Scientology and Obsessive Causation

But for the first and last paragraphs, provided here only for context, the following is a newly included passage to venture seven of a course in graduating from Scientology:

How did the 14th Dalai Lama, Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King attain such world-transforming power? Certainly, not by coveting it. They more likely manifested the following passage from the Tao:

The Master doesn’t try to be powerful; thus he is truly powerful.

The ordinary man keeps reaching for power; thus he never has enough.

By their philosophies and actions their extraordinary pacifist powers were consistent with James Allen’s universe view as articulated in As A Man Thinketh:

A man only begins to be a man when he ceases to whine and revile, and commences to search for the hidden justice which regulates his life.  And as he adapts his mind to that regulating factor, he ceases to accuse others as the cause of his condition, and builds himself up in strong and noble thoughts; ceases to kick against circumstances, but begins to use them as aids to his more rapid progress, and as a means of discovering the hidden powers and possibilities within himself.

Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe; justice, not injustice, is the soul and substance of life; and righteousness, not corruption, is the molding and moving force in the spiritual governance of the world.  This being so, man has but to right himself to find that the universe is right; and during the process of putting himself right he will find that as he alters his thoughts towards things and other people, things and other people will alter towards him.

In contrast, given its emphasis on – even obsession with – power and causation attainment, is it any wonder that all the most ‘powerful’ in Scientology, including Hubbard himself, wound up so powerless and miserable?

207 responses to “Scientology and Obsessive Causation

  1. A truth so profound that I feel any comment I make will only distract from it. And it CAN be applied with simplicity. Right myself. Stop whining. Stop kicking back. These I can do and/or observe when I don’t.

  2. Not it is not. Thank you Marty.

    I like meditation, it helps me becoming centered, and calms down the obsessive causation that the mind is always involved with.

    And there is science to back it up now:

  3. “As a Man Thinketh” is a great book. We are each and all evolving and there is a spiritual governance in the universe and in ourselves. To not be aware of its existence or able to appreciate how one needs to work with it and understand it for their own growth is a place of darkness. Thanks for highlighting it, Marty.

  4. I have a question for you, Marty, or for anyone on this Blog.

    Do you believe that it is an important step to look at the considerations which a Scientologist adopted and used to make disastrous decisions in his life?

    For instance, let’s say a Scientologist owned a business. And let’s say his best salesman was always butting heads with him. The two of them disagreed on the direction of the company and how to improve it. These disagreements became heated and both of them became upset with each other.

    While this upset was raging between the two, the owner decides to whip out the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation, his copy of Science of Survival, and his PTS/SP course pack. He begins thinking about their arguments and runs the salesman through this human evaluation tech that Hubbard developed.

    At the end of this, the owner decides that the Salesman is an “SP” and fires him. The business begins to collapse and falls into bankruptcy.

    From then on, the owner blames the salesman, the “SP”, as the cause of his company’s downfall.

    In my opinion, the SP tech in this instance was the cause of the disaster. It stopped the owner from trying to listen to and understand the salesman, and exactly what the salesman was trying to achieve. The SP tech in this instance, caused the owner to stop listening, to stop trying to understand, and to wash his hands of the best salesman he had. SPs are out to destroy everything and everyone around them, despite what they say. (And they can be very convincing, after all)

    Even after a Scientologist gets out of the Church, they can still believe in SPs, and can still continue to treat people they come into contact with in this uselessly destructive way.

    Looking at the ideas that Hubbard sold the Scientologist under the guise of helping him “shatter suppression” in his life (when actually the PTS/SP tech was developed only to protect Hubbard’s income by discrediting and quarantining people who would not buckle under, or shut up) the former business owner might be able to realize why and how he made the decisions he did to ruin his own business.

    Do you think that he would be “being a victim” by blaming Scientology for his disastrous decision-making, or could examining the decision making process lead the former Scientologist to better “tech” with which to make decisions in the future?

    I think it is important to spot the beliefs and considerations you were operating under when you made decisions in your life, in order to improve your decision making skills after Scientology.

    What do you think?


  5. Jean-François Genest

    Totally true. Laser-sharp once again.

    • One one hand, at the core, the Dianetics/Scientology “scriptures” in the books, red technical bulletins and lectures aim at helping a person achieve and understand the principles presented in the Tao, As A Man Thinketh, and other philosophical works.

    • On the other hand, the “policy scriptures” in the policy letters, Sea Org Flag Orders, Central Bureaux Orders, Executive Directives, WDC EDs, CMO EDs, Marketing Series, Personnel Series, Developed Traffic Series, etc. aim exactly at what you point out → OBSESSIVE DOMINATION, POWER, being at CAUSE, in-ETHICS, in CONTROL, a continuous, endless search for the attainment of these nouns, false states of being.
    Examples: Flag Order “Ethics Presence” ; Flag Order “Take Charge” ; policy “Environmental Control” ; policy “Handling the Public Individual” , the OSA series, etc. The LARGE importance given to ranks, hierarchy and campaign-bars-on-the-left-chest in the Sea Org is just fascinating!
    We better NOT find someone enjoying being at EFFECT once in a while. That’s a sacrilege ! Thou MUST strive to be at CAUSE !

  6. By the way, the reason I wrote this is because your “As a Man Thinketh” quote seems to suggest you should avoid this kind of analysis of the data and considerations you were operating under as a Scientologist, and just “move on”.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I had to sort out what was me, and what was Scientology, after Scientology. And I believe that the process of re-examining Scientology helped me to take responsibility for my own vulnerabilities, and weaknesses which led me into some of the disasters I experienced as a Scientologist.

    Was it just me, and how I needed to deal with having been involved in Scientology, or is there a better way?


  7. The quest continues.

  8. The SP teach is not the cause. Data is never cause. Even if it is wrong data.

    The man applying the SP tech is the cause. He took action.

    If you apply the definition of integrity, you can take Ron’s words with a grain of salt. I highly recommend looking at much of Ron’s policies as, “Well, that’s Ron’s opinion.” Be your own best adviser.

  9. So Messiah comes from messenger ?
    NO IT DOES NOT RON, but the rest sounds okay.

  10. Hey ya all,

    You just got to listen to this one!

    Do not miss this one for anything!


  11. Innocent Bystander

    Beautiful, Marty. +100

  12. Rings true. Even so, I find that the man was brilliant and his works are as well.

  13. My favorite book on my journey is “The Book” by Alan Watts. It will kick your ass and make you find inner peace. And how incredibly stupid being ’cause over life’ is.

  14. Alanzo said,”Do you believe that it is an important step to look at the considerations which a Scientologist adopted and used to make disastrous decisions in his life?”

    Alanzo, my opinion is we should be constantly reevaluating perspectives. Actually, I think we are constantly upgrading our comprehension of the real and the unreal all the time, if we are transformationally inclined.

    About every two years I dump concepts from my mind, cherished beliefs, that I hold dear. I don’t allow myself to think with them. I go on a doctrinal/dogma fast.

    It is an interesting and uplifting process. I have found that if itvis true, those perspectives, they will stand up to my scrutiny and doubt.

    I have found there are unchanging principles that exist beyond belief and mental bias.

    Being mentally free to evaluate any data, any doctrine or any teacher for that matter, is an essential quality in a student.

    Truth needs no regimented membership. Truth is no lackey to systems of thought, no slave to “only ways.”

    Truth can be a pain in the ass where emotionally held beliefs are concerned.

    Intellectual sovereignty demands courageous deconstruction of any mental construct that threatens excommunication for thinking for oneself.

  15. Elizabeth Hamre

    Knowing others is wisdom;
    Knowing the self is enlightenment.
    Mastering others requires force:
    Mastering the self needs strength.

    He who knows he has enough is rich.
    Perseverance is sign of willpower.
    He who stays where he is endures.
    To die but not to be perish is to be eternally present.

  16. Elizabeth Hamre

    The softest thing in the universe
    Overcomes the hardest thing in the universe.
    That without substance can enter where there is no room.
    Teaching without words and work without out doing
    Are understood by very few.

    E.H. Concept of the true power is not conceivable-understandable for those who have not stepped beyond the beliefs of humans.

  17. I was watching a movie last night, you know the type with a good guy and the bad guy. Of course the bad guy is always psychotic and if he is the boss man usually there’s a scene where someone screws up on one of his direct orders and he turns around and shoots them. I always think to myself why would you tolerate that if you knew eventually he would turn on you and you would be the victim. Then I thought of David Miscavige. I think that we have become so numb from the incredulous behavior of this man we forget how psychotic he really is. If we wrote a script to make a fiction movie about a character like him and his behavior towards his members of his organization, it most likely would be rejected because no one could be that psychotic and still be able to run an organization of the size of Scientology without internal revolt of his members. . What is amazing most dictators have an armed force to keep them in power. What does Miscavige have, a few bodyguards? I do remember the analogy in one of Hubbard’s books of how this tribe caught fish by using a contraption that would cast a shadow of bars around the school of fish and they would not cross it. I think we have all fallen into this trap at one time or another with Scientology. Someday Miscavige will fall

  18. I can see many instances where, once the individual concentrates in the achievement of ‘power’ and control, the inevitable outcome will be destruction for those around him and the person himself.

    Also, blaming or whining about somebody else’s actions and using them as the source of your own failures, limits your strength, observation and power of choice.

