Billion Dollar Babies – Cruise and Miscavige

While I was going through my decompression from Scientology Inc. my wife and I watched Paul Haggis‘ Oscar-winning film Million Dollar Baby.   The movie prompted me to have the first in-depth discussion on the subject of Scientology that I had had since leaving the cult.   I pointed out to Monique Haggis’  wonderful depiction of a number of elements of L. Ron Hubbard’s seminal work, The Code of Honor.

I was to later learn that David Miscavige and his deputy Tom Cruise had quite an opposite reaction to Haggis’ award-winning work.

Movie guys Tom and Dave on a date

I covered it in The Scientology Reformation: What Every Scientologist Should Know, as follows:

At first, Wilhere acted as if this surprise encounter and Tom’s immediate cottoning to Nazanin (Boniadi) would take priority over the “secret mission” for which she’d been selected. But after Nazanin lived with Cruise for a couple of weeks, the heights of Miscavige’s conceit apparently made him forget to inform Nazanin that the “secret project” had been cancelled. Nazanin began to suspect her encounter with Cruise was set up from the beginning.  She was so overwhelmed, though, by the affections of the number-one movie star in the world and the number-two Scientologist in the world, that she was afraid to create an upset. Her trepidation was exacerbated by the fact that she was constantly being coached by Tommy Davis and his then-wife Nadine, as well as Tommy’s future wife Jessica Feshbach, on how to act around Cruise. They were clearly working for the boss, David Miscavige, and the coaching was constantly reinforced with implications that her pleasing Tom Cruise was the most important thing in the world of Scientology.

Ultimately, Cruise’s own behavior became so erratic that Nazanin had difficultly continuing to play the obedient wife-to-be.

One evening, while Miscavige and his wife Shelly were visiting Tom’s home in Telluride, Colorado, they watched a private screening of the Paul Haggis written, Oscar-winning movie Million Dollar Baby. David Miscavige proclaimed extreme distaste for the movie, saying the content indicated that Paul Haggis, a Scientologist at the time, was a depraved person.

“Yeah,” Tom piled on, “what is up with Haggis? Is he back on board?”

Miscavige asserted, “No, that film was so low-toned and completely psych-oriented.”

“Yeah,” Tom double-piled on, “he needs to get his ethics in.”

Tom and Dave apparently prefer billion dollar babies to million dollar babies:

137 responses to “Billion Dollar Babies – Cruise and Miscavige

  1. I thought Million Dollar Baby was a wonderful film, and so did the Academy. It did win Best picture of the Year and Best Actress, and I believe Best Screenplay. David Miscavige is completely whack and out of touch with reality, Cruise has a severely Crashing Mis-U on “out ethics”

  2. Tom Gallagher

    “Yeah,” Tom double-piled on, “he needs to get his ethics in.”

    It’s pretty obvious Cruise is glib (among other things).

  3. Let’s not forget, Miscavige was the mastermind micromanaging the *classic* movie adaptation of Battlefield Earth.

    It sucks to be Miscavige….

  4. Great pic “Movie guys Tom and Dave on a date” Christ he’s even shorter than TC.

  5. Now that it has the Cruise and Miscavige seal of distaste I’m inclined to watch the film.

    BTW do David Miscavige and Tom Cruise really call themselves simply “Big Beings” or do they have a better name for their delusions? I mean you have “The Skulls”, “The Illuminati”, “The Raelians” and so on; if they had some cross conspiracy world leader super elite meeting can you imagine David and Tom being announced as “The Big Beings”…

  6. I loved the movie “Million Dollar Baby” and at the time I didn’t even know that the director/writer was a Scientologist.
    No wonder TC Movies are worse and worse one after the other. His ability to grant beingness has fallen down.

    Tom, DO something.

  7. “The ILILLIPUTS”, I guess.

  8. Sorry, that was mean. 😦

  9. plainoldthetan

    This strikes right at the core of what’s gone wrong and continues to be wrong with Scientology Inc: any “out-ethics” is done my someone else, over there. Miscavige (and apparently Tom) can’t see that the “out-ethics” is being done by themselves, right there in present time and present space.

    Their arrogance leads them to conclude that they have the insight and perception to conclude things about someone’s “out-ethics” but allows them to fail to inspect themselves. That part of the “Miscavige valence” is what
    makes being in an org so uncomfortable. Especially a Sea Org org, like Flag.

    So much of the time these days, and adjudication of “out-ethics” occurs as the snap judgement of someone who hasn’t even communicated with the “out-ethics” person. So it’s just the accusers *opinion* in the end, not a *fact*.

    When a person’s “opinion” becomes “fact” he enforces on others, we have a name for that.


  10. Yes he totally perverted it. The book is very specific about the visual aspects. I believe Hubbard wrote it with a film in mind. I believe that had they followed Hubbard’s visual description the movie would have been a smashing success.

    The story is a metaphor and a warning for what could happen to an uber technological cultur that does not put emphasis on the humanities (the Psychlos). JC/dm movie totally misses it.

  11. And here I was thinking the Paul’s film was great. Shows you what I know.

  12. This valence was exported to all Orgs and Missions, worldwide, trough the IAS.

  13. This movie was so out-ethics that it won 4 Oscars. I guess the Academy Awards are out-ethics too.

  14. Dave! Tom! Someone is at the front door!

  15. threefeetback

    Katie is just the chaperone.

  16. Marty, just finished your book and loved it! thanks for writing it. I like Tony in the last blog did not want it to end!!! You know I step back and look at all of this and wow this little man has done so much harm to mankind that it sickens me. I think I will watch Million Dollar Baby again for my decompression time!!!

