I didn’t anticipate as much worship for David Mayo as appeared in the thread on the last post, Deconstructing the Mayo Myth. Of course, quite a bit of it was from the very squirrels I was trying to warn people about. So, it did serve a purpose. I did not set out to discredit David Mayo. I steered clear of that route pretty carefully – simply detailing proof of one whopper he told that resulted in people being confused (the comments at issue proving the confusion proposition true). If one studied much Scientology and applied it, it would take a rather low IQ to be confused enough to put David Mayo on the same level as L Ron Hubbard – whether Mayo’s original lie were a lie or not.
I did not even think of the following facts before last night’s posting; because I never intended to bury Mayo. I only thought of them while scratching my head at comments seeking to raise Mayo to sainthood. They are clearly relevant – at least to those still apt to be lead down some dead end canyon.
David Mayo did not do a single thing to make the Upper Level HCOBs available for people outside of the church of Scientology. In fact, he swore under oath on numerous occasions he never received the Robin Scott materials. He never wavered from that position from 1983 to this day. Rather than take on David Miscavige, David Mayo countersued and made the focus of his attack L Ron Hubbard. He actively joined forces with a formidable government and private consortium that was dead set on harassing, jailing and forever discrediting L Ron Hubbard. The day before L Ron Hubbard died in January 1986 the Federal Disctrict Court judge on the case denied Mayo’s motion to force LRH into the litigation and appear for deposition. Mayo’s team ruthlessly pursued L Ron Hubbard literally to the day he died.
Mayo’s AAC was closed by 1984. His stint as a Scientology practioner outside the church lasted a far sight shorter than the existence of the modern Independent movement, which has only just begun. Mayo was unemployed for the next ten years. He may have had a side “consulting” agreement with his sugar daddy who carried him for that decade in order to justify that carrying. He spent a great deal of that time windsurfing in exotic locations. He was taken care of financially by psychiatrist/Scientologist Frank “Sarge” Gerbode. Gerbode hired and paid for one of the largest litigation firms on the planet to represent Mayo.
Mayo ultimately agreed to a permanent injunction against using or disseminating any Scientology upper level materials. He agreed to do that in exchange for all Gerbode’s legal expenses being paid for and a high six figure or low seven figure chunk of change for himself. He flew in from his digs in Hawaii to consummate the deal. And he flew off to quiet, perhaps content, oblivion. Sure, David Mayo took a beating. You think we haven’t? The difference is this. I will die before accepting anything from David Miscavige. And I know for a fact the same goes for Mike Rinder and dozens of others who have been shoulder to the wheel over the past two years, after several decades of having their shoulders against another wheel that they thought was the one it is on now.
As to the squirrel line that “hey, you supported the little bastard he defied”, I’d like to courteously point out a few facts. First, David Mayo wore Commander bars, was in daily communication with L Ron Hubbard, and was one of only a handful of people who even had access to LRH when the little bastard out maneuvered him and ousted him. Mayo’s compatriots at the AAC had more combined brass than the modern Navy when the little bastard, without any stripes, kicked all their asses. That included Sector Nine Capitan Bill Robertson and a host of others. We – myself and a lot of others who are now forwarding LRH’s legacy – were not even pieces on the chessboard then, let alone players. By the time I was in a Legal executive capacity, Mayo and his friends were already engaged in a full-scale attack against L Ron Hubbard. And they were arm in arm with the Internal Revenue Service, FBI, and an array of private sector attorneys.
David Mayo may have been the greatest C/S to ever trod earth before all this started. I wouldn’t know. I only ever talked to him casually while a 23 year old LRH External Comm courier before I’d had any tech training. Even then his presence didn’t impress me much.
And that reminds me of an earlier beginning to my contemplating a post to distinguish us from the likes of Mayo. I have noticed over the past year several old AACers coming out of retirement and hanging up their shingles. While nattering about Independents being “johnny come lately” out of one side of their mouths, they are back in business only because of the exodus we have unleashed. Well, over the past couple months I have had some bedraggled souls wind up on my doorstep who have been mauled by old-timer squirrels. I repaired them, and will continue to do so as needed. But, it is apparent to me that a line needs to be drawn. Squirrels leave the church seeking freedom to do whatever hair-brained scheme their banks feed them. Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.
I was willing to let bygones be bygones and largely have over the past two years. But, I think it is high time to clearly delineate what we stand for and distinguish it from others with not so lofty goals.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Marty,
When I first started looking on the internet, I looked up Mayo. I read about people I wondered WHY they got kicked out, or why they blew.
When I read Julie Gillespie/Mayo’s story, about how Miscavige got into both Julie’s and Mayo’s cases, particularly, this incident:
http://www.freezone.de/english/reports/e_jmayo1.htm
it explained a lot for me. And adjacent to Julie’s stories, are some of Mayo’s.
There are a lot of stories, and everyone has a long story to tell.
This site has a lot of other stories.
It’s all relevant.
There’s a lot of material on the internet out there to absorb, and lots of first hand accounts of people to share.
Mayo’s been knocked out of the Scientology game. He doesn’t seem to be a factor in the freezone or independent movement.
He did interact with LRH, and he has lectured and his lectures are online for people to judge him by. He sadly I feel was ousted, and it seems that Miscavige had the MOST to do with Mayo’s ousting, per Julie Gillespie Mayo’s story above.
I think your thread proved the original NOTs issues that are online, are the good stuff.
I look forward, with great anticipation, to reading your book, whenever the right time presents itself for you to publish it.
I had no idea Mayo had gone after LRH like that.
Talk about the wrong target!
Thank you for a few more details on this.
My own understanding is enhanced by #1 on your recommended reading:
Man’s Search for Meaning – Viktor Frankl
Bruce Pratt
Marty this is a very important difference that you make. I like to get the inside story on Mayo cause its not very well known. Certainly current scientologist might think you and the independents are considered squirrel anyone who previously were in scn or use scn outside of the church.
Hey Marty I’m with you on this one.
Marty,
Mayo also mentions his desire to do pure tech, and try to accomplish LRH’s long final two orders to Mayo.
I don’t think he expected to be pulled into a big fight with Scientology at Santa Barbara, I mean if he’d been smart, he’d NOT have set up some big operation, and just gone about quietly doing Scientology.
Remember, he too, was only OUT of the Sea Org just a mere year or two, before setting up the AAC.
And the “brass” around him, if you listen to a dozen or so of the graduations and talks that Mayo speaks at, you see that they at AAC sounded about like a Mission or Org, but delivered the whole Bridge.
I think the infiltration and legal attacks on them caused them to go like they did.
Why didn’t Scientology just NOT do this legal attack stuff.
Mayo would have either fallen apart or not, depending on other factors then, like the squirreling of the tech.
But even Mayo in the one lecture I linked to, talks about keeping the purity of the tech pure.
So, I think Mayo went through just his own unique version of a descent from being a Scientology practitioner of some pretty high note in Scientology history. And how he fell out from Scientology, is something I like to myself just hear the facts, and hear people’s firsthand experiences with Mayo.
And I like to hear Mayo’s views, and I thought Julie Gillespie’s thoughts I linked to above, show Miscavige’s impact, even on Mayo.
Chuck
Well good on you for calling it like it is (was).
Like you I was not privy to dealing with Mayo before he was busted and the young turks took over. Whether he was a good auditor or C/S may or may not be true. Given he did audit LRH I am willing to assume he had something going for him back then. But after he left, that was a whole other story which you have given a good synopsis. To affiliate with the people he did and then attempt to drag LRH into a legal dispute, while claiming all the time what a great relationship he had with the old man, clearly is a major outpoint and in my view was a despicable act.
It is so easy for nutters to point the finger at you and Mike as you both held senior positions within the Church and you are both out there openly communicating. So take heart in the fact that you are making a lot of forward progress and a lot more people are now wise to DM’s destruction. But most importantly, they should take heart in you consistent view regarding the application of standard tech.
It’s nice to have the extra data.
KRC and all.
I believe what you say.
LRH put him on post. Maybe LRH chose a weak being. He did a good job up to a point then went into treason trying to deal with something he couldn’t handle.
Bryan, is it possible that Mayo noticed LRH was being held hostage by Miscavige and was trying the legal route to get LRH into a court of law so he could be in communication again? I know this sort of thing only happens in Mission Impossible type movies, but it’s something to contemplate.
Nice connection Bruce. I can see how that would be.
Thanks jc, particularly for recognizing what you said in the final sentence. At the end of the day, that is what really matters.
No.
Majorly PTS he must have been – what a decent into hell – and to commit such acts on the person he obviously loved, admired and respected before, LRH.
That’s a MAJOR fall from grace.
Never worry for me, I’m staying far clear of “other tech” out there. I appreciate finding the truth here! Thank you!
Thanks for telling what you know Marty. This was all way B4 my time. I often wondered how something like this could have happend. When I became a messenger I felt a connection to source and made it my mission to understand policy to the best of my ability. I could not understand how people could take credit for actions that they did not create. I also could not understand how people would want to go against the purpose that LRH had laid out to help so many people.
This and your last post help to clear up some confusions that I had and for that i am thankful. I , as most people, have no reason not to trust you. So thanks.
Wow, what an interesting story. And I am very happy that you have told it. Thanks.
Pingback: Before You Knight Mayo… (via Moving On Up a Little Higher) « My LRH
It occurs to me now that the discussion of David Mayo is late on the chain and therefore will persist. The discussion on this post and the last are all about the wrong DM. Had that DM gotten in session with the other DM, we probably would not be having this discussion or, possibly, this independent Scientologist movement. Don’t get me wrong, David Mayo was not a darling of the CMO and the feeling was mutual. LRH appeared to have a solution with his suggestion that Mayo set up a separate corporation to care for tech matters while the CMO looked after production. Al that obviously became moot when DM sniffed the air and smelled an “I’m not auditing you” R-factor in his immediate future.
“Squirrels leave the church seeking freedom to do whatever hair-brained scheme their banks feed them. Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.”
HELL YEAH, Marty!
This line should be SAVED. PERFECT, PERFECT, PERFECT delineation. Thank you for stating it as such, and for these postings.
At this point I think we could all use a good healthy dose of, “What’s right about….”
A lot of “rightness” has been stirred up here, and perhaps for good purpose, but perhaps not, since it might be giving OSA a damn good chuckle to see any form of dissension in the ranks out here.
On the other hand again, it’s always good to see that we can handle differences of viewpoint “out here” without the manipulation, threat and duress found inside the C of S.
Marty,
Thank you for your last 2 very valuable posts. I just hope those squirrels”old timer” either take responsibility and receive proper training from our Independents Training Center (Jim Logan) if their intention is to help people, or just leave the Independents alone.
I noticed how some are using Marty’s blog to create credibility among Independents so they can be trusted as an auditor.
I will NOT support any squirrel auditors, that is why I left the C of M.
Thank you for posting this data. I think it is important to have it out there so we can learn from Mayo’s mistakes, as well as admire the good. I used to think that all this Mayo stuff was in the past, but you obviously found good reason to discuss it on the blog. It is part of this big DM GPM.
I really, really hope to God that NOTs is an amazing, wonderful thing that can make a huge difference in someone’s life. I have been disappointed by the church OTs.
That addnl data is good to know.
I checked out the Rons Org and other stuff out there but the Independent movement is the only hope I have for the level of standard tech I would be interested in doing and fighting for. I’m sure people get wins elsewhere, but I just trust you Marty and everyone else- Mike, Jim, Dan, et al. I don’t know if I could explain why, except that I just know.
+1
Hi Joe H,
I like your style and light approach to these matters. I look forward to meeting you at the Indy party.
“By the time I was in a Legal executive capacity, Mayo and his friends were already engaged in a full-scale attack against L Ron Hubbard. And they were arm in arm with the Internal Revenue Service, FBI, and an array of private sector attorneys.”
Marty, this is ironic considering that CST, in 1982, had as it’s founding member Meade Emory, who used to work for the IRS prior and who were trying to bankrupt the church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Spiritual_Technology#Structure
Hmmmmm. What was he doing there as a founding member at the top of the organization?
The only reason the church was given tax exempt status in the early nineties was because it had already been neutralized in the preceeding 11 years; taken over and controlled by SPs, old time members kicked out, altered and watered down tech, huge donations required. It was safe for the government to give the church religious status because the religion had been neutralized…By the time the IRS gave tax exemption, the CofS just looked like a fake money motivated church run by assholes, which it was and is now.
^^^^^ Big picture.
For the longest time, Marty, I’ve had conflicting data as to David Mayo’s situation/posistion in Scientology. Early on I was told he was a squirrel, etc… by the “little one”. Of course a lot of us fell for dm’s version of the truth. From a public’s viewpoint I had to trust to a certain degree (more precisely have faith) that what I was told was correct. No matter how much training and auditing you have you still have to try and trust people who communicate to you from the “upper echelons” of Scientology. Lack of physical data to compare to is what creates little “brain vacuums” of knowledge as to what is the real truth of a given subject. No doubt most of our saving grace is pure awareness and knowingness of what “feels” right and correct. Theta is as Theta does. Dubbing in answers to all of these postings and data flooding in from others is NOT a good idea.
True Facts = Truth = Lies AS-IS.
Since I have been on this blog and declared my Independence, I have sky-rocketed up the tone scale and occasionally down some. Life is like that whether you like it or not (planet earth, what a party!). I have to really thank Marty and Mike for being who they were and who’ve they have become. True friends of LRH and us. Thank guys!! 🙂
Love and ARC,
Gary
A lot has been said about Standard tech on this thread.
I am all for keeping what LRH did pure and distinct from what others have done. I guess that would be standard tech.
As for anything above what has been released by the “official church” it seems now that it would be considered questionable tech. Let’s take Super power. Now that we know that there is a good chance that dm will squirrel it, it may not ever be released in a helpful form.
As for making it to full OT, I don’t see that happening with the tech that has been released. It looks to me that LRH didn’t make it, so what makes us think that we will, using that same tech?
I think for thetans to move toward a higher goal other than what is acheivable with the current tech available it will take someone to try some things that are not currently released. If we then call that person “Squirrel!!” then I don’t think we will move toward the goal of full OT. IMHO if a person makes Scientology his own and does all that has been issued, is he a squirrel to try to move up higher using what he knows? Not to me.
Maybe someone will consider that I am a squirrel now. I don’t really give a shit. I have had a boat load of you can do this, you can’t do this , from the cult. I will do what makes sense to me now.
Thank you very much.
Marty, thank you for opening up this discussion. Though I don’t know much about David Mayo I can see he is not around and he has not been for a loooong time now. And we all know why and how.
So we are here now and doing what we can to put things back in order not to lose our own sanity at least and exerting our other basic right as thetans, to leave a game. That of the CofM.
The trouble with Mayo is that he never made it to handle the suppression, which must have been high I admit, from the C of M.
Thus he disappeared and never managed to stay on his own be it either the path of standard tech or something else.
We stand on our own for some time now, thanks to the many contributors to this site and especially you.
This is no little thing and those who don’t realize don’t really know what they are doing. To say Mayo was this or that is history. History is altered we know that for many reasons. What is NOT history and is REAL and IS happening is the forward thrust and the momentum we are now getting.
All those people nattering maybe should get you some more power under your belt instead of doing that. Because if we all think clearly we will see that there is NO ONE else to do this on planet Earth right now.
No need to get sudden on such things but it’s good to see who is able to push power to power and who is NOT. Keep it steady bro!!!
I agree, Lynne. There’s a whole lot of stone throwing going on from glass houses in my opinion. As I said in a comment on the last post, we’ve all done things in this game for which we aren’t proud. Every one of us. Pitching stones is not the answer, IMO. Rising above it and recognizing the good where it exists is. Without that, the healing cannot begin. Without that, we can’t truly get the show back on the road.
Until any of us have walked a mile in someone else’s shoes, we don’t have a clue how we would have responded under similar circumstances. Things are much different now than they were back then. The presence of the internet and the near instant speed of particle flow on the comm lines is but one example.
I happen to know some of the people who were at the ACC with Mayo and I would put them up against anyone here in a heartbeat as bastions of integrity and standardness. The proof is in the results. The marketplace will sort out real fast those who are squirrels and those who aren’t. There’s really no need to fret about it here, IMO.
Good call on that one Infinity.
I agree TRUTH.
That is the exact reason I left.
Squirrel auditing ,squirrel training, squirrel admin and squirrel ethics.
As I’ve written many times.
IT IS NOTHING BUT A GOVERNMENT APPROVED AND TAX EXEMPT *SQUIRREL GROUP*.
Meant to say “AAC” not “ACC”.
Wow….this is getting seriously educational. Sometimes I want to kiss the ground that I was so “downstat” and never made it up on my OT levels while in the CoM.
When the time comes, I will know where to get my NOT’s.
“An order of NOTS please. Hold the Mayo!” 😉
Centurion
@Infinity wrote:
“Marty, this is ironic considering that CST, in 1982, had as it’s founding member Meade Emory, who used to work for the IRS prior … ”
Larry Brennan has already debunked this bit of tinfoil multiple times, but some people just won’t listen: it’s right in the CST corporate by-laws that one of their major purposes is to keep C of S in compliance with tax laws. Who better to advise on 501 c 3 tax compliance matters, than a former I.R.S. Agent who dealt in that specific area for years ?
@Infinity wrote:
“and who were trying to bankrupt the church.”
Says who ? Dox, Please.
As it happens, I was one of the crew drafted for the Pubs US (not for profit) to Bridge Publications, Inc. (for profit) conversion internal audit back in 1981 which was part of the corporate sort-out evolution.
We were all bonded by the GO and then briefed that the reason for Pubs US being turned into BPI was that the principal beef the IRS had with C of S at that time was private inurment to Ron Hubbard (who received royalties from the sales of his books by the orgs), that nearly all U.S. Church groups with big book publication and sales divisions were required to run them as separate for-profit companies that paid all the appropriate taxes, and that Publications never should have been run as an in-house department of C of S of C in the first place.
Nothing was ever said to us about any I.R.S. effort to “bankrupt the church” at that time.
Michael A. Hobson
For the record, I don’t see anyone knighting Mayo nor trying to make him a saint. I didn’t know him, but he was apparently thought of pretty highly at one time by LRH and at one time saved LRH’s life. I see no reason not to acknowledge that. As for his or anyone else’s failure at the AAC to handle the suppression in the church at that time, all I can say is that none of us managed to do so either. And here we all sit. We can take the high road, acknowledge the rightnesses and get on with it, or we can make OSA very, very happy by driving in our own wedge — true squirrels notwithstanding.
Well-said, FF
Great comments Lynn & Freedom Fighter,
I like to look at the good works we have all contributed over the years. The 1950’s – about 1976 were fast moving years – big research changes, huge expansion, and many organizational changes – some good, some bad.
The common thread was that the vast majority of us were were working towards a better world. Yes, there were likely a couple bad eggs in there, but I wouldn’t include the Mayo’s, the Jentzsch’s, the Spickler’s, and so many other stellar pioneers in that group.
We all had our screw-ups, but recognizing the rightness of the being to me is a far better way to acknowledge the work, the wins, and yes, the hardships each & every one of us went thru.
I thank them all, and all of you, for the parts we all played over the last 60 or so years.
In the first paragraph you mention squirrels that commented on the last thread, squirrels that you are trying to warn us about. Who are the squirrels that you are referring to that we should be warned of? Thank you so much.
I was off to bed and then this term “sugar daddy” was bothering me.
I’m not sure what it means.
“A wealthy, usually older man who gives expensive gifts to a young person in return for sexual favors or companionship” from thefreedictionary.com
Marty,
Personally I never liked the concept being conveyed that the Ol’man was somehow “being held hostage” as if he were some helpless kidnap victim of some kind.
The idea that late brier Nibs was trying to convey to Flynn and Assoc.
Is it possible that he liked being secluded out there in Creston virtually undisturbed and unmolested?
Giving him time to wrap up his research and finish his novels.
I mean with cool people like Sargio and Gene around it couldn’t have been all that bad.
Marty – I want to point out that you are sweating the people who walk on the weird side. You got a whole following behind you that cannot be bought, sold or otherwise swayed from forwarding LRH’s legacy. Why sweat the squirrels? Picture Sam or Tony being bought off. Ain’t gonna happen. Picture Joe or Haydn. This is what you got with you on this adventure. The ones who deify Mayo and scorn LRH are the cur dogs yapping at the fire engine.
ML Tom
Thanks Marty for the recent clarification on the subject od David Mayo. I never doubted the fact that LRH was the only source for the NOTS data. Just as you’ve reiterated, Miscavige’s money has zero value in my eyes, so I’ll continue doing what I’m doing till the day I’ll no longer be able to read a Meter with the current body and then I’ll find another one to start over again. I’ve not found a better job/activity as pleasant as being an auditor and audit others with LRH’s tech, in the Whole Track!!!
Good point Tony.
I’m trying to find the reference where LRH talks about someone who is not hatted regarding a subject going into treason.
Again Marty, I have no idea what do you mean by: “By the time I was in a Legal executive capacity, Mayo and his friends were already engaged in a full-scale attack against L Ron Hubbard.” Could you explain?
Because if you’re going to go head-to-head with the IRS, you want someone on your team who’s worked for them and knows the ropes.
As someone who was audited by the IRS a couple of years ago, the best move I made was hiring a former IRS agent to represent/help me. I ended up in a better position after the audit, than before.
Best Thread Topic on this Site ever !!!
Another top notch Post !!! The best yet.
A while back it looked like the Independent Movement on this Blog was getting so desperate for support against DM/CO$ rolling out the red carpet for any and every “Yesman” squirrel walking up the plank.
Who’d want to be part of such a Group? It would have amounted to no more than 1 bucket of shit attacking another.
Good to see the emphatic promotion of Standard Tech.
I wouldn’t have any Issue with DM playing ruthless Gestapo Commander if it’d be for the purpose of getting Standard Tech in. Unfortunately he is more interested in Power and scamming the Tech to get more Money.
Try to find such a Thread as this one on ESMB that doesn’t get thrashed by every psycho Troll on site before it reaches end of page 1.
In the Freezone, we are probably in need of this particular Topic more than anything else where squirreling has only become the acceptable norm. Time to raise the gates.
jeez marty,im out of scio now and have been for years but ive always been facsinated by old stories about LRH and oldtimers.my parents are pretty much out they wont o servicers anymore but they are glued to your website.
my father said if marty and mike ever wanted to just blow the midget out of the water and get thousands upon thousands of people who are in,out,squirrel,xscio,secretly out you name it,,,,all u have to do is have a question and answer forum with about 20 people and let them ask u any question about the past scientology….and then post it as a video…we really need to go from not know to know and u and mike are the men to do it.
everone here in the field in oz are all talking about the event u guys are having on independant day and the pics and how jelous they are on not being there.believe me guys the field out here are all rooting for you.
Some years ago there had been only other groups as alternative to CofM. I did not want to get training or auditing there. Nor in the CofM. One big reason had and has been that I do not trust them. I would not lay may case into their hands as I have first hand experience what can happen if audited on wrong items and assumtions.
Right now it looks like that the now independents are the better choice. Might be or not.
But as I plan to drop my body in around 30 years I somtimes figure out how to, how to better go through between life and about strategies to better start next life. And one big question is: What about Scientology in 50 years. The old independents (freezone types, Marty and associates aso.) are gone. Mybe CofM could be still there. At least as a corporate structure or entitiy.
That indepentent movement is only a temorary solution. What is the long range plan?
