Please participate in this survey by posting your response in a comment. List the question number followed by the answer letter and any clarification/verification you would like to provide.
1. What degree of proof do you have of the existence of previous lifetime identities of your own?
a) Knowingness by virtue of memories or perceptions, validated and acknowledged, or not, only by e-meters and auditors.
b) Verified historically recorded events and/or locations out of session, after the fact of recalling (having had no previous education or information about them).
c) Demonstrated to another person by location of physical evidence of past life recalls.
2. If you have witnessed as a C/S or auditor the return of a Scientologist in a new body after death, which of the following applies:
a) We located his or her old folders and carried on with no glitches precisely where he or she left off from the previous lifetime.
b) The person identified unique (could not have been suggested by an old acquaintance of the deceased) evidence of the deceased identity’s life.
c) We determined that the past life identity was suggested to the preclear by others, or there was no evidence (unique information provided by preclear that he or she could not have been briefed on by another).
3. What happens to thetans between lifetimes on this planet?
a) Reports to implant stations for forgetting treatment, then gets dumped back on earth. (If so,where are the implant stations located)?
b) Exteriorizes, cruises around for a while (or not), then enters another body?
c) Other.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
1. A
2. Not Applicable (i am not a C/S)
3. B
1. A
2. NA
3. B
1. a. Without a doubt recall = 100 degree proof for me 🙂
2. n/a
3. b.
1. a
2. b
3. b — if OT 5 or above, else 3a (probably Mars)
1. A
2. N/A
3. B
In addition, sometimes you just know. I knew deep down before I ever got involved in Scientology as a kid that I had lived before. No one had to tell me. I believed it as much as someone who believes that when they die, they go to heaven. I just knew. Not scientific, but I have no doubts. Call it faith if you will. I had it validated in session on the meter, many times.
1. A – At the time. No longer certain these were perceptions of past lives or I just wanted to believe they were.
2. Didn’t experience this as an auditor.
3. C – Isn’t that the 64,000 dollar question?
1. A -Certainy gained by virture of auditing
2. N/A -Not a C/S or know one well enough to take this up with them
3. A -They are a distance from earth but not a great distance and given my experience I highly recommend B
A. Demonstrated in session by recall and then subsequent wins. No need for validation as I had knowingness of my own.
B. Not Applicable.
C. Other. No idea other than verbal date passed around at orgs and tapes by LRh talking about between lives implants. I did recall in session shooting into a body or choosing one.
The questions seem to indicate a disproving of past lives or disagreement?
And I might add regarding three- simply decide that you are under no obligation to “report” to anyone and then don’t.
1A
As a young child, 3? I knew I didn’t used to be a girl and was able to tie a tie, like I used to, though I don’t believe I had ever seen anyone tie one.
Much later, all grown up, getting auditing, I realized my serious dislike of my Mother had nothing to do with the wonderful woman who had given birth to and raised me and we finally had a close relationship.
2 (not a C/S)
3 Couldn’t say.
1 . – B there are historical records of what i remember .
3. – A or B . It depends on the level of TRs the being has , If he really has his TRs in at a high enough level it would be B , but if he does not have TRs in enough then it would be A .
a) Yes, but I have to add the following: I once believed they were my past lives, now I am more a believer that they were just incidents, part of the past of all of us, some mine, some others. Either way, they can blow charge.
b) No
c) My belief, or maybe hope, is that we, according to our amount of spiritual strength, move to the next life in better condition than our last. That at least is a goal. Some may reincarnate, some may just float around as viewpoints, some may….
Why are you asking this? What were you researching?
1. -A – known as being evident since very young. Life cannot die. Life and death are two opposites.
2.-B – not applicable.
3. -A – the moon.
1. B
2. N/A
3. C
Answer to the survey:
1a) the best knowingness of memories and perceptions experienced by myself and seen on many others occurred during NED auditing; rememberings and re-experience of past live incidents were real and run through with certainty.
b) Never seen the need to verify it historically.
c) No need to do so.
2a) Once had a pc that expressed returning and being a past life Scientologist. She expressed it with certainty and good recall. Did not followed up the result of searching her past folders to verify her data.
b) Done with some certainty.
c) No
Other) per my experience as an auditor the strongest reality on past life and past identities was achieved in NED auditing; once the charged area or incident disappeared the pc had no need to prove his-her past identity; we can conclude he – she was more in PT and in no need to prove the past experience.
Silvia Llorens
1. A
2. No Data
3.B
1 A
2 N/A
3 Other, I think. No personal recall in regards to this.
1) A
2) N/A
3) Different every time. Sometimes A, sometimes B. It depends upon the mental state of the individual.
1. A
2. N/A
3. B
1) None of the above. You need to read “Doctrine and Covenants” which is downloadable from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints website (I’m a Mormon)
2) Not Applicable
3) You’ve got the cycle wrong. It goes like this:
A) Pre-existence – a place where we live with Heavenly Father until a body is ready for us
B) Life on Earth
C) The afterlife, which is divided depending upon how you used your mortal life, and THE CHOICES YOU MAKE AFTER DEATH.
The above is a vastly simplified explanation. This does not mean that non-believers are doomed to Hell, there isn’t one. There is a place which is cut off from God, to which those who commit certain exceptionally serious crimes are exiled, but that only covers 1 in maybe a billion people.
Yes, I know this isn’t what Marty asked for, but it is the explanation that I believe in for how we recognize people we’ve never met before, and I thought I’d toss it in.
Wayne
1. A and B.
2. No, but Tamia Arbuckle once told me after coming back from Flag for an event that Phoebe had showed up there in a little kid’s body.
3. C
1, B
2. N/A
3. B, but doesn’t always get another body. There are other places/realms than place.
By the way, there was a guy named Robert A. Monroe who did a lot of research on exteriorization phenomena and had a lot to say about between lives experiences. There is a foundation in No. Carolina, I believe, that carries on his work. Googling his name will get you to his site.
1. A
2. N/A
3. C
1. None, which is a large reason for my current searching the internet for answers, because despite being in Scn since birth, 16 years in the S.O. and even 2 years on the RPF (were I auditied at least 800-1000 wdah) I have never had a glimpse of a past life. At this time, I am somewhat convinced I am either a hard case or a brand new thetan. However, in the RPF I had several different twins and I was the review auditor for a few months and each and every PC I did FPRD on, seemed convinced they were recalling past life incidents when going earlier/similar.
2. N/A
3. Don’t know for sure, but I was always taught ‘a’.
1 B
2 N/A
3 A does happen, moon lately
1. a
2. n/a
3. b
1)
a) By memory recalls in and out of session, validated with e-meter.
b) No
c) No
2)
a) No
b) I identified a friend who had died a couple of years before who was the newborn baby of a couple friends of mine. I told them who he was. The couple verified it on the meter with him several years later that their son was in fact the old friend.
c) No
3)
a) The one that I recall and know is in Mars.
b) I have exteriorized several time into space and found their “feeder line beings” trying to pull you into their processing facilities.
c) I had communicated with “deceased” family members, while exterior, and they also reported to me to just coming back from the “training center” on Mars.
1. B
2. B
3. A (no idea of location) and B
1: A/B
I’ve had some definite past lives come up in auditing that I am certain of.
After clearing up some upsets and overts in my last lifetime, afterwards when I returned to an area I lived I remembered the area.
Not really “proof” except to me though.
I did not hear of Dianetics until I was 20. After I joined staff in my early 20’s my dad told me my grandfather was “into Scientology” and had been to St Hill. I found his old folders at my org. I believe he was my friend.
Past lives come up in auditing as earlier similar incidents and otherwise that when handled with auditing have brought about tremendous case gain for me. That’s proof enough for me.
2: N/A
3: I don’t know if I can answer this one. To me it seems to be blank or total unconsciousness from which I will suddenly awaken and become interested in something. This lifetime I clearly recall awakening exterior from above and perceiving someone rolling a ball to a baby and trying to get it rolled back. I became the baby and rolled it back.
The answer could be A, B or C. I actually believe all three could be accurate. it depends on the thetan and other factors I guess.
1. B
2.B
3.B
Before Scientology or any knowledge of Scientology
even the the word Scientology.
On the way to Lake Tahoe to go skiing I went shopping for a couple of shirts at Montgomery Wards store.Got the shirts and waited in a long que to cashier.When I got face to face wth the cashier,a beautiful blue eye blonde girl I froze as she did also. After what seemed minutes people started yelling ” get on with it or get a room and I paid for the shirts very shook up the cashier shaken also and left the store. It was not until years later on Life Repair I discovered that this was my past life wife and proof to me that LRH was a straight deal and Dianetics the real Deal. Im OT 3 and OT 7 EP
Everything the true grit that comes from RON. I am a World Class Explorer
seen on Discovery Channel International , award winning engineer, but everyone on thier own turf needs to discover this for themself.
AMEN
I don’t want to clog up the blog, but i wanted to add:
I have had incidents in other languages where the words recalled were then found in a dictionary for that language. Languages I do not speak and I didnt know the words.
Also, I had one where I was in a war and came up with a name of a small country I wasnt even aware of or that they had fought in the war. They wore unique looking helmets. I drew the shape of the helmet and later found pictures of the war and the type of soldier that wore the helmet. It all fit with what was found in session and was proof to me, although I wasnt looking to prove anything.
1) A, as well as knowingness from the time I was about 4 or 5
2) B
3) All of the above. I think it truly depends upon the ability and condition of the thetan when he/she drops the body.
1. Lots of a. One instance of b.
2. N/A, but had 2 separate instances, witnessed, of being approached by persons who had dropped the body and needed or wanted some assistance.
3. b, but cruise might be a little to casual.
Would it be differently worded if it were not motivated by some disapproval or disagreement?
A)B)B) BC)B whats the reason for this ?
All three are B) and anything else is typo sorry
on the question 2 my answer was not applicable; the B is a mistake; sorry. And by the way welcome to your new place Marty and Mosey.
1) A 2) B 3) C, i.e A or B depending on the state the being left the last life in.
1:B, 2:B, 3:A (Somewhere ‘out and away from here’ but not far..)
I’d really like to know what the purpose of this survey is ..
1. A, with the addition of a handled chronic debilitating this life-time “auto-immune” physical condition due to the discovery of the exact whole track incident that blew it.
2. N/A
3. Don’t know. so … C would apply
I kind of had that reaction at first too. I think there was a little charge on it from elsewhere. I don’t get any “disapproval or disagreement” in your post. If there is it doesnt bother me.
1. A.
2. B. I witnessed an auditor at AO, her name was Sylvia and she showed me her little girls drawing. Her little girl was about 4 or 5. The drawing was a volcano and it had bunch of stick figures on it representing people. The auditor told me that her little girl had said she was a past life Scientologist. Not conclusive but interesting.
3. B.
Hi Wayne. Thanks for that. I’m curious, do you only live one lifetime in a body according to your beliefs?
1. A and B. Looked up historical events after the fact of recalling them in session. Could not otherwise have known of them. On a number of occasions became furious at the way history misrepresented events and twisted the facts.
2. B.
3. B because a great deal of what happens now is restimulation of past implants.
I forgot to add on 1. That I am a past life Clear and was auditied by LRH last lifetime. I was in the Navy with him and he audited me on a ship and in the pacific Northwest after the war. I was also near him when he was in a hospital while he was recooperating. This lifetime I joined the Navy and while my ship was in the Pacific Nortwest I saw a person selling Dianetics books and asked him what it was. Something struck my interest about it and I started that day the comm course. I have recall about how LRH was acting at the hospital which I won’t go into here. I was so indoctrinated at Flag to not talk about my case that this was kind of burried. Probably not conclusive, but interesting at least to me.
While on Solo Nots I was given the “not CLear” r-factor and then recieved three intensives of NED (after 5 intensives of sec checks) and re-attested to Clear. I guess the squirrels thought they could do a better job.
Regarding #2, we tried to locate past life folders but because we were a measly mission, the upper orgs blew us off or decided we should just pass the person over to them so they could sell them auditing.
1. I was a staunch atheist when I started doing Scientology. My first ever auditing sesh was with Book One and after about 45 minutes I had returned to a past death. Scared the b
Interesting, can only guess what you have in mind. My answers,
1. a
2. n/a
3. b
1.A
2.N/A
3.B
My mother-in-law recently dropped her body after a long illness and I communicated with her many times and guided her in finding another body which wasn’t easy and took some days. I even had to find and visit a maternity ward nearby.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we lived before and will live again.
Also regarding #2, I had an idea who one of my kids was previously and she spoke French first (nobody spoke it around her) and asked for her brother from her previous life by name for a long time until I finally found out where he was and told her this and that he was doing fine…
1: Α, 2: N/A ,3: A (Moon, Mars, the Pyrennes)… I guess I have to move on to OT 5, soon! Hahaha…
Let us know on the survey Marty and what you are coming up with!
Ooh, one more. Theres a lot from auditing, but these fall into the area of possible “proof” for me.
I was twinning at Flag with a lady who was finishing up OT levels so she could go into the SO. We were drilling and I started doing something that i didnt realize was actually from an incident on the whole track (an uncharged one) . She stopped and asked me what I was doing. I thought about it and recalled what it was and what the incident was and who i was etc. She confirmed she had a very similar incident and had been in the same group which I think we both already knew instinctively.
It was just another one of those “moments” that while not iron clad proof, are still very interesting to me.
I really appreciate this survey.
The responses have been extremely enlightening.
I haven’t done enough auditing to get any meaningful insight into whether I have lived before or not.
But past lives have never seemed real to me.
I always had the feeling that I was a new Being, a first timer.
But I usually got invalidated on that, if I said anything, so I did not know what to do or say or think.
After reading the replies to the survey, I am now all but certain that anything is possible. (Which I had begun to think so, for a while now.)
Besides Scientology, I read as many other subjects of comparable magnitude (as per logic 8) as possible and there is one book, a channeled book, called Oahspe that gives a lot of data on what goes on, on the other dimensions or levels of existence ( different levels of heavens) and it is a must read for everyone. It has a lot of data on what beings are on different levels and what they do there. We are creatures in a very sophisticated terarrium being managed by other very busy beings. There are several different editions of free ebooks on line. It is one of those books that cause you to never be the same or see the world the same after you read it. It is a book of amazing knowledge. It answers almost every question that man has ever asked, other than the main subjects scn covers in regards to clearing.
I should have said she was also finishing up OT levels. We were drilling on another course she was doing in between auditing .
Tony, when I was on staff we had a kid come in, I think he was like 12.
He came in and started reading the Volumes in the courseroom. I guess they didnt know what to do with him or something.
He wore blue uniform type clothes sort of like SO and was cutting school for a week or so and coming in every day until his parents found out and banned him. They were Mormon.
It was very interesting. I worked in Div 4 and we were looking in the window at him studying and i said “that kid is in the SO”.
This is an area where Church members have an enforced viewpoint. You can’t invalidate and you can’t talk about and you have to believe and you are a looser if you cant recall, etc. I much prefer the freedom here. It’s real to you or it’s bunk, or you have doubts, or certainty- it’s all welcome here, by me anyway.
The way Miscaviges “Church” has handled past life clears for example should be criminal.
1) A & B
2) n/a
3) B or maybe C
1. A – I dredged up a past life incident during a somewhat informal session that caused me to drop way way down the tone scale when I encountered it. This is the only past-life incident I’ve ever run that seemed real if only by virtue of the profound sadness I felt at the time. Nothing I’ve ever run during NED has ever seemed remotely real to me (I’m not clear).
2 N/A
3 No reality
Regardless of the purpose of this survey I think it’s a great idea to have an open and honest discussion about this subject. That’s a refreshing change from the stifling “corporate” environment.
1. A. I’m compelled to answer here that in 1985 or 6 I was diagnosed with MS. Long story, very short, is it was handled through auditing/past life contact. 2. Not personally. 3. B. Used to be A, but I read in a tape transcript that these were pretty much not used anymore.
1. A & B
2. N/A
3. No idea. Probably the volcanos and other black hole locations on planet Earth that have been noted for their unusual electrical fields.
Very, very interesting.
For Scientology to be really a science, it needs to use scientific methods: large scale studies, sharing the results, etc.
For example since several years, meditation is evaluated by scientific studies, with astonishing results: increase of gray matter density in the brain, improvement of the immune system, telomere length increase, etc.
I consider the subject of past lives as important, as I really want to know what will be my fate on the day my body stops working.
One of my purposes in Scientology was to gain certainties about past lives, but it did not work. On the grades and NED I was running past lives on a conceptual level, without any perception. Moreover I was running only celebrities, maybe just because I had read books about them. Eventually it seems I was running incidents from books and films.
Eventually I decided to believe in past lives, not from my own experience in Scientology, but from several accounts of past lives so well documented that they practically demonstrate the fact.
For example the history of Shanti Devi, validated by a commission set up by the Mahatma Gandhi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanti_Devi
Also the works of the psychiatrist Ian Stevenson, who interviewed 3,000 children talking about past-life memories. They start talking about past-life memories at the age of two to four, and would stop by the age of eight. Some children had a birthmark or birth defect the same shape as wounds on the body of the deceased person whose life was purportedly being recalled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
Now the question remains: what happens in the between lives area?
1. A
2. I’m not experienced in this category.
3. I have no real certainty here.
Marty, are you collecting data for book # 3?
1. a. Knew as a kid: exterorized often put lines out to far-distant locations, dreamt/recalled in a foreign language. Audited Clear past life by Ron while in the Navy. Love everyting nautical! Clear invalidated several times by CoS & but validated by you! Thanks to you-doing great!!!
2. N/A
3. Definately dumped on earth-some lifetime ago. Not OT 3 yet, but assume things you & I discussed (that I wrote up out of session, after being awoke by these perceptions) were in this realm. But, am heeding your advice to not go there-yet.
Well done on your move! And, hug one another for me. L, M
1. A
3. A. I Don’t know where.
What is the goal of this survey ?
1, b. Knowing something I never saw in a history book, going to the books and checking it, it is there. Won’t say what.
Also, reading something in a book, having a somatic from it, looking at the past scene and seeing the rest of the sequence of events.
3. Other—get bombed in a war-torn country (civilian) make a beeline outa there and get as far away as possible but also staying away from involved allies, end up in a city halfway between. Spot a friendly terminal, choose to be that one’s new baby. Forget everything. LOL
1.a
2. N/a
I did audit one young lady on Book One Dianetics who gave very vivid recall of a past life incident in her first session. Recalling it, reducing and blowing the incident gave her a great deal of relief.
3.a. but no personal reality on where
b. a hoped for reality as I continue on the bridge
As a child I had a very strong interest in stories of past lives. I hoped for recall of past lives for myself. Past lives was the button that started me on my path in Scn. Doing OT preps, had a very strong detailed recall of particularly horrible incident. i was horrified that i would do something like that and even after running the incident to EP could not accept that i had done something like that. Now i know why and on OT 5 I am more able to distinguish difference between my recalls and those of others, thankfully!
Linda
C, N/A (you kinds of haz to be a scientologisto for that, don’t you?), C (well, B as a subset of C.)
I’ve had some wild and wonderful experiences while in Scientology and since which I can’t fully explain as everyday physical universe phenomena – during my own auditing, while auditing others, while observing others having “unusual experiences,” and in regular, everyday and not-so-everyday life. However, I don’t hold any strong opinions about whether those experiences were evidence of past lives vs. recollections of “the Jungian collective unconscious” vs. other models of existence and experience posited by scientists, religionists, spiritualists, whateverists, e.g., parallel and alternate universes, string theory, ghosts, etc. And for the record, I don’t think that hypnotism or self-hypnotism were involved in any of those experiences I’m recalling right now.
Given the above, my best answers are:
1) A, B, C (all three)
2) B
3) I choose D (other): I’ve seen enough unusual things to admit I don’t know for sure – in fact, I don’t even assume there’s any single thing that happens. I can also see it’s possible we each live just one life in a physical body. There are so many other options possible as well, in and out of bodies. I don’t see how certainty on this subject is possible, so I no longer worry about it. I’m willing to just try and figure it out when I get there. 🙂
An afterthought on question 3, especially “this planet”, and I preface again, I’m not OT 3 but I think once on this planet you are stuck without the tech to get out of the trap. Which I’ll soon find out. However, on other planets, now that’s a different discussion….
L, M
1. a) and b), by date and location and what was happening there at the time, historically significant battlefield.
2. n/a
3. b) and to my first wife who, while she was dying of cancer was instructed by me as to what to do, returned in the body, as yet unborn, of one of her great grandchildren. Communicated via “dreams” to mother and grandmother (my daughter), asking permission to return to family and asking for forgiveness for past actions and has since been described as “knowing” by a third person, who said she knew who everyone was previously. I am the only Scientologist among these persons.
Me, too, Mark. Had many restims as a child.
“At this time, I am somewhat convinced I am either a hard case or a brand new thetan.”
Charles: not necessarily one (hard case) or two (brand new theta). Could be other explanations.
For example — the Dalai Lama who according to Tibetan Buddhism is the 14th incarnation of the “same being”. He has said that HE doesn’t remember his past lives (as the Dalai Lama). And yet — when put to the test as a young toddler, to determine IF he was the reincarnate Dalai Lama was able to pick up 100% of the time the objects that were his.
I recommend “Kundun” (the life of the Dalai Lama) — which you can order from Netflix as a great story and might offer a different perspective for you.
The whole mystique of past lives is quite difficult to REALLY unravel because most everyone wants a FUTURE – either in heaven or in another body/lifetime.
The idea that when THIS is over, it’s over is pretty awful. (but if I were a betting person, I would bet we DO live again). That said — past lives can be a real trap.
Why? Let’s say that someone is pretty much a failure THIS lifetime but remembers times when he/she was some great person – a leader – etc —
that can mollify his/her feelings about this life. AND feeling that there will be ANOTHER life time can make a person LAZY in this lifetime.
Honestly — the only way to live ones life is right here, right now. It’s not much different than that person at a high school reunion who is now in his 60’s recounting what a great football player he was (but his life is in ruin now) or great cheerleader she was. Or what a great SO member he/she was (but his/er life is in ruin or at best mediocre now).
Seriously — past lives and future lives are overrated. 🙂
What are you doing now?
Love,
Christine
On 3. b. I would like to add – normal beings if not sunk in to their bank.
As for DM probably he would not even make it to the implant station – he doesn’t need it – he never came out of the last one he was in. He will be like Ron says – a rock at best. I shd find that ref I suppose.
Cece
1. A
2. N/A
3. Don’t know.
1. A, B & C (actually always had absolute certainty on past lives)
A occurred w/such incrediable detailed clarity w/full perceptions on M1 Wordclearing
B occurred on NED, where I ran into a battle and location I’d never heard of. I then did some library history research and there it all was.
C occurred long before I’d ever heard about Scn.
2. N/A
3. B (except exterior isn’t a location, is it??)
1. a. I was a staunch atheist when I started doing Scientology. My first ever auditing sesh was with Book One and after about 45 minutes I had returned to a past death. Scared the bejesus out of me. Wherever that and my other “past life memories” come from (whether they are real or imaginary) the mind is clearly presenting data in a format we can use for therapeutic purposes. It’s value is really all that matters, imho.
2. n/a
3. b. (for the most part)
1. A
2. n/a
3. C
Welcome Wayne! I served a mission for the LDS church in Japan, and I graduated from BYU. I am also dating an active Mormon. So, I do have an affinity for Mormons. In Japan, a common saying is “there are many roads to the top of Mount Fuji”. May I suggest that human experience is much broader than you may have been lead to believe? Just because others have a completely different reality than your own does not make them wrong. But certainly it must mean something if you feel drawn to Marty’s blog. Feel free to explore all you want.
Tara, the standard Mormon doctrine is “one lifetime in a body”. Do all Mormons really believe that? I don’t.
I have not witnessed the second question but i myself went up the bridge to OT VI in scientology in my last lifetime and because of that i think scientology is the best thing ever .