  17. My reaction, exactly!
    Sure makes me want to watch that movie now.

  18. An artist should be free to make anything their mind can create. I was onboard and onlines when I saw Million Dollar Baby and I had no problem with it. I thought it was a great film. Why can’t you make something “low toned”? These guys are arrogant beyond belief. It’s like Nazi germany for gods sake. Artists are supposed to have a proper viewpoint and need to be “handled” in ethics if they dont? Not my kind of group.

  19. Yes, of course. They are down-stat on giving TC any Oscars.

  20. It looks like they were just holding hands.

    Now I’m laughing again thinking about this:

  21. “When a person’s “opinion” becomes “fact” he enforces on others, we have a name for that.”

    DIVORCE! I just watched Katie Holmes and her daddy ruthlessly put ethics in on Tom Cruise and David Miscavige.

  22. The only good review it got was one critic calling it masterful “camp”.


    Deliberately exaggerated and theatrical in style, typically for humorous effect: “the movie seems more camp than shocking or gruesome”.

  23. “He agreed to adapt L Ron Hubbard’s novel after meeting Travolta, and said that he spent time on board the Church’s private cruise ship “walking around in a robe, sandals, smoking Cuban cigars and drinking fine scotch” as part of his research.”

    AND Cuban cigars!

  24. I guess they were getting his ethics in aboard the Freewinds!

  25. Li'll bit of stuff

    Unless there is some extra thick reinforcing steel laid in by
    miscavige, into his “successful ” cloning job of TC.,I really
    suspect ( and have repeatedly said so,recently) that the
    star is set to implode, from the imposition upon him of so
    many entheta and insane “enforced realities.” courtesy of
    the chilling “prince of darkness.”

    No two persons, could be more different –than TC and the
    late, legendary,King of pop–Michael Jackson, and this is
    not to compare their influenced (God forbid) later years.

    But one thing they definitely shared, was being NUMBER
    ONE in their respective fields. World fame, it was pointed out
    by LRH himself, often comes at a heavy price!

    As many a star has often found out (too late!) the over the
    top attention they get, may become completely self consuming
    and, as this progresses, the excessive red carpet treatment
    leads them to start believing they ARE the synthetic persona
    created for/by them. Then they’re finished!

    They’re no longer INTERESTED— just INTERESTING! (LRH)

    With an introverted view of their own self importance, this is
    an open invitation for any promotions opportunist, sharp at
    the business, to attach themselves for a milk & honey ride
    into the big time—-often with the deep regret of a bitter and
    thoroughly exploited, but sometimes wiser “ex” star!

    The point to this?

    Comparing Michael and Tom . There wasn’t much GENUINE
    happiness visible in them, as they progress/ed through their
    stellar careers. Michael’s on stage persona, as with Tom’s
    were/is certainly polished and convincing, but they were/are both concealing immense secrets, which could/may not come out in time to save them.

    In the case of Tom (the thetan, that is,) we shall have to
    wait and see.

  26. The scriptwriter, J.D. Shapiro, after personally accepting the Razzie award for “worst movie of the decade”, wrote an amusing article in the NY Post describing that micromanaging and how it turned the original script into something unrecognizable to the finished product.

  27. Marty, I apologize if I’m broaching a delicate subject, but how on earth is that little shrimp Miscavige capable if beating people up as savagely as has been reported. I look at that picture and I see a VERY small man. And then I recall of the these episodes of ass-kickings that I’ve read about for years and I’m just puzzled.

    Does DM always walk around in a posse, with bodyguards and other protecters always within safe distance? Does he hire outside musclemen to protect him? I’m just shocked that in the all the years of this abuse, that subordinates didn’t from time to time, in the heat of the moment and the rage of a fight, didn’t pummel that little prick into a pulp.

    And why is this never discussed? Who are the people who literally surround DM on a daily basis, as he goes about his day, acting as his personal accomplices?

  28. Does Tom Cruise have one original thought. Jesus Christ it is downright embarrassing – Katie must have witnessed some horrible shit. Excuse my language but there is no other way to say it.

  29. Gee, Tom Cruise would n-e-v-e-r do a low-toned or psych-oriented or depraved movie, would he?

  30. peggy oconnor

    I am not a Scientologist, but was curious and exploring. I did order your book and read it yesterday. It saddens me to see a very disturbed person who through fear and abuses of all three types has destroyed a concept that seemed quite workable into a 21st century concentration camp. We all know how WWII ended and I am certain as time and power shift, so to will the reign of your COB. As for Mr. Cruise, flattery and gifts feed little egos. And as a final note, my uncle who was a Jesuit priest, (Catholic am I) often thought the word BIG stood for benevolent, industrious, and genuine.

  31. Mind boggling analogy Calvin. While I’d like to think so, I have to also wonder the insulation both these cats can afford. Miscavige is with reckless abandon digging his own hole to hell. I dono about Tom, he’s definitely and clearly part and parcel to all of late, but what may shake loose and what all may fall out… damn, short of SOS, the closest thing I have to a working crystal ball is Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and Karen#1.

  32. Sorry, missed your last sentence – which I concur.

  33. These questions have been answered thoroughly herein. Your education starts now.

  34. threefeetback

    Looks like a change of operating environment will be accompanied by a slight population shift from Washington DC back to Chicago and Hawaii where a new home and bunker is now being purchased.

  35. Dear Marty,
    This place is a challenge. And that doesn’t mean OSA, BOT, TROLL, THE FENCE, Gone Fishing or any other silly insult. Neither is it to implement faultfinding or blame.

    But Marty: How on earth do you claim to have knowledge of what happened on an apparently private dinner?

    ML/Real life suffer and bleeds.

  36. Sorry about duplicating your link Oracle, my comment was in moderation when I saw yours. It is a funny article.

  37. With Cruise and Miscavige we have an unique couple: the one is just plain stupid and the other one is just plain evil.
    And this is the-creme-de-la creme of Scientology Inc.? Yes, it is.
    I prefer the-creme-de-la-creme of Scientology Independents by far.

