Here is David Miscavige’s view of himself in his own words. These are April 2007 instructions to Tommy on what to tell the BBC in response to their repeated requests for his interview.
When you go to ask an organization for an interview, you don’t get the top guy just because you ask. Especially when it comes to me. My perspective is, I’m responsible for the Church, that’s who I go see, I am the most public figure there is, and if and when I do a show, I do it on my sweet time.
Larry King wants to interview me—to him, he’ll wait because that’s ratings. Cooper Anderson is the hottest thing on CNN, not that that means anything. He’ll wait because that’s a coup. This guy thinks he gets the interview.
This is why, whatever these questions are, he’s asking questions anybody can answer. He thinks that what gets him the head of the Church organization is that he can come up with a bunch of anonymous, salacious, unfounded allegations and therefore the top guy in the Church should do an interview with him to answer them. Is the guy crazy?
You go to any religious leader, you want that show—then you’re going to get the show on the religion. There is no religious leader in the world that is going to go and answer to a pile of crap unless they’re a fly by night, and what’s bothering him is that we’re not fly by night. We’re getting bigger and bigger.
Compare this to the type of business he was transacting that had him too busy to deal with riff raff like John Sweeney, Anderson Cooper and Larry King. Here again is from a despatch from Miscavige sent within a few short weeks of the above diatribe:
In the last few weeks, it has not been nice. Do you know
that pimple you saw? Well, I popped it. We’re talking two guys
buying X-rated movies and masturbating simultaneously in the same
room with one being the husband and one being the wife, going
through Dean and Deluca (a gourmet mail order catalog) catalogs as
husband and wife and the bald-headed guy buying the other one
cheese as a favor. We’re talking about the guy who was on the
finance lines and refused to get you the finance issues, waiting
for R to come back so he can be permanently appointed for the rest
of the universe as the International Finance Dictator. We’re
talking about me finding out exactly what Mike was doing in 1982.
We’re talking about Marc’s op. We’re talking about me knowing
exactly what MR has been doing on his sympathizing for all the SPs
who got nothing done.
I guess Tommy Two Tone was right on one thing: Mr. Miscavige gives a whole new meaning to the term “religious leader.”
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Scrambled inflated horseshit beyond contempt….
To me it’s embarrassing and brutal to find out who I followed for two decades…
Fidelio
If that comm was similar to the ones that the poor souls have to M9, I feel for them. I had to read it a few times and still . . .
Love the picture. So SOLID. The movie star and his wannabe in what looks like the pre-reno’d hanger. Poster picture for the EP of DM’s altered Scientology.
He does make a couple of valid points about the news organizations.
Ahh Dave, DS 23 Proper Format and Correct Action, 17 Feb 72, comes to mind.
“All such Evaluations should be REVIEWED as soon as the actions have had time to take effect.
“An idiot optimism can suppose all is well and that it is needless to Review. ”
“But if this WHY was wrong then the situation will deteriorate and a worsening situation will be apparent.
“Thus a sharp watch has to be set. No thirst for “always being right” or arrogance about never being wrong must prevent an honest review.
“WAS the Ideal Scene approached or attained?”
” The heart of Review is HUMILITY.”
This, the lack of self examination. The inability to review your acts against the dynamics. This is your undoing.
Take heart , undoing what you’ve become is a good thing in the long run. Nobody likes arrogance that is empty. Nobody likes a puffed up fake. Competence is high on the scale and that is attainable to those who can Review. It’s not for those who thirst for always being right.
Learn to fish – it will teach you humility.
DM, fyi, more and more public who have been around awhile, are asking themselves the same question about you, “Is the guy crazy”? If you check resign stats you may find the answer.
Funny how the dwarf would use the phrase “fly by night”. I think he knows that’s exactly what he is. Lets look at a few definitions of fly by night taken from The Free Dictionary.com:
1. unreliable or untrustworthy, esp in finance
Gee, couldn’t possibly apply to Davey, could it? Here’s another one for you.
2. (of businesses and businessmen) unscrupulous; a shady operation
Sound like a certain cult we know? Nah. How about this one?
3. not worthy of trust or belief
Fly by night = DM. He knows it. We know it. But I do thank him for supplying us with the label. Couldn’t have said it better if I tried.
Tommy sending these recordings to you as a peace offering? Building his own bridge so he is welcome on the other side of the razor fence? A little amends up front. Good move Tommy.
There is no religious leader in the world that is going to go and answer to a pile of crap unless they’re a fly by night, and what’s bothering him is that we’re not fly by night. We’re getting bigger and bigger.
😆 Huh What? No wonder Tommy sounds so stupid. Wrong valence to emulate there Tommy…seriously wrong. Has it won you anything good yet?
Glad to know that the Dalai Lama and the Rev. Billy Graham are both “fly by night.” I’m sure they would be so pleased to hear that.
That’s the most ignorant, incomprehensible statement I’ve ever read. Made my head hurt trying to duplicate his viewpoint. It’s dripping with stupidity and arrogance and obtuseness. Good god, when I think about all those who had to endure this manure from DM, method 9 his broken words and then comply with his ambiguous chop suey sayings, I just wanna buy you a beer.
Either dm has gone from being a narcissistic sociopath to a self deluded narcissistic sociopath or he was giving Tommy a smoke enema.
Up to the last paragraph I was getting the idea that there might not have been any flies on the wall during that conversation. How nice it would have been to know that only two people were privy to it.
Well said. And can you imagine a photo of the Dalai Lama posing on a motorcycle with TC, dressed to match, leaning against his BFF and looking like an full-on arrogant gangsta pimp? Religious Leader indeed.
“Bigger and bigger”, huh Dave?
Care to release the IAS membership stats?
EISM — He was really proud of that photo. Thought it would buy him some credibility with the LA Times. He had it taken and delivered to the LA Times wth great ceremony as an “exclusive” — a gift from the almighty Dear Leader that he was sure would make them cream in their jeans and realize what a generous, wonderful, powerful being he was. Dear Leader was excited like a kid at Christmas when it appeared in the Times, letting everyone know that this was the only good thing in the article, because only he had the brilliance to think of somethig so clever. He loved the fact that it positioned him with Tom Cruise — remember this was before Tom had become the butt of repeated jokes (just check the comments about him whenever there is a media mention these days — uniformly he is treated as a total joke and subject of derision). Miscavige hasnt just killed the Church, he has killed Tom Cruise as a movie star too. Such is the malevolant influence of the Vampire Emperor.
The Dalai Lama does not need Tom Cruise. He has Richard Gere. Best thing about the Dalai Lama however is his laugh. Ever heard it? It sounds a little affected, but I think it would do everyone a world of good to imitate it. If DM could develop such a laugh, he could bowl everyone over with humor. Jim Logan has nailed. I am amazed, however, that DM (like OJ Simpson) actually believes what he is saying. DM reminds me of George Steinbrenner here and the New York Yankees. No matter how stupid or inept either one can be, they will rise to the top to some degree because of one thing: money. In essence, DM has only one thing keeping him afloat: money and a lot of it. It is true that his ship is leaking. Reminds me of the arrogance of the Titanic’s builders. My astrologer friend predicted he would fall from power sooner rather than later. My analytical mind is more skeptical. As long as he has money, he has lots of time and no criminal charges have been made against him (that I know of). Now, if you want to get an idea of how wacky money is on this planet (and I know you all know that but this link will impress the neighbors, too). http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/11/conspiracy-theories.html
It is from the Parliament’s equivalent of the Congressional Record and demonstrates the power ‘X’ finance has over governments.
Wither reference to my quip about the neighbors above, I realized that DM is offically PTS TYPE G
“PTS TYPE G, persons who claim, that “if you help such and such a case” (at great length and your expense) because somebody is rich or influential or the neighbors would be electrified should be ignored. Processing is designed for bettering individuals, not progressing by stunts or giving cases undue importance. Process only at convenience and usual arrangements. Make no extraordinary effort at the expense of other persons who do want processing for normal reasons. Not one of these arrangements has ever come off successfully as it has the unworthy goal of notoriety, not betterment.”
I think this sums up DM and TC better than anything I have ever read. TC achieved unprecedented notoriety with his couch dancing. It fascinates me how cozy he became with Brooke Shields and Matt Lauer after bashing them. And if PTS Type G does not cover it, perhaps the Greek myth of Narcissis will. The Greeks wrote down that story for a reason.
His words are indicative that he has no media strategy whatsoever. Probably hard to do if you’re in hiding. Sounds like he’s starting to ramble incoherently, like Jim Jones.
Did he really refer to Anderson Cooper as “Cooper Anderson?”…
Does he follow mainstream culture/media at all? Serious question.
Mike,
Thanks, wondered how the photo got published. It looks like it was taken at the ASI parking structure which is by the VE’s lavish LA digs.
The two look like they’re very solid citizens and not happy with their bike rides or life at the top. That statement “We’re getting bigger and bigger.” shows a pretty disillusioned viewpoint, perhaps looking only at the Sq Ft real estate statistics, paid for by parishioners direct donations. Does he really believe his own PR lines such as fastest growing religion BS?
You know, the funny thing is that what DM is saying here isn’t necessarily wrong from a PR perspective – you don’t always hand over your top guy for interviews, particularly if they’re likely to be antagonistic. Most issues can be dealt with by a PR flack like Tommy. But the problem for Scientology is that it’s unlikely that any interviewer has friendly questions that can only be answered by Miscavage in his role as a spiritual leader – ie. why did you change the definition of a floating needle? – because the media isn’t interested.
This is the great shame – and its certainly not all the fault of Scientology – even a critic such as myself can see that there are any number of valid explorations of Scientology beliefs and spiritual practices that would be of interest to TV audiences, but 50 years of bad relations and sensationalism on the part of the media, combined with the church’s overly defensive stance towards outsiders (however understandable at the time) have meant that Scientology is ignored as a spiritual path, and is seen at best an eccentricity. (For one shining exception to this, I’d recommend everyone read Harriet Whitehead’s ‘Renunciation and Reformulation: A Study of Conversion in an American Sect’, a little known academic (but very readable) serious study of Scientology as a spiritual pursuit, which avoids all the cheap pot-shots and gives the topic the serious attention it deserves.)
This is another reason why I look forward to the expansion of Casablanca Tejas – if the mainstream media can’t find space to discuss Scientology seriously, and if the Church’s bigwigs are too sullied by their overts and withholds (look! Horror! I’m using your language!) to gently explore their beliefs in a relaxed manner, then it becomes ever more important that a space be opened up somewhere where Scientology as a spiritual pursuit can be discussed with non-Scientologists, rather than us having the same argument about Scientology as a con-game, cult, misery factory, etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
Its just unfortunate that this is unlikely to include the present Church leadership. As I say, what DM was saying wasn’t necesssarily wrong from a PR perspective, although the unspeakably arrogant tone shines through (Marty – your picture choice did indeed speak a thousand words). But the question has to be asked – do these people take Scientology seriously enough to allow it be be discussed seriously. If they’re not, well, there’s nothing stopping us…
Folks, there are four paragraphs inside DM’s mind. Probably spat out inside of a minute. Imagine sitting in a meeting for hours inflowing that logic. Now you know why we were all so crazy. It is the theta equivalent of rolfing done to your mind but done badly. Sheesh did this post bring back memories. You, reading it, probably felt a little off balance trying to make it make sense. THAT is the main op basis DM uses to keep everyone around him off balance. THOSE are the emperor’s clothes. ARC is the water that melts him and his wicked witches.
I’m a gonna wax a bit didactic here.
I’ve quoted a policy from 23 Oct 63, Refund Policy, a few times on the topic of the robotic, circuit application of policy in any circumstance.
“The more thetan you have present, the less policy you need and the better things run. Only a thetan can handle a post or a pc. All he needs is the know-how of minds as contained in Scientology. That was all he ever lacked. So, given that, sheer policy is poor stuff, as it seeks to make a datum stand where a being should be. That’s the whole story of the GPMs. So why not have live orgs?”
From a tape in the 1st ACC, Randomity and Automaticity, 4 Nov 53:
“In other words, we find a war in progress and we take it out by making the thetan, first, be both sides of it, then have him be willing to fight such a war which is the next thing you’ve got to solve and next by just being an observer of both sides of it. And because he’s holding on to both sides of it, it’ll collapse.”
This quote is an exercise in Pan Determinism. It also holds the basic material on a GPM. A Goals Problem Mass is two competing ideas held apart. One dramatizes the actions that would go with one of these ideas, opposing the actions that go with the competing idea. Eventually, by resonating at the frequency of that which is opposed, the current or flow reverses, the ‘capacitor’ charged up fully, reverses. The being flips over to the other side of the set of terminals (the ideas being fundamental) and now become that which he resisted, opposes that which he was (the idea).
Dave himself is something he opposed. That overtook his own viewpoint and he became it, now seeing only what that valence sees, having lost his own viewpoint. He is ‘out of valence’. He’s stuck in to the whole GPM thing. Fighting ideas with fixed ideas.
Fighting, willingness to do so, as per the above ACC tape, has to be rehabilitated and flattened, then one is not compulsively mocking up opponents outside of their own decision to do so.
A major difference between DM’s ‘church’ and the independent Scientologists he’s now ‘up against’ is lots of us are not dramaitizing GPMs. We don’t have an idea of who or what we are ‘supposed to’ be or do standing in the place of us as live beings. We can be and communicate to whomever we wish and do so. Willingness to be the ‘other side’ and applying the datum from the ACC, we can get up and out of these GPMs, these artificial wars, and they collapse.
This blog is that drill in action. All sorts of ‘beings as ideas’ come on here, and if they stick around, soon it’s just live beings, with ideas.
DM doesn’t get it. He’s stuck, out of valence. “Perverts, suppressives and critical, snide, ruthless, arrogant or contemptuous personalities are always out of valence.” HCOB 2 Aug 69 LX Lists.
DM is fighting. We are causing from above the fight. He’s little. We are Giants – they are World Series Champions!
To put DM’s statement into perspective, one has to remember that the overriding purpose of the Church is to introduce Scientology to as many people as possible across the world and to get them onto and up the Bridge. Any interview with major media is an opportunity to do just that. Media people as supposed to ask the “tough questions” and many people simply ridge on the tough questions not realizing that many of the media people are themselves fairly impartial. Their job is to ask the “tough questions.” And what is a “tough question” really, but an golden opportunity for a BRILLIANT answer that completely puts the matter to rest!
Any Scientologist who has done the Professional TRs course ought to be able to field any question from the media. I know I can do so easily. I don’t have any trouble answering anyone’s questions these days about Scientology.
But this complete JACK ASS in charge of the Church doesn’t see it that way. To David Miscavige, Scientology is not about helping people. It’s not about making Auditors. It’s not about making Clears and OTs. It’s not about creating a safe environment. It’s not about LRH’s humanitarian objective. It’s not about making war, insanity and crime things of the past. It’s not about making a world where the able can prosper and where mankind is free to rise to greater heights.
Oh no, Scientology to this prima donkey’s ass is the David Miscavige Show, starring… David Miscavige!
He thinks Scientology is all about him.
Of course, there is another side to the matter: Miscavige can’t go on TV and handle these questions because he is totally guilty. So he’s handing Tommy Brown Nose a bunch of BS justifications.
Jim — I love it.
Wax on.
That be some good wax. You need more wax, you just let me know. I think I can find some, I just hope it is of suitable quality.
I see some martial arts something here as well, for while there is this GPM mechanism and it requires some umpph in the base to hold it apart, that characteristic is also what help determines power. Where’s that country western song on “Know when to hold ’em. know when to fold ’em.? And this may be the genus of some serious MUs on power by some — Marty’s earlier blog on “Worse than Fair Game.”
Bruce Pratt
miscavige looks attractive in this pic, rugged, handsome, masculine. but it’s just a pic, an image, pr or as they say, smoke and mirrors. the real guy is a pompous arrogant asshole who fucks over his own parishioners for money, power etc. he actually is not the only one responsible for the church, the entire group of people called scientologists are. we put it there and have been putting it there. he has lived off of our create all these years. what are his stats? telling people what to do or hanging out with tom cruise?
I wasn’t at Int but your comment sums up my thoughts the best. Merely reading his ramblings turns on – even in a man – PMS (Post Messcology Syndhrome) 🙂 Does he dictate these things or does someone have a recorder on 24/7 and just transcribes that incoherent slush he utters while taking a crap?
However, I can predict what he’s going to say when confronted with those transcripts in court: The (“by now infamous”) TRANSCRIPTIONIST was suppressive! What a jerk.
Having read numerous accounts of DM saying others on PR lines were incompetent, I’ve never understood why, if that’s the case, he doesn’t Phase I.
David, with all due respect I dont agree that DM approach is correct.
One of the rules of PR is manners. His statement when he is being solicited that he will do it on his own sweet time is not the correct attitude or response.
And there are types of PR. Good and bad. Good works well publicized is good, for example, and good works not publicized is innefective. Bad works or practices which are well publicized, of which the current media is full, is enemy PR and needs to be addressed. Not addrsssing it, is innefective at best and/or aiding it by refusal to communicate. DM sheltering himself from interviews aids the proliferation of the bad works, even validates them as ommission begets consent. A leader would take the bull by the horns, not adopt an I am too important attitude.
We realize he cannot answer the allegations to a satisfactory result. Thats what has him in the bunker with the churches PR credibility dissolving before their eyes.
They attempt to keep their PR anchor points out there with the meet a scientologist entries I see a lot. And that is correct PR. But folks follow attack lines, and DM’s refusal and inability to defuse them is itself proof that they are true.
Its a form of denial. And it will never make the problem or issues go away.
It was hard enough to offset enemy press in the newspaper dead files which always would be looked at for background information. In the age of the internet, its totally impossible. But he is not even trying. Another PR mistake.
You are totally correct: it’s very easy to answer tough questions. They are only tough when you can’t, won’t or shouldn’t say the TRUTH. The rest is relatively easy. Won’t be amazed if we all had made that experience.
Sara — I take it this is a rhetorical question? Can you imagine how he would squirm being asked about beating people? Or the private jet/cars/motorcyles/tanning beds. It is funny how he hides behind “no religious leader would answer these sort of questions” to justify not speaking to the media. Nobody is going to ask the Dalai Lama or the Archbishop of Canterbury about their tanning bed or lavish lifestyle or beating people because they don’t. Dear Leader is a wannabe religious leader — he wannabe regarded as a bigger being than other men, he wannabe given the respect that real religious leaders are afforded and he wannabe protected from anyone exposing his sordid underwear.
Thanks for putting this into perspective for me Thoughtful. My first reaction to this was “this doesn’t sound that bad. A bit hard to duplicate, but semi sensible.” but after reading your comment I totally see your point. Here is the leader of a religious movement that could actuall HELP the planet and he is worried about his positioning and how he will look etc. As well, he should be able to handle ANY tough questions and LAY THEM TO REST. He CANNOT! He should not be on that post and he should resign or hopefully get arrested at some point.
Well put Dan.
As you know I did not know that till last night. I thought this was a leaked photo that DM must have blew a gasket over. That he posed for it, that Cruise posed for it, to give to the media to impress them blows my mind. It is as bad as DM directing and editing that Tom Cruise insane drivel tape that was played for the IAS medal of valor event. These cats are INSANE.
I have updated the post by inserting a quotation from this blog – and another Miscavige despatch – pointed out as relevant by an observant reader:
Compare this to the type of business he was transacting that had him to busy to deal with riff raff like John Sweeney, Anderson Cooper and Larry King. Here again is from a despatch from Miscavige sent within a few short weeks of the above diatribe:
” In the last few weeks, it has not been nice. Do you know
that pimple you saw? Well, I popped it. We’re talking two guys
buying X-rated movies and masturbating simultaneously in the same
room with one being the husband and one being the wife, going
through Dean and Deluca (a gourmet mail order catalog) catalogs as
husband and wife and the bald-headed guy buying the other one
cheese as a favor. We’re talking about the guy who was on the
finance lines and refused to get you the finance issues, waiting
for R to come back so he can be permanently appointed for the rest
of the universe as the International Finance Dictator. We’re
talking about me finding out exactly what Mike was doing in 1982.
We’re talking about Marc’s op. We’re talking about me knowing
exactly what MR has been doing on his sympathizing for all the SPs
who got nothing done.”
Spot on.
The words he wrote and the look on his face (and the company he keeps in the photo) really says it all. He is more concerned about looking like the “cool” guy we all knew in school more than being a true RELIGIOUS leader. He takes it to desperation levels. When you really look at it square in the face, his behavior is quite childish.
On the contrary Mike. Tom’s profile is straight up and verticle:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/3206935/Tom-Cruise-films-stunts-at-the-worlds-tallest-building-in-Dubai.html
Yeah, and it’s as bad as the basketball-sized cod pieces on David Miscavige’s Battlefield Earth movie that he thought was so fantastic he forced all Int base staff to go see it three times in a row at a theater in Riverside.
I can understand DM. I have to admit that I had a time in my Scientology life I felt to be very big and very OT and „above“ normal human beings. This feelings I did not have before that special time in my life. It lasted only a few weeks. Happened after some auditing that evidently went wrong and restimulated something. I could handle that fast as if you have to make money and have to do it with a low level job with heavy physical work you have a good chance to destimulate.
