Anat on the tundra
I’ve been following Marty’s site for over a year now. Thank you dear Marty for having a blog where we can get the latest and be allowed to communicate and share our views freely! I admire and respect so many of you I met on this site!!! Thanks to you, I have so much more understanding and realizations. Thanks to you I feel I am not alone!
This is my story:
In 1990 my sister came to visit me from Israel. Within those 2 weeks, my sister, my 7 year old son, and I joined the Sea Org. We were all very new to Scn, especially my sister who knew nothing of it till her visit. My sister shot up to CMO within weeks, and weeks later she left to Israel and didn’t come back as was expected. I left the SO a few months after.
About 2 years later she got declared a suppressive person for blowing. I was not allowed to talk to her.
Four years ago when I moved to CW to go up the Bridge, I was told by Ethics I had to disconnect from my whole family because through them I am somehow connected to my sister and that by itself is considered a suppressive act. I was not allowed to go back to my training till I informed my family that I am disconnecting from them. At first I tried fighting it but later I gave in. I moved up the Bridge, being assured that on OT 7, I would be able to handle anything in life. I was excited and couldn’t wait to get on 7! All the while, my family would always come up as one unresolved BIG upset. Last year, when I realized I was about to complete the level, I had to take an honest look and decided there was no way I was going to attest to a level where I have not reached the product; being cause over life. I’ve committed on my family and myself such a big overt. Here is an incomplete cycle of action that my attention would not come off of! There was only one thing to do and that was to handle; complete the cycle of action so I could truly attest to the level. The toughest thing was having a comm cycle with my husband and my son. Despite knowing the risks, I was still going to stick to my decision. My husband and my son, to my greatest relief, were so very supportive. I’m the luckiest girl to have such an amazing family!!!!!!
Next it was time to get in touch with the rest of my family. Wow! All I can say is that my family not only was so thrilled to hear from me, it was the warmest welcoming, which brings tears to my eyes even now.
This is what my beef is:
- Disconnection. What’s up with that? Are we not going for full self-determinism? If I am told who I can talk to, what to do, think etc. isn’t this called “other determinism” or even “robotism”?
- The cost of doing Bridge. If the church truly believes that they have the only tech that would handle/improve conditions, then shouldn’t it be made available and affordable to everyone, instead of creating a small country club? Really, if you had the only medicine that could cure people who are dying around you, would you not give it because you don’t have the ideal facility or enough nurses and doctors and would you, to be able to afford the bridge, have to sell your mother…?
- Rules and the suppressive use of policies that create stops rather than expansion, such as becoming a class Auditor before being able to deliver a paid Assist. The different licensing and their costs, etc. I met a guy once who told me he would not deliver seminars because he would have to pay much more to Wise than just consult one on one. It seems to me like it’s creating a Must Have/Can’t Have.
- How come some of the highest execs in the Church are now known as the biggest SPs? Why are we attacking within? Attacking each other weakens us as a group! How come COB is standing mostly solo in events? Where are the rest of the Execs?
- Why are there so many illnesses among Scientologists, especially on the upper levels? Some of us volunteers must see this as an outpoint. How come no one is asking?
- Since when did asking and querying became an enemy line? Are we supposed to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil and everything will be just fine. Isn’t it delving into superstition?
When did we start “buying” ourselves out of Ethics? I don’t want my ethics officer, my supe, or the receptionist to reg me!
It used to be fun and exciting times for me to go to the org. It has not been so for a long time.
Therefore we decided to no longer be a part of what is known today as the church of Scientology.
Because we asked the church for re-payment of advance payments and for money taken out from our account at Flag for books packages we did not authorize or receive, my husband’s daughter (she is in the Sea Org) has disconnected from us. I understand her. I was at the same place not too long ago. She is smart! When she is ready, we’ll be here with open arms!!!!
With lots of Love,
Anat Krier
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Thanks for speaking out, Krier! By doing so you will help and inspire others to do the same.
Shalom Anat, and congratulations on your decision!!! Freedom, here we come!
F***kin COS. I Just wonder what they’d say if someone was Catholic and then decided to be a Scientologist. And then the Catholic church made that person disconnect form the rest of their Catholic family. You know they’d condemn it. F***kin hypocrites. In this country we’re even allowed to speak to those in jail for murder. Can’t let them out, but we can communicate to them. “Oh, you don’t want to be a Scientologists anymore?
Then you can’t speak to any of us for eternity”!
I think it’s the “service policy” where Ron says, paraphrasing: “If the rules get in the way of delivering service, screw the rules”. If he knew what was going on in his church today, I think his wrath would know no bounds.
Welcome to the free, Anat!
Love, Rich
Welcome & thanks for your statement!
It would be nice if you could talk some sense into Ronit, Ophra, Daphna and the rest of the SoCal Israelis. If that bunch would bail on Miscavige, it would be pretty much all over but the shouting…as they say.
Anat — Welcome to the real world of Scientology! Happy to have you here!
Thank you Anat.
I agree, “disconnection” as a practice is as crazy as it can be. My ex-wife Carol disconnected from her Sister Gloria who did some suppressive things. But OSA Int made her disconnect from her mother too because mom still loved both her childred and didn’t think anything was wrong with one of her daughters loving Scn and the other decrying it. To mom it is a free world. It broken her moms heart so much (Mom was not a Scientologist) not to be able to speak to Carol or her grand childred or her great grandchildren since 1993.
But her mom died two years ago and the declared sister was the executor of the estate and even though Carol disconnected from mom, mom still put her in the will and sent money her way. Did Carol take the money? You bet she did and OSA allowed her to. Of course some went to Basics.
But that’s how two-faced the Church, and their members are. When it comes to money, well, its all about money.
ML Tom
Anat….
Great job in a) waking up and seeing what you’ve described above
and b) Even better, posting it here!!! I cannot tell you how much this means
to me, and I know ****TONS**** of other people. If I could give you a
gigantic hug (and ALL who have left that insidious organization and spoken out about it)…I would!!! Bless you ALL…and as you say, you still love those still “in”: ME TOO! May they hear your message and others, and sooner, rather than later, take back their *own* lives.
My best 🙂
Tory Christman
Aka: Magoo! Burbank, CA
I love your “country club” reference. That was spot on.
In fact, I think you may have somewhat coined a new phrase:
Country Club Scientology.
After all, Gomez has the golf cart, and to do anything at Flag will run you many times the cost of an average country club fee, so I think that is very appropriate.
Thanks again for sharing your story.
Wow, Anat! Your lightheartedness shines through in your writing. Since my son disconnected from me a couple of months ago, you have given me hope! Welcome, welcome, welcome!
Shalom! 🙂
Anat,
I’m so happy to read your announcement. It is spot on. I agree with all the beefs you listed here. It’s a crying shame because, like you said, it isn’t possible to actually make it to OT under these circumstances. It makes me angry because, there is no reason for things to be this way. I believe this is why we see some OTs acting so looney.
Thanks for speaking up! It makes a difference! Congratulations on being out and on getting your family back, too!
Tom, you got it.
When it comes to money, well, its ALL about money.
It truly has been turned into a vulture culture.
Shalom Anat!! Your story brought tears to my eyes. This enforced disconnection is evil. I can’t imagine that it will go on much longer. I’m so happy that your family was so welcoming. mazel tov!
L’ chaim – to life!
I was just reading in the mag Scientology News that the Pasadena Org has 134 staff and over 40 Tech staff and 50 staff in the Public Division. And their delivery of services is 6x greater than anything they have ever done.
