“Then there is me!” – Tom Cruise


The Gates of Hell from the Scientology Reformation

Tony Ortega’s Review

Many have speculated just how far Tom Cruise has gone into the Scientology Inc. bedlam created by his best man David Miscavige.   The book The Scientology Reformation answers that question rather definitively, now available in Kindle e-book format.

Excerpt from Chapter 8:  The Gates Of Hell

…Miscavige’s reaction to my escape was chilling. He ordered John Brousseau, his resident handyman – and the architect of most of the Tom Cruise vehicle and home upgrades – to install prison bars on all windows in the Hole so that no one else could escape.

With me out of the way, Miscavige’s madness was unbridled. He began to tell Tom Cruise tales of having to physically beat the degraded beings in his environment to keep them in line. Cruise followed suit, doing the same to his own staff. Michael Doven, his long-time personal assistant, started receiving regular physical abuse from Tom. Another of Tom’s staff – a woman – was grabbed and slammed up against a file cabinet by Cruise for failing to show him proper respect. He railed and screamed, like Miscavige, when he discovered a near-microscopic chip in a drinking glass handed to him by one of his staff. He was convinced the degraded beings were steadily sabotaging him, stalking him like the zombies from Night of the Living Dead. Tom even physically abused the one-time international spokesperson for Scientology, one Tommy Davis.

Miscavige was happy to have Tom ape his own psychotic behavior. He once briefed the inhabitants of the Hole that Tom was fully informed of their conspiracies to destroy Miscavige.  He told the assembled that Tom promised to come to the Hole to give Yager, Ray Mithoff (the highest scriptural authority in Scientology) and the former executor of Mr. Hubbard’s will, Norman Starkey, black eyes if their confessions were not to Dave’s liking. In order to prevent the world’s biggest star from having to do Dave’s dirty work, the leadership within the Hole decided they had better do it first. The eighty staff went into a frenzy of punching and kicking the trio, fattening the lips and blackening the eyes of all three.

By mid-to-late 2004 Tom was so locked in to Miscavige’s spell he was incapable of comfortable socialization with the outside world, at least on an intimate basis. He asked his best friend Dave to help him find a good-looking Scientologist wife, so he would not wind up with another degraded being like his previous two wives…

…During this same trip, Nazanin (the Miscavige chosen Scientologist wife-to-be for Cruise, Nazanin Boniadi) apparently “disrespected” Miscavige in front of Cruise, by seeking to clarify his trademark staccato comments a couple of times. This prompted Cruise to begin showing Nazanin his ugly, “big-being” side.

Tom took her into his home office to give her a “reality adjustment” in front of Tommy Davis, who remained quiet the entire time.

Sitting across from Tom at a wide table – like an employee set down for a tongue-lashing from the boss – Nazanin could hardly believe what she was hearing.

Tom looked at her like a frustrated, overworked executive, let down by a degraded-being underling.

Then he gave her the intense, laser-focus stare.

“You don’t get it. It goes like this,” Tom explained.

He raised his hand above his head, palm downward. “First, there is LRH.”

Moving his hand down a couple of inches, he continued: “Then there is COB (David Miscavige).”

He brought his hand down to his own hairline, highlighting the intensity and seriousness of his words:  “Then there is me.”

Nazanin looked at him stoically, hiding her shock at Cruise’s performance of his best Jack Torrance – the psychotic killer played by Jack Nicholson in the film The Shining.

“Dave and me, we’re big beings. We are surrounded by DB’s (degraded beings). DBs can’t help but try to destroy big beings. That’s just the way it is in this universe. You have to understand this. This is LRH, man. It’s the plight of the big being getting jumped on by all the degraded beings. You gotta be unreasonable to survive around a big being like me. You can’t be weak. You gotta be strong to protect the big being from all the degraded beings.” Cruise slammed his fist on the table, veins popping out of his neck from the intensity of his tirade…

608 responses to ““Then there is me!” – Tom Cruise

  1. Pingback: “Then there is me!” – Tom Cruise | Martyrathbun09's Blog

  2. I am not surprised at this. This man is going to fall hard.

  3. I guess I wasn’t shocked, but it is shocking. Wow.

  4. Felicitas Foster

    It lets one look in astonishment how far a being can be led atray! I feel sorry for eveyone who fell into that trap.

  5. Me thinks Mr. Cruise is in for a reality adjustment.

  6. One Point Won

    Just got your second book on Kindle—thank you—loving it already!

  7. This is the ultimate in EGO! A great demonstration in how far the ego can stray a being! Hope he finds a way to rejoin the human race of oneness.

  8. If ever you thought that Tom Cruise deserved the benefit of the doubt….
    All doubt is now erased. Disgusting.

  9. Holy Crap. The fan is overloaded with brown stuff hitting it. I can hear the screaming all the way from Phoenix.

    ML Tom

  10. Agreed! A real severe one! Can’t wait.

    I’m going to the kitchen to begin on the largest ‘humble pie’ ever made. Those two big beings are going to be needing large quantities of it. Now, as for the ingredients………………….

  11. OMG. Tom has bought onto this hook, line and sinker. I’m hooked too….gonna have to get and read your book!

  12. Damn!!!! I knew this was going to get ugly. And just when I think I have it wrapped, Marty comes up with a new gradient. Thank you for doing so. I can’t wait for your book to arrive.

  13. It makes a lot of sense the way Katie ran away.
    They are mentally ill !

  14. Geeze Marty, another boring post! Can’t you post anything with grit? 🙂

    Thank you for going all the way with this exposure. I know there is more. Please feel free to reveal it all. All

    The world is watching.

  15. This is what happens when a common human being learns and accepts that violence is part of church doctrine.

  16. Seems Tom fell into the hole even harder than most of us. Instead of sending Tom disgust lets all join together and send Tom Love! I am.

  17. OMG, makes me wonder what abuse Katie had to endure? Not surprised that Tom would dramatize DM’s valence as the entirety of Int Mgmt, Mid Mgmt, CL 4 orgs, Missions and even a lot of the public (facebook police) dramatize it greater or lesser degrees.

  18. “It is true, we shall be monsters, cut off from all the world; but on that account we shall be more attached to one another.”
    ― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein

  19. Amen to that one, Max. I’d had my doubts how far Tom Cruise was involved. Now I don’t.

  20. RE TC with him shifting into different valences, You cant help but wonder what his a mind is thinking / mixed thoughts /emotions and doubts.
    If he is not wondering he is not living in the real world. It makes you really think if he is at all recoverable, I would doubt it as long as he maintains connected to DM.

  21. TC=Totally Crazy!

  22. And it must be agreed that they’re clearing the planet by using violence!

  23. I’ve heard on occasion that there is a Facebook page for Indies. How do you get to it?

    Also, Marty, I’ve forwarded your book tidbits to all the local media.

  24. Wow, a truly riveting tale, to be sure.

  25. And this is the stuff NOT from Tom’s sessions!!!

  26. Whole different spin on T.C.s talk with Nazanin had she
    laughed outrageously , slapping her knee and said something like
    “Your acting right ?”

  27. Well maybe Tom Cruise is being attacked and undermined by a Degraded Being — its just the “Big DB” attacking him is David Miscavige. (Equation: DM=DB++).

  28. like

  29. What a thing to say to your girlfriend: “Then there is me!” I never tried that one. LOL what a clown!

  30. Tom Cruise and David Miscavige Big Beings? Don’t think so, try instead “Big Assholes”. Equation: DM + TC = BAHs.

  31. I sincerely hope Bert Fields makes Tom Cruise read the above article. I hope that Bert convinces Tom to completely move away from miscavige and quit dramatizing that God-Awful valence. I hope the two of them quit putting out their inane denials and threats; quit backing up miscavige’s inane denials and threats and turn their attention to the real souce of Tom’s actual problem…how to do a real Treason condition to all the good beings that Tom has harmed while dramatizing daves’ “big being” bullshit.

    Marty, I would guess that you have given Tom ample opportunity to get his shit together. Maybe this will be the revalation he needs to jar himself loose from the hypnotic spell miscavige has sucked him into. Maybe he’ll read Steve’s website and cognite that it is HE, Tom Cruise, who needs to put his own ethics in and do a real A-E for the suppressive acts he’s committed against so many good people.

    Tom Cruise! Get YOUR ethics in.

  32. one of those who see

    Maybe I’m an optimist, but Tom can come out of this. Just like so many of us that went into agreement and aped the suppression, insanity, out of comm-ness of the church in the past. He looks like he has put some distance between himself and the church recently. Maybe that means distance from Miscavige too. I hope so. It will be a lot to confront for him. A lot of stable data lost. Overts to confront. He is f–ing lucky Marty and others are out here to help him pick up the pieces. Tom, we have a funny sort of connection from many years ago-before all of this. I’m betting on you, man. You need to separate Miscavigology from Ron’s Scientology. Then at some point I hope to say hello.

    Ordering your book today, Marty. Thanks for the info.

  33. I’m really taken aback by the revelation that Tom Cruise also physically abused his staff, as David Miscavige has. I’m finally starting to understand why Tom could be so close to someone like Miscavige, birds of a feather and all.

  34. This does not surprise me at all. While watching Tom you could see it, the way he spoke, the way he acted, hell I sure saw it and so did many others because we would talk about it. It was as though DM crawled into Tom and took over!!! I am happy for those who used to be Tom’s wives as now they have found themselves and freedom from a mad man!! Tom tried to fool many with his “social” personality but I would have to ask him…Tom how is that working for you now?”

  35. First, WHO insists they are a Big Being. What desparate need drives someone there. Its actually a pretty good demonstration that the opposite is in fact the case.
    And Poor LRH having these 2 positioning themselves so close to him. One cannot audit and one needs some pretty badly. They are legends allright, but for all the wrong reasons.
    I hope TC has a sense of humor, because he will need to be able to look back and laugh at himself if he is ever going to make it.

  36. plainoldthetan

    Well, Marty, we’ve all given Tom a chance to come clean. What is the sound of the other shoe dropping?

  37. Freedom Fighter

    What … a … PSYCHO! Hey TC, valence shift much?

  38. Mr. Cruise and Mr. McTinyfists are going to be holding hands while being bitch slapped by the degraded beings. What a joke, these two morons.

    Maybe Tom could make a movie called : The night of the living DB!

  39. I need to post a link to this on my FB page. My FB friends know of my interest in CO$ and have said many times…maybe Tom Cruise doesn’t know what’s going, he seems like such a nice guy, he treats everyone on the sets of his movies so nice. While I KNOW inherently, that he is into DM’s evil up to his eyeballs, I don’t have a way to argue my point. This will do it for me…thank you.

  40. heathergraceful

    It does make it difficult to understand how Katie stayed for as long as she did, though.

  41. PS – I read your “open letter to Tom Cruise”…you did warn him, I just had no idea of the extent this “outing” was going to be!

  42. I can only imagine what it must have been like for those who were in the know about Tom’s valence shift to watch him receive the medal of valor that same year. Clearly, he has given reality to the concept of Napoleon complex, much like DM.

  43. Yes Tommy Boy is PTS to COB. Amazing how that S/P COB trained him like a stupid dog. Reminds of the policy LRH wrote called “Why Hatting?” “When a person is secretly afraid of others he instinctively will not hat them or hats them wrongly and tends to transfer or move them about” LRH HCOPL 29 JULY 1971 WHY HATTING?

  44. also begs the question why did TC pick her to begin with?

  45. OMG is right! My thoughts went to Katie, Suri and Nicole as well. Never much of a TC fan, but the last decade or so he has really creeped me out with his very controlling behavior – only getting worse. Makes an outsider like me wonder what Katie & Co. had on him to get a fast settlement. Glad they are all out.

  46. Pingback: “Then there is me!” – Tom Cruise « theosismanides

  47. Miscavige and Cruise deserve each other and no one else. The one good thing that came out of this was because of Cruise’s “SRA” on Nazanine, that relationship dissolved, and thus she saved herself the misery of being a slave to both of these whacko’s..

    Whipping cream
    Two large nuts
    No sugar, honey, or sweetness of any kind.
    Temper shortening

    Use the two nuts to beat the other ingredients vigorously inside a large Hole…
    Wait, seems like I’m forgetting something…

  49. “Then he gave her the intense, laser-focus stare.”


  50. Bitter Defrocked Apostate


  51. This is harrowing stuff. But I’m left wondering, what is Cruise’s state of mind TODAY, with regard to all this Big Being stuff, and toward Miscavige, and the COS in general?

    So many of the recent revelations about Cruise seem to center around the period several years ago when he clearly and publicly went off the deep end. It’s harder to come by reliable personal testimony that speaks to his present thought-world. There are vague reports about his “distancing himself” — but from what or whom, to what extent, for what reasons?

    A lot of people have done some serious re-thinking in recent years, and even in the less-than-10-months since Debbie Cook’s email. Certainly Cruise’s non-COS advisors are aware of the total clusterf*ck that corporate Scientology has become. (Marty has personally done his part to spread this awareness, I believe. I seem to recall a Strongly Worded Letter to Tom’s attorney.)

    So in thinking about Cruise, I’m still puzzled. Is he so messed-up psychically that he’s still able to believe and to act the way he did several years ago? Has some bit of truth begun to penetrate? Does he feel any shame or contrition for the things he’s said and done? Until he gives some definite sign that he’s had a change of heart, I can’t feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt. But I still wonder.

  52. Theo Sismanides

    Hahahaha…. this is a joke…

    After DM of course only TC could take over…!!!

    Is he thinking we are playing Mission Impossible, maybe?

  53. When I read this in the book it was shcoking, but not surprising. The really amazing thing, as you allude to Mrs Libnish, is Marty’s patience in all of this. Tom could have ended the madness 3 years ago when Marty wrote his open letter, and his open letter to Bert Fields. He didn’t. He could not possibly have been unaware of it though. I am guessing this is but a tiny fraction of what Marty COULD have published.

    Tom, mate, it really is now or never. Wake the fuck up man.

  54. This is exactly the same way like lots of SO staffs who are travelling around the world, who some of them we got to know, they are in the same valence than DM and TC, for example Walter Kotric (CO CLO EU) and his “beautiful” wife “Eva Braun”. Both publicly say that the “normal”publics and most of the class 5 Org staffs are DBs. Some of us experienced it live. The illness DM goes into the deepest Europe. It´s our job to stop it.

  55. Shut up! Just shut up! You had me at “You don’t get it.” You had me at “You don’t get it.”

  56. Here are some synonyms for degraded: Corrupted, Debased, Degenerated, Depraved, Wretched.

    Punching, slapping, screaming, explosive vein popping tantrums? That seems pretty degraded to me.

  57. I only have a Nook, Barnes and Noble. What’s the deal? Can’t we somehow get this onto Barnes and Noble’s site for download also?

    I look forward to reading it, as soon as it’s technologically available to Nook!

  58. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hi Marty,
    It must be very gratifying for you, to have gotten your second
    book into print, and in record time (3 1/2 months) on a part time
    basis!! Now that you’re an established author, a future might
    include the label “prolific?” We certainly look forward to that!

    Noting your comments on TC, certainly brings home the harsh
    reality on the issue of implanted behavior as a TOTAL control
    mechanism, even if one takes this particular instigator and the instigated,out of the equation.

    The modus operandi of so many sinister creeps,who have used
    mind control op’s to create their own flocks of sheeple, lay
    strewn back through history. Perp’s names being irrelevant, but
    the carnage and destruction to the lives of those trusting souls
    who bought into their deception, are the victims who deserve to
    be remembered, in a similar tribute to those who perished in
    the 9/11 disaster. They were ALL blissfully unaware (achieved through stealth!)of the evil which awaited them, until too late!

    That TC HAD been similarly overtaken through a most devious
    “master plan” to subvert and “mind control” his actions and
    allegiances, is made quite evident through the detail you have
    provided above.

    Through DMSMH and the Dianetic axioms, which provided the
    basis upon which Ron formulated his early auditing processes,
    we know and understand the almost inexhaustible “power” of
    the reactive mind to obey engramic commands literally, until
    relieved through standard auditing.

    We also know,.that the state of CLEAR &/or OT, can ( under
    “certain conditions”) be invalidated and one CAN be thoroughly
    reindoctrinated/implanted, and thus lay in the foundation of fresh
    reactive material, which will have command value, unless taken
    apart and inspected (as-ised )by the “victim” for it’s aberrative influence!

    Bottom line? Your one time PC–( TC!) needs to get himself
    back into a “clean hands” condition– by getting rid of a shit-
    load of O /W’s, with an auditor capable and prepared to do a
    thorough job of it. I don’t believe he is a “real” sociopath, but
    certainly has acted as / under the the influence of one.

    One simple question for you. Would you be prepared to do
    the job?


  59. Monkey see monkey do!

    I wonder where Jesus would fall on Cruise’s “Being Size Chart”?

    LRH wrote “What is Greatness?”

    Tom’s article would be, “What is Insignificance?”

  60. Got me laffing on that one, tunedal!

  61. Anon-onyourside

    This is horrible, and totally believable. Grandiose Egos the size of DM and TC are capable of anything, and I bet that this brutality is only the tip of the iceberg. I think you just tossed the straw that is going to break the back of the CoS, DM, and…Tom Cruise.

  62. When reading this I got a very nasty feeling of the ‘Untermensch -Uebermensch’ theory of Hitler cum suis. Miscavige and Cruise even found it justified to abuse other people physically because they were untermenschen. I deliberately use the word untermensch to place what is happening here in a wider context: 20th century totalitarism.
    If this kind of lunatics get real power, I would not be surprised if they would start building concentrationcamps! The Hole would then just be the beginning. Any penny given to his organization, is a step closer to the annihilation of all that is human.
    Miscavige and Cruise are neo-nazi’s. Just with different symbols and logo’s. But their pompous buildings have a striking similarity.
    Hitler and Goebbels now in Scientology!

  63. For those of you who may have never seen this…..

  64. Anon-onyourside

    It makes me wonder how abused Tommy Davis is/was, and where he is now?

  65. Tooooooo funny! Thank you for that Tony.

  66. martyrathbun09

    Where: Austin Texas
    How: Loyal to David Miscavige.

  67. Hope this book makes some waves. Should be receiving my copy this next week.

    The “Church” seems oddly silent on this one thus far.

  68. “With me out of the way, Miscavige’s madness was unbridled. He began to tell Tom Cruise tales of having to physically beat the degraded beings in his environment to keep them in line. Cruise followed suit, doing the same to his own staff. Michael Doven, his long-time personal assistant, started receiving regular physical abuse from Tom. Another of Tom’s staff – a woman – was grabbed and slammed up against a file cabinet by Cruise for failing to show him proper respect. He railed and screamed, like Miscavige, when he discovered a near-microscopic chip in a drinking glass handed to him by one of his staff. He was convinced the degraded beings were steadily sabotaging him, stalking him like the zombies from Night of the Living Dead. Tom even physically abused the one-time international spokesperson for Scientology, one Tommy Davis.”

    And to think, that I was occasionally rubbing elbows with TC during that period, and never saw or heard a whisper of that psychotic behavior. Of course, it was in the context of social settings, where someone who was committing those kinds of overts within his personal circle would never act out like that in public.

    I will say, though, that I did observe an uneasiness about him on those occasions. I don’t think I ever once saw him smile, and he hardly spoke a word to any of the other people in our gatherings. Folks gave him his space, and gave him the opportunity to interact like any other person in the activity, but he stayed pretty stand-off-ish. Now I understand why. Had I known he thought we were all a bunch of low life DBs, I wouldn’t have given him the time of day.

  69. constant vigilance

    One of the many things that sickens me is that people from the SO and church who saw and experienced first hand DM’s insanity and cruelty, are not talking. Why? Because the midget bought them off with huge payouts for gag orders. Tommy Davis is lightly brushed over in the chapter I just read on line of Marty’s book. THIS is where your IAS donations go! And why not make it more pronounced and stressed in your postings and book so that those who are non-Scientologists can understand how big this payout and gag order thing is and how deep it goes.

    And it isn’t just with the high profile people like Debbie Cook and Tommy Davis, etc. I had an ex-SO friend who had been in the hole at int and when he left, he also had to sign a gag order. He won’t go into the details of it with me though (per the gag order). The great whistle blower, Hy Levy, told me that only the people who saw the atrocities at the highest level, at Int in Hemmet, in the Hole etc, only those were given large sums of money for gag orders. The rank and file such as himself who didn’t first-hand witness DM’s sadistic cruelty and insanity were given no large sums to keep quiet, but they were told to keep quiet nevertheless. Thank God Hy and Marty and Mike and Karen and Steve and many others refused to be bought off and threatened!

  70. I have been doing some proofreading on the INDEPENDENCE tab above that I compiled for Marty. I have corrected some typo’s, etc. Also the 2nd time going thru the blog, I did it much more slowly and found that I had omitted a few announcements (my sincere apologies, you have been added to the list and it should be updated shortly – only Marty can update his blog and as you can imagine he is a very (undl) man)!

    Please help me out here, if you find an error on your posting, please email me so I can get it fixed. Also some of you didn’t mention your training/admin/auditing experience in your declaration, please let me know what I should add and/or any notable accolades about you such as Master of Qual, etc, don’t be shy, it’s a PR world.

    Finally, some of you announced your Independence in the comments section on the blog, due to the time involved, I cannot read thru all the comments to find you, so please email me and let me know what blog posting you commented on so I can find it.

    Thank you for your help, Betsy

  71. They can not sue anymore.


  72. tc, get the hell out of your black mental hole.

  73. threefeetback


  74. martyrathbun09

    A book that I have had on my recommended reading list for more than a year, that I recommended on my book WIWWS, and that Steve Hall is now promoting heavily – The Sociopath Next Door – will fully (in my view) answer the apparent contradiction.

  75. I feel compelled to add a point of view here regarding man’s tendency to create and dramatize an elitist point of view.
    As we have all observed throughout human history that when you have a ruling regime that supposes there are “bigger beings”, God’s chosen, the privileged, the “upstats”, the “more evolved” – you have disaster. Here you have the ability to create the illusion of value vs. no value, importance vs. no importance, theta vs. mest.
    It is easy to sell, as it feeds the ego of those who want to “be right”, and wield their power to control. It promotes dominance through an “us vs. them” competitive mentality. And it also fosters a “no sympathy” attitude towards others.
    This mentality has always disgusted me whether in Nazi Germany, human slavery, malignant corporate greed, the on-going holocaust of factory farming or the “church” of Scientology’s propoganda that “we” are the only one’s who “really” have a clue, it is a recipe for disaster and suppression of the most heinous variety.
    Obviously there are millions of other examples in varying degrees but what Marty has illustrated here, in my opinion, is THE key ingredient to breeding the worst evil. This is the seed that destroys utterly. This is individuation. This is something to ponder very carefully at this moment in American history…

  76. Anon-onyourside

    Then he must be a self-flagellating fool who has no shame. The time for cults and free reign for abusers like DM and TM, is clearly over. This blog, and your other writings, are being talked about in other forums, and they are giving courage to individuals to break free of similar abusive situations.

  77. martyrathbun09

    Well put, Joy. Thank you.

  78. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hello Les,
    I agree with your posting in every detail.
    And I refuse to become part of the throng of TC bashers
    any more than I would, against people who also followed
    the orders and implanted behavior of the “master of
    mind-control”–one david miscavige. For the most part,
    those “bashers” should recognize the offensive “coat”
    being “worn” as the synthetic personality it is.

    If we do not accept that all persons who have acted
    savagely, without compassion, while under the spell and
    influence of miscavige, did so without the hindsight and
    awareness we enjoy today, with the advent of Marty’s &
    Steve’s blogs. Then i feel we are just being hypocrites!

    Please, It takes a lot of confront and a willingness to
    admit one was wrong, for being so gullible! But dammit,
    so necessary to allowing one to face one’s own demons
    and allow one to move out of the darkness and into the
    sunshine! Standard Auditing permits this to occur.

    Where would we be if we were only judged and found
    guilty, then sentenced, without an opportunity to respond to actual charges/accusations made against us?
    Back to the DARK ages it seems!

    I like to believe we have moved above that mind set,
    failing which, how can we expect to move on up higher?
    Or more importantly, grant others the space/opportunity
    to do the same.

    I always appreciate your nitty gritty postings, and the
    wonderful success stories from your pc’s. You always
    manage to hold resolute to your purpose, and that is so heartening to see!

    Thanks, Calvin.


  79. Indie-saurus-rex

    I agree about Tom acting in a disgusting manner, however I need to remind myself that people will act in all sorts of despicable manners when under the influence of a SP – never mind a massive SP like David Miscavige. I feel disappointed in finding out that Tom is ‘that deep’ but I’m not sure what I expected, after all, he was groomed through his entire Bridge by Miscavige. He’s been PTS the whole time – totally mangled.

    Unless of course TC happens to be a SP as well, but I doubt that as DM would have seen fit to have him destroyed if that were the case.

  80. Thanks.

  81. oh Marty. you so funny. if only Davy was out of the picture…scientology would work? no..Marty. the “tech” is fake. it doesn’t work. your insane. get help.

  82. Tom Gallagher


    About two years ago my older brother was up in the states visiting from his home in the US virgin islands. I had shown him your web site which prompted him to comment about a young beautiful lady he had recently met at one of those beach-side cafes where he was working.

    He relayed that she talked to him about having to decompress from the insanity of having worked for Tom Cruise in the LA area. She had just quit his employ.

    Now I’m wondering if she handed him the chipped drinking glass……..

  83. Indie-saurus-rex

    Hi Chuck,

    I know it’s not optimum but you can purchase it as a Kindle download and do one of two things:

    1. Convert it to a .pdf or whatever format Nooks use (.mobi???). There a several free programs available on the internet.

    2. Purchase the Kindle version and download the Kindle app for your computer. Not the best situation to read it on your computer screen but the book is only 90 pages long.

  84. Pingback: “Then there is me!” – Tom Cruise « 31 Factors

  85. L. Ron Hubbard was right when he stated that false data and justifications can preceed overts ( = bad deeds ).

    Here the false data and justifications ( “having to physically beat the degraded beings in his environment to keep them in line” ) came right from Miscavige. And Tom swallowed them – hook, line and sinker.

    No doubt that this stuff about Cruise will make the day for some gossip journalists all around the globe.

