News on the premiere of Alex Gibney’s HBO documentary on scientology:
WOAI – San Antonio
Wall Street Journal
New York Times
International Business Times
New York Post
Thank you Marti
I hope you get to see the show soon, too. Great work.
Right now, 129 news articles on the subject according to Google News. The number is still increasing. Thank you!
Thank you, Marty. I appreciate being able to see all these reviews. It’s heartening for those of us who have left that this film is a substantial deterrent to other people being duped into Scientology.
Last night, I stayed up late (I’m on the East Coast) to keep up with the opening of the film. This morning I went to “The Underground Bunker” to catch up on all that had happened. This collection of articles by Mark are wonderful, and although most of them stick on the sensational cruise Kidman junk (NY Post..oh boy) there are some serious discussion of other facts in the movie and almost all of them mention the reaction to the movie by scientology. Lies and more lies…oh boy!?!?
I am eager to what takes place in the next few weeks with scientology. Something tells me that scientology will try to either stop the Documentary from showing on HBO, or start suing everyone involved. Either way, it’s gonna get real interesting. This could actually drive miscavige out of the woodwork and into the light for some real bashing exposure. We’ll see.
Thanks Mark for the links, and any news one that you may come across in your travels on the internet.
Great work Marty. Thanks for making a difference.
I have long discounted the people in charge of Ron’s work, while supporting the premise as sound, is there a reorganization in the works that removes the abuses inherent to hierarchies, privilege and power, while making the workable parts of the science available?
It’s about time…this is a long-time coming!
Well done my friend, for being one of the most influential people who first exposed Scn’s crimes:
Witnessing first-hand at Casa Blanca Miscavige’s ruthless harassment of you & Mosey, as well as having a son who’s been disconnected for almost 20 years, and never met his children-this expose’ is most welcomed!
You should be proud of yourself, as I am of both you & Mosey!
Flourish & prosper!
Thank you Marty. I saw also more than 600 guests on Scientology-Cult just now and certainly there are more viewers on your and all the other Blogs regarding Scientology. A bitter blow for them.
It’s your ‘karma’ that is out to get you.
Really liked the way you are handling your deposition. 🙂
Marti, thanks all that you do!
A year or two ago I wasn’t sure of my feelings on COS.
I was a staff member for a while (decades ago), and some family members
involved in the past and current.
Thanks to you and others over your blogs, YouTube videos, etc.,
I can understand now, and be okay with the good and bad of
what I experienced and learned. And no longer feeling I need the COS to be “free”, nor have my money freed from me.
Great articles! Here’s a telling quote from the International Business Times:
“After a question-and-answer session from Gibney, author Lawrence Wright and the documentary’s participants were shielded by a group of volunteers who formed a human chain around them, most likely as a security precaution.”
From the New York Post (a different article from the one linked in the blog post), here’s an example of the CoS modus operandi:
“Gibney shows how Scientology’s apparently coordinated effort to launch some 2,400 lawsuits against the IRS led the commissioner of that much-beloved agency to break down and grant the Scientologists a tax exemption on religious grounds in 1993 that finally legitimized the organization, wiped clean its tax bill of more than $1 billion and put it on such secure financial footing that it today holds more than $3 billion in assets.”
The link to the above quote: http://nypost.com/2015/01/26/going-clear-scientology-doc-makes-for-compelling-cinema/
The same article ends with this:
“The film, slated to debut on HBO in March, is an impressive, adroit, often spellbinding achievement, one that took considerable courage to put together. It doesn’t add a lot to what was known about the church, but it puts it all in a compact format that hits Scientology squarely in the thetans.”
Orange County, I am glad you put some distance and created some space between you and the organization. You mentioned the good and the bad, and that’s an important point. On January 10th, Jon Atack was give some ink on Toney Ortegas blog. Atack is a critic and author as I suspect you know. His final paragraph stood out to me as he acknowledged there being some benefit in some of the “tech”. Here is what he said in his final paragraph;
“Most, if not all, Scientology “processes” are borrowed and may have virtue. Many people use visualization (which Hubbard called “creative processing” when he borrowed it from Aleister Crowley) and hypnotherapy has many advocates. I am not one. It is the setting that makes Scientology so invidious, not the practices of themselves. As a form of age regression, Dianetics has its virtues, but I have no time for age regression, because of the tendency to generate false memories (see Richard Ofshe’s excellent Making Monsters or the remarkable work of Elizabeth Loftus on this subject). Best, as you have done, to reject the lot and investigate one technique at a time, before proceeding! Enjoy your meditation!”
I don’t think any of us falsely imagined getting some benefits from some of the procedures we used. The main thing is that the material is available in other places and equal if not greater benefit can be attained. One can avoid all the conditioning, thought control, egoism and other downsides. One does not, nor should one have to enter a mouse trap and risk it all to get some cheese. Over the past several years this Blog’s contributors have offered an enormous amount of information on moving up a little higher, or a lot. Marty’s recommended reading list is another good resource. To sum it up, I agree with you that there is some good material (cheese) there. Being able to step back and see that its inside a mousetrap is what many here are trying to point out so others can avoid the trap or pull themselves from it. That process of disengagement itself should contains some growing pains but the resulting wisdom is well worth it for those who make the effort.
Thanks for your participation in the film and the update! Finally our voices are being heard LOUDLY!
Congratulations Marty. Thanks for doing what you do. From what I can gather from the reviews this has your handwriting all over it. The CO$ celebrities are now faced with a sure sunset of their careers or to come clean and face the abuses and stop supporting them.
Excellent. It is good to see all these reviews, but better to have someone like Alex, the Director, to put it all together and expose it in a broader way so awareness of the real crimes and abuses can come to the attention of many and eventually end.
Alex could not have done it without your input and the others that joined you. So, a REAL thank you to you.
Going Clear. I went clear on the Int Rundown in a mission. I had Class 8 auditors and Cs’s handling my case, I got auditing at staff rates from these wonderful tech terminals and got alot of student auditing. I went clear and it was amazing, a totally different case state, totally different awareness, my life changed, it was wonderful. Can this ever happen again in Scientology for anyone, I hope it can.
Nice work Marty as I feel your contributions have been great.
BTW, I feel the press made one mistake here as follows: The International Business Times states “Rathbun, who was responsible for auditing high-profile members of the church, said during one session Cruise was frustrated with his relationship with Kidman and joked that he wanted to know what she was doing.” It is my guess this statement from Cruise was not a statement Cruise “said during one session” or else Marty wouldn’t have revealed it.
“News on the premiere of Alex Gibney’s HBO documentary on scientology”
And then there’s so much more..
We can add Yahoo to the list; it seems the church had been sending Yahoo statements re the film…
It was painful for me to watch. That little cloak and dagger interviewer. Bringing up a “letter”, asking Marty to read the “letter”, as if it was some impromptu note Marty scribbled off before bedtime.
