Some have registered protests in the comments section to my sometimes being cryptic. In particular, recently some folks thought this origination by me was too mystical to grok:
The solidity of the universe is created by energy of opposite opposing forces. We don’t have to be governed by them. Let’s not. The dichotomies are a bitch – and as long as we fixate on identification (particlarly our own) it becomes a progressively worse bitch.
I was invited to elaborate, or explain myself.
I’ll give it my best shot.
Answer one:
If you listen to Hubbard’s lectures and read the books on the Academy Levels auditor training there is no need for further explanation.
If you read the Scientology OT II materials there is no need for further explanation, except perhaps to help clarify technical mechanics from mythology.
If you read the Tao of Physics there is no need for further explanation.
If you read, and contemplate the Tao Te Ching, there is no need for further explanation.
To those who are not inclined to take me up on the reading recommendations I periodically offer on this blog, here is
Answer two:
The reactivity of humans is largely brought about by their mistaking the physical universe for themselves. The more one clings to, relies upon, and validates the laws of the physical universe as controlling spirit, the greater the confusion.
The physical universe is made up of ever-changing, exchanging and converting energies. Those energies consist of attracting and repelling (or positive and negative) forces; sometimes referred to in Scientology as ‘dichotomies’. Those forces can be affected by spirit. They can also affect spirit, but only if spirit considers they can.
Perhaps the greatest factor in convincing spirit that it is effect of the physical is its proclivity toward assuming an identity, a physical being. The more one mocks up the reality of the identity, the deeper he becomes enmeshed into and acts at the effect of the physical universe.
If one really wants to lose sight of his or her own spiritual nature and become thoroughly entrenched into the physical, the most sure-fire method is to act as if one is part of the physical universe. In other words, start playing the positive/negative charge game for keeps. The way to make it more and more solid and irreversible is to get real enamored with one’s identity and start to oppose other identities one considers a threat to that identity. Mocking up of energy flows between such terminals creates more and more solidity and fixidity. Before long opposing forces close in on one another so firmly that they become a bigger one, i.e. that which you resist, you become. More solidity, more fixidity, more mass, more confusion, more force, more violence. And, though one would not think, less identity, less individuality, less free thought, and more ‘gee, we’re all one homogenous flock of sheep after all.’
If one reads Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior, one might see how these factors even prevailed upon a subject that was originally intended to free folk from them.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Love it.
Number of times …
I’m delighted that some might have found your answer too cryptic because in the retelling you have helped me to see again, just how wrong-headed it is to “KNOW” that one is a “solid immutable thetan” who will return lifetime after lifetime as him/herself with NEW experiences.
NOTHING could be further from the truth, as far as I understand it. DO we live again and again? — yes. Do we live again and again as an IDENTITY — not so much.
This is perhaps one of the biggest confusions I believe every scientologist I’ve ever spoken to has — because they are alive today, with various identities they MISTAKENLY think this is what will be reborn.
What is reborn IS consciousness/awareness NOT a solid separate self.
UNLESS one has become a MEST object before dying then it’s up for grabs 🙂
Christine
Yup, the physical universe is a conundrum. Simultaneously a confusion and a stable datum, it becomes a mystery to a thetan.
It is so interesting that one wants to go into it and experience existing as it. And there’s the rub – once you’re in the Physical Universe and existing as it, it’s hard to see your way back out of it and to stop “being” it.
The self is a product of the mind.
The mind is constructed of self-consistent reinforcing interlocked concepts filtering the chaos of perception. A closed system to create an understandable universe that can be communicated about. Only one of countless possibilities.
Makes sense to me. The ability to be pan-determined and look at other points of view (aka identities) fluidly and with ease. This seems like the ability one would want and would be the sane way to live.
Oh, and you build a new one every lifetime to operate within the realities (physical and cultural) of the times. Too many stuck pictures of earlier realities and identities and you won’t function very well. And in some cases not at all.
Bravo, Marty! As I was saying for a while now, dedicating oneself to fighting DM is just an abuse and misuse of the thetan’s precious present moment creation abilities. LRH’s answer to suppression was to flourish and prosper and that is fully applicable to the spiritual realm: flourish and prosper spiritually. Like Marty says, moving on up a little higher!
Thanks Marty for this brief and beautiful commentary. It’s quite profound.
One of the most startling and enlightening experiences I gained through LRH’s work was the realization (cognition) that everything IS a consideration.
The other was actually seeing how energy takes the form of flows, ridges and dispersal’s and how they, these energy manifestations, weave their way through the full tone chart.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
Great 🙂
In other words, stop ridging so damn much and things will lighten up around you.
Thank you Marty for the post and Christine for your contribution. Feels good to contemplate this viewpoint. And even tho the “next life future” may be unknown, the infinite possibilities are exciting. My fear of that “unknown” — something l got into Scientology to help resolve — has diminished significantly!
Humm, partially this could also be from the fact that
since the late 70’s a lot of Scientologists moving up
the Bridge are missing out on the earthshaking
cognitions that can come out of Power, Power Plus
and R6EW. Short of all the realizations that these
levels can produce, just digging into LRH writings
can get you to realize what Marty is saying above.
50% of the gains in Scio do really come from the
study of the subject. It would benefit anyone who
is Dn Clear to study up on the skipped levels as
they transcend up on the Bridge.
Does this suggest that the dilusional manchild may come back as an Ideal Ogre?
I really do appreciate all that you are writing and sharing with us. I find it very helpful and I thank you for it.
Tom, This reminds me of a time I was stuck on OTlll. I went in for a review session because it looked like I was spinning my wheels and getting nowhere. My big question was .”.if I am a thetan and I am static, then why in the hell do these things get stuck on the nonphysical me?” After it went to the CS and came back to me the answer simply was..”.Consideration! “I didn’t voice it at the time but my thought was,,,”then why am I not auditing out my considerations? ” Love, Sarge
Thanks for the answer.
Marty, I think at least some of the confusion from yesterday’s post has to do with the definition of ‘identity’. If I understand you correctly you meant identifying as something other than the spirit. For instance the body, the man in the mirror. Or part of it, anyway. Donald Trump probably identifies as his hair. A few women I know identify as their breasts. A little more or a little less there and they would be a whole new woman. Or, identifying with personality characteristics. I’m the one who is brave, timid, tough, clever, charming, hard-charging, laid back (the list goes on).
Now, how about you doing TRs and observing the course room from near the ceiling? Did you not IDENTIFY that it was actually you up there and not some kind of remote viewing mechanism? So, by my definition you had an identity there. There is a lot that can be included or excluded with that word, and not everyone will understand it the same way.
And I know that it is possible to transcend even that. I’ve been exterior with the distinct impression that I was seeing the world as if I wasn’t in it. In fact there was no ‘I’ involved in that impression, it was just seeing what was. It didn’t happen every time though, only once. And if I hadn’t had that experience, I would have a hard time really duplicating someone else’s description, even if I had read your memoirs, all of Hubbard’s books and the Tao Te Ching (which I have).
Marty, great explanation. I am reading Bruce Liptons book “spontaneuos Evolution” My tone level about the future has definitely gone up. Everyone should read this book..It will definitely move us on up a little higher.
I have been out of scientology for quite some time, but wasnt one of the lower grades moving out of the fixed conditions in life?
By the way Marty your answer number one comes across like a make wrong. My guess is most ex’s who studied the Academy levels (I did) wouldn’t understand your response that I querried. Also there are a lot of people who follow your blog that never studied any of the things you mentioned.
Putting things out in layman terms is only beneficial to you and your purpose would be my guess.
Answers don’t need to be time consuming or elaborate to be understandable.
Thanks for doing what you have done to enable others to deliver more easily outside of the RCS.
And another flow, how about allowing others to move out of fixed conditions?
Marty, I just reread my last comment and I think you need to pull it. Thanks, Sarge
Someone recently told me about this book:
http://revelatorium.moorelife.nl/
I would say it is another book to add to the list Marty made in this blog.
Chapter Stargram 18 on the “Fountain of Youth” is particularly interesting.
Dio
Marty! Just finished the book and wanted to say THANK YOU !
Sarge, I want to post it.
Nice. Yes, my descriptions were – to a large extent – from my viewpoint at that time. There has been some evolution and transcendence in point of view since then.
Reminds me of something my father used to say to me, ‘you’d bitch if they hung you with a new rope.’
Marty, Its ok with me, but it could have been worded better me thinks. Love, Sarge
I think it speaks volumes my friend.
Maybe so.
All I know is that I used to follow where you were heading or at least where I thought you were heading.
Now you kind of come across as some sort of a Guru. That knows all and sees all. Kind of hard to relate to.