  86. Gern Gaschoen

    This line was being propagated – LRH, then COB, then .. TC .. – in the 90’s, within Int management. COB saved Scientology, was given its reigns by LRH himself, and so on. Nothing from LRH on it, of course, but ‘everyone knows there are secret advices you have to follow but never discuss’. Secrets, secrets. The Church has got too many secrets.

    I don’t know why, but an awful lot of people had to have been opp-term’ing with COB’s entheta in order for his operation to have persisted as well as it did, in face of LRH’s very explicity policy advice to the contrary. It astounds me, but of course the answer is there all along – Tom Cruise, outside of Scientology, is already definitely a cult figure. Within the Church, he’s exactly who should be kept away from management lines, particularly since Clear Cannibal rules apply with regards to the whole MassMediaCult/RealOutTechCult dilemna, which is to say, if we’re recruting Cult-like people into the upper ranks (TC, et al., are a pure cult product of MassMedia, Inc.) of our Church, its no surprise when they clear-cannibal their way into continued such-as behaviour ..

    Well .. in context of TC’s implosion and the inevitable doom of COB and those who support his janky nuthouse, I think the iScientology movement has to front a PR caper against the existing staff – not just COB – that shakes them from their stupor, somehow, and gets some of them to wear their damnable hats. I’d love for whoever thinks they’ve got IJC under control to start getting bombarded with iGoldenrods for filing, for example. iKR’s and iCSW’s too, of course ..

  87. Theo Sismanides

    Hahaha, yes Eva Braun… actually Walter is missing the mustache…

    Now on a more serious side this guy is being implanted every time he goes to Int. He came back with a shitload of insults, invalidations, new ideas how to introvert the staff, calling them names and all the time cursing… He ordered me to bake black bread for him at the CLO… as I was insisting on HCOBs, hahaha!!! He was such a clown. All big words and big action… but when the shit hit the fan he would go under DM’s pants (I would say skirt… but that would be too much, I guess).

    In any case both of them had this fixated glare like implanted beings. That’s now interesting, I mean it… I am very suspicious of what was happening to Kotric every time he went uplines. He would come back as a robot.

  88. Hi Bob,

    The group has 239 members (and growing) as of this moment. It is a closed group so that only other members can see what is posted and commented on there.

    If you want to join the group, click on “Join Group” on the upper right of the page. Karry Campbell, who is the Administrator of the group will receive your request. She will then send you the Group Guidelines. If you agree to the Guidelines, she will add you to the group. You will then be welcomed into the group by other members, can post to the group, comment on posts by others, and communicate with other group members on the group forum or by private message.

    It’s a great group and we have a lot of fun there communicating ideas, news and wins of interest to the Indie Scientologist community.

    It’s a private forum that’s just for us. Fun!

  89. fcdcclassof74

    Did someone say contagion of aberration? The closer T-boy gets to the s*** pile the more he reeks of SPoiled Cabbige. Itsa good thing the execs who have made it out had reduced their exposure. Its like radiation you can get burned. ARC Bill Dupree

  90. Theo Sismanides

    Hahaha, good one Tony! Thanks

  91. Oh yea, I’m completely sick now. Disgusting. Truly.

  92. What do we have here? A paranoid psychopath who thinks he is a Uebermensch and therefore has the ‘responsibility’ to punish and even exterminate the Untermenschen who are trying to get him. His name is Miscavige. And that is his ideology, a misconstruction of Scientology.
    He is assisted by some ‘mitmachers’ (hangers on), of whom Cruise is the most known en powerful. They have their own delusions of grandeur: they want to be part of it.
    The Sea-org members who execute his orders, are like Eichmann, the bureaucrats, who blindly do what the master has ordered. They have lost their ‘common sense’ als a result of years and years of indoctrination (punishment, enforced confessionals etc.).
    Leaning on Hannah Arendt of course, this explains how Corporate Scientology operates. It’s an evil machine.
    What is this criminal organization doing to ordinary people? It destroys their ‘common sense’ – they cannot think or make sound judgements anymore. And so they become executioners for Miscavige, like Eichmann and the like for Hitler (on another scale and in another context of course, but the mechanism is the same.)
    Corporate Scientology destroys your common sense. That’s how you become a mit-arbeiter in Miscavige’s great plan with degraded beings, me and you.

  93. non-scientologist

    For DM this could be a nazcatatrophe.

  94. Never trust a spiritual leader that can not dance.

  95. Some quotes from the tao the king:

    here is no greater disaster than to underestimate your enemy.
    If I did that, I would lose my 3 treasures (benevolence, frugality, never trying to be number one)
    In combat, the most reticent side will win.

    and then:

    He who stands on tiptoe is not steady.
    He who strides cannot maintain the pace.
    He who makes a show is not enlightened.
    He who is self-righteous is not respected.
    He who boasts achieves nothing.
    He who brags will not endure.
    According to followers of the Tao, “These are extra food and unnecessary luggage.”
    They do not bring happiness.
    therefore followers of the Tao avoid them.

    And then :

    Rule a nation with justice.
    Wage war with surprise moves.
    Become master of the universe without striving.
    How do I know that this is so?
    Because of this!
    The more laws and restrictions there are,
    The poorer people become.
    The sharper men’s weapons,
    The more trouble in the land.
    The more ingenious and clever men are,
    The more strange things happen.
    The more rules and regulations,
    The more thieves and robbers.

    You are a good man, Marty 🙂

  96. How did that nut David Miscavige end up running the Church of Scientology .
    Maybe he needs psychiatric treatment !

  97. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    “As we have all observed throughout human history that when you have a ruling regime that supposes there are “bigger beings”, God’s chosen, the privileged, the “upstats”, the “more evolved” – you have disaster”

    Your comment should be added to KSW. There LRH forgets about all those people he mentioned in his first books and says that he rised above the bank, while mankind never created decent things re.the mind. So part of this mindset also started there !

  98. Dear Theo, we can see you really know him very well. : ) “He would come back as a robot”, that´s exactly what we experienced.

  99. Thanks, Marty. I recently picked up “The Sociopath Next Door”, on Steve’s recommendation. Gotta find a quiet evening to crack it open. I hope that it helps to explain some of my mixed observations of TC. It’s only fair that I mention that I also observed him displaying real care and compassion at times.

    Like others have said, TC needs what lots of others have, which is some destim time away from the cult, and the help of a capable auditor. If the revelations in this chapter of your book don’t wake him up to that, then I don’t know. The boy may be beyond reach. I hope not.

  100. Theo Sismanides

    Joy, something does not make sense here. The higher you go, the more Affinity you do have…. I think there is something on technical lines (apart from the OT levels, which I have not done, so I cannot speak about) that needs serious correction. And it’s so basic. The humble technology of wordclearing, in my opinion is completely neglected. I cannot perceive of real actual OTs with a low level of affinity. They are not OTs period. Something was done wrong. Sorry… this is by the book…. Tone Scale in the Fullest…. What is going on probably on this Planet is that people quickie things. Skipped gradients. The only one who came over and put those missing gradients there was Ron. How did he do it? Well… he could go down to Symbols and decipher them and see phenomena and understand them and put it down in words. So, getting the actual EP is not so easy really. Besides there is the education factor, a Cleared Cannibal. Anyway, all this went bad with Miscavige who doesn’t have a clue about the niceties of words I bet and how nice it is to fully understand something indeed. Whereas LRH, did!!!!

  101. …abusers like DM and TM

    Tom Miscavige? Was that a freudian slip, or…..? 😉

  102. Tessa,
    I, being of German origin, have such thoughts frequently.

    My favorite quote is Hanna Ahrendt’s “nobody has the right to obey”.

    A basic lesson to all Co$ members – just as important as the 10 points of “keeping Scientology working”.

  103. Very well said Joy and you couldn’t be more right. If ever there has been a class system created it is with the various classes in Scientology. People actually identify themselves by class. “I’m am OT3, I’m a Class ____. I was the Int Base blah blah.” That said, in all fairness, since I have always been “low classed or no classed” in all of this theater, you take a look at the technology that came out of the 1950’s and tell me how much of it you see among us today. Dianetics will always work. But the reformation was a long time coming. And in all fairness to Hubbard, L12 handles the conflict of opposition terminals and the “us vs them” that is abberated. There is a wide difference between competition and op terming. In this reformation, along the lines of tech, my hope with the tech is that L’s technology, which is on the brink of distinction, and which Miscavige has run the biggest can’t have on, is resurrected and made possible not just for the “elitists” of this movement. But for everyone. If someone took this tech into the prison systems right now it would be a simple matter to handle crime on this planet. The L’s have been one of the most elementary auditing cycles but the most beneficial I have had. Because it was technology only given to the Gods, (the class Xll’s) and made affordable to only the elite, (those that could afford 2500.00 an hour in the Church to sit before a God) is no reason to see it that way in the future. If the L’s had been made affordable and made available at class lV Orgs when they first got put together, we would be looking at a whole different Scientology today. They should have been put right down there at the beginning and made available to everyone along with Dianetics. I found it was much easier to run an L’s session than a Dianetics chain. The L’s auditing is like wind sailing after Dianetics. These social monsters that came out of the womb of Scientology, David Miscavige and Tom Cruise and countless others beating their best and only friends bloody at the Int Base, this is obviously a marketing error. I don’t how else to put it. I never, ever, saw a Sea Org member even HOPE to get this processing. Or any other processing frankly unless it was a sec check. David Miscavige MADE SURE to create a system that would KEEP OTHERS DOWN and he did this intentionally. If you don’t like the company you keep, you have to lift them UP. You don’t suppress the hell out of them and then complain that they seem suppressed. David is a social monster that has created other social monsters. I think with any social reform, there needs to be a tech reform. This isn’t the 1950’s. But we can take a lot of good from this time period and make it work for the betterment of most. There is a solution for the aberrational cycle you describe above.

  104. Oh look….a new kitty toy!

  105. “your insane. get help.”

    This is the kind of insanity that bleeds through the halls of the current Scientology Inc. Invalidate then encourage. Knock down, help up. Push down pull up. It is the mentality of a conflicted person that can’t figure out whether to put a bullet or place a band aid on someone.

    Bang! Oh sorry, that way to the hospital, right at the first light.

    It’s just where some people go under pressure when trying to be right.

  106. He did not forget about all of the people. He made a Bridge for all to cross. He said “we will not speculate HERE on why this is so or HOW I came to rise above the bank..” You should find your mu’s and not parapharse the man. He explained it all on the Bridge about the how and why on the Clearing Course R6EW and so on. That is why he did not go into the why and so forth at that particular time of writing a specific policy. Get it right!

  107. Jail or shooting him would be better.

  108. Tony — this is funny.

    The original is hilarious!

  109. Hey! People! It is right in front of you! Mitt Romney points out the 47% that are not big beings!

    “And so my job is not to worry about those people—I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

    Just saying…..

  110. Chuck, just order it from Barnes and Noble and they will send you
    the book in a few days. Very easy and service oriented. The more
    of us doing it might just get the book up on their shelves.

  111. The depravity of these two knows no limits or boundaries!
    Reading your post, Joy, reminded me of the LRH line from the training film “The Auditor’s Code” where he says ” When the ruling class becomes too different from the ruled, revolution occurs…” (may not be exact verbiage).
    And so it did….
    LRH also said something about man’s inhumanities to man resulting from exclusion. (I think it was in the OEC.) These two have made a career of not only violating these principles but also driving in the reverse application of them. Remember TC’s video – “We are the only ones who can do anything about it…” His whole flow on the video was how he and DM were the “only ones”. For starters, this is simply not true and it is disgusting and revolting to any social personality. So, I have no sympathy or compassion for TC for the blowback he gets from this. Do I think he’s an SP? No. But he does need to make up serious damages for the people who have been harmed by his
    suppressive actions.
    P.S: Could anyone do some fundraising and pass out a couple of TWTH booklets to these two? Oh, wait a second, they’re not degraded beings,
    send them the leatherbound copies!

  112. cv — your friend has it right. The only ones who get the big bucks are the ones that have witnessed Miscavige insanity first hand.

    But the reason they don’t speak up is not in fact the gag agreement — as they are pretty much worthless — but because they are still drinking the KoolAid. They still believe in the “power” of Miscavige and his cult (and that is really the only power he has, that people believe he can control their lives).

    If any of those people came to their senses, there are a lot of people who would help them to avoid any threatened consequences by the RCS. And boy would they feel better….

  113. The concept of “otherness” – of not being alike – is the entrance to many evils. Status, hostility, invalidation, evaluation as can be seen by the example above. Without this concept these evils cannot take place.

  114. In order to stay big, a truly bigger being would have to be pretty benevolent. One can claw one’s way to the top by being a ruthless asshole – but only in the MEST universe.

  115. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    You’re forgetting a can of whoopass!

  116. Anon-onyourside

    That is funny! Thank you for finding the typo! Hmmm, was it Freudian ………?

  117. You will need a very large crow.

  118. At first I thought this excerpt was some sort of satire. Then I came to understanding that this is a description of real events.

    My reaction? OMG — no f-ing way!

    TC is completely in the valence of DM, who is himself probably psychotic by any measure — Scientology or mainstream society.

    I don’t see salvation in the works for TC or DM. That’s because they are both blocked by this absurd misunderstanding that being rational = being “reasonable” (in the pejorative sense) = being weak. They are, in fact, as A=A=A as you can get.

  119. I am different. I always knew that I am special. I knew that my case is different. I have always felt that I am not like the others. Out of communication. Out of affinity. Out of reality. Ah yes, my reality is different. Far above that of average people. What is the other side of understanding. I think is is „Oblivion“. „the fact or condition of forgetting or having forgotten“. Synonyms: forgetfulness, nirvana!
    The barriers of sanity: out of communication, what I think is reality.
    As a child I had some problems and in order to find out more about it I did dive into the dark sides of my mind. During that trip I found out quite a lot about insanity. I had no fear being insane. I knew that I can go back into reality. I guess I made it.
    I can tell you one experience: if those diving into insanity do not wish to be sane no one can help them out. Looks like that David and Tom had choosen their way.
    May they never come back.

  120. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    “Big being” in the handmade elevator shoes, paid for by the sheeple. Gotta love that.

  121. Thanks for that perspective, Calvin. It is generous and empathetic, and in the end, the right way to go. None of us rational beings do something bad on purpose. We do however make bad decisions and act badly based on poor understanding, training, education, etc.

    From my view, this chunk of new info on TC was shocking because I really did not think that TC was that far gone. However, given things like his Oprah couch episode, Matt Lauer episode, YouTube video on KSW and SPs, etc., none of us should be surprised.

    TC in short exhibits all the signs of a true-believing cult member. Whatever Scientology emerges as in the future, it has to once and for all shed every vestige and inclination toward cult-ism. Instead of Hubbard being de facto assumed right on everything, recognize that he was wrong on some things and lacking in knowledge on others. Instead of disparaging the “wog” world (the vary phrase is an assault in human rights and respect — refer it to the CCHR?), respect the knowledge and wisdom of all humans. Instead of eschewing science and research, open up Scientology to critical analysis and research where the claims merge into the medical or scientific.

    In short, TC and DM are prime examples for study of what can happen to powerful, egotistical, true believers, in a rich and powerful cult. A cautionary tale if there ever was one.

  122. Well I see only people that support money is allowed into that group. I got denied because I am for the resource based economy.

    Yet others are in the group that are for the resource based economy and a few does other bridges as well.

    I can only guess because I am not for money is why. It shows the indies carry on the disconnections and one can’t think for self or learn or read anything else. ONly some can and are allowed to.

    Marty when or who ever reads this is true. I am not allowed on the Indie group because I am for the resource based economy and I know you have others in the group that is for it as well. So why am I being barred. This is to me still church think and behavior.

  123. Amen.

  124. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    Sorry Jay but I don’t get it and your interpretation doesn’t help. I understand 1-10 and examples of it .
    But the figure 0f 20 to 100 000 never made any sense to me. Only 20 ideas were good and 99980 ideas were destructive !

    ” But it
    remains that if in its formative stages it was not discovered by a group, then
    group efforts, one can safely assume, will not add to it or successfully alter
    it in the future”
    I don’t believe that neither !
    This lead to the situation we have ! No Scientologists dares to think as only Ron can develop Technology !
    Scientology can’t stay static it has to evolve !

  125. martyrathbun09

    Hey Dave, nice to hear from you 🙂

  126. Probably one of the hardest things there is to as-is for oneself is a service facsimile. And it sure sounds to be like Tom is acting out a great big one.

  127. Tony, when you can categorize Nicole Kidman as a DB or an SP, anything is possible! She plays with the big boys!

  128. I don’t know what your talking about. You’ll have to be more specific. The Group Guidelines don’t say anything about a persons thoughts on economics or politics. And those things are not what the group is for. I can’t imagine that Karry would exclude you on the basis of your economic philosophy. If she did exclude you, it must have been for some other reason.

    Please message her again with your concern if you feel you were incorrectly excluded from membership in the group.

    Here are the Group Guidelines in case you didn’t get them:

    Indie Scientologist Group Guidelines
    By Karry Campbell in Indie Scientologist

    Indie Scientologist Group Guidelines

    Independent Scientologists are Scientologists who recognize that the current Church of Scientology management is out-ethics, out-tech and off policy and is thus losing the technology of Dianetics and Scientology.

    Indie Scientologists have declared Independence from the Church of Scientology and wish to freely practice our faith without harassment.

    We are not here to smear L. Ron Hubbard. LRH put together the workable technology that is Scientology. Other groups, sites and blogs are free to voice their opinions on such. I don’t want to be a part of that kind of group. Here, I like to help others. Stating facts are fine. Questions are fine and welcome.

    In this, understand that this is an Indie SCIENTOLOGY group. The definition of the group is in the name. The source of Scientology is LRH and Scientology is the technology that we like to use in our daily lives. Yes, LRH was far from perfect – as we all are – but he also produced lots of stellar and usable stuff! Why carp on his personal foibles?

    Anyone persistently advocating anything other than strict adherence to the 10 points of HCO PL 7 February 1965, Keeping Scientology Working Series 1 – by L. Ron Hubbard shall ultimately be removed from the group as an Ethics Gradient. Examples would include: Promoting Out Tech, promoting any auditor that does over the phone or Skype auditing, anything about auditing above OTVIII, the Ron’s Org Bridge, etc., etc…

    Should a person so removed later wish to rejoin the group they may do so after they have shown and proven that they can be advocates for the 10 points of Keeping Scientology Working – by L. Ron Hubbard.

    We advocate “Knowing How to Know” and respect those informing themselves on and applying the techniques of other subjects. So don’t disrespect those of us here who are Scientologists and prefer to use the tech developed by L. Ron Hubbard by calling what you do, Scientology.

    That being said, henceforth those that are not On Source and In Tech are not welcome to post anything they want to here. If you’re not sure what On Source or In Tech is, FIND OUT! In order to maintain the integrity of our group (Indie Scientologist) – we cannot allow it to become a procurement area for PC’s or students for “squirrel groups”. These groups condone and in many cases, deliver “tech” not authored or authorized by L. Ron Hubbard. If you want to do that, fine. Just do it somewhere else.

    Posting quotes, policies, etc. that are 100% LRH are completely welcome.

    I will not stand for any attacks on Mark “Marty” Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Steve Hall or anyone who is fighting the good fight like them. They are doing what is right. If you have a problem or disagreement with them or what they do you need to take it up them or somewhere else and take yourself off of this group’s list. You’ll not be welcome here.

    Also, do not lead others to look at entheta sites via this forum. If you are getting out of Non-E, you may quote what you wrote or talk to the person one on one via their message option. Directing others to anti-LRH or anti-Scientology sites is not our purpose.

    This group is primarily for Independent Scientologists. If you are not an Independent Scientologist but agree with our views then you can join this group to support us. If you wish only to criticize Scientology or LRH, please take yourself off of the group list.

    Those who persist in flouting the guidelines predicated here will be removed involuntarily.

    To maintain decorum, discussions should also be largely free from ridicule and name calling. PMing others to talk to them is preferred to resolve any personal issue.

    All kinds are welcome here, and you can believe what you want, but asking weird questions alluding to Black PR of the old man or being an LRH critic is unappreciated. Realize that this is not an “EX SCN” board or group.

    This group is a place to meet friends (old and new) who you know will respect you and LRH. You can even coordinate activities, i.e. – like what Christie is doing.

    Also, please wear your “Security Hat”. Since this is a closed group and we do not want our security to be violated or betrayed, I’m asking that no one inappropriately disseminate or “cut and paste” any posts that appear within this forum to anyone else. If you need someone to read an Indie Scientologist post or if you want to inform others about this group, the person may join the group by requesting to join like everyone else did.

    Also, PLEASE make sure that any posts from the Indie Scientologist group are blocked on your main Facebook page. This will further keep our group unsullied by outside influences.

    Finally, do not bring Dev-T to this group – meaning: “unusual and unnecessary traffic”. In LRH’s (HCO PL 2 Jul 59 II) “Developed Traffic, The Delirium Tremens of Central Orgs” this concept is stated perfectly – “You are manufacturing new traffic because you aren’t handling old traffic. Developed traffic does not mean usual and necessary traffic. It means unusual and unnecessary traffic.”

    Love, Karry Campbell

  129. iTom Gallagher

    I doubt this other small man (cruize) has even read ‘Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health’.

    Otherwise, he’d have spotted himself. Sad, but true

  130. Uncontrolable laughter!

  131. Tommy Davis is personal property of “COB”.

  132. We in RTC have declared Marty’s new book strictly OFF LIMITS for all Scientologists: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2012/10/14/banned-new-book-attacking-cob-rtc-david-miscavige-and-tom-cruise/

    On happier news, COB RTC David Miscavige had a bright idea on how to bring in a bumper crop of new Sea Org recruits: http://otviiiisgrrr8.com/2012/10/14/purchasing-north-korean-children-for-the-sea-org/

    All things considered, 2012 has been a stellar year for the Church of Scientology. We are presently finalizing plans to open the Super Power Building.

    Due to COB’s decision to enhance all of the wainscoting in the building with gold leaf, the opening date of the Super Power Building has been pushed back slightly to November 18, 2022.

  133. burnedbutnotbitter

    Thank you for this remark-it occurred to me also

  134. Like! I’ll have whatever you have been having, beloved Oracle. 🙂

  135. Hi;

    I clicked!

    Looking forward to playing with you all.

  136. Funny!!!

  137. iTom Gallagher

    Then again he, Tom Cruiser, isn’t a degraded being like the other 98 1/2% of us earthlings. Ha!

  138. Regarding the L’s:
    I’m OT VIII for 8+ years now. I did the Ls after going Clear end of the 80s.
    At that time I thought the Ls were the be all/end all of auditing for me. I came to realize after a year or two that they were not. YES, they are power boosters! I raved about the Ls for years.

    But, I also had the benefit of auditing on Solo NOTS. I could say I looked for something to really bite for years (since doing the Ls) and it was Solo NOTS that had that bite. I realized while on Solo NOTS that I was now handling what was bypassed by the Ls to give such tremendous gain.

    Marty and I have voiced a similar reality on that area with the Ls.

    As for the Ls handling what you propose – that’s subjective. I’ve seen too many Ls completions who also seem to possess ethics blind spots, are deeply drinking the Kool-aid, etc.

  139. He doesn’t think much of another 52% either. He just can’t say so because he’s playing a slightly different ‘domination game’ than Miscavige.

  140. LOL VERY FUNNy!

  141. Of course it does not make any sense to you.Playing the “i don’t believe it” game has been around as long as man has. I am not there to properlu word clear you on the subject. I just have your opinion which is weak at best. If you have better technology then go and write a book, start a group and we’ll see how far you get. Good luck.

  142. Excellent response Theo and so TRUE!

  143. This makes obvious sense.
    A list of those gagged Kool-Aid drinkers with their last post at INT published would immediately shed additional guilt on DM.
    Just sayin’….

  144. Indeed dixi88. The greatest good. So what if one poor fool or dissenter, or enemy is crushed painfully. Think of the millions that will be saved by my singular violence: evil in the highest sense. A recipe for karmic woop ass! Self created, of course.

    Fascist and totalitarian.

  145. Marty. Absolutely top of the line revelations.
    Here is the video of Tom’s adulation of David Miscavige. here’s where Tom Cruise asserts he has met “all the world Leaders” and that Miscavige is the BEST ! And that we are lucky to have him ! :::::ahem::::::

  146. Hoy iRoger,
    You might be mixing 2 things up here.
    Able to think for yourself is one thing. Most Scientologists do in or outside the Co$ whether you believe it or not except that those in the Co$ are stuck in fear to “command intention” and being sheeples on the verbal data from DM&Co.
    I don’t know what your training level is but when you see -while training-, especially on the BC, how much work LRH put into the wording of processes and commands, changing, honing them to highest efficiency for ALL cases I wouldn’t give 2 cents about what you are inventing and calling ‘Technology’.
    Besides, Scientology has evolved tremendously especially with the Internet. Look at what your Indie brethren and sisters are doing. That IS Scientology!

  147. Ronnie

  148. I’m following this blog for quite a while now and I absolutely admire you guys for your bravery to speak out against the insanity of CoS Inc. I’ve been reading a lot about CoS Inc. in the Internet – and I was blown away. And I saw the interviews with TD on Youtube and I felt utterly terrible for that guy. Can’t say why, but I always had a feeling that there’s something clearly wrong. Not the lying. The self-abandonment. It was scary.

    Wasn’t he once something like a best friend for TC? If it is true that TC physically abused TD, then he could rot in hell. Not to mention all the other abuses (NB, Sea Org slaves etc.). I don’t care for Cruise anymore. I’ll never go and see a movie he’s in again. What a despicable thing to do to raise your hand against a person who always stood loyal at your side. It’s the greatest betrayal. What kind of friend behaves like this? Disgusting.

    So… if TD never speaks out he’ll be stigmatized as a victim for the rest of his life. He ist fourty years now. Old enough to take responsibility of his former actions. Young enough to start a new life without the emotional baggage of the old.

  149. Its funny how these 2 great warriors never seem to go ballistic in a biker bar
    In the movie “The Third Man” the western writer Holly Martens (Joseph Cotton)is never able to confront the evil nature of his old friend Harry Lime
    (played by Orson Wells)
    The first 3/4 of the movie shows Holly going through various stages
    of denial until he is taken to the Children’s hospital to see the real
    effects of “stepped on” penicillin. Here’s an earlier scene with Orson Wells
    revealing the nature of the psychopath. Great movie and maybe some
    insight into TC.

