First, let us get some historical perspective. Here is Adolph Hitler’s New Reich Chancellery, designed by his personal architect Albert Speer:
Now, let’s compare the look with Miscavige’s newest (yet to be announced) multi-million dollar monument to himself:
This edifice has been constructed and completed for many months. Evidently, as we visited at five p.m. on Friday, there is no production in sight. It is the culmination of a twenty-five year effort by Miscavige to wipe out dissemination and distribution divisions internationally. Since the passing of LRH, Miscavige has steadily worked to prevent Dissemination and Distribution Divisions from disseminating and distributing. First, he forbade them to originate and print promotional materials promising that a centralized center would provide them with such. Then he systematically prevented Central Marketing Unit from producing and distributing promotion to orgs. Then he destroyed the Central Marketing Unit altogether. Certain non-compliant orgs continued to do their own promotion and survived. Miscavige’s answer to that is a multi-million dollar building proving no need for orgs to produce and distribute promotion. The proof of the intent is that the new building, like the orgs, sits idle.
When Miscavige finally gets around to needing that building for an event – that will promise the greatest breakthrough in Scientology dissemination ever – it will be filled with extras to man the multi-million dollar, state of the art printing facilities for very encouraging event videos. The last of the defiant orgs will be thus persuaded to lose their Dissem and Distrib staff and leave it to Dave. The extras from the videos will be re-posted to the location of his next breakthrough – Idle org, or whatever. And the complete annihilation of Scientology promotion will be a fait accompli in his mind. Realize the depth of the smoke and mirrors – expensive, published promotion is so ‘retro’ no successful operation of any kind depends upon it in this electronic information age.
The EP of Miscavige’s program is the neutron bomb strategy accomplished. A neutron bomb is designed to destroy as much humanity as possible within a given area while preserving as much MEST (property) as possible in the same area.
The EP looks something like this:
Thank God for independence.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Good demo of Godwin’s law.
I’m not making a Nazi analogy at all. To the contrary the analogy is solely drawn to Adolf, something Dave in his heart of heart’s is thankful for.
Any predictions on if these buildings will always be a waste or if they’ll ever again be used ethically for standard Scientology? I know mest is not the focus but all of the buildings could service a lot of people. I know some of the overly opulent orgs could be sold but is Big Blue lost forever too? And do you see booming independent orgs in the U.S. opening anytime in the next few years say? Decentralized Scientology seems both good in some ways but also bad in others. Any thoughts?
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L. Ron Hubbard Way has been D E A D for years now. It was dead from back when I was “in”. I used to try to help re-vive LA Org, ASHO, AOLA—to no avail. Go to any mission, “org”—-pretty much around the world, they are
D E A D.
If that’s Dave-the-slave’s product, then what can he possibly be thinkin?
Are you all here, or was that taken months ago? If now…give me a call 🙂
PS: Where is that first building? Is that Super Power or the huge complex they’re building in Africa. I have word (From someone living there) that daily Sea Org are working, building some huge complex there, in South Africa. Any idea on that one?
Marty, it was the same on July 5th when we were in CW. There were no public or little public around. Even though everyone now takes busses, they were even empty and devoid of public.
Where is that “dissem” building that is obviously not disseminating, located at?
ML Tom
Interesting. I’m curious as to the time and day of the week. Even if it was a Sunday I would never expect to see things that empty. Any chance you went by Thursday at 2pm?
where is the promotion and dissemination bldg located at?
How fitting,
For the Holiday season we get another example of the waste of well intentioned parishioners monies. Kudo’s to you finding this and filming it. I can’t wait to hear what the excuse is for not using the building. Did anyone really think you can put the logo up on the front of the building and nobody would notice it?
With no CMU functioning we can expect more waste on promo lines.
Truth is what is setting us free. The more truth is out there the more and faster will be the flow to the Independent side.
Wow, what a ghost town DM is constructing. And damn if that building is not a doppleganger for a Speer inspired design.
All that is missing now is the sign overhead which reads:
“Arbeit Macht Frei”
Nobody sees that with nice buildings in LA nobody comes in? Why pay for nice buildings elsewhere?
The total evisceration of Scientology grows ever closer.
Governor Tarkin: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.
General Tagge: But that’s impossible. How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?
Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.
…………………………………………………………….. —– Star Wars (1977)
Marty,
I believe that this song is metaphorically appropriate….
We should thank Davey Boy for accelerating the expansion of the Indie field!
Scott
metaqual,
I don’t mean to answer for either Marty or Mike, but I can tell you
L. Ron Hubbard Way is visited all different times of the day and night,
by both critics, anonymous and now Independent Scios—and with ALL,
it is D E A D. Many have videos showing it. The only people that are there,
consistently for 10 years, are “Security”. Way to go, OSA! (I have timed it, just walking down the street. They have it cleared in less than 5 minutes). Confront? Those days are gone. It’s run by weasels and floor mats, which is why I call “dave” Dave-the-slave, as that IS all he really is.
If Dave has to spend untold future fortunes in the legal arena for his upcoming, inevitable motivator(s), he can just start selling off the empty properties all around the world (at a tremendous loss per the current economy, of course).
How charming.
In Commerce City (East LA).
I now fully understand the situation and the handling for Scientology.
Situation: Due to some inherent flaws in the administration of Scientology an SP has taken control with the intention of unmocking Scientology and Scientologists through overwhelm.
Handle: Bypass the organization by creating Independent Scientology outposts all over the world delivering Scientology. Have a loose Organization kept together through communication on the Internet. These communications will keep the Indies abreast of the state of the suppressive organization and keep us in comm with everyone throughout the world.
These comm lines will be unstoppable.
Each Independent Organization to act as an external ethics and tech function. The ethics part is to put ethics in on the church of miss savage. This has already been taking place. As we expose the crimes and overts of dm he through the duress we put on him has to get his ethics in a bit. We have to do this externally because trying to do it internally was impossible. If we also let the people still trapped know that there is an alternative to the savagery of the now cult, we can continue to build our Independent Organizations fully out creating the dm-bot organizations. We have now entered into the free-phase of Scientology where there is competition from Independent groups. The ones that deliver what is needed and wanted will survive. The ones that deliver enforcement and lies and crime will succumb as we see happening with the church of savage.
We are already enroute to the final victory. Our postulates are changing things. It is just that the MEST universe has not caught up to our postuates yet.
Products that can be had:
1. DELIVER THE TECH
2. Putting pressure on the bots through communicating on this and other blogs and directly through emails etc.
3.documenting through video what is happening in the church of savage.
4. Infiltration of the church of savage and reporting what is happening inside of it. All done legally.
5. Have group meetings in your local areas to create ARC and build in size. Real fun … no phoney creating.
6, Flourish and prosper in your own lives and we can lead by example of what it means to be Independent and free and use the tech the way it was intended.
Mike,
Are you serious??East LA? Oh my Gawd—Sure sounds like this *may* be for the Louis Farraccon gang, I’ll bet. I made a video to the Nation of Islam, after hearing LF pitch “ALL had to be studying (on course) by Tuesday night, or “We’ll thank you for all you’ve done and say good-bye”. (Disconnection).
(He’s been at CC on course, and did the Purif that I know of).
After hearing that, I made a video to the N.O.I. and it ended up on CROE TV that Sunday after I made it, with some of his peers agreeing with me, that joining C of $ is a bad idea. They even showed my video, saying, “We’re going to show what this white, Caucasian lady has to say” and they played my video on TV! Too funny~!
Thanks for showing this building—do you think it’s in connection with Louis Farraccon? Phew….amazing times, either way.
I was in Dissem CLO EUS for a couple years. The new era of management had a dissem unit for CLO and FLO. The CLO was given only a mimeograph and we were supposed to print off promo for SMI and the FOLO etc. and send this stuff out to orgs. It was a duplicate function because FLO dissem div was doing the same thing.
So I wrote the FLO and Int and info’d tons of people laying out how ridiculous this setup was and how orgs were renting outside storage facilities solely to store the massive amounts of promo sent to them. Orgs didn’t have the means or motivation to mail all this out. We would sometimes get 21 boxes, for 21 orgs, of overnighted fedexed promo sent to the CLO from the FLO with no instructions, on top of what they were sending directly to orgs – a very wasteful stat push.
I laid out in the report how it’s the org’s own money funding this and they should be able to request what promo they want only when they want it, and gave some other pointers I thought made sense. Around that time I was the dissem golden boy but then I got thrown off that post because I said I didn’t want to stat push anymore and so was put on the decks for a few days, then put back on post and they found out I was still CI to it so they comm-evd me then EPFd me. This was my first brush with the realization of how robotic people were acting, not taking responsibility for real VFP’s.
A couple months later while on the EPF I found out they’d listened to me. I was put up into external comm for the day to phone-nudge in some telexes asking each org for an account of their promo stocks and if they used outside storage buildings. Ext Comm staff had the day off because it was christmas. That was a good feeling when I saw what I had to nudge because I knew this would save the church millions and I’d felt bad about my time in dissem, thinking I’d probably wasted tons of money in printing and shipping crappy promo, so this was going to make up for that.
It did too because when I got back on post I found out Dissem FLO was overhauled and the Dissem Chief FLO had been replaced. Then about a year later I was talking to the new FLO rep about how messed up things are and she told me “it’s not all bad and things are getting better, look at what happened to Dissem FLO!”
The CLO hadn’t been briefed on the change and she didn’t know that so I started asking her about the ideas I’d proposed in the report and she said those were the changes that took place, including that orgs now requested what type of promo they wanted instead of truckloads of random stuff shoved down their throat. Also outside storage facilities were cancelled. She said they’d had a base briefing about it.
If this new building means org’s have to send up promo money to get back a flood of promo they don’t want, that’d be a shame. It’s much better to handle it as covered in the OEC where you have the org in charge of their own promo and surveying and printing their own like I know boston used to do for example. Then the org has control of their own dissemination and sell what service they want. You find a product public wants and you promote it to them, each org’s public is different. LRH covers in OEC vol 2 how other churches have had success with low quality promo. The result is orgs have lost that local flavor to their promo, and the inspiration that comes with your own origination on self designed promo pieces. When I was in Boston in the 90’s they used to mail out promo that DM might say is tacky but I liked it. It gave the org an aura of warmness and localness. And the public knew the org was up and running because it was obviously locally produced.
Part of the point of the org mag, as covered in policy, is to let the public know that their local org is up and running and so orgs are supposed to send local news and events and completions to the FLO where they print the mag, so it looks like the org printed the thing locally. Also fliers are supposed to be very secondary to the org mag. The mag is the centerpiece of the printing and packaging branch by far. I don’t have the OEC here but LRH goes over this.
But fliers and brochures have been a bigger deal than the org mag. Orgs had to send up a certain percentage of income every week to pay for more and more fliers but oftentimes the org mag wouldn’t go out on time because an org didn’t have the money. I don’t know if this point was changed as well from my report but that’s what I recommended is to set up a finance line where the fliers are paid for only after the mag is paid for.
I don’t have all the data on this building but it looks like a move back towards waste and international survey buttons.
Handling has got to come from within. Get all those asshole celebrities off their keister. Same goes for the stellar personalities and power brokers. In all organizations it comes down to a power of equal magnitude type thing. Three twenty-foot people in the room plot and talk to each other, not the dozens of six-footers. Whistleblowers contribute in a big way.
Wonder if that German TC movie was to show what happens to those plotting mutiny. A dose of predictive programming at which hollywierd excels.
Godwin’s law? He ain’t anybody’s god.
Saw car’s in the parking lot of Hubbard Street. Who do they belong to?
I rather would see stats. Not being in the streets doesn’t mean that they are not in course rooms or auditing rooms.
Well, the church DOES need a state-of-the-art printing facility. The latest Impact Mag looked like a freakin’ National Geographic but with gold leaf on the cover. You can’t produce that kind of heart-felt promo just anywhere.
Two words come to mind. Introversion and Hiding.
I’ve heard some unusual and creative ways being undertaken to provide Class V staff with enough money to eat, despite their Idle org being empty.
One is to have Sea Org missionaires help to find moonlighting jobs for the staff.
Another is for the staff to ask public to pledge support. Example a Course Supervisor might ask his public student to pledge, to give him, $200 a month for the next year to help pay his food and rent. The idea is that if
a Scientologist isn’t going to make the commitment to work in the org for
slave wages they can make up for it by forking over money directly to those that do.
Maybe DMs printing presses can send out fliers to the Scientology public
letting them know that for just $20 a week they can help feed a staff member.
Seattle update:
We have several moles within the church of savagery. I got an update from one of them . There was a Holiday event last night and this mole said that there were about 200 people there. This person figured there was about 100 staff and 100 public. Forced Karaoke and dancing. Good food. No parking. There was no regging but there was little hints around for people to buy stuff from the Org. This person said that it was kind of like the chronic tone was fear with a social tone of about mild interest.
I figure that we are impinging and that they are toning things down so they maybe will try to use some ARC to get someone to stay around.
My wife and I have had several people from Canada who are reaching out for friendship to the Seattle independent group we have here.
Our stats are straight up and vertical!! Oh…sorry I got carried away there for a second.
My postulate is that our group of Pacific Northwest Indies grows to about 60-80 in the next year. We are at about 30-40 now.
Mat — maybe they are going to print $20 bills for the staff….
Good idea Jacob. Why dont you ask the church to broadly publish some stats (not the “potential square inches of delivery space that will be made available” or “square feet of cover cloth purchased to put on books sent to libraries.”)
At one point Bob Keenan could be found in his office studying WWII documentaries about Hitler. His explanation to public persons who knew about this: Hitler was brilliant and almost got it right. Stated emphatically. Was BK told by Miscavige to conduct this study? I have no idea but the Hitler/DM analogy is real enough to me. It seems plausible that BK was simply studying the same things DM had been studying. It is not unreal to me that DM would study Hitler while carefully taking notes….
My guess is C of $ made a deal with Kaiser Staff working at the Hospital across the street:Free parking, good for Kaiser, makes them look crowded.
You want their “Stats”? Not the hype—their *real* stats? Read here:
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/
A few of the critics have been busy, for years, gathering these–taken from Scientology’s own material they put out.
Would that be the BPI warehouse? Through the windows the offices look like they’re empty.
Probably abandoned.
LAPD impound will get around to them eventually 😉
Of course, a glossy building is required to produce the glossy promotion. Yeah sure this will take care of planetary dissemination. As if the why for a lack of expansion was not having that building.
I had to think about the Neutron Bomb analogy a little bit but yes, I can see that. It’s really not about expanding Scientology or making people free. The church has become some kind of a mafia cult.
