Elephant In The Room

If folks want to know why there was so much noise in the independent field about my scary, heretical views all the sudden recently, it would behoove you to do as Ron advises in auditing technology and look a little bit earlier.

‘Elephant in the room:  An English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss.’- Wikipedia

The book What Is Wrong With Scientology? Healing Through Understanding  marched a veritable herd of elephants into the independent Scientology house.  I am going to identify one of those elephants today.

That is Chapter Thirteen Reversal.  A copy of the entire chapter is appended below for easy reference, refreshing of recollections, or for the convenience of those who have not read the book.  In that chapter I spelled out where and how a critical reversal is entered into the Scientology line up that enables it to be converted from a technology to free the mind and spirit to one that incarcerates beings into a cult mindset.

In the near year since the publication of the book, not a single independent Scientologist practitioner has originated a single word to me about the rather far-reaching implications of what is covered in this chapter.  Some have disconnected from me, some have assigned me lower ethics conditions – including ‘Treason’ for having stated facts that allegedly conflict with L. Ron Hubbard opinions.  To me, such actions speak to the truth of what is contained in the chapter below.  The reversal is apparently effective inside and outside the corporate church.  I am more convinced than ever that the way out is not through compliance, conformity, zealotry, and self-induced blindness.  Such self-imposed ignorance will relegate ‘Independent Scientology’ to the role it has played for thirty years, a mere parasite appended to the church of Scientology.  It will continue to walk lock step (with a shallow, self-serving protested distinction between it and the corporation) toward the demise of the subject when the corporate disaffecteds it sustains itself on run dry.  No integration, so no appeal to new students.  No evolution, so continued inevitable conflicts over who is ‘more standard’ in a subject that lends itself to infinite arguments on that score.  No transcendence, and so no ultimate moving on up a little higher.  Dianetics and Scientology would never have been developed at all had L. Ron Hubbard been such a conformist.



Miscavige’s elevation of L. Ron Hubbard to God-like status, and himself to demigod status, has provided Miscavige with carte-blanche to reverse the entire vector of Scientology’s aims and activities.

He began by perpetrating a fraud upon the highest-level Scientologists, Clears and OTs, with his promise of upper OT Levels allegedly in his possession.  While the seed was planted at the January 1986 funeral event, it has been a cleverly-played mind game on Scientologists ever since.  Miscavige has devoted most of his attention to keeping these highest-level Scientologists on the farm for a reason.  He knows that they are the opinion leaders among the general membership.  With the opinion leaders doing his bidding, he is able to keep the majority of his followers in the dark.  At this he has done a masterful job.  But to ascribe any great virtue or power to him for having done so would be a mistake.  Without L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige would be little more than a clever, overly-aggressive con man.  To pretend that Miscavige perfected his consolidation of power without the help of Hubbard’s own decisions and policy would be naïve and untrue.  In fact, to so pretend would require quite an invalidation of Hubbard’s abilities, and the power of the technology he discovered.

Without the backing of Hubbard-authored Scientology policy, David Miscavige could never have created the Black Dianetics monopoly Hubbard had warned against many years before.  How could such a contradiction be possible?  That is a complicated story. For purposes of our discussion here, I will provide a brief summation of what will be more fully treated in a later volume.

In short, human beings are full of contradictions, and L. Ron Hubbard was not immune from that imperfection.  For better or for worse, during the ’60s, when Hubbard and Scientology were continually facing attacks intended to bring about their demise, Hubbard issued quite a bit of policy in response which changed the character of the movement.  This “wartime” left an indelible imprint on Scientology.  It was a dark ages of sorts for the movement.  It was a time when the group, as a matter of survival, needed to circle the wagons and know who was with it and who was against it.  This was the era when security checks became routine.  This was the period when ‘disconnection’ from suppressive persons was dictated and enforced by the organizations.  This was when policy called for the overt and covert destruction of alleged forces of evil.  This was the period when Hubbard created a monster to achieve that end – an ogre that would later play an important role in his own demise.  That was the Guardian’s Office – a legal and public relations organization with its own intelligence network.

The Guardian’s Office’s intelligence system was once described by a government official in the know as rivaling that of Israel’s state intelligence service (the storied Mossad).  Hubbard wrote volumes of material for the Guardian’s Office on how to smash and obliterate the “enemy.”  David Miscavige seized on this material during the early ’80s, when the collective crimes of a decade and a half of unfettered Guardian’s Office operations had come back to haunt Hubbard. Miscavige would rise, live and die by that wartime policy.

Miscavige became sort of a reactive mind of the Scientology machine.  Just as the reactive mind drives all of the past into the present to haunt and torture the individual, Miscavige drove all of Hubbard’s “war” era policy to the present, to haunt and torture Scientologists – and Scientology’s detractors – from the ’80s forward.

The way in which Miscavige corralled Clears and OTs, however, begins with a seemingly benign policy.  That is a Hubbard policy letter of 1967, entitled An Open Letter to All Clears. It is the first thing a newly-arrived Clear is required to read.

Hubbard represented consistently and repeatedly, from 1950 to the mid-’60s, that the quest for Clear is the pursuit of personal freedom and personal confidence, to the point of self-trust and being worthy of trust by one’s peers.  In the face of that continual statement of purpose and goal, the Open Letter begins hedging on those representations.  It begins indoctrinating the Clear into the idea that whatever sacrifices the individual might have made to achieve the state of Clear, the ledger of responsibility is not balanced.  The Clear has obligations to Hubbard and Scientology, and is expected to comply with group directives in order to pay off the debt, particularly if one should wish to rise to greater heights than Clear.  The Clear is told, in Open Letter:

An ethical code already exists for OTs so at the state of Clear one should not assume that one has a license to do just whatever one will…

…So, the policies of Scientology which have enabled you to reach the state of Clear still apply to all Clears. In fact, they apply more because you have the reality of their value and the necessity of seeing that they are followed…

…As a result, bigger responsibilities will be given and expected of you so you must be prepared to responsibly educate yourself where necessary so that you can do whatever is assigned to you in a proper manner, in keeping with the main goals and aims of Scientology.…

…It is a crime to invalidate the state of Clear – see to it that you don’t do this in your conduct as a Clear, particularly as regards yourself.…

…You have now become more than ever a part of a team. Obsessive individualism and a failure to organize were responsible for our getting into the state we got into.…

…As soon as you have gone the rest of the way this will become abundantly plain.…

…I expect and need your help to carry out the broad mission of decontaminating this area of the universe.…

And so, the promise of a Golden Age of reason among free-thinking, un-policed Clears was replaced with the news that the organizations would be enforcing your duty to follow an “ethical code” and the “policies of Scientology.”  It announces that you will comply with “whatever is assigned to you” by the organization.  Should any Clear bristle at this news, it is quickly pointed out that he is simply dramatizing the “obsessive individualism” that was “responsible for our getting into the state we got into.”  For my part, the most empowering cognition I came to in my own travels along the Bridge was that I no longer had to agree with anyone.  I no longer felt compelled to go along with group-think.  This was the key to breaking the controlling, conforming conditioning that society tends to coerce us into accepting, including all the group thought patterns that justify greed, cheating, conflict and war.  Upon indoctrination to An Open Letter to All Clears, I had to begin rationalizing, and thus invalidating, that new-found ability to chart my own course in life.

Thus, with Open Letter, and the volumes of policy it mandates now must be followed even more vigilantly, the vector became reversed.  The door was opened to the evolution of an obsessive group devotion that graduated into the Big Brother corporation which went on to ruin the lives of thousands, and to lose whatever magic Dianetics and Scientology were capable of producing in the first place.  It was bolstered by encyclopedic volumes of Scientology organizational policy.  Most of that policy is very heady and workable material.  It cannot be denied, however, that it is liberally spiked with a number of policies grooving in the idea that the group, the Scientology organization, is all important, and that its hierarchical structure must be respected and complied to, irrespective of who runs it.

Here is where the perversion we covered in Chapter 8, Ethics, receives its most potent authority.  The over-weighted third dynamic (group) would forever after skew the contemplation of the ‘greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’ formula.

To gainsay this reality would be an exercise in denialism.  For example, any Scientologist reading this book is automatically guilty of a variety of Scientology crimes and high crimes, by the mere act of reading.  Per long-standing and currently-extant Hubbard Scientology policy, anyone who has read this far ought to be declared a suppressive person (a sociopath that both Hubbard and mental health authorities agree should be quarantined from society, without civil or constitutional rights).  This is how Scientology organizational policy protects and perpetuates the vicious cult Miscavige has created.

Exacerbating matters is the fact that the first thing a Scientology Inc. Clear will encounter upon reaching that state is unrelenting pressure to get onto the Operating Thetan, or OT, levels.  If a Clear wants to get on with life, exercise his new-found abilities and awareness so as to “practice to increase general reality” (as it was earlier noted that Hubbard had recommended) and resists compliance, Scientology Inc. resorts to scare tactics.  An Open Letter to All Clears is the first weapon in the organization’s arsenal on that score.  That is then compounded with the ultimate weapon, Hubbard’s pronouncement that a Clear is at grave risk as a being if he or she does not get through the OT Levels as soon as possible.  Ironically, that warning perhaps serves as the greatest invalidation of the state of Clear, which the Open Letter policy announces shall be considered a crime in itself.

As shall be made clear in the next chapter on the OT Levels, I am a huge proponent of the idea that the OT Levels are indeed capable of taking people to spiritual heights they never imagined possible.  However, to ignore the shift of focus and the reversal-of-motivation tactic employed – even by Hubbard himself – would be to check my logic and personal integrity at the door.  Just why Hubbard deviated from a 15-year devotion to creating a path that would only work where the practitioner’s motivations were solely the pursuit of truth toward the empowerment of each individual addressed, into scare tactics aimed at having each individual surrender his or her self-determinism to the will of the group, is a complex matter.  Warranted or not, much of what Hubbard and Scientology were facing in terms of opposition by vested interests by the mid-’60s wove its way into Hubbard’s outlook, his thinking, and his overriding, strong intention that Scientology survive and be made available to humanity.

At bottom, it was Hubbard’s reaction to what I consider ill-motivated, unethical, and vicious efforts by certain vested interests to keep him from achieving what he aimed for.  Whether the response was an over-reaction or was necessary at that time is a question requiring a more in-depth history.  For our purposes here – outlining what is wrong with Scientology – it is only necessary to highlight the contradictions that are obvious.  Recognition of those contradictions makes patent the simple fact that to take every word Hubbard wrote literally, and treat it as commandment, puts one on a slippery, untenable slope.  To do so would be just as irrational as criticizing and rejecting all of Hubbard’s work and discoveries just because it is recognized he was not infallible.  Exercising either extreme would be to employ the type of associative-reactive thought patterns his discoveries help people to overcome.

The problem with Hubbard’s reaction to the attacks, and the ultimate product of that reaction, is that it puts an individual or group right back into that which they had sought to transcend through Scientology in the first place.  Technically, it is a violation of one of his own fundamental maxims, “that which you resist, you become.”  It is perhaps best explained in Hubbard’s own words, in the very lecture series, the 1958 Clearing Congress, where he finally settled on the parameters and qualities of Clear:

We get this sort of a situation where everybody’s idea of everybody else becomes himself. Well, let’s look at that. Here’s Mr. A. Mr. A is certain that everybody around him is very evil and that they are “gonna get him” one way or the other. Now, Mr. A. has no choice – if he is also saddled with super-agreements, obsessive agreement, making equality a necessity – but to be this way himself.

Now, we ask this question: Does this evil character actually exist? And that’s one of the first things we have to ask in clearing. Does this evil character exist?

It seems like we have a synthetic personality in existence which isn’t really anybody, but is simply everybody’s idea of how bad the other fellow is. This is pretty complicated, see. See, he’s got the idea that this other fellow is so bad that he cannot help but criticize him violently. But because he is equal to this fellow over here, then, of course, he himself has to assume these characteristics of superlative evil. You see that? We get generals, admirals, politicians, all sorts of people, who have an idea that the enemy is so bad, or that the fellow man is so bad, or something else is so bad, they can’t possibly live with it, and have therefore got to cut it to pieces. It’s a very tricky thing. This has a vast bearing on clearing.

They’ve got to cut this evil being to pieces. Yes, but at the same time, they have an equality complex. By communicating with him, they therefore go into agreement with his evil characteristics, and the only thing they have left is an evil, synthetic personality which they themselves have to wear to be like everybody else and to be normal. This is one of the simplest and easiest tricks that is played in a culture.

So, what are you trying to do when you’re clearing people? You’ve got to find the fellow himself and you also, as you go up the line – not an attribute of Clear, but an attribute of OT – have to give him a certainty on the other fellow.

Therein Hubbard echoed the ancient book of wisdom he once noted that much of Scientology had grown out of, Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu:

There is no greater misfortune than underestimating your enemy. Underestimating your enemy means thinking that he is evil. Thus you destroy your three treasures (simplicity, patience, compassion) and become an enemy yourself.

In the same 1958 lecture, Hubbard continued by warning against the temptation to create policing agencies:

…Well, all you’d have to do is have a police force and a society would start caving in. Why? The police force constitutes a constant reminder that men are evil, which is a constant reminder that we must agree with these evil men. Do you see how this would work? Neat little trick.

Now, that doesn’t say that we are so starry-eyed as to believe that at this time we could dispense with all police. Or could we?

Now, you have to make up your mind which way you’re going to go with a society, if you’re thinking about a new society of one kind or another. And if you say, “Well, this society would be totally unregulated,” then we would be proposing an anarchy. And all the anarchists tell us that the only way a society would work as a total freedom without government would be if everyone in it were perfect.

Well, I don’t know whether we propose – when we talk about a cleared society – whether we propose or not to have an anarchy. That’s beside the point. That’s up to the people who get cleared. But I don’t think you’d wind up with an anarchy. I think you’d wind up with a much finer level of agreement and cooperation, because I think you’d then be able to realize the rest of the dynamics.

Again, Hubbard was in perfect alignment with the Tao:

Throw away morality and justice, and people will do the right thing… The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous the people will be… I let go of the law, and people become honest.

However, with the advent of tomes of policy, creating layers of hierarchical restriction upon the group and aggressive policing of its individuals’ morals, the promise of the sanity and happiness of a cleared group and society was replaced.  The new doctrinal paradigm held, in essence, that the only way to achieve a ‘cleared society’ was through a tightly-controlled, disciplined group whose survival trumped all other possible considerations.  While volumes were written on how to run a Scientology organization in keeping with the goals of Clearing and the promise of OT, no matter how one dressed it up, Scientology policy created and required a force that one would have to be in utter denial to characterize as anything other than the police enforcing prohibitions, so as to protect good people from other people presumably dedicated to evil.

I am quite aware that these views will be condemned by many Scientologists, corporate and independent alike.  But I believe that if one dispassionately examines the facts of how Clears and OTs have come to be treated, how they have docilely accepted such treatment, and how they have come to behave within Scientology Inc., to ignore or deny Hubbard’s empowerment of such treatment and behavior is tantamount to condemning Scientologists to repeating a history they are systemically required to remain ignorant of and yet perpetuate.

I am not contending that Hubbard was wrong to react to opposition in the way he did.  Nor am I contending that he should not have memorialized his reaction under the heading of ‘policy.’  I do contend that to take Hubbard’s policy literally, out of the time and the context in which it was born, is to become an extremist.  With extremism comes the loss of the potential benefits that would otherwise accrue from application of the discoveries Hubbard made.  In my opinion, nowhere is literalism and extremism more destructive than at the highest reaches of the Bridge, the OT levels.

309 responses to “Elephant In The Room

  1. Marty,

    Some may have disconnected from you or consider you evil. For me it is different. You have demonstrated to me that I am not the only one having concerns about the absoluteness of Scientology. I am not the the only one that things the science can be extended, or in Your word ascended.

    Suddenly, here is a smart guy who is also a trained auditor, and he agrees with me that it is okay to think for yourself.

    I am very thankful to you for the book and for being there.

  2. Very good post, Marty. I really like where you’re going. It cracks me up about others who believe they have the right or authority to “assign” others ethics conditions. The word ethics has been perverted from the original definition in Science of Survival, and not applied as such. From my understanding, ethics isn’t about what one applies to another. It’s one one does with oneself. It’s a personal thing. However, “ethics” have been turned into an other-determined justice method by many Scientologists. How this happened, you can probably do better than I in explaining the “why?” it happened. What right does one have to “assign” another an ethics condition? What’s with this other determined “assigning”? Aren’t the ethics conditions supposed to be viewed and applied to self?

  3. Wonderful summation of how stalled we are if don’t shed the restrictions which have come to obscure the very basic purposes of the original Scientology movement, making these purposes almost unrecognizable in many sectors of the group – even alarmingly, outside the church.

    It will be interesting to see how many brave souls step up and dare to take leadership by example, and start openly defending others’ fundamental Church Creed rights to write upon and speak opinions on the tech, LRH, and failed policies.

    Because that’s what we need to see more of.

    Thank you, Marty, for saying (yes, repeating) what needed to be said.

  4. As I got toward the end of this post I have to say that LRH created a future engram with his reactions to outside influences (attacks), he inserted a held down 7, and never removed it. It reminds me of automaticities that are set up and forgotten. Sure, LRH’s reactions were needed at the time, but were left in place for seemingly eternity, as interpreted by RCS.

  5. Brilliant then, and also well-timed now.

    Same with Rinder’s post on his Blog today.

    You guys rock the house.

  6. Amen brother

  7. Marty, I consider myself a fundamentalist/Independent. But there is nothing you say here that I violently disagree with. I have seen what you have said in action.
    You said ” In short, human beings are full of contradictions, and L. Ron Hubbard was not immune from that imperfection. For better or for worse, during the ’60s, when Hubbard and Scientology were continually facing attacks intended to bring about their demise, Hubbard issued quite a bit of policy in response which changed the character of the movement.”
    I hope in your next book you will take up those “attacks intended to bring about their demise”. This is a very important point.
    It is my belief that having a full knowledge of these attacks, and remember, that alot of those attacks will not have been documented or admitted to, which resulted in LRHs circling of the wagons, that a full understanding of those controversial policies will be had. ARC>KRC. As Ron said, he was just a man but it takes a hell of a man to do what he did and pull it off!
    The fact that mortal man, in the form of some Scientology executives have taken those policies with glee, and run with them, doesnt change their origional intent! Which in my view, was the protection of a new and vital philosophy!

  8. Marty, respect for your writing skills and also the logic in the above essay.
    I read your book last summer and it was a breathe of fresh air.

    I noted that if we really want Scientology to work in the future, we need to exteriorize the time-track of the Scientology-Corporation.

    I want to explain a little further.
    You wrote:
    Warranted or not, much of what Hubbard and Scientology were facing in terms of opposition by vested interests by the mid-’60s wove its way into Hubbard’s outlook, his thinking, and his overriding, strong intention that Scientology survive and be made available to humanity.
    This is true. It looks like “Theta crushed too hard into MEST becomes enturbulated…” (SOS).

    Scientology, the New News, crushed too hard into the status quo of the 50’s and 60’s. At this time LRH wasn’t even ready (or satisfied) with the developement as he knew that there is much more he needs to do in order to fully develop the technology and make it possible for people to move up the bridge, train people and make it possible for others to move people up. He looked for new locations (SH, then Sea Project as Rhodesia didn’t work, then FLB) in order to have the space and environment sufficient for this purpose.

    We don’t even need to know whom he was fighting or why he was “hiding” because when we exteriorize from the track we can fully recognize what Scientology is capable of (the light and the “dark” side of it’s applications).

    Today we have a absolutley different scene in the world.
    It is now really possible to have a grass-roots movement.
    There are so many more people interested in spirituality today than in the 50’s (that’s why Dianetics started as a “mechanistic” study).
    We don’t need to fight the FDA in order to use the E-Meters.
    We don’t need to fight anyone in order to be allowed to excersize our religious practices.
    And of course, the tech is available.

    That’s why I say we need to exteriorize the time-track of the corporation. Let’s leave the Mest and EnMest (and unworkable Solutions) of the Church behind us.

    Forwarding the idea that the Subject of Scientology is distinct from the Church of Scientology is an important task.
    The church is going to die (it is not using Scientology and won’t recover).

  9. Good for you, Marty. You’re almost there.

  10. Marty, your statement below about much of the Independent movement outside the church really resonated;
    “It will continue to walk lock step (with a shallow, self-serving protested distinction between it and the corporation) toward the demise of the subject when the corporate disaffecteds it sustains itself on run dry.”
    No bodies in the shop means no future. There will be no Independents if the pool they come from is the church. Its going to take some serious repackaging and integration to salvage the subject. Your doing a great job. I hate to sound dramatic, but your direction is most likley the only chance the subject has to gain acceptance and positive review, and through that, become a resource again on a broad scale. Its a good thing you like to take responsibility.

  11. “If folks want to know why there was so much noise in the independent field about my scary, heretical views all the sudden recently…”

    Thanks for the view Marty. I see disagreements where purposes diverge. Not everyone who gets involved in Scientology really has a purpose to know how to know, to evolve, to transcend, in integrate the knowledge from there with other knowledge, or to even own the knowledge in a way that supports their own purpose lines.

    Beyond who has the most rational thinking, who can change (that is an ability on a grade and unflat on a lot of people), who can compare data, align or misalign the information, file knowledge into the info bin or shove it into a fixed idea bin, …all of this floats on purpose.