    One is the source of his own life and an honest creation of it will give you joy, experience, changes and strength to carry on improving it the best you choose.

  19. “Data is never cause”.

    In Book 1, Ron wrote about “held down 7s” which were causing you to be aberrated, and which needed to be audited out so that you would not be aberrated any more.

    People train to be an auditor and the data they receive supposedly makes them more causative.

    So even within the Scientology Mindset, data is considered cause.

    A person can take one action based on the data he has in his head, say, that thought a person had just robbed a bank because he come out with a mask on and a gun in his hand.

    But if he had the data the guy was an actor and this was a movie scene being shot, he would take a completely different action.

    So the data you have in your head causes you to make the decisions you make and take the actions you take.

    I have to disagree that “data is never cause”.

    As a discreet population, Scientologists have a very high right of bankruptcy, divorce, broken families and failed businesses. They must have some held down 7s they are operating on – don’t you think?


  20. Brain wrote:

    Intellectual sovereignty demands courageous deconstruction of any mental construct that threatens excommunication for thinking for oneself.

    I agree.

    Scientology have so many “stable datums” that continue to operate in mental pathways that I think it is important to re-evaluate Scn from a new and more “exterior” perspective.

    I know people who have been out for years, and they still operate on Scientology “stable data” and have not done this kind of thorough house cleaning. They just “moved on” and didn’t even want to think about Scientology any more.

    Wherever they went, there they were.


  21. I see what you did there:

    “Water is fluid, soft, and yielding. But water will wear away rock, which is rigid and cannot yield. As a rule, whatever is fluid, soft, and yielding will overcome whatever is rigid and hard. This is another paradox: what is soft is strong.”

    ― Lao Tzu

  22. Tao Te Ching – a message of Peace, of Simplicity, of Humility

  23. Since Scientologists have expierience listening to audio tapes:

  24. Alanzo, I do not see in the work “As a man Thinkest” the suggestion that one should not engage in self-anlaysis or self-examination. To me, one of the thrusts of the work was to encourage a person to examine their thoughts, sort and distill them to keep those with higher and nobler purpose. As far as scientology goes, you seem to have done a lot of work on analyzing your involvement and ideas. I don’t think one size fits all in regards to that. Some leave and never look back, some straddle the fence, some may engage in a mental sort out. I think most do a sort out but its over years and years, even decades. And not even intentionally. This blog has been key in helping people with that sort out. You sound like you addressed it sooner than most and with much more vigor. But I think the book in question is primarily meant to direct its reader to the bigger picture of life in terms of justice. There was a reason you and I and others had the experience of becoming involved with scientology. As each comes to understand that reason we should be able to cease being adversely effected by that involvement to a greater degree. Only you know how your scientology experience fits in with the bigger picture of your existence: why it happened and how, in your case, separation from it enabled you to grow. I do feel that the type and length of the involvement most of us had, will, upon examination, reveal as many motivations which we need to dissolve as the ones we wish to keep. As for the subject of scientology itself, its not as important as the fact that it was just a vehicle we needed at that moment in our journey.

  25. Elizabeth Hamre

    🙂 simplicity holds no humility. simplicity IS and nothing more. Humility is already on addition to IS or NOW.

  26. Elizabeth Hamre

    Yes, if I interpret auditing-confronting than I say I have removed the rock-walls-barriers all which one is anchored by and anchored to therefore the possibility of the conflict can not happen= no restimulation . Only created has the ability to collide, hold, push, only mass of solidity has power-force. with that limitation.

  27. Because of the keeping of history we know of this work/knowledge. Or as Anonymous says: DOX

    I see a paradox, If I would follow these teachings I would not atach so much importance to the keeping history and live in the here and now.

    Not even to the correctness of it, but if not for the keeping of history we would not have this work/knowledge

  28. Elizabeth Hamre

    obsessive causative-ness that need to do, to cause is imbedded in the need-want of constant stimulation.
    Bigger, better and to have more of the same never quenches that thirst.

  29. Elizabeth Hamre

    CT…. every one of those points I can translate into and describe how and why Auditing Tech works when applied of course

  30. Sounds a lot like Buddhism to me. Change is at the heart of all things, and all things are controlled by universal forces; our desires will never overcome reality, and so we are conflicted… frustrated, stressed, always reaching because we’re like children who don’t understand we already have everything. We are everything. It would be like a drop in the ocean trying to achieve some measure of permanence or control over the whole ocean…

  31. Marty, I wish I had not blamed the church for a condition I was in but I did in the past. A being is much more powerful, much more operating as a being when he or she doesn’t do that. 🙂 It reached the sad point one time where someone said to me “Why don’t you just forget about that f*****g church”. To forget and not confront would be like death sentence. Instead, I recalled all that happened that pertained to the church and then I moved on up to a slightly higher level of existence than I was at before I saw the whole picture. 🙂 I am glad for that responsibility and to have taken the inertest enough in my self and others around me to want to know. My only regret? Woulld be that this tech was not around forever! 🙂 Well I guess we can all blame LRH for that! 🙂 IT WAS HIS FAULT! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  32. I know a man who did just that , fired his associates on a purely judgemental impulse of the man state or supposed state.
    He lost everything very shortly after that and pretty much never recovered his previous wealth.
    It is not the chart of human evaluation that is to blame per say , it is the mind set of KSW , the complete certainty that one is right because he knows better , that closes the door to looking and being rational and thinking with the chart versus taking it as an absolute guide disregarding the individual in front of you with his strenght and weaknesses , turning him in some kind of poster guy for pTSness and other labels.
    There goes compassion and understanding and patience ,all the good stuff you need in any relationship.
    The “glare of dedication”, the underlying threat if you don’t follow the tech perfectly , produced “frozen” people , strong in their belief that they are doing the right thing even in the face of obvious failure.Pity!
    The world of a scientologist is an all or nothing world , no room for a middle path.

  33. Elizabeth Hamre

    I am not a history buff or scientology buff for the fact… I was in and out fast.. I bought the services and I used what I bought… that is all.. what I read these days in blogs how people see scientology that is alien to me.. But reading and understanding TaoTe Ching is aligned with my belief and that reality is from the realizations: the end product of the sessions.

  34. Marty, Thank you so much. This is my understanding day to day too. When I go a bit from center I just have to pull out a book. I’m reading Buddha’s Brain from your reading list now.
    “ has but to right himself to find that the universe is right;”
    It’s always so nice to see truth spoken.

    And this is a new to me thought: “Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe.” I sure hope this is true 🙂
    And of course someday I will be certain of that too. Such a good way to “Let it go” to know this.

  35. The problem with PTS/SP tech is that it is flawed and/or incomplete. The original 1976 pack is the best of course since a lot has been confused and removed since the new version in 1986. But even with the original pack I concluded that the anti-social characteristics that Hubbard provided do not serve well to clearly identify an “SP.” Personally for me I worked out a few of anti-social characteristics that help me address and understand this area with much greater confidence.

  36. Data is used in evaluation which leads to certain decisions/postulates and actions so it’s definitely important from that point of view.

  37. I like your question Alanzo.
    I think ‘blame’ is different then ‘understanding’. I think that when one does have understanding there will be no blame.
    Something else is when I ‘spot the beliefs’ that caused trouble – I call that ‘False Data Stripping’ and it seems to come when I’m ready – as I make myself a better person.

  38. Data can only be cause when a person with that data is cause. But that means the only causative entity is the person. The data on its own does not cause anything. To make an example, you always have to throw a person into the situation. Always.

    That is the case with the auditor. And the person witnessing an actor. And the person carrying around false solutions (held down 7).

  39. The tech is man’s best effort to return self-determinism to individuals.

    Admin and ethics were man’s best effort to take it back away. But they have no power any more.

    The more data I look at since leaving the cult, the more I’m finding this to be the case.

  40. Yeah… and the communication formula is Cause – Distance – EFFECT so must be able to give and receive, be cause and effect (or I’d say be able to cause and experience an effect) in order for communication to occur… hence there is no real communication with “devout” Scientologists as it is only one way -> my way or the highway. Two-way communication can possibly occur within “my way” area as in the form of handing in money or “success stories” but not so much when it comes to questioning and disagreeing.

  41. Elizabeth Hamre

    2briancox… you speak well brian cox..

  42. Elizabeth Hamre

    2briancox you don’t need agreement from me but here it is, you have it.

  43. Elizabeth Hamre

    🙂 I wonder if your post was triggered by my comment.

  44. Elizabeth Hamre

    A bit more on power….
    If those man whose name you have mentioned: if their words were heard but not agreed to could these man have become powerful and therefore have the control?
    Or have gained power because of the agreement they have collected?

    If Gautama would not have been born into the Royal House but into a family who enjoyed the privileges of the Lowest Sect but still would have the knowledge would he be listened to.. would he be still heard and fallowed because others recognised his wisdom?
    I don’t believe that could have happened.. people love to stand by ”important, well-known people.
    On this Planet collective agreement is the tool which solidifies or defeats every concept ever rose; that includes who has the power and who can control.