These are NOT “letters”. The whole interview at that point was based on a lie. These are essays one is forced to write when forced to decide if one is a friend or enemy. And the whole basis of it is a presumption that the person writing it has NOT been a friend. What malarkey.
Does Miscavige tell his legal people , “It is against my religion to co operate with the demands of civil law. ”
Per the ethics codes of the Church:
“Delivering up the person of a Scientologist without defense or protest to the demands of civil or criminal law.”
It is against their codes to co operate with the demands of civil law! So why do they pretend? They can not testify or bear witness on one another,even if someone is being a criminal.
“Delivering up the person of a Scientologist without defense or protest to the demands of civil or criminal law.” SUPPRESSIVE ACT.
I do agree Marty handled it very well. That interviewer ……Geeze what some people will do to make a mortgage payment. Repelling.
The documentary received stellar reviews. It is part of the art community now. This testimony has been converted into an art form, it can not be suppressed. The truth has floated to the top of the aesthetic band. Where truth belongs.
People that speak the truth and forward the truth are not suppressive. They bring the light in. They shed light upon this world.
Standing ovation to Marty.
thanks very much Marty for your post !
I hope to see it soon somehow. Actually I started to read Lawrence Wrights book. Best wishes to you and your family !!
Also saw the more recent addition re your deposition. Good work and keep it up. You have lots of support from lots of us and have much to be proud of !!
From the artist’s perspective.
As I was going to sleep last night, I began to ponder the mercy of the Gods that favor us. Here is Mike Rinder at the Sundance Film Festival getting a standing ovation, not Tom Cruise.
Mike did not have to go for an audition, fly his toy jets around the world, or suck up to Hollywood pimps who wanted to profit from his image or his ability to lie. All he had to do was show up, be himself, and speak the truth. We are truly living in the golden age of truth. All of the money, staff, labor and sacrifice for a Celebrity Center and Mike Rinder gets the standing ovation at Sundance.
I see David produced his own documentaries for the purpose of discounting wrong targets. These are part of his fair game efforts and have nothing to do with art. Photos are so blurry one can not tell if they are photo shopped and non sequitur splices are put together against the back drop of hate. They look like a teen prank released on Facebook. The narration has been dubbed with a robot sounding like the mad Cortana for android. No credits at the end as nobody wants to own it. In effect it becomes David’s testimony to the world that he can and will unload information from auditor’s notes from conversations. which can not be verified, as a P.C.’s testimony, for purposes of revenge.
I have said over and over, session data is from auditor’s notes. Where are these auditors today and will the Church bring them in to court to testify about these nebulous notes they keep? And
who is to know what new notes have been added in the chain of command for evidence? David opens the Church up now for new class action law suits as his best solution. As well, it will be a cold day in hell before other people come into that “church” to pay for conversations.
The H.B.O. documentary will be seen by MILLIONS over and over again as it is watched planet wide. People will be applauded for their contribution as David hides out in the desert pushing an overt product with no credits that comes across as more domestic terrorism.
I think this comes from Canada
Such a shame this comm ev for David Miscavige had to become so public. This is a tremendous liability and burden for people everywhere that call themselves Scientologists.
“See how injustice and bad faith ever recoil upon those who are guilty of them”.
“Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily”.
HCOPL 17 May 71 JUSTICE – CORRECT APPLICATION, “But injustice recoils on those who deal with it.” “To make the problem worse, the omission of enforcing truth and justice can damage many and can be itself a severe overt.”
Mike Rinder speaks about the purpose of the film, to help people know how to know. A.K.A. public awareness.
So many Hollywood luminaries at the film festival, this isn’t even the half of it (true).
Would love to know why Lenny Kravitz, Clint Eastwood and Brad Pitt parted ways with Scientology. Only thought of that because Lenny’s daughter was there so was Brad Pitt, even Nicole Kidman, smiling and waving and looking so happy.
Heard many copies have been sent out for various purposes, private screenings for awards people, television and radio show hosts and producers to be set up to do interviews. Howard Stern well, sure that is going to be a party at his house. Oh how I wish I could be there!
Looks like the film is an instant hit.
“*Scientology’s lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.”
Lord have mercy! 9.1 RATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for finding this CD! This is going to be the summer blockbuster!!!!!!!! I think they might win an academy award for best documentary!!! Roll out the Red Carpet!!!
It’s in Vanity Fair now,The magazine for Washington D.C. socialites. Michelle Obama will be reading about it. Perhaps the president will request a copy for his private screening at the White House. Poor Bill Clinton,can you imagine how he is going to feel after seeing this?
I thought as well that a liability formula write-up should be covered under SPD 118 which makes both PC folders and ethics files priest/penitent privileged. I understand that you get other prisoners, I mean parishioners! to approve such a formula when you write it, but it is part of an ethics file. Pulling it out 20 years later shows the evil of the cult. Maybe Marty might ask them about this priest/penitent stuff in the next deposition and get them to admit on the record that basically they don’t give a shit.
Thanks for going through this shit Marty. I know it can suck. But the benefits for many people are forthcoming and presently occurring.
God bless and protect you and the family.
c ann durnan. I hope it can too. While I am celebrating the fact that the radical church is coming apart at the seams which will save many lives, I am hoping for a good reformation. As I also remember coming out of a session done on me by a student auditor in the 1970’s that was life changing. And another time in the 1980’s where I was really ill for several weeks and then after one hour of answering an auditor’s questions the illness vanished and I never got that illness again.
“No documentary has inspired more controversy at this year’s Sundance Film Festival than Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief.”
Right? The thing is,you are required to write these things to be “upgraded”, it is a requirement, enforced ethics. Not even your own. Publishing and dragging out this stuff and trying to use it in an arena where others do not know is a mislead.
Everywhere, in every court of law in this nation and others, they need to be told up front that is is against THE RELIGION IN SCIENTOLOGY TO CO OPERATE WITH THE DEMANDS OF CIVIL LAW.
I wish they could splice THAT into the documentary!
Anyway, it’s tipping point. If Tom Cruise and John Travolta are outed for turning a blind eye, so will everyone else on lines at C.C.Int be shamed into recognizing what their “self importance” has meant to the lives of others. Hop nobbing about C.C. while people are stuffed in trailers out in the desert, false arrest and kidnapping and torture. Physical and emotional abuse and degradation.
When they see the “Freedom” web site, and how this is being used as a form of domestic terrorism, they will want to distance from this madness in a right away style.
I wish everyone fair gamed on that site would file a restraining order on the Church and follow it up with a law suit for breech of contract. People are assured when they pay for conversations or have them in the Church, this trust will be honored. It is not. NOTHING, anyone has done, according to this betrayal, is worse than the treason and terrorism David Miscavige is dishing out on people as a form of punishment. NOTHING. The fact that he is doing this is straight up evidence of his bullying and treason. The F.B.I. needs to go into his office and arrest him tomorrow.