    Some people have the purpose to survive through group agreements. Not reason. It is not really that people can’t do the math, run data through qual (as Hubbard instructed to do, and did himself changing policy and tech continuously to upgrade. You go through the vols and see words like “revised, modified, cancelled, cancels etc) It is that they prefer to survive as a GROUP. Not as an individual. And this is a PURPOSE. “There is safety in numbers” kind of cautionary livingness. Therefore they can not change any of the data unless the entire culture does, and remain on purpose.

    Hubbard wrote a policy letter 7 July 59 Staff Auditing Requirement (Modifying Earlier Directives) A quote: “I have now gone a little further and have found a process which knocks out the contra survival postulates. The pity of it is, a person who now wants to live is being victimized by time he didn’t want to. So my actions are not accusative. They are, I hope, classifiable as “being effective”. It eradicates the urge to be killed and proofs one against people that have that urge.

    The process is: “From where could you communicate to a victim.” The process number is Process S2.

    As by earlier cable this is to be run on EVERY member of staff until flat.”

    “In the future, admit no person to staff until this process is flat”


    Based on this above, there are even purposes you might not think of off the top of your head for why people are involved in Scientology. I can guess. Those that have never done anything wrong to anybody anywhere and they are 100% holy and have only met injustices and losses through the evil of others and that is the true reason for any evidence of success along the dynamics.

    The line that you have hidden agendas, when you clearly have all of your cards on the table, is telling of the accusers.

    The warnings that those that read your blog will be “led astray”, is telling of the lack of confidence people have in the tech. Why are people permitted to attest to “return of self determinism” and then warned of others that may over take their determinism?

    Your purpose line, knowing how to know, truth seeking, being there and communicating, is the the truest spirit of what Scientology promises.

    To tell a grade zero to shut up or remain muzzled is anti Scientology.

    The world revolves around purpose. I wouldn’t be concerned if others are moving on purposes other than truth, knowing, evolution.

    It would be great if you could publish the blog by year in volumes as a collaborative work of a group of thinking people. There are things you said last year and the years before that people will be better able to think with ten or twenty years from now.

    That said, your other comments are spot on. The “Open Letter to all Clears” is a bill handed to you after clear. It tells you what you now owe.

    But I think it may have been written to appeal to the good senses of the “Clear” that would run about and use their “status” to dominate others.

    Obviously Hubbard knew then that a clear could come out like a loose cannon.

    There are people that can and will realign their purposes according the reason and common sense. And there are people that just can not do that.

    I think he knew all of this in the end. And I think he took this as his failure on some level. There are people that will mock you up to be a failure no matter how much you appeal to their wisdom and good sense and how much you help or contribute to them.

    You put two people in two cars. One of them will use the car to get to where they need to go. The other will go right out on the freeway and cause a head on collision and make sure more than one do not survive.

    It’s nobodies fault. It’s just different purposes.

    Hubbard tried to write off the ones heading south, but his compassion kept bringing him back to the challenge of “how to crack the case”.

    He ended up assisting things which inhibit survival.

    And you see how that worked for him.

    Don’t let them suck you in like that. As politically incorrect as it is today, it is true that Scientology really helps the able to become more able. As many people are not able to understand it. So how are they going to understand you?

    How able is someone? Look at their life and what they have been able to accomplish. Let the judgments, accusations, and rhetoric and pledges of holiness fall by the way side. We know well enough there are people that can talk the talk. That’s what David does at every event.

    T.O. to go.

  12. “Most people think discipline means rules, like “Do this. Don’t do that.” but real discipline is noticing and accepting your own faults and mistakes without judgement, then having the dignity, or the will to change… If you come to understand your own problems and gain some freedom from them, naturally compassion towards others will arise.” -Phakchok Rinpoche

    Once again Marty – not only do you address the elephant in the room – you willing and adroitly give those with eyes to see and ears to hear a clear way forward.


  13. Joe Pendleton

    Marty, the chapter on Reversal was stunning and the truth is that you treaded VERY gently and non accusatory into this area. I was involved in Scientology for almost 40 years and had a long career in every area of the tech. Had Scientology just consisted of auditing technique and procedures (which I consider brilliant) with added ethics to handle PTSness and real counter intention in the group (and a public division like Martin Samuels had at Davis) I think you might have a couple of million or many more active Scientologists by now. But the money obsessed authoritarian church that LRH got going that ultimately attempts to control every aspect (and thinking) of one’s life (with harsh punishments that result in what is in effect heavy fines and loss of close ARC ties) has in fact largely destroyed and corrupted the activity. Very few LRH datums actually MEAN anything to Scientologists (I am officially an “SP” for simply having a point of view,for being there and communicating) and the great majority of Scientologists I know don’t seem to care, but act in lockstep compliance to whatever “command” tells them to do or even think. This has been building since the 1960s. This is the ultimate product of what you simply STARTED to explore in your Reversal chapter. Of course, there is much more to it – how LRH’s demons eventually got the better of him, why he decided to put all his comm lines in Miscavige’s care, why ultimately LRH “threw under the bus” three wives, his two closest auditors (Roos and Mayo) and many other loyal followers and had such terrible relationships with most or all of his seven children, etc etc etc None of what I mention above is to condemn him or invalidate Ron’s great work about how beings react in this univverse. But what Scientologists simply REFUSE to consider are the most important factors that have resulted in the CoS’s current condition (and the extremely sad case states of almost all on line Scientologists). Yes, a very true Scientology axiom is “The practice of not isness reduces understanding.”

  14. P.S. Mike Rinder very aptly reminds of those purposed in southward motion, in the policy where Hubbard so accurately defines them, in his blog post today:

    ” LRH gives an answer in PAB 13 ON HUMAN BEHAVIOR, written in 1953.

    It is a briefing to auditors on the importance of knowing the most aberrated and most aberrative types of personality.

    In this PAB, LRH says:
    What we will call the aberrative personality does the following things:
    1. Everything bad that happened to the preclear was (a) ridiculous, (b) unimportant, (c) deserved.
    2. Everything the preclear and others did to the aberrative person was (a) very important, (b) very bad, (c) irremediable.
    3. Those things which the preclear could do (a) were without real value, (b) were done better by the aberrative personality or by others.
    4. Sexual restraint or perversion.
    5. Inhibition of eating….”

    See his blog for the rest.

    THESE are the real elephants in the room.

    T.O. to go


  15. Marty, it was Hubbard who initiated the fraud on Scientologists regarding the upper OT levels. I’m sure you’re familiar with the references.

    Problems with Hubbard’s teaching existed from the very beginning. They didn’t start in 1965, although that’s a handy date to use.

    The same excuse can still be used: that Hubbard was under attack by those that sought to destroy Scientology, only from 1950 onward.

    The point is that the subject became toxic long before 1965.

    Consider the other possibility: that Hubbard had a hidden agenda
    from the very beginning.

    All this noted, glad to see you are gradually transcending Scientology.

  16. Good Post Marty. The C of $ has long Past the Tipping Point, what comes next is the Flash Point. There are about 60,000 Corporate Scientologists
    in the World, when the Flash Point happens the Indie Field will get them,
    so heads up.

  17. martyrathbun09

    My next book will demonstrate rather conclusively that L. Ron Hubbard did not in fact perpetrate a fraud on that score.

  18. I enjoyed both of your books Marty.
    I think what may be confusing some people is; where is this all going?
    You have said that you don’t want to lead a new organization. You have said that you don’t want to fight dm.

    What is your plan?
    I mean specifically? I kow you want people to integrate and so forth. How are people supposed to do this? Other than doing thier best?

    All I see is that other Indies are doing some things. They all seem to have different ideas and are doing it to the best of their abilities and you seem to be somewhat critical of that.

    I don’t really see that you are doing anything much different than anyone else in the Indie field other than running this blog, which I think can be very entertaining and sometimes helpful. I really don’t know what you want other Indies to do to make you feel they are doing the best thing possible?

    I agree with you that assigning you lowers and such is a waste of time and kind of bizzarre.

    I also feel that if you want to get another person to see your viewpoint that you must maintain some ARC with them.

    Whoever assigned you “lowers” did the wrong thing and cut the comm line with you. I don’t know if you have done anything similar yourself, but I think trying to find things that maybe you and others agree on could be beneficial.

    In the cult we all marched in lock step (to a greater or lesser degree) so now I think there can be a tendency to do a lot of DISAGREEING. I think it is beneficial to differentiate the good from the bad but some efforts have to be made to maintain ARC and some degree of unity. My two cents.

  19. There are a few people out here laying out salt licks to capture the prey leaving the C of S, but Marty obviously isn’t one of them! Laughter! Not by a long, looooong country mile!

  20. Well written…definitely unraveling!

  21. And a homeless drunk

    “Without L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige would be little more than a clever, overly-aggressive con man.”

  22. I used to be owned by Scientology. Now I own Scientology. I can use any part of it or not, as I desire. In spite of the gains I had from training and auditing, there was so much duty and obligation and resulting PTPs, that I felt defeated. I could never do enough to help Ron and I felt guilty all the time. Now I am free of that and it is a great burden lifted from my life. Marty, you were a very big part in helping me on this discovery when I read the Truth Rundown articles in my blackest hour. So, thanks and keep up the good work.

  23. “There are things you said last year and the years before that people will be better able to think with ten or twenty years from now.”

    My sentiments exactly.

  24. Marty isn’t exactly a “Bible Thumper”.

  25. Urban Dictionary:
    1. bible thumper

    One who uses the Bible to attack/defame others’ characters instead of as a guide to proper living. These people tend to be depressingly ignorant of anything else except the Bible and behavior as expected by the religious.

    2. bible thumper

    Originating from typically southern US fundamentalist Christian sects given to evangelizing in a very outgoing, rumbunctious way, often characterized by a religious bigot standing on a street corner, with or without foam around his mouth, shouting about how we should all turn to Christ, whilst vigourously thumping his soft covered bible for emphasis.
    Their actions usually do more harm than good to their cause and bring into disrepute and ridicule those more reticent Christians.

    “He’s a bible thumper, so don’t go near him. ”

    “He thinks everything in the bible should be taken literally; he’s a foolish bible thumper.”

    3. bible thumper

    The cause of many major wars, genocides, and crimes against humanity during the last 20 centuries.
    The Middle Ages and the European colonization of Africa and the Americas were the glory days of the Bible thumpers.

  26. Great reminder of some vital data, Marty.

    Since we are dealing with a significant number of people who have never had any prior dealings with the Co$, we are in a different postition than many who are only bringing in ex-churchies.

    In the Co$, if you won’t call yourself a “scientologist,” it is determined that there is something wrong with you and you need to be handled. You’re PTS, you have withholds etc. etc.

    In my opinion, it’s perfectly cool to use scientology tech for what you want to use it for and leave the rest…including the group. We have people who come for auditing and go to Mass on Sunday. They don’t tell their Christian friends that they are involved in scientology and I don’t insist they do so. If they DID it would create a PTS scene. Others choose to state, “yea, I’m doing some scientology stuff and it’s cool.”

    Bottom line…our group is not important. The people we serve and their well-being and their spiritual freedom is what’s important.

    They all get standard tech. What they don’t get is an enforced reality on what to do with it.


  27. As I read through the above, and in my not always humble opinion, agreed with as being truer than William Tells arrows, I recalled a couple of help references.
    Above there is a portion speaking of Hubbard creating an organisation that would survive to help people. I wonder if it was more intended to survive, than survive as a MEANS to help.
    It reminded me of a lecture on help. LRH talked about a man trying to help a tribe. He fought the tribes enemies, to help the tribe survive. But in the end he finally spiralled down, and actually acted out the following: “How do you help people? You kill them!”

    Once the realities and intentions behind why a fight is righteous fall away, the fight becomes an end in itself, win at ALL COSTS.

    Pathetic really.
    In need of help, on HELP, so HELP *IS* HELP.

  28. I should be further clearer, having policy to create an organisation that survives, but that let’s fall away the purpose of that survival hand-in-hand with survival, can create an organisation JUST surviving.
    It can create an organisation surviving INSPITE of people.
    And so people give their lives (life savings families et al) to make the organisation survive, and in return nothing. Well that actually results in the organisation slaying the people. Doesn’t it???
    An organisation built and protected for helping people… Turns into an unstoppable machine hell-bent on the GENOCIDE of scientologists… Even the human race itself as it throttles any OTHER humanity or wisdom that compares in any way to it’s fields of interest – that being philosophy itself, and the very fabric of goodness and wholesomeness that keeps ones breast free of dagger – through crime or jealousy. And as such we can already count the dead.
    Such as your encounter with such jealousy Marty, in you tragic episode of vainly trying to prevent the woman in your care.

    It could have been so different.
    Insidiously with all the invalidation and evaluation, people are being convinced they are unable to think or help others. Convinced they have no worth, and so the mechanics of FAILED HELP ocuur – people become NUMB or PARALYSED on the subject, and circuits and valences take over – PERFECT for becoming part of a MACHINE.

    You are all very worthy and beautiful beings. You are needed and valuable. And we are all very lucky we have each other…
    All are unique, and necessary. Your genius must shine 😀

  29. Thanx for this Marty.
    1.Was LRH a genius? No question about it!
    2.Was LRH a philosopher? No question about it!
    3. Was LRH a god? No.
    4. Was LRH infallible? No.
    On page 123 of “What is Wrong With Scientology” you state that “Miscavige became sort of a reactive mind of the Scientology machine”….. Yes, in “Freud Speak”, DM has been the “ID” to everything that LRH has taught concerning the “ego” and enlightnment. I know! I know! even mentioning LRH in the same sentence with Freud makes me heretical to some.
    For the past 30 years DM has been a creature of LRH’s reactive mind (“ID”) and has been degrading the church with Black Scientology!!
    Marty….. after LRH’s passing, how did DM rise to the top!! Will your next book delve into that??

  30. Nicely stated.

    Along with the expression, “the elephant in the room” goes another: “Elvis has left the building,” meaning someone has already exited in some sense.

    Once one gathers his wits enough to acknowledge to himself and begin to talk to others about “the elephant in the room”, it becomes very difficult stop doing that and go back to not-isness. In fact to try to do so is very detrimental to the sanity and happiness of the individual.

    Elvis, Marty, and most all of us reading this blog have already left the building. It is too late to try to assign conditions and other such acts. Using force or threats is based in fear and cultish control methods.

    We’ve left that building.

  31. Hi all,

    Marty, thanks for the analysis and the reprint of your book’s chapter.

    It seems that there is more than decompressing needed when coming out of the corporate church suppressive entity (keeping in mind that groups take off with a life of their own once postulated into existence, hence openning the door to “group-engrams”).

    The above came to mind while reading this:

    “The reversal is apparently effective inside and outside the corporate church. I am more convinced than ever that the way out is not through compliance, conformity, zealotry, and self-induced blindness. Such self-imposed ignorance will relegate ‘Independent Scientology’ to the role it has played for thirty years, a mere parasite appended to the church of Scientology. It will continue to walk lock step (with a shallow, self-serving protested distinction between it and the corporation) toward the demise of the subject when the corporate disaffecteds it sustains itself on run dry.”

    … which reminded me of this little sentence:

    “… if only in opposite.”

    … from the PTS/SP Tech dealing with PTSness and robotism and which seems to indicate that most of the independent field is still PTS and remains a “robot” to the ¢of$ entity and which, I gather, is the point that Marty is making.

    PS: If one takes the above as a “wrong indication” and protests it, then, I would suggest to take an even closer look at that “protest.”

    PPS: BTW, anyone done the “Suppressed Person Rundown” and received a nice, friendly letter from PoB?

  32. You’re surely giving us a correct indication in this article. I’m glad to see that others have the same reservations about ‘An Open Letter to All Clears’ that I had. It seems to be addressed to the first Clears who were Saint Hill students and staff; but how would it be applied to the billions of public who we hoped would also reach the state of Clear? It was an early suggestion that the tech might no longer be for everyone, but just for a clique of buddies.

    By the end of the 80s at least one staff member at AOSH ANZO was telling arriving public “you don’t have some god-given right to scientology.”

    There may have been a first hint of the coming change in the lecture of 9 July 1963, The Free Being. LRH rightly points out that a being can only be as OT as he can take responsibility. But he concludes “We have to learn to take care of our own because we will have made that own with our own lily-white E-meters”.

    Own? Here the idea of responsibility for others, of not leaving them (as LRH says) stuck on the theta pole, may be getting confused with owning them or demanding their allegiance.

  33. Your humble servant

    Your comments are both arrogant and snide. What have you done with your life, B. Volta?

  34. Your humble servant


    Thank you for these thoughtful observations. I heartily agree with you about the following: Each has the right to his own thoughts, his own decisions, and his own observations; understanding Ron’s writings and lectures cannot be achieved if everything he said is taken literally and the time period and context are ignored; The Policy Letter, an Open Letter to All Clears casts things in the wrong light. Ron stated it better in 1958; Ron did great work and made many magnificent contributions. The dissemination of these things has not been helped by a police-like approach to organizations and dealing with public individuals. Overall, I don’t even see that that approach has helped in dealing with hostile governments and vested interests. It seems to me that the only reason the corporate Church seems to be at peace with the U.S. government is that it has agreed to go along with that government’s more suppressive purposes.

    I am dismayed that anyone would attack or condemn you while saying that they are Independent Scientologists. There is certainly room for differing personal opinions among people who are genuinely that in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

  35. Marty,
    What a great post, masterfully written. I truly feel your presence in Scientology was a long time coming.

    If I had to summarize my 30 years experience with Scientology, it would be something like trying to fuck a Black Widow spider; you know that what you get feels really good, but you also know that your head will be beaten off.

    Well, the process is working. Let’s keep moving up!

  36. martyrathbun09

    Actually, the government accepts Scientology because the war machine we assembled and operated caused too much grief and expense not to accept it.

  37. While I agree entirely with the phenomena that you describe, I don’t know that I would lay responsibility on to the LRH policies themselves, nor even the atmosphere that spawned them. I think I recall LRH (somewhere), saying that “any truly powerful mechanism can be used to produce either great good or great harm. The difference lies in the intention of the person wielding the instrument.” In other words, all the policies you mentioned, along with the situations that lead to their promulgation, might be fine- even helpful- as long as they were used with the intention of creating greater spiritual and intellectual freedom for all those affected by them. However, when those same policies are used in an effort to control (the opposite of allow), the exact opposite is created. Most anybody would agree that Demented Midget is a control freak extraordinaire!

  38. Remember, it was the technology of LRH that created Miscavige, Dave was merely a snot-nosed asthmatic when he encountered the technology of Hubbard. Hubbard had the opportunity to deal with Miscavige but never did so. If you look at it, Scientology has left Miscavige alone and estranged from even his own family. That is the EP of Scientology as Hubbard left it, being alone and estranged with no friends with people afraid of you.

  39. You do realize that “An Open Letter To All Clears” gets filed under “technology” to some people to be safeguarded?

  40. Marty

    Yes, one point you touched on, that I certainly have some concern about, is “independent auditors” relying on Scientology Inc. leftovers, or disaffected Scientologists, as their main focus.

    It borders on being parasitical on Scientology Inc. as the host. When the host dies, the host’s parasites will also die.

    It is certainly valid to help any who need or want help, but it is a dead-end route if Scientology is never exported to more people.

    The purpose of Scientology was, in the most part, to simply help our fellow men to become more able to live decent and fulfilling lives, in their own estimation. To keep the attention outward. It was never really to introvert and only help “our own”.

    It seemed to be the “grass roots” approach that Scientology took in the early days, that succeeded in the greatest success in using Scientology and Dianetics technologies to forward its stated purposes of helping people to become more able to live decent and more fulfilling lives.

    This was all done with almost no attention on the “organization of Scientology” at all. The main policies were to “help others and to train others who want to learn how to help others.” We were doing it because we cared for others.

    As time passed and “the organization” became more and more the focus, this grass roots expansion, and the missions, and groups, and individuals forwarding it, were systematically “strangled to death”, or otherwise simply destroyed.

    Force replaced caring. Demand replaced concern. Control replaced freedom. Self-determinism was replaced with “group-determinism”.

    We weren’t working for the preservation and advancement of the Third Dynamic. (which was totally re-defined to mean “Scientology” as the ONLY third Dynamic) We weren’t trying to preserve anything.

    We were trying to assist our fellow man to create a new and better future for themselves and others, with a technology that we could see was both needed and wanted by many.

    I do not care one iota how big Scientology gets… or how many “Scientologists” there are.

    All I wanted was to be more sane, more able, and more free personally, and to somehow “pay it forward” to others.

    I still do.

    Eric S

  41. Excellent Les,

    You and your group use the tools well. Thank you for caring, and doing something about it.

    Eric S

  42. I don’t see the problem with the Open Letter to Clears.
    It is a call to common sense.
    “…You have now become more than ever a part of a team. Obsessive individualism and a failure to organize were responsible for our getting into the state we got into.…” is also true (look at what a poor excuse we have for government).
    LRH is offering the clear a new game to continue on with, (and perhaps not be distracted or sent off course). He is not leaving the clear with no game.
    Assuming that the goal is to help, why not try in the most efficient manner, which one can presume (at that time) is Scientology, and therefore continue with this game.
    Can this letter be used as a marketing piece? Sure.
    Can this letter be used and abused? Sure, what else in new?