That’s interesting Chris. I have, over the years, come across similar stories from many quarters (e.g. 10-12 year old kid walks into an org and wants his office back or some such thing). This had always been secondhand and I never met anyone who actually met “The Kid”. It became a kind of Scn Urban Legend.
As Scn continued down the time track and made more and more OTs, I would expect more and more of these types of occurrences. Why not properly investigate them and document them as case studies?
If Scn technology is capable of rehabilitating a being such that he retains identity and knowledge – AND you had objective proof – I would disseminate that information far and wide.
The SO’s motto – We Come Back, was always interesting to me. But I have to ask – Well? Do they? If so, where’s the beef?
Yes Midge. Thanks.
1) A
2) Neither
3) a, b and c. Not sure of locations but I am sure they have a certain (entrapment) appeal.
Three actually goes to the main reason I got into Scientology to figure out and become cause over, as well as why I read various other writings prior to, from Timothy Leary, Be Here Now, to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Thanks to Misterskinflap, I’ve been well stopped along that path.
1a. I remember the first book 1 auditing session I have had this LT: I immediately sprinted down the track — and I was 11 years old, at the time! Since then, I have has thousands of hours of auditing and I have always run PL without any problems. On some incidents, some material proof I’m sure coulld be found; still, I don’t see the need of that. LRH says: “What is true is true for you.”
2. I have audited a bit and I’ve supervised co-audits; I’m aware of the procedure to look for folders of the PL identity a pc originates. I also have seen this procedure being disregarded and the person invalidated for Executive C/S’ing reasons.
3. a or b can both happen — it depends on the individual thetan and his KRC of the anatomy of traps. One thing I am quite certain of is that one does not necessarily have to be on the OT band to avoid implant stations. I even had a bit of a “ghostbusting” adventure while on my 7D FPRD Form!
It’s in the Blue Ridge mountains in VA: http://www.monroeinstitute.org/
1. No certainty on identities per se. Definitely affinity for various cultures for example Tibetan and can easily pronounce and remember complicated Tibetan chants and names. Thus, I’m inclined to believe I spent time there, having never before 7 years ago studied buddhism.
2. N/A
3. Not sure. Am pretty convinced that LRH’s story about between lives was part of his experience. Others might have experienced it too BUT I don’t believe it’s everyones experience. The Tibetan “story” is the bardo but it’s very adapted to Tibetans … in other words would an American SEE a diety with 12 arms? Doubtful. We might however SEE someone who in our lives was the epitome of evil … and another who is the embodiment of kindness. I feel it’s important to remain open to possibilities. The more rigid we are the less likely we are to make progress.
One very real experience was when my father died. My youngest sister was 8 at the time. She completely originated that she felt my father near her. I told her to acknowledge him and say goodbye and that it was OK for him to go. He did. She never mentioned that again and has not been “stuck” in his death.
1.A & B
2. A & B : one instance of a pc remembering his former identity, and pc’s folders found back in UK
3. A & B & C…
For 3 : various reports from PCs, but mainly A and B
Note : a vast majority of experiences were unverifiable, but the results of auditing those incidents are evident : chronical diseases or physical troubles disappearing, abilities gained, etc…
I love stuff like that. That reminded me of a lesser, but similar experience I had. I was really keyed out on a Grade, I forget which one and then I got a real bad cold. Tom did the PTS auditing handling(I forget what exactly it’s called) and it went into a past life thing which totally blew the cold. I had never had that happen before like that.
I think the whole past life thing is proven in auditing. Maybe not to a die hard sceptic, but for someone willing to look.
1. A Hundreds of examples in auditing and CSing of self and others since 1970, validated by knowingness, meter phenomena, dramatization of the past identity in the PC’s face and body while re-experiencing the past identity, and miraculous results.
2. B
3. B and C I personally believe that identity is real, but that we also participate in an “ocean of being” that we share with all life, and that between bodies, beings often do a sort of retreat into the undifferentiated mass of the life force, until the stimulation of long-held purposes motivates one to once again seek “Shelter from the Storm” in order to pursue those purposes. Hence, WE COME BACK.
’Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood
When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud
I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form
“Come in,” she said, “I’ll give ya – shelter from the storm
– Bob Dylan
1. A -After getting involved with Scientology, and having great successes with contact assists, I remembered applying this tech when I was 3 or 4 years old. Also, I mentioned to an auditor that the Dianetics auditing I received did not appeal to me and was somewhat “difficult.” She said this reaction was likely for someone who had gone Clear, so possibly I had been audited Clear last lifetime.
2. No experience with this.
3. A,B or C, depending on the awareness and ability of the being.
1. a,b & c
2. N/A
3. b (most real answer for myself but can’t speak for others)
I’m of the same belief, Jonsty: that these memories and abilities are part of the shared consciousness in which there is no “past” and that we tap into these because we are all on the same shared dimension. Sure, they are “past” or “over there” in the way our brains process them, but they are all together in the structure of this universe.
There is a branch of quantum physics which provides explanations to these “mystic” phenomena such as telepathy, past lives, telekinesis, etc. by using the model of the universe as a hologram. Good reading on this is available in The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
I’m not saying people are lying when they say they remember “being” Elvis or Cleopatra, but these holographic universe theories might also explain why so many PCs are able to recall details as if they were Elvis or Cleopatra (when in Scientology theory there could only be one former Elvis). In this holographic model of the universe, in our shared consciousness stream, we all “were” (or “are”?) Elvis and Cleopatra.
I highly recommend that book mentioned above.
Wow, Marty, it used to be Scn taboo, going public with this line
of questioning! But thanks to the internet, Janet Reitman, and
now you, all unafraid to boldly ask for the “proofs” (if any.) There
will be answers, and people will be able to decide for themselves
as to the veracity (or otherwise!) of the existence of past lives.
so here’s my 2c.worth;
When starting out with life repair, I had zero interest in Sci-fi, or
alien existence, or had even so much as read or watched movies
on these subjects. But that was to change dramatically as my sessions, pried open the most vivid and highly charged incidents,
that had long been buried under incredulous disdain on my part.
I a. All acknowledged by E-meter and auditors when inc.’s run.
i) I was a gallion ship slave master, large rotund, heavily bearded
and actually found the job of whipping the “manpower” awfully
amusing! The more they groaned, the more I laughed, the more
the high soared. Very real, though strange to view oneself in that
occupation, It had both me and my auditor in stitches just recalling
that weird “comedy ” on the high seas! ( so yes, an ex-slave driver!)
ii) The most horrifying experience imaginable. I was a miscreant
who had been thrown into the high walled arena, amidst five others,
who were to be eaten alive by a frenzied, terrifying bunch of starved
male lions, which were set upon us. The Roman concept of blood
sport, with human beings, as the live meals. The terror, pain, and
savagery of being set upon by that beast, was run through by my
auditor, and as I gained more perceptions with each recounting.
I eventually exteriorized in the incident, and was able to view my
totally ripped apart body, from some distance overhead. The
grief of losing my body, was completely numbing, and I was only
able to get a fading picture after that. I had a huge cognition that
I was back in present time, and had transcended that death to
be with the auditor, sharing that experience with her.
iii) Part of a colony of worker beings, with a body akin to a sea
lice. with strange hands that we used much like a crab uses it’s
nippers. Our bodies were crustacian and we had a green
luminous glow similar to that used by earth’s deep ocean sea-
life. Life for us, on an almost totally dark planet, consisted of
harvesting a type of moss, algae, which was used for food for
our “population.” I often found myself withdrawing from this
captive, futile existence, resenting the situation I found myself
in , but feeling helpless to do anything about it. I was severely
punished by the “masters” for inactivity. and rebelling against the slavery. I believe this incident was the precursor of what was to follow in Question 3. below. This incident was the very
first time I had ANY notion, or visual on any type of existence
of actually living on another planet. The perceptions, and the
terrible sense of being used as a slave, were VERY real, indeed.
b) nil, c) nil.
2 a) nil, b) nil. c) nil.
3. a) I had a vivid recall of being taken to an implant station
for the transgression in 1. a iii) above. The scene was quite
terrifying since I was strapped into an electric chair type device
and had a steel helmet fastened on to my head, and remember
that I was to be punished for daring to question the “order”
that was in control of us. That was the last I remember. There
was nothing after that. Incident. I fell unconscious in the auditing
chair during the running of this incident and “came round” with great difficulty some two hours later. That was the full extent of the incident running. I have just had SEVERAL LF BD’s recounting this to you. Thank you, Marty!
b) nil, c) nil.
WOW! WOW! WOW, I just had a HUGE cog on that life lived as
a slave master , myself, (yawn,Yawn) more boil off thanks! Sheesh
Run on a different flow– F-2 this time!
Feeling really good & bright right now! Thank you, Marty!
Calvin B.Duffield
Calvin.
1. A
2. B
3. A
Great that you would look at this. It would be interesting to get your take on this after the survey.
For me: 1.A 2.N/A 3.C
The idea of an active implant station operating for all earth Thetans who are not of a certain case level seems like a way to control the group and reminds me of christian churches using the threat of hell and damnation if you don’t follow Christian doctrine.
Interesting survey, Marty – I like it :).
1.A
2. No experience. Most PCs originated P/L as per 1.A
3. No personal experience – just read/heard about A. Will know more for sure in about 50/60 years when I pass on 🙂
1-B. Shortly after going clear, I came across a reproduction of a fresco by a fairly obscure artist of the early Renaissance. I had a distinct memory of doing this painting, including one section with tricky perspective that had to be reworked a couple of times. A year or so later I saw an oil portrait that I also remembered painting. Sure enough, same artist. I even recalled my strong dislike for the male subject, which had been expressed through a few subtle clues in the portrait.
This triggered memories of three other paintings, which I decided to see if I could track down. I found one of them, or what remained of it on the section of wall still standing. The other two were reported to be completely destroyed. Nothing left but written descriptions, but these matched my mental images quite closely. It turns out there are only two works by this artist that are known to have survived intact, and I had found and recognized them both. This is still subjective I suppose, but it was convincing enough for me.
2-B. A past-life clear was born this time around on the East Coast, but had run an incident of ending the last life in Los Angeles, skidding off the road and over a cliff on a stormy night. After coming to L.A., she went looking for the spot and found it, a sharp curve on Mulholland Drive above Sherman Oaks. She also recognized an old building near downtown, which research confirmed was the same building LRH had used in the very early days of Dianetics.
3-B. Other than short periods of confusion sometimes after a death, I haven’t run much at all between lives, and never anything resembling an implant station. From what I can tell, it was mostly just wandering around, looking for the next likely gig.
Interesting viewpoint. Just because someone recalls it, or even blows charge on it, does not mean they were it…. I have often wondered why so many were important people of the past, and many were the same person…yet, charge blew.
Interesting concept, thetaPotata…I can see what you mean. For my part and despite the fact that I have been using Scientology for a while, I rather want to know than believe. Anything that happens after we die is in my humble opinion pure believing and speculation. I do not know one single person that actually died, was buried and came back to tell us what is going on – again, all this stuff is in the realm of “Believing” – nothing to do with hard cold facts or KNOWING….
Not sure of the interest of this kind of survey. Spiritual experiences are personal. Beliefs are a group thing…. and (joke), chocolates are belgian ! 🙂
1) B. I have very specific recall of past life auditing, which was verified by numerous auditing actions (including CCRD.) I wasn’t able to find my folders though before getting declared. Now they are being held hostage, including my current lifetime folders.
2) B. A p.c. described in detail an obscure historical event (a battle in ancient Chinese history) which he swore he had no previous knowledge of. Afterwards, I looked it up online and it occurred exactly as he said – right down to the date and location.
By the way, it is also quite apparent by meter phenomena whether there is credence to claims of past-life Clears.
3) B. I am pretty sure that this is the usual case. However, I also recall seeing a site on the dark side of Moon. [Have you ever marveled at the astrological “coincidence” that we only ever see the one side of the Moon?]
1. A+C
3. mostly A – Mars
Know it as after an heavy accident, when I was 19, that was run out with R3R I could recall of having had a doublebody experience and gave all the details about it to the auditor. Run out heavy electronics and couldn’t believe the recall and meant I must be mad. Only some years later I read the remarks of LRH about it.
We were drilling one of the upper indoc drills. If I recall correctly you drill the drill before you do it? Am I remembering that right?
She was on OT levels and we were both on Upper Indoc TR’s.
I feel like my writing is not clear today. You keyed me in, good job Marty.
1 a) I have some recall of former existence. Mostly in Session. Memories yes. But no pictures. As soon as I look at a picture it vanishes at that moment instantly. So, I have no mental mass to proof it to myself.
2a in combination with 3a) I have no mental mass proof that I had been a Scientologist before this life. (see 1a answer) The week I entered the org first time I had some recall about it that popped up in session years later. During that session my voice chanced very markedly and my lungs had been affected strongly. To that extend that the auditor (ot 3) feared that my body would be seriously damaged. That is the energy part of the story. The data part is more interesting: I had been Scientologist before this life. In the between life area I had a special treatment. Part of that is implanting commands to damage Scientology. (not to not be part of it any more but to join and do what I can to destroy it.) This awareness I had after I started services and thus had an eye on it. Back on earth I had been in a terrible occluded condition. It took 10 years for me to wake up to the point I could remember a bit what was going on. Basically I woke up the time LRH went through OT3. I cannot locate the implant station in this universe e.g a planet or sun.
This is true by my personal observation and I did not write that to put me in a spcial position nor to be interesting or just for making fun out of it.
Since you’re doing research for your upcoming book, I want to chime in and ask you to address this one question for me in the book.
As you probably know, in the lecture Between Lives Implants 23 July 1963, Ron goes into excruciating detail about what happens between lives, where it happens, how it happens, and how to handle the effects of it. He’s very clear and emphatic. (I’ve listened to the lecture at least ten times over the decades.)
Then, he never ever mentions any of this “data” again. Nowhere that I know of and I’ve seen or heard practically every bit of tech that followed from that point.
Which makes me think that his “greatest ever” technical discovery of the story of why man is trapped on earth was only good for that week, and then he moved on to other matters. Huh?
Leads me to think that Ron never did much “housekeeping,” that is going back and disqualifying technical statements that he made on one day and then the next day changing his mind. It’s all set in concrete, right or wrong.
Back to the tape, satellite flyovers and NORAD radar of the modern day pretty much invalidate much of the information on that tape. Saucers can’t fly into the gulf of lower California and dump off people sight unseen to radar. Not possible. Ron going to Venus exterior and describing everything in vivid detail. It doesn’t seem to show up on satellite photos.
So my main point about this is that I’ve had to simply ignore this lecture by Hubbard as a “passing opinion” of his or perhaps his incident that day as a PC, and myself, I just move on.
Which makes me wonder what else of Ron’s should I ignore or devalue just to be safe?
Now you can view my question as “real critic talk” and it is not. I’ve always been one of the smartest guys out there technically. No dummy. But in recent years after doing one hell of a lot of reading on the Internet, I have to admit that there are a lot of Swiss cheese sized holes in the subject (and the Ron’s history) and I’m waiting to see someone put it all right. Some day.
I’m hoping your Book III will do that as I think there’s a lot of good in the subject (and I’ve been a great benefactor and recipient of it — trained auditor with experience & tech scholar, Old OT7, New OT 6) but the flaws and claims of being inerrant need to be addressed or it will perish under the scrutiny of historians and future generations of very intelligent and good hearted people (like myself) who are looking into the subject.
So Marty, which claims do we believe and which do we not? I’ve been waiting for decades for someone to step up and tell me the truth about everything, rather than promulgating a somewhat silly mythology and series of shore stories invented in 1986 and beyond by the top executives. We out here are not stupid by a long shot.
Please get into all this in your Book III. If you don’t, you’ll lose a lot of credibility from the world at large. This is your chance to set things right.
Forever Lurker
PS: You don’t have to publish this post if you don’t want. I don’t want to spoil your survey by feeding “the correct answer” as given by Ron. Just take note yourself for the book. The world will ask these questions again and again in dozens of historical research books about Ron and Scientology in the future (if the subject has “legs” that strong going forward).
1. Full certainty on past lives and future immortality based on A) yet supported by some of B).
2. A) Have not seen this, I am not an auditor. Tami has full certainty based on a pc she audited at Flag while on internship there. Folders were found and fully verified. I asked her to write it up. She has name, full details.
3. B) I think it’s B). It better be B).
Thanks Marty. I agree with an earlier comment, would be nice if you compile and publish the survey results.
1. Both A and B.
2. No data.
3. Closer to B, but not as simplistic. In the TED talk by Jill Bolte — she describes what happened when she had a stroke. When not encumbered by a body “between lives” possibly it’s not just a matter of floating around the neighborhood like a bored spectator because the advent of total ARC — plugging back into total consciousness, all thought, all existence — would be much more alluring. Maybe some people are getting implanted, but I doubt most people need much help to forget their former identity. I think the evidence would support that most people want a clean start.
So if not asleep or dead, beings might enjoy some of that “total ARC” as Jill Bolte describes. If so, it might explain why about 50% of the population are not even looking for answers. There’s no fear of worsening or demand for improvement. Just a theory. Time will tell.
The Tibetan buddhists have an answer for “why so many were important people of the past” —
They claim that a particularly high Lama when reincarnated MIGHT have several “emanations” — therefore several people could be this high Lama.
One is so-so’s speech aspect, the other is his mind aspect and still another is his body aspect. Depending on the Lama he might have many more “emanations”
Everyone seems quite satisfied with that answer which I found unusually convenient to explain the unexplainable.
There is also a terrific book called “The Politics of Reincarnation” about the Karmapa. High Lama – like the Dalai Lama but another lineage.
The Dalai Lama has decided to squash what will surely be politicizing of his rebirth by the Red Chinese by saying he won’t reincarnate AS the Dalai Lama.
He also said that IF science can prove that a being doesn’t not take on another life (we not limited or assured of human birth, according to buddhist thought, btw) – then he will go with science.
So far, science hasn’t proven either way.
Christine
Very interesting post.
As being a past life Scientologist I remembered in session an incident about my past life that was confusing and i realised that my pt wife was also part of that incident. I didn’t tell anybody about it until one day I read some short comments from LRH about the incident , describing what I was remembering. So I told my wife about it , she just was smiling and told me that the woman that LRH was talking about was her past life identity and she knew that I was the guy he was talking about !
We came both independently to the same conclusions !
I’m not sure what the purpose of this survey is, however it should be kept in mind that the existence of past lives, immortal beings, or even engrams can never be “proven.” Until there are some OT’s around who can operate without bodies and manifest real phenomenon, there will always be a high degree of uncertainty and relative truth regarding this subject. Some may have a lot of reality, whereas others will have none. It’s only important not to invalidate the whole track in session. The real proof is in the results.
1. A and B
2. No data
3. A and B
Past lives first came up on correction lists as highly charged auditing errors. I didn’t believe any of it, but handling the errors was a tremendous relief. After that I routinely ran banks (multiple, multiple) of prior lifetime materials on grades and Dianetics that belonged to entities, to others, to the genetic line, etc. I was able to confirm at least one prior lifetime by researching death records and events of the time period in a country I’d never been to or learned about. The individual had certainly lived and died as I recalled. I have no idea whether the incident was truly “mine” or due to a very expanded ability to contact and cognize any mental mass in my “vicinity” or “awareness.” The same is true of all of the “memories.” I finally decided it didn’t matter and then the mental mass didn’t matter any more.
I do not recall “floating around” but I do recall being very much aware and involved in “alternate” or “different” existences, including a “stint” in a “featureless” but extremely blissful state with no mental mass or physical mass.
So very true.
Much like body routing & OCA test personnel “finding your ruin” operation (LRH really put his finger on something hot), self-pitying degraded beings incapable of holding on to bodies (easily kicked out by others) pray on the “loss” of the recently deceased pretending to assist in re-preparations of “body-form life” by means of deep sympathies, soothing comforts and self-abased confidences (add religious drivel to the mix), but merely running their own implants off on others.
Nothing going on out there that isn’t already happening here to any hospitalized traffic accident victim. All the same drama, but 10 times crazier. Any well-trained auditor on his way up the OT levels won’t bite. Beings very introverted after their physical departure may not be able to perceive any of this but may be so blanketed by kindred souls erroneously wanting to “help”, and can be every bit as much a pest as a reg.
Just another sphere of existence. Many don’t come back here, but seek life with God among these “mock up” implantation operations. Some end up unwittingly living in mutual dreams only to wake up half an eternity later if ever at all.
Reminds me of an LRH quote: (LRH ED 348 INT, RJ 37)
“It means of course that you yourself must more than whiff at the bouquet of tech. It means hard and earnest study and precise application for only those will bring it into full bloom in your life.
It is true that paths are sometimes rough and that travel can be tiring and long. But wait!
There are vistas never dreamed of, there are joys never even known, there are glories no past glory ever surpassed. These wait for you but only if you accept my legacy and help bring these
things about.”
The Egg
By: Andy Weir
You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.
1) None of the above: No proof in the scientific method sense. I’ve always thought that past lives are something one believes in as an article of faith, or not. IMO, it doesn’t matter. It’s a fact that running incidents that are dated prior to this life works in auditing. That was always good enough for me. I’ve run them; my PCs have run them. What it proves to me is that running the earlier-similar incident works and blows the charge. I’ve never bought into personal knowingness being proof of anything. Just look at the recent national election. Many of the Republican principals had total certainty that they were going to win.
2. N/A – Never witnessed this.
3. C. I don’t know. I’ve run out some implant type stuff on a few PCs and listened to LRH talk about it in lectures. I don’t have enough data to reach a conclusion on that one.
1. A and B
2. B
3. A and B
I am doing this without reading any of the existing responses. Will read them after I answer.
Really short answer: It’s Complicated.
Direct answers:
1: A.
2: C.
3: B, mostly. A has happened, in my estimation. Location? Earth and, space craft. This is the complicated one.
Regarding Q1, It would be very interesting to have physical proof of a former existence of mine. But, physical proof is hard to get, even in this lifetime. I doubt I can find any proof at all that I lived in a certain house in Media PA, or in Santa Monica, or other places I lived in THIS lifetime, let alone any previous ones.
More importantly to me, is, did addressing this alleged former existence help me? That I can answer with a resounding YES. So, even if it is ALL a product of my fertile imagination, I have gained by addressing it, and some of the most profound life lessons I have has are the direct result of addressing former existences.
Re 2, I believe that some of my PCs had some sort of physical proof, or knowledge, that they could only have had by living the life – but I never corroborated it – not my mission. My mission was to help the person, not prove the existence of past lives.
Re 3, If you DO NOT accept the whole track (past lives) and only believe that we have one dance on this sphere, and more importantly, that you did NOT exist prior to some mystical moment in your mother’s womb, and will CEASE to exist in entirety at some moment after the body stops pumping blood and nerve pulses, then any discussion of past lives is ridiculous. So, even thinking you were alive one life back is insane to this posse.
But, from my point of view, if you accept the possibility of whole track (past lives) then do the math. Why would your lives be only on this planet? This universe is 15 billion years old, and humans have existed on it for only a couple of hundred thousand years. Most of humankind’s existence has been pretty boring. Live only got interesting since, say 10-15 thousand years ago. This planet is only 4.5 billion years old, and vertebrates left the sea only 375 Million years ago, leaving over four billion years this planet was a sea of either nothing, or plankton, or fishes.
But through all of this, we were here (somewhere) doing something. It is not like the first Homo Sapiens woke up, and then PRESTO a few billion beings just popped into being.
This is why when non-Scientologists talk about us believing in “aliens” I know they don’t get it. The fact is, we are all beings, all in this together, some of us here, and some of us there. Cheap ’50s sci-fi has polluted the minds of otherwise smart people.