Mayo had the balls to stand up against Miscavige. I admire him for that. He was at the time one of the few who could have arranged the needed mutiny, had he gotten some decent backup.
He did mistakes once he was abused, kicked out and degraded. I am sure, but I don’t hold this against him.
Excellent case in point, and case closed.
Ignacio, I am with you 100%.
I’m not sweating. I’m simply differentiating.
Yes.
+1
Joe
No doubt
Marty,
As LRH might say, with the Independents we have a New Breed of Cat. I’m proud to be part of it. ml, Laura
“As for making it to full OT, I don’t see that happening with the tech that has been released.” I do.
“It looks to me that LRH didn’t make it, so what makes us think that we will, using that same tech?” I think to the extent we make that our standard – which can necessarily only be the evaluation of hearsay, we’re operating on a hidden standard. See my next post on that score. On further reflection – since I saw you last Tony – who am I, or anyone else who accomplished a tiny fraction of what LRH did, to judge his power or state?
“I think for thetans to move toward a higher goal other than what is acheivable with the current tech available it will take someone to try some things that are not currently released. If we then call that person “Squirrel!!” then I don’t think we will move toward the goal of full OT.”
Upon further practice and study since I saw you, I am recognizing there is a huge amount of existing, published tech that has not been fully utilized.
” I have had a boat load of you can do this, you can’t do this , from the cult. I will do what makes sense to me now.”
By all means. I’m not saying anyone can’t do whatever one wants to do. I am saying that there are “authorities” and priests out there dragging down LRH and the tech, diverting people from availing themselves of what he did research and make available, which is depriving a lot of good folks a lot of gains.
What I think perhaps I am failing to communicate is that in essence Mayo was doing in 83 what Miscavige is doing now. Setting himself up as source of Scientology. Mayo wasn’t promoting “do whatever you think is cool”. He was saying “I created the highest levels, and if you want them, forget about Ron, and come to my place.” Sort of the same op Miscavige is trying to infer over time. I am saying, there need be no priesthood. Regardless of what happened with LRH during the final days during the deterioration of his body, he was a big boy. He saw to the publication of all he created. To infer one need find some special guru to get what he intended or produced is what I object to. Part of the op is to tear down LRH – Mayo did it directly, Miscavige has done it covertly. Same result, same end.
Thank you for this post about David Mayo. When I visited Flag many times during this controvery, I recall the extreme tension and stress in the hearts and minds of the staff. I always knew “something” was going on behind the scenes. You have now revealed this “something”. I was just a public “customer” with a sincere interest in Scientology and what it had to offer.
Looking back now after almost 30 years, I can see that in the long run all forms of withholding information and secrecy are futile.
This blog is very refreshing.
“The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion.”
– Molly Ivins
By the way Tony, I noted this quote from Molly Ivins (great Texas Observer writer, RIP) to another comment. I get to weigh in too, and at the end of the day, my voice is no more important than yours:
““The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion.”
– Molly Ivins
He already did explain.
Ok, Lynne, I get to use Molly Ivins again:
“The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion.”
– Molly Ivins
Dylan, thanks. I am not looking for trust necessarily. I am exercising my freedom of speech like a lot of other folks. I have spent a lot of time clearing up lies on the subject of Scientology. No cow is sacred in my view.
Oops, meant Different Breed of Cat. Still proud. Laura
Is it really necessary to your practicing of Scientology that you declare all other groups to be heretics? To an outsider it seems a bit like the period in Catholic history when you had three popes, all of whom had excommunicated each other.
I would think that the free exchange of ideas amongst people interested in the technology would be good for the indy movement.
I don’t see that anyone is holding anything against Mayo here – it isn’t personal, it’s a KSW point.
Moving up the line out of this mess will require that ethics be put in where necessary and if we are reasonable we will merely continue to cop the condition we fail to assign.
“…The E/O works for from 90% to 99% of the group, not for the 1%.
When the E/O has done his duty to the group he can then take up the individual. I always handle things in that order:
1. Safeguard the group
2. Rehab the individual…”
– L. Ron Hubbard
HCOPL 7 December 1969 THE ETHICS OFFICER HIS CHARACTER
What Marty is doing here needed to be done by someone.
I’m suspect David is/was a good hat gone PTS and fallen into a lower condition and we can be compassionate about it. But that doesn’t change the fact that his actions have had extremely negative repercussions and continue to do so in PT.
So we safeguard the group and we apply standard ethics and justice technology. Not to attack or cause injury. But to put truth on the lines and clean up our own house so to speak.
As for David – it is up to him to pull himself up by his own bootstraps; speak up and put things right… or remain in hiding.
We are not responsible for David’s condition. He is.
But one thing I am certain of. Should he need it, there is not one single person here who would refuse him help.
I think we need to get off the kick of being ‘afraid to offend, scared to enforce’ when dealing with ethics tech. Like all other LRH tech it WORKS when applied correctly and is only destructive in the hands of a psycho (don’t think I need to mention any names here).
“There’s a whole lot of stone throwing going on from glass houses in my opinion.
I for one hope that differentiation is occurring here between telling of facts from a person’s viewpoint and of opinions or insults or carping criticisms.
How much bpc has been created by the invalidation of being told your comm was critical when the data you were imparting was simply time, place, form and event?…
Will everyone who thinks Marty’s comm is too critical or too harsh or mean or not granting enough beingness please stand up and move to the left side of the room please. Thank you. IMHO everyone else take a good look – these people cannot be trusted – they will weaken your ranks and sabotage your efforts.
Calling it like I’ve seen it.
Lynne
I disagree (LOL so what’s new?)
“it might be giving OSA a damn good chuckle to see any form of dissension in the ranks out here.”
It’s been very handy for OSA to throw the Indies in with those who are merrily squirreling away but now there is a very real danger in the public being made aware that there is standard tech to be had out in the Indie field.
DM’s pretend website is already ranting and raving about this article and what is it he’s trying to sell? That the C of M has the monopoloy on standard tech and materials.
The usual knee-jerk reaction is evidence enough that he is pooping his pants now that the squirrels are being cut loose.
Hi Marty,
I like what you do.
And I agree that keeping what is LRH’s pure so others can have those wins is a great idea.
I just don’t want to get back to the idea that: this is all there is and if you don’t do it my way then you are bad. What is shutting the cult down is that they couldn’t tolerate things and they had the biggest ser-fac around. While keeping the tech pure, let’s be tolerant too. I am not saying YOU are not tolerant. I think that you are for the most part. Hey, I don’t expect perfection. You are doing a far better job than I could ever do, so far be it for me to bitch and moan. I am just saying, what has been released gets a pretty good product. But the way I see it, LRH didn’t get the full product. He still got a GREAT product. But after you have done it all and still want to do more then you have to get experimental. Let’s not call anyone who did all of what LRH did and then gets creative an SP or squirrel. That would stifle ingenuity.
I am not talking anymore about David Mayo. He did whatever he did and that is that. I think he did good and bad like most of us.
As far as I know LRH researched OT levels to about OT 22 or something. We in the Indie field do not have that tech. Are we at effect now ? Asshole dm will probably burn that stuff. Are we supposed to just lie down and die? Someone will eventually have to get creative is all I am saying because what has been released is not the end all IMHO. It’s VERY GOOD. But let’s not be so quick to condemn someone else if they create something that can also help. I think LRH was a master of help in many ways. I can even recall (but not the name) of a tape where LRH says to mockup your own philosophy. Well, I think others can use what they learned in Scientology to help others using what they learned AND they can create their own also. I do think it is important to differentiate between the two so people know.
Anyways Marty, love what you are doing. You are a master communicator. You are an intellect and a wild man. Great combination.
Don’t go changin, to try to please me… LOL.. I know you never would and that’s why I love you man.
Tony. Ok, I am tracking with you. I am fixin on addressing this business with the “next level” fixation we’ve all been enticed with for so long. It is complicated by the very nature of the idea of the Bridge and all LRH implied, inferred and stated about “what’s next”. Remember the conversation we had about my view that LRH never really got to see in others the full potential of what he had already created? Never could in an environment where those set free were re-captured before they could leave the cage? Oh man, it is the wild, wild west ain’t it?
I’m no pope, I’m just a dude dishing from South Texas.
Or, maybe Tommy and DM were right:
Marty,
It is wild.
And it takes a wild thetan to be able to deal with a bunch of other wild thetans. dm couldn’t really hang and that’s why we are here. In a lot of ways we have already made it.
Sometimes I just like to hear myself talk…
🙂
LOL!!
BEGONE HERETIC!
😉
Don’t we all?
Wow, Troubleshooter. Nice. Now that you’ve done your selection, what’s next? The gas chamber?
Look, I agree that those who are out there knowingly and purposefully squirrelling — actually squirrelling should be called out and avoided. However, by some of the logic being applied here, Marty could to some degree be lumped in the same camp as Mayo. What about some of the things he did while PTS to Miscavage could not be classified as squirrelling? (sorry, Marty, not an ad hominem, just making a point). The difference between this and Mayo is that Marty is climbing back out of the hole. Mayo, as far as we know, is not. I will wager to say that if Marty had been hit the way Mayo is now being hit, chances are this blog wouldn’t exist and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
I’m not saying be reasonable. I’m saying that the way to salvage any being is to grant them beingness and use ARC. You’ll get much better results from my experience.
This clash between LRH and Mayo may be one of the more graphic true life demonstrations of the third-party law in our group. Just dawned on me while reading the blog and comments. It certainly took on a life of its own, but how did it start?
I’m on the right side of the room.
Mayo was a long time SO member and by that alone one can say he was at the right place and the right time to do some good. No question.
But at the end of the day what was his overriding motivation?
Last year – out of curiosity – at the mention of Sarge Gerbode’s name I bought his book: “Beyond Psychology, An Introduction to Metapsychology”
In his introduction, he profusely thanks Julie and David Mayo for their long technical and philosophical talks.
I found this disclosure by Marty which I never previously knew — GERBODE funded Mayo!!
Gerbode’s book which says “Scientology with Buddhism, Hinduism, Freundianism, Vedanta and other disciplines … fall short of being sciences, however, to the degree that each is committed to a certain proprietary doctrine. Metapsychology ought to exist — as a GENERIC field of study embracing the truths that have been discovered in all these disciplines …”
What was Gerbode’s motivation? Easy to see. Become the preeminent metapsychologist USING LRH’s tech and philosophy WHILE making it appear as his own.
To wit — page 542 – The Touch Remedy. WOW — here we have the Touch Assist and yet NO credit to LRH.
Same with Locational and the list continues.
Appears to me Gerbode’s motivation was obvious. Become THE preeminent person in the field — of HIS creation — metapsychology. After all he published a Journal of Metapsychology and had several centers around the US and UK.
Motivation.
It’s always but always THE underlying ground of action.
As human beings we make mistakes, we trip ourselves up BUT if we have work to maintain as PURE a motivation as we can muster, (to help myself and my fellowman) then MUCH is forgiven. In fact, nearly all. (karmically)
The secret for us all is to have what LRH called “Divine Doubt” — check our motivations by self-reflection and correct ourselves.
Love,
WH
Marty, these last two posts have shed some light on a conundrum that has been brought up a number of times, stated along these lines: How is it that LRH could have brought Mayo into his confidence, let him save his life, and then turned on him a few months later? Well, perhaps the Old Man saw a dangerous shortcoming in Mayo’s character, one that was fully exposed when Mayo joined forces with the FBI, IRS etc. to attack on Ron.
Perhaps if Miscavige had spent more time in Ron’s presence, the Old Man would also have spotted the black cinder that passes for the little guy’s soul.
“I will die before accepting anything from David Miscavige.
And I know for a fact the same goes for Mike Rinder and dozens of others who have been shoulder to the wheel over the past two years, after several decades of having their shoulders against another wheel that they thought was the one it is on now.”
(Would you like some cash, what about high seven or eight figures,
plus the custom Viryus DM motorcycle,
a new hangar for your airplane toys,
and a very special Silver Screen buss – just for you?) 😉
MARTY, thank you for reminding us about this.
But, just to let you know, I think most of the indy KNOWs this about you, Mike Rinder, Christie and a lot of other freedom fighters.
NO MAN would do all the work you do, with your blog and everything else, without REAL and HONEST love, care and compassion for LRH, his Legacy – Scientology Standard Tech and your fellow men.
That’s for sure.
So, thank you over and over again for everything you do.
Purpose:
1. L. Ron Hubbard’s legacy shall be resurrected
2. L. Ron Hubbard’s family shall be vindicated, including all belongings given back
3. David Miscavidge & followings shall be brought to justice
4. CoS management structure shall be reinstall as intended and designed by LRH: http://www.savescientology.com
By the way Dave boy:
Where is HEBERT Jentzsch – my President of the CoS?
Where is DIANA Hubbard – lovely daughter from LRH?
Where is SHELLY Miscavidge – your dear wife?
Yes,
Freezone = wild = stupid = squirl = A = A = A = A = A = A = A = A = A
Indies = OT = Standard Tech = god = A = A = A = A = A = A = A = A
Do you call this to differentiate ???????????????????
I call it arrogance !!!!!
By the way, most freezoner have not needed 20 years to find our the DM is an SP.
Thanks Marty for clarifying so much on Mayo. It was buried in darkness. Other than that, there are too many opinions posted. Persistent lies exacerbate simple attempts to understand. KSW includes “having the the correct technology”, “Knowing it is correct” but also “hammering out of existence any possibility of incorrect technology”. There is another persistent lie (or what I believe to be) I think is important. Could someone PLEASE explain (so far, no one knows who I have asked) how that alleged OT VIII document about Jesus being a pedophile (and LRH needing more OTs so he can reincarnate as a politician) found its way into anything? In his diatribes, Jesse Prince indicates it came down the line to DM (not from him). For that much BS to be on the lines and never having been dissected or properly analyzed or explained by anyone I find a rather remarkable outpoint. I don’t believe for a nanosecond that LRH wrote that. Yet, it found its way to the materials (according to what I’ve been told by former public). If that is so, and its not by LRH, there was a big monkey at work who is still undetected to this day. Please help me hammer it out of existence.
Fun watching all these ideas in collision. Theta impinging on MEST. Organisms/computations/realities forming.
Crash! Crunch! Ulp! Bigger ideas eating smaller ones. Microscopic ones invading giants to reek havoc from within.
Hiding behind a rock while monsters glide ominously above, casting shadows, seeking to devour. I cower. I do not want to become part of their body. I want to remain my self. Insignificant and cowering.
Primordial seas. Lurking. Hunting. Colliding. Organisms forming and reforming. Ideas in conflict. Seeking order. Learning and dying to come back and learn again.
Always a new reality up ahead. Always change. Forms once held become useless. Ideas, once held, dropped to the seabed to become tomorrow’s fossils.
Swimming. Scuttling. We hunt. We hide.
We collide.
We learn. And change.
As what once was held dearly drifts to the seabed.
To become tomorrow’s fossils.
Michael
Just because an idea knocks doesn’t mean you have to invite it inside for dinner.
I think the use of the word “squirrel” has been redefined in 1982 by Miscavige and Co. Means heretic, it has been carefully thought to become a political tool. It had the same feeling than some Stalinist vocabulary, with the word “disaffected”.
So, let’s not talk about “squirrel”. We are all to some degree scientologists, knowing more or less LRH tech. Some are good auditors, and are able to have initiative, now, too much initiative might means to some “squirreling”.
By def a squirel is low IQ, he can’t properly apply the tech, he then dream up stupids solutions. Prior 1982, it was a word almost not used, didn’t have much interest. A squirrel would have been someone doing really strange things, like giving peyotl to the PC to restimulate incident. I don’t think creating center not approved by RTC was squirrel on the basic def of the word which has been redifined for PR purpose.
I’m not here to defend Mayo, actually in early eighties, I was anti mayo. For example I thought the KSW series 22 to 26 he wrote (anyone remember?) was really inval of PC’s state of case, and it was signed LRH, and I knew it wasnot. At this time LRH was writting “Nature of a being”. Nothing to do at the same date. Also, He signed the first HCOB « OT Eligibility » assisted by SNRCS INT, in 1982. I don’t think it was LRH idea at all, it violates the idea of « checking before the fact ». (maybe it was not even Mayo)
Anyway, there was back then off source. Now, the question arise of what would be the real viewpoint of LRH, the actual evolution of research from his viewpoint ?
Are we going one day to use the hat of researcher ? Could we call that squirelling ?
I always wondered about that too, Special Frog. This blog is actually very free and open. It accepts a wide range of viewpoints. The corporate, traditional, conservative, Church of Scientology utilizes various policies and techniques to preserve and protect copyrights and other assets. It is more like a business. As I recall, the Papal conflicts centered around distribution of wealth and issues in biblical theology. Going back into the history of Scientology, one finds the origin of the “declares” and “excommunications”
stemming in part from the fact that in the early 1950’s it was noticed that a lot of people were not showing up due to negative pressure from friends, families etc. I think this is not unique to Scientology, but certainly it has developed to a much higher level.
I guess I read too hastily. I never heard about what is in the 3rd paragraph before.
I understand, Sam. I still like David Mayo and that’s all I wanted to say, really.
”As for David – it is up to him to pull himself up by his own bootstraps; speak up and put things right… or remain in hiding.
We are not responsible for David’s condition. He is.
But one thing I am certain of. Should he need it, there is not one single person here who would refuse him help”
Nicely said!
(authenticity unverified)
IMPORTANT POINTS ON WINDSURFING, MONEY AND THE SOUL
by
David Mayo, Retired
Hello, I hope you are all happy and well. Some of you may have (or not) been wondering what I’ve been up to for the last several years. Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve been very busy writing a lengthy, detailed book which will be called, “Windsurfing Your Way to Total Spiritual Freedom.” Here’s an excerpt:
“I have discovered that windsurfing is a very beneficial Meta-Psychological activity in that the sudden force of wind can pull the body away from the soul.” DM
Due out in July, 2011 for $24.95 from Amazon.com.
Speaking of money, I have personally discovered the sudden onrush of great amounts of funds into my bank account to be a tremendous catalyst for shooting one up the Scale of Tone (due to contractual obligations and legal constrictions, I’m not allowed to use any proprietary terms from the previous religion I was formally involved with. I am however allowed to phonetically identify it as Sigh-and-toll-oh-gee).
Going up the Scale of Tone brings one closer to the state of Functional Soul (again, I can’t use the term I was used to because of the gag order). So, money…yes…good…soul…freedom…functional…plus wind…you get the point.
In summation, I have come to understand why it is that those involved in the industry of salvaging the human soul pursue money with such dedication and commitment.
Well, back to my Spiritual Windsurfing Drills and then a hard day of writing.
Be well,
David Mayo
Spiritual Windsurfer
I was just folding laundry, watching the news, wondering why all this interest and confusion exists around David Mayo. What importance does it have? What value? Why the hubbub?
For me, the issue of David Mayo is sort of like one of the kids saying, “Dad, a raccoon is trying to get at the bird feeder!” So we all gather around the big windows overlooking the deck and watch as the raccoon desperately tries to reach the bird food, fail and lumber off hungry.
Nature at its best. Survival in action. Very interesting. Then we go back to paying the bills, doing homework, crafting birthday cards, playing video games and all the other things that consume our day to days.
David Mayo, as interesting as he is, has too little importance for me to camp at the windows all night in hopes that he’ll try to raid the bird food.
But raccoons, cute as they can be, can also be very destructive. And if you get bitten by one with rabbies…. Ouch, ouch, and ouch for a long time to come.
And I think the Mayo issue has contracted a bit of rabies.
What makes this scrawny, little fellow so important? Because of the precedence. Because of the justification. If this fella can come along and save LRH on his deathbed and invent some new tech, then any of us can. If Mayo saved Ron, then Mayo is suddenly either above Ron on the spiritual food chain, or at least his equal.
And if Mayo can invent new tech which becomes a major series of steps on the bridge, then any of us can. It’s like buying a lottery ticket. Ah, the hopes and dreams!
And the justification for “inventing new tech.”
You watch some scrawny guy with a sledge hammer smash the lever to drive the striker up to ring the bell, and you go, “Hell, give me that hammer. I outweigh that smuck by eight pounds.!”
How important was David Mayo? Would Scientology exist if he hadn’t come along? In the big picture, the carnival goes on with or without the little guy who paid a few bucks to swing the hammer and have a few laughs with his friends.
Michael
Man, you are brilliant. I’m heading back to the house of mirrors.
Ain’t that the truth?
Life!
That is what I am trying to do, in my apparently not quite adequate style.
This below quote from Marty along with Steve Hall’s Independent Scientology logo would make one good looking banner hanging over the group shot for the 2011 Indy party in Texas.
““Squirrels leave the church seeking freedom to do whatever hair-brained scheme their banks feed them. Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.”
Marty Rathbun-2011
Someone should contact the person(s) responsible for the 1st banner done for the last Indy party in Florida to see if a second banner can be made for upcoming Texas party.
A sharp Buddhist cookie you once again prove yourself to be.
I must say this is an interesting sideshow to me, but not really important. If you want to make what is agreed-upon by most as the standard tech, you can do it, if you want to do something else, you can do it too. I’ve found that the people who deliver stuff to people that really helps them will have lots of pcs even if they’re under a hell of attack.
The same way Marty has every right to declare how he sees things, what he likes and what he dislikes. As long as he sticks to facts – and I don’t have a reason to suspect him to be lying about them, I find it very interesting. But I don’t think much would happen if I didn’t look at it. 🙂
Michael — perfect.
I just had a though along these lines.
Why do so many people still talk about Mayo?
I don’t know. One thought I had was that some have known him before.
Done. When will it be ready Jack?
Tony, you can definitely rest assured that stuff was burned.
FF,
You are on a roll baby.
🙂
+1 Dennis. You said it much better than I.
Sam,
You are pretty sane.
I think we should keep you around.
🙂
I know. Me too.
Spoken like a true executive Mike.
🙂
Ditto on the thanks for everything you are doing and helping us get back to doing.
“Who better to advise on 501 c 3 tax compliance matters, than a former I.R.S. Agent who dealt in that specific area for years ?”
Someone that wasn’t meade emory.
Read this for truth:
http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.wikiscientology.org/founder.html
Docs linked to in the article.
Also this article briefly shows the intent of the whole thing.
http://www.scientologie.de/english/timetrack/data/cofs-profile/people/Emory.htm
Of course it is!
And thanks Marty to communicate what is true for you!
This incident begins to elucidate
WH
You have a special gift of putting pure truth into words.
Beautiful.
Marty,
Thanks for drawing the line so clearly in the sand. Point A starts with KSW and point B ends with KSW.
There are lots of bars in all big towns and by midnight they are all full of people who can tell you with total certainty what the road to total freedom and happiness is.
Don’t mind a good beer or two but when it comes to “The Road” I like to stick to A-B. Looking forward to the upcoming journey towards B with you.
All the best!
Oooh Jack! The gauntlet has been thrown
+1
Great idea by the way!
I agree too – this is the best line of Marty’s article and is one to be SAVED per Christie, read, and re-read from time to time as a PERFECTLY STATED reminder of what THIS independent movement is committed to.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and review the original topic which is whether NOTS is altered or was altered; who altered it and what happened to the original NOTS.
David Mayo is not around, he cannot audit or C/S anyone and whether he was good or bad, right or wrong, he has no impact on what is happening in 2011.
I think it would be good to get some more data on the various revisions of NOTS and who released these. This affected many people both financially and spiritually.