Can anyone in the know tell me really how many staff they have?
This sounds like just more lies. Everytime I go by the Pasadena Org there are 100x more people in the PUB next door than in the Org.
Yes, Anat, “what’s up with that?” You are spot on. For me, the COS (miscavige and his effects) resulted in me disconnecting from my birth family first because that was the only way I would get my OT levels, then disconnection from my first marriage, non-scn famil,y where I was the father of two children. Then finally, the disconnection of my Scn family with one child due to out tech in the cos and a failure of the justice system.
So now I wake up to this madness and I decide to disconnect from RCS and POB as the correct application of PTS tech and the right item. When I state the completion of my doubt formula publically that I am independent of the Cult of Miscavige, all my former Scn buddies have to disconnect from me.
Hmmm… some enlightenment this has turned out to be. A million bucks spent to destroy all that is dear to me, almost all my loved ones gone. What a product!
The only good thing about it is my phone is almost silent (now that I am not getting 12 calls per day from regs from every division on the org board of 7-9 different orgs. Funny, just how sad it all is when your only comm lines are regs. I cannot believe that Kool-aide ever tasted good. Thanks for sharing your story. The COS is supposed to save the world? What a crock! It is a trap of magnitude.
Congratulations, Anat! Welcome to the true world of Scientology.
Anat,
Congratulations on your decision. You will enjoy many more wins as the layers of suppression continue to roll off. Welcome to the real world of freedom.
Thank you for making your announcement public. It is very well stated. I personally feel there is great value in announcing here. It may be the most crucial blow we can strike against the mismanagement of LRH’s church. And it validates those very brave souls who continue to take the heat so that all of us can continue to practice our religion as we see is in keeping with truth.
Much love, Yvonne
ps. Tell Ronit I say “hello”.
pps. Great photo of you. Very life-affirming.
Welcome to the Indies, Anat!
Anat, welcome to freedom! Thank you for speaking out!
Way to go Anat!!!
I recall talking with you awhile back. I’m glad things have worked out so well for you. As I recall you live in the Pacific Northwest!! It would be great for you to come up to one of our get togethers and vice versa.
The points you make are very easy to understand and I agree with them whole heartedly.
Good to see you here!! Welcome!!
Hi Anat,
Welcome out! 🙂
You made good points so I’ll take them up one by one:
Disconnection was a policy intended by LRH to be used an an extreme last resort. It was intended to deal with suppressives not with family. Some very small percentage of the population are crazily destructive but most who appear to be so are upset about something they don’t understand.
The cost of doing the bridge as an Independent is more reasonable. Its not cheap but it doesn’t involve self destuctive financing.
The cult does not have a monoploy on applying things that you read in a book. You are free to apply Scientology and you don’t need to be a classed auditor to do an assist.
DM took over Scientology. He is an SP. In his case I recommend disconnection. Many of the people in Scientology have spent their time over the last whatever number of lifetimes learning to help and improve life. When an insidious rat like DM comes along then we had easily get wiped out as we have little experience with such slime and their tactics carefully honed for aeons.
There are so many illnesses amongst Scientologists because they are PTS. It happened rarely when LRH was around.
In the Independent Field you are free to query and ask all you wish 🙂
I’m in Austria which is not too far away if you need help.
Welcone Anat!! Thank you for sharing your story with us and for demonstrating your personal integrity! 🙂
Anat, what a great announcement. I greatly admire your personal integrity for deciding for yourself that you could not attest to 7 when you knew you had not reached the product.
Yvonne Schick already said this, but your willingness to publicly announce your decision here is so valuable to all of us and will deliver an effective blow to the enemy.
And your “beefs” are very insightful: “Are we supposed to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil and everything will be just fine. Isn’t it delving into superstition?” — That is a great question.
Welcome to the indies, Anat.
Anat, a thousand welcomes.
In Hebrew shalom originally meant peace. I am sure you have found peace now. Others have mentioned Ronit, Daphna and Opra, I believe they are not at peace. While I know them all, Ronit and her family are particularly special to me. Could we speak by email? I would like to ask you about some people. Mine is free.tobe07at yahoo.com and I would love to hear from you.
Shalom.
Hi Songbird, When my son was 4 or 5, he said, “I don’t love you.” The second time he did it, I said, “I don’t tell you that I don’t love you, and it hurts my feeling when you do that, so please don’t do it any more.” He didn’t do it again for thirty years until the day he disconnected. But I am still his mother and I know he will someday see the truth. They are always our children no matter how much trouble they get themselves into…
Hello Anat, I hope to meet you sometime at one of the parties Tony speaks of here in the Pacific Northwest (of the U.S.A. for all you around the world…)
Ralph, what a cognition you give people. But of course! WHY ELSE would anyone disconnect from someone if they were in the church unless if it is because it is an SP that is really, really, really being anti-social! The LRH tech is to disconnect! Of course it works! Why stay connected to someone taking swings at you with a “baseball bat” after dinner 5 times a week? To do so WOULD BE PTS now wouldn’t it! 🙂 Obviously! 🙂 But Ralph, the Church of Scientology would disconnect from the phone company if they thought it meant they could get free minutes! 🙂
Ralph, just like with the Reed Slatkin thing. The church’s Ponzi scheme to “take control of the internet and disseminate the tech and weed out the SP”! WHAT? Who the heck on Earth ever heard of a plan like that! That’s why it failed. 🙂
Hello old friend 😀
You finally made it!
I always knew my old door to door recovery buddies were the BEST and now you have just confirmed it once again.
So very very happy to see you here.
We will get them all back Anat. We will get our loved ones back. We’ll just keep fighting until they realize how very much we love them.
Welcome Anat…so glad you decided to go public…you will help many others cross the bridge to INDEPENDENCE and valid Scientology tech..
Anat,
You comment about determinism brought to mind a conversation I had last night with a dear friend. We were discussing the scale of determinism, how other-determinism has degrees of condition, how self-determinism has degrees of condition, how pan-determinism also has degrees of application.
We explored just what pan-determinism really meant. Is pan-determinism simply and extension of self-determinism? That doesn’t make complete sense when viewed in the light of Ron’s tapes on groups. A group is not merely an extension of a first dynamic. He was always concerned about Scientology merely being an extension of himself rather than becoming a true group where the members exercised KRC for the whole thing.
We were examining the videos of the Squirrel Busters, watching their behavior, studying their determinism. These individuals were obviously behaving like other-determined souls. Why? Because their actions and reactions were so irrational. They were not examining their environment and the individuals in that environment and responding appropriately.
Supposed “OTs” acting so low on the scale of determinism? Sad. They were puppets of DM, acting apparently on his determinism.
So, what was pan-determinism?
If it is a good thing, was DM being pan-determined? Was he being cause over opposing sides of the conflict, cause over dynamics outside the first? We looked at the definition of pan-determinism in the Scientology dictionary and just felt it merely hinted at a panorama of possibilities. Just as start-change-stop might define control, but merely hints at so much more.
First, we decided that because determinism is a scale and that pan-determinism really does exist above self-determinism, then something is wrong with the picture of DM being pan-determined. Which begs the question, if an SP is out of valence, can he be self-determined?
It would seem that only a thetan himself can be self-determined. A piece of bank cannot qualify as self-deterrmined or other-determined. Thus, DM’s dramatizing bank would qualify as neither self nor pan-determined. The “determinism” would be a via, a piece of bank, an automaticity acting reactively.
