Some people have inferred that I am implying that people ought to become expert in quantum mechanics as some sort of alternate route to enlightenment. Not so. I am studying it – and suggest people involved with Scientology get some familiarity with it – so that they can fully appreciate and enhance what they attained or learned from Scientology.
First, if you’ve been involved with Scientology, and know much about it, you know through most of his presentation of it that L. Ron Hubbard claimed it was a scientifically precise route to spiritual freedom. He claimed to have married Western scientific rigor with Eastern wisdom. In the light of that, it would seem that a person calling himself a ‘Scientologist’ ought to have at least a little curiosity about science, particularly since it has surged forward in quantum leaps since Hubbard lived and wrote.
Second, Scientology has become so laden with doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, and prejudices, that as many fanatics and close-minded religionists seem to emerge from it as do enlightened beings. Learning a bit about what Scientology says and does that aligns with what can be demonstrated can help to cut through that fog.
Scientology, the core technology, is one hell of a lot simpler than some folks have been led to believe. That people believe it is complex is in no small part due to its requirement of strict, literal adherence to a body of writing and lectures that spanned three decades and over time sought to explain all things even if unrelated to the mission of the subject itself. The complexity is due in large part to unavoidable contradictions inherent in developing a technology day in and day out over three decades – against ample opposition – while publishing all thoughts along the way, with very little time available to devote to reviewing, updating and summarizing as results evolved. Faced with this quagmire, the church of Scientology created an even greater one. It finally threw up its hands in apathy and required all of its adherents to study everything uttered by L. Ron Hubbard from the beginning to the end (to the exclusion of any data of comparable magnitude against which to evaluate it), and in essence, said ‘you figure it out.’ In a literalist setting that is a recipe for chronic cognitive dissonance.
A simple remedy I have applied (strictly in alignment with Scientology logic as memorialized in the Data Series technology) and found extremely workable is as follows. I isolated where I believe L. Ron Hubbard best summed up what Scientology is about and what it does – as validated by the ancients he followed, and by the cutting edge of science as well. In other words, the ideal scene it attains toward. It was written in the 1954 book called Creation of Human Ability, under the apt heading A Summary of Scientology. Here is that passage:
CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY AND TIME.
By this it is meant that an idea or opinion is, fundamentally, superior to space, energy and time or organizations of form, since it is conceived that space, energy and time are themselves broadly agreed-upon considerations. That so many minds agree brings about reality in the form of space, energy and time. These mechanics, then, of space, energy and time, are the product of agreed-upon considerations mutually held by life.
The aspect of existence when viewed from the level of Man, however, is a reverse of the greater truth above. For man works on the secondary opinion that the mechanics are real and that his own personal considerations are less important than space, energy and time. This is an inversion. These mechanics of space, energy and time, the forms, objects and combinations thereof, have taken such precedence in Man that they have become more important than considerations, as such, and so his ability is overpowered and he is unable to act freely in the framework of mechanics. Man, therefore, has an inverted view. Whereas considerations, such as those he daily makes, are the actual source of space, energy, time and forms, Man is operating so as not to alter his basic considerations. He, therefore, invalidates himself by supposing an Other-determinism of space, energy, time and form. Although he is part of that which created these, he gives them such strength and validity that his own considerations thereafter must fall subordinate to space, energy, time and form, and so he cannot alter the universe in which he dwells.
The freedom of an individual depends upon that individual’s freedom to alter his considerations of space, energy, time and forms of life, and his roles in it. If he cannot change his mind about these, he is then fixed and enslaved by barriers of his own creation. Man thus is seen to be enslaved by barriers of his own creation. He creates these barriers himself or by agreeing with things which hold these barriers to be factual.
What Hubbard set out to accomplish with Scientology was to return to an individual his or her certainty of these simple truths, and to restore to the individual the ability to exercise his or her considerations in a manner senior to the mechanics of matter, energy, space and time. A thorough study and practice of Scientology and a wide study of science and spirituality outside of Scientology has led me to the strong view that Scientology has nothing higher or more transcendent to offer than the above. At the same time, in keeping with the infinity logic Scientology was developed from, there are infinite possible degrees of that attainable. To the extent one wishes to attain something above and beyond that while keeping his or her considerations junior to the mechanics of Scientology doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, and prejudices, one winds up, for the most part, bitter and disappointed in Scientology. To mask that disappointment a person can become rather judgmental and fanatical, even cruel and vengeful. To the extent one insists that Scientology delivers more than what Ron outlines above, by my observation, the further that individual is from attaining and demonstrating that which it can deliver. Don’t take my word for it. Look, don’t listen.
So, the very workable guideline I have applied (strictly in alignment with Scientology logic as memorialized in the Data Series) is to develop the ability to differentiate that of Scientology which forwards Ron’s goal from doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, prejudices, and even procedure that do not demonstrably lead someone to greater ability to exercise his or her considerations as senior to the mechanics of matter, energy, space and time.
Which brings us back to quantum theory. A working knowledge of it and how scientists and spiritualists are finding that that knowledge relates to spirit is a) a tremendous, scientific validation of Ron’s observations and goals above and everything he developed that leads to its recognition, a validation which can only raise one’own certainty that CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY, AND TIME, and b) a tremendous boost in developing the ability to differentiate as covered above so as to attain an ascending certainty and ability to exercise one’s considerations senior to matter, energy, space and time. There are even a number of scientists who have reached unshakable certainty that CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY AND TIME. That certainty was attained in part by study in the field of quantum mechanics (e.g. Bruce Lipton The Biology of Belief).
I am not suggesting people become quantum physicists in order to attain spiritual freedom through cognitive, scientific intellect. I am suggesting that enough grounding in the discoveries of science – combined with honest attainment of the grades and the state of Clear, and superior solo auditing skills – concerning the woof and warp of the universe can open vistas heretofore unseen and never before attained in Scientology in alignment with and enhancement of the goals of Scientology.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
The genius of LRH was in extracting the workable truths from an almost endless sea of existing data and dogma, rather than creating something new under the sun as so many literal Scientologists believe. Marty, it occurs to me that you are doing something similar, in extracting the workable essence of the subject from the sea of data that resulted from LRH “publishing all thoughts along the way” for over 30 years
I get what you are saying. But, I am not then dictating what they are; but instead am saying, utilizing his own brilliant logic system (Data Series) can make the workable essence rather apparent.
Though I do intend to share some results of my own differentiation process in the future.
Well, this is very well stated, Marty.
I think many of us, people who where in the Church of Scientology, know that it is full of unnecessary dogma and that this dogma has nothing to do with the core principals of Scientology.
Anyone needs to look closeley and compare the data to the universe around him.
Not any datum is of the same value to the goals of Scientology or even (and what I think should be important to any practitioner) to the Livingness of a single individual.
As succinct a description of your direction as I have seen thus far. I think to object in any meaningful way with what you have laid out, you must postulate at some level the incomprehensibility of LRH or his basic truths.
Great Post Marty. Quantum Theory understood is a big Help at many levels.
Mainly keeping my mouth shut in front of critics, then going ahead and doing whats correct and make the critics wrong.
Another great post Marty.
I highly recommend the work of Amit Goswami. He is a serious quantum physicist that writes very compelling wonderful work about how consciousness, precedes, forms and influences the physical universe.
In Scientology terms, theta exists prior to MEST, brings MEST into being, affects MEST and fundamentally there is only theta.
The implications are profound. Needless to say having good ARC with the true nature of this universe and your relationship to it could be very beneficial.
We don’t need to go into ‘agreement’ with the physical universe, we need to be in ARC across all 8 dynamics to be OT.
http://www.amitgoswami.org/about/
I saw a documentary in which he was featured. Fascinating stuff.
What does LRH have to say about physical qualities only changing in discrete amounts? Or the uncertainty principle? I think he would have discounted these ideas entirely, if he ever thought about them. His science knowledge was poor. He thought radiation gets stored in the body. He denied the existence of fat cells. He thought the Van Allen belt was hot. He thought there were processing plants on Mars. He messed up the age of a lot of his volcanoes. Even if you think that his techniques can help somebody psychologically, these are basic errors that have to be admitted.
Hello! I am not nor have I ever been, nor do I plan to be, involved in Scientology – so I hope I’m not intruding here! As a new follower of your blog I find this fascinating.
I love this idea that you can create a reality by transcending the notions of space, energy, and time, as we have labeled them. (My layman’s interpretation.) It reminds me a tiny bit of Buddhism.
I love your statement, “A lot of folks seem to be suffering from the inculcated idea that once they depart or cease to slavishly follow every arbitrary dictate they automatically forfeit any spiritual gains they may have attained along the road.” This could apply to anyone who has left any encompassing religious practice, like myself.
I’ve found, to my joy, that it does not have to happen that way at all. So I’m so glad that you are able to help others come to the same realization, if needed. That life is just as amazing, if not better, from the other side of the fence. Keep at it. 🙂 I look forward to reading through more posts.
Thanks. Your perspective is much appreciated.
I agree with what you’ve written here wholeheartedly, Marty. I think what you’ve described here is the purest form of application of Scientology philosophy in exploring the realms of para-Scientology. I believe the track you are on could ultimately arrive at and delineate the nexus between the Tao Te Ching and Quantum Mechanics. Here is a great video which I believe is right on point, BTW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj_i7YqDwJA
Indeed, Scientology is actually simplicity itself. It approximates theta and the universal fundamentals of existence. The only thing difficult about is it is working through one’s own complexities in order to get down to, grasp and master its utter simplicities. It is truly an elegant subject.
I very much look forward to seeing what you share of your process.
Where did you get your data, Rod?
I too have done quite a bit of reading and study re Quantum theory in the last year or two. What you write is very apt Marty. I suggest the books “Biocentrism” and “The Age of Enganglement” as great intros to the subject.
Oops, typo. I meant “The Age of Entanglement” of course.
