Religion

Posted on June 14, 2015 by Mark C. Rathbun | 199 Comments

Perhaps the greatest appeal of religion is its affected ecstasy activities. Those can provide exhilarating peak experiences. Religion’s greatest benefit might be the order that it brings to its adherents’ lives. Oftentimes however that order and ecstasy only maintain longevity with forfeiture of one’s intellect and sometimes even conscience. How seriously one regards his religion is a good indicator of how far down that road he has travelled. When this apparent cycle goes unchecked religion can begin to dictate and even stifle lives.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

199 responses to “Religion”

yvonneschick | June 14, 2015 at 2:53 pm |

Amen.
dodobird1 | June 14, 2015 at 2:54 pm |

Nicely stated.
Al Brown | June 14, 2015 at 2:57 pm |

This is a much needed signpost for all travelers.
Moneca Ryane | June 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm |

A friend of mine calls religion ‘organized crowd control’. And do it goes … if your looking for someone else to give you the answers, then you buy those answers hook, line & sinker – your controlled by someone else’s dogma. It is not ultimately freeing or exhilarating it’s just samo, samo…..
Thanks for posting yet another point to ponder. Best ~
windhorsegallery | June 14, 2015 at 4:12 pm |

Yup!!!

Windhorse
Sharon | June 14, 2015 at 5:01 pm |

That’s an interesting Sunday sermon, Mark. (You’ll always be “Marty” to me.) As I thought about what you wrote here, I was reminded of my favorite scene in the film, Forrest Gump. Lt. Dan asks: Have you found Jesus yet, Gump? Forrest answers: I didn’t know I was supposed to be lookin’ for him, Sir. Lt. Dan laughs knowingly (and I do, too) at this simple, revealing and honest answer from a simple and honest Forrest Gump (with a mind unable to store the irrelevant). Our human selves seem to be born looking for something, or maybe like a vaccine we are injected with this concept from such an early age, it feels inborn. I’m pretty sure religion is not what we are looking for, yet so many of us end up there, for a while anyway. I don’t think everyone is willing to do much of the forfeiture business, but even less if they have ever been in a cult. I personally have tried on a few “religions” and have found myself unable to take them seriously for long, excluding the one I’ve had to make up for myself. I feel the need for some kind of “religion” to help me have some kind of stability of thought, but I can’t even agree with Webster’s definition of the word. I wish I were more like Forrest Gump in the “religion” department; completely oblivious to the mass hype and hysteria that passes for religion. I survived 10 years of Catholic schooling. Or did I? And maybe this is real religion, that we sort through all the B.S. and discount the ridiculous on our way to the sublime.
Ella R | June 14, 2015 at 6:32 pm |

Great observation Marty, which applies to all deeply committed beliefs…”sacred cows make the best burgers” (apologies to any HIndus – I’m not actually advocating the widespread slaughter of religious protected species 🙂 )
knatherthomas | June 14, 2015 at 8:23 pm |

Religion ideally should be supportive and comforting. Ikebana began as a way to honor Buddha. It grew to symbolically honor Buddha, the Tao, Confucius and life, becoming itself a way; a quiet exercise with flowers.
Paul Burkhart | June 14, 2015 at 9:01 pm |

An extended period of ‘affected ecstasy activities’ along with the associated profound significance of religious dogma will certainly make for a heroic battle to emerge with one’s intellect intact. We can look back with certainty that we won’t be fooled again, and warn others of the dangers of that path, but…oh, the allure of ecstasy.

Let it go, let it go…let it go.
FOTF2012 | June 14, 2015 at 9:19 pm |

“Oftentimes however that order and ecstasy only maintain longevity with forfeiture of one’s intellect and sometimes even conscience.”

I’m reminded a bit of Christopher Hitchens’ stance — religion poisons everything.
gretchrn dewire | June 14, 2015 at 9:43 pm |

There is a big difference between religeon and spiritualit. Being on a spiritual path parts of religion make sense, but needing to join one or another doesnt to me. I believe all of us are involved in spiritual evolution whether we realize or not. We just make alot of mistakes along the way..I have learned alot from my “detours”.
Monte | June 15, 2015 at 7:57 am |

Religion is a guardian of sleep. It is an idol. We use it to defend ourselves against the truth of who and what we really are. It is an external thing that we think will give us salvation by making us special and by protecting us from danger (the punishment we unconsciously believe we deserve). We seek religion and other idols to fill our lack and make ourselves complete, and they seem to work for a time. But they always fail and end up being harsh gods that punish and demand but do not give. In seeking them we end up reinforcing our beginning premise: that we are lacking. The reason is that, in perpetuating a pretense that we are something we are not, we are unconsciously seeking lack, incompletion and death (the ultimate lack of life).

While all idols are guardians of sleep, the inevitable pain and suffering that is an integral part of their make up, can be used to awaken us from searching the external chaos and turn our search to the calm stillness within.
Eddie | June 15, 2015 at 9:56 am |

Sometimes I think religion is like a car. You are on your road and using a car. And people use different cars on their road. And often it happens that people fall in love with their car and forget the road. But when you reached your destination you look back and know that the religion, philosophy, science whatever you used were just means to an end.
Cat Daddy | June 15, 2015 at 3:52 pm |
Brian | June 15, 2015 at 3:54 pm |

Religions are founded by mystics. The fundamental principle in religion is faith:
indirect knowing

Yoga meditation creates mystics. The fundamental principle is direct perception of truth:
direct knowing

This June 21st will be the first time in history that the United Nations will be celebrating International Day Of Yoga. Each year from now on the world will pay homage to Vedic knowledge and procedures.

This means the entire world will be celebrating the ancient practice of consciously evolving through techniques that support mental, physical, emotional and spiritual attainments.

The reason we don’t have an international day of Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc is because directly knowing truth, not indirect knowing, is where we as a planet are heading.

We are heading toward a Singularity in society, not the fragmenting, divisive, intolerance and “only ways” that faith only religions teach.

It is a milestone in human history in my opinion.

By perceiving our kinship with all life, by directly seeing that we all are spiritual beings living a human existence, we can easily find harmony in this world.

The work is done in meditation. We find that Unity and Indivisible Reality within first. Then we see it in the outside world and in others. Then we cherish all life, as and in, ourSelves

Tat Tvam Asi…………………. Thou Art That
GRETCHEN DEWIRE | June 15, 2015 at 9:52 pm |

Brian, I love how you express this. I to am a devote of yoga. I have been reading yiur posts for a couple of years and you always say what I am thinking better than I could. Thankyou
Brian | June 15, 2015 at 10:44 pm |

BTW, I support and love religion. It’s just that at some time in our development we don’t need it as much as we use to. The exoteric effortlessly resolves into the esoteric when we take the journey within.

We can manifest all of the beautiful qualities, that the sages and saints of all religions teach, without the labels of being in a religion.

Internalized and expressed principles are senior to membership cards and labels.

Be Still and Know That I Am God………………………. Psalm 46:10
Brian | June 16, 2015 at 9:59 am |

Hey Gretchen, thank you. Sometimes I’m concerned I’m too preachy. I love this subject so much I get enthusiastic.

I’m happy you enjoy what I right. I just want people to know there is great fun and learning after Scientology. I want to inspire people to find their own road, not mine!

It’s very sad and confusing when people are attached to one way of seeing and being. (I’m not talking to you now Gretchen, you’re on the road)

Ron taught us that auditing is the “only way” to “really” learn about life and Spirit.
Once this is agreed to it makes it very difficult to break out of that selfish and arrogant way.

Dave, Scientology will never be accepted by society because of:

1) justified violence against critics (Ron’s persecution complex)
2) false doctrines (Ron’s imagination)
3) disrespect and demoralizing the family (The GE is a Family Man)
4) absolutely no knowledge of the after life (just implant stations)

Dave, you needed therapy as a kid to work out your rage and anger issues. But Ron used your violent tendencies and helped developed them for his own selfish ends. And know you are a prisoner like him.

Synthetic karma ain’t so synthetic whe you are in the pressure cooker. Isn’t that so Dave?

Dave, do you want to help redeem yourself? Revoke all SP declares and help families get back together. That would help your PR image more than sending minions into dumpsters.

Dave, do you want to have world wide media attention? Revoke Fair Game publically. You will have an increase in gold PR for the first time in Scientology’s history.

Dave, you have followed Ron’s advice for keeping power and it has landed you in the shit hole.

Are you happy? Fuck no, you are a prisoner of the role you play. I’d rather be a poor person with family, friends and a song in my heart than be a man in a guilders cage whose blood pressure is going out the top.

You believed in the virtue of violence, taught by Ron, and now your life is fucked. Your PR toast. I know sometimes you wish things were different. I know you do.

You can thank Ron. He is source.
LDW | June 16, 2015 at 11:31 am |

Perhaps that’s why there are over 170,000 people religiously identifying themselves as “Jedi” in the UK and a mere 2,500 identifying as “scientologists.”

I remember the first time I watched Star Wars in the theater. I came out somehow transformed. It was an exhilarating experience. The entire audience exploded with a spontaneous applause at the finale. The dream of being a Jedi and righting wrongs across the universe held a magical allure.

I never felt that sense of well being after receiving a friggin sec check.
A Wise Fool | June 16, 2015 at 4:50 pm |

There is a Way, the Tao, a Path. It seems for humans at the beginning of the Path they need a structure – call it religion. But as we walk that path we need less and less structure until there is no structure at all – call it Infinity, Emptiness, God, the Void, the Allness-of-All, the Static, Nirvana, Enlightenment…whatever…
Path of Buddha | June 16, 2015 at 5:08 pm |

Well written, Brian.
Yoga is here is south Florida and growing. My wife and I, on a visit to St Louis last year, also had Yoga instructions from two professionals. I really liked it. I also had a chance to read a book on it. Great stuff. No problem with it at all.
Reading the history of the great meditation masters from 3.000 years ago is also a great way to steady the mind.
GMW
arnielerma | June 17, 2015 at 3:47 am |

Imagine my surprise, back in 1993, after doing Robert Monroe meditation for 30 minutes, finding myself totally blown out, and on a whim, I picked up the cans of an E-meter that I had and it had a wide F/N.. The state of enhanced suggestibility is called hypnosis or trance. The degree, intensity, or depth of the trance state is directly proportional to loss of physical sensations in the body, together with a floaty feeling, if it is what is called “waking trance.”

Hypnosis WORKS!

Arnie Lerma
Regraded Being | June 17, 2015 at 7:12 am |

For anyone who’s ever experienced any form of spiritual phenomenon there’s always a nagging suspicion that there’s something more to life. It becomes like trying to locate an object in a forest on a dark night.
If you look directly at it, there’s only blackness yet when you glance away it appears in your peripheral vision.
I guess religion is aligning oneself to others who claim to have seen that same object.
Poor fellow who’s ever seen a ghost or even a UFO. Poor fellow who’s ever experienced some form of exteriorization or a strong sense of Déjà vu or any other form of paranormal activity. It behooves him to find an explanation
for that experience.
Then there are those who’ve never experienced any of these things but have been told by others that they do indeed exist.
We wonder. We seek. We discard some ideas and buy into others.
Then there’s Guru or the Master or the Teacher who claims to have the answers to the riddles you’ve posed yourself.
Does he really know?
Will he guide you, or will he enslave you?
Ah…yes, religion.
What an interesting dilemma.
Monte | June 17, 2015 at 7:35 am |

Really like your metaphor Eddie!

It seems that more folks than not prefer to be passengers in the cars and not only leave the driving to someone else but also let the driver chose the destination and the route to get there.
FOTF2012 | June 17, 2015 at 9:22 am |

Hi Brian, I hope we are headed toward direct knowing as a planet. I think that the scientific method gives us our current most successful model for achieving knowing, but I also think that science will expand somehow into non-materialistic realms — much as Newtonian physics (analogous to our current scientific paradigm) became a subset of Einsteinian / relativistic physics (analogous perhaps to science expanded to ever more comprehensive scope).

I would classify Scientology as a type of gnosticism yoked to pseudo-science that makes physical claims that could be scientifically tested, but which has failed entirely at validating any of its claims.

Your post brought to mind Hubbard’s claims about yoga — that the practice chained the thetan to the body even more than he/she/it was already trapped by the body. Hubbard was not well educated. I wonder if he knew the word yoga is related to (and has a somewhat similar meaning to) “yoke.” Perhaps he misunderstood that yoga is about “yoking” the spirit to the body. Hubbard had many misunderstandings. Perhaps that was one of them.
Harol | June 17, 2015 at 11:39 am |

Seems to me you need to define “religion”.

A study of wisdom (vedic hymns), or a set of rituals (Roman Catholic High Mass etc). Both are recognized as valid definitions.

Also, an important point by LRH – a stable datum (religion) used to align a confusion does not necessarily have to be “true” at the time one implements it to handle their confusion.

Marty – Re your last post – I see you recently listened to LRH’s “Study of the Particle” lecture. “yes ?”
Path of Buddha | June 17, 2015 at 5:26 pm |

History of Man,

“Separation from the body! How the mystics have striven for this one! India and the ‘join Nirvana’ has given us ‘techniques’ WHICH ARE GUARANTEED TO GLUE A THETAN TO A BODY AS THOUGH RIVETED AND TIED WITH IRON BANDS. So beware of mysticism and its techniques and yogism. Your hardworking author has been over the jumps and though the hoops of more mysticism than is ever suspected and on the ground where mysticism first hit earth – India, and I can guarantee you that these practices and hopes are a sort of theta trap to keep men in their bodies, in apathy, ill and tied to superstition.”
Path of Buddha | June 17, 2015 at 5:29 pm |

FOTF2012,
The above quotation from History of Man was also a key part of OT VIII on the Freewinds in 1988.
GMW
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 5:41 pm |

Hey FOTF,

I think you are right and many others do also. There is only truth. And how to see it is the way.

“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology.” – Albert Einstein

“Those who aspire to the state of yoga should seek the self in inner solitude through meditation. With body and mind controlled they should constantly practice one-pointedness, free from expectations and attachment to material possessions.” — Bhagavad Gita

BTW, yoga is Sanskrit and it does mean yoke. It’s meaning is to bring together the individual soul with the Supreme Soul: God. To yoke the individual with the whole.

Ramakrishna has an analogy to illustrate:

“Consider our individual selves being a salt statue. A form of ourselves made of salt. Then throw the salt statue into the Ocean. The statue will dissolve and become one with the Ocean.” (Paraphrased)

This is Yoga. The joining of the individual self with the God Self.

Ron was totally ignorant about Yoga and God. To Ron the highest state was to be a glorified super ego, an eternally separate entity, paying homage to no Dharmic Law. This super ego makes up its own laws because it’s all just a consideration, an opinion.

I think that’s why he lied so profusely, because he did not bow to any cosmic standard of decency and believed the individuated ego to be the final arbiter of spiritual truth.

He actually third partied Yoga.

