Contemplating the toxic waste that has come from the tortured mind of David Miscavige and relayed to the world by Scientology Inc and their ethics-challenged attorneys of late, I thought it might be a good time for some clarification.
During my hiatus from the subject of Scientology – 05-08 – I spent a great deal of time studying the abolition movement of the 19th Century. That included a lot of reading of the works and about the lives of the leading lights of America’s second revolution; including Paine, Emerson, Garrison, Thoreau, Harriett Tubman and Frederick Douglass. I worked during ’06 with an educational entertainment teacher I met at the Buffalo Soldiers Museum in Houston. She recruited me to play Old John Brown to her Harriett Tubman. We were invited to perform at the 2006 NAACP convention in Washington D.C. We traveled with all NAACP delegates by chartered train to Harper’s Ferry for the NAACP’s special commemoration to Brown and W.E.B. Dubois. Here is “Harriett” and me at the reconstructed old fire house at Harper’s Ferry where Brown made his last stand:
During this period, probably the most influential work that directed my attention back to Scientology and contemplating the effects it had had on me and others was Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave. Particularly compelling to me was Douglass’ description of his childhood realization of the first – and most viciously enforced – mechanic of slavery. That rule was that slaves were prohibited to learn. It is understandable. The slave holders correctly reckoned that if a slave learned to read it might lead to independent thinking. It might also lead to reading books and learning about the world outside the plantation. And of course that could lead to notions about expanding one’s horizons and leaving slavery in order to do so.
This 05-08 period really informs everything I have attempted to accomplish since. Abolition of slavery.
My first public utterance about Scientology was posted in February, 2009. It has been continuously posted since, as the Welcome Page on this blog. Since that time it encompasses everything I have said and done in relation to David Miscavige, Scientology Inc., the subject of Scientology and Scientologists.
This ride has entailed operating an underground railroad to assist with the physical escape from slavery. Remember the chronicles of John (JB) Brousseau and Daniel Montalvo. When those bright or desperate enough to make that move called, we were there for them (and still are should the need arise again).
Having counseled somewhere upward of 150 people directly, and hundreds more through correspondence, and having continued our own education and evolution through the journey, I find we are still holding true to the original representation on the Welcome Page. However, having evolved and having studied the origins and mechanisms of Scientology and its particular effects on Scientologists from all walks of life, we have learned about its sophisticated mechanisms that create mental slavery.
It was puzzling to us that David Miscavige would continue to be obsessed with us after we did everything in our power to move away from confrontation, give him the benefit of the doubt in published essays and books, and simply assist individually with those former slaves who needed a hand straightening up their spines and freeing their minds.
It was only a review of this broader history and its context that answered the conundrum for me. It serves to confirm for me that in fact we are accurately discovering and communicating the slave master’s ‘tech’ for manning his dwindling plantations. His response is the same as the nineteenth-century slave holders’s response to the abolitionists. That is, attempt to re-enslave them or to ruin them utterly of course if possible, short of re-enslavement.
This review also informs my future. My work is only just beginning.
Scientology’s slavery will be abolished.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
You have my support in which ever way I can give it.
DM put his heart and soul into putting himself into his position, hardly unenviable.
Great, great photo, Marty. Good beingness for you.
Marty, I cannot think of a higher calling. No man is free until all men are free. I am not surprised to read this post. Its as natural to you as breathing. Once a Bodhisattva, always…..
Quite a photo. Have you thought of doing film?
Timely topic! Just last night I finished reading Jefferson Hawkins’ Counterfeit Dreams. His desire to create, despite the craziness around him, the “true Scientology” of real ARC resonated with me as that was the carrot that drove me for 43 years. The idea that “if this one crazy person could be gotten off the line things could finally go the way they should…” It never occurred to me that Scientology itself was making these people nuts until very recently. Jeff’s observation that Scientology often brings out the worst in people puts it very succinctly.
Thank you for keeping the abolitionist underground open, Marty. I’m with you.
Yes! I have been commenting on the slave labor used by Scientology for a long time!! FREE THE SLAVES! Scientology could never survive if it had to pay “employees”. Thank you for understanding this and holding the door open for escapees. !! And for giving us this perspective.
Also… per your referral… I got Stephen Mitchell’s translation of the “Tao Te Ching.” It’s the best I’ve ever read. Because of that I also discovered his “The Gospel According to Jesus.” Fabulous insight. Thank you for the referral.
Have you ever read anything by Osho? If not… you can find all of his books for free as downloads at: http://www.oshoworld.com. Enjoy. Pretty amazing.
You have my support! Keep up the good work. If there is anything I can do to help let me known..
Firstly, great photo! Good analogy and good to see your purpose hasn’t faultered. Me thinks the whole train wreck in CW and the pending law cases will go a long ways to bringing down the slave master. At some point soon, next year, he caves, he has to, or commits something atrocious in desperation that will bust him, and that will for sure be cause for celebration.
There is a direct parallel between the prohibition against slaves learning to read and write, and the Church of Scientology’s attempts to stifle the Internet, stamp out “other practices”, and punish members who partake of any sources of information regarding Scientology or spirituality that is not officially sanctioned by them. And in the long run the Church will decline and fall just as surely as did the institution of slavery.
At least in the 19th century those beings “knew” they were slaves.
You could say that Scientologist are more unaware…they are in much worse shape.
Yes. They are slaves to the only road to freedom.
Marty we may have crossed paths in 2006. I was working on a production with HLG Jr. on the Niagara Centinnial celebration at Harper’sFerry that same summer. Was that the event you were at?
“Scientology’s slavery will be abolished.”
More power to you Marty and Mosey.
You have done so much to pave the way for achieving this objective. When slavery became “politically incorrect” — that is enough people proclaimed it to be objectionable/unconscionable — it was ended.
Voices raised in opposition to Scientology slavery continue to grow more numerous and more widespread. There is a point at which even the most entrenched slaveholder can no longer resist the abolitionists not because he changes his mind about his right to enslave, but because it threatens his personal well-being to continue.
There are a LOT of people out there already who owe you a debt of gratitude for what you have done. More will come to appreciate it as time goes on. More will speak their minds. It takes courage to be the first to stand in front of the tank in Tianmen Square, or to opposed ANY apparently all-powerful juggernaut. But as more voices join the chorus, the threat diminishes in direct ratio to the number speaking out.
I urge everyone to do what they can, in whatever way they can, to support the efforts of Marty and Mosey.
That is so true of every religion and that is how they try to prevent you from looking and finding out the truth. Any believe just stifles the mind from looking and finding out and finding your own path to spiritual freedom. One just has to look at India where they have more gods and believer’s than anywhere else in the world and the country is in a total mess. Or look at the world as a whole; zealous religious believes are the main reason for most conflicts in this world with hundreds of slaves dying every day for them.
No, it was getting done the ceremony for Brown that W.E.B. Dubois (placing a plaque) attempted to do in the 30’s, but was rebuffed by racists physically from doing. We placed it up at the campus of Storer college.
Marty,
As a never-in, it has been fascinating to watch your intellectual and spiritual evolution, which is clearly still continuing. As it should be. There is so much knowledge in this world – great thinkers of yesterday and tomorrow; historical events that, when analyzed, reveal more about the nature of humanity than what any one “prophet” could write. IMHO, when we stop growing, we die inside. But growth takes courage, because to stay in one’s comfort zone and not question is so much less taxing. But souls only advance when they are challenged.
You have all my support and prayers for what you and Mosey are so bravely enduring.
Your post today is a powerful one. Derek at the Bunker wrote an impassioned comment about Sea Org slavery the other day, as he was one once. The slavery in Scientology is two-fold – the inurement of the publics – through both mind control and the social pressure of the group; and the actual slavery inside the Sea Org, where both adults and innocent children are treated barely better than inmates at Guantanomo.
Thank you for bringing this issue out in the open.
PS – You actually are quite well-cast as John Brown!
Ditto
A simple, double-pronged message:
Bully, bully!!
Bully to you (in the meaning of “Cheers!”) for all you are doing and have done in this regard.
And “Bully” to RCS and DM because that’s about all they’re able to do and be anymore.
I’m so proud of you, Marty! My admiration for you and Monique, your three books, your blog, your never ending demonstration of courage and persistence has multiplied admiration a million fold. And now this, this correctly placed move with your newly declared promise to abolish Scientology Slavery,,, well, let’s just say, I’m overjoyed and exterior, thanks to you!
Words fail me in finding an appropriate acknowledgement. It’s time for action.
Please let me know how to contribute to the motion or if you need my location and numbers. Also, please realize that you have a home here with me in Canada at moment’s notice or without, anytime and that my resources and loyalty are yours,
For good!
Lou
“Scientology’s slavery will be abolished.”
I am with you on this Marty & Mosey.
That’s an excellent goal, Marty. But the ultimate enslavement is to ignorance, and to free oneself from that requires education. I am glad that you are working on learning about and exposing the actual mechanism of enslavement used by Scientology.
Scientology is, in a way, purveyor of ignorance. My interest is to penetrate that ignorance on which not only Scientology but other religions also capitalize.
.
Haha, the photo. What a great shot.
And you look good with the beard. 🙂
You’re right, the slavery of Scientology must end.
For those lawyers, OSA agents that read Marty’s blog to use as legal fodder against Marty and Mosey: do you realize what side you are on?
OSA agents, is this why you got into Scientology? To seek destruction of your fellow man?
You have been duped. It was about spiritual freedom and sanity. And now you spend your days seeking to fight enemies that you never had before.
People are leaving the church in droves right now. Families are being torn apart. Please give it some thought. You can have a life outside of the prison. There is a great big life out here.
Come to the side of good. Help these people free people.
sounds like a nice personal goal.
I like your posts. Not sure where you got the idea that inmates at the Int Base are treated anywhere near as well as inmates at Guantanomo. My understanding is that at Guantanomo they get a good nights sleep and much better food than miscavige lets his slaves have. Am I misinformed?
As one of the freed slaves, I can’t thank you enough Marty for the help you gave me after I escaped. Your good works will not go unnoticed or unpraised in history.
David Miscavige is already being written down in history as a tyrannical sadistic enslaver that met his match when he met you.
The underground railroad never looked so good. Keep up your great work. You are not alone. Your friend and comrade. Robert.
Won’t you help to sing?
Ah, very interesting. Storer College was the original site of the Niagara movement meeting in 1906 and our event too. Funny, in 2006 (not the 1930’s) we had racists threaten to “bomb” our event and a few KKK yahoos showed up to stand around a look idiotic for an hour at the most – and prove ignorance and bigotry was still alive and well. It didn’t deter the event, just led to a lot more federal agents being there to protect the area and check for explosives.
I am working on a PROJECT RECOVER AMERICA. The purpose of this project is to generate a grass-roots movement to forward education to help America recover from its current down trend, The best education is to help a person learn to think systematically on his own. That can be done through any subject. I do it through math. It is a lot of fun.
Let’s each one of us start offering help in that direction. Don’t worry about what to educate people on. Just educate them on what you do best.
.
It has been an intresting journey Marty and Mosey.
Ode to the Human Spirit
Yes, you are misinformed. Last I heard Int Base residents aren’t being force fed through the nose and they did make a choice to join the Sea Org and go to the Int Base. No one chose to go to Gitmo or rot there for a decade with no charges against them in a state of permanent limbo.
I will post the 14 characteristics that summarize indentured servitude in the Sea Organization. This is a good essay of Marty’s to name them, because slavery in the Sea Org and the culture is such a reality to someone like me.
The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
The group’s leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
Members’ subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
As Lawrence Wright stated the case in GOING CLEAR, Scientology is a prison of belief. Other religions may be the same way, but prison is very toxic.
.
There is ignorance everywhere. India is not free of it, nor is United States. As long as there is ignorance, there would also be slavery.
.
I have pondered how to help Marty’s work; my very small income does not allow much in the way of cash donations. Today, I requested that my public library stock his books. When the e-form asked why I was making the recommendation, I quoted from the Welcome Page.
As I have stated previously, I am a never-in; the voice of Marty and his fellow warriors is stirring and inspiring to many outside the Sci battle, in our confrontations with the powerful petty tyrants in our own circumstances.
Thank you, Marty.
A lot of these points make sense but I would question the following.
“Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).”
How is meditation a mind-numbing technique? There is either ignorance or bias underlying the above statement.
.
Thank you Aurora.
“If you really want to enslave people, tell them you are going to give them total freedom.”
Marty, a great and just cause. You have my full support.
I am with you Marty and I intend to actively participate on whatever takes to makes this happen; you can count on me, let me know.
Vinaire ~~ to clarify, meditation is very useful to many people who have cultivated their practice of it within a free spiritual path. However, in the context of my post, I was speaking of “mediation” as used in abusive groups as a form of thought stopping or mind-numbing.
In meditation one seeks to still and quiet the mind. A cult can pervert this definition to mean “stop all critical thoughts about the group and its leader.”
There is no ignorance or bias in my post. I was simply commenting on how spiritual practices are abused by manipulative groups.
Ivy, your post is both true and TRUE, however i would like to add that the “plantation” mentality of SCN extends beyone the Sea Org. The “elite” scientology public, many of your OT VII and VII’s creat their own little slave holds.
Typically what they do is start and run some small niche business, then employ all or nearly all Scientologists. This is typically what you see in SCN enclaves like Clearwater, FL or concentrations in LA or San Fran. They will talk some bullshit about how they want to create an ever expanding super successful biz where everyone can eventually make a killing and pay for their Bridge and live a nice lifestyle while doing it.
The reality, however, is they like to keep the biz small but very profitable–for themselves. Usually they pay well below their industries average pay scales for the local area and usually with NO benefits. Furthermore, they flout federal and state labor laws. For instance, if “stats” are down, they will require the entire staff to work “all hands” like SO members until stats rise–off the clock. In other words, free labor. They subject staff to SCN style Ethics interogations and policies (though usually not metered).
While they live on the beach in a multi-million dollar house, drive the latest mercedes S-class, and are Patron Megalomaniatrotious for every DM fundrasing scam on the books, their staff are really the ones paying for it through thier free and heavily discounted labor.
I was walking to course one day at Flag when i got cornered by a local SCN public elite. She was hightly pissed at me. “Moonshot, you out-ethics dog, how dare you steal Julia from me.” I had recently entered a business arrangement with Julia to get one my of products into a certain type of retail store accross the country. Julia had recently done this very successfuly for Elite Girl. The deal was, if Julia met certain volume goals, she was to get a 5% commission on all sales the company for 5 years, wether she handled the accounts or not. If she hit an even higher goal, it was 10 years, plus a 10% stock ownership position of the company.
By the end of that first year, Julia had blown away all the goals. Instead of honoring the agreement, Elite Girl paid for her next status then informed Julia that she was off that project and would get no further income from it as all her biz development were now “company accounts.” No stock was forthcomming. She was now to do the same thing in another market with a different product for Elite Girls company starting from scratch on her income/commissions.
Needless to say, Julia wasnt a happy camper. We were friends and when she told me about it, i told her about a product i had comming up i needed to roll out and market and it was right up her alley. I was up front with her that this product probably would only be hot for a year or two, but i would form another company just for this product and give her 50% ownership right up front. She was really happy and jumped right on board and away we went with it.
Whew, Elite Girl was pissed. She wanted to know why i didnt call her first to see if taking Julia was OK. I’m like, what? are you crazy, Julia was very unhappy with you and you didnt follow through on your promises, It would have been un-ethical for me to contact you behind Julia’s back. Elite Girl didnt see it that way, she felt i was poaching on her plantation. Blah, blah blah. KR’s and recriminations flew.
Anyway, the examples of this kind of thing are legion, but the slavery abuse while most flagrant and nasty is in the SO, thats not the only place it occurs.
I took Marty’s comments to mean the mental slavery of Scientology as well as the actual slave labor. Marty you looked good in your costume! Much better than that goofy faux naval costume anyway!
Nice, Vinaire! This is why I became a teacher, and what keeps me inspired despite every barrier the educational bureaucrats put in the way of teachers.
You rock! 🙂
Marty, you are the Martin Luther, the Harriet Tubman, and the Clint Eastwood of Scientology.
Everyone else took all the rest of the awesome comments and tributes. All I can add is my deep admiration, respect, and BOOYAAAAA – ism. xoxo
Nancy
Great picture
Great song
Great information
None of us are free until all of us are free
I think we are pretty much all in
Let me know also, I will do what I can 🙂
Hi Ronn, I got what you said but I believe what we are looking at here is more then taking ‘down’ DM or the church. I think truly understanding how it managed to preform this ‘trick’ is the key. ‘It’ meaning the religion it’s self.
I am finding it VERY interesting going thru my files of LRH favorites and seeing the lies here and there. I realized the other day that the best way to get out of the trap (the one I found myself in – others may be different) was for me to re-study and get smarter then the ‘trap maker’.
But yah – the big fuss in CW is sure interesting!
Cece
Thank you, palehorse. I have utmost respect for teachers.
Vinaire, It says ‘such as’. Trust me they are there – many many many.
Thought-stopping.
Meditation as you are thinking is ok 🙂
Cece
Good post Moonshot, and your view of this is very clear and correct. My exit from the church really accelerated starting in 2007 when I realized that every Scientology public I was involving myself with was ending up to be criminal in business in some way. Usually with lies and rip-offs. And I realized the common denominator was that these Scientology publics were all actively involved in the church. They were being led to be criminal on the subject of money and exchange and I realized the influence was the church. The higher on the Scn. grade chart these people were, the bigger and more flagrant the lies and rip-off. And I was a church member for 36 years so I could compare this to earlier times when church members were more honest.
So true Karen.
A student must be free to doubt, free to disagree, free to be critical, free to investigate.
I am with you 100%
Wonderful post Marty!
From the moment I first read your blog ~ this is what I figured you were up to.
Thanks for coming right out and saying that.
You have my full support also and I’m doing bits I can. I like the library idea above so I’m going to go to mine tomorrow.
Cece
That’s nice picture of you Marty. I’m sure Mosey will prevail in her legal affairs and I’m behind you and Mosey for what you do. I’ve read your blog from the beginning and your 3 books. As well as Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave. Frederick Douglas had quite an impact on me. Keep up the good work Marty.
Marty,
I loved your “clarification” and your purpose is beautiful! It gives hope to all of us out here that have empathy and deep concern for those in the trap. I continue to read your blog and fully track with your realizations and all that your are. You have helped so many, including me and I thank you.
Marty, you are a marvelously brave man in my eyes. And Mosey is the bravest of women!
As Dylan once sang, ‘The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast…..”
Let me know what I might do.
as Dylan sang, “The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast”.
Great post Marty.
I think your fight against slavery helped to make you as popular as you are.
I didn’t really understand your insisting on how Scientologists needed enemies. I do see some truth in it, but it came across a bit that having enemies was a bad thing. My feeling is that people such as dm are enemies to the free thinkers. I doesn’t mean that you have to be consumed by hatred toward that enemy, but enemy is what he is.
I think you are probably the number one person in the category of person who fights the enslaving of people via RCS.
For that you are a hero to many, including myself.
Moonshot: I have realized so much since joining this site. That was a great post about some Scn. based businesses. I had noticed bits and pieces of this from time to time but never really put it together like you did. Niche businesses, promises, busting you but to get stats up, etc.etc. Perhaps the truth rundown should be replaced with the Greed Rundown. Got some things I’d like to send you that I have sent to a few others. Drop me a note.
marknr@hushmail.com
Marty, in your book, you spoke of trying to free your brother from his personal hell. Then you joined the Sea Org to help free people from the reactive mind. While in, you worked feverishly to free LRH from legal restraints preventing him from returning to the Int Base.
Those things didn’t turn out as you’d hoped for at that time.
Now, you are continuing to work on freeing people. This time, you are being fabulously successfull. Keep up the good work. You’ve certainly made a huge impact on a lot of good people.
Hi Marty,
I have been critical of you recently for writings which invalidate the subject of scientology. The practice of the technical aspects of sci leads to spiritual enlightenment and what Ron describes as freedom (no longer trapped in a body). I know how free I felt from auditing in 1060/61. I was myself again after years of depression and insomnia which had crippled my personality (I was raised by a suppressive family menber leading to major restimulation) so I at least had experience release if not clear. So when you use the word scientology to criticise Miscavage and his crew it comes accross to me as a direct invalidation of the enormously important work that Ron put in to make this world a better place. I’m asking you to somehow differentiate between scientology the subject and scientology inc when you criticise the church. Surely you as an auditor must realise that Ron developed the technique (art ?) of auditing and what to audit when nobody else had a clue beyond medicine and crude mental practices which included shock treatment. Even today the sciences cannot admit to humans being beings, to them we are brains that somehow direct the body by itself and have made no advancements beyond drugs and some cognitive treatment which is basically used as evaluation. Are you not able to give some credit where credit is due and acknowledge Ron’s accomplishments? it would be a frightening thing if auditing tech and training was lost to the world. Or didn’t you make any gains in your auditing sessions? indeed did you never receive good auditing (and enough of it) whilst you were in the church? Never the less I’m still on your side and hoping that your efforts will indeed free scientologists from Miscaviges brand of scienyology.
Sterling Management? AIS Insurance? Two more examples?
As you say there have been and are many “Scientology Companies” with this business model: Lie, cheat, steal, and then hide behind the skirts of their “church”. By making large contributions with part of the money they scam off of other less connected Scientologists, they buy protection from “ethics” officers and chaplains actions. And the “good Scientologists” will not sue them in a court of law or bring them before government authorities for fear of being declared.
That’s a big job Marty,
I am with you.
It’s big because it goes way past just Scientologists.
Gutting common sense is actively practiced.
See: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/24672.htl.
Greta
Marty I appreciate this post very much.
I have not hidden the fact that I feel that it is very important to emphasize the good things that the Tech of Scientology can do, has done and does do to enhance people’s lives. Nor that I feel that it is even more important to do this when pointing up out-points in the subject, because from my experience the beneficial aspects of the subject far outweigh the destructive aspects especially when practiced by humane, caring, intelligent practitioners. Even so, I do recognize that many people do not share the same experience that I have had with the subject.
So, I think that we differ on this particular point of emphasis.
That said, I have also seen Tech and policies used to enslave people mentally and spiritually and I agree that it is LONG past time to abolish this from the face of the Earth. I have noticed from day one that you have been DOING this and I have been behind you from day one on this purpose as a reader and poster on your blog and in other ways. This post was very informative to me because I did not know before that you had been active in working for civil rights, in general. I am not and have not been a “big shot” mover and shaker, nor am I a “hero” but I am “humbly proud” to know that I marched with MLK many years ago before it became the ” ‘hip’ thing to do” among college students, back when when one was isolated and often in physical danger when doing so.
I have done what I could to fight against slavery and slavers of all stripes. Africans were overtly captured by force, put on ships in chains and transported to do the bidding of Europeans in the Americas. What Mi$cavige has done is more “subtle”. It has not been done overtly. It has been a covert betrayal but the result has still been slavery.
So, I want you to know that I am totally with you in exposing and eradicating this new slavery being spewed “from the tortured mind of David Miscavige and relayed to the world by Scientology Inc”.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks. Have you read my books?
There seem to be a religious bias against meditation among Christians and Scientologists..
.
“All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!
-L Ron Hubbard, affirmations
“when practiced by humane, caring, intelligent practitioners.”
Based on his actions this disqualifies L Ron Hubbard
Shizophrenic people see enemies everywhere
That would be L Ron Hubbard
Not this Pope
+1. You can’t free people by enslaving their minds.
Hello Al B.: There is a particular well known Scnst. who sells books on TV by the name of Kevin. He once spent some time in prison for credit card fraud. I would have thought that he would have learned a lesson and played straight with his customers. No. There are entire web sites dedicated to informing the public of his less than honorable practices concerning refunds and increased charges that the customer is not informed of. You would think that since he is such a public figure, he would want to put forth a shiny public image at the least. The last thing I would want to appear as would be a COMMON crook. Where is his enforced amends project?