  38. I saw Billion dollar Baby twice. I loved it. It was a blockbuster, the emotions shared by “almost” all who viewed it. I read your book Marty, yesterday, and I loved it. DM/TC are so out of valence that everything must look just the opposite of reality to them. A complete misconception.

  39. Hey Marty or Mosey, would you email me @

    Sorry, I could not find you guys email. I would like to buy an autographed copy. Can I send you cash with enough to cover shipping? (I got a signed one from Scobee, Im going for a collection 🙂 )

    I am assuming it is not available on Nook book?

    Wouldn’t matter, I really would like a signed copy if possible.

    I will look for an email, sorry I had to write it on here. Please feel free to delete this post

  40. I tried. I really – really tried. Barry Peppar was in it and he was in Saving Private Ryan – so why not – it is probably bad–but how shitty can it be.

    Words can not describe this …. this….i don’t wtf it is….

    The movie, the acting, the plot, the writing….

    Come to think about it — there is not a shittier film that Battlefirled Earth—hey Rinder, did you see 25th Hour?

    Spike Lee Film, Edward Norton & PS Hoffman Curvy Rosario Dawson & my main man Barry Pepper…now THATS How you make a movie


  41. science lover

    Hello everyone,
    To make this short… I am an atheist that became interested in Scientology through reading Dianetics and I have a question that is completely unrelated to this thread so please forgive or ignore this post. I take science very seriously and believe all claims must meet their burden of proof, so I was wondering if anyone can or knows anybody who can go exterior and prove it to me (a card behind a back or something, I believe this is called “parlor tricks”). Any reply to this post would be very much appreciated.
    Thank you!

  42. martyrathbun09

    Tell you boss that I’ve got more lines than Ma Bell; but he already knows that.

  43. You know, Mike, Miscaviage had his own “Music room” in the basement of the Main Building loaded with different instruments that he was supposedly learning to play. I believe he couldn’t carry a tune if one placed it in a back-pack for him. Then he re-writes Battlefield Earth so that it becomes the laughing stock of the Holly-World. Then he slaps his pcs and kills a Pre-OT he C/Ses for. To wit, Miscaviage has no talent and I bet it just kills him to know that about himself.

    ML Tom

  44. Just idle speculation: The movie simply missed both of these guys withholds.
    They both mock up being these tough, macho guys who could take on the entire world single handedly. Glib mental maundering.

    In real life, on or off the set, they both secretly realize that Hillary could beat the crap out of either one of them.

  45. I can do it right now. Let’s see… I can see it now. You’ve got one finger sticking up in the middle of your right hand. Yes, I’m certain of that now.

    ML Tom

  46. Hey, we were on the same page! Laughter! XXOO

  47. The problem is that the scientific people who want abilities proven to them expect the person who will prove it to them to become serious and heavy about it , but then its impossible to prove it because if they become serious and heavy (like MEST) they cannot use their abilities .

  48. The guy who is the COB of the Church of $cientology can do that because he is the greatest ‘ecclesiastical leader’ of all time and he almost always has his back behind a card. I’d give a call to your local Church Organization and ask for David Miscaviage.

  49. Good that you read Dianetics. Best thing to do is get an Indie auditor
    and get audited to Clear. Read Marty new book , in the back is routes to the Independent Scientology Bridge. I personally have tons of such storys
    but its better that you experience this for yourself.
    Be your own judge and explore like Darwin and Sir Edmund Hillary,
    Sir Edmund did not look to see if anyone could climb a mountain, he just did it with Tensig Nargay on Mt Everest.

  50. Haggis was the writer, not director, and he is no longer a Scientologist. When the movie was written he was disillusioned with the corporate church, but since he was a celebrity they still tried to promote him as a member though I don’t believe he had been active in quite awhile. After the corporate cult continued their gay bashing agenda via Prop 8 he publicly severed ties with the cult and no longer considers himself a Scientologist in any form.

    The fact that DM hated the movie only goes to show he is clueless about movies. (Any one have any idea what films he does like? Top Gun doesnt count because that is a porn film for DM. Taking into account the look of Scientology today, the event stage production, the decor of idle morgues, the packaging and promos for their products, clearly demonstrates the axiom money can’t buy taste. DMs taste is in his mouth, he has some of the tackiest, most awful, taste I have ever witnessed. I think his litmus test for everything is “is it expensive looking, gold and hideously overdone.” If the answer is yes on all three counts he approves it. It’s the only way to explain that hysterical Hermes shirt he wore in his music video debut singing “We stand tall.”

  51. Wouldn’t you like to know….

  52. threefeetback


  53. There are tests done for a long time with yogis. Many many. Google it and you may find some.
    The Brits did some investigations when they occupied India. The book Autobiography of a Yogi is rife with so called miracles. I say so called because a miracle is simply an ability that present material science doesn’t have an answer for yet.
    Everything is science.

  54. Everything is science meaning: everything is knowable. And Science Lover, I knew a very old monk who told me that he saw his teacher on numerous occasions do some amazing things. And this monk was a wise man himself who shied away from normally talking about such things.

    Creating objects, bodies etc. Not wishful magical thinking mumbo jumbo but the real deal.

    The miracles of one age becomes common place in the next.

  55. To be honest I am dismayed when I read slurs about the size of people or about short people.

    There are entire nations of people that are shorter than Tom Cruise and David Miscavige. Anyone walking through Thailand, Nepal or the Philippines, most areas of Japan, comes to realize the heights we are accustomed to are relative. 5’5″ is average height in most of Japan for a male. The slurs because of height is cultural prejudice.