Boyd,
Thanks for the info. Local control over what promo was wanted and needed was successful in the days of large orgs. NY org had, I believe, two printing presses. Only shooting boards would be sent out by Flag and one could print that or make and get locally approved your own promo. Orgs were different.
Back in the early 70’s the printer at NY Org was none other than George Pilat. He used to go out at night and find printing presses in the street to be sent to garbage and scavenge parts when he needed. But he kept the printers going even when FP was tight. Back then, my guess is, his morale was up because he was being productive and really doing his part in the group. But – back to promo. The local org, with a local ED, working to get people up the bridge and looking at applicable LRH policy knows what, when and how much of a promo item is needed.
I think if this is centralized you might only get to “shop” for what item you want and how many. I doubt there will be any local input. I would say it is quite hard to apply LRH policy written to be used locally when someone else entirely is making and designing all your promo.
National buttons are NOT always local buttons. I remember in the late 70’s or early 80’s seeing the promo out of Milano and some other Italian orgs. Some of their promo for the Purif, designed and printed locally, had topless ladies under a waterfall. It was not cheap looking. I would bet it met all Italian buttons and only seemed racey to Americans. These were some of the largest orgs in the world at the time. Running neck and neck only against Mighty Miami in the LRH Birthday game.
I won’t go into all the changes since that time. Promo is only part of it. Jeff would know more of all the promo changes. The entire org world changed with the finance police. I will related the speed of change as told me by someone from MM org. I believe this is all basically true. The finance police came into an org with about 230 staff, one of the two (with Milano) most successful orgs in the org. In 24 hrs the Finance Police has declared and/or expelled and removed from post every reg in Div 2 and Div 6, every, or almost every, exec who was a Div head or above and every Network person (Flag Rep, FBO and LC). This org has NEVER recovered to anything near its former glory. There may have been Financial Irregularities but there was still more right than wrong.
DM had either absolute or some control and input over the Finance Police. This according to Don Larson, the head of the Finance Police. If the creation of a centralized Dissem unit is anything like everything else his golden touch has been on, then we can expect more disaster.
I won’t go into the destruction of standard Management, evals, missions to orgs, individual org programs, individual org promo, playing the birthday game for LRH and all working on the purpose of making auditors and getting pc’s up to clear and on up the line.
I think I have said enuf here. I don’t know anymore about centralized promo.
Marty and Mike,
You shoulda let me know you were stopping by LA.
We could have hit the HOB or the Whiskey or something.
Did you guys check of the HI and the HGB?
As I remember the last time I was on HWB they never finished the endless renos at the HI for their spectacular “testing center” the “S” on the sign at HGB didn’t light up so it reads “cientology”. Maybe that’s fixed now.
CCI sorta looks like the Palace of Versailles just before the French Revolution with all the wrought iron in front to keep the peasants out.
Shoulda got a picture of that.
Maybe they should make the Complex into a Ghost Town Theme Park.
I get spooked every time I drive by it on Fountain!
Sheesh!!!
The place ain’t any thing like what it was when I did my Briefing Course there.
I guess Dave’s and his cohorts’ Neutron Bomb Strategy worked!
Practically no sign of life.
Sad when you remember what the place was like before that.
Oh well.
Time to build the Big Blue Memorial.
Go Tony, Go Tony, Go Tony…. Go, Go, Go Tony!
Tory, that site seems to have stopped updating @ 2006.
I’ve looked at it a couple times, but I wonder what happened.
Scientologists are waking up, slowly but surely. Several people who un-friended me a couple of months ago on FB because, well, I was on double secret probation (I guess), recently re-friended me with their ‘mea culpas’.
And if they’re going to use OSA trolls on this blog, don’t you think they should use people who can speak English? Just sayin’.
ML,
Songbird
Will I get photos of my adopted staff member and maybe a handwritten letter once in a while?
I too would like to see stats, but unfortunately we dont have access to them beyond our own observation and guessing.
It would be cool if someone would smuggle out a copy of all the Int stats for the last 10-20 years or so. That would really tell the undeniable story that I believe is true- that the real stats of Scientology are in a steady declin, despite the gimmicks and PR.
One thing you can look at is the No Report of stats. Major VFP stats are no longer reported at Int events that I am aware of. The closest they get to it is reporting a stat that is up for example, I recall Miscavige saying something about Flag having an affluence in TR’s & Objectives completions. Other than that, it seems like he skips over reports of real stats like auditors made and clears/OT’s made and replaces it with anecdotal stuff and reports of “Square Feet or Org Premises” or stuff about LRH books stacked end to end reaching the moon etc. Weird crap written by Dan Sherman that sounds like stats but really isnt.
Could Hitler and DM be the same thetan?
If not, could they have been dramatizing the same case phenomena?
I was just thinking about this same thing Tony.
I think the first target is COB. He’s got to go. Then I believe a lot of people will come to and begin to confront what has been going on.
Until Miscavige is handled we are one step behind start IMO.
Hell ya boiyyy!!
Ten plus years ago L. Ron Hubbard Way had people all the time. SO, public, criss crossing and walking all over the place with a lot of intention. It made me feel like there was life in Scientology. This video is sad.
The Promo building is scary. I mean, what tone level is that? Sharp angular edges. It just needs some of that razor fence and armed uniformed guards to complete the design.
Friday at around 4 pm, Pac. Friday at around 5 pm, Promo building.
After I posted I see that Marty said 5pm on Friday. That would normally be a thriving time of the day. There used to be people hanging around buildings. It was obvious the stats were heavily manipulated for PR purposes/events in the mid eighties. I never remember that when I worked in management or on LRH’s lines. PRing stats was just never anything someone thought about. If the stats were down, everyone would hear it. DM actually participating in booming the stats internationally when he was Action Chief during he WDC missions of 1979-1980. Problem is that was just a means to an end…to get power. Once he had power he was only interested in maintaining power, not improving stats. I think this video represents the calm before the storm.
DFB,
I disagree.
The tech is already being applied. That is an ongoing step and will increase as time goes on. The other steps I listed will unmock dm as they are applied. As the Indie field grows the less observant will be more and more able to see the truth.
Jacob,
Where would they get the stats with no bodies in the orgs? Oh, wait they just make them up!
Yeah, the “booming” affluence in the TRs/Obj. co-audit space at Flag isn’t new public though – it’s people who have already done them! Yet if Obj. co-audit hours in session are counted as Flag WDAHs then I’m sure that will be twisted to somehow show the HGC is “booming”, yet it’s people pulled from the HGCs to redo their Objectives – sick.
ROFL!
I drive by LRH Way when I happen to be in the area just to check it out, which really isn’t much anymore, but through the years since I have been out of the SO (2004), absolutely nothing has changed there, its still dead at all times I have checked it out, and this video is good proof of the scene there. This post reminds me of when I first joined the Sea Org in 2002. I was so excited to actually go to LA, and having spent most of my scientology time in fairly dead orgs, I expected LRH way to be exactly what it looked like in the WIS book, and the promo, and stories I heard. Lots of people auditing, training, the place absolutely hopping, so many people its bursting from the seams. I was unimpressed with the actual scene when I arrived, I could go into more detail, but that scene is what I remember LRH way. I also remember David Miscavige saying at a taped briefing to the staff of the San Francisco org during its grand opening, that he wanted the Orgs to be somewhere where people can go and hang out, and enjoy being there like read a book or something after work, it doesn’t look like that target has been reached yet.
I was here ten years ago. It was busier than now. They are the reason for my exit too.
Last July I walked down LRH way with Tory. I like her and I wish I had her nerve.
I was scared to walk down and back but by the time I was done the fear faded. If I come back one day I want to do it on my own.
I know it sounds stupid but that is how I was treated there in my exit and I let them.
I went though hell after that. It was the fall about this time or year. By the spring I bought a computer. One thing lead to another and even if I was afraid to read stuff because I was still so indoctrinated I slowly did and when I found the Freezone the lid came off for me. I saw Tory and the rest. She left about the same time I did.
It took me years to shake the indoc. I now mostly have for I am not working for reform of the church. I try to help the Venus Project be, because I saw the church was dead and not coming back. I had lost the people in it I cared about and they did not give one whit about me. One is still on LRH way as I asked after her. The other is at CC but I did not have the nerve yet to go there to try to talk though I did see it with Tory last July.
The other one is out and I see he is not who I thought he was and not one I want to hang with at this time. I am not into POT.
I agree with Tony – while we should keep exposing Mr. Missmanage, (Marty, and Mike do a great job at that, and we all should never let an opportunity go by to plant the seed of doubt in any Scientologist we meet ,even though I have to admit that I got a bit lazy and relaxed on this matter a few month after I left) we must, absolutely must put all attention on delivering the tech, be it green on white, or red on white, or some mixture, in whatever form !!
Thousands, hundreds of thousands of little or bigger groups, delivering the type of LRH, they like to deliver is the way out.
After all small groups, is what got SCN going in the first place.
DM, is NOT the target, scientologist who can and will not observe – or do observe but then ignore and not act ,are the reason DM can do what he is doing.
And that, does include all the Int guys in the hole!! No reason to worry about them or even help them – except IF the reach out of course.
No men can do anything to you ,you don’t want to have done to you – LRH
All attention must be on penetrating – which simply means help people – based on the HCOB “what is expect of a scientologist” (to me that was always people not yet in SCN and will stay that way as the ones who are IN – DO HAVE THE TECH – and are beyond help if they can’t help themselves ) !!
Love,
Helmut
Mat: I have a firsthand report that the Sea Org Missionaires at Dallas Idyllic Org have pressuring affluent parishioners in the Dallas area to provide moonlighting jobs for DIO staff.
No, the equal thetan is Stalin. He was way worse.
Hitler never threw his own trusted Aides under the Bus, Stalin not only did that but he killed them.
Tony
Agree with you fully.
Never stop dissemination to iron out legal.
Bypass the “retard” normally in charge of the activity and handle it personally.
We are booming, with real pc/pre-OT/ OT comps and real auditors being trained who can and will audit (without fear).
Some will handle ethics/legal (by nailing DM)
Most should just find or create a group they can trust and start building by helping people one on one.
It’s all coming together beautifully
It is only common sense that if a place is straight up and vertical that you will have lots of bodies in the shop and new people coming in and so forth. Visible body traffic would be a reliable indicator of how well an Org was doing. I really believe that is common sense.
I do believe that after being part of the cult of cabbage that people lose thier critical thinking abilities. That is because in the cult , to think for yourself and to look for out-points is penalized heavily..
I didnt mean for my “target” to supplant your first item. Your list is fine with me. I just think until Miscavige is handled things will obviously be harder. If he was ousted perhaps everyone would become independent, as it were.
Darn……..I didn’t realize that, but even if you only look from
2006—you can see the serious decline of completions.
The first time I saw the Briefing Course was in 1969, when there were 200 students on it.
Right before I left, I went into the BC to try to get help from the Supervisor for the Data Evaluators Course I was on, that my sup (and most of the students in the Academy) had no clue about.
This was in 2000. There were 4 students in the room. The Supervisor came over to me, sniffed my hair, said: “YOU have Scent in your Hair–_GET OUT!” I immediately wrote a KR to his senior on up to Dave the slave saying: You want to know why you USED to have 200 BS students and now you have 4?
Because this idiot “Supervisor” is totally rude, came sniffing my hair, and threw me out of his courseroom”.
Look at your org’s magazines that come out and count up how many releases, Clears or auditor completions there are (though most Class V orgs cannot actually deliver the CCRD and haven’t been able to for decades). The latest CC Int mag listed exactly zero Clears and a very small handful of grade and auditor completions. The last two local org mags I received (two different “Ideal” orgs, one which was declared St Hill Size not too long ago) had no Clears and maybe a dozen or so releases and about 5 auditor completions, at least one of whom I knew was staff.
Isn’t it the 1.5 who “wants to know just enough to destroy”?
Guess we know where whoever was dispatching the Finance Police was coming from….
What you experienced at CLO EUS was the same FLO Dissem experienced from Gold – true to the “New Era of Management” every unit replicated (and did the same) another unit was doing. There was NO creation of promo at FLO Dissem – only further processing (translating, pre-press, printing/shipping of what came “down” from Gold). There have been many “screamers” for local promo, local surveys – all those I know about have been muffled and silenced (routed out, declared, removed from post etc.).
There are way too many who KNOW with absolute CERTAINTY that the “promo” produced is NOT working, is outdated, crap, way too expensive, doesn’t produce any responses. Might be a bit too general but probably everybody on Dissem/Distribution lines below David Madman knows it’s not working. To DM it’s working, but he obviously has the opposite goal.
Tony, I agree with you. Scientology is now Independent and free again. The whole spectrum of the Tech has to be utilized in order to make it as Independent Scientology.
It’s not just the Tech tech as I have said on this blog many times.
Though it seems that I am inactive as an auditor (never trained as pro), I can tell I am a group auditor of some sort and as you all know “believe” (actually, the word is Know) that the Org Board IS the way. It’s the cycle of action. This is why LRH ALWAYS operated on an org board.
That we are scattered around the planet does not mean anything. We can still be better and more effectively organized. Like in Daniel’s case. We did it. We made the target. Name,want, get the product.
It’s not just the Admin Tech that is missing. In my opinion, the Mission Tech can also be used so that we flourish and prosper. There is a tremendous waste of people, mainly auditors who are inactive around the world. Like here in Greece for example, we got 2 auditors to come and audit. Max Hauri around 2002 and last year Ignazio Tidu. Ignazio had never audited in the Independent field before. I proposed it to him to come and audit us and get 1.000 euro from 3 people (low prices). He did and after that he took off as an auditor.
If such an auditor could stay here in Athens, for example, and create, create, create with the help of Independents, they would have a job and the field would flourish and prosper. It would not be the easiest thing but this is where you have the 3rd dynamic coming in. Helping that mission or running it directly. I am not saying to create another super-suppressive organization. No way. Scientology is Scientology and we know better than re-creating a monster made by DM.
But there is where you have some Admin and Mission tech to get people sent around where inactive Independents are and set up Academies and Indie Centers.
It takes auditors and administrators and missionaires to handle Case.
Imagine a team of people going to a place and booming it. Like Marty or Mike or Jim Logan with 3-4 auditors and Course Sups!!
I am just saying some names, OK? I am not saying those should be the people. But imagine such a Mission!!!!
And the funds??? Well, that is not a problem. I think the power that would emanate from such a Mission would get a lot more money than expected.
So, maybe we should consider the Mission Tech as our priority and with a somehow workable Org Board of some sorts start sending Indie Missions around. It would be fun!!!
