A lot of what I do has come to be characterized by my wife and me as assisting folks to graduate above Scientology. It is somewhat of a unique notion. In fact, the vast majority of people who devoted much time to Scientology ultimately go through the graduation process; reconciling what they learned and gained, differentiating it from the entrapment mechanisms involved, and finding ways to integrate with society, and to evolve and transcend as a person. As far as Scientology-understanding assistance along that route, resources have been slim.
To date there has really only been a couple of paths for Scientologists and ex-Scientologists; at least ones that are assisted by Scientologists or ex-Scientologists who understand something about the subject. Both avenues are of the least resistance variety; the easy, least effective ways that ultimately don’t lead toward graduation.
First, one can cling to his firmly held Scientology religious beliefs and continue with the installed cognitive dissonance that entails. He or she can be guided to pretend that it is all ‘over-there’ in the church and play the ‘I am the resurrection of the real Scientology’ game. That ultimately leads to a sort of bitter, secluded ‘victorious Confederate soldier’ megalomania and melancholy. Second, one can be guided to redirect the implanted Scientology need for an enemy and spend years in a state of suspended enturbulation, senselessly flailing at the church or Scientology itself. The latter route leads to much the same state of mind and consciousness as the former.
I think both routes are infected by perhaps the most insidious virus one is inoculated with in participating in Scientology. That is the need to have an enemy. I have written about this before, e.g. Cults, Enemies and Shadows. It is a decidedly ‘effect’ state of mind; a continual restimulation of a paranoia about the external ‘true’ cause of one’s travails. It does not lead to growth, evolution and transcendence in any sense. It is like remaining in High School year after year, failing to evolve past the angst of adolescence.
There has been a tremendous amount of research done on stages of human growth; cognitive, psychological, moral and more. This is research done by way of learning more about biology, and observing and interviewing tens of thousands of people for over a century. It is not ivory tower ‘psych’ chatter. James Fowler thoroughly studied this huge body of work and spent many years observing an entirely new category of development consistent with those already done on moral, biological, and cognitive bases. His work was on the stages of development of faith. Please read this excerpt from his book on the subject, Stages of Faith, concerning the observed stage of adolescence:
New expectations, qualitatively different disciplines and a host of difficult decisions are the requirements with which societies greet the now more womanly or manly adolescent. In trying to meet and fulfill these requisites youth will call on the available and personally resonant ideological resources of their environments, particularly those that are embodied in charismatic and convincing leaders. They will seek sponsoring groups and figures and will appoint otherwise well-meaning persons as temporary enemies over against whom their identities may be clarified. They may band together in tight cliques, overemphasizing some relatively trivial commonality as a symbol of shared identity. In this cliquishness they can be quite cruel as they exclude those who do not share this common element.
The Scientologist and ex-Scientologist adolescent pack mentality can be graduated from. It opens up to view a wonderful horizon of possibilities and futures. I think first and foremost it entails getting over the implanted need for enemies.
I like that
Great job on this blog.
George M. White
Great post. There’s a message here too for individuals who have made the act of protesting their entire lives to the exclusion of everything and everyone else.
I’ve often said through the years — THIS is my favorite article 🙂
“I think both routes are infected by perhaps the most insidious virus one is inoculated with in participating in Scientology. That is the need to have an enemy.”
It is the NEED to have an enemy which creates the quagmire present in our world today. But, bringing it down to something less grand and nearly unconfrontable – how about the need to have an enemy IN ORDER to lay blame at the feet of a parent, a spouse, an ex-spouse, a sibling and a neighbor.
Without an enemy one would have to fully face himself BY WHATEVER means available and chosen.
While it is true that I’m sure MANY consider Marty their enemy – I don’t think he considers anyone HIS enemy.
I am feeling that way more and more.
I’ve said it over and over — at our CORES we are all seeking the same thing — happiness and a lack of suffering.
Thanks Marty — yet again another great post.
May your enemies begin to wake up … and see you for who you are …
Hey Marty, what are your thoughts on the veracity of the OT levels? The route to total freedom and all that? The state of clear? Do you still believe in these states, or are they just mental tricks that make a person create his own emotions in a session, then destroy them, so that he shoots up the tone-scale for a short while. I think the later. What do you think?
Endphenoneman of Graduating Scientology: The realization L Ron hubbard is just a person with his own flaws and merrits like you and me.
I know an OT7 who says people need enemies. I think he uses it to resolve his cognitive dissonance.
Where does this come from? Is it from LRH’s game theory? Need for a game, which by default means a goal, an opponent, freedoms, barriers and boundaries and all that?
I’d like to say that while calling it “need for an enemy” is stating the obvious, it may not feel that obvious for some. I would have told you a while ago that I sure didn’t have enemies (none I had elected or who had elected me – that I was aware of) and certainly had no need for any, yet gone on instant and automatic attack at the slightest perceived provocation.
Yes, there is no one “it”. But I feel there is a dark undercurrent of fear in this group and tech. So many “unseens” and intangible, invisible, undetectable enemies known only by their effects (own bank, other banks, identities, entities, w/h, m/w/h, circuits, all detectable by a questional electronic divice). There is a well of fear and shame at the very bottom.
How do you grow spiritually, when you don’t even know it exists for sure?
Just finished a review and drove home, guilty of driving as a DWE on a PFN. Driving While Exterior with a persistent F/N. A bit adventurous!
I was handling just these enemy conditions and even hit upon ways in Scientology a person could be made weaker. The labels you know, used on people to assign them enemies. He’s an “S.P., downstat, P.T.S., C/S 22 case, Rock slammer, purped out, with holdy, arc breaky, loose cannon, reasonable, etc etc etc.”
These terms and labels do inspire negative attitudes and there are people that use them and use Scientology to unmock or weaken other people.
A person’s PURPOSE will make your experiences with them a pleasant and helpful one, or can set you up for losses and misery. And enemies.
I do not want to inherit any more enemies under the mask of “love for L. Ron Hubbard and mankind”. Not sure how many people got involved with Scientology to gain enemies but I would guess the percentage is very low.
You are right Marty. We are in better form to think of our friends, care for our friends, make new friends, be a good friend.
I would rather be remembered as a good friend than a formidable foe any day of the week. I can tell you this too, there is nothing that has been done to you that can not be washed away by a good friend with good intentions who is a trained auditor having a simple conversation with you, a conversation you will not have outside of an auditing room.
The harmful effects of suppression, wrong items, wrong indications, wrong whys, injustice, expulsions, imprisonments, displacement, unfair wages, treasonous liaisons, unattainable goals, mean spirited people, sociopaths, mother in laws, spurned lovers, unethical doctors, drugs, big pharmaceuticals, slum lords, dizzy parents, unstable bridges, virus’, bombs, revolution, earth quakes, love, sex, food, disco, Las Vegas, New York, dinosaurs, famine, plague and anything else you can name, can be
healed with only one person sitting in front of you with the ability to care about you.
Thanks Trey, Marty, Les, and to all of those that make the impossible, possible, through love and the ability to care about the person in front of you. You are the love that conquers hate. We are the promise of a better tomorrow. Not because of our beliefs, because of our behavior.
That being said I will still forward his place in history because I believe history is important and I do not believe it is an Implant. L Ron Hubbard advanced on freud with his processes and auditing out Trauma whathever he used his vast knowlegde of the human mind for later in life.
I do not adore or Idolize him. My aim is just to give him his place on a chain of knowledge,discovery and science where it is deserved.
I am not a fan, just want him to get credit were it’s due and there are enough critics that want to shove everything under the carpet allready.
I totally agree that what you describe has happened to many Scientologists, especially those who joined the Sea Org as teenagers after about 1975. Those people DO need to “graduate” from something. But that something is not Scientology. It is their erroneous IDEA of Scientology, based on their experience with a very, very altered version of the subject.
I have said before that you got into Scientology too late, on too much of an admin and management track, to have ever experienced the Real Scientology to which the Sea Org was a corrupting overlay. By “Real Scientology” I mean LRH standard tech, delivered in a high-toned manner, with the intention of freeing people rather than controlling them, and with admin supporting tech rather than ruling it.
Your idea of what Scientology IS, is based on your unfortunate personal experience of 25 years in a very NON-Scientological pressure cooker (Int Management). If Scientology were what you think it is, you’d be right that its members need to “graduate.” But your idea of what Scientology is as a subject is incorrect.
