Fear

Posted on August 18, 2011 by Mark C. Rathbun | 137 Comments

Fear not your enemies, for they can only kill you.

Fear not your friends, for they can only betray you.

Fear only the indifferent, who permit the killers and betrayers to walk safely on this earth.

– Edward Yashinsky

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137 responses to “Fear”

LO | August 18, 2011 at 8:55 pm |

no comment
Michael Fairman | August 18, 2011 at 9:05 pm |

Wonderful quote and essential to the elimination of tyranny in all its forms.
Christie | August 18, 2011 at 9:08 pm |

I love this. Brilliant.
Tom Gallagher | August 18, 2011 at 9:44 pm |

Thanks Marty for this quote; Profound truth. Let’s all continue to pour it on. That sawed-off lunatic in Helmet and his enablers have got it coming.
TOM M | August 18, 2011 at 9:45 pm |

Loud and clear Marty. Couldn’t be clearer. Here, this one will make me popular with a lot of folks:

From Ability Mag article Major 1 from Phoenix AZ, (of all places) (Pg 58 HCOB Vol III) LRH Says:

“Refusing to communicate, refusing to act, are like crimes of omission, of noncommunication.”

There, now let the missles fly.

ML Tom
Chuck Beatty | August 18, 2011 at 9:46 pm |

Listen, Scientologists believe in their own immortality, and the Code of Honor has points one can agree with regarding what’s really most important long range.

The Way to Happiness, “set a good example” and my favorite, precept 20, how to evolve truly exemplary human behavior for oneself, I personally found after my 27 years absorbing Hubbard, watching how the supposed big cheezes displayed Hubbard’s ideals, to me, it’s how much ARC/KRC and TWTH and Joy of Creation, and Precept 20 is senior Hubbard policy, and were THAT really what official Scientology did, for real, then this blog would NOT exist.

But this blog exists, because official Scientology is stuck on Hubbard’s negative output (DM is doing old Guardian’s Office “tech” and the old “HCO Manual of Justice”, as John Peeler has rightly pointed out elsewhere on the internet, THANKYOU BIG TIME JOHN PEELER, John is a true inspiration for people like me!).

Marty, you just need to keep remembering TWTH, Precept 20, you’re a powerful dude Marty! Thanks again for all you do, and “fear”, for everyone’s sake, just remember the Code of Honor, and remember Precept 20 (study Precept 20 a LOT, I recommend), and re-read and re-read again ARC chapters in the basic books.

I’m not a Scientologist, but there are parts of Hubbard’s output which I wish all Scientologists would MORE focus on. There’s nothing wrong with using ARC and KRC and Precept 20, and doing Joy of Creation, I believe.

Be high principled. Be decent, be kind, use ARC, build your own character and make the world around you a better place, if that is Scientology, then I agree with that.

And bringing up official Scientology’s failure to do its fundamentals, and instead doing the old Guardian’s Office “tech” that precdes The Way to Happiness “tech”, I for one, would give OSA and the intel and dirty propaganda and the old HCO Manual of Justice (thankyou again John Peeler for reminding the internet readers about the HCO Manual of Justice “tech”) should be eclipsed by ARC, TWTH (Precept 20), and Joy of Creation.

That’s my two cents when I think “high principled” stuff from L. Ron Hubbard.
Sam | August 18, 2011 at 9:47 pm |

Amen.
Cat Daddy | August 18, 2011 at 9:55 pm |

“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”: FDR’s First Inaugural Address

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

”Franklin D. Roosevelt had campaigned against Herbert Hoover in the 1932 presidential election by saying as little as possible about what he might do if elected. Through even the closest working relationships, none of the president-elect’s most intimate associates felt they knew him well, with the exception perhaps of his wife, Eleanor. The affable, witty Roosevelt used his great personal charm to keep most people at a distance. In campaign speeches, he favored a buoyant, optimistic, gently paternal tone spiced with humor. But his first inaugural address took on an unusually solemn, religious quality. And for good reason—by 1933 the depression had reached its depth. Roosevelt’s first inaugural address outlined in broad terms how he hoped to govern and reminded Americans that the nation’s “common difficulties” concerned “only material things.”

Please note that the audio is an excerpt from the full address.”
Lawrence | August 18, 2011 at 10:01 pm |

Now there is an idea worth mentioning. I have always felt that the people in this world whose job it is that grants authority to a bunch of QUACKS like the kind in the Church of Scientology should be held accountable for their actions. The church got “permission” from somebody, somewhere to do this in writing or it wouldn’t be. That person, organization, office, group or people should be made to answer.
Sinar | August 18, 2011 at 10:19 pm |

Chuck,
For a non-Scientologist, it seems you do believe, know and apply quite a bit of it! All good, Chuck!
O.O. | August 18, 2011 at 10:19 pm |

Tom M,

“Refusing to communicate, refusing to act, are like crimes of omission, of noncommunication.”

There, now let the missles fly.

Here you go, Tom:

Refusing to communicate – I have been communicating, here on this blog, on other blogs and to others directly, in person, in many ways.

Refusing to act – my actions have been to cut support – no support for more than 15 years by finance, succor, no support. (How long ago did you cut your support?) And by getting the true info out to whoever I can at whatever opportunity. (And who are you reaching now, anyway? It is one thing to preach to the choir, it is another to slog through the knee-deep mud in the Koolaid camp and try to illuminate truth and wake people up over there).

Now, you are making an A=A. Refusing to SAY MY NAME = refusing to communicate = refusing to act.

Sorry, I don’t need a be a “card-carrying” Indie approved by your committee of whoever, to know what side I’m on, and I don’t need to justify it to you, either.

Standing up openly and stating your name is an obvious good action. OK. So you said it. And you are communicating on this blog. Good. How many people did you get out of the cult this week, last week? You and I don’t have the same stats, dude. You might have WDAH, Releases, graduates, etc. Maybe mine is # people freed from direct cult connections, new people reaching for real Scientology. EACH of us actions has actions that are important. You may be part of the tech division action, but there are a whole lot more positions that need to flank those actions. A whole organizing board of actions.

I respect those who have “come out” and “stood up”. I also respect those who are EQUALLY important in fighting the good fight in many other vital ways. MY emphasis.

I look myself in the mirror and can respect what I see now. You do too. But you have no idea what I am doing (proud to keep my own counsel, and fight for what is right) “behind the scenes”. I say, too bad for you if you think that makes you better than me, or others like me.

Go ahead. Shoot me down. You can say I am the enemy, and I will still be YOUR friend, in spite of it, and continue to fight for freedom without your approval.

The great quote of Marty’s here:
Fear only the indifferent, who permit the killers and betrayers to walk safely o this earth.

A=A. Those who don’t give their names are indifferent.

Assumed identities are not identical.
Sinar | August 18, 2011 at 10:24 pm |

Short and sweet, from a guy who went through rough times!

Edward Yashinsky was a Yiddish poet who survived the Holocaust only to die in a Communist prison in Poland http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edward_Yashinsky
hadley | August 18, 2011 at 10:26 pm |

Nice piece of wording.It puts some order of some sanity to some degree with such words in looking at matters these days .Thank you for posting
Tory Christman | August 18, 2011 at 10:31 pm |

Unfortunately it’s the exact same group/organization that we ALL here in
the USA need to expose for their abusive taxes and actions: the IRS.
Ready? That’s why they persist….:sigh: I know, the basic on it is: HOW?
Hopefully one day that question shall be thought of as some odd problem that took all of the USA way too many years to figure out. Once we do, things will be *much* better for ALL, I truly believe. And groups like the phony “church” of $cientology will never be able to do what they are now still doing, and being protected by people who SHOULD, as their jobs, make sure they are NOT allowed to practice such abuses and get tax exemption at the same time.

German TV interviewed me recently, and they were truly shocked at what goes on here, re the abuses of C of $ and how complacent so many people, all across the USA (including all of our “Security”, “Police” etc) are. It should not be, as we all know.
George M. White | August 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm |

My viewpoint on this illusory fear is that there is no way that someone like David Miscavige could control anyone’s eternity. Thus, I use my own name because I would actually welcome the opportunity to confront him on the issue. In fact, I have publicly stated that I would meet with him in exchange for his peaceful behavior. Of course, he will never agree to meet but I make the offer out of compassion. I paid real money for his analysis of OT states and discovered that he was simply confused and ignorant. In addition, the harmful intent displayed by the squirrel busters only proves the defiled nature of the the minds of the lead OT’s.
As you know, I have not practiced Scientology for over 22 years. However, I do see real value in the independent movement. These “indies” are very valuable beings. I have a difficult time accepting the fact that so many talented people were shunned by David Miscavige. It is to his de-merit.
Let fear melt away on this issue. He is only an illusion.
Much loving-kindness,
GMW
PS May all beings be well and happy and without fear!
Tony DePhillips | August 18, 2011 at 10:51 pm |

True.
It bugs me all the people that criticize and second guess people like Marty and Mike and others. They give all sorts of high and mighty advice and yet cannot do the most obvious, right thing to do. Sure, you can have all sorts of reasons not to do the right thing.

