Miscavige’s cult got caught in a rare triple play today. Score it Corpus Christi Texas to San Antonio Texas to New York City. Or if you are from Canada, you can call it the Hat Trick. Whatever you call it, recognize Miscavige’s stats of number of citizens sickened by his cult’s antics are straight-up and vertical. Anyone want to bet whether he’ll change a blessed thing after stormy Sunday?
Corpus Christi Caller Times Sunday edition, Church of Scientology Magazine Seeks to Hire in South Texas:
http://www.caller.com/news/2011/jul/09/church-of-scientology-magazine-seeks-to-hire-in/
San Antonio Expess News, Scientologists Behind Harassment Campaign in Ingleside:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Scientologists-behind-harassment-campaign-in-1459662.php
New York Village Voice, Placido Domingo Jr.: Scientology’s Retaliation is “Scary and Pathetic”:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/07/placido_domingo.php
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Will there be any change from Dear Loser?
Only to ramp up the insanity even further. You hit the nail on the head Marty, when you said he doesn’t care about the consequences, he wants people to think he is stark staring mad as its his only hope for making you and others scared of him. He is sinking rapidly into his isolated and insane world.
The CofM are doing a wonderful job of turning molehills into mountains.
Working overtime it seems to turn their displays of insanity into national and international press exposure. But then again, what can you expect from the guy that directed Tom Cruise to attack Matt Lauer and Brooke Shields to show how “macho” he was. Now he is daring the media to come after him again – but this time he has boxed himself into an impossible position because the “church” denies any involvement, but they have gone into ostrich mode with nobody reachable to respond.
Linda Wieland (Simmons/Hight) fell off the radar screen (maybe she is shoveling shit with Tommy now?) after telling the most blatant lie since Tommy’s “there’s no such thing as disconnection” with her denial that the church has any involvement in all this.
What is funny is the mocking tone of the media – they don’t buy the lies for one minute.
What is not so funny is the blatant violation of priest-penitent information now being exposed in specific detail. But that alone is going to turn this into international news. They just couldn’t leave well enough alone with Bruce Wiseman’s insanity – they had to pile on with their zany blog posting, complete with name calling (you can tell that people calling Miscavige names really impinges as he has strange names for everyone….)
What is really hilarious is Charlie Orr, speaking on behalf of everyone who has ever seen or heard these morons, saying he wants to form the “Ass Busters” and dump these idiots out to sea. Charlie Orr – a REAL American. Honest and telling it like it is. And that’s what Dear Loser and his sycophants just don’t get. They are unable to assume any viewpoint other than that of Madman Miscavige.
Something stupid I did years ago, from my ethics file, is now on display. I could give a rat’s ass because it’s handled now. The point is…..this data could’ve come only from CofS. They are now actually doing it. They’re actually putting priest-penitent ethics files on the world wide web. If you listen to The State Of Man Congress (a brilliant series of lectures by LRH on the subject of ethics), you know that the church is in its death throes for real now.
Another interesting tidbit is that a koolaid I know (used to know, that is), just friended with Bruce Wiseman a day or two ago. This person lives in LA and is deeply connected with DM’s inner circle of bigwigs but isn’t one himself. The tight-knit crew of bots are “strengthening” their comm lines while the rest of the world of Scientology is squeezing them with true ethics.
Let’s keep pushing these fuckers!
I should clarify one thing: The entire foundation of what holds Scientology together is ethics tech. A person simply MUST be able to fully trust the church with his or her most carefully-guarded overt/withhold material or the whole thing goes up in flames.
And this is exactly what CornOnTheCOB, midget-boy is doing.
WAKE UP people!
Tables Turned – Is it good for you DM?
Mike & Marty:
What was that rule in auditing? Never stop a process that is producing good T/A ?
I am very sorry I could not come to the Independent’s Day celebration so I could shake your hand and those of so many other good Scientologist(no tm) who don’t have their little turtle head and flippers tucked in like good little DMbots.
McSavage *is* stark, staring mad. It’s not a feigned act, I don’t think he can take much more of people loudly saying “No!” before he has to go to the rubber room, seriously.
May all the Heavenly spirits guard you and guide you!
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
The confidentiality between auditor and PC is the foundation for success. Not being able to speak freely results in no case gain. This is HUGE. They really have lost there way.
Miscavige has really blown a gasket. The repercussions coming back his way are only going to increase 10 fold.
I took a look at what they posted regarding Mr. Domingo (I of course don’t believe a word of it) and it almost assuredly came from the mouth or keyboard of Miscavige. Some of the most vile language you can imagine.
And this from the leader of a “Church”?
He must really be sleeping well at night!
Go grab another 5th of Scotch or better yet, weld your hands to grounding rods imbeded outside your financial irregularity of an office. Maybe that will make your feel better!
I don’t know what you did Bryan and I don’t care,
I had my own share of “out-ethics”, and yes it was part
of my SP Declare, of course. I just think it’s rather ironic,
that all of the good things we did while in and all the commendations
are somehow didn’t matter anymore… Overnight SP.
Plus 1!!
I agree, this is a huge flap from a PR aspect. DM’s arrogance is catching up with him.
And I did not know the details that Mike Rinder was still going through the same shit as Marty, though I knew of such vague news. Interesting.
Hey Mark!!
Good meeting and talking with you at the party! Great stories!!
Hello Everyone.
It’s my first time on the board, though I have followed it for a long time.
Marty, Mike, Mosey, Karen and all the rest, you get medals for bravery under fire.
Great reporting by the Caller. Miscavige clearly does not get it. Probably because of his contempt for people, he does not grant them the beingness to see through his laughable and childish ops, like trying to cover-up his illegal harassment and religious persecution, hate crime programs by calling them “filming of a documentary.”
Unfortunately, the victim in all of his stupid actions is the PR of the word “Scientology.” His crimes against innocent people are bad enough. But, his daily crimes against LRH and the Tech are incredible. He must really hate LRH.
He is going down, Unfortunately, he is taking the church, LRH’s rep, etc. with him. So, my friends and I are working to help him achieve his goal of self-destruction faster, to limit the damage he is doing in his plunge.
Thanks for your work.
Thomas Franks
I just wanted to cry when I read about the 70 year old Orr in the story. Here’s a man living his normal life and expecting other people to be, well — normal.
So, he sees these guys in with their stupid Squirrel Buster T-Shirts and like any sane person, he tries to reason why there is an onslaught of people in his town, wearing these funny shirts. He thinks maybe there’s some sort of infestation, “Maybe there is a squirrel problem in town that I don’t now about.” Good grief! This is embarrassing to watch.
insane(in¦sane) adjective
1) in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behaviour, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill: he had gone insane
2) (of an action or quality) characterized or caused by madness: his eyes were glowing with insane fury
3) extremely foolish; irrational: she had an insane desire to giggle
There is no better way to describe these people but insane. I-n-s-a-n-e.
Please excuse my typos. I’m tired!
Wow-these REAL journalists are not fooled- the Corpus Christie Caller Times reported that the Freedumb mag states it is devoted to Human rights and social betterment, yet puts most of the focus on attacking former Church members.Very DUMB.
DM will not change because his ser facs won’t allow it. As stated in the definition of “computation”- “A computation is as insiduous as it pretends to align with survival. All computations are nonsurvival. Computations are held in place wholly to invalidate others.” Dm will predictably continue to make MAJOR strategical and tactical errors in an effort to “survive.” He is such a GONER!!!!!!!! Bye Bye.
One of the stats for the maiden voyage event tonight was highest ever. Inches of Press! Only no one mentioned it was NEGATIVE PRESS!
I recall an LRH lecture where he talked about stuck flows and how they never flow weaker, they only flow harder. DM should realize that he is not above the mechanisms of living.
That said, I am sick of this crap going on revealing session data to attempt to silence people.
So, I tell you what DM, I will make you a deal. You go ahead and post some more session data from pc folders to attempt to silence critics and I will post the data I observed coming up in Tom Cruise’s sessions with Ray at CC Int in December 1995 that you ordered me to go down and observe. Remember? You sent me down with Greg and Lynn Engen to keep an eye on Ray and we watched the sessions through the CC Int look in system.
So, do we have a deal or is your stuck flow to stuck that it will embarrass the greatest Scientologist you have ever known?
Your call.
Dan
This depraved “leader” doesn’t care diddly squat about what crap he throws out there. Anything seems to go in his attempt to take people down so he can save his own ass. That isn’t going to happen because the momentum is building and there’s a lot more coming his way. His paranoia is intensifying as he’s pushed further and further into a corner, striking out like the proverbial rat. The same thing’s happened to all SP’s on their way out, and he’s close, very close. Anyone looking on not convinced? Just take a brief look at the 20th Century.
that is so tragic what the cos did.but very theta on how sam and junior handled there 2D….heh cos YOU BREAK UP FAMILYS AND ITS ON THE WEB..!..its in writing you scumbags…!forever and ever…!
heh DM i want you to word clear ‘SOCIAL MEDIA’ and then clay demo it.
sam if this was a bollywood movie,i know how it will end…..!
love conquers all…!
I too read the crap that was posted about Placido Domingo, Jr on the anti-Marty hate site. This is perhaps one of the most disgusting character assasinations I ever read. Who did they hire to write this vile stuff?
But the thing that really got me is that most of the article tries to discredit Placido Jr for not being as talented as his father. WTF??? So what, even if it’s true? One could say that Lisa Marie Presley is not as talented of a singer as her father, but of course the “church” doesn’t write about it as it would be incredibly rude. And pointless. However, we all know that that is exactly what would happened if she ever left the C of $. As well as exposing priest-penitent confidential information divulged in her auditing sessions. They really have the celebrities by the balls, don’t they? This “church” consists only of Fraud – Extortion – Assaults – Espionage – Lies – Blackmail – Rape – Suicide – Homicide. And I’m just gettin’ started…
This response from the “church” is a total PR disaster. What will other celebrities think when they see a successful artist ATTACKED simply because they refuse to disconnect from a familial connection? Up to that point, Placido had never said anything negative about the “church”. Won’t would-be celebrity $cientologists wonder “what would happen to me if I ever left?” if they see this sort of thing? Oh that’s right, no new major celebrities into $cientology in over 20 years.
Also, why would a so-called “church” feel they need to use these kinds of blackmail tactics to keep sheep in the fold?
Definition of Treason: Betrayal after Trust
Definition of Stupidity: Trust after Betrayal
And then there’s this from Oz today:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/scientologists-threaten-to-sue-cult-victim-group-20110709-1h85b.html#ixzz1RcQLvJPb
This story has appeared in at least another dozen papers here in Oz today.
OSAbot Ms Stewart has simply managed to inflame the extremely negative image of the Co$ here.
It must be International Footbullet Day 😀
The Lunatic Antichrist of Hemet has just handed the critics and the media more “smoking gun” evidence that the Cult of Scientology is both Evil and Stupid:
1. The Cult is Evil for exposing personal information given to it by a parishioner in a confessional.
2. The Cult is Stupid for publicly, and very ineptly, attacking yet another former member whose is famous. This is not some pc in Van Nuys after all. This is an international story. Well done COB.
The Cult of Scientology spends money on PR while at the same time doing everything it can to dig the hole it is in even deeper. Why both spending money on PR when a violent deviant with shit for brains is COB? Seriously: Why waste money on PR O’Cult of Scientology?
This is a case where the Cult has once again been caught out in the open even as it tries to deny it did anything.
*****
David Miscavige has so badly mismanaged his Evil Cult that the leaders of North Korea, Yemen, and Iran are now arranging an intervention for him.
If one were going to make a movie about how to ruin a megabucks Cult, they would call David Miscavige to write the script.
And perhaps that is exactly what David Miscavige will do someday from prison.
/////
My favorite quote in the San Antonio Express article was:
“We’re here to shoot a documentary of Mr. Rathbun and his activities. We don’t follow him around, he follows us around,”
So, just to get this straight —
1) Filming a documentary about a bad, bad person.
2) Strategy for filming is to not follow that person around because they conveniently follow you around instead.
3) Not following that person around means renting a paddle boat and sitting on the water behind their house filming them, renting a house in a neighborhood where they’ve been living, and trying to buy a house across the street from them.
I know that part of Scientology is to make sure you understand the definitions of words. I think that someone needs to buy the “Squirrel Busters” a new dictionary. Because the one they’ve been using clearly has the wrong definitions for “following,” “journalistic,” and “harassment.” While they are at it, they should also look up “plausible,” “subtle,” and “religion.”
Marty, there’s no need for your neighbors to form an “Ass Busters” group, since the goon squad is doing a fine job showing themselves as asses and busting themselves every time they show up in their silly costumes or speak on record.
“It’s not what we would consider adult behavior.” – Yep, they got that right. It’s the behavior of a 5 year old. Cult leader David Miscavige….that boy needs a serious “time out” before he hurts himself (and others.)
“Insanity is the overt or covert but always complex and continuous determination to harm or destroy.”
“COB” is INSANE!
For a contrast, I spent an afternoon in the presence of His Holiness the Dalai Lama yesterday. He spent over 3 hours giving a teaching on the foundation principles of Bhuddism….a true religious leader, at times very funny, others deeply insightful, and caring for all sentient beings.
I felt a connection that I hadn’t felt in a long time (outside the Indy Party, of course) to the core of humanity, and our inherent interdependence.
Perhaps not surprisingly, he opened his comments with a call for honesty, and for understanding, not just lip service, to the tenets and prayers of the Bhuddist Tradition.
And not one word about “real estate”.
To me, the key question is “How many ways can you spell G-L-U-T-Z P-R?”
Talk about not knowing when to just leave things be! First of all, Placido Domingo Sr. is not only one of the most accomplished artists in the world; he is probably one of the 10 most famous people on the planet and greatly revered on every continent. So……..someone decides to royally harass his SON??????? And the “squirrel T-shirts.” Uhm……along with the camera hats….it doesn’t really IMPRESS people, know what I mean? (Though I think Japanese tourists would dig the camera hats – anyone wanna go into business?)
Basically, re: what you’re doing Marty – “OK. Continue.” It’s the exact right thing. Because this totally wacko nutso response from Miscavige&Co. is exactly what is needed and wanted to publicize the fascist underpinnings and totalitarian behavior of the COS. The COS is now DOING the job of the critics! And that’s the best way to get it done – suicide. (I’m just sorry Mike and you and Mosey have to go through the daily harassment of it all – probably if you really decide you WANT it to happen every day, these guys will just get tired of doing it. But in the meantime, keep publicizing it as much as possible as the public loves this stuff.)
All this Texas publicity should reach Debbie Cook. I wonder what she thinks of all this. She still can help people if she were to take a stand. Isnt that what they do in Texas.
David Miscavige and his advisors (oh, excuse me, I mean the yes-men and yes-women who suck at his teat) are now shooting nothing but footbullets.
He and his minions don’t have a clue about the stage upon which they are overacting. Do they not know they are visible to the audience? Do they never read their reviews?
Someone, please, turn the lights off. This show is dead.
Just Me
Sam and Placido, your behavior during the attacks you’ve suffered these last several years has been commendable. Much respect!
JM
Once there was Truth in the Scientology organization and
confessionals were respected as sacred trust and the data
was only used for the development of a program for the pc
that would free him/her from misdirection and unethical
behavior (self crucifixion) and the diminishing of survival
of others along all the Dynamics of existence in this
Universe.
Unfortunately, the sacred trust has been violated to the extreme
by the current operations of the Miscavige regime.
This is a destructive action that comes back to those
carry them forward. It will return to them three fold.
So many good and honest people are pursuing the Scientology
ideal in an not so Ideal Organization. So many staff and
seekers of Truth are inside completely unaware they are
on the road to destruction. They still hold onto the
Truth within self with the great hope of self revealtion.
Come out to freedom. The unaltered tech is found outside
the organization.
Cross that threshold to Freedom by walking out the door
of the organization and DON’T LOOK BACK. For to look back
is to question your own personal integrity and the dwindling spiral
you wanted to be free of will begin anew. Recall what happened to
Lot’s wide when she looked back after being freed from
the culture of death that was Sodom and Gomorrah.
For those in need of confessionals, use the data LRH provided
in Ethics. Write them up. Get the cog on the real why?
Show them to an Independent. Accept forgiveness, forgive
yourself. Begin to forgive others. Only then you can go FREE.
If no ine is available to assist you, get your cog and
aim your write-up straight to the shredder.
My best to all in you endeavors.
Use of PC confessional info of a celebrity = Total Meltdown
The cornerstone of Scientology’s “good PR” is it’s celebrities. When celebs fear their secrets will be used to control them, then you are done.
Total Meltdown.
If you would like to communicate with Bruce Wieseman, here is his eamail address: Bruce@brucewiseman.net
“Anything you say can and will be used against you.” – from Miranda Rights. How many times have you heard this in a movie, or worse yet, in person? Either way, it does have an impact and is easily understood. What is not easily understood is that confidentiality between auditor and PC is far from an absolute. Witness the above referenced article wherein Placido Domingo, Jr. has pointed out that his confidentiality was breached. Everyone in the current “Church of Scientology”, picking up the cans, should know this!!! If you say something, such as an unsavory overt, in session, you may hear it or see it in print one day. How can you do ANY auditing which would address overts and withholds with any confidence that you are safe to do so? No amount of the handling of Black PR can overcome such egregious betrayals. How would those who know go about getting these things more and more into national mainstream media? Celebs such as Placido Domingo, Jr., Jason Beghe, the Luglios and others have many stories to tell. A compilation of these in an article in USA Today, might be a good start. Written in the familiar time, place, form, event with the who, what, where, how, when of reporting should about nail it. Corroborative testimonial comments could also be useful. Perhaps it is time for a new CNN interview. WHo has comm lines to them? St. Pete Times?
The situation is sad, pitiful, unlawful, disgusting, immoral, and at the very least, out-ethics. It is time for the world to know the truth of the fair game being run and it is time for the “stop” aspect of “control” to “start”.
Wow, emphatic signals from C of M: we WILL break up your family and we WILL use your pc folder data against if you try to leave. Good luck attracting new members CULT.
STT — Yep, he is preparing his “rolling thunder” for the IAS event: “Total square footage of meltdown media is gathering momentum like a southbound train on a downhill plunge. We no longer measure it in column inches of press. In fact, in just the last 6 months we have exceeded the total square footage of Idle Orgs by a factor of 5. This is truly historic, straight up and vertical. Not THAT’S expansion at orders of magnitude!”
David Miscavige = The King of Ser Facs
Scooter:
Virginia Stewart is practicing the fine art of Miscavige PR ™. Lash out with the stupidest actions, then follow up with even stupider comments that are guaranteed to get media coverage.
Oh, what a wonderful lawsuit that would be. Can you imagine a court case based on her statement: ”We do not have a messianic leader, we do not predict the end of the world, our members are urged to think for themselves…” This blog and all the witnesses that appear here would make for a very newsworthy case! 🙂
Dan,
Standing up for your fellows and friends! Greatness!