As for evil and implants and all that, if there is ONE THING WE KNOW, it is that humans have perfected finding ways to kill other people. you cannot think of a way to kill someone that someone has not ALREADY done, and probably has been done millions of times. The rack. Keel-hauling. Burning at the stake. Skinning and salting. Boiling in oil. The first practical use of nuclear fission was to blow up Hiroshima, for God’s sake. So it is NOT a stretch to think that some people implanted others. In fact, we KNOW it happened: MK Ultra. North Korean and Chinese camps. “The Manchurian Candidate.” We have brainwashing all over the place – child soldiers in Africa, suicide bombers in the Middle East.
So, if we accept we are spiritual beings independent of the body, we can then see that if someone wants to get to US, they have to get to US, not to our body. Getting to US as spiritual beings is implantation, because you can’t kill a thetan.
I personally believe I go back a ways. And I do not accept that this physical universe is the only one. In fact, the odds are very highly in my favor that there are trillions of universes to play in – an effectively endless number. Infinity means just that, and Ron’s use of Infinity in Scientology is very well played.
This is what I believe, and Scientology supports that better than any religion or science I have seen, because it is open. There is no heaven or hell “except that thinking makes it so” (to paraphrase the Bard). There is no “God on a throne” except I do believe in God.
Now, could I be wrong? Yes. I don’t think so, but yes, I could be wrong, or misguided. But so what? If I am wrong, then I die end I cease to exist. That is pretty freaking depressing, but if the materialists end up being right, then I won’t be around to care.
Mark Patterson
Thanks, Wayne, it is good to get the Mormon point of view. My wife’s family is Mormon, and I find it fascinating. You may be right.
I guess if you are a scientologist you arent really in the mindset of compiling evidence to prove anything. You just do something and it works and you say OK and move on.
Now that is a new viewpoint for me…interesting. In many ways, it doesn’t really matter, I suppose, as long as charge is blown and one is thereby freed up to be more in the present, differentiated from then and now.
1) No conclusive subjective evidence for me.
2) N/A
3) From the various wholetrack refs I’ve heard or studied, it appears to be either a) or b) although I’m unsure what the determining factor would be.
Despite 1) being true, I have nevertheless experienced it from an objective standpoint, having had several pcs run wholetrack on Book One.
Having been London staff and working over the Technical division, we used to get many telexes enquiring after the existence of old pc folders in the archives, sometimes with specific names and sometimes with variations of what it could be. Always interesting and I believe we did identify one of these on one occasion which was quite special.. .
.
Jonsty – I completely agree – the purpose of auditing, meditation and other practices is for charge to be blown – for lives to improve – for suffering to be less. How that is accomplished ultimately doesn’t matter – what matters is the result. A happier/healthier life.
1 B : My mother was in an hospital waiting for my birth. Baby did not arrive fast and she was bored of waiting. I was too ! I was – as a being – in the room waiting for a new body. I had the terror that a being jumped on the baby before me. I remember this fear and I remember exactly the room of delivery. One day I described this room to my mother and she confirmed the description. I have a perfect recall without being audited on the birth. My mother was very surprised !
The beauty of being independent is that you can figure it out for yourself. The goal is not to prove the existence of between-lives implants, or Fac-1 or the Ice Cube, or whatever, the goal is to help people do better, and if addressing this helps them, then great. So, the criteria is, everything is interesting, or not, but what matters is what helps people. This is, of course, my opinion.
You are no doubt aware of Ron’s foray into “Para-Scientology” – this applies here.
Beautifully said…Thank you!
I left something out of my description of coming into my current life body.
Right before “awakening” and taking interest in something I have a timeless, locationless state like I’m everywhere and nowhere- not really observing anything or existing as a being but like oil in the water, or smoke in the air in a non physical way. Then for some reason I observe something or something interests me and in order to participate I have to come out of that state and right then is where I become a being with location and time.
Great quote, Randy. Love that song.
1. A and B.
2. N/A
3. B Don’t know about the “cruising”. More like spilling. Like a liquid with no mass. Had issues adjusting with temperatures oddly enough, the warm body had been like a nice sleeping bag. See retries gravitate towards climate. Had problems with no sleeping, a habit formed. Felt “sleep deprived” for a while. Craved “sleep”. No color (not viewing through eye lens and sounds adjustments) (not hearing via ear drums) . In between lives ptp’s addressed in auditing. I had a lot of out ruds on it. Viewed as a “death sentence”. Flying “in between life” ruds was very helpful.
and C. On other, I have run overts and with holds committed in between lives area also. Interfering with other people’s determinism. Being places I wasn’t supposed to be.
Great idea Marty…
For me…
1) a. At first I thought they were imaginings or perhaps somewhat like dreams. I just went ahead and gave them to the auditor and got case gain. Over many years and many looks into the past I have come to view past lives as a near certainty.
2) N/A
3) I really have no actual recall of the whole “death/between lives/birth” succession. I have recalled some of each but not as a succession of events.
—–
Comments: Lately I have become much more aware of a being’s (mine specifically) penchant for “ripping” pictures and such from other beings and entities, the environment, or wherever. ( perhaps some explanation of how it could be that so many people may think they have been Napoleon, Cleopatra, or whatever.)
But on proving the existence of past lives, here is a scenario to consider if one pleases.
Suppose a person was middle aged, had a serious accident and was rendered unconscious. Now suppose that person was transported to another area of the planet while unconscious, and then recovered. That person would claim to have “lived elsewhere before”, or had another “life” before the new time and place he was currently living in. But if he never physically returned to the earlier place, except in his memory, how could he prove its reality to someone in his “new life”? Gets a bit difficult…. Now add to that the case where he might have been unconscious for many years, or had been in the new life for many years and been constantly told that he was just imagining that he had ever been elsewhere. Once you have gotten to that point the person himself will have had his knowingness and his memories invalidated to such a degree that even he would likely have come to think of these memories as imaginings, dreams, or some such, if he was even able to recall them at all.
Now let’s take the average man, woman, or child who has “memories” of other times and places…Some seemingly dating from tens of years, thousands of years, or tens of thousands of years ago, or much, much longer, at each magnitude becoming less and less documented. Once the generation who experienced these events first hand are gone from an area, it is well nigh impossible to prove, in detail, ANY part of exactly what took place in any place at any time. Even highly documented historical events are all just stories or memories the minute they have passed. Whether it is true or not, good luck conclusively proving any of it scientifically. Science, when looking back, can actually prove very little, and then only physical things..
It is only the memories of beings that contain the first hand data as to what happened anywhere, ever.
(oops went a bit long)
Eric S
That’s awesome, Calvin. I ran “Roman times” when I was a kid – I did not have much study of it, but I kept on getting into situations where I was in one army or another, fighting for one side or another, and the side happened to be the side I was born into. I read “The Illiad” a few years ago, and it described exactly what I was doing – I had never even heard of Homer when I ran this out (thank you, Western Public Education).
But the key was that I became a pacifist, because of this. The insanity of it became very apparent: See-sawing allegiances with see-sawing lifetimes. The British & French soldiers who died in Verdun in WWI became the Nazis who faught for “Der Fuhrer”, and vice versa. How stupid.
P.S. My twins were born across the street from the A.O. in Los Angeles at Kaiser Hospital. My husband and I had never mentioned the word “Scientology” to them and we had a with hold from them that we were even involved. Oldest twin spoke of past lives naturally until he was four. “In my last life….” When my oldest twin was 12 he walked up to me one day and said, “Can you get me to a “mind clearer”? He nagged another two months with this until we got him with an auditor. He recently finished grade zero. Still nagging for more auditing. He wrote a screenplay when he was 10. Having never seen one before. Working actor at the present at 13 years old. None of this really seemed like a big deal here.
1) B
2)No
3)i would like to believe B as long as I don’t follow the light
i don’t remember where I got this data
Interesting, but it follows a lot of Hindu thought. Alan Watts describes it well, as well.
You have to remember that “who we are” has a lot of contributors. A lot of what we create about ourselves, our personality, our opinions, even, are in the context of this life. We have current relationships with our family, with friends we met long ago, or more recently. We have experiences based on whether we were born rich or poor, into large families or no family at all. We develop a body of personal knowledge based on very basic assumptions we made along the way. We are influenced by our country, state, city, county, or hemisphere. If I grew up in India, I would still be fundamentally Me, but I would have a completely different world view from about 10 or 20% of my knowledge base up. The 10-20% is basic understanding and true core belief.
I think the survey was not about what Ron said 50 years ago about it.
“So Marty, which claims do we believe and which do we not? I’ve been waiting for decades for someone to step up and tell me the truth about everything,……”
That is a long wait. Might be quicker to figure out the truth for yourself. Of course, you do have to put forth the effort to get honestly up the bridge. Nobody is going to be able to do that for you.
FL, your statement below surprised me;
“So Marty, which claims do we believe and which do we not? I’ve been waiting for decades for someone to step up and tell me the truth about everything, rather than promulgating a somewhat silly mythology and series of shore stories invented in 1986 and beyond by the top executives. We out here are not stupid by a long shot.”
Waiting for decades for someone to tell you the truth about everything sounds like being at effect. Dont expect Marty or anyone else to do that for you. No one probably can. Take what works and leave the rest. Do your own evaluating about whats true. Sounds like you were heading in that direction in your reference about past lives.
If something has been suppressed or hidden, it may see the light of day. But who can assure you that even that is true. Its one viewpoint or one witness. Marty does not have the final say on truth and his credibility will not be lost by anything not covered in Book III.
If your old OT7 and a tech scholar, what the hell do you need Marty for anyway
Very good point.
There is no need at all to study past lives in the Theravada tradition.
It is simply not needed.
GMW
Wayne,
Thank you so much for the Mormon viewpoint.
I read that Mormon’s believe that God is living on a planet somewhere
in the universe. Is this true?
GMW
Will answer later on. Still at work. But, I love that you have asked the question and that people are answering. Open communication about Past lives. Excellent. Love the freedom.
! A Many past life identities during Dianetics auditing . Also a number of others contacted in confessional and FPRD.
1B Not sure if this fits the question but I ran an incident in Dianetics which had me landing on an airfield on the top of some mountains here on earth, a year or more later I was watching a movie “Chariots of the Gods” which was speculating on the marks in the land on the top of some of the South American mountains which were being considered as posible landing strips and what I saw was the exact same landing area I saw in the incident.
1 (b) is the only part I can answer at this point. I was able to corroborate things I remembered in auditing with library-type research.
Originally posted this as it’s own comment, but in reality it was inspired by jas1’s post above. Would be interested to see what people think about the below short story.
The Egg
By: Andy Weir
You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.
I don’t know how many people here have a data series evaluators course pack. There is an HCOB in it 28 Aug 70 revised and reinstated 27 January 1981 OUTPOINT PLUSPOINT Lists. 105 outpoint questions on the list. 104 pluspoint questions on the list. It is an assessment list. Pretty much everything on those lists could get a read on someone in between lives. Ha Ha, especially, “missing person?” ________ Laughter! “decreased importance?” ______ “Everything different?” __________ Type of questions.
I am sure if anyone was audited with those lists prefaced with, “in between lives”, the charge off would be remarkable!
The plus point questions could rehab some great in between lives memories! Such as, “Knowing what was and wasn’t important” _________ ” The True facts.” _______ “Knowing the relative importance of things” ________
Laughter!
1. a
2. not apply
3.b
when i first did auditng mid 60s, had so many past lives that came up. and then on l11 and l12. i have total certainty i have been around along time. met so many people in and out of scientology that have a strong certainty.
ingo swann told me this summer,he doesnt know what happenes when you die,and i feel the same way, but i know im not my body and i will continue.
1 A.
2. B.
3. A. Unless has awareness of it and becomes cause over the situation.
I should note that I have audited a PC that started speaking another language fluently while describing an incident. The next day she told me that, she had committed one line to memory, and gone and spoken to people who were multi-lingual, who identified the language and translated it for her. It fit the incident perfectly.
I also audited a PC who recalled something she believed to be historically incorrect or impossible. She was a freelance journalist and very skeptical, but willing to look. After session, she research the memory and found that what she thought was impossible, had in fact occurred. She had no prior knowledge of this obviously.
And I could go on but that says it to me.
Hey Calvin, Good for you on your wins!
I can completely appreciate your experience in Rome. I ended up in the Coliseum after being swept up with of what I believe were Christians but certainly expendables as far as the Roman soldiers were concerned.
My upset was not having been torn apart and eaten by the lions but was on the loss of my mother.
After I died I made my way back to my home and found my mother beside herself with worry. I had gone into the city to beg for the day and she had been searching frantically for me for some days . (I was quite young) I took it pretty hard because she was a lovely woman who cared for and loved me. My last memory was her cheerful goodbye the day I left for the city while she happily swept the stone floor of our home.
Perhaps different cultures would have different answers too.
We don’t seem like the kind of folk to “report in” to anyone!
The people still left at the Int Base would be the “report in” kind of folks!
i had a similar experience in Method 1 word clearing. In this case produced a fairly long sentance. It sounded like jibberish to me, but my auditor pretty much understood what i said. He was from an eastern country and what i said was in the older form of one of the 3 languages he spoke. We were able to piece the definitions together from several dictionaries and the derivations of these words (archaic). The resulting translation made perfect sense with the memory that came with the phrase.
I have another question for you, that’s somewhat off topic of this blog, but something you may have insights into. Judging from your comments, you enjoy Hindu and/or Buddhist ideas, and so do I. In fact, many of those concepts have helped to revitalize my search for truth and spiritual freedom, so deeply crushed in the Church over the past decades. I believe I have freed myself from that Church mess, and feel now free to explore again the idea of spiritual freedom, and have successfully done so.
One thing that has puzzled me though, or a question I have often considered, is how much of my ability to now understand the concepts of Buddhism are due to the fact that I also had gains in auditing to OT 7 or in training to Class 5? For example, I tried to meditate years ago, but failed. I tried to understand Buddhist ideas but they went right over my head. Now, though, as a trained OT, meditation creates huge gains. In fact, I tend to meditate as I wander around in life, having gains all the time. Basically, I feel SCN is a modernized use of Hindu and Buddhist concepts anyway, so in effect, I feel I have been on the same Eastern religion path for the past 40 years now. It is almost as if SCN helped me better assimilate and understand Buddhism and Hinduism. Make sense?
Have you ever had these thoughts or questions? Specifically, how did auditing/training help you understand Buddhism, or, visa versa?
In fact, this question is also for you Marty.
BTW Calvin, Do your remember how badly it stunk under the Colisieum?
Lion urine and crap plus heat and no air circulation makes for a bad time!
1b, 2b, 3b
Even though the motto of the Sea Org is “We Come Back” the Glorious Leader hates returnees.
Why so?
Perhaps he fears such individuals because with such recall and unshakable confidence in their own immortality, they will not fear him sufficiently.
Perhaps its because these folks might remember LRH as he really was, not the myths purveyed by Glorious Leader.
Perhaps its because the may know what SCN really looks like when its booming.
Perhaps its becuase they may care mor about SCN and fellow beings than they do about Glorious Leader.
Perhaps its because the may remember truths that could reveal his lies.
Perhaps he fears they could have knowledge of specific crimes he has committed.
Perhaps it is all of the above.
I dont really know. But i do know, and find it rather curious, that a church built upon the promise of not only immortality, but knowable and knowing immortality, is decidely cool to those who come to remember life as a past Scientologist.
Hahaha, sure! That sounds good!
Perhaps the existing scientific method does not lend itself well to paranormal phenomena based on the currently available and “scientifically accepted” technology. 1 piece of proof for, & 1 piece of proof against is proof of its inadequacy. In many instances merely a “No answer yet” technology.
The currently accepted scientific method …
1. Does not have the means to make a definite determination either way, thus limited in scope.
2. Does not even in the least sway the certainty/knowledge of those who have experienced past lives.
Not refuting anything you have stated though, merely adding a few considerations.
1) A
2) At the age of 4 I took my daughter for the first time into the FH. At the top of the stairs I got into a comm cycle with my IAS Reg. My daughter indicated she had to potty. I told her I would take her she said “i know where it is and went right down the steps and to the womans wash room. 2 weeks later we were going west on Cleveland (I lived in CW then) and were approaching Fort Harrison and she suddenly said ” dad pull over I want to go in there and see the film (pointing at the Coachman and obviously referring to the recruiting film)..They had just started showing so we had to wait for next she said “thats ok dad I’ve seen it before”
3) a and b (location I spotted in session was in the desert in SW US)
1. a
2. n/a
3. b
Now that is a truly warm and emotional recall K. Leaves one
moved inside, that’s for sure.
In a recent blog post (“Dimensions”) Marty quoted an excerpt from physicist and author Thomas Campbell’s book My Big Toe. Campbell was one of the original consciousness explorers at The Monroe Institute (TMI) in Virginia in the 1970s and the explorer identified as “TC Physicist” in Bob Monroe’s book Far Journeys. Tom’s studies of out-of-body experiences continued for over three decades, all done with scientific protocol.
Invalidation of previously attested to states (requires buying intensives at top dollar rates) and endless sec checking. Two fund raising tools the corporate church loves to employ. I get emails and promo all the time about how the bridge has been streamlined and people are moving up easier than ever. Little do the poor bastards know that they face the tactic of “oh you didn’t really make it on this earlier level, you need to buy $$$ intensives to get all fixed up.”
1 – A & B
2 – N/A
3 – A & B
Interesting recall exercise
1)A
2)N/A
3)B
3-c EXPLANATION:
After leaving Scientology in 82. I procceded with dailey meditation from 15min through 8 hrs. A day. But I’d say at least 1 hr to 2 hrs on average, until this day. That is dailey in the chair for the last 30 years non stop.
What I have discovered from my own perception is that there are no space aliens implanting us after leaving the flesh.
It is possible that as result of past world cycles, there are memories of hi tech space cultures in this, or any other star system.
On further self inquiry and deep meditation I found not only is the after beautiful but such a relief to discard broken forms.
So I theorized, my theories mind you, maybe not yours: OK, out of all the sages, saints, buddhas, mahatmas and scriptures since beginning-less time, Ron is the only one who says you don’t go to a good place, except maybe Fundamentalist Christians.
All other sources of the after life (verified by doctors and nurses during near death experience) say that it is a beatiful experienece, meeting your friends and family seeing a beautiful loving light (not the electronic pain buzz between the eyes, making you believe that the light is good so that they can control you and make a slave).
Most sages and saints I have read say that a normal amount of time in the astral world (that world which operates on different laws than this material economy and operates primarily with thought and energy) for about 500years earth time. But that time is karmically determined to some degree.
Also the say that there are many regions (universes) that accomodate the various degree of beings from the murderous demonic to the highest elevated Buddha to no form at all: The Uncreated Absolute.
So where you go after death depends on your advancement in living Dharma, practicing spiritual techniques and so on.
The highest regions cannot be tolerated by SP/demonic type beings because of their finer loving/wisdom rates of vibration.
As worms live in the earth and birds in the sky thus “In my Father’s house there is many mansion.” Jesus
There are lower worlds and higher worlds depending on spiritual advancement of transcending the body while in it, and the good merit of being good decent person who lives love.
So in my 30 year inner dailey journey I I found nobody wants to pick up another body directly after death.
It’s vacation time Walley, geewizz!
Stories stories stories. When a man or a women tells you that they are the only being in the history of the universe to find something, and that they are the only ones to lead you out, and every other wisdom school on the planet is ‘johnny come lately’ even though none of those schools corroborate these electronic between lives incidents, your conclusion could only be:
1) What I just told you is me dramatizing
2) Every other teacher is not as evolved as Ron
3) Every near death experience recorded was only a key in
4) There is no God light within, God’s light is an implant, a zappee doo en la cabasa
5) The after life is torture, not joyous and free.
6) Souls clamber to get back to this hell hole to buy more Scientology
And on and on
Think
Jonsty: You must be fairly new to this blog. As an OTVIII who became a buddhist only 7 years ago, I’ve often said that my understanding of buddhism I feel is good because of my journey in scientology.
However, this is a blog of those primarily interested in scientology so if you’d like to discuss this further, feel free to email me at
windhorse11@hushmail.com
Christine
Why isn’t “none of the above” listed as an option? I guess it’s the intended audience? If it were an option (let’s say option “d”), I would report:
1) d
2) d
3) c (I don’t know, and neither does anyone else, unless you’re actually “between lifetimes” currently, and can actually post on this blog)
And we keep coming to earth or places like it to work out our physical shit until we seek the finer life, the life of truth, discipline, study, service, love etc. unto forever.
THE AFTER LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!
Except if you believe in nightmares and live a dishonest hurtful life.
1. a) Many wholetrack recalls, some of them including knowledge of my own name or identity in the incident. The real evidence comes from recognising the causal connection between the wholetrack incident and a present time condition, and finding that this condition is resolved as a result.
2. N/A
3. a), at least sometimes. I always knew I’d had a horrible experience “out in space” before picking up the present body. In fact, that was my first point of agreement with Scientology. Not sure of the locality – seemed to be a space station near Earth, although that might just be false data from the implanters. But they can’t catch everyone, every time (absolutes are uanattainable!). There must be thetans who are more aware, or just lucky, and go to another body on their own self-determinism.
And the goal of all these various vibrational school regions is getting back to Source. The whole play is designed to bring the soul back to the realization: I am eternal conscious soul, I have never been born and have never died. It has all been the play of the Eigth Dynamic. A cosmic drama of our own making.
Proof is difficult. In session have looked at the creation of the universe and participated. True? Dunno but won’t reject it,.
Formost, I agree with what you have to say. Science is not equipped to measure the immeasurable.
According to Scientology cosmology as expressed on the Know to Mystery scale, at Knowingness, matter, energy, space, and time is just a mockup or group mockup.
So are past lives possible given this assumption? Sure.
Do I KNOW that – no. I’m not sure that level of knowingness is even attainable. Maybe others disagree.
I’ll answer this later when I get a little bit of time. Meanwhile, this cat has done some fascinating work on this subject.
You said: “So Marty, which claims do we believe and which do we not?” – Asking others what you should believe in? You’ve already done a good job of discerning that the lecture from 1963 doesn’t add up. You’re a powerful being in your own right, don’t rely on others to tell you what to believe. My advice, don’t get lost wading through LRH space opera and other far out aspects of his lectures and writings. If you can use the tech to become a better being (remove charge) and help others to do the same, then who cares about superfluous, colorful window dressing like DC10’s and Volcanoes. Reads are reads and Tone Arm action is the release of charge.
OK, I’ll bite…
1. A – but I do not regard this as proof, nor do I have 100% certainty despite tremendous charge in session.
2. N/A
3. No clue
Re 3, I have been curious about these so-called implant stations. LRH describes them as MEST locations using electric energy, pain, force, shock, etc – all MEST manifestations. If these stations exist in the MEST universe on Mars and the Moon why have they not been observed and recorded by NASA, et al?
Nancy
The short answers:
1. A, B & C
2. B
3. A, B & C
1) a Past life clear
2) b
3) b
1. A
2. N/A
3.A – implant station definitely indicates to me. Where? Out there. Not on earth. Forgetting treatment doesn’t indicate to me as what occurred. It certainly is possible that people experience a few different things between lives too. Then back into the game. Not everybody goes in a body. I just run one.
And is good. Unless we are all pawns and victims. That is not truth.
1a
2b (in each case I know of, when the person identified their previous identity their current life veered in that direction. The evidence being a past beingness or doingness rather than a havingness. eg. one discovered a past life as a famous musician and then dropped his current career in favor of music. Not the same as identifying a long lost husband, but certainly not a whim either.)
3b – in my own experience. It would be c for others.
That was from my M1. I did the co-audit and the long time veteran sup said that was pretty common for people to run into the forein language stuff.
Now I re look at the questions its my considerations rather than the way you asked the questions. There is always a nagging doubt as to what you are looking at in session as being real. I had thought I was a returning Scientologist and had it invalidated many times at the church by D of P’s and other people. I had originated past life clear, past life PC and returning Scientologist from almost the first course I had ever done (HQS). I had that invalidated time after time. Restimulating for me.
1. What degree of proof do you have of the existence of previous lifetime identities of your own?
answer: none, I have received somewhere in the area of 300-500 hours of auditing. I haven’t gone whole track, just tried to answer the auditing question.
