I have been a little consumed of late dealing with a psychopath who insists upon forcing himself upon our lives.  The experience has validated the observations of the world’s leading authority on psychopathy, Robert D. Hare.  This short passage from Hare’s book Snakes In Suits is remarkably apt to that situation. It may also pique your interest in learning more on the subject.  I find that the knowledge takes a little sting out of the discomforts inflicted in being stalked by a psychopath.

from chapter entitled What You See May Not Be What You See:

Psychopaths have a great sense of superiority and entitlement, and think nothing of helping themselves to property that belongs to others.  Their grandiose sense of self-importance leads them to believe that other people exist just to take care of them.  Because they see most people as weak, inferior, and easy to deceive, psychopathic con artists will often tell you that their victims deserved what they got.  Sometimes their sense of superiority is so great that they will say that they are conferring a gift by letting their victims support them.  This is obvious in the many cases of cult leaders who are charlatans or outright psychopaths, but can be seen in more subtle cases as well.  This condescending air toward others comes across as cocky and egotistical to many observers, but, as we will discuss below, some may find this behavior somewhat charming, even charismatic.

(emphases in original)



88 responses to “Psychopaths

  1. Wow — perfect summation of He Who Cannot Be Named.

  2. Maybe that psychopath is trying to solve some problem of his own by impinging on you and others.

  3. If the pychopath is looked upon as charming and charismatic then he is being looked upon by others as some sort of solution to their problems.

  4. Psychopathic: Government seems to display these characteristics.

  5. I am certain that a psychopath is not happy. He is beset with inconsistencies that he is unable to resolve. There are simply more inconsistencies and more oomph behind those inconsistencies.

  6. Marty, this sounds like another great book and another one of your recommendations I will have to get a hold of. Pisses me off that you have to put up with such crap, but at the same time you continue to flourish and prosper. LIttle WJ is just the kinda guy for you at this moment! This creep will be no match for Team Rathbun.

  7. You have our spiritual support Marty. The devil is the foot stool for the sage. It helps him up to see higher. Evil is the stark contrast that delineates the good. And the victory of men/women of good will is the stuff of story.

    Many visible and invisible forces at play here. It’s that pesky light and dark thing.

    May a bubble of protection surround you and your loved ones. Kick ass brother!

    ….and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails!

  8. Defend these principles of decency with the ferocity and poise of a calm samurai. Always acting out of the center of soul consciousness. That is the test: Fierce Love

  9. The key word so aptly used by Marty is “enforced”. It is the key dramatization of Miscavige and Radical Official Taliban Scientology.
    Enforced extorted donations.
    Enforced lengthy sec checks to flush out the *Evil* of “wrongness”
    Enforced mandatory attendance at events
    Enforced IAS “upgrade” of statuses.
    Enforced study of basics
    Enforced Gat II
    and so on….

  10. Marty,

    I am sorry to hear this news.

    I was hoping you and Mosey would have a reprieve from that evil little man (SP/DM) to enjoy William.

    This is evidence of what a miserable DB he is!

    I am also enduring a similar sit with my psycho brother.

    My solution is out-create. They can’t handle flourishing and prospering!!

    So, if I may offer that you & Mosey let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do?

    Hugs to y’all, Midge

  11. Marty,
    Maybe the problem is that the imprinting didn’t take on you:

  12. Sooo, Marty, Is John Allendar back on your doorstep?

  13. Just give me a call if you need any help with this, Marty. With the new addition to your family, this is the last kind of thing you need in your life. Let me know if I can be of assistance in any way.

  14. That description matches Miscavage perfectly.

    At least there is one body of technology he is following to the letter.

  15. I wish you and your family the very best in this difficult time. When the day comes when your children ask you what you did during the war you will have the very best stories to tell. I mean that in the nicest way. Stay clam and carry on.

  16. So true, Karen. These guys are scared to death of anyone who is self-determined. They imagine that anyone who was self-determined would be dangerous to them. They can’t imagine anyone doing something nice for them just because they want to make someone happier. I guess this is why psychopaths have to be control freaks and squash individual freedom. What a sad and lonely way to live.

  17. Marty,
    Whoever this person is, he is not worth one moment of your time and attention.
    You and Mosey have wonderful new “little” friend who has come into your life who I know very well is much more fun to hang out with!

  18. Gerhard Waterkamp

    Basically life is simple
    There are kind people and than there are mean people.
    What really screws you up is when you cannot recognize one from the other.

  19. Marty,

    So sorry to hear that. My thoughts are that this should be a time of great joy with the baby recently arrived. New life brings new hope….ignore the idiots and enjoy all you have! Not that you need my advice…just throwing it out there, in case you forgot! Sent with love.

