Abuse of Legal Process

The story linked here is a real time example of how Miscavige (and yes Miscavige engineered every illegal step of it) uses money to abuse the rights of people and prevent them from any possibility of recourse.   Mark my words, if Miscavige doesn’t back off on this now this saga is going to get a whole lot more ugly before it is over.


159 responses to “Abuse of Legal Process

  1. Here’s hoping Miscavige footbullets himself into your messiest disclosure ever, sir.

  2. David Miscavige appointed himself as “Chairman of the Board” in a ruthless quest for Power.
    He ABUSES the legal process, He ABUSES individual Sea Org members by beatings, assault and battery, he ABUSES families by enforced disconnections or marraiges and of parent/child and other family relationships, he ABUSES his power over the REVENUES of Scientology by living like a Head of State.
    +++++ He gives these INT EVENT speeches with a perfect tan, perfect hairdo, with his perfect Evil Intentions tucked away and hidden well out of sight. …… The taking down of all INT EXECs
    and LRH legacy slowly on a gradient piece by piece not in hiding, but right in plain sight ~~ quite an accomplishment.
    ++++++Those still in DM’s cult drinking the Koolaid, still don’t know what hit them.
    Miscavige has a talent for making you think he’s on your side,
    expanding the “Religion” of Scientology, opening more Real Estate to deliver while choking you in session by denying your floating needle with his new definition and escalating Ethics for the slightest connection with those that read the Truth on the web.

    ++++++ David Miscavige has a ruthless quest for power. He could care less what lives he attempts to destroy on the way.
    He did not appoint himself as “the leader at the helm”, “The Pope of Scientology” to further the dreams of LRH
    but to dismantle tech and policy and enforce his own “know best” .
    He has accomplished this by decimating every level of management beneath him, abusing INT EXecs to the level of torture, while he himself lives as a Rock star with all the perks the privileges of a Head of State.
    He invented something called “Provisional SP Declare” where he uses Psych Ops to the Execs at INT he has declared SP
    while making them slave labor for him, while declared SP !

    ++++++. Every now and again, in every century there comes along a person who attains a point of Power with a Dark Heart and Iron Hand.
    Those on the outer perimeters feel the trickle down effect and sense something is very wrong.
    Those up close ~ for whatever length of time ~ as many posters on this blog
    go through what Marty calls “The Valley of the Shadow of Death.” But when they rise up again
    they are stronger, wiser, empowered, indeed enabled to tell the scene of what occurred and how they made it through it……

  3. I hope it does get a lot more ugly, and the entire cover-up and secret dealings in the McPherson case have the light of truth shined on them. This could make previous whistle-blowing look like patty-caking if my analysis of it is correct.

    It goes well beyond the confidential agreement reached in the civil case and how much was paid to the McPherson estate to settle. Let’s start with the PIs and harassment put on Medical Examiner Joan Wood which apparently resulted in blackmail sufficient enough to prompt her to change her coroner’s report on McPherson from incriminating to benign, effectively ending the criminal case against the church for two felonies including abuse of a disabled adult. I’d like to know why she decided putting an end to her own harassment was more important than Lisa McPherson’s life and justice being served. I have nothing but contempt for her.

    “But Scientology’s attacks were not confined to legal filings. According to Lee Strope of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the Church placed Dr. Wood under constant surveillance. As a result, Scientology discovered something about the coroner that Assistant State Attorney Doug Crow described as “extremely damaging to Wood’s office and her career.” Finally, under pressure from the surveillance and a lawsuit filed by the Church, Dr. Wood began to change her autopsy results. First she changed the cause of death from “undetermined” to “accidental,” then to “homicide,” but then back to “accidental.” When asked to explain her changes, she contradicted herself within a few sentences.”


    So in addition to Abuse of Legal Process, I see Perverting the Course of Justice, which carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

  4. planetaryclearing

    better if DM digs himself in deeper so when it comes crashing there will be no question about his crimes being real for one and all. Dont back off DM – go deeper!

  5. The wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind.

  6. Scott Campbell


    Thank you for this post and everything you do to keep us informed about the latest in the nefarious doings of the C of S.

    I just want to let you know that your posts are and have been very important to me in piecing together my fractured track and experiences (good and bad) in the church.

    I’m constantly gaining a better understanding of how things can go awry under the seemingly unconfrontable audacity of the BIG LIE and the consequent abandonment of one’s critical thinking skills.

    As a nation, we had to confront and handle it with Hitler during WWII.

    As Scientologists, you are helping us to confront and handle it now.

    In consideration of the reach and withdraw you running us on. I thought about all of the fantastic books you have recommended to us. I’m currently reading the Tao. Little bits at a time with plenty of contemplation and havingness in between is what works best for me in gaining a conceptual understanding of this seminal work.

    After looking at the link on your post tonight, I considered it in contrast to your previous post about Tom Paine and The Age of Reason.

    It made me ask, “What is it that I admire so much about this guy?” (Marty)

    Just then I thought, “Oh, I was just reading about that in the Tao!”

    It was:

    “Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men, doesn’t try to force issues or defeat enemies by force of arms. For every force there is a counterforce. Violence, even well intentioned , always rebounds upon itself.”

    In this, you are the Master.

    Though expert in the prosecution of war, and tested fearless in battle…

    You are still yet unafraid to put down the sword.

    This benevolence is what I admire most in you, Marty. And I have every confidence that your fondest hope shall obtain in our universe. Thank you.

    That’s the Marty that I admire.

    This is the Marty that I love:


  7. ” ‘I’ve read it, Mr. Potter, and I think not,’ Merryday said, then glared at the church’s attorney and snapped, ‘Don’t look at me with that look of unbelief, Mr. Potter.’ Potter mumbled an apology.”

    Ha ha ha. Would that be Harry Potter?

    Funniest line in the whole comedy of desperate shenanigans.

    Does the 80 year old circuit judge have a long white beard like Dumbledore?

  8. I second this motion. If he digs deep enough he will eventually “fall through”

  9. Karen #1, you certainly have a way with words! You are to be respected. Thank you for what you do.

    Love Carol

  10. There are still a lot of questions unanswered in the Lisa McPherson criminal probe.

    Like who the auditors were, who the C/S was, who were the people who ran the “baby-watch” on her and why did they disappear and never make their eye-witness statements to the police?

    Also -where are the last three days of baby-watch logs and what exactly did they say?