2. If you have witnessed as a C/S or auditor the return of a Scientologist in a new body after death, which of the following applies:
answer: don’t know, have no data.
3. What happens to thetans between lifetimes on this planet?
answer: Have no idea, never experienced it.
I have gone exterior in auditing and as a kid before any auditing or knowledge of such.
Jonsty, it is because the symbols that bring up charge do just that, bring up charge.
The form of the thought could be suggested by agreement, as with a religious doctrine, ego (the need to be a great VIP and not a dirty muddy peasant dead at 30 from a cut infection)
But even if the relative association of thinking it’s something-to feeling something, and have it read on the meter only detects that something is there. If the mind can confront and experience the energy even though the ‘incident’ is not accurate in it’s form! the charge can blow because the thetan has confronted and experienced the negative force in the mind. It is the neutralization of the force and not nesseccarily the story that brought up that force.
To differentiate between the negative painful force of the bank/mind and the soul is a cognition. I am not this body, not this mind, I am the soul.
Differentiation is what is occuring in auditing. Whatever story brings you there is fine. But at some point stories need inspecting to see the true nature of pain and suffering.
Sometimes the story that leads you there, is not the truth ultimately. But the energy that is being A=A=Aed is real and available to be audited.
Jacques: Very pleased to discover you (and also Pierre R) here in the Indy Field. I am an old friend from the 1980s in Montreal. Would love to write to you and catch up on some old times. Email? Or best method of contact?
Jas1, have you ever run a whole track incident in session, like an engram or a n overt? I mean personally?
1. A definitely and some B as back-up
2. N/A
3. B
Comment: Long before Scientology, as a 16 year old girl, my best girlfriend and I decided we had definitely been men before, as we noticed we sometimes “thought like guys”. It was no big deal, a normal conversation, but I remember feeling very sure.
1. A – Can’t lie people this is an unshakeable reality as what was handled in 1978 and never to return was a lifetime (22 yrs in) of nightmares.
2. n/a
3. Can’t honestly answer as never addressed this with reality, unlike 1 above – so will not evaluate or invalidate but after more Grades and NED will probably be able to give a more accurate answer.
1. b.& c.
2. b.
3. b.
1. a
2. n/a (have not witnessed)
3. a,b,c. (conjecture based on some experience while exterior)
True, true ThetaPotata. And I do appreciate that simplicity and embrace it.
Vicar, thank you and here is more to my point. Why don’t you read the soon-to-be-released Lawrence Wright and Glenn Samuels books, specifically the sections where Ron’s final years are discussed in detail.
I’ve been told by Earle Cooley and Int management that Ron had a very healthy and stout body when he decided to “discard” it to go do “upper level research.” Told this for twenty five years when I questioned about it at AOLA and Flag or wherever. That he was in perfect “mental clarity and power” at the end of his life. That he had achieved full OT, as much as can be achieved with a body, that is. Hence, he discarded the flesh encumbrance. I don’t believe this to be true from the numerous back channel conversations I’ve had. Far, far from it.
I’d just like someone to level with me (Marty in his book) and tell me if this was all true or just made up nonsense out of the imaginations of DM and Pat Broeker. I have many more questions about this and other things but don’t feel it’s the time or place to air them right now. I don’t want to be a provocateur (more than I might have been already).
From the people I’ve spoken to that would know, the real story is quite different from what’s been portrayed by management for the past twenty five years.
I don’t mind following in someone’s (Ron’s) footsteps in the snow, as long as those footsteps don’t lead me off the edge of a cliff and into a crevasse at the end. Nor do I want to drive myself batty trying to attain some OT state that no one (including Ron) has attained and is still possibly only theoretical to this day.
That said, I’m happy with what I did on the Bridge so far and happy where I stopped. I’m fine with what I got. Doing well in life. I’d just like to know the truth about the rest of it. The road out.
Read the two books I mentioned if you feel like it and get back with me. I may say more after I read Marty’s Book III one day. And I do appreciate Marty’s opinions about things and his heroic attempt to salvage the good in the tech after decades of cover-up and misrepresentation (lying to me and others) by misguided executives. (Like the “upper OT levels” lie, for one. The carrot that was dangled for thirty years.) I’m still a little sour about that one. I sacrificed so much of my life financially, career-wise, and family-wise chasing that created lie about the Bridge.
No one likes to be lied to . . . especially for decades. What else should I not believe in?
Hence, some of the stuff coming out in the books very soon could be upsetting or shocking to some. I’ve already had my “shocks” over a number of years . . . on a gradient, if you will. Will be different for me than many others.
Forever Lurker
Hi Steve,
I always ask the question “If reincarnation was an openly acknowledged fact common to everyone, what kind of world would you want to leave behind to come back to?”
I’ve seen the Jill Bolte Taylor TED talk you refer to, “A Stroke of Insight.” I would say that the difference LRH describes in Scientology is that there is a big difference between “dwelling” in PT and being in ACTION in PT. You are a classic example of this difference.
If we’re going to play a game in the MEST universe, LRH just said there are better games to be played and Scientology is how you get into shape to play better games.
1. A, B, C.
2. N/A
3. A. – the moon (on the dark side) is one that I personally know of from having tried to destroy it in the past. Sorry guys, I blew it by getting caught and was cast dowwwwwwn! (and wound up with the awareness level of a rock for a while) But hey, I figure if I can come back from that, everything else is just gravy.
B. Yes.
C. Depends on the nature of the being in question, Active OT, Degraded Being, or merely imbued with life, but not the source of life.
Myself – Princeton Graduate 1902
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62824900@N06/8250811513/sizes/l/in/photostream/
1. A
2.na
3. I don’t know.
1.A. Additionally, I have the hobby of building some of the gadgets from different incarnations, to see if they work like they did at that time. These would be elementary school science project type things, or low-tech production gadgets from relatively primitive societies. They always do.
2 never did this. I have recognized one person that I knew before on Earth, though.
3 Used to be mostly A, then some implanters lost some big stations in deep space. Now it’s B. (This is good!)
This an interesting survey I have thought pretty much the whole day whether I cared to respond, and here we are.
Past lives yes, but are they are own past lives? They could be.but they could be others past lives.
Exteriorization- without a doubt. What happen’s between lives, is their a between lives “implant”? Yes for some perhaps.
Final thought, it really depends as Hubbard as said where you stand as a Thetan, and what kind of shape you are in. Sorry, if this offends some, apologies.
1. A.
B. N/A
C. Get this. There was a fellow that joined the Sea Org in CLO WUS (I forget his name). He told me he had a son who was born in Korea (this guy lived in Korea and married a native). When his son was 2 years old they moved to Los Angeles. When his son was 5 years old until he was 13 years, he would look around the house for “the book” every time he and his wife had a fight or argued. One time he asked his son “What book?” “The ethics book” said his son. “Where is it?” The dad said “What are you talking about?”
One day they were driving around LA and they passed the complex. The kid shouted out “Turn the car around. Go back to the blue buildings.” He had his father turn around and park in front of AOLA. The 13-year-old jumped out of the car, ran into AOLA and went straight up to Enid Byrne and said “I am John McMasters (the Sea Org McMasters, not the Clear #1), I am OT VII and my folders are at Flag.” Enid freaked out and said “What is this?” The dad caught up with him and asked Enid what this place was. Enid had to explain what was going on. The dad became fascinated. The kid wanted to buy auditing for his parents because they “Were so crazy”. The kid got more and more involved in the org and eventually joined the Sea Org at AOLA. The dad took courses at LAD. Eventually the mom freaked out and went back to Korea. The father (Oh ya, Larry was his name) joined the Sea Org at CLO WUS in Division 6. The kid routed out of the Sea Org a year later because he was posted as a recruiter (!!??!!), Larry blew the Sea Org 5 years later. I verified this story with Enid.
ML Tom
You also should read about Rabbi Gershom and his books on reincarnation, baby boomers, and the Holocaust, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonassan_Gershom.
Interesting, Grasshopper, about the “British & French soldiers who died in Verdun in WWI became the Nazis who faught for “Der Fuhrer”, and vice versa.” – my experience was a little different. I was a Canadian Sargeant who sustained a direct hit by an explosive artillery round at Verdun in 1914. I was pissed as I looked down at the “vaporized” body. Anyhow, I had left a beautiful, pregnant wife on our farm in upper Ontario. After 20 years or so of observing what was going on “below” (back on earth), I decided to come back. Now, inasmuch as it was clear to me that the Nazis were bad guys and had just conducted the first national election in which they had total control (opposition parties were banned from the election), I decided to come back as near to my previous home as I could, but thinking at that time that a new World War was inevitable, I chose to get parents who were citizens of the United States. I was born this lifetime, nine months following that Nazi election in Niagara Falls, NY, not Canada, on July 28, 1934.
1) A. Jumped happily into Scn very shortly after reading Ruth Montgomery’s “Here and Hereafter”. Made total sense to me!
2) C, tho I believe this pc did work with LRH. Her life history in Scn was too improbable to NOT have. The C/S of course claimed dub-in and “not Clear”. I think she was.
3) Don’t know but hope B. Suspect each of us plays the main role in creating our between lives destiny and reality.
Yes indeed K, you have just described part of it! The
barbarism experienced at the hands of those heartless soldiers, just exacerbated the terror of what awaited us!
The terror of just being in that situation, as a human
being, is only really ameliorated, when one is able to
contextualize that one DOES, thankfully, transcend body
death, to once again move on to a new chapter, living
a “new” life, in a “new” body, usually with complete and
utter amnesia of “having lived” previously. For those
doubters and lurkers, the sudden-ness and jarring reality
of being thrust into a long past “terror” incident, with all
the raging perceptions screaming within you at full volume,
—that needs to be experienced personally! (just for a
smidgen of reality, if nothing else, please!)
For the most part, we are able to share the recounting of
these earlier experiences, due entirely to the miraculous
standard auditing technology, developed by LRH, to free
us all from the buried memories, recorded upon our individual “time tracks”, yet not otherwise unavailable to voluntary recall.
Ah…..yes. “Scientology”–knowing HOW to know–(answers)
Just an amazing tool-box, with which to take apart, examine,
put together again, and understand, life, and existence,
from an unlimited number of viewpoints and experiences.
ML,Calvin.
1 – A – ran stuff in session, but not sure what is real and what is dub in, But prior to being on the bridge had a past life recall. That was unprompted, just occurred suddenly and convincingly.
2-b Michelle – the IAS reg at flag was telling me she was a scio in past life, picked up a body with red hair on purpose. ( just a conversation we had, didn’t audit her)
3 ?? never ran anything like it, however read some of Michael Newtons Life Between Lives stuff, the bit with the spirit guides that help you plan your next life – it really seems like an implant. Something’s not right about it.
Mimsey
Geez, Tony. We should talk. We’ve got very similar last life tracks.
I spent some time recovering from war injuries in a military hospital in Alameda, California in the late forties. While I was there a smart red headed guy helped me out with some newfangled mental therapy. I wasn’t quite sure how it was helping me, but it definitely was. I began recovering much better than expected, and at a fast pace. One day I got up and walked outside to the grounds, and realized that I had changed into a special kind of being. I knew at that moment that I would never be the same again.
Twenty five years later, I was a nineteen year old kid, searching for the truth of life. I read, then tossed one book after another, until I ran across a self help book that mentioned the word, Scientology. When I saw that word, it began pulsating like a blinking light. I’d never seen the word, but somehow it seemed important. It called to me.
After searching high and low for nine months, I finally found the one and only reference to that word, in of all places, the Los Angeles Yellow Pages. I called the number, and the rest is history.
K, I remember how dank and rotten that holding cell in the Coliseum was. It was actually somewhat of a relief when the soldiers finally opened the door and shoved us into the bright sun of the arena. It was over pretty quickly after that.
Brilliantly written, Mark! And what is so inspiring in your post
is that, there is simply no dogmatic hyperbole, or insistence
on this or that reality, but rather an open invitation to your
reader to decide for themselves, as was the thrust of most
of LRH’s philosophic writings ( contrary to detractor’s BS!!)
Thank you for such a positive, sensitive, contribution! You
really “shine” man!
BTW, I made earlier references to a “must see” that can
really turn doubters on their respective heads;
If you haven’t watched it earlier–(Google!) the 15 minute
clip——” Reincarnation–evidence of past lives ”
(a documentary on a little boy called “James” –James 3 to
be more “accurate”)
Enjoy,
Calvin.
Giving respect to a wonderfully concise description of the experience of being, doing and having a “game” in this universe(or any, really!) one could and should make apersonal study of “The Factors,” which condense theentirety of physical, mental and spiritual creation and
existence — into a treatise written by L.Ron Hubbard,
which could be described as ” the awe inspiring revelations
of an unsurpassed GENIUS whose discoveries have yet
to be fully grasped, for their simplicity and TRUTH!”
—-and that would still not give the man his due!
Ref: “The Factors” April 23, 1953 — L.Ron Hubbard
For a wonderful, presentation of our true spiritual nature-
(Google) –” Reincarnation –evidence of past lives.” If
that doesn’t convince one of having lived before, then, IMHO, one is simply “switched off ” into reduced awareness and living as half “dead” already.Thetan “skid-row” territory!
Calvin.
Eric,
A first class positing of facts and data, to chew on for
broadening one’s realities, Thanks very much!
Kind regards to you and you wife,
Calvin.
Re # 1 – My first NED session went whole track and I vividly re-experienced the perceptions of a past-life incident, including the somatics. I was completely blown out of my mind afterwards, had a smile I couldn’t get off my face as I walked to the examiner. Didn’t the feel need to verify it historically. I had other NED sessions after the initial one, but none of them were as amazing as the first session. In fact, it always felt that I sort of “over-ran” NED, but that’s different story.
Re #2 – Not applicable to me.
Re #3 – There is an SHSBC course tape entitled “Between-Lives Implants” or something like that, which is (I think) semi-confidential (no OT3 data, but not BPI), though I listened to it very early on in Scientology. It didn’t frighten me. LRH mentions Venus in that Lecture, however I have no personal reality on it. Perhaps one of the Class 6 or above auditors here knows what I’m referring to.
I had an epiphany before even finding out about Scientology that you are a spiritual being that doesn’t live and die like a meat body; you simply are – no time. As the philosopher Rene Descartes once said, “I think, therefore I am.”
1.B
2. N/A
3. B
1.A Certainty since a read in a repair session in ARC SW.Had no idea before, except I wanted to go to OT VIII as fast as possible.No definite facts, just a strong perception and knowingness.This knowingness kept me in Scientology (in and out) when I was stopped going up the Bridge for 20 years.
Past Life Clear
2 N/A
3 B Have definite recall with perceptions of crash and birth immediately after
Folders have been searched for (or have they?) but with no name…
Audited with early processes before the Grade Chart so I don’t even know what “state” I achieved,though I am very much enjoying some abilities
1: a
2: N/A
3: a. I myself personally have “seen” this happening in one of my sessions, additionally I have a report of a close friend who told me sth very similar as to what I have “experienced”. I guess it was Mars, at least I seem to have arrived there through space and some data I later read about Mars lead me to the conclusion, that it had been Mars.
The comment of “jas 1” from Dec. 6, 2.59 pm (answering to “jonsty” Dec. 6, 9.31 a.m.) is exactly what I feel is true! KSW 1 states that we have the bank in common and that the bank is IDENTICAL! (Sorry that I didn´t quote the exact English wording, I am German, but I hope you know what I mean.)
1. a)
2. b)
3. a) & b) (uncertain of location in space)
” If these stations exist in the MEST universe on Mars and the Moon why have they not been observed and recorded by NASA, et al?”
They have been observed and photoed , before the pictures were made public the structures in the photos were edited out , the pictures were altered .
If you search on the internet for “structures on the moon ” , there is videos and leaked photos of buildings on the moon and on mars .on the internet , it is easy to find if you search for it .
4 or 5 years ago, I wrote some “Sci-Fi” about a space wagon doll bodied pilot with a deep background in “Biological Engineering”. A few months ago I found full, detailed verification of these things in a book by Lawrence R. Spencer called; “Roswell Alien Interview” and was amazed at the many data also confirming many LRH quotes. See for yourself. Just Google “Roswell Alien Interview”.
Gotcha.
Brian, I think you would like Thinking and Destiny by Percival. Check out the table of contents and pick and choose if your not up to reading the whole thousand pages. You can read it online at The Word Foundation.
poet laureate: here is the e-mail you can use to reach me: abacad51@hotmail.com Jacques
after doing the bridge, one of the things i did was go to monroe,
2 main programs, i liked it,it was fantasy, bobs daughter told me
it was in his mind a lot of his stuff, but if you have an extra 2,000 you can check it out.
Google “true colour of mars ” they (the MIB) even alter the colour of the surface and sky of mars . If they showed the true coulour the detail would come out , and we might see things we are not supposed to see .
Marty always has a plan – can’t wait for the results tabulation 😉
1. b) I recalled a couple of things in session (in Vancouver) that happened last life in Los Angeles. Verified for myself a couple of locations which matched up with my recall. Nothing that could be “proven.” But sufficient for my own certainty.
2. b) Guy comes to us for auditing after getting nowhere with CoS. He felt he’d gone clear LLT but had no data, just vague certainty. Was an excellent book one auditor, but no other training or auditing.
We did a 2WC session to reconstruct his auditing history. Check occur on all grades with persistent F/Ns and behavior in life showed full evidence of being grade IV release. DCSI with clear cog and expected needle motion. All evidence of being clear with good reality on that part of his track. Over to our AO and check occur on OT levels 1-7. Right on to NOTs which he completed to a great result. Now on solo NOTs and doing great.
During his stay he did the NED course. He completed the entire course including meter drills and practical in three weeks. Seems he was already a class VIII…just needed a refresher.
3. c) I believe it’s “other.” My personal experience from LLT is “b”, recall it quite well. My experience from recalling past between lives is quite variable. Sometimes lost in a dream world. Sometimes connect up with other “thoughts.” Sometimes observe and try to influence others in this space and time. Personally don’t get the idea there are any active implants around here now. People here seem to be very well trained to commit enough overts to keep themselves implanted (joke…sort of)
1) a
2) n/a
3) a or b
There is a book by Michael Newton – a counselling psychologist and hynotherapist who says in his book (“Journey of Souls” and after that “Destiny of Souls”) that he accidently stumbled on the “between lives” area of life. He has case studies of three decades where he finds similar stories being told independently by his patients. Some of it sounds like it could be an implant station as some of his patients describe a process where you are made to forget everything before you pick up your next body. I can’t vouch for the veracity of the studies, but it really does make for an interesting read.
As for proof of past lives…. well the earth has always been round but this was only “proved” in the past couple of hundred years. Lack of “scientific proof” does not mean its not true. In the last 100 years there have been a few people who have spoken of past lives: Hubbard, Newton, Monroe and Edgar Cayce, not to mention Buddhist and Hindu philosophies, which have been long ahead of the curve. There is also a book out ( I have not read it) by a medical doctor in the US who has recently had a near death experience and apparently also describes a between lives place. I would say a huge number of people believes (or knows, I should say) that we have had past lives.
Cayce (who died before the end of WW II) was a devout Baptist who would go into a trance- like state and describe the future and sometimes even past lives. When he awoke from this trance and was told what he had said, he himself did not initially believe that he had spoken of past lives. He came to predict his own future life in a couple of hundred years from now where he would tell people that he had been Edgar Cayce and this would arouse a lot of interest and doctors or some scientific folk would try to study him. Whatever anyone believes, it makes for an interesting read.
I think that knowing we come back, is an important factor in jacking up our responsibility levels as a group and individually. If we are all coming back here, then we must shape the environment and consciousness to make the world a lot more palatable than it is now. If not it will become a place where “the quick will envy the dead” (I think that is a biblical quote). Einstein said he could not predict what weapons would be used in the third world war, but he predicted that the fourth world war might be one involving stick and stones (implying that we are on the path to self destruction and wiping out civilisation).
One of the few academic texts ever written on this subject was by a man named Dr. Ian Stevenson. The name of the book is called “Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation.” If you are interested in this topic I would encourage you to read it.
For me, I truly don’t care if I lived before or not. Either way, I’m cool with it. But the truth is, I don’t know for certain one way or the other.
1) A. Many previous lives recalled. No external/objective confirmation outside of session.
2) N/A
3) C – other. Consciousness apparently exists across the dynamics with or without 1-D terminal (e.g. body), also across time and space.
Vic K.
According to the Dalai Lama, when crossing the between lives area, we are subjected to illusions so powerful that they seem to be more real than our current reality.
Awakened beings are supposed to be free from these illusions.
Wow, that’s funny. I had basically the same experience. Do you remember a bench on the hospital grounds? You can email me at a.dephillips@comcast.net.
1. A
2. Neither – However in 1989 I was on a Flag Internship. During morning muster we would announce our wins. There was a woman on her C/S internship. She was C/Sing a young boy who originated having received auditing in an earlier lifetime at Flag. They got the boy’s name from the earlier lifetime and were able to locate his pc folder. The events he described in session and what they found in his past life folder matched.
3. A and B
True story: my nephew goes up to my sister in law in the presence of my mom, he is 3 years old and says, “mommy, baby’s in the car and baby’s on the way.”
My mom and sister in law look at him in puzzlement.
Two weeks late he comes up to them again and said, “mommy, baby is in the house and baby is a boy.”
My mom said to Danielle,” you should go to the doctor and check this out.”
She went to doc, doc said she was pregnant. He was a boy who is my Godchild.
Interesting! A lot of hating going on (thumbs down) regarding this series of posts by different authors detailing past life experiences.
Is it possible we have some former Patricians,Senators and Soldiers weighing in here?
Patrician
1. A person of refined upbringing, manners, and tastes.
2. A member of an aristocracy; an aristocrat.
3. A member of one of the noble families of the ancient Roman Republic, which before the third century B.C. had exclusive rights to the Senate
Thanks, Glenn. That’s pretty enlightened. I was in WWI as well, I don’t even know which side, but pretty sure it was German. I was in the trenches, and it was hell. I came back soon after, and ended up being a last lifer. Went clear on the “What to Audit” (“History of Man”) stuff, in 1952. I was born this life in 1960. There was a lot of confusion in Scientology in 1959 – Nibs blew off then, a few others had issues with O/W. I did, too. Not sure what the heck happened, but here I am!
By the way, you share birthdays with my Dad, born on the same day in Michigan.
There is a short story called “The Whistler’s Room” by Paul Alverdes that is long out of print (I read it in an anthology), but is available on the Internet. It is an unbelievably great story about WWI vets convalescing after traumatic wounds to their necks and throats. Here’s a link to the PDF of the story. http://www.munseys.com/diskone/whistroom.pdf
Mark
Yes, I noticed that as well. Funny! It would be interesting (but not essential) to know who it is.
Yes, Stevenson has probably done the most extensive published, scientific research into this field out of the Univ. of Virginia. Jim Tucker at the same school has taken up the mantle of research, since Stevenson passed away a few years ago. Stevenson had also published a 4-volume expanded version of the above book, along with several others, which leave little doubt, objectively and scientifically, that past lives are real.
The only reason, imho, that this field hasn’t been thoroughly studied and investigated by the mainstream scientific community is due to the supposed “unscientific” stigma associated with the subject, and very little to do with the merits of the science and the evidence.
Thanks, Calvin. Yes – when Ron introduced the concept of auditing past lives in ’51 (and hinted at it in Science of Survival) the whole Dianetics world got split up – CADA broke off, the HDRF stole Science of Survival’s copyright (well, not stole it, but owned it).
Ron just went for it. People who are weak believe that people who promote and espouse concepts and beliefs that are controversial (to them) and not what they believe put forward the idea that the promoter really knows it is a fraud and does not really believe what they are saying. Certain leftists say that about Rush Limbaugh, or even Bill Buckley. Certain atheists believe that about certain Christians or other religious people. “They know it’s bullshit, but they duping these poor dumb bastards to rake in the coin!”
