Is History Repeating Itself?

Reference:    The Scientology Reformation: What Every Scientologist Should Know

Preview III:

Chapter Two

Is history repeating itself?

 Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.                                                                                -George Santayana

One of L. Ron Hubbard’s favorite sources for history study was Will Durant, and his several encyclopedic volumes, The Story of Civilization. Ron mentions Durant in many of his lectures and books. He even dedicated his book Science of Survival to Durant, along with 22 other philosophers and thinkers. I am reading that from my 1951 first-edition copy of Science of Survival at this moment, and there it is, right under “Credit in particular is due to:”. Will Durant is right up there along with Socrates, Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and a number of other historical giants. Now, that brings us to our first invitation to inspect. Inspect your “Golden Age of Knowledge” edition of Science of Survival. Do you see Durant’s name on the dedication page? Do you see the name of any of the people L. Ron Hubbard originally said were due particular credit?

Since LRH felt so indebted to the 23 men he acknowledged for their help in formulating the truths of Dianetics and Scientology, I took it upon myself to read much of Durant’s history, in an effort to learn about them. Doing so gave me a much deeper appreciation and understanding of the technologies Ron developed.

In reading Durant’s historical work, I was also struck by parallels between humankind’s history and the history of the Scientology movement. Some of the most profound of these similarities appeared in the events which took place during the era of the Protestant Reformation. The Reformation occurred during the 16th century, when the 1,500-year monopoly on the Christian religion was busted. Beginning some time after the death of Jesus Christ and continuing until 1517, there was only one significant Christian church: what is now known as the Catholic Church. Over those many centuries the Catholic Church became all-rich, all-powerful, and also quite political and ruthless in guarding its worldly wealth. In the process it also became, by definition, the antithesis of what Jesus Christ stood for. Such principles, for example, as “the meek shall inherit the earth” and “the chance of a rich man entering the Kingdom of God is less than that of a camel passing through the eye of a needle.”

Reading that history reminded me of something LRH had said in a series of lectures he considered – to the day he died – to be the most complete and accurate dissertation on the subject of OT (Operating Thetan, the highest level of spiritual attainment in Scientology): The Philadelphia Doctorate Course, or PDC.

Let’s take the subject of Scientology and let’s see if there’s any logic involved with it at all. There isn’t a mathematics that can embrace the subject of Scientology, because it is an invented mathematics. It’s an invented mathematics that accepts gradient scales and “absolutes are unattainable.” And it is a method of thinking about things. And it is just as true as it is workable. And no truer. And is not, in itself, an arbitrary, fascistic police force to make sure that we all think right thoughts. It’s a servant of the mind, and servo-mechanism of the mind. It is not a master of the mind. Scientology will decline and become useless to man on the day when it becomes the master of thinking. Don’t think it won’t do that. It has every capability of doing that.

Contained in the knowable, workable portions before your eyes there are methods of controlling human beings and thetans (spiritual beings) which have never before been dreamed of in this universe. Control mechanisms of such awesome and solid proportions that if the remedies were not so much easier to apply, one would be appalled at the dangerousness to beingness that exists in Scientology.

Fortunately, it was intelligently invented, and I say that without any possible bow; I say that because part of its logic was: the remedy should exist before the bullet.

So anybody that knows the remedy of this subject, anybody that knows these techniques, is himself actually under a certain responsibility – that’s to make sure that he doesn’t remain a sole proprietor. That’s all it takes, just don’t remain a sole proprietor. Don’t ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It’s not safe. It’s not safe for Man; it’s not safe for this universe. This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we’ve got some new ways to make slaves here. Let’s see that none are made.

L. Ron Hubbard

Formative States of Scientology – Definition of Logic

It made me think that perhaps Ron was thinking of that very history of the Christian religion and the Protestant Reformation, which clearly he had read about in Durant’s books. After all, the medieval Catholic Church had made reading the bible illegal. It used the promise of salvation as a tool to enslave. It tortured and killed those who dared to disagree, or had the temerity to inspect for themselves. And after 15 centuries of escalating abuse and control, the only thing that worked to reverse that state of affairs was the busting of the monopoly. The Protestant Reformation was in essence just that –  a break up of the monopoly on Christianity. Its two critical aspects were (a) freeing the material of Christianity to everyone through translation, publication and wide distribution of the Holy Bible, and the consequent recognition that people did not need a vicious, bureaucratic and corrupt institution between them and God, and (b) the formation of hundreds of Christian churches, based on the principles contained in Christ’s teachings…

Read the rest, obtain your copy at, The Scientology Reformation.

164 responses to “Is History Repeating Itself?

  1. Pingback: Is History Repeating Itself? | Martyrathbun09's Blog

  2. The world truly is speeding up. What it took Christians 1500 years to do, we did in 60.

  3. Ordered my copies today on Amazon…

  4. Thank you and please keep ’em comin’, Marty!

  5. My 1978 copy has all of the original acknowledgments.
    It also says, on the prior page, “Dedicated to Diana Hubbard.”

    The dedication to Diana is missing from miscavige’s edition of the book.

    Fortunately, nearly every single tape, book, policy or bulletin has been made freely available to anyone via the internet for more than twenty years. A large number of individuals over the past 30 years have been spreading the tech for free…far and wide.

    The only “monopoly” is a figment of the imagination of a handful of miscavige’s captives who have bought into their new miscavpolicy…”DON’T LOOK”

    That policy seems to have been augmented lately to, “DON’T LOOK, DON’T LISTEN AND SHUT UP OR WE’LL DECLARE YOUR FRIGGN ASS.”

    Yep, you are either with LRH or you are with david. Ain’t no middle ground.

  6. Just ordered mine!

  7. the-truth-hurts

    This is an excerpt from the letter from Sara Northup to Paulette Cooper:
    Mar 20, 1972

    Dear Paulette,

    Thank you for sending the photostat of the column concerning Ron.

    I really think he is a terribly destructive man – and mad as a hatter.

    Last fall a couple of men came here to my home on Maui (Hawaii). They looked like undertakers’ assistants. They were very pale – wore cheap black suits, white shirts, dark ties.

    They told me they were “agents”, but they wouldn’t tell me what, or who, they were agents for. They wouldn’t show me any identification. They had a long list of personal questions to ask me and they had a “warning” to give me. They told me that people posing as reporters might try to get me to talk about Ron but I would be in trouble if I said anything at all to them.

    They wanted to come in the house but I wouldn’t let them. I told them I wouldn’t speak with them unless they came with identification. They said they’d “check with headquarters and be back this evening”. I never saw them again.

    My older daughter [Alexis Valerie] (who is Ron’s daughter) was home over the holidays. When she arrived back at college there was a man who had been waiting for her in the local inn. He had been there 3 or 4 days.

    She asked him to come to her Dorm to talk with him. He told her he was Ron’s agent. He had several typewritten pages of “statements” to read her. It had obviously been written by Ron.

    It said to her that she was illegitimate – that I was a “street-walker” he had hired as a combination housekeeper-secretary. He said that he fired me and that I came back to his doorstep “destitute and pregnant” and that out of his great heart he had taken me in to see me “through my trouble”.

    He said that when Alexy was a “Toddler” she was a cute little thing so he took her and a cat, “Motor Boat”, along on his wanderings “as pets” for 2 years.