It seems that he never had a chance to destimulate. That does not make him less responsible.
If I would not know DM and what he is and would only know from this blog about his behavior I instantly would say that this is a typical way alcoholics behave. My father had been one and other relatives too. If you have 2 options to choose from and you say I choose A then an alcoholic would give you B. Always. Best way to handle situations is to fill them up way beyond their level. Then you can get something from them you would never get from them.
Real handlings of those persons are almost impossible. My ex brother in law did drink until he no longer could hold any type of alcohol in his stomach except sparkling wine. Thus he drank sparkling wine for another year till he turned yellow and died.
Above about alcoholics is only an analogy to the state DM could be in.
If he in fact is or is not an alcoholic I do and cannot know. But looking at his skin, hair, eyes and bone structure would reveal that.
Samuel, that is exactly right. What could be easier than telling the truth about anything? It’s only hard when you have to twist and bend around the truth; in short, to lie. Ultimately it gets so difficult to lie that the only alternative is to walk out… or to just HIDE which is what yellow-belly David Miscavige prefers.
Jim,
Exactly! Precisely! I love that you wrote this. I believe this is THE WAY the war, any war will be won. And the best part is, in the end, everyone wins.
Thank you for this.
Bigawatts
This is really good, Mike. (a thumbs up) 🙂
Proud? – Proud I guess of showing Force. We’re tough guys that can and will spit in your face and punch you out. i.e. we are proud of being bullies.
TC needs to reconsider why he feels he needs to confront at that tone level. DM – well, no comment as it would be too high on the tone scale to reach him.
I only met TC once when he was with Nicole and they were both high on love. I have hope that he would recover his integrity if he would escape his ‘friend’.
It has been mentioned before by others but I’ll repeat here – there are some serious valence issues in play as demonstrated by that photo and other actions we have become aware of.
I hope they both read this.
david
I think it’s an attractive picture………for a gay bar. Nuf said.
Marty,
Uggghhh. That DM dispatch sure tries one’s ability to admire the most disgusting things.
That, along with this ‘wild one’ photo…hard to look, let alone admire. Oook, what’s that on my shoe? Oh, it’s Dave’s picture and dispatch from the Bunker. Why can’t I just step in dog doo!? It smells better and is easier to find something to like.
Yes, except he was never in school…
It’s hard for a sane person to understand the Miscavige mind-set. The tendancy of a social person is to want to somehow find a way to give him the benefit of the doubt. To be reasonable. To not confront how absolutely fucked- up, spiteful, arrogant, delusional, hateful, greedy and paranoid this guy really is.
Unfortunately the same now applies to Tom Cruise. He lives and breathes COB.
The above photograph displays an arrogant, power-hungry, MEST-oriented, self-loving JOKE on the right, and a very able, once extremely powerful, creative person, who has become a vaccuum for trouble, overwhelm and deceipt on the left.
DM has installed a false arrogance in TC, and at the same time, has all but destroyed his career, making him the butt of many jokes, planet-wide. And let’s not forget that TC did more in 2005 to hurt Scientology’s planet-wide image than all other “psych” or “government” attacks combined since the religion’s inception.
Thank you, Marty, for continuing to expose this shit.
Same with you, Mike.
With respect,
IO
“Too close for beer… Going straight to vodka!” 🙂
George,
You might look at Professional Auditor’s Bulletin 15, Acceptance Level Processing. It’s got some interesting data on alchoholics and cravings and such. Write to me if you’d like.
Yes, embarrassing & brutal, and I must appologize to my husband and friends I left there – keeping my code of honor and violating it at the same time (by deserting a comrade in need).
which reminds me, has DM ever done any mest work since taking the title of COB? has he ever rolled up his sleeves and actually got his hands dirty? can anyone answer that question? or am i lead to believe that everyone else does all the mest work while he sits on his ass, dictating to others what to do?
Steve.
Very good points, Tommy TT had the impossible job of telling the untruth, not sure that anyone, not even Baghdad Bob can succeed doing that forever.
The VE is dramatizing what Sue Wilhere shockingly stated: DM = Scientology. I don’t think he has a problem on Phase 1 as he does micromanage most things. Phase 2 is much better as he can then easily shift the blame, even though it’s been drilled and so forth as he knows “everyone is agin him”. But being in front of the cameras and now having to conceal/lie/not answer/Q&A the increasing amount of controversy his actions have resulted in is truly a real life and no TC Hollyweird Mission Impossible.
Hi Marty;
Intersting comments by DM considering that even LRH permitted interviews.
I guess he is attempting to position LRH ‘diwnward’ in his own, DM’s, mind. Another failure.
Didn’t LRH come up with some tech on how to lie to the media? Weren’t they called “reporter TRs” or something like that? TR-L? Only tell “acceptable truths” aka “white lies” or something like that.
“Sara — I take it this is a rhetorical question? Can you imagine how he would squirm being asked about beating people? Or the private jet/cars/motorcyles/tanning beds. ”
You know, he might squirm about things like that, but, he’d survive it, even speaking honestly. But, it’d be much harder for him to face questions about murder, false-imprisonment, corruption of public officials, obstruction of justice, perjury, money laundering, witness tampering, extortion of any of a hundred other crimes committed in the name of the ‘Church’ of Scientology.
‘Squirm Factor’ would be an understatement. But, if he had his TRs in, nobody would see him sweat 🙂
Joe Lynn
I wonder who that motorcycle is titled to?
Marty, for those who are not so familiar with DMspeak ™, “the bald-headed guy” is Marc Yager (most often referred to by DM as “Cueball”), the guy he is “buying cheese for” is Guillaume Lesevre (most often referred to as “The cheese-eating frog”), the guy who was on the finance lines is Wendell Reynolds, and of course, the “MR” is me.
Yeah, I know. But DM is so arrogant he thinks its everyone else that is out of step. Of course, everyone else is, according to him, a “peanut thetan” and there are only a few “big thetans” like him and Tom. But, that’s not so weird when you consider he told two people I know personally that he (Dave) has his “own meter read” and he developed his own “copper wire discharge technology” which we will cover in an upcoming installment. Looney Toons was the right ballpark for sure.
Nice touch — the ‘trademark’
lol – wut?
Surely Dear Leader KNOWS that silver is a much better conductor at normal temperatures than mere copper?
Or would that be *inurement*? 😉
Somebody once said to me that leaving Scientology was a sad experience for him because he had to leave behind his friends.
I responded that leaving Scientology was not a sad experience for me, because there was not anyone there I left behind that I considered a friend.
Including a movie idol and a drunk ill tempered high school dropout named David Miscavige that smacks his PC’s in their faces.
If I was ever getting auditing and my auditor smacked me in my face…to be continued.
to mrinder, what do you mean by “own meter read” can you explain . isn’t there there only one way to get a read on a meter? standard tech?
David,
You are correct in principle, but you are not describing what DM is doing.
The Church is not saying “The Chairman does not respond to requests for media interviews. Please speak to our Public Relations department”.
Dm is saying – uh, sorry make that, DM is screaming at the top of his lungs “Tell those fucking wankers from the fucking media that they can fuck right off right the fuck now! Fuckers!”
It’s not quite the same thing, is it?
A lot of people say bad things about that movie “Battlefield Earth”, that is was the biggest box office flop of all time and a whole list of things that are wrong with the film.
People don’t remember LRH wrote the book the movie was based on. When I went to see the movie I didn’t care that John Travolta was to play the lead role, I went because I was being entertained by LRH himself with one of his latest masterpieces of fiction. I can’t see any harm in that.
I enjoyed the movie. I like LRH stuff.
@Jethro: if you think he did, produce links to the documents demonstrating it. I’ll bet you’ve never seen any such.
Michael A. Hobson
Mike are we then to infer that in addition to redefining the FM miscavige has also renamed the Rock Slam? As in “the dave?”
lunamoth
@Mike Rinder: DM’s has his own personal e-meter read? I supposed that would be a “Floating Rockslam” (Rockslam so big you can’t keep it on the meter dial).
Michael A. Hobson
The thing that is so illogical here that no scientific thinker will grasp regarding Tom Cruise and David Miscavige is:
“Why do they think they need to bully and malign Sea Org members for?”
You cannot clear the planet without an organized effort to do it and at this point I believe the U.S. government stands a better a chance of taking over the responsibility of clearing the planet and getting better results than Scientology does.
It is exactly that narcissism at its zenith. And virtually nothing else.
Tom Cruise and David Miscavige are just a temporary thing on the future track of Mankind’s eternity.
Tony:
It pains me to say this because I like to say that I see a little good in all people somewhere to help our lives along.
But I look at David Miscavige and Tom Cruise and I honestly tell myself in trust “I cannot stand these two guys!” If I didn’t know the truth behind the Scientology story I might seem like I didn’t know what I was talking about and would be in the same fate as the dedicated Sea Org members these 2 punks bully like major bosses of the labor union.
Tom Cruise can go get a second face lift or something for all I care, but David Miscavige if he is going to lead the people that are going to lead the planet, he has to be replaced.
I know a good one. I used to live on the next block from Christopher Street in New York on West 10th Street. I know a couple of good ones.
But if I was to go over there with that picture and ask any one of them Ty’s, Boots & Saddles, Monster Bar “Could you please hang this picture in here?” I know I would get for an answer “Get the heck out of here with that picture we’re not putting that garbage on our wall”.
Most of those bars only put muscle studs or drag queen pictures.
Is playing golf or scuba diving mest work? Then again the caddy lifts the bag and deckhands help with lifting the air tanks.
Marty:
This was a dispatch that DM actually sent to you and others at the INT Base without any fear of what you thought or what your response might be?
These days, having to have insurance makes it difficult to mess around with vehicular titles and registration.
If so, then DM is much stupider that many people originally anticipated.
NOT Because of if it was sent to YOU, but to ASSUME that everyone at INT agrees that Mark Yager and Guillaume Lesevere do this kind of thing all the time.
It is apalling.
Nothing like some intimate male bonding.
I have said this at least 50 times. ANY truly health conscious person will take one look at David Miscavige and just from his skin color alone KNOW that he drinks a great deal.
Congratulations to you!
And not just the color. The texture as well. The pores and such.
Pure science behind it, not DM and Tom Cruise drunken charade theories.
Perhaps the last time he was put on “mest work” was in late ’78 when LRH busted DM (cameraboy), Norman Starkey (producer) and Pat Murray (gaffer) for submitting a video which was considered Joking and Degrading. Part of DM’s amends was to get Rifle (LRH’s house at La Quinta) de-fiberglassed.
DM’s ineptitude at PR is extraordinary. Having claimed COB status of the “world’s fastest growing religion” he could easily get cover stories in Forbes and every other business magazine out there. Successful people would want to know why why CoS is the “world’s fastest growing religion” and how DM manages growth. Of course, DM does not have real growth or quantifiable results. Scientology has not transformed Culture or Enlightened the Planet because it has purchased 20 buildings and called them Ideal Orgs. Purchasing property is easy if one has money. To merely own real estate does not mean anything.
By way of comparison, when est was at its peak Werner Erhard was on the cover of 1000’s of magazines and did interviews with all major television and print journalists. Werner took est into Harvard Business School and Harvard Divinity School and many other universities. He challenged academics to research est. Werner funded the travel of Buddhist monks to the US, the work of physicists doing work in Consciousness, and funded many other New Age projects of the era.
Conversely, CoS never expanded outside of itself and has never tested its methods. LRH kept CoS insular and DM only made it worse. There is no transparency in CoS. There is phony PR and the same old tiresome videos of DM opening Ideal Orgs — as if opening a building proves anything other than the fact that CoS can organize a ribbon-cutting ceremony. Any civic group, private company, or government agency can organize a a ribbon-cutting ceremony on a new building. That is easy to do. What matters, however, is what happens after the ribbon is cut, the cameras are gone, and life has to continue on.
The “Ideal Orgs” are basically leftover props from DM’s videos. Whatever goes on in these largely empty buildings is beside the point in DM’s quest to open more buildings so he can be in more videos where he is seen opening buildings.
Opening Orgs is DM’s service facsimile.
DM will not face the cameras in a media interview. He cannot do it. There is too much at stake, too much that could go wrong for him. What DM does is to do speeches where he talks and everyone in the room listens and claps. That will cease as DM continues his slide into irrelevance and unpopularity.
DM is a fly by night operator who grabbed the reins of a well-funded organization. Money and the misguided loyalty of Scientologists allowed him to last longer than most glib high school drop outs.
Like all other vampires, DM cannot live in the Day Light. A new day is rising and DM is found scurrying into the darkness of yet another CoS event where paid extras are needed to applaud the smallish, banal, tedious dictator.
/////
Is it just me or does DM always talk like he’s on drugs? I can’t imagine sitting in a five hour meeting listening to that gobble-dee-gook (and expected to make sense of it).
What a nice looking couple. When is the wedding ?
I’ll say. I’ll bet ANYONE can have a better time at Ty’s on New Year’s Eve that at an IAS party event.
Bwahahahahahah 😆
Davey Dance: erratic slashing of the needle hitting the pins so hard as to make a peculiar pinging noise, sometimes even known to vibrate the table (for those OT enough to perceive such).
OMG Tom’s got that gaunt, please feed me a sandwich, hounded look that Mike used to have!
Mike — That would be logical, but nothing around him is logical. From the description given to me by others, they said it was a Rocket Read, but the Master of Lost Tech(c) saw something others didnt see (who knows what?) and proceeding to expound upon the “fact” that this “special read” was unique to his big thetanship. I will say this — he IS unique.
It is not hard at all.
No KRC + Money to Burn = David Miscavige
Good guess luna. I know this and Mike Hobson’s response were tongue in cheek, and it is something that certainly falls into the category of a massive outpoint that any normal person would rightfully reject. I gave some more details in my response to Mike. One person who has posted here in the past is one of the people that Dear Leader told this to. Perhaps he will see this and chime in.
The photo begs and screams for a caption: “Unnatural and extremely close BFF”
And don’t forget extreme Arrogance.
🙂 Me too! Thank you!
Lawrence,
Good question.
IMO I don’t believe that DM had the goal of Clearing the Planet and pretense ended after the coup in the mid ’80’s. It became ‘how to avoid being found out about’ and that takes money and implants.
I wonder what he sees when he looks at an SO member.
david
My comments to those two is sick
Not just you…anything I’ve seen is just psycho babble. Even when he’s speeching at events it’s psycho babble. Yuk!
Awh Jeeezzzz and they are both wearing matching black shirts…. again!
Do you really think that? That the two of them are getting married? C’mon? Really? I don’t.
But what I do think is that possibly to prevent the spread of rumors that the two of them could secretly be “planning a private wedding” this is part of the reason why accusations at INT by DM are so random.
People’s out ethics and overts always speak louder than they do.
But I would not genuinely be in my own point of view if I were to say the two of them were getting married. Alright, maybe just for a second, for a laugh.
What color should the invitations be cream or rose?
What about the table centerpieces, they must be flowers that are in season.
And the brides maid?
The best man’s clothes?
Would David Miscavige ever be so kind of a gentleman as to lend one his expensive suits to the best man to wear at his and Tom’s wedding?
That’s it. I have said enough.
I actually laughed out loud!!
Thanks CD for your humor.
WH
3 Xs !!!!!!
RU serious!!!!
I couldn’t get through it once.
Without serious impairment to my vision and acute nausea.
Forcing someone to see that turkey 3 xs in my book qualifies as torture!
Don’t get me wrong.
The book is great.
In fact I sat up all night reading it.
But the movie sucks so bad that it could create an event horizon as a black hole vortex!
Sheeeeesh!!!!!
I suspect the evil twin of Satan probably consulted on that movie like he did on that hysterical Cruise vid……
‘scuse me…
Bawahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
That picture positioning himself as the Richard West of Scientology is just too priceless as well.
Well I guess there’s not much difference between the HAs and the Church of Scientology these days ‘cept maybe their choice of ride.
For what it’s worth I view all of this as nothing short of spiritual warfare. That begs the question: Which side will win for the benefit of everyone? Truly I sense we are in the midst of it. Here’s a song that came to mind. To be continued and concluded…..
Alcohol is in the same category as drugs just about.
At least on the NED D/RD it addresses the effects of drugs and alcohol on a person’s case.
You don’t know for sure what kind of dope Tom Cruise might be giving to him or putting in his drinks when he’s not looking that maybe makes him talk that way.
You don’t know for sure what kind of stuff he could be taking.
Sorry- Here’s a direct link.
I think the Southpark episode about Scientology, did hurt its image more than TC’s couch jumping and other shenanigans, because it had only indirectly to do with Scientology.
On the other side TC did also a lot to promote Scientology pre 2005.
Without its celebrities Scientology would have rarely ever got any mention in the mainstream media at all.
This is after all the reason for the existence of celebrity centers, to get celebrities in and use them to promote Scientology.
No other religion gives film star celebrities this preferential treatment that they get in Scientology.
Are you talkin’ about a stage 4 there Mikey?
They’re pretty unique reads that’s for sure!
Betcha Davy has one of those interspersed with an intermittent.
Especially if you ask him for an L1 item like for example:
“Consider committing overts against Mary Sue Hubbard?”
Mike, I saw this “read” too. DM showed it twice in my presence. Once was in the WDC conference room and once in the RTC lounge. He demonstrated how he could willfully make the meter read (it was like a rocket read). He did it several times. But when we were all supposed to have our eyeballs glued to the needle reaction, I watched Dave and could tell that he was physically doing something to cause it (like taking in a deep breath or holding his breath). There was absolutely no point to his little demonstration, aside from how HE was active on the meter and other people holding the cans were “dead” and “unresponsive”.
Samuel, Thoughtful, Sinar, yes, yes, yes…
DM is a THUG, a batterer and an Abuser.
DM stops short of lying on National TV the way he sent those lying affidavits to the St. Pete Times. Lying and denying his beatings on National TV could dearly cost his credibility.
He can’t be interviewed because he cannot answer questions on his beatings. And the media know all about the Abuse.
Heck, the CNN show called it “Scientology, a History of Violence.”
Amy Scobee earlier posted:::::::::
Do you know that David Miscavige had the Int Management staff do 2 hour confronts of HIS photograph? Pin his mug up on the wall and sit there with perfect TR0, “confronting” it for 2 hours straight. Re-start the 2 hours if you have any reaction (such as dope-off, which was the most common reaction).
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The squirrel TRO to stare at DM’s image displays the MIND of an implanter.
##########
A Mission holder talked to friend of mine about how his sales kept falling through. After a prospect was all jazzed up to buy a bunch of books and start on the TRs course, there was a disconnection and no return phone calls.
My friend explained to the Mission Holder that the prospect looked up the WEB to find out what Reviews and INFO they could get on the Dianetics, Scientology. Once they read the Internet, it was a deal breaker.
No longer can a Religion or a Business, Enterprise pump out their message, even if it is a good slogan such as “Know Thyself.”
The Informational Digital Age gives the world a multi-viewpoint system.
Google, Facebook, Twitter, Message Boards, BLOGS, Digg and so on give a WIDER picture of ANY given subject matter.
I wonder to myself how many Newbies immediately read of INT BASE thuggery and ABUSE and DM Beatings and fled the Reg cycle before they even STARTED.
The old cliches~
You can’t un-ring the sound of the BELL.
You never get a 2nd chance, to make a 1st IMPRESSION
I dont know why I am writing this. Perhaps it just describes the thoughts that first come to mind when I see the words of DM and his narcissism comes shining through.
Like Caligula, DM will get what he has coming. Some day, someone will be pushed too far. He will hit or demean the wrong person. And in return will come the net effects of a motivator that he thought impossible. Tyrants have an usually high mortality rate.
Caligula was done in by his own praetorian. I see no less happening to the short man. Perhaps not with daggers in a tunnel, like Caligula, but with any number of modern day preparations in law which capable hands will deliver with equal force.
I don’t know why, but I feel it is coming.
Centurion
So THAT’s the moment of prior confusion for DM. The moment he decided to “show LRH”. I feel I finally have found the last piece of puzzle.
I am so sorry at this point in time that I spent well over 25 years in the Church of Scn. , as a Mission Holder/ED in Rochester, NY, in the SO, and on staff in DC. What a fucking BIG overt on my part as I continue to read these blogs here. I dragged my daughter’s off to the SO because I thought it was the greatest good. It wasn’t and it kicked me in the teeth, and still does. I got into SCN. to handle my life, and here I am years later still trying to figure it out and still answering for my decision to be a “Scientologist”. I do not have issues with Ron. Never will…I believe in the tech, and have the ability to read betweeen any lines. BUT…since David Miscaviage and the Tom Cruise fiasco’s, I do not want any part of the Church. I’m sick and tired of having to answer for these 2 assholes from hell. Karma is a bitch, and may they rot in hell. ~
And black silk French tailor-made monogrammed thongs too!?!?!
Oh god, I need a break…..
to sinar, 1978 wow, that’s a long time for no mest work. i guess all play and no work makes dm a dull boy lol
Right.
Anybody can answer these questions, huh? Then why don’t they? All I hear are the same tired old denials that just don’t wash anymore. (Your staff referring me to read the latest Freedom magazine does not help me either – I want actual answers not puerile smear). Sticking your fingers in your ears screaming La La La La La!! in the face of all these accusations will not make them go away.
