Just after I blew RTC I spent 35 days on the road looking for a peaceful, faraway place to settle. I wound up by the Gulf of Mexico on the US-Mexican border. I later moved a tad north, but still in South Texas. I travel a bit, and I always love coming home. It is not just the ocean and the space. More important I think is the culture. You know what a big cattle rancher or oil man calls a lowly busboy in a taqueria down here?
He calls him “Sir.” Every man initially refers to every other man as “Sir.” Everybody starts out with respect. If one demonstrate’s he is not entitled to respect, only then does he lose it. Sometimes it doesn’t take much to accomplish that. Just be a cabron (loose translation: a prick) and see how long they keep referring to you as “Sir.” But it is easy to keep respect. All you have to do is treat others with respect. Most folk who come here to visit remark on how friendly people here are. I think it has to do with their cultural upbringing and the workability of the idea of granting beingness to others indiscriminately. Christian folk refer to it as the Golden Rule.
I read a blog post of Jeff Hawkins recently that got me thinking about all this http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/a-quick-note/.
I think he very succinctly articulated my unwritten moderation policy. Though I don’t have the ‘three week’ rule in force, the rest of it sums it up real well for me.
Further, I take into consideration the purpose of this blog while moderating: to help one another do as its title suggests, move on up a little higher.
I encourage a wide variety of viewpoints and information, particularly where they assist the process of moving on up and onward. I discourage covert and overt attempts to invalidate the idea of transcending.
Some people attempt to distract from the topic at hand. Whether it is an OSA operative or just a person with an inability to control his own negative impulses, the result is the same. I discourage it.
OSA operatives, and people with inabilities to control their own negative impulses are fond of accusing me of “censorship.” Some of them try to draw a distinction between this forum and Ex Scientologists Message Board or Why We Protest, painting the latter as real “free speech forums.”
Well, turns out ESMB and WWP have their tolerance levels – and moderation policies (whether written or not) too.
Let’s take the case of Wayne Frompke, who specialized in distraction with didactic polemics. We tolerated him for months and tried to talk reason with him so that he might get a grip on his obsessions. He continued with what amounted to something on the order of spam. When I checked him, he announced this blog was censorsed and went to WWP where “anything goes.”
Wayne lasted less than a week on WWP.
Here is what a moderator there tried to explain to him, apparently to no avail:
START OF WWP THEAD:
Re: Mark Rathbun “Disconnects” Safe. My Messages to Marty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safe View Post
That’s fine. Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant by
domination. That is, somebody depriving another of their ability to
do something if they don’t comply to their demands. So if a
moderator told me, “You can’t say this cause I don’t like what you
say”, I’d just go somewhere else to say it.
(censoring me) because he didn’t like my opinions.
Safe,
and we corresponded then. I will say a few things in response to
this thread and your posts in it:
* You keep saying that this board practices “true freedom of
speech”. We do believe in free speech. Your constitutional right to
freedom of speech and your human right to free speech mean that you
should not be stopped from speaking out. But that does not mean
that we must allow you to say whatever you want on this board. This
board is moderated. There are rules. If you break the rules, you
will be infracted and may be banned. If the content of your post is
bad enough, we will delete it. Yes, we will censor you.
* I am going to give you an infraction for importing drama from
another board.
* I read marty’s board a lot. You have made some posts there
that I really agree with and I have appreciated your input.
* Many of your posts there are too long and you post a LOT.
Your voice has been too dominant in some threads, in my view. I
often don’t read everything that you write.
* I think you advertise the non-violent communication stuff as
if you were on commission for the guy’s book sales. It pisses me
off how much you carry on about it. Don’t do that here. Or rather,
stop doing it here, because you’ve already started.
* I actually thought marty was incredibly patient with you. You
made your point about how you thought mike should have dealt with
the PI’s. Then you went on and on and on covering the same ground.
I thought you were being naive. I did not think Mike handled the
guy too badly at all – IN ALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES. But that’s just my
opinion.
* You seem to have turned very quickly into an anti-martyite.
Too quickly for my taste. I don’t trust you.
END OF WWP THREAD
I treat this blog like my home. I entertain a wide variety thoughts and viewpoints. However, when an originator demonstrates it is a one way street and he isn’t really interested in learning something, but only in enturbulating or propagandizing, I show him the door.
Since OSA has had a well-financed, steadily-worked-on campaign going for more than a year to infiltrate my home and this blog with the specific objective of enturbulating me to the point where I start axing people ala Miscavige himself, I think by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Could you please link to the WWP thread.
No, you can go find it over there.
Point well made. Imagine the tolerance level that would be extant in a board openly moderated by David Miscavige. Freedom of speech on his board would not exist at all. Period. With that in mind, one immediately sees just how patient and reasonable you have been with all those who have been regular visitors to your “home.”
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Namaste.
Good post, Marty. I appreciate your perspective on the blog rules topic very much.
“I treat this blog like my home”. Not long after visiting regularly, I envisaged a deck party, backyard BBQ, or indoor gathering in cooler weather, whenever I needed to remember “where I am” on this forum. It’s Marty’s place. Your blog, your party, your rules. The rest of us are the guests. Although I’ve been known to put back too much tequila and forget my manners in some circles…. what’s a good drunk & disorderly among friends, after all, I very much appreciate the host’s right to manage peaceful assembly on his property.
There will always be someone who can find something to criticize. But the only way to avoid getting hit with a tomato now and then is never to stand up out of the crowd. Afraid it’s too late for you on that score, my friend, you are way up out of the crowd.
Namaste.
Marty, you’ve done a great job with this blog in keeping the ship pointed in the right direction. Really great.
There will always be ones who are too negative and so they get the boot. That works for me!
ps. It was so nice to click on the blog today and not see that picture any more!
Marta, we have collected many tomatoes. Fortunately, Mosey makes a mean spaghetti and meat balls, so they don’t go to waste.
chuckle.
There is speech and there is “publication” of speech. Both forms are generaly referred to as “Free Speech” in our society and Constitution. That said; the first amendant does not imply that one persons version of “free speech” MUST be “published” on another persons blog. While a blog may be available to the public – it originated and is operated by an individual. Public access/input to an individual’s blog does NOT imply that another person should expect to have their own version of “free speech” published on any blog — other than THEIR OWN. …. Landon
Marty, you have done a great job. Especially considering the subject matter itself and the types of characters involved.
Its your blog and you have the right to steer the ship. The increased readership and contributions on the blog validate your handlings of the subject matter and the originations.
People are free to ignore the blog if they want. No one forces them to stay.
And I too am thankful that dynamic duo picture has moved down the page a bit. Its almost disturbing to see 2 guys posing like that. Hard to get inside their heads and imagine what they think of themselves. They must think they shit ice cream. And the wannabe tough guy stares. I cant imagine that unless it was done as a joke. And apparently it was not.
I can tell you this, Marty is a much more rational and fair moderator than you will find on WWP or ESMB.
And I speak from alot experience on both those boards.
I have yet to see any personal name calling or attacks by Marty on this blog. He might label someone as a “troll” but I haven’t seen him attack anyone on a personal basis with derogatory name calling. I he has, I haven’t seen it. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for other message boards. As hard as it may be to believe, I myself been on the receiving end of name calling by the moderator of ESMB.
If someone wants to express their opinion completely unrestrained, the only options are:
1. Write you’re own book
2. Put up your own blog or website
Otherwise, behave as you would if you were in that person’s house or be willing to deal with the consequences.
Good post. Keep in mind that some of the people who violate their right to post on scientology related forums are not necessarily OSA or even intentional operatives of OSA programs. Some are just damaged exs who are fighting the demons of their case and/or history of treatment in Scientology. I’ve seen way to many of them in my years on the internet to deny this fact. A good example is Jonathan Barbera. He spent years defending Scientology on the forums against critics in between being a critic and trying to join in here as an independent. He was mistreated badly in scientology. The spun him in and threw him out to crawl back to life. Personally, I don’t care for the man but I do pity him for what he’s become because of what was done to him. Never the less, his posts began to be contentious, like they are on ARS. He can be vindictive. He can easily spam but he’s no OSA. He’s a damaged human being who is looking for peace of mind. He thought he found it here but I knew that it was only going to be a short time before he was cut off from here, as he has claimed. Like Wayne, both are distractions in the net result.
So I understand the need for moderation policy on this blog. It’s important however, not to lump everyone into OSA when there are other factors.
Watching Eyes, I agree. Also I too am glad that picture is gone. It makes Mr.ARC get ‘sudden’ every time.
“I think by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher. ”
And that’s the key, isn’t it? Not losing sight of the mountain, why we’re here. Good helmsmanship, Marty.
Thanks for stating this, and thanks for keeping, as Marta puts it, the deck party and BBQ, open and lively. Frankly, I am amazed at how you do it week in and out; some of the comment threads get quite lengthy.
Marty,
Tomatoes can be handled in many ways to make them great. Totally agree with you and the way you run your blog. To tell you the truth, I didn’t read 95% of those long winded diatribes and sympathized with those having to go over all posts in their entirety.
Marty,
My wife teaches kindergarten, and showing some respect is one of the things she emphasizes. Most get it and thrive. But every few years there is one or two who just can’t manage: they’re just inherently nasty little thetans intent on enturbulating the world as much as they can. Some are worse than others.
So even kindergarten needs a moderator. There is no sane place on this planet that isn’t moderated to some degree–even a Tibetan monastery. Even my big mouth.
Not to kiss your ass, but you’ve done a remarkable job of this considering all the distractions and pressure.
As for Wayne, I stopped reading him after a couple of posts. That he no longer posts here is not unwelcome. I’m all for giving someone a voice but being stuck in loop gets old pretty quickly.
Michael
I appreciate your writing this piece. I don’t quite get how a person would consider that because you start a blog, have a purpose in mind either generally or even specifically, that means this is their ‘stump’ and they can stump along on whatever it is they wanna stump about.
I’ve blurbed out some real gibberish that made it past the filter. Other stuff I’ve begged to have it filtered after looking it over. Other stuff hasn’t made it through.
So what?
Mocking up something to say is easy as pie (thanks Hard TRs and Grade O).
Carrying a tune along is an art form. Sometimes I play some really good accompaniment (comp) and sometimes I get a solo. Sometimes I play well, sometimes not so much. I work on making my worst performance better and stretching my best to new areas.
All within the view of the conductor who, with a view for the overall piece, can either cut my part, or point out the dynamic markings or any other such conductor hat action.
Just want to add my support for your policy and this post, Marty.
I’m sure most of the time those of us who come here don’t even give a thought to what kind of angry mess this blog would be if not for your moderation of it (and Mosey’s and Mike’s). Given what seems to be leveled at you guys daily by miscavige’s minions, that would undoubtedly be the death of this forum and a huge loss for us all.
I think both you and Jeff Hawkins do a great job in this regard. I consider your standards to be high but not restrictive. That’s probably why some days yours are the only blogs I visit, and conversely, why each time I’ve been to either ESMB or WWP, I leave in a very short time, usually disgusted by something I’ve read. I find I almost never take away anything of value from them, so I rarely go.
Thank you for all I’ve learned here, and for the safe space within which to communicate. I know I’m not the only one who’s had a year of tremendous rehabilitation since deciding to “disconnect” from a suppressive organization, due in large part to this site and Jeff’s. I’ve learned more about the history of what was my church, and gotten more answers as to why things were observably so damn crazy and so wrong for so many years, than I ever knew existed. I can say without reservation that between your blog and Jeff’s, I’ve had more “case gain” than in my last 25 years as a scientologist. I didn’t just say that, either, I really looked. It’s true.
Needless to say, I respect your standards and support your right to keep them. Thanks for doing so.
lunamoth
I think its significant that the person over at WWP backs you up. Not necessarily for what you stand for but simply because its the right thing to do. I think you have his respect. I know you probably don’t give a rat’s ass whether he/she respects you or not and that’s what earns the respect. You live your truth. I for one have benefited from this immensely. I know that if you think I’m full of shit you’ll say it outright. I also know that in saying it your intention is not to break me down but rather , to the best of your ability, wake me up. You are a safe terminal, Marty.
Thank you.
Regards
Justin Neff
Justin, Thank you. And thank you for participating.
Thanks. I think Jeff sets a good standard. He is a gentleman and a scholar.
Wisdom bears repetition, from Jim L:
Carrying a tune along is an art form. Sometimes I play some really good accompaniment (comp) and sometimes I get a solo. Sometimes I play well, sometimes not so much. I work on making my worst performance better and stretching my best to new areas.