4-5 people going around on each team. That would be really awesome. Establishing a center in the area and our legal department just making sure we can “EXIST” (Dept 20) with some sort of legal cover.
Basic things, basic actions. I am a theoritician, I know. But you might see me taking the streets and organizing a revolt here in Greece (haha) as the suppression and depression is too high.
And here in Greece for example even non Scientologists would now be interested in getting auditing since the times have changed and many people are in need of change. I believe it’s the same everywhere in the World. Those missions could be making a Tour of Europe or the U.S. and create an effect. It would take pioneers and those who are REALLY bored with their current life to man them up. But it can be done and more people will want to join the Missionary Unit. Hahaha!
So, I agree with you but the Org Board and Mission Tech need to be looked up and applied. LRH was instrumental in drawing up (creating) an org board, put people there, man it up for the purposes involved and rocket the stats. Or send missionaires who were of high caliber and again revert the situation and boom the stats.
An Org Board is a tool. Just a tool. Administrators are very important. but they need tech people to get the job done. And in our case we now also need missionaires.
DM covertly unmocks the Tech of Scientology. He is not an Administrator of Scientology organizations. He is a Dictator, like Hitler was. Marty’s analogy is correct. We can be administrators and those of us who are auditors and still want to audit can have a job and more auditors can be made this way.
And above all now, we need missions and people to man them up. That would be the most fun part, once again.
Karen,
Yes! And two more: False Stats and Suppression—the essence
of the “leaders” of C of $ now, for anyone lurking. If you doubt this…
that’s fine. Look, Read, Listen, make up your *own* mind 🙂
Hey good call, Jackie. That just may be what it’s for, although it sure looks fancy for a warehouse. I’ll have to go see it, live. Will report back—once I find it.
DFB..
Don’t forget the Flags, too. Ya gotta have Flags–to complete the full design
of suppression.
Mike,
Their mags are pretty much void of any actual Div IV comps such as actual auditors made and grades completed.
Pretty much all of them are for completing Div VI courses like the “Basics” which is really a basic engram.
I think they made five Class VIII’s in fifteen years.
Woo Hoo!!!!
Their grades comps aren’t as dismal though dismal enough because currently they’re quickying them.
Meaning its really a false stat.
However one graph that is telling is the Clear stat which is less than half what it was almost twenty years ago.
I mean the current regime has done the impossible and actually brought a *cumulative* stat down!
Well done guys!
Sheeesh!!!
Tory, let me start by saying that I admire who you are and what you do.
But I was on lines at AOLA the first half of this year and it is not dead. I wish it were, but it is not. Steady flow of students and PCs. Not a tremendous flow, but a steady flow. And AO was routinely completing around 12 – 15 people on Solo I, Solo II and various OT levels each week while I was there.
I would love to see the church collapse completely, RIGHT NOW, but my direct personal observation is that is is not ready to die just yet. Unfortunately. Too much truth underlying the alter-is and BS.
– Ron Matlock
As the Christian Scientists have shown us, a dying organisation can still stretch things out a few years if it’s got sufficient income (from any source – bequests, etc) and a few big buildings. The film clips you’ve shown over the past couple of days – Seattle included – and the dox on Extras show an organisation that’s on its last legs. But seriously; how much longer do you see it surviving like this – 20 years? 30?
Tony, spot on thinking.
In addition to being a fulltime professional, I am solo auditing each day, studying LRH each day, and working to help and debug other independents as they move up the Bridge.
Leading by example, as we all should be doing.
– Ron Matlock
Waste? Nah, you must have got that wrong – DM hates MEST, he told us so in his “special message to all scientologists” 11/09/2001: he talks about “the social veneer of materialism”, and “…where happiness was defined by the buck, and if that didn’t bring happiness (and it never has), then just take a mood-altering pill.” [Maybe a slug of finest Scotch would do just as well].
He goes on to say with mind-blowing arrogance: “The public knows other religions have failed” His Why? “…one by one they became involved in war themselves”. Lucky he hasn’t made that mistake with CofS!
Interestingly, in 2001 he was at least paying lip service to actual production stats: “It takes numbers to perform the role of a Scientology Church. Lots of auditors. Lots of Supervisors. Lots of people to lecture and provide introductory services…”
Hey guys
has anybody an idea why LRH is not comming back and cutting DM´s head off? I mean something like a danger formula……..
DM had all the orgs drop the BIS GDS, he replaced it with BIG (Bodies In the Ground). Seriously though, out of the hundreds of Scn’ers I have know for many years, too many have died for me to keep track of. Not old either. Compared to the hundreds of non-scn, only one person due to a freak accident…
Songbird,
I’d like to see some English speaking trolls for a change as well. Not that there anything wrong with the trolls that speak other languages.
GB,
First they will get rid of staff to save money on salary and food. Some staff will remain to serve DM. Then they will need to sell buildings to get rid of bills and pay for DM luxuary. Then the orgs will go one by one, Malmo, Berlin, Tampa and so on, all will be sold. Finally the big ones will go, Flag, Freewinds etc. This is my prediction. For DM it’s a matter of dreaded costs and potential income while destroying Scientology.
Godwin’s law is probabilistic and states an asymptotic behaviour. In other words, one instance of talk of Hitler or Nazis does nothing to prove nor disprove Godwin’s law. Go to the back of the class.
Words of wisdom, Helmut.
Davey should be kicked out way before he can waste all the property paid for by Scientologists. Non organized independent Orgs won’t be able to get proper training, handle their pc’s, recruit new ones and send finished products upline, nor maintain the buildings. LRH has dedicates half a lifetime to organization and a whole lifetime to bridging an awareness gap, so it doesn’t make sense to just leave it all uncontrolled and without flowchart. Much better to do a standard eval and reorganize in line with the successful policy that has proven itself for 20 years. It was abandonment of that policy that got us into this mess, not a smart thing to repeat.
Judging by the sun when they turn west on Franklin, it looks like about 4:30 PM.
Yes, it is dead, but that is mid-course and mid-production time and not a time you would expect many people on LRH Way. 6:30 – 6:45 would give you a better idea.
I recently spoke to an old friend that is staff at LA, someone whose integrity I hold in great regard, and he claimed that they were busy.
Whoops, missed that you had answered the time question.
Valkov,
Agreed. And per the Tech Dictionary def Hate: around 1.5 on the tone scale affinity has almost reversed itself. Its dissonance has become hate, which can be violent and is so expressed. Here, actually, we have a factor of entheta repelling theta (SOS.) Now, I wonder where else we have seen this displayed, hummm…
Martin,
Yeah, guess I needed some coffee. How could I have missed that. Thanks for correcting me so gently. Pronto!
Tory,
That building in South Africa, do you mean The Castle Conference Centre in Kyalami? It was slated to become AO AF. When it was bought, there were announcements that all functions scheduled to be held there after a certain date were canceled and it would be church only stuff thereafter.
Well, that was a few years ago. And just last week my girlfriend attended a corporate function at The Castle. And it was business as usual. The only stuff going on there was the same Conference stuff that has always been going on there for years.
I know of no other large building in SA associated with the church.
Evan, I have to hand it to you, adding an initial for a last name shows your way more creative than Jacob, Jim and Kris. Having said that, why dont the four of you, or you and your 3 other identities, take libs, and just keep on going. You have no future in the church or in this blog until your independent. Good luck.
Hey, check this out. DM produced a video by Army of Lovers call Nutron Bomb. At least, this must be a DM production. It reminds me of the BE movie.
‘
ML Tom
Yes, it seems they were doing some good work and then stopped for some reason.
I had a problem at Flag like that. I had an all natural shampoo with real scent, I think real strawberry in it. Very light scent, I dont even think you could smell it other than it was made with strawberry. I had to throw it out. I said I thought that PL was about artificial fragrances and perfumes but it didnt matter.
Some people interpret (misintrepret) that PL to mean no odors or scents at all and I dont think thats what he meant.
He was talking about perfumes and artificial stuff.
Well Tony, I just assume that my org is failing and that other orgs are where the action is at. Maybe in Europe somewhere. I’m sure Scientology is booming somewhere.
“I also remember David Miscavige saying at a taped briefing to the staff of the San Francisco org during its grand opening, that he wanted the Orgs to be somewhere where people can go and hang out, and enjoy being there like read a book or something after work, it doesn’t look like that target has been reached yet.”–Kris
Yeah, it would be nice if Orgs were like this. Unfortunately the reality is one is pressured to go on course. To be fair, Christian “cafes” designed to give Christians a place to hang out on weekend evenings also are heavy handed on delivering the message and creating an atmosphere of anxiety, the exact opposite of what the concept was created for. The difference between Scientology and Christian Churches is perhaps Scientology courses cost money.
Ah well, perhaps you are correct, in the strictest sense, seeing as the discussion began with the Hitler comparison and therefore we are not referring to a limiting condition; but I was more using Marty’s entire blog history as the dataset.
In that case, according to the corollaries of the Law, this debate is officially “lost”. (And you just lost the game).
That said, a valid argument could perhaps be made that we are discussing a totalitarian organization and such comparisons are permissible, though I might not choose architecture as the opening salvo.
I always worked in areas of division six (cept when spying or going off on Missions to Orgs) LRH even said – Division 6ers are different. And we were and the people who wanted to try new things or think out of the box were the ones that were drawn there. It has been personally tragic for me to see all that the office of CS-6 created, and kept running and working very well dismantled brick by brick.
Many missions did better than ORGs, those of us in the Office of CS6 wanted to find out what the missions were doing, that the orgs could use and become larger themselves. I know of several missions that did their Finncial Planning based on Value of Services Delivered – brilliant. It takes the entire org to accomplish that. Income can be made by one person. I am so grateful to have been able to work with the Vibrant Field we had back then. I know the people that were there, starting with mission holders were the first line of attack. Management dug their feet in – that the reason Missions did better is because they were damaging Orgs. A why they held on to till all the brightness and fun of Division 6 (or 6-9) were just gone.
And now to know it is all gone is such a tragedy for all and such a personal, very personal death for me. nancy
♫ Christmas Song ♫
Sung by David Miscavige When He’s Alone:
‘Tis the lifetime to be nasty
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
Hone my skills at being a bastard
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Build the shrines with hoodwinked money
fa la la la la la, la la laaaaah
Fill them up with Hollywood extras
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Duped parishioners keep on giving
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
Give them trophies and shiny medals
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Stuff the Hole with broken rivals
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
See them flinch when I punch and choke them
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Cut their comm lines and steal their children
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
Betray their trust using confidential folders
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Laugh at everyone waiting for three swings
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
Wreck the tech I have happily altered
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah ♫
Hide the real stats and come up with fake ones
fa la la la la la, la la laaaaah
Revel in the emptiness of my empty buildings
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
My twisted mind I’m so good at hiding
fa la la la la, la la la laaaaah
Maybe Tom will get me in a movie
fa la la la laaah, la LA LA LAAAAAAAAAH!!! ♫ ♫ ♫
This may become true for Tom cruise
No problem DFB.
I understand what you are saying and I agree with the point that it is a bit slower at first.
My point is that the postulate is that we just bypass the psycho. We already have and it is just gaining more and more momentum. It is a postulate that is starting to form in the physical universe. The more we all postulate it and act on the postulate the faster it will show in the physical universe and the more we do it the easier it will be for the timid and non-observant to see that we are all doing the right thing.
That’s great Theo!!
I like the idea of some competent people going around doing tours. I could see that. Lets say each city had a group forming and then a tour of auditors came by and audited a few people in the area or do workshops on how to flourish and prosper or something. That would be cool and I think it fits with what is needed and wanted.
The more people that are out of the church and the more people delivering the tech, the more it will overwhelm dm until he finally gets the motivator that he has been craving. He wants us to unmock him so let us help him by doing that.
That’s great Ron!!
What area are you in?
I’ve got, IMHO, a brilliant idea for the current CO$ to make some serious money without having to make much, if any, costly changes to implement. It wouldn’t even be, are you ready for this, a “no exchange” service.
Here it is….
Advertise the Intl. Hemet base as a weightloss spa. Running around trees, running everywhere you go, cleaning out sesspools, no rich, fattening foods, no way to get out and cheat on your diet because you are locked in 24/7. You get the idea…guaranteed results.
Lil Davey, I want a kick back on this one.
Marsha Pearlman Sorensen
Marty,
I am not sure if my comment is relative to this post but I think you will find it relative to your blog and I hope you publish it where you see fit or at least respond to me directly.
Since early this year, as a result of being directed to the St Pete Times article and the Freedom Mag’s rebuttal – by an OSA terminal for my opinion – I have been following your blog.
Even though I had been prompted (surprisingly) by an OSA terminal to read the Times article, I reluctantly read parts of it and watched bits and pieces of the videos of you and Amy – all the while fearing that I was committing an overt just by reading and watching.
Initially, as an average public, I really didn’t have an understanding of the magnitude of the roles you and the others in the articles had in the church. Nor did I have the confront to allow myself to really look right then and there. I mean it was all kind of unreal and unpalatable. So, “not having time” to get into all the controversy I shrugged it off that you guys were just some disaffected staff that decided to go to the media with fabricated lies.
And, of course, my first stance was to defend the church. Thinking anyone who would say something negative about the church and especially go to the media must be a suppressive criminal.
Ironically enough it wasn’t until after I read the Freedom Mag’s follow up to the Truth Rundown that I became curious and started to suspect that something was seriously wrong internally with the church.
Without going into all the details of what ensued in the following months, I’ll summate by saying that I kept having nagging thoughts that prompted me to look further so I did just that – I continued to LOOK. As you probably can guess, my awareness level and tone level regarding the situation in the church fluctuated and arose.
The funny thing was that the subject matter of discussion in many of the blog entries e.g., Basics, Ideal Orgs, False Stats, Clear invalidations, Programming OT’s down the Bridge, Crush Regging, Class V orgs not really expanding etc. were all things I had already wondered about over the years and not-ised
I realized that since 1996 that the way I was able to keep my blinders on and keep thinking that the Emperor had beautiful clothes was self inval and reasonableness. I just kept invalidating my knowingness with “oh you are just nattering and you have overts”. Hah…I did have overts of doubting my own knowingness and invalidating my ability to observe what was in front of me and not doing something about it.
Which brings me to the next phase, I want to take responsibility and do something really effective about the scene within the church.
I admire the courage that you and the other independents have shown -despite personal danger – by speaking out and putting the data on the line for the public to evaluate for themselves. Likewise, I feel that the majority of the current SO members, staff and public – even though misguided – are well intentioned and dedicated to the freeing of mankind, just as you were as a misguided SO member and now as a more aware independent.