“An Organization MUST answer people’s questions. This is the primary public complaint – that Scientologists in the Organization or out won’t answer directly questions asked about this or that. Understand it, answer it, make friends.” — LRH, HCOB 16 June 1957 PEOPLE’S QUESTIONS
It is time for you leave, Mr Miscavige.
You have failed.
Assuming that the reports that DM has physically attacked other members of the church is true, this question is for Mike Rinder.
Mike,
Can you remember the first time Dave struck you and what was going through your head afterwards?
Also, if the allegations of DM’s abuses are false, why hasn’t he sued Marty or Mike for slander?
Or is he and I haven’t read about it yet.
But this is heresy within the church.
“Anyone” Knows that the only kinds of reads that there really are on an E-Meter ever are the one’s LRH says there are, and no other. And if anyone does not know, then it ought to be known that it should be known.
It doesn’t matter really what if anything DM sees when he sees a Sea Org member because any of his responses indicate he is not seeing what is actually present.
Larry,
The USG already has.
And look at the result!!!!
Karen:
I had never even heard of David Miscavige until the year 2002.
I never even heard of OSA until 2002.
I never even knew another critic existed until 2002.
The only exposure I ever had to ANY kind of Scientology criticism was a television show aired way back when I was in school that gave a brief interview with a woman named Nan Mclain that was claiming someone from the Church of Scientology was sending her shark’s teeth in the mail with written slogan’s to accompany the teeth that said “We’ve been looking for you, and now we’ve found you”. That and the arrest of Mary Sue Hubbard covered in Newseek magazine is the only exposure I ever got to any kind of critical talk about Scientology from the time in 10th grade when I first read DMSMH and 2002 when I decided to Google OT III one day.
This in spite of the fact that during that period of no knowledge whatsoever on my part of how to communicate what was going on in Scientology with me at that time, I was jumped and beat up by 2 people from OSA at the New York Org after I was invited there to discuss why I was inquiring about why my account no longer had any money in it, even though I was never declared an SP.
I should have known better I guess.
amy, sounds like some sort of weird metab thing, i bet people weren’t metabbing, not sessionable, either lack of sleep or food etc.
AC — Not sure, maybe 1998. What was going through my head? “What did I do to cause this?” As for why he hasnt sued anyone who has said this (and it is not just me and Marty — at LEAST Jeff Hawkins, Amy Scobee, Bruce Hines, Tom DeVocht, Mat Pesch, Steve Hall and many others have said the same thing publicly), the answer is simple: Truth is an absolute defense to a claim of slander or libel.
Thoughtful,
It’s probably a combination of the two.
There’s also a third possibility and that is that they might reveal him as an egotistical blustering moron that doesn’t know dick shit about the Religion he’s supposedly the great leader of like Ted Koppel did on Night Line.
Right Kathy. I agree. To state anything else would be a lie on my part.
I was never at the INT Base and have never met DM personally but I have certain trust in people that have.
That is what I think.
That is why I am not afraid of any Scientologist that believes the public is just nothing short of eager to hear their made up stories in support of justice.
Very good point Mike. Very good.
No he did not. That was a Guardian’s Office invention.
That was my point.
Message from DM:
The beating will continue until morale improves. That is all.
Larry,
I’m pretty sure that the legend in his own mind has a standard needle phenomenon and I’m pretty sure it ain’t an F/N.
An RR if that is what the lil’ dickweed is getting from the earlier comments would indicated he’s stuck in an implant of some kind which doesn’t seem unlikely.
Actually a 53 and a 40X to F/Ning and all of the grades he bypassed to EP and of course V & Va would do wonders for the lil’ bastard.
All he is really is a mass of circuits and GPMs.
(I won’t say overts because he’s probably convinced that he doesn’t commit them.
In which case running Js on Grade 4 may actually be lengthier than R3SC)
Of course one of the other “zillions of technical specialists” that he now has no use for since the release of the Golden Age of Sodomy or GAS could have figured this out which is probably why he doesn’t want ’em around unless he can degrade ’em.
Why?
Because he feels his so special and he wants to keep it.
End of story.
Sad really.
While all of have moved on.
Some kids going to be picking up this flat rock lying by some stream or lake and not even realize that the rock was once the “Pope of Scientology” littered around the shore with all his “friends”.
He could mock up this special read by clenching his butt cheeks on his “special thong”, thus getting a rocket read type of reaction. This is what I heard anyways, from someone clos to him…
For some reason, all that comes to mind when I look at this photograph and read Miscavige’s dictates is Monty Python’s Life of Brian. The whole thing is that surreal — Miscavige is that out of touch.
In the photograph, with his hand on Miscavige’s shoulder, it’s as if Miscavige has Cruise saying:
“This is my vewy good fwend, David”.
“You all leave my fwend alone.”
“He wanks highest in all the wealm.”
I don’t find it arrogant.
What I see is the desperate rambling of a lunatic caught with his pants down who needs to give every impressive and arrogant sounding excuse he can come up with to avoid being confronted on national TV (with his pants down).
DM is close to having the world pointing and laughing at his sexy wee thong and the fear is palpable.
Looks like arrogance, smells like a hidden terror of others…
What is this guy smoking?
Well, lets look at this way:
If you were a leader of a religion known all other the world with connections and friendships with celebrities like Tom Cruise with financial resources in the 100’s of millions, if not over the billion mark and some ex staff members where going from TV show to TV show telling the world that you were physically beating people up wouldn’t you sue those ex staff members for slander?
If you were in that position, what would cause you not to sue those people for slander?
What if it was the truth and you had done those acts?
Would you sue them for slander?
Why isn’t David Miscavige suing Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Jeff Hawkins, Amy Scobee, Bruce Hines, Tom DeVocht, Mat Pesch and Steve Hall for slander?
What’s he waiting for?
Is there any other possible reason for his not suing them for slander other than his being guilty?
Sam,
Ouch.
Jim 🙂
Hi Lawrence,
Sorry, I don’t understand the point you are making here. Except for the point that you don’t like dm and tc which I totally duplicate and understand.
At Cause.
Exactly correct.
Eventually this exact question is going to become intolerable to Dear Leader. More and more will ask, “Why havent you sued them?” and in the end he may lash out and do so, even though he knows he won’t win. It will put off the inevitable for a while, and with expensive lawyers and an unlimited budget, he could try and bludgeon us into submission. But it will be a last, desperate,irrational act because what he fears more than anything is being taken into deposition and having to answer questions under oath. And if he sues for libel or slander, it is the first thing that would happen and he could not avoid it. And he knows the world would be watching that.
He keeps painting himself into a smaller and smaller corner. As long as he refuses to participate in any media interviews to respond to what is being said, the interest grows. If he were in deposition the media would be swarming all over it. He’s scared to do any media interviews, but he COULD lie (though he is worried that everyone will see him as a liar) with little impact other than to damage his ego. But his ego is an all-consuming demon that drives him to insane actions. This is his own GPM he is creating. And truly, at this point, he is screwed no matter which way he goes. If he does media he will be pummeled and made to look like a weasely liar (Tommy Two Tone will look like Walter Cronkite in comparison). If he doesnt, he will be increasingly percieved as a coward and hit with “why don’t you sue them?” And if he sues, he will have to answer all the questions under oath and the media will still be watching and reporting (though he would try to keep his testimony sealed he won’t win that battle — after all, this is his chance to “set the record straight”).
In truth, if he had any balls at all, he would front up to Anderson Cooper and try to bluff his way through an interview (if he went on Larry King these days everyone would call him a chickenshit — Larry can’t even remember his guest’s names half the time). But that’s a big ‘if”.
GOD I LOVE YOU
Yes, I would say that was the isness of the situation.
I would say you hit the nail on the head Mike.
1. If David Miscavige did take Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Jeff Hawkins, Amy Scobee, Bruce Hines, Tom DeVocht, Mat Pesch and Steve Hall to court, wouldn’t they then have the right to subpoena people and documents?
2. If David Miscavige did take them to court, isn’t it possible that he would be required to testify under oath?
3. If the accusations were true and he were required to testify under oath, wouldn’t he have to lie under oath?
4. What would happen to David Miscavige if he was found to be lying under oath?
Could all this be the reason why David Miscaivge doesn’t sue them for slander?
Amy, are your freaking kidding me? Anybody who has ever solo audited knows that you can get falls on yourself. Sheesh.
Having to watch BattleField Earth three times is INHUMANE. I actually think that it is a felony in some states. That movie was a real stinker and is the laughing stock of the movie biz
Well said – the GPM technology is quite amazing. BTW, my first MU in Scientology was “R3D XX” (Routine 3D Criss Cross). One of my parents mentioned it when I was eight, and I loved the name. I finally cleared it when I did my Level II – It took about a week of intensive research into the (newly released) Tech Vols to get it figured out enough to move forward. Of course, the BC brought it home.
BTW, if you really want to know if Scientology works, screw up a list, especially on something as hot as Goals Terminals. Then, correct the list. Of course, getting the list right in the first place will show a very happy PC when the item is gotten and run, but screwing up the list is far more dramatic. Just have the chops to correct it later. You will see amazing things.
It is like “Crossing the streams” in Ghostbusters:
Dr. Egon Spengler: There’s something very important I forgot to tell you.
Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Don’t cross the streams.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I’m fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean “bad”?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously, and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Dr. Raymond Stantz: Total protonic reversal!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Right, that’s bad. Okay, alright, important safety tip, thanks Egon.
It’s kind of like that!
Mike said: “(Tommy Two Tone will look like Walter Cronkite in comparison). ” Awesome line. This is a classic.
This is a great point of why doesn’t dm sue the people that are telling “lies” about him. Not that I would want that for my friends but it sure makes dm look bad. If this became a mantra maybe he could be bullbaited into sueing and then we could all chip in and help our friends with legal costs. Get dm to lie in court and accelerate his dwindling spiral.
Remind me not to piss you off Sam.
I want to die at some point with a shred of my masculinity in tact..
🙂
Take it easy Mike, I’m just asking a question, not stating a fact. If I had known the answer, I probably wouldn’t have asked it, but I had seen “reporter TRs” mentioned on various sites critical of the C of S and/or LRH. I would think that people like Marty and Mike and others that frequent this site would be in the know on such matters because of where they worked. Anyhow, Marty answered my question, but FWIW, I did find a document that appears to be the infamous “reporter TRs” issue, and it appears that Hubbard had no direct involvement (to the degree that Internet documents can be trusted), but it’s obviously based on the works of LRH:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/CoS/reporter-trs.txt
Also, here’s an interesting write-up I found that Vaughn Young did on reporter TRs:
http://www.holysmoke.org/rvy/26.htm
Anyhow, there are many things LRH has written such as the confidential computer advices which are not on the Internet, and they probably never will be, but it doesn’t mean that he didn’t write them. Anyone who’s seen them can vouch for that, but they will never be able to produce a link to such documents. People have written about them though (Vaughn Young and Chuck Beatty have written about them). Mostly things like the computer advices are confidential for legal and PR reasons.
Karen #1: “I wonder to myself how many Newbies immediately read of INT BASE thuggery and ABUSE and DM Beatings and fled the Reg cycle before they even STARTED.”
At least one.
Here’s a very recent story for you: A friend (who I first “met” while doing nightwatch 25 years ago [she called in (then) about midnight and told me her story; I as an auditor, listened]) called me a few days ago to check out her most current boyfriend. (Her challenges include selecting an appropriate 2D, but her biggest challenge is maintaining contact with PT i.e. can’t control a thought line: needs objectives badly.)
This particular dude, of several days ago, happened to be a “Scientologist”. She thought that was cool, because I am a Scientologist and she highly respects me. As for him: Outpoints: 1) she met him on a “[sex] chat line”, 2) he “found” her ID in his car a day after a drive with her, necessitating her seeing him again.
OK, so most people would say this girl has an IQ of 85. (Her ex husband certainly did.) She has learning challenges, and, as I said, really needs objectives, but here’s what she did (after the guy nicks her ID and uses it as a ruse to see her again): she calls me and tells me the story. I tell her “Dump him”, but, she sees him again, has a good time, and he tries to get her on lines. She looks up Sci online, sees the stuff about Miscavige, is aghast and calls me to confirm – which I do. What she does tomorrow I do not know, but the point is that even a challenged person (it is only with considerable difficulty that she can read) can sense the madness going on within the sphere of Scientology AND WILL STAY AWAY!
OSA: take that one to the bank!
OSA: You’ve let potential (not to mention “former”) Sciemtologists down by backing the wrong horse.
I say it again: A challenged person can see the sit. So what will a Scientologist (with a good ability to reason) see? Only the gawdawful mess created by Messcavige and perpetrated by you spineless fools. (I should say something kinder than “you spineless fools”, but the treasonous activities of you “pink legs” people makes me want to spit!)
So there you have it: A Newbie who could see the abuse and doesn’t even start. (And just in case, OSA, you’re wondering why I didn’t get her on-lines: I did bring her to a few events in the 80s. She would have gladly signed up for services, but her ex refused her. By the time she finally ditched her ex, I had left and would NOT have brought any friend in (and that was 20 years ago!)).
One more time, OSA:
A NEWBIE CAN SEE IT!
Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
Obviously the formula auditor + pc is greater than the pc’s bank doesn’t work in his case because no auditor on earth could possibly be big enough to match with him.
No wonder the only choice he has left is a copper grounding wire to something as large as he is – like a planet… Then again, it must be frustrating for him because earth isn’t really all that big either… it’s just a small planet, minor star system, outside edge of the galaxy.
Dave,
Don’t be tho thenthative… (limp wrist)
Regardless of how far from the truth, or how near to the truth dm’s anecdote is, the real truth is that when you suppress a dynamic as hard as the 2nd Dynamic is suppressed at Int, you are going to get aberration. Little or BIG. (Geez, big news!)
I’m sure there is appropriate auditing (and I don’t mean just sec checking) that would help de-aberrate anyone succumbing to a suppressive environment (such as dm’s anecdote would suggest they have.) It’s their case and they can sort out the truth or lies with their auditors and C/S.
I didn’t like what GL did on AC360, but with what those guys have been through, I’d give them a significant break. Ethics is only needed to the degree that tech WON’T go in.
DM is setting the stage to promote aberration. Let’s just work to unmock and nullify his stage.
We were trained on Reporter TRs from our earliest briefings at WHQ in 1977. Reporter TRs have been done by Base staff ever since, to my knowledge. I tend to agree with Marty that they were a GO invention. I never saw LRH say anything about them. But they did not teach you to lie but to deflect the questioner’s attention off the subject of the question. E.g.:
Reporter: Are you a cult?
Gold staff member: We’re a lot of things. We hold events for the local hospitial. We donate to the Police Athletic League. We even had a float in the 4th of July parade.
That’s a crude example.
For info, Werner Erhard’s name used to be Jack Rosenberg. He was on the HSDC as San Francisco Org in 1969-70 when my twin in the TRs film, Roger, aka Waldo (still mowing lawns at Gold, bless him) was on staff there. Rosenberg had a plant on the HSDC at the Berkeley Mission the same time as I was on it (name of Margaret) and she later stole a bunch of HCOBs and blew. I don’t think it is any secret that est owed its success to LRH principles and tech lifted from orgs. Then, in 1982 or thereabouts, LRH advised Management to do a study of est marketing to find out what made it so successful. I don’t recall now if he knew the had ripped off a bunch of his stuff. Without LRH and the San Francisco Org there would have been no Werner Erhard.
The bright ideas of the GO sure paid off for them didn’t it? Only 10 or 11 of them went to federal prison instead of 15.
If you had ever seen the way the GO used to patrol the New York Org it would scare you. It was like the Gestapo was walking around complete with slanted hats and trench coats.
Exactly… Probably DM crack= very addictivc like non-filter Camel cigarettes and very expensive scotch from Scotland, once hooked always hooked.
The movie sucked.
The book, “Battlefield Earth”, was fun to read!
Here is TERL talking. Press the button …
http://battlefieldearthcollector.webs.com/terltoy.htm
… “Ratbrain!” … “I am a psychlo of my word.” …
LRH wrote some good fiction.
“Ole Doc Methuselah” and “Final Blackout” are two others which I liked.
Am I the only person completely bored by the continual whining, moaning and bitching about “DM” all the time?
Y’all should re-read OTDT’s post of a couple of days ago, where he gives true examples of the force and violence used in a very large org in the 70’s.
Miscavige is the CONSEQUENCE of this culture, not the cause of it. He’s been running the church for almost 30 years (Stalin and Mao’s reign of time) and heading towards 40 or 50.
How about we go EARLIER (like we do in Scientology) and find out who and/or what created the conditions and group values that resulted in a militaristic, autocratic and ultimately repressive atmosphere.
How were conditions created that allowed Miscavige to take control of the Church of Scientology in his early 20’s WITH NO EFFECTIVE OPPOSITION? How was it that folks who were highly trained and processed like Heber supported and enabled him from the beginning?
What mistakes did LRH make either because of his own case/attitudes or in the policies/structure he set up that led to this scene that we now have (prisons, disconnection, thought stopping, etc)?
Until we decide to honestly confront the earlier causes (the mid 60’s or earlier), this scene will never be handled.
C’mon, Dan – you knew Ron near the end of his life and Miscavige at the start of his rise – help me out here.
In my opinion, David Miscavige is desperate to build a legacy of David Miscavige. He is trying to carve into stone that he personally accomplished superhuman achievements.
And he wants the David Miscavige Legacy to live on within the Church. He wants a picture of DM at events honoring the DM legacy.
But DM can not achieve this legacy goal. He is starting to recognize that once he is gone or loses Power, his name will become goose shit. When he is gone from Power, the truth about him will become exposed and revealed within the Church.
I bet he has hidden a tremendous amount of money in case he needs to “exit”. He probably has an escape plan from the Church.
Eventually, he will become exposed on Church lines. But the Church is dead.
One other question I have is, is David Miscavige gay? He seems to have some kind of homo-erotic obsession with Tom Cruise. He also is constantly making jokes about gay sex re int base staff members. I’m thinking it is his way of getting off withholds. Oh yeah, and then there’s that tanning machine and golden thong, now that’s really gay.
What guy Carol? Who do you mean?
I’m sooooooooooo glad I got outta there. But sorry too that many friends are still stuck there. The few times I saw Miscavige when he had to mingle with us peons to get something done that we of course could never do right, not knowing about his extra cirricular activities, I felt he was snotty. That was my word for it at the time. He kept calling one guy there “incorrigible.” Well, the accusation doth speak loudly. He will never become a social being worthy of a post of “religious leader.” Ever.
Yes, Jethro, David Miscavige IS gay (I thought this was well known), but we shouldn’t attack him because of his sexual orientation. As soon as he stops keeping this a secret from some people, he will probably stop accusing other people of having HIS withholds.
Joe– Why dont you get your thrills over at CaliWog’s site. You wont be bored there. There is nothing the DMbots would love more than for the discussion on this blog to revolve around what was wrong with LRH and off exposing the activities of Dear Leader. In fact, their trolls are almost uniformly sent here NOT to try and defend Dear Leader (he who cannot be defended), but to change the discussion to something else…. Now Joe, you wouldnt be trolling would you?
JJ, are you saying he’s a wanker?
If they cut communication with you, they are not your friends. Their loss. You could still flow them affinity in the theta universe. Never permit your affinity to be alloyed. Someday they will apologize to you.
Hi there Joe. If you are not posted in OSA, you certainly do their work when you attack LRH and Scientology to defend DM. DM can defend himself, unlike a deceased terminal. Since all OSA members are either blown or completely overwhelmed, I will resist the temptation to call you an OSAbot.
atcause:
1. Yes, discovery is the first action in a lawsuit. And the plaintiff has to provide discovery first.
2. Not just possible — an absolute certainty.
3. Either lie or be exposed as what he is for the whole world to see!
4. Worst case scenario — jail time. Unlikely in a civil case, but it has been known to happen. More likely — his case would be dismissed, he would be ordered to pay all attorneys fees and costs of the defendants — and worst of all, he would have a court ruling that he is a liar which would be covered in every media everywhere. This would be a large pin in his inflated ego balloon.
Grasshopper,
I recall the phrase, paraphrased, that there’s enough force in the bank to ‘bow your back, to say nothing of changing your ideas’.
I’ve experienced that force, and more importantly, its relief with the exact application of the exact right piece of tech.
Good points you ‘ve made GH. Thanks.
Spam attack was renewed coincident with the latest posting. That is David Miscavige’s response to all this.
Joe,
It’s now ‘common knowledge’ that the Purif tech is valid, though scurrilously flakked by flakkers ( or feckers). Hell, even Canadian Tire store sells saunas to ‘detoxify’.
Mike,
My personal opinion is DM cannot resist much longer. It’s mechanical and he will indeed sharpen up that pin and push it into his inflated ego balloon. He’ll take as much with him in the ‘poof’ as he can. He can’t take the ideas of Dns and Scn. They will remain and continue to provide a valid means to personal awareness and rehabilitation of ability.
In the end, when he’s gone ‘poof’ (no connotation intended) all that will remain of that valence is the hair I think. There’s so much product in it now I fear it will have a half-life longer than our Sun.
Joe P,
‘Put that book on my knee’. ‘Thankyou’.
