Here is a passage from the Tao that appears at a critical juncture in my in-progress book. I have also referred to it in previous posts.
Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises all by itself?
Review where your important cognitions, realizations, or problem solutions come from. Do you create them? Or do you let go sufficiently so that you may perceive them as they arrive all on their own? Are you the author of something brand new to the universe? Or do you open yourself up to see something that was already there? Do the brilliant ideas come when you extrovert sufficiently from self and self- importance to make way for them? Or do they come when you are undisturbed – or encouraged – to gather your true master-of-the-universe bearing sufficient to birth another masterpiece?
Thank you. As far as the cognitions and realizations I may have posed a question or have pondered about something. Then, without rush, nor force the answers do flow, I allow them to arrive and smile at them.
I could state that I am the author to new things in the Universe as my feelings, sensations, ideas, conclusions, searches are totally new in my universe and I share them as I see fit and enjoy doing so.
When extroverted from self and self-importance ideas do flow and I grasp with joy their concept; many times I do express gratitude for life, the natural flow of it and I am grateful for what I live, experience and create.
I am aware that there are many new things to learn, look for, analyze, but specially to create. I believe is up to oneself, together with a natural flow of life itself to do so.
Trivial matters are usually resolved quickly. More difficult matters are often mulled over and if no resolution, further mulling over later on occurs. Maybe over several days. Then often a resolution comes . A bit like sleeping on a problem. It may seem like the right action arises by itself, but it wouldn’t happen without the examining of the situation from as many angles or perspectives as needed. Its like a learning process.
For me the real question is “When you make a postulate is that postulate in the future creating present time or is it in present time creating the future?” LRH knew the answer to that. Knowhere that I know of has that answer ever been stated or answered correctly by anyone else.
We all make the mistake of spending to much energy on our creations. When we do that we are trying to parallel the energy we have observed being used in the physically universe. In the physical universe it takes a lot of energy to do a lot of work so we try to replicate it and often we succeed but when something seems to come to us without much effort that is no surprise either since it didn’t really take a lot of effort to begin with.
Thinking hard on your creations isn’t necessary. Any auditor has seen this. We all know that more often than not the simplest, lightest postulates work the hardest and last the longest. They are seemingly hidden from view partially because they are so light. The really heavy ones are obvious and easy to communicate with.
A very insightful and thought provoking post. I believe it is both. We must be able and will to observe and perceive. When the water clears we have an abundance of new insights to experience. If we learn from that then we can receive even more in the future as our sphere of “clear water” encompasses more of our world.
The answers are already there. The conditions needed to make use of them is both sides. The observer – and the wisdom and intuition that has as yet been unobserved. With consciousness and personal integrity come the understanding that our ideas and thoughts are never fully alone. Born of observation, insight and perception – molded by our current needs and decisions and ah-ha moments – and then….
Our progress toward living in the moment, aware of and at ease in the world of spirit and consciousness, will only happen at a rate we are able to absorb and process. Allow perception to really sink in and the answer will be there. False ideas, a rigid fundamentalist viewpoint, a closed mind are all barriers to allow the mud to clear and the water to become a window to the universe.
I can be a cause point for some of my realizations – and so many times the cause point is what comes through at the moments of mud clearing. Both sides are still my personal conscious experience of that moment. That is the ebb and flow of life. I believe that is what we do. Most of us are still learning how to do this more often and more efficiently. I am just loving the journey, the further awakening, the what is in the next package to be perceived and opened. And another fine Sunday morning starts with more to ponder and seek. Thanks.
No I do not.
I do the things I have to do in order to survive. In my life there is (almost) nothing I get for free.
Sometimes I am lucky to get a little bit something for free (without hard work). But only enough to dream a dream of getting somewhere. To think I could have made a breakthrough. To have a easier life. After I had that hope the next time I try to accomplish something with not so much effort I utterly fail.
From a viewpoint of being a body there is nothing wrong with this. But from the viewpoint of a living being this is heartbreaking. As this is a never ending story since aeons.
I love the quotes from the Tao. Thank you, Marty, for reminding me of them. It is amazing to me that you have any time to be unmoving and wait for the mug to settle.
I disturb the mud with a question. Then I sit back and wait for the answer to arise.
Sometimes I keep thinking, thinking, thinking. The mud never settles then until I exhaust myself.
Letting the mud settle is a discipline, I feel. As is acting on the answer that arises.
Oh – I get the sense that this causation by “allowing” is antithetical to the scientology causation by “strong-arming”.
I develop software. I have on hundreds of occasions had a problem I needed to solve. I go to a developer forum of some kind and I post a description of my problem and ask for help. Every single time I have posted a thorough description of the problem I have “realized” the solution within minutes before getting any response from others on the forum. This is such a regular outcome that I know I just need to give a thorough description.
But there is one more step after figuring out the thorough description. I had thought it was the communication of that description that was the “trigger” but now I don’t think so. I think it might just be that having posted the description I then let go of the problem because I know a solution will be forthcoming.
I haven’t got this fully worked out yet but am very interested in this subject.
Is it the letting go or is it the confidence (faith?) that I will get an answer?
It is true that the answer rarely, if ever, comes from the forum I post to because it comes to me before anyone on the forum has had a chance to answer my question.
Me likes 🙂
I used to think that until you ‘do something about it a problem will remain or grow larger’. It is the opposite. I think in apathy you surrender to the problem –passively considering it into existence, even if you deny it. In 40 you trust in your self –but not your ego self, your ‘everything’ self.
Good one Marty. I love the Tao in general, but this is particularly applicable to X Scientologists in my view. Unreactive discipline, patience takes a conscious effort, but far more rewarding. Its actually a creative effort to my mind.
x members of CO$ I should clarify
“Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises all by itself?”
One of the best quotes EVER.
“Review where your important cognitions, realizations, or problem solutions come from. Do you create them? Or do you let go sufficiently so that you may perceive them as they arrive all on their own? Are you the author of something brand new to the universe? Or do you open yourself up to see something that was already there?”
Wow. Those question get to the heart of the matter.
Yes, right there is where I’ve parted with Scientology from the beginning. All of my insights and deepest experiences where always accompanied by the feeling of coming to an already existing reality.
Part of the feeling of wonder and bliss, was knowing that I just came up to something that was universal, it was always there, waiting to be discovered anew by anyone.
To really know that these experiences are not given to us, but that they are part of our intrinsic nature is the difference between being free to explore and being entrapped by Scientology.
It is very subtle, but I cannot think of anything more pernicious than the delusion by implication, that we all have been somehow “sourced” by Hubbard or Scientology.
I make mud pies 🙂
I’ve always known that when I had a question to ask, the answer will come.
When the student is ready the teacher will come sort of thing. That’s a known phenomena of life. I even write mine down sometimes. My trouble comes in periods of stagnation where I don’t ask questions.
I believe the answers are there already. I’m always happy I ask and leave myself open for the answers.
Well, you have a very good sense.
The right answer always comes to me when I choose not to think.
I believe that each action happens in the new unit of time… Never been experienced before and the same never will be experienced again. I believe that each action is unique in the Universe since they were created IN THE NOW..
About being the Author of the creation experienced in the moment?
Again I believe that I am not a singular being, not a person but exist in coexistence with those who do not consider identity: being somebody is needed or wanted in order to create-experience.. and since singularity do not exist because of that fact alone being importance or having value is not needed-required.
But are the created experiences master pieces?…well that depends on the viewers reality, but again I believe that each moment the “EXPERIENCED IS PEFRECT IN EVERY WAYS” therefore one can say that they are masterpieces.. magical moments.
Having patience can dissolve a lot of effort counter effort. It is a skill that can be practiced and learned, like TR-0.
Yes to each. I believe in focus and flow, and also in letting the silt settle. Sometimes I feel the guiding Hand of God, and sometimes I feel I am a god. I am very good at what I do, and I learned to let others be very good at what they do. I learned that perfection is impossible, and to not fall in love with solutions. And also to recognize when there is no solution – and when there’s no problem.
S…W.. you bet… thinking bit is the figure-figure thing.. not original but the forced on mixed bag of beliefs what ever they may be to the Infinite.. Knowingness just to know is original to You as on INFINITE! Some calls that “”knowingness” intuition.
This is a good exercise.
I am a professional creator of new products and I work very hard and very diligently at them but the really good, the really masterful, the really genus new products never seem to come from my hard work or my diligence. Instead they just arrive with no effort or thought at all.
When I show these types of “genus” new products to educated engineers in the same field, they invariably say, “it’s so simple, why didn’t I think of that!” I similarly admonish myself with “why didn’t I think of this earlier.” But the truth is, I never did “think” of it in the first place. It just arrived.
So, this is a good exercise.
Mark P.. hi… what made you believe that perfection is not possible? every creation is perfect till it is judged.. my reality.
Robert A.. knowing do not require thinking.. thinking is a action.. figure-figure comparing stored data and hopping that the one is chooses to fallow to built on from the many is the right choice; that is guessing assuming.. but Knowing. that JUST IS– no thinking required . 🙂
This seems similar to the experience I posted about a few posts above.
By describing the problem.
I never post about such to forums. I’m quite determined to
solve such situations my way and by myself, and they are personal
and can’t be resolved by a technical knowledge of programming or whatever.
I usually take longer for resolution. Possibly posting to forums[others]
ups ones necessity level
Marty you have been making some great posts that get to the heart of things.
Now we have come full circle to the very earliest days of psychoanalysis, not through the person of Freud, but that of Georg Groddeck, whom Freud greatly admired. Groddeck wrote The Book of the ‘It’, among others.
From an article about Groddeck:
“Before learning about psychoanalysis, he had come to the conclusion that men may believe they are living their own lives, but the are actually “lived” by an unconscious “something,” a great force, the mystery of life, called “Gottnature” by Goethe. Because it was ineffable – in fact a fiction, he said, merely a way of thinking about man – Groddeck found it convenient to borrow the term “It” from Nietzsche. Consciousness, the ego, the self, physical illness, neurotic symptoms, and the great or vile works of man were basically manifestations of the It. The It was protean, could divide up, work one portion against others, experiment, build up, be playful, be destructive – finally destructive unto death.
The task for the physician in all illnesses (for Groddeck did not believe in the separation of the organic from the mental) was to gain access by any means to the patient’s It, to influence it in its ways. He himself sought access through the use of diet and massage, and in the process of interpreting symbol, transference, and resistance. But the actual process of cure remained, as he admitted over and over, unknown.”
I see Groddeck as being to psychoanalysis, as The Oracle is to Scientology…. 🙂
Marly, as I have told you before, many of the artwork on your blog are out of this world. This person holding the sun is unbelievable. 🙂 And, to respond to your post, I am the author of new things to the universe. 🙂
Marty, did you perhaps have a ‘presentiment’ of this study’s release?
Funny you should respond to me Terril. I’ve been trying to get in touch with you. The link on your name does not go to a real site. Is there a way I can get a message to you?
And, did I already know this genus solution already? Did I just wait for the water to clear while I busied myself with poking and pushing the subject around? That is the question of the ages: Did I hold the answer behind my back so I could have a game to play? I think so.
That made me smile… Thank you.
Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises all by itself?
This is soooooooooooo much easier said than done. No, I do not. But I’m working on it…
Maybe the skill of TR 0 – in life – is in fact a way to practice the skill of “patience,” and to arrive at a knowingness. Maybe even a universal knowingness.
Or it might be OT TR-0 that would do it. Periods of simply being there.
How many times does the right action in your life arise ALL BY ITSELF? You can sit on a couch and wait the rest of your freaking life and think you’re living.
Middle ground. I neither am the sole source of my cognitions (though I take a great deal of responsibility and pleasure in them), nor am I just a vessel for other forces to “drop” cognitions and life decisions in my lap as I wait “patiently.
I had a huge cog a couple of weeks ago from something that Marty pointed out (I’m paraphrasing here o what it meant to me personally) – something about the “flip side” or the duality of most things in life that we need to be willing to experience (as they will almost certainly occur in our life naturally) and if you can believe this, folks, I gave up a lot of my upset/bitterness (not all – ha) over some of what I’d considered betrayals in my life or even the current sit of my body breaking down slowly as I move into my mid 60s. It was Marty’s quote that changed a major point of how I viewed life. Solely created by me? …… no ….. but I WAS the decision point of deciding to read the blog and to then CONSIDER how the point might apply to me.
I find it a positive factor in life to move from effect to cause in any area that I want to experience. I don’t find it a positive to just wait and be patient for the benevolent universe to do its thing (this is how it appears to ME – and yes, folks, we do NOT have to live the SAME freaking life by the SAME rules or attitudes …. there is most definitely a countless diversity in human experience)
After having sought the truth for many life times it has occurred to me that I have it within my heart!
I have joined many religions seeking truth and knowledge of the soul.
The point at which I choose to distance myself is when it has become a status symbol and identification mark for who I am. When one’s status becomes more important than truth and integrity, I bow out.
I stand alone in my truth I I will not be cheated from what truthfully belongs to me: my wisdom and my freedom.
Dear Marty and Mosy!
Sorry to be off topic, but “Scientologists at War” just aired on national television the other night, and you both became world famous in Denmark! WOW! Pretty shocking display of Scientology´s methods!
Scary indeed! – Now WHO wants to join???
Of course , when everything goes well and your ‘sky’ is blue – then it s easy to express gratitude to life. – I don’t care about patience, i care only about just living life(without all the believe’s-bullshit cult’s and tribalism)!
Schorsch, thank you sharing the truth of how it can be for some of us living beings. You are not alone. And yet, respectfully, you are.
May there be at least a few seconds in a day where you can find yourself as a being who is simply breathing in and breathing out. There can be, in such few moments, a deep rest. Respectfully, may you have this.
All these questions posed are questions of the seeker. As I read them I am reminded of a particular passage in the book, Siddhartha…
“When someone is searching,” said Siddhartha, “then it might easily
happen that the only thing his eyes still see is that what he searches
for, that he is unable to find anything, to let anything enter his mind,
because he always thinks of nothing but the object of his search,
because he has a goal, because he is obsessed by the goal. Searching
means: having a goal. But finding means: being free, being open, having
no goal. You, oh venerable one, are perhaps indeed a searcher, because,
striving for your goal, there are many things you don’t see, which are
directly in front of your eyes.”
It is the person i.e., the mind/thought construct that is the seeker. It is the seeker that keeps the ‘mud’ stirred up and obscures the eternal silence; the eternal emptiness, which is No Thing and Every Thing simultaneously. It’s only when the seeker (the person) disappears that the ‘water’ clears.
A quote from T.S. Eliot reads: “We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of our exploring will be to arrive where we began and know the place for the very first time”. Ironically, though, it is only when we cease exploring that we KNOW.
The notion that there is an identity(s) that is incomplete and need to seek, find, learn, become, obtain, arrive, get, and the seemingly infinite problems that arise as a result, originates from the ego thought system in its attempt at self-preservation. There is no path to find or travel or ‘place’ to arrive at because there never was a departure. The eternal all knowing beingness had never not been the eternal all knowing beingness.
Of course, everything I have just written, indeed, everything that I seem to extend from this identity cannot, in a perception existence, be anything other than an interpretation of my perception.
My mail addy is firstname.lastname@example.org
Robert. A.. you bet you have known! 🙂 and you know the reason for it too… Fun we are having!:)
Robert — “Did I hold the answer behind my back so I could have a game to play?”
Yet another piece of Hubbard that has always been a trigger for me. He likens life to a game. OK. Not wrong and certainly very “insouciant” — again not wrong. But how about the people whose lives are RUINED by this game and too old to “start over.” or unable to recover from the loss of a child/etc
Or the men (yes, primarily men but not always) who have missed the joy of seeing their children grow because while playing this game — they worked 24/7 at the office.
Or marriages ruined because of this “game”
Or those who missed on love and forming ADULT relationships (not the hey I’m done – break up type) because of this “game” of Hubbard’s.
KSW drove me nutty. The playing of a game — some are pieces, some are pawns, some are broken … made me sad and angry.
I know for SURE several are going to come “at me” with this comment to your comment. I am going to write down their names so I can be RIGHT when I “win” this game of who will respond.
I don’t believe there are many of us who are sufficiently awake/healed/ who post on this blog.
Marty shares his own ideas and his own journey. IMHO the rest of us are 1) playing catch up 2) hope to find the answers to our own angst still stirred up by a cult
For a while now I’ve held that scientology “games” lack a fundamental ingredient: fun.
If it ever was the case, it has probably been a long time since games were played in that group for the sheer fun of it and no other reason.
From my perspective, anyway.
Considering all that has been lost or was never had because of this game has been heartbreaking for me. Now I am trying to see what is right with my life, and how to have well-being.