Hi Joe,
That would be a bummer.
Now, if LRH said that was what was needed to go OT (in the reference called “From Clear to Eternity” I believe?) (the burned stuff OT9-22?) is there anyone else around who will have the guts to try to recompile or use what he or she learned from Scientology to move thetans up higher? If they try, will they be condemned as “squirrels”?
Did LRH want us to only do what he told us to do? In this situation would he want us to think our way out of this? Or be dedicated to being robots and remain at effect? I think he would say ” Do what I released and study the tech.” “IF you really get it, you will be able to get the rest of the way out.” ” At least try.” “I never wanted you to be slaves”.
I think that LRH said somewhere that he is only teaching us what we already know. So if that is true then I think we have the capability of working out the rest for ourselves, but only if we are not mired down by “now I’m supposed to’s”. Who will issue the licenses to survive?
Joe, you gotta give us more than that,man!
Man, I’m just in the mood to contribute here lately.
Here’s some interesting material from an LRH lecture titled “Rudimentary DATA on Groups” that answers various comments here. :
“We ask of a group, does it have a life, an entity, an individuality, and so forth? It has all of these things. It is not an organism which is composed of the bodies of man, any more than a man is just, happily or accidentally, a collection of bits of rock and chemicals which just happens to have an analytical mind. I mean, it happens to have life. If you look at a group and say ”It’s just a collection of individuals,” that’s a bad mistake. The group is actually, actively, an entity. P 560
That entity has to have within it certain factors. Certain things are demanded of the individuals by that group, and the individual has a right to demand certain things of the group. For instance, a group will start to fall apart if it cannot demand, of the people within it, contributions of effort to its life. Strangely enough, the individuals in a group have the right to be able to contribute to that group. To refuse an individual the right to contribute to the group is to push him back.
As an example, take a church where everybody is passing the collection box. A child drops his dime in the collection box, and the person who is doing the collection reaches in, picks up the dime and hands it back to him, but takes the dollar and all the rest from the other people along the line.
The right to make a contribution to the group must not be denied to the individuals of that group. The only right the group has with regard to modification of that contribution is the right of coordinating it so that it doesn’t overbalance the purposes of the group. We have got to have an interplay and an interaction between dynamics one and three.
Now, the group must enhance the survival value of the first and second dynamics. The forecast of its survival can be made in these terms: The group has a potentiality of survival more or less in ratio to the amount it assists the individual, the future, man, life, theta and MEST…561
That from R&D new volumes 5. Pages 560-561
Of course, what answers one person’s questions might not answer another’s. A neighbor asks, “How do you change the oil in your car?” so you open the hood, show him the oil reservoir cap and the oil filter; drop down and show him the drain plug. Then you explain how to vent the system through the top while you drain the oil in a pan, then remove the oil filter, wait a bit, replace the plug, fill the reservoir, replace the cap and you’re good to go. He stares at you blankly and says, “Yeah, all fine and good, but how do you change the oil in your car?”
Who knows what he’s really asking?
Michael
ps: the above may not be an exact quote, but close. I copied and pasted from notes. Plus, I don’t know if the R&D volumes haven’t been altered here and there.
WH
To support your saying, i found this article on the net
The following is an article from Free Sprit Magazine. The author, Dr. Gerbode founded, in cooperation with David Mayo, Meta Psychology. David Mayo is a technical researcher who worked with Ron Hubbard for years.
http://www.freezoneearth.org/allmeters/scrapbook/GerbodeonMeters.htm
Sure, once one duplicated, understood and applied with consistent result that which he DID state explicitly in recorded and words and writings of an unprecedented scale.
Marty,
I haven’t read all of the posts on this thread but I wanted to post something that I think applies to the Opening Piece. Here goes.
It is evident that there are Failed Cases and Failed Students. How come?
Well, it comes back to me, the Course Supervisor. The failure on my part, early in the Scientology career of Scientologists, to roll up my sleeves and crack the back of bad studenting. To confront, and HANDLE that one student, who just doesn’t get what he’s reading, BEFORE time passes and there are other messes stuck to him.
In that failure of the Course Sup, one gets ‘auditors’ who can’t apply and CSes who are not Standard, and from there ‘failed cases’.
Well, Scientology DOES work and the critical juncture of that fact is the beginning of the study of the subject. THERE is where KSW is the fact as if it isn’t done there, then the subject is missed. It is not missing pieces of the Bridge, it is MISSED pieces. They are there, but not brought home, repeating a datum as many times as necessary, clearing the words to full conceptual understanding and not ceasing or desisting in applying STUDY TECH and SUP TECH, WORD CLEARING TECH TO THAT STUDENT so they get the idea and gain the reality on that particular datum. Then THEY will know, and what’s more, they will apply it to others.
Well, right now, in Havana Florida there is The Courseroom where I guarantee any student who comes here, any person who needs Cramming, any person who gets in session to get them ready to study, WILL BE HANDLED and they will get Scientology. Or they’ll be dead. In which case, I’ll get them in the next body.
Thanks, I think I just got fully duplicated. VGI’s.
I am going to China today for two weeks so I may be out of comm for awhile. I will tell our Chinese brothers and sisters you all said Hi!!
Nicely written piece.
As I said earlier, I was present the day the “materials” arrived. Most ex SO Members and anyone who went on a “mission” knows the two main way to lie without lying —“Acceptable Truth” and “Shore Story” When missionaires would go to outer organizations their Mission Orders always contained a “shore story”. This is what to respond to any public or staff when they ask “why are you here”. It always contains a bit of truth, as does an Acceptable Truth.
DM was delivering NOTs prior to his “Anonymous Package”, so it is most likely that he did write from memory some of the things, to get his Auditors able to deliver the DMayo version of NOTS. It is true that he did not first receive the Pack. It was received and organized by Allen Buchannan., whom I personally watched as he reorganized the materials that had come in the mail. So whatever DMayo said about not directly receiving those materials, was technically an “Acceptable Truth”, because he did not receive any anonymous package, Allen did. As I said before, there were several of these packs sent round the world, all from England.
So, seems his shore story was not good enough and he got hung by it… And his “acceptable Truth” had too many holes in it.
nancy many
nancy many
If all 3 people who deify Mayo and scorn LRH will please raise their hands we can acknowledge and end the session.
“LRH never really got to see in others the full potential of what he had already created. Never could in an environment where those set free were re-captured before they could leave the cage.. ”
This is my reality also.
I think LRH did it all and more.
And I think DM in his inability to duplicate and apply any of it (and thus get results) is still looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. As are the squirrels who follow in his footsteps within or without the church.
Maybe it’s just easier to jump into the rainbow 🙂
Marty, thanks for providing clarity regarding Mayo setting himself up as source. In the Fort Harrison lobby in 83 Mayo’s recorded lecture about “harmonics of Clear” and “boots in the sky” was played over and over.
People look at Mayo with rose colored lenses because of nostalgia and the human need to remember a better time when things made sense, particularly when there is such dispair in relation to the husk of the current church. Nostalgia denies man his progress.
Okay, I got to reading my the text of Rudimentary Data on Groups and may have found a suitable answer as to why LRH would keep so many who turned out to be “suppressive” around him.
Page 567 of R&D 5 (new):
The finest groups in terms of morale, esprit, ideas, goals and futures have been made in the past out of criminals, psychotics and aberrees beyond aberrees! The individual aberration state is only a minor influence upon the group, actually, because there is such a small part in each one. But the group influence upon the individual is tremendous. Man is so thoroughly evolved, he is so constructed and he exists to such a degree as a group person that he is lost and doesn’t exist actually at all unless he is part of that body of ideas. Exile from a group is actually tantamount to death to an individual. Exile from all groups would be the most hideous thing that could happen to an individual. 567
“Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.”
I like that definition of Independents, good solid action definition – after nearly 20 years of seeing my beloved group tear itself to pieces and generate misery & incompetence almost impossible to comprehend I think the Phoenix is at last dusting off her feathers.
To hell with Mayo and others who stamp authority as a possession. A being is only as valuable as they can serve others… that’s a big sentence to contend with for those not so pure of heart.
The more I study and work with LRH’s tech the more I’m humbled at sometimes the overwhelming simplicity which “rattles the eyeballs in their sockets” when I realise I’ve MU something for so long.
But two things I often see in regard to Thetans. One is, an uneducated Thetan is a master at their own deception & the other is to ponder just how educated need a Thetan be to loose their body and all worldly possessions, comm lines etc then cheerfully start another game. LRH explains it at length but boy doesn’t it put the human condition in perspective. The future is what you make of it.
Thanks Marty, not an easy ship to steer.
@Infinity: it is more than a little presumptuous of you to assume I have not studied this matter at least as earnestly as yourself. Perhaps, if you were to reexamine these two sites you linked whilst fully apply the Data Series, you might learn something.
The most major fact those two sites have gotten wrong, is that Meade Emory had little-to-nothing to do with the Scientology corporate restructuring – ALTERED IMPORTANCE.
Larry Brennan, then Special Unit I/C and WDC Member X was the principal architect of the new corporate structure, yet is not mentioned at all by either of those two sites, thus demonstrating a complete lack of insider knowledge as to what was *really* going on
– OMITTED DATA.
Another big problem with this “IRS really runs Scientology” conspiracy theory site is that it makes all sorts of assumptions about the CST corporation which are not borne out in it’s corporate charter and by-laws. numerous CONTRARY FACTS.
I strongly recommend that you earnestly study Larry Brennan’s accounts of the Scientology Corporate Sort-out, as he was actually there, unlike the anonymous authors of the above sites you linked.
http://larrybren.blogspot.com/
David McSavage is the one in control of Scientology, not the IRS.
Michael A. Hobson
@Marty:
It’s those goddamned free beings! They are all such nuisances! So disorderly! So contentious! Those f***ers are getting in my way! If only they all thought the same way as me, I could get something done!
That pattern of thought is what gave us the whole track implanters. I’d rather have the free beings, as much of a pain as we are.
Michael A. Hobson
That is pretty much what drives me.
—————————————————————————————
And what is one rising to, after all?
One is rising to eternity.
You think time is behind you?
Have another thought. Look ahead.
There’s eternity!
And you’ll be in it.
You’ll be in it in a good state or a bad one. Really, I’m sorry to have to tell you, there’s no choice. One may be able to step off the planet. One isn’t going to step off life.
In this time and in this place – for possibly just a little while, we have this chance. To go free and to make it. Planets and cultures are frail things. They do not endure.
I cannot promise you that you will make it. I can only provide the knowledge and give you your chance.
The rest is up to you.
I strongly advise you work hard at it – don’t waste this brief breath in eternity.
For that is your future – [b]eternity[/B].
It will be good for you or bad.
And for you, my dearest friend, I’ve done what I could to make it good for you.
[i]ED 342 INT/RJ 35[/i]
Michael:
Correctly included. Correct target.
I laugh when I read the conspiracy theories about Meade Emory.
I worked alongside Larry Brennan and Lyman Spurlock on the great corporate sort out of the early 80’s. I was the “Clearwater Corporate Sort Out In Charge” and oversaw the establishment of the FSO and all that entailed (rather a complex activity to transfer assets and liabilities from the existing C of S of California).
Meade Emory was hired BECAUSE he was a former IRS guy. There were a bunch of others too over the years. If you are trying to gain tax exempt status, you go to the people who know how to do it (or at least in theory).
There are hundreds of lawyers in Washington (and elsewhere) who make a living this way. Former DOJ tax lawyers become tax lawyers to the stars in private practice (Gerry Feffer). Ex White House Officials become influence peddling lawyer/lobbyists. Former FBI officials become criminal defense lawyers etc etc etc. By the same logic as the “Emory Theory”, Gerry Feffer was secretly working for the IRS in representing Leona Helmsley and she lost her case because he deliberately threw it as part of an IRS plan.
The “Meade Emory Theory” is as credible as the “Santa Claus Theory” — frankly, Meade and Santa had a lot in common. Hardly the point man for a take-over of an international organization! (Meade never did a THING, he was a “name” and that was the extent of his activity).
I havent read Larry’s site. But I suspect he covers it well — he was always smart and meticulous. I bet her has far more detail than I could ever recall about this time.
Also the e-meter reads film that had him pull up in a Rolls Royce and featured him just as much as the e-meter reads. I bet he took a copy or two as he was departing 🙂
I just think there should be a clear and known distinction between those who practice standard tech and those that don’t, so that those who want to get the results available from the standard application of Scientology do not get tripped up by those who do not apply standard tech but pretend that they are doing so. It’s merely about not getting fooled, that’s all.
Great exchange, gentlemen! You both are discussing two sides of the same coin.
I realized a while ago that Scientology is not done. It is not all there. When you think about it, we are talking about life – our existence – itself. Of course it is not done yet. I have personally seen astounding truths not covered or under-emphasized by Scientology in areas like Christianity, Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, and, for that matter, Physics. No person or subject has a monopoly on truth. If LRH were here now, do you think he would have stuck a fork in it in 1986 and retired?
The only label that encompasses the full scope of Truth is “Truth.” Scientology is the study (and application) of truth and knowledge. It is not a bucket of stuff with an inside and an outside. By slicing truth into categories, we are limiting it and slicing some of it off. We can only expand ourselves by intelligent review and reflection on all knowledge.
But!
We have the tech. There is Standard Tech. There are key, key things that exist in Scientology and nowhere else. Also, there are very precise technologies and techniques that will produce results when duplicated and delivered exactly. The TRs are the TRs. Listing and Nulling is Listing and Nulling – and Service Facs are Service Facs, and the map is there to blow them.
My handle is Grasshopper because I believe in apprenticeship and the duty of people to look at what something is before deciding on it one way or another. You can’t walk into a course room, see someone doing doll drills or TR 8, and decide the subject is BS. The way to find out is to learn it as it is, exactly as it is, and apply it exactly as it is. This is true of any subject. To be the master, you must KNOW how it is done. You must KNOW and understand the rules… before you can break them.
This is, as you say Marty, the Wild West. We are sailing dangerous waters, because the subject is not done, and therefore, it must be extended – but it cannot be squirreled.
To me, a squirrel is someone in obsessive change, who cannot and will not duplicate someone else’s idea or concept. It MUST be changed (“improved”). The change is not based on making it better, but based on making it their idea. Or fit their world-view. Or making it cheaper, or “easier,” as opposed to more effective.
This is straight out of KSW:
So, the key to this is to know the subject well enough to master it. When someone knows Standard Tech completely, then new data comes in and can align with the Truth he already knows and can then see if it might work or not. This is not squirrel. This is application of Scientology.
It is a fine line, though, and as beings we all have different points of view and different experiences, and different opinions. This is the relish, Marty!
I know we’ll make mistakes – we can’t help but make mistakes. But mistakes made with the goal of helping people rather than controlling them or making ourselves right will, in the event, help us understand more and get us closer to the goal.
Most excellent viewpoint.
Not to be a weenie, but it should be spelled ‘hare-brained’. As in a hare. They have hair, maybe their brain is made of hair, yet, it’s still a ‘hare-brane'(hee).
+1
Exactly!
Michael,
These docs, which you asked for, shows that meade emory was involved in the IRS attempt to audit the church in 1971 as Legislation Attorney for the Joint Committee on Taxation of the United States Congress…
http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.wikiscientology.org/documents/1971-05-01clubertonaudit.html
http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.wikiscientology.org/documents/1970-01-01emoryjointtaxcmt.html
“The most major fact those two sites have gotten wrong, is that Meade Emory had little-to-nothing to do with the Scientology corporate restructuring – ALTERED IMPORTANCE.”
I would swap your words “had little-to-nothing to do with” to “should have had nothing to do with”…
I think you are being naive about this michael.
Well, Jim, I think hair-brained is an alternate spelling of hare-brained.
There’s another variant too — Herr-brained. Refers to those who march in goosestep with Herr Hitler or Dear Leader. 🙂
Meade Emory = Santa Claus.
Turning all your posts into videos and posting them on a “video blog”, as peekaboo mentions, is actually a pretty good idea, Marty. Videoblogs do generate their own audience, I have heard.
I know you would need to have more of an admin infrastructure to do something like that, but maybe down the road…..
@Marty:
I think that “worship” for David Mayo is not really the phenomena you are observing. I think you are observing a very clear demonstration of “Confusion and the Stable Datum” at work.
During the early 80’s, McSavage’s handiwork (destruction of the GO, the Mission Network, inception of the Finance Police, etc) effectively destroyed the Church of Scientology as the major Stable Datum for thousands of Scientologists. In many cases, Ron Hubbard himself was destroyed as a Major Stable Datum, because so much of McSavage’s vile deeds were falsely attributed to Hubbard.
And so, for many of those who kept Hubbard as a stable datum but lost the C of S as one, David Mayo and his ACC’s became a new stable datum. Bill Robertson came to fill that role for others.
Many of those who lost Hubbard as well as the C o S as stable data became “squirrels” or outright Enemies of Scientology and even Hubbard. Many others went into complete Confusion on the subject and either went mad or withdrew from the subject entirely to avoid going mad.
So, what I see happening is only this: Your posts appear to some as an attack on the only Stable Datum they have to hold back the Confusion that Scientology became for them in the 80’s. To the degree you shake their adopted stable datum of David Mayo, you see all manner of efforts to keep that datum stable being put forth.
That is my observation. Your Mileage May Vary.
Michael A. Hobson
“(Meade never did a THING, he was a “name” and that was the extent of his activity).”
Hmmmmmm.
Michael above says “Who better to advise on 501 c 3 tax compliance matters, than a former I.R.S. Agent who dealt in that specific area for years ?”
So Michael is saying Meade advised, whilst Mike is saying Meade didn’t do a thing. Which one is it guys?
Meade was very much, as former assistant to the commissioner of IRS part of the legal takeover of the church *from GO & mary sue*. Not saying IRS owns/runs the church, but they made sure it wasn’t owned by Mary Sue and GO. Get it? This meant Miscavige and his crew of SPs could legally destroy the church.
+1
I had enough squirrel auditing in the church; I don’t need more outside the church. I’ve learned my lesson – slowly, but I learned it. These posts and this blog and all of the comments have helped me understand how easy it is for the tech to be altered, even by people we might not want to think of as dirty scoundrels.
And I’ve also been shown that I am the one who needs to take responsibility for the quality and standardness of the tech I apply, rather than trusting the figurehead of an organization to take that responsibility for me. Because that figurehead I’m trusting just might turn out to be a certified nutcase working within a criminal organization.
In the future, even if I’m dumb enough to fall for some squirrelly tech PR, the “free market” of the independent field allows me to learn who and what can be trusted to stay true to the tech. And my reaction time to squirrel tech is much shorter these days.
“This meant Miscavige and his crew of SPs could legally destroy the church….”
(to continue my thought on this)
…Which if you look at my original post on this you’ll see was well accomplished by 1993. At which point IRS felt safe to reward such destructive behaviour with religious status….
Hi Marty,
These have been a couple of enlivening and enlightening posts. Having been around since the mid-70’s this has definitely cleared up some questions I had about David Mayo. Also, it serves as a reminder and reinforcement of my conclusions concerning the psychotic usurping runt. Enough said on that.
Never-the-less, the most important information lies in the facts revealed here about NOTs being alive and well and on-source in the independent field. That in itself is a game changer at least for me. Thank you very much.
Regards some of the noise from the peanut gallery here’s a quote that I find germane:
“When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.”
Sir Winston Churchill
Lastly, another quote from Churchill is my thought for the day:
“Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending, ever-improving path. You know you will never get to the end of the journey. But this, so far from discouraging, only adds to the joy and glory of the climb.”
Gratefully yours,
Tom Gallagher
Jim:
I have much admiration for you, having read your posts these last few months and read many of your articles on Steve Halls’ site.
So .. on the heels of your comment here, I must ask a question that haunts me … and I knowingly risk pissing you and others off. Ok .. so be it. BTW .. I’m a Class IV auditor from the early days, admin trained, time on staff and all the way up the Bridge. So here goes:
I don’t agree that the supervisor needs to continue working with the student until he or she “gets it.” I find that personally offensive, after 30+ years. I can give you examples of having that applied to me as a student at Flag, undergoing retraining after being an auditor from the early 80s.
I understand this datum with regard to the application of auditing technology and that it is an exact technology and we mustn’t let Mrs. Pattycake walk away with a squirrel concept of it. And .. having been the receipt point of Black Dianetics I understand why this is necessary.
But to assume that a student doesn’t get what he’s reading if he doesn’t agree with it or see its application and that the student must now be word cleared or otherwise “corrected,” is something I now object to.
There ARE datums that I was force fed — technical points — that I just “didn’t get.” One great example of this is the new PTS/SP course I did a few years ago — I was constantly at the word clearer trying to get to the bottom of contradictions in the data and finally gave up on entirely resolving these and just made it right in my universe and took the wins did have.
But do you know where I finally cleared all of this up? Reading YOUR article on Steve Halls’ site!!!!! OMG! The concept I had of this data from ’82 came back fully to me when I read your article!! So truth is .. I didn’t get it while studying at Flag for a reason: the data was altered and my analyzer was snagging on the outpoints! But had I continued to originate that I didn’t get it … I would have had someone “cracking the back” of this “bad student” who just “doesnt get it.”
I also had it at Flag on the three swing F/Ns with supervisors convinced it was their job to roll up their sleeves and handle me until I “got it!”
LRH says “what’s true for you is what’s true for you.” It’s based on your own observation. I believe judgment has to enter into this independent scenario or we wind up back in David Miscavige’s church, where even veteran SO members are taught to to “crack the back” of students who just “don’t get” David Miscavige’s brand of Scientology. Next decade it could be Mike’s brand, Sue’s brand, Don’s brand, etc …
If I were in a courseroom today with all of the experience I now have, there are datums I would disagree with. And if someone was on a mission to “crack the back” of my bad studenting, we’d have a rough go of it.
I don’t believe LRH was right 100% of the time in all matters outside of how to apply the technology to another being. And I don’t believe he would try to tell me he was, either.
And until I have certainty again that the material being studied is the correct material for the situation, I will not relinquish to someone else the judgment to determine that I “dont get it.”
I do believe that there is a correct way to apply this technology and that everything that pertains to procedure should be absolutely word cleared, etc — but that only works with the supervisor himself knows the ideal scene.
All other data — it’s MY call to make, not a supervisor’s. And to me, this view that the student is basically wrong if they don’t agree with LRH op basis has not been workable in Scientology. I don’t think you’re saying this, by the way. I think when it comes to procedure, you’re applying this view. But not necessarily PDC, Management Tech, etc Am I right?
Maybe I’m just a tad overrun on the CofS know best approach to MY understanding of the subject.
Rant over.
@Infinity: I asked you for documents to prove your claim that IRS was trying to bankrupt Scientology. Your reply is nonresponsive. OMITTED DOCUMENTATION
You provide documents for some of Meade Emory’s activities as an IRS employee in 1970 and 1971 as evidence of the degree of his involvement in the Scientology Corporate Sort-Out of 1981-1982 ? DROPPED OUT TIME, ADDED INAPPLICABLE DATA, WRONG SOURCE (I could go on).
Your remark about my alleged naivete is an ad hominem – ADDED INAPPLICABLE OPINION.
You are doing a fine job racking up the Outpoint Count, Mr. Pseudonymous.
Michael A. Hobson
You wear the Qual hat well Jim. 🙂
Have fun Big T
And bring us back some egg rolls 🙂
Dan,
Totally agreed. Would like to add that if PB audited by RM for a week at a hotel in San Bernadino with reports which didn’t have to go through DM & PB in ’84, perhaps things would have been different as well.