    [Alexy was 15 months old when we were divorced]

    He also said that during World War II I was a Nazi spy. (He used to tell people that I was a Communist spy who received orders from Moscow by telepathic control). I don’t know why he had me change sides.

    He said that I had been “used by those in control to discredit Mr. Hubbard.” He said he forgave me but it made him very sad.

    The paper was signed, “Your good friend, J. Edgar Hoover”. The agent told Alexy he was an F.B.I. agent. He would not allow her to inspect it – would only read it to her. At the end he asked her if she had any questions.

    She was both angry and shocked that Ron could do such a thing. She told him – “the agent” – it was self-explanatory and asked him to leave. She has had a feeling that her father was a rather romantic figure. These paranoid ravings were frightening to her. She had not realized how sick he was before this incident.

    I was furious that he would try to hurt Alexy…

    I hope that when you win your court case, as you must, that you collect court costs and reparations.

    His sickness is not just destructive, it is also contagious. I hate to think how many weak people have been harmed by this man.

    The day of my divorce from Ron was like a day of rebirth for me. I feel that Alexy and I escaped from a death-in-life situation.

    I am really afraid of him. He has such control over his people – and so many of them – that even from England he could do something to hurt Alexy. You have no idea the lengths to which he can go (or, maybe you do?).

    These visits from his “agents” are just warnings. The two who came to see me told me as much. It is really frightening not knowing what he might do next…

    I’m sorry that I never met you. Please do write and tell me what happens with your case. Ron has the advantage of money – but you have rationality on your side. Surely that must be more important.


    (Nine months later, the bomb threat frame-up of Paulette Cooper was initiated).

    Somehow, I doubt that any of this will qualify as information that “every Scientologist should know.”

  8. The Philadelphia Doctorate Course
    “The most complete and accurate dissertation on the subject of OT”

    Yes, yes yes!!!……. So many wins on this course-I considered it to be the crowning jewel in my Scientology training line-up. I often went home after course just shaking in my skin because I was so exhilarated over the knowledged I had just gained. Often I wouldn’t sleep well those nights, but I didn’t care because the exhilaration and happiness carried right over into the next day.

    The PDC…pure genius and a remarkable gift to mankind. I will forever ( and I do mean forever ) be grateful for the knowledge.

  9. Christianity 1500 years. Islam, still working on it. Scientology — looks like a shorter comm lag.

  10. I salute you Marty!
    That was pure genius! Linking all of that together was a work of art.
    I believe that each person has his or her own purpose and your purpose is shining through. It takes a person with a lot of different qualities to do what you do; toughness, courage, intelligence, humor, dedication, ethics, bull headedness…, and the right experiencial track. You were in the right place at the right time I guess…
    I know you don’t owe it to anyone to do this, but I am sure glad that you took it upon yourself to do it.
    Thanks Man!!

  11. And not as many died either.

  12. Hi Marty,
    I’ve been waiting for this moment for a long time. It’s been painfull watching this monster in the making for over 25 years, never able to connect all the dots by myself, until recently, when you and Steve Hall came out, and identified the Who, the What and the Why for all to see.

    I’m for ever indebted to both of you.

    This Black Scientology nightmare should be a lesson to all of us, that once the monster takes a hold on power, it is very difficult to tame.

    Here is a little reminder from history:

    “In creating their state religion, the Christian conspirators not only founded the world’s greatest forgery mill but also went on a censorship rampage that silenced millions of dissident voices by murder and destroyed books, temples, statues, inscriptions and other traces of the previous cultures, eventually leading to immense ignorance and the virtual illiteracy of the Western world…

    These censoring Christian were no doubt well aware what literacy and books really represented, as the words “library” and “liberty” share the same root, “liber” the Latin word for ‘book”…

    The destruction did not end there, however, as the ruination of literacy and history became an all-consuming Christian pursuit. By the fifth century the destruction was so complete, Archbishop Chrysostom could boast of it thus: “Every trace of the old philosophy and literature of the ancient world has vanished from the face of the earth.”’

    At some point, a death penalty was enacted for reading unapproved books, e.g., those that demonstrated the faith was a sham. Pope after Pope continued the assault on books and learning…

    In addition to this odious Christian behavior was the Inquisition, the most ghastly period in all human history, in which millions were tortured and murdered over the centuries so that they or their descendants would conform to the dogma of the Catholic Church. During those many centuries, no dissenter was allowed to flourish and few to live at all. Anyone who dared to question the fairytales now being forced upon them- in other words, all the honest people- were forced to convert or die. Either way, the people would then become fiscally beneficial to the greedy, deceitful Church by serving as slaves, tithing or forfeiting their assets through death, natural or otherwise.”

    Excerpted from “The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold” by Acharya S.

    Dedicated to all free sentient beings.


  13. Do you prefer to be called Mark or Marty?

    I enjoyed reading your summary of Christian history. I have broken away from the church. Yet, I remain interested in Hubbard’s work. How can I connect with others just like me and continue learning Scientology?

  14. Marty, I predict that your book will have a profound effect on the future of Scientology. I cannot wait to read it.

  15. Just a comment while on the subject of Science of Survival and dedications…. Diana Hubbard was named in the original and her named dedication deleted in the recent edition. Another example of the attempted erasure of LRH’s family. You see, leadership and hierarchy can come and go. LRH’s family simply is.

  16. Brilliant references!
    Marty, deep personal gratitude, too. Certain family members now fully enlightened, informed, and free of thought-stopping (great term, whoever coined that). A renewed interest in actual Scientology comes with that, ARC/KRC up, up, up. It’s so good to be able to communicate with loved ones about ALL again!

    Step by step, unraveling the spider’s web,

  17. Great material Marty – thanks for taking responsibility. The IAS reg-fest is 7 days away. What a timely reminder of the contrast between what the “church” has become vs Ron’s intentions for the subject matter.

  18. Me too!

  19. As a tag on that: Just prior to the Protestant Reformation taking off was a tech breakthrough of some magnitude: movable type and the printing press. And while Gutenberg printed 1000’s of Indulgences for the Church, his crowning achievement was the printing of the Bible: the tyranny of illiteracy and superstition had been broken.

    Repeat? Today the Internet makes possible near instantaneous communication, and the formation of like-minded “affinity groups”. It’s going to be an interesting future.

  20. Hope you got one for me too. I owe you dinner of crab, lobster and/or steak at Gladstones.
    When are you coming?
    I will set up the air-mattress and sleeping bag. It will be all warm & cuddly for you.
    Plus some good music.
    Love you.

  21. Very interesting information.

  22. Hubbard said scientology was able to make slaves. He hoped it would not come that far. Unfortunately history shows that scientology (the Corporation that is) is making slaves now.

  23. Les, I would like a copy of the Comm Course I did in 1974 – May.
    I’m opening a Hubbard Center right here in my darn livingroom!
    I can’t find it on-line & I have tryed for hours.
    You get my 10% Haha.
    Well I thought it was funny anyway.
    Where do I report my stats? Are you and Anita taking care of the entire WUS?

  24. I think, some people assume David Miscavige is a “big being” or some kind extra power being, or some kind of anomaly. Even some kind of evil OT. Scary.

    The truth is, David Miscavige’s power is from issuing and contributing to, false reports. It is the INFORMATION he has disseminated, that has carried the power.