This is the reason I left the church of scientology in 2003, also the reason I refused to join the sea org in 1990 , because I being pushed to agree to be a body, an identity . I just could not agree to that and I was right not to go along with it.
Today the Church of Scientology is all about status symbols , if members donate huge sums of money they are given a status symbol showing that they are an important piece of meat to be looked up to, that is not freedom .
Have you read any book on my recommended reading list?
Last time I tried a conversation I got a “whatever” BUT I’m going to try …
Years ago when my ex would listen to the PDC in our car while traveling through Europe I would pass out. I couldn’t understand ANY of it – It was complete gobbley gook – I gave up understanding the PDC and when friends would rave about the PDC Course at the AOLA I was sure they were lying.
Years went by – I started listening to the OT Hatting Lectures and then one time I drove from Houston back to Clearwater and I brought the PDC to listen to.
Somehow, I understood them. I had no idea why they had been so incomprehensible – AND since I was driving I wasn’t looking up words 🙂
I don’t think Marty is being pedantic or preachy – nor does he try or want to be a guru IMHO – he’s just talking about stuff you might not be that familiar with – or perhaps interested in.
I’ve noticed your comments on another blog and you seem in sync over there – which is perfectly fine and shows me that your heart is very much with wanting others to benefit from the truth of LRH –
You seem to be the first one willing and able to call the BS of radical Scientology you dropped that game and left!
Meanwhile, I’m holding my breath for … Whatever 🙂
Christine
Good to hear from you Sarge.
Yes, I perceive all of the horseshit that abounds as nothing more than considerations, that upon view, or better yet inspection, they literally go away or maybe better stated, disappear as an imposing energy force.
Life is actually such a beautiful thing.
Then again, ones life can be a self imposed shit-storm. All a matter of considerations.
All my best wishes.
Aeolus, yes , thanks for insisting on definitions of terms and words used as it’s always an obstacle for people to understand. Not just for foreign language students (lol) like me. That was what I appreciated about Ron and what we should be learning about and doing more and more: being understood by (almost) anybody if we want to have some folks to listen to us.
Tony bear with Marty. I think I follow you. As a foreign language student I have quite some problems too. But I think he will understand eventually. Is one thing to be an author and another one to be hmmm… how shall I say it? Easily understood by the masses.
In case it’s not clear — this comment was directed to Tony – somehow it came underneath Marty’s comment.
what responsilibity can we take about this?
Tony, with all do respect, didn’t he, Marty, provide an alternative answer for the unwashed, thoroughly, with answer number 2?
I don’t know what all the confusion’s about. MR has been beating the same drum since the inception of this blog.
Perhaps folks should re-read 31 factors.
As you are probably aware, there is an increasing awareness in the public and the media on mental illness.
I think the more able amongst ex scntgists and fz scntgists, should be making themselves known in non scn language and non scn ways, that there is real help available. And doing everything possible to offer their services.
If you can’t build a better bridge, and do it in your own words and own ways, a bridge without holes and missing planks, where pc can fall through, you flunked scn.
The ideal new bridge, should actually have little resemblance to scn.
In order to do this, you have to understand and do the data in “how to study a science” to the fullest degree and full spirit of the meaning.
That means to study and evaluate all data of comparable magnitude to scn.
You have to do like Ron did. Study and evaluate everything that came before him, that helped man understand himself and those around him. All the work of 50,000 yrs of thinking men who strived to help man become more able. To help man reach his full potential. To help resolve the problems of life and the problems of the mind. Data that helped man enter the Kingdom of the Father.
One of the most significant missing pieces in scn is the Jesus factor.
Jesus said: No man cometh on to the Father, except through Me.
Based on my experience, and evaluation, that holds true.
Dio
Well said.
More on Tape: #6110C18 SH Spec-68 VALENCES―CIRCUITS
Now listen here young man… Stop making everything so simple… We need things to be complex so we can keep “helping” everyone ya here!
😉
“The identity of a theta being is not based on his memory of events but on an actual knowledge of identity.” (LRH, History of Man, 1952)
Nothing wrong with identities themselves, but fear of losing, having to have, stuck to other, or must be one, etc.
If you can freely waste them, you’re probably all set.
Well, that’s the business model. By the way, I ain’t young.
Curious why you did not also include the great prophet Muhammad, Guru Granth Sahib and Lord Krishna?
“I know no man who has the monopoly on the wisdom of this universe. It belongs to those who can use it to help themselves and others”
That is a quote
Well said Marty.
Then there are the hidden dichotomies. For instance, having an auditor in communication with two terminals at once is in itself dichotomy. The P.C. is talking to the auditor at the same time the emeter is talking to the auditor. That violates the two terminal communication formula right there.
The auditor is set up to be in communication with the emeter and the P.C. at the same time. The way the tech has been taught more recently.
In the beginning, Hubbard started at the bottom and worked his way up. And he started without an emeter. He was clearing people by watching and listening to only them. The client was the only thing in front of him that mattered. He had this foundation, and it was not conveyed to others.
They were trained to study the meter, keep meticulous records, repeat words not of their own mind or curiosity. They became hugely dependent .
They did not have the same gradients or the same foundation.
Properly trained, I would think someone would start without a meter. Just so they could get accustomed to being there comfortably without crutches in front of someone else, and having to LOOK and LISTEN as first drill. And help from the platform of a care factor.
The meter should only be used as a tool of assistance to the P.C., NOT the auditor. As in helping the P.C. find items etc etc. Auditors are set for TR’s but end up confronting through other vias. Paper, pens, notes, instruments with dials. etc. All of those things are helpful but should be secondary and taught as secondary.
Tony – I would like to give you a demonstration of what I see Marty has written about. For the noise of anti A, pro A, anti B, pro B to continue each side has taken a stand and opposing the opposite view. Without a lot of comment from me I believe this video will demonstrate what happens when a person merely stops holding that opposing view. I wish the scientology world of never in, still in, ex, etc could all see that this continuing opposition could end quickly. It merely requires each of us to stop putting the other person up as an opposition.
I do not mean to be cryptic. I am not sure, as I don’t see you, and have never met you how well you get what I am saying. Please just watch the video and see what happens when in one’s personal universe the stop creating the opposition is applied.
A bit long but worth every second, IMO:
Of course not. It makes total sense. That is the reason the name of the blog is “Moving On Up A Little Higher”. I have known this for a while. And I selected Marty’s blog because: 1. He has the experience worth hiring.
and 2. I thought he was a nice guy when he was *IN* the Sea Org and I saw a picture of him one time. So, a lot of the things that people say on this blog (aside from their proximity to their near physical universe relatives 🙂 ) in my opinion, are not to sensible. But sometimes, somebody makes sense. 🙂 There can be other people that were never in the Sea Org that can be pretty smart too! 🙂
I thought that was good thing, to know and see? That is why so many people started reading this blog. To find out what Marty knew and had seen.
This is why you read Mike Rinder’s blog, to find out what Mike has seen and knows.
What happened, is the the main TOPIC here shifted from politics and reporting of current events, to philosophy and social sciences.
I think you are just more interested in the politics. But you haven’t lost anything or anyone. Mike is now covering politics and current events. Yes. all of us with investments in the Scientology theater are keenly interested in that. Especially the illusion as it is stripped away. We actually have a RIGHT to know the truth. As investors that right was denied us although the Church carries fiduciary trusts. We hope for justice.
However, now you have MORE, not LESS. Because you have two blogs covering two different topics.
Marty has not changed. The main topic here has changed.
Marty doesn’t seem to shape shift, as the topics shift, to me. He is still the same person.
Maybe these topics are just not your highest interest items.
I get this sense that you think something has been broken, and needs to be fixed.
But I think you just preferred the politics when it was coming from Marty.
I think you are very curious about politics and social dynamics and social intercourse . So am I.
Marty FORWARDS knowledge from other people he has found.
That does not classify HIM as a guru, and he has never come off that way to me. He only asks that people try to integrate the information and connect into a big picture.
However, I have heard that enemy line before. That Marty is trying to become the new Guru.
And I realize there are people out here that are pissed off that Marty should matter to anyone, or make anyone else matter, or make writers or other philosophers matter.
Because on this planet, anyone who makes themselves and others matter, is a danger to society.
In certain circles, only the preacher and the Bible and “God” are supposed to matter. Everyone else’s duty is to obey. And NOT matter!
By the way Tony, if this blog and some of the ideas published here were not very interesting, the gross PLAGIARISM that is occurring now, would not be happening.
In that ideas and themes and postulates put forth on this blog, are being copied, reworded, and “spoken” from the “New Gurus” on other blogs and forums.
Yes, I received four emails last week myself, from people showing me how someone had taken one of my theories from here, reworded to make it “their own” on another forum.
So I can just imagine how creeped out Marty is!