His book on nutrition is well written, informative and would stand on its own, although it would not bring in millions.
Mark
Cat Daddy: Thank you so much for posting that link to the David Mayo videos. I found him to be warm, full of ARC, and quite brilliant while filled with common sense. His seminar on auditing was a thing of beauty. I can see why he was the first to get the boot in preparation for the DM takeover. His ouster was a tragedy for the church. His talk on integrity and the church was perfect. I wonder what he is up to.
Mark
Marty Rathbun: What is your take on David Mayo and do you know what he is up to lately?
Moonshot, thank you so much for shining a light on this dank and infested corner of the Scientology world. I have never understood the rank out ethics and blatant disregard for fair exchange in Scn-owned businesses. The only way I have been able to explain it is they have to run their company like a fiefdom in order to feed the ever hungry wolves at the door (the “church”). Prices, the IAS and a never-ending demand for donations for Ideal Orgs and “grassroots campaigns” (existing only as photo ops) seem to have driven people to outright criminality. It is utterly incredible, and watching alleged OTs commit these crimes without any apparent qualms but a big sense of entitlement has for me has been one of the greatest sources of cognitive dissonance of all.
Let’s not forget Chinese school.
Don’t worry.. that problem is not exclusive to America. Germany has neo-nazis as well. Alas, stupidity never dies out 🙂
Vinaire, I think that Christians were not taught, trained or exposed to the value of meditation which so many of their own Saints practiced. I think the forms and ceremonies of the Christians take precedence over the focus on that inner life. Their loss. Of course there are exceptions. And the more one seeks an inner life in Christianity, the more one would naturally see how prayer blends right into meditation. Also if one were to study the life of their saints one would run into meditation techniques. If there is religious bias from some Christians, its based on their not being indoctrinated into meditation as a method with value, but rather having their focus directed to faith. Personally, I think chanting has little value. And the eastern schools pretty much focus on the “self” and that may explain why so much of their society’s population suffer. Why should a Christian nun, Mother Theresa, have to go to Calcutta to service the poor and sick. Why can’t India take care of its own. Is there a fatal flaw in the Hindu and Buddhist teachings which contribute to this lack of caring? As far as scientologists go, I think most would consider doing “TR’s” a form of meditation and have never heard, felt , observed or experienced any bias towards meditation from that quarter.
Jefferson Hawkins was featured today in Tony Ortega’s Blog on the subject of O/w’s, confession, etc. Well worth reading, especially if you were ever involved with Institutional Scientology. His narrative has some therapeutic value, in my opinion.
And WISE is a tool used to keep it all together and protect the income sources.
Dassie, I believe you do psychology a disservice by claiming they “had no clue”. Actually, if you look at the cases psychiatry used such severe methods on, you will likely find Scientology in actual practice has no clue what to do with such people, either. They are labled PTS Type 3, and a communication embargo is not a helpful handling, having instead disastrous effects. You ask Marty to give credit where it is due, and I believe he has done that abundantly (read Scientology Reformation, for example, or Memoirs). I think what you really mean is to make the auditing tech an untouchable sacred cow, and we know where that has lead to. I’m afraid making something sacrosanct, and making it not OK to freely discuss all possible aspects, will simply lead to new tyranny. Over and over again, no matter how saintly the person at the helm might be. They would be steering a slave galley, nonetheless.
If we just address slavery I think we will miss the mark. Slavery is the adjective that is floating on the surface and the surface it floats upon is experience. No one actually lives in slavery, poverty, affluence, fear, happiness, freedom, etc., they live in experience. The adjectives used inform us of how the experience is being interpreted in perception. If we want to change the experience so that it can be described by a more appealing adjective then we have to explore the origin of the experience.
What precedes experience? Choice always precedes experience. But why do we make the choices we make? Why would anyone choose to have a slave experience when they could just as easily choose to have a freedom experience? The choices we make are determined by the belief systems we hold whether they be conscious or unconscious. So if we want to change the experience we have to change the belief system. Experience is the reflection of one’s belief systems.
Once upon a time I adopted the SC belief system and for thirty plus years I lived an SC experience. But, there came a time when I gradually began to adjust my SC belief system and as I did so my experience reflected the adjustments. Eventually, I took the SC belief system off the table at which point I ceased having an SC experience.
Speaking of a slave experience…the most prevalent slave experience that I’m aware of is the experience of bodies. The core belief system behind the body experience is quite the slave master. This belief system, of course, has myriad subsets of which a primary one is the belief in more and less. A belief that paves the way for judgment.
The choices we make, nano second to nano second continually reinforce this incredibly efficacious slave master (belief system) of which the bulk resides in unconsciousness. In having a body experience one is kept so distracted that it is enormously difficult to explore the belief system behind the experience. But, if a person can manage to explore and adjust this belief system, their experience across the board will reflect whatever adjustment that was made.
If what I’m saying here doesn’t make any sense to you, just take a moment to examine your own experience. Perhaps you can look at how you have modified or eliminated your own belief systems (consideration systems, postulate systems) since you were an active and devoted member in the CoS and how your experience has reflected your belief system adjustments, eradications or the adoption of new belief systems Experience is empirical.
And Karen, at the same time we protest mind numbing isms, paths, treachers etc, itvis important to see the good in the good paths.
That is not as easy as rejecting enslaving paths if that is all we have experienced.
Not being familiar with other techniques and proceedures, especially after being brainwashed for decades that all of them are traps, it is easy to misundertand and condenm that which is good.
That is my suggestion to you Karen. Said in all good intention.
A new and very broad area of discussion. I would like to hear more from You and others.
Yes Vinaire, but not the mystics. The Trappist monks of the Catholic order study eastern practices.
But yes, Scientologists have been taught that any practice except Ron’s is bad.
Scientologists have been indoctrinated into looking down on other practices. They have been taught to be arrogant elitists when it comes to other paths.
Only ways are evil. They discount humanity. The create super egos, fear in their victims
Padre Pio, Thomas Merton and similar quality of Catholics, the mystics, are at the top of the spiritual food chain as far as being ecumenical.
There has never been a shortage of evil in this (or other) world/s. Handle one and a thousand others take his place. They always find a way to alter, circumvent or escape rules, laws and policies designed to limit the influence of destructive individuals. The only way to handle this scourge long term is to salvage individuals, one at a time.
I have located one additional major source of harmful intentions. There are more to be uncovered. We have more work to do.
THE DESIRE AND EFFORT TO CONTROL OTHERS IS THE GREATEST OF EVILS, SURPASSING THE LOVE OF MONEY.
It has an exact source. The intention to control others , as a PRIMARY PURPOSE, has a particular cause that can be discovered for an individual.
MarkNR@hushmail.com
Drop me a line.
The last line gave me goose bumps
http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/13/the-saga-of-david-mayo-scientologys-banished-tech-wizard/
Note: This does not disqualify in any fact intulectual achievenent. Alan Walter calls it Dichotomy.
Let me assist and slaughter the other sacred holey cow in the process.
Jesse Prince . . .
I’m glad you brought up this subject of how the crimminality and destructive behavior escalated to what it is today in Scientology. I will start by saying I am not an L Ron Hubbard hater. I am also not an L Ron Hubbard adorer either. I just want to bring up personal knowledge that I have concerning Miss Cabbag’s odd behavior of abusing staff. The behavior of attacking staff DID NOT start with Miss Cabbage or Marty R or anyone else. Here is how it started from my eye wittness account. The year was 1982. The majority of International management (Exec Strata and CMO INT) had been removed from post. Out of that group of people there were two of them that really irritated L Ron personally. The two people I am refering to here is John [Aczel] and David Mayo. For those who were around in 1983, there was RTC Conditions Order #1, a Com Ev on about 12-18 people. The exact number that comes to mind was about 18, but on this I could be mistaken but it was an unsual amount of people on the bill of particulars. I was either a member or secretary of that comm ev that went on for months. During this time RTC as well as ASI and CMOI would send up weekly reports to L Ron on the state of affairs with Int Mgmt ..etc. A report was sent to him each week concerning the comm ev and L Ron would often order this or that investigation of the people being comm ev’d. John [Aczel] was the Exec Strata person over Div 6 activities and L Ron pretty much hated John and I understand hate is a strong word but so were the circumstances. To make a long story short, I read an advice from L Ron to Miss Cabbage ordering him to spit in John’s face and tell him that was from L. Ron. Miss Cabbage complyed with his order and reported the result. I saw the advice that came back to the compliance report of spitting in John’s face and L Ron was very pleased to here the news and escalated the situation by suggesting someone should slap the hell out of John [Aczel]. Sure enough, as John was held by others, John was beaten by Miss Cabbage. Similar degrading actions were taken with David Mayo and this soon spread to others deemed to be SP’s. Prior to this it was unheard of at least by me for any staff member to attack another staff member. In fact it was a serious ethics offence to attack a fellow staff member. I knew Miss Cabbage before he was asked by L Ron to attack staff. He NEVER put a hand on any staff member period and I knew him for years prior to his orders to attack staff members. His wife Shelly would also encourage other executives to abuse staff in this manner and if they didn’t they were accused of having their finger falter on the trigger of a gun. In other words, pull the trigger. God only knows what the hell she was talking about but there you have it. It is so important to have the truth known so that people are not confused.
Alsoo don’t fool yourself Mark, It was on orders of L Ron Hubbard self David Mayo had to go: see post below with a “knowledge report”of Jesse Prince
Actually, a local Catholic church near me offers the Christian form of meditation known as contemplation. I have considered going there, but am not really willing to enter another group and do not wish to put on an act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemplation#Contemplation_and_meditation
Welcome back bro
Thanks. I have a Mark IV.
Newer models still have the same basic insides.
When Teril Park left after we spent time together in Amsterdam and he slept over at my place in Groningen he drove to belgium place of Westvleteren to pick up some cases of Trapist beer/Ale
http://www.sintsixtus.be/eng/home.htm
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?20704-My-Weekend-with-Terril-Park-AnonKat&p=495268&highlight=terril+park+amsterdam#post495268
http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters/
http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/31/honesty-in-scientology-jefferson-hawkins-helps-us-with-another-ethical-quandary/#more-11322
I thought we were commenting on meditation.
Cat: Very informative link.
Mark
Karen you were orderd to do the running programm like David Mayo ?
Yes, Contemplation would be the same thing as meditation if the 12 aspects of mindfulness are practices:
1. Observe without expecting anything, or attempting to get an answer.
2. Observe things as they really are, not as they seem to be.
3. If something is missing do not imagine something else in its place.
4. If something does not make sense then do not explain it away.
5. Use physical senses as well as mental sense to observe.
6. Let the mind un-stack itself.
7. Experience fully what is there.
8. Do not suppress anything.
9. Associate data freely.
10. Do not get hung up on name and form.
11. Contemplate thoughtfully.
12. Let it all be effortless.
The De-Evolution Of A Devoted Scientologist
“This is a follow-up to “My Buddy Alan, The Scientologist”. This follow up video presents Alan’s state of mind, then and now. I debated whether or not to air the newer footage, and eventually decided I probably should.
Alan and I are no longer friends. Towards the end of the summer in 2011, Alan had become increasingly suspicious, judgmental and physically violent. Our business deals began to sour as he also became increasingly secretive about money, bills and operating costs when it came to our gold mining and scrap iron ventures.
In a drunken rage, Alan spontaneously attacked me, throwing me to a concrete floor. I was in the hospital for four days with a skull fracture. A week later, he dismissed the whole situation as trivial and unceremoniously evicted me off the compound, stating “you irritate me”.
So much for fifteen years of friendship.
I don’t know where Alan is now, and I don’t care. The true nature of Scientology had finally manifested in Alan’s conduct: That all people are merely opportunities to be manipulated, then discarded or destroyed.
As per certain inquiries, it is true that Alan was not mentally stable BEFORE he joined the Co$. This video glaringly illustrates that “the tech”, which claims to address all human ailments, mental and physical, is an absolute failure and a lie. If anything, I’m of the opinion that “the tech” (which Alan has rigorously studied for more than 20 years) has made him worse. Not better.”
Thanks Aeolus — absolutely. Since it is now illegal (in most countries) to enslave people overtly, the evil-minded, sociopathic, or plain ill can still manage it via totalistic cults to enslave people psychologically.
Here’s a good summary from cultwatch.com on one of the control mechanisms of cults — information control:
“Those who control the information control the person. In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only information supplied by the cult is true. One cult labels any information against it as “persecution” or “spiritual pornography”, another cult calls it “apostate literature” and will expel you from the group if you are caught with it. Cults train their members to instantly destroy any critical information given to them, and to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true.”
Information control was part of American slavery, as you mention. Keeping Blacks illiterate also enabled suppression from empowerment to, for example, vote, enter contracts, and so on (e.g., voter literacy test laws).
Slaves still found creative and inspiring ways to share information though. For example, the spiritual “Wade in the Water” was reportedly sometimes used to signal a runaway slave to get in the water to evade trackers and bloodhounds. And the Underground Railroad (slave escape network of routes, supporters, hiding places, transportation, etc.) apparently had an extensive secret, symbolic language known just to participants.
I know the first time, when I was a teenager, that I really, really felt what American slavery and the slave trade must have been like from the “receiving end” I wept and felt anger and horror. In Scn terms, one could say that was when I “got” the “mass” of it and not just the “significance” (both terms have specialized Scn meanings in this context.
When Scientologists who are in someday get the “mass” of what has been done to them by enslaving them under the false promise of freedom, I suspect many of them will react in a similar way. I say that knowing from experience that it can years if not decades to extricate one’s sense of self from Scientology to achieve a fair sense of what was good and interesting and what was twisted and suppressive.
But … what is good and interesting cannot thrive in an overall suppressive system, no more than the “good” of cheap agricultural and other use of slave labor could ever, ever justify the suppressive matrix of slavery.
David Mayo is alive and well. And from what I gather doesn’t buy into the tech any longer. But keeps his privacy, which I respect.
I will never forget the day on course where I was asked to star rate a tech bulletin written by him. (I always looked forward to his bulletins which were better written than most and with more affinity.) But that day on course after star rating this tech bulletin, I had to then starrate “the story of a squirrell.” The slanderous piece written about him and inserted into all course packs.
Insanity.
…the slow one now
will later be fast
as the present now
will later be past
the order is rapidly fadin
and the first one now
will later be last
for the times they are a-changin
Sorry OSA, you have had plenty of time by now.
Thanks Marty for being my catalyst.
Marty, Did you ever imagine that so many folks who have never studied scientology would be interested in your blog? Not just media types and folks who are curious about the never ending cos drama factory, but truth seekers?
Mark,
David Mayo has been posting on ESMB for a few years now.
Althought Trudeau had contact with Scientology many years ago, I don’t think he is a “Scientologist” as far as being “in good standing’ or active in any way.
No. Sometimes he was, sometimes he wasn’t, migh tbe closer to the truth.
I worked in Psychiatry in th elate 1950s through tthe decade of th e1970s. Although psychaitrists were something of a mixed bag, they either “had no clue”, or had “other fish to fry”, such as protecting and expanding their financial monopoly over mental treatment. By th emid 1970s they were very much into prescribing “medications” for anyone who walked in the door, and little else. This was largely because insurance companies were cutting off payments for long-term psychological treatment, and psychiatry needed to “re-tool” with treatments that had a quickly visible effect. Medications alsoprovide psychiatrists with a built-in “residual income” because of the monitoring requirements.
Clinical psychologists are an entirely different story. But before Carl Rogers and the advent of “client -centered therapy”, which hardly existed in 1960, most pscychologists were very oriented towards “adjusting” patients to society, not helping them achieve their own goals. And Dassie is talling about her pre 1960 view of the field. I have little doubt she is honestly telling her view of it as it was back then.
My Super Seven needs a new clock. Any one know an Independent service person for meters?
excuse the interlocutory. I felt some balance was called for since you implied the christians were biased.
One of my all time favorite beers is a Trappist brew. It is called Konigs Hoven. I think that’s how it’s spelt.
There is a beer and sausage house downtown LA, German style beer hall with long tables. Mighty fun.
Faith and beer are not incompatible! This is a deep truth.
I am surprised. Seems like a perfect marriage.
Victoria
Glad to hear it. Did you notice my comment on the David Mayo videos that were posted by Cat D.? There is an air of calm competence and an ease about him.
Mark
Is there a Scientology explanation for this Phenomenon ?
Not really, he did it briefly
I agree mostly as it apllied to the ameerican situation
Well under the protesters are a bunch of people who I don’t want to see go of their meds. Like Angry Gay Pope.
Valkov
Sorry if I was in error about his current status. He promoted Dn and Scn in his books and I heard verbally from other Scnst that he was.
Mark
David Mayo – Sunday Talk on Disillusionment – scientology
1 of 4
Geupload op 29 jul 2010
Mayo was personal auditor by L Ron Hubbard near 1973-1980.
Download more audiotapes here
http://timecops.dhost.ru/david_mayo-a…
Free Zone Scientology
http://www.galac-patra.narod.ru
http://www.timecops.biz
http://www.0-48.ru
I am happy it helped you. Ausditing is a powerfull tool
McMaster stated in an interview: “I was so excited about the function of auditing ($cientology counseling) that I was willing to overlook Hubbard’s faults – . That was up to a point of course, the final point being my realization that his intentions were entirely self-serving. I saw that he was in it for the money and personal power, and his actual intentions were not as stated. The basic function of auditing is a wonderful thing, but Hubbard perverted it.”
Additives kill mindfulness.
Let me snoop on ESMB, maybe even make a post of it.
That is very interesting data on this contagion of aberration.
Vinaire ~
This is very good,. I like it and think it is “chicken soup for the soul.” There is a process in “Creation of Human Ability” called “Take 10 minutes of nothing”.
I have tried that, boy is it hard to do !
ESMB: David Holt passed away
“If you knew David Holt – he has passed away – see below. He was on New York Org staff, LA Org staff, and had a maintenance company here in LA. He was a sweet person – good people as we used to say. Good by David – I’ll miss you. Mimsey”
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33674-David-Holt-passed-away&p=869425#post869425
Hello Cat Daddy.
How funny that there are some things one does not forget.
I can’t recall a phone number I dial 24 hours ago, but I can recall the “Silent Night, Holy Night” rendition on the radio as someone burst into my CS office and told me I was SUMMONED to see the INT FINANCE ETHICS OFFICER ~~
Don Larson.
I had absolutely NOTHING to do with FINANCE, ZERO, ZILCH.
The summons was incomprehensible to me.
Why would a Finance guy summon a tech guy?
Larson had an intimidating reputation. He was a DM execution arm of thuggery, force and overwhelm. See this video clip link . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd8jaJDDaYc
Larson could make the rank and file Mission Holders, staff, Sea Org, shiver and shake.
I arrived at Larson’s office and was told by his administrative assistant to sit down and wait. In his arrogance had me wait outside his office for 2 hours.
When he finally had TIME to see me, he said to me I was being assigned to the RPF but would not be “IN ” the RPF, I would only be ”ON ” the RPF
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was illegal in those days to sentence someone to the RPF without a Committee of Evidence
So I would be ON the RPF pending Comm Ev. I would eat with them, sleep with them, work with them
but I was only ON and not IN
I demanded to know why the assignment.
The assignment was due to a trumped up TELEX which alleged that I was ‘FUNNELLING CLASS XIIS out of the FSO.”
FUNNELLING
I could not fathom what it meant ….was I building underground tunnels under the bowels of the Fort Harrison and helping Class XIIs escape ?
The accusation was as bogus as it could get. Absolute hogwash. I had within the last year CSed 2 Class XIIs who subsequently blew ~~
Bruce Glushakow and another, therefore I was “Funnelling Class XIIs” out of the FSO, for CSing I did one year previously !
But I paid dearly for it with 6 months of HELL.
In order to make my RPF assignment legal, Committee of Evidences had to occur.
The problem was the first 2 Committee of Evidences found me to be too “UPSTAT” for an RPF assignment and returned me to post.
Much to the fury of Jeanie Williamson, (who was calling the Comm Evs) the then CO CMO CW (now also a blown and declared SP)
Jeanie was a kind of blonde bombshell, hated by most, as she paraded around the Flag Land Base with messengers in white following her like a private entourage.
She was BEST FRIENDS with Jeff W Senior CS Flag.
Jeanie and Jeff had a good thing going. Rocket the stats of the Flag SERVICE ORG out the roof, so that they both looked GOOD. Look and examine the stats on their watch…climbing higher and higher every week !
They both looked like HEROES.
They both looked good.
They both had air cover with soaring stats to cover their sexual misconduct.
Jeff Walker was having sex with a public from Louisiana Sue ~~ who he married soon after became Sue Walker. (She recently died of cancer)
Jeanie Williamson was rolling in the hay with Wendell Reynolds who was married at the time to Ellen Reynolds…
Casual sexual intercourse is a HIGH CRIME in the SEA Org and you had BETTER have good STATS for air cover.
So how did Jeff Walker get IN CAHOOTS with Jeanie Williamson to cover up their “OUT 2ds”
??????????????????
I will explain fully how.
A diabolical plot was hatched.
ALL Flag Service Offices around the planet were asked to scoop up the NCGs. NCGs mean NO CASE GAINS.
Every Organization in the world has a percentage of pcs that do not voice any gain. These are known as “Resistive cases”.
So the plot was to round up all the NO CASE GAINS of the planet and dump them into the Class XII HGC for $1000 an hour to “crack” their cases.
The Gross Income soared.
The Class XII HGC that I was responsible for, was a madhouse of arrivals who were currently on drugs, currently suicidal, currently threatening to throw themselves off the 10th floor balcony of the Fort Harrison if the next session didn’t handle their suicidal urge….
and thus started my 2 years of sleepless nights, my runs to Clearwater Beach after hours to “clear my head” and my compulsion
to drink 2 glasses of cal mag so I could sleep.
Although no pc died on my watch, the FSO had all the ear marks of a Lisa Mcpherson death waiting to happen.
There was no Ethics officer that would forbid the NCGs from entering the Class XII HGC.
As long as the “Church” could rake in the $$$$$$$, (it was always all about the REVENUE ~~ who cared if they took some recently-off-heroin addict ?) Cash is CASH and Williamson and Walker cared ONLY about rising revenues and nothing else.
I fought Jeff Walker tooth and nail about taking exorbitant sums of money from public we could not help.
Jeff dominated the system and we collided in firefights 24/7. Jeff got fed-up with my opposition and got Jeanie Williamson and SO Pgms Chief to remove me which is what the bogus RPF assignment was about.
My life was black and dark. My signature on a folder could be death warrant. Marty describes these black periods so eloquently. “The valley of the Shadow of Death.”
I knew all too well the consequences of a public I was supervising, dying while I CSed the folder.
Back to Don Larson.
This was the one and only time I ever met the man.
He sentenced me to the RPF and had the RPF in charge come on over and walk me to the Gulag.
The RPF was an insane Asylum, literally bedlum at the time. Hysterical musters of screaming threats, threats of instant declare, ABUSE gone mad. Probably an earlier version of the SP Hole which currently exists at INT Base.
Insane rantings 1 hour at a time for no particular reason.
I was assigned to be a GUINEA PIG on the 12 hour a day running program. In Clearwater sun in Florida, we ran around a pole as punishment.
It was enforced. It was brutal.
It was spiritually painful.
12 hours a day is a long time.
I don’t know how I made it through.
I had experienced the darker punitive side of Scientology which has NO MERCY.
There is no LOVE in this “Religion”. No benevelonce. No caring for the individual.
