Ben Herndon (contracting out of Prowler Investigations) of Corpus Christi (5910 Alameda Stree to be precise) is David Miscavige’s latest South Texas thug for hire. After much international publicity through 2011 and into 2012 concerning Miscavige’s Scientology Inc. thuggery at my home, no Scientology operatives dared rear their ugly heads in our vicinity. Miscavige continued to spend tens of thousands each month for an elaborate surveillance system to identify who came and went. But, they have taken extraordinary measures to be quiet and unseen.
Well, apparently my latest post, Introduction to Training Routines 0-9, struck a nerve. It is one thing I guess to expose Miscavige’s crimes, and quite another to attempt to put L. Ron Hubbard into a context in which he might be better appreciated by a wider number of people.
This charming fellow sat across the street in his blacked out vehicle filming my home this afternoon:
After several minutes, Herndon had to be a tough and pull his vehicle across our wide drive way to make a show out of his filming. Only when I came out front weilding a camera did he speed off. Problem is he drove his white chrysler convertible sixty miles per hour down a 20 mph speed limit street. He nearly struck (and would have likely killed) a five year old girl and her puppy as he fled.
If Herndon comes to San Patricio County again he will be questioned by Sheriff’s deputies, and may well be arrested for reckless driving and child endangerment.
If Miscavige chooses to send anyone else – he had better require, within an inch of their lives, them to obey the law and respect my neighbors. Several of those neighbors have already retained counsel in contemplation of actions for the disruption Scientology Inc. has caused to their lives over the past couple years.
What cowards, what complete jack asses. I hope your neighborhood sues the pants off those animals.
Ben Herndon…how does a guy go from being am exotic car salesman and an “Insurance Professional” and sink lower to a gig of harassment and stalking for — of all names — Prowler Investigations? taking Corporate Scientology fleece money to disturb the peace? And then endanger children. It’s outrageous and egregious.
Ben Herndon Not So Private Investigator. Or should that read Intimidator? By getting involved with the “Church” of Scientology he has discredited himself and his company. Prowler Investigations of Corpus Christi. No job too low? I thought Texas was American.
Marty, Marty, Marty! You’re just going to have to cease disclosing and discussing and disrespecting miscavige’s plans to run an effective implant station here on good old planet earth.
How can he possibly make slaves out of people who have their TRs in?
Hey Marty a while ago I posted the fact that Brian Mandigo is a ….
Miscavige must like that guy because he’s around his tone level.
Solid looking citizen. Very solid. Solidly solid. Yep – rock solid.
Listen Punk, you want to make accusations like that go the Village Voice or anti-Marty blogs or somewhere else that thrives on degenerates engaging in sick ad hominem.
Apparently investigators for hire are not terribly bright or maybe that’s what Corp Scn is looking for. Any minor amount of web searching will bring to light what happens when these guys come lurking. Investigative skills of this calibre must be the result of decades of training. Impressive no doubt. (heavy sarcasm).
Ben- get a teenager to help you do a google search on Marty and maybe lay off the caffeine so your not so nervous about actually confronting someone while your lurking. Just what were your afraid of that you needed to bolt recklessly from the neighborhood after your pitiful showing?
One last thing Ben. Get a hat. the bald overweight guy, the dour look and sunglasses has already been done. As a matter of fact it’s on the cover of Marty’s book.
The Gods are angry at David Miscavige. Many curses have been cast towards him. The word is that all will recoil upon him that he issues.
David’s personal operating basis these days seems to be: DO WHAT RON WOULD NEVER DO!
About child endangerment, Hubbard wrote a book called CHILD DIANETICS for a reason. Because CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT than adults! The violations against children in the Church and some in the field are GROSS against the advice in this book. They ARE NOT “JUST THETANS” otherwise Hubbard would not have written a book dedicated to CHILDREN. HELLO!
“Child Dianetics is being published to fill a need.” L.R.H.
“The adult is the problem in child raising, not the child.” L.R.H.
Exactly what a child should experience in Scientology and Dianetics is layed out in black and white in this book. This is the manual for children. Please use it when dealing with children.
The Church has not set up Child Guidance Centers, as outlined in Child Dianetics. It was easier to ban them from the area as they do not have credit cards .
Please, if you have children, read this book and ensure your children are handled appropriately if they are interested in Scientology and nagging about having it . Otherwise they will be approached and handled as adults are handled and you could set them up for a loss and blow them off the bridge.
Nice going David, sending thugs in a residential neighborhood KNOWING they have a reactive mind and children are out and about. Not exactly the pillar of concern and responsibility as far as children are concerned.
To everyone who runs over children by cars, by words, by mishandling of them, by thoughtlessness, by disrespect, READ THIS:
“To our next generation, the best reason we have for Dianetics” L.R.H. dedication in Child Dianetics.
I admire you so much. I am not a scientolgist but your blog has tought me that there is good to be found. These thugs WILL NOT get away with these crimes. If I, someone who has never taken a single course is rooting for you then the whole world is watching and CARES.
Maybe the success story caused David to lose it.
😆 Yes, that look definitely has been done. Ewwwww.
Disgusting PTS jerk, obviously money-motivated. Boy, you picked the wrong crowd to work for dude! You’re gonna see nothing but trouble on this one! As you should!
Waking up causes the little pimp to lose it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I say pimp because he is the pimp for the whores at Prowler and Fouler who will do anything for a buck. “Now, where is that god damn scotch…………………?.”
Just as the picture of the asinine trio on the cover of Marty’s book makes CoS Inc. look stupider than stupid, so too does the PI, stalking, and endangerment through bad driving. Evidently Elvis did not leave the building in CoS Inc., but all the brains did.
But wouldn’t it be fun if it were DM in a Tom Cruise style Mission Impossible latex mask posing as a PI? Or maybe it was TC himself?
Joking aside, I’ve rarely seen or heard of an organization so totally tone-deaf to the impression it creates in the world is opposite of what it should want. If CoS is trying to get people in general at say CD (curious-desire) range of CDEI scale, the effect they are achieving by trying to enforce weird rules and distorted viewpoints is to inhibit — and push Scn even further down into unknown and inhibited.
But that would be the expected result of a true suppressive / anti-social / psychopathic personality calling the shots.
If I were leading CoS (not that I would want the job — I wouldn’t), I’d call for a blanket amenesty, a revocation of all goldenrod that did not involve actual crimes (like p;roven embezzlement and so forth) and even in that case I’d call for a review to make sure justice and due process was applied, I’d call for an end of all derogatory language about non-Scientologists (wogs, raw meat, meat bodies, etc.), I call for openness and reasoned research that did not fall prey to scientism (the arguable fallacy that only the scientific method can lead to knowing and truth), establishment of livable wages and decent hours for all employees, the abolishment of IAS other than as a voluntary non-CoS controlled entity, abolition of crush regging, affirmation of critical thinking / study / reasoning and end of blind acceptance of any one else’s truth (a freedom that I believe LRH clearly upheld), the establishment of an independent watchdog group with authority over any COB, upholding of truth / exact form/event/time/place etc. and and end to covert activities and a beginning of striving toward 100% transparency, reinstatement of all improperly canceled certs, and end of running Dianetics on clears and OTs, open debate and discussion on any and all points to supplement word clearing with conceptual grasp for solid understanding (Socratic method?), rational and affordable pricing of services / e-meters / publications, and so on.
Gosh — I’ll stop there — end of rant. Hope the reader does not mind me thinking out loud. In the end, I support what Marty, Mike, Freezoners, and others are trying to accomplish.
Marty, obviously you have done something right to make the dwarf lose it. Please continue.
Nice quotes Oracle. I especially like “The adult is the problem in child raising, not the child.” L.R.H.
Thomas Szasz and others point out that it is the “authority” that first “frames” (articulates, states, defines) a problem that then sets the stage to further action. Hence parents usually get believed over kids, when in fact it is often the parents who are the problem — and I believe that it is more often than not the adult that is the problem, not the child.
Scientology as an applied religious philosophy has so many tie-ins with other great lines of thinking that it can be a catalyst for new conversations on any number of important issues from public policy to personal growth.
In my opinion, DM has virtually stifled the opportunity for Scientology to be part of a broader conversation — a conversation where I believe Scn belongs at the table. Disclaimer: based on my experience, some of the self-isolation of CoS and its members began when LRH was still alive and pre-DM; so on this point my views differ somewhat from the views of others. However, I am completely persuaded that the problems became far worse after DM took over, probably beginning with the infamous mission-holders massacre.
My pen name for posting, FOTF, stands for Freedom Of Thought Forever, BTW.
We are all awake, just In our on fashion , awake is the key. Truly when touched by the tech you never die, only the body.
Keep in trucking
Regards darren may
That’s what happens when you send a child to do a thug’s job.
Another factor which probably made DM’s synapses snap terminals with each other resulting in a schizophrenic overload of his brain only a high voltage electrician could defuse, is the fact that your introduction not only put LRH in a different and easily understandable light, but the copy was very well written.
If there was one thing DM loved to mention over and over again it was the fact that he was the ONLY one capable of writing ANY copy in the entirety of the SO. I never heard him say “in the world” as he knew there were enough read people who would have hiccuped upon such a statement, but if there was one factor that I saw him invalidate in others over and over again as a specific (outside of just nullifying anything and anybody he could get his hands on) it was their writing skills and being able to convey concepts in writing.
It is quite beside the point that I understand the communication of my senile 80-year old neighbor (who only speaks Cantonese) better than I understand DM, but when he read your introduction it must have created a Kodak moment worthy of a first price.
Marty you have displayed competence over and over again which of course has made you one of his top enemies, but this introduction invalidated (inadvertently) that factor which is almost sacred in his circles. DM – the ultimate copywriter – was shattered as soon as he read your blog and a new array of orders were probably issued to destroy you at any cost, again.
It is one thing to expose factors resulting in bad PR for him, but to shatter his own ego is nuclear meltdown. Could be wrong, but possibly another angle to consider why you suddenly get potential child murderers visiting your door step again…
I guess, I forgot to mention that my quantum synchronistic entanglement prediction needs to be interpreted using the (informational) entropic uncertainty principle.
Are you yawning, Ronnie? 🙂
In plain English: It looks like Marty’s yesterday post caused the predicted implicit effect in Co$, however the particular outcome of that effect is (still?) not exactly the predicted one.
Now this is truly signs of success!
Be afraid Missmanage, be VERY afraid.
Christ, one wonders what kicks in mentally on these people. He has already been caught, he’s on film so he thinks he has to speed away at 60 mph in a 20 zone. For what?! Like that is going to erase the video in Marty’s camera? Imagine going through life being chased by demons–when you are awake! What happens when he goes to sleep at night?
Right! And LRH wrote only the introduction to Child Dianetics. The rest was written by, gasp!, child psychologists and, I think, teachers who had become interested in applying the principles of Dianetics to that unusual species in our midst. Children seem to be halfway between gods and animals and, in a way, it is kind of a shame when they turn into humans. It is kind of neat to hear a two year old talking about his life before he was baby Sam. By the time he was 5 he no longer remembered it.
Information from Smurf at ESMB:
Name: PROWLER INVESTIGATIONS
License Number: A16374
Company Code: A
Category: Investigation Company
Mailing Address: PO BOX 755, CEDAR PARK, TX 78630
Company Status: Active
Company Expiration Date: 3/31/2013
Insurance Expiration Date: 3/30/2013
Ben Herndon –
Hire Date: 08/16/2011
P.I. License Issued – 9/16/2011
The T/A’s movin’ again!
I liked the last blog a lot and it inspired me to sign up for a course from an Independent course supervisor. I’m now on the Hubbard Qualified Scientologist course and a big part of it will be
TRs and Objectives. I kicked it off with a little repair auditing from an Independent Auditor. I had already read the late Richard Feynman’s book “What Do You Care What Other People Think?”
So I bypassed the deep discussion on physics; reasoning that his
little finger knew more about physics than I would ever know. Instead I watched his little finger in action:
Isn’t this what the CO$ really dreads? That people will finally figure out that the CO$ has no credibility at all and that the gains are to be had in the Independent arena.
In Texas you need a license to be a private investigator. You can file a complaint here (If you haven’t done so already) http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/psb/consumer/info_complaints.htm
Surely Ben has enough sense to jack up his insurance limits on that not-exotic convertible and stay current on his protection payments in Corpus Christi.
If it weren’t for the serious issue of the child being endangered this would be farcical. The church of scientology, read David Miscavige, just can’t help showing itself up.
Hadn’t noticed but Prowler investigations does sound quite seedy.
Ben, I hope you read this. WTF are you doing? Do you know? Is money worth endangering children to you? What if you killed that child? What if you wrecked a families life? Is it worth it to get charged with criminal negligent homicide, and risk going to state prison for 2 years in Texas? Is money really that high on your priority list to be worth the risk? More importantly, don’t you value life? Is it worth selling your soul for something you have no idea why you’re doing what you’re doing? Take another look at what you’re doing and WHY you’re doing it, then assess if it’s worth it.
Marty, your excellent Preamble to the TR’s was a “SIN of Text” to the fundamentalist Church of Scientology, Marty. You thought your own thoughts, made your own analysis, and wrote your own words, and then had the audacity to “mix it” (your understanding) with Hubbard’s tech.
The biggest Scientologist squirrel on Earth (David Miscavige) doesn’t like other “squirrels”. He especially doesn’t like “squirrels” who have a thorough understanding of Scientology tech. Especially because Miscavige doesn’t. If what you are is a “squirrel”, then I love squirrels.