I am positive that Marty and Mike could have all sorts of great reasons to sell out or to hide in fear.

Thankfully some people have courage.
LDW | August 18, 2011 at 11:08 pm |

Great quote, Marty.
More, not less communication is always the key in my book. Fear of communicating truth into an area is such a miserable state to be in.

I well recall the fear in me when we walked into Flag and told them that they were grossly out tech, delivering auditing suppressively, and that we wanted our money back.

Now that fear has turned to humor, because I soon realized that we lost nothing and gained our personal integrity back. Priceless that is.

One of my favorite quotes:

“The next time you think you’re having an awful lot of trouble somewhere, well, just wonder whether or not you can’t communicate with it. And if you communicated with it gently enough, it won’t backfire hard. If you communicate and—miscalculate a little bit and communicate too much or too fast or with too much velocity, it’s liable to come back and knock your head off. But that’s all right, put your head back on and communicate again. That’s always what you must do. The reason you stopped communicating in the first place is you lost a few heads, but what are heads? Expendable.”
— L. Ron Hubbard

Excerpted from the lecture Power of Choice and Self-Determinism, delivered on 29 October 1955.
joygraysen | August 18, 2011 at 11:30 pm |

We all have our reasons for “coming out” or “staying under the radar”. We all have our individual situations and circumstances. We all want as little loss and upheaval in our lives as possible. We all want to live in a free society and exercise our rights as human beings. I think I can safely say all of these things without being too far off the mark.
I have been on both sides of this coin so, at the very least, I understand my viewpoint from both sides of this fence.
So I will tell you from my experience, the freedom I now feel in my spirit by stepping into the light, was worth the loss and upheaval I have experienced.
This is not because I don’t miss my sister and my mother to my core. This is not because I don’t feel heartbroken for all of the lost friends/souls that are too implanted to see what’s really happening to them. It is not because I like upset and conflict.
It is because – I KNOW.
I know the truth. And I must know what I know – and I must be, do and have a life that reflects what I KNOW. Everything else, no matter how we may try to deny it – is a lie.
Every time you communicate with one of your friends or family that don’t know the truth, and you pretend that you don’t know the truth, you are perpetuating the lie and therefore you are contributing to it.
I’m sorry, I know how hard this reality is to swallow. But if you really ask yourself, and are honest, you will have to agree.
People who hear the neighbor beating his wife, but pretend it is none of their business, are contributing to her being beaten. People who knew what the Nazis were doing but turned a blind eye because they were not Jewish, etc., were contributing to the Nazis. Period.
All of the people who are still under the Church’s spell are in varying degrees of “not-isness”. We were able to see what was happening and removed ourselves, but there are still varying degrees of “not-isness” going on. The ONLY way we will ever be able to overcome this suppression is by collectively looking squarely at what “IS” and being willing to know it and to stand against it. We won’t get there by waiting on the sidelines and counting on a few brave soldiers to stand on the front lines. We will get there by ALL doing our parts.
I am not preaching to you about how you do this or what your timeline is. Like I said, we all have our situations and you definitely want to strategically make your move to create the least amount of turmoil as possible. But I AM preaching that we all must move towards truth and bravery and integrity. Create a “coming out” program and move through it!
MUCH love to all of you mighty souls.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Tony DePhillips | August 18, 2011 at 11:57 pm |

Very well said Joy. 🙂
Sinar | August 18, 2011 at 11:59 pm |

+100
“the freedom I now feel in my spirit by stepping into the light, was worth the loss and upheaval I have experienced.”
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 12:01 am |

There’s a lot of stuff LRH just cut-and-pasted from other religions and traditions. TWTH has little that could be considered “new” to the list of values.

That’s OK, though-imitation is the most sincere form of flattery! 😉

So it should be no surprise that Scientologists and non-Scientologists alike have most of the same common values. And when Scientologists duplicate the values of society, you’ll see acceptance of Scientology.

When they don’t, you’ll see rejection of Scientology.

Which of course, should come as no surprise to anyone, (except the Disco Midget.)
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 12:04 am |

Well, when LRH decided to call Scientology a “religion”, he was taking advantage of the First Amendment. Shrewd move, yes, but the bar for a religion is pretty low. And, I don’t think you can raise that bar without raising a lot of problems. Caveat Emptor.
Lana M. | August 19, 2011 at 12:05 am |

+100
Jack Airey | August 19, 2011 at 12:06 am |

From Joy Graysen’s lips to my ears….”I know the truth. And I must know what I know – and I must be, do and have a life that reflects what I KNOW. Everything else, no matter how we may try to deny it – is a lie.”

What else does one need to know? Thank you Joy for your wise words!!!
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 12:13 am |

He who withdraws his support and clandestinely works to bring people out of bondage is still resisting tyranny.
Centurion | August 19, 2011 at 12:16 am |

O.O.,

I dont really get that this post is meant to degrade or invalidate those who cannot come fully public with their names. It is simply making a statement that being indifferent, in this, or any activity of similar magnitude is not going to carry the day. I have posted why I am not public, yet I am not even close to being indifferent. Far from it. Those who have suffered abuse from Church gestapo are extremely aware of the damage that forced disconnection can do to business and personal relationships. For some, it is just a matter of timing. For others,there is no reason not to come out immediately.

I have spent countless hours outside this blog talking to non Scientologists who were interested in the subject but wanted nothing to do with the church. I have pointed out to them that there is such a thing as independent Scientology, which they were not aware of. If they reach further, I give them the names of the top 10 independent practitioners (by my estimation) and tell them to go for it. I figured I have kept a few away from DM and his Taj Mahal priestmunties. That makes me feel good.

Indifference is a state of inaction, not a name.

May the gods feed you honey…
Chuck Beatty | August 19, 2011 at 12:26 am |

Believe me Sinar, were I capable of believing that the soul is real, I’d be a Scientologist, and I’d goddamn go full bore focusing on just the things I think SHOULD be focused on, to help the world. As a fully (to the limited degree or advanced degree that I was) indoctrinated Scientologist who read and took seriously what I read of Hubbard’s, I can support what you independents ARE doing that is right! (I’m so wishy washy [suppressively reasonable], I’d love to see official Scientology reform itself to allow all former members access, if they wish to participate and attend events and do services as they see fit, in a reformed overall setup (when official Scientology gets around to making the major changes of lowered prices, discontinue disconnection/sp declaring, amnesty EVERYONE bar no one, repost OSA into TWTH, reform the front groups minimally letting all of them CUT their ties to Scientology Sea Org management entirely, so rather than flow funds UP to management, the front groups get funded by management, etc, etc). Sinar, you would not believe how much attention I “waste” thinking as if I were someone in Exec Strata advising Exec Strata like Exec Strata were the “think tank” that LRH defined Exec Strata as, in LRH ED 339R Int. All for naught though, really, in this internet age, of WikiLeaks, where the LRH Class 8 lectures are available, for anyone to listen, and NOT wait to be qualified to listen to them. I wish we had the tech films in the public domain, I wish ALL of LRH’s writings and tapes of comments in his final years were in the public domain, for ALL Scientologists to take responsibility, and even afterwards decide HOW to proceed in a “post David Miscavige” era.. The Hubbard dictum about if it’s not true for you, it’s not true, and if it’s true for you, for real, then proceed based on whichever it is, to me, to really be at “square zero” for people intending to BE Scientologists, it is SO IMPORTANT to have ALL of what LRH said and wrote, and that means getting what he said and wrote OUT to everyone who wants to be a Scientologist. Because LRH wrote lmited distribution stuff, because he wrote so many things to the different final years Sea Org bureaucracy units, that even the other top trusted units staffers might NOT have read, it is SO SAD to me, that this info was NOT all just made public domain by LRH, before he died. LRH should have said something like, in 10 years after I die, ALL of my writings and all of my private recorded spoken comments, ALL OF IT, goes on the internet, period! And he should have said Exec Strata and WDC have that same 10 years to deal with proposals about how the movement is to go forward in this current culture. In OEC Volume 2, there’s what is nicknamed the “blue pencil” policy, that mentions how some policy becomes antiquated. Well let ALL Scientologists discuss WHAT needs “blue penciling”! You independents, you really don’t have to do anything, but just do the tech on each other, and keep a few sites up, letting exiting official Scientologists know you are out here. All this crap done on Marty, I mean, were I Marty’s PR, I’d spin it sort of J.Walter Madman style, per Mission Earth, and constantly spin it saying Marty’s the obviously MOST effective ex Scientologist, look at how much crap official scientology gives Marty! (But seriously, were I allowed some degree of power in official Scientology, I’d just declare an International Amnesty, and make the preamble to the Amnesty a quote from the Ethics book, the page that says that it is an injustice NOT to take into consideration the positives of a person who even is found guilty of SP acts, which is the greatest, in my opinion, reason that an International Amnesty IS validly needed. Amnesty first, lower prices, downsize realistically, like years ago Keith Henson advised, repost ALL of OSA wherever they wished to go, but get RID of OSA and ALL of the negative “attack the enemies” “tech”.) I really appreciate your posts Sinar, thanks so much for being a normal human being and speaking your mind! I only wish WDC members and Exec Strata members were allowed to exist and read this blog and all the other internet anti Scientology stuff, and change out Miscavige.
Lawrence | August 19, 2011 at 12:38 am |