To see theories he was attacked for posting here, reworded by the attacker and placed out there as his own, on another blog!
There are plenty of people interested is philosophy, all religions, science, social science, when you find yourself COPIED and such flagrant PLAGIARISM.
There’s a lot of truth to what you are saying here. A lot of this theme is covered in my next book, which treats integration, evolution and transcedence in greater depth.
Hey Marty,
My dad used to say something similar. He’d say, “You’d bitch if they hung you with a gold rope”
His other common expressions of sympathy were, “Awww, my heart’s pumpin purple piss for ya.” and the ever popular response to injury, “I had my peter skin’t worse than that!”
Christine, I haven’t talked to you for a while. HOWDY! I lost your e-mail address when they closed my hushmail acct. If you would like to say Hi via e-mail, just ask Marty for my address. I’d post it here but there have been too many shady customers lurking about lately. Love, Sarge
To answer Marty’s question, No I haven’t read any of your recommended reading, but I have read your earlier two books.
I am sorry if I sound overly harsh towards Marty. He deserves better than that. My bad.
To be truthful I got very disappointed when Marty said it was never his intention to fight dm, when I brought it up on his blog once. Then he pretty much got off of the politics as the Oracle pointed out. My main interest is in seeing the cult unmocked. I want to see justice served. I also am interested in seeing the tech move forward in a positive manner and wish to support those who are doing that.
Somewhere along the line Marty changed tactics or whatever. That’s cool. It’s his right. It was just a loss for me. I’ll get over it.
And no Christine, you won’t get a “whatever” from me unless you say pretty please. 🙂
Hi Oracle,
I never said that the ideas here are not interesting. I might not be all that interested in more philosophising ( I have some ) but I assume others are very interested.
Our fathers would have gotten along admirably.
Marty could you possibly post a book list of the books you have reccomended throughout your blogs? Or mabe you have and I have missed it. thanks Gretchen
Damn it Marty, I had to look up the word grok!
The key ones – most several times referred to in posts and books – are listed in the ‘recommended reading’ tab on the home page of the blog.
Beautiful, buddy. I have renewed hope for the potential of people of good will using social media to heal the world.
I think you have a duty to see the cult unmocked. Like, a duty. I was HAUNTED for days after I left Seattle by the story I heard from you and your wife. That was one of the sickest incidents of mind fucking and spiritual RAPE I have ever heard. I can’t begin to imagine what a mind fucking experience that was for you, and your wife. It makes me want to cause a scene.
What happened to you, should be illegal. That kind of abuse should be illegal. You have every right to insist this does not happen to other people. A duty. A lesser person could have ended up jumping off the causeway. There is probably a body count we don’t even know know about. That is the kind of stuff that drives people to suicide. I am not sure I would have survived something like that.
I have the deepest respect and admiration for you and your wife for holding it together and holding yourselves together, against the backdrop of that torture, abuse, wrong items, wrong indications and injustices. That was straight up licensed and endorsed sadism.
It was HUGELY therapeutic to watch the noisy investigation unfold on this blog. To get the truth revealed. Marty must have gotten thousands and thousands of tone arm divisions, because SO many people came back into the fold and came back on lines and on the bridge as a result of seeing SOME form of SANITY appear in this theater.
The results of that far reaching planet wide! That people are practicing now and there are a few AO’s is amazing. We could have NEVER seen this happen if it were not for heat Marty and Mosey took.
That we have been a witness to this incident in this life, that has been invisible to others, amazes me. In my own lifetime to see a religion born and die, and all of the factors that played into it, was a monumental lesson in social intercourse.
To see two people hold their position against all of David’s available forces, was a magical event in itself.
It may seem the effective blows given to DM have altered in effect and there is just a slow, very slow decay we will have to tolerate to see an end to the this madness.
However, I can assure you, there is a storm in front of DM. There is always a perfect calm before the storm.
Meanwhile, I will never forget, that you were and are, one of the 300. XXOO
And your allegiance and power flow to Marty and Mosey, that also made it all possible.
Then there are the social dichotomies created for P.C.’s within the movement.
It started with “Flag has the best tech” “Flag can handle all of your failed cases.” “Flag has a case cracking unit” “Flag has the only class Xll’s”
“Flag only rundowns”.
Pitting groups against one another with “quality standards and resources”.
Making people choose where to get “the best service”.
Now Flag is scouring the Class lV Orgs trying to sell grades!
Out here it starts with “The Independents are the only ones delivering 100% standard tech” (Not true by a long shot, I have seen “read it drill it do it”method used to put someone on the OT levels, no set ups).
Or, “Our tech is better than your tech”.
As Ray Krenik just wisely posted on a forum:
“By the way, CONTACT, HANDLE, SALVAGE and BRING TO UNDERSTANDING is a much better way to disseminate to potential students and Pcs rather than the 3rd party dirty game of “Our tech. is better than your tech.”
People set up these opposition groups. But it was started with the Flag branding.
Before there was a Flag Land Base, everyone in the Orgs and Missions were getting along great! Co existing is short distances from one another.
Groups become dichotomous. Especially in religion. Where you have sections branching off from the main axis.
The “main axis” was just the tech until the Flag Land Base was established.
Then it was not about the tech anymore, but the LOCATION and the STAFF that made it superior or inferior. While they used interns from outer Orgs in their H.G.C. charging inflated prices!
Beautiful. Powerful.
Definitely worth every minute.
Wow.
It’s all about communication.
“Something can be done about it!”
Marty, thanks. Definitely things are better understood when they are a bit analysed. Still reading the book.
By the way as I am on the chapter with Edgar Hoover and the manipulations of the APA, AMA etc.
I would suggest you post a post here so we could comment and ask questions on the book. Instead of having Tony Ortega making only reviews we can ask questions and this would be very important. thank you.
Conan, you should read ‘Stranger In a Strange Land’ by Heinlein. Many people believe the main character in that book was inspired by LRH. And you will definitely grok ‘Grok’.
Marty it is clear you have decided to adopt, “that which you resist, you become” as a sort of mantra to live by. That’s fine, we can all adopt whatever we dictums we want and make it a personal philosophy.
However I would like to state again that LRH stated this differently in the PDC Lecture as “That which resist (fight) you become-If you lose”.
I get that you have stated already that this statement from LRH is a false datum.Ok, but how does your shortened version become true and more applicable?
So what I get from Ron is- Take on an enemy if you choose but once you have decided to do so go all the way and take the fight to a win and in this way you don’t go into valence of you enemy.
If the mouse decides he has had enough and knocks the living Jesus out of the cat he does not become the cat. You are however likely to have a cat that now says, “ squeak,squeak!”.
Should have been….” that which you resist (fight) you become -if you lose”
First you have book one – no meter. Then ARC Straight Wire –
hardly any meter needed. Then somewhere in there the Objectives
– no meter (yes, the ruds and EP). Then Grade O – not much of
an e-meter needed. And on up it goes with more and more skills
of this tool.
Two terminal universe does not necessarily mean dichotomies,
as they do not need to be opposing each other. Not like bad –
good, destruction – creation, atheist – religious etc.
Grade II re problems with 2 forces opposing each other with
equal forces is a very good study as is R6EW.
I think Dan said it very well above (…lighten up…) and things
will break loose.
An earlier Marty’s blog about the middle road covered this
quite well. Anything that is fixed gets quite solid, like DM’s
mind.
Thanks. I checked it out, yes the synopsis is eerily similar.
Michael there is nothing wrong with deciding to go after DM, but if a group or individual decides to take that job on go all the way and see that he removed from the church or ends up in jail for fraud or other crimes. Just win the fight!
One thing I think we can all agree on is that this blog seems to have changed over time, it seems to attract many former scientologists and more recently has attracted “never-been-scientologists” and it appears to be the “go-to” place for critics, indies, ex’s etc …
I’ve been trying to distill what the attraction OR antipathy might be and I’m going to give it a shot:
Marty has been bit by bit, deconstructing the BELIEF in scientology …
Does this mean he is deconstructing the METHOD of scientology (those methods that are workable and stand the test of time).
NO.
I find when I get irritated with someone about scientology it is MY perception of their BELIEF in scientology. Their own “sacred cows” or “stable datums” – most of which are beliefs.
In my own life, I try to view what is a BELIEF versus what is a method for leading a happier more fulfilled life.
Deconstructing beliefs I believe requires someone (a friend even an enemy) to POINT OUT — whoa — that’s some belief you’ve got going.
And then it’s up to me to work to see … wow, that wasn’t not an inherent truth, it’s a belief.
No matter how logical, intelligent, even workable that belief might be.
Marty is just pointing to the moon …
As any good friend should do.
Christine
When you muster enough courage to stand and speak as yourself I’ll engage with you on the subject.