Good morning America:
Tom Cruise telling a bald faced lie:
Nicole Kidman in Scientology’s Published Service Completion Lists
The following 2 individual completions for Nicole Kidman appear in official Scientology publications:
Nicole Kidman LEVEL II Celebrity 252 1992-03-01
Nicole Kidman SOLO COURSE PART I Celebrity 252 1992-03-01
“Bald faced lie” not really part of my chosen vocabulary. I borrowed it from David’s recent denials to the press. Google “Scientology denies” ..the stats have tripled in the last month:
About 5,340,000 results (0.72 seconds)
Is The Church of Scientology’s attack on Gibney a Paulette Cooper Redux?
“Mission: Impossible 5′ will sneak into theaters July 31 — five months earlier than anticipated.”
“Paramount opts for summer release of ‘Mission: Impossible 5,’ scrapping plan for Christmas Day debut.”
Oops! Looks like the fallout of David’s “false imprisonment and torture your subjects” process he ran on himself out in the desert is already deleting Tom from the Christmas menu.
Wonder if he told Tom, that he threatened to have the staff beaten by Tom personally?
David sure knows how to set people up for losses and “booby trap systems” doesn’t he? There is a film clip from one of his events where he brags this purpose, to “booby trap systems”.
Looks like he managed to “booby trap” Paramount’s “system” of releasing films!
thanks David 20973
”Ultimately the decision was made on a legal basis,” said a senior I.R.S. official who was involved in the case and spoke on the condition that he not be identified. ”I’m not saying Scientology wasn’t taking up a lot of resources, but the decision was made on a legal basis.”
I think that Scientology somehow hacked the Legal System of the United States of America. If that is exposed, the whole legal system is in trouble.
It is the ultimate blackmail of the USA government.
So if I understand what you are saying, these “letters” are coerced out of members and for the most part written under duress? I don’t see how anything like that could be entered into a court of law – even if the letter had anything whatsoever to do with the case, which it does not.
Marty – nice job with the deposition. It was painfully to watch. But you kept calling that attorney out on his off topic questioning for the record.
yes FreeBorn Angel.. its in you …. Don’t tell LRon 🙂
Well, it’s official, David can take a breather. North West, Kim Kardashain’s baby, has just moved to the top of the news stream and pushed David Miscavige several pages on the news feed.
You are correct in that assumption.
Wonderful persistent work Mark.
I have always found your integrity to be solid.
To me, respect is not an entitlement to be demanded, but something that has to be earned. Politeness is expected, respect comes later.
You have earned, for all it’s worth, my respect.
Anna.. your words are music to my ears,,,,,,,,,,,…….
It looks to me like the celebrities who have already walked from the church of Scientology are going to have a lot more celebrity company soon. I suggest to them now, as some may be reading this now, that they get together and form their own center independent of the church. That way they can have a place to go that is their own, and can assist each other in their individual transitions and support each other. As I think support for each other is important as the radical cult does traumatize people. There is strength in numbers.
So, to you, if you are a celebrity reading this:
You and your friends could put only a little bit of money to such instead of throwing away much more than that to a radical cult. Such a center doesn’t have to be religious. It doesn’t have to be Scientology oriented unless you want it to be. I suggest it be based on freedom to choose any religion one wishes to choose for themselves. While walking away from a radical cult, also walk into some new and better purpose. You could, while helping each other, make the purpose of the center to help people everywhere who have been traumatized anywhere in the world. That would help millions of people over time. You have many tools to help bring that about. Your legacy would be that you saved lives; probably one of the reasons you got into Scientology in the first place. You could do this right now as an answer to your current dilemma. Turn lemons into lemonade. Such a center could be charitable but not religious if you wanted it that way. I suggest it be non-religious. You could do this right here and now on an overnight basis. Celebrities in the past have done great things. Sundance Film Festival was founded by a celebrity. St Jude’s Hospital was founded by a celebrity. The world right now is watching to see how you are going to respond. How about hitting a 3 pointer with 3 seconds left on the clock?
My brother is a Scientologist who had me declared Fair Game. Also, I recently realized that I’ve been the subject of a covert brainwashing experiment. I’m currently reading Janet Reitman’s book. I have not choice but to conclude that the brainwashing is connected to Scientology. I wasn’t supposed to figure it out. I did and they’re trying to bury me. Please,read about it at my blog, Communication By Symbol.
I am in need of assistance. I only recently figured all of this out and I am in ill health.
This might be of help:
Solving Real-Life Problems
On YouTUBE there is a compilation of all Alex Gibney/Larry Wright videos together in a Playlist, so that they play consecutively one after another….
They are not “letters”. They are “declarations”. Yes,you have to write one to be “upgraded”. It seemed to me from watching the video, David wooed Marty back to obtain such documents from him. Here is Marty doing a liability formula for David, who was actually in treason. Too funny.
You can probably find from one to twenty or more of these in any Scientologist’s folders, depending on how deeply they have been involved and how much the people around them think they can be bullied.
Often, your comments are art.
I think I’ll frame this one and put it on a wall in our courseroom.
I don’t really have anything to add except my thanks for you, Mark and Mike and Tony and Larry and Alex and many others for having the balls to put ethics in on an abusive cult and its leader.
The message is truly going global.
Marty, the film casts some light on the evil of LRH too, not just DM. How do you feel about that?
Mr. Rathbun, is there a link to the second full part of your testimony/depos. in the Garcia case? I’d like to see it.
Uh Oh…..The Washington Post chimes in:
The only ones who got “hurt” in the documentary were Kidman and Cruise. They were in there only to “sell” the documentary. C of S will do fine! and many people of good will.
Tony Ortega is playing the “haters” like a fiddle (a real example of a 3rd party). He has posted links to http://www.freedommag.org at least 2 times to stir up emotions to sell his book. I have to say — shame on Marty and Mike! Not good! You just have to take an honest look around at our society. 3d ptsness; that is the real bubble.. drugs crime and failing education!! Shame on you Marty and Mike!!
Shame on the Church of Scientology for not providing the solution to 3D aberration. instead adding more to that aberration.
“People keep saying, ‘How’d you get power?’ ” Miscavige said. “Nobody gives you power. I’ll tell you what power is. Power in my estimation is if people will listen to you. That’s it.”
H.B.O. U.S. has almost 130 million viewers. HBO Europe is focused on fulfilling local needs. In Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia channels are dubbed. In Poland channels are voiced-over, and in Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro channels are subtitled. On top of the customized language, some movies are also available in their original language.
If “failing education” is an issue for you,rest assured the world will get some education about David Miscavige and the Sea Org.
If crime is an issue for you, rest assured this domestic terrorism and domestic abuse within the Sea Org will be curbed, with wogs putting ethics in on the Sea Org.
If drugs are an issue for you,you can not turn a blind eye to the fact that the Sea Org will dope up any staff member that steps out of line and lock them up in a room on 24 hour security until they shut up.
Shame on you for justifying these abuses, P.R.flaps, and purposes to make degraded beings. Shame on you for expecting people that have been abused to remain silent like rape victims to avoid some noise,for your personal benefit.