Why consider that one must do the Grades or study Quantum Mechanics in order to transcend?
Seems to me that that is still placing MEST actions above considerations. For one must open books, listen to lectures, utilize the internet and use up time in order to consider that they are now enlightened. The exact reverse of consideration taking rank over MEST.
Shouldn’t one simply be able to consider that they are suddenly enlightened?
Shouldn’t one simply be able to make the Law of Attraction work by postulate alone, without having to make the phone calls, show the property to prospective clients, fill out the paperwork, etc?
You definitely have me asking questions this morning Mr Rathbun.
🙂
Of course. I think I addressed this in the post on the Secret a while back. If you can do it – more power to you. Unfortunately, few can instanteously. I believe the Grades and Clear produce that ability – when done in integral fashion as I have outlined on the blog. Just my observation and opinion. That is what a blog is for.
I should have said ‘increase’ that ability.
I wish I COULD do it instantaneously, believe me.
But then, where would the game be?
I couldn’t agree more with your recent views on the Law of Attraction and The Secret, etc.
To me, possibly as a result of currently existing in a body on a planet in three apparent dimensions, I instinctively know that one can’t just postulate a new car and “poof”, there it is. One has to make the phone calls, show the property to prospective clients, do the paperwork, add in some time and then go out, test drive and finally purchase the car.
And to bring LRH into this, all he ever tried to do was create a better game. Perhaps one in which a person can make things happen faster and with less hard knocks. But to take away the MEST mechanics, as I hinted at above, would probably lead to boredom for the thetan, now that I think about it.
So, I guess this entire endeavor called life is to simply continue to improve conditions…….not to solve absolutely everything.
It sure would be great if our postulates always stuck, but the fact is most of us have so much crap on our lines that does not happen. I got into scientology for just that reason. Unfortunately the bullshit in scientology caught up with me befor I got to do my grades or much of anything else. but I am stil working on it. Great post Marty. I remember asking you about quantum mechanics and enlightenment a few posts back and you gave me a quick answer, but this post is most helpful.
Bryan,
Why? Simple – most of us have no up so high we are above it all. For those that have, great. If you actually have risen to that ability then you don’t have to eat breakfast, there would be no “morning”, etc. You wouldn’t even need the little dog, or leash – just cuddle and walk them in your thoughts.
Your questions could be viewed from the perspective that, if we handled whatever we have already considered is there to handle, then our new postulates wouldn’t be hitting our own face. Reality wise I am humble enough to believe we all have something holding us back from our true potentials. I for one am interested in handling whatever is there and getting better. Never perfect – just better.
PS: The last group I knew attempting to transcend without gadients were found in a building in San Diego with a purple cloth on their bodies while they permanently went out for a ride in space. Maybe it worked for them. Who knows, but I don’t believe any who still use the keyboards and internet to chat here on this blog are a full cause of thoughts and have no need for the physical/MEST universe.
I agree that an understanding of quantum theory will bolster one’s understanding of the basics written by LRH. There are many advances in science since the time when LRH studied it. Now we see that some of those advances show much to be true that was said and written. Just as clearing words used, study of the concepts being considered make for a more thorough understanding and not a diversion.
I don’t know if this is the one you are referring to, but there is a documentary film that is all about him and and his ideas available for streaming on Amazon called “The Quantum Activist”
It’s excepts for his lectures and interviews. It’s pretty cool.
http://tinyurl.com/cp67cju
Great post Marty, actually another great post.
Opening a closed mind requires work, you gotta force the rusty hinges to get the door open, but it’s worth the work as there are definite rewards along the way.
“Second, Scientology has become so laden with doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, and prejudices, that as many fanatics and close-minded religionists seem to emerge from it as do enlightened beings. Learning a bit about what Scientology says and does that aligns with what can be demonstrated can help to cut through that fog.”
I have observed some of that to be true.
Yeah, that’s the one.
Exceptionally well articulated Marty!
I’m finding as I progress through The Grades myself how easy it is becoming to alter these considerations…and it’s effortless. This auditing basically helps one see why his or her life is the way it is because of postulates made while considering MEST was senior. The realization that one is indeed responsible for their own condition breaks the MEST is senior circuit…so to speak. The result being the freedom to consider based only on the decision to do so and nothing else.
This is the best quantum practical assignment there is IMHO.
Brian, thanks for the great insight. A reference I use to re-orient veterans to the purpose Scientology is PAB 86 which states:
THE GOAL OF SCIENTOLOGY: The end object of Scientology is not the making into nothing of all existence or the freeing of the individual of any and all traps everywhere. The goal of Scientology is making the individual capable of living a better life his own estimation and with his fellows and the playing of a better game.
Great. Agreed.
Marty, I appreciate how much thought you have been putting into your “eval”. After pretty much putting the subject of Scientology behind me after many, many years of involvement (bitterly, at that), I must say I am finding my interest being somewhat renewed. Prior to Scientology I was interested in Zen, mainly though the writings of Alan Watts. Though that study, I was achieving a sense of personal serenity I could only hope for up to that point. Then came Scientology. I experienced real wins in the first few months of my involvement. But you’ve no doubt heard many people express the point that one has significant wins at the beginning of the bridge which then sucks you in and keeps you in — hoping for some result you never quite get. That applied to me too. However, decades later, based on your recommendation, I got a copy of the Stephen Mitchell translation of the Tao Te Ching. I figured I had nothing to lose. Afterall, I enjoyed my cursory study of Zen way back when, so why not give it a go. I read the book. And I read it. And read it again. And again. Concurrently I’ve been reading your blog posts. Now I am beginning to track with you in terms of what I should have been expecting out of Scientology all along. Studying and experiencing Scientology, without the context of what Hubbard himself had been studying and observing prior to formulating it, put the subject — well — out of context for me. Odd how such a study of what Hubbard studied was never encouraged and indeed, may well have been discouraged had I been “caught” doing that. Again, I appreciate your taking the trouble to lay out and share your observations. Being a trained Data Evaluator myself (and remembering suddenly how the Data Series is actually a very valuable and workable body of knowledge), I would be fascinated to see your final eval in proper format, should you ever choose to do so.
Yep, that’s the exact reference. Thanks!
Thank you for this Marty (and the last few months of posts). I feel more me then I have in some 16 years. When I left staff (after 19 years) and off and on while on ‘LOA’, I felt I was in conflict with my Church. I felt that although I admired Ron and all he has done for mankind and loved the purpose of ‘clearing the planet’, I was most the time in conflict with the persons I was working with and then the persons that were managing the church so much that NO headway was being made. They did not seem to be becoming more ‘OT’ and I was losing my gains from my OT levels and all the FPRD and lower bridge below that. Leaving at least put space between me and the conflict and I can look at it. It was a constant Danger condition. Disagreements bring that about. For years I assigned the cause of that as me. I requested a disagreement check and after insisting for 3 years, finally got the assessment but can you believe that NO ONE in PAC was qualified to do the ‘Why Finding’ to resolve the issue (2004/5). It was not until 3 years ago reading and studying books and your blog that I have managed to
feel more and more me, enjoy once again the here and now, and find some amount of understanding in what happened and learn from it. I take time and care to validate myself and my knowingness more and more each day.
I read up on meditation and after 20 secs of it realized I need to simplify my life 1st. Now that may seem like one of those derogatory parts of a PL ‘Having to have before one can do’ or ‘Must organize for production’ but no, it works for me so now I’m cleaning out my clothing, truck, photos etc. I got my teeth worked on and new glasses. I’m already in a sane environment with wilderness and fresh air.
It’s amazing also that I am getting back my memory, my wins and I am studying and retaining the information like has not happened for a long long time.
As for Consideration being senior – seems that anyone who has gone into a session (counseling) and come out to a changed world – brighter colors and more perceptions and the world smiling with you, will easily know that considerations are senior to this physical universe. Thank you for helping me remember that. I appreciate you sharing your education. I thinking it is only education and understanding that can change considerations for the better. By education I mean to include life’s adventures good and bad. With the gains I have received by correct application and understanding of Ron’s tech I fully know I will not get worse. I knew that even when I had gone into agreement with those who invalidated me. I also know that would not have happened unless I was somehow in agreement with it. The trouble comes double when one’s entire life (family and future) is wrapped around their church and it’s future. It mixed up the dynamics and goals into a mix mash of considerations which became entwined with MEST and heck – one could lose site of themselves in all that!
Thanks Marty for giving us this outlet of learning.
Cece
Marty a great post. And I do agree that outside of the church we are free to discuss and research things without intervention so that ascending through higher understanding can occur.
One thing I would like to note though is that LRH had an ability to explain things in simpler ways than others. Every word he wrote he wrote it with the viewpoint of “Can this be understood?”
Of course in reading some subject one can have a lot of misunderstoods and not get it finally. Still a lot of books that are written in many fields do not apply gradients or do not care for understanding so much.
As time goes on I do care for things and care for understanding. And this point needs to be noted as one can be lost in higher truths which he can’t get.
I got to understand how a battery works (negative and positive poles and a base) through LRH. I understood polarity then. The guy had it all broken down and easy for me to grasp.
If scientists knew the importance and effects of MUs they would be much more careful in their writing.
But I agree we should get a glimpse and more into Quantum Physics. YouTube provides also mass now in phenomena heretofore only explained through words which are very scientific too and not really defined.
Marty, Here! Here! And Amen! Also Right On!!! : )
Great stuff. LRH was often about 30-50 years ahead of the pack. I remember during my auditor training reading about “Mother drinking alcohol” (as an engramatic experience to be run out) and realizing the medical community didn’t really start promoting the dangers of drinking alcohol during pregnancy until the 80’s (the labels warning of fetal alcohol syndrome were legislated in 88″.)
Isn’t it interesting that in Quantum mechanics there is much ado in recent years about the “observer effect” and how the observer becomes part of the system being observed and reality is affected by the action of observing. In auditing, PC+Auditor is greater than bank and as-isness occurs when the auditor guides the PC into making a present time observation of charged events from the past.
