Investigation Discovery

Last year I spent a day with Investigation Discovery (ID) filmmakers outlining the story of my involvement with scientology.   They took what they considered interesting and created a one hour piece from the several hour interview.   A preview can be seen at this link, Investigation Discovery.

ID’s Crime Feed blog also features an interview with me, Crime Feed link.

171 responses to “Investigation Discovery

  1. You and Claire told a touching tale. No doubt they tailored their selection of “bits” to focus on their theme and audience, still it was a gripping story well told and reveals the workings from the bait, to setting the hook, to the kill or for those of us more fortunate, the release. No telling how many people you have saved from the same fate by telling your story.

  2. I was pleasantly surprised by the piece. It was done far better than I originally thought when I saw the promo for it. I really like the way it went into detail about what got you into Scientology and your attempts to help your brother. So many people ask “why do these people get involved/stay in Scientology” and I think the time they took with your background really answered that question well and I think almost anyone with an ounce of empathy could relate to your story and why you got involved. It was done far better than the typical pieces on the channel (which I do watch fairly regularly because I love true crime docs) but you could tell the production crew really cared about your story and went to some length to tell it properly and with more integrity than usual.

    I LOVE they ended the show with your footage of the totally insane, pathetic and ridiculous, squirrel busters harassing you on your own front porch. The footage you took that day is probably the best one minute of film to accurately convey to the public everything they really need to know about the behavior Scientology and it’s true believers today.

  3. Is this piece available outside of the US? I get a ‘region blocked’ message when I click on the link 😦

  4. marie guerin

    It was intense. I have read your book and the images from the film were faithful. Bravo!
    They had to pick and choose obviously , but I liked their choices, it flowed well.

  5. Whew! Riveting. I thought it was better than the HBO doc. A much better translation of the big picture. I had to pause five times and take an intermission, smoke a cigarette. davidmiscavige@punishingbodies davidmioscavige@commevtestimony davidmiscavige@evilpurps davidmiscavige@unlawfulimprisonmentandfalsearrest davidmiscavige@criminal davidmiscavige@domesticterrorism squirrelbusters@punishingbodies squirrelbusters@domesticterrorism scnfinest@offthefuckinrailsloosecannonsbuyerbeware

  6. Watched the entire video. WOW WOW WOW!! Impact. Great Thanks to
    Marty and to Claire. Kudos to those who did the excellent job of filming.

    I was a paying public person until 1988, but I got less than 1% of what Marty and Claire got. Thank God for my training with Jesuits. I am going to donate to them.
    Jesuits taught me to look at religion from a scientific point of view. Having that background, I could see through Hubbard. Thank you Father Casey, my Theology teacher, for making me doubt the existence of God. Through doubt is formed the strongest faith and energy. Who else but Lucifer could create Scientology.

    People of Clearwater, Florida enjoy the truth from your Library.


  7. Hi there do you know how I would be able to watch this in the UK please? Love your blog Marty great work as inspirational

  8. Marty, there was a lot that got revealed and the story was excellent especially for the world of those who have never been in.
    It clearly showed your own personal struggle against the system and and how ultimately you developed character and your own morals.
    I have said this before, and I will say it again, you were the ONLY person at INT base who was kind to me in my dreaded held against will punishment, you listened, you took action, and I credit you with my being able to endure those 6 months of hell.
    Years later it was connecting with you and Mike Rinder that woke me up and brought me to my senses. I left the Church publicly on your blog.
    You have been a life saver to many, but especially to me.

  9. Home Run, no doubt. You did so well. Clare too. Poor Mike, and all you witnesses. You did what you had to do. Keep it up. As long as we the people keep learning specific incidents where there are people without passports who may or may not know English, and are enslaved, forced to hard labor, and bad food and hygiene is the norm, especially here in the states…how can we rest well? How can one remain silent? How can it remain legal, let alone subsidized?

  10. jakethegreat1

    That was an excellent program Marty! Kudo’s to you for it!

  11. Tom Gallagher

    “You have been a life saver to many, but especially to me.”


    There is no truer statement for me too……..

    Here’s a quote that sort of sums up my thoughts on this subject:

    “Secrecy is the keystone to all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy and censorship. When any government or church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, “This you may not read, this you must not know,” the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked in this fashion; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, whose mind is free. No, not the rack nor the atomic bomb, not anything. You can’t conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.”