I got into Scientology in 1968 at age 20. I was not looking for a cause, or a group to belong to, or an enemy to fight. I was looking for a workable understanding of why the world seemed so screwed up, plus relief from certain psychological hangups, and a faster route to spiritual enlightenment than I’d experienced in Zen or Transcendental Meditation, even though both had been workable to a degree. My initial auditing blew my case in dramatic fashion and resulted in my having LESS of a “need for enemies” than I’d had before. In fact, I pretty much loved everyone at that point. I joined staff at my local mission in order for “others to have similar gains to my own.” Needing enemies played absolutely no part in it.
Later, as I moved up the line to the local Class 4 org, and then to ASHO, AOLA, and Flag, I found that the higher up I went in the org hierarchy, the more the “fighting enemies” attitude you describe was being dramatized in ethics, tech, and admin. The existence of that attitude was directly proportional to Sea Org influence. It wasn’t part of actual Scientology. It was part of the cult overlay that interpreted and applied LRH issues in a low-toned, spiritually unaware manner.
I was exposed to many opportunities to join the Sea Org, but never did. My instinctive aversion to the Nazi cult aspects of the SO was just too great. I did work as non-SO staff in SO orgs a few times, and was always very productive, but also always ran afoul of dramatizing seniors, because I refused to knuckle under to their bullying. In my auditing, I always rejected out tech. That got me in a lot of trouble, but I never broke to become a hypnotized Kool-Aid drinker.
What I’ve just described regarding myself was quite common among my friends who had gotten involved in Real Scientology in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Most of us never got sucked into the mass hypnotism you describe. YOU got sucked in, but WE didn’t.
You never saw Real Scientology, but only the later corrupted version. As a result, you don’t know that Real Scientology even exists. You think anyone claiming that it exists just hasn’t fully recovered from being hypnotized. You ridicule the idea of Real Scientology, and you ridicule those of us who experienced it and know that it does exist. You pose as having higher insight and wisdom about Scientology, but in actual fact you were involved in something else. To this day, you’ve had no experience with Real Scientology.
As for “fighting enemies,” you are the one who needs to “graduate.” When you were in the Church you fought who you thought were its enemies. After leaving the Church you fought DM and the abuses of Church management. Now, you’re fighting Scientology as an entire subject. You’re still fighting enemies. You’ve just cloaked it in scholarly philosophical musings that make it harder to see.
Most of the people you want to help “graduate” from Scientology were never actually in it, even though they thought they were. They do need a cleanup of their experience with the phony, corrupted travesty of a subject pushed by the Church. But the only people actually able to help them with that are Real Scientologists who never got corrupted in the first place.
Bottom line, it’s common sense to actually duplicate, understand, and properly use a subject before deciding it doesn’t work well enough to remain its own, uncorrupted, undiluted self. Your entire effort for some time now has been a dispersal off of that.
this is all very nice, wise and jolly, but entails illogics and catch 22’s.
Sorry to go against the tide guys, but please observe:
“Both routes are infected by perhaps the most insidious virus one is inoculated with in participating in Scientology”
This wise observation, is in itself an assignment of an “enemy” or ‘enemy-like’ thing or activity. And rightly so, these implanted insidious activities harm people and are not directed by “friends”.
What I am getting at is this: “Enemy” is a valid word, shows up in any dictionary and describe some part of the game.
How we use it, with awareness or blindness, there lies the real issue.
“All/most are enemies” – and “there are no enemies”, are alike, blindness.
“A constant need to have an enemy” – and “a constant denial that it can exist” are 2 sides of the same coin: blindness.
Even though the son of Holocaust survivors, I lived most of this life never seeing any enemies anywhere. Even in the CoS, I never bought this virus. May be because I was easy going public…or whatever. When faced with this madness finally, I resisted and not long after, fled. I could not live with that imposed paranoia. BUT, and this is IMHO important: Enemies Do exist. And can be fought. The price to avoid in this fight: Catching the “enemy virus”…
And I had to go the opposite direction of which Marty takes here (Valid too of course) and learn that evil and enemies do exist in the game here..
Hitler had to be labeled that. He was. And he had to be stopped. Davy better be stopped too. Many more examples abound.
But turning “enemies” into a way of life?? NO. Balance, sanity and spiritual approach can and will guide the correct use of that.
And having said all that, still, one of the favorite quotes, which I LOVE to apply is: “I destroy my enemies by… making them my friends.”
Yes…it comes from Ron…I heard a tape once where he said “Oh sure I could help these psychiatrist with all their problems but then I wouldn’t have a game” I guess the game was having them as enemies. He liked it.
It is a bit like looking at life in one dimension and then finally
see it in three D with full vibrant colours moving and pulsating.
I can only imagine but it is a journey well worth it IMHO. Thanks
Marty for doing the research for me.
I take issue with that Cat Daddy, I would never wish destruction on enemies, toss my wife under the buss, be angry for my son commiting suicide and set up an ideology were I was the sole wiseman on the planet.
Or even have a goal of taking over a planet.
Ron was not like you or me. Or shall I say he was not like me or anyone else I know. Cat Daddy would you throw you wife away because she was cuaght in illegal activity that you created?
Sorry guys, I could not agree with this. Ron was not an everyday Joe.
Yes, one day we all have to grow up and take responsibility for our own individual Divine nature…. Free Will! We can’t hold anyone’s hand or anyone’s dogma and experience true freedom. The universe seems to demand us to let go of all form, thought and belief at some point in time…. Let go and grow the bleep up! You rock Marty!!!! Love, e
Please take this talk to heart
When one leaves the labels behind, when one leaves he considerations and judgements behind, it becomes a whole new world. Personally I have come to learn that Scio was just one step, one facet of all there is to learn and grow with. Cheers to you Marty and Mosey!!!!!! P.S. I have been a seeker for many years and am still learning and growing. To think that OT7 or OT umpty ump was the end of a, so called bridge of destination, where one was all powerful is truly foolish, from my point of view.
Just a Friday afternoon point of view. Tra La La
The Oracle: “I can tell you this too, there is nothing that has been done to you that can not be washed away by a good friend with good intentions who is a trained auditor having a simple conversation with you, a conversation you will not have outside of an auditing room.”
That really hits the nail on the head, IMO. And it relates to the one thing I myself would add to Marty’s great post, which is that there is also a faction of former Scientologists (and others, I suppose) who will fiercely attack the viewpoint that much of Scientology is invaluable and who will only accept the idea that it’s all or almost all bad.
I’ll stop short of saying that “There’s nothing like a good auditing session with a good auditor” but I will say there’s not a lot that’s as good. 😉
I’ve got news. The war has been over for 150 years and slavery has been abolished.
Great post, Marty.
Graduating from Scientology IS the correct end result.
For years, you and I have had a weird kind of battle about the way in which someone should approach the abuses and lies that Scientology is built upon, and the responsibility one has to others to expose those lies and those abuses so that those others may not be lied to and abused as you and I have been.
NOTE: Exposing the lies and abuse that one has been subjected to in Scientology is NOT being a victim. It is being cause over those lies and that abuse by seeing to it that no one else can be lied to and abused by Scientology ever again. This is why every critic of Scientology has ever spoken out – since Dr Winter wrote the first book critical of Dianetics in 1951.
It has only been in the last 5 years or so that the resources have been available to create a safe space for people to graduate from Scientology without being fucked with to within an inch of their lives by the Church of Scientology. You are partly responsible for that new and safer environment where people can graduate from Scientology without violence to their well-being. Others, not connected to you, such as Anonymous, and Ex-Scientology critics, are responsible as well.
The balance of power for those who have been abused by Scientology has been shifting. Graduating from Scientology, and continuing on one’s own spiritual path, and helping others to graduate – unmolested by Scientology -has become easier and easier.
As a long time critic of Scientology, this has always been my purpose.
I am very happy to see it happening for so many people now.
Thanks for all you have done, Marty, to make this happen.
Although I haven’t read Fowler, it wouldn’t surprise me to find that his Stages of Faith occur on a harmonic or fractal pattern. In other words, wherever on the scale someone may be in their overall spiritual path, they recapitulate the stages when they make a major change such as leaving the Church. My observation is that almost everyone who leaves go through the adolescent stage where they consider the Church to be the enemy, or maybe just David Miscavige, the Sea Org, or… Some get through this stage very quickly, while some I know have been stuck there for years.
Just a guess, but I also suspect those who most strongly bought into the psychs being the whole-track boogeymen destroying the known universe are the same ones who spend the most time in that adolescent stage vis-a-vis the Church.
Warren Marston, maybe you should start your own blog. I’ve seen you post a lot of comments about how Marty doesn’t know anything about REAL Scientology because he’s just a newcomer. You, apparently, know just about everything there is about what Marty should or shouldn’t be doing, writing, thinking or experiencing.