Seems that quite a battle has been raging since I last checked in.(Has it really been over 2 years already?)
Pleased to see that so many are still debating the issues,writing on matters of concern, following their chosen paths toward personal enlightenment and attempting to enlighten others.
Thanks everyone for being here. Life is great!
The Path
…
On all the paths I’ve taken
I have walked as straight a line
as the ditches would allow me
and when all the steps were mine
I have sometimes tripped and fallen
I have often stopped and stared
at the road that was behind me
thinking somehow that it cared
That it cared that I had walked there
and would somehow tell the tale
of all the times I turned my back
and all the times I failed
Oh how the road behind us
reaches out to halt our stride
and how we search behind us
when what’s threatened is our pride
So whenever you look down and see
you’re going the wrong way
bring your thoughts back to the present
they won’t work in yesterday.
Or, it is just simply that Scientology is schizophrenic because Hubbard had conflicting goals and purposes.
It is a science of the Mind or a Religion?
It is about help or it is about money?
It is a new and improved Dharma, or it is a totally miraculous creation of LRH as the sole Source?
It is about restoring Self determinism or following LRH command?
It is about spiritual counseling for the person’s sole benefit or behavior modification through security checking and invasive ethics for the Church’s benefit?
It is about freeing people or subjecting its members to slave like conditions?
It is about bringing a new understanding to humanity or waging war against anybody who dares to criticize it?
It is about creating a new Golden Age on Earth or setting a foothold for a new and improved Galactic Federation base?
There is no way to rationaly “fix” it , justify or explain away the above insanity.
It has to first be confronted as is.
It is not my person that is important. It is whether or not an idea I submit makes sense or not.
My name sits right there for anyone to see on the Indie 500 list. That along with writing to Flag and stating my opposition to DM is what got me declared an SP.
You name?
Bullshit. Part of the purpose of this blog is to graduate cult members from their ingrained talking the talk without walking the walk. Your ‘experiences’ shift like the summer breeze, as do your ‘ideas.’
Therefore, I feel if have stood up, although I would not necessarily characterize myself as courageous for having done so.
I love you Oracle.
Friggin amazing. Thanks SA.
ax – Hello and welcome back. Just grab a plate and squeeze onto the bench. Always room for another at the picnic of life. Each has a valuable piece of input from their viewpoint and experience. There is plenty to go around and newcomers can get the view spread of treats. That is one reason why I find this place valuable.
🙂
It is the inner person I think you are addressing Marty. If we fight injustice with hate, anger etc. then we are projecting a shadow in that fight. But it at the same time that doesn’t mean we are creating the injustice that we are relating to. The shadow is our own negative mental definition of the moment.
To be calm and unconditioned, non identified with the conflict, we can stand up for a principle and fight a righteous battle. That is authentic integrity and a sign of greatness. We are unconditioned by the conflict, meaning we are still in touch with decency and love while embroiled in a conflict. Like a samurai.
If the inner man/women is calm and centered while in conflict externally, we can say there is no conflict within the mind and therfore no conflict.
Yet living in a world based on duality and conflict, it is also untrue to assume that conflict between people is soley in the mind.
Is it soley in the mind:yes, is it not just mind: yes. That is a true dichotomy.
The subjective and objective world sometimes operates on different principles.
A gun is pointed at my head is different from the fear of a gun pointed at my head. Yet it could be true that the fear of a gun pointed at my head created a subtle magnetism whereby I attracted the situation to be experienced. That is if you believe in that sort of spiritual mumbo jumbo: which I do, because I have seen these laws operating in my life.
But once the gun has arrived, the rules of the game have changed. It has ceased being a mental problem and now requires an approach with a little more teeth than positive thinking or philosophy.
It all boils down to seeing the good in all. If we see the good even when the other does not, then there are no shadows. Just opportunities to learn, grow and become liberated from the automaticities of mind and emotions.
And the opportunity to right an injustice in the real world of solid smoke and mirrors: civil society
That always bugged me too. Almost like a tech degrade on the other orgs and the missions. And my experience was that service and tech at FSO was pretty awful.
And here you go, there is more:
It is about restoring free communication to the being or the injunction against talking about one’s case and the “security” of the upper level materials?
It is about bringing Enlightment and Knowledge to the common folks or creating a Mystery cult?
It is about a gift to Mankind or a copyrighted Monopoly?
Scientology has a long way to go before it redeems itself as a useful spiritual practice.
Nice, Oracle!
KFrancis: I went through all 500 names and didn’t find a KFrancis … I found a Kay Proctor #194 — is this you?
I’m #366 —
Christine
This post starts a lot of very nice flows.
“If one really wants to lose sight of his or her own spiritual nature and become thoroughly entrenched into the physical, the most sure-fire method is to act as if one is part of the physical universe. ”
This is surely a universal truth and finds application in even the most simple
forms of meditation.
The entire post also reminds me of the book “Buddha’s Brain” which was
once recommended on this blog. I had a programming assignment
recently to write code for the development of a computer generated
mind. It is something that is very hot in the business at present. Why
do we ever want to make computers conscious?
Sincerely,
George M. White
Christine are you willing to try and accept me on the merits of my communication? I ask that honestly.
From the Samyutta Nikaya,
“Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: ‘We will develop and cultivate the liberation of mind by lovingkindness, make it our vehicle, make it our basis, stabilize it, exercise ourselves in it, and fully perfect it.’ Thus should you train yourselves.”
Marty, sorry that I am off the subject here but reading your book page to page I really feel there is a need to talk about those things too, like what you are saying that Ron did not deserve to be forced to die alone. That’s a great thing to hear it like that. I never thought of those things in such depth and the extent of them.
This is circular – in that you said you were open about who you are and can be found on Indy 500 – I spent the time looking and found no KFrancis and asked if you were Kay Proctor?
I don’t know either person, so all I can accept is the honesty of communication which I believe goes … Ask a question – get an answer.
If you feel – “are you willing to accept me on the merits of my communication.” as the answer to my question ” are you Kay Proctor” … Then based on that as your answer I would have to say … No … I’m unwilling to accept you on your communication since it doesn’t seem particularly honest to me.
I am completely OK with people who for whatever reason do not want to come forward with their real name – however when someone states they are fully “exposed” on the Indy 500 and then refuses to say yes or no – well seems duplicitous to me.
Sorry. Perhaps at a later date we can meet on the same page.
Christine
So now we are applauding these sayings that are “no sympathy”, Make Wrong, and a standard SP Tactic of “Anything bad that happens to you is nothing.” How Bizarre!
Marty and crew, I like things simple. That stated, I’ll assert that this current discussion can be boiled down to the argument-
‘I AM A SCIENTOLOGIST!!!!!!!!!’ versus ‘I practice scientology’.
N’est–ce pas?
I’m not sure what you mean. Maybe I haven’t followed it closely enough. However, I will be posting soon an essay that contends the former is destructive of the latter.
Well, it is an entire piece and I suggest you absorb the whole thing and not attempt to dissect it til you are done.
I look forward to your next post.
My comment was contextually contained by your statement:
“The reactivity of humans is largely brought about by their mistaking the physical universe for themselves. The more one clings to, relies upon, and validates the laws of the physical universe as controlling spirit, the greater the confusion.”
So yes, the former is destructive of the latter.
However, this physical universe is still but a consideration. IMHO.
It would be a dichotomy for me to be writing , managing an instrument, and listen also. Just me. I am not trained so I can only say from my position holding the cans. I am not saying it would be a problem for anyone else. But when someone comes over and says, “I have to talk to you” and we get the coffee going and the person starts unloading about some huge situation / problem in their life, the mere thought of making notes or playing with a gadget during the conversation seems rude.
I have many times, seen the emeter and P.C. competing for attention from the auditor at the same time. (Me being the P.C.) I have many times, seen the auditor read a list and never once look at me all through the list. It looked they were chanting to the emeter.
Not to say I didn’t understand what an assessment was. But to read the list directly to the emeter as if it was another entity ?
You probably wouldn’t know about these things, but it does happen.
Look at the significance now on emeters. Bronze emeters, Mark Vll emeters, as if they were new car models!
I have had public, and staff, at the base, sit down at my desk and tell me things they could not say to anyone else at the base. Even their auditor. In spite of all of the emeters and auditors floating around. I think that is a HUGE red flag. Why even arrive for auditing if the space is that unsafe? Isn’t the space supposed to be safe? When the Flag Land Base becomes the unsafest place on the planet to have a conversation, that is a serious issue. That is a dichotomy right there.