    Marty? Can you please give us the answers to these questions?

    You have said that you had evidence destroyed in the Lisa McPherson criminal case.

    When will you finally tell the world what you know?

  11. It is really creepy that a “church” is playing dirty in the courtroom. It doesn’t seem that Christians or Buddhists would resort to these tactics. Let’s see what LRH has to say.

    “The purpose of a lawsuit is to harass and discourage rather than
    to win…. Don’t ever defend. Always attack. Find or manufacture
    enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace. Originate
    a black PR campaign to destroy the person’s repute and to discredit
    them so thoroughly they will be ostracized…”

    “The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, will knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”

    — A Manual on the Dissemination of Material (1955) by L. Ron Hubbard.

    Um … Oops. Well, you can’t complain that they are not doing what Ron said.

  12. Trouble Shooter

    Wow, this is the kind of article we (Scientologists) aren’t “allowed” to read. Who amongst the “good” Scientologists even knew the Church had to pay a wrongful death settlement on the McPherson case?! I’ll bet a few people learned about it for the first time from this article.

    It was only after I had my own taste of how this op basis had become the op basis used internally that I realized it had been for some time across the span of SO, Class V staff and even it’s public. That’s when I realized our Church had become a cult as the “bad guys” had been saying and which we used to laugh and shake our heads at. I would rather have swallowed nails than have that realization.

    I look over the fence and see those still in ceremoniously standing up and clapping to join the dins of “hurray!!!” for this kind of “victory” at an event.

    The ‘blind leading the blind’ seems fitting here.

    I used to look at the Mission Earth series from inside the Church outward at parts of our society and see the parallels. When truth became stranger than fiction for me within my own Church I knew there was no going back.

    It’s easy for me to shout “RIP the curtains DOWN and expose the evil wizard NOW for CHRISTSAKE!” because I’m not on the front lines experiencing the suppression for doing what you are nor for the legalities or expenses connected with how this gets done. But the False PR machine is a well-oiled machine that pumps out DMs “command inventions” practically on automatic now and it’s being driven actually by this blog. E.G. the destruction of management, the loss of survey tech, the failure to make auditors – I’ve never seen as many surveys being sent out on email lines over the last several months as has been since it’s loss of use was brought to light. I’ve now received more AUDITORS WANTED promo pieces in the last several months than I have in the last several years. DM is countering the data he’s seeing on this blog and then pumping out the opposite message. It’s become a game for me to predict the next promo piece or email I get.

    I’ll continue to keep the concepts of freedom alive in my zone and continue to talk this up so as to turn the heads away from Command Invention’s False PR machine but if there is anything I can do to help speed up the curtain being RIPPED DOWN you know how to reach me Marty. Please ask if you think of some other help I could be.


  13. Marty-

    Justice can’t come soon enough to the (D)epraved (M)igit. Here’s a little snippet I stumbled upon at youtube about him. Newcomers may not have seen this.

    Thanks for all you do.


  14. I’m not a philosophical scholar by any means, but I came across this observation by Edmund Burke:
    “when bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

  15. Latest rumor has it that Miscavage is plowing and paving a runway through the golf course greens at the int base, with orders to have a leer jet standing by with half a ton of gold on board, and enough fuel to reach south America .

    Okay. I just made that up.

  16. Hi Marty,
    It seems to me that by insisting that the settlement in the McPherson prevents Mr. Dandar from participating in any lawsuits against CO$, this opens the door a bit to get the McPherson case documents unsealed. Again, if this is the case, then DM’s meddling in these legal machinations will only put the light of day on a very sordid affair. One more example of his micro managing expertise…Vicki

  17. Flag is a squirrel group. RTC is a squirrel group. DM is a squirrel, no longer using Scientology, but Miscavology.

    He may find disease, fractures, concussion, tumors or ANY COMMON ILLNESS which has escaped treatment and has become chronic (perpetual). He should keep looking until he finds it. For it is there. NOT some “insane germ” but some ordinary recognizable illness or physical malfunction.”

    In my humble opinion, none of the Lisa McPherson debacle would exist if the Flag Service Org and the people there had simply followed a straight-forward LRH bulletin. And none of the current tradegy would exist either.

    I did not leave the Co$ because execs were being beaten or because books were being altered or because Int management had been dismantled or because of Lisa McPherson. I was obediently oblivious to all this info and was dutifully censoring my own internet access.

    I withdrew my support from Flag and demanded a refund from them because my personal Doubt formula left NO Doubt that Flag and RTC were a squirrel group.

    But so many mysteries remained…How could this happen? Why? Who? What could possibly be done about it, if anything?

    Again, I want to thank you, Marty, for having the courage to look, to speak out and to continue running this third dynamic engram. It will be as-ised.

    Who knows where we’ll all be when the dust settles. But it’ll be fun. And the tech will be used by those of us who choose to use it in a theta and liberating fashion, just as it was originally intended.

  18. Karen —


    Just received my copy of Counterfeit Dreams in the mail today. Ordered Nancy Many’s book yesterday.

    Put my name on your list of pre-orders for your book. (You’ve definitely got a book percolating, I can feel it 🙂



  19. Marty,

    Thanks for showing us “The Rest of the Stories”, be it the good the bad or the ugly, concerning my ex Church of Enforced Realities.

    Your ability to hold your position in space and time and communicate is truely helpful beyond belief. Thanks.

  20. Marty, at last – there is a glimmering of justice. We will hope that Merriday doesn’t get “Shenaniganed by DMs attorneys. Good lord OSA, you guys are really getting criminal. Knock it off. You used to be honest people.

    Karen, you write masterpieces of logic and sanity. Your pen is mightier than any sword made by any Japanese swordmaster.

    ML Tom

  21. Very, very interesting. Methinks that it makes no sense to piss of the judge in a current case. Finding Dandar in contempt is truly a pissy thing to do, and does nothing to stop the case. Especially, since Dandar was working to comply with the terms of the agreements.

    This is truly chickenshit.

    This is one of the things that truly pisses me off about CSI and all the other TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) of the Church.

    What incredibly stupid tactics. The tragic death Lisa McPherson was a huge mistake by all involved, who were ignorant in medicine as well as Scientology. I am not aware of this current case, but I will say that locking up meds is not a handling to a Type III son.

    I had a really, really good friend of mine go Type III. It was shocking. My friends and I (all trained to various levels) were with him day and night trying to get him to destimulate. He did, eventually. But that incident taught me some things.