I have a question that I believe you’ve never answered to the best of my recollection, although others have asked it before. Do you deliver any of this REAL Scientology?
You said to Marty:
“As for “fighting enemies,” you are the one who needs to “graduate.” When you were in the Church you fought who you thought were its enemies. After leaving the Church you fought DM and the abuses of Church management. Now, you’re fighting Scientology as an entire subject. You’re still fighting enemies. You’ve just cloaked it in scholarly philosophical musings that make it harder to see.”
I suggest you take a look at what perceived enemy you seem to be fighting, which is apparently Marty, then get off your high horse and show us some production that proves how much REAL Scientology you know, apply and deliver to others.
Your continued criticisms come across as shrill, vindictive and envious. Take some of that malevolent energy you use on this blog and put it to good productive use. If what you know is even a third as much as you say about REAL Scientology, shouldn’t others benefit from this by your delivery?
You’re a ill-informed, Johnny-come-lately, condescending, evaluative ass.
That’s my humble opinion.
Marty can tour audience take this ? or are they not ready for it ?
Marty, An excellent article here. I totally concur. And I might add my own observations which uphold yours too: I have noticed that since I’ve come out as an Indie, but under the radar for many reasons, that I have been attacked by a few other Indies for being under the radar. There is that need for an enemy that you speak of. And these specific Indies who made me wrong, invalidated me and forced wrong items on me and basically harassed me for not “sticking it to DM” publicly, are all dramatizing the need for fighting an enemy as in the adolescent phase you and James Fowler speak of. Those Indies who assert and insist that one is wrong for not coming out publicly, are using a service facsimile of making self right and others wrong. They are also dramatizing being stuck in the winning valence. The winning valence in this case is DM and the corporate church who enforce disconnection on dissenters. The Indies who were dramatizing this on me actually disconnected from me because I would not fight the same enemy they were constantly fighting, i.e., DM, the church, church parishoner, the IAS etc. Just because you’re dramatizing the winning valence doesn’t mean you won. I hope that all of these Indies who have done this to me will graduate out of the adolescent phase for their own good and for the good of those who they make wrong. We need cohesion in the Indie world, not division.
I did enjoy reading your blog when you were fighting the cult. But I understand how you have come to these conclusions and it shows you’re a sane person. Only the insane keep fighting. There comes a time when everything has been said and one is ready to move on up higher in life. Your blog has helped me in that. Thank you.
Warren, I am in agreement with you as concerns your great appreciation of what we could call “core” Scientology. However, if you put it across too dogmatically and/or invalidate others’ viewpoints, you just defeat your own purposes. I’ve had to work on that lesson myself. Just a friendly word of advice.
Warren Marsten = Troll.
At the risk of feeding this troll, I still feel obligated to comment. Guys like this who know it all belong inside the C of $. In fact, this Marston guy sounds like most of the SO members I knew!
I’d hate to be sent to have an MAA interview with the likes of this bird inside the Church. Spare me.
Re that second route:
“Second, one can be guided to redirect the implanted Scientology need for an enemy and spend years in a state of suspended enturbulation, senselessly flailing at the church or Scientology itself. The latter route leads to much the same state of mind and consciousness as the former.”
I would add a variant. I believe there are many people suffering in silence. They are afraid to flail at the church, and have internalized their experience into forms of depression and self-invalidation. In a society that at least pretends to a right of privacy, how intimidating can it be to know that one’s soul has been bared and recorded in all its detail of sex, big or little failings, overts real or imagined — only to realize now that one has trusted those innermost details to an impersonal organization that places its own survival as a much higher value than the protection of your penitent-priest privacy — especially should you openly challenge the church.
In the past, this has effectively stifled, muted, and controlled untold numbers of people. Several things have changed that fear — and thus have torpedoed C of S ability to control through fear:
2. Groups like ex-Scientologists and Independent Scientology.
3. Defection and speaking up of high level former leaders.
4. More and more people realizing that the “wog” world actually has many answers to what suppresses and impairs us in our lives.
CofS is a little like North Korea. They have to make their citizens believe that the rest of the world is the disadvantaged, crime ridden, backward, starving, doomed capitalist world. And that North Korea is the pinnacle of human achievement.
Just like North Korea is a dark, lightless place on a night picture from space, so too has CofS relegated itself to darkness, cutting itself off from the wisdom and knowledge of the world. Totalitarianism of any sort extinguishes the candle of freedom and knowledge.
And when North Korean defectors find that South Korea and the rest of the world is quite fine, that they have enough food for the most part, and that they are not at all bent on destroying North Korea and still love their estranged relatives in North Korea, well, at that point they begin the process of surmounting a brainwashed life. So too do those leaving Scientology learn that they have been lied to to be controlled by the “church.” The world is not out to destroy Scientology. In fact, Scientology is only a faint blip on the world’s radar of priorities — if that. And people don’t hate Scientologists and wish them to perish. They still love and care for their estranged relatives and friends.
So for everyone who is in, out, never in, undecided — whatever, there’s a song that comes to mind. For me it expresses the reality that love, respect, and empathy will resolve almost all of our needs. Here is the song:
That emerald city represents Earth. Welcome home.
Warren, you have a curious inability to discuss the actual ideas and concepts that Marty presents.
Rather you insist on attempting to inculcate the idea that Marty is somehow ignorant because YOU were in SCN before him.
This is pattently absurd. I am starting to feel sorrry for you, however.
It seems that you are desperately clinging to something that was never there in the first place. Whatever that thing imagined was.
“Only the insane keep fighting. There comes a time when everything has been said and one is ready to move on up higher in life.” Agnostic Reader, YES you hit the nail on the head. And that time to move on up higher in ilfe is right now, for me anyway.
I am not sure about graduating from Scientology as if you were moving beyond it to something more advanced. I am pretty sure that there is no such thing. Scientology needs work and it needs fixed but it certainly should not be abandoned.
I’ve been reading your new book. From the first page I have been thinking that it sure seems like it is better written than the others. I haven’t gone back to check the other books to see just what the difference is and ultimately I am no expert on the subject but I think I might be onto something. With that in mind it was a pleasure to read in your book that you had wanted to be a writer since college. Judging form this book I think you made another of your dreams come true.
Damn I forgot AnonSparrow was so effectve
“we all have to grow up and take responsibility for our own individual Divine nature…. Free Will!…. ”
I am at that point now and I am so happy and free.
Moonshot: “Rather you insist on attempting to inculcate the idea that Marty is somehow ignorant because YOU were in SCN before him.”
That is the problem of a difference in reality. There are many things with Marty with which I agree and some with which I disagree.
I agree with Warren on how it was pre ’80. I entered at a point on the cusp and saw both sides. The pre-cusp side I could identify with; the post I never did, despite those attempts to make me.
I agree with Warren’s reality more, maybe, than Marty’s, because I saw that Warren’s reality really could exist – in the best way – and I’ve never fully lost that.
That form of Scientology may not work for everyone but I definitely have fewer fingers and toes than those I could count for who it did.
I have immense respect for Marty and what he has done and to where he has guided people. His path is a safe enough path to follow.
But when you graduate from it, there will still be a path to follow that was the path you thought you had set foot on in the first place.
This is not the point to describe the path but the point to hint at the crumbs to the path. Marty may come out with the path, in the future,or he may hint at it, or whatever.
The point is, Scientology had a mere 30+ years to evolve. That’s a pretty small number compared to 14.7 billion years for this physical universe to form. The good that came out of those 30+ years dwarfs the bad. The good can still be built upon. Warren alluded to the good. I concur as will a few others. The good can be salvaged and added to the best that humanity has been able to figure out with its social sciences.
The social sciences virtually totally miss on the spiritual aspect of man.
I know more than a bit about that; I studied them. To the degree that they leave sprituality out, they will ultimately fail. That does not diminish the basis of human interaction which they seek to improve, it merely shows the limitation of any science that does not include the spirit of man as a factor in the causality of action and behavior.
Despite all flaws, Ron had an immense appreciation of the position of the spiritual aspect of man in relation to action and behavior. I believe it was his flaws that endowed him with his vision.
There are lessons to be learned from the path he went down, however the main message should be that we should graduate from the idea of being an effect point to the idea of being a cause point.. That sounds trite when you say it fast, but it really is the way it works.
Once we do that the number of paths open up. Those who have not yet trained as auditors are at a bit of a disadvantage, but I will not discount anyone’s personal ability to understand the mind and the things that influence it.