All within the view of the conductor who, with a view for the overall piece, can either cut my part, or point out the dynamic markings or any other such conductor hat action.
Thanks. But you know Wayne is capable of change too.
Chris, I need a photo of you for that post we talked about. I sent you a hushmail. Maybe you let that account lapse?
Steve “Sarge Sargio Sudden Mr. ARC” Pfauth. Pretty soon you freakin’ name is gonna be a pargraph.
Ok. Keep in mind also that if you let a pc go on and on and on and on…he/she will wind up at Sad Effect.
Actually, I think I have name-called several times. Doesn’t make it cool. But, just sayin’.
Astute distinction Landon.
Well Marty, you do an excellent job moderating and publishing this blog. To create an environment like this, discussing a topic that is as volatile as this, and keep the level of humanity high is very difficult. This is the first place on the ‘net that I have found that discusses Scientology and its ups and downs in a non-vitriolic, non-toxic manner.
I love the diversity of opinion, and the multitude of experiences people discuss. I think it is great that Anon members and people who just are done with Scientology as a subject come here and post as well. This is something that just never happens in the Church. Frankly, I find it is a sign of maturity that we have come to the point collectively as Scientologists that we can discuss Scientology and our opinions and thoughts about it with anyone, whether they be other Scientologists or detractors or the “loyal opposition.” The Grade 0 EP is “Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.” This is sort of a Third Dynamic Grade 0. It takes serious moderation skills to have a large group of people come into your house, all of whom have very different opinions, and keep the discussion from turning into an ad hominem free-for-all, or one-sided opinion straight jacket. I like the fact that if you do “err,” you err on the side of openness rather than closure.
On the subject of freedom of speech: Freedom of speech does not mean that we have the right to be published on someone else’s forum. If I submit a letter to the editor or unsolicited article to a news paper which is then rejected, it is not “censorship” or an abridgment of free speech. It amazes me that people would take the view that it is! Wayne came over to my blog when he left here. I gave him advice that he can say whatever he wants any time he wants on his OWN blog, which I recommended he start. I read the WWP thread – it was almost like a lamb to slaughter. He thought Marty was abusive? Not to rag on Wayne, but it is a great example. We have freedom of speech. It is actually better now, with the web and internet technologies, than at any other time in history. We can say what we want in any manner we want, with very few restrictions – in our own forums and in the public square. But we also have the right to ask someone who is being offensive or boorish in our home to be quiet, be respectful, or leave.
Thanks, Marty.
GH, Thanks a lot for all you contribute day in and day out.
Marty – I couldn’t agree with you more. Excellent post.
Amy
I read Marty’s board for a long time before posting on it and I noticed that I never had a bad feeling after reading it, even if I did not like or agree with certain threads or postings. There is way too much misemotion over the subject of LRH and Scientology in general but it exacerbates on most other boards. Potential Trouble Sources were never relegated to just those who do not like Scientology. It also applied to those who protest any betterment. Those who have misemotion about Scientology will still have the misemotion if you banish Scientology from their universe. They will find something else to exercise their misemotions on. I should also add that the howling monkey who howl at Marty are not unique to the issue of Scientology. They howl when somebody does something, something that is either significant or important. Other than the obvious, I am not sure what they are upset about in Marty’s case. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they cannot control him or fit him into their paradigm. Once again, we are back to the thread about LRH. He cannot no longer be controlled as he is gone but his legacy seems to frighen the hell out of some because they cannot control it.
I also want to thank you Marty for moderating as well as you do. I agree with Lunamoth…what a year of rehabilitation my husband and I have had since finding out the real scene. Suddenly things make sense. Charge blows. It wasn’t only ME feeling like something was terribly wrong. Life is SO much more fun now being disconnected from the SP Pope. It took us a good six months to stop fearing the reprisal from the Church for not doing the mandatory meetings/reg cycles/Basics/reg cycles on others/events/OT Committee meeting etc, etc. I have to thank Steve Hall for his site (the first one I landed on). I was really able to get the picture quickly. And that he links to this site allowed me to find this group of intelligent beings of like mind (well, mostly). Add in Jeff’s blog and one can get the whole story of the VE pretty well laid out. So, thank you all. Thanks for letting us into your “home” Marty and Mosey.
When I post here, I usually pretend I’m speaking on camera, for the world to review.
Did I communicate well? Was I too long-winded when perhaps a paragraph could’ve covered it? Do I regret how it came across? Do I KNOW what I’m talking about? Am I dominating with too many posts in a given topic? Am I remembering that somebody has to take the time to read the whole thing before allowing it on the blog? Etc…. You know, basic manners.
Now, the fact that I’m NOT on camera but instead, sitting at the computer in my underwear on a Sunday morning with a hot cup of coffee and a couple of cats purring by my side, it forces me to have to remember to be respectful and to stay on target per the direction of this blog, just a little bit more.
But, it CAN be done. And out of respect for the moderator(s) here, I will continue to consider myself a guest in this house.
In no way is it Marty’s or Jeff’s or Steve’s duty to allow Fromke-ish “freedom of speech” on their blogs or in their houses. Frankly, I think they’ve been, if anything, too tolerant and extremely giving of their time already.
(Although I do love it when Marty let’s a real Troll post a nutty comment once in a while to let the rest of us see first-hand how screwed-up these folks really are under DM)
The Fromke’s of the world are welcome to start their own blogs. And you watch just how fast they cut-off pro-LRH folks like Marty!
Put the Fromke’s of the world on camera for the whole world to see and I bet they shape up to basic, respectful standards real quick.
Hi Marty-
While reading your post a certain HCOPL immediately came to mind titled “Manners” (PR Series 9).
It begins with “The original procedure developed by man to oil the machinery of human relationships was “Good Manners”.
This PL then basically concludes by stating “So one appears to behold a sloppy age of manners. This is no excuse to have bad manners. One can have excellent manners just by observing:
a. Importance of people
b. Two-way comm cycle
c. Local rituals observed as proper conduct” (end quote)
Just like driving a car down the road, freedom comes from having those lines painted on the pavement. In this example those rules might even keep you alive.
With that said allow me to extend my gratitude for providing this venue where I have indeed moved on up a little higher.
Respectfully yours,
Tom Gallagher
Well I think you’ve been doing a very admirable job. I certainly would not have the patience that you’ve demonstrated toward others, in many, many examples. And what is nice is you’ve made your “home” here a comfortable, safe place for many others to visit, share and learn. It is highly appreciated!
SK
Marty, just saw this post. Good on you for stating your own ground rules. Too many people do not differentiate between a blog and a forum. They get all upset because a blog pushes a certain opinion or viewpoint. Well, guess what, that’s what blogs are. An individual’s viewpoint. And people get upset because there is “censorship” of comments. Well, in the first place, it’s the blog owner’s option whether to accept comments at all. Secondly, opening up for comments does not mean that anything goes. I accept a pretty wide spectrum of opinion, as I know you do. I try not to cut someone off just because I disagree with what they are saying. I’m willing to listen to any reasoned argument. But if someone comes on with the sole purpose of pushing someone’s buttons, picking a fight, pushing some agenda, being abusive, or just generally being an arrogant a**hole, I am under no obligation to provide a forum for them. What gets me is people who think they have a right to come on my forum and be abusive to me personally. Really?
I recall being at the Int Base, on the phone with some “executive” who was just verbally abusing me non-stop. I realized I was perpetuating the abuse just by standing there with the phone to my ear. So I just hung up on her. Why should I tolerate it? Why should I enable it?
If someone feels that their viewpoint is not being adequately heard, then they should start their own blog. It’s easy to do, and it costs nothing. If they come on someone else’s blog to speak, they should act, as several people have pointed out, as if they are entering their home. You wouldn’t enter someone’s home and start being abusive or pushing their buttons or picking a fight – not if you expected to be invited back.
Some people might feel that some subjects are not getting adequate inspection or discussion on your blog. Well, the solution is not to come on here, interrupt a thread in progress, and try to steer the discussion into some direction where you can forward your agenda. The solution is to take it up on your own blog. That’s what I do.
All the best.
Simple and sane policy. A necessary and welcomed policy (already existing and now made known). Agree with you on Jeff being a gentelman and a scholar – art of communication in application.
After the various comments I thought I had nothing left to say – then I realized my own “policy” for leaving comments:
I want them to ADD to a discussion. I don’t just want to “say something” (makes for a boring social talk with no purpose). I “check” the worth of my comments by checking whether someone picked up on it and has more to add in the direction of the main post. If it does I consider I have contributed.
I have read many comments I thought were really smart and added to the discussion. I’ve learned a lot from them and I kind of look out for those smart people making them. Often I would like to just leave an “agree” comment but then do not, possibly wrong, in an effort not to “spam” the blog. Marty, if you want to put an “Agree” or “Like” button next to the comments, others and I could leave these “acks” for the commenter without overloading the moderators (not a must – the blog did well without them too) .
Thanks Marty for inviting us to your home. I come here daily. I feel I’m among friends who talk about things that I am intensly interested in. In leaving I’d like to say (like kids do when leaving a party at a friend’s home): “Thanks for having me”.
When I fist started to read and comment here, I really did assume my days would be numbered. I admit I brought a suitcase full of bpc and surpressed communication with me. I was determined to say whatever I wanted and just wait to be banned. A couple of my posts even ended with some snarky little comment about how I knew Marty would never publish it. But none of that happened. Throughout the spring and into early summer I blew so much charge interacting with others here, gathering information that rang so true it couldn’t help but unravel those knots in the string that had crashed my kite big time, a long time ago.
Obviously I don’t know a lot of what has gone on behind the scenes, but just the sheer amount of time that must be put into running this blog and the risks that have been taken to get the truth out to others is something I admire a great deal.
Marty, you have earned my respect… and my gratitude for all you do. I came here with somepreconceived notions and I was relieved to be proven wrong.
Thank-you.
Marty,
I am posting here for the first time. I am afraid I will be found, but it’s time to speak up.
I saw you a number of times when you were the IG at the time. I always had the deepest respect for you, even if I was a little afraid of you. You were bigger than life. You might remember me if I told you who I am, but that’s for another time when I’m no longer in fear of being found out.
For now I want to say that I read your blog more than daily and I’m actually sad when I don’t see a new post each time I log in. Your blog keeps me going.
I left the Sea Org (won’t say when as that might be a clue to my identity) not long ago. I went through everything I’ve read about here and on Jeff and Steve’s blogs.
My first shock was just finding out you were no longer in the S.O. It hit me like 2 tons of bricks. It was only then that I realized I hadn’t seen you or heard your name in a long time. Very cleverly concealed from staff. I also had no idea that ED Int (Guillame) was no longer ED Int. The Truth Rundown was shocking to me….it was such a contradiction to what I thought I knew. The new problem was how to tell what was the truth.
The point that convinced me that what you and Mike and others are describing is true, is that, although I had no idea what was occuring at Int,
I had my own experiences on a small scale that matched. The thread of abuse ran all the way down the line. I never had any physical abuse to speak of (maybe a senior shoved me here and there but that was all), but clearly verbally abusive behavior was not only tolerated but was the norm, so it had to come with approval from the top.
I will only vaguely describe the reasons I left as being too specific would be a dead give-a-way. I left because I could no longer associate myself with a group that did things I was ashamed of. The way public were treated, the vulture atmosphere in our org when a public walked in. The dog-eat-dog realtionship between staff were all too much for me.
I remember one day, I was in the HGC and the Tech Sec was doing a “face rip” on an auditor (don’t recall why exactly). The admin space is away from public view, but when it gets that loud, they can hear it, so someone pointed this out and it was done more quietly. I recall having the thought that our public are there to get Scientology applied and this “behind the scenes stuff” had to be hidden from them and not on their lines. Isn’t that the penultimate (love the word) of hypocrisy?? We teach them ARC and communication is the universal solvent….but we do not apply it and we know it would upset them if they knew so we have to hide it? But I had been on staff for many years by then and had only had this thought now? The posts on thought stopping come to mind. Amazing.
I began writing KR’s on the more outlandish things I ran into. Outright criminal acts (and I mean illegal acts, not only those in the ethics book) being commited against the public. Things like postulate check era stuff on a grand scale (public made to write a check for $ 25,000 for books, it was known the check was not good, the public was assured it would not be invoiced until it was good, yet it was invoiced and banked immediately. I know as I had direct information regarding this.) One of the worst was when a public was sent to ethics on a KR handling on some relatively minor stuff (would normally do doubt on up at the worst for his “false report in a worksheet” like reporting an F/N when he wasn’t sure it really was), was threatened in a very 1.1 manner by the MAA and at least one other div head that they “might be declared” and “we’d really hate to see that happen to you”) 1.1) if they didn’t donate for books. They were even shown SP Declares on goldenrod just to really bring the point home. He was badgered like this for many hours. The person came to me for help and I did help him.