I’ll tell you a practice that ties the soul to the body:

Looking for BTs for years and years and years.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 5:48 pm |

But Patanjali says it best:

“Yoga is the neutralization of the occilations of thought.”

Everything Ron ever dreamed of but failed in, is seen in Yoga as a definite accomplishment when we practice the disciplines of the sages.

Power, insight, wisdom, awareness of our bodiless nature, happiness and complete liberation from our self imposed limits.

Ron will have to pay the piper for denigrating other paths. There is a workable path to spiritual liberation. Ron did not find it.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 6:03 pm |

Hey George, yes, it seems to be on an upswing. I saw a stat graph from some researchers and it has been on a very steep climb for years now.

I believe the Yoga market in America is $42,000,000,000 annually. That’s billion. It is sweeping the nation and the world because it works. Hospitals now teach Hatha Yoga (physical) and Raja Yoga (meditation)

Have you read Yogananda’s book Autobiography of a Yogi? It is more of a portal than a book.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 6:15 pm |

One more important point:

All other paths that lead to uniting the individual soul with the Supreme Self are Yoga also. Yoga is the practice that leads to this state. Saint Francis was a yogi, Buddha was a supreme yoga master, Sufis practice yoga. Anyone that goes within to find spiritual realization is a yogi.

Yoga is not a religion
Yoga is not a group faith
Yoga is not a belief system

Yoga is a practice, a doing, that has been tried and double blinded by saints and sages throughout the ages. Yoga has indeed freed people in the way Ron describes. And much much much more than Ron described.

Because Ron was not liberated. Vistiral injected into the butt is not something needed for liberated masters. They are free, they are supremely happy.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 6:35 pm |

Arnie, it is much simpler that that. When we meditate we feel calm. Just like having a nice deep sleep. Meditation is not self hypnosis.

Meditation is a process that helps us still the noisey mind from the incessant creation of thinking.

The byproduct is simply being happy. When we go on a vacation and feel good when we come back, did the vacation hypnotize us or put us into a trance? No, the vacation simply helped us to neutralize all of the worries and cares of surviving in this world. We are more of ourselves, we are not in some mindless trance.

Daily meditation is a daily vacation from the noisey monkey mind, going from thought to though (branch to branch) and never letting go of one thought until we grab the next.

It’s extremely simple. And very effective.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 6:38 pm |

Meditation is the opposite of hypnosis. It de-hypnotizes us from self imposed limitations. It does not inject something into our consciousness, it removes them.

And ultimately it leads us face to face with our own incorporeal nature.
Brian | June 17, 2015 at 9:04 pm |

Thanks George, I was wondering where that piece of wrong knowledge was. I remember reading it back in the day. It affected me and many others to be condescending and arrogant towards meditation and other paths.

Some people try to elevate themselves by cutting off the head of others. It gave Ron Altitude Instruction per his writing of the same title.

Condemnation yoga and mysticism and feigning to be an expert in it, then “being so kind and teacher like” by warning us about it’s dangers is………………… Ha Ha Ha, I’m looking for a good word. Maybe you can propose a good word for this drivel!

BTW, the mystics goal is not exteriorization. Nor was it Lord Buddha’s like he said.

I think Ron suffered a lot in his body. Maybe that’s why he was always trying to get out of it. In AA they call that “doing a geographical.” In other words thinking your condition will change by going somewhere else.

Being out of a body is not the goal. Exteriorization is an outcome. Just like power.

The goal of Yoga is to know God. No wonder Mr Smarty Pants avoided it. Ha Ha Ha!!

Somewhere I remember Ron saying something about God missing his witholds. Ya Think!!!!!!????
Path of Buddha | June 17, 2015 at 9:57 pm |

Hi Brian,
I read Patanjali and a book which explained him. I’ll check out
Yogananda’s book next. Pantanjali used a lot of Pali terms so he was easy
to understand.
Letting go | June 18, 2015 at 6:05 am |
Path of Buddha | June 18, 2015 at 10:56 am |

Brian,
Since you asked for a word to describe Hubbard’s mental condition, I need to provide an answer. In fact, there are several ways to approach the subject. In my opinion, the best word to use is “pickled.” Let me explain. In Pali an ordinary mind is subject to the “asava” which block knowledge. One of the best translations is that the mind is “fermented” or “pickled.”
In a general sense, this is the first condition for conceit. Since Hubbard was also egotheistic, we get a good first definition. We could also find a root in his constant creation of fantasy. But for now pickled is best.
I’m sure other definitions could also fit.

GMW
reapingwithshoutsofjoy | June 18, 2015 at 11:18 am |

I am a Christian, and, yes, there have been emotional highs. I liken those times to the feelings one experiences when first falling in love. At times I do have that same rush of endorphins for my husband of thirty two years. But that is not the reason I stay committed to our relationship. The same is true of my faith. As a young Believer there was great fervor and I know I was over-zealous. I had much to learn and only life can teach so many of those lessons. Now, I find in my belief system a moral compass that drives me toward love, compassion and service. And as I look around me, and I am certainly open to correction on this, it seems to me that Christians as an aggregate are the most generous to respond to any tragedy anywhere in the world with services, goods and money. As one involved personally in social services, my experience is that it is churches and other Christian organizations by and large that try to provide the safety net for those who find themselves in a position of needing a helping hand.
Faith/religion/spirituality….whatever you choose to call it, is certainly personal, but a tenet of Christianity is that, ‘Faith without works is dead.’ This is my challenge to anyone’s ethos-and again I borrow from the Bible, ‘Look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.’
Brian | June 18, 2015 at 10:19 pm |

Ha ha ha !

Pickled! I like it.

I think he helped pickle himself by causing some nasty doctrines to see the light of day.

I truly believe that Bolivar, The GE is a Family Man and Fair Game helped in the pickling process because evil has been done by them.

My definition of evil is: That which causes suffering. When someone lives in selfishness and uses the good will of others to acquire influence and power, at their expense. That’s evil.

I have been contemplating lately the type of mind that could relegate the need for family bonding love and affection to a psychotic primordial ghost’s motivation.

A fictitious piece of ideological rubbish that gives “an evolved” justification for familial abuse and neglect.

I have had numerous people tell me of spouses that would quote this adharmic anti family piece of trash and then justify some elevated false righteousness “I’m a thetan” delusion.

I think it’s one of Ron’s top ten false doctrines that has caused more harm than people know.
Brian | June 18, 2015 at 10:32 pm |

In this one document, L Ron Hubbard third partied the family unit. Do you think he did it by design?

It’s almost as if he wanted people to only bond with him. So he denigrates the family unit yet pens Bolivar and gives the reader a sense of duty to do anything for Ron. Bolivar is Ron redefining and manipulating your conscience. You’re sense of right and wrong was purposely manipulated.

Bolivar is where LRH fucks with your conscience. He then gives justification for violence to protect who??? Ron of course.

So family bonding is the GE and psychotic. But harming others to protect Ron is a religious duty.

This may be beyond pickled George. Can we have another word also.

Pickled is great, but there is another around here somewhere.

Very Warm Regards,
Brian
Path of Buddha | June 19, 2015 at 8:59 pm |

Hi Brian,
Another name you desire to describe the quotation from History of Man. Well, here is the logic: Comments are shown in [brackets ].

History of Man,

“Separation from the body! How the mystics have striven for this one! India and the ‘join Nirvana’ has given us ‘techniques’ WHICH ARE GUARANTEED TO GLUE A THETAN TO A BODY AS THOUGH RIVETED AND TIED WITH IRON BANDS.”

[ The first step in mindfulness is concentration on the physical body. So Hubbard is saying that this glues a mystic to a body. No, not really, because the objective is to see the body as body. This to Hubbard means that the thetan is “RIVETED AND TIED WITH IRON BANDS.”
I smell an implant. Somewhere Hubbard talked about “as is” but I guess he forgot about it here. Exteriorization from a physical body does not mean at this stage that a spirit takes command. “Real Powers” break through form, feeling, perception, consciousness and most of all, mind. ]

History of Man,

“So beware of mysticism and its techniques and yogism.”
[So beware of “as is”. It also seems that yoga is left hanging. Hubbard does not see it as capable of mysticism anyway. ]

History of Man,

“Your hardworking author has been over the jumps and though the hoops of more mysticism than is ever suspected”

[ Where is the record? It must be in fantasy. He obviously did not reach the E/P of mysticism. I can’t imagine he did Yoga. The jumps and hoops are not mentioned in the literature. Perhaps, Hubbard could be more specific.]

History of Man,

“and on the ground where mysticism first hit earth – India,”

[ So Hubbard claims to have been in India 10,000 years before recorded History studying mysticism. He avoided being glued to a body.” So Hubbard might be saying that mystics are “implanters”. ]

History of Man,

“and I can guarantee you that these practices and hopes are a sort of theta trap to keep men in their bodies, in apathy, ill and tied to superstition.”

[ If there is a guarantee, why can’t we get my wife’s money refunded? The body is handled in the first step of mysticism. I really wish Hubbard had told us the exact techniques of mysticism that he tried. So all of this justifies violence and the breaking up of families?]

In the end, we get a new name. Rupa in Pali means form and obviously Hubbard has not penetrated it. We then get “implant-asava-rupa.” This translates into English as “The pickled rapper – seriously”

GMW
singanddanceall | June 19, 2015 at 9:42 pm |

oh yes, those that can provoke “ecstasy activities”

One such author described it well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longinus_(literature)

excerpt:

“The Sublime[edit]
Longinus critically applauds and condemns certain literary works as examples of good or bad styles of writing.[5] Longinus ultimately promotes an “elevation of style”[5] and an essence of “simplicity”.[8] To quote this famous author, “the first and most important source of sublimity [is] the power of forming great conceptions.”[8] The concept of the sublime is generally accepted to refer to a style of writing that elevates itself “above the ordinary”. Finally, Longinus sets out five sources of sublimity: “great thoughts, strong emotions, certain figures of thought and speech, noble diction, and dignified word arrangement”.[6]”

Homo Novis comes to mind, in dmsmh, later OT.

If it were only true, there would be no reason for Hard Sell. ROFLMAO
Claire | June 20, 2015 at 3:21 am |

Well stated.
Brian | June 20, 2015 at 5:39 pm |

Hi George,

Pickled Rapper…………….. now that’s a winner.

I know a good rapper that can just open his mouth and create lyrics non stop.

That was Ron’s talent. To write free form and stream of consciousness. But his stream of consciousness had no concern for being truthful. That could be the pickled part.

He third partied all other paths with narcissistic condescension making his students afraid of looking into other practices.

He third partied the family unit with The GE is a family Man redirecting people’s loyalty to him and Scientology alone.

I now believe that Ron was 100% aware of what he was doing.

Being a master hypnotist he applied what he knew in order to cement loyalty.
He could very well have been the biggest conman this side of the Galactic Confederacy.

Pickled Rapper…………………. ha ha ha ha !!

I think I have a word also:

adharmic…………………… enemy of the Dharma
singandanceall | June 20, 2015 at 10:30 pm |

religion.

Timelines are important. BC or AD.

http://amazingbibletimeline.com/bible_questions/q4_ad_bc_ce_bce/

The ancient greeks were BC.

I luv Thomas Paine, the Age of Reason.
singandanceall | June 20, 2015 at 10:31 pm |

Oh, I forgot about Hubbard’s AD50.

ROFLMAO
LDW | June 21, 2015 at 8:18 am |

“If it were only true, there would be no reason for Hard Sell. ROFLMAO”

And no reason to enforce disconnection or heavy ethics.
Brian | June 21, 2015 at 9:13 pm |

Correction on my yoga numbers:

42,000,000,000 is incorrect. It’s 27 billion dollars in the US annually.
ANGELA CHANG | June 22, 2015 at 5:17 am |

could you post some stuff on refund?
I need that.
A Wise Fool | June 22, 2015 at 3:17 pm |

Don’t waste your time. No refunds happening. See the Garcia case on http://www.tonyortega.org.
Modren Shaman | June 23, 2015 at 4:27 pm |

Hi marty, here in toronto ,history has been made in Going Clear conference, the list of attendies includes our famous MRKJFK machurian candidate. Too much (ghost)security , I prefer to be out of sight.
Thanks to trailor-park-guys , we made it.

Hip hip hurray

MS
Path of Buddha | June 23, 2015 at 5:23 pm |

Hi Brian,
You got my attention with this:

“I now believe that Ron was 100% aware of what he was doing.”

What did you believe before?
How did you get to 100%?

GMW
Dan Frost | June 24, 2015 at 12:49 am |

I just wanted to say I appreciate your courage. I got out in 1983, after starting in 1975, and taking courses and auditing during that time. Thank g-d I never joined staff, and always had a foot in the outside world. Your bravery in placing your hand back in to help is of great value. Luck, all good. Dan Frost
phil scott | June 24, 2015 at 7:18 am |

Two things. First you did the honorable thing at the end of the movie…that will be a life saver for you.

Years earlier when you and Flappy were fishing and Flappy caught a fish, YOU seized Flappys fish, called it a minnow then threw is back, bypassing Flappy entirely.

Today though I watched Mister Rinder being interviewed, he has very nicely recovered to be a genuine man, so I will no longer be calling him names any more.
Leo Reilly | June 24, 2015 at 2:32 pm |

I don’t know about religion and religious belief, but I know a crime when I see one. Child abuse, false imprisonment, stalking, assault and battery, fraud– these are crimes in every country I know of. Slander, intentional infliction of emotional distress, harrassment, misrepresentation, etc. are all civil actions that can also be brought. Malicious behavior creates exposure to punitive damages, which lawyers love! And lawyers are taking notice. SoC is not the threat it was even 5 years ago (too many enemies!) and it represents deep pockets ($3 billion?), which trial lawyers always find interesting. And SoC has real estate which is easy to put judgment liens against. If you are interested in speaking to an attorney about your experiences in SoC, and if you live in N. California post a reply so we can speak. (BTW, Marty should think about being a trial consultant!)
Leo Reilly | June 24, 2015 at 2:59 pm |

As to the comment above that “refunds are impossible”, the first thing you learn in law school is “There is no such thing as a slam-dunk….ever.” As an attorney I rarely care whether another lawyer lost a similar case. It is the law that matters, not SoC’s success or failure rate in Court. (BTW, I have heard of people being successful in getting refunds.) Suing SoC is a decision each person should make on their own, but please don’t walk away from your rights simply because you think you’d lose. Speak to a good lawyer first. Educate yourself first, then decide.
F. Giulia | June 24, 2015 at 5:12 pm |

In my humbly opinion, religion is a reference point, a guide in moments in which nothing else have sense. Is spirituality – which for me it means that is in connection with our spirit, our soul. Most of holy books include respect for God and for the others, that can’t be a bad thing. I have some doubt about HOW MEN USE RELIGION.