    We as Scientologists are not truly set up to handle Type III (crazy) people, who are in the midst of a psychotic break. We just aren’t. When a person is stark-staring mad, that person needs to be in a very safe, calming environment “staring at rocks.” We all know this, but WE NEVER DO IT. We never take responsibility for our crazy people. We usually stabilize them if we can, and ship them back to their family. This is what happened with my friend, and I’ve seen other cases where that happened. This is NOT a handling. These our our friends, and we just cut them off? Because they are now “illegal PCs.” We can’t even audit them? And, we can’t send them to psychs, because, of course, all psychs are evil.

    Look, the result of this is abandonment of responsibility and the abandonment of our friends. The result of abandonment and lousy handling is tragedy. We abandon some people, and they end up fine, but no longer “one of us.” We abandon others, and we end up with tragedies like Lisa McPherson and Jeremy Perkins.

    It is hard to deal with true insanity. In the Code of a Scientologist we agree to take responsibility for mental health – and yet, look at our real stats in this matter for true mental health crises.

    And, instead of correcting this problem and putting in place a real solution to Type III people, the church instead spends countless sums doing this kind of bullshit. To no end. Because, despite the terms of the agreement in the McPherson case, it is still a thorn in our side, and still a reminder to all that Scientology has not handled the true problem.

    One last note on Lisa McPherson and then I’ll shut up about it. The games condition in Clearwater that prevented those in charge from just taking her NEXT DOOR to the hospital in unconscionable, but okay, at least “man up” and take responsibility for the fuck up. I don’t like weasels. And at that point our Church became very “weasel,” and the result was a tragedy. They are still acting like weasels when tragedy strikes, instead of actually preventing the tragedies.

  22. IMHO:

    altering the tech
    Shattering every point in KSW denying PCs of their F/Ns
    (All the worst GAEs unthinkable)
    Perverting ethics
    Perverting justice
    The cancellation or alteration of LRH policies and films
    Promoting Squirrel tech
    Using Scientology and all it’s resources to benefit only himself
    Lying to millions
    False imprisonment to thousands
    Covering up several suspicious deaths
    Covering up several rapes and other felonies
    Denying proper medical care to staff
    Financial crimes, theft and unethical usage of (unethically obtained) resources
    Inflicting physical and mental injuries to many executives and dedicated staff
    Suppression and degradation
    Sleep deprivation
    Forced abortions
    Forced disconnections
    Forced divorces
    Coercion and extortion
    Illegal use of funds
    “Fair Gaming” critics
    Intimidation and manipulation of the media
    Un-ethical use of PIs
    Destroying the Church of Scientology and stopping everything good about it (by far the biggest crime)

    If there was ever a “book” DM’s pretty much broken every law in it!

    Kinda hard to be “on the fence” when all the fenceposts have been hacked down

    Like Steve says
    If it walks like a duck
    Quacks like a duck
    I call it a duck…
    If they say it’s Gatorade but it smells like antifreeze
    And it tastes like antifreeze
    I call it __________

  23. John~The outright mob mentality. There’s no other way to view it. Crim de la Crim.

  24. Thank you Lisa McPherson. You are still with us in our hearts as all other fighters who did make it in this world going against the ods. This one is for you , through you , because of you. This is your gift to us all, How ill begotten it may be.

    I never knew you but posting here amongst this crowd I like to think I might have known you onxe or will meet you some day.

  25. Sam~LoL 😉 I wondered that myself.

  26. Cat Daddy, loved it, Johnny Cash is one of the greatest and that says it all!

  27. Yeah, runway is not needed as there’s already a “helipad” in front of the main Gold buildings, normally used by Tom Cruise for his comings and goings. Jackson has supervised many landings there and it used to be one of his “drills”.

  28. Vicki,
    Precisely, hopefully if the big tank of worms get’s unsealed it may reflect the Chairman of Buildings involvement with his illegal C/Sing etc. which was hidden. http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012234.ece

  29. Ahhhh


    Back in the day before Miscavige’s holy Jihad against Psychiatry we had actual Psychiatrists who were also Scientologists that we could send Type III’s to.

    Now thanks to Bruce Wiseman who has replaced Dr. Thomas Szasz as the guiding light of CCHR the Church no longer has an alliance with any independent Psychiatrists.

    Thus “Baby watching” has become a standard Squirrelotolgy procedure.

    This plus the fact that the Squirrels can no longer do a standard by the book Introspection RD thanks to the Grossly Altered Tech or GAT and you have a recipe for calamity such as Lisa and others.

  30. “Command Invention” – very funny!

    David M., not being able to assimilate straight Scientology, I doubt can assimilate straight legal.

  31. I’ve never seen as many surveys being sent out on email lines over the last several months as has been since ………….

    When you get tired of getting all their spam emails, start hitting “reply” and send them back a link to Marty’s blog. Pick a real good one (like one on the Dwarf or the IAS or Idle orgs) and give them the url. It’s makes them nuts and puts them at effect. There’s not a faster way to get off their email lists. An “all points bulletin” goes out across the whole planet and within a day…………no more emails. It’s wonderful.

    The beauty of this is that OSA has no way of knowing how many people at the orgs are actually reading those emails and forwarding them on.

    ps. Save all their email addresses before you get deleted from their end.

  32. Sam, Love. Just IS.

  33. Nope. Not me Sammy. 🙂

  34. martyrathbun09

    I certainly can and will say it, they are NOT doing what Ron said.

  35. martyrathbun09

    Allen, read the Truth Rundown Series of June 09.

  36. Trouble, I’m glad you’re trouble. Well done.

  37. As an objective statement that quote holds thruth. It has been that way in america a long time.

    It is an observation and a correct one. The correct thing to say in this case is Miscavige is making use of the founders observations.

  38. Grasshopper,
    I could not agree more! CO$ trashes psychiatry but puts nothing in place to handle those Type III beings. The CO$ will spend millions on preventing psychiatry, generalizing that all it’s practitioners are evil, and yet have put NOTHING in place to replace it. It wouldn’t take many successes to show th value…ARGH…one more example of piss poor management. Vicki

  39. Karen, I agree with WH. If you are not writing a book, START! You have
    a lot to say and you write so well. Love

  40. Marty, I’m trying to watch football. You keep distracting me. I have to
    admit I can’t leave this blog alone. DM creates his own problems, then
    he handles, with more problems and then he handles the handlings
    and then more handlings of handlings and then……..