  45. Hmm nope, hadn’t read any comments before I commented. Probably more likely that I’m a Buddhist and have absorbed Buddhist doctrines that are very similar to the tone of Mark’s blog post. =)

  46. Recently I thought about who is the most powerful man women or group on Earth. Who has really power. Is it Obama? Putin?
    Maybe it is an OT with super powers. Or a group if OTs that can make rocks melt.
    We live in a modern society. 2000 years back in the woods in Europe to be able to melt rocks and kill at a distance would be a powerful person. But today such a person can accomplish nothing.
    The most powerful group of people on Earth are:….. Computer System Administrators.
    They can do everything. They can turn off the lights on a continent. If Obama orders a new war they can undo that order. They can make someone poor. Even the Queen could be made to have no money at all.
    Power is nothing in the modern world.

  47. Okay I listened to it with attention imyself and I have a really hard time concentrating. for too long a time. If I can do it so can you.

  48. Hello Alonzo.
    Thought about your comment.
    Let’s say a restaurant owner heard that salt and sugar were the two most important flavor enhancers. He then proceeded to add 1 oz of salt and two oz’s of sugar to every serving of everything. He would be operating on accurate data but was a friggin idiot and would go out of business.

    Let’s say the salesman you imagined was suppressive in some areas of life but was an excellent salesman. Firing him would of course be just stupid. Let’s say that he was mostly suppressive in most of his activities. It’s a gradient, you know. He could have been selling unneeded products to little old ladies, and stealing prospects from his fellow salesmen. He may also have been disrupting his fellow workers and be the actual source of their poor sales.

    His business may very well increase after the firing. Additionally, would you want to get rich producing an overt product and harming others?

    SP tech can be used to improve your life and the life of others when well understood and used wisely. I have a brother who is severely obsessed with SPs. It is one of his ruins and makes his life miserable.

    Your scenario was over simplistic and intended to promote a false understanding. Perhaps you have been exposed to persons who used what little knowledge they had for their own harmful purposes. I once lost a good wife because of my own stupidity and superiority attitude. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. But you have to get a little knowledge before you can get a lot.

  49. 2briancox –

    Well, now I think we are touching on Marty’s idea of obsessive causation that was in the title of his post.

    In my studies since leaving Scientology, I have come to see that human beings are surrounded by causes that they can not control, and are always the effect of these, no matter how hard they try.

    For instance, old age, illness, and death. These 3 things are Cause to a human being and there is very little that the human being can do to not be the effect of them. They can try, and they can tell themselves that they can hold off these causes for a little while, but they are ultimately always effect of these causes, and always will be. Successful living requires a person to spot these non-human Causes and work respectfully with them.

    I have found that the philosophical viewpoint of Cause and Effect in Scientology is extremely simplistic, teaching Scientologists that cause always comes down to a person. Scientology can never acknowledge any other cause in the universe than a thetan.

    This is why David Miscavige built The Hole. The cause for Scientology’s failure HAD to be a person. A thetan. It could NEVER be Scientology itself. And so, as Scientology continued to cause its own failure, Scientologists were incapable of seeing the correct cause, and David Miscavige had to blame Scientology staff members – the thetans applying Scientology. He had no choice if he was going to be thinking with Scientology.

    It’s almost like the logical fallacy of Ad hom (attack the man). Scientology teaches an obsessive Ad Hom view of cause.

    Like the symbol for the Tao, you can not have a cause without also having an effect. You can not be cause, without also being effect.

    The proof of this is that an actor in a situation can act, and still not be cause. The demonstration of this is switching data in the actor’s mind, which causes him to act in different ways. One set of data has the actor behave one way, and another set of data causes the same actor to behave in a completely different way. What changed?

    The data.

    Therefore, the data was the causative factor which made the actor do one thing, and not another. There are many subtle layers of this all around us in life.

    This blindness of the subtleties of cause, which is built into the very fabric of the Scientology philosophy, is a huge reason Scientology is collapsing around the world. David Miscavige is a walking poster child for Scientology’s blindness to true cause and effect.

    And his obsession with “The thetan as cause” causes most of the abuse that he wages on other Scientologists.

    Again, it’s the data in Miscavige’s mind that he is operating off of which is causing him to destroy the Scientologists around him.

    Data can most definitely be cause, and so are many others things that have absolutely nothing to do with a thetan.


  50. Elizabeth Hamre

    🙂 have a lovely day!

  51. You speak of the material world.

  52. Right. Bad data can be the first link in a chain of steps that leads to a bad decision. So in that sense, bad data can cause (as in “lead to”) a bad decision. The GIGO principle — garbage in, garbage out.

  53. Nah the Technique runs deeper than that.

  54. You are confusing Techniques with Philosophy but are you alsoo refering to the “Occuping a point in space” stuff ? And you resist what you become and the GMP thing ?

    Of course you find tidbits of Tao Philosophy in Scientology transmorphed into Scientology terms

  55. Yes, KSW has an illogical loop that requires one to not want to know other viewpoints or wisdom (entheta, other practices, off purpose, etc.) and to believe one knows it all already (got the right tech, applying it correctly, etc.).

    This is an illogical loop because it nukes the first barriers to learning and study — not wanting to know or believing one knows it all already.

    The philosophical structure of Scientology is full of such irresolvable conflicts, and thus cannot function as a science, and has diminished what could have been a great step forward to a religion — a human phenomenon of which there are thousands, all believing they have the right way, and thus all stunted from not wanting to learn more and straitjacketed by believing they know it all already.

  56. “Additionally, would you want to get rich producing an overt product and harming others?”

    Hmm. Like Church of Scientology does?

  57. Vicar wrote:

    There was a reason you and I and others had the experience of becoming involved with scientology. As each comes to understand that reason we should be able to cease being adversely effected by that involvement to a greater degree.

    I think you are absolutely right.


  58. The paramilitary aspect is about as thrilling to most people as the uniforms of the Salvation Army.

    Hubbard could not succeed in the real US Navy. Therefore he created his own military.

    At one level, this was a sort of childish “nyah, nyah” shouted at those in the Navy who gave him bad reviews for firing at a submarine that may have been a magnetic anomaly and for wiping out some cactus on a Mexican island and found him unfit for command and in need of tight supervision.

  59. Awesome. I can see the wisdom of the East in your evaluation.

  60. Well said BrianC

  61. From that line of thinking, the most powerful people are those with their fingers on the nuclear button. They can not just turn off all the lights and wipe out wealth; they can turn out the lights permanently for the human species.

    As Ron points out, you are describing power in the material world. There is a very different kind of power that the human mind/soul/spirit/thetan/consciousness/etc. can aspire to.

  62. My thoughts on Marty’s post: beautifully insightful.

    Evidence for usefulness: immediately has provoked a lot of great discussion on this blog.

  63. Why did you post this ? It was hard to listen too. Batshitcrazy mofo’s

  64. FOT,

    The only true or bonafide religion of tomorrow is the impartial study of all religions, spiritual teachings and philosophy of the past.

    Read and study everything and glean what is good.
    Then hold fast on to that which is good and chuck the rest up to experience.

    The true value of any datum is determined only by how many problems it solves and how well it solves them.

    Not by authority, opinions, beliefs or by who wins an argument.

    Seek the truth in all things and the truth shall set you free from the bondage of your problems.

    For everything genuine, there is a perfect counterfeit.

    The real truth in this universe is hidden and protected by many layers of lies, traps and deception to protect it from swine and prostitutes.

    Success in any endeavor is determined by and relevant to the degree of correctness of one’s operating data.


  65. I once commented that as “source”L Ron Hubbard horded all the knowledge. and wanting to hord all the knowledge will make you less knowledgable in the end.

    Less Knowing as you will.

  66. Sure I speak of the physical universe. Outside the realm of this universe the word “power” would not be a good word to describe those phenomena that we use the word power for in this mechanical environment full of energy and flows and counter intentions.

    Outside of this universe “power” is based on respect. And that is based or earned on honesty. If you are honest to yourself fully you are so to speak “powerful”. No one can hurt you, no one can tamper with your integrity. Not on Earth or elsewhere.

    That is by my opinion the highest possible state one can attain.

  67. Marty,
    I’m going through the book. I’m still reeling form its effects. I definitely found myself in it. Thanks

    Here is a link to book

  68. This is funny In an Interview Miscavige was asked something like “What does it mean to have power”, He responded “when people listen to you”

    David the Taoist

  69. Elizabeth Hamre

    If I have confusion I am Ok with that.. Techniques and philosophy what is their importance value and how they were used do not matter much: the same source given birth to both of those concepts.

  70. Elizabeth Hamre

    I have used the auditing TECH for 38 years as a solo auditor and by now I DO KNOW HOW IT WORKS AND WHAT IT CAN BE ACCOPLISHED.

  71. Elizabeth Hamre

    good for David… and yes, in human reality that is power, the collected agreement or enforced agreement.

  72. Hey Dave, Are you feeling ad-VENTUR(E)-ous? How do you like being at the top of the dung heap?

  73. Cat Daddy,

    I assume you took it as true.

    It is not.

    It is a spoof on all the conspiracy theorists in the USA.

    Of which there appears to be about 50+% of the pop of the USA.
    NRA members, republicans , tea partyiers and other lower forms of life, those below 2 or so on the tone, theta and human evaluation scales.

    I thought it was hilarious.

    I could not stop laughing for most of the day.


  74. A reply ton Tony’s blog

    “Nietzsche observed that those who seek power over others do so because of the lack of power they have over themselves.”