It is absolutely the dichotomy of everything a RELIGION should be.
It is a sadistic, malicious and vindictive CULT as witnessed by report after report after report of the draconian punishments doled out as a way of life.
It is also a “RELIGION” that operates purely as a business.
RELIGION AND BUSINESS AND STATS AND PENALTIES FOR LOWERED BUSINESS REVENUES ARE OBSERVED BY ONE AND ALL.
As time marched on the RPF got worse and worse, and in-mates could not graduate for YEARS working on reduced sleep for slave labor, cut off from the outside world, disconnected from their spouses and this assignment could occur
by the whimsical order of Miscagive with no Justice procedures .
One glorious afternoon, I was plucked out of the RPF and not allowed to graduate.
WHY ?
Too valuable. I was ordered out by CMO PAC ~~ The RPF assigment was “cancelled”. BOGUS all along.
Did anyone apologize for the brutality ?
Did anyone care to patch me up for running 12 hours a day around a pole ?
Did anyone think that when ABUSE is rampant on a willing staff member, the willingness will eventually erode ?
OF COURSE NOT.
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$ AND THIS WEEK’S REVENUE.”
Thank you Cat Daddy. Thank you for stepping up and telling the hard truth. The truth that has been brick wall denied. I wish more that saw and knew this had the balls to come forward.
David Miscavige was trained and encouraged by Ron to beat people. Ron, Davids adult mentor and world savior gave Miscavige “divine permission” to harm people.
L.Ron’s legacy continues today. The truth will set you free!
I found my X wife, Likki McKechnie Lambert, singer for the Incredible Stringband, in a fetal position, under our bathroom sink.
She had been auditing OT3x for years and years, daily. She got highest stats for solo auditing at Saint Hill. It was 40 or 60 hrs.
When we met in the states and married she would still solo audit. After coming back one day from AO for a review I found her under the bathroom sink with eyes bloodshot from hrs of crying. She was insane.
This is what she said to me when I found her, ” I cause OT 3 to happen, I am evil “!!!
Red tagged!!!!!!!! You bet she was. But I would say this is not uncommon. How many OTs died of cancer??
This shit has got to be brought down. This manipulating evil must be sent back to hell where it belongs.
The distortion of human dignity, human spirituality and decency is the legacy of L. Ron. Hubbard. Flat out straight up truth!
The OT levels that deal with implants and bts are all a lie. A lie you pay for. A lie that corrupts your normal view of the world and the people in it.
Marty,
I’ll have to paraphrase a quote that I ran across the other day that seems to fit in with this meme:
“Our scars show where we’ve been.
They don’t dictate where we’re going.”
That said, all the best to you, yours and anyone else in the camp.
Many people want to know what happened to her.
She became a street person. She lived on the streets. Then she disappeared.
I attribute years and years and years of OT3x as one of the causes. A big cause. She became extremely delusional. You have no idea of the pain I felt. And the pain I felt for her, not being able to help.
We believed in Ron.
There are websites dedicated to Likki. Fans that wanted to know where she is and what happened to her. I have never spoken up as I wanted Scientology out of my life.
But I see it is still in me.
I think I have some feeling to do. Feelings buried.
Thank you, Karen. Here are the details on these 12 steps.
.
Hi again Brian
I have met a couple of so called OT3s who were total nut cases. wouldn’t give you a nickel for them. One of them said that “He had done OT3, had done the purif, and if there was an apocalypse, he didn’t care, he’d be fine”
I’ve met a hundred or more OTs who were the finest people you could ever meet. Caring, generous and warm. Could put out effort easily and were unusually bright and sensible.
It has been my observation that the OT procedures have not been perfected for all individuals or some C/Ss are just incompetent. My take on it is that it shouldn’t be done until one is READY FOR IT and NEEDS IT. A few people may not have even been there at the time.
It appears that a few OT repair auditors in the Ind. field handle those that have severe problems on the pre OT levels easily. It was a very overwhelming event especially when combined with all the earlier similars. Freedom from overwhelm is a GREAT relief and produces a calm confidence that I have seen in few others. I’m probably one of the lucky ones. I was there, but have not been especially bothered by BTs. I have an affinity for life and am beginning to realize my connection with Theta.
Just my observations. Yours may be different.
Mark
Tom
“Our scars show where we’ve been.
They don’t dictate where we’re going.”
Perhaps the entire basis of negative gain auditing.
CD, the explanation is either unhandled case or out-ethics – and out-ethics itself is ultimately unhandled case. Nevertheless, the being does make choices in present time and thus can’t be fully excused from responsibility for his/her actions. But the basic intent will surface sooner or later, and actions will evolve in that direction. That’s my understanding.
Brian
A tragedy that should have never been allowed to happen. Just one truly caring person who was not afraid of their ‘Senior’ could have prevented it
And there’s the rub. Toughness and loving ARC must go hand in hand.
Mark.
Prison? Torture Chamber of Belief is more like it.
You can get small travel clocks or plate sized wall clocks really
cheap that will do the job fine.
Yes I agree Mark, I have known many OTs myself. Many caring nice folks. But the danger in the OT materials is that those people who have a tendency towards mystical delusions, will find a wide array of characters to fill the stage of make believe.
It is a dangerous lie implanted into naive trusting people. The OT levels are part of the hypnotic trance input into the receptive minds of people.
Yes, there are wins to be had. But there are wins to be had going through a bad relationship with the right attitude. And when those OT 3 wins are associated with the story of OT 3, you have a human being who does not have a grasp on what is real. The associations, while being a group participatory zombie, are cemented is association.
OT 3 is a lie. Realizations of the soul are not.
Dream therapy allows the patient to use metaphors to cognize seed thoughts that hold realities in place. But the dream therapist and the patient know they are dreams, abstractions.
In Scientology, delusions are sold as truth. And then you are punished for seeking to confront delusions.
Road to truth? Hardly
She had many CSes. Many over many years. In England and America. But in America, when she was having a real hard time of things, the ethics officer at AO had me give Likki something to sign before they audited her. It was a,” if you kill yourself the church of Scientology is not responsible.”
Here she is, going nuts on OT 3 and they have her sign a waiver before she got a review.
This was around 1979. The seeds of my discontent were sowed then and there. The promises of Ron were a lie. They could not help my wife. But they took her money.
Good idea Aurora
+1
I think the CoS, (read “DM”), was intersted in Trudeau simply because he apparently knew how to rake in th ebucks via TV “Infomercials”. Millions of dollars worth. That was what theywere interested in – turning him into one of their “whales”. However, he wanted the money for himself. So they may have beensomewhat alike in their focus on getting money, each was out for himself and he was not interested in being plucked of his wealth. He was a plucker himself, not a pluckee. Given his beingness, I imagine he sensed pretty quickly what they really wanted of him – his money, for a billion years. Like Tom Cruise.
I believe he visited Flag backin th e1990s. That was th elast I heard of him. And you know how “scientologists” exagerrate! As in “We are expanding like crazy! Straight up and vertical!” 🙂
Some kind of PTSness could be an explanation.
“Beer is the proof God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin (if I remember correctly)
Absolutely “Betrayal after trust”. And that beat just goes on, and on, and on…..
OMG Karen!
I knew you had no warm and fuzzy memories of the Running program but I didn’t know the framing incidents that led you to having to do it.
I was supervising the pilot of the running program in the Sr C/S Int office and did the program myself, 5 hours a day. Kinda liked it with being outside, watching the gophers poke their heads up on the track. I think I was assigned to this program after throwing the cans at Heidi Staehli in session after some out-tech occurred.
After going through the worksheets of the gang bang sec checking by the finance police (Wendell Reynolds & Co.) of my friends in Germany,
I HAD to open my big mouth about the horrendous out-Tech in these ‘sec checks’ and immediately landed on the decks at Int/Gold with a Comm Ev for good measure to top it off and then it was 12 hours a day as well on the running pgm. After a while they increased it to 13 hours a day. After all, that was INT with the highest and toughest standards!!!
.
There was out-Tech like running in boots in the rain which killed my hip ligaments. Instead of being allowed to heal this fresh injury I WALKED in pain for 6 weeks. Otherwise had some fabulous wins on it and kept running in this fashion for a few years because it was so exhilarating.
David Mayo and Julie Gillespie were kept separate from us. They ran around a tree in a much too narrow diameter.
Greta
For a while I “studied” with a Chinese Master who taught the Tao. Well, he claimed to teach the Tao, however it seems now that he clearly taught his own interpretation of the Tao. After about 4 years I began to have serious doubts about his teachings. One thing in particular he used to proclaim was, “the more books that you read, the stupider you become.”
Even this phrase was not the worst. The worst and the last straw for me was when I heard him proclaim loudly at an Event, “You people do not know what true freedom is. You Americans think that freedom means doing whatever you want. You are wrong! True freedom lies in obedience to your Master!”
After digesting that indigestible statement I just walked away in disbelief.
And never went back. It was at that point that I saw some serious parallels between what this Master was teaching and some of the things that LRH had said. The “funny” thing is, I felt worse about being betrayed by this “master” than I did about being sucked into Scientology.
Mostly because I never gave a single dime to the IAS (I saw that as a scam right off) but I had stupidly contributed $$ to this “master’s” teachings. I still can’t say his name because I am still so angry.
Betrayed. He writes a lot of books. If you see a lot of books written by a “Chinese Taoist Master/Healer” just walk away quick! His goal is not for your personal freedom.
I add my thanks to Marty for his research and courage. Right after the last time Marty mentioned Frederick Douglass I went onto Amazon and bought the biography Narrative that he had mentioned. It is quite eye opening. One can learn a lot from Frederick Douglass and his life.
I have concluded that anyone who is trying to suppress books or the reading of books just does not have your best interest at heart.
Examples are too numerous to mention.
Contrast that to a guy who is recommending a variety of authors, philosophers, humanitarians, and great thinkers…
Well, as I did learn some useful “tech” from LRH. yes I also learned some useful “tech” from the Chinese master. However, I realize at this point that neither had my best interests or my personal freedom at heart.
Best to follow no one. Keep your eyes open and learn from everything
but be careful how far down any one path you decide to go.
.
Thanks CD. I would point out there are contrary accounts on ESMB, about MIscavige’s behavior before 1982.
it is apparently true, however, as verified in Marty’s “Memoirs of a Scientology Warriot” book, that LRH was very pleased by Miscavige’s execution (pun intended) of the “Mission holder massacre” in 1982.
Terril
That was just a little too simple and obvious for me to think of myself.
Thanks, Mark
TYPO ALERT: I worked in psychiatric settings for about 13-14 years, from the late 1960s, (NOT 1950s) from about 1967 through part of 1980.
Sorry i was typing too fast when I posted the original!
Kevin Trudeau was not a Scientologist – they would not let him in. Think about it – he wrote books entitled “What THEY don’t want you to know”…he would eventually find out the whole thing is a con and a scam and he would not keep quiet about that! I don’t hear much about him anymore. His books were good and I admire his marketing skills and how he got himself out there. He did it WITHOUT the TECH! Fancy that…
and MUSTERS!! Everything Karen listed are atributes of mind controlling cults! Thank you Karen!!
Karen ~ I sure hope you right a book soon! You have so much information that you lived through that could help so many people get out or never go in!! Thank you for sharing this story – I had never heard this before! FUCK Scientology for doing what they did to you and your family and everyone else this evil cult hurt! Your unwillingness to hurt people is a thread that runs in your DNA and they could not audit it out of you! You are a kind, caring and compassionate human being! I am so glad to have you out here on our side!! WRITE A BOOK!!
Go to E-Bay. You can buy a brand new one real cheap! I threw everything in the dump or I would have given you mine. If you post an ad on Craigslist in LA, NY or another big City – you can probably pick up a new one for a buck! No kidding. I could not sell mine for anything. I had it on E-Bay for 2 years and did not get one bid so I smashed it and dumped it!
I have used your video to get people out and keep them from going in! Wow – Cat Daddy – that was you that posted this video of Allen. I love your voice! You should be a announcer for radio or TV! I believe Scientology is “Russian Roulette” for the Mind. You don’t know when the bullet is or when…but it is there and it is going to get you sooner or later. Some are tough to take it – some will be ruined. I was not ruined but I felt that if I stayed any longer – they would destroy me. I was not a good clam. I did not obey and told them the truth. No – I won’t join staff or Sea Org cuz it looks like SLAVE LABOR to me! I was so RIGHT!! No – I won’t give you any more money because this Organization is so out of exchange it is criminal! I was RIGHT!! I love being RIGHT. Anyway – thanks for posting the video about Allen – it has gone viral and I helped! It is one piece of promo that will keep the public out in droves!
What’s his handle? David Mayo?
Marty – thank you for your persistence to abolish slavery in Scientology!! You have my full support and please let me know if there is anything we can do to help. What about a peaceful protest at Org’s world wide. No masks – just carry signs that state: “Free the Slaves in Scientology” “Scientology $ells Spiritual Freedom and does not deliver! The “clear Cog” is on the internet for FREE! etc..
I don’t deserve thanks. When all is said and done I would like to see Auditing have a chanche to prove itself in the real world stripped of all the ad ons. From Freud to L Ron Hubbard to Meta Psychology
2 of 6
L Ron Hubbard will be remembered. It may sound strange but more people know he existed after Anonymous was done. I have a dark side too
Funny how that works
Koninghoeve, I have been there lot’s of times , It’s near where my parents live 😉
Thank you for your response Karen
CD
I like to leave you in peace on a positive note
If I was mild I would say that that was alsoo the reason why Hubbard “self medicated”,With Alcohol and pills. It is not strange to beings to seek an escape.
I have experienced more OT phenomena in meditation than I have in auditing sessions. One of the reasons that folks give for staying in Scientology for so long is that they enjoy going exterior (with perceptions) and wonderful cognitions that can occur in processing, etc. When I left the CoS I thought perhaps my days of spontaneous exteriorization were about over. But then I walked into a Barnes & Nobles bookstore, and lo and behold there was a book on mindfulness (Mindfulness? Huh; in Scientology we are getting rid of our{reactive} minds!) by Jon Kabat-Zinn, PHD. So I picked it up just to see how crazy it was…It wasn’t.
That begun a continuing year- after- year journey into meditation. Eventually I got to the point of experiencing unexplainable phenomena much more easily in meditation than I had with an auditor in any session.
Meditation is FREE. No one will reg you for it. Any one can do it for themselves if they have a little self-discipline and can put in some consistent time in the beginning. I was out of the Church, but I still had money because I did not give it all to the IAS and had nothing but time on my hands. I would spend anywhere from 2 hours in the beginning, to over 12 hours a day in meditation. The phenomena blew away anything I had experienced in decades. I say in decades, because at the age of 12 I went exterior spontaneously with “full” ( how can we say full, not knowing the completeness possible?) perceptions. It happened the moment my 6th grade social studies teacher looked at me sternly and said. “Who are you?” I spent a whole lifetime looking to regain that experience, which cannot be explained in words.
Most people who knock meditation, and yoga for that matter, misunderstand these practices. It is very difficult to use any kind of mind control on somebody who meditates as a daily practice. Meditation brings you minimally into the present moment and more aware…
It is only if one has let their meditation practice lapse or fall by the wayside that one can become ensnared in any kind of mind control by a person or group.
Meditation- highly recommended for whatever ails you. You cannot be ensnared in this kind of practice. You will be more you.
Karen, have you written a book yet?
Because if you haven’t, I’ll bet we would all love to read your memoirs!
I have to thank you on behalf of your pcs,
Vinaire, perhaps, but that seems awfully dry. Additives also allow expression and expansion. And caring. Here are 3 words for you that I am mindful of; selfishness kills compassion. The law of karma and scientology’s version of it, the overt motivator sequence and the oft used phrase “he/she pulled it in”, can be an invitation or excuse to be selfish. I have no experience in an eastern culture, but in scientology culture the detachment from anothers plight was prevalent. Karma was more than a tool for understanding, it became a shield from involvement. Ones time or resources need not be expended. It ran counter to christian values on dealing with ones fellow human beings. Perhaps there are similar eastern values. Because the belief that a person is responsible for their own condition does not excuse one from action.
Loki, Mindfulness is full of compassion. Look at the life of Buddha. That is my inspiration and not Hubbard’s ideas.
My comment referred to you reacting to what I said. You didn’t want hear criticism of Christianity. So you went on a tit for tat bringing in criticism of India. That is very much like the reaction of a Scientologist.
India is a separate subject. I wouldn’t mind discussing it on another thread. I am very critical of current conditions in India. But here we are talking about meditation, especially the comment, which Karen made initially. So, let’s stick to that.
If you think Christianity whole-heartedly endorses practices like meditation, then let’s hear about that.
.
This in response to the post from Mary Rathernotsay:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/abolition-of-scientology-slavery/#comment-281705
It is good not to have a black and white attitude towards Scientology. I always acknowledge what is good in Scientology, while also acknowledging the curves thrown in that subject. Mindfulness requires that you see things as they are.
Here is my summary assessment of Scientology.
1. Scientology consists of much ground breaking work by Hubbard.
2. Scientology introduces a whole new plateau to addressing the problems of the mind.
3. The work on this breakthrough is, however, far from complete.
4. The success from the application of Scientology is far from consistent.
5. Any lack of success gets blamed on the practitioner of Scientology.
6. Unmanageable difficulties seem to exist in the application of Scientology.
7. Correction lists have become a part of “Standard Scientology.”
8. A closer look at Scientology shows a lack of application of the principle of poka-yoke.
9. ‘Looking’ is the key to successes in Scientology auditing.
10. Scientology does not seem to put emphasis on ‘Looking’.
11. Scientology takes up ‘Looking’ on TR0 exercises and Obnosis, but it fails to treat ‘Looking’ systematically, and fails to highlight its importance in auditing.
12. The principles of Looking were first elucidated by Buddha 2600 years ago.
13. ‘Looking’ when applied as mindfulness, seems to provide poka-yoke to Scientology processes.
I believe that whenever any success comes from Scientology auditing it has the elements of mindful meditation in it. The current research into mindfulness is being documented as KHTK (Knowing How to Know) on my blog.
.
Mindfulness expert Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn discusses Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction.
.
more like Sam Adams. Lol
Brian:
Words have not been invented to describe what has happened to you and yours. “Thank you for telling me that”, or “I understand” would be just insults.
If that had happened to my wife or daughter I would be typing from the prison library right now. My conversations with you will be different.
My disagreements with your opinion have turned to admiration for your resolve.
Mark
IDLE
I liked Kevin’s books on diet. Very sensible. I admire his energy and drive. I do not admire his marketing skills. Tease with a small product, then take and take and take.
One indirect lesson I have learned from eastern thinking is to recognize the good qualities in bad people and the bad in the good. The finest people in history had their vices and visa versa. It is possible to look straight at each piece of a person, self included.
Mark
I know that it was “an american horror story, cutting in peoples brains is a result of “materialistic”psychiatry driven by german/french ideas that humans are “fixable” like machines. That’s why in the “Psychiatry an Industry of death exhibit”certain german psychiatrists are made showcase. Never this kind:
Just feel solace in that more people contributed to the subject of Scientology and the tech . EVEN MISSIONHOLDERS.
You will have a richer subject if you acknowlegde each of them and research how thay made their contributions.
“A river has many sources”
Cat Daddy
I am sorry to dissapoint you, I posted the description that came along with the video. I did use quotations. What I do is dessiminate, It could be I posted it as AnonKat or under another internet nick.
But thank you for flowing Theta my way 😉
http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_jmayo1.htm
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 00:39:07 +0200
From: mayo@lightlink.com (Julie Mayo)
Subject: Letter to D. Miscavige
Letter to D. Miscavige
On September 1, 1982 David Miscavige, Special Project Ops for the Church of Scientology International, issued a CMO INT CONDITIONS ORDER 852 concerning myself and Vic Ueckerman. The first paragraph read: “Both Vic and Julie have been assigned to the RPF for Suppressive Misapplication of tech.”
It is my belief that this action, as well as many other activities at this time, were to have a profound effect on not just my life, but on many others — possibly thousands of others. Yet there are only a handful of people who really know the details of what happened then. The events were grossly mischaracterized in a suppressive person declare and expulsion order concerning David Mayo that was issued by Scientology in March of 1983. Because of that mischaracterization, I feel it is my duty now to straighten the record. Until I found a.r.s., I did not have the capability of telling my side of the story. And even now the majority of people who were touched by first the CMO INT CONDITIONS ORDER on myself, then the expulsion order on David Mayo, in most likelihood do not read a.r.s.
I hope David Miscavige reads a.r.s. because this is as much a message to him as it is to those many others who have read the two issues.
The facts are this:
In the summer of 1983 something called S.R.A.s started up at S.U. (Gilman Hot Springs). I don’t know who started the practice, but it is something that David Miscavige embraced and engaged in on many occasions. A “S.R.A.” was a “severe reality adjustment” and it consisted of several people ganging up on another person and interrogating and intimidating that person. The victim was thereby virtually “shocked” into a different reality — that is why it was called a “severe reality adjustment”. In my opinion, and in the opinion of David Mayo, this was a very “out tech” (meaning: harmful) procedure. It was intended to change a person’s mind about something by “force” rather than by reason or enlightenment. It is barbaric.
In the summer of 1983 David Mayo had some disagreements with management over high prices, SRAs, and other things. He was given an “SRA” by David Miscavige and a gang of other people. I was Senior C/S INT Assistant at the time, this was before we were married. When David was coming back from the “SRA” he tripped and twisted his ankle. In the office he told me about the SRA and how upset he was about it. I offered him some auditing, to help relieve his distress.
Now I am going to try to explain what happened without disclosing any “case” information or confidences of the “pc”. I wanted to do a process that would relieve the “charge” of the invalidation, evaluation, wrong items, wrong indications and so forth. I looked through my prepared lists. The list that seemed to address this type of charge the best was called “Effects of an R/Ser” list. So, I wrote a C/S which called for assessing the terminals who had been involved in the “SRA” and doing the “Effects of an R/Ser” list on each that read. I didn’t write the C/S because I thought that David Miscavige, et al, were “R/Sers” or “Suppressive Persons”. I wrote the C/S because I felt that it was the best list to help the pc. Auditing is for pc gain, not political reasons.
I didn’t expect anyone else except the C/S, Vic Ueckerman, to read the folder. In fact, it would have been extremely out tech for anyone else to read it. Well, you guessed it … even though I had the folder securely locked away, it was gotten at by messengers and passed around. Sure enough, the folder went to the names on the list, and my guess is that one person in particular found it very threatening. Sorry Dave, I didn’t mean that you were an R/Ser, and you shouldn’t have been reading the folder anyway, nor should have you been doing “SRAs”.
I know that my proposing a C/S for David Mayo of “Effects of an R/S” checklist wasn’t a major cause for the troubles that started at that time. It was just one of the things that happened. But I do think it was contributory to Miscavige’s war on myself and David. I think these things need to be cleared up. This C/S was mischaracterized in the Expulsion Declare that was issued in March of 1983 –which was sent out to a great many people and I thought you’d like to know what actually happened. In the expulsion order it was asserted that David Mayo ordered the C/S — not true. It was my idea and mine alone. I am taking full responsibility for having done it. I am not blaming the idea on anyone else. But it wasn’t “Out tech” and I shouldn’t have been assigned to the RPF for it because it helped the pc. (That was, it helped him, until his folder was spread around when it shouldn’t have been and contents used for political purposes.)
I’d like Miscavige’s war on myself, David Mayo, and so many other people stopped. But I don’t think information as to what actually happened should be suppressed. Too many people have been affected and scientology has meant a great deal to thousands of people. They deserve to know the truth.
Julie Gillespie Mayo
http://www.freezone.org/
Androvillans’s Blog
Just another WordPress.com weblog
http://androvillans.wordpress.com/2013/10/
Unfortunately, in their eyes we are the slaves, and they are free.
