While this group is still a bit amorphous to the liking of some, it is damn effective. In just about twenty-seven hours you all contributed what I predicted we would likely collect by Friday. And that figure is what I thought it would take to reverse the vector of attack from Debbie and Wayne and re-direct it back onto her tormentors.
You all acted nearly spontaneously from fourteen different States of the US and six countries.
I estimate that the amount we have to work with is about 1/20th of what Miscavige has already spent in legal fees alone in mounting his attempt to crush Debbie and Wayne. But that is one major difference between corporate scientology and Independent Scientology. The business of attempting to kill and bury truth is one heck of a lot more expensive than is the activity of purveying and nurturing truth.
Our first point of strategy is simple, taken from the Tao:
Men are born soft and supple;
dead, they are stiff and hard.
Plants are born tender and pliant;
dead, they are brittle and dry.
Thus whoever is stiff and inflexible
is a disciple of death.
Whoever is soft and yielding
is a disciple of life.
The hard and the stiff will be broken.
The soft and supple will prevail.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
A question about this situation… why would the lawyers who generally do Miscavige’s bidding balk at going after Debbie Cook? What line does that assignment cross that puts it beyond the usual orders from DM? Thanks.
Marty — truly terrific news. The generosity of spirit demonstrated on this blog manifesting itself by the action of financial giving.
Fantastic.
Your Teo Te Ching quote is perfect.
WH
Booya! 😯
I love us! ♥
We so rock! 😀
Zale & I happy to contribute. Please keep informed if more is needed.
Bend with the wind and you will never break.
Resist the wind and snap like a twig.
Being like a Gumby is both fun and rewarding.
+1 Perfect!
Thanks – saved me the bother trying to put my own feelings into words 😉
Still fighting with paypal that the money goes out. But will make it at the end!
Seems I have different accounts there and can’t remember them !
My husband’s and my check’s in the mail.
What a brilliant pre-emptive strike. It is going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I hope the lawyers of laozi do not sue for copyright violations on the tao te king.
Pitch-perfect quote!
Does Debbie WANT our help? Did I miss that part?
Marty,
Thanks for the good news. Someone else you mentioned previously as being under attack is OTDT. Can you let us know what is happening there, and is there anything we can do?
Deep fax let me know that OTDT is flourishing and prospering, and meanwhile others have picked up the mantle of incisive POB satire. All is well in the world….
My wife and I deal regularly with drug addicts who do not initially “want” our help. But by the end of the program they realize it was only their reactive mind and its aberrant cravings that resisted.
Bending like a willow
Mike,
Thats good news. Thanks
BT: Here is my view. I believe whatever agreement Debbie may have signed is unenforcable due to a) the circumstances of it being signed, b) the “breach” consists of sending an email to Scientologists in good standing and NOT statements to the media or on a blog or assisting someone in a lawsuit and c) I believe the distinct possibility exists of a strong countersuit not only for the things that were done to Debbie by Miscavige and Co. but also by reason of the libelous statements that have been made about her (she is “uninformed” and an “apostate”) which likely put the CHURCH in breach of the agreement.
While big firm lawyers will do almost anything for money, there are some things they are unlikely to do and one of them is file a loser lawsuit as it will harm their reputation and more importantly the reputation of the firm (and thus potentially cost them on their route to partner/senior partner/managing partner). They will very rarely turn down DEFENDING anyone no matter how guilty they may be, but filing a loser lawsuit is a different matter. But a sole practitioner doesnt have these concerns, he is more worried about whether the client will pay the bill as he gets paid whether he wins or loses the case and its lucrative business litigating for the church as they will rack up as many hours as possible.
I’m curious about how far a “gag order” can go in terms of limiting all private speech. Would an email to friends fit into this limitation? Really?
The fact that that Corporate Scientology felt it was necessary to “gag” Debbie is telling.
Shazam! Promising…
Did Louisiana get counted in the 14? I’ve sent something via croc or gator or possum or pelican or something like that, and I’m purdy shur ya ain’t got it yet.
Was responding to mike Rinder’s post. Gosh this blog moves FAST!
Agree partly with Mike’s summary; that the subject of confidentiality agreements is in issue. However while it’s a fascinating legal point, namely the tension between First Amendment and common law specifically contract law, what is lacking is a substantive breach with a reasonable prospect of success.
So, there may have been a breach of the confidentiality agreement, although it could be argued that the agreement should be void for lack of parity etc, what Camp Miscavige would have to prove, and the burden of proof is always on the claimaint, is that she is in breach of confidentiality agreement which is really dicey when all she did was to send out an email with LRH references.
Good luck with that.
Sue — Excellent question. As Sara just said, “good luck with that.”
And yes, you are right, that anyone needs to be “gagged” about what they know about the church is pretty bizarre isnt it. It’s not like they are going to disclose the design of the newest microchip or the formula for Coca-cola (arguably this could apply to OT Levels but they are already all on the internet) or secret marketing plans (they are all in published policy).
Scientologists, falling lock step, hiring gladiators to fight it out in a dead corrupt system. I am in doubt, to say the least.
Sara – Thanks. Spot on. Sending an email quoting LRH policy is a pretty flimsy breach of anything…. And you are of course right, you really don’t want to be the claimant in any sort of breach claim.
In doubt about what Victoria?
LRH
“We of the church believe:…
That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely thier own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.”
David Miscavige:
“Shut the *%&#$* UP. Did I give you &%*#*ing permission to speak? Where’s that *^&%$*#ing lawyer? SUE her *^&%$#*@*ing ass.”
LRH
“A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology”
“I am in doubt, to say the least”
Doubt Formula – Page 101 of the New Ethics book.
Follow the steps completely and let me know if you need help finding the next condition up.
A public announcement of “wanting help from independents” is a change that may occur but it would counter her assertions of only being in comm with scios in good standing. Finish your doubt. I smelt sock puppet… Say it aint so…
Why on earth does Debbie Cook fall under a gag order if she left and decided to tell her side. and covered the spread of data by wide spread coverage The church does not owe her or one should ask do they think they do ? One could ask if she signed any type of agreement before leaving.if diseffected and left then what ??
Regradless comemnt to this is obvioulsy DM thinks he is some bloody Supreme Leader and can pay any bucks to shut some one up without take a gun and shooting them whether they are in / out /or on the fence
I then question the same could have been tried to be inforced on Rathbun/Rinder and it didn’t work.So why her ?.
What right does the church have to take hold of some ones life / and control when they leave now, and put them under gag exil status for trying to speak the truth on what really is ovbserved within and making it known to those she worked with / and all to know..Its not freedom of speech, thats how I see it So what am I missing..
Clearly you did. It was covered in the earlier post already.
My help is unconditional but you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to.
All Debbie did was to simply encourage her fellow parishioners to make more of an effort to follow the policy of her church which she carefully quoted.
It would be like a Catholic encouraging those in her church to follow the 10 Commandments. Could you even imagine the Pope going after the person
with PIs and lawyers??? Who would be that stupid?
Mike;
I have no idea of what is in these ‘gag’ orders, if it forbids ANY comment re the CofS or not. I presume it is intended to stop the person from discussing anything they experienced while IN the CofS. What Debbie posted, almost all of it, is data she could have come across after having left the CofS, it is all over the net. So, if she is gagged to not comment on what she learned while in the CofS, the bulk of her email may not apply. The only part I can see that may apply is what she said about being at INT.
Just wondering …
I may have missed it on yesterday’s comments…Is there an address where a check may be sent for the “Debbie Cook Fund?”
HI;
There is very great danger here for DM and the CofS, more so than ever before. This could blowback in a very major way. Anyone with two cells left in their brain would just leave it alone. Unfortunately, someone is one cell short …
b
Great! Marty what translation f the Tao are you using?
Hi, “Minerva!” How have you been ?
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Mat,
I think I know who would be that stupid.
ps Did you guys watch that Thrive doc I talked about at dinner?
🙂
Victoria,
When you make statements like that without giving more data it makes you look bad.
Sounds like you have other fish to fry Bryan… LOL.
which Lawyers do you think turned down filing a suit? Monique Yingling, Elliott Abelson?…….
LDW, to what lengths do you go to get them to do the program?
If they do, I want their longevity secrets!
Caveat: I am not a lawyer/
Mike, isn’t an “agreement” signed under duress null and void, anyway?
I should think that alone used as an “Affirmative Defense” would be enough to make them go away, since Darth Midget surely doesn’t want the evidence of said duress heard in court.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Great! there is always one of these.
Just a note for anyone here, I think a “gag order” is imposed by a Judge under certain circumstances to prevent information possibly pertinent to the outcome of the case from being made public, and lawyers sometimes are the targets of this, prevented from speaking to the press. A “confidentiality agreement” is usually in corporate world employment contracts where the employee will become privvy to sensitive trade secrets (such as formulae and designs), but a notable exception to these is whistle-blowing on crime, and another notable one is reporting of things which are in plain view of many in the organization not subject to a confidentiality agreement. Just guessing … but I fail to see how anyone could argue that readily available LRH policy is something not readily visible or for that matter not already disclosed, and anyone not locked in “the hole” for the past six years knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Co$ is a) interested in fund-raising hunge amount of money, and b) buying very expensive new buildings with those funds. Alleging a violation of confidentiality there, is like claiming the knowledge that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are Scientologists is “confidential”. Really – there’s a big question whether the Stupor Power Building is now more representative of the Co$ (in a very unfavorable light).
Rant, rant, rant. I never get to rant. Little goody two-shoes. But I do wish “gag order” and “confidentiality agreement” would not be used interchangeably. They’re not the same thing, afaik.
Just askin’, sheesh.
About taking it into the corrupt judicial system, Mike.
Thanks for dulpicating my question enough to ask.
Do we really have to go there? We’re just feeding the monster. At least that is how I see it. It’s dev-t that drags on and on and on.
What is the benefit? I’m being sincere here.
I guess I am used to that by now. I am not here to prove anything, or look good an stuff.
I saw that docu a while ago bryan. Good work, well timed.
And that one cell has long since short-circuited. How bizzare that we should consider Debbie brave for merely writing a standard KR and ensuring it’s received. And look at the number of people who refuse to write their KRs or make themselves know, most out of sheer terror of what the little prick might do to them and their family or their income.
From the Policy Letter
THEORY OF SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS
“It has been found by actual experiment (L.A. 1950) that groups of
people called on to select a leader from among them by nomination and vote routinely select only those who would kill them. They select the talkers of big deeds and ignore the doers. They seem to select unerringly the men of average skill. That is never good enough in a leader and the people suffer from his lack of understanding. If you ever have occasion to elect a leader for
your group, don’t be “democratic” about it. Compare records as follows: Take the person who is a good auditor, not just says he is. Take the person who has a good, not necessarily the highest, profile and IQ. Take the person who can grant beingness to others. And look at the relative serenity and efficiency of any past command he may have had. And even then you’re taking a chance. So always elect temporarily and reserve the right of recall. If his first action is to fire people, recall him at once and find another leader.”
The group which allowed miscavige to assume the role of “leader” is far too cowed and ill to fire the little dickey.
The only reason he’s still in power is because he’s conned parishoners into believing that buildings are senior to results. AND he’s amassed sufficient money to pay sleazy lawyers to cover his crimes.
60 Billion dollars couldn’t save Bernie Madoff. A billion won’t save dave.
There will be a legal battle, and when it occurs, davie’s arrogance and his lies will be his demise.
The funeral pyre is getting higher and higher, the match will soon be lit.
If this case is the match, Marty, I want you to know that I am “All In.”
david miscavige…YOU’RE FIRED.