David Miscavige is going insane because you’re impossible to “teach” that LRH is supposed to do all your thinking for you. How dare you think for yourself! Don’t you know “it’s best” to be a good submissive, robotic auditor, who can’t think WITH the data, and doesn’t understand or apply ARC? Haven’t you learned yet that David Miscavige is the only one “authorized” to refine LRH tech. That only David Miscavige is able to make Scientology more accessible and credible to the world? (Even though David Miscavige has been the ultimate epic fail at this.)
Clearly, squirreling is David Miscavige’s biggest “hot button”. Why? Because that’s exactly who he is. (Nothing new to this blog) Of course, Davey punk blames the very crime HE is doing, on you. That’s what SP’s do. He’s the very person he’s trying to portray you are. David KNOWS he’s a squirrel. (However, I doubt he knows he’s a sociopath.)
I believe you hammered his psycho pet squirrel-button too hard. It’s endlessly bullbaiting him. Please, please keep on pressing his button hard until he finally reaches his final psychotic break, and clearly demonstrates to the world this sociopath finally needs to be put in prison.
David Miscavige’s criminal activity has thwarted the progress of Scientology tech for at least 26 years too long. He’s deprived 10’s of thousands (if not 100’s of thousands, or perhaps even millions of people) from living a better life. To me, that’s the ultimate of high crimes.
I’m getting so, so sick and tired of the tyranny from this dictator crook. I feel like it’s Ground Hog’s day every day. When is that MFP finally going down? I pray for the day we never have to talk about this sociopath again.
Almost nothing irritates me worse than some jackass speeding through a neighborhood. Seems you did the right thing Marty, got his number on video. Can you say, B U S T E D ! Amazing the riffraff associations the Midget will stoop to, and if you really think about it, who else could it be?
As a hard core 1.1 Miscarriage hates children.
Try to imagine him holding his hat as a father…….
I would guess DM is somewhat agitated with your choice of writings, and he’s pissed off. Good for you. A camera are our best friend.
A camera is our best friend.
More info on Mr. Solid, In Hiding, Miscavige Robot, Ben Herndon:
Decided to Google Prowler Investigations Corpus Christi. This blog is the first result the official site is 2nd.
Their site mentions their discreet service and how they promote safer neighborhoods. LOL.
Doesn’t this guy and/or the firm have to be licensed for a PI shingle? A complaint/investigation on record at the licensing bureau wouldn’t hurt.
Marty clearly you continue to get under DM’s skin….GREAT WORK:)
On a different note , I can’t put my finger on it but something feels very odd about the tragic loss of Director Tony Scott this weekend, his close assiciation with Tom Cruise, perhaps it’s just the way unusual deaths and misery that surroynd some prople/organisations
Since we haven’t seen any of these overt capers for a while, I thought that maybe some of Miscavige’s outside legal or PR advisers had talked him out of this sort of foolishness. Perhaps they did but, if so, it seems that he is still incapable of following anyone’s advice, no matter how sane or intelligent. It seems that this is one of his bigger personal weaknesses.
Marty, remember how you and others have pointed out in the past that whenever you promote the delivery of Standard Tech outside the COS, Miscavige seems to loose it? Well, it occurs to me that just yesterday you posted information about how you are delivering TRs 0-9 at Casa Blanca, didn’t you? Today, you get stalked again by a “prowler” hired by the COS. Miscavige probably refuses to recognize that this type of behavior is an overt act. He probably, as usual, will not recognize the connection between this overt act and the motivator which he is already pulling in, then blame and feel betrayed by the “incompetent idiots” who were following his directions and feel oh so sorry for himself.
LRH said that when one introduces order, disorder blows off.
So please just keep delivering, keep introducing more order, and let Miscavige just blow off.
Marty, it may be that your Introduction to Training Routines 0-9 is material of religious philosophy scripture but next time please write something about children, too. The reason being that some adults are struggling to make a living in this world or keep their position in space at no cost, even to child endangerment. Well, they have to be constantly reminded, I guess.
Again Marthy catching the worm. It again confirms DM has time and money to spend chasing some one that exposes the truth of what DM spends public money on at any expense what so ever.
My wife was on her way to build a Child Guidance Center as described in “Child Dianetics”.
She was so successful that on Sundays she had about 60 people (children and parents) being together and the church was nearly empty because of it.
The solution of the Org, instead of delivering better services was to destroy the whole activity of my wife. She was bodily thrown out of the Org at the end !
What is David Miscavige’s rule and reign ?
I have an answer to this question. I found it in Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary :
Definition of TYRANNY
: oppressive power ; especially : oppressive power exerted by government
a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state
b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force
: an oppressive, harsh, or unjust act : a tyrannical act
What turns it on will turn it off – TR data did this? well… more of the same please.
Another fine example of Miscavige carrying out LRH’s policy to maintain friendly relations with the neighbors.
Marty, you ought to have known a post like that was going to enturbulate Dear Leader. i’m happy that your young neighbour remains unharmed, no thanks to David Miscivage and his mercenaries i’m sure
Wow, Marty — sounds like there’s bad blood between you and Tony O. I don’t mean to open a wound — just didn’t realize this was going on.
Inter alia, I love how you’re getting right in DM’s face with these posts. He seems like kind of guy who would be pretty thin-skinned about this.
“Evidently Elvis did not leave the building in CoS Inc., but all the brains did.”
….and so did his daughter.
This is another demonstration of the well-known datum that David Miscavige acts like a criminal child. The only thing that restrains his evil purposes and destructive intentions is when he knows someone is watching and the consequences will blow back on him directly. If he knows the media are watching, he curtails himself. If he is worried about law enforcement or some other government agency taking action, he backs off. But like the bad dog who pees on the carpet when his master goes into another room and he thinks he isn’t being seen and nobody will know it was him — he suffers the consequences of his inability to predict the future.
There is no hope that Miscavige will ever reform his ways. He is truly incorrigible (one of his favorite words) and there are ONLY two things that will keep him from dramatizing his ev purps:
1. Constant, 24 hour a day supervision like a prisoner on suicide watch, or
2. Remove his ability to harm anyone other than himself.
And for those who are of the opinion that the problems with church are not generated by Dear Leader, I can guarantee you, there is nobody anywhere in the “Church” of Scientology who would initiate a “noisy investigation” on Marty Rathbun without express, specific orders from Miscavige. They may be cowed fools who will carry out his orders, but they understand what the outcome would be of a stunt like this — and they fear that if they had initiated this they would feel the “wrath of God” when Dear Leader read your blog this morning. ONLY he can order this sort of insanity when it comes to Marty Rathbun, nobody else has the authority to do so (or the courage not to fear the repercussions from Miscavige when it blew up and he hadn’t ordered it).
You know he is sitting in his bunker in an absolute neck vein-popping tizzy. It’s all going wrong and he cannot lash out. There’s nobody left to grind into small pieces in his inner sanctum, beating on them at this point is like punching a barrel of jello. The media are ravaging him and his BFF, but he can’t do anything about it because he is terrified of being put on the spot and asked the questions he cannot answer — and now he has nobody left at all that can speak to a reporter so it’s reduced down to threat letters that nobody takes seriously any more. And worst of all is that punk Rathbun who is a total “nobody” that he obsesses over every waking minute. He believes his position as the most prominent figure in Scientology is being stolen from him by some guy who lives in a normal house in Texas with a computer and a blog. For fuck’s sake he doesn’t even drive a BMW or fly in his own jet!! And that is most galling of all. So, in a fit of rage he issues the order “Get in Marty’s face again. It hasn’t accomplished anything to back off from him, you are all just a bunch of spineless pussies….” And off they go again, delivering more footnukes.
If you ever want to see proof that criminals destroy themselves and leave clues so they are caught — Exhibit 1: David Miscavige.
It sucks to be Miscavige.
Spot on, I’d say.
So how does it end? Retreat to some offshore extradition haven? Last stand in the bunker at Int Base?
I find it hard to imagine there’s anybody left on the inside with the brains and will to organize a coup.
Actually, that’s a good idea… contact his insurance company as well as the licensing folks!
No bad blood; just a straight, factual statement.
To David Miscavige and Ben Herndon of Prowler Investigations,
how about the goals of Scientology as set up by LRH?
“Another factor which probably made DM’s synapses snap terminals with each other resulting in a schizophrenic overload of his brain only a high voltage electrician could defuse, ”
David Miscavige’s gonna need a thicker copper rod.
What are you talking about Tony? Miscaviges PR is straight up and vertical, 1000x any previous year in history combined stacked up to the moon through the roof.
I don’t think it was your excellent intro to TRs that prompted Mein Führer to send out a PI to stalk your home. It was written in good English and offered fresh perspective on the value of TRs, so there is no way the illiterate little twerp could have grasped what you were trying to convey. He probably fell asleep or reached for the bottle.
No, I think he’s trying to ID those still under the radar who are secretly paying a visit to Casablanca. There are still a lot of apostates left to declare and he needs to maintain the affluence trend. Because that’s his only stat that is way UP. “Number of SPs Conspiring Against Me Whom I Have Excommunicated.” It’s in screaming affluence. He must be feeling SO good.
Now, if that means slaying a few children in the process, it’s all part of the job. After all, he sure got his fair share of kills with the forced abortions.
Well done on getting on Errol Sayin’. That’s exactly what DM dreads – Scientology applied, beings moving on, living full lives, winning, falling down, getting back up with some new KRC. You know, enjoying a better game in their own estimation. Eight Dynamics. Life.
A slight divergence, but here is an interesting article from Israel:
David Miscavige is an object lesson in the PTS/SP material. The maelstrom that his personal universe is, spread out, embroiling others in his turmoil who then become troubled and trouble.
Whatever triggered this feeble attempt at pushing in anchor points with this lovely gentleman Ben Herndon, in these literal death throes and fits that Dave is experiencing, it would seem the lag time on “return to sender” of his ill will is shortening.
I mean this one has gone SWAP, right back at ya’ Dave in microseconds, maybe (as MaBu suggests) with no time intervening and truly “spooky action at a distance”.
Dave – BOO!
If I could get my hands on D.M.’s daily “To Do List”
and post it here, readers would think its a joke. Because nobody
could be that insane and paranoid.
I do like Mark Rinders style of wording in the response to Marthy’s issue on endangerment He does put it blunty on this character DM, who is playing his own game to destroy only himself.
It certaintly shows DM does not like some one outside pointing the evidence of destruction and dramatization of their own evil purposes towards justice , and trys to come running with some bullshit stand over watch for what ever purpose other than to harrass / and report lies and dirt on Rathburn . I surpose Dm thinks by doing this he gets the better of him hoping Rathburn cracks. It just confirms and shows DM is cracking and running out of options.
Ben has apparently been with Ability Financial Group since 1991.
“Ability” Financial Group. Hmm. Interesting name. The proprietor is Dayne Vickers. I wonder if he knows about Ben’s “other job”? I’m guessing Ben is not selling many healthcare plans these days(that seems to be part of Ability’s product line), and is trying to get ahead or maybe just make ends meet.
All that has to happen to neuter Miscavige when he goes into one of his insanities is simply to turn one’s back and walk away. And he will be completely powerless. But wearing a uniform and pretending to be a “homo novis” won’t do it. It will take certainty of self as a being and some real confront.
And of course exposing Miscavige’s and the CoS’s crimes should be done on the internet on a continual basis. Outflowing truth is a good thing.
The creeps are back again! This follows right after one of the most theta and enlightening discussion on this blog.Nobody was attacking David Miscavage,
we were engaged in free and open philosophical discussion.
Communication and thought is that dangerous to you?
David Miscavage you and your minions are the modern incarnation of that old Middle Ages evil cult called the Roman Catholic Inquisition.
DM, you are nothing but a wannabe Tomas de Torquemada, a self appointed “Grand Inquisitor”. The year is 2012, USA, there is now a constitution with laws that protect people against insane tyrants like you. Come to present time!
Miscavage would not give a rats ass if that guy killed the little girl. He doesn’t care about human life. He cares about money and not getting caught.
Scilon, it is really a stretch, and disrespectful to boot, to try to drag Tony Scott into the implosion of DM’s anti-Scientology empire. Ridiculous.
Maybe every auditor, every pc, every student in the Independent field should start posting all of their wins. All of the successful application of Scientology out in the real world.
I think it would be a great idea.
This is very, very bad karma. I suspected that Mr. Miscavige would not
like the discussion on the TR’s. Here is Mr. Miscavige who claims to have no ‘reactive mind’ acting in violence again. Shame on you, Mr. Miscavige.
May reactive minds dissolve into happiness!
Mike R- I just love your vein popping stories about DM.
David Miscavige was finally able to “prove” that he is pulling Marty’s strings and successfully created an effect on him by interrupting his day and making him come out to video a nobody, thereby wasting his time. As a result, Miscavige was able to show that he is cause and Marty is effect.
Hah! Good one 🙂
Herndon forgot the head camera and blue T-Shirt. He is of the same ilk like Allender and the other guy – but even more coward.
DM just can’t learn from the past foot bullets but “has to be right” – no matter the costs.
Marty, the TR’s post was the best ever – and the comments and debates that ensued….. fascinating and riveting! And interesting that these topics get non scns interested and engaged in the debate….scientists, lurkers, indies…everyone and anyone; over 250 comments in 24 hours (more or less). People are ENGAGED. This is ARC. This is what may be galling to DM too!. As Mike Rinder says – in your house with a pc and blog you have created more of an effect than millions of dollars of ideal org etc programmes. You get new people !!
Marty, would you ever consider a paper publication of the Best of the Blog – say, annually? The top ten or so posts with the comments – as is – no editing. (Maybe with a glossary). (I would donate toward a leatherbound edition for you know who! – kidding!)