It is also worrisome when after an a few hours or so, you realize the auditor has NOT looked at the meter once, or taken any notes, and has completely forgotten about the session, and you and auditor are in the most fabulous conversation you EVER had in an auditing room. And , then, as the P.C. you are waiting for him like a dog on the walkway at the base paying for accomos while he spends a week in cramming. That happened to me too. I wasn’t complaining. I had a floating T.A. at exam. Now I have to wait as my ruds go out like someone’s pet because the ORG didn’t like the results? REALLY?
It is also weird when the auditor asks you to just sit still for a while while they catch up the their notes. Or they go searching for something in the folders because they forgot what they were supposed to be doing.
What about when you get in argument with the meter as the P.C.? Yes. That happens.
P.C. “This is my item”
Auditor: “That is not what the meter says, let me check this again.”
Laughter!
Just saying, I have seen people struggle with problems on their priorities auditing enough to know when the person across from me is stuck in a GPM.
And your “300” video! 🙂 That is a good flick. Just a moment ago I wa checking the weather and I saw this sentence “YOUR DONATION PROVIDES CRITICAL SUPPORT TO THOSE IN NEED”. Wouldn’t that be a good sales pitch for the RCS. 🙂 DM Is on a self appointed mission. He wants to take all of LRH’s tech, put into titanium alloy form, and keep it safe for ours and future generations to come and also to make it possible, once inter-stellar travel becomes a reality, that Earth be a relay point where new civilations in space can “Pick Up The Tech and Go!”. That is a pretty lofty goal to me. Not that I think such a thing is a bad idea, I just think it would help if people had some reality on what this tech was, BEFORE making plans to deliver it to new worlds. With that said, I still have not figured out how “The Hole” figures into it, for one thing, or how the people in “The Hole” got in the way of him doing this?! 🙂 Hence, I tend to think that DM is a little off, like some of his make believe followers these days. 🙂
Christine as you know Marty tries to refocus folks who participate here on what the original post was about so if you don’t mind I like to take my cue from him and return to what I originally wrote about.
This datum, “that which you resist, you become” may appear innocent enough but it’s actually a very important datum if true.
Auditing will not work and the road to Clear and OT is closed if this is a true datum.
What is an auditing session if not an act of defiance against the existence of something-The reactive mind? In each session you enter a contract with the auditor to go after the contents of this mind. Together you have postulated that there is an enemy and you are going to fight and resist its hold over your life-This is the Tiger that LRH spoke of. Fight it successfully and there is no liability that can accrue to you. You will win. There is no danger in facing the reactive mind, identifying it as the enemy and then going after it. Just be sure to take the session (Or the whole Bridge) all the way to a win and you can’t be hurt. Get into an engram and then become too terrified by its content to continue then sure, you are subject to all kinds of liabilities.
When anyone has made the decision to become an OT they have at that moment selected out the reactive mind as an enemy. At that point the playing field is made and the fight is on. The whole road to OT could be characterized as engaging in a fight. There is an opponent present that is intent on making sure you never make it. In the end there will be a winner and a loser. You will either be OT (yourself minus all the lies) or the Tiger will still be staring you down only now his incisors will be even longer and sharper.
So go ahead and take on the opponent, just see him to his demise.
Sure, I will… I am taking notes on Kindle… (hahaha, a great tool) and Marty… it’s a great read… I see you step by step there fighting then becoming the warrior but I have questions which I will be writing to you as I am done.
I guess by now you can see that there have been other warriors too maybe on lower echelons too, who, too, have been hurt and at least need some communication because explanations are hard to get…
Thanks for clarifying, smart.
Marty, I think you are right about the former being destructive to the latter. But getting into the semantics of things I don’t think people broadly have even a notion of what “I AM” stands for much less “I AM A SCIENTOLOGIST”. We are talking about a Beingness here and many want to assume a “beingness” but not doing or knowing what’s the doingness of that.
Well, hmph! Think about this.
The MISSIONS were the BASE for new public for YEARS. The ORGS were formed to take some of the load off the missions. The missions were then div 6 for the Orgs. Then the Flag Land Base and AO’s got started (Hubbard’s private Org). The the missions were wiped OUT (By David Miscavige during the “Mission Massacre” ) because they became “a threat” to the AO’s.
How much reasoning do you think went into this?
Now, to open a mission, to use your home to disseminate to your own neighbors, you are supposed to pay David 40K for a “mission starter package”.
Now, he can’t deliver super power “because there aren’t enough people to work in the building”.
What kind of GPM’s are these he puts people in to?
Like anyone has to pay him to use the knowledge they paid for?
You see someone out here that finishes chiropractic college, do you see them taxed for every patient they deliver to? Does the chiropractic college decide who their patients are and demand weekly reports?
Does the chiropractic college send in finance police and shut them down because they have become a threat to the chiropractic college?
This is why it is a good idea to INTEGRATE as Marty suggests, otherwise you can not see the GLARING outpoints.
Who EVER, EVER, got shown a contract before they paid for a course, in the Church, saying they had to pay taxes on all of their income as a result of their education? Agreeing to police monitoring during the rest of their life on the use of their knowledge?
How sick has it become when kids from the “justice department” from Hubbard College, show up at an auditors home, who has been auditing for almost forty years, in his home, and freely walk through the house removing the fucking certificates off his wall? The frames too! As if THEY OWN them, his Private property?
http://www.scientology-cult.com/trey-lotz-class-viii-ot-viii.html
Do you realize that technically, this was a bonafide “home invasion” and robbery? Here is Sea Org “justice department” out flagrantly committing home invasion and grand theft as if it is their “duty”.
Totally oblivious they are being criminals.
I don’t have the LRH talk to hand – but if this is what LRH was talking about, making the reactive mind an enemy to fight and win against – I would say – oh boy.
I wish you well on your journey to OT –
In my experience it’s paved not through fighting tigers but by being willing to be open, vulnerable and realize how much I just need to be present and not fixated on beliefs.
Best,
Christine
Just like David. Out assaulting people, beating people, extortion. With a full license to act like a criminal.
What kind of dichotomy is it when “the justice department” and the people who are supposed to be “putting ethics in on the planet” are running around committing the crimes and people do not stop them because of the hype they have sold before the arrived?
And, the members are throwing cash at them to continue?
And we, the people that notice the outpoints, are declared failed cases and oppressive people?
This is why it is a good idea to INTEGRATE as Marty suggests, otherwise you can not see the GLARING outpoints.
And yet, yet and still, people attack him for suggesting people INTEGRATE.
You have other people OUT here, riding on top of the people
OUT here, to push them back into the ILLUSION.
That it all “worked” or it is all “workable”.
I mean, that is like standing in front of a burning building and trying to herd the people that are fleeing back inside!
I mean, it is as though some people can’t think with or use Qual.
Well, that is obvious. The only “qual” or correction in the Church has come from David asserting HE is the source of the “Golden Age of tech” because of book editing.
So what do you expect from some of his offspring?
Sarge! Auditing out considerations……. I love that idea.
It is not the devastating effects of experience that abberate, but the idea that it is possible to be destroyed by them. And that is a wrong knowledge as far as the soul is concerned.
But I think it is more simple than that. The question is, “where did the idea that I can be destroyed or harmed by anything come from”?
And in my experience and from my studies of those who crossed the bridge to total freedom here is my take: the consideration that we can be harmed by anything originates from a lack of Self Realization.
By Self Realization I mean directly perceiving what we are Thetans/Souls/Gods. When, beyond the shodow of a doubt, we know in body mind and soul that we are immortal beings, in bodies, but not bodies then we do not consider that anything can harm us. This is not an intellectual knowing.
This realization is not simply having a few exterior experiences and knowing we are souls. It is an experience that knows beyond the shadow of doubt that thought is the basis of all phenomenon. A freed realized soul can mock up universes. A freed soul can travel interplanetary and interdemensional regions. A freed soul knows that he can rearrange dream structures just like we do in nightly dreams. But because their knowledge is complete in knowing, they can also rearrange the “real” world of matter as well.
The ones that have this realization can demonstrate all the powers that Scientology sought after.
Patanjali’s yoga sutras outline these powers. A good translation is by Swami Prabavananda and Christopher Isherwood.
Everything that exists is a consideration. Therfore existence itself is based in considerations. And when the dreamer of consideration knows this in an ultimate sense, he can create and the universe obeys. He is senior to all laws becuase he realizes HE IS the womb out of which all things emenate. Thus with a thought he can create any phenonemon.
The thought of a true realized Master/Buddha has infinitely more power than the exploading births of an infinite number of galaxies, because he realizes all things emenate from pure consciousness: our true nature. It is also called God Realization by the sages and adepts.
Thank you Sarge for bringing this up for me to think and write about. It all goes no further than consideration.
Everybody watch that video – it is incredibly amazing. Talk about creating an effect worldwide!
Well, as my dad would say, “You ain’t got a clue.”