Isn’t that the viewpoint many if not most anti-Scientologists have about Ron? “He was a shyster. I charlatan! an opportunist! He pushed forward this amazing bullshit, and he knew it! He didn’t really believe this crap, but he preyed on weak minds.”
This is BS. Ron was sincere. He was not a fraudster. And I admire the hell out of him for driving down the path and reporting what he saw. He recognized that a lot of it was dub-in – but also found that a lot of it was not.
The whole purpose of diving into past lives was not to create a cult, but to help people get better, to do well. People addressed this stuff, and they got better.
Can you imagine what would happen if doing Dianetics, you go Earlier Similar, etc., and the PC comes up with an incident where he died in a flaming crash in WWII and the auditor told him “Son, that’s impossible! Give me the real incident!”
Dianetics would break right there – and did for the ’50s squirrels who tried to stop people from going past lives.
So, I don’t give a shit if it is real or not, or if it really happened or not. Running it helps people. So run it.
Mark
Thanks.
1. a)
2. b)
3. c) both a) and b), depending on the person’s karma and state of case
“Science is not equipped to measure the immeasurable.”
Science measures the immeasurable all the time. It does this by measuring the measurable surrounding the immeasurable, and building hypotheses based on the evidence found. This is how scientists eventually agreed on a universe expanding into an immeasurable and metaphysical fourth dimension, for example.
There is a strong set of scientific evidence for past lives. The only reason that mainstream science hasn’t taken the evidence seriously the way it has for ideas like “multiverses” and “string theory” for example, is because “past lives” are inherently thought to be “religious” and “unscientific”. And most mainstream scientists which want to be taken seriously, be accepted by their colleagues, receive grants, etc., feel compelled to eschew anything “spiritual” — at least publicly. In other words, in order to be a successful scientist in today’s world, one needs to act unscientifically.
Forever Lurker, you can find most of not all the answers to your criticisms right here in this blog. Start from the beginning.
As to LRH not being picked up on radar or satellite photos… Tech Dict:
THETAN, 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1)
2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59)
3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69)
4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55)
5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9)
6 . the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46)
7 . energy space production unit. (COHA, p. 247)
8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——)
9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK)
1 0 . a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )
Chris from Germany
I think you will find that Ron says that the STRUCTURE of the “bank” is identical. The content is certainly not. (even the idea that the structure is IDENTICAL in all aspects is not anything I find to be totally true for me) For one thing we each have our own unique viewpoint from which we view the universe. And I am not just talking about physical viewpoints here. For example; are you suggesting that the experience that you had at breakfast was the exact same experience that I had, and that we have the exact same memories of it? Or are you perhaps suggesting that you somehow also have access to my viewpoint of my breakfast, and you are totally unable to distinguish between the two sets of data. Have you somehow incorporated those concepts into your understanding?
To comment on my viewpoint of the shared experience scenario, I offer this: I have experienced, this lifetime, actually sharing a “mind” with someone. It was only for a few minutes, but it was totally real to me. There are other examples of shared consciousness and I have come to feel that one CAN somehow access a greater “mind”.
I also have considered that it is not entirely impossible that at some level there is actually only one “prime” consciousness with an infinite number of viewpoints. This concept has a ring of truth for me somehow.
That said, I have found that when I address things from my individual viewpoint I seem to be more able to sort out and direct the universe toward my goals. That is where my attention is mostly directed at this time.
Eric S
first line should read: … most of “if” not all…
Just an infestation of fleas, by the look of it, K. They seem
to jump onto practically any thing that moves, hoping to be
able to suck some blood (theta) out of it to sustain their
parasitic existence. Sit in the “DUH!” band of intelligence!
Just watch their little an”ticks” with this one, for example.
Thank you Crashing Upwards(love the name) I’ll google and check it out.
And I’m always advising Autobiography of a Yogi to anyone who wants to read about real OT phenomenon, past lifetime info, levitating, what the after life is like from those conscious and free enough to retain their memory from life to life in different realms, creating two bodies, finding reincarnating souls in new bodies, how the constant of light relates to a masters control over atomic structure, what is an Avatar, why do we get stuck in reincarnation, what are the basics of liberation from those that ARE liberated, what is the goal of life, is there a God, are we simply mud or something else.
And the way to directly perceive for oneself those things the five senses cannot.
Just a few trivial topics:-)
1. c (weakly, though)
2. NA
3. c
By default, you meet an old woman and she suggests you eat soup served in a bowl. If you obey her, you forget about this lifetime. If you are a Christian, you may see Jesus. If you are a Muslim, you may see Mohammed. Most people on this Planet Earth are too religious to resist the soup or the like.
The mechanism that makes you forget about your current lifetime before reincarnation is located in your own mind. Even those who know this mechanism have never seen in the scene someone else disobeying the human figure serving the bowl of soup.
1A
2NA
3C
In one of the basic books Ron says that MEST has quantity and that Theta has only quality. That has been puzzling for me quite a while, because if you think of it, it’s very true.
Theta, having no mass or wavelength, being a nothingness, has no quantity.
That means that you and I can not be two different thetans.
For practical purposes we call it that way, but it’s not accurate.
There is a quantity of bodies, carrying different forms of “animal life energy” (GEs), but there is not a quantity of thetans.
Neither are we all one, because that would still be a quantity.
Theta is just a quality, which in other fields of philosophy is often referred to as “consciousness.”
But theta can assume different viewpoints.
And the viewpoints can identify themselves with life forms from the present as well as from the past.
Theta (“any thetan”) can assume any viewpoint and identify itself with any past identity.
I have had several (very beneficial) sessions in which I “remembered” being Julius Ceasar. But I’m sure I’m not the only one having mocked up being Julius Ceasar.
The fact that it was very beneficial doesn’t mean anything about being “true” or “not true”. Anyone who understands mock-up processing knows that it also could have been beneficial if I had mocked up being Napoleon.
I know that this reasoning is not in line with a lot of other things that Ron has said. But after doing my OT III it became clear to me that the Ron from 1952 was not the same as the later Ron.
Yes, you can remember “your” past life. And it is also possible to find evidence of these past lives. But the question is, who are YOU?
Thanks Gunner. There seem to be quite a few videos on Youtube, of (usually) children recalling past lives. Here is a site by and about one of the researchers who has written a couple of books on the subject:
http://www.childpastlives.org/
1b
2a, b
3 do not know for sure.
In addition, as I have seen some references to OT III here (plus I also
want to set the record straight with some of the posters on Tony Ortega’s
blog, if that is possible) I have met 2 people who had extensive reality
on this level. They were not Scientologists and they had NO experience
with the subject. They had not been on the net and one of them had
never touched a computer/laptop. I did not question them in any way,
they originated these things on their own and I did nothing to add to
the conversation. Personally, I totally got rid of a crippling disease by
auditing OTIII to full completion. (Dr Denk had my records from 1990.
His final advice was “keep auditing” as all else failed).
Some data was so unreal to me I had to verify it. Such as, I had no idea there were Jewish warriors at one time in history! I didn’t believe it. Did the research, it was there! Google “Jewish Warriors”, you will be amazed! On solo auditing when specific names became available, that was easy to verify. Maybe not with a “John Smith”, but when you get something like, a ” Lafcadio Hearn” , ……… If specific names are coming up especially with hats that can be confirmed like, Lieutenant blahdy blah from ____ first airborn” . Yes, these can be confirmed. Because on the solo auditing you are asking for specifics. And there are plenty of specifics within the last several hundred years that can be verified.
Beyond that, the emeter reads are verification. Worked well for me. 🙂
The meter verifies what I am thinking and saying.
Nice photo!
1. a
Dozens of occurences on Standard Dianetics (1976-77). Overran Clear with NED. Attested Clear in 1980 (DCSI) – Floating TA.
State of Clear invalidated in 2000 with enforced CCRD at SHUK. Fortunately, no further NED run on me. “Re-attested” Clear followed by crappy Sunshine RD (total waste of time and money).
I ran many past lives incidents during Standard Dianetics. Didn’t much care about content or meaning of incidents. What was important was CHARGE OFF the case. Blew most of the shit contacted ON INSPECTION.
This was later invalidated on OT IV. Robot-auditor insisted on overrunning everything when I WAS BLOWING STUFF LEFT AND RIGHT ON INSPECTION (thanks Davey – may you rot in hell). Rehabbed this on OT V with an INDY auditor. Am on OT V now and doing absolutely great. I pity the poor pre-OTs who are getting butchered in the the Co$.
IMHO, past live recollections are only as valuable as the amount of charge you blow off. Fuck the content or meaning, focus on charge OFF the case.
I remember my first day in Scn. I remember my first session. I remember the day my grandson was born and my daughter got married. I remember the day I lost my virginity. I remember the day I attested Clear. But do I remember EVERYTHING in this lifetime? No. And do I remember everything in my past lives? Nope. And do I care? No. Whether I got beheaded in Third Century China or vaporized 54 trillion years ago on Planet Shkrumpf isn’t important. What’s important is that I ran the incident and got the charge OFF.
Now, getting the charge OFF is SUBJECTIVE. If after I ran the incident, I feel better, great. But do I have to believe the incident did actually happen? No.
But I did discharge the incident and felt better. So, to me, this means the incident did happen. To me, it means it is real. But, hey, it’s still SUBJECTIVE.
Am I going to go all figure-figure about it? NOPE.
If by running what looks like past life incidents I blow charge OFF, that’s good enough for me. I’m a simple soul.
2. I have some evidence that my grandson is my departed father. Nothing 100% conclusive, but there are clues. When my dad was dying I told him that my daughter was about to give birth and I told him to go to the hospital where she was going to deliver her kid.
After my grandson was born and began to speak, he definitely recognized my mother and addressed her as he did when he was married to her. My mother (not a scientologist) was flabbergasted. So were we. There have been other indicators that he was my father. Is it important? Is it a big deal? I don’t know. Personally, I don’t think so.
We’re not going to raise him as a scientologist or indoctrinate him. I don’t think one needs to indoctrinate beings. Either they are aware of their own immortality or they aren’t. It’s a personal journey. It can’t be enforced.
Most of us, on this blog, have been aware that we are immortal beings before we got into scientology.
Scientology, if applied wisely, is just a small step towards native state.
Honestly completing all the existing levels on the current Bridge is a good start. But, after that, we still have a long, long way to go. Isn’t that exciting?
3. b
OT VIII was supposed to handle whole track amnesia. We know now that this was a lie. The current OT VIII has about as much value as a couch session with the shrink next door.
Here’s a thought. We drop the body. We’re TOTALLY AWARE AND IN PT. We’re IN CONTROL. We locate a good family with a mom about to give birth. We pick up the infant’s body with NO memory loss and with ALL the accumulated wisdom of our previous life. Now, wouldn’t THAT be interesting?
Let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work.
I rather want to know than believe. Anything that happens after we die is in my humble opinion pure believing and speculation.
Ziba, if you’ve ever left your body and seen it from an exterior view with full perception, then you know that it’s not you. If you’ve ever experienced that, then you also know that you will live on after the body dies.
As to what any of us do between bodies, I guess it depends upon the person. Some remember those interludes, and some don’t.
You made me think of this, also wherein Hubbard decades ago left behind words of encouragement for the day we refuse to accept mad clowns as leaders :
“The problem of mind is a problem of control.
It’s a problem of direction.
It’s a problem of intention, of goals.
Always present in any human situation is the human mind.
And if it can only really see at a distance and it can’t look at itself running up close and if it’s having a rough time in general, starting and stopping and pressing the right pieces of metal, I’d say a civilization with this as its primary malfunction wouldn’t get too far.
Well, that is the main mystery.
The main mystery on the human track is not what was or where was the missing link.
The mystery on the track is not “Where is hell?”
The mystery about Man is how, without knowing anything about his mind, he could continue to go on to some degree prospering and how he’s still here.
That’s the mystery.
How, without any instruction manuals, just bungling through some time or another, accepting mad clowns as leaders, Man still is here on Earth.
That’s the most fantastic.
Yet he is here.
And as long as he’s here, he can be made to continue here, particularly if he had a good and workable instruction manual.
It would mean a great deal, if he had the modus operandi of how and what his mind was doing—how it was doing and what it was doing and how to make it do that or something else.
You would have quite an advance in civilization.
This is certain.
But where you have Man already being right more than he’s being wrong, and then in possession of the materials which would make him even more right or be able to invent much greater wrongnesses, you’d have an entirely new start.
“It’s a quantum step rather than an evolutionary step,” somebody the other day said about Scientology.
“But I believe if Man has been this right, this often, over this many ages, he’ll still be more right than the atom bomb, and he’ll still be more right than the portended George Orwell, 1984.
He’ll still be more right than this.
And he will succeed and somehow or another he’ll cover this bridge.
One of the best ways to get through such a period would be to have an operating manual of how the mind works.
And I think we have that thing today in Scientology.”
Taken from the lecture Operation Manual for the Mind, given on the 11th of May 1955.
I love this, excellent replies.
I’d like to add one further comment regards this survey:
The Radical Corporate Cult, under the tutelage of that sociopath dwarf and his PTS and SP minions, never could figure out what to do with folks like me (late ’40s LA) other than to ignore, not-is or outright invalidate.
If I’ve ever given the impression that I harbor an utter disdain for POB and what he’s done, as well as what he represents, well there it is. POB is the standard-bearer for ultimate suppression and degradation.
And yeah, I’ve even met the sawed-off psychotic, circa ’91 or so. He’s an evil-intended lunatic without compare.
I can also assure anyone, or even any naysayer, LRH really cared about people and individuals. Any doubt? Read the CS series. And then read Ron’s magnum opus, The Way to Happiness.
The Copenhagen Agreement.
“I think the whole past life thing is proven in auditing. Maybe not to a die hard skeptic, but for someone willing to look.”
Exactly, Chris, very well put!
Sorry typo, I meant to say “See retirees (people that retire) moving towards warm climates.
Several years ago I was riding with my father in his car and I happened to mention to him that I was in the French underground in WW II as a French Patriot named Jean Pierre Ledoux.
Dad swerved off the road and almost hit a tree. Now parked by the side of the road, we began our chat. He was now a bit lighter in the face and he looked at me as if I had changed his life for him. He said to me, “That explains everything!” I said, “What do you mean?” He went on to say that for the first three years of my life I spoke nothing but fluent French. Having no memory of this, I asked him to tell me about it.
He went on to say that from very early on the first words out of my mouth were in French. As a matter of fact the first phrases out of my teeth were, “Ou suis-je(where am I?)”; “Qui etes vous?”(who are you?) ; “Quel est cet endroit?”(what is this place?)
Needless to say to hear these French words coming out of my father’s mouth was astonishing! My father was an English Lit major in college and his memory of incidents was amazing. He had had his own out of body experience as a child, so this past lives, exteriorization stuff was very real to him. Hearing this as a child still amazed both my parents and they couldn’t understand it until my explaining it to him at this point. The relief that showed on his face was warming for me and I could see that a significant mystery had finally resolved for him and this brought us even closer together as Father and Son and as friends.
I am a bit teary eyed over this because a couple of years previous he had learned how to Book One Audit and he did quite well. He audited staff and really enjoyed it.
When I first got into Scientology, and as I spoke to him on the phone he fumed about it. I hung up on him and then called him back and said, “Can we discuss this as adults?” He said that maybe he should try and read the Dianetics book. Well, he did and a short time later he called me back with a bit of a choke in his voice and said, “You know, reading that book made me realize that I should have raised you differently.” Can you ever forgive me?” I told him that I didn’t know how it could have been any better, but if that was how he felt then of course I would!” We were both in tears by this time and both wished we’d had cartons of Kleenexes to hand.
I know with absolute certainty that this experience shows that at least two people have experienced the thrill of past life existence. I had had many more experiences of this.
One other in particular was when I experienced an epileptic seizure in 1971. A neurologist at a university confirmed my condition as grand mal epilepsy, a condition that was permanent. Some years later I found it necessary to resolve my condition and received auditing to handle this ruin. While running an incident in the past I found an earlier similar incident to that which I experienced in 1971 and in a flash I knew that the condition was gone. I went to see a certified neurologist to check on my condition and he determined that as far as the tests he performed on me were concerned, I never had epilepsy. It was now gone where before it was ever present.
At this point, there are no doubts or reservations that LRH’s Tech works. Always has, and when used Standardly, always will!
I like that you reference the C/S series. Yes – practical wisdom, that is, and a ton of caring.
I get ya regarding measuring the immeasurable by extrapolating a hypothesis out from something that can be measured.
It’s similar to using imaginary numbers in mathematics to compute the source of an energy wave. We can’t directly observe the source but we can describe its possible characteristics by measuring the wave’s characteristics.
I’ve just always thought that running earlier-similar incidents was done no matter where it went to on the track because it works. For me, past life incidents were more incidental to the process of auditing.
I think the true genius of Scientology is contained in the lower grades and Dianetics – These levels gradiently peel away the layers of data and considerations about how one actually thinks about things. If you’re wanting a complete tour of how you think and why you think that way so that you can be more at cause in life, there is nothing that even remotely compares to this part of the bridge.
In my staff career I audited dozens of grades and came to realize that significance is significance, the track is the track – but all the real action in any game I’m playing is right now. LOL
Think Alfred E. Newman “What? Me Worry?”
1. What degree of proof do you have of the existence of previous lifetime identities of your own?
a) Knowingness by virtue of memories or perceptions, validated and acknowledged, or not, only by e-meters and auditors.
b) Verified historically recorded events and/or locations out of session, after the fact of recalling (having had no previous education or information about them).
3. What happens to thetans between lifetimes on this planet?
a) Reports to implant stations for forgetting treatment, then gets dumped back on earth. (If so,where are the implant stations located)?
I only have recalled incidents with other nefarious creatures which were taken up in much auditing, but am not clear on if they implant us to forget. (Maybe that’s why I don’t recall! Lol)
b) Exteriorizes, cruises around for a while (or not), then enters another body?
These are my experiences and recalls many times, and this makes more sense to me based on studies in Buddhism, Judaism, etc.
1. a & b
2. Was someone who was audited experimentally by LRH in early days. Nothing was done to verify. Considering the person’s dynamics and level of person’s subsequent involvement in Scn, I believe it was true – at least on some level.
3. c
Interesting comments. I have just a couple more.
Firstly, Marty, if you are writing a book and want another verification I may have one. A very good friend’s daughter was getting auditing. She was 15. It was going nowhere. At one point she spit out a name, her auditor went over to AOLA to check it out. They apparantly got the folders and a couple of weeks later she started NOTs. This would have been around 1997 or 98.
The whole family is still on Co$ lines, but I might be able to get some comm in there with several people who were on the line to confirm.
Another one: My daughter grew up christian.
Several years ago she was in big trouble spiritually, but refused to get auditing. She went to a hypnotherapist, did some past life regression with recall of a last life death incident. Apparantly got the charge off and now is doing quite well and has a favorable opinion of past-track.
What do the following individuals have in common? Ralph Waldo Emerson, Plato, Walt Whitman, Pythagoras, Kipling, St. Augustine, Philo of Alexandria, Spinoza, Leibniz, Schopenhauer, Louisa May Alcott, Goethe, Leonardo da Vinci, Bruno, Kant, Blake, Schiller, Thoreau, Browning, Flaubert, Tolstoy, Sibelius, Gandhi, Jung, Churchill, Arthur C. Clarke, and Benjamin Franklin. They all believed in reincarnation. Interesting…..
In short, the Miscavige led cult and his ‘Red Tagged’ regime has become the antithesis of that truthful and honest adage, “We come back”.
Given his track record, I strongly suspect Pope Smallballs hopes and prays we’re ‘one lifers’.
Oh boy! Is he in for a rude awakening!
A whole ton of reality there for me! Thanks Mark!
What a refreshing shift in reality, thank you!
Very interesting thoughts, indeed.
This thought of yours fascinated me: “Theta, having no mass or wavelength, being a nothingness, has no quantity.
That means that you and I can not be two different thetans.”
Does that imply that we are one? And, if so, is that not a quantity?
You got a lucky “break” that time bro’
David Icke talks a lot about the influence of the Moon, Mars and Saturn in the manipulation of mankind perceptions, etc and yes he talks about an electric grid, which goes from the Moon and involves Mars. http://youtu.be/IV7PNpeYbgw
Thank you for these ideas. I have made a cursory look and will continue to follow up out of curiousity. They are interesting, but I do not find anything conclusive. The claims by unverified authors of NASA editing are not any more convincing than the possibility that those making the claims have done their own PhotoShop editing.
On the other hand, the possibilities are endless. I have yet to come across a whit of successful evidence aimed at disproving the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. However, innumerable claims and suggestive evidence point to the truth of its existence, including extensive carbohydrate dating, which is illegal in many states due to the controversy of biopolymer binding of carbohydrates and proteins.
Nancy
Nice one, Tom.
Karry and I knew a kid with a similar story at Flag. His name was Tony. He was 13 years old, OTIII and in CMO. He told me that when he was about 7 and living in Colorado or Montana or someplace, he realized who he was and looked up the nearest Scientology mission and called and told them he had been on lines at Flag last lifetime. Someone from the mission called his parents and handled them to take him to Flag.
Long story short, soon he recovered his accounts and after exhausting them, joined the S.O. His parents got into Scn too.
WH: “Honestly — the only way to live ones life is right here, right now.”
I agree – if you’re adequately in the “here and now”. Depending on the level of restim one is in, that may well be easier said than done.
For myself:
1) A) contacted an indisputable incident in session
B) went to the location – which matched memory
2) PC claims of PL’s were routinely ignored. Sometimes CS ack’d, but ignored.
3) B)
Tom,
I also fall into this category and had my ‘Clear Cognition” verified numerous times. This was because I was a trained C/S and did a lot of FES work for the AO on many of the “verify they are really clear” evolutions that are the penchant of He Who Likes to Invalidate. They certainly didn’t like the Date and Location, even though LRH said it was possible, but as I said what they wanted to hear, and all the other phenomena were present, I attested and withstood many “checks”, to make sure it was true.
I left in the SO in 2003 and $ofS 2009, but managed to avoid being hauled in for more invalidation under the guise of “Standard Tech”. I am pretty sure I would be told today I wasn’t clear. But I don’t care what some tosser has to say. I know what I am and I am moving up the OT levels, which is something I didn’t do in the church.
Dani, Marty responded to my question, “are you collecting data for book # 3, he said yes. So assume results will be in it.
PS I truly admire what you and Tami have done, thanks.
ML, Midge
One more thing: misread the year of your birth. Apologies on that. However, there was no election in Germany in 1934, and the banning of opposition parties didn’t begin until around the time of your birth.
To WindWalker
Thank you for your comment. I am getting the idea that we talk about the same thing somehow: “there is actually only one “prime” consciousness, with an infinite number of viewpoints” is exactly what I mean, when I say that the bank, we have in common, is IDENTICAL.
The experience I might have at breakfast – was it actually my idea to have butter and jam? Or sausage and cheese? Or did I pick up the idea of somebody else´s mind / creation? At least I can say that it never had come to my mind (alone) to “create” cheese in the first place, so that I can eat it now…
Another comparison: Feels like all we Thetans (of the same dimension) are watching the same film. One chooses the identity of Winnetou, the other one of Old Shatterhand, the other one of the poor Indian dying, the other one the beingness of a horse or a tree. So we all can “remember” having “been” Winnetou – and all exact datato his “life” – but actually we have all seen the same movies.
And if you choose to live a Winnetou-life and another one does so, too, and both of you start playing the “film” starting at the same film-szene, you will wonder how very much the same the other person will think or act like you. Common “mind” – but in reality it´s all pictures. Common mind = common picture gallery / same movies we have in store. And to erase the frightening parts of them, you just have to go over the film over and over again, until it´s so boring that you won´t have anymore stuck attention on it – and step out of the beingness of the dying Indian and choose to be the surviving heroe from there on 😉
My “life” which I (on my first dynamic) am living right now is actually only a “role”, too, only the Beingness I chose. Me, the real thing, Thetan, is not getting older, not moving in space etc. But, once you chose a role, play it and have fun with it! (Joy of creation) 😉
Can you follow or am I getting too strange now?