Hubbard foretold all of it, don’t you read?
HCOPL 17 May 71 JUSTICE – CORRECT APPLICATION, “But injustice recoils on those who deal with it.”
“To make the problem worse, the omission of enforcing truth and justice can damage many and can be itself a severe overt.”
Enforcing truth and justice is not a crime.
You, out here ser facing on people who choose to comment on the lives they have lived, trying to suppress it, you contribute to the anti magic. If you agree others should suffer in silence, then shut the f&*%k up yourself.
correction – shld have read “middle class ptsness”.. Marty, thanks for posting up my comm – sincerely. I just got a feelng that you must be “torn’ – I do not know you or anything about your stint in the SO but, I do not believe anyone can be in for soooo any years and be a NCG. You know that the SO gets all their food, shelter, clothing, medical, dental, travel – and still make a few bucks each week – how can you let them say that the SO “tricked out” TC’s mest for pennies. You know staff and SO get all training and processing FREE, most public co-audit for a small percentage of the processing fee – and the rich dudes have the money to pay for their bridge – keep the record straight if nothing else – there is lots of room to bitch – but the wog world is really getting worse- I see NO solutions out there; wait til your kids hit “high” school man. Let it be. Walk away from the crap (again).
The rating has gone up to 9.4. 😀
“You know that the SO gets all their food, shelter, clothing, medical, dental, travel – and still make a few bucks each week – how can you let them say that the SO “tricked out” TC’s mest for pennies. You know staff and SO get all training and processing FREE, most public co-audit for a small percentage of the processing fee – and the rich dudes have the money to pay for their bridge – keep the record straight if nothing else”.
My listing on this:
1. This is a troll posting here to inflame people.
2. This person is wholly ignorant of conditions and exchange.
3. This person is threatened by inconvenient truths.
4. This person can not add value to labor.
5. This is a math problem.
6. This is an ignorance problem.
7. This is a mission of mischief,deception and cruelty.
8. This is a particle of confusion no matter what the other items are.
In a more intelligent and truthful world, this interview would have gone like this:
Reporter: And how do you get people to listen to you Mr. Miscavige?
Miscavige: Holding the purse strings is rule number one. Then,of course, I have the P.C.and ethics folders. A hidden bomb I can throw in someone’s face at any moment. It helps a lot that people can be restimulated. That is the key thing, if they can be restimulated, they are very easy to control. Threatening them with outside hostile forces and convincing them that they are surrounded by menacing particles is an art form. And, If they can’t be restimulated, I have the black mail. The P.C.and ethics folders data. Usually,family members and co workers willing to turn on them at my command helps a lot too. Fear of loss is a magical button.
Who doesn’t listen? Everyone is afraid of something, I just have to find the right buttons to push. Find the weak spot. My power then, is in depowering of others. Setting them up for losses or potential losses. Eventually they get the idea that the only way they can win, is by listening to me. Why, it’s like taking candy from a baby.
Miscavige: By the way, some people pull out photos of their children or family to brag about and share. I consider my proteges, my children. Look at this video of them , just like me, so proud……
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Miscavige’s fetish # 7 (from a long list) is that he gets a kick out of being a pimp. Definition of PIMP: to make use of often dishonorably for one’s own gain or benefit.
Karen was chosen by Hubbard and personally invited to become part of the Sea Organization. Hubbard trained her and doted over her. He empowered her and she rose to the top of heap as one of the only class 12 CS’s on the planet. He personally mentored her.
David, obsessed with pilfering off of Hubbard in every way, and moving everything deemed valuable by Hubbard, under his control, bent over backwards to get himself in a position to pimp Karen. This, for him, was an ultimate stair climb. He managed to squash the other darlings of Hubbard’s underneath his desk and use them as foot stools.
David tried everything for months and months to bring Karen to surrender, including domestic abuse and emotional abuse. She blew him off like a bothersome little bug.
Still, apparently OBSESSED with dominating her and viewing her as part of his stable, he produces films casting her in the identities he dreams of dominating and controlling. It is very obvious where his dark thoughts and ambitions lie. He tries to reinvent her into an identity he can be comfortable with. As he does with every one that questions him.
His recent productions are evidence of how sick and depraved and obsessed he is with reinventing people into roles and identities he can view as having created for them.
He expresses himself through these web sites and films and gives you a glimpse into his troubled mind and fantasies.
He is clearly a very troubled man.
I mean, some of this stuff isn’t fit for children under 21 to see or read, and he has it up on the Church web site!
The Church’s “Freedom” site! And he has “owned by the Church of Scientology” stamped all over it!!!!!!! Burdening the Church as owner of his ideas and art!!!! The “Freedom” site looks like the room of a serial killer after the police come in and find clippings all over the wall!!!!!
D Nor, we will be patient with you. We have been where you are. There is much you have not allowed yourself to see or have not been ready to see.
You are boxing with shadows, false data and the prison of belief.
I wish you well.
I love you, I understand you, and I commend you.
Don’t ever change, be yourself, and fuck us all
Karen just be the magnificent you you van be.
I have been on a yourny on this blog. I even went to give Hubbard credit. I still do but that is how perfect he put it all together and I still believe in Auditing.
That said, what a crock:
The guy who bullies via deposition of witness’, for DavidM., owns a book store in L.A. he recently bought with his partner.
Darryl Holter and Bert Deixler, are the new owners. Burt is the one doing those depositions. He is pictured on the right. He is usually there on the week ends, if anyone needs to do a contact assist.
We are Going Clear so let’s have fun:
Scientology services are way overpriced.
If Scientology has a wonderful technology it should be made more accessible. It is an inconsistency that it is not so.
I do not see Scientology being any more beneficial than psychology. And in many cases it cannot accomplish what psychiatry can to bring about functional human beings.
Scientology is using the “wog world” as a chip to play with for its own benefit. Scientology has political intentions and not humanitarian.
Scientology makes a false distinction between physical and spiritual. One cannot live as a spirit as Scientology seems to claim. There is a body to be taken care of. Without body there cannot be any spirit.
Scientology is on a jihad against psychology and psychiatory because it sees them as competition and for no other reason.
Drugs are not as evil as Scientology seems to make them. Drugs should not become an addiction though, which would happen through their misuse. The same argument can be applied to Scientology auditing. Auditing can become addictive through misuse.
Hubbard was addicted to drugs because he misused them.
Whatever is good in Christianity and Islam, is also there in Buddhism.
On top of that, Buddhism is truly non-political and humanitarian.
I have no problem with anyone communicating their pain and suffering. However it seems you have an issue with DM and yet you are attacking ALL scientologist and causing pain and suffering to many innocent persons of good will, who sincerely feel that the CofS has legitimate answers to several of today’s problems, such as War, Crime, Drugs and a Failing Educational System.