For anyone who can see that they are under the influence of things they cannot see, I’d suggest learning how to audit. Starting with Book 1, if you have no other access to training.
It is not your success as an auditor that will add to your beingness, it will be your failures and how you deal with them and learn from them that will do you well. Where you have success, let us bid your pc a resounding hurrah! Where you fail, let us hope you did not do fatal damage and have means to get corrected. Beyond that, any added knowingness for the pc and auditor is a bonus! Splurge!
The real point is – we’ve got a long way to go. Graduate. Then graduate. Then…
Book title: “Deconstructing Scientology” ?
“Second, one can be guided to redirect the implanted Scientology need for an enemy and spend years in a state of suspended enturbulation”
Read “1984”, the manual for the dark side of Scientology. The constant need for a fictitious war is in there.
“But the only people actually able to help them with that are Real Scientologists …”
Boy, does that sound eerily similar to what I’ve heard from a certain newer, ‘non-Real’ Scientologist.. But, he hasn’t been trained in using ‘Real’ Scientology, right?
And we’ll walk down the avenue again
And we’ll sing all the songs from way back when
And we’ll walk down the avenue again and the healing has begun
And we’ll walk down the avenue in style
And we’ll walk down the avenue and we’ll smile
And we’ll say baby ain’t it all worthwhile when the healing has begun
I want you to put on your pretty summer dress
You can wear your Easter bonnet and all the rest
And I wanna make love to you yes, yes, yes when the healing has begun
When you hear the music ringin’ in your soul
And you feel it in your heart and it grows and grows
And it comes from the backstreet rock & roll and the healing has begun
I want you to put on your pretty summer dress
You can wear your Easter bonnet and all the rest
And I wanna make love to you yes, yes, yes and the healing has begun
We’re gonna make music underneath the stars
We’re gonna play to the violin and the two guitars
We’re gonna sit there and play for hours and hours when the healing has begun
Spoken: Wait a minute, listen, listen,
I didn’t know you stayed up so late.
I just got home from a gig and I saw
you standing on the street.
Just let me move on up to this window-sill a lot yeah, I got some sherry.
You want a drop of port.
Let’s move behind this door here.
Let’s move on up behind this letter-box behind this door.
Let’s go in your front room,
let’s play this Muddy Waters record you got there,
if you just open up a little bit
and let me ease on in this backstreet jellyroll….
We’re gonna stay out all night long
And then we’re gonna go out and roam across the field
Baby you know how I feel when the healing has begun
When the healing, when the healing
We’re gonna stay out all night long
We’re gonna dance to the rock & roll
When the healing when the healing has begun
Agreed, Jane. It seems the Indie field is going through decompression stages and mocking up enemies where there are none. Marty has demonstrated major changes in his viewpoints and actions, and some, such as Warren Marston, are now calling him the enemy. While everyone is entitled to his/her own viewpoint, assigning another a label like that smacks of the RCS penchant for labeling others as PTS, SP, Disaffected, etc.
We all left the RCS because of these kinds of injustices. Those that continue this behavior are still stuck in that cold chrome steel valence.
It’s much nicer to be in the fresh air and sunshine, living and letting others live freely.
Actually, I think Warren does an excellent job of exemplifying exactly what Marty is posting. In this instance, having to have an enemy. For Warren, it’s Marty because he’s a baby Scientologist who never experienced the REAL thing like Warren did.
And as for being an adolescent who never can quite grow up……well, need I say more?
Thanks. I believe you’re right. He liked it. Just hours after posting my question I came across a likely answer in Creation of Human Ability, R2-43: Fighting (and R2-42-44, as they are run as a group). Published in 1954.
And “fighting” and “enemy” are used in SoS to illustrate actions on tone levels.
LRH sneered at soft spoken society and considered it a “thin veneer of civilisation”. I guess what really matters is not to graduate or evolve from Scientology but to clean it out, disentangle oneself from it and return to life.
I will read Lalich and Tobias’ book “Take back your life”. I am not sure Scientology can be solved with Scientology, unless one adds “real-world” concepts as a bridge back to reality.
Always in motion is the future.
There are also those who will attack the viewpoint that Scientology is not valuable, or at least not worth the cost.
Perhaps it would be good to consider carefully whom one is going to let tamper with one’s mind?
I think it is clear for a reader of some of my comments that I stick to Scientology. Not the Church but to the writings so to say. So I did not graduate from it. Inside or outside Scientology for me the most difficult thing to do is to know something that has no bearing on „observables“. Sample: someone did ask me „what did you eat for breakfast“. I did have a look into my mind, did find some sort of a picture (as prove) and then I could tell him what I did eat as I did not only know it but had some prove of it for myself what I did eat. Then one day in session (I realized it only after that session) all my mind went kaboom. No more pictures or masses to prove anything. I had a problem. You see. Then I had only the „I know“ as prove. How can I now decide if it is true or imagination or halluzination?
After I had some sort of confidence in „knowing“ I had to master the next catastrophe. All my automatics went kaboom. Sometimes I had to be very careful with my body not to stop the heart by accident or things like that. Or in the outside world not to create some mess up.
Or in other words: if some other school or graduation could do that faster and easier then I would join. I did find some other schools in the past like Buddhism. But currently I canot see many alternatives to the writings of L. Ron Hubbard.
Meanwhile I re created my mind electronics and when somebody is asking me a question then I turn on my mental google engine and can tell him „look at mail from soandso from time soandso“ with confidence as I have a mental impression.
Or I re created my automatics that run my mody and environment. Now I can tell that all my experiences had been hallucination. You are right we have to graduate from Scientology, fully agree, lean back watch a soccer game and have a drink. Should I?
“You ridicule the idea of Real Scientology, and you ridicule those of us who experienced it and know that it does exist.”
To say this about Marty indicates you don’t know what you’re talking about.
He’s clearly looking at “Moving on up a little higher.” With brilliant
Scn and particularly the CO$ contain ideas that regard the rest of existence as “enemy”. The labels have been mentioned elsewhere,
except possibly “wog”. The professions and institutions have been labelled
including psychology from whence Scn sprung. In fact even most scientologists are considered enemy unless they worship and obey “command intention”.
This needs pointing out!!
This has been made especially relevant by Leah Remini, former
poster child and now attacked for enquiring about the well being
of her friend.
Perfect post Marty! I left COS many, many years ago. I was in the outside world by myself and had to survive by myself after leaving abruptly toward other responsibilities I felt were more important, my children and family.
LRH gave me and others a gift if you were lucky enough to read, study and gain new awareness from all his research. I cannot think of one thing that did not help me survive better in the outside world. I was lucky enough to see help staff make huge changes in their lives and help them attain new awarenesses when things were good; that was 20 years ago.
Then numerous years ago I made a trip to Texas and I reconnected with you. I met your terrific and beautiful wife Mosey. We had conversations and discussions. My life changed again for the better. I was able to put aside all the confusions/upsets and things made more sense to me. I have now had the pleasure of visiting your Texas oasis’s numerous times since. Each and every single time my life changes for the better.
I have connected with other independents through the years. There are many wonderful independents out here. The issue that bothered me the most about this is that there is still this we and they mentality even within this group. “I know better than you think”, he is a “squirrel”, labeling each other. We all went through the same and similar crap that is why we are smart enough to be out here and not in there. We ALL had the cog!
There was one other point that stuck with me; that was the film of “Scientology at War”. That was when you said, “I grew up and he didn’t”. That is exactly what has happened to most of us. For me the WAR is over I grew up.
I think your comment is very interesting, courageous honest and very well written and reasoned. Each one of us is entitled to his own opinions, and none of us has the absolute truth. But to attack Warren personally without relating to the serious logical points in his comment is not fair.
