I was thinking as I started to read your post … and then you mentioned it – just an excellent process!

    I’ve seen some real tense/solid cases cracked with that baby.

  159. windhorse you get me. No mothers no thetans eiter.


    Hubbard taught that the part of human beings with no conscience, is the Genetic Entity , or GE, which is basically a low level mind on the order of an animal.

  160. Marty and Tony, Touché

  161. Theo Sismanides

    Tom, amazing! Just amazing how “authority” (sheer force, RTC) rules in this world, even in Scientology. We will beat the shit out of them one of these days. No reason here, just beat them down, man, I am getting violent but I got outraged by that sabotage. What a piece of crap. Anyway, excuse my french and VWD on those high stats! At least now we know how stats crash. Look for RTC dogs!

  162. Over the years I dealt with several int execs. Marc Yager was the sanest among the lot. No He&R, a sane guy who had real ethics presence.

    Taught me a lot about policy. Too bad he has been suppressed into robotism. Marty, you’re right. With some decompression he would be a real great asset to any organization.


  163. Cliff the upstat

    The solution is being lawful. If somebody wants to leave, he will leave sooner or later. Do not suggest any unlawful ideas, Watching Eyes. Once people turn into “deprogrammers” or kidnappers, they are criminals under the law and people can’t be convinced against their own experience. Scientologists don’t suffer on Stockhausen Syndrome. We were in Scientology because we loved it – until the day a SP denied our rights – but not because we are mentally ill.
    It all has to do with personal experience: is it good, they stay, is it bad, they leave. It seems that as closer they come to DM as more likely they are leaving.

  164. War and Peace

    Solace ~~

    Thank you very much for this excellent posting.
    It is Sea Org History and you have a unique TimeTrack.

    How far this conduct is from LRH and his work is mind boggling. (Investigating, researching, studying in depth to find CRIMES of Senior Execs and punishing you because you didn’t find the dirt )

    Solace, your time track and posts will bring much to this BLOG. Please carry on !

  165. Ne Obliviscaris


    Long time no see. Glad your still alive.

    I agree with your assessment of Mr. Yager. To me, he was the ultimate “Ask a stupid question” guy.

    Despite his perceived “goofyness”, I immediately sussed him out as a highly logical, deep thinker who would always come up with the question that would make others groan and think to themselves, “Come on, your wasting time, (all the while filling in the blank with their own stupid answers) let’s get on with it”.

    I know that this secretly infuriated DM, the ultimate, “I’m the only Alpha-Dog in this pack”, “I’m the only one who gets paid to think around here” – kind of guy.

    Yet undaunted, Marc would go ahead and stick his neck out and ask those questions, bringing vital information containing the underlying reasons why – out into the open. He had a high necessity level for bringing about a conceptual understanding in others.

    The reason he would do this is simple, it is my own reason.

    Nothing on being right or wrong. It is because he wants the truth to come out. Because he cares about others having the truth.

    He may not have as much courage as you or Marty, but he made up for it with an uncanny “why finding” acumen and correct estimation.

    I recall a story that the OT VIII course sup once told me. Yager and some of the other Int Execs, (minus DM) had come to inspect the OT VIII course room on the Freewinds for the first time. The ventilation settings of the course room was such that it created a slight pressure differential with the passageway outside. The course sup told me that people were always mis-estimating the effort needed to close the door on the first try.

    Beginning the inspection, Yager was the first one to come through the door into the course room. During the inspection, the course sup told me that Yager was the only one who had any questions about any perceived outnesses during the “tour”.

    After the inspection was over, Yager was the last one out the door. As he exited, my friend the OT VIII Sup told me, (paraphrase) “Without even slowing down, he swung the door to – with the exact amount of force necessary for it to close with a gentle click”.

    Later, he returned to tell the course sup to get the ventilation balanced.

    I admire that kind of man. The kind of man who realizes the importance of all the little “Doingness Details” that are vital to the success of any organization.

    I hope he can join us soon.


  166. Once,


    Besides, you did it to me first. Hey, speaking of anchor points and space, I have a cabin in the woods on an Atlantic salmon river. It’s in the Highlands of Cape Breton Island. A moose knocked over the Little Red Stool House, but I fixed ‘er and planted it more firmly in the ground. Some of you guys like fishing, we’ll take Marc one day and I’ll show you all how to cast a fly line to salmo salar.

