There have been published reports that seventeen lawyers have appeared in the Comal County courtroom on the Scientology side of the aisle in the case of Monique Rathbun vs. David Miscavige, et al. In fact, twenty-two lawyers have made official appearances and/or physical appearances in the case for Scientology Inc.
Many of those lawyers have made multiple flights to Comal County from New York, Los Angeles, Washington D.C., or driven from Dallas, Austin and San Antonio to attend hearings on behalf of Miscavige and his co-defendants.
For some perspective consider these facts:
- The Scientology lawyer roster was roughly half of that for the nine-year, $30,000,000+ Lisa McPherson litigation. That litigation involved upwards of a half dozen lawsuits. David Miscavige on many occasions lamented that McPherson constituted the greatest public relations disaster in Scientology’s history (including that created by 11 top Scientology officials being jailed for conducting the largest domestic espionage campaign in history against the United States government). Principal lawyers in the McPherson matter are visibly directing the big name lawyers recruited by Scientology Inc. to front in Rathbun vs. Miscavige.
- The Rathbun v. Miscavige Scientology lawyer roster is about double that employed to deal with United States v Hubbard (the aforementioned government espionage case). That litigation involved at least a dozen lawsuits. Principal lawyers in the U.S. v Hubbard matter are visibly directing the big name lawyers recruited by Scientology Inc. to front in Rathbun vs. Miscavige.
- Scientology and Miscavige employed roughly half the number of lawyers he has so far in Rathbun v Miscavige during the take down by over-litigation and intimidation against the largest and most feared agency of the United States government, the Internal Revenue Service. That matter included more than twenty-two hundred lawsuits. Principal lawyers in the Scientology Inc. v IRS matter are visibly directing the big name lawyers recruited by Scientology Inc. to front in Rathbun vs. Miscavige.
I have come to learn through life experience that oftentimes the magnitude of force one musters to intimidate and overwhelm can serve as a fairly accurate measuring stick of the degree of the organizer’s cowardice.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Pingback: Monique Rathbun vs. David Miscavige by the numbers | Martyrathbun09's Blog
Totally agreed, Marty! It’s amazing that CSI was thrown under the bus to make sure DM was not deposed though that didn’t work, as that is another measure of same said C word.
Bwah-hah-hah-hah! “The Organizer” of this display of force is scared s..tless. A total coward who is terrified at the idea of confronting his accuser, the gentle-spirited but amazingly brave Monique Rathbun. Thank you for pointing this out.
He also under estimates the intelligence and street-smarts of Ray Jeffery and his brilliant legal team as well as a judge with a Texas drawl. One would think he learned his lesson in San Antonio against Debbie Cook but I guess there is limit to hubris.
He is afraid to speak for himself at any Scientology event. Everything is scripted for him. He is totally and disgracefully (as a Scientologist) afraid to talk to the public about anything. The Pope of this religion is a coward with no redeeming qualities.
I meant NO limit to hubris.
CatDaddy, that was exactly the tune that came to my mind as I read this. Great response!
My love to you, no ML no theta no Ack no Arc, but just my love to you
This is the song that describes my being/spirit/Thetan/Psyche
Very Very good information Marty.
This is where parishioner extorted money goes….
Marty and Mosey I bow my head dopwn to you two. Unwated you two have become heroes against your own will and comfort.
The lawyers are pouring out of the floodgates like cheap whores(no offence ment to prostitutes YOU ladies are after all In exchange)
For me indicates that He naming and using all these lawyers is TERRIFIED; IS ABSOLUTE TERROR what leads hiring such a number of law members…wonder why? Because his crimes are about to be revealed… heaven forbids.
Oh yeah, David will pull out the checkbook and spend spend spend to secure “religious rights” to dabble in domestic terrorism! This is an IMPORTANT investment for the Church! This is something that MUST BE DONE on his importance check list! This is money he could have distributed to staff for some dental care! For health care! As rewards for decades of volunteer service! Instead he will spend it to secure rights to dabble in domestic terrorism!
An unattainable goal.
Any chance of getting a list of the 22 members of the Captain David Miscavige Posse of lawyers? The names I know already are:
George H Spencer
Wallace Pope
Monique Yingling
Jonathon H Hull
Bert Diexler
J Iris Gibson
Ricardo Cedillo
A Paul Dunagan
Les Strieber
Kendrick Moxon
Lamont Jefferson
Eric Lieberman
Michael J Herzog
Gary Soter
Wallace Jefferson
Stephanie Bascon
. . . that’s 16 so, obviously, I am missing half a dozen or so. Its just that someone I know is working on a shoop and it would be fun to include as many as possible. Assistance with a spell-check on the names would also be appreciated..
(I know, I know, I could trawl through all the legal documents looking for names of those who have been served but . . . if you have the informaton handy . . . just askin’)
My money is on Ray-J!!!!!!
Marty
Wow! Interesting data.
You guys should try for the Guinness book of world records.
For Miscavige this seems to have gotten incredibly serious. And over what, Mosey just asking to be left alone to live her life without his interference?
And it is not even anywhere near the actual case itself yet.
Is he actually going to go “all in” with a hand containing nothing but lies, bluffs, and bluster?
This is a “monkey trap” at its best.
Eric
And he is up against someone who knows all his “tells”.
22 high paid lawers against sweet Monique and Sugar Ray. Hardly seems fair, maybe they should hire another dozen.
These 22 lawyers are all partners in their firms, they do not do not take orders, they give orders, and they each believe they are in charge. This is a big problem. LaMont Jefferson forgot he wasn’t in charge when he objected to something that involves the church, forgetting that his client, David Miscavige, not only alleges he has no power over the church, but is only in court under a special appearance because he claims he and the RTC (Jefferson’s other client) have never done any business in Texas. This operating at cross purposes is only going to get worse. These are not lawyers who have made their reputation by lying, but they are being made to look foolish by their clients who keep changing their stories. Thus, these lawyers, by parroting conflicting stories, appear to be desperately trying to prevent information from coming out. One week, the lawyers claim Miscavige doesn’t know who Marty is, the next week the lawyers argue it’s a long-standing vendetta by Marty against Miscavige, then it’s a religious dispute between the church and Marty, or the church is simply defending its copyright, and so on and so on. Incredibly, despite the existence of a police report that he filed stating that the RTC had done business in Texas, one of Miscavige’s henchman with a straight face, insisted that the RTC had never done business in Texas. And, the RTC’s lawyer let him. Accordingly, these lawyers, by parroting the confused and conflicting stories hurled at them week after week, and allowing perjury, have now put Miscavige in the position they were all brought in to prevent: Miscavige WILL be deposed, probably before the judge, because Judge Waldrip is smart enough to know when a bunch of lawyers are being lied to by their clients.
Google, “The Church of Scientology denies”.
About 378,000 results (0.29 seconds)
DM is making a great case of David versus Goliath. 22 lawyers versus Ray Jeffery. Come on! This will not be lost on the judge. Let him bring on 22 more; who cares. Go for it Dave. Every lawyer added shows just how afraid DM is. The judge has to be wondering what he’s so afraid of. Delicious.
Another thing. Remember the old adage “too many cooks spoil the pot”. With this many lawyers on the case there will be mistakes. You can count on that.
I guess it will take more than COB and 22 lawyers to defeat Mosey.
Wise financial management is not a strong point in this organization and yet no one demands to know where their hard earned dollars go lest they be kicked out. Insanity!
Up the moral ante ’til he folds.
“I have come to learn through life experience that oftentimes the magnitude of force one musters to intimidate and overwhelm can serve as a fairly accurate measuring stick of the degree of the organizer’s cowardice.”
When you want to level a mighty oak it takes a lot of termites.
Common sense(!) says when the tree is harder than oak, ya gotta keep adding termites.
I agree Marty.
It is just sickening to me how in this country and many others too, that you can buy the “justice” that you want. I hope and pray that somehow it isn’t as bad as it looks. I mean, so far it has looked good for your wife but when you look at the above that you posted it looks pretty bleak.
Let’s hope that there is still some true justice available in the USA.
Well thank you for putting this in proper perspective Marty.