My appreciation and Love for Marty is beyond words. He knows it. He (and others too) has been great inspiration to my escape and graduation from the cult, And all the wins and growth that I have experienced ever since. For a long period now, it is clear to me that my graduation was from an altered and corrupted version, not from Scientology itself as an entire subject. This is where Warren’s comment resonates with my observation/experience. And much of it makes sense. Why? Simple, I invite you all to review the following. I respect anybody’s view, but this also has to mean something:
For a whole year now I have been practicing Scientology as an Indie, in Dror Center, Israel. With the charming Dani and Tami Lemberger and a whole bunch of sweet Indie partners/staff. And the incredible positive and theta Claudio Lugli as the C/S. And by the way, in fact, this whole operation was set up by….Marty, who did the initial C/sing on my case and actually “Indied” Dror. (1000’s thanks again..your sensible remarks in: “what is wrong with Scientology” actually helped my auditing a lot, at that time). The results: Great year. Got out of “the big hole”. Back to my own (and such a nice) valence. Corrected all past troubles including CoS extreme abuse. Did OT4, the right way, not the squirreled one, had great wins…Yummy. On OT5, what a level. Having many many wins, and feeling gradually closer to myself. Soon I will go on to 7. And all along and parallel, working as usual, and having a ball with more and more friends, most of whom are not Scientologists (not a problem any more..ha ha … who cares?). And yes: Hard work, battling your own case and shadows. That’s the only hard work. And that is what I am getting at:
No enemies, no arbitraries, no enforced anything, Nada. (Only the endless joking needs to be graduated from, so work can continue -:) Just working for the PC and him only. And nothing is sacred. If I think something in the NOTS tech is not right for me, that’s fine and discussed openly and INTELLIGENTLY to my full satisfaction. It is such a happiness to work and do things like this. Bliss. Please believe. And if I find tomorrow, or after OT7 something better which goes higher, sure I will go for it. NOTHING is sacred. Only Truth. Scientology done right, is just a great tool to be used, not an aim. After using it right, by all means, let’s evaluate it. Honestly.
I rest my case. Actually not. next session on…Monday…
That’s great Hemi and you are welcome for getting the operation going. Within a couple of months of that your Executive Director formed a group that condemned me for not walking lock-step with it in enforcing Ron’s words literally. It did not discuss it. Instead, it labeled me a suppressive, Gestapo, SS, Nazi and, worse, attacked my wife. Your example is actually EXHIBIT B in support of the post here that you are commenting upon. Good luck.
I love this commentary. It hits home for me. Thanks for being there and for continuing, Marty. Consider me part of your support system.
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Thank you and that gal by your side.
That was cute.
That said than you should alsoo recognize his insights on human nature.
Alsoo it is not uncommon that grief is expressed with anger.
Anger: This stage of grief is common. It usually occurs when an individual feels helpless and powerless. Anger can stem from a feeling of abandonment because of a death or loss. Sometimes the individual is angry at a higher power, at the doctors who cared for the loved one, or toward life in general.
But maybe it has something to do with us.
Thx Christine for saying this this.
U R funny 🙂
Thank you Emilie. Well said. And yes, I have been on the receiving end of being disconnected from by Indies and being labeled “PTS by reason of being under the radar.” And the irony was that I had NO PTS phenomenon going on at that time when I was labelled that by an Indie. But after the forcing of wrong items on me and the inval of how bad I was to not publicly stick it to DM etc, then and only then did I actually go PTS! And my Indie auditor and I sorted it out and interestingly enough, it wasn’t the corporate church that was the item on the PTSness. Not at all…. it was the Indie who censured me for not coming out and who insisted that I was PTS. That enturbulation and dramatization of the winning valence and service facsimilies by him was what I went PTS to. So the take-away from my story here is to just please chill out and let other Indies live and let live. We are all finding our way as best we can under whatever burdens and circumstances we have to deal with. We should support each other rather than wrong-target each other. The enemy is OUT THERE and not each other. Nuff said.
Marty, are you fair enough to at least let this comment appear, so your readers will know that I attempted to reply to DeLacey, Tom Gallagher, Agnostic Reader, G. Gaspar, and Moonshot, but you moderated out those replies?
Yes, with the clarification that none of those replies met the long-standing, published moderation policy of my blog. In short, that is that I treat discussions here as if it were taking place in my South Texas living room. Comments like those moderated out are so combative, misleading and false that I you would be bringing dissonance and disharmony to my guests. Something inappropriate at Casablanca, even if it is perfectly normal and acceptable on L. Ron Hubbard Way.
Some of this is silly. It’s incredibly ironic that some here, especially those who have never been involved in Scientology want to believe that it’s not OK for Scientology to create enemies but it is OK for them to make an enemy out of Scientology which is a subject that they know very little about. Something smells here. Practice what you preach. Jesus said it best when he said “Hate the sine but love the sinner.” Try that.
Well, that sounds like a sensible policy. But, the comments from those 5 readers were “combative, misleading, and false” against ME, and “would bring dissonance and disharmony to (one of) your guests” — ME. Also, most of those comments were significantly more vicious than my replies to them. So why did you allow those 5 readers to violate your “longstanding, published moderation policy,” and then not let me call a spade a spade in defending myself?
Because a) you reap what you sow, and b) this is not Warren Marston’s living room.
Perfect selection! Love that song! 🙂
The need for an enemy is most often, as I see it, the way to avoid the pain, insecurity, and loss that recognizing the flaws and weaknesses within oneself or with what one is strongly identifying with or has attached to that the “enemy situation” has brought up, that is contributing to the seeing of individuals and/or organizations as enemies.
It is often used to justify one’s failures or the failures of one’s “attachings” while making them the noble, to be favored and supported warrior.
When one can take the actions and accusations of an “enemy” and use them to become more aware, more responsible, less effect, more objective, more transparent… to turn that “negative” into a very glad that it happened positive, the enemy becomes a friend.
Repeated pointing out of Ron’s extreme messed up behaviors by you and others seems to only serve make him into an enemy; rather than a human being desperately needing a bit of his own WORKABLE technology.
Additionally, when you say that Ron wasn’t like you or me I’m afraid that it’s a bit of a delusion in so far as all of us are capable of being as “bad” as Ron but for some reason we’ve reined ourselves in and or not been caught.
As for being as smart as Ron and creating some workable technology — perhaps not. BUT I’ll be even that is not true.
We are much more alike ALL OF US than we are different.
Firstly, we all bleed red.
Typo — sorry:
BUT I’ll be even that is not true.
Should be — BUT I’ll BET even that is not true.
Such a beautiful post!
“But when you graduate from it, there will still be a path to follow that was the path you thought you had set foot on in the first place.”
Yes! That intention doesn’t die.
“Despite all flaws, Ron had an immense appreciation of the position of the spiritual aspect of man in relation to action and behavior. I believe it was his flaws that endowed him with his vision.”
Now, that there is some insight.
“It is not your success as an auditor that will add to your beingness, it will be your failures and how you deal with them and learn from them that will do you well.”
So true. And the same exact thing could be said about the failures of Ron and Scientology. It’s “how you deal with them and learn from that that will do you well.”
Great post, 2ndxmr. The whole thing. 🙂
“There are also those who will attack the viewpoint that Scientology is not valuable, or at least not worth the cost.”
That’s true. I guess it comes down to how well we communicate with each other, rather than “attack”, that determines the result of any discussion about it – that is to say, if and how much we benefit from the exchanges. Ironically, the whole subject of successful communication might have been Ron’s greatest contribution, IMO. If we could all agree to and apply those principles, embodied in the TRs and maybe the Auditor’s Code as well, we would get somewhere. Would you agree with that, or don’t you give that body of knowledge the kind of credit I do?
Note: That comment to the post was written 1st, earlier than my reply to Warren. Hemi
The truth is the truth, and the measure of truth is it’s applicability and results. With this I think even Ron would agree. If one considers there are parts of Scientology that are something other than the truth, then graduating from it makes sense – especially if one considers that the Church equals Scientology. If one considers that there are truths that exist beyond the scope of Scientology, and could expand upon its workability, then graduating also makes sense in this case. It is undeniable that there are extremely valuable truths within the technology of Scientology. I do not believe that Marty has ever said anything to dispute that. I do not get that he is suggesting we “throw out the baby with the bath water.” He is merely saying that we align our purposes to something higher toned than fighting enemies, and graduate to a higher plane of operating basis.
What is your point?
MODERATOR NOTE: GREAT, THEN GO ARGUE WITH SOME PEOPLE IN THE STREET.
Marty, thank you!
Warren, it should be apparent to you now that when you’re invited into someone’s living room it’s bad manners to attack the host and tell him that he’s corrupt and ignorant. Then when others question your intentions, you accuse THEM of being vicious?
just in case it was not clear: your part in the happy, winning, “Dror Center” activity mentioned above – is as major as anybody else’s. And my ED will surely agree.
And regarding these German labels, I do know a bit about them. Even here in Israel they are being thrown now and then in political conflicts. I was labeled that by a CoS Senior official not long ago. Sad.
In most cases those who use them are just stupid or ignorant or both. And Extremely careless. You know what I think about those labeling you like that. My ED could not have labeled you so. I do not wish to get into details on this sensitive issue here, beyond suggesting, asking, begging, that the linkage between individuals in a group, regarding overt behavior,
be looked upon less severely. That’s the best my poor English can offer long after midnight…. Ok, just one more try:
Please as the eastern Masters taught: let us try to…Let Go.