  167. Joy,

    My friend Don Bateman, a long time SO Member who was at the Apollo was also regged and made to buy some Special edition PDC cassette series so Gold could get the GI up for one particular week where it was crashed. I don’t know what he did with several of these he had to store, but it was a huge problem for him. Guys like Greg Hughes were regged for tons of ASI limited prints and the like.

  168. CD,

    The poster has every right to take an unbiased look at their mother and evaluate the facts. In this case, she had outpoints. So what?

    Better to see the person for what they really are and be OK with that than to have some held-down seven just because she is one’s mother.

    That is what Scientology is really all about – seeing truth. Your response seems to me to be you own tiny little version of the same stupid viewpoint that got us all into this current mess with DM.

  169. War and Peace


    ILO and CLO are pretty IMPOTENT. There is an “RTC REP” in the SO orgs, really running the show, bypassing all SO execs in the orgs, even ordering directly into HGCs on a bypass of the Captain of the Org.

    The RTC Rep is directly an execution arm of “Office of COB” (nowhere in green on white)

    Who needs a CO of ILO ?

  170. Once,
    Keeping this theme of mutual disdain betwixt us, this one is that kind of funny that just is impossible to laugh. It’s funnier than laughing can express. It’s a pucker your face kind of funny.

    I will have the picture of that little monkey, with his hand in a hollow of a tree as a pleasure moment which won’t erase. Hah!

  171. Quicksilver

    Whoa Jimmy … no dust on you, that’s fer shore

    Man, I was riveted to my screen reading your escapade… what a stroke of luck you were in that car seat, and an even bigger bonus when the back seats were already down!!

    No need for any unnecessary stretching & straining 😀

  172. “windhorse you get me. No mothers no thetans eiter.”

    I ment to say people.

    The earliest religions were matriarchal

    “It is generally accepted that in Prehistory the religions of the various peoples on Earth were Matriarchal Polytheism.[1][2]

    The Bible celebrates the victory of the patriarchal religion, embraced by the Hebrews, over the matriarchal religion, embraced by the Canaanites.”

    In the 1989 work The Civilization of the Goddess, archeologist Marija Gimbutas articulated the differences between the those civilizazion in the Old European system that, like the Canaanites, worshiped a matriarchal religion, and the Bronze Age Indo-European patriarchal (“androcratic”) culture which supplanted it. While the previous peoples were peaceful, the “androcratic”, or male-dominated, Kurgan peoples, on the other hand, invaded Europe and imposed upon its natives the hierarchical rule of male warriors. Such differences parallel those found by primatologist Frans de Waal, between Common Chimpanzee (male oriente, prone to violent conflicts) and Bonobos (sexually promiscuous, peaceful), both closest ancestors of humans.

  173. froghopper

    Mr B’s views and remarks regarding Diana
    are very correct . She needs protection what can done to support her and protect her some how ? Please reply to this who ever is reading and if you have any updated data on her and what she is doing please share this on this blog

  174. Solace,

    Thanks for the post, it adds to the whole picture.

    It also reminded me that partly, there was a games condition of a sort – who has the best mest: personal cars, personal stereo, and toys. I think that led to DM’s ungodly amount of toys and cars – to assuage this ego and vanity. Most staff at the Int base did not have cars and can’t afford the insurance.

    The games conditions involved Marc & his Mustang, Ray with his Porsche and custom audio, Guillaume with his BMW 745, Ronnie Miscavige with his BMW 540, Greg Hughes with his Thunderbird, etc.

    CMOI at one point had outfitted Marc with an Aerostar minivan so that Marc could be driven to LA and work in the back as exec’s time was vary valuable it had a Nakamichi sound system and custom upholstery and layout.

    This led to DM’s fully custom, armored van with complete leather interior including high tech communications, visual and sound systems etc. JB could elaborate on this – but part of this aberration stems from this type of games condition – which I believe started with who had the best wardrobe and was the best dressed as young messengers (DM and Marc).

  175. crashingupwards

    Windhorse, I recall Sue Rebbaj no longer being Diana’s comm, maybee thats why. Pretty outrageous for a communicator to betray the person they communicate for. I am surprised she didnt get RPF’d. Or did she? I am a little fuzzy on that. If she did it wasnt right away. Perhaps she got demoted for other reasons and then blew the whistle.
    Your posts are always interesting, grounded and show a sense of caring which I like.

  176. Cat Daddy,

    When it comes to our parents we have the right and privilege to honor them. But also keep in mind that the only thing we truly have in common with them (and our children for that matter), is our physical bodies. We may look like like them and have some of their mannerisms but we are ALL different beings.