I guess he’s found his audience, and is going for broke. After all, everyone loves a good train wreck (except those in the train, of course).
“The Wreck of the Old ’97” was based on a real event near Danville Va. in 1903. It has been cited as the 1st million record selling country music release in the history of the American recording industry. Looks like we will have to update it for “The Trainwreck of 2011”.
This does leave you with a real warm and fuzzy about talking to your auditor or anyone in the church. Life as a public/staff member in CoM is no longer and will never be the same. Open your eyes those on the fence.
They messed with my girl Sam/Placido and their family unit. You do not mess with a mama and her cubs. Bad move. I am so very proud of both of you! ML, Jan
Synthia,
Very well written!
Synthia — embarrassing and insane, the two terms that most aptly sum it up.
Of course, Dear Loser doesnt do embarrassment. Self-introspection is not one of his strong suits. And of course, as LRH says in that famous interview, the only man who never wonders whether he is insane is an insane man.
Everyone else looks on in horror or amusement, or horrified amusement — and he just keeps plowing ahead, oblivious of the destruction he is wreaking.
Like a kamikaze pilot, he is frozen at the controls, full speed ahead, straight down and vertical…
CoB = King of Pain
Hi Thomas,
Welcome and I love to hear from your friends and all the help you guys can give Davey on his personal road to total failure.
Look, up in the sky. It’s a bird! It’s a plane!
No! It’s the RCS Snowball flying right off the cliff!
Look ma! No hands!
Crunch! Bang! Boom!
Oh no, guys! We’ve just crushed the Church! Quick, let’s blame Marty!
(Stay tuned for next weeks zany sequel to “Arrested Spiritual Development” starring Little Weasel and the Whack-offs. If you thought “Jackass, the Movie” was a pratfall made in hell, you ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. If you thought getting kicked in the balls hurts, just wait till you see what Little Weasel does to the souls of his good buds. A body only hurts for a little while; these guys are in it for the looooooooooong haul. Eternal suffering has never been funnier. Just watch their harebrained antics send them into a dwindling spiral that zip-screws them straight through hell to that place even Beelzebub shuns. The looks on their startled faces will leave you rolling with laughter. Absurd theater at its best. Sulfurous fumes are simply aromatic compared to what they breath down there. You’ll be slapping your thighs with laughter as you watch them trying to inhale that stuff. “Arrested Spiritual Development:” the season’s funniest show you haven’t watched yet.)
Thank you Dan for sticking up for the rest of us. The dwarf does have us by the balls. If you own a business or work for a company do you want your PC folders on the internet?
Also, DEBBIE COOK PLEASE STAND UP. WE NEED YOUR HELP. I know that you read this blog. You are very respected and please stand up now. Someone is going to get hurt or worse if the dwarf doesn’t get taken out quickly!
To the C of $:
Congrats! Your Public Relations techniques are WORKING!!!! The public is SO impressed with your church-like activities! The orgs will SURELY fill up to the brim now. Or…not?
ML,
Songbird
Now there is a “too gruesome”. Hopefully it will get Miscavige to stop committing his grossest of overts – making the communication line between auditor and preclear, unsafe.
Mark,
This is the kind of vile, scurrilous hate levelled at Sea Org members by David Miscavige.
He’s been unrestrained and rabid in his dramatizations within the walls of Int for some decades and now that venomous hate is being played out on the world stage.
Placido Domingo Jr. and the caustic diatribe published (!!!!!) on David Miscavige’s hate site by his moutpiece/alter-ego ‘Minerva’, is a public display of the exact nature of what those at Int, and spread down through the rest of the Sea Org orgs, have experienced, witnessed and had to endure personally since this sociopath took office.
He is NOT the leader, the self-appointed ‘pope’, or any thing else to do with my personal, spiritual and religious practice of Scientology.
He’s a false messiah, a usurper and a lie. He’s also a bona fide, verifiable, and continuous criminal (see savescientology.com).
As disgusting as this ‘article’ on Placi Domingo and his family is, THAT is a product and THE produce of the mind of David Miscavige.
Hey TF, welcome.
Dan, I like it. I also am sick of this crap of exposing session data. This is not a church.
BTW: loved your wedding picture. CONGRATULATIONS to you both and may you have an awesome time in Sweden!
Dan,
The main ‘trick’ of the MEST being, the SP is to bait one into comparable overts as a resistance to what they’re putting at you.
Don’t go for it my friend. DM’s flows have a limit of elasticity, the ‘stuck’ phenomenon you’ve mentioned. The rest of that data is it takes precious little to tweak that flow so it returns when it came. It’s an ‘A/C’ universe and D/C will eventually have to return to fill that vacuum. Just a tweak, and it appears that tweak is well under way.
Let go the rubber band of his acts against the dynamics and they go back. That’s what happens. That’s the level of Newtonian Mechanics this MESTified block of solidity is at. (To say nothing of ‘spooky action at a distance’ :-))
The Rutting Pygmy Baboon’s abhorrent behavior is like a gift that keeps on giving. To the bitter end.
World-wide media is chronicling the paranoid psychotic usurper emceeing his own meltdown with vim and vigor. It was only a matter of time. Makes me believe in karmic retribution.
Now that we’ve entered the final countdown phase, fasten your seat belts and assume a crash position…………..
And please pass the popcorn.
I laughed till I cried – Charlie Orr’s wondering what the vermin infestation might be. Ha ha ha the vermin are none other then the mindless lemmings following the mindless donkey Mc Cabbage.
The great thing about the press is it is shedding a spot light on the crazyness of the CO$.
The more we comm the truth the less the lies & half truths have a chance of existing.
Prexactly!
Plus!
What DM is now doing to Placido, Tony DePhillips, myself and a growing list of others (revealing our priest-penitent session data to the world wide web in hopes of silencing us or “getting even”), is going to be his biggest foot-bullet.
He will most likely continue on this particular line and expand it rapidly to include many who post here.
What to do is grit your teeth, bear it and KEEP RIGHT ON COMMUNICATING ON AN EVER-EXPANDING COMM LINE!
If you have any fence-sitters in your life, please let them know about this newest, and perhaps most destructive, DM attack plan.
Am I misunderstanding this? (In case I have misunderstood and I am getting this totally wrong, then I apologize in advance for what I am about to say.)
Are you threatening DM with revealing embarrassing stuff about Tom Cruise? I don’t get that.
What did Tom Cruise do to you, or to anybody else? And even if he did something, does that make it OK to release his confidential PC folder information? This whole PC-folder-leak-punishment-and-blackmail thing has been known since the 80s at least, of course, but it is probably the most-infuriating thing that is going on, other than the trashing of the name of Scientology and of LRH. So, it’s not OK for DM to leak PC folder data, but it’s OK for you to do it?
Just to make it clear, there are two things here that really piss me off:
1. Why is Tom Cruise such a favorite punching bag? What did he do? The worst I’ve heard is that he is a zealous Scientologist. Hell, I would have been damn proud of myself back in the 70s and 80s if I had it together to be half the Scientologist Tom Cruise is. OK, so he hasn’t yet seen the light of DM’s suppression, if one wants to view it that way. Does that make him complicit, that he is not aware of it? Does that make Tom an SP, to be attacked and ridiculed and have his session info leaked? Fair game?
Nearly every one of us here has at one point or another been a quite zealous Scientologist at some point, and none of us was out until we were out. How can Tom Cruise be expected to be any different. He’s in. Maybe he will be out one day, but why do people expect him to act like he’s not in when he is? I heard all the stuff he said to Matt Lauer and about Brooke Shields. He called Lauer “glib”. That’s a big crime? He went like a man and personally apologized to Brooke Shields and she accepted it and forgave him. ARC Break handled. The stuff he said about psychiatric drugs, like it or not, is totally plausible. You really only have to read the listed side-effects of the medications to see how bad they can be.
So, Tom Cruise is being the best Scientologist he knows how to be. That’s a suppressive act? I met Tom a couple of times in the 90s, and spent almost zero time around him. But he seemed like a beautiful guy with a very clean space to me.
Why is it OK to leak Tom Cruise’s session information?
2. The second thing that pisses me off is really the first thing all over again — this whole thing of leaking session confessional info or ethics folder info, etc. As a few people posted, this attacks the very foundation of Scientology. How can you have an auditing session if the PC is not absolutely certain that what he says is totally confidential no matter what? Unbelievable that anyone ever did this. It is a horrible, despicable act, no matter who does it or for what reason.
Hi Synthia! Good comment.
The beauty of all of this is that DM reads this blog every day and acts accordingly. Even though he is reading what I am saying here, he cannot stop reading because, and only because, this is the only place in his universe where he can find truth. He is riveted to this blog because we are on to him. LRH said in a HCOB on Level II that people think you are a genious when you find out about them. Deep down inside he loves that we are nailing his ass to the proverbial wall. His SP valence then attacks back and this is how we know we are impinging. It’s just beautiful.
M L Tom
For anybody in LA, this might be of interest:
“You know how every year the top OTs on the planet, OT Ambassadors, meet on the Freewinds with International Management. This is where the Maiden Voyage Events happen that we all get to see. However, there are other briefings that are delivered which are more in-depth into current strategies and what is happening. These are just for the OTs at MV.
Well, we just got okay to show one of these to the LA public. This is because there is data that is particularly pertinent to LA and our orgs.
This is a one-time-only showing. This special showing is going to be on Sunday, July 31st. It is 3 hours of very inside data so we’ll be starting the event early. Doors open at 1PM. The location is the Universal Hilton (right down from City Walk). You don’t want to miss this. Please spread the work so everyone in LA has a chance to see this once-only briefing!
Mark your calendars and let me know you will attend.”
Hi Thomas.
What’s up my friend?
James, you’ve really nailed it again here.
One very good reference you sent me in search of about this inevitable (and thus fate-sealing for Anti-Leader) characteristic of flows is given clearly in the lecture of October 1952, “Flows”, as one of the Technique 88 Supplemental Series.
And as for the “spooky” part, I’m sure we’re making him feel very entangled.
Good going Dan.
I like it when you play hardball ..
Did I hear that you moved to Sweden or something?
🙂
Tony
I am not a Celebrity. But my PC folder data had sometimes been leaked to non tech people. Basically all staff knew that I am a List One (= hidden evil intentions towards Scientology or parts of). I do not know if that info was true or not. In session I freely communicated things that would sound like me being crazy in a normal conversation. Those data had also been leaked to fellow staff. Thus my fellow staff did think that I am crazy. Those that did that had evil intentions towards me. Those doing that to me and others had been the leading ones that enthusiastically did the heavy ethics stuff like gangbang sec checks. Do not make the mistake that all is DM. Those doing that stuff on a regular control basis are evil themselfs and it is not always that they had been PTS to DM as they might state after they blew.
Jim,
This is a tough one. You make very good sense here. I guess my thought is that Tom Cruise is presently doing massive harm to tons of good people by allowing himself to be utterly irresponsible and blind. Hard for me to say if exposing his session data is a similar overt to what DM is doing to the rest of us now or if it is, perhaps, a serious attention-getter. In other words, if Cruise hears about and recoginizes his own session data being put out on display, he will want some answers from DM, as it is supposed to be priest-penitent only. Hmmmmm………. Mr Cruise might have to wake up to the ugly fact of what DM is doing. I’m thinking it’s a great idea. Ethical, actually, given the extreme circumstances. Plus, being honest, I have this particular human weakness called being thirsty for revenge.
Why will she stand up if you don’t? You can set the example and then she might follow.
As far as the PC folder shit goes, people will rarely see it and you can just tell them it’s the crazy cult that you left. They will understand.
Dan, Jim,
Whenever they do this how about a good law suit? I mean we were all led to believe by the “Priest Penitent Privilage” stamped on our folders and the Auditors Code and hatting as a PC that our session data was sacred. If it shows up somewhere as punitive, then it should be good fodder for a lawsuit, I would think. Even our ethics files had the PPP stamp on them.
ML Tom
It was my pleasure meeting you and Mary Jo too!
Jim what you say is very true. This type of vile character attack was common place around DM in the Sea Org. It is a real shame that he has taken to attacking public individuals in this way.
Truth revealed is a real disenfectant!
Our first love is the love we find in and through our families. Our first love teaches us how to love for the rest of our lives.
A few months ago, I had a conversation with an old friend who is still loyal to the Church of Scientology. Back in the day, she was a Messenger (CMO) on the Apollo. I told her of the stories I’d seen in the media these last two years, spurred by reports of Marty, Mike, Amy, Jeff, and so many others, about violence in the Church.
I then asked her what she had observed herself with her own eyes during the last ten years inside the Church and whether she knew of anything personally of the things that had happened at the Church’s International headquarters during the period described by Marty, Mike, Amy, Jeff, Jackson and others.
She replied, “I don’t care about any of these stories. I saw all that and worse when I was on the Apollo. This is nothing new to me.”
It has taken me several months to realize what she was really saying to me and to herself: “Any past, current and future crimes committed within the Church of Scientology will always be invisible to me because I participated in similar crimes myself. I refuse to acknowledge them and, therefore, they are of no consequence.”
All the old Sea Org members who have here and elsewhere spoken truth to power by simply saying out loud what they saw and did are quite different from my old friend, who wants to be left alone to live her life in peace. She reminds me of Debbie Cook and her thousands of Facebook friends, who are locked in mutual out rudiments of don’t ask, don’t tell.
Toward the end of our conversation, my friend said with some righteous indignation that she doesn’t even look at the Internet. “How can you know if anything you read on a Web site is true?” she said accusatorily.
My friend’s world is shrinking. Her beloved children are young adults who do look at the Internet, newspapers and television. Despite her bravado, she knows her family’s bonds are weakened because of the growing number of things it is no longer OK for them to talk about.
Affinity, reality and communication lead us to love. Applied in reverse, they lead to love’s loss.
Once again, I applaud Sam and Placi for their courage in maintaining the love they created.
JM
Dan’s answer may very well be the tweak we’ve been waiting for. It looks heavy; if Davey continues to reveal confidential pc data we will do the same! But is that an overt?
At first glance it would make us as bad as Davey but what if we don’t do it? Then the celebrities would keep being blackmailed and they’ll have to keep paying for Davey to not reveal their secrets. They’ll continue to live in fear and have to keep flowing power to the implant station to be implanted some more. Every additional million they pay to an SP group adds another overt on their tracks!
The kindest thing you could do for them and a the fastest way to set them free is revealing their secrets so the blackmail is rendered void and their PT financial overts stop. They can’t get out of the trap by themselves otherwise they would have reacted to some of Marty’s subtle hints. Not revealing it forces them deeper into the cult that would for sure reveal it upon departure.
They will sustain damage to their reputation but they can’t sue Dan as it was Davey who ordered the illegal taping and looking in. Dan doesn’t break the auditor’s code as a) he was not the auditor and b) even if he was (like Marty) the revealing is not done for personal gain but for all Dynamics.
We’re in the band of justice as ethics have long since failed and never solved the problem. If we don’t do it, Davey happily continuous the taping and blackmailing of all celebrities, WISE businesses and parishioners.
Of course Davey falls but I like to see it rather sooner than later.
Violation of the sanctity of Confessional is foul and will not be accepted. I doubt there is a court in the world that would uphold it, cit. Menendez – there was a big fight over release of those tapes, and that was in the lay (not religious) world. I wonder how any auditor in the Co$ can remain there. I seem to recall there was once a Catholic Church violation, and I believe the priest was excommunicated, forever barred from offering Confession.
Hilarious!
Some other phrases they might want to look up, clay demo and use in 1,000 sentences if need be:
Human Decency
Friendly Relations
Laws of the Land
Sane Behavior
They also might want to take a gander at:
Orange Jumpsuit
Key to the City (Jail)
When it’s all over they should also familiarize themselves with:
Disposable Henchmen
Treacherous Bedfellow
Playing with Fire/Gonna Get Burned
Stupid is as Stupid does
Flunk
I want my PC folders so I can burn them. Now that the Church has used information from PC folders to defame and harrass, can they really declare that they are confidential and protected documents?
To Placido: I have no interest in your private life. Don’t worry. Your family, friends and fans don’t care.
How did it ever happen that management became senior to tech? Tech – research, C/Sing, auditing, training – is always senior. It is the product line. The ONLY function of management is to ensure that production line is free and clear. Anything else is nuts. (Please notice how I bother to mince my words.)
The loser we are all speaking about does not CARE!!! He has his diehards and he will die with them, end of story. He will do whatever it takes to convince the diehards he is the man and he is directing the church in the right direction.
u know what i mean folks?
Very interesting, Mike.
Miscavige’s buddies publish many tabloid kind of “2D”-stories about you guys but nbody came forward talking about DM and what’s going on with his 2D except that his wife appears not living with him.
No woman came forward saying he made a pass at her. Is he that kind of a saint on the 2D?
I met Charlie and his wife – they’re the nicest neighbors and typical friendly people you would find in the US of A! He works on boats and she loves to garden. Even Chiquita runs over when she sees Charlie as he usually has treats for her in his pocket and to get her ears scratched – it’s very cute.
To get him, and easygoing man, all riled up and coming out with the idea of Ass busters and talking about it to reporters is something else!
This is simply the direct and compulsive product of the Mighty Midget Madman Miscavige, top reverse tech dog. I do agree with M&M as the next action is bound to be more insane and non-survival, the actions of stopping himself from doing more harm to others.
Triple play is very rare in the ball game, but Quadruple play?
If no-one is supposed to make eye contact with herr mudslinger how is he going to cope with all those people looking at him at the next event?
Scarey for him.
He might start blurting out stuff, go into a rage, rip off his face mask and reveal his true identity.
“Aaaarrrgh, he’s a HUMAN!!! Aaaarrrgh!!! We’ve been tricked!!! Run, run for your lives!!!
The faithful panicked and ran into the streets, screaming.
He shouted after them, “Stop! Stop! Stop! I haven’t finished implanting you! Damn these martians and FBI agents! You try to help them and this is how they respond!”
Great post JM.
MOW
Hi Thomas, welcome aboard.
Good to have you speaking out.
It is always good to have another voice and another independent viewpoint.
Eric S
Thomas,
Welcome! It’s really great to see you come out in the sunshine, an action which really forwards LRH and his legacy; thereby decreasing Dear Loser’s power and sphere of influence of pure madness.
It’s your call.
“Never fear to hurt another in a just cause.”
Dan,
Though the gesture and challenge is admirable, perhaps we would not want to practice those which are against codes and stoop down to the basest levels of insanity.
Our practice and application of The Way to Happiness might be more beneficial as it’s something Dear Loser and his minions don’t do!
Dan
He’s already posted data from Amy’s, Marty’s, and Mike’s . Isn’t it obvious from the Freedom Mag articles? And I know he’s posted crap from mine and Joy’s. So what are you waiting for? Rip Miscavige another asshole. And as for Cruise? There’s a boom waiting in the wings to be lowered on him as well.