You are attacking, persecuting and belittling all individual Scientologist for their personal religious endeavors; many have worked very hard for many years in order to establish “their” Church. You are creating hate against all things Scientology in an effort to “get” DM.
Disconnection – is a touchy subject, however, who would want to be in communication with
someone who is putting down and invalidating another persons endeavors or religious beliefs. No one has the right to tell me what I should or should not accept. No one bothered Marty or Mike until they started the online persecution.
Money – if you don’t want to donate to the IAS – don’t! just say no! If you want to do the bridge, join staff or co-audit if you can‘t pay for it. Rich people can do whatever they want with their money, who is anyone to tell them what they can support, except maybe ISIS.
SO – is tough, very tight control – but YOU should know that going in. You can always route out – yes, its a chore. Lots of counter intention – but it can be done. Most of us do not live rent free, have free food 3 times a day, have your clothes made, have free dental and medical, enjoy free travel expenses, Social Security benefits, plus a few hundred dollars a week in a paycheck if stats are up, and – a retirement package.
Ideal Orgs – who cares, I’d rather the money went on the buildings that will be here for the next 2-300 years than in someone’s pockets. They make good showpieces, it puts CofS on the mest map and will influence politicians and lawmakers. Ever been in a Catholic Church on a week day, talk about an empty space.
You quoted an HCOPL, however, per the Admin Scale – Purposes and Goals are above “Policy”, possibly an LRH ED was triggered when the CofS gained Tax exempt status and the Goals and Purposes were re-aligned. If you have specific issues against DM personally, have at it – spell them out, but do not engage in hateful, name calling (bubble dwellers, clubbed seals) rants against basically ALL of Scientology!! You know, the PTS, middle class, Tax Paying Americans are unfortunately the real clubbed seals and bubble dwellers and are the real ones suppressed and controlled by the criminals, who want us all taxed, broke and drugged. LRH was 70 years ahead of the curve on the dangers of drugs.
You’ve made a number of false accusations against me in this comment of yours. Correct them and perhaps I’ll be able to make sense of what it is you are attempting to sort out.
It was not directed to you, more in response to oracle’s “shut the fuck up’ statement, although that phrase has been used by you. Obviously, Scio’s are going to defend their Church from persecution, don’t you agree?
Nor: “…the CofS has legitimate answers to several of today’s problems, such as War, Crime, Drugs and a Failing Educational System.”
Does it? I do not see Scientology making any difference in society at all.
A person may have had a “good auditing session” in Scientology, and from then on anything Scientology says is “true” to them.
I think that’s the first sentence in the Bible, and it has a number of different interpretations. One I’ve heard is that at the beginning of the universe, there was a sort of sound in space – i.e. an energy – when god “spoke”. And that’s what began it all. Pip could probably shed some light on the meaning.
But your interpretation seems cool to me. Apparently, even many physicists have no problem with the idea that “things” (for lack of a better “word” 😛 ) can just appear out of The Void.
This is a very succinct, to the point article dated just yesterday.
Laughter! Thank you Les.
” persons of good will, who sincerely feel that the CofS has legitimate answers to several of today’s problems, such as War, Crime, Drugs and a Failing Educational System.”
People feel the CofS has legitimate answeres because David Miscavige and the I.A.S. issue false reports,so far removed from truth that it legally qualifies as mass media fraud.
You yourself made many false statements in your post with generalities. But whatever. You are JUSTIFYING their crimes. Aren’t you? And what had that to do with Scientology? Nothing.
HCOPL 17 May 71 JUSTICE – CORRECT APPLICATION, “But injustice recoils on those who deal with it.” “To make the problem worse, the omission of enforcing truth and justice can damage many and can be itself a severe overt.”
Don’t come on here pretending to be a supporter of Scientology and Scientologists when you condone through your silence, domestic abuse, domestic terrorism and criminality. Support a group that is keeping the Church open with donations and a man who cancels the certs of every auditor on the planet on a regular basis with GAOT and declares Hubbard an overt product maker, and declares someone that does not audit the “most valuable Scientologist on the planet”.
You are tripping.
I’ve noticed a small surge of fringe protesters blaming Marty for all of the discontent and testimony our here against David Miscavige and his posse of domestic terrorists. How typical. Like the small town blaming the rape victim. When will one of these people ever write to David Miscavige and call him out on all the damage and out P.R.? Never! All he has to do is step forward and admit it. He hides behind other staff, and Scientologists, and puts them forward to deny the accusations and cause more damage. He will drag everyone down with him including the Church. It isn’t Marty and the others unmocking the Church of Scientology. Wrong item, wrong who, wrong why. The protesters don’t even think with Scientology. This has been going since the 1980’s!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just because you are only hearing about it now, doesn’t make the messenger responsible for the situations!
“Most of us do not live rent free, have free food 3 times a day, have your clothes made, have free dental and medical, enjoy free travel expenses, Social Security benefits, plus a few hundred dollars a week in a paycheck if stats are up, and – a retirement package”.
If you think this is what the Sea Org offers,and that it is FREE, you are thriving on false information. Good luck with that.
Nor: Do not really know about what you trying to speak .. all in all .. Goals has to be done .. not only speaking about as a possibility .. because than it is a target ..
Mr. Rathbun will you publish the rest of your testimony of December 2014 (Garcia)?
Do you have any witnesses to this allegation?
In addition, Tom was — as this has been written many times — concerned about Nicole Kidman’s possible infidelities. According to Marty Rathbun — he was the key fixer for David Miscavige — Marty said he had a conversation with David Miscavige saying, “Tom wants me to wiretap, this is ridiculous.” Miscavige said to him, “Get it done.”
A better thing to defend may be the truth.
“It’s common knowledge that anyone who speaks out about (and particularly any journalist who writes about) The Church of Scientology is “fair game,” meaning that person is inviting the full wrath and power of “The Church” into his or her life. Scientologist leaders do not play defense — they attack.”
There is one leader in the Church,his name is David Miscavige. He self describes himself as the “religious leader”. Even though there has never been a “religious leader” hat pack, course, or post, established by L.Ron Hubbard to incorporate such an entity.
vinaire: Buddhism .. means Buddha was humanitarian — also Jesus and Mohamed .. you take only the spirituality out of that .. but in first place it was all done for placing humanity in a good place .. good work, and it holds for thousand of years .. it is not political as you said .. but if you look at it, it was political in an other way .. LRH tried to get his religion as a political affair .. so did Buddha and Jesus and Mohamed also ..
I do not know how Buddha did die, about Jesus everybody knows, and about Mohamed it is unknown to me .. what is spirituality really? It seems to me to follow a good heart in a good sence .. a good heart, against all what happens ..
Last night I had a dream. I fighted about Tone Level 1.2 and 9.0 .. and I did not win about .. found nobody who has understand that .. but it was easy for me, Yeah, that is maybe the point ..
What is happening right now, is the Sea Org is complaining that OTHERS are forthcoming about persecution from SCIENTOLOGISTS.