I can’t say why others are here. I’m here because Marty and the interaction with you guys on this blog give me spiritual nourishment, inspiration and curiosity, and I find that healing. There is something in me that wants answers, even if the questions are not all fully formulated yet.
Well spoken —
Games as children were fun … and some as adults.
I too find the interaction very nourishing spiritually. I’ve read books I never would have been directed to as a result of Marty’s blog …
And my comment to Robert was my no means intended as being against Robert — just pointing out yet another piece of the Ron puzzle that always went in sideways for me.
I read this today : Maya Angelou:
“People will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”
Words to live by. I’m working on it day by day.
Best to you … letting go
Here are some of my observations on this subject.
I have noticed that often researchers and inventors come up with ground breaking solutions or insights around the same time, even though they are not communicating by conventional means with each other, and are often scattered around the globe. This has led me to consider that there is some kind of “over-mind” or common consciousness. Access to this consciousness seems to be “natural”, as apposed to “bidden”. It seems to happen in times when the mind is more quiet, and the consciousness more open, as the mud settles perhaps.
But here is a different approach.
In some forms of auditing one is following a line of force or data. It is usually quite an active approach to “research”. It definitely stirs up the “mud”. The thing that is curious is that ones attention is being focused on specific memories, as memories, for their content, but one is never asked what one thinks about these memories. The memories all have some commonality that ties them together, and the subject goes about relating them in detail. Then, at some point, “out of the blue”, the subject has a flash of insight, or cognition. An “answer” comes to the subject, for a question that was never asked by the auditor. I assume however, that at some level, the subject already had a request in for the answer that he got.
I think that one tends to find what he is looking for, but not necessarily in the place he thinks it will be found. There are potentially lots of answers around us at any given point, but one will not “find” them unless he is looking for them.
Active looking or passive awareness can both be fruitful.
There is something that L.Ron Hubbard said that I think could apply here.
It goes like this…
” If what you are doing isn’t working, do the opposite.”
If passive awareness is not working, stir up the mud a little.
If stirring up the mud constantly is not working, relax, let it settle a bit and see what is revealed.
… Or, perhaps just enjoy making some mud pies. (wink to palehorse)
You are precious Windhorse: “I am going to write down their names so I can be RIGHT when I “win” this game of who will respond.” I hope you won.. certainly shows your lovely sense of humor.
Anyway, I agree with what you say. I am still waking up from KSW. Not only was KSW an excellent cult creating policy letter, it was on every god dam course. Least you forget, it was pounded into you over and over and over….the KSW army of thought stopping robots. Arrrrugg…
Some additional thoughts…
If one wants something or is looking for something, like solutions, answers, memories, etc., by the nature of his looking he has set up a pair of opposing postulates.
“I want it”, as a postulate, contains, along side it, the postulate “I don’t have it.” This is the anatomy of a problem. Unresolved problems tend to inhibit change. They fixate attention.
In a wholly spiritual world the resolution to the problem is to simply let go of the problem… to cease postulating it. This is perhaps “letting the mud settle”. It opens the way for change… and brand new postulates.
But in a mechanical world one tends to be unwilling to “let it go” until he has the MEST universe’s permission to do so. Using “logic” or “reason” or MEST itself, one tends to try to alter the “mud” in such a way as to “prove” to himself that “it is no longer necessary to want it”, because “he now has it.” He has created a new postulate. Again he has made it possible to change, but he has also solidified his dependence on MEST.
The more he depends on MEST, the slower and more cumbersome his existence becomes. Eventually his intuition and his “sparkle of creation” are crushed under the sheer weight of it.
I’d say ideally one evaluates, decides and then takes action. But in order to evaluate, one needs to be able to look – i.e. be aware of that which one is going to evaluate… quite obviously. If someone becomes too overwhelmed, confused or unable to perceive and evaluate clearly then obviously it becomes difficult to make decisions with respect to a course of action (at which point one most easily follows a course of action dictated by someone or something else – ok, separate subject).
These factors can be looked at one by one. For example, what affects AWARENESS? I’d say awareness most directly has to do with one’s “energy level.” Just thinking about it in regular terms – when you are fatigued and hungry then your awareness begins to “dull” and evaluation becomes more difficult. All you can think of during that time is how to get more rest, more food – i.e. more energy. There is even an expression along the line of being “too tired to think.”
In theory and in my person experience one can get “connected” to an additional source of “energy” where your “energy level” gets such a boost that you suddenly become overwhelmed with knowingness and understanding, ideas for action… etc. I experienced it more than once when meditating on NATURE. When you observe and try to get connected with nature long enough, you have this realization that you are not just a FORM; there is some “universal energy source” within all of life including you… and once you get connected to that “energy source”… – it really has to be experienced to be understood. The word I like for this experience is Japanese SATORI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori
But apart from a rather extraordinary experience simply more energy leads to greater level of awareness including of your own “internal” reality (thoughts, memories… etc). Once you have plenty of awareness, then you can evaluate that which you become aware of. So then what affects EVALUATION? The one thing I can think of right off the bat is one’s level of education, one’s method of thinking – how does one interpret what one is seeing. And these two things are interconnected too: Awareness and Evaluation. For example, I read about the experience of “enlightenment” way before I actually had the experience. Having read about it is what motivated me to seek it out. When I had the actual experience, I was able to evaluate it through the “education” I had on the subject which I have to say at the time of my first experience was definitely not enough – this in turn motivated me to seek out more education so that better evaluation can take place.
Anyway, to get back to Marty’s (or Tao’s) original question:
Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises all by itself?
I think an action can “arise,” but I still would argue that it would “arise” from some pool of knowingness, a pool of accumulated experience/data and evaluations. There is a lot of knowledge that is stored beneath the surface awareness. It may be stored or may be “accessed” through connection to some greater “source” – whatever the case may be, some form of knowingness precedes ideas for action. Like you are sitting around and then some knowingness enters your mind, and you go: “Oh. I KNOW what to do!” and jump into some form of action. So in this case I would argue that what truly arises is some “knowingness” and out of that knowingness come ideas for action.
Not to make it too long, but I think a simpler example could be seen by looking at this process within some professional field. For example, someone could get education with respect to financial matters – like being able to analyze and understand financial statements for example. Someone like that can become AWARE of some financial position of a company in terms of some figures and then EVALUATE that information through education one has accumulated and so arrive at some reasoned course of ACTION with respect to that information. If one did not have the education, one would not be able to effectively evaluate the figures that he became aware of. If one could evaluate but did not have access to the right data (i.e. no awareness of that which to evaluate) then obviously coming up with a good course of action would be difficult.
Great description of the ‘problem-solution process’.
I often apply this if some problem does not solve instantly.
A lot seems to have to do with REALLY focusing on what the problem ACTUALLY is and that already is well on the way to an as-isness though
sometimes is not quite enough.
Having already ‘solved’ some problems that way there IS certainty that it can do so again.
I am still debating on the point of how far I need to send this out.
Often, as in looking over the daily Battleplan in the morning I think of wanting to get in contact with person ‘X’ and then -as if by some magic-person ‘X’ calls by him or herself. Syncronicity at work.
Other times it seems enough of a distance to get the process of focusing on what the problem actually is on a piece of paper in front of me and then the solution leaps out.
When that does not lead to a solution it is time to submit it to the universe at large, even using some sort of MEST communication lines. In any case,
some distance seems to be required as per the comunication formula so it handles the ‘can’t see the forest for the trees’ situation.
In any case it appears to be a matter of ‘correct frequency’.
It also helps to BE what is being looked for.
The bottom line seems to be “if you don’t ask, you don’t receive’.
Never forget to pat yourself on the shoulder for a game created that is good OR bad…
Another good one, Marty! ” Are you the author of something brand new to the universe?” This can be kind of a tricky question as we’re sort of taught to believe this is VERY difficult. However, as Steve Jobs pointed out….”Look around your room: EVERY thing in it was created by someone. Keep looking: ‘stay foolish, stay hungry” was one of his quotes I love. Glad you’re on this path 🙂 Tory/Magoo
“If one did not have the education, one would not be able to effectively evaluate the figures that he became aware of.”
In which case, the right answer that would pop up would be ‘Get the right education’.
Letting the mud settle will often bring to me the realization of where to next stir the mud. When to stop and when to go comes more easily with enlightenment. It’s not all just sitting in a cave.
Thanks Eric, good post.
Eric, you wrote…”In a wholly spiritual world the resolution to the problem is to simply let go of the problem…” I suspect that in a wholly spiritual ‘world’ (a world that this identity cannot begin to conceive) concepts, including concepts that are interpreted as problems, are nonexistent. Problems, though, are a key ingredient to the ‘world’ of perception; a mechanical world seemingly composed of opposites, levels, judgments, concepts, individuals, objects…a world made and perpetuated by mind/ thought.
Anything and everything in a mechanical world is terrified of anything spiritual as spiritual is death to the mechanical. Therefore, mind/thought protects its imaginary existence by making spirituality a problem i.e., making spirituality seem to be something that needs to be answered e.g., needs to be searched for, discovered, attained, obtained, recovered, developed, learned and so on. Where does mind/thought say the answers can be found? In the world it made, of course. Thus, it keeps the water continually muddy even when it seems to be clear (mind/thought controls both sides of duality).
Right… you would hope so lol. Obviously, this subject could and probably should be extended. There are many good concepts in Scientology that helped me to evaluate more clearly… and yet some others that took me “off the path” in a different direction… But then again evaluating things that didn’t work or that worked to produce opposite from the desired results is also part of the process of figuring out how things work… ok, another big subject.
A practical example – we were totally stuck on a firmware point and called in a consultant. He was an old guy who’d been around the block a few times – You know how it is when there is a problem at Gold, your senior comes around to beat you up over it, then his senior comes around, then some more senior exec, pretty soon cards are being pulled, conditions are flying, noise and confusion are in the air. It all helps you think hard and deeply about the problem and seek a solution by placid contemplation (NOT!). Well our crusty old expert kind of smiled and nodded at all the frantic suggestions, answered the urgent questions, sat back once in a while and seemed to think a bit. Finally I asked if he needed a little space away from us to study over things. He said no, when the answer comes it will come. Let them go on asking questions. I was very surprised to hear that, whenever I am stuck I tend to just beat myself over the head and agonize over it. However, since then I have come to see that he was right – the answer does not always come by effort unless it is a simple answer that just needs some well known calculations to create.
Many times I go to sleep on a problem and wake up with the answer. Rough to do when you have been ordered to stay up until it is done. Other times I try to explain it to someone and suddenly realize that I knew it all along, just couldn’t see it. Sometimes I just have to clean my bench, solder a few trivial bits together, then the answer comes while I am thinking of something else.
It does really seem like we are not working on these things on our own, that we are part of something that can provide answers that you could not by yourself. So I agree with the idea of embracing a little stillness along with the frantic rush.
Very nice post Monte.
I suspect that you might be right about “a wholly spiritual world.” I should probably not have used the word “wholly.”
Yes… very nice! in fact very good!
Good one Mark… sitting in the cave get you nowhere… if cave sitting would work than this planet would be cleared by now,:the lover level of activity would be none existant like: having laws, murder, adultery, slavery, porno..greed, fear…. etc.. etc… stc..
Windhorse…. most people are not aware enough to recognize those who are aware and very much awake and those who talk the talk not necessarily walk the walk. Words, knowing them are not the experience it self.
Answering the questions with the understanding that I am sort of a dyslexic thetan and tend to do thing in opposites.
Q. Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the water is clear?
A. Depends on how serious the situation is. What I have to gain and what I to loose. It’s kind of relative.
Q. Can you remain unmoving till the right action arises all by itself?
A. No. I don’t like to wait. Feels like an ethics gradient to me.
Q. Review where your important cognitions, realizations, or problem solutions come from. Do you create them?
A. Usually I view “cognitions” “realizations” and “solutions” after a reality adjustment bought on by a real event. So, it is not fixed. My biggest cognitions are always against backdrop when I realize I have been a fool.
Q. Or do you let go sufficiently so that you may perceive them as they arrive all on their own?
A. That wouldn’t be me.
Q. Are you the author of something brand new to the universe?
A. Yes. Through my poetry. Through my dancing. I was definitely the best dancer in New York City for 12 years. I could go to an audition with 4000 girls standing in line and know I was going to get that job. But mostly, these kind of things I regard as a two terminal universe create. Other people could inspire me to create new things, like, just conversations that were never possible before. It sounds simple, but, in an auditing session you have these conversations you know never happened before. They just were not possible. It will always be me and the person across from me that created these conversations that never happened before. In fact, this blog brings about the same create. I have conversations here that I never had before.
Q. Or do you open yourself up to see something that was already there?
A. I do that too.
Q. Do the brilliant ideas come when you extrovert sufficiently from self and self- importance to make way for them? Or do they come when you are undisturbed – or encouraged – to gather your true master-of-the-universe bearing sufficient to birth another masterpiece?
A. My item wasn’t really on this list. I am not brilliant. I haven’t really had any brilliant ideas of my own. I am just a good student. I can integrate knowledge. Maybe I am a good translator. I am more of a game player than a game maker. I do have some other perceptions that other people don’t have. I wouldn’t say I am smarter or brilliant by any means. I can say I am more perceptive. I fall into parallel dimensions with ease. I’m flexible. Not brilliant. Not a master of the universe. Just an informed guest. I haven’t been the person who created great wars. Just the person put on the front lines to win them. But then I tell myself, “O.K., someone wrote the screenplay. Someone produced it. Someone directed it. I acted in it. Not them. ” If there isn’t any action, the ideas remain unmanifested.
I’m not brilliant. I am not a game maker. But I can manifest and make the games become a reality. The ideas become of value.
It’s an interdependent situation. The game makers need the pieces in the game, the game players, to have a game.
So, I do not belittle myself. The President can create a war. If nobody volunteers to fight in it he is fucked.
I know how to pick a winner and flow power. It’s a two way street.
It is kind of unjust that we honor great commanders and not great soldiers.
You see David getting all of this applause at the events. Never, an auditor that has been down in the trenches for decades doing the real work and making the real value.
Hubbard wrote the way but without those people willing to listen, Scientology would not have been possible.
And you get people complaining out here. They are rarely complaining about their auditor. The regges or execs or MAA or administrative staff. Not the auditors.
We are not the brilliant. We are the quiet that back up what makes sense.
We are the janitors, the taxi drivers, the nannys. the listeners not the talkers, the farmers, the mothers, the fisherman, the dancers, the minstrels, etc etc we are the Gods that favor or not. We are the voters. We have been discounted in Scientology as always voting for the person that will do us in. I think not. We are the wind beneath the wings of those that know us. We are not brilliant. Just the majority.
Now, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to find out what is wanted and needed and produce it. David Miscavige goes to the minority, his muse Tom Cruise, his attorney, to find out what is wanted and needed. I may not be brilliant, but I am not fucking blind.This guy isn’t exactly a smarty smarty. Yet, you see, he is a game maker.
Makers of games do not have to be smart or brilliant. Players in games, to win, have to be smart at least.
I don’t care if I am not brilliant. It is not my goal to be brilliant. Only to win as a game player. I’m still winning in this game.
This is kind of hard to explain. It doesn’t matter your identity if your goal is to win. You will take on all kinds of identities , identity becomes junior to purpose.
David has this great identity. But what a fucking looser!
And, you see all of these great identities in Scientology. they have not gone up the bridge. Geeze they got knocked off before grade zero! They did not have the PURPOSE to get up the bridge, they just wanted this identity, and the identity failed.
So you have these people looking for identity and their identity gets invalidated. So they leave, and why shouldn’t they? No thetan should have to pay and pay for a losing identity! That is one bad investment! Yet here is the staff in the Church selling losing identities and asking people to pay for them!
Come on people I am not brilliant but this is common sense.
So, losing some beautiful identity they are gone.
Well I was not looking for identity. I had my own identity when I came in that I was happy with. I had other goals.
All the way within the Sea Org there are cross purposes. You think those staff are on the same page?
When they blow off the bridge to hold on to their Sea Org identity they are gone.
And God knows you can not stay on the bridge and be in the Sea Org.
Unless you are Marty.
In my earlier days as a developer I had to go as far as posting to a forum in order to get an answer. There was more than reason for this. Firstly I believed I needed to ask others in order to get an answer. Sometimes these forums were rough – if you didn’t give enough data in your question you would get custard pies figuratively thrown at you. So I began to exteriorze from the problem before sending it by looking it over from the viewpoint of the guys on the forum. Once I was satisfied it told all and was as full a statement of the problem as possible I clicked the send button. As I got more experienced at this I found I could skip sending because it became utterly commonplace to get the answer within seconds of sending.
These were also a particular kind of problem. They were not technical how-to questions about something I had never studied. They were more like why isn’t this working when it should be or what have I done wrong here type questions. I’m not claiming to have “intuited” new knowledge I didn’t have before. My process always shows me something I already knew but somehow missed.