‘Put that book on my knee’. ‘Thankyou’.
Continue to EP of Q&A handled.
(Q&A – lack of ‘beam power’, failure to complete a cycle of action, going off on a tangent with a ‘question’, as an ‘answer’. Originally came from the phenomenon that the exact answer to a question is the question if one is duplicating. Not a good thing as it meant a mere copying of what was occurring as in sort of a hynotic trance like mimicry. For example, somebody says ‘LRH mentored DM’ and parrot like, it gets repeated. DM says LRH mentored him. Hence, the issue of your affiliation. Then again, there are such things as ‘dupes’. )
What is disheartening is to hear about former friends, who I’ve not seen in years, who are still very actively auditing on Solo Nots. Having spent decades, literally on this level and countless sums of money.
They haven’t a clue about these blogs. Their willingness to seek some understanding about the heavy handed ethics, the rules that are meant only for them but clearly not for “their leader” (ie. no fraternizing with public while his BF is TC), the years spent away from family and years almost ignoring their children — ended when they bought yet another 6 month check intensive.
Too much money and time has been invested.
Unless a VERY personal situation looms in their radar – even the death of a child hasn’t done it for many – they are going to stay.
The heartening news though — there are NO masses flocking to start their bridge. In fact, there is almost no one.
Thus — in approximately 30 years, the Sandcastle will indeed be EMPTY.
As will the other Flag properties.
No matter WHAT dm does he will NOT be able to stop the grim reaper. Those friends who have stayed will have passed on.
Is the end of corporate scn going to take 30 years? Good grief I hope not.
However, I am somewhat comforted in knowing that it won’t last beyond 30 years. Thus, if I am lucky enough to live to 90 or so — I will see final chapter.
And wish for all those who never made it out in their lifetime, a rebirth wherein they can seek their own path, one that will benefit themselves and all beings.
WH
PS: We should be willing to look at this long term, recognizing that NOTHING is permanent – certainly not buildings, statuses, bodies or even enemies. Only one thing IS permanent – theta, buddhanature, Christconsciousness. All compounded phenomena is impermanent – this includes thoughts, tables, concepts, cars, bodies etc.
Tara, I thought all along that the buzzing noise in my ears was tinitus! OMG!!! I’m looney tuned into the Davey Dance!!!!!!!
Make it STOP! MAAAAKKKEEE ITTTT SSTTOOOPPP!!!
bzz_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Aaaaaaahhhhh…..
From Wikipedia: “A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an online community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks with or about himself or herself, pretending to be a different person,[1] like a ventriloquist manipulating a hand puppet.”
Michael A. Hobson
Dan, very true! It looks like the guy has nothing to do with Scientology. He is changing things like that with no heed to any Standard Whatever there! He does talk like the worst thug you can meet… He is not just non-sequitur many times but he is just off the wall! So what is that? Is Craziness for sure! Far from Understanding, ARC, anything we knew. Total Arbitrariness!! Total Un-Understandingness, totally Un-ARCing everybody!!! Totally Reversing the Hell out of Everything we knew!! This is Crazy so much that it throws you off balance to have that from “your” leader guy! You go, “what the hell is going on? Where am I? What happening to me?” And Why?
He was probably thinking of a big overt or something.
I agree and would say “self” in quotation marks, as what is there AFTER removing the charge is often NOT what was there BEFORE removing the charge. Add failed Solo Auditor to the list of his many other notable accomplishments.
To understand DM acts, I’d like to note that there is no understanding of him because it is just the way an ARC lack person operates on. His chronical tone is 1.1 and when goes upper he becomes 1.5
The below LRH exerpt on SCIENTOLOGY AND LIVING 9 7ACC-39 – 4.07.54 – PHOENIX LECTURES 253 10.01.10 enlightens the DMs personality.
“Now, to understand and predict people at large, it is only necessary for you to know
whether they make something or nothing out of things. And then remember, if you please,
that their conduct is consistent – that they are consistent in their conduct.
Now, they might have a lot of reasons why, they might be very unpredictable, but they
have a motive which underlies their conduct just to this degree: something and nothing. This
person one way or the other is going to make nothing out of everything around them. See? Or
this person, one way or the other, is going to make something out of everything around them.
Now, there are two other categories of human beings. And one is the category, upper
scale, where things can be bad or good at will; everything on Know to Sex in the upper scale
can be good, you see? But when they are on lower scale, everything on the Know to Sex
Scale – which is Mystery, there, to Sex Scale – is bad. And when you get something where
everything on the Mystery or the Know to Sex Scale is bad, you have somebody who is inverted
– very badly inverted.
And when they are consistently and continually “everything is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad,
bad” – watch out. They are well below 2.0. They’re using some kind of a mechanism: if it’s
bad, it’s bad, it’s bad, that’s why we have got to make something, you see? Or it’s bad, it’s bad,
it’s bad, that’s why we have got to make nothing. This is your 1.5. He is actually operating
there 100 percent. He can only operate on emergencies.
“We are about to have this tremendous disaster, and therefore in view of the fact that
we got this disaster, we have to have this emergency legislation, “and so forth.” And therefore
we can make something here. We can make this army so as to make nothing” – big compulsive
sort of a reaction. You see?
But it’s bad. All that reasoning is bad. The only reason we can do anything is because
something is bad. They have lost concept of doing something because it’s fun, and there’s
your last keynote.
Individuals who can do things, no matter whether good, bad or indifferent, or outrageous,
simply because they are fun – an individual who can freely and with a clear heart do
things because they’re fun is a very sane person. And he’ll be in good shape. And the amount
of laughter which a person laughs – which is, by the way, not your harmonics of laughter.
Laughter, you see, has a number of harmonics down the line. Rather upper scale laughter: a
person, he laughs, he doesn’t laugh because he’s embarrassed, he doesn’t laugh this way and
that, he laughs because he thinks something is funny. And if a person laughs fairly often, and
is very easy in that laughter, you got a sane man in your hands.
And they just go downscale and laugh less and less and less, or laugh more embarrassedly,
or compulsively or obsessively, more and more and more, as we get clear down to the
bottom.
Person down at the bottom doesn’t laugh at all. He doesn’t live, either. He just lies
there, a lump of energy, being mass, meaning and no mobility. He’s not even a symbol anymore.
The truth of that is, you go up and ask him what his name is, he can’t tell you.
Now, there, in essence, if you care to study this Chart of Attitudes, and you care to apply
this information to life as a whole, you’ll find out that you can know human beings. But
remember, you shouldn’t expect them to know you, if that communication formula is very
close together. They won’t understand you. But that doesn’t prevent you from understanding
them.
So remember that a thetan can always handle symbols. Until they are exteriorized and
in good shape – or any life form is in good shape and operating as a thetan – it is a symbol.
And symbols don’t understand. They run around and act, one way or the other.”
LRH
DM and his followers are acting as symbols !
WHAT!!!!!! ???
Div 6 is recruiting off of Sex Chat lines?????????
I guess I missed the boat by about 20 years or so….we had to bodyroute and sell books…..
That is SICK!
Y0u are a Master, Jimbo!! “Willingness to be the “other side’ “. That sums it up for me!
I have not gotten into the GPM’s. Maybe we can open a discussion in Casablanca Tejas. Thank you in any way!
TL,
Davey IS the poster boy for MEGALOMANIA.
Gary
I’ve had lunch in that room
Marty,
Yeah, its sad really. Took me 15 minutes to get rid of a whole night’s work…
I can imagine the scene. There sits Dear Leader, obsessed with your blog. He can’t ake his eyes off it.
On comes a posting (you note the reactions come only when they are personal about him — Fair Game etc he couldnt care about).
“Lou, get the c***suckers in here!”
Whoever is left that has not been blown away in the last week (I think Bob Keenan may be one of the few ‘external resources’ that is still living up to Dear Leader’s moniker, so it may just be him…)
“I have told you a hundred times you little SP, when Rathbun does something like this he has to be taught a lesson! He doesnt get away with anything without being told ‘Down dog!’. I am the only one that seems to understand this. You DBs are incapable of any intelligent thought. Now, get moving before I have Tom come in here and beat you up. Have you seen how big his muscles are??”
So off Bob trots and issues the order “Flood the blog.” What he doesnt seem to understand is that it is utterly ineffective. Or maybe he does, It lasts for a few hours or days and then stops, until something appears newly that pisses off Dear Leader again and he issue the order again. Their idea of teaching you a lesson is like firing a spitball at a battleship.
Maybe we should go through and list the IP addresses from the spam– there are about 15 different ones that are used. Someone could do a research project and track them down…
Loved the video. Carly has that mischievous and knowing smirk on her face.
This was perfect! 🙂
Joe Pendleton = sock puppet.
Jack UK that wouldn’t have been Phil at OSA UK would it? Thats’ his answer to every question he knows telling the truth about will get him DPFed or worse: “read this Freedom mag”. Phil – take a break mate. It aint going to get easier to compromise your integrity, day after day after day. Graeme has turned it into an art form. He was heard recently telling public the recent Panorama was a “win” for the Church. That’s right. 5 million Brits viewing this was a “win”:
The show demonstrated that 1) the Church breaks up families, 2) the Church is run by liars, 3) the Church will go to any expense to discredit and harass media and any whistle blowers, 4) the Church uses covert surveillance, 5) David Miscavige “one of the greatest spiritual leaders of the 13th century” (or whatever) is a poster child for Profanity-R-Us, 6) the Church prefers abortions over children, 7) the Church shamelessly manipulates celebrities into being mouthpieces, the Church uses Scientology in reverse to trigger critics into fits of hostility that they can video and use against them, 9) the Church secretly videos everyone who gets auditing from them, 10) the Church collects and uses blackmail material (just like J. Edgar Hoover) to control people.
(Assessment by Steve Hall).
Very nice points WH. 🙂
I also “heard” him when he was at the last IAS event singing to himself…
♪ ♪ ♫♫ “Do a little dance… fake a little love… bring ’em down tonight, uhuh slap slap, bring ’em down tonight, uhuh slap slap….” ♫♪ ♫
Gary :)–♫
Mike,
Personally, I find your suggestion to Joe Pendelton to go to Caliwog’s blog to get his “thrills” to be snide, condescending and arrogant when he’s simply stating honestly what’s on his mind, what he’s observed and experienced to be true and has the guts to say it.
You are doing a disservice to the purpose of this blog, to the new improved mindset of refusing to fall back into the trap of blind obedience and going along to get along mentality that was and is a big part of the whole DM mess.
To fail to acknowledge, to not-is, to attack those who bring up the subject of the violence and force that existed in the world of the Church of Scientology prior to the poisonous, implanted mentality created by DM and all those who went along with it, in an invitation to to recreate or at least perpetuate the same mindset that’s part of the big ugly robot machine that currently exists in the church.
I can agree with you that there is no need on this blog for wholesale slaughter of LRH’s character, carping criticism, unwarranted invalidation or petty insults. LRH produced an incredible body of work. Any informed, unbiased and unaberrated Scientologist realizes that LRH was not perfect, but holds no ill will towards him. I know LRH only through his writings, lectures, videos and what others have had to say about him. If LRH did or didn’t engage in or promote any form whatsoever of slapping or spitting, it does not matter to me, because I should not form my own sense of what is right or wrong based on what LRH or anyone else did or didn’t do, so I have no right to blame him for anything.
Joe Pendelton did not change the subject, as you accuse him of. The topic of this blog thread, as well as the majority of what appears on this blog in general is the church’s and DM’s arrogance, violence, abuse of power, invalidation and suppression of others, squirrel practicing of admin, tech and ethics, intolerance of others and a militaristic expectation that others should follow and agree blindly and without protest or disagreement. By refusing to tolerate dissent, by attempting to create an atmosphere that one may be labelled a troll or OSAbot if they merely state known and obvious truths, then I’m afraid you are sabotaging the possibility of creating a safe environment where an individual is not afraid of speaking up. Isn’t that the very thing that kept many execs at Int management from speaking up? Fear of being punished, labeled as DBs, that they would lose their eternity, be thrown in the hole, humiliated by DM and his blindly fawning Nazi Thought Control Squads if they were to speak up?
As the opinion leader that you are, once you insinuate without any concrete evidence whatsoever, that so-and-so is an agent of OSA sent here to disrupt this blog then you not only paint that person with the brush of mistrust and suspicion but you are helping to create a mindset that it is not OK here to widen one’s perception or viewpoint beyond arbitrarily determined boundries.
Pendelton is not denigrating LRH’s work or character by asking the valid question of what mistakes LRH may have made, particularly in the management tech, that could have set a precedent even if it was through the misunderstandings by others, that possibly laid in the cultural op basis of excess force no matter how good the intentions. Obviously, something was out or missed or misunderstood or something in order for the church to have become what it is today. Marty states that the church is dead and it very well may be. We all know it was not LRH’s intention for the church to become dead and that he set in place many, many policies to guide it towards surviving and expanding, protecting it from destruction. Yet, look at it now. Militaristic, fascistic, condescending, invalidative, squirreled, sending good people into exile, enriching the coffers and life styles of those now in charge, abusing and suppressing its long-standing loyal staff, threatening familial relationships, trying to destroy its own people. What a damn mess. Again, not what LRH or any of us who enrolled and subscribed to this game envisioned would or could ever happen.
When I posted my experiences about the force and violence I observed over the years, all of which occurred well prior to any involvement or infiltration of management by DM, it was not my intention to disparage LRH’s character. I don’t blame LRH for that whether he said to do it or not or he did it or not. I blame solely and only the individuals involved who committed any acts of excess force, physical violence or intimidation. I believe wholeheartedly in the LRH statement about how thetans got into trouble in this universe through “Too much force and not enough intelligence”. PDC lectures. No matter what LRH may have said or wrote or tolerated after that, this is what is true for me and it is the policy that I choose to follow.
To recognize these matters of which I am speaking right now is not giving amnesty to DM nor power to the enemy nor reprieving him of his horrendous acts of which he is guilty. In fact, if I was an OSA operative, I’d be happy if the vision stayed narrow and solely on DM, because I would recognize that not-isness is occurring and stupidity would reign and that’s what I would want my enemies to be, stupid. Again, “not enough intelligence” is half of the recipe combined with “too much force”.
Caliwog’s blog is a sounding board and venting station for him and his adherents to tear the subject of Scientology and LRH to shreds. I don’t advocate his presence, I don’t agree with him, but he’s got every right in the world to state his opinions, but I also believe it shouldn’t be allowed to permeate this blog. In fact, I disagree with Marty even letting him post here. He knows what that blog and Caliwog are about. Caliwog is totally and completely against LRH and Scientology, so why let him in? I disagree with Marty stating that it was inappropriate for me to have asked Caliwog the question that I did. The same PR Series 45 Failed PR that Marty referred me to applies to Marty as well and he never should have let Caliwog post here. However, on the basis of communication with an individual, PR intentions aside, if a person came to me vehemently upset about someone or something, I’d say, “Good god man, what the hell was done to you?” before I’d ever say anything like, “Now, what’s your responsibility in this? Did you do anything uncool?” Otherwise, there own upset and demand for rightness would lock me out of any possibility of actually communicating with that person.
I’m disappointed that you would throw around these accusations of others being OSA agents or bots or trolls with the same ease that DM throws around insinuations and declarations of others as being SPs.
Marty or others may come to your defense as a natural inclination and pile up on me as though I’ve committed some offense here and Marty may even ban me from communicating here, but what I’ve said here needs to be said and so be it.
Just to clarify one remaining point, I do not feel DM should be let off the hook or diverted from one tiny iota. He’s a despicable, slimy, fake, suppressive excuse for a person and should be relentlessly pursued and exposed for his crimes and made to pay the piper. The piper is demanding payment for a just invoice long overdue.
Bullshit.
He’s not a dupe if he’s willing to stand up and say what he observed, refusing to go into agreement with the exact same mindset as others. His post doesn’t say to let DM off the hook for anything, he’s looking wider than DM and including DM in that look. For anyone to say that’s an OSA viewpoint is ridiculous. There’s no call to denigrate LRH. Obviously, all of LRH’s excellent policy and tech did not prevent the church from self-destructing and being declared dead in its tracks of its purpose. To review these points, to restudy what went wrong with the church, is an act of humility and intelligence. To lock out that avenue of thought or communication can only lead to falling back into the same traps as before.
“Maybe we should go through and list the IP addresses from the spam– there are about 15 different ones that are used. Someone could do a research project and track them down…”
Good idea! Might keep some people productively busy for a while…
You’re wrong about this point being made in reference to Joe Pendelton.
There ya go Mike,
JP perfectly exemplifies OSA’s tactics used since their ARS spam attacks failed back in the late ’90’s.
Primary objective is to deflect any attention away from the corruption of policy and tech by the current actors involved in the day to day operations of what laughingly calls itself “the Church of Scientology”.
Even if it means dragging the subject and the founder through the dirt.
The fact is and JP probably knows this, is that there is no policy ever written by Ron that supports any act of violence committed by any of the individuals mentioned in OTDT’s post.
Lawrence,
I beg to differ – BE the movie is “based on the works” and does not tell the story as LRH did. The book is pretty long and required a Lord of the Rings, series type of treatment – to condense it all in one film just didn’t do the trick and totally butchered LRH’s works as there was no time enough and so gave tons of MUs & distortion of the story.
Not sure if other Int base guys saw it three times, but I certainly didn’t and it was not an enforceable order and I saw other guys watching other movies in the theater complex that I did. Went with DM and entourage to the nearby San Jacinto theater complex and they certainly didn’t watch it 3 times.
After the film was released, the director – Roger Christian was brought out to the Int Base and given a staged tour of the film & audio facilities. Along with JT and Kelly & ASI handlers (Barbara & Javier Ruiz) Roger then was given a fancy 5 course meal at LRH’s house (Bonnie View) prepared by my assistant Brigitte and I. This was the first time DM entertained VIPs at LRH’s private house. Actually the original house which was called “New Gilman House” when the Gilman property was purchased and renovated & added to was the one LRH and MSH & their children had dinners and get togethers. LRH had approved the renovations and set up of this house and had intended on returning to the Int Base and staying at this house.
The VE later razed the entire area, regraded it, installed new roads and built a mansion and complex (it has guest houses, pool & exercise structure and garage big enough for a Bluebird motorhome) on his own using outside contractors and no base crew at a cost of 30M from IAS funds. It is supposed to be a museum or sorts and so far been used to entertain the VE’s BFF and VIPs. It requires a few people now in the “Household Unit” to just maintain these huge empty facilities and grounds.
Jeez OTDT, I didnt mean to disappoint you. And in fact, I asked JP a valid question. Is he trolling as that is what I would be telling OSA to do if I was being pounded on by DM all day about every negative statement made about him.
I dont think we are operating on the same purpose, so I am not surprise there is a lack of agreement, and that really is OK too.
I am trying to salvage a subject that I consider is worth saving. Sepctator speculation about the rightness and wrongness of LRH here accomplishes nothing towards achieving that objective. So what if you satisfy yourself that the culture now being carried out by Miscavige is a result of the pattern laid out by LRH. And then what?
Nothing is going to change until Miscavige is gone — whether he is the source of the problem or not. You might even agree to that proposition. So, the primary target to any changing of the scene is Dear Leader out of the picture. Discussion about anything else is pointless. But, if someone wishes to engage in that and speculate about it, there ARE places where they won’t be bored with the exposes of the current scene under Dear Leader.
If JP is bored, he doesnt have to come to this blog. He can go to CaliWog or he can watch the Three Stooges or take his dog for a walk.
As for whether he was “just asking a question” — re-read his comment. He was stating a fact that he was bored about reading about Miscavige and wanted to read some juicy stuff about Hubbard. I sent him to the right place.
And since you asked– I was in the Sea Org from 1973. I worked directly for L Ron Hubbard and for many years before Miscavige even JOINED the Sea Org. I was there and observed Miscavige’s descent into madness. He justified it with LRH references — but I know what it was like BEFORE then. Sure, there are abuses and outnesses in every organization. The organizations are composed of beings on planet earth. They are aberrated to one degree or another. It wasn’t until the mid 90’s that the institutional “thinking” became so warped and in direct contradiction to fundamental principles of Scientology.
So, what is your purpose here?
OTDT,
What does that mean anyway?
‘Dupe’ is used as it is in the Truth Rundown. A person wittingly or unwittingly forwarding a false line to deflect from facts. Joe hasn’t given a factual account of some additional ‘Why’ (Data Series, Multiple Sit Eval) but simply put forth the ‘line’ that David Miscavige himself originated.
I appreciate a Flow Three ARCX. I also appreciate a ‘string to pull’, as in Joe’s comment. I got ALL of that appreciation from LRH’s Scientology.
Gloutan Thetan,
Great reference.
Joe & Marty,
Confirmed, WHQ was a GO run base until the FBI raids. The GO was kicked out at that point. I arrived after the GO era. However, all arrivals had to do the Base basics & security course which were not revised.
Those added TRs are not red on white issues, but used no answer/Q & A which anyone who has done TRs would be aware of. Kind of a reverse/TRs which non Scios would be unaware of. This was not on any SO basic training courses. RVY was in the GO and so probably had to do them.
My response is you are right on the money.
Were you upset I allegedly bounced Wayne from this blog?