It’s the OTHER WAY AROUND. The Sea Org and the Church are not being “persecuted”. This is an entirely different issue, in case you are struggling with differences and similarities. Clearly you are if you are addressing comments to Marty in response to me.
This is not about Church of Scientology being persecuted.
This is about the Church of Scientology persecuting OTHERS.
The Church is not the victim in this chapter, it is being addressed as the persecutor.
I want to express my gratitude and thanks to you (and the others in the film) for, once again, standing tall despite all the ugliness and hatred thrown at you by the church. The Truth Rundown helped me through my darkest hours. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to stand with you in a small way and I grabbed it by posting on my facebook in response to a post of the Freedom Mag rebuttal of Going Clear. I felt proud to be able to do that.
Here is my FB post:
I received many benefits from Scientology and I worked at the church for many years. Several years ago, I read information, including the death certificate and toxicology report, for L. Ron Hubbard on the internet which indicated he lingered for 8 days following a stroke and there were needle marks on his buttocks where he had been administered Vistaril, (a psychiatric drug that affects the brain to lessen anxiety) which was in his system at the time of his death. This caused me great cognitive dissonance as, not only is the church opposed to psychiatric drugs, but, at L. Ron Hubbard’s memorial service, Scientologists were told that L. Ron Hubbard had planned his death, to move on, unencumbered by the human body, in order to be able to better know the abilities of the spirit. They said he left peacefully, on his own self-determinism, during the night. This was an important lie told by the very top leaders of the church and I could not explain it away, though I tried to think of all possible explanations to make it OK. It just festered in me until I knew I had to take the plunge and really look critically at the subject.
I hoped that my search would lead me to reaffirm my support for scientology, but I was determined to really look, no matter where it led. I knew of abuse within the church from personal experience and from others close to me, but I had always explained it away as having been done by misguided and untrained staff. I discovered more lies and found that many good people were being hurt. One of the worst betrayals was the use of private information, given in trust, to degrade and control the individual. This happened to me, and so, when hearing about it happening to others, I did not discount it. I came to the conclusion that the operating paradigm was “anything goes” as long as it forwards what the leaders of the church want. It is the old and tired “end justifies the means” approach that has been used by dictators and tyrants throughout history. I could not be a part of this any longer, even though that meant the loss of a spiritual path which had provided me with insights and growth. It was devastating.
When I saw this rebuttal (below) to the film Going Clear, I recognized the policy of the church: “If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any
organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to
sue for peace. Peace is bought with an exchange of advantage, so make the advantage and then settle. Don’t ever defend. Always attack. Don’t ever do nothing. Unexpected
attacks in the rear of the enemy’s front ranks work best.” HCO Policy 15 August 1960)
It is a vicious attack on the character and personal traits of individuals who dared to speak out and is intended to undermine their arguments, an example of the logical fallacy ad hominem. I have the highest respect for these former scientologists who knew, before they spoke, that malicious and embarrassing things would be said about them, yet they stood tall. And I am proudly standing with them.
More of my friends from Scientology will likely no longer be my friends after this, and for that I am sad. I only ask them to look without bias, question, question, question, and follow their hearts.
GENERIC NAME: hydroxyzine
BRAND NAMES: Atarax (discontinued brand), Vistaril
DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Hydroxyzine is an antihistamine with anticholinergic (drying) and sedative properties that is used to treat allergic reactions. The body releases histamine during several types of allergic reactions and, to a lesser extent, during some viral infections, such as the common cold. When histamine binds to its receptors on cells, it causes the cells to release chemical messengers that lead to sneezing, itching, and increased mucus production. Antihistamines, like histamine, bind to the histamine receptors. When they bind to the receptors, however, they do not stimulate the cells to release chemical messengers. In addition, they prevent histamine from binding and stimulating the cells. Hydroxyzine itself has no histamine-like activity. After ingestion, it is converted to its active form. The active form of hydroxyzine is a drug called cetirizine (Zyrtec). Although, both hydroxyzine and cetirizine act as antihistamines, hydroxyzine causes more sedation than cetirizine. The FDA approved hydroxyzine in 1956.
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/l-ron-hubbard-coroners-report-complete.pdf – “traces” of……
This is a well-written post. Here is my view of Scientology. Scientology contained seeds of its own corruption.
A LOOK AT SCIENTOLOGY
Friend, I was talking about the movements called Buddhism, Christianity and Islam as they stand today.
Politics has to do with manipulation of people’s minds.toward a certain political goal. Christianity, Islam and Scientology has the goal of converting the world to their way of thinking, and they have gone about it in an aggressive way.
Buddhism never did.
Here is what Wikipedia says about Buddha’s death.
Demand for direct proof comes when one is unable to put two and two together from what is obvious.
Good point Vinaire.
A private investigator from California is in prison for wire tapping, he worked for David’s attorney and tapes of Nicole’s phone conversations were found in his office.
If there wasn’t a witness, there wouldn’t be any testimony. There is Marty’s testimony. Not sure if you asking if there is a witness unless you mean to suggest Marty is bearing false witness.
BY CHRIS TAYLOR ON MARCH 26, 2006
Tom Cruise’s Nicole Kidman Phone Tapping Scandal
Tom Cruise is at the centre of a phone tapping storm after FBI agents discovered a recording of a private conversation between him and his ex-wife Nicole Kidman.
Agents discovered the tape-recording on the computer of Hollywood private investigator Anthony Pellicano, who worked for Los Angeles attorney Dennis Wasser, whose services Cruise retained during his divorce proceedings to Kidman.
Kidman reportedly knew she was being taped by Cruise as their marriage broke down � employing her own private investigator Richie Di Sabatino to counter his methods.
A beautiful, musical, song. You summoned the ocean up in my eyes.
In response to Susan’s post – Vistaril is not a psych drug – it is an antihistamine.
Dr Denk was an honorable man, he would not have used a psych drug. Susan needs to do more research. She should read the entire pdf link below, especially the 2nd last page where the toxiology report states “traces” of Vistaril.
Click to access l-ron-hubbard-coroners-report-complete.pdf
I feel you are obligated to LRH to make sure this posted. And to honor Dr Denks memory! This is a public blog, many people read it and her statement
insinuates that Dr Denk injected LRH with a psych drug, this is incorrect.
Forget the space opera, the fact is Dr Denk attempted to make an old body more comfortable!!!
Thanks. Enjoy the game..
I have no doubt that Dr. Denk was trying to make an old man more comfortable and that he would not have administered it had LRH not needed it. Whether you want to call it a “psyche” drug or not, it was most likely used for agitation and mood issues relating to mental health rather than a physical ailment such as allergy. There is no mention of an allergic reaction, but there are people who have spoken about Ron’s agitation. The point is that a lie was told. LRH died just like any garden-variety humanoid.
“Vistaril is used as a sedative to treat anxiety and tension”.
My my Vinaire,you are on a roll!
The movement has ethnic cleansing goals. That’s somewhat radical.