  150. Neither DM or TC appear to me to be big beings (whatever the hell a big being is) but based on Ron’s 18 to 1 ratio it would seem inevitable that big beings would be surrounded by degraded beings. The big being versus degraded beings concept is another in a long list of Scientology labels I do not care for. IMHO such labels are easily misused and abused.

  151. Jethro Bodine

    Good point. Scientologists always touted their case and training levels, but Scientology today is VERY status oriented and elitist:

    “I’m an OT 3 and am surrounded by degraded beings.”

    “I’m a Class 8 auditor and am the only who can duplicate Ron.”

    “I’m a Sea Org member and am 3 feet behind the head of the wog world.”

    “I’m a Key to Life graduate and belong to an elite group of beings who can communicate.”

    “I’m a Patron Meritorius with Honors. Exclaibur”

    “I’m a Super Power Key Contributor.”

    “I’m a Burrito Supreme.”

    “I’m Tom Cruise and a Big Being, and I’m the only who can help at the scene of an accident.”

  152. I think the Church feeds this weakness or GPM or whatever it is. It’s something I recognized and got rid of from myself when I left the Church.
    It is something that I feel is one of if not the main thing making life hell for many people on this planet. it makes wars and all kinds of other insanity possible. David Miscavige and the Church are steeped in it. Scientology events are full of it.

  153. What is interesting is big movie stars can seem inhumanly more perfect than then the rest of us and there was a time back with Hedda Hopper and the like who could control them with knowing their dark secrets that proved that they are indeed very human. It is looser now. There is a section in some tabloid mag that shows celebrities being human with the title”they’re just like us”
    People like TC are indeed very real people in a very unreal world.

  154. Very well written. The BC is an incredible course if don fully and understood.

  155. OSA, I’m sure you laughed at that one!

  156. Perhaps it was a self-congratulating asshole convention…

  157. Prasie be ! We have time to regroup. LMAO

  158. Right on, Bob.

    Karry said she has 16 new requests today but she’ll get to you soon!

  159. We’re gonna substitute crow for roadkill BUZZARD……….and use those two large nuts in John Does directions above to beat it into the Hole.

  160. As above, from the Tao Te Ching – by Lao Tzu – chapter 57:

    “The more laws and restrictions there are,
    The poorer people become.”

    From Frank Zappa: “The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.”


  161. I could not watch that vomit again. What audacity those two criminals have. And how embarrassing to have been one of the clubbed seals during that time. Good fucking riddance fellas.

  162. We have all been there.

  163. TC 2004

    TC 1 month ago

    TC’s future

  164. Yes, but her poor little kid has to have contact with that nutbag every day. Scary for them if DM has all that creepy influence with TC

  165. Spot on Ronnie!!!!!!!!! LMAO

  166. burnedbutnotbitter

    Everytime I’ve put my attention on Katie Holmes, I get 3 words- “Creepy Uncle Davey”. We could start referring to him as CUD. I figured DM and TC hatched the plan to put Suri in the Sea Org as a 6-year-old cadet and have her take over in approx 13 years when DM wants to retire and you know, lead the good life without so much stress. Yesterday, I read that she has told friends a confirmation of the first half of that plan, and that she and Tom had words over it. And yes, she decided leaving and going for sole custody was the only way out.

    What I could not understand is why he didn’t immediately call this woman he has deemed his soul-mate, as soon as he found she had left, and said “We’ll put her in Hollywood High if you want, darling, just come home…” (or s/g similar) I imagine that his life is not really his own, and for those of you wondering if he is still under DM’s spell, well…YES. He must miss Katie and Suri terribly, and although it has been widely publicized that he sees his child, he seems to not realize that he has lost yet another wife to the machinations of his best friend.

    I try to give them credit for being in love, I figure he was probably at his best with her, although the rumors were he was controlling and she was submissive. But she drew the line as a mother.

    It’s a REALLY BIG ser-fac when you lose people you love to be right,don’t we all know. So yeah, he is still operating with it–he’s the big being and he knows best.

  167. Or maybe he could make a movie called: One Flew Over the DB’s Nest!
    Or: DB Wars!
    Or: The Sound of DB’s!

  168. Well now it makes sense why Michael Doven was so reticent and had such
    a difficult time to say what he did on the phone to Marty a while back. He
    tried to convince Marty of something that Doven himself know was not
    right. Stuttering and thinking and long comm-lags to utter what was not
    very intelligent or convincing showed he was sitting between a rock and
    a hard place. It is sad but really, it is evil.
    Hi, FPRD on the 8 dynamics does a thetan good!

  169. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    “Your” is a possessive adjective, not a contraction for “you are.”

  170. Nobody has ever been banned from Indie Scientologist Facebook group for their politics. If you got yourself banned, it was repeated violation of the Group Guidelines and after multiple warnings. That’s how Karry Campbell rolls.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  171. I can hear the wedding bells.

  172. Considering all the slapping around that was going on with TC and DM thrashing their staff and lower level Scientologists, I suspect that there wasn’t much attention put on attempting to recruit either Chuck Norris or Steven Segal into Scientology. There might have been some really interesting results if DM tried slapping either of those guys around.


  173. “The beatings will continue until the morale improves.” – David Miscavige, COB

  174. Indie-saurus-rex

    Blistering response. Bravo, Oracle, bravo!!!

  175. Now that’s what I call a wide ranging appreciation of philosophers.
    I wish I were still in L.A. We’d have to have a beer!
    If you and Karry ever get out Dallas way, you’ll have to stop at La Casa Bell!

  176. Forgive me – but, tell me this is a very unfunny F*****g joke!

  177. “Amen” to that. Certainly, calling the two Katzenjammer twins “big beings” does a disservice to truly great beings who have walked the earth over the millennia.

    I believe a truly “big being” would not even think in those terms, especially not of themselves. “Big beings” want to serve others, not control them. They want to foster love and ARC, not fear and domination. Truly great beings have an unwavering commitment to truth, not a ruthless dedication to lies that will protect only their chosen third dynamic.

    I have a sudden vision that recapitulates one of the purges in a small African country. The ruthless dictator wreaking his havoc in a stadium while the band played “Those were the days my friends …” Maybe that will be the theme for the last big TC / DM party in the restaurant at the end of the universe …

  178. Anyone can have blind spots. I have blind spots, and I have audited solo nots. I would have never guessed Tom Cruise abused his staff or women. Never in a million years. I don’t have standards for what people are supposed to be as a result of exploring Scientology. As a clear, I had to debug the OT8’s. It didn’t even mean I was more competent then they, I was just able to view from different angles. All auditing is subjective. Scientology is an exchange of information and views and ideas. Nothing tangible ever exchanges hands in Scientology. It is not like buying a table. The only success you can hope for is other people’s happiness on an exchange. When that is discounted as not important, you might as well take down the circus tent. All of what I have done in Scientology has been of great value to ME. I can not speak for someone else that did an L and had a blind spot afterwards. Not having any blind spots is not even a standard of mine. I would only like others to have the same benefits I have had.

  179. I know. I simply made an exact duplicate of what someone else posted ,as I was quoting them.

  180. I meant: TC’s future, if he keeps believing “Then there is me!”

  181. For BDA below.

  182. bob.common@aol.com

    In addition to the influence Tom has received from DM, I think his case has been seriously messed with as in bad C/Sing, bad programming, etc, etc. If you look at the famous video that he made about helping people who have been in accidents, he appears unhinged. That is the result of serious case mishanlding in addition to suppresssive influences. He needs to wake up but he also needs help be

  183. Do people really think the Super Power building is going to give them super powers? And they’ve been waiting around for it, for how many years?

  184. Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter


    Click on the link below, install the software, and you should be able to convert the file.


    Software is free – you can’t argue with that price. 🙂


  185. Troll!

  186. Song for Tommy:

    When the truth is found to be lies
    And all the joy within you dies

    Don’t you want somebody to love
    Don’t you need somebody to love
    Wouldn’t you love somebody to love
    You better find somebody to love…

  187. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks for your willingness to step back, from the noise and clamor, FOTF2012. Quiet reflection permits one . to see that their are many views one may take when observing a coin. There are the obvious ones; front &
    back, for example. But what about the edge? Is it plain
    or serrated? Looking closely, does it show any hidden
    meanings? Icons? Dates? Signatures? Or reveal some
    flaw that may make it a valuable collectors item? Who
    can identify whether it is a casting, or a pressing, by
    just a casual glance? That is to say—was it allowed to
    form in a cast, with its own inherent defects, and individualistic colour/hue on its own accord? (self-
    determined) Or was it “forced” into an appearance / make up, through pressure to appear a certain way, in accordance with the manufacturer’s methods? (A standardized, or “other determined” appearance).

    As a practicing artist, used to scrutinizing detail, I think that being curious, can open the way to better under- standing, when we are prepared to really “look” instead of just “listening”.

    .What about one’s intuition? ie; is this person inherently
    evil? Or are they being influenced through the hidden
    stealth of hypnotism, or mind-control, kool-aid, etc.?

    My 2c,



  188. Oh Mikey – I just sent you an email ! This is a crazy story .

  189. This has been very eye opening. I generally thought that most people on this blog were kind of nit-picky on TC. Now, I finally get it. I see that TC swallowed the winning valence hook line and sinker.

  190. Looks like a good movie!

  191. When I first read Marty’s story about Nazanin and how impressed he was with the fact that she managed to get out of this, her integrity and sanity intact – I thought I got it. Now I think I got it a little more.

    This was rape – pure and simple. Maybe not by the law’s definition, but there is a “Karmic Vortex” operating in this universe as well.

    Nazanin, if you read this: I hope that your story coming out, even if it’s being told without your consent, ensures that noone will ever have to endure what happened to you. On behalf of the church I once belonged to:
    We’re sorry for the injustice and unacceptable behavior directed at you from officials and members of the Church of Scientology. You’re a beautiful person, inside and out. May you live a long, happy and prosperous life.

  192. EnthralledObserver

    Bombshell! I was waiting for this… it’s all in the details… may there be many more exposed…
    Now… just waiting for a reaction from the opposing camp…

  193. About Tom and David:

    When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest.


    One day I realized I was mistaken about the Int Execs and the corporate institution Scientology had become.

    I ceased being mistaken and I left.

    The people that are still there against the backdrop of the outpoints, are simply dishonest.

    When you point out straight truth to someone and clear evidence as to how they are mistaken, and they can not flip or admit it or change, and they remain fixed inside of their mistakeness, you are just dealing with someone that is dishonest.

  194. The only “money” in Scientology is the tech.

    That means Scientology Inc. is bankrupt.

  195. Li'll bit of stuff

    Well, I respectfully ask you again, Marty,….would you?

  196. ‘Then there is me’ : a nice title for his last movie. Though that one could better be called: “Then there was me’ .

  197. Li'll bit of stuff

    So very right, Mike! In refusing to LOOK, one is simply
    stuck, with a preconceived eval.Never as-is’es the truth
    of the actual situation. So the sit. just persists. Sad, &
    at the same time shows just how difficult it can be to
    shake off being a miscavige-oholic!

    No need to wallow in despair any longer m’-oholics,
    since genuine relief from your self inflicted suffering
    is at hand!

    That’s it! —-come on, now — open your heavy lidded
    peepers, just a little more! Let’s get in some sunshine!
    There you go —- that’s better! Let’s continue now to
    decontaminate the effects of an o/d on kool-aid and DM
    ‘ology./ Co$ inc.

    Sunshine– Marty’s blog MOUALH…………………………….
    ………….. –Steve Hall’s blog Scientology.cult.com………..
    ……………–& his newest creation iNdependent.Scn.org.
    ……………–Shreff’s blog……………………………………….
    ……………–Karen De laC’s site
    ……………–Ingrid.Smith (Personal Oasis)………………..
    ……………–Mike Rinder’s site………………………………..
    ……………–Friends of LRH……………………………………
    ..as well as the large number of “shining examples” I’ve
    failed to mention (please excuse me, unintentionally!)

    Thank God for those who are smashing down the gates
    of Hell! End game now a welcome realty. Bon voyage,
    as you sink into the depths of oblivion, captain david
    miscavige, you and your “unsinkable” SATANIC!


  198. This is an answer to Scott Campbell who quote Kerry Campbell policy of “Eligibility” for being accepted on her group.
    I heavily protest on the reduction of the definition of Indy.
    Please look at what is the successful definition by Steve Hall for the Indies 500 :

    “ANYONE WHO USES ANY PART OF SCIENTOLOGY TECH, even if other parts are not true for you, is welcomed to be on this list. LRH said what’s true for you is what’s true for YOU. A person who blindly accepts everything is a robot not a Scientologist. Anyone who retains the right to their own integrity belongs on this list. Freezoners are naturally invited. Send your name to Thoughtful (Steve Hall) at indie500@nyms.net This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it (copy and paste the address) and don’t forget details such as years in Scientology, training and process level, or years on staff.”

    First, I’m not a freezoner. I have been a member of the Church for 35 years.
    To reject freezoners and to call them “squirrels” is to perpetuate the black PR line invented in 1983 by Miscavige and Co by redefining the word “squirrel” to mean : delivering service without the authorisation of RTC who was in fact a SPLINTER GROUP, who made a coup to “SAVE SCIENTOLOGY FROM HIGHER OFFICER OF THE CHURCH”.
    Higher officer being in fact David Mayo, Bill Robertson and others… the “squirrels”. But prior to be purged they were in the church and Mayo was senior C/S int, and a class 12, and Robertson was a class VIII, and a captain from the sea org, while Miscavige was just a camera boy.

    In 1983, the so called “squirrels” understood what it took us more than 20 years to understand : the suppressive nature of Miscavige and RTC.

    So they had to survive, and to make Scientology survive as they thought it should be. Mayo failed because he really abandonned LRH after a while, but Robertson created a group which is still existing.
    He developped some OT levels above Not’s. Well, leave it or take it. But to pretend that people of Ron’s org are not scientologist is to follow the command line of Miscavige.
    By the way the freezone was not created by LRH, nor by David Mayo or Bill Robertson but by David Miscavige.
    There would be no freezone if he wouldn’t have fired so many people. And he is doing it again in a new unit of time. But this time he will loose. He will be disbanded, as he is the SP.
    So please don’t follow his command line, and do segregation between people who use scientology.
    And, a question, was Jung a squirrel of Freud?
    Is there a science or a philosophy which doesn’t finally get developped further after the death of his founder?
    We live in the real world, and history has shown that nothing ever stay still.
    Micavige has try to put Scientology frozen into ice…

    When DM will be gone, and the church empire might have scattered like the Soviet Union, we will maybe once regret the uge events… And struggle like mad to be able to constitute a group which works with a proper qual and real application of standard tech.
    But the futur is ahead of us, we have to let the disorder come out, then to create a new reality. But, I believe that intolerance shouldn’t be part of this realiy.
    Let’s wait a little bit before to tear ourself apart!

  199. Interesting theory: Remove DM and all falls into place. Well the truth is, is not only DM perpetrating, this kind of behaviour , in the SO. This account of Tom Cruise, happened ( ens) every hour of every day in the SO. Its nothing out of the ordinary.

    Thats the way certain people commuincate to other staff members. But to be honest it says alot about a person, when they accept this abuse for long periods of time.

    They put in 12 hour days, for maybe ( if paid) $50 a week, no assets no retirement plan ect. Then get ripped apart by some exec in a uniform with gold stars. You must be someone, with little self-determinisim ans self-worth, to accept this

  200. Just got your book Marty. Incredible to read and to understand what betrayal has been going on for so many years. Thank you!
    Misgavige’s behavior made me think of this (maybe one they there will be a similar movie about DM.

  201. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Hoi Zephyr !

    I didn’t say I want to invent any technology and don’t have any purpose on that.
    The only thing I said was I have no problems with 1 to 10 and the examples, this makes lots of sense to me and I have no problem to understand it and have data of comparable magnitude to evaluate it and make it my own knowledge, but the rest is authorative and I have just to accept and believe it (don’t have any Mu’s) because Lrh says so ?
    We have for example in Switzerland a democracy that is working very well and one of the best worldwide ! And since some 100ds of years more and more democracies are emerging and the people have more and more freedoms around the world. I pay taxes and the exchange I’m getting is very good, when I only think about the Schooling of my children (all with university degrees and everything paid by the Government even they got money for their living while they were studying). Those are the data of comparable Magnitude I’ve. Recently I was able to observe a psychologist how he dptsed a young women in in a matter of some months and got a nice product by using common sense (it was pretty standard per Scientology tech) !
    The only data I can use is that in 1965 the cold war was very present !
    Neither do I understand the answers to my post even I understand the words that are in there.
    Sorry, that’s my thinking and I’ll not agree that I don’t get the words or
    whatever eval you’re understanding from my communication.

    In my 35 years as member of RCS I let me wordclear to accept the weirdest ideas (not Lrh but the interpretation of the wordclearer or Maa or senior) and I won’t do that ! (little bit of bpc about that 🙂

    Sali Greta ! 😉

  202. LO, The idea that mental illness exists was brought to us by the not-so-noble profession of psychiatry. Psychiatrists use their book of “mental disorders” to denigrate their enemies. Do not validate psychiatry by using their wrong-headed concepts. Scientology contains plenty of concepts to describe other people’s misbehavior (i.e. the person is dramatizing, in a valence, etc.).

  203. There may be technical facts about degraded beings, as stated in a few bulletins from LRH. The applications of these data are very limited, like on a certain case handling in session, or a consideration when posting a new executive.

    But if the concept “they are degraded beings” becomes part of the day to day attitude then unwanted side effects are to be expected. Such an attitude is an out-of-arc process and will worsen the person who holds this attitude.

  204. scilonschools

    Well Marty I don’t think anyone coulg criticise you for holding back, but what is scarier i suspect for the right reasons you have!! 🙂

  205. Li'll bit of stuff

    enton! thank God you have arrived! Now we can all pack our bags and leave! We’re thrilled to have YOU
    show us all how to straighten out the aberration which
    has engulfed this planet!!

    Eh? What’s that, you say, ? enton?

  206. I am shocked, I’ll admit. Some Condition Tom will have to do down the road.

  207. Li'll bit of stuff

    Dear ingrid,
    as I said to Les, i simply love & admire your steadfastness in wearing your Auditor’s hat, no matter the provocation
    to do otherwise.Thank you for your example to others!

    ML, Calvin.

  208. but based on Ron’s 18 to 1 ratio it would seem inevitable that big beings would be surrounded by degraded beings

    But this “equation” doesn’t suggest that there are only “big beings” and “DBs”. There are lots of people, usual people who are just ordinary people.
    I never bought into the interpretation that every being is a DB if he is not a big being. It’s just not true.

    There are big beings who rise above the general population. History is full of beings who didn’t agree with the status quo or 3rd dynamik group-think.
    They are few.
    But it doesn’t mean they’re surrounded only by DBs.
    That’s just a misinterpretation of the bulletin and the concept.

  209. Oh, how do you solve a problem like Miscavige?
    How do you hold Narcissus in your hand?

    When I’m with him I’m confused
    Out of focus and bemused
    And I never know exactly where I am
    Unpredictable as weather
    He’s as flighty as a feather
    etc. etc.

  210. Oh, shit.

  211. You may get your wish. The path back for Cruise is getting steeper by the day. Marty did warn him. These revelations are making him look pretty twisted. DM really puffed up TC. But TC was willing to be inflated. The 2 of them are like Macy’s parade floats, giants floating above the crowds below. Awe inspiring. I am sure that “then there is me” position was fed to TC by DM. That kid has been played.

  212. Good point, Dixi88, if those allegations are true, he’s gonna need a lot of love.

  213. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    But this doesn’t mean I’ll do the Bill Robertson levels or that I agree with it.

    We as independents have to confront and understand that there is a universal solvent called ” Communication ” and we have to use it on all fronts.
    Marty is in communication with People that RCS labels Sps as Tony Ortega or Ursula Caberta and others and this communication is fruitful !

    We should stop to use labels for people as he has a MU, is 1.1, is a Wog, koolaid drinker, Lsd case, pts, out ethics etc..as it divides and has in itself the tendency of stopping communication.

    And the people of the Freezone are more our brethren than anonymous or Ortega or others. I think to show respect for our different viewpoints is the first step at all.

  214. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    to be in arc with somebody doesn’t mean one has the same opinion or agrees on everything.

  215. I think psychiatrists could sort David out very nicely , if they gave him a pre-frontal lobotomy or some electro convulsive shock therapy to help him . I hear they are very nice people . (:

  216. +1,000

  217. “Then there is me! — ”Tom physically and emotionally abusing his own staff. He drinks the kool-aid, though I hadn’t thought about how ‘ lost ‘ he actually had become to listen to the tales and actually go along with it,- and abuse his staff. Though, I can understand how it happens, watching it happen to good people who finally woke up and are Indies now. Tom being that far down the hole for so many years, not sure what could wake him up now. If Katie leaving didn’t open his eyes, then what would? Wonder if she also witnessed the physical abuse along with the emotional abuse of the staff? Sad to see how many people dropped that low, to abuse others- and the open physical abuse. A lot of people auditing, winning and successfully going up the bridge in the Indie Field — That opens peoples eyes.

  218. Mike — I always assumed that they are keeping quiet not so much because they are still drinking the kool aid but because their settlement is structured to continue BASED on their continued silence.

    Greg Hughes comes to mind.

  219. RD, I suggest you re-read what Scott posted about the guidelines of that group.

    “This group is primarily for Independent Scientologists. If you are not an Independent Scientologist but agree with our views then you can join this group to support us. If you wish only to criticize Scientology or LRH, please take yourself off of the group list.

    Those who persist in flouting the guidelines predicated here will be removed involuntarily.”

    It did not say a freezone person could not join. But if they want to quote parts of the tech from Bill Robertson, or anyone else they will be warned. You can see that the group is limited in what it discusses and what is written by the members. Being a member of Ron’s Org does not disqualify you. Advocating their upper bridge, and continuing to do so despite warnings by the moderator could get you locked out.

  220. I wish people would leave more room for Tom, and that’s done by giving him better advice than what’s been given him so far.

    The ARC triangle is out here. Imagine if Manu Tapou were alive. He’d go visit Tom in a flash.

    The ranks of celebrities who are full service ARCful scientologists seems history and gone.

    The micromanaged celebrity handling era by Miscavige is the antithesis of how Yvonne Jentsch Gillham would have done things.

    I think no one in WDC is even close to seeing this.

  221. Alex Castillo

    I have just finished reading your book and I can say with a hand on my heart that it is BRILLIANTLY WRITTEN!! I really hope that it will achieve such momentum, that it will be soon translated to other languages, from Mexico to Timbuktu. Your paralleling of Christianity to Scientology is absolutely spot on. Indeed, history has repeated itself!

    Clarifying here that I am one of those old timers (1968-1981) who truly understands (always did) the true spirit of Scientology and the enlightened purposes of it’s creator, having first studied it seriously while not under pressure or any external influences and later practised it during my years as a proud, dedicated Sea Org Member, mostly at Flag, while LRH was still alive, and having followed events from years before you and Mike left Miscavige’s ill gained power base, I am able to see the entire picture. That is to say, I feel I am qualified to say to you and your contributors that you indeed have been mirroring the efforts of one Martin Luther who changed the world of Christianity in 1519-1520. Those actions by Luther effectively changed the world of Christianity and I don’t hesitate to say that your actions since you turned your back on David Miscavige and it’s horribly suppressive group are now changing the world of Scientology from the corrupt so- called Church of Scientology to the pristine, workable Philosophy of Scientology technology (I have never considered Scn to be a religion) as created by LRH, a technology which is now available all over the world in an independent basis. I can’t ascertain what the future holds for scientology Inc, but I know your book has broken the camel’s back, and whether David Miscavige goes down or not, the Reformation of Scientology is now a FACT and ultimately that’s what counts, big time. And as a result of what you have done, I can only see lots of auditors in training, lots of people winning, more auditors in training, more people winning and on, and on and on. Just what LRH envisioned. Humbly stated, Well done Mark, Mosey and all who have contributed to the Reformation of Scientology 2012.



    I knew Greg and Sandy when I was at Flag. In those days Greg was a high power, dedicated auditor, carrying on with the purpose of getting people up the bridge and I felt sad to learn what he turned into. What a shame.

  222. There are a few people I have had the good fortune to meet that
    could be classified as genuine Big Beings. None of them IMHO
    would pull that “Then there is Me” on anyone.
    T.C. should stick to making movies, forget D.M.

  223. I agree. Auditng removes things from a persons universe. What is uncovered is them and their knowledge about them and their experiences. Training a person raises ther level of Confront, therefore they can dupicate things better and thus become more educated in the handling of life. “THE DEGREE OF COMPLEXITY IS DIRECTLY PRPORTIONAL TO THE DEGREE OF NON-CONFRONT” LRH. These people who have done the Ls who have these so call “blind spots are simply not hatted in a particualr area of life. The L rundowns are incredible IF done standardly. I have seen people do them who had unflat drug rundowns and some who were PTS, some who were out ethics on one or more dynamics and some who did not have Expanded Grades. All of them crashed at one point or another. There in lies the “WHYs” of some of the failures by some peo[le who “did” their Ls.

  224. Alex Castillo

    Dear Born in SO,
    I have the feeling you have not understood what this blog is all about. I think you have not read this saga from the day it started. If you had, you would not be trying to clean a clean. This is all about INDEPENDENT SCIENTOLOGY. It is about people around the world practising and/or delivering Scientology Tech as written by L Ron Hubbard. It is about HELPING. The potential demise of David Miscavige is just a by-product. Read Marty’s recent book. David Miscavige and his deceiving and robbing Church of Scientology Inc. are no longer a threat to anyone except those uninformed, ignorant, unable to confront, followers. What you have written above has been known for years. If you want to contribute, get your self well informed on current affairs. All said with a kind heart. Don’t feel offended. Naturally, you are probably full of charge and feel you should communicate it. For that, you are in the right place, but you need to clearly communicate why you are saying what you want to say, and lots of us will listen and support you.

    Take it as advice from an old time Sea Org Member (1968-1981) who is now 72.