The Church of Scientology misused public broadcasting for years to promote their religion. Their commercial advertisements no longer appear on TV, radio or in magazines and newspapers.
Tara | August 19, 2011 at 12:41 am |

Hell yeah! 😀
Ralph Hilton | August 19, 2011 at 12:42 am |

DM is a nutcase and I left 30 years ago seeing the imminent inanity.
Lawrence | August 19, 2011 at 12:43 am |

Good girl! ARC Is always helpful. So, Tory now which one of us shall run for President and change these “God Forsaken Laws” that allow people like this to operate right out in the open? 🙂 Tory, if DM ever became President, God as my witness you can write me in Antarctica. Call me the explorer. 🙂
Cowboy Poet | August 19, 2011 at 12:44 am |

The shepards and wolves need a flock. You’re never getting much done with them anyway–except dinner.
Ralph Hilton | August 19, 2011 at 12:44 am |

yep :.-)
Tara | August 19, 2011 at 12:46 am |

So true, Joy. Amen sister.
O.O. | August 19, 2011 at 12:54 am |

Thanks Centurion.

I’m pretty much going to wait for Tom M’s answer because of his prior stands on so-called fence-sitters, those-who-don’t-come-out, etc.

As though only those with names have the highest status on this blog or in the “indie community” and the rest are simply less than..

Each chooses his way. Tom invited the missils to fly, and I don’t think I misconstrued his meaning, but I will correct myself if wrong.
O.O. | August 19, 2011 at 1:07 am |

No. I do not agree. I will not “come out” until the CofS is finished, or reformed. Makes me less than you, does it? You may bask in your light, and I am happy for your feeling good about it all. Some fight on the front with words, weapons, whatever. Some fight in the very camp of the enemy. Your words do not sway my decision.
Mike Hobson | August 19, 2011 at 1:14 am |

If you think Ron Hubbard “just cut-and-pasted from other religions and traditions”, then I reckon you are sadly misinformed.

The key to what data and principles are found in Scientology which superficially appear to be from some other subject is contained in Scientology 0-8: The Book of Basics. The Q’s, The Logics, The Factors, the Scientology Axioms and the Dianetics Axioms.

Nothing is in Scientology theory or Tech that does not align with the above.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Joe Pendleton | August 19, 2011 at 1:16 am |

Interesting quote, though not totally true for me. It’s not just the indifferent who permit the killers and suppressives to do their deeds. Actually very few people are just indifferent to suppression. They are usually in terror when it comes to confronting suppression or evil (or even driven lower into apathy). In Scientology over the past 40 plus years, I would say that it is more the ones in full dramatization of the worst parts of the 3rd dynamic on the track, than the indifferent, that you really have to be on guard against (as enemies who are out to destroy one). I don’t think it’s really a matter of who “comes out” or who doesn’t come out as being the key point or issue. From my own current perspective in life, the key issue is the “have to” and the force imposed on people as to HAVING to communicate or being forced to NOT communicate or threatened with dire consequences if they DO communicate to someone or on some subject. I’m interested in freedom as an individual to act or not act, to communicate or not to communicate, based on my own viewpoint as to what is survival for me and others. I think LRH started down a very bad road in the mid 1960s when he decided it was now up to him to ENFORCE on Scientologists how they communicated and acted. Ron was certainly entitled to his own viewpoints as any being is. It’s just my own opinion that there have been dire consequences as a result of him deciding what you HAD to do to be a true group member (end of KSW). Actually even that is perfectly fine with me. What is not fine is that this viewpoint was imposed with FORCE and threats and consequences if one did not “follow the power.” I felt this even on staff in the early 70s and it slowly, got much worse, and thus you get the scene you have today.

So, to me, yes, indifference to evil is very bad. As is doing evil. But know that evil is ALWAYS accompanied in some way with forcing another to relinquish their own self-determinism and power of choosing themselves how to act and communicate.
WindWalker | August 19, 2011 at 1:30 am |

Chuck Beatty

WOW. Now that was a real earfull…. Thank you for all of that. If I am ever asked who I think would be a good person to have on an “advisory” type council, regarding the organization, or reorganization of Scientology, I will forward your name.

I do not agree with everything you wrote, but then again I doubt that I agree with everything anybody has ever said or written, including Ron Hubbard.

But DAMN… I love when someone has thought things out for themselves and has an opinion.

As a supervisor, the absolute worst thing to deal with were students who simply agreed with everything they heard or read. They “believe” in Scientology, they “believe” in the tech, but I would be very suspect of their “understanding” of anything.

I definitely do not see you in the third category in Marty’s post above, and I would let you guard my back any time..

Thank you for being here with us, whatever you call yourself.

Eric S
Lawrence | August 19, 2011 at 1:31 am |

Chuck, if the Church of Scientology ever wanted to be REAL to anyone on this planet, they might start by trying to drop their prices first of whatever it is they think they have to offer. Good idea huh? Supposing that such a thing as planetary clearing could take place, the amount of WDAH’s it would take to do so, would cost more at this moment than most international government’s treasury’s could finance if they took out loans from other planets! 🙂 So, how then could the church ever be in a financial bind?
mrinder | August 19, 2011 at 1:32 am |

Eric – 100% agree with you.
martyrathbun09 | August 19, 2011 at 1:33 am |

You have no idea what a missile is, nor clearly does anyone engaging in ridiculous written tiffs in response to the post at issue.
TroubleShooter | August 19, 2011 at 2:10 am |

O.O.,

I wonder if this matter of coming out is similar for you O.O. as it is for me…it’s KILLING me not to join the group that’s doing what I dedicated my life to doing – KSW. There isn’t one day that goes by that I don’t create that group around me, being a part of it without banging my head into the radar…The point that’s been repeated here and in the previous post is that there’s strength in numbers. I mock it up every day – being willing is covered and I’m on the battleplan to be ABLE to communicate freely, openly, overtly, publically to ANYONE I chose and I chose the Indie field.

We’ll meet O.O. and we’ll look back on this time and be so glad that we’re not there anymore!