  41. Cat Daddy,


    Tom Gallagher

  42. I also have noticed these Church of Scientology of Miscavige surveys and promotional bits (emails and mailings) which often coincide with topics presented on this Marty’s Blog. It is as if someone barks orders for a promotional action to try to counter a blog topic presented here.

    Ha!… but there is one survey which the Church of Miscavige can NOT conduct… “How many people in the church and out of the church are reading this blog?” “Who knows?”
    There are many, many, many past church members or quiet on-lines church members who read this blog.
    Miscavige does not know whether or not other people know.

  43. Dear Karen,

    Thank you for your precise analysis and comments. History will look back and give you the greatest acknowledgment. And those others here.

    ML, Tom Gallagher

  44. Carol, Windhorse and Sarge,
    Thanks for the ack.
    However it is Marty’s book that anticipation and focus should be on.
    This will ~~
    +++Blow charge for you more than any DM version of an L 10 L 11 or L 12 !
    +++Answer the questions on the checks and balances of Ecclesiastical structure and what occurred….
    +++Fill you in on LRH’s last years…
    +++Give you full understanding so you can get out of CONFUSION of viewing the scene by COMPARING WHERE one is, to other AREAS WHERE one WAS.
    ++++You have every reason to highly anticipate this book…..

  45. Sarge,

    I’m trying to watch the Cincinnati Reds vs St. Louis. Marty must be anti-sports….

    Regarding DM- One day it goes POOF!

    Highest regards, Tom

  46. >”I am not aware of this current case, but I will say that locking up meds is not a handling to a Type III son.”

    According to the lawsuit, Kyle was taking Lexapro (escitalopram) for his “depression and social anxiety”. Lexapro is an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) which is in the same class as Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, et al. They are readily prescribed by GPs who know no better. Aside from the long list of general side effects (including violent thought and suicidal ideation), a sudden change in dosage (whether an increase, decrease or indeed stopping altogether – such as in this case) can amplify such feelings ~significantly~.

  47. Marty, Notre Dame and Michigan both won. Does A and M have a team
    this year?

  48. Like when I was dying of pneumonia for 3 weeks at Flag during L-10 in a room by myself, hardly able to breathe. They were doing L’s between OT 5 and 7 erroneously at that point. Lots of people going splewy. The Medical Officer that was “handling” me was the same one that was involved in handling the Lisa McPherson fiasco. I forgot her name but she was so lethargically incompetent I couldn’t believe it. Janis? Then they sent me to a doctor who later was busted for illegal distribution of narcotics. They didn’t pay too much attention to me while I was caved in and struggling for breath in the Ft. Harrison, but they sure as hell put out the welcome mat and their best smile when it came time for me to pay them for more and more and more intensives of L-10 so I could try to save my life.

  49. Marty,
    From your experience, maybe you can shed some light on how in the hell does the Church succeed in getting SOME judges, like the state one in this article, to kowtow to their demands and produce their slanted justice? Do they get to pick the dumb and old judges? Do they use blackmail? Compromising photos? Bribes? Beg? Hypnotism? Play golf with the judge?

    Obviously though, the Fed Judge ain’t playin’ their circus game, but why? What prevents them from pulling out that same Felix magic bag o’ tricks on the Fed guy?

    Gotta admit, they seem to be pretty good at this stuff. Hopefully it WILL backfire on them. Please lord, let me see some backfire.


  50. Karen. Beautifully expressed and so true.

  51. Allen.
    Apparent theta. Intent vicious. I call it how I see it.

  52. Sarge I GET IT!
    Too funny 😀

  53. Phew. I’m really glad about that Harry because I always thought you were one of the white hats 😉

  54. Watching eyes,
    BRILLIANT – the email lines are wide open and can be used to flood the truth right into the orgs!!!! So idiotically simple!
    The link may not be effective as most Sea Org members don’t have access to the internet. I suggest that anyone forwarding data into an org via email lines cut and paste actual information into the body of the email pertinent to whatever stupidity they are sending. That way it will get read by at least by personnel in HCO even if censored and not forwarded to the recipient.

  55. martyrathbun09

    Scout around for an attorney with lots of contacts in the courthouse. Pay him huge sums to use his lines to get favorable treatment. In this case, use him to influence the assignment process so an old buddy gets on. One who is open to, and does receive, all manner of back door, ex parte communication. Voila.

  56. Worst case scenario – DM will read this blog, panic, invoke yet another dumb-ass knee-jerk unusual solution and shut down the email lines into the orgs. What we get then is a few more Sea Org members cogniting that their ‘leader’ is stark staring bonkers.
    It’s a win win proposition.

  57. martyrathbun09

    Good for you. A&M Corpus does not. But, gotta love them Horns.

  58. Tony DePhillips

    It’s kind of strange seeing how the cult abuses the legal process. What I mean by that is I looked on the internet and there are a lot of examples that are documented on how the church uses the legal process to punish people that they don’t like.

    Some examples are getting people’s homes raided for potential copyright violations and getting their computers and papers seized. Trumping up legal suits and complications to drag a person through expensive court cases.

    It also appeared that a lot of judges and probably lawyers and others know that the cult abuses the legal process. I don’t understand why some federal agency cannot step in and try to stop these types of abuses. As someone pointed out the wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind. I just wish they would grind harder and and faster in this case.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Good observation. Another major stake in the heart of the church was Miscavige dismantling Marketing, by first turning it into PR to cover his sorry ass. I’ll expand on this on a posting concerning Jeff Hawkin’s book coming soon.

  60. Sarge – Go Blue!! (U iof Mich)

    ML Tom

  61. Hi Marty,
    Maybe off subject a bit here but I just stumbled upon this book on amazon.com and the sample pages smacked of the sort of thing the CofS has pulled on you. Therefore I recommend you read it.

  62. Dittos – love them Horns!

    I managed to stay off this blog long enough to watch them clean Rice’s clock this afternoon!

    Hook DM, Horns (inside lingo to residents of the Shack)!


  63. The Horns are always good. They got game every year. Go Texas!

  64. Hook ’em!

    Just Me

  65. OTDT
    Horrific L-10 experience.
    I will testify that in the years I audited the Ls and CSed the Ls ending in 1982 (before I went to OSA INT )

    I CANNOT RECALL ONE PERSON THAT HAD TO RETURN FOR Ls REPAIR to Flag Service Org. If it occurred, the amount of returns for repair of messed up Ls was miniscule.