PS. I am Christian-Catholic, but I really appreciate other religions.
The Oracle | June 25, 2015 at 3:06 am |

I have always viewed religion as policies in social intercourse. Our current laws are based on the ten commandments. Yes there are tales of magic in the Bible, but in the beginning, religion and magic were considered one and the same.
I have never “believed” in religion. I have seen the need and practical value in policy. I have always “believed” in magic. Because I could feel it. It started at a young age when I realized I could communicate to animals and them to me, when others could not. I realized somehow I was endowed with an extra perception. The fact that I had it when others did not seemed only explained in magic. things supernatural I relate with magic. I love all things magical and practical. I love Churches. The only place I had to play growing up for six years was a graveyard behind a church. When I was six I went to go stay in a house where I became aware of an invisible friend called “Minnie”. For two years Minnie went everywhere with me and we talked all of the time. When I was eight I found out someone named “Minnie” had lived and died in the home. After I insisted at Thanksgiving that an extra chair be put at the table for her. But you know, if things like this do not happen to you, it is not real in any way. And, people have their own ways because of their own life. I believe people if they say they have talked to a God or feel the presence of Christ. I believe they have. I do not have to have the experience myself to believe others. I believe there many Gods. Because of things that have happened to me, not because I read it somewhere. There are many universes and even each person has their own universe. I think all of them are valid. Even the ones we condemn. People mistake “truth” with “reality”, and “justice” with “revenge”. There are lines so fine people can not see the distances between them. Stepping into someone else’s head is an ability. Looking through their eyes is an ability. The abilities described on the grad chart in Scientology are only a minute taste of abilities to be gained, not a sum total. The idea that if you get up the grade chart you are totally able, is an obvious lie. You are able to communicate, solve problems, blah blah blah, this is so elementary compared to abilities out there. There are so many people in this world that have abilities that are not sold in Scientology that are incredibly valuable. Look at the Scientologist who is not able to be a friend with out permission from that organization and you see how low they can shoot and think they are able supreme!!! Look around and notice how many people who have never got into a Scientology organization seem to have their “grades” in. They can solve problems communicate etc etc. The leader of the Church is not a communicator or a problem solver and God knows his ser facs have no end. It’s all relative. That guy does not even have the ability to care about the person in front of him or take responsibility for their actions. According to the teachings of the organization he is a no responsibility case. A blown P.C. and a suppressor person. And the “most aware and informed” won’t even see it. What about the ability to step inside of his head? If Hubbard had sold that everyone would not have been set up for a loss. What of the lonely? Are we to take away hope. or the spiritual phenomena the lonely experience? They shift into universes others can not imagine. Those universe are real. I have wandered through them.
Friend | June 25, 2015 at 11:02 am |

First you have some philosophie .. an idea of life and living .. a style of the game with others .. then you have some who share this .. and you get a group .. and this is then called religion .. you go more into this system of believe, and it becomes a church .. if you have not good basic policy .. the group may spin down to idiots who dramatize in ecstacy or whatever power which they do not have .. and can not use really .. they are lost souls ..

@The Oracle .. I could also speak with animals .. it was never magic to me .. it was my willingness to do so .. it is okay for me to go into the field of awareness of other beings .. it results in understanding .. if you understand you are welcome in the head of another .. if you will force a bird, he will not come onto your hand .. not magic .. he accepts your understanding .. and you have a good win yourself ..

All religion is a group activity .. and with good policy it holds a long time .. the church of scientology has lost that a long time ago .. it means if you said something critical .. you had to look for your own overts .. but the person who said that was critical too .. but I have not seen one who has ever grasped that .. but it is so simple to understand ..

If I meet a young child who says to me “you are so bad to me” .. I ask what I have done .. maybe the child has something done .. but it is very childish to go over this in this way .. I would never win the game ..

We all have our own agreement with life and livingness .. and it can surely go worse in difficult ways ..
The Oracle | June 25, 2015 at 12:42 pm |

“@The Oracle .. I could also speak with animals .. it was never magic to me .. it was my willingness to do so .”

Willingness, or “will”, is a potent force. You might be saying, “do what thou will is the whole of the law.”
Al Brown | June 25, 2015 at 11:29 pm |

You have valuable contributions Oracle. Minnie sounds cool also. I believe in magic. When I was about 2 years old I would stand in the backyard of our house alone, but by my mother’s window as she watched me, and I talked my ass off with someone who my mother later described as my “invisible friend.” My mother told me in later years that she even asked her doctor if what I was doing was healthy. She said her doctor laughed and told her it was very healthy. Then when I was 4 years old in 1954 that I dug up some crap there in our backyard out of the dirt which was electronic parts. We lived right across the street from what was at that time the Atlanta Airport’s West runway. The planes would touch down on the runway right across the street from us and we were directly in the flight path. The city bought our house in 1955 to enlarge the airport. In later years I realized a plane had probably crashed there in the 1940’s right where I was digging up electronics. I think it may have been a graveyard of sorts where I played until I was 5 years old where I had my “invisible” friend. It was also when I was about 3 years old that I asked my mother what happens when we die as I wanted her opinion. Mom said that “we get buried and then our soul comes out of us and goes to heaven”. I thought about that and envisioned me laying there in the cold dirt being dead and to make things even worse suddenly “my soul” starts to leave me to go heaven!? I envisioned how that would work: I’m laying there thinking WTF? This ain’t cool. I’m not staying here either.
Brian | June 26, 2015 at 4:58 pm |

George, it is articles like Altitude Instruction and his being identified as someone expert in hypnotism. Then my reading and re reading The GE is a Family Man.

Of course it is just my opinion. But Ron’s writing “Altitude Instruction”, beyond a doubt, puts him in the category of knowing what he is doing as far as influencing people and being in control of their thoughts and getting them to obey.

But it was my recent writing on the GE is a Family Man on this post and Mikes ( last weeks Regraded Being) that got me going.

He, Ron, says in the GE is a Family man that “it’s not important to know about the GE.” Yet here he is denigrating the urge for family bonding to some “psychotic ghost” and telling us it’s not important.

I, Ron, am redefining the urge for family bonding and then saying it’s no big deal. Why would he say that?
In my opinion it gives him Altitude Instruction. He knows so much about the GE, yet you don’t, and because of his expertise in the area concludes it’s no big deal. Yet the outcome of this doctrine has been used to destroy and redirect family bonds to Ron himself. He undermines the strongest human bonding instinct, the family, yet says it’s no big deal. And when someone agrees to that…………………… they’ve been hypnotized per Altitude Instruction. Now family relations will not be in the way of redirecting bonding.

Also all of his third partying of all other spiritual paths. What is the outcome of that?
It’s to secure that people don’t start looking in other places for their spiritual support.

Look at the outcome. The family unit is decimated securing bonding to Scientology only. All other paths will cement you in a body so it’s dangerous to experiment. All other paths are looked at with scorn and contempt.

He knew where human beings had a natural sense of loyalty. He sought to undermine those loyalties so people would be only loyal to him: source

He told the story of Bolivar not as a lesson in history, but an attempt to undermine people’s innate sense of conscience, so that they would do whatever necessary to protect Ron’s power. Bolivar is pure manipulation, beyond a doubt. When Bolivar is agreed to, now one’s conscience will not get in the way.

Ron was a genius. An amazing genius. Ron had power and insight. His writing the Brain Washing Manuel is a revelation of his interest and expertise in manipulating the minds of others through pain. Altitude Instruction is his knowledge and expertise in psycho-manipulation without pain.

The Brain Washing Manuel is truly the blue print for the RPF.

He also wrote about the power of propaganda through the redefinition of words. “Open minded” “being griefy” “reasonable” and sympathy below hate on the tone scale come to mind.

I now believe that he consciously, purposely penned psycho-manipulative
writings so that all other natural instincts for bonding were third partied with the outcome of people only bonding with Ron.

Just look at the outcome. It is what happened. That is what He did.

The guy was brilliant. Ron says this or Ron says that, Ron is the savior, Ron is the only man to find the truth, I owe my whole life to Ron, I would be nothing without Ron, people denying family, denying moms and dads, sisters and brothers and transferring familial feelings to Ron and now Dave.

WHO DID THAT? WHOSE WORDS ARE BEING FOLLOWED? WHAT IS THE OUTCOME OF FOLLOWING THESE WORDS?

It is possible that L Ron Hubbard’s Scientology was a purposeful manipulation.

It certainly is worth considering. Look at the fruits.

GE is a Family Man = removing the “barrier” of the family instinct to Scientology/Ron

Bolivar = removing one’s conscience so Ron can get others to do his bidding against common laws of decency.

I believe he knew what he was doing. But I also believe he became mad and started to believe in all of it as true.
Brian | June 26, 2015 at 5:05 pm |

His purposeful deception came back to him with karmic exactitude. He sought to deceive and that deception destroyed him.

This is Dave’s future.
Brian | June 26, 2015 at 5:15 pm |

Also George, my beliefs before did not include what I feel now. Before I did not give it much thought, in 82 when I left. I was just done with the whole thing and passionate about getting back to my spiritual roots.

But now, with these blogs, I am giving more thought to it. It’s instructive to me and fun besides. 🙂

Thanks for asking George.
Brian | June 26, 2015 at 5:31 pm |

I think a book will be written about this. But here is another gem.

When Ron said that all critics are criminals because every time we researched this it always was true that we found crimes.

Ron knew he did not research this. Ron was not stupid. He knew that absolutes like this are completely ridiculous: all critics are criminal.

But what is the outcome of this statement?

It is to cause one’s sovereign capacity to reason and therefore see clearly being associated with criminality.

You are a criminal if you pull back the veil of deception and look.

Because Ron now has Altitude Instruction over us, he can now say the most outrageous statements and his hypnotized subjects, Scientologists, will never look at Ron with reason and question.

All critics are criminals is a HYPNOTIC COMMAND.

This statement is absurd and anyone who can believe it has been hypnotized.
Brian | June 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm |

Hey Oracle, how are you? Hope all is well.

My problem with Crowley’s “do what thou wilt is the whole of the law” is this:

It assigns one’s individual will as the WHOLE law. It elevates will to being a slave of personal desires. It does not take into account a higher standard by which individual will is to be governed.

Will is subservient to law. If decency and true spiritual growth is part of the equation.

Individual will is not the final truth: the whole of the law.

That is a formula for depravity. Crowely and Hubbard demonstrated the outcome of such a philosophy: infamy.

Gandhi and Martin Luther King on the other hand had their wills subservient to a higher calling. A higher law.

Ther wills were governed by love, not personal desire of doing what they wanted.

When will is not governed by wisdom, will can become destructive.

Gandhi and King = Cultural heroes and loved…… Living Dharma

Crowely and Hubbard = depravity and infamy…….. enemies of the Dharma
Friend | June 27, 2015 at 12:38 am |

Thank you @brian for your comment .. wills were governed by love, not personal desire of doing what they wanted .. that is right ..
tyler | June 27, 2015 at 8:05 am |

Well put Brian . And all reflective of an abundance or lack of humility and grace. Ego driven were Hubbard and Crowley and their creations and bitter ends display where that will get one.
The Oracle | June 27, 2015 at 12:54 pm |

Laughter! Great stories thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to know someone else had invisible friends too!
The Oracle | June 27, 2015 at 1:02 pm |

You LOVE to hate. Doesn’t really bother me at all. Kind of interesting actually.
The Oracle | June 27, 2015 at 1:17 pm |

I mean, in a magical sense when you are thinking about spells cast on people.
palehorsey | June 27, 2015 at 10:14 pm |

Dear Mark,
Thank you for this concise and astute observation. I often wish I could simply and genuinely float into the religious experience unchecked by thoughtful logic. What sheer joy! What ecstasy!

I deeply admire those who manage to find a balance between reality and religious hallucination. I wish I could do it.

Nancy
Path of Buddha | June 28, 2015 at 1:35 am |

Hi Brian,
Thanks for writing the excellent analysis. You make key points that lead me to ponder the issue. I certainly see the ego connection to his Altitude Instruction, the GE is a family Man information, and Bolivar.
I am interested in the quantitative conclusion regarding your 100% belief that he knew what he was doing. I have never tried to put a quantitative number to this. When listening to his tapes, I always noted his self-belief in his theories. It seemed so strong to me. At first I gave him authority which turned out to be misplaced. This is probably the single biggest reason that I never joined staff or the Sea Org. I always knew about his lack of scientific proof so I held back on full acceptance of his theories. I did not go on the first Maiden Voyage for OT VIII because I did not fully buy into even “Keeping Scientology Working”. I finally did go on the second Freewinds voyage but it was really the influence of two FSM’s.
I now look at Hubbard as a Mental Formation that developed in the wrong direction due to self-isolation. I think he was mentally bruised from childhood as a poor student. He could not grasp basic concepts so he developed an inner world of rebellion. These wrong views of self authority piled up into a massive wall in his mind. I picture him as walking around as a youth with Aleister Crowley’s books, leaning on them when he flunked his courses in college. He simply found bits and pieces of odd theories to fit his self-delusion. I think now that Hubbard’s greatest flaw was that he thought that he was superior but did not understand the childish simplicity of his views. For example, I was looking at Scientology 8-80 a few weeks ago. He goes into his theory of theta as the base of the electronic motor. This theory fails under critical review because Hubbard could not see that he was leaving himself open with lack of proof. I am reaching the 95% level in grading Hubbard on the issue of self awareness. I leave out 5% for his inner self-delusion which formed the basis for his errors. This is based on my belief in the stages of Karma that he experienced. His coarse Karma is easy to identify. His latent Karma is more difficult to measure. To be sure, he dropped into a lower realm due to his inability to see or understand the void.
Kind Regards,
GMW
Friend | June 28, 2015 at 7:58 am |

Will belongs to the tone level of a person or indivudual or creature .. it is high toned as love or low toned as hate .. Crowley or Hubbard did belong to they will as like everybody of us .. magic is a special thing .. not so much seen about in the last centuries .. but a magican goes with his tone level in all of his works .. like Merlin .. the last dragonfighter in history ..
Brian | June 28, 2015 at 9:30 am |

Ha ha, I still have invisible friends!
Brian | June 28, 2015 at 9:33 am |

Oracle, why is disagreeing with this statement and giving my own view hate?
Brian | June 28, 2015 at 9:42 am |

And I use reason and introspection on myself to understand. Then I communicate that outward to people. I do not see this as casting spells.

I just call it talking and sharing views. I may be wrong or I may be right. Magic has nothing to do with it.

There is nothing metaphysical about sharing ideas Oracle.
Brian | June 28, 2015 at 9:49 am |

Thanks Friend. I think this is an important point about Scientology. It’s downfall could be placed on Ron’s doorstep. He followed “do as thou wilt”.

His legacy has demonstrated the result of following such a doctrine.