I look forward to it. I look forward to meeting all of you.
Karen#1 | August 19, 2011 at 2:14 am |

This is really a good article and it answers a lot of questions.
Also, everyone can do something, whether anonymously or with full name.
http://blog.savescientology.com/
one of those who see | August 19, 2011 at 2:17 am |

Hi O.O,
I am not in a position to “come out” either. It is not the greatest good for me at this time. However, I am doing what I can do from my position and I am in comm with various people. One of whom, was sitting off lines and when filled in with the data from the internet, has put his Clear Bracelet back on and supports the Indie movement. I am also working on getting someone help from an Indie Auditor.
Having said that, I don’t have a problem with Marty or Joy’s comm. It does help the movement when people who can come out, do. So periodic promotion of that is fine with me.
All the best on your journey.
Sinar | August 19, 2011 at 2:22 am |

As you wish!
Bryan U. | August 19, 2011 at 2:22 am |

Two words: JOHN HANCOCK
Sinar | August 19, 2011 at 2:24 am |

Ditto. Thanks for the kind words, Chuck!
exilo | August 19, 2011 at 2:32 am |

Really good quote Marty and very true. The last two posts impinged on me in that we cannot leave this criminal continue destroying so many good people’s lives. I am going to work out a way to come out of the woodwork’s. In the meantime I will create as much damage to the evil empire as I can stand.

exilo
joygraysen | August 19, 2011 at 2:33 am |

The only thing that makes you “less” is your hostile antagonism.
I am not trying to sway your decision or judge you in any way. I’m simply giving you my viewpoint from my experiences.
Fight however you like – just target the right enemy if you don’t mind!
Thoughtful | August 19, 2011 at 2:55 am |

+1
David | August 19, 2011 at 2:57 am |

To misquote St. Francis of Assist, “Preach Scientology always, and if necessary use words”.
Tory Christman | August 19, 2011 at 2:57 am |

Thanks 🙂 Hey…ditto…I’ll be right there with ya. I don’t think we have
to worry about Davey boy becoming President—1,000% No WAY~!
The Count | August 19, 2011 at 3:27 am |

+1 LDW
David | August 19, 2011 at 3:28 am |

Another quote this one from Edmund Burke, “The only thing nesessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
this from “Thoughts on the cause of present discontents” “When bad men combine, the good must associate: else they fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle”
David | August 19, 2011 at 3:30 am |

Ben Franklin ” We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang seperately.”
one of those who see | August 19, 2011 at 3:32 am |

CCINT just emailed me this great LRH quote:
“What you decide is LAW to you. What you evaluate is evaluation to you.
“SELF-CONFIDENCE is nothing more than belief in one’s ability to decide and in one’s decisions.
“MOST PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE UNCONSCIOUS MINDS OR BACKGROUNDS OF MOTIVATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE REFUSED THEIR OWN POWER TO DECIDE.
“Negation of decision, refusal of decision, letting others decide are the most powerful sources of aberration. They apply to any and all subjects.”
— L. Ron Hubbard, Handbook for Preclears

I had a personal breakthrough in this area recently. So it is cool to see this quote.
David | August 19, 2011 at 3:33 am |

Thoughts on the Car wash,
“The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity”, Harlan Ellison
RJ | August 19, 2011 at 4:12 am |

I second that Big M.

Also as you well know Eric that’s why Ron wrote the PL Supervisors Stable Data.

These people who try to turn Scientology into some kind of faith based religion are the greatest enemies to the subject.

Chuck,

Got your back on that one.

Years ago I recommended to CST that they release Ron’s original handwritten HCOPLs and HCOBs in book form.

Many not all of these were handwritten by the Ol’ man and sent to mimeo.

Others were compiled by L Comp and later RTRC from his notes by his direction or order.

Of course that suggestion went over well 🙂

Like the recommendation I gave to RTC that they CANCEL the Golden Age of Tech.

Not possible with the current regime right now but would keep a lot a good people busy sometime in the future.

Personally I disagree with releasing Advanced Course that is material that has been labeled confidential such as power and above to the general public for technical reasons.

Not that it can’t be handled with standard repair but it just slows the progress of the case and makes it difficult to audit.

Also it gives unscrupulous individuals access to information that they can use to harm others.

Sure it may not kill them or give them pneumonia (though I have noted several cases that mysteriously contracted pneumonia after being
exposed to confidential data) but trust me running an item on R6 out of sequence will make you wish you were dead.

Reading about it and actually *running* it are two different things!

It’s nice to read about engrams too.

But I doubt if anyone on this board would like to be stuck in the middle of one with all perceptics turned full on because the “auditor” decided to break for lunch or the “auditor” noted you ran out of hours or something while you were being burned at the stake in the town square.

So Chuck I don’t agree that the whole enchilada be made available to the public and the fact that it is just shows up the incompetence of RTC.

Regarding confidential GO Dirs and strat planning.

Sure!

Why not?

They were limited at the time because Ron didn’t want the bad guys like SMERSH for example in on our defensive actions for preventing full seizure and control of the organization which seems academic and moot now since they obviously succeeded.

So on that point all confidential directives to the GO, RAs, OODs and FOs to SO staff should all be broadly issued.

Including the HCO Manual of Justice, the Snow White Program and the various projects and the all time favorite of critics ‘Targets, Defense’.

However in releasing those they should be put into historical perspective as well.

The fact was that they were originated at a time when Hoover’s COINTELPRO, CIA’s CHAOS and NSA’s Shamrock was in full operation and Government spent a lot of time trying to suppress any dissent.
J. Swift | August 19, 2011 at 4:19 am |

People kill, and, some of them are motivated to do so by what they deem to be scripture, the “Law of God” or some other “Higher Law” that they believe elevates them above human laws. Such religious extremists become Legalists, for they insist that their scriptures are the only possible truth in the entire universe.

The Apostle Paul warned Christians about legalism when he wrote:

“The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”

Mindless, literal adherence to “letter of the law” in scripture results in religious brutality. To this point, one of the reasons that critics oppose the Church of Scientology is due to the criminal ways in which it behaves as an organization, If you look at CoS over six decades, its long term behavior as an organization is generally reprehensible.

CoS has been far too consumed by internal and external fighting, self-created negative PR, greed, lawsuits, and a war over controlling its technology to accomplish anything significant at the level of Culture.
One of the central questions is this: If the Tech is so good why is the Church of Scientology so monstrously bad?

******
Only Spirit can give Life and Freedom.

The Letter will always kill Life and Freedom. This legalistic and vile Cult of Scientology has wasted and destroy people with an evil extravagance and vengeance unparalleled in modern religion.

There is no Spirit, Life, or Freedom inside of the Cult of Scientology, The Cult seems to only be about the worship of Money. And why are production and stats so valued in CoS if they lead to so much human suffering?

When does the Suffering end and the Enlightenment begin in Scientology?

When is the promise of the Tech realized?

******
Culture is realizing on an increasing basis that this mad Cult of “Money-Greed Scams” called Scientology needs to be stopped. The relative indifference of the past changed in a big way in 2005 to vast ridicule and repudiation.

This ridicule and repudiation began to shift to moral outrage as former Sea Org stood up and exposed the violent abuses. Now that rank and file publics are joining former SO in increasing numbers and exposing the Cult, the moral outrage in Culture against the Cult continues to grow.

/////
RJ | August 19, 2011 at 4:26 am |

Sorry I beg to differ Tory.

No Government should have the right by taxation to determine what is a religion and what is not.

If anyone in the Church is violating the IRC they should be brought before the Tax Court and be made to pay any of the money back that they obtained illegally or turned over to a criminal court for evading taxes.

To penalize groups or minorities is just another form of Jim Crow.

The law should be interested in *individuals* who break the law.
Luis Garcia | August 19, 2011 at 4:26 am |

Joy,

Your words convey exactly my viewpoint. Well said!
RJ | August 19, 2011 at 4:31 am |

Mr Fancy,

He called it a Religion because it *is* a Religion since it deals with the spirit what we call a *thetan*.

Not because the Ol’man wanted a tax break.

It is just as much a Religion as any other field that deals with the rehabilitation of the human spirit.

To argue otherwise is just idiotic.
David | August 19, 2011 at 5:02 am |

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”
George Orwell
O.O. | August 19, 2011 at 5:16 am |

Thank you TroubleShooter. It’s not the same for me, but I appreciate your kindness and my heart goes out to you. I worked hard to help, Scientology since mid 70’s, Sea Org nearly 20 years. Hearing that Mike Rinder left was the final catalyst that opened my eyes. I have been working with renewed vigor ever since.

The ARC and encouragement that is so often generated on this blog gave me hope in dark hours; this and more blogs filled in the missing pieces of the puzzle of horror. I honor the warriors here, the NAMED, especially Marty, Amy, so many – the folks on the news shows and whose books expose the abuse perpetrated in the name of good. And the un-named. No-one can judge which action finally tips things over the precipice, all actions contribute.

I hope you meet those you want to connect with so strongly. There is strength in numbers, but to me there is more strength in truth.

When you are finally able to communicate the way you want – freely, openly, overtly and publically to anyone you choose, then you will know all the names. There will be no barrier because the human degradation, blackmail, and threats that spew from the church of scientology will be terminatedly handled, one way or another.

My name will not be among the heros that will be celebrated. I will be anonymous. No praise. My reward will be the satisfaction of the finished job.
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 5:19 am |

I’m counting at least 18 of the 21 precepts of TWTH can be found in the Bible, (and often more succintly put). And while I’m not as familiar with other religious traditions, I’d put even money that Buddhism and Islam also have similar teachings for at least as many.

I reckon you are sadly misdirected about where these teachings originally came from.