Joe,
EST also had connections to the Intelligence Community as well the Military especially to INSCOM’s Major General Stubblebine (the guy who’s characterized in the movie ‘The Men Who Stare at Goats’ as trying to walk through the wall) who used it as part of the US Army’s program to create Psychic warriors.
He also had cozy connections with the CIA as well as their many contractors and cover organizations who used EST as part of their personnel “advancement” programs.
The group supposedly “disbanded” in the late ’80’s (actually this is untrue they just changed their handle to “the Forum” or the “Landmark Forum” and continued operations) and I was one of the first auditors trained on the EST RL.
Thus I know a little bit about the program.
Now here’s the kicker:
Many of the techniques used by Miscavige from the reports I’ve read are very similar to those originally used by Rosenberg AKA Erhard as part of his Seminar Training:
Invalidation, evaluation, group O/W “seances” the SRA (Severe Reality Adjustment which is actually similar of “getting it”) are all in my opinion based on techniques “developed” (squirreled) by Erhard.
Anyway this should be food for thought to anyone who thinks that they are going to receive “Standard Tech” these days in any of the organizations under Miscavige’s control.
Also has anyone other than myself noticed the proliferation of various “seminars” on postulates, dissemination, money, ethics etc, etc?
Seems like they’re having some kind of “seminar” every damn week.
In fact I’d say that more “Scientologists” are probably “trained” by seminars than in actual course rooms.
Just my two bits.
Mike, thanks for cleaning it up. Another accurate demo on Miscavige’s MO. If you got a few minutes I don’t mind you culling the IP addresses and putting them up in a comment. Maybe someone’s has the time or inclination to start a data base to cross reference this garbage and something will turn up some day.
OTDT,
Disregard JP’s other statements and re-read his first and third paragraphs. It sure looks, smells, and quacks like one. The “boredom” tone level speaks loudly too. How much more Dev T and HE&R are we going to put up with as a consequence of JP’s post/troll?
Joe,
When I read DM’s comments, at first I thought, “This doesn’t make sense. It’s so silly, how is it relevant?” I was kind of disappointed because I like thinks that are comprehensible.
But, I guess that is the point: it makes little sense, but is passed off as sensible. It has almost no importance but is passed off as very important.
I can only imagine living in a world where logic is absolutely turned upside down, going through every day with little sleep, falling exhausted into bed (when a bed was available) trying to make sense of the irrational.
Holy Shit!
Dear Lawrence,
Thank you. I would like to locate Nan McClean to get the full story.
I knew her well from the FSO when she was public.
Did I read that right ? You were beat up by 2 staff members ? OSA ?
??????
Marty,
Here are some IP addresses that show up with repeated spam. I looked up some of them. But perhaps some here with more net expertise can discern further information as a result.
38.108.124.240 PSINet Washington DC
38.108.124.183
67.159.44.91 FDC Servers.net Wood Dale Illinois
72.47.228.20
72.47.228.23
72.47.228.27
72.47.228.29 Media Temple Culver City CA
74.50.108.14 NOC4Hosts Tampa FL
74.208.180.18 1&1 Internet Wayne PA
74.117.59.11
76.73.89.226
85.17.137.63
85.17.137.76
93.190.143.156 WorldStream, Holland
95.154.242.170
173.236.27.154 SingleHop Chicago IL
173.224.217.162 Psychz Networks Walnut CA
204.45.29.18 FDCservers.net Woodstock IL
204.45.71.226 FDCservers.net LA CA
204.124.182.189 VolumeDrive Clarks Summit PA
Sitting in traffic last night I got to thinking and I think I may have just discovered the SECOND reason Miscavige keeps the kool aid drinkers off the internet comm lines, unless they are on a computer with filters…
Searching ONE homo erotic website with the key words “Garage” and “Motorcycle” brings up a whole genre of videos showing sweaty homosexual boys in LEATHER doing EVERYTHING in hot sweaty garages…
It seems to be a VERY popular genre according to the ratings and viewer counts that are displayed with each video.
Very insightful indeed…
Marty, Damn. Everytime I click on this post I am confronted by THAT picture of those arrogant bastards. It sickens me. These two haven’t a clue what Theta is. Or what Scientology is. Its all about power and money to them. The biggest Thetan has the most power and money. Its very childish.
I would like to be a little compassionate but its hard. Sometimes I wonder if they have friends. Real friends. And Love. Who really Loves these two? Who can they trust? I mean really trust. Each other? Don’t turn your back!
Karen#1 – Nan Maclean died a few years back. When I was at CLO Canada in 1991 my parents took me to get deprogrammed or to at least get me to listen to someone else. they took me to Nan outside of Toronto. I recently googled her name and she passed away. I was not deprogrammed, I just sat listening to her for an house and then we left. She was not a friend or anything but it would be interesting decades later to talk to her. I was only 19 or so. You can deduce how old I am. LOL But I still feel 20.
It was a great movie.
The Church of Scientology can get results good or bad, it just seems like there is really noone there to control the matters or admit responsiblity for them.
You read that right. But it was not worth the time and trouble to prosecute them because the attack happened in New York City and my home is in New Jersey, so one more O/W for them to chalk up to experience.
mrinder,
Creating his own GPM. More precisely, I would guess he’s dramatizing the top oppterm of the current GPM he’s creating. That is, assuming his original goal in the thing was something positive.
OTDT –
After reading your responses to this blog post I was sure I had you confused with someone else and actually went back to your earlier posts to compare. Only few days ago you stated you´d just found caliwog´s blog and found it so hateful; just the other day you were confused why piling on Aaron Saxton and as if you had no idea what this man is about. Your several prior posts, to me, had come across as if you don´t know, “help me, I´m confused” -type. And look at you today! I find two faces and no name. Just sayin´.
Jim, it’s understood that Int staff had to m-9 these things from DM. How many WCCLs resulted from these m-9’s? This is right out of Study Tape #1 Study: An Introduction. This is a subject that cannot be understood.
No wonder Tommy is so batty. He gets a dispatch like this and says, very silently to himself: “WTF?” Then he is sent to M-9 it. He doesn’t understand it at all, he’s cleared every word on it and it still doesn’t make a lick of sense. So, in order to come out of this a little sane he manufactures his own synthesis of what this dispatch says and decides he now understands it.
But he will always have a w/h from DM that it didn’t make sense.
OMG the poor people who had to understand this. I am starting a DM rundown, it will be much like the EST rundown. (I am joking, of course, but someone will someday have to put together a DM rundown. Wait, maybe its called the introspection r/d.
ML Tom
ML Tom
to sinar, that 30 mil could have been put towards real dissemination instead of building mest. but then what else can you expect from a crim like dm. he ripped off the public scientologist and pocketed the money for his own personal gain. please see simon bl pl, financial irregs.
that money could have been put to real use, not just dissemination but other programs like grants to narconon, able, criminon, cchr etc. it’s too bad, that 1 guy fucked up the game for everybody else because of his arrogance and ego. and his 2d, stood there and took part.
A person can tolerate it, be reasonable about, go into agreement with it, challenge it, attack it, there are many routes a person can take that finds themselves stuck in DM’s regime.
If something is just not for me, like Scientology at the moment, then the wisest thing to do is just go, quietly, without causing a scene.
If the church really needed and wanted someone of my abilities and knowledge at there side, you would not now be reading this response to yours of mine.
Joe wrote: “they did not teach you to lie but to deflect the questioner’s attention off the subject”
That sounds like that watered down “Success Through Comm Course” that came out in the mid-80s … where instead of “Alice in Wonderland”, you had to use newspapers or magazines … and then learn how to “change the subject”. That was weird. I *loved* the old Comm Course (and real TRs) from the 70s.
Marty,
My money is on some of the haters you may have recently banned from your blog. You know what happens when you cut the reach of those intent on destroying no matter what, they go nuts.
Anon: “I think the Southpark episode about Scientology, did hurt its image more than TC’s couch jumping and other shenanigans”
Scientology could have survived South Park imho, if it ended there. And if there was sane leadership in the CoS. The much harder thing to survive was Tom Cruise’s leaked “I’m a crazy Scientologist” video a year or so later … which we now know was apparently directed and edited by DM himself. The couch jumping, the Brooke Shields, the Matt Lauer, the South Park … those were definitely PR hand grenades. But the leaked “how Tom Cruise really feels” video address to Scientologists … followed by DM’s trying to suppress it … that was some serious TNT foot-bulleting in the PR world.
Of course, when it became clear that the crazy was coming all the way from the top, with Marty and Mike’s exposing DM’s insanities (supported by Amy, Matt, Tom, Jeff, Karen, Steve, John, Janela, Karen, Dan, Jackson, Mark and many others …) well, now we’re talking the PR equivalent of laser-guided nuclear torpedos.
@Mike Rinder: are these IP addresses from X-Posting-Host or X-Posting-IP headers of the spam emails ? The reason I ask is that IP addresses of SMTP Mail Transfer Agents do not identify the email sender, only the server they used start the process of routing the email to the destination From: address.
I suppose you are not Sarge. Because he has more ARC than you have expressed !
Here’s a list of people, using their real names, that have spoken out with eye-witness statements of having received or witnessed Miscavige’s physical abuse:
1. Tom De Vocht
2. Mark Fisher
3. Steve Hall
4. Jeff Hawkins
5. Bruce Hines
6. Eric Knutson
7. Dan Koon
8. Gary “Jackson” Morehead
9. John Peeler
10. Karen Pressley
11. Marty Rathbun
12. Mike Rinder
13. Amy Scobee
14. Janela Webster
Did I miss anyone?
Source: http://scientologymyths.com/
MH: No idea. You are out of my league 🙂 How would I tell?
Just to put all this in perspective: when I first visited Marty’s blog, I hated Scientology and despised LRH. Huge ARC break with the founder and the subject. But I was still curious. And I was pleasantly surprised by the open discussion about what was right and what was wrong. Commenters were allowed to have an opinion that differed from acceptable dogma.
And over the course of a few weeks, I regained an interest in LRH and Scientology. I came to see the brilliance of the work. And I came to the point where any flaws were put in perspective. I even switched to being a KSW non-Scientologist. Go figure. And I’m still working out the kinks.
For those getting out of the church and working through the rage, the upsets, the betrayal, the case, there will be a lot of questions. Questions are not distractions. Questions are the road to answers. You cannot have an answer without the question.
Wondering about earlier similar is going to be on the minds of a lot of individuals leaving the church. How did this all come about?
To pile on someone for having a question defeats open and honest communication. Individuals will learn to keep their questions to themselves. And answers will be denied.
Maybe a question is ill formed. Maybe it is stupid or distracting or annoying. But it is a question the person has formed to express his need to know.
There is a time and place for every question. You don’t ask about Grandma’s first sexual encounter during the Thanksgiving dinner, no matter how curious you are. But, if someone were insensitive enough to broach the question the rest of the family would be just as wrong to stand up and start screaming at the person. Hell, maybe Grandma would be tickled by the question and give everyone some fascinating stories.
Scientology, as I understand it, is all about learning how to know. No matter what your case level, there are unknowns that you want answered or need to have answered if all curiosity has been beaten out of your.
The flaw in DM is that he can’t be questioned. You can’t doubt him. If that is so reprehensible in DM, would it not be reprehensible in others? Including ourselves?
Should our response to someone’s confusion be to beat the shit out of them, to jump on them, to attempt to crush them? Or should we be trying to raise the ARC level?
In auditing you ignore comments that have nothing to do with the session. If this is auditing the third dynamic, why all this concern over a comment? Why all the distraction in an attempt to “stay on purpose and avoid distraction.” Seems like the thing to do is stay on course, ignore the comment if you don’t think it’s relevant, and move on.
I like Joe, and I’m not about to stand by and let you beat the shit out of him just because you disagree. I like Mike Rinder and Marty and that madman Jim Logan. I like most people here. A lot.
I also love a good fight. Fuck civility. Who cares. Let the trolls troll. Let OSA spew their nonsense. It’s an exercise in differentiation and judgement. Grant us the beingness to make our own observations.
We can bloody each other’s noses and still remain friends. We can disagree and curse each other and still remain friends. Minds change.
Friendship and the Code of Honor mean something.
Entheta is based in theta. Making entheta wrong only adds to the entheta. Better to apply the logics and axioms and tech to convert entheta back to theta. That’s what happened for me here. That was the successful action. Why suddenly change a successful action?
We talk about this being Marty’s blog. But if that were true only Marty would be creating it and contributing to it. The success of this thing stems from a lot of creation from a lot of beings. Marty, as big a being as he might be, would be inadequate. We are co-creating this thing. Each of us. Its success depends on how WE create it. And to the degree that each of us does not accept responsibility and ownership for this blog, it will go awry. I don’t think that Marty has some vision of MARTY as the end result of all this effort. And I don’t think he’s so short-sighted as to believe that getting rid of DM is the end game in this chess match.
We should have a higher purpose than just getting rid of DM. Tearing down a condemned building should lead to more than a pile of unsightly rubble.
Let’s tear it down, but let’s build something magnificent in its place. Let’s build a place where theta can flourish, where entheta can be converted to theta.
Michael
I’m sure that picture was taken during a riding break. Tom and David did ride for days to go down to Louisiana to deliver assits to the homeless… 24/7… they look so tired and stressed…
…
That’s because he’s Marcabian……
Michael. Agreed. I express my views and dont expect everyone to agree with them. Because I say so, doesnt suddenly mean it is the end of discussion or that nobody else can express their view. I try to explain my reasoning. Nobody s required to agree wth me.
Instead of attaining results with LRH’s tech that show the public the church is worth supporting, the church is overrun with people that put their own ideas ahead in the game and then try to use the tech “any old way” to make their dreams come true because there will always be some public person that believes he or she is getting the real thing.
Centurion:
Right now the article where this is stated is not at hand BUT it DOES exist, just so you know. Did you know that DM is the one who said “True friendliness is hard to fake”? Apparently this is to be taken to me that only HE would know true friendliness if he ever saw it? Well, it would seem to me like he missed a couple of opportunities to give credit where credit was due.
Look at it from the public’s point of view [re: Tom Cruise].
“He’s not just a movie star he is Co-Head of the church with DM”.
In my opinion DM gets along with Tom Cruise the way that he does because Tom fills the financial holes in DM’s pockets personally that parishioner’s would never agree to.
Mark Headly
THE ARROGANCE OF MISCAVIGE.
It’s less than 3 minutes, please watch
I give it ten years max. Dave has a few cards up his sleeve just yet to keep the flock faithful – new e-meters, super power, materials in mp3 form, maybe some cobbled together OT 9 and 10. But after all that and still no boom, the dam will crumble.
I see Mycabbage headed for South America like a nazi war criminal. Probably still with a few hangers on
Put on your auditor hat…”Tone Arm is moving, do Nothing.”
It’s a process.
You know who was really the star of the movie in my opinion, was Shaun Austin-Olsen the one who played “His Planetship”. He was the Uncle Fester [Adams Family TV series] type of person.
People like that, always get my attention ESPECIALLY if they have chins that are 2 feet long.
This is to JR:
JR, haven’t you heard as well that auditors at Flag today are afraid to audit.
Why do you suppose? Good place to start would be by being PRE-TRAINED by DM’s technical army in how to read an E-Meter WRONG!
Sure it’s totally fine to run the group engram as such and I recommend it.
However looking for the policy or tech that was supposedly responsible for the arbitraries brought in by others is in my opinion a waste of time.
I can tell you that it was failure to apply standard policies or even directives relating to the GO that was the reason for the intel failure known as “Operation Snow White” by the critics which was actually a project to acquire intel “by any legal means” and was the reason for Scientology’s support of an expansion of the FOIA.
What to the GO did instead was jump out of the frying pan into the fire by deciding to implement 1361 (which was probably a set-up) when their lawsuit was denied under the state secrecy clause for “reasons of national security”.
Also if they had ignored Cooper instead of giving her the notoriety she craved by running an illegal off the books operation which violated the policies relating to ‘Attacks on Scientology’ the FBI wouldn’t of found the embarrassment known as ‘Operation Freak Out’ that the Ol’man and even Mary Sue found out about after the fact.
The point that many of these critics miss is that the orgs unlike today didn’t have a vertical flow of micromanagement but ran by a policy known as Fast Flow Management on a horizontal system which meant very little inspection before the fact of many programs and projects by more senior execs.
I know for a fact that MSH didn’t find out about the comedy team of Meisner and Wolfe until the cat was out of the bag and that the main “crime” she committed was in “walking back the cat”.
Something Miscavige through his ventriloquist sock puppet Tommy does on almost a daily basis when one of his sordid OSA ops is blown sky.
Like he’s trying to do now and continues to do.
Yet he has the audacity to call the GO and Mary Sue “criminals”.
At least the GO wrong headedly were operating on what they considered was in the best interest of the organization while Miscavige’s dirty little game only serve his and a few others personal interests.
How hypocritical is that?
The overt doth speak loudly.
What’s the problem with a picture of two midgets on big boy bikes???
@Mike Rinder: here is a web page explaining how to read the headers of email. And here is another page about it.
Your e-mail client should have an option to show you the full headers of any given email.
Michael A. Hobson
Christie:
So you really like Carly Simon huh? You have VERY good taste in music.
Did you know that when I was on staff in New York, Carly Simon did services at CCNY? Nothing to big, but she was on lines for several weeks.
I left the org one afternoon to go to the store and guess who I see walking down the street next to me with her kid in the stroller? Carly Simon. So, I had about 5 of her records already so I said hi, and spoke to her, she told me a little about what she was doing in Scientology and that she was on her way to the Pioneer market on Amsterdam Avenue to pick up some stuff. I think she knew I was more pleased to meet one of my favorite singers than I was to talk about CC NY with her.
Yup. LRH wrote the STCC drills in March 1980. They came into RTRC one morning typed on onion skin paper with LRH’s characteristic xxxx outs on corrections. Fred Albach, another compiler, and I immediately were sent off to do them. They are great for what they are but don’t blow people out of their heads like OT TR-O and a 2 hr. confront.
I actually did these drills WITH RVY. They are really pretty innocuous. The purpose was to be able to manage tone level, deflect entheta questions, get your own message out there (“spin” as in current media lingo). There was no drill to lie, and it was acknowledged in the context of this training that outright lying comes back and bites you in the behind.
RVY was (rightfully) very angry at the end from what I read in his affidavits and on the net. I am deeply sorry and shocked for what happened to him and to Stacy. Both were once loyal and dedicated. However, if Vaughan made it seem that the reporter TRs taught him to lie, that was his extrapolation possibly colored by what he saw in later years.
Anyone who trains in communications and media and/or who represents an organization would do similar “mock” interviewing drills and learn to put all in positive light for one’s group. That’s not unique for Scientology! They do it in trial prep, too.
The “model” for handling reporters and employing “reporter TRs” naturally if you wish, is the LRH interview by Tony Dunleavy – probably pre-1965 vintage.
Leonore
You can make your IP addy appear as anything you want. You can connect to this blog from anywhere in the world. Ever hear of TOR?
Marty:
I don’t know exactly what happened but I used to get TONS of SPAM and I mean TONS of it. Everything from insurance coverage for the elderly to low cost dental plans to mortgage re-financing.
Suddenly most of the SPAM stopped, just like that. Almost as if someone had finally identified the source over at my ISP’s portal and then blocked the domain or domains where the SPAM originates.
I think that this is what may happen with you. The ISP through whose portals you are controlling this BLOG must BLOCK the SPAM so it doesn’t get to you. But that can be tough, because sometimes certain things can get blocked that are OK.
I wish I could help.
GT, I’m sorry if I’m not me. I think…ouch! No, its me. I need to apologize. Not for the lack of ARC but for causing you to believe I’m someone I’m not. I do get ‘sudden’ sometimes and the above photo does that to me.
Sinar,
I am pained to hear that Bonnie View was destroyed. It was a place full of a theta vibe hard to do justice with words. Only a low-toned solid individual would have seen any need for another abode to replace it.
😦
Jim, it is not Q & A to go earlier to find the cause/postulate that resulted in an unwanted condition (and I’m not sure where you got that idea).
All I did was to ask for us to look earlier for the causes that have resulted in the current group ethic/culture/agreements that are now part of the operating basis of of the C of S; to look for those points where individuals and the group itself made the postulate “yes, it is bad to question; yes, I must follow orders and accept what those senior to me say about EVERYTHING ; yes, it it the right thing to do to use force to ‘adjust people’s reality even though our founder based a whole philosophy/religion on postulates and theta being senior to mest/force.
What was the earlier source/postulates of the current abberated agreements?
I know that’s not the point or the game being played on this blog, so I am not going to push these question with much persistance here. I usually mention this once a month.
I’ll just add that it seems to me that most members of any group still crave agreement from their fellow group members (“you’re right – you’re one of US “). The C of S nullifies any critical or questioning comm by one of their group by labelling that person “disaffected” or “he’s a follower of the SP Marty or Mike.” This “dead agent’s” the person and their comm and allows the group members to completely ignore that comm, no matter how valid it may be. So it is by easily saying to someone on this blog “you’re a bot, or a troll or work for OSA.”
I did not actually know what “caliwog” meant – but following Mike’s suggestion, I did google it and am now more informed (I guess). You know, boredom is not that low on the Tone Scale (I just hate staying there and do endevour to move off of it – to a higher tone of course).