    Remember, Hitler and Hussein were children (though I don’t believe that Hitler had any of his own) and that their parents were different. Hussein’s parents and himself were psychotic beyond belief. (Gee.. I wonder where Der ManSavage belongs in this Whole Track of ours?)

    Theo is right, you should try to understand the viewpoints from which Scientologists observe and know where and whom you really are.

    This is not meant as an invalidation to you Cat, just information to ponder and research.

    OTater 🙂

  177. “I doubt she has played the piano in years and that must be sheer torture to her.”

    And she played beautifully! When I got married in ’82, I recorded a piece from her “Lifetimes” album to accompany me on my walk down the aisle. It was a beautiful wedding and her music made it even more so.

  178. LOL, Jimbo!

    That bordered on the too much information type of post. Paul and Janis left in ’90 so much of the info she has gotten has been from old friends who stayed longer.

    The statement “She knows all about everything that ever happened anywhere in the CofS and if she doesn’t know it didn’t happen!” might not be quite correct if you’ve done the data series.

    But, what’s true is that prior to my marriage to my second Ex, DM would tell us “No fucking or sucking, OK?” whenever he saw us together.

  179. I love you too Splog

    “When it comes to our parents we have the right and privilege to honor them. But also keep in mind that the only thing we truly have in common with them (and our children for that matter), is our physical bodies. We may look like like them and have some of their mannerisms but we are ALL different beings.”

    OTater. I understand the whole thing. It makes me feel empty and sad inside. It feels so cold to me. It can be used on people inside the Church for family disconnection purposes and child molesters can say to themselves that the boy or girls thetan wanted it.

    I will be a Spirit by my own rules

  180. Most interesting, Jimbo.

    Had to run remedy of laughter on my twin who was a messenger in the RPF in ’78. We had all the coaudits happening in the tech space totally bullbaited.

    Had to also run 40 hours of op pro by dup as part of the program.

  181. No – Sue Rabaj left with her husband later.

    It wasn’t Sue who got RPFd but kinda/sorta Diana — although one doesn’t RPF (at that time at least) LRH’s daughter.

    Diana was pulled off post. Severely reprimanded and “handled” by Jane Kember.

    Don’t remember if it was the same time she was expecting Roanne, but somehow Diana was able to just segue off post, without much notice from staff or public.

    In any case, Nancy Many became A/CS6 at that time.

    As I recall.

    Sue Rabaj was no fan of me as I was one of Diana’s co-conspirators in this attempt to get the files from MOWW.

    John Woodruff was also shot from guns during this time – he was Mission Officer US as well as ED of the Orange County Mission (not yet an org at that time).

    We attempted a coup — and it failed.

    One of the reasons, I know from experience that a coup from the inside even today would never work. Someone will snitch you out — and you have NO CLUE who that might be.

    Better to topple the dictator from the outside.

    That has a hope of success.


  182. Jim,

    Sniff, sniff.

    I’m gonna retire in three years and I’ll most likely be looking for things to do like fixing up Moose damage. Until then, my wife would shoot me if I tried to cut into her time with me. For some reason I’ve yet to figure out, she loves me. Makes me wonder if there’s any sanity in this world.

  183. I also knew Diana in the 80s when she was married to music producer John Ryan, because of our shared musical interests and activities. She had lovely social skills, but seemed so … wistful, like she was half fish, half fowl and could never have the true life of either.

    I understand she and John are no longer married, but other than that I know nothing about her. I’ve read that she now writes CoS event speeches, but can’t confirm that.

    Just Me

  184. War and Peace

    It was Jon Horwich, Diana’s first husband that really touted the Nakamichi Sound System.
    Jon REALLY promoted it, he got me to acquire one for many hundreds of dollars.

    Jon Horwich also FLED the suppression, even leaving his daughter, LRH’s grand daughter behind.

    It would take a lot for a father to want to leave so bad, that he leaves his daughter at INT BASE.

  185. Oh jeez, I didn’t mean to say NOT IS precedes IS. I’m tired from working long days/nights lately.

    I’d like to say what I meant to say, but I’d probably get that wrong, too. I know you guys got my gist.

    As Roseannadanna used to say … never mind.