  20. There is a method that can be used. It has many names. “love” is one of it’s names. Old GB Shaw said that the Bible enjoins us to love our enemy and our neighbour because they are probably one and the same person.
    So how does one love an enemy? And why should you love an enemy?
    It has to do with “ridges”
    Each one of us mocks up a “self” which we present in order to interact with others. Some of these “selves” have unloving and unsocial characteristics. These “selves” were created due to unresolved conflicting postulates in that mocked up, repository we call mind.
    Without conflicting postulates no game can continue or exist.
    Ridges emplaced need nourishment from self and others to persist.
    We do know that the flow of “admiration” has an as-is’ing potential and that another name for admiration is “love”
    A flow of love or admiration towards the being emanating the ridges has the effect of loosening their anchors and resolving that particular “self/mind”
    Look up “Ho’oponopo”

  21. Marty, You seem to be the cat that gets kicked as the situation around him deteriorates. And its personal. If you hadn’t left, his situation would be so much more manageable. But you had no choice if you were to be true to yourself. All our roles in this may have been pre-ordained. Yours has been greater than most because your ability to handle it was greater than most. But nothing stays the same as you know. The shadows are fading as the light increases. Your in control. You may have now paid for your passage in full on both ends of this journey. At least it seems so to me. But only you would know. Sail on Brother.

  22. Chris,

    The government is a direct manifestation or exact reflection of the electorate.

    When the electorate collectively becomes sane, competent and honest the government will become likewise.


  23. Marty,
    RE: Psychopaths have a great sense of superiority and entitlement, and think nothing of helping themselves to property that belongs to others. Their grandiose sense of self-importance leads them to believe that other people exist just to take care of them.

    Me: My hypothesis is that the individual you describe via the book is operating on a survival mechanism developed as a result of extremely aberrated parenting.

    The helping himself to others belongings is a result of “not being allowed to have something that he was fully entitled to have or needed”. Not only once, but probably daily for probably much of his developing yrs.

    And his superiorority complex is a survival/ coping mechanism developed as a result of extreme invalidation, suppression. In other words not allowed to “be”, not allowed to be himself and develop a natural or normal personality and not taught a noble character. It is a willed and extreme effort to climb on top or rise above the extreme invalidation and suppression, “extreme made nothing of”.

    We are all products. If you have a problem with a product, you have to check with the factory for the cause.

    You might have some success, if you do remote auditing on him. Or in meditation or prayer, talk to his higher self, or the what ever little bit of true spirit/ theta there is left in him, to resolve it or audit it out. It is probably only a very tiny bit and maybe well buried and hidden too. It is full of inexplainable , unimaginable and unbearable pain.

    You will have to take out the bad data and install good data.

    And will most likely have to do it remotely and psychically.

    Based on my research, I think that may have to be done to a lot of beings on this planet.


  24. Given the detail of the dox posted at the Bunker yesterday, this couldn’t be a more fitting post to describe DM in one word. Psychopath.

  25. I know it’s a cliche and I know it seems like infinity that you two have been going through all this but “This Too Shall Pass” Not even a psychopath can take your Joy away if you are committed to Joy. 🙂

  26. Maybe they should read The Way to Happiness?

  27. Robert D. Hare sounds like the IDEAL professional witness.

  28. I know he is not worth the dynamite to blow away nor the time to do it but it seems the more light you shine on an SP or psychopath the more they shrink away. Shine on you crazy diamond. ARC Bill Dupree

  29. It sounds as if you are condoning his actions or making excuses for his behavior. From his track record he does indeed need help but when do you take someone out who is doing that much damage?

  30. An Appropriate Thought to Ponder from The Urantia Book

    “You should not envisage the evolutionary worlds, even the most ideal, as spheres whereon life is a flowery bed of ease. The initial life of the mortal races is always attended by struggle.”

    (578.3) 50:6.3


  31. I don’t know how many people you have audited, Dio. But my experience in auditing hundreds and hundreds of people is this. There are some children born into this world who dramatize evil purposes pretty much right out of the womb. The true sociopaths. They come from all different backgrounds and parental scenarios.

    The simplicity, as I see it from my experience is that some people really only care about themselves, their desires, their needs and their obsessive craving to win the game. Some of these people are hell-bent on an evil path of destruction, domination and nullification of anyone in their path. They are not the effect of bad-parenting, nasty implanters or invalidative school teachers. They are CAUSE of their own evil intentions and they truly seem to relish the game. Confront it, don’t try to justify it.

  32. I’ve thought DM was a psycopath since reading about his behavior. It’s good to see the author sum it up so well.

  33. Oooooops, psychopath.

  34. As Mr Hare explains, it is a ‘sense’ that leads to his belief; we can assume is a self created sense or, at least and more likely, a delusion. Either way it separates them from reality and thus the psychopath acts on the construct of being the best and only one. We could also call it individuation.

    On the other hand, even if masked with charisma, they act and perpetrate reproachable actions just because others contribute to magnify their image and support their actions. Otherwise, by their own, the psychopath really suffers of lack of own power.