    If he knew Pat Broker did not have the upper OT levels , he did not admit it as thousands purchased OT 8, 9, and 10 packages. He knew OT8 was supposed to be delivered in an A.O.. He knew a LOT he with held from the public, and he created false information others bought in to, such as “We have to have before we can do” with the Super Power Rundowns etc etc. I think people should know, it is the FALSE INFORMATION that has had the power. Just like any other implant. It is NOT David Miscavige the being. His riches and treasure and power is all an overt product. It was obtained by him forwarding FALSE INFORMATION.

    His investment into suppressing Marty, Pat and the others, has been an investment in protecting the FALSE INFORMATION he has put forward. It isn’t even about Marty, or Pat or the others. It is about the FALSE INFORMATION.

    What kind of power can FALSE INFORMATION bring? We bombed another country based on false information. I have laid out the red carpet for people in my home based on false information. I have paid people to come to my home and deliver some service based on false information that they were qualified. Some people float on false information and P.R. to survive. It does not mean they are powerful. It just means others are gullible. LOOK. DON”T LISTEN. Yes, you will be whipped all over the place once you LOOK. By someone who did not expect you to LOOK.

    It is false information that you have to play “I don’t know, I have to trust.”

    There is ALWAYS a way to KNOW. And it is your right to KNOW.

  25. I have no idea what I read that caused that itsa.

  26. I am in the middle of Will Durant’s, “The Story of Philosophy”.

  27. P.S. I’m in Acton California 93510

  28. Just ordered my book from

  29. President Bush created a war based on false information to the American people about weapons of mass destruction! David Miscavige is in the same category. He has himself and Tom Cruise, imagining they are the top big beings on the planet while TEENAGERS are spilling blood on the floor of Afghanistan to protect this country. This is how sick and hallucinatory these people are!

  30. Tom Cruise was SUCH a big being he took on America’s sweetheart. Brooke Shields. Well, Geeze Christ Tom. REALLY? Like a little bitch, “Where is her career?”. Tom are you fucking crazy bitch slapping Brooke Sheilds? You had to take on a woman? That made him all right? Oh MY God what a big being! Tom took on Brooke Shields! For real? I guess that was a huge win for him and Miscavige while teenagers spilled blood in war zones, Tom took on Brooke Shields. What gigantic beings! The two biggest beings on Earth took on Brooke Shields!

  31. David, Tom, you are hallucinatory little bitches. You get off on taking out a woman? For real? David and Tom you are little bitches. I just do not know how else to say it. Two little bitches after Brooke Shields. Go for it. Take out Brooke as the “two biggest beings” on the planet. You have it all figured out how to save the world by attacking Brooke Shields you stupid, hallucinatory, fear based, no responsibility, wrong target, low IQ, clueless, must have approval from bodies little whores.

  32. And the Kool Aid drinkers that are still there? They are just BOWLED OVER that Tom and Dave took on Brooke! Woah! So that is what we are wasting, Am I having a loss? NOT!

  33. LRH or david? Well….if you’re going to push me into a corner.

    I’m going with LRH!

  34. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  35. Leonore: “…free of thought-stopping (great term, whoever coined that)”
    Jeff Hawkins deserves the credit for bringing this powerful idea to the forefront of our critical thinking minds in the links below:

  36. martyrathbun09

    It is not that they shouldn’t know it; but they never will no matter how many times you try to ram it down their throats. They will eventually know it – in its complete, accurate context – as they are woken up. My book is part of that process. That process is working wonderfully, no thanks to arrogant, snarky folk like you.

  37. Probably not a crucial point, especially in the context of this discussion, but doesn’t the idea of a “monopoly on Christianity” ignore the Eastern Orthodox (or Orthodox Catholic) Church?

    With about 300 million adherents today, the Eastern Orthodox faith traces its origins to the group of early apostles that formed around Paul. For many centuries it represented what might be called the mainstream establishment of Christianity. The schism between this Eastern branch, based in Byzantium or Constantinople, and the younger Western branch, based in Rome, grew slowly over many centuries, culminating in what is the called the Great Schism in the 11th century. Beyond that point, the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox faith (which is still officially called the Eastern Catholic Church), have become essentially different faiths.

    The whole history is pretty fascinating as it gets into some interesting doctrinal differences that may cast some reflection on the current schism in Scientology. (E.g., generally speaking, a member of the Orthodox faith is expected to be more self-directed in pursuing his/her faith, and less dependent on obeying dictates and rulings from above.)

    But if we’re taking a broad historical view of things, it’s possible to say something like this: The original Christian church, based rather closely on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, was progressively corroded from within by a succession of Popes claiming more and more authority and control over everything from religious doctrine to the workings of church organizations to the minutest details of parishioner’s lives.

    I’d recommend not pushing this analogy too far (as in, for instance, St. Paul = Ron Hubbard; Pope A-Z = David Miscavige; “Marty” Luther = another well-known Marty). For one thing, the “restored” version of Christianity put forward by Luther did not closely resemble the ongoing and intricate traditions of the Orthodox church.

    Another point worth noting: At no point in this history of schisms did the newer movement “take down” the older one. The Eastern and Roman versions of Christianity are still alive and kicking. Even long-suppressed sects like Gnosticism are not absolutely 100-percent dead. Which may be History’s way of suggesting that the near future of Scientology, as a religious tradition, may involve branching paths rather than a single change of trajectory. And also, it’s not necessary (and may not even be possible) for a reformed church to supplant a corrupted one in order to thrive in its own right.

  38. There was a great rattling of chains and bolts, the door was cautiously opened and then shut again behind the lawyer. When the last chain was up, the squat little meat body joined the lawyer in the sitting room. He was a mean, stooping, narrow-shouldered, pie-faced creature; and his age might have been anything between fifty and seventy.

    The lawyer looked at him shocked by his appearance. The squat little meat body grabbed his ears and started frantically running around the room. “Marty is messing with my mind! Marty is messing with my mind!”

  39. Thank you Guy.

  40. Since LRH felt so indebted to the 23 men he acknowledged

    Your “Source” did on sourcing himself, he alsoo was a “student of Freud” wich is not to be taken litteraly but it means he studied his work.

    Irve Lande mentioned that Hubbard went further where Freud stopped.

    Kitty is very Pleased

  41. Indeed. The recent movie “The Master” is a kind of salve or grease to the man and his quest. I suspect its release depended in part anyhow on the work of the Independent Scientology Community. I was and am disappointed in the movie only in the lack of direct acknowledgement to LRH as the source for the characterization. I would have loved to see that plastered up on the big screen. But that’s me. The ability to distinguish identities, similarities and differences is great and very seldom exercised as it should.

    Please tell Mosey that I will make it back to town as soon as I get my lazy, leaden ass in gear. Oh, wait. She is much too much a lady for that. Better tell her that I should be more industrious in returning to hers and yours welcoming, spiritually peaceful space and that I have it on my calendar.

  42. Marty, Amsterdam played an Important roll in both publishing Gallileis forbidden work as in translated biblles for England as in publishing Hubbards work againts the will of The Churh of Scientology.

    “Its two critical aspects were (a) freeing the material of Christianity to everyone through translation, publication and wide distribution of the Holy Bible”

  43. Guy,
    I have my copy of Science of Survival, with the Diana dedication, sitting on my bookshelf. It is the one I use and I am so glad I have it.