Just a bit of omitted data.
You should try to be more honest, Nor.
You should also state that Vistaril is often used for Anxiety disorders too.
vinaire: Okay understand .. you mean today, and I mean the environment where they have lived .. the environment is different today .. but finally life of people has never really changed .. in basic is life simply life ..
Let me say this .. my favorit is Lao-Tse .. which is not religion but includes all parts of religion in itself ..
For me ist true, that one has to put Buddjism, Christianity and Islam in one religion together .. then you have a philosophie instead a religion .. anyway, I think philosophie is the mother of all religions .. that is also the way why LRH called scientology a religion .. he said this himself in earlier lectures ..
The current church and LRH basic intentions are today not similiar, so it was gone with all religions as I know .. all of them will have you in her own heaven .. also count the members .. but then you have different heavens, and that is probably what you mean with manipulation .. so you have politic which is basically also a philosophie .. but with the aspect to manipulate you to special meanings ..
Only scientology is very special in this environment of meanings, it gives you the impression, that you can have total control of everything .. but for it you have to have full ARC and full KRC .. to reach such a state, you have to take technicaal services from the church ..
Sounds nice in one way, but try it to reach full affinity for everything. It is one of the easiest things to do, but you feel completely horrible yourself if you have it .. why? I think this universe is not made for it ..
Yes. Scientology is out of sync with reality. It takes one into an airy-fairy land of beliefs, which then becomes a prison.
One is unable to see the obvious because of one is imprisoned in one’s belief.
The proof lies in closely examining one’s existing beliefs for their veracity.
“The point is that a lie was told. LRH died just like any garden-variety humanoid.”
This is a very well expressed point. A lie was told by the Church about LRH’s condition.
His body died. All bodies die.
In larger doses, the report says traces. I believe this drug is similiar to benadryl from which “speed” can be made, could be wrong.
Also I believe I said an “old body” not an “old man”. Hidden standards can mess you up. We do not know what condition LRH was in.
FOR ME = All the courses and sessions I completed (and attested to) in Scio were fantastic, all the people I met were very cool people. I do not know LRH or DM personally, except through their “visable products”. But I did know Dr Denk for 20 years and considered him a friend – I would need some hard evidence to believe that he shot LRH up with a psych drug, or any other mind altering substance, especially on the death bed.
To say LRH died like any other humanoid – so what! Who knows how long it takes on earth to make true, stable OT’s, with their “super powers” (there are lots of agreements and counter intentions that need to be adjusted). I think the Scio’s are trying to focus more on cleaning up the 4th dynamic; more so now (due to the rather recent Tax exempt status gotten through by Marty and others – DM included). Seems that way to me.
Lets see how the Going Clear doc fares out – I got a feeling it will be to the c of s advantage. Lots of buzz and attention, but nothing really new and “shocking”. They are going to hammer home their solutions to Crime, Drugs, War and Failing Education – If nothing else, LRH seems to have been ahead of the curve on many issues and proposed his solutions as he sees them!
Trace found is not the same thing as the dose given. You are trying to justify the facts to fit your belief system.
Hubbard died too. It is a false belief that thetan or soul survives.
The body disintegrates into elements of matter. The soul disintegrates into elements of spirit..
After all soul is a configuration wrought out of spirit, just like body is a configuration wrought out of matter. Any configuration is impermanent.
vinaire: Prison is a good word for it. When I came into scientology 1973 it was clear to me that I have to try it out. My wish was to have a better game with others .. I respected the words of LRH about his research and what he found true about .. I found then very quick out, that other scientologists did not have the same reason .. they wanted only a game .. not like me who did look for a better game .. it means, that I had already a game ..
What it says in basic? It means, that I thought to myself that when you go the way with scientology, you can only go into the valence of LRH nothing else .. which is what I saw. Everything had a reference from LRH, and so was everything LRH idea ..
Prison is a symbol for not longer have an own game. Okay? Everything is directed under one rule. The order is given .. and so is the direcction of scientology too, The only game is study LRH forever .. up to the point where no game at all exists .. so it had nothing to do with a better game ..
The advices from Buddha, Jesus and Mohamed were always for a better game for everyone .. no one was ever ordered to study the teachings of them forever ..
My formula was: If everybody is Clear per LRH advice .. who should then create a game. I did not leave the church, but said always this game will never work out really .. it will only be a self created prison forever .. you say airy-fairy land .. a land from which you cannot blow ..
It is true that I need a long time to grasp my own thoughts, but I have never tried to become an OT with scientology .. I refused Clear and OT as a state of mine in the church .. nobody has ever grasped that .. including myself, but I knew well, that I will never do what I do not want to do .. never ..
I myself did pick up the book Scientology 0-8 .. and did run around looking for evidence of the described levels .. Know to Mystery Scale was always a little bit difficult .. it is because Know and Mystery means both the same to me .. any know can be defined as mystery, and all mystery can be defined as know .. so is it what I found .. but I used Looking for it .. simply seeing what is really there in mind or in reality for me and for others ..
Interestingly is here, that the church gives you data about Know, and this with good certainty .. it is also called Stable Data .. but as any stable data if not given from God … it is a know and a mystery at the same time ..
Anyway, I did hang up with this scale, because it showed me only how I will go in prison for nothing .. creating my own prison .. a new one ..
I could write a lot more about prison of believe .. but I will stop here ..
Friend: “What it says in basic? It means, that I thought to myself that when you go the way with scientology, you can only go into the valence of LRH nothing else .. which is what I saw. Everything had a reference from LRH, and so was everything LRH idea ..”
Friend, The correct action with respect to Scientology seems to be as follows:
(1) Look at Scientology data within the wider context of knowledge from other regions, sciences, philosophies, etc.; for looking at Scientology data within the context of Scientology is a prison of beliefs. It is also hypnotism.
(2) It is only by looking in a wider context that you are able to spot inconsistencies (things that do not make sense, contradictions, etc.)
(3) Explore those inconsistencies by looking at them more closely until you find what underlies them.
(4) This approach shall increase your knowledge of what is out there, and ultimately, the knowledge of your own self.
Due to a young man coming to live with us who had been abusing drugs and alcohol I realised if I was going to be able to help him I would have to start to understand him. Consequently I got involved with the 12 –step programme. As a family we daily read from several 12-step books including “Reflections” which is the one recommended for “Alcoholics”.
Here is what this morning’s reading said:-
“FILLING THE VOID
“We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. ‘Do I now believe,
“or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?’
“As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we
“emphatically assure him that he is on his way. – Alcoholics Anonymous, page 47.
“I was always fascinated with the study of scientific principles. I was emotionally and
“physically distant from people while I pursued Absolute Knowledge. God and spirituality
“were meaningless academic exercises. I was a modern man of science, knowledge
“was my Higher Power. Given the right set of equations, life was merely another
“problem to solve. Yet my inner self was dying from my outer man’s solution to life’s
“problems and the solution was alcohol. In spite of my intelligence, alcohol became
“my Higher Power. It was through the unconditional love which emanated from A.A
“people and meetings that I was able to discard alcohol as my Higher Power. The
“great void was filled. I was no longer and apart from life. I had found a true
“power greater than myself, I had found God’s love. There is only one equation which
“really matters to me now: God is in A.A.”