And as you teach, wisely: Let us graduate from the need to have enemies.
And as I suggested: If we do handle enemies, let’s handle only true ones.
“Only the insane keep fighting.”
Tell that to those who have lost friends and family to the cult. Tell it to the kids who were ditched by their SO parents. Tell it to those who were abused, imprisoned and beaten. Or the relatives of those who have died whilst in this “church”‘s care.
Most will continue to fight the Co$ until real, REAL justice is done. To imply such efforts are “insane” is, imho, sickening.
I only bring things up because it is still taboo. The ingrained suppression to not be critical of Ron is laid in deep. Very deep.
The linch pin that holds many dichotomies in place is an honest obnosis of Ron himself.
But years and years and years of Jo Burg and group agreement that any criticism is the fault of the criticizer will always find ridges against my views. Something will always be wrong with me or those that have their views about Ron.
Seeing someone unmasked is not making them into an enemy. Seeing the true nature of someone minus all the glitz and glamour of PR and marketed image is important for understanding the true nature of a person.
There is a strong lack of comfort discussing the faults of Ron. But easy to discuss the faults of Scientology. Why is that Christine?
Why is the word Scientology always used when discussing atrocities but not Ron, the guy who wrote, organized and trained the black ops that harmed people. The answer to this question can only be answered by oneself.
I send Ron right here and now good will and good wishes. I send him love across the airwaves of vibratory space knowing that a pure heart hits its mark. Mr. Hubbard you are not my enemy, you are my brother, you are a fellow soul wending his way back to Truth.
But Ron once said, ” never let your affinity overwump your reality.”
I love that line and frequently credit Ron when I share that with friends.
“never let you affinity overwump your reality.” I can have affinity for someone and still know the reality of them.
The reality of Ron has been made into a myth by the powerful machine of words, marketing and organization. And more importantly by the minds agreeing with that myth.
I suggest reading the new version of Jon Atack’s book. I could not put it down, just like I could not put down Marty’s latest book.
Here is my take on the difference:
Marty’s book is a story of a Scientologist insider waging war on critics and safeguarding the existence of Scientology.
Jon’s book is from the outside and the devastating effects that war inflicted on people. It illustrates the violence done in the name of protecting the only way peppered here and there with destroyed lives. And that war was always orchestrated by Ron.
But he learned his lesson on being fabian quite well after Snow White. His wrath had just begun to weed out the squirrels. It was time to scorch and burn the outside field of Scientology.
I may at some point be dumped by Marty, I may not. I respect his tolerance of me thus far. But I know I push the envelope.
And that envelope’s limitation was well established by Ron with the sec check ,” Have you ever had a critical thought about L Ron Hubbard?’
When it is totally ok to be critical of Ron, that piece of brainwashing will have been transcended.
And instead of it being a fault with me, about me for bringing it up, we will be able to have an intelligent unflinching discussion about Ron.
Read Jon Atack’s book. I have read almost all of the books out there. This one…………………….. this one will………..rearrange some neuro- pathways for sure.
Thank for your patience Marty
Yes I do recognize some of his insights.
But I also know the reason this blog exists at all is not because things worked out to well for some of those insights.
Scientology is seen as a dangerous cult by the planet that was supposed to be made clear by Scientology. Scientology is an organization born from Ron’s insights. What does that say about his insights into human nature that human’s consider Scientology diabolical.
It will always be someone else’s fault: an SP, non standard application etc etc.
It is not the good stuff in Scientology that broke Scientology. It is the dangerous stuff, the doctrines written by Ron when his insights were far from insightful.
This crazy scenario, is the byproduct, of one man. A man who lived to fight enemies. A man who defined his value by the size of his enemies and how much destruction he could mete out on those enemies.
Ron’s enemies were in Ron’s head, in his thoughts. The outside world started looking like an enemy because it became a self fulfilling prophesy. But the true nature of the enemy was subjective within Ron’s psychology.
Down on emotions in Scientology…………. up with enemies.
The true graduation of Scientology from one who has been out since 1982 is a comfortable viewing into the deep recesses of L. Ron Hubbard.
You will find layers and layers lifting. But that road is a solo one. And getting past the repulsion to being critical is the first step.
The cognitions will be surprising! And they will be yours alone.
You do not know CD’s history, do you? He came to this blog after being a hard core anti-Scientologist. Frankly, your inability to get over the negatives makes you look like a hard core bigot. If you cannot get off of hatred as a tone level I don’t that you will continue to serve a useful purpose to the transcendence process this blog is operated for.
As per my other message, that patience is running thin.
“that is the problem with differences in reality…..”
Not so my friend. There is no problem. Everyone is entiltled to their own opinions and beliefs. Thier “reality.” However, nobody, save the deluded, dishonest, propagandist, or government statistician is entitled to their own facts.
It is a fact that the current CofS is corrupt and that the culture it propagates is corruptive. Those like you and Warren are welcome to rant against Marty for daring to point out the obvious, but the facts are on his side.
Where i personally disagree with Marty is in terms of presetation, not substance. But this is Marty’s blog and he has his own personality. That i might present things differently or try to soften the blow doesnt change the fact the the basis of his premise is simple observable fact.
The other area open to fertile disagreement with Marty is what should be done about the things Marty and other critics of the Church point out. But to assail Marty with ones “reality” in an effort to bury one’s head in the sand and argue against the fact of the dead body laying in the open on the cold stone floor is absurd.
“My ED could not have labeled you so.” Of course not. And so the discussion ends. And QED on my post, and all the others that demonstrate Scientology’s ‘listen, don’t look’ implants. And when you’ve completed your bridge, I’ll be here for you when you are ready to graduate.
Gee, another 2.0 bat back. How surprising!
Marty, I have good news for you. I’m through with your blog. I’m not going to post on it, or even read it anymore, as it no longer contains anything of value.
Thanks for your expose of DM. That was great. Helping people to “graduate” from the current Church is a commendable. Unfortunately, helping them to “graduate” from Scientology itself is a suppressive act.
My opposing you on that was actually a help flow to you. It’s too bad you couldn’t have it.
OK. That’s it. I hereby disconnect from you.
Moonshot, you must have missed that 2ndxmr clearly alluded to the fact you mention about the corruption of the CoS, which he called post “cusp”. He wrote:
“I agree with Warren on how it was pre ’80. I entered at a point on the cusp and saw both sides. The pre-cusp side I could identify with; the post I never did, despite those attempts to make me.”
That is probably the best decision for all concerned!
Or the “….cast the first stone” quote
This post made me start reflecting on the idea that most of what is posted here is “CoS-centric”. That is the matrix out of which we are growing. I don’t see people who have known nothing but Ron”s Orgs as “Scientology”, for example, posting here about some need to “graduate from scientology”. Yet I imagine that there are individuals who have done that, too. But I doubt the ROs are as constricting of individual growth as the CoS is and has been. I imagine they operate much more focusing on delivery of core tech rather than various kinds of fundraising for no return and marching in politically correct lockstep, disconnecting from others who maybe march to different drums along the way. Or who even do not march to any drum.
Good observation by Wieber:
“”When Scientology first contacts a person to bring them into the organization the entire presentation to the person is all about them, their problems in life and how Scientology can help them deal with the problems in their life to make their life better. Note that with the vast majority of people brought into Scientology (or any cult) the cult makes contact and brings the person in. It does happen where people come into the cult on their own but it is very rare.
Only after the person is sufficiently indoctrinated does Scientololgy bring in the dwindling spiral, and Hubbard’s version of an end of days scenario in which Scientololgy is the only way that the world can be salvaged. This is pretty much a ubiquitous feature of every cult. The details vary.
At that point Scientology, and every other cult, changes their focus with the individual. The deal is no longer how the organization can help the person but that the person must take responsibility and contribute to the organization with all their energy, and worldly material wealth, which is, by the way, only mest, and nothing to do with the spiritual gains awaiting the person. But in the meantime there is a world full of SPs that has to be dealt with and time is rapidly running out.
None of that is true, but the euphoria from the indoctrination was real and is attributed to the special powers of the organization.
Now get this. The whole entire purpose of Scientology and any other cult is to provide the organization’s leader with wealth and material comfort. Everything else about the organization involves deception to hide that fact and manipulation to bring it about. Until a person involved with a cult confronts and accepts that to some extent the cult will have a hold on them”…
With 55 “OT Levels” I would guess that you are mistaken.
You said “Why is that Christine” — regarding criticizing Ron versus criticizing scientology.
Because in my case, I don’t presume to speak for others, there is nothing NEW in your criticism of LRH that hasn’t been brought up at one time on this blog or others.