Standstill.
I am glad you are doing this. One should look at everything! Good for you Marty!
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Marty, I do agree with you on your general direction and I think you inspiring people to look at the fundamental building blocks of reality all the way down to particle physics is in perfect alignment with your goal to transcend.
I couldn’t agree more with your direction.
Any science which allows one to think better with reality and allow a deeper understanding is useful. For instance as a software engineer I often recommend people to learn just a little bit of programming even if they are not planning on a software engineering carrier because doing so opens up one’s ability to think with quantitative and statistical systems tremendously. To the degree one learns to think like a programmer and to the degree one practices such ability their ease of understanding the universe will increase. You don’t have to develop your own game or anything complex just some simple learning projects are sufficient enough to open up such abilities. Currently there isn’t another science which does this for you the same way computer science and a little experience of programming can.
The why is simple: Computers may appear to be very complex wizardry at first look, but when one understands the fundamentals they realize how simple it really is. Understanding bits and bytes and being able to write a few trivial programs for practice are essential and tie in with the ability to understand the quantitative nature of the universe. IMO these sciences go hand in hand. (computer and quantum physics) To the degree that the lack of programming knowledge and the lack of spiritual enlightenment is why quantum physics is full of holes and exceptions.
Just how you recommend people to find out a bit about quantum physics I recommend finding out a little about programming and computer technology. Familiarity was the keyword you used. Indeed the same applies to computer science. Those not familiar with either sciences may not yet see how it ties in with or even remotely helps one have a better understanding of SC. So they have to take our word for it. Interest in both of these sciences IMO are inherent part of transcendence.
To put this into perspective: one can achieve a good understanding of quantum physics without understanding computers and programming and get a good foundation. However the understanding of programming can seriously jump start one’s ability to then think with the knowledge they gathered about quantum particles.
I know this is going to be strange for many who are not familiar with programming but to me the closest and more solid understanding of theta came from the realization of the similarity of theta and software.
What is software? When you really think about it you realize it is not the machine. Oh no! The machine consists of circuits. Which are essentially particles. The materialistic hardware you can touch. But software is not something you can touch. It is the mere collection of state changes of the machinery. If is what controls what the computer does. Without it the computer is as good as a paper weight. If that doesn’t sound like the difference between theta and meat body I don’t know what does. To me computer software is an extension of theta, in particular it is the theta instilled into the computer by the thetan who created the program.
For those who have not yet learned the basics of computing I would highly recommend putting it on the agenda somewhere along the line with quantum physics. Just to be clear I am not talking about knowing how to email here and turn on the computer. I am talking about getting some understanding of bits, bytes, CPU, memory and such. Understanding what they do exactly. To the degree where one can write some trivial program like … I don’t know … say tic-tac-toe. There are loads of tutorials online for all this. It looks complex at first. Hell it looked like mind bending chaos to me at first until I’ve learned the basics. Once you get the basics you will be one step closer on your path to truth I guarantee! No need to set too complex goals just a simple program will do. Of course I don’t guarantee that you won’t develop a taste for it. Once you get started if you like what you are doing who knows where you’ll end up.
It may seem like that since I am a software engineer I think like one and hence see and analyze everything like a software engineer. Also it may seem that by law of affinity I would want all others to know, do and see as I.
OK … maybe there is a little bit of that but I can assure you all that if you learn about computing you will thank yourself one day even if you have zero intention to become a software engineer.
Now onto the subject at hand:
“CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY AND TIME”
I’ve had a hard time with this one for a while.
Recently I came to understand why. I took it as an absolute. Whether LRH meant it as an absolute or not does not matter. I now realize it should not be translated as an absolute. It is more of a marriage between consideration and the MEST universe. That is of course from our mortal viewpoint. From an outside view it may be that consideration is an absolute superior. But the way this is stated can be very misleading when we are thinking with this objectively. (for me it was at least) Consideration taking rank would mean that ultimately total mind over matter can be had as an ability. That is total control. While I do think that mind over matter is not out of question, one has to consider the collision of interests which land on the MEST universe on daily bases. Even if you have some mind over matter thing going on we are not alone in this world and there are many sources of interest present. Almost 7 billion sources of consideration if we only count bodies. When these considerations collide they impinge on the MEST universe and hence solidify it. Thereby removing its freedom to move according to either of the sources of consideration. Hence the portion of the MEST universe will follow its pre-programmed behavior pattern. Collision of consideration is constant throughout the day. People chasing the finite number of particles arranged in the shape of money. Many people wanting to have the same particle sculptures referred to as Ferrari, Bentley or even a Prius. Big screen TVs, boats, a beach houses, or a trip to the Bahamas. Whatever it is you desire chances are that others have the same desire because we are packed in pretty tight on this planet. If the surface of the planet was to be split evenly between all of us everyone would only have 5 acres. (or less if we get technical about usable land) Land is no exception from having colliding interests.
IMO consideration is indeed the controller of matter by nature. But the finite nature of the MEST universe combined with the fact of multiple sources of consideration impinges on the freedom of this puppeteer – puppet relation. Would it be only one consideration present then the MEST universe could be shaped simply by thought any way ONE pleases. But that would make for a rather boring game. Which is why I think we exactly ‘where’ are.
Hey Marty,
Thanks for publishing this LRH statement from the Creation of Human Ability, but thanks even more for emphasizing it’s relative importance in the subject of Scientology. I knew I had read these thoughts before but did not remember where. It lays the Theta-Mest theory out very clearly. Thanks for putting it out there and indicating its relative importance.
I have been interested in physics since I was a preteen and so when I read the axioms and COHA I was able see the logical progression to what I had read before. I agree that getting familiar with the “quantum theory” of physics can give a greater understanding of these basic Scientology principles. Sometime during the last year, an issue of the magazine Scientific American had some interesting articles which mentioned that a sizable minority of physicists have now come to the conclusion that, logically, the physical universe MUST have originated from a source outside of and separate from the physical universe itself! These statements correlate perfectly with and are in agreement with the LRH COHA quote you gave. They are an indication of integration and transcendence on the part of some physicists which Scientologists would be wise to embrace.
Note: I think that part of the back-off on learning about “quantum theory” may be that it is a technical word which may be unfamiliar and is often poorly defined.
Here is a simple definition and explanation I found which may be helpful to people:
http://www.universetoday.com/53210/define-quantum/
There is a difference between quantum theory, which is science, and the interpretation of quantum theory, which is not. When asked how the results of quantum physics should be interpreted a common response is, “shut up and calculate.”
Hawking phrased it as, “All I’m concerned with is that the theory should predict the results of measurements. Quantum theory does this very successfully.”
You are free to interpret quantum theory however you want but this does not mean than quantum theory validates your worldview or the idea that “CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY, AND TIME”.
I’d recommend Victor Stenger’s “Quantum Gods”. You are free to disagree with Stenger but if you are serious about your interest in quantum theory it is worth reading a thorough refutation of the spiritual interpretations of it.
Thanks. Remember, when you decide to pick up a coffee cup and take a swig, it is mind over matter. When Michael Joran levitated – that was mind over matter. Yes, degrees, infinite logic, applies.
Thanks for the recommend SF. I suggest Lipton’s Biology of Belief to perhaps get you to rethink reductionism.
Wonderful post Marty in that this cuts to the heart of all these conversations.
This and these realities are all but simple considerations. I can thank LRH for, not only pointing it out, but helping me figure it out.
What the hell, even this post is a result of some ass-kicking consideration.
From the viewpoint of ‘theta’, it’s all considerations.
Thanks E.
I agree with your computer programming reference. From my educational research I’ve come to believe that programming, statistics and probability are at least as important as geometry or algebra.
Also, when one begins to study the hardware down to the actual functioning of chips, quantum reality emerges. For example, Google “tunneling in semiconductors” (semiconductors are a basic class of electronic component used in PCs, cell phones and many other devices…
Exactly. The moment you have a thought it’s already mind over matter. But such is sort of within a relative limited system which we call the body and its present surrounding. The point I was making is that the word ‘over’ can be misleading. I had a good general understanding of matter, energy and space even before SC and I still had to work my way out of the illusion it can bring about. The reason I would use the word control instead of over is this:
you can think about having a sip of coffee all you want if there is no coffee in front of you you are going to have none. So the point is that the word over is a little too strong. JMO Matter and consideration go along hand in hand. More like a marriage between the two than one over the other.
“Second, Scientology has become so laden with doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, and prejudices, that as many fanatics and close-minded religionists seem to emerge from it as do enlightened beings.
I think Hubbard noticed this and this is why he wrote the policy on robotism?
In other words it is not a master slave relation IMO. (this is easily misunderstood relation which I see others having issue with not just me)
I seem to recall an LRH lecture where he talks about the “comm-lag” of the MEST universe.
Even though the guy changes his considerations, it often takes the MEST universe a good while to change in response.
He did not deny the existence of fat cells, in fact he addresses this in the purif policies. Other false information in your post as well.
Maybe so.
Hello A is not equal A.
I agree with your statement about software.
Any design is done by theta. Even the structure of the DNA.
Software and Hardware was created by theta.
And I agree that learning about software programming (to design and code computer programms) can help to get a lot of mass to many LRH concepts.
I also loved the Data Series along with software development and developing and debugging software is a good excersize in the Data Series.
It is also interesting, that LRH used the computer as a model for the mind in Dianetics. The memory bank, the held down seven, and even the terms “Clear”, “circuit” and some more.
I would even say, deliberate, that some of LRHs concepts found its way into software development (some of it may be even coincidence, so I don’t want to start any speculations).
But yes, your suggestion to learn something about computers and software programming in particular is a good one, as it provides some mass and data of comparable magnitude.
But ultimately I don’t mind so it don matter 😉
Indeed Marty, it’s all gradients.