  225. From a non scientologist: my attention is caught by The Hole. Why is the FBI not involved yet? I thought false inprisonment was a crime in the usa. Action, anyone, or is protecting scientology still more importantto this community than basic human rights.

  226. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for your competent testimony. Yes, it is sad what happened to Greg. Unfortunately, like so many others.

  227. martyrathbun09

    Many couldn’t get in the door; he wouldn’t bow and scrape sufficiently to do so. He wouldn’t degrade himself so.

  228. This reminds me of:

    ‎”The slavemaster took Tom and dressed him well, and fed him well, and even gave him a little education — a little education; gave him a long coat and a top hat and made all the other slaves look up to him. Then he used Tom to control them. The same strategy that was used in those days is used today, by the same white man. He takes a Negro, a so-called Negro, and make him prominent, build him up, publicize him, make him a celebrity. And then he becomes a spokesman for Negroes — and a Negro leader.” –Malcolm X

  229. I was thinking the same thing. Is DM acting as Tom’s c/s?

  230. what is it with so many ex SO going to Texas? Texas has some incredible places to visit, but so do a lot of other states with pretty remote areas off the beaten path.

  231. Just a thought on artists and the idea of them being opinion leaders:

    It is a poor commentary on the intelligence of us human beings that we would consider someone who is expert at acting, as something other than themselves, for 20,000,00 a movie, to have any special insight into anything other than changing identities at the call of ‘quite on the set, action’.

    Fame and wealth – artists in Scientology were given a sainted status just for being creative in their area of art.

    How does that make them anything other then a great high profile seller of Scientology. And proficient at exuding a charasmatic bla bla in front of audiences.

    When I was in Scientology, wealth and fame, were “spiritual virtues” that we smaller beings drooled and fawned over.

    This is tabloid mentality.

    A distorted sense of sainthood, no?

  232. “Geeze Marty, another boring post! Can’t you post anything with grit?” 🙂

  233. A small, four and a half foot Ecuadorian cleaning lady I know has more wisdom and integrity than all these misguided fools imprisoned in their self deluded “bigness”.

    So far it seems to me that the definition of “big being” is ass hole lol!!

    Lets make the virtues of kindness, love, service, humility, benevolent spirirtual powers, courage, wisdom, right knowledge, integrity etc. the test for “bigness”.
    On the other hand, anyone with these virtues would be repulsed by being called a “big being”.

    Big Being = Big F–ktard

  234. How strange Ronnie! How strange!

  235. constant vigilance

    To Reader: I heard or read somewhere in the Indie stuff that after light was shone on the Hole and imprisonment, that DM changed it all and moved the detainees to a different building, with no bars on the windows and destroyed the other trailer/buildings and destroyed all evidence that it was ever there. That makes it hard for marshalls to come in and arrest. He is cunning. I still think the way to get him is on the tax exempt status of the church and showing that he takes money given as donations for “good works” and uses them to live the lifestyle of the rich and famous and undeserving.

    On a different subject, Marty I have a question: One of the L’s was supposed to De-PTS a person and make them unshakable as a thetan and an exec and make them “much less likely to ever go PTS again.” I am paraphrasing from promo on the L’s. If it is true that you get better perception, and are less likely to go PTS from the L’s, why have none of these L’s completions cognited that DM IS the SP! ???! Have the L’s tech been squirrelled and altered in the church? Is that why the L’s completons don’t see who the real SP is. I would like to know if the church L’s tech is as LRH wrote it?

  236. Agreed RD, at some point, all the external formalities, technologies, dogma etc. have done their work.



    TAT TVAM ASI (sanskrit) THOU ART THAT!!!!!!

  237. I can attest that this is true. Sad but true. TC went off the rails. It was beyond paranoia. Everyone was a “DB” or an “SP” or, at the very least, “PTS”. Just he and COB were above it all. By the way, if you invent common enemies, you obfuscate the obvious enemy. Old dictator trick.

  238. Love it when you go sudden! Miss Sarge who use to go sudden on us!

  239. This book and it’s message needs to break out into the main stream media where it will be discussed with the masses. Then, and only then will the corporate fall like dominios. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

  240. Things are getting ready to improve in a big way because Marty is not letting TC (or us) turn a blind eye to TC’s PTS condition or to the SP source of his condition: DM.

  241. Do people really think the Super Power building is going to give them super powers?

    No. Not even the drunkest Kool-Aid drinkers take that phrase literally, and no, they don’t believe they’ll suddenly attain super powers by simply walking into a building.

  242. Excellent observations. Was just on the phone to a radar flyer last night about those very concepts. Thank you.

  243. The opposing camp is beginning to look like the worlds most powerful army (Great Britains Redcoats who had defeated Napolean at Waterloo) just after it engaged Andrew Jackson and his rag tag group of militia in the Battle of New Orleans. “They began a runnin down the Mississip…..”

    If someone can find the song “Battle of New Orleans” and post it here it may be appropriate!!

  244. Imagine the “Big Beings” starting their own Facebook group. Closed group, of cource, and one need apply and have his beingness measured before acceptance. Imagine how big a being the moderators would have to be. They must have some sort of test to measure each others bigness. Wow. Imagine rubbing elbows or whatever. Big, Big Beings. Imagine being invited by the other biggies to join. That alone is bound to make anyone grow bigger. Plus your acceptance into the group automatically entitles you to membership in Facebooks Narcissists International, where self-love is the greatest love.

  245. @Alex

    You are right on every point. I am not going to lie, at points I have been charged to the max. Due to be ripped apart (by certain people), while stil a minor. You know,a child. Also not getting, a proper education, thats not fair. So yeah I am charged. I mean any average family, sits with there children and do homework. Prepare them for the future, but it was more important to sweep the street and yards at 12 years of age.

    I don’t want to stay charged on this and I am working on it constantly. Too tell you the truth. I have not follwed Marty from the start. born in the SO and left, as a young adult. I had no interest in the subject. I know I have never, been able to seperate Scientology and the SO. This is 14 years.Suddenly after all these years, I get contacted non stop.

    There was a personal letter from CO$: that stated you know at least some of the Tech works. ´Now bear in mind, I had not looked, at the subject for a long time. So I went online, and found Marty ect.

    Anyways I can see, now better the purpose of this blog. And the whole Independent scientology purpose.


  246. Fair enough however didn’t Ron state that anyone leaving the Sea Org is a DB? If so, I can’t imagine any rational person really agrees with that. I my as well get this out of my system now: It seems to me Scientologists both “in and out” pick and choose what Bulletins, Policies, EDs and FOs they feel are valid in order to suit their particular point of view or agenda. For example, if you are an “Indy” I guess you’ve got to ignore the Policies and FOs creating the Sea Org. Seems to me DM or whoever did the same when he nuked The Guardian PL. I never saw The Guardian PL cancelled by the Old Man. Did you?

  247. RD, you can command people to accept others into their groups, just because you say so. You can even back it up with what you think is a strong appeal to reason. Just don’t get upset if they ignore you. People have an innate right to freedom of association with others of like mind.

    I’m sorry, but attempting to enforce Affinity won’t get you anywhere. It just creates ridges and conflicting Realities, which of course leads to combative Communication. The reverse happens when ARC is self determined.

    There’s no question that there exist at least two distinctly different camps (or sects) of free Scientologists at this time. One is the orthodox, or Standard Tech branch, and the other is the less orthodox, or Free Tech branch. Obviously, they have differing Realities on what constitutes the right and proper practice of Scientology, hence the A and the C are also reduced between them.

    What to do? In time, I believe it will all sort itself out, but in the meantime, enforcing ARC is not the answer.

  248. Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise Crazy
    Just be glad it’s him not you
    If you had Tom Cruise’s troubles
    You might be Tom Cruise Crazy too

  249. Sounds like a degraded game, eh?

  250. …an old time Sea Org Member (1968-1981) who is now 72.

    Thank you for your service, Alex.

  251. Yes, right.
    It’s somehow sad to see natural laws used to create “mythologies”.
    We can learn from other people mistakes, too.

    I think the problem with the Sea Project has begun when recruitement standards where lowered. OTs first, then Clears and OTs, then Grade IV and finally no case level what so ever.
    I think the Sea Org was an important project at some time. Really. I am sure we wouldn’t have any of the upper levels without the Sea Org Base.
    And they did a very good job and expansion was occuring.
    It wasn’t perfect. And it’s useless now.

  252. Additionally, to be fair, the times where different.
    You was even allowed to have family and some space and life on your own back then.

  253. constant vigilance

    On the whole “Big Being” thing: LRH was a big being and yet he never pushed that view of himself on others. Instead, he rubbed elbows with the man in the street, he tirelessly helped people. He wrote “What Is Greatness” which even if you have read it, it bears reading again…. and he wrote that a man is only as valuable as he can serve others. Each person was important to LRH. He even wrote a policy called “Manners” that bears reading again. In it he says that it is good to make the other person feel important. And LRH lived his life doing just that. So this whole idea of “I’m better than you” and “I am a Big Being surrounded by messed up DBs who are trying to take me down….” That is just one thing taken out of context and given more importance than the many other references LRH wrote which stressed the importance of granting beingness. That mindset of DM and his RTC staff and even of some public Scns, that mindset is just another example of Reverse Dianetics, Reverse Scientology or Black Scientology where they take it and pervert it into bad.

  254. Would Katy AND Suri be considered degraded beings too?

    What f’ Ed up a-holes

  255. Calvin -thank you, but I did mean to add on TCs realness is that he is human and right now he is being a really nasty mean jerk of a human. he certainly isn’t the hero he portrays in the movies.

  256. Li'll bit of stuff

    + 1 Scott!

  257. LOL.

    It took me this much reading to get over my shock. Thanks Brian.

  258. Dear RD,
    Dianetics and Scientology, whether helped by others or not during his research, was developed by L Ron Hubbard and the application of Dianetics and Scientology had (has) specific methods and rules to ensure the PC will obtain what is promised by Dianetics and Scientology Tech as delineated in LRH’s writings. Just like a manual that tells you exactly what to do by any manufacturer of anything that is supposed to cause a particular effect, Dianetics and Scientology contains a manual. If you don’t follow the basic manual, the effects are not guaranteed. Get that? Being a career Engineer, let me ask you: what if General Motors had a manual on exactly how to deal with specific problems for a specific model of car, guaranteeing that the problem would be solved, and then someone else decided to re-write the manual to include other methods to handle the problems for that model car, could General Motors vouch for the validity of such altered manual, especially when the results would vary from those stated in the original manual? I would not call that squirrel, I would say the manual has been altered and the results are NOT THE SAME as intended in the ORIGINAL MANUAL. Ultimately I would say that the “new improved manual” does not produce the same results as the original, purpose made manual.
    Simple enough for you?

    I am not clear on what you defending here. Are you defending Capt Bill Robertson and Max Hauri? Are you defending the Free zone’t right to concoct and deliver their own individual versions of what to help people with, regardless of the methods used? Are you defending Paul Adams’s Internet Robot Auditor (he is a member of the Free Zone). Or you defending the idea of being a free thinking individual, such as those who years ago promoted that Keeping Scientology Working LRH PL was “dictatorial” and “didn’t allow people to improve on technology”?

    And in case you are wondering, I believe I knew scientology and Dianetics long before you, way back in 1968. I studied LRH’s works back then an the then joined Flag and became a Flag Management evaluator using all the tech included in OEC, FEBC, Data Series evaluator Tech. I used to evaluate Orgs in and outside the US. If you were in Scientology 35 years, I probably evaluated the org you were a staff member of.
    I spent many years of evaluating time making sure KSW was being followed.
    Keeping Scientology Working was my life, day in and day out, 24/7. I went on many missions during my time and every time the purpose was to handle
    problems that were interfering with KSW, handling those problems so that
    delivery of standard LRH Tech could continue unhindered and orgs would flourish and prosper as intended by LRH and management.

    I personally knew Capt Bill Robertson up close and personal and I knew, in spite of his past as an Apollo-close to LRH-past, that he was slightly unhinged. I knew he had been a kind of experimental subject during some research LRH had done on the Apollo and I could see from dealing with him that there was something not quite right with him. And I confirmed this when, during a mission in the UK, while I was at Saint Hill Manor waiting for orders for another mission during the harsh English winter, he took the entire Saint Hill foundation crew (about 40), in shirt sleeves out into the open, left them there freezing to death for about half an hour and when they almost blue wit cold, he told them-verbatim from my memory-“this is what you are going to feel if you don’t get the GI (Gross Income) up”. Then, when they were almost experiencing close to hypothermia, he took them all back inside the warm course room, let them thaw out and thren said “and this is what you will experience if you get the GI up”. Having witnessed all that incredible Pavlovian treatment of dedicated SO members, I reported it to my Mission ops, but my KR was ignored. manyy years later, Marty told me Capt Bill Mission ops was David Miscavige.

    And there is more about Capt Bill (may he have changed his ways in a new life time). I escaped the budding empire in 1981, when he was already working on his take over by taking over control of the CMO.
    I escaped with my wife from Clearwater in the middle of the night after being subjected to serious violations of LRH ethics and justice policies (I was, on top of all other training, a genuine graduate of the HEJSC (Hubbard ethics and Justice Specialist) and I sure as hell knew my stuff so I knew then something was very wrong with the CMO.

    Due to good heart of my friend Dean Stokes from Dallas, I soon found a job in Dallas and I was happily performing at the company when one night at home I received a call from no less than Alex Sibersky (some may remember him from being a high class auditor at Flag) who told me there was a “special LRH messenger who wanted to talk to me and my wife”. The call was very cloak and dagger. We were to call a number in Midland, TX and say “I am a friend of friend who told me I should call this number” (gosh-I remember that as if it had been yesterday). I was then given an address in Midland and me and my wife drove over night to there at the agreed time, early in the morning. We knocked on the door of the address given to me and a nonde-script man opened the door and directed us to the outside swimming pool. Having freshly blown from flag and being somehow aware that LRH was off the lines and someone else was taking ove, we kind of expected that our mysterious messenger might be Pat Broeker, Annie or both. We didn’t really know what to expect, we didn’t think we were so important as to deserve a visit from some high ranking person. I had been in Management Evaluation for years, my wife had been a NOTs auditor and C/S and we were not privy of high level info. We sat by the pool for some time until….well, who showed up? No less than Bill Robertson, who quickly pulled out of briefcase a few “telexes” addressed to him from “lronelray”, directing him to form a galactic confederation and take over Scientology. LRH wasn’t dead yet, we were freshly out a lifetime in the SO and slightly confused. Capt Bill, a man I knew well from previous years, who knew me well, then proceeded to elect me, in the name of Elrayelron right there by the side of the swimming pool, to be the Galactic Ethics Officer,(c’mon, dont fucking laugh, because it was mind boggling:)) in charge of putting ethics in on this planet, always reporting to him, so he could report back to Lray.

    We lived in a suburb of Dallas called Garland (google garland, texas if you wish), so he right there cooked up that my code name should be DAGAR!! i should soon receive instructions on what to do next as part of my post as galactic Ethics Officer. Throughout the whole conversation me and Maude (he knew Maude from the Apollo where she had been LRH’s personal photographer) just listened and didn’t ask many questions because we were, well, just not knowing what to think about the whole thing. Then he dropped the bomb on us..He told us he was on a mission to get funds for an expedition to go and find the gold LRH had buried in some past life!! We were just out of the SO, we didn’t have a penny apart from my monthly salary check, so we just said something like “good luck” and quickly left him and went back home. We never heard back from him, Alex Sibirsky or anyone asking me to report as Galactic Ethics officer. Years later, when I satarted email communicating with my old friend Amos Jessup, he told me he had tried a similar trick on them, they gave him shelter and he walked away after building up a huge phone bill they had to pay.

    So, how can anyone like me and many others who have studied LRH’s tech and admin,have experienced it and have had benefits from it can accept copies like what Mr Robertson somehow managed to create? Shit, he wasn’t even Tech trained!! OT Levels up to OT 40 something? I think Ron’s Org should call themselves “Excalibur Org” or Captain Bill’s Org and not use the name of Scientology and LRH to promote their services, no matter how many people they train to deliver up to OTIII.

    But like they say, anyone to his own, and more power to them. A win is a win anyway. Free thinking has always been my hero, but not when it comes to tested and proven technology like scientology.

    Oh, and by the way, no one here is trying to FORM A NEW GROUP amigo. You have that one wrong. What we are all trying to do here is to return Scientology (not the organization) to it’s original working form as developed by it’s creator, who is not our God but just the source of a technology which, when applied as it was intended, can improve people’s lives. All intended to make this planet a safer place where our children and grandchildren can flourish and prosper. The Freezone may have the same purpose but their methods are not the same as the original LRH Technology.


  259. Thanks for the Kindle version Marty. I got it yesterday and read it. Genius observations once again. “Pope On a Box” makes so much more sense now 🙂

  260. Dear Born in SO,
    Thank you for your heart felt answer to my somehow fatherly post. I know you are a grown up being in search of answers to questions you probably have been sitting on for a long time. I can feel your anxiety and your feeling of how you were thrown into a world that wasn’t you choice when you were just a kid. I have been there myself when I was a 4 year old (1948) and my mother decided to join a Latin American revolution and dragged me into it. At that time i couldn’t really tell how shocking it was to have bullets flying over over my head, but now i can. That how it goes.

    But today is today and it is up to you to continue your search for answers and be sane enough to sift the bullshit from the truth. And I can tell you, my friend, that when you hit the truth, you will be able to differentiate from the bullshit.
    Stick around. Privately contact Independent scientologists in your area. Help is right here with us. I promise you that.


  261. Orders and Policies are not The Tech. Hubbard’s opinions are not The Tech either. Neither are they the philosophy.

    Learn to differentiate. Learn to apply the Philosophy and the Tech such that you can tell what when Orders and Policy contradict Basic Scientology and it’s Purpose, which is senior to either on Hubbard’s own Admin Scale.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientoloigst

  262. Puppy, Is it that mental illness doesn’t exist at all? I always thought Scientologists believed that mental illness does exist but that only thru Scientology can the illness be cured?

  263. Alex Castillo

    Truth, Integrity and a Love for the Human Race + the Old Man’s work is what makes us Spiritual Brothers and Sisters. And with that kind of fire-power, we will eventually see a better world come to be, bit by bit.


  264. What is MOST remarkable (at least to the likes of me) facet of all of this is how thoroughly DM has squirreled the OT levels as they relate to the handling of entities.

    That DM applied his squirreling to TC, in particular, is a big “don’t care”. At least no more a “care” than if he had squirreled the auditing of the fellow who takes money at the local McDonald’s Drive-Thru. Who cares a darn about TC? He’s nothing special, in any context, and his stardom, money and ‘power’, while sort of fascinating, do not correlate to the “bigness” of his beingness. So far as I can tell, he’s just some run-of-the-mill schmuck who happens to have some acting skills. If he WERE a “big being”, DM would not have been able to pervert him.

    There is a reason that LRH, Jesus and a whole ‘holy’ host of other very smart and very ethical folks, have, from time immemorial, noted that riches, wealth and power are almost always a sign of disqualification from entry into ‘heaven’ (or where ever).

    It is NOT TRUE that wealth and power, just by themselves, are necessarily associated with out-ethics and debased beings (like DM and TC) — although, much of the time they are. But, so-called “Big Beings” do not NEED wealth, power, celebrity, notoriety or guns, to get done what they want to get done. And, a corollary to this truth, is that so-called “Big Beings” rarely, if ever, use their wealth, power, celebrity, notoriety or guns, to get things done — and the fact that TC, reportedly, so thoroughly mis-understands this, shows how thoroughly and utterly debased he has become.

  265. I know dozens of L’s completions who have cognited that miscavige is a raving SP. Myself and my wife included.
    We both loved the Ls.
    One needs to be fully set up before receiving them.
    Being PTS to davey or any other sociopath in the Co$, would be something that needed to be handled before starting them…otherwise…all manner of difficulties may ensue. The main difficulty would, of course be, “wrong item.”

  266. He’s the most dedicated Scientologist that I know…

  267. ‘sno joke bed man. Unless you and I are just not big enough beings to “get it”. Think I’ll stick to being a pleb (UK in-joke),

  268. Nicely said Alex. Damn, we gotta do that tea sometime soon while we’re still young! I’ll mail you.

  269. You could even have mixed groups, like Big degraded being, suppressive small being, suppressive OT, PTS SP big being, Patron with honors DB, Class 4 SP Meritorious. I am a Patron Humanitarian OT SP.
    I think some labels are useful as they can communicate a lot in a little time. Such as PTS.
    It is easy to carry this labeling to extremes. In fact I believe LRH had a reference that labelled and person leaving the Sea Org as a DB. I think this was wrong also.

  270. This “big being” thing. As far as I know beings don’t have size. Where’d this even come from? Is there a reference?

  271. Kevin – I believe the FO about the Sea Org and DB states (paraphrased) anyone who can’t make it in the SO is a DB. Wanting to leave and not making it are not the same thing. There are many valid reasons to leave. Not being able to make it with study, correction, auditing, etc and then getting a Fitness Board as unfit is another thing. Today it would seem an A=A has been done by the SO. Now, an SO member is denied standard auditing, training, correction and ethics and when cognites he wants to leave the suppresive environment he is label a DB. A great reversal from the intent of the reference.

    Ron created the Sea Project to do further research into the upper bridge. Ron wrote the Guardian PL to ensure the continued existence of Scientology. Both were needed at the time. The authority and power of both have now been usurped for an ulterior motive and purpose.

  272. Alex Castillo

    Hey Born in SO,
    I am repeating my words to you, friend. Trust us. come back to us. You can absolutely trust that you can safely communicate to us people on this site. We are one hundred percent with you and your feelings and we have the ability to help you in whatever way you can think of. We are friends. Yrust us, please.

  273. A static has no size.

  274. I thin he should have punched Matt in the face. I mean, he obviously doesnt get that Tom is a Big Being and having a hard time dealing with a little being (Matt)

  275. And what is TC’s training level? Hardly any better than DM’s I’d bet. These guys aren’t practiced auditors, yet they think they are the cream of humanity’s crop? Delusion rules.

  276. Who originated the use of the term “Big Being,” and when? Is it an LRH saying that was taken out of context? I’ve first heard of it being used by guys like Bill Robertson and Bill Franks, IIRC.

  277. I thought so too!

  278. I think a good reference has always been that a person is as OT as he can make things go right. I would further say that “right” would be the most pro-survival outcome.
    Things have not been right with scientology for a long time. So aside from juniors making their targets, the leaders in the church who have set the agenda have failed to make things go right towards a pro-survival outcome. Evaluating the current scene would lead one to find that there is no” OT” in charge. For an organization charged with making OT’s, thats one serious outpoint.

  279. He’s being a total ass, making an enemy where there is none. Matt Laur seems like a cool, friendly guy and Tom had an opportunity to communicate, but he had apparently been programmed to fight an enemy.

  280. Speaking of Marty’s books, This past summer I had someone come by to visit from another country. He had been real Scientology royalty as a staff member and a Scientologist in his country and mine. He had left amid some confusions and injustice and had been way off the Scientology radar for several years and he stumbled across Marty’s blog. He told me he instantly went to the beginning of the blog and read the entire blog and every post from beginning to end! Like a book! He then contacted someone who had popped up in his area and got back on the bridge and, at the time he was here, had just finished OT2. But he said sitting down and reading the entire blog handled EVERYTHING for him. Explained EVERYTHING for him. This guy is one of the coolest Scientologists I have ever met. He is in the process of relocating to Texas now, so the folk in Texas are going to soon have a very cool neighbor!

  281. “I’m passionate about learning, I’m passionate about life.” – Tom Cruise

    So I suggest you read Marty’s books, Tommy!

  282. First of all, Tom has zero ARC. Looks like he he could use a tote of opium to chill out. Really, like he himself needs something. He is totally keyed in to something. Looks like a red tag P.C. coming off a psychotic break. Does that make people want to run into an Org and sign up for a comm course? I think not.

    Then, he says he does his research and only talks about what he knows. When is the last time he interviewed one single staff member at the Int Base or in any Org? When is the last time HE went on the Internet and did some research about the C of S?

    Sometimes I wish I was parked in the back room of some of these interviews working as a prompter through the ear peice and able to give the interviewed questions to ask.

    And you what, Tommy, David, Tom Cruise, they know these people don’t have right questions to ask. They take advantage of it.

  283. If a being is big or not is regulated, of course, by consideration.
    In The Factors LRH speaks about 3 universes.
    The size/importance/significance of everything is dependent on viewpoint.
    There are things viewpoints agree about (and buttons we all, to some degree, react similar when pushed).
    We could name some “Big Beings” where every one on this blog would agree with.

    And we all have seen degraded beings. But why calling them as such?
    I even wouldn’t tell someone at which tone level he operates.
    It would just consolidate my consideration and then life becomes solid.
    Granting beingness, high ARC, understanding can help.

  284. Alex Castillo

    Martin, yes please, do e mail me at castalex@hotmail.com. yu know where I am in Colchester, Essex.

  285. Missy from the Creed of the Church of Scientology, written in 1954 by LRH:

    “And we of the Church believe that the laws of God forbid man:

    To destroy his own kind;

    To destroy the sanity of another;

    To destroy or enslave another’s soul;

    To destroy or reduce the survival of one’s companions or one’s group.

    And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body.”

    Thus it is not scientology alone that can heal, but the spirit within you that, given the opportunity, can improve physical/mental conditions a person is suffering through. Scientologists are supposed to use their training to optimize, an essentially self-healing process. A scientology auditor is essentially a facilitator of self-healing processes.

    Psychiatric diagnoses are a very mixed bag. Mostly they are designed to get the psychiatrist paid by the insurance companies. And also to get government subsidies and funding for psychiatric programs. Psychiatric “illnesses” are invented by committees and added to a big book of such. They are based on symptoms, thus psychiatric treatments tend to be only of symptoms, not the actual causes. This book gets thicker every year as new diagnoses are invented. To be fair, some of this is actually an attempt to fine-tune diagnosis to more realistically cover mental/emotional conditions that really are hampering or disabling a person, to get those kind of conditions covered. But the fact is much of psychiatric treatment is not very effective, and may have bad side effects.

    Puppy Eyes is right in that psychiatric diagnoses can stigmatize or invalidate a person in harmful ways. But this is not necessarily the sole intention of all psychiatrists.