It then just becomes more criticism for the sake (IMHO) of criticism to show — WOW — I’m not longer brainwashed.
But I’d say — well, maybe not brainwashed but certainly now rather stuck in being “an expert” on Ron criticism … as Atack seems to be. I mean – does he get an audience with Ortega simply discussing his own life — hardly.
The title of this post is “Graduating Scientology” — so to be on topic — you’d be discussing something you might have discovered out of the scientology/LRH/ box.
There once was a Brian who posted here who was a buddhist/gnostic type of guy – I’m guessing that isn’t you —
Either that or you’ve forgotten the mahayana.
And please don’t tell me that until those of us who were once scientologists can sit and discuss and slice up LRH OR ANYONE ELSE then we can’t really know the mahayana.
Part of graduating is the wish for others to be free from suffering — IMHO — and that would include LRH — not dissing him. (or anyone else)
I have little enough info, only what’s available online, and no first hand experience with Ron’s Orgs. Oh, I have no doubt there is an ideology involved, any human group has some kind of ideology or ethos, but I do not sense that the R.O.s have the same flavor as the CoS – especially today’s CoS. The ROs seem to resenble more the field office/mission system thatexisted
My impression is they offer services to those who want services and have a more live and let live attitude, as well as offering the “original” OT levels in addition to the “new” OT levels, plus the “CBR Bridge”, whatever that is. Those upper “levels” often sound more like some kind of “hatting” than anything else.
Anyway, my point is that the ROs have now been around long enough that they represent in many ways a different “matrix”, and there are many people by now who have no other experience of “scientology” than the ROs, and I would guess their take on Scientology might be pretty different from the take of a person whose experience of it was all in the “official” CoS.
But that is all speculation on my part.
However, no 2 “congregations” even of the same nominally Christian denominations are alike. They can differ widely. I don’t see any reason why that would not be true also of “congregations” based on the basic scientology teachings.
I probably do not give that body of knowledge the same credit that you do, but then I do not know your background (experience, observations, comparisons) and you don’t know mine. From what I’ve read from you so far, your experience and observation is extensive. Me, I feel like I’ve grown up in a cargo cult – worshipping something forever out of reach and becoming increasingly more unreal, with no real knowledge or visble application of the inner workings. I feel confused by sweeping, contradictory statements and application and am grateful to those minds who can see to the underlying principles and perhaps put them in a language that is not loaded or condemnatory.
I agree that being able to comfortably be there and grant beingness to the other party is necessary for a reasonable debate. I think it’s great if you are passionate about the tech and would like other people to have first-hand experience of its value. I just don’t get why it’s not OK if someone doesn’t agree (except, of course, where they try to stop you from doing so because they think it is harmful, and that is where things get very complicated and this discussion goes off topic, and we’re in to staking out territories and then conquering the other guy’s territory and subjugating him).
Actually, the excerpt from Fowler’s observation on stages of adolescence feels familiar. Perhaps my territoriality thing is not so far off the mark. Part of adolescence includes separating from one’s parents and further developing one’s identity. Look at the video gaming community and you find religious wars on who is better, Intel or AMD? (chip makers) Nvidia or AMD? (graphics card makers) Literally, internet flame wars. Who is right? The die hards are derogatively termed “fanboys”. They identify with a brand and defend it to the death and make war on the non-believers. I used to do that, too. Now all I care about is which chip/card/whatever will do what I am getting it for.
Self-improvement is a personal matter. I love coffee. I don’t love the green smoothie health purist preaching to me how I’m ruining my health and essentially telling me what to do on my turf. So I get how, if a person felt that Scientology is perfect, they would be happy with it and not like it when another person tells them what to do with it on their turf.
But that other person, as far as I’m concerned at least, can further develop Scientology, or leave it and turn to something else entirely on their own turf. And they can put the message out on what they think about it. And those interested can chime in. Perhaps problems arise where we start telling each other what to do with our own interests on our own turf.
From my background and experience, Scientology tech is a set of tools, the application of most of which I ironically only know from hearsay. Personally, I view them as tools. Flexible, plastic, not rigid. Probably effective in a client-centred setting. To be discarded, used and improved upon. Why not? I don’t know that Scientology tech as-is is the only way out of the trap. I don’t even know I’m trapped. I’ve only be told so.
How would you apply TRs and the AC in discussion with someone who does not appreciate the tech?
It is seriously pathetic to see someone run away and disconnect from another after a simple disagreement. Not a very good advert for this “real” Scientology you speak so highly of. By your actions it seems to have exactly the same whiff as the “real” Scientology of the modern day Co$, and the “real” Scientology of some of the Indie cults that now operate. Funny that.
Much of what you consider a perfect, sacred system that shouldn’t be argued, improved upon or integrated, was “squirrelled” from others. Imagine if Freud, Korzybski, Crowley or even Buddhist groups considered their texts to be so sacred that any attempt made to “graduate” people from unthinking faith in their material was considered a “suppressive act”, worthy of disconnection. What if Hubbard had been labelled a squirrel or an SP by the APA? (Wouldn’t that mean, per his own beliefs, he must have had M/Us or even O/Ws on Freud?).
Yes, you’re right. It’s batshit insane. So why do you do it?
I think if one is a SCNist in the sense of seeking more responsibility and generaly improvement, will eventually probably want to ‘graduate’ in the sense of seeking more that the current COS Bridge offers, not being engaged in war games against bad people (psychs, DM etc). There is no reason for any war, from a responsible point of view.
If one is a SCNist in the sense of just waving the SCN flag…he probably expects too much that the group will take responsibility for him. And I think that’s bad news, as one then may want to become what the group wants him to be. In the case of the COS, I guess you have to choose between being an ethics cop or a huble follower more or less –sort of like the SP/PTS game. And then he can go around to handle other people’s PTSness, 3rd party, black PR etc for the joke of it 😛
One of the reasons I quit staff the second time was that I refused to join a protest against the French embassy –not only because I didn’t want to protest, but I had no knowledge of what was going on. All I had was an order to go and protest along with the others. And that’s how I was supposed to take responsibility for the world –by giving up responsibility for myself (?!). One needs to have some gross MUs -or be ignorant- to agree with this stuff…
Anyway, the ethics officer then decided to put ethics on me, because it’s unethical to not do whatever you’re told [it’s not the greatest good(?!)]. (If the COS told you to go *beep* yourself, you ought to do it. That’s what all lectures about self determinism being alligned with ethics say.) So, I announced in turn my desire to leave staff and then of course I was guilty of O/Ws etc (my O/W being that I shouldn’t be in that group in the first place, though I never wrote it down). And the righteous ethics officer put some more ethics in by 3rd partying a beloved to me person against me, as -unlike me- she was very ethical and I shouldn’t take her down the mud along with me. I know, it’s the usual story. But I’m kinda like proud I didn’t mock up reasons to join that protest. Being a good member of that group, and knowing some basic stuff about SCN, just don’t go together.
Thank you Brian, I am glad you are our for 31 years and you can make up your own mind, I have never been “ïn” and belonged to no religion.
I wish you all the best
Beautiful truth!! Thanks Marty. I am finding every day it is blissful to be out in the real, beautiful world helping real, beautiful people. :-))
For all that come to watch and or post here.
By Chris Mann/DFB, Lyrics by Cowboy Poët
Great write up…
Exactly how I feel, you look and just scratch your head!!
A group who’s basis is that the solution for all problems is communication: Not using communication??
Truth be told, we are just a bit of nothingness trying to have fun!!
It all has to do with KRC!!!
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Yes I understand Marty. I do think I have reached the end myself. Funny…. Graduating Scientology is a fitting title for my exist.
Your blog and others have allowed me to relive and re evaluate subtle traces of a once agreed upon doctrine within me. And you have allowed me to get things off my chest. You call it hate I call it getting the elephant in the room acknowledged after the relief of finding it myself.
I have been able to witness within myself the subtle energetic connection I once had with the man Ron and lift a few more layers of views and perspectives not considered of value anymore. Things I learned from HIM through his projection called Scientology.
I hope any thoughts expressed by me have been helpful if not challenging to people. I thank any lurkers that popped up from time to time to thank me for my views. And any challengers for communicating on subjects that would have had you RPFed in the day.
I have reached a break in reality with you and you with me. That reality is Ron himself.
There is still religious fever towards Ron. His name untouchable. Only his offspring, Scientology can be judged, but not it’s creator.