    Ron’s fight with the vested interests, and alphabet soup agencies, history of, is more interesting. (A really interesting stat might be the numbers of plants from 1947 to PT.)
    I can see that emulating an enemy’s tactics to fight him, can easily happen, and then result in becoming too much like him (classic trap – even if you are aware of it).
    Then there is the effects of 3rd party.
    Also, the particular tactics that were adopted, would point to which agencies were attacking.
    IMHO, I think that the CofS Inc problem starts here (maybe a sunset clause on certain policies / advices would have helped, but the basic problems remain today).

  43. This is such a good post, Les and bespeaks such a sane viewpoint. After all, while the subject defines a Scientologist as “someone who uses Scientology to help themselves and/or others, it is not required that the person define themselves in that way or in any particular way. I audited a guy who was a Mormon once and he asked if he could do Scientology and still be a Mormon. So, I showed him the policy where LRH describes Scientology as a “pan-denominational” religion which welcomes people of any and all faiths. I told him that Scienology could help him to be a better Mormon which it did. There is no real conflict except in the minds of people who imagine conflicts around themselves continuously. Thanks to you and Anita for being there and enhancing the lives of others. That is truly operating as an thetan.

  44. Marty:
    About the highest compliment I can extend to you about this article is that it is my personal belief that LRH himself would kindly acknowledge a number of your key points of observation.

    My personal view of the matter (as evidence by the positive growth in my personal life) is that LRH did what he could when he could, with what he had to work with in one lifetime to offer Mankind some help. He won; he lost; he laughed; he cried. But in the end, much of what he did was so profound it will touch the hearts and mend the wounds of souls for eons.

    No opinion as to his worth, pro or con, will alter that simple fact in any way. It is what it is and only the next 10,000 years of Man’s evolution will judge the validity of that story outright.

    Beyond that, every Scientologist, Corp., Independent, old, new, passionate or entirely disaffected will evolve or devolve based on their “personal responsibility.” One will willingly consider the difference between “true freedom” and, as you noted, “… literalism and extremism at the highest reaches of the Bridge…” or one will flinch from that task.

    You have served that vital necessity (objective) admirably in the chapter above.

    As for the “rewards” for your having done so I can only offer you these few poetic words and hope they ease your days.

    “The Great Teacher offers his lessons, with kindness and generosity. The Student feasts on them, nourished and satisfied by their plenty – OR BITES THE THE HAND THAT OFFERS. Thus, the Great Master has infinite space and fewer fingers.”

  45. Paul Durand

    Mary you say it right, and the same applies for all religious movements: “No integration, so no appeal to new students. No evolution, so continued inevitable conflicts over who is ‘more standard’ in a subject that lends itself to infinite arguments on that score. No transcendence, and so no ultimate moving on up a little higher.”

    Ive seen again and again new religious movements asphyxiate due to their lack of integration, shrink due to their lack of evolution, and stifle due to their lack of transcendence.

    I see across these movements a pervasive fear that more integration will lead to a loss of identity. A fear that more evolution will lead to a separation from core beliefs, and a fear that more transcendance will lead to a loss of the known and certain. Fear is anything but a vector for growth. TO find fulfillment, we need to heed to the call for freedom within.

    Sadly, when standing at crossroads in their evolution, many new religious movements choose control over trust and freedom. They too often choose the old default religious modus operandi that has not worked for many centuries: assign people specific courses in life that they ought to follow, and try to convince them that it is “for their own good”. Then, to make sure that these requirements get followed, the movements create policies, addendums, amendments, directives, control mechanisms, penalties for infractions and a lot more.

    Then some people emerge, who have a fundamental slant and who stand for literal implementations of these policies. Conversely, other people rise who advocate more liberal implementation. Then they battle for control. Before you now it, the focus within the organization has shifted from sharing a beautiful message to battling internal battles and controlling people.

    As a non Scientologist who spent 35 years in a new religious movement and studied new religious movements for 40 years, I understand when you write: “ the most empowering cognition I came to in my own travels along the Bridge was that I no longer had to agree with anyone. I no longer felt compelled to go along with group-think.” I could have written this about my own journey 5 years ago.
    I would add” And not only I did not have to agree with anyone, but also I did not have a disagree with anyone anymore. I was free to agree and to not put myself in situations where I would constantly be in disagreements.”

    In other words, I realized that I should not become trapped constantly disagreeing. Its not a good life.

    Instead, I decided that from now on I would spend my life exploring, and enjoying new spiritual heights, with maybe here and there some disagreements with my former movement, but not too many as disagreement requires to deal with toxicity, and ultimately toxicity is not a good for the health of the body mind and soul…
    I decided life is short, and I need to feel elation, satisfaction, joy, peace rather than always look back.
    And yes,, to use your words, integration, evolution and transcendance, are good thrusts to move forward into a zone where there is peace, harmony, inclusion, and where the dark veils of the pages of the past are turned!.
    Love to all

  46. Sorry to be clueless, but what do you mean by “almost there”?

  47. Really well stated.

  48. It’s worth quoting Ron again on Personal Integrity,

    “WHAT IS TRUE FOR YOU is what you have observed yourself and when you lose that you have lost everything. What is personal integrity? Personal integrity is knowing what you know– What you know is what you know–
    And to have the courage to know and say what you have observed. And that is integrity. And there is no other integrity.”

    “Nothing in Dianetics and Scientology is true for you, Unless you have observed it, And it is true according to your observation. That is all.”

  49. Oh my… couldn’t you have stopped at “arrogant and snide” rather than moved on to “what are your crimes…”?

    One does NOT have to assume that disagreement equals crimes against that with/whom which one disagrees.

    Please stay on topic if you wish to further intelligent discussion of the subject.


  50. The significance of chapter thirteen wasn’t lost in me when I read it last year. In fact I remember reading bits of it to my wife (whose journey through corporate Scn was mercifully short compared to mine) as I found it liberating. and true for me. I think what was missing though – which hopefully will be discussed in the forthcoming book – was the FULL story of what went on behind the scenes, before, during and after LRH’s death. I personally found Wright’s book worthwhile in this regard, as it contained a lot of info and anecdotes that I had never been aware of and obviously as some one with no stake in the game at all, he didn’t feel the need to tiptoe round the “difficult” issues. I think maybe you forget sometimes that nobody else has had quite the panoramic experience that you have and what may be obvious to you with your background isn’t necessarily obvious to others. What’s the expected due date on the next book?

  51. I’m glad you posted this part of the book again. I thought that it was very balanced and shows great understanding and respect for, and recognition of L. Ron Hubbard for what he achieved. I also understand how the very idea that LRH may have recommended something which no longer applies in present time might seem dangerous to someone who is trying to “follow policy” and keep tech and policy pure.
    It seems to me that you are not throwing the baby out with the bath water, but are only refreshing the bath water so that the kid can have a nice clean bath!

  52. Marty said
    In that chapter I spelled out where and how a critical reversal is entered into the Scientology line up that enables it to be converted from a technology to free the mind and spirit to one that incarcerates beings into a cult mindset.text
    Marty ~~ I got it. I believe I did acknowledge you on it by posting on this blog in variations :::::
    Any “charge ” taken off the case in any counseling, is replaced by enforced identity. enforced be, do, have of “A good Scientologist” or a “A Scientologist in good standing.”
    The enforcements are HUGE and infiltrate every specter of the person’s life. His bank account, who he talks to , who he must unfriend, what he can or cannot do between session such as Yoga or Breathing exercises ! 🙂
    Not to mentioned enforcement of doing Basics, enforced multiple sessions a day and so on. Scientology enforces, bashes, dominates bullies and clobbers one and all.
    Scientology Inc has become a machine to imprison and entrap.
    OT VIIIs do not just plateau, they crash and burn, die of cancer, heart attacks, or leave the Church and renounce it all and end up posting on this blog or calling me to tell me the latest Freewinds horror story.
    Hubbard’s fatal flaw was way way too much punishment written in policy by own his hand. HCO Policy Letter of 5 January 1968, “Overfilled In-Basket, Bad News.” LRH says:
    In the same issue, he also said, “It takes far more ethics and far steeper, enforced penalties to make an organization work than Scientologists have been using.”
    This gave psychopath Miscavige a free pass. Hence we have had SP hole and other atrocities.
    Note that the above policy was not written to counter-attack “vested interests” but on his very own staff members.
    Because of Guardian Orders, OSA N/W orders, Flag Orders on the RPF’s RPF, policies on disconnection I conclude that much of the constant warfare Radical Official Scientology dramatizes with one and all, is written into the very DNA of the administrative green on white. Any good or positive anything achieved in early membership is more than drowned and suffocated with what comes next.

  53. Doesnt this then give credence to the policies of the time, as they were applied to the agencies that were attacking LRH/Scientology?

  54. Thanks for clarification. I would never assign you any condition. I would have to be your senior or have some seniority above you. I think this is not the case. Evidently. Probably those assigning you conditions think they are.

  55. Gern Gaschoen

    The big elephant in the room is that, while you were Inspector General, you were responsible for building the very culture you are now attacking.

    Okay, you may be making amends, but the fact remains that if we look at the time-track of Scientologys’ destructive behaviour, your name is most definitely plastered all over it.

  56. Tommy Stahl

    The lecture “The free being” ponders this question beautifully.Lets dispense with “the police force of Scientology”..

  57. Bible thumper. Haha.
    I like the daily dose of your monologues. 🙂

    Actually romans, chapter 2 gives you all the means to handle any “Bible thumper”. It even speaks of literalism.

  58. That makes you a great man, Les. Anyone should be free to believe what he wants. And it surely can bring about upset and PTS when people are forced (or even told) to leave their roots or religious traditions.

  59. Here are some references that may be helpful to anyone examining the topic of the upper OT levels:

    HCOB 30 July 1973 ‘Scientology, Current State of Subject and Materials’: “There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed and existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s attainment of OT VI and OT VII.”

    HCOB 24 January 1977 ‘Tech Correction Round Up’: “OT VIII has been in existence all these years, and to it have been added a very large number of OT grades. None of these have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence.”

    LRH ED 301 Int, 17 December 1978 ‘Ron’s Journal 30, 1978, The Year of Lightening Fast New Tech’: “UPPER LEVELS. There are other OT levels above VIII but these will be released from time to time when people are ready for them.”

  60. Good to hear you have some type of Div 6. Thanks.

  61. Well put must say

  62. theosismanides

    Marty, it gets clearer and clearer from your writing that when you move up the line, it’s more difficult to let go of one’s responsibility. You make it clearer where you put the distinction and this is good. I don’t even think it’s heretical, lol!

    Scientology has opened up a wisdom for all of us through the study and application of which some, not all, have reached much higher levels of awareness and now see life in a different way.

    This is the product of Scientology, really. A higher awareness.

    Unfortunately we have all been victims of the opposite state. A low awareness which interprets situations literally, sees the evil almost everywhere, and constantly misuses the tools of ethics and admin or even of auditing to keep people in line.

    That is not the product of Scientology.

    Many times in the SO I would be amazed to see how strict some people were towards others. Ethics officers really were an example of that strict and stupid attitude. A thetan was left with no space there, as if he/she didn’t have any self determinism. In the very philosophy where we were taught about self determinism we couldn’t practice it.

    In my own case on the other hand, when I stood up against Management for not applying the Translations HCOBs I found great opposition!!!!

    The translations were a matter of vast importance as the materials couldn’t be duplicated in English by the majority of the population of Earth so there was a constant necessity to get those materials out in other languages and render them in simple language but in a very accurate way. Hubbard had said how that could and should be done. He was no fool, he knew what he had to do to get those materials in those languages. He even got it on red on white AND green on white!!! As HCOBs and HCOPLs. But that was not being followed.

    The fact that no one in the Translations Unit stood up when I quoted policy to get it followed was a shock to me at first but then I concluded that people simply didn’t have the gains of Scientology they could have. They were not up to it to confront evil.

    It is evident to me now that such people will follow just orders, never get out of the line of Management and do what they are told. And if Management is corrupt or uninformed and unaware there goes the whole thing by the boards.

    I even went and still go much further so as to say to myself that it was me who failed to put Ethics in. When you get to know something you cannot put the blame on others.

    I see now, after so many years and having all these people around seeing that the top of Scientology is corrupt, that Scientology is going through a phase. It’s the low awareness phase where a datum is alter-ised, no duplication exists and duplication and understanding are substituted by orders and compliance. As we move along, and as it has been shown through your blog here, more people will be more aware of that higher state we are talking about and will follow that route. However, I have said it many times, going to the other extreme and just letting everybody sitting around, not being a member of any team or loosely expecting them to get something done, is not a solution either. I have to acknowledge to the church that they are at least getting people aware of that Technology and give them a chance to move as far as each one can. I personally didn’t have auditing, too much. However, through cognitions I could as-is things myself. I read a lot of LRH. I read non confidential materials of OT stuff. I got a broader viewpoint of what the goal is. And to some degree I got to duplicate and understand a lot.

    The key is Duplication. Enforcing Duplication or Understanding cannot bring off such a thing. At a certain point of time the being must be willing and capable to duplicate by himself, again.

    Miscavige not being a philosopher really but only a manager became a tyrant. He is the Elephant in the Room, if you ask me. He could never parallel Hubbard as a philosopher. He took the heavy burden of a leader and made it a mess just because he never cared to learn a philosophy and apply it in its basic concepts. He took all the bad things out of it, the glory, the power, the greed for money and MEST. No one questioned him ever in all this. So, he took the other way down, of becoming more and more MEST as he was not, himself, in any position to elevate others towards Theta through auditing. Not being a philosopher nor an auditor like LRH got him into trouble and got us all into trouble. Would he be willing to subject himself to testing the very principles of what we preached and audit people and see how it works, he might have been a better manager.

    Thus the great alter-is from a lower level of awareness. And this is our condition today. The blind leading the “blind”. Thus you get not just one but many Elephants in the Room.

  63. moneca ryane

    I have noticed the number of comments dwindle as the subject matter has veered toward personal growth and ascension, away from trauma and drama. Drama is negative, ascension is positive. Lots of people need the drama to feed their case, it is an ingrained pattern which is like a drug – you need more and more gotta have your drama fix.

    For me growth and learning are paramount. Getting stuck in old boxes is not growth, it is just stuckness. Onward,,,,,,,, Thanks Marty for helping to open the windows and sharing who you are and what you are about. I for one appreciate it.

  64. I enjoyed your books!
    Especially the paragraphs on “An Open Letter to All Clears” as a weapon of invalidation. This is vital data every pre-Clear, Clears and OTs should know.

  65. Not that the letter isn’t valuable. It is a heart felt plea for people to act kindly, care about the person in front of them. It should not be filed under “technology”. It should have been a requirement to be part of the group. The only requirement. Just treat people as you want them to treat you. That would have made the whole culture a lot different.

  66. Richard Lloyd Roberts

    I have read all you posts and have wondered where this was all going. I must say I have been confused at times. This post actually really hit home for me however and now I get it. I am sure you had stated it in other ways but this clarification really makes sense. I feel now that if once could extract just the tech and leave the admin you would become truly a clear or OT. I really think that while there should be groups that exist to deliver the tech the amount of policies that are in Scientology are more than unessesary.

    I really see that following blindly would stop free thinking and thus create robotic clears and taking every thing that is written at face value is as dangerous by not seeing it in context. The church has to evolve to survive. As one would write policy in a danger formula shouldn’t one cancel policy or no longer apply it when it’s no longer applicable.

  67. “Without the backing of Hubbard-authored Scientology policy, David Miscavige could never have created the Black Dianetics monopoly Hubbard had warned against many years before.”

    Underestimate the dark side of the force not!

  68. I think the most negative outpoint in the Scientology arena, is that there is no STOP. A cycle of action is start change stop. A person should be able to finish a cycle of action.

    With all of the arbitrariness, price increases, distractions like the special interest groups, CCHR, IAS, social betterment, staff contracts that go for a billion years, ethics cycles, staff cycles, etc etc etc….let’s face it, a lot of people start the cycle of action of going up the bridge, and never complete the cycle of action. All of them actually.

    It keeps getting extended, OT levels that do not exist, super rundowns ,after two decades of time out to put a roof over it. It goes on and on. And people are stopped and hindered in every way possible including the tech, from just finishing a simple cycle of action.

    There is no cert or award, that says you are done. After you, you are supposed to help everybody else. And the cycle of action isn’t done , ever. EVER! You go out here and start any other cycle of action, you can finish it. Not in the Church of Scientology.

    There are very few people that are OT8, class 12. None that have done the OT levels that are “not really there”.

    That means, everyone involved, is stuck in a cycle of action they can not complete.

    No wonder there are so many looneys.

    Completing the cycle of action now is an unattainable goal, as you are told there is more to complete, of things that do not even exist.

    People, to maintain their sanity just walk away. It’s the only way to complete the cycle of action!

    Hubbard said one day we would free of the Scientology. Not the way it is presented today. You NEVER “graduate with honors”. Look at Karen, who has done more than her in years and training and auditing and devotion? It goes on so long it becomes a way of life and then a tribe and then a culture. And so being, it becomes an unattainable goal to finish the cycle of action.

    It is not healthy not to be able to finish a cycle of action like this. It is not healthy to have an unattainable goal. It is not healthy to not be able to finish something that you start, having the goal line moved further and further away from you year after year.

    There are more losers than winners. Finishing the cycle of action just isn’t possible.

    If I move everything else that is wrong or does not add up off the table into some bin I could learn to live with, this still sits there like the elephant in the room.

    To ease the pain people come to think as immortals in a negative way, so time does not matter anymore. But in some kind of delirium where it gets vague and unreal. When the time doesn’t matter anymore then other things don’t matter anymore. Then the people don’t matter anymore. Mothers disconnect from their children. People get tossed out the streets like they don’t amount to anything.

    You don’t see people moving on, integrating, transcending, doing all of the natural evolution, because they can not complete the cycle of action.

    And against the backdrop of that, what does David Miscavige do? He starts new cycle of action all over the place that he does not finish or can not be finished!

    The structure is falling now like a house of cards with incomplete cycles all over the place!

    Is it any wonder things are in the state they are in?

  69. Tony — at the risk of getting a “whatever” 🙂 — you asked – “where is this all going” — my response – nowhere. As it should be.

    At least that is my take on it.

    There is a terrific book “The Path is the Goal” by Chogyam Trungpa … meaning our lives, our path is the goal. There is no goal BUT our lives/path.

    In other words, we have become, as scientologists and former scientologists SO accustomed to stats, ever increasing … to promises of the next level … to status’ and the like that we forget to even — live.

    I was a bit surprised by your comment because it seemed that you were perhaps taking Marty’s post too personally. Of all the people that he might be considering fundamentalists — I’m pretty sure you aren’t one of them 🙂

    One thing I think would be great is if we could all relax a bit and just laugh at ourselves. I get completely flipped out over comments on other boards that I find “offensive,” “make-wrongy,” “plain dumb” — you name it and then it tends to color and consume my day.

    Ridiculous waste of time. Doesn’t earn me a dime having thoughts circling endlessly in my skull. Doesn’t make me pleasant to be around as I snap at the first person who looks at me cross-eyed and it doesn’t get me one step closer to fully understanding my own life and path.

    One of the hardest attributes for me to develop that I admire, of the incredible beings I’ve had the good fortune to meet personally (various teachers and buddhists) — is patience.

    I think scientology policy and culture isn’t conducive to developing patience.

    A very important quality, I believe.

    Peace 🙂

  70. It is so damned bad Miscavige mocked up Golden Age of Tech and moved everybody back to square one. He has reorganized this entire theater, so that it is not possible, to finish a cycle of action.

    And that is pretty much all he has done, to drive everybody stark raving mad.

  71. martyrathbun09

    Great post. Rather than being freed from the illusion of time, folk get suspended in it.

  72. You don’t see people moving on, integrating, transcending, doing all of the natural evolution, because they can not complete the cycle of action.
    Yeah, right!

  73. And those that have not gone mad, are sitting in out ruds and losses or upsets. And incomplete cycles!

  74. martyrathbun09

    I believe he believed that. And that is what I meant when I said I will demonstrate no fraud. Fraud entails a knowing false representation. If you read those quotes carefully he is not saying they are in the can ready for delivery. In his remarkable mind I am sure there were hundreds of processes, even ‘levels’, never thought all the way through or experimented with, let alone written up for issuance.

  75. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Karen. I stand corrected.

  76. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Martin. Looks like mid to late May.

  77. Exactly! To make someone sane they have to be able to finish cycles of action! Put someone all the way up the bridge as far as they are allowed to go, THEN tell them they are in the middle of an incomplete cycle of action because they still haven’t done OT8 and9 (which don’t even exist) and Super Power! Who do you think people paid for that FUCKING building? To be able to complete a cycle of action! The ones that paid, they are still being told they can not finish a cycle of action!

    This is the FUCKING glue that is holding it all together for Miscavige!

    Convincing people they have not finished a cycle of action and to finish it they must do such and such!

    This is the con! And thetans get sucked into this stuff like bonding glue!

  78. This is how Scientologists get PREYED on! “Say Joe,…you have an incomplete cycle of action here. Now you don’t even have an Org to train in, it’s not an “ideal Org”. Say Joe, you need to get onto solo don’t you? You have an incomplete cycle of action here Joe. Say Joe, where are you on the bridge, stuck? Wow Joe, you are in the middle of an incomplete cycle of action and you need to get moving to finish it!”

    It does not matter if a thetan gets through OT8, he is STILL in an incomplete cycle of action!