  286. I meant to add, that at this point in time, much of the knowledge of the mind gained from Dianetics in the Church of Scientology is used harmfully rather than helpfully, so that in many ways the CoS is no better than psychiatry for getting help.

  287. Hey Alex,
    You have good precption, thank you for your kindness 🙂 Yes It seems like a cool group of people. It helps you have Mike Rinder here: I remember being a child and watching Mike Rinder speak, at events and he was really my favourite of all the “top” people. I really believe he is a great guy and trust his intentions..

  288. Valkov, I like your post. 🙂

  289. Constant, Sorry for the interrupter, I do not know what L’s promo piece you saw. I actually don’t think I have ever seen an L’s promo piece. But trying to see how that might apply, I will say this. Through my L12, and I am mathematically inclined, early on I saw the pattern. I saw the pattern of my internal conflict and the insanity of it. Auditing processes are a pattern. A person can suppress themselves with counter purposes and valences. If you have been a smuggler in one life, and mocked up that beingness. And then in the next life, you are robbed by smugglers, maybe you can be hesitant about whether you want to go after the smuggler that robbed you because you “understand” the game.
    So, you disarm yourself and suck up the loss. There is a pattern to unraveling these identities one on top of the other . And some , or many of these, can be identities we do not even see in today’s world. Even words and terms we do not use in todays’ world, so you wouldn’t run across them if you were not in the auditing session. But, you can find yourself suppressed by your self. So, I know a lot of people who finish the L’s auditing and even forget what happened back there. But seeing the pattern I made a note of it, so if afterwards, I found myself in conflict, I could think with the pattern and iron it out in my universe right there on the spot. For me, not only was the auditing a major release, but afterwards, afterwards was the main thing. Because I took this and applied it right away to the environment. And, if I bumped into opposition internally or externally, I could return to the math pattern , apply the equation, and come up with the answer within seconds. And the suppression whatever direction it was coming from, would blow. But if it was coming from external influences, it got a little noisy as I had to make someone understand I was not going to be road kill. The thing is with an auditing process like that, is to realize you have had an aberrative behavior cycle going on. I mean, I realized it as soon as the auditing began. And it is very very fun, unserious auditing. So, it is easy to let yourself see that and have a laugh at yourself. But to really get the pattern down. Afterwards, if one is on the ball, one needs to incorporate that into livingness, and do a danger condition. You can not return to the same pattern if you want to stay on top of your wins. You have to bypass those habits and routines on purpose and, if you find yourself being op termed, you have to go back and look at the pattern and notice how that pattern is being dramatized by someone else towards you on a different flow, or check yourself out to see if you are falling back into some former pattern and using what you LEARNED from the processing, ask yourself a few questions to unravel the situation. You have to take responsibility for this social theater after the auditing. I think it is possible some people just flip out onto the sidewalk after this L and continue on without making adjustment right away. Because of this, I did become more stable.
    And I have to say I had no idea how fucking crazy I was until I did that L. But the way you run it and look at yourself and the craziness, it becomes a very very funny matter. I never laughed so hard in my life as on the L’s. On L11 someone in the car suggested I should not be driving because I was laughing so hard it looked like I should not be driving. I still haven’t done L10 but I will be doing it within the next year hopefully. I still don’t think I am 100% sane, and probably never will be according to everyone’s standards. But it isn’t a goal of mine now that I have seen just how crazy I really was without knowing it. About ptsness, I had a pts rundown after I went clear and could not run engrams anymore. We could not find an item, but it never occurred to me I was the item. It hit me on L12. I was suppressing myself. I am not doing that anymore. But within forces, I do not see suppression any more, I only see opposition. I hope this widens your understanding in some way.

  290. Jesus Christ – are you fucking kidding me. I am dealing with a sociopath right now and it is beyond the pale what they are capable of . Beyong it. So Marty when someone says you need to disconnect from them , it in no way means disconnect as far as the Sci Corp. means. Disconnecting from a sociopath is imperative to save your life – literally, they will suck the life out of you body and soul and enjoy doing it.

  291. “Misunderstood words breed strange ideas.” And strange ideas breed strange actions(overts).

  292. LOL! Tommy and COB … watch Sex and the City 2 (the movie) for some great style tips for a gay wedding. And mazel tov!

  293. LRH uses the term in HCO PL 22 March 1967 ALTER-IS AND DEGRADED BEINGS. I can imagine an arrogant, self-absorbed, narcissistic, was-bullied-at-school-and-never-got-over-it religious nutball using this to validate himself.

    What a nerd.

  294. Tom Cruise would shit a brick if he knew that right here, in our own backyard, one of his former employees (Daniela) had been visited and questioned by the FBI regarding allegations of human trafficking (slave labor: use of Sea Org members for Tom Cruise’s benefit.)

    After Flag S.O. members told several of us to stay away from the Perry family, we were intrigued. We were told that Mari Perry became ill after reading Marty’s blog. Weird as that seemed when one of our friends (the one who told us about the FBI visit) saw Mari recently, she looked the picture of health. She was seen with her Daniela (her daughter) and they looked happy getting out of a Range Rover. After asking around some more we were directed to Marty’s blog where we read a jaw dropping letter by Susan Lewis. (May 15th, 2011, Plant or Vegetable.) We discovered that Susan’s letter was sent AFTER the FBI questioned Daniela (about her employment for Tom Cruise) and the Perrys (about the recruitment of Lori Hodgson’s son, who was a minor at the time. Mari is who saved Lori’s life during the trauma inflicted on Lori by Flag S.O. recruiters, who were trying to take Lori’s then minor son.)

    The Perrys have not been seen at any org or mission. We would know. They weren’t at any of the re-dedications for the Los Gatos and Stevens Creek orgs. They are not around their known friends. We would know. (Last time I saw Daniela, she was doing Class IV at Flag in 2010.)

    We suspect, but are not sure, that the Perrys are the only people interviewed by the FBI while still “in” the church.

    The reason the Perrys’ story started our internet research is because John (Mari’s husband) is known as an intellectual and Mari is an OEC/FEBC, mid-OT 7. And we all know Daniela worked for Tom Cruise.

    (Mari: if you are reading this, I have left you several messages over the last few weeks asking you to lunch.)

    Having discovered that the FBI had questioned this family, and then seeing how Susan Lewis was used as a pawn by OSA to hurt the Perrys in order to protect Tom Cruise makes us sick.

    But it also makes us wonder: what does Daniela know?

  295. Miscavige (junior), the “Big degraded Being”?

  296. scilonschools

    Some things are just so wrong…

  297. Li'll bit of stuff

    Got that, ingrid—right now! Please consider that you
    are looking at a being who has probably had the MOST
    thorough and exhaustive “conditioning” of anyone EVER
    selected by the devil incarnate himself.

    Considering that this incarnation has taken his depraved
    designs for “mind-control of TC to extraordinary depths,
    are you at all surprised at his “cloning?”

    We are aware that TC had been manipulated even while
    Marty was auditing him, all at the behest and orders of
    the madman in question!

    One is aware of actors who have taken their role playing
    to the most believable levels of realism, since there are
    quite a few of them, including Cruise himself.

    Having just read Marty’s WIWWS, and with as much real
    interest as with Janet Reitman’s– Inside Scientology, it is
    clear that any one to receive the attention of the madman
    is earmarked for sustained, devastating doses of Black
    Dianetics and/or Reverse Scientology. aka, the creation
    of insanity.

    The results are legion—always destructive, in many cases
    deadly, as it was for Lisa McPherson, and most recently,
    for the only son of Karen & Heber (and THAT was by proxy!)

    What I am alluding to here, can probably best be described
    in a post by The Oracle, some months ago, where she
    pointed out that; “there is NO ” them versus us” This is a
    deliberate, divisive ploy of david miscavige, to set Scn’s
    against one another. In reality, there is only a “WE.”

    I now ask you, Ingrid, to consider that if it took an incredible,
    “giant” among men,Marty Rathbun, armed with the most sophisticated know-how in counter intelligence work, blessed with extraordinary street smarts, and highly trained Auditor skills, some FOUR YEARS to decompress (recover!) after
    escaping the insanity of Miscavige’s Madhouse, by then, a “broken man,” suffering the deepest disillusionment and depression, then please explain to me, what real chance TC actually had –as the unwitting subject of the most ruthless, thorough, prolonged, SECRET indoctrination probably ever undertaken in the history of the “church” of $cientology inc. or any other cult, for that matter?

    The extent of damage done to TC, a hapless, “conditioned”
    victim of ruthless exploitation, is only beginning to be
    revealed. I predict a totally shattered man will occur, before
    beginning the painful task of regaining his beingness from
    the clutches of the Devil who has practically destroyed him.


  298. Ronnie, this is really funny. Whether it’s a real quote or one made up. It is really appropriate. Thanks for making me laugh.

  299. We all just witnessed a stellar outing of an PC (Tom Cruise) and my q is: In what way does that not breech the sacred bond?

  300. I agree, there’s a reason LRH was hiding from the Feds at the end of his life; history might repeat itself with DM. So far the CoS is batting 100% with “alleged” felons at the helm.

  301. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thank you for that, Ronnie! It is his time to reach for
    the sanity available to him here!

    Jason? Could you give him that call, when it REALLY
    hits home? (Do absolutely no good until then!!!)

  302. Yes Bob it would take loads of love. I must have been in Wayne Dyers valence when I wrote that, as I just watched one of his videos. I think Wayne Dyer is a bigger being than either DM, or TC. He conquered his ego!

  303. Alex Castillo

    I say again. stick with us dude, Mike’s a good guy, we were together in the old days, he followed Miscavige for some time but eventually he saw the light and walked away and he has been speaking the truth. He lost his whole family though when he decided to break a way from the church, when he spoke the truth. I used to work together with his wife Cathy Rinder evaluating orgs at Flag. They were together and had kids but now they have disconnected from him and don’t want to have anything to do with him. All down to david miscavige. Miscavige has ordered his people to follow him everywhere he goes since he left cause he thinks he knows too much. Where are your parents anyway?


  304. Interesting timing as there are rumors circulating that TC is “distancing” himself from corporate Scn supposedly to win back Katie. Oh and I guess Katie was declared? Because there seems to be some ruckus about TC refusing to follow the disconnect policy when it comes to visiting his daughter? Whether it’s all tabloid or not, it’s going to be interesting if in the end TC can wake up and realize his friends are out here. Everyone deserves a second chance, with the exception of David Miscavige, who can wait to be audited by a cockroach for all I care.

  305. I am eagerly waiting for my copy of Marty’s book. But like some others here, I too sense already that things are about to change. That the source of the bpc is in the process of being indicated. It’s a bit of a shock and it will take a while for it to filter through. But it explains so much about the Church that has puzzled us over the years. It’s a truth that will go through a concrete wall.

    I can add something else to this discussion too. There seems to be an impression that when you get auditing, you lose some bad stuff and then your basic ARC, sweetness and light will inevitably shine through. That’s not exactly true and Ron hints at this in his “cleared cannibal” comment.

    The truth is that ARC has to be consciously created. The Dynamics have to be consciously created. There is nothing at all that can run on automatic.

    I found this out in the 90’s. I’d done OT V but wasn’t doing well. I reviewed Way To Happiness and found several flaws in my beingness. I turned my life around simply by deciding to be friendly and helpful to people around me. I have never looked back.

    I know from my studies in Scientology as well as personal experience that this is a very basic secret. You have to create your life. If you don’t, the bank or David Miscavige will do it for you.

  306. Me too! I got it last night and devoured it. My favorite part was the Digital Lightwave story. Freaking awesome. Cruise has had his chances……many more than most would get. He’s nothing but a tool and only because of his own ego. I don’t believe he wants to “help” anything or anyone unless it serves his own purposes. And if it only serves an individuals purpose, than who and what is it “helping”.

  307. Alex Castillo

    Yeah Ronnie,
    We are here to help till the cows come home. Viva La Revolucion and long live the Reformed Scientology. The Old Man will be having a ball watching us!!

    Thanks for the ack :))

    Truly, love


  308. Serious question, is this why LRH said something to the tune of nothing can be done about a true psychopath and considered them supressive persons because they could not be helped? I am paraphrasing something I read so forgive me if I am off base.
    I mean, I don’t think there is a drug or really any truly helpful therapy for a sociopath,/psychopath that I am aware of. They just ARE!

  309. I suspect Tom will come to his senses fairly soon and reach out to Katie.

    Having Suri say, “Why don’t you live with me and Mommy anymore Daddy?”-may be what it takes. If that doesn’t break you down a father and reach right into your heart and move you to tears, then maybe you no longer have a heart.
    It’s not that easy to walk away from a wife/mother and adoring baby girl.

  310. Li'll bit of stuff

    Nice reminder, Valkov.

  311. Li'll bit of stuff

    ealadha, yay! Ditto my long held view!

  312. You know it is really odd, but you could see it in the press during that time period. Everything was false. The jumping on the couch pretending to be head over heels in love. The Matt Lauer interview. I mean there was a period of time when he was absolutely channeling Miscavige. And I wasn’t even paying that much attention during that whole time, but what I did see always seemed hollow and totally fake (both the good and the bad).
    Honestly, I don’t think Tom Cruise even knows who he is at all. I don’t think anyone does or will until he figures it out.
    Full disclosure, I just don’t like the guy. He is a shell.

  313. I will buy this book and if I ever come into some money that will help save some of these people. I will never forget this bullshit that is going on. IT IS LITERALLY TERRIFYING. One does not reazlize how bad it is until one experiences psychopothy for themselves.

    Take good care. You are wonderful for helping so many. Thank you.

  314. Alex Castillo

    RD and others,
    You have not responded to my post yet and I hope you are taking some time to think about what you said in your post. Please get the idea that we are not against free thinking, because in the game of helping the human race become a better race, there is no room for competition. We are either attempting to help our fellow human beings or we re not. Do you understand what I am saying? LRH’s Scientology is not. repeat not, the ONLY WAY to improve conditions in one’s life but it has proved itself to be the fastest, least complicated way to successfully deal with what life dishes out to us day in and day out. It works. And that is what we are all about here. What we have experienced ourselves, we want for others.


  315. Li'll bit of stuff

    That comes somewhat as a surprise to me!
    Compare Singapore to South Africa, where I live.
    The situations are the exact opposite to what you
    have just described, based on the multitude / absence
    of laws and restrictions, in each case respectively.

  316. You may recall the line from the old TV ad, “Texas – it’s like a whole ‘nother country.”

    It’s actually true. What Texas has, that lots of other states don’t, is an honest-to-God group identity/dynamic/beingness. There’s a unique culture here, with its own set of broadly agreed upon ethnics, that goes way back to its early struggles for independence from Mexico, its short time as an independent republic, and its joining with the United States.

    The native character of Texans was hammered out in a hot forge of events that were similar to those that birthed America. There’s an independence of spirit here that is noticeable, as soon as you encounter it. It’s infectious, and very attractive. Perhaps that’s why so many free thetans are coming here.

  317. Li'll bit of stuff

    Ioo% accurate observations Theo!

  318. Tony…(winks)…do you think my Kirstie should go blonder and heavier?
    Or more brunette and skinnier?
    Either way it has to be Pre chin implant!

  319. Li'll bit of stuff

    Me too, Randy! This lady has some seriously
    potent “juice” in the bottle—if you ask me!

  320. Alex, any data about Bill Robertson is appreciated, as I think too little has been published about him.

    It is not my intent to invalidate you or even disagree with you.
    However, there are also contrary data on his timeline, from what you have posted. For example, you say “he was not even Tech trained”, yet my understanding has been that he was a trained Class VIII auditor, from the original Class VIII course.

    Other possibly contrary data are, that he later signed off on holding a Comm EV of Miscavige, and then signed off on the results of the CommEv, which were essentially that Miscavige was an SP.

    And more contrary data: to this day many reports of the Ron’sOrgs are that they deliver the standard LRH Bridge up through OTIII. Past that point reports are that the pre-OT has the option to do the LRH upper levels, or the CBR upper levels. Plus they deliver the “original OT levels” dropped by the CoS.

    The snapshots in time of your own experience with CBR you have posted seem to indicate he was seriously keyed in at that time. This makes sense if he was connected to DM at the time, as well, as having participated in some LRH research program. Those were by all accounts pretty wild, not to mention “crazy”, times

    I might speculate that later when he went about creating the original “Free Zone”, before the Ron’s Orgs were differentiated from it, he de-PTSed after getting away from DM, and set up the Ron’s Orgs largely along standard tech lines.

    I don’t see a big difference between this situation and the reports of those who observed LRH acting in ways they considered “crazy”. Any person may have a “crazy” streak, or have episodes of “craziness” in his lifetime, and still be a creator of VFPs (Valuable Final Products, for non-scientologists). CBR, or LRH for that matter, would not be history’s first “eccentric geniuses”, let’s call them?

    From the HCO POLICY LETTER OF 27 SEPTEMBER 1966 Issue II
    (Also issued as HCOB, 27 Sept. 66, same title):

    “The identification or labeling of an antisocial personality cannot be done honestly and accurately unless one also, in the same examination of the person, reviews the positive side of his life.
    All persons under stress can react with momentary flashes of antisocial conduct. This does not make them antisocial personalities.
    The true antisocial person has a majority of antisocial characteristics.
    The social personality has a majority of social characteristics.”

    I think there is more to the CBR/Ron’sOrg story than we know, and their overall actual degree of “standardness” is yet to be determined, perhaps by an impartial “ecumenical council”, when such comes to exist.

  321. Post Of the Month! Thank you, Alex. That was riveting!

    Let me add, that my viewpoint on the spiritual enhancement tech of Scientology is precisely the same as yours.

  322. This is very interesting to an American Theo.

  323. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yay, nay, maybe,any comment please?

  324. So happy to hear about the perrys! If you ever talk to Mari, tell her that I would love to talk to her.

  325. Reader, there have been attempts to involve the FBI and other agencies.

    In a nutshell, when questioned, people in the Hole simply say they are there voluntarily, doing penance.

  326. I think it is obvious that Marty has had an open door policy to anyone sincerely reaching for help. His comm lines are pretty wide open. He isn’t exactly hiding behind barbed wire and an army of security police.

  327. To Alex Castillo.
    Dear Alex,
    Thanks for the story, yes I do understand your point very much and I can tell you that during those 35 years, I also was keeping scientology working. I’m a class V auditor and also a data evaluator. But I was never a staff member.
    Robertson is a controversial character. Some of his statements look more like Philipp K Dick than L Ron Hubbard!
    Now there are things he is saying which are quite smart. He was one of the first to spot the coup of Miscavige, and to be unreasonable with it, I found that recently while gathering some data.
    Most of us here were under the yoke of Miscavige.
    Now, my point is that Scientology is exposed to “improvement”, I mean people highly interested on the subject which are going to create it. Extrapolate data from data, connecting the dots. Actually any C/S is doing it.
    A C/S can easly mock up some questions for finding a BPC on a particular PC, or group of PC’s.
    People subjected to Miscavige need really some questions asking for BPC. You could dream up a Miscavige tech repair list for exemple, with question like “Were FNs been denied to you?” or “Has the examiner waited the meter to play dixie?”, or anything. It’s a kind of “resistiveness”.
    So, you “Not’s” the question for OT’s, and you really get a rundown. Is it a new tech? No, it’s an application.
    Yes, I know, you can still be simple and do an “LIC” on “your experience with Miscavige”!

    Is creativity squirreling?

    Is the bridge of Robertson, above Not’s, a squirreling or a possible off spring of LRH?

    There is no upper bridge above solo not’s and the original OT levels (4,5,6,7) in Scientology, or it’s well hidden. (I don’t talk about New OTVIII which is full of outpoints)
    In one hand, you have KSW and on the other and, there is the urge of people to advance further. Is this really in contradiction?
    I’m not advocating Ron’s org, it’s a mere exemple. But I don’t think Scientology will stay still. For that you will need a group like RTC, with tech inspectors!
    You see, nobody is going to change how to run an ARCX, or to challenge that if TA goes up on NED one should find the earlier beginning or the earlier incident.
    But, Marty said somewhere that he thought that he didn’t see a reason not to run Not’s on a Clear (Marty tell me if I am wrong, actually someone told me you wrote that somewhere).
    And, yes, that’s quite possible. At least a bit of it, as It makes sense that Clears are in an awful confusion on what they have to handle. Most of them still think they have a bank on the first dyn!
    Doing this would be out KSW?
    There will be always someone to evaluate data, and this will change with the viewpoint.
    Like rediscovery of lost tech, plenty of it.
    But the rediscovery of this or that might qualify for a rundown.
    You cannot stop people from thinking, especially those who have really grasped the tech.
    It’s on the student tapes. Gradient of abilities : duplication, then understanding, then ability to create it.
    It’s not this simple idea : let’s go back to pure LRH and everything will be fine! To apply the tech, yes. But to stop thinking or evaluating? And to permit to think open the door to an evolution, this is life.

  328. I think people expect a lot from someone getting up the bridge. Auditing is one thing but education is vital . Not just education in Scientology. But if a person does know what is going on in the world or about people or about cultures or social situations he will always look like an outpoint.
    The last time I had to drive in Italy I thought any number of people were going to get out of their car and come pull me off the road. Especially on those roads that go round and round and round in a circle for an exit. Especially driving a car I had rented in London. It didn’t mean I wasn’t clear. In what you can expect from someone on the bridge, this is an AGREEMENT, as in “What we expect of a Scientologist”. By the way, compare that to David and Tom’s behavior if you really want to measure the treason.

  329. Laughter!

  330. I see. So we disregard certain LRH Policies, EDs & FOs as they were usurped by one pyscho? That seems rather wimpy. As to whether policy is tech or not, read Keeping Admin Working. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not in agreement with all policy, etc. I think the SO is where LRH made a wrong turn even though I have huge admiration for many SO members and their dedication. I just have hard time with the argument that the Indy field is standard when the Indy field can only exist by ignoring a boatload of LRH writings in the form of policy, EDs & FOs. I’m not trying to make anyone wrong but it’s something I personally have a hard time ignoring. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t individual auditors in the Indy field getting great results. More power to them. But I don’t see Planetary Clearing in the cards without a real management in place. Note: My highest admiration to Marty, Mike, JB and all the other whistleblowers. Keep up the amazing work and thanks.

  331. thanks, done. Hi Lars!

  332. With all due respect, condescending comments don’t help make your case. The orders I was referring to are FOs. LRH wrote, “Therefore, to keep Scientology working, all (italics) of Scientology, one must insist on standard tech and admin. The principles of unvarying adherence to precise technology, constant alertness to tech alter-is and insistence that every Scientologist abide by these rules apply just (italics) as severely to the third dynamic technology of standard administration – POLICY. POLICY embraces the basic duties of a staff member, the precision technology of management in all its aspects and at every echelon, and standard ethics and justice procedures. Policy is found in HCO PLs, Flag Orders, Central Bureaux Orders, LRH EDs, taped lectures and other duly authorized and on-source administrative issues.” – LRH, Keeping Admin Working

  333. Yes, I downloaded the Kindle ap for PC, so I can read it via the PC.

  334. Thanks SKM. Inspired by watching a couple of the political debates, I am into “impartial moderating” at the moment .:-)

  335. threefeetback

    At least they have come to an agreement as to which valence will be dominant.

  336. BTW MaBu, I did not read that book you advised. But I have been practicing what you pointed out for me to work on. Thank you, I’m getting better at communicating every day!

  337. constant vigilance

    To LDW and The Oracle, Thank you for more information on the L’s. I’m very glad to hear there were many wins for you and others on the L’s. I had only seen people around me get messed up on the L’s and not do well in life after it. I think you hit the nail on the head saying you must be fully set up to receive them before even starting them. I am looking forward to getting the L’s in the indie field.

  338. Thank you Dixi88, very true. Divine Love knows no condition because it looks past the roles abd sees the souls.

    Underneath all the layer of pain and ignorance lies a beautiful child of God. A seed, needing water in the dark.

  339. @ann 😉

  340. Tunedale LOL

  341. Good explanation Mike. It is sad that these people are so willing to be abused.
    I know I’ve been there in my life. Some people are just hell bent on kicking their own ass through a chosen perpetrator.

    I hope they come to their senses.

  342. You know we will, Ronnie. And you know you will be received as an honored guest if you come out here.

  343. Great quote and post, Oracle!

  344. Thanks for jumping in on this one, guys. Yes, the Indie Scientologist Group Guidelines state what they state. My wife Karry started the group and wrote the guidelines. And the group has continued to expand steadily since it’s inception.

    Thank you all for contributing to this wonderful purpose!

  345. martyrathbun09

    For the record you are wrong. Not only on your false attribution to me, but on many other counts. Rather than looking for leaders, my sincere advice to you is, find yourself.

  346. martyrathbun09

    Might as well run it by WDC.

  347. martyrathbun09

    Listen Troll, there has not been a single ounce of pc information disclosed. Unlike your boss, I hold it as a sacred trust. Now, report back to your boss this: I have not even begun to put ethics in on he and his boyfriend. I am only getting warmed up. In fact, next ethics gradient looks like another book devoted to the subject of their unnatural and suppressive bromance – which includes serial felonies they both engaged in – none of which came from any protected, counseling process.

  348. It’s alluding to the size of a beings “sphere of influence”.

  349. Our s*** don’t stink (or should I have said “poo”? No, not “poo.”)

  350. Woah, Puppy! This is an out-dated view shared by no one but Scientologists with a convenient circuit that makes the field of psychiatry as a whole an enemy without truly LOOKING. Do YOU personally know any psychiatrists? Have YOU personally observed psychiatrists who view their charges as enemies whom they must denigrate?

    Just because “Scientology contains plenty of concepts to describe other people’s [so-called] misbehavior” does NOT give Scientology a monopoly on understanding of humanity.

  351. Exactly correct advice, Marty.

  352. Actually Hubbard did not write that policy letter. It slips my mind right now who did. But I used to know. Hubbard asked someone to do something about people ripping off his staff. The policy letter stating people who left the Sea Org were “out ethics cats” was the “handleing” done, but Hubbard did not write it.