Love this post.
As for the photo, I have never seen the Sun so effortlessly hold a person in place.
Thank you Valkov.
obsessive causation leads to force , with the disastrous results we know.
It is a one dimensional world , excluding the world of others .
Moments of enlightment or cognitions occur when I can embrace all things and do nothing .
A wise man said ” when you are buried in shit up to your neck , the last thing you want to do is make waves”.
I continue to be a seeker/explorer of spirituality. I have preferences (my personal hierarchy of realities), opinions, interpretations, judgments regarding meaning and value in terms of being more or less and, more often than not, I do feel as if I exist as an individual person that is separate from other persons. It does really seem like I have personal thoughts, truths and history that are mine and do not belong or originate from others that appear to exist outside of myself. Now, this said (and I could say a great deal more), I occasionally have impossible experiences (impossible to be described with symbols that are viable in duality) that contradict everything I seem to know, understand or perceive. Consequently, as I continue seeking, exploring, looking…the notion of there being something that I need to learn; some state that I need to attain; some technique that I need to apply; somewhere I need to go; some question I need to find the answer to; some teacher I need to listen to….is rapidly falling away.
It’s interesting to me that when I zoom out and view the duality of opposites that seem to exist in mind/thought/form, another order of duality comes into view which appears as opposites. The opposites of duality and non-duality. It has occurred to me that I have been so fixated in seeking in duality for answers that I never, until quite recently – by way of reading A Course in Miracles, recognized that there was another choice i.e., non-duality. Therefore, ‘Monte’ (no need to bring in all the other identities I’ve assumed in time) has never explored non-duality. That noted, the previously referred to ‘impossible’ experiences I’ve had, have been experiences of non-duality where the person ‘Monte’ has completely disappeared yet the character ‘Monte’ seems to continue on.
If you are curious about non-duality, this non-duality panel discussion might be of interest to you.
Is it the letting go or is it the confidence (faith?) that I will get an answer?
In the process of describing the problem you reach and withdraw with the mechanics and geometry of it, thus raising the ARC. Some inconsistencies will blow by inspection (so to speak), making things clear in the process.
The resistance is gone, leaving you ready to recieve/conceive what you are asking for.
It’s interesting how anything one does in his life, no matter what profession, can be used as spiritual process – even software developement. 🙂
In many ways I am still waiting for the mud to settle. But that is of course because I have dug around in it so much. And too many times not waited till it was all done and finally the water was clear.
This is a brilliant quote and one to ponder on a daily basis.
I hope we can all sit for a while and think on that. It might do us all some good.
In the last couple of weeks I became aware of things that are going to happen in the future ,its seems like I am remembering the future and I remember it in detail .
After I remembered I went on the internet and read about it , about exactly what I remembered, what I remembered is what Major Ed Dames has been warning about for years – the ‘killshot’ , something happens with the sun that causes mayhem on earth , after it is over billions of people will have died .
At the moment I am doing everything I can to prepare , l am working out how to get enough food together to last for about 8 or 9 months , thats how long it lasts , I know from memory , its starts in september and goes through the winter for about 8 or 9 months .
I think it starts this year , but I am not certain , it could be the following year .
Unless I am remembering something from a parallel universe and it does not happen in this universe !
I think this post is appropriate to this thread , I do not know where this memory comes from , how I can remember the future I do not know .
Also I have not read the OT materials , so if there is stuff there about time travel I do not know , I have heard rumours about time travel material on the OT levels , but I do not know , I mean I am not revealing anything I know to be confidential here .
Adyashanti is a lucid Western apostle of non-duality(advaita). He has many videos on Facebook.
Sorry, I meant Adyashanti has videos on Youtube, not Facebook. Although for all I know, he is on Facebook, too.
A very good point Oracle. I noticed you make very good points. Do you have your own blog and/or are you actually developing an alternative or an upgrade to Scientology practice as it has been under and after LRH? I think Scientology has very good basic construct, but it also has plenty of things to sort through and (re)evaluate. That’s what I’ve been doing.
Hi Monte. What I personally sense, experience – or maybe intuit – is that I (and probably each of us) exist as an eternal, separate individual. It also seems to me that, at the same time, we are all “parts” of the whole in some sense, or can be – but thus far, that (for me) is based on “preponderance of evidence” rather than a knowingness. Mind you, I can have it either way, but that’s my “interpretation of my perception” (quoting you earlier 🙂 ).
Hot material. This Groddeck was a real genius. Imagine what he could do today with MRI. I love the part about sending the obscene letter to Hitler! As I recall, Hitler was sexually warped. His father was a tyrant and he only loved his mother very dearly – very Freudian.
Anyway, I am someday going to read this book by Groddeck. This idea of the “It” could also relate to Crowley’s Thelema in a way. The article also mentions the occult thread with Frenchman Rabellas, but the point is not well taken. The “It” and the “Id”. I would love to hear a dialogue between Freud, Groddeck and that German Nietzcsche. Hitler could moderate.
By the way, thank your countrymen again for me for stopping Hitler on the Eastern front. My son played us a podcast from “Hardcore History” that really put the battles in perspective.
George M. White
Finally, someone with common sense 😉
No, and no. Yes, we are all sorting through it. I am amazed at how much communication and ideas has been on suppress, as a result of exploring the Scientology. It is evident in the discussions, all that we could not say when we were “in”. And it is significant. I think the conversations are good. I think it is good for us to share our views. I don’t think it’s “over”. I think it is just beginning. It is not about yesterday really, it is about tomorrow and where we are going to be a thousand years from now. We will all take away something highly beneficial from this, and use it to make a better world. People don’t kill themselves off because of a bad year in kindergarten. They don’t drop out of school because kindergarten was kind of a drag. There are some things to iron out. Like, why we never had these conversations when we were “in”. Apparently, our ideas do matter. Reflecting on the time when I was “in”, nobody ever talked about the Scientology! You can’t talk about it until you leave. YOUR ideas are not supposed to matter. Nobody is supposed to think, you are supposed to let the staff think for you. Let Hubbard think for you. Now, you are supposed to let David Miscavige think for you.
Hubbard changed the purpose of the Sea Org from clearing the planet to policing the planet. But now that they are a bonafide religion, they can not meddle in politics, (They do it covertly where allowed). They don’t have anyone to police but themselves. Us. They are busy policing other Scientologists they have deemed “fair game” because they have no authority to police anyone else. And we are policed because of the conversations we have. We are harmed attacked and suppressed, because of the conversations we have. So, you see the kind of suppression that is on people’s comm lines that are “in”. So, the purpose of the Sea Org now is to suppress other Scientologists. To keep them “good”. Lord knows that isn’t going to take a billion years. The Churches are empty now. Most people do not want to pay others to suppress them.
Most people do not want to volunteer to suppress others. Most people do not have goals to be suppressive. I think this is why the Church is so frivolous with the declare orders. They feel fine declaring anyone suppressive, because to be “in” you do have to be suppressive. You have to suppress yourself and anyone else that isn’t running with the herd.
I am just very interested in sorting through the magic. I don’t think it matters that things mashed up and this thing spiraled south. To know why, is a very good thing. To know about human nature is a good thing.
Others are plugging along with the magic. Causation is still an interesting conversation not only in this circle, but others. The Scientology is a very serious business.
You can “have a look” into the first chapter of this book. The purpose of magic really, is to have fun. When I first got involved with Scientology, people were having a lot of fun with it.
Maybe other people do have as their basic purpose, “survive”. But my basic purpose is to have fun. I think when people are having fun, everything else falls into place. I don’t think Scientologists are allowed to have fun anymore, except for David Miscavige. I don’t think they would feel comfortable having fun. I don’t want to be involvbed with deadly serious activities, if I did I would be working at the Pentagon or the open heart surgery wing of some hospital.
They are asking people to join, to suffer and sacrifice. To make amends. Kind of a copy of the Catholic Church. It’s hard times to sell suffering and sacrifice. People try to avoid these things for the most part.
By the way, isn’t being able to sit still with calm mind the end phenomena of TR-0? And that’s in front of another person, not just in some comfort zone of your own choosing. Just saying…
People do not leave the Church in a blaze of glory, going out to make their mark on the world.
People leave the Church when they have suffered enough.
Thank you very much George! As kind of a self-appointed ‘reference librarian’, I am always happy when someone finds a post of mine useful/interesting. European thought was strongly influenced by Vedic/Buddhist teachings filtering in, and probably helped give name and form to the intuitions of folks like Groddeck.
As for stopping Hitler’s armies, in Russia that is still commemorated and the vast numbers who died doing that are remembered. Russians are very proud of having been able to accomplish that and sticking with it at such cost in lives. The suffering was terrible. Russians are not basically very warlike, but when our dynamics are threatened, we dig in…. so my people thank you for the acknowledgement, although I did not personally participate in the action myself (that I can recall!)
May you be well and happy!
Yes even software development. Many developers see a kind of poetry in code – attempting to pack the most meaning into as few words as possible.
Well, that’s not my situation. I have already been through the path that Marty is offering here of browsing through all the various New Age literature and Eastern Philosophies. Very little of what I came across had practical value in terms of achieving experiences through specific actions. I found that in Scientology. I do understand that it has been “encapsulated” into an authoritarian and mind-controlling approach, but some of the basic principles and basic structure that exists in Scientology is by far the best thing that I found from the vantage point of my own research and experiences. I understand that this cannot be a shared conclusion among the people that were not allowed to look and evaluate on their own to begin with.
That was never my case and is what got me through and out of Scientology environment. I looked and evaluated and communicated in line with my observations and evaluations. I thought it was in line with basic Scientology principles that I was learning in the initial materials. Obviously, that turned out to be not the way it really works in the group. I keep learning and trying to sort things out for myself.
“European thought was strongly influenced by Vedic/Buddhist teachings filtering in”
Very much so. The Germans were very interested in the Buddhist translations in the 1890’s. Later on George Grimm, a German judge, wrote and practiced and is one of my favorites. His Doctrine of the Buddha is a classic.
Herman Hesse wrote Siddhartha almost literally from the Buddhist Jataka and turned it into fiction which sold a lot of books for him. The book sort of distorted the Buddha but he can be forgiven because it is great work of fiction.
In fact, I think it was a German expedition that discovered the Ashoka column which outlines the teachings of the Buddha in early India. The British were also involved and R. Davis and his wife compiled a Pali dictionary early on which is still in use.
It is sad to see how German thought then deteriorated into the Nazi’s.
“It” or “Id” did not make much difference in the will to power of Hitler.
Hitler personally developed the strategy for attacking Russia and tried to avoid the mistakes that Napoleon made. My native Poland was attacked and many of my relatives died as a result of Hitler.
George M. White
“I have already been through the path that Marty is offering here of browsing through all the various New Age literature and Eastern Philosophies.” How condescending, and false to boot. You come off sorta like scientologists attempt to palm off psychiatrists.
LTC.. perhaps those basics which worked for you and me it works simply because we used them regularly.. and would work for others too if it would be practiced on regular bases.
Or if they believed in them.
So Marty, now you are trying to crush the “belief” as you say?
The basic books express some basic concepts. I don’t really agree with everything and the new books are full of major alterations. I also protested doing the “Basics” program when I was still on lines on the ground that it had no practical applications to go with it. What’s the point of going through all the data (a dozen of books and hundreds of hours in lectures) mainly directed at auditors without trying to check how it works through your own experience? That was also an obvious violation of study basics – lots of significance with no “mass” in the form of real experiences. I didn’t care so much for “clay demos.” Why work with “clay” when studying something that applies to people? It just seemed kind of strange to say the least.
Of course, but that goes for everything else too.. You know Marty.. I am not much on food if there were a substitute like one pill a day or just taking in air inhale it which has all the elements the body needs I would opt for that. since I don’t like food much I have become allergic to every bite I take… boils down I really don’t believe in food so it don’t work for me. Same goes for believing in auditing too.
Yes basketballjane, I am sitting for a while to think about all this…. waiting for the mud to settle too…
You are the evaluative one aren’t you? I stated a demonstrable fact; and said nothing about crushing anything. You’ve got one foot out the door headed to the streets with Allender and co.
Here are a couple of experiences that may interest you.
In one case, in one of my sessions I “recalled” being part of a group of beings that I called a “brotherhood”. I did not see bodies but was aware of numerous beings that were all sharing a common “mind”. It seemed that we were all operating “individually” in that we each were a source of independent viewpoints, considerations, postulates, etc, and perceptions, However, all of that data was totally shared. Total access.
Interestingly, what eventually fractured the “brotherhood” was that one of the beings withheld some data. We all knew that something was withheld, but not what. That one thing destroyed the trust upon which the “brotherhood” was based, and it very quickly dissolved.
Also, in this lifetime, I had an experience that was similar, only with just one person. We were together and suddenly I felt that I knew everything that they were thinking, and it seemed that they also knew everything that I was thinking. I seemed to actually be able to perceive them accessing our shared “mind(s)”. Unfortunately it only lasted about ten minutes or so, but it was an eye opener for sure.
Did these things “actually happen?” Good question… but they were plenty real enough for me, at the time.
LTC… At the Mission in Vancouver while taking the course I had to look up almost every word than look up those words: the chain of related meanings. I was learning English as I was taking the courses it was not easy since I have learning disabilities 2 kind of dyslexia but had the time of my life..I loved doing the demos since those days I still have used metal pictures while I worked out the demos but those mental images are gone they just vanished about 3 years back…
LTC… I believe truly do that each being is the right place where they are at, I also believe that not every one is ready for different ideas and fallow some dogma. some foot steps..
MY horse which I ride on its name is ”SOLO AUDITING” and I do believe in it I know its power but I will not push my belief on any one that would be not OK..By pushing my beliefs would not make me a better whatever…..intangible is. 🙂
LTC ….smooth down your feathers….
E…. thanks for writing that… lovely reality.. Best to you and more of the same!
I understand what you are getting at. There is value to be taken away. I agree. I don’t have a clue what Marty has studied in total or what the panoramic picture is. I like knowing what he has to say because he has a panoramic view of the whole Scientology picture. The tech side, the admin side, the inside, the outside, the top and the bottom. The junior, the senior, the P.C. the auditor. I can’t really think of anyone else that would be viewing from his angle. Spo even if he and you read the same book, you wouldn’t have the same result.
It is too bad this experience is so limited. It might have been good for Scientologists to have an open door policy. To any part of the experience. But it is very secretive even to it’s own members. When I was in the Sea Org nobody was trusted to know where the other staff were at the Int Base!
You know, that is a serious fucking red flag. But I digress.
Marty got to see the whole thing from every angle, and the causes and the results. And then step back and integrate that with other information. He remained curious.
This is the thing that is great about personal experience. And why people can not really view from the same angle. They are coming from different places. You read something and integrate that with what you know. So what you already know, mixed with something else, always creates something new.
This is the problem in Scientology, thinking everyone who reads the same piece of paper is going to walk away with the same result. They don’t.
People can read and understand something yet have no use for it whatsoever. Is the paper you sold of value then? There are pieces I have read or tapes I have listened to, that others do not want to even be reminded of. The whole idea of magic repels people for the most part.
Just like broken bones on someone else repel me. I don’t know anything about medicine in that regard. I know a little about herbs and chemistry.
So, it never works to compare yourself with others or them with you.
There is something in Scientology for everyone, even if you just want an identity from over there, to carry you for awhile. There are people who need that identity. For the most part, that is all the Church is selling these days, identities.
It is plain to see the Marty is not in a borrowed identity from that place. He is rather like water coming in from the sea that can spill everywhere and still flow. Not water sitting in a well someone dug.
Yes, the part that is practical is very useful I think. I have more or less loved the auditing when we go towards some positive case gain or some punchy thetan stuff, like the L’s, the grades, things like that. Even the drug rundown.
I must confess I am not a well read Scientology person. I have not trained as an auditor or audited others. I have not read much of the classics or the middle east. Many of the discussions are over my head here. When it comes to being enlightened. I lack the self discipline. I didn’t move up the bridge because I felt I had stops or problems. I did it out of curiosity. To feel the magic. To know about it.
The magic is here on this blog too, because people often do not know what they know, until they are asked. I don’t know what I know until I am asked. There is some kind of very interesting magic in this. That another person can break a spell by asking you a question. This is hugely romantic. The fact that someone has to care enough about you to ask you something, to lift you up. That is the magic of curiosity. With this you can travel through another’s mind, a place they themselves do not know.
I am obsessed with this conversation magic. Not really anything else in Scientology. Although, I was highly impressed with the anti Q and A Drills.
But only because it changed my conversations at work and made unusual things happen that were pure magic. It was still all about the conversations. I think we will put it all together through conversations.