I never wanted to sue the church until Saturday my dear brother showed up in LA (from Sitka Alaska) for a visit and told me that while I was in the SO the church had contacted my dad and told him “lay off Cece”. How evil. Disconnection via a back door. I had no idea. My father was very supportive of me and my life choices. Now I understand why he would not let me care for him his last 3 months of life. While visiting him in the hospital he told me “Your work is important. I would rather you stay and continue.”
Thing is, I was on the RPF at the time and would have gone to be with him and not had a second thought about asking permission. I would have left a note and gone to be with him even though I was 6mos pregnant.
What if we all opened up law suits against the church and let ’em have some of their own medicine. You know spread ’em thin. Overwhelm them for a change. I’m having a hard time ‘letting this go’.
BTW this data was not in my ethics file I was allowed to view per policy.
Cowardly *and* suppressive if you cannot fight back. Also, will they not try to make the case go on *forever*? Tying you up in legal disrupts your basic intent. Mind you if you get DM in the witness stand you have a big win. Good luck Marty and Monique.
David Miscavige is himself one of the greatest public relations disasters in Scientology’s history. He is blind to this fact.
The Miscavige PR Disaster is made even more embarrassing by the fact that he is employing 22 lawyers in a desperate attempt to shield him from the consequences of his own extraordinarily stupid and violent actions.
Marty, do you think that Miscavige’s lawyers have become an “echo chamber” for Miscavige, this per your description of Lenske, Lenske, and Heller in your book in Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior?
🙂
Very true Marty. I also believe Captain Miscavige’s guilt is direct proportion to the number of lawyers he has hired (at parishoner’s great expense unknowingly) to hide his crimes!!
If anyone can take him down once and for all – it is Monique Rathbun supported by the truth!
Thank you for everything you have done.
You, Mike Rinder, Karen, J. Swift, and many others – Thank you!!
To all of the ex-Sea Org staff who came out and are “doing something about it” – you are hero’s to me! All of the public that have come out too!!
It takes courage to confront the beast called Scientology – and you all have displayed tremendous courage. Your persistence to expose Scientology for what it really is – is just amazing!! Strong, defiant, relentless!! The real deal!!
This is spiritual freedom!! Freedom to be yourself!!
David Miscavige has maaaaany crimes and transgressions that he does not want to either admit nor lie about under oath.
If is admits the truth, he looks bad.
If he lies, he had better make sure his lying isn’t exposed or that will make him look worse.
So, his best bet is to do everything he can upfront to avoid being put in that situation, and that is exactly what he is doing.
Marty, expect a multi-million dollar settlement offer at some point. You will find yourself in a position of having to choose between riches for you and your loved ones or taking this dangerous sociopath to court.
The degree of complexity is proportional to the degree of non-confront. I think something like that was in one of the first Scientology courses I endeavored upon. Funny that “the pope” would not know that.
This judge though, it looks to me like his confronting is pretty good.
Miscavige is BLOWING THROUGH the generous donations of those still in the Church of Scientology in order to protect HIMSELF. While parishioners are being regged to death, he turns around and uses those second mortgages and maxed-out credit cards in an attempt to SAVE HIMSELF. And from what?
From having to tell the TRUTH. Once in his lifetime.
It’s shocking that he has no oversight, no advisers, no one on the “board” of which he is supposedly Chair, who can say “David, cut this shit out. Stop wasting money and stop flushing the name of Scientology even further down the toilet than you already have and STOP FIGHTING THE DEPOSITION. Because it makes us look bad. And it makes you look guilty (of something).”
How many of those lawyers are there simply to try and stop David Miscavige from being deposed? Half of them? Or is it really ALL of them?
He is the Pope of a religion that loves the words CONFRONT, and HANDLE, yet he, supposedly a “big being” (that’s a joke in itself), the figurehead of a religion that harps on about COMMUNICATION ad nauseam, can do NONE of those three. Isn’t that pathetic?
Imagine a Pope (the real one this time) who does not have the ability to communicate with everyone? From world leaders to beggars, infants to the elderly, as well as those who have lost their faith or lost their way…. That’s right, you can’t. Because you can’t be a Pope without those basic human characteristics.
Turning to Miscavige, there is no confront. There is absolutely no handling. And there can be definitely no communication. Because while he might be able to get away with his lies, malice and cruelty in the bubble that is the present day Church of Scientology, even his dumb ass knows that inside a courtroom it will be much harder to lie and get away with it. He knows that he will be caught.
When will the Church of Scientology say enough is enough, and there’s no more money for your personal defense? Can the CoS do that? And if they don’t, surely it is clear evidence that David Miscavige is the top dog in the mafia-like organization, and that all decisions eventually come down to him?
Fuck bullies. They all crumble. Team Rathbun all the way.
Very interesting data – these comparisons are indeed telling, as is your conclusion. I would add that the amount of evident cowardice is also directly proportional to the degree of terror. A fascinating example of the missed withhold. And how! All strength to all of you.
You hear that? Giant temper tantrum coming out of Clearwater.
When David Miscavige digs himself a hole, it sure is big.
Marty and Monique you got the truth on your side and that is always a true comfort!
Too many cooks are gonna spoil…
Judge Waldrip has shown himself to be a canny player and not to be intimidated. I also wonder as the case continues to go further south for Dave’s cult how many of these “top dog” lawyers will be prepared to put their careers in the line as the truth continues to trickle (or flood) out. How many of them will be prepared to have their names forever associated with defending an out-of-control sociopath wreaking havoc on the lives of decent people. They will have to weigh up: is the big fat pay check today worth a legacy of being known as the lawyer who acted for a venomous and sinister cult. Sure will be interesting. I don’t believe the American justice system ultimately is any more flawed than any other – it does seem strange to Europeans to see over a dozen lawyers in one small courtroom though.
I hear the train a comin’
It’s rollin’ ’round the bend
And I ain’t seen the sunshine
Since, I don’t know when
I’m stuck in Folsom Prison
And time keeps draggin’ on
But that train keeps a-rollin’
On down to San Antone…
Incredible information. All comments here so far are so spot on!!
All this litigation force displayed and used is not to be taken lightly in no way. It is a powerful force. But on dealing with it, what comes to my mind is the principle and highly skilful system used in top quality martial arts fighting, where one USES and directs the enemy force, however great, against him.
Just a thought. Good luck!!!
Hemi
Some major DM flopsweat going on. Hey wasn’t the depo supposed to happen today? News, news???
“What your fees buy” indeed. Scientologists bankrupted to finance this oppression. The degeneration of “religion.”
If nothing else, it is a fair indication of how seriously Miscavige takes this lawsuit.
Marty — your blog has been a beacon of hope for those who lost hope.
When you surfaced after rumors of death …and surfaced not timidly but loudly wit a blog initially exposing the abuses of dm … hope was born again.
Hope that ONE day dm’s reign would be over. And for some, hope that the tech would not be lost but could resurface as LRH once intended.
At some point the debate shifted from WHAT was LRH’s original intent, DID it work etc … but seriously to me that doesn’t matter much.
What matters is that there is HOPE for the thousands who have left scientology, who have been scarred by its practices WITH or WITHOUT dm … or who are still IN and unable to voice their opinions because of family, business etc.
And for those who are now part of a growing “indie” field who continue to practice their religion. Or the others who no longer consider themselves part of scientology but realize that their job now is to continue to deconstruct what they once learned and move forward.
Thanks for continuing to be a beacon of hope … and a man unwilling to give up on this evolving journey of life …
Christine
I imagine Pope Slappy is in terror of having his photograph taken during the deposition wearing a court-ordered straight jacket.
The overall big picture, certainly is interesting.
Keep baiting him Marty. He doesn’t possess any self control. One day soon…. his tiny, little head is going to explode from the top of his tiny, little body.
Oh my, Oh my. Twenty two lawyers?
Well, Captain Miscavige is showing us how a brave officer he is by leading from behind, deep, deep, back from a curtain of attorneys.
David, a coward is as a coward does.
Yeah, Scientology likes to do that.
OSA called my 83 year old father repeatedly and told him that I was a “criminal on the run from the law” when I had moved back to help him after my mother had died after a long bout with alzheimer’s. He was mentally feeble by that time and headed for a financial train wreck.