What really got to me was I wrote a KR one day on an MAA (for a gross financial irregularity with a public that I had clear evidence of) and I received a copy of my KR back with a handwritten note from his senior basically warning me about attacking an MAA. No one denied or tried to refute what I had written, as they couldn’t because it was true. Instead I got a mafia-like warning that it could go badly for me if I continued to attack MAA’s.
For me that was the last straw (or one of the many that piled up). Who could I trust anymore? Scared the hell out of me. If you can’t go to HCO for ethics and justice, what was left?
Before this I had blown for about 2 days and the “blow drill” was done to get me back to route out properly. I was told it would take about a week.
I “routed out properly” which took me about 19 months. I will spare you the details as this has been covered many times. The usual sec checking and MEST work, etc. As Jeff has described it, I also felt VERY uptone just doing mest work and not being hounded or harassed by the constant pressure to get the stats up, make an impossible quota, etc.
One day I will tell my whole story but at the moment I am already concerned that OSA will see this post, figure out who I am, and my days of being “under the radar” will have to end.
I’m not even sure why that concerns me except that I have finally gotten back on my feet, I have a decent life going, making a decent income doing what I really love (I won’t even reveal that as it would be another clue), and I don’t want to see that disturbed or destroyed. I guess I’m not even sure what I think they could do, but of course I signed all the usual stuff when I left and although maybe it’s not legally binding, it concerns me just the same.
I guess I just finally decided to dip my toe in the water by writing this post.
I admire you and Mike very much. I had no idea of the things you’ve described. But I believe it is true. Much like Paul Haggis, when I see Tommy lying about stuff that I personally know is a lie, I also wonder “What else is he lying about?”. Actually, I’m not wondering anymore. I have a pretty good idea. Everything.
I don’t really have anything new and exciting to add to the viewpoints expressed on your blog. I guess I just figured it was time to say that I agree with what you are doing. This nightmare we’ve all had to go through one way or another needs to stop.
I’ve had lots of audting yet still have many of the same problems I’ve always had (I have also had gains, mind you). I thought…NCG? SP? PTS? I finally felt PTS to the org I was in….but thought-stopping prevented me from really seeing that at the time.
I now have a normal life again. I’m ecstatic and even though I work 7 days a week 12-18 hours a day (I’m freelance so can work as much as I like), it’s not the feeling of imprisonment I had in the S.O. When I want to take a break, I take one, but I work harder than anyone could ever get me to using force and threats and imposing unreal and unreachable targets with an “or else” at the end.
Anyway, enough of my rambling. You’ve heard it all before…but now I’ve said it, even if as a timid person with a pseudonym for a name (John Gault is a character in Ayn Rand’s classic novel “The Fountainhead”).
Thanks for being there doing this job.
I hope to have the courage to see you one day.
johngault0625
I feel like I am looking in a mirror!
I can see the headline now from DM: “Marty Rathbun has people walking around in UNDERWEAR in his house!” Better underwear than straightjackets, eh? 🙂
Marty, Between you and Jim Logan, my vocabulary has grown- “didactic polemics”. What a concept and spot-on description.
Re Wayne, I think one thing he failed to do was come to present time on the movement. He fought the good fight long before many had even dared to look, and from what I understand, took a pretty good beating. I think he is still trying to win that fight (GPM’s) with his unsuccessful strategies. And probably has some degree of feeling unacknowledged for taking the heat so early on. With no patronization, Wayne, thanks for what you did earlier- it took a lot of courage and integrity. It is a new battle though and this one is going in the right direction. The groundswell is getting bigger. I had figured dm would be taken down by a tsunami from this groundswell, but it may be one hell of an undertow that pulls him off his self-appointed throne.
And Marty, your blog and moderation has helped many that I know personally. So the proof is in the pudding- thanks much.
Marty,
Many thanks to you and Mosey for creating and maintaining this blog and to Mike and the other moderators. You all know how much it has meant to me.
I don’t mistake your post above for suggesting that commenters must enter zone kumbaya to agree with each other. However, Marta, Idle Org and TEG have expressed (above) the basic rules of participation, which a few folks have violated: good manners and some self-awareness.
My manners, on the other hand, have never lapsed. [Insert knee-slapping emoticon here.]
Just Me
You’re one Southern gentleman it’s easy to respect, Marty. Your blog has been so mind -expanding and I’ve blown so much charge, I’m glad you’ve stayed true to your vision. So Good on You! for policing it!
Marty,
Thanks for letting the neighbor kids in to play. Sometimes things get rowdy and a little control is a good thing.
david
Thanks John. If there are not familial or business connections to be severed upon being found out, I’d go ahead and get found out as soon as practicable. It’ll soothe your soul.
You earned mine too.
A pleasure Samuel; you are always welcome.
Same here Sinar. He just went on and on and on. And on. And on. AND ON.
Thanks for giving him a chance Marty. I think the way you handled it was totally appropriate.
I think it’s funny that we say, “over at WWP” and mock up a different space just as though it were a place in the physical universe. Sort of shows our capabilities as beings to create places.
I’m in a robe and slippers. Let’s have a good old-fashioned Pajama Party!
If I may, I’d like to add a little something to a couple of comments you made in your post today, Marty. Since I was born and raised in the deep South, I feel I know quite a bit about the “culture”. These are the comments I’m referring to:
“I think it has to do with their cultural upbringing .. … Christian folk refer to it as the Golden Rule.”
In the South, our friendliness, hospitality and “respect’ for others has EVERYTHING to do with our “Christian” upbringing OR the Christian upbringing of our ancestors. Nowadays, not everyone in the South goes to church or even claims to be a Christian but the lessons learned in Sunday school for all those years are deeply ingrained in our culture. It plays a big part in the way most people in the South raise their children today.
JohnGault you are totally in my heart, having had a child in the S.O. for years and having seen a bit of what went on from the public side. I applaud you for your sanity. I hope someday we will meet. I will give you a big hug for all the S.O.’s parents who want them out.
My spouse want to hear time, place, form and event on the MAA’s overts, having been run through the ethics/donations meat grinder and the “disconnect or die eternally” torture chamber, so is looking forward to hearing your story. (When you can–we’ve been in the same boat of not being able to speak out publicly.)
One thing more about censorship: sometimes I blow off steam too, and over on ESMB you get ripped pretty fast for that unless it’s against certain subjects. But many people go through those times when they’re coming out of “eternal damnation” into the realization that life is NOW!
But the truth is, I just don’t have time to read every post everywhere, and the repetitive negative grind ones are a complete waste of time. I appreciate not having to wade through them.
Using the “barbecue” analogy again, how would you like to be caught in a corner at a party with Mr. “nyah-nyah-nyah” who goes on in a bitter circuit round and round for hours no matter what you say. You would hope the host leaves him off the guest list next time. LOL
John Gault, it’s always a pleasure to hear about a person refusing to support wrongdoing. Your decision to leave the SO in the circumstances was a wise one. Congratulations on making a life for yourself. OSA is fairly busy at present. 🙂 So, don’t be too worried.
Marty:
I know this is off-topic but I have to respond to something you posted which is funny and a lesson to be learned.
You posted: “You know what a big cattle rancher or oil man calls a lowly busboy in a taqueria down here? He calls him “Sir.” Every man initially refers to every other man as “Sir.” Everybody starts out with respect.”
Growing up in the Midwest and moving to the South as a child, addressing adults as “Sir” and “Maam” was a like learning a foreign language. Fast forward 3 decades later to California where I routinely use the terms to address people, I was in traffic court last week where I got royally reamed by a lady judge who blasted me for calling her “maam” because to her, it inferred “old age”. She demanded I called her “your honor”. I innocently responded with “Yes, maam.” She was not happy. Funny how language changes over the years.
You’ve done a fine job with this blog Marty. Don’t think I’ve seen a comment I thought shouldn’t have been let through. And man, Texas sounds like a great place!
Garry, I know – you notice I didn’t include “Maam”. You better be damn sure that woman is older than you if you want to use that term.
Marty,
First and foremost; thank you for moving Tom Cruise & David Miscavige’s picture down the home page. I was really getting sick of seeing it!
Also, Thank you for providing a safe forum for the truth seekers to communicate safely. Your tempered moderation is most appreciated and admired.
Lastly (but most importantly), Thank Mosey for being so supportive and patient while you spend so much time and energy trying to expose the crimes of David Miscavige.
You guys rock!
Regards,
AB
Hi, Marty,
I agree with your comments on moderation 100% You are doing a fantastic job, and as long as you want to keep it up we will appreciate it. If in the future you decide not to keep it up any longer, we’ll understand.
I like Wayne, but he did carry on, didn’t he? Kind of like the people you have met who talk and talk and will not stop. Sometimes that is backed by an obsessiveness. It is inconsiderate to come to your home (your blog) and post an unnecessarily long essay.
Don’t bother posting this. But just a point of good manners. If you are
going to reference something on the internet, it is your responsibility to
post the links rather than make your readers go off and find it. It’s just
poor manners if not just plain old dumbness on your part for not linking to the source and then being rude and telling me to find it myself.
Losing that arrogant RTC valance that you use when dealing with people
that you don’t like would also be a nice thing.
Patty
Get inside thier heads Magana. Mine hammer is naught.
I’m barefoot, tank top and PJ bottoms, with a cup of tea. Party’s on!
Welcome John,
I lok forward to hearing more. As for being “found out”, well, unless you have potential “disconnection” issues, don’t worry about it. The first step to “case gain” is honesty, and that includes yourself. Hell, I got SP Declared for DOING Scientology “outside” the auspices of the current regime. In pers[ective, its a badge of honor. From their side it was a repudiation, for me it was an emancipation proclamation. Take care.
John,
Thanks for having the courage to tell us a bit about yourself. Looking forwarding to hearing more! OSA isn’t really all that powerful in destroying your life or job (unless you have Scientology connections there.) Their attempts to disrupt our lives have been very futile, and almost always wind up in a huge foot bullet for them, including legal trouble. And one more thing, we’ve got your back. When and if you do step out into the light, if you face any trouble you let us know if you need help and I guarantee you have friends who will be there for you. Good luck to you. 🙂
Dear John,
Thank you so much for telling your story. I am looking forward to the day when you can share more details. I love your “handle” (John Galt) as Ayn Rand was my favorite author and the only philosopher that made any sense when I was attempting to read philosophy as a teenager. The German philosphers such as Kant and Kierkegaard and Nitsche were way too confusing. I also loved Henry David Thoreau. Iam glad that you just said “No” to the out-ethics that you saw. I am one of those public who experienced the postulate checks being deposited and banked immediately, after admonishing the registrar at least 10 – 15 times not to do that. (I guess I knew it was going to happen.) I found out a day or two later and tried to stop the checks, one for $25,000 and one for $40,000) and the Dir of Registration acted like it was no big deal, when I tried to stop the checks, and somehow handle the situation. I was very embarrassed because my banker would never understand me writing “hot checks” of that size. I was at Flag at the time, and had just finished paying for a four intensive package of NOTS. It is really nice to hear that a Sea Org member would be concerned for a public and try to do something about the out-ethics. I went home to handle the ARC Break I knew my banker would have, and to arrange for Acccomos money, and never did go back and get my auditing. Recently, I got the unused portion of this money back in a repayment from Flag, thanks to help from terminals on this blog and the support I felt that I had received.
I completely understand your reluctance about “coming out’ as there is a lot of uncertainty about what could occur, and there have been so many horror stories of the OSA “dirty tricks” that many have received. It is truly amazing that a “Church” would instill such fear in its members! And the fear is for good reason, according to all the stories, some of which I have experienced myself.
I am so glad that you are doing well and have created a good life for yourself. Your courage is commendable. I had realized many years ago that I was PTS due to being connected to some of the organizations, and it is only recently that the aberrations that seemed to be the most persistent are disappearing with ease, making it more apparent that there really was PTSness there. You are probably experiencing that as well. It certainly is a process of “moving on up a little higher”.
Thanks again for telling your story, and looking forward to more of your posts.
ML,
Lady Minn
Thanks for this post. It is this blog and Jeff’s and Steve’s that gained my trust when I was still high on the KA fumes.
I had dabled with some of the other ones occasionally years before and they were just full of natter and victim and anti LRH that they gave no credibility to me.
And because I got my head out of the sand due to your blog’s and the St. Pete Times etc, these have helped me become De- PTSed and able to see the real suppression of the C of S. (We know who that is).