I’d like to put in a video in here of my favorite Tai Chi Chuan Master, Ian Sinclair. He has a school in Canada: http://www.taichicanada.com/
Tai Chi Chuan is not only a practical implementation of the Tao Teh Ching, but also a great way for spiritual development. If someone really wants to learn indeep the lessons of the Tao Teh Ching, the true meaning of Wu Wei, Balance, Grounding (holding position in space as a base for power generation), letting-go, removing resistance (from self and “enemy”) he should get himself a Tai Chi Master or visit a Tai Chi class.
It’s another array of data of comparable magnitude. Espacially in the area of energy, flow, ridges, resistence and even some insights how the Goal-Problem-Mass is being created and how to avoid it.
I need to add that Tai Chi Chuan was a way of living for many generations in some areas of china. It is more than only a Martial Art.
Another one is “Using the mind and not force”
There are lots of videos with Ian Sinclair. Nice narratives. Very easy to follow (no use of special nomenclature words).
LRH’s references are indeed interesting and one (or more) too many for sheer coincidence IMO. With minds like he had coincidence is minority player. Good one on bringing up debugging! I Software debugging can help one’s ability to walk the bridge more efficiently and in return one walking the bridge becomes an even more efficient debugger.
Does “in recent years” mean from 1927? That’s when Heisenberg came up with the “observer effect”, and it’s been discussed since then.
The irony is that it was quantum theory, in main part, that kept me away from Scientology. It’s a simple principle: if something sounds insane to you after you take in the implications of what quantum theory has to offer, it must be very, very insane. Scientology sounded insane to me after I took quantum my senior year of college. So I stayed away.
And in case you want to make a value judgement of Scientology versus quantum theory, I give you this: L. Ron Hubbard never won a Nobel Prize. The guy who taught me quantum theory did.
Marty,
I have been rather engulfed in the effort to help people out of the flat earth society while you have been moving people on up with far more expansive ideas… And thus I have had little time or opportunity to comment on anything in the past 3 weeks.
I find this whole direction fascinating, and especially in light of your comment about COHA. I have long felt that COHA was really the pinnacle of the distillation of the philosophy of Scientology (if not the practical application) and when LRH said he had reached a point of OT in the 50’s and had been undercutting to try to develop a foolproof route to achieve it ever since, I thought that was very significant. Those efforts included many significant and important breakthroughs, but in the effort to make a path that everyone could follow I think it became a path that too many try to walk without understanding the reason it exists, and believing there is nothing else that is needed beyond a rigid adherence to the path. That to me defies that oh so important principle that considerations take rank over the mechanics of space, energy and time. Because considerations are thought/theta. And if there is no thought, only robotic action, then there is no advancement, no matter how asserted the “gains” are.
Thanks for opening up the thought process and bringing considerations back to the fore.
Mike,
That is a great point you make about the undercut. When I completed the Bridge I gravited straight to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. Prior to then it resonated. But after the Bridge it made one heck of a lot more sense. I used that same paradigm of yours a lot over the past few years with people one on one as a result. That is everything after 1954 was undercut, according to LRH, and after my experience above that made perfect sense. But, the way you have framed it here makes further sense. It is like the means became the end, because most folk were never introduced to – or had much reality on – the end.
I don’t want to make a value judgment – it is like judging the value of oranges against the value of apples. As to the Nobel Prize, few vitalists – if any – were ever even nominated.
Incidentally, LRH was all over sub atomic physics in the PDC.
Cece: “I read up on meditation and after 20 secs of it realized I need to simplify my life 1st.”
It sounds like you sort of did a PAB 6, a simple but powerful little piece of tech.
Here are a couple others you made me think of, from the Tech Dictionary:
REACTIVE BANK, 1. a stimulus-response MACHINE of some magnitude. (PXL, p. 217) 2 . unconscious mind. (Cert, Vol. 14, No. 7) See REACTIVE MIND.
And the definition of machine:
MACHINE, 1. an actual machine in the mind, (like ordinary machinery) constructed out of mental mass and energy, that has been made by the individual to do work for him, usually having been set up so as to come into operation automatically under certain predetermined circumstances. (Scn AD) 2 . a very special kind of circuit, and they have wheels and cogwheels and belts and barrels and steam boilers and electronic electrodes and dials and switches and meters, almost anything you can think of as a machine, you will find in some thetan’s bank as a machine, doing something that any machine does. (5 LACC-10, 5811C07) 3 . the individual got disinterested in what he was doing but he felt he had to go on doing it so he set it up automatically. (5410ClOD)
Marty, thank you for this wonderful post. This LRH reference about considerations being senior to space, energy and time from COHA has always had a tonic effect on me. Every time I have read it I have always felt somewhat released or keyed out. I’ve always been aware on some level that it is true. Anything I have experienced as true in Scientology has never
been nullified by reading data that differs, is similar or identical. I applaud the mindset of refusing to allow the workability of Scientology auditing and training to solidify into mindless dogma. The truth and help available in Scientology cannot be erased or threatened. I applaud the self determined usage of any workable truths. Every datum in a body of work can and should be properly evaluated. LRH said that in the Study Tapes and in a number of other lectures, although he also contradicted himself too, here and there. No matter, we are each responsible for evaluating our own data. Frankly, I’ve never made any formal study of philosophy and I’ll be candid with you and say that sometimes what you’ve written has been over my head, yet I still read because I know that your essential purpose is to encourage us to reach out for as much truth as we can, and then to properly evaluate our own data, and in this way, in a self-determined, aware and knowledgeable way, move on up a little higher.
Marty, you said in one sentence (your final one) what it took me a paragraph to try and relate. 🙂
Yeah and the discussions about wavelengths and flows and theta in 8-80 is pretty far removed from Confessional Procedure, the Conditions Formulas and “KSW” which are the 3 senior data that rank above all else in the current church… 🙂
Exactly. At the chip level one comes to the understanding of the inherent conditional nature of the particles. The ability to realize and think with conditional logic and complex arrays of conditional logic can be very beneficial to many not just software and computer hardware engineers.
Marty,
Beautifully stated as usual.
The subject of this post is why I stated around Scientology for so long. It has been a lonely and frustrating road.
I never minded anybody who wanted to use the tech to build themselves a better professional life, money, family, etc. I always thought that they should go for it, if those were their goals.
What I minded was that those same people so obsessively defined Scientology only within their limited constructed universe. And that they so arrogantly imposed their views of what Scientology should be for everyone else.
The ones that I reject the most are the religionists, the clean hands people, the ones who expect everyone to be on board, to become a saved member, to act like a good and dedicated Scientologist.
At one point or another all of us get a taste of that state beyond the body senses, sometimes for a short time, sometimes deeper. Then all self delusions vanish, the carefully constructed Scientology universe has no meaning anymore, nor any other construct for that matter.
The best that Scientology has to offer is as a vehicle to that state; make it more and it turns into a prison.
It is that simple.
Gee, I don’t know who “E.” be, but it ain’t me!
…On second thought, maybe I am “E.”. That could be a useful misdirection of my identity for OSA’s benefit (if they care) …..or is it? 🙂
I want to add a little point here. In my office I had a small immersion boiling device to boil my coffee water. This device had been used by many others and thus this did nut survive very long. Just burned through due to lack of care. The day I had enough of it buying a new one I put into that boiler device the idea (postulate or consideration) that the one that burnes it through will die instantly. This new one survived for more than a year. So I guess that MEST or matter in my sample can hold considerations of others (me in this case) and those considerations can be perceived by others. And if strong or good enough can command others.
This point is missing as I have the idea that it is not „all me“. Thus, if one has some difficulty to handle MEST with „considerations“ have a look if there are considerations from others.
Then handling MEST is more successfull. (as considerations are above energy and flows there is no fight between intentions.)
If someone did spot my idea I put into the boiling device he could have changed it or ignored it.
Marty and Mike
+10
Yes, “Not auditing you” confessionals for megabucks.
Police polygraphing sec checking while making you PAY each hour by the hour
for the interrogatories.
The highest crimes looked for in these sec checks currently are not what would be transgression or immorality or things against the law.
They are :
Disaffected with Miscavige ?
Unhappy with management ?
Critical of Int Events ?
Unkind thoughts about Reg cycles ?……..
And Flag pcs pay $8500 for 12.5 hours for this !
You get the picture…
Oh, that’s right. “E.” Espiritu. Got it. I forgot my handle.
Never mind, it’s late here in the Far East. Good night. 🙂
The hoopla that I was referring to was having to do with an experiment with Photon Particles being shot at a double slit. There were people in the theoretical physics community got excited and considered it a break though of sorts. But hey, thanks for giving credit to Mr Heisenberg for his 1927 work.
Among other places.
When you change the way you look at things…the things you look at change. 🙂
Another wonderful post Marty. Thank you.
During a recent conversation with a buddhist friend, who had been skiing in Jackson Hole and just happened to be invited to a small retreat with a young Tibetan teacher from Nepal, she was lamenting how in the tradition we had been involved with – there was very little emphasis on conduct – yet THIS young Tibetan teacher said it was core to any further hope for “moving up”
I’ve found that buddhists tend to find a path for themselves and then hunker down … read ONLY that path and venture rarely out from under the structure of that path.
Thus, creating for themselves the very same lock-down-mind-set that ends up ensuring that genuine “moving up” will never occur.
Basically it is a form of laziness and interest in remaining where it is comfortable.
It’s difficult for a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner to wander over to Zen or Theravadan but by not doing so the risk of becoming mono-focused and missing the forest is vast.
These posts and comments are a constant reminder for me to reach outside of my comfort zone …
Christine
Is that from a Course in Miracles?
I’m not saying reductionism is inherently correct, just that quantum theory doesn’t automatically imply a non-reductionist world. Any positive statements about the spirit or the primacy of consciousness have to be justified by more evidence than just the validity of quantum theory as a predictive tool.