Thanks sylvia for your mock up so right and your blog !
Thanks Sinar!
You are correct about some things. One guy over here in New Jersey that is OT VIII spent 16 years on Solo NOT’s {32 6 months checks} and re-did the OT level twice. Because for some reason it wasn’t right the first time.
As far as people like that being unaware of these BLOG’s, that may or may not be true. My understanding is that in order for a Scientologist to have a web page at Scientology.org that tells the public a little bit about them, it is impossible to access the tools with which to create the page unless one has the Scientology internet censorship software installed on one’s computer that one creates the web page from. This is not to say that one cannot have another computer, a laptop perhaps that one can view anything on the web with. But here is an example of the way many Scientologists put their foot in their mouth every day.
I am not a HUGE critic of the church let’s say to the degree that Marty and Mike are who have been followed by PI’s and assaulted in parking lots. But I have had my say and not to the church, to the authorities because I do not believe that one should report crimes committed on one by Scientologists to the church if one is not a member of that church.
So, this OT VIII I mention above, I took him to court for trespassing at my house and harassing me and anyone else that lives here. He came, but he brought someone from OSA with him, to tape record the whole thing no doubt to playback to Linda Hamil or some such person. He, the OT VIII, who I know for a fact, has a Scientology page at the Scientology.org web site told the magistrate like this:
“Lawrence has put a tremendous amount of information about me on the internet regarding my church and myself that I have seen thus far and the church sent me to resolve this with him.”
Oh, wait a minute, that he has seen thus far? But I thought Scientologists weren’t allowed or didn’t read that kind of stuff? This must be one of those exceptions to the rule.
Thank you. DM liked it very much as well.
It’s rated 2.3 (out of 10) by 38, 587 voters. Estimated budget was 44M and Grossed 21M +
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185183/
When is the insanity going to end with the church of scientology? This is where it ends, right now and within yourself…
Get out there, live life to the fullest, breath, fish, run, kayak, play sports, have dinner with your family or friends. Eat, drink and be Merry! This is the true happiness that anyone can find within themselves.
The worst evil….judging
Silvia:
I was parked on your BLOG last night just fascinated by your essays on various things and your whole viewpoint on this whole subject of people that are no longer in the church. I was really glad I went there. It is highly educational and inspiring to know that just about anything the church wrecks on a person’s Bridge can be fixed without even having to re-involve the church.
Yes, Dave and Tom do look very stressed, because they are. Here is what LRH says in the “Joy Of Creating”:
++++++++++
Force yourself to smile and you’ll soon stop frowning.
Force yourself to laugh and you’ll soon find something to laugh about.
Wax enthusiastic and you’ll very soon feel so.
A being causes his own feelings.
The greatest joy there is in life is creating.
Splurge on it.
++++++++++
GT- Sarge has the right to his emotions just like anyone else.
Pingback: Top Posts — WordPress.com
Mike seems to be referring to blog spam, not mail spam.
I’m not defending Tom or Dave but I’m a little offended by that remark:
What’s of a higher importance, a person’s spirit or their body?
Is the size of a Thetan measured by the height of his or her body?
Some of us like bikes and feel insulted that the Ducati has been desecrated?
Mike:
Many people either don’t know, or pretend not to know WHO you were in the church for all those decades. Not just weeks or months or a few years like me, DECADES, and yours were spent in the Sea Org.
I have never found myself to ever disagree with anything you have ever had to say. The only time I ever felt that way was when you were still in the church and had to go on TV and explain away accusations against the church. I knew you were being forced to not tell the truth so the public would not get the clear picture of what was going on in Scientology.
However, I do not believe that you do this here on this BLOG or since you came out of the church. It was a smooth transition in my opinion.
Almost like they way I felt when I discovered that my most beloved Class XII auditor had left the church after being forced to do manual labor in 100 degree temperatures in the same clothes for 10 days?
There is no need to explain yourself. Some of us I think understand.
Great response Mike!!
Disappointing comment Joe.
Having done both Scientology and est, there is no doubt that est had Scientology elements in it. Werner was a Grade IV Release. However, est also had advanced non-Scientology elements drawn from Zen and other practices. The large scale delivery format and low price made est an attractive mass movement in the 1970’s and 1980’s. LRH explicitly and personally ordered Werner Erhard to be investigated and ruined if possible. IMO, this was a mistake. Had LRH purchased est, he would have had access to 500,000 est graduates looking for more altitude and the next thing. Werner once called LRH one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century. I don’t know that Werner still holds that opinion after having been hammered by OSA. There was a sharp Light/Dark dichotomy with LRH: Cross him and he would crush you. LRH was savage in that way. That is why he needed GO and OSA. He had a big game that was full of secrets and money to launder. The Commodore did not take any sh*t from anyone on his watch. Nevertheless, I think the Old Man did a bad job in choosing his inner circle because they all betrayed him.
*****
One of the connected stories for another time is the Operation Star Gate with OT’s Ingo Swann and Hal Puthoff conducting a remote viewing experiments for the CIA.
Werner was not the only one in the Puzzle Palace! IMO, LRH got a free pass on Snow White due to the OT’s in Star Gate. The Government needed to shut down the GO’s criminality while letting LRH walk. Again, IMO, this was a last and final warning to LRH to settle down. After Snow White, he moved off his point of power and picked some deputies who became serious SP’s. One is particular is still a problem and his initials are David Miscavige.
/////
Thanks Tom.
15. Marc Headley
CD,
You have a way with words and viewpoint that is enjoyable.
I have observed a similar operating basis with a few posters.
1. Create ARC with agreed upon out-points
2. Try to shift subject away from dm.
or
3. Create HE&R so as to distract attention away from subject.
4. Get called out for it
5. go back to #1 and pretend it never happened so as to re-establish confidence.
LOL! Maybe he can be a hairdresser in prison.
Good points, Joy.
I often wonder if just walking away from everything Scn-related wouldn’t completely de-PTS us all.
But, then…..there are vast injustices to handle. Good people to save. And a jack-ass midget to take down, first.
Marty, I can confirm that. I put the ‘security packs’ together at WHQ for new staff. I worked with the GO on it. I also did ‘reporter TRs’ when I trained as a security guard at Dunedin, Fla in 1976. I was drilled on reporter TRs by a GO terminal.
I wonder how many people are familiar with that story by LRH. The story he tells of when he was young and a group of local bullies used to terrorize him on his way home from school until finally one day he waited for them instead and one at a time jumped off a fence on them one by one when they walked past alone and literally pulverized them. They never bullied LRH again.
I’m not so sure she is dead. There is a video of her and Gerry Armstrong on You Tube that came out 2 weeks ago but that looks recent but perhaps it is an old one. It does mention Anonymous so it is at least from 2008.
WN
Thank you for that.
My error. This is not the Nan that I knew at FSO. The Nan I knew had twins and was much younger but her name was somewhat similar including last name hence my confusion. Did not know the Nan that passed.
But it is always useful to read up on past members that have spoken out…..
Thanks !
Sargio,
Loved you’re come back on GT !
High 5 brudder 🙂
The information that Karen has provided the public thus far about her departure from the Church of Scientology is very well received by most.
Karen’s departure from the church came as a shock to the system to me. Literally.
Picture a person feeling like they are in session with one of the best auditors in all of Mankind in forever making 100% standard gains at all times always. Suddenly, right in the middle of one of these sessions that auditor is ejected from the chair and declared an SP.
Well where does this supposed to leave the PC at? To apologize and say “Sorry but we didn’t like her!” How can that be? It cannot be per LRH. So something is wrong in the church.
Michael. Your right. Almost incoherent.
Tony:
Yes. It is because in my Scientology “career” or “involvement” for lack of a better term, it has not been my good fortune let’s say to actually MEET DM in person and become familiar to him, as many, many people with accounts about their times in Scientology have to say here on Marty’s BLOG.
So, for a person like myself, to need to be able to draw a conclusion about this man {DM [and TC]} without even getting so much as the opportunity under that regime to be audited or trained there at least to attest to something of what the current church is attaining is like madness.
There is no need to go to the church anymore or meet DM, all the information one needs is on the internet.
LRH never would have allowed this to happen and would have declared anyone that suggested other people’s 3rd party be used as a reference in place of solid church results.
Most people will say:
“Lawrence, good for you, you lucked out that you never met DM, you wouldn’t wanna'”.
But yet, I would have. Regardless of the outcome I would have, than to have to hear that since he gained control of the church there is little if anything he does correct.
WSF,
Likewise, had fond memories and did a lot of work at the original place. Baked fresh ground wholewheat bread and goodies there, sending it through the comm lines when possible, which LRH appreciated very much.
Ted Horner built a Japanese garden with waterfalls and koi with a tea house in the back. This was pretty original as he had gotten Toshi who had a Sushi place in Hemet to work and advise him. It was a very serene and theta place.
There was extensive laundry facilities with a natural air drying area, pool and exercise building facilities built as a surprise for when LRH was to return, which never happened as DM’s project All Clear for LRH is a completely failed mission.
My guess is that the original BV did not measure up to the Italian marble and sandstone VE Mestology standards having to keep up with his BFF TC style of living of the Jet set with 20 ft ceilings and thus had to be razed down. Then again perhaps it created some kind of a hidden data line to LRH thus generating power of sorts to Dear Leader, using his slush fund to create monuments, not unlike Saddam’s palaces.
Thanks Karen. I watched this video. I get the picture.
I did a study of the Holocaust years ago, it took 6 months and I got to read almost every book ever written on the subject by the victims and the panels that judged the Nazi criminals that were caught. Some of them escaped, were never caught and will never be caught although they were once a part of this so called “Premiere Nordic Society”.
It is very hard today to find much actual footage of Adolf Hitler’s acclaimed speeches {and he gave hundreds of them} because this type of media of a high profile figure such as Adolf Hitler is all but no longer available anywhere in the world, people just want to forget about that period in Mankind’s history.
But this is an amusing view of Sea Org life today reminiscent of an old forgotten culture.
J Swift, sometimes you wax expert in areas you just are not. I have handled former Erhardt products and what his “tech” does is gruesome. Also this inclusion of “he had a big game that was full of secrets and money to launder” is salacious, tabloid crap. Please get a grip.
Splog. You are right. The only thing you can see here is an email address followed by an IP address.
Lawrence,
Thanks for the clarification. I pretty much understood all of that. I think the important thing is to keep learning and progressing in life. If you are still intersted in Scientology there are all the materials and people to help you. If you already know this, then great! Do well!!
Michael. I think we have to look at agenda’s and focus.
Mick and Marty want to salvage the subject. As do many others. They want to stay focused. I support them in that. I never bash them personally for not casting a wider net.
I fully expect the current managment to implode or explode or somehow need a replacement team. Whether they want the job or not, I do hope Mike and Marty get involved.
To that end, I often point out that the abuses have been around a long time. My reason is simple. Its the hope that those who succeed the current managment make sweeping, systemic changes. I agree that the abuses have been worse under DM.
My intention is not to trash the subject or LRH. I just want change to embrace any and all abusive practices. No sacred cows. I support a broader view of abuses so the solutions are broad as well. I would be satisfied knowing that ultimately the evals that are done do not shield any why’s or who’s.I probably wont get all I want on that account. We all see things through a different lens. But i think the experiences and exchanges we all have shared here will bring us a long way to a just end.
Some post here to distract from that moderator focus and are trolls. I hope I never inadverdently support them and i do not need their support. Their agenda is different than mine.
I favor strong moderator culling of many posts. I dont want to see a good fight, as you might. I want to stay focused on the abuses. But I understand that if the blog turned into a place where everyone always agreed, it would likely loose a lot of interest and input. So a certain amount of dissension or uncomfortable originations may be good.
I suppose its a game. “spot the troll”. We need a troll patrol. Just like there was a rat patrol in the Fort Harrison. Volunteers?
I agree people should get their own questions answered. It is not necessarily the purpose of this blog to answer ANY question a person has. There are plenty of other sites to get these types of questions ( about LRH and his flaws etc.) answered. I think that Marty and Mike have the overall intention of getting rid of the madman and things that distract from that purpose are not what they are looking for overall.
The other point is that it is their site and they can do with it what they want. If they do right ro wrong will ultimately be decided by the stat.
Hey Joe,
I have liked a lot of the things that you have said on this blog. I think you are a smart guy. IMHO LRH had his flaws. And yes the organization had flaws,otherwise how could this idiot get onto post?? But I think it is not needed and wanted by the people running this blog to Q&A from the purpose of handling the PT danger of having an SP destroying things. Also the tone of your original post where you said “Am I the only person completely bored by the continual whining, moaning and bitching about “DM” all the time?” comes across as critical and out of ARC and not your usual flow. Anyways, I am not ready to condemn you as an OSA bot :-). Buit when this kind of distraction comes up it does draw attention to that person posting.
Have a nice weekend.
Tony
OTDT,
I admire you for sticking up for Joe.
Hey Dan!!
You are right . When I read that statement it made me feel strange. Like I kinda got what he was saying but it didn’t totally make sense. I can see if he had this op basis how it would be a good way to keep people off balance and question their own duplication skills. Another low toned method of handling others.
Lawrence,
The following is my opinion posted here in reply:
Replacing DM may be more complex than it seems as I have done a lot of research in this very area.
To start with he is the appointed chairman of the RTC by CST the top predator of the food chain or should I say “Cult Chain”.
The fact that he is the top ranking member of the Sea Org appears to be a non issue as the it ended up being legally considered nothing more than an unincorporated religious fellowship without any real authority in the Tax Exemption Agreement with the IRS per what reports on it I read.
Maybe this is why he feels he can get away with the physical abuses to start with.
I have already spoken to several people and consensus among them seems to be that CST is now being put more in the spotlight than ever since they do have the power to remove but yet do not.
For the CST this has to be or will be an issue very soon as to why they condone Miscavidge’s behavior .
This for them will entail some tough questions needing answers.
The ultimate authority over all is CST so some of us are now putting aside the magnifying glass and going for the microscope and I can say it is fascinating to see what really happened in the “War Is Over” PR that reads more like “It’s done we are now in receivership”.
Stay tuned to the big channel for more on this matter.
Lawrence, the guy being DM
Sarge!! I see you !! 🙂
Good observation Tony. “OTVIII” immediately came to mind.
Reality:
Go back and look at this picture again; remind yourself that this is a picture of two grown men sitting provocatively on two motorcycles and both are turned on.
It’s true!
Larry Brennan
Don Larsen
Jesse Prince
…there’s more.
It would be really worthwhile to compile a list of eyewitness reports.
If this is an internal dispatch it only goes to show how unbelievably crude, disgusting and viscious 3p is most likely routine from him.
Joe,
It IS a Q&A. DM’s perversion of ethics, tech, admin procedure is the giant, blatant, egregious thing at hand. It is documented. Plenty of material to confirm observations.
If you’ve got some specific point of departure that is an earlier issue that led to what he’s done and what this thing at Int first, and now spread through, metastatasized through, then put it on the table.
My patience wears thin when you, an obviously intelligent being, goes off into these vague nebulous generalities and with such disperse attention from where it patently belongs – the wanton squirrelling of the subject of Scientology by David Miscavige.
I’ve no mistaken idea that all was Ideal prior or that it ever will be. However that’s not the point for me. A Workable scene, a valid scene DID exist at various points under the exact same LRH issues and direction. That does not exist today. What changed? NOT actual LRH material.
So, in my opinion, from being on the scene in both scenarios, your ‘earlier’ is a dead end. Do you have specific data to relate that would show this to be a ‘live string’ or is this just some forwarded line, or chatty bullshit or what.
Ummm….by continuing to look to the past for “reasons why” things are the wat they are, you are continuing to grant “cause” to something other than self, and thereby peg your cause level and ability. The single biggest outpoint in present time vis a vis the Scientology Organization is the fact that the “person in charge” has no clue how to apply straight Scn, and in fact, using his own “invented tech” has set the organization back at least 30 years, abused staff, mis-used funds, and brought the entire subject in to such ill-repute that it is a laughing stock in the majority of civilized countries in the world. You can continue to ransack the past for “answers” to this, but to me, it is more responsible to deal with the present and work tp create the future in as positive a manner as possible. Your mileage may vary.
Well I am glad to hear that at least he and I have something in common. Perhaps, with this, he will arrive at a better understanding of things.
Without doubt, Tom Cruise must certainly appreciate DM’s taste in films? I am hoping this newfound understanding will benefit Tom Cruise as well.
One thing I have not heard about Battlefield Earth, was it being nominated for any Oscars. So I have my foot at least partially in the door.
Thank you for gathering these statistics on what I consider to be films worth seeing.
Not to drive this thread off track, but tonight I read a letter a public wrote to DM resigning from the church and clearly giving his reasons for doing so. I the letter were a listing of some of the “stats” cooked up by DM (or by Marc and Guillaume and Diana under threat of vaporization by His Lowness) that are too rich not to share far and wide. Check out this list of stats providing evidence of the tremendous expansion of Scientology around the universe:
“People helped”
“Hours on OT projects”
“Ideal Org Fundraising”
“Volunteer hours in building orgs”
“Population of cities with new groups”
“Number of citizens aware of Human Rights”
“Shopping Malls playing our Human Rights PSAs”
“Number of dirt particles removed during film restoration”
“Number of miles of distraction-free voyages”
“Number of terabytes of processing memory”
“Inches of press”
“Square feet of book cover cloth”
“Feet of lamination”
This list absolutely blows my mind.
@Lawrence: it’s from Ethics, Design of, IIRC. And according to Ron Hubbard, it was all the kids in his neighborhood getting terrorized.
Incredible that you thought of this.
I am laughing as I write this. *How dare* [sic] you ask this? {LOL}. Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what would happen? I feel obligated to respond.
First and foremost once that is accomplished an amnesty would have to be issued internationally. For obvious reasons. Is it possible that today’s top contenders would accept the amnesty and return? I would literally have a heart attack if they said no. Why not? There is no getting around that answer.
Would I? I would if it were so. I was originally looking forward to a career in the Sea Org as an actual Scientologist for a change! {LOL}
That is until as I was outed as someone who is actually capable of pulling another person’s withholds and coming out in one piece.
I am not making an early judgement. But I am willing to sit it out and wait.
“C’mon, Dan – you knew Ron near the end of his life and Miscavige at the start of his rise – help me out here.”
Joe P, you are right on both counts here. I knew and worked with LRH near the end of his days and worked with DM a lot more over my 26.5 years in the S.O, especially the latter half.
Everyone, even DM, recognizes that LRH is Source. DM even gives lip service to that fact. We were all bound by the same tech and policy. Even DM. The fact that 99% of all SO members have perpetrated nothing even remotely similar to DM’s steady diet of abuse of other staff surely must mean something to you, Joe. I myself never choked, spit on, beat, kicked, etc., another staff member in all my years in the S.O. and I saw very, very, very few instances of others doing it and when these occurred it was usually as a result of two people being unbelievably stressed out after too many nights of no sleep and under intense pressure to get something done.
So, we have 100 people operating under the same LRH policies. 1 guy engages in abuses. 99 do not. And you’re going to look at the flaws in the LRH policies that put the 1 guy up to it?
Makes Z-E-R-O sense to me any way you look at it.
Listen, there are organizations in the world that are hard ass. Did you ever play football and spend time around some football coaches? Or the military? Or a hedge fund? Some groups are more high pressure than others and have to adopt a “snap and pop” attitude about things. Any group going up against big odds sort of has to fall into that line of operation as a means of self preservation. And Dianetics and Scientology have always, it seems, fallen into that kind of scene. It doesn’t have to be that way and my experience as an independent Scientologist is that it is a lot looser of an operation, administration-wise, yet the gains are still there, maybe even greater because there is no constant roar of organizational restimulation. Truth be told, there’s not much organization at all, just enough to get tech applied.
As Mike states, nothing is going to happen to reform Scientology until DM is out of there. That is target #1. Target #2 is anybody’s guess.
But the fact that no one has yet come up with the lever to pry him off his position speaks to DM’s cunning, if not his abilities, and to the work that Larry Brennan, Marty and others did to set up the structure of the church to make it relatively impervious legally (as I understand it).
Hope this helps.
I have heard of TOR, but what else I have heard of that strikes me as odd is why so many people seem obsessed with anonymity when surfing the web. Why does one need to be so anonymous and hidden from others when doing things like reading a BLOG or checking weather?
I have sister like that. She is not a Scientologist. As a matter of fact she took a Dianetics book I bought her and her husband and threw it in the garbage.
But everything she does is anonymous. She sends E-Mails to people, friends, family under an assumed name. Her phone number is private. Her own name is about 26 first and last names long.
If people want to get their point across in reality then it helps to know WHO is really making the point and why, not to remain so anonymous about it.
If one person show up and says “Try a TOR client under UBUNTU using a Linux server or Red Hat” I will apply for auditing. What is wrong with just using Windows, going to a BLOG, saying “Hello!” and going back to bed? Why all the anonymity if nothing is wrong?
Yes. Since he dissapeared have you noticed some others stepping into his shoes?
Joe:
It is just like finding an MU correct? One goes back to the point where one last understood things well and locates the original point of misunderstanding.