Your moderation on the comment boards is more than fair, I would probably have a lot less patience with people like OT VIII and Snow White, etc. Keep up the good work.
Marty,
I’m pretty certain my comments are not always ‘politically correct’ and I’m sure that once in a while I overreact or fail to contain a knee jerk reaction or two.
However, my intentions are always good and for the most part you allow me to go uncensored. I appreciate this granting of beingness and extension of trust as I deeply respect each and every person’s opinion here and enjoy contributing to the ‘onwards and upwards’ direction.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for creating this home. A home that is safe, comfortable, hospitable and big enough for our entire ‘family’.
Italian marble? We don’t need no stinkin’ Italian marble! 😀
John Gault,
Conversing with the anti-Christ himself is not an activity engaged upon by someone with a lack of courage.
You’ve already come through the hardest part. Each step is a new confront. You’ll get there.
If it helps my personal experience is that it’s never as bad as you think it’s going to be and the idea of what can be ‘done to you’ is never borne out in actuality. What’s the worst that could happen?
Also I personally haven’t ‘heard it all before’. I never tire of hearing how each individual was able to recognize, confront and ultimately overcome the suppression of the ‘church’.
Welcome. Looking forward to meeting you officially.
JohnGaulto, thanks for starting to communicate. You mention a particular thing that might be relevant for my own situation but which I don’t want to mention here. Marty can vouch for me being genuine. I would like to ask a few questions (specifics) to verify what I only suspect – please write to me when you feel ready on samuelsamuel94@hushmail.com
Garry, I know what you’re talking about! I’ve lived in California for the past several years and I’ve “offended” so many people in that very way by saying Yes Ma’am, or No Sir. I’ve tried to explain a few times that it is a sign of respect to be addressed this way. Most people have understood but some have still said it made them feel old. ???
In the South, we’re also taught to address any ladies or gentlemen older than us as “Ms. Jane” or “Mr. John” if we know them well enough to be past using last names. For instance, like our neighbors. I’m 49 and I still do this. So far, everyone seems to like this. 😉
Grasshopper,
You rock!
🙂
Similar thing that happened to me in the military. I was mid Comm Course and have learned to ack with “OK” :).
The whole crew was at muster. The captain addressed me because I was late and told me I had to be always on time. I ack’d him with “OK”. He immediately raised the voice and shouted at me that I had to always answer with “Yes, Sir!”. I promptly responded … well, with “OK!”. Roaring laughter from everybody – including the captain (and that was the end of it – must have been a very “appropriate” and good ack 🙂
I love music analogies. And here from a man who can “play the piano”.
Sam,
Thank you for all you have done and are continuing to do. Semper Fi, of the non-violent variety of course.
Marty
And the bass.
Mjolnir. I think you mistake me for something to do with Norse Mythology. Its been done before. Loki is a nickname for Avalokitesvara, a diety in the eastern tradition having to do with compassion. Just wanted to clear that up.
Samuel, that’s a GREAT story. Really LOL.
John. Welcome! Looking forward to hearing more. Marty’s advice is sage.
I guess it might not only be mis-identified by me. How do the guests distinguish between Loki then or Avalokitesvara ?
Marty: I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but Patty is right about this one particular point of what we call “netiquette” that are the expected manners of the online culture. It is generally considered rude to omit the link to something one posts from another web site.
Michael A. Hobson
Wow, that was a real firestorm on the Nov. 5th post.
On thing I think needs to be said here is something that Marty said at the beginning and end of this post.
The thing that we have to recognize and the thing that Marty is alluding to in his post is that this is HIS blog and he has done nothing do deserve disrespect.
His post is analogous to his steering a ship against a head sea – that is, sailing directly into the waves coming against his ship. Anyone who knows about sailing can tell you that in order to make the fastest progress from point A to point B is to quarter the waves as appropriate on the Port or Starboard Bow of the ship – never to take them head on.
In this way, the ship deflects the major impact of the wave without knocking it too far off course while still allowing the most forward progress over the top of the wave.
It would be a disastrous mistake to take on a head sea dead on. The ship would inevitably capsize, become damaged or even be swamped entirely in following a course such as this.
So unless we want to visit Ol’ Davey Jones’ locker, I would suggest that we take heed to the words of wisdom proffered above by the “Captain” of this ship. I would sum them up as being: “I won’t allow an attempted mutiny to knock us off course or prevent us from reaching our destination”.
Voice your concerns, sure. Even occasional application of “Levels of Ethics Actions” per HCO PL 29 April 1965 “Ethics ,Review” would seem to call for what some mis-perceive as ad hominem attacks – as in points 5&6 of the above policy letter:
5.”Talking to somebody about another derogatorily.”
6.”Talking to the person derogatorily.”
If however, after looking at your application of your own Code of Honor you cannot conscience following such a course , by all means sail your own way. It will get you somewhere, albeit not on this ship.
Scott
@Marty: I agree with Watching Eyes. I think you are doing just fine. Actually, I’m surprised more of my comments haven’t been blocked for being too paranoid or unfair to someone.
Michael A. Hobson
Sam, You should know that you are our ‘sudden Sam’ and we all Love and respect you and your opinions. Just look at the replies to your comments.
I always look for your comments and I’m sure others do too. Love!
I really meant that about Jim. He can “play the piano” and the drums! And yes I know because the two of us had to live that often times challenging marriage between bass and drums.
Marty…You da MAN!! Mike…You also daMAN!!
I say this even after one of you edited my comment and clip of Al Pacino in the movie CRUISIN in conjunction with that picture from your last blog post. That clip was hella funny and I still say you guys are the men even after that unjust censorship… 🙂
It’s just a fact of life if you communicate and are brave or silly enough depending on the circumstances to stand up and make yourself known, you’ll run into all kinds. A lot of the feeble minded apparently have as their highest motivation only attacking others, overtly or covertly as they cannot create anything of their own except blindly follow reactions. I’m too old now to be bothered with having to respond and have to be right in areas passionate to me. I love my tech and view LRH as my best friend. I know where I’m going and choose this site while it presently operates as it does – to grant beingness but remain above 2 on the tone scale. I consider the greater majority of people who post here as friends, floatsam and other smelly things come and go with the tide. Your filter suits me Marty, please keep is so.
Mike Ok’d it. I put the kabosh on it.
“just a point of good manners” then call him rude, dumb and arrogant?
A simple search on WWP would’ve provided you the thread.
Marty, doing a great job…
johngault0625, I’m happy for you. I hope you decide to tell the whole story one day.
I got my Tinkerbell PJs with my ‘special’ fluffy red slippers 😉
Armed with a mug of hot chocolate with whipped cream and ready to go!
Hey johngault!
Good job on staying at cause and obtaining your freedom!
Being “found out” is the best thing my wife and I have ever done in Scientology. Even with the loss of business and familial connections.
Remember, the universe abhors a vacuum. Other terminals quickly fill it.
Scott
Love it! 🙂
Aww. Hugs Sarge. And more LRH stories 😉
Patty,
Your it. It for my opportunity to go over one of the earliest uses of ‘hidden standard’ in Scn lectures. It’s that one that isn’t expressed anywhere but nonetheless is ‘supposed’. It’s a mode of behavior, a way of acting, a list of ‘now I’m supposed to’ be or act a certain way without that way being either expressed anywhere and with that way being assumed to be the standard.
Bollocks to the lot. And bollocks to this netiquette point. Move a finger girl. Push a key. Disagree with gravity. Place an intention and locate your hand in time and space.
So you have to make some keystrokes and put forth some effort to look something up. So?
I look up words in dictionaries when I come across them. I don’t casticize the writer for having used them. Well, sometimes I do, but I STILL look them up.
Picayune. Pusilanimus. There’s a couple.
Nail. Head.
Of course someone will complain no matter what you write.
You are doing an excellent job, my friend.
Patty,
Psssst, I even speeled pusilanimus wrong for you 🙂
I dont know that they have to. It only matters what people say in their posts. This isnt a fantasy game. Although the Loki in Norse Mythology is someone I can relate to as well. Maybee I should just post under my real name.
My striped ‘loungewear’, a hoodie (this IS Canada in November) a pack a smokes and coffeeeeeeeeeee.
Otherwise, I like a to wear jeans inside out and backwards, my Nanna’s Sunday hat with the feather and skates (again, it IS Canada).
Very nice metaqual.
J
ooh rah.
And will again Steve 🙂
Sarge,
I looked for Sam’s too. And yours, every time. ‘Sudden’ wouldn’t be without you.
@Seth: well, yeah. 😦
Michael A. Hobson
Thanks Geir.
BTW & OT;
It would be appreciated if you updated the link to my blog:
http://isene.wordpress.com
And my personal web page:
http://isene.com
Thanks.
Giving a link to each time you reference something is more of a WWP thing than a Internet thing.
It comes out of WWP and it’s “dox or STFU” attitude. Just because WWP has an unwritten policy of “dox or STFU” doesn’t mean Marty has to following along in with that WWP “rule”.
Apparently, he exported his upset to WWP and was given an infraction for doing so. Why would Marty want to provide a link to the exported drama?
In addition to that, I see no reason for Marty to provide links in his blog to message boards that spend a lot of time putting him down.
Also, using words like “dumbness” and “arrogant” is not good manners on your part.
Again, it’s Marty’s blog and he can run it the way he wants.
We are guests in his “cyber house”.
This blog has been/is a great experience for me.
Firstly, I’ve had the good fortune to have enough personal comm with Marty to know completely that he is trustworthy and doing his best to make this right for scientologists/in out and never been.
Secondly, I’ve had the opportunity to watch my own mind as I start to lash out at someone and then … cancel my response.
Or as I write some endlessly boring long speech and thank goodness – delete that one too.
Thirdly, and most wonderful for me — I’ve made new friends as a result of this blog – people I would NEVER have met were it not for this blog.
And fourthly (is that a word, Jim?) I’ve found some dear missing friends and reconnected.
I look forward to fifthly 🙂 — more of my old friends coming out who have been locked away from all of us because their mind has been stolen by dm and his ilk. But not forever.
NOTHING stays the same forever.
Which brings me to sixthly — Marty is constantly moving up … and encourages others to do so.
Love,
WH
Marty,
The fact that you opened this blog in the first place and invited us to communicate openly here, says a lot of nice stuff about you. Not only did you give a home to a lot of people that may not have had a place to go but you’ve made it safe to be here…to be here and communicate. A whole lot of good things have happened to a whole lot of peoples lives because of you. You sir, are one fine gentleman…and all around nice guy.
I know I’ve said it before and I’m sure this won’t be the last time but — thank you for doing this. And thank YOU for being here and communicating.
Kathy, you are one fine woman and all around big ole Thetan.
Done.
Sam,
You are dear in my heart (and I am sure the hearts of many others here)….I have looked at trees as a special blessing ever since I read your story. Yes, Marty’s blog is the “home” for people that LRH talked about in “The Magic of Good Management PL.” It really fills a need ever since the Orgs went “Idle”.
Your forum, your rules. You are doing a fine job, and I hope that by my saying so you will feel just a little tiny bit more validated.
Me too!
I was kinda getting sicka lookin’ at the dykes on bikes.
Anyway Marty I think you are doing a great job of moderating this blog.
So no complaints from this peanut gallery 🙂
🙂 🙂
Chris,
So good to read a post from you on this board.
Hi John,
Finishing up Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand presently. Absolutely love the book!! Your write up is wonderful. I was nervous when I first wrote also. Understandable. But all has been fine. I am still writing incognito because of the fear of enforced disconnection from the ones I love.
You are helping to get the truth out which is so helpful and commendable. Please feel free to “ramble on” some more. Congrats on your new life.
“Keep your eye on the mountain” Real Scienology is alive and well. I’m listening to the Congresses presently-definite case gain to be had there!
johngault0625,
Welcome!! If you have potential disconnection issues with your coming out please take a close look and see if some of it is just smoke and mirrors. I was in a similar position until recently and found there was no leverage over me and came out a few days ago. When the time is right your coming out will make your space cleaner and your foundation stronger. i.e. you’ll be able to hold your position in space much better. At least that is some of what happened with me.
My best to you.
david
Hi;
Granting people Beingness without any initial demand for reasons to grant them Beingness is, I think, how Beings really are. I think doing so is a characteristic of the theta universe.
Getting constantly hit will drive one downtone to where granting Beingness to others becomes some kind of ‘reward’ for them. They have to earn it somehow.
I’ve learned that by deliberately granting of Beingness to others as best you can without ‘reasons’ to do so is a quick way to get back on your feet.