  35. That description fits the curch itself as well. Was it like that before DM too? I recall LRH writing something to the effect that ‘we don’t owe mankind anything’. It probably doesn’t matter, the past is gone and the present church would be a fine specimin for diagnosing organisational insanity. As DM is the only one that calls the shots, the group cannot help but be his extension and become like him.

    Like Summerwind said, this too shall pass. I wish your family joy and peace.

  36. Marty,

    Too much truth is on your side, the purpose of justice itself is on your side, the Corporate Church cannot win, and, while fighting the injustices, you and Mosey are out-creating the bastards both literally and figuratively.

  37. Nope. I am just looking from a different angle. I am just wondering how some people become that way… Is it genetic or psychological?

  38. I need to post the Anti-Psychopath or Pro-Human

    I like the first Dance so much

  39. I just heared he died, L Ron Hubbard has nothing on this man but racist slurs.

  40. The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
    train in the entire world — he is probably impossible by any
    human standard.

    –L. Ron Hubbard,
    No. 119, 1 September 1957, as published in Level 0
    PABS (c.1968, The American St. Hill Organization).

  41. Martin, thanks for this awesome comment! I saw better than ever that if everyone who is concerned about the situation were to adopt this type of “handling,” there would be a miraculous change for the better.

    Christians and others could view it as group prayer, which is the same basic principle, I believe, and has been shown many times to be workable.

    Former Scientologists, as you indicated, could view it from the perspective of admiration – “a particle which unites and resolves, like the universal solvent, all types of energy, particularly force.” (PAB 8)

    And in “8-8008,” admiration is defined as “approving attention given to.”

    The article about Ho’oponopo that you posted a link for explains the principle beautifully. Here’s an excerpt of the first part of it:

    “Alan Cohen, author of the article: Ho’oponopo: Healing by Restoring Balance”

    “For a long time I have respected the work of Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len, a psychologist Joe Vitale applauds in his book, Zero Limits. Dr. Hew Len was assigned to duty in a ward for the criminally insane. The ward, Dr. Hew Len reports, was a highly undesirable place to work or visit because the patients were often violent. The staff had high absenteeism and turnover.

    “Using Ho’oponopo to Change the World

    “Dr. Hew Len, however, had been trained in a Hawaiian healing method called ho’oponopo, which translates as “healing by restoring balance.” Ho’oponopo teaches that the world we see is a projection of our own consciousness, and if we intend to make changes in the outer world, we must first restore balance and clarity in our own mind and heart. So Dr. Hew Len regularly took each patient in mind, and spoke to their spirit: “I’m sorry for creating you by seeing you as ill. I love you.”

    “The results were amazing! After a few months, shackled patients were being freed, medications were lightened significantly, and patients who had been afforded no hope of being released, were going home. Eventually the ward was closed due to attrition!

    “The message of this experience runs deep and has life-changing potential for all of us: We can heal the world by changing our mind about the world.”

  42. For Heber and everybody in the hole !

  43. Like most things homo sapien, it appears to be a mix of both genetics and environment. NPR had an interesting discussion on it a couple months ago:

    Evolution would find advantages in both empathy and lack of empathy. If you are a warrior fighting an enemy to the death to protect your tribe, it would not be an advantage to be overcome with empathy for the lives and well-being of your enemy. On the other hand, if you were not capable of empathy toward your tribe and offspring, that wouldn’t be very pro-survival too.

    I would armchair philosophize as follows: DM has a genetic profile that predisposes him to high aggression, low empathy. This slant is reinforced by corporate Scientology culture. It is exacerbated by his being a damaged narcissistic personality (after all, the only three “big” thetans around were Ron, DM, and TC — in that order). So as a “big” thetan, he cannot understand why he cannot get the results, worship, and compliance that he so clearly deserves. This dials his aggression up even further, as does the self-created delusion of enemies and SPs on all sides.

    The irony is that while Scientology has languished in a rather insightful understanding of the antisocial personality as locked in by Ron in circa 1960ish understanding, the “wog” world has continued to plow ahead in research on such personalities in fields like anatomy, social development, genetics, and neurochemistry. The “wog” world is still not there — but admits it is not. Thus it remains open to learning. Scientology, in contrast, believes it has it all pegged from Ron. Thus Scientology runs head on into one of the main barriers of study: believing that one knows it all already.

    DM would best get himself into an intensive regimen of auditing — or counseling. However, I bet not many of us see that happening anytime soon. That would invalidate his narcissistic sense of being an entitled “big” thetan, and the very suggestion that DM could and should seek improvement, like the rest of us, could only come from an SP.

    So what makes a sociopath? Probably, some combination of genetic predisposition coupled with significant developmental life events. I sincerely doubt it has anything to do with wholetrack overts committed in the vicinity of the star Alkaid.

  44. I’ve known at least one definite psychopath. They really don’t care, though they often feign caring. If there is unhappiness, it is proof that _you_ (not they) have a problem, and they will be happy to get _you_ back on track.