“… or secret marketing plans (they are all in published policy).”
Very droll, Mike, I nearly fell off the chair laughing!
I had the same though regarding the creed. Thank you for posting.
Well said.
Victoria,
Nobody benefits in the “justice” system but the lawyers.
But sometimes you are dragged into court against your will. If Debbie is sued by the Church she can’t say “Oh, I don’t like the judicial system, so I am not playing…” Well, she could, but the church would get a default judgment against her and if she chose not to pay, eventually a contempt order against her and then law enforcement shows up to take you to jail.
So, there isnt anyone in their right mind who wants to be in litigation. But if you know its coming, you had best be prepared as best you can.
As the majority of parishoners say, “Anita loves them through the program”
It’s the highest level of affinity combined with the very best of tone 40.
Stephen Mitchell
Not related to the subject matter directly. However I didn’t want the day to go by without commenting that 26 years ago today LRH departed leaving the ball in our hands to continue what he started.
Of note, starting with DMSMH in 1950 quite a number of organizations of all types and management at various levels were in place when he left, 36 years after DMSMH.
Conversely, with all of what was in place in Jan 1986 to work with as a starting point, where things are at today is a dismal picture. The omitted or lost production and expansion with full access to all 1986 resources and organizations is in my opinion the most telling statistic of the current state of affairs and management.
Thanks, Mike, and thanks to Sara, below, as well. Does the Sea Org extract “gag” contracts from everyone who leaves in good standing, or is that reserved for special cases?
Hi Bruce. I am from your neck of the woods(or swamp) and would like to get i contact with you on private lines. Please email me at kye@hush.com. thanks.
Love the Tao quote. I sense the tides are turning and the past activities of keeping people in fear are not as strong as before with the COS.
They are signed by everyone that leaves the SO (or are supposed to be), but then there are the “special cases” — those who have worked directly with Dear Leader hisself, and their contracts are modified and usually include some consideration (as a contract where someone gives up their rights to free speech for $500 are a joke — an element of a contract is consideration and where there is none or inadequate consideration the contract is unenforcable).
Caveat: I am not a lawyer/
You crack me up Michael!
No, but you play one on the internet! 😆
And I think you’re right. At least in Louisiana you would be.
+ many!
Thanks for this reminder – the date had passed me by. But isn’t it poignant that the juxtaposition of the Scientology LRH left behind in 1986 and today’s sorry mess could hardly be in sharper focus: on the one hand there’s Debbie Cook, the highest trained and longest serving Captain of LRH’s Flag, a loyal servant to LRH’s legacy being hounded and harassed by the self-styled “pope” of Scientology itself. As Alanis Morissette would say, Isn’t it Ironic.
Reblogged this on My LRH.
(I am totally loving that Reblog button up there!) 😀
Training and Auditing are the place where the gains are to be had. Also appreciating the beauty of life, of other people, of nature, family, art and creativity. These law suits are a distraction for the above. Scientology has a VERY ARCX field into which new public have to walk into. It needs cleaning up. New people need to get auditing which is hard to go when they are surrounded by so much negativity towards the subject. I say use the funds to establish a training centre and to purchase books. Les and Anita Warren, Silvia Kusada, Mary Freeman, The Ron’s Org, they’re out there building centre’s where PC’s can come and be audited and get trained. Is it not time to move on from lawsuits? Only a real theta environment will bring the loyal officers back on the deck. I was one of those loyal officers and I was with Hubbard through dark days. It would take a minor miracle to turn around Scientology in it’s current state.
Fair enough. I guess its like paintball “hey same team! Same team!”. Oops.
What I am implying Marty is that you have a great opportunity here to turn around the fate of Scientology and believe that you will do so by using the same tactics that were used to silence critics and ex-members in the Church. Litigation is a dirty business. Auditing is not. I know a lady who took the Church to court to get a refund of £10,000 after going clear and being mishandled and she won. I know another UK PC who did not get her services or her £10,000 but got a lot of random odds and ends from the bookstore instead that are certainly not worth £10,000. A friend paid £1,0000 for her purif about 8 years ago and did not get it and she got the money back. I can give more true accounts of people who see truth in the tech but don’t seem to be able to get anywhere, even when they write uplines to management. These examples are from the 90’s and 00’s. Am I right to assume that there are thousands of such people out there? I first got into doubt on yourself when I felt you were unsually harsh an an ex-SO kid here who no longer believed in the tech due to his unhappy experiences in the SO and who doubted the tech. I say this because children need love and care and this kid clearly didn’t it. It seemed apparent that you would not show remorse for the suffering of anyone unless they either still agreed with Hubbard’s philosophy or they seemed to serve you some way in the public arean. I’m asking you with deep sincerity to come from behind the magicians curtain and to help fix these ARC X’s so people can see that Scientologists are good people. ‘What is greatness’. I can say no more. I came here as a spiritual messenger. I’ve never shyed away from doing my bit and I cannot turn a blind eye to a situation. I want the best for you and all those seeking spiritual freedom.
Got it. But if you want to be duplicated accurately you may want to give more data.
I have a hard time believing your comment is serious.
Of course we need to get auditing going, but legal defense is always important when facing a litigous SP.
Tony had a hard time believing you last post was serious, wait til he gets a load of this one!
You need to get a grip. Anyone who thinks Marty is “behind the magicians curtain” and that he isnt applying “What is Greatness” is living in another universe.
Is this your real name Stephen? Where are you located? Were you ever in the SO or on staff? Just to get some context that may help to understand where you are coming from as so far it seems to be out of left field….
Excuse my typo’s but I meant that I felt you are still using Church tactics; the field of law as a form of salvation for Scientology and that auditing is really the only tool that we need. Once our minds are strong, we can overcome just about any attack the GE’s throw at us. You have a blog that gets how many visits a week? How many ex’s come through here? How many trained people are you friends with? Whilst all the people I mentioned have done well with their Scientologt centre’s, you have the power and the position to do more with the people and resources you have at your fingertips. I agree with Victoria asking her question. Let’s see if Debbie asks for help first. I’m not in doubt on the tech, I’m sure Victoria isn’t either. The doubt lies with how we fix the field and try and get people out of the labyrinth. I understand Marty that it’s been hard for you to leave the Church after more than two decades and much of it surrounded by insanity. The physical abuse has been going on since the 80’s if the account on the 1987 Panorama show is correct. Miscavige just wants to drag everyone back into lawsuits. As long as we respond to his game through ‘contacts’ we’re like pawns on a chessboard that seems to spread out. Those people that come here and want to talk and who are mildly critical of Scientology, deep down know something. Some are not nice, but many were Scientologists for a long time and are longing for that compassion and ‘sorry’ that they never found. Just my point of view. I will take myself and my typo’s away now. Distracted by great music.
Same team? Never in a million years. Miscavige plays in a team of ‘only one.’
Stephen, or whomever you are. Flunk. Your a messenger all right, but there is nothing spiritual about it. Pretty snide and 1.1. You talk about magicians curtain and your the one hiding behind it. You fool no one.
” Distracted by great music.” I guess that’s the difference between you and I. Nothing distracts me.
Nice reference. RTC was turned into the tech annd policy (squirrel) SS and “assumed” a higher status, rather than being an embodiment of its PART in the workable management and “checks and balances” system LRH intended, penned and demanded be held in place to Keep Scientology Working. “David Miscavige… You’re fired!” lol
Fair enough. If that is what you think. Is it 1.1 only because I believe the tactics being deployed here are maybe not the best? Especially as no lawsuit has actually yet to be launched. Believe me when I tell you, auditing and training is the way forward. There is not an ethics situation here that needs handling. I’m not hiding. The magicians curtain is the sheet of blackness thrown over us to keep our power back. I don’t take it lightly that OT3 is ridiculed in the press, on the net and that many of the top people in Scientology have died of cancer (Yvonne, Annie, Mary Sue, Clare Reppan to name a few) and that those on the outside are bickering.
OSA == Onerous Skulduggery Associates
Looking at interviews with Kendrick Moxon — hte man ( and he is solid) is so mean and wound tight, he has to be calculating (computing) to harm (assasinate characters) at every step…what is that? Eventual implosion. He leaves no room for anyone or anything else to be right — a misunderstood on the word “unreasonable.”
The door is always open a crack, but Kendrick Moxon has to take the first step, with courage.
BTW what happened to Carla Moxon, his former wife? And didn’t they have a daughter?
Sorry about the typos (assasinate characters) — should be assassinate characters. Intentional orchestrated ignoring of truth to perpetuate calumny as is Kendrick Moxon’s specialty is a double ass profession … assass inate.
You were certainly distracted by Debbie’s email enough to warn people against contacting her before collecting funds for a defense she had not asked for and based on information you received from the ‘inside’, then the attack was ‘thwarted’ with no details presented. I feel that you are being distracted from delivery.
Hi Bodil,
I want to send through the mail too. Do you know the address on where to send? Is there a po Box.
Thanks!
I wasnt talking about David Micavige. I was talking about splattering a couple of paint balls on Victoria. She stated she was just clarifying, or confused so I retracted my comments, and apologised with an analogy (“oops” meaning sorry). AND yes you are right about David Miscavige being “only one”.
I am very happy that we can organize against the shenanigans of the pecksniffian pope and his attempts to silence those who know what he is all about and are not afraid to tell.
One thing DM is good at is helping the independent field expand. So, in that regard he is kind of reverse engineering his downfall and our expansion in the same strokes.
All things being equal, I will be thankful for what we have.
Stephen… you could not be more inversely inaccurate in the following comment you made to Marty Rathbun. Truly, 180 degree opposite is true. You wrote: “It seemed apparent that you would not show remorse for the suffering of anyone unless they either still agreed with Hubbard’s philosophy or they seemed to serve you some way in the public arean.”
You obviously either 1) don’t know Marty by his actions these past 2 years
2) do know Marty by his actions and are blowing spin
And this, Stephen Dorf “I’m asking you with deep sincerity to come from behind the magicians curtain” LOL!!!!! Why is that so funny? Well, because….
Marty Rathbun is not only way out in front and has been out on a limb to help others, he has taken more responsibility publicly, including the sharing of his own personal thoughts, sufferings, and shortcomings, than any human being should ever have to in front of an entire world.
Stephen Dorf —> “and to help fix these ARC X’s so people can see that Scientologists are good people. ”
That, Stephen, sort of sums up what Marty Rathbun does — the world for once knows the difference between Scientology and the hijacked corporate brand of abuse that calls itself a “Church of Scientology.”
So see, 180 degree opposite of what you called it.
Funny!
Sorry,! error
If you have nothing to hide and my posts are rubbish then let them through. The people who post here are strong enough to decide what is best for them and what they feel is right. There is nothing wrong with communication and exchanging points of view. It is unfair to have a debate with someone and have others make judgement on them by removing information. My repsonse to your “distracted” quip contains valid points. I don’t ‘act on orders, no questions asked’.
Lynne, their longevity secrets fall under the trick of creating a church like CST and RTC .
Stephen, when you say, “… bring the Loyal Officers back on the deck.” do you mean ‘back on board’? Following Command Intention?
I think the correct viewpoint is not to be a victim, but to get to the truth of it all. And expose the truth, so one can as-is. And I think people here are seeking that.
you said stephen:
” Some are not nice, but many were Scientologists for a long time and are longing for that compassion and ‘sorry’ that they never found”.