Ron was expert at never being blamed, at hiding from responsibility and blaming others. Flinching at a deeper look into the man and calling it hate is proof positive that his uncanny ability to crush critics still lives within the mind of his devotees.
Good wishes on making a better more benevolent form of Scientology Marty. That was also one of my wishes for the tech.
I may be gone now. But your having to have to answer to the existence and reality of Ron will not end with me. These same questions will be relentless by others. The questions will stop when the elephant is let out of the room and given space to freely roam and breathe easy. But first the elephant must not be denied.
Brian Thomas Lambert
Thank you Windhorse for your take on me. I do understand I am pushing the envelope. Please read my graduation post to Marty above.
May your meditations, Windhorse, find grace and beauty ever at the center of your chosen practice. And may that joy come surging ever more!
Thanks. Your communication is misleading, at best, to the extent it attempts to characterize me. For example, your sum up ‘There is still religious fever towards Ron. His name untouchable. Only his offspring, Scientology can be judged, but not it’s creator’ is rather contrary to what I have covered in my books and on this blog. I have only attempted to curb your proclivity for repeated rants that define Ron soley by his personal faults – with no room for an intelligent, balanced inspection. Hate will rebound; always does. In either event, best of luck.
Spyros, Your story is one of a kind unique to only you, so don’t discount it. I”m sorry to hear the out tech and pain you went through. I applaud you that you didn’t buckle down and go against your integrity and protest against your will without knowing all the details. I wasn’t that lucky. I blindly protested both in Portland against Julie Christopherson and in LA against Wollersheim, not knowing anything other than we were told to. Now upon reading about what really went on in both cases, I wouldn’t have protested at either of them. And I don’t think the church should have gotten IRS tax exempt privileges by beign called a religion. It might have been one when LRH first wrote, but when DM took over it was anything but a religion.
“It is seriously pathetic to see someone run away and disconnect from another after a simple disagreement. Not a very good advert for this Scientology you speak so highly of. By your actions it seems to have exactly the same whiff as the “real” Scientology of the modern day Co$, and the “real” Scientology of some of the Indie cults that now operate. Funny that.”
M Westen, your truth bears repeating, so I did. I have experienced this in the Indie world where after a simple disagreement, instead of using “the universal solvent” to get back in ARC, the Indie just disconnected with many damning and derrogatory put downs and make wrongs in the process. To disconnect from someone because they pissed you off or don’t agree with you? That is too much like the corporate Co$ that we just left and claim to be moving on up from… interesting.
Thanks for everything Marty, and happy trails on your adventure 🙂
Good point, however, not everyone has lost their family and friends yet is compulsively fighting. Maybe if you stop fighting, and start granting, even your radical “friends” and family, their beingness the situation will resolve. It’s like trying to fight a convinced Muslim. You won’t gain his trust as long as you keep on harping about his believes, even if those believes include subjugating woman, stoning adulterers, etc. You think Scientology is that horrible evil cult. It’s actually a Sunday school of cheers and laughter compared to the kind of things we hear and see Christians, Muslims and Jews do to each other in the name of their religion.
There is nothing left for me to do But
To shrink and become a point.
The only point.
Penetrating all emptinesses of existence,
Search with joy
And find with pain,
Another, Only point.
With an endless scream die,
To become the turning point.
But how can I grow so much
To become a point?
Who said anything about beliefs?
For all the years and/or money spent learning to be a kick-ass super being and they end up with all the “abilities” of a petulant child. What a waste.
Imagine if such people were in charge. The world would crumble in the space of a day!
What a thoughtful post you wrote! I really appreciated how candid and insightful it was. Here’s one thing you wrote that struck me:
“I feel confused by sweeping, contradictory statements and application and am grateful to those minds who can see to the underlying principles and perhaps put them in a language that is not loaded or condemnatory.”
You made me think of an idea I’ve had that keeps coming to mind, which is that I would like to see someone start up a blog or forum where the above could be discussed by those who were interested in sorting out the contradictions – or seeming contradictions – and/or just learning more about Scientology. It seems to be a good format to learn by discussion – live ARC.
My training isn’t actually that extensive, only lower-classed auditor training, but I had several years’ experience as a Word Clearer. That was what gave me confidence that the basic principles and tech are not contradictory once you have a fairly good conceptual understanding. One of the biggest sources of difficulties in Scientology, IMHO, was lack of training by individuals and lack of good training available in course rooms where the full body of study tech is used.
At the risk of being too simplistic, I would also say that the contradictions that exist can roughly be grouped into (1) what LRH wrote in the books, including the changes that evolved as research continued, and (2) the various PLs and other issues he wrote that came about later when he had real-life enemies to contend with and decided to operate at the level of force. That may or may not have been the best choice he had in order to at least prevent Scientology from being wiped out. And his own case was most likely in play as well. But that is all beside the point of what can and should be salvaged now – for those who are interested – as you so correctly, IMO, indicated.
As for discussions, I think your “territorial thing” was right on the mark and I agree that things certainly can get complicated. Just like you, I’ve learned some lessons along those lines – first thing you know you’re in a games condition and have thus reduced your own ability to think freely and further develop your own understanding of things.
So how would I apply TRs and the Auditor’s Code in discussion with someone who does not appreciate the tech? Well, as I say, I’ve learned some things the hard way and have come to the conclusion that each person should be allowed to have a viewpoint without giving OR getting a lot of eval and inval – and, like you said, put things in a way that “is not loaded or condemnatory”. To me, that’s another way of saying saying to apply TRs and the Auditor’s Code. Just think about it – a simple ack, for example, is truly magical! Have you ever noticed that? Right there is an example of the genius of LRH. A good ack can change your whole world.
Thanks for your well-spoken post – and that’s my heartfelt ack. 🙂
“Me, I feel like I’ve grown up in a cargo cult – worshipping something forever out of reach and becoming increasingly more unreal, with no real knowledge or visble application of the inner workings. ”
Someone has run a “Can’t Have” on you.
What are the copy cat and substitute groups out here running? “You can’t have a session, so become a member”. It’s a way of running a “Can’t Have” that is very subtle.
Bring it within your reach. Step beyond your doubt and give room for your curiosity and desire. We set up “safety nets” that become prisons. And the gate keepers make you “comfortable” with substitutes that feel like a “Have” when you “Have nothing”.
It is all within your reach.
Good post, Val.
I see it this way, The bathwater is thrown out, now let’s see if the infant will survive. Deserves an honest chanche.
Oh dear, David you couldn’t get that of the Internet now could you
fighting chanche that is.
As I said to you in the e-mail, whether you are PTS or not only you can say for sure. I did not insist on anything. I did ask you the question regarding whether a person who expressed fear at the concept of being ‘found out’ might be demonstrating a cowed viewpoint. (See Mike Rinders Blog today)
As I said to you, I noticed that it was true for me and I felt beneficial results when I spoke out. You have to make your own decision about that.
My desire to limit our correspondence was over a different matter and I was referring to the drama associated with the concept of being 2d terminals which you know we are not.
Your comment :
:”And yes, I have been on the receiving end of being disconnected from by Indies and being labeled “PTS by reason of being under the radar.”
You have not been labeled and I am not one qualified to do so in any case. That is your decision. Please reread the e-mail I sent you. Sorry for the upset.
Coop, I was commenting on an excellent article here. If you have any comments to direct at me specifically, take it outside. This is a public forum.
Skip the 1st minute though, it’s just some bitter natter.. =]
Hello & thanks. I’ve had my share of blindly following, protesting, fighting too -not just in SCN- but I think much less than the standard, righteous members. What matters is that eventually I learned what I always knew. Who hasn’t wondered in the Church ‘how come we 3rd party, black PR, suppress, 1.1 at…’?
As I posted on another article here I graduated myself but not quite the same way that Marty has. Due to my Celiac and past education Learning can be hard. Kind of like ADHD. It causes brain damage as well as all kinds of damage. So I broke my church think through reading other things along the same lines that Marty has but they were documentaries and listening to the Resource based economy data and they talk of these things as well.
Reading your blog is also helping me with parts that they can’t touch for most of them have never been in Scientology. (I have run into a few that have been.)
I never trained to be an auditor and now I am glad I did not. I would like to learn stuff that has value to it and not just because LRH’s opinion of it is being taken as gospel. So I too take data that works from everywhere so I am not one who liked a lot by the standard tech guys. (I used to be one of them. LOL)
Thanks for helping me shed the false data. If I had trained I would have more of them. Now I have judgement where before I was a robot following orders.
Celiac does not make things easy for me as well. I had it most of my life so learning has always been hard since a child. It is not what the cult told me why the issue is. They missed the boat with me.