Somewhere behind those, a thetan made the postulates and considerations for these things, but a mechanism has become substitute for that thetan.
Next, just what practical relevance does pan-determinism have? Who wants to be controlled by another? Who wants to be their puppet, subject to their considerations, postulates and opinions without consent? Isn’t that what got us in this mess?
So back to where pan-deterrminism applies as a high-toned activity related to improved survival.
We both love to dance and know that good control of one’s partner is necessary. The person “leading” is not the only one in control. In group dances, all the dancers have to lend support, coordination and control. You have to catch and support partners and other members of the group.
And this applies to any organization or group. The members lend their energies to supporting the actions of one another so that a broader control can be exerted.
The best condition of pan-determinism is when all members are exercising mutual pan-determinism, when all members are contributing and being contributed to, helping and being helped. The flows are given and exchanged. Products and sub-products are accomplished by many points of KRC.
Mutual benefit.
Where independence becomes interdependence (a concept voiced by Stephen Covey).
The second dynamic prospers when spouses operate not independently but interdependently. If both individuals only did exactly what they chose without regard for the other, the marriage would be less satisfying. Much of life’s satisfaction comes from sharing.
And sharing is a scale itself with degrees of success, much of that success resting on the ability to assume the other’s viewpoint to determine needs and wants. So, sharing, at its best becomes a pan-determined action.
So, what is DM sharing? What is he contributing? What are the Squirrel Busters sharing and contributing?
A few months back, Jeff Hawkins hosted a raging debate over the concept of “the greatest good…” When we revisited that concept, we suddenly saw our misunderstood. The greatest good is what benefits all members. It isn’t what will benefit a few mathematically to the detriment of others, so that the net result is a “positive” which is code for benefitting on person or group over others.
The greatest good is that which serves all so they experience better conditions in life.
Harming others, though the concept is broached in the Code of Honor, would only enter into the equation of “greatest good” when participants are being low-toned and counter-survival. Raising a tone level to fear would be an improvement over apathy, but would still result in a negative condition. You could say “the greatest good” was accomplished, but that would be nonsense.
Improving a condition doesn’t equal greatest good. Greatest good comes when survival potential is met to the greatest extent. For all. The person in apathy is brought to enthusiasm up through action and on to serenity of beingness.
Greatest.
Good.
The greatest good is an ideal for which we strive rather than a justification for what you can get away with. The greatest good is benefit to all rather than harming some.
So, these other-determined individuals are out in Marty’s street, justifying their attempts to harm him, pretending to be pan-determined, and looking absolutely ridiculous. And it’s sad, revolting, infuriating, etc. depending on our mood.
This entire discussion we had covered a lot more, but I’ve taken up more than my allotment of space and time here. Just a few things to think about. Just a few concepts to explore.
Let me lend my postulates to your husband’s daughter discovering the truth and reuniting with you guys. To find her determinism and lend it to a better world is an admirable thing.
A thing worthy of the greatest good.
A good accomplished through mutual pan-determinism.
Michael
Anat,
Congratulations and welcome to the real world of personal freedom as a being. Freedom to be, do and have the life you want to create. I believe you will find your world expand with the insight you now have and the responsibility you have taken. I commend you and your family. Enjoy!
Anat…my friend!!!!! Much love to you.
I don’t understand various points in your posts Lawrence. For example: 1. Why the term baseball bat has apostrophes around it. 2. Or why there is no date or specifics for the LRH policy you state/mis-state. 3. Or why you think the church shouldn’t disconnect from the phone company if they can get a better deal elsewhere. 4. Or even the relevance or truth of your Reed Slatkin/church find the SP analogy.
Maybe it’s just me, but I feel I grasp most of the other posters well enough. So if you aren’t a troll, then please consider what your reader can easily understand.
Welcome Anat.
Thanks for having the courage to voice your observations of what is true for you.
Just think, you have an entire eternity of freedom ahead. Those you love will join you, of that I am certain.
Les Warren
Hi Anat,
Well done on your decision..
Your “beef” really communicates.. simple but true.
Happy to have you on board…
Anat: Congratulations on getting out and reconnecting with your family. It is a healing thing to have back the people you love. I am glad for you and happy that you are finally happy!
In other news, the Maulfair’s have moved their clinic after selling the building are now in Orefield, PA. The burg of Topton seems much happier that they are no longer there since the flap with Jeremy. I hear, on good authority, that they sold the building through a WISE bank relatively quickly, I saw the sign out for about three weeks. The people who bought the building are tearing the inside apart and redo things to their likeness. I have no word if it is a WISE related company. The sign for their practice was finally taken down yesterday.
Shalom Anat.
Hello Anat,
Well done on your courage and confront.
Thank you Bryan!
Shalom Azul. Yes, let’s bring it on:-)!
Love,
Anat
Hi Anat,
Great to have you out and in the real three-dimensional world! I agree with all other posts and have nothing to add except one thing: it could be a great idea to get a thorough review of your past auditing now. There are probably tons of gains to be had from such an action now when the suppression is off. All the best!
Dear OTF, that’s why we are here putting the cards on the table and getting others to look! Let’s keep at it and we’ll all win!!
Love,
Anat
Thank you poet13c!
Love,
Anat
Thanks David. You are right but you might be surprise to know that some of the ones you mentioned above are already aware…
Love,
Anat
Thank you Mike. You have my respect and admiration!
Love,
Anat
You’re right, Sam. And they will realize.
Thank you Tom!
Thank you for sharing your story!
Love,
Anat
Great to meet you, Anat!
Wow Tory! Thank you for your kind words!
Love,
Anat
Hello Centurion,
Thank you! You are right, it is suitable:-)!
Love,
Anat
How kind Songbird!
Thanks and Love,
Anat
Shalom to you Lowrence!
Love,
Anat
Dear Laura Ann,
Thank you! I agree, There is no “other- determinism OT”
Love,
Anat
Thank you for your kind words OOTWS.
Love,
Anat
Warm welcome Anat.
You will make the friends, new comrades, have new adventures and say what you please whenever you please ! Happy times ahead.
Your bullet points could save the “Church” a ton of money on using survey tech. Right on ! 🙂
Thank you Mirari.
I am sorry to hear about your family but remember, I was there too drinking the same drink and here I am so there is hope:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thank you so very much Luis!
You totally inspired me with your amazing letter!!!
Love,
Anat
+1!!!
Dear Friend,
You are a very theta lady Yvonne!!! You have warmly welcomed and offered me support withouthrough our mutual friend without even knowing me!
I thank and love you for that!
I was in Nome Alaska visiting. I have so much affinity for that place:-)!
Anat
Thank you sinar.
Love,
Anat
Thanks Bert!
Love,
Anat
Hello Tony,
Yes, I am in Oregon and would love coming up! When are we getting together?:-)
Love,
Anat
Thanks Ralph for the data and the offer:-)!
Love,
Anat
Dear Christie,
Thank you!
I am so impressed with you!!! The first time I saw you speak was ( I think on CNN) and you came across so proud and spoke with so much integrity!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Cindy for such warm and wonderful words:-)!
Love,
Anat
Dear Eileen,
Thank you and yes, I am finding my Shalom more and more each day!
Love,
Anat
Hello Lynne.
Sure! I love parties:-)!
Love,
Anat
Wow sam! I am honored!
Just so you know, you are the ballsiest girl I know:-)
You’re right! We’ll keep maintaining our position!
Love,
Anat
Thanks Jack. Agree!