I ain’t “sorry”. I am looking for the truth, the time line. I wish to as-is so to as to go forward on greatest good for the greatest NUMBER of dynamics, not greatest number on a dynamic. I wish to help to survive, but I ain’t gonna self sacrifice anymore. If the the church has a billion bucks tucked away somewhere, well god damn, I need to pay for my bridge, I’m gett’in old body wise, you know. All my money should go towards ME going free. Don’t you think? And if I go free, others will go free, don’t you think? Just naturally.
you state——
“Only a real theta environment will bring the loyal officers back on the deck.”
What so everybody is happy and jumping for joy?
NO
The problem is, well the problem is not a theta environment, and everybody needs to focus on, what the real problem is, and that is Out Tech, it’s being slowing altered—————-right. You need to verify this for yourself. You need to see how the tech is slowly being altered. You need to compare DATA. That is all you need to do.
I have just received a scrambled digital communication from my undercover Int source (whose name shall never be revealed, even if I were to be tracked down and triple-water-boarded while having the soles of my feet whipped with wet bamboo while being made to look at glamor photos of David Miscavige) but I will reveal his code name, ‘Mega-Bite’. Only he and I know his true identity.
He snaps up pieces of scrap paper out of Miscavige’s trash bin before Security can grab it and run it through their NSA-caliber Ultra-Irrecoverable Paper Disintegrator. He is within earshot of Miscavige often and has told me that he overhears DM talking to himself a lot, so it’s almost like getting a glimpse into the Big Cheese’s head.
Some of it may be meaningless, while other snippets or chunks of philosophy or description of inside events may illuminate or explain or inform or contain a crucial missing dot to connect another piece of the adventurous puzzle of: HOW A LUNATIC RUNS THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY. An interesting subject.
Inside the Cult Bubble of the Church I’m sure they look at stuff like this and go, “That is disgusting, look at what they said about COB. Disgusting, disgusting, disgusting.” Maybe others who read it and still have one last spinning molecule of Pan-Determinism and humor left in their skulls think, “Good god, that’s fu@%ing funny!”, but ride the wave of group agreement and proclaim, “Yeah, you’re right…wow…that’s…ah…disgusting.” So, there you go.
Maybe a minor chuckle will be generated. Hey, a chuckle is worth something, right? Especially if it makes you chuckle twice. Three chuckles is approaching Deep Fax level and an outright gaffaw is closing in on OTDT territory, which is hard to compete with I must say. But Deep Fax disappeared and it appears as though OTDT was driven off by Miscavige Slime-Bots. Almost seems like he chose the War Games solution of, “The..only..way..to..win..is..not..to..play..the..game.”
I’m not trying to be OTDT. I gots me own shtick, though I am dependent on Mega-Bite for fodder. He probably won’t post directly, except for the rare ocassion when he can sneak on a computer and erase his tracks. Hard to do at Int without being watched, so we’ll have to wait and see.
Anyway, here’s the essence of Mega-Bite’s email where-in he relayed what he heard DM mumbling to himself as he read Marty’s post today, when he hit the Tao verse:
DM Mumbling Dialog:
“Yeah, yeah, yeah, born supple and pliant…bullshit…born fu@&ing stupid and zombie-like…fu@%ing herds of stupid cows or grass is more fu@%ing like it.”
“…Dead…hrmmph…fu@%ing doomed from the fu@%ing start. This fu@%ing planet better fu@%ing shape up. Get fu@%ing rigid and tough or else for chrissakes. Hold your fu@%ing position. Get fu@%ing hard. Start hearing what I’m fu@%ing saying. Take no fu@%ing prisoners. No fu@%ing mercy. Soft? Flexible? Whoever wrote this Tao crap was a fu@%ing moron. I’ll show ’em flexible. I’m gonna fu@%ing flex them right out of existence. Fu@%ing Tao. C@#&sucking Squirrel mother-fu@%ers.”
Carcha,
Good point to clear up, the difference that is. And as for ranting…good rant too 🙂
I mean the biggest outpoint in the world is how come so many scientologists I know are in debt to their eye balls. that is a big outpoint. Here they are OT7, OT8, done the L’s, and so on and on and on, know they got to do TR’s/Obj ciurse to get in PT. Jesus Christ already, how can somebody who is OT8 now have to do TR’s/Objs to get fully in PT. Fuck, that is weird. And in debt big time. Jesus christ already, that is an outpoint, big time………….
sorry for spelling, but hey, figure it out………..
Something like this?
: “…. I agree never to create or electronically post or publish or attempt to publish and/or assist another to create for publication or posting by means of newspaper story, magazine, article, book or other similar form, any writing, or to broadcast, or to assist another to create, write, film or video tape or audio tape, electronic posting, any news programme, show, programme or movie, concerning my experiences with, knowledge of, or information concerning the Scientology religion, or any of the Releasees, or any of their respective staff, parishioners, or former parishioners. …..”
Seems pretty familiar… 🙂
” The doubt lies with how we fix the field and try and get people out of the labyrinth”
That is a telling statement.
I think the opposite. How do we get people out of labyrinth of the church and into the field of truth, what is really going on, the real time line of the tech, and when it was altered……………
Well punk, since you’ve accused me of censoring when I haven’t; and your comm is far too entheta for this intelligent forum, one last word of advice: Shape up or ship out.
That’s because – right in alignment with HCOB The Criminal Mind – you think I am just like you. My blog activity is but a micro-fraction of my production.
Reply with your real name and your delivery stats for the past month – or this here comm of yours is your last in this forum, until you come above 2.0.
outpoint————
oh joe public asks the OT8, but he doesn’t know he is OT8——–yes I’m OT8, well what’s it like, oh I’m so happy it’s unbelievable. Ok, I’m your neighbor and I notice you have a 10 year old car and your house needs painting………..oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s just MEST. Joe public probes a little, asks him OT8, say are you in debt, yes of course, so is everybody else………………..ok—————-says Joe public……………………Church of Scientology………….
vs Scientology and what LRH says———don’t ever borrow, stay away from the banks, keep credit as a second cushion……………
I find it difficult to believe that PoB’s grand strategy is “to drag everyone back into lawsuits.” That doesn’t appear to be his MO. He likes to threaten and have his attorneys send nasty letters that intimidate others so that he doesn’t have to initiate litigation – litigation in which he might be called as a witness. Man, I would love to have that guy in a deposition. Any half-competent lawyer can make him look like a titanic schmuck in the first 15 minutes.
Random stranger….too funny. Really, too funny.
Enjoyed Random strangers remarks….too funny.
Click the donate button at the top of the blog to find the mailing address.
Marty, Your remarks are always powerful. Thank you.
Awesome!
My sentiments exactly, LDW!
Brilliant computing comedian.
You can out create the best of them.
Can’t hold down a wild thetan!! 🙂
Thank you, Marty. This guy talks like an OSA troll or an idiot. He says “I was one of those loyal officers and I was with Hubbard through dark days.” No particulars offered. What is he talking about? As you know “loyal officer” has a particular, special meaning. What is he trying to say there, and what does he mean, he was “with Hubbard through dark days?” No clue. He then presents himself as sympathetic to independent Scientologists while he covertly attacks you without really saying what the basis of his attack is, or even admitting it IS an attack. I agree with you 100% about the tone level of the rantings and ramblings of this supposed “Stephen Dorff”.
Well I’ve decided for myself. Get lost Dorff. Not interested in your BS, entheta.
I have seen her in action–Les does not exaggerate, Anita is a marvel of application of standard ARC, no matter what.
Stephen – “There is not an ethics situation here that needs handling.”
I think you do not understand that ethics is to handle other and counter intention. If you do not see that DM and the actions taken by OSA, et all are a counter intention to one such as Debbie Cook, a Scientologist of long term, then you have major issues with LRH. Debbie Cook is attempting to communicate to her audience, not to us, that there are serious departures in the current regime to what LRH wrote. That is a truth. Just as in auditing, only the truth causes conditions to change to the better. Personally, I don’t give a crap if “those on the outside are bickering.” I only care about those working to change conditions and I don’t find that in your comments.
By the way, waiting until a lawsuit has been “launched” as you stated is about as causative as waiting until the tornado picks up your car with you in it and then you say to others in the car – maybe we should have paid attention to the radio warning and gotten to a safe location. At that moment you might have to seriously kiss your ass goodby. The time to become cause may have passed you by. That is a direct indication of stupidity and non confront.
Back to your statement about “not an ethics situation here that needs handling.” DM has suppressed the very technology and the subject and public of Scientology. If you do not consider that an ethics situation then don’t even bother about you “don’t take it lightly” about the many good people who have died from cancer – if things don’t change that will just be the beginning of the death that may occur.
Marty, I really like the Tao strategy.
My reality is that David Miscavige will go in with heavy armor and guns (in complete psychotic desperation) to attempt to suppress, nullify and discredit ANYONE who directly hinders or attacks the machine he has so artistically created to fill his coffers = IAS.
Debbie has done this.
Immediately she became an impinging enemy.
Therefore I also believe that he will do anything within his power to nullify her.
Helloi,
I’ve just recently “chimed in” on this blog (since Debbie’s email went out), though I’ve been following the post for 5 or 6 months. It was recommended to by a family member after putting her name on the Indie 500 list.
I was quite happy to have found this blog along with Steve’s website after having been off lines for several years. It’s a great group with a great purpose.That’s exactly what I was looking for the first time around. Imagine that.
Today’s accomplishments were such great example of a real team ( that I consider myself to be a part of already) You guys rock! I will also be sending my donation after pay day! My Doubt formula which has been floating around in my head for several years now is finally in action and that feels REAL good while I also continue writing up my Declaration. Looking forward to getting that out before this weekend.
For now , I have a couple of questions on this post subject.
Public/ staff must sign that glossy Registration/Enrollment Agreement form plus get a signature witness prior to routing onto courses. I’ve forgotten the official name of this four page “thingy”. (Maybe I’ve intentionally forgotten because it had a tendancy of leaving brand new pre-BSM public lying on the Public Div floor in a coma with MU’s if not simply “freaked out” by the CYA efforts of a “Church”. It’s an agreement to not take another Scientologist to court along with agreeing to handle all grievances using the Scientology Ethics Justice system …..as if.
1. Not that he would abide by it but Is DM the only person that is waived from signing this type of agreement or following policy on it?
2. Is this form actually used in defense by the church? Does it really stand up in court or is it just a scare tactic? Just curious.
Also, I was brand new on post in HCO when the GAT came out. In the mad rush of a new post, a billion telexes, compliance reports, MUs, M-7s on IGNW Bulletins, videos, etc staff were asked to sign a bond… or something to do with the release of the GAT.
One night, all staff were quickly briefed on an order by the LC that required our signature “right then”. All staff were gathered around a table and were quickly signing at the end of muster and running to course, etc. CRs had to go out with mailpack that nite!! I had so many MU’s. The only thing I really understood was if the LC wanted it done, everyone just did it. I had no clue what the heck was going on & asked someone in line to please explain what we were signing. I was told that I wasn’t supposed to talk about the GAT release before it was released because it was top secret or I would be heavily fined. I remember thinking to myself that I didn’t know what Standard Tech was, much less a GAT and I certainly wasn’t going to talk about it for fear of sounding like a total moron.
I know that I just signed it without understanding it. Does anyone else remember doing this? Could have been more than that? I suppose I still have attention on it because at no other time, prior to any other new release, was I ever asked to sign anything like it. And there have been TONS of new releases (ALL available in 743 languages! ) since then.
Final question: What exactly are these gag orders? Do they only apply to SO members who are signing up, routing out, or are they used as a negotiating tool when selling one’s soul to the devil? I’ve never heard of nor had experience with this at a Class IV org level.
