I have had the privilege of meeting these fine folks. Their write up may be the most damning indictment to date on Scientology Inc’s disregard and disdain for those who empower it. Btw, Seattle is rocking.
Bert Schippers and Lynne Hoverson hereby announce that we no longer support, and are no longer part of, the squirrel organization called the Church of Scientology.
So much has been written by others before us, that expressed exactly what we wanted to say when we could not. For that we thank you all very much! The histories posted helped us see that we were not alone, that the outpoints we saw weren’t just “something wrong with us.”
Who we are: Lynne joined Scientology in 1973, training on NED and then the Levels, and reaching OT III in 1986, the year Bert started in Scientology. We married in 1989 and started our own company. Since then Lynne has reached OT V and three L’s and Bert made it to OT IV.
Over the years we put off getting new cars and beautiful houses, instead donating our way to the levels of Patron Meritorious in the IAS, Double Cornerstone in the Super Power Project and Triple Humanitarian for the Seattle Ideal Org. We helped CCHR Seattle survive for decades, we worked as Volunteer Ministers and in various other church activities. We were told repeatedly that we were wonderful “Opinion Leaders,” especially during efforts to get more donations from us, but we were shunned instantly when we refused to toe the line!
You may wonder why we donated so much, may even think we were crazy to do so. Did we do it for the “statuses?” Absolutely not! Our purpose in donating was to HELP. We really thought that we were helping others, helping those less fortunate, helping protect freedoms. It made all the personal sacrifices less significant. Imagine the betrayal we felt after coming to see the fraud and human rights abuses so rampant in virtually everything involving the church!
What did we experience that brought us to the point of making this open declaration?
- Finding out that Lynne’s son in the Sea Org would no longer be allowed to have children, and having to turn a blind eye to the fact that this was a direct violation of what LRH said about balancing the dynamics.
- Being made to feel guilty about doing anything in life but what was “approved” by the church.
- Forced disconnection from Lynne’s non-Scientologist daughter in 2001 until we saw the truth in 2009.
- Inquisition-like ethics cycles at Flag with two MAAs reading the meter, baiting and badgering and then threatening expulsion for being upset with an MAA.
- Completely botched Clear cycle for Lynne’s daughter, costing tens of thousands of dollars and many years of upset, with literally zero actual care, handling, or results from CC, Flag and AOLA.
- The death of a dedicated staff member resulting in her being denigrated for abandoning her post and “pulling it in.” This person was one of the most helpful, gracious people who’d ever been on staff and everyone in the area loved her. The attitude that when something bad happens to you, it means you are a bad person, was drilled in over many years.
- Experiencing the difference in Auditing before and after the “golden age of tech” and the redefinition of an F/N; generally the difference between “win” and “no-win.” (Though as LRH says, some wins came through from the actual tech, despite the alterations.)
- SP declares on Lynne’s son and his wife for blowing the SO despite going back and completing a proper routing out cycle, leading to years of disconnection and more tens of thousands in dollars of expense in “handling.”
- Non-stop “Crush Regging” for Money.
- Lynne being treated by the Flag Rep as if she were a piece of property to be commandeered and shipped to Flag like freight.
- An OT Eligibility cycle from HELL for Bert.
- The Basics insanity – financial irregularities with the way our accounts were handled in order to “sell” Basics (we ended up with 10 sets in our basement.)
- After donating $300,000 to the Seattle Ideal Org, we were treated like enemies because we are friends with Tony & Marie-Joe Dephillips – resulting in being denied entrance to the Grand Opening. (See attachment of communication exchange that took place)
- In spite of the promise, in writing, that anyone who donated $5000 or more to the Seattle Ideal Org would have their names on a memorial plaque, our names were deliberately omitted! (See photo attachment.)
- Having all our Scientologist employees quit, including Lynne’s son and his wife, and Scientologist customers stop doing business with our company, because we would not fire Lynne’s daughter for speaking out.
- Being essentially “disconnected from” by Lynne’s son and his wife because we woke up.
Each of the above bulleted items has a long story full of church blunders and other wonders. Feel free to email us for details.
What finally woke us up? The SP Times article was too much to confront at first for Lynne. So she checked out what the church had to say instead. When Tommy Davis asserted that he had affidavits from 22 people that one person had beaten 50 people over a period of years, she immediately thought of the HCOPL “Knowledge Reports” where it says a group that allows such behavior is an out-ethics group. With a gasp she realized that Int Management was an out-ethics group!
Looking up more of Tommy Davis, she heard him lie about there being no such thing as disconnection – after all the disconnection we had gone through! That was like having a bomb dropped on her. Communicating all this to Bert, it turned out that he had already seen enough. After this we were willing to look at anything and evaluate it without the bias that had been inculcated in us over the years. Yes we saw plenty of falsehoods in the anti-church data, but we were finally exercising our right to look for ourselves and to determine for ourselves what was true. And too much of it was true, to be ignored any longer.
Why are we speaking up? Our purpose to help others is very much alive, in spite of these experiences. We still donate to charities that help orphans, the elderly and cats.
We want others in the local field to know that there is someone here to talk to. If anyone under the radar contacts us we will keep their info private until they wish to disclose it.
Now having had a review in the independent field, and an ethics program (NOT the MAA-punishment-to-protect-the-church-from-you-evil-beings type of action, but instead a true program that helps one regain certainty of self-worth,) Lynne wants to assure others that their eternity and their bridge progress are not in jeopardy if they leave the church.
We both feel that no one can force another to stand up and be counted because everybody has their own situation, just as we did. But we hope that our announcement will help inspire others to work through those situations so that they too can stand up.
Most Sea Org members and Staff members are incredible people, who also really want to help. We feel sorry for those people. They are sacrificing so much in their own lives in order to live up to the expectations of upper mis-management. There is so much that needs to be corrected, most of which we have experienced or observed for ourselves: controlled communication, enforced disconnection, forced abortions, unlawful imprisonment, human-trafficking, and demanding huge sums of money from parishioners under false pretexts. These and all other abuses perpetrated by the church must CEASE!
It is interesting that we’re now a family in a group of people with many different viewpoints on the tech and life, and we tolerate them all, just as we should have all along, instead of insisting that only one viewpoint was allowed. Lynne loved her training and wouldn’t trade the gains of going clear for the world. Bert, on the other hand, had some very discouraging experiences, and does not want to have anything further to do with organized religion. Among the large group of those who’ve left the church in the Seattle area, we know people with an even wider range of viewpoints than this, yet now we all get along.
Oh, and in case anyone from the church is reading this, WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK!
Below are our email addresses. We would be glad to help anyone in Seattle or elsewhere. Any OSA-troll or threatening emails will be submitted to the FBI to help their investigation of the church and for individual prosecution under applicable federal laws regarding harassment, hate mail, stalking, etc.
Bert Schippers & Lynne Hoverson
Seattle, WA, USA
bert787@gmail.com and lynnehov@gmail.com
Attachments:
The link below is the email, phone and text message exchange between Bert and Chris Finn, the non-staff, non-HCO lead fundraiser who tried to get us to disconnect from Tony & Marie-Joe DePhillips.
Email_Exchange_with_Chris_Finn
Below is a photo of the Seattle Ideal Org memorial donations plaque. Our names should be listed under the Silver Humanitarians/Excalibur heading. However, they are missing!
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Hello and welcome! Thank you for keeping your integrity in.
Your invitation for the 4th of July party has been sent. 🙂
Bert & Lynne — as one who has personally experienced many similars — FLUNK FOR COMM LAG! 🙂
(please smile as that is supposed to have a significant humorous component to it)
Yup, Marty’s right. Seattle’s rockin’ with the likes of y’all. Can’t help. I hope we meet up at the Ranch. It’d be an honor to shake y’all’s hands.
Very pleased to make yur acquaintance.
Bruce Pratt
Whew!!
Now, I would say get ready for the Fairman Effect to kick in with extra force very soon. Mestsavage is most likely hitting the Scotch really hard right now and seeing FBI agents and martians around every corner. Well, FBI agents for real, quite soon, but perhaps the real Martians will come along some day, but not quite just yet.
Thank you both for sharing and for standing with LRH.
My goodness, the BIS stat for the indies is power trending! I am quite sure there are many more on the way….and I can’t wait to see them arive asap.
Centurion
The simplicity and clarity of your write-up really speaks volumes of what happened. You speak truth. Some of what you wrote I also experienced and as a result exited the C of S too. I hope others also hear/see that truth in what you wrote, compare it to their own experiences and wake up as well. Welcome out and well done on your courage to speak out!
Linda
Thanks for coming forward, Bert and Lynn. I was wondering when we were going to hear from Seattle! Welcome aboard! ML, Songbird
Hey Guys,
Nice to see you here under your real names!
Along with Marty, I also had the pleasure of meeting you both (along with quite a crowd of REAL Scientologists at Tony and MarieJoe’s house) — your desire to help others shines through in this posting, just as it did in person. You are good people — wasted by the C of M because you dared to think a thought that was not “approved.” Happy to have you on our team!!!
“Why are we speaking up? Our purpose to help others is very much alive, in spite of these experiences. We still donate to charities that help orphans, the elderly and cats.”
The Cat is pleased, very pleased. You Sirs are doing it right !
Hi and welcome. What an electrifying write up!! I take my hat off to both of you.
Oh, yeah, baby!! Powerful communication, as always. You two are somethin’ else. I’ve delighted in getting to know you better and am proud to call you friends. As you mentioned the appreciation for differing perspectives, opinions, and viewpoints is definitely being practiced in the Seattle area – it’s an enlightening process in itself 🙂 Namaste
Hello and welcome. I wish to thank you for the help you gave with good intentions. You will find this group of Independent Scientologists to not only accept a variety of viewpoints but relish in allowing all their personal integrity, their own game and we enjoy seeing beings more powerful than ever!
Dear Bert and Lynne,
Congratulations and very, very well done. Quite a story you have. I am so grateful that you have shared it. You are definitely helping others who are working thru the process for themselves.
You might be amazed at what you will experience out from under that suppression. Life becomes amazingly fun and light again. Postulates stick. There is less effort. I had no idea how much happier my husband and I would be. You will experience real quality friendships with the independents.
I appreciate the honor you have shown and hope I will get an opportunity to meet both of you.
Enjoy your win.
ml, Yvonne
Great write-up and, WOW, what a story!! Welcome!
The interesting thing in all of this is how easily they cast you aside. Very upstat by CofS standards, but in the current totalitarian regime, none of your previous contributions seem to matter. Just shows what idiots they are.
Centurion,
Some PR damage control is already occurring. This in an email from Flag:
“It is the PERSONAL TOUCH, caring for the individual, being considerate and helpful, providing a warm, comforting, safe and cheerful atmosphere, being understanding, giving service with affinity, reality and communication, granting another beingness (see Grant Beingness*), respecting others, observing the communication cycle and agreed upon codes of conduct, accepting and granting importance to another, politeness and courtesy, really wanting that person in front of you to win and doing so unselfishly and without reserve.
Tolerance and friendliness of course do not mean lack of control and effectiveness as these things are also part of the ingredients.
The SCARCE commodity in the world today is tolerance! This is one of a person’s greatest assets together with a knowledge of some fundamental truths of life as given here you can greatly aid and assist many, many people.
L. Ron Hubbard
(Article 6 Oct 71, CAMPAIGN-ORGANIZATION FRIENDLINESS)
*Grant Beingness, the ability to assume and grant (give, allow) beingness is probably the highest of human virtues. It is even more important to be able to permit (allow) other people to have beingness than to-be able to oneself assume it.”
End of fair use quotes.
Too bad the church in Seattle, Flag, LA, and everywhere in the world didn’t just read the same LRH material we read and understand it. I doubt they even see the outpoint that what LRH said and what they are doing are complete reversals.
==
I would also like to comment it is completely off policy for a “public” and non HCO staff to be the terminal handling something like this. This action of confronting these two with someone else’s SP declare just “outed” the lie that these (SP declare’s) aren’t published and only made available in HCO at the org. Here a public person had a copy. In contrary facts – one or both are false.Probably, Chris Finn, had more confront than org HCO. Enforced disconnection like this is harassment and borders on a hate crime on religious grounds.
Dear Bert and Lynn,
Welcome and congratulations from a former Seattle org public, me!
So happy to see you both here! Bert, hope you remember me from LOC? You both look great and welcome to the cult-less universe! I just skimmed your write up but what I read was incredibly impinging.
Lynn, please tell your sweet daughter, I said hello!
I’m just thrilled. My best and brightest postulates for you future and your money back! Oh yea!
Thank you for your comments.
You both endured so much stress.
I am happy to hear of your new freedom.
Beautiful write up! It’s real nice to have you here Lynne and Bert. I’m enclosing a big WELCOME hug with this note. xoxoxo
Hahaha! How telling is it that the quadruple humanitarian memorial wall of metorious honor all has temporary, easily removable names on the plaque. Guess even they see the writing on the plaque.
Hello Bert and Lynne.