When the individuated ego (selfishness) is the creator of “spiritual” law, suffering follows. “do as thou wilt” is potentially destructive dogma.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 1:06 pm |

I did not mean to imply that YOU were casting spells. LOVE to HATE isn’t even a roller coaster ride, it’s a hamster wheel. Once you can someone fix someone on that one, you can just keep them going in circles.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 1:19 pm |

I guess if I were to draw this out, I would draw a stick figure of a person, then another symbol which would be his tone level, holding onto a leash attached to another symbol called will? The will belonging to the tone level. The tone level belonging to the person by nature of a leash also. I get how you are seeing things. It is not the way I view it. But I get how you are seeing it and understanding it. Thank you for that, it gave me a wonderful idea!

“I will ____________

I will not ____________

I will ___________

I will not ___________”

Run repetitively as a squirrel process solo really indicates to me. I’m off to go do that.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 1:41 pm |

P.S. “I will” ingness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnNQM_9q-w
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 1:59 pm |

Did you ever think about surrendering of one’s will? Whenever you follow an order you are being willed by someone else?

This process I may be running a long time. It is good for understanding will ownership too. Which is your will, and which is someone else’s. You also have to first surrender your own will, before you can fall under someone else’s.

By the way, the ultimate “I will not” is to drop dead.

Also I beginning to see the willing on flows. Other’s will, as opposed to mine.

It’s running very nicely.

I think people that involved in Scientology, many of them, were running on Hubbard’s will. Currently Miscavige’s will. When a person decides they want to run on their own will, they regain control of their own will. Not everyone of course. But how many people do you see making their own bridge? Thinking of their own process’?

I think the whole idea that someone “blowing” = “something awfully wrong” is false. Sometimes people just regain their own want to be under their own will.

But will, yours and others, is a force / energy that makes things move.

Surrender of personal will is a choice.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm |

Maybe religion becomes abberrated to the degree that someone is expected to surrender to someone else’s will. “God’s will” or anyone else’s will. And then is it really God’s will or the minister’s? Can people differentiate? That said, religion has been used to implement social policies that have benefited everyone. I think the ten commandments are very good social policy.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 2:17 pm |

And, did you ever think about the fact that you didn’t have overts before you got involved in Scientology? I guarantee you, I could stand on any street corner and ask 100 strangers if they have overts and they would all say no.

Ot the fact that if you get involved with another Church, you didn’t have sins before someone told you they were sins?

That overts and sins are willed on you to some extent in a purpose to establish policies?
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 2:38 pm |

I mean, before the policy “Thou shalt not steal” was agreed upon, stealing was not considered a sin.

You take a look at the wall to wall policy in the green volumes and red volumes and tell me if NOT “committing an overt” as a Scientologist is even possible. ????

Right now in the that organization, truly the only “overt” you can really commit is to NOT surrender to and live under the will of David Miscavige.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 5:27 pm |

I mean, before the policy “Thou shalt not steal” was agreed upon, stealing was not considered a sin. In fact, the current Scientology Organization seems to think it is an ability. To steal your family, your friends, your reputation, your time, your trust, your faith, your hope, your unused payments on account, etc etc.
The Oracle | June 28, 2015 at 9:24 pm |

Bearing false witness is also an ability gained in the Scientology Organization under “the lie drill”.

It causes me to wonder, “What if “sins” are really abilities? They can be if you view them as such. Instead of contempt for your fellow man, you can admire them! It enables you to even forgive!

What is “evil” I think is personal consideration. Most people view any act that does not fall within social policy as an “ev il”. Can even be drinking and gambling. Entire groups can form around an intolerance for something. And they do.

I don’t mind if it someone else decides they can no longer pledge allegiance to the policies of a group or culture. Or think with them. I do not see that as evil.

I think there is really only one evil act. Pretense that amounts to treason. Betrayal after trust. When a person PRETENDS to be in full agreement with a policy or rule but has hidden agendas and so misleads through false information. I think in the Scientology Organization this is called, “public relations” when it is not.

What I think is evil about Miscavige is the pretense. The guy at the events, the guy in the interview, the guy hanging out being “cool” on the Freewinds at the Bday parties, the guy the staff see (because they are not allowed to know anything), that guy does not exist. Miscavige the Sea org Member does not exist. He is not there on the same terms as one other person. Miscavige the Scientologist does not exist. He hasn’t made on clear and he is blown off the bridge and untrained. Miscavige the COB does not even exist, he does not make choices for the organization in it’s best interest. Miscavige the husband does not really exist. His wife has been buried for years. Lately it has become apparent that David “let him die” Miscavige the son does not even exist. He really does not exist as we think of him existing. And once you figure that out you can really let it go. It was all pretense.

He exists somewhere as something, but it isn’t as anyone or in any place that we have looked.
singanddanceall | June 28, 2015 at 10:29 pm |

Altitude Instruction.

Is this not the same as Ethos?

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/12/21/classical-rhetoric-101-the-three-means-of-persuasion/

“If you wish to persuade, you need to establish credibility and authority with your audience.”

Authority being the same as Altitude which LRH surely did throughout his lectures and books.

I’d consider Hubbard to be a Sophist, in a bad way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist

although he said the “work was free, so keep it so”

ROFLMAO

He also said, when central takes over,

Auditors unit. How’s that working out. ROFLMAO

.
Friend | June 29, 2015 at 4:47 am |

As a child I had said, I follow my heart .. which should say, I follow that what I love .. this for what I had good affinity, liked it, enjoyed it .. but it is something more .. I can not do it alone .. so it is also a point to share and communicate about ..

I think LRH did it in his youth a similiar way .. doubtless he wanted a better world for everyone .. but somewhere he lost his way .. he did put orders and policy in work which did not fit a basic purpose .. maybe his own, but he has forgotten to say that to us .. he flunks completely with his introduced ethics .. I mean, you can not tell an OT what ethics is, because he would not be an OT if his ethics were out .. so LRH could never be an OT .. he has something misunderstood about the way one can be real OT .. if it is possible, you will fail with LRH ethics rules ..
Al Brown | June 29, 2015 at 5:45 am |

All good points Oracle. Creflo Dollar lives down the road from me in Fayette County Georgia and he will withhold the fact that he knows some people can’t differentiate between his will and God’s will. If people became able to differentiate that point he would have to give up his mansions and his 65 million dollar Gulfstream jet he bought recently. BTW, Creflo beats the pants off COB in practicing his trade on all points. I was thinking of posting a video of Creflo just to show y’all what I mean but I’ve decided I’m not going to post any more videos on Marty’s blog unless it is something like the Motels or something.
Friend | June 29, 2015 at 5:46 am |

There is something more to say .. but it is an extended work .. so I can only give it short ..

When I studied LRH in a long run .. I found he spoke about mind but he meant the body mind (whatever this is) .. whatever, he said mind .. and that is myself (both the analytical and the reactive) .. has not a lot to do with my body cells or cell membranes which can have really charge ..

So he mixed up in Dianetics two things as one thing.

In book two “Science of Survival” he went really complicated, because he did never clear from whom the emotion is .. so if you learn from LRH about Tone Scale .. you learn again about body emotions .. nor yours ..

You learn only that a tone level below 2.0 is entheta and above that it is increasing theta .. he learned later that there are always two tone levels in conflict to have charge .. but has never explained it really successfull, so nobody who studies now the Basics will ever get that really .. although it is part of his work.

The whole Bridge is basically handle and clearing conflicting emotions. But it is not said as stable datum from LRH. He did hang on his idea of reactive mind .. he came not through to a clear point of statement and invented than later OT III .. here you have conflicting emotions .. only that you have to think about other beings (beings which had never existed) ..

LRH says nowhere how do you get such beings in connection with you. Why you have them in your space .. why this beings are enjoy the game of disturbing you .. and why you can clear such guys so easy .. you tell them simply accidents and they enjoy life again after 76 Mio years .. how stupid this guys were .. or how powerful they are .. interestingly ..

World Clearing is an action of an hour .. if it would be the truth ..
Al Brown | June 29, 2015 at 5:49 am |

YES. I started leaving the church in 2007 when I realized two things. One, that every Scientologist I was connected to in business was trying to steal from me. Two, that they were all learning that trade from the Church.
Al Brown | June 29, 2015 at 7:45 am |

Creflo of course says God wants him to have all that money and God wants him to have the Gulfstream and God wants everybody to give him some more money. Please donate.
Brian | June 29, 2015 at 11:29 am |

Hey Oracle, I am still not sure what you mean.
The Oracle | June 29, 2015 at 11:43 am |

Laughter!
The Oracle | June 29, 2015 at 11:50 am |

I went to go watch some of his videos. He is good at what he does!
Path of Buddha | June 29, 2015 at 5:56 pm |

Hi Brian,

“All critics are criminals is a HYPNOTIC COMMAND.”

I see your point on this. I think Hubbard had a way of making circular arguments. If you do not accept that “All critics are criminals”, you are not part of his group. The fascism idea has a sense of belonging based on alienation.
Another example I remember was something like “The agonized future of every man and woman on this planet depends on what you do with Scientology”. Hubbard is issuing an hypnotic command to pull a person into his little group. Hubbard said essentially the same thing in his OT VII Bulletin. As I recall, it had something to do with “your role in eternity.”
Hubbard put “Serenity of beingness” at the top of the Tone 40 bridge.
This was another hypnotic command. Hubbard is saying that only he can give the instructions to reach this state. It implies thus that one is an eternal slave to him. Actually serenity of beingness is a rather low state. I’m surprised he kept it at the top the bridge and made it so difficult to reach. I think he had it at OT XXVII or something like that.
Even Hubbard’s long, expanded Tone Scale was an attempt to “glue” a person to his philosophy. I took a long, hard look at the tone scale when I was studying dependent origination of causes. The Tone scale is just a linear idea which goes from 0 to 40. It is very Newtonian.
I actually started to put a number to the weakness of the tone scale. I estimated that “Serenity of beings” is 1/37th of the factors necessary for spiritual progress. This explains why auditing seems to work at the beginning but gets less effective as one climbs the bridge. Pity Hubbard put such a high monetary value of his technology. It was a big mistake.

Much Metta,
GMW
The Oracle | June 30, 2015 at 3:35 am |

“The truth will set you free”, unless you tell the truth about Scientology. They ask, “Did you tell all?” and on the other hand ,”Did you say anything?” (to the press or police). It is a one way street. Not so unusual. But they insist that you “confess” on the left hand for lying, and on the right hand for telling the truth. I mean, you know, it is a product and not everyone wants to buy it.
Friend | June 30, 2015 at 3:49 am |

You should consider “I will not” is also a will .. not different to “I will” ..

Your process should be .. run “I will” from tone level 4.0 down in various steps to tone level 0.1 .. you will cross at tone level 2.0 from alone to ” I will not” .. but it is still considered as your will ..

You should change your process to “I will will” and “I will not will” but the benefit of it may be small .. because it is always directed under your will

Crawley felt himself as like Hubbard did as a genius .. someone who has considered himself as the only one who did realise the truth of him or of others .. so on, they created they own will .. which should be considered as a tone level 4.0 or higher decision .. but both of them did run it in the way of “I will not” .. that is the tragic of a lot of people .. so they run easily below tone level 2.0 .. but hold up they will as the only truth ..

A good Buddha would never do that .. he would try to align all wills to one as a momentary decision .. which is good leadership .. it must be free for future changes ..

When you read Science of Survival, you will find that LRH says that theta is above 2.0 and below it is entheta .. very simple said .. following is all “I will not” stated as entheta .. but this is not right, were never right, and will never be right .. a person at tone level 0.1 will not live anymore ..
phil scott | June 30, 2015 at 12:47 pm |

Oliver Stone’s son, whatshisname, was interviewing one of the latter day remote viewers.
I posted der following comment.

Herloslsky was accurate… it is an ability in my view that anyone can develop, it is also an ability many if not most people use everyday without realizing it, and for many reasons shut down without knowing why or what it was they were shutting down.

There can be too much information and chaos even if you know what is going on. That is my guess why Morehouse moved on, most likely to areas Mr Stone alluded to… the use of symbology to connect masses of people to the wrong targets so to speak… a not so lost dark art.

————-

In summary, a person (any person) locates spiritually where his attention is (the key concept of it all, stated here in that fragment of a sentence.)…

…most of us have experienced that with old girl or boyfriends to one degree or another, we knew the target however it was safe… in the US army’s co-ordinate system the person did not know where the target was… similarly with symbols.

For a person without any ‘higher’ or shall we say beneficent ‘targets’ that he clings to, possibly such as the Buddha consciousness or whatever (a very wide range here, I have avoided mentioning some of the more obvious ones)… that person can be led to target, and locate in what some will call the dark side.

Does any of that exist? Life will unfold for every person over time, then death, and the person will know what his attentions have brought him.

Threatening note: The ancient Aztec turtles gods, a thundering hoard of them, will come and crap on the head of anyone who chooses to delete this post… it is a natural phenomena. something like winning a Darwin award.

Peace
Brian | June 30, 2015 at 1:44 pm |

Hey George,

Indeed, all of those absolute statements of how fabulous, unique and powerful he was induced a hypnotic command.

One of the realizations I am grateful for in these blogs is the discovery, in my view, of the dangerous and destructive result of agreeing to this one idea: The Only Way.

Once a person has agreed to their path being the “only way” the natural next step is to denigrate and demonize other way.

This doctrine is the theological and ideological source of human conflict.

Ron was sure expert at creating enemies, because all those that are not in the “only way” thought club are somehow less valid or even demons.

Regarding the tone scale, I agree. there was a time that I was shedding my Scientology mind filters and I was so glad to dump the tone scale.

In my view, the tone scale was also used as a weapon against people. Ron’s idea of homosexuality comes to mind.

I started seeing that I was getting this very visceral reaction to always seeing people through the “100% Standard Tech” of the tone scale. When I dumped that mental habit I felt so much better.

L Ron Hubbard was not equipped to evaluate human emotions. I believe now him to be an extremely unstable person emotionally. He put sympathy below hate on the tone scale. That single revelation is pure depravity and a psycho-manipulation that leeds to divorcing emotions from peoples pain.

Warm Regards,
Brian
Brian | June 30, 2015 at 2:10 pm |

Great points George.

Certainly my statement of 100% is just an opinion. But I do feel that he was aware of his ability to manipulate. And he did.
Being a constant liar is in fact pure manipulation. As a pathological liar he actually sees the virtue in lying in my view. He probably sees telling the truth as a “Marcab Conspiracy” or some goody two shoes theedy weedy Jesus moral.

“I am not interested in wog morality” LRH

I think in the beginning he was a combination of being interested in metaphysics, with no moral rudder, and fabulist.

As he started going within with auditing he started finding ways of relieving people from basic thought forms of suffering.

I believe he was sincere in enjoying helping people, yet he used lies and manipulation to increase membership.

He spread some workable therapies while at the same time was aware of manipulating people with Altitude Instruction.

Power and money. Those were his true god.

When I look around at fundamentalism in general, it seems membership is exactly like Scientologist’s membership: Willing to believe anything said from the hypnotic operator.