My apologies if these questions have allready been answered or explained earlier. I was probably distracted by excellent music or something at the time 🙂 .
ootwhs — Go back one day to yesterday’s post. Click on the link to Marty’s Paypal — it’s in the body of the post — and it has his mailing address on that screen.
Nice quote. Thank you for that.
It’s funny how several people new to this blog are jumping up and discouraging legal action in Mrs. Cook’s defense, isn’t it?
It’s almost as if someone from the Church of Scientology were bringing in sock puppets to try to dissuade the Indys from helping Debbie Cook. Like maybe they were afraid of Debbie Cook might not be intimidated by the Church’s tactics if she knew that help was available from others who knew OSA’s playbook as well as anybody. Someone who had already taken the worst that OSA could come up with and kept standing.
And kept swinging back.
You know, I was done donating to the Indy’s cause, but this is looking more and more promising. Tell you what: if Debbie makes it known that she is willing to accept help from Marty and Mike, I’ll chip in. Sounds like Debbie has a story she can tell. I, for one, want to see it disseminated as far as it can be.
And I’ll encourage others to do the same.
Excellent work Random.
Thanks again for the informative reply.
Good advice for you Stephen.
Huh?
I just sent some money to the Debbie fund via Paypal!
Very classy Climbing, totally forgot this was the day in 1986. The day things changed forever and that little David Miscavige MFer did his Hitler/Stalin #. Come to think of it that’s when the RPF starting getting crazy too.
Yes, the major departure from
the ideal scene is the omitted production, the omitted establishment, the omitted growth since LRH’s departure these past 26 years as of today. All the while having the tremendous resources he left us with to continue on.
It’s what ISN’T there that should be! The incredible lost production. It doesn’t just happen. It’s been made to happen.
I’m lifting a foot to step up to next board on this 9 foot high board fence.
Does it sound like Stephen has an ARCX and wants Marty’s attention?
Marty,
Thank you for letting this stuff through. I have come to realise how valuable this blog is as a vehicle of education, not just for keeping informed but as a looking glass into the true world of Scientology in application. Real-life examples, in all their grubby finery, wander through here on an almost daily basis. So, thanks for the education!
I have sometimes become upset by accusations leveled at you and others, knowing what you and they, have gone through and what has been given.
But I think I am slowly getting it – You do not need defending-
‘Therefore the Sage embraces the Oneness of the Dao and becomes a guide for the whole world.
He does not focus on himself and so is brilliant.
He does not seek self-justification and so becomes his own evidence.
He does not make claims and hence is given the credit.
He does not compete with anyone, and hence no one in the world can compete with him.’- Lao Tzu- Tao Te Ching
‘The highest truth cannot be put into words. Therefore the greatest teacher has nothing to say. He simply gives himself in service, and never worries.’ Lao Tzu -Hua Hu Ching
I think I may speak for many here when I say, forgive us our desire to defend you, you are valuable!
(also, playing whack-a-troll does have its guilty pleasures!)
Possibly a dumbo question but has anyone actually been sued (successfully or not) for breaching one of these “agreements”?
Easy now. I can stretch to see this guy’s viewpoint – that DM is engaged in a game and responding in kind is perpetuating the game. He obviously has never been the recipient of legal attack and how frightening it is. Nor does he understand how relentless DM is and the financial resources DM has at his disposal, courtesy of Scn high rollers. Stephen’s solution is a very “head in the sand” solution and does nothing to handle unethical and criminal activities within the CofS.
REMINDER from SUNNYV:
Just a little note. I find calling David Miscavige the POB amusing and I know Scientologists love to use abbreviations but please make the effort to type out the name DAVID MISCAVIGE when you are posting about him – particularly when they are posts about his evil and abusive behavior. Google search results will be factored on the number of time a word appears on a page – by using POB all the time we are actually lowering the chances of someone finding some of Marty’s posts when they type in “David Miscavige”
This was a hard lesson learned a long time ago by a critic community. They liked to spell Scientology in creative, or funny ways, particular “$cientology” — but this had the effect of keeping them off search engines results for the actual word “Scientology”
I’m not saying stop calling the nasty little piece of shit whatever you want, but if you are posting about something specific to him just make sure to also spell out his name in full at least once in your post too. I just want to make sure Marty, and other truth sites, go to the top of google when you type in “David Miscavige” and believe me the day Marty’s blog is the first hit for his own name – you might hear the screaming all the way from INT.
After feeling sick thinking about the life he forced Annie to waste in that godawful prison and trying to hide her death, I was trying to come up with something useful anyone here could easily do that would help spread the word about what he did to Annie and continues to do to so many others… and the search result metrics seemed like a perfect little way to help spread the word a little further…
This was supposed to be a response to Stephen’s posts above.
Thanks
Yes, the Reblog button appears in a menu bar at the top of one’s browser, if one has (and is logged into) a WordPress.com account (free to enroll). Nice blog, Tara!
Stephan Dorff,
If you wanna “debate”, go to John Nunez’s site and “debate away”. The reference is to the same line he used recently.
There isn’t any “debate” with you, primarily because you have obviously eaten so many turnips that you’ve become one. It’s a function of the Know to Mystery scale, descending thereof, that in order to gain knowledge one eats the fucking thing. If you’d started out with say an apple, well then you’d be in better shape. Instead you chose turnips, rutabegas, swedes, and all manner of turnip by any other name be a turnip the same.
(My attempt at Dorffing. )
Got it, Martin. Thanks.
Hi Victoria. +1, and I think it’s refreshing that you ask those questions.
wh,
Right on!
May all beings be well and happy.
GMW
Well said Martin
My two cents….
As a former Sea Org member who served for many years at an Int level management org, I don’t think RTC was ever part of a systems of checks and balances. The reason is that RTC was always senior to everyone else, even WDC, even before Miscavige took over RTC in 1987. No one could every veto RTC. It was a sort of “when all else fails” or “the buck stops here” type of organization. In other words, if every other part of Int Management had failed (sort of like now), RTC could pick up the pieces and do whatever was necessary to get things going again. This is a hat that LRH wore several times after he sort of retired from management and went into seclusion, though he never truly retired. LRH even promoted himself to Admiral immediately before dropping the body (assuming that that Flag Order that Miscavige had cancelled was not a forgery). But the point is that the whole concept of an “RTC” only works when RTC itself is not corrupt and not unethical, and unfortunately that’s not the case. RTC IS corrupt and the ball game is over; no one’s left to pick up the pieces. Today, RTC is an organization built around one person – David MIscavige; a sort of “MMO – Miscavige Messenger Organization”. The top execs of Scientology are kept in a 24/7 prison environment and are forced to endure abusive living conditions. They are brainwashed cult members who are loyal slaves to Miscavige. What we’re seeing today is the gradual erosion of Corporate Scientology as a result of a failed Int Management, and a failed and very corrupt RTC.
Mark/ Thanks for some the sort of clarity
I see that explains a bit more / But of Course DM is protected at what ever cost /Never mind about those who suffer .or wants truthfully to hear You then question Truth / and being Honesty both would never ever really take place for fair justice and openess, adding to long trials and little or NO Justice. t
Thanks for that Martin. I guess my biggest button is knowing too much about the corrption of the judicial system in this country. Plus, I didn’t see if Debbie wanted our help. I think it is kind of Marty to organise that just in case. Gah, I wish Miscaviche would just slink under a rock where he belongs, save everyone a lot of grief:)
Yeah you’re right of course.
Captain Bob,
You are hitting on a point that does not fall to an easy explanation.
I escaped in 1989 after competing the early version of OT8. In addition, there are OT8’s who are prosperous despite the heavy ‘investment’.
Mr. Miscavige thought he had all of the answers when her ordered everyone back onto OT7 in the late 1980’s History has proven that all he really did was truncate the OT7 and the OT8 levels. He really had zero understanding of the original intent. In the end, it all falls to principles which Mr. Moth-cavige does not understand.
GMW
typo,
Mr. Miscavige thought he had all of the answers when HE ordered
Question Mike,
When I got a phone call, in Aug or Sept 2004, I sensed there was a bunch of OSA people sitting there with Elliot, during his threatening phone call to me/
I told him I better check with some lawyers, he said good idea. He sort of got interrupted by one of the OSA people, like someone put a piece of paper in front of him, and he nervously then told me that Ford Greene was NOT a good choice of a lawyer to check with!
What a laugh, it telegraphed to me exactly which lawyer I should have contacted, and Ford was the lawyer I recommended to Stefan Castle, when Stefan later called me!
Here’s the letter Elliot send me, and a copy of my gag, which Marty said was unenforceable:
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/elliotletter.htm
Mike, Could Debbie do like Stefan, and give the money BACK, and then she’d be out from under their agreement?
If anything, maybe a collection should be done to pay off whatever settlement she got, so she’s “free” of that damn agreement.
Dono to Debbie’s fund in mail today. Add SD to list of states.
Jethro — You are correct. Though the system, which you can find on SaveScientology site called for Church of Spiritual Technology to step in should RTC go off the rails. They have the ability to withdraw all rights to intellectual properties that RTC has been granted, rendering them legally powerless. The problem is that the “church” doesnt operate on “legal” rules. It is now the Church of Miscavige and there is nobody that dares second guess him. In fact, he knew full well the powers vested in CST which is why he had the President of CST, Russ Bellin, put in the Hole (and 7 of his direct juniors). They complied because their legal status afforded them no protection when the “leader of the church” accused them of committing “crimes”.
Not that I am aware of. But neither has anyone been successfully sued for libel — the last case was Time Magazine and that was ultimately lost, but not before Time Inc had spent at least $10 million defending themselves.
DM = DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE, DAVID MISCAVIGE. Just trying to catch up on using his name, although I thought Darth Midget was highly appropriate.
FFT: Lot of questions in one comment!
The Enrollment Agreements you speak of that everyone signs before taking services are currently at issue in 2 court cases. The church is attempting to enforce them to avoide returning prepayments. The hearings on these cases are in February. My opinion is that these are unenforcable for many reasons. Certainly when the court rules the outcome will be made known. For the record, these cases are being funded by Luis & Rocio Garcia and Bert Schippers and Lynne Hoverson — and if they can break the back of the church’s refusal to do as they promise and return money to dissatisfied people, everyone will benefit.
As for the Non-Disclosure Agreement you signed at the urging of the LRH Comm, your description of what happened is a good starting point for why it would be unenforcable. “Evereyone signs this now, whether you understand it or not, and without the opportunity to consult with legal counsel” makes it hardly worth the paper it is written on. The value of those agreements is in the mind of the person that signed them, not in their legal enforcability.
Chuck — Not a simple answer to this. Returning money doesnt automatically invalidate a contract once you accepted it. But I do agree with Marty about your “gag”. It’s only value was whether you believed it had value.
Thanks RE
I mean, to protect the copyright violations of a book you do not need the original author or lawyers to do the job. Spirits do not seem to be very interested in doing it either.
Mike,
These groups (CST, CSI….) may have been able to prevent a “miscavige, singular” type of take-over. But there is nothing in the bylaws (that I’m aware of) that could prevent a collaborative hijacking between these entities if the key individuals there-in were in cahoots with each other.
Corporate Scientology (if it lasts) will always be subject to risk and the human frailty of those running it. With the freedoms and “hands off approach” afforded Religion – they are, for the most part, going to have to be self policing.
Greed and power can corrupt and while there are certainly people who can rise above this- that datum, coupled with the autonomy given religion, make me question if a large Central Church is feasible or even in the best interest of Scientology.