I have a personal experience along this line that really shifted how I view total strangers.
I have personal best friends now that I’ve known for over 40+ years , which is stunning. Who’d ever think they’d ever have friends for 40 years when you first have a friendship blossom? Their children are older than I was when I first met them!
Anyway, I was curious about when I first saw one of them. I ‘traced down’ my experience to when I first knew him, got pretty close, I’d known his name before I knew him, and looked even earlier, and recalled knowing he was this skinny guy from X-town, but had never met him yet. I looked even earlier, trying to find that first time. I recalled looking at him once, from 30 or so feet away, just as a glance, and more or less just recognized he existed. I looked even further, and I recalled a very early time I ‘saw’ him. I paid no attention to him at the time, I didn’t know anything about him, he was a true stranger.
As I was thinking about this, I had the sudden dawning, an epiphany really, that at that time he really was a complete stranger to me! And here he was now, my best friend for over 40 years! Who wuddah thunk?
I reflected on that for a while, a real ‘wow’ type of realization. Then another one hit me. Everyone I know was at first, a complete stranger! All those that I have loved dearly for generations, those who were friends who moved away or I moved away from, were all strangers when we first met!
That opened me up quite a bit. No matter how much you love someone now, no matter how long you’ve known them, they started out as a complete, total stranger, an unknown. When you first met this person you never knew he was going to be a really buddy for decades. Then the wopper, a true awakening hit, really hit, and changed entirely how I view people
You don’t know if the next person you see on the street, or cross paths with in a store, may one day turn out to be your best friend for the next several years or decades. You just don’t know, do you. So, I decided from that moment on to treat all stranges as if they were my very best friends, because maybe some day they would be. It seemed to me to be the natural thing to do! It was as simple as shifting gears on a bike!
And I’m glad to say I’ve enjoyed the benefits from doing so. Other attitudes tend to drop away, and even when I ‘meet’ a stranger, I’m actually feeling excited to have met them. They are all a joy. Sometimes I will just watch someone walk down the street, and really look and see all the life that is there! My new best friend!
I met two more last night, and I know I can call them up and say ‘hi’ and they’d be happy that I did.
Joy spreads.
JohnGault:
What a wonderful first blog. Great story. It resonated so much with me.
Marty is so right.
I was exhilarated when I came out.
It does soothe the soul.
Marty and Mike blazed the trail for people like me to step out.
The FREEDOM of being, doing, acting and especially SAYING whatever you want WHENEVER you want and connecting with WHOEVER you want.
is quite something after the oppression within.
I had no idea how CONFINED, RESTRAINED, IMPRISONED I was, til I stepped out of all of that.
I am now Sovereign to my own 1st dynamic.
########
A little anecdote to demonstrate the point About a year ago, I printed off something from the Internet for a specific purpose.
This particular subject is all over the web, available not just on Wikileaks but all over the web in abundance since the early 1980s.
Alexander Jentzsch, my son, read it and being the good Sea Org Member that he was, wrote a Knowledge Report on me for having that print out.
The MAA at AOLA Julian Schwartz calls me to tell me that I am booted off services til he can come to my home and search and examine my computers and their files from head to toe.
If ever I lose my cool it is inward in ” Church “Cycles. They are outrageous, they are offensive, they are dominating, they reek of DM’s style of Thuggery in an effort to overwhelm.
I rarely lose my cool outside of DM’s cult…..
I asked Julian first, what reference gave him the authority, rank and power to give him JURISDICTION
to come to my home to physically search my computers.
I found the dominating demand to invade my home and my computers
offensive.
Julian responded some vague HCO investigations P/L.
I did lose my cool and told Julian to “@#***@@@##”
I was incensed. I was particularly enraged at just having given AOLA a sizable check $$$$$.
I will give credit to Captain Cal Cole. Some weeks later He arranged a meeting with Julian and him and myself where I could tell Julian what I thought of him.
It was not a cordial meeting, but Julian sat through it and I did give him a hug at the end for his endurance. ☻☻☻☻☻
But the Bells were ringing in my head. The “Church” feels it has the RIGHT to come in to your own home, as if you have committed a crime, and with NO SEARCH WARRANT ~~ The “Church” feels and demands the RIGHT to search your computers. I later found out that this has been done frequently to many who are suspected of Internet searches.
Since when ?
Aren’t we all. Hopefully.
Jim,
I can’t carry a tune for shit. But I sure love to sing.
Make a joyful noise unto the world, brother.
No one said it had to sound good, just joyful. ‘
Keep on drummin’
Michael
Your writings gave me new perspectives and opened new horizons.
Your wisdom led me back to roots of Scn — Tao TeChing.
What an eye opening Hanbook for OTs.
Thank you Marty!
Wow.
You know, John, with regards to those persistent problems you mentioned, there is very little that a good auditor’s code and CS 53/GF40XX will not handle. There is also ruds of long duration, one of which is “Have you had a problem for a very long time?” One resolves a problem by looking at it 360º – this is why naysayers will have their problem with LRH/Scn forever. They do not look at from 360º or pan-determinedly. Sounds like you are already well on your way to moving up the scale. Congratulations!
“The MAA at AOLA Julian Schwartz calls me to tell me that I am booted off services til he can come to my home and search and examine my computers and their files from head to toe.”
Karen, that’s good to know: The Co$ has now suspended ALL its members’ civil rights. All members of the Co$ — staff and public alike — are now under martial law.
I can hear the knock on the front door in the middle of the night. I can see the family huddled in their jammies in the kitchen while the SS (ethics staff) plow through the family’s emails, Internet history, computer caches and cookies, personal correspondence, tax records, bank records, bookshelves (for verboten reading material), Mom’s and Dad’s bedside tables (for sex toys).
And the ONLY thing that allows this to happen — the ONLY thing that allows this shit to happen! — is Scientologists’ agreement that it is OK.
Believe me, I do know the answer to this rhetorical question, but why in God’s name do people not just say HELL, NO!
Just Me
Kathy B, above, says it very well.
The reason I continue to come here has a lot to do with the tone level of this group. I learned the importance of differentiating social tone from chronic and granting beingness to those who are moving through tone levels as a result of a process. I respect a lot of the viewpoints posted on this blog. Sure, sometimes it gets heated, even comical but mostly informative and I find my own viewpoint expanding. I never would have stayed if it had been a complete emotional dialtone but admit that I do skip some postings because they are lengthy. What is interesting to one person may not be so to another. Sometimes, those same posts have such interesting responses that I’ll go back and read it after all.
I have no concern on how you moderate the posts and find that you are quite fair in doing so. I appreciate your application of Ethics Review to those people who are pushing the limits of good manners or promoting some other agenda. In DM’s church infractions are met with the highest ethics gradients and huge ARCXs. DM’s misapplication of ethics drives people downtone. Your correct application brings them up. I’m all for setting a standard of acceptable behavior.
Marty~You are doing an excellent job!
(For two years, I moderated 4 boards at secondwivescafe.com. I was member #2 and when I passed the hats, we were up to 1200+.) So I have experience there.
Marty
I am totally good with your “moderation policies”. It must be quite an education and a test of character to run such a blog as this.
Regarding Wayne you said:
“But you know Wayne is capable of change too.”
As I recall, you said to him something along the lines of, that should he, after a time, apply for reinstatement that you would consider it.
I consider that attitude very just. The door is still open, if only a crack.
Ethics /justice must go in if “tech ” is to go in. This ship is on a mission. It would be quite senseless to just let it flounder without a rudder. The ship might be “all over the ocean” picking up those “lost at sea” but that is part of your mission too as I see it.
If I may be so bold I would like to offer a poem to those still “lost at sea”
It is called:
Treading Water
Life’s like being lost at sea.
You’re treading water endlessly.
There’s so much more you’d like to see,
places that you’d rather be,
a notion that you could be free,
yet still you tread a cold black sea.
And mark my words,
without a plan,
you’ll live,
you’ll die,
you’ll tread again!
WW
Marty,
What keeps me coming back to your blog time and time again? Your love for truth, your respect for LRH, your humanity and your invitation to us all into your home.
Thank you brother, for allowing us all into the safe place you have created.
Andy
Actually Wayne was one of the first people I read when he went by the moniker safe@scientology.
He was one of the few people who was able to differentiate between the Organization and the Subject which is why OSA spent much of their time trying to shut him up.
That said.
It sure didn’t gain him any gold stars by sermonizing to Mike how to handle PIs.
Sorta like trying to explain Catholicism to the pope.
Marty,a couple things.
I think everyone agrees that it’s obnoxious, as Mockingbird said, “to be caught in a corner at a party with Mr. “nyah-nyah-nyah” who goes on in a bitter circuit round and round for hours no matter what you say. ”
Since it’s your party, it’s your blog, you can decide who is rude, who is respectful, who is obnoxious, and who is pleasant.
The question is though, do you want to have free and open discussion? Obviously, that’s your choice. And I definitely feel that it is possible to have free and open discussion, and still be respectful. I also feel that it’s a heck of a lot more interesting to have more than one viewpoint, and to maybe even have your ideas challenged (politely). I personally love it when someone presents a great argument, that actually changes a viewpoint I held tightly.
As Jeff said, this is a blog, and not a forum, so you may not want that. But, my last point is that sometimes people that seem to be the bad guys, aren’t . And vice versa. I think that most of us agree on a lot more than we disagree on. Most people are decent on all the boards, and just want to see an end to the abuse. There are some obnoxious boors, and by all means, censor them. But if someone respectfully submits an idea that is counter to the previously held belief, and submits a good argument and good evidence, that seems desirable to me.
Obviously you have been allowing more opposing opinions, and I applaud you for that. It’s tough being a guy who has stuck his neck out to do what is right, and then be criticized. Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. Still you should be applauded and acknowledged for taking a stance against the abuses.
Here’s a person I admire, Andreas Heldal Lund, who appears on the RFW website as a religious bigot, but this video shows him politely and respectfully discussing free speech and the abuses of the church with Joel Phillips–the owner of RFW! I watched it again to make sure it isn’t offensive to indies, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be. He simply talks about his opinion of free speech and exposing the abuses, and even says he would allow Joel more leeway to post what he wanted on Andreas’ website (OCMB).
Metaqual
Yes…
My personal experience with visiting several totally dis related blogs was that there always seem to be a certain few who are just there to be abusive. It seemed to matter not a hoot what the blog was about or what had been posted, they just dramatized their viciousness upon anyone there with absolutely no provocation at all. It is simply their tone. It must be hell to live in their heads.
WW
Who is John Gault?
Funny that line is from the Ann Raynd book and applies here to you also. I know the fear connected to “outing yourself”. It is PTSness IMHO and you can handle it on a gradient. Just posting is a major first step, so VWD!!
I took many such “smaller” steps and it all helped to get me to the point where I could finally say “who I really am”. I just had a cog!! I realized for myself that saying who I am and publically speaking my mind was actually like doing the enemy formula. I had become an enemy to myself and to the group for being afraid to stand up and be counted. I am not trying to pressure you to come out faster than you want. It was just a spontaneous cog.
Anyways, thanks for being here. Can’t wait to here all the gory details. What you described sounded an awful lot like Flag. But I am sure the contagion of abberation spread to many orgs.
ARC,
Tony
So that’s how it is?? 🙂
About Wayne: Someone else’s blog was just not the right venue for him, as he found out.
He has found a happy home on Geir/Claire’s forum, where he can post all the threads he wants to his heart’s content, expounding the development of – himself and his own body of thought without interruption. He is the first to admit he is a work in progress.
It’s better than having his own site, because there is a ready-made audience.
Marty:
Please tell Mosey there are several excellent Vegetarian and Vegan recipes I have that I would like to share with her, including for Cajun style cooking {minus the meat} and very exciting Spanish style rice and beans.
The Church of Scientology is not A or THE legal authority anywhere that order searches of people’s homes and computers, especially people that do not live on the berthing of the church.
Excellent Karen. As usual, a true Class XII handling.
Welcome John Gault to Scientology’s version of ‘Atlas Shrugged’.
Nice to have you with us 🙂
But… but… what happened to formal black silk and gold lame’ thongs???
Amen!
Excellent story John. True to life.
Marty has given you some sound advice.
It is the mistake of many people, many people, to report crimes going on in the church from Scientologists to other Scientologists in the church and expect a result that is workable.
Be it their cases, or their education or the state of affairs of the world, the Scientologists will cover and lie for each other in the name of “Freedom”.
A lot of people no longer do this. They have since wised up, become public out in the open and sue the church or at least prosecute them or at least OUT them to get the ball rolling in the right direction.