  75. Intresting reply

    How about “destroy utterly”

  76. Elizabeth Hamre

    in the”universe” where one do not need the body but communication still used it is done by flashing a picture.
    than on a different level of communication, the picture flashing is not in use but thought-intention is applied.
    than again in more refined=less matter oriented society intention don’t exist. that is the IS the NOW.
    these are the layers of communication: the crudest form is:
    1 words, writing
    2 sounds-verbal
    3 picture + thoughts
    4 only thoughts
    5…IS=NOW. the experience in the moment in its creation.
    I have not read this formula, it come to me through cognitions in session.

  77. The Church would bill you for that.

  78. So basicly it was all you.

  79. Elizabeth Hamre

    PS: ones level of communication depends on just how much of the barriers-walls have been erased and those are the considerations one believes in and goes by- applies in ones so called ”life”
    In my reality I need to communicate in writing on and sending this gibber to you via the computer but in fact I am very sure that you have received my intention the thoughts in the moment they were created. The cognitions while doing the communication course and having auditing on that level those cogs, just gives a tiny glimpse into the understanding what is communication really means.

  80. Good question, Alanzo. For me part of the answer is in this clause:

    “And as he adapts his mind to that regulating factor, he ceases to accuse others as the cause of his condition, and builds himself up in strong and noble thoughts; ceases to kick against circumstances, but begins to use them as aids to his more rapid progress, and as a means of discovering the hidden powers and possibilities within himself.”

    When someone has erred or “been screwed” in a business (or other decision), one can use that to be miserable internally and with relationships with others. Or one can be resilient, pick up the pieces, and learn from what went wrong and do better.

    To get to the point of learning, one has to be able to analyze, think critically, observe, and make judgments.

    Let’s take the big picture of Church of Scientology. The group has allowed a person to rule the roost who is by many accounts a nut and a sociopath on top of it. He is a “crazy maker.” He also appears to be a criminal (assault, perjury, concealment of criminal conduct, violation of federal rules on religious status, etc.).

    Now, by writing that judgment, am I violating any of the Tao? My mental state as I write it is calm. I can see that Miscavige may have these horrible flaws, and yet may have some good traits, and has value as all humans do. In other words, my view of him, in Scientology terms, is more pan-determined than other- or self-determined. In the end, Miscavige has no more power than you or me. In fact, he only has power to the degree that you, me, and others “agree” that he has power — that we grant him that power. (In this sense, Hubbard had it right, that reality is an agreement — this is precisely the case in the sense of reality as a social or cultural construct.)

    In my view, one of the most pernicious things about Scientology is that it can make you PTS to yourself. If you become persuaded enough that Hubbard is always right, and you are less than you are (unmocked or invalidated by “Church authorities”), or that you have overts (who doesn’t?), and so on, you become the victim of your own past, present, and every random critical or otherwise unwanted thought that may cross your mind.

    This is part of the control mechanism of Scientology. It is why Sec Checks work — until you deconstruct the conditioning of Scientology and eventually stop caring what Hubbard, or the reg, or Miscavige, etc. would think about you and your “case.” Who are any of them to judge any individual? In the justice of the universe, it is way above their “pay grade.”

    There is a class of human that can be called sociopath or psychopath. Miscavige seems to fit the profile well. I’m not sure about Hubbard at this point in my own evolution. But the Scientology definition of SP is simply a cult control mechanism masquerading as truth — it is pseudo-psychology. Scientology’s SP is anyone who criticized Scientology; probably 99% of them are in no way, shape, or form sociopathic or suppressive.

    So Alanzo, I hope my skipping around on a few topics might be of interest for your question. There are sociopaths out there, and in my understanding it is perfectly fine to unpackage and understand how one was victimized — and may still be being victimized through the wrongful acts of others — without being a victim.

  81. Exactly.

  82. Well sometimes spoofs come earingly close to the truth, seems I have not payed attention

  83. In Scientology only one guy gets all the presents

  84. Dio:
    “NRA members, republicans , tea partyiers and other lower forms of life, those below 2 or so on the tone, ”

    Mark: Is this your actual opinion?

  85. Vicar, I very much appreciate your perspective as you eloquently stated in your reply to Alanzo. I especially appreciated your closing statement…”As for the subject of scientology itself, its not as important as the fact that it was just a vehicle we needed at that moment in our journey.” Vehicles…they come and go, come and go, come and go….until…and this is where something my friend, David Hoffmeister, said comes to mind…”The spiritual journey runs very, very deep, and ultimately transcends the idea of ‘different spiritual pathways.’ Along the way, however, it’s important to let the Spirit guide us in terms of which individual pathway will be most helpful for us to follow. And regardless of which path we are following, discipline and commitment will be required in order for the mind to achieve results in terms of inner peace, happiness, and joy.”

  86. Alanzo, it was a profound moment for me when I ceased treating SP and PTS tech as a viable technology and began to treat it as a belief system. Whatever I choose to believe is reflected in back to me in my physical experience. In other words, what I see witnesses to what I believe. It’s interesting that when I decided to no longer believe in SP and PTS tech with all its understandings and ramifications, my experience ceased reflecting components of SP and PTS. What was no longer believed no longer needed a witness.

  87. Elizabeth Hamre

    there are many facets to each concept and your reality and mine what is ”destroy utterly” could be listed among them.
    If you care to know the basic-basic I can give the answer to that.
    When a bomb has fallen on the house, yes that destroyed that concept changed it shape, but the particles which the house -shape was formed were still the same. [ I lived through the II world war.]

  88. Jean-François Genest

    His own military, yes.
    Maybe he thought that the symbolism/buttons linked with authority would work the same as using images from “implants” on the front covers of books:
    uniforms, discipline, the dichotomy of Superior↑ – inferior↓ ; Upstat↑ – downstat↓ ; orders and COMPLIANCE, fear of the grueling consequences of disobedience. I have seen & witnessed supposedly OT Sea Org Members high on the Grade Chart SHAKE WITH FEAR when “Senior Executives” from top management with 3 or 4 yellow bars on their sleeves walked into their workspace just to visit and say Hello. Terror!

    I guess these folks responded to the symbols. Many are still in there. I also see several of them on Facebook still connected to the intravenous Kool-Aid line. Still afraid to “loose their eternity” if they don’t toe the inverted-Scientology line.

    ► Interesting that all those new images on the cover of books DID NOT make the population of Earth frantically storm the bookstores and obtain those books. In fact, a LOT of HARD WORK and EFFORT had to be employed to PROMOTE those books. The images from “implants” did not create want. Oops! Didn’t work. Even if the books were FREE of charge, residents of Earth wouldn’t scramble to pick them up. Same is true with the Sea Organization, or Fleet. Not easy to recruit for the Sea Org. In fact, it is very difficult.

    ” … in the end, when we all make it, what will be YOUR answer to the question: “Did YOU help? …” L. Ron Hubbard 😉

  89. Jean-François Genest

    This part needs to be added to the above to complete the information ▼
    [“The Hope of Man” from The Phoenix Lectures]

  90. Outside this universe you need no power.
    Power = hold position in space = requires space. = the distance around you that you can control. Distance requires space. Control = start, change stop requires time.
    Look at Scientology Q1. Self determinism: requires space and time in which to locate matter and energy.
    By the way: OT is defined as cause of Matter, Energy, Space and Time… OT is not cause over awareness or knowledge or wisdom. Is not in the definition of OT. Therefore the abilities of any OT are limited.
    So, the state of OT is not very much desirable to attain as it is defined these days.
    An OT could be used to control a robot body in a mine on mars or things like that. In fact what a joke in itself. Someone pays lots of money to be able again to do a real slave job. No free time, work 24 hours (or whatever many hours a mars or moon day has) a day, every day, year for year.
    You think I am joking? Look at the recent developments on “man” machine interfaces.

  91. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Real Successful people are not fixed on being cause and changing things. They just do it and it’s for them a natural evolution in their life.

    Only people with low self confidence are looking for books, techniques and solutions to become more succesful and cause over life and masters of the universe. Why ?
    Because they have a low self confidence and are living an unhappy life !

    The illusions sold to them or the certificates that now they are OT mostly won’t change anything.

  92. And how about a man that puts that in his Philosophy ?

  93. I hadn’t noticed that, but I onley agree with him on the Tea Party nuts because they are a front group of the Koch Brothers Imperium

    The rest is just confusing isseus.

  94. Elizabeth Hamre

    🙂 +1

  95. Mark,

    Opinions are not worth the time of day.

    Beliefs are a confession of ignorance.

    So I do not function on opinions, nor beleifs.

    Based on a careful evaluation of the USA pop, I have to say it is a provable fact.

    And any argument or disagreement will not change the facts.

    It will not help to turn one’s head or put one’s head in the sand.

    It is sad but, to the best of my knowledge, true.



  96. CD,

    You are catching on.


    I think that Rabbi Finklestein might well be real.

    But he just has a few more smarts and wits on him than the average goyem.

    Agree with thine adversary.



  97. Elizabeth Hamre

    The concepts with the” I ME Self” have collected and agreed too.

  98. To me the point is that self analysis alone isn’t enough. This quote is basically saying to take all blame (“cause of their condition”) on oneself. I see the above quote as being earily too similar to Scientology. Yes we should analyze ourselves and our situation but not automatically take ont the blame for all our woes. Sometimes it IS the fault of others that we suffer. Scientology created an atmosphere where if you weren’t entirely happy and successful it was unacceptable. Many religious ideologies do so as well “you just didn’t have enough faith to be healed”; Karma; The Law of Attraction, ad nauseum. They have one thing in common: what is happening to you is your own fault and only you can change it. That quote is in effect blaming the victim just in a more wordy and profound way.