I’ll have a look at Lipton’s book, though from his YouTube videos he seems to have a poor understanding of natural selection for a biologist.
Not directly…The idea seems to be in all that I read about spirit and our ability to change the world by the way we see the world.
I think the problem with reductionists seeing what vitalists see is that they can’t break out of trying to reduce – in other words they cannot see spirit, they cannot sense themselves.
Well, it is a great axiom.
I love it !!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
more..more…mote…
this is why I started in Scientology !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marty,
Check it out…
I’m not really sure what you are saying here. Reductionism isn’t inherently opposed to vitalism.– the ancient Greeks thought souls were composed of “soul atoms”.
Reductionism just says that emergent behavior can be explained solely by the behavior of the underlying components even while not actually derivable from the behavior of the underlying components.
I think the reductionist view would be that if “spirit” exists it is either an emergent property of things that we know exist or an emergent property that implies the existence of things we have yet to discover.
Well Marty,
you got me thinking more on the consideration that CONSIDERATIONS TAKE RANK OVER THE MECHANICS OF SPACE, ENERGY AND TIME,
and this is where I went with that.
This entire universe was created by the initial consideration of “otherness”. (“otherness” = other than or separate from pure Theta or total ARC-U)
Or to put it in other words, “otherness” is the “Q” of this universe. All considerations affecting this universe contain within them the common denominator of the consideration of “otherness”. Matter, Energy, Space, and Time, are alike, conditions based on considerations of “otherness”.
This suggests to me that the key to the dissolution,or perhaps resolution, of this universe, or any part of it, is the dissolution (resolution) of the considerations of “otherness”, or In other words, ARC-U.
Eric
SF – Why would not natural selection include the role and function of vitalism – thoughts and purpose behind the physical object? Lipton was a highly trained and experienced cell biologist. It was the apparent lack of answers from a purely mechanistic view that brought him to view more of the subject. You might also enjoy another biologists concepts on this. In this first video you can jump to time at about 8:30 to 11 minutes:
Further on thinking outside of the box and the fixed “dogma” of science in this video next. Both of these biologists are finding answers and solutions consistent with the role of vitalism (a living source involved) with the apparent biology. An understanding of the quantum theory aspects of this and the understanding of the basic LRH discussed lead to an enriched understanding of life, health, the health of the planet around us. In my opinion this gives a broader understanding and application to the categories discussed in the eight dynamics, and thus ethics and optimum survival.
View both videos with no pre-conceived outcome and I believe you will be more enlightened by the experience.
I think so too 🙂
Amen! 🙂
Much along the same line – depends on which wolf you feed:
An elder Cherokee Native American was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, “A fight is going on inside me. It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, pride,and superiority. The other wolf stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity,truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside of you and every other person too.” The children thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?” The old Cherokee simply replied: “The one I feed.”
Christine
/Perhaps Time is the real Elephant,
Scientology was conceived in its time and the problems and solutions, policy and prudence, are all liable to become stale-dated.
Orthodox (pure) interpretation strives to conserve and thereby hamper, or stop, the ability to integrate, evolve and transcend.
The challenge is to reload, and take another look.
Thanks SKM, such a nice song!
That is a phenomena which I have been noticing also. I do wonder though about the source of the lag. Part of it may be due to the MEST universe but then again part of it might be due to our own hold back. It seems that one needs to be very unrestricted to watch things happen as a result of a pure postulate. Once in a while we can do that but time after time instant postulates would mean we are in charge. I wonder if in fact it is us who needs to causes the delay as it would be very unsettling to find out that our postulates can cause immediate change. It would seem that it is much more palatable for us the see a change take place if it is distanced by time. That way we can keep the lie in tact that we are not in full control. (If such lie should be in effect) If this place is indeed just based upon agreements and we are all contributing to it by postulating it into existence according to preset rules (agreemenets) then to see a postulate take place immediately would prove immediately to the source of the postulate that they can control the MEST universe.
That might be an inconvenient truth. Just thinking out loud here.
Lipton may be “highly trained” but this doesn’t make him right, particularly when many people with at least equivalent credentials think he is wrong.
What I was referring to was his statement that natural selection didn’t account for cooperative or social behavior when even Darwin showed examples of how it did.
As I said, I just watched some of his videos but his factually incorrect statements about natural selection don’t help his credibility as a biologist.
In general, I am not very convinced that adherence to “dogma” is actually a real issue in the scientific community. I’ve read some of Sheldrake’s papers and been unconvinced by his interpretation of his own data (as have been some of his collaborators).
Sometimes if the scientific community doesn’t accept your findings it is because your evidence is not as good as you think it is.
Marty, I am not very familiar with Quantum Theory, but a scientific look at Scientology can only validate its essence.
I am doing now Original OT IV auditing and is just amazing being “back” on the right track after 30 years… (Attested OT VIII in 1989). The right track is what is correct as process for the case of the person and those levels are, so as the one you mentioned, and certaintly the COHA.
I fully agree on the value of the PDC and that those were the years.
I came across two pearls recently one is this from the 3Rd SA ACC Regimen and PreHavingness Lecture 7 – that TOTALLY validates the fact that everything after those years was an undercut:
****
And suddenly I recognized where our takeoff point was. Our takeoff point was from the bottom. It was cases initially cracked, not cases cleared. My attention had been tremendously fixed on clearing, you see, upper-range clearing.
Well listen, you’ve got enough upper-range processes to keep the philosophers busy for the next few thousand years. You have! I mean look at The Creation ofHuman Ability.
Do you realize there’s practically everything in R1 and the early parts of the R2, Route 2,nearly all of that is above anything you’re doing now? It’s way up there, see.
The Philadelphia Lectures take up the anatomy of thetans and constructions of this and that. That’s 1952 and that’s way above where you are, see. We’ve sort ofworked backwards.
See, all of the high punchy material came in early, you know. Now, since that time it has apparently been, or it has been, an effort to undercut the
case level with a process so as to give an actual and real gain to all cases.
****
And the second pearl is this that LRH wrote in 1953 in PAB 2, and I think will clarify a lot on how allucinatory cause and down tone is very much pushed in the INC. :
****
If you think for a moment that it is the purpose of Scientology to produce
something intensely spectacular like a ghost that can move cigarette papers or mountains, you have definitely gotten the wrong idea.
We are interested in well men, we are interested in people with well bodies who think straight and who co-operate on optimum solutions.
We are not making magicians.
There are a great many things which a thetan or the analytical mind can do, but all these, until you are certain of them, belong in the field of para-Scientology and are only interesting data.
We have no interest in their truth or untruth.
If you start filling your pc full of an education about the whole track and electronic incidents and other doubtful things, you are giving him more and more uncertainties and he’ll start on down tone scale.
By giving him a gradient scale of certainties, you will surely and securely bring him up the line to stability.
The actual horrible truth of the matter is that an individual below the level of what we are calling “stability,” will continue throughout the remainder of his life going on down tone scale.
We can make a 4.0 in Dianetics by very arduously swamping up via negative-gain processing the reactive mind, and he will remain relatively stable and with greater longevity, and is as defined in the first book; but we have not put aside the normal course of ageing in the body nor have we completely proofed this individual against the shocks and upsets of existence which would come from new incidents of pain and unconsciousness.
It has been completely overlooked that the first “clear” was a relative thing and definitely not an absolute thing.
It was an intensely hard thing to gauge.
An auditor had to be a very good expert on the subject to produce anything like a 4.0 because the uncertainty in the auditor himself about what he was doing would introduce uncertainties into the pc and so would impede the processing.
I fought this for a couple of years before I got it through my own head that pcs reacted to my certainty, got their recalls back simply because I was certain they would, and were content to drill never beyond their own depth but always in the level of what they could reach when they could reach it.
Thanks Claudio. Great post.
The German quantum physicist and mystic, Michael König published in 2010 the book, “Das Urwort” (“Das Urwort” means “the primordial word”, but the book came out with the title “The Physics of God”).
In it, Konig formulated the premise that our universe is an idea of God. All began with the wish of God that a cosmos with thinking beings should be there. He spoke a word and the universe was started. Consciousness is the center of the universe from which everything is developing. Michael König has further developed the theories of Charon and Heim. In the process, he validated through quantum physics, the experiences of enlightened beings and mystics of the ages as they went on exploring consciousness. With his Urword-theory he aligned the traditional knowledge of the mystical philosophies with quantum physics.
He verified that, in accordance with the traditional Indian philosophy, our entire universe exists out of three primary areas, the material cosmos, the afterworld and the heaven (God, Light World). Through spiritual practice, he says, a person can develop a light body and ascend to higher realms of consciousness. According to him, there will be a golden age in the future, based on the association of spirituality and science. “And God’s light will flood through all people, (…) all love each other, they will laugh and be happy.” (page 265)
Klaus Lange, a mathematician, elaborated upon the theory of Michael König, that God is a high density of energy (light, love, consciousness) in the center of our multiverse. He found physics tests that could be run to confirm this (to these days these tests have not been conducted). He describes these in “Der Mathematiker Klaus Lange zur Urwort-Theorie.” He believes that, when these tests are conducted, science will make a quantum leap.According to him, quantum physics shows that: “ Love is the essence of the universe. Our destiny is not to fight against each other but to build a happy world. We are here to create the paradise on earth and, after we die, go to heaven.
.
Other physicists have asserted that, according to Quantum physics,our thoughts are the language of the universe (the frequency of our thoughts, not the words that we use to describe our thoughts). Its premises are that the Universe/God sends us back exactly what we are asking for. It is not listening to our words though, only to our brain waves. The universe does not judge; it simply returns what we are projecting out with our brain waves. These waves can be measured and represent our consciousness. It is our consciousness that creates our world in the natural. Therefore, thanks to Quantum Physics, “Ask and it shall be given”, once a biblical truism, is now validated as fact grounded in science!