Johngault, great handle! Ayn Rand brought focus back to the importance of the 1st dynamic, the individual vs.”groupthink”.
Good for you, for sticking up for your integrity. Take your time to decompress, the rest will come. As LRH said, “It takes as long as it takes.”
I’ll repost a bit of inspiration from the 1970s:
So Patty:
According to your alleged good manners, the person that made this suggestion to you is:
1. Poor mannered
2. Stupid
3. Dumb
4. Rude
5. Arrogant
6. Out Of Valence
Is there anything else you would like to contribute to your character analysis of the person that made it possible for you to make this statement?
That would be excellent manners on your part Patty, wouldn’t you agree?
I admire you for your results, Marty. This blog and it’s participants have created quite the beneficial effects. Awesome Axiom 10 in my book. 🙂
I might add, were you to try to please everyone, you’d have no results, and probably no pleased folks either. And likely Dear Leader would be sleeping much more soundly.
Bruce Pratt
Marty
and any other interested souls;
I happened upon a TV show last night on CBC. ( Canadian Broadcasting Corporation… Canada’s answer to BBC- British Broadcasting Corporation), and there was a show at 10 PM western time, called ” Scientology: The Ex-Files”.
If anyone is interested they gave a link to:
www. cbc.ca/passionate eye
The video link is on the main page, right hand side.
It showcased several Australian ex-scientologists, as well as Marc and Claire Headley. I do not know when the show was taped. It mostly touched on “disconnection”, forced abortions, “bullying” by assigning menial and demeaning tasks, the RPF and other topics. Tommy Davis was “handling” the reporters questions. He actually seemed relatively sane in this one. Still lying through his teeth… but almost human.
WW
OK, I’ll play reference librarian here. WWP totally did not know what to make of Wayne “Safe” Froemke and for those who have the time, it’s a very entertaining thread on WWP.
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/325-mark-marty-rathbun/mark-r athbun-disconnects-safe-my-messages-marty-72502/
Parts are really hilarious, and I have to give Wayne a lot of credit in how he persevered through the flak he received there…. He had them quite befuddled by practicing his NVC “tech”on them….
Geir:
I spotted this a long time ago. The link needed to be updated. So just in case the two of you thought nobody noticed, guess what, wrong again! {LOL}.
I am just joking. Yes, I did notice that link needed to be updated a while ago. I have an eye for such things.
Just Me:
Good analysis. The demand to walk into my home and examine my computers from HCO was outrageous. And at that time, there wasn’t even anything on them ! I was being a “good Scientologist!” But more and more as these kind of things occurred at AOLA and I have a BUNCH of tales to tell…… I knew something was WRONG. Very Very Wrong. The Internet had the answers.
Civil Rights ? Constitutional Rights ? Not in DM’s CULT which operates on Domination/Submission and not WIN/WIN.
The 400 or so in lockdown at INT Base and the 60-100 in SP Hall
or SP “hole” do not not have right of passage through the bars and gates. It is obscene that a THUG such as David Miscavige can get away with it in the year 2010. But for how long ?
JB, John Brousseau was ordered to put up BARS
That’s right, prison BARS as a psych-ops to the prisoners in SP Hole get the idea BARS = PRISON.
Brutality, ABUSE, DOMINATION/SUBMISSION within a
“CHURCH” is simply not going to fly any length of time given that we live on the “Information Superhighway” with no Highway Patrol, no Red lights and Anonymous License Plates. Anyone is FREE to Report Anything.
These So vets are held captive because they can be FUTURE whistleblowers, more to the add to the list of those who expose DM atrocities….
I praise Marty, Mike and Mosey for the moderation done on this site which is EXTREMELY well done.
Marty:
Maybe you should check all the links, so nobody can say anything.
OSA Will the be the first to spot a comm lag like that.
Fortunately I am not OSA, but a little sharper then they are.
I think Wayne’s problem is that he confuses a blog with a News Group and trys to take over.
I’m glad to see that he’s found a venue where he can expond, extrapolate and expatiate to his heart’s content.
Marty you say:
” I think by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher. ”
You’ve done a fantastic job!!! Thanks again,
Marie-Joe
I agree with everything Kathy Braceland said and would’ve written that myself but she beat me to it. I started my journey to freedom from the C of $ by watching the videos produced by the SP Times and then following your blog for so many months. Prior to the SP Times videos I did not even know who “Marty Rathbun” was nor many of the others who gave their statements. I am glad that I have gotten to know you and the many others who post here. VWD!
Treasure it!! I also grew up in the Deep South and remember the courtesy. Nevertheless, I still noticed and appreciated what felt to me at the time as a greater courtesy when we visited England in the 60’s and 70’s. That’s largely gone now, at least it is in southeast England, along with faith.
Marty you and your crew are doing a great job, keep on. Here’s something from the 1970s, from the Golden Horses book, that could just as well be a dedication to this blog and Casablanca Tejas well. It is by Russell Salamon, his best piece that I know of.
I WOULD RATHER MAKE SIMPLER THINGS
1.
Fire song bright day
free and young the sky.
I have been laughing in wind
speaking from the sea.
Flight of immortal dawn
breaks from my eyes.
Liquid immortal music of am
happy carrying the sun
in my tossing hands the sea
urns of unchanneled
mirth I spill and there is
a song of bright day, life.
2.
Taking time from leaf,
I know it is here.
Breathing space from a flower,
it’s perfume shocks me into
lightning and I roar
like the endlessmost ocean
a song of life.
It is here in the palm of my
laughing. I carry the
universe in my own looking
and from the desire to be here
I make it bright and free.
3.
Time comes from a laugh
and when I have killed you
or you have wronged me,
it comes from a laugh
we share over the long drink
of universe, an aside
in the home-bar where we drink
lightning and call it sunlight
and seeing sunlight we call it
earth.
Mirth dances wild,
show me your laugh and
I’ll show you mine.
4.
Treasures of being shape
the round cup of galaxy,
I have been here often.
I see you singing trees and
water. I see you living
down your reputation
on the corner begging.
Immortal universe maker,
it is a good imitation of
defeat and so real that it is
defeat
and it pains me and I do not
wish to join you
and I will not join you.
I would rather make simpler
things like universes
where we can laugh and not
lose ourselves in the joy of
death.
5.
Liquid immortal music of am
burning bright the
round cups of leaves
to carry the stored sun
to bring heavy gifts of thunder,
stone, to oil the liquid sea
with blood of torn sun,
where we have stood divided
for so long
that to carry my love to you
I have to build immortal bridges
to speak my song to you
and hope that the unwashed
universe
will peel from your ears.
6.
Decayed time, it is no longer
water, creeps in stumbling
armies off to war. Solid laughter.
And to solve my love for you
I have sent warring hordes
to tell you, you are my friend.
And it is a heavy thunder
I burn for you
to tell you you are mine
forever
and I will not harm you
I do not wish to harm you,
and I will kill you
if you don’t believe it.
7.
Bring me liquid of your music
and I will breathe you,
for I need you.
Without you this joy is not
a game and without you
I cannot carry the song I build.
Without your eyes to laugh
a sky
I cannot carry the sun song
nor the bright earth
nor the languid or sanguine
joys
war and love bring.
Without you to see with
I have no eyes,
no ears to touch you.
8.
For we have been lost
torn apart
by gnashing thunder and
broken heart’s beat
in the crushing green song
of a gone universe.
Each heart beat singes
suppressed in
the ravaged skeleton,
gnats feasting on boulders,
yet a defiant dawn lurches
forward, at great expense
we are singing.
9.
We who are feasting
at our own celebration
can hear the roar
of the lost green thunder.
Giant laughter
on the abyss carries a
wave of sun.
Liquid immortal music of am
spills
moistens the roots of
universe.
From our own song is
weaved life
and I can hear you
breathing.
10.
Carry your heart in the
liquid heat.
I can bring you to the
verge of song
and there spill lightning
of your own freedom
whose dawn only you carry.
And is not he who sings,
home?
And is not the place of
salvation, you?
And are you not beautiful
and alive,
are you not my friend?
11.
To tell you to sing
is silly,
you have never stopped
singing.
To tell you something you
don’t already know is hard
for in your giant laughter
strides open
and the road you carry
you lay before you.
From your laughter
you sow seas and life
and as you sow so shall you
leap.
12.
Carry the dawn, carry
the hill-free dawn of am.
Carry the sunlight
singing rain and rivers.
Roaring black rocks
liquify. It is their
stored laughter to be
freed.
And in freedom burning
hills
build a city that carries
voyagers
from stone to dreams.
And there a city
home beyond rain
liquid immortal song of freedom
burns
and the day is bright.
by Russell Salamon. Published in 1976.
Very cool! Thanks.
🙂 Agreed totally!
Otherwise it’s all about status or lack of.
what links?
Landon,
Excellent viewpoint. Everyone should have “Free Speech” as a right. But that comes with a “Privilege” to grant respect as a form of civility. In other words, a person can say what they want but not if it infringes on someone else’s right to not receive that “speech” in their own universe.
Free Speech without responsibility and respect invalidates beingness in everyone.
This blog does contribute to “moving on up a little higher” for everyone if and only if, due respect is granted to the host. Your home or my home or Marty and Mosey’s home. Enjoy the party but don’t trash the place!
Arc,
Gary
You can provide a link to the video if anyone is interested. I’m not putting up twenty eight minutes of video for Andreas or Joel.
It’s your blog so you pretty much have the right to moderate exactly as you see fit. Explanations are always appreciated but definitely not needed.
At the risk of being *didactic*… I grew up on the border and while “cabron” probably has mutated and acquired multiple urban meanings it’s base usage as an invective is “asshole”. It actually means male goat but depending on who is calling you a cabron it usually means asshole, or that you’ve been cheated on or even used as a friendly greeting among close friends.
So I think that means the picture you had up the other day is of a couple of cabrons… the meaning of which is dependent on how you feel about those two maricons on the bikes.
http://blog.ensifer.com/
Steve Cook!! It’s the first time I see you post. Have seen you in shorts of indies before only and was “shocked” to see you out too – fond (short) memories when the cover face of the Ethics book used to buy me pizza (as I was hungry) and a pack of cigarettes (as my havingness was zero – as I didn’t have any, cigarettes or money) to increase production (which it did!). A wise man as the cover suggests.
Welcome JohnGault 🙂
Realize just being here and communicating that you instantly have friends who care about your existence. Just like Bobo’s wonderful story pointed out…you are potentially my best friend and I, along with everyone here, will treat you that way if you allow it.
The ones on the right hand side, near the top of this page and just below, like the one that says Geir Isene OT VIII, that up until just a little while ago, before you fixed it, when I clicked on it, it produced a “This Page Cannot Be Displayed” error. Meaning it was a dead link. I was going to report it to you, but I was not sure if I had your E-Mail to do so, other than the Pay Pal with which I make a contribution? That link, not links.
Marty,
Karen #1 mentioned earlier about one never getting a second chance to make the first impression.
Like it happened yesterday, I remember the first eye to eye with you. In 1995, before the Flag Land Base staff were forced to use busses and vans when traveling between buildings, I was walking towards the Clearwater Building and you the Fort Harrison, carrying an e-meter case. I´d heard Mr. Rathbun from RTC was at the base which was very exciting to know and I had secretly hoped to meet this person – there was a special aura around your name to say the least! As I then passed by you that day, no words were spoken, yet I had the distinct idea I had been noticed and my presence acknowledged. You know, it felt damned good! That to me was more manners than oh so many staff or exec had ever demonstrated. Someone might ask, so what did he do? Well, manners is not always about the words or a handshake, it can be the mere notion of being included in someone´s space. I should also mention the other impression I got: As long as you don´t try to load me with bunch of BS I will listen and work with you.
The way you conduct your blog is in sync of how I´ve known you; stick with the truth, be constructive, take some responsibility and you´re welcomed and included.
I´m not your most outspoken guest with data about DM as I never was posted at Int and met him only few times when he was at the FLB. First impression of DM? Left me nervous. As the FSO PR Director I stood outside the auditorium expecting Friday night Graduation (my weekly engram) to end, when DM walked by with his entourage . He asked what my post was and to his entourage, not to me, remarked somewhat disapprovingly “why is she not in the Green Room then?” Are you frigging kidding me!! First I would not have the time to sit around and second I had no business in the Green Room especially while DM was at Flag and known to lounge in there. Was he walking around the base showing off how excellent he was at finding out-points? Yes in my view as he walked away leaving me nervous of what I might have done wrong as I had clearly annoyed the leader. Later encouters did not wipe away that feeling, but enforced it.