    Now, I hear of one Ls horror story after another. A well known Indie has had to repair 30 botched Ls pcs, who NEVER ever want to return to Flag or the Church. They are DONE.

    This is DM technology, where YOU must COUGH up $1000 an hour to fix his corrupted auditing sessions.

    Enforcing 3 swings of the needle to call an FN has side effects…..

  66. Dear Tony,

    When one (dm, et. al) has a BILLION DOLLAR plus slush fund it’s quite easy to BRIBE, BLACKMAIL and BUY “justice”.

    Just my humble opinion.


  67. Here’s an interesting, positive description of the voir dire behavior of federal judge Steven Douglas Merryday, at http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/03/Hillsborough/_Band_Aid_Bandit__jud.shtml

    Just Me

  68. So there’s no more to say on this?

    No more to do?

    The slate is clear now?

    Everything is fixed?

    Justice has been done?

  69. The rampant and repeated abuses of the legal process perpetrated by the Cult aren’t only a disgusting reflection on Miscavology, they shame the system that allows them to happen.

    But, am I the only one who reckons that dodgy legal shenanigans are deployed because that’s the *only* way DM’s construct can win? Because it’s well known that cheating in a Game is often the last resort of someone who can’t win fair and square…

  70. OK, typical big time corrupt and hidden highly financed litigation scene, then.

  71. Cat Daddy – VWD.

  72. I don’t usually root for the Feds, but in this case…

  73. I appreciate that you allowed my post, but it opens the door to something that has been bothering me quite a bit. The above post is from the first major issue of Ability Magazine (Phoenix AZ), and the situation that Ron was trying to deal with at the time has no doubt changed completely in the 55 years since that time. We could find practically countless Flag Orders, Advices, confidential management briefings, HCOPLs, etc. where LRH was trying to address an organizational problem. The problem is that a solution for a particular time may not suit a new unit of time. The same thing occurs with the computations of a PC. My question is how do we reliably sort through everything and make it all relevant and correctly duplicated? Obviously people in the church cannot even duplicate KSW#1. I want to see Scientology strong, viable and on-source. I visited a Rons Org in Germany once. It was an on-source paradise, but it was small. We need more than that to handle society.

  74. martyrathbun09

    Train and deliver.

  75. martyrathbun09

    Allen, you are hallucinatory cause and I am done playing pretended effect. Get a life.

  76. martyrathbun09

    Link didn’t work for me. Anyone else?

  77. martyrathbun09


  78. OTDT,
    Stories like this are very important for people to know about.
    I am so glad that they get relayed on this blog.

  79. Tony DePhillips

    Someone Else,
    I agree.

    When someone can’t win fair, they sometimes resort to cheating.

    I use to hear the saying ” Disagree and go free” or ” To go OT you have to disagree.” I often felt is was a convenient cliche to get “money”.

    But in the case I find myself in now, I would say to disagree with the dishonesty and alter-is of tech and policy coming from the cult. Apply truth and true Scientology and you will be free right where you stand, now, in present time.

  80. Tony DePhillips

    The rich man has as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel does of passing through the eye of a needle. (paraphrase)

  81. Tony DePhillips

    The link worked for me. That judge sounds like a good guy.

  82. This is off topic but I was thinking about it today. For people that argue the value of scientology I thought of an exercise (that need not be done, but may have a little value in understanding the subtlety of what I am saying). Get a book, any book, put it on a table, front cover up. Get a piece of paper and a pen. Put them beside the book. Sit down infront of these items and look at them for a moment. Think of opening the cover of the book, but dont. Grab the pen and write down on the paper ‘I am opening the book’. Put your hands on your knees and notice the book is closed. Notice there is no change in the book after writing ‘I am opening the book’. Keep this in mind. Now actually open the book. Notice what page you opened it to. Notice you have now learnt what page you opened it to. This is called application. You used a datum, and found out what happened. People here who have applied scientology have an opinion of what happens when it is used. If you have just read a bunch of philosophy books, even if you thought about if its true you do not have experience with using it, and this is important in scientology because a lot of it is new information, remember how you learnt something when you looked at the page in the book you opened? Well imagine if you learned, through testing scientology, that people can be happier and more intelligent, and more in control. Need more be said?

  83. Scott Campbell


    I assume you mean that just that comm lag itself in waiting for the 3 swings of the needle introduces aberration into the auditing process.


  84. I must admit to being a legal-system ignoramus. My limited experience with courts is that the advantage always goes to the well-heeled liar. If you have moral compunctions about lying (as I do), then – STAY OUT OF COURT. Perjury laws are seldom/never enforced. Your opponent can tell many more convenient lies, much-much faster than you can counter-document. Judicial thinking is also hampered by the false principle that “the truth lies somewhere in the middle”.

    I have had far more success with discreet, behind-the-scenes police contacts, coupled with subtle PR campaigns where I remained undetected as the source. Played correctly, the PR line can seem to come from “everywhere”. As long as I use absolute truth, I do not later feel any guilt whatsoever.

    Well-played PR and secure/unknown police contacts…..I recommend this one-two punch. It won’t make you RICH, but if all you’re doing is trying to take out the enemy, it can be very effective.

    When it’s a “David vs. Goliath” scenario, and YOU are “David”, it’s about all you can do.

  85. Tara

    “Crim de la crim” Just brilliant.


  86. You can see his remorse

  87. Now there is a real Ecclesiastical Leader.

  88. The thing about a “global religion” is that there is nowhere you can go where they don’t know you, and in dm’s case, hate you.

    I hear Antarctica is lovely this time of year, dave. The penguins don’t suspect anything, either.

  89. Tom,
    Sarge is a peculiar Michigander – He’s closer to Notre Dame, so that’s his team, closer to Chicago than Detroit so the Cubbies and Bears are his teams! I believe I have more Go Blue Tshirts and hats than he does as it’s my niece and nephew’s alma mater. 😉

  90. I recall a fellow by the name of Tom Thompson who was doing L10 at Flag. In the middle of L10 he had a brain aneurysm and almost died. Fortunately he was operated on by a local scientologist brain surgeon. However, he did suffer permanent brain damage and cannot get around by himself. I was always impressed by the L’s. They were heavily pushed by the Flag Service Consultants, but at the same time they could kill you.