The most repelling protesters in this arena are former qual staff who sit out and here and report about how fucked up things were when they were in the Church!
It is THAT obscene!
Now there’s a challenge – writing the code to produce a ‘mind’ that practices loving-kindness.
In fact, right here, right now, I charge anyone that has parked their ass in Qual as someone pretending to fix things, starting with Dennis Erlich and Jesse Prince up to now, with blatant treason for HATS NOT WEARING.
Specifically referring to Sea Org Staff at the F.S.O. and the Int Base.
As those people were being provided for with food, shelter, clothes, and services and were accepting valuable exchange to sit around and act BLIND.
The Org staff and mission staff, are off the hook. Since they kept a roof over their own heads, provided for their own food and clothes, plus their family on many occasions, while working as volunteers for little or nothing. How could they even qualify as liabilities to the Orgs and Missions?
“I am completely OK with people who for whatever reason do not want to come forward with their real name.”
Are you sure?
Thank you, axiom38
From the Samyutta Nikaya also:
“When a wise man, established well in virtue,
Develops consciousness and understanding,
Then as a bhikkhu ardent and sagacious
He succeeds in disentangling this tangle.”
GMW
The feeling is mutual. 🙂 XXOO
Nice response, Marty. Personally, I’m enjoying the flow of the articles and the breakdown of the concepts. So few people that I know who like to engage in the comm cycle.
“The way to make it more and more solid and irreversible is to get real enamored with one’s identity and start to oppose other identities one considers a threat to that identity”
Amazing how many people are dedicated to “being” what they, themselves “mocked up.”
Tony, You wrote, “I also am interested in seeing the tech move forward in a positive manner and wish to support those who are doing that.
When I look at Marty’s actions along this purpose line, this is the reason I see.
1. He bypassed normal habits and routines.
That sure made a lot of sense.
2. He handled the situation and any danger in it, by dragging the heat off the Freezoners, Independents, and all who were out here with SOME kind of promise, to keep the tech alive at all.
During that short time the grass roots laid down sure footing and established their rights.
This, is actually what has “safeguarded the technology”.
Per Hubbard a person cycles through an Org Board, and maybe he did and I did not notice it, as I saw him on Div 1, HCO actions.
However, in a danger situation, one bypasses Normal Habits and Routines, so it would make sense to skip over a few divisions instead of “cycle through them”.
To me it seems to me he breathed life into an HCO “establishment” function, giving people time and safe space to regroup and establish, while David was busy with the attacks and putting out the fires from the truths revelations and noisy investigations.
That, was brilliant.
Now think about this, if your car brakes go, and you manage to get the danger off the highway with nobody hurt (HCO function) , what is the next thing you do?
You get the brakes FIXED before you put it back on the road.
You move from HCO straight to Qual.
Should this new grass movement start back up carrying the handicap genes from the Church?
Not a good idea.
So, when I see the topic on the blog shift to a “qual and correction” mode, as to a “new foundation” to build from, “with recommendations such as “Integrate, etc etc” at this point in time, It is not a mystery to me. I see it as a natural “qual” that makes perfect reason and sense.
Why establish a platform out here for people to practice, and safeguard the tech, without getting these seeds through some kind of Qual cycle?
Strategically, this is pure Scientology in the hands of a thinking man.
Kay, being declared an SP is a step in the right direction. The Church of Scientology has been declaring people SP ever since church members realized that some people might be aware of the fact that paying taxes can still be legal. Once one is declared an SP, even though there are steps A to E, most people don’t go back simply because it can be a relief to just finally get the hell out of there. 🙂 I couldn’t be declared because I haven’t done anything I can be declared for. But, the church has sent people out to visit me to determine if I understand this fact or not, so that a fake declare could be issued (which was) to see for how long how much money could be gotten out of me, before I blew my brains out. I was sad about that. 🙂 Declared or not, I would just know better than to do anything other than what LRH said, but ONLY the things that apply to me. From this experience I learned something for example, about people like Marty Rathbun, Debra Barnes and a couple of other people. I have total ARC for the people because if I cannot better their life in some way, in full view of this RCS malignancy, then why the point of even calling myself an Independent anything? 🙂
Windhorse, that is the reason my response was addressed to “Kay” because she is the only one to my knowledge whose first name is Kay or “possibly” K for short. 🙂 But, in any event, Kay or no Kay, K or no K 🙂 my point was pretty clear. 🙂
Perhaps the idea behind the post of the so called KFrancis entity are to result in a large turnout on Google and other search engines for this blog where the que might be “KKK”. Right? 🙂
Just to add, so that when a person searches the web for Marty’s blog it turns up under KKK. 🙂 (short for Ku Klux Klan)
Christine there was no reply button available on your post above so I’ll just say here I didn’t know you were not well acquainted with Scientology (Is that right ?) so I can see why what I offered may seem like a lot of nonsense to you. It would to me too.
I do thank you for the well wishes! All the best to you as well
iamvalkov,
You nailed that one straight on!
Actually, I was surprised to get the phone call to even discuss the
idea of AI or artificial intelligence. I had no idea that the area had such interest.
While computers have been used on Wall Street for decades, these machines only predict. They really do not think. It is the double edged sword of science again in the making. Technology can be used to create a loving machine and it can also be used for weapons. I watched a tape recently of the Battle of Verdun in WWI. Technology advanced so quickly. Thousands of transport trucks and aircraft were used in a matter of a decade.
I managed to write some simple code which put a slightly new idea of the mind into play in the machine. However, I put the entire project into the
category of advanced R&D.
GMW
Jealous cowards try to control
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
They distort what we say
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
Try and stop what we do
Rise above
When they can’t do it themselves
We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it’s no use
Society’s arms of control
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
Think they’re smart
Can’t think for themselves
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
Laugh at us
Behind our backs
I find satisfaction
In what they lack
We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it’s no use
We are born with a chance
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
I am gonna have my chance
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
We are tired of your abuse
Try to stop us it’s no use
Rise above
Rise above
Rise above
We’re gonna rise above
We’re gonna rise above
We’re gonna rise above
Well, I have been audited by Lars Asplund ↑
The auditing went super smooth, an uptone conversation. My “case” is very rough, not easy to deal with. Lars helped me through. The whole time, during each session, he looked me straight in the eyes, never stared at his e-meter or notes, never fumbled, had perfect TRs, in sum: total professionalism. I didn’t even notice the e-meter or his notes or the table or the room. I was totally immersed in the auditing. He knows his trade front-and-back, top-to-bottom. I’ll return in session with Lars anytime.
-Henry Rollins.
I do understand the world is steeped in this stuff.
KFrancis – this isn’t the totality of what I wrote – I went on to say that you had said you were out in the open because you were on the Indy list and I queried that saying I couldn’t find a KFrancis – but found Kay Proctor.
In any case, you have a particularly grating habit, at least with me, of forcing me to defend my communication by pointing out that I didn’t say what you say I said.
Consider this my last comm to you.
Christine
Marty,
Your post reminded me of a silly comic that seems to connect to some of your ideas.
In our zeal to connect, to develop an identity, we latch onto things and allow them to control us… even insidious, nutty, or very stupid things. We pick sides and play the good guy/bad guy game… not realizing that as we demonize the bad guy, we end up taking on some of the bad guy’s characteristics.
In the end, we battle it out and allow ourselves to be thoroughly controlled.
I loved it.
Welcome back!
Just sent to me:
“The meter is an additional way of looking at, and confronting a PC, it is not another terminal.”
I stand corrected. 🙂
I know what LRH said, “you become what you resist”. Forget about names. Is it true? For everyone everywhere? That is the main point. Is it true that you become what you resist? It is not true for me. I have not become the things that I resisted. That has been the biggest lie in Scientology for me. I have never become the things that I resisted. If this is true, for him, is that why he became the “Commodore”? Did he resist the military? I have run out much track as a soldier. Even , op terming, becomes that which you op term. No. I did not become that which resisted. I only grew away from that which I resisted.
Maybe I came to understand others animosity towards myself. But on some level I have always been able to love people who shined above their identity. I never became the things I resisted. I think this is a lie. What is it you do not resist? What if that is not within your nature? WHO was he telling that to? I don’t think he would have said that to me, personally. I think he would have said, “you have not become anyone but you”.
Some of us, are not prone to shape shifting on other determinism.
Beautiful . I loved this, Thank you.
Just food for thought on the solidity of the universe:
What if the solidity of the universe is actually created by particles restricting information flow? In the ‘static’ information is available anytime anywhere. Any and all information is available all the time. (This would inherently do away with time which IMO is an illusion anyway) In the physical universe information has to go through particles.
Lawrence – your response addressed to Kay was not lost on me. I just was hopeful she would be willing to answer a question.