And yes, like you I read Amit Goswami with great attention. Goswami has developer his own philosophy regarding monotheistic idealism. To him, quantum physics shows that everything in the cosmos belongs together, to one consciousness, to God, a worldview very similar to the one advocated by yoga for millennia. In this philosophy, consciousness is the primary substance of the cosmos. Consciousness can be seen as God, as a higher dimension which resides within every cell in our material cosmos. According to Goswami, enlightenment is meant to be the center point of mankind’s thought patterns: we all belong together, we are all connected. We live in one cosmos, and are of one energy. We are all connected in the deepest spiritual sense. When we are aware of this, we can let go of our self-centeredness, and feel what we are meant to feel: unconditional love.
What an agenda! For me, the question then becomes: am I going to talk the talk of Quantum physics, or walk this walk? Especially since it has now been demonstrated that not walking this walk would be going what every molecule in my body is programmed for?
Thanks for bringing up this great topic.
A heightened awareness you would think should cause
a broader view and interest in life and everything around
you, so this increasing narrow-mindedness as some Scio
churchgoers manifest as they go up the bridge shows
what?! IMHO, less awareness. But that is forced on you
by the church. What a push and pull. GPM. Introvert,
extrovert. Yaks, that will give you ulcers and all sorts
of maladies.
What would have happened if Ron just laid down his pen
after publishing the Axioms, Logics, scales and the
processes and how to run them?
Excellent insights, thank-you SA.
Thanks for the great contribution to it.
That would have been too easy! Laughter! David Miscavige has replaced all div 6 staff with robots now. Push the button and cognite! ROBOTISM at it’s height!
There are people who just want to be placed on the circuit board some where and have the “main brain” think for them. “Let someone else think for you, program you, look for you, decide for you, etc etc” is the main “program” robots are running on. Anyone who thinks for them self or wants to hold their own cards is dangerous! Anyone that is running some other program is a menacing particle. What is important is the PROGRAM, not the people.
That is robotism. When the KSW is now a circuit . When every word read in Scientology becomes part of an installed program. When people throw other people under the bus for the sake of keeping the “program” installed. When robots are used to “enlighten” new public. YES! ROBOTS are used to ENLIGHTEN humans now!
SF – Thanks for the input. I don’t say he is right because he is highly trained. I am also trained in science and will state that it is very hard to get research that is “out of the box.” I know studies that are not published because no peer review is done. Right or wrong – if it isn’t selected for review your research isn’t done. Similar issue years ago with Dr. Gallo and Dr. Duesberg at UC Berkeley. AIDs research was ONLY accepted if it included that they must be HIV positive. The stats from the CDC in Atlanta would only allow a physician to report a patient as having Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome if they were HIV positive. They could have every other criteria but that one was mandatory. Duesberg had found people with AIDs that were not HIV positive. The official handling – to remove all funding for his research, rather than look at the facts presented.
If you read more from Lipton and Sheldrake you find the issue is both feel it is the cell wall and receptors that brings about the cooperation and behavior changes. That is the field of epigenetics. It is quite possible that the observations of Darwin were the broader observations of the same factors of the internal cell wall activities.
I agree not all viewpoints are accepted. Personally, I think more research will continue to bring to the fore front the fact that the life force inherent is senior to the mest of the body.
As to “dogma” a problem. I feel anytime dogma is accepted as a fact and introduced into a situation without a determination of whether or not it is true for that situation opens the door to incorrect outcomes.
A quick review of Louis Pasteur vs Antoine Beauchamp (germ theory vs terrain theory) will demonstrate how dogma is treated. Modern healthcare is more and more ending up with research on the side of Beauchamp. But for years any scientist not agreeing with the germ theory was immediately suspect.
At least we have the ability to look, to view and review, and to determine what we find to be true. Within the professional field I think very few working science researchers have that opportunity. As the walls of fixed ideas and dogma come down we will probably see more proof of the validity of theta-mest, and function monitors structure.
With the current billions of profits on the mechanistic or germ theory side it will be a while before we see that type of research. Having several friends in research currently I can tell you that the research is following the money. Big pharma, big ag, DARPA, etc. Their money and funding is currently determining for the most part the only research being completed and made available for peer review. Those few that look outside the box aren’t made that welcome by their fellow researchers whose income and future is at risk. This even makes it harder and take longer to synthesize the valid new concepts from the data, including errors. This is all just part of the game.
David’s program now is: “Please step into the lobby of the Church of Scientology! Where you will be “enlightened” by a ROBOT!”
You have OSA staff running around out here, attacking a Class Xll C/S trained by Hubbard himself! They are working to STOP auditing from occurring by fair gaming auditors! That is right! AUDITORS have become the enemy! WHY? Well, they are not plugged in to the “main brain”. It doesn’t matter anymore that they are CLEARING people! That is NOT the greatest value! Being plugged in to the “main brain” is the highest value!
Yes, I think this is all robotism.
+1
Robotism is NOT just a “Scientology” theory anymore. It’s street knowledge!
Yes, exactly Marildi. That is my ‘bible’ till its complete. Its doing wonders to ‘ground’ me and give me a space to view from instead of ‘splattered’ all over!
I don’t get out and walk but 3 times a week but I am tackling some mechanical repair jobs which is pretty exhilarating when accomplished. Today all I did was get gas for the genny, check the oil and start it up to ensure running in good order. And.. put in a loan app to get a fully operational Class A RV instead of this broken up one which I cannot travel with (looks nice but has many non-functioning parts due to my x’s brain damage from an accident when I had no idea it was so bad off).
And yes, it IS mind over matter!
And yes, we each can influence our lives depending on our considerations.
Thanks for the ack.
Cece
PS When I got thrown in to Treasury Sec post with NO training and not even knowing how to pay a bill or do a bank rec – I quickly saw I seemed to not have enough time to properly get the Division up to Power condition (Ron has a long checklist of what is needed for that). Well I made myself a ‘hat pack’ on every reference I could find on TIME including a Time/Life booklet on the subject and some of the E-Meter essentials etc. I did the pack and was on top of the world getting the div in order. I had nearly every point of the power checklist in in about 6 months including 3 new juniors and even a deputy! I was the only Div Head with a deputy I know of in the 19 years at AOLA. I even went on two 3 week LOAs with all my family (4 kids) during those 5 years. Hatting (understanding) = control. 🙂
I’ve known about this experiment for a while now but I really appreciated the the narration by Morgan Freeman. He is so good he almost re-sold me on this mind fuck. Except even though he is about as good as it gets I was suspicious of the explanation from the time I first heard it. Of course back then I was still susceptible to such outside influence and couldn’t just shake the idea because it came from such highly celebrated minds. Right at the point of assuming that the photon goes through both slits at the same time is where they screwed up. That right there is the mind fuck. If I am right then it is a false assumption which comes from the fact that they think that they are able to see/generate individual photons. That which they think is a single elemental photon is in fact not. A can’t prove it yet but I am working on it.
But just think if I am right and either I or anyone else can prove it in the future, then how silly their idea will look like. Such misconceptions when wide spread can be very harmful to true advancement in science.
Still I loved the video especially because it is one of my favorite proofs of how full of assumptions the field of science is. This theory combined with the Morgan’s highly convincing narration is the perfect formula to sell the misconception to anyone.
(JMO)
Marty,
Although this video maybe preaching to the choir, I found it fascinating. In about 8 minutes this guy will blow any materialist argument to pieces. Enjoy!
Not to mention the heavy ‘professor’ dialect … 🙂 Very authentic stuff.
PD,
Thanks for the post. I like this:
“Other physicists have asserted that, according to Quantum physics,our thoughts are the language of the universe (the frequency of our thoughts, not the words that we use to describe our thoughts”.
This is similar to the Buddhist idea of the ‘sign’. It is the idea that the
words are symbols. I’m sure that there are other semantic
interpretations which hit the same point. The frequency of thought
notion also helps to explain the probability behind the
entropy in the universe derived from chaos theory.
It reminds me of:
“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely
believe they are free” Goethe
Thanks for the great post!
George M. White
Yes, this depersonalization in Div 6 goes right along with
what is happening in the ideal orgs. Of course the beings
(Div 6 staff) are not up to a “big” level so better to replace
them with videos (is it DM speaking in Sherman language?).
And to think I was working on some of these prototypes
of video boxes and thought at that time it was such a good
idea (2003).
Way back (ca. 1979) I gave intro lectures and my auditing
experience helped immensely to get that 100 % sign up
rate as the comm cycle is invaluable. And now, with the
few people trickling in, it would be so easy to handle each
individual on a one on one basis without any pushbuttons.
But no, let’s mechanize the whole set up and show what
Scientology is all about!
Glad you like it. The second video is almost like giant false data stripping. If you watched the first one from about 7 minutes to about 27 minutes – and then, consider the effect of auditing and handling the case issues. There is a much broader understanding of mest, first dynamic regarding our bodies, etc – at least in my opinion.
The biggest problem I had was merely duplicating science WITHOUT any additives of a “fixed idea” that I had been engrained to think with from Scientology. It isn’t that LRH is wrong or science is wrong. When viewed with no pre-conceived idea the truth behind some of LRH’s statements is NOT inconsistent with the truth in modern science. This is not a war of ideas or words. For the benefit of the future of the human race the issues of the physical/MEST universe will need to be resolved at the same time that the issues of the theta universe are being addressed.
Sort of like rudiments – really hard to pick up the cans when one’s body has gone to crap. Our physical body, whether some want to not is or not, is affected day in and day out by the environment. Anyway, enough of my chatter.
Sorry, what is your basis for thinking that Duesberg was right? No one other than Thabo Mbeki seems to agreed and if Duesberg is wrong he has contributed to a lot of death and suffering in South Africa.
And do you have some references to support the idea that germ theory is being overturned?
Again, just because the scientific establishment thinks you are wrong it doesn’t mean you are right.
