That is the title of another book by Stephen Mitchell, whose translation of Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching I have many times recommended on this blog and in my books. The subtitle is: A New Translation and Guide to his Essential Teachings for Believers and Unbelievers.
Mitchell undertakes an effort begun by such noted Americans as Thomas Jefferson and Ralph Waldo Emerson, both of whom assayed to differentiate the life and words of Jesus from the hype, falsehood, misdirection and fear they perceived had been added to the Scriptures by others.
I am going to share one passage from the introduction of Mitchell’s book that I believe might resonate on several levels with people who have invested in the Scientology experience.
Excerpt from The Gospel According to Jesus:
He enjoys eating and drinking, he likes to be around women and children; he laughs easily, and his wit can cut like a surgeon’s scalpel. His trust in God is as natural as breathing, and in God’s presence he is himself fully present. In his bearing, in his very language, he reflects God’s deep love for everything that is earthly: for the sick and the despised, the morally admirable and the morally repugnant, for weeds as well as flowers, lions as well as lambs. He teaches that just as the sun gives light to both wicked and good, and the rain brings nourishment to both righteous and unrighteous, God’s compassion embraces all people. There are no pre-conditions for it, nothing we need to do first, nothing we have to believe. When we are ready to receive it, it is there. And the more we live in its presence, the more effortlessly it flows through us, until we find that we no longer need external rules or Bibles or Messiahs.
“For this teaching which I give you today is not hidden from you, and is not far away. It is not in heaven, for you to say, ‘Who will go up to heaven and bring it down for us, so that we can hear it and do it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, for you to say, ‘Who will cross the sea and bring it back for us, so that we can hear it and do it?’ But the teaching is very near to you: it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.”
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Where can I get this translation of the Tao. I have been looking for a good, understandable version. Thx, marknr@hushmail.com
Never mind, I found it. Just need to start paying attention.
Beautiful Marty.
Very refreshing.
Scn is missing the Jesus factor.
Like I said before, I see no evidence scn really works without the Jesus factor fully implemented.
Keep up the good work.
Blessings,
Dio
Good to see you catching up on reading. Funny how the truth of things has been said many times and yet ignored and how it has to be phrased differently because after all we are all different yet the same.
Thank you , again. Your blogs are always well worth coming to and reading. I don’t always get a chance to see all of them, but I certainly appreciate every single one I have seen. So thanks again Marty. 🙂
Welcome back Marty.I keep a copy of the tao te ching at hand at all times. Whenever I start to get off track or confused or riled up,I stop and open it up and read. It puts things right in perspective. Never been much of a bible reader but if Mitchel translated it I wll give it a try.
I found many parallels between philosophies – from which I deduct there is a simple truth. I was recently reading up on St Thomas Aquinas (13th century priest, intellect and philosopher) and thought that many things he said seemed to correlate with LRH. Apparently (now I write from memory) a rival of Aquinas called him “the blind leader of the blind”! Aquinas was said to have had some sort of a revelation from God while praying in the latter years of his life. He was said to be levitating, with tears streaming down his face. He later said that after what had been “revealed” to him, all his writings seemed like “straw”. Fascinating story – and he refused to say what had been revealed to him. It seems there is a truth to be revealed.
Yes, the unconditional love of God as defined in Christianity is a breathe of fresh air, gives one hope, lends credence to the idea that “Man is basically good”, It is not the antithesis of LRH, but it is most certainly the antithesis of the RCS.
interesting bit about “fully present in himself”. TR O.
I have just started reading a book – “Antifragile” by Nassim Taleb, economist /philosopher – he says if an organisation is “fragile” (susceptible to permanent damage) it needs a lot of rules, if an organisation is “robust” (not easily susceptible to damage) it needs fewer rules, and if an organisation is “antifragile” (tends to improve or get better when knocked or damaged), it needs no rules and can run on “virtue”. (Paraphrasing liberally of course). Fascinating how that ties in with the latter part of your post Marty.
KSW is needed for the fragile (requires constant correction and narrow paths for fear of stepping off the production line), Virtue is needed for the antifragile – those who can take the knocks and stay on the path. And with God’s compassion I guess one becomes antifragile, can take the knocks and needs only virtue to get on through life.
Saul was a Jew who persecuted the Christians in the early years. He had the Damascus experience (on the road to Damascus saw a light and was temporarily blinded by it). A few days later when his sight returned, he is said to have converted to Christianity (saw the light) and then called himself Paul – who is known to us as St Paul. From persecutor to saint. All are welcome in Christianity.
It fascinates me how different the philosophies are and yet have so many common threads that run through. ARC could be called “compassion” (in my estimation) and yet the RCS – particularly the Sea Org and staff – expect that a person not be themselves, but are required to assume the beingness of a “staff member” or “SO member” – “cold, chrome steel”, with rudiments knocked out and realities constantly challenged and channelled, communications controlled (disconnected from the rest of the world – external influences discouraged etc.) No ARC – they cannot confront a PCs case – let alone their own (RCS’s) case. They cannot seem to snap into PT. They have really lost the plot.
Thanks Marty. I’ll have to add this one to my reading list. Coincidentally this weekend I’ve started Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels. She compares the recently discovered Gospel According to Thomas with the Gospel According to John. Thomas preaches that the light of God is within each of us and if you look for it you will find the truth. Not surprisingly, when Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to consolidate the various versions of Christianity into one approved state religion, Thomas and his “every man for himself” approach didn’t make the cut. On the other hand, John is familiar to every Christian today when he advocates that believing in Jesus is the sole source of salvation and you must take that on faith even if you don’t see it manifested in the real world, or else you will be doomed to eternal damnation. The parallel is striking to the debate over KSW vs. “What’s true is what you yourself have observed to be true”.
As an interesting side note, whoever actually wrote the book of John was so determined to dead-agent the Thomas approach that he personally created the legend of Doubting Thomas, which does not appear in any of the other gospels.
I’ll settle for the Buddhist factor. Alssoo L Ron Hubbard would disagree with you on Jesus, just saying.
This describes the opposite of dm.
My Monte identity has been around for over 62 years now. It was only about six months ago that I finally realized that Jesus was a metaphor. Some of you might find what this guy has to say to be of some interest.
Amen.
Just reading this fills me with love and hope.
Taleb is an interesting thinker. I have recommended before his book The Black Swan.
A Christian that I audited through Grade 0 last year informed me that in her church the basic “truth” was that God IS Love. And when you learn to truly love, you will have found God.
She had some major upsets with some family members and was a bit hostile toward them. I explained overts, withholds and motivators to her. Explained that if we do this correctly, she should be able to find the love in the situation and be closer to God. We did it correctly, she found love and lo and behold, the hostile family members one by one also came around.
LRH said that part of greatness is to continue to love one’s fellows despite all reasons to do otherwise. Jesus and Siddhartha and others had said the same thing thousands of years earlier.
My christian friend was an avid reader, a teacher and loved to compare current ideas to christian thought and concepts.
I’ve met other christians who decried any wisdom not contained in the bible.
I’ve also met scientologists with the same myopic viewpoint about LRH’s writings.
We now have nine grandchildren. I’ve seen every one of them in that state where all is love and love is all. Where the joy they felt at that moment was enough to wash every care from every person in the room. And none of these children are scientologists or budhists or christians.
To the best of my knowledge, neither Lao Tzu nor Jesus, nor Siddhartha started churches or tried to personally benefit from the wisdom they shared with the world. Their influence lives on.
Two thousand years from now, I wonder (with amusement) what will be said of us…if anything.
Hi Marty, I am glad you mention Stephen Mitchell, because he is married to Byron Katie. http://www.byronkatie.com/2009/02/a_happy_marriage.htm I have been reading her books and find them fascinating and helpful and had wondered if you’ve read any of them. One example would be “A Thousand Names for Joy” co-written by Mitchell and Katie.
When I read Katie, I think she is what I would define as “clear” — at least what I hoped to achieve by going clear through Scientology. As I write that, I realize each person might express “clear” in their own way. Katie is uniquely herself.
My question, mostly to myself but to you as well, is: Is it possible to become “clear” without Scientology processing? Katie is an example that has made me wonder about that. I also wonder if I should even care about achieving the state of clear. I guess, contained in that wondering, remains the desire to do so. 😀 k
This article was picked up by The Networking for Christ Daily:
http://paper.li/MFMMiltonKeynes/1311972284
Hi;
I’ve read some articles about how the Gospel of John was written for the sole purpose of debunking the Gospel According to Thomas. No one can know for sure of course, but it is interesting how the two are in conflict.