They did everything they could to “dead agent” me to my own father. And it worked, as they knew it would. I had gotten both my mother and father involved in Scientology, (big mistake) and they had received auditing. So Scientology went through his folders and got his “buttons” to use in their attempt to destroy my family because I dared to speak my mind about them on the Internet.
They weren’t able to destroy my whole family. My sister and brother in law told them to go to hell when they tried to threaten each of them with declare for remaining connected to me.
But I am sure that they took a win on my dad, though.
Because that is the real Scientology.
And this is why Monique’s legal action, directed right at the heart of their ability to apply L Ron Hubbard’s policies on Fair Game, is so important.
At the end of this legal action, I hope to see David Miscavige in jail and the ability of the Church of Scientology to fair game anyone ever again completely dismantled.
I know I’m a dreamer.
But I’m not the only one.
Thank you, Monique.
And thank you, Marty.
You have my full support.
Allen “Alanzo” Stanfield
The smart move for Miscavige would have been (and still is) to write Mosey a check for whatever she’s asking and close the case, but he can’t do it because he compulsively has to win, and to be right. So, he will spend more than that amount in legal fees and in the end he will go down in flames, will still have pay Mosey, and will be further exposed to the world as the incompetent psychopath that he is.
History is littered with despotic psychopaths who came to an ugly end, but little Davey, being an uneducated buffoon and ignorant of history, will add his name to the list while Mosey joins the ranks of heroes.
All those lawyers=fear.
The more lawyers they have, the more society will despise them.
Because the force they are using to go against two citizens who are being abused is bad optics for the church.
The more force they use, the more resentment from the world community.
This is a PR disaster no matter the outcome.
Dave, remember Saddam and Kaddafi?
They had infinitely more power than you.
At some point the cards get stacked against you.
And your capacity to hide behind money and power gets breached.
When the ramparts of wealth and power crumble.
The piper comes a knockin for payback.
And the payback is coming.
All those broken families and brutalized staff.
Remember Ron at the end?
Hiding and crazy?
How did his money and power help him then?
It is only a matter of time.
The one missing number here is the estimated hourly cost for all this. 30,000.00 an hour? 50,000.00 an hour?
It HAS to be cutting into the scotch and gourmet food budget. Oh wait, that’s not DM’s money either.
Karen, speaking of extorted money. I received an e-mail this morning with Nancy Many (your good friend) as the sender, saying that her and her family were mugged in Prague and needed money to get home. I hope this is not off topic, but do you know anything about this?
Life will put you in line no matter how hard you think you can keep winning with an ego….Doesn’t matter if you have an army of lawyers or soldiers.
There is nothing that can stop the evolution of truth and who we really are.
Agreed, that would be valuable information. It has “shock and awe” value when dropped in casual conversation with true believers.
Must be hard for so many lawyers to get their story straight, they are exposing each others falsehoods.
Well, count on about 899 to1000 bucks an hour, 10000 a day including expenses per lawyer. And these are no small cookies these lawyers, these are at the top of the pecking order of hens. So even if they are working a 3 day week, 22 x 10000 x 3 = £660000.00. That’s probably about all of CSI Int Management’s budget for the week. Oh, well, no Int Management newsletters, no Sea Org pay, and definitely no film budget for that week! But that’s no skin off Davey’s nose….he still takes his pound of flesh no matter what happens!
Nicely said, Hemi.
Texas ironwood, it’s called.
I received a similar e-mail from a family member a while back. If it didn’t sound like her style at all and strangely provided neither real specifics nor showed that she had acted logically, but was asking for your credit card details or a Western Union wire transfer ($100-500) so she/they could “catch a flieght” or “contact the embassy”, then probably her account was hacked. You can ask at ESMB, though.
I prefer “Scientology abuse”
2,460,000 results (0.46 seconds)
Most likely it is a scam and the e-mail got hacked! Some time ago I got a similar e-mail asking for money from a person who was “robbed in Spain”. The e-mail was very fishy, and I knew that this person was in the US (also one letter from the e-mail was changed and linked to click on and to redirect).
should be: e-mail ADDRESS
Let me add that I don’t see any price tags hanging off of Mosey or Marty. Dollars are a non-existent motivation for them. They are driven by necessity but also for all the right reasons. There is so much more at stake here than mere money. And if they end up with less financial pressure at the end of the day, good for them. Because they have and are undergoing a challenge on which few others would be willing or able to take their place.
The e-mail specifically said that she and her family were mugged in Prague, they still had their passports, but the Police and the U.S. Embassy were not being very helpful and for the recipient to reply to the e-mail for instructions on where to send the money. It comes from an AOL address. Just to clarify things. 🙂
Quite possibly a hacker hoax.
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/stranded-scam.shtml
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/05/beware-hackers-take-over-gmail-account
You said it! On the money Honey!
David pumps them full of false information and when they get in there they contradict one another. One of them even objected for another one! David doesn’t care, as long as each and every one of them is set up for a BIG LOSS! Even if they are there to defend him! HE is is own worst enemy.
So, is this your only objection to making that 10 million dollar donation to the new “L.R.H. Hall” so you can be upgraded in status to a “Noble Member”?
I want everyone who perjured them self made to answer and not allowed to pay their way out. This is a separate crime. I want to see how many of David’s “loyal officers” he will throw under the bus behind the Church of Scientology. Because he thinks, “Power is getting people to listen to you.”
The newest status bridge for staff.
“Noble member”
Someone who did time in prison for the boss.
“Member of distinction”
Someone who lied on sworn affidavits.
“Member of Elite Honor”
Anyone who perjured them self in court.
“Member with Honor”
Anyone who went on the Lam on their own dime.
“Master Member”
Anyone who beats and tortures other staff on command.
“Founding Member”
Anyone that initiates a new P.R. flap that bring David new fame.
“Key Member”
Anyone who successfully kept staff on lock down.
“Elite Member”
Anyone who used their “senior power” to harm attack and suppress others.
“Member”
Runs with the herd as a “believer” and manifests total compliance without having to know anything at all.
“Guarantor”
Demonstrates shameless and unique begging skills to cover the legal bills.
“Benefactor”
Sacrifices a child to “the cause”.
“Friend”
Succumbs utterly to the presence of a C.M.O. D.M. personal loyal officer, on the scene. Even if they have not delivered a message from Hubbard in several decades.
Thanks for spotting and itemizing the contradictions that have emerged so far!
That is a good point, because a lot of the type of e-mails you describe “normally” come from the deposed Prime Minister of Nigeria or Mrs. William Brandt (wife of deceased multi-billionaire William Brandt) right? Hardly any come from “Nancy Many” or “Amy Scobee”. I have to laugh as I write this, because what a thing for someone to do, is to forge an SOS e-mail from Nancy Many. Obviously someone that knows a lot of people’s private e-mail addresses. In the meantime, let really give our support to Marty & Mosey, our courtroom heroes against the Church of Scientology! 🙂
“Tom Cruise is nuts”
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“Tom Cruise is really nuts”
320,980,000 results (0.48 seconds)
Nicely said… I agree
Lawrence – same style and text (“embassy not very helpful…”).It is a scam. Don’t fall for it.
anonindie
No. Jan 29 was the date Monique wanted to depose Miscavige, but his lawers have managed to get him out of it for the moment. There was no new date set for the deposition of Miscavige, by last accounts.
However… From Tony Ortega…
“Next big dates in Monique’s case: By January 27, Scientology is supposed to have turned over evidence required for Monique’s anti-SLAPP response. Then on February 3 and 4, she’ll present her argument, and Waldrip will need to make a decision about that motion.”
Eric S
Barrister
For actual data, check out Monique Rathbun’s original suit against Miscavige and various church entities on Tony Ortega’s blog, “The Underground Bunker”.
http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/21/monique-rathbun-files-suit-against-scientology-over-harassment/
Eric S
You are both a threat! You, simply because you’re you and have this blog which has amassed a lot of power (!) (as Dave’s is diminishing) and Mosey because she’s another powerhouse and is with you-plus she is indestructible!