Despite all the data that has been exposed on this blog and the amount of well intended individuals involved (on both sides) what still concerns me is that there is still a conflict. And that conflict is not resolving which gives me a gnawing feeling that there is an unseen 3rd party.
As I understand it, a somewhat similar conflict occurred in the 80’s between management, top execs, mission holders, OT’s and other public. And although the 80’s conflict was not as well publicized as the one in PT, many great tech terminals and public were lost and splinter groups ensued then vanished all resulting in the current church management.
What is to keep the same cycle from happening again and the tech being altered more and lost for eternity?
Is this PT battle just late on the chain of events?
I’m sure the well intentioned no matter what camp they are in don’t want the tech to be lost as a casualty of war.
I have lots of questions.
How do I reach you or someone who can answer?
Seeking-As-Isness
Hi Marty, some recent news from Italy. Two more italians have just joined the indipendents and I’ve just found out that my dear friend Paolo Coccoda who was up to recent times holding the HAS FSSO post, has been RPFed. I told him in advance that it was going to be his route, but didn’t believe me. Too bad! Sharron Webber after a tour to Milano and Brescia to dead agent me, hasn’t been very successful either and is sliding down on the same route. I’m sorry, but don’t feel much sadness about it all.
Marty and Mike, great video. Talk about a “ghost town”…the video shows it all.
Ron,
Ok, thanks for that! It’s still *way* smaller than it used to be in the days of huge expansion. Once Dave-the-slave destroyed the Missions, C of $ has never ~really~ recovered. This I observed back when I was “in”.
I agree it’s not ready to die right yet, and frankly, I personally don’t think it will die. I believe, as do many of my friends who used to be “in”, it’ll just move along, as it is now, and less each year. The more people have access to FACTS and Experiences, the less they’re willing to cough up the HUGE $$$ to do it there. “Too much truth underlying the alter-is and BS” is spot on. As I’ve said for years, they are destroying themselves.
Ron,
Ok, thanks for that! re C of $: It’s still *way* smaller than it used to be in the days of huge expansion. Once Dave-the-slave destroyed the Missions, C of $ has never ~really~ recovered. This I observed back when I was “in”.
I agree it’s not ready to die right yet, and frankly, I personally don’t think it will die. I believe, as do many of my friends who used to be “in”, it’ll just move along, as it is now, and less each year. The more people have access to FACTS and Experiences, the less they’re willing to cough up the HUGE $$$ to do it there. “Too much truth underlying the alter-is and BS” is spot on. As I’ve said for years, they are destroying themselves.
splog,
Ok, perhaps I have incorrect info. Certainly *I* have not been there,
so I’ll take your report as the most recent, thanks!
The info I had was from a year ago, or more, and they said Sea Org were bustling, building *something*. Sounds like one more skeleton building. They seem to specialize in that, these days. 🙂
DFB.
Exactly! Mine was “natural” also, which was what ticked me off, even more. They’ve nuked out on scents, for years now. One more delight re being “out”. I love smells!~ 🙂
disinfected,
LA Org “busy”? No offense to your friend, but LA Org hasn’t been busy since they renovated it, years ago. I know, I used to do Bk One Seminars to TRY to get new people “in”. It never happened. I’d get them to the seminar, train them, no one was there to reg them onto a course.
Anyone still “in” will see it as busy: A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest”. He’s still “in”, isn’t he? I rest my case.
To anyone lurking: Bail while you still can!~:)
Martin,
When I read Dave’s message, I hear what they told me when I was on OT 7, and my husband was OT 8: DM was Pissed! Why? Because these OT’s he felt he’d “made” were out starting businesses (MEST Businesses) vs. “Joining the Sea Org OR Starting a Mission—both which He expected from the OT 8’s”. (Of course he didn’t factor in that most were BROKE from donating thousands, some millions while on those levels). One they were REALLY pissed about were 2 OT’s/FSM’s who started a Cigar Shop. How dare they! LOL…..”It takes numbers to perform a role of a Scientology Church. Lots of auditors. Lots of Supervisors”..etc. All fits with his message I was told.
Barney, I agree.
It was Stalin’s policy to destroy or have killed anyone who might be a threat or rival to him. He would elevate a person in status and popularity for a while, then betray and denounce them. He used people to achieve specific objectives, then disposed of them.
The movie “Burnt by the Sun” illustrates the process Stalin used very well.
Mr. Ratbhun:
Spending your life criticizing one individual exclusively, meaning the head of your former church David Miscavige give you a degree of incredibility that most people find pleasing.
Just so you know.
Some years ago (mid 90’s) Georgiana of RTC, DM & Shelly’s personal Steward got the Canteen at the Int base to carry Aveda products at good prices. It made it easier for her to buy those products. http://www.aveda.com/
This line is not “rose-perfumed” but has a slight smell after being rinsed out of whatever natural ingredient used were.
Tory, I pieced the timeline together (just the bits I know of) and IIRC the castle was bought circa 2005. There was a huge bullaballoo at the time, lots of speculation, and some “insider info” given to “special Scientologists” (aka anyone who showed up for IAS fund raising) that it would be the AO. I had the bit about my girlfriend wrong – she wasn’t at the conference herself but colleagues were and no-one mentioned anything out of the ordinary. The Castle is a very well known venue, the kind of place where major work would be noticed and commented on. Yet there was none.
There might be another venue that your contact is talking about. We should get more facts. Unlucky for us, I can’t walk in myself and ask – “subtle departure” isn’t in my playbook 🙂
It looks like they just slapped a facade on the old Bandini warehouse in Commerce. That says it all – facade. Typical of Miscavige to think that a printing warehouse is a “Dissemination Center.” What matters is printing machines and stock shelves, not writers or editors or designers or lecturers. They “centralized” marketing, then got rid of it, sucked the life and people out of it. Now all they have left is ineffective mailings, ineffective websites, failed releases.
Folks…..folks……though I have been told that my home Org is NOT doing well, and recently I saw hardly anyone leave the Pasadena Org at lunchtime on a Saturday….well, having said that, you really can’t judge AO/ASHO “indoor traffic” by folks hanging out on LRH Way during service hours. I was on the BC for a few years, and…how do I put this….one really does NOT want to hang out/be visible as the IAS reges walk the street looking for folks who can make a “briefing” and/or just a quick chat. Hi, what’s your name? What service are you on? Great. What’s your IAS status? Have you heard about flowing just $25 a month as a regular occurring credit card charge? How do you support yourself while being on course in the daytime? “That’s it. Post your points…..” and the charge begins towards one’s car before there’s a hallway muster or other briefings. So, yeah, the time to judge LRH Way is about 6:15 or so and then at 6:55 when Fdn students are running into the bldg.
Oh, fifteen minutes a day max. You see I’m auditing OTs daily; that is actually how I spend the bulk of my time.
I think I’ve pretty well covered this throughout the close to 450 2-3 page posts (closing in on 1500 pages) on this blog. Have you read from the beginning? I get from the question you have not.
Hey Derek!
Congratulations then.
That is something the Church of Scientology apparently has not yet been able to pull off.
If the promo is handled like the books they will decide how much promo your org gets. You should be getting out that promo. If you got out 1000 last week they will send 2000 so you can be in affluence and then 3000 next week. The Promo- Sent -to -Orgs -I/C stats will be up and they can say millions of promo has gone out even though it’s just sitting in the orgs basements.
I am sure that those cars are likely parishioners, well some of them; ever since LRH Way was paved, the parking lot is also used by people who live in the apartments/condos along LRH Way because no one can park on the street anymore. The church agreed to have them park in the parking lot. But still the parking lot is pretty damn empty even with the residents using that space. When I was around it was so packed I would have to park 2-3 blocks away and walk. Sometimes I’d have to park up Edgemont by Barnsdall Park and walk down the street to get on course.
Someone posted a video that caught my attention “open your eyes” … well here’s another!
Who needs central marketing when you have Tom Cruise as your spokesmodel? I mean that guy’s infallible, right? Who wouldn’t want to become a Scientologist just so that they can be more like Tom Cruise? Has anyone seen his biceps?
Lurker,
Thank you for your participation. If you would read through past pages of this blog you will see the Mr. Rathbun (cute spelling you made there – I presume it wasn’t a typo, either it was intentional or as ordered to type) isn’t the main person posting. Nor if you view the times of postings is he continually posting.
I would take from your comment that you did not like some of the facts and observations Mr. Rathbun has made. Let’s first clear up some words here and put them to good use.
Definitions: “Criticism is the judgement of the merits and faults of the work or actions of an individual or group by another (the critic). To criticize does not necessarily imply to find fault, but the word is often taken to mean the simple expression of an objection against prejudice, or a disapproval.
Another meaning of criticism is the study, evaluation, and interpretation of literature, social movements, film, arts, and similar objects and events. The goal of this type of criticism is to understand the work or event more thoroughly.”
Now lets review what LRH has to say about this. In HCOPL 26 April 70R Data Series 1 wherein he states “SANITY IS THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE DIFFERENCES, SIMILARITIES AND IDENTITIES. This is also intelligence.” …”People who annoy one with such ‘weird’ solutions do not know certain differences. Thoughts are infinitely divisible into classes of thought. In other words, in thought there are certain wide differences which are very different indeed. A FACT is something that can be proven. An OPINION is something which may or may not be based on any facts. Yet a sloppy mind sees no difference between a FACT and somebody’s opinion.” … “A vast number of people see no difference at all in FACTS and OPINIONS and gaily accept both or either as having equal validity.”
HCOPL 11 May 1970 Data Series 2 LOGIC therein states “there are 5 primary ways for a relay of information or a situation to become illogical: 1. Omit a fact. 2. Change sequence of events. 3. Drop out time. 4. Add a falsehood. 5. Alter importance. These are the basic things which cause on to have an incorrect idea of a situation.”
I read the posting and watched the videos. What is not true in them? While you are at it explain how the COB of RTC is the head of the Church. He is not the President of CSI, nor is he ED Int. If he is bypassing them where is the Danger Declare, in which case he would take over the post and issue orders from that post. When I looked at the org board and structure published in the early 80’s by Int Mgmt, they did not have the post of COB as the head of any Church. The group of Scientology that has members is the IAS and I don’t see where the Chairman of the Board of RTC is over that. In fact, can you enlighten me as to who the other members are to make up a “board” that he is the chairman of. What is your LRH reference that makes DM the head of the Church, whom you purport is being criticized.
Is it true that a building, built with the the S and double triangle on its facade, has been completed for some time and is this building slated to be for Dissem purposes? Why wouldn’t security personnel be able to state this fact if it is true? Were there people in front of LA org, ASHO, AO and around the Pac Base complex that were edited out of the film?
I find a degree of CREDIBILITY on the part of Mr. Rathbun, with the posting of valid true data, observations and when it is his opinion it is written as opinion and not as fact. This is in following LRH’s procedure as outlined in the Data Series. If you have not as yet read and drilled on the Data Series, then I might suggest adding this to your study cycle. It is well worth it, especially with lots of drills to actually be able to think in a logical fashion. Thinking as LRH outlined in the data series results in correct and rational decisions and outcomes.
I would like the answer is facts and not opinion, please. Just so you know.
Nancy,
I remember those heady days with CS 6’s thinking outside the box. Those actions worked. They can, and will, work again. This independent field is an example.
Seeking,
I’m at slogan@eastlink.ca.
I am a Scientologist. I’ll answer your questions by directing you to the applicable facts and materials. Tons of questions have been dealt with on this blog, the Scn Cult site, Friends of LRH site.
I like the idea of seeking as-isness.
Jim Logan
I don’t get your point.
Greetings everyone,
This is my first post on Marty’s blog. After being stroked by the ‘church’ of Miscavige for far to long, and for far too much of my money, it is time for me to step forward and declare my Independent status publicly. The ‘church’, as I wanted to know it, is dead. Currently there is only the sheep following the tyrants who are left running what was once a great institution. Sadly, the ‘church’ will never achieve what was expected. David Miscavige singlehandedly saw to that by being a detriment to everything that was good and right and by becoming a billionaire in the process of hijacking said ‘church’. In making this declare I am also asserting my constitutional rights to life liberty and happiness, far be it for any agent of the ‘church’ to attempt to personally cause me any discomfort. From this day forward I will be the captain of my own destiny, free from any encumbrances attempted to be placed on me by the ‘church’. I am now officially an Independent Scientologist that disavows any association with David Miscavige’s ‘church’ of Scientology, this includes any criminals that conspire to help David Miscavige further his cause. I am free.
Laura Lee Guhrke
Marty,
Admittedly, I have not read every single post, only about 70%. What I’ve understood from what I have read and seen so far is that alot of people (including myself) are upset about the past and current scene e.g. injustices, out tech and no VFP’s. I understand that there are some trained individuals delivering in the field and that more and more people are leaving the church daily. Some who have the intent to continue practicing Scientology freely in the field, some are just lurking waiting to see what will happen and some who are getting out all together.
However, honestly I am not certaint that an independent movement will ensure that we will not have a repeat of the 80’s which as I undestand it, gave us the current management and scene.
From my viewpoint, I asked a valid heartfelt question and perhaps from yours I should have read through each and every post and comment before addressing you directly with the question.
If you’d kindly direct me to the name of the post that answers my concern I’ll be on my way.
Seeking-As-Isness
So if there is a particular post(s) that detail how we can assure that the same outcome or worse that happened in the 80’s will not be the result of this let me know.
LOL………….
I want to take responsibility and do something really effective about the scene within the church.
What do you have in mind?
Theo,
That’s a great idea.
My target is to get about 20-30 independents together in the next months.
Then I would like to organize an little event and invite MM, Tony and MOQ near a lake and the we all go fishing together.
You surely have a better GO BUTTON for them as you can offer the greeks seas, the isles and tons of fish.
Perhaps we should come down there !
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Whose Derrick.?
Hi Seeking,
I want to welcome you and thank you for your write up. Well done for having the courage to LOOK.
Regarding having questions. This is fine, ofcourse. There is alot to read online to get filled in. Marty’s Blog, Scientology-Cult and there is an interesting Chronology on the Freezone Website. Then there is a site which I just found http://sc-i-r-s-ology.com/veritas/secret/index.htm that you may find interesting.
Then you can always post a question here and get answers too.
Looking forward to your contribution.
Co$ aesthetics – from graphic design to the staging of events and now to architecture – have always been a huge turn off. The look is distinctly facist in a Disney meets the Third Reich kind of way. It may sound silly, but I was so repulsed that it proved to be a major stumbling block for me getting into Scientology.
Bravo, OTDT.
Plant. Plant. Plant.