  45. One of my favorite movies … thanks for sharing the clip.

  46. LOL — Mandela proved Hubbard right. He refused to be trained into self-denigration. He refused to be trained into hatred against whites. He ended up inspiring his jailers. He studied white poetry and literature so he could understand that other race. He held to true north through storms that would have knocked virtually any human off course, and in doing so showed the best of what we humans may yet become. So thank goodness he could not be trained!

    And shame on Ron for such stereotypical, blanket generalities — even when he himself knew that speaking in generalities was flawed and devious.

  47. And lets look at the opposite:
    Good by for now Nelson Mandela. Thank you for your service to mankind and letting us each feel that there is nothing that I want that I don’t have.
    May you travel on fair winds of love to where ever you want to be…..
    Published December 05, 2013•
    President Obama joined lawmakers and former heads of state Thursday in mourning the death of Nelson Mandela, calling him one of the “most influential, courageous and profoundly good” people to have ever lived.
    “He achieved more than could be expected of any man. Today he’s gone home,” an emotional Obama said, in remarks from the White House.
    Obama added: “He no longer belongs to us. He belongs to the ages.”
    Mandela died Thursday at age 95. He was South Africa’s first black president and one of the world’s most beloved statesmen.

  48. Vinaire and LDW,

    My next hypothesis is that the psychopath is a product of grossly unGodly degenerative breeding practices.

    I have researched this quite a bit.

    Sex is quantum physics.

    And the spiritual state of the couple for up to a couple of months leading up to (possibly longer) and during intercourse for conception has an effect in creating the spiritual and psychological state of the baby. It is mind and spirit over matter or rather mind and spirit and bodies creating matter.

    So if you have two degenerating beings making a baby, you will have a more degenerating off spring.

    One of the basic mechanics of this matter is that if a couple is spiritual ascending the offspring will be more spiritual than the parents.

    And if the couple are degenerating, descending then the offspring will be more degenerated.

    There are wordless postulates (causitive states of mind and energy) at work here.

    And you could add the columns of Hubbard;s chart of human eval to this idea and get further insight.

    It would take a fairly long essay at least, if not a book, to explain it all.

    I developed this hypothesis mostly from reading the Oahspe and the Anastasia series of books (9 of them), by Vladimir Megre. These books have some interesting data on making babies. Read them for more info and decide for yourself.

    So my hypothesis is it still comes down to the factory, but at a more basic level.

    I think some very advanced and skilled and specialized auditing would work, if the person wants to heal.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

    If there is a will, there is a way.

    Nothing is impossible, if you have the right know how, and the right knowledge.


  49. Cont:
    His death was announced late Thursday by South African President Jacob Zuma. Mandela was remembered in the United States not only for his role in ending apartheid but his “grace” and perseverance in fighting against a system that segregated a society and kept him jailed for nearly three decades.

    Former President George H.W. Bush recalled watching “in wonder as Nelson Mandela had the remarkable capacity to forgive his jailers following 26 years of wrongful imprisonment — setting a powerful example of redemption and grace for us all.”

    Mandela embodied not only the fight for racial equality but a rare spirit of reconciliation which ultimately earned him the respect of his adversaries, and the awe of millions. He lunched with the prosecutor who argued successfully for his incarceration and once traveled hundreds of miles to have tea with the widow of Hendrik Verwoerd, the prime minister at the time he was sent to prison who was also the architect of white rule.

    “We will likely not see the likes of Nelson Mandela again,” Obama said.
    [I disagree]
    Former President Bill Clinton said the late leader will be remembered as “a champion for human dignity and freedom, for peace and reconciliation.”

    “He proved that there is freedom in forgiving, that a big heart is better than a closed mind, and that life’s real victories must be shared,” Clinton said in a statement.

    Statements poured out of Capitol Hill late Thursday praising Mandela’s legacy.

    “Nelson Mandela was an unrelenting voice for democracy and his ‘long walk to freedom’ showed an enduring faith in God and respect for human dignity,” House Speaker John Boehner said. “His perseverance in fighting the apartheid system will continue to inspire future generations.”

    Rep. Eliot Engel, top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, echoed Obama in describing his impact on the world.

    “While it is hard to believe that he is no longer with us, Mr. Mandela will continue to live through his powerful legacy,” he said. “Ages from now, people will remember Nelson Mandela’s name and what he did for his country.”

    Yes he lives. In our hearts.
    All you warriors keep on ~ You are very very loved.

  50. Yes enforced until we are not forcible. Yay!!!! 🙂
    So well done on all you fellow team mates for breaking the enforcement to freedom. The freedom LRH wanted at one time for all us. Maybe we had to be there (enforced) to be here (unenforced). Hugs everyone 🙂

  51. And they (He) don’t truly know who they are. They (He) are being someone else.
    Yes, balance it out with love and compassion. No – I don’t mean let them on your or Marty’s doorstep.
    I’m not sure I am able to help him with that yet …. for now it’s simply watch him fall.
    There are others more receptive to help at this time.
    He will have to wait.