Your write up was very moving. Thank you so much for sharing it with us and others who are looking for the support they need to make their own move.
I know the letters I read here definitely gave me courage to act. It’s been just a few days since I left the church officially and I can tell you it feels good.
Hope to meet you one day – maybe on Independence Day!
Cindy Pinsonnault
IndyCindy2011@hotmail.com
Well done on looking and keeping your own council. Y’all have landed in a great group of people.
This gives me hope that My family will wake up and start looking at all the outpoints that are right in their face.
Excellent write-up and declaration! I am glad to see that you are following up with refunds and documenting all the past and future communications with the church and it’s various enterprises.
Lynn, I do hope that your son has a change of heart. The crimes of the church will eventually be impossible for even the most hard core to overlook. And on that day there will be another Rennaisance of Scientology as all of the families that have been torn apart will once again be reunited.
Great having you here and looking forward to more friendships reconnecting as the Indies inevitably grow and flourish!
Bert & Lynne!
I recall that for at least twenty years, you two were the big IAS donors of Seattle, time and time again, at all the high-pressure “Call To Arms” bullshit events to “Save France” or “Save Germany”, etc.
And this is how they treat you!
Well, you have spoken up brilliantly, honestly and ethically. I’m proud to call you my friends!
The church is Fucked with a capital F, and it’s goin’ down. Pardon my French, Lynne. 🙂
VWD!
IO
Welcome!
Even though you guys *aren’t* from Texas 😉
Jus’ kidding 🙂
I know we have a big LA contingent who are just under the radar right now.
Lurking and avidly reading all these posts.
For now every things quiet here…..
Like the calm before the storm.
Again I’m glad you are no longer a part of that Squirrel Group any longer.
Ml
RJ
As a 35 yr old man in OKC who has never met in person a CoS member. I have followed the Church for many years and some of my friends and my wife say I am obsessed. ( in some ways they are right ) I jus truly hate the Co DM I really want to see this man tried and fried for his crimes against humanity. He is not a God nor a spiritual leader. He is a douche bag manipulator with a Napolean complex. (to my non educated psychology mind)
To all of you continuing to fight and help people and help them out of this hell on earth shit bag of a religion. ( not the Scientology religion, rather the David Mismanagement religion)
Keep up the fight, it IS falling apart and it will never be the same again. The internet was THE single worst thing to happen to the CoS since DM.
Up your ass DM
thanks Bed Man Okc
Dear Lynne & Bert,
Wow! What a story. In a new unit of time I’m stunned by the callousness dramatized by the Miscavige usurped “church”.
Those still in suffer from a sort of sad noblity. Welcome to the remedy: Out is where it’s at.
ML, Tom
Thanks for your thoughtful update on the continuing insanity that is the Church of Miscavige.
I hope you will experience an incredible resurgence of your power and abilities now that you are no longer connected to the suppressive organization that you have been supporting for so many years.
As you may have already heard, there is a special correction list used by independent auditors to address the upsets caused through associating with the Church of Miscavige. You might want to seek out one of the independent practitioners and get some relief from the wrong indications and out tech you have endured.
You also have every right to demand your contributions back and you should also institute repayment cycles for all money still on your accounts. I have written a number of articles on recovering your unused money on account. If there is any help I can provide, please let me know.
Welcome to freedom and a new life!
David St Lawrence
Dear Bert and Lynn
Here in your notice, the truth of what the Church of Miscavige has become is once again revealed — written with clarity and from experience. Listening to your voices, a dozen others will follow, and dozens will follow each of those. As more and more light is shed on the cruelty of disconnection, the pressure to donate for off-policy causes, the alteration of tech and ethics, and the demand for robot-like, lock step behavior, many are opening their eyes and are beginning to look. And many more will. Thank you and welcome.
Lynne and Bert,
Terriffic post, thank you.
I have always had a fondness with the Seattle field over what now 30 plus years? You exposed an example of what has happened to an outpost area of Scn that has been dedicated since the 60’s, who knows Vancouver will be next.
I don’t know your take is on Mark Arnold but I feel saddened for him, he probably has turned and turned over and over, but he is a good man. It’s all a bloody mess. I hope your post creates a new exolution in the Northweast. Good Luck.
Lynn and Bert,
Help and freedom, ah yes!
Hey Bert and Lynne, Great writeup. I’m sure a weight lifted when you guys decided to come out and no longer need to worry about keeping under the radar. Bon and I are looking forward to many more Pac NW get togethers with you and the rest of the crew.
Mark Elliott
‘Mestsavage’ – I LOVE IT!
In all of Mestsavage’s gilded glory one would think he would at least spring for a permenatly engraved gold colored metal plaque. Heck, it looks to me like the rooster represents a few million dollars in donations.
In the photo of the Seattle Ideal Org memorial donations plaque; It appears that it was intentional that the names of the benefactors look to be mounted in such a way that if one were to suddenly fall from favor in the Church’s eyes then the names would be easy to remove? It seems to me that regardless of the Patron’s status, if the monies necessary to rate a place on the plaque were donated, the benefactor should, rightfully have his or her name included on the presentation, permanently. If not, don’t you think you deserve your contribution back? Mestsavage really is coming across as a vindictive little prick who breeds vindictiveness within his ranks. ‘Glad to see you guys in the sunshine living out from under the cloud that passes for the Church of Scientology today. Ron would be pissed!
Congratulations for both taking charge of your lives and for exposing Mestsavage’s ‘Church for what it really seems to be; A Criminal Fraud!
May you and yours live long and prosper,
AB
Wow, Bert & Lynne are out of the church!
Anyone in Seattle knows that for the last 20 years they have been one of the couples at events that ALWAYS gives something. They were always held up as opinion leaders to get others to contribute. I hope they will all continue to look up to you as opinion leaders and LEAVE THE CHURCH!
Very very well done on seeing the light and having the courage to speak out about it. I am so glad that you have some dox (the email messages from Chris) as well. David Miscabbage’s days are numbered. Many people are leaving. Some are quiet about it and others like yourselves are admirably vocal. As more of us become vocal and use our real names little Davie will be able to see the effects his actions have caused. Others who are watching will also see and the truth will set us all free.
Lynne and Bert – I almost shrieked when I saw your picture on the latest post! Fan-f’ng-tastic! Your write up is so well done, and I know that there is much more you could have included but you probably didn’t want to post this in chapter form : )
Thank you for what is a concise and damning account of the criminal activities of the c of m. I’m very happy for you both (and ultimately, for your family). Now just watch as you once again become OL’s in the Seattle area. As I believe Jeff Hawkins has said, OUT is the new IN.
Lunamoth
Dear Lynne and Bert,
Thank you for tellng your story. It is truly amazing how the Church of Scientology betrays and disconnects from people so easily, who are the source of their Power. They have no concept of the true Power formulas on the First and Third Dynamics. They disconnect from people at the drop of a hat! I experienced some similar things, getting my “burn notice” at the time when my dissemination activities, and my financial contibutions were at a thirty year all time high. They have no idea how many new public they shut off when they so easily “got rid of me”. I was working on a program that would have brought them many new public for years and years and years. But they have no concept of loyalty, or rewarding long term up statistics. They probably have no idea how much of your future HELP they cut off that will now be diverted in a whole new direction. But, the diversion of your help will now be towards the TRUE technology and the TRUE Aims of Scientology, not the perverted shoddy substitute that they fraudulently hold up as being the tech.
One thing that is apparent to me is how the Church is now pulling in “motivators” for all their overts of Disconnection, and failure to flow Power to those who flowed Power to them. Whereas for years they have declared people who could easily have been handled with correct tech, they are now pulling in on a daily basis, people “Disconnecting” from them. Each person that disconnects from them also shuts off all their future contributions AND asks for the return of contributions made in the past. I myself have received no less than 5 repayment checks! Certainly the repaynent/refund requests are a statistic that is rising exponentially! No Doubt their repayment requests are such that it is now in an extreme Affluence statistic. In fact, they seem to have a new waiver form that if signed, could shut off all future repayments, including the IAS, due to the “tricky” language of this new form. Don’t sign them. Modify them the way you want – don’t get tricked into signing them the way that they are written.
Thank you for what you did in the past, and thank you for what I know will be your future contributions to the preservation and the forwarding of the Legacy of the Tech, LRH’s true tech.
Hope to meet you soon, and hope you will be attending the Independents’ Weekend Indie Get-together. Have plans in the near future for a trip to Montana, and maybe I can “swing by” Seattle to meet you and visit with Tony and Marie-Joe and the fine group of Indies of the Pacific Northwest that I have heard so much about.
A BIG HOWDY PARDNERS’ FROM TEXAS AND
YEEHAW!!!!!!!!!!!
Much love,
Catherine von Ach
Hey Bert & Lynne, what an awesome sight to see this announcement! I’m glad you’ve made it public — I’m sure it’ll help plenty of others along the way. 🙂
Hi Guys.
How’s it feel to be free?
I love Seattle!
If you see Mark Arnold tell him an old friend says hi and I can’t wait until he can see again with his own eyes!
May many more follow.
I postulate that Seattle is the first org to go Independent! How’s that for a game in which we can all win!
Hell, with Tony & Marie-Joe on your side, it may have already happened!
FN
Sapere Aude
“Enforced disconnection like this is harassment and borders on a hate crime on religious grounds.”
Very good point.
Being attacked for your religious beliefs = HATE CRIME. Yet another breach of law and human decency engaged in by Scientology Inc. Obviously knew it was happening but had never had it named that precisely. In spite of what Scientology Inc. says they are practicing Religious intolerance.
Thank you for naming it.
WW
Hello Bert & Lynne,
Mafiaology continues to FORCE their friends to become enemies. Miscavige will never understand that the staff and public are the real assets, not fancy buildings or even cash.
If one was to graph the actual assets of Mafiaology they would be straight DOWN and vertical just like its “products”. No organization can continue to contract like that without eventually ceasing to exist.
Bert and Lynne,
What Michael Fairman said. His succinct and eloquent words speak for me.
Lynne & Burt,
It makes me so proud every time I see long term veterans leave the C of S and come out into the open with declarations supporting truth and abandoning lies – once and for all.
Your write up noted, confirmed and validated common experiences lived by all in the Independent field. The fact that our field is growing while that of the C of S lies fallow is a testament to the veracity of these experiences.
It is also a testament to your true nature that you have been so trusting and loyal to the C of S. Only beings with the sincerest of intent to help others could put up with the trials and tribulations that you have and yet carry on undaunted. History will reward you with all of the accumulated good karma you two have generated over your lifetime.
My most heartfelt thanks and best wishes to the both of you as you undertake this new adventure in your lives.
“Man walks outside, stubs his toe… Adventure.” — LRH
Scott
A new “Incredible” has occurred:
Our IT manager, Amer, is of a religion that has nothing to do with Scientology and he could care less about the turmoils in the church. He has created an IT business of his own, establishing and managing websites for many local small enterprises. You can look at our external website at http://www.schippers.com for a view of his product. We’re very satisfied with it and the great intranet system he puts together and manages for us.
One of his customers was our Purchasing Manager who disconnected from us over the religious issue. She’d hired him to design and manage a website for her husband, an artist, and they were very happy with it. Last weekend she notified Amer that she could no longer have him do her IT work, because of his friendship with us. She was polite and friendly, but just “had to” disconnect. Get this, she was emphatic about sending payment for her final bill with a cashier’s check, presumably because she would still be connected to him until her personal check was cashed and reconciled in her checkbook! LOL
This is a man who knows true religious suppression, having lived through the Bosnian War.
Amer is capable, has a good sense of humor, and has helped our company tremendously. I think it would be poetic justice if his loss of this customer because of his friendship with us were to suddenly be paid back double or triple or tenfold by new customers contacting him for their website work. His site is http://www.eastructure.com.
Oh, that’s me the Lynne from the article in case you don’t know why I just threw in a blurb there. LOL
Out of all the calamity of this nightmare situation with the now cult of mud cabbage we found two beautiful and honorable friends.
What a precious gift.
Thank you both for doing the right thing.
Love,
Tony and Marie-Joe
Agreed!
Meow!
Looking up Namaste I found somewhere that it means, “I recognize the divine in you.” I can’t find that again but I like it.
Songbird, the Indies/outies in Seattle are alive & well. Several of us have already come out. More to come … If we were playing a Birthday Game we would be up there with Texas 🙂
Marie-Joe DePhillips
WW,
I personally don’t care if someone wants to remain active in the current Church of Scientology. I would still serve them in my restaurant, treat them as their dentist, be their real estate agent, etc. I wouldn’t care. But the current Church members don’t treat me that way as an Independent. I am immediately put into a category to be shunned, disconnected from, not allowed to work with, not allowed to have my children go to school with, etc.
I disagree that the current Church is doing what I consider standard Scientology per the writings of LRH. This is my understanding. Anyone may have another understanding. But to enforce disconnection due to one’s desire to no longer participate as a member of the “right group” to them is not legal.