Hummm…I suppose it’s also possible that dave’s meddling in narconon is even more sinister than has thus far been reported. I dunno, but maybe he’s trying to find out who the sources of information are that Marty alluded to a couple of days ago.
Miscavige will most certainly be blowing off the best staff at narconon, while retaining mind-numbed, obedient robots. Those good staff just might want to be saying something about dave’s interference with narconon’s operations. You can bet your boots that a lawsuit by the victim’s families is on the way. Is there a connection between davey and the deaths? I mean, I don’t have any knowledge of such, but wherever there is a real disaster in the wonderful world of scientology, davey seems to be right there directing the action.
Looks like what LRH calls the Second Phenomenon of misunderstoods.
I’m sure DM thinks that he can just hide behind these attack dogs he sends out. If one of them screws up and turns a child and their puppy into roadkill, he thinks he can just stand back and say it wasn’t his doing. Boy is he in for a rude awakening one of these days . . . You can run, but you can’t hide, Davey boy. Must really suck aways running into walls because you’re constantly looking over your shoulder . . . tick tock, tick tock . . .
Actually, no. That was really good! 🙂
If he was really only there as an attempt to intimidate or get in your face, gawd what a colossal waste of time and money.
Nice facebook pic, Ben! From way back in the day when you had hair and no belly paunch. But you did have little man-boobs then, peeking out from under your shirt… what are you now, Ben, a DD?
I was at one time interested in Scientology and did contact the web site for some information. I did read Dianetics, (found an old paperback) and the person I was corresponding with suggested the library however it does not carry any books suggested. That person was appalled and wanted to contact Saginaw library system to find out what happened to all the books that the organization sent them. Sorry don’t know the end result, but they still don’t have any books. Anyway this guy sent me a lot of introductory info and the prices listed were enough to stop any further inquiry on my part. I am at poverty level and was curious to explore. I am Roman Catholic and yes we to charge for books that are sold in their bookstore. However a priest will be more than happy to GIVE a person anything to assist them in their inquiry. It seems that in order to be a Scientologist you must have loads of money otherwise go away.
It seems also your DM has gone off the rails. Isn’t there anyway to remove this clown. Can you not place a legal restraint on him? If a person is a threat to themselves or others can not you place them, by law, in a mental health facility? No one around who cares? or who has the guts to remove him or is he so protected that there is no hope other than letting it all go up in flames?
He is freaky and frightening. I can understand why the former Mrs. Cruise separated herself and her child from the scary craziness. I wish you all success, luck and safety from this deranged individual.
Safe, As much as I like and relate to your post I have only one comment.
When you said:
“Ben, I hope you read this. WTF are you doing? Do you know? Is money worth endangering children to you? What if you killed that child? What if you wrecked a families life? Is it worth it to get charged with criminal negligent homicide, and risk going to state prison for 2 years in Texas? Is money really that high on your priority list to be worth the risk? More importantly, don’t you value life? Is it worth selling your soul for something you have no idea why you’re doing what you’re doing? Take another look at what you’re doing and WHY you’re doing it, then assess if it’s worth it.”
I cannot see how such an individual (Ben) would get anything out of your questions to him. You are obviously so much higher toned and he is so obviously lower toned that there is no way he would even recognize your comments as a communication much less be able to answer them. But good job for asking anyway!
I corroborate your event with a similar event from Tustin in 2008. I reported it multiple times to the Tustin police and they refused to act on it.
A high level scientologist from the Tustin org (an OT-8, I’m told) was discovered trying to spy on me. He took off at full speed exceeding all the speed limits in Tustin by a wide margin. I was able to calculate his speed exactly by the camera time stamps. I reported everything to the Tustin police. Anybody recognize him?
Here’s a side view of the guy:
Car is a Lexus ES300
Look at the reckless driving back and forth across the lanes:
He drove through the 40 MPH sign at 80 MPH
He entered this 25 MPH SCHOOL zone at over 60 MPH.
He almost crashed into this picup truck as he could not stop for the light.
California License plate 5CUT500
Please help stop this reckless public endangerement.
There is a bit of a silver lining here. LRH writes about the “group confusion formula” (pg 96 of blue Ethics Book) He says” The formula to be applied by a group which is in the condition of confusion is: FIND OUT WHAT YOU ARE.”
For this group, that step is complete in that it could be said that by differentiating one would know that he/she is not an SP but that an SP does exist in the area.
It is beneficial to have a clear differentiation on this matter and know “where the Midget is” ….”That the Midget is a Suppressive Thing” (don’t really want to call it a person) which is the Treason condition and also Who It Is and that the who has a name which identifies the Thing (IT) as one David Miscaviage …….aka POB ………aka …. “One who Sucks Copious Quantities of foul, vile Bile!
His job of identifying is actually very easy. All he has to do is declare anyone who does not attend his perverted little implant events or who has not coughed up any furballs of C-notes during the events “special presentations” as they are being called. That should cover most of us!
I know of a “still in kool-aide consumer” who went to an event this summer and although in mega debt still gave $100.00 to the “special event” presenter so as not to be viewed as having counter intention. My comment was “anything less that 10Gs will be viewed as CI !”
Just a bit concerned that some posts were put up and then taken down,, I understand if something is too ‘off topic’ to be posted, but to post and then take down? truth and transparency are usually the solution to Black Dianetics.
Back in 1988, I recall a staff briefing regarding the Universe Corps once SH had been achieved. Amongst the many and varied abilities OT 3 would rehabilitate – other than using planets as “billiard balls”, “bending spoons”, “levitation”, “seeing through walls”, “pulling in the perfect 2D” (blondes for guys, Tom Cruise for girls) etc. etc – was the impossibility of ever becoming PTS again. The proof offered was the “incredible thetans who worked in OSA” who required OT3 as a job requisite in order to “confront some of the worst suppression on earth today”. Quite unlike the insectoids that now plague Marty of course.
And yet, in all my journey in and around Scientology (and I confess it is not as complete as some of you have had), it seems to me that it is only Marty who has fully demonstrated complete non-PTSness and the ability to confront chronic suppression ( from the human-rights-lovin’-cult ), and all for daring to voice an alternative point of view.
Good grief, Miscavige really is that stupid! After all the bad PR he created with the “squirrel busters,” he goes and does it again! What an assbag.
Way off topic, and far too speculative to qualify for truth-seeking objectives of this blog.
all needles STOP FLOATING NOW……
Being “OT”, he probably felt he was exempt from the laws of the physical universe, and later pointed to his “escape” as an example of his OT powers.
Thanks Marty, feel more comfortable!!
Marty definitely pulled in the perfect 2D but he is not that good at pool. And I am best at bending sppons. Unless you mean bending them without actually touching them. Then Marty wins again.
Chapter 1 Basic Dianetics Principles
2 Our Geatest Problem
3 Toward a Saner World
4 Standard Dianetic Technique
5 Dianetic Processing For Children
6 Dianetics in Childcare
7 An auditors Report
8 Special Technique For Children
9. Sessions With Children
10 Some Cases in Point
11 A Look Ahead
12 Child Guidance Centers
Written by Child psychologists?
I don’t believe it. Surely if Hubbard was helped compiling it, Scientologists would have been involved. There are sample auditing sessions in the book. Hubbard says in the introduction , “It is STAFF collected and STAFF written”.
At any rate, he endorses it and it seems to be based on Dianetics principles. The book has value.
I like your analogy of children. They do seem to halfway between Gods and something else as they acclimate themselves. Don’t know if it’s an “animal”. One of my sons did have full whole track recall until he was about 4. He asked me to get him to a “mind clearer” when he was 12. He is on grade zero now. He was born across the street from the A.O.L.A..
Having just read the last post (it was awesome!), this knee jerk reaction by Miscavige makes sense in a reversed way.
Here we go again….
I’m glad the child wasn’t harmed. Best to your neighbors!
As you know, I have also gotten some PIs on me last week. Unfortunately the closest contact was so much of a surprise that I didn’t have cameras or cell phone ready to capture. It so surprised me, my natural reaction was to do a Rinder when he followed me out of my property, doing a duck, weave bob … getting behind him, watching him react like a redfish trying to get off a hook, got his license plate, then he calmed down and followed the exact speed limit and I followed him out of town. Ran his plates, which came back to Enterprise Rent a Car.
Don’t know for sure if it was the same guy, I am face book messaging him and asking him. Mine had a hat on, and similar facial hair and different sunglasses.
Reported the matter to the local Sheriff, put up enough no trespassing signs on my my half mile drive way to resemble a scene from Texas Chain Saw Massacre, and have laid the ground work for charges for trespassing and stalking to be issued on further incidents.
Per one of my attorneys, the absolute most productive strategy for preventing PIs harassing overtly or covertly, as in this case, are the anti stalking laws. Sheriff confirmed this. These actions by the COS are terrorism in their nature. The important thing in dealing with law enforcement is to get the time and undivided attention of an official, and to explain the matter in a way they can understand.
For Texans at least, if you have a plate of a suspicious vehicle, and you explain in succinct terms what is happening, the Texas Tax Assessors office can run the plates for $3.00 and give ownership and purchase of the vehicle. We also use a national public data service to allow us to run checks on everyone from employees to vendors to customers.
Not sure why I have become so important again. I have set my life up so that they can’t do much to me, overtly or covertly. But I simply will not stand for those close to me being harassed or feeling unsafe. It is my obligation to maintain a safe and secure and calm space for those with me, either working with me or guests in my home, as purely a visitor, or someone needing peace and quiet to decompress.
David Miscavage, I will not tolerate you harassing those around me, my friends, or people that need a hand. You have a problem with me, get your ass over here and look me in the eye. Your crumbling house of cards can not survive your current course of action.
My theory on why Scientologists can be a little gnarly, is that they have been made aware of their case. While they may come off as crazier than some, they are actually the better for at least knowing the situation is. They have a tough burden to carry that others do not. My successful action was to stay away from Scientologists and the Org until I was clear. I just came in for auditing and left and when I was not there I did not think about it. Otherwise the burden may have been great for me. There were people who could rise above it and channel energy into a sane purpose line, such as your wife. Those most creative were pillaged upon by those with the largest struggles with it.
He must be very, very desperate right now.
I take it you’ve notified the local law enforcement and your neighbors regarding this menace to society, David Miscavige, the Radical Corporate “Church” of $cientology, and the goons that are hired by them. Also, in Texas aren’t you legally allowed to shoot vermin on your property? I know my Uncle Jed would have.
LDW, I think you have hit the nail on the head. The PI is DM’s response to Marty’s terse comment here:
Miscavige wants to know who the 2 sources of information are and will probably do anything he can think of to spy on Marty – phone taps, email and computer hacking, stalking by PIs etc.
Marty, be on your toes!
Nice pen name for posting. Well said and broader points to think with. Thank you!
Thanks. But your attorney’s advice is ill-informed and just plain wrong in Texas. Have him show you one case that bears the slightest resemblance to your circumstances. He cannot. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
you enjoyed us with : “… was the impossibility of ever becoming PTS again. The proof offered was the ‘incredible thetans who worked in OSA’ who required OT3 as a job requisite in order to ‘confront some of the worst suppression on earth today’ …”.
As a matter of fact, a number of those “pts-free” OSA people have BROUGHT ABOUT long term situations that are considered by Scientologists as suppression !
Ever heard about the suppression of Scientologists in Germany ? What ‘church’ people never tell you is that OSA Germany ( and earlier the Guardian Office ) were involved in death threats, wiretapping, burglaries, violence against opponents, stalking and more. All perfectly organized, off course.
No wonder the German government treats the ‘church’ like a criminal organization.
your wife was not the first one to raise the wrath of the local org because of her successful field acitivities.
Nor will she be the last one.
Frankly, if I recall all Scientology orgs I have been to in the 1970ies + 1980ies + 1990ies, I must admit that they were all islands of insanity. Well organized insanitiy, that is.
I would not make this statement about Scn missions.
You are diabolical. Verily a DEBBIL!!
Wow, thank you for writing. Curiously enough, your observation of the immediate barrier of too high a price for Scientology was reflected in a comment made by another non-Scientologist to me the other day.
I was at a rehearsal for a gig (I play drums) and the Music Director for this “jazz” gig, was a sax player, with a Masters in Music. In other words, somebody who has put in some time to get competent at something, and who in the course of this effort has had to take a look at some of his fellow beings and what they’ve found and written on various topics. He is “well read” so to speak, an intelligent young man, striving to learn and open to knowledge gained.
His comment, when I told him I am a Scientologist, was; “oh, that’s the religion for rich people”.
I disabused him of this and pointed out this was David Miscavige’s “vision” for the Church of Scientology.
Thank YOU sincerely for your comment today, and for being a fellow human being on this lovely blue planet that is still reaching to make it a better world, and yourself more able and aware.
P.S. There are plenty of independent Scientologists that are willing to help you in your enquiries and I’ll bet you’d find they are interested in a reasonable exchange, even “barter” to help you out. Hey, you gotta eat to keep one of these bodies going, right?
Hey, I recommend you read the link posted on the last thread by Geir Isene and perhaps, as covered in this extremely well written essay by Mr. Isene on the idea of Objective “determinism”, the entire episode you relate here was and is actually nothing other than a pre-determined at the Big Bang inevitable occurence that this poor bloke, and you apparently have absolutley no choice in experiencing.
Thank you for a giant smile. I may add, and subject to the willingness of the moderators to confront this truth, “flyfishing”, for the Atlantic salmon, salmo salar, as the undisputed pinnacle of the sport, remains with an open invitation (subject only to the completion of the construction of a suitable abode, in progress mind you) to the aforetohereinthereby mentioned Mr. et Ms. Rathbun to complete their perfection.