Michael
“Makes me believe in karmic retribution”
Possibly, what we are dealing with is more than the mere madness of a man, but true pure unrefined evil.
The sort of evil you are told doesn’t really exist , and if it does indeed exist then true good must be there to balance it.
That’s what LRH was fundementally saying, he witnessed something that really scared him, buried in the Tech is knowledge of Good and Bad, a sort of emergency information pack.
“In Case of Emergency Break Glass!”
dankoon
Dan
I understand you may be more than a little “sick of this crap”, me too, but there are some places it is not wise to go.
I am hoping that this post was generated in a moment of frustration and anger, and although it may reflect your momentary state of mind, that it does not reflect your true core values.
Here is my opinion.
I personally have a real issue with the stance of “tit for tat” in this issue of revealing confidential session data. I do not care who it is, or what they have done. One cannot sensibly defend it on one hand and abuse it on the other.
If the “sanctity of the session” is not maintained you are placing the effectiveness of auditing at risk. To the degree that one does not feel “safe” with the auditor or the session or the confidentiality of what may be revealed, the Preclear will have diminished results.
Besides, Tom Cruise, whatever he may or may not have done, should not be placed at ransom in order to get at David Miscavoige, not in this case, and not in this way.
I am not defending Tom Cruise or David Miscavige, or anyone else, in this. I am appealing to any and all who love Scientology, and have experienced the gains of auditing, to hold fast the confidential sanctity of the “auditing session”.
I do not consider this negotiable.
Eric S
Matry,
Damned if you are not one of the smoothest operators around that I’ve ever seen.
I know you have RIGHT (Justice Et Al) on your side and all but no one has ever yet accomplished what you have before in going up against this reptilian practice that Scientology has become, to say noihting of what has happened to the good in other religions by assholes such as DM). I know there are certain factors present for you that were not for others like the Internet and people’s use of it.
But all that really doesn’t matter. The point is, you’ve beautifully siezed the moment, along with its present window of opportunity and honestly moved mountains.
I like the Hell out of you!
“What’s strange to me is them spending all this money on this. How much good works could they do instead? It’s supposed to be a church. Why aren’t they doing things to help people?” she asked.
———————————————
Yep. Foot bullets? How ’bout Foot thermonuclear warheads.
In my view, the purpose of the First Amendment was to ensure people would not be harrassed and persecuted due to their religious beliefs.
DM twists and uses the First Amendment so he CAN harrass and persecute people.
Debbie, Debbie, Debbie. Is your livelihood really more important to you than your personal integrity? You could bring so many of the ignorant into the light, but you chose to stay silent. How can you sit by, watch, and by your silence advocate what is going on within the C of S today? What were you doing all those years? Did you not hear LRH?
Thomas/MOW,
Welcome to the Best Anchor Points on the ‘net! 🙂
Thank you for being You!
ARC,
Me 🙂 ( a villager with torches to bear “anchored” around Davey’s Castle Of Suppression)
Brilliant.
Gotta love that spin!
J/M,
Your wisdom borne through love and ARCU.
L,
K.O.F. 🙂
Remember in the 90’s when pc folder data was used in the Saturday Toasting briefings (mislabeled as Source night) at the Int Base?
The purpose was ostensibly to put ethics in, but grew crazier and nuttier, introducing seances and real musical chairs, with the current result of the hole and Int Base being 1/3rds of what it was.
Thus, this “successful” Mighty Mad Midget action is being exported to the whole world! How many will stand up, come out and be counted and say NO?
oops… typo: K.O.F. should be K.A.F. (insert chagrin face)
😆
+1 JM
Wow!
Well, this is the straw. Lots of straws, but this one not only broke its back, it killed the damn thing. So I’m changing my name from “sidelined” to “off the fence”. Because of the massive amounts of incredibly immature actions of the COS, hell I don’t even need a doubt formula. BLown by inspection.
Attacking international stars?!!!! What!!!! Hey Miscabbage, can you say “bad P.R.” Good grief!!! This is Placido Domingo’s son!! The WORLDS most famous tenor!! What a fucking idiot!!! (excuse the french but no other word would suffice). Thanks for tearing down the only hope man has. We’ll get it back up again. But you are just one stupid, suppressive M.F.
What are you thinking?????!!! Boggles the mind.
+1
Sue,
Right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance_(Catholic_Church)
[Under the heading “Seal of confession.”]
“Priests, and anyone who witnesses or overhears the confession (say, an interpreter, caregiver, or aide of a person with a disability), may not reveal what they have learned during confession to anyone, even under the threat of their own death or that of others.”
“However, in 1996, an attorney in Portland, Oregon secretly recorded a confession without the knowledge of the priest or the penitent involved. This led to official protests by then local Archbishop Francis George and the Holy See. The tape has since been sealed (and later destroyed), and the Federal Court has since ruled that the taping was in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, and ordered an injunction against any further tapings.”
Carcha.
Marty and Mike,
I love this statement from the article on Caller.com:
“The Church of Scientology says the film crews, though composed of self-identifying church members, are an independent group not associated with the Church of Scientology.”
Seriously!?
If the Cof$ says “…not associated…”, per the above statement, but they are paying them through their legal agents, isn’t that an association by definition? And if “church members” are reporting back and receiving compenstation ($ and continual “blessings” from the self-anointed Pope (Person Of Perpetual Evil) of Scientology, David Miscavige isn’t that being “associated”?
Sheesh! What ignorance and what “rectal-loving ostriches” Davey and his League of Leeches emulate on a daily basis.
Windwalker/Eric —
I concur. Non negotiable. However, just saying what Dan said about being ordered to WATCH what should have been a sacred session between auditor and Tom Cruise should send enough shivers down a few spines.
It’s imperative to remember that from my knowledge of “karma” — the seeds that you might have planted years ago need not necessarily come to fruition as a tree (for example) because through the years – the other necessary elements were lacking. Sun, water, plant food etc
However, conversely … although someone didn’t start the overt chain (ie. watching a confidential session on the orders of a senior) — the “karma” could come to bite the person who then waters, brings sunshine and plant food to those seeds.
It’s NEVER a good idea to do something from the perspective of revenge or “gotcha”
At least not as far as I’ve determined in my own experience.
WH
Songbird – yes it is the “Or . . . not?” as you stated.
He never did want the orgs to fill up. Witness the Ideal Org project. So his active and dedicated efforts to destroy the religion to cover his overts in his recent past and distant past is also the same path he is on to destroy himself. As was mentioned a long time ago on this blog, it seems he has elected Marty as his executioner.
He is flaying around wildly and in pain.
What I’m saying is that the bad PR is helping him with his goals of destroying all around him – the Tech, Admin, LRH and all people physically around him, himself, and those that still give him power in any way.
So what we consider bad PR is one thing. We also need to move on with our lives and for those not yet up the bridge we need to get moving again. Some have been establishing the means to do so. I thank you and hope to partake of your services.
david
Gary:
Here is the real joke. There is not a person who would go withing 100 miles of Marty without express approval of OSA. ANd there isnt anyone in OSA stupid enough to take ANY action wth regard to Marty without clearing it through Warren McShane. And McShane is incapable of making any decision concerning Marty without clearance from The Poop of Scientology himself. This is how it goes in the Vulture Culture….
But sooner or later, their lies are going to be exposed and they will eat their lies once again.
Mike
Wonderful. I was tempted to head to DC but did watch online for awhile.
A few friends are there for the whole program. And one of my very lucky friends will be with His Holiness the 17th Karmapa in Woodstock NY this week.
When he asks his followers to do something it is always for the benefit of others. Never for himself.
WH
“You are creating an island of friendliness, decency and succor in the sea of a violent world. You do it by using the policy and tech that it took half a century to find and develop.” “And it will happen because you took this advice, these PLs and this tech and used them purely and as they were intended – to succor man from the gathering darkness and decay of this earth’s civilization.” LRH RJ 28
This has long ago disappeared, instead it is a place to be feared and moreso now knowing your most private PC folder data can and will be exposed to the world should you commit the CRIME of refusing to disconnect from your ex-wife and beloved children! LRH’s tech is far from being used purely – and this one action alone being committed by DM will do more damage to current and future enrollment in the Church than can be imagined. HUGE COSTLY MISTAKE and unbelievable suppressive!
With great sadness this is the 1st time I’m admitting to it – but the CofM is dead but joyfully LRH’s Scientology is alive, well and growing in the independent field!!!
Miami New Times
Placido Domingo Jr. of Miami Battles With Scientology
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/07/placido_domingo_jr_of_miami_ba.php
.
I read DMinerva’s rantings, linked from the Village Voice article. OMG OMG OMG. And then I read the comments. Same writing style, same venom spewed over and over. Even when they try to be from non English speaking countries, there are only a few deliberate misspellings or incorrect sentence compositions. Anyone with one single brain cell can see right through it.
Same way anyone can see through the so called Squirrel Buster Productions’ activities. Let’s see, they want to expose a man for his “unlawful lifestyle”. Then the correct action would be to call the correct authorities or sue. Who is the target audience the finished film would be shown to and how would they benefit from it? And same thing with the Lynch “journalism” farce. Who’s interested in how a person eats his/her food in a restaurant or packs their groceries. Duh.
Me thinks it’s time for someone who has any kind of comm line to Tom Cruise and John Travolta to put some pressure on them to come off the fence and use their gravitas to make this stop. For the sake of Monique, the citizens of the Bay and Rinder’s neighborhood and for the sake of what we hold more sacred than anything, that what we tell/have told an auditor will not be used against us – never, never, never.
Great deal Dan!
keepontruckin says ”How can you sit by, watch, and by your silence advocate what is going on within the C of S today?” To answer your question… she still in the wrong side of the fence!
Scroll down her wall and you will discover that she is an Ida Squirrelbuster’s fan
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000497924308&sk=wall
IMO, Being tag as friends and support this insane group; http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002540145473&sk=wall is an indicator of who you are! Obviously, they are not Scientologist cause being so, required just a tiny bit of LOOKING on the internet to really find out who are those crazy Squireelbuster’s people.
Have you looked at http://www.freedommag.org lately? The only “human rights news” they seem to be reporting on is “there are a lot of bad people out there and they are all conspiring against us”.
Does this ring a bell, anyone…?
“12. The SP is sure everyone is against him personally and if others became more powerful they would dispose of him.”
Here is my letter to Mr. Wiseman. The email wouldn’t go through, so I’ll post it here for whichever OSA bot might find it.
Dear Mr. Wiseman,
Please read the following policy excerpt written by LRH:
From: HCO POLICY LETTER OF 27 APRIL 1969 “DEATH WISH”
“Old Schopenhauer the German philosopher used to talk about a condition or state of mind known as the “Death Wish”.
We have noted this in Dianetic days as Succumb Postulates…
…Where a person in a group, whether a government, a society or an org, does not make any intelligent effort to wear his hat he threatens his own and the group’s survival to greater or lesser degree.
We could figure out and correct all this by auditing but that is not the point. The point is that a person has his nerve pretending to be a part of a group, accepting a post and then running a Death Wish by not doing his job.
Such a person is covertly murdering his fellows.
Only this phenomenon prevents a group from becoming a true group.
L. RON HUBBARD Founder
Now ask yourself, Mr. Wiseman, what is the hat of RTC?
My understanding is that RTC and especially the head of it, are fully responsible for standard application of LRH’s tech for the benefit of the PC or Pre-OT. Am I missing something?
It is my reality that LRH was very correct when he said in KSW 1, “The only thing you can upbraided for by students or pcs is “no results.” Trouble spots occur only where there are “no results.”
Your church is being upbraided like never before in its history. Is Miscavige really wearing his hat? Or is he doing something else?
When my wife and I left in 2007 it was for one reason only, Gross out tech at Flag. A hundred thousand dollars and two years wasted. And RTC REFUSED to even look at the folders when I requested it. Two dedicated scientologists disgusted with the church was the product. What hat is Miscavige actually wearing? It sure isn’t anything to do with ensuring standard tech is delivered at Flag.
What exactly does running a “don’t talk to so-and-so…or else!” campaign on facebook have to do with YOUR hat?
How exactly do absurd paddle boat raids on the Rathbun’s align with LRH tech or policy on YOUR hat?
Whether you are aware of it or not sir, you are making Scientology a laughing stock to the general public and you are overtly or covertly running a death wish, not just on your church, but on the subject and on LRH. You are also destroying your own previous hard work and reputation in the process. Are these intelligent efforts to wear your hat? How intelligent do you actually feel while executing these stupid programs? And, who ordered them?
Sincerely hoping you will LOOK.
Les Warren
Class V, OT V, OEC/FEBC
Along with the above articles I read the recent Time magazine article on Janet Reitman’s new book. She said, “What they’re worried about, far more than what we think of them, is what their own members think of them.” Based on their absolutely insane actions, I believe this. No group would act so crazy if they cared at all about their PR. But, if DM doesn’t realize his flock will be reading today’s on-line articles then he’s either on drugs or should be. More will leave. There is no stopping it.
One thing does need to happen though; the IRS needs to investigate this cult with a fine-tooth comb and cancel their tax exempt status. It’s an absolute disgrace that this has been allowed to continue.
Did you get all that Shorty? Read it again, you nasty little shrimp. Why don’t you take your shoe lifts & muscle tee’s along with your Napoleon complex and just leave.
“The point is that a person has his nerve pretending to be a part of a group, accepting a post and then running a Death Wish by not doing his job.
Such a person is covertly murdering his fellows.
Only this phenomenon prevents a group from becoming a true group”
It’s all in the Standard Tech somewhere!
(DM) Foot Nukes + Napalm +Self Harm Syndrome = Lethal Cocktail!
For Marty Rathbun:
You should play this song on a loudspeaker on the Int Base when Miscavige is being hauled off in handcuffs.
Agreed. Bruce Wiseman, have you no shame?
+ 1 “you nasty little shrimp” lol
Bryan U,
Is this tight knit crew going supernova? All this gravity collapsing in, making itself more and more dense until it explodes outward?
I was just thinking about the same thing. I think it’s an OSA stat – “column inches of theta press” or something. The stat of column inches must be straight up and vertical for sure! Hilarious that DM would promote this as a “win”! Just too funny. Mind you, all the recent press, in the parallel universe of DM and his Stasi is all win win win! They’ll probably count Janet Reitman’s book as “the greatest outreach action in decades”.
Send him this as a private message on FB. I sent him one there earlier albeit not as composed as yours. 🙂
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000772225418
Jim,
I just looked up “Minerva” and found out she was the Roman goddess of wisdom associated with Athena. Is this another alter-is since LRH had the Athena?
Eric,
And what will differentiate the Independent’s use of the Auditor’s Code if we feel the need or right to violate it as a tool of social war?
The sanctity of a pc’s data and trust? As you said, not negotiable.
Synthia,
Clay demos? That’s old tech. A student doesn’t get sufficient reality with clay demo. DM has discovered that sculpting the ideas in special marble supplied only by his special tradesmen will get the desired results. And because the results are so powerful, he only will sell this marble to those who have become Patronius Efflatigus Meritorious Begonias.
Hi Sinar.
I concede that this is the correct stance. We can play hardball without “becoming” like mud cabbage. Let’s take the high road, the more decent road.
Plus 100!
Eric S,
You and Jim nailed this.
This is a damn hard to resist temptation to respond in kind, exactly what DM and his collusion of seals wants.
Bruce Pratt
Where is his wife?
Where is his wife? Is she alive? Running around a palm tree? In the hole?
Where is his wife? Is she on the base? Is she in a box? With a fox? Does she eat green eggs and ham?
Maybe she wears his socks. Where is his wife? Is she with Pat? Is she with Annie? Is she carrying rocks? Is she in the lake?
INTERESTING — the article about Placido written on the anti-Marty site has been taken down.
Let’s see — what could have gotten dm to act? The threat from Dan? The Village Voice interest? Hmmm — what could it be?
It couldn’t be remorse because IF it were remorse dm would order that ENTIRE website and all it’s mirrors taken down.
And – I see that they are all up and running.
In Buddhist cosmology, there are 6 realms. The “god realm” is where gods reside. They live for countless lifetimes and their every wish is fulfilled. Rich beyond measure, indulgent to the extreme always forgetting that even here each god EVENTUALLY dies.
And it is said that the suffering the soon-to-die-god feels is immeasurably greater than anything we humans feel. They take about 200 years to die and as they are dying, they smell of death and are shunned.
I wonder how dm feels just about now.
Can’t be good.
WH
Bob Dobbs
Quote: “Does that make him(Tom Cruise) complicit, that he is not aware of it? ”
You bet it does … and don’t think for a minute he doesn’t know about it.
Quote: “Does that make Tom an SP, to be attacked and ridiculed and have his session info leaked?”
As per Miscavige’s new rules – Yes. Is it Scientology – NO!
Quote: “So, Tom Cruise is being the best Scientologist he knows how to be.”
Not even close … he would have to eat one heckuva big plate of crow to confront where he is at.
Quote: “I met Tom a couple of times in the 90s, and spent almost zero time around him. But he seemed like a beautiful guy with a very clean space to me.”
What?? 10-20 years ago??
/facepalm
Call the police! Is she dead? Did he kill her? Where did he hide her body? Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!Call the police!
My apologies, George. You were betrayed. You experienced some serious out ethics behavior. Not sure when this was, but it was and is inexcusable. As ethics is most important at the top and the top has been corrupted for quite some time, thanks to Dear Leader, the reptilian predator, I understand all too well how some of those we trusted betrayed us.
We do build a world with broken straws. How broken is perhaps the misestimation in all of scientology.
Bruce Pratt
It was so nice to meet many of you at the party. I loved every minute & every comm cycle I had with each one of you.
Regarding revealing people’s confidential data, another point is that people revealing data that was told to them during an MAA interview or an auditing session, they are, in my opinion, really hurting themselves & reducing any chances they might have at ever going up the Bridge. They are also impeding the progress of others who cross flow them doing it & will be very hesitant in the future to seek their help or come clean. It’s actually a huge overt accross several Dynamics.
How do you think they will feel about relieving themself of their “overts & W/H” next time they are in front of someone? They probably will withhold themselves even more than ever now. Truly, I think they are building their own little hell.
We in the Independant field have so far a huge advantage as we haven’t done that as far as I know. It is safe to communicate. Lets keep it that way. The Church as shown more than once that it is not safe to communicate to them.
Marie-Joe
Sorry I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments so this might have already been brought up.
My comment is awaiting moderation. Perhaps, it it not moderate?
JM — thank you for such an insightful, spiritual comment. So apropos to why we’re here (and on a Sunday.)
Bruce Pratt
Quote: ” Because of the massive amounts of incredibly immature actions of the COS, hell I don’t even need a doubt formula. BLown by inspection.”