This is no different than one Christian group claiming they are the only real Christians and all others who claim to be Christians are wrong.
See handy diagram:
Various groups are all claiming to be practitioners of “standard tech”. You are welcome to believe your group is the real one and make arguments to support that.
I’m just pointing out this is a well-trod path for new religious groups and arguing for the benefits of ecumenism.
hmmm
LOL… OK you may have a point.
I have learned that the people I can trust the most are those who can confront force . A real friend can confront force. It’s easy,lets say, to be friends with someone at a barbecue. Someone there could be an ax murderer, for all you know, but he tells good jokes.
The more responsible the position, the more force you have to deal with such as There are people wanting to kill you. There are people wanting to pay you for their loyalty or there is 3rd party. Once you take on that position,you take on a loyalty to that position, even with injustices. If you crack and succumb, you have let a lot of people down.
I don’t know how many times I have applied liability, but its been a lot. There I am, some sobbing mess, betrayed again. Boy, did I have to confront “who are your friends” For a lot of people it can be at the sympathy level-like she gave me a tissue when I was bawling my eyes out. I;m not against that,but it is very limited
How a bout a friend who applied some real tech to you or spots an SP and handles him or tells you the truth. They won’t sell you out.They show you the way out and put muscle on you. I do have some great friends. But the best friend of all is Ron.
Infinity. You are insistent on keeping this going it seems. The statements are not contradictory. I said he was hired to advise on getting exemption, and that subsequently he did nothing (when he was supposedly running CST as a Special Director). Obviously it wouldnt matter to you what anyone who was actually there said, you are going to continue to believe whatever you want. More power to you.
Just one final question: Do you leave cookies out for Santa on Christmas Eve?
@Infinity: I asked you for documents to prove your claim that IRS was trying to bankrupt Scientology. Your reply is nonresponsive. OMITTED DOCUMENTATION
no michael i provided documentation that shows he was involved in the attempt to audit the church in 1971. the intent of that audit is up to you to perceive, but i see a bad intent to financially crush the church and lrh.
So you are saying meade was hired to advise because of his IRS expertise, but he did not advise in the end.
hmmm.
as to your continual santa claus mockery…you need to grow up with silly osa style communication.
no, carry on, its what makes scientology look very mature and like a real bonafide spiritual religion, sir.
why not make such ridiculous childish comments on national media for over a decade as the representative of the religion thats going to save humanity. oh wait…
The long range plan is to eliminate the hierarchical society altogether. The tools of Scientology are applied by individuals, and the intention to help comes only from the individual. Here is the real deal:
The ultimate truth is a static
p.s. jason beghe had the right idea about you i think.
RJ,
You said: ” Is it possible that he liked being secluded out there in Creston virtually undisturbed and unmolested?”
The answer to that is a big fat – NO! He had always wanted to get the legal situation handled so that he could return “on the lines” and back at the Int base. In 82 I did a project to establish LRHs audio lines at the base. He had personally tons of gear in order to record and mix RJs and the like, including fixing up old lectures he did over the years. I got an RAV on post and we put together the latest new gear to record his RJs at the time which was used & subsequent recording mixed and duplicated and sent to all orgs with higher quality than before.
There were projects in the HU to prepare for LRH’s arrival and to make sure the service lines were working and smooth. In fact “82 Renos” at the base was a total engram as one of the targets was to convert the swimming pool to the Clipper ship which is a space for LRH. DM in his management style set up a TM of six weeks for the that to be completed, using Rick Aznaran as the IC of that mission. Most of the base was up all day and night to complete this and didn’t make that TM by a long shot! Many “unqualified” staff were offloaded and new ones gotten in at that time.
I love Gene, Sargio and Annie – but they’re a far cry from CMO and HU providing LRH with his service facilities.
Mike,
I agree with your theory to an extent.
However I feel you assign to much cause to the lil’ SP Squirrel.
First of all he was not responsible for the collapse of the GO which was the cosmic trigger for the big bang that followed.
I mean come on the guy was at SH slappin’ one of his PC’s silly when the deal with the GO was going down and Benedict Miesner was writing up GO 1361 ensuring future ….intervention…by the forces of “Law and (dis)Order in what I like to call the Chainsaw Massacre.
True lil’ Dave capo deimed when he became the I/C of MAC but there other players as well who wanted what Dave wanted and they were working behind the scenes getting it.
Why do you think the Ol’man developed RB Tech?
Because he was hallucinating?
Come on Mike!
You musta read the same GO dirs that I have in your endless quest for “dox” .
If not you can find a sampling of them here:
http://www.freezone.org/timetrack/data/policies/index.htm
Also there is the policy known as ‘Counter Espionage’ and many other PLs written earlier that tell us what we were up against.
Not to mention RJ 67.
Miscavige was late on the chain and he was subsequent to the confusion that started for many Scientologists with the raid on their Churches in DC and LA.
The exact point was probably around 0630 when the FBI threatened to use a sledge hammer to open up the Horse Shoe reception door if it wasn’t unlocked immediately.
Dave at this point wasn’t even on his Product 0.
“You provide documents for some of Meade Emory’s activities as an IRS employee in 1970 and 1971 as evidence of the degree of his involvement in the Scientology Corporate Sort-Out of 1981-1982 ? DROPPED OUT TIME, ADDED INAPPLICABLE DATA, WRONG SOURCE (I could go on).”
no, this is documentation that is evidence that meade was involved in trying to audit the church in 1971. as you asked for docs about my comment that meade was involved in the IRS attempt to bankrupt the church (i leave the intent of the audit up to you to discern, but i see a destruction intent there.)
Why hope – Its available 🙂
Mike,
That goosestep could be to Helmet-Herr-Brains.
I just dug my copy out of the closet. In fairness to Gerbode he spends nearly 2 pages of the the book acknowledging the part Scientology played in the creation of Metapsychology. About later sections of the book I am ignorant as I concluded after the first chapter that he must have had serious misunderstoods to write such drivel and didn’t read further.
BeFreeNow, BRAVO!
My understanding of “cracking the back of bad studenting” is seeing to it that a student applies the study tech in order to duplicate the Data and can perform the action called for.
Its a help flow.
The Point is Understanding & Application, not Agreement.
As long as Disagreement does not render application and result ineffective, I doubt very much anyone would argue with your observations or what is true for you.
That brings a reference I like to mind: HCOPL 14 Feb 65 Safeguarding Technology
http://blacklies.xenu.ca/archives/1046
Be Free Now,
A Sup or Cram Off with a Ser Fac sucks hard. There’s an issue on that very topic (HCOB 3 Feb 79 Iss I, Change The Civilization Eval). I understand your bad experience with them, I’ve had it myself.
That troll issue was being circulated in the field around 1984. Doesn’t the line about spontaneous combustion give it away?
I don’t find the statement that it found its way into the materials credible at all.
Neither am I convinced that Jesse Prince has an intimate aquaintance with truthfullness as a virtue.
It was a troll.
Be Free – I am VERY much in agreement with you. And I think the LRH of the 50s (“power of choice” over data in lecture “Education”, essay on “Personal Integrity”,Scientology Axiom 2, etc) would be too.
But once an authoritarian religion is established and the leader (founder, prophet, etc) is looked on as “the bringer of truth” (period, no if’s, and’s or but’s) we get what has eventually happened to Scientology.
People can elect David Miscavige as total cause all they want (of course it is necessary to expose an SP’s crimes) and they will be elevating him to a status he does not deserve.
Elect yourself cause of your own understanding and take responsibility for your own considerations and agreements (these are my aspirations for myself anyway and I’m getting there).
LRH is the source of a great amount of wisdom. Use it as you wish to improve the game of life. But I am more convinced than ever that A does not equal A. One LRH datum that is as true as gravity for you does not equal another LRH datum that you find is UNtrue, which does not equal an LRH decision on the 3rd dynamic, etc. You have the right as a being (and the responsibility to yourself) to evaluate EVERY LRH datum and action per your own observations and experience.
Great details, thanks for sharing them.
I’m a llittle late answering this, but Tony, the tech film specially for the Briefing Course, is based on an LRH script.
That BC film gives the BC students FUTURE role, up the track.
I so wish we had the “Why TRs” film in the public domain.
Plenty have told the gist of that film, but in that film LRH says what at least a BC auditor’s future lives, WAY up the track, might and should be about.
Chuck
Yes, however I think I need to restate that the AAC mission that stole the packs was comprised of AAC people in close communication with David Mayo.
They wished to keep that tech closely under wraps within their control. The photocopying of the packs and their distribution was not in any way a humanitarian work of any involved in the AACs which I personally chose to keep a safe distance from. The East Grinstead scene went crazy from 1985 on with such things happening as auditing people over drugs such as lithium and chlorpromazine and exteriorization courses being offered while on peyote.
I don’t think he had a choice in the matter, due to the input of data via Pat Broeker and DM.
“I was willing to let bygones be bygones and largely have over the past two years. But, I think it is high time to clearly delineate what we stand for and distinguish it from others with not so lofty goals.”
Rather than ‘letting bygones be bygones’ you would accomplish more actual good by opening your board to a discussion of the actual facts relating to the history of the Church of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, and the gradual evolution of the scientology field from an open group of individuals interested in pursuing spiritual truth (1950s) through the formation of the Sea Org (mid-60s) and ultimately into a dangerous cult involving a cowed group of brainwashed individuals subject to the whims of the leadership of the Sea Org (destruction of the Mission Network to the present day).
If you are going to attempt to discredit others for their ‘attacks on LRH’, then it is only reasonable to consider what actions undertaken by LRH or expressly ordered by him which might have served as a basis for such perceived ‘attacks’.
As to the old timers who are only now ‘coming out of the woodwork’ because of all you have done in recent years, arguably its the Anonymous crowd who deserve the most credit for having renewed the current challenge to church leadership and encouraging those members of the church & former field who had been cowed & disaffected as a result of Sea Org actions & requirements to reconsider their individual relationships with the church, scientology, and L. Ron Hubbard.
The internet has proved to be a powerful tool for spreading truth & for the promoting the dissemination of tech. Personally, I have no doubt that had we had the internet available in its current form in the early 1980s, the church would have been successfully reformed and decades of misery avoided.
DFB, Frank Gerbode was a wealthy psychiatrist/scientologist, funding Mayo’s legal fight against the CoS and LRH in the 1980s. Mayo was also providing technical consulting to Gerbode in Gerbode’s attempts at integrating Dianetics/Scientology into the fields of psychiatry/psychology (see “Traumatic Incident Reduction (TIR)” and “metapsychology”).
+1 Ignazio, great post & please continue!
Someone emailed me that Trey Lotz said that that OT VIII HCOB about Jesus being a pedophile was an admitted fabrication by someone in Germany. Email Trey. chuckbeatty77@aol.com
Doing a Google search I found a reference that Gerbode met personally with Miscavige.
Supposedly a mutual deal was made that Gerbode would stop his support of Mayo and in exchange he would get to use the materials but not call them Dianetics or Scientology.
Any corroboration or back story to this?
:-)Me too.
Thanks again for clearing the air re Mayo. This discussion has been phenomenal. I think the key issue with Mayo is that we need to recognize and acknowledge source. Mayo was not source, but was truly trying to wear the mantle of source. I don’t have my BC packs in front of me, but I remember outright “HCOBs” with the signature being Ron “as assisted by Snr C/S Int.” – and in the text, sentences beginning with “When Ron and I were researching TRs…” Really?
That is Icarus stuff, right there.
Ron was able to develop this stuff because he rejected all, and I mean all, “conventional wisdom” and orthodoxy of the day. I mean, Christ, the PDC was in 1952. Jews were banned from “restricted” neighborhoods. Blacks were still in “separate but equal” schools with their own water fountains. Yogurt was an exotic, some-how left-wing food. You don’t give a PDC course to make money, and you don’t do it to agree with the world. You do it to report on what was observed come hell or high water.
How many times have we read or heard something by Ron and said to ourselves “How the CUSS did he do that? How did he figure this out???”
And yet HE did. HE looked at all this and was able to glean the wheat from the incredible mountains of chaff. And if the wheat looked crazy, he still recognized it as wheat. How many people rejected past lives in the Scientology/Dianetics schism? How many people asked Ron to lay off this crap?
The key point here is that Mayo is not source, nor even a slice of source. He may be an okay guy.
Wow. And so says Ingrid!
By the way, RJ, the FBI did not threaten to do it, they did it. They chain-sawed doors in the Horseshoe area, pulling out PC and other folders in their quest for stuff. Thank God they did not go for the research building – for there was the entire tape lecture archives.
It seems to me, windhorse, in the interest of getting fundamental truths integrated into society and “using the philosophy in all its applications and variations in the humanities”, creating a branch of an existing subject (i.e. meta-psychology as a branch of psychology) is one way to disseminate Scientology into society. As long as the connection/credit is made back to LRH/Scientology — which Gerbode appears to have done above — I don’t see how anyone/anything is getting harmed. And in fact, Scientology and LRH only get wider recognition.
From the “Code of a Scientologist”:
“15. To stress the freedom to use Scientology as a philosophy in all its applications and variations in the humanities.”
Yea, a lot did know him, and trusted that they’d get good C/Sing at the AAC.
To have THE top tech person shot from guns, ousted, quit, and then surface at a time when so many other people were quitting or being ousted, in the early 1980s, I think was the situation that presented itself.
I heard or read that someone rekindled him, urged him to set up an external Scientology operation up, there’s a lot more to the story. Sure he had a somewhat uniquely stubborn and slightly big head, but listen to his lectures, he’s not an all out egomaniac by a long shot. But that he went so south I’d be interested in someone filing in his thinking (but not here on this site, I’ll look it up elsewhere). Glad at least to learn here he
sued LRH, etc.
In listening to his lectures somewhat carefully, I noted him progressively getting reasonable about allowing squirreling, particularly doing Bridge steps out of sequence. I’d heard, and partially experienced, his penchant even as Snr C/S, to zero in and do pinpoint C/Sing, which was in fact the violations that LRH lays out in C/S Series 115 MIXING RUNDOWNS AND REPAIRS, 28 Sept 82, which is about Mayo’s bad C/Sing.
Mayo did some damage, I believe in his C/Sing, but I’m not expert at all to know to what extent he screwed up Int staff’s cases, or not.
C/S Series 115 deserves a read, if one is weighing what LRH said about Mayo’s mistakes as a C/S.
Mayo surely did impact a lot of people. He left at a time when a lot of people were also leaving, so your conclusion a lot knew him I think is the case.
This is more of a personal observation than Scientology, but I’ve found that one doesn’t know who his real friends are until the heat is on. I think it’s been said better before.
When you’re hanging over a cliff there will be “friends” who save themselves and get out of there, and there will be one or two friends who are there to pull you up.
OUT,
This also explains why some stay in.
Wow! Thanks Nancy! Do some writing and post it elsewhere. I’d love to video interview you on Mayo’s AAC just for history.
Mayo’s not a factor in independent Scientology, other than as a lesson as what NOT to do, if one’s gonna retain the label as orthodox.
Let me do you one solid
http://www.studytech.org/study_tech3.php
Really Infinity,
I agree with a lot of what you write.
But I think personal attacks against Mike are uncalled for and are not required in a debate.
The fact that Meade was involved with the IRS Task Force against the Church prior to being hired as a consultant could mean anything.
However it does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the IRS controls Scientology as the source of much of this information claims.
That is sc -irs-ology and its predecessor Veritas.
The fact that the diligent team of Veritas are tax protesters and I’m not suggesting that this is good or *bad* like OSA tried to do but it should give one pause to consider a possible slant or pitch in the conclusions from the information which is usually quite good that they have.
I mean suggesting that CST was Meade Emory’s brain child!
Sorry that conclusion does not follow the historical record.
The fact is that Ron had been involved in establishing a separate entity to act as a repository for the tech since the ‘Church of American Science’ going back to the early ’50’s.
Sorry.
Their historical conclusions are as bad as Lil’ squirrels assertions that suicide bombers attacked Pearl Harbor.
It also gives a bunch of “Tax cruds” more good sense and intellect than the Ol’man would ever assign to them.
Sorta like the mental acumen many assign to that moron Miscavige.
True you can underestimate your enemy but you can over estimate them as well by assigning them godlike abilities they don’t really have.
Such as the case of with the IRS or David Miscavige.
Or in this case Meade Emory.
Besides the effort to strip the Church of Scientology of tax exempt status didn’t even originate from the IRS itself but from the State Department.
In other words they were “just following orders”.
So all I see sc-irs-ology doing is following a stale set of crumbs.
The same thing that Jane Kember and her crack team of B1 operatives tried earlier and failed.
Failure would be putting it mildly if the phenomenon of the Missed Withhold means anything they got close while missing the withhold entirely!
Something that the good people at sc-irs-ology continue to do which is probably why you don’t get such a glowing reception from Mike or anyone else.
Really instead of attacking Mike.
I suggest you do more research on the whole scene.
One thing for sure is that the IRS did give Miscavige undeserved prestige and power that he didn’t really deserve.
But whether they did this intentionally is a matter of debate.
And besides.
That whole incident is late on the chain.
The IRS in my opinion is nothing but a false flag or a stalking horse which became a tethered goat as far as the GO was concerned.
When you look at it this is exactly same creation myth or cosmology that Miscavige presented while on stage in ’93.
That the IRS was the source of *all* of our difficulties and now like St. George he finally slew them.
Rejoice rejoice…..whatever…victory is ours…sure.
Which is exactly how I felt when I heard that “Earth shattering” announcement and still feel that way now.
So I don’t blame Mike for putting you on hold when you told him the same story he’s probably read a thousand times when he was with OSA.
I wouldn’t say that Meade Emory’s Santa Clause but he certainly isn’t Ernst Blofeld.
Sorry my bad
http://www.mediafire.com/?emzuzzlkdgm#1
“What I think perhaps I am failing to communicate is that in essence Mayo was doing in 83 what Miscavige is doing now. Setting himself up as source of Scientology.”
Nonsense. Mayo was not interested in being ‘source’. Mayo was never himself interested in holding ‘power’ or collecting acolytes as Ron & others of Ron’s acolytes have been and remain.
Mayo’s only interest was in helping others through the delivery of tech. He did not seek to create a powerbase. He merely opened his doors offering assistance to others and found himself flooded with those who were disaffected with the church and the Sea Org. For this act of independence he was attacked by the church with a full fury at Ron’s explicit orders. At that time the church was especially eager to quell independent practice of scientology within the u.s.. The fight over the AAC’s was to be the ‘main bout’.
Given the nature of intellectual property laws in this country Mayo had to establish a legal basis for his possessing and using those parts of the tech which were not readily & widely available publicly AT THAT TIME. Now, anyone with internet access can readily obtain any ‘confidential materials’ he may wish. That was not so then.
Mayo’s participation in and co-development of the NOTS materials were a significant LEGAL ARGUMENT that could be made to counter the church’s attempts to deny him (and by extension others) the right to use such materials without Co$ approval. Ultimately the court found that, whereas Mayo had written the NOTS materials, he had done so while in the employ of the Co$ and as such an organ of the church held the legal copyrights.
This unfortunate outcome had a chilling effect on the independent practice of scientology in the u.s.. Europe was a different matter. Although, the church was able to harass the independent field in the u.s. into quiescence, european laws have allowed much more leeway for independents to practice relatively free from church harassment. Hence, whatever one’s personal view of the Ron’s Orgs, this accounts greatly for the relative degree of their growth & impact in Europe over time, especially in contrast to what has transpired in the u.s..
So the genuine source of suppression for independent scientology in the u.s. for nearly the last thirty years was in fact the Sea Org minions of L. Ron Hubbard, acting directly on his orders to impede & prevent the growth & practice of scientology independently of the Church & Sea Org.
As to David Mayo coming out of retirement to defend himself. it should be born in mind that David is now fairly advanced in years. I, for one, would be delighted to see him return to public engagement. However David, never having been one who sought power or notoriety for himself, has very little real motivation to trouble himself further by reappearing on boards such as this to counter slanderous remarks. Especially as some few among the individuals who challenge him to do so in the present are among those who bear the shame and the burden of responsibility for many of the evils he endured so many years ago.
and betrayal
(in response to “Talk about wrong target”, i.e. Mayo going after LRH)
Ingrid … AMEN. There are few words more sacred than “Friend”, and it is a verb.
FWIW I agree with you 100% on this BFN. I got completely sick of making a datum true on course “because it is LRH” when I just didn’t agree with it. The idea that it’s true only if you’ve observed it yourself IS the senior concept I believe. And although LRH said so himself in How to Study Scientology, KSW1 seems to contradict this idea. I still dunno.
Thanks for answering my question Sinar.
I can see that he was being “held hostage” to an extent by MAC I/C’s or as I like to call it MAFU I/C’s total utter and complete incompetence at actually getting a product.
But to say that he was a *victim* of all of this I feel is libel and slander.
As I can’t imagine the Ol’man being a victim of anything or being the effect of the lil’ retard.
Sorry I don’t buy that line.
Besides in the time he was waiting for the “All Clear” he still managed to accomplish quite a lot.
As I noted earlier.
Plus personally pilot the CCRD.
True the Ol’man probably would have been a dynamo if he had gotten back to Int Base and found out how badly not just Dave but the “clean team” as he called them had screwed the pooch and I imagine he would have had a few choice words to say about the Franchise Fiasco and the Corporate Screw Up plus he would have seen that many of the cheery Stats reported to him that he based RJ 38 on was nothing but inflated *PR*.
I’m sure “bypass and handle” would have been part of the actions he would take.
But anyway that is purely speculative.
The fact is the legal scene didn’t just arise with the advent of Dastardly Dave though he does play a key villain in the piece but had been going on since the ’50’s.
The GO weren’t totally responsible for it either.
All they did was exacerbate it with all their cloak and dagger moves in violation of Snow White.
The objective was and always has been to seize Scientology and destroy it.
Something they have been able to accomplish with their in my opinion unwitting agent of influence David Miscavige.
Which is why I wouldn’t assign him all the cred for what he’s managed to accomplish.
In other words it took more than one brain dead high school drop out to achieve the coup that was achieved.
That’s all I’m saying.
Anyway aside from that and despite all the CI the Ol’man was still able to accomplish quite a lot and personally I’m against him being remember as a victim that was supposedly fooled from some mindless twirp who couldn’t even make it through high school or through the Class IV internship.
Maybe it’s just me Sinar.
http://bloggingheads.tv/
I like one on one blogtv like this above site.
Whoever wrote it did a pretty good job duplicating LRH’s basic writing style, I thought.
Consistency:
I watch the articles Marty posts and the limited number of disagreements/doubts that wash in on the comments.
I must say, I observe Marty’s consistent pattern to be one of taking great care to post things he can substantiate time and again.
Many who attempt to find fault observably keep on comin’ back to learn more.
They ultimately end up playing nice and learning new things.
This tells me clearly that this blog is a place for those who continuously seek truth.
The same can be said regarding Mike Rinder’s posts.
These guys don’t owe any of us a blessed thing.
I’m very appreciative that this blog continues to give me cogs.
We’ll probably all know eachother in a thousand years so let’s keep the light of truth coming for all our sake.
If this blog weren’t about getting to truth and thus blowing confusion from false data, DM wouldn’t be furiously trying to find some way…ANY way, to stop it.
My two cents.