Can a church not allow me to participate if I was black, or a jew, or oriental, or transgender, etc. NO. Not in this country. If I decide to change my personal religious affiliation and no longer be affiliated or support a church they may not categorize me as persona non grata
( literally meaning “an unwelcome person”) and force their members to disconnect. Maybe not allow me to attend their church or enter their buildings but involving school, work, social networks, etc has overstepped the line in my opinion.
I don’t find the Independent wants to exclude the current church member. Disconnection is from the church. If OSA determines someone is “disaffected” they begin enforcing disconnection of personal comm lines, facebook friends, etc. This is just plain wrong.
Whomever at OSA monitors this blog should think long and hard on this. The crime involved will be on you personally and not because you were following illegal orders. Read it yourself. The 1964 Federal Civil Rights Law, 18 U.S.C. § 245(b)(2), permits federal prosecution of anyone who “willingly injures, intimidates or interferes with another person, or attempts to do so, by force because of the other person’s race, color, religion or national origin”.
Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.
“Hate crime” generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).
I want all of us Independent’s to be able to practice our beliefs in and use of Scientology as LRH wrote in and spoke it. If my belief does not match yours does not make mine wrong and in no way does it imply I have given up any of my basic human rights nor my constitutional legal rights. I have the same attitude toward those that wish to remain in the current Church of Scientology. If you like what you see and the service you receive and the outcomes then more power to you. But – don’t tread into my world, my space, my family, my friends – you don’t own me and I don’t owe you!
Hi Penny, I definitely remember you. Bert’s sitting next to me and says, “Of course I remember you from the LOC, and it was exciting seeing you when you originally posted on Marty’s blog a while back.”
Hi Kathy, I remember you from days long gone. Glad to see you here too.
You are sharp! We felt that way too.
To Lynne and Bert – What an outrageous story, told so well. I hope everything for you is up from here. You will be helping many others to see the truth and also take a stand. Congratulations.
With love, Amy
PS: I see my old friend Tim Stoner is at the top of that plaque as a “Gold Civilization Builder”. I hope he gets wind of your resignation and opens his eyes to what’s going on…
We still have a wait for my son and his wife but having been through so much on the disconnection lines I have gained a lot of patience. One thing they can’t stop is love, and that will always be there for my son, and through him, for my daughter-in-law. I believe the bible has some good quotes on the power of love, and so do many other philosophies.
Hey, My Man the Okc Bed Man! It was nice to see your comment here. Agreed, totally!!
Amy
Hey Doc, we’d love to see an official announcement with photo & all whenever you & Bon are ready. We’ve got to keep up with Texas after all 😉
Marie-Joe
You just reminded me to add to our credits that we went on the Berlin March and the Paris march. Boy it was fun being run out of town in Paris with a police escort all around the bus!
Well, now I gotta let you in on a little secret. I am a Texas Maggie! If you don’t know what that is, ask and I will explain it a bit further.
I like that postulate!!!!
Lynne & Bert,
Thank you for your write up and announcement. I look forward to meeting you soon!
“exolution”–I don’t know if this was a typo but I LIKE this word!
Yes, remember how scared we were when the photo of Amy Scobee’s book debut summer picnic was taken and we had to stand out of the way? Well, I guess we can bring it now!
Thanks, you rock!
“OUT is the new IN”–I’m lovin’ it, and it’s great to hear from you. I always enjoy reading your posts.
Dear Lynne and Burt;
First of all, thank you for your committment to LRH and all of the work and donations you have done. I say this because I know you were doing the right thing with the data that you had and you did this for LRH. .
Secondly, thank you for waking up and doing a proper doubt formula. Once again, it is for LRH that you do this.
In your bullet points above there was one comment that just got me:
“The death of a dedicated staff member resulting in her being denigrated for abandoning her post and “pulling it in.”
This is what the Church has denigrated to – hate, spite. A staff member works her ass off for years and the tribute to her, when they die of wrong indications and withheld help in the form of no auditing, is to negate all of the good they did while on staff. What an abysmall viewpoint. This is NOT Scientology, it is not even bad Psychology, it is HATE. This is what the church has become.
ML Tom
Woohoo! So great to see your pretty faces on this blog. I so appreciate your guys’ friendship, integrity & courage!!! Glad you were able to see through the bogus SP declare they have on us. Looking forward to travelling with you guys at the Independants 4th of July party.
BTW, Tony & I are also Humanitarians (donated $125,000 +) but surprise, suprise, our names are not on the plaque either.
Marie-Joe DePhillips
Thanks, I think you went through more than we did.
Oop, now I’ve added lots of posts above this so if you didn’t figure this out before, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you….
Mark Arnold is a really good guy. He has been on staff for many years and his dedication is straight from his heart. I too am saddened and if he ever needs help, like the time he needed a place to stay in Los Angeles, I would totally open my home to him, his wife and family. GOOD GUY!
Yep, we luvz cats!
Lynne & Bert,
Wow, what a story!
It was such a pleasure meeting you on New Year’s eve, and equally a pleasure to read your post.
It is atrocious how dedicated public like you are treated after years of service, going above & beyond what is normal and the constant willingness to help and continue Ron’s legacy.
This is a real feather in your caps.
Pat yourselves on the back – well done!
Kindest regards.
Hi Yvonne,
Yes, we have been experiencing that, and it has been wonderful. It’s amazing how many “layers” can peel off!
We have a wonderful group up here in the Pacific Northwest – quality friends no matter if there are differing viewpoints!
Thanks,
Bert
Thanks Bed Man,
Nice to have the moral support of non Scientologists as well.
Napoleonic complex describes the lil’ tyrant quite well.
Anyway stay tuned as things develop.
If your a betting man I’d say the odds are getting better that Dave’s going be getting an all expenses paid vacation at Club Fed soon.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 😉
Hi Alex,
Well, the plaque represents 14 million dollars in donations from the field!
And regarding your point about having donated the money giving one a permanent place on the plaque…ya think? I agree completely…
Bert
Thank you everyone who wrote, your theta is much appreciated.
Hi Lunamoth,
You made me smile!
You’re welcome, and I really hope we help many others by standing up.
Bert
Fascinated by your story – the church “handling” of you is a disaster, so stupid.
Lynne and Bert,
Hello and welcome to the Indies! Each morning I am opening this blog as a first action to see what Scientologists are doing about suppression in the church.
I was so happy to see you today declaring your Independence. As it is important to me, I guess it’s important for everyone on this planet to have a real Independent Scientology, as if real Scientology wouldn’t be Independent.
We are making it Independent again. Free from any bars and Misc-Engrams.
Thank you so much!
Lynne and Bert you guys ROCK!!!
Thanks for speaking out. I’m certain your post will also help others do the same and join us in all our new FREEDOM!!!
Welcome to the INDIES 🙂
Lori
It is interesting to compare the revolution occurring in Scientology right now with those occurring in the Muslim world. As we approach the centennial of LRH’s birth, I wonder if DM has a moment to contemplate the fates of the likes of Mubarak and Gadaffi and how a Scientologically-similar fate awaits him not too far down the track. Instead of bullets flying, though, great folks like Bert and Lynne simply apply TWTH and withdraw their support of a church “government” which clearly no longer works for the benefit of all. Probably, though, he doesn’t have time to consider his future. Groundhog Event is consuming all mental wattage and sleep time on the Int Base these days because this 100th anniversary event has to be exponentially greater than all earlier events–combined but to the 10th power and no one can do anything but DM himself with an assist from the, ahem, “LRH Biographer.” Round and round they go in the squirrel cage of DM’s own making. To anyone who never worked on an Int event–these are invariably often nightmarish affairs that you wouldn’t wish on anyone. Not fun at all.
Hi Lynne & Burt,
great, powerful comm that has a LOT of similarities with what I have and am experiencing – have a few things I want a certain way before I publicly speak up and speak up I will (things are moving rather well, in case you wonder).
The “titles” bestowed onto donors of Seattle Idle Morgue not only read kind of funny and strange but I also know that these titles are (at least used to be) different from one “upcoming idle morgue” to the next. They are literally pulled out of somebody’s hat and given a price tag.
Not being up-to-date on what “price tag” these titles have in Seattle, would you care to list them out here for a quick tally of the money represented by that fancy board (knowing full well that the sum represented is much less than what actually has been donated – starting with your 300K).
Welcome to free thinking and free communication.
And with that, the rest of what still needs to be resolved will dissolve.
Isn’t it amazing how a viewpoint WITH certainty brings the most wonderful feelings of power as a being. Bert and Lynne… May you never BE the same again! And thank you for being you.
Love and ARC,
Gary ( a villager with castle-storming postulates )
LYNN & BURT,
YOU BOTH ROCK AND YOUR STATS ARE AMAZING! IT IS SO UNREAL THAT FOLKS LIKE YOURSELVES CAN BE SNUBBED…I READ IT EVERYDAY NOW, BUT MY REACTION IS STILL LIKE….WHAT THE HELL?? THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DID DO AND NOW FOR SHARING YOUR STORY. YOU ARE RIGHT, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG AND ITS NOT JUST THEIR OWN THINK.
I’M FROM SONOMA COUNTY, CA . HOWEVER, I HAVE BEEN TO WASHINGTON AND IT’S BEAUTIFUL. SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS A GROWING FIELD OF INDEPENDENTS…YEA! I USE TO THINK, WELL I CAN MOVE ANYWHERE AS LONG AS THERE IS AN ORG BUT NOW I SAY, I’LL GO ANYWHERE AS LONG AS THERE ARE INDEPENDENTS DOING THE TRAINING/AUDITING…GETTING TOGETHER!
Catherine, And Bert and Lynne,
Be glad you got your “burn notices”!
Entheta repels theta. In the end, by disconnecting you and other theta beings who would bring in more people, think how many people they actually SAVED from coming into and getting caught by the Church of Mestsavage if they had been brought in by you.
Deep down the Mestsavages KNOW they are succumbing and act to minimize more widespread damage by rejecting theta beings like you, Lynne,Bert, and everyone else they have treated like dirt. Thus, they are protecting others from themselves.
This is perhaps proof that beings, no matter how degraded now, are basically good.
In the end, what can anyone say, but “Thank you for driving me away and keeping me from bringing in any more people for you to victimize!”
Lynne and Bert, I hope you reverse the flow on the Church of Mestsavage and the “false flag” donations programs DM has been running a hundredfold! They owe you BIGTIME in my book!
Dear SA
The did read it but they didn’t duplicate it. That’s why LRH wanted all the staff to do Super Power. that’s why all of use went through the evolution of doing KTL and LOC so that we would be ready for Super Power which would handle this. Of course in his eternal wisdom DM saw that KTL and LOC were arbitraries and cancelled them so that people would go directly on to Super Power and spent ten years and untold millions in dontations building a big building across from Flag to prove that to us but seeing how successful that fund raising evolution was and the fact that by donating to something that would make you more able actually by that action would make you more able the arbitrary of doing Super Power was cancelled and the real solution to clearing the planet is really right at hand realized by and actually being sourced by our great leader who is really more important than LRH because he discovered the natural law that the one shot clear that LRH wrote all the undercuts for, which resulted in what we know as the Bridge was actually an arbitrary and is well on the way to being cancelled. Imagine DM finally was able to clear the deck of all arbitraries on the route to Clear. the new Standard Tech is totally simple now no arbitraries. It is simply give all your money to the Church and you will be instantly Clear and OT to boot. training is simply teaching all regges that they are helping the public by taking their money and the total justification for Hard Sell is that you are truly helping the person in front of you to the degree that you get all of his money. He goes Clear and OT to the degree that you remove all of his MEST. You are doing him a great disservice leaving him even a plug nickle as berift of all his crutches he will have to make it go right to even get home on the subway thus demonstrating his new state of OT. Operating Thetan. There is nothing left of him but his Thetan so you in fact forced him to operate and raise his necessity level to that of Operating Thetan. Poor David has been sooo misunderstood and I don’t understand why all of you grousers don’t just run to the bank and empty it and bring your money down to your local ORG. You will feel sooo much better if you did.
Chris Finn is an ass of the lowest order. He should WC ‘friendship’.
Lynne and Bert,
Congratulations on your marvelous ability to act in concert with your observations.
Also, those emails and instant messages from Chris are NOT full of ARC, but are 1.1. They’re also weasly, in that he didn’t want to say on paper what he was willing to say in person — in other words, no incriminating paper trail.
Seems like Seattle’s turning into the sunshine capital of the West Coast. Goodbye, rain!
Just Me
Hello, the sun shines on this side of the fence.
I’m sure you will flourish & prosper now, splurge on it – OK?