  44. Look at downloads on the internet or the Leaks thread about it on Why We Protest if you can get around the”” Entheta

  45. Marty, do you think that is a real letter?

  46. Les,
    Great analysis. Can’t agree more.

    I might add that the good thing and the bad thing about David Miscavige is that he has transformed just about EVERYTHING in Scientology to conform to his case or his will to power, which is the bad thing. But the good thing is that his overwhelming and complete alteration of LRH’s Scientology at all levels has opened a window of opportunity for Independent Scientologists to position themselves as on-source, using on source materials.

    DM is running his NCG case and his PT overts on everyone… (he never got to EP on anything and has lots of Present Time overts), so he makes everyone overrun with 3 swing F/Ns and interminable Sec Checks.

    DM has given up the exclusive on-source franchise, by making himself the source, I guess that is the best way of putting it.. So, the on-source franchise is available to anyone who wants to walk in those shoes… boots.

  47. martyrathbun09


  48. martyrathbun09


  49. martyrathbun09

    Siggy was acknowledged along with the 22 others on the original SOS.

  50. Knowing history is a wonderful eye opener.
    After a life time of writing the 10 volumes of “The Story of Civilization”, Will and Ariel Durant wrote “The Lessons of History”.a summation of this great study of man’s history. It’s only 102 pages in which they offer their conclusions of the human experience. I highly recommend it.

    Also PBS Frontline did a very interesting series on “God in America” that documented the expansion of the Protestant Reformation in America up to present time. It’s fascinating where the history of Scientology fits into this on going saga of mankind’s quest for spiritual enlightment. You can see the PBS series on the internet. Very eye opening.

  51. Dear The Truth Hurts,

    Great post you have written. No doubt your parents inculcated this kind of frame of mind on you. Your post is full of wonderful venom, the kind I’m sure you enjoy day in and day out, the kind I’m sure your friends and wife/husband and children savour to no end every time you dish it out to them, even if you do it in a covert manner, so that you are not found out as what you are…..

    Unfortunately you have posted your venom in the wrong blog. I would suggest you you Google “Enemies of the human”, where I’m sure you and your poisonous intentions will be more than welcome.

    Feel free to answer.

    Yours truly


  52. DMSMH was dedicated solely to Will Durant.

  53. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Dear Marty,

    I came to the exact same conclusion as you did when I read Will Durant.
    In fact the Reformation, which started in 1517 (price of your Book 🙂 ), culminated finally in the founding of the United States and the french Revolution ! People that wanted real freedom , free of oppression of the Catholic Church and the Nobles.

    Some years ago I found all volumes of Will Durant on a Flea Market for 7$. The next 2 years I read all those Volumes (30-40 books) and I told all my Scientology friends, that were struggling with the Basics in the Church of disconnection, that I’m studying the ” Basics of the Basics”. Even to the regges and call-inners I told I’m studying the “Basics of the Basics” written by Will Durant. 90% of the Scientologists didn’t even know who that is and didn’t understand what I’m talking about. I’ll will reread them as it’s the most fascinating read I ever had.

    You’ll find many examples of the theories of Scientology or Ideas in the philosophical context or having to do about 3rdyn. or Lrh ideas about Management etc in those books.

    When i finished to read those books I was done with the church of Scientology and decided to get out and take my whole family with me, what I succeeded in.
    Those books gave me a better understanding about what is happening in the “Church of Disconnection”, but it also demonstrated that there is lots of hope for our purpose.

    I plead for that it is mandatory for anyone wanting to become a politician to read those books and for Scientologists too !

    IMHO 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  54. Marty,
    Your book is being delivered tomorrow!! Amazon UK is delivering it next day service free of post charge. Good old UK! I guess they know when they’ve hit on a winner eh?


  55. martyrathbun09


  56. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Yeah it’s the same effect but quite faster !
    The intenent can bring peace and evolution to makind at fast speed as the bools did, and it will not be centuries.

    The same with Scientology !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  57. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    So there is a monopoly in the east (see russia) and one in the west.

  58. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    some months ago I read some stuff from Freud and his is definitively the forerunner of Dianetics.

  59. GO GO GO Big Bird !

  60. Brillant work Marty, wonderful 3rd Dynamic viewpoint, can’t wait to get your book.

  61. Marty,

    I respect the fact you did not censor the post by “The Truth Hurts” but why the pit down? If you feel it is wrong, contains false Info etc them offer an opposing view or correct information –

    You have been writing about Christianity lately and I know you probably have studied it to a great extent – so you are aware that Christianity, as well as Judeism and others have face tremendous critisim and the might of more SP s than scientolgy has ever imagined in its short history to date – yet they still stand strong, if anything the supresion and critisism have strengthened the faiths of Christians and Jews over the course of history – that strength came from those that fought and died for “the light”.

    Some of Scientology s biggest critisims are the extremes it’s followers and leaders have gone to keep “the light” away, to attach critisim and try to discredit the messenger-

    It seems you and the other Indies are less secretive than the COS, but are still loathe to respond to critisim with real, sincere, honest discourse, disagreement and even occasional acknowledgment.

    I have not read anywhere that Hubbard is thought to be a god (please correct me if I am wrong). If Hubbard is a man than he has faults, even in the eyes of his most devout followers, as a man he by nature is like the rest of us in as much as he was not perfect. His faults may be few In Th eyes of his followers and many in the eyes of his critics but why pretend as if they either do not exist, can t be acknowledged or can only be admitted to a chosen few who can handle it?

    Open up Scientology and Hubbard so that it can live or die InThe light

    If Scientology is as you and most of its followers beleive, than it can not be killed off via critisim and or suppression – if anything it will grow. If the foundation of Scientology is built on sand, then it wil not survive I’m any meaningful manner regardless of its critics and followers – it will continue to struggle for relevance.

  62. I’d like to suggest readers who haven’t yet gotten started on the Durants’ “Story of Civilization” take a couple days to study their “Lessons of History”. I don’t think it is more than a couple of hundred pages but is an amazing thing to read. For me, it opened my eyes to the evolution of the “human race” (not such a bad or degraded group of beings after all) and some cyclic aspects of civilization when viewed over thousands of years.

  63. The Catholic Church survived the Reformation by reforming itself, getting rid of the worst excesses that Martin Luther had opposed but keeping its basic structure. That however required a new generation of leaders, and in these faster days the CoS doesn’t have the luxury of waiting for them to emerge.

  64. Marty, feel free to delete this if you like, I don’t want to “steal your thunder” or divert anyone away from the main topic of this post.

    But I wanted to post here an Amazon reviewer’s review of “Lessons of History” which does a good job of saying how I feel about this amazing book:

    Will and Ariel Durant were to history what Carl Sagan was to science: They breathed life into a subject considered lifeless by too many, and clothed the skeleton of recorded history in a garment rich in colorful detail and vast in perspective.

    “Lessons Of History” is, in my opinion, the finest 100 page non-fiction book ever written, and represents the capstone and encapsulating work of two authors who gave the world their ten thousand page “Story Of Civilization” over a period of 50 years.

    Within this delightful book, one can view the enormous panorama of human civilization as it developed from, and was formed by, the matrices of geography, religion, science, war, and a host of other factors.

    The Durant’s, in a writing style that should have been copyrighted, provide the reader with an engaging view of humanity that few readers will come away from without being touched and awed. To be sure, the Durant’s works have had a few (very few) detractors, but they were almost entirely high-browed academics in narrow research areas who most likely envied them their commercial success. If I could give this synopsis of 100 centuries of history more than 5 stars I’d do it in a nanosecond.