The effect of sources of funding is not negligible but it is not everything. Unless all drug companies are colluding to keep better treatments from being used then there is a tremendous financial incentive to beat your competitors to the punch if a new theory is going to give you better results.
Likewise, academic careers and institutional reputations are made and Nobel prizes are won by proving the rest of your field wrong.
Even with its flaws, the self-correction in the scientific method works pretty well. If vitalism is being not accepted it is due to lack of evidence and not dogma. The evidence may appear in which case a re-evaluation is in order but the evidence needs to come first.
I think it is fascinating that scientists and spiritualists of today are validating what Ron said 50 years ago and that this line of thinking is becoming more mainstream. It seems to me that the world is moving up a little higher. 🙂
Cece, thanks for the additional comm and inspiration. Great staff success story too. That was also inspiring. I’ve decided to relinquish my membership in the Procrastinator’s Club, whose motto is “One of these days we’re going to get organized,” 🙂
Do you engage in any spiritual betterment practice or study?
SF – I think you are bit reluctant to communicate. Duesberg contributed to NOBODY dead and suffering. The point was the “fixed idea”. Is HIV a factor, yes. It is the only factor, unknown. The impact in South Africa is terrible – but that is no reason to have blocked research into all avenues of how to support the human immune system against this disease.
I won’t bother with germ theory being oveturned as you don’t appear to actually be as interested in facts as the argument. You only wish to base your opinion on published peer reviewed research. Might I remind you that the world – by peer review – was determined to be flat and only a nut would say otherwise. Only once instruments existed to support any other view was it decided to be round. Peer review at its worst is just group agreement. At its best is consensus of fact. Many times it is somewhere in between.
I live in the USA. I can tell you that funding determines what research is paid for PERIOD! If you know of some rich individual paying for funding then great – but here it is a different story. Funding in Education Universities is driven by private funding. Research in private corporations is driven by funding. I did not say it was all drug companies. When a drug that profits billions is kept on the market AFTER the company produces it has evidence that thousands are being killed from it then don’t bother commenting on beating theories to the punch. In many cases the only “beating to the punch” that seems to count is the profit and bonuses to the senior execs. If a few peasants don’t live – hummm…. that wasn’t too clostly in $.
I NEVER said what the evidence appear as. I merely commented on the facts. I am a professional in the health care field – see people living and slowly dying daily. Don’t try and tell me otherwise. Several of my friends are the research staff of major pharmaceutical companies. I never mention any “colluding” – I just commented on the facts.
If you wish to live in the materialistic, german theory is all world – go for it. I believe there is something a little higher in life.
The fact is carbapenem-resistant Enterobacteriaceae (CRE) is a nightmare. There is NO DRUG on earth that works. As a very close friend of mine, currently in pharmaceutical research said – bacteria were here before humans and will be here after. We have NEVER effectively been able to beat their ability as a living organism to adapt to any drug created. Humans will die first.
The fact is that we require either bacterial, yeast or some living organism to fold bacteria in making many of the drugs. Unless you know something we don’t know in the US – then the fact remains that for a protein to be folded correctly requires a LIVING ORGANISM at one or more steps for many of our pharmaceuticals. We (in the realm of science) do NOT know how to make the folding of the protein required for the tertiary and quartenary bond structures. So, a living organism is introduced, makes the fold and is then removed at the stage of producing the pharmaceutical agent.
The only solution is to correct and strengthen our internal bio terrain whereby our bodies ability to adapt corrects the balance.
If I feel that handling ones case, mental disturbances, chemical (nutritional as well as toxin) imbalances and physical stress will help me in my survival toward health then that is what I will do.
I never discounted science but I do not make science and published research the GOD of my world. There is validity in both the vitalistic view and the materialistic view. I am not sure why you insist on resisting this fact. I have no problem with you maintaining your viewpoint. I wish you to have a good future even if it appears to me to be different than the one I envision.
SF – Additional comment. Drug companies make NO money by helping restore help. The money is only made from sickness. Partial help, giving hope, reducing symptoms all make money. If you honestly think about it you will realize there is very little profit in the restoration of health.
What is more profitable?
1. Correcting and removing diabetes? or…
2. Managing a diabetic condition with drugs for the rest of your life.
I believe you are well intentioned to don’t take my debating as otherwise. I just wish you would appear more willing to look at the big picture. Who wins a Nobel prize is not the key. Who makes the important impact on the life on us, here on earth at this time, that is key. I think you must to some degree think this otherwise why would you be here, on this blog. Your desire to persist in your view shows me you believe it. I am not here to force you to think otherwise. I would like, however, for you to desire to understand a broader concept. I don’t know all the answers – in fact I know very few. What I do know is the solutions to many of todays problems will only be found by the honest and true solutions. This requires an honest evaluation of the facts without pre-conception.
I feel this is enough on this subject. I have no intent for you and I to take over the flow of ideas that others may have. If I have done nothing but get you to think in a new unit of time – even if you get the same idea – then I am ok with that. If you are in South Africa, then Goeie môre.
When you get a chance, check out the movie WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW. It really gets heavily into the relationship between Quantum Physics and Spirituality. Plus the Polish Wedding scene is worth the price of the rental alone.
There is also a tremendous financial incentive to keep consumers in a chronic state of unwellness and dependancy.
wayne dyer!
Has anyone read Autobiography of a yogi or any other of Paramahansa Yoganandas writing? He expresses what Paul was talking about. Kriya yogi is said tobe the scientific way to experience god.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Often I have thought that the elephant in the room, that thing that is so big nobody notices it – its just completely taken for granted – is gravity. And, as yin is to yang, there is antigravity. When a ball drops towards the ground and it bounces back up – this is gravity and then antigravity. These two forces are operating on our bodies all the time. In tai chi the practition makes use of both.
SF – I don’t know you. I don’t want you to feel I am just being harsh in my postings. I will assume your intentions are honorable. We may disagree on points in this discussion. I care about people and will assume you do also. I have brought people back to life in a E/R room and know with absolute certainty that a vitalism to live was involved. The patient communicated this personally to me after. I had a person I considered a friend, not a scientologist – in fact a practicing clinical psychologist who taught in a graduate level psychology program. I was the one that found her cancer and saw her for several years as she went through treatment. She died from that condition. But she had incredible conversations with me as to why she had become a full blood brother to a Lakota Sioux Indian chief and adopted their views on live and the hereafter.
I have personally found that there are vitalistic factors as well as materialist physical factors in living life with a physical body here on earth at this time. Just wanted you to know – even if we disagree on some things, there are no hard feelings. Life is too short for that. If you have never read this then enjoy it:
“Character is higher than intellect. A great soul will be strong to live as well as think.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
Marty said: “…..in other words they cannot see spirit, they cannot sense themselves.”
SpecialFrog | April 11, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Reply
“I’m not really sure what you are saying here….”
All “objective reality” must have an element of oneself in it or one would not perceive it at all. To observe and perceive oneself is necessary in order to observe anything or anyone else.
The fact that Co$ threatened auditors for auditing out of their purview is THE number one reason I felt I could not be around them anymore. It seems to be the biggest crime that can be commited in the eyes of Co$ is auditing occurring outside of their maze of STOPS and control-ops. Their imagined monopoly on the human mind and spirit is under direct threat if unregulated field auditing takes place.
Strangely this manufactured threat against auditors is baked into tech and policy so it remains as a power tool for SPs. They are excellent at using policy to thwart purpose and can always be counted on to do so.
Yes oraclemysticism, yes 1000x yes!
Reducing people to computer parts that are running a program to further the goals of the machine. It sucks badly. More so when the program has glaring bugs that are unfixable because the it’s tamper proof. It’s even worse when the SPs running the machine get to hide in plain sight because of the machine’s programming (policy). For an example of how that works find a copy of C/S 121 “Two Types of PTSes”. It can be found in your PTS/SP pack or on the interwebs.
Marty and Mike, you are touching a point which I think is so basic that it can’t be stressed so much with words.
The means became the end because most folk were never introduced to – or had much reality on – the end, Marty said.
From my experience I could alwasy see the peak of the mountain as long as I would do my work and try to get a common denominator of things I was reading from LRH.
I will try to explain this through the Org Board which I love and believe as a means of things which very well demonstrates how bad it can go when the means become the end.
The org board is described in Org Board and Livingness as a philosophical tool. And it is analysed to such a degree, department by department with its awareness characteristics for each and the flow from one to the other.
If one tries to hit for example Orientation or Understandings (Dept 4 and 5) he better have a good grasp of all the previous one (Recognition, Communication and Perception) to arrive to orientation and understandings.
All those quickie things do not lead to any end but make a being desperate and make him start putting more and more attention onto Mechanics (the org board as a mechanism or a body of people, even or the Bridge which is the same thing as The Automatic Path) instead of himself.
Now when you have ALL those broken pieces all around in books and tapes and bridges and org boards and orgs and orders and and and ad infinitum, AND you don’t know the Basics, you haven’t really gotten an idea of the Ideal Scene, let’s say, you are in for failure because right there you depend on mechanics without ANY Thought injected.
Controlling Bodies -1.5 Effort
Protecting Bodies -2.2
Owning Bodies -3.0 Think
Approval from Bodies -3.5
Needing Bodies -4.0 Symbols
From the Phoenix Lectures:
AXIOM TWENTY-FIVE: AFFINITY IS A SCALE OF ATTITUDES WHICH FALLS AWAY FROM THE CO-EXISTENCE OF STATIC, THROUGH THE INTERPOSITIONS OF DISTANCE AND ENERGY, TO CREATE IDENTITY, DOWN TO CLOSE PROXIMITY BUT MYSTERY.