I was told that in 10th grade. I finally cut the noose in 2002. 🙂
Knatherthomas, you are the right person! 🙂 At first I didn’t trust myself with them (the church) because I was not yet Clear. Then I noticed they never achieved a result and kept changing the way in which they achieved no result. Finally I applied the tech to myself on my own and came to understand on my own how they were making the trouble. And anybody confused enough to come in their for help is “asking for it” whether they know it or not. I am very glad I took a bow and got out. As LRH says “It is not just freedom that is the goal. It is the maintaining of it one must assure.” That is good news! 🙂
Good advice!
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/11/02/worse-than-fair-game/#comment-72406
Moving on up a little downer1
Well, Cat Daddy, what you just said is a personal attack upon a person who is not able to respond to you or defend themselves at this time.
It is also non sequitur to my post.
Sadly no Westvleteran. Its VERY hard to get. Only from the brewery with advance booking and every time in recent years I’ve tried, too solidly booked.
However I visited a farm that has a wholesale beer business near Poperinge just past the border with France. Bought many various cases including La Trappe Quadrupel. One of my favorites. Had some also with an ESMB visitor at the White Horse in Fulham London which has every trappist beer except Westvleteran, and literally 100s more beers.
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/184/1402
ACK
He can get at me from Target Two if he wants
Guess I’ve been out of RCS longer than you. More practiced at
embracing and celebrating squirreldom 🙂
Who needs a silver certed RTC approved timepiece when one can get
a modern digital interface thats always in sync with God and Greenwich
for about the same price as coffee at Starbucks:)
I have watched the above video and I spotted in the video what it is that has caused alan to go nuts , he was smoking and drinking I presume tea or coffee with caffeine in the video , years of that would cause someone to go nuts , caffeine is a mind altering drug and so is nicotine and if he was drinking alcoholic drinks as well , thats even worse .
He needs to detox , I would recommend eating organic fruit and vegetables along with physical excercise for detoxing the body of toxins and poisons .
Ah Valkov!! Here we find common ground!!! If you are ever in LA come and look me up. We will have a beer together and play mind hockey with each others thoughts. I’m sure you can teach me a lot.
Yet another reason to love the founders of America! Beer!
Small world Cat Daddy, have you ever had that beer? It’s a small glass full and all you need is one, for that transcendental feeling!
🙂
Thank you Mark. There have been numerous injustices and acts of violence against my family over the years. These stories fuel my motivation to be on Marty’s blog.
I want to see justice brought to the doorsteps of this doctrine. Not just DM and the church………… but the doctrines birthed from the mind of a genius con.
I have had some folks on this site criticize my constant confronting of LRH as the source of all this craziness. Me being one sided and negative.
Tell that to Paulette Cooper and the parents of Lisa McPherson that they are being one sided. I have also had a family member’s folder sent to the GO for “CSing” at the hotel Martinique-NY Org. This was verified by my brother in law who later audited this family member. He said the processes run on her were to cave her in.
A short time later she was hit by a car a block away from the org. She said she never saw a car coming.
My wife has been fired from two jobs because of my SP status.
I was fired from one job and refused business in a recording studio.
Don’t talk to me of balance. These blogs are allowing me to express my distain for such horrible inhumanity. It feels good to confront and shed the light on evil.
And Ron is Source
Let me personalize it even more
http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm
“You shouldn’t be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself a nigger; that’s what they’re born for.”
–L. Ron Hubbard, in a letter to first wife, Polly Grubb
We must demand all Scientology Personnel and PC files destroyed along with the payment of a fair living wage for those wishing to stay after David is imprisoned or dead.
Is that what got to LRH in the end ?
Dear Greta,
Thanks much for sharing your Running Program story. Using it as pure punishment is pure sadism. I should have left the Sea org then and there but lasted another 8 years. Surreal. That’s how much in the tunnel I was.
Please tell the story of your RPF and RPF’s RPF and escape to Fountain Avenue and the pursuit to get you back. Many readers here do not know the story.
I made a video on the internal cruelty.
Here is Joe van staden’s account of th e birth of the Sea Org. He workd directly with LRH on this.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16669-Birth-of-the-Sea-Org&p=382595&highlight=Bill+Robertson+mission+St.+Hill#post382595
And here are Joe’s philosophical conclusions post Scientology. They are echoed in Ken Wilbur’s book “A Brief History of Everything”.It is a typical human trait to think that what is being perceived and experienced is real – that what our sensory receptors register is the way things actually are. In other words we do not question what we see and experience as being anything other than the way the world actually is. Yet within this conviction of what is real lies a well-hidden assumption. We assume that we are objective observers, able to investigate natural phenomena and view the human condition from an unbiased vantage point. The idea that our observations may be defined in terms of a biased human perspective is generally not factored into our worldview. Actually, how we define aspects of existence, such as time, space, energy and consciousness are first and foremost interpretations of the mind – the human perspective.
It was not realized by the architects of classical science that the nature of reality as measured and defined by them was given meaning, relevance and value in accordance with their own personal prejudices as well as the prevailing scientific mindset. The idea that the scientific observer’s observations may be subjected to a hidden personal frame of reference or paradigm, was not factored into the scientific community’s conclusions. This is still very prevalent today, in spite of revelations in quantum mechanics.
Actually our understanding of all we perceive and experience, all the laws of nature, including time, space and energy is first and foremost an interpretation of the mind – the human perspective. What we think of as reality is the human mind’s rendition of what enters our awareness via our senses, intellect and/or intuition. In other words, our human perception and experience – our humanness, is the only measure we have of what is real – of what is true.
“Time and space are not conditions of existence, time and space is a model for thinking” Einstein.
“What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning” Heisenberg.
“What we see depends on the theories we use to interpret our observations” Goswami.
Not only does beauty lie in the eye of the beholder but the meaning, relevance and value of everything. The human perspective, whether defined in terms of a frame of reference, a paradigm, a point of view or opinion is a mindset construct.
“It is in the nature of human beings to bend information in the direction of desired conclusions”. John Naisbitt.
“Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world”. Einstein.
“Things are this way because this is the story we humans tell based on the way we see the world and explain it”. Marcelo Gleiser.
No my father is more of a strong beer drinker than I. I had other non Trapist beers tough like Palm, Duvel de Koninck
Terril it sounds you have an ample selection to comfort you over there. Sounds like a smashing pub.
La Trappe Koninghoeve
http://www.latrappetrappist.com/
http://www.koningshoeven.nl/en/abbey/brewery.php
Isn’t your Name Peter ?
Once working in the Lrh Com network Folo EU ?
I think yes .
LOL !
What you said is still non sequitur to my comment which is that I have observed that Scientology Tech, when practiced by humane, caring, and intelligent practitioners, can be very beneficial to people.
But it is OK to be off subject. I guess you just had to find a place to communicate your hatred for L. Ron Hubbard.
You and Hubbard have two things at least in common:
You have been who you were,
…..and you are who you are.
I hope you two meet up one day.
I think so , and it has done in many scientologists , if they are using caffeine as a stimulant that is as bad as smoking .
@Galactic Commander … good thought on the file destruction, in my opinion. And what happens anyway with all the files collected over the last 50-60 years? Are they treated and stored confidentially? Are they destroyed after a certain length of inactive time? Are they paper or are they being digitalized? (Sort of a rhetorical question for a couple of those Qs.)
Something just tweaked my funny bone. Remember how in Jurassic Park the scientist (Ian Malcolm) said: “God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs.”
Perhaps for LRH the quote might become: “Big Thetan creates tech. Big Thetan destroys tech by screwing it up. Big Thetan creates SPs. SPs destroy Big Thetan. SPs create workable tech.”
Mark,
There is an Indie service for such.
email is: loyalofficer02@yahoo.com.
Good luck!
Greta
or just let it die once and for all…it has too much poison mixed into the tek to be worth salvaging…the sugar is in the beginning when the staff are “love bombing” you until they have obtained a huge chunk of money – then the “piltdown teeth” are bared…let it die!
Thank you Idle Morgue and Mary.
I am thinking it is better that my stories are told on video.
No purchase necessary and a global audience as well
Excuse me, but whilst Jesse Prince may well have written what he believes/believed to be true, he would have had no means of verification as to the true origin of any such orders, seeing as they sole communication line to and from Ron Hubbard at that time went between Pat Broeker and David Miscavige, Furthermore, David Mayo himself stated in a “debrief” that he had discovered that traffic on that line was being blocked or altered in at least as early as May or June of 1981.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Karen,
I was in the same tunnel you mentioned, really not wanting to get declared ‘SP, but one day on the RPF’s RPF something really rubbed me the wrong way, I simply stormed out of the building, lit up a cigarette (one could not smoke except during the 20 minutes mealtime, fork or spoon in one hand and a cigarette in the other hand) and started marching down Berendo Street just not giving a damn anymore. When I looked back I saw to my surprise the R’s R MAA at a respectful distance behind me and the whole rat tail of RPF’s RPFers behind him. THEY were in fear. I was so amused about that I cooled off, came uptone and once around the block I reentered the detested blue PAC building.
Let me tell you another one while I am at it: In the R’s R female dorm, there were at least 12 bunks in that small room, 3 beds stacked vertically.
I got a top bunk. Part of that window was open. I liked that and I think it was not very high up in the building. It gave me a CHOICE. I COULD if I wanted to, escape through that quite narrow opening. It gave me HOPE and thinking about that while going to sleep kept me at cause. Then they nailed a board over it – hope gone. I was in such despair I fell, while climbing up, on a metal bed bar and seriously reinjured my back. Talk about PTSness and one is supposed to get better in such circumstances?
Greta
MaryRathernotsay,
“Best to follow no one. Keep your eyes open and learn from everything
but be careful how far down any one path you decide to go.” by MaryRNS
Isn’t Marty wonderful 🙂
I don’t even start to go down a path any more unless it’s mine.
Cece
Brian ~ that was nicely said. Your intention is good and went right to the me in me. Thanks
Cece
Cat Daddy – personally, I think it was pretty low-down for this guy to even video this scene, let alone put it on youtube. We have no idea of what the circumstances of the situation were,and in fact we only have his side of the story. For all we know, the whole motive of this so-called “friend” of Alan’s was sheer vindictiveness.
I have read books 1 & 2 but not your memiors. But, now I do recall your description of service fac auditing (in earlier posts) and realise that you couldn’t write that without having experienced the gains of level 1V auditing (I’m using early 60’s data here). So you KNOW what auditing could mean for the rest of mankind. In fact you must have been part of the group who ensured that all of Ron’s tech was securely buried away in a safe place for future generations just in case this one failed? What I am trying to communicate is simply that destroying the reputation of the tech would be a betrayal of the human race. Exposing a corrupted organisation is the goal; not the destruction of the tech and Ron’s reputation. I never was involved with the Sea Org, for which I am thankful, but my interpretation of its purpose would be that it was meant to set and ensure the standards for the tech (and secondarily the administration of the organisation). It is my belief that the Sea Org tried to impose its own standards upon the lower grade orgs where the “cracking of resistant cases” was not the purpose. I experienced and observed gains in the early 1960’s which would satisfy anybody as to the veracity of the tech (without the existence of the SO). The SO, as far as I can make out was meant to achieve a standard which could resolve any failed cases experienced within lower grade orgs. But as with all human endeavours the staff couldn’t resist introducing complexity into the equation and set out to bring the standard of level V orgs up to SO standards. The result is the present mess. I hear what you say about Miscavige but since I have never met or seen the man I have to accept what you say about him. You are very convincing. My very first doubts about the church and DM came in 1993 when I experienced a fund raising event at my local org. I walked out after an hour or so of haranguing by a young blonde SO member even though I had, that year, been granted an amnesty by Miscavige (because of the tax win). I also attended an event where a video was to be shown. Except the video was unwatchable because the first 15 or so minutes was loud and overwhelming music and images. I walked out wondering what scientology had come to. So I have followed from then on on the internet and of course I’m horrified at what has happened to the organisation I happily joined in Nov 1961 because I had had gains so great that I wanted every one of my fellow beings to experience them.
I’m behind you all the way to expose the failings of the church but not at the expense of invalidating the tech and the efforts (unselfishly given) of LRH to make this planet a better place.
I can already imagine the likes of Cat Daddy spewing much invalidation about my “adoration” of Ron Hubbard. Its what appalls me about the bloggers on this site who have not the faintest idea of the gains that scientology tech, honestly applied, can bring about.
I’m not a writer as you can observe. I’m just a being who has had their mind damaged by the efforts of a true suppressive and then by my own exploration and investigation discovered that there was a technology whereby the pain I was experiencing (as in painful memories) could be made to dissipate. I was myself again! and I would hate for that tech to be denied to my fellow man.
I don’t think it is fair to characterize what I am doing when you have not even read what it is I am doing. Memoirs would largely fill that gap for you.
Now that’s what I call an emancipation proclamation!
I absolutely agree, Mike. Speaking out is the best thing one can do for oneself and others.
Many thanks to Marty and Mosey for their service in the interests of mankind.
You and Christie too, btw. We all know what you are doing to end scientology slavey, and what Christie does is one of the most important aspects of creating a viable future for generations to come. Very well done to you both.
You are such a good person with a big heart and your doing some real damage to the Cult. thank you Karen!! Thank all of you for what you do! It IS making a difference and YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! Love you all!!
Dassie – keep looking and please do get back to us later. You have not seen enough!
Thank you Brian. A voice of reason and truth! Scientology is very dangerous. It is Russian Roulette for the Mind…you never know where the bullet is – but it is there and it will destroy and/or kill!
Ealada – I know many people that smoke cigs and drink coffee and don’t know ONE person who went nuts from either or both. I really don’t think that is what drove Allen nuts! It looks like he got “help” from Scientology! Poor guy!
I could not find a humane, caring and intelligent practitioner IN Scientology. The ARC was all a con job. It was not sincere nor real. ARC is used to manipulate people. Scientology audits these traits out of humans! I have not met anyone outside of the cult either that has “super homo-novus” skills and abilities never seen by man before. Can you find me just one homo-novus that has done Scientology inside or out that can prove it? What exactly can Scientology auditing do for someone with lasting results? I would love to meet one clear that has the traits advertised. Not that it can’t give relief outside of Corporate Scientology – but so can many other therapies and practices. Scientology promises levels of awareness never seen by man before – where are they?
maybe I am his reincarnation 😉
You are right, I felt a bit icky posting it. Overt perhaps ?
Thank you Valkov, these things I need to take in and ponder over a few times.
I met her on course at London Org. Beautiful girl. I hope you find her
and that she’s well. You ever here perhaps we could share a glass of Konigshaven?
Something I admire Marty, Mosey, Christie and Mike for — in spite of their trials, in spite of being followed without let up …
They are enjoying their lives. In the words of Phatchok Rinpoche:
“My advice to all of you is this: Enjoy your life. Respect your body and respect others. Don’t do anything harmful. But don’t be too uptight. It’s very important to never forget to enjoy your life. Laugh! Laugh at yourself, laugh at delusion, laugh that you are here. (Rinpoche laughs)” —
And if you feel a bit too blue — watch this — always makes me smile. In fact, I go for walks with my dog in the woods and have often wondered? What does the fox say?
talking about reïncarnation: i am going to leave you in peace with this “old soul from Holland”
Good catch Mr Hobson.
Yes Karen ~ I appreciate very much your videos. Thank you for telling the story and Greta and the Julie Mayo letter from Cat Daddy. I was on the RPF when you got transferred to PAC RPF in 82/83? Then with you at AOLA when you were an auditor. You always looked so fresh alive and beautiful. I never would have known you went thru a ‘great sadness’ and were treated like that if you had not sad. I did wonder about what lead up to you leaving but I truly figured that if the auditors were leaving there must be some very very suppressive things going on tech wise.
The 87hrs I got in 2003/4 answered all my questions – why auditors and PCs were exiting or dying.
The auditing I received by a class 9 in AOLA’s NOTS unit was like reverse processing for me. It just got worse and worse and worse till I had enough and refused to return. It was the opposite of ‘relief’ which I had always experienced b4.
Cece
MarkNR,
“Perhaps the entire basis of negative gain auditing.”
This had nothing to do to what I had referred.
Frankly, I think you are a RCS agent and a fraud.
Unbelievable hypocrisy.
Good Grief
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1562251
Mary ~~
If you want to read books, read Marty’s books especially “Memoirs of Scientology Warrior”.
It is packed with history in laid out correct sequences and really brings you to understanding of the SLIPPERY SLOPE ~~ A relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, A policy letter here and there that could eventually snowball into catastrophic misconduct.
Hey Terril, just a note to you. When I first went on this blog I got that email from you. I actually thought it was Scientology thugs and I sent you back an email that put distance between us.
You told me about knowing Likki etc. Sorry for the misunderstanding. At the time I started on this blog I was a bit concerned and did not state my name. Isn’t it just the shits that a ‘religion’ causes fear.
Thanks for the beer invite. If I get to the UK I will look you up.
Thank you Idle Morgue
Perhaps. But that’s up to you to decide – as per true Scientology ethics, not the altered version.
Btw, I really commend you for your frequent willingness to confront things honestly. You are pretty likable, CD. 🙂
Karen, it’s just a standard Miscavige PR action. Counter accusations of Human Trafficking (“slavery”) with an attempted Dead Agenting caper: “how could these accusations possibly be accurate ? We’re *AGAINST* Slavery”. Yeah.
[I posted this same comment above, but I shall reiterate it as a direct response to these claims by Jesse Prince posted by Cat Daddy]:
Excuse me, but whilst Jesse Prince may well have written what he believes/believed to be true, he would have had no means of verification as to the true origin of any such orders, seeing as they sole communication line to and from Ron Hubbard at that time went between Pat Broeker and David Miscavige, Furthermore, David Mayo himself stated in a “debrief” that he had discovered that traffic on that line was being blocked or altered in at least as early as May or June of 1981.
Additional notes:
Jesse Prince was not a “eyewitness” to *ANY* comm from Ron Hubbard actually being written or dictated after the time Hubbard disappeared in early 1980 (per the report on this blog by John Brousseau). The only people who would know for a sure fact what comm *actually* was issued by Ron Hubbard from that time until Steve “Sarge” Pfauth came to the Creston Ranch would be Pat and Annie Broeker.
Therefore, Jesse Prince does not possess factual knowledge that Ron Hubbard actually ordered anyone to “attack staff” as he claims – *even if Hubbard actually did*.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Marty, you got SWAG! love ya
Wow, that was quite a reaction. Are you sure you understood what he meant? Here’s the idea I got:
“With the advent of a science of thought, whereby some of the natural laws of theta are understood, man can in one lifetime disenturbulate his theta and MEST and benefit from the experience gained by the enturbulence.” (Science of Survival)
In other words, the “scars” of enturbulence can be handled in auditing with the result that they no longer “dictate where we’re going” because of stimulus-response – i.e. we get negative gain.
Your comment is unimformed. I ran the only OT process called Routine 6 Own Goals from which the key-out process R6EW was derived. That was in 1964 7.5 hours per day solo and co-audit with people like Joe van Staden and John McMaster and Jane Kember AND Alan Walter. I think it is you who has a great deal more looking to do.
Okay. I agree. I’ll get the book. And I really do thank you for your drive to free members from the slavery of a church which does the very opposite to Ron’s basic philosophy which was to free man from his reactive mind.
If scientologists really knew what drugs cause they would not be taking them , they think they know but they really do not know .
I know that anyone smoking cigaretts and drinking coffee or tea is not completely sane .
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22972-ESMB-Poster-quot-David-Mayo-quot/page5
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/david-mayo-posting-on-esmb.79329/
Ron the Humanitarian: Children OWE their parents and you should train them like dogs(child dianetics). Children are fully responsible Thetans: inviting sexual abuse and child labour.
and finnaly having a policy that says Scientology is better than family when it comes to family rendering the parents powerless.
Thank you Michael. I think we have to assume that anything that supposedly came from Ron after early 1980 is suspect.
Beautiful. Thanks for that, CD.
I’m sure you are very resourcefull and yet havn’t found her. I gather you
have remarried and Likkie may have also which could make it difficult to find her. In the UK its possible to divorce unilaterally if the spouse is not contactable. Maybe this happened and she’s back in the UK which also
makes it harder for you to trace her. Possibly I could help in this. If so
contact me at basic2basic@yahoo.com
So no actaul forum comments?
Only rumors of his registration?
Full cirkle
I had an oversight: From Freud to L Ron Hubbard(and others) to Meta-Psychology AND having a parralel path too Para-psychology (Telepathy, remote viewing, outerbody etc)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology
CD
No doubt we have been screwed on the price of e-meters and their maintenance for decades.
This agent is likely correct as to the physical parts. With what HE knows he came to the conclusion he came.
As far as the actual workability of an e-meter goes, I don’t care how many Ph Ds someone attaches to his name, the understanding of the physical components simply ISN’T enough to blow all claims of a mental
workability into the wind.
Sure body motion will show on the meter but all muscle twitching for decades will NOT make a release or clear.
This is no reason to invalidate one’s gains made in auditing with
this device.
Greta
This is almost unbelievable.
Not seeing the name I could have sworn it was Sarah Brightman’s voice!
Thank you!
Greta.
Mister Hobson,
You said Sherman Lenske, the two brothers there. What is the role of Sherman Lenske in Scientology?
J: They, as I recall them specifically, they would arrange to make sure, or get them advice to make sure that it was covered up, that L. Ron Hubbards’ authority and control over all corporations was covered up during the time he was living. They also advised him on certain things to make LRH not do, and not say. That was also a big discrepancy and problem, that ended up with the brokers. His attorneys would limit LRH’s control more and more. The excuse was “We give you any kind of money you want, just shut up and take the money and let us run things.” L. Ron Hubbard felt like he was just pushed out of the picture, not that he shouldn’t have been, because he was pretty damn crazy, and I’m not justifying one way or the other, but that was the struggle with the brokers and L. Ron Hubbard. David Miscavige I believe, just forced L. Ron out of existence.
L: He was just taking control away from Hubbard a little piece at a time while he was alive?
J: Yeah, and L. Ron Hubbard saw it. I had to sec-check David Miscavige on this. L. Ron Hubbard asked me, “Please find out what is his intention, what is he doing by making it so I can’t even sent a dispatch or order anyone to do anything that I normally do.”
L: L. Ron Hubbard believed that David Miscavige may be trying to take over control of Scientology?
J: Yes.
L: And he was worried about it?
J: Yes.
L: He sent you to..
J: ..investigate it.
L: To do a security check, and find out any overts and evil intentions –
J: …activities that he had been doing.
L: When you sec checked Miscavige on that, did anything come up?
J: Yeah, he was in complete disagreement with L. Ron Hubbard, he was in complete disagreement with Pat Broeker as to what should happen and when it should happen. And he was sick of giving them money because he said they just wasted money.
L: So he was even thinking of cutting L. Ron Hubbard off from money?
J: Right.
http://www.factnet.org/jesse-prince-tape-3-4
About Jesse Prince – Formerly the 2nd highest ranking officer in Scientology’s Sea Organization
http://www.lermanet.com/prince/
http://www.factnet.org/node/1534
Jesse Prince Tapes
Inside the world’s most dangerous cult: Jesse Prince interviews
Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince
Table of Contents
An introduction to the Jesse Prince tapes
There are comments It’s just a bitch to find them
As has been stated by myself and many others, The meter is a useful tool in the hands of a skilled user. It would be quite insane to throw out all knives, microscopes or x-ray machines because of incompetency or harmful intent of the user. It does what it does and doesn’t do what it doesn’t do,
Examination of ones past is an important PART of enlightenment and quite impossible for some without assistance.