But again, truth is truth. If LRH found value in them, then he joins with the experience of millions of souls throughout history. Thou shalt not murder, Thou Shalt Not steal, Honor thy father and mother, those are all good rules to live your life by-I don’t care what church you go to.

But, I’d reckon that there is plenty in Scientology that does not align with TWTH, or the books you mention. Fair game, Disconnection, controlling people’s thoughts by restricting their access to information, and other behaviors that are railed against here by most of the people commenting on this blog come to mind.

These are policies in Scientology that should rightly be piled in the dustbin of history. And I’d hope that the Indies can do that to bring Scientology more in line with the morals of greater society by doing just that.
Tony DePhillips | August 19, 2011 at 5:20 am |

Of course people “under the radar” can “do things” to help.

I don’t think Marty is saying that they can’t. What I think Marty is suggesting is HOW TO END DM.

The way to end him is to make waves.

It isn’t going to happen by whispering to a friend or going to an event an not donating. This is not the correct estimation of effort.

It will happen when enough people grow some balls and say what they see, LOUDLY.

This will rock peoples universe. It will bring things to a head. It will cause people to WAKE UP.

Sometimes I think that some of the same people that say it “isn’t the greatest good” to come out in the open now, would, if push came to shove, totally deny what they believe, becaue it isn’t the “greatest good” to tell the truth. It isn’t the “greatest good” to stand by your friends. It should be the “greatest good” to be “safe” and “hidden”. Yes, that’s real safe, real ethical, real integrity.

I guess it is the “greatest good” to wait and let others take all the heat and THEN come out into the open and declare that “you were the MAN” back when things were really hot.
Joe Pendleton | August 19, 2011 at 5:21 am |

David, I think you are right on with those quotes. I will also point out that the participants on this websesite are all doing something. None of us are “doing nothing.” We are all of us, good people, associating with each other. (and I don’t mean to imply that you think otherwise, I’m just pointing it out)
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 5:24 am |

They may not be buying any national TV advertising at the moment, but they are still promoting their commercial advertisements. They are active at getting out internet ads and Craigslist, for example. And they shot a new line of commercials not that long ago. (I think they probably regged a lot to get the commercials, ran them for a week or two, then pocketed whatever money was left over.)
Scott Campbell | August 19, 2011 at 5:25 am |

When one cannot make up one’s mind as to an individual, a group, organization or project a condition of Doubt exists. The formula is:

1. Inform oneself honestly of the actual intentions and activities of that individual, group, project or organization brushing aside all bias and rumor.

2. Examine the statistics of the individual, group, project or organization.

3. Decide on the basis of “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped.

4. Evaluate oneself or one’s own group, project or organization as to intentions and objectives.

5. Evaluate one’s own or one’s group, project or organization’s statistics.

6. Join or remain in or befriend the one which progresses toward the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics and announce the fact publicly to both sides.

7. Do everything possible to improve the actions and statistics of the person, group, project or organization one has remained in or joined.

8. Suffer on up through the conditions in the new group if one has changed sides, or the conditions of the group one has remained in if wavering from it has lowered one’s status.
Joe Pendleton | August 19, 2011 at 5:27 am |

That’s a TREMENDOUS quote and completely true for me. It’s a datum that I aspire to live by every single day. And I’m not making a joke when I say that it will be ME to decide if I want to go bowling and WHEN I want to go bowling and with whom I want to go bowling with. (I actually haven’t gone bowling in about 35 years, but y’all understand why I used that as an example. I’d rather go to an Indian restaurant and have a good meal, which in fact I will be doing in about 10 minutes, right after I turn off the computer).
Scott Campbell | August 19, 2011 at 5:27 am |

Sorry, I forgot to attribute the above to LRH!
Joe Pendleton | August 19, 2011 at 5:30 am |

Back many years ago when I used to work in New Orleans, there was a saying plastered on T-Shirts, caps and mugs which said “It’s not the heat; it’s the stupidity; New Orleans, La” Actually I think folks know how to live better in New Orleans than in most places, and it’s one of my favorite cities for sure, but I think the general point is well made.
Erwin Croughs | August 19, 2011 at 7:11 am |

Selling out or hiding in fear are just about the greatest overts one can do to oneself, the woof and warp of the dwindling spiral.
Erwin Croughs | August 19, 2011 at 7:28 am |

I like it, Joy,
Just compare it to the heartbreak you would experience once your lost friends/souls find out you knew but didn’t tell them.
The Count | August 19, 2011 at 7:59 am |

Thank you Karen! I read the article and have printed out the letter to sign and will be sending it today! I urge everyone on here to click on the link Karen provided and read it and send a letter!
theoracle | August 19, 2011 at 8:42 am |

Did someone summon up missiles flying? You might want to fire one at me! I had put aside the folders you accidently left here with all of your work admin stuff from David Morse and Associates. The adjuster slips and stationary. When you didn’t come around looking for it after a few months I just tossed it. Glad to get that off my chest.
Ed Paulson | August 19, 2011 at 10:28 am |

+100
George M. White | August 19, 2011 at 11:13 am |

RH,
Great, . I left after one meeting with him in 1989.

Much loving-kindness,
GMW
Cowboy Poet | August 19, 2011 at 12:04 pm |

That is some real and honest words right there!
George M. White | August 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm |

David,
My favorite Catholic Saint:

“Praised be You my Lord with all Your creatures,
especially Sir Brother Sun,
Who is the day through whom You give us light.
And he is beautiful and radiant with great splendour,
Of You Most High, he bears the likeness.”

Much loving-kindness.
GMW
martyrathbun09 | August 19, 2011 at 1:27 pm |

Brilliant Joy.
martyrathbun09 | August 19, 2011 at 1:29 pm |

That right there is why we love you Bryan.
martyrathbun09 | August 19, 2011 at 1:40 pm |

You are so right Karen. One reason for posting – which has apparently fallen on deaf ears – is that a lot of people who talk the talk are misrepresenting that they are doing anything. As you well know I’ve got a network that spreads far and wide and I have a pretty good sense of what is going on. The back up during the siege has been dismal, and some vampire personalities have creeped in to profit off the distraction at our expense. I sense the siege has been turned into a vehicle for the entertainment of dilletantes. I am not in this to entertain, though I do try to keep it up at 22.0 as much as possible. I am tiring of cheerleaders. And thus, a major change of axis is in the works. Thank you for all you have done and continue to do. You are a stalwart in a small group of heroines who will be remembered in history as saints.
George M. White | August 19, 2011 at 2:06 pm |

JSwift,
“One of the central questions is this: If the Tech is so good why is the Church of Scientology so monstrously bad?”

Well, a lot of people have recieved some benefit as the record shows.
However, you might try out a few of these reasons for size:
1. Personal survival as a primary goal.
2. No belief in a divine being.
3. Conquest of the known universe as a goal.
4. Materialism
5. David Miscavige and his beatings with fists.
6. Lack of Compassion.
7. Ill-will towards disconnected former members.
8. Conceit that Scientology is the only way.
9. Avarice and greed for money.
10. Extreme secrecy and willingness to attack.
11. Justification for harm.

Much loving-kindness,
GMW
Joy Graysen | August 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm |

Can I get an “AMEN”!!!!!
Grasshopper | August 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm |

Chuck, I agree fully. If the church is to survive as a legitimate source of Scientology, it will have do to pretty much the program you outline.

But, the future of the subject lies in Independence. Independence not just from the church, but from other people’s opinions and judgements. Code of Honor. And What is Greatness.
tunedal | August 19, 2011 at 2:34 pm |

I agree. It was good to read this, Tony.
Polymath | August 19, 2011 at 3:13 pm |

“I have a difficult time accepting the fact that so many talented people were shunned by David Miscavige. It is to his de-merit.”

LFBD.
David L | August 19, 2011 at 3:20 pm |

J Swift,
We may have lost our Satirist/Humorist with the disappearance of OTDT & his deep-cover operative Deep Fax,
but you help fill that void as an Essayist par excellence.
I always enjoy your take on things…
Sinar | August 19, 2011 at 3:27 pm |

Amen!!!
One Pissed Off Mexican | August 19, 2011 at 3:38 pm |

This is a message to Miscavige and his band of Thieves:

L0ng time ago, when LRH was still around, Mexico was chosen to be a country where scientology and Dianetics could flourish and proper, along with it’s population. I was an active participant in the pioneering dissemination of LRH’s work, and we even had an Org and various franchises busy delivering the Tech.
Last year you moved in with your “ideal Org”, prelude to robbing the Mexicans blind (you think: who cares, they are only Mexican, so I can cheat and lie to them). But if you think that, you are mistaken. I am personally afronted by your lack of respect of people and other cultures so I, along with some Mexican Government contacts and other influencial ex’s in Mexico City, are going to be working hard to expose your Ponzi scheme. And to end this, I would like to remind you, in a simbolic way: Remember the Alamo!