Everyone wants to have them. The conversations we have here, would not be possible in another place or time. I have a deep feeling there is a specific question someone is going to ask me someday, that is going to feel like a key going into a lock. And the rest of anti magic spells will be broken. This happened to a great extent on L12. I see it in courtrooms. (I’m a P.R. consultant for attorneys (their witness’) ) Someone is asked a question and it just throws the whole theater into a new reality. One answer. It blows off confusion in your inner space to find the right answers to questions. All therapies revolve around a conversation.
Ooooh, I would pre order any book called, “The book of questions”.
Belief and practice are not the same thing. Hey, I am all for “solo auditing” if it works. Do you have a website where you lay out the theory and practice or is it based on solo auditing from Scientology OT levels?
I guess most people are looking for answers. I’m looking for questions.
That’s great, but personally I did find something like Scientology to be playing around with clay. I would rather work with people directly trying out the stuff that I was reading about in the books. I was already in some form of spiritual practice and “experimentation,” but as I said there is very little in the form of specific practice in New Age materials. It is mostly stuff along the line of learning to “be there” and developing or getting connected to greater “energy frequencies” through various music, pictures, connecting with nature, maybe some meditation… stuff like that, but it really doesn’t take off into some hardcore experience like running off an engram for example. That in itself is pretty “revolutionary.”
Why spend time trying to “calm” the mind if you can just erase whatever’s bothering it in the first place? I mean, you go to some meditation place or group and you can get pretty “calm” there, but once you out and about trying do stuff in an enturbulated environment – good luck keeping “calm” there, and “calm” may not be the best approach in the first place. One needs to be able to project an emotion and take action… etc. That what is so cool about something like TR’s in Scientology for example. Not only you learn to “be there” with calm mind, you also learn to actually do something on top of it.
If you want to know what I’m talking about, you can read one of the most popular New Age work – Eckhart’s Tolle’s “A New Earth.” It’s all about learning to be in the moment and overcoming the urges of what he calls a “pain body.” I read it shortly before I came across Dianetics. From the viewpoint of a New Age researcher, it was like wow, here is a method to actually erase the “pain body.” I wondered why Scientologists were not disseminating like crazy to New Age groups with all the methodologies that they had… I have come a long way to understand why that was/is the case…
Well LTC, as with many things in Scientology, it could actually be an assist to let the mud settle. Problem is, so to say, Scientology is designed to instantly muddy you up again and fill the clear waters with smoke and mirrors just to be able to tell you what action to take.
Funny, how that works.
“…we each were a source of independent viewpoints, considerations, postulates, etc, and perceptions. However, all of that data was totally shared. Total access.”
Thanks, Eric. The above expresses how I see things to be even now, except at this point in time the shared data is just a potential – but the potential is definitely there. And what you said about the trust having been destroyed by a withhold was thought provoking.
Amazing that you had such an experience this lifetime, the “total sharing of minds.” That’s pretty much the way some others have described the experience too. In this video, it is jokingly called “out-of-body sex.” 🙂
It is so enjoyable, to me, to read this.
Great to see such wisdom!
I found out a relatively short time ago that giving in to compulsions to have things happen now, to fix it now, to change it now, to deal with it now, to have it be now, or to prevent it now, seriously sabotaged the occurrence of what I wanted to be happening or to have happened and entrapped me in the world of must have.
It was amazing to learn that the “trick”to a conflictive to me situation was to allow it to be without having to do anything about it and if life opened up the door, presented the opportunity to do it, then it was ideal to do so then..
The freeing I got from it was superb. I could now more easily recognize and disarm the power of the compulsions that showed up in my world in many situations.. I did not “must handle” anymore.
Moreover, the calmness I had achieved by not having been overpowered by the compulsion and its dictate of do it now, resulted in a superbly harmonious, alive, spontaneous experience with a wonderful outcome every time.
I did not have to conjure up how to handle it, what to say, or do any thinking of what to do and not do. It just flowed so naturally, so harmonious..
To me, when the soul is not burdened by compulsions, by obsessions, by :”musts” it handles itself beautifully and accomplishes :”awesomenesses”, often without having done anything except postulating it…
I could not leave a reply to your wonderful praise (which made my day.. or two) two articles back as the reply button no longer existed.
I just came back to check Marty’s blog.
You keep nourishing and strengthening my securely anchored viewpoint you have accomplished a pretty high presence of soul!!
Appreciate you reply to my posting two articles back.
Could not reply there as the reply button is gone (at least for me).
What I appreciate even more is your connecting with me.
I am honored to be connected to a person I regard as being highly heart driven.
You and Marildi are heart twins :).
marildi, trust your intuition. And realize that words and other symbols will never be able to accurately describe or explain what you personally ‘sense’ or intuit. For example…the symbol, ‘intuition’ does not begin to describe or explain that which cannot be conceived of by mind/thought. It can only suggest a paradox i.e., that there is something there where there is no ‘thing’ and there is no ‘there.’ 🙂
Everyday, marildi, I take a bit of time and contemplate a lesson from the book, A Course in Miracles. The first paragraph of today’s lesson read:
“If you will lay aside the ego’s voice, however loudly it may seem to call; if you will not accept its petty gifts that give you nothing that you really want; if you will listen with an open mind, that has not told you what salvation is; then you will hear the mighty Voice of truth, quiet in power, strong in stillness, and completely certain in Its messages.”
I interpret “the mighty Voice of truth” in the excerpt above as being synonymous with my interpretation of intuition. Personally, I view intuition as being the genuine ‘Bridge.’ That said, this is not a Bridge that needs to be crossed in order to arrive somewhere as this is not a Bridge to Some Where it is a Bridge to No Where. This Bridge is but a reflection of that which has always been and is never not. Mind/thought/form (the ego’s voice), though, in its desire for self-preservation, calls out loudly offering its petty gifts of perception, sensation, individuality (in-duality), more and less (levels)…intending to keep the reflection obscured from view. Intuition is the reflection.
On one hand, the ego mind will do whatever it can to dismiss intuition. On the other hand, it will present its voice as the voice of intuition in order to misdirect.
Thank you for the prompt marildi. It settled some mud. 🙂
Much Love, Monte
I am developing software myself (PHP/SQL based), and I see it more like getting the most efficient inter-operability out of as little code as possible.
Eric, thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate them.
Experiences like the ones you shared Eric are what I call “impossible experiences.” The ego mind will challenge such experiences because it is only the ego mind that doubts. It will ask how the impossible happened or to what did the impossible happen and then go on to ask the same questions using many other variations. Of course, there is no answer; only an experience. Words cannot explain beyond symbols and “impossible experiences” are beyond symbols.
Eric, if you read my reply to marildi in this thread what I am about to say will make sense. I consider “impossible experiences” as being moments when the ego mind disappeared and I got a glimpse of my reflection.
Note: as an FYI…the term “ego mind” is not a term I ever used until recently. For me, Ron’s articulation of the reactive mind and its mechanics was more than adequate to explain the source of aberration. It wasn’t until I began reading A Course in Miracles that I chose to drop the reactive mind and use ego mind instead. The concept of the ego mind, as it is gradually exposed in ACIM, is just so much more expansive and viable (for me) in its description of this aberrant thought system than the descriptions of the reactive mind. That noted, my concept of the reactive mind easily fit into this concept of an ego mind/ego thought system as a viable addition.
Cheers ~ Monte
Valkov, Yes! Adyashanti is very much indeed a lucid Western apostle of non-duality. I have really enjoyed and gained much insight in listening to what he has talked about in his videos. In Advaita/non-dualism there is no room for relationships like Cause – Effect; Father – Son; Creator – Creation and so on but in A Course in Miracles (also non-dualism), which I gain much insight from reading too, there is an abundance of such relationships. Of course, they’re all metaphors but sometimes they do, for me, seem to get in the way and complicate things. This is why I both enjoy and gain by going back and forth between the Advaita and ACIM teachings. As for why ACIM uses dualistic terms in its teachings of non-dualism, here is an excerpt from the course that explains that:
“Since you believe that you are separate, Heaven presents itself to you as separate, too. Not that it is in truth, but that the link that has been given you to join the truth may reach to you through what you understand. Father and Son and Holy Spirit are as One, as all your brothers join as one in truth. Christ and His Father never have been separate, and Christ abides within your understanding, in the part of you that shares His Father’s Will. The Holy Spirit links the other part–the tiny, mad desire to be separate, different and special–to the Christ, to make the oneness clear to what is really one. In this world this is not understood, but can be taught.…It is the Holy Spirit’s function to teach you how this oneness is experienced, what you must do that it can be experienced, and where you should go to do it.
“All this takes note of time and place as if they were discrete, for while you think that part of you is separate, the concept of a Oneness joined as One is meaningless. It is apparent that a mind so split could never be the Teacher of a Oneness which unites all things within Itself. And so What is within this mind, and does unite all things together, must be its Teacher. Yet must It use the language [dualistic] that this mind can understand, in the condition [separation] in which it thinks it is.”
Note: for me, the Holy Spirit, as it is referred to in ACIM is a metaphor for intuition while God, Christ, Father, Son, Brother…are all metaphors for SELF as a pure non-duality Oneness.
A clarification: I mentioned that I “gained” from both Advaita and ACIM. However, since duality is inverted, that is not an accurate statement. In duality gain is loss and loss is gain. What is gained in duality that equals a loss? Concepts. What is lost in duality that is a gain? Concepts.
Of course, in non-duality there is no gain or loss and there are no concepts.
I suspect that the most basic building material of the mest universe is a concept.
It sounds like you are infact as ising your problem. ARC Bill DUPREE
Monte, you can be sure that you have settled some major mud for me along the way! Love you. 🙂
Luis, all I can say is that love begets love. You keep reminding me of that. Thank you. 😉
Look for Ouspensky’s conception of reality consisting of 6 dimensions. 6 may not seem like a lot, but his concept is 3 dimensions of space and 3 dimensions of time. In his view, this allows for the existence of the realization of every possible reality of past, present, and future. Every possible reality. If one could step outside of this 6 dimensional ‘universe’, one could then view or even step back into the realization of any imaginable possibility.
Mr. White, although I have not been there, I have some links to Poland in that my mother and grandmother were “adopted” by a Russian/Polish family, the Yankovsky, who had a well-known settlement in the Far East, in North Korea, for about 20 years. Here’s a link to an old blog of mine, (which I notice is falling apart and needs to be rebuilt!), which tells a little of this: http://www.gulagsurvivor.com
I’m glad you left these questions up for several days. It took that long for me to really examine them. You asked:
“Are you the author of something brand new to the universe? Or do you open yourself up to see something that was already there? Do the brilliant ideas come when you extrovert sufficiently from self and self- importance to make way for them? Or do they come when you are undisturbed – or encouraged – to gather your true master-of-the-universe bearing sufficient to birth another masterpiece?”
I am the author of many things that are brand new to my own universe. But much of what is introduced to my own universe is created by others and accepted by me. Most of what I create in my own universe is along the line of as-isness, more for my own amusement than for permanent creation.
In the physical universe I appear to have few original ideas. And when I am successful in helping others, which is my passion, it is almost 100% inspiration from others (7th and 8th dynamic) and I am merely a conduit, allowing the help to flow.
I don’t now, nor can I recall ever having any aspIrations for a “master-of-the-universe bearing” within the constructs of this physical universe. I do, however perceive my “self” to be master of my own universe and feel I am completely able to monitor the war or tranquility; the music or silence; the hate or the love within my own, personal construct.
I tend to believe that most sentient beings are merely visitors here. Like visitors to Disney World. Enjoy the scenery, have fun on the rides, please don’t litter.
Dear Robert …
IF I may be so utterly bold … you can’t let the mud settle WHILE thinking “about all of this” …
Therein lies the rub or the mud stirring as it were.
Therefore the various wisdom traditions have employed skillful means whereby the mud is allowed to settle. Meditation (not unique to buddhism), centering prayer, sufis somehow can let the mud settle while whirling (got me on that one) and the list continues.
The point is that “thinking” will never let the mud settle. I have the most annoying habitual pattern. I don’t necessarily “think” thoughts — instead I whistle a non-tune over and over and SOMETIMES i catch myself but most time I don’t … it just automatically keeps the mud stirred so that I don’t EVEN have to do it myself. Let the circuit do it.
There are times though that I’ve succeeded in letting the mud settle. It’s a fools game to think it stays settled ALL the time.
To test ones theory about whether or not one is enlightened with absolutely clarity — I’ve mentioned this before but it’s a great test …
Spend time with in-laws. More than dinner. How about a week? Or ex-husbands or wives? Or the estranged child? The test MUST be with those one has separated from for whatever good or bad reason.
Let me know how it does.
Oh — and to add some flavor to the mud — bring along a current companion to the event … 🙂
Do you believe in Body Thetans ?
Thanks for the link. I read with keen interest.
This is getting curiouser and curiouser. My wife read a few years ago to me a book about a man who escaped from the Gulag and walked all the way through a huge desert in Asia before reaching freedom just to the south of it. Also, I was in Vladivostok in 1971 on the Trans Siberian railroad after having been in South Korea for a year. I have a cat named Napoleon who acts like a tiger and has never been tamed in over six years of therapy by me.
This is a lot of fun!
“Auditing Process” R2-45 comes to mind
Or Hard Sell
Gerhard, I am well aware of how Scientology operates.
LTC… If you want to know where I am coming from than read every post in my blog than you will realise I talk from experience not quoting from some books. There I talk of Solo auditing and what one can achieve by doing so. Even if you only will read One article “Walk the Walk of the Solo auditor the Path of self discovery” You will understand what is solo auditing is.
LTC.. I do not theorize I write and speak from experience.
What do you care what I believe in? Maybe you should worry about your own beliefs and let other decide on theirs.
You for real? I looked at the article and looked over other articles on your blog. Where is the 1-2-3 of what you recommend people to do if anything? Also, you’d have to take into consideration different levels for different people. Solo auditing when you have gone up the Bridge… of some kind… and gone through actual training and processing curriculum at an organization that taught you “solo auditing” I mean yeah, that’s nice to talk about solo auditing at that point after you have received a whole lot of auditing with an aid of someone else…
I am not seeing you suggest anything revolutionary or different than the general curriculum at the Church which after having looked through the Tech Volumes, I’m not sure if I agree with all of it myself. But that’s another story. Do you have any practical application of solo auditing for someone that has not worked through all the other levels on the “Bridge?”
So far, I have come across one work that had actual theory and practice of doing something “solo” and that was TROM techniques:
I mean obviously, this is besides something like Self-Analysis lists.
Thanks for that link .
LTC as I said in the Blog it is Spiritual Journey the self discovery.. IT IS A DIAERY! and I know where I am at, for sure not real like you who is solid as the brick out house, who loves to hear self blowing hot air out of every cavity…
LTC do reread your posts, I read them… nothing is good enough to you.. every body is wrong.. not right.. not real.. the stuff is not there, not workable… .. why don’t you figure out what you are looking for than make it yourself… I am sure you can do that… after all you know more than any one else you who’s teachings reality beliefs you ever studied.
This is what bought David Miscavige down. He threw all of his most valuable players under the bus. He announces his muse, Tom Cruise, to be the most valuable player.
When his most valuable players pulled out, that guy just started slipping south. He did not see where his power was coming from. He thought it was coming from an actor. Someone who has never been on the front lines.
How ignorant can a man be? How full of love David must have gone over this guy. And you see how it has helped Tom?
THIS is what second dynamic fatalities kill off an org. Not smooching in some hallway or even having a tryst on the floor of HCO to blow off some pain by permitting a pleasure moment.
There is a tape on the BC called “Cycles of Action” that discusses the “width of present time.” In order to perceive minute and precise changes, you need to narrow down your “present time” to milliseconds. However, as in this study, you can have your “present time” be much wider – wider than 15 seconds, if you like.
This could explain why some people have slow reaction times and others don’t. If your perception of “now” is a 15 second window, that’s a lot of time for cars to run into you, deer to dash in front of your car, etc.
It is a great lecture. Note that it was in 1963 timeframe – 50 years before this study. That’s presentiment, no?
No – I could just reject this lecture because it was given by the shyster L. Ron Hubbard… But I’m not going to do that because I found it profound and it has enabled me to live a better life.
I guess you could accept something as “perfect” as it is… and then as-is it.
What is interesting about the little that is described about this study is that they are saying that the perception of “Now” is an average of the last 15 seconds. Now, I don’t want to shell out $32 for the study, but it would be interesting to see who they were testing, and the size of the sample. I would guess that if you tested world-class athletes or world-class surgeons and other precision-oriented people, you would see very different results. There is no way you can be a NASCAR driver, for example, and have your world be an average of 15 seconds.