Love,
Anat
Dear Michael,
It could also be called a “Robot”.
From the tech dictionary, def #2. “a robot is a machine that somebody else runs.”
Love,
Anat
Thank you Sapere Aude!
Love,
Anat
Hello Honey,
Good to see you here! Good to be here:-)!
Love U
Anat
Thank you LDW and I agree! They will be back:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thanks Mark!
Love,
Anat
Welcome Anat to here where Scientology is light and is moving up a little higher.
Your observations are very correct and spot on.
To hell with THAT ‘country club’!
Greta
It is a practice that simply does not work in the real world. It’s destructive and just plain evil. People I explain it to think of things like the Soviet Union as something to compare and I can’t argue. The “Church” labeling a son, husband, friend etc and demanding one have no further communication or contact with them- it is apparently very much like how they handled people in the Soviet Union who spoke out against the system.
Church Members are controlled by fear of losing something they were promised but havent received from the Church- spiritual freedom and immortality.
Soviets were controlled by fear of losing their freedom or lives.
Somehow I doubt LRH would approve.
Wow Anat!
This came sooner than I thought! Excellent!
Freedom is priceless!
Freedom of Choice is Powerful! Powerful for the soul!
— Jackson
Wonderful position, Anat! Thank you!
Anat, Well done on having everything you want, and not letting anyone run a can’t have on you.
P.S. I have no idea why people are A=Aing you will Israeli people in Los Angeles.
T.O.
Anat, it is so great that you got back in comm with your family.
You were a really courageous person. Very well done!
Paolo
This reminds me of different times inside Scientology. As I went on staff in mid 70ies my father and brother in law both claiming to go to police if I do not come back home. I told it in the org and guess what? I have not been told to disconnect. I have not been told to no longer communicate with my family. I have been told to handle the situation. What a difference to nowadays.
And by the way, I could handle the situation. A good trained Scientologist should be able to communicate with everyone. Should be able to read or see everything without being restimulated. Or in case there would be some restimulation should be able to handle it quickly. „Oh no, do not tell me that, as this hurts my case and I have to have an extra intensive to clean that up“ is the most stupid thing to follow.
Shalom Anat, and welcome to the free fresh air. I wish your standing up and telling your story will help get other Israelis out of the hypnotic state they are in.
Wonderful News Anat ( on your public stand)
I hope it won’t be too long a wait to be reconnected to your disconnected family.
I am sure one day they will very proud of having a true pioneer Real Scientologists in their midst.
With prayers and love to you and them.
I wouldn’t disconnect from someone who was taking swings at me with a baseball bat. I’d get a bigger bat and knock his head off (good solid comm line). Were it not for the fact that LRH actually cancelled disconnection as a condition I would say that I disagree with him on this one. Disconnection works as a short term temporary solution if you need to withdraw and gather your wits but long term it just a non-confront or a blow. Pick up any PTS/SP pack. The purpose of the course is to teach a person to ‘confront and shatter suppression’ not how to run away from it.
Incidentally if ‘disconnection’ is something that is advocated in the church as a solution to handling suppression then why would DM send Scientologists to harass Marty? Why doesn’t he simply ‘disconnect’ from the big bad SPs like he’s telling everyone else to do?
This has nothing to do with LRH and nothing to do with any LRH policy. This is the weapon used by an SP to keep everyone in line.
Hi Anat,
Wonderful to see another has found the truth.
You know… having done the route to OT7 via the Cof$ myself with the accompaning life upsets, financial ruin and family troubles I looked at the whole affair and did my own evaluation on that circumstance. Twice I eval’d it and came up with the same answer both times. It still rattles me today that such a thing took so long to come to realise.
It’s the transition to KRC.
ARC is somewhat exclusively (used) accepted from the lower Bridge and apparently gets to be a bit of a stuck flow. So much other determinism is coercied and instilled on that route within the Church that one has a tendency to accept it without question. Without self determined KRC to balance the flow the journey only goes so far until that lack of KRC keys in. This usually manifests itself in the form of disrupted and damaged Dynamics.
The awareness that the symbol of the double triangle & S of Scientology actually means something and that it comes at a price which must be known and applied as Freedom encompases the greatest good and involves all 8 Dynamics.
Well done…
Is that you in that gravatar? Holy Shitski, that’s got to be an over-the-top sensation!
Michael, thanks very much for that post. It has helped me resolve a stuck issue I’ve had for several months.
And Anat, congratulations on your choices and obvious relief on freeing yourself from the cult that the CoS has become. It’s lovely to meet you. And Yvonne’s right … that is a great picture.
JM
Anat,
Great photo!
The way you write reflects and shows that same person who in a matter of days makes a life changing decision. You’re a jump-in, good natured and very forthright individual.
Under the circumstances, you never belonged there in the first place.
So stretch your wings and enjoy yourself!
L’hitraot,
Dean
POB,
Another Prime Asset down the crapper. It’s gotta be slim pickins over there to get anyone to execute anything. Oh, that’s right…Your Holiness (excuse me, Catholics) does everything himself due to them damned SPs who are thicker than flies around him.
Wrong target…hmmmm…you can’t even count the cards in your hand!
Or have the arrogance to chose not to.
…choose not to.
Cant comm freely here. just watch. this wont be posted.
Perhaps there is an MU somewhere?
Hello Anat!
Thank you for your story. Hopefully, it will encourage anyone else on “the level” (vomit) that is getting anywhere near actually looking for themselves to really see what they see and not what someone else tells them to see. After all, Isn’t that the whole thing….our strength? Our integrity?
Truly, Scientology, as it is done is the way OUT! The “church” really does an excellent job of directing people to actual freedom! I hope they keep it up so we will see many more posts such as yours! It is a good lesson. But why did it take us so long to learn it?!! Welcome to your family and to your freedom!
Wow.
Love.
The most important thing of all.
Love without limit.
Love without conditions.
Church member don’t get it and are taught not to show any affinity.
Love is certainly considered a “low tone” emotional dramatization in the Miscavige “Church”.
The Draft never understood this is the basic fuel of life.
Anat, thank you for telling your story on this blog! I know the time is coming when we can all make our families whole again. Good job on standing up to those a$$holes. Their grip weakens daily. Do you hear that DM? That’s your grip I’m talking about, little one.
Hyenas near a fresh kill probably slobber less.
Anat,
Yeah, in a sense, but if someone were to give me a robot, I’d take it apart just to see how it worked. I’d wonder what powered it, how to get more power, and alternate sources of power. I’d wonder just why the designer chose that form and how effective it was in accomplishing its purpose.
And then I’d wonder what other uses I could put it to.
Definitions are very useful for understanding a specific meaning, but also limiting in formulating boundaries for the concept. You see people defining a term and not being able to think or reason beyond its limiting definition.
There’s an interesting article on how language shapes how we think. It might be worth a look. But it only hints at the breadth language and definition play in our thinking.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467304575383131592767868.html
When Voltaire said something to the effect, “If you are to argue with me, define your terms,” he was using sleight of mind to distract, limit and trap his opponent. Language can be a springboard to greater understanding or a prison to limiting understanding.
What really lies behind these robots? What really makes them tick? Not just pat answers. Exact answers. Answers specific to each of them. Answers that will free them rather than condemn them.
Just Me,
You’re welcome, Babes. I was in a rush so had to slam the post through (so many typos) and wasn’t sure how much sense it would make to anyone here. It simple brushed the surface of a much broader and deeper discussion. Sort of like using a puddle to represent the flooded Mississippi. It’s water, but…
And because there are so many bright individuals here, I figured it would be okay. They’d get it no matter how muddled I was.