As well, Monsieur Brousseau is aware of this as very attainable state, and would be most welcome to aforetoherein remarked abode.
Was he wearing a ponytail too, like some Hell’s Angels wannabe?
Maybe David Miscavige is looking for same one who blew from Scientology Inc. and she/he hold important data that is danger to Miscavige and his world of lies.
Off topic announcement.
This blog was made a necessity by David Miscavige. The Independent movement was made a necessity by David Miscavige. People who seek to live with the truth will find or create a way.
The hate sites put up by the Church, the hate blogs put up by people with impulse control disorder (those still carrying the burden of a reactive mind), the false reports, lies slander and bearing of false witness planted within this arena communicate one thing: The creator / author is insane.
Hubbard defines insanity as: “The overt or covert but always complex and continuous determination to harm or destroy”.
Please understand if you are presenting yourself as a Scientologist while manifesting such insanity, you are doing yourself a dis service.
It is not your beliefs that make you a better person. It is your behavior.
Such fair gaming, betrayal of trusts with P.C. folder data, slander, degrading, anything beyond a factual report with actual data, is evidence of insanity.
Betrayal of any client whom you have profited by in terms of treasure or labor, puts one in the position of unjust enrichment. If a person or organization presents them self as a professional whom will enhance other’s lives, and then seeks to destroy, we are dealing with an insane terminal or organization.
This insanity is being sewn within this culture. By the Church and by people who are wittingly or unwittingly, working for the Church by contributing to their motion, to harm or destroy people within the Freezone or Independent Movement.
It is up to each and everyone of us, to address and correct this madness as it falls within our capabilities. Without seeking for others permission or license or agreement or support from others. Or permitting the spread of the insanity.
Marty was the first person to rise up as an Independent and put on and own his division 21 hat and wear it. He is still standing. This is a plea from me to you, to do the same thing. Wear this hat within your own realm of influence. It is O.K.. You can be trusted with the justice. You must be trusted with the justice. It is the time, it is here and now. I trust you. We must all chip in and help with this burden.
And for Marty, who has taken on a much wider scope called planetary influence, we can help ourselves by contributing our support. Financially , verbally, physically and in many other ways.
Hubbard says the common denominator between all losers is incorrect estimation of force.
The insanity and injustice will spill on to us to the extent that we ourselves do not keep it in check.
Thank you being here. Thank you for the hope and promise you manifest in this fight for what is right.
This may be a question that demonstrates how little I understand Scientology, but I am one of the non-Scientologists out here who are cheering you on as you try to save your religion. Thanks in advance for anyone who takes a shot at answering my questions. I hope someone will perhaps take a moment to educate me. Simply, how does David Miscavige claim his emperor and dictator status over Scientologists? Can Scientologists organize and petition for an open election of some sort for their leadership? I don’t understand how he has appointed himself leader for a tenure of life, and there is no recourse to this self-appointment? Further, I wonder how one man can be so dominant to influence the lives of so many and once it’s widely known that he’s abusing the power, why Scientologists don’t confront him en masse?
FWIW, not sure why the post on TRs would have triggered the reaction and the subsequent use of a PI. When I was reading the post, it reminded me of some of the passages in What Is Wrong With Scientology. I’m a non-Scientologist, but follow the blog closely and anticipate that some day I will use the some of the tools and processes of Independent Scientology, once the drama has subsided. Anyway, I don’t remember seeing any posts on CoS doing similar heavy handed stuff because of WIWWS. I assume it’s possible what happened with the PI is unrelated to the post? Anyway, it was wrong, and you are picking up lots of support amongst non-Scientologists.
It is my observation, within myself, that I have been stuck in a G.P.M. with justice until recently. I read, “mankind can not be trusted with justice” and then was moved on to the entire justice arena laid out for the Church between the ethics bbok and all courses connected in between. I thought, “Why am I being told I can not be trusted with justice, then given an entire justice system to think and act with?”
Well, we fall into one of two catagories.
A. Those that can not be trusted with justice.
B. Those that can be trusted with justice.
Clearly, we are facing off with the group that can not be trusted with justice. Before some little kid is scooped up off of the sidewalk by a manic thug hired by David Miscavige, please give yourselves a break and notice that you are on the side that can be trusted with the justice.
That is why you are here to begin with.
Oh hell Marty, here we go again with this certified, sawed-off, dramatizing psychotic that heads-up the fasting shrinking cult in the world.
Maybe David Miscabige needs a new BFF to cool-off his dwindling hormones.
Perhaps he should enlist Shelly, his missing ‘wife’, to identify his next prospect.
Then again, who in their right mind would want to be the object of affection of Pope Small Balls, this utterly failed SP?.
I don’t think I would wait for a “next time”..if you got it on video turn it in to the police so they can arrest this idiot for reckless endangerment of a minor.
Scilon, it is really a stretch, and disrespectful to boot, to try to drag Tony Scott into the implosion of DM’s anti-Scientology empire. Ridiculous.
I’m an ex-Scientologist, I have been posting on Tony’s blog for about a month, and I have also posted here a couple of times.
I oppose the personal abuses on staff, children, public, ex-Scientologists, and Independent (Indie) Scientologists that I have seen and read about in corporate Scientology. Marty is the current target of this madness.
One issue in corporate Scientology is the neglect of children. In the late 1980s, I joined class IV org staff as a young man, and I went to Clearwater as an outer org trainee. There I audited several young CMO and sea org members. It was something I was called on to do fairly regularly. I suspect this was because we were fairly close in age [Indies may call this increased reality]. Frankly, I enjoyed meeting these young people.
The stories I heard from these children struck me as real and current problems in Scientology. As a middle class young man of university age, the neglect was very far from what I had previously experienced. These children saw a lot. Adults may have been be too busy to pay attention to them, but the children paid attention to what was going on. As I sat behind an e-meter, these young Scientologists gave me a tour of Clearwater that most miss.
It is the neglect of the young which strikes a chord with me today. There is post on this blog by Scientologist X, a privileged young Scientologist, who describes the neglect the writer’s young eyes have witnessed, again I point out that adults may miss what this young person does not. I highly recommend reading that post, even if you stop reading what I am writing.
Where we (I and the Indies) disagree is Ron. I do not see Ron in favourable light. From what I can tell, what you dislike in Scientology now existed before Miscavige grabbed the reigns.
Hana Whitfield, former D/Commodore (US), clear #60, and Avon River captain spoke in Hamburg a few years ago where she discussed Hubbard’s brutality, she also discusses the awe with which she saw Hubbard, and her voyage on the yacht Enchanter. I highly recommend it to Indies, there are multiple sides to Hubbard. Sharone Stainforth was a 10-year-old messenger on board the Royal Scotsman and she told her story at a Dublin offlines conference this year. If you are interested you can find these stories on the Internet. Ron DeWolf, who has been Photoshoped out of recent clearing congress videos, even claimed he was beating people up for his father in the 1950s.
As a side topic, with regards to Miscavige, Hana gave an affidavit in 1994 where she discusses her conversations with Florence Barnett, Shelly Barnett’s mother, prior to Flo’s dramatic suicide. Hana mentions how Miscavige had to avoid being seen as PTS as he was involved in Scientology’s finances at the time. Tony Ortega recently interviewed the Los Angels Sheriff who investigated the death. The Sheriff discussed how he became convinced the death from multiple gunshots was in fact a suicide.
Dewolf and Hana made their claims in pursuit of fortunes – so ought to be read, if at all, with that FACT in mind.
THIS STATEMENT IS A BLATANT LIE: OSA Germany were involved in death threats, wiretapping, burglaries, violence against opponents
Nice comment Oracle. 🙂
“newcomer” By ‘this group’, you mean us Independent Scientologists ?
Oh, so very sorry. I reject your false assignment of a condition below Non-existence to *this group*. Also, the rest of your comment is go much glib gibberish.
Michael A. Hobson
Cruise told the world in his famous video that ‘only scientologists can help’. At the very least he may have thought that his OT Powers should have picked up that his good friend was suicidal.
OR….Under the leadership of Miscavige the church of scientology is increasingly into hypnosis and mind control. Is it possible that Cruise, bruised by Homes’ divorce and by another good director friend making The Master, may have tried to ‘help’ Scott by doing a touch of mind magic which left his head totally screwed up. If so it will by no means be the first time that a corporate scientologist has (inadvertently) caused someone to commit suicide.
Whether he did any scientology with Scott while they were researching in Nevada or not, Cruise must be feeling absolutely gutted and very alone. Might Miscavige or someone be worried that he or someone on his behalf may try to contact the man who was his great help as an auditor?
Not a simple answer. But if you really want to know, read http://www.savescientology.com. You’ll have to read the whole site to get the whole idea.
Well said — I hadn’t thought of how apt the Elvis metaphor was!
WOW! David The Menace just never stops to make a foolish looser of himself, using goofy P.I.s to surveil on his behalf of course. Perhaps in return Independents could video-record the clubbed seals who go to orgs to obtain true squirilled services, and could then post the videos for us to see WHO is contributing to his madness.
Ben Herndon ←
• Is there something about you that someone failed to find out ???
After reading your comment, I got some cognitive dissonance.
You wrote “A high level scientologist from the Tustin org (an OT-8, I’m told)”, and then you are asking for help to recognize him.
I hope “the algorithm analyst responsible for the relativistic error calculations that affect GPS corrections of the WAAS GPS aircraft navigation system” can help me to resolve my cognitive dissonance.
I think is good idea…so they can see the independent field is wining using real Scientology.
Whatever LRH’s flaws may have been, the tech he created was working well at one time. Now it’s not. Our job is to find out how it was altered, and go back to what worked. Even if both the original workable tech AND the current unworkable tech were entirely Ron’s doing, so what? Our task is still to go back to what worked when it was working. That applies to everything Scientological — the tech, the organization, everything. All this attention to Ron’s outpoints is added inapplicable data, and functions to dead agent him regarding what he did right. No one is or ever was perfect. Get over it. Find out when the tech was working effectively, people were happy with the results, and the stats were uptrending. What were the successful actions of that time? Do that. That’s it. That’s all.
You said, “There’s nobody left to grind into small pieces in his inner sanctum, beating on them at this point is like punching a barrel of jello.”
In a bow to Marty’s previous post, I would have said, “beating on them at this point is like punching a barrel of Non-Newtonian fluids.”
newcomer said: “For this group, that step is complete…”
But, I get the rest of what you’re saying, maybe he/she’s a newcomer in more ways than one.
I tend to be a “give ’em enough rope and they’ll hang themselves” kind of guy on things like this. Were you intending to help newcomer with your comment?
No big. Just an observation
Mr Potato Head needs to slow his ass down!
David Miscavidge ←
You should send private investigators out for this instead:
Beautiful. Thank you.
” he may have …… Is it possible …….. The Master, may have …… If so …. Whether he did …… Cruise must be ……. Might Miscavige or someone …….. .”
Anything is possible in “maybe” land.
Maybe David had a bad dinner today. It is possible Tom scratched his face today. If so he could have handled a PTP. Whether he did or not we can only wonder.
Cruise was probably alive today, or we would have heard about his death. That is only a probability. It isn’t something we could really know at this point. Illusion is a probability also.
Thank you for your perspective. The Church of Scientology didn’t used to charge so much years ago… even factoring in inflation. There was often a “Free Center” at Churches where people could receive auditing free from student auditors. You don’t see that happening any more, unfortunately.
But here is some good news. And I think that it is one of the biggest little secrets in subject of Scientology. There is a book entitled “Self Analysis” by Hubbard which has instructions for auditing yourself! It is the first auditing I ever had in Scientology and it changed my life for the better. You can also use it to audit friends and family. Paperback editions are available on line cheap – and guess what? ….they have exactly the same words in them as the hardback “Cadillac” editions!
Have fun! 🙂
Village voice thriving on sick degenerates? Nice generality Marty. I read that blog daily and it’s commenters are very well spoken and informed. Tony O. exposes the truth and does a better job of it than anyone.
“On Will”: http://www.scribd.com/doc/64408473/On-Will
When was the last time Minerva clarified that some egregious ad hominem against Marty was a lie?
I am with NYC Chick!
Sorry. This was a reply to Jane, three posts above.
There is a rumor going around I have been driven insane in the Independent Movement, I am incoherent and suicidal. I am a danger to society that is stalking and issuing death threats. I can not duplicate.
I can just see someone copy pasting this unattached reply and the fingers working furiously to forward it with comments with the overt or covert but always complex and continuous determination to harm or destroy.
For David Miscavige, Jenny Linson, and the others inside the Church or out, whom are patriotic and broil at any signal of an op term or differing opinion. I know you have been put under stress and discomfort with the American idea of human and civil rights granted with freedom of thought and speech. And these threats of individuality burdensome. Surely there is someplace where this is not tolerated and you can be safe? Yes! I have found your dream abode:
Just a quick reply: One death threat made it to the German courts:
On 19.3.1996, a scientologist in Heidelberg is convicted to pay a fine for threatening to murder a 17 year old, who was critical of scientology and member of the students organization of the CDU party. He had said: “This is a real death threat from a real scientologist”.
Morddrohung – AG Heidelberg 7 Cs 15 Js 4193/95 Urteil vom 28.11.95 Verurteilung gem. § 241 StGB wegen Bedrohung mit einem Verbrechen (“Dies ist eine richtige Morddrohung, und das haben sie jetzt gehört von einem richtigen Scientologen”)
AussieCase, you’re right. There were indeed multiple sides to Hubbard, and it is this fact that prevents me from pigeon-holing him as either the absolute “saint” or “charlatan” so many others seem to enjoy doing. Debating the intricacies of Hubbard’s personality will forever be of interest to some, but for me is an endeavour that is fast becoming irrelevant. As an Indie Scientologist I am interested in the self-enhancement and therapeutic benefit I believe is attainable from the application of certain Scientological principles and in standard auditing technology. Outside of doing what is written and observing the result, focusing on the dead guy is kinda redundant, imho.