  79. This sounds true, Marty.
    From my insights as programmer, I know that you can put aside whole constructs of development when you encounter a new way, a new approach you never thought about before. I can imagine that NOTs was such a encounter for him, and many of the before “developed” levels has become obsolete.
    It is only a guess, but I only want to say, that I had this thought before – it doesn’t sound farfetched.

    The only thing I am struggling with is, that LRH wrote something similar in 1982 (OT Maxims HCOB). It tells me that he at least experimented with further auditing approaches and had new insights and those where never shared – what do you think about it?

  80. Hi Moneca. Interesting observation. I suspect your right. This blog has been like a session, running through the incidents until they are flat. For various reasons, some are still in need reliving their scientology experience. That public forum can be found elsewhere or they can get in session. For most who remain and comment, they are for the most part moving up higher. These discussions will also attract like minded individuals and the conversation will be enriched. At times its been a little bit too deep for me, but i catch the drift and try to keep up. There is a need however to balance the esoteric with the practical, or at least keep it in terms that are easily understood. Quantum discussions are a good example. I wont be posting. I read the Holographic Universe by Talbot when it first came out and I did find it very interesting. It too touched on the Quantum mechanics. And although the subject matter fits the blog well, it may reduce many to be lurkers and not posters.

  81. martyrathbun09

    I think my book will shed a lot of light on that time period. What I make of it, is really no different from my previous comment.

  82. People walking around all gluey eyed saying, “I’m a thetan, time doesn’t really matter” when they are totally GLUED to it!

  83. Hi Windhorse,
    I didn’t take his post personally.
    I am primarily a consumer of Scientology auditing when I feel I need and want some.
    I really just don’t get what the point is. I know several “Indie” Scientologists, (I don’t like to label myself) and they are very cool people. Marty may feel they are fundamentalists. I really don’t get what it is that he wants them to do. I mean people have all different views on things. I think a lot of these Indies can find new people to audit and I don’t think they would necessarily go back to bad habits. I feel Marty could just as easily be complimenting some of these people and telling everyone what it is they are doing right.
    Why do I care? I was in the cult for over 30 years and I feel for everyone coming out, some wake up faster than others. Everyone is decompressing including Marty. It just seems to me that he is busting thier balls at this point.

  84. Agree, there is an elephant in the room,

    Sometimes you have to go outside to see it.

  85. I lost interest in policy recently. In reading it, quoting it, complaining that DM and his church members aren’t following it. I just don’t care anymore. Sure, there is some snippets of wisdom to be found here and there but on the whole, on its own, what practical use does it offer in the modern world? Scientology, at least what I know of it and want from it, is about increasing self determinism, self empowerment and personal freedom. So why the f**k would I set foot in any church or indie practice that believes in judgement, enforcement and conformity. There are indie auditors, AUDITORS ffs, who still label criticism as “natter”, as a sign of O/Ws, to not-is the value of diversity so as to feel more comfortable in their beliefs. Who talk of DM as a non-human, as if he is some sort of demonic entity and unworthy of compassion. Why would I want to be audited by someone who thinks “What is Greatness?” is conditional? Seriously. Why on god’s clean earth would I choose an auditor who judges people, who sees criticism as an “attack” and cannot make an argument without trying to disempower their “opponent”.

    I look up to people, any people, that have high ARC for others, who are calm, rational, logical, who try not to judge others (even their “enemies”), who are well-read, well-travelled, who are adventurous, humourous, who have friends of varying ethnicities, sexualities and social / economic “status”, who live their life to the max and work hard towards the accomplishment of their goals. I would like to think I am also such a person. I don’t give a rat’s ass about Xenu or “escaping the trap”; I seek improvement through Scientology because I want to amplify those traits and be a more knowledgeable, more empowered, more compassionate being. Those are also the qualities I look for in an auditor, who is intelligent and learned enough to understand the therapeutic value of Scientology and that the reason why processes “work” may not necessarily be as Hubbard describes.

    If anyone knows of such an auditor in London (or Paris), then let me know.

  86. The cycle of action David was able to complete? Burying the tech! It cost millions and millions and he did it! He can bury the tech with no problem out in the FUCKING desert where nobody can get to it! But he can not put it out on the streets in Clearwater! These bunkers cost FAR more than super power building! Yes, this is the cycle of action David could complete. BURY THE FUCKING SHIT!

  87. And what is your point really? We all contributed to the scene . That Marty was closer to the action doesn’t change that fact . Actually I believe it is because of what he lived through and created at the time that he can better help now . Pointing a righteous finger at the obvious is not going to get you to move up.
    Facing my own responsibility in the disaster , as a public , has helped me sort out the confusion and life has become simpler , solutions become simpler and more effective .
    It is interesting to me that Ethics is still being used to stop , enforce and make wrong . I can trace my own eye opening moment , even if still blind for lack of data , when I completed the Ethics specialist course . Confront of evil , recognition of LRH compassion for people , that was my understanding , all of it a help flow.
    That understanding allowed me to read Marty’s books and recognize simplicity and truth.

  88. ‘Tech Correction Round Up’, of 24 January 1977, continues:

    “…*Notes for all these grades are in existence*. What I have been waiting for is 2 or 3 months of free time to go over these materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations…”

    One question that jumps out is, “How is that LRH had time to write 11 novels, but no time to fulfill his promise – and it does appear to have been a promise – of “a very large number”/”perhaps 15 levels” ?

    And where are the notes?

  89. Gotcha … why don’t you call him and ask?

    As for not knowing the point … well, I think he’s extremely validating of LDW … he just seems to be rattling a few cages … not necessarily a bad thing but definitely not a comfortable thing …

    You must have some specific people in mind (“I feel Marty could just as easily be complimenting …”) and I appreciate you don’t wanting to name names which is why I said … why not just call him and ask?


  90. Elephant or Red Herring?
    Does anyone here really believe that in 1993 The CoS, (with maybe, at the most, a billion in its “war chest” at the time), actually defeated The IRS, the collection arm of the wealthiest, most powerful (controlling about 80% of the planets money flows) privately owned, International Banking Cartel this planet has ever seen?

    Yes, as DM Proclaimed in 93, “The War Is Over” but please ask yourself, Who Won? Isn’t it all too obvious!

  91. A classic, large scale example of HCO PL 31 Jan. 72, Data Series 22, THE WHY IS GOD – with LRH being the God.

  92. Tony, you ask the same questions I ask myself:
    – how does he think the Scientology movement outside the church should evolve, integrate, transcend?

    I also feel sometimes “sorry” for the reputation of Scientology in the world. I know it would be great if some folks (non-scientoligist scientists, philosophers, psychologists, sociologists et al) would look deeper into what LRH has developed, but it doesn’t seem to happen, although all the basic books of Scientology are available outside the church.
    Some of them are maybe lurking and even implement some of the insights of LRH but will never admit to it.
    Is Scientology condemned to be nothing more than just a “religion”, a religious movement?
    Was LRH right, when he said Scientology is not for every one?
    I think only time can answer these questions.

    I think that your suggestion we should validate the good things they (Indies, Freezoners) do is the correct action. The checksheets, the compilation of materials, the delivery. All of it is important, because it just could be that no one from “the outside” really cares about Scientology.
    And we shouldn’t expect it.
    What should happen?
    Some wise international speaker tells on the television what a beautiful path to enlightement Scientology is?
    Or that its preocesses are so great and could be integrated into Buddhist practice?
    Well, this would be nice, of course, but we shouldn’t count on it.
    Many Scientology techniques have been already integrated in different other practices, without or with minimum account to LRH.
    So I think it is very valuable when some people want to preserve the original route outside the church – and I am not condemning evolution, integration or transcendence.

  93. I loved your post and I appreciate your work. We have to move up and beyond where we’ve been. It is time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    An interesting side note is that “the greatest good for the greatest number” is what Dickens writes about in his novel “A Tale of Two Cities.” He shows where that kind of thinking can lead you to brutality and in the end make you the oppressor, which is exactly what you were saying. This is a concept that comes from Utilitarianism, a philosophy that was popular in 18th century England and something LRH was probably familiar with from his days dabbling in the occult; as in its classic form Utilitarianism is hedonistic.

  94. Marty said, “I believe [LRH] believed that.”

    Believing that reality supports more OT levels is all fine and dandy, but that is very different than explicitly claiming to have done research in a multitude of grades beyond OTVIII, or furthermore, claiming that “Notes for all these grades are in existence.”

    As B.Volta said, “where are the notes?”

    A belief that more levels exist is arbitrary in nature anyway. Depending on how you divide define each OT “level” you could make any infinite number of them regardless of reality’s ability to support them or not.

    Think of walking halfway to a door, and then halfway again, ad infinitum. You’ll try infinite times (levels), but you’ll simply never arrive at the door (so, no results–“let’s add more levels!”).

    Maybe this was Hubbard’s idea all along. Sounds a lot like Scn’s “carrot-on-a-stick” always-striving-for-but-never-receiving-the-promised-results framework everyone knows and loves, doesn’t it?

  95. Yay, Les!

  96. martyrathbun09

    I never said I believed there were further OT levels in the offing. Quite to the contrary. I was addressing the allegation of fraud – which you can see if you read the exchange more carefully.

  97. Marty, perhaps you dont consider me a “independant scietogology practitioner” but i have posted/commented many times on the subject matter of Reversal.

    In summary: i believe, and have believed since before your WWWS book, that the Spirititual Tech of Hubbard is extremely valid and workable, but that the Admin Policy/Tech of hubbard is, as a complete stem, not workable and the attempted application of Admin Tech can and will lead to problems with applying the Spiritual Tech.

    Your points regarding An Open Letter are both cogent and important.

    I reject spiritual slavery in all forms, even from Hubbard. I thank him for his Spirtitual Tech, and, as a being reserve the right to reject wholesale anything of his i dont agree with or condone, which i find plenty of in his Admin Policty/Tech.

  98. Great to hear you discuss things in the detail like you discuss them.

    Lack of results is what LRH says will most bite the subject, Scientology, in KSW #1.

    Scientologists have to really be honest about their results, and my big complaint is most Scientologists are driven to shy away from being transparent and flexible in talking about their results, or lack of them, honestly, in detail, to the same standards that the rest of the world discusses various practices and their results.

    Ken Wilbur showing with the portable ECG machine, his ability to control his brain waves is such a good example of showing the results one’s obtained.

    Or results, like a modern day meditative practitioner, like in this excellent blogginheads video, where this man on the right, Gary Weber, has achieved at least a pretty high level of release.


    Marty, your being open to listen and discuss the major controversies and all other bloggers and commenting Scientologists, is a huge positive direction.

    Having open public discussion about results is a major right step in Scientology as a subject’s, evolution!

    And it’s the admin side of Scientology that has the penalty rules making open public discussion a Crime, High Crime and Suppressive Act, which is unnecessary.

    One of official Scientology’s biggest problems, which LRH was honest about, is the KSW #1 point that lack of results causes major backlash.

    Scientology practitioners inside our outside the official church, have to produce honest transparent results.

    This above interview covering this man’s meditative release testimonial, to me, is a pretty good example of the bar that Scientologists who achieve their release and other major stages of accomplishment, ought be able to be open to discuss publicly!

    I’d like to see a blogginheads similar discussion between you Marty and Phil Speckler, or Phil Speckler and Ken Urquhart, or lots of other one o one discussions of the most definite levels of release that the Scientology processing grades accomplish!

    One thing I think the media and scholars have conveniently for them, since it requires much more expertise, to discuss, is discussing the results, with articulate Scientologists who can fluently discuss the results, and honestly humbly discuss the lack of results without a lot of blame and shame or guilt!

  99. And, I never said that you said you believed it.

    I thought it was quite clear that you and I were referring to LRH, his beliefs and claims. How he used them as a carrot-on-a-stick to keep the people of Scn interested in “what’s to come”–and therefore keep the money flowing.

    If these levels never existed, as you believe, then LRH’s actions are fraud–plain and simple.

  100. Yes I do have some names in mind. I’m only in comm with a couple of Indies outside of this and other blogs. I actually have emailed Marty and tried to act as a go between to help patch up the ARCX with he and Steve Hall. I found Steve pretty willing and Marty not so much.

    To a large degree I think all of this is just some sort of an ARCX that is being dragged through the time stream.

    I have talked to both Steve and Marty in person and on the phone. I feel I have had a pretty good line with each of them. Marty audited me and I liked his auditing a lot. Steve and I have had some real good long conversations. I know Steve didn’t like Marty sort of generalizing about Independent Scientologists being this way or that. They apparantely couldn’t see eye to eye on a few things and then Steve Hall blasted Marty in one of his posts on this blog after being antagonized by Marty. So now it continues.

    I think painting any Indie outside of the cult as being intolerant or any other thing is counter productive and opens the door for them to start telling Marty what his out-points are.

    I think that the Scientology cult was so intrusive spiritually with the sec checking and lower conditons and shit like that, anyone who made it out deserves some sort of a medal, not to be constantly picked apart.

    Some others who cross flow this might think we are childish because we get so personal and are so willing to air our “dirty laundry”. But this is nothing compared to getting 5 intensives of sec checking or FPRD with the purpose of making you feel like scum.

    I don’t think Marty and Steve have ever had a conversation on the phone over their upset with each other. I think that is a real shame. I think they are both good guys. They both were at the Int hell hole too. Maybe one day they will be able to apply some of the Scientology philosphy they keep speaking so highly of.

  101. I agree with what you say here SKM.
    I think the way to get the Scientology “good stuff” out into the world is by setting good examples and by having good auditors who audit people who tell their friends and so forth. As far as I’m concerned that is how Scientology has always spread.
    Absolutes are unobtainable so no Indie is going to be perfect and that includes Marty.
    My suggestion would be to grant beingness as much as possible and help the Indie auditors as much as possible.
    I think Marty didn’t name names for certain reasons. But at this point it might be better to name the names otherwise it starts to seem like a generality of “indies” are this or that.
    Personally I think their are a lot of nuts on planet Earth. The correct target is not Indies. Although I would include Indies as having some nuts within that group too.

  102. This kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years.
    Constantine and the priests and bishops that decided what the bible would include…threw out all the gospels…Except Matthew Mark Luke and John (there were many more) and went after the Nostics for wanting to celebrate all the gospels.
    When will we learn that no religion has a monopoly on the truth? Truth is bigger than any religion.

  103. martyrathbun09

    Well, you would be wrong on several scores. Speculation often takes on a life of its own when folks attempt to meddle in other people’s affairs. But, to address your original post: I am doing all I can to assist and support them. Some recognize it. Some don’t. Some will listen. Some can’t. Some are afflicted by what Ron said about people who couldn’t wrap their wits around Scientology – the misunderstood is on an earlier subject. I don’t think that folks who never got Scientology in the first place are going to understand or agree with much of anything I am writing about.

  104. Simply Revolting


    The Is-ness.

    I like this most of all that you have posted.

    It is so much the underpinning of the problem of organized Scientology.

    I reflected on the number of people, in the last 30 plus years, who by just being in an organization directed towards betterment of self, had marked themselves as being worthy of some admiration and respect, but who were systematically driven out like enemies.

    The number of C/Ss, auditors, staff members and public who were not just good in a passive sense, but who were actually really good people, driven out by harsh literal application of policy and by the Church ‘eating alive’ its own income source. They literally threw the babies out with the bath water. I really hope and aim to do something to re-establish workable, gainful, ‘happy’ Scientology somehow, somewhere, and curse the amount of time wasted, debt incurred, lack of easy access to scientology auditing and training and the huge number of good people lost.

  105. martyrathbun09

    He believed what he said to the very end – I have no about that. And therefore, no fraud case can credibly be made.

  106. martyrathbun09

    Target? Enemies? Come on, Tony, relax.

  107. I wished people who were around when he wrote these quotes, meaning Paulette Ausley, David Mayo, and whoever else have had access to LRH’s pc folders, because it is his notes in the margins of his own pc folder worksheets, and his later despatch notes to the top tech people right under him, which are the things that need be searched through his wiritings.

    It’s what Senior C/S Int Office followed his actual orders, in fact these public statements ARE orders to do this exact searching through his pc folders, and through the pc folders of cases he case supervised, when he believed that those various experimenting orders were leading to something like these additional OT levels!!!

    I mean these will all be there in his case folders, and in the case folders of cases he oversaw!

    That’s part of what Senior C/S Int Office was charged with doing!

    Digging up all these avenues and experimental directions that came to his mind while he was Case Supervising others and while he was auditing and directing the auditing of himself!!!

    Marty, please, this requires people like David Mayo, Paulette Ausley, Otto Roos and Ray Mitoff, and people who know this whole angle of how LRH’s technical orders were researched out, and the dialogue back and forth that went on, in ALL of the research, piloting and drawing up of t the various rundowns, into the final issued rundowns we have today, for ALL of the levels that official Scientology does on it’s official members, and on the stripped down levels that many factions of the independent movement do on their cohorts.

    To get to the upper levels above OT 8, needs honestly be done with LRH’s case folders, and with the case folders of all of the cases he might have made comments about, in relation to what he was thinking the upper upper levels would soneday consist of.

    Granted, and those of us who can “think” with LRH’s research direcitons, piloting, finalizing, and issuing the tech in the final issued rundowns that get used, discussion of these upper upper levels, NEEDS to discuss actual examples from the past.

    I observed Rick Sheehy discuss the finalizing of the Expanded Dianetics issues, all based on LRH’s C/Sing of the trial ExDn cases. I observed Ken Rose discuss piloting he was overseeing. I observed and read the LRH advices for the RTRC Compilations Officer Full Hat, I did the full hat, but never became a full fledged compiler at all, but as a beginner “go for” under Dan Koon, I took the fundamental LRH outline orders for how to research, compile, pilot, finalize and issue his technical research, seriously.

    Dan’s written somewhat about it. It deserves a lot more detailed open discussion.

    We need LRH’s case folders, and we need the case folders of all those people that LRH left his margin comments in, and do the FULL research through ALL those case folders, and through ALL of LRH’s research notes in ALL of the various places he left his tech notes!!!

    It’s a whole detailed process, and LRH in the advices that are the reading materials on the LRH Tech Research and Compilations Officer Full Hat Checksheet (even the one I studied in total earnestness in 1988 when I apprenticed in RTRC then under Snr C/S Int Office) the nuts and bolts of how to compile pilot and package the upper upper OT rundowns means talking with the people who HAVE studied LRH’s case folders and the case folders of all those people over the decades, that LRH case supervised for, and also go through the decades of his research tech notes!)

    If Paulette, David Mayo and Otto Roos, could be intelligently and transparently interviewed, about LRH’s case folders, their contents, the research notes, then that would be a huge step in the right direction to resolving the truth of just how much of LRH’s case folders and the other people’s case folders contain enough material to develop into X number of upper upper OT levels.

    Have you or anyone you know for sure, read through ALL of LRH’s case folders?

    Ray Mitoff,is someone I hope someday gets out and discusses this, since I think Ray’s had access to LRH’s final case folders, and would now what he’s looking at, when he read LRH’s final case folders!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)

  108. Hi Theo

    I want to acknowledge you regarding your view on the value of groups in getting things done.

    When one has a group that aligns with their own views of optimum survival then it effectively increases their reach as a being significantly. This is a highly valuable thing… It is one of the urges toward survival of human beings for good reason.

    The problems come in when the “group” becomes aberrated, and goes off the rails regarding the pursuit of optimum survival for ALL of the dynamics, not just its own existence. Policies of the group can end up promoting aberrated behavior within the group and its relationship with its environment. These actually reduce, rather than enhance, its survival potential, long term. (the same as aberrations do with individual beings)

    It is quite plain that this has happened in the Church of Scientology. As Marty says, and I also find true, the Church was doomed by some of the policies that were implemented, and enforced, initially by LRH himself.

    I do not really think that that was LRH’s purpose, but that was the result, and some of the policies, if followed, have actually made it impossible to correct, and, in fact, will continue to make it worse until the Church organization totally destroys itself. And since the Church is a group, and as such contains within it all of the other dynamics, these other dynamics will be either abandoned, attacked, or pulled down with it.

    I believe that, during LRH’s time, as reflected by policy, “the Church” went below 2.0 on the tone scale, and its own policies are effectively preventing it from coming back up above that.

    You may well appreciate that many of those who were deeply involved with the Church are quite “gun shy” when it comes to setting up new Scientology organizations. At some level they must suspect that there will be no guarantees that these groups will not also follow that same path.

    The way I see it, is that the only truly “safe” way to avoid this repeating of history, is to do Data Evaluations that find the “real whys” for the situations in the first place, and then coming up with handlings that truly HANDLE the situations, and any danger in them.

    I consider that it is a risky endeavor to try to set up a Scientology delivery organization, using Scientology organizational policies, without taking that first step.

    I personally think that one would be better off to throw out the entirety of Scientology policy and then only implement policies that align with the actual goals and purposes of the new group AND THE OTHER DYNAMICS COMBINED, be they “scientology” policies, or not.

    The good news is that there ARE organizations outside of the Church that are delivering Scientology. Whether they survive or not, and how well they survive and achieve their purposes, depends on whether they truly are aligned with the concept of “optimum survival across the Dynamics”.

    The truth is in what effects they create.

    Eric S

  109. Dear S.R.
    Good Post.
    The number of excellent people who went into the Wood Chipper head first is staggering.