Thanks for that data. I did not know of her, but will read a book now that I do.
I believe it is possible to go Clear without Scientology.
Cat Daddy,
I don’t look to LRH for agreement on anything.
I evaluate and I decide.
Personally, I like Joe Larabell’s viewpoint:
http://larabell.org/ultimate.html
Dio
Nice.
“”To the best of my knowledge, neither Lao Tzu nor Jesus, nor Siddhartha started churches or tried to personally benefit from the wisdom they shared with the world. Their influence lives on.”
Awesome Less, I think that statement sums up our philosophical conundrum.
Katie’s first book about her journey of awakening and transformation is a fascinating read and one of the first ones I read after deciding to exit the RCS. It was of tremendous help in undoing the programming. Interestingly, it’s called “Loving What Is”.
When I first got involved with Scientology, I, and the others, were in ARC with ARC things. Evolution. Personal awareness. Magic. Mystique. Past Lives, future lives, conditions, healing through LOVE, wisdom and understanding.
Slowly over some period of time, the culture of Scientology turned into “being in ARC with OUT ARC things.” Getting into ARC with idea of militia, domination, fair gaiming, fighting, spies, domestic violence and domestic terrorism. Exclusion of others. Organizational “SECRETS”. US AGAINST THEM!
Yes. I watched the people go into ARC with out of ARC things. Although I distanced myself at this point, it did restimulate some things from former groups and I found myself going into ARC with out of ARC movements. Mutual out ruds.
You can take a person and put them INTO ARC with ARC purposes. And you can also take a person and put them into ARC with OUT of ARC purposes. Yes. That is what I said. Put people INTO ARC with OUT ARC purposes, by mutual out ruds.
The idea of loving, this is a being in ARC with ARC purposes. Your love drops down when you go into ARC with out of ARC purposes. “Let’s kill off all psychs!” “Let’s fairgame the critics!” “Let’s put a head on a pike!” “Lets destroy the American Medical Assosciation!” And you get this group, like CCHR, who gets into ARC with out of ARC purposes. And then you get them going around restimulating the fuck out of everyone. And you get this paramilitary organization called the Sea Org, who says they are going to put ethics in on planet, and you get these people who go into ARC with OUT OF ARC purposes to S T O P. H A R M. A T T A C K. S U P P R E S S. And then you suck in these other oppostiion terminals that are in ARC with OUT OF ARC purposes like, “Let’s kill off all the Scientologists!”
It is easier for me to have lunch with a homeless person who is on an ARC purpose line like, feeding the pigeons in the park. Than it is for me to try to eat across the table from someone who is spewing about the progress made to kill off some professional group.
It is easy to forgive people when you are living in ARC with IN ARC purposes. Unforgiveness is an out of ARC purpose.
I just cleaned up a big ARC break today in a session. I have broken ARC with OUT OF ARC PURPOSES. It was one of those positive ARC BREAKS. Have an ARCX? “Whew yeah! What a relief!” LAUGHTER! Things sure can get wierd and wonderful at the top of this bridge.
Yeah a couple of things went off the rails in this adventure sometimes turned misadventure. Luckily, all the repair tools are still in our command. It can be fixed. I believe in miracles. It would take a miracle. We are the stuff of miracles. I see it everyday I read the other posts on this blog and know, there are people out there who are intelligent, and who choose NOT to be driven into ARC with out of ARC purposes.
You are right. Hubbard took on a big game. Some things went right some things went wrong. Whatever got restimulated was not because of Hubbard. I had that case there before I ever walked into the front door of the Church, it just got restimulated there. Scientology is still the only way I know, to handle these upsets and rise above them. And that is a healing that I know works.
Jesus was an inspiration. Some have written that he was a healer. My auditor is a healer. And an auditor in ARC with ARC purposes, has more tools to work with and more knowledge, than Jesus had. Heaven has been laid at my feet many times, right here on this earth. How some people have turned this into a hell, is a magic of it’s own. But refusing that invitation merits a glory badge to all of us.
Here’s to being in ARC with ARC purposes.
The quotation emphasizes the attitudes of love, compassion, joy, and the fact that these qualities embrace everything that is earthly.
This resonates very much with the four limitless qualities taught by Buddha:
– Love
– Compassion
– Empathetic joy
– Equanimity
that are at the top of the Buddhist scale of emotions.
If there was no Bible, or if no one bothered to read it, no one would know there ever was a person called Jesus. Jesus quoted the Bible of his day – the Old Testament. If you say ‘it doesn’t matter what you believe’ or ‘you don’t have to believe anything at all,’ what’s the point of even thinking? You’re in danger of throwing out the ‘baby’ of faith with the ‘bath water’ of cultism.
It’s also intellectually vapid to simply discard the bits of Jesus’s teaching that you don’t like, and say, ‘Oh, Jesus couldn’t have said that – it’s not what I think he’d say – someone else must have added that bit…’ It’s like going through LRH’s lectures or policy letters and then saying, ‘Oh, no, Ron wouldn’t have said THAT – this is a fake – this isn’t the original…’
Thank you for the link.
+1
Simple Thetan,
Believing something does not make it true.
So I want to know all the ways that you can go clear, other than through auditing? Please list. Even one way would be good.
Dio
In his bearing, in his very language, he reflects God’s deep love for everything that is earthly: for the sick and the despised, the morally admirable and the morally repugnant, for weeds as well as flowers, lions as well as lambs.
John 1:29 On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world!
From A Course in Miracles: I have been correctly referred to in the Bible as “The Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.” Those who represent the lamb as blood-stained (an all too widespread conceptual error) do NOT understand the meaning of the symbol. Correctly understood, the symbol is a very simple parable, or teaching device, which merely depicts my innocence. The lion and the lamb lying down together refers to the fact that strength and innocence are NOT in conflict, but naturally live in peace. “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God” is another way of saying the same thing. Only the innocent CAN see God.
[…]
A sane mind is NOT out for blood. It does not confuse destruction with innocence, because it associates innocence with strength, NOT with weakness. Innocence is INCAPABLE of sacrificing anything, because the innocent mind HAS everything and strives only to PROTECT its Wholeness. This is why it CANNOT misproject. It can only honor man, because honor is the NATURAL greeting of the truly loved to others who are Like them.
To be accurate, L ron Hubbard does pay tribute to Bhuda and Christ in earlier lecture material that I have heared. But later they become Implants in Scientology as even Evolution Theory in a lecture in if, I remember correctly 1958. That I found on Wise Old Goat’s website
Leaves Auditing as a tool, that will survive, even the od psychologist has shown intrest if I might believe comments on the boards throughout the years. It will be intresting to see in this liftime how things will turn out.
Hi Komra,
I hoped that you would also like to hear the input of someone who has overseen the making of Clears too. Marty’s experience at taking people up the gradechart is not known to me but my experience of doing it is and when I hear a question like this I care enough to speak up too.
I have no doubt that it’s possible to reach very keyed out states also known as a release in 1000s of ways in fact. The state of Clear and is an individual experience of what the end result of the processes that help a person get to that product feel. It’s not a shoveled path so to speak but one that has had the snow melted away.
I can tell you that when someone achieves it, when you are running the session and the state is reached – the person’s indicators and the meter reflect that fact that something significant has occurred that hasn’t been observed in the pc thus far on their path toward Clear and onward to OT.
It’s real all right. Is it the magi state or one that turns on esp abilities does it enable you to levitate or read a book 1000 miles away – not that I’ve seen. Is it something worth attaining? are the OT levels I-VII worth the effort? is there any valid reason for caring anymore about these levels of ARC aka the tone scale? or KRC for spiritual gain? is LRH tech useful to the bigger picture of reaching levels of wisdom and compassion that all rivers of religion supposedly lead to? I think so. and so do the people I know who have trained and applied the tech to others for decades.
I began my own journey with meditation – exteriorization being the highest level of separation from the bank and it was a temporary state and not an end-all as evidenced by life around me in others who were “enlightened” and listened to.
Your journey, each of our own pursuits toward all-loving, compassionate and successful peacemakers or teachers or whatever it is that would describe someone who positively influences life around them is a personal journey and exploration in to what will enable them to be just that and be so stably through and through.