Mosey’s has more integrity than most Scientologist I’ve known (in 37 years) and on top of that she is beautiful (in & out), smart, articulate, and didn’t cave despite DM’s sick attacks.
I am proud to be your friend! And, if you need anything, I am here for you!!!
PS Squirm, Davey, Squirm!!!
Love, Midge
And Sylvia, it is about time too, because a lot of people that do not even belong to the church are just about reaching their limits as hosts when it comes to extending continuing hospitality to a unethical guy that covers up the crimes of his make believe church. People have come a long way Sylvia since the reactive mind was first dreamed up! 🙂 It would be a sad day for some, but not all, if L. Ron Hubbard were alive and well, and it turned out that he not DM wound up in the situation that DM did. Even LRH had a little more brains in his than that, to never be caught authoring the tech one is corrupting. 🙂
If I could do it for 7 million, and still get that “Noble Member” status, I might reconsider.
Just one question, though. And this might be a deal-breaker:
When DM goes to prison, I still get to keep my “Noble Member” status, right?
Alanzo
Sharp comment, Shannon.
🙂
San Antone = San Antonio
Marty, I like to follow the comments but for some reason the “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” function isn’t working on this thread, and I’ve tried it a couple of times already. No email to confirm gets sent to me. I don’t know if anyone else is having this problem or not.
+1
Alanzo, Thank you for telling that. Why in the world was scientology even the least bit interested in your 83year old father?
I’ve heard of this happening after one leaves.
What I was saying is that someone in scientology did this to my dad while I was very in the church working my ass off. I have never heard of this happening before and of course over the last 3 years I have read a lot of stories.
I’m just trying to figure out why – what was the imagined threat?
Hemi, I’m trying to think of possible examples of using and directing the enemy force. All I can think of is an anonymous phone call leaving messages with the law offices the court date has changed and then perhaps they don’t show up one day.
Marildi, I believe there is a way to use your WordPress account to see your own comments and responses. Its under the menu ‘Reader’. Maybe this will work for you.
Nice!
Thanks for the ARC! 🙂 I knew it was a hoax, because first of all did Nancy Many really go to Prague and second does the author of this e-mail mean to convince the world that Embassies and Police Departments overseas are unfriendly to former church members and will not even let them call their own bank or relatives! 🙂 Wow. Things are really taking an interesting series of turns this week. 🙂
What your donations buy…
Wow
Thanks for the update!
There’s an old Texas saying: “There’s a paddle for every ass.”
Excerpt from Scientology leader David Miscavige speech given at a New Year’s IAS event in 2000. Mirrored September 2013.
http://rutube.ru/video/f374899114da2ebfe269cfaac4cda226/?ref=logo
I believe the big secret is that DM c/s’d Lisa.
Cece –
In your case, I believe there are LRH SO issues, as well as HCOPLs, describing defenses against outside influences and “other fish to fry”. It could be that talking to your father was eliminating counter- and other-intentions from the environment – which as you know is the basis of all ethics in Scientology.
I guess the thing to find out is when these “handlings” were done on your father and what you were working on. Was there mail he sent you that was censored which triggered this handling? etc.
In my father’s case, per LRH, I was to be tricked, lied to, or destroyed by any means possible. They knew from my earliest pc folders that my main ruin in my life was my dysfunctional family, and that I had originally gotten involved in Scientology to use its tools to improve the relationship I had with my father, and thus heal my family.
So – once I began writing about my experiences as a critic of Scientology on the Internet, I was Fair Game, and they knew from my pc folders that my family was the “button” they needed to threaten or destroy in order to “shudder me into silence”, per very specific LRH tech and policy.
13 years later, still writing and discussing Scientology on the Internet, I am here to attest:
It did not work.
Alanzo
To me, that the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court resigned on a Friday and ended up in court working for David Miscavige on Monday morning, along with this panic of attorneys, is a very good reason for lots of media scrutiny of this case.
The amount of money being spent by the Church of Scientology alone to defend itself is a great reason for a large media story.
This is Anderson Cooper/Nightline/60 Minutes stuff.
Why, exactly, did the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court resign on a Friday and start working for David Miscavige on Monday morning?
I’d love to see Anderson Cooper or Scott Pelly sit down with all the parties involved and dig into this mystery of lawerly behavior.
That’s one way all this effort can be used.
Alanzo
Happy , Healthy and rich is better than miserable sick and poor.
Just trying to be funny but nevertherless I wish Mosey and Marty the best of everything.
My kid is waiting for the deposition of the “big man” as proof that his declared parents might be right…
there is so much hope riding on this , so many positive postulates , it is my opinion that all the forces of the kingdom cannot stop the ultimate conclusion.
22 lawyers is indeed suspicious and reckless.
Amazing how these highly paid and “respected ” professionals can sound childish.
Alanzo, I think anyone who volunteered years of their life to ANY Church and to help their fellow man, is a noble member of the human race. We are ALL noble members.
And I don’t need to pay 10 million to hear David Miscavige say it.
Not only is Monique in a David and Goliath situation, but the fact that David has hired a legal team larger than O.J. Simpson, pushed forward upon the judge in an attempt to overwhelm, confuse, bully and intimidate him, has actually put the Judge on the same page with Monique.
It’s a scam. Disregard and change your email password.
Greta
LOL re Guinness Book of Records!
This whole court case is missing DMs withholds BIG TIME.
It probably isn’t so much what he did or didn’t do to Monique
but ALL ELSE he did, which has not been revealed yet.
Greta
What’s the saying?
“Too many cooks spoil the broth”
We’ll happily let them flounder along with their contradictions….
Greta
+100!
Let’s keep digging….there’s a Sherman Tank somewhere!
Greta
That’s a pretty good educated guess.
And just to spell it out again in a new unit of time for any newcomers: MisC/Sing by someone -David Miscavige- who dropped out of his Class IV auditor Internship for slapping a pc in session, who has never done a C/Sing course in his life.
That is quite a few High Crimes all in one!
Greta
That’s the one! “embassy not very helpful” Thanks! I wonder if Nancy Many even knows anything about this? 🙂
Cece, thanks for the help flow.
PURRRRRFECT
Google Wallace Jefferson. He said he was resigning for financial reasons. The pay he received as Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court was insufficient for his lifestyle including supporting kids in college. I guess when his brother said we’ve got the cofs on the line and there will be many thousands if not millions in fees, it was an opportunity too good to pass up and he resigned.
Very nicely said, Christine.
Most people who retain an attorney usually do with one or two per case, a general council and or a specially representative based on the severity or number of crimes. That said with just the shear numbers on dastardly Dave to me is showing how much muck he has clinging to him. Like body thetans who need to let loose Dave needs to shed a few for the PR that is grossly indicating his overts. Dave do your self a favor and come “clean” and move on without everybody else’s MEST. Bill Dupree
1) Sociopaths Lack a Conscience
Sociopaths know the intellectual difference between right and wrong. They understand society’s expectations. They understand what moral behavior is supposed to look like. They even understand that actions have consequences. The problem is, they do not care. They do not feel remorse or guilt. They have no inner compass to guide them, and so they do exactly what they want at any given moment. This lack of conscience means that it does not matter to them if they trample on the rights, feelings, or safety of others. It means that they have no limits and are therefore capable of anything; it is a recipe for endless cruelty and depravity.
2) Sociopaths Feel a Limited Range of Human Emotions
Sociopaths are emotionally crippled. They feel anger, rage, and envy in full force, which fuels aggressive behavior in many of them. But the rest of their emotions are shallow and fleeting. Because of this disability, sociopaths are unable to truly connect with other people. They are unable to have real empathy for others, because they cannot relate to emotional pain. And, most ominously, they are unable to love. This emotional defect also means that they must spend their entire lives watching others and learning to imitate behaviors that they are unable to engage in naturally; in this way, they become demented chameleons. They are pathetic and empty, and this makes them chronically bored. The boredom is almost painful for them, and they will do anything to alleviate it. This contributes to their tendency to act impulsively and recklessly. And ultimately, they will do anything and everything to get rid of their boredom because, having no conscience and no empathy, they do not care who gets hurt in the process.