Man, busted a gut on that one. 🙂
But, your are totally correct – I have never seen such lousy PR Area Control in 40 years.
Simply a dreadful strategy, foot-nukes by the dozen, and they carry on pulling the same dumb moves.
Miscavige is soooo out of touch with reality, and his cohorts are so so deluded, that they simply will run the whole organization into the ground.
Hopefully, the general public will understand that in no way, are actions such as these EVER condoned by any REAL Scientologist.
They are the work of a group of insane individuals.
Gary,
Does Dear Loser and his Church Lie? Does TD and Dear Loser’s personal lawyer Monique Yingling lie when they state there is no disconnection on national television?
From the San Antonio article linked in this blog:
“Bart Parr, one of several Californians on Squirrel Busters assignment, insisted the mission is purely journalistic and not harassment.
“We’re here to shoot a documentary of Mr. Rathbun and his activities. We don’t follow him around, he follows us around,” he said last week. “The Squirrel Busters are trying to show what people like Mr. Rathbun, who are squirrels, are doing.” ‘
They came into town and are there video taping Marty following them around??? ROFLMAO!
You think the Mad Midget Miscavige and his Minions lie? It seems to me that word is the stable datum of wicked Dear Loser of North Gilman and his flying monkeys!
Already copied in anticipation of this act of admission of guilt.
lol
Just went to http://martyrathbunblog.com/tag/mark-rathbun-is-a-squirrel/
and yes, it’s down. But they’re still bashing Jason Beghe,
1st page. As long as they keep bashing good people and forcing disconnection, I’m out. (Not to mention changing tech, slapping people around, charging so much $ as to be nonviable etc etc
+2 “you nasty little shrimp.” He’s not even worth calling him a “jumbo” shrimp! So little. So not worth it. :0
+1 on reflection. I still admire Dan for standing up and saying no to the insanity.
Radar Online – Placido Domingo Jr: ‘I’m Being Attacked By Scientology’
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-says-scientology-attacking-him
.
Very well said, Les. Bruce (not so) Wiseman is still wearing his rose-koolaid-colored glasses when it comes to awareness of the “group” he is “supporting” (killing is more like it).
I was counting on you:) ==
Love,
WH
Really Dan,
I respect you but I don’t see that 2 wrongs necessarily make a right.
As far as I concerned it’s a Q&A with *evil* to even suggest revealing that.
It makes us as evil as they are!
Tom Cruise is a fool and a tool. And, he has been negligent for failing Due Diligence as to what his donations to the IAS have been funding.
He certainly deserves the same treatment that DM has been dishing out with Cruise’s money.
That said, the Independents are already winning by taking the high road. You could easily lose what you’ve gained.
Dan, that is nonsenses.
Don’t ever compromise your integrity.
There’s nothing to fear, in god’s time…
This is an old track. In Theta or God’s good hands.
No reason to get too HE&R.
I had an ex-girlfriend try to blackmail me by threatening to out some embarrassing personal information to my mother.
I responded by warning my mother about what she was going to say and outing myself. Mom didn’t bat an eye and the threat was POOF, gone.
Point is, the only weapon that DM has is fear. Those who are still in are *afraid* of what might happen.
The solution to blackmail is bravery. Those who mind about such childish bullshit don’t matter. And those who really matter won’t mind.
If Tom Cruise or John Travolta were to have their secrets come out, I doubt that there would be any significant backlash from their fan base.
But, they’re not brave.
I should add this, part of our [sic] plight…
“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer”
Being a FB “fan” of the “Squirrel Busters” is not necessarily the same as supporting their actions. Just sayin’-don’t play the “Disconnection” game based on assumptions. Leave that for the Kool-Aid drinkers.
Hollywood online Tabloid Radar Online picks up story Sunday night:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-says-scientology-attacking-him
Celebs read this stuff ’cause it about them. The only way to stop the Placido story about the Church’s unconscionable use of his confessional information from spinning out of control is for someone like Tom Cruise to stand up and deny there have been any confidential disclosures of PC folders and his close friend David Miscavich has assured him this is a fact. Absolutely.
Like that is going to happen. Right.
Without something like this, it will continue to spiral out of control.
Bruce,
Hey, whaddabout me? I’m feeling hurt and abused and ignored and left out and all that horrible stuff – I posted a couple of times about confessionals being sacrosanct!! (Sniffle.)
An SP “wins” if he can get you to compromise your own ethics. And that tears all of down a little more. If the foul actions of the Co$ can persuade the FZ or Indies to violate something as fundamental as the Auditor’s Code and the historic sanctity of the confessions made by an individual in his attempt to rectify his past regrettable deeds or sins and improve himself … then the forces of suppression have succeeded in truly destroying the basis of auditing: the admiration of the communication line.
There are people who will go to jail or die, rather than divulge the content of confessions. And the society today takes the confidentiality of the pyschologist / patient relationship very seriously.
I’m just preaching to the choir – it’s safer than preaching to demons – but we do need our strengths, so I chose to validate those!
The only real power there is, comes about through ethics. Understand ethics thoroughly, and one will greatly advance one’s understanding of life and power.
Carcha.
And another celeb site picks up Placido story 30 min ago… these sites are in need of content for their readers. DM provides it in spades.
http://celebs.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979606512
Interesting — the page about Sam has disappeared. Not so lucky DeepFax.
Anyway — perhaps by the end of the night – the sites will be gone.
Lots of slander on these sites, lots of session data appearing OUT of session. Lots of vitriol.
Seems like some hasty actions are being taken to cover tracks.
Didn’t anyone tell him you can’t cover what was public domain. You can take it down but you can’t make what was once there disappear.
Opps.
WH
Your Hat. love it
Welcome Thomas !
Great first post !
It is Miscavige who is committing the daily crimes, having turned the Church into a CULT and a business $$$$money guzzling operation ~~ while he spins it to make Facebook police we “hate the Church”.
Warm welcome 🙂 🙂 🙂
Forget sending a private message how about posting it on his wall so all can see it!
+2
Dan
I understand your feelings about the outrageous overts (and illegal acts) involved in Miscavige violating confessional confidentiality.
Here is some data.: (BTW, I would not write what follows if I thought there was, in THIS instance, a meaningful legal sit; I am providing the data on general principal)
Whenever we say “If you do ‘x’, I will do ‘Y” or “Unless you do ‘w.’ I will do ‘z,” we have to make sure that we are not committing an extortion or some other illegal act..
Saying, “Unless you pay me that $1,000 you owe me, I will sue you” is OK. BUT, if we say, “Unless you pay me, I will tell your wife about Fife,” is likely an extortion . . . even if the fellow owes us the money and he has been with Fife.
DM is MOTIVATOR HUNGRY. So, he will latch onto the slightest motivator and blow it out of proportion. That is no reason to be “careful of” him. But, it still plays into him hands to give him motivators. Particularly pointless motivators, that are symbolic only, like tussling with his agents, making threats (when one is not sure they are legal), etc.
There are many ways to be at cause, that don’t provide an opening for DM to use our actions against us.
Plus, the confessional is sacrosanct.
That said, thanks for all you have done and that you are doing for Scientology (that’s US).
Defender of Theta
BTW, not only does DM’s improper use of confessional information violate:
1. the penitent’s expectation of confidentiality – priest/penitent confidentiality, and
2. the privacy of the penitent
it violates the WRITTEN CONTRACT that the organization signs with the PC.
In that contract, drafted by the organization, it pledges to keep ALL records of spiritual progress, files. etc. ‘INVIOLATE” (the exact word in the contract for many years).
There are likely other legal violations involved in the release of or improper use of ANY confessions, whether in session or to an MAA.
BTW, saying “I am not auditing you”, does not, in my opinion, mean that the confessions are not confessions, subject to confidentiality. It means that confessions are not ACTIONABLE, meaning that you can be subject to ecclesiastical discipline, including the assignment of penance. That is a different subject than publishing the confession.
Defender of Theta
Beeeeeeee yeeeeeeeee yutiful!
windhorse
Yes, I understand your concept of karma to some degree, but I tend to go with the concept of personal responsibility and the responsibility for the sane and optimum creation of one’s own dynamics. I see the concept of “karma” working in this wise. You truly do “reap what you sow” but I feel the reason why is that everyone ends up living in the universe that they create. If one creates or condones a universe where evil and wrong abound, and he does nothing to repair it, he will, of course, live in a world of evil and wrong. I consider there is no other entity or force senior to oneself as a being. In my opinion a beings own concept of honor and fairness and his transgressions against these that are his “karma” (or “the effect of his own cause”.)
But back to the issue at hand.
We cannot stoop to throwing away our integrity because we are “pissed off”. We need to take responsibility for our parts in allowing it to get to this point and “as-is” the problem, not add to it with our own betrayals.
This is why I say releasing session data “is not negotiable”. I will not do it, and I will not condone it, and I will do what I can to prevent it.
I do not want to create a world or an atmosphere where auditing cannot occur or is severely hampered.
This is a good part of why I am here, and a good part of why I work to bring David Miscavige and his regime down.
I do not want to live in his world. It is not at all to my liking.
Eric S
Awesome!
I posted a longer piece on this, above, but as a response to an earlier post. I thought it bears repetition:
Saying “I am not auditing you”, does not, in my opinion, mean that the confessions are not confessions, subject to confessional confidentiality.
It means that confessions are not ACTIONABLE, meaning that you can be subject to ecclesiastical discipline, including the assignment of penance.
That is a different subject than publishing the confession and thereby breaching priest/penitent.
.
Defender of Theta
It’s all about the $ ! . From what I heard, she was bought off. A rumor but makes sense.
inviting the sheep to the shearing again
Oh No They Didn’t!
Scientology is “scary and pathetic”
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/60946521.html
Comments open.
Dude (dudette?) — unintentional oversight? Vagaries of this blog and my participation? You handle the fact that these actions were out-ethics, squirrel, bat-shit crazy, anathema to the actual creeds and codes of Scientology, regardless of the flow they were on? And I am sorry for any and all of these egregious transgressions that happened. I signed on for KSW and attempt that daily. I like your position. So I now humbly seek your acceptance of my apology for my oversight.
I need to try preaching to demons. May be better odds than preaching to KA consumers.
Bruce Pratt
I agree with everything you’ve written here MF.
O.K., I’ll call the police.
That would be great but you have to be his friend on FB in order to have that privilege but, anyone can send him a PM until he blocks them of course.
+2
Thank you all so much for your warm welcomes. I have enjoyed reading your posts over the many months.
In military planning, “Never underestimate your enemy” is stressed.
DM has many resources. However, he is not a Scientologist.
We are.
We will win.
The only questions are “How rapidly?” and “How much more collateral damage (to the reputation of the Tech, LRH, the brand “Scientology” etc.) will there be?
Our speed of victory will be determined solely by our application of the Tech and not getting dragged off into the HE&R of the game.
Master of War
Re the idea of revealing Tom Cruise’s withholds gotten off in session as a means of trying to get DM to stop revealing other people’s withholds gotten off in session: I want no part of it. I will not stoop down to DM’s level or go into his valence. There are plenty of ways to handle DM and he is doing plenty to destroy himself, though it is taking some time.
I want the Confessional to be confidential. I myself want to feel safe to get off withholds and I don’t want the status of a Confessional to be abused any more than it already has. So I will not contribute to its destruction.
When we can hold our heads up high with a clean heart, that is how we remain strong.
Dan, I don’t mean to insult you and I respect you very much, I just think this is definitely the wrong way to go about it in this case.
Dave
M,
As you know, those at the lowest reaches of the Tone Scale will reverse things to gain maximal enturbulation. Minerva is a case in point. I suppose in the long run it was the absence of admiration of the depths that has kept them afloat. Of course, in those depths they’ll take any admiration they can get and if that means that properly due LRH, or even a symbol such as the Athena, then they’ve gone way past any compunction.
Vic,
Send me an email. You and I got flow some power across some high speed lines my man!
In order to find the article Minerva was ordered to take down, read the cached version. Google caches everything once posted.
[url]http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PwzFtojoPnEJ:martyrathbunblog.com/mark-rathbun-article/marty-rathbun%E2%80%99s-hero-placebo-domingo/+placebo+domingo&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com[/url]
It has to be read to be believed…
Hi Mr. Fancy
I get your point! You maybe right, she probably kept her enemies closer??
My intent was not based on bringing some dissension.
I don’t feel playing a disconnection game…I think it is good to know who is who, where they stand for and what they have become!
Bob Dobbs,
You may have met Tom Cruise a couple of times, but you have no clue who he has become since you have last met him in 1990s. Since you don’t know much about he TC and DM relationship and how TC is operating in DM’s valance in PT, I suggest that you don’t defend TC.
Thanks!
Bryon,
Believe me mate, I understand wanting to take the flow to him, hard. But what we have in Scientology are new tools for a new game. I have never, and will never reveal anything gotten off to me in a session for the very cogent reason that I was there in that session as a terminal for another being to release that restrained evil. It IS released and gone as far as I’m concerned.
Tom M,
I thought about this and it is real to me that a lawsuit on this point at this time is exactly what David Miscavige craves – CRAVES. It’s a motivator.
I won’t give it to him. Nope, I’m just gonna let that rubber band go and it’s Godspeeding its way back to him.
This travesty that is David Miscavige as a ‘Scientologist’ is way over. He had his chance to study, to apply, to get case gain with Scientology. Well, he didn’t, so he’ll continue to suffer.
Bob,
I agree with you on revealing any session data for any person. It is repugnant to me and I will have no part of it.
Tom Cruise is not the squeaky clean guy that you may have met some years back.
He has positioned himself apparently thusly in a hierarchy of ‘power’ as a ‘Scientologist’: LRH, then DM, then Tom Cruise.
This guy has sucked the Kool-aid decanter dry and lit a match to get the fumes. He’s lost his freakin’ noodle. Hopefully he’ll find it again and get back to that being you recognized and out of David Miscavige’s lunatic valence.
Yeah Sinar, this is a wonderful example of Dave Tech (c) (TM). I’m sure he’ll have no trouble protecting those marks as any sentient being wants nothing to do with this shit.
Tom,
🙂
Not knowing Virginia Stewart personally but myself being very familiar with what your average church member (Class V staff and public) thinks, I wouldn’t be surprised if she really believes what she is saying. That’s what I would have said, and felt, no less than two years ago.
Karen,
Some of the folks over at the Anonymous site WhyWeProtest.net have posted a screen captured image of the original at the following URL:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/placido-domingo-jr-vs-cos-facebook-police.90828/#post-1812829
The purpose of posting this link is not to defame Placido Domingo, Junior — but to provide evidence, which “Minerva” tried to destroy.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Erwin, the celebrities are responsible for their own condition. Breaking the Priest/Parishioner privilege for a “good cause” is still breaking it. How do you think DM and his crew are justifying it? By saying that they are warning the good citizens of the world against the evils of [Marty/Mike/Karen/Pacido/Dan/You/Me… Insert name here]
Sorry, the bigger overt is to ruin the credibility and sanctity of the session.
Dan, this is not a good idea. DM is on his way out, and frankly, the only standard-bearer for Scientology is the Independents. Session data is private, period.
Here, here! Well said, sir!
Thought I’d chime in here regarding what was written about Placido by the Church. DM amongst other areas, is completely batshit crazy on the 2nd dynamic and this has a trickle down effect into the staff and public. The Man eliminated 1/2 the 2D for Sea Org Members- no children- for God’s sake. Maybe that overt was the start. Continuing with fascination and obsession with homosexuality. (Re how he torments ED Int and Mark Yager with accusations). Tearing apart husbands and wives. And there does seem to be a lot of mention of out 2D or irregular 2d in declares and such. And the attention paid to Masturbation. this is all 2nd Dynamic craziness coming from the top.
Well done Jim on connecting the dots re the fact that Int Sea Members have been experiencing this abuse for decades.
I’m just wondering how fucked in the head do you have to be to read something like this without thinking, “Wow-the author is a total douchebag.”
This reflects far worse on the author than the person they’re trying to trash; pretty obvious to us “Wogs”. I can’t imagine that very many Scientologists actually read this stuff, do they? Who are they writing this for-I mean, how many people are going to see it? Wogs aren’t going to listen to this, and I thought Scientologists were discouraged from getting on the Internet?
Karen, I read it earlier today and to tell you the truth I have never seen such vile putrid hate in all my life. Good lord, I was in the military and never saw such angry foam from the mouth. The person who wrote that has never talked to Jr, never got in comm to find out if he is a groovy person or not. Just attack attack attack because the Poop of Scientology said so.
What a contrivance from the consumed minds of OSA. .
I agree with you Dave.
Revealing confessional formulary given in a session or even in an interview under priest penitent privilege is the nadir of that irredeemably corrupt entity calling itself the quote Church of Scientology unquote.
It is completely evil since it is basically black mail and extortion by any other name and is therefore a control mechanism plain and simple.
Yet it is what we have come to expect from degraded beings and the SPs in charge of them.
Let us not stoop to their depraved level.
George,
That is BS. If you want to get to OT, find an Indy auditor that can get you going again. On one of the issues you read along the way you will find out that even if your needle did RS, it is irrelevant. So either way, whether this was an outright lie or even if it wasn’t, don’t let it stop you.
Try reading The Iron Door by Thoughtful Steve on scientology-cult.com. IMHO it is the best post on the net yet on Scn. Hope that inspires you to get going towards YOUR goals again.
“…and this one action alone being committed by DM will do more damage to current and future enrollment in the Church than can be imagined”
Too true, but then that is exactly what McMinimum wants. As psycho as he is, he does know what he is doing: destroying Scientology……Well, thank god for the Indies.
Linda McCarthy
I would suggest that today’s triple play won’t be long considered rare. Given the way Dear Leader has ratcheded up the insanity, he seems hell-bent on generating as much bad publicity for the Church as possible.
Marty & Mike – so this is the kind of 100 megaton footnuke you two were constantly trying to keep Dear Leader from launching when you were still working for him, eh?
Well, he was trying to destroy himself and you got in his way, so you had to go. I am SOOOOOoooo glad you two don’t work for him any more, seriously!
Michael A. Hobson
Independent
You “suggest” that I don’t ask questions? I suggest you keep your suggestions about what I communicate about to yourself. I was pretty clear I think in saying that I really don’t know. I’ve read all the Tom & DM stories that I’ve seen out there, and still haven’t seen why he deserves to catch so much crap. When Marty and Mike were in, they were vilified by some independents of course, but for specific reasons & actions that they don’t deny. So, why is it nobody ever seems to say exactly what Tom Cruise is supposed to be guilty of. Must be some heinous sociopathic acts, because there seem to be at least a few here who are trying to somehow justify threatening to reveal information from a — well, sacred — confessional.
Don’t you people realize how destructive that is to the Independent cause? You propose to fling pages of somebody’s (ANYBODY’S) PC folder in the air, and this is supposed to reflect well on your integrity and on the integrity of independents in general? Threats of exposure of private confessional material are supposed to make the position of the independents attractive to those still in but looking?