    – Robert A. Heinlein

  12. Great job Marty. I hadn’t known the full story of your life and how you had gotten into Scientology. I have said before that watching your video in 2009 by the St. Petersburg Times is what opened my eyes and freed me from the hold that Scientology had had on my life. I have expanded my knowledge of the cult since that time and I am free and happy. I hope that a lot of people see this video and discover what the cult is really like.

  13. Nice acknowledgement Karen. As “dramatic” as it was portrayed, it wasn’t dramatic enough. I too was taken by some of the details exposed. It is for sure worth the watch.

  14. Loved it Marty – and Claire. You guys did great !! I didn’t remember Claire worked so closely with you… that was another fascination made real to the matrix.

    It takes a goddamn lot of soul searching to leave, and perhaps even more afterwards. For me it was after, I was already gone when I left.

    Following your personal and family ordeals these past few years I’m thankful I was just another punk to waste to them. I can’t imagine what you two have had to endure. All in the name of protecting a religion… crazy.


  15. His books expose much of the details Dean, but seeing it in on screen somehow brings it home.

  16. That was powerful. Good job Marty.

  17. Tom Gallagher
    Good quote.

  18. Thank you Marty for your love, honesty and integrity. With
    Love and Gratitude

  19. With rusted conceit the cult leader defiled the mind.
    And passed it to others with cocked fists in kind.
    With blind intuition for me there was no other shore.
    The clues in his works pointed to the wrong door.
    With his pregnant perception he led me astray.
    Until nothing about it finally got in the way.

  20. Great show Marti and Claire. I too had forgotten how closely Claire worked with you. I thought the ID Network did a great job bringing your book to life. It really created an impact. As a staff member in the church, I had the utmost respect for all Sea Org members and never dreamed that these atrocities could be occurring. After all, S.O. Members are some of the most ethical beings on the planet. Geez, head in the sand for too long. Your blog helped expose the truth to me too. Thank you!

  21. “To get into a scientology organization you are literally taking your life in your hands” (last words on this show from Marty (Mark)

    Nothing could be stated with more simplicity and more truth.

    I’ve been telling my never in friends that actually scientology is much much worse than you can even imagine. The HBO doc paints a picture. The WHOLE picture would be beyond what most people could bear to look at.

    And thus it’s being revealed in bits and pieces.

    Your story Mark always breaks my heart. Children of a suicide parent share a tragic bond. Sea Org members share a bond.

    These broken hearts heal slowly in my experience it is through sharing with others who care and listen. (2nd generation Sea Org members, or 2nd generation scientologists share special bonds as well)

    Again, thank you for caring and listening.


  22. I couldn’t help but wonder if the two years the Boss had you floating on the Freewinds, he was waiting for the statute of limitations to run out on any crimes he was a party to, and you were witness to.

  23. Great documentary.

    I was reading more on William James’, client centered therapy. His attitude with regard to ensuring that the therapist is so careful to not impinge his own belief system on his client. The purpose being to restore one’s own sense of self.

    The structure of scientology as an organization is completely antipathetic to that goal. Auditors are more and more indoctrinated into teaming up with the organization via registration and ethics to get PCs to conform to a mind set of subservience and compliance. Freedom of thought and conscience are really not compatible with the group Hubbard created and Miscavige has taken to a whole new level.

    The enigma: Much was created which can give a person relief and cognition. Just as much was created which can trap a person into a prison of belief. If it were not for the useful parts, none of this would have expanded beyond a handful of people. If it were not for the traps, it might have really become a useful contribution to society.

    I still believe that much of the tech has value, but only in the hands of those with no hidden agenda.

  24. +1 – great post.

  25. And this week, the news of Miscavige and Cruise nattering about John Travolta being “out ethics and causing out P.R.” is on the newsstands. Against the back drop of the worse P.R. ever in history for the Church, courtesy of David Miscavige. Nobody has bought more ill repute upon the Church of Scientology than Cruise and Miscavige. And, I just got the picture of them sitting in the back of some car nattering about John Travolta. OBLIVIOUS. OBLIVIOUS. The oblivious duo saving the planet!!!!! It is just hitting me how oblivious those two men are! While praising one another for being so “aware” and “spiritually supreme”! The blind leading the blind. And, the “Golden Age of Tech” is born from that! Seriously, it is now the Golden Age of P.R. Flaps, ill repute and ill will created for the Church. Watch Dave explain a 250K birthday party for Tom aboard Dave’s Yacht with tax exempt donations. Tom and Dave are on the lam and who is defending Scientology? John Travolta. The one who didn’t receive the Freedom Medal Award. Where is the Freedom Medal Winner when he is needed on the front lines? Where is the Church”leader” when he is needed on the front lines? What does the Freedom Medal Winner have to say about “The Hole”? The domestic terrorism and domestic abuse? At least John said something like , “it didn’t happen to me.” He never denied it. He isn’t cranking out false reports to the media. Can’t believe those two self righteous f*^&s were sitting in the back of a vehicle degrading on John Travolta.