Lynne and Bert,
Thank you for your write up. I am working on being out myself. Some days it is a little hard to confront. But, then I read a post like this and I have renewed strength and courage to take the next step. If I get my act together, I hope to meet you at the Independent celebration. Congratulations! And, thanks for keeping your Code of Honor in. 1 SP
Sapere Aude,
In todays church, being here on the same terms as the rest of us, takes on new meaning. The further up the bridge you are, the more responsibility you are supposed to take. You are expected to be as close to an SO member as possible, even when you are trying to be a pc or pre-OT. This guy would have hell to pay on his next elig cycle if he didn’t do this. Now, he will have a big feather in his cap for “taking responsibility.” And that is how you get people to turn on their friends. It’s a save your own ass mentality. Survival of the fittest. I had an OT8 recently betray a trust and break a promise to me. It was to get herself off the hook. She seemed amazed, I wouldn’t understand. Friendship is relative in todays church. 1 SP
Very good. I didn’t catch that either. Thanks.
Good point where you state: “Church members don’t treat me that way as an Independent. I am immediately put into a category to be shunned, disconnected from, not allowed to work with, …”
This can certainly bring up legal issues in the case of employment, real-estate transactions or rental agreements. Many radical scientologists are in the real-estate business as brokers or rental property owners. I’d like to see independents or SP’s 🙂 try to purchase property or rent with them and be refused due to their association with members of this blog. That would be a great undercover investigation to try out.
As far as church participation, I believe you can be refused entry on religious grounds and the courts will likely stay out of that.
Bert –
We spoke by phone a month or so back about our similiar horrendous AOLA eligibility cycles. It was a great conversation!
Glad that you have now left the church in a vocal fashion. Every person who speaks up makes it easier for the next person to leave.
Do make sure you get whatever corrections you need and continue your journey up the Bridge!
– Ron Matlock, getting close to wrapping up the Clearing Course as an independent
Lynne and Bert,
Welcome to freedom! Lynne I hope you remember me as your reg at times.
Sorry to hear about Dannar’s mess but I’m at least glad he’s out. He never seemed like a very happy guy when I knew him. I hope that’s better now.
I wish you guys all the best on this adventure. Well done for standing up and being counted. We all went through our own stuff getting to that point. I guess it’s time to re-build things from scratch….but not quite, thanks to Marty, Mike and all the rest who have made the Independent Scientology field a force to be reckoned with.
I hope to see you at the Independence Day celebration in Texas.
Hy Levy
Great job guys!!
YES, GET YOUR MONEY BACK!!!!
I’m here if you need anything:
skusada2010@gmail.com
Lots of love and see you on the 4th of July!!!
I think the problem is less with the disconnection than with way declares are handed out. Somebody has a disagreement, asks too many questions, communicates to the wrong person or a number of other things and are declared an SP, often without a Comm-Ev apparently.
This creates a situation where hundreds, or probably thousands of people are declared “SP” who are not suppressive. If you have been a Scientologist for a while you probably have friends or someone you thought “hey, that guy isnt an SP…too bad he’s declared…oh well..” .
That situation is going to cause problems. I mean, how could it not cause problems. Who would do such a thing and be so arrogant to not see that it would cause problems.
Then the problems it creates are blamed on people like Lynne and Bert. All the unworkability of this system is layed on your lap.
AO,
Understood. I wrote “Maybe not allow me to attend their church or enter their buildings but involving school, work, social networks, etc has overstepped the line in my opinion.”
I should have written “or enter their buildings, but, …..
I meant they could stop me from attending their church and entering their buildings. This doesn’t extend to where my children to to school, my work and who I work with, my friends on social networks, etc.
I will always give the C of S the right to exclude me from their own spaces and internal events. It steps over the line with forcing their “will” external from the Church. That is where the laws of the state, country, etc prevail. My rights as a sovereign citizen trump their hatred of my viewpoint and intolerance of the Independent thinking and acting Scientologist as a whole.
Amen! Here’s to no one owning anyone!!
Lynne and Bert,
How heartening to have incredible beings like yourselves speak of the patience you’ve had to gain on disconnection lines. …The things still occurring for us in that regard are still just too unreal and shockingly unbelievable even as we witness them occurring.
Thank you for that shot of strength in dealing with this evil in all our lives. And welcome, in the very full sense of the word.
gandiguy,
What a witty, sad and truthful summary! I think some of us “grousers” still believe in exchange and integrity. This blog is one of our “watering holes” (one of my other favorite watering holes is beside me in red, green and blue.) When I look around – I see a group of happy sane friends! Looking “over there” and I see all the theta leaving the MEST. Me thinks we be on the correct side of things.!!
Lynne and Bert,
Fantastic write up and sure to help open some eyes to what is going. You both have done a lot to help Scn in Seattle and beyond. The way the C of S treated you when you started to question the outpoints is disgusting.
Looking forward to visiting with you both soon.
Some people are looking for opportunities to “give a blow to the ennemy” to make up for their transgressions & come back in the good favor of the Church. All of us Indies/Outies ar opening the door to all sorts of opportunities. Saying that you have refused service or disconnected from a client/employer/employee/family member … despite “personal danger” I’m sure goes a long way these days. It’s the kind of mentality/culture we are dealing with.
It does it make it all right or more acceptable to us. But I’m sure it does for them. Another sad part is that they really think that they are amongst the greatest Human Rights Defenders.
Welcome Lynne and Bert! What a well-written declaration. It totally communicates your new position and why you have opted for this new position. We embrace you!! Hallelujah
Dear Lynne and Bert,
Thank you for speaking out. You paint a vivid picture. I wish you had never had to experience the SUPPRESSION from the church that has become a cult under the leadership of the SP David Misciaviage. I’m sure you will flourish and prosper now and they better give you every penny back!
Lynne and Bert,
I do not know either of you but I think you just rang the bell’s at the local “Church”.
Welcome welcome indeed. Your photo got my interest, since I do have a need for electronic assembly. I quickly found the Schippers and Crew website, and I am very happy at the prospect of dealing with real Scientologists! I’m sure your business will do even better now that you are dealing with truth.
Hey MJ, I’d like to find a clear cop of the picture the church has of us in thier book of SPs at the front door, but I’m afraid I threw away the original. We’re not big on photographs, but I’m sure something could be done. Since Amy outed me on TV in her talk in Germany I felt it unneccesary to make a declaration, but if that is needed and wanted we sure will. What say you all?
Should have guessed there was a TX connection in there somehow. : ))
Lynne,
I wrote above about this type of discrimination. I saw your site last night and it is great. He does great work. DM, OSA, etc are violating basic tenants of LRH, of truths is many faiths. I wish the following to provide some solace to how things really should be. We, who see the insanity, know what LRH intended for a goal of no war, no crime and the expansion of basic goodness. There are still those who do not understand or purposefully don’t want this to be. Sad but true. We shall prevail.
congratulations Bert & Lynn,
As for Bert being disheartened by religion, you’re not alone. I went through the same thing. There’s a cycle of understanding involved.
This whole process of individuals freeing themselves from the radical Church of Scientology parallels what LRH described in early dianetics auditing. Freeing up attention units so that the organism can make rational observations (minus the held-down sevens) toward improved survival and reality.
I view each individual as an attention unit of the 3rd dynamic. Each is capable of rational observation and logical conclusions, but can become fixated in some computation. The problem with an engram was simply that attention units got trapped in irrational computations. And the Church is operating just like an engram: fixation of attention units in an irrational series of commands and computations.
If you aren’t allowed to make your own observations (integrity) then your power as a being is diminished and your ability to reach logical conclusions is hampered.
The long and short of auditing has always been freeing up attention (awareness) to increase one’s ability to make accurate observations and come to logical decisions. So, this web site and others serves as a third dynamic auditing process to do just that.
It’s not a perfect process. Confusions get stirred up and mostly blow away. Attention gets fixed at times on the irrelevant and irrational, but, what the hey–life goes on.
One of the things LRH always stressed was getting more from your efforts than was expended. That’s the key to survival. That’s what life was doing when it was successful. And when you sent a person down the track with a hundred free attention units you wanted the session to end with the pc having more than a hundred units available to him/her. You wanted to retrieve the attention locked up in the engram or lock or secondary. You wanted a gain on your investment. You wanted a valuable return for your efforts.
And, here, we see lives being freed up, attention being freed up, opportunities restored, purposes rehabilitated.
Another thing that LRH talked about was when the basic personality was misaudited or mishandled, he would just quit, would just stop trying. DM (a third dynamic demon circuit if there ever was one) just wants slaves. He has no intention of freeing up attention or ability in anyone. The more who quit trying to understand that the accent for LRH was on ability, the better. If we all lay down and died, he would have won. Every person who gives up Scientology after draining their bank accounts and going into life-crushing debt is a win for the demon circuit.
When we quit, he wins.
Problem for him: we don’t quit. We just keep gaining attention units and awareness and observations. We just keep gaining abilities. While the demon circuit just keeps dramatizing the same old, same old.
So who’s going to win?
Michael
The tally you get could be inflated. In the trend toward distorted statistics, here is some data. Here in Texas, everyone was being strong-armed to donate to the Dallas Idle Org, including people who had loyalty to the Austin org (I’ll skip some other out-ethics, off-policy tactics). As a solution, donations to ANY idle org were credited to the status at the others. Hence, if someone gave $20K to Austin and $80K to Dallas, they were listed as “Humanitarians” with a $100K donation on the status at both Austin and Dallas. Lies, lies, and statistics.
Great points SA & WW,
Despite the fact that Fair Game & Disconnection were canceled as LRH saw it as a PR issue, it still is widely enforced & practiced within the ‘Church’ – my wife & I have also been on the receiving end of this too. Granting of beingness and the ability to recognize real friends has been thrown out the door. People who have helped are discarded like trash … unfortunate.
Not only does this raise legal issues, it is a human rights issue. I think any rational person would be repulsed at these acts.
If Tommy Davis & David Miscavige are so adamant in saying that Disconnection & Fair Game are non-existent, then why don’t they put out some sort of directive to ‘Church’ members to get back in comm with families & friends and repair the damage done.
After-all Miscavige seems to be very busy & able to come out with ‘new’ tech, policy, Axioms, Auditor’s Code, F/N definition, etc, etc.; to promote communication, it seems, would be a small thing to ask.
But then, he is likely too busy finding other things to ‘improve’.
Always glad to hear when up stat thetans leave DM’s church. It’s truly the only way his decline is assured. Congrats!!!! 🙂
+ 2!!
Welcome Bert and Lynne wow you both certainly experienced all that the C of M had to offer! Well done to the two of you and I look forward to meeting you both. I know your lives will be filled with love, peace and prosperity. Love Carol
Gandiguy,
“in his eternal wisdom DM saw that KTL and LOC were arbitraries ”
Well, he would know, since he’s the one who put those arbitraries there. When the money flow stopped, and people started realizing they’d been slowed down on their bridge progress, he dumped them and put in a new “solution” (read: new arbitrary.)
Hi Mrs. Friend of Ron,
Thanks, and you have friends here for sure!
You would not recognize Mark Arnold for the beautiful thetan he used to be. He is in so deep it’s incredibly sad. ‘Nuff said.
From both of us, thank you Amy. We would love to see Tim Stoner open his eyes but he is in for over 3M on the building so it would be hard for him to confront the enormity of what is really going on. Deep sigh!
Hi Samuel, looking forward to you speaking up when ready.
Here are the donation amounts for the “levels” on the plaque:
Alumni: $5000+
Vanguard Club: $10,000+
Vanguard with Honors: $20,000+
Benefactor: $35,000+
Premier Benefactor: $50,000+
Humanitarian: $100,000+
Humanitarian with Honors: $150,000+
Silver Humanitarian: $250,000+
Gold Humanitarian: $500,000+
New Civilization Builder: $1,000,000+
Gold Civilization Builder: $3,000,000+
Congratulation Lynne and Bert,
your declaration is very straight forward. The church is DEAD and you are proving it.
How can someone with some salt in his brain treat his major contributors, and people that have always been there to help like they did?
Disconnection, out tech, misapplication of ethics and Justice tech.
Oh my GOD.
Yes at least, but I would say AT LEAST :
GET YOUR MONEY BACK
This has to come to an end.
FBI….. FBI…….. FBI…..
GARY BALDI & the Italian Battallion
Joe,
“great folks … simply apply TWTH and withdraw their support of a church “government” which clearly no longer works for the benefit of all. ”
Great point! I hadn’t thought of that.
Hi Jewel, there’s an indie group in Elma, WA for the wet side of Washington and one in Coeur d’Alene for the dry side. LOL
I’m chuckling, 1SP, because you are thanking us but part of the journey was the support from you and lots of others like you who were at least willing to speak up from behind a screen name, so I thank you and all of them too.
I’d bet the house that “permanent engraving” doesn’t have any use within the CoS. In fact DM’s probably labeled it “out-tech” altogether.
(Also how tacky does that look for a “memorial plaque” the whole point of those things is they are written in stone, to never be forgotten or altered.)
Their behavior has always reminded me of Stalin’s Disappearing Bolshie propaganda tricks – after his “comrades” became enemies he conveniently erased them from all photographs and historical records. http://www.newseum.org/berlinwall/commissar_vanishes/reinventing.htm
It’s always scary when dictators are deluded enough to think they can rewrite history (and alter the truth) to fit their agenda. But, they will always live in fear those who know better.