Mark
Hello Tom G.
Sorry to have misinterpreted your statement. I have been guilty of glib off the cuff statements before. Posting comments on this site assumes you know what is meant by neg. gain. Since I have seen your name before, I will assume that you have glanced at some of my comments. Since I have been accused flatly of treachery, perhaps I should explain myself to those who know little of me.
My father read Dianetics in 1950 (wish I had that signed 1st edition) and did the HSDC ,forerunner to NED, in 68, At that time, at age 12, I read all the basic books and did the HAS course. I ‘decided’ that Scn. was basically correct and useful and continued study in the science.
After a trip through the Army and a couple of marriages, I re-connected with a mission in SE US. Was on the HQS when I encountered a few Scientologist that didn’t appear to live up to the standards I had set for them. A couple were just plain nuts. What the hell !!!!! Got on the wrong side of ethics and the handling didn’t seem the least bit sensible. I left.
I connected with an Org. around 2000 and purchased training to Cl-5 and received more auditing.
I had read and used Ken Oggers work and found it quite sensible and therapeutic. I had also studied eastern religions and had recognized the shortcomings that Ron had mentioned, but also found many accurate principals that were either missing or poorly explained or poorly emphasized by Ron. I recognized that all had merit and all had errors and shortcomings. But the proof is in the results, when properly and honestly applied.
I had some encounters with some managers that were heading up an Ideal Org. project and saw a very troubling trend. To public, they were all smiles and enthusiasm, but if you were working under their direction, they were tyrants with no sense of ARC or relative importance. Only a mindless obsession for others to do what was currently on HIS mind.
That was when I came to consider myself an Independent Scientologist. I began reading Ind. articles and they aligned with my observations. I have since continued solo auditing and study of Scn. and other spiritual and philosophical knowledge.
There a few things that I have solidly learned (for myself anyway) in the last 10 years. That I, and many others are immortal and have been around a long time.That I, and others I’ve worked with have, to our detriment, built up a lot of opinions and confusions that we are unaware of and unable to change. We have become very complex. That a systematic, structured, methodical method of self examination of ones past is a necessary part of any significant, long lasting spiritual improvement. (So called neg. gain.) But that alone will eventually prevent further gain and can actually cave one in. Exercise of ones basic abilities and knowledge of life gained from others and from observation and self verification of that is an absolute necessity. That the route to improvement is not a straight line and is not the same for everyone, but there are common phenomenon that serve as a good starting point It is a wise and knowledgeable one indeed who can accurately assist another on his path.
That current spiritual knowledge on earth can get to perhaps 1 or 2% toward what most consider the ultimate desirable goals. The rest has to be done on ones own as a sort of research project of sorts.
There is one ability without which one cannot make significant progress.
THE ABILITY TO PUT FORTH LONG TERM EFFORT TOWARD A GOAL. The quantity of things to learn and discover is immense and cannot be gotten around. The lazy dilettante simply won’t succeed.
One other thing I have learned that is certain, for me, is that ones or others errors do not discount his successes. Tsu’s or Ron’s or Freud’s or Moses’s mistakes must not be allowed to hide the accurate information that is available.
I have gained very much happiness and abilities through my efforts and have seen a time in my past when I had much more. I believe it is worth working for.
My comments accurately reflect what I have observed and believe. Anything else would be a disservice to you and me.
Just sayin’.
Mark
P.S.
The great majority are unwilling and unable to rise spiritually without assistance. An individual must be reaching for that assistance to be worthwhile.. That first assistance must be competent and honestly caring or the reach will be lost.
Mark
CD, where did you get that hash? LRH wrote 5-6 page Introduction to Child Dianetics in 1951, and in it he goes to great lengths to explain why children CANNOT be “trained like dogs” and why this should not be attempted!
Here is an excerpt from it. All of it needs to be read for context.
“The main consideration in raising children is the problem of training them without breaking them. The Jesuits had a system which is reported to have been workable but the system perished with the Jesuits.
In contradistinction, the American Medical Association lately came out with a pamphlet which was called HOW TO CONTROL
YOUR CHILD.
That’s just what you don’t want to do. You want to raise your child in such a way that you don’t have to control him, so that he will be in full possession of himself at all times.
Upon that depends his good behavior, his health, his sanity.
Children are not dogs. They can’t be trained as dogs are trained. They are not controllable items. They are, and let’s not overlook
the point, men and women. A child is not a special species of
animal distinct from Man. A child is a man or a woman who has
not attained full growth.”
What you posted is a complete hash of the ideas he presents in this introduction to the point of being a reversal of what he wrote, which seems very heart felt to me.
I would post it but it is 5-6 pages however here is a link to the PDF so you can read it for yourself.
http://www.tep-online.info/laku/usa/reli/scien/SECRETDOX/CHILD_DIANETICS.pdf not be attempted because it will damage them,
Well again a problem with formatting of my post. It should conclude with “He says that trying to train children like dogs will be damaging to them!”
Karen, I have never met a sweeter, more kind person than you. You are a magical auditor and a true angel. NO ONE deserves the kind of treatment you endured! But especially someone like you! I had no idea until recently that you yourself had endured this kind of treatment. You have too much class to wear what occurred as a “motivator” so who knew?
The people who treated you and others this way were and, unless they have come to their senses, ARE horrible and suppressive criminals. These acts are a mind-boggling betrayal of beings.
How the #@@*** could these “people” think that they were practicing Scientology?!! They are ALL phoney liars and/or idiots. Every one. Every participant. They are addicted to power for its own sake. Apparently many high purposed, well-intentioned people in the SO were betrayed in this manner for doing their jobs by these trailer-trash types posing as “elite administrators”.
Thank you for seeing through their lies and shadows and bringing yourself and others into the Sunlight. The dawn is coming.
Spoken from the heart, Dassie. I too know that Scientology does work and I personally experienced benefits similar to those which you had back in that era (mine were just a few years later). I really appreciate your giving your perspective and encouraging others not to mix up the actual Tech with the administration thereof. I’m with you on this.
And Cat Daddy, no, I have not, do not, and never will “worship” Ron Hubbard, although I do think of him as a friend.
And Marty, yes, I have read all of your books and loved about 99% of what you wrote.
” I knew Miss Cabbage before he was asked by L Ron to attack staff. He NEVER put a hand on any staff member period and I knew him for years prior to his orders to attack staff members.”
I got it that his was what you witnessed, but there are MANY reports that BEFORE he joined the SO, David Mi$cavige physically assaulted one of his PCs in session while at Saint Hill. I also have a friend (an auditor) who knew him and socialized with his family before he was in the SO who described him threatening people physically at that time.
When you say that you saw “LRH advices” ordering DM to assault people and compliance reports, I don’t doubt that you saw what you saw, but I wonder if you are absolutely certain that they came from LRH. And if, so exactly what leads you to that certainty. How are you so absolutely certain that what you saw actually originated from Ron? I have heard that there were people up lines who were authorized to “sign” things on behalf of RON using automated pens and such. I have also read in descriptions from various sources, including Marty’s books that DM gradually isolated Ron from others even including his own family so that all comm was controlled by DM.
I am suspicious of “LRH advices” in general because they have been and are to this day used by the RTC to justify the alteration Bulletins and Policy letters, despite that fact that almost no SO members, let alone public, are allowed to view them. They are a hidden data line.
point taken. I geuss I now have to refer to Marty’s book
Likewise. One thing about L Ron Hubbard and Scientology, it made me dive into a lot of material on the mind.
Thank you for informing me. Was it Mary Sue who wrote a lot about family and children Valkov ?
The thing is that on the ship it seem to get all reversed and it makes me think all the good words are just lipservice.
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/child-dianetics-leak-sickening.40893/
“If you want to control your child, simply break him into complete apathy and he’ll be as obedient as any hypnotized half-wit. If you want to know how to control him, get a book on dog training, name the child Rex and teach him first to "fetch" and then to "sit up" and then to bark for his food. You can train a child that way. Sure you can. But its your hard luck if he turns out to be a blood-letter. Only dont be half-hearted about it. Simply TRAIN him. "Speak, Roger!" "Lie Down!" "Roll over!"
Of course, you’ll have a hard time of it. This — a slight oversight — is a human being. You’d better charge right in and do what you can to break him into apathy quickly. A club is best. Tying him in a closet without food for a few days is fairly successful. The best recommended tactic, however, is simply to use a straight jacket and muffs on him until he is docile and imbecilic.”
And rum and “pink and greys” ?
For some reason posting Phil always makes me feel goiod about myself
Time to post the for me most intresting clips of Hubbard.
Lol, that reminds me that Scientologists saw the Moonies as a cult and the Moonies saw scientology as a cult
Michael and you were not the second most important sea org member at the time.
OMG, surely you haven’t missed the mockery in this?
Creste Create Creat Destroy Nothingness
Cat Daddy
I was in a protest march in Atlanta in the mid 80s at the district court there. Scientologists, members of the Unification Church (Rev. Sun Myung Moon, ‘Moonies’) and a few others were protesting the Florida law requiring persons disseminating religion door to door to carry a state issued ID. Heber Jentz was there and a couple of other celebs. We all marched together.
Turns out freedom is a bit of a funny thing to some. Marching for freedom while continuing to restrict the freedoms of those marching. Irony?
Mark
Karen !!!!!! Yay
She went missing early nineties. We were happily divorced and remained friends. She may be in the states. Many people have looked for her. Family included. She may want to remain hidden.
Who knows, maybe she wants to remain hidden from the religious mafia.
Thank though Terril for the desire to help.
If you think can’t be because he is born in L Ron Hubbards lifetime you forgot that being OT means being in control over matter energy space and TIME. 😉
Can’t be held fully responsible for it’s actions and needs to be protected from harm
A child is not a special species of
animal distinct from Man. A child is a man or a woman who has
not attained full growth.”
Are you now claiming to have served in the Sea Org on the Apollo ?
Cat Daddy, you say “Time to post the for me most interesting clips of Hubbard.”
What do you mean by “interesting”? Right after the very first minute of the first video he states:
“Hypnotism…since time immemorial has never had any success yet. Why? …the whole process of hypnotism is the exact parallel process to the dwindling spiral.”
“Hypocrisy” is even an understatement! The cheek of these promoters of human bondage “protesting” slavery. They should be marching to protest themselves! Unbelievable. I doubt that Karin Poo’s phone will be ringing off the hook with press inquiries to this COS “press release”.
“Actually, if you look at the cases psychiatry used such severe methods on, you will likely find Scientology in actual practice has no clue what to do with such people, either. They are labled PTS Type 3, and a communication embargo is not a helpful handling, having instead disastrous effects.”
A bit of an attempt to rewrite history here I believe. Scientology’s standard recommended handling for people who are delusional (“PTS Type III”) is a quiet safe environment, rest, good nutrition, and no harassment.
On the other hand, psychiatry’s standard, preferred, recommended treatments for people in this condition over the decades has been beatings, straight jackets, lobotomies, electro-shock, insulin shock, “psycho surgery”, and heavy addictive drugs with side effects that rival or surpass the conditions that they are prescribed for.
I think that you should take an honest look at this.
Inferring that the mainstream mental “health” industry “has a clue” about handling people in this condition while Scientology Tech does not does not ring true to me. Many SO practices are a different animal entirely and have more in common with abusive mental “health” practices than anything else.
I heard about David too. Knew him from way back.
“He was a sweet person – good people as we used to say.”
So true. I only hope everyone will feel the same way about me when I kick the bucket. Unlikely, I admit.
Godspeed, David.
You know Espiritu ~
Tons of policy letters have been written about QUAL.
Even that whole track empires died with an absence of QUAL
However, QUAL became an endangered species as Radical Taliban Scientology substituted Ethics “HEAVY ETHICS” for Qual.
There were no mistakes, there were onlyCRIMES done from Evil Purposes and continuing overts and witholds hence endless Truth Rundown and False Purpose Rundown.
Hence 5 to 12 years in the RPF gulag.
The entire spiritual journey for Public and Staff became a Grade 2. Look for more overts, look for more crimes ! The higher up the person the more untrusted and suspect they became, sec check them every 6 months ! Tether them to being “on the level” for $30,000 a year and dole out heavy ethics and heavy reg cycles year in and year out.
Qual as a concept is almost dead.
The Nazi storm troopers in those heavy boots kick hard using Ethics punitively with domination and superiority calling themselves
Religious Technical Center.
It’s ecclesiastical ! 😆
Thank you Cece
Karen, you are so suppressive! 🙂 And here is another point. When I was 18 I remember you said to me (to everybody in the audience) “I am a fanatic about health” meaning your point of view at the World Tour Event in New York. I thought to myself “She MUST be healthy, because she is a Class XII”. I have believed in you and had faith in you ever since. I just have. 🙂 Even after I left the church I was scared because I remember thinking “Oh, that Karen lady, she knows everything!” 🙂 When I read that you had left the church I had to re-read it! 🙂 I finally got it and now I think NOT ONLY are the 14 characteristics above applicable to the medieval sub-barbaric structure of the Church of Scientology but for them to declare a VEGAN an SP? 🙂 I had to really really think if the church has totally lost it this time around again! IMPOSSIBLE! 🙂 There is no such thing at an OT Vegan SP! 🙂 I know you know that! 🙂 Think of what might become of them if they ever decided to take a look at the 5th Dynamic for a change and how it relates to their 1st Dynamic and how this relates to their 3rd, 4th & 2nd Dynamics! By golly, they just might make some G** DA** F****NG sense for a change heh? 🙂
So, CD, what do you make of that, that on the ship it seemed to get all reversed? That is the mystery, isn’t it? When and how and why did LRH reverse on the principles he stated so clearly in
the beginning, in the early and even late 1950s? What happened?
And your point, by quoting this bitterly sarcastic paragraph of the Introduction? What is your point? Considering it in the context of the rest of the Introduction, I can only feel “Shame on you!” I can only think, “Well, OK, English is not CD’s first language….”
To miss the obvious meaning of this (The entire article) indicates an intent to miss it.
Mark
I don’t think that is the case with Cat Daddy, but I do think it’s the kind of thing that happens – people see what they are looking for. It’s something like a Rorschach test – they’re looking for hypnotism in the tech, for example, so that’s what they see.
Men can talk about all the high talk, be wonderfully wise with words. But words are meaningless unless back up with action.
Touting the benevolence of proper child rearing and then putting them in chain lockers is what you call hypocrisy, fraud, con job and a lie.
It’s very simple
But assimilating and coming to grips with these dichotomous aspects of Ron is not.
A man can say with words very high philosophy that sounds like the wisdom of the ages. But when actions are not aligned with those words we have a deficit in truthfulness and wisdom.
So maybe what happened Valkov, is the man Ron, was never what he promoted himself to be.
Genius and con
Maybe what happened Valkov is that there has been enough time and evidence, documented by real people, to reveal the real nature of Ron.
And that his written words are not who he is in reality.
Sorry to hear the news. It was through David that I recently found out an old friend of mine had passed away-Phil Hosmer. David used to clean our carpets years ago too. Although I didn’t know him well. All the best David…
It goes further, Auditing is a form of hypnotism, can be good or can be bad depending on the intention of the Auditor.
nope, seems that all Scientologists put fingers in their ears and go “LALALALA” when it comes to Hubbards behavior onthe ship
As long as it furthered his agenda principles where adhered, Allready w\hen writing book one he was: Cheating on his wife with his 20 year old assistant and making up the “cases”in book 1
I do see it but to come up with it indicates some state of mind.
who in the hell comes up with yhis kind of stuff even in mockery. Makes Anonymous seem like a schoolboy
“Bazinga”
From an interview with David Mayo:
“They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and start running out, it would turn a body into pulp in no time at all. I saw children locked up in the chain locker. He had a birthday party on March 13 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had her brought out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes – she had been in there a week. She was pretty dirty – he brought her out to the party, he said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She still wasn’t allowed to wash or change, so she was brought to the party and had to stay and later she was returned [to the locker]. He said he was giving her a reprieve but it was just flaunting her degradation. It had looked like things were lightening up a little, people thought maybe things were getting better, then this happened and people were shocked and it gave us a sinister chill. She was in a dress.
From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities, like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else. He said that no one was to be put into the chain locker by his order or decree, and Baron Burez was an evil monster for having chain lockered people. Baron was a US crew member and went into disfavour. He would start such pronouncements with, “It has just come to my attention that…”
The length of time for children would vary, but no one was there less than a day. The average was a week or two. Three weeks was about the maximum. Age didn’t matter. The youngest kids were 5, 6 or 7. Old, young, men, women, big, little; it wouldn’t matter because to Scientologists the being is ageless so you don’t think in terms of how young or old someone is.”
[…]
“He could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty. It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered – a mandatory attendance – we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also. It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, “Faster, Faster!”. It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person’s will, and making people watch. It was disgusting.”
Karen Karen Karen “cheers”
Cat Daddy, are you aware of books from the 30s-60s on how to bring up children? Some of them are quite shocking and do indeed seem to treat the child as if he or she were a different species.
That said, I was in the cadet org and know for a fact Child Dianetics was never actually practiced. As so much in Scientology, whether it was originally stated with honest intent, it ended up being lip service.
Espiritu, perhaps you should stop viewing psychiatry through the eyes of CCHR and at the same time confront a real PTS Type 3 case and see if Scientology can actually do anything for them?
Any time one receives auditing, counseling, advice etc. he places his trust in the one helping and opens up his vulnerability. Such as one with a large cut entrusts a doctor to properly care for his wound. This trust can be rewarded or betrayed by the individual giving the help. Choose your help wisely.
Mark
True teachers live what they teach.That is a teacher.
One rejected gay child who commits suicide, one son trashing dad constantly in the media, and one son Arthur who when questioned about dad looks down and away (Arthur was in my house when I asked him) does not bode well for knowing how to rear children.
By there fruits you shall know them.
Are you ignoring what Valkov already posted, the context of “this stuff”? It should have answered your question:
“The main consideration in raising children is the problem of training them without breaking them. The Jesuits had a system which is reported to have been workable but the system perished with the Jesuits. In contradistinction, the American Medical Association lately came out with a pamphlet which was called HOW TO CONTROL YOUR CHILD.”
Btw, I believe there are still schools of thought that take the approach of training a child like you would a dog – i.e. the use of stimulus-response mechanisms, which is essentially implanting.
There are the names of the ones so easily forgotten. YAY
Are you reacting to the word “hypnotism” just because certain forms of it are used by some practitioners with the intent to control? Maybe your purpose as and Anon against such things can sway your judgement sometimes and cause you to overreact, and thus lose your ability to be rational. That would explain why you missed the point that auditing is not a method of control – just the opposite: It increases self-determinism and puts the pc in better control. I think you even know that, CD, don’t you? And you also know that, like any tool, it can be used for good or bad, depending on intent.
Yes I agree
That sounds like Slavery to me
I am positive towards Auditing Miraldi. And I am positive to forms of Hypnotheraphy
Yes I maybe too young and the 50ties and 60ties were kind of horrible in many ways when it came to raising children or dealing with mental health
I forgot, I think it comes from having been raised by my parents. Good childhood and such
Okay I agree. Wish Hubbard followed his own advice
Marty, as an example, there’s a book that was written in 2010 titled *To Train Up A Child* (written and published by Michael and Debi Pearl). I found a link that gives quite a few quotes from the book, including one where the authors recommend spanking a 3 year old until he is ‘totally broken.”
“She then administers about ten slow, patient licks on his bare legs. He cries in pain. If he continues to show defiance by jerking around and defending himself, or by expressing anger, then she will wait a moment and again lecture him and again spank him. When it is obvious he is totally broken, she will hand him the rag and very calmly say, ‘Johnny, clean up your mess.’ He should very contritely wipe up the water.”
Do you know of any similar recommendations in Scientology materials?
delete
When I party with a friend being online. I get in a sharing mode wich isn’t always on subject.
Valkov that about Arthur is a really distrurbing sign.
Have a good laugh too in the process
Exactly, whacked out radical, religious extremists. To answer your question, read my blog. And if you continue to persist with your inane questions I’ll finally conclude what Just Me apparently correctly did two years ago the first time you made comments that smacked of the OSA invisible hand.
Hi Dassie, you said:-
“I can already imagine the likes of Cat Daddy spewing much invalidation about my “adoration” of Ron Hubbard. ”
Cat Daddy’s a friend and thats not what he’s inclined to do. He very much appreciated the LRH books I gave him, and has studied further. He’s in a way an indication of hope for the subject. He started as an anon protester.
Has read just about all criticism of Hubbard and CO$, and yet advocates Hubbard should have an important place in the annals of spiritual and psychological development.
Note that no one has made stronger efforts to distinguish the tech from CO$ than Marty.
It remains that the tech and Hubbard are or were flawed. But used with good intent the tech is a powerful tool for empowerment. Its useful to re examine it from time to time.
I was doing some study on an unrelated field recently. I was introduced to something called the Dunning-Kruger effect (see http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.64.2655&rep=rep1&type=pdf).
The Dunning-Kruger effect leads to people thinking they are great experts when in fact they are lowly skilled or incompetent. I believe Hubbard may have fallen prey to this effect, leading to claims like:
— An exaggerated war record
— Belief he had outstanding skill as a photography
— Claiming to be a nuclear physicist when he failed in that area
— Holding that he understands radiation when he is off base
— Believing he saw a Venutian civilization that could not exist
— Misunderstanding the speed of light yet believing physicists are wrong
— Crafting a drug treatment program (Narconon) that is under fire, when he himself used various drugs at various points in his life, including the end
— Launching study tech into Applied Scholastics, which is not measuring up to claims
— Making claims about IQ, health, diseases, somatics, etc. in Book One that proved to be false
— Holding that he was a great movie director (by all accounts I’ve heard, his films were awful)
— Claiming to be a worldwide explorer when he was only minimally in that vein
— Believing he had cracked cosmic riddles beyond any other being
— Believing he understood dangerous materials like fiberglass on ships, while writing policy that ignored super-dangerous materials like asbestos (esp. blue)
— Provided supposedly superlative organizational tech that nonetheless led Scientology (Church of,) to arguably fail and become suppressive
In short, can anyone think of an area where Hubbard did not claim he was an expert?
I think Hubbard was likely a narcissistic individual. He fell short in the Navy, so he created his own (the Sea Org). When he asked for psychiatric help and did not receive it as a veteran, he created his own psychology. When he couldn’t make enough money writing sci-fi, he started a religion, wherein, as source, he is always right, and anyone who disagrees either has a misunderstood word, overts and withholds, or evil purposes.
As a possible (damaged) narcissistic individual who possibly suffered from the Dunning-Kruger effect, he would have found his ego inflated beyond belief and his sense of being a profound expert in every conceivable field reinforced by dedicated, adulating followers.
When cold, hard reality eventually impinged, he fell apart. He grew old. His health failed. He became a wanted man, who could not make it “go right” with law enforcement and federal agencies. He betrayed his wife, letting her take the fall for him. He became depressed and relied on psychiatric meds. He became a recluse. His own son, years before the end, was evidently gay (Hubbard himself is alleged to have had a gay relationship with one sci-fi writer) when Scientology was adamantly against homosexuality as an aberration — and the son, Quentin, either committed suicide or was murdered. He had to disavow the first clear or lost them — not having been able to demonstrate that even Book One clear was possible to attain, much less OT VIII (full cause, subjectively and objectively, over matter, energy, space, time, life, and thought) was an attainable state. On and on, until he died a forsaken death in near isolation at a typical age for a member of Homo sapiens (not Homo novis).