    not aware of or not concerned about what is happening around one.
    synonyms:unaware of, unconscious of, heedless of, unmindful of, insensible of/to, unheeding of, ignorant of, incognizant of, blind to, deaf to, unsuspecting of, unobservant of; insensitive to, unconcerned with, impervious to, unaffected by, indifferent to; informalclueless
    “oblivious to the conversation around the table”

    John Travolta just moved to the top of the Org Board!

  26. I can’t get the page to work on the vid but read the interview. Your answers are very simple and sane ~ a breath of fresh air. I
    think the text should be saved in your article as we may lose the link someday. Your answers are enlightening.

  27. Thank you Mark. You will now be Mark to me now that I know how Marty came about.

    Ya know………………………………. sometimes when I look back on my life and am a bit freaked out at my past ignorant actions, I reset my thoughts of self blame and self hate with the knowledge that somewhere, somehow that ignorance was a natural doorway for me to enter, in order to learn some lesson.
    When I see it in that light the self flagellation ceases to a degree.

    Still, we carry what we do within ourselves, our karma, in order to find more tolerance and love. The dross, the self created mental solidity, is dissolved by neutralizing our reactions from self protection to self realization.

    Brian on his high horse speaks!! ha ha

    Have a great day Mark!!

  28. Investigation Discovery

  29. Cece, the link does work. You must watch it. it will actually help therapeutically for a 20 year Sea Org Vet like you.

  30. The entire OT materials is an impingement of a belief system. Straight up, flat out, end of story.

  31. Excellent ID show — thanks!

  32. Thanks for your concern Karen. I have to update to windows 8.1 (I have updates shut off) then switch to the desktop (like the earlier versions of windows). Working on it.
    I read everything Marty writes since mid 2009 and his recommended books. I’m at tail end of Age of Reason now ~ this belongs in High School education.
    Here are my notes from today: I just realized that with-out the advent of disconnection I’ve experienced, I would likely not yet be taking an un-biased view of LRH and his writings. So that makes this disconnection pain so much easier to bear as it has (out of necessity) brought me more understanding.

  33. Marty, The video had me on the edge of my seat! I thought they did a great job of making the video, with really good actors and you and Claire did a great job. I guess the best part is knowing that you and Claire and other x-SO heroes are doing well now. And another good part was knowing about how you set out hitch-hiking to see the world when you where young. I read more in detail about that when you wrote your books in 2012 and that was real to me; as in 1970 I set out in my 1965 VW Camper Van from Atlanta to Los Angeles and I picked up every hitch-hiker I saw for the entire summer that I bummed around making friends. I hit upon LRH’s books that way when I was walking down Sunset Strip and a very pretty girl got me to buy Dianetics. I’m fully against the church now but I still do like a lot that LRH wrote and spoke about. I’m still sorting through my thoughts on this and I also like what LDW wrote above.

  34. And my apologies to COB as I did use one semicolon in my story above.

  35. You have some great stories too Al.

  36. Meanwhile, SECOND by SECOND rolls by, amid his very public comm ev, airing out his dirty laundry and crimes, and he hides. He does not step forward and offer to step down. He is clearly willing to take the whole Church and every Scientologist down with him. This, in itself, is a whole other revelation Scientologists are forced to digest.

  37. And, mean while why they have to witness this, they also have to watch him blow through millions in Church reserves trying to make nothing out of the wogs putting ethics in on the Sea Org.

  38. Mary Sue Hubbard stepped down after her scandal. And she was covering other people’s asses. Mainly Hubbard’s! That scandal was NOTHING compared to the one Miscavige has bought onto the Church! Mary Sue wasn’t bitch slapping the staff! Locking people up in trainers on some squirrel ethics program! Miscavige worked hard to see she was put in the read view mirror and bragged about the purge. Now he’s sitting up in Sea Org birthing with this scandal spread planet wide and what is he doing? Hiding behind Karen Pouw!

  39. Spending million of Church dollars to ser fac on the people busting him through the media! And, let’s face it. After the testimony…..who thinks that guy is even a clear? He could have a fight in a room by himself!