  65. Alex, instead of attacking the poster, why don t you spend your energy addressing the content of the post? It looks to me a quote from one of Hubbards s ex wives. Where is the venom in that? If the content of the quoted texted/letter is wrong, faulty, not real etc. then please state your view of it- why attack the person who posted it

  66. “know it – in its complete, accurate context –“
    That’s the way I would like to know it.

    It’s not that really matters, because who cares about Einstein eccentricities when studying or using his theories.

  67. Yes! Good news: Your order of “The Scientology Reformation” has shipped!

  68. How can I connect with others just like me and continue learning Scientology?

    Here’s a good place to start:

    Welcome Back!

  69. Cece, I know a small group just one town over from you. Drop me an email if you’d like me to put you in touch.

    info @ scientologymyths . com

  70. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Off topic:

    Here a great bulletin from LRH about the reasons of ARCxs which was written in 1965- 5 years later than blow offs (31.dec 1959) and 3 years later than Arcx- Missed witholds (3 may 1962).
    This bulletin I think is the most important bulletin that all indies have to starrate. It’s the solution to most of our problems !!!!!!!
    What you think MOQ ?

    HCOB 29 March 1965 Arc Breaks:

    Thanks to Old Auditor !

  71. Got the Kindle version of the book just now so I can read it on my iPad!

  72. „The Philadelphia Doctorate Course“ is not just a dissertation but a complete way how to achieve OT abilites. Most interesting is, that you do not need a second person, no physical universe device and not a body to apply the tech. You can apply that tech no matter how able or unable you are. You only need to remember that tech and have some awareness. That is the most valuable aspect of this tech. I use this tech on a regular basis. And I can tell you, it works. Not super fantastic David Miscavige promotion style. But good enough for me.

  73. To those interested, author George Pendle gives a pretty detailed account of how Ron met Sara at John Parson’s house in 1945/46 in Pendle’s book “Strange Angel: The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons” (2006).

    Pendle is an excellent writer, and also gives some background details on Sara’s childhood family life and what kind of person she was (at least in 1945/46).

  74. “The Scientology Reformation” is currently #1 on Amazon in the category “Religion & Spirituality — Other Religions, Practices & Sacred Texts”.

  75. Note:
    The 1951 Manuscript Edition of Science of Survival carries this dedication in the beginning:
    “To Alexis Valerie Hubbard
    for whose tomorrow may be hoped a world that is fit to be free.”
    That looks like affinity to me.

  76. Yeah – they’re quick. I got mine today and have already read it. (Short review above)

  77. I can recommend the book you mention. Very interesting.

  78. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Off topic again !
    I apologize !

    But I’m so excited about this Hcob of 29 March 1965.Never I’ve seen this in my 35 years as a member of the C.O.S.
    I was taught:

    blows= O/Ws (1959)
    Arc breaks= O/Ws(1962)
    Upset= O/ws or out-list

    Never I was shown this HCOB of 1965 which resolves it 100%:

    ” Great news !
    I’ve found the basis of ARC breaks !”

    and here the remedy:

    “1. The Pc is ARC broken because something happened.
    2. The Pc will continue to be ARC broken until the thing is found.
    3. The ARC break will vanish magically when the source is found.”

    We should mail this HCOB to all Scientologists Worlwide with some context and they’ll blow tons of charges when they realize that their arc breaks were never handled with the right tech and DM will be gone.

    ” You, you may say
    I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one
    I hope some day you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one ”


  79. Just finished the book. Wow! It may be small-ish but it sure packs a punch! Particularly loved the chapter on the IAS and the FULL lowdown on the Feshbachs and Slatkin’s ponzi scheme. Also the conclusion to the Zwan affair was a jaw-on-the-floor moment.

    I’m sure the press will have a field day with the sections about Tom Cruise, but the way you track his transformation under Miscavige’s mentorship from well-meaning if slightly dim actor (my words not yours!) to all-out swivel eyed fanatic is spellbinding stuff. It will definitely fully answer the question many people have had – myself included – as to whether Tom was complicit in the madness or not.

    Brilliantly written and like the first book, one always gets the sense of the truth moving one up a little higher as you read. I will give a more thorough review on Amazon. Marty – great work. Thank you.

  80. Conrad, history has recently repeated itself in Afghanistan, where a few years ago the Taliban set out to destroy vestiges of other religions by dynamiting to bits giant Buddhas carved into cliffs there. It seems there is a human tendency to participate in such fanaticism, betraying what were originally positive and liberating teachings.

  81. Marty. I have asked questions in two posting directly to you. I have not received replies from you. What does it take to get a reply (some communication) so I can feel like a welcomed member of your group?

  82. Mickey,

    The irony is, the warnings and dangers of “thought stopping” are woven through-out the materials of Scientology — everything from the fundamentals like Axiom 11 (i.e. the relationship of as-is-ness, not-is-ness and alter-is-ness), to the very heart of the Grades leading up to Clear. The very definition of “problem” in Scientology provides the mechanism for and how one can avoid “thought stopping”.

    That Scientology Inc. has become Thought Stopping Central is really the evidence that those running the show haven’t a clue what real Scientology is truly about.

  83. I think if we all, the human race, just did OT TRO, it would be a beautiful world. You may be on to something incredible for others to duplicate.

  84. Alex Castillo

    It seems to me, in MHO, that Tiny Fists David Miscavige, when he decided to take full control of everything Scientology, when he, by chance, came across the giants LRH acknowledged as reference sources in his long research for the answers to how he could help the Human Race free themselves of aberration, he -Miscavige- (cleverly?) thought he should remove such references from LRH’s books, i.e. SoS, DMSMH and perhaps other published materials, so that his current and future sheeple would not stray into researching such people and “start mixing practices”. (that would have been his excuse for removing source references) That is to say, Miscavige wanted to be able to say to the public that only LRH and he, David Miscavige knew all the “secrets of Scientology”. That way, with his now clearly visible “hidden data line” (the secrets he claimed LRH told him before dying), he could and has been controlling ignorant “Scientologists” for a long time. New people reading the now heavily altered LRH’s books published by the Cult of Miscavige would never know about LRH’s acknowledgements to others who had similar ideas and helped him bring about what we know as Dianetics and Scientology. The most difficult outpoint to spot is that which is missing. If you don’t know it should be there, you don’t notice it’s absence.

    The impact of what you have written in your latest book, Mark, should be the final blow that is going to turn David Miscavige’s credibility into dirt and finally just unnoticeable dust.
    Obviously you are not dealing with a highly intelligent individual, amigo, so now that the tides have seriously turn in favour of the Independent Movement you should have no trouble bringing this miserable and true Degraded Being to task.

    You have more backing than you know.



  85. Amazon review written and 5 more copies ordered – due to local demand.

  86. martyrathbun09

    Margaret, Thanks. If you’ve read more into this crowd – and they cover LRH much, please send me a reading list. Thanks.

  87. martyrathbun09

    You’ve got awful thin skin for a hyper-critic.

  88. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the review Martin. You are too kind.

  89. TO, I wish you were not so reticent about speaking your mind…

  90. You are right, @richardgrant, that the history of Christianity is more complex than Durant stated it to be, but his summation is correct enough from a Western-centered perspective. And Roman Catholicism is nominally the largest branch of Christianity.