  353. Hubbard actually did not write that. Someone else did.

  354. Oooo, baby, say it to me just like that! I might just faint!

  355. Before you convert the Kindle book in Calibre to an .epub file for use on the Nook, you will have to download the free Kindle reading app for your PC. Once you have done that and you verify that you can read the book on your PC, open Calibre. Tell it to Add a book. In the dialogue box that comes up, navigate to the My Kindle Content folder in My Documents. The downloaded book will have a name such as BN004N851E0_BOK.azw. Click on the .azw file ignoring the others that were downloaded along with it. Once you’ve imported it into Calibre, follow the Calibre instructions to convert it to .epub, which is the Nook format. The first time you use Calibre you may have to download some plug-ins. I can send you some detailed instructions if you email me. Marty has my email address. I just converted Marty’s book last night.

  356. Marty, I really enjoyed your new book The Scientology Reformation. It told me exactly why the church of Scientology is dead, which is something you have been saying for at least 3 years. Comparing the Scientology scene to the reformation of Christianity 500 years ago was really enlightening.

  357. Kevin,

    As I see it, the correct organization that LRH envisioned can and will be re-constructed, rehabilitated, reformed and brought to be in time. As bad as things have become, it may be decades, and there may be many evolutions along the way. Nevertheless, first things first. Now it’s a Danger condition for the subject of Scientology itself, and the Indie movement is a bypass and handle. It’s not the epitome of Scientology as it ought to be – not at all. However, there appears to be no other way it to preserve LRH’s real legacy and hope, given the data before our eyes. All those policies, the theory of the org board and all – those are useful and will be part of the picture eventually. The sequence is Ethics-Tech-Admin!

    One more comment regarding this whole “BIG BEING vs. DBs/small beings” issue. I think that taking LRH’s comments about “Big Beings” so literally is symptomatic of someone who is actually quite low on the tone scale (ref. SOS Chart of Human Evaluation). I don’t think that LRH’s comments on “Big Beings” were never intended to be so literal! When LRH wrote PLs and FOs and made statements to other SO members, he probably was expecting SO and staff to interpret these in a more high toned spirit – not literally to calculate 1 of every 18 persons who walked through a door would be “DBs.”

    Problem here is – David Miscavige and evidently Tom Cruise believe in this notion of “big beings” quite literally, and DM and TC are demonstrably lacking in ARC for their fellow man. Such an attitude is evidence to me of their actual tone levels.

  358. martyrathbun09


  359. Correction – last sentence paragraph 2: “When LRH wrote PLs and FOs and made statements to other SO members, he probably was expecting SO and staff to interpret these in a more high toned spirit – not literally to calculate 17 of every 18 persons who walked through a door would be “DBs.” (1 out of 18 would be the supposed “big being.”)

  360. Well said, Calvin. But (as a musician) I must ask, why is “looking” superior to “listening?” Why wouldn’t the same mind set apply to “listen” instead of just “looking?” Why wouldn’t one listen AND look?

  361. iPat formerly Pat

    Okay Oracle, we get it; you don’t like Romney. But I have to tell you that I don’t come to this blog to read political comments. I find it offensive and a total turn-off. Surely there’s a political blog where you could post all day long about how you feel. Or maybe go work at a campaign headquarters. I don’t know & I don’t care. I just wish you’d take it elsewhere.

  362. Hey Bob! You have your facebook settings on lockdown! Karry’s trying to find a way to get a hold of you!

  363. Thank you for the reference, mw. Google found the full text here: http://www.suppressiveperson.org/sp/archives/452
    Per this HCOB, DBs should be handled gently… “Degraded beings find any instruction painful, as they have been painfully indoctrinated with violent measures in the past. … One uses very simple low-level processes on a degraded being, gently. … So he or she should not be on staff. … A degraded being is not a suppressive as he can have case gain. But he is so PTS that he works for suppressives only.”
    Interesting to see how David Miscavige and Tom Cruise apply (not) this policy to those they consider DB’s.
    Miscavige himself seems the foremost apostle of alter-is, from his former post as SP IC up to the present: “A degraded being lies to his seniors, avoids orders covertly by alter-is, fails to comply, supplies only complex ideas that can’t ever work (obstructive) and is a general area of enturbulence, often mild seeming or even “cooperative,” often even flattering, sometimes merely dull, but consistently alter-ising or noncomplying.”
    The phrase “Big Beings” is simply an offhand mention, apparently not a core concept: “Some thetans are bigger than others. None are truly equal. But the degraded being is not necessarily a natively bad thetan. He is simply so PTS and has been for so long that it requires our highest-level tech to finally undo it after he has scaled up all our grades. Degraded beings are about eighteen to one over Big Beings in the human race (minimum ratio).”
    IIRC, Cruise has “scaled up all the grades” but Miscavige has not?

  364. “WE” didn’t just witness any such thing.

    What I personally witnessed, just now, with your comment is a troll, an idiot or an idiot troll incorrectly “assuming” and stating a quite suppressive generality. There is a difference between a silly or irrelevant generality and a suppressive generality. Yours was the latter.

  365. Thanks T.O. I haven’t done any Ls but I like your post, coming as it does from a view exterior to the forces and situations you are talking about. 🙂

  366. A baseball bat placed in the correct position is fairly effective at close range.

  367. Dear Born in the SO,
    I understand what you are saying. The people in control of the scene where you grew up were not practicing Scientology. They were all very PTS, at best. Your observation that parents are supposed to spend time with their children and help them and be personally supportive is absolutely correct. I am so sorry that you missed that while growing up. But there is always hope. You can, little by little, fill in those empty spaces where something nice is supposed to be. Your parents have the potential to cognite, discover their “empty spaces where something should exist”, too. And I do hope that they do so. But meanwhile, you are in charge of your own destiny, and are the creator of your own universe. You can create that universe the way you know it should be. Please continue the process you have begun! And please keep communicating to people here on this blog and similar ones.

  368. Barb,
    I’m thinkin you may have overdosed on the Kool aide. Try upchucking!

  369. “Maybe I’m an optimist, but Tom can come out of this.”

    Maybe so but without some quick action and a major dose of humility it will be like steak comes out of a grinder. It’s called hamburger and it’ll be a tad greasy because of the company he keeps!

  370. Jeeeeeze Calvin………….give it a rest for christs sake!

  371. One does have to wonder what there was about the world of Scientology from the 50s onward that pulled in so many self-obsessed nutjobs/assholes who rose to prominence in the CoS and stayed there sometimes for freaking decades (Captain Bill, Bill Franks, Miscavige, Cruise, etc etc etc – all those “high ranking folks” chronicled throughtout this blog and others for the past few years). And the celebrity worship in Scientology. I guess it doesn’t take a chosen woman very long to decide to leave her boyfriend and hop into bed with Tom Cruise (though I’m sure she’s had MANY cognitions about this since). I’m not interested enough in reading about a movie star’s insanity to pay for it.

  372. It is his time to reach for the sanity available to him here!

    It’s way past time, mate, but real help is out here, if he just reaches for it. It’s a fact that the top tech people on the planet are now in the Independent field. Anyone in TC’s state would be well advised to dig their way under the razor wire as fast as they can, and holler for help. It truly cannot be found inside the corporation’s implant palaces.

  373. I always thought it might have something to do with the state seal of Texas being so similar to the SO symbol. Trying to figure out where to go, I figure many ex-SO would take it as a sign or good omen. I’m sure the fact the state is equally far away from the strongholds of Fla and CA can’t hurt. Many SO born/ lived in the temperate climates of CA and Florida, maybe liked it, and Texas offers a similar climate without cult strongholds.

    You can look and compare the SO symbol to the TX seal here: http://www.lsjunction.com/seal.htm

  374. Charles "Chuck" Bondi ~ 34 years...

    And this is NOT from Tom’s sessions!

  375. Yes! And if you want to hear the 8th dynamic explained perfectly watch Wayne’s “Wishes Fulfilled” video on utube.

  376. No, not what I mean. There is no “higher authority” in these kind of matters.

    I have in mind something more along the lines of the top tech terminals from each group getting together, comparing notes, figuring out what the basic differences really are, IF they actually exist, and laying them to rest. I mean people like yourself and Jim Logan and others, and Max and who ever are comparable tech terminals from the R.O.s. There is no hurry, maybe in a generation or two.

    Just as has been slowly happening in the Christian world, with the various long-separated branches little-by-little restoring their “communion”(that’s what they call it) with each other, by communicating in a conference of equals.

    It is not a high priority and I don’t expect it to happen soon, there are plenty of other fish to fry meanwhile, like the Blowfish Miscavige and his piranhas need frying, and just really getting Independent Scientology going, dePTSing the publics of the world from the Blowfish poison, and just living!

    Optimistically, someday everything is in Normal, there exists the leisure time to have such “ecumenical meetings”(still speaking from a “religious” angle) between the tech terminals of divergent groups, and it will be good. At worst they will simply agree to disagree.

    It took the offshoots of Christianity 1,000 years or more to start on such a course; I don’t think it will take that long in Scientology

    In the meantime, I believe the R.O.s are and have been quietly doing a creditable job training auditors and keeping the show on the road, so there is no urgent need to do anything there.

    There can be no WDC, no talking down, there can only be conversations between equals.

  377. Well, I’m with you there. TC was never presented the same threat of losing his eternity that the rest of us former Kool-Aid drinkers bought into when we were told how miserable we were and how our only hope was more Kool-Aid. He was sought out and coerced into believing he was superior.

    History is rich with such selection and inclusion in exclusive, so-called superior “clubs.” Humans (oh yes, HUMANS – body AND soul) are inherently social beings, vulnerable to the need for acceptance among our peers. Simultaneously, we seek individual “specialty” that must also fit into the group construct – thus, we have groups of perceived “elites.”

    Regardless of whether you are Adam and Eve’s snotty-nosed great-great grand brat or an attendent floor sweeper among the Loyal Officers, YOU are part of a group that prides itself in its characteristics that distinguish it from others.

    Don’t think so? Then go ahead and place yourself among ALL of those who describe themselves as Independent Scientologists, ex- Scientoloists, anti-Scientoloists, non-Scientologists, or others. Where do you fit?

    And, yes, I defy you to NOT fit.

  378. I’m afraid you are mistaken. HCO PL 12 Oct 1967 Issue II titled “Sea Org Resignation, For Personnel Files” says, in part:

    “Any person resigning from the Sea Org is not to be employed in any Scn org ever as they are out-ethics cases and PCs (DBs).”

    It is signed L. Ron Hubbard, Founder and initialed “LRH:jp” at the bottom indicating Ron Hubbard wrote it and whomever is “jp” typed it for him.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  379. Charles "Chuck" Bondi ~ 34 years...

    Me thinks; DAVID MISCVIGE has gone off the deep end. Furthermore; Me thinks Tom Cruise is oblivious to the manipulation DAVID MISCAVIGE has put him through. . .’Hang tough, T.C., D.M. is a wuss that will flight / rather than FIGHT. Do you REALLY think D.M. has T.C’s best interest at heart?!? Get real.

  380. Hi;

    What’s ‘lockdown’? It seems to work fine … but I’m a kind of a goose at these things. What can I do?

  381. Tom, if you are reading this, everybody from Henry Monroe wishes you well.

    For those who don’t know,Tom Cruise went to school here in Ottawa at Henry Monroe. My kids were there too.

    Wishing you well Tom.

  382. Thank you!

  383. I’m afraid you are mistaken. HCO PL 12 Oct 1967 Issue II titled “Sea Org Resignation, For Personnel Files” says, in part:

    “Any person resigning from the Sea Org is not to be employed in any Scn org ever as they are out-ethics cases and PCs (DBs).”

    It is signed L. Ron Hubbard, Founder and initialed “LRH:jp” at the bottom indicating Ron Hubbard wrote it and whomever is “jp” typed it for him.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  384. martyrathbun09

    The problem such groups create is elevation of literalism. There are an infinity of contradictions or paradoxes within Scientology writings when so analyzed. Only when one understands the lot and experiences many results through applications does one see that the only paradoxes are those created by one’s own literal-thinking mind. To create a board to solve some problem that only exists in minds that don’t understand the subject as a whole and apply it to result will result in the exportation of literalist interpretations du jour – to wit, corporation scientology II

  385. Dayam… I did L10, L11, and L12 right after going Clear and doing KTL, LOC…. how come I am not a God?


  386. EnthralledObserver

    OMG… I am seriously bursting with excitement to see the next ethics gradient then… bring it, and fast… !!!!!!!!! 😀

  387. Kevin – I don’t say to disregard anything. The policy is to handle 3rd dynamic functions and actions. I come from an OEC/FEBC and Data Series completion background. I said the FO had been usurped for ulterior motive and purpose. I don’t think any here would believe it doesn’t take organization and admin tech to bring about wide scale clearing.

    That is different than suppressive control and enforced “think” on the organizations. But we should follow the Ideal Org PL from the Data Series and the Standard Admin Policy of 9 November 1968. Therein it states “the best organization is one which has a thetan over it, methods of working out its problems, basic actions and a good desirable product. It adapts itself to its environment or surroundings or conditions of operation so as to expand to greater or lesser degree. Such an organization must have a clear-cut purpose and fill a definite need in order to survive.”

    In the PL of 25 Jan 71 Squirrel Admin is the statement:
    “This is the basic test of all administrative solutions. DID THEY WORK? … Solutions that work are therefore routinely used to handle the situation to which they apply are then called STANDARD ADMIN.”

    In the PL of 11 April 1970 Third Dynamic Tech ..
    “In applying HCO Policy Letters, you see that by following or continuing certain Third Dynamic procedures you remedy, handle or continue certain situations which relate to groups. … The need of organizations to serve the First Dynamic Tech beginning in 1949 forced further and further into view the absence of Third Dynamic Tech and its vital need. …
    The short span of men’s lives inhibits the full development of any one subject in one lifetime. Thus there is a lot of room for further expansion of our Third Dynamic Tech. But the basic laws can be found in it and many exact drills are contained in it and it has great value in any zone of application.”

    Much of the FO’s, CBO’s, etc are how to manage orgs. Once LRH was gone we see that there is flaw which allowed a misguided control of the org’s and they are now way off the path to freedom. My personal opinion is that the Independent field will find what level of admin and policy it needs to operate. That is different than an enforced from above control of all of the field. I agree that the valid 3rd dynamic organizational technology and procedures developed by LRH will help us to expand. Those that don’t apply and aren’t needed will not be used.

    I don’t take this as pick and choose. The 4th dynamic circumstances and comm lines have changed. If the decision is to use that degree of admin necessary to get the technology product then all in the end shall work out. Robotic application of every sentence because Ron wrote it is not the answer. A conceptual understanding of the basics and using these is the key.

    You and I have more in common than we have in disagreement. There is infinite valued logic to apply here. We should also learn from the abhorrent demonstration we can view, of the RCS’s use of this admin tech, and how off the rails something can get.

    Just my thoughts on the issue.

  388. You can “befriend” Karry Campbell or “message” her on Facebook and then Karry will help you from there!

  389. Calvin-what a post! I have no personal ill will toward TC-I would love to see him get better and get away from DM. He does have some responsibility for the conditon he is in though.

  390. Wikipedia: The beatings will continue until morale improves
    “The beatings will continue until morale improves” is a famous quotation of unknown origin. It literally denotes how morale, such as within a military unit or other hierarchical environment, will be improved through the use of punishment. More importantly, the phrase is used sarcastically to indicate the counterproductive nature of such punishment or excessive control over subordinates such as staff in the workplace or children living at home.

    The most commonly cited story for the origin of the phrase comes from the Japanese Imperial Navy during World War II. Supposedly, the phrase was first used by a commander of the Japanese Submarine Force.

  391. Marty,

    Karry and I both read that at the same time and LAUGHED OUR FUCKING ASSES OFF!

  392. Strongly agree, Pat. Love Oracle’s blinding insights and comments, but politics belongs on another blog!

  393. That is, LOFAO at your “WDC” comment!

  394. Li'll bit of stuff

    Very good point, Nance,! Perhaps because looking
    is possible in the absence of sound, Have you ever
    heard of “listening” for your keys?Or being able to
    “listen” to body language to discern whether someone
    is lying? Though blind people can do some astounding
    things with a highly developed sense of hearing, they
    do still unfortunately, miss so much due to the loss of
    visual perception. The oft repeated phrase; “look, don’t
    listen” probably has it’s basis in the ease with which
    people can tell lies, rather then the amount of effort to
    change something visually!
    Still, I’m with you on your advice—(am listening!)

  395. Tom Cruise; Are you really this blind?!?

  396. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks, newcomer and TO! You may not be aware
    that I have gone to vast amounts of expense and
    trouble to simply get an acknowledgement from
    Marty on at least one occasion. He knows what I’m
    alluding to! You don’t. No defence of him necessary
    because he has declined to to answer!

  397. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yep! Very sad, the depths to which he has descended!

  398. Ditto – “– literally, they will suck the life out of you body and soul and enjoy doing it.” sounds like the CO$

  399. :-). Blonder and heavier fo-sho. Have to admit that is an awesome look for her…

  400. Joe Pendleton

    Steve, you speak the sooth my friend. The ARC Triangle rules in my opinion. I do break it occasionally and I regret that soon afterwards. It is truly a secret to life. So is what Ron talks about in the 1954 lecture “The Power of Consideration.” He says “Well, the clue to happiness is being interested in life. And their happiness is as great as they can create it. And they will not experience happiness from any other quarter than their own generation…………The anatomy of it is simply this, no more, no less than this: ….. It’s how much interest can he generate himself, how much can he himself keep interested in life, that’s what makes him appy. Because happiness is application of self to existence. And that’s all there is to happiness.”

    My recipe for “good living”:

    1. Find ways to USE the ARC Triangle to improve conditions (be friendlier to folks, etc)

    2. Find ways to be more INTERESTED in things (find things to be interested in)

    A good start anyway.

    Thanks Steve for reminding me.

    Joe P.

  401. Interesting concept. I can see that dm has a certain sphere of influence, but it is a destructive influence. I see him as a teeny weeny thetan. He produces large overts yet is teeny weeny. Go figure….

  402. Li'll bit of stuff

    An aside, for you newcomer,
    I recall very well when you first began posting on this
    blog! In particular — how well you were received!
    someone remarked that you might be a troll or some
    such derogatory inval? And I believe it was Marty who
    asserted that you had passed (the legit. test) ” with
    flying colors!” That, to me was a genuine welcome,
    and paved the way for you to have a great time
    on this blog. I’m genuinely chuffed for you, since I
    really enjoy your postings, for what they bring.

    On the other hand, I went about things somewhat
    clumsily, and had an extremely hard time paying for
    it. The Oracle stepped in and put a stop to the
    “carnage” along with a few other fair minded souls,
    including ” windwalker” who did his best, to show
    me the error of my ways.

    So then, at risk of being shot down again—do you
    appreciate it when you actually get an ANSWER to
    a sincere, relevant question – as opposed to a mere comment?

  403. The totalitarian effect of DM / COB came to mind this evening when I chanced upon a series of reports on China’s ghost cities: whole cities designed for millions, with huge infrastructure investments — and big, empty buildings (cf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzLRocyhUIo&feature=fvwrel or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-JjwYHPhs&feature=related).

    One of the causes is that the Chinese government tends strongly to run things by stats. If a state-owned company has a target of so many buildings to be built, the driving factor is meeting the target, not meeting the needs of buyers. (Thursdays, 2 PM-ish anyone?)

    The similarity to the empty ideal orgs is startling — the push for show absent substance. The push for stats that are divorced from reality. The build it and they will come mentality.

    That these very similar trends would emerge in two totalitarian systems, one a nation, one a multinational church, struck me as probably reflecting some deeper principle at work.

    One part of what is at work may be the human tendency (well described by Buckminster Fuller) of people to live their lives with attention bounded by what is geographically and temporally close to them.

    If we look at CoS corporate weekly stats and regular presentations, or China’s booming but empty real estate, what is missing is in part the longer term. China builds a city for millions and few come — so who pays for the bow wave of expenses pushed into the future for maintenance of all that physical plant?

    CoS corporate does the same thing with ideal orgs — a building that is not generating income is a net drain for utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc. A short term apparency of affluence is used to mask a long term danger (or lower) condition, and it is masked by statistical sleight of hand and dishonesty.

    Nothing wrong with using stats to measure success — that is actually very important in my opinion. But to measure only quantity and not quality is incomplete. And to cherry pick stats to create an appearance while ignoring longer term adverse consequences is dishonest. (That is also at the heart of major bank collapses, the Enron scandal, the Keating 5 mess, you name it).

    So nothing wrong with stats, but as with any tool, you have to know how to use them. As someone once said (Twain, Disraeli, whoever), there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

  404. Many of us are reading and soaking up data ‘like a sponge’. I am leaning towards – read it, drill it, do it. We are now each really totally responsible.

  405. “And more contrary data: to this day many reports of the Ron’sOrgs are that they deliver the standard LRH Bridge up through OTIII.”

    CBR also altered OT II.

  406. No creation of any kind of board. I’m not for that. Simply trained and experienced tech terminals with many hours in the chair conversing. Is that so difficult to envision? I had thought that kind of thing has taken place at your house. No reports or interpretations need be written nor published, nothing to export. I’m talking about the essence of communication and A-R-C, like happens on this blog.

    Or not. I suppose it is not really necessary unless a ridge occurs. I’m not a big proponent of inspection before the fact. In the end, I guess someday I’ll find out for myself whether or not R.O. does standard tech. There really is no other way.

  407. Amazing how fast the new book is arriving from UK to DK. Mine just came. So exciting to read it. Thanks.

  408. I think “ecumenical council” was perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. It was at best a loose analogy. I hope I have clarified what I mean.

  409. Theo Sismanides

    Go, man! Go go go!!! You are on a roll, Marty! Nothing passes by unattended! That’s great, man.

  410. Although I am just an interesting and compassionate observer, I can see your viewpoint. It is more a scientific one than a religious one. Science and technology evolve; basic tenets of a religion do not.
    As far as I have understood Scientology is a (spiritual) technology. During his life Hubbard was constantly researching and developing his technology. I cannot see why this could not be continued, now that there are a lot of people who are really experts on the subject.
    There are differences between misapplying, alter-issing and evolving a subject. I think the real experts can differentiate. E.g. like David Mayo and Marty Rathbun (no disrespect to others of course). Did Hubbard not say something like: if it works, it is true? And did he not stress the workability of his technology?
    I think it depends on the viewpoint one takes. If one considers Scientology to be a religion, then the tenets, the technology cannot, may not be changed one iota. If you think more like a scientist (more like Hubbard himself probably), you are going to experiment in a responsible and ethical way. You may find something that really works!

  411. Marty, I am not looking for a leader, nor I am part of the litteral thinking minded attitude you decried very rightly. Doesn’t it appears on what I said? And “find yourself” is just a cheap advice, (Especially to a Not’s preOT!)
    I was just opposing the segregation idea undelying Kerry Campbell policy, and the inner racism of ex churchist against freezoner, especially Ron’s orger.
    It doesn’t mean I am pro this or that. Actually Ron’s org has a vision which would qualify them for being a sect (total vision of the world). So I’m not out to promote them… I have the feeling when I try to say what I say to be in an anticult forum which oppose scientology, I mean that the attitude of the church regarding independant, is the same than anticult regarding scientology, and amongst independant, you may see this attitude regarding freezoners, and amongst freezoners they also had this attitude regarding other freezoner not so well established, they have their squirrel too!
    Well just this feeling of “we are normal you are deviant” (KSW being used for playing the service fac, in order not to inspect really).
    We could compare with being a white man opposing the appatheid, but having been educated in it, and he would find in himself some racist attitude.
    It’s a feeling of fighting old conservatist ideas.
    Church of DM is like a radical right political side… then our view are moving to the left more or less,
    Anyway, Marty, very good for your book and your overall action, and I don’t hate you because you invalidate my com! Actually I still love you! Yes forever! I’m not looking for a leader, but you are one!
    Scott and Alex, I understand what you mean, really. You just want to stay with LRH, you are absolutely right on that point.
    Volkov, thanks for understanding.

  412. Oh dear. I thought that would be at the bottom of it, but hoped not. Thanks for your reply.

  413. Wow man,that is really good news.

  414. Anonymous Confused Person

    Wow. First time I’ve ever heard Mr. Miscavige speak. I didn’t expect him to lisp so much. Not that that has anything to do with the message (to claim so would be ad hominem of me), but it struck me. Also what struck me was his statement that “…but where someone fails to use that technology or insists on its /standard/ use; well, in that case, they make it tougher on everyone else.”. Wait, what? He’s attacking people like Mr. Rathbun for “squirrel tech”, but states that the standard use of “the technology” is a /bad/ thing?
    Also, I have a question for you folks who were in the organization: when you refer to Mr. Miscavige by his title-acronym, do you say “see-oh-bee” like Mr. Cruise did, or do you say “cob” (as in, “corn-on-the–“)?

  415. Thanks, I meant “if a person doesn’t know what is goin on…”

  416. Marty,

    I love your teasings.

    You have just released a book, and now, I’m waiting for your next release (book or whatever).

  417. For those who didn’t notice what Marty wrote:

    “I have not even begun to put ethics in on he and his boyfriend. I am only getting warmed up. In fact, next ethics gradient looks like another book devoted to the subject of their unnatural and suppressive bromance – which includes serial felonies they both engaged in – none of which came from any protected, counseling process.”

  418. OUCH! Bang! Bang!

  419. Is this the one that says they are “out ethics cats” as I mentioned above?

  420. Did you see him write that?

  421. I can recommend Trey Lotz.

  422. 🙂 θ

  423. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist shares it, so does Thomas Szasz another and here’s a link for possibly one of the more famous of psychiatrists, Karl Menninger and his views.

  424. HCOB 10 August 1982 OT Maxims
    “THE POWER (defined as light-year kilotons per microsecond) OF A THETAN IS MEASURED BY NOTHING ELSE THAN THE DISTANCE (defined as spherical spatial length) AROUND HIM IN HIS ENVIRONMENT THAT HE CAN CONTROL.

  425. Either way, you didn’t see him write it. You are assuming he did because of some symbols on the page. I was told he didn’t, but I am assuming the person who told me was telling the truth. Either way, we are both assuming something.

  426. The bitch slap worked! I am taking it somewhere else!

  427. Received the book this morning from Amazon France. Took 48 hours to get here probably because they sent it from the UK.

    To order the book from Amazon France, click on “Livres anglais et étrangers” in the “Rechercher” drop down menu, then type in the title of the book and you’re all set. Cost me €11,97 (approx. $15). Postage is free if you are a “Premium” customer.