3) Sociopaths View Everything in Life—Including Relationships—As Games to be Won
Sociopaths have an insatiable need to win. This desire to win is so strong that they sometimes will take themselves down in the process of becoming the “winner.” Because they are unable to build real relationships, they view their interactions with others as games. Other people are simply pawns to be played. And because they have no conscience, they make up their own unethical rules for those “games.” They use tactics like mirroring, deception, projection, gaslighting, pity plays, and other forms of emotional and physical abuse to idealize, manipulate, confuse, and intimidate others, all in the name of “winning.”
4) Sociopaths Live to Exploit Others
The ultimate purpose of every sociopath’s life is to do whatever it takes to get what he or she wants at that moment. Since they do not understand love, they view other people as objects to be obtained, used, and then discarded. And so in all their interactions with others, they follow a particular pattern—idealize, devalue, and discard—over and over and over again. They are constantly scoping out potential targets and assessing them as sources of supply; they might want money, a place to live, sex, a cloak of normalcy, or a short-term thrill. They often throw people away suddenly and brutally, ignore them for days, months, or even years, and then contact them again as if no time has passed and all is well. Their desires change unexpectedly and abruptly, and nothing stops them from pursuing those desires in any way they can.
5) Sociopaths Believe they are Superior Beings
Sociopaths see nothing wrong with using people and then throwing them away. They feel completely justified in lying, cheating, stealing, and manipulating others. In fact, not only do they see nothing wrong with their behavior, they actually believe that they are incredibly superior to other people! Every time they are able to con their targets, they view that as evidence of the targets’ weakness. And, they do not suffer from low self-esteem or insecurities (although they often pretend to “feel” that way in order to manipulate others). On the contrary, they are egotistical and arrogant. And this makes it impossible for them to benefit from therapy, and it makes it impossible for them to change. Why should they change, when they believe they are already better than everyone else? This, I believe, is the main reason why there is no cure for sociopathy.
(source -https://www.psychopathfree.com/content.php?278-Understanding-How-Sociopaths-Think-Why-It-is-Good-to-Ask-Why)
On top of everything else, this is truly a colossal waste of Church funds. There is nothing 22 lawyers on this case are going to be able to do that 10 lawyers couldn’t. Ultimately this will lead to the joke: “How many lawyers does it take to keep David Miscavige from having to testify under oath?” Answer: “More than 22.”
Well Yvonne –
It’s a free country. And no one can blame a man for trying to feed his family.
So that means we need about 5 more Monique Rathbuns in 5 more states, so David Miscavige can hire 5 more Chief Justices off the bench to add to his growing panic of attorneys, and to drain his resources 5 times faster.
There has to be someone else with standing in California, Florida, Illinois, New York and Massachusetts.
This is what “the IAS war chest” was always for – to make lawyers rich when the tide began to turn on the Church of Scientology.
Let every Chief Justice, Judge, and Law Firm in America know: THERE IS BLOOD IN THE WATER and MONEY TO BE MADE litigating both for and against the Church of Scientology!
And I think the RICO Act might be a great way for the US Government to get in on some of that cash in the form of fines and property seizures, too.
Take note US government – you better get going before it’s ALL GONE!
Alanzo
That is better than hauling rocks, Did you folks know L Ron Hubbard put a child LIKE this in a chain locker for wanting a flute ?
Note: I am not saying that each new Monique, and especially the original one, would be doing this for the cash. They would definitely be doing it for the justice.
But they would be using our justice system exactly as it exists to get that justice done.
Alanzo
Laughter! I don’t think 22 is going to do it.
I don’t think that judge in Texas is going to be bullied or intimidated by the attorney circus David has created.
David isn’t so good at math.
The judge has the entire U.S. Government justice department behind him.
David, and all of his attorneys are at the mercy of that.
If David thinks because he was able to negotiate an offer and compromise with the I.R.S., he can bully a judge in Texas, his A=A is leading him into a hall of mirrors.
Texas isn’t Washington. And that judge isn’t a tax collector. And this isn’t debt negotiation.
This is about David Miscavige PERSONALLY engaging in domestic abuse and domestic terrorism. Against a WOMAN. In Texas. AGAIN. (Remember Debbie Cook)
All of these attorneys he has sent in there, is just HIS way of bending the judge’s finger back.
Good luck with that Dave!
Yes! Isn’t that bizarre behavior on DM’s part? He has a team of 17+ attorney’s and all he is being asked for is a statement! 🙂 I guess he didn’t do nothin’ wrong! RIght? 🙂
(“He Didn’t Like Cats”)”
― L. Ron Hubbard
I dissagree with L ron Hubbard that women can get oer rape very easingly
Other old Texas sayings:
He knows more ways to take your money than a roomful of lawyers.
So crooked that if he swallowed a nail he’d spit up a corkscrew.
So crooked you can’t tell from his tracks if he’s coming or going.
Crooked as a dog’s hind leg.
Crooked as the Brazos.
Slicker than a slop jar.
More twists than a pretzel factory.
Crooked as a barrel of fish hooks.
So crooked he has to unscrew his britches at night.
He’s more slippery than a pocketful of pudding.
He’s slicker than a boiled onion.
I wouldn’t trust him any farther than I can throw him.
He can strut sitting down.
He’s all hat and no cattle.
He’s all gurgle and no guts.
He’s as yellow as mustard, but without the bite.
Scared as a sinner in a cyclone.
Scared as a cat at the dogpound.
The time to kill a snake is when he raises his head.
“Dirt shows up on the cleanest cotton.”
When I first started reading about the church´s harassment of you, I was still a member of the church and I had no idea it was engaged in activities of this nature. How should I know? I didn´t read the internet. I was shocked, to say the least. I felt contaminated by its fundamentalistic approach. I mean, since I was a scientologist, this kind of behaviour was something I was in in favour of too. Suddenly I started understanding why other people find The Church of Scientology so repulsive.
Paying 22 lawyers to defend DM´s disgusting behaviour is equally repulsive. How many scientologists are having sleepless nights because they have been pressurized into donating far beyond their means thinking their donations went to defend Scientology when in fact it is being spent to defend DM`s obnoxious and sick and twisted behaviour?
DM has never earned a dollar in his life. Like a parasite he lives off other people´s money. For this reason he has no respect for money. This contempt of other people and other people´s money is what he is demonstrating in the court in Texas.
I along with thousands of people around the world hope that the judge will put a final period to this menacing little bully´s Taliban regime.
I wish you both VICTORY!
And I hope he will be squashed like a bug!
1 lawyer and the truth > 22 lawyers and a pack of lies….. not even close.
DM knows that the longer he drags this case out in an effort
to overwhelm with money and effort there is an increasing
liability the sheeple will find out and all that Shermanspeak
with all the twisting of the truth will not help to keep it under lid.
Plus the judge is sharp enough to slam down the hammer
and say “that’s it!”.
Plus all the squirrel busters should also be indicted as co-
conspirators and should personally pay for their atrocious
behaviors.
Found them !!!!
The sound of crickets.
Some consider knowledge of LRHs abuses an overrun, being negative, having a nefarious motive.
Mr Daddy, I applaud the service you bring!
There are so many folks out there that still do not know these things.
Keep up the good work.
The one thing a psychopath truly fears is exposure, and he will do anything to prevent it.
Wow! That’s horrendous!
Thank you for all you have done, and continue to do.
• The mere fact that 22 lawyers are needed against your 1 to attempt to overwhelm you speaks volumes of your strength and power. Bravo! Θ
They don’t realize that you’ve only given them a tiny flake off the tip of the iceberg. They are in for a severe reckoning.
Hi Marildi
We have been having problems too. Haven’t had any comments on any thread for the last two days and many of the post don’t seem to have a ‘reply’ button to respond to them.
but I’m sending these two that I wanted to post to you.
Hi Marildi
I wanted to reply to your post dated Jan 29th at 11.45pm and tell you what a lovely person you are, but there was no facility to reply.
Also there were two other posts of yours that I wanted to respond to and I somehow lost them.
Anyway keep being you.
Lots of love
Pip
Dear Marildi
I love your references to the centrality of the need for forgiveness and it reminds me of an event that happened during my own recovery.