Still, he managed to pull together the most intricately detailed procedures for spirit-mind development ever attempted to my knowledge. And he left behind a plethora of concepts and techniques that are still well worth exploring and applying (some of my favorites include TR 0, ARC triangle, communication cycle, concept of randomity, spirals and gradients, auditor’s code, types of determination (self, other, pan), dynamics, conceiving of the mind as being organized into chains of similar incidents, concept of mental charge being physically measurable, development of a device to help guide counseling (e-Meter), concept of thetan (being a soul, not having one), concept of exteriorization (being able to have a viewpoint outside the body without needing a body, rather than having an astral body that separates from the physical body), concepts of overts-withholds-motivators (applied sanely, these are powerful and helpful concepts for individuals and societies), ridges (easy to demonstrate) and other phenomena not really named or called out before Hubbard to my knowledge, some but not all aspects of study tech, and much more.
What I would throw away: ethics, cult-ism, organizational technology, disconnection, prohibitions against entheta (this is a pure cult control mechanism — someone who was truly “clear” could surely communicate with anyone on any subject), fake history and lies, and so on.
What I would hope someone would do would be to subject the various concepts of Scientology to review, study, source identification (did Hubbard invent it or did he adopt it from someone else), evaluate, and report out on in controlled scientific studies. If parts of the tech are true, they will stand up to scrutiny. If not, why would anyone hold on to them?
(There is clearly much that Hubbard “borrowed” in what one author called bricoleur fashion. One likely borrowing that I came across was the axiom that space is a viewpoint of dimension. That probably came from an almost identical definition — used by artists and painters for a century or more.)
Hubbard definitely succeeded in smashing his way into history. Sort of like “A Tale of Two Cities,” he may end up going down as “the best of gurus, the worst of gurus.”
The blond hair judge says “het is een oude ziel”or “that’s an old soul. I believe in that. I alsoo believe that I am an earth spirit and I am a rather young soul.
As I get olderr this lifetime I begin to appeciate classic music more.
An admirable purpose Marty, and quite similar to my one and only reason for continuing to work to expose the abuses and so on. That is, so that others mentally enslaved can get the truth. What they do with it after that is up to them, but ignorance IS slavery.
1 of 6
An outraged person. We are talking here about a culture in which children were paddled in school for misbehavior then whipped with a belt at home, for getting paddled in school.
Anonymous is a schoolboy.
“Making money books” are very populair in scientology. “the Tech” doesn’t cut it so “other ffish to fry” books are welcomed when it comes to making money.
Yes. A state of mind. An outraged state of mind.
Auditing is a form of communication. So is hypnotism. That doesn’t make them the same thing.
Or, how much auditing have you done? How much hypnotism have you done?
Wasn’t it 1978 when “the soldiers boot” first was applied to “normal Scientology’s” troath
I don’t follow what you’re saying. Can you rephrase?
Brian, I’l be blunt. I think you are biased against the man because of what happened with Likki.
People change. Likki changed, you have changed. LRH may very well have meant what he said in 1952; even then he may have not been able to live up entirely to his own stated ideals. But he may have been trying; he may have wished to. Perhaps his attempts to develop a workable tech were based on his wrestling with his own demons.
It was what? 15 years later when he was on the ship, having people be put in chain lockers? You know, he wasn’t physically doing that himself. Other were carrying out his “orders”. Others were complicit, no matter how much of a jerk or Captain Bligh LRH was being, others were complicit.
“Let him who is without sin, etc” However, I cant’ blame you for being bitterly angry. I would be, too.
I really got the idea from other comments that you were positive. But then what is your purpose in posting and re-posting those videos about hypnotism – which encourage a misinterpretation of auditing?
Yes, Brian, maybe. Maybe. Maybe. And maybe you are not really the person you say you are , here on this blog.
How do I know? You are someone posting as a “Brian”. You could be anyone. A woman, a pedophile, a murderer, a thief. How do I know. You are so into “holy goodness”, it makes me think you have some powerful demons of your own you are wrestling with.
When push comes to shove, you either forgive others their trespasses, or you don’t, right? Or you do try?
If you were sitting for a jury, I think you would be challenged and dismissed. I don’t see how you can say LRH did no good at all. There are too many people who have testified to the contrary. As little Scientology as I was exposed to, I would have to say he did me a lot of good.
I obviously misinterpreted what you meant on the earlier comment and missed the point. I’ll try to learn something from that. In turn, I wish that you would give me the benefit of the doubt as to my basic intentions. You may not realize how hard your words hit.
Marty, I ‘m pretty sure Texas is one of 22 States that still condones the use of corporal punishment in schools. SCOTUS ruled it was Constitutional in 1977 and it is still practiced in schools and condoned by many parents.
http://school.familyeducation.com/classroom-discipline/resource/38377.html
“Spare the rod and spoil the child”, you know?
Uncalled for Ad Hominem remark. I asked a reasonable question, since you failed to clarify that your opinions are based solely upon the reports of others.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
1of 7, If onley Ron was like him (yes if if if game)
Marty and Mosey, You belong.
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/millionmaskmarch-stay-on-target-stay-safe.114737/#post-2379561
Sue you in London
USA: Anonymous rallies at White House for Million Mask March
Why would you agree or disagree? I am writing about the 1970s in the USA. You are in Holland. How would you know to agree or disagree?
With Mark Bunker and Karen de la
https://whyweprotest.net/community/attachments/o7vx6-jpg.210020/
I fully support and laud your efforts.
One thing I love about this place (blog) is the free-form expression and give and take. Reading through the comments of the last week, seeing the wide range of points of view – it is great. Thanks, Marty, for putting this in place and for the work you do.
Likewise if you are ever in Ann Arbor. Look up Elliott Snow. I’m on Facebook, too.
I did the Running Pgm for months, 11-12 hours a day on the Pac RPF.
Contrary to most who write recollections of it, I enjoyed it overall. I was out of the craziness of day to day stresses of active staff life, I was getting physically fit and tanned, breathing fresh (sorta) air and just being out doors for most of the day, something I hadn’t done in years. Plus the feeling that I was involved in an important pilot project.
Only bad thing really, is that I messed up a knee and it is a weak point in the body to this day. There was an advice, “if a somatic turns on, they are to keep running until it blows.” That is all fine and good if the somatic comes from the mind and not torn ligaments. I should have had an MRI or something to ensure I was not further damaging the knee. That the “somatic” persisted was the only thing that kept me from completing for probably 6 weeks or so, until I convinced myself I didn’t feel the discomfort of it anymore.
It will be hard for flag staff to deliver this to public if just for this reason.
Now that is communication – an art. Made me cry and I didn’t understand a word she said. Thx CD
Cece
He may be mentioning the Les Dane sales books. Cece
Thank you Terrilpark, I think I misread some of Cat Daddies comments. Sorry about that CD. Scientology tech (and Dianetics) really boils down to the very simple (but not always easy to do) action of directing a person’s attention (in session) towards facsimilies which the preclear can’t quite confront (and have been identified by emeter reads) listening to the answers using the formular for communication and then ending when the emeter (along with the pc’s good indicators) shows there is no more mental charge left on the subject. Done skilfully and up the grades from 0 to 1V a person experiences spiritual wellbeing that I can only describe as freedom of spirit encompassing joy, love, and recognition of one’s connection with one’s fellow man. A very comfortable place to be. Anyone criticising scientology and Ron Hubbard has never received auditing (properly done) or is willfully trying to destroy that which man has been striving fo down through the ages as seen by the attempts of religion and even psychology and psychiatry. Of course the religous philosophy base of scientology can be argued to the end of time (is and will be) but what is real is that man’s mental traumas yield to the processes of auditing and that is thanks to the genious, persistence, confront and knowledge of Ron Hubbard. It is hard for some to believe obviously but fear and cowardice and all kinds of character traits force some to protest when all they need to do is get some auditing and learn how to audit themselves. Of course there is more and if I was a better writer I would write my own book on the subject because it pains me at the ignorance shown by some people who simply haven’t even attempted to study the subject.
Damn Valkov, you got me! OK my real name is Tricksie and I love to wear black tube dresses. I have never really been a Scientologist and I live in Borneo farming edible crickets. 😉
Arthur came over to my house around 1980? or around there. I ran with the artsie save the world through Scientology crowd. It was at a party just down the street from Celebrity Center.
Dan Sherman hated me because Likki, the object of his heart, chose me, a young brash New Yorker. I started Scientology with Chick, Stanley and partied with them and Nevill Potter at the Geltman mission at 500 West End Ave in Manhattan.
I was the first artist to perform at Celebrity Center when Yvonne got the ok from Ron to start up performances again. Jim Calgar asked me to do a street performance. I took out my Gibson 335 and plugged it into my Fender Twin and got a big crowd on La Brea. We may have even gotten some sign ups that night.
My wife LIkki was a Scientology celebrity and she had the same handler that Travolta had: Spanky
For a while I hung out with all the Scientology celebs and played on some albums.
I was in Scientology for 11 years and disseminated to the point of my FSMs joining the Sea Org.
I was in the Sea Org in the late 70s at the Hotel Martinique. I was MAA and was being trained to be a flag missionaire. My pcs always had wins and I was given difficult pcs and brought them to wins.
Ok, so there, I am not Tricksie.
My reason for my posts:
Likki is only one reason. I have so many reasons. The main one is to help warn people of the dangers inherent in much of the key doctrines of this cult.
As a person interested in “holy goodness”, as if there is anything wrong with goodness or holiness, I am at war, conceptually, with any ism that claims only way status. And with Scientology the way I try to accomplish dismantling that cult mind numbing dogma is by being an iconoclast with Ron’s well marketed and fallacious PR.
I had plenty of wins in Scientology. But it is not my wins that bring me to this website that Marty has afforded all of us.
I have moved way beyond Scientology over the last 31 years. My hope for my posts is that people become willing to rethink things. That is all. Rethink, be constructively critical and to get to the root of falseness.
That is all. Find your way, find the way. But Ron was against that because he manipulated minds into thinking he was something above and beyond the common run of the mill keyed out inverted 8th dynamic wise man.
I am only sharing my perceptions and thoughts after having 11 years of Scientology and 31 years out of it and into the free space of Wogdom.
If what I say does not resonate with you as having any value, I am completely oh with that.
Then my posts are not meant for you.
As for forgiving Ron. I have done that long ago. What I am doing now is holding some feet to the fire, because things need to be confronted, beliefs need to be questioned. And spiritually dangerous world views that are harmful need to be exposed mercilessly and eradicated.
On the other hand, maybe I am Tricksie! Thanks Valkov, You always get me going.
Peace Out
B
And most importantly Valkov. I want those leaving the church to know that there are other paths out there. That there are other teachings, teachers. That the end of Scientology can be a whole new beginning of something spiritually uplifting and life affirming and charmingly wonderful.
I support all spiritual seekers, because they are all my true family.
Love,
Tricksie
L. Ron Hubbard’s DISCOVERIES did a lot of people a lot of good, BUT ONLY people that used them to better themselves and the lives of those around them. L. Ron Hubbard’s discoveries do not do the Church of Scientology much good, because that church is a business that thrives on people’s ignorance of the fact that what they are paying for is not really what LRH WROTE the he INTENDED for people to have. It is a con game. A mind game. Give a person false data and say it is from LRH instead of true data from LRH and you can make a lot of money off of these people, get FSM commissions and maybe even buy a fancy car like Debbie Cook did once with her commission from a brutal reg cycle on Italian heiress Maria Gardini. It is not what LRH says that counts, it is what LRH didn’t say that people think he says that counts to the church and makes the church its money. I ask, is that really setting people free? 🙂 This is why the Church of Scientology is a total failure. I am not saying that me or anyone like me should replace the Church of Scientology, I am merely saying it cannot be worth it for any individual to get caught up in a game like that, where your stats are only as good as the ignorance you surround yourself with that you create. That is true criminality in my opinion. Eternity is a long time. This planet alone has been here for over 35 billion years and LRH says “Despite inferences to the contrary this tech has not been avaiable before anywhere and was not even known”. End of quote. And in just short of a few decades the Church of Scientology has managed to jeopardize the future of every man, woman and child on this planet and call it a religion! 🙂 You and I are free to know how to know and the Church of Scientology is there to stop people from knowing how to know, before the people wise up to the church’s O/W’s. Well tell the Church the Scientology to take another look around. Their empty courserooms and auditing rooms should be an indication, people have already found out. 🙂 And I will no longer be there to assist that church, in this lifetime or any other with their demented goals. As a matter of fact, if they want to fight about it….. 🙂
Always Cat Daddy. The darkness always releases into the light. I love the process.
Thanks for the caring.
Very interesting summation. I love the reference to Tale of 2 Cities. To me, Hubbard was just that, the best of gurus and the worst of gurus. So much good in Scientology and so much not so good.
I was recently talking to an active SCN watcher that was never in. I told him what I now love about being declared is that I can pick and choose what I want in Scientology.
He said , so you’re like a “Cafeteria Scientologist.”
I guess I am. Awesome being out in the field as an OT VIII, Grad V auditor with no bosses.
Yes, Scientology makes slaves because the Mind is the black hole that most people fall through.
It seems that when we take human form, we automatically forfeit knowing who we are, we abandon perception of reality directly through our own energy, in favor of the body’s energetic fields. Thus we become fixed on a single viewpoint and dependent and entangled with all other forms and objects for perception.
It is in this self-induced state of not knowing, that we are easy prey to any charlatan, con and mind controller, to interpret reality for us and to guide us through our self-created energetic system.
In the old day in the East, people would caught the bug of Enlightment and go crazy trying to attain Liberation. You ended up inside monasteries, entire lifetimes spent trying to obtain a whiff of these higher spiritual states. Mystery, secrecy, obedience and isolation was the price one paid for having forgotten who one was.
In the west too, all kind of Mystery Cults arose, with similar demands for obedience and isolation, and with the same general result of abandoning your life to those cults.
LRH was fully aware about this fundamental human weakness, and took full advantage of it.
To be truthful, Hubbard also laid down in detail, step by step, a complete description of all the mechanisms that trap beings in the universe. Then he introduced them one by one, but in novel and specious forms in his Scientology.
The most potent from of entrapment, is through a gradual process of habituation, you slowly agree to abandon your control center to others, without realizing that you are doing so.
A lot has been said about if auditing is hypnotism or not. The answer is simply that auditing happens here, in this Universe, therefore it is subject to all flows and counterflows, so any assertion to what auditing does is relative.
Intention is important but not the final factor. LRH observed in the 9th ACC, that regardless of good intentions, overrunning and its resultant hypnotic state is INEVITABLE, past a certain point of auditing, simply because that is the way this universe works.
Since the entire basis for auditing is to allow a person to regain control of his universe, continuous subjection of our control center to anyone individual, will inevitably transfer the control of our mind over to those effecting the auditing, even under the best circumstances and intentions.
The entire cult that Hubbard created is based on our need of somebody else looking at our universe to help us release our accumulated track. IMHO it is the basic idea, that we are dependent on others to as-is track, which opens the door to enslavement in Scientology.
In truth we need a good helping hand at the beginning, at least for most of us it seems to be the unfortunate reality.
That is precisely why a workable system to regain control of self has to be speedy, non-secretive and personally tailored, it should be community based and universal, without any indoctrination or belief system. In short everything that Scientology is not.
But don’t blame it all on the current sociopath running the insane asylum. No, regardless of how Scientology began, it ended by LRH own instructions, as a perpetual mind control operation, as you are forever enticed to subject yourself to the control of others, and to become abjectly dependent on his Scientology maze to nowhere.
Peace.
Hope it’s better now Brian. Your story is sad in the first part but I know it’s =ly wonderful on the other end for you. Now I wonder about Likki too. I live in an 850 space campground and there are at least 50 campers at any given time otherwise homeless with some 600$ rig they need towed if they move. An interesting bunch of guys. 2 weeks ago in one evening I met a man named Guy that said he knew LRH. He said he roomed with a guy that had roomed with LRH and would only tell me his first name started with J. He told me he witnessed LRH counseling a bum for 2 or 3 weeks who went from the streets to working responsible etc. He (Guy) is a cancer healer and said he is pretty busy!
The same nite I was speaking to some one I’ve known 2 years who told me his wife was FBI staff and worked undercover in the church to get evidence for the FBI raids! So many persons have been effected by LRH for better or for worse. We were always told (while on staff) Scientology would be a ‘household’ word 😦
Well do hope you’re are feeling better.
Cece
No that was the original posters intention, But I actually listened to it to understand what is Said.
I think the concept of auditing is something that can be helpfull. And those two clips of that lecture gove me an understanding why and how it works.
Maybe I will in future. But in those clips L Ron Hubbard explaines the workings and entry point.
And It is not lost on me that I have been hypnotized every now and than in mild forms.
Or have hypnotized myself because I wanted something to be so when it wasn’t and made myself see only what strengtenth my desperate misguided belief in something.
Sorry in my mind it made sense
Marty and Mosey – what about a speech at the Clearwater FL “FLAG em Down 2014” conference for all of us SP’s next year? You can speak about: How to persist when fighting the Church of Scientology’s legal team of attorney’s and win!
Take em all the way – make David Miscavige show up in court!
David Miscavige runs the Church of Scientology and all the “TR LIE” drills in this galaxy will never convince a jury that Miscavige doesn’t run the church! Thank god we have boxes and boxes of promo that the Church of Scientology has mailed us stating that “Leader of the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige wants us to etc…”
Thanks for the reply Brian! Carry on. indeed, your message is not for me. I pretty much got it already, although were i new to these blogs the message would be valuable to me. I was “never in” but associated somewhat with scientologists back then. Having never “joined”, I have not had the experience of “getting out”, in the way many people posting here have had.
I was fed up to here wioth “ideologies” by th etime I was 12 years old. That was not part of my interest in scientology. I was interested in what applications of it could do for me, or what I could do with them. Like learning meditation, or tai chi, or whatever.
I am glad for these blogs like Marty’s, because they have made it clear to me why I may not have gone as far into it as I might have. Never was much of a “joiner”.
I was very disappointed with the way the CoS went. It was good to learn that if I wanted the practical of it, I could get it outside the CoS at less cost and most importantly, at less risk!
Yes, and that is bad why ? Are those people lying mr Hobson ?
Is this an example of “damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t”? People criticize LRH for using (“stealing”) others’ ideas and not giving those others credit – and, vice verse, he’s criticized when he recognizes the value in others’ ideas and uses them AND gives credit.
Thanks, Cece. That would make sense.
I meant that the videos, not you, “encourage a misinterpretation of auditing” because of the way they are presented. Maybe when you posted them if you had introduced them in a positive way, it would have given a different impression of your intention. Anyway, thanks for stating your actual viewpoint – and good for you on your duplication of the tapes.
Interesting phrase — Cafeteria Scientologist. I like the freedom and judgment the phrase implies, but I’m reasonably sure a “fundamentalist” Scientologist would view it negatively.
In terms of my own “cafeteria selection” of “likes” I had listed above (a partial list), I was thinking of some concepts today in relation to Obama-care.
Much of the nation has an ARC-X with Obama and his administration right now. Is it a break in affinity, reality, or communication? Viewing the situation from an ARC perspective would certainly be a different way to address partisanship, leadership, and negative emotions.
Then I was thinking also about the idea of order and disorder. In Scn terms, when you put order in on something, disorder “blows off.” If you ever cleaned out your garage or closet or what not, you know that the first thing that happens is it gets much, much messier at first. That’s disorder blowing off. With Obama-care, the attempt and intent is to create a better healthcare system for America (I do trust that is the intent). The smarter approach would have been to anticipate that there would be disorder / chaos as the new paradigm kicks in, and inoculate everyone in advance that they should expect this and have a plan to address the inevitable pushback.
There are sophisticated non-Scn models to handle such things too and they work very well — they normally fall under headings like organizational development, project management, and management of change. It’s a broadly known truism that people don’t like change, and discussion of why they don’t.
But from a Scn. perspective, the issue is not about fear of change so much as management of disorder and chaos in a way that lets new (hopefully better) order emerge.
Is Scn. (Church of,) introducing concepts like this that could be helpful for the national psyche? I don’t think so. And if they tried, they have burnt so much goodwill through their illegal, stonewalling, and bullying tactics that few in power would actually listen — when in fact, I think Scn. has interesting and useful things to say on many topics.
On many topics — but not all. Scn. would be well off to immediately archive and disavow pretty much everything Ron said about space, physics, radiation, and so on. He was a product of the times in those (and other) areas, and the times have moved on.
Thank you Cece for relating your story also. My Likki saga was 30 years ago. My life is wonderful. I love my wife. The joy in my heart is causeless. So in that regard nothing can take it away, because nothing on the outside gave it to me.
I agree, Ron affected people in many ways, good and bad. But Scientologists have a healthy dose of what is good. It is important to be balanced about it and see all sides without blowing a fuse and ruining lives.
I hope your life is good to Cece. I send you love and hugs.
The abolition of mankind’s, not only that of Scientology’s slavery, is occurring now. There is a mass awakening happening practically universally, simultaneously and of course commensurately.
I’m sorry I’ve been a bit cantankerous at times herein.
We’re within an approximately 600 to 1000 year historic time frame and its subsequent events and consequences.
I wish the best to all who manage to navigate these times.
A special prayer to those who don’t. We’ll emerge, though, collectively, in a much better condition.
Google “venetian banking collapse” for an understanding of our situation.
CD you are truly endearing and very bright! Perhaps your are in real life “The humble and loveable UnderCat”, the Dutch equivalent of our American Underdog character?
“Cat Daddy”, neither was Jesse Prince “the second most important Sea Org member” at any time whilst Ron Hubbard was still alive. Ron Hubbard himself would have been the #1 “most important” with Pat and Annie Broeker – the two people who were caring for him, looking after his personal security and handling all of his communication to the rest of the world – the #2 and #3 “most important” until he died in January 1986.
If you are attempting to portray Jesse Prince as some sort of authority on Ron Hubbard during that period, well he is not and was not. He never worked with Ron Hubbard. He was never a Watch Messenger. He was never even at the same location(s) at Ron Hubbard and never had any direct communication with him. Claims from Jesse Prince as to what Hubbard was thinking, how Hubbard felt about anyone or what orders came from Hubbard are either (a) based on communications that travelled over a line we now know to have been corrupted by David “Darth Midget” Miscavige or (b) speculations made by a person who did not actually have any personal experience with Ron Hubbard at all.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Thanks Valkov. I think I get you now. You never experienced any of this exclusive, narcissistic, elitist, magic power driven, bank account draining, SP hating, SP destroying, Hip Hip Hooray at Lebanon Hall in the blue building after Heber announces that we are destroying the SPs, the Psyches, CIA, FBI, AMA and some evil politicians in England.
You never experienced the fire in the belly as we clapped and clapped and clapped. Standing ovation after standing ovation to pictures of Ron at Heber’s Nurnberg war rallies. Those nights we vowed our allegiance to the only place in the Universe that could help people spiritually.
We would fight the devil like Obi Wan, Luke and Yoda fought Darth Veda.
An institutionalized para military. Fashioned after one man’s persecution complex.
I now understand you Valkov. You’ve only read about the good stuff. Ron the good guy. Ron the man who plagiarized but at the same time, was an original genius in his own right. With new codifications and packagings. Making some ancient concepts very modern: very athens
There in lies the mental puzzle. I contend that L. Ron Hubbard was both.
I guess you’d call me a centrist.
Congrats Valkov on keeping you self safe to see the good stuff.
Tom,
One of my favorite 4th dynamic evaluations. Here it is:
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/954_Gallagher_Venice_rig.html
no it is more of a critique on the Church itself
It has come to my attention that since 2004, the number of these States has dropped to 19. Hopefully it is an evolution.
I have noticed this too. Another form of ignorance. Meditation is dangerous for the enslaved Scientologists, because it will un-enslave them. Some people are so afraid of freedom, that they’d rather prefer to be slaves. Because that means security. Of course, it is a false security.