Even with O/W’s! A guy and his girl are out having dinner and they get home and she throws a frying pan at him in anger. But if one went back to the very limited time track available from the time when they were having dinner someplace and then left to go home and locates what just preceded the frying pan episode……..so to speak.
It is a good way of looking at things.
How did DM get there? Most people would just like to shrug their shoulders and look straight ahead and say “Nobody knows!”
But that wouldn’t be the truth now would it?
Swift,
You are so full-o-shit that it’s leaking out your ears!
First of all Erhard charged more per individual for one of his seminars than it would cost for a group processing intensive in Div VI.
Secondly he was heavily subsidized by our tax dollars simply by virtue of the fact that many of his seminars where given as part of INSCOM’s RAPT (Rapid Advancement Personal Training) and supported by the CIA with their black budget.
Thirdly I was never aware of any all out effort to “personally ruin Erhard” by Ron and I worked in what was known as the “Squirrel Buster” unit under RTC.
They weren’t even on our radar.
Our main problem was the ACC who were sending in people to steal advanced course materials and E-meters.
However I handled cases that were totally butchered by Est and later Forum.
And I mean BUTCHERED (wrong items and indications, out ruds, inval ,eval,engrams thrown into restim etc..
A 53 that I did on a EST grad who got “it” whatever “it” was lit up like a Christmas tree on all sections.
(I can see why the Military wanted this “tech”)
However if you feel Est is so great than I suggest you sign up for Forum because its the same thing under a different name.
Lawrence,
Glad you appreciated the movie. Most didn’t. I personally found the movie to be an embarrassment which reflected LRH’s book in rather a dismal light. Most public it seems felt the same way. Here are the stats for the film:
“Battlefield Earth (2000)
Poster for Battlefield Earth, directed by Roger Christian. considered the worst Sci-fi film since “Plan 9 from Outer Space”.
Based on the first half of L. Ron Hubbard’s novel of the same name and starring John Travolta, Forest Whitaker, and Barry Pepper, this film had the third-worst 3,000-plus-theater opening weekend up to that time. It was criticized for its poor script, hammy acting by Travolta, overuse of Dutch angles, laughable dialogue, and several plot inconsistencies. More than one reviewer called the film “Travolting”.[42] Rob Vaux called the film a “crime against celluloid”.[43] Roger Ebert predicted that the film “for decades to come will be the punch line of jokes about bad movies.”[44] It is also on his “most hated” list.[45] The film has a 3% rating at Rotten Tomatoes,[46] and was included in their Top 100 worst reviewed movies of the last 10 years.[47] It won seven Golden Raspberry Awards, including Worst Picture and Worst Screen Couple (John Travolta and “anyone on the screen with him”).[48] In 2005, an eighth Razzie (for Worst “Drama” of Our First 25 Years) was awarded to the film,[49] and in 2010 the film won a ninth Razzie at the 30th Golden Raspberry Awards for “Worst Picture of the Decade”.[50] The movie also appeared on Metacritic’s list of the all-time lowest-scoring films,[51] is on the MRQE’s 50 Worst Movies list,[52] and remains on the IMDb bottom 100.[9] It is #1 on both the Bottom 200 movie list at Everyone’s a Critic,[17] and the 100 worst movies list at DigitalDreamDoor.com.[33] Maxim magazine printed, “Even Quentin Tarantino couldn’t revive Travolta’s career after this movie.” The movie’s distributor, Franchise Pictures, was later forced out of business after it emerged that it had overstated the film’s budget by $31 million.”
Is confusion actually blowing off on this thread?
Or is someone causing the apparent dispersal that I feel is occurring?
it was just a joke…
while DM is enjoying his high profile and entertainment, staff are “forced” to give $15 out of 50 of their pay to buy DM another jacket…
they are invalidate and overworked…
this is what is really wrong with that picture…
😀
It’s extremely difficult for people who weren’t there and rely for their data on the Church, media and internet, to connect the dots and fill in the blanks. Your viewpoint on the GO may not have changed but it sure does increase my understanding. I never understood why MSH (and some others) had taken the bait and couldn’t figure the relation between LRH and that flub. He told us that an SP in charge would get rid of 80% of staff, but I can’t figure out why the slandering of upstat executives by Davey was accepted and acted upon without investigation. Nor can I understand why the false reports by Pat about Davey’s sec checks weren’t properly acted on; that alone might have prevented the biggest flub in all of Scientology and understanding it may prevent similar future flubs.
Thank you for your great ack. very much appreciated!
You are welcome!! 😀
hug!!
You are very welcome!! hug…
Whoooops! This comment is way misplaced! I meant it to go at the end of the comments to date…. down past Observer’scomment of 4:01 AM Nov 7th….
Sorry, it’s really non-seq here where it ended up.
Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
If your blog is receiving lots of spam comments (not E-Mail) you could do the following:
Search the IP provider like on page:
http://ip-detective.info
Then you get a listing like the following:
NetRange: 74.208.0.0 – 74.208.255.255
CIDR: 74.208.0.0/16
OriginAS:
NetName: 1AN1-NETWORK
NetHandle: NET-74-208-0-0-1
Parent: NET-74-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NSA2.1AND1.COM
NameServer: NSA.1AND1.COM
Comment: For abuse issues, please use only abuse@1and1.com
RegDate: 2006-11-22
Updated: 2009-08-12
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-74-208-0-0-1
Then write a friendly mail to: abuse@1and1.com
stating the details.
You should provide exact IP and time, then the provider knows the sender of the spam.
Before you do that check if it is legal in the US to do that.
In germany it is illegal to make records of IPs of visitors of your home page.
Note on NetRange:
All IPs between 74.208.0.0 and 74.208.255.255 are hosted by this provider.
Would do that for the top spammers and also issue the letter on your blog.
I like almost all of what you say too, Tony and admire you as well. I think my sentence to start my post was out ARC. I will say though that I actually didn’t DEFEND anyone or ATTACK anyone.
My friend, read over and listen to what you’ve just said.
You’re not “ready to condemn me as an OSA bot”
I’ve DRAWN ATTENTION TO MYSELF (to be possibly condemned as an enemy) by originating a different point of view.
I’ve read the story of you and your wife and frankly, I was outraged by it. You communicated and you “drew attention to yourself” and was investigated as a possible enemy to be handled, and then you were condemned all because you questioned something.
Blog spam is hard to contain; unlike email it’s not relayed through several vias – it’s direct from the browser to your blog.
WordPress and your ISP can probably assist. If you don’t already have a handling in place, I would start looking for a WordPress module that works like fail2ban – the IP gets blacklisted for a short period (say 5 minutes) and is firewalled out. If the spam persists when they are allowed back on, they get blacklisted again for a longer period. And so on and so on. The software takes care of all the details so you can concentrate on just tagging posts as spam or not.
It’s is the only technique I’ve found that works for persistent nuisances on the net.
Alan
I did both the Comm Course and the STCC, and I think highly of both. When I did the STCC I did a lot of OT-TRO while on it, and actually got my Major Stable Win at that time.
I liked the STCC drills because my social communication was a major ruin for me, and some of the STCC drills were exactly what solved it.
I concluded doing OT-TRO to a Major Stable Win ought to be a priority, then the other drills, TRs O >4, the STCC drills, and the Upper Indocs, plus a Dianetics Seminar would have provided the basic tools which could have gone a long way towards “Clearing the Planet” the way I understood that phrase – having many thousands of people willing and able to deliver Book One auditing.
Incidentally, one outness when I did the Comm Course in 1972 was that OT-TRO had been removed from it. I had to play “catch-up” on it later.
So there were some squirreling the tech even back then, from within the CoS. Possibly that could happen because of the horizontal structure and very lack of the vertical micro- management RJ referred to in his post.
Dragonfly
I hear you! Just wanted you to know that.
I think it’s likely DM is not just “f*cking up”, but is deliberately restructuring the Co$ to eliminate tech delivery except to a privileged few. He has set about creating ” the Scientology religion, based on the works of L Ron Hubbard.” BASED ON is the key phrase which allows for alteration of the entire body of materials and tech itself, as well as distancing LRH from it all.
He is also restructuring to eliminate Dissemination to a broad public. By putting in A/V terminals he can eliminate much of the need for staff at all, except for supervisors of those studying the Basics and doing the little Self-Improvement courses or whatever they’re called these days.
I believe he is not interested in recruiting the broad public at all, and is only interested in seeking out corporate donors and others with money like TC, people successful in the Entertainment industry for example. His model is recruiting “princes” to support the acquisition and maintenance of his “cathedrals” (IdealOrgs), while providing a life of luxury for himself as the “Pope”of it all.
The “princes” who are “upstat” enough to contribute big bucks to his religion will be the privileged few who can receive auditing services; they will be “The Elect”.
The concept of “The Elect” goes far back to early Christianity and back into Judaism. DM has convinced TC that TC is one of “the Elect”, along with DM, who are responsible for the “stewardship” of those who are not so fortunately chosen by God.
Perhaps I am giving DM too much credit here, for actually having a plan, but I believe his actions are not just random,but he is following a plan.
Targeting corporate owners and big donors and restricting availability of the Bridge, would appeal to those who would see the potential advantage of having “tech”available to them that would help them stay on top and maintain their advantages in life, while keeping others down. They would be willing to pay quite a lot for it.
In other words, DM is restructuring LRH’s legacy into a “religion” that will be just another control operation that will appeal to the rich and powerful as another way to maintain their advantageous positions in life.
I think DM is not”just a f*ckup”, I think he is doing this knowingly.
Phil,
You know that Martin is telling the truth don’t you?
You have my all of my data on file. If you need help to get out you know how to contact me (or Martin).
It’s never too late to get honest, straight and honorable again.
1. Tom De Vocht
2. Mark Fisher
3. Steve Hall
4. Jeff Hawkins
5. Bruce Hines
6. Eric Knutson
7. Dan Koon
8. Gary “Jackson” Morehead
9. John Peeler
10. Karen Pressley
11. Marty Rathbun
12. Mike Rinder
13. Amy Scobee
14. Janela Webster
Those mentionse above, and as others have mentioned, these people either witnessed or experienced a Miscavige beating:
15) Larry Brennan
16) Don Larsen
17) Jesse Prince
also,
18) David Mayo
19) John Aczel
20) Stacey Young
21) Marc Yager (still in cult)
22) RayMithoff (still in cult)
23) Guillaume Lesevre (still in cult)
24) Norman Starkey (still in cult)
25) Debbie Cook (left cult, but not talking out)
26) Marc Ingber (still in cult)
27) Jason Bennick (left cult, but not talking out)
28) Shelly Miscavige (whereabouts unknown)
29) Homer Schomer
30) Steve Marlowe
31) Gerry Armstrong
32) Chris Guider (former RTC MAA, left cult, not speaking out yet)
33) Ken Hoden (sill in cult, on RPF)
34) Don Larsen (int finance police, left cult)
35) Andre Taboyan (left cult)
36) Vicki Aznaren (left cult and signed a gag order)
37) Fernando Gamboa (left cult)
38) Greg Wilhere (still in cult)
39) Jennifer Linson (still in cult)
Carly was briefly in Scientology, but her 2D at the time (James Taylor) warned her that it was a cult.
Oh yeah, #40 Rick Cruzen.
LOL!
Tony – neither you nor Jim have anything to fear from my acerbic tone.
A ‘real man’ can minimally state his opinion, openly and publicly, and sign his name to it.
DM has no masculinity to salvage nor admiration to be gained or maintained.
When you lose the respect and admiration of others, it doesn’t matter how much you bluster and bluff. The game is already lost.
The OT committee for my org has a set of stats that look like that. I think they may have ben posted here before. Stuff like “Dollar amount raised for ideal org” etc. Most of the stats are superficial and lead to no product. For example, they will do a stress test with no intention of the person going into the org and starting a service because I think one of the stats is “talking to people ” or something like that.
Jethro. Chris Guider has an artiicle on Steve Hall’s blog (Scientology-cult). If you are going to list people who are still in the SO this is a very incomplete list. There are hundreds. Even NSOs like Dan Sherman and Chris Smith.
Dan, yours is an absolutely great comment. As you might put it, C-O-N-T-E-X-T is important. Not to mention, relative importances. Not to mention actual observations of actual events.
A lot of HE&R (human emotion and reaction) gets restimulated (yes, restimulated) when LRH gets discussed among indies, exes, and other interested persons, including anons and never-been-in critics. It’s just the way it goes, and I’d be surprised if it didn’t.
Many people here ‘know’ stuff they have learned in echo chambers. Logic is great, and I’m certainly not knocking that. But logic can only work with FACTS that are known. That’s why I’m most interested in hearing from those who can report on all of what they’ve observed. Not on what they read on some blog written by somebody who read on some board what somebody overhead in a coffee shop that somebody else said was told to them.
Thanks to all of those who care enough to post here, especially those who have seen things first-hand. I learn from the ensuing discussion.
Just Me
It’s because of what people like me can do with the information you post about yourself and what I can find out about you. Like where you live and when you are on holiday.
Good point Joe.
I think that when you make out of ARC comments on this blog TO the people on the blog or distract from the purpose of this blog then you become suspect. We are in a precarious position here. You and I were not subjected to the degradation (at least not to the degree) and psychological abuse that these Sea Org guys went through. We need to help remedy this overt. Digressing onto other subjects or creating distractions from the main purpose starts to become an enemy action after being warned about it. You have influence. Use it wisely.
🙂
Tony
Whew!! 🙂
Sarge,
Do not apologize!
GT’s communication is nothing more than an evaluative put-down which is uncalled for and has little use or effect other than to push in anchor points.
ARC does NOT equate to appropriate response on the tone-scale.
Perhaps GT finds it difficult to confront having ARC for someone regardless of the tone level being used?. I don’t. I find Sarge to be highly highly ARCful in every tone level expressed.
I am sick and tired of this C of M false-datum that ARC = sweetness and light. Give me the reference that says we should always all remain static at 3.5!!! Here’s one that doesn’t:
‘MISEMOTIONAL’: ‘1. such a word would indicate that a person did not display the emotion called for by the actual circumstances of the situation.(SOS p. 49) 2. being misemotional is synonymous with being irrational (SOS p. 49).’
Go on then… tell me that I can’t be ‘Sam’ because the ‘Sam’ you know has ARC.. (what is this? Some form of Black Scientology to invalidate a person’s identity?)
Another troll type behavior pattern seems to be for new-comers on the blog to needle and undermine senior and well loved persons by inserting small snippets of covert inval and eval designed to cut their comm.
Sarge. Take that knife out of your back and realize that in certain occasions (such as this one – where someone is pretending to be ‘higher toned’ when in actual fact they are being completely 1.1), getting ‘sudden’ (or responding in the appropriate tone level) is completely justified.
Jim,
I’ve got to dig out my Data Series. I had forgotten these points. One thing about LRH, he was all about workability. Did it produce the intended result? And if after a while, such as with creative processing, if he found a need to move on he did.
Tony,
I noticed it too.
You need to add to your list snide comments inserted under the guise of trying to understand something or trying to be helpful.
“The worst evil….judging”
Per which philosophy or reference or in who’s opinion other than your own?
Not judging, just asking.
It helps a lot Dan.
Dan,
One thing missing, are LRH’s despatch traffic to ASI, which I contend, are from which DM takes his “only one” misinterpretation.
In a couple of the ASI despatches, LRH says that one or another of the ASI staff are SENIOR to some CMO Int people, and from THAT comment in one despatch, and from a couple other minor comments to DM as COB ASI, is how DM has extrapolated his “top role” of the movement.
Coordination Council PLs of 1982 and the corporate sort out and command chanels sort out, contain how the top of the movement was to be run.
The COB ASI or COB RTC “religious leader” was NOT LRH’s vision of how the movement was to be run.
Coord Council PLs and LRH ED 339R Int (the Exec Strata setup), Watchdog Committee and Int Headquarters, was the top of the movement setup LRH wrote and ordered.
The deterioration of top management these last 30 years, I think deserves a book.
All the firsthand revelations told on this site, should be extracted, further interviewed, and woven into the last 30 years of top management Scientology history, in a book.
The upcoming book by Janet Reitman I fear won’t have all the juicy details firsthand revealed on this blog.
Dan, why don’t you do a history of your years at Int?
Loki,
Nah, if we had a troll patrol, two hundred years from now the phrase “going on a troll hunt” would supplant going on a witch hunt.
I’d prefer a theta patrol. Spot the theta.
The accent is on ability.
I wish you’d write a book Mike.
^^^^ Just one of the many reasons I like Michael!
Just Me
EST looked like group wrong indication sessions, to me, the group ganging up on one person at a time, forcing wrong indications on that person, until they achieved “it”.
The EST group procedure seems a little like something DM got the Int Base staff to do on each other, where people targeted and forced false confessions out of the scapegoat Int Base staffer who was conveniently considered the “who” for whichever most recent flap DM wanted to target someone for.
And to me, this seems almost a group human failing, since not only are people suckered into paying to do this at EST/Forum, but people like the well intentioned top management people at the Int Base could be pressured into doing it on each other for free.
Group wrong indication, mob wrong indication.
Tony,
My intention is to see Scientology work so this planet can become sane. What we are doing here is very important. And pretty much anyone in the world can access this blog to see what we are doing and why.
And with the current surge of press about Scientology and radical Scientology, interested audiences will form and seek answers. Many will end up here, reading what is written and observing how independent Scientologists interact. So we have some obligation to comport ourselves as beings who want to” know how” to know versus a sampling of paranoids justifying and defending our fixed ideas.
You are right that not all questions need be answered here. How much flour goes into pancakes is irrelevant. But matters pertaining to LRH and the subject of Scientology have some relevance. And we have some responsibility to direct individuals to reliable sites to get answers.
Margaret referenced a letter by Prouty on the post “Worse than Fair Game.” It was revelatory after having read almost every anti-LRH and anti-Scientology book out there. There are so many lies and half truths and suspicions and…and…and floating around out there that we must address these things and come to terms with them. Whether LRH wanted a biography or not, he deserves a fair one. And those looking for answers about him and about Scientology deserve a fair answer to all the misconceptions.
Perhaps that is not the purpose of this blog. But this blog serves as a channel of information to people all over the world. And that channel will only widen. Which gives us an opportunity.
As for this being Marty and Mike’s blog to do with as they wish, I think a more pan determined view is in order. Both of them are driven by duty. Both of them are driven by honor. And I think it goes beyond us letting them do it right or wrong. Both Marty and Mike are my responsibility. Just as I am their’s. And yours. And everyone here.
In that, we have a chance. Without that, we really do not.
I completely have given up on Scientology. But I am a realist, it will continue, and I personally hope through this blog and other blogs that the movement is influenced to reform.
I wish Sinar, Mike Rinder, Dan Koon, and Sarge and others would please write books on their lives and observations.
This site now has SO MUCH important history firsthand observations.
Thanks again Marty for going public these last couple years.
Chuck,
Your observation is very accurate, from my perspective. When auditing someone who’d been through Landmark or the Forum or whatever they are calling EST now – those exact thoughts went through my mind.
Marty
Thanks.
Thanks a LOT for going public.
And thanks for encouraging others to remember history and tell it as they experienced it.
I think only good will come from honestly telling history.
Too bad discussions like these couldn’t go on at top management ranks.
Too bad, I”m an old LRH ED 339R addict, Exec Strata and Watchdog Committee members couldn’t log onto this blog and even participate here.
thanks for going public!
And such stats can be cumulative, and thus ALWAYS rising, and easily depicted as positive.
These stats can be summarized as “Cumulative hype”
Mike,
Christ! Your own view? Next you’ll want your own space. And then the right to put things in that space. And next you’ll be moving stuff around in that space as you see fit. And then you’ll want your own voice, and fair compensation for your labor. When will it end?
If you give a mouse a cookie….blah, blah.
Life can be so much simpler.
Have you not heard of the Patriot Act: all men are created equal–as long as they keep their mouths shut and their zippers zipped.
Speaking of, I was about to respond to you earlier, but my wife leaned over the rail, did that thing with her eyebrows and…well, distracted me. Darn those distractions, anywhoo.
Just Me,
Blush.
Don’t appologize. Your friends are partly part of the suppressive group you left, so you deserted the suppressive part of them you didn’t want to befriend anyhow. If by your actions the group ceases to be suppressive, your friends will be able to be wholehearted friends without being suppressed. Staying is against the code of honor as by contributing to the suppression you’re deserting your comrades in need.
Chuck,
If you remember our time together in RTRC, you may recall my never once expressing any comments about the management side of things. My interest extended as far as occasionally checking the Int stats (mostly Wiebke Hansen’s fantasy stat book from Hamburg) and that was it.
Having done some books for other people I know that books are relatively hard things to do and one about Int Management and its descent into wonderland is not one I would even attempt. I have written a few posts over on Steve’s site about my recollections of LRH and will one day get back to those and would definitely edit and compile a book of people’s recollections about LRH entitled at Marty’s suggestion, LRH and Me, should enough people want to write up their stories about him. I think that might furnish a multiple viewpoint system biography of the man, quite different from the mythological one that Dan Sherman has supposedly been writing for nigh on 20 years now!
But, me writing a book on Int Management? Don’t count on it.