WH,
(Don’t have your mail but THANKS for the thing, with the package and all that. If I’m up in Cape Breton during those months (my prime fishing months!), we will hopefully meet, and have the wonderful lunch they serve out on that beautiful spot in Pleasant Bay. )
RJ — Santa Claus is a jolly old fellow who apparently has magical powers, though nobody has ever seen him (only mock-ups). He is thought to be all-knowing and all-seeing by a certain percentage of the population (they eventually learn the truth and then feel a little cheated). I thought the analogy was perfect for Meade. Larry and possibly Marty are probably the only people out of the Church that know him. I doubt they would find much wrong with the analogy. That Meade has attained near mythic status for something he has probably forgotten his name was even on would likely be a subject of considerable amusement for him.
Marty & Mike,
Thanks for the data on the lawsuits on LRH and settlement of which was something I was not aware happened.
One thing that bothered me from that period of time is the misapplication of the running program or Cause resurgence rundown as it has become. LRH came up with that rundown in order to handle certain aspects of the case to bring a person more to cause – which all of LRH tech is supposed to do.
In the application of making people who got busted or are in trouble to run in the heat- not physically in ruds, not willing to do the rundown on their own determinism; seems to be out Tech and I suspect that it was not LRH who ordered it. For one thing, it seems like an application of Ethics/Justice or a punishment, instead of getting an LRH rundown to help oneself. One doesn’t apply tech to an out ethics situation per policy.
The guys in charge – Pat and DM created this out tech and the mechanism of: mess up or downstat = go on running program which is a complete Tech degrade.
My two centavos…
Now, as there is profit to be had, there are facilities to be put in at the Mecca in order to deliver this rundown!
@Nomnom: why not ask Serge Gerbode about it, first ? He may never have even heard that tale – or claim not to have.
Michael A. Hobson
I think the diagrams at this site …
http://savescientology.com/
… do a better job showing/illustrating the corporate structure, and intentions behind the Bylaws and Articles … and how they compare to what is going on today.
The site keeps it simple, but also allows one to dive into the details and underlying documents, as necessary and/or desired.
You are attacking me for not doing precisely what this blog does. You are not listening and are becoming abusive.
Thanks Ralph for adding a perspective I did not know too much about.
how many of us had had to sit through an ethics interview where the EO or MAA insists that you are in lower conditions and must do more things or what they think is acceptable to handle the lower conditions (usually donating books and money)? It’s the same concept.
Marty,
Thank you for reiterating where you stand on the subject of Standard Tech. I agree completely.
Once again I submit:
“If it isn’t in an HCOB or an HCO PL or recorded on a tape in my voice, it isn’t tech or policy.” –LRH
Great observation Mike.
In my opinion how did David Miscavige “take over the church”? He simply put HIS name and not anyone else’s on all the ownership rights to L. Ron Hubbard’s works. It would LEGALLY require a legal team to get rid of him, not just disconcert about him inside the church. So, for the time being if none of us really get along all that well with DM then how did we become OT? {LOL} So, moving on up a little higher…
why are we bringing Santa Claus into this.. leave the jolly old guy alone. 🙂 LOL
Baker,
As usual you are full-a-shit.
The order to *counter* attack the AAC who were already sending in operatives to infiltrate PAC was given by RTC not by LRH.
I was there when we received our orders and info packs through *RTC * which contained historical information on how to handle squirrels including the LRHED Squirrels.
We had EST, Amprinistics, E-Therapy and even the CADA (contrary to RTC’s glowing report to Ron about shutting them down) operating in the area yet we never touched them as part of the project.
Our objective was to take out the AAC because they had initiated the attack on us.
Now you can go on being self righteous Baker with these pointless bloviations of yours but I was there and I saw the original orders and telexes and none of them were written by Ron.
He wasn’t even on those lines.
The way I look at it is this. As a creative person, I’m not tolerant at all of people not respecting creators.
I allow myself to consider there are other technologies or developments possible, and am willing to look at anything —however, I simply have not found anything that works as well as the procedures and body of work developed by L Ron Hubbard, which he calls Scientology. I know what it is, and I know why it works.
I can fully implement the technology of Scientology without it making any “less” of me to fully respect and admire the source of it, the work, research and life that went into it.
As compassionate, pan-determined and understanding as I endeavor to be, I nevertheless don’t tolerate anyone using the gift/life work of any other individual while simultaneously turning or attacking the person. In the case of people who have done so with Hubbard, it raises my hackles — set aside “belief”, “dogma”, “religion” — it is simply not good form in any arena to BITE the hand that feeds one, to not acknowledge credit where it is do. If the metaphor were working on a movie set — and people were working in lights, or acting roles — but snarling about the WRITER (creator) — I wold say “Go write your own damn movie.” If one is on board, one is on board.
Another parallel metaphor — if someone comes on board a TV series that someone else created — do not bash the creator while writing an episode. Go write your own damn series and show.
It would not make less a writer to come on board a TV series and totally bring 100% creativity while respecting the “bible” (technical TV term of continuity set by show’s creator). Only those with self-important buttons, who aren’t important already in their own sense of creation, need to chop down the show’s creator while working on the show. A real power knows how to serve another power’s vision. A real power can create their own game or not. But it is just bad form to work on a show and bash the creator.
As for LRH, he loved auditors and he did not want robots.
With protocols, it’s not a matter of doing it “my way” or “your way”. You either do the protocol and understand its axioms (physics, woof and warp, so to speak) or don’t.
I can deliver a Scientology session and blow a person’s socks off. I know who developed the technology. I know why the results. I don’t mess with what works. And it makes no less of the wonder I am in application and living understanding and theta.
If one is following a PROTOCOL, and Scientology is a protocol, then this act alone requires that the protocol be applied. I personally apply it for a reason — I respect and understand why of every aspect I apply.
The body of work of Scientology has amazing integrity. As such, “interjecting” tid bits only creates drag.
That is not to say I haven’t found “truth” and wisdom n other applications. I know why they work. And personally, I simply find Scientology to be cool beans due to tried and tested efficacy.
Perhaps a line of blurring is this: There are truths in Scientology which Hubbard did not create. But the truth within the subject is not the subject itself. Truths are universal. Many truths can be arrived at via various means, and life itself is a process (which, if I recall right, LRH wrote and I personally have observed it so). If one lives with courage and a desire to evolve, truth and growth is a result.
I cannot cite the reference, but recall somewhere hearing a lecture where Hubbard says there is Scientology, then there is what he, as a person, thinks about it, and they are two distinctly different things. Personally, I understood this to mean that he approached the subject as a scientist: He went in and tested and observed to find repeatable results. I admire that discipline and distinction.
Returning to the possible “blurred” area — it is possibly used s a justification to “mix n’ match’ protocols that, hey, truth is universal. Yes, truth is universal! But the protocol is not.
Like any science, it is preceded by pioneers and years of thinking individuals. L Ron Hubbard acknowledges them. From Science of Survival:
Among whom Hubbard lists Plato, Thomas Jefferson, Euclid, Roger Bacon, Sigmund Freud, instructors in molecular physics and others.
Prior research (standing on the shoulders of giants) in any science never diminishes the researcher and inventor of a new protocol.
So, either use the protocol or don’t. If you’re mixing it up, do not call it the protocol.
Aside from my objective respect and admiration for Hubbard as a researcher and creator of a vast body of cohesive work and technology, I also understand the nature of that work. The reason LRH has inspired admiration and friendship in so many is that Scientology is a tool to quickly, effectively target and relieve spiritual/emotional suffering. That is nothing short of handing a person’s life back.
He wanted the world to have it and use it. I don’t give a damn that Hubbard was a human being. Our shortcomings and our cases do not make less of the total shining wonders we are — as far as I’m concerned, personal flaws make it even more laudable when individuals shine forth to produce a gift to Life, in family, science, art, sports, whatever arena.
I hope this is not too long, and I wish I could’ve taken more time but hope the communication is adequate. Here’s to communication.
Brilliant.
Well RJ, I saw goading and silly comments by Mike and called him out on it. If you ask me, this santa claus goading and mockery is the exact kind of immature trollish communication that makes the church AND scientology look totally stupid, unauthentic and fake. And he was doing it in front of millions of people on national media coverage as a spokesperson for the church for many years.
^^^^ True story
I never said the IRS controls the church. It is clearly miscavige (at least in “real-time”). However, mary sue and the GO was a major obstacle for the latter obtainment of control for miscavige, and this meade emory character is highly, highly suspicious seeing as he was there trying to audit the church in 1971, was assistant to the commissioner of the IRS during a very important time for the GO, and wait…
…there again as a figure in the founding of CST.
Im not in agreement with every conclusion on the sites i linked to regarding this subject, but was simply showing some information and docs that show meade emorys’s involvement during a critical part of church history, as an enemy group of the church (the IRS) and as part of corporate scientology (CST).
I wouldn’t underestimate tax cruds like meade, he was at the top of his game (published articles on the subject and was at the top of the IRS as assistant to the commissioner), and would know how to stitch up an organization using legal and tax means. He probably was acting on someone elses orders (see RJ67) but was still an SP doing the work within his professional capacity.
Here’s the relevant excerpt from rj 67. Remember these were the guys LRH considered the major SPs on the planet and the ones attacking scientology and how they wielded their power…money.
“Our enemies on this planet are less than 12 men. They are members of the Bank of England and other higher financial circles. They own and control newspaper chains and they are oddly enough directors in all the Mental Health groups in the world which have sprung up. Now these chaps are very interesting fellows. They have fantastically corrupt backgrounds, illegitimate children, government graft, a very unsavoury lot. And they apparently some time in the rather distant past had determined upon a course of action. Being in control of most of the gold supplies of the planet they entered upon a program of bringing every government to bankruptcy and under their thumb, so that no government would be able to act politically without their permission. …
Anyway, these fellows have gotten nearly every government in the world to owe them considerable quantities of money through various chicaneries. And they control, of course, income tax, government finance…. Wilson for instance, the current Premier of England, is totally involved with these fellows and talks about nothing else actually.
They organized these mental health groups which sprang up simultaneously all over the world and anything that has mental health in it, in its name, or mental hygiene, or other things of that character, such names as that are all part of the organization which stems from these, less than a dozen really, men.”
Meade Emory an innocent and inconsequential person…hmmmmmmm. Should we look at him as a non-existent mythical figure as Mike is suggesting we should? IMO Mike needs to write a very detailed report of what he knows about this subject, so we can see in *exact detail* what he knows, rather than the make-nothing-of brief comments he has provided so far.
—
Regading Miscavige’s use of tax exemption, lets face it the church was pretty much neutralized by then anyway so the IRS probably let it happen (and by IRS I mean more exactly the people they are controlled by as described by LRH in RJ67) because they saw no threat from the church as a movement anymore. And of course Miscavige used tax exempt status to make himself into a demi-god to his followers and this was how he gained the trust from the church members that lead to him getting away with GAT and everything after…
You’ve echoed my own thoughts on this precisely. The starting point is to fully duplicate the technology of auditing and the nature of the thetan as Ron has left it for us. After that… its a new show. If we can avoid individual and group ser facs we just might be able to do it.
veritas,
It’s not too long. It’s just right. The real deal.
Infinity said:
“Mike needs to write a very detailed report of what he knows about this subject, so we can see in *exact detail* what he knows, rather than the make-nothing-of brief comments he has provided so far.”
Well, I would hazard a guess I am further along the path of disclosure than you are. How about you start with your name and a report about yourself and what you know with *exact detail* so we can see whether your arrogant assertions have any place on this blog?
I said Meade Emory was like Santa Claus and explained why I used the analogy. You’ve done nothing other than clutter up this blog with your lengthy assertions and name-calling.
At least have the courage to use your own name.
Veritas- You write so eloquently and more importantly truthfully.
I have nothing against what the new indipendents and this blog are doing, but I disagree and don’t like that you are so eager to go against David Mayo. You are turning the story upside down. It was the C of S (apparently with LRH behind) that went against David Mayo, non the opposite. He was just defending himself. I can tell you that going out of the C of S it takes a process. All of us who went out in the early 80s went through a process that involved many gradients and the same will happen to you. If you are interested I can explain to you the steps that are waiting for you in the future, but you will live all of those by yourself. Meanwhile, you should forget the 80s boys. I suggest you that maybe you have some BPC for your loss of integrity having been part of a suppressive cult for all these almost 30 years. Also before the 80s and in all the history of SCN there were big SCN characters declared or blown and we met some of them or we read their stories (John McMaster, Oto Roos, etc.) but we never commented much on them. We just read their stories. We didn.t go in these mechanics of right and wrong.
Veritas,
Fantastic summation of the process a creative individual goes through in formulating a new methodology to be applied for the purpose of achieving a new paradigm in any field of endeavor.
That LRH chose to address the field of life itself and all of it’s various interactions does not diminish in any way the seminal ideas postulated by the great individual thinkers that preceded him. The achievements of many provided the foundation upon which LRH built the workable technology that is Scientology. LRH’s particular genius was in codifying and refining existing methodologies into a comprehensive system. He also made several heretofore unrevealed research discoveries of his own that were essential to the success and workability of his new system.
Thank you for reminding us of that fact in such an eloquent fashion.
L, Scott
“Well, I would hazard a guess I am further along the path of disclosure than you are. How about you start with your name and a report about yourself and what you know with *exact detail* so we can see whether your arrogant assertions have any place on this blog?”
Mike, your accusation of me giving arrogant assertions is very hypocritical. You’ve given very little information of your own on this subject other than assertions and trollish goading.
I have linked to documents, and given a relevant LRH excerpt for what I am suggesting happened with meade emory, mary sue, the go, cst, rtc, david miscavige, the major SPs on this planet…
You have given nothing other than a “Oh I was there and it didn’t go down like that”….but no real details to back it up. Which is why Im asking you provide the details in an exact manner.
Of course you can always dodge the request and put the attention on me as a misdirector, but I would rather you focus on the subject at hand.
@Mike Hobson: A bit more searching finds the following post by Gerbode to Homer on alt.clearing.technology (short version=Miscavige sanctioned altered materials),
“I’ve been reading and enjoying your postings for some months now, but have been reluctant to post anything, because I was heavily engaged in settlement talks with TOS (“The Old School”, my term for the C of S), and I didn’t want to complicate matters. But after many hours of personal discussions with David Miscavige and more hours of discussions with their lawyers and paralegals, much of which contained a fair amount of *sturm und drang*, I finally, as of 3Jun94, reached a mutually satisfactory settlement agreement with TOS, on behalf of myself, the Institute for Research in Metapsychology (IRM) and the Center for Applied Metapsychology (CAM). As is the case with
most or all TOS settlements, the terms of the settlement are confidential.”
more on Google…
Mike,
I never heard of the guy until I read the sc-irs-ology website and maybe he has reached mythic proportions but still we shouldn’t be so dismissive.
What’s wrong with a cheery ack and moving on?
I mean I myself should practice what I preach.
But we all have different viewpoints on the whole scene and we are an extent running a group engram here and there are times that some of it may be just “dub in” and yet then again it could be valid.
Besides I don’t think Santa Clause is quiiiiite the correct analogy.
Probably the Kraken might be more appropiate for the way the sc-irs-ology crowd view him.
(I can just see Nixon saying “Release the Kraken!!!!” 🙂 )
Infinity,
As you can see from the quote from RJ-67 Ron doesn’t even give the IRS an honorable or even a dishonorable mention.
So much for Jane/Dave/Veritas (Randy McDonald)/sc-irs-ology’s (friends of Randy) conspiracy theory about the IRS octopus.
Ron hardly mentions these guys in any GO Dir that I’ve ever read.
In other words the IRS isn’t even a major player thus ipso facto Meade Emory’s importance has been altered beyond all recognition.
Wouldn’t you say this is an outpoint?
So why get so bent out of shape when Mike basically says so?
Why not just move on?
I mean in this case there is really nothing here to see folks.
Why forward Miscavige’s delusion that it was the evil forces of the IRS that caused so much trouble for Scientology.
Actually when I look back we were a whole lot better off before this so called “victory”.
As you say it was probably granted after the forces that Ron mentions in RJ 67 thought Scientology was no longer a threat to their plans for world domination.
That seems likely to me as well.
So why belabor this IRS conspiracy theory?
And why beat up poor Mike because he actually agrees with you?
By dredging up his past.
He didn’t dismiss what Ron said in RJ 67 he dismissed Emory as any major actor in this drama.
I dismiss him too.
You should dismiss him as well and as I said do your own independent research on the whole scene.
That said I’d like to quote Rodney King at this point and say:
“Can we all just get along” 🙂
seriously…
#1
Tony, I am not being flippant here. Try this and see if it works for you.
Get some clay and clay demo the axioms and the factors.
I did it. Never been so exterior. Completely changed my viewpoint on evaluation of importances.
I personally believe the data is all here, already published. We just need to work diligently to fully duplicate it and apply it for the benefit of others.
Bravo Veritas!!!!
Chuck, I think the Santa Barbara group was delivering to a hell of a lot of people at one time and was actually a serious threat back then, just like Marty is a serious threat today (though Marty and Mike have a lot more of the legal and PR data than Mayo had, so they are not really tech threats as such). That is why DM went after him so hard.
Sinar, Yeah, speaking of which, Broeker seems to be the shadow character in all this. DM once told me that he and Pat were in Las Vegas and DM approached Pat at a bar, who turned and shooed him away saying that he was “doing research.” DM, of course, used to do similar research after hours with Tom Devocht as Devo reported once. Wonder what the hell ever happened to Pat and if DM paid him to go away or if he is still behind the scenes somewhere.
I cannot figure out, how or why a LRH trained Class 12 auditor (Mayo) was so extremely erring??????
@Infinity:
The IRS performs audits of tax returns to determine whether some individual or organization is cheating on their taxes, according to the existing tax laws.
If you are going to dub in an evil intention behind them performing their congressionally mandated duty, I certainly can’t stop you from doing that.
However, *evidence* of such an intent would be documents of some sort (letters, memos) authored by IRS employees which contain statements to that effect, and you have presented none so far, amigo. The two web pages you linked consist almost entirely of opinions and undocumented asserted facts by author(s) of that web site and the only supporting *documents* quoted therein don’t mention Meade Emory at all!!!
When all the bullshit is filtered from those pages, all you have two instances of reports by an Agent Cullerton that he wasn’t able to perform audits because CSC wouldn’t let him examine the financial records necessary to do so!
The SC-IRS-OLOGY author(s) are WRONG SOURCE for the intentions of the IRS or IRS agents.
You still have failed to *document* your claim that the IRS was trying to “bankrupt” Scientology.
Michael A. Hobson
Sinar,
I worked on the RP pilot in LA and it wasn’t anything like what they were doing at the Int Base.
What they were doing was totally FUBAR and completely SQUIRREL!!!!!
Someday.
Is he? And are you surprised after your statements about how bad Mayo is because he was defeated by Misc and how you were all innocent because you were so young and in your position?
I wasn’t there at the time but according to what I read on Internet, Misc taking all the power was achieved by terrorist’s means. So hold in against the defeated is a little unjust, I’d say. And in the Way to Happiness LRH says that if such a man gets to power, the least you can do is to refuse to cooperate with such a guy.
I entered SO in my 24, was just in a TU, but a few months were enough to me to see that SO is a dead end. It took you some 20 years to similar realization and only because everybody was beating everybody around you.
So DM and CBR probably saw no other means that to go out and make things go right from outside. Yes, they made a lot of errors, I’m sure. At the times you worked for a corrupt regime without seeing it.
Mark is very right that it was Anonymous and internet who started to make things go right. Then you got your chance in St Pet Times and together with Mike and others made a very effective blow to the enemy and I will always think high of THAT.
But that doesn’t mean you can take credit for everything and made wrong guys who were in a similar position almost 30 years ago to yours now, but without the chances you got (internet), and expect that no one will say anything. I believe that implying that anyone who challenge you like that is a squirrel is very comfortable to you, but I don’t think it’s true.
Well Martin,
If you think that what is actually entitled ‘How To Study Dianetics’ and KSW conflict then I suggest you read them again.
Chuck, by the way, Ray wrote C/S Series 115. As I recall, LRH approved it but it is obviously not LRH’s writing style. None of us would have dared try to imitate that voice. In my naivete as a brand new compiler I tried once and LRH reassigned the issue to a PR to write. It was on TRs and never saw the light of day but is basically covered in the tech film The Different TR Courses and Their Criticism.
GH,
I’m basing what I wrote on Omar Garrison’s book ‘Playing Dirty’.
As far as I understand they demanded that the QM open the main door to the Horse Shoe before knocking it down and at least had the decency to allow him to open the door before trashing the place.
If you say that account is inaccurate than I’ll take your word for it since you were there.
Sinar, Absolutely. I have heard that DM used to come down and rag on people who were running, including Mayo. And who can forget the story of all of CMO Int and Exec Strata running around the pole in their uniforms until the had cognitions about how they were suppressing Scientology?
Infinity.
I was surprised, too, to see Meade Emory’s name as part of the CST corp. reorganization, since as you pointed out, he was involved in the effort to audit the church circa 1971. However, he was not the “who” within the IRS, and it makes sense to me that he would have been a useful person to be brought in as an advisor. Larry Brennan has detailed how he supervised the creation of the new structure, and I accept that. Larry Brennan, before being in charge of that unit, held significant posts in GO Legal.
I empathize with what you say about the GO and knocking out Mary Sue and such. It is also my conclusion that Miscavige had the GO and MSH in his sights as obstacles to smash and dead-agent early in his career. (I’ve long wondered if could it be that Miscavige just couldn’t bear the fact that at a joint GO/CMO function around 1980-81 the GO team beat the pants off the CMO team in a heated game of softball at Will Rogers park in LA. Seems like the kind of grudge he would hang onto).
The truth is that the errors made by GO execs both pre-raid and post-raid weakened it immensely. A couple of things come to mind: first, carelessness and haste in information gathering that led to the raid; second, myopic self-interest trumping the decision-making in handling the B1 goofs and the raid. IMO, all concerned parties (including Meisner) should have resigned from the church and confessed at a personal level the moment things went bad. Whistleblowing and exposing government files was somewhat fashionable then; consequences at a personal level would have been minor. When the whole Scn field was brought into the defense of the GO individuals with fund-raising events for legal fees, etc., it was massive dev-T in terms of the goals of Scientology. The GO’s integrity was compromised, and all became vulnerable. However, it’s all history now, and Meade Emory must be very elderly if still living.
I appreciate some of the things you have said, but I don’t see any reason to get stuck on the point re Meade Emory. He was a bureaucrat. He was not the Who.
The original push to get the IRS to pursue Scientology and LRH came via the DC Medical Society Psychiatric Committee which was hostile very early on.
Beyond the IRS there were a lot of other things at play, as pointed out broadly in RJ 67. Today the USA is swimming in debt, with confidence in its currency eroding precipitously. How prophetic RJ 67 was – now that I reconsider it in present time. With that and possible major earth changes imminent. Yikes! Nothing like living in interesting times.
These old stories – Meade Emory and all – are much water under the bridge now. What I want today is very simple: Keeping Scientology Working and Ron’s legacy broadly and freely available to present and future generations. We need the openness of this and other blogs to run the 3rd dynamic engrams. I do think we need civility, too, – even when the discourse is contentious.
Leonore
PS. RJ – what the heck do you mean “State Dept.?” That’s quite late in the game, but I’d like to hear your thread nonetheless.