I count 5 at least posting in response to this article.. Your putting forth the largest word count. OSA directing you to the St. Pete Times article so you can weigh it for yourself, and then after reading the Freeedom article you think somethning is wrong with the church. Then you want to know how to reach out to someone who can answer. Those are just the highlights.
The churches greatest and most often witnessed causualty is the truth itself.
That is great news Notsaware!!
Keep up the good work and let us know of other good news from Sicily and Italy and Corsica.
Laura Lee,
Welcome to the Independents!
Jeff,
On google of this subject, there is actually a big build up of the facilities using millions of slush funds.
YT of Dear Leader’s hype of facilities including uncomparable “stats” DM style:
Printing field articles: http://www.inplantgraphics.com/article/the-church-scientology-so-pleased-well-its-digital-book-printing-operation-has-worked-out-open-another-in-plant-one-large-sheetfed-web-offset-presses-414431/1
http://whattheythink.com/news/47492-church-scientology-relies-heidelberg-facility-la/
It does appear that those Commerce facilities can crank out and regurgitate tons of Golden Age alter-ised dreck, and Nat Geo quality IAS magazines. having to have all hands and calling/regging at all hours to empty their warehouse. Then again perhaps all the books are needed to fill the shelves in new empty Idle Org bookstores. Seems like a waste of perfectly good trees.
Tory, as I said, this is a person I think very highly of when it comes to integrity. Former mission holder, very successful businessman, OT, raised a family, and now back on staff at LA. I have known this person for 30 years and when I asked him about the state of the org, I knew I was going to get a straight answer. I was hinting a “Idle Orgs” without, of course, using that term. He said that there were plenty of people on course. His suggestion to me was that I undertake a little project and visit a few orgs before coming to any final decision vis-a-vis continuing in the Church. I will probably do that.
You know, driving by outside orgs when everyone is known to be inside and asserting that that proves anything is naive at best.
All due respect, Tory, but I do not think you can speak to how busy the org is in PT. That is why I went to someone that could. That and a few other questions.
Loki,
Wow, are saying I am a plant??? I didn’t know that I had to keep my word count to a min to be considered a real seeker of the truth.
I mean I really didn’t expect to be attacked for asking a question that expressed my concern in making sure that we are not just repeating what happened in the 80’s and then jeopardize the tech for all of mankind. I mean I would expect that kind of reaction if I went into the org and started asking questions but not here.
Not only that, but they spent Lord knows how much money on computerizing the addresso/CFs, including a ridiculous number of phone calls to “confirm” current address information. After spending all that money, they cannot get or keep the addresses straight. At one point I had the mail of a half dozen other people coming to me, along with multiple issues under my maiden and married names. To add to the mess, they cannot seem to use the computer system to send me targeted mailings — i.e. I am pre-OT, yet I get mailings intended for newbies. Its nuts, a terrific waste of money and all I ever do is go through the mail and toss out all my Church mailings along with the other junk mail. Nowadays they only send to my email and I get at least 10 – 20 emails a day from orgs all over the world for events that I cannot possibly even attend and for services I have already done and for books I have owned for years. Such waste. Such terrific waste of personnel and materials.
One of those who see,
Thanks for your kind response and the link it looks pretty meaty and that it will give me some more background and answers.
Slight?? Oh God, Sinar, it used to make me gag. I only bought it once because it was the “cool” RTC shampoo to use, or when it was the only one available at the moment in the Canteen and I needed shampoo. It was horrid. Made me wonder why COB and Co. insisted on doing things LRH would not have wanted. Would he have wanted that smell in his environment? Not at all. Just another way of making little of LRH and taking over more control.
What I have in mind – which may sound naive and laughable to some that already have the answers – is find out why and who is really responsible for the current scene in the church. You know a little KRC.
I have the notion that the complete truth will bring about an as-isness that doesnt’ take months or years. Don’t get me wrong, I can see that Davey has a big nasty hand in the out tech and abuses – but I suspect that his hand is being controlled elsewhere. Otherwise, wouldn’t all the pages of reports on this site and others regarding the church and Davey already served its purpose?
Jim,
Thanks for your reply. I will take you up on your offer and email you instead of posting on the blog.
It is laughable, but it is also very degrading to those staff members who are living on handouts–even being encouraged to expect it. Now they truly do not have to get any production or help get their fellows to produce. They will get more and more demoralized and zombie-like and controllable. All part of the plan, I guess. I’m sure they are all zooming up the Bridge in leaps and bounds too….white flour noodles are great for sessionability. WAKE UP, YOU CLASS V ORG GUYS!!!!
Hi Laura,
Welcome!! Would love to hear more of your story, if you feel like giving details.
Bravo!
I love it LO!!
I don’t know if you are still under the radar but can you say where you are from so I know where I would be going?
This is exciting!!
Laura Lee, Welcome!you certainly are the “Captain” of your own destiny. Well done.
Seeking-As-Isness could be an OSA troll yet could be genuine. I base my judgment on what he does. If he now studies up on the various blogs (Marty, Steve, Jeff, books from Amy, Mark, Jeff) and sorts it out for himself he’s genuine. If he continues to ask for explanation after explanation, he’s a troll.
I think it is naive to think that it won’t take months or years. That is but a wink in the scheme of things. The answer to your last question is, no there is quite more truth on the subject that warrants sunlight.
He used to post more often. Intelligent guy sort of watching the scene from the weeds.
Theo
Interesting that you should bring this up.
Just yesterday my wife and I were discussing this concept of having tech, ethics, and admin, “missions” that could be available to be invited by a group, to assist it, get it set up, debug, do qual actions, or whatever.
We were not thinking of starting such a thing ourselves (sorry, not qualified) but as a potentially valuable service that could be provided by the appropriate terminals.
Perhaps one difference in where we went with this was that we were thinking more in terms of having these “missions” invited and not sent.
One thing that I personally have been considering is providing some kind of internet “ethics” services for “Indie” Scientologists.
Ethics is one of my favorite technologies because it has everything to do with a being “taking his life back”, and I must confess I get a big thrill out of watching and helping that happen.
WW
you noted: “However, honestly I am not certaint that an independent movement will ensure that we will not have a repeat of the 80′s which as I undestand it, gave us the current management and scene.” If you are looking for certainty, you’ll never get a sane one till you are free of the Miscavige implanting you clearly have received. I don’t know anyone, and I mean anyone anywhere, who “understand”s it like you do here – other than DM. So, no there is not individual post (s) that will do it. Start from the beginning and come forward. Then ask specific, informed questions – not David Miscavige hypotheticals based on invented “understandings”.
Hi Laura Lee! Congratulations.
There should be a law about people who bring up these dumb laws that people made up. You forgot about Occam’s razor. What about Occam’s razor. Can’t they both go down at the same time?
Do you have to be a professor to make a law or can I make one?
Samuel, you are wise.
Laura Lee Guhrke,
Welcome to the BIG space, Laura! Plenty of room to expand out here.
Thanks for the links Sinar. Very informative. According to one of the linked articles “the new plant is set to open in the February-March time frame” (2010, that was).
Seeking-As-Isness,
Your answer is scatter through the blog. There are several posts with the LRH references noted on Nov 29, 2010 posting Radical Scientology Dark Ops. LRH did an eval called Snow White and the following is quoted from that eval.
“WHY: By spreading false reports a cumulative file can be built in their own and other countries which then tend to act on the file without the presence of the real data which is factually good but which is then ignored.”
“SECONDARY WHY: The tendency or habit of police and immigration agencies to act secretly on record data without further advice, thus making a hidden third party situation.”
===
If you read that whole post you will find several long posts explaining what false reports and false data being acted upon has in relation to a third party situation. I think if you look at any conflict you perceive in PT from that viewpoint you will come to a new understanding.
There are multitude accounts of false data, lies, alteration of LRH bulletins, books and policies. Even the false idea that someone not in total agreement with current actions, lets say for IAS or Ideal Building dono’s, is treated as disaffected. The false data then is the person may really be an SP so people are being forced to disconnect their comm lines from a “disaffected” person. We are not talking about an SP stopping your gains on the bridge. We are talking about a free thinking being who happens to disagree with what DM wants done.
Please note Snow White concept in PT – the tendency or habit of acting secretly on file data, even if not true and doesn’t match current good deeds, and this is creating a hidden 3rd party situation.
Same thing in the 80’s. Tell lies, blame the mission holders, blame anyone else – then declare, expell, RFP or denagrade whomever speaks up that this is in violation of specific named LRH policies. The finance police under DM didn’t care. A hidden 3rd party situation was created.
Yes, Marty is correct is informing you to read the postings. You may have to really think and observe how these things you are reading are true in PT.
You wanted “how we can assure that the same outcome or worse that happened in the 80′s will not be the result of this let me know.” That is up to each and every Scientologists maintaining their own integrity and following the tech standardly. Reread KSW where LRH says we have long since past having the correct tech and how to teach it. Then why did so many public just line and “agree” to the golden age of tech drills (not per LRH training as taught on Student Hat) and new books and tapes.
Think about it. Did LRH intend for new public, before student hat or even know what Scientology is, to listen to the PDC’s. He was here and alive when the PDC course, taught at AO’s and select SO orgs, had a pre-requisite of student hat, OT3 and above and Ethics Officer ok to do the course. We are to now believe LRH made a mistake, was blind to this, and really wanted it to be a Div 6 basic before doing Pro TRs or any auditor training.
The same outcome won’t happen if we don’t let it happen. There aren’t short answers other than to educate yourself and then maintain your integrity. Does that answer your question? Hopefully, we will see you moving on up a little higher in awareness, in responsibility and in your increased ability to confront the true facts of what you observe, and what you find true for you is what is true.
You guys may not be aware that the tru history of Scientology has been hidden and altered.
In fact- LRH had to hold many events where he dressed up like a pirate, a clown, a cowboy, and many other things including barbecues where he would demand millions of dollars from people until he could purchase St Hill. He then held all these events again so he could gut and remodel it with the finest interior design money could buy.
You may have forgottten the designer uniforms he had commissioned from French designer Andre Courreges at great expense?
I’m sure you have conveniently forgotten about the St Hill public division- the room off to the left where new public were sent alone to view projection screens and framed propaganda posters until they cognited.
Finally he could rest as now Scientologists had a comfortable space to study all their basic books and lectures and make payments to the IAS registrar.
I’m with you all the way, Anna. It’s ridiculous how all this money is thrown away to invest into distribution methods of the past. Who even wants printed mags, flyers and god knows what? All it takes is to post the mag online (as they do with the Freakdumb mag – don’t know whether they also print it) – then all the claimed millions of Scientologists could download their mag at practically no cost to the Tshurch – why mail it and pay postage on top? Would end up in millions of unique visitors on scientology.org too – provided there were millions of members (which there are not) Additionally, they would know how many people have downloaded the mag but I don’t think they want to know (or rather, because they know it doesn’t “sell”).
“We produced more single titles than any CD plant in the world”.
The last events I attended I really tried to read between the lines on this stat-speak(tm).
He’s not saying they produce more titles- he says “produced”.
He’s not saying they produced more CD’s- he’s saying “titles”.
I’m actually not sure what he is saying.
Welcome Laura,
Wow! Declaring Independence on your first post! Fantastic. Please share more of your story. You are very welcome here, and let us know if you need any help, or if any agent of the Church attempts to cause you discomfort. Yes, full Freedom to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness….I love it!
FLOURISH AND PROSPER!!!!
Much love, Lady Min
Hey Marty!
“He used to post more often. Intelligent guy sort of watching the scene from the weeds.”
Lol, hilarious! Yeah, I think there are a lot of us watching the scene from the weeds. But, ultimately when all wreckage clears away , Dianetics and Scientology will be far, far better for all parties concerned.
Happy Holidays everyone! Here’s my love bomb strategy….
(this link should work!)
http://bcove.me/dfktdfax
I have read the blue on blue which talked about this and yes, he did say “synthetic.”
Dear Lil’ Dave,
I’ve come up with another one of those “Bright Ideas” that might just get you out of your current pickle. We know that staff levels are reaching a critically low level. Oh hell, you know most of those left have been relegated to the RPF, the bilges or who knows what “hole” on which continent.
But you see the problem is that all of these fancy building are unstaffed. Folks can walk around with all of this new hi-tech video equipment and document that there’s no one, and I mean NO ONE, in your fancy new temples. (Keep in mind that whole-track implant stations at least had some drawing power.)
So here’s the deal: All you have to do is hire (buy!) a whole lot of mannequins!!!!! Dress them up in the latest garb the designers have come up with to obscure any notion to the uninitiated raw public and the remaining “Kool-Aid drinkers” that they are your slaves and minions (i.e., punching bags).
Dave, seriously think about this.
You can beat them. You can kick them. You can punch them. You can choke them. Oh hell, you, the usurper in chief, can even slap the shit out of them without even leaving a welt. YOU CAN EVEN SPIT IN THEIR FACES!!!!!!
And Davey Boy just get this: No more worry about another report to the FBI or various other law enforcement and prosecutorial level agencies. These life-size dolls don’t and can’t spill the beans and talk….. (Like in depositions under oath.)
Allow me to point out one more important point concerning the bottom line on your private slush fund, the IAS. These mannequins don’t eat….. Think about the saving by eliminating that dreadful cost of BEANS and RICE!!!!! Ah… More cash for custom-made thongs!
This is true,
Tom Gallagher
Yes. He’s patiently waiting for YOU to take care of it. I’m speaking figuratively, of course.
LRH has given us everything we need to free beings.
Owes us nothing.
Laura Lee,
A big hearty welcome!! I am pleased to have you on our side. The journey is continuing on the road to truth. VVWD! Another floating TA!
Hey disinfected—-got it. You trust your friend. I still say, read, look, listen, make up your *own* mind, way before heading back “In”.
That’s my view. You choose yours. They specialize in control.
Their abuses are world wide and known through out. The DAY they change that, they shall change for the better. As long as they’re abusing people—they can pitch their expansions until the cows come home…I’ll still be here, as will many others. Take care, and be well.
Thanks Mr. Marty.
Seeking,
I posted info for you above. I am taking up your comment “Otherwise, wouldn’t all the pages of reports on this site and others regarding the church and Davey already served its purpose?”
It is serving its purpose. We are communicating truth on a truth line. None of us are working toward taking over any post or position. We have no vested interest other than to see the suppression of the subject, technology and public field of scientology is removed from the ability to suppress or impinge. This blog daily is accomplishing this purpose. Daily people come here, read, cognite on what the truth is, and thereafter their postulates and thoughts change.