  91. Your humble servant

    Clicking the link does not work, but it does work if you copy and paste it. You can also just go to Amazon and search, “get mad, get even.” This looks like a pure 1.1 tone level text and the prevalence of that tone level in society (and in the church) shows that a criminal defendant’s plea “I was framed” will more often be true than people would be inclined to think.

  92. Anyone wishing to give good advice direct to Ken Dandar, here’s his contact info:

    Ken Dandar
    Dandar and Dandar
    5509 West Gray Street, Suite 201,
    Tampa, Florida.
    Phone: 813-289-3858

    Anyone wishing to help pay for the trial preps costs, which is mainly the cost of the transcript copies of court docs, which Dandar needs, they can donate here:


  93. Steven Douglas Merryday is a real Mensch.

  94. Feds as in the Federal Goverment as a whole ?

  95. “OT VIII” cite case numbers we can look up on Lexis/Nexis in which you were the plaintiff and won. Around here, we don’t take our legal advice from mysterious pseudonomous persons with no documents whatsoever to back up their bullshit.

    Michael A. Hobson

  96. To whom are you directing this rather evaluative and invalidative process you are trying to run on the whole board ?

    Michael A. Hobson

  97. I never learned the Introspection R/D, but I know one of the people who were trained by LRH, and it is a tough thing to audit. You need to have all your cylinders firing as an auditor to be successful. Very easy to screw up. So, it does not surprise me that GAT has killed it.

    We never were good at true crazies. In order to be effective, there needs to be an alliance between an auditor and good medicine. There are plenty of organic factors that contribute to Type III behavior. It has always been standard tech to get the body ruds in before getting in session, and if the problem is medical, then deal with the medical. We need to develop the alliance, not stop all communication with medicine. In any event, if we are going to take responsibility for insane people, we need to truly take responsibility for them, and see it through.

  98. Agreed. I share your frustration!

  99. Yes – there are warnings all over the bottle about the potential for suicide. The doctor who prescribed the stuff is as culpable as anyone for Kyle’s tragic death, but rote “all meds are bad, so lock them away” with no confront of the scene in front of you is just squirrel and stupid.

  100. OTDT, I have a lot of theories about why this happened to you other than evil. My main theory is that the PL’s contain a dumbed down version of the tech that Admin personnel can follow, but is not nearly as nuanced (or as true) as the real tech as contained in HCOB’s, tapes, etc.

    One such datum is that all illness is caused by PTS-ness. On a macro level, that is true, but it gets dumbed down to be “the person is sick, FIND THE SP!” at the exclusion of medical care and finding out what truly occurred technically that contributed to the pre-disposition of the illness. Out Int, out lists, etc. — all auditors trained (correctly) to a certain level get this, but this is missed by non-tech trained people, many of whom are MAAs and Medical Officers, etc.

    In addition, a lot of people who join staff are un- or under-educated, resulting in no context in which to apply Scientology. Finally, we get enforced rote-ness in the form of extreme and literal following of KSW1, in which if you are not following the dumbed-down PL’s to the letter, you are considered an SP and squirrel, when a complete (and thinking) understanding of Scientology would result in a full-view application of the tech. In other words, people who ARE NOT REALLY TRAINED are violating KSW point one: Having the Technology. They don’t have it, and therefore cannot apply it. But they sure are rote at applying what they think is Scientology, based on their limited view.

    This is a long-winded way to say that stupid, rote application of what appears to be Scientology results in stupid results and lawsuits.

    I for one believe in rational and thinking application of Scientology – and that takes a lot of trust in our fellow Scientologists to apply it right.

    OTDT, I am sorry you had to go through that, man.

  101. I’ve been waiting for a good time to comment on this 3-swing-for-an-FN business, this seems like a good time.

    So, speaking as an electronics techie, not as an auditor, let’s look at this logically.

    PC has a key-out. There’s a physical universe side-effect with a key-out that changes how the body behaves electrically, this new state is what you see with an F/N. Great, we all know this. The sequence is key-out, then needle manifestation.

    DM says it’s three swings. That’s a long comm lag after the keyout to get an ack. Long enough to kill the F/N. The illogic that fits here is


    If you plot the movement of an F/N, you get a sine wave, just like the maths teacher taught us in high school. And it is completely unmistakable. So much so, that you only need 1/4 cycle to spot it.

    I can’t see any reason why a highly trained auditor can’t be drilled to spot an valid F/N just by one swing of the needle to one side, the stop and turn. As soon as it starts moving the other way again, a good auditor with their metering in must already know if it’s an F/N. More so at the level of the Ls if what I’ve read about them is true – meaning the auditor skill required.


  102. It was clearly directed at 1.1 sources that have been invalidative, even if subtly, of workable technology. Mike, it was clearly stated it was towards people who argue the value of scientology. If you were angry after reading it I have to state I had no intention of being part of a GPM with you. It was invalidative, and evaluative, you are right. Now its very boring, ahh so bored with it now. Thanks for the direction on censoring my comm, very helpful!

  103. Splog,
    I like your statement about electronic wave manifestation as it relates to an FN and what the PC experiences. FNs can manifest on one swing for sure. It’s unmistakable and easily distinguishable from a rise or any other read. It’s free and floating.

    Ha! Three times….horseshit! I mean if you take LRH blindly literally, Miscavige himself is even double wrong on his own squirrel wrong definition because it doesn’t do EXACTLY what LRH said, in words, “back and forth, back and forth”. Hey, that’s FOUR SWINGS! Dave’s a swing short!!


  104. Yes, that’s true, especially and particularly if they are not treated like the highly explosive dynamite that they are. When I got them, it seemed like Flag was only interested in stats. They would start me on an L after 10 P.M. at night when I was tired, just to get the start, I’m sure. Wins, schmins, just audit over the wins, too. NEED THE WDAHs! STATS! Off-purpose and a betrayal of the purpose.

    But I did get benefits from the L’s too, so it wasn’t all bad. But to be honest, I did not see what magical skills the Class XII’s had beyond what a good Class 8 auditor would have, that would justify the outrageous pricing. I think the L’s cost me $75,000 and change. Just good TRs, Comm Cycle, ARC, metering, Listing and Nulling skills and good at Assessments.

  105. Scott:
    The very basic one sentence LRH definition of IN SESSION
    ATTENTION on own case and WILLING to talk to the auditor.