1) b & c
2) b → my “PC” during a False Data Stripping session, without e-meter, went to past-lives during session. The VGIs were evident, and he had great wins as a result.
3) a & b
→ [a] for me, one station was in the present-day area of Kashmir, north India, north-west Nepal area. Another near the Arizona-California border. I have done the [b] “cruising/floating” several times.
• I am an original Dianeticist, Scientologist + Sea Org member in a new body; my Scientology & SO experience straddles 2 lifetimes.
• In 1994 (i think), the International LRH PPRO (Personal PR Office) had the marvelous idea of organizing an LRH photography exhibition at the CC INT manor. My friend Jean-François Dubreuil was in CMO PAC’s LRH PPRO (yet slept in my derilict dorm in Lebanon Hall instead of the posh sleeping quarters of the CMO crew). He had helped set up and host the exhibition. That same evening he told me about it, and mentioned that he had seen his past-life person in one of the picture, but didn’t give any details, only that he recognized himself. He said it was quite a cool phenomenon! He was beaming, his TA was floating, and couldn’t fall asleep.
When it was time for the Hollywood Guarantee Building crew to visit, I went with heightened interest. As soon as I got there, I didn’t follow the crowd cluster who all started at the beginning. I dashed out on my own. Mandy Pirak from CMO IXU immediately perceived me, turned around, split from her friends & the crowd, and started to follow me. It was so funny to observe. I directed my attention at JFD and zoom, I went through the exhibit maze like a shot arrow, and stopped DEAD BANG in front of a photograph of a line of people at the St-Hill Manor. My attention focused on a woman in the line. I felt a strong buzz of energy in me. I showed the pic to Mandy and pointed “That’s J-F!” I told her. I went exterior and it was fun! The phenomena was really cool! *Later that evening, back to my dorm at PAC, I took my “twin” friend J-F aside, looked him in the eyes and told him: ” I saw you and recognized you in the picture at the CC Int Photo Exhibition, pretty woman, short body, shoulder-length dark hair, short 60s dress, etc.” He confirmed my find! We were ecstatic 😀
I continued the tour and again BANG! I stopped DEAD in front of another picture. I found my own past-life self, standing in the “at-ease” position in Sea Org uniform with the ship crew at muster on a dock, with The Commodore (LRH) in front briefing us. Marvelous phenomenon! 😀
This is all VERY TRUE and VERY REAL to me.
• I have confirmed locations just for myself while on trips in the USA, in Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Gettysburg, the Harvard University campus, New England states, Southern States, California, Phoenix, and more. I am Canadian. Yet, as soon as I cross the border into the USA, I feel so much at home and at ease.
Walking on the Gettysburgh battle field in the summer of 2009 was quite a cool experience for me. I did not die there, but I re-traced some of my steps on the field and it was quite the phenomena! The end of that war meant a lot to me. Two days later, as I was surfing the internet at a hotel, I stumbled onto the Scientology-cult.com site. Interesting!
• As a young child, I mentionned my past lives several times but the Catholic adults around me invalidated my originations. As a French-Canadian youth, I could read, speak and understand some English. My parents, grand-parents and relatives didn’t believe me and invalidated me.
• My mother died in March, 1984. The thetan is now my step-cousin Andréanne. She waited and picked up the next baby on my step-mother’s side of the family in 1989, shortly after I had re-discovered Scientology. She knows that I was her son, and the phenomena of rebirth, but can’t express it since her whole family & relatives are Catholic, and adamant on the one-life belief. I recognized her the moment her parents brought the newborn to show us. The experience was quite theta. Every time we meet at family functions, we have that immediate knowingness & understanding.
• I had numerous vivid recollections, especially when listening to LRH lectures. I could re-feel the chair i was sitting in while in the audience, the air on my skin, the smell of the rooms, I could see LRH and the people move about. I have full knowingness that I was in attendance.
Janet Reitman’s book Inside Scientology brought back so many memories to me. My TA floated so many times, I had to stop reading and take breaks to “settle down”. I had difficulties falling asleep because I was too keyed out and happy. I need to re-borrow it from the public library and finish reading it. Θ
In this recording http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/church-response.shtml from Tampa Bay Times, The truth rundown, spokesman Tommy Davies confirms 50 instances of physical abuse at the very top of Scientology management.
He also hints a kind of cover-up: – Marty knows we cant talk about it.
What’s this “blackout” all about?
ML/A
1. A & B
2. Not as an auditor or c/s but two children have originated such things to me.
3. A, B, or C depending upon the condition, case, and confront level of the thetan when they drop their body. The “other” possibility is that the act of separating from the body or other similar circumstances could restimulate or “key in” earlier implants which cause the thetan to “forget”.
Ronnie, me bro’ telling it like it is! Best way of course!
Your closing point on “those interludes” is, as you say,
dependent on the person. And that can certainly have very much to do with their inherent memory, which as
we know, CAN be enhanced, through deliberate practice
of recalls, ARC straightwire, memory training techniques, etc. Dub in’s are obviously excluded. I am putting a case here for the possible inclusion of “MEMORY” as a topic by our raconteur host, BTW! ( Hint! How about it, Marty?)
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Regarding 2.a) per your answer above, you sate that you know of one incident of a pc ‘remembering’ former identity – and his pc folders found in the UK’
Marty’s survey states under 2.a) If you have witnessed as a C/S or auditor the return of a Scientologist in a new body after death, which of the following applies:
a) We located his or her old folders and carried on with no glitches precisely where he or she left off from the previous lifetime.
You did not state that this is exactly what happened to this PC. Will you please clarify what glitches you had in your answer a little bit more? Thank you.
Jack , i have the same hobby as you , buildings things that i remember , there were simple devices i remember that don’t exist in the world today , so i am working on building some of them .
There were simple free energy devices , Devices powered by gravity . For example the Bessler Wheel , it was so simple that Johann Bessler thought he would not get any money for it .
I saw the bessler wheel working in germany back then , 300 years ago and it was for real , a genuine perpetual motion machine :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Bessler
1 A
2 N/A
3 C Just Visiting
Where is LRH?
1. A. When I was 9 I recalled delivering a baby asa midwife when I had never heard the term before. As an adult this lifetime I have delivered several babies, and the mechanics are precisely what I had recalled.
2. No
3. Don’t know, did audit some implant station incidents that were hilarious.
An excellent answer, and I will pitch in on this thread in the hopes that its still being read by the Lurker, to say this .. as a trained Auditor, Lurker, you surely know a few maxims .. these are maxims LRH himself lived by, as well. Whats real for you is whats real, and so on.
Theta’s control of the universe involves a great deal of work involving Facsimiles, which in the theta universe are like tree’s: “You can build tables out of them, but watch out if one falls on you!” 🙂
Was Ron really ‘wrong’ about Venus? It is difficult to tell in hindsight, and if we want the Popular Knowledge That Is Known To Be True facts, well I guess .. he didn’t. But, what was the *purpose* of his demonstrating that reality, in the taped lecture, and the series of lectures it was part of?
An Auditor doesn’t invalidate his preclears’ reality, or else he’s not Auditing, but instead participating in the creation of case. Higher-order concepts governing the nature of Scientologys’ approach to Theta and its Virtues retain no less respectability for the space-opera descriptions of things, unless We All Say It Is So.
I, personally, immensely enjoy those lectures and all of LRH’s taped lectures for the pure and utter Theta of the Man. He really hit the ball out of the park when it comes to getting the problems of undescribed Theta phenomenon, described and then solved. Space-Opera has its place in Auditing.
Super cool JFG. Ca fait drole lire le message car je connait assez bien toute les Dubreuil, Marie-France, Philippe surtout et Therese. Keep on trucking!
I heard that too from Pat Bromley.
1.a (when I was very young, I have heard here and there “we have one life to live and bla…bla…bla” and was saying to my self “impossible, I have lived before! Auditing session confirm my thought)
2.n/a
3.a (long time ago, report to implant station, located… not sure) & b
Please help me to understand what you are trying to communicate here. what I got: everyone who has disagreed with you here are less then you. not only that but they are trying to take your theta away ( is that even possible;) so they can squeek out a pathetic life for them selves.
I do not follow? could it be that people are free to disagree or feel that it might not be the time or place to go that deep into things that clearly have an impact on, at the very least, the people here?
If you are interested I would be happy to tell you why I clicked dislike on one of the posts. For me, while reading these posts, I sorta started to feel full of mass and at one point I even got sorta dizzy and even think my eyes might have gotten a bit blury. I recognized this and looked at it for what it was. My first thought was NOT what are they trying to do, I really understood that you guys were just taking-bout-stuff. none the less I did not like the way I felt so I clicked no likey. I believe that this, in part, alowed me to leave it right there and not take it with me.
Later that day I just chalked it up to too much info. I do not think it was your intention nor was i blaming. I was certinly not attacking.
one last thought on the matter. I did not put the btns there. they are there for a reason. I also understand that sometimes a explanation is needed.
make it a good day.
Dylan
I beg to differ….just googled it:
German referendum, 1934
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A referendum on merging the posts of Chancellor and President was held in Germany on 19 August 1934,[1] after the death of President Paul von Hindenburg seventeen days earlier. The German leadership sought to gain approval for Adolf Hitler’s assumption of supreme leadership. The overwhelmingly positive result of this referendum allowed Hitler to claim public support for his activities as the Führer and de facto Head of State of Germany. In fact, he had assumed these offices and powers immediately upon von Hindenburg’s death and used the referendum to legitimate this move, taking the title Führer und Reichskanzler (Führer and Chancellor).
I posted a video of a presentation he gave above.
I am not sure if my comment before went through so, in short, why does this matter? I think it is a silly distraction and beside the point in every way,
I mean it dsitracts from problems and engagement in this life. If you were Celopatra in a past life or your baby was your owner and you were a slave 200 yrs ago, so what? It doesn’t change my grief for the specific people I have lost and it doesn’t change anything if our souls are recycled in some great cosmic spin cycle. If it makes you feel better about loss and death, so be it, but now get on with living your life and not deciding if you were Napoleon or have some past-life connection that makes you love all things Italian.
“I’ve just always thought that running earlier-similar incidents was done … because it works”
Agree with you on that one.
But on a macro (societal) level, I guess I still hold out hope that science and scientists will one day shed their fear of investigating the evidence for past lives. Some very good evidence does exist — and its far from being “just anecdotal”. If mainstream scientists truly approached the subject objectively, I think we’d see a major paradigm shift towards non-brain-centered consciousness.
What I really want to know is, where is Elvis?
1. A
2. N/A
3. B
Chris
Thank you for your response.
I am following your thinking on this. There are some very interesting possibilities aren’t there?
When you posted your original comment I was not sure if you had really thought it over much. I can see that you have explored the concept as more than just a passing thought.
There are phenomena that become apparent when one looks into this area that seem to be somewhat explained by what you are talking about. I Feel that a being’s ability to assume viewpoints, adopt whole personalities or valences one has just glimpsed, view someone else’s pictures, see pretty much any incident of one’s own from any angle, etc. may fall within this concept. There are many phenomena that seem to be pointing in that direction ultimately.
Another possible explanation for some of these things might simply be that a being is infinitely creative about such things. I like this concept too. The truth?… maybe both, or parts of each, or some other thing entirely, but I think it is interesting to be open to these concepts and be willing to experience the possibilities.
If, or when, one finds some phenomena on their case that resolves by viewing it from one of these viewpoints, be it true or not, being willing to entertain the possibility will have served its purpose.
And as to “getting a bit strange” I have not found it to be true yet. Your concepts are easy for me to follow as you have presented them well.
Thank you
EricS
Chris
Just a note here in case you are not aware of it.
You can place your comments below that of another person by simply clicking on the word “reply” that is at the end of the line of grey type following that person’s name.
Have fun…
Eric S
1) a. various instances.
In one case I had received a checkout on some theory material in Flag and was flunked for giving a wrong definition. However I knew, that the given definition was correct. I looked through the dictionaries and couldn`f find it until I looked in the big Oxford English Dictionary (the one with the microscopic small print). I found that definition I had been so certain about. However, it was out of use since the 18th century.
2) b When I started on my OT 3 a child of a friend appoached me, asked me if I had really started on OT 3 and when I confirmed that, gave me an intruction regarding the auditing of that level that only someone who knew it could give. Back then these data had not left the CofS, that child was only 4 years old and there was no person in the environment who could have told something about the content of this level.
3) I had been into meditation, tibetan, but also other styles. This was in the beginning when I came into Scientology, had no auditing, only done some TRs. One day I made one experiment.
I want to warn anyone to repeat that. It lead to the ONLY moment in this life where I had complete panic.
The esperiment: I wanted to find out what happened to me when I fall asleep. Being trained in staying conscious through the prior practices I tried to stay conscious while falling asleep. My perceptios shifted at some point and I perceived as myself, not as a body, to move through some kind of tunnel of different light with enourmous speed. (Felt somewhat like a high speed elevator.) Short before arriving – I felt/knew I would arrive at some destination. It felt like Venus – I sensed that WHEN I arrived I would loose control and that this may be the end of that body back on earth. I felt most intense panic and took control, stopped it just in time and oriented myself back in the vicinity of the body.
Many years later I heard Ron’s lectures about between life incidents and I think this is what I had been steering toward.
1a
2 N/A
3B
Hello Marty,
This is an unsual question for the “commun des mortel”. Thank for asking it. Because I postulate that people wake up from their dreams or leave them…
I was in Phoenix with Ron in Arizona. There was such a great randomity with manu interests in action… I would like to find my past life folders (I know the dates end my previous name). Do you have an answer how to find them ?
This my answer to the questions :
1. a)
2. N/A
3. b and other (native planet where a body was gaged).
One more thing …
While I was doing my Indoc Course, as I was listenning to an LRH lecture. A few moment I was in the room where LRH was giving le lecture. Why ? I was there the first moment ! Amazing !
1. A
2. Not applicable
3. B Anxious about operating without a body a thetan takes the next bus that shows up.
Marty, throughout my 18 years in Scientology it was always a known fact that PCs were advised not to discuss their auditing case with others. This includes one’s whole track incidents and past lives.I’m sure it’s still what PCs are told and what scientologists believe to be fact but is this based upon any particular reference?
By doing this survey, are you saying that none exists and it’s fine for people to talk about that which they have been indoctrinated into believing they must not talk about? I know you asked for ABC answers but, as you can see, some are provding more and specific information about their track. Is there no policy or HCOB addressing this matter of talking about one’s ‘case’ or one’s past lives to others? There seems to have been verbal data about this. I couldn’t find any reference but I don’t have access to all exists.
Did it also occur to you that some may not answer the survey because they may feel they are violating this ‘no discussing case’ issue? Or that they didn’t get the recall expected in auditing and are embarrassed about it.? Just curious
Great blog topic Marty! Thanks!
1. a
I was born cranky. My earliest this life recall is of my mom and dad oohing and awwwing over the “cute widdle itty-bitty baybee” as I looked on from another part of the room and tried to shout “Hey! I’m over here, &^%$#@!!!!” It P.O.ed me that they didn’t “see” the “real” me! Eventually I became coterminous with the body, more or less. I’ve had various experiences of exteriorization in this lifetime.
I always felt matter-of-factly about the possibility of “past lives” in a sense, but never felt focused on ideas of “reincarnation” because those were tied to being an effect, and I never felt like I was “in” a body all the time. The important consideration was that I existed in my own right.
What was real to me is the feeling that I always or at least for a very long time really existed apart from bodies/other identities. A sci-fi fan from an early age, some of the one-life, “evolved from mud” theories always rang false for me, and the philosophies having a life-energetic/spiritual component rang true. The “Man is just an animal”, “evolution of the brain” theories in school seemed ridiculous.
I believe several people in my extended family felt a certainty of continuous existence.
Much of the auditing I received beginning with Life Repair keyed out various facsimiles from past tracks. I think had I received some NED I would have run whole track incidents to good effect.
2. N/A, but I had an intuition based on circumstantial evidence that one of my daughters had been a person from the Russian settlement in Korea where I was born.
3. b or c, having choices, would be my ideal scene. I have no other certain knowledge but I suspect pre-existing implants can key-in at body death, whether or not there are any active implant stations around.
1. a) self and PCs
2. no data
3. a) 16th century – Spanish Pyrenees – per my knowledge not in function any more
b) and c)
1)a Yes.
I believe in whatever it takes to discover your higher self. I’ve audited thousands of hours and I’ve heard every story imaginable.
It’s what you get out of it. One thing is I always look at the being, not the body, whenever I meet someone for the first time.
2) b
3)Who can say?
I believe in healing.
The only available eyewitness who was present with Ron Hubbard at Creston Ranch during the last few years of his life is Steve “Sarge” Pfauth, who has written a number of articles and comments on this blog concerning the matter. Pat Broeker was there also, but don’t expect him to show up here or anywhere else on the Internet to answer questions.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Pharmaceuticals, universities, medical equipment manufacturers, hospital infrastructures, doctor salaries and billions in support workforce wages can be maximized as long as the “biological / environmental-only” myth can be maintained. Very nice racket.
So twisted and nonsensical are the standards of their own research that if they do not notice profound physical changes in the body then it must be all hogwash. It’s all very deliberate and slanted. “Oh, he went exterior, but the hemoglobin levels remain unchanged, therefore …”
Health budgets are only second to education funding in many western countries keeping the tax dollars rolling in.
Money talks.
When I was in high school, years before I ever heard of Scientology, I wrote a short story about a huge, evil, powerful disembodied being who had somehow been trapped in a mountain and was trying to get loose. Not like in a cave inside a mountain – just held inside the mountain, by some strange force, coexistent with it, literally permeating the actual matter that made up the mountain. Stuck there, really pissed off, determined to get out.
This is 100% absolutely true (that I wrote this story). I felt really strange writing it, mainly because it was so weird. I was a little surprised that something like that would gurgle up from who knows where, into my consciousness.
By the way, it was also several years before 1967.
As to my own reality of past lives contacted in auditing, or that I heard from auditing others, I think there is a substantial amount of dub-in stuff, unreal stuff like always flying around in space ships & blasting enemies like in some video game, but also many incidents that ring very true. Just to give one example, I audited a very new pc and the very first whole track incident she contacted threw her into uncontrollable grief, in an instant. It was Civil War era, she was standing on the side of a river while her husband was drowning and she couldn’t do anything about it. No way was that dub-in!
Elvis does 2 shows per week at the Luxor in LasVegas
Science cannot prove something is not true. It’s up to the proponent of a theory to show evidence to support a theory. Even when there is strong evidence, that is still not proof. A theory can be disproven by new data that falsify it.
For reincarnation-type theories, some evidence can be falsified. For example if someone remembered being a human on Earth 75 million years ago, well, there are ample lines of evidence (geological, anthropological, genetic, archeological, etc.) that give us high assurance that there were simply no humans on Earth that long ago.
Or to poke fun if no one minds, if someone asserted he/she was on Venus and almost got hit by a freight train just the other day, here again too we see that the actual observed environment on Venus (now that we have those data) do not support the idea that there could be life there as we know it (much less freight trains).
My view is that for Scientology to gain _scientific_ credibility and ground in the odd Earth of today (I say odd due to the strange mix of post-modernist ignorance and superstition combined with sophisticated science that a century ago would have been pure magic), it must be open to observing and critically thinking about evidence.
Of course religions are not subject to scientific rules. So if the goal is merely an internally consistent belief system, then science is not the issue.
Interesting story, Wisher. You asked for reflections. I offer two:
First, I have experienced a place where there is no form of any sort, and only beingness existed. In that place, we can all connect if we wish, as there is no distance in that place. I suppose that “place” could be described as the static, the void, or other names depending on the belief system. I can tell you honestly, that having experienced that place directly I have a certain peace about things, and ultimately I do not feel alone.
Second, I do tend to agree that all religions have a piece of the truth. If the goal is the summit of a mountain, there are surely many trails to the top.
Third, there may or may not be a supreme being in the sense of a god, even one who would be doing after-death one-on-one consultations. I can say from my own actual experience that there are some sort of watchers or guardians who may greet people as they die / fully exteriorize. Those watchers may be able to tell a person to go back or may let them proceed, but as someone noted above, none of us have to obey “orders” we don’t want to obey. What I don’t know is if those watchers are archetypal projections from my own mind (in the Jungian or the Tibetan Buddhist sense), or if they have independent existence.
What I do feel certain of is this. To quote one of my favorite physicists: “The universe is not only stranger than we understand, it is stranger than we _can_ understand.”
1 – d) none of the above
2 – d) none of the above
3 – d) none of the above
Dylan, thank you for your communication.
Let me attempt to make it a good day, at least for you?
!) Marty’s survey requested information. He gave no reasons,
nor did he put any limitations on what information was given.
—-Agreed?
2) Many responded with mere yes / no type answers, while
others gave their comment as “any clarification / verification
you would like to provide.” –( an open invite from Marty )
—From what I can observe, that took place, Dylan –Agreed?
3) In many cases,(mine included) sincere,honest and unbridled
answers / comments were shared on this OPEN forum, which
does have the liability of attracting the response of “haters”
via the “like / dislike” buttons.
Please allow me to clarify.
There are a huge variety of respondents lurking out in cyber
space, and I’m sure you are aware that many have the sole
purpose to invalidate / disrupt / divide-and-conquer the Indie
field, by whatever means possible.( OSA, CO$, etc,etc.)
Are you with me on this?
examples; a) Marty gives a simple reply -“gotcha”- gets 1 Thumbs/down.
b) Li’ll bit of stuff (me) reply to KFrancis -” Now that is a truly
warm and emotional recall, K, Leaves one moved inside, that’s
for sure.” — For THAT I scored 10 Thumbs/downs?? Really?
Although your points certainly have merit, I believe there is
a real case of dislike of the “messenger” going on here, rather
than the “message.”
Thank you for your clearly stated views, and perhaps you now
better understand where I’m coming from, too.
ARC, Calvin.
1. A
I had a vision of myself as a wounded, dying soldier, lying in a ditch amid other dead and dying soldiers. A battle was being fought around me, a tumult of smoke and canon and musket fire. Sometimes I was more “here,” sometimes more “there,” and often in both places at once. My uniform consisted of a burgundy (or maroon) tunic and pants, black boots, and a round kepi-like cap. The tunic had a high collar, and white cross straps carrying pouches or bandoliers. My musket had a bayonet. The enemy wore similar uniforms, except in blue rather than burgundy. I knew the nations fighting this battle were Franconia and Prussionia. I was a Prussionian. Names that sound similar to France and Prussia, which in 1870 fought the Franco-Prussian War. Perhaps my memory of the names had been blurred across lives? I didn’t find this vision odd at the time, it was just something I accepted and recalled every now and then. I also came to realize that I’d always assumed that my vision was from the Franco- Prussian War. But upon researching the uniforms of that era, I discovered that in some ways, the uniforms in my vision were more similar to those of the Napoleonic era. Though not in other ways. I’m forced to consider the possibility that they are a memory, however jumbled, of a past life.
Thats awesome. Do you know @ what year that was? I bet that is not possible now days. In the Church I mean.
1.a and b There was a staff member at Flag who restimulated me considerably when I saw her, sometimes just before I came in to range to see her with my eyes. It came up in numerous sessions that I knew her before and that we were both in Scn last L/T.
After I was no longer in the SO I talked to her on the phone (she is also out) and she started talking about what we were doing last lifetime. She told me that she remembered me, from the same time that I remembered her.
I have always been fascinated with the notion that people tend to recall themselves as being grandeur characters in previous lives and the “accusations” by skeptics (like myself!) of so many people claiming to be Ceasar, Jesus, etc. I never had any recall of anything other than ordinary existences.