  110. George,

    There are many organizations, every year, that are given full non-profit and religious status because of actual merit … not because the group pressured the IRS into it through “war tactics” and unethical means.

    The end does not justify the means just because it’s Scientology.

    If anything, it should be just the other way around — Scientology, more than any group, should have been able to show that it was worthy of the status and deserved it.

    That would have been applying real Scientology, imho.

  111. According to David Mayo, in his article on Clear from the early 1990s – which can found on the Net – LRH, in 1979, redefined, and re-explained, “Clear” for “PR and marketing” purposes.

    From the late 1960s through most of the 1970s, OT 8 was sold as an existing level – I know, because I purchased it at AOLA – and the promised End Result/EP of (old) OT 8 was, IIRC, “Ability to be at cause over Matter, Energy, Space, Time, form, life, and thought, subjective and objective.”

    Yet, according David Mayo, and others, (old) OT 8 never existed.

    Sooner or later, these unpleasant details, having to do with the tech, will have to be confronted.

  112. I’m not that worked up Marty.
    I just don’t understand the emphasis on these Indie guys. Why not just give the specifics on who you are talking about and what the exact things are and maybe they will have the guts to communicate about it? Otherwise I don’t see why you don’t just skip it. You point out in your post that there is a lot of noise in the Indie field about your heretical views. I mean I hear a tiny bit. But if you really want to put it to rest I think you could.
    Just my opinion.
    By the way I didn’t mention anything about enemies. I said target. A target is something that you aim for, and that seems to be what you are doing.
    I’m going back to my knitting now.

  113. I’m not trying to be an advocate for all Indies.
    I think Steve Hall has a good grasp on Scientology.
    I was really trying to give you some suggestions but I can see that you think it’s all good. That’s cool. Have a nice weekend.

  114. Karen,
    Perfect statement of the contradictions of all things Scientology.

  115. “I think the way to get the Scientology “good stuff” out into the world is by setting good examples and by having good auditors who audit people who tell their friends and so forth. As far as I’m concerned that is how Scientology has always spread.”
    Agree Tony, that’s the only way. And I know that Scientology is spreading in the Independant Field (to new public).

    As a side note, I even think that if some VIP philosopher or whatever would start to tell the people about his insights into Scientology it even could become very contra-productive for the technology.
    Imagine a guy like Wilbur would attest to some of it in one of his lectures but at the same time would say that “this is the only thing interesting/functioning in Scientology”. Well, this would be not so optimal. So to some degree it’s ok they leave it alone.

    Scientology is a subject in itself. There will be always someone who picks some parts of the tech and implements it into his own school. But I think Scientology should also be preserved as-is. Leave it to the student to use Study-Tech and learn to compare the data to the universe around him. When he learned to walk and run, he will eventually learn to fly and transcend.
    This is my take.

  116. I have found the first three items to be enlightening when I am in a confusion about why my attention is so tied up on someone. If I look at their behavior and see that this is going on, I am able to let go of trying to fix things, clean things up, etc., because it just ain’t gonna happen.

  117. Added note:

    A group is an association of individuals. The apparent “aberrations of the group” are actually the AGREED UPON aberrations of the individuals who make up that group. To de-aberrate a group you have to get the individuals to re-evaluate these agreements.

    It seems to me that policies (decisions) made (and “laid in”) while a group is under stress, can act in the same way as statements (commands), do in the “reactive minds” of individuals.

    Eric S

  118. The Economist


    Need to arrange some auditing. To where can I send you a secure email?

  119. “I think the most negative outpoint in the Scientology arena, is that there is no STOP. A cycle of action is start change stop. A person should be able to finish a cycle of action.”

    What a great observation Oracle. No end! I never thought of that before. Heck, even colleges got that part right. Go four years, get a degree. It’s done. Now go live your life.

  120. Your thoughts make me think of Steve Pfauth’s story of LRH’s feelings of failure, that LRH admitted to Steve, 6 weeks before LRH died.

    I think an open full discussion of what parts of his efforts most contributed to his feeling overall that he’d “failed.”

    Most Scientologists would not think he meant his tech! I think we’d most think he was thinking about the part of the movement that Marty says he’d likely just scrap, the whole big admin setup of the church.

    In fact, now when I reflect back on some of my several years ago questions to Marty, I think he must have been thinking about this info from Steven Sarge Pfauth, who heard some of LRH’s final summarizing thoughts about the whole shebang.

    In that light, I hope and wish Steven’s stories could be more discussed by Steven, and by Marty.

    I know this is all “verbal data” to the extreme.

    But, honestly, the better than Scientologists become accurate with relaying their lives and history, the more truth that gets shared so people really can think fully with all of LRH’s ideas and directions.

    Judging LRH’s final honest and sincere heartfelt public writings in the final years of Ron’s Journals, I would NOT think LRH was talking about his “failure” in tech terms.

    But mainly admin terms.

    And I recall Marty’s years ago blog posting, which now makes even better sense to me today, now that I think about the Lawrence Wright book’s most important new revelation (since LRH’s doubts have NOT been widely spread nor taken seriously on blog sites in these several decades since LRH died), so this new news about LRH’s doubt that he “failed”, because of the one thread about LRH’s 1950 Essay On Management, which contains the point about how the goal finder must NOT become the admin management of the practice that the goal finder comes up with, this point is a hugely debatable point also, but I’d give LRH the benefit of the doubt in predicting his failure as top manager of the movement, is what mostly applies to his admission of “having failed” that he admitted to Sarge Steven Pfauth. That’s my suppressively reasonable justification for LRH’s admission of failure.

  121. Marty, with each one of your posts that I read and then in reading all the comments ensuing, I can do more than articulate (through my comments) but an infinitesimal portion of the abundant “soul searching” that has been incited as a result.

    Personally, I’m not looking for a leader, a guru, a teacher, a ‘way shower’ or group agreement but I really do appreciate a good facilitator. Thank you for being a most adept facilitator Marty.

  122. Marty, with your permission I would like to post the following update of an earlier post of mine.

    A critique of Scientology Part I:

    The most basic contradictions in Scientology are not in its Axioms and fundamental laws of Theta-MEST, nor in its exquisitely developed auditing procedures. No, they are the magnificent products of unparalleled genius.

    The travesty and contradictions of all those incredible insights are found in its general approach and spin about Scientology itself, its role and its relationships with every individual that seeks to use it.

    For while Scientology, no doubt, could take you to those promised mystical states, it subsequently bars and corrupts those attainments by the following:

    1) It very carefully indoctrinates every student into the belief that they must become a Scientologist in order to achieve those higher states.

    2) It very carefully indoctrinates every student to be obedient and subservient to the subject itself.

    3) It presumes to have the right to, and becomes the de-facto source point for a menu of roles and behaviors that it assigns its members.

    3) It gradually takes on the universe of every student and makes nothing out of it, and progressively makes the universe of Scientology the end goal of everything.

    That all mystical traditions of any import had already identified and recognized those points above as the ultimate blocks in attaining higher states, is completely lost to the average Scientologist. The higher the training the more arrogant and clueless some of these auditors seem to be.

    That the above points are the inevitable lot and necessary steps for the beginner student of any mystical system, it is also lost to the average Scientologist, precisely because Scientology discourages its study in context with other philosophical systems.

    It should be plainly obvious to anyone contemplating freedom of viewpoint, pan-determinism, the state of non-duality or the Static itself, that becoming fixated into something, let alone asserting, defending and promoting an arbitrary, other-determined identity, are contrary to the attainment of those goals.

    The last act of the mystic in attaining his goal is to dispose of whatever system he used to get there, not to hide it from others who will follow, but to free himself from its clutches.

    The entire modus operandi of Scientology practice, as it has currently degenerated into, can be summed up by the following excerpt from the chapter “The Road to Certainty” from The Creation of Human Ability book:

    “All control is effected by introducing uncertainties and hidden influences; “Look how bad is over there, so you’ll have to look back at me” Thus slavery is effected solely by getting people to fix on one thing”.

    By its own approach Scientology violates the most basic promise that LRH made as he founded this Philosophy. That was summarized in the chapter “The Auditor’s Code” from Scientology 8-80 book:

    “The goal of the Auditor is to rehabilitate the self-determinism of his preclears, to bring back his hope and power, to get his preclears up to where the preclear, all of his own, KNOWS.”

    This goal was further immortalized on the Scientology 8-0008 book:

    “One has to tell oneself what to be before one is. Recovery of this ability is the essence of processing a Thetan.”

    “The highest one can attain to Truth is to attain to his own illusions.”

    Finally, after 30 years of struggling with Scientology organizations and its followers, I can only conclude that Scientology as practiced, it is in actuality a philosophical contradiction, and its advertised goals are at present an impossibility.

    My best wishes to all practicing Scientologists.

  123. ThetaPotata

    I agree with both you and SKM. If you’re interested in Scientology and want to find a practitioner who is not part of the RCS for either training or processing. Stumbling onto disagreements between independents is like finding a turd in a punchbowl.

  124. Hello my old friend, i had your back at WWP butt it seems we have something in common.

  125. You wrote:
    “Dianetics and Scientology would never have been developed at all had L. Ron Hubbard been such a conformist.”

    I smiled when you wrote this, because no matter what one thinks about LRH, or the subject of Scientology as a whole, one can only agree.

  126. martyrathbun09

    Aside from your umbrage at the idea of pointing out cultic Scientology practices outside the church, did you have any thoughts on the issue that I wrote about that I characterized as having ‘far-reaching implications’?

  127. martyrathbun09

    Aside from your umbrage at the idea of pointing out cultic Scientology practices outside the church, did you have any thoughts on the issue that I wrote about that I characterized as having ‘far-reaching implications’?

  128. Tell it like it is

  129. martyrathbun09

    You noted ‘LRH, in 1979, redefined, and re-explained, “Clear” for “PR and marketing” purposes.’ I disagree. In 1978 he defined Clear more accurately and honestly than at any other time – and never redefined it after that.

  130. martyrathbun09

    Chuck, interiorization into the ‘missing’ words of L. Ron Hubbard, and attempting to divine his unpublished intentions, is the road to shizophrenia if not hell.

  131. NO, with you being a God, and LRH and Me

  132. Discussing results or even demonstrating them is simply not possible. I did demostrate my Scientologist wife how I could control 100 animals. She did see it with her eyes but could not „perceive“ it. If it is too much out reality perception is shut off. If you video tape it then it is a fake.
    If a real magician is on stage or on TV those that know about magic can see it if it is magic. Those that are no magicians themselfs cannot see it and think it is a good show and a good trick.
    There are quite a lot of electronic circuits installed in the mind of a person that prevent observation and especially observation of „supernatural“ phenomena.
    Being out reality is a good way to hide. Evil personalities are so much out reality that people do not think they can harm anyone. Until it is too late.

  133. One motto that I like from other areas of discussion is PEARL — Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic. What Marty is doing, in part, is invoking Reasoned Logic.

    In Scientology terms, A=A=A would be the polar opposite of Reasoned Logic. Yet a 3rd dynamic culture that says all HCOPLs, HCOBs, each utterance, etc. is exactly A=A=A.

    Mary is suggesting inserting the order of Reason into an irrational 3rd Dynamic. As Ron pointed out, when order is put in, disorder blows off. (Anyone can see this wonderfully simple principle whenever a closet or garage or whatever is cleaned — it gets far messier at first, and then when the cleaning is done, the desired state of greater order is put in.)

    Part of the order that the 3D of CoS, Inc. needs to put in is the order of Reason and the moving away from A=A=A 3rd dynamic thinking.

    A policy written in a time of “war” and bare knuckles fight for survival is _context sensitive_. It is not logically in any way the same level of statement as say the observable concept that the mind is composed of mental image pictures (the same concept appears in other religions and sciences as mental representations, with the recognition that they are constructs of the mind. The ability and nature of the mind to create mental representations will endure. “War” policies need to fade as the context changes.

    The A=A=A of CoS, Inc. is just as silly as if America continued to adhere to the same food rationing and metal collection drives that it had during WW II, continued after WW II.

    It would make no more sense than claiming that one should take antibiotics for a bad infection — forever.. Instead of taking them in the context of time and situation that they may be needed.

    So I agree. it is critical that people move away from the group think that “everything Scientology is not only good but perfect and compulsory without exception for all time and all situations” and the converse that “everything non-Scientology is bad and imperfect and should be shunned or even destroyed without exception for all time and situations.”

    That sort of group think will mark Scientology as a cult and lead to its ultimate demise. Marty keeps pointing toward rationality. I admire him greatly for his courage and perseverance.

  134. I’ll reply here, since there’s no way to reply to your reply.

    Yes, it was 1978, that Clear was re-explained and redefined.

    LRH’s redefinition and re-explanation of Clear created quite a bit of excitement, followed by quite a bit of confusion. The excitement resulted in the money flow to Flag increasing drastically, much as the promised OT 8 (“Total Power & Total Freedom”) of the mid/late 1960s, and much of the 1970s, excited people, and increased the cash flow.

    Unfortunately, the OT 8 that LRH, in January 1977, stated “has been in existence all these several years,” in “note” form, and which excited people for a decade prior, didn’t exist.

  135. Just read ALL the books Hubbard read and think and decide for yourself

  136. hubbard did throw a lot of people in the water too.

  137. Joe Pendleton

    mwestern – wonderful post. Second your comments a million times over and then some more.

  138. Joe Pendleton

    Karen, great, GREAT post. You nailed it with that LRH reference as to what Ron’s attitude had become towards staff members by that point. I think it was in HCO PL Conditions How to Assign, where he says groups thrive when ethics are “savage.” And there are many more (stats just don’t go down, they are HELD down,etc etc).

    We can speculate as to why Ron took this turn (I have my own ideas). But the very ironic part of all these PLs (and I think you will verify this Karen, as an “old timer”) and I say this as someone whose long career in Scientology started on staff in 1970 – Have you ever seena group of people that WANTED to do well and produce, more than Scientology staff members? (certainly in the old days) Of course you always run into a rotten apple or two in any group over time, but to a very large degree, all I saw of staff members was a group of folks who were willing to work around the clock, for hardly any money necessatating working jobs in their “off” hours as well to pay the rent, forsaking many other dynamics, all to keep the show on the road to clearing the planet. And THIS is the group you gotta get real tough with????????????????

  139. Hey! I wanted to say that! (The only thing I’d add is that too many seem to have forgotten about being truly OT. The senior viewpoint, the big picture, is necessary to get all the pieces to align.)

  140. martyrathbun09

    B, Clearly you didn’t get the 78 memo.

  141. Not a surprsing fate eh? Especially for organizations that never actually followed to the letter anything L. Ron Hubbard wrote anyway! But more or less stated “their church was about this” just to keep people coming in. And is it surprising that an unrepentant moron like David Miscavige would find this as his “calling in life”? More and more people I encounter every day that have never had any dealings with the church directly in any one way, are seeemingly more and more expert in their opinion that the Church of Scientology “is a cult group that steals people’s money”. Although I may be alive to verify that statement is true, I am thankful I was not part of creating the events that currently lead people to this conclusion. 🙂

  142. If man were even halfway un-insane, policy wouldn’t have been necessary.

  143. The 1978 memo? Please explain.

    Marty, are you going to address the other issues in my posts re. the OT levels?

    Why bring up the subject only to gloss over and rationalize the unpleasant parts?

    Seems to me that you’re proceeding along a path that, eventually, will require a serious examination of possible corruption of the tech by LRH himself.

    At some point, LRH must have realized that he would not be able to provide a way to OT, or even to true Clear, but he never admitted it. He never came clean.

    How refreshing it would have been if LRH had just told the truth to Scientologists, instead of stringing them along.

  144. Thanks Marty for offering up this pinpoint accurate commentary that helps to dissolve another display of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE displayed and dramatized within the radical corporate structure and the means whereby the diminutive destructive demonic dwarf ply’s his suppressive and sociopathic trade.

    I got your point that various ‘independents” need to take another look at the issues presented, too.

    For what it’s worth folks, if we’re going to obsess on any of the 8 dynamics, can’t we at least get beyond the 3rd? That’s my nickel.

  145. martyrathbun09

    I am not glossing over anything. You are not attempting to understand me. Likely because I have a purpose to help move people up out the cult while you quite apparently want to attack Hubbard.

  146. Your humble servant


    I didn’t ask about “crimes.” I just wondered if the critical writer had done anything in life to compare with Ron’s remarkable accomplishments that he seemed so critical of.

  147. My purpose is to tell the truth.

    I hope that is your purpose also.

  148. Your humble servant

    Yes, that was certainly a main factor or the main factor 20 or so years ago, but I still believe that the U.S. government is much more comfortable with the official church today because it has ceased freeing people and is routinely trapping them. Much less of a threat to the powers that be, I think. Thanks for your response.

  149. martyrathbun09

    Demonstrate it.

  150. martyrathbun09

    I was involved in every step in the 11 year campaign to attain exemption. From my first hand observation of the IRS from line agent to Commissioner, even to Treas Inspector General, to Reps and Senators on IRS oversight, no such intent as your implying exists. You are fearing an intention that does not exist.

  151. You might like Spinoza’s God, Einstein did.

  152. That’s what I’m saying Margaret! In the beginning, there was a top off point. Even in the 1970’s you could get through OT7 in two years even if you were running 200 hours on a drug rundown on old Dianetics as a foundation p.c. You could train through Class 8 in under two years. You could be in and out in four years and DONE. Everyone was relaxed. Everyone was winning. A LOT of people did it and moved on! For the love of God now it takes a few years to get through the “basics” books courses before one even starts! Now, people are directed onto buying the fucking Org before they can start to read in it!

    I know one can finish little cycles of action within the big cycle of action.

    In this way the Church NEVER REALLY has, A FINISHED PRODUCT though!


  153. Great observation, moneca. Thank-you.
    And Marty, I also appreciate it.

  154. The Church is over half a century old, show me ONE FINISHED PRODUCT! There ISN’T ONE!

  155. I have demonstrated it.

    The funny part of it is, a few months or a few years from now, you’ll agree with me.

    Best wishes.

  156. “Cycles of action produce TIME.” L.R.H.

    “The cycle of action contains an APPARENCY of SURVIVAL, but this is actually only a continuous creation.” L.R.H.

  157. Your post made me think of The Code of a Scientologist. The 1969 version included “To take my share of responsibility for the impact of Scientology upon the world.”

    But it seems that LRH had the idea at least as early as 1954 to require that Scientologists take responsibility for Scientology, since even the 1954 version in The Creation of Human Ability was essentially a list of responsibilities:
    As a Scientologist, I pledge myself to the Code of Scientology for the good of all.
    1 To hear or speak no word of disparagement to the press, public or preclears concerning any of my fellow Scientologists, our professional organization or those whose names are closely connected to this science.
    2 To use the best I know of Scientology to the best of my ability to better my preclears, groups and the world.
    3 To refuse to accept for processing and to refuse to accept money from any preclear or group I feel I cannot honestly help.
    4 To deter to the fullest extent of my power anyone misusing or degrading Scientology to harmful ends.
    5 To prevent the use of Scientology in advertisements of other products.
    6 To discourage the abuse of Scientology in the press.
    7 To employ Scientology to the greatest good of the greatest number of dynamics.
    8 To render good processing, sound training and good discipline to those students or peoples entrusted to my care.
    9 To refuse to impart the personal secrets of my preclears.
    10 To engage in no unseemly disputes with the uninformed on the subject of my profession.
    11 To completely refrain from discussing the case of another auditor’s preclear with that preclear, or within his hearing.

  158. When you make friends with an elephant trainer, you must make room for the elephant.

  159. “I feel Marty could just as easily be complimenting some of these people and telling everyone what it is they are doing right.”

    Tony, your viewpoint is backed up by The Factors:

    “14…But the most valued point is admiration, and admiration is so strong its absence alone permits persistence.”

    That’s been a tough one for many of us to apply! I know I’m still working on it and I’m glad you brought it to my attention in a new unit of time. 🙂

  160. martyrathbun09

    Doubtful; I’m no longer seeking hallucinatory cause.

  161. Marty, it’s not that. No hallucinations here.

    I’ve been helping people graduate from Scientology for many years.

    There are stages of progressive freeing.

    Your situation is more complicated because you are a leader. You say one thing and people agree with you; then, you change your mind (as you grow), and sometimes you meet resistance from some of your previous supporters.

    Sometimes, you may find yourself locked into ideas or views you once held and expressed, having been attacked for those views. Sometimes being attacked makes it harder to change one’s mind and freezes one in old ways of thinking.

    So your path in transcending Scientology is essentially the same as the others, but complicated somewhat by your role as a leader and public figure.

    IMO, you’re doing amazingly well.

  162. Alaska Ron

    Now that’s funny!

    Eric S

  163. The truth is, “getting up the bridge” is an unattainable goal. In fact, there is no longer a top available.

    There are processes you can do, there are abilities you can gain. But the system itself has no finished product.

    In this sense it has become a culture full of traditions and beliefs with members. They are into certain projects and ways of life as a system.

    You are not encouraged to take away from them any knowledge or skills you have gained, as you must remain a member with duties, to come back and have more.

    If you do go out on your own you are classified as “off the bridge”. And filed under “outpoint”. But the bridge is not a bridge, it is a road that never ends.

    The proper way to view ones involvement would take the word “bridge” away altogether now.

    It is a road one walks. The road never ends. It is admitted in the Church now. It goes on and on through OT levels too high to mention.

    There is no end. There is no finished product. Evolution has no cut off point or finality. There is no ceiling or “top” of any mountain.