    Christianity actually split into 3 sizable branches – the Roman, the Eastern Orthodox Churches (officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church), and the Oriental Orthodox Church which is different from the Eastern Orthodox. Wikipedia has some good articles about all of this. Among the “Eastern” believers, Roman Catholicism is largely seen as the deviant, “squirrel” branch.

    The Eastern and Oriental branches developed somewhat differently from the Roman but are similar in many ways.

    However, I think the parallels to Scientology church history are remarkable.

    There have already been at least 1 major schism, the one in the 1980s when Bill Robertson began setting up what has become an “Eastern” branch of Scientology via the Ron’sOrgs, and which apparently are largely far more “orthodox” and conservative than the CoS we know in the West, at least up through OTIII.

    And there are various other offshoots in existence and have been for some decades actually.

    About your last point that reformers never actually “took down” the existing organizations, this is true, but today’s scene is a bit diffferent in that we have an existing separation of Church and State that did not exist back then, opening up the possibilty of lawfully deposing a self-styled “Pope” like Miscavige. The Roman Church in Europe was essentially also the State, making it very powerful indeed. Miscavige’s “church” does not have that power of life and death enforcement over the general populace. The CoS may continue to exist in name, but eventually Davey will be gone and it will be “Under New Management” one way or another and will be a horse of a different and hopefully better color, if it continues to exist.

    For a good concise and lively look at Early Christianity and how and why it developed the way it did, I recommend a little book titled “Beyond Belief” by Elaine Pagels, one of today’s top scholars on the subject.

  91. Will it be on kindle soon?

  92. Wikipedia on the Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxies, for those who are interested:

  93. Yes, much shorter comm lag. No doubt because the Scientology founder invited (or indeed, expected) reform to occur should it become necessary.

  94. This is a blog not an AA meeting.

  95. Roger, see my links to Wikipedia articles below.

    The main difference between Roman Catholicism and the eastern branches is the role of Pope.

    In the East, the churches are in agreement on many things, but are autonomously run, country by country, by comparison. In each country the State has always tried, with varying degrees of success, to co-opt the Church(es). But in Rome, the State and Church became one monolithic totalitarian organization, with the weapons and soldiers and police of the State at the service of the Church, and vice-versa. To some extent this was also true in Constantinople, the seat of Orthodoxy.

    The current Russian regime is also working to establish Russian Orthodoxy as the State religion; this has led to schisms outside of Russia, in which previously “Russian” Orthodox churches in the USA and other countries have changed their names to “Eastern Orthodox church”. This began in Soviet times, when the Soviet State had co-opted the Orthodox Church leadership in Russia.

    It is thought by some that the same kind of scenario is playing out in Tibetan Buddhism, where the Han Chinese who rule from Beijing are pushing one of their own choosing to be recognized as the “Dalai Lama”, whereas the existing Dalai Lama lives in exile in the West.

    One lesson I take from all this is that the State often perceives Religion/Church as a potential threat to it’s power, and works to co-opt religious organizations and beliefs. Witness Beijing’s attitude towards Buddhism or persecution of Falun Gong in China.

  96. Me too! 🙂

  97. Laughter!

  98. Thanks Dan, I will pick it up. I am reading “The Story of Philosophy” by Durant (through audio book) and it is a beautiful piece of literature. He has some others too I mean to explore, Heroes of History and The Greatest Minds and Ideas of all Time. For those of you in action with work and no time to sit still, you can still experience these works through . You can download the audio books and listen to them through an ipod nano while you are in motion with work or other physical demands. There are four Will Durant books on and his other works can be found on Ebay in separate or entire volumes at very little cost.

  99. Worsel, Two thumbs up! 🙂

  100. also has: A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age by William Manchester (that Scott Weible recommended.)

  101. That is a non-answer, Marty. If the Indie movement is valid, you guys need to be able to face real questions from real, thinking people.

  102. martyrathbun09

    I don’t have to do anything. Least of all take an arrogant, anonymous troll seriously.

  103. martyrathbun09


  104. okay, then. Never mind.

  105. Rine,
    you can get it on Kindle now.

  106. You should not disregard Rudolph Steiner although he is a bit wonkey on “race”like all of us were back in the 1800’s and the beginning of the 20th century. Anthroposophy = Wisdom comes through man itself versus Theosophy = Wisdom comes through God/the Divine. me i believe it comes from both and than some.


  107. I dono about snarky though, Marty… except perhaps the rude, disrespectful and sarcastic parts of the definition. ; – )

    So I did a search for Alexis out of curiosity, and one interesting article was;

    That Wiki has an (limited) article on SOS is interesting enough, but that it mentions about Sara and Alexis more to the point of this thread – “The book was published in August 1951 and was originally dedicated to his daughter Alexis Valerie Hubbard…”

    Can anyone verify that (last sentence) ?

  108. Excellent point.

  109. Frankly the letter reminds of someone I left behind long ago… not to be sarcastic, but one does need to know when to hold, and when to fold.

  110. It’s available on Kindle right now. I just ordered it and read the whole thing in a few of hours…

  111. Welcome Puppy eyes!
    If you really want a hearty welcome try posting in your real name and if you are a Scientologist, giving your story and you will get an INCREDIBLE welcome!!

  112. Marty, I just finished reading the book and loved it! It does a great job of bringing support for the claims set forth in the “31 Factors For Scientologists Should Consider. I also love how you put everything in the context of history. My favorite part however was the addition of your insider view of the “Zwan Affair.”

    Thank you for continuing to be there and communicate!

    I will make sure to post a similar review on Amazon.

  113. That’s exactly the way I see. I agree with LRH regarding “don’t ever think a monopoly of this subject is a good thing…”

    miscavige, buy being the suppressive ass that he is, really set the wheels in motion to ensure there never will be a monopoly. It presents its own set of problems, but they are at least “known” problems that have handlings.

    Franchise fee? Yea, you have to take some responsibility…that’s the fee.

  114. constant vigilance

    to “The Oracle”…. I just read all your posts and loved every minute of it. You and others here are in such fine form today. I would like to email the Oracle privately. Is that possible? If so, send me your email address please.

  115. Better acces to information will do that for you.

    “Knowledge is Free”


  116. FYI ~ just got a Kindle copy as well… it’s there.

  117. Sorry if I’m taking liberties;


    To L. Ron Hubbard,

    Long may you run…


  118. While there are similarities between the Co$ and the current reformation, there is one big difference which will make the outcome of this reformation quite different.
    That is, in all branches of Christianity you are essentially required to wait until you are dead to determine the actual “outcome.”

    In scientology, one is expected to get real results NOW. One either gets results, or one doesn’t. The truth or untruth of any auditor or supervisor’s assertions can be ascertained in a very short period of time.

    And it is only results which will carry the subject forward. Lack of real results would lead to its demise.

  119. 😀

  120. Great! The kindle version does not show up on the link on this webpage, but I found it available at:

    I have it to read now!

  121. Bruce,

    The following link is from an interview (today) on CBS this Morning with Paul Thomas Anderson and he admits that the character is based on LRH and the plot was based on Dianetics.

    I agree it’s not as satisfying as having the LRH source “plastered up on the big screen”. But, it’s the first interview that I’ve seen where PTA more clearly acknowledges the connection.