Tell the Mister, “hello” for me.
Michael
Shalom Anat,
It’s wonderful to see your story. Your integrity to not leave the family debacle go unhandled as you were in the final steps of OT VII is a reflection of your true and wonderful self. I feel for you and your husband’s current situation with his daughter. She’ll come to the right decision and reunite with too – that’s my wishes for you. I agreed with all of the points you made and am inspired!
Anat, I’ve been waiting for your announcement and mazel tov indeed!
Your story definitely stirred the pot of emotions. I had to think back to the horrid times when children were taken from their families, families split up during wars, etc., and it’s heart breaking.
I can relate to your conclusion reached upon the threshold of attesting to 7. I came to a similar conclusion over the last year how I have been manipulated into tunnel vision being told what to do, who to be friends with, what groups to belong to, who I can and can’t associate with, who I can employ and where can I work. All under the guise of “greatest good”, “the ethical thing to do”.
Is that freedom? Is that cause over life? And in the very next breath be asked for money for books or some such thing! It’s a nightmare actually. As if someone stabbed a body and turned, looked you in the eye, no remorse, smiled and said “how about a book package for $3000?” Talk about 1.1.
Gives me the willies.
I don’t know how to spell it but you’ve got it – hoots-pah! Congrats and hope I get to talk with you some time.
Welcome Anat! We embrace you as you have embraced us. L, Rachel
Hello Anat – thank you for sharing your story. Mazeltov and may you truly bask in your freedom.
Thanks, Michael! I had a really nice cognition on the content of your comment. L, Rachel
Welcome to the free world.
Welcome Anat! Thank you for your heartfelt story.
Hello Anat,
Great story and well done on your level.
You r really a true OT.
Would you like to translate some important text to Hebrew?
I know lot of Israeli read English, but it easier to get to them in Hebrew.
Love.
Hello and thank you Anat!
Oh geez YOU were the Volunteer Minister I/C in the Tampa Bay area!!! YOU coordinated and GAVE care to many at that level of the Bridge is that correct?? The number of OT VIIs and VIIIs who were dying over a loooong period of time or not doing well in life gave me pause many years ago. I’m curious to know what the viewpoints were from the field who helped you regarding the deaths of so many OT VIIs and VIIIs in the Clearwater area alone in the last several years. Did they question wtf was going on or was it “they pulled it in” “have undetected out-ethics” or “it’s their overts” or what? Did you see a growing concern in them?
Brilliant Anat!
So happy you are reunited with your family!!!!
Way to go Anat and welcome to the sunny side of life! I had the pleasure to talk to you recently on FB. I am glad to have you as a friend. Lets stay in touch.
Hi Anat,
Can you email me at a.dephillips@comcast.net and that way I can keep you in the loop.
So happy you are here!!
🙂
Tony
FF
‘Love without conditions’
Exactly.
Perhaps we can teach the church by example what they have so far completely failed to duplicate.
Real love doesn’t come with conditions and it doesn’t = ‘2D flows’ or ‘being reasonable’ or ‘other fish to fry’ and it isn’t a weapon you can use against others.
Real love is truth. It is unconditional and more powerful than any weapon DM has in his ‘arse’nal. Hee hee.
I too am honored. It’s good to have you back on the team.
Same drill – door to door recovery. Personal contact. Get them back one by one 😉
Many already have and many more will 🙂
LOL – simple un-distilled cowboy truth.
And thank you for telling your (beautiful) story.
If just one person who is reading this decides to reconnect with loved ones again you will have delivered the most incredible effective blow to the enemies of Scientology.
Anat, WELCOME and WELL DONE Lady!!!! beautiful picture! Another with personal integrity. Thank you for standing up for truth.
Love Carol
Saludos Anat, you are contributing to the distribution of Sanity amongst many people.
A good friend of mine fron the Saint Hill days has just sent me the following message, quite appropiate to what is going on now:
The End Game 23/8/11
Dictators are falling all around us–new energies are being released around the planet. The status quo of the past age of spiritual entrapment has been interrupted–the pattern is no longer fixed and stable as the energies permeating the miasma around the planet are no longer in the stable pattern which has held the thetan in overwhelm and entrapment by the R6 bank.
The bank is like a computer virus which has invaded the system and installed a destructive program which has overwhelmed the computer and rendered it useless to the user. Thus the user remains at the effect of the program as it is parasitic on the user and he is left with little positive energy with which to handle the virus and its effects.
Now the virus has been identified and its methods mapped. Many beings have handled and erased the bank allowing them to take steps to bring free theta to bear upon the virus program. A large part of the program’s long “in situ” presence with the Collective Human Consciousness was its invisibility and the fact that it operated in a way that was accepted as the norm, despite its destructive effects. The light of truth and recognition has weakened its hold and the very fact of being spotted for what it is has sealed its ultimate fate. As more and more recognition and understanding come “on line” in the Collective Human Consciousness via catalytic resonance and free theta, then the demise of the bank will take place on an exponential curve.
If one visualizes the Collective Human Consciousness as “cloud” of resonant spiritual energies on which the virus feeds and has been parasitic, then the injections of theta energy from awakening thetans will grow within the cloud until it reaches “critical energy content” at which point the virus and the bank will vanish as if it had never existed. Only then will a new theta world come into being in an evolutionary leap of spiritual exhilaration.
At this moment in time, we know several things to be true.
a) The “virus” has been spotted and mapped as a destructive program, parasitic on the thetan and the Collective Human Consciousness.
b) Many beings achieved clear and erased the bank. They, being resident within the “cloud” and the Collective Human Consciousness, are and have been resonating clear theta for 50 years or more. The bank therefore on that data alone is severely weakened.
c) Clear terminals are also acting as catalytic channels for free theta and are resonating with intention while resonating theta within the cloud.
The free theta is de-enturbulating the entheta of the bank and as we look around the world we see before our physical eyes, the spiritual results of the work that has already been done. The original purpose has been achieved and now it is merely a matter of time before the 4th dynamic spots the collective bank and blows it!
This will be a release point of some magnitude!
It will also be a spiritual watershed for Man and a new beginning.
Yes, someone (who really knows the specifics) please answer Wise Fool’s question. This is a string I really would like pulled. “News of expansion” is one of the main things that make people in the church think that the church deserves their support, and anything that can be done to expose the specifics of the truth of this type of thing is very valuable.
Wonderful news, Anat!! You are on the ride of your life and will get so much out of it, you will be amazed. 🙂 May you never be same!!!!!!!!!
Love and ARC,
Gary (a villager with torches for davey’s coal-like heart)
The Emperor Penguin has no clothes (or cards in hand)! Yes, the little penguin wants to be Emperor Penguin On a Box. All hail EPOB! (too early to tease the animals?)
Michael
I sure would have loved to have been there in that conversation.
Here are some thoughts I have on the subject.
I understand there are other definitions and uses for the word, and concept, of pan-determinism, but I want to share this viewpoint with you.
When I look at Pan-determinism, at its best, I look at a concept of being “exterior” enough to be playing the whole game and everything in it. To me I do not limit it to simply controlling two or more sides of a “game”. It is “playing the game” FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF every being, and every Dynamic, in it.
Perhaps I am talking about a concept here of “full Pan-determinism”, but that is the essence of my definition.