    Sammy Gravano, (Sammy The Bull) , was the force within N.Y. Mafia and he was 5’5″ and could kick anybody’s ass. Even John Gotti was afraid of him. Alexander the Great was 4’1″. Genghis Khan was 5ft 1in .

    Al Pacino is 5’5″. How beautiful is that man? Suddenly it doesn’t matter right?

    The fixed ideas people have about height and potential is very interesting. I am 5’5″ , a few times I have been angry, I pulled one highway patrol officer (much bigger than I) onto the 101 Freeway that got testy with me and I gave someone else who was about 6″ tall, a guy a bloody lip. The first called for back up help and the second ran away from me.I smacked some guy in the Sea Org that yelled at me and he spun. Intention is cause. I do not see height or a size as a handicap for anyone as long as they are healthy. I have known some men that were partially handicapped with overweight issues. Not being able to walk long distances etc. Clearly, competence and intelligence are not measured in inches.

    I would think intelligence would be of the highest value. Here we have Kurt Weiland in O.S.A., former C/O OSA Int, that guy was a giant. A real big hunk of man. Being run all over the place by David Miscavige like a fetch dog. Heber Jentz is pretty tall too. Intention is cause.

    Truly, when you make a slur about someone’s size, you only make yourself look small.

    Besides that, if you are from New York, you are probably just used to pushing back when someone pushes you. No matter the size difference. That is totally socially acceptable there but New York is a different climate.

    For myself, I have never seen David Miscavige alone. He is always with a posse. I almost beat someone up from CMO but then I looked at all the young innocent kids around her with their clipboards, and realized I would probably end up hitting one or more of then too and I changed my mind.

    Besides that, just because David Miscavige is on a motivator flow, does not mean a Scientologist will get sucked into it and beat the shit out of him. That is getting sucked into his motivator flow. Most Scientologists are too aware to be carried into those kinds of forces or the ded dedex forces. It is one thing to follow him down the hallway, but to follow him down the domestic abuse way, most people will not cross that line. It is not an outpoint, it is a plus point.

    I discussed it as best I could. 🙂

  56. Everything operates according to law. But the external science of the observed and the inner science of the observer yeild different results.
    Unless of course you are double blinding sub atomic particle behavior.

    That is where mind and matter intersected in the external sciences.

    On the other hand, there is a lot of magical thinking delusions being pimped as real in the market place of spiritual possibilities. That is where some of the bad name of spiritual science comes from.

  57. Who / What would oppose Marty?

  58. It’s a good discussion TO. I could add, they don’t strike back for the same reason those in the “Hole” will publicly claim they are in the Hole voluntarily. It’s true as far as it goes, but the bottom line is they are mind-controlled or “brainwashed”.

    About “small people” – let’s make it clear we are talking about those who are “small-minded” or “spiritual midgets”. That’s really what we’re talking about in DM’s case. (I am only about 5’6″ tall myself, physically 🙂 )

  59. If you’re a die hard atheist, you could buy a camera set for “remote viewing” purposes. Very little training required to operate with such a set.

    BTW, you should wear some pants next time you write on this blog. 😉

  60. Come on TO, surely you didn’t mean exception for little pricks? I like little people just fine, but little pricks is the subject to hand. :–)

  61. No, she’s just a little DB in tow.

  62. EntralledObserver

    Well, isn’t that convenient…

  63. EnthralledObserver

    *sigh* typo in my own name… now that is depressing… I apologise.

  64. I was in no way making a slur about anyone’s size. I’m sorry if it came off that way. I was simply stating a fact. But gimme a break… Sammy the Bull was built like a bull. DM appears to be quite petite and physically unintimidating. And to defend one’s self when physically attacked is not a just trait of New Yorker’s, but of all humankind- even if the aggressor is your boss or spiritual leader. I just can’t imagine getting violently pummeled by someone without some kind of physical reaction, however slight.

    But I didn’t mean to sound antagonistic, my real question was if DM always travels in a pack, and who makes up that pack? Does he have bodyguards with him daily?

    And Alaska Ronn, I’ve read nearly 50% of the posts on this entire website. If my questions have been answered thoroughly then please humor me and answer it one more time. On a daily basis who is DM closest to? Who are his chief enablers?

  65. It’s available from Amazon as an eBook for Kindle, but you can convert the download to Nook format using the free program, Calibre. Before you convert the Kindle book in Calibre, you will have to download the free Kindle reading app for your PC if you haven’t done so already. Once you have done that and you verify that you can read the book on your PC, open Calibre. Tell it to Add a book. In the dialogue box that comes up, navigate (browse) to the My Kindle Content folder in My Documents. The downloaded book will have a name such as BN004N851E0_BOK.azw. Click on the .azw file ignoring the others that were downloaded along with it. Once you’ve imported it into Calibre, follow the Calibre instructions to convert it to .epub, which is the Nook format. Connect your Nook to your PC and tell Calibre to export it to your device. I do this whenever Amazon is cheaper than Barnes & Noble – which is most of the time.

  66. TO,
    You’re taking all our fun away! I do understand your point though. Obviously a persons height has no bearing on their character.

    In the midgets case (oops) we suspect he hates the fact he is short so (we) I enjoy the tease. And I subscribe to the motto that if you can’t take it don’t dish it.

  67. The #1 question in my mind is, why would anyone want to prove anything to you specifically anyway?

  68. I observed this phenomenon once. The guys name was Pat Price. It was at an event in Vegas. He had me pick a card out of a deck while he stood three feet away with his back turned. I pulled out a card, ensuring there was no way he or anyone else could see it. I slipped it back quickly and before he turned around he told me what it was. He did it with two more tries, both correct.
    It actually freaked me out that he did it.
    He looked at me very sincerely and said he could only do it when he was inspired and when he felt the person he was doing it with would not totally freak out. He then smiled, gently took the cards out of my hand and went to mingle with the crowd.
    I went outsid and had a cigarette.