    I suspect that in order for him to get the film out without catching lots of flack from the church he had to avoid directly admitting or publicizing the parallels.

    Of course, if your a Scientologist watching “The Master” there is no question as to whom and what PTA used as a basis for the characters and plot. I’m not so sure how non-Scientologist – without a reference point – will view the film.

    Although, the actors and cinematography (IMO) are outstanding it seems (for some) that the plot was somewhat muddled — probably due to cuts and edits.

    In fact, in a script review of “The Master” posted by The Playlist in 2010. The site noted that Lancaster’s wife was called Mary Sue in the original Anderson screenplay, as well as many media outlets who early on referred to Dodd’s wife as Mary Sue. However, in the movie the characters name was Peggy Dodd. Hmm…wonder why it was changed?

    It’s interesting what ends up on the cutting room floor – I’d love to see the original uncut version as intended by Paul Thomas Anderson. I think he’s brilliant!

  122. I concur, there’s a time to shut them up quickly and loudly!

  123. martyrathbun09


  124. martyrathbun09

    Yes, it was. I have a first edition.

  125. I have a 1963 printing that is dedicated to Alexis Valerie Hubbard. And, of course, the 23 people are listed, as a well has his instructors from Princeton and George Washington University.

    I am glad the materials are available. I have quite a collection of books and tapes, including the reel-to-reel version of the PDC (all I need is a tape player!).

    Mr. David Miscavige has created this crazy thing: People held with daggers at their throat while being yelled at: “Be free, damn you!”


  126. Final thing on Mitt Romney, first he had Hubbard Books in his favorits, now not to be found.

    What’s up with that?

    Don’t worry I can smell hypocrit from a mile away. (smells himself)

  127. I have a ’63 edition with the dedication as well.

  128. Is it possible the official name was something else then? I have many checksheets including the HQS from 1972 which has TRs 0-9.

  129. By the way I am very Jealous of Marty having a Copy of the 1951 Dianetics book but at the same time I really want him to have that. My materlistic self has to move over *scoot over* for my spirutal self.

    I am so fucking glad Marty has this chunck of history. All I really want is to restore a crooked line in History.


  130. Interesting how the state incorporates religion into their control of the populace.

  131. Miscavige is a sick you know what. I am still outraged that Mary Sue was just swept under the carpet. WTF — she did more for Scientology than any person alive besides LRH.

  132. My copy will be here on Tuesday!

  133. Thought: the Catholic Church statered around Constantine in the 4 Century.
    Before that it was “spiritual tuppervwhere party, where people met in homes. Those where the “original church.

    In 150 ad. there where about 17,500 Christians. In the year 350 ad. there were aprox. 33,000,000. That was more than half the Greco Roman Empire as the population was aprox. 60,000,000.

    No popes, no crusades, no centralized church, no riches, no power except: that to please your god you had to serve human beings. There where two plagues during their ascent, and infinicide was a popular practice with the Romans and Greeks. Especially girls.

    Constatine then nailed everything shut like Miscavige does. Mine mine mine mine!!!!

    There is one word that won the hearts and mind of the pagan world pre constantine, pre crusades, pre centralization, pre popes: love

  134. To please your god by serving human beings was a new concept in the western world, but not in the eastern world.

  135. Angela,

    By “them” are you referring to trolls or to non-scientologists? If the former, I have to admit that I am mystified. I didn’t see anything in Claritysav’s post that I would think folks would find offensive. Additionally, I’ve encountered many posts by Claritysav on other forums and have seen nothing that would indicate this person is a troll (either OSA, Anonymous, or otherwise). I’d be interested to hear if you or others have different intel.

    Regarding TTH’s post, I can see how that could be viewed as bull-baiting and therefore might arouse suspicion about the motivation for the post. I don’t understand why the need for such antagonistic responses, as they are not very effective and tend to reflect poorly on the poster. But if the group has had poor interactions in this past with this poster, then perhaps that explains it.

    Here is what I’m really asking: I was under the impression that non-scientologists are welcome on this board. Is that true? I’ve been following this board for awhile, purchasing Marty’s books, spending hours and hours reading and learning, trying to be supportive, get the word out, contribute to worthy causes. But I find these exchanges very puzzling and quite off-putting. Perhaps I don’t have sufficient context? I would be quite grateful if someone, anyone, could shed some light.

  136. Great contribution! “If you can read a neon sign….”. Hallelujah! Amazing how some people will ARCX the hell out of a P.C. or student and just keep on going as if it doesn’t mean a damn! When did LOOKING and KNOWING drop out as a prerequisite to doing anything else? Thanks for the reference Roger!


    By the way, stripping is not illegal. The Church is setting up it’s own laws now. That is kind of spooky.

    That the staff at the base will applaud any staff member who gets an abortion to atone for their desire, and then bitch slap some guy all around the place for going to a strip joint is an indication of how upside down and warped their universe has become.

    And trust me, the Church will accept donations from strippers for service. Strippers are not serial killers. They are serial thrillers.

  138. Marty,
    I’m traveling at the moment, so don’t have handy access to the relevant chapter numbers. But the above book, along with the recently published “Robert A. Heinlein: In Dialogue with His Century: Volume 1 (1907-1948): Learning Curve” by William H. Patterson (2011), filled in a number of missing pieces for me of LRH’s life before, during and directly after the war. I suspect that the Volume II will fill in a few more.
    If I’m able to get the specific chapter numbers together in the next few days, I’ll drop you an email.

  139. This is a blog, not a seminar.

    A seminar is, generally, a form of academic instruction, either at an academic institution or offered by a commercial or professional organization. It has the function of bringing together small groups for recurring meetings, focusing each time on some particular subject, in which everyone present is requested to actively participate. This is often accomplished through an ongoing Socratic dialogue with a seminar leader or instructor, or through a more formal presentation of research. It is essentially a place where assigned readings are discussed, questions can be raised and debates can be conducted.

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  142. TO, love the way you nail down these two characters. With a few more
    modifiers like that, they might just as-is!

  143. Lucy, can’t wait for the next installment of this scary novel.
    (btw, why are all my favorite messengers now indies [Amy, Lucy, Christie…]?).

  144. Roger, my last years in the SO when I had to be on course I “studied”
    Will Durant, and had to use the pretext I was looking up a reference.
    Fascinating reading and such insights! Can’t stop reading once you start.

  145. +1000

  146. Hear! Hear! 2 thumbs up, Tony! 🙂

  147. sea cricket, Sandy, Claritysav,

    Do you see how TTH’s post, in the context of this, Marty’s post about the publication of his latest book and the ensuing of a celebration of this event by manycommenters, might be viewed as ill-mannered, gauche, or just plain boorish by some of us? Any psychologist or psychiatrist would likely dub it as “inappropriate” in the context into which it was posted.

    Sure, you can post whatever you want here, but even if it passes moderation, does that mean you can somehow expect universal praise, approval, and sympathy for posting it? I think not. That would just be a tyranny of it’s own kind, if we HAD TO like everything that is posted, no matter how gauche or coarse.

    It would be kinda like being forced to like David Miscavige, wouldn’t it?

  148. Alaska Ronn, I had a similar thought – “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”, right? Sounds like a letter a bitter ex-wife might write. Not sayin’ I even know who initiated the split…….

  149. Hope I can shed some light. This is only from my view as a visitor.

    Some posts are actually ser facs. (What does it take to get an answer from you Marty????)