  52. Psychopaths are one of my favorite topics, having been targeted by one recently and once a long while ago. You say, “I find that the knowledge takes a little sting out of the discomforts inflicted in being stalked by a psychopath.” I couldn’t agree more. I read everything I could find on psychopaths, work place bullying, etc. trying to understand how someone could continually come at me, as if in battle, with such unthinkable and unconscionable attacks. I think there were two things that gave me some peace.

    Firstly, I looked at who they were and realized I had been duped into thinking they had enormous power, when in fact they were a nobody in the grand scheme of things. They were a virtual nobody from a global perspective and from an historical perspective, despite all their pompous crap.

    The second insight came from reading a book with one of the best titles around, “Evil Genes: Why Rome Fell, Hitler Rose, Enron Failed, and My Sister Stole My Mother’s Boyfriend,” by Barbara Oakley. It seems the psychopath requires a genetic predisposition toward the condition (or a brain injury) along with environmental factors such as childhood abuse or other severe emotional trauma to end up without any capacity to feel empathy for other humans. So in a sense, they really have no control over who they are.

    Their actions seem so unpredictable, and yet they are very limited in the ways they can respond to life situations because they have no connection to other people. They are very empty, lonely islands and the cause of their hateful attacks is their own faulty brain function, which has nothing to do with you or me.

    Their targets do fit a certain profile, but the characteristics are those that this empty person can never have and that is nothing to be ashamed of. The fault lies with their disease brain, which they are helpless to control. I can’t say that realization sent me over to a place of forgiveness, but it did allow me to take a breath once in a while and appreciate what I had (that they never would.)

  53. Hubbard payed Lip service

  54. And yes thank God(if he exists) Hubbard was absolutely right on that

  55. “Best Duet Ever”

  56. Cat Daddy, did you read the whole bulletin, or did you simply re-quote what someone else had quoted without knowing or including any of the context? I think the context makes a difference in understanding what LRH was trying to get across. Here’s some of the context:


    “And we have had some auditors in South Africa who have actually succeeded in training natives easily and well and have successfully managed large organizations there. That’s certainly something. Now with these people it was still possible to get something done. But what had this native done? Was this native what we think of as primitive stock? No, we make a great many mistakes. We say a child is in a ‘native state.’ A native is in a ‘native state.’

    “People are in a barbaric condition and then they grow up and become civilized. How do we know that this barbaric condition isn’t a retrogression from a highly civilized condition back to an Only One category? How do we know that isn’t true? How do we know that that native didn’t at one time achieve a great civilization of culture which then collapsed on him and he went back into a state of being a barbarian?

    “But the point is – is this true that a native is in a clearer state, and is it true that it requires Livingness to advance somebody in that crude state up to a condition of ability? No, that is not true. The child, the primitive, the native, are in retrograded states. They are worse off than somebody who is at a civilized or thinking or analytical level.

    “I will give you an interesting example of this. If you can tell the difference between a lot of little kids you run into, and psychos, I’ll give you a medal. Now the funny part of it is that little kids have something to hope for. They have the future to grow up into. And that’s their only asset. Almost everything else is on the debit side of the column. Here is this poor devil who has been slugged, he’s just lost a body, he’s been put into a state of anxiety; here he’s got another body, is it going to get along right or isn’t it? He’s got the hope that it will grow and that alone can carry him forward and color the world brightly for him, but at the same time he is suffering from death shock…

    “And very often you get a preclear who is suffering merely from the death shock. And he is psychotic, he’s crazy, he doesn’t know whether he is coming or going. Why? Because he’s surrounded by things he cannot understand—and that is the common denominator of all lack of orientation, of all aberration. It’s being surrounded by things you cannot understand. And a child, surrounded by these things he cannot understand, therefore can produce what we call childhood delusions…

    “But all I am telling you is that children, South African natives, and now the entirety of this world in which we are living, present to us an auditing problem. We are rich in being able to understand what is happening in our environment and we are rich also in knowing exactly how to handle such a circumstance or condition…”

  57. martyrathbun09

    Your ‘defense’ exacerbates your problem.

  58. Tom Gallagher

    “Civilization, as we know it, is largely the creation of psychopaths. All civilizations, our own included, have been built on slavery and mass murder. Psychopaths have played a disproportionate role in the development of civilization, because they are hard-wired to lie, kill, cheat, steal, torture, manipulate, and generally inflict great suffering on other humans without feeling any remorse, in order to establish their own sense of security through domination.”