Would also be helpful to archive LRH’s pronouncements about Arslynchus and the like. I remember listening to a tape where he states that it was common to spend 10,000 LIFETIMES polishing the same brick there. These and many of his other whole track “revelations” never passed my bullshit meter. He of course would provide zero evidence whatsover.
I remember discussing the brick polishing thing with my really good friend who is a super kool-aid drinker and huge IAS donor (5 mill+). Basically he said if you could prove ANYTHING LRH said was BS, then EVERYTHING would become suspect. Thus, he could not afford to doubt any of it.
I love your concept of the tale of 2 gurus. I can totally have that he was uncommonly productive, discovered a ton of excellent technology, could bullshit with the best of them, and had no back-off on stretching the truth.
Speaking of slavery, nothing is a ‘right’ that someone else has to pay for at the point of an IRS service revolver. Charity is, by definition, voluntary. When the group is all and the individual is nothing, as within Scn. organizations and most govts, freedom will not be achieved.
Mark
Sheldon G.
Do you still audit. It is my opinion that many auditors are needed in the Ind. field, especially those who had the skill and wherewithal to make it through the upper levels and are now able to think freely.
Mark
Sheldon G.
I see your point about “I can totally have that he…..discovered a ton of excellent technology, could bullshit with the best of them,….”
I have discovered a couple of areas of case that apply broadly, and I have been a bit of a scoundrel in the past.
Mark
Brian.
Come now, sarcasm is beneath you, no matter how thinly veiled,
Mark
Cat, Marildi:
I think both of you realize you can learn good things from bad people. I worked in the electrical industry for 30 yrs. and picked up many valuable things from some low lites. Scn., done skillfully can get one up to being more able to evaluate data, whatever the source. Why do you think there are so many Ind. Scientologists.
Just my observation.
Mark
To me meditation is application of mindfulness.
It may be she’s returned to the UK. I live in the Burg that has Somerset house. This is the record of births deaths and marriages for the whole country. If you send me her name and married names I can check. Is
Likkie a nick name or on her birth certificate? Also contact details for her family would help and a bit of hatting.
Yes Brian. Life is good and actually I usually feel better then I ever have this life and like you said so beautifully:
“The joy in my heart is causeless. So in that regard nothing can take it away, because nothing on the outside gave it to me.”
I love how you think. Thanks for the love and hugs 🙂
Cece
Go Marty!!!!! Here in the Portland metropolitan area we have the beginnings of a small practice which will lead to a teaching group, and on. We are determined to keep the Tech. alive and expand it minus the slavery. Your words give us encouragement. Tommy is making the Tech. available. My love and gratitude go out to all in the field who are helping preserve the best of it. I was trained through Class VI with a lot of auditing experience under great C/S’s including ASHO and the GOUS. I joined Bent Corydon’s group after I was declared suppressive in 1984. I know this technology is golden. To you and your wife the BEST, Marty. If I can help with the project of freeing the slaves, please contact me. I have a free room. I am very rural. Kathy Orem 503 537 8862
________________________________
Dassie said:-
“Anyone criticising scientology and Ron Hubbard has never received auditing (properly done) or is willfully trying to destroy that which man has been striving fo down through the ages as seen by the attempts of religion and even psychology and psychiatry.”
This above sounds like CO$ propaganda. I submit you are incorrect.
I have on occasion criticized Hubbard and scientology, however I’ve primarily spent my time promoting that one does Scn in the FZ and have directly or indirectly linked thousands to auditors and FZ forums.
A better example is “Mr Clearbird
http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/index.htm
“We do not cover this Justice system. The codes seem flawed and expressing a totalitarian view.”
Mr Clearbird, Class VIII went to the lengthy trouble of rewriting the bridge to Clear. Mild re wording and proccesses are identical. This was in the context when there was much fear of CO$ suing for copyright issues.
Clearbirds material has not been successfully challenged by CO$. And there the bridge is for anyone to do.
Onr cannot copyright techniques.
I get the feeling you’re a very good auditor. You still practice?
Re: Obama above. I think it has been many breaks in reality which have lowered affinity. He needs to raise the C AFTER he has duplicated the other viewpoints.
Thanks for your words on this. I’m just thinking perhaps it would have been good to do a better study of Canada and British health care and how it’s afforded and copy the good in that.
I have never had health care coverage in my 61 years. In the 19 years of SO there was not even promised cash coverage. Now when I checked out my options my premiums will be 1$ a month! This will be a good thing for me but hurt another. I have to figure out how to handle but don’t want to face a fine of 645$ in the 3rd year if I don’t have it.
Small problem compared to escaping scientology 🙂
Cece
Haha, old cartoons are fun and produced with more care, never heared of Underdog untill now
“Basically he said if you could prove ANYTHING LRH said was BS, then EVERYTHING would become suspect.”
That is such bullshit – but it was the same bullshit Tommy Davis said to the New Yorker team when they questioned Ron’s war record. “If Ron lied about that, then he lied about everything, and therefore the whole religion is a lie!” or something to that effect. My God! How cussing stupid!
I grew up in Scientology. Scientologists were always orthogonal to the world – looked at the world from “behind the curtain.” Iconoclasts. Free-thinkers. Rational. Analytical. What the cuss happened?
Yes, I viewed Whole Track stuff as “interesting, but not essential” and subject to proof. The key to me was the technical point being made, not that any particular Whole Track story was true or false. I think it is plausible that there was an Arslykus somewhere, or Halitrobus, or Fac-1 or the Clam or the other incidents in “What to Audit,” but whatever. Ron said there were stations on Venus and Mars – I remember saying to myself “It won’t take long to know if Ron is right or wrong on this one.”
To me, auditing works, and going whole track helps. It does not matter if the whole track matches what Ron describes, and it does not matter even if the whole track incidents were made up on the part of the PC, if they ran them and it relieved them. Some of the most profound moments of my life were when I ran out whole track incidents and discovered more about myself and humankind in general than I could ever learn in other ways. I became a pacific because of running whole-track. When I read “The Illiad” I felt like I was reading my personal history – I ran incidents along these lines when I was a kid, before I had ever heard of the Illiad. I remembered the fear of standing in the front ranks, sword and shield in hand, the blood, the gore, the insanity, the futility, the pathos, and the blood lust. And I remember doing this lifetime after lifetime, first for one side, then the other -and I realized – what’s the point? Now, this could all have been fabrication on my part, and who knows? Maybe it was. But it was still profound, and I think it was true, but it does not matter – it was an amazing revelation and a major point in my life.
The point is that 95% of everything Ron said could have been bullshit (Sturgeon’s Law). But regardless, auditing works. That is the point.
Who is in jail
freaking church
Comment on Ortega’s blog,
skippress
• 18 minutes ago
Melanie Seidler, a Class 8 auditor who grew up in a $cientology family, told me about visiting with Hubbard once in the 70s when he was raising prices 10% per month. He asked her if there was anything he could do to help people she was in contact with. She replied with some trepidation that people were kind of upset about the prices going up so much. He grinned and showed her statistical charts of income on the wall. “See those stats?” he said, pointing at the charts. “I’m not changing anything!” Which explains him – driven only and always completely by greed and his own aggrandizement. About that time I wrote most of the business letters for Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles and headed the Dept. of Procurement. I used my own portable Olivetti typewriter and made a carbon copy of every letter I wrote, to put in the file we had on every person who’d ever purchased a book or service. One week I wrote 1368 letters, over 200 a day (6-day work week), and I thought well, there should be a level of achievement with ethics “conditions formulas” calculated from that. Nope, I was told, next week you have to write more. This was the insane “logic” of $cientology. Years later I discovered that Flag auditors got a special Flag Order about their “well-done auditing hours” production. A new ethics condition was added for them. Normally the top condition was Power, but for highly productive Flag auditors the condition of Control was added by Hubbard. In other words, only for those people at that place in all the universe, was there a completely separate condition of existence. This was the total insanity of L. Ron Hubbard.
What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man’s job?
If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.
Thank you for your heart felled post. Auditing is the essence of it all isn’t it.
That’s a very good summation, Brian. The rah-rah really turned me off. I have always ridged up BIGTIME when faced with that stuff. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but I have also avoided revival tent meetings, snake handling, EST and Landmark, etc etc. Not my bag.
On the other hand I really liked the Incredible String Band, which was not everyone’s cup of tea.
I think satire has its place. Like OTVIIIisGreeeeeeeat”s lampoons. I have seen “mass movements” in my time and they can be dangerous.
MarkNR….Ha Ha. What I told you about late 1970s war rally was real. I did not make this up.
The GO and Heber use to announce a special meeting in Lebanon Hall at the Blue Whale and if anything my words do not convey the intensity of the event.
We would jump up and standing O and clap and yell hip hip hooray as we looked at a huge hanging picture of Ron. Heber would talk of SPs and taking over the planet. I KID YOU NOT!!!!
Come on, I know some of you were there.
I am being literal Mark with absolutely no sarcasm. These events were a call to war with Heber as Ron’s spokesman.
Someone once said, “with Scientology, just when you thought you reached the strangest reality another reveals itself that is even weirder.
It was a Sieg Heil moment, I kid you not! We were like wolves having a howling group bonding moment. I wanted to join the B1 right then and there. I actually filled out the forms with Heber but, THANK GOD, I never followed through. Otherwise I may have been a Marty or MIke. eeeeeiiks.
Thank God for my love of music and freedom.
On the subject of Ron’s remarks about Mars, they may not have been far-fetched at all. A group of remote viewers, who had extensive and verified public track records, were “sent” to Mars. Their perceptions matched the physical data of a NASA photograph. What they described, and what matched the photo, was perceived by them to be an “artificial” (i.e. not geologically natural) structure on Mars. Some of the remote viewers even perceived inhabitants working in the structure, including perceiving thoughts and feelings of those inhabitants.
JD
You are very correct, No differentiation was made between a FRESH physical injury which should have been treated as per medical data and an actual somatic.
The Running Pgm or Cause Resurgence RD did just that, i.e. getting back to Cause and many SO members at the time were in dire need of that due to unhandled technical errors and other fuck ups.
This RD also addresses back issues as you may remember. I had some fabulous wins I’ll never forget.
At the time of doing the Running Pgm I did not know yet that I had actually fractured a vertebrae as a teenager in a diving incident. It was on
this pgm when this pain turned back on. Unfortunately I had been sent on an errant to L.A. by Sr C/S Int, Ray Mithoff, and for 3 days while doing what I had to do in L.A. I could not move or breath without atrocious pain. Then, as quickly as it had come on it vanished, for good.
It IS a highly effective pgm when done right and on one’s own determinism.
Greta
Mark, good point – and real to me personally. My only point was that it seems to me Ron is criticized both for giving credit and for not giving credit to others for what he learned from them.
Cece,
Wooowhoooo!
Do you remember me from AOLA? You were Treasury Sec, I was HGC auditor or C/S. I never forgot your story about that bear that “accompanied” you kids in the Alaskan woods. You kept him abay with
admiration!
Please get in comm with me on alexanderthegreata@yahoo.com re the $1/month healthinsurane. I also need to handle this, don’t want to pay that kind of fine.
Greta
Kathleen O:
So glad to hear about your work. There seems to be so few of us who are in that area between “The tech is absolutely perfect, you mustn’t change a letter” and “It is all evil from an evil source and should be burned, every page.” We are not so stupid that we cannot correct the errors, and the potential is great.
Mark
And Grasshopper, just so you know, I always like it when you pitch in 🙂
You seem well ’rounded’ is the only word I can think of right now.
Cece
Thanks Conan for this link. Its content, IMHO, is spot on and correct.
It fills in the history and some broad blanks.
Never before in any economic or social history I know of where the worlds reserve currency is entirely paper-based, i.e., Fiat, has created wealth or social harmony. Just the opposite.
Now is that time. We the people need currency that is not debt based or interest bearing.
Consider this: Banking and money creation should be treated as a public utility……….
Cece, I think the ACA (health plan) is a typical product of our system of government, which is based on lobbying by special interests. I think the term “special interests”may go back to Teddy Roosevelt back in 1910 or so.
Obama proposed a plan. Then Congress proceeded to do extensive alterations, throwing out anything any special interests objected to. In the end, we got what we got, and it shouldn’t even be called “Obamacare” because it really isn’t the plan he proposed. I think the nickname is an attempt to shift the “responsibilty” (blame) away from those who were most instrumental in altering his plan to suit their own needs, onto him. It is probably an improvement over what existed before.
Go Kathy!
Nice to hear this. I love Portland.
Who is Tommy?
What happened with Doc and Lenny Roland and their mom Kay?
Cece
PS I was married to Mark Benedict till he left the SO. I kinda know where he is. What about Chris Rodriquiz? – maybe I should just start a topic on esmb (im new at this). Hugs and thank you for keeping on and knowing there is some gold in those fields.
Cece (Benedict 71-75)
Thanks for the url TP. Incredibly just after posting that reply I read a post with a post from David Mayo in it. In it he described Ron sending staff to the anchor hold. So now I’m in two minds about criticism of Ron as I know David and I know he was Ron’s auditor for some time. I don’t like to think of Ron behaving in the way DM described, I even found myself trying to think why he felt such actions were necessary. I still cannot believe his actions were of evil intent. But I have come to accept that Ron changed from when I was on course at St Hill in 1963/64. I never saw him again so anything I think has to be guesswork. But I do have some experiences of the effect the sea org has had on level V orgs which are very negative and have turned me against present day scientology.
No, I’m a very poor class V1 auditor and I have not been able to confront auditing anyone since I left St Hill in 1964.
You sound like you know a lot about sci and auditing. Good on you.
GH – I agree with you, for sure. LRH even said in Science of Survival that running imaginary incidents could be valuable. I’ve run many whole track incidents that I wouldn’t bet were true, but felt great relief. To me, auditing works like the bomb. LRH is like the mad scientist. Also, he was very thorough, did an enormous amount of research developing correction lists. The best of gurus, the worst of gurus.
Yes, I do, though not full time yet. Was very recently declared – Aug, 2013. So am working on getting back into it. Was last a full time auditor in 2006-2007 at Tampa Org.
I still contend that OT7 & OT8 are about the coolest services ever. I’ve always been a tech guy (am a computer programmer in real life). So, seeing a persistent f/n or floating TA is still a big thrill.
Now that I’m declared, am having a great time back on solo auditing.
BTW – I can be reached through my secure email, fridsatu@gmail.com
Marty,
OT – I went to check on an article you posted on Wed Mar 6 2013 titled:
The Reformation in Action. I could not find it in the archives but the printed e-mail alert copy is sitting right in here. “?!?”
I had put it in my pending basket to follow-up. I checked the following days posts but no mention of it.
Can you say what happened or refer me to the follow-up post? Or should I cut down on my meds and leave my pending basket till next Friday 🙂
Thank you
Cece
PS It’s about the supposed survey to all scientologist from the Volunteer Ministers Network
My deepest appreciation for your commitment to liberty.
Tom,
Absolutely. But I like to use this data, educationally, in a non cultish way,
as there is a tendency from the extreme right and Christian Fundamentalists to go bat shit crazy on this.
By the way are you related to Mr. Paul B.Gallagher?
What do you mean by critizised for giving credit to ? even the crediting of others dissapeared from book 1 in his own lifetime. And he started ridiculling people he learned from wich isn’t bad but he hid the fact that he learned from them. Pavlov Freud Jesus, oh and that 1 psychologybook he red before writing dianetics. yes a PSYCHOLOGY BOOK
I suspect that was by Carl Rogers a full fletched PSYCHIATRIST. because he was credited in book 1 when it debuted.
I beg to differ, one doesn’t give somebody a semi automatic rifle with a banana clip gun and a 45 as a present. Jesse got things done for Hubbard at some point in time.
Sheldon, if you have done OT 7 & 8, would you mind saying what it is you are solo auditing? Just curious. I know someone who did through OT VII and after that worked out her own processes based on ARC breaks and missed withtholds, and she has apparently made huge gains in whole track recall and OT abilities.
I remember reading that you could tell the difference between real and imaginary incidents by the way they ran (I could probably find the reference). So since you are also an auditor, what would you say about this aspect?
Thanks, CD. Yes it is. At the end of the day, real Scientology is one person sitting with another with the intention of helping them out. Auditing is just structured talking. No drugs, no surgery, very little physical contact (Objectives are an exception).
All the rest is surplussage. SO members and staff went through hell (and unfortunately caused their share of hell), basically, to allow auditing to happen. Even “Snow White” was done with the purpose of finding out why the US was trying to ban or disrupt Scientology. The FDA raid targeted auditing – they confiscated meters and training materials, not financial records, remember. Ron went over the top – but it was no joke that Scientology was targeted by some pretty powerful governments. But, at the end of the day, what governments were trying to ban was one person asking another “Recall a time when you were happy” or “Recall a time that was really real to you.”
Thus the irony of the Church of Scientology as it exists now: They are no longer there to ensure auditing happens. So, it needs to go away.
Brilliant quote. Where did you get it, or is it yours?
Mark
You never know. What I am sure of is that in the vastness of the universe, there has to be more than one planet with life on it.
Yes, he did, and he was down on auditors who invalidated these recalls when they encountered them.
Think about the auditor’s code. What a piece of excellence. I know of nothing like it anywhere else. Do not invalidate the PC. Do not evaluate for the PC. The whole point of auditing is to straighten out the track and as-is the mental mass associated with past incidents. Again, to HELP the preclear. Telling them they are full of shit if they present a past-life incident surely is not helping the preclear. Helping them sort it out IS helping the preclear.
Just do it. Don’t worry if it “hurts another.” It won’t.
Brian
Thx for the insight. I worked with the IAS doing tornado cleanup a few years ago. It was very satisfying but I got tired of stopping what I was doing for photo ops. I was disappointed with the organizational skills of the IAS people. It was better than just walking up and saying “need a hand”, but not as good as the Red Cross or several churches which organized help projects. But the breakfast rallies got us very hyped up. A valuable skill when used wisely and competently, but leaves one with a loss when not followed up with good direction and accomplishment. I ended up taking a small team out, finding what was needed and wanted from actual people and getting it done. I became known as the ‘Sawmaster’ after clamoring up fallen trees, cutting 12in. limbs and dragging them to the road with my 4×4. After 4 days I only saw one instance of someone being counseled on their grief and loss and there were 2 professional auditors with us, one a briefing course grad.
Mark
Well, the devil is in the details. First it was 5% per month, not 10%. When someone gets a basic thing like that wrong, it puts a pall on the whole thing. Second, yes indeed the stats were very high on income for the first few months after this – but then it went flat, and then down. ASHO Day made $1 Million per year back in 1976 (the stats were on the wall). ASHO Day made less than that in 1981, 82, which was in the thick of the 5% per month time. There was a case to be made that the prices needed to rise a bit. After all, I bought all my levels for around $1,250, and OT III cost $800. An intensive (12 1/2 hours of auditing) was $625. So, Ron may have been smiling in early ’77 but the steam dropped out fast.
To me, the most destructive thing that happened in Scientology was the 5% per month fiasco. If it had just been done for a few months, all would have been well – but it went on for YEARS.
And re Power and the ever-increasing stats. Yes, that was something Ron never defined until later. The reason I was so down on “Ethics” is that Ron had very little material or research on them. The Ethics conditions are defined and outlined in less than 10 P/Ls and HCOBs and one or two tapes, and the conditions were never fully fleshed out – hence “Power” being updated in the ’80s to take into account that you can only lay so many bricks in a day, or you can only audit at most 24 hours a day (which would never be done).
Even “All accidents are caused by PTSness” – i.e. connection to a Suppressive Person – was modified by Ron to take into account someone who was so keyed out she lost track of where her body was an hit a wall or something. In other words, Ron would write some things in absolute terms – and expect people studying it to apply the truth that there are no absolutes.
The only way to study Scientology effectively is to study it with a critical eye and apply judgement. Ron was down on people “altering the tech” by interpreting it and explaining it to others (“Verbal Data”) and yet the only way to understand it is to interpret it yourself and work with it to uncover the core.
I’m on a roll!
But, if people who are on staff (SO, especially) are NEVER allowed to actually do courses and understand what Scientology is, and apply it, they will A. apply what little they do know rotely and without judgement or discernment (because they are told to do that) and B. start to hate it because Scientology applied rotely and without judgement is not Scientology at all.
Example: “If you are sick, you are PTS.” Ok – on a VERY BROAD basis, that can be true. By very broad I mean, you are in a body on this planet that is covered with pathogens and thus you are vulnerable and PTS to the world to that degree. So, that has to be taken into account (and Ron means this, by the way) but it never was. However, IF you are in the presence of someone who TRULY is actively working against you, you can get broken down enough to get physically ill – and discovering this situation does result in relief, especially if you handle it properly.
But, handle it wrong – someone is sick who is then HOUNDED to “FIND THE SP” and then having all potentials rejected – THAT is not Scientology even though you could read it that way if you read it without judgement or discernment.
I am not being semantic here. I am saying that studying Scientology and understanding it takes work. I was on the levels (Class 0-4) for months and the Briefing Course (Classes 5 and 6) for five years. It was not a waste of time, and it did take that long to understand the core of it. Which is why I get pissed at people who did not put the time in telling ME that it is bullshit. I know better. But I also know why people can get it wrong. And screw Miscavige for allowing roteness to become what people think is “Scientology.”
Valkov, Brian:
Well said.
Mark
Marildi:
Ron could be a bit of a scoundrel at times. My past is also a little checkered.
Dassie:
The time is now to clean that ashtray, rekindle that failed purpose. The Ind. field needs you now more than ever. There are several excellent places you could go to brush up on your skills and find your major stop. It could be a VERY rewarding endeavor foy you and yours.
Mark
Oh boy CD! You smpke djust before you posted (again), didn’t you?
Carl Rogers was most definitely NOT a PSYCHIATRIST. NOT a PSYCHIATRIST. Carl Rodgers was a very independent and creative PSYCHOLOGIST. PSYCHOLOGIST… NOT A PSYCHIATRIST.
There is a world of difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rogers
The entrypoint that takes you out of “presentime”. Not a critique but two words in Scientology come from hypnotism. “present time”, and Implant”
The hypnotist will say at one point “come back to present time”or a variant of that. But purge the implant he put in or not. Wheter it is on purpose to help a person stop smoking for instance or with evil intent. Mostly hypnotist will say before taking a person back to “present time” : UYou will remember nothing. Listening to the clips of the lecture. Ron’s dealings with Crowley and the story of Ron’s publicer about somebody showing a room of people the imaginary kangaroo that was on or in his hand, Ron had a vast understanding and was skilled in that practise. Hypnotist always had a better practical understanding of the “unconscious” mind, Science went the therethical way only to end up at a theory about the mind that worked that discovered what hypnotists knew instinctively worked.
“Recall a time when you were happy” or “Recall a time that was really real to you.”
Grasshopper, great post! To me you’ve brought out a crucial point about the tech – which is that it needs to be understood as a whole. A lot of the criticism (completely leaving aside criticisms of admin tech) doesn’t take into account that later research resolved the points being criticized. You gave a good example where you noted that Power came out at some later point and accounted for the fact that only so many bricks can be laid in a day.
Another example is the datum about all illness being a PTS condition. A bulletin came out after that describing “false PTSness,” where the person appears to be PTS but is actually the effect of things like out-ethics or lacking data about life (or one of a few other things). With false PTSness, the ill person may have been antagonizing someone (who responded in an apparently “suppressive” way), or the ill person may simply have been out-TRs and messed things up. These are examples of lacking basics in life, i.e. the basics of communication.
Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of where the tech appears to be faulty (at least per what I know of it) has to do with the OT levels that are evaluative. But I can’t help but think that if LRH had lived longer he would have revised those too, after further research. That’s why I am in favor of others continuing the research where he left off but not lose the huge body of workable tech that was developed.