Remember one key important datum, all documentation of the truth of what happened in the 80’s, all personnel involved who individually know bits and pieces – have either been removed, altered or scattered to the winds. I think it is a bit unreal to think just publishing the truth will bring as-isness. I appreciate the desire for this. This blog, reading it, thinking of what you know, observing – this is all part of the false data stripping. Only then can you know the truth when you see it.
Many of the current public, current auditors, current PCs and Pre-OTs weren’t even on-lines 30 years ago. I was. My bet is you have a higher percentage of us here on this blog than anywhere in organized Scientology.
The truth is the answer. The basic will be hidden and unseen just as a 3rd party. It can be handled. It just the handling of false data. False data is in the reactive mind because it has never been analyzed.
Some LRH on this is: Ability Issue 74 Scientology and the Reactive Mind
“In Dianetics the reactive mind was thinkingness which went on without analytical inspection. …
The primary characteristic of the reactive mind is response to a situation without analytical inspection. People react without volition. They do strange things when confronted with stimuli. …
Clearing in Dianetics consisted of getting rid of the reactive mind by erasing it and learning to handle it. That’s a long task. Clearing in Scientology consists of discovering the source of the reactive mind itself and making it vanish. That’s a short, fast talk.”
Therefore, we don’t have to unravel every bit and piece. We simply keep communicating what we know and find. We get to the source of this false aberration imposed on the subject of Scientology. The source of the current suppression is here – now. Discovering the source for all to see will make it vanish. Sounds simple. It is all handled on the road to truth. The journey has the answer – not the destiny. On this journey we will remove the suppression. What we arrive at in the end is a totally new reality, one we probably can only dream and ponder on at this time.
If you are sincere and “Seeking-As-Isness” and this moniker fits you, then just as I, “Sapere Aude”, we will be part of the solution and we, along with all others at our side, will win. If you are not sincere then you will be left behind. I hope to see you at the celebration party.
Hear, hear Les.
🙂
Seeking Ass-Issnes: The church is dead. If you have observed this statement true, you will understand that the spirit of Scientology has moved on to the Independent Field.
Mr. Rathbun responded to my observation in a timely and theta manner. Well worth the acknowledgement.
Hi Veritas,
Thank you. Just beautiful. We love you Michael…
We are a wonderful group with new people starting to look and see the truth every day. All are welcome to come join the circle where we are all holding hands.
You can email me if you want. a.dephillips@comcast.net.
Great Song!!
I’ll enjoy your mail, I’m sure.
On the identification, or we’ll say at this point, similarity with the 80’s, I think the sequence is a bit altered. DM began his putsch before that earlier debacle and the mass declares were a further insult. I suggest you read the Gang of Five article on Scn Cult for some more data.
I understand, from my own observation, that the OSA sites are forwarding this idea that ‘this is that’, so don’t be surprized if some ears are going up on this.
DM is adept at using emergency, real or imagined, to instill the fear that the end of Scientology is nigh.
Seriously, Seeking As-Isness, if you are of the mind that that can occur, at this stage of the game, then you need to get off these blogs and study -hard, and get up the Bridge. THAT is the only assurance that you can possibly gain and the certainty that this thing Scientology, has come on the scene and there is precious little that is going to quiet that shot racketing down the time track.
If you are concerned, then as suggested, look to KSW for who the ogre that will eat this up is. It isn’t some nebulous Third Party a la the revealed OSA program to do exactly that that was put out on this very blog.
I look forward to hearing from you.
There are no clears or auditors made or students ot PC’s or staff or new public at my org.
But I assume from the events that my org must be the only one like that.
Lurker, when you say ” your former church”
Have you ever considered you appear to be a fish out of water flopping on dry land when you speak out of your fish tank like that into the real world .
There are no threats of being disconnected from friends and family out here.
Nor is there being fooled with fear into giving up one’s integrity to appear to follow instructions to maintain a precarious position under David Mis- babble- idge’s undue influence.
I know you know better so don’t let the force and threat of it consume you.
Just look and see what could really be for you in life out there . Give up the valence of a troll and be a free being (you don’t have to repent either).
No one has the copyrights and trademarks to fight enslavement of souls but in contrast would only resort to that if control and subjugation was the intent.
All you have to do is read LRH’s HCOB’s on Stages of Release and the the Overrun Phenomena HCOB 16 June 70,HCOB 3 June 71 and HCOB 2 Aug 65 to see why rer-rurning OT’s on Objectives Purif etc will seize up the case and damage it severly if continued .
Yes your failed Cl4,grade 7 elementary grade “genius” also known for swapping briefcases in clandestine meetings ,David Mis- babble- idge is now your only source for the tech.
Now what kind of a choice is that for a somewhat aware being to even consider.
You need to join the light and shine it under the rock to see what’s really there.
Red and black
It seems that the Church of Scientology becomes more insane (aberrated) and less like anything one (a Scientologist) would imagine to be “Scientology” the closer one moves toward the center. Progressing inward from the books and written materials (which continue to speak to many of us), to the missions (which most of us probably saw as fun, sane places), to the orgs (robotism, fear, and duress begin to show up), and on up to the insanity apparently dramatized at Int; and I have too much experience to doubt all the stories.
Problem is that when you move away from the organization for a while, you tend to forget that phenomenon. At least I do.
Laura Lee,
Good on you. Up go the bootstraps and we’re all much richer. If you hit some bumps and need a hand, write.
Merry Christmas to you too! I’ll be glad to hold your hand.
Keep holding it that is 🙂
Seeking-as-isness
You said:
“However, honestly I am not certaint that an independent movement will ensure that we will not have a repeat of the 80′s which as I understand it, gave us the current management and scene. ”
Interesting… I am curious how you came to that “understanding”.
I think you will find that “what happened in the 80s” was not what “gave us the current management and scene”. You appear to think that what is happening in the “church” today is a response to what “happened” between “management, top execs, mission holders, OT’s and other public” in the 80s.
I recommend you re-address your eval. I think you will find that it was DM and HIS “top management” that created that whole scene. Things were working considerably more smoothly before “management” stepped in with incorrect evals and off policy actions in order to consolidate their power. Some 20 years later ALL of that “power” is now solely in the hands of David Miscavige.
So… I ask… How does that appear to be working out for the “church” and for the philosophies and technologies of L Ron Hubbard?
Look carefully. Who do you think is more likely to forward real Scientology, David Miscavige and his “church” or free and independent Scientologists.
The Church of Scientology currently is the only entity that has access to ALL of LRHs writings. It is in their hands. Take a look and see what they are doing with it.
Now consider the “independent field.” Here there is somewhat limited access to the materials. What are they doing with what they have access to?
Now you should be in a position where you are able to evaluate a “why ” and a “who”.
Happy evaluating.
WW
Notsaware:
Could you clarify if the Paolo you are referring to is the same one whose wife is Marisa – a Class IX auditor? The Paolo I know was the HAS of FSSO, but I don’t recall him having that last name. They are both incredibly special people. When you say you “told him this was his route,” do you mean that you were in comm with him and he has some idea what’s going on outside of the C of S PR line? Very curious about this as if he is separated from Marisa that would be awful. They are a very close couple.
Here is an important video regarding the true state of the economy of the US:
http://theelevationgroup.net/movie/watch.php
I hope you do check it out and deem it as worthwhile becuase I found it to be. And before you think “it has nothing to do with the subject at hand” Think again.
Seeking, your burnt. A new day, a new name. There is nothing genuine about you. Don’t you get tired of that.
But there are beings here who possess much more knowledge and wisdom than I and they are willing to extend to you more beingness than your phoney personna deserves. Perhaps you will see this for what it is, appreciate it, and realize its time to head for the door.
Laura,
Very nice indeed. I wish you the best, am sure you will do well in life now you have now ridden yourself of the DM Virus, that is affecting so many.
Seeking-As-Isness,
The most difficult thing to confront in this universe is evil. It is a weak spot for the best of us.
You really have only just started on that path. And, honestly, it is so very hard to believe that someone from the church told you to read these websites. But, there are many websites to read.
I like this website the best because Marty seems to gather so many fun postings and so much TRUTH all in one spot. You want the truth? Read yposting here and as you do… you will really begin to see the sunshine in the dark of night!
Nancy,
Don’t quote me as I don’t have the issues at hand but before an FBO network an org’s FP was done on CGI. Corrected gross income – which part of the calculation was based on how much in dollar amount was debited. So if a student started say Level 0, the value of level 0 was added into the CGI and thus available for FP. The VSD was for completed services. My guess is the missions used the CGI. This was covered in the original OEC Vol 3, don’t know about the newer printing.
In both cases it takes the whole team. When CGI was used there was not an issue of backlogged unused services. Those funds were still there in the account. Now it truly is a debt. Wonder what the Cash-Bills would look like if you had to add unused AP (advanced payments) and pending Refunds. Most of the world or orgs would be instantly insolvent.
When you read the old policies you see there was not much Div 6 in the org’s. They pushed booksales, field auditors and missions. This was their main feeder line. The further down you were the more lenient ethics/justice actions. Hell, you don’t comm ev a book auditor who bought DMSMH at Barnes and Noble and is “auditing”. Today it appears as thought Flag perfect standards are enforced all the way to the bottom of the bridge. End result – field auditing is almost extinct.
A lot changed from the original field auditor and mission (really a “franchise”) system which changed to IHELP and SMI. The purpose appears (I don’t have all facts here so say it appears) to just be another income source into the dark pool. I would bet there are no Mission bday games really being pushed or played for keeps. More like a short term game of how do we stay open next month.
Missions used to deliver basic auditor training, processing through the Grades, etc and basic services. I don’t believe basic auditor training (HSDC and NED) are allowed to be delivered by a mission. There also used to be policy to leave their allegiance to their mission intact. Now they would be recruited to SO and ripped off with no replacement or some semblance of a partial replacement. That is my guess.
That spirit of play, of dancing on the edge, of pioneering and going where none had gone before – that is now the playing field of the Independents. In that game we really have no competition. We play games, we are so serious we come across as solid and lifeless.
Yes, Jim, we will go back to thinking outside the box. Jim, where did you put that box. Hell, you done went and made another of my… oh whatever.
Interesting Cat. You may be right and it is probably that way now except maybe it is just him and dm.
I got your return message on the earlier thread. That is a cool job that you have making molds. I have a friend who is a bronze sculpter and I find that stuff fascinating.
🙂
Tony
LOL Loki. You have quite the eye.
I am already leaning toward your call on this one too after reading a bit more from this “person”.
I have a new indicator that is starting to be consistent. The OSA bots mock up this synthetic beingness of a person who is sort of innocent and naive and “good hearted”. Then they start propogating their “message” (fearful doubts) couched in good intentions and sprinkled with some acknowledgments of the “bad” current scene. It has a bit of a sing-song quality to it.
Granted there could be actual people like this. But I think they would stay that way for only a short time. I think the answer to this is to ask pointed questions and look for inconsistencies and they will show up fast because this synthetic being is very dumb and will show up quickly if not a real thetan.
I agree Nancy the ol’ blame the Mission game was a game that has been going on for some time.
The orgs were jealous because the higher trained auditors tended to gravitate towards franchise just like Ron says in the HCOPL ‘Recruit in Excess’ and they tended to pay their staff better because the service was usually better at Mission than an Org.
Like the old joke:
How do you tell the difference between a Mission and an Org.
A Mission has toilet paper in the rest rooms 😉
Anyway I think part of the reason for the whole Mission Massacre back in ’82 was revenge.
I retract my offer.
Welcome Laura!!
Congratulations on having the guts and intestinal fortitude to do the right thing.
Are you related to Glen Gurkhe?
Here is some mass on the general idea of spotting an OSA bot:
+1
Tom, not to mention he can fill a course room with them sitting facing each other for hours and hours and they will never blink.
Well, I can speak for LA Day in the present, but my own eyes have confirmed on many occasions the nearly empty courserooms in the San Francisco Idle Org. The basic course room had max 4 people in it the last 2-3 times I saw it. The huge reception and Div 6A area has literally been entirely devoid of public every time I’ve seen it in the last year.
Also meant to add that in the mid-late 90’s, LRH Way *always* seemed to have a number of people walking up and down it throughout the day, both public and SO members. It was just never this empty. Not at 4:30pm on a weekday, maybe 4:30am!
Wow Tory!
We’re soul mates!
I got thrown out of the film room for almost the same reason.
My deodorant from Whole Paycheck had a trace of birch and sandalwood (both natural scents) and the Sniffer I/C (an new made up post in the SO like S…er…I mean COB) spotted the fact that I didn’t smell like an Airport restroom and threw me out.
Thanks Scott, that was beautiful! New one for me. Very appropriate for a new Independent, and a not so new Independent.
splog,
The person I was in touch with via Facebook is no longer in touch
with me….so I cannot ask them. They got super afraid OSA may connect the dots on who they were, and I believe they decided to move to another country. Time shall tell. One more tick tock, tick tock…..:)
Yes that is Paolo Coccoda. I know them very well since over 20 years as we all come from sardinia. I’ve been in comm with Paolo in few occasions via skype and alerted him about what was going on. He didn’t believe me. You are right, Marisa will not digest very well the forced separation and is going to collapse soon or later. If Paolo doesn’t blow, will spend the first year in the RPF just to train to audit someone of his case level (OTV), then if he is lucky, will spend 5 to 6 years attempting to do the program. I highly doubt he’ll ever come out if not by blowing.
ROTFLOL! A m a z i n g~~ and they wonder “Why aren’t
we expanding?” Yes, RJ—we’re soul mates! Too funny.
DFB,
It’s an international secret….and here’s my latest
video on Secrets. Hope you enjoy it!
When ever I say “Scientology” on YT, I mean the “Church” of $cientology, and their moronic, abusive organization.
It’s my Christmas Video 🙂
Love to all 🙂
Tory/Magoo
OK, I`ll ask this guy for help.*gg
In, out and with: It’s somewhat strange that a lot of comments tend obviously towards an ideal scene that a lot of people should be “in”.
I have since the 80’s acquired the concept that that’s not an ideal scene. Loads of people “in” Scientology – even if it isn’t the radical type – is still polarizing Scientology versus the “out of it”. More of a problem than a solution.
I consider as an ideal scene for Independents – if it then must be a localized one – “with” or “trafficking through” or “frequently meeting with”.
Doesn’t make a difference for the idleness of orgs as an indicator, but just came to my mind in scanning through these comments. It’s for me, how there’s more importance in the difference between a Scientologist and an Independent than between a radical and a less radical Scientologist.
Can call me a quibbler, but the felt ideal scene of full orgs with people “in” doesn’t feel much better for me than the approached state of empty orgs.