I find your home a place to visit A LOT for a lot of good reasons. Your posts spells out the truth about key issues we are resolving, your guests… oh God I love them (most of the time) and then there is Mosey. I am secretly wishing to join her for a good run one day. Love you both.
People like Debbie Cook, Marty Rathbun, Pierre Ethier and Karen De La Carriere just to name a few, are people that I respected when they were in the church. I thought that they had a lot of affinity for me in a way that was very hard to fake.
So, I have no cause to disrespect them now that they are out of church.
And, they are obviously a lot smarter than me in many areas. Debbie Cook {former FSO Captain}, Marty Rathbun {former IG RTC}, Karen De La Carriere and Pierre Ethier {Class XII’s}.
But some people give a false meaning to tech behind moderation, which is merely to keep the flow of communication and understanding flowing.
Is Marty the moderator? I wouldn’t know, he must be I guess because his name is on top of the page. So, even if I never got to say hi to him like I thought I might have always wanted to when he was in the Sea Org, now I can. What harm is there in that?
But I am not confused about why he left the SO or here to challenge him on his views. If I don’t have something to say that makes sense than I don’t say anything at all.
People like David Miscavige, most people resent having to take orders from someone like that and report to him or else, knowing the kind of routine incompetence his generally and usually capable of.
So as long as one sticks to the truth here if on this BLOG I don’t see how Marty or anyone else might have to step in and redirect matters.
Mike Rinder included in the list of intelligent former SO members.
Total WOW! Top of any scale there is. Wonderful.
Thankyou!
This was good for me.
Michael,
The liner notes for Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue go over composing as one plays. I love your composition.
WH,
Yes, ‘fourthly’ is a word. I looked it up 🙂
Bobo,
Holy cats! That was beautiful.
WW,
I caught the show. Tommy, Tommy, Tommy – just lied, and lied and lied.
Truth is sooooo much easier. Hell, even an acceptable truth would have been better than that.
Kirsi, We both look forward to you visit.
I think you may be thinking of another Cook.
Thank you for establishing and moderating this blog! I, personally, have found out more data in the last few months than in many previous years. I have also found there are far more friends available than I first thought. This is a perfect example of us “Moving On Up a Little Higher.” Hallelujah!
TO THOSE COMPLAINING OF CENSORSHIP:
Our right to individual opinions (free speech) DOES NOT INCLUDE a forced or mandatory audience . What’s the problem?
People can stand in a PUBLIC place and say what they’d like (within reason), but no one is required to listen, nor are they obligated to forward those opinions.
A blog is not a “public street corner” it is as private or public as the person who set it up wants it to be. Their decision to forward, or not, some one’s ideas is a choice THEY are entitled to – not a free speech or censorship issue.
Note to moderators:
If you choose not to post this I WILL FILE A LAWSUIT.!! 🙂
Exactly! Sarge is the founder of ‘sudden’ 😀
Ditto ♥ 🙂
John,
Maybe Atlas is shrugging again.
Just Me,
“Zone Kumbaya?” I feel a tear welling. Such memories.
As for your earlier comment about sex toys: at my age we are allowed to redefine such things as “health aids.” When last audited for excessive deductions, I took the auditor to my special little room and showed him the healthful benefits of each item. Afterwards, we smoked a few cigarets, donned leather motorcycle chaps au naturel and posed for a few manly shots aboard matching Harleys that would have made Marlon giddy.
I love wearing those chaps whenever Marty post photos of DM’s bikes. When I read an especially good comment, I like to lean back in my chair and flex my biceps. Makes me feel so…so…strong, so manly, so powerful, so…so…tall. Makes me feel like the Pope.
Sam,
Personally, I’m only politically correct with people for whom I have little or no respect. If I treat someone a little rough it means I like them and respect their ability to take it. If I treat someone really rough it means I like them a lot. So when someone is politically incorrect around me it means they’ve given me their trust. (Unless they’re complete idiots–and then all bets are off.)
WW, it was filmed in early 2010. The original program page is here: http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20100308/scientology/ There are extra video interviews.
WH,
Yeah, you cancelled one on me and made me look like an idiot. I resent someone taking over my job. I feel that I do a perfectly adequate job of making myself look like an idiot without any help.
And seventhly, I want to see what the eighthly dynamic is really all about. I have long wondered what you actually see, Windhorse. I place a great deal of value on personal experience. What is that person experiencing? Philosophies, axioms and logics are fine as summations, but saying “apple” does not come close to experiencing the range of flavors in hundreds of varieties of that fruit. Nor in capturing the essence of that fruit in a still life.
So much, so much to know.
Michael
Warning: Anyone who mess’s with this blog is committing suicide.
Theta means what it means and if you go against it you are just falling on your own sword, and that includes the Church of Miscavage as well. Never cut a theta line and always cut an entheta line.
Yes TEG! that’s the appropriate/correct reference … all the way …
Thanks
Let’s hope that you do not get scores of recommendations regarding the best attorney to hire that specializes in such cases! {LOL}
In an instance such as that, I would suspect it was OSA making the recommendations.
You are very kind. Thank you ! 🙂
Yes, Tao, that — as Bobo said — is the way it is …
“Granting people Beingness without any initial demand for reasons to grant them Beingness”
I learned that from walking among Falun Gong practitioners …
Well I helped Wayne stand his ground on WWP for a while but it resulted in a good old Mart Bashing wich part of the Anons thought was sweet coming from him. And after he figured out The guy posting as anonnymous really wasn’t one guy he seemed to do fine aside from the bad-mourthing. Seemed he went of in the realm of pink painted BS.
Marty: Good show Sir 😉
“Over at Marty’s” alsoo. 😉
atcause | November 7, 2010 at 3:48 pm | Reply
“I can tell you this, Marty is a much more rational and fair moderator than you will find on WWP or ESMB. ”
The Moderators on ESMB are excellent, and follow my own line of moderating minimally.
There is quite a difference between MSMB and here over and above
the fact that ones a forum and ones a blog. Marty has certain purposes
which he forwards. Emma wanted to create a good space where the many different view points re scn and COS can be discussed. As there are die hard
rabid critics and freezoners and every view inbetween things can get quite heated, but by and large the moderation is only about manners rather than viewpoint.
Not sure if Emma thought things would go this way, ESMB has enabled many exes, who mostly no longer wish to be involved with scn, to meet
and communicate and in doing so release masses of charge, from for example the enormous injustices many have suffered. Also it is the best gateway to the independent/ FZ . Though possibly this blog rivals it. I
have been banned from posting success stories on every other forum,
other than ARS and ACT which are completely moderated yet Emma continues to allow my posting of promotional material, and there are areas
for both independent ane FZers. Note that Emma will have recieved many
urges to not allow my promotonal posts: Thats how I got banned on other forums.
With regard to this forum I think Marty does an excellent job. Ive had posts stopped, and had some dismissive comments from Marty. But he has allowed posts of mine that would be very controversial to many here, and
also from others.
I also, being a died in the wool liberal, like that Marty recomends non LRH books from time to time. Very un cultish:)
No moderator can be perfect. A moderator has to in some respects be a shepherd for his flock, who have a variety of viewpoints. As one cant fool
all of the people all of the time, so one cant please all of the people all of the time.
OUaT,
You are such a trip! Please send photos. Also, let’s talk this week.
Just Me
Valkov, I have to agree. Imagine Wayne. Then imagine WWP and Anonymous. Now, mix. It was thigh-slapping hilarious!
Just Me
Patty,
Psssssssst, Sssssssst (PS), I made up ‘casticize’. Cool huh.
😆
Redefined: health aids
I think by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher. I could not agree more. Thanks Marty!
Thank you Marty.
In my life, I feel when it is over I may watch it in a film.
A film only I will ever know about.
And how will I see myself in that film?
What we do today to one another will run in film version in some part of our universe through eternity.
I have tried to be careful about others when I am under pressure.
And God knows the road we have traveled has been under pressure.
I find out who I really am under pressure, and so does everyone else.
I also find out who other people are under pressure.
Some say the bank keys in but many people rise above the bank. Otherwise we would not have a civilization at all.
If I have been unkind to anyone posting here I would care to correct myself.
That’s a nice poem WW. Thank you. I love poems I can understand!
This has applied to my life AFTER leaving the SO.
I truly loved my life in the SO – working for (I thought) Ron and our planet.
What a betrayal!
Marty’s blog is helping give me a (new) plan.
Hope it’s done the same for you.
I was kicked off of ESMB while posting as “the oracle” when I defended Pierre. When I critisized that happening, all of the posts about the founder of ESMB and my censorship were deleted from view instantly. Then, so were all of my posts. Fine, when you are a guest in someone else’s house you are always temporary. I have been harrassed on this forum only by two people and two others spoke up for me at the same time. I have never been censored. I don’t know who is promoting ESMB as a total democracy but I did not find it to be so. Nevertheless, the person complaining and pointing is building walls between us. And that is always a red flag. We are all on the same side over here.
One of my Favorits as I am both a Queen AND Bowie fan.
Anything can be twisted to make it look like the opposite of what it was. Ya don’t have to actually *lie* to give a completely false picture. (LRH gives examples of that in Data Series 2, section “illogic”).
Idomind, there’s more to the story…….Why don’t you give it *all* to give the true concept of what *actually* occurred?
Rude RTC valence? I drove someone to a Narconon in Connecticut you were running. You sent him back out on the streets to get money for auditing after a few months without contacting me. My best friend found him dead under the sink from an overdose of methadone and alchohol. He was my best friend’s brother. You were on a stat push. I was in the Sea Org under stat pushes in hot seats less than 1% of staff could occupy and I was never so careless. Whatever recklessness you are here accusing Marty of with power valences , I don’t care to know about. I forgive you. I just can’t forgive myself for trusting you with someone’s life.
I’m sorry but that is just an outright lie.
You left of your own accord after posting some FZ drama in the Pierre thread which I eventually locked.
Any post of yours that were deleted *you* deleted after having a bitch fight with Denis Erlich.
Its pretty easy to prove. go yo http://www.forum.exscn.net/member.php?u=288 and search for all your posts.
You are neither banned or blocked – you left in a hissy fit.
Amazing how the tuth becomes “acceptable”.
Thanks for posting here Emma. Drama seems to be Pierre’s middle name.
“He had them quite befuddled by practicing his NVC “tech”on them”
Since when was befuddling Anonymous members a tremendous accomplishment?
That is truly amazing that my posts and name are back up there.
You did say, “I thought you were leaving”.
I did not find the posts I made critisizing you and ESMB still there.
I wouldn’t call myself an outright liar because of the above. I would say my name and a lot of my posts are back up there.
It is not true that I deleted my own posts. Neither did I delete any of the posts that were about our heated exchange and my critism.
Someone else did.
So, I am not outright lying. I would say I haven’t looked at your board since the last time I looked and my name and posts were not there.
And you are not admitting the entire truth.
So we are probably equal in our faults.
I would even go so far as to admit perhaps my name and posts have always been there and I (and others inquiring to me) just could not find them. That could explain that and if so I (and others) have been blind.
I always look for missing comm or misunderstoods. That fact that you accuse me of outright lying as the only possibility suggests we may not evolve into an understanding about this.
If all the posts were still there though, it would all be there in writing, our upset, the whole picture, and there would not be anything to guess about, because it would all be there in writing.
The point is and why we are able to argue and disagree in the first place, is that there are chunks that are missing.
And that is what I was pointing out here. I was censored and had posts critisizing you deleted. And anyone going back over those threads can see there is a chop off and a missing ending.
The ending where you slammed me and I slammed back and you ripped the thread down and I said was not posting anymore and you said “I thought you were leaving.”
If I had not been censored and slammed for posting, it would be there, the whole conversation.
And the point I am making here, is that you did attack me and pull of a thread and stop it by sending it to the sin bin and then my further posts were deleted.
There is nothing untrue that I have said here except I do see my name and some of my posts are there again.
This is the last comment I making about here about this. I am not going to dirty this blog with a personal dispute.
I still know I was censored and had posts deleted. I did not find ESMB to be a complete democracy.
If you want to defend that statement and say here before everyone it is a complete democracy and you do not censor or attack people for communicating or delete threads and posts, then I am dead wrong.
It wouln’t be the first time and not the last.
About my leaving, the post you still have up there as your last post, which is there for anyone to read, today anyway, clearly says:
“Take your FZ hissy fits AWAY FROM ESMB.
WE DON’T CARE.
Resolve it on your own boards.
Thank you. ”
This is why I stopped posting there, at your request.
I could say probably it would be great if we showed Marty the same courtesy and kept our ESMB hissy fits away from this arena.