Soon after being expelled from the CofS I had a conversion experience, where God spoke to me in an audible voice and as a result of which I got involved with Christianity. Each church I attended, when I told them I had been involved with Scientology, told me I must renounce it as it was SATANIC. I was encouraged to burn all my books and although I complied with my “new friends” advice, it made no difference I still thought like a Scientologist.
Some dozen or so churches later I went to visit a Christian Community who showed me great compassion and when I explained I had been a Scientologist and every church I had attended would council me to renounce Scientology and when I “COULD NOT”, ceased to welcome me, this lady said “of course you cannot it is part of you”. I felt such a sense of relief, as if this heavy weight had come off my heart.
As I drove home it suddenly hit me “I love Scientologists”, this had never occurred to me before. Once I acknowledged this fact, I was able to also acknowledge that they had hurt me. I knew then what I must do. I HAD TO FORGIVE THEM. That was a big step forward in my recovery.
Ron has written that A.R.C. precedes an A.R.C. break which makes me wonder if it is even possible to heal an A.R.C. break without acknowledging that it was preceded by A.R.C. It certainly was in my case.
Love and Understanding
Pip
Dear All
One of the groups I am partial to is Unity, who I believe have quite a following in the U.S.A.
This gentleman writes a blog which I subscribe to and this piece I thought very pertinent to the subject of Scientology. http://jimrosemergy.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/spirituality-the-union-of-doubt-and-faith/
I love his closing sentence “and where there is no doubt, there can be no faith, but where doubt and faith are wed, a child is born – spirituality”.
Doubt was actively discouraged in the CofS, but as this guy points out ultimately RELIGION IS A DREAM but like all dreams there is a need to WAKE UP. How much more so with “the religion of religions”.
The “Church” of Scientology believes in GANG BANG activity. What is GANG BANG ?
From Tony Ortega’s Blog on the Scientology legal team supplying false evidence during Monique hearing today:
“12: 31pm’
“J. Swift is out of the courtroom, and he says Ray Jeffrey showed the one minute, no audio video that the church had supplied, which showed Monique pulling up to her house. Then Jeffrey showed the complete 10-minute clip with sound.’
“Monique pulls up, sheriff’s deputy arrives, asks the videographer who he is and what he’s doing. He says that he’s working for Eliot Abelson and Monty Drake.’
“It’s very damaging, J. Swift is saying.’
“It was a shock in the courtroom, he says. Ray asked if he found any other discrepancies, could he submit those, and Judge Waldrip replied, if you find any other time bombs, you can”.
http://tonyortega.org/2014/02/03/monique-rathbun-tries-to-slap-down-scientologys-anti-slapp-motion-in-court-today/#more-13038
How can former Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson justify working for a legal team that does this?
I would hope that we see some heads rolling on that team after this.
This has to be a criminal act.
Is it?
Alanzo
I do not see that their activity on Monique was “protected” and “privileged” no matter how much they invoke 1st amendment.
If a Jehovah’s witness repeatedly came to my home uninvited and urinated in my patio and paddled in a canoe in my pool, the correct thing for me to do is to call the police and /or use the courts such as a TRO.
I cannot just shoot him with a gun and take the law into my own hands That’s why Law enforcement and Courts exist. So that vigilante justice isn’t carried out.
The harassing Jehovah’s witness cannot say they are protected as a religion, therefore they have the right to do non-religious things and claim they have the RIGHT as a religion.
It is Miscavige ordered ACTIVITY that is the basis of the lawsuit.
If the “Church” needed to protect trademarks then they should have sued.
They did not.
Miscavige knew how he would be drawn right in so they avoided protecting “trade marks” via the courts and took to vigilante justice.
I think the strongest part of Monique’s law suit is that the “church” who considers themselves above the law, took the law into their own hands.
Spying and Stalking is not religious
Screaming and yelling and intimidating and covertly surveilling is not religious.
Hiring videographers “to make their life a living hell” is not religious
Making a hate web site stating Mosey (Monique) is a transgendered male is not religious.
Sending a male penis (dildo) to Mosey’s workplace is not religious.
I would think the very first thing one does in a new court with new judge is to TRY to establish credibility with the new Judge.
I cannot think of more instances of blowing all credibility with this Judge than how the Church with their 22 Lawyers have acted and played and lied in this law suit in New Braunfels
“But Nick says Judge Waldrip was very resistant to Ray about the presentation. How did it address the anti-SLAPP motion?
But he was equally unhappy with the editing job by Scientology.
Nick says Ricardo Cedillo tried to justify it by saying they had people working 18 hours a day to produce this information for the court.
Waldrip’s answer, Nick says, was cutting: “What you’re telling me is that you have people 18 hours a day cutting stuff.”
I agree, this embarrassing behavior from Scientologists, is nothing but religious fundamentalism out of control.
David Miscavige and his minions need to be confronted with the law, as it was done before with the main religious cults in the West, Scientology needs to be forced back to its appropriate place within civilized society.
Scientology and Scientologists need to integrate and abide by the current mores and laws of society.
I think that 60 years of deception, civil rights violations, and megalomania, under the color of religion are enough.
What does David do? He uses Gold staff (Who else is cutting 18 hours a day?) for destruction of evidence and accomplices to PERJURY. This is why the “religious leader” takes home the big bucks! He perverts the staff into criminals.
It is a team of losers! 🙂 Just like DM -the biggest loser out of all the members of the Church of Scientology. Marty stated once and it can be put into no better term, the C of $ under DM is just an implant place on the track. The first to offer a person pre-employment before implanting. 🙂 Yee GADS! What is this universe coming too? 🙂
One of them even objected for another one!
Very funny TO!
What a nice story Pip.
I’ve gotten to the point of being grateful for the lesson my years in scientology have taught me. As for the tech of scientology – i have had nothing happen to me that needs to be forgiven. As for the persons under the spell that harmed me – they really were only harming themselves.
Same with any and every transgression I have committed myself. I only harmed myself. In cases I felt I may have harmed another I have gone out of my way to make sure all the ARC was put back. Now as for my x who coxed my children to disconnect and whomever prompted him – well I have a ways to go on that but I do realize for me to hate would be an error also so I don’t do that but I do have a few words ….
And I like Marildi too 🙂
Wow, Pip. Wonderful story! Your “inability” to denounce Scientology reminded me of the line in the Code of Honor: “Never permit your affinity to be alloyed.” Or it might have been one of the other lines, “Never compromise with your own Reality.” However you would express it, I get that you had perceived certain understandings as being truths, and thus you couldn’t deny what you knew to be truth. And that lady was right – it was now part of you. Your knowingness.
Well done on being true to yourself, and thanks for sharing this inspiring experience.
Much love, marildi 🙂
Thanks, Pip. The feeling is mutual!
Thanks Cat. I’d never heard these b4. Once I was not FORCED to go to these ‘events’ I no longer went. My big objection with DM was he rarely ever looked at the crowd just left and right and left and and and. I also did not like the crowds. There was never much room to crown in and out of these things. When I first went on leave (’96) I went to a few but then my husband was not allowed to sit by me (he was still in SO) – they put him on security watch at the events. So I quit going. Now to hear this knowing the story of Lisa I’m not a bit surprised at how he spins the tale.
Thanks digging these out and posting CD.
Hi, Pip. What I do when there isn’t a reply button is to go up to the nearest reply button above the one I want to reply to. That button at least puts my reply directly under the right post. I also quote something from the post I’m replying to, or else include the poster’s name, so that it’s clear which post it is that mine is a reply to – since the email notification will indicate (incorrectly ) that it’s a reply to the post whose reply button I had used. This sounds more complicated than it is! But I hope you get the idea.
I read that when Leah Remini filed a missing person report on David Miscavige’s wife, that someone from the Sheriff’s department confirmed she was alright. I suspect that is the sheriff that was working for David Miscavige that just resigned amid rumors of corruption?
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/09/local/la-me-ln-scientology-leaders-wife-found-lapd-closes-missing-persons-case-20130809
http://tonyortega.org/2012/11/15/sheriff-lee-baca-handing-out-scientology-booklets/
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/06/local/la-me-ln-sheriff-baca-plans-to-retire-source-say-20140106
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/2014/03/shelly-miscavige-scientology-queen-de-throned
Amen.