Out of sheer curiousity, I would love to see a survey that would reveal the rate of past life recollection of being important historical figures and/or personalities of power over others.
Nancy
ExScnDude, well done for being honest in your second comment!
The entire authority of Science rests exclusively on it providing ‘what works’ in the real, everyday world those things which can be experienced by anyone, irrespective of their training, study or intelligence. That’s where ‘facts’ come from, because they demonstrably ‘work.’
Science errs when asserting as factual that which is only speculative, for example, the concepts of infinity and zero. Science excels at producing verifiable data, but it should be understood that the data is derived from ‘what works.’ In Scientology we call that, is-ness.
In science, a truth is established when compared to other established truths; all truths being based on ‘what works’ and what can be experienced and measured and verified. In this way, science is a steady, progressive advance leading to more ‘workable truths.’ Beyond that, science has no authority, for the simple reason that it is a study of effect – what already is – and never cause. A scientist can talk all day long about effects, and how real they are, but don’t bother asking, for example, ‘What is energy?’ because he won’t know. He’ll mumble about ‘force,’ ‘power,’ ‘strength,’ ‘capacity,’ electrons, charming particles, and on and on and on. Yes, energy exists, it’s true, anyone can see that for themselves sufficiently enough to be wholly convinced of it.
And that’s all that really matters in science and in Scientology.
Current Church of Scientology members are as deluded as many scientists are, in placing more credence in personal beliefs than in pragmatic, fruitful work.
Richard Kaminski
The variety of armaments was intimidating to say the least. There were rifles, sniper guns, and rocket tubes which in some cases proved too heavy to carry in my inventory. I seem to remember having some kind of armor, but it’s hard to remember.
1. a, b and c;
2. b;
3. a (sorry, trade secret) and b.
This is fun, Marty.
In many ways, it’s been a good year; how about a Humorous Quiz for the holiday season?
Rich
[GASP!]
He LIVES!!!!
1.a
2.Not applicable
3.No personal knowledge
I think this is covered pretty well in Charge and the Time Track Engram Running by Chains HCOB which is on the Dn C/S 1 so every PC has at least seen it. The process of verifying information and confirming data is important for research but not for the PC. The PC’s quest is to find charge to run so he can release hidden significances. So it puts him a little out of session to be verifying the data. That’s why you’re not supposed to discuss it out of session.
I’m not a highly classed auditor but I ran 100s of hours of R3R back in the seventies (with a squirrel MK V that didn’t F/N! that was a trick!). I’ve run things that weren’t too real to me at first, then got REALLY REAL (as in contorted in pain in the chair) then blew, and run similar things on others. The point is not WHAT the PC is running, but is he confronting and blowing mass. A few floating TAs on Drug Rundown engram chains convinced me something was there. If not what it appears to be at first, still the PC is confronting and as-ising something. So we are getting somewhere. Later down the road the PC may realize he had it all wrong. Good, he finally got it right and he’s winning.
Does this invalidate the data? Did the PC make it all up? Are we really just rearranging synapses in the brain or rebalancing serotonin and dopamine? Could you audit sad old movies or Hallmark tearjerker specials and get the same result? I don’t think so, but it’s pretty subjective. In the long run it is not possible to run R3RA on every single engram in the billions of year tracks of PCs so you have to run charge in general, general subjects (the Grades etc.) which can be done theoretically without going Track at all. It’d be pretty boring to me, I love diving into the lost millennia to pull up arcane bits of knowledge and exploding space ships. But possibly there is another explanation for all that.
However, this is an interesting point of research. Not because it really matters whether there are space ships in the Pacific Ocean somewhere, but because this point and the reality of exteriorization both disprove the materialistic hypothesis. If you have lived before or if you can leave your body, you are not a body. The “Age of Enlightenment” is over and the atheists can crawl back in their holes. There seems to be quite a bit of evidence for this but nobody really credible seems to be studying it. The problem is not that scientists aren’t curious about it, they just don’t feel free to cut off their own funding and admit that 200+ years of intensive cheer-leading were on the wrong side. It would be like a climate scientist admitting that CO2 was harmless plant food and 1.2 degrees of maybe warming in 100 years was not enough to worry about. No cushy grants and easily published papers for that one!
I read somewhere that the majority of people on the planet believe in life after death of some sort, and quite a few believe in life before birth. It is
hard to credit that a sweaty moment in the back seat of a car CREATED A SOUL from nothing. Logically the soul or spirit was already there. If it was already there it is logical that it was doing something and not just sitting on a shelf somewhere waiting to be born. Earlier lives, or being one with the cosmos, or something. A lot of speculation is involved. Even the early Christian church believed in pre-existence of the spirit. Origen (early 3rd century Christian teacher and philosopher) is often said to have believed in re-incarnation but really he just reasoned out that since Christ was pre-existent (see John 1:1) we are too. Unfortunately the later Church fathers disagreed and ended up excommunicating him. A 3rd century Indie! Kabbalistic Judaism and Sufi
Islam are also said to embrace pre-existence of the soul. And of course Hinduism and most forms of Buddhism embrace reincarnation.So you could say that the materialists are in the minority. However all medical research and psychology deny the spiritual nature of man with almost messianic fervor. Believe me, you will not change their minds with a few compelling anecdotes. Or even hundreds of them.They cling to the black emptiness of death just like the pagan idolator clung to his carven idols. I think it is a simple matter of Confusion and the Stable Datum. By denying the spirit they justify their overts and simplify the complex and terrifying cosmos with its violence, spiritual warfare and awful consequences to a simple matter of neurons and rat mazes.
Eventually the truth will out.
+ 1
OK, SERIOUSLY! WTF is up with the Calvin-haters??
Why is Calvin being targeted above and beyond other posters, even on his non-opinion posts that merely acknowledge the thoughts of another poster? Please have the courage to post your objections to Calvin’s posts so he can at least have the opportunity to address his objectors.
Thank you to Dylan who had the courtesy to speak to Calvin about his objections.
For the record: I am delighted to say that Calvin is my friend.
Thank you, Nancy. You’ve been reading my mail. 😀 It’s nice to find a kindred spirit of true sanity. I would love to see that survey, too. Especially on this blog.
thanks for asking this question:
I never got the idea from Marty’s questions that details were invited, and I was quite surprised that so many people offered details far beyond what was asked for.
Calvin, you’re guilty of the two main crimes in this Universe as pointed out by LRH
1.You were there
2 You were in communication
Then you compounded your crime by being concise, humorous, relevant, enthusiastic, articulate and literate while delivering your communication!
Jeez man! You are one dangerous and scary SOB! Ha ha….keep up the good works my friend!
Thumbs up from where I stand.
Beautiful, TO, I just love this early assertion to get on with
finding out for himself. There is no doubt in my mind that
these early forays into “knowing thyself,” coupled to the
determination to become accomplished in the creative world
of acting and actually doing so, will result in “flourishing and
prospering,” in ways that will make you all proud!
ML, Calvin
Thanks for sharing this Mike. You did a great job there!
All the best to you & family, over the upcoming festive season!
Calvin.
Curious? If only that were true. That is way up there on the CDEI scale.
Curious that you have posted this on ESMB as yet another platform to conjure up ill will. And start “Fair game Marty” season 89 episode 67?
In the 18 years you were in Scientology, it was always a known fact that your method to handling others can be found in Science of Survival in the explanation of column Y.
“The third category is that of nullification, wherein the individual seeks to minimize individuals, to be more than they and so to be able to control them. This category would rather see a man sick than well, because sick men are less dangerous than well men according to the “thinking” that takes place in this band.” “from 1.2 down, all forthrightness vanishes, and the most devious and insidious and complex methods are employed to nullify. ” “Here we have perversion of anything and everything, so that the surface manifestation will never match the undercover purposes.” “In handling people around them, persons in the 1.2 – bracket deal in reversals of fact. One can take it as a rule of thumb which is too often workable to be ignored that whatever this person says he is doing, he is actually doing something else. Whatever this person says is true, is actually false. Whatever this person says is false, is actually true. Making allowance for the fact that much of the person’s conversation is without purpose, one can beware of this contrariness between manifestations and actual purpose.”
It would seem your purpose for posting this is NOT curiosity. Your ill will seeps through every sentence and your purpose is clear in that you have set up a little theater elsewhere to degrade Marty behind his back while you parade here under false pretense.
I think the answers on this thread helps to expose the lies coming from the Co$ .
Because i heard many times at events in the Co$ that unless you get up the bridge to OT III and OT V you are fu@ked when you die . The answers in this thread indicate this is not true .
But the corporate scientologists in the Co$ tell people that and then come up with all kinds of excuses why they are not allowed to go up the bridge ..
I think some them get a kick out of doing that , its a form of mental torture they practice on the public .
I bet David Miscavige has planned it that way , to tell them all that and then declare them so they are not allowed to go up the bridge , but the real reason he does that because he gets a kick out of torturing scientologists .
;
Palehorse, only if you consider one to be a quantity.
I wise man once told me: when you look at a checker board it is one piece of wood. But to play the game you need individuality of the board to have some fun. You need a multiplicity of one. You need a checker board. Individual spaces. That is Maya, delusion, the division of the undivided Static, to appear as many, but exits in true as One.
If you put 10 cups of water underneath a full moon and look into each cup, each cup shows an individual moon in it. Are they different moons? No, but each is an individual reflection of the moon.
Made in It’s Image if you will.
It’s all a play on different rates of vibration appearing as solid forms. Having an identity and individual existence.
Being told about that never inspired me to do any courses or get auditing in the Co$ , the reason being that is not why i am interested in scentoloogy .
The reason i am interested in scientology is : the greatest good for greatest number of dynamics .
But the Co$ way is to sell services is to drive people down the tone scale to fear to get get them to hand over money .
And that does not work , you cannot inspire people by pulling down the tone scale , but that is what is done in the Co$ .
People get interested in scientology for the greater good for the dynamics , they go to the Co$ , are evaluated for in there , are given the idea that the reason they are interested in scientology is because they are aftraid and that they are to be afraid .
You corporate scientologists are bastards for doing that .
Not that an ex scientologist would place any value on Hubbard’s theories. But anyone can read about the elemental bait and switch witch in Hansel and Gretel. The Grimm Brothers were very brave at sharing inconvenient truths.
The OTIII kid named Tony I met at Flag was in 1986.
Marty, hi again,
I know this is off topic, but do you (or anyone else) know of what has become of three very insightful, once regular contributors to this blog?
“Once Upon A time”
“Carcha”
“Sapere Aude”
Any info appreciated, directly or indirectly!
BTW, looking forward to news on your re-location, if & when you’re prepared to share! Sounds like a whole bunch of new opportunities for you and Mosey to really develop, grow and expand from your ( formerly ) badgered IOB premises and the insane antics of severely demented davey, via his IAS sponsored creeps and goons, whose stated mission was to
simply “make your life a living hell”
Having posted here earlier, of having gone through a perhaps
similar all out “war of attrition”, I can attest that for me personally, I was actually done a huge favor, unwittingly, by
the perpetrators, by deciding to move to “BETTER” pastures.
I’m certain you have already benefited hugely from that
long overdue decision.
Thanks, Calvin.
Well, my take on this issue – If an incident has been run it is refiled as memories, and therefore is no longer part of “case”. Talking about these memories would be no different than talking about what you had for breakfast, would it?
Remember an LRH book titled “Have You Lived Before This Life?” That had the whole track incidents of many pcs described in detail.
One possible consideration might be “appropriateness”, along the lines of the 2 Rules for happy living. In particular, “Don’t do (or say?) anything others can’t easily confront”. (Especially if they’re liable to take you and put you away somewhere…..) I don’t doubt this consideration is what keeps many people from talking more openly about their various experiences. Especially in the CoS…… MsCabbage’s and RTC’s confront of past lives has got to be pretty poor, no?
Excerpt from “A Note On Past Lives” by LRH:
…“An amusing sidelight on past lives is the “famous person” fixation. This more than anything else has discredited having lived before. There is always some madman “who was Napoleon,” always some girl “who was Catherine the Great.” This evidently means that the person, living a contemporary life to a famous figure, was so unsuccessful that he or she “dubbed in” the great personage. An auditor who runs into “Beethoven,” after the preclear has run it for a while, finds the preclear was really the handler of a street piano in that life—not Beethoven!
But all rules have exceptions, …“
The monumental effort involved with forwarding a simple truth sometimes borderlines pain. The worst feeling in the world, for me, is when you are forwarding a truth that is against all current beliefs and nobody believes you. That is the burden of creating a whole new universe. Because you have to bridge people from lies to truth and sometimes that is a drop in havingness.
And if you are going to take that on, you had better get used to a lot of ass whippings. Learn to roll with a punch. Learn to burn at the town square. Learn to rise above torture and beheadings, and Learn to come back. It is a very thankless journey where the only reward, and truly the only valuable reward, is truth. No matter the temporary inconveniences, the truth will set you free. Only when you have departed from that, does one need the Scientology.
1) B
2) N/A
3) B
FL, I will be reading the books you mentioned when they come out. I have read just about every book. I dont live in a bubble. I distanced myself long ago from the bullshit. But on your point about LRH’s death, I would say to anyone to use common sense. If you have been around anyone when they deop the body, they are not doing very well. In the case of LRH, he was mid-seventies, obese,smoker,etc. I am sure he had labored breathing, wheezing, bad color, etc. People who were fed a line that he simply decided to go off somewhere to finish his work were just given an acceptable spin. If they believed it , I am sure its because they wanted to believe it. I didnt have to be there or hear from anyone who was to have a lot of certainty that it was not a theta version of the Apollo 11 launch with lots of clapping and cheering. I am sure it was a somber scene.
Me too (Not immediately though, it took a little bit of time to understand the possibility, then “bing!” – it got invalidated at my first origination, then various evaluations and rubbish… ).
I hope you can get that validated and handled to your satisfaction:D
1) A – Verified by “reads” only.
2) N/A
3) No data
What I get as Marty’s message is not a complex stack of mazes and unknowables. Unlike David Miscavige. With the complex trail of corporate identities. His message is so simple and real. This is a too easy message. Let’s hope again too easy! One bad apple does not make this game invalid.
its an eternal progression. you should love Percivals works.
LRH is just over on the other side of the hill there doing further research .
This family of Mormons crossed the line. They had the whole fucking package. How about us? We are not leaders all the time. We are followers part of the time.
We can do this.
My love for horses may provide a relevant comment in here. In 1980, while travelling across Europe I happened to visit a family with many horses in their farm. I was asked if I’d like to join them for a ride in the country side, I was elated, but had not climbed into a saddle before in this life. Off we went and it was quite natural save few bruises as a souvenir. Fast forward to 2008, I start taking formal riding lessons in England with only that one off experience nearly 30 years ago under my belt. During the first lesson my instructor took a look at my riding and commented something like “we need untrain you off that Western style, we use Classic style here in England”. To me that was highly amusing and while I didn’t need any confirmation, in a way it served as one. My track with horses had just been validated by another, pretty cool.
I think you’re mistaken. I’ve seen him manning the turnstiles at Crawley Town’s home matches.
Wisher and FOTF2012….Those were both phenomenal posts.
Thank you.
1. b) Verified historically recorded events and/or locations out of session, after the fact of recalling (having had no previous education or information about them).
2. N/A
3. c) Other.
* My wife and I have been together before and vowed to find each other when it was safe again. I could write for a long time regarding the details and how life before intertwines with life now. We have plans to go validate our buried treasures of the past but no real urgency to do so. We already “know.”
* Auditing only “Book 1” style I have personally experienced PCs running incidents before this lifetime. These run with the same occurrence of somatics and change in tone that would occur with a normal incident. Really they are normal incidents but being earlier can produce incredible change when reduced.
* One “Book 1” PC later thanked me for helping him recall and gain certainty he had done auditing last lifetime and was Clear. Shortly after he joined Class V org staff and married a local OT.
* During a visit to LA and the Hollywood Guaranty Building (or HGB that is a Sea Org management building ) there was a child in full Sea Org dress maybe 8 or 9 working along the other staff. They were operating and communicating as an adult. I had only completed a few basic courses at the time and this made an impression on me.
* +many more for maybe another time.
I second the “Where is LRH?” comment.
Anytime I think about anything related to past lives I always have a thought such as “Gee it would be really great if LRH made it back. I wish I could help somehow.”
Right! If you know their existence, you don’t have to agree or get fooled.
1. B
2. n/a
3. B
When people agree with that , that they are into scientology to be “saved” , they are no longer OT . All their power and abilities go when they agree with that .
Very interesting indeed! What is your source for this compilation if you could share it? I’d like to put it with the quote I am copying. Thanks.
you said that you think there is a real case of dislike for the messenger ( I assume that you are refering to you as the messenger here) Why do you think that is?
I can tell you from my viewpoint that your communication to me did come across as a tic condesending. Was it your intention?
I got your points and fully understand what you said. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Good luck and god’s speed in all you do.
cheers Dylan.
Due thanks K, I hereby confess to the cyberworld at large.
I plead guilty on all counts. I accept also that the jury are
completely entitled to take potshots at yours truly from behind
their anonymity. There, hope that makes the caged lion shoot
a little safer for the thumbs down posse!
BTW, K, You demonstrate very clearly, the ability to observe
what’s going on in front of you, instead of being swept up by
computations generated by the unfortunate A=A=A played
out upon some otherwise unsuspecting “thetans,” ahem,er, do
pardon me, “deeply offended / justifiably indignant / persons
of impeccable correctness / and / or allegiance to the ONLY
correct references with which one is permitted to “Thunk ”
when dealing with a perpetrator who has committed the afore-
mentioned 2 (two) unforgivable crimes.”
Guess i must now go sprawl into a corner, lick my paws with
my rough tongue, and heave grunts of acceptance as I await
my inevitable “fate”
Oh shit man, I can’t keep a straight face for long, with pretense
like this!!
Hey, you lot, LIGHTEN up a little, (this) life (uh oh 20 T/D’s for
that little statement alone)!! is short! Why waste it being so ……………………………ssssserioussssssss??…………………………..
leave that to the “church” of $$$$$$$$$$$$cientology! OK?
Calvin B. Duffield
“Insouciant” Scientologist
South Africa, where REAL lions roam, dominate and kill, and
didn’t get their reputation as “The KING of beasts” for nothing!
Come up real close to them, and you may also find why they
are regarded as so dangerous and respected, with awe!
Marty,
I’m either too simple or too scientific to answer these questions by an “a”, “b” or “c”, but I will try to answer the questions the way I see it.
1. What degree of proof do you have of the existence of previous lifetime identities of your own?
I have proof that there is information in my mind that was not acquired this life time.
I have many, many auditing experiences which have made me touch upon and encounter “memories” which did not occur this lifetime – complete with full perceptions and somewhat exact time and place.
I know for a fact that when addressing my own mind in auditing and the auditor helps guide my attention to something reading on the meter, I pick up, usually, fragments at fist. These fragments usually develop into seeing in my mind’s eye some form of incident which is identified by my mind as involving myself but not in the current life.
I know for a fact that when I encounter a core incident which seems to be the underlying basic on the chain I’m addressing with whatever specific process or command we were running, and I discover exactly what happened, meaning the full truth of that incident, including my exact thought process, decisions, intentions, etc., I feel a tremendous relief at the precise instant I realize all of that. If it was in an area which was previously bugging me, I know for a fact that this area is no longer bugging me afterwards and have proven that this is the case by the simple expedient of not having those problems anymore as demonstrated daily.
Around 1997 I was getting my M1 auditing. In one session I recalled a symbol; a very complex and Asian looking one. I couldn’t speak it so I had to put down the cans and draw it for my auditor. As we had no dictionaries available to clear it, we went to the closest solution we could think of – the Japanese LRH voice talent up in the audio division, Endo. My auditor and I went to him and explained we were in session but needed help to clear a misunderstood symbol. We showed Endo my drawing and he stared at it in amazement. After a long pause Endo said it was a symbol of a secret brotherhood in Japan which existed some 400 years ago. He wouldn’t even have known the symbol had he not been somewhat interested in Japanese conspiracy history. I asked if my drawing was really close to the symbol or “roughly resembled this symbol?” Endo said my drawing was EXACT. He gave some further information and I was satisfied I had finally understood what the symbol meant. We went back to the auditing room and I had a persistent FN and we had to end session.
In school the subject of English was my worst subject. I was a pretty smart guy in school and had no major problems, but English was just “impossible” to learn. In Sweden, my native country, we had a grading system of 1-5 whereby 5 was the best. I had a “2” in English pretty much every year until University graduation. I was completely illiterate and sounded worse than the Swedish chef in the Muppet show.
Then I went to the US. For any Int guys that remember me back in 1990 – 1992 they will also remember that by ability to communicate in English was rather, well terrible.
Based on what we addressed on my M1, I literally recovered and restored some either hidden past knowledge of the English language, or something. I can’t even explain it. Just at a certain point, the ability to verbally and in writing use English just came back to me. I never even remotely had “mastered” a foreign language this life-time. Within literally just a few years of being in the US my English (American English) literacy level was roughly equal to or slightly higher than your average college graduate. How could this be? I still don’t know, but I do know after auditing on M1 this did occur for a fact. Incidentally, after this occurred I also started to think in English and Swedish became almost my second language and any Swedes that wanted to be patriotic and speak to me in Swedish were unfortunately in vain as I sounded just as bad in Swedish as I had been in English some years back. Later in 1999 when I went back to Sweden, a relative of mine told me that actually the first word out of my mouth when I was a year old was “Hello!” (that’s English for “Hi” and not a Swedish word.)
By 1994 I hadn’t had much auditing at all and I up to that point had not experienced auditing a past life incident. I had encountered some vague impressions, or mainly thoughts that didn’t seem to belong to this lifetime, but certainly they were not accompanied by any real perceptions, including images, like what happens when you recall a memory. But in 1994 I went on a holiday with my wife to mainly handle my visa and passport situation. In travelling back to the US from Sweden we stopped by Saint Hill as my wife grew up at Saint Hill. When I arrived to Saint Hill I knew the place inside out. I knew where to go, all the surroundings and the roads. I knew what was in each room at the Manor and I even made a little guessing game with my wife and this tall Dutch girl who was the Host as to what was going to be in the next room. The Dutch Host was laughing at me and saying that I had probably secretly read some brochures or seen some promo videos of Saint Hill. I told her “Probably!” but I actually never did.
Later when auditing with the former Qual Sec Gold Katie Tisi (Feshback) I audited having been a student at Saint Hill in late 1966 into 1967. I saw the people there, the spaces, surroundings, East Grinstead and all the little houses where the students lived while staying at Saint Hill, the fish and ship shop, etc, etc. These “memories” or mental impressions were as vivid as remembering having lunch yesterday. To this day I can “recall” that time period and describe it as vividly as, well, having lunch yesterday. It appeared I was a fairly cocky American back then, gifted with far better looks than this lifetime and I had a very strong fetish for the female species. Had some secret love affair with another Italian student after hours somewhere in East Grinstead (still remembering having to duck under clothes lines when going from her house to mine.) I eventually blew from course and also ended up being drafted for the Vietnam war – lots of motivators around that time period… Never encountered the Old Man though per anything I’ve seen so far.
I remembered what my name was. I remembered that I had lived in San Diego. I knew where I had lived by a picture of the place in my mind, the streets surrounding it, etc. When I left the Sea Org and moved to Montreal, I took some time to investigate the accuracy of my memories from that time period in the mid to late 60’s. I was never able to confirm if someone with my exact name had enrolled on the SHSBC, but I did verify by official public records and using Google maps and street view that a person with my exact name had indeed lived at the exact place I had found and he died in 1970 – the year I was born.
So, is this proof I have lived before? Maybe it is. What I can tell for sure is that this information came from somewhere and it existed in my own mind. How and why is not that important to me. What is important is the tremendous amount of mental charge that went away went I addressed it in auditing.