“The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.” – John Adams
Don, I am with you 100%. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I believe that the only way to prevent that problem is by making the tech available in a free marketplace where practitioners and organizations live or die strictly by their results and how they treat their “customers”. Can you imagine how many people would stick around for the abuse in the RCS if they could go down the block and get real Scientology outside the vulture culture. Proably the biggest lie propping up Miscavige is that this is NOT possible as they hold the “legal threat” card and run intense PR campaigns to convince everyone in the church that anyone outside their control is a “squirrel.” It’s an artificial monopoly, though still a relatively effective one, but it is being eroded. People like Debbie Cook contribute to that erosion, as she is a well recognized “tech authority” saying there is squirreling in the church.
Mike since I used to be a lawyer before joining the Sea Org I have a few things to say. First of all on the gag orders or anyway the agreement that is signed up when leaving the Sea Org:
As you said above it’s the circumstances that such agreement is signed under that make the agreement null and void.
But the most important points I would like to make are the following:
Since we live in a justice system which as we all know will only look at certain things and it is very uncertain what it’s gonna say about what is right finally or not you cannot trust Man with Justice, as Ron said.
So given the circumstances I think a full defense on our part is ALL we need to keep doing here.
By defense I mean:
1) Financial and I want to thank all of the guys who sent money for the Debbie though I personally couldn’t at this time. But we are a team and this is happening.
2) In terms of cases against corporate Scientology. There are cases, many, too many I would say, that can be made against the church or data collected about those cases and filed with a Law Office concerning all the Violations (High Crimes for us) of our Religious Orders and Doctrines. All of those stories can be collected and kept in our archives.
3) Cases in terms of Common Penal Law Violations. I think this blog has revealed and keeps revealing a lot on those. All of those stories can be collected and kept in our archives.
4) Getting Law Offices to examine the rightness of our Case(s) as Independent Scientologists so that we have their testimonies and legal view on the matter.
5) PR points and Exposure of 2 and 3 as again this blog and Marty and all of the rest of us keep doing.
6) A Manifesto can be issued by the Indies wherein our views on why we are opposing corporate Scientology and why we act the way we act can be expressed, establishing a platform whereupon we can base any and all acts against any past or future violations of the principles of Scientology.
All of the above points are doable only when operating as a legal organization, a point which LRH knew well about (thus the existence of Dept. 20 of Existence on the Org Board and the fact that Legal falls under that Dept.). He had his hat down cold on this. So when an attack occurs against one person alone it is difficult to react fast unless such an entity exists.
Certainly we all contribute to a cause as we can but getting ready for defense against a legal system which is corrupt and serves those in power is a very important step.
Tom,
Great qoute!
Could not donate for the time being.I will be able soon to extend a little as a contribution to Ms Cook legal defense. I met Ms Cook at Flag and had great 2wc with her. She showed a lot of respect and ARC toward me and my Italian friends there. I want to thank Marty and all of those that are always actively looking and working for a brighter future for individuals, with a Scientology that is NOT what we are seeing now. Thank you !
And as I reread my comment a question came to my mind.. how is it the Legal falls under Existence and Existence finally has something to do with Legal, hehe. I guess LRH knew that on this planet unless you have Legal you have no Existence and there is no Existence without Legal? God… what a planet!!!!
Mike, when I routed out from the Int base on March 12, 2004 I was coerced to sign every kind of document stating I would never mention anything about what I saw or experienced at the Int base. The entire transaction was videoed and conducted by a flinching greasy lawyer who appeared to be sweating gear oil — in other words, someone who looked like he got hooked by the deep end of a roto-rooter snake and pulled up out of a clogged drainpipe. (Who was that guy?) With every action, he said, “So you are signing this of your own free will and you have no problem with the Church?” kind of questions. It was a very oppressive encounter. The lawyer seemed to know it was wrong, but was (I assume) doing it for the money. This kind of coercion is bullshit on every level — a scare tactic designed to silence whistle blowers. The right thing to do is to speak out loud and clear. Steve
Mike,
So true! ” standard tech is not possible outside of church walls” is the key held down seven that holds a monopoly in place.
While there are certainly advantages to having a group, quality control, administrative support etc these may be outweighed by the potential liabilities associated with a central control organization.
A “free market system” that you describe could have within it some bad apples but at least the subject is shielded from a large central control organisation that has the capability of “spoiling the whole barrel”.
Those groups that deliver results would survive and those that didn’t would fade away. A structure like this would in essence be a type of checks and balance system.
Right you are Steve. Thanks for chiming in. They certainly havent dissuaded you from speaking out! 🙂
Sharp as a tack.
Please forgive the off-topic here but I just found below the interesting analogue (in my view) to Scientology – the last paragraph especially. (from http://www.chirobase.org/03Edu/C/homola.html)
“Chiropractic, which celebrated its centennial in 1995, is a curious mixture of science and pseudoscience, sense and nonsense. Much of it is based on the theory that misaligned spinal bones produce nerve interference that causes disease. Many chiropractors claim that correcting these misalignments (“subluxations”) can restore health and that regular spinal adjustments are essential to maintain it.
Neither logic nor scientific evidence supports such a belief. Although spinal manipulation can relieve certain types of back pain, neck pain, and other musculoskeletal symptoms, there is no scientific evidence that it can restore or maintain health. As a result of expressing my opinion on this subject, I have been called a chiropractic heretic.
The chiropractic profession has little tolerance for dissension. Its nonsense remains unchallenged by its leaders and has not been denounced in its journals. In fact, many chiropractic journals continue to publish articles that attempt to justify subluxation theory. Although progress has been made, the profession still has one foot lightly planted in science and the other firmly rooted in cultism. Without appropriate criticism, the good in chiropractic will never be sifted out, and competent chiropractors will not receive the recognition they deserve.”
disinfected
ps I see my chiro on a weekly basis 🙂
FOS and Marty, FYI: this is a good way to get the search engines to ignore this blog. They consider this to be spanning and actually hurts search engine ranking rather than helping. I don’t advise it.
Mike, I certainly think there is a place for a central organization of Scientology but what, IMO, must be done away with is the control that such an organization would have over groups and individual practioners. Exerting more and more control over anyone that would dare to practice Scientology is a hallmark of David Miscavige’s reign.
Personally, I think just one function of the central organization that could remain is as the standard bearer of technical application, and groups and individuals would pay for training and certification by something like Flag provided that such is not mandatory to practice Scientology.
disinfected
That’s “spamming” not “spanning”. Typing challenged today…
+ A1!
Greta
Querido(a) amigo(a),
Te estoy escribiendo este e-mail como amigo y compañero cienciólogo. Así como iniciamos un nuevo año, se espera que en el 2012 pueda ser un gran año para la diseminación y un año para un verdadero progreso hacia arriba en El Puente (los servicios que la cienciología ofrece) para todos los cienciólogos.
Aunque no estoy en la Organización del Mar actualmente, serví en la Organización del Mar en la Organización Avanzada de Flag por 29 años, 17 de esos años estuve como la Capitana de la Organización de Servicios de Flag. Soy un auditor entrenado y un Supervisor de Caso, así como soy graduada del Curso Ejecutivo de Flag para Ejecutivos y completación del Curso de la Serie de Evaluación de Datos.
Estoy completamente dedicada a la tecnología de Dianética y Cienciología y los trabajos de L.R.H. Personalmente he visto algunos de los más increíbles milagros, resultados de la aplicación de la tecnología de L.R.H. y Yo absolutamente sé que vale la pena luchar para mantenerla pura e inalterada.
Mi esposo y yo estamos en buena posición y no estamos conectados con ninguna persona que no esté en buena posición con la Iglesia. Nosotros hemos definitivamente rehusado el hablar en cualquier medio ifnormativo, a pesar de los muchos que nos han contactado.
Pero tengo algunas preocupaciones muy serias respecto a violaciones a la política “Mantener a la Cienciología Funcionando” (KSW) las cuales veo están siendo permitidas en la religión de la cienciología.
Tengo el más alto respeto para los miles de dedicados cienciólogos y miembros de la Organización del Mar. Juntos, hemos salido adelante atraves de cualquier cosa que el mundo nos ha echado encima y hemos realmente penetrado en el mundo alrededor nuestro. Estoy orgullosa de nuestros logros y sé que tú también. Sin embargo no cabe la menor duda que ésta era de contínua “recaudación de fondos” no es de nuestros más finos o mejores momentos.
LRH dice en la Carta de Política de la Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard del 9 de enero de 1951 en Un Ensayo sobre la Dirección, ” No dejes caer ningún velo (o cortina) entre la organización y el público acerca de nada”. – LRH
Basada en esta política, estoy comunicándote sobre algunas situaciones sobre las cuales tenemos que hacer algo dentro de nuestra religión, dentro de nuestro grupo.
Acciones que no están cubiertas en nuestra política o que directamente violan políticas y tecnología de LRH las que incluye:
* Registración en extremo y actividades fuertes de recaudación de fondos las cuales se han convertido en parte de casi cada miembro de la Organización del Mar y las organizaciones Clase V, así como de cada “Comité OT” no están cubiertas en ningún lado en la política de LRH.
* Los miembros sumamente productivos de la Organización del Mar y miembros del staff dedicados en las organizaciones alrededor del mundo, no han escogido el realizar estas acciones. Incluyendo a los OTs.
Estoy segura que ellos estarían más felicies si puedieran continuar con la diseminación directa de Cienciología así como lo han hecho por muchos años.
Pero la verdad es que esto está siendo dirigido desde los niveles más altos dentro de la estructura de Cienciología y claramente hay una gran presión para hacer que los objetivos sean establecidos.
* La IAS: La IAS fue creada sin el conocimiento o participación de LRH en 1984 por Marc yager y David Miscavige.
Esta se suponía debía estar basada en las políticas de LRH sobre el tema de las membresías y la HASI (Asociación Hubbard de Cienciólogos Internacional), sin embargo la IAS no tiene que ver en ninguna forma con el sistema de membresías estalecidos por LRH de las cuales solo existían dos tipos de membresías y está descrito en pleno en la HCOPL (Carta de Política de la Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard) del 22 de marzo de 1965 titulada ” La Promoción actual y un programa descriptivo de las Organizaciones, Recorrido sobre las Membresías” y declara:
” Existen dos tipos de membresías…” – LRH
LRH enlista ahí la MEMBRESÍA ANUAL INTERNACIONAL y le da un costo de 10 libras esterlinas o de 30 dólares americanos. El también declara el precio de la MEMBRESÍA VITALICIA la cual es de 75 dólares americanos. No hay otras membresías o estatus aprobados o del conocimiento por LRH.
* Luego entonces, el dinero de membresías se supone debería ir directamente a la Organización donde la membresía fue registrada, y el dinero usado para la diseminación de esa organización en su área. Esto está descrito en la HCOPL (Carta de Política de la Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard) del 1º de septiembre de 1965R (revisada) Políticas sobre Membresías.
” Todo va hacia la cuenta de libros de la HCO (Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard) en el área donde la membresía fue ingresada y no forma parte del ingreso global semanal de la organización. El dinero de Membresías va hacia diseminación”. – LRH”
* Actualmente el dinero de membresías está siendo retenido en las reservas Internacionales las cuales han crecido excediendo el billón de dólares.
Solo una pequeña fracción ha sido alguna vez gastado, violando la política anterior.
Unicamente los intereses generados de dichas inversiones han sido usado muy esporádicamente para fondear proyectos por medio de la Administración.
De hecho mucha de las actividades que observas de los eventos de la IAS no están siendo fondeados por la IAS, en su lugar por Cienciólgos (feligreses) involucrados.