If you would reveal Tom Cruise’s session information, where would you stop? If it’s OK to do it to Tom, then it’s OK to do it to others, or to anybody, right?
This type of threat is just as destructive to the independent movement and to true Scientology, and DM’s persecutions and inquisitions are destructive to the church and to Scientology.
Revealing session information seems to me to be one of two things: Fair Game-ing, or a suppressive act. Whatever the rationale or lack of it, such an action would only bring shame to the independent movement, and almost seems deliberately calculated to be destructive to our goals.
Tony, I am really glad to hear you say that. Seriously. Hope you don’t mind me saying.
“he has been negligent for failing Due Diligence as to what his donations to the IAS have been funding.”
It’s not that easy because it gets into some fuzzy, subjective sort of math. You’ve got the money he’s donated sure but then you’ve got customized, eucalyptus burl dashboards and wildly painted motorcycles. You’ve got birthday parties on the Freewinds and the freshly planted hills of Int Base to romp with his wife at the time.
All those things add up but especially when you consider DM putting on a cattle call to bring in eligible bachelorettes.
What’s that worth?
In some parts of the world men would pay dearly for that kind of service.
And last but not least, he’s personal friends with the Pope on a Box.
Priceless!
Bruce – Thanks for the attention (I was joking with you – no oversight, no apologies required). It is interesting that some weigh the pros and cons of Dan’s proposal – seems to me your position is correct and most people see that. – Carcha (George, a dude – there’s another George here, so I’ll go by Carcha – if I could dope out how to put up a photo, I would.)
Hi RJ,
Long time no see.
What are the LRH references on this issue?
You do not need to apologize for them. They might think they can get away with this. Doing some overts, getting them off in a sec check session, doing some hours of amends and then being clean again. Hi out there: it does not work that way!
I think whats needed is direct demonstrations against DM. At all Church events, we need to be standing outside with legal protest permits in hand, and our own t-shirts printed with things like “Put DM’s HEAD ON A PIKE”, and “DM: WHERE ARE YOUR STATS?” and “DM: SHOW US YOUR STATS” and so on ..
This will drive him insane. He can’t stand the attention he’s getting, so put more on him.
Marty and all,
PR area Control…. I many times felt ashamed when in the C of M with the very bad PR area control we had.
Marty… you are Real… this says everything. I will be writing more!
+1
I agree. A tit for tat is wrong target.
Emulating or copying an SP does not fix the situation. It simply continues it in another form.
What DM is doing violates basic Scn tenets and principles. We need to just keep on exposing his crimes. I could not care less what they take from my PC folders and publish. Make my day! I am too busy flourishing and prospering — and my own PR with my business and contacts is such that efforts to slander me would be ignored or investigated as slander.
Dan — there is no need to try and blackmail a lunatic. He is psycho and is so efficiently digging his own grave that we just need to let him do so.
Oh — and DM — as info for you, in case you did not already know – you have managed to completely destroy the PR of Scn here in Australia. Any utterance from the Church is simply not believed by the general public. Take my word for it. I speak to LOTs of people, and I have yet to find anyone with a favourable word about you and your organisation. Your continued severe violations of the Public Relations HCOPLs are making your efforts to slander completely ineffective. In fact, your house of cards may very well come tumbling down based on the state and scene of Scn here in Australia. Too many crimes covered up. Too many withholds. Too many people screwed over. It is all stacking up — and the cards will come tumbling down.
The Daily Mail online UK this morning
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
Yeah, that’s exactly their trouble; I think their internet hits will triple at least. Media will pick it up and they’ll get their forum. Their next movies will be block busters, not only because of the additonal outflow and media attention but surely because they as a person will have overcome their most inner fears and can thus can start to expand their reach. At the moment they live in the hellish prison of the lake shadows, continuously restimmed by their Master At Antics. Bravery will conquer the hell they’ve created for themselves; most on this blog know!
Jim,
I’ve been watching how beings get attention and how individuals try to gain or establish importance. It’s an interesting but weird study. Admiration may be valuable, but beings will settle for attention because the more attention you get the more important you become. And a being can convert another’s attention into ersatz admiration. Sort of a weirdly converted validation of creation.
And reality operates on validation of creation–however a being can bring that about.
As for importance: You put a vase of flowers on the dining room table and it would normally get the attention and admiration, but if you stick a turd on the table also, the flowers lose their admiration and attention which is thwarted and absorbed by the turd.
Unlike the turd, which can be readily removed–though the idea continues to haunt–a being can just keep on mocking up his turdness. More you try to convince him to not be a turd, the more important he becomes, and the more he mocks it up.
Anyone who believes that reason will influence the turds cropping up in Marty’s and Mike’s and other’s yards is probably misapplying their analysis of the situation.
What these buffoons are doing makes them important, makes them significant, gives their life meaning. And makes them right. Provides them reality. Very low reality, but solid and validating.
And if their exposure to LRH’s work has left them this bereft of sense, reason is simply not going to work. LRH’s writings are filled with how to enhance the analytical capacity of a being. If these guys and gals have failed to understand the simplicities expatiated by LRH, they certainly won’t be able to grasp anything you or I or Marty or anyone else might offer up as to why they should act rationally.
THEY LACK THE ABILITY TO APPLY ANALYTICAL THOUGHT.
Not absolutely. But, to such a marked degree that it’s spooky.
They lack the ability to recognize rationality. Recognition is just too high on the awareness characteristics.
At this stage, finding their ruin would be a long reach upwards.
Regardless of DM’s influence, each and every one of these fools has been exposed to volumes of material on how to apply reason and analysis. And it didn’t sink in.
Maybe it’s the coffee that’s prompted this outburst. Maybe it’s watching the humming birds at the feeders outside the window and contemplating the neural responses necessary for wings to beat that fast. How come I can’t type that fast? How come I can’t run that fast? I’m going to work on it.
And, a last word on admiration. I’ve got to flow a little admiration your way for your grasp of what LRH says. Very admirable. Very.
Michael
O.K, there may be an MU, so let’s clear it up.
What’s the reference that makes it an overt?
Jim,
I found Tom’s noodle when I bought some pasta yesterday. Unfortunately for him, it has formed into a Mobius strip, which leaves him only one side running perpetually in a loop.
I would try to slice the noodle in such a way that his ability to have two sides returns. But, my hand shakes. I doubt my courage to proceed. Will the noodle shatter? Will I leave him forever broken mentally, without a chance of redemption?
Such hard choices.
But, alas, I’m hungry. And as the other noodles boil, the marinara beckons.
Yummy.
Eric,
Can I add a thought to what you’ve said? I know that I agree with your position within the game we’re playing, yet, a game is ultimately a game.
One of the factors in precipitating our downward spiral as beings is the unwillingness to experience evil and the like. Within the game, it’s good to hold a given moral position–while maintaining the capacity to mock up evil on a grand scale.
That said, pc data is inviolate. Period. Within this game.
Beyond this game, it’s not so bad to mock up divulging pc information and ridiculing every embarrassing revelation. You just have to know where to apply any given experience and idea.
The mock ups some offer have a certain gleeful fun factor. And there’s nothing especially wrong with that on the grand scheme of existence. We just have to know where this horseplay applies and where it does not.
Michael
a thunder in the storm:
http://www.celebitchy.com/167633/placido_domingo_jr_on_how_scientology_goons_are_harassing_him/
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=140731
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/60946521.html
🙂 🙂 🙂
and her for the Germans. Seems to be a big storm !
http://www.promicabana.de/placido-domingo-jr-scientology-beaengstigend/
In Rome, Italy this morning
http://notizie.virgilio.it/notizie/spettacoli/2011/07_luglio/11/usa_placido_domingo_jr_accusa_scientology_di_attacchi_patetici,30441364.html
In Germany this morning
http://www.promicabana.de/placido-domingo-jr-scientology-beaengstigend/
>You hit the nail on the head Marty, when you said he doesn’t care about the consequences, he wants people to think he is stark staring mad as its his only hope for making you and others scared of him.
He *wants* to destroy Scientology. This is proven by his statistics.
The practice of violating session confidentiality alone could turn 99.9% of people away from Scientology. It’s one of the worst suppressive acts possible IMO.
Even in “not auditing you” sessions and one-on-one talks with an EO/MAA who is going to feel free to talk knowing it might be used against them as leverage to get them to disconnect from their spouse for example?
What a bunch of nuts.
I tried to find out what Minerva wrote about Placido.
So I google it. Find they had already a page indexed by Google at:
http://martyrathbunblog.com/mark-rathbun-article/marty-rathbun's-hero-placebo-domingo/
I arrived too late, the page was taken down.
Probably, the one who wrote it though too late than writing so much garbage on such great man (from a very religious and full of ARC people) would only backfire.
But Google kept a cash of the page:
Have a look at this 1.1 write up.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PwzFtojoPnEJ:martyrathbunblog.com/mark-rathbun-article/marty-rathbun%E2%80%99s-hero-placebo-domingo/+marty+rathbun+placido+domingo&cd=1&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr&source=www.google.fr
Anyone want to get a little sec check in the Church?
Miscavige, you really increase the speed in digging your own grave.
In case a few people did not realize how crazy you are, you keep giving them more evidences, day after day.
Hi Gandiguy;
I bet they are including in that count their own Freedumb mag and all their own press releases.
Erwin,
The refs? Seriously? You are better than that. Take for a start What is Greatness?
The materials of Level/Grade II are there and then there is the HCOB Justification.
There is nothing to be gained in violation of the Auditor’s Code and the sanctity of a confessional. Categorically zero.
I understand the urge, believe me, I UNDERSTAND. However, that’s what we’ve gained as Scientologists isn’t it? The ability to not react, but to step out and as rational, ethical theta, work to change the conditions that make the Overt/Motivator sequence hell on earth.
NO. The sanctity of the confessional is not negotiable. Read the refs in Level II, particularly the one on Clean Hands Make a Happy Life and the Power to Forgive.
This shit DM lays out is nothing more than a trap for the free theta that you Erwin are.
Hi Tom;
I doubt if a lawsuit would fly because you couldn’t prove the allegations. You’d most likely need someone who was on the actual line of mining pc folders for data to step forward.
I remember once, back in the mid 80’s I was asked to do just that, go through a pc folder looking for data that could be used in a legal case. I was really shocked because it was unheard of, at least by me. I didn’t know what to do, so I went home with the folder, had a coffee, came back and told the ASHO DAY MAA at the time there was nothing there. He was surprised, but he believed me.
Hmmm … I just realized, I’ve never gotten that withhold off until now. Never once ever came up, never even thought of it, not once, ’til now. hahaha.
Bruce Wiseman had been an Executive at COSMOD for years when the infamous Mission Holders conference occurred. He bolted first.
Thankyou Michael. While you may be happy we dont work for him any more, I can assure you there is no one happier than I am!!
And yes, when Marty says we were buffers for his insanity, this is exactly the type of thing he was talking about.
And it IS his orders/direction that is being followed. I know that not only from experience, but because Minerva is SO insistent that nothing on that site and none of the actions of the Ass Busters has anything to do with the Pope on a Box (thanks Cowboy Poet — that was a perfect title). As Minerva said: “Nothing I have ever posted on this site has been written by, suggested by, or instructed by, COB.” Hahaha. Their denials at this point are absolute proof of what is happening – e.g. “The squirrelbusters are not affiliated with the church”, “We are just making a documentary”, “there is no such ting as disconnection,” “we ARE expanding goddammit,” etc etc etc.
Stan — He is working on a forfeit for unsportsmanlike conduct.
Very nicely said.
ML Tom
Hi Erwin;
To reveal or not to reveal, that is the question. There is no blanket answer, it is an ethics thing. Contemplation of the greatest good is the path to take.
If posting one session stops the posting of hundreds … this has to be at least considered.
Celeb news
http://celebritynewsandstyle.com/placido-domingo-jr-attacked-by-scientology-112/
I wouldn’t even entertain the idea. It’s betrayal after trust any way you slice it. It isn’t a question of whether or not we can justify not following the Auditors Code. The sanctity of a confession goes well beyond our own internal policies in the matter. It’s a point of historical honor not to betray another’s trust regardless of the temptation.
Going down to DM’s level would make us guilty of the very same crimes he commits in the name of Scientology and would make other Scientologists and LRH appear complicit in the crime.
However you have illustrated a really good analogy which should sober remaining Koolaid drinkers. If this can happen to church celebrities, it can happen to ANYONE who is connected to the church right now. Do you think Tom Cruise wouldn’t be torn to shreds by the OSA Black PR machine should he dare to think sideways?
I wouldn’t do it to someone and would hope that no-other members of this group would. The willingness to confess and show remorse for ones actions is an honorable activity that only a monster like Miscavage could pervert into a tool for blackmail or control.
Leave it to the psychotic who has ‘no overts’ to parade his insanity and inhumanity for the world to see by brandishing the highly embellished, if not invented ‘sins’ of others with such relish. He is merely announcing to the world that he hates people and he hates Scientology.
GTC:
Yes, you are right. I am sure she does believe it (at least she sticks to that reality and studiously ignores any others).
I do know Virginia. She has been a PR for MANY years. She used to be LRH PPRO ANZO when I was LRH PPRO Int.
No doubt she is being ordered by someone who is telling her what to say. It’s such a microcosm of what is wrong with the C of M. She can say there is no messianic leader and on some level believe it is true. Though when the Pope on a Box was in ANZO for the Melbourne Idle Org “Grand” opening I am sure she was absolutely terrified of doing anything that might possible cause the slightest displeasure to POB. And I guarantee she knows that to utter a word even questioning his integrity/sense/brilliance/on-Sourceness/wonderfulness/handsomeness etc etc is a death wish. And I bet she knows that people are sec checked for hundreds of hours to find out what “evil purposes” they have towards “COB.” These are facts she DOES know. But, if she wantsto stay out of the RPF she certainly could not have a thought in her head that perhaps there is something wrong and that perhaps Miscavige has in fact become a cult leader and gone way beyond the respect that people had for L. Ron Hubbard and turned it into a fear like people had for Stalin.
But, the world is going to put her head straight. Because if they are stupid enough to bring their threatened lawsuit (and threatening libel cases these days is stupid in and of itself as it opens the door to “Scientology is a litigious cult”) they are going to be crucified. So, not matter how you look at this — it was a massive fail. And no doubt the church took a position because it really offended the vanity of Pope on a Box to have anyone say that he is a cult leader (he doesnt care what trashing LRH takes or the subject of Scientology — when it comes to him, no slight is too small to knee-jerk about).
Hi Dan;
I was just thinking after reading all the posts on this subject, perhaps one route to consider is not to expose the session data with TC, but to expose that you and others were ordered to watch it. That would probably have an even greater effect, and the confidentiality of the session would still be inviolate.
Perhaps you could send out a ‘press release’ or some such on what you were ordered to do, or email it to various news outlets. If picked up, that would be a crushing blow to DM and his koolaid krew.
Sure, Colombian WOG Army on the Ship. Strange PR show. *loool
And the German TV with Mark Janicello:
German National Television
I just found out that I will be on the German National Television Station MDR on Thursday July 14th. On their program “MDR um 12:00” with an interview about my book. The show actually begins at 11:45 am. I filmed the interview at the end of June. It was to have been broadcast live, but due to the hurricane-force winds in Germany the night before, my segment was bumped to make room for more weather news.
This interview is quite pointed and more critical than the interview I did with Patric Kees.
Peekaboo –
It’s more of an ‘Indie’ type of production than a ‘Hollywood’ one 😀
For us, the story is beautiful and inspiring the way it has already ended; with two people who have evolved and learned there is so much more to love than ‘boy meets girl’ 😉
But you got the message right. Love does conquer all.
Isn’t it wonderful that DM is so stupid!
I don’t think someone who has been on their knees this long has the strength of character required to take a stand. Prove me wrong Debbie (and Wayne). I had respect for you once upon a time.
Great idea!!
Love it 🙂
Now THAT makes sense.
Hi Erwin,
Interesting take. So far I am in the camp where we don’t stoop to that level. But if things got a lot worse, all bets might be off.
You got it Mr. Fancy
Confront the fear of what another may say about you, look ’em in the eye and say ‘IS THAT THE BEST YOU’VE GOT?!’
Blackmail thus rendered completely ineffective.
It’s ok. I will try to stay sane for awhile. But like any other rabid beast, I have my limit. 🙂
Very well put, Sam.
Here’s another viewpoint. If the day comes where Tom Cruise decides he’s had enough and decides to go independent, wouldn’t you want him to be able to feel safe in getting off his withholds? Wouldn’t you want him to have refuge from the suppressive environment he is currently succumbing to? If you use what you know about him to manipulate DM now, you greatly damage that potential for the future.
Interesting indeed! They did a hit on Janet Reitman that lasted perhaps 24 hours (less, really) that was taken down as well.
The “Rolling Thunder” of heads in Hemet. What a bunch of maroons!
(By the way, I like how DMinerva tried to take that phrase from Bugs Bunny and turn it into a racist slur. It is hateful comedy)
George,
It happens to everyone. I know a public at AOLA who has been on an ‘ethics program’ for 3 years and was all but ostracized from the group because he dared to have the ED of his org come up as his PTS item in an auditing session.
Finding overts isn’t about proving how bad a person is or holding him up as an example of evil. It’s about freeing up his own ability to reach.
What was done to you is reverse Scientology and it is evil.
Thank you JM
♥
Dear Dan,
I respect you very very much.
I know you have done a lot of good in the SO, to make LRH tech available.
I am being audited by an old time auditor, who got back auditing as a independent after being in comm with you.
You are doing a lot to get many auditors back auditing real LRH tech.
Please, don’t go into this blackmail, and get bad image on the free zone and the independents.
“The End Justifies The Means” has been the moto of Miscavige and his squirel church since long.
This is how they justify all their crimes, the disconnections, spreading sessions data, etc.
While I have lot of admiration for all your actions, I will not support those actions.
The last question you may want to ask yourself is:
“What would LRH do in this situation?”
All the best,
Placi asked Mace Kingsley for my daughter Paloma’s PC folders to be handed over last year so she could burn them (her request).
The ED of Mace Kingsley Family Centre (Jeff Avrin) was unable to comply with the request as he had already handed the PC folders over to OSA.
Now what would OSA want with a 12 year old’s PC folders?
There is a valuable lesson that Corporate Scientology and David Miscavige aka: Dear Loser, Pope on a box et al, will never learn, and that is:
No matter what they say about those who speak out, it doesn’t change a damn thing in regard to the human rights abuses, and atrocities that Corporate Scientology is guilty of perpetuating upon its own parishioners and staff.