Flyfishing is also probably related to remote viewing. Notice the anglers re-locating the fly so often and probing the depths with more than the eyes in their head. Good selection Jim for a true demonstration of cause.
I hope you get some takers but bobbing for baitfish in Texas is just so damm easy and predictable its hard to give up.
Good point. Indies do not have the same viewpoint on LRH anyway. The tech, and the man who cobbled it together, need to and can be separated in order to advance in use.
What if most of the people in the world would nottry to use lightbulbs because they read that Thomas Edison was brutal with his employees or profited from his patents. Isnt that throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Actually, if the could see the beneifit of the lighbulb, they would care little if at all for the inventors shortcommings.
If LRH’s true mission was to clear the planet,etc, he should be willing to have himself thrown under the bus as needed to further the goal.
Was he OSA?
Ex-scientologist: Hana was while IN the Sea Org a cold fish. Unkind. Self-serving and highly arrogant. I didn’t know her well but she never seemed to go out of her way to foster friendship. Her ex-husband Guy, on the other hand, was highly trained and very kind.
Ron Hubbard Jr., was rude, arrogant and disrespectful. The early tapes you can hear him disrupt the lectures, make snide remarks and his dad (Ron) would always just kindly say — oh, well, let’s just move on.
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I read Tony Ortega’s site daily mainly for his articles which are often quite good in content. The comments BY AND LARGE seem like the rantings of the uninformed OR highly self-serving ex-scientologists who like to make a name for themselves by name dropping a few celebs they once knew.
Seriously – you run the risk of finding yourself on the far right rather than just contemplating what *might* be workable and what is not workable for you.
For example: My beloved 12 year old dog now suffers from painful arthritis – she was limping this AM — I gave her a nerve assist — a few minutes later the limp was gone and we went for a nice walk. Is she CURED??? No but she feels better. Scientology is for use. You get to pick what you feel works for you …
Very funny Ulf and very true. DM wants to be THE interpreter who everyone listens to. Course he couldn’t describe his own soul or explain anything Scientology to anyone outside of his small club of mindless automatons. Hence he hides from the media like a child molester hides from the police.
Oliver Shaper told me he was an OT-8 but refused to tell me what his name is. That may explain your confusion.
To go from quantum mechanics to free will and consciousness is nonsense. Look up Quantum Quackery. Sorry Geir, but you have a lot more waking up to do. Hang out with real scientists in your country. There’s plenty of good ones. Listen to what they have to say.
Thanks Geir. Again, superb article “On Will”. What a nice gift from the land of Santa 🙂
Christine, nice post. You can also give your dog Joint Supplement by TRP. Its main active ingredient is glucosamine.
Ahh yes, but no comment on the “determinism” I see.
Geir, try to have your essay in a proper, peer-reviewed scientific journal that deals with issues of consciousness and see how far you get. That’s how science works. You don’t write papers to impress your friends. You write them to withstand scrutiny from the best people in the field. If none of them can discredit your work and give you a pass, then temporarily and only tentatively you have made a scientific advancement, until someone comes up with something better. Good luck.
Your whole life is not pre-determined. You can help your life’s success by making the right choices early on like going to college and learning science. (which very few Scientologists seem to do)
Most of life however is a combination of who you meet (usually by luck), what offers you propose, accept or refuse (like who you marry). Sometimes you do everything right and s*it happens. There’s a lot of randomness in life. The religious try to tell you otherwise as a way to control you. They tell you they have the answers, but they don’t.
Life is not this strange pre-determined spooky world.
Thanks Marty — I’ve been giving her K9 Glucosamine Liquid Health for awhile and it seems to work well. She gets herself *lame* by acting like a 2 year old chasing after one of my cats who gets too close to her food 🙂
I’m going to look into your recommend!!
BTW — sent you a hushmail a few days ago about a possible PC for you.
“In our family, there was no clear line between religion and fly fishing. We lived at the junction of great trout rivers in western Montana, and our father was a Presbyterian minister and a fly fisherman who tied his own flies and taught others. He told us about Christ’s disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman”. Norman Maclean.
Mike, You’re absolutely right. But because of the random and pointless nature of this new drive by at Casablanca, I would bet Miscavige called a meeting in the Hole and then told them something like this:
“I already told you what the handling is last year and all I get is PIE FACE, PIE FACE, PIE FACE, PIE FACE. At least when you SPs had Ralph Gomez and his fluffer John Allender you were doing something! Not that I’m saying bring back the perv’s. ‘Squirrel busters’?!? Who’s idea was that? Are you fucking out of your mind? Baby blue t-shirts for baby-brain Allender and side-kick Fatso? Did you know they are both perverts? And same for cougar-granny bar fly with the IQ of a door knob? Is that the best you guys can do? The entire Church and you find a bar fly, a fatty and a pervert? You guys have NO IDEA of proper PR or how to run ANYTHING. I ask for a handling and you give me three perverts with cameras on their head? Are you kidding me? I’m not. And I’m NOT telling you to bring back those wussies, I am telling you I WANT A GODDAMN HANDLING! It’s sick the way this place doesn nothing except fuck each other in the ass. Everyone of you lazy shit bitches should have been off-loaded and banned from the Bridge years ago. You bring NOTHING to the table, NOTHING. Why up you think, it’s this hard? Because: NO ORIGINATION! NO IDEAS! NOTHING! That’s why. And I better not hear from any of you until you and you and you and you and everyone in this room has done 200 hours on objectives, each. Don’t do anything until that is done. I didn’t say sleep, I I didn’t say eat. And do your post! Where is the new org board? Where is the new postings? But that doesn’t mean stay up all night. But there better be a handling as of tomorrow morning on all this non compliance of you guys or you are all going into the water. Not the lake, the septic pond. At 7 AM. You think I’m kidding? And I want a HANDLING, period before anyone secures. Did anyone sleep last night? No? Serves you right. You will NOT produce. Why is everyone so pale? You look like cadavers. You think it’s hard? It’s not. I have to say eat. I have to say sleep. Do I have to say breath? DO YOUR POST. If I see John Allender’s face on this everyone is going to the RPF’s RPF.”
Why wait until he comes back? The Sherriff could seek a warrant for his arrest, if he can be found. Who knows, with ubiquity of electronics, it is possible that he would be apprehended — especially since the Sherriff knows his car license number — and extradited back to Texas.
Steve — you are a medium: channeling Dear Leader. He is speaking to everyone through you….
Such a perfect duplication of literally dozens, if not hundreds, of meetings I have attended.
It is NOT an exaggeration or “over the top parody” — this could be another transcript that just hasnt made it out of the bunker yet.
On a past comment I made a joke that if these guys stopped following Marty, where would he get the cover for his next book. Seriously now, poor Ben thinking he might be that guy had to take off the way he did.
no lies here. But maybe you were never involved in the European scene very much.
If you don’t want these things discussed here, just let me know. But I believe that no true Scientologist gets scathed by viewing how OSA – the assumed solver of external problems – has created antagonism big time (using funds donated by Co$ public, of course). Hasn’t your blog featured such stupidities many times, from ‘squirrel busters’ to anonymous claims to law enforcement that Karen de la Carriere would sell babies ?
Here are just a few OSA related incidents from Germany :
An OSA spy ( later exposed ) became a member of the Ron’s Org / Freezone movement. He found out where they stored the OT materials. Afterwards a burglary occurred in that store area. Then Co$ lawyers used these materials for a copyright law suit against Ron’s Org.
Various vocal critics of Co$ have been attacked physically in Germany ( and also in the USA, according to some internet posts ). The perpetrators gave some hints that the attack is related to Co$ – but these hints were not sufficient as evidence for persecution. I do know this to be 100 % true. Because I was attacked myself in the same fashion.
Some German government people know about this and are very concerned. Violence against people who express a different opinion – that’s exactly who Hitler’s reign started. No wonder these government people try to do something against what they perceive as a totalitarian cult.
I know a number of people who had a sequence of burglaries after they had become too vocal about Co$. This includes myself. Sometimes things in my appartment were changed, sometimes objects were removed, in one case someone had copied data from my computer, obviously. Later I received anonymous emails with data from my computer.
I was living with a family when a burglar entered their home secretly. When he left he even left the door open. This was repeated a few days later – from then on I received emails containing snippets of our communication in that house. Apparently the burglar had installed a hidden microphone and transmitter.
Later a similar incident occurred at another place where I stayed often. No real private communication and no auditing confidentiality is possible once an appartment has ben bugged that way.
I could continue for many pages, including various kinds of crimes against Independent Scientologists ( Ron’s Org / Freezone and others ), critics and myself ( thus I do know these things are reality ).
To me, the involved OSA people are the 3rd party between the huge majority of decent Scientologists and the public. And these OSA operatives are not even successful – public opinion about LRH’s work is utterly low, no public acceptance in sight, no expansion but shrinking of Orgs, government gives a hard time to Scientologists etc.
That’s why I think this information fits this blog, Marty.
I don’t write papers for any of the two reasons you mention above 🙂
I write them because I like ti and because it helps me to sort my thoughts out.
If you have any specific objections to the article – other than general statements of “nonsense”, then I would be happy to hear them.
You do come across as overly emotional on this. Why?
Hana was not touchy-feely, for sure, but since I too did not know her well I would not characterize her beyond that.
I agree that Guy was personable and at least a bit caring. He showed me how to do domething once that helped keep me safe.
AnonOrange, if you truly believe that the only valid opinions about science are those which have been published in peer-reviewed journals, then why are you yapping about science *here* ?
Clearly we may ignore your opinions as they have not passed peer-review.
Michael A. Hobson
I suggest you look into “My Big Toe” (Theory of Everything) by Thomas Campbell. He is a Physicist who has a background in Metaphysics and has presented a very credible evolution from Quantum Mechanics to free will and Consciousness in his Trilogy of the same name. http://www.my-big-toe.com/ links you to audio and video presentations of this material.
Hmmm, perhaps the question on “determinism” un-answered is bordering on retar…er, “slow or limited in intellectual development…or academic progress” (Merriam-Webster’s Online, 11th Edition) ?
Or, Dark Matter forbid, you have self-stultified (caused to appear foolish)?
Anon Orange? Anon Orange? Knock knock? Anon Orange?
In MBT Campbell discusses free will, the failure of Einstein to arrive at a Unified Theory due to his point of view being in the MEST U. The MEST U being a subset of the larger Consciousness set could only reveal local rules and laws (Physics of the physical universe) that do not necessarily operate in the larger set of consciousness of which the PU is only a special case. LRH in his writings observed this phenomena and codified it in in the Factors and Axioms among other places in the Scientology Materials. Modern Physics is beginning to wake up to to these truths and that LRH presented this material over fifty years ago is a tribute to the man’s brilliance.
In MBT Campbell presents a theory that includes all phenomena that we experience such as esp, love, telekinesis, telepathy, as does Hubbard in his own way. In addition Campbell presents the purpose for us being here!
Post of the day material, right there.
Highly suspicious, given the utter lack of particulars (not even one name given e.g.)
Think hard on this one: WHO makes those choices you refer to?
Can you give me the full title and author of this MBT reference?
Well played, Marty, well played.
I see above you did proffer a response to the “determinism” question. Merci.
But there’s something I’m not quite following in your answer. Here’s the rub:
I refer you to Geir’s well-thought out and written article, and the idea of “determinism” (i.e., the physics idea of the entirety of life is determined by events at e.g., the Big Bang as “cause” and from then on to now, it’s just a sequence of effect, including you, your thoughts, your opinion, your oranginess). You ignore, or perhaps didn’t grasp, or Dark Matter forbid didn’t actually read the article, and in particular the very peer-reviewed authoritative, degree-ed, Mr. Hawking’s “complete and consistent” musing that if only we had all the laws of physics, we could know everything to happen, and what’s more, there’s sweet “f” all we can do about it, since it was determined at the Big Bang.
You then come back with it is “religious” people that say life is “pre-determined”, when that is “not true” (see Godel’s material), and I refer you to the very poetic East of Eden, where the character “Lee” remarks that the Old Testament enters in “free will”, i.e., CHOICE, as to one’s life. And that is just one religion. Hmmmm, that’s odd.
So, it would seem you have these two bodies of material switched about.
Please, Orange, clarify if you cou…er, would.
Sweet Fancy Moses!!! David Miscavige is posting via Thoughtful!!!
Geez Dave, thanks for comin’ over, openly, sort of. Channelling through Steve is pretty darn clever.
Yup, the only difference is the transcription secretaries would excise the obscenities and the ungrammatical bits (like “Why up you think, it’s this hard?”) which usually are more numerous.
I think it would be a good exercise for anyone reading this blog to imagine they had to write a compliance report to this order by 7 AM. And try to wade through orders telling to have it done by 7 AM but first to do 200 hours of objectives first, etc.
In all that conflicting gibberish, after word clearing the transcript, they would obviously decide on the safest route — get a new PI in front of Marty’s house overnight as that is at least “doing something,” according to DM. Then they would have all had to do some objectives on no sleep. Then tomorrow they would all get toasted for being squirrels and auditing without proper rest. This is what LRH meant when he was talking about reactivity and mob mentality.
Seconded. All we need is some more “peers” and I think this Orange fella is pretty much “reviewed”.