But in the end for Ron, I believe he believed in the “gorilla in the back seat of the taxi” as real. Then he went mad. Screaming at “gorillas” with the name BT.

He deceived and that cause of deception destroyed him. As it should. He started to believe his own lies about himself.He payed the piper. Maybe still paying.

Metaphysical power was his goal. Cause over things and people. When power is the goal trouble lurks.

I do think he knew what he was doing. I believe he used his Altitude to control other’s minds. There is an evil to that.
Brian | June 30, 2015 at 3:45 pm |

Hey singanddanceall,

Indeed, the art of persuasion is the same thing. Maybe with a bit of difference in Ron’s case. Ron was attracted to the deeper art of manipulating the mind: hypnotism.

This understanding of Ron seems to be a resolution for me at this point. What we see as Scientology is the result of his hypnotic manipulations.

Altitude Instruction was his master plan.

Be Well,
Brian

P.S.
“The work is free, keep it so.”

Anyone who believes that is most definitely under a hypnotic trance.
Path of Buddha | June 30, 2015 at 4:19 pm |

“As a pathological liar he actually sees the virtue in lying in my view.”

I had an inkling at one time that he was “Bhavamara”. This translates from Pali as “the evil one of becoming”. It makes sense. He put people on an endless treadmill related to samsara. Even the OT VIII document just keeps going in a circle. He is going to catch telepathic beings, so he says.
Let alone his desire to be in the role of the anti-Christ.
I enjoy your analysis. It helps me to see his personality from a refreshing point of view.

Much Metta,
GMW
Path of Buddha | June 30, 2015 at 5:20 pm |

Hi Brian,
“He put sympathy below hate on the tone scale.”

BINGO!

I noticed that as well and I agree. That single point speaks volumes about him and his philosophy. In fact, that one manipulation places him in an exact location in the history of philosophy.
If sympathy is placed below hate, then sympathy would be a “root” of hate. This is a total contradiction. In fact, it is almost as serious as his confusion of the Buddhist “no soul” with his idea of the thetan. One of the most profound elements in the universe is “mudita” which translates from Pali as sympathetic joy. Hubbard believed that he could solve all of thought by tracing the exteriorization of the thetan according to his rules. Somehow he misplaced the idea of hate which really stems from the idea of “ill will”.
This distorts the relationship of ill will and sympathy.
As I recall, Hubbard made a big point about how bad sympathy was. I recall in one of his taped lectures that he implied it was even like a sickness to sympathize. This is probably related to the fascism which is implicit in Scientology. I can see Hubbard’s point. Sympathy can be misused, but placing it below hate takes the idea too far.
I calculated, as noted before, that “serenity of being” was about 1/37th of the requisites for spiritual progress, IMHO. Now, Hubbard had 27 OT levels. Thus (27 x 37 = 999). Let’s call it 1,000 and say that you would need to be OT 1,000 which is OTM before you could make it to the top of the bridge. This is about $20 million dollars, I figure. Therein is the reason the IAS never stops asking for donations.

Much Metta,
GMW
Ben Robins | July 3, 2015 at 12:24 am |

do you believe that all religions can lead to peak experiences?
The Oracle | July 3, 2015 at 3:35 am |

I don’t think so. You are giving me your items and denying me my items. I didn’t even need qual / correction. I never implied ” I will not” is not a will. I did not need a suggested cram. I never asked for a C/S. I don’t need to be bypassed. These are all your figure figure. You don’t even bother to find out if I think with the tone scale ideas. It is just an enforcement and biblical in you mind. I think with the CDEI scale. And the fact that you are enforcing things on me that have no biblical significance to me. I’m curious. You are down in the enforce band and running qual correction. You will not accept my items and push items on me that are not mine. And you do it with a “know best” attitude.I think the tone scale is very faulty. But not altogether with out value. Just, too many generalities. What I said stands, even though you made every attempt to discredit and devalue my thinking.
The Oracle | July 3, 2015 at 3:38 am |

I also do not have any purpose to be “a good budda”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AA64eCt2zs
Path of Buddha | July 4, 2015 at 5:43 am |

Oracle,
Very well written analysis, especially about Miscavige.
The picture of Miscavige and Tom Cruise at the top right of this blog says 10,000 words to me. I always notice the strain in Cruise’s neck. You can easily see that Miscavige has some sort of strange power over him. Cruise is leaning in to hear the words.
I now think that Miscavige is a variant of Hubbard but with different charismatic strengths. IMHO, he thinks he is fully exteriorized from his small body, waiting for a better model.
Friend | July 4, 2015 at 6:39 am |

Sorry @The Oracle when I got my idea not through .. I share your meaning about the CDEI scale .. no problem.. I share also your meaning about the Tone Scale .. no problem ..

Oracle: The answer given by a god to a question asked by a mortal supplicant .. it is a greek religious act .. something thrown over a table or the floor and then interpret the symbols in it .. the wikings and others did it the same way ..

You are right when you say the Tone Scale is a lot of generalities .. but it has some use if you can obey others .. my basic observation is that one has more than one Tone Level at minimum at once .. and that that is the reason why the E-Meter do respond .. one can awake from his beliefs to a point where he recognise the whole sum of his believing ..

You use the CDEI Scale, I too, but it is used from LRH for estimate the state of the ARC .. to say that I tried to enforce something on you is not right in my view .. have nothing enforced .. no reason for it .. it was all about “I will” .. which is a basic of this thread about religion .. so I think ..
The Oracle | July 4, 2015 at 1:40 pm |

Peace. I’m grateful for our conversations. I’m not too concerned with a person’s tone level. I’ve known “low toned” people who are fair, just, loyal and honest. Never treasonous. I’ve known “high toned” people that were dishonest, treasonous, greedy, wobbly, and snotty. I’ve known “low toned” people that have managed a lot of love and performed a lot of good. I’ve known “High toned” people that have very limited care abilities and are total liabilities. It is not as cut and dry as written. I don’t think you can judge a person or think you know them or their promise based on tone level. Character and policy of the person dictates what you can expect from them.
That is my understanding. That is what I have found to be true.

For the latter part of his life, Hubbard was in “hiding” and nobody thought the less of him. Mary Sue went PTS and ended up as a criminal, nobody pointed fingers or dared to mention it. I don’t think the tone scale tech or the things written in S.O.S. worked for Hubbard either. Look who took over the Church. Who in their right mind would trust David Miscavige? Even as he spent decades in the tone level of punishing bodies people were obedient.

I haven’t met one Scientologist who can really make that thinking their own and rely upon on it to make a reasonable decision. It hasn’t worked for anybody that I have seen.

Yes, you can see people rise in tone or drop in tone. You don’t have to be a mind reader to see it. All it really tells you about someone is they rise or drop in tone.
The Oracle | July 4, 2015 at 1:56 pm |

When I was on HQS and got to the part where you have to do these tone scale drills, you know, go out and pretend to be doing a survey while you evaluate the person? I said, “Hey, this is kind of 1.1 isn’t it? I mean, this is sneaky and dishonest. Right away you jump in someone’s face and LIE. “I’m doing a survey…” and, I don’t feel good about that.”

So, I got a pass on that with out having to go to do the drill.

But I saw these other students just trot right out there in “enthusiasm” and come back grinning that they could spot a 1.1..
The Oracle | July 4, 2015 at 2:55 pm |

I did think it was interesting that to be considered a “Qualified Scientologist”, you had to be willing to run out on the street and lie to people to get something signed off on your check sheet. I mean, I knew right there, there were potential storms in the culture. Because of the people that didn’t think twice about doing that. Being shifty and having hidden agendas.
The Oracle | July 4, 2015 at 3:11 pm |

Another thing about tone level, the auditors are forced by the mere technology to shift into sudden attacks on the pre clears. You know, you think of a counselor as having some mercy, compassion. I don’t think you can heal a person you are trained to attack. The minute the P.C. wants to unload about some misery, you know, you lure the P.C. in, make “safe”, “Is the room O.K.? Is it alright if I audit you? blah blah blah..” Then the P.C. hits this charged area of something that happened to them and the first thing the auditor does is attack. “What did you do? Did you do something similar? Do you have a with hold? ”

I mean, it’s a smack down. The auditor turns into a prosecutor at the drop of the hat. I mean, you can sit and watch the auditors tone level go up and down depending on what you say.

You really can’t complain in an auditing session without your auditor getting offended. Needing to bust you on some issue. I learned after my second auditing session not to complain about anyone or anything. To keep it light and cheerful.

All that stuff you felt bad about? The charge you had on others? You have to put that to the side on total suppress. If you bring it up your auditor will shape shift into another being. The tone level in the room is going to drop as soon as the auditor gets whiff of a transgression.
The Oracle | July 5, 2015 at 1:23 am |

I see what you mean.
Friend | July 5, 2015 at 6:32 am |

@The Oracle: Peace. I’m grateful for our conversations .. thank you for coming in peace with me .. thank you .. I provoke always anybody if he misinterprets my communications to something else .. so in your case I had some times to think .. @Brian helped me out at the beginning ..

Again, I share your views about CDEI and Tone Scale well .. your observations are as like my own .. a low tone may be much more sane than a high tone .. so is the evaluation from the church or LRH wrong ..

But see also what I have tried to say in the first place .. “Will” and “Not will” depends on the Tone Scale not the CDEI Scale .. it depends on the CDEI if you fail .. so you can go from Curiosity to Desire .. which means you go at Curiosity from 4.0 down to 0.1 (or whatever) .. and start Desire again with 4.0 .. and you do that on the Tone Scale always .. whereever you did fail, you pick up the next lower CDEI level and go then uptone with that .. quite normal .. but it follows always an ARX .. surely ..

LRH has not described that successfully .. thera are only two lectures on the SHSBC .. where he descripes KUCDEINF .. today called KUCDEINR ..

In this lectures LRH despribes basically the whole Bridge and that what is to do for a being .. but you must understand that really before it makes sense.

A being went down the KUCDEINR scala very often .. his new curiosity is maybe very low toned in his intentions .. which means his ARC is broken down to a desaster .. and a low toned person may hang up on a cuurent break .. but not ended ..

You see what I mean? The Tone Level depends on your position on the KUCDEINR Scale .. and your behaviour depends on how often you did run the whole cycle through KUCDEINR .. how often you were False .. and how often did you force you to be Right again .. how often did you destroy your own ARC ..

So you can have a person low-tone but in good behaviour .. and a up-tone person in bad behaviour .. this is what happens in Scientology today ..
Friend | July 5, 2015 at 8:24 am |

The highest level in all past Scientology is handling your ARCX line .. next is to handle your SerFac .. but it means your reason why you did put in new ARC after you gave up your former ARC .. you mislead your goals ..

This is what LRH once said .. but he himself did fail on this .. he did not conquer the SerFac .. Sigmund Freud did also fail on this .. he knew about such intentions, but did not explain it very much .. LRH did later, but he has never found a solution .. he came then up with OT III ..

The Bridge and its targets misses it itself .. it is that you are available for ARC breaks after generating a SerFac .. but you have build up a SerFac out of ARC breaks .. this is not part of the Bridge .. and OT III is a bad solution for it .. it is an ARC break dramatizing solution .. current scientology is not interested in solving this problem .. Miscavige and his minions do not understand anything about .. but says that LRH has everything solved .. but certainly he has not ..

Miscavige can go on forever to say that you have to be certain about your Clear before you can reach OT .. stupid but workable .. but truth is if you would really catch Clear you would already be OT .. unfortunately you would never do OT III after that .. it would be pure nonsens .. so there is no OT in scientology .. they dramatize all only ARCX .. and protect their own SerFac .. and this makes and gives a high tone level .. always ..

i work on it to find the why ..
The Oracle | July 5, 2015 at 11:44 am |

I heard through the grapevine last week, (someone connected to C.C.L.A.) that there is a “major flap” going on in the Church right now with the “Tom Cruise Camp”. Apparently, the “Let him die” story didn’t go over too well with Tom’s Mum. Laughter!
Al Brown | July 5, 2015 at 4:36 pm |

Oracle, thanks for bringing this up. That happened to me 25 years ago. A Class VIII auditor nearly executed me once with resentment (1.3 tone) in response to some grief (.5 tone) I hit on in session based on something someone had done to me. It really surprised me and embarrassed me in that session. Rarely did I ever get grief. But I thought I should have been allowed that one occasion. You say auditors are trained to act that way. I never thought about that.
The Oracle | July 5, 2015 at 10:10 pm |

Well, the thing is, about “items”. This is very real to me. But there are these correction lists about items. “Has an item been denied you? Were you given a wrong item? Were you given someone else’s item? Has an item been denied you? blah blah blah.

This happens all the time as “standard tech” right there in the auditing session!

Example, Let’s take the P.C. who is upset about something that happened to them. This is their item if they start to talk about it. Then what the auditor does, does not accept the item but switches the item. It is NOT what was done to you, it is what YOU did to others that becomes the new focus. And, this item is forced on you.

I mean, if you want someone to confess just keep notes about what you think they could have to confess and take it up in a “confessional” session.

It’s goes crazy like this (made up example).

P.C. “He knocked me across the room.”

O.K. you handle the arc X. Then, the auditor wants to know if you did something similar. So what if you did? Is that supposed to make you feel alright about it happening to you? Does that make it right? Now you are on someone else’s item, the person you knocked across the room. You know, you would RATHER be talking about the person you knocked across a room. But it got dragged out of you that you let your sorry ass get knocked across a room and for a minute you admit it, you admit you were vulnerable in some way and overwhelmed with force. Then what happens? You get hit with some force from the auditor! The “item” gets switched on you right there. You are given someone else’s item. You don’t even know of the person you knocked across the room even remembers!

And here is where your “Item” sits with the Church. You are supposed to get the idea YOU caused it all. You caused everything that ever happened to you, and you caused everything to did to someone else. YOU are total cause.

And this really I think, gets people tripping. I get the idea of responsibility. But there is such a thing as admitting other’s cause which has to do with granting them beingness too.

If two people are in a room, and someone gets knocked across a room, both people had something to do with that. I mean, it does not take a math genius! Maybe one of the caused it just by being in the room.

But it breeds this mind set that everyone else is irrelevant. And others have been relevant. This in itself is a “wrong item” that is drilled constantly. And I think why you end up with this culture of people that seem so oblivious to the wants and needs of others.

And then, the rightness of the P.C. is NEVER addressed, that is called “justification”. But you know, you could at least ask what problem the P.C. was trying to solve and give him that. Nope, the P.C. is left to sit in shame and remorse. I don’t think that is very therapeutic.

I don’t mean to suggest I have not had many gains in auditing. Even O/W write ups. But the auditing I had gains from were not interrogations, switching items on me, forcing me to think with items that would be important to the auditor or the organization. Those are their items.