    Just Me

  186. The Benevolence of D(emonic) (M)iscreant:

  187. Pingback: Top Posts —

  188. OldOldtimerPeter


    The Finance police and the bang sec checks of your and other orgs did not come from Marc Yager but from the “International Finance dictator” Wendell Renolds. If I recall properly, Wendell’s senior was Marc Ingber and Ingber’s senior was DM.

    There were lots of financial irregularities in the orgs and missions already back then and it is an irony that DM is accused of so many financial irregularities.

  189. Just Me,
    I got it 🙂

  190. Sinar,
    I wrote this l’il adventure partially for the ‘oracle’ and partially to relay that those of us who were at Summer/Winter HQ and experienced those places actually, really and truly, and as ‘real’ as any person LIVED!

    I wouldn’t trade my life for anything. Warts, bs, failings, successes, the whole nine yards. I thank L. Ron Hubbard for this ridiculously, over-the-top flat out, ramparts crossed, chasms jumped and full on living life.

    This blog is a manifestation of full-on life. I’m spending way too much time having it too!

    And, though it may have been a little ‘too much info’ with your comment I sure hope some of those in OSA reading this, make that step and talk to that girl or boy, and have a romance to rival any novel. LIVE!!

    LRH sure did.

  191. WH,
    Diana is the being you know. Still. The epitome of grace. As much presence as any being I’ve ever met.

    She is so much more than DM could ever repress. Patience WH, you will again see your friend. So will I.

  192. LOL
    “The Wizard of Id!”
    Does the Kings stature in this comic strip remind you of anyone?

  193. Another Layer

    Thanks for your heartfelt write-up. I couldn’t agree more about the (dis)Orientation film … a good friend saw it and didn’t speak to me for a month! And forget her ever setting foot in an org again. Talk about epic disaster films.

  194. W&P,
    Jon H is a good friend of mine. Roanne, like Mark Fisher, was the flower girl at my wedding. I know you don’t mean to , but lest a mistake be made, Jon has worn his hat as father, to this date. Ro is now very much grown up, and is her own person.

  195. UnEnCucumbered

    Dateline: Phoenix, AZ

    Leader of CofScientology, Dave Mestgarbage — together with Kris Kobach — helps to pen Arizona’s SB 1070. “Do these shoes make me look illegal?” one man is heard asking the other.

  196. Just Me – she divorced John – he didn’t want to join the SO and Diana wanted to return. (as I recall).

    They were still married though in 1983, when my ex and I spent a year near East Grinstead. Diana very kindly invited us both to lunch – (my ex was unable to attend) but I went.

    John and Diana were staying in LRH’s home and I had lunch with them in the dining room, of St. Hill Manor.

    Then she took me around, showing me LRHs office, pointing out how they would have family time every evening after dinner (Mary Sue and LRH would eat alone together). And on Saturday evenings LRH showed films to the children on a 16 millimeter projector, in his office. Old sci-fi films etc.

    She showed me how LRH while creating the org board, would lay out 3×5 cards all over the floor of his study/office – constantly rearranging them until he felt he had it right.

    It was a very magical day for me.

    PS: I don’t think she writes dms speeches – I think Danny Sherman does. dms speeches lack poetry and heart – something Diana had no scarcity of.

  197. Another Layer

    Thank you for going through all of that, for NOT pulling that trigger, and for having the incredible sanity and courage to report it to us.

  198. From what others have posted, seemingly several of the Int Execs inherited money. Thereby, enabling them to buy some fancy cars/toys. Others, like Jeff Hawkins has mentioned perhaps didn’t inherit a huge amount, but enough to buy a car and be able to afford presents and things for his wife.

    Jon Horwich, for example, was always very wealthy coming from a very wealthy Chicago family.

    Ray Mithoff came from money and it wouldn’t surprise me if he either inherited during the late 80’s or 90’s OR his parents gave him money.

    dm’s parents had no money. His chance of inheriting a penny was zip.

    So — what’s an ego maniac to do? Oh — no problemo.

    Steal everything!

    And so he did.


  199. Mark,

    You wrote:

    “I have a theory however regarding DM and Marc Yager. When I left in Sept 1990, Yager was still IG Admin and overseeing the management of Scientology. DM needed Yager when RTC was reorganized in 1987 because factually DM did not have any international management experience whatsoever when he made himself COB RTC. After all, he had been basically running ASI and the Legal lines for several years, leaving the expansion of Scientology to Yager as WDC Chairman and Leserve as ED INT.”

    My take on DM and comparing DM’s rejects to the routing form submissions, he didn’t have a damn clue about policy in orgs, not a clue.