    You of course, will not believe a word of this, but I enjoyed telling the story again.

  69. On tonight’s Chelsea Lately Show on the E! channel at 11 PM, they are going to be talking about “maybe TC is leaving Scientology to be with Katie”.

    It’s on right now on the East coast.

  70. No. I’m being genuine. I think you are all good people, I’m just actively trying to find out if we are a spirit as Scientology says. I’ve done this with other religions too.

  71. I don’t care if they’re serious and heavy or not, I would just like some personal evidence. Burden of proof and all.

  72. The token heterosexual?

  73. Thanks Brian, very intriguing posts.

  74. Unfortunately being audited to clear would cost me, I assume, thousands of dollars, so I was wondering if anyone would say they can or know somebody who can prove to me exterior is not a myth. If I saw that, I think I would immediately pause everything else in my life and jump right into independent Scientology, doing everything.

  75. A hater X
    An OSA bot LF
    Tommy Davis sf
    David McTinyfists LFBD F/N Ind.

  76. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    science lover, The next time I’m exterior you’ll be the first person I go to visit.

  77. It was brilliantly done. You gotta wonder what kind of goods Miss Katie had on him, must have been the doozy’s as that settlement went down faster than any divorce settlement I’ve ever seen. I’ve been watching my client go thru a divorce for 4 years with her ex and it’s still not settled. Katie’s divorce lawyer daddy must have coached her on the goods to get and she got them! That in itself must have taken balls of steel to keep it secret. High salutes to them for garnering the evidence that could condemn the shit out Cruise and Corp Scn that resulted in the quickest settlement of that magnitude in history. That in itself is an admission of guilt for Cruise’s and Scn Inc., as it is well known how micro managed Cruise is by David Miscavige, they must have been terrified of it going to public – I heard on the news that Katie wanted the hearings public and thereafter wham bam it settled.

    Further evidence will be how Cruise maintains any kind of friendly relations with Katie, and he won’t, because what he has done to her is heinous with Miscavige looming over him…. Makes me wonder how Katie will balance that dynamic in light of Suri. In the end Katie got her freedom from the suppression, so to speak, though she can’t talk about it which would be the ultimate healing. America’s sweatheart is going to have do to some healing as she legitimately loved Cruise and was so betrayed due to Miscavige and Cruise’s adulation to him, my prayers are with her. Someone will speak out someday, just a matter of time. We can get a small clue of the environment surrounding Cruise’s camp from what happened to Naz (Nazanin Boniadi) and how she was snuffed out of existence and cannot speak out about her horrible experience other than thru others who are not bound by the non disclosure agreement (my guess) however we personally know someone who saw Naz scrubbing toilets but cannot speak out as under the radar…maybe someday when the Corp Scn threat is over that person can speak out about witnessing the truth.

  78. Li'll bit of stuff

    Uh oh AR! Looks like you’ve just set yourself up for
    another lashing! This time by “little pricks!”

  79. BMOke,

    Yes, I did see the 25th hour and loved it. Fantastic movie. You are smart,

  80. I agree Chris. I saw Million Dollar Baby and found it hauntingly sad. There is an emotion I know that does not have any name I know of. I call it “beautiful sadness” — a term someone gave to it once and shared with me. It is a feeling of deep truth, utter compassion for the human condition, a sense of a sadness about how small we are against the stars (to muddle up Leonard Cohen a bit), with a streak of the numinous (to piggyback on Carl Sagan), and all that pervaded with an unshakeable sense that it is all somehow beautiful.

    In fact, I found Million Dollar Baby very _aesthetic_ on multiple levels and totally _symbolic_ on many levels of meaning — I love it when writers achieve that. And I think DM and TC’s definition of low-toned and mine do not agree. I do not agree that anything below X on the tone scale is a misemotion. I believe that a misemotion is an emotion inappropriate to the situation. It would be misemotion to experience joy at someone else’s suffering, even though “joy” is high-toned. It would be misemotion to feel deeply saddened by a success — not because sadness is in the grief-ish range, but because it is inappropriate to the situation.

    So … I think that DM and TC had misemotion regarding Million Dollar Baby. They were critical of it not because of the art of it, but because they had by-passed charge on Haggis, and their overts against Haggis may have made them critical of him. It’s not that they had to like the movie, it’s that they do not seem clear on why they felt they did not like it.

    BTW, I actually liked Battlefield Earth, and yes, in part because it did come across as very camp. I’ve been a sci-fi fan since I was a kid, and I found the book itself to be a very fun read for that genre of fiction. Maybe some day it will be made again under better direction.

  81. Re “… but they were/are both concealing immense secrets, which could/may not come out in time to save them.” Well said.

    Compare this from gnostic gospel of Thomas: “”If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not bring it forth, what you do not have within you will kill you.”

    Reminds me again of what Marty says: “Tell the truth, and it becomes your past; lie, and it becomes your future.” (May not be an exact quote but the concept is just so darn true!)

  82. plainoldthetan

    As a further thought, the post MDB exchange between TC and DM shows what a crappy manager DM is; it further shows what a poor example he sets for people. A manager with his wits about him will NEVER upbraid people in front of other people. It’s essentially a THIRD PARTY type action. Let’s pretend that Paul Haggis did something in-ethics when he made MDB. Let’s say he even talked to his ethics officer about it and did a documented Doubt condition about it. Would Miscavige know it? Would TC? Of course not. The problem with voicing snap-judgement serfac opinions about someone else’s ethics is…gasp…you could be wrong! As a manager, you don’t have the data to say anything about someone else’s ethics unless he’s come to you, put hands on cans, and given you a thorough interview about it! Otherwise, the safe thing to do as a manager is to apply HCO PL ETHICS, REVIEW (29 April 1965 III) and keep your yap shut.