And you know, I did live my life for years walking on egg shells because I had to think with the Church’s items. I’d go out to a nightclub with a group of friends, everyone would decide to go to the airport and head for Montego Bay for a week. I wouldn’t go. I would just be thinking, “This is going to come up in a session somehow and the Church isn’t going to like it. If I get on the plane the next thing I’ll be smoking a joint and this vacation might end up costing me 15K not to mention God knows what else.”

I think when people leave and say they are “decompressing”, they are trying to sort out what THEIR items are and what someone else’s items are. Because wrong items and other people’s items get laid on you 24/7 in that culture.

Sitting on the beach in Montego Bay smoking a joint with all of my friends WAS MY ITEM. But how can you tell someone in the Church that?

They really don’t want to know what your items are. They give you items. You are supposed to consume without question or protest.

I honestly think the Church is in the condition it is because it is a crime to have fun in that culture. I think I saw a definition about “fun” in there that was very bad. “purposeless something.” Another wrong item. “Fun” is taboo in that culture and if you had some fun you’d better not share it.

Anyway Al, it sounds like that auditor just denied you your item.
The Oracle | July 6, 2015 at 1:53 am |

I mean, just think about the uniforms. Who’s item is that? How many people went out and purchased those and strutted around in those before they joined staff? Who went down to Hollywood Boulevard where they buy those things, and purchased one for their closet before joining the Sea Org? That’s the U.S. Navy’s item.
Merrymaker | July 6, 2015 at 3:08 am |

What you’ve written here, Marty, is profound – so well put!
The Oracle | July 6, 2015 at 4:53 am |

I don’t really like to talk about magic too much. People have a real protest read about it. It is another dimension that parallels Scientology in way you can not see unless you are viewing Scientology as magic.

But for the few years I got into the mind set, that I caused everything, I attracted people to me that depended on me to cause everything. The good the bad and the ugly. I realized I was inventing the needy. It had an adverse effect on people. I was now empowering them by totally empowering myself. It had a negative underflow. I had to shift gears. There was something very unholy about it.

I think you are much more beneficial to the people around them if you help them to be at cause, if you lift them up.

Humility is a very powerful force. You can move that force under someone else and boost them into the atmosphere into places they never dreamed of visiting.
The Oracle | July 6, 2015 at 5:46 am |

I can kind of see how Hubbard invented the needy, (while convincing them they were super beings) and in their weakened state, Miscavige came along and broke them.

But you see these people that kind of had some understanding that every relationship was a two way street??? But in Scientology they laid down on that, and did not see where they had to figure in and add their own dynamic or reason or ethics. I mean, they just laid down and thought if they did everything they were told they would wake up in heaven, and, spiritually supreme over others.

I just never had that purpose. I always knew I had to be on my toes and take care of myself. So, I did not set myself up for a loss.

Scientology is like any other mind game you get into. If you do not get the ideas, you can not maneuver in the game as a player. You can not argue with the rules. You have to understand it to win at it. There were pit falls. People were set up for losses. People were set up for wins. I had a lot of wins just getting the ideas and working around the arrangements, which are very musical.

One of the reasons I have supported Marty as a friend, is that he entered himself as an important equation. You usually do that in every relationship..

.Miscavige’s only power is in the people that will lay down and spread. That is a very fragile power base and why it vanishes daily before his eyes. I mean, he’s got flying monkeys.
The Oracle | July 6, 2015 at 5:50 am |
Brian | July 6, 2015 at 2:15 pm |

Hey George,

Your thoughts got me to think and theorize:

Ron was all about being cause. Hate could be considered cause. An outflow of energy towards something or someone.

When we experience sympathy we are in receptive mode (effect) receiving
the experience of someone else and sharing with their burden so to speak.

Sympathy, empathy and compassion are words that represent the process by which human beings feel ourselves in each other.

We experience a direct resonance with other people and a closeness.

In my spiritual tradition it is sympathy,empathy and compassion which is the path of action (karma yoga) that leads to higher states of being.

Loving thy neighbor as thyself is the essence of this practice. We call this state the Christ Conscious state. In other words we see our oneness with all of life, thus the words “God Realization.”

Since Ron was actually denigrated these states of being with concepts like:

” love and understanding is a Marcab conspiracy”
“sympathy below hate on the tone scale”

He could very easily be awarded the moniker “anti Christ.”

In esoteric terms Christ is a state of being. It is that state of being which perceives the unity of all life and is conscious of all life as itself. In this state only love exists for all. It is pure compassion, sympathy and empathy.

Since Ron hated the idea of the unity of all life (Christ Consciousness) and elevated hate above these beautiful qualities, I most definitely assign him the title he himself assigns himself:

ANTI CHRIST

There is a metaphysical evil in very many aspects of Ron. Just look at the results.
Brian | July 6, 2015 at 2:18 pm |

But my present favorite title for Ron which reveals his intent and process is:

Hypnotic Operator
Brian | July 6, 2015 at 3:01 pm |

I’ve thought similarly George, seeing Ron in a metaphysical light.

The records show that he was interested in channeling other beings. He was trying to bring about with Parsons, Babylon (moonchild), during a sex magic ritual.

A moonchild in this context is best described as an Thelemic messiah, a magic homonculus monster child along the general lines of “Rosemary’s Baby.”

My lineage warns of this sort of metaphysical dabbling. If there are other universes, other worlds populated by beings of varying degrees of development, like all spiritual masters speak about…………….

then

L Ron Hubbard, in my view, was in contact with lower regions (universes) that matched his development: selfish and hungry for power.

This is not so far fetched if these things are experienced or believed in as true.

Ron wielded a negative metaphysical power. He was truly the enemy of the Dharma. He was a-Dharmic.

Only a negative dark being could place sympathy below hate on the tone scale or betray every friend and family member and be a pathological liar.

Maybe Ron did have beings bothering him. He invited them in. Sometimes you get what you ask for.

Just a thought.

Warm Regards,
Brian
Path of Buddha | July 6, 2015 at 7:34 pm |

Hi Brian,

“But my present favorite title for Ron which reveals his intent and process is:
Hypnotic Operator”

I like Hypnotic Operator and I see it from two perspectives. First of all, I think Hubbard had erroneous observations or self-delusions. This would be his internal “Hypnotic Operator”. In this mental situation, he could see ill as good. Thus he would get into a mode of “the end justifies the means.” Once he convinced himself of that, hate could be below sympathy and compassion could be distorted. His experiences in life could have easily triggered this state. I remember Hubbard told the story of jumping off a high gate to tackle a bully. Now some would argue that the bully deserved it. In the end, it does not matter because delusions of thought, perception and views would follow Hubbard from that point. Hubbard was setting himself up to control other people. So I think he first had to sort of hypnotize himself.
Following his victories and failures, he would next enter a stage of inflated ego development. He would estimate himself as being of a higher order. Unfortunately, the real world would always counter his claims. In other words, he went through flunk after flunk. Now his mind would have further inflated itself to greater and greater self-delusion. So he claimed to be a nuclear physicist and a genius. He claimed he healed himself and inflated his war record and other details. He would have done this to protect his self-delusion.
Now I see your idea of the external “Hypnotic Operator”. In order to feed his delusions of superiority, he would build an internal mass of conceit. From this conceit, he would look down on others and develop his hypnotic skills. The development of his hypnotic skills would now take top priority. From this point of view, science could be dismissed by him. He did not need scientific proof because his charisma and his hypnotic skills would create followers. He announces a purpose which is broad enough such as “clear the planet”. His technology does not work but he does not care. His mission is to take over other minds. At this point he criticizes everyone and everything. He is now a toad loaded with self absorption. Now he needs a hook. The hook that he chooses is the promise of eternal life to his followers. He does not have a technology to do it, but that does not matter to him. All that matters is “Hypnotic Operator”.
This also explains why his technology is just stringing together bits and ideas from other such as Freud and Crowley. It does not need to make sense in total. It can have contradictions because he is hiding from himself the fact that he has erroneous observations as a starting point. So he puts something low order like “serenity of beings” at the top of his bridge and he makes it impossible to reach for his average follower. Does he care? No, not really. He is not even trying to be consistent. I always wondered how Hubbard could be so stupid to suggest that he was the Buddha or Metteyya. The answer I found was that he could not, because of his conceit, see that someone else could have a deeper knowledge. Thus Hubbard had to develop little mental tricks of “hypnotic operators” such as exteriorization to justify his claims. So easy to say Gotama Buddha went clear “just like that” and ascribe it to the emergence of a thetan. He tried to be consistent on his own faulty assumptions and that was his undoing in the end when he chased the BT’s with electrical charge. I re-read Scientology 8-80 and I am convinced that he really believed that his analysis of electricity was correct. He really did believe that all scientists were wrong and that he was right. He really did believe that he was superior to Kant. He really did believe that the souped up e-mter was blowing away the entities. He really did believe that he could return as the anti-Christ. Of course, he could believe. He had self-delusion and erroneous views which went un-corrected throughout his life. He could hurt himself on a motor cycle and claim that he was a great OT. How could a great OT crash in the dirt on an island and break a rib?
I must admit that I did get something out of Scientology. I enjoyed early auditing and some of the basic courses. I will always remember the wins of the PC’s I audited as a class IV auditor. Two of these never stopped thanking me. So there was good. But Hubbard, in the end, fell for his own delusions.
Thanks Brian for your great, great analysis. I really enjoy your derived terms and conclusions.
Much Metta,
GMW
Al Brown | July 6, 2015 at 7:56 pm |

Thanks Oracle. I see what you mean about items.
The Oracle | July 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm |

Oversize and heavy items may require additional postage.
The Oracle | July 7, 2015 at 3:59 am |

Well, I’m expanded grade 2 and I haven’t handled all of my ser facs either.

I think it needs to be a goal or personal purpose to work on. There is I guy I met in the Independent movement who really knows his stuff on this score. There are many, many processes to run. And he knows them all. I have noticed he does not have any ser facs either. Frank Davis.

Lord knows if I couldn’t see the wrongness in others I would go into a royal panic. Especially if the driver of the car is driving through red lights (really happened). That would be very scary for me. You have this grade chart and at clear the awareness is characteristic is “conditions”.

I like to know what condition I am in and what condition others are in too. If I see a funky condition like treason in someone, I am seeing wrongness. I have personal codes which compel me to respond. Otherwise, I would just feel like a ghost. So I have ser facs.

“If I denied myself any of the pain I could not believe in my own ecstasy.”

William Butler Yeats

The Church is full of ser facs. Look at the labels. Can you even survive in a family without making others wrong? If your brother turns on a gas pipe and tries to explode the home shouldn’t you do something to correct the situation? How right is he going to be blown to smithereens? Go look at the “ethics gradients” in the Church for a list of ser facs.

I don’t think it has to do with making others wrong so much as it being under your control. You see people caught up in witch hunts and they just go anywhere with anything. That is madness. They are not in control.

But I have a neighbor that knows I am moving shortly, and he is having a loss. I already sold the house and I am sitting in it waiting for the owners to take possession. He doesn’t know how to let go. And I did a lot of favors for this guy. Once, he lost his wallet in Chicago and I spent four hours through the night in Vegas getting him off the street, into a hotel, and getting money wired to him. That is about 5% of the equation. Whatever…I also got one of his kids out of jam at a (huge) sacrifice to me.

So, he comes over yesterday and attacks me (verbally) in the driveway for over an hour. Dust from my Palm Tree hits his pool. Pedals of my bushes fall over the fence onto his property. He owns the easement (not true) behind our joined homes. And he goes on and on. He says he is going to poison all of my trees on the adjoining property. And ,this guy has been living next to me for six years and he knows I can have a bad temper when I am pushed. And he is out there in my face in this bizarre challenge all of the sudden. It was just too easy to make him wrong. I mean, this guy is a heavy weight in Vegas, the head of a union. He was begging me to go off on him. Attack attack attack.

I thought, “I do not understand this.” So I did not respond. “o.k., o.k..”

He got in his car and drove off and was gone for over 24 hours. He returns today and I get it. He is just trying to create something, even conflict. He is happy to see that I am still here.

I will move. He will come visit. He will need my help again. I will still be his friend. Nothing will change. He will never have a loss because of me. Because I did not ser fac.

When it is under your control is it aberrated?
windhorsegallery | July 7, 2015 at 4:18 am |

I recommend this book — I’ve not yet read it as the publication date is today 7 July — it’s ordered by me on amazon —

I did read the interview about it – and many of us might be able to relate based on our own lives. And definitely those who were born into scientology should be able to CLEARLY see how traumatized they were if they were part of the day care (HA) facilities provided by scientology

In “Childhood Disrupted”, Donna Jackson Nakazawa explains how your biography becomes your biology…and that you really can heal
The Oracle | July 7, 2015 at 4:19 am |

I mean to say, I have figured out that a ser fac needs to carry setting someone else up for a loss before “making self right and others wrong” is really a nasty habit you need to rise above.
Letting go | July 7, 2015 at 10:40 am |

The Oracle, I read what you wrote about items to my mum, who said it helped her so much she asked me to tell you thanks!

So thank you from my mum – and from me. Your clearly articulated views help me to make sense of the scientology experience.
MarkNR | July 7, 2015 at 10:51 pm |

Hello there Miss Oracle. Good to hear from you.
The Service Facsimile. Hmmm.
A facsimile or memory or agreement or postulate/decision etc, etc, lying beneath ones consciousness, that has an effect on one in present time, unbeknownst to the individual, that one justifies and uses to handle present time situations. Since one considers himself incapable of error, the original handling of the situation must have been a right action, therefore all subsequent similar actions must also be right. All future handlings based on the original handlings must also be right. To admit error is to crash and burn, not an option.

If the principles of the ser fac are correct, then all the basic principles of Dianetics and Scn. are pretty much right. Maybe not 100%, but pretty much. All the basics of the bank, postulates, justification, reactive mind, whole track, and the spirit are in play here.

It has been my experience and observation that ser facs are caused by, operate, and play out, for the most part, as described. It is a common phenomenon.

I’ve gotten where I don’t worry much about it. People following their old decisions, agreements, experiences. It’s really interesting to watch. Sure, I defend myself and others, restrain and correct people from time to time, but I just don’t get dug into it. When someone is bent on reliving their past in the present, I will often find something I can actually admire about that person. Silently, to myself. They usually change. It’s fun.

If they continue to wreak havoc, perhaps the best handling is for their body to be forfeit. That is not acceptable in today’s society, so I just let others know what is going on. As said, the light of day is the best disinfectant.

Life is good. The grandkids are happy, friends are doing well.
ARCL, Mark
Brian | July 8, 2015 at 10:13 am |

And thank you George. I have also enjoyed talking to you. Your ideas and questions have allowed me to see some things I could not without your questions and experience.

This thread helped me. I could be wrong or I could be right about these things. Or maybe a mixture of both.

Ya know how people coming out say,”how could I ever have bought into it, I feel so ashamed or stupid. How did this happen to me?”

This metaphor keeps popping up as an answer:

Let’s say we go to a hypnotism show and the hypnotic operator puts someone under a spell and tells the subject they are a chicken and won’t remember. Then they video tape it.