I consider Pan-determinism to be inextricably linked to the concept of “Responsibility”, as : “Responsibility is the ability and willingness to assume the status of full source and cause for all efforts and counter-efforts on all dynamics”.
This also, curiously enough, is my concept of “full OT”, “a being who is able and willing to operate at full pan-determinism and full responsibility.” (notice that I did not say MUST, I said “able and willing”) I consider that “we beings” are potentially capable of operating at this level. I also keep in mind that any being capable of operating at this level would also seemingly be able to operate from one or more viewpoints or Dynamics, exclusively, should they choose.
Of course there are gradients in this, as in most things. I consider that as our “ethics” and responsibility levels expand and become expressed in our actions and our lives, we become more OT, and potentially more pan-determined, however it is achieved.
Eric S
Nice to see you Anat. Someday I hope we’ll meet in person, but in the meantime, welcome.
Ciao Anat & Family
great Declaration of Independence!!!!
Straight forward with very real questions that needed to be answered, we’ll see if Tommy Davis will answer you ………….. with some of his PR lines!!
Welcome !
Your Declaration will be translated and posted tonight at 5:00 PM ET on our Italian Blog:
http://indipendologo.wordpress.com
Please come by to say Hi to your Italian new friends!
GARY BALDI
Michael,
Thank You!! A very very good posting on “determinism’s”. It helped to clarify the point of pan and greatest good with an understanding of postulating for all instead of just for a few. My mind is smokin’! Happy Face here!!
Gary
Sam, exactly!
Sam, I still don’t know what all of the fuss is about the suppressive people. Anyone that has done a pro tr’s course should be in charge of their own comm lines. Isn’t that the E.P. of a pro tr’s graduate? Suppressive people, are just difficult people and out in the “real world” you can’t just disconnect from anyone who doesn’t agree with you or is trying to stop you. You have to DEAL WITH IT. Otherwise, everyone would be in bankruptcy! (Like the Church really is, but the holes get covered with beggar finds) I have noticed the culture is so far down into the enforce band that anyone who doesn’t lay down and spread their legs to an idea or order is automatically considered suppressive. And, you make an excellent point. Why hasn’t DM disconnected from Marty? He wants everyone else to stay away from Marty but he has all of his own attention stuck on him!
And perhaps your last comment was a bunch of incoherent gibberish.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
P.S. DM, I have noticed more and more Scientologists are “out to get you”.
When are YOU going to disconnect from us? And what are you doing to handle your own connections to “suppressive” people? Should you be communicating with us via all of these vias? I think there are more people against you now than supporting you. And I guess you don’t think that has anything to do with you right? Still, it should be obvious by the fact you are fixated on Marty and communicating daily through vias per the tech that you are pts yourself right? So what are you OSA staff going to do about that? Nothing. And you should think about yourselves. Because everywhere you look you can be at cause except when you look in what direction? At DM. What does that tell you about yourself?
Well done Anat. You chose to honor yourself above everything and as a result you find yourself reunited with family and surrounded by true friends.
You chose to be a warrior, to be awake and open to your OWN experience.
Those still stuck inside have lost confidence in their own basic goodness and are therefore easy pawns in the losing game of corporate scientology.
The goodness is there is a global paradigm shift where the despots and humanity haters are losing their stranglehold and failing.
You’ve helped that shift immeasurably by beautiful communication.
With love,
Windhorse
Opps — should be: The good news is there is a global paradigm …
Quick comment: My first sentence makes it appear that if you leave, stand up and speak out that you will be reunited with your family.
This sadly has not always been the case. I think it has something to do with the causes and conditions (karma) surrounding each individual.
Ultimately, I have confidence that everyone will reunite with their lost families … I have never believed in long term disconnection but disconnection as Sam mentioned above as a mean to destimulate etc … and as a large human family – bit by bit we will be standing together.
WH
Congratulations Anat! Thank you for speeking out and welcome in the free world!
Anat,
Thanks for sharing your story, and your freedom.
“By the power of truth, may joyous victory be yours!”
{Buddhist Devotions}
Much loving-kindness,
GMW
Agreed. That is the best way is to just confront the SP, there isn’t any harm in that, unless it is a stark raving madman one is disconnecting from, in which case MANY people would be doing the same thing so it would not be so out of place.
Thank you for this. I have certainly been guilty of applying labels as a substitute for understanding, especially when I was “in”. Anyone reading this blog is a spiritual being, including Mr. Miscavage. I am in favor of more understanding and truth, maybe less labels.
I agree, but I don’t think disconnection would be in order! 🙂
Plus Sam, I have noticed this myself many times and I believe even commented on it on this Blog. Why do people from the church continually SEEK OUT people their tech indicates should not be sought out? It is a valid question. The only answer I can think of that makes sense is that there is something wrong with them, especially to stand out in front of someone’s house in rain gear with umbrellas when the sun is shining. There is something the matter with them and most likely money is behind it not tech, not results.
Howdy Anat,
Thank you questioning disconnection and refusing to comply, and recognizing that someone forcing you to disconnect was not being CAUSE OVER LIFE! I love your courage, as that probably meant that they would not allow you to attest to OT VII. But you are now truly OT on your own determinism, and I am sure that the steps you have taken have resulted in much more freedom and self-determinism than you would have had, had you continued to stay disconnected. Now you can connect up with REAL Scientologists who have their personal integrity IN, and live the truly happy life you were meant to have. This announcement of why you decided to become Independent, will be a big blow to that horrible practice known as disconnection, and will make it that much sooner that the rest of us can be reunited with our loved ones!
Much love to you and your family,
Catherine Von Ach
Lawrence may not have been easily duplicated but he wasn’t mean spirited. In my opinion he isn’t trying to stir up trouble. How about granting him some beingness?
Brilliant distinction Sam!
+2
I second that emotion!
Well done Anat!
Thanks JM and yes, I do feel great!
Love,
Anat
Thanks LDW. Yes, you are right!
Love,
Anat
Thank you! It is great having my family back!
Love,
Anat
Shalom RJ.
Thank you Mat.
Hello Michael,
Thank you for the warm welcome and thanks for the advice.
I loved your short story! It is very funny.
Love,
Anat
You too Tara.
Love,
Anat
Thank you Karen #1! I find you to be sea of data! I love reading your comments.
Love,
Anat
If he’s a stark raving madman he is going to take you and your family and friends out with that baseball bat anyway. Better to confront it sooner than rather than later (IMHO).
Sam: “why would DM send Scientologists to harass Marty?”
Because Co$ sells a course (the PTS/SP course). It has a subtitle stating that a full application of the data would make a SP shatter.
So they have to prove that. Up to now they failed miserably.
Hello Anat,
great that you handled your “incomplete cycle of action” with some clearcut decision & communication 🙂
Recently a certain cult hasn’t been so lucky with its incomplete cycles :
http://www.registercitizen.com/articles/2011/08/22/news/doc4e51c9b1e4096910124168.txt?viewmode=fullstory
Great post Anat!
I am so impressed with the decision you made at the end of VII. My finishing of VII at Flag was one of the most stressful times of my life. (Ironic, huh?) I remember so clearly sitting under a tree at the Sandcastle, with headphones on, trying very SO hard to get as far away from the Flag mindset as as I could. I was hoping that music would bring me back to a happier reality than the suppression of freedom and self determinism I was facing daily on the base. I would have walked, but my husband was on the level too, and it would have created a huge problem for him.