I wonder if they even tested the ability of people to change how they perceive the present. Doesn’t sound like it.
Yes of course you are right: “think” and “wait” are not the path to wider horizons.. but reading all the comments on this blog certainly gives me pause to think. Usually, it is something like this that I say to myself after learning something amazing, “WTF. There is so much that I was NOT looking at all these years in KSW prison.”
There was an amazing amount of information in Scientology and now that I am out, there is even more information.
My biggest pause for thought is getting things into perspective. I think that is one of the biggest things that KSW robs from you: getting things into perspective instead of a “thought stopping” black and white world.
Or, the Holy Spirit is a metaphor for Intuition. Words, words, words.
LTC By now you should have come back with a real snappy answer, please use your imagination.. lets do this right. I am waiting with great anticipation! 🙂
Know what you mean, Tara.
“There are many good concepts in Scientology that helped me to evaluate more clearly…”
Can you elaborate on this please ?
Is this what you are on about ?
“mainly directed at auditors”
like this one ?
I just watched a video by Rupert Spira (another person who talks about non-duality) and I was reminded of an ‘impossible experience’ that happens on a recurring and regular basis and, being that it is so regular, I tend to take it for granted. This ‘impossible experience’ I’m referring to is dreaming. Whenever I attempt to explore the mechanics of dreaming I very quickly find myself in the ineffable (beyond words). Yet, for me, just the action of contemplating the mechanics of dreaming, has been, in ways that I am unable to explain, somewhat revelatory.
Here’s the Rupert Spira video that I watched where I was reminded about, what I refer to as the ‘impossible experience’ of dreaming. The point he is making is not about dreaming but in making his point he uses dreaming as an example.
As a fellow ‘product creator’ I thought you might enjoy this…😊
I think my biggest problem in Scientology. is that I can’t walk on by. The reason I got involved with Scientology was to help me be able to walk on by. In Scientology you learn to walk on by a lot of shit. And lord knows we needed that. Lord knows I needed help walking on by a lot of things. But there are things above the Scientology. Not for everyone, just for me.
Some people can walk on by their kids. People they love.
I spent a lot of time in my life with people that were suffering in brutal ways., I learned to walk on by a lot of it, it’s true. But not all of it by a long shot. There are some things I am never going to feel O.K. about. I can’t watch another person die with a smile of understanding on my face. I can’t watch pregnant women tossed out on the street by the Church and have a warm fuzzy glow. I don’t want to go on giving examples. I don’t know how these people in OSA function. Maybe in numb.
I was informed of the losses I would face becoming involved with Scientology. My case. My circuits. My ser facs. My inhibitions. My stops.
But somewhere along the line, I know where but I that is not important, I was asked to loose so much more than I ever agreed to.
See, Scientolgoy is a loosing game. You pay to loose shit. Your reactive mind for starters. Then your ser facs, Then this, and that. O.K., I will pay to have losses so I can have wins. I get it. I can understand it.
But when you ask me to let go of my heart , I mean, that was never part of the deal.
Some things I can not walk on by. I am not going to feel good about another person suffering no matter why.
The Church has dedicated staff members to make other people suffer.
These are the comfortably numb that can cause suffering and walk on by.
O.K. they are on a difficult planet with all odds against them and there is no room for mercy. Why the fight for this place? If we were not standing on something of REAL fucking value that we made valuable why are you here telling us we are in a wasteland and YOU need to take over?
Get real. Go find another planet to save. For the benefit of every man woman and child.
Do not come here say we are all DB’s and SP’s that must be ruled why? For your parking space on Earth?
Why are people working to conquer this space if it is just a wasteland?
Like we are all dummies.
My important cognitions, realizations, or problem solutions come when I get to have a lot of affinity, reality and communication .
For 17 years of my life my affinity , reality and communication was very down during the time I was in contact with the Church of Scientology cult, however I am recovering from the abberation that i got from that cult .
pride goes before the fall.
I do think of time as being ‘plastic’ or ‘elastic’. LRh lectured some about time in the 4th London ACC lectures too. Those are from the mid-50s.
I saw part of a movie just 2 weeks ago, about an escape through Siberia on foot, titled “The Way Back”. There is another movie titled “As Far As My Feet Will Carry Me”; one is about a German, the other is about a Pole.
I believe the “The Way Back” is based on the book
“The Long Walk”, about the Pole and some others who escaped as a group, although not all made it:
Getting things into perspective — definitely.
That said — today I was speaking with a buddhist friend who is going through a horribly bad time — she’s left the area and is living now with her sister — she’s spent the last 6 months crying and could be called – clinically depressed with suicidal thoughts.
Being so far away I did the only thing I could think of — talking was doing nothing — so I told her to walk outside and tell me when she had done so (she hadn’t been out of the house in a week) then I proceeded to direct her to a tree and touch it and another one etc.
When faced with the impossible … there is nothing quite like scientology assists …
I practice stilling the ripples of thought and emotions. I find it potent when I have done my homework of doing the material stuff also: study, finding out new data and practicing principles.
When my “ruds” are in, I then sit quiet and still all expectations, concerns etc, put my attention in the area, keep it there like a laser, open the door of intuitive knowing, and wait till that inner VGI, that inner explosion of clearity, reveals the “as is” of the state or information desired.
It is the same channel that music, poetry and all creative arts come from. Sometimes the inner knowing is beautiful: like music
Truth is beautiful.
Inner truths are revealed. They are not a manufactured opinion. Truth is the revelation of the self existing, self evident (axiom) inherent intelligence within all things, “within you and without you”. Thanks George
Yes, the withhold aspect was interesting to observe. What was withheld doesn’t seem to have been part of the dissolution of the group, simply that there was something that being chose to “hide” from the rest. It was the introduction of an “individual agenda”, an “other than”.
As to the video… Interesting.
It is possible that somewhere along the line, sex was bonded to “love” in an attempt to endear it to beings. Or perhaps beings were looking for love at a body level, and seeing the physical expressions of the ecstasies of sex, projected their concept of love into it. “Love” became a “feeling”, rather than a state of awareness and experience of total reciprocal duplication.
My affinity, reality and communication is way up at the moment from what it was a few years ago , the reason my ARC has increased a lot is because I am continuing with a project that I started out on 14,000 years ago.
Yes, I think I am getting the concept of “ego mind.”
An experience that may perhaps be similar to your concept of “the ego mind disappearing and getting a glimpse of my own reflection.”…
One time, when I was at Flag, I had the experience of being so “exterior” that I was not viewing the environment, or the people, from an “egocentric” viewpoint at all. In my interactions with others there really was no “ME”, but I was more participating as a “reflection” of the other person. I had zero investment in the interactions, it was all about THEM. I was just offering access to “my universe”, in their personal quest.
It would seem to be a perfect “auditor beingness” except that it wasn’t really a “beingness” at all.
The closest that I usually come to that is that I find that now I can often “let my shields down” in most interpersonal interactions. Another thing that is observable, is that when I “have my shields down” with another, very often they respond by letting theirs down too. I welcome them into my universe, and they respond by welcoming me into theirs.
Note: “Letting my shields down” is not totally “ego free” but I feel that it is a gradient to that state. It is, perhaps, exteriorizing from the “ego mind” to some extent.
Cheers back at you…
Grasshopper, what an important thing to say. I am going to tell you something that is a fact (for me) a truth (for me). I have found many miracles in life available for the taking through the application of L. Ron Hubbard’s written legacy. However, I have not yet, ever in this life and ANY org or mission I have ever gone to and done anything at, found these workable L. Ron Hubbard materials being applied. Never. Not even once. And I wouldn’t lie to you, because lies are very difficult to remember when the truthis what makes a person free. NOT ONE org, mission, CLO, ASHO, FLAG I have ever been to practices L. Ron Hubbard technology. People that say they belonged to the church and really had a good time and did what they wanted to do in life (as many have lied and stated) I don’t believe. I know better. And I am not up to challenge anyone on it. ANYBODY can make the decision to walk away from that corrupt mess, ANYODY, just like I did, a NOBODY that became SOMEBODY by getting the hell out of that place. One must practice Dianetics and Scientology independently these days to get any results. And look at how many MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars people are giving to the IAS and half of it gets spent Fair Gaming Marty, Karen and Mike. As a matter of fact I saw a picture the other day of Grant Cardone and he looked like his head was cracked in half at the temples and healed. Things are not OK in that church. And it is not a church. 🙂
Not sure if this is a matter of “belief”. I am a thetan and I am hooked into the body game. That makes me a body thetan. Just keeping in real. If you don’t “believe” in what you are I think that is O.K. too.
Thanks, Laurence. There’s the rub. In actual fact I _have_ see the tech applied and Ron’s legacy applied in spots here and there. The only value that has is that there once was a Camelot, but now it is long gone.
My mission in New Jersey was an exemplar of Scientology. However, at the time, the neighboring missions were not – such as Ardmore (which became the Philly Org) and some other mission a few miles to the north of us. My experiences with ASHO Day in the ’70s and ASHO Fdn in the ’80s were positive, but while LRH was being applied to help people in the Tech and Qual divisions, it was crazy in the other divisions.
To me, the people I knew who were having the most real and actual fun in Scientology were the people in Auditor training, and people in co-audits (usually in conjunction with auditor training). They/We were also the ones who were living with and applying the best of what Ron had to offer. Outside of being on course, we were living la vida loca, only without drugs and without alcohol. Poor as hell (like any students at that age) but there are a lot of free-ish things to do in LA, like go to the dollar theatre, or ride bikes up to the observatory or Angeles Crest, or go to the beach, or play softball, or just hang out and have a Tommy Burger. SO members really hated that we did this – we should have been on course all the time, bla, bla, bla, but the aberration was the SO, not us. They volunteered for their pain.
It was great. It really was.
And while we are on the subject of Grant Cardone, did you ever notice something truly ODD about this man? He has videos ALL OVER YouTube:
“How To Make Millions”, “How to Succeed in Business” “How to Triple Your Income” et. al. all over the place and YET, YET this guy is not even able to open a mission anywhere but can be seen with his girlfriend on YouTube giving people the finger like Madonna? 🙂 He is a true Miscavige believer. I can spot that ludicrous crap a mile away. The man is out of it AND has donated millions to the IAS and is OT VIII! 🙂 The higher up the RCS grade chart they go, the crazier they get. Example: Rex Fowler – OT VII – Murdered his fellow OT co-worker in cold blood because their ethics were in. That church is dangerous and should be outlawed. 🙂 And I say that a no joke! OUTLAWED! and replaced with the real thing. 🙂
So good to hear from you.
By now you probably know my opinions and my practical viewpoint toward spiritual enlightenment. In order to get to the point of being able to manipulate stars, one must first clean that ashtray. And then the kitchen, and then the garage. Then, learn all about plants and bushes and plant nutrition and soil so you can get the yard looking nice, then how to pour concrete and then the chemistry of house paint, and, and, etc. etc.
Funny thing, as the place starts to look good, the work becomes more and more fun. The point being that to improve oneself takes activity, doingness, detailed and methodical work. Patience and a long term outlook are necessary. My particular method is not as important as the effort. I understand that it is not as easy for some as for others. I can only say that it gets easier and more fun as one goes along. I have a few hundred years to kill. Nothing better to do.
Marildi is a doll. Gotta love her. She has so much knowledge. Erzsebet (Elizebeth) has done so much work, Brian is on a mission, The Oracle has seen so much, and so many more lovely people on this site. Don’t know what they all think of me, but I consider them all my friends. Couldn’t have a better bunch. And Marty?, a lion incarnate.
My essays are building into a portfolio as the observations grow. They started off as interesting, but are becoming a useful addition to one’s path. Drop me a note, I’ll send them
Talk to you again.
Serenity and drive, a potent combination.
We are as a shattered glass, wanting again to be whole, complete.
This is ONE aspect of the ecstasy of sex. That physical facsimile of total ARC. One aspect.
Then there is feeling, yourself, able and competent. But that may be more of a 1st Dyn. thing.
But there is always the exercise part.
Tell me about your project.
David is not just “out of favor” with the Gods. The Gods are out to get him now.
Scientology doesn’t have a heaven:
What you wrote about the being choosing to “hide” something from the others and thus dissolving the group made me wonder if that’s the basic on LRH’s description of jealousy:
“Jealousy is the largest factor in breaking up marriages. Jealousy comes about because of the insecurity of the jealous person, and the jealousy may or may not have foundation. This person is afraid of hidden communication lines and will do anything to try to uncover them. This acts upon the other partner to make him feel that his communication lines are being cut; for he thinks himself entitled to have open communication lines, whereas his marital partner insists that he shut many of them. The resultant rows are violent, as represented by the fact that, where jealousy exists in a profession such as acting, insurance companies will not issue policies —the suicide rate is too high.”
(from the essay “On Marriage,” NSOL)
On the subject of love and sex, there’s actually a yoga path of enlightenment:
“Yoga of Love, The Sexual Path”
“Tantra is sometimes being called the ‘Sexual Yoga’. This, however, this may be misleading. Tantra is not a yoga of sex. Sexual energy is in Tantra used as a vehicle for consciousness, as a tool of expansion. This powerful, sacred force is treated with utmost reverence.
“The Sanskrit word Yoga means union. Sexual energy, the strongest force in universe, the energy of creation, is the most powerful force of spiritual transformation. Love, the basic wave from which everything is created, is sexual energy transformed. Sexual union between a loving couple (Maithuna) is viewed as the highest congress bringing the human to his divine origin: Tantric lovers use exchange of loving energies in lovemaking (sexual union) in order to reach loving union with one another, the Beloved (Soul, the higher self), and ultimately, the whole existence (Cosmic Union). Love is at the beginning and end of this journey. Love is the vibration we are made of, love is what keeps the Universe holding together, love is God/dess. It really is THAT simple.”
Really? It can happen. LRH tech does surface at times in certain churches. It can happen. It just didn’t happen to me. Hence, my very firm and strong belief that anyone there really applying the tech should have noticed the out-tech in the services other people might have been getting along side them. A church or mission can be on-policy for people with money and off-policy for people without that much at the same time? 🙂 To me, this is fraud and abuse of people whose eternities depend on the same thing anybody else’s did or does in any org or mission. It is part of the basis of the church’s huges losses in court in the U.S. and elsewhere. 🙂
And just one other thing. I don’t want to leave anyone with an MU here. How did I become cause over the situation between myself and RCS? When I first got into Scientology I just took for granted that the people at the Org were experts in LRH tech and helping me. The tech being applied was not LRH. The staff in turn cognited that I was able to take for granted any tech they offered and rest is history. Until one day I questioned a situation civilly, morally, ethically, legally and a fight erupted, the staff were upset I was questioning their validity. The order was you pay for and do this out-tech or else. So since then I have known that staffers DELIBERATELY go out of their way to do this and damage people not unintentionally as though they are seeking to be corrected, and I no longer take for granted their results. 🙂 Unless of course they are bad results. 🙂
Or Spirit. I vote all Thetans go back to their own planets please
“I didn’t disconnect from my son because he was a bad SP who I needed to
get away from,” she told me. “Disconnecting from them is supposed to
snap them back into your life. I thought I was being good to my son.”
Your description of what you experienced at Flag is a wonderful articulation of an experience that is beyond words!
Speaking of words…I have been sitting here for several minutes now attempting to bring words together to describe what reading your experience of being so ‘exterior’ that there was no ‘ME’ and only ‘THEM’ prompted…yet, even with all the words I have at my disposal, there is not one I can use to direct your attention to a ‘No thing.’ 🙂
I did just have this thought, though, Eric about ‘going exterior’ that I perhaps can explain. I suspect that the concept of ‘going exterior’ is erroneous and thus misleading. It is occurring to me that there is no ‘exterior.’ And that in all those times where I would be aware that I had gone or was ‘exterior’ that what was actually happening in those moments was that the construct of what I was identifying with i.e., the person known as Monte and Monte’s “baggage” had, for whatever duration, fallen away and I was experiencing a momentary relief/release from the burden of this construct. In these moments the Monte character construct continued on happening but ‘I’ wasn’t attached to it. It wasn’t ‘Me’ (awareness) it was an object that ‘I’ was aware of.
Eric, I liked how you described what would happen when you ‘let your shields down’ and in particular how you noted that often times when you let your shields down others would respond by letting theirs down too. It is a wonderful example of how giving is receiving and what you have described is, to me, a reflection of my lesson for the day from A Course in Miracles. Here’s an excerpt from that lesson:
“True light that makes true vision possible is not the light the body’s eyes behold. It is a state of mind that has become so unified that darkness cannot be perceived at all. And thus what is the same is seen as one, while what is not the same remains unnoticed, for it is not there.