    Evolution will always be possible through infinity. The idea that there was ever a “top off” or “ceiling” or “final goal” , has been abandoned even by the Church.

    So when Marty writes, “transcend” “Move on up” “Integrate” “Expand”
    he is only saying this is an infinite capability. And WE have infinite capabilities. And there is no brick wall to stand upon at the end of a bridge that has no end. Spiritual enhancement runs through time as a person’s purpose to evolve runs through time.

    Your time is not going to end for evolution in any program in the Church.

    There is NO start change stop in the Church, and I think this is WHY.

    There are lies on this “bridge” “top of the bridge” “end of the bridge” route.

    There is no bridge.

    There is only wide open road. Even in the Church of Scientology.

  164. “…how does he (Marty) think the Scientology movement outside the church should evolve, integrate, transcend?

    One way I see it happening is Marty’s essays about various other books about spiritual enlightment and practices such as Buddhism, Taosism The Secret, etc., and noting the similarities of the basic fundamental truths shared by LRH’s Scientology and these other paths to enlightenment. Differences are also pointed out as well. All is discussed very freely on this blog.

    Lets say someone does some sort of self-help action or has some interest in it, or in a certain book, and does a search on that – conceivably if Marty has written about that book or that practice they could come onto this blog and learn about Scientology in a very open, honest way, in a way which embraces the essential hunger in all of us for truth about who and what we are, etc, in a way which acknowledges the validity of other viewpoints. After all, L. Ron Hubbard did not invent truths, he codified it rather well into a helpful appplied philosophy. It could be a very workable system, LRH said that’s all it was. The problem is that “Scientology” is a dirty word for the majority of the population of earth, if indeed they know the word at all. What can we do, call it something else?

    Many people did the EST training back in the 70’s – it was enormously peopular for a while. They were reaching, searching for truth and understanding about themselves, and maybe they got something out of it but it didn’t really hit the mark for them. Maybe they dropped EST after a while and went back to their original mainstream religion but somehow that spark of curiosity, that hunger to know is still there – wouldn’t we want such people reading this blog, sharing in the free exchange of ideas and opinions which we have here, reaching on their own determinism for some auditing and/or training?

    LRH said, “Don’t overwhelm – PENETRATE”.

    How can one penetrate without acknowledging other viewpoints, accepting the validity of fundamental ruths learned from other sources, without allowing “what is true for you is what’s true” to actually be PRACTICED and not just given lip service?

    I happen to think that getting rid of one’s reactive mind is a very good goal for anyone. Anyone is welcome to agree or disagree with me on that. But if you agree that it would be a good thing, then how CAN it be done other than by attracting as man;y people as possible to what can free them, without gimmicks, without lies, but instead with honesty and ARC – ARC for REAL, not the pasted on, pretend type, but ARC for REAL.

    Indeed, how can people be gotten in comm WITHOUT evoltuion, integration and transcendence effectively occurring? How can people be “kept” on an actual path to THEIR OWN TRUTHS without allowing them to become more and more of themselves, of who they really are, and less and less of who they are not?

  165. Claims such as, “You can reach your full potential” “To reach your full potential” are misleading. There is no top off on that. It is infinite.

    To suggest there is some top off on evolution, or your potential, is actually suppressive.

    There is no ceiling. The Church of Scientology hasn’t even hit one, ever, with one single example.

    Because it is not actually possible.

  166. And this by no means invalidates the benefits to be had with Scientology. But the Church of Scientology and Scientology as a study / method, is not the end of the road.

    It is only the beginning.

  167. Disagree, El Jefe. Miscavige estranged himself from his own family by his NON-practice of Scientology. You need to make a distinction between Scientology the subject and people who call themselves Scientologists, included L. Ron Hubbard.

  168. Right, OM,

    For the non–whales, THE most effective impediment to completing ANY cycle of Scientolgoy Bridge action: “Scientology cannot be delivered in THIS building! We need a new building YESTERDAY. This is YOUR church! Cash or credit card?”

  169. Thanks for the info Marty!
    I think this whole area of attacks on LRH/Scientology pre the IRS exemption needs a close examination to understand the context of the more controvesial policies of the time so they and LRHs mindset can be better understood. I personally would love to hear from any GO guys out there who knew what was going on to speak up, from the 50s on up to when LRH died especially.
    The IRS cycle with dm seems to be a different sort of cycle to me. More like a bureacratic slug fest, but I dont know the background to it.
    Im no lover of any taxation system that makes a slave out of its citizens for 4-6mnths of the year so I dont feel any sympathy for the IRS be it for Scientology or any other organization that gets tax exemption, good luck to them. My point above was that the policies of the time pressured the various agencies, which allowed LRH and Scientology its god given right to exist. Purely the definition of Ethics which is to get tech in.

  170. Agreed, Cat Daddy. What’s true for each of us is ultimately what is true — for me that includes the truth that I must challenge belief with reason, and conviction on any one point with the exploration of alternative explanations.

    What is solid in Scientology will survive. And why hang onto that which cannot pass the test of scrutiny?

    I probably have read all of Ron’s books myself, and listened to most if not all the taped lectures — multiple times on many of them. But the versions I possess are the originals — not the alterations of Miscavige era rewrites.

    I do agree that everyone should read and decide for themselves — as long as they also use strong critical reasoning skills and common sense.

  171. Moneca Ryane writes (talking about this blog): “the subject matter has veered toward personal growth and ascension, away from trauma and drama. Drama is negative, ascension is positive.”
    Ive had the same observation. I find the postings are a lot more interesting than even 6 weeks ago.

    I found really interesting the point that Monte raises about “the goal finder must NOT become the admin management of the practice that the goal finder comes up with.”

    Very interesting topic. Most new religious movements with a contemporary founder deal with this dilemma. If the founder becomes the leader of the practices, suddenly the brilliance that he had demonstrated in the invention of the goal are obfuscated by his human weaknesess in steering the movement. The leader enters into a completely new realm, where his essential competencies play a much lesser role, and where he has to deal with messy situations, where whatever you do, there is a downside.
    In al the new religious movements ive observed, ive seen founders dive headfirst into the leadership the practice, then pull out because they felt trapped and feared losing their inspiration, then dive back in as they were not happy with the other people steering the movement, then pull out again and so on.

    Founders tends to have very lofty views about the limitlessness of their technology and what they believe can be done with it. Then as the inspiration gives birth to an organization, the rubber hits the road and the forces of gravity hit.

    The tug of war between tech and admin, as you call it in Scientology, can be seen across religions, throughout the organizations, and all the way up to founder.
    And I believe every single contemporary founder of religion, as undebated their religious tech may be, is seen as having made very controversial organizational choices.

    Summerwind qrotes “When will we learn that no religion has a monopoly of the truth?” As Gandhi says…: “God does not have a religion.”

    So… back to tolerance, inclusion, integration, to use Marty’s word. Respect, peace, openness, go a long way toward making this planet and more harmonious and peaceful place…My ambition these days is to be able to live one day with appreciation, peace and joy in my heart, all day, from the moment I wake up until the moment I fall asleep. I imagine that if I then can do it one day, I will be able to do it a second ay, and so on…That would be heaven on earth, would it not?

  172. “One question that jumps out is, “How is [it] that LRH had time to write 11 novels, but no time to fulfill his promise – and it does appear to have been a promise – of “a very large number”/”perhaps 15 levels” ?

    And where are the notes?”

    Well, I am gonna stick my neck out of behind the couch on the ready to dodge flying pizzas and bottles… but these are best of questions in that they contain their own answer… provided and given, of course, that one has re-educated and/or regained one’s abitlity to see and hear with one’s thetan eyes and ears…

    See, those books are choke-full of applied tech…

    Has one yet tried to echo-locate oneself like a bat and make the distinction between one moving in a fixed environment vs. a fixed environment moving with respect to oneself? Never mind echo locating oneself with respect to something else moving within either case… which OT level is that drill at?

    This goes together with this oft misinterpreted quote:

    “Competence is above case gain.”

    How does one achieve competence?

    Practice, practice, practice; drill, drill, drill…

    Where does one find those drills to practice; once “above case gain,” that is, in a “native state”?

    Well, me think they all are in books and lectures of the 50s and post 80s… making good on the promise of being free from the $cientology organisation.

    Reading LRH materials, I have grown up envisioning him as being a cross between a sea-wolf, a desert-fox and a weasel… how to hide the X on the map where the treasure is buried?

    Well… as always… right in your face 🙂

  173. Gern Gaschoen

    The point is that I don’t think the amends is complete. Yet.

  174. In short, human beings are full of contradictions, and L. Ron Hubbard was not immune from that imperfection”

    TRUE ! the worse ! All lectures are full of contradictions. Stable datas are always shaken.

    “(…) a Clear is at grave risk as a being if he or she does not get through the OT Levels as soon as possible. Ironically, that warning perhaps serves as the greatest invalidation of the state of Clear, which the Open Letter policy announces shall be considered a crime in itself.”

    I agree. Another enormous contradiction. Scientology wants you to be free and pan determinated but ask you to be completely devoted, obedient and always guilty for not doing enough for the group,

    For my part, scientology is a tool, not a goal…When you have the feeling to be free and in full possession of your mental means, Throw the tool away and enjoy life !

  175. If there was no such intent there on the part of the IRS, then to your knowledge what WAS their actual beef with the COS? It had to be something.
    Earlier, another agency, the FDA, had claimed that their beef was that the E-meter was being used to diagnose physical illnesses. That claim was ridiculous as the courts verified. It was patently stupid. There was obviously some other intent behind confiscating the books and meters.
    So, if no such nefarious intent existed or exists in government with regards the application of auditing tech, that what do you think WAS the IRS’s motivation for going after the COS? They certainly didn’t go after Reverend Ike with a the same fervor..

  176. theosismanides

    Eric thanks. My only interest is to revitalize in Indies that Group Dynamic. There is certainly one and it is alive and it may not be optimum but it does do a LOT of things. We all know what is going on now and we gather around some folks/blogs/facebook groups and kind of act as group members.

    For me Policy is Misunderstood, Misused and many other Mis..(es). The Org Board for example is the Bridge and it has Awareness characteristics. As one ascends on the Bridge he can perform higher actions. He can be all those Departments. When one commits overts he cannot go past the Dept. 3 of Perception…. then he cannot have Orientation, much less Understandings.

    He can’t see and these are basic things.

    For me Scientology ran because there was a Thetan on top overseeing the Organisation (Group). It’s the same as with a body, if the thetan is gone the body can go to pieces. It’s the same with the Group.

    LRH could do that with great ease. The problem is/was that very few people could do that.

    I am not against abandoning all policy if that’s what can be done now. But that is not the optimum solution.

    Just the idea of different Hats could enhance what we are doing. Otherwise we are all doing the same things. That’s the idea of an org board. But I guess it’s too early for that or too late (lol).

    In any case we are moving on. And it is very stupid of people to say this guy is good this guy is bad. We are all in the same shit now and we have somehow to bring it off. There are no evil Independents as far as I can tell. There isn’t anyone who is really EVIL, lol, who is trying to do all others IN. So, we better get our ARC way higher amongst us and not dramatise what we accuse others to have done. Marty has been very open as to what he wants and what he sees. It’s his viewpoint and he helps far more Indies than others did in the last 3 years. I guess a Chaplain (lol) can be of use in such cycles. Repairing ARC breaks, hahaha. In any case the game has started and I will stay on my viewpoint that the more we organize the more we are going to make some inroads. I don’t want to play it smart but it looks like I trust the Org Board more than others. And I have used it to results. So, I am firm on this and I will keep creating this idea till we all see it happening.

    And you know, Eric, to a certain degree, by mere communication it is happening. We are unmockable. We do keep our position in space.

  177. Summary: OT 8 an 9 are supposedly in Davids drawer somewhere. He has chosen not to share with his fellow man the super power rundowns for over two decades.

    Nobody has ever made it, “to the top the bridge”. In 63 years, nobody has made it, “up the bridge”.

    It’s never been done, unless Ron did it.

  178. Hello Marty.i appreciate and love and share your point of view. You can ‘say that you passed from the art of War by Sun Tzu to appreciation of Lao Tzi and his philosophy of Tao. One very promising development, not conflictual, even propaedeutic, with the progress in auditing and OT levels.
    Your post is now translated and published in Italian on my blog, available to all Scientologists who left the GPM “Miscavige is’ the reason – Church of Scientology”
    Good Job, I appreciate your honesty.
    Francesco Minelli

  179. martyrathbun09

    It is complex and spans decades (particularly since you’ve brought other agencies into the mix) and is covered in some depth in my upcoming book. To begin to answer the narrow question about the IRS – by 1981 when I arrived on the scene with them, concerns were Public Policy violations (100,000 pages detailing a dirty tricks department’s acts that was unrivaled in history in its scope), Commercialism (thousands of pages of evidence of Scientology being marketed and promoted like Coca Cola), Inurement (numerous witnesses and documents from insiders attesting to decades of funnelling of millions of dollars to LRH, characterized by its own attorneys as a classic case of ‘inurement, if not fraud’. Those were the issues we had to deal with.

  180. If millions of dollars were funnleed to LRH, he sure didn’t seem to spend much of it. He lived rather frugally from what I can tell.

  181. So true! “Scientology can not be delivered in this building”! David Miscavige never got the basic message in DMSMH. It says there “Function Monitors Structure”. David runs the opposite, “Structures Monitors Function”.

  182. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, as in most of Scientology’s history paradoxes are plentiful.

  183. Hi AZ,

    What a delightful comment. Such refreshing ideas.

    Only pizza and bottles coming your way should be served in your honor.

    And no, I never have tried to echo-locate myself like a bat: I should have thought of that, laugh-at-myself chuckle follows…

    Thanks and please send more comm like this our way!


  184. I agree Eric, and AR your sense of humor is certainly sharpening!
    It’s great to see others, whom I have grown to know a bit and respect through this blog, see the humor in our lives and situations while continuing to grow and expand. Great one.

  185. I think this in itself is a good enough reason to bypass the Church of Scientology. Take your own bridge cycles into your own hands. Truth is, it only costs 50 cents to go clear. Pick up a Dianetics book in a used book store. Go on down to Texas to Marty’s. Co audit. Download check sheets. Buy course packs on Ebay. Just take your own improvement into your own hands. Trust yourself. The purpose of a Church? A long time ago books were not available and most people could not read. So someone with a book showed up and translated. The purpose of a Church is to disseminate information and knowledge. Everyone here can read. Everyone here can get the books, course packs and check sheets. All you need to do is start up again . The road goes on forever and so do you.

  186. Got it Gern. And you obviously are in a position to judge, given your omniscient knowledge of the status of power and conspiracy on this planet.

    I rarely answer a negative with a negative, but in your case I’m making an exception.

    I suggest a small dose of humility would go a long way…

  187. om,
    Damn you’re good.
    “All you need to do is start up again . The road goes on forever and so do you.”
    Simple, effective, profound.
    Great one,

  188. I can’t believe I’m admitting it, but I love the smell of elephants. I actually love elephants in the room! I love these twisty mazes and the math quizzes. I love figuring out the magic tricks. I like getting duped and working through it! I love getting dropped in the jungle and finding my out. I love Earth and all of this gnarly shit! There’s no place else I’d rather be!

  189. This is a thinking thetan’s paradise!

  190. Paul Durand said: “My ambition these days is to be able to live one day with appreciation, peace and joy in my heart, all day, from the moment I wake up until the moment I fall asleep. I imagine that if I then can do it one day, I will be able to do it a second ay, and so on…That would be heaven on earth, would it not?”

    Seems so simple doesn’t it? Appreciation, peace and joy … not usurped by criticism of the guy who cut you off, feeling of wanting to strike back at someone we might have felt slighted us and despair that all is so wrong …

    I find Paul’s ambition a worthy one because it requires daily reaffirmation as well as SPACE in our minds, a keen eye to our own “faults” – which once identified (like anger, jealousy, pride, arrogance, EGO,etc) should be worked with continuously until they diminish … and practice.

    LRH’s work did a great deal to help me overcome parts of my reactivity — as well as taught me a great work ethic — it ALSO for a while created a blindly arrogant person who felt she knew ALL the secrets of the universe and thus could look down on others … including family.

    Interestingly that arrogance appears to be woven into my EGO – such that it’s hard to disentangle even IF I’m lucky enough to spot it …

    It’s a journey …


  191. Hey! Marty is way ahead of us! I’ve just been picking up the clues he has been dropping, and figuring them out!

  192. Thanks!
    Accepts offer and sits on couch to enjoy pizza and refreshment…

  193. You didn’t have to ask. The intent was rather obvious.

    I will defend B. Volta’s right to ask some tough questions, even if this isn’t my blog. I do see Volta’s points, but would have to review the references quoted to get the context and form my own opinion.

    Regarding your comments about Volta’s accomplishments…geez…if we all have to measure up to Ron The Superman before we can engage in critical thought we’re in trouble.

  194. What does it matter whether Marty approves or disapproves what Indies do in the field? If they are practicing a Scn that is real to them AND they are getting results (e.g. happy students/PCs, improved conditions, etc)…well, what more can you ask for?

    Maybe it is the residual effects of years or decades in RCS, that we feel the need to have some type of “organized Scn”, you know, “be on the same page”, concerted effort and all.

    Personally, I kind of like the idea of a de-centralized Scn. Groups that organically form, evolve, grow, shrink, change, and may be even dissolve. Free-range groups.

    With regards to Steve and Marty…I reckon that’s really between them. It’s admirable that you want to see everyone getting along, but it is something that will probably get resolved when it gets resolved.

  195. Theo

    Yes, there are some excellent tools in Scientology policy.

    And, of course the group dynamic can certainly make more inroads into getting something more broadly known and used. And as you say, specialization within a group is one of the things that can potentially make it more efficient. Whenever you have more that just one being working together on anything, some kind of alignment of efforts becomes advantageous.

    Some of the early Missions are good examples of what can be done with a dynamic Thetan in charge and an excellent, trained, staff getting the job done.

    Marty himself has some kind of group in place, however informal it may be. He may or may not be interested in making it much bigger, but dynamic Thetans just attract others that want to assist them with their purposes. To prevent such a situation from naturally growing into some kind of group, one would have to take active steps to avoid it.

    You will eventually have your group if you keep your attention on doing so. Scientology policy itself has tools within it that can assist you in doing so, if applied sanely and on the correct gradient.

    Eric S


  196. “OT VIIIs do not just plateau, they crash and burn, die of cancer, heart attacks, or leave the Church and renounce it all and end up posting on this blog or calling me to tell me the latest Freewinds horror story.”

    Very true. I might also add that in my situation I wonder about the
    $9 million I would have had for retirement.
    George M. White

  197. Paul and Monte

    Yes, “philosopher” is quite a different mindset than “manager” even if the philosopher is philosophizing about “management”.

    It is the same with starting a business. An entrepreneur is usually quite good at starting up a business, but it is often a bad idea to have him continue to run it.

    I believe you guys have something here. Scientology may well have been better served had L. Ron Hubbard just stayed with his hat as “the philosopher” and let others create and run the organizations, with a free hand as to what management tools to use and when.

    Eric S

  198. Hi Statpush,
    The only reason it matters to me is because I like Marty and I thought he was seeing the “Indie feild” as sort of against him . My attempts to help were to try to forward what I percieve Marty’s intentions of getting Scientology out into the world in a helpful form. I think that Indies are helping people even if they have some residual cult think. (Which we all might have including Marty) I think it’s good that Marty points out some of this type of think becaseu it helps to flush it out.

    I do think that a flow can go too long in one direction however and must be balanced. Also if you truly wnat to help someone wake up, I feel you still need to remain in ARC with them. This is where I think Marty is falling short.

    I guess I will give up on trying to reconcile old friends. Maybe it’s a bad habit from being a Chaplain and EO. Since this is a blog where we go to give opinions, that is why I posted also.

    I don’t want us to all be on “the same page”. I can see many denominations of Scientology moving forward in a sense. Different “camps” so to speak. I just don’t like seeing one camp bash another camp for too long. Maybe because Marty has his own blog and good ratings that it seems he is doing more harm to the Indies that I feel are well intentioned, that he should back off a bit. That is just my opinion.

    I think if people are brainwashed to varrying degrees that the wrong thing to do is to force things down thier throats. People will wake up in their own time. As a side note about integrating, I know an Indie who will go unnamed, who got a non Scientologist into the auditing chair and the guy is totally blown out and has now learned to audit others. The Indie is very much a “fundamentalist” from my point of view, but nonetheless was able to get a non Scientologist very keyed out.

    You said: “Personally, I kind of like the idea of a de-centralized Scn. Groups that organically form, evolve, grow, shrink, change, and may be even dissolve. Free-range groups.” I love that statement and agree with it one hundred percent.

    I guess the thing that bugs me about Steve Hall and Marty is that they are both intelligent and caring people. The fact that they seemingly can’t even be in some degree of ARC is hard for me to think with. Hey, sue me for caring.

  199. Can’t wait for your next book, Marty!

    However, I would like to see the real WHY. The WHY you presented is the attacks. That is not the WHY because I can keep asking questions and in fact I am asking here: WHY the attacks? Why were they attacking, banning, raiding and bad-mouthing LRH and Scientology? Could it be that that was because LRH was generalizing, marginalizing and head-on attacking governments, psychiatry, Christianity, all non-Scientologists (the wogs), all other practices (some of them thousands of years old and in fact leaps and bounds more effective than Scientology in producing OTs–but not uniformly so) and even Scientologists who had other views or even those who heavily contributed to the creation of the Tech? Was it because he was lying about being a PhD and a few other things? It could be. But WHY would he want to do that? The answer to that question is the real WHY, not the attacks.