Thank you Lynne and Bert and a warm welcome to the Independents. After decades of dedication the ‘church’ drops you like a hot potato, as if you now have a deadly desease which travels through eye contact. Any staff involved in your ‘handling’ will want to cover their asses to not get into a huge trouble by asserting ‘ Tony and Marie-Jo did it, it was too late to salvage them’. Oh yes how convenient, no need to look what the out-tech was.
Lynne, Dannar and his wife are no strangers to me; we know each other from Flag. Dannar would always make a point to greet me in my native tongue. I got the idea he loved languages and wanted to learn new concepts all the time. His wife is a doll. I so hope they wake up really soon.
Dear Hy,
When Danar blew we actually tracked him down (largely with Mother’s Intuition and a few clever sleuthing tricks) and flew 1800 miles to knock on his door and get him to go back and route out properly so that he WOULDN’T get declared! At that time as we talked over coffee, he knew his reasons for leaving, though of course he wouldn’t really say them to us. The unfortunate part is that he’s now gone back into the mold so thoroughly that he doesn’t even remember what his reasoning was for blowing the Sea Org. But he’s such a good guy that someday he too will wake up again. Love, Lynne
I love your puppet! And the points your are making!
I did not realize that anyone would recognize the equipment in the photo. I guess it takes one to know one. LOL
Many good points, Onceup!
There’s now no doubt that the sawed-off psychotic usurper hates Seattle.
WOW!!! on the video, SA.
Go for it!
AO, You brought up a very good point and I believe there are many Scientology based businesses and schools that are walking a very tight rope.
For example, I know for a fact that Delphi states they do not discriminate bases on religion, ethnicity, etc. Yet, I have heard repeated examples in which children who attended these schools were either shunned or pressured to disconnect from family members who are speaking out.
Any Scientology based employer who does this is also breaking the law and can be prosecuted. There are several known cases where people have sued Scientologists for wrongful termination just because they chose not to become a Scientologist. This would be applicable if a person chose to stop being a member of the church as well.
In the past, these disconnection practices may have worked as a way to silence those leaving the church but as more and more Independents (or those simply choosing to leave completely) start finding out what the laws are and what their rights are, having moved up through the fear band, these individuals are now willing to practice their rights. That means using refund for false promises, suing for damages in disconnection, etc.
Those public who tow the line of the church and practice disconnection willy-nilly may find themselves on the wrong side of the law for doing so. Eventually someone will take this action to court…Scientology businesses are not immune to following the laws of the land. I guess at this point the Scientology business person has to confront what is more important to their survival…their eternity in the church…or their physical and financial freedom in society.
Especially IAS money
Hello Bert and Lynn,
Great to have you here. I have not been coming over for quite some times because of work but man…. it is great to see you and your wife on that picture. I don’t know if you remember me, but I worked with Bill Bertinot (who is out of the SO). I was at ASHOD during that time. I met you many times while Ruthie Discher and Paul Discher were there. I left in 2007.
Great for you !!! You must now be back with your family who was declared…. good job guys. Love to see U again one day. Why not in Seattle or here in France (Paris).
Yes, I noticed this too and it made the whole plaque seem very tacky and unprofessional.
QS,
DM enforces it because it is one of his creations. Per the following document this PL did not originate with LRH therefore it would be in the same category as a BPL and not senior to LRH policy. So, in essence, Disconnection is the “improved” version. It was before he got busy on improving the other items mentioned.
Vaughn Young declaration in lawsuit
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO
Civil Action No. 95-K-2143
begin quotes
CLAIMS TO AUTHORSHIP
29. I have personal knowledge that material was written and issued under the name of L. Ron Hubbard that he did not author. While working at ASI, I personally wrote material to be issued under his name for several years. This ranged from simple messages to be sent to various organizational staff on events such as his birthday or a holiday, to my composing an entire large directive that was issued under his name. In these instances, they were done without his knowledge or consent. The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of “Disconnection”. The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology. I might note that at the time I was not working for the Church of Scientology, but was working for a for-profit corporation.
end quotes
If it’s a picture you need, I’ll come & take one of you myself as soon as I’m back in town. I’m sure many would love to put a face on you guys & hear your story. A fantastic story it is. It deserves its own entry on this blog 🙂
“It is interesting that we’re now a family in a group of people with many ‘different viewpoints on the tech and life, and we tolerate them all, just as we should have all along, instead of insisting that only one viewpoint was allowed”.
I cannot agree more with you!! I think this is the winning spirit of a big family and a prospering group!!
Love 😀
I too have given a lot of thought on the parallels of what’s happening in the East to what’s occuring in the church. It is disheartening to realize that the world would probably be a much better place if Scientology had been allowed to be applied and expand as LRH had intended. The last thirty years have left the planet in a state of decay when it should have flourished.
As I see so much violence in an effort to speak one’s voice, I am consoled by the fact that here, within the Independents, we have and are getting our voice heard by fully applying the Aims of Scientology, reminding me again of the hope that there is for the future using LRH’s tech.
Remember when “new” math came out? This is the church’s “New, new” math.
The church continues to hemmorage lies.
Welcome to the other side of the LOOKING glass!
Thank you for your courage to look and find out for yourselves.
It is a high crime that you have been treated so wrongly.
It is the CoS that is in Treason, against humanity.
What do Mubarak, Gaddafi and Miscavige have in common?
Answer: The Internet and the FREEDOM to COMMUNICATE.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 18.
* Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or beliefe, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19.
*Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardles of frontiers.
EXCELLENT Sapere Aude!
B & L
Your photo of the “plaque” of donors names causes me to notice how cheaply done it is. Not only are the names clearly meant to go on and come off easily without damaging it (an indication that dm thinks that it’s going to happen that he has to remove people), but the materials look inexpensive and the “plaque” (really just a sign) itself doesn’ t look permanent.
With all the money that has gone into the ideal org, you would think someone could have made this a thing of beauty, from materials that reflect permanence and integrity.
Sometimes you can tell a lot from the little things.
(Latest leak from Int:)
Religious Technology Center
Office of COB
*TOP SECRET * CONFIDENTIAL *
DRAFT (not to be issued until further notice)
Subject: Please, Stop Leaving the Church!
Dear Valuable Parishioners,
It has been brought to my attention that more and more parishioners are leaving the Church and becoming ‘Independent’ Scientologists. When this was first pointed out to me I of course got furious, thought the exec was trying to kill me by putting entheta on my lines so I punched her in the head multiple times before having her thrown into the Hole.
This kept happening over and over. Finally, I said to myself “Darn it! I think something needs looking into.” So after a six-day-no-sleep all hands eval, and having thoroughly reviewed the stats, by golly I must admit that I have come to the same conclusion as the last eleven execs who I punched in the face and threw in the hole for bringing me the exact same news…that disgruntled parishioners ARE leaving in droves, we’re not producing auditors like we were before GAT, the general public now hates us, Tom Cruise has not made a good mascot, and I’ve been drinking too much Scotch. Holy Cripes!
First of all, let me just tell you that I have punched myself in the face one-hundred and eleven times over this. I felt it was only fair since I punched each of those eleven execs ten times each. So, see? I’m fair!
Now to the point of the matter…leaving. Why? Why? Why? Why are you leaving? We are at the turning point on this planet! Yes, the SPs are yapping louder than ever before. Yes, the FBI is investigating the Church for human trafficking. Yes, the media is all over us like flies on you know what. But…
those reports will eventually just blow into the wind and disappear, you’ll see. Yes, it’s been rough, but we just have to hang in there.
I’ve stopped hitting people, OK? I’ve stopped. No one’s hitting anyone anymore. That was a bad strategy, I admit. Awful. I’m sorry about that. I thought it would help, but it didn’t. Besides, I never hit any public, just staff. But I do admit that I went a little whacko with the hitting thing. Hey, it’s a lot of pressure trying to clear a planet and I went a little overboard. Sorry.
OK, now on to the ‘squirreling’ stuff about me…the books and the FNs and stuff. OK, maybe it was a bit overzealous on my part to insist on the three swing thing. Again, I thought it would help bring about a more thorough EP, but after comm-eving just about every auditor in the Sea Org and putting everyone through hell and destroying just about every case in the Church and driving examiners literally into mental institutions, I cry uncle…it was wrong, at least in application. In theory it seemed right, but ultimately I found that I had an MU on the word ‘rhythm’. Whooda thunk it? Ha! Oh well. Give me a little credit for trying, huh? All apologies.
Everybody’s all upset about the books! Christ! The paper is a lot better! The chapters are laid out better! There’s a better index! Better goddamn covers! So, we had to switch a few words around for copyright purposes and legality and clarity and stuff, but so what? The gist of it is still there. And they sold like hot cakes! Come on! Cut me just a little slack, would you?
OK, so the saluting the dog thing was just plain wrong. Hey, I claim Scotch overdose, alright? Again, the pressure…man, the pressure just drove me nuts. And the booze. And my O/Ws. Hey, who could I get my O/Ws off to? Ray Mitthoff? He turned into a milktoast weakling. If he’d have punched me back I’d have some respect for him, but he didn’t. No one punched me back. I’ve been alone in the wilderness. The only one who I would have even considered to let audit me…blew when I wasn’t looking!
The Golden Pillars and all the stage antics, alright, alright I got a little carried away with that too, alright? I admit it. Hey, I thought people would dig it. After Ron left, I thought there ought to be some kind of powerful symbology thing and I thought I could step into those shoes. I thought my staff would support me in this, but I was wrong. The only support I have is a bunch of vindictive wives and some sniveling cry-baby worn out lackies like Yager and Starkey and Leserve. Shit, Heber’s the only one who threatened to hit me but he’s getting too old.
Next, the money…OK, so I triple-dipped into the cookie jar like a crazed monkey inside a truckload of bananas. I was blinded by the bling and the cha-ching, OK? What do you want me to say? Sorry? Look, I’ll put the money back and sell the jewelry on eBay and donate it to the Sea Org retirement fund or something. On the bright side, all my insane pushing for money sure increased the reserve coffers of the Church, so I should get some credit for those stats, huh? Should buy me some kind of protection!
Another point, I know you’ve all been concerned about how I personally haven’t gotten audited in like…decades…or something, I know. You’re right. OK, so I’ll submit, I’ll go in session. Who’s gonna audit me? It’s gotta be somebody with some altitude, ’cause everyone’s scared shitless of me and I can’t have an auditor sitting across from me who’s teeth are chattering and beads of sweat coming down their forehead. Who the hell’s it gonna be?
Next, the grounding rods. Hey, that was a joke, OK? A joke. Ha ha. I’m done with the grounding rod thing. Forget about it.
Another thing, Tom Cruise. Alright, alright, alright. I know it looks bad. Seems like too much man-love going on there. But, we’re straight, really. I did too many favors for him. And I used Church resources to build him stuff and give him stuff and all that. It’s true. But Christ Almighty, we’re talking TOM FRICKIN’ CRUISE here! Yeah, I wanted to kiss his ass! But I did it a little too openly and it’s given Scientology a bad name and it’s set a bad example and I kissed his ass too much to the detriment of too many Sea Org members and…I’m sorry about that. I’ll stop already, OK?
Let’s see…what else? Oh! The Ideal Orgs or as you Independents call them, Idle Morgues. Ha ha. Yeah, real funny. Hey, most of the orgs were pieces of shit. It’s true! Most of the Class V orgs sucked as far as appearances go. Just dumpy looking. Upstat public didn’t wanna go there. It wasn’t just Tom Cruise who prompted me to take drastic action, I did my own tour and my own looking and they were mostly dumpy, shitty, crappy places. Now look at them! Voila! They all look cool! A place where upstats would feel good about entering. Org staff have been dying for these types of buildings for years. In the past they practically would have killed to have a building like one of these Ideal Orgs! Well, I got the buildings and I didn’t have to kill anyone and no one had to die. Well, maybe a couple. But not many. So sue me!
OK, then there’s the Objectives thing. Well, since I wasn’t bequeathed any actual OT levels beyond OT VIII, what do you want me to do? I don’t know what happened to ’em. LRH said he left ’em and then I thought Broeker had ’em but then it turns out he didn’t. I don’t know. Maybe Broeker burned them to get even. We could whip some up out of the PDC lectures or Creation of Human Ability processes or something. Why not? They’ll be better than that crap Bill Robertson came up with I guaran-goddamn-tee you THAT!
OK, the Golden Age of Tech stuff, OK, OK, OK, OK! UNCLE! UNCLE! It was too much already! I was trying to overcome a lot of stupidity, OK? People just didn’t seem to be getting it. Too many pharmecueticals in the drinking water or something, I don’t know. I thought it would speed things up but I was wrong. We need to just go back to the old way of doing things. I think I went a little bonkers after the IRS win. Gave me some kind of God Complex or something. Sorry.
OK, what else is on the list? Abortions? Forget about it. There’s no more anything on abortions. That policy didn’t work. We’ll reinstitute family time and it’s OK to have kids, OK? I was wrong. Again.