    Some posts are actually attempts to restimulate. (How does it make you feel Marty?)

    Who or What would ser fac on/ work to restimulate someone?

    You fill in the blank _______________________________.

    Is that tolerated here? Very little. People have gone down to zero tolerance with the evil intentions. Marty isn’t running for election in any campaign. He does not owe it to people to be a couch that cats can sharpen their claws on. It is not that non Scientologists are not welcome on this board. People that are CURIOUS should be here. People with other agendas should be somewhere else.

    It is weird for me when I see anybody post something that suggests Marty has a debt. He is not employed by anyone reading this blog and he has every right to wake up tomorrow and write, “Fuck all of you, I have decided to become a Muslim.” He has a right to say whatever he feels like saying. This is a blog. He does not have to apologize for posting on his own blog whatever he feels like saying.

    He is wearing more than one hat here. The people reading this blog are wearing one, for the most part. Interested people. Interest is a pretty high tone level. There are some people that stumble in here and they just don’t really know where they are. And there are some people that stumble in here and they are not curious at all. Wrong particles.

  150. Theo Sismanides

    Claritysav, I got to know you from Tony Ortega’s new blog, where I posted many posts in answers to some people’s comments there. I hadn’t realised how those people there, have such an anti-Scientology perspective until quite some wrote to me and some did insult me straight saying I am insane and mentally ill and many other things.

    I persisted and I think I did fine by getting into decent communication with some people there and finally at least being able to talk somehow.

    But since people there just attack Scientology and LRH I said at a certain point of time that LRH is not the important thing here but the Tech is. Yes, he was human but yes he did leave behind him a work that is uncomparable to any right now on this planet.

    So, no matter how much you want to attack LRH realise that, hey, the people behind Scientology have as their stable datum the Tech and not the man and his life.

    So now you can go ahead attacking all you want.

  151. martyrathbun09

    Thanks a lot Margaret.

  152. Valkov and Oracle~

    Thank you for taking the time to respond. After posting last night, I snuggled into bed and picked up the book I am currently making my way through, which happens to be Marty’s “What’s Wrong With Scientology?” Here is what I read:

    “Scientology Inc. has degenerated into a police-state culture that punishes guilt by association. . . . Consequently, corporate Scientologists must develop rather anti-social habits in order to stay aloof and unconnected to anybody who may be labeled suppressive by the organization. In my opinion, this is a major reason why outsiders increasingly have come to the conclusion that Scientologists are humorless, uptight and nosey, and that they act in a holier-than-thou manner. These personality flaws are inculcated as necessities for survival within the corporate Scientology culture.”

    “With this cultural regression running unabated the gains that the technology can deliver . . . are not only taken away, they are reversed to less enlightened states than many had when they approached Scientology to begin with. Take Grade 0 on the Bridge, for example. The Communication level. The official, expected ability gained at that Grade is stated as: ‘Willing for others to communicate to him on any subject. No longer resisting communication from others on unpleasant or unwanted subjects. Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.’

    Under the duress of Scientology Inc.’s policies on ‘disconnection,’ corporate Scientologists can become extremely wary of communicating with many categories of people.”

    This was a helpful passage for me. I take this to mean that indies have been quite traumatized by their experience in corporate Scientology, are at varying stages of recovering from the group think and nastiness of corporate Scientology, and are therefore still evolving. A large part of the healing process is recovering the gains from the basics. I don’t necessarily get the impression by the responses to outsiders, however, that this is happening on a very wide scale. It MAY be happening internally, but the public doesn’t have the advantage of your internal thoughts–only the words we read in the posts. In other words, the public is gaining a perception based on their observations.

    Here is my concern: like it or not, the Scientology story is a full-on public story now. People are watching and drawing conclusions based on the behaviours they observe. This could have an impact on whether (or not) there is public support for retaining the tax deduction for auditing services, which I would think the indies want to retain. That’s just one example of why one might care about at least keeping the public with a neutral view of the independent movement. Attacking posters who post material intended to provoke (TTH)–I think the public would view this as merely defending yourselves and nobody would bat an eyelash if you wanted to whack the troll. Attacking posters who are trying to learn and understand (Claritysav)–just creates an environment of fear and self-censorship, which discourages participation, honesty and learning. The question for me is whether the indies are really going to be able to shake off the old corpSci habits and ways of dealing with people. Yesterday’s exchange makes me question that.

    Look–this is your community. Run it how you like, of course. And sure, nobody owes anybody anything. If a post upsets you, ignore it, respond to it, whatever. However, please appreciate that short explanations go a long way. If you think a post is distracting or provocative, why not simply a polite note to the effect of: “you pose an interesting question, but you are not likely to get a serious response because you said ‘x’ and that is viewed by this group as disrespectful, distracting, etc.” You’ve now then used those Comm skills and are perceived as tolerant. Obviously, there are serious trolls who should be ignored. But we’re not all trolls. And maybe we shouldn’t be using this board to educate ourselves. In that case, a “Netiquette” for this blog might be useful, so people are on notice as to what the purpose is here, what type of board culture is desired, what chatter is tolerated and what is not, etc.

    I’d like to keep coming here, keep supporting, etc. But I wouldn’t be being honest if I said I felt welcome here, even though nobody has been rude to me personally so far. But because of how others are treated it makes me wary. I guess I just have certain expectations about what indies are striving for, and witnessing yesterday’s ugly exchange made me question my support and made me feel like someone let the air out of my balloon. Very discouraging.

    Today, however, is a new day. Sometimes a good night’s sleep puts it in perspective. Also, there is bacon in my future. And bacon makes EVERYTHING better. Peace.

    Sea Cricket

  153. Sea Cricket,

    You have communicated in this post and the post that followed a sentiment that I fully agree and you have done so in a more effective and eloquent maner than I would have had I tried.

    So I will say “what Sea Cricket said” And leave it at that.


  154. Sounds like you are the one that has been traumatized. I recommend a contact assist. 🙂

  155. Thanks sea cricket. To clarify, I read Angela’s post as referring to trolls, and it was a response to the comment by a “Sandy”. I also read Sandy as a bit of a troll.

    We do not need Sandy to tell us whether or not Independent Scientology is “valid” or not. Independent Scientology will stand or fall on it’s own merits, meaning, how well it delivers LRH standard tech – i.e., how happy people are with the auditing and training they receive from Independent practitioners.

    “Sandy” posted – “….you guys need to be able to face real questions from real, thinking people.” As opposed to what, or who?

    As though we are not, or the bulk of humanity are not – real thinking people.

    It seemed like a bit of drive-by condescension.

    It’s not easy, to post on the Internet, without being at times misunderstood. Posters are just anonymous faceless names or handles. Whatever is posted has to stand on it’s own. Off-the-cuff remarks generate off-the-cuff responses or reactions, and things easily snowball from there into a firefight.

    But you know what I’m talking (rambling) about.

    Marty’s blog is not exclusively a didactic It’s more of a social bull session at times, an information and experience-sharing discussion, and more.

    Drive-bys sometimes get booed.

  156. yes that is why. The technology of the internet will save the world. That is one thing LRH Missed because he was born too early for it.

  157. Pingback: > הרפורמה של הסיינטולוגיה – מה כל סיינטולוג צריך לדעת | "אינדיז" – סיינטולוגים עצמאיים ישראל

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