    Marc Yager at least had a much better understanding. And some of the older hand Exec Strata people knew policy pretty good.

    DM when I saw his input into the submissions I was working on to correct, for the routing forms project, his input was nil.

    Compared to the long detailed well reasoned crammings of Marc Yager, DM just was a rubber stamp on the routing forms submissoins, he signed off on them all I doubt he bothered to read 80% of the first generation routing forms submission. His initial was on dozens and there was NO cramming, no sensible comments, just the check mark, I guess for “seen” “no comment”.

    That was 1983, summer, when I first had to look at all the submissions for the first time, submission done by the first two rounds of the routing forms project. I came along on the 3rd round of that project misison. And Marc Yager scrutinized the routing forms and crammed me on almost every one of the final 91 or so submissions of those routing forms, in detail.

    But I’ve heard today, he in the last decade has gotten into long rambling rants on his rejections to submissions, and he is a complete admin stop on all submission. Long nauseating rejects which I guess you have to do lower conditions first, write up your OWs, M9 his ranting rejects, and then who knows what then resubmit.

    He’s a walking Soltan Gris or rather that other character from Mission Earth, the one who was the top boss nut.

    DM’s that Mission Earth top Emperor nut character.

  200. Dang Jim. You just ran a major process on me with that com. It is the universal solvent…that’s proof.

  201. freescn~You must’ve heard sooooo many times the supreme test policy Make it go right!
    Let’s see, how about the policy used to justify NOT following policy when policy gets in the way? My, how things can be twisted. Witness the current scene.

  202. Victoria~It sounds fake/made up. Who would ever think that could happen?! No way!

  203. Jim~That sure seemed like a love/hate deal. Glad you lived. ;^)

  204. Just Me~Perfecto mundo.

  205. “The hatred and hypocrisy of Miscavige is hard to fathom. There are so many incidents that I dont recall half of them, but every now and then I am reminded of another.”
    The hatred and hypocrisy is overwhelming to read about…I can’t imagine being there live and in person! Holy Shit!

  206. I was thinking the same thing.
    The fear factor gets magnified significantly with gun-toting going on. If you’re already on DM’s shitlist then why wouldn’t they shoot you?
    And if me and a few guys were contractors and got in to get them out, would they shoot us even though we aren’t armed?
    Who are they allowed to shoot?

  207. Packman~Quick note right at the spot…
    Me? I’ve always been an Angel. ;^)

  208. Excellent points. I’d imagine DM has only commendations and such in his ethics folder and only a few PC folders too.
    It’s nice to hear about Mr. Yager’s just handlings. Thanks.

  209. How about one of my BFFs who was on OT7 and to get away from the weird deeds of our new mission holders…joined the S.O. at Flag, gave them all her money because she was promised they’d keep her on the level and get her through OT8…
    I doubt that ever happened.
    Now I’ll have to find out.

  210. thecountesskrak


    You aren’t far with the similarities, his own mother nicknamed him Lil H—-r.

  211. Joe Howard

    I’ve been told by a former WDC member who worked under Yager as WDC Chairman from 84 through 86 that he generally wanted to see his juniors do well on their posts and was helpful. At that time, DM was in LA at ASI and Marc was probably left alone more or less to do his job. Also, LRH was on the lines and stat analyses went up to him each week. I’ll be Marc longs for those days again. (The Int stats were going up during that time as well, so I guess we all long for those days.)

  212. Joe Howard

    For those who don’t know Danny Dunnagin, think Barney Fife from the Andy Griffith Show and you’ll be close enough.

  213. Joe Howard

    Sinar, You forgot my ’67 Buick Electra, the Int Base’s version of the Deathmobile! For years it served as the after hours bus for base staff, since I was usually off schedule.

  214. Theo Sismanides

    Cat Daddy, I get you. I can understand the lonelines s and coldness but this is no due to lack of mother only. It is the coldness of a MEST universe.

    This universe is cruel. Mothers can be cruel too. That they give birth to bodies does not mean they are the heavenly beings we would like to. In many cases that has not been the case.

    On the other hand there are women, who are no mothers who deserved to be because they are so gentle and caring. Life is a bit of a bitch from the viewpoint of just MEST (and that includes bodies and births and babies and mothers as birth giving organisms). It takes love and care to move a person up. My mother used to care for my body well being and my formal education. Didn’t care and never actively supported my spiritual quest. I respect her for what she did but I see the thetan is not exactly there.