    When NO FN is called when a release/blow has occurred, the pc naturally develops “meter anxiety.”
    See Tech Vol X p25
    “Attention must be on his own case in a session NOT ON THE METER.”
    When the pc knows he has released and the auditor refuses to acknowledge it, the REALITY drops and the session ARC break occurs.
    Tech Vol 6 p 380, 393.

    Auditing is occurring over ARC breaks of the pc upset at the meter and the auditor when his FNs are not called.
    See Red Tech Vol INDEX page 88 for the numerous reference on this.

    I used to be so upset at Ray Mithoff, LRH trusted Senior CS INT, Dean of Tech, permitting all this to occur, but then I got educated by numerous RTC and other execs to the atrocities and beatings and SP Hole treatment of Ray Mithoff by Miscavige that I now understand how the tech could have gone so off the rails. I respect that Ray Mithoff hangs on in spite of what he has endured. Ray Mithoff has a DM invented “Provisional SP Declare” hanging over him.

    The Gold camera man enforces his brand of DM tech that includes a massive amount of auditing over ARC breaks, making the case actually worse.

  106. Indisputably, LRH wrote that in policy.

  107. It was more than the founder’s observations. It was policy directing specific action and expected to be followed.

  108. He also cannot conduct a survey of how many church Scientologists are in actual fact fed up, dissatisfied, suspicious of management, disagree with the tech alterations, even disagree with some LRH policy, but do not speak about it openly.

  109. Greased, dumb weasels who scoured for the dark when the light was shone on them. It all would have been handled differently if they weren’t under some kind of suppressive, weird influence like DM and his capos.

  110. DM and the likes of him have camel suits on, trying desperately to jam their fat heads through that teeny, weeny eye.

  111. Federal interference with individual States.

  112. Beautifully, 100% standardly put.

  113. Very good points you make, Grasshopper. I agree with you.

    And there’s always the old adage:

    That which does not kill me, makes me stronger. And even further still, even if it does kill me, it’ll still make me stronger.

  114. As in Federal government interfering with state and local government unless absolutely necessary.

  115. Absolutely. My point was simply that, quite possibly, it was the ~sudden stoppage~ of the drug that brought about the suicidal ideation (and resulting action), rather than the supposed “mental illness” the drug was being used to “treat”.

    It is well documented that, for some, SSRI withdrawal can be more dangerous than continuing the drug. CCHR, in their defence, frequently make this point in it’s literature, warning users to seek advice from a medical doctor before discontinuing.

  116. Maybe they did apply it but saw that it did not work and therefore it is not true for them. THAT is also a genuine application of Scientology, applied religious philosophy.

  117. Don’t include me in with your “we”, please. Seems like a rather benign comment by OT VIII. I’ll listen to what someone has to say about their experience without having to have documentation. No reason to get nasty with him.

  118. How much money did he make from the Lisa McPherson settlement?

  119. We also need the Venus Project or it will all sadly just repeat itself over and over again as time has shown since the dawn of time.

    Oh well I tried. If anyone wants to see I do have the link here.

    the video here.

  120. Freedom Fighter

    Grasshopper, spot on! Absolutely spot on!!

  121. Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace.
    – Buddha

    Just a suggestion on your road to inner peace, Allen.

  122. I hear that DM upped the ante to four swings now. Or is it five?

  123. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Karen.

    Fantastic answer and as I suspected. Beautifully put.


  124. What did not work for you? No generalities please, I can not think with non-existant data. If there is no example I will not be able to test it myself. OTDT are you restimulated or illiterate to technology. Please answer. Or not. Its ok, really…

  125. Sir, You best be trollin’

  126. Love that, OTDT! I’m going to quote you.

    I will sometimes say, “of course you only live once. It’s just a very, very long once!” (over a multitude of bodies, to be sure!)

  127. Mr. Stanfield,
    Much, if not all the information you seek is written up on the web; who the C/Ses were, medical officer, medical doctors, baby sitters, many of the notes, what happened to the missing notes and session worksheets, who was busted, etc. Marty already stated his own culpability and knowledge of the matter. Why try to squeeze him in open forum like this. Why not be a gentleman and email him privately if you would like to actually get in communication with him more on this matter?

    I’ve read your blog and I respect and understand your viewpoint, which you have a total right to. Some of what you say I even agree with.

    But it seems to me that Marty’s been fair with you and has allowed you to post on his blog, so why abuse that? This is a communication forum for increased understanding, not a public pillory platform to abuse and roast the host. Otherwise, you’re just being an argumentative dickwad showman. It’s just plain bad manners.

  128. I wish you had been my damn C/S on the L’s!

  129. Yes, but Tony, those guys were “copyright terrorists”!

    Lol. Everyone’s a terrorist according to DM.

  130. Based on your logic, everyone who questions the value of scientology is 1.1. Jeff Hawkins is not 1.1.

  131. I didnt state my reasoning. It was purely to spell out datum – test – result, and the fact that people have the right to be free of invalidation about their observations. It was a blow to the enemy of the group that I am a part of that seeks to live with the truth about workable technology. I guess I need to be able to allow people to misunderstand me. My intention is basically good, I need not expend more energy on this line. Moderator, if you see fit I would like this chain deleted, but otherwise I am dropping it as a cycle. Read into my intentions as you will, I have tried to clarify enough.

  132. “MAY 2004: The estate of Lisa McPherson and the Church of Scientology reach a settlement. The terms are made confidential”


  133. OTDT, in which policy? My understanding is that “A Manual on the Dissemination of Material” was simply made part of OSA INT ED 508R. On the subject of initiating Black PR campaigns, I can find no HCO PL that supports this. (Quite the opposite, in fact).

  134. Your humble servant


    I understood what you said, and I thought it was fine. I don’t see any reason for anyone to come back on a poster on this blog with a nasty, challenging attack, unless people feel it is necessary to respond to what was a nasty, challenging attack in the first place, which your post clearly was not. Let’s try to be civil to one another, shall we? I know it’s tough, but let’s try to apply the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like them to treat you. Thanks for your post.

  135. Humbleservant, Your ack ‘hit the spot’. Thankyou.

  136. What does your statement mean, Cat Daddy? Are you referring to me? What about?

  137. Your statements are bizarre to me, Mr. Gibson. Your challenging, aggressive, evaluative and invalidative dialog comes across to me like a tight hand around my throat, pinning me to the wall.