    Reality is much more complicated than that. The quote speaks of justice, law, and righteousness. None of these are possible without accountability. Law is useless without enforcement which implies judgement. The same is true of justice.

    We should all take responsibility for our own actions but not take on the blame for the actions of others even if it has greatly caused us harm.

    To put it more plainly: bad things happen to good people.

  99. Elizabeth Hamre

    actions are the showcases, the indicators … since actions are the images one puts forward for others to see, experience what one believes in.

  100. *tripple facepalm*

    You are as human as I am

  101. “Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You.”

    ― Dr. Seuss

  102. I think you make a lot of sense. It’s interesting to read former scientologists discussions. It’s not only a different language but a hole different way of seeing the world that doesn’t go away just because they’re blown.

    But sometimes we need to come down to earth so-to-speak and look at reality with clear glasses. Everyone needs to do this. We can’t alter reality to fit our notions on the universe. Reality is by definition true. It is harsh. Trust me when I say that these discussions would seem useless and silly in refugee camps or to starving children. When Haiti was devastated by an earthquake. We here in the wealthiest country in the world tried to make sense of it. It was blamed on the practice of voodoo or homosexuality. Or because they simply put something out into the universe that brought it on themselves. But children suffered and died. I’m sure they wouldn’t appreciate those theories at all. Neither would holocaust survivors.

    It is good to try to learn from all our experiences and to work to be better people. But attributing good to what is actually evil is counter-productive.

    The only proverb that actually agrees with the reality I see was spoken by wise King Solomon when he said: I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all. For man does not know his time. Just as fish are caught in an evil net and birds are caught in a trap, so the sons of men are ensnared in a time of disaster, when it suddenly overtakes them.

    In other words sometimes the victim is completely innocent and could not have foreseen or even avoided calamity.

  103. Mistylee, I think the underlying message here is for you and I to take control of our lives by taking control of our thoughts. The power we have is in how we react or respond to what is done to us. And at the same time, the author is saying that there is meaning and possibly justice connected with such events, and all events, and we should look for that meaning as well. Most of life’s challenges are an opportunity to grow if we treat it as that. That growth is measured by the quality of our responses and reactions. For some, no response or reaction might be an improvement.

  104. Interesting disclaimer.

  105. Just ordered Winter’s book; you have piqued my curiosity, Marty. How I wish than Ron had chosen a different path for this subject!

  106. First of all if the owner of the company is butting heads with his best sales person, reads, Science of Survival and does the PTS S/P course and from that decides to fire the sales person, I would say that the owner has BIG mis-understood words! You would have to be a dolt to think that just because you argue with someone that they are an SP. Of course I understand that in the current “church” one is in fact declared Suppressive just because you disagree, (I am gleefully one who got declared for this “crime), But This would be a completely wrong application of the tech.
    What the owner should have done is read HCOPL 21 Feb. 1961 “Choosing PE and Registration Personnel” LRH Says: “People who can control others are not necessarily our sanest people but are our most effective people on PE and Registration (Sales) lines.” Then he should have quit arguing with the sales person and just left him alone!

  107. I think that’s a good way to look at it! A belief system. After all, that is what Scientology made itself into when it took on the robe of religion.

    During my life, I have worked and otherwise interacted with many men and women of all backgrounds. I would say there were maybe three people I’ve known personally who fit the sociopath profile to a T. And the people declared SP by the Church are _nothing_ like the true sociopath.

    So indeed, the PTS-SP “tech” that could have been an insight that could have added value to human understanding, has not exalted itself through religion; on the contrary, the religion angle has denigrated the “tech” to the status of (yet another) mere belief system.

  108. Right on the money, Jean-François! And that line you closed with still zinged me a bit when I read it. Just as a recovering Catholic might react to the question of what he or she is doing to save the human race from eternal damnation.

    We are all very conditioned to react to symbols of authority, whether they be stop signs, flags, uniforms, or official letterhead from the IRS.

    And you’re right — those clever book covers did not make the world walk into “Ideal Orgs” the way the Eloi marched into the temples of the Moorlocks in Wells’ Time Machine novel (and movie).

    Hubbard did something a lot of writers do. He tossed an idea out in his mind that probably went like this. “Hmm. What if everything around me is a dramatization of past history. If true, then we can figure out past history by reverse engineering it from the present — and we can do that by validating every image that pops into our heads.”

    And from there, as Hubbard would have put it, he was “off on a career.”

    Remember the end of the Wizard of Oz, where all the fantastical characters turned out to be a distortion of Dorothy’s real family and farm workers?

    In the end, that may be the same with Hubbard’s work. His fantastical visions may have had pedestrian sources. Maybe Xenu was a mean uncle. The Marcab was the Naval hierarchy that did not recognize his command ability. The Psychs were the VA doctors who would not help him. And the SPs? Anyone who questioned his tall tales.

    But then again, sometimes a cigar really is a cigar! Time will tell.

  109. “What you’re believing in the moment creates your suffering or your happiness”.
    Byron Katie

  110. Elizabeth Hamre

    Thank you. I love that saying and it is a valued gift you have given .Much appreciated

  111. Elizabeth Hamre

    Ct .. I don’t get the meaning of ”triple facepalm” clue less please explain.. Human what is nothing more than a compiled considerations-agreements. but more on that if you care to hear my realities.

  112. Ha! I completely agree, Lawrence. I appreciate knowing the full picture, but I’ve had nothing but profound wins using Scientology tech personally, so I have no desire to turn my back on that. However, the henchmen running the current CofS can take a long walk off a short pier.

  113. Nice comment, Sylvia. There is also “be willing to experience anything,” and all that Ron wrote about Pan-Determinisn. One can take a narrow view of Hubbard’s writings on Cause, but I think this data is best viewed not in isolation, but in tandem with other writings.

  114. You know what you know, Elizabeth. Me too. I don’t feel any need to defend my knowingness to anyone. I’ve gotten into plenty of arguments with agnostics, aetheists and non-believers on this subject. Although there are many of this ilk who are compassionate, tolerant and respectful (and who I consider friends), there is a small percentage who are not. For some reason, they are dead-set on enforcing their viewpoints on others. To me this is as bad as the blindly devout who stridently proselytize.

  115. I fell that when citing authors, it is helpful to consider their era. James Allen was a Victorian and his Victorian views shine through.

    I have wondered about the obsessive cause. You can create a construct that will always make you ultimately responsible. Doing so ignores the advances made in understanding healing – that there are legitimate stages to move through, that acknowledging wrong was done to you does not equal being a victim (another confusion happily exploited in Scientology culture). I have found it helpful to acknowledge these stages in order to move through them. Not acknowledging them or labelling them “bad” keeps you stuck.

    What good does it do to sit there broken at the end of a life given to this “church” and say it was all me? That kind of attitude omits one of the biggest underlying principles of Scientology philosophy – that this world and universe is a co-creation. As such it should be virtually impossible to bear sole responsibility for anything without granting others responsibility, too.

    I have seen my world (my environment) change when I change. LRH must have known this when he wrote consideration and mechanics. Today the chuch is all about mechanics. How on earth did that happen?

  116. Marknr,

    What can I say?

    But call a spade a spade.

    See it as it is.



  117. None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
    – Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe.

  118. There you go. You display plain old common sense and the power of observation.

    How that happened?

    By creating a full-fledged religious belief system and hiding it from view by a smoke screen of lies and deceptive mechanisms.

  119. What about those who believe they are trapped?

  120. The Wizard of Oz connection may have more potential than I first thought:

    Wicked witch of the West: The Psychs, letting loose their hordes of flying monkeys, the Body Thetans.

    The wicked witch of the East: Communism.

    Glinda, the good witch: Hubbard’s Guardian Angel, his “Empress.”

    Dorothy: Maybe Mary Sue or one of the Commodore’s Messengers.

    Dog Toto: Whoever the #2 was, the mini-me. Eventually COB.

    The Munchkins: Kids. Kind of a nuisance.

    The forest with all its dangers: the Wog world. And the reactive mind.

    The Scarecrow, Tin Man, Dorothy, and Cowardly Lion: all seekers of something to complete themselves — except for Dorothy who just wants to go home and is in fact complete.

    Yellow Brick Road: road to riches in reality; Bridge, in terms of sales hype.

    The fields of sleeping and flowers: Auditing. Partly hypnosis; partly success stories.

    Emerald City: Inside the bubble of the church, where everyone believes in the Wizard. Higher levels. Secret areas you have to have permission to get into.

    The witch writing surrender Dorothy across the sky: Annoying government agencies.

    Leaving the Emerald City on the real technology of a balloon: Getting out of the bubble of the church. Going home. Note that the only one who goes home is the one who was complete all along — Dorothy. The ones who believed they were incomplete and needed the Wizard stay behind, with the fake parts they felt only the Wizard could give them: the Lion accepted a medal in place of courage; the Tin Man took a watch as a heart; and the Scarecrow got a diploma instead of a brain — and they all stayed behind in the dream world of Oz.

    The Wizard: LRH. Just a man after all, and all men die eventually.

  121. It’s like a really deep deep sigh.

    What I mean that you alsoo need to go to the bathroom, eat and drink., and are capable of feeling a wide array of emotions, I have witnessed that in a comment.