OSA BOTS: Relize the world is turning against your beloved boss. Bail out and join the real world of Scientology before you all end up in jail or destitute after he throus you out for not fully supporting him i.e Failed Mission.
Love
OPOM
Publius | August 19, 2011 at 3:44 pm |

Thanks for pointing this out RJ.

This idea that LRH called Scientology a religion because he wanted a tax break is a great example of the service fac in action. Put an idea up there as a substitute for confronting.

There are countless examples of this especially as regards LRH. I love the one, also expressed here and elsewhere, that he just pulled in a lot of ideas from other practices and religions and sort of reworded it all and voila! – Scientology appeared.

My answer to all those who seem to want to devote their lives to tearing down LRH and Scientology is, show me one set of writings from anyone, past or present, that lays out the laws of life and existence that is more succinct and clearly stated than the Axioms and the Factors.

Show me one technique developed by anyone for handling trauma that works as or more effectively than engram running.

Ain’t gonna happen.

There are obviously all sorts of reasons to criticise the DM regime and do everything possible to undermine it and bring it to an end. But there’s also a lot of other criticism that amounts to little more than natter from people who do not understand the subject or who appear never to have had a real win from their experience with it.

There’s an important new article at http://www.savescientology.com which lays out a whole series of very effective action steps that can be implemented whether one is 100% “out” or still flying “under the radar”. I believe one key to enlisting more allies in this battle lies in raising awareness on the part of those still “in”, not by calling them names or making them wrong, but by helping them to look at some facts that are not widely known – such as how DM unmocked the legal structure set up BY LRH to administer Scientology after his passing.

Just as during the time of the abolitionist movement in the US (which actually spanned decades), the blinders come off some more rapidly than others. It is up to those who see to continue the process of helping their fellows see too.
Tom Gallagher | August 19, 2011 at 3:52 pm |

Karen,

Thanks for this info and link. It would have flown under my radar. I will implement the instructions forthwith.

Tom Gallagher
Tom Gallagher | August 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm |

I think this will work:
Tom Gallagher | August 19, 2011 at 4:26 pm |

A thought:

Silence is golden? Duct tape is silver.
moneca | August 19, 2011 at 4:41 pm |

I left after seeing him with his minions at Flag in mid 80’s. His space was so black and his confront zero … gave me the knowingness the future of the COS would not bode well under his reign.
ΘTater/GaryLerner | August 19, 2011 at 4:59 pm |

CP, “Looking back” on it… yep, you’re right! 🙂 — “Pass the biscuits, please.”
Ingrid smith | August 19, 2011 at 5:08 pm |

Publius-Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Mike | August 19, 2011 at 5:09 pm |

Marty,
Last week, I watched a movie/PBS show from Netflix called “The Buddha” and your quote today reminded me of it. I am not a buddhist, but I think you would really enjoy the program. Thanks!
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm |

Well, I surely would not to be “idiotic”, so I won’t argue the point about whether or not it is a bona-fide religion with you, RJ. And FWIW, I personally believe that Scientology meets the criteria of a religion, due to numerous factors that I need not outline here.

That said, Let’s look at the facts:

Surely you cannot argue with the fact that LRH, at first, said that Scientology was *not* a religion in 1954 in “Creation of Human Ability”. Yet, this changed. Why?

It seems to me that you may have confused the idea that is a religion with the *motivation* behind the change from being a “poor man’s psycho analysis” to a “religion”, which is the point I was addressing.

As a Scientologist, you are supposed to “look” for yourself to get all the data before forming an opinion, yes?

If so, I’d recommend you read up on Larry Brennan. He was in the GO from 1974-1984, and one of the lead architects behind the corporate structure of Scientology. From his affidavit dated May 6, 2008,(available online) I quote the following:

“It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services, money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied…”

That said, I continue to support your right to practice Scientology outside of the CoS, because you have a First Amendment right to do so.

Regards,
Mr. F
Tory Christman | August 19, 2011 at 7:03 pm |

RJ,
I guess you left before the big event where Davey boy announced
“THE WAR IS OVER”??? Marc Headley in his book: Blownforgood, details what happened, quite well re that event. (It’s actually very funny)

I agree with you re the IRS____I’m just saying Dave announced HE went and “handled the IRS” and how the “church” (Which IS a business–no question about it) has “tax exemption”. Even ministers I’ve met with were ticked off about *that*, from other religions.

I’ve never met *a* person in the USA who is “Happy” with the IRS.
Some serious changes need to be made so it IS helpful for the
individual, not just the corporations who know and have the Money and attorneys to set it up “right” for them. My best, TLC
theoracle | August 19, 2011 at 7:39 pm |

O.O. , Thanks you for all of your support to the cause. Marty has a right and even obligation to ask for support. He is representing most of us. That does not discount in any way who you are or what you are or what you are doing. It does not invalidate the good you have done or the power that you are. But there are plenty of people that could step forward in support who are only restrained by thoughts of fear or discomfort, not logistics. He is asking those people to rise above the fear and step forward. And he is right in that it would be healthy for them to do such.
And from time to time when he urges them to do this, more do come forward. And that has been a beneficial result for all of us. Not every person can stand in every winners circle in every game. It is contributing to the purpose that will make us all winners in some final chapter. And in that, we can all celebrate a victory.
Karen#1 | August 19, 2011 at 7:51 pm |

Thanks for your kind words Marty.
I am honored to be your true friend.
I have seen private revealing moments of your true kindness and basic human decency.
You may not even recall this but over 2 decades ago when I was going through my “valley of the shadow of death” at INT base, you defied DM orders and was the ONLY person kind to me.
Heber was in Germany, I was not permitted to leave the base and you let Security know that I could see Alexander for 1/2 a day on Saturdays. He was 2 years old ~~ orphaned in Los Angeles and this kind gesture meant the world to me.
There are numerous other private moments where I saw your goodness and how you create long range survival for others.
Haydn, you and I went on Mission to New York in 1982. I witnessed you in action.
Your auditing of me was spectacular ~~ I carried my F/Ns for weeks after the sessions.
I will always love you and Mosey.
martyrathbun09 | August 19, 2011 at 8:30 pm |

First Spanish Angel.:)
Zephyr | August 19, 2011 at 8:37 pm |

O.O.
It has to be said, you are NOT indifferent!!!!!!! You work the way you chose to work for whatever reason you have and YOUR WORK I S APPRECIATED.
Lighten up and shoot your missiles at the appropriate target, the 3rd party.
It took me a year in the closet before coming out. When your circumstances change and/or when YOU decide to, you will make the change.
Greta
Joe Lynn | August 19, 2011 at 9:21 pm |

RJ, about the only disagreement I have with what you’ve written here is that at least *those parts* of the ‘confidential’ materials are already out of the box. There is no way to get them back in and, the attempt to put them back in is itself partly responsible for the Co$’ ‘War On The Internet’.

So, the best that could be hoped (from your viewpoint, I think) is that *Scientologists* on their *own determinism* would avoid exposure to out-gradient ‘Tech’. Any attempt to put it back in the ‘secret’ box will fail, and Wog society and justice does *not* exist to suppress ‘religious secrets’.

I agree with you completely that such ‘confidentiality’ does not extend to the records and evidence of criminality.
Publius | August 19, 2011 at 10:32 pm |

Larry Brennan is one of those who, despite their participation inside the organization, appear never to have experienced case gain from the actual application of the technology.

There are many others like him out there railing against and invalidating the entire subject rather than just the abuses which they either caused, contributed to, or experienced.
Mr. Fancy | August 19, 2011 at 11:21 pm |

Publius, it appears to me that your personal beliefs are causing you to speculate, rather than looking at the facts and assessing things objectively.

I’m going to give him, and others who were dedicated Scientologists (he was SO for crying out loud!) the benefit of the doubt that they got whatever “gains” it took for them to believe in the subject enough for them to dedicate their time, money and in Larry’s case, his life to Scientology.

But let’s assume for the sake of your argument that Larry did not, in fact, get “case gain”.
*That does not mean that Larry is a liar.
*That does not mean that his memory is somehow flawed
*That does not mean that he was not in a better position than most to make the observations he made
*That does not mean that the advantages afforded to religious organizations do not exist in a legal sense
*Nor does it make any less valid that (from the affidavit) “one of the most important reasons for the religious cloaking was so that the services of dianetics and scientology could be delivered without it being considered the practice of psychology and/or medicine. It was feared that unless there was a religious cloaking developed and used throughout organized scientology that its practices would be outlawed in many parts the world.”