“What was Gerbode’s motivation? Easy to see. Become the preeminent Metapsychology USING LRH’s tech and philosophy WHILE making it appear as his own.”
Hadn’t Scientology turned into a cult, I doubt Metapsychology would exist.
I think Gerbode’s motivation was to take what he found useful of Scientology and make it available in a more scientific environment, and drop the cultish part of it and the copyrights that gave to Miscavige the monopoly.
I think he even got Co$ blessing by a settlement from Co$; he would not use the ‘Scientology’ word and Co$ ceased to harass him for using the tech.
An honest and detailed debrief of all the actions (and dirty actions) Co$ used to smash “squirrels” who dared to use the Tech out of LRH and Miscavige’s control would be very interesting to have by Marty and Mike.
OMG!
OMG!!!!!
Bawaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahah!!!!!!!
Thanks OTDT I needed that 🙂
“Among whom Hubbard lists Plato, Thomas Jefferson, Euclid, Roger Bacon, Sigmund Freud, instructors in molecular physics and others.”
http://www.dianeticstampa.org/faq.html
“Q: Is Dianetics All Based On One Man’s Work?
Although Dianetics technology was discovered by L. Ron Hubbard, he wrote: “Acknowledgment is made to fifty thousand years of thinking men without whose speculations and observations the creation and construction of Dianetics would not have been possible. Credit in particular is due to: Anaxagoras, Thomas Paine, Aristotle, Thomas Jefferson, Socrates, René Descartes, Plato, James Clerk Maxwell, Euclid, Charcot, Lucretius, Herbert Spencer, Roger Bacon, William James, Francis Bacon, Sigmund Freud, Isaac Newton, van Leeuwenhoek, Cmdr. Joseph Thompson (MC) USN, William A. White, Voltaire, Will Durant, Count Alfred Korzybski, and my instructors in atomic and molecular phenomena, mathematics and the humanities at George Washington University and at Princeton.”
Even WWP knows it’s false.
Jesse Prince should kick your hiney
You could frame that one and hang it on the wall.
CD,
You should do Self Analysis.
lucy,
If those EO’s or MAA’s had had a Sup that knew and applied LRH material, you wouldn’t have had that kind of bullshit. That’s the whole friggin’ point I’m making.
The CofM DOESN’T apply Scientology. It ISN’T Scientology – it’s a Suppressive Group. David Miscavige IS an SP.
Sinar,
You’re absolutely right, using the Running Pgm as punishment is a Tech Degrade.
DM did that to me in the summer of 92. Despite it, and on my own determinism, I did it and won. It was 120 degrees that summer, for a week. I ran. I gained.
SW,
Maybe the issue THE NATURE OF A BEING can give you some insight. It took a long time to end up in this condition on this planet. It takes a bit of work to get that worked out. Sitting around figuring on it is wasting time. Get trained, co-audit, move up. You’ll know how come and be able to do something for the guy to resolve what he ran into.
Nevrtheless, Marty, you have my admiration that you approve comments like Mark’s or mine to appear in the discussion.
A far more than adequate communication at this time … spirit of life stuff. Thanks! H
Veritas, this essay is like an instant Doubt formula,when I read it I KNOW which group I belong in.
This is what I came looking for in the first place. Its also why I stayed even though I constantly struggled to reconcile the scism between what LRH was saying and what I was seeing and experiencing.
After more than 200 comments of interesting but seemingly endless to’ing and fro’ing, an injection of such sanity, clarity, tolerance and wisdom really clears the air.
Thanks for being a light house!
Justin
V is a lighthouse, ain’t she?
I love your acks.
Cindy,
Your remark: “I had enough squirrel auditing in the church; I don’t need more outside the church.” is very important.
Herein lies the importance of the co-audit: how DOES one know if they are getting the straight stuff? I mean, how does a DMSHM reader know? There is a great deal of trust laid down when one firsts goes into the HGC.
If one sits down and reads the HCOBs, listens to the LRH lectures, etc. that pertain to the processes one is to co-audit, one would know if her/his twin was screwing up or running some crap in on himself/herself. But of course, there would have to be co-audit checksheets and co-audit supers, etc. Something that has not existed in 25 years in the church.
On the lower Bridge this would work well, and if one really did it per KSW 1, and truly had the dedicated clare, one would know what was what at the OT levels. More could be said, but to make it brief, the lack of real training is what has stopped the progress we all desire.
In the end, I feel that co-audits will save the Tech.
I understand Jesse was angry but I don’t see any motivation for him to lie. I have heard it from two other sources, one of which I believe to be credible, the other one I am suspect of. Jesse is the only staff member. I wish to thank everyone for their comments. It does help.
Wow! So true, so true.
FF,
“Now that you’ve done your selection, what’s next? The gas chamber?”
I’m sorry but I don’t see the connection between what I said and what you said. There are shades of grey between black and white FF. BUT to answer your question – nooooooo! It doesn’t mean that the theetie wheeties can’t be sweeties. Being nice and granting beingness is vital to living happily. The definition of that doesn’t include “and so trust everyone”. I’m saying that from my observations over decades of living that the “grant more beingness and the Aims of Scn will be achieved group” will be the first to throw their “friends” under the bus and why not it’s so easily justified, “I’m just keeping the ARC in with external pressure”. There’s a difference. These kinds of conclusions CAN be outgrowths of ser facs, computations or ev purps and so can they be actually logically derived conclusions with the benefits of having studied the data series and having had experience with LRH’s HC pluspoint/outpoint lists.
And the point you made here “However, by some of the logic being applied here, Marty could to some degree be lumped in the same camp as Mayo.”
ok, I’ll indulge here but only to hear myself talk…
Marty – blowing the whistle 18 months after saying “No more”
Mayo – (cricket, cricket)
Marty – not taking the payoff
Mayo – money talked mayo walked
Marty – sticking his neck out FOR preservation of LRH’s tech (data about Mayo turning on LRH has been validated and substantiated by others on the blog. I believe what they’re saying, do you? and if not why not?)
Mayo – attacked LRH, he tried to take ownership for something he didn’t own, he tried to be source of something he wasn’t source of – what beingness shall we grant Mayo? I’ll forever defend his RIGHT to tell his own story. I believe Marty would welcome that and afford him that opportunity. So far though in the nearly two years on the blog he has yet to make himself known. I mean really if he really got it back in the day, wouldn’t he have had enough time to destim by now?? If he WAS just trying to force the church’s hand to get LRH out from under clutches of the up and coming “cobb” he’s had such opportunity to make that story known to us – yet there’s silence.
His fall from this high place was obviously not easy. I’m sorry that being had any lasting pain from all of this if he did but if Mayo was truly able to be lumped in the same camp as Marty – he’d be here making himself known, filling in the vacuum, helping to run out the group engram that occurred with him as a main character BUT WAIT – he isn’t…this fact is at the core of why they cannot possibly be lumped in the same camp.
I’m not setting up any firing lines I’m just saying what I’ve found to be true. Where the rubber meets the road is being tended to properly, blow outs at 100mph are a bitch man and it shouldn’t happen too many times before you evaluate it, learn from it and do your best to see it doesn’t happen again.
ARC, TroubleShooter
Sam – of course you are and good on ya. 😉
RJ, They did open the front door to the reception area, but then the FBI chain sawed open inside doors when staffers couldn’t get the keys fast enough. After the raid, I saw a stack of doors that had been chain sawed that had to be replaced. These are the old solid wood doors that the Complex had. It was shocking.
Veritas,
Kindred souls. Long long ago. Paths diverged. Good to see you once more.
Scott, I found this. It doesn’t say “treason”, but it’s close. From 1991 OEC Vol 1, Pg 68, HCOPL 12 March 71, I, “PUTTING AN HCO THERE HOW TO ESTABLISH A DIVISION”:
THOROUGHNESS
The thoroughness with which this is done and MAKING SURE IT IS ALL DONE IN THAT ORDER ON ANY NEW PERSONNEL will give you a division that will stay established.
Unhatted people go bad. That is a continual observation.
Poorly established departments and divisions give continual trouble and tend to unmock.
…
@Andy:
“In the end, I feel that co-audits will save the Tech.”
Too true. Nothing else could.
“The two web pages you linked consist almost entirely of opinions and undocumented asserted facts by author(s) of that web site and the only supporting *documents* quoted therein don’t mention Meade Emory at all!!! ”
Look again michael:
http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.wikiscientology.org/documents/1970-01-01emoryjointtaxcmt.html
@Nomnom:
Good job digging that up.
Hi Leonore,
Thanks for your understanding reply. Sure beats a “do you leave cookies out for santa on christmas eve” trollish comm!
Just a couple of points. Meade Emory died last year:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/seattletimes/obituary.aspx?n=george-meade-emory&pid=145944048
Yes he was a bureaucrat, but one in a very powerful position. Seems he was operating off of orders from higher up (See RJ67). Obviously these comm. lines are very secretive between the top SPs and government types. However when you look at the intentions and *the results* that occured you can see the suppressives clearly at play; a tax audit of the church wanted shortly after RJ67, GO and Mary Sue taken down, leaving Miscavige with no heavy competition to take over and ruin the church.
You can say that Miscavige took over the GO because of a softball game, but for others like me its more real to see whole track games at work here. And it’s obvious that Miscavige needed help to take control of the church from other groups outside the church. These 3rd and 4th dynamic things are a lot more real to some people than others. And whole track history is more real to others, even if only at an intuitive/knowingness level.
Act One. If it’s really, truly in, the rest falls into place.
Mayo dropped his. The Independents (whenever they became so but in accordance with Marty’s distinction above) may have let theirs fall at one or more points, but did not let it lie. They have picked it up and continue to strive to get and keep it in.
Bruce Pratt
“The two web pages you linked consist almost entirely of opinions and undocumented asserted facts by author(s) of that web site and the only supporting *documents* quoted therein don’t mention Meade Emory at all!!! ”
Hi Michael,
Please look at this document clearly showing meade emory’s positions in the IRS with dates:
http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.wikiscientology.org/documents/1970-01-01emoryjointtaxcmt.html
Well, Troubleshooter, all I can say is that if this is how you interpreted what I said, then you should probably re-read it because you have misduplicated me completely.
ok, thanks for the reference.
GH,
Typical gommint work.
It’d be nice to have LRH remembered as voluntarily being secluded but I think he had no choice given the enormous government attacks. He was definitely under heavy and consistent suppression which would explain his failing health.
Government was intend to control him and his technology one way or the other and they did. They couldn’t get to him directly but they got the Dave’s. One was thrown into their hand by an act of fate of which they profited big time. During his stay in a hospital they PDH’d him until the post hypnotic suggestions became his life goal and major ser fac: power is assumed.
They got the other by smart third party manipulations of the first. The huge pressure on LRH was not to get him but to keep him out of the church. Their puppet, Dave 1 would kick Dave 2 so hard and would make the new management (with LRH practically off lines) act so bad that Dave 2 had no other recourse than team up with the government trying to get the horror management out, not unlike us, hoping that the FBI raids the church to end the abuse.
Regime change is the name of the main foreign policy of American government to control the world by replacing democratic governments by puppets that listen to Big Daddy. They provided the best lawyers to get legal ownership of the organizations into the hands of their regularly PDH’d and totally controlled puppet, who, because of the implants done to him, turned the church into an implant station.
They used the power of the IAS to get pharma funding ok’d into incredible heights, ripping the taxpayer into bankruptcy. They used the Tech to siphon huge amounts of $$$$ out of the real economy into tax havens, aiding an economic melt down. They protected Dave’s atrocities legally, financially and politically to prevent anyone from going free, making slaves and assuming more power themselves.
Two years ago they’d almost made it, if not for some unexpected resistance from some unexpected corner.
IMHO
@Jim Logan: far, far, far more than a mere Technical Degrade, it was Black Scientology.
Michael A. Hobson
Actually RJ, I rather agree with Martin on this. No doubt you will suggest that I restudy these as well. It is my observation that this type of comment is used as a particular Scientological put-down – “You don’t agree with me therefore YOU must have gone past something YOU didn’t understand. Read it again!”.
When I first got into Scientology, I liked what I read, for example: “Data is your data only so long as you have evaluated it. It is your data by authority or it is your data. If it is your data by authority, somebody has forced it upon you, and at best it is little more than a light aberration.” And, “Any quarrel you may have with theory is something that only you can resolve. Is the theory correct, or isn’t it correct? Only you can answer that; it cannot be answered for you.“ (‘How to Study Scientology’)
As I continued in the CoS, I found more and more that I didn’t like what I was being TOLD to do.
I believe that KSW1 marked a watershed in the history of Scientology. “I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea.”, “win or die in the attempt”, “we’d rather have you dead than incapable” (often taken literally), “This is a deadly serious activity.” – ring a bell?
Here was Hubbard making it starkly clear – only HE could have discovered the Technology, not one other person in the history of the Universe had ever created a workable piece of Technology, so there was no point in even trying. It was HIS way or suffer eternal damnation.
OK, so I’m over-dramatising a bit, and it might not have been intended to be that way, but it seems to me that this sowed the seeds of what the CoS has become – a totalitarian cult that allows no dissent or free speech.
Axiom142
Ax, don’t be a sheep – see the next post.
Marty, VVWD on getting more and diverse viewpoints in and connecting more dots.
I long ago answered this one to my own satisfaction.
“What’s true for you is true for you” is the senior datum and applies to a viewpoint and beingness. KSW1 is all about a doingness, and a rather exact one at that:
When you practice this subject called Scientology, especially with paying preclears and students, you DO it this way.
Sidewinder, It’s called power of choice. Hubbard was not into making robots, but even Pinocchio, who was carved out of stone, created his own life path;)
Yeah, you guys should get along because I’m learning new viewpoints. If it wasn’t Meade that put Scientology into the hands of a madman through legal corporate powers, it must have been someone else. I’ll never buy that LRH gave it voluntarily to Dave.
..correction: Pinocchio was carved out of WOOD…but point remains as a metaphor: he had a life, he WAS a life, and … power of choice is how we create. Some of the saddest words I ever listened to, and I understood the poignancy of them full well: “Sometimes you don’t know it’s a mistake until you do it.”
But then, isn’t that the whole beauty and point of experience in life, and it’s especially why I personally appreciate and value a way to find the truth of it and come out bigger and better. And it’s also especially why it’s possibly the most heinous thing ever when trust to help people release themsevles is betrayed.
I dearly appreciate and value your conversations and comments.
Looks like orders came from Dave but Baker wouldn’t know and he reports from his vieuwpoint, just like you assuming that Mayo initiated attacks; he left the church, knowing what moron had legally taken over, exactly like us now. Together you should be able to fish out the third party and drop the H, E & R.
Mark,
I have to disagree on a couple of points, From what I saw Mayo intended to keep the stolen NOTs material within the AACs and not make them available to others.
Secondly Able Bodied Seaman (I was tempted to mis-spell) Bill Robertson (demoted after a commev for screwing arond) put a heavy stable datum there in the midst of the confusion and many bought it, psychotic as it was.
The Independent field back in 1984 consisted of beings trying to de-PTS themselves from the CofS being faced with an onslaught of squirrels and heavy attacks from the CofS.
There was Bill with his aliens telepathically implanting anyone not wearing a tin foil hat then there was Rene Mumford with Dianology trying to get everyone running 1000 item GPM lists then there was Neville Chamberlain selling an 8 page write up of OT levels for GBP500 and raking in the cash from selling his excuse for review auditing when people caved in.
The UK Independent Field rapidly was filled by caved in cases.
Also it does need to be said that at that time there were quite a few people who are now Independent who were intent upon our destruction.
As far as I can see it David Mayo was the best choice for Senior C/S Int when LRH chose him – if there were someone better available LRH would have chosen them. I cannot think of a single person on tech lines at Flag who would have been a better choice.
I don’t really want to get into putting down the other possible choices.
AB Bill was probably the worst influence in that he took people who were in the process of dePTSing themselves and recruited them for defending the planet against delusory aliens. LRH said quite clearly in confidential materials that the aliens were long since gone. Bill was still fighting them. C/S series 22 is worthy of detailed study regarding Bill.
Despite the shit Marty has thrown at me I think we are on the same side and have a far better chance of creating a renaissance now than we did back in the early 80s.
And to save another imperative from Marty I am in present time viewing past events not revivifying them.
“Yes, however I think I need to restate that the AAC mission that stole the packs was comprised of AAC people in close communication with David Mayo.
They wished to keep that tech closely under wraps within their control. The photocopying of the packs and their distribution was not in any way a humanitarian work of any involved in the AACs ”
Wrong, wrong, wrong!! The three who took the packs were Robin Scott (yes affiliated to AAC) Morag Bellemain (not affiliated) and Ron Lawley (not affiliated) plus Steve Bisbey (not affiliated)
To my knowledge David Mayo was not aware of the scheme to take the packs from Denmark and later refused to accept a pack.
As I photocopied the packs I know for certain there was NO attempt to keep the tech under their sole control. Just Sayin
regards
Martin
Nice one Marty!
I haven’t yet seen anyone who has fully completed NOTs.
I know I still have a way to go after over 5000 hours.
Well we’ve all been slagging off Myo but I do remember a time when I was on the RPF back at Flag in 1978. My PC was having problems and David must have spent ages going through her folders. He wrote me a one page long cramming order which must have taken him at least a half hour to compose covering the most important references which I, as a hardly trained neophyte had missed.
I must admit I was somewhat amazed that the top tech terminal in Scientology would take that much time to help a humble RPFer. He also wrote a very exact C/S that perfectly handled the situation.
You are doing a fine job allowing disagreeing opinions. You are behaving like official Scientology should behave.
Ralph, see Mary’s remarks as posted by Pat on the ‘Deconstructing …’ thread on this blog.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/deconstructing-the-mayo-myth/#comment-117653
You don’t have to brag about it…
MARTY said:-
“Well, over the past couple months I have had some bedraggled souls wind up on my doorstep who have been mauled by old-timer squirrels. I repaired them, and will continue to do so as needed. But, it is apparent to me that a line needs to be drawn. Squirrels leave the church seeking freedom to do whatever hair-brained scheme their banks feed them. Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.”
I’m glad you’ve helped such people and continue to do so. Also I’ve been supportive of you and just about the only person defending you on ESMB. Still am supportive.
However I have several bones to pick with you.
When I met I commented that our philosophy is one which allows for redemption.
You need to do a bit more to fully gain redemption.
First re your comment above, its pointlessly divisive. The
” Freezone” was out there delivering tech outside COS before you came to the net.
Before you started your blog you asked me if I knew some auditors as you couldn’t handle all the traffic. I referred you to Ken Urquhart and Trey Lotz.
Here is an incomplete list of Freezoners who were delivering before you were on the net and many while you were still in COS, and who have come out on your forum or were praised by you or post here at least more than a couple of posts.
Ken Urquhart
Trey Lotz
Chris Black
Pat Krenik
Ralph Hilton
Mary Freeman
Frankie Freeman
Les Warren
Anita Warren
Roy Selby
Then some who came out on this blog and are now C/Sing for
Freezone Groups.
Glen Samuels Senior C/S for Pat and Ray Krenik and Roy Selby, and maybe others.
Dan Koon C/S for Freezoners in his neck of the woods.
Helen Chen and Partner [ Mat Pesch?] anyway using Trey lots as an auditor and maybe other things.
You calling them squirrel?
You castigate Mayo for accepting a settlement and you were the main person in charge of the legal actions against him. Ten years worth you admitted.
You castigate him for requesting LRH testify. His testimony would clearly be
important re the issues involved. You castigate him for abandoning the tech. Yet
that was the gag clause forced on him by COS. You being instrumental.
You catergorise Gerbode as a ” sugar daddy”. It happens he and family are wealthy enough to stand up to a decade of COS policy ” use the law to Harrass”. He was an auditor with Mayo, delivering tech very successfully. And you took part in stopping that.
Why do you wish to diminish him now? He was LRHs most trusted tech terminal.
Why on earth is it important whatever the respective inputs of LRH and Mayo were re NOTs.
The legal action against Mayo was money motivated and the COS attacked him long before matters came to court.
Mike you said:-
” he did something inexcusable. He took money to shut up and go away. If he was truly the champion of standard tech, he would NEVER have done that. He was more interested in wind-surfing, and he had a sugar daddy that had supported him for years.”
So why was he legally harrassed for a decade by COS [ not sure of your part in this] for delivering tech?
In the end, after a decade it was Gerbode who pulled the plug on further legal nonsense and Mayo was not able to continue litigation.
You said:-
“Yet, after a couple of years, he walked away to windsurf.”
Court documents go on to at least 1994 re the court action, and I believe later.
His placing on the running program was around 1982-3. He was told by DM he wouldn’t leave it alive.
Now I have a request from someone in Arkensas who needs an Int rundown.
Anyone anywhere near who can deliver?
MARTY
“Well, over the past couple months I have had some bedraggled souls wind up on my doorstep who have been mauled by old-timer squirrels. I repaired them, and will continue to do so as needed. But, it is apparent to me that a line needs to be drawn. Squirrels leave the church seeking freedom to do whatever hair-brained scheme their banks feed them. Independents leave the church seeking freedom to practice standard tech.”
I’m glad you’ve helped such people and continue to do so. Also I’ve been supportive of you and just about the only person defending you on ESMB. Still am supportive.
However I have several bones to pick with you.
When I met I commented that our philosophy is one which allows for redemption.
You need to do a bit more to fully gain redemption.
First re your comment above, its pointlessly divisive. The ” Freezone” was out there delivering tech outside COS before you came to the net.
Before you started your blog you asked me if I knew some auditors as you couldn’t
handle all the traffic. I referred you to Ken Urquhart and Trey Lotz.
Here is an incomplete list of Freezoners who were delivering before you were on
the net and many while you were still in COS, and who have come out on your forum or were praised by you or post here at least more than a couple of posts.
Ken Urquhart
Trey Lotz
Chris Black
Pat Krenik
Ralph Hilton
Mary Freeman
Frankie Freeman
Les Warren
Anita Warren
Roy Selby
Then some who came out on this blog and are now C/Sing for
Freezone Groups.
Glen Samuels Senior C/S for Pat and Ray Krenik and Roy Selby, and maybe others.
Dan Koon C/S for Freezoners in his neck of the woods.
Helen Chen and Partner [ Mat Pesch?] anyway using Trey lots as an auditor and maybe other things.
You calling them squirrel?
You castigate Mayo for accepting a settlement and you were the main person in charge of the legal actions against him. Ten years worth you admitted.
You castigate him for requesting LRH testify. His testimony would clearly be
important re the issues involved. You castigate him for abandoning the tech. Yet
that was the gag clause forced on him by COS. You being instrumental.
You catergorise Gerbode as a ” sugar daddy”. It happens he and family are wealthy
enough to stand up to a decade of COS policy ” use the law to Harrass”. He was an auditor with Mayo, delivering tech very successfully. And you took part in stopping that.
Why do you wish to diminish him now? He was LRHs most trusted tech terminal.
Why on earth is it important whatever the respective inputs of LRH and Mayo were re NOTs.
The legal action against Mayo was money motivated and the COS attacked him long before matters came to court.
Mike you said:-
” he did something inexcusable. He took money to shut up and go away. If he was truly the champion of standard tech, he would NEVER have done that. He was more interested in wind-surfing, and he had a sugar daddy that had supported him for years.”
So why was he legally harrassed for a decade by COS [ not sure of your part in this]
for delivering tech?
In the end, after a decade it was Gerbode who pulled the plug on further legal
nonsense and Mayo was not able to continue litigation.