I’ve met a lot of really good, local level Scientologists. It seems that the scum often does rise to the top.
Mark
C. RECENT DEFAMATION COURT DECISIONS
There are three important defamation decisions that have been made in Ontario, Canada, that clearly indicate that the courts will not be hesitant to award large damages awards, particularly in situations where someone’s professional reputation is destroyed. In Hill v. Church of Scientology of Toronto et al,8 Hill, who was a criminal prosecutor, brought an action against the Church of Scientology of Toronto, defendants in a criminal matter in which Hill was prosecuting. The Church of Scientology accused Hill of aiding and abetting other Crown Counsel in improper conduct regarding the sealing of documents and misleading a judge. The Ontario Court of Appeal found that the church’s allegations against Hill were unfounded and were made through the church’s legal counsel. Mr. Hill was awarded $300,000.00 in general damages, in addition to $500,000.00 in aggravated damages and $800,000.00 in punitive damages.
Thank you! I feel likewise. 🙂
You are welcome and thaks for adding a little “MASS” , Mostley when David Miscavige is talkinh, he is talking to himself.
I know what it is like.
I was invited to a fund raising event in 97, when I was checking the co$ out for a few days and I saw how they raise money, how they suck people dry and then some.
They use black auditing technology to take over and masterbate feeble minded people’s entire financial resources, present and future.
People were maxing out their credit cards and I think even taking out equity loans on their property for the co$. They will extort a person’s entire credit ability.
When I saw a ten yr old give all the contents of his piggy bank, after about 10 -15 runs or more, of black auditing money extraction tech . I was not counting, but I was getting wore out listening to the reruns. That made me sick. That made me sure I would not join them.
That is called a systems house. Where they systematically plan and connive on how to take you to the cleaners.
Dio
Monique, this is your lawsuit right?
22 lawyers vs Sugar Ray.
It seems DM has not attained the Grade 0 auditing process, although he is the leader of the greatest and most expansive religion on Earth in the 20/21st century.
The great DM requires 22 lawyers to keep him from telling the truth and communicating freely about anything. LOL
With enough money you can buy yourself out of any game you do not wish to play.
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Thanks Cece and Marildi. Wow! “Today is rich in blessings” or in Scientology terms “Cognitions are the milestones of case gain”.
Having just read Brian’s latest post I now realise the difference between LOVE and AFFINITY. Affinity is always EXTERNAL (the consideration of distance) whereas love is INTERNAL and does not involve distance, “love is ONENESS”. It is FEAR that holds us in a viewpoint and only LOVE can free us. “PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR”, human love AMELIORATES FEAR. As long as a person fears they are susceptible to TRAPS, hence the only way out of a trap is through FORGIVENESS.
Hi Marildi
Thanks for the info. I shall try what you suggest.
Love
Pip
Pip,
I generally like the Christian/ biblical perspective you add to this blog.
It lifts scntlgy to a whole new tone level.
The overall ethics, wisdom and life operating data of the bible is the most stable and balanced on this planet.
Dio
Well for more ‘MASS’ we were also supposed to dress up. When the big IRS win event was held I actually cut my hair and had my ears pierced. I HATED to dress up because there was no shopping time for one and it was never comfortable to me. When I say crowds I mean it was so crowed one literally could not really walk just scoot along being pushed. The food tables were about as bad. I can’t think of one thing I really liked about these events except being able to sit next to my sweetheart for a few hours oh and I pretty much always managed to snitch some of the flower decorations to take home 🙂
Thanks Dio
There is nothing like a bit of validation to lift the spirits. I was born into a Christian Science family and the difference between Christian Science and Scientology is really very small, in fact if both groups would clear up their MU’S they could be the “best of friends”.
Thanks again for your comm.
Love
Pip
PIP,
I posted, for the reasons you state.
I did not want you to be the lone voice in the wilderness on the subject.
I have read some Christian Science. And attended a few Sunday services as part of “completing my cycle of learning” process.
I did not see as much similarity as you do. I probably did not do enough.
There could well be some similarity.
But…..
There was quite a bit of “Unity” in my family, on my dad’s side.
My dad was heavily into Unity and Science of Mind by Ernest Holmes, Emmet Fox and others of like minds. His room was full of such material.
My dad was desperately looking for solutions to the problems of the mind, but did not find them. So much so that he could not run his business and look after his family, anywhere near the degree he should of.
Only a few yrs ago, I attended a “church” (maybe a dozen times) run by a couple who were certified “Science of Mind” instructors.
It was a bit eerie to see some of the “processes” of Science of Mind, that they would run their Sunday lectures on.
They had a lot of similarity to Dianetics and Scientology processes, but were weak and impotent by comparison.
I could see that they would not get to the root and resolve the cause with their processes. I could see where the missing data was. But I did see the similarities and the gist of their idea.
The couple tried desperately to get a “following”, but could not, and closed down.
In my opinion, much in part due the
“rub you the wrong way” – “personality” of the man.
He and his wife finally ran out of money resources and he went to drive bus.
It is kind of unfortunate in a way.
I asked to have a meeting in a coffee shop with him after attending a few of his Sunday services, because I was thinking about becoming a part of his efforts.
I thought I could take his efforts to a new level.
At the meeting I mentioned Scientology and that was the end of everything.
He slightly boiled over and scoffed and sneered and ridiculed me and Hubbard and the subject of scn.
Saying “what, that nonsense, he (Hubbard) believes in Xenu and Ufos and other rant and crap…………of which I do not remember the details anymore.
At the time, (because I have not did any COS scientology (only fz scn) ) and only did what I chose to do, so I did not know anything about Xenu and other such garbage.
I only knew about basic tech (auditing) and other lower level stuff.
I heard the word “XENU” and some discussions on it, but never paid attention to it.
I was carefully gleaning Hubbard’s data and that XENU stuff got caught in my BS filter and was redirected to the BS pile.
So when he went on that self righteous and narrow viewpoint rant, that was the end of our relationship.
Dio
This makes me ill, Cat Daddy. I saw this days ago, and it took me this long to watch it. I PRAY that Monique can outlast these people. I wish the Rathbun’s would put up a link for legal fund donations, until then, I’ll cough up for the site. This is going to cost the Rathbun’s a LOT of money – even if the lawyers are working on contingency. At least I know how to reg for legal funds, now 😉 Thanks for the lessons, Co$ and Karen De La Carriere!
He said that because he committed rape himself.
If I felt Sympathy would you rate me low on the tonescale ?
Keep strong but open up to friends
Ah you know
What a charmer wasn’t he
Hope you read this, good show Sir good show as anon would say , carry on !
Thanks for your reply Dio. Until yesterday I was not allowed to attend Christian Science services here in Portsmouth, UK. However I was welcomed back and attended my first Testimony meeting last night. I have been in an on-going dispute over “who is Jesus” but I have continued to love them in spite of everything, a bit like my situation with the CofS.
Interesting you did not see much similarity between Scientology and Christian Science. In fact they have much in common, that is why they will not have anything to do with each other. One can only be opposed to that which is in oneself. Geoffrey Filbert has quite a lot to say on the similarity between Scientology and Christian Science. http://www.freezoneamerica.org/excal/excal04a.html#christian
I don’t know whether I mentioned it, but I attended a Unity church for a year or two, and of course, Unity and Christian Science are similar. I never got into Science of Mind, I suppose because I truly see Scientology as the Science of mind, the name does not excite me, only having said that, are they spelling ‘mind’ with a small ‘m’ or a capital ‘M’?
I have learned the hard way that the word Scientology is the most emotive word I know. I no longer use it when speaking to a new person. I just give them some data and if they like it and ask where it comes from then I say I learnt it when I was a Scientologist.
I also know nothing above ‘Clear’ and have no desire to explore the “OT Levels”. Applying the data I learned while in the church serves me well, coupled with my relationship with God through Jesus.
Thanks again for the comm.
Love and ARC
Pip
Hi Pip,
I ack your reply and the contents of it.
My experience with Christian Science is that I attended a few church services and wanted to read their main book. I forget the name of it. I borrowed a book from their library and took it home.