    Well you seem to be happy.

    So Namasté

  122. And his descend into madness

  123. That reminds me of my Yogha Teacher

  124. Elizabeth Hamre

    C.T. thank you for the explain.. yes the body do functions and I never been much for eating and water in a pure form I drink hehehe About the wide range of emotions…. well, don’t believe the words you read…. 🙂 PS request here, will you be so kind when writing to me put EH or Elizabeth so know that you are addressing this thing over here? Minden Jot! I believe that means in Hungarian the same as Namaste..

  125. “You can’t wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.”
    – Navajo Proverb

  126. Elizabeth Hamre

    AnonIdie.. Thank you.
    One seldom receive acknowledgment and one don’t need it 🙂 in reality THE COLLECTED acknowledgements DO SOLIDIFY the universe. I have had some years back a HUGE COGNITION in which I come to understand that EACH TIME-OCCASION I SAY “”I-ME-SELF” with that I keep self in, make self-solid anchor that self-back into the MEST Universe.
    I come to understand that mystery why we evaluate and invalidate: and there are plenty reasons for why we are so good, we have gained that skill at first from parents: to us words are weapons, tools when used skillfully it disarms the opponent eliminates them takes away their power, spoken words can destroy, maim, or lift up to ecstasy.
    In other words: words can make or break the persons. Our life’s is littered with examples how someone was destroyed annihilated: By spreading black PR and the opposite can be achieved of course with words too.. Your magnificence!, you are great, mighty and powerful.
    Collective agreement gives power or takes it away. Look into the past: Hitler is good example what can be done with acknowledgement.
    “Looking for power, to boost personal power in order to have more power and to become more powerful? With that one boosts the “I”=self the ego.
    When in session with the item ‘’Solidity” what is “SOLID”s, and other concepts-thoughts and agreements in connected with that item [lists] had the major cog.
    The cog, is not easy to explain, but here it is, every time one say “I”[self] with that single concept, one’s drives on anchor point into one’s own universe, establish self as the creator.
    THAT “I-self ” holds one, keeps one remain solidly in that consideration, agreement, and one becomes separated-segregated and have “LIFE” because the “I”=me’’, and by having that consideration that endorses confirms one’s existence as a singular person.
    With the concept “I” the being refers to self, that establish ones Universe in place, has location, the “I “as a singular identity has memory, considerations, agreements, track, and all those experiences of one’s self’s created universe is locked in with that concept “I”.
    You can come to your own conclusion why is the evaluation and invalidation.
    Best to you! Elizabeth.

  127. Letting go,

    They will have to grow up and realize what their true nature really is. It is far less complicated that people believe its is.

    Here is an old Indian story on how to trap a monkey:

    Once upon a time there was a monkey who was very fond of cherries. One day he saw a delicious-looking cherry, and came down from his tree to get it. But the fruit turned out to be in a clear glass bottle.

    After some experimentation, the monkey found that he could get hold of the cherry by putting his hand into the bottle by way of the neck.

    As soon as he had done so, he closed his hand over the cherry; but then he found that he could not withdraw his fist holding the cherry, because it was larger than the internal dimension of the neck.

    Now all this was deliberate, because the cherry in the bottle was a trap laid by a monkey-hunter who knew how monkeys think.

    The hunter, hearing the monkey’s whimperings, came along and the monkey tried to run away. But, because his hand was, as he thought, stuck in the bottle, he could not move fast enough to escape.

    But, as he thought, he still had hold of the cherry. The hunter picked him up. A moment later he tapped the monkey sharply on the elbow, making him suddenly relax his hold on the fruit. The monkey was free, but he was captured. The hunter had used the cherry and the bottle, but he still had them. –

  128. Fascinating. In Return to Oz (based on the book Ozma of Oz, I think), Dorothy returns to find the yellow brick road (the bridge) in ruins. Perhaps archetypical stories play out in life after all, over and over in myriad variations.

  129. Elizabeth Hamre

    By now I have come to realise nothing ever new happens on this Planet. but the old is re-invented 🙂

  130. So, is there really a spiritual aspect to reality? If so, who was LRH hunting for?

    I suppose the meaning of this story would be “let go of desire and you are free”.

    I have a question, perhaps you know the answer: if you invite the divine into your life, to whom else are you opening the door?

  131. Even if people have the true tech as many do, it is not supposed to be the actual responsiblity of public or laymen to set the planet on the right course, the Church of Scientology is supposed to have been entrusted with this task successfully since before LRH’s death, which the church has not done yet. My estimate is it will be about 300 years before the planet is able to grasp that a possible group effort to clear the planet might work! 🙂 It is not that people don’t believe in or trust the tech! People do not believe in or trust LRH and the Church of Scientology. 🙂 And altering course materials for profit is another way that they make money. When I went to Flag for training, a person could do a Dianetic Book One Checksheet (each chapter was a checksheet) for about $150.00 to $300.00 per chapter.

  132. Even the Bunker Athiësts are getting their religion on now

  133. I do a lot of home remodeling and repair. The spiritual physical metaphors abound. Especially how a place was treated and it’s current condition.

    Learning what caused a fault lends one to more effectively effect a repair and prevent the fault from occurring again.

  134. This made me laugh out loud:

    Religion is like farting: we like our own but hate everyone elses.
    Homer Simpson

  135. The most honest three minutes in television history:

  136. I had to think long and hard about it

    But you have a lot of pride,

    Your pride is that you imagine yourself above the human expierience

  137. Your self. One’s self……….

  138. Elizabeth Hamre

    CD… that is your reality. Now you have immense amount of confidence believing that from a few post you read you know my universe.

  139. I FOUND a copy of Dianetics in somebody elses discarded book trash when I was in high school. This is how I learned about LRH’s discoveries, NOT from the Church of Scientology and it did not cost me $3,600.00 to read the book and grasp the information in it. LIke the church charges for something I don’t even think they know what it is they delivered yet! 🙂

  140. That is really for you to answer to yourself. You will be the judge of that.

  141. Hi Erzsebet.
    It used to be hard to imagine humans on other worlds wearing clothes similar to ours millions of years ago until I recalled humans (like us) in other universes wearing hats like ours, hundreds of billions of years ago. I see a few things new on this world, but most of it has been done before.

  142. And the most people in prison

  143. Dianetics book checksheet, $150-300 per chapter? Good lord. You would think $1 or 2 would go to descent food tor the staff.

  144. Cat Daddy
    “Religion is like farting: we like our own but hate everyone elses.
    Homer Simpson”
    Mark. Now that is friggin hilarious. Good one Cat. There is so much truth in humor.

  145. Elizabeth Hamre

    I sure do… lived through 2nd world war, starved. been abused physically, beaten being kicked had a broken spine, a head on car collision where the left side of the brain was sloshed lost all my learned knowledge education, someone was poisoning me slowly, had 4 marriages, live in 6 different countries, had been in a revolution than was a refugee lived in refuge camps… Yes… man I sure was above experiences of the human kind.. You are a very bad judge… evaluator.. go read my blog there you find 220 basic-basic cognitions. after reading through the accomplishments than you can judge.. till than …..hold you evaluations.

  146. christianscientology

    It would appear that L.R.H. did not understand the teachings of Jesus. At the heart of his teachings is relationship. This is, as far as I know, unique to Jesus. He maintained that God was his father and that he was both “the Son of God” and “the son of man”. He said that the basic problem was men/women live in a state of alienation from their maker that the truth was just as God is Spirit, so man is spirit, and that if man realised this it would cause a complete change of mind.

    Once that had occurred because the nature of God is LOVE mans’ nature will radically change from FEAR to LOVE, this would bring about a profound change in his relationship with other people and instead of being in competition with them he would seek to co-operate with his fellow man. Through this change of viewpoint with his maker from FEAR to LOVE a shift would begin to happen in all his relationships. This in essence is the Gospel, THE GOOD NEWS. It is the restoration of the oneness with THETA and the realisation that each of us is A THETAN.

  147. Thank you. It is always worth it to ask a question.

  148. Yes, I realised as much after posting. Even before, actually, but like I said to Tom, it’s always worth it to ask a question. No matter how personal the question of spirituality might be, we do not exist in a vaccuum. Right now I’m wondering whether spirituality is madness or real. Where thoughts arise from and go to. But you are right, I have to see for myself. I am reaching a point where I see I need to ask myself, not others, for answers to those questions, otherwise I’ll always be doubting.

  149. Alonzo – of course the owner COULD have maintained a good comm cycle with the salesman, found points of agreement and maintained his OWN tone level fairly high (let’s say, at least strong interest). Using the ARC Triangle would have been a much, MUCH more successful action than MIS-applying PTS Tech or “having to be right.” Quite apart from all the insane religious dramatizations of the Church of Scientology, there ARE some EXTREMELY useful tools that one can use to improve conditions.

  150. CD,
    Quoting you: “And the most people in prison”.

    And those words beg an evaluation as to why?

    And my answer to that is:

    All people in prison are not “potential trouble sources” but actual “sources of trouble” who commit overts.

    And what is the cause of that?

    The cause of that has multiple sides to it.

    But first know that “potential trouble sources” become
    “trouble sources”.

    That begs the question: “What is the cause of PTSness”.

    The cause of PTSness is “failed mothering” and “failed fathering”, and collectively “failed parenting”.