Hymie, Hope you got to see some of the parade they held to celebrate the Giants championship. One million people at tone 8.0 made quite a lasting impression on everyone who was there. Total group creation of theta. Not a single arrest. And with their pitching they could repeat. Go, Gigantes!
Dan, I’m putting together the forum for it soon.
That’s SFO for ya.
Once — well, lucky you. I too would opt for the eyebrows!
In this photo, a few years later and without a chance to have his makeup put on, he definitely has the look and skin of a long-term barfly:
Tom, Davey .. oh .. and Katie too
Marty, I publicly apologize to you for posting entheta on your blog. It was inappropriate. Still, you posted what I wrote in the spirit of Free Speech. Your detractors are wrong about you: You post things you disagree with.
I respect you and your work and your blog too much to cause trouble here. I like posting here and find “Moving On Up a Little Higher” to be the best blog on the planet when it comes to Scientology.
What I will do is post a thread about est on OCMB. Now that OCMB is accepting new members, anyone who wants to get an account there can register and we can discuss est in a respectful manner. OCMB has three excellent moderators and we do not allow flame wars, trolls, or nonsense.
I am personally very interested in est and CoS. I will present my evidence there and not enturbulate people here.
RJ, I am interested in your data. I would like to compare notes with you or anyone else. This subject has never gotten a good public discussion from people on both sides. It would be a good discussion, and, it is not appropriate here.
/////
Mike,
I responded to your comment to Joe the way I did for the exact reason I stated, that I felt it was irresponsible on your part to so quickly cast suspicion on him as possibly being sent here as an OSA troll. It’s as simple as that.
Admittedly, Joe’s approach was not the most in-ARC manner possible, but it doesn’t invalidate the validity of his point about the existence of the culture of violence and force outside the influences of DM.
Because you disagree with what he said or how he said it, you tarnished him with suspicion of operating in a condition of treason. I think that’s wrong to have done.
I happen to disagree with Joe that DM is concentrated on too heavily on this blog. DM is suppressive and should be removed. The more light of truth that can be shed on the specifics of his destructive actions, the better.
I do not agree that one shouldn’t say something on this blog based on fear of being considered an OSA bot or dupe. As each new story gets posted about DM’s horrendous acts, what comes to my mind is that it needs to stop. Not just stop DM, but stop the abuse and suppressiveness. When I read about what he’s done to people, I shake my head with disgust. I close my eyes and contemplate the nature of it. I find myself recalling incident after vivid incident of first hand observations and experiences of abuse and violence that existed prior to DM’s reign of terror. I’m not saying LRH created that. I’m not an LRH basher. I’m not a judge. But in addition to exposing DM and getting rid of him, I think it is very pertinent and crucial to take a look at the facts pertaining to how this culture came about.
If the suppression within the church were to suddenly cease there would be no need to get rid of DM. I know that’s farfetched and I say it only to introduce my point that if DM were to die or blow or be removed, would the suppression suddenly cease? I say no. Why? Because I have seen it and experienced it prior to DM. It was pushed in place slowly over time by others’ misinterpretation or willful misapplication or arrogance or hypnotism or whatever, but it existed. It was already a culture ripe for the turbo-accelerated abuse that DM had up his sleeve. True, as you say, it was a much, much better environment prior to DM. But look at all those who still operate on DM’s tech, thinking that it’s OK and based on some LRH policy, advice, or internal directive.
To discuss these points is valid and should not be met with accusations of treason or spying.
Your question as to what is my purpose for being on this blog is quite valid: I’m interested in the justice factor pertaining to how DM or anyone else in power has corrupted the subject and culture of Scientology.
I don’t want to make this post too long, but I’d like to address another point you made: “So what if you satisfy yourself that the culture now being carried out by Miscavige is a result of the pattern laid out by LRH.” I’m not trying to satisfy myself that LRH laid in a pattern of any kind along this line. I don’t know if he did or didn’t, but you ask “And then what?” Well, if all the corruption ceases by the removal of DM, then there is no ‘and then what’. But if there is validity to this corruption extending beyond and prior to DM, it will not disappear and your “And then what?” becomes very pertinent.
By all means, nail DM, as I think that will go a long ways towards clearing up the corruption, especially if it were to come about through proper justice actions overall. But I think it’s a multi-headed snake that will not die until the the full extent of the who, how, what, why, where and when are ultimately uncovered and squared around.
Thank you for communicating with me, Mike.
No Marty, I was not in the least bit upset to see Wayne disappear from this blog whether you bounced him or not. He was driving me nuts with the constant and extensive hobby-horsing of the non-violent communication thing. I’ve only seen you bounce people for legitimate reasons, ‘OT VIII’ as a case in point who was invalidative and schzizophrenic as far as I’m concerned. Thanks for checking with me on that, though.
Joe’s a friend of mine. I know him. I worked with him and know how he is. I just plain didn’t like him being tarnished as a spy or dupe because of what he said. The rest of my thought on this is as per the above response to Mike.
Kirsi,
I can understand why you say this. A couple of days ago I did find myself confused about the content of that day’s blog. I couldn’t figure out what the ‘LT’ email was, didn’t understand the ‘photobucket’ comment and didn’t know what the upset with Aaron Saxton was about. I got it all cleared up.
Other than that I’ve been tracking clearly and understand everything well. I’m not sure what your point is about Caliwog’s blog or me having two faces, but that’s OK. If you wish to clarify it that would be nice, but you don’t have to.
As far as my name is concerned, to show my sincerity to Marty, I gave him my full name when I donated to the Daniel project. I don’t wish to share it with others at this time.
It is appropriate here. Maybe I’ll post on it one day.
Once,
Words of wisdom.
OTDT, I understand. Sometimes emotions get the better of us.
Sinar,
I’ll take his comm as a whole, rather than dissect it as you suggest. He’s not a troll. It’s a highly charged subject and HE & R can occur. I don’t consider it Dev-T.
Jim,
It means that in addition to DM, there is evidence that he is not the sole cause of the creation of a culture of suppression and violence in the church. I’m not saying or insinuating it’s LRH. But it did exist prior to DM. Not as bad, but it was there. Someone was misapplying sumpthin along these lines. Smart to look at it, I say. (without diverting from DM)
Joe,
The fact that you were being attacked for having a different point of view, which in no way was offensive, was the reason I objected.
Thanks OTDT. Apprecite your intelligent comm. I don’t think you are incorrect, I just have a different perspective on things. You defend JP because you know him, good for you. I defended Watching Eyes when someone jumped down his throat because I know that person. So, props to you for that. I dont know JP and I challenged him because a standard pattern of OSA is to try and deflect attention off DM. Exposing his dirty underwear usually gets a knee-jerk of spam on the blog, pizza deliveries, random phone calls from weirdos, more cars in the PI follow-the-leader game and trolls on the blog. As you know in the last few days the spamming of the blog has been cranked up. So, there you go, its why I asked JP if he was trolling.
Hi Once,
I agree with everything you said here.
I do think it is important to realize that these guys (M&M) are under fire and being attacked. It is easy for us to sit back and grandly say “they should hear everyone out”. It becomes a bit more complicated when they know that there are people trying to infiltrate to sabotage the fight. When some person is trying to get “his questions answered” he should do so with respect to those who have come before him and who are really taking much more responsibility for righting the wrongs.
Erwin,
Personally I think an investigation was thrwarted by plants that his Satanic Majesty claims he got rid of.
Jim,
As time is the basic source of abberation, it very well may be pertinent when casting the net to reel in the corruption of the tech and culture of the church. DM is the current live Who, but the entirety of the matter is not just the who. The What and When and How this came about are important in order to fully understand the entire Why of this matter.
Thank you, Tony.
This is a derail. What do you mean by “Wiebke Hansen’s fantasy stat book from Hamburg”? I was on staff when Hamburg went Saint Hill Size. Not true? I guess I know the answer. Has this story already come out somewhere?
Thanks.
Chuck,
Very astute observation.
You’ve pretty much captured the essense of what EST was all about and shown the parallel to the operation that Miscavige is running.
Personally I’ve always thought that Miscavige was too mentally handicaped to have an original thought of his own and it seems what he considers “source” is more likely Werner Erhard not L Ron Hubbard.
Especially when you consider the fact that Erhard’s “tech” was more of a control operation than anything else.
Mike,
Totally understandable. No worries mate. I appreciate and learn from the different perspectives such as yours on this blog.
RJ and Chuck are onto something here. Really.
That’s very true about cumulative stats, Chuck.
They are virtually impossible to bring down.
Yet Miscavige and his team have managed to crash the Clear stat which is actually lower now than it was in the early ’80’s by at least half.
OTDT, I have to say that I was not familiar with a culture of suppression and violence in the church prior to DM. And I was on staff prior to DM. Many staffs, many locations, GO and SO. Organizationally, there were stat pushes, lots of focus and long hours, but that is all fine. No laws broken. Lots of ARC and wins.
I used to drill Heber on reporter TR’s. And I will confirm they had nothing to do with lying. Simple drills to avoid direct answers and change the subject, that sort of thing. They are practiced universally outside the church as well. They are designed to keep one from having to lie and to retake the offensive in a give and take.
My opinion on the need for change is that the structure of the organization, the secrecy, the KR system, the focus on money, end justifies the means, the authoritarianism, did predate DM and is in need of overhaul or removal. It actually allowed a DM to happen. I guess I just want a kindler, gentler organization. Not mamby-pamby. But an organization which actually practices the tenets it preaches.
Yelling, screaming, even fistfights can and do happen in any workplace. Assholes and SP’s are not confined to any sphere of life. One finds them in every workplace. But a religious leaning organization should have less or none of it. And that is how it used to be. Less or none. Thats not the case today. I suppose I dont really consider scientology a religion. I consider it a mental/emotional/spiritual therapy. And a good one when practiced correctly.
So I guess that the structure is my greatest concern. It has led us to where we are with an abusive tyrant on the top, a constant exodus of the best and brightest, and a public image soon to rival the Third Reich.
Nothing apparently changes until he and his no longer can suppress. So I suggest we keep the focus where it needs to be. When change comes, and it will come, there are folks here I trust to do the right thing.
2nd Mxr.
Thank you for telling this story. Understood.
Just for the record I’ve never considered JP to be working for OSA.
He just seems to be doing OSA’s job for them by deflecting to debate to how bad Ron or the tech or policy is and basically assigns wrong source to the cause of the current difficulties.
Also in my opinion Miscavige is basically only a who.
Behind that is a why.
However stating the “why” is any policy or tech or some mythical order by Ron giving his Satanic Majesty full reign is just assigning delusional cause and granting power to the deluded “Pope of Scientology”.
I mean the only thing in writing he can refer to are various news articles and Government acceptance of his position as “Religious Leader”.
There is nothing in Policy nor even in any directive conferring such absolute power.
Even according to RTC’s own legal dox there is supposed to be a board of Trustees which Miscavige is only supposed to be a part of that is supposed consist of no less than four members and no more than seven.
The number may seem familar to some because it comes from the HCOPL ‘Groups vs Individuals’ where Ron gives the optimum number in a group.
Miscavige is a fraud in that aspect since there is no Board of Directors of any kind that he would be Chairman of.
Just ask Marty.
Whatever board there was was dissolved in the late nineties and any existence of a board prior to that even under Broeker was purely illusionary.
It was probably one of the biggest scams ever perputrated on Ron and Scientologists in general.
Next to the sabotage of CST which if it existed as it was supposed exist as the top jewel in the crown of the Scientology would have put a stop to power hungry Broeker and Miscavige both who in my opinion were supported by outside interests.
Also in my opinion anyone who says that it was the tech or policy or Ron is at leats as Jack Nicholson once said “missing important plot points” aside from pissing people off who actual know more about policy than selected quotes intentionally published out of context on the internet and have known the Ol’man personally.
He for one minute would never tolerate someone like Miscavige claiming to be the Galactic ruler of Scientology.
Jeeze Inky,
All you have to do is look at Hamburg’s PR Area control.
In my opinion probably half their public and staff belonged to the OPC.
J Swift,
I would like to reciprocate by apologizing for any emotional attack I made in the spirit of your post.
I’ll admit my understanding of Est is very limited to cases I have audited who were former members of Est and to personal research of the subject.
I was never personally involved with Est.
I can tell you we viewed Est, Eckankar, the Process, Amprinistics etc basically as “squirrel groups” or “splinter groups” and not as enemies to attack.
Unless they attacked or tried to infiltrate the Church which is what AAC attempted to do at the time.
I know there are some who think Mayo was a great humanitarian and stalwart of “Standard Tech” and maybe Davy and his gang of misfits pushed him over the edge.
But the fact is that he did run a very dirty intelligence op against the Church and that his backyard barbeques weren’t all sweetness and light.
Unlike Est he tried pulling Scientologists off the bridge and sell his own brand of altered “Scientology” to them.
Anyway I look forward to any objective comments you’d like to make on the subject Erhard and Est.
Ml
RJ
The only thing I saw on scientology-cult.com is Chris Guider’s resignation. Is there some other document you’re referring to? Do you have a link to it?
And thus I would agree doing some list correction, a 53, on someone who’d been given this type of intense group wrong indication, should get some relief, and I wouldn’t be opposed to that.
Hope you guys do some correction on each other for all that crap done.
Myself, my most painful moment, was sitting in the OSA Int conference room, being shown a document with some of my pc folder transgressions I coughed up decades earlier, rewritten as if I was STILL committing those overts, and realizing I had just been branded a future potential enemy of Scientology, and seeing that I was considered a future enemy inescapably, no matter how I tried to argue out of it.
I wish Scientology can evolve so it does NOT paint its departing members with these institutionalized legalized documented signed legal docs that are wrong indications that only drive the departing members to even MORE rancor against Scientology.
On the RPF, my two favorite tapes were Individuation and the 1966 About Rhodesia tapes, on this point of letting the people who blow, let them go. LRH said in 1959, they’ll come back. And About Rhodesia LRH gives what a real sp is, not all these staff who were frantic and who were given so many injustices and wrong indications that they were driven to extreme views for their own self preservation.
My policy I live by today, which I can live with, is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the point about NOT penalizing a person for changing their religion, and I think Good Roads Good Weather (and TWTH Precept 20), AND I’d have to throw in Jim Dincalci’s emphasis on forgiveness.
DM’s a bad person, he does need to be shown for what he is, and somehow ejected from his position, since he’s not doing anyone good where he is.
As a side thought, I had posted when you first went public, and were taking some responsibility, Marty, I posted that DM should take this opportunity to apologize, and publicly turn over a new leaf at Int, and STOP the violence, and admit it was wrong.
He should have just asked forgiveness, admitted what he’d done, and thanked you Marty for speaking up.
THAT would have been a far better move on DM’s part.
Now, it will likely be longer, until the official Scientologists get from amongst their midst, any admission about DM’s abuse history.
Maybe, secretly in the hearts of Heber, Lyman, Wilhere(s) (Greg and Hugh), Marc Yager, Guilliuame, Wendell, Ingber, they might have some tiny corner of their thoughts about what Scientology might be WITHOUT DM.
There’d be a huge resurgence once DM’s out of there.
DM’s only way out is some public admissions for what he’s done.
Otherwise his star (the one he used to wear on his Sea Org uniform, I think it was the vaunted Loyal Officer star conferred on him by Pat Broeker) means even less than what he thought it meant for those times he wore that little gold star pin at those few events he wore it.
He ain’t no Loyal Officer of LRH.
A book on David Miscavige is called for.
There’s PLENTY of people who will add their firsthand stories to THAT book!
I’m with on that Chuck.
Love your attitude.
And I’ve always considered you a friend.
Ml
Robin
P.S.
Chuck the offers still open.
If you’re ever in LA and want a session I’ll be happy to give you one for free.
Someone else commented it was Marc Yager, who in my opinion out of self preservation, somehow figured out how to present these cumulative-never-any-fear-of-being DOWN stats, for showing at the big events, so DM had something to brag about.
I sort of chuckled, if he is the one who slid these cumulative stats past DM, it shows, like you observed, that DM is pretty ignorant of basic stats policy to have this type of stat presented to him, for use at events, to show the expansion. At least Marc staved off some of DM’s wrath at Marc and it is a sick act, but I thought at least Marc saved himself from some DM abuse by doing it. But so sad that that is how low the top admin mind in Scientology had to sink, the former IG Admin slipping this by ignorant DM.
Marc Yager and Guilliaume probably have some of the most gruesome abuse stories to someday reveal.
This is so sad, and it is inconceivable that LRH would have wanted this of the people LRH was entrusting to be top management.
I hope Marc and Guilliaume someday get in a place they can speak up.
Your comm received and understod Tony.
Chuck. Bullseye on every point. Miscavige considers this is the ONLY thin Cueball can do. He tries as hard as he can to come up with “stats” that VE will accept. You gotta admit, some of these are pretty creative: square inches of book cover cloth used, feet of laminate and number of pieces of dirt removed from films! The only thing I dont agree with you about is DM’s ignorance. DM knows this is all bs — he believes the public are too stupid to realize it.
This is for Sam:
Sam:
Thank you for the more detailed clarification.
Apparently, there are more film connoisseurs around than most people suspect.
Mike Rinder’s book if he ever wrote one would SOAR to the top of the New York Times best seller’s list!
Can you imagine all the underhanded dirty OSA tricks that the church management meted out to “Mike Rinder or else”? This information alone would clear up 100’s and 1000’a MU’s on unsolved crimes and mysteries that took place in the public domain in regards to people the church was after?
Take for example someone that was a neighbor of Paulette Cooper’s for several years and could never quite duplicate why someone across the street was constantly filming what was going on in Paulette’s apartment.
That kind of thing. He would make a fortune telling the truth.
Mike,
I know you’ve been around this abusive lil’ prick more than any of us posting this board.
However.
I gotta agree with Chuck.
Miscavige strikes me as the low IQ self important type that Ron describes in KSW.
In fact I’ve seen grapefruit with more intellectual capacity.
Larry,
Even Helen Keller if she were alive today would of told you that turkey of a “movie” would never fly.
Siskel is probably still spinning in his grave.
Anyone who still has a DVD of it.
I suggest using it as a coaster.
Say what you will about “Battlefield Earth”. But, it has always been a real question to me if there wasn’t something anyone could learn from it.
Wow, three times…now THAT’s punishment!
LRH, from the Spirit of Man Congress Lectures — making others guilty of overts is in itself an overt. It’s pretty easy to see when you are out.
Loki,
Your basic views do not seem to differ from mine. Due to the fact that I have witnessed abuse, intimidation and violence by other terminals than DM and prior to DM, I say that my mention of that IS focusing on the pertinent matter.
It’s not a diversion to consider how that applies to the subject matter of abuse and squirreling in the church. This concept is met with disagreement and opposition here on this blog. I am a proponent for bringing DM to justice for his numerous crimes. I have no desire to try to force my views about this on anyone or invalidate them for not agreeing with me. It is what I think.
Or maybe you do have me confused with someone else.
And PLUS – allow me to try to get one of the last words in – David Miscavige and Tom Cruise are going to look like total retarded people when they are in their 60’s and 70’s in life posing on motorcycles.
Most people at that age, settle down and lead very quiet lives. Such as I try to do.
So the WHY would be: blank resignation letters for executives?
As far as I know those resignations only applied to ASI staff.
He might have used them at the base as well.
However I don’t see the relevance Erwin.
Please explain.
Sorry Sarge, I have just understood the sense of you original message below. I am not an english spoken language. In fact, I am a French african language speaking. I apologize for the inconvenience. I am very respectfull of you and I loved your post about Ron. Thank you.
Receive my admiration and love !
For the record, there is not and never has been a “Religious Leader Full Hat”.
If there was a religious leader in this theatre it would have been Hubbard, because he caused people to hope.
A leader is a dealer in hope.
Marty has a following now because he has been able to bring people from apathy and despair about the Church back to a state of hope.
That is a leader.
So who/what is Miscavige? A paid executive with an army of slaves and endless supply of money at his disposal and with all of those means at his disposal he is well known already for being a very unsuccessful paid executive.
Terril Park, Ralph Hilton, Pierre Ethier, Nancy Walcott, Pat and Ray Krenik, Frank Pate and Dexter Gelfland, Roy Selby and all the others delivering tech and encouragement, building bridges between people, these are religious leaders because they restore hope in people.
David Miscavige is not a religious leader, there is no religious leader full hat. He is in the realm of hallucinations now. This is where people are supposed to “find out who you really are” so you can figure out what condition he is in from there.
Spiritually stupid, yes. But mechanically, very covertly brilliant as evidenced by his assumption and rise to power, his ability to continue to fool most of the people most of the time, as well as his ability to hold onto that power. The stat of ‘how long can DM stay in power’ is indicative of a condition of power for that activity.
OTDT,
The only “power” Miscavige has is the “power” he is granted or has stolen from others.
He only seems “brilliant” which is an aspect of the 1.1 covered in the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation because he uses “ingenious methods” of controlling others.
One of them unfortunately is the tech which he uses to entrap and enslave others.
Marty’s posts cover this phenomenon plus the actual JOS known as Danger: Black Dianetics.
The point is don’t be fooled by his “brillance” like anything else about Miscavige.
It is a sham.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned or noticed but DM is clearly wearing dress shoes and slacks in this picture. Hardly riding gear..Id love to pull up next to him at a stop light on my Repsol the little poser.