* Reflexiona sobre esto, ¿cuántos anuncios de diseminación de Cienciología, Dianética o de cualquier otro programa afiliado a la Cienciología has visto en la Televisión o has escuchado de estos en la radio?, ¿cuántos has visto en los periódicos?, Yo no he visto uno solo en 4 años y he vivido en San Antonio Texas, la séptima ciudad más grande en los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica. ¿Cuántos has visto?
* Donar algo más allá que la membresía vitalicia a la IAS no está basada en la política de LRH.
El artículo “Lo que compran tus donaciones” (sacado de El Auditor, el cual es el periódico Mensual de la Cienciología No. 51 de 1970) está hablando claramente sobre cómo la Iglesia usa tus donaciones para los servicios de Dianética y Cienciología.
* La próxima vez que se te pida donar fuera de lo que fuese un servicio, date cuenta que te estás involucrando en el concepto de recaudación de fondos y pide ver algún escrito de L. Ronald Hubbard donde muestre que esto es lo que se espera de tí como cienciólogo.
Los Nuevos Edificios de las Organizaciones (Organizaciones Ideales):
* LRH tampoco dirigió la compra de edificios opulentos o de lujosas renovaciones o lujosas acomodaciones para cada organización.
De hecho, si lees la Carta de Política de la Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard, del 12 de marzo de 1975 Emisión II, “La Organización Ideal”, el cual es el nombre que este programa ha sido nombrado, y en ningún lugar encontrarás edificios de 20 millones de dólares o incluso ninguna referencia sobre acomodaciones lujosas como premisas de la organización en lo absoluto, como parte de la descripción que LRH da sobre la “Organización Ideal”.
En lugar de esto, una Organización Ideal era una que entregaba y hacía que la gente subiera por “El Puente” – lo cual no es parte de este programa de “Organizaciones Ideales”.
LRH dice en su Política que una Organización Ideal: “Estaría limpia y atractiva lo suficiente como para no repeler a su público” – LRH. Esto es todo lo que dice acerca del estado o apariencia del edificio.
* Como resultado de esta alteración fuera de política sobre la Organización Ideal, tenemos a la gran mayoría de los OTs, ahora asignados como “Embajadores OT” y duramente enganchados en actividades de recaudación de fondos que incluyen “bingo”, “cenas con propósitos de despojos financieros”, “clases de tejido”, y muchas otras actividades escrictamente alrededor del tema de la recaudación de fondos para los tan requeridos múltiplos de millones de dólares para fundar su “Organización Ideal”.
Como parte de esto, la gente alrededor de cada organización está siendo requerida de donar dinero para su “Organización Ideal”, en lugar de sus propios servicios o de su propio Puente. LRH menciona en la HCO PL Etica de la Organización y Tecnología:
“DESHAZTE DE LAS DISTRACCIONES DE CIENCIOLOGÍA en tu propia organización. Servicios de niñera o tickets para rifas y ese tipo de tonterías.”
* Aún así estas distracciones crecen sin freno alguno ya que son usadas como recaudadoras de fondos y obtener dinero para las enormes cuotas que están siendo establecidas para fondear la “Organización Ideal”.
” Si la organización se estanca… no te enganches en “recaudaciones de fondos” o “vendiendo postales” o prestar dinero. Simplemente haz más ingreso con Cienciología.
Esto es una señal de una administración muy pobre que busca soluciones extraordinarias para financiarse fuera de Cienciología. Siempre ha fallado.”
“Cada vez que incluso Yo mismo me vi involucrado en otras formas de solucionar financieramente o personalmente en lugar de usar Cienciología he perdido. Así que puedo decirte desde la experiencia que la solvencia recae en más Cienciología, mas no en bisuterías no patentadas o barbacoas para recaudación de fondos” HCO PL 24 de febrero de 1964, Emisión II, Programación de la Organización, (OEC Volúmen 7, página 930)
El punto es que que los cienciólogos y los OT’s necesitan ser entrenados, auditar y diseminar a público nuevo en grandes cantidades- no en registrarse unos a otros o sostener acciones de recaudaciones de fondos internas.
Tecnología Fuera:
” En los últimos años vimos literalmente cientos y cientos de personas quienes fueron validados como Clears usando el Recorrido de Certeza de Aclarado (CCRD) tal cual fue desarrollado por LRH y ahora se les ha dicho que no alcanzaron el estado de Clear.
Esto incluye cientos de OTs quienes fueron puestos entonces en NED (Nueva Era de Dianética) como un “manejo”. LRH claramente prohibe cualquier tipo de Dianética que sea recorrida en OTs en el Boletín de la Oficina de Comunicaciones Hubbard “Dianética prohibida para los OTs”.
Esto es Tecnología Fuera (Out Tech).
Este “manejo” por completo fue dirijido personalmente por el Chariman Of the Board del Religious Technology Center y fue realizado en miles de OTs. (COB=David Miscavige)
Pero no está basado en ningún boletín de la HCO escrito por LRH, en lugar de esto en una simple y única instrucción de C/S (Supervisor de Caso) donde LRH C/Sed a un pre-OT quien no había alcanzado previamente el estado de clear pero estaba a la mitad del OTIII y no lo estaba logrando.
LRH dirigió el manejo de auditación en solo de ese pre-OT para que él por si mismo alcanzara el estado de Clear.
Esta acción de C/S por LRH fue tomada fuera de contexto y usada para implementar un manejo técnico el cual fue una directa violación de la HCOB descrita anteriormente y escrita por LRH.
* Este y otros “manejos técnicos” hechos en auditores para SOLO NOTs generaron grandes desembolsos y dificultades en los auditores de SOLO NOTs alrededor de todo el mundo ya que les fue exigido el hacer estos manejos para continuar en el nivel.
* Luego tenemos que existe “Grados apresurados en Flag” que ninguna otra Organización tiene.
¿Cómo puede ser que Flag haya estado entregando grados de una forma diferente que el resto del mundo por los últimos 3 años?
Cualquiera que el problema sea, el hecho de tener “Grados apresurados” en Flag crea una línea oculta de datos y es un ALTO CRÍMEN y es el tema de una carta de política entera titulada “DEGRADACIONES TÉCNICAS” la cual LRH colocó al inicio de cada curso de Scientology.
* Más aún recientemente el comportamiento o la actitud parece ser que todos necesitan re-hacer el Recorrido de Purificación y hacer un programa largo de Objetivos”, incluyendo muchos OTs en medio de Solo NOTs.
* No hay nada malo con el hecho de hacer objetivos, pero es una clara violación del HCOB ” Mezclando Recorridos y Reparaciones” el tener a una persona en medio de un recorrido o nivel OT y que le sea sacado y puesto en un programa de objetivos.
*Los auditores de Solo NOTs también les están exigiendo hacer sus objetivos por un auditor Clase IX a un gran costo y no está permitido que se co-auditen.
* Flag ha hecho muchos millones de dólares con los manejos con tecnología incorrecta (o out tech tecnología fuera) por que:
OTs en medio de Solo NOTs están siendo forzados a tener estas acciones fuera de técnica para poder regresar y permanecer en el nivel para completarlo. Sin mencionar los efectos espirituales que produce la tecnología fuera y esto está siendo hecho en cada OT.
* Yo misma fui sujeto de estos “manejos” con tecnología fuera, incluyendo un extensivo FPRD (Recorrido del Propósito Falso) a mitad del Solo NOTs. Creó su daño en diversas formas, incluyendo situaciones físicas con las cuales todavía estoy lideando hoy día. Así que tengo algo de realidad sobre el daño causado.
Estructura Administrativa de LRH
* LRH nos dejó una compleja y balanceada estructura administrativa, con nuestras organizaciones lidereadas por la Oficina del Director Ejecutivo Internacional.
Esta oficina fue considerada tan importante que LRH creó un grupo administrativo especial denominado Comité de Vigilancia (Watch Dog Comittee) cuyo único propósito era ver que esta oficina y las otras capas o estratos de la admininistración existieran.
* Directiva Ejecutiva de LRH 339R habla de esto extensivamente como la protección para nuestra Iglesia.
Pero esta gente ya no está.
Y no solo algunos.
Tan solo algunos años atrás no había un solo miembro en la oficina del ED Int en puesto, sin mencionar los altos Ejecutivos que conformaban la estructura de la Administración Internacional Administrativa.
También te habrás preguntado…. ¿Dónde está Heber, el Presidente de la Iglesia?
Qué pasó con Ray Mitthoff, el cual era el Senior C/S Internacional, el cual fue al único que LRH le confió los niveles superiores de OT?
¿Qué pasó con Norman Starkey, el que tenía el puesto de confianza de LRH?
¿Qué le pasó a Guillaume – Director Ejecutivo Internacional?
Y Marc Yeager, el Presidente de WDC (Watch Dog Commitee) ?
¿Qué fue de los otros Ejecutivos Internacionales de la Administración los cuales habías visto en los eventos todos estos años?
LA VERDAD
La verdad es que Yo pasé semanas trabajando en el vacío edificio de la Administración Internacional.
Vacío por que cada uno había sido removido de su puesto.
Cuando por primera vez ascendí a las líneas altas ejecutivas fui briefeada (instruída) por David Miscavige acerca de cómo todos ellos eran malos y cómo es que ellos habían hecho tantas cosas (malas) que todos fueron desacreditados.
Esto parecía “explicar” el hecho de que por completo WDC (Watch Dog Committee) dejó de existir.
El estrato Ejecutivo superior completo, el cual consistía del Director Ejecutivo Internacional y otros 11 altos ejecutivos internacionales altamente profesionales en sus campos especializados, ya no existían.Incluyendo la Organización Internacional de Mensajeros del Comodoro dejó de existir.
Todas estas estructuras administrativas claves de Scientology Internacional, puestos ahí por LRH, fueron removidos.
* Hubo cientos y cientos de cartas sin responder y peticiones de ayuda de miembros del staff de las organizaciones, escritas basadas en la LRH ED 339R donde LRH dice que el staff puede escribir a esos altos ejecutivos en el Estrato Ejecutivo Superior para solicitar ayuda.
* Pero esto no es posible si todos esos ejecutivos han sido removidos y ninguno está ahi para ayudarles o para obtener evaluaciones y programas hechos para la expansión de Scientology.
* Bueno, después que pude tener algún tiempo de calidad platicando con Heber, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, así como la estructura completa de la Administración Internacional en ese tiempo, quienes habían sido puestos fuera de puesto con programas extensos y duros de ética.
* Esto ha estado pasando por años y el único resultado es que ellos siguen fuera de puesto. No existe ninguna retractación por parte de estos altos ejecutivos quienes gradualmente han ido desapareciendo de la escena. Ya no los ves en los grandes eventos o en los eventos del Viaje Inaugural del Barco.
* David Miscavige se ha convertido ahora en el “líder” de la religión de Scientology.
* Incluso lo que LRH dejó detrás como una robusta estructura para administrar propiamente todos los aspectos de la religión de Scientology.
* El puso una completa y brillante estructura organizacional ahí, no a un solo individuo.
* Nunca debió haber existido en primer lugar un “líder” que no sea otro que LRH mismo como la fuente principal para nuestro grupo.
* Existe una situación aquí y aunque no hayas estado nunca en la base de la Administración Internacional debes ser capaz de observar el sobre-registro y los frecuentes cambios en la tecnología los cuales NO ESTÁN BIEN y tienes la responsabilidad de hacer algo para Mantener la Cienciología Funcionando.
* Debes ser capaz de encontrar y leer las referencias sobre las membresías en el volúmen 6 del OEC. Encuentralas y lee la HCO PL titulada “La Organización Ideal” (Series de Datos no. 40).