I have seen the tech work in this way. I have seen that when it doesn’t there is a locatable reason why that can clear the path for someone to continue on their journey of self-discovery and embrace their love for others as a true beingness. That is what can be done with the tech LRH provided. It’s being applied here in GA but only to those who have their own eyes on their mountain – not someone elses’ idea of the mountain or someone elses’ point of view of it.
It’s there to be had if one wants it and it’s not for them if they don’t. My personal experience is that I needed to find something that could bridge the gap between walking the walk versus talking the talk. “OBEY” and “Have faith” never worked for me in the long term and always felt like armor – let the experience of auditing be your answer to the question and don’t rely on the viewpoints of others, myself and Marty’s included, to guide you. That is what OT is about IMHO. Clear is a step in that direction.
I’ve observed that all the rivers do lead to the same ocean but to get there you need to be the journey not the passenger.
Love, Gayle
Love this…Just recently finished The Course and it changed my life 180 degree’s…Everything in my life is different. This is powerful stuff!
Dio,
You replied to Simple Thetan…”Believing something does not make it true.”
For me, that is an incomplete thought. I would expand the thought by stating: Another person believing something does not make what they believe in true for me.
IMO, the foundation of creation is belief. It is the belief in the creation that manifests its existence. This is why it is possible for me to believe what is not true for anyone else. Our interpretation of perception i.e. the reality we experience is based upon what we believe (you might prefer the word postulate to the word believe).
I too believe that it is possible to go Clear without Scientology. Indeed, I believe that there are probably thousands of ways for one to go Clear.
“Somewhere” on the Class VIII course of ’88, LRH comments that early Christianity produced some Clears.
Donald, the truth is we don’t know exactly what Jesus said. The fishermen and other blue-collar types he recruited as followers were not scholars who recorded his words of wisdom, and Christianity was a strictly oral tradition for several decades after his death. Those disciples scattered and several of them attracted their own followings. Eventually literate people were attracted to these movements and wrote down what their choice of disciple was saying that Jesus had said. Soon there were dozens of these written “Gospels” and they did not closely agree one to the next. Then in AD 325 the Council of Nicaea waded through the bunch and selected those that fit most neatly into Emperor Constantine’s plan for a State Religion. And that’s your New Testament as we know it today, not counting any disputes in translating from Greek to English.
Anyone of course is free to assume that this messy process resulted in the divinely revealed Word of God, but I think if you want to really know what Jesus was about, some study and critical thinking is a better approach.
Nice. Jesus (and he genuinely did exist – see Tacitus) kicked *ss and took names. He was the Chuck Norris of the early AD years. (P.S I was raised by devout Christ-ians – but personally undecided) Hope all’s well with you and Mrs. R.
Keep smiling!
IEG xx
Aeolus,
Glad you mentioned this book. I also enjoyed Elaine Pagels’ “The Gnostic Gospels,” her book about the relatively recent (1945) discovery of a number of lost Gnostic writings near Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt. In some ways, Gnosticism is on the early history track of the Scientology movement. Others on the Internet have noticed some fundamental similarities.
Gnostics believed that one found Christ in oneself. Know thyself. Inner visions were the trademarks of true Gnostics. An earlier approach of Scientology’s path to knowing, if you will. In any case, these two books by Elaine are very interesting reads for people trying to put Scientology into a long-term historical perspective. I liked them both.
These emotional wavelengths are more and more even
and harmonising with a body which is healthy and the
cells in a good working-together order as we hit the upper
levels of the tones. ARC is an integral part of this whole
thing.
In the 60’s and early 70’s this was the concentration. You
are so right Oracle. Then it all got into the effort band and
out of ARC with so many institutions and agencies and we
jagged the flows. We can ask why and where did it all
originate? Slowly the church changed. Very simplified but
just IMHO.
This gospel according to Jesus is basic truth.
LRH has said the same thing in Science of Survival.
Monte,
Likewise, please state as many ways to go clear as you can.
Dio
I like this post it portrays Jesus a real person, not as the Catholic church has twisted around when the emperor Constantin ruled over the roman empire. Sometimes I suspect that the whole being born in a stable thing is some clever marketing back in the day. Alsoo the Bible onley containts 4 of the Gospels about the men while there were a multitude of Gospels, beginning with the Gospel of the brother of Jesus, Gospel of Maria Magdalena and the gospel of Thomas. All obscured by the Catholic church. Jesus a sane individual amongst much Insanity.
In brief, most of what we call the New Testament was written by the end of the first century – even liberal commentators accept this. The Gospels and so forth began to coalesce into the NT long before the Council of Nicea – this idea of ‘lots of gospels’ is a largely false one. It’s been spread by Gnostic writers like Elaine Pagels – and more especially by the popular novels of Dan Brown. You’ve only got to read the Gnostic ‘gospels’ to see that they are utterly different from what we now think of as the NT. They are based on a handful of manuscripts mostly written in the 2nd and 3rd (and even later) centuries. The textual and historical provenance of the NT books are far more reliable than those ‘supported’ by Ms. Pagels et al. This is not really the place to conduct a long discussion about the NT texts, but I shall read Mr. Mitchell’s new book with great interest.
I am currently listening to LRH’s lectures on Technique 88 – and reading the Koran. This is to dispel any ideas that I am a narrow-minded Bible idolater (although I am a Christian!)
This wasn’t in italic. Is it a quote ? From whom ?
“For this teaching which I give you today is not hidden from you, and is not far away. It is not in heaven, for you to say, ‘Who will go up to heaven and bring it down for us, so that we can hear it and do it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, for you to say, ‘Who will cross the sea and bring it back for us, so that we can hear it and do it?’ But the teaching is very near to you: it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.”
LDW: Wonderful, valuable story and essay. The journey from confusion, to faith, to wisdom can be fraught with troubles. Wrong turns are everywhere and even encouraged by almost everyone. There is a sea of right and (mostly) wrong information at every turn, Every bit tainted with endless emotions and opinions.
But one thing has remained constant throughout and that is Love. The name has changed according to who is using it and what we think of them. Affinity, affection, oneness. But they all are the base upon which truth is built.
A few years ago I “Found Love”. Not the glassy eyed, superficial, moon bat glibness or forced artificial love, but a genuine affection and closeness for all. It came about recently from a realization of the nature and origin of individuality, oneness with theta and that relationship. It really changed me. However this is acquired for someone, when it really ‘clicks’, it changes them. I see others as wonderful, beautiful beings, weighed down by their fears, angers and confusions. When someone pisses you off, you can know that they are suffering more from it more than you are.
Sure , you punch a mugger in the jaw and take back your wallet, but all the while seeing the beautiful life buried inside of him. See if you can brush a little of that weight off of him. Maybe nudge him in a better direction. You never know what influence you might have.
Makes life a lot more enjoyable. A lot more fun.
MarkNR
AKA: To be released from the obsession to physically carry pain and it’s attached emotion around with you 24 hours a day is a tremendous relief to say the least. But it is one specific brick in the wall separating us from great happiness. Then you can peek through and see more clearly what’s on the other side. A structured, Scientology-like system is the only workable way I know of, right now, to remove this one particular brick. When honestly and fully done, it’s value far exceeds the effort. Beats watching CSI on TV or mowing the lawn. Just my observations.
marknr@hushmail.com
I was never interested in Xtianity until my Father introduced me to the book ” The Five Gospels” Here a group of 200 + biblical scholars all
voted on the things Jesus alledgedly said. Up till then my knowledge of Xtianity was limited to Hymns sung at school, and the devil does NOT
have all the best tunes, and UK radio 3 occasionally broke of from
classical music and broadcast church services. The sermons were delivered
seemingly at the tone level of pain with great reverance and seemingly little meaning of anything of sense.
My father was an Episopalian Priest, an Excorcist and a Healer,and one of the voting scholars. Several factors were used in judging whether any particular saying was correct. For example anything existing before Jesus’s time was rejected, anything that had a clear Christian origen was rejected, Jesus was not a Christian. Another was for something to have survived so long it couldn’t be mundane but should be radical, perhaps iconoclastic.
” Turn the other cheek”
Then the parable of the Good Samaritan:-
“Jesus answered, “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ ”
We saw an example at least in spirit when The Oracle wished
she had invited in the OSA spy and given him food and a bed for the night.