    Marty, I would like to thank you profusely for outgrowing Scientology and having the guts to illuminate the process on your blog. You lost a whole bunch of contributors who never had spiritual growth as their main objective. Simultaneously, you retained some contributors and gained some new ones. You are now surrounded by the true seekers.

    The go-word is CHANGE.

    I would like to recommend a wise little book to everybody entitled WHO MOVED MY CHEESE? by Spencer Johnson. Would only take an hour to read and available for download free on-line.


  200. martyrathbun09

    Tony, I wish you would park perceived conflicts that you know little about. I don’t go personal because I don’t want to play their game. I could easily discredit some people in a rather serious way as they attempted to do with me. But, I choose not to play that game. Instead of play the discredit game, I use the experience to learn and continue to attempt to wake folk up and get them the move on up a little higher. You sit here and imply about how unreasonable I am – when I reached out to the terminal in question – and he, IN FACT, chose to disconnect yet again. You can play word games and like a 1.1 literalist argue that the word was never uttered. It was practiced and is still in practice. Period. I could easily compromise my integrity and lead a magnificent charge of a bunch of half awake cultists; and profit handsomely by doing so. I could also easily play another reversal that I think you might still be falling prey to. That is, ARC is a wonderful little construct by which to increase understanding. After a bit of use it it ought to become rather intuitive. To the degree it is, it is a useful lesson. But, in practice it becomes a robotic, sophmoric tool of control and keeping people in the mental prison pen. I have a rather serious break in reality with certain folk. All the indicating in the in the world doesn’t get us to hold hands and sing kumbaya. I choose to have that break in reality. If they choose to hold onto cultic think and cultic practices, and condemn people for refusing to continue to play that infantile game, that is their perorgative, and thus that reality chasm will continue to widen. That is because rather than compromise my widening reality by adopting a narrow-minded compromise to appease some cult congeniality, for the folk on the other side of the break’s sake, I keep moving on. Hope this will end this false allusion to my alleged lack of understanding and ability to apply the construct of A, R, C, U. Stripping down cult think is sort like onion skin peeling.

  201. martyrathbun09

    Thanks, you got a point there. However, to discount the attacks entirely would lead to lessened understanding. I was just reading last night in another book, having nothing to do with Scientology, about AMA/FDA/APA attacks on Chiropractic, and a number of ‘considerations take precedence over matter, energy, space and time’ practices in the 50s and 60s. Quite frankly, chiropractic may not be the accepted practice it is today had they not taken a page from L. Ron Hubbard’s playbook. Reductionist science is still – to this day – far too influential in the healing arts and sciences, and far too ignorant of and antagonistic to more spiritual approaches, in my opinion.

  202. Hey Marty, I really like you said that.

  203. Is this elephant on the endangered species? He might
    need to be protected, preferably in an RPF environ.

  204. It certainly is a thetan’s paradise. Particularly when Marty is so willing to help you mine your mind, if you don’t mind.

    Sometimes I just tickle myself. I rarely used to do that.

  205. morelivesthanacat

    Marty, I enjoyed these last few exchanges.
    Your purposes have always been quite clear.
    I’m glad, and not surprised, that you’re not in the least inclined to take on the cross-purposes of others, well intended or otherwise.
    You remind me of someone, and you’ll be surprised to know who it is.
    I’ll send you an email.

  206. Thanks for the info Marty.
    I was just operating off of the data that I had.
    I was thinking about something someone said above and I do still have a pretty good sized urge for a third dynamic. In my 3-D I wouldn’t want everyone on the same page and it would and does include someone like you. My perception was that you were sort of hurting the third dynamic a bit and that is what I was trying to handle. Maybe I was out of line? My mind set was sort of like, I could help take some responsibility for this.
    I don’t do debriefs with you very often so sorry if I stepped on your toes man. I also feel that there is a third dynamic here whether we all want one or not. For those who would like to see the tech progress forward in some beneficial form. I am in that category.
    It’s a nice day here in Seattle. Blue skies and birds. Life is good.
    Have a good one Marty.

  207. p.s.
    I think giving specifics can help sometimes so people know what is going on and it can reduce dev-t. 🙂

  208. Yikes — that’s a bundle George — you paid $9 million dollars to the church — for services and straight donations

    Or are you considering inflation as well as potential investments.

    $9 million makes you one of the top donors pre-1990

  209. Amzer

    You may find it interesting that there are a few blind people who move about in their environment using echo-locating. There is even one guy who rides his bicycle around in the streets, and has yet to have any but very minor accidents. To do this, I would have to guess that he fulfills all of your parameters. These guys have trained themselves to click their tongues and listen for changes in the echo that comes back. Quite amazing.

    Yes, one key to competence is “Practice, practice, practice; drill, drill, drill…” but I would add that you also need good perception, good duplication, good data concerning the area of competence, and a good ability to evaluate that data.

    Eric S

  210. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    Yes, this is a very nice phrase, but as soon as you apply it you are sent to wordlearing, cramming, ethics, disagreement check or are thrown out !
    At the end I just consider it as the best sales gimmick ever invented !
    Sad ! But it is so !

  211. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    LOL…..Very clear answer !

  212. You wrote: “Miscavige’s elevation of L. Ron Hubbard to God-like status, and himself to demigod status, has provided Miscavige with carte-blanche to reverse the entire vector of Scientology’s aims and activities.”

    Where does the need for deifying come from, and it sure isn’t limited to Scientology?

  213. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. Two lines removed from your post because – and for the life of me I cannot understand why – you again bring up personal matters, and invite further comment with an ‘if it is true’ caveat to my comm. I am not going to let this otherwise ascending forum be dragged down into cultic ego battles, particularly those involving parasites. One of the problems with the Scientology cult mind is that it is so implanted with so much authoritarian crap that is so contrary to the actual technology (axioms and factors and logics and the processes that are consistent with them) they walk around in a state of acute cognitive dissonance. For example, all this rah,rah ‘third dynamic’ stuff creates beings stuck or even regressed into ethno-centric awareness. Ok, a little background. Three levels of development recognized by many spiritualists as phases we all go through (based on thousands upon thousands of hours of research) – if we graduate one to the next are: a) ego-centric (only aware of self with little to no care for others), b) ethno-centric (an awareness and some level of care for one’s groups – be it family, friends, schoolmates, cult mates, race, etc), and c) world-centric (universal care and concern – and action to demonstrate it). Scientologists tend to be so socked into ‘b’ that i) higher levels of consciousness development is impossible, and ii) they lose sight of Hubbard’s TECHNICAL utterances in favor of his ego-centric and ethno-centric dictates and appeals to emotion and duty. What I am referring to on the 3rd dynamic is this. LRH once made a very technical, factual observation in the lecture entitled Marriage from the State of Man Congress about groups. He noted that they do not exist natively for beings. They are merely a creation of agreement. They only exist as far as agreements exist among it’s ‘members.’ I happen to believe that is his most factual, accurate and sane take on the subject. Finding it to be truthful and accurate, I reject acceptance of notions to the contrary, whether uttered by LRH or God herself. So, when you talk of hurting some ‘third dynamic’, please rest assured I am not harming any third dynamic that I am part of. I am done with cults, incorporated or otherwise.

  214. martyrathbun09


  215. Wow, thats a good answer.

  216. martyrathbun09

    This entire thread is dev-t. Again, did you have a single thought on the substance of the issue raised in the post that I noted had “far-reaching implications?”

  217. Sapere Aude

    Gern – No amends is even due or needed. You want to play the amends game then you have to be part of the RCS group agreement. I don’t think there are many on this blog in that group agreement. You seem to continually look at the past “track” of the RCS group. We are in the present and discussing a new and better future. If you agree with the ethics formulas, including amends, then why do you post here. If you are seeking personal understanding and closure then why not just decide to end cycle on that past group agreement. Life can be good, and not in a theetie weetie way.

  218. As I mentioned I recently discovered this new (for me) young Tibetan teacher …

    It seems that what Marty has been emphasizing of late — in various different ways – quoting various different teachers —

    Exactly this:

    “As a practitioner, if you ask “Why am I so emotional? Why do I have so much judgement mind? Why am I so moody?” It’s because you are not reconfirming egolessness baby!” -Phakchok Rinpoche

  219. Elephant In The Room … indeed! Excellent post!

  220. I think the old boxes, which we could also call labels or judgments, are just part of an authoritarian control structure we need to outgrow. For me, this blog is helping me expand my awareness and is really validating my own thoughts and decisions.

  221. One of the fundamental vulnerabilities inherent in Enlightenment is the tendency to convert Free Consciousness into a religious identity that only serves those at the top of the hierarchy. Yet any such manipulative identity system will ultimately destroy the group and those at the top.

    Religious indoctrination is paradoxically a form of initiation-over-time into a binding identity that becomes a form of enslavement to the group and its leader.

    As one become identified with the organization and loses their own determinism, one goes the effect of the organization and gradually loses whatever enlightenment they had or experienced.

    The loss of Enlightenment brings about an even greater suffering than one had before they were Enlightenment.

    This great suffering occurs because one knows what it is they lost. But as one is so heavily identified with the the organization, they blame their suffering on having failed the organization.

    Thus, they come to think that becoming radicalized on behalf of the organization is the path of return to Enlightenment.

    The Church of Scientology long ago traded Enlightenment for an identity filled with wrath, screaming, and meaningless symbols. This is why the Church now finds itself in a state of spiritual poverty so intense that it embraces mere buildings as substitutes for Enlightenment.

    These buildings, these Ideal Orgs, have turned to dust in David Miscavige’s mouth and all Church members are now choking on them.

  222. windhorse,
    I am considering inflation and stock market investments when the market
    was below 500. I started donating in 1973. I am also considering the
    idea of ‘opportunity cost’ – moving to Clearwater Florida and giving
    up a career on Wall Street which is where I found Scio on
    5th avenue in New York City. I carefully did the math with my two children
    when they asked me to explain it. They were very curious about
    the financial end of it when the internet started to talk about Xenu.
    While my total investment in scio was in the $250,000 range, a 30x
    rise in stock prices alone gets you to $7.5 million. Actually, my children
    came up with a figure of $12 million, but I cut it down.
    George M. White

    PS Also, I wrote a lot of letters to Ron Hubbard in those days explaining
    my investment strategies. He usually replied by saying something
    like “the auditing is an excellent investment”. Well, I’m still waiting
    for my wife’s refund check from “Flag” after “declare”.

  223. Marty: I love where you are going. The ones that don’t like it just need to be OUT of Scientology a bit longer! They are still under the “spell” of control – bad control at that. You have the right to speak freely, think freely and write freely! Good for you and continue!

  224. Elephants. Nice essay Marty. I have read but a few of your blogs but I like the exact turf you have staked out and your address of matters. In your future work along that line I have two events to offer for your consideration. The first is (and admitt it was a hobby horse of mine once) was the 1977? F.O. empowering the CMO …it went on to the effect that when they(CMO member) spoke it was the same as if he had spoken. Prior to that they were just messengers one always knew when it was from the Boss or just something they wanted to originate. The message you lpaid attention to, the later was, well easily ignored. But I am pretty sure you got that one covered. The next is a little more obscure..to us but I am absolutly certian it was not to LRH. Did you ever reflect on the fact that at the exact time frame LRH was publishing Dianetics Whilhelm Reich (spelling?) was being raked over the coals buy the federal government. And I think it was in 1951 that this fine, gentle, original thinker had his books burned and he was chucked into prision.He died there a few years later.

  225. CD,

    If you swear an oath of fealty to me, the only thing I will require of you is perfect adherence to my protocols. Then you can dwell in my divine presence forever.

    If you cannot adhere to my protocols, fear not! I’ll let you try over again – forever.

  226. Thank you Karen for:

    Hubbard’s fatal flaw was way way too much punishment written in policy by own his hand. HCO Policy Letter of 5 January 1968, “Overfilled In-Basket, Bad News.” LRH says:

    This HCO PL, and the specific words used, are the spawning grounds for violence by a totalitarian organization.

    Maybe someone should go through all the materials and find those seed ideas that has led to this moment. This moment is a reflection of those words. And only those words.


  228. I am hearing you OracleMysticism.

  229. ThetaPotata

    You stated, “Stumbling onto disagreements between independents is like finding a turd in a punchbowl.”

    Yes, there is definitely some truth in that, but perhaps look at it this way.
    The fact that there are some differences gives one the opportunity to view the different viewpoints involved and sort it out for oneself.

    Do you want to be audited or trained by a person who holds this viewpoint, or do you want to be audited or trained by a person who holds that one, or does it really even matter to you one way or the other?

    The value in all this is not in choosing sides, it is in taking advantage of the opportunity to evaluate the data available and in making your own decision.

    Yes, it is a drag on some level that “the Independents” are “not all in total agreement”, but it would be quite frightening if we were. The only way that would happen is if we were all totally fixated on something that we were not able, or willing, or at liberty, to evaluate for ourselves.

    Been down that road. Not that interested in pursuing it further.

    Eric S

  230. Oraclemysticism I just have to say I enjoy your ability to take a real hard look up close and personal.

    Thank you, it’s invigorating to listen to.

  231. Theetie wheetie writes: “You have the right to speak freely, think freely and write freely! ….continue!” It brought me to think: “and then when one reaches the point of speaking freely, thinking freely and writing freely, what does one do with this freedom?”

    Then i came to think of Bronnie Ware. She is an Australian nurse who spent several years working in palliative care, caring for patients in the last 12 weeks of their lives. She recorded their dying epiphanies in a blog called Inspiration and Chai, which gathered so much attention that she put her observations into a book called “The Top Five Regrets of the Dying.” which became a best-seller.

    In her book, she identifies give things that people invariably regret as they are about to die. When I read these it touches me deeply. I have printed them, and put them on the wall, next to my desk.

    Here are these 5 things that people most regret when they are about to die.
    1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.
    2. I wish I didn’t work so hard
    3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings
    4. I wish I had stayed in touch with those that are dear to me
    5. I wish that I had let myself be happier

    My hope is that when I about to die, I do not regret any of these. I wish that, looking back, I will see myself as having lived a life true to myself, where I had the courage to express my feelings, where I stayed in touch with those that are dear to me, and most of all, where I have let myself be as happy as life wanted me to be happy.

    Sounds simple… try it… its challenging. I still feel too much of my life be dictated or influenced by society or by other people, including those people that I don’t like or resent, i.e I let my mind be occupied thinking about them. And I still spend days without telling those I love that I love them. And , because of all that, I still experience less happiness than life wants me to experience each day. The clock is ticking… Every day Im given to live is to get closer to this, and I have no idea how many of these days are left. Will I take in today all the beauty, wisdom, that life has in store for me? It’s one day at a time, and it’s all up to me…
    Love to all

  232. After saying all that you guys have, I only have one question on my mind:
    did you guys (whoever it applies to) spot the third party responsible for this lengthy … whatchamacallit.

    It’s just what’s on my mind and I could be wrong, but I can just feel it.

  233. Regarding those IRS allegations of decades of Inurement by funnelling millions of dollars to LRH, was this alleged to be money in addition to and beyond the book royalties he was due as an author? I had always understood that he only received royalties from his writing.

  234. I just can’t shake the feeling that we are underestimating the critter. Don’t get me wrong there was plenty of ‘right place’ and ‘right time’ involved there, but by definition he is just doing what a parasite does. Just happened to have found the mother load of hosts. Plenty of blood to suck. That’s all I see. A parasite does not do well without a juicy host. The juicier the host the fatter the parasite gets. The inability to acknowledge that he is good at what he does is dangerous. Especially since him and other parasites like him managed to suckle off of LRH who was very aware of this parasitic behavior. I see the most serious lesson to be learned from this. (just my $1 – 98 cents)

  235. Damn I wish it was that simple. For some they are still under the spell of control but for others “they are the control”. And then there are all sorts of shades in between. (JMO)

  236. Alright now

    Omar V Garrison’s book “The Hidden Story of Scientology” first published in 1974 goes into a lot of detail about the attacks on LRH and Scientology starting from within a few weeks of the publication of DMSMH.

  237. My suggestion would be to grant beingness as much as possible and help the Indie auditors as much as possible.” Tony.

    Seriously? Who was able to come and here and audit in the open before Marty took all the heat for four years? Marty went to Germany and granted the government beingness. Mike went to Ireland and granted beingness to an entire University of critics. Marty and Mike permit people “in doubt” about Scientology to be curious, open up and question on their blogs. Marty has been out here auditing for four years as an INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. Marty has built a platform here for four years for Independent auditors to give their views and offer their help and service.

    He was accused of being a squirrel, leaning on “other practices” because he READS, and assigned lower conditions for all of the above.


    The witch hunters are kind of fucking spooky to me. Domination.

    Everyone has been doing just fine with out having to see some blood spilled over here. Suddenly someone gets itchy and the daggers come out and then you turn around and you have knife wounds from the back of your neck down to your ass.

    Sanity is ASSISTING things which ASSIST survival and INHIBITING thing which INHIBIT survival. That is definition #7 in the tech dictionary.

    The “justice cycles”, investigations, declares, disconnections, back stabbing, and fair gaming is part of another culture most of us stepped away from because we did not want to mock it up. That it is being mocked up ALL OVER AGAIN out here is kind of scary.

    Actually the people out here all across the boards on every forum in this entire theater that really have ill will towards Marty can be counted on two hands.

    That is a plus point. Not an outpoint.

    The fundamentalists are just practicing their own religion and God Bless them.

    Most people here, against the backdrop of recent history, are more or less bypassing normal and routines as the condition and value of Scientology is in danger of vanishing.

    If others want to proceed in normal that’s a personal choice.

    Some people are bypassing normal habits and routines while others are trying to make sure nothing changes. No need to start gobbling up the people and attacking the ones doing a danger condition. You can’t be doing both at once. Bypassing normal habits and routines while standing in the way of change.

    Doesn’t mean you have to choose friends, unless this is some doubt formula you are doing here?

  238. Why not go admire Hitler then? I hear ya, he is dead. Oh arright. Well there is always DM. C’mon let’s use some sense with these quotes.

  239. “All I see is that other Indies are doing some things. They all seem to have different ideas and are doing it to the best of their abilities and you seem to be somewhat critical of that.”

    Maybe you should reread his post Tony. He has never fair gamed to attacked “The Indies”. WE are the Indies. He said, “why there was so much noise in the independent field about my scary,….”

    I heard the rumor yesterday! “Marty is drifting into “other practices” now.” I didn’t hear it in a bad way either, the person telling me he heard it, reads books too! He GRANTS BEINGNESS to others even though they are not Scientologists!

    Listen, when you are on staff in an Org, what you do effects all of the other staff.

    Some people haven’t figured out they are not still living in those conditions. I am paying my own bills and what I think or read is not effecting your Thursday at 2:00 stats.


  240. Hallelujah Sister! I’m moving over to your table.

    As the tone level of the blog rises some people drift away. But new people also show up as the tone level goes up. A lot of new lurkers under the radar, people blown off lines looking to come back onto the bridge now. A LOT! People contacting me because of this blog. GREAT PEOPLE! A lot of uptone very successful people. Who vanished like, decades ago! Oh yeah, they are here and they are watching and listening.

  241. scilonschools

    “In my opinion, nowhere is literalism and extremism more destructive than at the highest reaches of the Bridge, the OT levels.”

    Corruptio optimi pessima

  242. martyrathbun09


  243. martyrathbun09

    I did. He didn’t.

  244. That was HUGE of you to cover XXXXXXXXXX’s ass!

  245. Again, That was HUGE of you to cover XXXXXXXXXX’s ass!

  246. Laughter! Let’s admire DM.

  247. LAUGHTER! LAUGHTER! LFBD! Summon up “Elephant in the room” ……. That was a good one for general T.A.! LAUGHTER MY RIBS HURT!!!!!!!!!!! STOP! STOP! PLEASE STOP!

  248. Actually, catholoc priests in europe asked for prayers for the lost soul of Adolf Hitler. It’s a tough one. But a great lesson in Love and Forgivness. Hate make you stuck on the time-track.

  249. Thanks for the explanation.

    I think that kind of thinking gets a person into the “if only” “I wish I did this” frame of mind.

    If I hadn’t gotten into scientology I probably would have been discovered at Schwab’s Drugstore in Hollywood while sipping a cherry coke (JUST kidding).

    But seriously isn’t it rather impossible to determine HOW much money you would have had — lots of things could have happened but the most important is to remember that it is YOUR causes and conditions (karma) that has brought you to your place in Florida, your wife, your children and whatever perceived lack or not of finances you currently have.


  250. Hate never stuck me on the time track. But love was a mother fucker.

  251. Love can conquer hate real fast.

  252. Not that I think anyone here really hates anyone else. I doubt if anyone here even hates DM. I think we are all just a little bit dissapointed.

  253. Nothing is sacred regarding investigation. Bringing up the past is a valid and essential pursuit when truth is concerned.

    Being stuck in the past is not valid.

    Refusing the past or denying the past may be proof of being stuck in it.