* Encuentra y lee las referencias sobre los edificios de las organizaciones, incluyendo la HCO PL del 24 de agosto de 1965 II, Limpieza de los Edificios y del Staff, Mejora nuestra Imagen, también la HCO PL 17 de junio de 1969, La Imagen de la Organización.
Si tú no quieres hacer olas o ponerte en peligro de ser puesto fuera del nivel o ser negada tu eligibilidad, hay algunas cosas muy simples que puedes hacer:
Encuentra y sobretodo
* Retira tu apoyo de cualquier acción que esté fuera de política.
* Deja de hacer cualquier otra cosa que tus servicios y tu progreso por El Puente.
* Simplemente demanda ver una referencia donde LRH diga que te es requerido hacer semejantes donaciones.
Nadie va a ser capaz de producir dichas referencias pues no existe ninguna.
* Deja de apoyar cualquiera de las actividades que están siendo empujadas y que se encuentran fuera de política sobre la recaudación de fondos de tu área.
LRH establece lo que se espera de un Cienciólogo:
– Que es lo que él espera que hagas. De hecho el adiciona en la HCOB del 10 de junio de 1960 emisión I, de la serie Mantener la Cienciología Funcionando serie no. 33, LO QUE ESPERAMOS DE UN CIENCIOLOGO. Leela y síguela.
* La otra cosa que puedes hacer es enviar esto a tantos como puedas, incluso anónimamente.
* Porfavor mantén el contenido de este e-mail entre nosotros, los Cienciólogos. La prensa no tiene cabida en esto.
Te imaginarás por qué no he escrito ningún reporte de conocimiento y seguido simplemente con mi negocio.
La respuesta es, lo he hecho. Pero ya no hay nadie a quien enviar un reporte de conocimiento.
* Pero tu puedes y deberías escribir reportes atrayendo la atención de los ejecutivos locales de tu organización y de los miembros locales de la Sea Org hacia las acciones fuera de política.
* Somos un grupo fuerte y poderoso que podemos crear un efecto. Hemos sobrellevado varias tormentas. Siento mucho que sea yo quien te diga esto, pero una nueva tormenta está en camino. Sus ondas ya están en la prensa y en el mundo alrededor nuestro.
La verdad es que como cienciólogo eres más hábil, más perceptivo y con una mayor integridad. Se supone que scientology está hecha para hacerte “pensar por tí mismo” y nunca comprometer tu propia integridad. Y con certeza LRH mantiene a cada cienciólogo responsable de MANTENER LA CIENCIOLOGIA FUNCIONANDO.
No estoy tratando de hacer otra cosa que crear un efecto que cambie de forma seria las acciones fuera de política que están ocurriendo. Mi esposo y yo estamos la mayor parte del tiempo con nuestra familia y muchos muy muy buenos amigos quienes son Cienciólogos.
No tuve el interés realmente de sacar mi cuello o hacerme notar de esta forma. Sin embargo, también sé que dediqué mi vida entera como adulto a apoyar a LRH y la aplicación de la tecnología de LRH y si alguna vez tuviera que ver a LRH a los ojos no sería capaz de decir que hice todo lo que pude para Mantener la Cienciología Funcionando si no hice algo como lo que ahora estoy haciendo.
Todos tenemos parte en esto. Es simplemente imposible leer las referencias de LRH y no ver las alteraciones y violaciones que están tomando lugar.
Tienes una muy simple obligación hacia LRH. No participes en nada que esté fuera de política, y tampoco dejes que otros lo hagan de igual forma.
Si cada persona que lee este email simplemente se hace a unretracta de hacer acciones fuera de política, habremos cambiado la dirección.
Si tomamos toda la energía y la dirigimos hacia la auditación, entrenamiento y diseminación de público nuevo, habremos ganado. Y es lo que deseo para ti y para nosotros que navegamos en este nuevo año.
ARC,
Debbie Cook
Traducido del e-mail directo por Rafael Gómez.
The above is a full translation of Debbie’s email for the benefit of people still trapped in Mexico City. Is seems that the Mexican Scientology field is aware of what David Miscavige is doing in mexico, down to details of who in the government he’s trying to $$influence$$ to obtain tax free status! Good luck David Miscavige. Mexico will never become your playing ground!
Kudos to Rafael gomez for his actions in exposing the criminility of David Miscavige in Mexico.
AC
Thanks!!
Something we can learn from:
Originally published as part of
Berzin, Alexander. Buddhism and Its Impact on Asia.
Asian Monographs, no. 8.
Cairo: Cairo University, Center for Asian Studies, June 1996.
“The Manner in Which Buddhism Spread
The expansion of Buddhism throughout most of Asia was peaceful and occurred in several ways. Shakyamuni Buddha set the precedent. Being primarily a teacher, he traveled to nearby kingdoms to share his insights with those who were receptive and interested. Likewise, he instructed his monks to go forth in the world and expound his teachings. He did not ask others to denounce and give up their own religion and convert to a new one, for he was not seeking to establish his own religion. He was merely trying to help others overcome the unhappiness and suffering that they were creating for themselves because of their lack of understanding. Later generations of followers were inspired by Buddha’s example and shared with others his methods that they found useful in their lives. This is how what is now called “Buddhism” spread far and wide.
(…) Sometimes the process evolved organically. For example, when Buddhist merchants visited and settled in different lands, some members of the local populations naturally developed interest in these foreigners’ beliefs, as with the introduction of Islam to Indonesia and Malaysia. Such a process occurred with Buddhism in the oasis states along the Silk Route in Central Asia during the two centuries before and after the common era. As local rulers and their people learned more about this Indian religion, they invited monks from the merchants’ native regions as advisors or teachers and, in this manner, eventually adopted the Buddhist faith. Another organic method was through the slow cultural assimilation of a conquering people, such as the Greeks into the Buddhist society of Gandhara in present-day central Pakistan during the centuries following the second century BCE.
(…)If Shakyamuni Buddha told people not to follow his teachings out of blind faith, but to examine them carefully themselves before accepting them, how much less so should people accept Buddha’s teachings out of coercion from zealous missionaries or royal decree. Thus, for instance, when Toyin Neiji in the early sixteenth century CE tried to bribe Eastern Mongol nomads into following Buddhism by offering them livestock for each verse they memorized, people complained to the highest authorities. In the end, this overbearing teacher was punished and exiled.”
A side note on relinquishing the civil right of the courts, in David Miscavige’s new edition of the ethics book he has a note (yes a “note”, at the bottom of a page) wherein he states that a Scientologist CANNOT sue another Scientologist, which includes a Church.
There is nothing in writing in any LRH policy that says that. It’s not in an list of Offenses and Penalties, no HCO Policy, nuttin.
It is a complete arbitrary.
While doing the training step C, of A-E, I was presented with this waiver mentioned above, the waiving of the right to sue. It contradicts LRH policy, in particular a specific High Crime that covers this.
” Bringing civil suit against any Scientology organization or Scientologist, including the nonpayment of bills or failure to refund, without first calling the
matter to the attention of the International Justice Chief and receiving a reply.”
Apparently David Miscavige seeks to get around this one by simply not replying. I got around that by sending the report to the RTC Reports Officer website where I got an ACK. Too bad, so sad, Dave.
disinfected,
As detailed on savescientology.com, the system LRH intended was never put in place. It was usurped by David Miscavige albeit with help and an attempt at covering it up with lip-service (perfunctory Board Minutes, names of posted persons with no real functioning, failure to meet the qualifications of posts and an assortment of fakeries).
In LRH ED 54 Int, Superior Service Image, the field as an independent activity is well covered, as is the “central org” and ONE of its roles in terms of technical integrity.
What has happened is that technical integrity is severly compromised by blatant alter-is (especially at the NED for OTs level) and a perversion of the materials to a point of Reversed Scientology.
CST has the right to buy back the marks from RTC for $100. What they do with them is covered in the Articles and Bylaws (savescientology.com) and they COULD with complete sanction by the Trust Instruments of L. Ron Hubbard, do whatever they considered best to propagate and see that it is applied the subject of Scientology.
That power would include obviating the monopoly and its abuses that LRH predicted way back when.
LRH was the last person I know to hold on to something that patently did not work. A Serfascistic monopoly does not work.
How this 3D forms up, what its policy is, how it survives is completely up to the 3D. THAT LRH states unequivocably.
What?
sthtexlensman@aol.com
My computer is pretty top notch, but not only did the donate button not work, also the link cleared my log in and donation amount re; the link Marty posted on the previous post for donation about Debbie.
In case that noise happened to you;
sthtexlensman@aol.com
So, just sayin’ if you want to donate, just log in all normal like on paypal, click send money and paste the above address in, easy peasy.
Add another US state … regardless… I’d truly like to help Debbie in any way I can. Even if she is not wanting it right now, I can’t see how it would make her feel worse seeing a line up of fifty or more states chipping in.
Considering what she was up against last time I was at Flag, I remember her as a master juggler, with ARC, mentioning that because it is first hand from me.
That aside… in a bigger picture I admire her dedication. She knows how hard she has worked…I just want her to know I appreciate it.
Hell take the donation and send her kite sailing in Jamaica…if nothing else it would sure make me happy to see her not get dragged through the damned court system!
Anyway Debbie. Thank-you:)
I can’t believe this question has not been asked.
How much money did we collect so far? Marty, you said full transparency.
inb4OSA
Viva México!
Yup… same old same old.
‘New’ poster blurts out some contrary generality without so much as an introduction and then pulls the victim card when immediately busted making sure to suck up to anyone who agrees with them.
I like the tag team tactic where a new sock-puppet posts something and then gets consistently validated by another sock-puppet. That one is amusing.
Great indication that we’re making progress.
Keep ’em coming OSA! – we do like to stay informed about what it is you don’t want us to do.
In a comment above, Jethro Bodine mentions that last comm that LRH left for us, promoting himself to Admiral and Pat and Annie to Loyal Officers.
Has it ever been substantiated one way or another if that comm was indeed a forgery by Pat?
I know Miscavige claimed it was – but that’s why I’m asking.
Perhaps Marty will write about this in his book.
I just thought of something on this topic of the current structure of the CofS versus what could be, what should be.
Function monitors structure. The current structure is NOT the function.
The structure laid out by LRH in the Trust Instruments is a closer approach to the function. Those documents state clearly that the FUNCTION of Scientology is SENIOR TO ANY STRUCTURE.
The field is putting in the function. Should a person, say John Nunez, consider the functions of say HCO and Qual, then he’ll easily (IF he’s acting as cause) see how those can be placed in a structure. He’ll form the structure as in this case, the hard won KRC is that the FUNCTIONS of the org board are vital in producing the product.
NO structure is senior to function. That includes the structure of ANY Church.
Mike…. you said “prepayments” were at issue in these cases. Just to clarify, are these the same as unused monies paid for services? I ask because at one point, while slow to return, the church was returning money put on account, but never debited for a service. In fact, policy says these “repayments” are to be returned if requested, not for services taken and the money used from the account however. I got confused because you mentioned “dissatisfied people” and that implied if they were unhappy with a service, but that had to be a request for money returned I believe within 30 days of completion…. there was policy stating such in the Refund/Repayment PL.
I am interested in how to advise someone who recently asked about requesting unused “advanced payments” made but never used at a couple of upper level orgs. Based on what you revealed here, is it worth going after, or does your info show they are outright refusing to give “repayments”, even thought it is per policy to do so? Thanks for clarifying and I’ll surely pass along what your advice might be.
Sam, from what I can gather, your opinons and actions are always welcome news :)). Speak and don’t hold back, Firewitch!