Affinity, in terms of mechanics, is simply a matter of distance. Affinity is basically a consideration, but it does represent itself mechanically. For instance, Total Knowingness goes down to Lookingness. You have to look to find out. Well that’s different from simply knowing without looking. We go down to Looking, now we go just a little bit lower than
that. (This Know-to-Mystery scale is by the way an Affinity scale.) We go into Emotion, and then we no longer have knowledge by looking. We have to have knowledge by emotion. Do we like it — do we dislike it. There are particles in emotion: “I don’t like it” — in other words “I
have some anger particles about it” or “I have some resentment particles” — and by the way a preclear has his reactive mind full of these emotion particles.
Now if I “have to feel it to know it is there”, I’ve gone immediately into Effort. And my affinity for something would be good if I could feel it and it would be no good at all if I couldn’t feel it. You get a Step V, a Black V, who is swearing by mechanics (and swearing at all life forms) and builds atom bombs and such things — and he tells you that he cannot contact life. He can’t contact this thing called the Static, therefore he “can’t believe in it”. This is very interesting. You ask him why, and he says, “Well I can’t feel it.” He’s twisting the snake around so it’ll eat its tail. He’s proving it all upside down and backwards. He says he can’t
get the existence of something he can’t feel. And the odd part of it is that we can measure electronically the existence of life. There is a little meter on which we ran some tests, and we can actually demonstrate that one individual can turn on in another individual at some great distance from him a considerable electrical current, enough to make this little machine sit up and sing. And the other person can turn it on at will, and the person on whom it’s being turned can’t stop it. Here is a manifestation that can be measured. We’ve done the impossible there too. We’ve done the impossible in many places in Scientology. You can’t measure a Static but we’ve done so by having a person, at a distance, bring a mechanic into being.
When a person gets down to Effort on this scale then he’s into a level where he’s “gotta work”, everything has got to be work. He’s got to touch everything and feel everything before
he can know anything. ” END OF QUOTE
LRH goes on down to Effort and Thinkingness and Symbolizingness etc. etc.
It’s fascinating to see how crazy things get at the bottom of the Tone Scale. He says everything there in the Phoenix Lectures.
So you have all those scientists who “have to feel it”. Well, things get worse lower on the Tone Scale. At least they have to feel it. But they can’t see or touch a Static so they are doomed.
And all we are doing in Scientology is getting people to acknowledge the very existence of themselves, a Thetan. From there on in my humble opinion many things have to be worked upon. There is no one button mechanism. Honest word clearing is a basic and I think very neglected and squirrelled. That Symbolizingness Band hounds and will hound as all if we are not going to work on it and get beings through that band.
The Quantum Zeno Effect is probably the first thing a Scientologist should study 🙂
A horribly dull and rather lengthy lecture, but for all that full of valuable considerations, has been given by Henry Stapp and Jeffrey Schwartz at the University of California on the separateness of mind and consciousness from matter. It’s available on youtube, but don’t blame me if you doze off. Henry Stapp demonstrates how a causally closed system like classic physics, in its transempirical nature, can never explain consciousness and he suggests an alternative approach – quantum theory, of course. Jeffrey Schwartz concentrates on the practical application and on how brain circuits can be changed through the stabilizing effect of attention, as described in the Quantum Zeno effect and Hebb’s law. It’s a great reminder that the brain is matter and the mind is not the brain. Those two guys, one being a quantum physicist, the other a neuropsychiatrist, have a very fruitful collaboration going on!
Saying volitional effort, or attention, influences the material realm is almost identical to Hubbard’s statement of considerations ranking over the mechanics of space, energy, and time. I like about Hubbard that he thought of a practical route to deepen ones experience of this truth. In this respect, he was ahead of his time.
I had been wondering in what way, if at all, Scientology differs from just empowering an individual to improve his circumstances. Thanks, Marty, for summing up your conclusions so nicely.
Claudio thanks for the reference and reminding us of the undercut. It surely takes arduous work to get out of this whole thing and LRH definitely knew that. Gradients apply and are very helpful.
yes, Marty.
It feels so good to again go exterior reading your posts and posters coments and links. Like after some good `ol TRs and the Phonix Lectures. Thx for being on the tract to more understanding.
My `BP` for the day is once again full. 🙂
Cece
Be yourself
“Strangely this manufactured threat against auditors is baked into tech and policy..”
So true. Not exactly “spirit of play”, when it’s better not to clear people or audit people if you can not collect some taxes on the cycle.
I think this is exactly why the magic has fled from their possession and control.
What they are holding now is not magical at all. Doctrine, dogma, values, morality, morality disguised as ethics, opinion, politics, and prejudices, soldiers, regulators, executioners, fanatics and close-minded religionists .
Scientology only works and thrives when backed by decent purpose.
+1
Interesting, how again and again we have to be reminded about simple truths in a rather complex descriptions to be able to accept it and later tend to forget it again. Thank you, Marty, for reminding us.
SA,
The second video clip was brilliant. Simply brilliant.
noteach… You are probably one of the few who actually listened. It is a bit long. I believe anybody trained in science would immediately spot how data was just accepted with no test as to truth. I fully agree that the video is brilliant. You would love the entire book – I know I did.
I read a book recently written by a quantum physicist, about losing weight, and it really surprised me how spiritual it was. He did not write it using spiritual but talked about one source of all things and talked about how important postulates were in a person’s ability to get things done. So, I was really excited to read your blog about this. Science and religion are not diametrically opposed at all.
Great, as far as your insight into Scientology: i.e.: “Considerations take rank over the mechanics of space, energy, and time” and relating that to “The Secret” and Quantum Physics. I’m on the same page.
“Reality is the agreed upon apparency of existence” would be a corollary to that, I think.
In practical terms, to make changes or alterations in the actual fabric of physical “MEST” – material reality, physical bodies, etc. (instantaneous healing for example) there needs to be AGREEMENT between the healer and the healed.
Read the New Testament. Jesus never (or hardly ever) healed anyone or performed any miracle without first establishing agreement.
Open any current Scientology volume to the front leaf and you can read: “Neither Dianetics nor Scientology is offered as, nor professes to be physical healing, nor is any claim made to that effect…”
Certainly, in the early days, such “claims” or reports of actual “miracles” abounded. The disclaimer was something imposed from outside, seemingly necessary to avoid harassment or legal actions by the medical establishment.
This is, IMO, something of a contradiction or “out point” in the whole fabric of Scientology, and the beginning of its downfall when it made this compromise.
Is it even necessary?
I don’t believe that any other religion on earth carries any such disclaimers in its “holy writings”. Is there any in Christianity, Christian Science, Buddhism ?
Of course, back then Dianetics was billed as “The modern Science…”
Now that it has seemingly established itself as a bonafied religion it seems to me that this sort of denial of potential for “miraculous” physical healing could be safely dispensed with.
At any rate, it seems to me that if you “AGREE” with and uphold such a disclaimer then you are bound by that postulate.
I might as well say, I’m not a Scientologist, never have been. I just started reading Hubbard’s books a long long time ago, starting back in about 1978 or so. Never got involved with the Church. It seemed things were in upheaval at the time. When I visited a mission I was put under some pressure to take out a bank loan to take some courses. They even offered to have some guy cosign a loan for me. I just laughed.
I’m still on the mailing list and get calls on the phone now and then. Still the same…. After some friendly patter; OK so now what’s your credit card number? I still think the books are great, but there is just something not right about the Church. I’ve sometimes told them that they sound like telemarketers.
When someone calls, I always try to steer the conversation around to “OT abilities” and ask the caller what kind of OT “miracles” they have seen or experienced. The answer is always disappointing. Though I’ve had several callers tell me they were some level of OT and were calling from Flag or wherever. No “miracles” happening there, apparently.
Somehow this seems strange to me in that I’ve had numerous experiences I could relate applying the basic philosophy being discussed here. Not Scientology exclusively but “Creative Visualization”; “Law of Attraction” etc. and almost anybody I’ve ever talked to outside of Scientology, friends, relatives and acquaintances can come up with some “miraculous” experience they’ve had.
There are the “Wild tales from the other side of OT” in the back of Advance! that comes in the mail sometimes which I enjoy reading.
One account that struck me as interesting was a woman who claimed to have left a building and stepped off a curb and didn’t notice till the last moment that she had stepped in front of a truck. There was no time to do anything about it, she thought that the only way she could avoid being hit was to go back in time to a previous moment before she left the building. She says that’s what she did. From the door of the building she then watched the truck driver screech to a halt and jump out of the truck thinking that he hit her. She walked back across the sidewalk and told him it was OK she was fine.
I might be inclined to dismiss such a tale outright if I had not experienced something similar myself.
I think that perhaps the problem in general may be that many people think that auditing will somehow make them superhuman with no effort on their part, considering that “OT abilities” should arise as an effect of auditing. They pay enormous sums of money to become an effect and nothing much happens.
I think it is a matter of being “muscular minded”. There is no development without exercise. Developing the faculties of concentration, visualization, will, etc. The mind has to be strong and flexible. I don’t think auditing alone necessarily accomplishes that.
Instead of going “OT” you end up a telemarketer, apparently.
I am way behind in reading this blog so my comment is late.
This what I have been trying to tell you guys since I started to post on this blog and I got nailed for it. The Resource Based economy works along the same lines as these things and it is based on exchange by dynamics in the fullest sense of the definition of it.
Technology is not going to stop and I have seen the quantum physics relation to the tech for a long while now. I had to sit out here waiting for some of you guys to catch up to me. I am not be a super duper auditor but I do like to learn and read and study all kinds of things.
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Well said: I must admit the more I read about the progress made in the theoretical and empirical physical sciences, the more that validates what LRH described (and previously also indicated in such scriptures as the Veda several thousand years ago). Quantum mechanics (and the theories of relativity) first reported in the scientific literature a little over 100 years ago has always fascinated me since being at school … however to now see that the physical sciences have gone full circle and now fundamentally challenge the materialist paridigm held for the past few hundred years on our voyage through the industrial revolution is so fulfilling and validating for living beings that it is imperative that this information is disseminated far and wide!!!