    Scientology’s past must be uncovered fully

  254. And your name isn’t there because you didn’t want to be inconvenienced.
    How convenient.

  255. What about your amends? If you had stepped up it all would have worked out alright, except you didn’t. Easy to be hard.

  256. martyrathbun09

    You are mocking up opposition just as intensely as the church has in the past.

  257. Not name calling, I can simply understand peoples interest in your past Marty. Absorb and release. That is how I take the bringing up of mt issues.

    Nothing can harm us. Our enemies and friends are our greatest teachers

  258. martyrathbun09

    If you cannot appreciate my efforts to share it fully, then all I can advise you is to find yourself.

  259. Christine,
    I am actually very grateful for the position I hold in just being alive
    after the scio experience. Every time I donated a large sum to
    scio, it was the satisfaction of “hope” over good financial sense.
    It is impossible to calculate the exact retirement fund I would
    currently have. However, in the Theravada tradition, kamma or
    karma is not a total condition. There are natural forces and also
    certain volitions which lead to formations. Thus it is possible in
    this case for me to analyze the events from a deeper perspective.
    When Ron Hubbard entered the realm of large donations,
    he turned the organization over to the “rules of business”.
    These rules are brutal. A product is produced or it is
    a failure.
    One of the amazing things about Theravada is that you need
    to exert an effort to donate. No monk will accept a gift at first
    try. You need to persist.
    It is sort of the reverse of the “reg cycle”.
    George M. White

  260. Hi Marty

    I noticed from my skim read of the comments above that your invitation to discuss the “far-reaching implications” of your Chapter 13 appeared to have not been taken up or speculated upon.

    I’m not any kind of Scientologist, Independant or otherwise, so I struggle to think in the way that you might.

    If the path beyond clear (whatever that is) is mired in 3rd dynamic cultism as a result of Hubbard policy, then to avoid that one must either abandon the subject or abandon the policy.

  261. I agree that there is a degree of fear and a thin thread of paranoia that weaves itself throughout the subject both inside and outside the church. IMO, it has taken on a life of it’s own and is cult-like like Marty says. To me, it in no way resembles the basic truths of Scientology and it is the ONLY reason there may never be a cohesive group in the Indy world.

    Yes, I know there are real dangers but, if no one can trust anyone, how can anything occur? That includes trusting people to come to their own conclusions that are true for them.

    It’s easy to ball people up into some category, instead of using your powers of differentiation and decide what you agree with and disagree with with that person and move on.

    That’s what I get out of this post. Differentiation is the key and the alternative can have far reaching bad effects.

    Cool, thanks!

  262. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for being the first. I don’t know that it is a complete either/or proposition, but you are right onto a critical issue. Several weeks ago I attempted to raise the issue of ‘where does one draw the line with policy’. That discussion degenerated into a rather vicious attacks on me by the very best Indies. I have persisted since in fishing for interest. That no one seems interested in the issues raised, as you note by lack of response to my repeated invitations, I think you are hitting upon the nerve of fear of those involved for very long in Scientology. Where I have gone and where I am going is toward heightening the skill of differentiation between what works and what doesn’t? Laura Ann hit the nail on the head on that score in this thread.

  263. martyrathbun09

    You are right on the money that differentiation is the key.

  264. I have always wondered in the back of my mind how much the worry about lack of time influenced LRH and his policy. I have an article from the July 1965 Auditor Journal called FIVE YEARS. In it LRH says the world has an optimistic five years left, a pessimistic two. After that, Bang or maybe just a whisper.
    If he felt like he was in a race against time to “beat Deadline, Earth” I would think this would have a real bearing in a serious way on some of his policy of that time period.

  265. martyrathbun09

    A huge bearing. Gets kind of complicated when really the end product of Scientology in my view was stated by LRH most accurately in A Summary of Scientology, Creation of Human Ability 1954, as able to recognize and realize: “CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY AND TIME.”

  266. Thanx Karen. Yup, DM is a creature of LRH’s reactive mind.

  267. A != A: “Why not go admire Hitler then? I hear ya, he is dead. Oh arright. Well there is always DM. C’mon let’s use some sense with these quotes.”

    My common sense tells me that the application any particular principle of Scientology depends on the situation. The Factor about admiration is the probably the best basis of operation in most instances. With Hitler or DM, the Code of Honor would be applicable, IMO.

    Actually, admiration being “the very substance of a comm line” ties it in with the ARC triangle – which can also be used abusively, or beneficially for the greatest good. But the mechanics of ARC seem to go into play willynilly for most people most of the time, even the relatively enlightened ones, so I don’t discount it very easily. That’s where I was coming from.

  268. Yes,

    If one puts one’s attention on shit, one will find an awful lot of shit…

    When one creates policies designed to spot and fight enemies, one will spend a lot of time dealing with enemies. When one then goes one step further and locks those policies in with further, and “unalterable” policies”, then fighting will inevitably become the order of the day… forever! or at least until the last man is down. Freedom is no longer possible.

    If policy cannot be changed, the person or organization insisting on using it can not, and will not be able to change. Whatever the policy in question be, that is a death sentence in this universe.


  269. Wayne, I’ll take a stab at explaining the theory in hopes of at least answering your question.

    When it comes to the subject of Scientology Ethics, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

    There is HCO PL Conditions, How to Assign (see the full reference in the OECs – Volume 1 and probably in Volume 0), which essentially states that you simply assigned the condition. That is sometimes necessary because juniors can be unaware that they are in a condition below Normal and therefore may not be doing anything about it to the detriment of themselves and others. It’s a stop gap because ethics conditions below Normal can constitute a blind spot. HOWEVER, that has to be taken in light of HCO PL Ethics and Executives (also known as Exec Series 12 or the “3 May PL”) in which LRH further elaborates that, irrespective of whatever Ethics condition someone has been assigned, that person’s executive has a responsibility to not leave the guy with what could well seem to him to be a wrong indication (which would of course worsen things rather than lead to a proper resolution of that for which the guy was assigned the condition in the first place). It outlines a procedure the executive can walk the guy through and up to seeing that he’s at least in condition of Danger, if only by virtue of the fact that someone has assigned him some condition, ostensibly by-passing his own self-determinism if nothing else.

    If the guy IS in fact in Danger, he will see it for himself in the course of that procedure and the executive continues to work with him until the guy is up to Normal. Conversely, if the condition assignment is in fact just a wrong indication, there is HCO PL Repair of Past Ethics Conditions to remedy that.

    Proper application of the panoply of tools available by a caring person can produce life-changing results. The abuse comes in where condition assignments are used to nullify and dominate others and/or failure to follow up such an assignment with the other tools necessary to ensure the result is a win with VGIs, if only by indicating the wrong indication. Such abuses are exacerbated by failure to bring to heel whoever is using condition assignments in an abusive manner.

  270. Me, too.

  271. Thank you for sharing this. I have been thinking a lot on these lines lately. I guess I am feeling close to the subject of death because of my parents being close to death. But it is true what we do not know how many days we have left and it is so important to cherish each one and treat others in a way that shows how much we care. I also allow thoughts from negative people to clutter my mind.
    Have been reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying as recommended by someone on this blog and that has been interesting. I would be interested in hearing anyone’s between-lives experiences and how they ended up getting to their current life.

  272. Very well stated.

  273. Thank you, Marty, understood that there was component of external hostility.

  274. Push the button untill it’s flat, Oh and I kmow about the we area all gods thing with creative power. But we are creating our space bumping up up to others creating space for themselfs and creating.

    Post the wholw thing nhere and will promisse you to read it.

    Oh and Putin vistid my country, that little dictator kan kiss my behind

  275. Psychopaths will float to the service in states of turmoil and war, like with the banking crime oh I ment crisis of course.

  276. I wouldn’t recommend anyone to force admiration as it has a tendency to open a big can of worms if the subject is not selected right. Everyone deserves an attempt of my ARC and in return I should deserve theirs. In reality however some people have hidden agendas and will not let you have ARC with them. You can try to communicate all you want with them, if they alter-is your communication you will not have ARC. In such a situation trying to admire would be flat out foolish. (IMO)
    When communication is out it will collapse the other two. You will have no reality even if you want to without comm. and who can have affinity after such? And for what? So they can alter-is your words more?

    The way I see it Marty has been falsely accused of not working enough on ARC with certain individuals.

    All I would like to see is people making an effort to double check their facts and sources. It is in the nature of certain individuals to alter-is. But they do it covertly because they know that if their cover is blown then they can’t alter-is so well (or at all) any more. That would be very troublesome to them because that’s all they know how to do.

    When they get busted they pretend to be a little angel. They will say something like this:
    “Well, that’s not what happened (alter-is again right there), all I was trying to do is help.” (alter-is)
    “It is the other guy that’s causing all this.” (alter-is) (Then produce some tears at will if the situation calls for it.)

    We all (or most) must have had at least one kid we knew in our childhood who did that. They instigate and get a fight, then deny it all when they get attention from the teacher. C’mon people let’s get real with this shit! Some just never grow out of it.

    Try spotting the ‘who’ in the background that’s causing the conflict.
    The one who cries isn’t always the ‘hurt’ one.
    Try not to be so quick to jump on the band wagon without knowing where it is going and where hell it came from.

    Tony has been third partied. This is how the shady ones get their work done by others. They set up good guys with their illusions to get involved in conflicts. Alter-is is a very powerful tool some people use covertly. They will have you convinced they are the good guys and before you know it you are out working for them doing their dirty work.
    We constantly underestimating these guys since they are covert.
    The definition of covert means you can’t see it directly. You have to be willing to look for signs.

    So please read the signs and don’t try to unload this admiration bull shit onto Marty. Isn’t it enough that one guy has been been set up to falsely accuse Marty already? Or have you been third partied also?

    Personally I think that when Marty posts something which clears up alter-is about him and his direction, he is not only way within his rights but is also doing the rest of us a favor by exposing those in the alter-is business.

    In any conflict there is always a third party. But what’s the third party doing? Alter-is-ing right? Lying! By extension I would have to say that behind any conflict there are one or more lies.

    I have not seen Marty alter-is a single datum yet! Not a one.

    So please look for the alter-is in the other camp and tell them to change. (good luck with that BTW)

  277. More elephants To Sid and Marty. I dropped a little thought in there…the empowering of the CMO around 1977 and then on the side of how the wagons got circled a very light one…just a historical backgound picture pointing out that just as LRH embarked on his publication of Dianetics and the publicly scrutinized journey he was about to take. there was a bloody head on a pike, Dr. Reich’s,, another nonconformist and he was taken out rather easily.
    As for the CMO policy I mentioned, well it was a disaster..but here I have to add that there was possibly a slim silver linning that out weighted the harm it caused when he went off the lines. And that is this: the church did survive and it was a horrendous period of major difficulties in the late 70’s into the earlyand mid 80’s. FBI raid on cedars, mary Sue and the IRS capers, Quentins death, Inital Clearwater plans a bust not to mention the discovery that more serious work was required on the bridge. and of course his health. .It just may have been that he judged it would take a real SOB to at least hold things togeather.. It is very tough to second guess big players like LRH. and so I add he may have been correct..at least to the kind of persons it would take to ride those external storms out….But from my study, expierence and heart I can tell you absoluty he never imagined that matters could get to where they have. That otherwise bright and motivated senior SO members, so bright and so SELF determined could be hammered into submission! But they were and thats that. He was lied to and betrayed and yes he was human, just like you and just like me…all good bad and indifferent included for all of us…it is just that the work he did has lasting and very real value to mankind…thats why we are talking about it.I Have given an example of a very small elephant, there are bigger of course but in some future time I think they will just be uninteresting reflections of no particular import.

  278. Hate is really the far left of the scale and it is not helpful to be anywhere near that end even with regards to Hitler. However there are plenty of other spots on the scale between hate and admiration. I would consider being stuck at any end of that scale might have its tolls. One thing is for sure: I don’t think anyone should be telling Marty to park himself on the far right of that scale with regards to people who oppose him.

    This is not a matter of view here.
    This is a matter of beingness.
    Marty is in the business of is-ness and as-is-ness.
    Some people (he who should not be mentioned) are int the business of
    not-isness and alter-isness. But pretend to be in the same business as Marty.
    (Of course there are other combinations also)

    These are two opposing attitudes who’s presence and roots go back to the beginning of times. At the bottom there are those who mostly as-is (no lies) and those who alter-is (lies mostly). The later can be so much into alter-is that they will also alter-is who they are. Which is that they will say they are not liars when in fact they are. They will even alter-is self. IMO nos-is-ness and is-ness are products of as-is-ness and alter-is-ness. To put it in simple terms I believe that underneath of consciousness the building blocks are elemental lies and truths.

    I for one do not expect Marty to open his arms wide to those who are in the alter-is band. I am not into the whole hold the other cheek idea. Better yet hold the other wrist: “here drive the next nail here please”.
    I’m more of a “burn me once it’s your fault, burn me twice it’s mine” type of guy and I think it is perfectly sane to be that way.

    I think Marty can park himself wherever he pleases on the hate-to-admire scale with regards to those who alter-is frequently. Clearly he is not at any of the far ends of the scale with regards to them so I escapes me how some people have the audacity to reprimand him.

    (All this is JMO)

  279. ever tought that some beings are not protocol bound ?

  280. “Hubbard tried to write off the ones heading south, but his compassion kept bringing him back to the challenge of “how to crack the case”.”

    Oracle in the business of nailing again. This time with a nail gun.

    That is such a key and spot on statement. This is possibly THE why behind SC getting derailed. Him going after the unhandled case and trying to help. Finally even allowing the alter-is-ers into the as-is-ers camp because of his compassion. wow, just WOW.

  281. If it aint feel right it probably isnt.

    Me personaly have a hard time connecting with my feelings and heart

  282. I aam a butterfly

  283. martyrathbun09

    The simplicity is that my purpose from the get go (as reflected in my Welcome page) and to date (as reflected in my books and the blog – more than 2,000 pages of it) has been to de-cultify. I would have to be rather hypocritical to embrace cultification in the field.

  284. martyrathbun09

    You’ll find my next book interesting which examines that history in some detail.

  285. martyrathbun09

    The simplicity is that my purpose from the get go (as reflected in my Welcome page) and to date (as reflected in my books and the blog – more than 2,000 pages of it) has been to de-cultify. I would have to be rather hypocritical to embrace cultification in the field.

  286. Another elephant in the room: “There is no such thing as a clear.”

    “Reacting” and “Op terming” look the same to a lot of people. But they are different and different types of case.

    I realized this when I finished L12.

    Some people are so thick in op terming they will PREVENT a P.C. or student from having a win. These folk mixed in 3D’s who MUST op term obsessively will also obstruct purposes of the group in forward advancement.

    There is a WIDE different between the reactive mind lighting up and a person who just obsessively op terms. But it comes across looking so similar when it happens that people fail to see the distance. Especially if you have not moved in to manage this type of case.

    Op terming spreads like a virus also in re stimulation.

    I have never read this anyplace in Scientology, it is just a conclusion that I arrived at that explains a lot of things for me.

  287. martyrathbun09

    It is in large part what is handled on the OT Levels in my opinion; when the OT Levels are delivered in a non-cult setting where OP terming is not ingrained as a way of life.

  288. That too! And so true! Op Terming IS ingrained as a “way of life”! Whew! Thanks for that one! LFBD!

  289. Investigation is not an opposing force. Investigation is interest in history.

    But, investigation can be an opposing force when the facts of history don’t support a particular story being sold. Then investigation becomes an enemy to those who believe revealing certain facts will be a detriment to some cause.

    The church opposed critics to crush enemies.

    Comparing these two (one of them being me) as the same as church attacking critics does not square.

    This questioning of church history and Ron’s history is not antithetical to moving up higher.

    Wanting to know the truth is far different from crushing enemies.

    Far far different.

    Interest in history is an extention of critical thinking

    Truth always liberates. But that liberation can be one royal pain in the ass when that light shines light on some resistive darkness.

    If the Independents blossom Marty, helping people, society will always default to these questions I bring up.

    But they may not be as supportive.

    History does not go away.

    And seeking history is not the same as opposing. Not in the slightest.

  290. Thank you Marty, I am working on it daily:-)

  291. martyrathbun09

    I don’t need this lecture. Many independents do, but I doubt they’ll listen. I’ve spent four years trying to little result. Your obsession with making Ron guilty does even less in that regard.

  292. What was your name again? (Joke!)

  293. A != A, no, I haven’t been 3rd partied and don’t even have contact with anyone at all connected with whatever conflicts are occurring.

    In actual fact, I don’t disagree with anything you wrote – but I had forgotten about the 3rd party law! Never made it my own, I realize, but now I will. Thanks for pointing it out.

  294. “In that chapter I spelled out where and how a critical reversal is entered into the Scientology line up that enables it to be converted from a technology to free the mind and spirit to one that incarcerates beings into a cult mindset.”

    The far reaching implications of the fundamental switcheroo confirmed as an intentional, postulated direction to be followed and which was verbalized in this lecture given in 1968 on the “Apollo”:

    “… it sure fixed up an area, they fixed up an implant that their… people are taught carefully that any man who tries to save the world must be killed, he must be mobbed, hanged.

    “Any man who tries to save the world… so I, of course, shifted our valence over to a mock-up to [?tuned in?] to their R6 valence. The whole population of the planet responds like a clock to R6 symbols: they respond to nothing else. They do not respond to reason, they only respond to R6 symbols. So, you occupy the wrong symbol and people begin to think of you as a person who is going to save the planet. Then, one and all are more or less under orders to swatter you.

    “However, then, anybody who tries to do anything about this, he is up to get a flash back so you mustn’t go around talking about being the people who are going to save the planet. You are the people the planet “obeys.” You are the people who own the planet. You are not the people who are going to save the planet… and thereby, you will save it.”

    When one is deprived of the above data, then, one is condemned to be lost wandering a labyrinth with no exit since the original intention is lost and only the attitude remains: forgetting about the goal while inhabiting the projected symbol and starting to feel comfortable with that symbol since it fits the synthetic mockup like a glove.

    Tough to be a sheep in wolf’s clothes without going native…

    Hence, when free thinkers who are able to start expressing some philosophizing… well… status quo wakes up and starts looking for shotguns….

  295. An independent reference which exposes the vested interests behind the campaigns to destroy anything perceived as encroaching on the petrochemical industry/Big Pharma’s market share (e.g. Chiropractic, vitamins, free energy – whatever) is WORLD WITHOUT CANCER — The Story of Vitamin B17 by G. Edward Griffin, particularly PART TWO — THE POLITICS OF CANCER THERAPY (see http://www.vitaminb17.org/wwc_part2.htm).

    That book, together with his later book, THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND (see http://www.thevenusproject.com/downloads/ebooks/6479760-The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island-by-Edward-Griffin.pdf) about the international bankers’ (who own and/or control the petrochemical industry/Big Pharma, mainstream media and the Military Industrial Complex) take-over the U.S. economy, will give you a pretty good understanding of the bear trap LRH unwittingly stepped into by publication of DMSMH.

    To naysayers who would dismiss all this out of hand as “conspiracy theory” (usually without even looking at the fully-documented historical record), I would remind them, “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” (from The Usual Suspects – 1995)

  296. Glad to hear that 🙂 Thank you.

  297. Indeed. You’ve been very busy helping people as-is all the alter-is which turned SC into a true cult.

  298. But this is a Herculean task Marty has taken upon him. Deciding or even discussing in detail where to draw the line with Hubbard and Hubbard policy, I can hardly imagine anything more arduous! No wonder people shy away from the discussion… Nevertheless, the Ron-remake is inevitable, if Scientology is to survive and thrive.

    The most astonishing aspect about Scientology to me is that it sprang from the mind of LRH. It’s a never ending mystery to me how he could have developed any of this. Every time an argument is ‘ended’ with a citation of what LRH said, or Miscavige is ‘proven wrong’ by what LRH said, I know to walk the other way. I wouldn’t even ask what to discard, but what to keep. Calling yourself a Scientologist is still social suicide and the person and woolly writings of LRH have no small part in that. Yes, he is the founder and no, he should not be considered an authority on his own religion. While acknowledging his achievements, there needs to be a distancing from LRH.

    So many people today are open and willing to try out a new path for spiritual development, especially the ones too young for the spacey new age stuff. They’d be a fitting clientele for Scientology 2.0. The new version should contain applicable practices and refrain from promises of salvation it can never keep. If a policy is helpful in furthering the goals as regards to content, then okay. If its only merit lies in the fact that it was uttered out of the originative mouth of LRH, then one wants to keep in mind, that he had his own goals.

    First there is the purpose, then the subordinate policy to aid the purpose. If the purpose changes, the policy needs to be reconsidered. Scientology policies are not exempt from that, not even through the death of LRH.

  299. To Alright and Graduated,
    A lot of the details on all these blogs are necessary to deal with a hell of a lot of 1st dynamic engrams. It is needed and valuable, but it is only the more recent details.
    In order to run out the 3rd dynamic engram of ‘Scientology gone off the rails’, a detailed history needs to be compiled (probably from 1947 onwards to PT). This should be done regardless if Scientology is to be reformed or not.
    It would have to include Ron’s actions and reactions to all outside influences that tried to interfere (real or imagined).
    The demented midget is only the latest half of the incident. There are others that gave advices, orders, ect over this time span, that had an influence also.

  300. I fucking love you

  301. This is an excellent observation. So true! So sad…

  302. Yes. It hurts to agree, but I believe when one truly LOOKS, it is quite obvious. And quite unfortunate.

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