They can say what they want about Marty, Mike, Sam, Placi, Tony, Bryan and a host of others and it changes nothing! It is about as effecting as a rapist saying his victim once cheated on a test in grade school therefore she shouldn’t be listened to. The coerced abortions happened, the physical beatings happened, the destruction of families happened, and no amount of smear campaigns will change that. It happened to too many people who are willing to expose it and stop it.
Their attempts to smear whistle blowers are tantamount to waving a giant flag that says “WE ARE A CULT!” Each step they take on this road only proves to the public in general that they are nuts and confirms their stupidity.
So let them spew their lies, twist facts and lamely attempt to smear. Let Corporate Scientology, Squirrel Busters and OSA bots everywhere continue to paint themselves as psychotic cultist who truly know nothing about Scientology itself.
At the end of the day, the curtain has been pulled back, the criminality exposed and the world is watching. There isn’t a box high enough for DM to stand on to escape from what is coming for him.
The Auditor’s Code, #22. “I promise not to use the secrets of a preclear divulged in session for punishment or personal gain.”
Love it, love it!
WTF!?
So, so wrong. On so, so many levels.
I am not willing to break the auditor’s code. But I am willing to take a torch to the family centre. Maybe I’ll just stand outside with a torch and a sign.
A little of veritas’ “white hot holy rage which loves & protects all life. burns off all chaff” would not leave much.
Bruce Pratt
Well Sam, a few thoughts come to mind about what they might want them for….
But another thought comes to mind too.
Mace Kingsley claims they are NOT affiliated with the Church of Scientology.
I dont know on what basis they even HAVE “pc folders.” If they really ARE pc folders, and they were created by someone at Mace Kingsley they do NOT have the right to hand them over to anyone else, this is a DIRECT vio9lation of their responsibilites to maintain those folders under the priest penitent privilege — and that privilege cannot be waived without the penitent’s permission. If they were not REALLY “pc folders” (as after all, Mace Kingsley is NOT a church), then the church has ABSOLUTELY no right to them, not even under any sort of pretext about “religious files belonging to the church.”
I would say that if one wanted to make a stink about this, they are in trouble. I think any lawyer could make this case and win it even if they hadn’t graduated law school yet!
Shazam! I mention (ask for?) holy white hot rage and here’s Natalie.
This was smokin’!
Bruce Pratt
The thing that’s eating at my craw is that I have to stamp all my pc folders with a “priest/penitent privileged file” warning, and up in HCO, they have to stamp all the files with “priest/penitent privileged file”. This started after the FBI raid on ASHO. But, if the FBI can prove that it’s a sham, as in the Placido Domingo case, as in the case of other whistleblowers, then the FBI can go ahead and go through the files, since the CHURCH ITSELF WAS NOT TREATING THE FILES AS PRIEST/PENITENT PRIVILEGED.
Davey had better watch it as all his secrets will be revealed when the FBI makes its raid on Int Base.
Maybe Marty and mike should ‘appear’ and ‘disappear’ over and over next time DN opens an Idle Org. Having them pop up and down when he is on stage will flabbergast DM. It would make for a good video.
Hi Sam,
Very nice to come into contact with such highly developed beings as yourself and your family. You all set a truly a wonderful example of the most important principles of life, reminding others of what their best is.
Carcha.
Interesting thread,
In my tradition, which is Theravada Buddhist(literally way of the elders)
we quote the Buddha as having said “A person is heir to their karma”.
Their is black and white karma(we use kamma). Truly David Miscavige
is in the realm of “REALLY black kamma”, and he is heir to his own.
Also, there is “neither black nor white kamma”, which allows us to
transcend kamma which in the end is merely a realm.
Much loving-kindness,
George White
And another… I guess this is the “super duper pinky swear top secret’ news…
“Hello!
My name is Lindsey and I work in the Pacifica Bridge (PAC) Recruitment Office. I wanted to let you all know that right now is the most exciting time in PAC history! This is why:
By the end of 2011, this base is going IDEAL! It’s not just an Ideal Org or Mission, but this whole entire Base is going Ideal. That means that the American St. Hill Organization will be Ideal. The Advanced Organization of Los Angeles will be Ideal. There won’t be a place here that isn’t Ideal. With this transformation, EVERYTHING will be restored to the way LRH intends it and we will enter a new era of Scientology expansion for this area of the world!
Part of this expansion requires that we add to our roster of trained, processed, and competent Sea Org members. We need people who want to get the job done and will see to it that this goal of going Ideal becomes reality!
Below is a short Sea Org questionnaire that I’d like you to fill out – qualified or not. I can’t wait to hear from each of you. Your responses are appreciated.
Much Love,
Lindsey Weberbauer
Prospective Personnel I/C
Over to you Placi
You go, Girl!! Nailed him.
“I am appealing to any and all who love Scientology, and have experienced the gains of auditing, to hold fast the confidential sanctity of the “auditing session, (Windwalker).” 100% Agreement from my side, buddy!
Would love to hear a definition of what the whole base being “Ideal” means? Every one of the orgs there has been declared “St Hill size” at one time or another. AOLA, ASHO and LA Org have all been renovated and had “Grand Openings”? So, “Ideal” means what?
Funny how the carrot dangling at the end of this stick is so old and shriveled that its hard to see at all….
Michael,
The 5th ACC, Universes – related to Valence, to the Factors and the steps of Beingness, that is, assuming a viewpoint and extending points to view to create a universe. A universe where the creator of it (the one assuming the viewpoint and extending points to view) is the ‘god’ of that universe and whose postulates stick in that universe. Combine, confuse, smack together ‘universes’ and who knows who is the ‘god’ of that universe.
Separate them out (Valence Splitting) and who is who comes clear.
The 5th ACC. OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
P.S. Sam, to you and Placi, and all your family, a big “OLE!!!” (Of course it’s a level above bullfighting, but I hope you hear the thunderous cheers for you.)
Absolutely. I respect the hell out of Marty and Mike and Karen and Tony and Dan and all Independents, but they could all be bastards and it DOES NOT MATTER. What does matter is:
1. Scientology as a technology and a philosophy is valuable.
2. The Church of Scientology and and particularly Mr. David Miscavige are frauds, saying they are “protecting” Scientology while aiding, abetting, and performing acts that are a. illegal, and b. exactly contrary to the tenets of the subject they pretend to represent.
They can mudsling all they want. What we are witnessing is missed withhold phenomena on steroids. Harping 1.1 criticism, in spades.
Number 2 above is true. That is bad news. The really good news is that there are people who are picking up the pieces and keeping the show on the road.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/7648309.html
Houston Chronicle
Sam,
Sanity!
What is that saying, from Napoleon I think;
‘Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.’
DM has that same kind of mentality as that idiot who wanted to make everyone wrong on how the world was treating him, so he decided to show them all by nailing himself to a cross. His plan was working fine until he realized after he nailed one hand down, he screwed up, and had to call 911.
Hilarious Idiocy.
May I hazard a guess:
ideal – existing only in the imagination; not real or actual
Similar to that carrot you mention.
Bruce Pratt
+1
Michael,
A noodle in a haystack. A something among somethings. One step, a three footer, back and voila…
Marinara and pasta – yummy.
Havana, Fla and the best damn Sourcream Glazed Donuts a Canadian boy ever et. Yummy.
M,
And this sort of thing is why you are a putz after me own ‘eart.
J
Samantha,
Beautiful 🙂
Wow, Natalie!
PURE TRUTH!
I wish it was that easy. Davey publishes session data to punish those that refuse to toe his line and to gain personal control and power over those he can still restimulate. That’s a direct violation of # 22. Dan uses it to stop this continuous overt chain, not to punish anyone nor to gain anything personally and thus per definition he doesn’t violate # 22. You would have been right if the code would have said: I promise to keep all pc data confidential. But I never read anything like that.
Bob,
You haven’t read all the stories about Tom and DM, otherwise you would know that Tom and David are of the same mold these days… he is NOT a “scientologist” by definition. Only by title. His actions that are NON-survival are well documented on this blog.
As for the point about revealing session information being wrong… you are correct. There’s this thing called “sarcasim.” To threaten David Miscavage with releasing PC info on his “bestest buddy Tom” is to say,”You do it, why can’t we?”
“WE” never would. But the thought of it should scare the crap out of David because HE DOES!!! DID!!! AND WILL AGAIN!!!
You can choose to believe it or not.
Based on the tone of your posts, I’d say you either still follow allong with the Co$, in which case you will find 99% of what is said here bunk. So be it.
Or, you can dig a little more, read Friends of LRH website, get some data and facts for yourself and come to the same conclusions all of us have: David M. is an S.P. At which time you’ll really start to get pissed, start the tone scale mambo, then wake up to a realization of Freedom and Communication and actual Joy.
It’s a free world, Bob. Nothing here is true, unless it is true for you. Something you don’t hear around “campus” these days in the ole’ Co$.
Exactly, Hitler kills Jews and killing is bad thus we can’t kill Hitler. But the Americans that slaughtered him and his army were last century hero’s in the public eye.
Mike,
I think you’ve encapsulated the entire beingness in three simple letters – P.O.B.
All this time it’s been simply a transcriptionist error.
P.O.B. – Pope on a Box. ( An applebox to be exact. A ‘full apple’ cause he’s short fella.)
Mosie,
My gut feeling is that this whole thing with Placido will cause a major escalation of the inevitable. This was the biggest mistake thus far, IMO. Last time I looked the pieces on Sam where still there, second mistake.
oops, meant Mosey
OnceUponATime
Michael
Yes, I totally agree. It is a game. One can either be a game “Master”(pan-determined), a “player”(self determined), or a “piece”(object), or any combination.
One of the wins I had on Level Three, I think it was, where the PC is directed to put his attention alternately on liking, and then not liking, various things. I got so blown out I went totally exterior to the whole game. It no longer mattered to me whether I was myself, a chicken, the sidewalk, the bus, a peach, or anything, I was simply able to experience the game from any viewpoint. So, yes, I know truly have experienced “being” the viewpoint that it is a game.
Earlier I remember reading “expanded Gita” in one of LRH’s books and I was totally blown away by the concept of being able to experience any of those items.
I also have been known, on many occasions when I am confronted with someone saying “you HAVE to do this or that,” or “you MUST NOTdo this or that,” that ALL IS LIFE TO BUDDHA. It is my boiled down statement of being willing or able to experience anything.
I have also found it to be true there is no such thing as something “that is ALWAYS an overt.” An overt is always contextual. It has to do with whether some action, or inaction, is more beneficial, or more harmful to your pursuit of “optimum survival across the Dynamics.”
Have you ever wondered why you may have had so much trouble writing up overts when you “really were” in lower conditions? I used to think that that was a step in the Danger formula, well, just ’cause. Well I finally found the answer (for me).
I was doing a full deconstruct/reconstruct of the “Conditions formulas” one time (after my FPRD) and realized that below “danger” one is not really even creating HIS OWN Dynamics, and therefor really has no idea of what actions or inactions are actually aligned with HIS Dynamics or not.
You need to know where you are, who you are, what you are trying to do, and have no doubts about who or what you are aligned with or not. (concept of optimum survival) Then you have a viewpoint (your own) from which you can determine what you have done, or are doing, that would harm your progress toward creating optimum survival, as you see it.
And so we come to “FUN”. Ahhh… yessss…
For me, that is what this whole journey is about. The absolute bottom line for me, when all is said and done, is that I WANT MY UNIVERSE TO BE FUN! I want it to be EXHILARATING! I want everyone in it to be having all the fun that they can possibly stand. I am very “selfish” in this. (this, by the way, is ONE of the reasons that I so much enjoy your comm. You are delightfully playful)
And then, back to “session confidentiality”. I believe, that for now, it is a vital policy in the accomplishment of auditing of the quality and viability necessary to assist in the accomplishment of those goals.
In actuality, to me it doesn’t matter whether someone reveals what I have said in session or not. I am done with those things. I no longer fear them. I have taken responsibility for them. I am willing to deal with whatever repercussions they may have caused, or may cause in the future. They no longer control me.
But I am pretty sure that that is not a viewpoint that everybody shares, at this time, and so we have policies and technologies that create a workable gradient for us each to be able to reach our own awarenesses on this.
Session confidentiality, is such a policy.
Eric S
JM,
Thank you for that truth.
excuse me if i am stating the obvious, but the corpus christi press should be sent the appropriate links. It most likley will help give them a fuller appreication of what marty is facing.
Dear POT,
THAT is an EXCELLENT point !!!!!!!!!!!!
This point needs to be engraved in platinum!!!!!!!!!!!!
bobo
Ahhhh….. Well done on “getting that off”.
Here’s a definition I like…
“3 . A withhold is something that a person believes that if it is revealed it will endanger their self preservation. (SH Spec 113, 6202C20)
This is one of the reasons that session sanctity is a valid policy. In auditing, or in life, one will only “give up” those things that they feel somewhat safe in doing so. The session structure and the policies and codes that apply, are designed to create this “safe” atmosphere. When this is absent, the value of auditing is diminished.
Curiously enough, “having a withhold” does not necessarily have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not you committed an “overt”, it can simply be something that you didn’t tell someone. The ability to withhold, in fact, is actually a sign of sanity. (notice where “can’t withhold anything” is on the tone scale. Propitiation)
Eric S
Agreed Jim. Of all the varied and creative names that have popped up on this blog, there are two that I find both apt, simple and adequately descriptive, both of which are encapsulated in P.O.B. (the other being Dear Leader). But to those of us who knew and referred to him as COB for so many years, P.O.B. just has a perfect ring.
Los Angeles Times at http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
Mike, you prove the point that anyone can write this Dan Sherman drivel. So what’s he got on Dan anyway? He’s not an SO member. Why doesn’t he go off an get an honest living somewhere…oh, nevermind…who else would buy that stuff…
George, good quote from the Bhudda. I agree. I paraphrase Harold Waldwin Percival, author of Thinking and Destiny as follows;
The word Karma(sanskrit) means action and interaction of desire and mind. Karma is the law to which all laws are subservient.
The sum total of the thoughts and actions of a life are carried over by the real I, the individuality, to the next life, and to the next, and from one world system to another, until the ultimate degree of perfection has been reached and the law of ones own thoughts and actions, the law of Karma, has been satisfied and fullfilled.
Karma adjusts the mutually interdependent acts of the billions of men who have died and lived and who will die and live again. Though dependent and interdependent on others of his kind, each human being is a “Lord of Karma”. We are all Lords of Karma because each one if the ruler of his own fate. There are 4 types of Karma, thought, psychic, desire and sex. They are seperate but related. And he goes on and on for 1000 pages covering every interesting subject imaginable in this classic work. The Word Foundation website has most of his writings there for free. Click on ‘early editorials’. Percival died in 1953.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
Boy you have to be quick to copy and paste it, but I got it.
I’d like to make a note to any non-Scientologists who follow this blog and occasionally (as I do) check out the anti-Marty blogs when mentioned here. These anti-Marty (and supposedly pro-Church of Scientology) posting all have one very peculiar thing in common. Over-the-top snide comments and innuendo. I won’t even mention outright lies, because you may not know them to be–though the obvious intention is for you to think these things are true. Besides manifesting some of the characteristics of a “suppressive person” (of which there are only 2 1/2 percent in the entire population), they are the characteristics of someone who, 1) has something to hide, 2) is guilty of the very crimes he or she accuses others of. I said “very peculiar” above. Any real Scientologist would never speak in these terms, particularly in a public forum and particularly behind the screen of anonymity. Remember the “school bully”? That’s who is behind these blogs. And you already know from this blog who is really in charge of their content.
Hi Dan;
I’m thinking more and more that what you were ordered to do may be a great opportunity to expose what DM is doing on a huge scale.
If you were to write up in full detail, how you got the order, from whom, how you know it was from DM, or not, who else knew about it, how you found out taht others also were given the same or similar order, did you and they talk about it, did you and they talk to others about it, where the session was held, how you got there, how the others got there, who was the auditor, who was the c/s, did you and the others talk about anything as you watched it, did you video it, did you write down details, what happened after you witnessed it, who did the reports go to, who asked you about it, who else knew about it, and so forth. A real story.
Then, maybe Marty would put in on this blog as a single post. We know that this blog is read by many, and no doubt The Village Voice would pick it up, and then around the world.
It may well be that TC doesn’t read this kind of reporting, but once it hit the celebrity tabloids, his friends and associates sure would read it, and no doubt he’d hear about it, and he’d have to confront it, if only to get a denial.
What is DM trying to protect? The tax status for sure, but personally, what is he trying to protect? As Mike and Marty both know, that is where he is most vulernable.
If you did do this, and if it did get reported far and wide, TC would have something he needed to get cleared up.
Anyway, just an idea.
Picked up by the Los Angeles Times …:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
…the UK’s Daily Mail…:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
…and Radar Online:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
This is slightly off topic but shows on a grander scale what China is doing with their “build it and the people will come” aproach which must be where Miscgavich got his idea for the Ideal Orgs.
http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/china-zombie-movie
Los Angeles Times:
The strange case of Placido Domingo Jr. and the Church of Scientology
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
[NOTE: Only pro-COS comments at this time.]
Washington Post:
In other news: Coheed and Cambria bassist arrested; Placido Domingo Jr. denounces Scientology
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/post/in-other-news-coheed-and-cambria-bassist-arrested-placido-domingo-jr-denounces-scientology/2011/07/11/gIQA0VCG9H_blog.html
Daily Mail (UK):
Placido Domingo Jr. targeted by Scientologists after he abandons cult for ex-wife he was ordered not to see again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
Germany:
http://www.promicabana.de/placido-domingo-jr-scientology-beaengstigend/
Italy:
http://notizie.virgilio.it/notizie/spettacoli/2011/07_luglio/11/usa_placido_domingo_jr_accusa_scientology_di_attacchi_patetici,30441364.html
Celebrity News and Style:
http://celebritynewsandstyle.com/placido-domingo-jr-attacked-by-scientology-112/
Canada:
http://www.dramarama.ca/2011/07/singing-stars-son-shunned-on-facebook.html
Please clear “punishment” – This is an attempt to punish DM using PC data.
Actually, he killed himself.
I think I found the WHY for all the ideal Orgs. DM has been watching old movies while sipping whiskey and got fixated on Kevin Kostner! http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/blame-kevin-costner-for-chinas-real-estate-bubble
Leave the nasty rumor-mongering to McSavage and OSA, please.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
One of the ways the violations occur is that an auditor writes down a discreditable statement in a PC session and someone else reads it and spreads it around. My solution as an auditor outside the CofS is to never write down the details of overts.
I would be interested to hear comments on what Independent Auditors would do faced with a particular dilemna. I haven’t personally experienced this situation but have been very close to it. Let us say a PC turns up for session and admits that he has recently raped children. This situation has occured for the Catholic Church. The priest confesses his sins every Sunday and is never taken to justice.
One knows that the PC has the overts well justified and is incapable of self restraint. If one fails to inform the authorities then further rapes will occur.