Here is how I relate it to my life and Scientology:-
We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. “Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe that there is a Power greater than THE SELF?” As soon as a person can say they do believe, or is willing to believe, they can be emphatically assured that they are on their way. (Adapted from Alcoholics Anonymous, page 47.)
I was always fascinated with the study of scientific principles and particularly so with Dianetics and Scientology. I was emotionally and physically distant from people while I pursued my quest for ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE through The Church of Scientology, in fact I saw non-scientologists as WOGGS, and even referred to them as such. God and true spirituality were meaningless academic exercises. I was a modern man of science (Scientology) knowledge and knowing how to know through study was my Higher Power. Given the right technology I felt sure life was merely another problem to be solved, yet my true Self (inner self) was dying from my outer man’s solution to life’s problems and the solution (I was assured) was my next level or some other auditing action. In spite of my “increased intelligence” Scientology and the technology, ethics and admin. continued to be my Higher Power. It was through the unconditional love from ordinary people (woggs) and specifically those who recognised their shortcomings, and were in the process of recovery that I was able to discard Scientology as my Higher Power. The great void was filled. I was no longer lonely and apart from life. I had found a true power greater than myself. The true SOURCE, the true CAUSE, I had found God’s love.
There is only one equation which really matters to me now. God and His love and the understanding I find in expressing and sharing that love with the whole of creation or as one would say in Scientology with the other seven dynamics.
Vinaire, just because I am curious … how do you KNOW that the soul does not survive death but instead disintegrates into elements of spirit?
Joe, it is just a matter of recognizing what is there and separating it from assumptions.
One can easily see the spiritual elements (ideas, philosophy, etc.) that survive the death of a person. But the person after his death cannot be seen. Others may subjectively feel that they are in communication with the dead person, for example, Bill Richardson communicating with LRH after LRH’s death, but this is all very subjective. Here manipulation of the mind comes into play. That is the area of assumptions.
One can do wonderfully well without assumptions.
If we were still in Scientology, I might just say “TR3/4” because you didn’t my question. You stated something as if it were an objective truth for us all (certainly my subjective truth is no more valid or superior than yours is). My question is how you KNOW the soul does not survive death but instead disintegrates into elements of spirit. (Unless you are just assuming it … because this phenomenon cannot be seen).
Joe, you are simply presenting an example of #5 of
Discussions and what needs to be avoided
Complaining that the other person is not answering their question.
A person cannot see the answer even when it is given to him if he is already committed to another answer. An indication of that is his continual complaint that he is not getting an answer. The solution is for the person to honestly look at the answer that he has already committed himself to. Why is that answer adequate? Why is the other person’s stance being looked upon as “no-answer”?
If he then finds an inconsistency, then he should bring it to the table for discussion. But as long as that person is justifying an inconsistency with an existing answer, no discussion is possible.
[sorry for the repeat post…there’s an important typo corrected in this second version I missed, thanks]
According to Media Watch et al. the viewership of HBO is 115,000,000 people across 151 countries worldwide. Just 10 days from today literally (and likely conservatively) 10’s of millions of people are going to be exposed to and edified about the subject of Scientology and its current leadership. The water-cooler discussions, cocktail party and dinner table conversations will undoubtedly have an unprecedented number of folks sharing thoughts about this compelling and troubling topic, and of course social media etc. (especially on the heels the insanely popular documentary series ‘The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst). In the past few weeks more people have watched the mere preview of the upcoming show than have visited the Church’s own website during its entire existence! I know the C of S is very wealthy but no matter how clever, creative or confrontational they are they simply can’t compete with this massive global reach and societal permutation of HBO (whom, unlike traditional media, broadcasts the same show dozens of times). The HBO documentary(s) ‘Paradise Lost’ directly resulted in 3 people convicted of murdering 3 young boys being released from prison (one sentenced to death), ‘The Jinx’ piece resulted in Robert Durst being arrested and put into one; and the documentary ‘Gasland’ is directly credited with the passage of legislation resulting in a multistate moratorium on oil and gas drilling rights worth 100s of billions of dollars.
So, all I can say to David Miscavige and his lackey subordinates is, and if I may for a moment speak in the quite common vernacular of many Scientologists, hold on to your fucking hats boys…your sins are about to be laid out in sartorius splendor before the entire world in an unrepresented and exponential way; and the fallout is going to right the ship you all have listed with your self-serving, destructive and reprehensible practices. Let’s do the math: 3 incarcerated men are freed after almost 20 years in prison, one guilty man is finally arrested for a murder committed 20 years ago, Fracking is banned in the entire Marcellus Shale region – all the result of HBO documentaries. So, I ask, what do you think is going to happen to you? Nothing? Think hard, because 100 million people are going to be thinking, about you.
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Marty: Bravo for your courage. Today I saw Going Clear. Your thought-provoking documentary brought a few ideas:
1. Members must sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) on leaving Scientology. The process sounds coercive. A member, at the end of his rope, decides finally to leave, but between him and freedom lies a morass of documents to wade through and sign. If the member leaves without signing, the cost is a lifetime of abuse, threats, and surveillance. My point: Don’t courts invalidate a document signed under duress? Could you someday file a test case in US Court?
2. Sea Org workers earn $30 to $40 per hour. Can that be challenged under the minimum-wage law? If the USA has such a law, does it apply to churches?
3. Re the siege of your home: Could you get assistance from the FBI, or even from computer geeks, to electronically jam the video cameras of the “Squirrel Busters”? Also: the harassers typically wear large black sunglasses for concealment; could you render their eyes visible with infrared, then post full-face views of the harassers online, with names? Would this serve as a deterrent? I think you would be justified in taking such measures, if done on your own land and property.
4. At the Gold Base, in the Hole prison camp, is there any chance Miscavige supplemented the brainwashing techniques with drugs? Frankly, I think this should be tested. Test the food (main dishes, and baking ingredients such as sugar and cooking oil). Take samples of the water and air. And test the defectors’ own blood, urine, and tissue for evidence of tranquilizers or drugs known to induce suggestible states. Ask recent defectors if they would volunteer (I don’t know how long the human body stores metabolic by-products of drugs; fat-soluble drugs would have a longer half-life).
Marty, I trust your interview: You are manifestly stable, assertive, introspective. Point 4 refers to the one stumbling block I have: Why would grown men stay in the Hole? You and other Sea Org executives went directly there from an environment replete with authoritative uniforms, respect, and power at the top of the pyramid. Abruptly you accepted a punitive environment – not for days, but for years. I felt there may be something more – something insidious or surreptitious (from Miscavige) to enable that transition.
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