  83. Science lover, can science prove that love exists? The truth is that the most important things in life are probably more subjective than objective.

  84. SL, you must realize that what we see and perceive “normally” is done via the body. We have two eyes that have three color cones, so we see in stereo and we see a small spectrum of available light. We have two ears, and so hear vibrations in the air slightly out of phase between the two ears allowing us to perceive direction of sound – and of course, we perceive only a portion of the sound available, modified by the Fletcher-Munson curve – the frequency response of the ear. Dogs will hear different things than we do in bodies. Butterflies will see different things than we do in bodies. The focal length of the eye is ~ 50mm, which is why pictures taken with 50mm lens look “about right.” But, owls and hawks have different focal lengths and see things we cannot see. The world looks different to them.

    I say all these things because when we as beings leave the body – go exterior – it is not like a “virtual head” pops out of us like a periscope. You don’t perceive a wall the same way exterior as you do in your body. In fact, a lot of times, you are not pinpointed to a focal point to which all perceptions flow. The first time I knew I was exterior it was a weird experience and totally different than what I thought it would be. It was like I was perceiving the world from 50 viewpoints at once – I looked at the ceiling with my eyes, and I could see me back – not just from the ceiling but from all around the body.

    Deepak Chopra described it well when he said that we are not in the physical universe, the physical universe is in us. A little closer to home – when exterior, you are not out of the body, the body is in you, and you are bigger than the body.

    Any perceptions I tell you I see when exterior will not compute to you as a body-perceiving science person. Remember, everything is mostly space, and exterior to the body we are not constrained by the physical limitations of the body, so a piece of paper with writing on it on a table in a room is really a thin piece of nothing on another piece of nothing that is, in the overall scheme of things, surrounded by a sea of air and broad-spectrum electro-magnetic pulses which are only slightly less dense than the paper and the table. There is a lot of nothing between atomic particles and as a being, we slip right on through.

    So, you have an idea of exteriorization which is different from reality, which is okay, but don’t consider it “proof” that exteriorization does not exist if you don’t see what you would expect to see.

    The only proof I can think of is:

    Be three feet in back of your head.

    If you did it, there’s your proof.

  85. I like your uncle’s definition of BIG, Peggy! I’ll bet he was a BIG-hearted guy. I’ll remember this definition. Thanks for posting it. 🙂

  86. Hi Marty,

    It seems that portland84 telegraphed “its” identity to you before “it” even made “its” comment.

    But to be honest I also wondered how you know all this stuff in such detail. I’ve ordered your book, so maybe it is there. Is it?
    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Miscavige with his billion dollar slush funds must KNOW to a very high degree of certainty that you have documentation or irrefutable verification of what you said or he would have sued the crap out of you already. Ditto for Tom Cruise. So they must already know that doing that would end very badly for them.
    Still, it hard not to be curious. Curiosity has never really killed any cats.
    Come on, Marty. Any hints for us cats?

  87. Gern Gaschoen

    Battlefield Earth should have resulted in an instant declare on DM. It was a disgraceful failure and betrayal of the Church, itself, by its supposed leader.

    I really, really hate the fact that the Church inner structure is not working.

    At Int at the time, It was clear to everyone – EVERYONE – at Int level, that DM was running the Films Program, as a MISSION, directly. Because NOBODY else was “good enough” to do it, duh.

    So, the comm-ev on the whole shitball would go like this, because we’re talking about the most On-Policy org (DM/RTC) in the world here, where all the Admin is of course in, Daily Reports for entire project, stats, KR’s filed, &etc., and it would go like this: Staff Folders of all Staff involved, on the desks. Open. Read. Close. Declare.

    But yet, the situation: “Battlefield Earth, total disaster and no Liability to LRH yet performed”, and all the while we have the same people on post today?

    . . .

    HCO BRING ORDER: All Sea Org members reading this are obliged to open the files and reveal all secrets held in Orgs for review. Comm-Ev David Miscavige!

    Its Head on a Pike Time, Squirrels!

  88. At least a scientist is keeping an open mind about it. He will operate on hypotheses and reject them if they don’t work. He knows the truth is very flexible and multi-valued. (See the multi value logic of Hubbard!)
    Serious and heavy are what fundamentalists or fanatics get: a tenet or postulate is there for eternity.
    If an ability cannot be demonstrated, what is the use? ‘If it is true for you, then it is true for you’, as principle, also has its limits, as any principle has. When ‘believing’ is stressed, instead of ‘demonstrating’ then you leave the field of science and technology, your enter the field of mythology and/or religion.

  89. Appropos of nothing, I just saw this article on the site where the author acknowledges LRH for his work on discovering associative factors between the mind and body. If anyone is interested the relevant section is 15 paragraphs into the article:
    It is good to see people from fields completely disrelated to Dianetics and Scientology making the distinction between LRH’s research and the controversial “church” that his research spawned. In other words, DM, you are not Source. Except for your own overts.

  90. Good morning Mr Miscavige. Welcome to London

    and East Grinstead

    You are cordially invited to the “Cult in your Backyard” conference on Saturday – the TV cameras will be there so OSA spies and hecklers also welcome as it makes great TV!

  91. The conference will be streamed online:

    Anyone in the UK – please come along. Old Courtyard, East Court East Grinstead Saturday from around 1.30pm.

  92. Joe Pendleton

    I would say that if a person claimed that he could go fully exterior at will and travel wherever he wanted to as a spirit, then he should have no trouble going out of his body and viewing what could not be seen by using his eyes. I was active in Scientology for 35 years, much of it as an auditor and a case supervisor and I NEVER came across anyone I knew personally who claimed to have such an ability.