It was the Ron’s Org group in Munich where the infiltration and later burglary occurred, some 20 plus years ago. At that time Bernd Lübeck (target of multiple dead agenting efforts in the web) was the leader of Ron’ Org in that area. I assume he didn’t forget and could tell you even more. The harassment against Ron’s Orgs in Germany / Spain / Russia could fill a book ; or maybe someone will make a movie out of it some day.
The politicians were at federal level, however the names will mean nothing to you. Telling the names of my friends and others involved – even of some OSA people involved – would not prove a thing. You know that OSA operatives use to leave no evidence, when it comes to really illegal stuff.
I understand and agree that your major focus is on freeing beings. But if you are really interested I can send you a large write-up with actual names, documents and fotos about some illegal OSA actions here.
I agree with you about Dewolf he comes across as someone who would sellout his grandmother if had the chance. But I have to disagree about Hana Whitfield. I met her in 1985 (during the earlier Independent movement) she had incredible stories from her experiences working with LRH and being the captain of the Avon River. She came across as sincere and having a lot of integrity. She seemed to honestly just be connected to LRH during a time when he was exploring his new powers as the Commodore of the newly founded S.O. and perhaps was in an experimental stage of using some fairly dark methods to get the job done. I looked on Amazon she hasn’t authored any books, she does seem to be connected to a video called “Scientology the Ex Files.” I doubt she’s made a fortune from that. If she really embellished something about LRH I’d be really interested in knowing what that was.
My point Vicar wasn’t particularly to malign Hana or even Ron Jr. but to point out that taking either of them as gospel or building a case against LRH because of them, as examples, might be a poor idea.
Ron Jr. I feel was particularly dishonest because he sued or tried to sue for his father’s estate but at the same time saying that his father was a fraud and many other unpleasant things. I don’t believe he said he was planning to RETURN this fraudulent money to the various scientologists who bought service.
So — how do you on one hand say — “he is rotten and no good” and the other hand say — give ME his money?
Steve — absolutely spot on in every respect.
Contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I have an extra copy of Self Analysis, and it’s yours for the asking.
Best to you.
It probably shouldn’t be funny, but I still had to laugh out loud at the absurdity, no doubt truth within.
Your rejection of the greatest theoretical physicist currently alive for one: “Unfortunately, Weinberg’s argument suffers from the same logical fallacy as noted above. ”
Sentences such as: “Even so, if a subject observing an event exists separate from thephysical universe, this does not necessarily imply that it possesses free will.” are typical of the gobbledygook that pop physicists (without proper credentials) spew out in Walmart books. The stuff you state has no basis in real science. Try to publish it and you’ll see the response you get.
What’s next, you’re going to recommend the movie “What the bleep …”
Let me show you what I’m working on currently. It has nothing to do with Scientology, but I just want to make the point that you need to publish and be ready for criticism. I recently published two papers, which I have emailed to 140 top people in the field of election integrity. I have not received a single negative reply yet and so far the theory is holding up. If it gets discredited by enough people, then I’ll walk away and try something else. That’s how science works. Publish or perish.
Sorry for the derail the PI thread, which is very important. Maybe Marty will start a thread about science and how it compares to scientology.
I looked at the Big Toe website. This is NOT science. The guy is totally unpublished in the field of theoretical physics. He may have a physics degree, but that does not make him a scientist. The type of stuff he works on is the same that I work on: “expertise in large-system simulations, technology development and integration”
If you want science, go where the scientists are: The professional journals and the conferences. The $1 discount book bin at the Dollar Store is not where you learn science.
Oracle, some of the staff in those days were psychologists, or had been. Dianetics had people from all fields. They felt that Dianetics had answers and they were right. Doesn’t invalidate their earlier studies at all.
You are so spot on.
On this same line isn’t interesting to see that DM did NOT reissue LRH’s book “CHILD DIANETICS”. With the order to get rid off the old books there goes the technology how to deal with children.
A “brain” perhaps?
This is a suggestion that assists can alleviate pain. At this time there is no objective evidence for this; however, there is evidence linking meditation and pain relief. Not all unofficial claims of Scientology are easy to test, but this may be one. No medical claims from Scientology have been validated objectively at this time, in fact there are no official medical claims.
A good friend of mine, who was Scientologist, had a medical condition. For years he had assists, auditing, various “handling,” and registrars would even joke about him. Ultimately this was resolved with outpatient day surgery. Now this is one case, but current practiced medical procedures are based on a considerable body of evidence to demonstrates effectiveness.
I have read here that some Indies question the opposition to medical care in corporate Scientology. I’m in favor of medical care.
Please understand that I certainly am not suggesting you stop doing nerve assists or anything that you feel makes your life or the life of your family more comfortable.
When a coyote bumps the fence at Int, Marty hears his windows rattle in Texas. Poltergeists? No, just the PI’s getting restless in the driveway.
Refused to tell you his name!!! Wow, imagine that. Come to think of it, “Anon Orange”, that’s a funny name. I bet your parents had a laugh when they gave you that one. That is your name right?
In any case, Hana Whitfield is one voice among many. She experienced what she experienced and to the extent she speaks up truthfully about that, she becomes part of the multiple viewpoint system.
I don’t regard her as “the last word” on LRH or Scientology, anymore than I regard David Miscavige as the last word on LRH or Scientology.
Hans -Solo ( If you want to connect ask for my email with marthy )
I do recall this situation occuring The person was a spy from OSA pretending to take a course , and picking up material and trying to get a suit against copyright /
I am aware of many of OSA tactics that occurred with Rons Org whilst Capt Bill was alive / some witnessed by myself.
One example was Whilst visiting a dying patient in Malburg Hospital , OSA following us for 2 and half hrs
It was the middle of winter and you could say we were idiots driving around in snow ,
It was an uncomfortable experience for Myself and Bill Roberston though as we were often being followned we were use to the tactics
We went to visit a patient and some one that had done a lot within the free zone Indept’s any way while Bill visited the patient I stood watch outside due to suspecting this was again OSA.
I got distracted by a request from a nurse whether that had been intentionally I beleive so., Anyway I took my eye off the car park where the bike was parked,, I couldn’t view the surroundings very well , due to other cars parked. About 20mins later when we were ready to drive off we noticed the tires had be slashed, It was only later when police were checking cars and asking questions to us and we reporting what was done .The police officer said that there had been reports of dangerous driving sliding across the roads into the village and a cause of an accident, and they were searching people cars, and for two people. in connection to dangerous driving.
Lucky I was able to give a description, when this suspect OSA had park in the same lay by where we stopped for a coffee.He had not suspected we had him tailed. It was later reported to us along side our report that he had been from the Church of Scientology Frankfurt.with a car registered from Munich.We were interviewed if we knew this person, of which I said I knew of him working there
By the way our apartment was not far from the New Head Quarters of the Church of Scientology on Franfurter -strasse, opposite the Holiday INN..
Another was a good standing person formely having run a successfully franchise but left the church, was being questioned as a suspect to a murder enquiry.Myself having to try and protect my daugther who also was having to be interviewed due to her being a former nanny to the women. Again it lend back to the Church of Scientology, Myself having to answer what involement did I have with scientology, along side educationing the police on their tactics aswell what my conenction to the women was. These are just off the cuff. It went on for as long as Bill Robertson was alive regurely and known to me since his death.
Mike, you’re right on the money, as usual. My, how the mighty have fallen. I recently remembered one of Dear Leader’s high points, if it could be called that: his 10 Aug handling of the Gold Base. I will never forget the date because it was the same date as LRH’s PTS Handling HCOB: 10 August. LRH wrote it in 1973 and DM did his number on all of Gold in 1990. There was a freak storm that day, a torrential downpour that lasted for hours, as I recall. It loosed the hillside behind the property and mud came sliding across Highway 79. No one got hurt, no buildings were destroyed by the mudslide. Gold crew went out in their while summer uniforms: white shirts, white shorts, white knee socks and white shoes to deal with it. By dinner time they were a real mess. DM saw this as an opportunity to teach the base a lesson and after dinner he had the whole base assemble in MCI with Gold in front and he proceeded to give them a lambasting the likes of which I had never heard before or since. He was really in “top form,” spitting mad, screaming at the top of his lungs (but actually making “perfect sense,” which I thought remarkable, standing at the back with the rest of CMO Int, because a dramatizing psychotic will be unable to make sense when “full on” and a computing psychotic can only compute, but not at high volume. DM is both as near as I can tell.). I recall him screaming that “Someone could have been killed!” Not by that mudslide, Dave.
He used the storm as an excuse to enact draconian punishments on Gold such as lowered conditions until the end of time, close order drill at 6:00 a.m., etc. The usual nonsense. Of course it was all an act, based on the excuse that Gold had let the disaster happen. He needed an event to justify stomping on Gold’s neck (with everyone else there just to make the point) and the freak storm was it.
Nowadays he has a pile of money and a phone to order Linda Hamel to sic a PI on Marty. He is definitely on the downside of his career. Brother deserted him. Own father deserted him. Wife gone. Loved by no one. Feared by those in his immediate environment and ridiculed by everyone else. It’s a fine mess you’ve gotten yourself into, Dave.
Oh heres his linked in page:
And his facebook page
Great photos… The guy is a billboard for mwh phenomenon.
The reason for the historical dredging was to provide evidence, not proof, that the abuses in corporate Scientology existed in Ron’s time. I understand that Indies are not of the same mind with regards to this.
The question of workability is a separate issue. How one decides what works in a practical way should be addressed with objective evidence.
If you make religious claims of spiritual enlightenment then I accept I have no right challenging that. However, if there are practical claims of improved intellectual abilities, mathematical abilities, interpersonal relationship skills, or medical claims, then I can and should ask for objective evidence.
I’m not saying that no benefit ever occurs, or that people do not experience “wins,” but I am saying there is no evidence of systematic improvement, which is required to state that something “works” in a practical sense.
Or learn a bit of both sides in the process of transcending both?
I fail to see any actual rebuttal of content of the article – but rather mere dismissals on your part – and again rather emotionally loaded. Why so emotional about this?
Awesome rendition and duplication. So grateful for having space between the midget and us and now being able to see how all of his vulgar verbiage just comes down to offering an impossible game for others to play.
No wonder the game now is to “GET SHORTY”!
I read it daily as well. And sick degenerates surely make up a large percentage of the commenters based on the hate mongering that goes on. Not all days are the same, but a sick degenerate would not stand out over there. Thats the point.
CHECK OUR T THIS LINK TO THE ABOVE SCUM THAT MARTY MENTIONS: http://www.prowlerpi.com/
Per the motto: “FOLLOW THE MONEY” I’d agree that this is the hotter button that currently burns up the dwarf.
Sending out a new PI to Marty when all of the others only achieved contrary effects just follows the definition of Insanity – keep doing what is not working and expect a different effect.
Oh well, so PI’s on Mike Laws and Marty in the last two weeks are casual time?? I think they are looking for same one, maybe you know who?
Preaching to the choir, dude.
Can anyone say BAD CONTROL? “Do this, no, do this; why are you doing that? I told you to do this!” Also reminds me of the dirty needle drill.
That sounds good to me. If you predicate your willingness to assimilate Scientology Technology and Principals on whether or not LRH was a Saint or even spend a lot of time worrying about that, you will not avail yourself of a plethora of useful tools to help you navigate existence and better yourself. Kind of like finding out that Henry Ford had an out 2-D so you should never drive a car? The tech is the tech the man was the man.
I don’t think he likes children. They are not allowed on his premises.
You seem to think you are in a position to make a “critical evaluation” of Scientology, but you basically don’t know what you’re talking about. No “objective evidence” that assists reduce pain? Hogwash! The objective evidence is that lots and lots of people have experienced pain reduction from getting assists.
That doesn’t mean that an assist will always make paid totally disappear, especially if there is some ongoing medical condition continuously generating the pain.. If you’d actually studied Scientology you’d know that physical conditions are (1) predisposed, (2) precipitated, and (3) prolonged. The mind can have an effect on (1) and (3), but is not going to do away with medical causes in (2). That’s why LRH required medical exams and treatment of anyone who arrived at an org wanting to handle a physical health situation.
Assists help reduce pain, but don’t necessarily eliminate it. They also can help speed healing by increasing communication both spiritually and physically into the injured area. Occasionally miracles occur from assists, and occasionally they don’t help at all.
You remind me of the doctors who “tested” Vitamin C and “determined” that it can’t “cure” colds. They used a small fraction of the amount of Vitamin C recommended by Linus Pauling for treating colds, and they administered it in the middle of the cold rather than at the first symptoms as he instructed. They also did not make sure that other influences on the patient’s health were lined up in a positive way. Even at proper dosage and timeliness, Vitamin C is only one part of the whole picture. Doing many things properly really does work, but what the doctors did was doomed to failure from the beginning.
Similar idiotic “scientific research” (aka “professional posturing”) was done with Vitamin E and heart disease, and many other nutrients. Meanwhile, many drugs put out by pharmaceutical companies haven’t actually tested well for safety and effectiveness, and end up being used by doctors for other conditions than they were tested for anyway. The image of the medical profession as being “100% scientifically proven” is a PR smokescreen.
If one does everything right in Scientology he will increase his probability of having most of his life be much better from his own point of view. Doing just one thing right may or may not have much effect, because conditions can have multiple causes. So, taking Scientology “claims” out of context won’t work as any kind of test. Also, many Scientologists don’t really know what they’re doing, despite having certificates saying that they do. That’s especially the case with Church staff at this point.
If you really want to test Scientology, DO IT YOURSELF, under the guidance of an experienced Scientologist who really knows what he’s doing. That’s the only way you’ll know. Until you do that, you’re wasting a lot of time — yours and others’ — making comments that just miss the point time after time.