Cursing, screaming, hitting, choking, kicking, threatening, spitting, RPF, all that crap I’m done with. All Freeloader bills are cancelled. All SP declares are cancelled. Days off, vacations, personal time, all reinstituted immediately. Sea Org pay is tripled. No more crush regging. All the GAT stuff is all cancelled. LRH’s picture goes back in the magazines, I know I was starting to hog up the space with all those photos of me, sorry. Live and learn.
OK, one additional thing…all the private-eye horse crap that I’ve been pulling on people, it’s over. Sorry, I got carried away with that too. My apologies to everyone. I blame Broeker, he trained me on that stuff. Also, all those spy movies I became obsessed with.
And just to show my sincerity and demonstrate good will, the RTC hereby grants legal rights to all Independent Scientologists to use whatever copyrights or materials they wish in their delivery of the Tech. And to top it off, not only is an amnesty granted to all inside and outside the Church (yes, including me) but a special grant from the IAS is now available to all former Sea Org members who are now delivering in the field, consisting of a complete set of Scientology materials including books, meters, tapes, manuals, policies and bulletins, hats, pins, t-shirts, jackets, bookmarks, calendars, pens, etc. All for free! Ha! How’s THAT for making up the damage?
Also, all directives, EDs, advices, etc. that are not of LRH origin are hereby cancelled. All my crap on gang-bang sec checking and SRAs and whatever other destructive dung that I or anyone else put into the mix is hereby cancelled cancelled cancelled.
Another thing…since I’ve already been bold enough to cancel LRH stuff in the past that I really shouldn’t have, let me now cancel all the stuff on disconnection and fair game, finally…officially…forever. Yes, it came from LRH. Yes it is unworkable. Yes it should be discontinued and cancelled. So be it. If anyone doesn’t like that they can lump it. Oops, sorry, didn’t mean to get harsh there. Trying to change my ways and all.
Oh yeah, I forgot one thing…all the secret cameras and recording equipment in all the auditing rooms are hereby ordered removed and from now on will only be used for training purposes with the permission of both PC and auditor. Sorry about that. Got carried away with that, too.
Well, I hope all these changes meet with the approval of all you valuable parishioners. After all, without you we truly would be just a bunch of empty buildings. Again, sorry about the past, but you know what they…I mean LRH…says, “Never regret yesterday, life is in you today and you make your tomorrow.”
Much Love,
David Miscavige
New Happy COB
New Friendly RTC
It is a beautiful thing to see the tyrants across this planet receiving the spotlight and ultimately, the fate they deserve. Mankind is reaching for freedom and I, for one, am delighted. Lynne and Bert, you are not alone. You are helping to hold up the spotlight in the proper direction for the best view.
Welcome to freedom to……………………………….>
For those of you who are getting away from the Co$ and David Mismanage. We are in Oklahoma and lets just say: That shit doesnt fly around here, we would run off any out of towners coming and making a scene and trying to bully people here into returning. We would bully The Bullies, repeatedly and send these jagoffs back to Hemet or Clearwater or wherever the hell they are from.
If you need a place to unwind for a day or two or three of four. Send your emails to bedmanokc@yahoo.com
I am not a former or current member and have actually to my knowledge never even met one. I truly despise the Co$ and David Mismanage and will do my small part to help anyone who needs a safe place to go and get their thoughts together.
Bed Man Mike
Lynne,
You gotta give us the 411 on what a “Texas Maggie” is ?
Hi Eman,
Yes I remember you. Is Paul Discher out of the SO?
Unfortunately we were back in comm with the family that was declared (Danar & wife), but they have now essentially disconnected from us. I hope your situation with your daughter has improved – last I remember you commenting that she disconnected from you? You can email me at bert787@gmail.com.
And definitely look us up if you are in Seattle and I’ll do the same if we are in Paris!
Lynne & Bert,
Welcome to the Independents! It’s quite amazing how many arbitraries & reverse tech instead of the usual expected actions as laid out in LRH Policies, no-answers, and just plain Mafia tactics are brought up in your bulleted points! Goes to show that RS doesn’t read or apply TWTH other than using it to secure donations to distribute in 3rd world countries for PR purposes.
SA
Yep .. I know about that one.
I was just looking at the general disconnection policy that was in effect in the ’70s which was canceled early on and then re-instated by DM.
Despite Tommy’s continual assertion that there is no such thing (although he has waffled a bit on that), it is alive & well and promoted as a way to show one’s allegiance or getting the ‘entheta’ off one’s lines.
I had a couple of people recently disconnect under the guise of Code of Honor – “Do not give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it”.
I stand by the Code of Honor myself (or at least try to be it as close as possible – they are innate traits) but when it is used as as a basis for anyone to shirk confronting a situation, a difference of viewpoint or a simple comm cycle, it is a degrade.
One of these people was a recent OT VIII comp. Sheesh – that’s a helluva product – top of the Bridge, and he can’t/must not communicate. Suppressed or what?!? Regained self-determinism? Nope
All it says to me is that there is gross PTSness of staff & public who condone & submit to such a practice. I feel for them but gosh, it’s time to wake up.
Hilarious!!!!
OTDT.
Too bad that mea culpa ain’t ever gonna happen on Dave’s watch.
The guy’s made a deal with the devil and he plans to keep it.
Lynn and Bert ~~
Thank you so much for this articulate and clear resignation which completely dovetails with report after report and report after report of the THUGGERY and ABUSE with the “Church” of Scientology.
I would say that the KEYNOTE and HALLMARK of DM’s CULT is ABUSE.
You said
Inquisition-like ethics cycles at Flag with two MAAs reading the meter, baiting and badgering and then threatening expulsion for being upset with an MAA.
Exported right from SP Hole ! DM’s valence, thuggery and enforcement in order to overwhelm ~~ trickling down to outer orgs……
It happens in Mexico, it happens in the UK, it happens in Australia and God knows where else.
Suck out the last penny from you and then batter you and
…
Flag Rep (treats you) as if a piece of property to be commandeered and shipped to Flag like freight.
Impostering itself as a “Church”
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Approved ___________ Disapproved _Quicksilver_
Hilarious OTDT … man … this is the best one yet!
Thanks for the laughs!
Thank you Lynn it is a team product…
love
Oh … that ‘Disapproved’ is for Miscavige, not you 🙂
“Well, I hope all these changes meet with the approval of all you valuable parishioners. “
I have not seen Lynne and Burt for years, like Marie-Joe and Tony were stalwart members of the Seattle org.
I am sure there is a huge hole in that group with these folks gone. I am sure we will see more Seattle members leaving following the lead of these opinion leaders.
I have always kept at arms length to the church. I just figured it was my aversion toward groups. But now I see it was my intuition.
I have talk to a mutual friend in Seattle and he has also moved away from the org. Was a bit touchy to find out how he felt. I am sure there are many of us that have move away, but are not willing to become targets. We are reading and keeping track of these sites to see how this is developing.
I was waiting for someone to bite on that so I could tell the story!
A Texas Maggie is a woman who puts her husband through school at Texas A&M University. In my case, my first husband had gotten a B.S. in Physics at CalTech, and an M.S. at the University of Washington, and was working on an experiment for some years with an assistant professor toward his doctoral degree.
Well, in 1969 the professor got a better job at Texas A&M which was working to beef up their physics department, and he took the experiment with him. So at that point it was move to Texas A&M, or throw away years of work and start over.
So with one month’s notice to start the semester at A&M, we packed up our stuff and stored it in the inlaws’ basement, rented out our house (thank God we didn’t sell it since it only cost us $10,500 dollars in semi-urban Seattle and I still live there!) and packed up the baby and drove 1800 miles to College Station Texas.
We were back in Seattle and I was five months pregnant with our third child before my husband finished his dissertation. I typed it up for eight days straight, the kids at Grandma’s, 165 pages full of math equations–I won’t name all the symbols because you’d fall asleep–on an IBM selectric, parts of it typed twice with revisions, and me having difficulty reaching the typewriter! Not only that, but my second baby didn’t even recognize me for two or three times as I was sitting making last minute corrections and she was running past in a game of tag. Made me cry.
So I got my “Missus Aggie” (Maggie) degree. When we divorced some twelve years later, I decided I would not give up my degree because I earned it!
What do you get when you cross a troll and a mole. A motoroll?
I’m glad to see two more people have “broke on through to the other side”:
The way out is the way out.
Looks like a rush job from Kinko’s.
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Best one yet!
Very funny OTDT.
You sir, are priceless.
Thanks Bed Man, sincerely.
I’ve been behind over the past several days, so I just want to give a big Thumbs Up and Congratulations to Lynne, Bert, Cindy, and Kay. I appreciated all of your testimonials. It’s so exciting what’s happening now. I truly believe that the best Scientologists are leaving the corporate church. I personally know some who are still in and I don’t have any hope for them to wake up. It’s mainly because they don’t really know the true LRH tech. All they know is Miscavigeology. My few years in the COS was all Miscavigeology and it didn’t work for me. Now reading all of the testimonials of the more “old-time” folks, I see why it didn’t work. Maybe “classic” is a better term than “old-time”.
By the way, did anyone happen to catch Jason Beghe on the show NCIS this week? He was one cool bad guy. It was good to see him. Man, he has a great voice for radio if he’s ever so inclined.
Michael, I agree — good points.
JM
Lynne and Bert,
It is great to have you be part of our group. You just made the exit door a little wider. Welcome!
Congratulations Bert and Lynne!
Seattle has an underground network going on for sure, not just with public either. If HCO wasn’t run by un-meter trained kids and the DSA there did more than attack other staff members someone might even be able to put it together. Oh but alas! Such is the cut-throat environment in the Church of Miscavige which is too busy focusing on everything BUT clearing the planet.
If you are from Seattle and are reading this, that dedicated staff member who dropped her body was Janet Hill, former D/ED SEAF. She was very dedicated and put in more time than many of the others staff members at that time. And she genuinely cared for people, she didn’t look at people as objects or bank accounts. She never got the help when she needed it the most and I believe she was under a tremendous suppression, partially by some of her peers but also by the onslaught of (threatening) communications from management. And towards the end, some of the other “execs” in the area, taking on the “SO missionaire valence” that has hit Seattle more than once, just kind of wrote Janet off. She went home and died not long later.
Management has long been cramming orders into orgs for years. The orders came down from Int, WUS and even from other random places such as WISE or some other non-sequitor echelon and they always bypass lines so that everyone is “doing their own thing” and following “their own orders” but no one knows what the hell anyone else is doing. Org staff fold under these impossible, cross, illegal and offhat orders and they tend to change every week or so into different outrageous orders. And with them come the looming threat of Comm Ev or removal or some other skipped ethics gradient. So yes it all amounts to suppression; when Management has failed to be intelligent, it attempts to bully and use force to get a product. This strategy is wrong – and suppressive. This contagious aberration is echoed by “execs” on the local scene who has long since failed to apply real green on white. Yes, this is still happening.
And on top of that staff don’t really get paid enough to live anywhere above poverty. That’s stressful if you ask me. Heck org staff tend to get paid LESS than SO members and still have to come up with room/board, food, and whatever else. Even right now. Currently, Seattle Day org staff are making less than about $50 a week on average and have had a few $0 dollar weeks just in the last 2 months. So much for ideal org!
An outpoint you say? The current church has many of them.
Congratulations Bert & Lynne for stepping up!
Reminds me of LRH pointing out that an org to grow must in-clude and not ex-clude. Logical, isn’t it as otherwise you shrink – exactly what the c of m is doing.
To an ever increasing extent DMology has sort of preselected who to take on and who to keep (only those who would see the light, i.e. only his flash light shining in their faces) which reminds me of LRH point out that any sort of pre-selection ends you up with PTS people only – wonder why everyone feels so de-PTS’d once out 🙂
Dear Lynne and Bert,
Wow, what a story!
I´m just speechless.
Thank you for the great write-up and your courage.
You are Humanitarians, and you don’t need any acknowledgement for that from the CoS.
What a waste of human resources, power, support, help, kindness and love on the part of the “Church”.
I´m just speechless.
Purpose:
1. L. Ron Hubbard’s legacy shall be resurrected
2. L. Ron Hubbard’s family shall be vindicated, including all belongings given back.
3. David Miscavidge & followings shall be brought to justice
4. CoS management structure shall be reinstall as
designed and intended by LRH: http://www.savescientology.com
By the way Dave boy:
Where is HEBERT Jentzsch– my President of the CoS?
Where is DIANA Hubbard – lovely daughter from LRH, still in the Sea Org?
Where is SHELLY Miscavidge – your dear wife?
___________________________________
“I had a couple of people recently disconnect under the guise of Code of Honor – “Do not give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it”. ”
Those folk should really word clear, demo and clay demo the sentence. It does not say:
“Do not give or receive communication of any form for all eternity to a given terminal, or interact with that terminal in anyway in perpetuity, and especially do convince others do to the same to the given terminal, unless you yourself desire it”
Sheesh, the ability of some people to dub-in all manner of extra extrapolated crap really pisses me off .
OK, rant over.