  93. tee..hee. .does DM have his hand in TC’s back a real date??!!

  94. martyrathbun09

    They call this place Casablanca for a reason.

  95. I first got into Scientology over 20 years ago, and I have never met anyone who claimed the ability that you seek to be proved…nor have I known anyone who had such a goal. They may exist, but i havent known them.

    Though exteriorization can and does happen as a result of scientology processing, it is a gradient thing and usually temporary, nor is it under the person’s control. By gradient, I mean a person can be “exterior” with no, partial, or full perceptions separate from their bodily senses.

  96. I like the caption underneath the picture, ‘Movie Guys Tom and Dave on a Date’. It’s a great way to get under that midgets skin. Funny.

  97. Welcome to the Circus of the IAS

    You always wanted to be
    Part of a circus company
    For the fun and death defying
    But in time you forgot life is small in the big top
    And your dreams were slowly dying
    What you wanted was not a crime
    You could’ve done it

    Now you’re always just a little
    A little in the middle
    A little in the middle of where you’re bound
    Always just a little in the middle …

  98. Plus any person with personal integrity challenging what he sees as an out-point.

  99. DWD (Down with Dave)

    I LOVE that shirt! He should put it on Ebay – I would bid for that……wait a minute…..I am getting some ideas for Halloween………….

  100. Well, they don’t have to of course, but I would be willing to pay money to have this proven to me, and if you can do it, it should be pretty easy.

    Another bonus is that I would take up Scientology seriously as a scientifically accurate explanation to life. More auditors is a good thing, no?

  101. Love is a commonly felt emotion, I think it is a scientifically accepted fact (in the colloquial sense) that people feel love.

    What it is is a different topic, and I believe many different scientists are working on that from different avenues.

  102. Haha, thank you. Feel free to scare me, whatever it takes to make me believe.

  103. Thank you, very interesting. Are you saying you couldn’t see what a big shape is behind you, then? If someone could consistently say what something is outside of their field of vision, I think that would count as something.

    Also, I have some scientologist friends who tell me “be three feet in back of your head” too, no matter how hard I try it doesn’t seem to work. =(

  104. Perhaps I could observe someone auditing themselves until they go exterior and then place something behind them and ask what it is?

  105. That was the first thing that popped into my head. Miscavige is is legend in the movie business (in his own mind.) The Youtube video that you guys did talking about how he wanted to see the Battlefield Earth daily’s and was all “this is going to be so great” then distanced himself like he was dealing with a plague when the negative reviews came rolling in. The guy has zero concept of the code of honor.

  106. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks for your inputs AR!

  107. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks for the ack.FOTF20!2. I must confess to an
    ever present natural curiosity concerning my fellow participants on this blog? The “handle” FOTF2012?
    I’m really intrigued! Care to enlighten us?

    Calvin B. Duffield
    declaration 12may2012 Mother’s Day
    Indie 500 # 301

  108. Li'll bit of stuff

    Great yin & yan,man!

  109. Jean-François Genest

    • I believe that the film/movie Battlefield Earth needs to be REMADE, with Steve Hall (Thoughtful) as the screenplay writer. Θ

  110. Jean-François Genest

    + 100 to this string 🙂

  111. Jean-François Genest

    It is like being next to an octopus ☼

  112. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hey, prof! Where you been?

  113. I do get it. But we have some guys on this side of the fence that are 5″5″ , and less, too. Some powerful forces! 🙂 So I cringe knowing our own people are under attack also on the height issues when they read them on this blog.

  114. A wrong particle.

  115. There is a PURPOSE to this group. One PURPOSE is CORRECTION.
    One PURPOSE is to KNOW. The Church cycles through the Org Board. It has been stuck in department 21 because the person in charge of the activity is a criminal. One PURPOSE of this group is a department 21 purpose. People that CHOOSE not to be blown OFF PURPOSE by the fact that the Church is OFF PURPOSE and stuck in department 21. We would not be in department 21 pushing truth and justice if the Church was ON PURPOSE and NOT STUCK in department 21 because of some criminal.

    Anyone who can not contribute to that purpose but actually opposes it, is a wrong particle on this purpose line.

    They would be a right particle on some other line.

  116. I never did see it. But when The Master was released, I decided to have a look at Battlefield Earth on Netflix before I went to see The Master in the theatre.

    OMFG, Battlefield Earth was bad. I mean, the very first frame was bad. The opening flyover sequence was bad, the first scene in the village was bad, the next and the next scenes were worse and worse, and Terl’s first scene was just awful.

    I read the book – Terl was effin’ SCARY. Travolta played him like a caricature. Worf from Star Trek was scarier that Travolt’s Terl, and Worf’s a good guy.

    I finally gave up – I couldn’t watch any more.

  117. Thanks for the question Li’ll bit of stuff. Here’s a bit on my “handle.”

    FOTF stands for Freedom Of Thought Forever. 2012 is just the year I made this commitment to be unshakeable in my “universe.”

    I did Scientology in three locations on the west coast in the 1970s and 1980s. I was both public and staff at an org. I experienced the pain of not getting paid by the org. I actually got stranded on the streets of a major city, sleeping in a $1 a night flophouse at one point, and completely homeless at another. At one point I was homeless, and stowed away in a building at night, where I slept on a table top with some books as a pillow and no blanket. Despite the harrowing financial ordeal, I did complete a number of courses, became an auditor, and did the lower levels up to what was then called Dianetics clear and possibly a bit beyond. I experienced the various stats pushes; for example, I spent one night late into the early AM on the streets of a major city with a group trying to meet an org quota to get a certain number of people into the org and “on lines.”

    I saw how Scientology, Inc. got more and more demanding, less empathetic and rational over the years. More exclusive, and more locked off from society. I saw how auditing (counseling) materials were held over people’s heads in ethics and stated or unstated threats when someone did not want to do what the org or mission demanded — pay for more auditing, buy more books, contribute more, etc.

    Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that many independents have. The intimidation, control, threats, and blackmail of CoS Inc. are BS, and will serve to destroy what is good and workable in the body of work known as Dianetics and Scientology. So I decided to be true to myself. There are parts of both subjects I agree with, and parts I do not, and parts where I do not have the experience to judge for myself. For example, it is clear to me that Ron went off on a career (as he might have put it) in embellishing some of his background. In contrast, I used some meter-less auditing recently to relieve a relative of tremendous emotional stress from what, in the framework of Scientology, I would have described as blowing charge off a past life engram (moment of pain and unconsciousness) and secondary (incident of loss or threat of loss) that was in this framework getting keyed in (activated or restimulated) by a present time lock (a moment in present time that restimulated the past engram or secondary).

    Is this the right framework that explains the tremendous relief or grief charge the relative blew off (discharged through crying and cognitions or insights) or is there another explanation — like some sort of cathartic effect operating on the mind? Not sure how it can be proved, but as a scientifically minded person (not a scientism-minded person) I think all avenues need to be explored skeptically — by which I mean with integrity and a mind fully open to all possible explanations (in the true sense of skepticism, not the vernacular sense of general negativity toward a proposition).

    I decided that I refuse to have my reality determined by others out of threat or fear. Hence my positive affirmation of Freedom Of Thought Forever.

    And this is not an other determined decision. It is fully self-determined, and it is grounded to a degree in pan-determinism as I remain fully open to considering all facts, all intuitive and rational knowing, and so forth.

    So, thanks for asking, and I hope that tells you a little about me, and my FOTF2012 “moniker.” I love this blog by the way — it is actually the one thing blog I check every day online. Many kudos to all the people who post and/or read, their courage, and their work to stamp out what is bad and nurture what is good.

  118. Aww, McTinyFists had his own instrument petting zoo at his disposal. How sweeeet… [herk]

  119. I understand your point of offense, T.O., but when you say “when you make a slur about someone’s size, you only make yourself look small” – you are using the same metaphor to chide the user of the diminutive metaphor.


  120. Science lover DID thoughtfully suggest that uninterested readers either forgive or ignore his post if they found it irrelevant. Since you clearly cannot forgive his harmless request, why not simply ignore it? You were already given a humble, gracious invitation to a graceful exit. What is your point in generating obstinant hostility?


  121. Now THAT was a genuinly intelligent answer! Thank you, grasshopper for using communication rather than a ser fac to respond to a genuine question.


  122. Li'll bit of stuff

    My goodness Freedom,
    I asked—you answered—and how! What a path you’ve
    followed, and how amazing to see where you “are”
    today. Wonderful to see you shining through with your
    intention and ability to make the tech work for you in
    bringing your help to those in need.

    Dare I now ask of that future declaration! Possible?

    Great posts from you, BTW, always well considered.

  123. It’s more like “feel” rather than see. Yes, probably. I do know that I consistently go exterior when riding a motor cycle, and I feel the overpasses when I go under them. It was disconcerting at first.

    I could probably sense a person’s presence more than an object’s presence, since they are alive and objects are not. You may have heard that some people can “feel” people looking at them – movies and westerns are full of it (he could “feel” he was being watched). Yes, I can feel that usually, too. It would be interesting to know what the scientific explanation for that is.

    Also, telepathy. It is real, You should read Mark Twain’s writings on “Mental Telegraphy.” It was easier to prove it back then,when there were no radios or pan-Atlantic telegraphs. I have experienced telepathy – but again, it is not like a telephone call or IM.

    Ingo Swann did some interesting studies back in the day. He was into trying to prove it.

  124. Thanks! Well, I see no need to ser-fac on it. I totally understand the scientific method and understand the need to prove things. The problem is that there are things that are true that cannot be proven, or easily proven, and yet still exist – and if you close your mind to those things, your life is significantly poorer, since Mankind does not fully know very much.


  125. You just made my point. Thanks!

  126. Well, then, try NOT to be three feet back of your head.

  127. SL, a LOT of people, and I mean A LOT, go exterior on the simplest of all Scientology training drills, simple TR-0 Confronting Preclear. You just sit there in front of another person and basically look at them for awhile. Things will start happening. At some point, bingo! Try it if you are truly interested in experiencing exterior. It won’t cost you a dime. If that fails, then have someone run Opening Procedure by Duplication on you. That is a guaranteed exteriorizer. In fact that is the end phenomenon of the process.

  128. FOTF, I like the earlier translation of that, from the Gospel of Thomas –

    “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”

  129. Like your “sudden” post, Gern! You and The Oracle would be a formidable “riot of two”!

  130. “Deepak Chopra described it well when he said that we are not in the physical universe, the physical universe is in us. A little closer to home – when exterior, you are not out of the body, the body is in you, and you are bigger than the body.”

    LRH said it thus – that the true relationship between a thetan and the body is that the body is like a splinter stuck in your thumb.

    Back in the day, LRH had some great Group Processing having to do with creating space and changing the relative size of yourself and your space vis-a-vis the MEST universe.

  131. Nancy, maybe I misread his post then. And, maybe I really would like to know why he wanted “proof”?

    My experience is that some things, there’s no point in trying to “know before you go”.

    In any case, I’m glad you’re here to stick up for people I get unfairly cranky with!

  132. Perhaps next year there will be a couple of scary TC and DM masks.

  133. science lover

    Thank you Dan, will definitely try this.

    P.S. I have met you before! 🙂

  134. So is Jess Feshbach alive? Dead? Sick? Turn in tomorrow for As DM’s world spins.

    When did Jessica Feshbach David pass away?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s