    If you study the GE (which I whole heartedly urge you to do) you will see it’s not just a mind of low order. The GE is a thetan. I don’t know if you have that piece of data. It’s a thetan but a degraded one. It just performs certain functions for the body, is interested in food, sex and procreation and is tied up into families. Nothing wrong with that but I have read amazing stuff from Ron on it and when I observed people who wouldn’t real dig it on spiritualism and such stuff I made the thought that it might be that the GE is IN CHARGE and not the Thetan.

    This is the horrifying thing. In that PDC lecture about the GE LRH says let it rule and it will send you to sleep at a hotel. It will be the boss and you will not be able to enter your house. Amazing! I see people like that. They sleep just outside their own house and their children are inside and the GE is cooking something good inside the house which smells really good and puts the children to a loooong, looong sleep. No theta there in the house. Just a coldness and a loneliness. What I saw in Scientolgoy was a bunch of caring, interested, warm thetans. Especially in the Sea Org. This is why I am doing this. We had nothign to do as a family, we were no family but we were soemthing more. We had stronger ties than a family unit.

    So don’t just be by you own. You are welcome here. And if we are going to speak the same language, it’s going to be great. I am not going to speak Greek and you not Dutch (I think you are Dutch, right?). Imagine we would do that, me Greek, you Dutch. What understanding would be there for us? That’s what I am saying. It’s not that I hate mothers or don’t respect them or not love them. They are a pilar in this society. There are other pilars too and mothers also need to be thetans, not just care for bodies.

  215. Joe Howard

    When Yager was banished to the swamp, Michelle was heavily pressured to divorce him and eventually caved and did so. She’s still at the base. I forget what she was doing when I left in late 2003.

  216. Concerned Citizen

    WH and Cat Daddy, The Way to Happiness precept states

    “Honor your Parents” and I do, though both of mine are very very crazy and have done many things that resulted in trouble and upset. I do judge their actions, but always honor them for who they are and what they did do for me.

    That I am able to judge wether their actions are good or not in my opinion does not preclude the honor I feel for them. But if I did not judge some of their advice for example, I might have made a mess of my life.

    They are well intentioned people, who are very misguided, that is all.

    Now an SP is an SP no matter what relationship
    they have to you, Can you imagine having David Miscavige as a mother? I’ve seen it and that kind of personality destroys lives everywhere they go. So infinity valued logic is our friend once again.

  217. Dan, She was a proofreader in Rcomps!! Still the nicest woman you will ever meet. I used to go up and proofread your copy with her and then just hang and chat and get stories about her working with LRH and the costumes they used to wear while in Hemet on shopping trips!

    I do not want to overstate it but Michelle has to be the nicest person I think I ever met and it is hard to imagine she is still there.


  218. WH — Those speeches are classic Shermanspeak. NOT Diana. Anytime you hear “Given that…” “Which is to say…” “Not to mention…” “And what that means…” along with strings of over-the-top adjectives, you are dealing with a Dan Sherman speech (there are plenty of other trademarks, but anyone who has heard a bunch of the rambling blah blah knows them when they hear them — just like that famous definition of pornography).

  219. Chuck,

    Jan Golden was the Org Board & Stats Project I/C. It was run as a mission under Paul Grady – Action Chief CMOI. Jan Married Paul Kellerhauls while she was on the Project. I belive PK was the base D/Security Chief at the time and Kenny Seybold was Security Chief. Jan had to study a mountain of data on this project to produce a product and create a CSW submission package. This also was the in days of type writers, white out and correction tape. It was during this mission when computers arrived on base.

  220. Jim, great observation, and great snippet from the PDC.

    Also, I certainly received REVERSE “What We Expect of a Scientologist” on the Ship. Couldn’t have been more obvious that PL is no longer “in use.”

    Ha. But they can’t stop me from applying it now.