Frankly, your argument breaks down to the point that if someone does not believe the same way you do, they are either lying or they are mistaken.

Is that what Scientology has taught you?
TroubleShooter | August 20, 2011 at 1:23 am |

ROFLMAO

Tom you are someone I can’t wait to meet. 😀

I am also sending off my letter Karen, thank you for the link.
TroubleShooter | August 20, 2011 at 1:27 am |

OK One Pissed Off Mexican,

I believe you. I have soooooooooo many friends down there who need to have the cage rattled loudly by some OLs and once they hear you – god have mercy on cob’s soul

or not
Komra Moriko | August 20, 2011 at 2:00 am |

Marty, you say “The back up during the siege has been dismal…” What do you need and want? I feel kinda dense, but don’t know what I could do that would be helpful to you during the siege. I am not part of the popcorn crew. I think maybe others have the same question.
RJ | August 20, 2011 at 3:09 am |

I wasn’t suggesting any legal remedy regarding he Advanced Course Materials that are currently out there.

It would be difficult now to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

My suggestion is that we ourselves as auditors avoid broadly disseminating them to the public and try to keep whatever security there is left in.

Until they are ready for those levels.

BTW I think Ron devised a brilliant handling for any possible leak of OT III by writing the screen play “Revolt in the Stars”.
plainoldthetan | August 20, 2011 at 5:21 am |

And I’m not so sure about hydrogen.
The Count | August 20, 2011 at 5:56 am |

Grasshopper, I agree with the first half of your comment. But I disagree with the second part. The future of the subject does not lie in independance. LRH put orgs and the SO there for a reason. The independance will never survive for a long period of time without HCO and Qual. LRH made it clear that OT’s work best with OT’s. He also said that the problem with OT’s in the past is that they individuate. So basically my viewpoint as an OT is that we out here have to take responsibility for putting ethics in on the Church eventually. Starting with removing POB.
The Count | August 20, 2011 at 6:03 am |

Komra, one thing you can do is click on the link that Karen provided above and then print out the Letter Of Support (about half way down the page) then sign it and mail it. Then disseminate it and this blog.
The Count | August 20, 2011 at 6:07 am |

I want to repost what Karen posted above. She has given some good direction to something that could possibly work to oust DM.
“This is really a good article and it answers a lot of questions.
Also, everyone can do something, whether anonymously or with full name.
http://blog.savescientology.com/”
I wanted to TR 3 Karen’s comm on this, simply because I have not seen a whole lot of people commenting on the site yet. Maybe many of you have printed out the letter and sent it, and didn’t bother to comment. If so, well done.
RJ | August 20, 2011 at 6:49 am |

Tory,

I was actually at the LA Sports Arena when Miscavige announced the “War Was Over” and had made “friends” with the IRS and those Nazis over at InterPol.

(When I heard that line I practically gagged!)

Anyway I went through the whole horrible two hours of the “Triumph of the Will” style event with Miscavige’s revisionist history wondering what we really gained if anything we gained.

So we’re “tax exempt”.

So you can write up to 50% off for any services.

So what!

If they cost over 150% more than what they did prior to the so called “Glorious Victory”.

I’d rather ate whatever tax benefit on my I-1040 at the earlier prices and saved 100%.

Or not bothered to file.

Which many Scientologists did prior to the so called “Victory”.

Now everybody must get taxed because the IRS also in their formerly secret closing agreement turned the “Church” into a tax reporting agency.

Don’t ya know that aside from being the “COB” Dave is also a revenue agent for the Government as Chairman of the CTCC?

I could go on about this but suffice it to say that *recovery* (since the Church of Scientology of California and the HASI had been tax exempt) of tax exempt status benefitted Miscavige and his “friends” more than Scientology itself.
RJ | August 20, 2011 at 7:51 am |

Mr Fancy,

There was always an inherent dispute between near the beginning to call Scientology a Science or a Religion.

The decision was made after J Burton Farber founded the Church of Scientology of California in 1954.

Before this Ron himself had played around with the idea by incorporating the Church of American Science ,the Church of Scientology and the Church of Spiritual Engineering in Camden New Jersey one year before this and was one of the big reasons he and Purcell had a big falling out over the subject.

The interplay was much more complex than merely trying to get a tax break.

At the time there was a differing of opinion on what actual direction the subject should and much of it had nothing to do with the IRS.

Yes actually it was Scientology Journal 26 G where he writes about Scientology, Science of Certainty however two years later he does a series of lectures on Scientology’s religious background and how it compares to other religions then 2 years after this he founds the Founding Church of Scientology in Washington DC.

So before this there was a dilemma of whether to call this new subject a science or a religion which is pretty much resolved by 1956.

Regarding Dianetics aka “the poor man’s psychotherapy” it was pretty much resolved from the beginning that it was a Science i.e. “Modern *Science* of Mental Health” and was originally considered a Psychotherapeutic technique much like Psychoanalysis.

In fact Dianetics was evolved from Psychoanalysis but like Wilhelm Reich and Carl Jung, Ron took these techniques farther than ol’ papa Freud had imagined so he had to call it something else.

In fact he tried starting the Freudian Foundation of America but was pretty much given the cold shoulder by traditional Psychoanalysts so he went his way and they went theirs.

However Dianetics since the release of “What to Audit” had already advancing into spiritual territory for some time.

In fact the original Hubbard Research Foundation sought to censure Ron for delving into past lives.

Something the Ol’man didn’t take too well so he aligned himself with Don Purcell who financed a new Foundation in Wichita Kansas which went along fine until Ron mentioned the “R” word in a famous lecture known as “Scientology, Milestone One”.

At which point all hell broke loose and you can say the rest is history.

History most Scientologists and critics are unaware of.

Anyway since Dianetics falls under the umbrella of Spiritual techniques directed towards the spirit. It would only be logical to consider it part of the Religion of Scientology.

However that is neither here nor there.

The fact is that Scientology is a religion and has every right to call itself such since it deals with the spirit of man and it doesn’t matter if the IRS does or does not consider it so.

Since they are not God.

They only think that they are.

And that has been the problem.

So in order to keep the IRS happy Ron wrote many policies on how Scientology should present itself as a religion in the eyes of the “tax cruds” so they wouldn’t descend upon the fledgling Church like locust like their friends in the FDA did in ’63 and steal all its assets.

Yeah sure.

He could have ignored them.

But as anyone who has ever had dealings with the IRS knows.

They are pretty hard to ignore.

Also if you read the excellent book “The American Police State” by David Wise. You’ll find that the IRS is used as a weapon of the power elite to suppress any dissent and the Church back then was one of the biggest dissenters

Because in the beginning the Church of Scientology was a big proponent of Social Justice and very much Anti War which put them on various black lists.

Unlike the Church today run by SMERSH operative Dave who is giving his “friends” what they want.
hadley | August 20, 2011 at 12:20 pm |

Very Very True and a great one aswell
Mr. Fancy | August 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm |

Publius,

If you are trying to contradict what I am saying, you would be well advised to duplicate it first. As it is, you are arguing against straw men using generalities and ignoring facts.

You say that: “My answer to all those who seem to want to devote their lives to tearing down LRH and Scientology is, show me one set of writings from anyone, past or present, that lays out the laws of life and existence that is more succinct and clearly stated than the Axioms and the Factors.”

Tobe fair: I just read the Axioms. There is nothing in there that can, or has, been proven. It is speculation, not “laws”, and there is a great deal of assumptions made. It also makes giant leaps of logic, adds emotion to justify physical actions, and explains more than one thing by, “because X decided it should be so”. (Some “science” you got there!)

It has as much actual evidence backing it up as Genesis does, to be frank. (Or, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for that matter.) And thus, it more firmly establishes Scientology as a “religion”, IMO.

I think there is better evidence for proof of Scientology’s worthiness than the Axioms and Factors that you could come up with. But, I’m talking to a True Believer here, aren’t I?
hadley | August 20, 2011 at 1:51 pm |

Agree /Clarify abbrevation POB?
Mr. Fancy | August 20, 2011 at 3:46 pm |

RJ,

I think we can both agree that the “religion” designation was a decision that came out of a good deal of debate and had many reasons behind it. I agree, a lot of church critics are not aware of the early history (though I have done a great deal of reading on the subject from multiple authors). I’d also add that a lot of Scientologists are also not aware of the early history, either.