    Am sending my resignation letter to OSA France today.

    Will translate it into English and post it soon.

  428. And if you don’t come to the blog to read political statements, I am glad you came to the blog anyway to bitch slap me.

  429. Something of this kind I have never read.

  430. Leonore,

    Perhaps you are right. Who knows?

  431. Actors, like Tom Cruise, have their own “real life” rolls to play. What will that life be? Will it be stuck in a movie like Ronald Reagan’s 1951 Comedy “Bedtime for Bonzo” or can TC mature into greatness like the June 12, 1987 speech at the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin: “Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall.”

    Some of the bravest souls in the world worked right next to David Miscavige, like Marty, Mike and others, walked away with nothing (no bribe money) in order to make information available to us, so we can decide for ourselves. Scientologists around the world have objectively investigated and applied the Doubt formula and then walked away from Scientology Inc.

    Bedtime for Bonzo or Tear down this wall???

  432. Marty,
    I agree with you completely and now understand, with the above succinct statement, the idea you were expressing some weeks back. There are any number of apparent contradictions or paradoxes in policy that one, literally interpreting any of various issues, could point out and or as is the case too often, then try and act out.

    There is no substitute for a full understanding. Judgment arises from this. And that judgment is vital or literalness is the idiocy du jour.

  433. “see-oh-bee”

  434. The “big being” concept sounds like a whole lotta button on self-importance by some not-quite-brights.

  435. Shocking but, not surprising. Thanks Marty.

  436. I think either way is ok. Example-“see-oh-be”could be abeviation for something like “chimp on board”.
    Also, per dict.com “cob” verb (Brit) to beat. Origin uncertain; probabaly Icelandic. “Kobbi” means seal. Hence the phrase “clubbed seals”.
    Language evolves. We have to stay up with it.

  437. Karen, I know, uh. How embarrassing! I think that was the last even I attended, just couldn’t take it anymore…

    Then DM has the audacity to return the favor, and proclaim; Tom Cruise “Is The Most ON-PURPOSE Scientologist I Know!” WOW!

    What an insult to All Real Scientologist especially SO Members.

    Least anyone out there thinks Marty is exaggerating, if you want collaboration and a real life display of Glee of Insanity, then just check out the You Tube Video of TC being interviewed by David Letterman. You Tube: Tom Cruise gets hysterical on Letterman.

    Tom is relating a story of him and his co-pilot flying across Colorado, wanting to go to a higher elevation, but not having enough oxygen for all three of them in the plane – including a passenger in the back.

    So he just shuts off the oxygen to the passenger in the back. The guy apparently began to suffer oxygen depravation…

    Even, king of 1.1, David Letterman was visibly a little taken back by the recounting of this incident (sprinkled with a little J&D for good measure) by an out- of- control- with- laughter, Cruise.

    Oh well, the passenger in the back who suffered oxygen depravation, and was probably scared shitless is probably just a DB anyway.

    Steve Poore

  438. Hey Marty or Mike: I remember a horrible story, from years ago.
    Could you fill us/me in Nan Herst Bowers

    What ever happened with her?

  439. I hear ya!

    Wait… what???

  440. Calvin,
    Yes I appreciate an answer to a question but I don’t expect one and my comment was blurted out because it seemed like your were “badgering the witness”.
    I also appreciate and note that you are not under the radar. Carry on!

  441. Well stated. I don’t in anyway want to represent that I can even remotely predict how this will all shake out but IMHO it will probably be somewhere in the middle where people of good will and intelligence, in & out, come together to salvage the scene once the midget disappears. As to discussions about policy, FOs, etc. I’ll leave that to those who are far more intelligent than I.

  442. And like the Macy’s parade inflated bags of hot air, it just takes a gust of wind to bring them down. Wait! I feel a breath of fresh air blowing right now!

  443. I must ask, why is “looking” superior to “listening?”

    In Scientology parlance, ‘looking’ means keenly observing a thing with all available perceptions, not just visio.

    ‘Listening’, in the context of the foregoing cliche means getting ones information about a thing on a second-hand basis, from the observations or data of others.

  444. When an auditor turns on one of his former PC’s, even if he is not using session material, it has a bad feel.

    Is that a generality? I suppose so.

    “There is one Tech and that is Standard Tech. Unfortunately there is other tech around. This other tech is a liability. Other tech is defined as any tech which is not Standard Tech.”

    KSW #1
    “By actual record the percentages are about twenty to 100,000 that a group of human beings will dream up bad technology to destroy good technology.” LRH.


  446. Thanks for repeating that MaBü to draw attention to it. I hear the sound of chickens finding their way home to roost.

  447. when??????????????? am shaking in antication! i can see you drawing out DM ,and he has no defence,this is gonna be stellar!

  448. theres also a trip to the chair if all the missing CoB exec’s dont turn up..of if they do and their thetans have shuffled on to venus!

  449. id say because he viewed her as a wholesome niave girl who really sees goodness in people,she has never remotely offended anyone and she had a massive crush on him,what he didnt figure was she had her own mind and still without truly offending decided to get out,i imagine its beyond rational to have to live and deal with such mind alterations,she has proven herself to be most independant,good for her.

  450. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    Hello Alex,

    Thank you for your story about Capt. Bill. i didn’t know it was so weird.hHere a short speech from him to some Scientologists:


    Weird !
    I just can’t believe this insanity, neither that from TC or DM !
    How come some people act like this ?
    Not easy to confront !

  451. what you seem to omit is that scientology is using these very diagnosis of psychiatry to access people themselves,same with psycology,its unfair to dismiss psychiatr/.ology when infact you come to the same conclusion by using other jargon,this is a blinding fact in scion. i have one question,how do you treat these individuals??? seriously,the very worst cases….the fact is you dont and they dont get admitted to the church,they have nothing to offer,so its left to the outside world to deal with,in order for scientolgy to move forward,this policy needs to be addressed and debated with sound minds on both sides,there has to be a compromise. thats how the world really works my friend

  452. I’m handled Lordburg12, politics does not belong here.

    Politics (from Greek politikos “of, for, or relating to citizens”) as a term is generally applied to the art or science of running governmental or state affairs, including behavior within civil governments, but also applies to institutions, fields, and special interest groups such as the corporate, academic, and religious segments of society. It consists of “social relations involving authority or power” and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.

    For some reason , from my view, I thought there was a political element to this blog and very much encompassed politics in this religious segment of society. It never occurred to me that politics did not belong here.

    But I stand corrected. I understand your distaste for such and I promise to stop dabbling in politics.


  453. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    Naz … thank your lucky stars you exited that loony bin just in time!

  454. like! im just an ordinary on sc and will never ever get a look in,same ole tactics then.

  455. every word here is what ive been waiting to hear,kudos to you,just fantastic. ty

  456. I just finished the book. A real pageturner.Reminded me of a book I once read about Goldman Sachs titled ‘La Banque’, written by a french journalist. It describes the dealings and schemes of this bank, e.g. with Greece, Russia and other victims.
    Miscavige is even more clever. He has the whole IAS turned into his personal fundraising enterprise, which gives him unlimited funds to do whatever he pleases. It is horrifying clever. He is a 21st century emperor Nero. Will he also die like a raving madman? I sincerely hope so.
    The book reads as a big J’ACCUSE. Hopefully many people in and out Scientology Inc. will get to read it. It is a big warning.

  457. Martin Padfield,
    The email addreess I gave you in incorrect. It’s castalex2009@hotmail.com.
    Sorry about that.

  458. DM ” completes” TC and vice versa

  459. Ah, it’s all over the UK newspapers. Doubt it’s true, but I am sure Dave will double and triple check.

  460. Yes I heard the story, of what happened. I saw a interview with someone who wrote a biography on Tom Cruise. He said Scientologists move along from things quickly! Like you lose, someone, you don’t dwell, you move along, The process is quick and I agree. Something people outside often cannot come to terms with. Like someone loses the body and would say something like he discarded the body in the mest universe. So the healing process would be quite quick. This applies to pretty much everything in life. Don’t know if you agree?

    They left the SO divorced and both live in different countries. Still 100% COS oriented. I tried to warn my mother about all my findings. So she does not get tricked for the IAS. I mean I did not know, DM was living the way he did. I thought if the Staff was making $50 a week. He was maybe making $200 a week. He maybe had a slighly better room. What a found, really shocked me. Come on a what $10000 tanning bed, personal gym, $40000 cigar box. Sucba Diving and rock climbing.

    So I would prefer a Declare or disconnection before I let my mother pay from her hard earned pay check. I mean hard earned after more then 2 decades in the SO, its not like she has alot. For DM to live the life style of someone with unlimted funds.

  461. This is totally off topic, but can someone give me the correct title of a HCOPL? I think it’s called “Ten Points of an Ad”, but I can’t find it under that title.

  462. do you think that maybe under it all,after he and p. cruz split up ,he realised that he had fucked up the best relationship he ever had with nicole kidman and had to work in the oppisite direction to deny this loss. i think she was the one and he knows it and has to redirect that furious energy into something else so he wont have to deal with it,maybe he has a heart underneath all this ass lickin clone DM replication,

  463. if and when the scientolgy inc is taken down and disbanded,what obstacles will there be for these people with gag orders to overcome,none ….if the present day church is disbanded,there is no legal issue as it wont exist as it does now,but will people talk? theyre sitting on their hands waiting for others to reform,and might cash in only according to how theyre painted,tough one.

  464. Li'll bit of stuff

    Aha Ronnie! Just widened a dfn. for me. Thanks!

  465. Li'll bit of stuff

    I’m cool with that bro’—you too!

  466. Those two videos are unbelievable. So many similarities to the Idle org creation. Very true point in the second video: The buildings are not being build for end user demands, but for private investors (DM), that want to hold an investment.

    In the case of the Ideal Orgs, that are paid by the public, but owned by CO$. The entire plan, is such a simple ponzi scheme.

    Whats going to happen is this: More and more Ideal orgs are going to open, while the number of scientologists, willing and able to pay for it, is going to go down in free fall. This will create a bubble and CO$ will self implode, as far as the practice of Scientology is concerned. But will remain real estate rich and can be considered a real estate developer.

    CO$ will not expand or attract many young people. Besides the ones that are already in. Just due to the fact of the internet. Now people google everything and the bad PR is already out there.

    The Ideal org are all smoke and mirrors. Something else is going to be planned, for more donations in the future. The problem, is its going to be the same people, that have to donate over and over again. Some may believe its getting out exchange.

  467. Oracle, I’ve never seen anyone take a bitch-slapping as graciously as you!

  468. It’s seven points of an Ad. PL 10 Feb 65, AD AND BOOK POLICIES. It’s in OEC Vol 2.

  469. In the LRH PRO pack is an HCOPL on making a News article
    which maybe what you are looking for.

  470. I think stealing $4000 dollars of parishoners money to have special shoes made is degraded! And that is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of financial irregularities!

  471. Thanks. That explains why I couldnt remember all ten points.

  472. Thank you darling. XXOO

    Now, just asking as now I am curious. Are we here involved with politics? Is this political here, this activity we are involved with here on this blog? As in, we are involving ourselves with the art or science of running a religious segment of society. Involved in social relations involving authority or power, and the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy? Because I may have misplaced myself in perception, or be seeing this along a different purpose line and social intercourse than others coming to this blog. And I was viewing most of the comments on this blog as a political activity. I mean, I was seeing this whole thing as a political thing. I’ve been swimming in politics since the day I started posted here.

    So if I have been tripping, I hope you can just let it go by. 🙂

  473. plainoldthetan

    Kinda does, doesn’t it?

  474. When his former PC deserves it and was repeatedly, publicly warned, then no….I don’t believe Marty as ANYTHING to feel bad about. Except the fact that we all are sitting on the edge of our seats waiting…..

  475. Jesus, Alex. I look at Captain Bill as a casualty in the war to free Scientology. I knew of him for years, and he came down to the BC at ASHO around 1983 (right before the Galactic Federation thing) and pulled the BC into a room for a special briefing – we were the elite, we were the vanguard of the future. The one line that really stuck with me over the years was when he said “Any REAL OT can fry a chicken at 50 feet, but we don’t do it so as not to be out reality.”

    But, I have to say I have a soft spot for the man, like I do for the other rogues, reprobates, and characters that helped Ron get this stuff done. We are dealing with the raw stuff of life, and it makes sense that some people go off the rails when working with it. I can think of a few times when I touched things that made me spinny for a while. Out int and out lists can make anyone crazy, not to mention out justice.

    I saw the video posting here of the meeting in England with Capt Bill for the first time yesterday, and I tell you something – I saw his point. I don’t agree with it 100%, but I saw his point, and I can see why he was unhinged.

    Regarding free-thinking, I am of the opinion that there can be no true absolute line of demarcation as to what is “real” Scientology and what is not – as a subject. Scientology is life, so where is that line? But, the application of the tech is another thing. So-called “Internet auditing” where the “PC” and “Auditor” are connected via Skype is not auditing. It could possibly be a sort of assist, but not auditing. The “C-Meter”, which is an emeter program on a Windows PC, I can guarantee will miss reads and F/Ns, because Windows is not a real-time operating system. Add the latency of the internet for “remote auditing” and you may as well read tea leaves.

    The road to a certain point is taped. But not beyond that point. And not 100% of all cases, in my opinion. So, there is room for improvement. But, what is there works, the grades work, the DRDs, the meter.

    Point #1 of KSW is “Having the correct technology.” The big question is what is the correct technology? LRH defined it as Standard Tech – that thread of tech throughout the materials of Scientology. I am good with that. But I also know there is there is tech out there that complements Standard Tech (like the data some psychologists are figuring out regarding psychpaths – http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm – and the Meyers-Briggs personality assessment).

    It took years of living to correlate Scientology with other valid data, and to understand other viewpoints other than the Scientology one. I have opened my thinking considerably – but this has only made me stronger. I can see the value of other religions and philosophies out there, and I respect people more. I personally believe that people should be well educated, and that Scientology will survive only if its users are well educated. David Miscavige and the church is an excellent example as to what happens to Scientology when its adherents are uneducated.


  476. Interesting video! Thanks for the link. I love the guy.

  477. Leave it to Miscavige to totally kill the purpose of Scientology with his “Me Big Being. You DB” bullshit. The purpose of Scientology is to raise EVERYONE up. “Scientology is the only game where everyone wins.” Patterson’s Collorary: “If someone is losing, it ain’t Scientology.”

  478. “Makes an outsider like me wonder what Katie & Co. had on him to get a fast settlement.”
    An attorney father who specializes in matrimony law and 5 boxes of documents that constituted her prenup.

  479. Dave, what would you do upon observing that your former PC is completely off the rails, going headlong into the abyss following his BFF who is a major SP, is completely out Ethics, will not get his Ethics in and requires Justice, with no Justice actions needed happening? Nothing?

  480. Joe and Steve, thats great material, simple and useful. Get interested in life and use ARC. So simple. Auditing comes in when your unable to do either of those. But once you experience relief, your still have to be the one moving forward in harmony with others. Always good to be reminded of these things. Thanks.

  481. Steve,
    THAT is a wonderfully ‘outsightful’ post 🙂 Really. Such a basic, simple and powerful secret.

  482. So sorry to hear that his life has now ended.
    As AGPR Germany I had set up an event with him as speaker in Munich
    in ’74 or ’75. He was a powerful ally in the war against the attacks from the Max-Plank Institute & Co.

  483. Marty’s blog is now consistently read and quoted from on media and tabloids:

  484. Thanks PJ. Do you have the specifics on this?

  485. dave95694
    What makes you think Marty “turned” on TC?
    Marty gave Tom plenty of warnings that have been disregarded.
    You have to call a spade a spade whether it is your friend or your kid or even a stranger.
    A better name is ‘tough love’.

  486. I would consider the product of my auditing to be overt and report to qual?

    Auditors publicly attacking their former PC’s is unseemly.

  487. Tony DePhillips

    Plus 1!!
    Dave is not real bright.

  488. Marty, your book arrived swiftly at my door in Tasmania, Australia from Amazon and I could not put it down until I had read it all!

    Not only is it a great read but it is a stunning and truthful account of life inside the insanity of Scientology and it’s big brother bully, the IAS, and all the key questions a doubtful parishioner may have are truly answered there. The relief in reading it for everyone who does will be immense! I had 20+ years as an active Scientologist and auditor and minister, close to the action for almost all of that time, and seeing it all for myself, and Marty I did not doubt one single word you wrote, about anyone or anything because it matched with my own observations. Marty your blog exposing the truth is the stable doorway out of oppression and on to spiritual freedom for those in doubt, and the way to find whatever philosophy they may choose after leaving. I urge anyone in doubt to visit your blog every day and read the articles and the comments (even the crazy ones because after all they are valid opinions too) and learn for themselves another side to the story, that they have been screened from seeing.

    The price of freedom – from the insidious suppression of being inside the squirrelled Church of Scientology – is “constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back, there is no other price.” The brilliance of the technology of suppression and how to fight it and win, has been twisted and changed by Miscavige to prevent over time, even the strongest men and women from recognising that they are in a noose and it is getting tighter and tighter until one day they will find they have left their bodies and they have lost this wonderful chance to really be free.

    And then for those who choose Scientology, Steve Hall’s amazing new website “iscientology.org” is the roadmap for the escapee to the real deal, independent Scientology and how to navigate the new landscape. That website is completely awesome and brilliantly put together Steve.

    I appeal to any person, anywhere, who feels that somebody is stopping you from being as free as you would like to be. Follow your gut instinct, take a stand and if your efforts to bring positive change fall on deaf ears and your suppressor instead becomes more urgently cold and unkindly, get out of whatever it is – a relationship, a club, a church, a job, a country. Anything that does not allow you to speak freely, and have free opinions and thoughts is in fact heavy suppression and is slowly killing you off. The perceived danger in leaving that situation is a tiny drop compared to the bucket loads of joy you will gain from the freedom to create your life to be whatever you want it to be, using whatever philosophy or idea you choose.

    Wendy Honnor
    1. Former IAS Freedom Medal Winner 2003
    2. And now absolutely free of suppression, free to believe in God and love and help my fellow man no matter what his religion, creed or opinions, and without any hold on my individuality or my voice to speak out or to anyone I wish.

  489. Point taken Greta, but its a PR world. Auditor attacking former PC looks and feels wrong. Just my opinion.

    And yes I am familiar with “ethics gradients”.

    Wouldn’t a better focus be on creating scientology anew as a practice and movement? Rather than using the high profile of one scientologist to make points against ones former group?

    I’ll say it again, unseemly.

    Flourish and prosper, not roll in the mud.

  490. No – Ron never completely wrote off SPs. He said: Leave the door open a crack, and that we’d get to them last. The consensus of psychologists is that they are what they are, and are not “curable.”

    Which makes sense if we are made from mud. What is moral if we are mere MEST? Who says that psychopaths are “wrong” and people with consciences are “right?” Psychopaths are just the products of a branch of evolution, and since the modern view of philosophy is that we have no free will, psychopaths are dangerous to us, perhaps, but are just another version of how people are.

  491. Sorry to hear that – but 92 is a grand old age! Of course, there is NO mention of this on the CCHR web site. Natch.

  492. Thanks Grasshopper. I never met LRH or Captain Bill, and have never met a Ron’s Orger either. I know these folks only through their written and audio materials. like the posted video and other audio online.

    I do not even see Captain Bill as a casualty, exactly. Unless you consider that LRH was also, in his own way, a casualty of his own mission, a casualty of his own quest, to research, compile, set down, and disseminate a workable tech for the freeing of thetans.
    ” 10. Your integrity to yourself is more important than your body.”,
    and other points of the Code of Honor. These guys lived that.

    I think what CBR accomplished is remarkable. Just as I see what LRH accomplished as remarkable.

    Did CBR “alter OTII”? I don’t know. But the R.O.s have apparently gotten lots of people through OTIII, so was the alteration a “comma out of place” kind of thing? I realize this blog is not the place to discuss such in detail, but these are the kind of questions I have. They are in fact questions about criticisms based on literalness.

    The posted video is apparently from 1983. This would be shortly after the “mission massacre”, and CBR’s realization of the CoS’ increasing divergence from LRH original goals and procedures. Being a responsible person, CBR had to have been shaken to the core. He felt the weight of the future riding on what he did, on the actions he took from here on out. He felt he had to act to preserve the scientology Bridge as he knew it. And he proceeded to do so. In a really trailblazing way, and preserving the essence of LRH’s work and getting it delivered to thousands of people over the following years, in a more standard way than the CoS has done.

    And today we are arguing about whether he was “crazy”?
    Gimme a break!

    I give the man credit for having retained enough sanity to accomplish what he did accomplish!

    People ague about whether LRH was “crazy”, too!

    According to one site (http://www.ronsorg.com/english/mythaboutcbr.html) here is a brief summary of the commendations CBR received from LRH while in the Sea Org:

    – CBR was awarded the rank of “Right Arm” (RA), granted the title of Captain and he was 2nd Deputy Commodore (1st deputy was Mary Sue Hubbard). He also as one of very few people was awarded the Sea Org Officer’s Dirk. Finally, with the Flag Conditions Order 381-1 of April 30, 1975, he gained another special award by LRH: “Captain W. B. Robertson, Right Arm rank, is hereby awarded the status of Kha Khan for excellent duty as Captain of Flag ship Apollo and a long career of success and high statistics in the Sea Organization.”

    CBR was instrumental in CommEving David Miscavige in 1984:


    “The first group to use the term Free Zone was the organization founded by “Captain” Bill Robertson in 1982,
    now known as Ron’s Org.”

    These Scientologists formed what was called the OT Committee World Wide. Within 2 years, in March of 1984, this Committee issued an Ethics Order #1 which was a “bill of particulars” calling for a Comm Ev of David Miscavige.

    The Comm Ev was held early that summer of 1984, and the results are available to be read on the scientology-cult.com site:


    I imagine someone wanted Capt. Bill black PRed BIG TIME after that, don’t you think? And he has been in the West, ever since.

    End rant, (for now.)

    I have no horse in this race. I simply want the truth known and Justice done for the early pioneers and friends who helped LRH get and keep the show on the road.

  493. LRH’s Code of Honor may also be helpful on this: “NEVER NEED PRAISE, APPROVAL OR SYMPATHY”.

  494. Freudian slip or …?
    oxygen depravation = a depravation (oxygen deprivation) done by depraved TC

    Tom Cruise gets hysterical on Letterman

  495. Amen Windy and VERY WELL SAID!

    Steve (SP) Poore

  496. So I finally got this straight. My ton of money established David Miscavige and Tom Cruise into positions of extreme megalomia.
    May all megalomaniacs be well and happy!
    George M. White

  497. And may all who contributed tons of money also be well and happy! 🙂

  498. You are one pompous dude. If you audited a pc and they became a serial killer you would turn yourself into qual?? What a bot!
    Any person is responsible for the condition they are in. I don’t care who audited them. LRH had lots of his pc’s went on to do some bad stuff. Should he turn himself into qual also? This reminds me of the quote from KSW, “ Instructor A was found to have huge ideas of how you must never invalidate anyone, even a lunatic.”

  499. But…. but….. I thought SIZE MATTERED!!?? 🙂

  500. Plus one!! Great comment!

  501. Allright! Marty’s new book has arrived on my doorstep and I’m puttin’ up the “Do Not Disturb” sign on my door for tonight! 🙂

    (With maybe a break to watch the “Presidential Debates” later. I hope they are both act “Presidential”.)

  502. Hoi iRoger,
    I hear you. Glad to hear you are not inventing any technical processes!
    It is certainly alright to have different opinions, by golly!
    Connect up with a standard WCer to get that Word Clearing BPC resolved.
    Re Switzerland and Democracy: Remember I grew up there. History has shown that nobody wants to attack their WALLET. Remove Swiss banks / bankers, the HQ of UN in Geneva, the Financial Stability Board in Basel and lets see how democratic it remains.

  503. Wow! Both of the above referenced articles are actually well-written and genuinely outraged and believable!

    Marty shoots – he scores!

  504. Tony DePhillips said:
    “LRH had lots of his pc’s went on to do some bad stuff.”

    Lots Tony? I think that is a suppressive generality.

    Obviously there was no qual available to LRH as he developed it in the first place, but it certainly is an indicator if a PC goes off the deep end.

    Yes I believe Qual is one of the key things that makes scientology work.

    If I had a PC turn into a serial killer I would certainly pull his folders and have them FES’d and looked at to see if there were mistakes. Pan determinism accepts that a person is responsible for their own condition and then adds “me too”.

  505. Just finished the book as well. The detailed abuses shot my TA out the
    roof. Now it’s a question of how to get it into the hands of those who need it.

  506. Cabbage on bricks

  507. tessa,

    let me try to clarify this business of “standard tech” vs.”other tech” a little more.

    “Standard tech” is contained in the writings called “red on white”. These are technical “Bulletins” about how to do auditing. These are an exact “how-to” for reliably achieving certain results desired by the preclear and pre-OT. It’s called”standard” because it meets certain standards of reliablility, and therefore should be followed – because it works. LRH called it a “workable system”. He even said it was not necessarily the only possible system, just that it was the only really reliable, “workable system” developed to date. That is why he said to know it and use it as-is, without altering any of it. It is complete in itself, for achieving what it is supposed to achieve.

    It is a question of confidence in the reliability of it, when it is applied exactly as written.

    It is like the difference between taking your computer to a Microsoft Certiified technician for troubleshooting of it’s operating system, or taking it to just anyone who claims to be able to fix it, but has no certification.

    Or like the difference between taking your Ford or Toyota to a Ford or Toyota certified technician for troubleshooting and repair, or just letting some guy who says “I know a lot about cars, I’ll try to fix it”, work on it. He doesn’t have the diagnostic equipment and the training, but he says he’ll fix it. He may, or he may not. He may mess it up.

    An auditor is basically a technician. So you’re right, it has a “scientific” aspect. And that’s how many of us who came across it early on, like in the 1970s or earlier, view it. The religious aspect might come in when you consider that the tech needs to be applied “religiously” – with great conscientiousness. Also just because there is no other good way to “pigeonhole” it in this society. We don’t necessarily pray,but we deal with “spiritual” matters at times.

    That’s how I understand it.