  221. There was an event many years ago that was to help support MSH in her defense with the government. I believe this one was in Century City(LA), CA This was a precursor to the IAS. Raise money for defense. I recall there were those who stood up with considerable passion making an oath that if a hair on her head was damaged in any way, there was hell to pay. Yet for all that posturing, it turns out that the real crime did not come from the government, but from scientologists and SO members at the direct command of DM who betrayed LRH in their treatment of MSH. She died a prisoner of DM. Where are those same outraged Scientologist and SO members that were at that event, then and now. What a massive betrayal of MSH, LRH and all of scientology at the hands of DM. DM has degraded all of scientology, the SO, and the memory and legacy of LRH. DM is the Scientology equivalent of Judas(as aside who is paying his 30 pieces of silver this time) . anyone recognize the whole track signature?
    Those of you still in the SO have a DUTY to put in ethics on DM. I would not want to be in the shoes of any SO member that then or now would move against MSH, Diana or in any way harmed her or imprisoned her. After all there were many who gave a powerful oath in support of MSH, I would not doubt for an instant that it would include Diana. Justice will come. What will you claim when it does. Who is the true leader of Scientology. LRH. Who is its rightful leader in his absence. Diana. Who could stand and say anything else. Who could go on a meter and claim anything else. Who would convince you of anyone else. Where is YOUR personal integrity. Where does YOUR SO loyalty lay. With DM or Diana.
    Your move.

  222. Theo, I am dutch Thank you for your eleborate and honest reply. I can see the clean cut beuty of the whole proposition.

    “This is the horrifying thing. In that PDC lecture about the GE LRH says let it rule and it will send you to sleep at a hotel. It will be the boss and you will not be able to enter your house. Amazing! ”

    Yes I came across that on the internet and I thought why would a beast not return to its own “cave”(home) but whip out a credit card to stay at a hotel.

    GENETIC ENTITY, 1. that beingness not dissimilar to the thetan which has carried forward and developed the body from its earliest moments along the evolutionary line on earth and which, through experience, necessity and natural selection, has employed the counter-efforts of the environment to fashion an organism of the type best fitted for survival, limited only by the abilities of the genetic entity. The goal of the genetic entity is survival on a much grosser plane of materiality. (Scn 8-8008, p. 8) 2. formerly referred to as the somatic mind. It has no real personality, it is not the “I” of the body.

    There is a bit of Freud in there.

    alsoo can follow Thetan as a Spirit with as source on that the greek philosophers. (Man is a Spirit and has a body)
    I can follow the whole Kit and Kaboodle.

    I can have that viewpoint.

    I agree that there are “non”parents.

    I do not regard the Universe as cruel though but as Indifferent. It just IS, it exists.

    I think I reacted too vigorisely when the terms “outpoints” and mother fell in the same sentence. That is a punishible thing in the “church”.

    I wish for all the disconnected families to be reunited againg including Everybody here.

    David Miscavige as a mother will eat his own children methaphoricly speeking.

  223. *Grins* I would like an Italian Scientologist’s view on “mother”

    Oh yes I went there :p

  224. McGwire,

    Thanks for the update – she’s a good friend.

    I do remember about those days at “X”. LRH was living in Hemet, 6 miles away from the Int Base and we were all supposed to not be recognized by any Base crew which might be encountered in those “shopping” trips.

    He would go to the Base to direct shooting of Tech films frequently.

  225. With all respect to Diana, I would not accept her as as the true leader of Scientology, without looking at her qualifications beyond her birthname. This is not a monarchy. It should be a meritocracy.

    Make no mistake, this is not an endorsement of DM.

  226. Mac, you’re right. Proofreader in Comps. Thanks.

  227. BTW, I knew her from our days at the Berkeley Mission in the early 70s. She was sweet then, sweet when I knew her at the base for 27 years and, by extrapolation, is sweet today. A very, very fine person.

  228. Alexis de Tocqueville

    Humiliation. Incarceration. Privation. Near starvation.
    Sounds. Like. Gaza

  229. Marty, This dredged up so many memories I had to take a break from the boards for a couple days. One of my biggest heartbreaks was witnessing what happened with Marc, and Michelle. When I first arrived at RTC (pre-DM) Marc was WDC Chairman and CO CMO Int. Michelle was “RTL” (Ron’s Traffic Liaison, and yes, it meant that. What trust. Maybe that’s why DM had it in for her too.)

    Although I was in RTC and we were supposed to be “above it all”, I respected Marc and Michelle. They were clearly experienced and devoted, and cared. I was actually somewhat in awe. Hell, they had way more under their belt than I could hope for!

    By the time I left in 2002, Marc was one of the persons I most wanted to avoid. Because I had experienced first hand how he had become some sort of a Chuckie-doll puppet. He “ran” me on a mission at one point. I will not even re-hash the details but this was not, not, not the MY I had known back in the 80s. That project was a deciding factor in my leaving the SO. It caused more turmoil and misery in my universe than just about any other thing I can think of in my life. Yet throughout this time period, I couldn’t get it out of my head that “this is not Marc. He’s caving in to the pressure.”