You said:-
“Yet, after a couple of years, he walked away to windsurf.”
Court documents go on to at least 1994 re the court action, and I believe later.
His placing on the running program was around 1982-3. He was told by DM he
wouldn’t leave it alive.
Now I have a request from someone in Arkensas who needs an Int rundown.
Anyone anywhere near who can deliver?
Thanks buddy,
That’s a good one.
I’m still lookin’ tho. Different ref I’m thinking of…
Then go ahead and keep worshiping him…good luck.
that’s right and if they knew their ethics tech they would know that on the first page of the ethics book, LRH says Ethics is a personal thing. You have to take personal responsibility for your dynamics, case, ethics, morals, etc… not anybody else taking responsibility, not them telling you what you did wrong or right. And doing it without your own determinism or someone else’s viewpoint clear violates the tech and you will get no gains (that action in itself is out-ethics and will take you down). I think this principle is the most violated piece of LRH tech (auditing, course room, ethics…) and the very thing that caused the self-destruction of the church.
Agreed. When I retire, I want to write about Sea Org staff member history, and hopefully not to many of the old Sea Org vets die before I do, because I want to get a lot of people to fill in history.
Terril,
Just a question, are you in comm with Marty as far as the details of the squirreling he’s talking about? Just a naive but simple question I felt compelled to ask.
wow! You need to be interviewed. If you come to Pittsburgh, I’d like to go through the Tech Vols, video your comments on them issue by issue, for the years you are familiar with the compilations.
Erwin,
As I wrote earlier the order never came from DM2 either.
Personally I think you assign him more omnipotence than he deserves.
Mayo’s threat to the organization at the time was *real*.
You’d have no idea unless you were there.
And Mark.
I always treat him with the respect he deserves.
No 3P there 😉
Not having been on the ship, I am clueless about this, but nonetheless, I have a question. Why would Ron even bother to have Mayo transcribe the tapes, do the back and forth CSW’s? I don’t mean to impugn the man, but Ron was famous for the speed he could write – he has written scads of stuff. On his tapes he says he used rolls of paper so he wouldn’t waste time changing sheets. Why would he bother with the Mayo via?
A curious Mimsey
Thanks Slog,
Good call 🙂
Erwin,
No one’s asking you to buy that Brooklyn Bridge.
Ron never handed over Scientology to any *one* individual.
He never even handed it over to any one group.
The trademarks and service marks were given to RTC and the copyright for his works was given to CST.
This is what the legal documents say.
Since CST was knocked out of commission by circumstances obviously beyond its control.
Guess who is assuming that hat 😉
As a Public Course Supervisor I used to hear this argument all the time and my answer was usually:
“What do you materials state?”
Also I suggest reading the HCOPL ‘Safeguarding Technology’ as well.
No one is here to force Scientology down your throat.
If you want to look at the “pretty rocks” than go right ahead.
Your more than welcome to.
Okay so we’re arrogant but at least our PCs are winning.
Wow DM2 an SP!
Yeah I just blew down and F/Ned on that indication.
Next……
I agree with every word you say Erwin.
However at least we can take comfort in the fact that SPs can’t complete a cycle of action.
Bless their black little hearts.
Also all they got was the Church and we still have the tech.
I’m trying to look at it as the glass half full instead of half empty these days.
Martin – you were actually the liason terminal to David for the EG AAC.
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/read/reconnection/issue03.html
Don’t you remember Steve Bisbey and Morag operating from “The Spinney”? as EG AAC?
Hi Robin,
Your acks on my posts above are well received.
I don’t know the details because I indeed wasn’t there but I’d love to figure out what really went down.
I may have missed one of your posts but who was running RTC and started the legal battle against Mayo?
I think he was no treat to the church but just to some managers with dirty hands. Do you have any idea why LRH got so upset with him after he saved his life?
Terril, Thank you so much for the list of great people to get services from.
There is really nobody to worship, just to respect and agree/agree to disagree.
ok, thanks. Its was just the first question which came up on mayos story, It seems like an out point, for me explainable with some type of pts-ness only. But be sure I am not wasting too much time on the question. I just think thats a pity that he ended up this way.
Hi there Terril my friend
http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=149
http://internationalfreezone.net/fieldauditors.shtml
http://www.freezoneauditors.org/home/
Oh Can I haz the goods on this guy ?
http://www.getmoreable.com/
“destruction of the GO”
And nothing of value was lost…
Ima not seeing DM gone yet
And welcome Martin
“As I photocopied the packs I know for certain there was NO attempt to keep the tech under their sole control. Just Sayin
regards
Martin”
Man it’s buzzing with ’83 Independants here.
Thanks Erwin,
I wasn’t sure who from RTC actually ran the “Squirrel Buster Project” but according to Mike it was Vicki Aznaran.
My direct senior at ASHO was Red Van Dyke and what I did mainly was review folders of PCs who were recovered from the AAC.
Mainly OSA (though I thought it might have been the GO due to the time period) handled the legal aspect and any covert actions against AAC.
I was never involved in the Cloak and Dagger aspect.
And HCO and PAC security handled any AAC public who had infiltrated the complex.
We used to turn over KRs obtained from Eligibility sessions that indicated involvement with squirrels over to them.
So that’s as far into the ethics aspect of the program I got.
Mainly we just FESed and Programmed the case so it could be repaired and returned to the Grade Chart.
Cases who received squirrel auditing are pretty easy to repair unless they been run while on drugs like peyote for example.
But none of the AAC people had been that badly mauled this was another squirrel group who used peyote to restim prenatals and whole track that occasionally came on our lines.
Nuttin’ fancy really.
You’d think there would have been more to it with all the confidential directives we crammed on prior to all of this.
This is what I remember of the project.
Anyway the Ol’man wasn’t too happy with Mayo because he was basically out of control.
He was doing some pretty squirrelly shit like mixing RD and grades actions with repair.
So of his “programs” would include parts of the HRD mixed in with parts the PTS RD and maybe even L-10 actions with a few RLs thrown in.
He was getting kinda weird.
I think the big thing that might have pissed off the Ol’man other than that was when Ron had issued the HCOB ‘State of Clear’ saying there were no harmonics to Clear yet ol’ Davy issued a revision to C/S series 12 which totally contradicted it by saying there were.
Personally I don’t think that went over too well.
Nor the fact that he arbitrarily canceled the Pro TR’s as a prerequisite to auditor training.
Anyway Ron busted Dave and replaced him with Ray and turned him over to the tender mercies of the coup…..
Who *falsely reported* that they were “standardly” handling him.
And the rest is as we say history.
Hi Marty,
Thanks for letting this through. I never met and don’t worship Mayo.
Had he not been sent on the running program how different things might be!
Still looking for someone to audit out int in Arkansas if you know of anyone.
OTDT, Have no details of the squirreling Marty refers to. If he wants to pass them along I can connect to various people who could do qual actions. If they wish that.
Yes. I don’t know anyone that worships Mayo or wants to knight him. These are exaggerations applied to a generality. Who would want to worship another being or give pointless “status” such as knighthood to anyone? However, there is having admiration for a being, respecting a being, and giving credit where credit is due.
Its VERY easy to point fingers and get critical about someone when there is charge around the subject. However, when one doesn’t have charge on it then it’s easier to have understanding and be more pan-determined.
Writing a couple of articles on this subject of mayo with obvious assertions and bias doesn’t help as-is the charge. The thing that as-ises this would be a session on that subject and thus taking full responsibility.
So Marty, I respect what you are doing regarding miscavige, great stuff, and great your auditing and communicating etc, but you lost some points, from me at least with these mayo articles. Not because I worship him or want to knight him, but because he deserves respect and credit for what he did under huge suppression. And instead you’ve written a couple of little pieces with obvious bias against him, which is very suspect considering your involvement in the suppression of him! You don’t need to continue to justify what you did by continuing to make him the bad guy.
It’s all quite funny as well though, because ultimately at a deep level the real suppression comes from within. One suppresses oneself. With charge, lies, agreement, postulates etc.
Marty,
Thank you for your kind advice. However, I have no intention of being a sheep again. I say again, because I clearly WAS one for almost 20 years, despite protestations to the contrary. I was too ready to believe what I was told without question and more importantly, I was all too willing to do what I was told when it went against my better judgement. This is something that I am thoroughly ashamed of.
Now, I try to evaluate everything for myself. I don’t pretend to have the answers or know the truth, but that’s fine – I can live with that. What I won’t do again, is blindly follow.
George Baillie called me a squirrel, which actually didn’t bother me too much, but I do object to the inference that I am a sheep. I passionately believe that the vast majority of the problems being experienced by Scientologists today are due to too many blindly doing what they are told without considering the consequences.
Yes, Miscavige is a very naughty boy ( NOT the messiah – Python fans will get that one 😉 ), but what could he have done if everyone had said “You are full of crap Davey – get lost”?
I appreciate what you are doing here Marty and it makes my heart glad when I see Scientologists proudly proclaim their independence. But if Scientology is to survive what is coming, then the old patterns of behaviour cannot be repeated.
Ax
RJ,
I’m glad to hear that no one is going to try to force Scientology down my throat. I had quite enough of that in the CoS thank you. And obviously it doesn’t work – but you’ve already worked that out, that’s why you are here and not still in the Raw Meat Grinder.
Looking at pretty rocks or throwing a few? 🙂
Here’s a question for you, if I may – are you prepared to accept that someone else’s viewpoint might be just as valid as yours?
Ax
CD, your last link (to James Newell) is to one of the last remaining “field auditors” still in the CoS.
RJ , Mike is right
MB, I wasn’t there either but here’s my guess: having things recorded in Ron’s voice was easier to authentic (later on, if necessary) than having something hand-written. So the original ideas/concepts are recorded, and the resultant written issues are typed up and issued as HCOBs.
Terril, I think to most of the Scientology universe, Bill Robertson “squirrels” above OT III, no?
Part of hundreds of thousands no doubt.
Margaret
“Terril, I think to most of the Scientology universe, Bill Robertson “squirrels” above OT III, no?”
Certainly some considers he squirrelled. I’ve done OT3 twice and merely touched upon NOTs, to give perspective to my comments.
Rons Orgs have around 60 groups in former russian territories.
After OT 3 they do ” Excaliber” which covers similar ground to
NOTs. I’ve read the OT5 materials and some of Excal, an ongoing project. I have no opinion on which is best. Nor am I trained above interning NED, so have not much in the way of tech evaluation here.
Having been in contact with Rons Orgs members for years, and in
fact a member of a forming RO in the UK for a couple of years I can
make some observations. They love their Excal! Of course its
not delivered in an unsafe environment.
A friend who has been approved to deliver audited NOTs did
not find Excal useful but had decades of unhandled problems on
NOTs to handle. That was her opinion after visiting Max and Erica
Hauri’s organisation. She observed that those starting on Excal
did well and were very appreciative. Both she, a trained sup from St Hill, and another friend, previously a sup at Flag, found the course room exemplary.
The fact is that ROs train more auditors probably than the rest of
the world. At least till Helen Chen came along. 🙂
Their Moscow conferences, last I posted pictures on my forum
from, had 350 attendees, with the total combined reg power
of…………..one broad E=mail.
SF,
It is different because there are technical protocols involved in Scientology, which is not really true in Christianity today. It may have been true 1,900 years ago, but no longer.
If you are planning to drive cross-country you are better off using a late-model Ford or Chevy as your vehicle, than a beat-up old Yugo, even though you think the Yugo is a Ford because it has been sold to you as a Ford. Sticking a Ford emblem on it didn’t make it as good as a Ford, it’s still a cheap knock-off of a car.
For a more recent example, there is a Chinese auto manufacturer who wanted to sell their cars in the USA until they really looked and realized their product was essentially a cheap knock-off of an automobile, and they had a loooooong way to go, to measure up to US market standards. Needless to say, they have shelved their idea to sell in the US for several years at least.
That’s the real issue, sloppily made “knock-off” brands vs. the original, time-tested and verified brand called “Standard Tech”.
“What’s the best way to get the result” does not equate to “What’s the best way to worship God”?
And cheap knock-offs in the personal development arena have produced tragic results, as in EST for example, ruining the life of the marvelous singer John Denver.
Today in 2011, the CoS itself has gone a long way towards morphing what it delivers in the direction of an ineffective and even destructive “knock-off” of LRH’s Scientology tech. It manifestly isn’t “cheap” but it’s often an ersatz, phony, fake, squirreled product.
Beautiful, amazing amounts of good points, clarifying.
Thank you Veritas.
Marty, I have said this before, but must repeat. We all found Scientology, got involved in all our different ways. The Church went off the rails. Lots of confusion and suffering and basically Dev-T. And so, we may not have noticed that from the real LRH that did/does get read & applied a New Civilization is here and expanding. And it can be seen and experienced here on your blog. What wonderful, intellegent, articulate beings including you, Marty. This is a big, big win. LRH’s work did this with all the abuse and squirreling in the Church. Imagine when it is applied in the manner intended on a broad scale. I am confident the “Aims” can be acheived.
Michael,
I particularly dislike having to duck those unmonitored 1,000+ lb. facsimiles which come loose from their moorings and sometimes drift into my living room just as I’m standing up to go get a snack from the kitchen. They can deliver a nasty bump to the head.
To answer your question Ax:
no…..
🙂
Jus’ kidding.
Personally I think every body’s POV is valid.
However standard tech like policy is to a large degree based on agreements and even to a larger degree on what works and has worked in the past.
Okay now that I’ve beaten you over the head with the usual *indoc*.
I’ll give you my viewpoint.
I apply standard tech because it works and for no other reason than for the fact that it gets results.
Now there is a lot of other tech out there including the Golden Age of Tech that doesn’t work as well or is actually destructive.
That said:
I think a lot of the problem is that students of Scientology particularly today where their motto over *there* is “Perfect Auditors” even before the guy actually *audits*.
These is all wrong.
You can never *teach* an auditor to be a “perfect auditor”.
He or she can only learn how to be a perfect or somewhere closely approximating that since as we know absolutes are unattainable auditor is by *auditing*.
This is one of those key stable datums that has been thrown out the window over there and I must admit it also affects auditing over here as well.
This why Ron wrote the HCOPL Supervisor’s Stable Data which I’ll post for here because I think its importance is underated.
(Begin Fair Use)
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 2 DECEMBER AD 12
Rernimeo (Reissued as amended
Tech Sec Hat 7 September 1967)
D of T Hat
Supervisor Hat
SUPERVISOR’S STABLE DATA
In addition to the Supervisor’s Code (old Instructor’s Code), there is a primary stable datum about all
supervision:
Get the student to accomplish auditing the preclear and then get the student to accomplish it with better form,
speed and accuracy.
A Supervisor must never lo se sight of the PURPOSE of auditing. Auditing is for the preclear, is intended to
improve the preclear’s case. Auditing is not just a matter of good form.
The reason some students do not accomplish auditing is that they become so oriented on form alone that they
forget the purpose of the form.
Good auditing form and correct sessioning obtains many times the result of bad form and incorrect sessioning.
But total form and no effort to do something for the pc results in no auditing.
The result comes before the form in importance. Because students may use this idea to excuse lack of form, Q
and A-ing, and to squirrel with their processes, the stable datum becomes unpopular with supervisors.
A student should first be held responsible for the state of the pc during and after sessions and made to know that
as an auditor he is there to get a fast, good result. The student should then be taught that he can get a better, faster
result with better form. After that the student should be taught that Scientology results are only obtained by correct
and exact duplication of Scientology processes, not by off beat variations.
The student wants to know how to do this or that. Refer him to his materials on how to do the most fundamental
actions, but MAKE HIM OR HER DO IT. And keep up a running refrain that you want results, results, results, on his
pc.
The student will be all thumbs and faint. The Supervisor may be horrified by the goofs. But don’t bother with the
goofs. Just demand results on the pc, results on the pc, results on the pc.
This action by the Supervisor will teach the student (a) that he or she.is supposed to get results in auditing and
(b) that results can be obtained and (c) that he or she sure needs better skill.
So the first address in training is to teach those above three things (a), (b) and (c).
You can’t teach a student who doesn’t realize that results in the pc depend on the auditor and auditing and that
results are expected from auditing; who believes results can’t be obtained from auditing or wants to prove auditing
doesn’t work; arid who doesn’t yet know that he or she doesn’t know. These are the barriers to training and a good
auditor.
The gradient approach to the mind is vital. Clearing will not occur without it. But the gradient approach to
auditing can be overdone to a point where the student completely loses sight of why he is auditing.
143
1 . First and foremost the auditor accomplishes something for the pc and without that there is neither sense nor
purpose to auditing;
2. Excellent form accomplishes more for the pc faster; and
3. Exact duplication of processes alone returns standard high level results on all pcs.
The student thrown in over his head learns:
A. Results in the pc depend on the auditor and auditing and that results are expected from auditing;
B. That results can be obtained in auditing and the better the form and duplication, the better the results and
C. That the student has more to learn about auditing and that the student doesn’t yet know.
Therefore the Supervisor must teach the student:
(a) That he or she is supposed to get results in auditing;
(b) That Scientology can obtain results; and
(c) That better form and duplication obtain better faster results.
I dare say many students learn things just because they are told to and find no relationship between form,
duplication and the preclear. Let them fall on their heads and yet obtain results and this attitude will change-and you’ll
save us a lot of off beat nonsense and case failures in orgs and the field.
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
LRH:dr.jp.cden Copyright @ 1962, 1967 by L. Ron Hubbard ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
(End Fair Use)
Hope this helps to explain my position Ax.
The irony here is that the Church of Scientology has driven itself around the bend by trying to obtain some kinda of unobtainable “perfection” that can never be achieved and has ended up Squirreling the tech.
I’m sure an irony that is missed “over there”.
Hopefully we won’t miss it ourselves.
Anyway Ax.
I think you’d make a great auditor Ax if you aren’t already one and I mean this and hopefully you’ll dust off that ol’ meter you may have in storage or pick up one and start auditing people.
If you feel a lil’ rusty and would like to bone up on things there’s Jimbo out there in Havana FL who will help you out.
Or just start auditing and don’t worry about screwing up PCs.
Just remember the Chapter on The Auditor and the Minds Protection and go have a blast.
Cause auditing people’s supposed to be fun!
Which is another point they miss big time over there.
Ml
RJ
EXACTLY! So exactly THIS! Thanks, Infinity, for your astute take on the matter.
You have stated in an ESMB Thread you have done Cpt. Robertson’s Excalibur Auditing.
Paolo, I have been around a long time aver 40 years in Scientology and I see you speak the first words of wisdom that have been seriously lacking these days.
My Christian upbringing had instilled in me a very wise saying that was supposed to have come from the Christ himself and that saying was
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”
LRH, Roos,Mayo,Marty,Mike Rinder,Jesse Prince, Arnie Lerma,Denis Erlich and all others with myself included are not without sin so no one should be free from being scrutinized for their actions one way or the other.
The process of letting the chips fall where they may when investigating the facts and being faced with what may have been destructive and vengefull actions on one’s part including those of LRH will evolve something usefull out of this mess is my view.
I no longer use Scientologese as I found it put me in the position of assuming others had the same concept I had when using it but instead
I was guilty of imposing my will on others with the framework it was created with.
It is easier to pin myself down as to my intent without the Scientologese I found and along with it went the fear of what were my real motives.
To attempt to mislead or disguise by smoothly shifting attention away from the heart of this matter will move the scene closer a serious fragmenting of the movement now in progress.
I seem to think Marty himself is very aware of this new evolution by allowing the pro & con opinions to be voiced more so than before.
I can’t say I agree with Marty’s views and he does not agree with mine either but that is what a dialetic is all about or an attempt at it at least.
Maybe we do all have some hope in understanding our own position honestly in this uncertain future after all.
In getting older I have lost the desire to defend ideas I once cherished as the integral part my functionality were false and not really defensible.
I do not use any Scientology at all in my profession or life anymore.
I enjoy very much my professional and personal life with the money aspect of it being a moderate amount of remuneration.
Money motivation can cloud issues severely and emotions will run wild with it so this yardstick needs to be used in looking at who is casting the stones or instigating the stone throwing.
I don’t think it’s about worship at all.
The datum “Auditors are the most valuable beings on the planet” applies.
With tens of thousands of hours in the chair and C/Sing, and good enough for LRH to have him audit him, I think those are the rightnesses that are important.
Interesting how you all are continuing to defend Mayo, and said nary a word in favor of LRH in the post that follows.
I have another question, if I am up to speed on this, there was OT V nots, then OT IV nots style, then Mr. Mayo was booted and everything evil was blamed on Mayo nots, then there was doing OT VII in the HGC, then came solo nots, then there was the nots with the special steps and indocs, then there was golden age Nots and finally Golden age solo nots, based on Miscavige’s ED on how solo nots was now done the way LRH did it. Except for all of the name game bs, is there any real difference between them?
MB
+1
Mr Rinder, I just would like to know how a for profit corporation like ASI sits at the top of this pyramid church
and sucks the money out of the tax exempt non profit entities below it just like the OTC registered in Panama by LRH did with the Churches of Scientology(though not tax exempt then).
The whole scam of the Basics Book packages debits from parishioner tax deductible service accounts =money extracted from the”churches ” going to BPI then ASI which are both for profit organsations.
Do you realize you have the blueprint how we do this and enrich ourselves while the moron average citizen(like myself) out there has to pay his taxes rates without any breaks.
“So of his “programs” would include parts of the HRD mixed in with parts the PTS RD and maybe even L-10 actions with a few RLs thrown in.
He was getting kinda weird.”
Where did you get this information and how do you know it is true?
That was third hand but I saw several Mayo C/Ses that included.
From memory went like this.
As a “repair” or “assist”
1) Quad Ruds and overts on __
2)Cant/Enforced Have on_
3) HC Plus/Out list on __
4) Fixated Attention steps per HCOB 6 Mar 74
If you don’t see anything wrong with the above than I suggest you read C/S Series 115 as well as HCOB 6 May 74 particularly the section on ‘Integrity’.
The above was C/Sed to handle a PC on a 2d upset of some kind.
About the L10 well I was told verbally that on some actions he included this plus occasionally even L11 and 12 actions.
There were other “inventive” actions that were included in a rather turgid and lengthy(like 99 frickin’ pages!!!) HCOB entitled “C/Sing the HRD”.
That included showing the PC the auditors comments and the “C/Ses” eval about the case.
So many evaluative/invalidative RFs that one needed a score card to keep track of ’em.
Such highlights as continuing to run the HRD on PC even though the PC’s int was reading because Dave knew that the HRD would handle the PC’s int/ext problems.
Fun stuff like continuing the RD over actual criminal crimes committed by the PC because again Dave figured the rundown would handle the …er…PC’s problems with ethics.
See “Ethics and the C/S”.
Mercifully the monstrous HRD issue was canceled after Dave moved on to his just rewards.
hmmm. weird indeed. these could have been made up though by someone. perhaps a way to discredit him to the tech people.
Hahahahaha!
Thats very good RJ!
“Will everyone who thinks Marty’s comm is too critical or too harsh or mean or not granting enough beingness please stand up and move to the left side of the room please. Thank you. IMHO everyone else take a good look – these people cannot be trusted – they will weaken your ranks and sabotage your efforts.
Calling it like I’ve seen it.”
Howabout a game of musical chairs instead?
I’d say its most definitely Black & White, rather than ambiguously “What some consider”.
I don’t have a problem with Capt. Bill or his OT Levels.