    Each is a subject on it’s own.

    Failed parenting is caused by failing to know, live and form relationships in accordance with the laws and principles of successful relationships and marriages of the universe. That data is contained within the highest moral and ethical standards of the universe. These sum of these laws are contained in or laced in, or scattered through out the various bibles, and holy books and other sources of knowledge of comparable magnitude, of the known universe, and have to gleaned from them.

    The old and new testaments of the Christian bible have the highest, most stable ethics and moral standards, that when learned, understood and followed properly tend to the produced the highest quality marriages, families, children, people and society.

    But keep in mind that there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Some people tend to screw up the very best things and ways.

    Looking at each one separately:

    Failed fathering can be/is caused by sex out of wedlock and just general promiscuity. Or lack of a “father”. Producing “bastards”.

    (Do a search on line of what % of Americans are actual bastards.)

    And also failed fathering within a marriage.

    Failed mothering also produces PTSness.

    “Working mothers” is an oxymoron. It produces another type of “bastards”.

    There is no more important job in the world than “mother”.

    Mother is not a part time job.

    Mother is a full time job.

    Motherhood is the factory of society.

    Got a problem with “society”? Check with the country’s mothers for the cause of the problem.

    I once heard a talk show where a woman from Africa was promoting her book. Her book was about why women/mothers were responsible for all the problems in Africa. And only women/mothers can fix the problem in Africa.

    Because mothers have the most influence over the child.

    They have to learn Godly breeding practices, and Godly sexual practices.

    Mothers have to learn how to become Godly mothers and learn God’s ways of being a woman, a wife and mothering.

    Mothers have to teach their young girls who they really are and on how to be Godly spiritual beings, (get them connected to the holy spirit within them ) Godly human beings, Godly women, Godly members of society, Godly wives, and Godly mothers. (Get and read the book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr. Laura.)

    Then get and read the bible from cover to cover.

    Mothers have to teach their young boys on how to be Godly spiritual beings, (who they are and get them connected to the holy spirit within them) Godly human beings, Godly men, Godly members of society. Good Godly providers, Godly husbands, and Godly fathers.

    The cause of overts is “failed help”.

    Homosexuality is caused by perverted unGoldy sexual practices and perverted and unGoldy lifestyle practices.

    Everything has a cause.

    Find the cause, the right cause, then cure the cause the right way and the problem will be cured. If not the problem will persist.

    Society / government has emphasis on justice and punishment and incarceration.

    But the more that is done in the wrong way, the worse PTSness and crime will get.

    Society and government has to focus on assisting and supporting the home, marriage, stay at home moms, and family to solve the problems of PTSnesss, and incarcerations.

    We are are only as good as we have been bred and brought up.

    Also read Science of Survival on the role of women in society. And why and how only women and mothers are destroying civilization and how only they can prevent the destruction of civilization.


  151. Elizabeth Hamre

    Hi Mark yes it was confusing at first, but what fun we have sorting all the confusion out!

  152. Spot on Andy. The premise given is flawed and missing significant data. To act on something this thin is an excellent example of bad management.

    S/Ps are not someone with whom you argue, There are known characteristics. These and other sociopathic traits are useful in identifying such personalities.

    Data is not cause it is data. Cause by the definitions generally in use by those familiar with scientology terms is emanation point, cause point, source point. Data causes nothing, it is the result of a creation. Once sufficiently interiorized into a game, data (universe), appears to be cause and beings appear to be the effect- true enough. But it is only the result of interiorization into the game. Monopoly playing pieces, like the boot, are the effect of landing on the “Go to Jail” space but this is only true within the game itself. The boot is unaware of the players, who remain outside of the game. The players are cause. Data is data, simply a creation of theta now interiorized into a game where data is supreme and theta is nothing. A condition with a name- Man.

  153. Elizabeth Hamre

    CD.. What? you have run out of judgement? But have plenty of pride since you cant admit that judgement you have passed was not the correct one.

  154. Yep, was hard for me to imagine humans on other worlds too, until I imagined humans on other worlds. One enchanting place and time was 43.765 trillion years ago. And 42 seconds.

    It was exactly like Earth in the 1950s. And the humans were identical to modern homo sapiens. I’m sure their genome was identical. Hmm. Odd that in the intervening trillions of years, and the intervention of at least one universe collapse and Big Bang, that there was no evolution in the human DNA or form in all that time, when in mere millions — even hundreds of thousands — of years on Earth there has been quite a lot of evolution.

    But I trust in the image that popped into my brain! It can only mean one thing. Ron is right. And somehow the modern human species is the only perfect form that never needs to evolve, even across unimaginable stretches of times and multiple universes.

    By God, we _are_ made in the image of God!


  155. Hi Pip,
    I listed out the reading materials regarding Ron and his claims of anti Christ like you ask of me.
    It is in the last blog. Let me know if you found it. If not I’ll post here for you.

  156. Here are some points that are obvious and known instinctively, but are often forgotten. SP is not black and white, it is a gradient. More suppressive, a little less suppressive. We are ALL suppressive sometimes, some more than others.

    How suppressive and how often depends on which area of life we’re talking about. I knew a woman who was definitely suppressive most of the time in many areas, but she was an excellent cook. I enjoyed her food. I watched out for her at other times.

    I have been suppressive at times in some areas of life. I am tracking down the root causes of these intentions one at a time.

    The church and some individuals with a poor or incomplete understanding of how intentions and purposes get formed and fixed, often label people as suppressive and treat them like Typhoid Mary and additionally, disseminate the label, often unjustly, causing the individual harm and distress. This creates a new enemy where one did not exist before, now with real suppressive intentions toward the entity or group doing the labeling.

    This info is not new or unknown. It is obvious and common sense and common decency. It is often forgotten when our own misemotions get stirred up. I wrote an article on my discovery of one major source of harmful intentions. There are others. When viewed fully for oneself, they disappear. Constructive, helpful, good purposes do not.

    Persons acting in a suppressive manner are your brethren too. Like a life guard, defend yourself, while rendering aid.

  157. Erzsebet.
    Please read the articles on Actual Goals and GPM by Rolf Dane and Actual GPMs handling By Ken Ogger. After a little bit of looking, so, so many things about why people do things becomes so, so clear.

    This was too hot for Ron back in ’62’ but so much has been learned by others since then. With proper L&N and accurate metering and a Taoist attitude and mindful techniques, there are no problems.

    The clarity compared to current auditing is astounding. Don’t fluff this off, it is important.

    Love, Mark

  158. Monte.
    Interesting outlook on SP/PTS knowledge. Quite different from mine.

    When something is understood well, it is no longer a problem or a bother, with the added benefit that it becomes easily useful. I never believed in SP tech. I looked over it, and then DISCOVERED what played out in life. After that, I didn’t have to remember anything, I just knew it. The data that didn’t prove itself, I discarded or corrected for myself.

    I didn’t just find out what was true for me, but what was true for others as well.
    A guy harms someone, lies about it, then natters and attacks. The data surrounding that not only became true for me, but also for him. He just doesn’t know it.

    Some truths are true for all, whether they know or believe it or not. The more of these truths you understand well, the easier and more fun life gets. I’m not obsessed with or generally searching for people acting in a suppressive manner. When someone behaves in a harmful or subversive way, I take care of it, like changing a light bulb. I have rarely become the target of attack.

    Seeing purposes get triggered in people and watching them change purposes and the conflicts that ensue is really fun. Sometimes I wait a little longer than I should to intervene, but I guess I like to watch it play out sometimes. It amuses me.


  159. FO……
    You are much better at dating incidents than I. I’m impressed. But you are still storing images in your brain. Must be cumbersome.
    But I haven’t lost my ability to enjoy sarcasm. My problem is that when it comes to humor, I go more for quantity than quality. Drives my wife crazy. I’m just not as funny as I think I am, I’m told. A lot of my attempted humor is a bit time dated. People just don’t laugh at Nixon jokes the way they used to.

  160. Elizabeth Hamre

    Mark you are dear to care.. What make you believe I have fluff things off? GPM has been handled accordingly and yes they must be handled and I am pleased too that you are at it. Love ya back.

  161. The original definition of OT VIII was cause over MEST _and_ life and thought, both subjectively and objectively. So from what you are saying the current definition is, “life” and “thought” have been removed from OT VIII?

    What the hell is the point then? (LOL)

    If the “at cause” over MEST is just subjective — mental image pictures — what the hell is the point there?

    And if it is “at cause” over MEST objectively — other people can witness the incredible power, then I’m from the “show me” state. Screw all the BS about it would overwhelm people not ready to see it.

    What is really going on is the emperor has no clothes, and having none, he diverts attention from his corpulent nakedness to say you cannot dare see my clothes, because it would be “out gradient for you.”

    And that’s my opinion — from someone who has seen and experienced and done things that convince me that there is way more to this existence than meets the eye.

    So put one OT out there who can be at cause over MEST. And say mock up a persistent rose that anyone can see, touch, and feel. And can do it at will. And can as-is it at will.

    By God if just one supposed OT could do that, you would fill up the Idle Morgues overnight! Wouldn’t that be the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics?”

    But alas, it is true: the emperor has no clothes.

  162. What is true for you Is true for you.

    On a more serious note.

    I don’t know yet, I am just bouching some comments of of you, so I can see what reactions come back.