But I like the word idle as negative of busy. Busy orgs would be much of people with, not in Scientology. And they’d produce more of the probably highest nameable VFP than a fully cleared planet with all the clears IN SCIENTOLOGY (what horror scenario!) would: exported knowledge.
Who didn’t meet yet the term “exported knowledge”, is recommended to find it and clear it repetitive to EP. (Sorry that I can’t refer to the LRH outflows where I met it. I have no good literal recall for lectures titles, imported the knowledge through too unsystematic lines, and have no more easy access to materials.)
Loved the Vid Tory.
Thank you!
And have a Happy Holiday Season as well.
The real answers on that link exist in the LRH Estate Planning. Note; these documents represent an Irrevocable Trust. The same trust that DM is violating. Ouch. That breach of Fiduciary Duty is gonna hoit.
Lurker,
I had my post pending when this was done. I appreciate your comm back. No offense was meant. I too was a real lurker and found the blog to contain much truth. I see from your other answers that your quest has given you much to look at. Ask and ye shall receive. Even to continue lurking will continue you on your journey to truth.
PS: We usually refer to him as Marty here in the big family of the blog world.
Notsaware:
Thank you very much for your response. This is very disturbing. I knew Paolo was over in Italy earlier this year. I can’t imagine he is going to stand to be RPF’d or separated from Marisa. I care deeply about these two beings. Do you know if his being RPFd had to do with his trip to Italy earlier this year? I can’t imagine Paolo would allow himself to be separated from his wife — especially if he starts to see that what you were telling him is true. If you’re not comfortable discussing this on this forum, let me know and I’ll get your email address from Marty or vice versa (if that’s not dev-t – if it is, Marty, totally understood). Thanks.
Welcome, Laura Lee!! You state, “From this day forward I will be the captain of my own destiny…” I learned so much from this. Thank you!! H
Marty, I know I am commenting on a thread that most likely will not be looked at anymore by the regular readers of this blog but wanted to add it so it is recorded.
I think I understand WHY David Miss Savage doesn’t use the Internet for the distribution of org mags: online Scientologists would have a legal information channel to LOOK.
Here’s how it goes:
The simplest, fastest and cheapest way to distribute information (magazines) to any area in the world is the Internet.
If each mission/org mag would be available at scientology.org in a “Magazine Download Area” (grouped by language, area, mission/org or what have you and irregardless that it is idiotic and off-policy to centralize what must be ), every Scientologist in the world could look and see for himself how other missions and orgs are doing and how Scientology is doing by continent as well as internationally.
For instance, publics, staff and Sea Org members could:
(a) figure out the most important Mission/Org/Cont/Int stats by counting course and auditing completions and adding them up
(b) know who is redoing what auditing rundown or course at what SH, AO or Flag (i.e. “stat corrections”) – as they will know many of the people as they have once started in their own mission or org.
(d) they would see that the mission/org logo is more or less the only “change” from mag to mag (ask any former Dissem Staff at a CLO or FLO/ILO and you know the difficulty they had and have in “individualizing” their local mags as it is).
(e) gone would be the oh so handy situation that each mission/org believes “it is just us who are struggling” (while the rest of the world is booming).
In other words: management would provide a comm line for them to “find out” (what they are not supposed to find out). This also is another facet of the non-stop event schedule – don’t give them a breather so they have no chance to look for themselves. Actually makes for a nice variation of the familiar Think for Yourself slogan but is now addressed to the sheep inside.
Sorry, left a sentence incomplete:
… irregardless that it is idiotic and off-policy to centralize what must be individually created …
Seeking-As-Isness — Any new visitor should thoroughly review “31 Factors,” a tab at the top of the page. Many of your questions may be answered there. H
One might think that people are shooting video to show that there is no traffic at the Orgs, but the reverse is actually true; people are trying to get video of these “booming orgs” (kind of the way people are constantly trying to capture video of Sasquatch). The fundamental problem with this effort is that it’s doomed to failure. I’ve been around Big Blue plenty of times, all hours and pretty much all I ever see is security. So Marty didn’t miss it by an half an hour or anything. There’s nothing there.
See for yourself. Go there when there’s supposedly a lot of people coming and going for courses. And please film it to show to the rest of us, if you would.
Notsaware, you do great work Bro! I love hearing your updates. Keep it up!
Allright Laura!
Windwalker,
I agree that DM and HIS management created a disastrous mess that has cost us over 30 years of wasted time and resources. I also do understand that he was on the lines as a direct messenger to LRH way before the massive declares in the 80’s.
In response to your question of how I came to the understanding that 80’s gave us the current management:
First let me clarify my statement, “what happened in the 80’s”. I meant in terms of the upset internally and in the field which gave DM and Management a reason to mass declare and get rid of good public and staff – also ruin their lives. What happened to those valuable well intentioned staff and public that were declared or created there own groups in the field? Were they all less able than we are now? Or less organized? Or could it be the correct why or who wasn’t found? Did they not suspect DM and CO?
Where I got my data was from a letter on the internet that was written in the 80’s by Dane Top’s.
In the letter Dane Top’s states:
“The APPARENCY of the problem is between the “field” (including splinter groups) and the MANAGEMENT, including the Financial Police. The current opposition between these factions has caused untold devastation to the Church. However, I believe NEITHER SIDE is the source of trouble — although EACH SIDE believes the OTHER SIDE is source. I do not know who this hidden WHO is but it has been there a very long time.
A complete data analysis should go back at least to 1965 when ethics conditions first came out, possibly earlier. Since 1965 forward one can view the use of heavy force to control, fear tactics, and physical restraint, etc. Those who were there remember the inception of these methods.suggested at that time that there was a unseen 3rd party. ”
You are correct Scientology has not really expanding since before DM and Co came on the lines. Now we could just assign him as the why and practice in the Freezone which was attempted in the 80’s
As regards Group Engrams and Group Engram Running, my question or concern is:
Is what we are handling now late on the chain?
If we don’t get it early enough won’t we just continue to get more upset and contraction – regardless of how well intended and how much integrity we have.
My concern is Who is behind DM. I really don’t buy that he was able to hijack the church all by himself. THAT is MY current OPINION based on what I have seen and read thus far. I have read bits of conspiracy theories on other sites about DM being involved with the CIA and the IRS. I am asking my questions on This Blog because it seemed there were are a lot of terminals here with the intent to salvage Scientology and I thought I could find some mutual intention and trust.
I am taking the advice of Jim Logan and One of Those Who Sees to read more data on links they provided in there comments.
Samuel and SA, Good points. I also think when you keep the promo lines to the people who most want to see the promo used to good effect (the org FP) then you’ll get the best result. Centralizing the brochure and flier making mostly at Int level guarantees stat pushing and waste. I was handed 500 dollars a week or so and I was expected to spend it. I wasn’t on the ground in each org’s area knowing what best to promote. It was the org’s money from their FP’s.
I doubt there’s LRH policy centralizing the promo lines like this. It’s probably DM’s arbitrary, or some datum stretched way out of context.
Derek, It’s the off policy regging for IAS etc that scares people from getting anywhere near the org much less sit down in the cafe.
Jim,
Thanks for explaining the thing about OSA putting forth the “this is that” regards the 80’s. I didn’t know that. Makes sense as to why my comment has been suspected and bashed by a few bloggers.
I am not saying that now is the same thing as the 80’s in terms of squirrel, sp, squirrel or siding with OSA.
All I am pointing out is that DM didn’t get handled then although many tried and many good valuable people were abused and lost and now we have the CofM.
What next the Church of the CIA?
Just wanting to know if we are really getting to the real root of the problem of how DM came to power in the first place.
I mean I don’t think that the Church is just going to disappear because DM’s crimes are exposed. Possibly he will be taken down but who or what will replace him?
I have heard on this Blog that the Church is dead. Well they still have alot of money and with that alot of evil can be done. Is that not something to consider?
Shouldn’t something be done to ensure the out tech is erradicated completely?
I hope that make sense.
Loki,
Someday we will meet and you can apologize.
I will accept.
Seeking-As-Isness
Sapere Aude,
Thanks for your comment we are not in disagreement.
I agree.
The way this was experienced at Class V level was that we’d have huge amounts of promo show up that we didn’t have any money to even send out (regardless of whether it was even effective promo for the area) because all of the promo money was spent getting the mag out.
One org I was at used to produce it’s own local mag that was pretty decent, very cheap to produce and, most importantly, got some response. Unfortunately, it was black and white because that’s the printing press the org had and well, that wasn’t good enough, apparently. So, the org was forced to stop producing the mag that got results and scramble to send tons of money to FB to get the mag done there. Maybe a nicer-looking mag, but it NEVER brought anyone in.
Look, Ma. SPAM.
I don’t see why you shouldn’t make up a law if you want to. I know a fella that made up a whole bunch of them – along with axioms, codes, factors, etc – and he didn’t have a degree either. At least not a real one. Didn’t make them any less (or more) valid. If they describe and predict observable phenomena then they are true to that degree. Incidentally, Godwin’s Law seems to fit that ctiteria.
Lurker hi! This theta is what we have been looking for here. I have been persecuted as SO for insisting on the application of HCOBs which were not applied on translations!!!
So theta is what we are looking for and Sanity is included in Free Theta. Your answer is polite and shows that theta. I hope you will be curious enough to LOOK into the situation which ain’t good at all for many years now.
Thanks.
If you had to work like crazy to pay off all that debt you racked up for “freedom” in the Church, then “Arbeit macht frei” is a standard operating basis, ja? I think most of us have lived it. It is nice to be off of the hamster wheel.
Thanks, Moving Forward. That was my observation, also.
Another thing was in the 90’s, certainly in earlier years, there
was ZERO “you all have to get in the building” because ONE
SP is outside”. That’s just plain NUTS.
Got that, disinfected. Which is why I say “read, LOOK, listen to both sides, make up your *own* mind..before heading back “in”. It IS a different world than it used to be, no question about it. Those running it have long since forgotten why they joined Scientology.
I think the whole “in” vs “out” thing is a false dichotomy. Sure they are opposite, but they are opposites that do not matter.
Nobody in their right mind asks if customers are “in” or “out” of Walmart – it’s a stupid statement. Walmart is a place you buy useful stuff from, like barbeques. Similarly, orgs are useful places you take service at. A good org will leave you feeling you want more service and so everyone wins.
And KSW1 isn’t a valid counter either. “Have you more dead than incapable” is mentioned in the context of delivering service to public, not in the context of everything else you will do with your entire life.
Your fundamental misunderstanding is that I seek to salvage a dead operation. An Admin Why is thus irrelevant. Miscavige and his apparatus is purely an Ethics objective. Ethics Officers are not much interested in whys. They are interested in who’s. As in who is the cat laying logs across the tracks preventing the train full of passengers to get from point A to point B. You find that and handle, and suddenly the train can get on its way. Thorough evaluation has found that no individual or force of any signficance is preventing auditing and Clearing from happening, except for one. No psychs, no drug companies, no government agencies to speak of. Only one. His name is David Miscavige.
Godwin’s Law is an internet joke. Yes, it has a basis in maths – the same kind of basis that says if you walk forward long enough and keep on going you will eventually walk around the globe and come back to where you started.
But the real use of Godwin is as an in-joke trigger. It’s the secret signal the initiates use to point out that a thread has gone on long enough and everyone should find something else to talk about.
Contact me on facebook (Ignazio Tidu), then I’ll give you my skype contact.
I fully understand that you do not want to salvage the church.
What I am talking about is salvaging Scientology and the good intentioned Scientologist exactly as I stated. I can see that you have decided emphatically that the only Who is DM.
Meanwhile, I am still Seeking – As- Isness.
Actually, I doubt it has any basis in math other than using the terminology of math. Of course it is a joke, and joking around is what we are doing in this sub-thread. Which has obviously out-lived any humor it may have ever had.
Don’t know if you have this saying in english – in german we say, “your word in god’s ear!”. This on the level which is concerned here.
On another level, I’d protest the “false dichotomy” and would respond, of course each dichotomy is false. But which doesn’t hinder them to mess up things.
Also I’d count KSW 1, because it counts on the entire life for those who allow this. And if the context of “Have you more dead than incapable” takes this context for the incapables of limiting (defining) contexts, it is deadly.
In this sense, the statement has in its extremely easy to isolate from the context and hence unlucky words taken kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy coloration. Scientology as service place has made the inversion from incapable to dead exactly for such unlucky colorations.
Which can be only the end of a cycle, not of cycles, if we allow it. But as words are defining cycles, the try to save the term Scientology over to a new cycle is contraproductive – IMO. It hinders a new cycle by not letting the old one come to its end and transformation. Words – as working systems, not as “overall truth” and hence serfacs – mean what they are understood as, not what even the most enlighted and “true” meaning would like them to be. And there comes another unlucky formulation by LRH into play. If one tries to undo this, by allowing or even pushing overwhelm as a cheap replacement of control in case of incapability of the latter, you fix yourself in the overwhelmed – at least for them. No good prerequisite for their freeing.
Nothing of the above is meant to discredit LRH. Just maybe a little contribution to free him out of too overall contexts.
And perhaps to you, Splog (hi!), a pointing to looking over your in the given context very true (IMO) and estimated comment, in another context.
Well that would be a clïent of the place I work at. Here are some examples for I think the oldest sculpture we have as a clïent.
http://www.harronikkels.nl/
*could*
Oh my such Testosteron 😉
Tory,
Pity about losing touch. With a little more detail I might be able to corroborate what the person stated.
Alan.
Hi there,
I’m guessing you are German-speaking? I don’t know that language so it’s not easy to follow our thought process (idioms in one language don’t translate easily to another language). But I sense there’s a lot in your post and I don’t want to mis-duplicate your meaning.
I see KSW1 as rules for technical application only. Scientology is applied a certain way, just like on my computer. The command “printf” prints to the screen and “printg” is nonsense. So I must use the first command and don’t have any option about it. An auditor or Sup or E/O or exec on post also doesn’t have an option about what the next step is. This is good and gives consistent, standard delivery.
Some people with very low intelligence blindly apply KSW1 to any situation anywhere. As you say, that is deadly. It’s the old story of all force with no intelligence.
I firmly believe that LRH expected a certain level of education from his readers. He expected them to understand the language, and appreciate words for what they mean, and understand idioms. He was a writer after all and his writing success depended on using language well. KSW1 is full of idioms and carries a lot of frustration in it’s meaning too. The opening sentences basically says it already, you can feel how pissed off he is about having to sort this out for the third time! So there’s a lot of colourful language and banging fists on table, from which I think we are supposed to understand “LRH is pissed off. I need to pay attention!” There are exact rules and facts too, like the 10 points. The Student Hat tells me to pay special attention to those.