The Scholars considered 91 sayings as authentically something similar to what Jesus said.
If you google the title you can find that Amazon has many secondhand copies at $4-55. Also much critical comment.
MarkR,
In order to become a master of life, you have to know two things:
1. what to do
2. and what not to do.
Knowing what not to do is learned from mistakes and failures.
We tend to learn more from mistakes and failures than from successes.
So it is important to be thankful for all things including mistakes and failures and other adversity.
Calm seas do not a good sailor make.
Dio
Marty,
What does Stephan Mitchell say what “born again” means?
Or: what does: “you must be born again” mean.
I don’t plan to read the book, because I am “constipated” or “over run” from reading and have too much on my plate to read much of anything.
🙂
And I have lots of books that I want to read.
So any more books would just go on the pile.
But I am very curious to know if he as something to say on that data?
Thanks,
Dio
The devil dosn’t even have all the best singers 🙂
Donald, your post does not actually address the question of whether Jesus was in fact himself a “gnostic” teacher. Nor the question of whether the NT as we know it was put together the way it is, for political purposes as much as for any other reason..
In fact, in the Eastern Orthodox traditions, and I assume it must be so also in Roman Catholicism, the Bible is a secondary source and the deepest meanings of the teaching is considered to reside in the liturgies and symbolic trappings of these faiths,.
Great story Les, thanks for sharing. We are immortal and the Scientology we have learned from will travel with us. It will be we, that keep it flowing through the time. What we learned from it, in the REAL Golden Age, which was when our endeavors were based on high ARC purposes, has already vanished between the threads of corporate veil.
I too recommend her book “Beyond Belief” in particular. I think the history of Scientology so far has uncanny parallels to her view of the development and establishment of early Christianity. That took about 400 years, Scientology has recapitulated that history in about 60 years.
I see Scientology as originally a “gnostic” teaching; Miscavige has turned it upside down into a “religion” of faith, donations, and cathedrals. Partly by editing “scripture”, but in fact by recasting LRH’s work into “scripture” in the first place, then putting his own spin on it all. Which process LRH himself did initiate and foster, I grant, with KSW-type publications. But from the beginning, Christianity has its own versions of that kind of thing.
I see no reason to think Jesus’ teaching was not originally a gnostic teaching, which had its gnostic elements watered down or removed for political reasons as time went on. This was in fact a historical dynamic between established Islam and the “gnostic” Sufis, who were sometimes put to the sword for speaking truth to power.
There is no reason to think Christianity was designed purely as a tool for political control. In that case, Jesus might well be an entirely fictional character.
The Bible is not considered a primary source in many Christian traditions. For example, the far-flung Eastern Orthodox churches consider the Bible a kind of “secondary” source, with the meat of the teachings embodied in the rituals, liturgies, chants, vestments and even the architecture of the churches, Converts go through a substantial “initiation” into these “mysteries”
Komra, I agree… A Thousand Names for Joy is a fine book. In my opinion, going clear is entirely optional… a state defined by Hubbard that may or may not have meaning for you. Much more meaningful to me was the “god cog”… that we are all aspects of the same oneness. Nevertheless, if anyone models clear it is Byron Katie as she describes her life in A Thousand Names.
I must agree with Aeolus. If we use the GAK materials put put by MIscavige, we cannot even be certain we know exactly what LRH said, because we know the materials have been edited. And it has only been 60 years since LRH spoke/wrote them!
How much less can we know the fullness of what Jesus may have said?
How many chroniclers/compilers back then, 1,900 years ago and since, may have cherry-picked what they had of Jesus’ words, to select only what they “liked” of his teachings, or what made sense to them, leaving the rest on the “cutting room floor”?
Not to mention the fact that we are reading translations of translations…..
Cat Daddy, I have seen where LRH talks about Christianity being an implant but not that Christ himself was an implant. He said Christ did exist; he did live.
However, I’ve never seen anything at all about the Buddha or Buddhism being an implant. The LRH’s lectures and writings I’m familiar with are all contrary to any such idea. Where did you come across that data? I found nothing on the wiseoldgoat website about it.
However, I did find on wiseoldgoat the LRH excerpts where he talks about evolution in relation to implants. Thanks for that tip. Here’s the link https://www.google.com/search?q=evolution+theory+wiseoldgoat+buddha&oq=evolution+theory+wiseoldgoat+buddha&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0.15670j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I had the same question and figured it was an inadvertent mistake not to have it in italics too. But just to check, I googled the first part of that quoted paragraph and found it in a google books link about the same book, which confirmed my assumption.
Whatever happened at the Council of Nicea it wasn’t good for the spiritual core of the Christian thought.
If there is something like a second coming of Christ, than it is the rediscovery of this core on a spiritual level.
Am I a Christian? Has Jesus asked his disciples to call themselves Christians in the gospels, anyplace? (This is not meant as an offense.)
I was raised in a Christian tradition, but I was attracted to different religions since my early childhood. My understanding and appreciation of the christian thought has deeply benefited from my spiritual journey.
‘What is Greatness?” was PR.
Scientology, in a secular sense, is Satanic.
There is no God in Scientology, and Hubbard taught of a multiplicity of Infinite Minds.
Add Jesus to Scientology and it’s not Scientology anymore.
All that remains are a few counseling methods, and not much more.
In Scientology there is no conscience (an impediment to be audited out), and Good and evil are merely considerations.
What is needed is a new subject.
Thank you Gayle,
Well put!
Greta
Hi Dio,
I am grateful that you made this request of me. You prompted me to look. Guess what? Believing that there are probably thousands of different ways for one to go Clear and making a list of those ways…is not the same thing. Personally, I cannot, with any certainty, come up with even one modality to with which to begin the list. That noted, my belief that there are probably thousands of ways to go Clear still holds.
Dio, I must say that I am so relieved that I do not have to rely only upon DN and SC auditors to “Clear the planet.” I think that we have arrived at the point in the movie where it becomes common place that miracles abound. And I have no doubts whatsoever that LRH and the work he did has been a significant contribution to getting us here.
Gayle, Thank you so much for the thoughtful and caring reply. love, k
Monte,
LOL.
Dio
DIO
In order for me to become “master of Life” I only need to do one thing. Master every aspect of life. I’m thinking 200-300 yrs.maybe longer, but I’m in it for the long haul. “You cannot be the bad effect of anything you are fully hatted on.” Conversely, you will be the bad effect of everything you are not fully hatted in. I’ve looked closely for over 40 yrs. and have found this true at every instance.
I have also learned that most of the lessons I learned from my successes and failures were wrong. When I learned a correct lesson, I got stuck with it and couldn’t think with current conditions. I am currently in the process of reviewing my past lessons and it has been very rewarding.
Wisdom is far more than gathering data, as those who have gained wisdom throughout history have learned. It is regaining the ability to think and know and do. So far, my journey has been very fruitful. But that’s just my story. I’m very interested in yours.
“True freedom is the ability to handle anything that comes along.” (Me)
marknr@hushmail.com
What is needed is comprehension and understanding, and those then taken to heart This is sorely lacking in churches. For example, “Reason and the contemplation of optimum survival” is a big part of “conscience”. This is because “optimum survival” is the maximum possible survival of all and everything, including everyone.
When words are treated as “PR”, it implies the speaker does not himself take them to heart.
Hi Les,
Loved this post.
“God” is a word for which people have given many meanings and many concepts. But “God IS Love” is the best definition of “God” that I have ever heard. I first heard it from a Christian Scientist many years ago and adopted it as my own. It works for me. And you are so right that this universal concept can be found in many religions. Another example is the Quakers who refer to themselves as the Society of Friends. Recently I saw a mural on the side of a Quaker meeting house (church) which reminded me of your description of your grandchildren. It read:
“Walk Cheerfully Over the Earth, Answering that of God in Everyone”.
Oracle,
Just wanted to acknowledge that I really GOT that! All of it, I think.
Wonderful. Thank you for both the historical and the philosophical perspective on Scientology.
Oracle really being Oracle today!
And I agree that you have a wonderful auditor, too. 🙂
TKU 🙂
MarkR,
My goal is to be a jack of all trades and a master of many.
Dio
A voice to take you closer to the Gods
O~that is the best description of the things that I thought went wrong in Scn: going into ARC with out ARC purposes.