  163. I remember this discussion. different times, different values.

  164. I acknowledge your expieriences, Maybe I am just lucky I did not have to expierience what you have in this lifetime.

    And we are at two different periods of life. Who knows will my views change when I get older.

    Blessed be

  165. CD>
    These principles cannot be really classified as arbitrary values. They are based on laws of ethics and cause and effect and workability.

    The value of any datum is only determined by how well it works.

    The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

    That is the only test for value or workability.

    It is not determined by ” arbitrary values”, or opinions, or beliefs. They are laws of this universe.

    Violation of these laws will sooner or later cause detrimental effects.

    The effects may even take several generations to show up.

    This is similar to what Hubbard said in; I think it was Dianetics 55, that (something to the effect) abuse of the body for vain sexual gratification, will cause dire consequences in a matter of time.

    I cannot recall the exact wording, but I do remember the context and idea.

    That datum is in alignment with other sources.


  166. Elizabeth Hamre

    CD… Thank You I am blessed because had these experiences since I consider every one as something I can lean from.: therefor a gift. Every one of these experiences were taken apart in sessions and confronted. thousands of cognitions -realizations were the fruit of my labor. So how blessed I am? 🙂

  167. Elizabeth Hamre

    OK. you want to bounce some ideas-agreements load your gun and aim toward the west coast of BC. and if everything would be the TRUTH FOR ME than I never ever would have gone into sessions. I was told by some one who had auditing and said ” you know it all” that truly surprised me since again if I would know it all I would not be able to have sessions. CD the motivator I have is that I am wrong and the only truth I know what is which are the cognitions. So my dear any time, now since we have established communication you can reply with your reality and shoot down mine.. . . My 4th husband was great speaker and debater. and he has thought me how to debate… given me the pointers.. it boils down to: have your facts ready. 🙂

  168. Elizabeth Hamre

    Mark… I been thinking about the ”Don’t fluff this off”. Hehehe.. it is impossible to fluff -mass up anything in session. When is session one confronts that so called PAST [ that past is in now] one do not GO BACK IN TIME but one has the ability to re-create the CONCEPT CONTENTs in session. And what one sees -experiences is in the moment of the creation in the NOW. Mass up ones case is a belief a consideration same as any other one has.

  169. My father alsoo cooks, vacuums and manages the dishwasher

  170. Well Elizabeth. The fact I am stressing is that you are a Human being like I am and that you live under the same conditions that are derived from the fact that you are a human being.

  171. christianscientology

    Yes Brian have now replied, it took me a while to digest the material!

  172. “Actions are senior to words and words are seniot to writing”

    -Cat Daddy

    (Cornelius Anthonius Martens)

  173. Dr. Frankl’s interview was so amazing.

    Thanks for posting it.


  174. Elizabeth Hamre

    CD… the body is: what it is considered human body and it is a anchor but I am not that body. Humans believe that they are the body: were conceived than were born – live and will die and that is the end. I was not born I do not live but have experiences and will not die since that too: parting from the body-letting go is only a experience and there is a huge difference how a human or one who know is Infinite view the experiences of the NOW. Humans believe in past and in the future…in continuum.. I don’t.

  175. Elizabeth Hamre

    CD Thank you… good video, but those are his view his truth and not mind. going into agreement do not mean that reality apply to everyone.

  176. Elizabeth Hamre

    Fine by me.

  177. christianscientology

    Ron has always emphasised the importance of differentiating between an SP and someone who is P.T.S., and has said it is fatal not to know and recognise the difference.

  178. Thanks Pip.
    When you step back 3 feet and watch people interact, it can be tragically humorous at times. But then I see that letting people crumble in front of me is cruel, so I step in. Fortunately, the more often I see aberration in it’s true form, the less I need to act on it. More and more often, it dissolves upon recognition.

  179. christianscientology

    Thanks Mark, there is only one way of truly helping another and that’s through UNDERSTANDING. Your remark reminds me of HO’OPONOPONO- Dr Hew Len (he healed the criminally insane in 4 years!)


  180. Thanks for posting the video with Dr. Hew Lin.

    I have been learning to use it for about 10 yrs now and have had great success. But it is a constant learning and doing process. Like Hew said, every body’s Ho Oponopono process is different. You have to find your own. And that is the first thing I learned, which took me about 6 yrs to learn. Only then was I able to only begin to make it work.

    I used it with great success for a few yrs than for some reason dropped it and went on to other things.

    Some which were helpful and others which were not so helpful. But doing the things which do not work, teach you how to use, what does work, better. To be a master of it, you have to know all sides of the subject. We learn a lot more from mistakes and failures, and adversity, than successes.

    I actually spent a good part of last night contemplating and deliberating and asking myself, on why my progress has pretty much ground to a halt.

    I woke up this morning and opened my email and watched the video.

    I know now that that I have to get back to using my version of Ho Oponopono.

    Thanks again for posting it.


  181. I don’t think that is really the case with most human beings. Being a body onley that is. It’s in the language really.

    I am a “mens” in dutch and that is derived from the word mens

    “This article is about the figure in Roman mythology. For the commune in France, see Mens, Isère.

    In Roman mythology, Mens, also known as Bona Mens or Mens Bona (Latin for “Good Mind”), was the personification of thought, consciousness and the mind, and also of “right-thinking”. Her festival was celebrated on June 8.[1][2] A temple on the Capitoline Hill in Rome was vowed to Mens in 217 BC on advice from the Sibylline Books, and was dedicated in 215 BC.

    The Latin word mens expresses the idea of “mind” and is the origin of English words like mental and dementia. The gifted-only organization Mensa International was originally to be named mens in the sense of “mind”, but took instead the name Mensa (Latin: “table”) to avoid ambiguity with “men’s” in English and “mens” in other languages.”

  182. Elizabeth Hamre

    Thank you CD… realities are like snowflakes all look different when examined yet they are all called snowflakes. When they melt they are not what they meant to be. Realities too vanish, same as words when not listened to, and value -importance is in the eyes .in the mind of the believer. Juggling with realities deciding which is better is nothing more than choosing between two illusions.

  183. christianscientology

    Thanks for the validation Dio. I am glad you found my post useful. It is so important to remember we do love each other however much appearances may try to dictate otherwise.


  184. Pip,

    Disagreement does not mean “I do not love you”.

    Disagreement for the right reasons is good.

    Intelligent people discuss to seek higher understanding and tend to go up the tone scale.

    Idiots, fools, the vulgar, swine, prostitutes, rogues argue to destroy and go down the tone scale.


    There are two ways of establishing a reputation,
    the first is to be respected by honest and noble men,
    The second is to be condemned by rogues.

    It is however best to secure the first, as it is always accompanied by the latter.

  185. Alanzo, I agree completely.
    Obsessive causation example 1: Daughter of an OT 7 who’s had very little auditing but has been evaluated for for years is certain she caused hurricane Katrina to decimate her beachfront home. REALLY?!?! Think about this a bit.
    Example 2: OT goes in session and runs something to do with Haiti and how they hate the situation there, that horrible earthquake happens and this person absolutely feels they caused it. REALLY?!?! Think about this a bit.

  186. Excellent post…

  187. “Homosexuality is caused by perverted unGoldy sexual practices and perverted and unGoldy lifestyle practices.”

    Tell that to Quentin Hubbard,……….

  188. CD,
    1. Quentin: Yes, he was the product of unGoldy sexual and lifestyle practices.

    But you can tell him that. If you have a comm line to him.

    2. Regarding Richard Dawkins, I do not have much time for him. Even when he is right he is right for the wrong reasons.

    He is stupidity disguising as intelligence.


  189. christianscientology

    Hi Dio

    I would agree disagreement does not mean “I do not love you”. The fact is LOVE and DISAGREEMENT have nothing in common, that is why LRH relegated the word LOVE to the waste paper basket. THERE IS NO LOVE IN SCIENTOLOY THERE NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE.
    Love can never be in a technology, it can only be in a PERSON. The person is LOVE, whether he/she agrees or disagrees is a matter of VIEWPOINT. THE PERSON IS NOT THE VIEWPOINT.


  190. Pip,

    You are right that there is no love in scn. That is one reason why I say that scn is missing the Jesus and bible factors. It might have been even planned that way. That decision was left up to the wise and intelligent individual.
    The clues were written on the walls.


  191. 1. Is there a freezone scientologist 2d dating website?

    2. If there is, please post the link.

    3. If not, the second option I suggest, is for all single Christian Scientologists to sign up on Christian Mingles as a Christian Scientologist. With Key word as Christian Scientologist.

    4. If anyone has any other or better suggestions or ideas please post here.



  192. christianscientology

    Hi Dio

    Love is an ABSOLUTE and Scientology states “Absolutes are unobtainable” although Marildi reminded me apparently he added IN THIS UNIVERSE. But really that makes no difference because if God is absolute which he is, then nothing is too difficult for him. So if he decides that the absolute should incarnate into this universe there is nothing stopping him, and the bible says that is exactly what he did 2000 years ago. One of the best known verses in the bible is John 3:16 which says “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”.

    ETERNAL LIFE is a life without beginning or end, which is outside of TIME itself, which is what THETA IS.


  193. christianscientology

    Hi Dio

    Count me in, I’m sure the wife won’t mind, her raisen de’tre is “anything for a quiet life”


    P.S. There is no gap between Christian and Scientology – it’s ChristianScientology

  194. Your in Pip,


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