LAWRENCE !!!!!!1
It almost slipped by me, You got that frpom L Ron ?
“This planet alone has been here for over 35 billion years”
Ron the Historian/Scientist MY ASS~!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
“The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 109 years ± 1%).[1][2][3] This age is based on evidence from radiometric age dating of meteorite material and is consistent with the ages of the oldest-known terrestrial and lunar samples. Following the scientific revolution and the development of radiometric age dating, measurements of lead in uranium-rich minerals showed that some were in excess of a billion years old.[4]
The oldest such minerals analyzed to date – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – are at least 4.404 billion years old.[5][6][7] Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to those of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Calcium-aluminium-rich inclusions – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites that are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old,[8][9] giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of Earth.
It is hypothesised that the accretion of Earth began soon after the formation of the Ca-Al-rich inclusions and the meteorites. Because the exact amount of time this accretion process took is not yet known, and the predictions from different accretion models range from a few millions up to about 100 million years, the exact age of Earth is difficult to determine. It is also difficult to determine the exact age of the oldest rocks on Earth, exposed at the surface, as they are aggregates of minerals of possibly different ages.”
CD, where you wrote that books “are welcomed when it comes to making money,” it seemed that you were criticizing LRH for openly recommending Les Dane’s book. But hey, this turned into a bigger issue than I meant it to!
Btw, besides DMSMH, LRH gave a lot of credit to many other thinkers throughout history, in the early editions of books such as *Science of Survival* and *Scientology 8-8008*, two that I know of. However, you are right that his giving credit dropped out in later years. And he obviously turned against psychiatrists – but that was after THEY initiated a huge campaign to bring down Dianetics and Scientology.
Not that I would defend LRH in many of the things that he did – not at all. However, I’m not that interested in focusing a lot on his personal flaws (even though those may be quite rightly criticized) as opposed to pointing out the harmful policies. But the most important thing to FOCUS on, IMO, is the tech. LRH isn’t the only one who discovered that we create reality according to what we put our attention on and agree to with other beings.
Right, Mark. In fact, he could be more than “a bit” of a scoundrel. And I’m not against pointing this out to some extent, because that kind of thing is an aspect of truth too. But as I inferred in my comment to Cat Daddy, just above, I think Ron was right when he said that we get what we put our attention on – in other words, we strengthen what we “validate” by putting attention on it. His idea was to put the “Accent on Ability,” (as per Dn 55) and I think that datum applies in a general way. Other philosophers too have pointed out that beings or “consciousness,” or however they word it, is what creates our universal reality.
“Scientology Inc encourages wives to snitch on husbands and vice versa. Parents snitch on their children, Children report on their parents. *ALL* in the culture report any disaffection on negative remark to the hierarchy for discipline. The wives would not have been told about the beatings ~~ there are severe repercussions always. Thought Police do not permit one to voice anything negative. especially about management or Miscavige”
I think that is correct, Marildi, but I don’t recall the reference. I do recall that the concept was that as more and more “charge” came off, perceptions and recollections could become more accurate. I think most modern psychologists would agree with that too — at least that’s my sense.
Yes, Grasshopper! The auditor’s code is an awesome piece of work. I adhered to without exception. I would still never, ever reveal anything a PC shared with me in session.
And from the PC point of view, almost without exception, I adored every auditor I ever had. They did an awesome job helping me sort some things out. With one caveat: there are some things that the “wog” world actually understands better than Scientology about human development, dominance, and other matters.
For any readers who are not familiar with the auditor’s code, it can be found at http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology/the-scientology-creeds-and-codes/the-auditors-code.html. It is worth a read.
Thanks Grasshopper. Interesting video & thanks for sharing. The remote viewers answered a question that was percolating in my brain. If there were such a station on Mars, who would want to work there? Godawful assignment. The remote viewers seemed to come up with non-alien life, stranded and despondent crew. Hmm.
On the other hand, if Ron had Mars right, how could he have had Venus so wrong? He saw his freight train “the other day” at a time when humans were fantasizing about Venus being the most likely place for life in our solar system — a planet wet, verdant, and perpetually fog covered.
What would have been impressive would have been if Ron said, “I was on Venus the other day. Contrary to popular belief, it is a molten hell with a sulfuric acid atmosphere, possibly as the result of a millions of years long runaway greenhouse effect.” THEN he would have gotten some attention.
I agree completely that it would make no sense to throw out everything because one thing is flawed. At the same time, known inaccuracies do naturally make it important to check other claims more carefully.
For me, I can’t just accept that auditing works, therefore all is well. Why does it work? Why does conversion to a religion (Islam, Christianity, etc.) work to alleviate internal conflict? Why does joining any number of cults, each with conflicting claims on truth, “work” in the sense of making their adherents feel better?
I do agree that Scientology “works” — both as an auditor and a PC. But my inquiring, skeptical mind wants to know why — to know what the underlying truth of it all is. Otherwise, the world is a shouting match of all the philosophies and religions that claim THEY work (with plenty of anecdotal evidence) and the others are wrong.
BTW, I had what may be experience similar to yours. Whether it was from a Jungian collective consciousness, some sort of holographic universe, my imagination, some sort of enhanced empathetic experience, or actual memory, I vividly experienced some Holocaust events with tremendous emotion. That experience did change me (for the better!).
In that sense, I agree with you. However the effect works, if it is positive — and if we do not assume it is true, absolute recollection but possibly some other factor at work — that may be a good thing regardless of the underlying dynamics.
A brother is Paul Anthony.
Aside from the crazy’s, a whole lot of folks don’t rely on the bible to understand natural laws, including weights and measures and PM ratios.
DM Is not a Sea Org member, not a staff member, not a public person and not a non-Scientologist, although he professes to each of these groups one way or another that he is. He is an individual that managed get his own signature on the copyright owner documents for all of LRH’s tech, making him and any such incorporated body under him “the official owner’s” of LRH tech. Bully for them true, but bad call in a way. What is all of Mankind doing sitting parked here on this planet other than waiting for this tech to arrive and not know it yet! If a person cannot get their questions answered at a Church of Scientology, that person will go elsewhere to get it answered. The Church of Scientology is still not in the business they are licensed to be in since 1954 when the church first opened. Can the Church of Scientology really afford to say there is no public or no market for their product? Recently a new mission opened (in 2011) in Elizabeth, New Jersey (an 85% Hispanic city of about 102,000 people) to replace the mission there that went out of business in 2005. That is a 6 year gap, so the church has decided to approach the matter this time with a “Latino flair” because the new mission holder is Hispanic. The place is already doomed but Elizabeth, New Jersey (the city I was born in) is the home of L. Ron Hubbard’s FIRST ever Dianetics Research Foundation that went out of business too for what LRH claims is about the same reason the last 2 missions in this area closed without warning. No public! 🙂 If there is no public to go up the Bridge, it means the Org or Mission making the announcement has HUGE O/W’s. 🙂
I’d say the key is personal evaluation. Ron as a being is complex and hard to evaluate, and much relevant data would not be known. As Marty and others and~ I~ point out he has trashed other philosophers and seekers of spiritual goals even if he once quoted them as his sources.
He did spend 30 odd years refining his “Tech” ,”Psychotherapy” or
whatever label you prefer. This is what he will be remembered for. This
is his jewel in the crown. Goes way beyond solving rudimentary
life difficulties to increasing ability.
You were on the experimental briefing course. I know several who were.
Was lucky to twin on TRs with Nicky Mendosa. Who you may have met.
Hope you are still in UK and we could meet. 🙂
Hope I could send you wherever you are someone to audit.
love …….
Marildi:
You and I align on many things. The time is just right for further research. There are already several OT repair auditors (Marty included) who handle stalls better than the church. The messed up cases generously supplied from the church could finance the operation.
IF NOT US, THEN WHO. IF NOT NOW, THEN WHEN.
Mark
Thanks, FOTF2012. Right you are. I found a reference for that in *Handbook for Preclears*. And I wouldn’t doubt what you say – that modern psychologists have discovered this too. That gives it all the more credibility. Actually, it’s amazing how many things LRH discovered decades ago that are being discovered – or maybe I should say verified – by researchers in various fields, from biology to paranormal phenomena. Anyway, here’s the HFP reference on telling the difference between real and imaginary incidents:
“There are those who know nothing of the mind and yet who get amply paid for it who will talk wisely about illusion and delusion. There happen to be exact and precise laws to delusion. An imaginary incident follows certain patterns. An actual incident is entirely unmistakable. There is a standard behavior in a facsimile of an actual experience: It behaves in a certain way; the individual gets the efforts and perceptions with clarity and the content of the incident expands and remains fairly constant on several recountings. An imaginary incident contracts in content ordinarily and the individual seeks to keep up his interest then by embroidering it. Further, it has no constant efforts in it. Those who cannot take time to establish the actuality of facsimiles before becoming wise about ‘delusion’ are themselves possibly quite delusory people.”
I coudn’t answer you above, so let me do it here. I didn’t got from Ron! 🙂 🙂 🙂 I was trying to remember something my science teacher said in school, because I don’t do much research into the age of this and other universes, but I didn’t got it from Ron! 🙂 And I didn’t say I did! 🙂 I think you know what it meant! 🙂 I meant the Earth is real old, maybe my science teacher was wrong, or maybe I heard it wrong because I used to sleep a lot in school! 🙂 You know what I meant! 🙂 I meant old like billions of years compared to how long it took for the C of S to screw up the universe along with them! 🙂 My apologies of course for being off by 31.5 billion years! 🙂
The other thing that doesn’t add up about the viewpoint that incidents given to the pc on the OT levels aren’t real is that it seems to me it would invalidate what we know about the meter with regard to instant reads and TA motion – as well as the fact that, per my understanding, sensitivity supposedly changes with individuals as they go up those levels and is an indicator of less overall charge on the case. How could all this be a matter of “mocking up” incidents?
There would also be the consequences of misownership if an incident is run which isn’t the pc’s – which may in fact be what is occurring for those who don’t do well on OT III, for example.
MarkNR: “The messed up cases generously supplied from the church could finance the operation.”
Ha! Love how you put that. And when the CoS goes bust there’s bound to be a lot more of it. Many purposes will be rekindled. I think Ron was right about truth:
“Now, all disturbance and chaos folds up in the teeth of truth…Don’t ever try to stop truth. That’s the only thing that can go through sixteen-inch armor plate.” (SHSBC, “Scientology Zero” 10.12.63)
My BAD, fully acknowledge my bad, I goofed the floof on that one royally.
Trying to ammend my bad
Carl Rogers’s counselling session with Gloria is a third of a training film titled Three Approaches to Psychotherapy (1965). The other two sessions were with Fritz Perls (Gestalt), and Albert Ellis (Rational Emotive).
Carl R Rogers; Frederick S Perls; Albert Ellis; Everett L Shostrom; Psychological & Educational Films
Even though the session was short it seemed to have a life long effect on Gloria who later wrote:
‘Something happened in those few short minutes which has stayed
with me ever since. He simply helped me to recognize my own
potential–my value as a human being. All the words couldn’t
possibly express the importance of that for me.’
(Dolliver, Williams, & Gold, 1980, p. 141)
Interesting further reading could include Googling:
* Transcripts of Carl Rogers’ Therapy Sessions – Edited by Barbara T. Brodley and Germain Lietaer
* Living with ‘The Gloria Films’: A Daughter’s Memory
Thanks TP. Unfortunately I live on the other side of the world. Live on a govt pension. Am working on something which could earn me some money. I would like to get back to the UK. We will comm some more on this blog I’m sure. Yes, the rehab of my earlier goal :to be the best auditor in the world” set in 1962 would be something spectacular.
Marty – could you answer me? Ya think 🙂
Cece
you will trust a guy ,who keeps pushing a wrong button…?
I mess up thing too like the Carl Rogers thing just now, A operson can’t know or remember everything. That would make you an OT
I agree, Mark. It bothered me that course and auditing fees suddenly had to be called “donations” (way back when). It felt like a lie. It was a lie.
It would be like going to the Church of Subaru and deciding I want that new Outback. Oh, and yes. I will donate $25,000 to the Church of Subaru — totally voluntary, tax deductible to me, non-taxable to the Church of Subaru exchange.
Speaking of exchange, does the Church of Scientology not realize how tremendously “out exchange” it is when paying staff next to nothing, yet demanding the staff pay full freight if they leave via a “freeloader” bill. What the heck kind of “freeloader” works 100 hour weeks?
(For readers who may not know the Scientologese on the concept, it is related to “flows” — inflow or what is coming into you should be balanced with outflow that is going from you to someone/something else, and in a general sense what you receive should be commensurate with what you take. Thus theft is not only an overt, it is “out exchange” — the person took something without outflowing a commensurate value. LRH took these concepts to quite a theoretical extreme. For example, he stated that if someone were shot, they actually would not be hurt if they could immediately “outflow” a bullet — then the flows and exchange would balance out. I’d trust that about as far as I would the magic shirts in the Native American Ghost Dance.)
Back to the falsehood of mandatory donations for tax purposes. One would think the road to truth cannot be paved with lies, but apparently it can be paved with money.
Marildi
I meant actually doing something, NOW.
Hi – Just more OT7. I finished OT7&8 10 years ago. Nothing other than what I was trained on.
Hi Dassie, Thanks for your comments. You actually write quite well. I love to hear wins from the tech from whenever they occurred and encourage people who were involved early on to comment. It is quite informative to the rest of us. I am hoping ( and I am optimistic) that where we are going with all this is toward more truth. I think the basic truth that “the truth will set you free” is the correct path. Those of us who have left the Church are all now free to LOOK. Which is what LRH wanted and Buddha for that matter. We are now free to COMMUNICATE which is what LRH wanted and was a key point in the forming of America for that matter. We are free to reject the work of any teacher, leader etc.. that we find unworkable or harmful. We, can use the tech of “Integrity” by LRH. Or this quote by Buddha “Accept my words only when you have examined them for yourselves; do not accept them simply because of the reverence you have for me. Those who only have faith in me and affection for me will not find the final freedom. But those who have faith in the truth and are determined on the path, they will find awakening.”
Obviously thousands and thousands of people still find the tech workable and find many of the actions of Miscavige unworkable, harmful and out of touch with reality.
I love the fact that we are free to study the work of LRH and the work of others. We can study Buddha the Tao and even read the wisdom that may come from a Psychotherapist. We are free to differentiate which is Sanity according to LRH. In this place of openness and freedom we can also see the incredible workability of the tech. And Ron’s work can be integrated into the world. I think Marty has been saddened by the fact that Ron’s work is not included in the work of the great scientists and thinkers of our time because of the horrible PR caused by the Church’s own actions. By communicating the truth, he is helping the world to be free TO LOOK at the workability of Scientology and how it can help.
I recently got in comm with my non Scientologist parents about what has been going on and how I am an Independent Scientologist now. I discussed everything, disconnection, the “buildings” etc… The increase in ARC was huge. They have reality on how a Miscavige can happen in any religion. They even had a leader in their religion have an obsession with Buildings! I can feel how this could open the door for people to Look at Scientology with ARC.
I do understand that wins from the tech itself are not part of the conversation here often. (Although, Marty’s PCs have written about wins here) I think that is because of the topics being discussed and people want to stay on topic. But, people are free to put their auditing/training wins into comments if they want. And there are other sites, facebook pages, Auditor Blogs etc.. where wins from Auditing/training are posted. I agree that wins being communicated is very important too.
LOL
I guess he’s an “absent-minded professor.”
Let us know when you can *document* that Jesse Prince had any personal contact and/or direct communication whatsoever with Ron Hubbard during the period Hubbard was in “exile” (so to speak) between Jan 1980 and his death in Jan 1986. There is no mention of any such in any of the affidavits Jesse Prince filed in various court cases. Neither has Jesse Prince made that claim on his own blog that I have ever seen (perhaps I missed it?).
As per those affidavits, Jesse Prince was not recruited to RTC until September 1982. According to his own personal accounts, he was recruited into the Sea Org in 1976 in PAC, on the RPF for 18 months, reprieved and assigned to the PAC Co-Audit Org and otherwise served in PAC Base on Tech lines until he went to Gilman Hot Springs (Gold Base) in Sept. 1982. At that point in time, Ron Hubbard had been travelling with Pat and Annie Broeker in his Bluebird land yacht for a couple of years and was never again anywhere near Gold Base. Jesse was never at Winter HQ (La Quinta) whilst Hubbard was there, either.
Carrying out orders purportedly from Hubbard relayed through a compromised communication channel (controlled by a person now known to have been conspiring to take over control of the Scientology organizational hierarchy at the time) over long distance comm lines may or may not constitute “getting things done for Hubbard”, but does not even remotely qualify Jesse Prince as any sort of authority on Ron Hubbard, Hubbard’s thought processes or Hubbard’s personal opinion or feelings about any given person.
Michael A. Hobson
Tom Cruise and Disconnection
November 9, 2013 By Mike Rinder
http://www.mikerindersblog.org/tom-cruise-and-disconnection/#comment-22948
I LOVE when you are on a roll Grasshopper!
Cece
Or not – that’s OK!!
Okay, thanks much. It’s interesting how varied the viewpoints are about OT 7. I haven’t done it but have a friend who feels at cause over the “phenomena” addressed at that level and thus doesn’t feel the need to continue auditing on it. On the other hand, more or less at the other end of the spectrum is the viewpoint that even if the OT VII isn’t himself at effect, by continuing to search and handle s/he is basically auditing the 7th dynamic (putting it in my own words).
Mark, I do get that.
Is your purpose to organize tech-trained individuals who are interested in doing research and/or are already doing it? And if so, have you been able to hook up with any of them? One that I know of who has been working on improving the tech is David St, Lawrence. Dexter Gelfand too, I think. Geir Isene also says that he’s been doing research, but he isn’t actually a trained auditor, other than a solo auditor (OT 8).
Thank you, one who sees. I appreciate the comment.
Marty hope you and Mosey are warm and comfy.
Thanks for all you have done for me. And I can now do for others.
I’ve had mice for a while now. I keep cleaning up after them but I’m at my wits end. I don’t want to kill them. I blew a fuse today. I am going to train them,
They are pretty cleaver – look they took a wood spoon from the kitchen to here: [picture will not paste in here]
Maybe I can teach them about stats.
I hope you are well.
Cece
I think in time Marty and Mike will answer that one for me when David Miscavige is down
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[Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun – please reply to this comment with a correction, if I am mistaken regarding the below]
“Cat Daddy”, so you finally admit you can produce no documentation to support the notion that Jesse Prince ever had any sort of personal relationship or direct communication with Ron Hubbard *ever*. The Anons always say “Dox or GTFO”, so you ought to know better.
According to all the information about their Sea Org history Mike Rinder and Mark “Marty” Rathbun have detailed, during the time period between Jesse Prince’s arrival at Gold Base in September 1982 until Ron Hubbard died in January 1986, neither one of them were in the chain of command between Ron Hubbard and Jesse Prince. According to that same information, neither were on the lines of communication between Ron Hubbard in exile and Gold Base, either.
So, “Cat Daddy”, you have exactly *nothing* to show Jesse Prince ever had any sort personal relationship with Ron Hubbard.
Not true.
Well, yes, but in the case of Straightwire (which is “recall a time”) the pre clear is instructed to stay in present time rather than “return” to the past time. And in the case of Dianetic auditing, there is no “implant” – the Auditor is not implanting commands like “you will feel no pain” or “you have no desire to smoke” but rather, the person is asked to re-experience the incident – which, by the way, is a technique used by Psychologists in treating PTSD.
FOTF – Yes. In fact, I know that people cannot audit without having some idea of the reasons it works. Why does “Book and Bottle” get some people to exteriorize? To duplicate people better? Why even run Op Pro by 8c at all? What good is it? Why does running straight wire end up with people feeling better? Why does getting withholds pulled and addressed standardly (not in the SO “I am not auditing you” accusatory manner) result in relief – what are the mechanics behind this? I mean, I know, because I am trained and actually did it. But doing Op Pro by Dup or 8c or doing any auditing without knowing what the hell you are going for can certainly cause trouble.
The RIDIDI (Read it, drill it, do it) training “methodology” of staff and SO RPF is crazy. Sure some things are mechanical, but things like running Ruds are a Class III action and there is a reason people get trained to do this stuff. Doing it Rote can result in some gains, but all you have to do is see the poor ex-SO bastards who spent virtually their entire career as a Scientologist taking the subject on faith, and no wonder we are where we are.
One thing that is sorely lacking in the church and the subject is truly understanding how the body really affects us. Things like dyslexia, the effects of strokes. The effects of drugs and alcohol from a body perspective. The effects of stress on the BODY (not the soul). There is a lot of knowledge here that can be very effective in helping people. If a person is freaking out because they took too much speed, they are going to continue to freak out no matter how much auditing you give them, until they stop. Assists and auditing can help once the person is OFF the drug, and perhaps can help with the adverse effects of the drug, but the person will still freak out for a while because the body is what is doing it, not the being. For example.
Interesting what you say about conversions and other religions. One thing that shocked the hell out of me is that prayer works. I would never have accepted this while “in.” At least not in the manner that the prayer itself works. I do not really know why it works, exactly. I just know that it does. It comes down to who or what is God? I know (now) that God exists, I just do not know in what form or manner. That is a whole research project, so to speak – and it interests me greatly, and it is a serious gap in the technology of Scientology. We all know Ron was down on the concept of God, 8th dynamic or not 8th dynamic.
The Freeloader debt and the entire concept – and the concept that leaving the SO is a suppressive act – it something that ALWAYS pissed me off, and in fact made despise the SO as a concept (not as people, necessarily) since 1976. Sure, there were some who took advantage of being on staff… back in the ’60s! But, to apply it with zero judgement is insane, and is a form of slavery. I mean, I knew that signing the SO contract meant signing over your whole existence to the Sea Org. I knew that. Apparently there were others who thought signing a Billion year contract was a lark and did not mean what it said.
Thanks Cece 🙂
Crap, I just made up some “Tech” that explains David Miscavige condition
My advice is to read everything about Jesse Prince, Watch every affedavit and read every interview and account of him and not ask Marty or Mike again before Miscavige “has retired”
nuff said
Well thanks for the response. Which statement(s) is/are not true, please ?
FOTF:
I see what you mean. Funny thing about exchange, it doesn’t have to be exact. It doesn’t even have to return to the same source. Just follow the general (agreed upon) rule of the greatest good……. My Mother doesn’t expect me to pay her back. That’s understood. As long as it is not considered an overt and you don’t consider yourself out-exchange, there are no worries. When everyone is producing more than they consume, a natural state for a Thetan, the need for exchange simply disappears. It’s a secondary consideration anyway. When a 2D relationship is fresh and high toned, each side is often competing to do more for the other than is done for him/her. Life is more fun that way.
At the higher tones, all the rules and ‘the way things work’ such as exchange, karma, balance, even the dynamics and ethics, simply disappear as the secondary considerations that they are.
I recall once that a friend killed my body in combat, actual body that I owned. We had a good laugh and went back at it, improving our skills with each win and loss. It was all in fun.
Mark
Marildi:
We could gather names and e-mail addresses of those who want to do something really worthwhile. The Learning Center and the Dror Center could also be of help. I have heard of several OT 7s and 8s who are auditing on their own who would soar with a little skilled and high ARC assistance. In a group environ., many common and uncommon denominators could be discovered. Even reports from those who want to continue on their own would be very valuable. The Sea Org did us a service by showing us many of the pitfalls.
I have nothing better to do really.
Mark
Have you considered having a blog or website as a center of information and discussion of this topic? It would be an alternative to the sites the “fundamentalists” have. You could start out by directly inviting participation from all those you already know of who have similar purposes. In a word – networking.