On return from the hypnotic trance the subject is shown the clip of them hopping and clucking all over the stage as a chicken.

The subject is amazed and surprised that they acted so out of their character.

This reminds me of people awakening from Ron as a religio-hypnotic-operator.

Thank you so much George. I am glad to have shared these ideas with you. It’s fun to ponder and trouble shoot delusion.

Much Metta,
Brian
The Oracle | July 8, 2015 at 11:29 am |

XXOO
Letting go | July 9, 2015 at 2:07 pm |

I think religion could be considered a tool to capture and dominate social territory.
Path of Buddha | July 9, 2015 at 7:09 pm |

Hi Brian,
My gratitude extends to you, to Marty Rathbun and to all who have ever read or written on this blog. This forum has helped me to see more clearly the issues involved with Scientology and Hubbard. Brilliant comments have inspired investigation.
Last summer I went to the Florida State Fair and witnessed a group session on hypnosis. This was my second or third time. I did not watch the end because I knew what was going to happen. I did not want to watch the last person acting out of character. Hubbard is no longer a mystery.
Mental energy increasing at an accelerating rate has replaced Scientology. In the end, the paths have different origins. A person is entitled to their own path.
I remember thousands of hours of taped lectures, auditing, training, and reading. It was a great adventure to study Scientology. It was a challenge to figure out what Hubbard was talking about. I think your “hypnotic operator” sums it all up quite well. Why do you need to be consistent if you are going to control minds?
For me OT VIII on the Freewinds started as a tiny crack which grew into a breaking of the Hoover Dam. Once the dam was broken, all the water rushed out.
Hubbard simply could not understand the substance of beings.

Much Metta,
GMW

May all beings be well, happy and peaceful.
MarkNR | July 9, 2015 at 9:13 pm |

Religion, tool to capture and dominate social territory. Doesn’t fit my definition of religion. Maybe that’s a problem I’ve been having relating to people. I have my own definitions for certain things that are not identical to theirs.

For my personal use, I have used the definition that religion was the study and belief in spiritual matters. LRH used the definition of the study of wisdom or knowledge. Not much in use today. My second definition was the organized belief systems that are and have been in use.

Certain individuals have used religion and religious beliefs for their own purposes throughout history. A few have discovered that religious beliefs are very dear to some people’s heart, and is a method to control others through misinformation and pandering to mis-emotion. If not for religion, they would, of course, choose different means of manipulation. This unfortunately often hides and drowns the actual value of religion. Especially organized religion.

It is religion which civilized a savage and animalistic world thousands of years ago. Religion brought forth the entire idea that there is such a thing as right and wrong, that there is more to life than mere body survival. I feel that there is an absolute necessity for the basic idea and principle of religious belief and knowledge. Too bad that it is corrupted and twisted by a few, to the detriment of many.

But, that’s just my thoughts on the subject.
Mark
Friend | July 10, 2015 at 5:02 am |

For me (myself not LRH or whoever) is a SerFac a standard solution to a given problem. If you have a problem which you can not solve, you go on standardly with a proven solution .. but it is a reaction to others or self .. it is a not controlled action .. I found always that a person hangs up in an ARCX which tangles his own feeling of life .. something unjust around ..

So the whole lower Bridge comes together in this item SerFac .. therefore LRH gave all his correction lists .. all of them should key out the SerFac .. so that the person can be straightened out for handling the SerFac later ..

Basically it is a demand to be right .. and with this others have to be wrong. But LRH gave very long explanations about (I have never really grasped that completely) .. but it is surely true that a person can go in charge when running into such stuff .. the force to be right can become extreme .. but it is surely not under control of self .. basically it is a real aberrated state of affairs ..

There are a lot of people around who dramatize that always, but there are also a lot of people around who would never do that.

Point is, you can change your mind .. some can not. It means with a lot of people you can straighten out a SerFac very easy .. very fast .. but there are guys who need a lot of help for that ..

Religions are groups of interest .. but you can find lot of fanatist in it, guys who want to be right .. extreme ideas of being right ..

Scientology goes this days the same way .. they are all right, and none of them realize that they promote only LRH being right .. which is all SerFac ..

As a clear you should be able to stopp thinking at your own wish .. if you can, you will not have a SerFac .. it would not work .. you would not do it into work anyway .. basically you would decide yourself where your ARC flows .. not another or your mind (which is you) ..

Finally: LRH found the reactive mind .. but it is you who mock them up as he later said. LRH said there is an analytical mind .. but later he said it is you and not a mind at all. All what it says is really that you had to mock up a SerFac before you could start scientology services .. some way or another that is the way of LRH ..

Religion can do that .. the fixed idea of religion can do that .. good religion will not do that ..
Brian | July 10, 2015 at 10:42 am |

I agree George, Thank you Marty for this opportunity. I hope you and the family are safe, happy and prosperous Marty.

Hypnotic Operator is also my final understanding of Ron and what happened to us. It takes away the mystery for me.

And I arrived at it with my communication with you George.

I hope your life is happy and prosperous also George.

Warm Regards
Brian
Letting go | July 10, 2015 at 11:59 am |

Given that primate studies show an ability and willingness to share and care in our related species as well, the difference in humans is in degree. Religion may have built on existing urges and behaviours, but I very much doubt Hubbard’s claim that it civilised a “savage and animalistic” world. That suggests religion (a creation of the mind) is somehow the independent agency, instead of humans themselves.

I view religion from my experience. Hopefully, you view it from your own, and not from a definition you would like it to satisfy.
Cat Daddy | July 10, 2015 at 4:23 pm |

http://bigthink.com/think-tank/is-the-brain-hardwired-for-religion
The Oracle | July 10, 2015 at 4:27 pm |

Good to hear from you too! Thanks for the good news. I realized over the fast days that I ser fac on myself more than anyone else. “You A&&&hole” “That was fu^&ed up” “Don’t be stupid” “How could you be so stupid?” “Why did you say that?” “Why didn’t you say that?” “You should have walked away.” “You should have smacked his face.” . “You should have pushed a little harder.” “You should stood back a little further.” “Why didn’t I think of that.” “I could have done better.” “I should have done better.” “I should have known better.” “I should have worn something different.” “I shouldn’t have eaten that.” “I shouldn’t have drank that.” “I’m too fat.” “Now I’m too thin.” etc etc etc.

I think people beat themselves up a lot more than they interfere with others.

I’m going to figure out how to handle these ser facs I run on myself.
Cat Daddy | July 10, 2015 at 4:28 pm |

service
facsimili

He knew and he duped you
Cat Daddy | July 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm |
Cat Daddy | July 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm |

The Religion of the Eternal Fire:
iamvalkov | July 10, 2015 at 6:46 pm |

Angela, go to this site http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/ scroll down the right hand side and you will find a section titled “Getting ypur money back from the Co$.” There are several articles there. As wise fool sais, you may never get your money back but it is worth the effort, because yur effort brings additional pressure on the C0$.

Not trying to get your money back pretty much guarantees you won’t. So try.

Especially if it is unused money ypu have “on account”.
Path of Buddha | July 11, 2015 at 7:05 pm |

Hi Brain,
If you ever find yourself in west Florida, please let us know. I have experienced a few great Thai restaurants in the area where we can meet.
My goal is to meditate at least six hours everyday. I manage to hit that level about three times a week. During the rainy season I do more.
Much Metta,
George
Terril Park | July 11, 2015 at 8:12 pm |

I guess you are looking at self improvement here. Much more and you’d qualify as an angel. In fact I think you already have. 🙂
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 2:53 am |

Laughter! Only my BFF would say that.Which you are. Truth is, my biggest blow down (I laughed til it hurt) on the list above, was, “You should have smacked his face.”

I ran that ser fac on myself after I traveled to another state to look at a piece of property that caught my eye. I had spoken to the seller extensively on the phone and had seen lots of photos and done lots research. The property had a large basement. It was a real fixer upper that NOBODY else was interested in. I asked the seller specifically, “I can get around everything else, but I have to be assured that there is no evidence or history of water damage or water intrusion into the basement.”

“NEVER!” he testified.

I get out there and the first thing I see is that someone has poured concrete into all of the planters by the basement.

“Why is this concrete here” I ask.

“Oh the place was built like that, those weren’t planters” he says. Then, he takes my head in his hands and literally turns it towards the front yard.

“Don’t look here” he says. “Look at the front yard.”

Angelic, NOT!
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 3:47 am |

Sorry, I should have explained. The only reason someone would pour concrete into a planter would be to seal it. So, I knew right away water had been pouring into the basement.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:05 am |

I’ve been thinking about religion and some of the purposes. The main purpose is to get everyone on the same page. Hubbard obsessed at getting everyone on the same page. I mean just look at all of policies.. Getting everyone on the same page was one of his primary purposes. I mean, families do that, try to get everyone on the same page. And a rogue family member can cause great distress. To understand some things you have to really understand purpose. It is a big purpose for a lot of people to “get everyone on the same page”. And one large reason for intolerance. You see many movements with the purpose to “get everyone on the same page”. I think it may work in isolated situations to create good. Even highly beneficial. It would be great if everyone could just follow ten simple policies, the ten commandments. All of our laws are based on the ten commandments and to the degree people can be on the same page with that, we have some stability as a society. But to get everyone on the same page is an unattainable goal. Because you will always have some treasonous Mo^&*er Fu^&*r somewhere in the system. And you will always have people writing new books. And you will always have people fall off the page to write new histories. If we were all on the same page with the rotary phones we wouldn’t even have the Internet to have these conversations. What do people get punished for in religion? Not being on the same page with everyone else. I’m sure in David Miscavige’s world right now, he sees his downfall as the people who couldn’t be on the same page with him with his “Hole ethics rundown and sadism with musical chairs”. And it is written to some degree in our character that to “go off the page” is a crime. I mean, I see a lot of people leave the Church and just go somewhere else where everyone can be on the same page. And if you aren’t, you are attacked there. It’s a purpose. And I think some of the upset with Scientologists is that we all didn’t end up on the same page. I mean, if you involved with Scientology or any group, and you don’t care if you are not on the same page with the other people, can you lose?
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:09 am |

I mean, “Everybody on the same page” is an absolute. According to Hubbard himself there are no absolutes. But he convinced people absolutes were attainable all the while saying they were not. He had his own blind spots.He had his own case.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:23 am |

I think true inner peace for me, was realizing nobody was on the same page as me and never would be. But playing in and building a society, I see that Ghandi freed a nation by getting people to be on the same page with him. There are dichotomies, dynamics and conditions. Each thing is separate yet connected. It’s a strange and wonderful game.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:35 am |

I mean, Ghandi wasn’t on the same page with anyone in India, and he didn’t care. That’s how it started. Then he got everyone on the same page with him because he had a good purpose. So, it’s some kind of magic. Hubbard dd a similar thing. Not of the same magnitude and not for the same reasons, it was just similar.

You have to go into a total lonliness off the page,and write a new page. It’s a shift. You just create another universe.Of course you are resented for not being on the same page and you have to be able to tolerate that.

One thing I do not understand at all is the people who invalidate their time stepping off a page or onto a new page. I mean, there are inmates in Rikers Island prison who lost twenty years of freedom and were able to take something from that.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:39 am |

But if you haven’t been to Rikers Island to speak with inmates, you just wouldn’t be able to see.It just blows me away when people discount decades off of their life as meaningless and a total loss. Hell, coal miners in West Virginia wouldn’t give that up. You can take something of value from a one night stand. How the hell does a person discount years of social intercourse and exploring from their lives as a total loss? Where were they?
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 4:58 am |

But I mean, you can see what I am saying just by following this blog. Why has Marty been attacked over and over and over? For not “being on the same page” as other people. He left the Sea Org and he was fairgamed very covertly, “He died”. This was because he was “No longer on the same page”. He resurfaced with out hate. There are at least four hundred threads fair gaming him for that. For not making the effort to “get everyone on the same page”.He did not choose to dominate or regroup. That former’s attacked him for that. For not “getting everyone on the same page”.The K.S.W.’s fairgamed him when he was his own man and chose his own way. Time and time again he was attacked for not being on the same page. And all the while by people who SUPPOSEDLY understood about PURPOSES and granting of beingness. Could not stand still and tolerate that it was NOT HIS PURPOSE to “be on the same page” as everyone else. Or, “Get on the same page”.And you know, I just stood back and had to wonder why nobody who called themselves a Scientologist or understood ANYTHING about “the tech” were dishing out justice when they clearly did NOT understand one God Damned thing Hubbard ever said.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 5:06 am |

Because, if you are saying, “Anyone who isn’t on the same page with me deserves to be totally unmocked”, your problems are out of the Scientology arena. You have issues with Narcissism. and there was never a rundown in Scientology to handle that.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 5:25 am |

I loved these “K.S.W.” people that just ser faced on Marty for not being “On policy”. Hubbard says right on the admin scale that PURPOSE is senior to POLICY. So if it is NOT someone’s PURPOSE to “BE On POLICY” or “Be on the same page” wouldn’t you be able to see the RIGHTNESS in that? Not with the “experts”. Not with the loyalists. Because THEIR purpose is to “get everyone on the same page” and that is POLICY driven. They attack people ABOVE them blindly and are actually ANTI Scientology to the extent that they can’t REALLY think with it!
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 5:35 am |

I mean, at the end of the day you realize these people in RTC and OSA can’t think with Scientology either. And they seem to be obsessed with it. It’s really you know, strange.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 5:52 am |

I think Hubbard’s purpose to “get everyone on the same page” totally f&^*ked up Scientology. Because he attracted people who’s purpose was to “be on the same page”. Not, “know how to know”. You see people that spent 50 years in that place and still can’t think with one piece of information or use it. The minute they “weren’t on the same page” it all meant nothing. Total waste of time.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 6:01 am |

The funny thing is, it all did not work out because everyone was “On purpose”. Which is senior to all of the police ummm policy.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 6:13 am |
Al Brown | July 12, 2015 at 12:25 pm |

Oracle, Before I even listen to this song I will say two things:
1) I’ve been humming this Marvin Gaye song for the past few days thinking of posting it here! Amazing!
2) In 1977 I was best friends for a year with a guy who had blown Flag in Clearwater. I meet him the first day he arrived in Los Angeles from Clearwater. His nickname was “Mud” which was 3 letters out of his actual first name. I helped him get started in business in Los Angeles. He had been on the Apollo since he was 13 years old. He and I were listening to this Marvin Gaye song one day and he told me that LRH thought this was a good song and had talked about it.
The Oracle | July 12, 2015 at 2:52 pm |

Al, You put a big smile in my face today. I’m going to share that everywhere I go.
MarkNR | July 12, 2015 at 10:10 pm |

“Get on the same page.”
If I had an engram for every time I heard that order, I’d be in hiding. It’s not always bad, it’s the intent behind it at the time. Every situation in it’s own space and time.