It takes me sometimes awhile to realize what someone’s intentions are — especially on a blog — she has no plans to get in comm but merely to upset and hi-jack a thread.
Not unlike an OSA operative … which, who knows? It was rumored elsewhere that Kay – K – is exactly that.
In any case, her last comment to me about my lack of scn knowledge is pure 1.1 — and as a trained PR she would be able to do this type of smack-down in a friendly and kind way. With the perfect knife behind the back smile.
Thanks for the backup. 🙂
Sapere Aude: Fantastic. Had I watched this before my last comment to Lawrence re: Kay Proctor, I wouldn’t have said anything nasty — which just keeps the fires burning.
Truly a wonderful TED talk … I couldn’t agree more. We are the ones to stop the dichotomies. It’s so easy to get wrapped up in defending ones position. Starts with a firefight on a message board and eventually escalates to greater and greater violence.
Again – thanks for this. Great find.
TO,
the full datum says:
“You become what you resist… if you lose.”
Here is the mechanism of becoming the valence of what won (and thus fixed your attention).
So if you didn’t become what you resisted comes from two possible scenarios:
1) you’ve been very effective and didn’t lose
2) you found a way how to as-is and free your attention units from the loss (as Marty described it some time ago the “witnessing”)
One of the references for this datum is the beautiful lecture entitled “Miracles”.
That is false authoritarianism. “The full datum says”, followed by a quotation punctuated with elipses. What is your analysis and judgment as to the original post?
Christine and Lawrence the reply buttons are disappearing so I can only assume that Marty would like to bring this string to a close. So I will oblige and just let it alone now.
Marty, what are you talking about?
I am not trying to be authoritarian.
I have the lecture here in German. (Should have mentioned it.)
I tried to provide the full datum to TO as I see she is just working with a verbal datum gave to her by someone.
The lecture is a nice one.
For further inspection the date is 1955-02-09, “Miracles”.
What is your analysis and judgment as to the original post?
You mean your opening post?
WOW,great article Marty. I saw a Monk pray and made bottles of water that surrounded him perculate and bubble.
AA,
Yes, good observation. But also note the fact that because particles are there does not nullify the static, as it is senior to them.
Neither that those particles are inherently bad, as they also demarcate space and give us something to look at.
Theta and communication are still senior to particles. It is our considerations about the importance of particles that affect our experiences.
That is false authoritarianism. “The full datum says”, followed by a quotation punctuated with elipses.
Marty, what are you talking about? What is your beef with this?
I am not trying to be authoritarian.
I have the lecture here in German. (Should have mentioned it.)
In the German translation it says:
“Du wirst zu dem, dem du dich widersetzt, wenn du verlierst.”
I tried to provide the quote to TO as I see she is just working with a verbal datum which became “common knowledge”.
The lecture is a nice one.
For further inspection the date is 1955-02-09, “Miracles”.
Your opening post is just fine.
I did not bring up the quote in order to make your post wrong.
In this context you use “You become what you resist” it’s well used. Who can be mest and win, after all?
My take is simple: exteriorize the time track of the Scientology organization and move on with the beneficial content of Scientology.
When I mention the datum that one becomes that which one resits, some people contend that resistance is a brilliant and positive activity provided one conquers the enemy, using that one line quote of yours. You then authoritatively validate that entrapping datum by pronouncing “the full datum” and presenting it as a quote broken by ellipses. The fact it has elipses included by definition makes it decidedly not the full datum. This is sort of a built in schizophrenia in Scientology. Whenever a person makes a point, it can always be countered with a single line, even one broken by ellipses, by L. Ron Hubbard. That is why literalist are busily devolving Scientology into an eternal debate over scripture; all the while accumulating mass, and becoming yet another flock, pursuant to the observable phenomena that resistance builds mass – sort of the point of the original essay.
I dont’ see the ellipsis that you quoted in the german translation you have provided here.
You assumed wrongly.
“I dont’ see the ellipsis”
I gave the quote from memory. You never did it?
I provided the reference (Lecture Title and Date). I am nothing like a priest who authoritatively wants to instill literarism.
“You then authoritatively validate that entrapping datum by pronouncing “the full datum” and presenting it as a quote broken by ellipses.”
As said before, it was not my intent.
This “entrapping datum”?
Is anything about the games theory also a “entrapping” theory to you?
Sure, a thetan should go free enough so he can play games above the need to ridge.
And this is covered in spades in the PDC lectures.
You are talking about literarism and them comment on a ellipsis?
Please see my reply to TO for what it is.
Read her comment first and than mine again.
The German sentence afterwards was straight from the transcript. I looked it up again.
Hi Lawrence — here’s a working reply button.
They disappear BTW when a thread has had a certain number of responses under it … NOT because Marty wants to stop a conversation.
BUT — it makes KProctorFrancis look like she’s the compliant nice lady PR …
Not the potential rabble rouser that she appears to be.
In any case, I’ve studied enough LRH and heard enough LRH lectures to know that there is ALWAYS a contradictory datum somewhere — just look for it and ye shall find.
Does this make either one right or wrong — nope? It all depends on the whole lecture/story.
BUT what happens is snippets are taken and become mantras — and then become sacred and carved in stone.
Scientology is such a vast subject, that rising above the subject is very hard and IMHO requires typically having to crash head first into the brick wall of mantras … and when waking up from that horrific head ache, shaking oneself off and slowly walking through the mine field to truth.
It’s a difficult walk but well worth it.
Marty I believe is trying to PREVENT people from crashing head first and the subsequent head ache by gradiently pointing out what becomes obvious when you’ve been walking on up for a few years.
But there are always those who are insistent on creating a wall of sacred BS.
Christine
Christine thanks for clearing up why the reply buttons disappear. I didn’t know that.
Originally I just took exception with a single datum and its alteration from what LRH had stated. From that opening I became: A man without courage….A dishonest man…A knife wielding OSA operative A woman …..A 1.1er….A Kay Proctor….A trained PR…A highjacker
My point to you is that this is the metaphorical Tiger showing up in the group. This is the reactive mind. Alter, alter, alter until we are all so far from the truth that an aberration has formed right in front of us,
Imagine yourself going out on date and spending some time at your door kissing your date goodnight. You don’t invite him in but still the neighbor lady sees this and cries that you are a “woman of loose morals and sure to go hell”. You didn’t one of the other ladies at work also had her eye on this guy and she undermines you by floating the idea that you may have an STD. Well this is the Tiger making his way into your life.
You look at all this and say,” Gawd…I just wanted to go out on a date!”.
I am not crying victim here I’m just point out the Tiger and the point of the Bridge.
I just finished reading “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior”.
The book verified things I suspected were fact, set me straight on some “facts” which I had wrong and introduced me to some things I hadn’t expected at all.
I’m glad that I heeded the advice in chapter 15 of “What Is Wrong With Scientology” and have been studying diligently (more or less) the past few months. Things that would’ve shaken me up before didn’t.
It actually resolved some confusions and conflicts for me and restored some peace in my universe.
Considering what you experienced and how you handled yourself, I’d say you got the EP of Pro TRs on the Comm Course.
You are a hell of a writer to boot!
its not common for Guru’s to recommend other Gurus.
TO
“What happened, is the the main TOPIC here shifted from politics and reporting of current events, to philosophy and social sciences.”
An example of moving on up a bit higher.
KFrancis: sounds kinda victimy to me but what the hell — we all view blame in different ways.
I am still somewhat astonished by your steadfast refusal to come forward with your announcement on Steve’s Indy list. I never mentioned that list — you did in defense of your moniker.
That said — you are very vocal over on the iscientology web site and in full accord with the blog entries and occasionally make arguments against those who don’t fully walk in accord over there. The thread with “just me” responding to T. Martiniano comes to mind.
I just don’t think this blog is your cup of tea. Not to worry. It’s what makes horse races work.
As to the “point of the Bridge” — whew — so glad I stepped off that road to endless figure figure.
We each have to figure out how to walk through life … with the bridge, without the bridge, modified bridge, bridge light, a blown up bridge or never on the bridge.
It’s a personal path — life.
Christine
KFrancis, I can certainly understand anyone wishing to be anon in
any Scn discususions forums ect. For example it can be detrimental
in business relationships to be known as a Scientologist, let alone having friends and relatives in.
You say you have given up anonymity as far as CO$ is concerned
but don’t wish to here give up anonymity. As a certain pointy eared gentlemen might say ” This dosn’t compute.” Perhaps you can enlighten us as to your reasons.
There have been 2 similar statements on this thread. “That which you resist, you become.” “That which you resist, you become – if you lose”.
On thinking about these again, I don’t think iether is an absolute truth but a limited truth.