    I hope one day they can both stand up and walk freely.

  230. Clever covert DA attempt of the daughter of the founder LRH. Maybe you should look at her qualifications beyond her birth name, and look, before you tacitly support DM.
    She was born into Scientology, lived and breathed it at the side of her father, the very founder of the very subject you seem to support. She has been at the cutting edge of all that has gone on in Scientology from pretty much the beginning. She has been in Scientology, and the SO for nearly all of her life, along with other accomplishments as well, which you seem to be unaware of any of it. Then you question her qualifications. Sir, Her qualifications exceed any current SO member anywhere. That includes DM in the extreme, since he is not even SO member, he is an infiltrating enemy agent imposter. All his orders are void Ab initio.
    How many others out there wish to challenge Diana’s qualifications with more covert or overt DA material.

  231. Concerned Citizen

    Standard policy and how to
    A) Reverse this mess,
    B) locate the real whys and whos – very dangerous if you are DM,
    C) Get orgs to produce the OTs and Auditors they are supposed to be producing. All very dangerous from DM’s perspective.

  232. It would be a bitter ethics pill to swallow for all of scientology if Diana were to suffer the same fate as LRH and MSH all at the orders of DM and those who would dare call themselves scientologists and SO members who where the enablers of this SP.
    If any one of you out there have any direct com lines to JT or TC or Jenna or any other celebrity or other opinion leader. Get them to demand that they see face to face Diana, and report if she looks well, and while they are at it have them ask her how Heber Jentzsch and the others are doing as well. Demand that she be seen at live events in person. Before it is too late, and DM finishes his final coup d’état.

  233. froghopper

    Mr Bs views dated 1st-june 2010 very very important.Please all help to try and get a connection to Diana some how or a reliable source that has seen her , if a chance to communciate observe how she response she may be very very desperate , but dont take anything for granted, ask her what she needs
    and what help she wants get it out to a reliable source to get her out of there .Who has a connection to Suzette Does any one know is Susette has any contact with her sister at all, its
    vital to get a comm line to her, or a one else , I dont know who is JT.or TC but Joyce Pohman might know something if she is alive why simply she has or had been in touch with the family quite a bit..What ever help can be done to get data and reliable at that of the state of Diana and inform >WE need to get her out.

  234. There is a protocol in the SO that when you talk to a commodore messenger you are talking directly to LRH. Mind you this is not DM. But LRH. It is questionable that this post would still be active unless LRH was to be here himself, so it would appear to be co-opted by DM. Also keep in mind that Diana is the surviving daughter of LRH in reality she would be the ultimate commodores messenger, and anyone in the SO including and especially DM should respond to her in a way commensurate with a true Commodores’ messenger and speaking directly with LRH showing complete and totally respect in action and deed. If anyone in the SO from DM down does not, well, let’s say that there will be hell to pay for anyone who would abuse or in any way show maltreatment by anyone from DM on down or any one obeying any illegal orders including DM is without a doubt will experience some ethics conditions. If any one were to treat her in anything less than total respect would without a doubt be showing their true colors, all masks and pretense removed no longer able to pretend to be in alignment with the true principals of scientology.

  235. JT= John Travaolta,
    TC= Tom Cruise,
    Jenna=Jenna Elfman.
    All high profile scientology celebrities.

  236. froghopper

    Mr B thks for clarfication to JT TC of course
    the third EF never knew her.
    Dear Diana
    what can we do to help her , who knows what can be done to get the data of her state of mind , and physical aswell, Suzette who knows how to get in touch with her for data .?
    What happened to the house of MSH’s is it sold .We need to put some empfies on getting Diana in safe hands. Who can help what leads?
    Marc Yaeger seems a lot of talk on him, and we need to get in there some how . please respond on what reliable assitance for reliable datra on both mental and physical states of min and how can they be helped.

  237. MockingJay

    Lighten Up Mr. B. I am not DAing Diana. I have the utmost respect for her and think she should be cherished.

    Maybe you should word clear this statement, “Make no mistake, this is not an endorsement of DM.”

    You should also word clear DA.

    My main question regarding Diana leading the church is her current state of mind and as I recall she is not auditor trained. I think any Scn leader should be OEC/FEBC/Data Evaluator and at least Class VI if not Class VIII.

    DM has no quals whatsoever and is insane.

  238. Sylvia Sedwall

    Most times our “enemies” are just those whose stories we’ve yet to hear. 😉

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