When I arrived at the doors of CCLA in 1977-it was exactly what I was looking for. I felt unadulterated love and a hope for the change I wanted to make to make this a better world. For I knew if I was to contribute, it meant I needed to change my viewpoints and become a better person. The bridge seemed the best answer. Was it perfect, no, but neither were any of the religions I studied, however it offered a more directed, doable path.
I left Scn in 1998, when I could no longer agree with the constant stops, heavy ethics and out-ARC. So imagine what happened when I told my DoP the church was in a lower condition with me because the GAT was a total inval of Flag being 100% technically correct!
So, I thank you, this post has been a blow down for me. You’ve described exactly what went wrong and why. And especially the process of disconnection, which is the epitome of an out of ARC purpose. It’s never made sense, since I do agree with LRH that Communication is the Universal Solvent.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again-what a joy it is to come to this venue and read Marty’s posts and comments like yours.
With much admiration, Midge
I can not express how incredably mad I am. Hubbard just trows a bunch of random dates around AAARRGGGH I am not a bookburner but History of Man ugh almost makes me one. But I am against bookburning.
“Now the Darwinian theory—now, I’ll give you some idea of the influence of false track upon this society. The Darwinian theory, which probably influenced Pavlov to the greatest degree, is just an implant. That is an implant from man to mud.”
http://wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_vs_evolution.html
And granted on the christianity thing altough
SCIENTOLOGY: “Jesus is classified as below the level of Operating Thetan, but as a “shade above” the Scientology state of “Clear”.
He gets about 6 out of 10 How nice. I wonder how Nelson Mandela gets rated or Marten Luther King
You made me read this HCO below again. again a bunch of randomness I can’t describe how angry I am that this has been put into the minds of people. I geuss a mind must be filled with something or it gets unhappy.
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/heaven.htm
It must sound real nice to a Scientologists that only have Hubbard as a source but it’s a slow character assasination of the “competiton.’
Valkov,
You hit a point which I noticed in my own experience.
In northern Catholic school, we did not focus on the Bible.
Every Sunday we heard a carefully chosen passage from the priest.
When I moved south, I met people who were reading the Bible every day
and had extensive knowledge of it.
Geoge M. White
Who is Jesus? What is Jesus? Did Jesus really exist? If he did exist was he really the only son of God and was he crucified in our place so that we could join him in eternity? These questions and many more have come and gone throughout my life as Monte. And in the course of their coming and going I have experienced a wide array of contradictory perspectives and beliefs. That noted, following are some of my current thoughts that I hold with regard to Jesus and the Jesus story. However, before I launch into whatever it is I’m going to say, I feel I must let you know that my current perspectives on this subject have been greatly influenced by seven books of which six contained content that had been, in part or entirely, channeled. FYI – in the order I read them (for me, the sequence was critical) these books are: The Starseed Transmissions, Starseed the Third Millennium, Return of the Bird Tribes all three by Ken Carey; I Am Word by Paul Selig; Remember Who You Are by David Icke; Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard; and the most recent one and the one I’m continuing to work my way through…A Course in Miracles. Note: A Course in Miracles is the only one of these books where the source of the material claims to be Jesus. Although, I have come to recognize that in all seven books, even though, the words, metaphors and allegories are vary widely the message is identical and the ‘source’ of the message does appear to be the same.
I now believe that there was a human identity, a human form that was on the scene some two thousand years ago and that this form was used as a communication device for Spirit to make a call to seemingly individual Spirits (fragments of Spirit) trapped in an imaginary world of their own creation to return to the spirit world. The REAL world. The human form was killed but it had nothing to do with sacrifice or sin. The crucifixion was not the message. The resurrection was. The message – there is no death.
For many, unfortunately, Jesus represents salvation through sacrifice, pain, suffering and death. People, it seems, tend to focus more on the crucifixion than on the resurrection. I believe the sacrifice, pain, suffering and death parts are totally man made in order to safeguard the illusion of individuality and separation from a Creator.
Who and what is Jesus? Well, for me, Jesus is a symbol of Love, Unity, Peace and Joy. Jesus is the ‘Big ME.’ the ‘Higher Self’ that, with infinite patience is encouraging the ‘little me’ to let go of the dream world and return HOME to the REAL world.
The book I am reading now, A Course in Miracles, is a dictation given by Jesus to two scribes. The dictation began in the late sixties and took somewhere around seven years to complete. Some people look upon this course as the “second coming.” I don’t have an opinion about that one way or the other. I have noticed in reading the course that ‘I’ is not often used. When it is used it is usually concerning some Bible scripture that Jesus is either confirming or correcting. For the most part ‘we’ is used in delivery of the course materials.
If you’re interested, you can read a few things from the course that Jesus has to say about Jesus. It is not lengthy. Here’s the link:
http://courseinmiracles.com/about-the-author/jesus-is-speaking/about-the-author
Also, if you’re interested, in chapter two (Civilizations) in the book Return of the Bird Tribes by Ken Carey, a story is told by an unnamed entity (my guess it’s Jesus) about incarnating in human form in order to deliver a message and how that message was cut short. While I could not find an excerpted text version of this story online, I did find it being read by Grace Butler on YT. I’ll go ahead and add it here.
CD, I think you probably have a point about Hubbard’s “slow character assassination of the ‘competition'” – which I figure would have been related to some particular ser fac of his.
I remember there was a lecture on one of the Academy levels (which would have been a BC tape as well), probably Level IV, where he talked about a service facsimile of his own which he had run in session. I recall that he described it as an incredibly huge and dense black mass. He even specified the dimensions (I don’t remember the figures but they were impressive). That description of his own huge ser fac makes a lot of sense to me as, for one thing, it seems to illustrate his tremendous power in terms of ability to create energy.
On the other side of the coin, It would also illustrate his huge ability overall – which probably relates to why he was able to discover so many truths and to develop a technology that so many people still rave about, including on this blog alone. At the same time, LRH’s ser facs (and whatever other case he may have had going on) also did an incredible amount of damage to Scientology. Nevertheless, I expect that in the long run the contributions he made will be prove themselves to be even more incredible.
If I remember right, Cat Daddy, you have commented on not having done much Scientology (if any?) so you may not have personal reality on the positive “side of the coin”. But I’m sure you’ve noticed how many people there are who have attested to having had great gains with the tech. Others were less fortunate – some quite unfortunate – as they were affected by the damaging aspects that LRH and others entered into the picture.
I think Jesus has a purpose to lift others. To enable others. To heal others. To empower others. And all through TEACHING others.
These are the purposes we all aligned with when we began to explore Scientology.
Somewhere along the way, the main purpose of the Church turned into a purpose of inventing victims. That is the product you see out here on the streets after 30 years with Miscavige at the helm. The voices of victims. That is his product.
Our biggest crime as group “members” is that we refused to shape shift into victims.
If one turns to and listen to the October 1954 lecture of L Ron Hunbbard on hypnotism one should wake up on how you can “Implant” something into someones mind.
A good auditor stears away from that
Treufax, hi I am or at least was an Anon, and a Dutchologist, loving my country because our judge said to Scientology that FREE SPEECH comes before COPYRIGHT
There are more people that have been damaged by Scientology than have been helped by it, But I do recognize AUDITING, probably the only thing I will next to the gradïents. Auditing can be anything the AUDITOR wants it to be,
You Scientologists have a lot to prove and damage to undo.
Listen to these two clips and disregard the “Enthata discription”
Hubbard was not againts psychiatry or Psychology he practised it himself, on you folks
Understanding this lecture will make you “OT” in my book, just keep reading books and lectures by a multitude of people and sources and revisite this lecture from time to time.
learn
Hi Marty – We’ve communicated a couple of times. I’m not a fan of Scientology, especially corporate, but I like the role you’re playing now, assuming I understand it, a significant assumption. First, I totally support Monique and wish her the best in her efforts against the “church”.
Secondly, I find your recent writings interesting, even compelling. I have long been a fan of Ken Wilber and this, and some other things you’ve written recently are, to me, engaging and quite enjoyable, both for myself, and the apparent broadening of your horizons. The last sentence was rather presumptuous but I hope you understand what I’m getting at.