Postulates and considerations are senior to all else. We can change them,
or learn to if we wish. We don’t always have to travel in a downward direction.
We can move up a bit higher anytime we put our mind to it.:)
Terril — now you’ve done it — opened up the can of worms of “limited truth vs absolute truth”
As in — a 3 basket system is a limited truth datum … (to find something not terribly controversial) …
Absolute truth — man is basically good … or life is a static
However, people are forever MAKING a relative truth INTO an absolute truth and killing each other in the process.
God, you’ve got to love human beings. The only group I know of who could take something BASICALLY SO SIMPLE and make it a nightmare.
For themselves and everyone around them.
My relative truth is — 5 scoops of ice cream trumps a bowl of spinach anyway.
Christine
“On thinking about these again, I don’t think iether is an absolute truth but a limited truth.”
I don’t think there is any absolute truth which could be written down on paper. Won’t happen.
As soon as you start to put it in words, a alteration process begins.
I also remember being taught, that Scientology does not engage in “absolute truth” but in “workable truth”.
Hey Terril
My decision to do so doesn’t just involve me at this point. There is one other person to consider.
That is really all there is to it. Your first reason is a very good one as well.
Thanks….
I haven’t tried to resist much. I have avoided a lot of things. Of course, I don’t have a track record of “noble bravery”. I have a track record of relocating a lot.:)
But what’s his name, Simon Bolivar did encourage people to rise up, he fought on the front lines and then declared himself a dictator.
But how many Simon Bolivars were there? Maybe the former Malcolm X is Mitt Romney today for all I know. But how many Malcolm X’s were there?
It seems in this atmosphere there is not a whole lot to resist. Usually one man with a back up crew can push back on something and handle it.
And per the laws of ARC it seems like most people become that which they admire, not that which they resist. There is truth in the opposite view also.
Geeze Christ what was the big “war we won” about with the Church of Scientology. Paying taxes or not? I would have just paid my taxes. I did relocate to Nevada because there are no state taxes. 🙂
I wouldn’t have fought the U.S. government for some chump change. Especially if it meant creeping around in hiding for the rest of my life.
Or put myself on stage in an arena to announce a victory over a fucking tax debt written off.
Don’t resist, avoid!
Marty, KFrancis asked a specific question. What did LRH say about resisting. What will eventually haunt us is whether we DID trust the Old Man… so what did LRH finally said.. what you resist you get? or what you resist you get – if you lose? To some of us it’s still important, even though some might think we are naive or even though some others (like DM) we are gonna follow that like sheep.
Christine, I don’t know who is KFrancis eventually. I do care what LRH said about resisting. My short experience in this body has taught me to not trust too many… sorry.. So, if we can stay focused on what LRH said. I think what we all started from is the words of the Old Man.. I am gonna adhere to those words of the Man first and then interpret them as I see fit. So anyone stopping the words of the Man to me is not really doing a service to what i have been trying to do for so many years. Same goes for DM…
You are auditing your considerations Sarge! (or were) But in a round about way, Dianetics and Scientology are techniques that move you to a place where your considerations become apparent.
Much of what we “consider” as humans is below our awareness, and that is the brilliance of what LRH created, a way to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, confronting our considerations without knowing what they are to start out with.
My view anyway…
Good to see you posting!
🙂
Oh and I would like to know a reference too, from LRH… sorry folks I am old fashioned.
Jesus is just alright with me. I wish he would have made his own notes. Or had some kind of verification authority. The “testament” is a book of witness accounts. I would have avoided that cross incident. But the stories of magic in the bible make for excellent reading. Back then religion was considered the same as magic. So I guess Jesus was a magician, he would have had to be to part water, walk on water, and spread that bread around. He was either magical or putting drugs in the wine.
Nothing more deimmortalizing than a public execution.
But the word spread and people changed for the better and it stayed, and stayed, and stayed, with out a “Keeping The Bible Working” crack down.
God was apparently another magician , that never bothered to use a body. He could turn people into stone and salt and work all kinds of magic. So you see, a couple of magicals, changed the face of the Earth and made it a better place.
Perhaps Hubbard’s notes deserve a second look to those who have written them off as inconsequential. Magic can be used to heal the world and the people in it.
btw, we saw them in Corpus a couple years back; hell of an accomplish group of musicians, to this day. They wrote a few of my many theme songs, among which is this (funny how we wound up 20 minutes from the very spot and it kind of describes our place):
And while David was in L.A. demanding everyone to attend and give him applause, U.S. Gov was quietly moving on , having organized their separation of Church of State , by granting religious status to the C of S, which would automatically bar them from government. Put them and keep them at complete effect of U.S. Gov.. And there is that utter non thinking mathematical failure David Miscavige, demanding applause for that. Utterly defeated , yelling, “We won the war”. No wonder the F.B.I. considers Scientologists too stupid to be a threat.
This, for sure, was a third dynamic dichotomy. Members were forced to turn against their own employees and resources (U.S. Government) to support the Church in a bill dispute.
The only way to escape the taxes was to become a religion.
The only way for U.S. Gov to strip the Scientologists of any and all power they could possibly have to be at cause over government, was to grant them religious status so they are obligated to remain separate from State.
They sent David home thinking he had won and gained power, when he had sold it all away for cash not backed by gold.
To get the money to fight them, he dressed up staff in militia and made them pretend to be IRS agents (Finance Police) and wiped out the mission network, which unmocked his own client base.
Has anyone else noticed the U.S. Gov could care less about the C of S since they have disabled it through David Miscavige?
And Miscavige booked a theater arena and convinced people to applaud him for this complete relinquishment of power?
There is no way for the Church of Scientology to be at cause over government now. Only the effect of it.
You think the deal makers in Washington didn’t know that?
They played Miscavige like a violin.
Here is the dichotomy. How the hell are you going to get someone up to cause over matter energy space and time, when you have set the whole organization up to be total effect?
Agreed. The static is the underlying ‘engine’ and the limitation of information flow is what creates this game. The particles are just following what they were postulated to do very precisely.
K- with you on the name thing but this fight to win tack you suggest makes me think you missed the evolvement of some here towards the Tao of fighting meaning invest in loss – that is the position from which one “wins” – with the Tao at your back , no casting shadows, no resist, no mass. dm will fall on the strenghth of his own mighty might. Some folks here do want to move on. And auditing is not about resisting the reactive mind, even I know this, the reactive mind is the resisting mind. The way to clear is through, as is, no resist, no mass making.
So why did you “out yourself?”
Its not easy to comprehend.
Please feel welcome to respond privately to
basic2basic@yahoo.com. 🙂 Or publicly.
Thats me 🙂
Yes, another make-wrong, Scott. No one is going anywhere in this universe until we get over this need to make others wrong. Period! And LOL!
SKM, thanks for providing the LRH reference about the datum “That which you resist, you become, if you lose”.
To me it’s important to know that reference as we all used to do at a certain point of time.
That was news for me! I didn’t know that. I have been researching real estate in the area between you and San Antone, and the area you are in has somehow magically not been effected, at all! Amazing. It has gone up, and up and up! No dip no crash during the real estate crisis. You are in a great place.
Oracle: I know what LRH said, “you become what you resist”. Forget about names. Is it true? For everyone everywhere?
Spyros: Case is potential and never true 🙂
SKM: I also remember being taught, that Scientology does not engage in “absolute truth” but in “workable truth”.
Spyros: Me too…verbally 😛 What are the axioms for then?
(this isn’t for you SKM)
I guess chopping the most basic basics out of SCN isn’t that important. Let’s fight psychiatry. Or maybe let’s quit the COS and fight COB 😛
VWD Marty. This is the basic truth of what keeps us here, running around, eon after eon. Those who know have expressed it in different ways but, at its crux, it is this: I can not truly be free until you are. The Old Man’s greatest discovery, then, was the ARC triangle. How ironic that Love unlocks the gates of Hell.
Marty:
Quoting you:
If you listen to Hubbard’s lectures and read the books on the Academy Levels auditor training there is no need for further explanation.
If you read the Scientology OT II materials there is no need for further explanation, except perhaps to help clarify technical mechanics from mythology.
If you read the Tao of Physics there is no need for further explanation.
If you read, and contemplate the Tao Te Ching, there is no need for further explanation.
Me> If you read the bible or at least know the Lord’s prayer you will not need further explanation.
The bible tells us not to depend on the world for our needs and sustenance.
As in: God knows that you need all these things.
Come on to me and all these things shall be given on to you.
Lords prayer: give me this day my daily bread.
These are datums of comparable magnitude to living by postulating.
If you are depending on the mest U to provide for you, you are depending on “an effect” to provide for you.
An effect cannot truly provide. It is a deception. A trap.
Only a cause, a Source Cause can truly provide anything.
Dio