I think it is worth remembering that not all early proponents of the movement were in complete agreement; and that the great majority of them fell out along the way for various reasons.

I’ll repeat it here: I think Scientology is, particularly at this point, very much a religion.

But a “science”? Let’s look at what makes up “science”:

A science is “falsifiable”. That is, all hypotheses are assumed to be true unless and until new evidence is presented that shows it to be false. Is Scientology “falsifiable”? No. It is assumed that if Scientology doesn’t work, that it was merely “not applied standardly”. The notion that Scientology itself might be incomplete or false is never applied.

A science consists of “laws that are subject to change, revision or rejection in the face of new evidence”. Is Scientology subject to change, revision or rejection? No. KSW and all that. (Which is too bad, as it freezes the tech in its current state and prevents any further advancements).

I could go on about how science is a web of knowledge that consists of contributions of countless individuals, duplicability, or other aspects, but I think the above is sufficient to plant the subject of Scientology far out of the realm of science and back, squarely, the realm of religion.
martyrathbun09 | August 20, 2011 at 4:11 pm |

Try a couple dozen hours of OTTR0 and TR0, as windhorse describes, then re-read. I bet you’d amend this pronunciamento of yours considerably.
Formost | August 20, 2011 at 5:31 pm |

As though only those with names have the highest status on this blog or in the “indie community” and the rest are simply less than..

Wrong medium what you are looking for.

Get involved with a local “On-Source” Scientology Group that delivers auditing and training.

If the extent of your participation is “acceptance” by blogging only, you’re wasting your time.

It leads absolutely nowhere.

Sorry, I don’t need a be a “card-carrying” Indie approved by your committee of whoever, to know what side I’m on, and I don’t need to justify it to you, either.

Then just don’t.

You’ll find plenty that is ‘right’ with it, and plenty that is wrong.

Hold your own council, make your own decisions.

It’s just promotion. CO$ does the same thing.
Mr. Fancy | August 20, 2011 at 6:17 pm |

I’ve done the OTTRo and TRo for enough hours in my life, thanks. I don’t think that sensory deprivation produces a mindset that is well suited for critical analysis.
martyrathbun09 | August 20, 2011 at 6:48 pm |

MF, you probably ought to go back to the laboratory then and get back to solving all humankind’s woes through test tubes. I am sorry we are serving as such a distraction to your noble work with the physical elements.
RJ | August 20, 2011 at 8:12 pm |

We can pretty much agree that the subject under the current regime is anything but a science.

Under of the rubric of the “Golden Age of Tech” they have turned it into nothing but a ritual similar to chanting and burning incense.

Before that it was based on demonstrable and observable phenomena from techniques evolved through the scientific method.

Once these were developed to a point of workability on all cases why go any farther than this?
Mr. Fancy | August 20, 2011 at 8:17 pm |

You know, after going back and thinking about it for a while, my previous answer was flippant and I regret it.

I have no reason to think that meditation does give one insight. In that vein, I’d say that “OTTRo” is fine to do. I would not take it as a source of infallible “truth”, so any insights would have to be tempered with critical thought.

I do not think that TR0 is anything more than a waste of time, though.

As to the “Axioms”, I still stand by my previous answer.

Yes, I prefer laboratories for my “science”, Marty. Unfortunately, they’re neither perfectly suited nor universally applicable to answering the questions of reality. (Scientology does have a lot of hypotheses that could be tested in a laboratory setting, though, and why you all haven’t boggles my mind…)

However, If you choose to “dive in”, as I certainly have, to certain questions of reality that are not readily subject to empirical data, then you have to do so with a GIANT grain of salt. To think that anyone has everything figured out is ridiculous, IMO. We haven’t even begun to figure out all that we don’t know, or even which questions we should be asking.
The Count | August 21, 2011 at 3:15 am |

Hadley, POB means Pope On A Box. Coined by Mike Rinder.
RJ | August 21, 2011 at 6:30 am |

Karen,

Thanks for posting this link.

It is definitely something positive that anyone can do to handle the scene.
Mr. Fancy | August 21, 2011 at 5:20 pm |

“Before that it was based on demonstrable and observable phenomena from techniques evolved through the scientific method.”

If LRH used the scientific method, what was his null hypothesis? What were his controls? How large of a sample size did he take? Did he put in controls to ensure that his sample was representative of all people? Where were the studies that described his methodology and results so others could duplicate his results?

Not trying to be rude, but I’ve got eight years of college and two degrees in the biological sciences (compare that to LRH’s college transcript.) And I’m saying that LRH didn’t know what the scienific method was, much less use it.

“Once these were developed to a point of workability on all cases why go any farther than this?”

While I disagree with your assertion that the “tech” is “workable in all cases”, I’d ask that even if it was, why could it not be improved upon, understood better, or have new techniques developed from it to address other problems?
Komra Moriko | August 21, 2011 at 5:46 pm |

done and mailed
RJ | August 22, 2011 at 12:38 am |

Mr Fancy,

The following is pretty much the Scientific Method in layman’s terms:

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml

You can find that Ron carried out each of these steps on any process or action that was broadly released.

The fact that an auditor has to be trained in TRs and Metering pretty much precludes anyone who isn’t auditor trained from replicating the results.

Just like you as a biologist would have difficulty replicating a physics experiment unless they were trained in the discipline of physics.

Yet there seems to be a double standard in regard to Scientology.

“While I disagree with your assertion that the “tech” is “workable in all cases”, I’d ask that even if it was, why could it not be improved upon, understood better, or have new techniques developed from it to address other problems?”

You can disagree with my “assertion” all you want.

The only way that you will achieve your own certainty of results is by *honestly* applying the techniques yourself and deciding for yourself.

This is covered in the DAB ‘Education and the Auditor’

I am not here to convince you either way.

While on the other hand what calls itself “science” in many cases doesn’t allow you to do this.

I mean in biology you are supposed to accept Darwin’s Theory of Evolution without question as if it was holy writ.

Anyone who disagrees is labeled a “creationist”.

On the other hand prior to Scopes anyone who promoted Darwin’s theory was run out of many schools on a rail.

Science in many cases only *pretends* to be about Science when in many cases it is politically motivated.

A good example is the theory about second hand smoke.

Research was conducted by WHO which proved conclusively that second hand smoke had no effect on mortality.

Not a single death could be attributed to second hand smoke as a direct causal factor.

Yet the research was shelved because it didn’t fit their agenda of extorting the tobacco companies for more taxes.

What about all these drugs put out on the market that the FDA claimed were so “safe and effective” like Thalidomide and Miltdown after many tests and double blind studies only to be pulled off the market because they cause birth defects or are extremely habit forming like “mother’s little helper” like Oxycortin is proving to be right now.

In many cases those who claim to be Scientists are arrogant beyond belief.

They have a pet theory and then good about “proving” it.

Like whites are superior to any other race as in Eugenics.

The only thing that brought this disgraceful Science the disgrace it deserved was Nazi Germany’s defeat.

You really try to present science as a paragon of virtue when in reality any virtue it had was used to achieve political ends.

So much so that it in many cases has become the whore of the establishment.

This was probably one reason why Ron only trusted his own research in the subject fearing that others might pervert his own work.

The other is covered in Keeping Scientology Working.

He did give others a chance to “build a better bridge”.

Miscavige was not the only one responsible for the debacle known as the “Golden Age of Tech” which is a perfect example of what happens when others try to “improve” upon Ron’s work.

Me I’ll stick with what works and Scientology has always worked for me when I’ve applied it correctly.
hadley | August 27, 2011 at 10:58 pm |

RJ/ I read that COB is chairmen of the board / plus acting as agent for the renevue depart for the Goverment ( You write he is chairmen for CTCC please clarify this what does CTCC Mean also? it means he is a chairmen for what / and and agent exactly for who ?
RJ | August 29, 2011 at 1:32 am |

The formerly secret “Secret Closing Agreement” covers this.

CTCC means Church Tax Compliance Committee a committee formed by this agreement to insure all Scientology “entities” (the agreement doesn’t specify whether “entity” means organization or individual) are in compliance with the Tax Codes of which Miscavige is a lifetime appointed member of and Chairman to.

Their job is to basically enforce the Tax code by insuring compliance thus they are technically acting as Agents by acting on the IRS’ behalf which is the basic the definition of “agent”.

Thus making Dave in effect a revenue agent.

Really you and anyone else should read this agreement:

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.com/documents/1993-10-01closingagrmt.html
hadley | August 29, 2011 at 12:39 pm |

RJ Thanks for the clarification and also the link and agreement that you provided. Rather of intresting reading to say the least.

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