I have a silly question for you as a long time SO member. I was on staff at the LA Org in 74 and then joined the SO. Actually I came in virtually at the same time as Hy Levy, whom I’m sure you knew. I was saddened to hear of his passing. At any rate, one of my jobs at the LA org as overseeing the PC folders. Sounds more important than it was; I was simply making sure they were secure and where they were supposed to be. My question is about OTIII. Not the usual one, but something I can’t figure out. I swear that back in those days there was reference to OTIIIX, the latter representing the “wall of fire”. Am I out of my mind? Ok, let’s limit the answer to this one topic. I have seen no contemporary refferences to the X part. Unfortunately my only auditing experience was sec checking on the Excalibur , after which I became seriously ill.
Best wishes to you and Monique
Rick M.
Lest we forget, how long have thetans been around? Maybe there is an OT somewhere that lived in Rome around the year 0 B.C. and knew Christ personally. If he did, you know what he would probably say today: “Oh. Jesus Crhist! I knew him!”. So why rely on L. Ron Hubbard for everything? 🙂 He could not have been in two places at once or could he have? 🙂
In Autobiogrphy of a yogi, Paramahansa Yogananda tells us of beings called mohavatars who are sent here to teach the people how to alleviate pain and suffering from their lives. Jesus was believed to be one of these beings. It was also believed by some that Jesus spent a period of time in India studying with the yogis. In this book, we meet many yogis that definitely were at cause over matter, energy, space and time.Very interesting reading.
Thanks Marty, that’s a wonderful quotation, very much in keeping with this quote from the Bible, Matthew 10:7: “And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'”
At hand. Right here. Right now.
Thanks Rick. ‘Broadening of horizons’ is a compliment as far as I am concerned, as it is precisely what I try to stay engaged in. On the OT III question, please email me at rathbunmark@yahoo.com.
I am reading this as we speak….Love it..Love it…Love it!!! 🙂
There was a IIIX…I did it, but it’s gone now I guess.
Excellent summary Oracle. Thanks for the clarity!
There is actually a movie about a buddhist monk who dies and they go and find his reïncarnation. They find 5 possible candidatetes. In the end the monks decided they were all 5 the Reïncarnation of their beloved old friend. He had played a joke on them and came back in 5 reïncarnations
“Absolutes are unattainable.” – well, so is keeping a technology or approach unaltered despite the many hands it passes through.
Mosey, Marty,
What a day. On any blog there is ” hip hip hurray” about your affidavit.
Lots of joy and hapiness. Even your worst critics are supportive .
What a day 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Continue your good work .
Don’t forget that you’re helping 1000’ds of people with your actions .
Monte – please go back and read the original post. If those amazing words strike you as having any truth then please re-consider your approach here.
There are so many ways to explain the universe, and given the right spin many sound credible.
I weep. I weep for humanity that we have got ourselves into such a state that people might think that David Icke has any ultimate truths.
Something to ad: I understand that Jesus might have been to India instead of been in the Desert,Alsoo that he actually had well of parents. Anyone who can shed a light on that from his own viewpoint ?
As the song goes: Heaven is a Place on Earth, bummer for all the other planets tough.
Cat D,
I have done a fair bit of reading on Jesus, besides the bible.
I also saw a document providing evidence and argument that Jesus visited India.
I have a book titled “Jesus in India” but I have not read it, yet.
Had it for 30 yrs at least.
Just cannot read everything I want to.
My main source of information on Jesus outside the bible is the Urantia book. A most interesting, channeled book of almost 2000 pages.
Part IV of the book: The life and teachings of Jesus>
Is a detailed story of Jesus from birth to “end”.
Including his family life. He had many sisters and brothers.
Very interesting reading.
I read a good part of it.
I will not tell you more, so you have to read it for yourself.
🙂
Like LRH said, the way to understand a subject is to read all subjects of comparable magnitude in the known universe.
Dio
CD, PS.
The book in on line in ebook.
Or if you want a hard copy, let me know.
Dio
Sid,
I agree with your POV on David Icke.
He lost credibility with me when he wrote (when he was writing about the blue bloods being reptilian) in his book: The Biggest Secret, that Hillary Clinton’s vagina looked like a demon.
I have to ask if he ever saw it?
When I read that line, back in about 1998 or so, I put the book down and have not opened it up since.
Dio
Hi CD. Good for the Dutch on putting free speech before copyright. And
I fully agree with you that the result of auditing greatly depends on the intention of the auditor. This is something LRH himself believed – i.e. that intention is always the senior factor, in anything.
Thanks for the clips. I listened to both and would summarize them as follows: Auditing is meant to take control of the pc just enough to where the pc – who had NOT been in control of himself or any other dynamic (or in much less control than he could be) – can now be more in control, and in a way that benefits all concerned. Being in control is being positively effective in life.
You wrote “There are more people that have been damaged by Scientology than have been helped by it.” To some people it seems that way, but I don’t know how it’s possible to determine one way or the other.
However, I agree that there is “a lot to prove and damage to undo.”
The most interesting thing was in the last couple minutes of the second clip. It’s the idea that if you specialize on the person as a CASE by only auditing him (and not training him), in the end you will not wake him up but put him further to sleep. That’s because it will eventually get to the point where the person is being controlled too much of the time.
This is one of the biggest errors in Scientology, in spite of the fact that LRH also said 50% of the gains of Scientology are on the training side of the Bridge. The vast majority of Scientologists have done very little training, especially in relation to how much auditing they got.
In that second clip, LRH said that when you specialize in TRAINING the person to handle other people’s cases as the auditor himself, it is demonstrated to him that he can be in control of all the factors of the mind – and he wakes up more and more. Hypnotism is just the reverse – it demonstrates to him that he is not in control and that somebody else controls him.
Lawrence, my point wasn’t that LRH said Christ lived so that makes it so. I was just responding to a comment that indicated LRH thought he had not lived, when in fact he said the opposite.
As for whether someone could be in two places at once – LRH says it is possible. And if LRH says so… Just kidding! But I say, why not? 🙂
Hey Sid, thanks for your concern but no worries. Just because David Ickes book was in my line up doesn’t mean I endorse him or agree with what he says. His book I found to be very tedious reading and somewhat boring. However, that said, there were some things he mentioned that really connected some dots for me. And, a week or so after I had finished reading his book and was in a contemplation regarding some things he had spoke of, I had this really remarkable shift in perception that most definitely changed my trajectory. This was a positive shift.
Sid, I don’t want you to weep. Following is an excerpt from a blog I wrote a few years ago titled The Amazing Journey of Self Discovery where I was using the metaphor of being a prospector looking for gold (a truth seeker seeking truth). These two paragraphs pretty much sum up my attitude in this journey I’m on. Although, I no longer look for truth. Instead, I look for viable illusions.
Excerpt:
Now that I have detached myself from the notion of there being a “one stop portal to all truth”, I am once again actively engaged, without restriction, in the exploration of self. I am again out on my own and free to roam with my tenacious ethereal burro, pickax, sifter, a bit of dynamite and, can’t forget this…my trusty pan. And what fun this unrestricted prospecting is! I must say, though, that I have become acutely aware of the fact that what I see as gold is not necessarily what another might see as gold and vice versa. I have come to realize, on a whole new level, that truth and reality, as the journey of self-discovery itself, are all most definitely of a highly personal nature. But…that’s my gold. It might not be the next person’s.
I have also learned that finding even the tiniest speck of gold in the most unlikely of places or mistakenly picking up some fool’s gold and thinking it’s the real thing are neither one to be discounted in value. For I have discovered that such experiences can affect my trajectory in ways I would’ve never imagined and open doors I would have normally walked right on by without even a second glance (probably would not have even recognized them as doors to begin with).
“Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.” – Miles Kington
Wow! I love that: viable illusions! I look for viable illusions too!
Marty ~ THANK YOU for your affidavit! I hope and pray that you and Mosey are able to expose the Corporate SHAM that is Scientology and David Miscavige once and for all – for the good of mankind and to save those still trapped inside the cult! I am totally supporting you both and applaud your courage to not be SUPPRESSED by the Church of Scientology and it’s “ecclesiastical leader” – David Miscavige!
Thank you so much!
In about 250 BCE, the Indian emperor Ashoka sent Buddhist monks in Syria, Persia (Iran), Egypt, Greece, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_the_Great
That is not so far from Palestine, so Jesus might have encountered Buddhist monks in the desert and that might explain the remarkable similarities between Buddhist and Christian teachings.
Christian teachings appear to be some kind of a synthesis between the Old Testament and Buddhism. A mixture of influences, so to speak.