“This is the light that shows no opposites, and vision, being healed, has power to heal. This is the light that brings your peace of mind to other minds, to share it and be glad that they are one with you and with themselves. This is the light that heals because it brings single perception, based upon one frame of reference, from which one meaning comes.
“Here are both giving and receiving seen as different aspects of one Thought whose truth does not depend on which is seen as first, nor which appears to be in second place. Here it is understood that both occur together, that the Thought remain complete. And in this understanding is the base on which all opposites are reconciled, because they are perceived from the same frame of reference which unifies this Thought.”
Much gratitude and appreciation Eric.
Thanks for the reply. I shall be on the lookout for the movies.
On another thread, I have been researching Groddeck.
“In 1921 Groddeck published the psychoanalytical novel Seeker of Souls (newly edited by the GGG 1998). This book combines analysis and a satirical critique of the times with coarse situation comedy; what really drives the action is associations and interpretations of words and symbols into whose traps the protagonists fall in their analytical adventures.”
I am suspecting that Groddeck was influenced by Eastern religion.
He seems to have incorporated some Karma into his ideas.
Have you read “Seeker of Souls” by Groddeck?
George M. White
In this particular incident, jealousy was not any part of it. It was more the concern that if one of the group had something that they were not willing to share, then how “safe” was it for the others to continue to share everything?
Back in my early days at our Mission we had Peter Gillham come to do several seminars. In one of them we did a “drill” that went like this:
We were all instructed to take some money from our wallets, purses, etc. and pass it to the person to the person next to us. (Basically it was set up so that the money would circulate through the whole audience, and then back to the beginning again, and so on.) Many of us were a little apprehensive about not getting our money back because the amounts varied depending what size of bills you had. We were assured we would all get our money back.
So… Peter says “start” and the money starts moving… then he says to speed up the flow… As the flow sped up, the tone level went way up, and it became a game, and we were laughing and having fun, trying to see how fast we could move the money.
Then we were told to stop.
For the next part of the demonstration we were told to do the same thing, only this time he told someone in the audience, that when he gave a signal, that one person was to take money, but not pass it on. (withhold it from the rest of us, in other words). The game was started and went until we were laughing again…. and then the signal was given to that one person… Even though there were about 70 people or so, spread over five rows, within seconds the laughter ended and the flow stopped, even though the person collecting the money had collected only a small portion of it… The remainder of the audience were simply no longer willing to pass on the money they had in their hands.
The story that I told about the “brotherhood” was similar to that. Starting with just one person withholding, the total trust and openness, upon which the group was based, collapsed.
PS… We did easily get all of our money back. That also became a game.
Try that in the “church” today… Any guesses how that would go?
Thank you for your acknowledgement.
Yes, my concept of “exterior” may be similar to yours. To me, one does not so much “go exterior” as one perhaps “un- interiorizes”. How “exterior” one is, is better stated as how “un-interior” he is.
L. Ron Hubbard presented this little construct, at one point. He said to “picture it like this… You are the thumb and the body is a sliver.”
Well that doesn’t work that well for me as I feel that since the thumb is something that I perceive, then I am “not-thumb”. (Of course I he was just giving an example and not stating any whole truth…)
I consider that we beings are “exterior” (not interior) to the whole universe. But I also observe that we are actually interior to everything at the same time, as we pervade all space, and all objects. We just assume a viewpoint from “inside” something,(or somethings), from time to time.
I consider that “exteriorizing” in the sense of “moving a viewpoint LOCATION” is a misdirect. Any location is just a viewpoint location in space, and you pervade all space.
I feel that anything that you are not convinced that you fully ARE, you are exterior to, to that degree.
“Confronting is the ability to ‘not be’ something. It is the state of being ‘other than’ that thing.” That would make me think that perhaps “confronting” and “exterior” are two names for a similar state. ( In the drill on confronting, a location is specified, but you will note that it is attached to “confront” with the word “AND”.)
PS: having said that, I also feel that the TRO drill is not anywhere as esoteric a drill as many of us consider it., or have used it. I feel that it was simply to get it so that the “auditor” did not distract the PC with his fidgeting and such, and that the auditor was not so distracted that he was not perceiving the PC…. but when one has achieved that, and is persuaded to continue with the drill… well, you are dealing with “thetans” here, and we will find other grander uses for it.
Good summation Mark
Of Groddeck, I have read only The Book of the It, and that was quite a few years back. I do think Germany, Austria, and Europe was permeated by Vedic ideas by his time, so he was likely aware or influenced by them in some way. His intuitions may have been his own, but the Eastern ideas helped give him voice, I think.
Oracle “David is not just “out of favor” with the Gods. The Gods are out to get him now.” some reality, mind you good as any other..
we love to judge.. judgements are interesting if we down grade that point out that we know better therefore we are better, if we upgrade than the upgrade shows that we are really with it because we recognise the good!!
Eric, great story! And a good question as to how that would go in the church today. I think of the people I knew in the later years I was there as having rather sticky flows, too much “must have / can’t have.” But that Peter Gillham exercise (the first part) might actually pull them up out of that condition. The basic being is not entirely “lost” in spite of the culture, IMO.
Your earlier story about the “brotherhood” that shared a common mind makes me think of the Internet. Ironically, this basically mechanical apparatus is what allows us to share data like “never” before, and because of that it may be what ultimately brings us all closer together spiritually. Seems to me it already has and that it will accelerate as time goes on. In any case, that shared recall of yours is a haunting one! And a good example. 😉
Make that “shared MIND recall.”
I like Luis’ description of us as heart twins. 🙂
Well, you have to realize that we can’t hold everyone up to the full standard (as much as DM chooses to believe you can). We were in the state where if someone so much as looked at Book 1, he could be considered a Scientologist, and where people would join the SO without having even done a comm course. Very few people were auditor trained – which is what you need to understand the tech and the reason behind various policies. Scientology was young and there were a lot of mistakes.
To me the difference between the GO of the ’70s and the current bunch is that for the most part>/em> the GO’s goals and people were true. The methods were very much over-the-top, and ultimately illegal – but it was not for personal gain that Mary Sue, Henning and the others did what they did. And they got caught. Very, very few people were involved with it and very, very few people even knew about it. Ron was fighting fire with fire, and as it turns out, you can’t do that with the government.
I am not justifying it – but I believe the antics of that period should have been a learning experience for an immature organization. and it was for some, not for others.
I’ll tell you what my view was: I knew that Scientology was not perfect, that the SO had flaws, that the tech was under development, and that there were a lot of people who were at very different levels of ability as far as Scientology is concerned. I was 17 on staff at Flag, and almost every SO member I worked with there had zero tech training – meaning, they had zero understanding of Scientology. I could see at the time that there would be trouble, because no one is going to kill themselves for a cause without knowing what the cause is. And sure enough, you got people blowing and saying how bad it all was. There is nothing wrong at all, and in fact it is laudatory, to sacrifice for a good cause – but you have to know what the cause is. When someone does not know why they are sacrificing, then it’s easy to be upset about it. They got upset at what they considered was “Scientology,” such as the SO, RPF, mid-rats, crazy hours, awful screaming harpies, awful screaming assholes, etc. They think that is Scientology. But it’s not.
So, sure I could see the problems of the church, but I could also see the good, and, perhaps naively, in retrospect, I believed that the good would replace the bad or ignorant as people matured and as the subject matured and as people learned more and more of the technology.
It’s not “fraud.” It’s ignorance, and then it became evil feeding on ignorance, with the ignorant not knowing really what to do. Which later became outright fraud – the fraud the church is now.
I mean, look, if someone comes up to you and tells you that having an abortion is “pro-survival” and you know the tech, you tell them to fuck off. In the context of the SO, it is NEVER okay to have an abortion. Hell, in the context of being a Scientologist, it is NEVER okay to have an abortion unless there is real, physical danger involved. But hey, the evil fed on the ignorant.
Also, if someone comes up to you and tells you to disconnect from your mother, you tell them to fuck off. There is no justification for this at all. There is tech that says you can be badly affected by being connected to an SP (i.e. PTS), but in reality you can only be PTS if you are a lily-livered coward. At least PTS in the way the church seems to think PTS is these days. You walk into the same room as an SP, and you are automatically a quivering pile of chicken shit.
But Ron put all his eggs into the SO, and did not allow a non-SO oversight or balance to the insanity of the SO, and there was no internal mechanism to correct this shit. When the SO and Policy is designed to assume that that guy at the top is an all-knowing powerful saint, this is what happens. You write it up, you get shot. You mention something, you get sec-checked up the ying-yang. You try to impose order externally, and you get declared and hounded.
So, people noticed the out tech, but the avenues for correcting it were extremely limited.
Oops – closing tag error at start of second paragraph.
I challenged my sups, case supervisors, qual secs, and MAAs every step of the way. But you can only do that if you work your ass off to study and apply the tech. I held a few people in awe, but they were few and far between.
Actually, there is no “end phenomena” of TR-0, as it is a training routine and not auditing. You pass when you can be there comfortably and confront. This is not the same as meditation. The closest thing to meditation in Scientology is “Spacation”, AKA R1-6, or “Take ten minutes of nothing.”
This is my planet. I think it is everyone’s planet that is standing on it. If you don’t believe in where you are, that’s O.K. too.
Valhalla has opened it’s gates to put an open retribution on David Miscavige. The mockery he has made of warriors and the super natural has inflamed the Gods.
Yes. Because the tech was under development. It was even under development at the time I first read Dianetics in 10th grade. BUT… 🙂 In spite of that fact, I was never able to understand as well as the staff of the orgs I did business with seemed to, how whatever tech there was at the time was worth corrupting? That is my point. I made the most of what I had. If I felt the Sea Org was not for me, I didn’t join and gave a real reason why. Not enough training, case that needed handling. something that was true. Just because the tech was under development does not mean one should corrrupt whatever tech their is! 🙂 Further example: If the tech for pollution less vehicles is still in the works, but will ultimately be released, should people dump as much pollution as they can into the air up that time? 🙂 A=A Grasshopper, A = A and well, knowing me I prefer A is different than B when going from Point C to Point E.
You did the right thing. Without even having to be told by reading an LRH reference, when the staff stopped listening to me and made believe they were in ARC with me, I just quit communicating with them. I didn’t need to use LRH as a reference or go to Qual and search for one. I just quit communicating with them and the problem went away. The problem went away to the point that it is now socially and legally acceptable to pick up the phone, call the police and have church staff arrested that run around making believe they are freeing thetans with LRH tech. If you want my opinion, that is about the sickest most degraded joke on the whole track. Make believe auditors and C/S’s and word clearers and supervisors, for pay instead of results. Cracks me up every time and lots of time I burst out laughing right in the staff’s faces, lots of time, I am sorry, because I just don’t know anybody that believes being implanted here on Earth for life is supposed to be a joke to them. 🙂
Hello young lady.
Most of the so called ‘Gods’ I’ve met lately were more like mob bosses or political tyrants. DM would fit right in.
Not to many good old fashioned benevolent Gods left.
I have sent you my e-mail for you to send me your essays.
I am with you on the viewpoints you are assuming.
They eventually produce, in my experience, genuine spiritual growth as one is existing in the present with the awareness of the conditions that are existing now in oneself and in one’s life, and how one is responding to them, and so one is able to make them better..
For most of my Scientology life, I lived in the world of seeking to “manipulate stars”.to avoid facing the not so healthy condition I and the areas of my life were in.
It was not Scientology’s fault, it was my escape from the pain that being in the present, that being connected to me and to the areas of my life brought about because of the unhealthy condition they were in – The ashtray, which I refused to see, was, of course, really dirty 🙂
Only when I began to see that the “ashtray was dirty”, to recognize my avoidance of the pain seeing it produced, and to grant beingness to the pain, did I begin the growing adventure my life has become.
I am receiving this cram because you have passed judgement. I am only forwarding valuable information. I have not felt you in the halls of Valhalla. Probably because you choose to discount such realities. And make nothing out of them. And me.
I don’t think that is something I need to fix on my end.
By the way, I did take the ashtray as a methaphor for dealing and paying attention to what is in one’s life, and should be attended to, instead of what is not.
I am aware you meant it different,
I think you are stating the importance of being “down to earth”, of embracing and operating in the physical universe instead of invalidating it by the pretense and arrogance one is in a higher state and doing things physical, putting effort towards achieving, becoming competent in handling it, demeans one’s pretended, wishful thinking state.
Why not look through my post for that word or phrase that caused your protest read? See what it is you oppose, and iron it out?
LOL, why hello there fellow Earth-Spirit
Talk about Causation: What was first? The religion or it’s concievement of it ?
The Brain During Religious Experiences
“Because of the work connecting temporal lobe epilepsy and spiritual experiences, scientists previously believed that the temporal lobe was the only part of the brain involved in religious feelings. Recent imaging studies, however, have shown that many parts of the brain are activated during a religious experience.
At the forefront of these imaging studies is Andrew Newberg, a doctor at the University of Pennsylvania. Newberg used single photon emission computed tomography, or SPECT, imaging to take pictures of the brain during religious activity. SPECT provides a picture of blood flow in the brain at a given moment, so more blood flow indicates more activity.”
“His intuitions may have been his own, but the Eastern ideas helped give him voice, I think.”
I find the above statement to be true. Groddeck had a very complex relationship with Freud and even became despondent when Freud delayed a response to his letters. Freud reviewed “Seeker of Souls”
and actually helped to publish it. From what I can gather, Groddeck was trying to combat the “hypocrisy” of society and the medical establishment of his day. The Vedic/Buddhist ideas seemed only to partially liberate his mind and give courage to human expression which was blunted for centuries.
In the end, he and Freud were caught in the explorations of sexual fantasy and deep problems with ideas and conflicts in relationships. Freud also wrote a great deal about religion in his later years but only to illustrate its limitations. Thus the conflict between faith/science remained as the major theme and was never transcended.
I admire Groddeck because he had the courage to try to encourage more direct behavior based on the “It.” It is a pity that German thought degraded itself into Hiitler. I think Groddeck and Freud were trying to untangle the riddle and for that I am grateful.
George M. White
Please do not loose faith in the supernatural. It is not true at all that there are not many Gods left that are benevolent. David Miscavige has an expiration date. That is a real . He is a product with an expiration date. That does not make him a God.
In fact, his expiration is sooner than you may thinking.
I have sent you an email.
Yeah she threw both of her sons under the bus in different ways. As she wobbled this way and that. One for disagreeing. The other is put on the spot to choose between her and his wife and children. She costs a lot for a relative. Your life, be it this way or that. I personally would not feel comfortable burdening my family or children in this way. But she seems to be very comfortable in some weird regard that She is the one who really matters in all of this. Feel for her her last remaining son. She just throws family under the bus on whimsical convenience.
She comes on Marty’s blog and posts to me just shut up. Like she never got the fucking grade zero tech. What auditor tells anyone to please shut up? She is a loose cannon expecting her son to lay his wife and kids on the line. She is saying “something has got to give” but it ain’t her right?
Making herself a choice between HER and her husbands children and wife? This bitch is tripping.
I meant, her son’s wife and children.
There is a difference between being judgemental and judging.
I would venture to say it has nothing to do with “gods”. The devil himself will see to DM. He is that evil.
Oracle “David is not just “out of favor” with the Gods. The Gods are out to get him now.” some reality, mind you good as any other..
we love to judge.. judgements are interesting if we down grade that point out that we know better therefore we are better, if we upgrade than the upgrade shows that we are really with it because we recognise the good!!
Brian.. you have noticed that.:) yes there is.
Oracle…..look at the exchange of communication.
Elizabeth…‘’“Oracle “David is not just “out of favor” with the Gods. The Gods are out to get him now.” some reality, mind you good as any other..
we love to judge.. judgements are interesting if we down grade with that point out that we know better therefore we are better, if we upgrade than the upgrade shows that we are really with it because we recognize the good!!
Oracle “I am receiving this cram because you have passed judgement. I am only forwarding valuable information. I have not felt you in the halls of Valhalla. Probably because you choose to discount such realities. And make nothing out of them. And me.
I don’t think that is something I need to fix on my end.””’
Elizabeth: It is truly amusing what you have read into my comment and that is indication of active imagination, there was no personal attack on you, I was not making nothing out of something and definitely I did not put you down in any ways.
Please re-read what I have posted: I have said what WE LOVE TO JUDGE and in the “WE” the self here is included!
If you felt that I have judged something else like your opinions –your reality in you post than you put it there in your own mind.
Now that is true You have not sensed my presence in Valhalla because I am not there and on the other hand I don’t have reality that you have been lately in the Hall of Infinite.
BUT If you believe that you are Nothing you no longer a being a person, no longer have value importance than I think in my reality that is truly fantastic than I give you a very big welcome into the HALL of INFINITE where I am at.
”Realities have equal values.. You wright of what you know I write what I know.