I think that LRH thought once someone got to the point they had to read KSW1 that all of this would be obvious. He sure didn’t intend bookbuyers to read it after one hour in the org!
Sadly, the people now in charge in orgs are largely reduced to being robots. And robots are not free.
For myself, I’m going to carry on using the subject the same way I always did – by understanding it and making up my own mind. if an LRH issue is true, it is because it is true, not because LRH signed it. And he could be wrong so it’s up to me to verify his writings before I accpet them as true. And also to understand what he was actually saying, including seeing the difference between stating a fact and illustrating something.
I look forward to the day when there is no more “Scientology group” that I must be “in” or “out” of. Instead I want to see the subject in it’s rightful place as something well known, well thought of, and *used* to change conditions. I don’t celebrate people blowing just because they have blown, I celebrate because they have causatively changed conditions for themselves.
I don’t know what your suggesting. That someone besides DM is using justice lines to enforce programs that he very publicly rolls out and sells to people as his own? That he lies when he himself says he is the originator of the squirrel programs? This is partly an E/O action taking place and it’s the most important thing since the discovery of the tech, all explained everyday all day. Regardless of what Marty says he’s doing, he’s taking actions to save the Church, that’s plain as day.
Marty,
I think the problem is that many out there want some kind of leader to take over and fill the vacuum that will be created when His Satanic Majesty vanishes in a puff of smoke.
They know that you are more trustworthy because you’ve confronted your own demons and more intelligent than say someone who thinks Pearl Harbor was attacked by suicide bombers.
Anyway that’s the way it is.
You’re just too popular among Scientologists.
I mean if we actually held an election for a “Religious Leader” you’d probably win hands down.
Having written that.
The point I’m been trying to make for some time is that Scientology doesn’t need a leader.
In fact there is nothing in any actual policy written by Ron saying that we do.
On the Org Board there is no such post as “Religious Leader”.
Scientologists should be the last people on Earth to require leadership as it is commonly conceived in the “wog” world.
I recommend an article that was recommended to me once long ago when I asked the Ol’man what’s going to happen when he leaves?
Its called ‘Essay on Management’ and in Vol 1 of both the Original Tech Vols and the newer ones.
What he says in there is what has happened and is currently happening to the Church of Scientology.
Management currently has become that spoke in the wheel he writes about in that essay.
How we got there is a different story.
I agree with SAI that there may have been in the beginning some plot or conspiracy involved.
The GO could have been set up so that it could be taken out by the new regime and a more autocratic and authoritarian system installed that would eventually lead to the current abomination known as “management” led by an ignorant,obnoxious and evil little imbecilic gnome whose very incoherent word became law.
True the glorious “victory over” more accurately sell out to the IRS gives him the power to enforce the Internal Revenue Code just as if he were an actual agent in the Service’s Enforcement Department as head of the ‘Church Tax Compliance Committee’.
Another hat he wears that he seems more modest about than others like “Chairman of the Board”, “Department 21”, and my personal favorite the one assigned to him by one of his lackeys, “Miscavige is Scientology” which is probably true because as Ron said somewhere one eventually snaps into the terminal that one commits the most overts against and the number of overts he’s actually committed against the subject and its founder are legion!
As I wrote earlier you probably could just call off any item on List One to him if you could get him to hold the cans and get a dial wide rock slam hitting both pins and making the meter sound like a five alarm fire.
Unless of course you were using his specially designed and appropriately named Mk 8 Ultra….
But I digress….
So yes Marty I totally understand SAI’s POV as there are many who feel the same way.
In fact the Ol’man warned us that this day would eventually come if we weren’t vigilant and it has.
If the GO had been effective at that point they may have prevented it.
But they didn’t.
There’s one hell of a lot of “would haves” and “could haves” that are all in the past.
Sure the Intelligence Community managed to acquire the “secret scriptures” by recruiting an original OT VII Class VI auditor to train their remote viewers and were able to convince the new management to ignore certain policies when they wanted to enhance their operatives and I’m sure that certain factions were pleased when the man least likely to succeed actually did and with the help of the media and the endorsement of the IRS became the “Man Behind Scientology”. It’s unquestioned ruler.
They smiled and like the Trojan Man rode off into the sunset saying “my job here is done” and stowing all documents related their good works in the appropiate burn bag to be incinerated leaving us with a psychopath in charge who on his own has managed to succeed where others had previously failed!
Yes a brilliantly conceived and executed operation proving that they indeed had a better grasp of the tech than the dupe…er I mean man in charge who is stupid enough to believe that he got to where he’s gotten by his own devices especially by his misduplication and misapplication of the rules of power and his enforcement of other tech developed by another Hubbard in name.
Now all that is left is for the man in charge to finish the good work started and bring the whole organization down without having to left a finger unless it’s to occasionally run interference on his behalf while he continues his mission.
A mission that he is performing splendidly!
So no SAI I don’t think Miscavige gets his orders directly from the NSC even though he may be carrying out the objectives of some (not all people in the Government are anti-Scientology since there are quite a few who have made personal gains from the subject I’ve audited some and I’m sure others have) who consider Scientology a “threat to National Security” and are like Miscavige *suppressive* and who like Miscavige directs the Church direct the Government into committing suppressive acts.
I mean what could be more suppressive than eliminating Scientology?
However fortunately for us there are a majority in the Government and in any walk of life who are good.
Even many of those people who Miscavige currently has under his thumb.
I don’t know about big Pharma because I’ve never audited anyone working for them but I’ve run into a few people who’ve worked for them and generally they are nice people though as a group they may be suppressive just like the current incarnation of the Church.
Anyway this is probably one of the longest postings I’ve ever made.
Whew!!!!!
And I hope I didn’t bore you all.
So I’m going to sign off for now.
I’d just like to thank you all for reading my digressions and especially you Marty for giving us a place to put them.
Ml
Robin
Thanks for the feedback, Boyd H.
Yeah, it’s really sad to see such attractive real estate not being used properly because of wrong headed policies. You have to excuse me because I’m still a little under the illusion that the COB will take a hard look at why all those Orgs are not filled with Scientologists and make corrections in policies on how the public is approached. As a Scientologist (and yes, I consider myself one), I want to see Scientology succeed. There was a time when I used to bring some of my friends to the Org I was taking courses in and was appalled at how they were pressured to purchase a course. One friend brought one and I knew he didn’t want the course package. He never went back, we never discussed the incident again. I don’t bring friends around Scientology are bring the subject up. They know I am still involved but never ask me about it. I feel like Scientology is a tainted product and this is NOT the way it is supposed to be.
You’re most welcome, RJ and Tony–Thanks for watching! 🙂 Happy Holidays to All!
Beautiful work..
🙂
No you are not. You are trolling. Still haven’t responded to several our suggestions to read up. Adios.
“However, Godwin’s law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent’s argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin’s law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.”
Dear Tony,
I know you are interested in the Org Board as a tool. I know you have this viewpoint which is to ACT and DO something more.
We talked on an e-mail about it.
What I was missing all this time was that one thing called MISSION TECH. Missionaries.
It is not possible to organize a group out of wild cats (LOL!!!) who are just enjoying life after they have given their everything to the cause.
It takes some revitalization of the purpose there (OT Orgs).
The mission tech is the missing ingredient.
The FUNDS for such mission is a bit of a problem. But MEST was never a problem for OTs and Scientologists. It shouldn’t be except that all staff under the circumstances have this thing suppressed.
So, if some people for the fun of it, and for higher causes get mobilized…
Imagine, I repeat, Marty Rathbun coming to Greece or going to Italy for a Tour. I think I would donate money for that cause. Not just for Greece, no no. For any place.
Imagine Jim Logan, I repeat, I am just saying some names, I don’t mean those specific people in particular, but as we all know them, imagine Jim going on a Tour somewhere to set up something.
Imagine Lisa Hamilton who is an Esto to go together with them and do some Estoing. Let’s say she could leave her residence for a couple of weeks and Mark,her husband go together on an Esto Mission. I would donate money for that cause, even if it was 30-50 euro. More people here would. And more would join and give because they would see more ACTION.
So, this is what I am saying and I think you and me and LO and others can create this thing. I want to work towards that purpose because I know that this is the MISSING INGREDIENT in what we are doing. Get some PHYSICAL (now) TOUCH with each other and do auditing, workshops as you are saying and more and more Scientology.
DM is going to go nuts because we ARE MOVING even a little bit higher with Missions, hehehe!!
We can even have 3-4 missions out simultaneously. He is going to be sending “ethics” missions to catch us, hehehe. But we are going to be delivering at low prices and the people in the church are going to hear about it because you know how it is with rumors:
“The Indies are delivering Standard Scientology (red on white, green on white) at low prices in your town”. This will be going around in the whole planet.
Max Hauri a Swiss OT and Freezoner did many missions in Russia and boomed the field there. The Russian government had to ban LRH books to stop him, I guess.
So, let’s see how this can go.
Hahaha, that’s good Tony! You are way cool… “so I would know where I would be going”, hahaha!
Apart from LO’s place, you can also go all over the planet, man! As LRH did.
Hahaha, LO,
Yes, Greece is a go button, we have lot’s of Ouzo and Tsipouro (our national alchool drinks) here, cold beer under a hot sun in the summers, lot’s of islands with lots of fish and a Mediterannean blue sky. Just last year I was in Mykonos for an iPhone application that I want to make (if there is any Indie programming iPhone applications please let me know, we should cooperate on such things) for a travel application on Mykonos in English and I stayed there on a 4 star hotel next to the sea and made some acquaintances on the island.
Imagine now we get auditors and most people speak good english on those islands and we audit people and we create TOGETHER WITH THE ITALIANS A BASE IN THE MEDITERANNEAN. Like a stable place where auditors are and audit in the summer even locals because those locals (non Scientologists), I am telling you they need auditing… There are managers and businessmen and they are doing stupid things and they want to change and so something and they don’t know what to do. There are so many of those. I know some here in Athens.
If you have something better organized you can get them and they can be a steady income for the auditors. I am a Div 6er. I talk to people a lot about Scientology. But auditors are needed.
So, anyway, you get my point. It’s great that you guys will get together. We can take up that chance and make some Declaration from that place you live in or if you don’t want to communicate that, that’s fine, make a Declaration anyways and print it and have it as our Mission Statement or something.
Then we can possibly create a Unit that will help organize or push Missions into the Independent field.
Like I said to Tony, if I know of a Mission going on I can donate some little money for the Mission expenses like we did with Daniel.
Then the Mission arrives has some money for some days and the locals and the missionaires there start making some inroads into Society and disseminating Scientology also to non Scientologists. So they can make their own money then.
So, we can see this with Tony if you want and Wind Walker who likes the idea and has thought of it himself, too and see where we can get at.
My e-mail is thetamag75@gmail.com so you can write to me, guys and we can take it from there.
WW, this is great! You see Theta is much faster!! No comm lags, hahaha when it has to do with a good idea.
As I said above to Tony, the missing ingredient is Mission Tech.
You being an Ethics specialist and being able to deliver such services through the Internet should make a Non-E, probably this should be encouraged by this blog by Making your Non-E and Marty publishing it as a separate thread or whatever it’s called and we start discussing that with you and see where this can get us at.
But this is the idea, organize it a bit, like WW delivers ethics services and is interested in getting some mission to his place. Who can go or who wants ethics services and then they talk with you.
I can donate a bit of money each time when I know of a mission (maybe around 200-300 euro per year) so some fund is built for missions of Independent Scientology and maybe we can make this a separate thread again and open a subject and we can discuss that Subject: Independent Scientology Services and Missions. Non Ex, for example.
The applications of this thing are innumerable. We just started and the more we organize bit by bit the more that Org Board is going to come alive, even a bit disorganized a bit but we are going to be building a BODY of Independence out of this and the BODY can take ACTION, it definitely can and that was the purpose of LRH with Orgs.
To create BODIES out of thetans who are organized and CAN perform certain actions. That is what an Org is and is ALL about. A BODY which can PERFORM and DO Scientology Services. DM has turned those bodies into Robots or nice Buildings. We can put Life back to them. Let’s see how we can get this going but I think I will be writing something to Marty on this. Thanks a lot for your ideas and support.
Notsaware, which RPF is he in?
Also, excellent news re the new indies.
Boyd H,
I am suggesting or suspect, that there is someone else behind DM that he is a possibly just a puppet or robot to the Real WHO. And if that is the case and any other WHO’s behind DM are not found, couldn’t history just repeat itself?
Remember I am just asking the question. I am not autoratatively stating it is that way.
Beleive me I would like nothing more than to have this mess all sorted out and hang it all on DM – IF his is the ONLY MAIN HEAD to put on a SPIKE.
WHY would I want that? hmm…maybe because I am not a troll???
It is only my guess that most of the staff, public, execs and splinter groups of the 80’s who were declared most likely were not favorable of DM and his management either. But they did not succeed in handling the scene in nearly 30 years and most are gone. I do not think their failure makes them SP’s.
Reversly, I am not suggesting AT ALL that because DM seemingly won in the 80’s that he is not an SP .
I simply want to make sure that DM is the MAIN WHO.
SAI
Marty,
It seems you have decided that I have other intentions than what I have said.
Since this is your house, rather than try to persuade you that my intentions are otherwise or waste your time, I will politely depart.
SAI
RJ,
Thanks for your comment and considering my POV and questions.
SAI
SAI,
Don’t worry about Boyd.
He’s a confirmed member of the Church of Coincidence-tology trying to convert us heathens.
I think he fervently believes in the “magic bullet theory” and that Lee Harvey Miscavige acted alone.
Just take his religious tract and deposit it in the nearest trash basket like all the ones you just got from the Hare Krishnas, the Moonies, the Way and the Koolaid Drinking Scientologists from “Scientologists” On-Lines now standing on the street corners of the internet and move on.
And make up your own mind.
However I do agree with Marty.
If you want to go through the looking glass like poor Alice.
Your going to be spending a long time doing it.
Been there done that.
Why not just lighten up a little and read what’s posted and contribute some posting of you’re own of your own personal revelations.
Instead of asking so many damn questions!
If you are are seeking as-is-ness then asking “what’s it” is not the way to go about it.
Get your basics in kiddo 😉
The real ones I mean.
After a few scotches, he breaks into his next tune:
OTs roasting in a locked up trailer
Smashing PCs in the face
Misusing ethics, anytime, anyplace
Loss of case gain, yes, loss of case gain
To yooooooouu.
That’s right Boyd H.
It was the IAS events that completely turned me off to ever bringing new people into the org.
IAS in the orgs is 100% suppressive Dev-T.
Splog~That was incredibly touching. I feel this way too.