Alex
Mickey — Yes, I used prepayments as its more understandable to the readers of this blog who are not familiar with what a “repayment” is as opposed to a “refund.” What is at issue here are repayments. And yes, the church has decided they will delay, obfuscate then finally come up with a “reason” not to give a repayment (like “you didn’t do the full CVB routing form”)… The reason I said “dissatisfied” is that the language that was used with the IRS was:
“It has been a long-standing policy of the Church that if someone is dissatisfied with their Scientology services and asks to have their contributions returned within a three month period, these amounts will be returned. Likewise, if the person asks for return of contributions for which no services were received (i.e. an advance payment), there is no three month limitation period. Anyone newly enrolling in services at a Church of Scientology is informed of the policies and signs an agreement to abide by them. As a further condition of receiving a refund or repayment, the person understands that they may not again receive services from the Church.
And then there is the 1966 PL (revised in 1991 to add the CVB) which has a quote to be prominently displayed in every reg office and on every rate card:
DONATIONS PROMPTLY REFUNDED TO ANY DISSATIS¬FIED STUDENT OR PRECLEAR IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE POLICIES OF THE CLAIMS VERIFICATION BOARD, IF THE PRECLEAR OR STUDENT IS DISSATISFIED AND DEMANDS IT WITHIN THREE MONTHS AFTER THE TRAINING OR PROCESSING, THE ONLY CONDITION BEING THAT HE MAY NOT AGAIN BE PROCESSED OR TRAINED.
Whoever it is should be documenting their actions every step of the way in their attempts to get the church to live up to their promises. Many are now sending the documentation of their efforts to get their money back to government agencies (including the IRS) demonstrating the refusal to do what they promise.
Thanks Mike… that makes it so clear. My how things like getting your own money back, as even verified by the IRS agreement they are legally obligated to, have changed (and probably not coincidentally) ever since you and Marty and the Indie movement began to impinge.
“The people who post here are strong enough to decide what is best for them and what they feel is right.” Exactly, Stephen or John Nunez or whoever you are…… We can also feel the 1.1 feeling behind your words. We know too well that creepy sensation we get when a person’s intention is different than what he’s saying or writing.
Thanks for this Mike.
And good to know regarding the cases with the Enrollment Agreements and repayments. I’m sure we’ll all be briefed on the outcome in February.
If only 1/10th the amount of effort, speed of particle flow and drooling that occurs while “raking in” HUGE prepayments or donations by the church was directed into DELIVERING a VALUABLE FINAL PRODUCT and returning monies otherwise, I do believe if one listened very closely, he/she might actually witness the sound of a slight, yet somewhat irregular heartbeat coming from the CoS.
What you anti’s don’t get (and one reason why you are such epic fails when it comes to getting anything constructive done) is that there is a great deal of confidence among Indies. We’ve been through this drill before and (nothwithstanding natter board natter predictions to the contrary) I accounted for everything when appropriate in similar past cycles. I never said “full transparency”, and wouldn’t because I don’t let the oppressive see my cards.
Fish Fly,
You’ve hit the nail on the head: if the group was to just go to the original postulates, the original purpose of delivering Scientology, then the lies would begin to blow off. That’s what the independent application of Scientology is – the actual postulates and intentions.
The lie persists and so Debbie Cook is to be overwhelmed into submission.
Dear Alex,
Thank you very much for your words, indeed Mexican soil wont ever be a religious domain for Slappy.
http://www.asesor.xscientology.com
P.S. Thank you for the ack on the work doing on Mexico city, you will be surprised this year.
I actually have the same question as the last poster (“First Principle”) regarding Pat and Annie Broeker and that whole business about LRH appointing them to the status of Loyal Officers.
Marty or Mike, do either one of you know if that appointment was real or not?
Marty and Mike,
Allow me to give you both a full acknowledgement as towards yours and our’s goals and purposes.
You both represent and embody those qualities that Ron promulgated.
You are good people.
As has been said, “Carry on.”
Never-the-less and by the way, Shorty is a sociopath.
Dear Sam, only one word:
¡VIVA! ; )
http://www.dianetica.mx (will give you the spanish email on pdf)
http://www.asesor.xscientology.com (my blog)
http://www.xscientology.com (the main center who gave me the blog and is giving free blogs to x-scientologists)
P.S. VIVA Again : )
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but God Damn! Just how stupid are these fools?
Do they actually think these tactics are going to work? Or are they cowards who are just following orders, knowing that the person who came up with this lame idea is nuttier than a fruitcake?
(See what I did there? Answered my own question!)
Dear Dissinfected,
I am not sure if your name is apropos. You seem infected with a lot of blarney. With over 30 years experience I tell you that Chiropractic has as much validity as medicine. You are simply misinformed and throwing many false statements out to this blog without knowing what the F&^% you are talking about. Before you throw more, get informed fully. No, not everything in Chiro land is perfect. Far from it. Your analogy is way off. Chiropractic has tons of bickering and descent within the ranks. We don’t all agree on everything. Empirically, Chiropractic is a wonderful healing art that helps many people live better lives. I, for one, have made a miraculous improvement in my life as a result of chiropractic and that is what prompted me to want to study to be one. Since my first adjustment, I have not had to see a medical doctor for any illness. I take no medications. I have never used my health insurance. Not once. I have treated between 10 and 20 thousand patients and I can say it is a wonderful tool to assist many individuals to live better lives. Who cares if the status quo doesn’t get it. Most have never tried it. Many people sayScn or Dianetics doesn’t work but it has helped me immensely too. Those that condemn really don’t understand it nor have they had it applied properly. If it is so bad, as you say, why do you keep using it weekly???
disinfect – not sure why this is interesting. This article is from the following:
Your Skeptical Guide to Chiropractic History, Theories, and Practices
Operated by Stephen Barrett, MD, and Samuel Homola, DC .
“Dr. Barrett, a former psychiatrist, has lost the last 3 lawsuits by licensed Chiropractors on his published bs opinions. I personally know many chiropractors and they have no issue with dissension. What they don’t like are false reports, lies, and bull shit. This is why 6 chiropractors won the lawsuit against the AMA and its continued spreading of false data. Barrett is just the latest in this line.
The last 5 peer reviewed studies I read were all by NON chiropractors and they all were proof of what the chiropractor was doing. Research in this field is done by neurologists, physical therapist and licensed MD’s. The facts about the human body are still facts no matter what the degree.
To compare to what goes on here – the statements of Barrett regarding chiropractic are about as valid as the statements of Minerva about specific independent Scientologists.
I trust you are bright and aware as you see your chiro but you should know who is behind the article you referenced. No personal upset on my part and I know you travel this journey with us.
Doctor, you make my point for me. Thank you.
disinfected
SA, I knew that quote would not find broad agreement here but it touches on a few points of interest to me and that is why I found it interesting.
Personally, I “suffer” from a musculoskeletal problem that rendered me unfit for military service back in the day. I was told by a “specialist” that I could look forward to a future of pain and surgery. I rejected that and hooked up with my first chiro (this was only shortly before I became involved with Scientology). Over 30 years later, my symptoms are minimal. So I believe in chiropractic care. But for musculoskeletal problems. And I would guess that those five peer-reviewed studies would agree with me.
One point of interest is that I have found some chiros to be willing to adopt any bit of quackery that comes down the pike. So “Its nonsense remains unchallenged by its leaders and has not been denounced in its journals” resonated with me. And I think there are clear analogues in Scientology although I do not expect many here to agree.
The idea of having “one foot lightly planted in science and the other firmly rooted in cultism” is also one that stuck a chord and, to me, explains much of both the attraction of Scientology as a philosophy and the danger of it as a group activity. The below is something I wrote when I used to fight the good fight on Wikipedia…
“While Hubbard may have, at some point, had the intention that Scientology be an attempt to expand the limited definition of reason and science beyond the merely measurable, it has, for better or worse, become something else altogether. Early on in the history of Scientology, Hubbard “gave” it freely to the world and, at that point, Scientology might have been described as a protoscience. Later, it seems, he reconsidered that “gift” and, in one of Scientology’s most important Policy Letters, Keeping Scientology Working, he claimed that contributions from others had been of no real value, had in fact been almost uniformily destructive, and that Scientology would not entertain contributions by anyone other than himself. With that stroke, Scientology moved from protoscience to dogma. Hubbard believed that it was more important that the “workable path” that he had developed remain unaltered than that Scientology be developed further by a community. History will perhaps prove him right or wrong in that but that viewpoint does not detract from the value of what he created.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Justanother&oldid=135815409
So I found the quote interesting as it a starting point for discussion. Because “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” and I, for one, am not interested in a new boss that is the same as the old boss.
disinfected
disinfected
I understand your viewpoint. I believe what you failed to recognize is that their is no central leadership of chiropractic. It is very rooted in science. You are taking into consideration things individual chiropractors do, which may or may not be part of chiropractic. There is no fixed dogma per se and therefore you see a variety of “tools” and “treatments” in use. I would say only a very small view are any form of quackery.
Muscle stim is in wide use today and was developed by a chiropractor and when he developed this he was called a quack by the organized AMA, and also by many fellow chiropractors. There is more to it than mere musculo-skeletal. Stress manifests on the body and its parts in many ways and for many reasons. This stress could be mental/case, it could be physical (trauma, nerve interference from bone out of place), or it could be chemical (lack of proper nutrition or inclusions of toxins from chemicals/metals.) Anything the chiropractor is licensed to do, within their scope of practice in their state or physical location, is allowed. It could be that only part of what they do is the original chiropractic technique of adjustment of bones to remove nerve interference, which then allows the manifestation of health in the body. Original chiropractic from the late 1800’s recognized that the body had an inborn innate intelligence controlling the body via the brain and nervous system. Removing any interference in this control system allow the innate life force to carry out its purpose as a self healing and self regulating mechanism. There is NO quackery in that.
Chiropractic is based on a vitalism view of mankind. Allopathic medicine is a mest only view with no life. I would rather my chiropractor be willing to try things which may appear new or weird to me but work. I know, having personally been treated by the person, that one of the first to bring accupuncture into the US and fight in the courts to be able to use it was a chiropractor. At that time accupuncture was considered quackery by organized medicine.
I do remember the past. I just didn’t like you finding a very biased source material for your reference. I know many personal friends who are chiropractors and have seen chiropractors for most of my entire life. They are fully licensed primary care physicians but in their toolbox there are not drugs and surgery.
If you are close to any chiropractic graduate school then I suggest you go into their library and read the journals of that field. Those practioners operating on the fringes of acceptance by the majority are denounced and challenged in many cases.
The field of chiropractic, in my opinion, is much like the Independent Scientologists. Other than the training and licensing requirements how the individual practioner uses their training and applies the tech is varied. I don’t believe that we, as independents, or they, as licensed DC’s, need or want some centralized governing body that only gives freedom of application in exchange for some bought and paid for “permission slip.”
Does this answer any questions for you, or create new questions?
Rodger, i do not see the importance of what translation is used ( unless it is copyrighted ) as any of us read or talk in the original lenguage to compare with.
Es lamentable desacreditar a una persona tan valiosa como el señor David Miscavige de Cienciología. Él ha venido trabajando arduamente para mantener a Cienciología en fuente en las últimas décadas, ha traido expansión sin precedentes al único tema que en verdad va a mejorar a la sociedad. Sólo se puede decir de él que es una persona realmente decente. Lamento haber estado de acuerdo con lo que publicó Debbbie Cook y haber dicho que el señor Miscavige era una persona supresiva. Deveras estaba equivocado, lo siento mucho. Me gustaría que otras personas no se dejen engañar en la red. Si existe alguien realmente bien intencionado y cuya ética no se discute es el señor David Miscavige. Firma Jorge Rodríguez – Bogotá.