Geuss who gets courses for free
Maria, the most viable illusion I have found to date is that of forgiveness. Forgiveness void of any judgement whatsoever. Forgiveness without judgement does not acknowledge a wrongdoing. Instead, in its application it states that there never was a wrongdoing to begin with. The concept that a pure spiritual being can become aberrated, can do wrong, is an illusion. Therefore, forgiveness is an illusion. It is the illusory solution inherent in the illusory problem. It is the universal solvent in an imagined world of perception. Empirically, I find that it has even more viability than admiration.
Best of wishes on your journey Maria!
“We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of our exploring will be to arrive where we began and know the place for the very first time.” ~ TS Eliot.
Monte,
RE: “There can be no wrong doing.”
If some drugged out, demented aberree came along and broke into your house at night, tied you up and raped your wife and daughters, then killed them, then took you outside and sodomized you, then burnt your house down, and took all your money and stole your car and drove away, would you consider that not to be a “wrong doing”, ?
Would you just forgive the aberree, and carry on with your life?
Dio
Thank you
That’s a great question Dio. Thank you.
My initial reaction would be to kill the son-of-a-bitch and make him die a thousand agonizing deaths in the process. And that would probably just be for starters. However, I am at least enlightened enough to know that allowing myself to dramatize such a reaction would do absolutely no good for anyone. Indeed, reacting in such a manner would only serve to make the unreal seem to be real and perpetuate the lie. So, would I forgive this person, forgive the incident, forgive myself and all others in the incident and go on with my life? Yes, I would but it might take a while. I can make this statement because I have come to recognize that in forgiving without judgement, whether it be a common cold or a mass genocide, I am helping to undo the pretense of fear, hate, revenge, victim, persecutor, rescuer, suffering, misery, pain and so on that seems to be constant component of this world’s script.
The scenario you described Dio and much, much worse is being played out in this world by the second. Fortunately, though, none of it has ever even really happened. It was only a very bad and scary dream. It was not real and it had no actual power to hurt. A bad and scary dream, while one is having it can seem to be so solid and real but only for as long as the person stays asleep and dreaming. To get out of a nightmare one all one has to do is wake up. That said, it does seem, gradiently speaking, that a person first wakes up within the dream before they wake up from the dream.
When Jesus was on the cross he supposedly said something along the lines of…Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Notice, there is no evaluation in that statement. Following Jesus’s lead, I practice forgiveness (itself an illusion) without judgement and as I do I witness the viability in doing so.
Dio, think of the computer screen on the movie The Matrix whereby the matrix can be ‘seen’ and interpreted. The world of perception, to me, is looking more and more like what’s being shown on that computer screen in the movie. It is all the same. Basically, the world of perception exists first as a blank screen until I assign value and meaning to what I project upon it. In other words, I am constantly judging whether something I’m perceiving on the screen is more or less. More or less affinity, more or less reality, more or less communication and more or less understanding. I am making it up as I go! And, it only exists in the mind. The problem has been, though, that I have been choosing to make the world up out of fear. Now, I have changed my mind and I’m choosing to make it up out of love. As I consciously choose to create from love instead of fear the world I perceive and experience is less and less threatening. There are not any where near as many things now as there were previously that can rob me of my peace of mind.
I am grateful for both you and your questions Dio and I wish you all the best on your journey.
Monte,
Thank you for your reply.
I know the Amish and menonites forgive like that.
I have read the CIM a couple of times in the late 80s.
I attended a few CIM group meetings.
It was ok.
But it did not solve my problems.
The other people who attended the group meetings were also terribly messed up, ungrounded and granola types.
Granola types are those who are not flakes are fruits and nuts.
One particular guy who was the main financial supporter of the CIM group, was a guy I worked for.
In social conversation he was all CIM talk.
But when it came to business, he was a real asshole, extremely unhappy, extremely difficult to work for, extremely critical and I could never do anything right or right enough.
He would take anyone who wronged him to court and sue him.
I worked for him for four yrs and finally my mind and body gave up from the stress and abuse and I got liver cancer. I spent the next twelve yrs recovering from that.
I read 100s of other books too, searching like mad for answers to my problems.
I was also a new age therapy junkie, doing everything I could get my hands on.
Nothing helped until I got auditing.
Then reading all the scn books put everything I read prior into alignment.
Dio
Well, there is one lesson in CIM that quite apparently never got home to you: the cathartic effect of rising above the judgmental mind.
Marty,
Is there a difference between what I said, and yours and your wife’s attitude and lawsuit to DM and the COS?
Dio
If you don’t see the difference, there is nothing I can add to my 500 pages of books and thousands of pages of posts that will change that.
I made the statement: “The crucifixion was not the message. The resurrection was. The message – there is no death.” Could be that there’s more to it than that. In the teachers manual within the course in miracles I just read a wonderful elaboration by Jesus on what the resurrection is. It’s not that lengthy but It’s too lengthy, I think, to paste here. If you’re interested here’s the link…
http://courseinmiracles.com/what-is-the-resurrection/teachers-manual/what-is-the-resurrection
Yes Marty:
Were parts of OT-7 Ever incorporated into OT-3 or was it just dropped? Original OT-7 was allowed to be done any time after 3 and 3 could be done again, calling it OT-3X.
Marknr@hushmail.com
Dio, you read CIM a couple of times. LRH said something to the effect…number of times over equal certainty. Certainty in a world of perception will only mean that one is certain about whether something is more or less. And certainty, I have discovered, is like everything else in a world of perception…it’s transitory. My life as Monte, for example, is a constant experience of vacillating certainties with regard to something being more or less true, viable, reliable and so on. It would not surprise me Dio, that if you were to read CIM again that whatever your certainty has been about the crs, it would not be the same now.
As you know Dio, CIM is about retraining the mind to forgive. That mentioned, here is a link to short comment by Jesus about forgiveness that is more than a little appropriate to our exchange.
http://courseinmiracles.com/1-what-is-forgiveness/workbook-lessons-part-two/what-is-forgiveness
Dear Dio
Having read your post addressed to Marty referring to what is being “born again” it prompted me to recount my own experience.
Back in the ‘70’s I had finally realised that no matter what I did I was not going to get back into good standing with the Church of Scientology. I was convinced Scientology worked, but could not make sense of why I had been expelled from the church. I had reached the “state of Clear” but ever since Level V I had been struggling. I had been assured that after doing Level V I would no longer be “homosapien” but now be “homo-novis” – new man, in fact this level was to be so life changing that I had to attest that I would never discuss its contents with anyone not qualified to hear this material.
Here I was several years later ‘Clear’ and expelled from the church. I was desperate to discuss this “classified” material with another soul but unable to because of the attestation I had made that I would not. And that is when it happened!
I was lying in bed going over my predicament when suddenly I heard a voice. When I say I heard it, it was as if I had heard it with my whole being, and the words that it said were “you’ve sold your soul to the devil”. The voice spoke with such authority I just knew it was true and in that moment I surrendered. As I lay there with all the fight gone out of me the voice said “Jesus Christ is your saviour” followed by the words “God so loved the world that ………”It was as if I had become weightless and I was being drawn towards this light above me. I was filled with what I later described as “liquid love”. I now understood spiritual concepts that previously would have meant nothing to me. I knew I needed “spiritual food”, I knew my life had changed in some profound way and the next morning I went down to St. Hill to visit the examiner. I said “Jesus is alive today” and he replied “Thank you your needle is floating”. It was good to have what had happened to me validated in this way.
My next step was the local church since I felt sure the words I had heard “God so loved the world……..”came from the bible. After blowing a big grief charge in front of the local curate I was told that I had had a conversion experience like Paul – then Saul, on the road to Damascus.
From then on I threw myself into Christianity with the same enthusiasm as I had with Scientology. However each time I mentioned Scientology to my new found “friends” they said I must renounce it, because it was “of the devil”.
For many years I called myself both a Christian and a Scientologist. I had realised that the essence of Jesus’ teachings was love, and that the totality of Scientology could be summed up in understanding. I was now back at St.Hill but the CofS was not happy when I said that if there was a difference between what the Bible said and what LRH said, I would have to go with the Bible. The Christians were not happy with me because of my failure to renounce Scientology. In an effort to appease my Christian friends and on their insistence I burnt all my Scientology books including two e-meters (warning if you ever do such a thing remember to take the rechargeable batteries out – it made a bit of a mess of our sitting room fireplace!) The end result of this action was that I was re-declared at St. Hill.