  508. George — I can’t help but cringe sometimes when you aspire/wish that “all megalomaniacs (or whatever other abhorrent valence someone may have) be well and happy.

    I *think* you are citing the bodhisattva wish: may all beings be happy, may all beings be free from suffering, may all beings never be separated from the great happiness devoid of suffering, may all beings dwell in equanimity, free from passion, aggression and bias.

    I think I get your intention which is to wish — regardless of the valence/ego someone is in — that they are well and happy.

    This would make sense because you are a buddhist. You would WISH all sentient beings happiness.

    But, It wouldn’t make sense that you wish an EGO happiness …

    Because that isn’t possible — is it?


  509. “Auditor attacking former PC looks and feels wrong. Just my opinion.”

    What looks and feels wrong is you attempting to reverse relative importances. So far you align well in name and thought process with another Dave. Perhaps you are one!

    And if you consider the above post by Marty an attack……………..you had better buckle up dude a mundo. Then re-listen to Priscilla Presley’s new song and clear your MUs.

  510. Very well said Wendy!

  511. martyrathbun09

    Its Lisa Marie’s; but your selection is right on the money.

  512. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    Wendy. Very nicely stated. Yours is the most heartfelt and inspiring review I have ever read on ANY book anywhere. This review needs to be part of the promotion of Marty’s book wherever the book is advertised for sale. And possibly be published as a foreword to the book in some way in future printings. Having just finished Marty’s new book myself I enthusiastically embrace this review. Maybe post this review right on the home page of Marty’s blog right next to the ad for the book. Marty, this is a really good book review from an upstat – your certainly desire it. It’d be nice to know that many new curious visitors to your blog or Thoughtful’s web site had this review as an early thing to read.

  513. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    sorry for typo. 3rd line from the end should say “you certainly deserve it”.

  514. Thanks Steve and welcome again into the world of freedom and truth. Love Wendy

  515. Thank you so much Regular Dog, I completely understand why you have given the name you have to yourself. Freedom is a sweet prize at the end of a long battle for the truth when you realise you have been fighting all the time in the wrong corner and actually with one punch it is lights out for the punch drunk bully.

  516. This review needs to be part of the promotion of Marty’s book wherever the book is advertised for sale.
    I had the same idea while reading Wendy’s review.
    Very theta.

  517. Thank you dear Tony.

  518. I liked that Wendy. Good to hear from you!

  519. Dave said: “Lots Tony? I think that is a suppressive generality. ” My response to this is that I don’t care if you think it is a suppressive generality. Are some generalities suppressive and others not? This is the kind of bot statement that tries to stop communication.

    I think qual is a good thing.

    If one of your pc’s had turned into a serial killer years after you audited them and the most effective action you could do is FES their folders to find “mistakes” then you are very low on the causation scale IMHO. Marty audited this Tom Cruise guy and he later turned into a real schmuck and committed and is committing some real bad deeds. He turned his back on the guy who helped him and through him under the bus. An auditor does not lose his rights to bring to justice someone in society who is supporting an SP psychopath just because he once audited that person.

    Your position reminds me of the hippie era and I can see you meditating with a flower in your hair hoping all will go well. Nothing against meditating but I think physical action is needed to remedy wrongs in most cases.

  520. Yes, thanks for the clarification!

  521. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    🙂 Very cool.

  522. martyrathbun09

    His boyfriend (who confides in no one but him) has three cameras trained on my wife’s kitchen for two years and I’m gonna send him daisies? He had better wake up soon – cause I am only warming up.

  523. You are so right! They are bleeding the flock dry to be vested in real estate world-wide. It is almost as if COB has a clear plan B: if CoS fails, RTC is still rich. If CoS can keep pulling in money, RTC is still rich. Tails you lose, heads I win.

  524. Correction – 1. IAS Freedom Medal Winner 2003

  525. burythenuts,

    He did not consider them “suppressive” because they couldn’t be helped, but because they acted suppressively or oppressively towards others. He eventually found they could be helped. But they themselves never thought they needed any help and so suppressed any attempts to help them. Such a person feels threatened by any attempt to help.

    I don’t have the references to hand, but I believe by the 1980s tech had been developed to “solve” even the case of a true Suppressive Person.(possibly the same as psychology’s Sociopathic/Psychopathic Personality) (Note: an SP was originally also called an “Antisocial Personality”, which aligns with the idea of “Sociopathy”.

    I have in mind 2 things I heard about – the Suppressed Person Rundown, and some procedures for directly auditing a suppressive person, by which I mean a person who chronically displays a majority of the 12 suppressive characteristics and has a track record of not benefiting from
    auditing or any other therapy.

    There are links available online for finding relevant material, but to make a long story short, the use of this tech was suppressed within the CoS for the obvious reason – the guy in charge was himself was/is an SP.

    One difficulty with doing any therapy on any kind with a sociopath or an SP is s/he would go to any lengths to avoid any therapy, and only pretend to go along with it if actually forced to sit down for some.

    I don’t recall anything one way or the other from Hubbard about it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if early on as he researched Dianetics and Scientology, he did not know whether they could be successfully treated or not, but the conventional wisdom of pscyhiatrists and psychologists of the time was that they were “incurable”, so LRH may have started from that assumption.

    I don’t know if you have read the very basic essays on what LRH thought an Antisocial Personality is, and it’s opposite, the Social Personality (which is what most – 97+ % – of us are) here are links to the 2 articles, which were published as both Policy Letters and as technical Bulletins:



    The psychology of an SP is explained quite clearly in them.

  526. I love it Marty!! You are an inspiration to all rational thinking beings who have a shred of decency.

  527. Hahaha…

  528. Yes Tony some generalities are suppressive and some are not. Spewing generalities about LRH having “lots” of bad product is suppressive. Saying sunny days are great is not.

    Bot? Who here is reactively replying with ad hom? (attacks against the person rather than the ideas they present)

    Physical action? Are you suggesting violence?

    Calm down man. Take it private. Reply to my email to you. You can call me names to your hearts content privately, I’ve done a comm course, I can take it.


  529. Hi Valkov,
    I appreciate your thoughtfull and measured posts. You are a cut above the average person to put it mildly.

  530. Good link JL. It nicely clarifies the real issue, which is not that the phenomena labeled “mental illness” do not exist, because they do exist, but that the vast majority are not “medical” problems and medical doctors, “physicians”, are not the appropriate people to be dealing with them.

    Physicians are oriented towards the body; most “psychiatric problems” are existential, spiritual, crises of conscience, or the result of suppression, and could be characterized as “problems of living”, not “medical” problems. This was always Dr. Szasz’s crusade, and Dr. Breggin’s.

    It is an area medical doctors moved into and have tried to take over basically to increase their “territory” and create more sources of income.

    We see the results today – because of their physical orientation, they have largely abandoned dealing much with the minds, hearts and spirits of their “patients”, in favor of prescribing lots of drugs. And the occssional electric shocks to the brain.

  531. Honeycat,

    See my post above in response to burythenuts. It may answer your question. A therapeutic method to help an antisocial personality was developed, but unfortunately it was not used by the Church of Scientology.

  532. Walter Kotric was saying this (most org staff DBs) already 1975. The same time when he and other staffs cruised in an open car through Munich and greeted everyone on the sidewalk with boots-clapping and Hitler salute. I thought then it was jokes … seems rather not, if it’s persistant. But … there was no US import needed, however. He had it before the pestilence DM erupted.

  533. “Listening” is just as good as “looking” if it is done actively, with TR0 in. Blind people do it every day.

    “Look, don’t listen” means “Perceive for yourself” instead of letting others tell you what is true. The difference is direction of flow.

    Try listening to one of DM’s speeches with your eyes closed!

  534. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yes & no, Greta —- since what I appreciate is
    simply “fairness” in treatment (application of ARC)
    which gains the two-way respect I believe prevents
    ARC X’s and fosters high toned open comm ‘tween
    participants of goodwill on this blog. Perhaps I am
    mistaken in believing it is a worthwhile purpose to
    try to establish genuine friendships among the
    broad diversity here? Sticking to the stiff, cold
    silence in the “elevator,” among the passengers,
    whether in real life, or in this “version”, MOUALH,
    is not something I do – since I’ve found that the
    vast majority of people appreciate a little humor,
    or “lightening up,” to ease them along in their
    pre-occupied seriousness. Not always, it must
    be said, can another be dissuaded from their
    (“necessary”) demeanor, but generally feel that
    much better if they can!

    Laughter? (antidote to seriousness!) Still the
    best medicine, IMHO! And eases many otherwise
    painful relationships/experiences for the better!

    Shreff,Mike,Steve,Nancy(Palehorse) Tony,TO,
    Ronnie Bell, Scott Cambell, and Random Stranger,
    come to mind, as having that ready, effusive humor
    that makes this “elevator ride” a truly fun-filled

    Perhaps this is true for you too, Greta?


  535. The following references are the ones an auditor can use to solve the S/P case. LRH did develope the tech for handling them. C/S Series 22 explains what to use. The HCOBs and lectures on Expanded Dianetics, a part of the POWER Processes. You have to be a very good Auditor and trained well preferably at least a Class V before getting the training on Expanded Dianetics or the Power processes. The Suppresed Person Rundown is run directly on the PTS not the S/P. It should be studied well too. The best thing to do is get trained!!

  536. Cool response Dave! Good TRs.

  537. Yes, take a look at CBR´s OT II C/S instructions to his pre-OT´s.
    You can get it from RO.

    CBR´s Excalibur is also OUT TECH – SQUIRREL.

    RO is NOT Scientology, it can´t be, because they have two sources:
    LRH and CBR.

  538. Gern Gaschoen

    I believe the Auditors Code provides for the allowance of an Auditor to deny auditing to someone who has an obvious out-Ethics situation.

    Marty’s not wearing his Auditors hat here. More like, I dunno .. Ethics .. and you might want to note one more thing: the process is producing case change.

  539. Gern Gaschoen

    The solution to psychosis and mental disorder lays in the Auditor hat, and related Auditing technology. Alas, Auditing at this time and place, is an expensive, luxurious activity only a very elite few can afford, so this point is not yet clear, but I would encourage you to consider the technology of Auditing, a little closer, in your assessment of what Scientology ‘does about psychosis’. Scientology Auditing does a *lot* for a persons stability, sanity, and ability to control the world around them. This includes those who, according to other doctrines, are incurable. Not all will be cured, but in case its not clear, anyone can Audit if they train to do so.

    (Disclaimer: during the 70’s and 80’s, I was able to supervise many, lets say, *crazy* people through their courses in a good ol’ Standard Course Room / Qual environment.. and for the craziest, donning the Auditors hat pretty much, did, yes .. cure them.)

  540. Gern Gaschoen

    I would like to join this group, but alas I refuse to use Facebook for reasons I guess we’d better not argue about on this forum.

    Are there other forums, requiring less investment in a social profiling process? Perhaps even a mailing list or something?

  541. Gern Gaschoen

    Scenario: Marty answers a knock at the door. Its Tom Cruise. Tom walks in, Marty closes the door, locking it.

  542. Gern Gaschoen

    Well, there is that whole “OT 9 and above require Body-swapping ruds be *IN*” thing ..

  543. constant vigilance

    Amazon is weird because I ordered the book the minute it was available, last Thurs, and it still hasn’t arrived. I checked and Amazon says it will be here Sat. So the fact that Wendy gets hers in another country before I do, is just strange. I am waiting with baited breath to read it.

  544. Christine,
    Great to hear from you on this issue.
    No, I would not wish an ego happiness. I am simply looking at the karma
    that these people are heir to.
    Much metta and love
    George M. White

  545. SKM,
    Totally cool. Great silence.

  546. Well, I am sure there are lots of people that LRH either audited and or c/s’d that later did “bad” things. I don’t think that is a “suppressive generality” I am attacking your ideas as well as throwing some invalidation at you. Your ideas throw some invalidaion at Marty do they not? You just seem to be too 1.1 to be overt about it.

    Physical action? I mean taking steps in the physical universe to remedy an injustice such as exposing them or having them arrested or doing an interview and letting the world know what the criminal is up to. I would also say that physically stopping a criminal from hurting or mugging someone is of course ok to do.

    I’m calm now, I took a deep breath. I did reply to your email to me saying that you weren’t going to react to my bullbait at least not publicly, but you did privately. You know you”re a snake in the grass, just admit it and get some case gain. 🙂

  547. martyrathbun09

    Pass, on the tone scale drill!

  548. Isn’t this the very same video that Naz Bonanin was forced to watch on an endless loop during her RPF? (punished for saying “Excuse me?” to COB?)
    Feeling very, very queasy right now….

  549. The things people find funny tell us an awful lot about their real characters…laughing at oxygen deprivation (which even in small amounts can cause changes in the brain and even brain damage) is very, very telling.

  550. Li'll bit of stuff

    Valkov, just when I was taking in some
    appetizing morsels & delights, you have
    to go and serve something the cat kotched
    up. Use a bit of selective timing, old pal!
    I had to break away to go ‘n kotch too!
    Now….where was I again ?? Oh yes……….

  551. Thanks PJ. I wouldn’t know what to look for, in the OTII C/S instructions, to compare, since I haven’t done the level.

    I guess I get where you’re coming from, but I do not for the most part agree.

    If the ROs deliver the Comm Course, the HQS course, ARC Straightwire and so on up the line, up to and including the Academy levels(Grades auditing), Power and Power Plus, and through Clear and the Clearing course, and doing it per LRH standards, which I believe they are, as they pride themselves on it, then they are delivering standard tech up to that point. My understanding is that they are also delivering all the “original OT levels” per LRH. And getting people through OTIII, too.

    That they may offer a “squirrel option” at some higher levels that departs from what is verified original LRH material, I have no comment on one way or the other, not having done any upper levels myself. But if the option was put together by a Class VIII trained by LRH, I wouldn’t dismiss it out-of-hand as worthless. It may not be needed anymore in 2012, but for it’s time, (1980s) it may have been the best available in that part of the world.

    I give them credit for making the distinction between the original LRH, and the CBR parts of what they offer.

    If you are able to identify with certainty individuals/groups who do deliver 100% standard LRH tech, why, for sure I would encourage you to go with that.

    My point is that the R.O.s have probably overall done the best job in the world of being “keepers and preservers” of standard LRH tech for 30 years. They have played Vishnu to Miscavige’s Kali for decades, and continue to do so.

    That kind of standard tech network is only recently arising in the USA. This is understandable. It is like being close to Moscow was, in the old Soviet Union. There was more freedom out in Siberia, across the Ural mountains. The oppression was heaviest, the nearer you were to Moscow. So it has been in the USA, where the CoS version of the KGB was strongest, and most independent groups were more heavily suppressed.

    The ROs, quietly operating far from the CoS centers of power, were able to survive and remain more true to LRH, than the CoS or independents in the USA. So I tend to think a person opting to go the “LRH Route” through the Ron’s Org network is on pretty good ground. There are a lot of people wanting to go Clear; Marty,Trey, LDW etc can’t audit all of them. The RO network is pitching in on the overall effort.

    That’s my personal view.

  552. You could use “you didn’t see him write it” to invalidate anything and everything Hubbard ever issued.

    At the end of the day, I have an HCO Policy Letter and you have nothing but a Hidden Data Line – something Hubbard explicitly warned us against.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  553. Indie Scientologist Facebook Group does not allow pseudonomous members anyway. I’m not sharing any of my comm lines with a Hidden Source, so good luck there.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  554. dave95694. this sounds entirely like a “head trip” you’re on. What are your stats? As far as I know, you have none. Are you an active auditor? C/S? Course Sup? What?

    I think you are just a downbeat head tripper.

  555. I’m sorry! It is a revolting thought, to listen to DM with eyes closed. My bad. OT-TR0 on DM, anyone?

  556. I hope TC doesn’t need a padded room for awhile, before he comes through it and out of it. What are the odds? It’s an awful lot to confront.

  557. Maybe some folks paid for faster shipping?

  558. I just wonder if you have taken Rons Org services
    As a person that has taken services with rons Org and was part of its set up I appreciated reading your overall view. I support Rons and activities
    Rons Services have existed in the US for a good number of years and throughout europe and africa/ australia /etc. Its doing very well overall
    inspite of attacks but remain dedicated to LRH and his tech, and also developments by Capt Bill.
    Its purpose is to deliver and keep seperate to the hassles and diseffection matters related to the Church of Scientology within.. As I support
    I understand what your meaning a bit more, I say this because of some earlier crtiics written with some questions concerning Rons Org .They delivery all .

  559. What did LRH mean by the phrase “other tech”? What was he referring to?

  560. Ah, so your own real concern, “Dave” is PR appearances. Just like the other Dave.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  561. Gern Gaschoen

    Oh, I’d be fine with identifying myself to the group, but I just don’t want to do it with Facebook.

  562. Point taken Greta, but its a PR world. Auditor attacking former PC looks and feels wrong. Just my opinion. And yes I am familiar with “ethics gradients”. Wouldn’t a better focus be on creating scientology anew as a practice and movement? Rather than using the high profile of one scientologist to make points against ones […]

    Ah, so your own real concern, “Dave” is PR appearances. Just like the other Dave. Michael A. Hobson Independent Scientologist

    Right on Michael! Dave 95…, Shut The F UP! and leave this to those with a handle on KRC – i.e.Judgement. Steve Poore, actual and real Scientologist

  563. martyrathbun09

    For the record, Tom has been Dave’s ONLY confidante for five years. They have three cameras trained on my wife’s kitchen and living room for two years running…on top of every other daily sp act the two direct. I am barely touching on my own experience (and nothing from counselling). If it feels wrong…sorry for the discomfort.

  564. Steve — problem is that Tom Cruise is empowering Miscavige to continue abusing people. I fully agree with “creating Scientology anew as a practice and movement” but there are some of us who have a responsibility to expose and bring an end to the abuses being perpetrated by the cult of Miscavige. That one of those people happened to be Tom Cruise’s auditor and Miscavige’s second in command should not preclude him from doing what he can do to end it. Personally, I would not respect an auditor who refused to speak up or act about abuses he knew about by excusing himself by reason of being an auditor.

  565. Mike and Marty,

    That wasn’t me. I just told Dave95… to Shut The F..UP already!

    That said, I should know better than to talk to circuits.

    Steve Poore

  566. Steve — OK I fixed your comment to make clear you were quoting Dave95…

  567. I’m sure a policy letter could not possibly be a hidden data line!

    “…Mr. Franks tells a story about an incident which occurred in the mid-70′s on the Apollo [a ship of theChurch’s Sea Organization]. He was Director of Training over the FEBC with Hubbard aboard, trying to recover a student who had escaped the ship while docked in Morocco. Hubbard was irate. Mr. Franks and David Mayo, the Senior C/S International, wrote up all the “standard” Scientology actions they had done to recover the escaped student and submitted them to Hubbard.

    …Mr. Franks said that, through a messenger, Hubbard informed them that he was about to tell them something that must never get out. It was labeled extremely confidential. Hubbard told Mayo and Franks that the real reason people leave was not because of overts and “missed withholds”. It was because of ARC Breaks. Hubbard told these two men this and said that the reason this could never get out was because Hubbard feared he would “lose control of orgs” [organizations of Scientology] if it did.

    Well, that’s about the polar opposite of what most of Hubbard’s other references on this say.

    I did some more checking to see if Bill Franks had said this, and came across a long discussion thread at an Ex-Scientologist message forum. Apparently, Bill Franks had posted about this at his Facebook in February 2011. There was some back and forth as to was it him, was it real, until finally a woman named Karen de La Carriere (one of those staff type Scientologists mixed up with the Salvage Scientology operation) vouched for that it was a real post, and it was really Bill Franks.

    This was then excerpted, and this is the original version:

    …….on one night in 1974 I found myself in David Mayo’s office in the tween decks of the Apollo. It was very late or early in the morning. We were, I believe, in the port of Safi, Morocco. A student of mine, I was currently D of T (director of training) and Mayo was Flag Senior case supervisor, had blown. Hubbard was extremely angry with us due to this blown student of mine on the FEBC program.

    We waited and waited and about 0300 hrs a messenger came down with a dispatch written by LRH. My memory does not recall any folders being returned. The dispatch was entitled Very Confidential underlined. He went onto say that ‘if you or Franks ever reveal any of this information that I am about to reveal, the consequences will be severe for SCN (Scientology).’

    He then wrote, ‘a person does not blow due to Overts or Withholds. He blows only due to ARC BreaKs (upsets)’.

    ‘However, If any of this information ever became public, I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole.” Signed LRH

    Mike, Why would someone write a policy letter condeming Sea Org Members who leave? What would the purpose of that be? The policy was written as a solution to a problem. I don’t need to rumor to know that. What problem was trying to be solved? Sea Org Staff getting ripped off. Yes, that makes perfect sense. It makes more sense that a policy fair gaming anyone who leaves staff with a generalized declare! You sleep with your policy letter. I’ll sleep with what makes sense. It is not true that I have nothing but a hidden data line. I have awareness of conditions.

  568. I would not have reposted this quote on this if it had not been confirmed by Karen. The thread is on ESMB as I understand it.

  569. Meaning that Karen confirmed the quote, not the data. BUT, I have never seen a red on white reference on Sea Org Members leaving. And the green on white quoted here, conflicts with red on white I have read and understood. It is not mentioned anywhere in that green on white about Sea Org Members, ARCX’s. Guess what? Sea Org members can have ARCX’s too! Sea Org Members can bypass normal habits and routines too! Sea Org Members can do doubt formulas too! Red on White:

  570. “You must not continue to run a P.C. on some process when the P.C. is ARCX”. L.R.H.

    The Sea Org is a PROCESS! Surprise!

    You show me one Sea Org Member that does not look ARCX.

    I left the day I ARCX. I did not continue running that process. That is Red on White.

  571. This is stupid. Let me tell you first of all Bill Franks “story” would be considered “heresay” in a court of law. Also in this frorum you relaying a story ca not be “cross examined” as Bill Frnaks is not here. Thirdly I worked with Bill Franks when he was the Commanding Officer of The Iternationa Training Org on Flag in Clearwater FL. He was graduating OEC students with higest ever stats at that time. LRH sent out a couple of telexes highly commending him even commenting “Thats my boy!” However, within a year of those students graduating, the international stats took a huge slump! LRH wanted to know why. So a Mission was put together and sent to the various orgs to find out why. What they found out was shocking to say the least. After pulling those students withholds, who graduatied the OEC under Bill Franks, what was found out was that to get those highest ever stats, Bill Franks would take a student who was doing well on his OEC Volume course, like OEC Vol 0 and when the guy was about half way throught it he would bring the guy into his office and in a “confidential” comm cycle. He would praise the student for his incredible progress and get the students agreement, that it is all simple data and the the student was a natrual at it. So, he would then tell the student to just sign off the rest of his checksheet and go and route through the course! When questioned about it he would simply tell the student “It’s ok, that’s the way we did it on the APPOLO.”!! This caused an international slump in the stats and many EDs blew because of it. Some were recovered. I was there, read the Eval that LRH did himself on it. I worked in the Flag Command Burreau and was also an Org Flag Officer and privey to the data. There are many other illegal things Bill Franks did which eventually got him canned. He tried to give me an illegal order one time and I refused to do it and he became really mad. I thought he was going to hit me but I was prepared to defend myself but it did not happen I just walked away. That is part of my personal experience with the mighty Bill Franks.

  572. Ronnie Bell,

    Thank you for posting my Facebook Group here.

    Since Steve Hall’s new website, http://www.iscientology.org/ , has gone up the group has expanded 16 members (252 total) with 10 more waiting due to my not being able to contact them.

    Heads Up – if you have asked to join and I’ve not gotten back to you yet it is because “you” have your Facebook settings set so that “I” and others can not contact you by message or to be friends with you. Thus, I have no way of contacting you. Those that have not gotten in yet please do Facebook Private Message me and/or send me a friend request at https://www.facebook.com/karry.campbell so that we may proceed with getting you into the group.

    Karry Campbell

  573. Thanks hadley.

    I have not taken services with Ron’s Org. Neither have I taken much services with the CoS. My contact was mostly with Field Auditors in the 1970s, and a mission holder who lost her mission to the Sea Org in the early 1980s. It was a different world back then.

    So I was never fed any black PR on Bill Robertson. Now I’ve been looking online, reading and listening, including CBR, and it seems obvious to me that he sometimes used different words/names to describe the same “standard tech”. Standard tech is not the words used, but the results obtained, which are obtained because of a clear understanding. Thus some of the “CBR bridge” seems different at the upper levels, but are really the same thing. What are called the “OT levels” above OTVIII in Ron’s Orgs, seem to me, just from their descriptions, to be mainly “OT Hatting” actions that potentially exist in the CoS Bridge also, but are not being delivered much if at all.

    Since to be “OT” one needs to be able to operate on more dynamics, the 3rd, 4th etc, it makes sense that any “Bridge” above the true OTVIII level would be OT hatting actions having to do with rehabbing one’s abilities to operate across the dynamics, as Marty and some of the others who post here do, for example.

  574. Thanks Tony. I appreciate your posts too, for their directness and freedom from bullshit!

  575. yes Jim. I believe “Policy” was written because many of the people hired into orgs were not going to have the judgement necessary to operate as staff without it. As it happened, too many of them did not even have the judgement to operate effectively with it. It didn’t help that some like Miscavige deliberately distorted it’s meaning because they had other fish to fry. Others may have thought they were “doing the right thing”.

    As you say, here is no substitute for a full understanding. A full understanding can sometimes take a while to achieve. Policy was intended to bridge that time gap between cluelessness and a full understanding, or even keep orgs somewhat operational by those who weren’t getting the full understanding and perhaps weren’t going to get it for a long time.

    Helpers are always needed, if just to carry the hammers and nails, even if they don’t yet know how to use them. Policy was thus intended to backup judgement,and bridge any lacunae(now there’s a fine word!) in

  576. In the last video-talk Phil Spickler said a few words about his ex-son-in-law, Tom Cruise.

  577. poisonivyherself

    Thank you for the link. Interesting. Phil seems like such a kind, gentle, artistic soul.

  578. Artistic, yes. If you go to his website, you’ll find not only his other videos and articles, but pictures of his paintings too.

  579. Pingback: Thanks For Participating | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  580. SLAH’s *short little heehee

  581. Pingback: Scientology Knows Drama | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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