All i can say is OMG. Any one of you who retained their sanity or recovered it as the case may be deserve a VVWD. He runs torture chamber for Thetans.
Mike Rinder, Thoughtful, Dan Koon,
Thank you for the descriptive nature of the conduct of Miscavige.
both excellent comments TO
Hi K#1 🙂 Missed you of late.
Anon Orange, Tom Campbell deliberately chose not to publish his findings in physics journals since it is always a very slow process to break through the basic assumptions and beliefs of science. Like what happened to Einstein.
He decided instead to take the grass roots route, with the idea that it would result more quickly in science needing to take an actual open-minded look at his 30-some years of scientific research.
Nevertheless, here’s one physicist’s brief review of his book:
“Eureka! A Theory of Everything that actually lives up to its name! My Big TOE not only unifies physics, but unifies philosophy and theology as well. You will be amazed!” – Pamela Knight, Physicist
The above is one of quotes of independent test readers at a google site where you can read the whole book for free:
It’s a trilogy and very long, but he presents his model with lots of scientific support for it in a few hours of video’d lectures, which he has done all over the world. One of the best series I’ve watched is this one from a weekend seminar he did at the University of Calgary in Canada about a year ago:
p.s. Weinberg may be “the greatest theoretical physicist currently alive”, as you say, but consider this statement by Weinberg, quoted by Geir in his essay:
“The Copenhagen interpretation describes what happens when an observer makes a measurement, but the observer and the act of measurement are themselves treated classically. This is surely wrong: Physicists and their apparatus must be governed by the same quantum mechanical rules that govern everything else in the universe. But these rules are expressed in terms of a wavefunction (or, more precisely, a state vector) that evolves in a perfectly deterministic way.”
Geir correctly points out the logical fallacy when he follows that quote with: “His hidden assumption is quite visible when it starts with “This is surely wrong…” Weinberg’s argument is only true if the observer is in fact wholly within the domain of the laws governing quantum mechanics.”
And you may be suffering from the same assumption and logical fallacy where you said above, “To go from quantum mechanics to free will and consciousness is nonsense.”
I did mean this group to be independent Scientologists. I was reading the referenced chapter and observing that when the formula is applied to *a group* the formula is “FIND OUT WHAT YOU ARE” as compared to the formula for the individual which is “FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE”.
I’m not assigning any condition to anyone. You assign what ever you want but for christs sake ….get over the defensive posture. You are not under attack.
As regards the glib gibberish…..maybe so. I’ll give it another go. I think most folks who consider themselves ‘members’ of this group arrived here ‘after going through some level of confusion’ and working on up from there. To be here at all means that the step would have been completed. I find it interesting that as individuals we would have done so solving the ‘WHERE’ but as a group it is a ‘WHAT’ . And for this group the real ‘WHAT’ is a true whole track SP.
If it’s still glib and gibberish to you that is fine by me.
Subject again of child endangerment, soon after some kid died at Narconon.
Former president of Narconon speaks out about his rise and fall and the injustice he lived with under people who can not be trusted with justice:
AussieCase. I do not question the need at times for medical care. That is the field of my full advanced degree education. I do, however, question your ability to understand objective evidence. I have personally performed assists on broken bodies and removed all such pain. I have personally treated injured individuals in an Emergency Room to the point that with no drugs the patient had NO pain and could communicate such to me. Did I need to challenge that when I could personally see the person calmly lying in a hospital gurney awaiting radiology which demonstrated a broken bone shattered into more than a dozen pieces.
When two other physicians come and personally apologize to me for the severity of the injury when they had assumed that the patient was not severely injured.
Now to the facts. AussieCase, ALL pain – repeat ALL pain is subjective. There is no objective evidence of pain. If you studied neurology you would understand this. You have shown several indications of not understanding this situation. You want a “body of evidence to demonstrate effectiveness” which is quite different from “objective evidence.”
Please do not confuse the fact that some mis-quided people have created a false idea that auditing is there to handle a medical condition. Auditing handles a persons “case.” If that is part of the “medical condition” then it can change. If it is just “case” then their medical
condition (a condition of the physical body) shall continue.
Whether a person relates pain alleviation after an assist or after drugs is not the issue. You seem to want some type of “proof” that the patient is not telling a falsehood when they say there pain has been alleviated.
I suggest you learn to do an assist – do it – observe for yourself without the need for some “body of proof” and then you will know what works. Having brought people back to life after flat lining and seeing all instruments and alarms informing all of us int he ER what had just happened is all I need to know and see. I don’t need some other opinion or agreement as to what the result was. The patient personally thanking me after was good enough for me.
You will know all the evidence you need by your personal observation. Peer reviewed “proof” is BS. A written report is peer reviewed – NOT the actual outcome.
His own niece Jenna Miscavige deserted him too. His best executives and “go-to guys” like Marty and JB have left him too.
LOL – All the settings have changed since the first time we ALL looked at it. Muwahahahahahahahaha
Prompts didn’t bite.Marty. Guess he
just won’t budge on this one.(WHO?)
the e-meter/TR exchange is the R-factor to get his toe “testing” the water? (Just kidding, of course! We know there is really a separate agenda for posting here. Right AO?)
Marty, it appears that you are up against
an impermeable mem”brain” in this case.
I think the point is that some folks on THIS blog have not learned anything about their experiences. Calling an entire group who want the abuse to stop “sick degenerates” — all while striving for spiritual and personal progress — is a disappointing approach.
Thanks for your data. It is noteworthy that all this came frome an organization that uses to demand “religious tolerance” ( while secretly attacking those who have somewhat different beliefs ). If that’s not bigotry, what else is …
Also remarkable : despite of the huuuuge amount of hours and money that OSA / G.O. put into harassing their perceived enemies and “squirrels” … most of them still exist. AND it got the church a lousy reputation and some real losses.
The harassing of Christians in the Roman Empire did not make them disappear, the harassment of sunnites by shiites and vice versa in current Iraq doesn’t make any of their movements disappear, and the persecution of Jews by the Nazis didn’t get rid of all Jews, but contributed to he rise of Israel ( which became a strong power, influencing even western politics ).
My conclusion : one can give a hard time to individuals, yes – but to extinguish a vital movement seems to be virtually impossible.
Ben Herndon, at the behest of one David Miscavige, appears to be endangering little children – and their pets. . .
David Miscavige doesn’t care if a child gets run over and killed while he, David Miscavige, tries to stifle his critics. . . It seems to be all business when it comes to one David Miscavige. Rape, and rapture, is what I think David Miscavige is all about, give David Miscavige ANYTHING that smells of more money; and you can really get that little monkey, D.M., to
put aside all sense of decency. . .
Consider that little girl lucky.
More cars Davey, more cars. Continue to show us what an unbridled lunatic you have become.
Y’ know, I wonder how T.C. would have reacted if that was Suri in the street? . . .
au contraire. First, a lot has been learned, particularly about being reasonable when faced with degenerate attacks. And Marty never said all the Village Voice posters were sick degenerates as you allege. He said such posters thrive in that and other forums. But not here. Sorry Chris/Sheryl/….
I have a question and it may seem off topic but it does regard children. When a woman is forced to leave Sea.Org and her husband disconnects, has there ever been anyone who has gone to court for payments from the father of that child, OR is the disconnection and all it entails SO BAD that the mother is just glad to be gone. I would love an answer if someone knows. Thanks for your time.
Meant to say if a woman BECOMES pregnant and is forced to leave.
I’m not claiming to understand neurology, and yes it is more accurate to state that it is the for a body of evidence to demonstrate effectiveness that I’m looking for, specifically a scientific body of evidence indicating this has been studied and replicated.
Peer review scientific journals to not constitute proof, they constitute evidence. Sometimes the data is given, often just the details of what was done is written, and others can attempt to replicate, discuss, dispute and so forth. This is the point, a scientific study is done, results are presented, other scientists can question why, how, and attempt to replicate the result. Over time results that can be replicated draw more attention and become accepted. No model or procedure is beyond question, and though this process of questioning, double checking, doubting, studying and testing, the body of knowledge moves forward.
I’m not disputing that an assist may alleviate pain, and I’m certainly not disputing your observations. I am stating that I can find no standard scientific body of evidence to demonstrate effectiveness. I’m also pointing out that it has become popular for scientists to study the effects of meditation, and there are, at least the beginnings of, a scientific body of evidence to demonstrate effectiveness. This has not been done with the touch assist or any Scientology procedure.
Reblogged this on 31 Factors.
AussieCase – Thanks for the response. I do not believe you will ever see what you desire. Unless there is money to be made by the powers that be, then no “scientific research” occurs. I believe we are starting to see things such as meditation, nutrition, etc only because hospitals and clinics are working to monetize this. Without some semblance of “evidence” then no insurance or government funding will follow.
My opinion is the proper viewpoint is whether or not YOU have found it to be workable. I use much in the way of alternative medicine, and in that field too, there is a dearth of “peer reviewed” documentation.
A case study is not considered “evidence”. That is a detailed analysis of an observation. It is only valid for further research. If we did a touch assist on 20 people and 17 had marked improvement this would only be considered valid for making some type of hypothesis and then determining how to prove or disprove. Results are not the determination used.
The way peer reviewed research is done today is like finding as fact that the world was really flat until somebody could prove it was round. It was actually round the entire time. Science accepts as “evidence” only that which it can measure and quantify. Feelings, sensations, etc are subjective and not in the same realm of research. I know many good researchers that only privately publish. As their findings are so different from the accepted norm an honest evaluation of their data is held to a different standard.
As a closing on this subject. If we are to consider that the basic spiritual being is not of the physical universe – then how would you go about doing research to prove it. Therefore how would be prove how the spirit interacted with the body to restore health after auditing. Now we are into the quantum realm of science and that is rife with misunderstandings and disagreements. All proof found would be only in the eyes of the person receiving the auditing. You cannot actually see what my thought is – you may “feel” some sense of it but that is not measurable.
Some things we can observe and measure and just accept without understanding. Gravity is an example.
Sounds like a little word clearing might be in order.
It seems to be a matter of how many PI’s and Investigative
companys does D.M. employ ? Is this just one in a Global
apparatus with hundreds of private Investigative firms employing
thousands of spys who’s job is to watch Scientologys Church going
public and report to D.M. All outside the Church and paid by the IAS which is unaccountable by anyone in the C of S, D.M.s piggy bank at his becon call
Breaths life into new James Bond movie scripts.
When the whole truth becomes known , my God.
Keep on Marty, you have an high purpose.
I have an idea / a guess why they have become interested in you. About a week ago there was a report on German tv dealing with the death of Co$ Scientologist and OT 7 or 8, Biggi Reichert.
Maybe someone from the Office of Smug Asses considered you connected with that PR flap. And felt the need to “handle” ( and did not realize that handling was “too little too late” ).
Scientific method is a very useful tool that has definitely benefited the world. But, let’s face it, as we go through life we all learn a lot about what works and doesn’t work to handle different situations, and we don’t use full-blown scientific method to do that. There are other ways of knowing that are valid.
The problem with scientific method is that it’s SLOW, while human lifetimes are SHORT. LRH didn’t have time to get the agreement of the “scientific community” with regard to the mind and spirit, and what “scientific community” there was for it at that time was working in unproductive or outright harmful directions anyway.
In 1951 LRH actually did extensive before and after testing of preclears, using the psychology profession’s own standard Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Analysis. This test showed remarkable improvement in preclears after a relatively small amount of auditing. In 1969, I took the report of these results to every member of the Psychology Department at the University of California at Berkeley, and not a single one of them was interested in looking at it. I then met with the head of the department and asked him why that was. He told me that all those professors were interested only in their own research, which was necessary for their professional advancement.
The best description of LRH’s role is the one he used in Keeping Scientology Working. He called himself a GUIDE. The American pioneers who crossed 1500 miles of unkown, dangerous territory to reach California and Oregon needed trail guides to avoid hostile Indians and get through the mountains before winter set in and they starved to death. Their trail guides weren’t scientific researchers. They were brave, resourceful men who went into action and found out by trial, error, and intuition what worked and didn’t work to accomplish their purpose. We all do the same thing to a greater or lesser degree in various aspects of our lives, and it’s a perfectly valid method of knowing.
That’s what LRH did. He was a trail guide. In his own research he did use elements of the scientific method, but in very abbreviated form, because he was trying to get something done very fast while he still could.
Now, you have to decide why you have your attention on Scientology in the first place. Is it idle intellectual curiosity on your part, in which you make some kind of critical analysis for the sake of proving how good you are at academic-style critical analysis? Or are you trying to find out whether or not Scientology works, so you can use it to improve your own life or the life of someone you care about? If it’s the former, you’re wasting everyone’s time here. If it’s the latter, what you need to do is actually take your first Scientology course. If that turns out to be the traditional Communication Course with TRs Remodernized 0-4, you should get a very positive result. And, if you don’t get good results, you’ll know it’s not for you.
In supervising students on the Communication Course, I found that 80% got wonderfully positive results, realized that Scientology was the real deal, and enrolled on their next course. All of that 80% continued to be happy with the results of their Scientology courses and the auditing they delivered and received (at least until the Church changed due to Miscavige’s mismanagement, after which no one with common sense was happy with the service they were getting from it). About 20% of my Communication Course students did poorly, and either didn’t finish the course, or weren’t impressed enough to take the next course.
I don’t know which group you’d be in if you gave it a try. But I do know that DOING IT is the only way you’ll ever know. If you’re afraid to expose yourself to our techniques by doing this course, or can’t comprehend and see the wisdom in what several people have been trying to tell you in this thread, then you’d probably be in the 20% anyway, and your best bet would be to find something else to do.