This conflict between Scientology and Christianity went on for some time until I suddenly realised I was no long a Christian or a Scientologist, I had become a ChristianScientologist, and that is where I am at today.
To love is not enough if ones desire is to help their fellow man, and understanding alone is very dangerous, however love and understanding are an unstoppable combination.
To be born again is to reconnect with God, and to experience the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Power Processing is a counterfeit of the filling of the Holy Spirit. Yes it is a reconnection with source but not infinite source. As the saying goes, better is the enemy of best.
And the message of all that was, ‘do not judge others, as God will not then judge thee.’
Pip,
Thank you so much for posting your story.
I loved it.
That state you call and describe as “being born again” has so far eluded me.
I have a 40+ yrs old PC who was so abused from babyhood (by his father) to even long after he left home, “there is hardly words to describe the abuse) that he is considered autistic.
As child growing up, he had angels come to him, (when his father was up to his “no good” and planning something “insane” ) and tell him what to expect, what to do, and how to handle it, or where to go and what ever was needed to know, to protect himself. I think there were usually around 7or 8 angels at a time, dressed in white.
His father was always trying to kill him “accidentally”. One instance, his father bought him a poisonous snake for a Christmas present, and put the snake in a box and wrapped it as a normal Christmas present and put it under the tree.
The angels appeared to him when he woke up, and told him that there was a poisonous snake in the box and not to open it.
He began reading the bible in his mid teens. It was his comforter.
Next: To me, every day religions, spiritual teachings and philosophies are like, grade school. Scientology is like “university”. It is way above gradient for those in grade school.
Today, when I feel like some “everyday type religion”, I watch church services and religious programs on TV, on Sunday mornings.
I can watch them for several hours and get a number of different viewpoints, even Islam and Hindu and more.
It is not safe to mention the word “scientology” anywhere outside scn groups.
I am learning to say scn type principles in non scn terms as much as possible.
Thanks again for posting your story.
Dio
Exactly Marty! Though, I would include this…the illusion of a hell and all that implies is no more.
You are such an explorer Mary. I love it! Thank you for providing so many opportunities for me to learn. You are greatly appreciated.
Hi Monti
Before I watched the video you posted by David Hoffmeister, I had been watching a video posted by a lady on Miracle_E_Pals_UK@yahoogroups.com
and wondered whether you are also a subscriber to this forum. It is well worth subscribing to, because some good stuff gets posted and I am sure some of the folks there have been into Scientology.
It turned out your video was not the same one that Maureen put on Miracle e-pals, but I think they are both worth watching so here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsU_cPW0b3k . For me this one has a flavour of what it was like in the early days in Scientology down at St. Hill.
Pip,
Another thing: As as is often stated, scn is an excalibur sword. It cuts both ways and penetrates stone.
It is as much satanic as it is Godly.
It is as much positive as it is negative.
It is a trap for fools and a power and a freedom for the wise.
And only the people who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear and the mind to understand will not get caught in the trap.
The wise and the brave will go where angels fear to thread.
Dio
Pip, thanks so much for sharing that video with me. I really enjoyed listening to it. I had a good chuckle while watching it. I was thinking about David Hoffmeister and how I had watched a few of his videos from early years and just didn’t find his style of delivery appealing. But now, as I watch his videos I have no problem with his ‘style.’ I concluded…he must have evolved. Then a questioning thought came in and asked, who is interpreting the perception of David? LOL! I instantly got it. Not to say that David hasn’t evolved but it’s my interpretation of David that has changed that has really made the difference.
You know, it was LRH that introduced me to the idea of their being a split mind i.e., a reactive mind and an analytical mind. But, as I have discovered through CIM, there’s so much more to the story of the split mind. That said, I have no doubt that I misinterpreted a great deal of what Ron had to say and didn’t even recognize much of it for what it was. I know that if I were to go back and begin rereading my SC materials that I would be able to recognize much now that I could not before.
Btw, I especially liked David’s story about the card deck. I find that a very similar story is playing out with me too.
Hi Dio
Thanks for both of your replies. “Scn is an Excalibur sword” – that’s an interesting thought. I Googled Excalibur but the only thing that really caught my interest was part of the Arthurian legend where to draw the sword from the stone if achieved one was destined to find the Holy Grail. I understand LRH wrote a book in the early days called “Excalibur”, I wonder what the connection there is. I agree with you that Scientology can be as equally used for evil as it can be for good. I often try to explain to my Christian friends that at the bottom line the technology of Scientology is a set of tools, and just as a hammer can be used for knocking in nails, it can also be used to hit someone over the head. Same tool one it’s a hammer, two its exhibit 1 the murder weapon.
You mention that “being born again has so far eluded you”. Are you aware that there are in fact two selves? There is the ‘me’, and there is the ‘I’. The ‘me’ is our soul nature; the ‘I’ is our true nature. The ‘me’ experiences death; the ‘I’ is eternal. I spent many hours agonising over the Enemy Formula. I think it is important to differentiate between ‘who you really are’ and ‘who you truly are’. In Scientology the agreement is that you are a thetan but who you truly are is theta. You are ‘that’ and what is ‘that’ it is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. When all the valances and identities have been stripped away all that is left is I AM THAT, I AM. You may find this video of interest The Moses Code: Beyond the Secret http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTrcL3sNlzo
Thanks again for your input.
Regards
Pip
Hi Monte
It is interesting that your perception of David Hoffmeister has changed. One of the things I got from that video is this idea that when someone “gets up my nose” to endeavour not to react but look at what is being triggered in me and try to see it as an opportunity for some healing.
Pip.
I ack your reply.
The only way to spread the “good data” of scn is to integrate the principles into what ever you are talking about or doing, and not using any scntgeze or make any reference to scn in any way.
TIR does a pretty good job of it.
And other spin offs such as LandMark.
In trying to get the “message” out, you always have to keep in mind:
That any idea, any datum is only as good as it works.
And trying to tell anyone about scn does not work.
Unless you are talking to some gullible “no mind”, (cult material) which is what the CO$ looks for in recruits.
Dio
FLUNK , Nelson Mandela. Gandi, countless others
lol at L Ron Hubbard “granting some beingness”
Hi Dio
I have only just realised who you are, sorry about that. I often mention you as a living example of the effectiveness of Dianetics. Incidentally what is TIR?
I struggle with not naming the source when talking about Standard Tech. Somewhere LRH has said that “ARC always precedes an ARC Break”. That being the case it’s only a matter of time before someone is going to realise I am using ‘scntgeze’ and so to avoid an ARC break it seems wise to me to be up front and handle any bypass charge if and when it first comes up. I am in an interesting position being neither a Scientologist nor a Christian and yet being ‘pro’ both.
Hi Pip,
I am just too busy and not organized enough to do all the comm I would like to do.
“ARC always precedes ARCX is one that I did not hear before, and I realize it is true.
That is sort of similar but opposite to “Even a fool is considered wise when he keeps his mouth shut.”.
Most people’s problems are caused by what comes out of their mouths, and not so much by what goes into their mouths.
Re: talking scn stuff in lay language…
What I try to do is to keep it light, keep the scntlgy data on a low gradient on lay language, then maybe if they hang around long enough, and the time is right, they can be introduced to stronger meat.
Dio
Pip,
PS: I did not read your post over carefully the first time, and missed your question: what is TIR?
TIR is Traumatic Incident Reduction. TIR is Dianetics and scntlgy clinicinized by ex scio and psychologist Frank Gerbode. See : TIR.org
Oracle, what an excellent analysis! ARC with out-ARC purposes – this is a very useful concept. Is there anywhere to read more about this?
Hello,
When one reaches out for Jesus, He will respond. That’s His promise for us. Since we’re all created as unique individuals, God knows how to communicate with each of us on a very unique and personal level. Even though I am a scientist with a university degree (just for you to understand where my thoughts and ideas were formed), God has shown Himself to me in ways that go beyond understanding. The most beautiful thing that He gave me is living a life in freedom: free from fear, free from shame, free from guilt and free from condemnation. That’s because Jesus took that upon Him when He died on the cross. It only requires to follow Jesus (i.e. God the Father embodied in a human body). On YouTube one can look up for instance ‘Todd White’ to see what that looks like.
With love from the Netherlands.
B Verkerk