Alan
Great. ‘different viewpoints on the tech and life, and we tolerate them all, just as we should have all along, instead of insisting that only one viewpoint was allowed”.. ..
I love that. It goes right to the Factors and the beauty of the truths in them.
Its amazing how with applying basic Scientology how easy it is to see the insanity of the church.
Forget about the Data Series- any one who honestly can apply that could never be in the church. The outpoints are just tooo plentiful.
What about something even more basic.
Curious about the Church of Scientology? Ummm No
Desire the Church of Scientology? Very funny
Enforced by the Church of Scientology? Too many to count
Inhibited to go near a Church of Scientology? LFBD
No Church of Scientology? Pretty please
Refuse the Church of Scientology? Bingo
Thx Marty for this forum and all the great peeps here.
Blessings
Bed Man Okc,
By your statements you show to be very astute man. You also speak my language. So my hat is off to you.
Hey Lynne and Bert! Fabulous write up. I had no idea what major contributors you both have been and the tragedies and disappointments you’ve had to experience. Thanks for all you’ve done and are doing. See ya round the block!
Love,
Sherry Katz
That was one baitin’, badgerin’, tear duct fillin’ work o’ art there, Mr. OTDT.
One of these days you’re gonna make the little dm boy freak real good.
Of course, a bit of the comm lag on that happening might be due to his room-temperature IQ.
Thanks for the back story Lynne.
Was your ex ever a member of the Church of Scientology back then?
I knew we had a few physicists on lines back when Scientology was more than just another “religion” progressing towards crack pot “cult” thanks to Dave and his crack team of black operatives.
Anyway thanks again for defining Texas Maggie.
I’ll add it to my glossary of terms 🙂
What rant? I saw astute observation of the present scene, especially
If that’s a rant, you should rant more often.
Bruce Pratt
Ahhhhh. I love a good factor, with dressing, in the morning!
Thanks for that TorchTater!
Bruce Pratt
Mikey —
I am not talented enough to do it, but I’d love to reword and dedicate ZZ Top’s “Sharp Dressed Man” to you as “One Sharp Dude”.
Salient, man, very salient.
Bruce Pratt
🙂 Good rant, Alan!
You sir, are a freak of nature in this universe.
There is no freakin’ way you should be able to do this — in this universe.
2 things:
1) the way you capture the apparency of responsibility — priceless. And bloody scary, but in a good way.
2) I personally express a very strong desire to see the symbol masquerading as OTDT and have a few direct comm cycles at “the Ranch” in July. Alcohol could possibly be involved. Possibly. By one or more participants.
freakin’ awestruck,
Bruce Pratt
Brian, great to hear from you. And a monster post at that – sorta like a 360 tomahawk slam.
Good points, KA.
I like to think of Independent Scientology as “Freemarket Scientology”.
The church just needs to realize that they now have a competitor for the public. They need to get their prices in line and get their shit straight if they are going to survive.
Scott
That is a pretty accurate definition. Look it up on wikipedia.
Totally agree Alan,
It is simply goofy how some interpret or twist it to serve their purpose & please their handlers. And what’s even goofier, I got these people in to Scientology some 35-40 years ago … go figure.
Rant or not – I like what you said!
Dear Lynne & Bert,
welcome to the world of free beings !
There are probably thousands of others with similar disgusting experiences. One by one they will be told. 2 months of 2011 have not yet passed, and we have seen lots of indipendent announcements already 🙂
We got into Scientology after coming back from Texas. In Texas we were groovin’ with the Bible Baptists. It took me quite a while to get over the idea that I was going to go to Hell for looking at something that wasn’t Christian. LOL
An interesting part of that new math is how they were able to take an account and “recalculate” it by adding up all the intensives you had bought for a service, the first ones being a package, and the later ones being at full price one after another as the thing dragged on, and then they suddenly lumped them all into one large package at the maximum discount, recredited the extra to your account, and used it to buy book packages. This money had already been spent long ago. So where did the money for the books really come from? From new donations that week: it came out of real G.I. and the Sea Org members got none of it for their food and pay. It STINKS!!!!
I gotta second Marty’s opinion of your post Brian. What an undercut! Sort of a DEI-CDEINR summary of how the Factors come into play and illustrate the inevitability of the C of S collapse. Good one.
Scott
Bruce,
I just re-read what I wrote. Realized that because the information was so compressed, if you didn’t know what I was talking about to begin with, it might be a tough read. Oh well….
Thanks for the compliment.
Michael
Michael,
Another writing that is pure beauty. Thank you my friend.
Splog,
Haai! Vriend! Ek moet my Afrikaans oefen. Die perdedrolle eintlik vye is.
(I just greeted him in Afrikaans)
Don’t you find it simply amazing. It is ok for “them” to justify refusal to communicate with you with that excuse but if you tell the IAS reg, the Ideal Org fundraiser, etc the same thing – NOOOOOO, totally unacceptable. When it is from them you MUST communicate or get summons to ethics as you are obviously disaffected.
I see your friends now don’t desire the comm. I guess it was good in the past but bad now. Methinks maybe they are a bit critical of your ability to think for yourself. Seems their TR zero is for the birds. That which they can’t confront is now justified by I don’t desire that communication. We can only help those that are willing to accept the help. Thanks for being there. Someday I will visit your fine area of the world again. Till then we visit on these pages.
What you say is sad but true. And then you really reach the state of being responsible for what you see happening – and that my friend is when you arive here, at Moving On Up a Little Higher!
Hey there Lynne & Bert,
You guys just drove a crap load of nails in the Cof M coffin. I love hard-hitting comm when it is apropriate and NOW it is certanly appropriate.
Raise the standard, raise the confront — and you guys nailed it…. (oops, no silliness allowed — gotta be serious, no hard-ass frown)
My late husband & I would observe all these off-policy occasions that were presented to us and ask me “baby , you wanna get hooked up that wagon”. He’d use “ring in the nose” example ( like annimals) and we’d both laugh == and say NO.
It was always the “What have you done for the CoS today. Taking no stead in the bazilion dollars, hours, as staff or public. That was always never noted and you are to come forth with more today. New day, so what’s your problem. Open the checkbook.
As we work up the conditions out of Doubt — which is where we all were — “Make up the damage” — the damage to our own personal integrity. Well engaging in this blog, communicating whatever you want. that is a very important step to repair the inval/eval we have all experienced.
As I personally continute to do my Liability condition, and arrive in non-3, oh my goodness. What power? Such a gift we have given ourselves by increasing our confront, looking at the crap pile of evil – then thoroughly applying the Dobut condition by announcing, it is a beautiful process to opening up vistas that we previouly did not consider we could experience.
Lets all commit to fully doing the conditions. I know there is magic beyond what any of us could fathom right around the corner, if we truly make up the damage, fully looking at what the damage was & things to make it right or whole or whatever it is for you.
Lynne, though we haven’t met in person, we are — cause I intend to make that happen soooner than later. Will phone you on the weekend – looking forward to it.
Well done on loading the big guns in your announcement.
Welcome — and much, much love,
Kay
Quote: “It took me quite a while to get over the idea that I was going to go to Hell for looking at something that wasn’t Christian.”
Reminds me of the looks I got sitting in the HGC when I pulled out my trusty Robert Ludlum pocketbook … if looks could kill … I could feel the flames already 😛
SA,
It ain’t so bad being labeled “disaffected”.
For the most part regs don’t want to touch you because they think your poison.
“Scientologists” run into you at Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s treat you like a “leper” if they come into contact with you.
Occasionally an OTC member drops by but usually the poor things can seem to confront too much “entheta”.
You know being the delicate “OTs” they are.
So the first suggestion that Miscavige should be com-eved or that we’re quite happy with the “old” basic books or whatever sends ’em packin’ pretty fast.
HCO can’t seem to find enough on you to declare you suppressive because so far they haven’t been able to make “disagreeing with management”stick as a suppressive act.
So they sorta stick you in a kinda “Scientology” purgatory.
So for the most part you are treated like you are invisible.
Hello Bert and Lynne,
It was relayed to me some time ago that you were getting your ducks in a row before announcing your independence. Typically, this has to do with a family member(s), and so it is. I know this will end well. It’s one of the reasons we are all doing what we are doing.
Loved your write-ups. Thank you for all you have done and thank you for doing what you just did. It resonates. See you in July!
Linda McCarthy
Hi Lynne and Bert! Thank you for your crystal clear write up. This is so helpful to anyone Looking. They can see that these outnesses are not only happening to them. They can read story after story about the evil forced disconnection, the out tech and the Ethics handlings that have nothing to do with anything LRH wrote.
It is quite inconceivable to people that Fundraising that is no where in policy is Everywhere in the Church. They kind of know, kind of justify etc…We say- You know those doubts you were quietly having that you didn’t dare mention. Well, look. We are shining a light on it. It is ok to look and know what you know!
You wrote: “It is interesting that we’re now a family in a group of people with many different viewpoints on the tech and life, and we tolerate them all, just as we should have all along, instead of insisting that only one viewpoint was allowed.” Beautiful
The Comm Lines are opening up. Even someone like me who needs to stay under the radar for now- I have reconnected up with old friends. One who left the Church in the 80’s who stayed connected to declared relatives. Part of his recent comm to me: “Stick to Source and Remember what is true for you.” We have reconnected after 29 years!
One who has been off lines for several years. I was told this person was disaffected. I connected up anyway and read to him from this and other Blogs. He was never disaffected with LRH or real Scientology. He has put his Clear Bracelet back on and is listening to LRH with a new freedom.
Also, just wrote a message to a young girl who went through hell on an RPF and then got declared and one of her relatives is declared too. Told her I have to be careful, but I am not disconnecting.
If this is happening all over the place as it seems like it is…
From The Battle of Evermore-Led Zeppelin
“…Sing as you raise your bow, shoot straighter than before.
No comfort has the fire at night that lights the face so cold.
Oh dance in the dark of night, Sing to the morning light.
The magic runes are writ in gold to bring the balance back. Bring it back.
At last the sun is shining, The clouds of blue roll by,
With flames from the dragon of darkness, the sunlight blinds his eyes.”
Scott
So far Scientology Inc. has shown absolutely no inclination to “adapt” or “share”. Their entire thrust is toward crushing any and all who would , in any way, challenge their monopoly. They do not “play nice”. What they cannot suppress with litigation they attempt to suppress with harassment and criminal activities, bullying, subversion, coercion, and various hate crimes.
They have become much worse than any of their supposed enemies, and seem to play the role of “Suppressive Organization” with zeal. It is their undoing. They have made too many enemies and to “handle” it they are busily making more by the minute. Their fate is pretty much sealed.
WW
Gandiguy
Well, there are two ways to “go exterior”. One is up the tone scale and the other is down. Whereas we here tend to favor the upward path, Scientology Inc. (a la David Miscavige) appears to be dead set on dragging, pushing, shoving, beating, suppressing everyone down.
I didn’t like where that was going for myself and my dynamics so I chose to get back on to the path of “moving on up a little higher”.
It just happens to better suit my “appetite”.
WW
That was a great fun piece. Thanks.
(haven’t had time to read comments yet) But denigrating people once held in high esteem really whacks my theta nerves BIG TIME, especially a staff member!
Y’all were really put through the ringer in the “no disconnection” gamut!
Being away from it for so long, it just makes my head spin thinking about how insane it truly is! I’d imagine most people are just stuck in confusion over the whole mess until they find the stable datums like you did and sort it out. (I was)
Nice to meet you both!
Eman, thanks for the data that Bill B. is out of SO, I’d wondered why I never saw him anymore ( I left March 2010). I also worked with his daughter Bonny who was the CO IHELP WUS for a while after they declared Marie Christine ( and a very theta gal) but I had been told she went to INT. I hope Bill hasn’t had do disconnect from her. Is Bill out of the church or just the SO, do you know?
If you want to e-mail me separately, I’m at melliot3@earthlink.net
Thanks, Mark Elliott
Truth! Excellent points.
Yep it was a typo but I like the coined word as well! I got what you say on Mr. Arnold. We shall see how this effect affects him.
One of Zep’s best song ever. Thx.
“By the way Dave boy:
Where is HEBERT Jentzsch– my President of the CoS?
Where is DIANA Hubbard – lovely daughter from LRH, still in the Sea Org?
Where is SHELLY Miscavidge – your dear wife?”
Yeah, David Miscavige: ^^^What he said.^^^^Please?
Bert and Lynne
Welcome!!!
Hitch your wagon to a star and come join the games 😀
Hello Bert,
I got your email and will send you one.
No news from my daughter. Heard that she is in the SO in Australia. Well she does her life. I still love her and hope she is doing well. She is pretty smart so she will most probably learn from it like I did.
Dear Karen B,
On behalf of myself and Moms Against Disconnection, I am in the process of retaining an attorney who is helping me with a potential suit regarding the disconnection between me and my minor child (at the time), and the current situation with my son due to disconnection. I have told him about many other situations; including, this evening, about Lynne and Bert’s story about their donations to help the Seattle Org and the subsequent “disinvitation” and the non-listing on the plaque, and he was most amazed. Said this would be good supplemental information. There is a current case he is watching very closely because a judgement in that case could set a precendent for our case.