PS; If you believe that the gods will get David and that is vital information you need to pass on by all means: spread it!
Now in your next sentence what is? Judgement, invalidation evaluation, take your pick. Probably because you choose to discount such realities. And make nothing out of them””. And me. “
What you believe what I do is your reality “only your assumptions” and you have come to that understanding which is born out of your believes and not mine!
For you information: I believe in everything I mean in everything’’ almost”: I know that there is no solidity.. and I know I am not the body a being or a person or my beliefs.
it is you who caused the miss-understanding what you have because your own miss duplication.. so please end it..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Happy Easter to you and yours.
Basicly he is just a little brat who inhereted a good system for suppresion
“I have already been through the path that Marty is offering here of browsing through all the various New Age literature and Eastern Philosophies. Very little of what I came across had practical value in terms of achieving experiences through specific actions. I found that in Scientology.”
That is like saying a non scientologist walks by a course room, sees students yelling at ashtrays and concludes scientology is not for me.
Knowing theory and practicing a subject, is the only way to have an intelligent opinion about the subject.
You would advise that person watching another yell at an ashtray to read about intention and take a course. Simply reading a book or a few books does not an informed person make.
Ron was talented at selling “only-bestest- mostest scientific-smartest-most workable.”
His selling of that, translates into a limited understanding of other paths.
My way is better than other ways, is so old school.
We can learn from each other. That is the new world.
Do you have a brain study that can account for this?
I guess I should get back to doing art.
Valkov….”Words, words, words.” Yes, words, words, words…they seem to be workable for exchanging concepts as long as one remains in a duality frame of mind. But, the instant one begins to ‘think’ outside of the duality box, words and other symbols lose their viability and seem to be more of a liability. Yet, ironically, we can use words to seemingly ‘move’ our point of view outside duality (but, of course, there is no such thing as ‘outside’ duality because there is no ‘outside’).
I’m reminded of a passage from chapter 12 in Herman Hesse’s book, Siddhartha (my favorite chapter in the book). Part of that passage reads:
Quoth Siddhartha: “I’ve had thoughts, yes, and insight, again and
again. Sometimes, for an hour or for an entire day, I have felt
knowledge in me, as one would feel life in one’s heart. There have
been many thoughts, but it would be hard for me to convey them to you.
Look, my dear Govinda, this is one of my thoughts, which I have found:
wisdom cannot be passed on. Wisdom which a wise man tries to pass on
to someone always sounds like foolishness.”
These are things, and things can be
loved. But I cannot love words. Therefore, teachings are no good for
me, they have no hardness, no softness, no colours, no edges, no smell,
no taste, they have nothing but words. Perhaps it are these which keep
you from finding peace, perhaps it are the many words. Because
salvation and virtue as well, Sansara and Nirvana as well, are mere
words, Govinda. There is no thing which would be Nirvana; there is just
the word Nirvana.”
Valkov, it’s interesting, interesting for me anyway, that even though all these different people who talk or write about non-duality use different terms or, the same terms with different meanings, emphasize different things as well as no things, use diverse styles in their delivery, communicate in different emotional tones, have remarkably different experiences on their so called individual ‘journeys’….they are all, despite the various forms used in communicating, communicating the same content. And, none of them are ‘teaching’ anything to anyone even though may seem to be.
Monte .. … thank for your post they were well placed words?
First, yes you are right there is no inside and one can not exteriorise either….hehehe
Your words are right and the person you quoted is right. Wisdom can not be thought since learning the words even if one know every meaning how each word can be used by knowing the meaning of words their concepts will not give the experience that reality where those words were originated from. Example: having cognition on some subject since cognitions need not to be defined explained, cognitions are the experience it self.
These experiences are the new reality awareness how one experiences, sees the Universe from that moment on and that reality can not be defined or understand by any one. that reality can not be thought.
How could I convey what I see, what I feel when my companion looks into my eyes: I feel the universe opened up, and all significances around us melt away.. than I add back into that: wonderment and I see beauty and than I notice every little detail marking on her fur the coloring every shades of creams ambers grays and black touch of snow here and there than I hear the sound of purr and feel the softness, Sanifar is a wondrous. Only words can be though and when the words are learned we each add our own reality… have a lovely Sunday! Elizabeth
MARK…. here is something a new reality
“HOW TO BUILD A NEW UNIVERSE”
The Cognitions not only wipes away the confronted present time reality the person have: which is how the person sees, understandings their own universe but: THESE COGNITIONS ARE NOW THE NEW INSIGHT they are the FIRST VISIONS –IMAGEs and these VISIONS IMAGES UNDERSTANDINGS ARE THE VERY FIRST EXPERIENCES which establish the NEW FAUNDATION for THE NEW UNIVERSE the person created for Self and this New Universes founded and being established on the TRUTH.
Have you ever
Lost your way
Have mercy thinkin’ ’bout yesterday
I was barefoot
In the creek
Singin’ songs that came out of the street And my heart was free as a breeze
It was broken
Harsh words were spoken
There was nothing to rise above
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Have you ever
Rode weary all out of faith
Have you ever lost your way
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
Go where the love is
And you won’t be lost again
And acording to Estimates worth 7 Billion now, I was wrong. It seems COBs bank accounts are still expanding while membership is dwindling
Some things in life you except AS-IS, not everything has to be analyzed.
Silvia, not that Marijuana is legal in the state of Colorado, and can be purchased and consumed the same way one would consume a bag of potato chips, perhaps any org or mission staff in that state might a enjoy a drug crazed missed w/h arc break confrontation between themselves and their LEGAL new pc’s. (If I recall properly, people from the churches I went to couldn’t tell me enough times how unwelcome I was, and I don’t even drink or use drugs!). Maybe they should start applying some tech! 🙂
Those who question they are the ones who change the Universe.
These are very useful tools, Marty, these questions you have offered in this post. I have had a long and productive relationship with these questions, since I first encountered the Tao Te Ching many years ago.
That is the spirit in which I take this post — I see some folks have taken it as a quiz of sorts, or a challenge that requires them to state their POV and their commitment to or investment in that POV. But I think that reflects a limited understanding of questions per se. Not every question requires an answer. Sometimes a question is simply an invitation to contemplation, or a way to reframe our usual thinking, or refresh our basic ideas. Those are my favorite questions — the ones that cannot be disposed with in a facile manner. When a question really sparks your mind, inspires, or makes you squirm, that is a gift. Such a reaction is a sign that the question itself brings a charge that can stimulate growth — tacking an answer onto it collapses that charge. Instead, you can carry those questions with you, use them like tools to refine your understanding of yourself and your experience. The right question, at the right time, can function as a lense to bring things into focus, or as a blade to cut away the dross in our thinking.
The question of patience, of stillness, of allowing things to arise — that is one that makes me squirm. I am a very impatient person, by nature. I tend to push really hard to make things happen, grind away at problems to find a solution, and pursue learning and growth like they are running away from me at full speed. That’s my “default setting”. It has served me well in life — I have overcome a lot of barriers that stopped others, accomplished a lot, developed several useful skill sets, and learned an enormous amount about a wide array of subjects. I could stop there, and dismiss notions of waiting and stillness and letting things arise, and I’d be just fine. Certainly, the prevailing mindset in our culture would support me in that attitude.
However, I would miss out on an important lesson. One that I learn anew every day. I’m not sure I can articulate it well, because it’s still a work in progress, but I will try. I suppose I would simply say, I am learning that there are many kinds of clarity, and many ways to solve any given problem. I am able to attain certain kinds of clarity or resolution by force of will, and that is often enough for the situation at hand in the moment. But, there are kinds of clarity and resolution that I simply could not and did not experience until I tried answering those questions quoted above from the Tao, in my own daily life. The choice to be still, to sit with what is for a time, and see what arises — this is a way of making space for something new or different, that’s all. The option to do something to make things happen STILL REMAINS, I can go there at any time I choose. It is not an either/or thing.
It is good to know how to quiet the mind and be still when you need to, and to be experienced enough with that state to be able to recognize when the need for it arises. There is a kind of clarity or insight or resolution that only arises from a quiescent mind, and some situations demand that. If you do not know how to quiet your mind, that limits your ability to respond to life effectively. These questions from the Tao can function (and I think they were originally intended) as training tools, to help cultivate that skill. That has been my experience, anyway.
Another thought-provoking post. Thanks, Marty. 🙂
Brian, maybe it is just saying what it is saying and not saying something that you are complicating it to be.
My favorite definition of cognition is ‘The resolution of a confusion”. It is not the whole definition, but is my favorite part. The cognitions which I have the least favor for are the ones that one are led to finding.
Example: After listening to the lecture…..”So that’s why I started wearing glasses. It must have been the Life Continuum principal.” In which case it may or may not have been true, but the individual was lead to that conclusion.
I favor your cognitions, since I gather, from your posts, that you look and look and when enough data is discovered, the confusion resolves. Little false data is added to the mix.
I am beginning to see some answers to the questions you asked in your messages to me. will be communicating soon.
Val, I’ll admit it – I loved the video. 🙂
A quick google search shows there have definitely been brain studies that correlate brain responses with love – but I wouldn’t say that the brain can “account for love.” Here’s a quote:
“Researcher Helen Fisher has spent her academic life trying to figure out what’s going on in the brains of those who are in the heady, butterflies-in-the-stomach throes of passionate romantic love. Fisher has scanned the brains of young paramours and found that when they’re focusing on the object of their affection, a whole host of brain parts start lighting up.” http://www.positscience.com/brain-resources/brain-facts-myths/brain-in-love
LRH talked about such correlations too, but went beyond that in a lecture titled “Restoring the Ability to Love” 5 Nov 51:
“The mechanism called love is actually no different than any one of these other emotional setups. The mechanism is no different; the manifestation may be more cataclysmic, but it actually is simply another endocrine-system setup, and the difference is that it gets an enormous amount of propaganda.
“Here is the way the picture really looks: A postulate goes via the endocrine system into physical motion. The fellow makes a decision and to get it into physical motion he has to have this endocrine-system relay.
“You can’t change love with hypnosis, but you can sure change it with this processing.
“I am not advising you to go out and fall out of love. You can make the little clinical experiment of walking along the street and saying you are going to fall in love with somebody. If your emotions are at all free, it will work.
“We all agree that love is a wonderful thing and so is life. What is the difference? What, may I ask, is the difference between love and life?
“Now there is no more reason for you to avoid moonlight, no more reason for you to avoid these popular songs on the radio. You can go ahead and listen to them, because all you have to do is swamp up these old love affairs and then fall in love all over again.”
The complete transcript is here: http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Tapes&Lect/Tapes%20different%20format,%20doubled/Lectures%20Transcripts%20txt%20unsortiert/511105_B.txt
You could still argue that your Spirit or Thetan operates the “complex computer” that is the brain.
Just don’t discard research and brainfunction.
Take care of your MEST-body
Rice and beans is to make your brain function less well so you becaome a docile zombie
The Church of Scientology reminds me of:
“The thing that couldn’t die”
“Eight Buddhist adepts and 10 volunteers who had had a crash course in meditation engaged in the form of meditation called nonreferential compassion. In this state, the meditator focuses on unlimited compassion and loving kindness toward all living beings.
As the volunteers began meditating, one kind of brain wave grew exceptionally strong: gamma waves. These, scientists believe, are a signature of neuronal activity that knits together far-flung circuits — consciousness, in a sense. Gamma waves appear when the brain brings together different features of an object, such as look, feel, sound and other attributes that lead the brain to its aha moment of, yup, that’s an armadillo.”
CD….”’Rice and beans is to make your brain function less well so you becaome a docile zombie””
Did you come to conclusion your self by experiencing that condition or it is on assumption on your part or read that in some important scientific magazine like ladies home whatever or you have thrown that sentence in for fun? 🙂
you know if that would be the case half of the population on this planet would be brilliant have immeasurable IQ
Mark Hello to you ! The little false data is too which I have not found the answers yet but I am working on them to clear them away. Lately I been reading LRH’s old lectures from the early 50’s and found some of his reality differ from mine and interesting and worthwhile to confront.
Good Comment, thank you for taking the time to make a summary post of information.
Mark by now you know what we admire we usually get glued to. and that admiration is a heavy sticky glue which never melts away. in the past I have worked on the item ”eye’s” and why we are compelled to use it since it has very narrow limitation what the being can see. By now I do have good perception when not using the eyes, but as you know there are layers which can be taken off and new understanding surfaces. So here I was directing giving session to a Free Being and as went through the experiences he had with Looking, his first experience was looking through the Robots eyes-lenses and seeing a bright perfect picture he believed he has SEEN A VISION! He loved it admired the effect that he wanted it. Other beings were there and they too were admiring that bright vision. Here we are being stuck with looking with the eyes! Nothing like not having education how the Physical universe works, by not knowing we have set self up for lots of loses! So my dear look out for those lovely glue like admiration particles admiration will get you every time these particles: they shimmer, sparkle, have addictive nature since make one feel like being in heaven but that heaven is trap. As I said before Pleasure moments are truly addictive and they belong on the bottom of the tonescale. Sooo.What admiration do, how it is used, who use it, what and who do you admire, who or what has admired you? ETC…ETC…ETC. Love E.
After reading a bit. It sounds that the Emotion Love eluded him somehow.
It is like looking atit in this way makes it dissapear
I love rice and beans if made in a culinairy way.
I have come to understand it is not so good when the Church of Scientology makes it for you.
“We had a graph of money in, and it would be — they would show us, and they would say daily, “Ron Hubbard is not happy with the statistics. The hours are down.” When the stats were down — they called them stats for statistics — when the stats were down at the Fort Harrison, the highest staff — they were put on rice and beans. They would have this for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They were not allowed to eat any other food. When we went to the galley, we would have regular food, but the staff would have rice and beans. And this would stay until the stats went up again.”
That’s right Ron was not happy, And when Ron is not happy his slaves eat shitty food
What a hero
We could compare processing to meditation, but TRs are drills, even if there is case change. As far as I know, they are not to be done infinitely. One can do them lightly as an amateur auditor or heavily as a pro auditor, for the purpose of being able to use them throughout a long session.
I don’t have a very nice view of New Age either –specifically meditations with body energies, chakras etc. If those didn’t work out well for somebody it doesn’t mean that no meditation can work out. ‘Meditation’ is a very general term.
I myself ‘gained’ comfort in communication with TRs but I did them too much and they backfired. To be here and now or elsewhere and in another time are both abilities and are both good as abilities. But when an ability becomes a compulsion it cannot be good. The EP of SCN was not to be here and now. If it was, then it would finish with the Objectives. It’s just better than to compulsively think of stuff and thus not be able to be here and now. Freedom over MEST is not to be fixed in the here and in the now though.
Very interesting thanks for the info. but I stay with confrontation: direct question asked gives direct answers… No via. But this is my reality since it works for me. Still the yup thing remains the reality for the person who is doing the yup.
Hi CD. I thought one of the most interesting things was this:
“We all agree that love is a wonderful thing and so is life. What is the difference? What, may I ask, is the difference between love and life?”
Here’s an top athlete’s great answer to the blog post:
p.s. Nice ack, btw. 🙂
*The creative potential, imagination, will, and in my opinion all that which can make a person more than a walking animal are not to be found here and now. They are ‘inside’, but very figuratively. They are nowhere and they can be everywhere. They can be expressed and observed somewhere, sometime, but they don’t come from anywhere and from any time. That is Static. And that was just my opinion. I’m glad to have discovered that for myself, so I wanted to share that, because I too used to think that by being here and now all case would be dealt with. Here and now are case itself. Other Determinism=to consider oneself placed in space and time.
Now are you positive that LRH ordered those items to be served or this is a rumor. LRH is different person to every one and we see him from the point were is our reality. I don’t believe people should throw stones when they live in a glass house.
When Henry Mancini was dying of cancer he stated publicly somewhere, I forgot where. And I paraphrase:
“The only time I was not aware of the pain in my body from cancer was when I was composing.”
The very instant of creation, the very moment when melodies, words, images come, is the very same channel, through which, spiritual perception occurs.
The sages say; intuition alone, is the voice of God.
That is why it is important to keep the conscience clear. The conscience is an intuitive inner reference point that illuminates truth and intuitively distinguishes between good and bad.
When the conscience is mucked up by choosing to deny cosmic standards of decency because of ego, intuition suffers as well. The perception of truth becomes distorted. Lies can start looking like truth. The harming of others can find false justification.
“We are not moralists” LRH
What if morals, acknowledging something higher, was Ron’s philosophy?
What could have been the outcome?
Is it possible that Ron corrupted the intuition and conscience of his students by making power the goal.
Power is simply focused energy that causes a definite effect.
But if power is not governed by a healthy conscience, that power can become destructive to spiritual progress.
I couldn’t get a connection to the website… can you try again? Try a copy paste of the URL?