“Work together for a common goal……Be creative and individual.”

Those two purposes, intentions, have been pitted against each other for a very long time. Look at a few hundred instances of this, at the individuals who pushed one or the other, at his reasons why, and it all comes clear. A little diligence can work wonders. Really, it gets funnier and funnier.
Mark
MarkNR | July 12, 2015 at 10:34 pm |

It is really unfortunate when a persons purpose for being on the same page was the purpose of “Being on the same page”. That’s not a purpose, that’s a means to a purpose. One catch phrase you hear in Scn constantly is “Being on purpose”. Ironic, but common.

One workable therapy is to go to Ken Ogger’s description of rotating, circular purposes that were given to you as a primary method of living. Find out which are correct for you, the ones that were given to you. Go to the times they were actually given to you and when you decided they were a good idea. (You agreed) Go over a few or a few hundred times you followed these purposes. Go to times you switched purposes and why, when you changed bodies or at pivotal instances during a lifetime. Continue until some things click for you. Unstoppable laughter indicates a good stopping point.

It’s really fun.
Try it.
Mark

P.S. This is an abbreviated description of the process, but as I have mentioned before, many of the details of how you look into things have to be developed yourself. By doing your own research, you gain an understanding that cannot be gained any other way.
MarkNR | July 12, 2015 at 10:50 pm |

Thanks for the reply, L.G.
How much life is in various life unit? It has been my observation so far that life in the physical univ. is gradient. How alive is a sub atomic particle. A rock, a germ, a bunny rabbit, a chimp or dolphin, a human?
Well, how much attention does it take to handle each unit effectively in a normal manner. Well, that is how much life it is currently demanding.

A spiritual, independent life unit. A so called spiritual being. That is a different story. It can decide how much life attention it requires at any given moment. If it is currently “being” a rock or a human, then that is all the life force it is currently deciding to embrace.

An interesting direction of thought if nothing else.
Mark
MarkNR | July 12, 2015 at 11:10 pm |

I have not found a Hubbard process which completely handles the Ser Fac. They cross and combine with an endless amount of other subjects and purposes. Then add implanted, suggested, educated area’s of case. It can be quite a tangled mess. Takes a lot of time and looking.

I have found that for me, when I notice or look for a pattern, and then recognized one, it brings great understanding of my own thoughts and behavior. When I look back up the track and see it play out, it brings to me a calm and relaxed smile. I have found it to be worth the time.
Mark
Brian | July 13, 2015 at 5:50 pm |

Will do George, it would be a pleasure. And if you are in LA please look me up.

May success be yours on your path!

Warm Regards,
Brian
Al Brown | July 14, 2015 at 1:14 pm |

Here is live version with a clean player on the drum kit.
The Oracle | July 15, 2015 at 1:40 am |

I met up with Ken Ogger in L.A.. Spent some time talking with him as I was curious. He was steeped in black magic. Eventually killed himself. If he had offered me a tank of gas on the side of the road I would have refused. I can only assume you never came face to face with him? From where I viewed, I was totally certain his items and solutions were not mine. The only item we had in common was being parked on Earth. He should have been parked in a padded room was my take on it. And if he had been, he might be alive today.
Friend | July 16, 2015 at 4:58 am |

Finally we are all on the same page .. we are living all in this universe, and are now on this planet .. we are not able to run around to other planets and look at other pages ..

LRH did try to implant the idea that we can run around and can play other games .. and he gave the idea that he did and can do .. but in reality he was on the same page .. he steel some ideas from others, figured to it some imagination and logical conclusions .. and told it a religion .. so he tried to write a new page .. maybe a good idea, but he flunked on some parts .. and he himself did never openely spoke about .. if he had checked out his whole writings and speakings .. he had found out that he gave once a new page .. and then did completely introvert in it .. he pulled in solutions to solutions .. which is the reverse of his orginal intention ..

His original idea of the reactive mind was wrong .. there is not such a mind at all .. and there is also no analytical mind too .. it was only seemingly this way because people can mock up some misbehaviour for themselves and hold on it as a reality ..

Sigmund Freud gave a new page to man .. he said that man did hold on old facsimile which he tries to solve now (not absolutely correct – but close) .. and LRH did pick this up .. and anounced the reaktive mind .. which is in some points childish .. childish, because the reactive mind would be only a mocked up mind per Sigmund Freund .. and not a mind who can go in force for himself .. per LRH was the reactive always more powerful than the analytical mind .. so he did end up with his BTs story .. the mind of others ..

Something which he has mocked up for you ..
The Oracle | July 16, 2015 at 3:26 pm |

Thanks. Here’s to all things Marvinlous!
laura | July 17, 2015 at 10:23 am |

Jesus, the Bible, and friends/family. No religion for me. Jesus said to avoid human organization = institutions. It’s the leaven of the Pharisees.
Cat Daddy | July 17, 2015 at 7:52 pm |
christianscientology | July 18, 2015 at 4:05 pm |

Yo Laura

Another good post. As I say to friends “Jesus did not come to start a new religion, but to restore a relationship, firstly between me and my creator and secondly between me and my fellow human beings.

Love
Pip
MarkNR | July 18, 2015 at 11:06 pm |

Ken Ogger.
I know him only by his writing, that part of him anyway.
Brilliance and madness. A common occurrence throughout history. Courage and diligence, another common occurrence among such men.

But even courage and diligence are not enough to solve the riddles of existence. One or two or three lifetimes by one or many is simply not enough. The puzzle is vast and, in part, well designed. Other parts are completely random and follow no logic whatsoever. Impossible to guess your way through.

Not Ron nor Ken nor myself have made more than a dent. Many have added to the sea of knowledge required. You and I have put in our drops. Ken made significant contributions. It is quite unfortunate that he was overwhelmed and driven off the boards by those things he didn’t solve. That is an indicator, to me, that there are things that must be found at any risk.

I am not so arrogant that I am certain that it will never happen to myself. Perhaps several times over the next few centuries. I can only hope that I will come through these times a bit wiser than before. But I must continue.

Oh, by the way, if there is any question about the actuality of whole track recall, I’ll put it to rest. I have developed at least two new aluminum alloys with new physical properties. I am now working on polymeric metals with unusual electromagnetic properties. This is done completely from memory. The only real research I had to do was find the exact harmonic applied frequencies and precise temperatures to work with. Marshal Space Flight seems to like it. LRH’s idea of the link between emotion and frequencies is nothing new. It has been around for a very long time. You just have to get MEST “willing” to do different things.
Mark
MarkNR | July 18, 2015 at 11:39 pm |

I never saw the Jewel of Knowledge that Ken spoke of. I also didn’t see any evidence that Nixon beat Kennedy, after which, time had to be reset after a nuclear war. Just too difficult to get everyone to go along with it.

I did see times in which we were instructed on the different yet connected general purposes of life which we were expected to follow. What he failed to mention was that these instructions, this education, indoctrination, was given thousands of times in a hundred different ways. The ceremony he described was just the tip and the tail end of this indoctrination. A long standing and proven group of methods of Implanting that has been used for many different types of control.
Mark
MarkNR | July 19, 2015 at 8:08 pm |

A piece of the puzzle.

I believe there are many commonalities in our past, many common phenomenon. That our pasts, at the earliest point, converge. I have been studying this for the last few days. It seems to be part of the solution for why many aberrations remain, at least in part, after a thorough going over and understanding.

We are all one individual, separated by our own invented barriers. One life unit. We are all individuals with our own identities and intentions. We are both. We are, each of us, the sole and single creator of the universe and before. We are also sole and single, separate individuals amongst many. Our individualism need not be lost, but we need to understand and ack our connectedness. This is overwhelming and impossible to confront for some. An implanted feeling of “Being lost to the whole” can get kicked in.

But we do need to ack that all our purposes, intentions, and foibles are shared by the whole. A broken leg or a broken heart is shared, at some level, by all. We can clear this for ourselves, but it remains on the track of the whole.

That is why it has been said that we cannot be truly free until all are free. Understanding this brings us closer to that freedom.

Additional: Clearing postulates, considerations, opinions for one’s self can bring immense relief and insight and is not to be scoffed at. But it is not complete as has been demonstrated by the fact that few have reached a return of abilities that are considered beyond standard MEST abilities. Many have had occasional insights that, at the moment were not considered by them to be too far from the norm. But anything thought to be too “weird” brings down a cascade of counter effort.

But this counter effort is not wholly your own. There is your “case”, for lack of a better word, but there is also the group case. This group case provides a framework for normal living, but will kick in hard from time to time when we stray too far from the group “bank agreements”, again for lack of a better word.

I find this to be quite important research which has yielded fruit, but which indicates greater gains in the future. I have had some success with going down other peoples track in order to find additional data while clearing a confusion, but is proving quite difficult to reach any consistency. Other peoples track is closely guarded and held dear.

More work to do.
Mark
The Oracle | July 20, 2015 at 12:14 am |

Hey Mark, that is very cool about your inventions. I don’t consider awareness of past and future lives a Scientology thing. It is validated there, but certainly was not born there. Plenty of people on this planet have that as notion.
The Oracle | July 20, 2015 at 12:18 am |

“That is why it has been said that we cannot be truly free until all are free.”

I ran this out as survivor’s guilt. There are rights of survivor ship, which is an entirely different practice. So far there are only a few people practicing it.
The Oracle | July 20, 2015 at 12:06 pm |

At the end of the day, he forgot to mention the swimming pool implant.
MarkNR | July 20, 2015 at 6:12 pm |

Continuous nuclear fusion really isn’t that difficult. The phrase we used to use is “If you play it the right tune, it will sing for you”. Applied harmonics in the magnetic field is the key. Since I was a mechanic and not an engineer, some of the particulars have to be worked out, such as the mix of gasses.

Marshal Space Flight is not willing to invest a few hundred million on some freaky alien sh#t right now. Oh well. A more detailed write up is posted on Vinair’s blog.
Mark
MarkNR | July 20, 2015 at 8:02 pm |

Until all are free.
Survivors guilt and an obsession to help others That is case.

At a deeper level “Until all are free” becomes truth.

That does not mean that we can’t become a lot more free and able until that day comes. In fact, we can have a really great time along the way.
Mark
MarkNR | July 20, 2015 at 8:18 pm |

Perhaps he got into something, or a few things he couldn’t get out of. Perhaps.
Perhaps I have just been lucky so far…….So far.
The desire for the big reset, the cleansing, that we have been taught comes with body death, can be a near undeniable draw.

But that is of course an escape, going out the bottom. Running away from pain rather than running toward pleasure, accomplishment. There are plenty of incidents in our past which tell us to DO IT. They justify the action.
I don’t recommend it. It’s a long crawl back up the ladder.
Mark
MarkNR | July 20, 2015 at 8:25 pm |

Most devices which are yet to be invented require materials which are not yet available. That is the primary reason I am doing material research.
I’m not too concerned about stealing others ideas, the patents have run out long ago. My grand kids will enjoy the money.
Mark
Geos | July 22, 2015 at 1:46 pm |

Hello, Marty.
I am an orthodox Christian from Russia, recently have seen film “ Going clear … ” – thanks for the interesting story. I know English badly, therefore I write through a translation program and there can be mistakes. The negative attitude{relation} to religion – a result of many people left a cult as they saw not religion. They saw distortion of religion. Ecstasy, which you have written, is necessary to members of “dead” religions, nothing able to give the person, therefore they starts to search any result and comes to ecstasy. Especially in the USA … America hav many Christian sects which members behave inadequately on so-called “divine services”: speak in “languages”, dance as in a disco and so on, and the main thing, live as all nothing differing from non-believers – if to look at them, it will want to become the atheist. But the true religion not such, they give the person absolutely other feelings and ideas and does not require any ecstasy and fervour as it does not conduct to the God.
I have a site criticizing scientology. If will allow, wished to ask you some questions. How it is more convenient for making: here or on e-mail?
Mark C. Rathbun | July 22, 2015 at 2:15 pm |

Hi Geos. Here is fine for queries.
Geos | July 23, 2015 at 6:13 am |

Thanks. Sorry, for the bulk text. I want to use the opportunity provided by you in full.

1. What means to clear a planet? Make all the Scientologists? But they say they respect other religions … How to reconcile this? Also what assume to make Scientologists do with those who do not want to take their religion?

2. Process R2-45 is a metaphor or it exists, but is not used? Are you aware of instances of its use? If you want, you can answer without details.

3. How many Scientologists on the planet is now in your opinion?

4. Cleans and OTs must have phenomenal abilities to instill ideas to people, etc. Why do not people disillusioned with Scientology, seeing that do not have such powers? It seems to ask any, why not instill OT, for example, to silence critics, or do not instill world leaders to give the green light of Scientology around the world. But this is not happening. OTs wear glasses and read the paper reports – the same problems with eyesight and memory! Why the lack of abilities is not surprising Scientologists?

5. There is evidence that LRH declared himself the Antichrist and it was reported on OT8, how much is this true? This document is real, Hubbard wrote it? – http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Declaration/ot8b.html

6. Is it true that Scientologist easy to lie to for the benefit of COS? Beginners Scientologists seem to believe a lie is unethical. How they then become professional liars?

7. It is also said that Scientology never will give alms, as is the maintenance of low statistics. Is it so? It turns out that social work and help those in need “around the world”, which sometimes makes COS, is a PR-move?

8. Hubbard said somewhere: “never regret about yesterday” and guilt is on the tone scale is below zero (- 1.3). Regret about their mistakes and bad deeds considered Scientology a bad thing?

9. Do Scientologists believe that they have the right to flagrantly violate the law for the benefit of COS, if this one does not know?

Thanks in advance!
A Native Son (@Anative_son) | August 15, 2015 at 8:52 pm |

So I just watched the HBO Scientology Expose…naturally I found my way here.

The Human Condition is an amazing thing. I grew up in a very controlling, religious church and saw so many parallels in the world of Scientology. I have since de-converted, but that process was pretty traumatic for me.

Since that time my views on Religion and the folks who practice it have evolved from contempt towards it (and them) to tolerance. I’ve come to understand why so many of us need it…at least I think I have.

Like Arian Foster, I’ve come to a point in life where I can say, “I don’t know and I’m OK with that” to the greatest question in life (on this planet anyway): Is there a God?

I think it would be unfair to expect everyone else to though….
mktaverner | August 27, 2015 at 10:28 pm |

Meditation helps. And you can get there without any church, doctrine, reading, etc. Just breathe slow and deep, close your eyes, gently chase away all thoughts. That’s it.
Pingback: Religion | twinklebee321's Blog
Arnie Lerma | September 16, 2015 at 9:40 am |

I would suggest you read a few pages of this book, most concise summary of the subject that I have encountered after years of reading.. and my wife found it!

Click to access the-power-of-your-subconscious-mind.pdf
christianscientology | September 17, 2015 at 9:24 am |

Hi Arnie,
You have a very clever wife, I’m loving it!