You mentioned the Delphi schools. My son was attending the Delphian school in Oregon the first time he disconnected. The letter was Fedex’ed to me from that school and I still have the letter and the Fedex envelope it came in as evidence. Many years later, he told me he was pressured into it, did not want to do, cried, and apologized to me for doing it.
I am collecting evidence of disconnection (enforced) from anyone who so desires to send it to me at:
Moms Against Disconnection
3112 Windsor Road
Suite A-140
Austin, TX 787803
This attorney is rated “pre-eminent”, and is an expert on International law, has written three books on trade with Russia, and has been a member or the Oxford Round Table. He is most qualified to deal with this issue. He is very personally dedicated to helping women and children and considers this practice disgraceful and damaging to the parties subjected to it. He understands that the philsophy of Scientology is one thing, and the practices of the Church of Scientology is another thing. There are ways to prosecute this case outside of the First Amendment. The Church is not going to get away with this stuff forever, and very soon Mr. Miscavige and Monique Yingling will be getting a letter from me. They are going to get a piece of my mind. I AM SAYING NO TO DISCONNECTION.
Much love,
Catherine von Ach
I’m looking at all this as being a “fat folder” for DM–as in the LRH policy of looking for the fat folder when you want to see who to really investigate.
Love those lyrics. Thanks!
I want to thank everyone for their acknowledgements, as it is not easy to reply to every comment. I really want disconnection plus the other abuses to stop, and hope that more people continue to speak out and the pressure mounts until the church publicly reverses its nutty policies that are destroying families.
I also want to thank Marty for providing this medium for all of us to communicate broadly. Thanks Marty!
Lynne, I guess you won’t be wearing a Longhorn burnt orange T-Shirt at Independent’s Day party. Iwould be happy to bring an Aggie T-shirt for you to wear.
ML, LM
Sapere Aude, Yes, I agree. 1 SP
Lynne, Nice acknowledgement. Thank you, 1 SP
Dear Lynne and Bert, your write-up tells a story of suffering and triumph. Congratulations on putting your lives back into a place where you can be happy and your family at peace. Here’s to a son and daughter-in-law joining you.
Lynne, I was especially impressed with the story about the typing of that thesis! 165 pages of maths formulae on a typewriter? My Lord. You deserve a PhD yourself!
This is fantastic news. I commend you & thank you for your courage & persistence. Please keep us informed on how it goes. I’ll keep my eyes & ears open for anything that might help the case.
Thanks Bert
David Miscavige,
From where I stand, I give it less than a year. We live in interesting times–history is being made all around us at lightspeed.
Global upheavals with different players, including organized religions, all vying for positions of power. All wanting the coveted prize of being a merchant of influence.
And money.
The midwest US with its opposing views and potential outcomes and how they will affect things.
The changes…well, it’s change. That’s all I’m sure of. You know that too. You can not possibly feel comfortable that your tenuous grasp on things can weather the coming storm.
You are not going to be able to hold this thing together.
One of your stooges sent me an email recently. Some sort of covert justification about “giving way to the new” in reference to your directives (ad nuseum) over the years.
YOU cause that to be sent to me?
Giving way to the new??????
INDEED! Excellent advice in this day and age.
Practically sooth.
Bert and Lynne,
Salute!!!
OTDT,
Ya know, the weird thing is, is that you probably weren’t far off the mark!
I’ve been traveling and less able to post comments —
It’s heartening to see the recent announcements knowing that with every announcement another 10 to 100 people lurking and as yet not completely off the fence — have made that jump. OUT.
Having just spent 4 days in Manhattan speaking with friends I can tell you that the “never been scientologist public” are more and more appalled by the happenings of dms tyrannical oligarchy and more than one person mentioned — he should be watching the happenings in the middle east and should make a bold move and LEAVE first, before being toppled and pilloried.
Welcome to the sunny side of the street!!
WH
Good morning!
This just in, a piece of intelligence my wife gleaned in her morning read of the latest “Church” announcements …..
As if we needed more proof — here is another piece from the highest point of Miscavige’s “delivery” machine, the Freewinds.
The Freewinds just announced:
The “LIFE IS A REG CYCLE” seminar .
“From: Dave Driscoll
To: fssc.wus@freewinds.org
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:53 AM
“Subject: LIFE IS A REG CYCLE!!
“Live life better with the tech of Registration delivered only on the Freewinds!!
“This is your chance to get you and your staff drilled on the tech of Sales and Closing…….
“These drills include….
“Sell a package drill……”
Who knows, this seminar might soon be the eligibility requirement for Miscavige’s next level on his bridge — MT 9.
Fruit for thought.
Have a nice day…;)
“Another point, I know you’ve all been concerned about how I personally haven’t gotten audited in like…decades…or something, I know. You’re right. OK, so I’ll submit, I’ll go in session. Who’s gonna audit me? It’s gotta be somebody with some altitude, ’cause everyone’s scared shitless of me and I can’t have an auditor sitting across from me who’s teeth are chattering and beads of sweat coming down their forehead. Who the hell’s it gonna be?”
It would be my pleasure.
I’m going with Cowboy Poet with this.
JM
Congratulations Lynne and Bert!!
Your pain of disconnection is our pain.
We are still in the midst of sorting out and coming to terms with experiencing this crime against humanity, this religious hate crime ourselves. It is the worst thing I have been through in my 38 years as a Sea org member. We are not through yet but I know one thing already — it has greatly revitalized my purpose and hat in life.
In a way it is forcing me to get my own ethics in, as sitting on the fence watching and reading is not ethical in the face of this spiritual genocide.
Hitler’s Command Intention “Don’t buy from Jews”, has become “Don’t buy from SPs” under Miscavige’s Command Intention.
You are standing up against this sinister evil. My hat is off to you.
OTDT, that reads EXACTLY like David Miscavige as played by SNL’s Seth Meyers!
You are amazing.
JM
Bert and Lynne,
VVVVVVWD on asking those hundreds of thousands back!
Please smile as you’re among the first of the high rollers to do so.
Enjoy your new found freedom, integrity and friends.
LIFE IS A REG CYCLE SEMINAR
(or How to Suck Every Last Dime Out of Everyone All the Time)
*Learn How to Reg Yourself in Your Sleep
*Find Out How to Close a Stranger for Something in a Public Restroom in 30 Seconds
*How to Trick Real Old People Into Giving You All Their Money
*How to Reg a Reg While You’re Getting Regged
*The Story of Reg Sharpe – The First Reg
*Using Telepathy in Reg Cycles
*How to Block Telepathic Signals from Non-Payers
*Using Telekinesis to Make Your Prospect’s Wallet Jump Out of Their Pants
*How to Reg Your Mother For All Her Money
*How to Reg Your Children For All Their Money
*How to Reg Dead People For All Their Money
*How to Reg a Cop Out of a Traffic Ticket
*How to Reg Your Way Out of an Armed Hold-Up
*When to Zero in For the Kill
*How to Make a Prospect Think You Can Read Their Mind
*The Proper Use of Guilt During a Reg Cycle
*Speed-Borrowing – The Quick Path to Ready Cash
*How to Avoid Paying Back Loans
*How to Paint a Prospect Into a Corner
*The Joy of Paying
*The Wonderful Joy of Paying More
*How to Find Funds That Aren’t There
*Who To Throw Under The Bus, Why and When?
*Ethics Versus Money
*Exploding Ridges by Paying
*How to Go Clear Through Paying
*Paying – The Alternate Route to OT
*Using Status to Entice People to Pay
*The Use of Fine Print in Avoiding Refunds
*Little Known Obscure LRH Quotes About Paying
*The Ins and Outs of Selling Your Organs
*When Is It OK to Lie for Money?
*Donating Your Way to Total Freedom
*How to Reg Your PC Into Cogniting Faster
*How to Reg Your Way Out of Ethics Trouble
*How to Reg a Reg Into Not Regging You
*Advanced Physics Through Regging
And More!! Sign Up Now!! This is a MUST ATTEND event!
Welcome and Good Job!
I looked at your company site. Loved the stats going up the wall and across the ceiling. Loved the company having to move many times to a bigger space to accommodate expansion and upgrades on machinery. Sounds like a happy and very productive place, treating the staff and customers like the valuable people they are!
Bernie
Thank you Free To Think. I appreciate the validation and your support. The wonderful people on this blog and their communication and stories have been my inspiration. Also, there is much evidence of DISCONNECTION on this blog. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT ENFORCED DISCONNECTION IS ALIVE AND WELL WITHIN THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY, AND NO LACK OF EVIDENCE OF ITS PAINFUL EFFECTS UPON THOSE SUBJECTED TO IT.
LOL!!!
But it has occurred to me that the wide-open friendly state of Texas might still have the Aggie-Longhorn conflict to reconcile. I wonder if they still have the Aggie Jokebook?
ROFLM youknowwhat OFF!!!
My guess — Instead of an under bridge dweller, you get an unsightly spot on an otherwise aesthetic bridge.
Bruce
Right guys,
Use your skills and reputations to fully reverse the all the flows of those 20 years.
Always love to be exterior.
Lol, Davey keeping his word!
Devil is going down too!
Made my day again.
Thanks SA,
Yes, it’s really all about confront isn’t it?
There’s a reason LRH put OT-TR0 and TR0 right at the very beginning of The Bridge, it’s the one thing you absolutely must have to make any progress, or even to live at all.
Some of these recent OTs really make me sick with their utter lack of confront. I’m not denigrating the actual state of OT, mind; just recent pretenders to the title. I’ve read what LRH said about OT in the 50’s and to my mind it’s about becoming more able, more in-ARC, having more tolerance, becoming more cause over life and mest, and becoming gradiently de-aberrated on all 8 dynamics.
Permit me to diverge a bit and say how I think it really should go:
The best example of an OT I know is not a photo op in any magazine, is not stinking filthy rich, to the best of my knowledge is not a huge contributor to Dave’s slush funds and not an attention-status seeker.
This is OT is staff member, she’s the Snr C/S at (what used to be) my home org. She has most of the usual planet earth distractions to deal with, just more so (I’ll omit details out of respect for my friend’s privacy but take my word for it, this person has had life rougher than most Scientologist).
And yet, she made it go right to be able to spend 2 years at ANZO almost 20 years ago, get through Clear, OT III and most important, Class IV auditor and C/S. For years she almost single-handedly ran the entire Div 4 at the org and still kept production levels at a respectable range for just one person.
Since then, she’s completed Grad V Auditor and C/S (fully interned if I’m not mistaken) and for a long time was acknowledged throughout AF as being the ost standards tech terminal around. She even gained a reputation for cracking a few cases that came on the org lines which Flag missed. That one fact alone lead to about 20 Hungarians coming to AF en-masse for good service before they had a delivering org.
And she did this for 20 years or more. I don’t know her status, but with the current Scn climate in orgs, I fear the worst – she had little patience with fools and lofty teenagers from RTC.
Ah yes, that’s what I call a good example of an OT – someone who confronts life and makes it go better. Someone who doesn’t easily succumb but instead pushes on and persists.
In contrast, I see Church OTs who drink the KoolAid and I see this:
“Oooooh, you nasty horrible person you! You have a point of view different from me and dare question His Great Royal Shortness! Oooooooooh, I’m so terribly upset I’m going to … going to … never going to talk to you again!”
Is that an OT? Maybe on paper, but certainly not in my world. Rather give me the real thing, the mavericks and outcasts, the ragtag bunch of Ess-Pees hanging out on this here blog (and other places too), quietly going ahead and getting things done with no need for fanfare and assigned status.
Alan.
For you two Beautiful Beings !
OTDT ,
Off the hook funny!!
You got it right.
BTW, all the courses and seminars you list are prerequisites for the release of MT 9 “Miscavige Thetan level NINE”…..number nine, number nine, number nein ……
Agreed.
I have a confession to make
There was a time in the past where I had the goal of making a lot of money so that I could make a huge donation to the Church. I’m embarrassed! so now when I finally come out you can all boo and hiss me! All I can do is shake my head.
I’m proud of you son! Funniest bit yet!
Lynne and Bert,
I have two things to say that I don’t think have been said already (I simply don’t have the time to read all comments):
1) Did you notice that the names of the contributors plaque were obviously glued onto the surface. That means they know at some point somebody’s name will be taken off whenever they misbehave, and they can remove the names without having to redo the whole thing. Is that telling or what? If I were you I’d photo-shop your names into it where they belong and send that picture all over the net.
2) A lot of times when people are made to do things that are way beyond the pale as per their personal integrity – to prove how “on board” they are – like in the instance of your friend that did not only disconnect from you but from your friend, who had nothing to do with anything – well, that turns out to be a turning point for them in a lot of cases. Having read hundreds of people’s testimonies about what was their turning points, things like that comes up a lot. I hope your friends are on the road to sanity and reclaiming their own lives like you did.
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