What a wonderful thing to do Windhorse..
I sincerely wish we Scientologists, Buddhists and good people in general were so thoughtful and caring about their fellow man/woman as you are. I am glad to have you as a friend.
Intuition or inspiration? Are the two one and the same?
“But if power is not governed by a healthy conscience, that power can become destructive to spiritual progress.”
I think LRH said as much (paraphrasing), that one could not be OT without being ethical. Of course, he contradicted those words with his own actions, well justified or not. I’m not sure – was the goal power, or control? Control is the theme of Scientology, it seems to me. Other, self and pan-determinism, 8-C, TRs, tone scale – all could be viewed as stemming from a fear of leaving other people and events uncontrolled. Of course that isn’t the only way to look at it, there are as many POV as people.
Art is wholesome. To quote Brené Brown, “you might not make a living, but you can make a life.”
Because this really is a beautiful planet.
You are not informed about Hubbard, the Sea Org or the Church of Scientology.
Every significant sociopathic and suppressive policy in Scientology was written and implemented by Hubbard first.
Please make an effort to find out what people in this blog are referring to, before attempting to shut them up.
A jailor to his son
Conan …..””You are not informed about Hubbard, the Sea Org or the Church of Scientology.””‘ Now that is your assumption … but how you generalize is the indicator where you are at…
CD… what ever you believe in that is your reality and no other person can give you that… And your own beliefs is the jail you have build for your self.
The project is researching and investigating science and technology to find a solution to a problem, I do not want to say what the problem is .
Conan… do you understand what I refer to here with this sentence? “I don’t believe people should throw stones when they live in a glass house.” Let me enlighten you just in case you don’t know.. When the person confronts the whole track and all what they have done not only the good but all the bad and the evil deeds toward others and the group, the mankind and the Universe By the time one confronts all that have about 4 hundred thousand but more likely more realizations will have the understanding that one should not be throwing stones judging others because have done equally bad or even worst than the person they are judging .
Have you erased all the shit you have piled on the universe? Have you made amends for your evil deeds? Did you give back equally all good you have received? If not than go and do so…Use the what you have learned you have the tools in your hands Free yourself!
Neither from itself nor from another.
Not from both.
Nor without a cause.
Does anything whatever, anywhere arise.
LOL .. and neither here or neither there!
You are always in present time. So, when you postulate you are creating your own ideal present time. It takes as long as it takes to make the postulate a reality in present time and this sometimes involves future time, that when you use it, becomes present time, so you are essentially in present time at all times when postulating and making the postulates stick. I am sure LRH has a lecture on this somewhere. He has a lecture on just about everything except how to mind his own $%*#&$( business sometimes! 🙂
Here you are again Brian, ranting as is the norm with you. The “Einstien” of Scientology I call you! 🙂 Is your entire family this way? A group of potential causative postulators? Or postulatees? 🙂 I am just kidding! 🙂
marildi, I didn’t watch the video. I was just commenting in contxt of the title of Marty’s topic of “Causation”. Some hold that the brain ’causes’ or is somehow the ‘source’ of emotions. I would say the brain may be involved in the manifestation of emotions sometimes, or mediates their physical expression. But ’causes’ not much more than my hand or foot ’causes’ anything. The brain is part of ‘mechanics’.
I’m right there with ya, Monte. It’s all about what Aldous Huxley called “The Perennial Philosophy”.
Intuition or inspiration? Good question LG. I’m still pondering that one.
Control/power: I think they may be the same. I can’t conceptualize one without the other.
I’m not opposed to power or control. As long as it is benevolent.
I believe people that have acted out bad control give power and control a bad name.
I listened to “The Role of Earth” today. I once again thought strongly that Ron was delusional.
I have listened to that tape many times. But the first time since late 70s.
My mind did such a flip. I use to believe every line he said. Bodies in pawn, implant stations on Mars and other weird ass freaks on Venus, Ron auditing a little girl and she remembers being “a kind of switch board operator” in an invader force and Ron knowing her commander.
My neurons made new synapses today listening to that tape.
I tried hard to put my mind back in that state when I believed everything Ron said.
It was difficult, because I have come so far, from the days of handing over my intellectual sovereignty to Ron.
If you just listen to his words, and reflect on what he is saying, things reveal themselves.
At least they do for me.
Mark… I have something on ILLUSION, of course it is in a cog from. send me your email, I write it up for you.. What we call here illusions’ are in reality Not illusions.
I judge you to be combative.
Over at Milestone 2, someone called Marty’s site a hate site. I got the impression no one disagreed with this persons assessment.
I guess we all have our words to describe how we perceive sacred cows being extruded through the burger maker; ranter 🙂
Some people want to share a beer and continue the talk with me.
Some people see it as rant, and negative.
Thanks for sharing yours Lawrence.
Glad to have you as a friend as well …
As for thoughtful and caring – I’ve learned that it takes constant practice and vigilance. My default mode is to slap someone up side the head and then stomp on their chest when they are on the ground … and walk away saying — “You just refuse to listen TO ME!!!”
Although we can agree with LRH, Buddha, and others that we are have a core nature which is basically good … it has been so tarnished over the eons and cemented over … it is only through constant practice/work/self-reflection (perhaps auditing, in part) that kindness becomes a daily way of life.
Rather than being theety-wheety — I’ve found it to be an very difficult way to view the world and others.
But I haven’t found any other way that makes sense
And logic is my middle name 🙂 ——- (just kidding)
Right back at ya
CD 🙂 and that is 100% !!!!!!!!!!
CD since I believe in that I do not put the blame on others that it is them who cause my whatever like being stupid if I eat rice and beans.. 🙂 it occludes abilities… now I am not knocking other persons believes because what is true for them that is fine by me.. I think that is allowing others reality to exist.
The only real mistake a person ever makes on their way out of the trap is to place their trust in a Church of Scientology. NEVER trust a Church of Scientology and your life will be happier. Dianetics books are pretty hard to find these days unless one is in an Org or a Mission. i was at a Mission a couple of years ago and the Mission Holder there told me he didn’t have the book I wanted to buy in stock, when he did actually. Never trust a Church of Scientology. Any new person that does read Dianetics for the first time MAY NOT have any other option but to trust an Org or Mission to answer his or her questions about the bank and things that happen after one goes Clear. And that is sad. 🙂
When believes flow into abuse my understanding stops
your understanding do not stops, never stops since you evaluate every fragments of information you perceive with every senses which are working fool blast every moment.
you just change consideration how you look at the incoming data.. in other words something’s are OK with you other things you reject since that is your reality that is bad and what is bad to you is outside of you comfort zone these are things you have charge on and find stimulative [unconfronted items,] not a pleasure moments I say..
There are millions of people beating each other daily physicaly and mentally, animal are beaten killed tortured daily for pleasure.. The abuse is endless on this planet.. you stand up for only one since that makes you feel good and belonging in the group and look smart. We all do things for self first of all and I don’t buy crap any more no matter how smart is sounds, just crap.
Science and technology.
Got a write-up on the origin and purpose of relativity, light speed, and the connection to space-time. There was intent behind it all.
Drop me a note. You may enjoy it.
“Mark by now you know what we admire we usually get glued to.”
Sorry about the comm lag. I have been doing some work, both physical and spiritual. I have seen and written about the good times and the accomplishments that really set one’s fixed opinions in stone. I have not explored the subject thoroughly and have not given it the proper grade weight that you have.
This is an enormously rich area of examination with many thousands of primary incidents to look at. These incidents predate and set the stage for all painful, uncomfortable, stressful incidents that many think of as the basis of their case. It also predates the entire idea, invention of overts.
For the last few months I have been working on the subject of authority. I have been very methodical and am taking my time, allowing the realizations to come easily. Letting the mud settle, in a structured manner.
This is my next subject to sort out. Admiration, love, accomplishment, exhilaration. I have recently discovered a fifth flow which applies on occasion. It is Others Self to Others Self. When I observed another in a self to self act and I formed an opinion from it, that incident can apply to a subject that I am examining. This has added clarity to several areas that I have looked at. Again, it is a flow to be checked and pursued when appropriate. All decisions once made, all opinions once gained, and then forgotten, are aberrative and sooner or later must be examined.
I will soon be making a list of thoughts, opinions, beliefs, sensations etc. connected to admiration, wins, love, accomplishments. It will expand greatly as soon as I start. Thank you so much for your help.
I’m in no hurry. I have gotten pretty good at being patient while maintaining diligence. Keeping it fun.
I am currently ‘Cleaning the Slate’ in a manner of speaking. What I have learned that, for me, the way to clean the slate is not to erase it, but to learn everything on it. This seems to be primarily your path as well.
To start off again with a clean past, yet with full useful knowledge. That is my understanding of the phrase “The way out is the way through”. It’s been fun so far.
Hi there Luis.
Actually, ‘clean that ashtray’ wasn’t a metaphor at all. It is a gradient. As with all gradients, it must be stepped on at the point where one is at. My thoughts are really simple.
If one has a dirty house, clean the house. If the house is clean, get work in order. If that is fine, resolve old ARC breaks, and then current breaks. You are right in that my intention was to suggest that one handle the obvious outpoints in ones life and then climb the gradient ladder from there.
Practically anything can be handled in this manner. We all know this, but a little reminder helps from time to time.
Sorry for the comm lag, I’ve been working. I shouldn’t keep my heart twin waiting.
Wrote a little bit about the ‘Fifth Flow’ which may come in handy from time to time. It is in a comment to Erzsebet. You may find it useful.
Yes, I saw it. Wow, that is interesting. Keep us posted. 😉
Mark.. yes that is my way to squeeze the last drop of knowledge, to understand to the last atom.. the why’s has to be answered. I will not let something go by because that something would be the very item which would push me back into MEST.. By now the desire to know is.. and nothing can stop that.. By now I don’t solo audit the self since self no longer exist. This is the universe. and this universe is a phenomenal place and I am privileged to work with its occupants.
Mark.. that 5th flow has been used by my auditors what others done to others and by me.It is the 4th flow in D. auditing. I never have sessions not looking at every flow. Since what others do to others, how others see others and what others believe what other think is really our own reality.. those thoughts are just made up thinks we put there and in reality we in reality never know what others ”think”. Thinking is a different action. they are made up from words, compiled whatever.. thinking is pure implanted material, left over old old manuals, wich were designed for robots, directions, how to do. recordings. They are by now just roll and roll unstoppable.. The problem is that by now these tapes have been cut, recut, added to. partially erased, over ridden, destroyed by some heavier inflow of energy, covered up, thousands of things happened to them but most of all they were counter postulated because they were not originally created by the persons whos head is filled with so naturally when the person has some kind of thoughts, unwanted and will want a different reality and will try best to over ride those counter productive believes running around his head. PS here I am just having a realization!
Marildi.. that 5th flow Marks mention is one of the 4th flows used in D auditing.
Luis… I hope you don’t mind if I too express my thoughts here.
By now after tens of thousands of sessions I have come to realization that each item each incident is a stepping stone and no matter how little importance they seem to have in life but without confronting those little meaningless things, in fact those meaningless things when confronted could be the basic-basic creations to our universe..
By now they have became unimportant because they were over-ridden by newer creations-incidents. The now unimportant has been once the most important item in our experience in our existence they were the NOW MOMENTS our life what ever it was than!
Now those moment of importance they are not even shadows yet they power still runs the machine called ”life”. One of the reason [there are many existing] for that because than we were powerful, we have not assigned that power, let it scatter. In other words we have not slide down on the shut yet. We have still believed in self.
Sorry again to have explained myself poorly.
4 flows: Self to self, others to self, self to others, others to others.
The 5th flow I was talking about that does not fall properly under these categories is Another Self to Self. Some may stretch the definition and place this under other to other, but it does not properly fit and can cause confusion.
As with other flows, it does not apply to all subjects, chains, incidents etc. When it applies, it applies.
Minor example: My brother knew that a particular type of roof vent drew more air out of the attic and kept the roof space cooler and dryer. He depended on this bit of data and ignored other techniques that improved roof performance. He had some correct data but it became a fixed opinion which blocked other data. I had a similar fixed opinion and while examining it, this popped up. Blew some confusion.
There have several much more significant instances.
This is an important technical advance for myself and possibly for others. It applies occasionally, but when it does, it can clarify a confusion, sticking point.
Please catch my reply to Erzsebet concerning the 5th flow. It is significant to me and possibly to others.
Mark.. give me the questions how you used them please! that would be the best and easiest to understand for me !
Fifth flow questions. Another’s Self to Self, acquired by you.
Erzsebet, I am ashamed to say, you had me stumped at first. I had to think about this and go through some of my notes.
It has changed with each instance, but the basics are this. First,
“Where (from whom) did I get that idea, intention, purpose.”
Locate the individual.
“What was he thinking/doing when he came up with…….”
Locate the instance, circumstance. (The actual location)
“What was I thinking when he came up with…..”
Recognize any confusions, gaps in applicable data.
If there is missing data about why he came up with that idea, intention, purpose, move to his exact location and look down his time track to find the missing data.
Recognize any admiration attached to this idea…….. What problem did it resolve/create. WHAT ACTION DID IT INITIATE that you admired, agreed with.
Recognize if this is the origin of this particular idea, intention, purpose.
If not, then Er/Sim.
If no E/S, then find additional admiration for this Idea,….etc. and resulting action.
No E/S, then find another instance when this idea, etc. was used.
Locate any admiration attached to this incident.
Touch on the original incident for additional data, admiration.
Locate the first origin of this idea, intention, purpose.
E/P; Realizing that you are fully willing to abandon or use this idea, intention, purpose.
This is only used when the first flows do not resolve a confusion on a purpose. It is an additional tool. As with all auditing, it is to be used with a complete willingness to abandon it, with no feeling of loss or wasted time. You must enjoy the search as itself. This procedure is incomplete and will change with each purpose searched. It applies when you admired and acquired a purpose, consideration, etc from another with little interaction. Otherwise, it would fall under ‘Others to Self’. There is always admiration attached to it. It is the admiration which makes it ‘Your purpose”. That it’s origin is with what was considered another individual at the time, is what hangs it up. It’s your purpose, but it’s not. THERE IS NO SOLID LINE BETWEEN ANY OF THE FLOWS. It is all related, but looking at things from these five angles (flows) assists one in locating these key incidents.
Always locate additional incidents relating to any auditing win until a complete understanding of how it affected you, and complete serenity and willingness on the subject is achieved. Any thoughts of “I’m glad I found that, I’ll never do that again.” must be released.
Hope this explains some of my work so far. It is fairly simple, and constantly evolving.
Mark thanks ……here is one for you.. hot off the press=cog. Scientists have the prove that everything no matter how it looks like what kind of material it is made of, how dense, or thin, made of flesh or solid as jade it is made out of the same energy.. .
So the question is what makes it solid.. if it is not solid in reality?
Well… the belief…the agreement by every person who resides on this Planet, we have on agreement and that agreement even we know it is on illusion but we keep that belief there solidly therefore we have solidity.
This proofs that large amount of agreement can keep the major untruth -fiction seems to be true, and persisting… yet it is only on illusion that solidity – hardness is real and it can resist other mater to enter into its body.
There is no solidity that concept is a consideration and it is on illusion and so is the rest which is built on that illusion.
Loved your post. You have learned so much, and I am learning. Much more to do.
The purpose of the 5th Flow that I laid out was an attempt to resolve and understand purposes, considerations, intentions, etc. THAT WERE GAINED FROM OTHERS. THERE ARE MANY, MANY OF THESE. Most can be resolved on the 4 flows, but there is not always a direct interaction which will come up when an intention is searched for using the other flows. These purposes of others are often observed by you, suggested to you as fact, taught to you by another, etc. These purposes are then solidified by your use and observation, whether true or not. Other observations, interactions, can conflict with or invalidate that purpose, but the purpose has already been gained. Ridges or GPMs are formed. Questions such as ‘Where did I get that purpose, idea, postulate, intention can sometimes bring the actual origin to light. Who did I get that…. from. Who gave me that ……
It is also on the 5th flow when a group is acting as a single entity, intention. ‘My teachers told me that……
Example: “My friend thinks that all green skinned people are crooked and stingy”. I then observed or was shown some crooked, stingy green skinned people. I decided he was correct. I later saw some honest, generous green skinned people. A confusion set in and was later forgotten. (Solidified) An actual incident.
My crude technique has resolved an acquired purpose a few times. It needs work to be understood and applicable to others.
PS: I need other peoples additional input on this important technical matter. I prefer a direct viewing of the exact occurrences which formed these considerations, rather than using a via such as spotting masses, energies, ridges, and as-ising them. This, in my experience produces a temporary release, but can be mocked up again at the drop of a hat. Full understanding produces full ‘erasure’.