2. If you have witnessed as a C/S or auditor the return of a Scientologist in a new body after death, which of the following applies:
I haven’t witnessed this exactly. As far as the general subject of past lives, I could mention one more thing of potential interest which occured when I was auditing on the RPF. One of my twins and I ended up auditing the exact same incident, twice actually, where we were both part of the same incidents in some distant lives, which were fairly charged. As my twin would state things as the PC, I would (as the auditor) remember the exact details of what she was talking about, at least from my perspective. It was very awkward and she told me later that she felt the same thing when she was being the auditor and I was the PC.
3. What happens to thetans between lifetimes on this planet?
Couldn’t tell you for sure. I have never encountered the in-between lives stuff in any of my own auditing that I have identified so far. I have not the faintest clue based on my own experience and reality. I can give my opinion based on what I have studied and concluded as well as based on auditing others, but I don’t think this would be very valuable to what you’re trying to do with this survey.
Cheers, Ulf
Loulandry,
You mentioned that you read “Alien Interview” by Lawrence Spencer.
You are right.
I read that book too, a couple of times and think it is one of the more extra curricular important books a scientologist should read.
I printed it off a few yrs ago,so i have a hard copy. Yesterday, I gave it to my room mate to read and he said it is fascinating. He can hardly stop talking about it.
The alien tells the interviewer what kind of people were dumped on earth, amongst other mind blowing stuff.
Another interesting thing is that there is some scientologeze in the interview.
Dio
Merci SJ !
C’est bien que nous avons ces amis en commun. Ce sont des gens merveilleux. Si seulement ils pouvaient arrêter de croire en l’Église de David Miscavidge, s’allumer, et devenir indépendent…
→ It’s nice that we have those friends in common. They are wonderful folks. If only they could stop believing in David Miscavidge’s Church, be enlightened, and become Independents…
A while back I was wondering why it is that even though there seems to be so much evidence of the paranormal, including past lives, that these are still not accepted as valid by science. So I decided to see what I could find on the internet and googled “proof of the soul.” I found a very relevant article on a British website that seemed to answer my question, even tying in quantum physics, “THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SURVIVAL AFTER DEATH,” by Michael Roll. http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/scientificproof/scientificproof1.html
Here are some excerpts:
“There are two expert opinions as to what so-called paranormal phenomena are, but in this ‘free’ country the British people are only allowed access to the explanation that is politically correct…
“The parapsychologist Dr. Susan Blackmore has been given complete freedom of every radio and television programme that is meant to be examining the subject. This is because she is the establishment mouthpiece and…protects the scientific establishment’s adopted stance, which only gives a materialistic model of the universe. Professor J. Wheeler, a top physicist, stated in 1994 that acceptance of survival or paranormal phenomena would destroy the basis of science as taught in our universities…
“We have had the experimental proof of survival after death ever since Sir William Crookes published the results of his experiments in the leading scientific journal of his day – The Quarterly Journal of Science – in 1874. These were repeatable experiments under laboratory conditions. International teams of scientists then repeated the experiments and obtained the same results. People who had once lived on earth came back and proved to these scientific teams that they had conquered death and were still very much alive. This is what Professor Charles Richet, the French Nobel Laureate for medical science, said about the experiments: ‘There is ample proof that experimental materialisations should take definite rank as a scientific fact’ […]
“Read Professor Richard Feynman’s layman’s guide to subatomic physics obtainable from bookshops and the library – QED. Once people have read the physicists’ and rationalists’ case explaining so-called paranormal phenomena they automatically become immune from falling for any supernatural absurdities. Never again will the masses fall under the spell of priestcraft. Never again will people be fooled by pseudo-scientists who are guilty of suppressing uncomfortable discoveries in physics solely to keep their power structures intact.”
Roger, Bob Monroe is not a scientist, which was why he hired Tom Campbell and Dennis Mennerich to work with him. He wanted to have scientists do the research and thus legitimize what he subjectively knew.
The point where Campbell and Mennerich themselves knew with certainty
that they were not imagining their OOB experiences (exteriorizations) was after a plan to meet together at some specific location on the planet. They (their bodies) were in separate sound booths with no ability to comunicate to each other by physical means. Each of them spoke into a microphone and recorded what was happening and what was being said to each other.
Afterwards, when they they listened to the recordings, they realized from the conversations and perceptions that matched that it was truly real.
Thanks Nancy, much appreciate your standing up to be
counted, and you are another shiny example of one who
has the courage to stand by their statements / opinions.
Regarding the entheta degree of Thumbs Down posters, I’m reminded of an oft quoted piece by Ron:
” People at low levels of awareness do not observe, but
substitute for observation, preconceptions, evaluation
and suppositions, and even physical pain by which to
attain their certainties.”
—-The Creation Of Human Ability.
Charles, I had never run past lives either until I got a CCRD and as part of it was given the Past Lives Remedy. That was when I did contact past lives.
For the survey, just that one answer:
1. (a)
Thanks for your response Dylan. Your’e
entirely spot on, except for the point on
condescending. .My pure intent was to
ask if you “agree” with the points made.
And please, feel free to ask, or challenge
anything else I say on this blog. At the end
of the day, life is short, so one can ask; Why waste it being sssssssseriousssssssss?
Life can be so much more fun, and more
enjoyable without getting caught up in theta
draining negative influences
Seriousness = mass = introversion = Lose
Insouciance = theta = extroversion =Win
Stay sharp bro’ (is there any other way?)
Cheers,
Calvin.
c
Well said, True Believer!
Nice. Thank you for that. 🙂
Ah, well. I actually am curious. I remember being told to never talk about my case outside of session, but I do not recall whether or not that was an LRH policy or something else.
Again, Marty asked for yes/no answers, and many people answered with specific details. I simply found that interesting in light of having been told repeatedly to not talk about case.
Dear WindWalter,
thank you for your note, indeed I haven´t noticed the reply button earlier!
Yep, the truth about this still wants to be discovered – I don´t claim to have found it or to be sure that it is exactly the way I wrote. It´s just an idea I have, which makes sense to me…
Want to tell you that I am very happy about your answers, esp. having received the confirmation that my communication has been understandable, has arrived and been accepted. The possibility to find sb to discuss or share subjects like these for me is rare and has been precious for me. Thank you!
Yes, the “materialistic model” is extended to medicine and psychiatry in particular. Pity the poor young child who is taken to be evaluated by “mental health professionals” by his/her PTS to the middle-class parents because of talking about a past life, only to be prescribed “antipsychotic medication”.
I think many of those who have managed to get a little older without suffering that particular fate, have some way learned to be a bit circumspect about originating such notions.
Yes. Very relevant to Marty’s survey in that it reveals a great deal of info on implant stations, whole track amnesia, etc.., Very enlightening.
OK, I looked up David Icke too. Um, … at the risk of invalidating your beliefs and beingness ….
I strongly feel that David Icke’s conspiracy theories are bat-shit insane, but that’s just me. Of course, that makes me among the vast majority of those he refers to as “sheeple” who do not posses the rare, deep level of awareness necessary to be able to spot the existence and danger of the cleverly disguised reptilian race that is secretly interbreeding with humans. While I am not a huge fan of George W. Bush, I do not believe that he is among the elite of the reptilian race (along with Tony Blair and Queen Elizabeth II) who are secretly plotting to instill a nefarious New World Order run by the reptilian Brotherhood, who, of course, are all in cahoots with the Jewish elite who control the World Bank.
But that is just my belief, and I have no indisputable verification to support my views…. and I’m okay with that.
Baa-aa-aa-aa….
Naa-aa-aa-aancy
They? MIB stands for Men in Black, right?
See “RESEARCH PROJECT” HCOB 21 march 1960. Lrh wanted to collect datas on past lives to write a book named “Where are you buried ?”. The book has never be written. Miss of time ? Miss of datas ?
Moonshot, you hit the nail on the head. Also the reason for heavy coercion to abort pregnancies. Past lifers are out here and if they’re smart, will stay far away from Cof$ and its suppressive tactics.
Wisher, I love this. Thanks for posting it.
The Oracle, great when we put no fixed ideas onto our kids. One of mine around age 7, experienced heavy grief over the loss of her rabbit and I sat her down very informally, to run out the lock. She proceeded to run that loss and then this lifetime’s birth and about 5 prior lifetimes of being born until she was happy and ready to move on. Like butter. Poof.
Chris, my reality of this “prime consciousness” is related to the eight or God dynamic. Just a thought I wanted to share, made very real to me during clay table processing during Key to Life and/or Life Orientation courses.
Excellent point re. what’s case, Valkov. After the charge is released from an incident, IMO it’s no longer case – and that goes for whole track recall as well.
Thank you. It was pretty much standard operating procedure. I mean, some people did talk about their ‘case’ or track outside of session but it was considered a no-no.
I wonder if anyone knows if there a policy/HCOB or not on the subject, or were we given verbal data when told this.
I asked valid questions and Marty allowed them to be posted because of that. Are you trying to derail and distract attention off what I asked, which Marty allowed to be posted? Or are you back to your old ways, spewing hate? I though you changed for the better.
This survey has been one of the highlights of my life.
Answers a few questions I had.
I mentioned this earlier and want to do it again.
I have learned that there are all possiblities from newbies to old timers on this planet.
Dio
Ah, perhaps he’s doing one of those double body thinga-ma-jigs!
There are 3 questions. Which one are you answering?
Chris
You are welcome to contact me at windwalker8008@gmail.com should you choose.
Eric S
I am responding to this:
“Vicar, thank you and here is more to my point. Why don’t you read the soon-to-be-released Lawrence Wright and Glenn Samuels books, specifically the sections where Ron’s final years are discussed in detail.”
Neither of those persons were even remotely near Ron Hubbard during his “final years”. Therefore whatever they have to say about those “final years” has to come from other sources.
According to the available information, the only persons who were around Hubbard during the period from early January 1980 until he died in January 1986 were: Pat Broeker, Annie Broeker, Steve “Sarge” Pfauth and Dr. Eugene Denk. Of these, Dr. Denk passed away in November, 2004 and Annie Broeker Tidman passed away in June, 2011 having been kept incommunicado from anyone outside of the Sea Organization since she left Creston after Hubbard died.
Steve “Sarge” Pfauth has already posted on this blog about his time with Ron Hubbard at Creston Ranch. As Sarge remains loyal to Ron Hubbard to this very day, neither of these above writers would have gotten any “dirt” from him – even if they had actually interviewed him.
That leaves Pat Broeker, who has remained steadfastly disassociated from all things Scientology since he was ousted from RTC in 1987. Pat Broeker has never spoken publicly about his time in Scientology, whether in person or on the Internet and it is a virtual certainty that if he does speak out, he has some sort of horrible legal consequences facing him.
So, the probability that either of these two writers has anything to say about Hubbard’s “final years” that is factual and not mere speculation or rumor is vanishly small.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
1) B. I recalled places in session that I had never been too this life. When I finally went there in person it was just like I had recalled it. Spooky feeling but great to see. Though knowingness alone should be sufficient I found this to be validating to the knowingness itself.
2) B), but I had to think about that. Mostly I found that the fact of coming back into Scn was quite invalidated in the church. Not so much by individual auditors or C/Ss but by the fact that when you as a C/S or auditor made an adjudication that someone was or had in deed come back you opened yourself up to ridicule and sometimes oppressive corrective measures. So, I really had to make an effort to recall specific cases and I could recall one case that I audited that revealed to me details about his past existence that could not have been possibly been known by him otherwise and were then verified by historical facts.
3) I suppose A could still be going on but from my subjective reality and experience this is not the case now, at least around here. Considering the vastness of space A is probably still a common practice in other places. For the records my answer is B). My policy on leaving is, just in case: Stay low. If you get disoriented find an object and go around it until you get your bearings back. Decide where you want to be (and therefore be there).
Nice survey. Thanks Marty!
Thank you, Michael.
I’m not looking for “dirt” as you put it. I’m looking for truth. Marty knows the whole story and I hope he publishes it in his Book III. Just say it how it was.
Either, LRH achieved the full OT state and dropped his body causatively (discarded like a rag doll a child is done with) and went on to do research on the upper OT levels for the next 26 years. (But never had time to get back to us or check in with us like he promised he would do in dispatches and letters to SO execs.)
In which case, we need to follow in his footsteps and do the processes that got him to his invincible state. Find those missing OT sections, papers, and notes.
Or, he died a broken, diseased, and mentally unstable old man way before his time was up and could not be helped by the tech he created or the Class 12s that he trained.
In which case, we know we need to do some more research and in the meantime we need not get too twisted about achieving the yet un-achieved OT state he envisioned.
LRH’s death and the mental and physical state he attained — or not — is just a “data point” in the research line, if I can put it that cold and clinically. No one will talk about it openly. It’s a forbidden topic. The silence is deafening . . . and telling.
A real science has no reason to lie or have a Watergate-style coverup spanning nearly 30 years. A cult, on the other hand, might want that to retain better control on its flock and finances.
I know people who made significant life decisions based on the LRH mythology they were fed in 1986, so they could “follow Ron to Target II” someday. Maybe they had no kids, bought no home, didn’t save for retirement, have no health insurance today as older senior citizens, zero savings, and zero hope for a good job at advancing age. I know of one couple up the bridge in their 60’s that own no home, no social security coming ever, no health insurance, no savings, mediocre jobs . . . and a $250 thousand credit card tab that they are still paying on and will never get out from under.
People make important life decisions on what they are told by those they trust. I’m not looking for dirt, Michael. Just the truth.
I’m actually in a polite way trying to ask Marty to tell it like it is in Book III because I think there’s good in the subject, but any attempt at sugar coating or concealing the truth about LRH’s end, be it extremely wonderful or horribly shocking, would permanently ruin Marty’s credibility with the outside world (and that of the Indie movement and the tech).
Lawrence Wright interviewed over 200 people for his book. He’s the kind of guy that would primarily look for people that were close to Ron or worked with him hand in glove. His version of the truth will be the closest to the real truth, IMO. I trust him as a researcher and author.
Unless anyone else cares to speak out.
Again, I don’t want dirt. Just the truth of where we realistically stand with the tech. Please don’t confuse my intent.
I don’t hate Sir Issac Newton because he didn’t finish the job of codifying all of physics in his lifetime. I’m grateful to him for the work he did.
I don’t hate Einstein because he only got so far and failed in his goals during his final 20 years. I’m grateful to him (I guess) for the work he did.
Likewise Ron. He moved the ball forward on the field . . . maybe not to the goal posts, but he moved it. I’m grateful to him for the work he did.
Let’s not let this “science” crumble and fade under the assumption that it’s OK to tell lies and have massive cover-ups as “it’s the greatest good.” People don’t like to get lied to for decades.
Back in 1996 or so, there was an SO program out to handle disaffected OTs. It said something to the effect that the the biggest threat to the future of Scientology going forward was disaffected OT 7’s in the field and that they all must be “handled” immediately and gotten back in (or quieted). To quite a degree, I’d say that’s very true. There’s just so many on the critic boards nowadays and boy are they active and are they vocal.
2013 will be the year of “all in” where everyone (book authors) lays their cards out on the table. Be forewarned.
Just the truth please. Anything else would be insulting, I’m afraid. Let’s not lie to OTs and take the chance of enraging anymore OTs.
Forever Lurker
Your standard about the late-life health of the discoverer is likely to lead you to a hermetically sealed, do-nothing, interiorized state. It certainly won’t recommend Scientology to you.
Forever Lurker,
You are 100% correct. You are an honest thinker, seeer, evaluater and voice, and that is quite rare in this field.
I used to have a cassete tape, ( I got it from Mark Jones, before he passed away) it may still be around somewhere in storage, of LRH on his last days. His voice was very rough, deep, and distraught and weak. It may have been his last words.
All I remember from the tape, is that he said: when you help the insane, you go insane.
And you are most correct, the bridge is full of holes and missing data.
The evidence lies in the fact that for the most part scientologists and their lives are continuously caving in, or erupting in conflicts and ARCX.
Generally speaking a scientologist is still PTS and an undesireable being.
If the bridge was as good as claimed, the cos and the subject of scn would not be in the state of disrepute it is.
Honesty will set us free.
Dio
(first try screwed up)
1. a) Multiple lifetimes validated and acknowledged in many sessions (until new regime of DM; then same data invalidated, and some even scorned).
c) My friend last lifetime and this lifetime knew even my middle name from last lifetime without my having told her.
2. N/A
3. a) The implant station seems to be Mars.
If someone were to ask me what I believe about the afterlife, I would say, “Nothing. I go by what I know, and belief or faith is not necessary. I have lived lifetimes before this one, ergo, I will live lifetimes after this one.” I may not recall which meat and cheese were on my sandwich last Tuesday, but I don’t have to have faith that I had lunch; I ate it!
1.A&B
2.C
3.Depends on the being.Most may get sucked into implant stations by “going into the light” ,some few more enlightened may not fall for the traps and pick a new body when they are ready without being treated for amnesia,but that is rare.Maybe some just leave and somehow make it back to where they came from.
Not to mention a poster named OTDT. I hope he is OK.
Forever Lurker,
Why do you assume “Marty knows the whole story”? It’s true he got into Scientology around 1978, but I have no reason to think he had a lot of contact, or had any contact with him, in LRH’s last few years. It actually seems like LRH was very isolated (intentionally), even from his own family as his end approached. Hardly anyone actually knew where LRH was, much less had any contact with him. That’s been amply documented on this blog, as well as elsewhere.
I don’t doubt Marty will tell what he does know, but I have no reason to think it will necessarily answer your specific questions.
This is exactly right, there is a tremendous amount of “vested interest” involved in keeping a biological/physical mythology going. Stock market interests are also involved. Pharma/medical stocks are big business. For-profit hospitals also. Money was the big driver in the switch from psychoanalytically oriented psychiatry to “biological psychiatry” and the pushing of pharmaceuticals as the cure-all for “mood disorders” etc, viathe chemical imbalance in the brain” theories which are in themselves myths for probably 99.9% of those who seek life improvement.
I’m with you on this, Nancy. It may simply be that Calvin is so irrepressible, which triggers the impulse to repress in some people. Also, many of the thumbs-down may be coming from just one or 2 people triggering the thumbs-down button repeatedly.
In other words, it could be mostly “thumb-spam”.
Mirari,
If you look at Amazon Reviews of this book, there is a very similar list in the 3rd 5-star review down, I believe it is.
the book is titled:
Reincarnation: The Phoenix Fire Mystery : An East-West Dialogue on Death and Rebirth from the Worlds of Religion, Science, Psychology, Philosophy [Paperback]
Sylvia Cranston (Author, Editor)
Tara,
Lyrics from the Incredible String Band’s song “Douglas Traherne Harding”:
When I was born I had no head
My eye was single and my body was filled with light
And the light that I was, was the light that I saw by
And the light that I saw by, was the light that I was
One light, the light that is one though the lamps be many
One light, the light that is one though the lamps be many
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FYI – A Flag document called “An Intro to Flag Auditing – Your Hat As a Preclear” (2006) was linked to in a post by Anonycat on ESMB the other day. It was in a thread called Flag/FLB Dox.
Within this document there is a section on page 5 called ” Discussing Your Case” Of course there is no HCOB reference but it’s clearly stated that one is not to discuss one’s case and why. You can read the document here
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d24t1u1fc54w0qc
The other Flag/FLB documents posted can be found here
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29653-Flag-FLB-Dox
Mary Mcconnell,
You are evidently a good robot or parrot or sheep.
Learn to think for yourself.
Read: “How to study a science”, in “a new slant on life”, apply it and learn to think for yourself.
Not everything Hubbard said is gospel, or absolute by far.
He often had to make radical or extreme policies to control all the GEs, nutcases and enthetans from running the show into ruins.
In normal situations by sufficiently high theta beings there is nothing wrong with discussing ones case or other cases. It is a good form of auditing and therapy.
There are 1000s of groups all over the world where people of like problems join together to discuss and find resolution to common problems or discuss topics of mutual interest.
This discussion is extremely valuable and enlightening.
Dio
Fascinating, Mark. Thanks for the ref. BTW, July 28, 1914 is the “official” date of the start of WWI, following the assassination of Austria’s Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo, Serbia.
I’ve been thinking about this topic of why there seems to be so many people who can recall being somebody famous, and, other than that being a “winning valence” in an engram (reference DMSMH book), I can think of several other reasons: Taking just the case of Romans, I just looked up a map of Italian provinces. They were all independent states before Rome unified it, under the Roman Republic, starting with Etrusca, which was North of the Roman state. All these places at the time were ruled by some Roman-looking guy lounging around in robes. Anyone recalling being one of these guys might easily think that life he was an important Roman, if the only part of the incident being recalled is the person’s name and what the place looked like. There were also a lot of Greek city states with nobles in similar dress, and Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. (2) Some common names in Rome were Julius, Nero, Germanicus, Gaius, etc., and they would get strung together: Julius Drusus Germanicus, for example. So there were probably a lot of men named Julius. The first Emperor was Gaius Julius Caesar (last word probably pronounced “Kaiser.”) and, under later Roman law, only the Emperor could wear solid purple robes. Members of the Imperial family could wear robes with purple hems. See Wikipedia “Roman Emperor” for lists of titles that could signify that someone was the Emperor. So if your name was Antoninus and you owned a villa and lounged around in white robes with a purple hem, you may or may not have been the Emperor Antoninus later, but you were probably related to an Emperor. (3) Going back track from Rome, there were other civilizations, some of them huge, that the Roman Empire was constructed in restimulation of. (Then again, there are only so many ways to design functional metal armor, so a lot of places will look similar.) Multiply the above opportunities to have been an Emperor, provincial governor, general, villa owner (rich guy) or ruler of a Greek city-state by a lot more.
No sir.
Possibly the PC Hat HCOPL, which each PC got before delivery of an intensive? I’m guessing, but that’s where I’d start looking. There was some other reference to “case on post.” You were supposed to originate it to the Examiner and end cycle on it, not have a case on post (while working).
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1. a
2. n/a
3. b
As a Book One auditor, I observed many instances of pc’s recalling past lives or conception-birth experiences. (I don’t remember anyone describing between-lives experiences). None were proven by research, but all resulted in vgi’s. In my own experience as a preclear (I’m Clear), I recalled a wide range of generally mundane lives. Although, not proven by any means, the only one I questioned and doubt was a recall of being an early Scientologist, working with LRH in the late fifties. Even as I perceived that one, I was reluctant to voice it to the auditor, and felt embarrassed that “everyone must romanticize the idea of wanting to have worked with LRH.”
By way of a very brief introduction, I am Clear, training only up to Pro-TR’s. I was introduced to Scn in the late 80’s through my former husband’s involvement with Sterling Management. I have had a strong pull to be on staff, even the SO, but only ended up helping as a Bk 1 auditor and in other ways for a local mission effort. I was an active public until after my divorce in 2004. I have long tried to reconcile the contradictions I felt existed between the Tech, which I believe is workable, and the way the organization (as a whole) has been run. I observed a number of things that didn’t add up, and perceived that more was going on. For some reason, I have felt compelled in the past two days to read this blog and a number of other sites. It’s been one huge, validating acknowledgement of my own reality. Thank you.
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It was in Dianetics session when I saw, from the first person point of view, that I was a soldier. And seeing all around me was the vast muddy fields, from distance couple of tanks (not much), smokes, hear screaming ‘ captain’. As if the war or battle was almost done. The person at that moment was brave, not afraid to die, in disbelief, in distress, worried for his soldiers, soldiers either dead or severely injured. I see this one continuous point of view. I never seen any movie like it. When I went further back I saw another images from another era. Was these imagined or past life memories?
1) a-b-c
2) b
3) a-b-c
1 A, and ability to use different types of training from previous lives and contact some of my friends from before.
2 Not applicable. I ran onto somebody reincarnated here that I knew from previously, but socially, not through auditing.
3 A can happen, but I don’t want to discuss locations. Except for the one on the Moon that isn’t under implanter management any more, the one that used to power “The Screen.” C, other. I discussed things, together with my associates, we picked out a good location for another incarnation, put a good body together, and here I am.