Since we have “awoken” there are so many times we have reminded each other how happy we are to be away from Flag and the Ship. As horrendous as that time was for me, it was even worse for him. We spent over $100,000 just on the “wrapping up” of OTVII cycle. Most of it Sec checks. And then we got to go to the Ship for more of the same. The absolute worst attempt to squash me as an individual came on the Ship, just 30 minutes after attesting to OTVIII. That’s David Miscavige’s Church. That’s not LRH. You were smart to leave when you did. Life is so good out here, isn’t it?
Thank you Greta! Yes:-)!
Love,
Anat
Hey Jackson! Great seeing you on the site:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thank you tunedal.
Love,
Anat
Thank you T.O. but I don’t have everything I want, yet…:-)!
Thank you Paolo!
Love,
Anat
@ A Wise Fool and Get the Concept. Re Pasadena, those stats have to be fabricated. As of a few weeks ago, there was no full time Pro Sup, no Tech Sec, and the org is struggling to pay it electric bills each month. From an eye witness who was on course there recently, the “staff” are all about 18 years old, other than the ED and a couple others. There are never more than 2-3 people in the course room, and the Div 6 and Academy are run in the same room as there is only one Sup. The biggest stat boost they have had since opening was when about 10 people on OTVII were routed to Pasadena to redo their Purifs. There were also one or two VIIIs who came in to do their Objectives (I kid not). I know a new public who has routed out of Pasadena due to not getting timely service. Apparently there were not enough staff to help him with his cycle, nor enough people to twin with on course.
See comments below…
Hi Anat.
Thank you for speaking up and joining our community. It is good to have you here speaking out for sanity and freedom.
Eric S
Lol!
+1
Shalom Izhar,
Thanks! If you know Israelis, you’d know they can’t be hypnotized:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Scilonschools. I am connected to my family now and I hope my husband’s daughter will re-connect with us very soon!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Sherb for sharing your story!
Love,
Anat
Wow Dean! Thank you for your kind words:-)!
Love,
Anat
Hello Madam X,
Yes, the purpose is to share our experiences and make it safe for others to join.
Love,
Anat
Thanks Scn Ethics:-).
Love,
Anat
Wow! Thank you TroubleShooter for your kind words and wishes. I wish that too!
Love,
Anat
Dear Orthodox Scientologist,
I feel so welcomed here and thank you for sharing your story!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Rachel! I feel the hugs:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thank you dutyfree!
Love,
Anat
Thanks Erwin!
Love,
Anat
thank you very much Moneca!
So many of us share similar stories!
Love,
Anat
Dear FBF,
Thank you!!! I know that for this tech to be truly mine, I have to apply it!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Tom!
Love,
Anat
It was the VM Hotline group that assisted any Scientologist reaching for help, regardless of their case level. Yes, we took care of some OTs and some old timers that died pretty much alone!
I think that when one is sick, he’ll accept anything that might get him well again. I know of this person who was promised that if he only buys one more intensive, he’ll be able to get back on 7 which for him meant that he’ll be able to get well enoughto audit again while he was actually dying of cancer. After that intensive was done, he had to by another intensive, extanding his line of credit, knowing there was no way he would be able to pay it back. He was told by the regges that only tigers survive so to be a tiger he needed to find the money and make things go right…
Love,
Anat
Thank you Lucy!
Love,
Anat
Thanks Ziba!
Yes, it was very nice talking to you:-)!
Love,
Anat
Hello my friend!
Thank you and thank you for being such a great friend to me!
Love you lots!!!
Anat
Wow Alex! Thanks:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Gary!
It reminds me of a decision I made on one of the OT levels: To never be the same:-)!
Love,
Anat
Thanks Jim! I would LOVE meeting YOU!
Love,
Anat
Wow Gary! I love the Italians! They are the happiest group I have ever met! I couldn’t wait for one of the Italians to complete something so I can hear him/her speak and the rest CHEER!!! It was like having a great big party:-)
Thank you and I will go visit the Italian site!
Love,
anat
Thank you Windhorse!
I really enjoy your comments. There is so much compassion in them! I would love to be in communication with you.
I am on facebook or you can get my email from Marty.
Love,
Anat
Thank you Rita!
Love,
Anat
Thank you GMW!
Love,
Anat
Dear Lady Min,
Wow! What your wrote is beautiful!!! Thank you!
With Love,
Anat
Thank you Han Solo.
Yes, we knew it was coming.
Love,
Anat
Betty — Thanks for chiming in with some reality.
POB was there making grandiose pronouncements fairly recently — this was the next “Ideal Org” bringing sanity to society and demonstrating to the world once more the “straight up and vertical expansion” of his vulture culture.
Millions and millions down the drain to accomplish nothing more than pretty MEST.
I think it would be a great story for some journalist to visit several of his “Ideal Orgs” incognito (Janet Reitman did in NY Org) and then go to the Church and ask them to see the “evidence of the massive expansion”. They would then be given “guided tours” and suddenly the orgs would have public and staff present for the cameras.
Wow Magnolia! I totally can duplicate your experience. To me at times was like giving birth… It is almost out..:-)!
Thanks and Love,
Anat
Thank you Eric!
Love,
Anat
Thank you Haydn!
Love,
Anat
Karen is one of the best auditors in the world. Anything she says I value. I already know I will never become a highly trained auditor like that in this life, and it would be insane to disconnect from someone like Karen. How is it possible to disconnect from someone that was invited to join the Sea Org by LRH himself and then personally trained by him? It is not feasible. Yet, it makes sense to the church to do this, so I don’t disagree much if at all with anything anyone says about the Church of Scientology.
P.S. Even if its good news! 🙂 [which of course would be rare and unusual about that church].
Hi Betty,
Important data. Thank you!
Sam and TheOracle—
you don’t actually expect the ‘church’ or its “leader” to apply LRH tech now do you, LOL, especially the pts tech. You’re right, it is yet another blaring outpoint that people with tr’s and tech under their belts need to be TOLD who they can speak to or not. Why study the pts tech if we aren’t suppose to use it! I do feel that chasing down enemies was Ron’s achilles heal, but , DM has taken it to a whole new level making all Scientologist into Invest OSA Bots. Ron didn’t see every other Scientologist as an sp! The whole thing reminds me of Invasion of the Body Snatchers where once a person has been invaded (blanketed) by the sp being, the finger is pointed at those who are still free…then all the body snatching sp’s rush the person. Creepy.
Magnolia, your experience with VIII is so common as to be the norm. The more VIII’s I talk to the more I’m concluding the actual EP of VIII is “I’m so out of here!”
Hi Betty
Thanks for the update. That’s what I figured. About 4 weeks ago we were having dinner across the street from the Pasadena Org when a double decker bus pulled and about 40 people filed out and went into the org 10 minutes before 7:00pm. We thought wow what is that. New student routing on to course (joke). No. It was a tour put on by the AIA ( Association of Architects) coming to see the redo of the “historic” building. That’s all the Pasadena org can bring in tours of architects. 10 minutes later they all piled out of org because of the heavy regging (joke) or maybe not.
A Wise Fool
I remember voicing some of the same observations when I first got into Scientology in the early 70’s. Disconnection was in force at that time and I was told to disconnect from my father because he was worried I was involved with a cult. Then at the same time the registrars tried to scheme a way for me to get money out of him for my next step on the bridge!
Anat, this is the BEST TIME to speak OUT! Thank you for doing this!
WIth this attack against the Indies and mainly against Marty who keeps the main communication platform THIS IS THE BEST TIME TO COME OUT and SHUTTER Suppression.