But don’t pretend its Scientology. Just be honest and say so …
It may well be based on Scientology principles to a greater or lesser Extent, but it was not written nor authorized by LRH.
Scientology is based on the written materials, audio recordings and Films created by LRH. It is not “channeled” from LRH to Capt. Bill to you.
See —> HCOPL 9 Feb 79 II How To Defeat Verbal Tech Checklist
If you apply that Checklist written by LRH, you will see LRH come to the conclusion that any Tech that is ‘channled’ is false. It cannot be run through as above.
Furthermore … HCOPL 16 Apr 65 Iss I >> The “Hidden Data Line” states:
Capt. Bill’s Excalibur Level Auditing is, according to the above reference … a squirrel process. So what you think “some people consider” and what LRH says are not remotely the same story.
A conversation I had not too long ago went something like this:
RO: Verbal tech blah, blah, blah.
Me: Where did you get this?
RO: Its LRH.
Me: What reference were you referring to?
RO: It was issued by Capt. Bill directly from Ron.
Me: Where? What? Where can I look it up it up?
RO: Its in so’n so where LRH channeled it to Capt. Bill from Sector 9.
Me: WTF ?????
I couldn’t tell if he was just pulling my leg or being 1.1 or what? But he wasn’t. Its far worse than that … he actually believed that.
And that is the dumbing-down with conspiratorial nonsense and False Data Implants unfortunate newbie CO$ blow-offs get nailed with when they arrive here in the Freezone looking for Standard Tech. They prey on the uninformed, ethics & messed up cases … and those not too excessively bright.
But none of this will cut any cognitive cheese with them. Even if the false data is pointed out as above, they will still resolutely hang on to it down to their last breath. More likely to ARC break that they’ve been made wrong, than ever as-is the obvious.
Just don’t con anyone that Excalibur or any of these supposed OT Levels of Capt. Bill’s above that point is LRH, or Scientology for that Matter.
DM might let you do your objective 3 times.
You know what that ,means. That LRH was fully responsible for RPF Programm of Mayo.
Trying to break his wil and spirit
This is why people like Mayo so much. LRH became the authorithy and Mayo the rebel.
Exactly what Broeker resorted to when Miscavige and the SO had him in a corner during his ousting. Precisely what Miscavige – less overtly and more subtley – has resorted to over the past several years.
What means WTF ?
It means What The Fuck? It’s internet slang, it means the writer is surprised about something, sort of like “Hey, what??!!”, just stronger
Interesting on the Broker Deal.
One is often lead to believe that standard Scientology is at play in the CBR camp below OT-3. Unfortunately that isn’t so either.
I have it straight from the head RO muckie-muck that Grade processes are not checked [Ref. HCOB 23 June 80RA Checking Questions On Grade Processes] before running any given Grade as this reference, as well as many others, are supposedly “Not LRH”.
Further it was claimed that Dan Koon, having worked in LRH Technical Research and Compilations Unit in the Senior C/S International Office in the Sea Org for at least a decade, (who would probably know better than anyone else) also can not confirm the authenticity of this HCOB, as LRH supposedly died/was killed in 1980 … I can’t remember the entire conspiratorial rant behind it.
By appending false hidden plots fabricated out of thin air to properly verified and released LRH data, standard tech is covertly knocked out of existence, creating an environment perfectly receptive to all manner of alterizations and squirreling. Persons already doused and duped down with tons of false conspiratorial Data cannot note outpoints, and remain invisible even when the actual references are placed square under their noses. It makes such people appear dull and stupid gradually shutting down analytical thought.
Another key Falsehood by means of misleading numbers routinely peddled is that Co$ does not have OT-9 (unkown) whereas “we” are up to OT-48. One-size-fits-all pitch-patch Advance Programs are not remotely the same thing as actual LRH issued OT Levels.
True they could have been forged under his name but they weren’t.
The “style” of “C/Sing” covered in the HRD issue and various C/Ses and programs that I’ve seen was his style entirely after Ron had gone off technical lines.
Why he did it can only be left to speculation.
However the fact is that he did alter the tech.
Hey Foremost, Already done objectives 3 times. Drilled, ran was run on all.
That was some of the first actions in scn. Correct sequence. 🙂
Never did excal. Took the CBR advice that those who didn’t go clear on the clearing course should look at CC platens on OT 2 .
This was my favorite bridge level and was really happy to have a reason to go back there. Lots of TA for a few days on CC , a little more OT 2 and a whole new run on OT 3. All good.
Re Excal being ” squirrel” I shall get rather heretical here.
LRH was a master “squirrel”. One of the foremost threads that
evolved into scn was “Magick”.
He continued to alter tech in various ways for decades.
From anyone else that would be considered” squirreling”.
The cool thing is that he was a genius.
He stated that scn was a workable path rather than a perfect path.
Much work on making it more workable and getting nearer to perfection.
I just looked – did you see Nancy Many’s post about how they were accepted by Allen Buchanan instead?
Obviously many people were lying at that time to cover their own and other asses. I was around then in the Independent CIC at Avalon in East Grinstead quite a bit. I think I have a good understanding of the Data Series and the Chart of Human Evaluation. Whatever good David Mayo had done earlier, it became quite plain to me that he was following a very squirrel path which involved the denigration both of LRH and the State of Clear.
Thank you RJ for your considered reply.
I too think that everyone’s POV is valid – just not as valid as mine. 😉
Getting results, well I guess that’s what it is all about? When I first heard that the end result of the GAT was ‘100% flubless auditors’ I just shook my head in disbelief. Yes, it might be something to AIM for, but not really obtainable was it?
The two best auditors I ever had were clearly not 100% flubless, but they had presence and they knew how to maintain ARC, but above all, they CARED. Some of the worst auditing I had was from GAT graduates, and in fact, virtually all of the GAT auditors that I had, were below par IMO. Robotic comes to mind. But then I’m a critical ‘SP’, so what do I know?
The current model of the CoS where everything is shiny and ostentatious and staffed by robots was a real turn-off for me. Where were the real people who cared and put results before looking good?
Now that you mention it, some of the best times I had were when I was auditing others, I didn’t do a huge amount but I like to think that I made a difference. I gave away one Quantum, but do I dust off the one in the wardrobe?
Anyway, you are right – Scientology was meant to be FUN! How did we lose that?
Ax
Terril,
Bill Robertson teaches solo auditors to take entities who have previously been in quite a low case state and train them up telepathically to audit power processes on their breakfast.
LRH says very emphatically not to run the C.C. materials on a Clear. Bill says do it. There are technical reasons why it should not be done which I hope any Class8+9 auditor would easily grasp.
Bill says run a group of beings on an ARC break and assess the ARC break on the group. That is squirrelling as it results in a lot hung up in wrong indications.
The above are in Bill’s tape recorded lectures in his own voice.
Excalibur does not cover similar ground to NOTs. It indoctrinates people to handle aliens from a long gone era as if they are in present time and throws people down the track into delusory states.
I’ve talked to some of these people – they describe in vivid detail implant stations on other planets or underground on earth that they claim to see with their exterior perception but they can’t tell you what is in the next room. They can’t see the outpoint and it doesn’t seem to occur to them that they might be looking at facsimiles.
RO do not train any auditors at all. They train people to deliver something else.
Yes. The first version of OT5 works. Alterations and arbitraries made later versions unworkable resulting in the horrendous current disrepute of Scientology.
Didn’t LRH say something like “The only thing we can be upbraided for is lack of results” ? Its happening now as the results are just not there with current squirrel versions.
Ganja?
LRH squirreled Crowley?
Around 1985 I became curious and studied in depth some of the sources that LRH refers to. I read everything written by Korzybski and a lot of Crowley.
I’ll even admit to having put on a robe and tried out a few of his rituals.
I found 2 things of value in my study of Magick. One was the statement something like “Man is basically a star” – he was perhaps saying that we are strong beings not ruled by the universe.
The other was “Magick is an act of creating change in conformity with will”
To my view those 2 statements of value that I saw in Crowley’s works could have contributed to axioms 1 and 2.
I think LRH stated them in a far more succinct and workable fashion.
Terril – in my opinion running the c.c. on a Clear could result in a brief blowing of a lot of charge then a stagnation of case gain due to bypassing of a lot more charge.
Are you currently making case gain with auditing or solo on a regular basis?
When did you last get a floating TA?
Marty has posted that Jesse is his friend so I posted what I did quite lightly. About appropriate kicking of hineys I really don’t think I need to say more than that I do have a sense of aesthetics and would prefer not to polute my feet in kicking yours.
VWD on dusting off that meter.
And YES Scientology should be fun and if it ain’t then something is very very wrong for sure.
And I love your line:
“I too think that everyone’s POV is valid – just not as valid as mine. ;-)”
Ya mind if I abscond with it 😉
Really CD you should go back to playing with yarn instead of high voltage cables.
I hate the smell of burning feline fur.
Jeez Marty! My drug of choice is beer, of which we had libations
together. Smoked Ganja once decades ago and as I don’t smoke tobacco all of these never took.
Ralph Hilton | April 16, 2011 at 9:56 pm | Reply
LRH squirreled Crowley?
Around 1985 I became curious and studied in depth some of the sources that LRH refers to. I read everything written by Korzybski and a lot of Crowley.
I’ll even admit to having put on a robe and tried out a few of his rituals.
I found 2 things of value in my study of Magick. One was the statement something like “Man is basically a star” – he was perhaps saying that we are strong beings not ruled by the universe.
The other was “Magick is an act of creating change in conformity with will”
To my view those 2 statements of value that I saw in Crowley’s works could have contributed to axioms 1 and 2.
I think LRH stated them in a far more succinct and workable fashion.
TERRIL
I agree.
Scientology and the Occult
“The magical cults of the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th centuries in the Middle East were fascinating. The only modern work that has anything to do with them is a trifle wild in spots, but is a fascinating work in itself, and that’s the work of Aleister Crowley – the late Aleister Crowley – my very good friend.”
Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course, Lecture 18, “Conditions of Space-Time-Energy.”
Also
“it’s fascinating work in itself, and that’s work written by Aleister Crowley, the late Aleister Crowley, my very good friend.” (3) The book recommended was The Master Therion, (published in London in 1929) later re-released as Magick in Theory and Practise.”
Then look at Crowleys comments which are very reminiscent of the Factors.
http://www.corax.com/tarot/index.html?naples-arrangement
LRH commented in far more understandable language, IMO.
Just trying to make the point that LRH stood on others
shoulders. As stated in early books.
Crowley was not mentioned much for PR reasons I guess.
LOL at avoiding the issue
Okay RJ Who was Mayo’s C/S than ?
CD,
I have no idea who Mayo’s C/S or who his auditor was either.
But I do know that after Ron moved off of tech lines personally that Mayo began to squirrel.
As to your statement about the RPF.
I don’t remember seeing any order by Ron assigning him to the RPF.
As far as I know it was ordered by a Comm Ev that was approved by the International Ethics Officer the post that became the IJC later.
I saw the EOs and none of them had Ron’s name signed to them.
The only person they never really treated harshly was probably Mary Sue who they allowed to live her life out in obscurity.
Who knows why but probably the reason was there was that they feared a blue electronic streak that would have leveled the Int Base originating from Creston.
It seems they knew how far they could go.
Mayo a different story probably because the Ol’man felt he betrayed him he probably allowed the machinery that was being erected at the time to take care of it.
This ominous omnipotent illusion of Ron seems to be a hallucination that seems to be promoted by critics and churchies alike.
Had they been standardly run to full EP the first time, there would be no reason to do them again.
I couldn’t care less what Capt. Hook, Capt. Bill, Capt. Morgan or Capt. America would have anyone look at. Again, not LRH.
You cannot alter something that was not in existence at the Time.
Research follows a line of corrections.
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=564804&postcount=193
“First, my sincere thanks to my good friend Martin Ruston for setting the record straight in so many ways, in describing the events around December 1983 and the NOTs materials, as well as his robust defence of David Mayo’s character, which has been shamefully assassinated on a blog where I am not allowed to post!
There would be little for me to add to Martin’s excellent analysis, if it were not for the lies posted by Ralph Hilton, which I must now correct, please:”
“Man is basically a star”
We all are made of the same stuff stars are made of basicly
RJ, I appreciate your experience and opinion on this. But the fact of the matter is mayo was under huge suppression at the time and was being taken out by RTC, and being discredited was one of the major ploys of the time. Anything produced by the church at that time that makes mayo look like a squirrel is highly, highly suspect…
Infinity,
DM1 contributed to the motion to some extent.
He was in fact one of the original signatories to the creation of RTC.
In other words the guy wasn’t an innocent babe in the woods or a lamb led to the slaughter as the later after the fact hagiographies portray him.
Whether he was a “bird dog” as he is portrayed in the ‘Story of a Squirrel’ is questionable.
Personally I think the actual “bird dog” was missed in this case.
But who would have known in all the confusion that was being generated at that time.
Who that “bird dog” actually was.
Help your self RJ.
Royalty fees apply of course.
Just kidding. 🙂
Ax
Help yourself RJ.
Royalty fees apply of course.
Just kidding. 🙂
Ax
Jeremiah 8:17 Sin and Punishment
“See, I will send venomous snakes amoung you,
vipers that cannot be charmed,
and they will bite you.”
declares the Lord.
I doubt your words and your claim.
Do you have back up links
http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/frank.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_A._Gerbode
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/before-you-knight-mayo/#comment-118537
Omitted data –
“I discussed the distribution of the NOTs materials afterwards on the phone with David Mayo in California. We deferred to him as to the appropriate allocation of NOTs copies.”
What did David say back?
So at least the bs about David not being involved is put to rest – Robin admits that David was a party to it and that that he deferred to David’s decision.
I also now understand why carrion appeared from esmb to attack me.
CD – now you have truly shown your colors.
There has been an interesting new development. Robin Scott has surfaced to relate his direct account of the events in question. Unfortunately, he feels unable to post them here. Nonetheless Robin’s report can be found on esmb in the thread entitled “David Mayo, Bill Robertson, Robin Scott -More Truth Revealed and Realities uncovered” as post #193.
Here: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=22904&page=20
From: David Mayo
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: My position on a.r.s
Date: 12 May 1996 20:55:54 -0400
“I am not a Scientologist now and have not been for many years — at the moment there is no precise point when I ceased to be one — if pressed for that point of departure, it seems as fuzzy as my logic. “
First of all, “he feels unable to post them here” demonstrates a mind that is riddled with delusion. Second, I never assisinated his character or even attempted to. Third, he is living proof of what has become of old school squirrels. Fourth, neat how he appropriates “independent”. He’s mimicing as much as Miscavige these days. Birds of a feather.
Dream on CD.
I’m not your secretary.
Actually Marty with regard to ‘independent’, you are the one who is mimicking. Those of us who left during the eighties commonly referred to ourselves among ourselves as independent scientologists, to distinguish ourselves from the dangerous cult we had left behind. David Mayo was a respected member of our community in the u.s.. With the continual persecution and harassment by the church many, although by no means all, were forced to go ‘underground’ and thereby dropped the ‘scientologist’ designation.
That word, as I may remind you remains a trademark of the destructive cult from which we have all chosen to distance ourselves.
The term ‘freezone’ was originally a designation reserved only to the adherents of CBR. Over the decades the two designations, ‘independent scientology’ and ‘freezone’ have become effectively synonomous.
When it comes to independent scientology you are the one who is the ‘new kid on the block’ . Your attempts to redefine the history & meanings of independent scientology tend to obscure far more than they enlighten.
“First of all, “he feels unable to post them here” demonstrates a mind that is riddled with delusion.. Fourth, neat how he appropriates “independent”. ”
First. This is a highly censored site and if I or Robin says anything you don’t want here it won’t get published. How many posts of mine or Robin’s have you cut? Or am I being “delusional”?
Fourth. How incorrect can you be?? The word “independent” was used way back – when you were attacking us.
Victim…
Victims…
old saying:” when you are in a hole – stop digging!”
“Omitted data –
“I discussed the distribution of the NOTs materials afterwards on the phone with David Mayo in California. We deferred to him as to the appropriate allocation of NOTs copies.”
What did David say back?
So at least the bs about David not being involved is put to rest – Robin admits that David was a party to it and that that he deferred to David’s decision.
I also now understand why carrion appeared from esmb to attack me.”
my reply
Oh dear 5000 hours on NOT’s with still a long way to go and you can’t read! The operative word is “afterwards”. That doesn’t mean “before” or “during”. We were ALL involved afterwards probably even you.
Sure David Mayo was joined as a party after the event. The mere fact that he was phoned regarding it does that. What’s the big deal here? I don’t get it.
By the way – we are all “carrion” – from the Latin meaning “meat”. Yes you too.
Ok, you all have had your say. I’m not allowing this place to deteriorate into a squirrel bitch slap fest.
thanks 🙂
Posting your reply on ESMB
I am getting pounded from both sides. Kinda feels nice.
Oh yee of little faith.
Whatev…
David Mayo is posting on ESMB. verified by other sources than my own.
My sources are impeccable.
He is….but just chatting about nothing in general. He made that very
clear that he is restricted in what he can chat about. I love David Mayo—he truly backed me up when no one else would, in 1979. 🙂
Great comment.
Back in 83-84
I kew – you – (all the executives actors in Miscavige takeover – and himself) where getting rid of him because he was of a danger for succeding to accomplish a specific hidden agenda. The purge we have seen at that time – that emptied org and missions from their best tech and admin terminals is memorable.
This was so much of a circus- the Bigger sp of SP’s finally found and handle – and the cruisade against black hatted men started and did not lie. Some of us just wait to see who would emerge
that we know who were the real sp’s….and wich new entities should be of no trust – then , for us, the nobodies – arose RTC – OSA and IAS
David Mayos is one of the rare who have left a the meaning of love and compassion within our heart. This cannot be whiped out with whatever people who made sure he couldn’t take in a settlement, would say from their viewpoint.
Anything that could be said about him would never be Mayo
Hurting – beating and destroying lifes has never been his agenda.
Mr David mayo was and is still a great being.
He is one of the rare people I admisre in $cientology and happy that you got rid of him as he could live longer and happier out than in , where he would have to be destroyed as it was a process already started.
May he have a good life (he is becoming an old man) with peace – wich he deserves.
We remember what it was when Mayo was in and what it became after
That is the date of the unforgettable break for lot of us – the nobodies.
Not sure it will be posted – but if it is
Thank’s for allowing free speech Marty as this is not an agression – nor natter or hate but only a recall and viewpoint, that was usually of no value as it comes from the bottom of the hyerarchy.
Have a better days yourself Marty
The notion that in KSW hubbard said “we will not analyze how I came to rise above the bank”says enough about conflict with his own LOOK ans SEE for yourself
That’s not correct CD. The proper quote is
“We will not speculate here or why this was so or how I came to rise above the bank.”
Which completely changes everything
My bad. but still it leaves it uninspected
Not at all.
“analyze” is not the same thing as “speculate” and “here” only means “while I’m writing this essay”.
You are completely free to inspect the entire topic as much as you want (and should do exactly that). The author was making a point and didn’t clutter up the essay with long explanations that were OT.
Unfortunately, far too many readers of KSW over the years suffer depleted brain cells, and did what you are complaining of – never inspected the datum. I don’t think that’s what the author intended, and I never read it that way.
“But, I think it is high time to clearly delineate what we stand for and distinguish it from others with not so lofty goals.” – Marty
I think it is time for all of us old timers and new independents to get together and to clear any ARCx-s with communication in order to form a strong combined 3d group sealed together by a common purpose.
You just don’t get it. It is not about having a new cult. It is about practicing the technology. This “we have two things in common (the tech is good/the church sucks) means we are all the same is nothing but latent cult think.
Marty, by common purpose I meant the same as you do – practicing the technology – making Clears, OTs and auditors, C/S-es and other tech terminals. I am not for creating a new cult or any org or structure more then a field of independent terminals connected by common purpose of practicing The technology and clear communication lines with each other to direct the flow of pre-clears and pre-OTs through that channel up the bridge that we all together deliver. I’d like to see that an auditor in the field has a clear commlines with other auditors, ethics specialists, C/S-es and qual terminals. I want to see a happy independent field scientology group, not the bunch of separated and individuated terminals in disagreement, fight or disgust toward each other. That would be not a scientology really, as it would be the demonstration of disability to communicate.
I’m not the least bit interested in joining any more clubs that tell me where to sign to attest what I believe. In fact, I’m changing so fast right now (and plan to do so for the rest of my existence) that I wouldn’t agree to anything if you held a gun to my head. Actually, I might lie so you wouldn’t shoot me.
Please don’t misunderstand — I know what has and currently works for me and what I like about Scientology and how it is helpful to me. But the idea that I would agree with anybody else about everything about Scientology or that I or they should have an ARCX because we don’t agree just seems ludicrous.
I don’t have to be right about what I think. And I don’t have to be right about what you think either.
I am in this for the Free-dom. Not the Free-dumb.
JM
P.S. I authorized this message.
“…The trouble with OTs in the past has only been lack of cooperation and commonly agreed upon objective.
Without these OTs eventually fall prey again to smaller beings with bigger organization skill.
OT is an unstable state only when OTs are not cooperating with OTs but each one going his own way in the strong but fatuous believe he can single-handedly survive.
The proof is, OTs have not survived as OTs whenever this super individuation collided with the super organization of weaker beings.
The answer is to remain organized, mutual assistance and integrity and not lose touch with or responsibility for all levels of life forms and societies.
This means that programs for such agreement must be offered…”
L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 25th June 1963
Goodbye.
Disassociation is not a freedom, and disconnection from other beings with different view points is not freedom ether.
You don’t have to agree, but you have to be able to understand and be able to communicate with other beings to be free.
It is not about asserting rightness or making others wrong, in is about being able to communicate with others and do not low the affinity while communicating. It is about sharing theta without getting it enturbulated. It is about scientologist being friends, not enemies to each other and work together toward common goal.
I guess, I was talking here about learning to grant beingness to each other so that we can agree with a fact of existence of some datum in other person’s universe without having to agree with the datum itself and letting it into own universe. So that nether universes shrink, no theta gets enturbulated and we can love each other, stay friends and get alone even through disagreements.
I am still learning to do it myself.
Am I paranoid or is it too much to dream for?
I think the truth is we are all in the same boat. We have this huge track and it re stimulates constantly. The only thing to do is apply standard tech to ourselves and anybody else who wants it.
LRH stumbled into this, had it kicking up in his face until he died, and still kicking up in his face since. He tried his best to tackle it and made some major leeway. He had a lot of help too. David Mayo seemed to say something in his Sunday speech that resonates and maybe we could all try writing this down on our windshields. Treat the individual as a being.
Labeling, accusation and calling for “linchings”, while they have been the preferred form of entertainment for the past 75 trillion, seem only to validate the bank. But then again, what do I know?
Is mayo still alive and kicking and if do where does he reside? Thanks tj
Dear Marty,
After watching David Mayo on YouTube and reading his reports on the internet, I find him to be very credible. Karen’s story about him on her blog lines up with my take on him. A kind, calm, thoughtful man who loved the tech and loved to audit. I could see this sort of person being exactly what LRH would want in an auditor for himself.
If Mayo only claimed when he went to court that he had authored NOTS, (as before that he only claims to have assisted, from what I’ve read) who could blame him or his lawyer after what you and RTC and put him through? It was greatest good to take on the church.
Has anyone seen the April 1982 despatch? I suspect it was pulped long ago. but that it existed.