    You suggest I’m restimulated and that I’m ignorant? For what reason?

    I will not reverse the flow back on you, but I will point out that you have no idea what my training level, processing level or my real world experience is with the tech inside the church and outside.

    Not all generalities are incomprehensible, many can be understood standing by themselves. It is not too difficult to think that someone could actually apply LRH’s suggestion that if a piece of Scientology was not true for an individual then it is not true for them. This axiom exists even without Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard.

    Your Nazi-like leap on anyone who suggests that any or all of the tech did not work for them is to me, indicative of the Church of Miscavology philosophy.

    End of conversation with you. Have a nice day.

  138. Servant,
    Gibson’s remarks were nasty and challenging, asking me if I am restimulated and ignorant. And I disagree with his theory and premise that, as a “blow to the enemy” he should jump on someone because they have “even subtly” suggested that any of the tech is unworkable.

  139. Mr. Gibson,
    Looks like the deletion request is not being complied with.

    In that case, one last thing, your logic doesn’t make sense to me because even if someone gave you an example of what is not true for THEM, and you test it to see if it is true for YOU, what does that have to do with it being true for THEM?

    Maybe I’m simply too restimulated and ignorant to grasp your superior knowledge, so we’ll just leave it at that.

  140. OTDT, your logic is agreed with. My observations may differ from others. I did not look that far ahead when I posted. I withdraw my comment on restim or illiteracy, it was on a ridiculing harmonic, I was not fully aware of the effect I was creating. I respect the intention behind the above posts, I did not keep up with the multi-fold understandings that came about from reading my post. Thankyou for helping me understand. I wish you well.

  141. Well on some boards people ask about were Marty gets his money from. I understand it was a neutral curiosity based question on your part or does it stem from some other motive ?

  142. Karen,

    Great post! Thanks!

  143. Cat Daddy,
    I have little experience on blogs, but it is my understanding that when someone slings a ‘troll’ label at you, it’s derogatory. Also, my motives are directly and exactly and only what my post states. There’s nothing hidden in my comm and I don’t have an agenda. You seem quick to pull this shit on me and I’d appreciate it if you’d knock it the hell off. Are you trying to see if you can make me flinch or something? I don’t get it.

    Lastly, and to answer your question exactly, when I read in a post here that donations could be made to Dandar to help him with court costs or whatever, before I considered whether or not to donate, I would like to know whether or not he really needs the dough. A very logical thought, don’t you think? He COULD have millions as part of his cut of the giant (I’m sure) settlement on the Lisa McPherson case. Or NOT. I don’t know. That’s why I asked, in a way to see if anyone knew the answer.

    And this is the last time I will explain myself to you about anything. Unless I happen to personally discover that I’ve accidentally been ambiguous or covert in my statements or questions and then I’ll apologize and clarify. But I take great care and pride, especially when dealing with the written word, in the clarity of saying exactly what I mean. I may have my moments of absurdity, but not ambiguity.

    At least that’s been my experience when I’m communicating with people who duplicate me and do not embellish, imply or alter what it was I said.


  144. Jack UK,
    I didn’t say HCO PL, I said policy, per the definition of the word and per the practices of the church. As you know, there are numerous written issues by LRH and others such as Flag Orders, LRH EDs, RTC directives, Sea Org directives and many other written directives including advices that act as policy and are expected to be followed, especially when command intention dictates it so.

  145. Mr. Gibson,
    I will accept your withdrawal and your good wishes. Thank you.

  146. The sentence I used was not to label you. It is used to express suprise and disbelief at a comment. All I know about Dandar getting money from Bob Minton in the McPherson Case.
    I am still doing background checking on it. Wait a minute Maik Rinder KNOWS about this.

  147. I cleared up the definition of the word troll, both in noun and verb forms but your statement, “Sir, you best be trollin'” still doesn’t make sense.

  148. OTDT,

    CD used an idiom, you won’t fully clear it by just clearing the words. A troll post is by definition never the truth, it’s a post designed to elicit a response. In it’s most vile form, a troll post is designed to make people angry.

    Your post surprised CD, his post is best translated to “That’s a touchy subject, I hope you just asked (even if as a harmless troll) and don’t have some dark ulterior motive”.

    Blog culture has a lot of self-deprecating humour and over-the-top responses in it. And a lot of inversion too – it’s part of an IT subculture. For example, at work, we respond to small mistakes colleagues make with rants, raves and threats of them having to buy vast amounts of cake to make up for the error. But a really serious mistake with consequences gets met with “Oh-oh, I don’t think you should have done that….”.

    We know what it all means, our managers usually don’t. It’s an idiom thing and can only be fully clear by understanding the culture and viewpoints it comes from.

    Hope this clears it up for you.

  149. OTDT, of course. I get that. But can you help me out at least? Is there something then within an FO, ED, etc.?

  150. What splog said and I was not calling you a…….

    An additional meaning couls be: Sir I hope what you are hinting towards is not thruth because if it is than we could surely be f……d

  151. Jack,
    OK, got it. I may have not understood what it is you were asking. Don’t know exactly what reference you’re looking for, but aside from the Manual on Dissemination quoted above, “Originate a black PR campaign to destroy the person’s repute and to discredit them so thoroughly they will be ostracized…”
    you can check out the PR Series, OEC Vol 7 under legal stuff, ethics officer training, G.O. training, etc., etc.

    Sorry I don’t have the materials available and didn’t mean to hold myself out as a source for Source references. I thought you were asking if the above quote from the Manual on Dissemination was real or not and I was answering what I knew to be true. Maybe you could check with Jim Logan for a more precise reference of what you’re looking for.

  152. Splog,
    I don’t know how to post this so it shows up in the right place under your post to me, so I’ll just put it here. I’m learning.

    Your clarification of the idiom opened up a whole new world of sophistication in the world of blogs and IT that I was completely unaware of. I knew there was slang involved but didn’t know there was so much culture and understanding involved.

    I thought I was being accused of being a troll who came here to “just be an ass before moving on”.

    Cool breeze and thanks a bunch.


  153. Cat Daddy,
    When I used the pronoun “he”, did you think I was referring to Dandar or Marty?

  154. Kandar of course I was comparing your question about Kandar and money with the questions on some boards about Marty and money.

    Hubbard might as well have written a piece on Pain Sex AND money as triggers to control people

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