    – Andrzej Lobaczewski, in “Political Ponerology: A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes”

  59. Do you mean you disagree that the context makes a difference in interpreting that LRH quote, or even makes it worse? To me, LRH was basically saying that the circumstances of people – NOT their inherent qualities – make them susceptible to certain difficulties which auditing can handle. And he was referring not just to South African natives, but children and others in the world who don’t “understand what is happening in our [their] environment.” – whereas Scientology does contain the missing data.

  60. “But the point is – is this true that a native is in a clearer state, and is it true that it requires Livingness to advance somebody in that crude state up to a condition of ability? No, that is not true. The child, the primitive, the native, are in retrograded states. They are worse off than somebody who is at a civilized or thinking or analytical level.”

    “I will give you an interesting example of this. If you can tell the difference between a lot of little kids you run into, and psychos, I’ll give you a medal.”

    I’m for once so glad that the great white man came to civilize us from our total ignorance and hopeless native state of psychosis.

    Now we can drive SUVs, watch TV and shop at Wal-Mart. We can finally live in ghettos and serve the white man, isn’t life wonderful?

    More importantly the white man gave us their highly evolved messianic religions, we can be saved and engage in jihad, and know that we have a superior God watching our backs. We have it right this time!

  61. Hello Marildi:
    I understand what you, and Ron, were trying to get across.
    My take?
    Circumstance, broadly speaking, is the primary driver of how much case and which areas of case are in restimulation and held in restimulation. How un-undwestandable and confusing one’s environ. is can affect how analytical or confused one is from moment to moment. As one handles and understands his environ. he comes uptone. As one grows out of childhood, he also gaines more discipline over his own case and becomes more analytical. A child, as with a psychotic, and many so called ‘natives’, has little discipline over his own case. In some environs. there is little ethics presence or incentive to impose self discipline.
    This applies broadly and there are more or fewer exceptions in different environs.
    Makes sense to me. I have seen this principal in action many times.
    In reading Ron, OR ANYONE ELSE, look for and duplicate the actual communication that is being conveyed. Looking for errors can blind one to the actual truths. A pot hole is easily repaired and shouldn’t close the entire highway.

  62. To Tom G.:
    Do you base your past post on whole track knowledge? In my examination of my past, I have found the same to be generally true of the previous 2 or 3 large, common universes. (Still existing, just rather run down) A group of self declared leaders, bosses, gods, psychs, whatever they call themselves, did most of the constructing of this area and decided what the rules would be. These methods were fermented in smaller, more compartmented universes. The complexities of MEST and 3rd Dyn. interaction are no accident and are designed to “keep people in line” with the justification that it is for “their own good”. Control and domination is the driving intention.
    This is a rich area of discussion and I have found just a few of the original intentions that are are currently in play. Would like to hear more of your thoughts.

  63. Conan:
    Interesting line of thought you chose to pursue. I chose a different path as indicated by my previous comment.
    I have found myself increasingly able to separate and view individually the different parts of Ron and others. Just as my wife is great in bed but not much in the kitchen, an excellent pharmacist but not much of a conversationalist, the different parts of an individual each have their own value or defect and stand on their own.
    I’d bet a dollar that there are things that you are more skillful at than I and vice versa.
    Just my thoughts. Your thoughts?

  64. Tom G.:
    I looked over the Wiki Description of Ponerology and it seems that Lobaczewski had DM really pegged and how other similar individuals and groups rise to power. I can’t agree with all his explanations of the basic causes, but how these principals operate in present time are surprisingly accurate.
    Got a paper on “Control” that you may enjoy. Let me know.

  65. Thanks, Mark. That’s how I see it too – that exact principle. There is plenty that Ron can be criticized for without “looking for errors.” And on top of it, I see an imbalance between the large number of comments that point out his admittedly gross errors compared to the number of comments regarding the outstanding contributions he made. So thank you for your duplication. And for speaking up!

  66. Yep Martin, you bring up the most important data; Ho Oponopono.

    I woke up during the middle of the night thinking about this subject and the idea of Ho Oponopono came to my mind as the about the only way to handle psychopaths.

    It was my plan to post it when I got up and I see you beat me to it.

    I recall posting about Ho Oponopono on IVy and TROM many yrs ago, in comm cycles where you were too.

    The principle of Ho Oponopono can be expanded to and combined with some advanced and specialized auditing tech by those sufficiently trained and proficient and experienced and skilled in the science and art of auditing, and spiritual healing, to handle anything.

    When done right, will produce amazing results.


  67. Thank you for that, I am lost for words

  68. Tom, the concept of civilization has had me intrigued for quite a while. Back when my attention and concern was being heavily focused on the myriad and gross imbalances of systems that I was perceiving and interpreting to be extant on Mother Earth, the idea of civilization and ‘being civilized’ became a burr under my saddle. I began asking myself…”How can being civilized be such a highly valued concept/condition when such a magnitude of atrocities, injustices and destruction occur within so called ‘highly civilized’ societies? The idea was most bewildering to me and I became quite annoyed by the concept of civilization and all its many ramifications. Then, one day, I was reading the chapter, Civilizations, in the book by Ken Carey called Return of the Bird Tribes, and I came across a statement that instantly brought the concept of civilization into a viable perspective for me. Here is that statement (I have posted it numerous times before on Marty’s blog posts):

    “People paying more attention to what other people tell them than to their own perception is the beginning of civilization.