In such a situation I personally would consider the welfare of the children as senior to any PPP. However if someone told me in session that they lied on their income tax returns then I wouldn’t report it.
So, for me there is a line to draw, but I’m not even sure for myself exactly where it lies.
I realize that what I’m talking about is very different from the things that have been brought up here but I nevertheless feel it relevant to the discussion.
crashingupwards,
Thank you for the lead. I will check him out in depth.
Just the paraphrase is excellent. My wife and I research all of these
sources.
Amazing he died in 1953. He must have had a line to the
early translations of the Buddha.
Much loving kindness,
GMW
I’m with Jim on this.
We can all quibble about the semantics of point #22 of The Auditor’s Code all night, and wonder if it really is an overt or not, but none of that will matter because:
1. The general population (those we most wish to help) will turn their back on Independents and say “See, those slimy Scientologists are all the same and those leopards do not change their spots! Sanctity of the Confessional my ass!”
2. Every decent being I ever met who understands The Auditor’s Code considers it to say “I will not divulge session data. Ever. Period.”
When you go down the road of 1), it will not be DM that finally sunk LRH’s legacy, it will be us. I dunno about anyone else, but I’m not carrying that overt on my back. Getting into semantics to work around 2) is to my mind a form of Justification, but one that comes before the overt, not after. And I will have no truck with that one either.
3. What could possibly be in TC’s pc folder that would be useful in terms of PR? This can easily backfire as the public generally don’t care about the average overts that fill people’s folders, and they may well even rush to TC’s defense! Witness the support Placido is getting right here – no-one gives a flying hoot about what he revealed in session, but the betrayal after trust by the Church has folk seriously riled up.
4. “Reveal session data” is actually not one of the 30-odd ethics gradients….
If TC’s correct ethics gradient right now is to have his crimes exposed, then an investigation by a competent detective will reveal all rather quickly. JB’s dox of an RV and burl comes to mind. No need to go down a slippery slope.
Finally, and I mention this only for completeness, Dan didn’t actually say he could or would reveal session data. He said he was sent down to CC Int on DM’s orders and observed things. Dan didn’t say what he observed and didn’t in any way hint what it might be. Maybe it’s a somewhat coded message that DM will understand perfectly clearly and make him quiver in his boots and have nothing to do with an auditing session. I’m going to stand in the “benefit of the doubt” camp until such time as Dan makes his meaning known.
Alan
Very well said Natalie.
Hey Dear Loser (aka: We stand tall on a box),
It seems to be just a little more than a hat trick (can you spell “Viral”?) Here is a recap of your achievements for the weekend, in case you missed it:
LA Times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
UK Daily mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013433/Placido-Domingo-Jr-targeted-Scientologists-abandons-cult-favour-ex-wife.html
Houston:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/7648309.html
San Antonio:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Scientologists-behind-harassment-campaign-in-1459662.php
Corpus Christie:
http://www.caller.com/news/2011/jul/09/church-of-scientology-magazine-seeks-to-hire-in/
El Paso:
http://www.kfoxtv.com/entertainment/28507275/detail.html
New York:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/07/placido_domingo.php
Celeb sites:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-says-scientology-attacking-him
http://celebs.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979606512
http://celebritynewsandstyle.com/placido-domingo-jr-attacked-by-scientology-112/
Village Voice update
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/07/placido_domingo.php
“UPDATE: I just spoke with Domingo again this (Monday) afternoon. He was unaware just how much his story has been picked up since we posted this interview Saturday night just before midnight. The L.A. Times, Washington Post, and the Daily Mail in London are among the places that have noted our story.
“This is the last way I wanted to be famous. I’d rather be known for singing or performing,” Domingo said to me.
He pointed out that the slanderous information about him had been taken down since our article appeared, and he was interested to hear that Anonymous had managed to snag a copy. I explained to him how to find it.
Otherwise, he hasn’t heard from the church about the incident, and he says he hopes it stays that way.
“I hope this is the end of it and I don’t have to hear any more defamation of me. All I did was pass on the information about Wiseman’s statement to Marty. I never attacked the church.””
Thanks for the reply, Bozz. It’s possible that the original post was meant to be sarcastic, but in all the back-and-forth discussion of the merits of leaking session data there has been no mention of sarcasm until now.
Not true that I am in Co$ — have been out for 20 years or so. Maybe you assumed that just because I wrote an angry post that I am angry at independents. No, I was just expressing anger about probably well-meaning people seeming to be willing to get together a lynch mob and string up TC’s PC folders, while seemingly oblivious to the fact that stooping to the level of an SP is going to help the independent movement.
But discussion has continued, and the consensus seems to be that would be a bad idea.
All I was saying is that I haven’t seen a single specific allegation against Tom Cruise that could ever justify such an attack. In fact, I haven’t seen any specific accusations at all. Several people have posted generalities during this discussion, but nothing specific.
Saying TC is in DM’s valence doesn’t really mean anything, without saying what he DID. People have stated that DM has ordered all kinds of PC-folder-retaliation against enemies, and I believe that. Nobody has said that Tom did that too.
Why is it that in the several replies to my questions, nobody has posted any links or specifics as to Tom’s supposed crimes.
Tom is just an example for me of the question — how are we going to treat people who are still in the church? Are they to be treated as idiots and evil bastards, deserving of only ridicule and attacks? Or don’t we need to recognize that they are mostly just like we were before we got out, and worthy of being communicated with and understood? Would you have gotten out if, before you did, there had been people threatening to reveal your PC folder info?
Not saying someone should not be held accountable for what they have actually done.
Earlier I posted a comment which agreed with Dan Koon’s threat to reveal confidential data about Tom Cruise. After reading the many statements from those here who are much wiser than I, I see that it would be an affront to our most basic beliefs; and that such an action would sink to the level of the scum that is Miscavige/OSA. “What Is Greatness?” is sometimes difficult to live by in these turbulent times. Thank you for helping me remember that it is a standard to aspire to.
I’m with you brother.
ML Tom
Agreed Byran,
Without the confidentiality in, there is no application of Scientology possible.
SB,
Thanks.
Much loving-kindness
GMW
Mike,
What type of service does Mace Kingsley provide? If they keep ANY information about the a person regarding his or her physical or mental health or condition, it is information that should be protected by federal law (HIPAA) and cannot be shared or disclosed. Basically it includes any health information, including provision of health care services.
PERHAPS THOSE THAT HAVE CONJURED UP “SERIOUS” FROM DAN’S COMMENT, DON’T REALIZE THAT THE REVELATIONS PRECEDING HIS CHALLENGE TO DM WERE IN FACT THE WHOLE PURPOSE INTENDED I.E. REVELATION.
AFTER ALL, DAN KOON AS AN AUDITOR, CERTAINLY KNOWS WHAT THE AUDITOR’S CODE IS.
BTW, IS “WILL MY PC DATA REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL?” COMPARABLE TO TRYING TO FLY THE PTP RUDIMENT KNOWING YOU GOT 5 MINUTES LEFT ON YOUR PARKING METER?
Bulls eye!
What drives DM into rage and stupidity beyond anything else is case gain. He is already insane.
He is personally incapable of it and keeps all his staff unsessionable and PTS so that they can’t make it. Org staffs are denied auditing and publics pay for auditing but get endless sec checks instead.
The greatest way of directly demonstrating against DM is to make case gain in oneself and others. As LRH once said “Flourish and Prosper”.
Hi Dan,
Totally understand, knowing what you know, the desire to threaten DM this way. But, a senior purpose of the Independent movement is to Keep Scientology Working and restore it’s good name. Removing confidentiality, kills the application of the subject. So, I think we need to stay pure in this area. I know for me, one of the reasons Marty is so respected is that he has not released any confidential information from anyone’s folder. I think it is the correct example to follow.
Sam,
I commented on this some months back. Mace Kingsley (MK) is not a church and any records with your daughter’s name and papers inside do not belong to the church. Your daughter, as a minor, doesn’t even have a statute of limitation for legal action won’t begin until her 18th birthday. If she was told or asked to write up any ethics conditions, OW’s, etc by MK then they have a legal and fiduciary responsibility for these records. I say fiduciary as I thought she was a student or public there and I am sure funds of some type changed hands.
Your daughter has the right to demand to know each and every person that has ever handled or viewed any of these records. Any mental anguish caused can have a dollar value added by a jury. I can well assure that NO private facility in the US would be allowed to turn over records on a minor female child to any church that merely requested these records.
When your daughter went to MK, at that moment that facility assumed a responsibility under an implied contract to protect both the person and the records. We are not talking about records involved in a student transfer or any legal records request. We are talking about a request for records by a completely unrelated group – an organization which at that time was in an adversarial position vis-a-vis you, and your personal life (which includes your family.)
I see this as either Jeff Avrin, stole records on a under-aged female or acted in collusion with another to ensure the records were placed into the hands of unknown person(s) that now seem to maintain possession of records which don’t belong to them. I agree with Mike, just about any lawyer could have a field day with this.
For OSA readers, please note, this young girl did NOT SIGN any legal agreement regarding her pc or ethics files and therefore you have no standing as to why you requested personal records on a minor girl and why you still appear to be maintaining ownership of records which belong to a non related entity – Mace Kingsley.
I also happen to know that school records of a minor are covered by privacy laws and regulations. These have identification information with full legal name, address, date of birth and probably social security numbers. Many times health information, information of opinions from teachers and other facility personnel. Stolen personal information is still stolen personal information. LRH references and orders from seniors won’t cover your asses on this matter when this goes into full legal recourse.
LA Times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/placido-domingo-jr-scientology.html
Dan is not vindictive; he just wants to break Davey’s forced control and blackmail and get TC to cognite. We all agree that punishment never has and never will work.
Smart!
They still slaughtered his troops, demolished his country and caused him commit suicide. That enough to become worlds greatest hero?
Nice rolling thunder stats Davey! Square foot of press: straight up and vertical!
I geuss it’s the RPF for good old Joe now
Micheal
It is a wise and strong man who can freely change his mind, recognize a possible error in judgement and publicly state a renewed position.
Chapeau.
That is called *doin’ it rite*
It also punishes Tom Cruise for his support of the church as he would be the one getting hurt. He is the PC here!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PwzFtojoPnEJ:martyrathbunblog.com/mark-rathbun-article/marty-rathbun%E2%80%99s-hero-placebo-domingo/+placebo+domingo&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
CL:
It supposed to be a school. I am not sure what “auditing” they provide. Seems to be a real hodge-podge. I think Sapere Aude’s analysis above is spot on. They are in trouble either way they try to play this.
We should get together so we can catch each other up.
Will call tomorrow.
Mike
+3
+3 (posted in wrong place further down)
Speaking of What Is Greatness. Your comment is evidence of your application. I was sad that you and Joy couldnt make it to July 4th — this reminds me why…
Thanks Jim,
I respect you a lot and I think the auditors code is not negotiable just like the other references you gave me but none of them tells me that session data is confidential or how much of session data can or can’t be revealed.
What is the reference on the sanctity of the confessional? I may not have that one.
Mrinder,
+1
Me too.
I get the reason – I understand Dan’s request, and his effort, and I do not condemn being pissed off about it. But, this is still a violation of the Auditor’s Code. This is a punitive response to an action being done by someone. A clear violation of the code.
And, a clear violation of the trust given the auditor (and by extension, those who have participated in the session in any manner – C/Sing, being forced to watch by DM, whatever) by the PC. DM can stay in power all day long as far as I am concerned as long as auditors keep this trust sacrosanct. As far as I am concerned, violate this, and we all should just go home and become dishwashers. The game is over, and everyone lost.
Exactly. And the thing is, a true auditor does not even care about a PC’s secrets, because the whole purpose is to get someone better. You can’t get someone better by talking about how great summer school was (well, at least, not after ARC S/W and Self Analysis! 🙂 )
(Sorry Sudden)
Screw the references!!!
If YOU want to find a way to justify violating the trust a PC places in his auditor every time he goes in session it’s YOUR decision but it cannot be justified by claiming there is or isn’t a specific LRH reference.
I respect and enjoy most of your posts but I would never go in session with you.
No, you are right – I begged the question. To your point, I am anti-war, more and more so every year. The US had an all-out war with Hitler and the “Axis.” Had we all been more enlightened, war could easily have been avoided. From my point of view, Hitler was forcing a very badly played hand (on the Allies side) and forced the war. But the war could have been prevented in 1919.
🙂
Ralph, this has been a major issue in the counselling fields, e.g. – psychology, psychiatry, socialwork – for many years. At this point in time, in the USA, medical personnel working in, for example, a hospital emergency room, are required to report suspected cases of child abuse to authorities.
Psychologists in private practice are sometimes faced with an ethical decision when they learn of a serious crime being committed, such as child or spousal abuse, or some type of violent crime that has been committed or is likely to be committed, by the person’s own statement. What should they do? It is a difficult issue for anyone working in the counselling field.
“We are just making a documentary” – “which we are forced to do because Marty keeps following us around!”
Hardy har-har-har!
“We flew in from California, rented a house, a car, a golfcart, a paddleboat, a jetski and clownsuits so we could be followed by that stalker Marty Rathbun when he drives to the supermarket or the Tacqueria.”
“We are examples of the ability to think that life in the CofM brings about.”
Totally agree, Sam. Very well said.
The issue with Tom Cruise is that he reeks of David Miscavige.
And it quite an odor.
He is BFF (Best Friends Forever) with a sociopath.
He is an DM enabler.
He salutes DM at an INT invent (This is a navy /military ritual and has zero to do with a public celebrities) but is highly symbolic and portrays to the Sea Organization and the Public that DM is worthy of salute.
Cruise has used his identity to promote hapless individuals to join the vulture culture and be raped of their finances while receiving torturous “Golden age of Tech” with 3 swings of the needle.
If Tom is in denial about DM atrocities and beatings, then he is just more stupid and uninformed that can be imagined.
🙂
OOTWS,
Marty and I have had our …..er…..moments but he is one of the few people I respect and admire for not betraying confidences.
By the way if we applied ExDn Series 3 Auditor Administration there’d be nothing to reveal because any overt or withhold would be noted under “PC itsa”.
In my opinion the most important data to note down is not the overt itself but how the PC or Pre OT justified it because justifications are a fruitful source of computations and ser facs.
Yet this exactly the opposite of what they do at Squirrel group these days.
Oh, yeah. It is not worth what you would lose.
True, Tony, re pc stuff reported. Also, after C of $ spread their “Black PR” around my neighborhood to *every single home*—-my one neighbor went around (bless his ever lovin’ heart) and picked up EVERY SINGLE PIECE and brought it over to me. I still showed close by neighbors and made a YT video about it, telling their lies, and my side of it. NO ONE CARED. Bottom line is we *all* have crap–and the more they try to make it like “only this person does” the more insane they show how utterly insane they really are. Also, FTR: they have spread confidential info about me, for over 10 years now, onto the Web, as well as made up *tons* of lies, saying those are “true” when they are utterly false. My greatest thanks to you ALL who help expose this insidious organization, and their abuses.
Their day is here…and “your time is UP”, Davey boy.
Tick Tock……oh baby!
HI Valkov,
What would you do?
I think I have to post something on my website soon in fairness about what I can work with in terms of PPP.
My feeling is that people who have committed heavy crimes need to deal with that before they can make case gain.
So my inclination is to say that I cannot accept people for auditing who have undisclosed felonies and that they should make their peace with legal authorities before coming for auditing even if that means a few years in jail.
Absolution by a priest is not legal absolution and I think it fair to say that people cannot expect independent auditors to put themselves in legal jeapordy by refraining from reporting crimes. I see no ethical rational stance for the religious PPP when it involves harm to others which may continue.
Lana +5
Thanks for the warm welcome Erwin.
However I’ll go with Jimbo on this one plus add:
Are you kidding????
I mean if you really need a ref Erwin.
You could look at the HCOBs ‘Auditors Trust’ and ‘TRs and Cognitions’.
The Auditors Code specifically point 22.
Not to mention hundreds of years of history in regards to the inviolability of a confessional.
They degrade Placido as a performer, as a child, as a father, as a husband, as a being. They degrade his wife as a mother. And for what purpose? To keep the “field” clean? With this garbage? It is very hard to read. This is what the CofS has become. It is a hate group and this is clear evidence.
Jimmy – clean yer glasses laddie – it’s Poop on Box, not Pope.
ML Tom
Michael,
You set an example of integrity for all of us to follow.
You are very astute Watching Eyes to point out this quote from Janet:
“What they’re worried about, far more than what we think of them, is what their own members think of them.”
The Placido fiasco is about cutting off his comm lines to members of the Church. Nothing else.
If the world thinks this attack on Placido is abhorrent, well too bad for them. DM has plugged another hole in the dyke that holds the truth away from its members. All is well. Scientology and LRH’s reputation are sent to the toilet, but DM’s secrets are secure inside the cult.
The end game is all about DM. No one else. That’s why he will not stop this insanity.
I suspect Dan was just reacting to the injustice of it all and won’t do that, he ultimately won’t sink to the low level of Miscaviage, but miscaviage beware, you don’t know for sure that this won’t backfire on you….
After the judicial system is done with him he’ll be known as Pope on a Rope.
Grasshopper:
Hate site on Janet Reitman with shooped image to distort her face~~
(They hurriedly removed this site) This is the cached version.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FcRk45iSrKUJ:martyrathbunblog.com/uncategorized/reitman-rathbun-review/+Mark+%22Marty%22+Rathbun+Blog+janet+reitman&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
And true to the “religious” image ~~ here is an some excerpt
she (Janet Reitman) re-shat it out having only added copious bile to transform it from firm stool to fluid diarrhea,
Amen, Michael!!! As auditors we have sworn to and agreed to the Auditor’s Code and at NO TIME and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE should we compromise with it. The ones that use others’ confessions for their own vested interests will sooner or later fall…
Erwin
Check out point number 9 of the Code of a Scientologist.
“9. To refuse to impart the personal secrets of my preclears.”
Eric S
Jim,
Oddly enough, been working on just that stuff. Want to take it back to the “Big Bang” to find the exact postulates sitting there. The who’s and how’s. How all this force developed and persisted. How these gases attained “gravitational” qualities and merged to form more complex molecules like carbon. How the gases ignited in such huge stars which served to form iron and heavier metals. The exact nature of the postulates sitting behind neutrinos and how these quantities of neutral particles emerged. How space manages to expand so rapidly vis a vis the human viewpoint. Why the human viewpoint is so friggin’ limited and confining.
I know that it did/is. I just want to take it apart and gain better insight into the exact nature and mechanics versus theoretical nature and mechanics.
It’s one thing to have workable theory and another to apply it in such a way that you make furniture worth sitting on.
As a matter of practicality, human consciousness differs from theta consciousness at critical points. Just as human logic differs from theta logic at critical points.
One of these fine days, I might just leave this body sitting here and materialize in your living room so we can discuss the finer points of all this.