JIM LOGAN to Patty.
“So you have to make some keystrokes and put forth some effort to look something up. So?”
Personally I think the references to netiquette are apt.
However Marty [ could be anyone] was making a statement. Its
a more powerful statement if the correct links are included. Also
IMO good manners. 🙂
The reason I have posted here is because I find Marty interesting. If I have posted to anyone else mostly it is because I said something to Marty or for Marty and someone else not Marty replied (as just happened). I look here because there are some fascinating people here.
If Marty was not posting here I would not be reading this blog and rarely do I read what anyone else posts. To date, he is an “only one” in many ways. Sea Org people themselves are “only few”. So they are interesting anyway.
I don’t care to be interesting. But thank you for the invitation Carmel.
martyrathbun09 | November 9, 2010 at 2:58 pm | Reply
“Thanks for posting here Emma. Drama seems to be Pierre’s middle name.”
The Oracle, or “Idomind” is one of my greatest friends who hosted a party for me in her home and introduced me to Ken Urquhart and
and many others were also introduced to him, and others introduced to others. 🙂
Oracle is one of the most generous life affirming persons I know.
You should have some idea of this Marty. If not mail me, and
note its not for the public area.
I also love Emma who consistently posts with wisdom, and created a great space for others to communicate. Don’t understand the conflict between them and its news to me.
Pierre’s middle name is “superb tech”. As an aside he is also excellent at drama. Lol!
LRH talked about the difficulty of handling ” the living lightening of interpersonal communication.” [ approx]
Having spent years trying to resolve such I conclude he had a point.
RJ | November 8, 2010 at 2:32 am | Reply
“Actually Wayne was one of the first people I read when he went by the moniker safe@scientology.
He was one of the few people who was able to differentiate between the Organization and the Subject which is why OSA spent much of their time trying to shut him up.”
He was a pioneer really. Before a freezone was established, that I could promote, I reposted his posts for a year.
So he can get long winded. I can at times but probably people are grateful that this is ameliorated by the fact that I mostly don’t post so frequently.
So he’s a passionate loose cannon. However but their for the grace of god there I might go also.
Victoria | November 7, 2010 at 6:09 pm | Reply
“Throughout the spring and into early summer I blew so much charge interacting with others here, gathering information that rang so true it couldn’t help but unravel those knots in the string that had crashed my kite big time, a long time ago.”
Note that this same process has occurred on ESMB. Often with people who now reject any wish to use scn.
In each case third dynamic engrams are destimulated.
Its an illustration of the power of communication.
As an addendum here one should note that if someone wants to
reject scn one should not attack them. [ they probably have good reasons for starters!]
One should apply the concept of making them right. An extension
of granting beingness. This will help them in possibly seeing anew
the value of scn. Or not. Calling them scn swearwords like SP etc
will merely reaffirm their decision to reject scn.
Oh come now Terril,
Wayne was given plenty of chances by Marty to cut down the size of his posts but he kept issuing them in the size of ‘War and Peace’.
He was here on the same terms as the rest of us.
Besides I’m sure Wayne is a great guy but he ain’t the only one who has creds and they respect the posting policy as well.
You are right on one note. I did delete some posts I made to Dennis. About three years ago or four if I am correct. Obviously, I was not complaining about those posts I deleted when I mentioned being censored and having my posts deleted (by others).
Thank you Terril, truly a walking encyclopedia when it comes to history and events and people in the Freezone. Also a great guy! I have no conflict with Emma. I didn’t fit in on that forum with the points I was trying to make and I was asked to take these issues someplace else. That was a decent request. And it was true I wasn’t in any harmony over there and worked mainly on recovery cycles and mediation cycles which was not the purpose of the forum. She was right to tell me I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am not complaining about any of that. I was just making the point that for someone to compare this blog with ESMB in a way to make ESMB look more liberal or democratic was not MY experience. And I relayed my experience. I loved a lot of people on ESMB and I defended a lot of former Sea Org Members on ESMB. That was then and I was patriotic and had more time to pay attention to the needs of people who wanted to be helped by me. This is now and I am not so patriotic and awfully choosy about how my help gets spent. That was then when I was alone in defending the Sea Org Members and many other things. This is now and there are many other people who can say it all and do it much better than I ever did or ever could have. I am glad for all of it and grateful to Emma for the time she permitted me to contribute my voice when I had one I wished to share. I think the most beneficial help any of us can give outside of opinions is whatever support we can give to Marty. He has the clearest view as he has viewed this game from EVERY ANGLE. Otherwise I choose to help and support auditors and people that are training other people and people that are building bridges. I honestly do not belong on any forum in any full time capacity. But if I don’t spectate a little there is no exchange with this community. And you have to admit in this group no matter what bench people sit on the exchange between peoples is like nothing else going on except maybe for a Wall Street insider on the floor of the exchange. T.O.
Idomind – If anything, I invited you to give the facts to clear up a false picture (for those interested in the truth of the matter). If you don’t want to do that, then that’s your call.
Atcause,
Sometimes it’s hard to tell, online, without tone of voice and facial expression to go by, when someone is joking. So if you are joking, it might be best to add a 🙂 to your posts, to keep from being misunderstood.
Otherwise I might start to wonder whether you are naturally snide and supercilious, or have worked at learning to be so. Kinda like a “Mini-OTVIII”.
Looks like I posted a broken link – again. Damn extra spaces are hard to spot! So here it is again –
“Wayne VS. the WWP: Non-Violent Smackdown!” Enjoy.
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/325-mark-marty-rathbun/mark-rathbun-disconnects-safe-my-messages-marty-72502/
You put this as a reply to a post I put up about pressure. But now as you say more it seems I am invited to a BofI or comm ev to sort out truth from lies, as a response to a post I put up about pressure. Sorry if I misunderstood. If someone else understands I have been kept out of the loop on a program that is already running. If you are calling a BofI or investigation here on Marty’s forum for something I have no idea about I admit I am clueless. I don’t mean to sound irresponsible although I do that as I wish, since I have no obligations or contracts here, who are “those” interested I am wondering. Are you with some hidden audience I can’t see?
I don’t even know who you are and I have never had a conversation with you in my life so obviously I could not have mislead you with a post about pressure and a music video. You have some agenda going that is on a different page. Maybe I am a little curious. But this summons for some justice cycle as a result of a music video I posted with thoughts about pressure strikes me as a trap of somekind. If I have never met you, never spoken to you, have no idea who you are or what you are talking about, that could mean a whole lot of things but I don’t like to list.Either way, I am not here to sell myself. Let the accusations fly. For whatever reason, you have already decided I should be harmed suppressed or attacked or you would not be here making subtle accusations. That is your condition to me, the one where you decide someone should be harmed attacked or suppressed. Since you have taken that route without examinging my stats and you have no idea who or what I am, I think that is your responsibility. I am not the one in a lower condition here. And I am not coming after you. Neither entertaining this mystery game with my time or attention. Neither do I choose to go into some enemy condition just because you are there with me.
This is all news to me. Lot of generalities in your post. How about some time place form and event. Name the names, provide the dox or just stfu.
“I don’t know who is promoting ESMB as a total democracy but I did not find it to be so.”
I didn’t find it to be so either.
Marty, been busy with family, but with the initiation of the series on Black Dianetics , it seems like a good time to get that post up. I’ll get something to you this weekend. P.S. The account is still good.
Thanks, RJ. I’ve made a few on earlier blog entries, but have been a bit busy lately and my focus has been on other dynamics. Time to broaden the horizon again! 🙂
Any link posted here is bound to generate hundreds of clicks, maybe even thousands. I think of this too when I decide whether to include a link. Just sayin’ 🙂
Idomind, sorry for the misunderstanding on what I was referring to (in both my posts). I should have clicked on the reply button next to the post I was referring to……….. It was the one about you reportedly being banned from ESMB when posting as The Oracle.
V – Agree absolutely! Thanks.
Thank you Carmel for explaining that. This may clear that matter up. I never said the word banned. What I said is in writing: “I was kicked off of ESMB while posting as “the oracle” when I defended Pierre.”
And Emma’s words are in wrting to: ““Take your FZ hissy fits AWAY FROM ESMB.
WE DON’T CARE.
Resolve it on your own boards.
Thank you. ”
It is all there on the board if you want to click on the link provided.
What is not there is a verbal argument we had where I critisized Emma. And she said it again afterwards, “I thought you were leaving”, along with my opinions about that and her.
Since it is in writing for everyone to see for themselves, it should be as clear as a bell.
Otherwise, the front door is always open Carmel.
theoracle@ymail.com
Best, T.O.
Emma has been attacked by OSA. Suggested she contact Marty for advice.
She don’t like Marty. Maybe she wont contact you.
I request that you contact Emma.
Shit below:-
“I wasn’t going to make this public as I was going on some advice from some wise and trusted friends. But seeing as some assclown (youknow who you are. I love you dearly but that was fucking stupid) put it on Facebook and within minutes it was on WWP I have to post a clarification.
Yesterday morning just before 8am 5 armed policemen (not the usual ones, but the scary looking ones in suits) turned up at my door with a search and arrest warrant.
They went through the whole house and confiscated all 3 of our computers (mine, Ians & my daughters) plus two external hard drives. They also took some disks which are inconsequential.
They were very polite & professional and I have no issue with them at all. They did their best to make me feel comfortable. (Well as comfortable as anyone can be on a Tuesday morning when you arrested before breakfast or before you can even get your kid to school.)
Then they took me down to the station, questioned me on video, took a mugshot etc. and took me home.
I haven’t been charged with anything as yet.
I won’t comment any further on any evidence etc as it could hurt me.
I’d really appreciate it if you could just read the info, digest it and then give me some space & time to sort this out with the people who can help me. I don’t mind if you talk amongst yourselves but please don’t ask me too many questions.
Cheers.”
Thanks, idomind.
My objection to your comment (here on Marty’s blog) was that it came across like you were banned from ESMB *because* you were defending Pierre, when that wasn’t the case. People don’t get kicked off ESMB for defending *anybody*, so the inference that it happened to you was enough for me to want to make comment.
Cheers.
Valkov,
“Mini-OTVIII”?
Who’s been snide now?
I did not use the word banned, again, this is an alter is. Also I did not say because I was defending Pierre. This is exactly what I said: “I was kicked off of ESMB while posting as “the oracle” when I defended Pierre.”
I said WHEN. Not BECAUSE. I said KICKED OFF, not BANNED.
As long as you are alter ising my comm you are throwing out new meanings for me to defend that I did not mean.
Carmel I don’t want to keep trying to handle this.
If I said something to offend you please accept my apology.
Best, T.O.
Lastly Carmel,
I don’t think you read what I wrote or Emma wrote.
You announce: “People don’t get kicked off ESMB for defending *anybody*, …”
I was defending somebody and this is exactly what I was told:
“Take your FZ hissy fits AWAY FROM ESMB.
WE DON’T CARE.
Resolve it on your own boards.
Thank you. ” Emma
T.O.
It is easy to prove. If you go to “community” link and click on “members” you will not find my name there or access to my posts.
No need for an apology. I did read what was said, but I see it from a different perspective than you do.
Refer to my first post here…..I’m not saying that you said something which was untrue, but given the omission of relevant info, I believe that you *did* give a misconception.
IMO, *words* and their literal meaning aren’t a defence when one relays a *concept* that’s misleading.
I’m not saying that what you said was incorrect, but with relevant omissions to give the full picture, I do believe that the concept you gave *was* incorrect AND misleading.
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Johngault,
Thank you for your first post, getting your feet wet on this blog.
Having read Ayn Rand’s “The Fountainhead” you have gotten a good education in suppression/oppression and where able to see the same in the Co$. When writing KRs goes nowhere it blows the good staff off. Welcome to the new home here.
Looking forward to hear the ‘whole story’ soon!
Greta
Sam,
I would dread the day you become ‘politically correct! 🙂
(“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end” – TX A+M University).
Keep that fire up. Your sparks and explosions are highly welcome.
Greta
+1!
Greta
M+M+M,
I love your ‘cyber house’ and you’re doing just great.
To be able to come in, soak up some theta, learn something new, expand with a bunch more and new viewpoints, spill some BBQ sauce, have some chats and a do some fending and then leave again to take care of other dynamics is just awesome.
After 13 years of being out of the S.O. this ‘truth finders’ nest’ has become a real home I would not want to miss anymore.
Even so every time I arrive I see the “Moving On Up A Little Higher” title it is good to focus on that subject and how to get this done. In fact I got this concept of a double helix like the DNA strands. Yes, all moving on up a little higher. That’s why I always come back.
Greta
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