That was only about four yrs ago. My only purpose for going there was to get some idea of what CS was about.
It also takes me about two hours to get there, by city transit, so that compounds the problem of me attending, I really wanted too.
They were also so glad to see a new person, they were hanging on to me, like glue. Which is kind of a bit too much for me. I don’t like people that much. :)) That is my aberration from an extra dysfunctional home and family life. ::)))
And I also do not have time for much idle talk and small talk. And having to listen to them want to tell me stuff I already know too well. That is like having to do kindergarten and play time, when a person has already been past university and still has knowledge hunger.
Anyways, I brought the book home and skimmed over a few chapters and I did not see any evidence of anything I did not already know, and then some. I just could not get into it.
Plus to make matters worse, I am a very slow reader. So slow that I get very annoyed with my self.
At the same I was heavily involved in learning solo clearing tech of any kind I could get my hands on.
And plowing through heavy case.
That was a particularly trying time of my life.
So another problem was that my plate was over filled by a lot.
But my curiousity about CS was satisfied by the fact, there there was nothing there in the book, that I saw anyways, that I did not already know.
The answers I needed were within scn and new tech developed by ex scios, and there is still ground I want to cover.
That time was around or just after I was attending the Science of Mind services. (The two churches CS and SofM were not far apart.)
Anyways, when I was attending the SoM services, I seen tech strikingly similar to scio tech.
The services consisted of showing the tech and discussing it on the projector screen.
But IMO pale by comparison in strength.
And I knew how to make it more effective, but that would not be possible.
http://www.scienceofmind.com/faq
When I completed that part of my cycle of learning, I had less interest in it than I already had, because several of my dad’s side of the family were into it and I did not see much improvement in their beingnesses. (Actually none.)
And like you, ( after studying scn for many yrs, and wanting to tell every one I know or met about the good in it ) I learned the hard way, too many times over, that the word “scientology” is the most emotive word I know of.
A very good way to make sure people will shun you at almost all cost. (About the same category as child molesters.)
I took a chance a few days ago, to tell someone (over the phone, who I met via a video conference, on emotional health) who I figured was high enough up on the scale of intellectual evolution to understand and could accept what I was saying and could take an objective intellectual perspective of dianetics and I did not hear back from her.
I even made an extra cautious effort to qualify what I was going to say (provide good gradient) and said that there is good scn and bad scn and the cos was a criminal organization.
But when I first mentioned the word scientology, the energy of our phone relationship just changed, just dropped.
I am now wondering what to do, if anything.
Dio
WordPress.com
Pip Threlfall commented: “Thanks for your reply Dio. Until yesterday I was not allowed to attend Christian Science services here in Portsmouth, UK. However I was welcomed back and attended my first Testimony meeting last night. I have been in an on-going dispute over who is “
Hi Dio
The book is called “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures” by Mary Baker Eddie.
I smiled to hear you say how glad the Christian Scientists were to see you. The church is dying, there were only two members at the meeting last Wednesday, but I brought six friends with me. I run a “Thinkers” group here in Portsmouth and I encourage my group to attend the Christian Science church.
I know it can be frustrating listening to people who are saying stuff one has already cognited on, but it never hurts to hear another viewpoint.
It was as a result of something that Mrs Eddy wrote that I started my “Thinkers” group. In the preface to Science and Health she says “The time for thinkers has come”. It was when I read that, that I realised I was a thinker and as a result put an ‘ad’ in the local paper which read “Are you a thinker? If so get in touch” and eight people answered and that was the start of the “Portsmouth Thinkers Group”.
I read that “frequently asked questions about Science of Mind magazine”. What a hoot that they felt it necessary to distance themselves from both Scientology and Christian Science.
As you probably know my ‘thing’ is Love and Understanding, and the one single difference between all these disciplines is they don’t UNDERSTAND each other and they don’t LOVE each other enough to endeavour to UNDERSTAND.
As for your mis-understanding with your friend, just recognise you went in over her reality level, don’t beat yourself up over it, just revert to “fair winds and fair weather” comm. and wait for her to reach, which she will, when she sees the situation has not fazed you.
Thanks for the comm. Dio
Love and ARC
Pip
Hi Pip,
Yes, Science and Health is the book.
The problem with minds are many.
The quality of a mind (person) is dependent on
1.the postulates the mind is operating on,
2. the tone level
3. the number of theta units
4. their reality level,
5. how many viewpoints they can accept to view at one time.
6. if they are immersed in a subject, ( a cycle of action) that has not been completed, yet.
7. if they are looking for something other than what they are doing
8. the idea not to upset the status quo, not to rock the boat.
There are significant vested interests in any organization.
So they do not want their game unmocked, so to speak.
9. you can not reach a person unless they are ready and the comm is at the right gradient.
10. it appears quite true that people are playing the game they are for particular reasons, they have certain lessons and experiences to learn and complete.
Like the old eastern saying; when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
So a church of any kind cannot be blamed for not wanting to look outside their box, to look into someone else’s box and see similarities or join forces, or what ever that is different then the way things are.
The exception is if some reason what they are doing is not working or whatever other reason organizations break up .
So I learned it is usually best not to rock someone’s boat, especially more than they can handle.
It all depends on where the “individual is at” and where “the group is at”.
I just thought of Hubbard’s tone scale, and tone and theta level of data:
If it is more than a half a point more than where the person or group is at, you will cause undesired and unwelcome effect and the reaction can range from the data just going over their head to ….they will boil over.
I read in a couple of places this last yr that there are around 20 different types of humans on this planet. Each is on their own path of evolution.
This last yr someone out of the blue sent this to me and said that I must read it.
http://www.revelatorium.com/preface.html
The person was an ex and fz scn, with an Arab name from 3000 miles away. ( I never heard of him before and have not continued comm either.) Somehow he found my name and email address on line and was overcome by the urge to send it to me and tell me that I must read it, especially Stargate ch 19. It just showed up in my email box one day.
The way the entire incident occurred was very interesting to me.
So I have read ch 19 and am picking away at the rest of the book.
I am very thankful he did find me and tell me about the book and strongly insisted that I read it.
Dio
Hi Dio
The first thing to differentiate between is Mind with a capital ‘M’ and mind with a small ‘m’.
This was LRH’s misunderstanding concerning Christian Science. When Mrs Eddy writes Mind with a capital ‘M’ she is referring to SPIRIT or in Scientology terminology THETA. When she speaks of mind with a small ‘m’ she is referring to mental image picture which the reactive mind is composed of. So in terms of Mind (Divine Mind) we all share the one Mind, yes in terms of mind (small ‘m’) we are all different and everything you say applies.
I looked at that website you sent me. It looks very interesting, I shall study it further. I don’t know whether I sent you this piece I received from a Unity Minister, but in case I didn’t here it is again
Love
Pip
Hi Pip,
1. I certainly know well what you mean by Mind and mind.
2. I read Jim Rosemergy’s link.
I would say Jim does not quite get it.
One of the most important articles Hubbard ever wrote was “How to study a science”.
In a nut shell, he says that you cannot understand scn ( or any subject) unless you read and study every other subject of comparable magnitude in the known universe and evaluate them against the first one and against each other, and test them for workability or value.
And value is determined by the number of problems a datum solves and how well it solves them. (Also look for datums of comparable magnitude.) And above all learn to think for yourself. If you can only parrot someone, it is but an aberration.
In evaluating scn against the bible, I would say that the main common datum ( the highest theta datum) to extract is to live by postulate.
In the bible it says: Come on to me and all these things shall be given on to you.
I think the real meaning of that is quite esoteric and means that we must learn to live by postulate. Postulating is a function of comparable magnitude to prayer.
Some spiritual teachings call it “living in the flow” .
If we depend on our selves – (ego) – (mind) – the mest universe for our sustenance we will run into problems and disappointment. Because the mest universe is already effect of a previous postulate.
In my own experience and studying other people’s experience, that appears to be most true. I have touched on it for short periods of time.
It is connecting to a different dimension, a different frequency and living in it.
How to stay connected is the challenge.
I would say that clearing out all case, and false and limiting data, and learning to live by the rules of that dimension, is essential to staying connected.
Dio
Bravo Monique and Marty.
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