People say what Marty has done and Marty in the past and bla bla bla…
I do not care about a past which has been so dark on so many aspects.
I care about a brighter future and IF people DO NOT come OUT NOW I am afraid we DO NOT have MANY CHANCES.
NOW is the TIME, Come OUT like Anat did! Let’s Shutter Suppression!
Anat Shalom and thank you very much from Greece.
(PS. with my wife when in the SO in Translations Unit we put together the TU in 1998-1999 (don’t remember the exact year) in Tel Aviv Org. It was so good with all the people there. Tzahi was the ED and many other great people. Some public(s) made a big donation and the TU after we put lines and terminals there was fully renovated. I know there are fighters there and big thetans. So we connect now again. Let us know of any news from there if you know.)
How can people in CofM be “cause over life”, when ARC=U=life, and no ARC exist in CofM?
Thanks Betty.
Eric,
Got what you said. Theory becomes a dragon when faced with practice.
Pan determinism does hinge on ethics and responsibility, but what criteria does one use? Whose idea of ethics? Whose idea of responsibility? Can these be codified? Can the codes by applied?
Odd thing is that if you have to write policy and codes, someone isn’t acting ethically and responsibly. And at the level of pan-determinism, you can’t enforce codes and laws anyways.
Theoretically, you couldn’t reach the level of pan-determinism as you view it without commensurate levels of responsibility and ethics. But, then you have the problem of what the Cause considers ethical and responsible. Humanity is a virus on this planet, so would such a “God” be acting ethically and responsibly by wiping out humanity? Doing so would certainly benefit hundreds of thousands of species.
On the second dynamic, would a guy be acting responsibly and ethically by pouring sexual pleasure flows at a female whether she wants this or not? After all, it’s just a consideration and pleasure is the highest goal of survival in this guy’s paradigm.
Track is full of beings acting in a pan-determined manner. Some with good effect, some disastrous.
Ethics seems to reduce to what is considered right and wrong regarding survival. But, for a being steeped in his own sense of “rightness” no action is wrong if he wants to do it. Any harm of another is always justifiable. So there would be no sense of conscience to prevent acts that most of us would consider irresponsible and unethical.
Pan determinism must always include choice and agreement of those involved. All seeing a common vision of what serves their needs and wants and goals.
This becomes complicated by asking, “what if the individual is merely dramatizing bank and has no choice?” When we do objectives, often we have to overcome resistance of the bank, but the goal is always to increase the person’s awareness and control not to take over.
Who do you want to be your god? Who do you want to make choices for you? Who do you want to control your life? Who do you want to control what you perceive? Who will be the author of your considerations, postulates and opinions?
If one were to be pan-determined, one must ask these questions from all viewpoints involved and respect the integrity of those involved. Otherwise, we move away from the greatest good, a good that benefits all. And, I mean all.
Ethical decisions do not have to be based on “either/or.” Either you comply or we’ll… The end product of that scale is the Borg Collective. And the Borg Collective would be pan-determinism at the opposite end of the scale of mutual pan-determinism.
More water splashed on the shore from the flooded Mississippi. The river is powerful and simple, but to examine and explain all that it is becomes so complex.
PJ,
Exactly. The ARC that does exist between staff and active public is based on very high R which is based on GROUP THINK! and therefore is void of all personal observation. “CAUSE OVER LIFE” REALLY MEANS OPERATING THE WAY THE COFS WANTS YOU TO OPERATE. IF YOU SMILE AND AGREE, PAY WHEN ASKED, WALK THE WALK ETC. THEN YOU ARE BEING CAUSE ACCORDING TO THE COS DEFINITION. If you go into extreme debt, past your ability to pay it back, then it is still being “cause”. If you pay the IAS tons of cash when you haven’t even finished your own bridge, then that is ’cause” also. When you discconect from family and friends then hey, you’re being cause again!
It is definitely phony ARC. Disagree and you are an enemy deserving, at the very least, to be nattered about and shunned and are “ethics bait”.
There is no way to increase the ARC with staff or public by using the C or the A because the R is all that counts. That is a suppressive mechanism which staff and then public operate from. If the ARC was real, then any one of the points would bring up the others. But..you can’t agree to disagree on anything, nor can you get them to see a different view because their view is FIXED.
“One view only, please” is what should be the motto of the “Church”. Opposite of being free, wouldn’t you say?
Hi Anat! Great write up – clean, direct.
I really, really despise disconnection.
I remember when I was a kid, I had a cousin that was taken to our local mission for some intensive auditing. During that time, he was “disconnected,” in that he was staying with the mission holder, and was not in contact with any of us, no TV, no radio. This was for a week or two. I was nine.
I remember thinking at the time that this made no sense – even then I could intellectualize it, rationalize it – of course he had to stay away from restimulating factors. But, he was disconnected from everything. Seemed wrong. And this was for two weeks.
The Church is an empty shell of what it is supposed to be – and it is cracking. I sincerely hope your husband’s daughter comes around and sees the light.
Dear Anat,
You answered my burning question – where was the photo taken?
What on earth did you do in Nome? I lived in Bethel, Alaska for about 8 years.
Love,
Ted Horner
I hear you! It’s actually a pts type three situation DM is in I think.
Maybe PTS type four. (That’s when everyone really is out to get you) (I just made that up, but it seems to be a situation that could be classified under ptsness)
Anat!
I love Israeli chicks. Really tough and a great sense of humor with a lot of love. Well done on standing up to be counted amongst the Indies!
Oh Sam.
I’m afraid you are far too uptone to be understood by those folks.
What are you talking about Love, Truth…
DM talk business and Money my friend.
Over dead bodies if needed.
My love and respect to you and your family
Dear Anat,
Fantastic – an OT who APPLY the tech – an OT who OPERATE!!!
Who don’t consider Scientology study as a brain exercise only to be used to control others and make money.
Not surprising the church is losing day after day – they keep SP declare the real OT and keeping inside the PTS Robots.
Co$ squirrel group, not able to apply simple basics suck as ARC and comm cycle, executing suppressive orders only approved by the squirrel Leader of Leaders, against an independents field of OTs applying the tech and able to think for themselves – what an unfair battle.
Peace and Love to all of you.
I was in the SO for 23 years and was booted out the minute the Freewinds found out that I had teste positive for HIV from a blood transfusion I received in the ship’s home port. I managed to survive which is covered in other posts and one this week on scncult .com. I was going to go to bonaire to run in the 5k on SO day like we did on the ship. Someone found out and I received a call from OSA WUS to come and see them. I told them that I just wanted to see my friends. The reply was “Ex S.O. members don’t have any friends. “So this is their thanks. You give your life to a group. You almost die twice for them. you get their stats up hundreds of times doing all-nighters when you are already half dead. You save them millions of dollars doing jobs that they would have to hire trained engineers to do. And just like that, you don’t have any friends. OK, maybe they are right. My friends are those who believe in the creed of the church, not those who hypocrites who just say they do.
Bill,
Hello and welcome here! I remember you well.
You and Scott were Freewinds pillars and it disgusts me the way you have been treated.
The link to your story on Scientology-Cult is here: http://www.scientology-cult.com/bill-straass/479-freewinds-off-purpose-off-course.html
I think this is information everyone should have
Bill — please report this on the latest thread so people will see it.
Anat, thank you for sharing your story and for the strength you carried with you to see the out-points and act on them. Now that is Integrity! I am so happy that you have reconnected with your family. You bring a smile to my face 🙂
Shannon
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