K#1:
Looks like Pope on a Box is working his dictaphone overtime!
And when his insanities are published, the lawyers see it and suddenly they try desperately to pull the footbullets back.
It’s been an amazing week.
The LULZ just keep on rolling.
🙂
Erwin
Also for your reference…
Auditor’s Code, Oct. 1980
22. “I promise never to use the secrets of a preclear divulged in session for punishment or personal gain.”
Eric S
Eric,
Sometimes, all I can say is, “cool.” Great insights.
I sometimes think a being clears on overts and withholds just as he clears on mental image pictures. After that, running them is just without value and tends to encounter overrun phenomena. At least it did with me.
Colwell
Sorry if you think I got all “serious” on Dan Koon. I follow the stance that one must be responsible for the communications one puts forward. Perhaps I am a bit “thick” but when one’s “satire” is that subtle, it perhaps needs a qualifier.
As far as: “AFTER ALL, DAN KOON AS AN AUDITOR, CERTAINLY KNOWS WHAT THE AUDITOR’S CODE IS.”
Look at the number of posts in support of his suggestion. You think some of them are not auditors? What about the untrained people here? You think they got the “satire” if that was what it was?
I also consider your last paragraph pure nonsense. They certainly are not in any way comparable. “Added inapplicable”
Eric S
I’m sorry to hear talk about exposing anyone’s priest-penitent data to anyone for ANY reason. That is sacred. Period. It frightens me to hear talk of it here. Please. Nothing every justifies violating the confidentiality of Priest-Penitent files which includes BOTH pc folders and ethics folders. Oh, I know the official Church people think they have “ways around all this” perhaps covered by some (not)brilliant lawyer handling.
I do not care what anyone ever does to me. I will never divulge priest/penitent data no matter whose it is, or how “just the cause”. That is what the Church is doing.
It is the most basic violation of trust and whether classified or not in the arena of public law, I think it is one of the most base and criminal of all acts.
Thank you Luis, but it’s your example I’m following, among others.
You are my brother.
Michael
One of the only good things about the Catholic religion was the sanctity of that confessional booth where you could freely confess your sins and receive forgiveness of such and move on without fear of repercussion. This has kept them alive for centuries. People want and need forgiveness and in one fell swoop DM has destroyed this sanctity and there is no turning back. Publishing them is bad enough but the added gross alteration is severe! DM revels in these “sins” to use for his own ends.
Imagine for a minute should the Catholic priests come forward and start revealing the sins of their parishioners who decided to leave the Church how dead in the water would the Cathoic religion be…such is the case at hand…
Mike
😆
Well, you should know, Sam. 🙂
(BTW-I would rather stick my hand in a wood chipper than mess with the likes of you. No wonder DM’s brain dead wonder squads are afraid of you!)
To all celebrities proud to call themselves Scientologists: Tom, Katie, John, Kelly, Kirsti, Lisa, Priscilla, Jenna, Mark, Sky, Nancy, Michael – and many more.
There are things to be proud of in being a Scientologist. Affinity, Reality, Communication, Knowledge, Responsibility, Control. The willingness to try and make a better world. Daring to try to move oneself up a little higher. Trying to make it possible for one’s family and friends to do the same. Keeping sacred the promise of confessional privacy on the journey to higher states.
In today’s Freedom Magazine, what do you see? Secrets from pc and ethics files being told in the name of justice? In the name of freedom? You came to the Church for solace, comfort, and succor. To be heard in your troubles, to bare your very soul of your own vices and shames, as part of your journey. Your journey to freedom. You relied on the sacred confidence of your disclosures. And for your friends and family also. That they should never fear the exposure of those things they confessed. These things are important to you. They were promise to you – to all who entered the confessional. You relied on this promise.
Some decry the breaking of the sacred and inviolate confidence between priest and penitent. Some believe that there is no cause that is so just as to support such a crime. There are a few who have spoken of abuses – and then private information protected by priest-penitent privilege has been published. You have seen it. The secrets. Told.
There are those who will NEVER do that to you. Those who honor their obligation of secrecy as a sacred trust. Forever. To the grave and beyond. Those who will never reveal your secrets, no matter the threats against them.
Some cry out for justice. Some believe that no-one has the right under the laws of man or God to violate the sacred confessional. Who will raise the roof to put a stop to such calamnity? Who will act to make true the promise of L. Ron Hubbard, a man who tried to do his very best to create church organizations that were safe islands of succor for those in trouble and need?
If there is shame for these current circumstances, it does not lay upon the name of L. Ron Hubbard. The shame lies upon those who act toward their fellows in a despicable manner, in the name of the Church of Scientology. And for those who support such actions, quietly by not acting, or by actively taking part.
Examine these matters and decide what you will do about these things.
One of the only good things about the Catholic religion was the sanctity of that confessional booth where you could freely confess your sins and receive forgiveness of such and move on without fear of repercussion. This has kept them alive for centuries. People want and need forgiveness and in one fell swoop DM has destroyed this sanctity and there is no turning back. Publishing them is bad enough but the added gross alteration is severe!
Imagine for a minute should the Catholic priests come forward and start revealing the sins of their parishioners who decided to leave the Church how dead in the water would the Cathoic religion be…such is the case at hand…
plainoldthetan posted: | July 11, 2011 at 4:36 pm | Reply
The thing that’s eating at my craw is that I have to stamp all my pc folders with a “priest/penitent privileged file” warning, and up in HCO, they have to stamp all the files with “priest/penitent privileged file”. This started after the FBI raid on ASHO. But, if the FBI can prove that it’s a sham, as in the Placido Domingo case, as in the case of other whistleblowers, then the FBI can go ahead and go through the files, since the CHURCH ITSELF WAS NOT TREATING THE FILES AS PRIEST/PENITENT PRIVILEGED.
Davey had better watch it as all his secrets will be revealed when the FBI makes its raid on Int Base.
It is not the priest with the privilege, but the penitent, isn’t it? So just because the Church has PROVED that it has violated their sacred trust, does not erode the rights of the penitent. So the FBI would have to ask the penitent if he/she wished to waive their right. It poses a lot of interesting legal questions, which hopefully somebody is following up on somewhere….FBI?? Attorneys?? Some HUMAN RIGHTS organizations maybe???
So, if it was not a punitive action it would have been ok? If it was to take away TC’s fear of his overts being all over the media and thus break Davey’s blackmail on him, to set him free and cognite, it’d been an overt of omission to not do so?
Thanks Eric, #9 is not in the revision and for # 22 see the discussion with grasshopper above.
What a delusion.
Thanks RJ,
As far as I can see the references refer to the auditors code. And there it doesn’t say that session data is sacred. If it were, LRH wouldn’t have revised the code of a Scientologist to exclude imparting data of pc´s.
That´s my loss.
I regard you as one of the most outspoken Indies and I have great respect for what you do for us and mankind. I sense a huge ARC you have for your family and great integrity toward your fellow men. That said, I will never ever screw any bonafide LRH reference nor my own integrity. I´m not willing to pay that price.
Yet another article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/8631091/Placido-Domingos-son-criticises-Scientologists-after-leaving-church.html
No need to stoop down to their level.
Miscavige has corrupted the meaning of “greatest good for the greatest number.”
His motto is really
The End Justifies The Means
Each time I argue with some scientologist regarding Marty actions, their answers are always “if he attack scn, he is an SP” “and everything should be done to destroy him.”
The one inside are not looking, they don’t want to look, they still hope that “it can be handled internally – write your KR….”
But more and more insanity coming from the Church prove again and again that it can NOT be handle internally.
The End Justifies The Means
I find a good explanation on the web that explain to me where it all went wrong.
The basic interpretation of “the end justifies the means” is:
“At the beginning of an action I might not be able to determine whether that action is morally right or wrong, but when the morally right goal is successfully achieved, then the steps which led to it must be morally right too.”
When a little twist is introduced to this interpretation, it becomes:
“I shall do a minor evil to achieve a greater good.” or
“My aim for greater good makes all the evils I have done right.”
Morality aside, “the end justifies the means” teaches us not to shoot ourselves in the foot:
If the vision, the goal which we have set ourselves is incomplete, then the worst thing that could happen to us is to accomplish that goal with all means necessary.
Be careful what you want, because you might get it.
And when you do, no amount of justification will help you.
Hello Mr. Fairman,
you must be a very sane person to be able to change your viewpoint and state it clearly.
Something Miscavige will never be able to, for a long long time.
Having lot of respect for you and what you have done, I would never make you wrong for any opinion you express.
Who would sentence someone with such production record for just one mistake?
It is scary to see this every day in the “Church”.
People give 20 or 30 years of their life to Scientology, and they are shoot at the first disagreement they voice.
You a great man Mr Fairman.
Love from France
NO, he emulates the Mob tough guy and the topic of Scientology is just coladoral damage, could be anything else if it’s in his path.
Again, no, it would not be okay. It would be a one-sided attempt to push your morality on someone else by threat of exposure, or actual exposure.
It is vindictive. It is not the greatest good. It violates trust. It puts the exposer in a Treason condition to the person, and, actually, to other auditors. The auditor is the person’s auditor, not his ethics officer, and not a crusader hell-bend on converting the PC to some cause or another.
The Internet never forgets 😉
So you use a limited clause and apply it to all circumstances, including those cases where it’s not punitive, not vindictive and not for personal gain, you still apply #22?
I don’t think Miscavige is afraid of his PC folder being made public.
I bet this guy never got any sec check.
Miscavige never wrote any o/w and never confessed any crime.
(who the fuck I am to think Mr David Miscavige may have any overts)
I doubt he is afraid of the FBI or the CIA.
All he is doing is making sure the real OT level will never be available by:
1. Distroying the PR of LRH and Scientology to make sure that no new public will ever come for services, while
2. Illegally regging the few left Scientologists into big debts, and
3. Making sure that all of them get squirrel tech (none can even get a proper F/N indicated.)
I believe this asshole is being paid and protected to destroy Scientology.
Erwin.
You seem to be splitting hairs for some reason.
Yes the current Code of Scientologist which is “Press Policy” doesn’t say folder data is sacred nor does the Auditors Code specifically say so.
Nor do they say that you shouldn’t beat the PC senseless with an Emeter either.
However let’s go back to what Dan had written and that was that he was threatening to reveal confidential (that is data held in confidence) session data which many of us consider a no no.
Now you can reason and justify that action until you are blue in the face Erwin but with many of us ministers it doesn’t wash.
Why?
Because the whole track is strewn with a person’s confessions being used to *punish* them if they did not get in line or as a means of extortion or black mail.
We are trying to end that cycle of suppression.
Vous remercient de vous des mots aimables.
Fire Breathing Frog,
I hope I haven’t butchered your beautiful language
I have no ready answers, Ralph.
It can get complex, as for example a woman you are auditing reveals her boyfriend has physically or sexually abused her child. In a hospital, in many places the staff are required to report this kind of information to authorities like the state’s department of Child Protective Services, or the police,etc.
You might start by researching what the state requirements and policies are in the state where you do your auditing. That might help you get oriented to the current cultural scene and how the ethics of such situations are viewed by the authorities in your area. I imagine many states have similar protocols in place for hospital staff.
Then, I would also look at the codes of ethics of psychologists, social workers and psychiatrists to see where they’re at with disclosure vs.confidentiality, and what they are required by law to do.
Probably could be found in course texts for psychologists/socialworkers etc. and probably online by Google. Hmm. I think I’ll research it a little myself out of curiosity…..
Then, I would hope I wouldn’t get such a client, but… it’s best to be prepared and know how you should respond to such a revelation by a client!
Beating your pc senseless with an emeter is a direct violation of the auditors code, the code of a Scientologist and the code of honour for starters but you’ve pinpointed my issue. Because of the danger of a group agreement new mores could evolve which would make session data confidential among Indies. This opens the door to throw overboard workable Tech, the very same MO Davey used to reverse it.
Auditor training would be hard if new auditors couldn’t talk about data from their pc’s, coaudits in one room with one supervisor would be abolished, worksheets wouldn’t be a running record but fully encrypted or destroyed after session, no video’s, cramming nor taping could be done, locked sound proof doors, etc, in order to promise your pc confidentiality and still the auditor sets himself up for (unintentional) breaking his promise and thus pc trust.
Also, I think it’s kind of cruel to make a pc sit on O/W’s discovered in session and not write KR’s after a certain amount of confessionals which couldn’t be done if session data was confidential. Unless he’s a shining beacon of self imposed ethics I think it’s crucial that he is guided by an able EO to take responsibility and move up the conditions.
I know Marty wears both hats very well but usually and definitely in big organizations those hats don’t do well together as their codes and actions are not entirely the same and thus there should be communication about the session among terminals.
Making a pc pay off his O/W’s by donations yields the robots we find in the Catholic Church and in Davey’s Catastrophedral. Stopping the comm. (and thus altering Tech) in order to protect the pc is no solution. The solution lays in genuinely moving up the conditions by truly defeating the shadows of past deeds. After that the pc is free and a tiger and no amount of threats, severed comm. lines nor blackmail could punish him ever again; ask anyone here who posts under his own name.
Also, when a pc in session is discovered to be f.i. a potential murderer or suicide or just plain PTS, it’d be impossible to use that data to protect the group. I’m happy to announce that even our government is, as we speak, changing its laws to get psychs to report liabilities (they created) and stop hiding (instigating from) behind their professional confidentiality codes.
Erwin.
Actually there is no prohibition against beating a PC senseless with an emeter as long as you don’t get angry with a the preclear while doing it.
Do you see what I mean about “splitting hairs”?
Of course auditors and C/Ses require the data in the PC or Pre OT’s folder to audit and C/S the case.
However the PC or Pre OT is pretty much aware that his confessions are not broadly published or used to black mail him and that what he says remains within the Tech or Qual divisions.
Personally as an auditor I never discuss the PC’s particular case outside of session beyond what auditing actions I was taking to resolve it.
Though to my horror and dismay there are some “auditors” who are more than willing to betray this confidence and use such information as an item of gossip or worse.
Unlike you I am not overjoyed at Government’s efforts to breach this confidence with *any* therapist including psychiatrists.
That my friend is a slippery slope!
One I would never applaud which could even cause blow back for the Government itself since even their own employees would be unwilling to talk to any therapist knowing that their confidences could be so easily breached.
Not to mention the field day for any opposition operative who waves the false flag that they are from the Government.
Aside from the fact that it is reprehensibly wrong!
What’s next?
Is the FBI or some other secret police agency wiring confession booths and auditing sessions.
Do you really want to live in a big brother fascism like that?
Time for the pc’s viewpoint I guess.
As a pc, I expect that what I say in session stays in session. I expect to participate in the process, get off the withholds and feel the relief, and it ends there. I do not expect that under some circumstances where the auditor’s concept of righteousness differs from mine, that the auditor will actually break this promise.
But it’s not really that it never goes beyond the session, there are other terminals involved. The C/S, all future auditors, FESers, review terminals, and if ethics is involved, then the E/O will have to at least know something. This I expect and this is OK – my expectation is that these terminals will know what I said in session to help my progress UP the bridge, and it will go no further expect to another terminals necessary to assist my progress.
I suppose that a duly constituted court of law with jurisdiction could compel the auditor to reveal what he knows. I don’t like that, but I wouldn’t hold it against the auditor.
If I am commit some heinous crime, I do expect the auditor to recognize that committing PT overts blocks case gain, and the auditor should tell me I cannot receive auditing till this rud is fixed. Then route me to ethics. This is right and proper, all done in the name of case gain. The E/O may well tell me to come clean with the cops and this is also OK.
It is not OK to make up a new Ethics Gradient called “Reveal session data coz the auditor thinks it’s the right thing to do”. That was never part of the deal and is definitely not the expectation I have of auditing. To my knowledge, LRH never once wrote or said that it’s OK to reveal session data, someone correct me if I’m wrong.
All the above is how I’ve always believed auditing should work. All the auditors I know personally think the same way.
Erwin, I don’t wish to attack you, but what you are saying in this thread is to me reprehensible. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have never actually, for real, faced the circumstance you are arguing for. But the very fact that you are trying to defend the action in some way tells me that I will never go in session with you as your pc.
A preclear just refused every chance to go into session with you. Think about that for a while.
BR
No rumor. She was paid. She told me so in an FB message, before the mass exodus of “friends” who still remain loyal to “NOB” (nut on a box).
Debbie: if you read this, realize that I know that you know that you have taken a very wrong turn, but have it very well justified. Wayne: same.
I once had enormous respect and admiration for you, Debbie. What I feel for you now is huge disappointment because you harm so many by your silence to protect you own ass. You’ve become someone else…have a nice life.
Eileen
I’m glad we agree that confidentiality is not to be promised to a pc as that would make comm. with other terminals impossible. But running a pc believing that it’ll stay among Tech and Qual sets you up for auditors trust breaks as in reality ethics, seniors, management and sometimes security, comm evs and twins get to read the KR’s.
Gossip about your pc is a gross auditor code violation (#2) just like slapping your pc with an emeter in session (#2, #3, #14 and #17).
I’m sorry you don’t share my joy with therapist being made responsible for their products. I guess you would, knowing your client is unstable, admires school shooters, just bought a gun, is planning to go out and kill as many people as he can, say and do nothing because it’s sacred information.
This attitude has just cost us 6 innocent lives and we’re fed up with that kind irresponsibility of the practitioner. We do weigh all dynamics and not just the sacred therapist/client relationship, something which could have come from LRH, but I guess you Americans are used to the shooting sprees and accept it.
I’m happy that when I was auditing at Flag in 1998 and discovered an intended suicide, the information was not treated confidential and all terminals on his lines were informed otherwise we would have had a second Lisa.
Splog,
I agree with your expectations of what is to be done with the session data of normal winning pc’s. I guess your auditor cleared up the auditor’s code with you.
LRH not only revealed many sessions completely, including confessionals (some with very wild overts) but also copied and broadcasted them widely (that’s LRH, not me). He actually made quite a song and dance about society resisting the invasion of privacy.
Of course those pc’s knew they were taped and thus no trust was broken. So I tell my pc’s when I tape them and never promise confidentiality, not only because I can’t guarantee it, it’s actually out Tech; the only reference I know is clearing the code with the pc.
As an auditor I’m not bound or sworn to secrecy but I am to fight for the well being of my pc. So my actions are guided by the pc’s well being and moving him up, rather than some ill conceived notice of what should or should not be kept secret.
You agree that if a pc is grossly out ethics and can’t resolve it himself or with the EO, police and courts should step in to protect not only the group but also the pc from committing more overts.
If the auditor finds out his pc has killed a couple of women and he sends him to the police but instead of reporting himself he kills a couple more, I think that for the spiritual well being of the pc and the protection of society, the auditor has a duty to report what he knows (notice he still doesn’t break the code and still works for the pc and the dynamics).
You and I are two dark ships passing in the night:
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/rathbun.shtml
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