Just on the subject of how one might test touch assists. Couldn’t one do similar to how they tested accupuncuture, two groups of people with similar aches and pains, I believe back pain is popular, one group received accupunture performed according to the way it’s meant to be done. The other group received the same overall experience except the needles were applied “randomly” or contrary to what accupuncture teaches. Would it be feasable to do the same with touch assists?
Also with touch assist I recall listening to L Ron Hubbard lecturing on the subject and him saying that the correct technique was to only ask “can you feel my finger?” Until the subject responded to the touch without prompt. Something about not making the engram worse. Do I recall correctly? I ask because a local org member showed me their manual and it just said to keep asking at least as far as that instructuon went, no mention of stopping the prompt. I recall the lecture was aptly called “assists” and was part of a series.
A good demonstration for those sitting on the fence of what it’s like making the big jump out of the trap. It has a happy ending.
I see your point. I would have stated clearly, from my point of view, 46% are indulging in sadism. That is, gleaning pleasure from the misery of others. 24% are on a continuous itsa as they have not been acknowledged. 15% seeking sensation of social shock. 10% are performers seeking applause. 5% seeking to be informed and exchange views. A more scientific approach. Roughly 95% with the purpose to stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I do not see the entire group wanting abuse to stop. As the majority of comments are abusive.
I was a contributor there until a single mother with three children to support, was fair gamed for singing aboard the Freewinds. Not once, but twice. Is Tony providing for her kids today? I wonder, who is providing for those children today? All of the caring commentors who want the abuse to stop? This was child endangerment in the most covert form. Not “personal progress”.
Let me help you with that:
18 artists fairgamed for going to a party and not knowing about a staff member on board who did not want to be there:
Let me see, 18 people fairgamed and probable damage to their careers so the abuse can stop?
I think a little math clearing might be in order.
Death threats are a criminal offense in the U.S.. I can’t be bonded and insured to work right now because someone accused me on the internet of issuing a death threat to someone. That is how serious this is in the U.S.. Until I resolve the matter legally, and I had to go to another country to sort it out, I am excluded from my work place as I can not obtain bonding and insurance. This is not taken lightly in the U.S. either.
Easy to be hard, right?
clap clap clap clap ! 🙂
OMG that is soo perfect.
Now Sheryl, You go to this link, and see how many Village Voice commentors asked for the abuse to stop, as Tony Fair Gamed a single mother with three children to support. Who was just facing her big “break” into success:
I would prefer to base what I understand on the scientific method–acknowledging what we do and do not know, discussing, debating and testing what we can to learn more of this world.
Now I would describe what we can test debate and find evidence for as science, and what we cannot as opinion. I’m more or less going with Hippocrates.
There are things people can measure test and explore. For example, there are studies comparing happiness between religious and nonreligious people, and I understand that the evidence indicates religious people are measurably happier–I am not a practicing member of an organized religion.
I am not here to stamp out religion, dispute, or argue the existence of a spirit. I am stating that the claim that touch assists ease pain is scientifically testable regardless of whether or not one accepts having a spiritual nature.
For the record, I asked for the abuse to stop. And my comment was deleted from the blog.
“which very few Scientologists seem to do)”
That’s a generality that’s intended as a criticism. I, for one, went to college and studied science and currently work as engineer. I know many others who did too and have bachelor and master degrees. You seem to have an overly naive and simplistic view of who’s attracted to Scientology, probably because you never were a Scientologist and don’t know very many.
Thanks Tony. Perfecto!!!!!!!
This is a little off topic,but I just got this piece of insanity-Is it only ditzy,gleeful women that get chosen to do their fundraising?
Incredibly good response and wonderfully told too!
That was a beaut Paul!
As I mentioned, I was involved in Scientology.
I was involved the late 80s and early 90’s. When I left I put it out of my mind and went about my life. I went to university studied science and so forth.
About a month ago, the topic of Katie Holmes divorce came up and I was asked what I thought. It occurred to me that I had no idea what was up with Scientology recently. Someone who was never involved knew about defections that I had not heard about. I simply had not thought about it in years.
I started to read again, and I asked myself why was I so captivated when I was young? People say it works. Personally, I do not think so, and frankly it didn’t work very well for me then.
I admit I made friends, and I had some fun times. I saw an underside in Clearwater, through the eyes of the young sea org. The stories of neglect of young children in corporate Scientology do strike a chord.
My thinking has changed since I was involved.
For example you ask me: Which group would I be in? 80%, 20%, 2.5%
You were polite enough to not say 2.5%.
Where do these numbers come from? Really, how did Ron study this and come up with this figures? Even if they are rough figures. How does one come up with that? 20% PTS, 2.5% suppressive/psychotic?
Why isn’t it 10% PTS and 1% suppressive?
Then all illness is attributed, at least to some extent, to a PTS condition. You simply need one virus or bacterial infection that is treated without a PTS handling to refute that. Many children, when I was young, used to have the mumps once in their life, nothing else would change the mumps would pass and they would never get it again.
That is my two-cents. There were some really good people involved in Scientology, and it seems to me there are some really decent Indies. I’m not just being polite; I saw an old friend in Hardeep’s video.
I have these questions, and I admit that I am hesitant to post them.
I wish you all well.
Used to be training auditors and delivering Dianetics and Scientology to
Clear public. Now its bowling to pay the rent and keep the lights on.
Nobody else will do it. 🙂
What a bunch of dorks..
One of them is Mary Elizabeth Glossup. ( the one on the left with dark hair) She runs sliver shows into Sams Club so she has money so I guess she can gleefully regg others. Boy if those aren’t the phoniest tone levels I’ve seen in awhile.
Boy, that looks so FUN!!!!!! (said in glee of insanity)
Now I remember why I resigned.
Stacy Francis’ problem was that she was caught out lying thanks to her featuring in the leaked video of the Birthday bash David Miscavige arranged for Tom Cruise. She’d said she’d not worked in the business for a long time and there she was on stage apparently working not so long ago at quite an exclusive event.
Unfortunately for her this brought her under the spot light and more questions were asked about the validity of her back story and other inconsistencies came out.
There was a debate in the VV blog comments and a number of people did say it was wrong to pick on her. Notable comments by “Delores789′ and ‘DanLocke’. No idea why your comments were removed when others remain suggesting people should “move along” it’s just Hollywood spin.
If you’re a celebrity and you’re caught out lying to your public there’s going to be consequences. That’s totally different to the Co$ fairgame tactics of lying to, suing, harassing, tricking and spreading lies about the subject.
People are caught out lying all the time and the consequences for celebrities is scandal. The Stacy affair was no different just because she was caught out by her association with the church of scientology.
Her other problem was that she just wasn’t that good. A video was leaked in the UK of Tulisa, an X-Factor UK judge and lead singer of a band, now a solo artist, giving a guy a blow job. She cried in her bathroom for a few days and apologised to all her fans who supported her BTW; the guy who received the BJ and leaked the video received death threats. It doesn’t seem to have affected her career. I don’t think the stacy scandal really affected the outcome for stacy either.
Sad but….. puts me in mind of this:
I said 20% did poorly on the Comm Course I supervised, because that’s the exact actual percentage that actually did do poorly. The fact that it matched the 20% LRH talked about was indeed interesting. But 20% is what actually happened.
I personally do not believe ALL illness is caused by PTSness, despite the fact that LRH said it is. Remember, he also said to send sick people to doctors. The body is a physical machine that can malfunction due to damage, either from gross injury, infection, or the abuse of giving it the wrong food, water, air,etc. I have no doubt that LRH’s overweight and smoking caused his body to die years before it would have otherwise. And, no matter what is done, all physical bodies die eventually. I also know that the spirit can have an enormous effect, positive or negative, on physical health. I think illness comes from a combination of physical, mental, and spiritual factors.
But you seem to have some need to keep bringing up every outpoint you can think of regarding LRH and Scientology. If you DID try Scientology and it didn’t work for you, one of two things was the cause — either what you got wasn’t standard tech, or you were PTS or SP. Unfortunately for you, Miscavige was in charge and the tech had been corrupted before you got in. So, the probability is high that you received out tech. On the issue of you being PTS or SP, I’ll let you be the judge. I honestly don’t know.
Here’s my advice to you, now that I know that you DID try actually DOING Scientology. Find a good Independent Scientology auditor to clean up whatever out-tech he or she determines that you received. Then, if you’re still unhappy with the results, we’ll know for sure that Scientology isn’t for you. We won’t need to determine why that is. Just eliminate the possibility of out tech, before you throw the baby out with the bathwater.
AusieCase – No problem here with your questions. Remember to keep in mind the stable datum that what is true is what you find to be true. Not what I find. Your experience, your observation, that is what you should look at.
The figures were probably what was observed by LRH to be true. With the state of the world today there are probably areas that are 40% PTS and 5+ % SP. The exact number is not what is important. The fact that beings with evil intentions, being spread into their immediate sphere of influence, affect a number of people to become effect is what is important.
I believe all are basically good – including you. If you didn’t have similar gains to mine does not make you bad. Science has done a lot of good things but science, and in the name of science, has also been used to force a change in the lives of many. This change has not always been for the betterment of all concerned.
Please continue your journey in life – but try and act on what you find to be true. Peer review does not make something true – it merely makes it agreed upon by others.
As to why you got involved in Scientology in the first place – probably looking for answers to some of the inner questions you had. The fact that you wanted answers to make things better is indicative of your inherent goodness. I would venture to say, it is also indicative of the fact that you had questions which have as yet not been answered to your satisfaction. Continue – life is a journey, not a destination.
Good to see the glint in the tiger’s eye,Tony!!
I’m also am in favour of not smoking and taking care of one’s health.
There is a third option. Hubbard was not justified is claiming his ideas always work. In fact, based on my reading and looking into this, the preponderance of evidence points to this one.
I will refrain from pointing out more specific “outpoints.”
Thank you for responding to my comments.
I agree, peer review is not proof, and that it is agreement, but do not dismiss it as “reactive mind agreement.”
It means people who have the experience and expertise to do so, accept evidence presented as valid and do not dispute the conclusions. It indicates that a level of somewhat objective and external scrutiny has occurred.
I reckon these 80/20 rules of thumb are popular and LRH was likely using one in the PTS article. I have several disagreements with the PTS/SP concepts presented by Ron. My main point here is that one has the right to question, to ask, to disagree and to doubt what Ron said. It is this sort of scrutiny that exists in the scientific method, and the peer-reviewed literature, that I’m encouraging.
I agree life is an interesting journey, but perhaps, as in science, we have to admit we do not have all the answers, and having questions is a good thing.
In my experience, my Doubting Thomas nature, was temporally derailed, when I was younger and involved in Scientology, and I’m happy to have it back.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments.
Hmmmm. I was leaving Houston last week and encountered Warlick at the airport. Think this fool was probably near by ?
“If you DID try Scientology and it didn’t work for you, one of two things was the cause — either what you got wasn’t standard tech, or you were PTS or SP.”
Two-valued logic is a violation of Logic 6. Just sayin’.
Yes, it could be both at the same time, with various percentages of the one or the other. Out tech on a PTS person won’t get a good result. The handling is still the same. Clean up what was done non-standardly, before deciding that the tech doesn’t work.
My point is that your premises reject the possibility of other truth values. It’s just one or the other, or a degree in between (a la fuzzy logic). You do not seem open to the possibility that Scientology may not work for everyone, even if delivered “standardly” (another unobtainable absolute) to a PTS-free “social personality” (and another!)
All I can say is that I’ve been in Scientology for 44 years, given and received a lot of auditing, and seen tons more given and received by others. In my experience, when applied properly, the tech works. Every instance of the tech “not working” that I ever saw was easily traceable to some misapplication. And, unfortunately, there was a great deal of misapplication the whole 44 years, not just the last 25 or so under Miscavige.
But let’s look more closely at the word “works.” My reality is that most conditions in life have multiple causes. Therefore handling just one cause may or may not “cure” a condition. But if a pc gets a lot of GOOD audting, over time most of his unwanted conditions will improve markedly. Some may need to be addressed again and again at different levels of the Grade Chart, reducing more and more at each level.
For all the readers of this blog who didn’t get what they wanted out of their Scientology auditing, and have been wondering whether or not “Scientology really works,” I say, you probably got out tech. Just go to a competent Indpendent Scientology auditor and get cleaned up. Until then, regarding the debate on the issue here, some words of wisdom from an old friend of mine from my early days in Scientology: “Logic is no match for bypassed charge.”
Heh, yeah I hear you. I’m not disagreeing with your observations or recommendations btw, only your absolutistic (and fallacious) conclusion that “Scientology works 100% of the time”. This, per Hubbardian Logic, is impossible. Approachable, yes, but unobtainable nonetheless. If you subscribe to Infinity-valued Logic then you’ll appreciate why this argument is invalid. Peace.
If you read my various comments you’ll see that my viewpoint is not that Scientology works 100% of the time as that applies to individual processes. What does work 100% of the time is confronting what one has created, and lookingness bringing about as-isness of previous alter-isness and not-isness. Exactly what one will get from each individual process is hard to predict. But if one gets run on enough processes, with correct C/Sing and basic auditing in, the cumulative effect will be very, very positive. That’s what “the tech works” means to me. And I do recognize that there’s more research to be done. GPMs anyone?
p.p.s. Here you can watch just 10 minutes of an interview with Tom Campbell, where he specifically talks about why it is so difficult to break out of the “belief traps” of science – and of human existence in general. He explains how it happened that he himself was able to do so, and to discover that the “bigger reality” has its own “science” or its own logic (which you will probably be happy to know, just as I was :)). Go to about 31:00 and listen to 10-15 minutes.