    “It is the beginning of a twisting, warping influence that ultimately produces a shift in human orientation: from the internal guidance of the Great Spirit to external dominance by others.

    “Civilization does not occur among healthy people. In healthy, non-historical societies, people are not concerned with other people’s fantasies. They are certainly not manipulated through externally imposed descriptions of reality. In America, civilization was step backwards. However, for the warrior tribes, civilization was a step in the right direction.”

    Once again, it occurred to me Tom, that in a human state of consciousness, we cannot begin to conceive of how far out of alignment we are with the Spirit that we actually are. Indeed, we can get ourselves so far out of alignment that civilization can actually be a viable step in our journey Home.

  69. Garthered my thinking. Don’t you ever stop and think that the true barbarians are the people who asume others need to be trained to become acceptable beings in the eyes of the trainer.

    The story behind this song is when the tre barbarians get the insight that they were the wrong doërs

  70. Hi Martin, Thank you very much for your comment. And marildi and Dio much thanks to both of you as well for your contribution. This morning I am catching up on Marty’s posts that I have not yet read. As always, the posts and the ensuing comments launch me into explorations within (I am enormously grateful for this). When I read your comment Martin and then marilidi and Dio’s replies, I instantly thought about my Course in Miracle lesson that was the first thing I read this morning. As I thought about this a clarity came upon me with regard to TRUTH. Not the transitory truth of perception that is commonly regarded as being ‘The Truth’ but a constant TRUTH that is beyond perception, all symbols and time and space. TRUTH, cannot be altered by symbols so no matter what words are used to communicate an actual Truth, it is always TRUTH in spite of the myriad forms it might take in its conveyance. Admiration, Love, Ho’opnopo, miracle, forgiveness (without judgement) and on and on….different forms conveying the same constant TRUTH. Here’s a lengthy excerpt from lesson 341 in the course:

    “A miracle is a correction. It does not create, nor really change at all. It merely looks on devastation, and reminds the mind that what it sees is false. It undoes error, but does not attempt to go beyond perception, nor exceed the function of forgiveness. Thus it stays within time’s limits. Yet it paves the way for the return of timelessness and love’s awakening, for fear must slip away under the gentle remedy it brings.

    “A miracle contains the gift of grace, for it is given and received as one. And thus it illustrates the law of truth the world does not obey, because it fails entirely to understand its ways. A miracle inverts perception which was upside down before, and thus it ends the strange distortions that were manifest. Now is perception open to the truth. Now is forgiveness seen as justified.

    “Forgiveness is the home of miracles. The eyes of Christ deliver them to all they look upon in mercy and in love. Perception stands corrected in His sight, and what was meant to curse has come to bless. Each lily of forgiveness offers all the world the silent miracle of love. And each is laid before the Word of God, upon the universal altar to Creator and creation in the light of perfect purity and endless joy.

    “The miracle is taken first on faith, because to ask for it implies the mind has been made ready to conceive of what it cannot see and does not understand. Yet faith will bring its witnesses to show that what it rested on is really there. And thus the miracle will justify your faith in it, and show it rested on a world more real than what you saw before; a world redeemed from what you thought was there.

    “Miracles fall like drops of healing rain from Heaven on a dry and dusty world, where starved and thirsty creatures come to die. Now they have water. Now the world is green. And everywhere the signs of life spring up, to show that what is born can never die, for what has life has immortality.”

  71. Psychopaths are driven to win at all costs, though it isn’t “winning” in the positive sense of achieving success but rather as causing others to lose. Problem solving? I doubt that is the case I would say it’s more of an “I win if you lose” mentality.

  72. Cat Daddy, you are a gem. I could learn from your humility. 🙂

    You asked, “Don’t you ever stop and think that the true barbarians are the people who asume others need to be trained to become acceptable beings in the eyes of the trainer.”

    Yes, I have thought about that. And I think Hubbard did too, at least at one time. That song you posted reminded me of a novel he wrote titled “Buckskin Brigades,” which I read years ago. Here’s a statement I found about it, which matches my recall of the book and how moved I was:

    “L. Ron Hubbard’s full-length novel… A ‘decidedly rare type of romance,’ declared the New York Times, and pointed to the fact it presented the first real reversal of what comprised a fairly ethonocentric cliché, i.e. the Native American as a murderous savage. Indeed, as Council Members of the Blackfeet Nation were to later declare, ‘Never have our morals and ethics been presented with such clarity.’”

  73. Thank you for the reply.

    Well than the “whites” in South Africa where the ones that needed retraining, and so the world and forces of good within South Africa did.

    Sorry about the Royal Shell coöparation, another psychopath company.


  74. I have been doing more thinking about psychopaths.

    I think it is important to realize the aberrations a psychopath displays are all signs and cries, in disguise, for help. The person is in severe pain and has really no clue about what to do about it. He was just conceived in worse sin and aberration than anyone else.

    I would suggest that the higher evolved being, one that knows better, a true a spiritual healer, see the aberrations for what they are, (as I explained in my previous post) see through and past the aberrations and clear and heal the person from and on a spiritual level.

    I don’t think there is any other option. I think it is the responsibility for those sufficiently skilled in the science and art of auditing and spiritual healing to do the job.

    To all those who point fingers at the psychotic, sneer, scoff, scorn and berate him, condemn him, criticize him, accuse him, blame him, speculate and otherwise do what has been going on on this blog, you are as much a part of the problem as he is.

    Similar to how Hubbard described in Dianetics, the criminal and the accuser should be hung from the same tree.

    If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

    Based on what I know, a good understanding of the science and art of auditing plus a good understanding of the bible and Ho Oponopono will do the job, when done right. The more other data and experience you have the better. Of course, if it is not done right, it will not work. And if it it does notwork, you did not do it right.

    Such psychopathic persons vary in severity of aberrations from mild to severe.

    The more severe ones will take more work than the less severe ones.

    I used to think that one should not interfere in another’s case, that means remotely process someone without their permission.

    I have now changed my mind about that.

    The bible says pray for your enemies and bless them and no one will ever hurt you. The solution I described above is on the same wave length, the same idea, as this biblical principle. Just expanded and extended for the ones who have more knowledge and ability.

    To whom more is given more is expected.

    And I doubt there is anyone in the world who can do more to help such people than a skilled auditor, with a good understanding of the bible (doing the healing in the name of Jesus) and Ho Oponopono, plus what ever else. If an Hawaiian psychiatrist can heal a whole psyche hospital of patients, than surely someone like I described above can do it too.

    If you already have a good understanding of auditing, and are adequately skilled in it, read Joe Vitale’s book and the bible, at least to start with.

    A good understanding of Silva Mind Control Method will help a lot too.

    I have read the CIM a couple of times, and spent a few yrs in it’s study, and I do not rate it very high at all in my tool box.

    But if it works for some, so much the better.


  75. Without reading “Buckskin Brigades”, to know what you people are talking about, those that condemn the native American Indian as a savage, fail to realize that such accusers would react the same way if their homes and land were being usurped.


  76. Yes, I agree with you about the “whites.” And I believe LRH did too, because besides “natives” he had also commented on the so-called (but not) “civilized” white man being in need of training and auditing too – maybe more so. 😉

  77. Right, Dio. I think that was LRH’s point – that circumstances is one factor that needs to be taken into account with regard to the condition of persons.

  78. “Firstly, I looked at who they were and realized I had been duped into thinking they had enormous power, when in fact they were a nobody in the grand scheme of things.”

    Psychopaths are big black holes of nothingness. When you peel back the layers of false charisma, the mimicked emotions, the fleeting “successes”, you inevitably find there is nothing there but an utterly failed human being.

  79. knatherthomas

    The idea that it is a “gift” to accept (really demand) that one be supported by one’s victims also manifests in “junkie logic.” When stealing his mom’s (sister’s, friends, etc) TV set to pawn, a junkie rationalizes this action with the idea that the loved one wouldn’t want him/her to be sick so “they’d want me to take it.” Of course drugs are known to make people psychotic.

    The sad thing for the little psycho who can’t leave you be, Marty, is that he really isn’t even in his own valence. He’s doing a life-continuum of LRH. If that seems too far fetched or mean spirited read Bent Corydon’s “Messiah or Madman?” Even with all the money and man power he has at his disposal DM can’t out hate LRH in sentiment or deed.

  80. Hi Mark,

    It is difficult to find someone to agree to real high theta truth.
    Most boil over.


  81. LRH was much smoother than DM, who is just a rough-cut thug version of the earlier cleaner cut smoother talking presenter.

    I will never forget the old video they used to play – LRH being interviewed by Tony Hitchman (before Tony became a Scientologist I think). In one part, LRH narrows his eyes – what a frightening portent that small action was – my interpretation is: “Watch out, you have no idea who you are messing with…I am no victim, I will not be killed, I will kill”. For just that moment, the clouds parted, the smile was snuffed, and inner ruthlessness was bared for all to see (if they would only see it, it was RIGHT THERE). Too bad I was too blind to see, or rather, too bad I decided to be blind – probably one of my own first definite thought-stopping actions in Scientology.

  82. Hi all. I just wanted to say what a remarkable thread to be reading at 2:49 am on psychopaths. I m currently trying to understand the opposite spectrum of this as I am an empath.
    Appreciate all of the information shared & powerful insights.

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