  40. 🙂

  41. Money talks in Clearwater. Even the Mayor is pleased with Scientology after
    Travolta raised $50,000 for kids in the arts. The best promo for Scientology in Clearwater in decades.

  42. one of those who see

    Just watched the whole show. Absolutely riveting! Thank you once again for shining a light on the scene. You have amazing courage and ability to confront. Have you watched The Last Samurai lately? It’s my favorite Tom Cruise movie. Near the end, Katsumoto says to Algren “you have your honor again…”

  43. Excellent. I haven’t seen the HBO documentary but did read the book on which it is based. So I’m sure that there won’t be anything new in that documentary. This one really explains how you got involved and makes it easier for people to understand the way people are manipulated.

  44. Great photo! Nice article. I am so glad to see he is out and working it for the benefit of children.

    While the evil cult leader continues to fester in malicious false reports sent out in some woman’s name.

    Thinking of raising hope among the beaten down Scientology community (thanks to Dave) by starting a petition for John Travolta to take over the Church. If he did nothing but lay in bed all day and tell people to just get on with it, it would be such an improvement over existing conditions they just might survive.

  45. Moneca Ryane

    Oh bummer…. couldn’t view. But that’s OK ….. I know just imagine the worst you can and the church & DM have meted it all out.
    Brave on, Marty! The day of reckoning for DM & the church us coming.

  46. Oracle,
    Travolta would make a great Church leader. I live about 40 miles from the Flag Land Base and I have read about the Mayor of Clearwater, Critekos. I even sent him and e-mail which he never responded to. I know he is wanting to cooperate with Scientology. There is a new Aquarium proposed on the land next to the Ft. Harrison parking lot. COS vehemently objects. Now Travolta comes to town and the Mayor goes GA GA.
    I donated some books to the Clearwater Public Library because I read about a lot of people in Clearwater who just want to know more about the religion called Scientology. Clearwater residents watch the streets and see a few SO especially on Saturday mornings. But it really all comes down to the money. The Aquarium will feature the Dolphin with the man-made tail. The press could not believe that Scientology cared more about their traffic than the handicapped dolphin. The Mayor does not understand that, if the Aquarium is built, Scientology will eventually start to body-route even if they call in the missions.
    Travolta would be in a power struggle from the start. I feel sorry for John despite his status as a celebrity. He has no idea what he is in. As a celebrity, he just got pampered too much.

  47. I kept up to date on the Aquarium situation. Church gained a lot of new enemies.

    I think JT is over estimated and under estimated at the same time. Doubt he has a lot of influence on other men. And he doesn’t even try.

    He does have an extraordinary aura that is kind of the opposite of impinging. He pulls. Magnetic.

  48. Noticed an interesting phenomenon lately.
    I watch TV from time to time. Usually when I’m winding down from something or when I am at a stopping point from something.

    Most is dribble or what some call entheta, but occasionally I notice that a writer has noticed or stumbled upon some piece of truth in the area of human relations. Often they don’t know what to do with that bit of truth, but sometimes they do. Simple common sense is usually the right answer.

    But the interesting part is that when I see someone follow a purpose on a drama or even comedy show, it reminds me of past instances when someone was actually following that purpose unknowingly. That reminds me of when someone came up with that purpose for the first time. At that moment, that intention dissolves for me. I can then follow or not follow that intention, according to choice and current data.

    It is as though I am solo auditing all day, every day. But it’s not like an obsession. I recognize something, I see the source, I smile and I go on. Simple. Quick. Usually in a couple of seconds. Quite enjoyable.

    This is also true for current events. DM is following several purposes and intentions that have a source. These intentions are false and destructive and quite harmful for others and eventually for himself. He also triggers and justifies harmful purposes in others. They are following purposes that have come into play. That doesn’t make them OK by any stretch. Their actions must be exposed and held in check. But it does give me clarity as to why people do the things they do and to recognize harmful intentions when I see them and to warn others about them.

    Has saved myself and a lot of others around me a lot of trouble.

    The point here is not that I have become so friggin smart. It is that I have found a few things out and there is a lot to come. That with a little work, others will discover things that I have not, and I can learn from them. There is a lot I don’t know and I will need your help in the future. There are a lot of DMs out there and it will take a lot to keep them all in check.

  49. On occasion I engage in a bit of self inquiry as to why I continue to follow this blog and thereby maintain a small aspect of attention on the subject of scientology. Then when I watch the kind of story I just watched I am reminded of the answer that I continue to receive. Even though it seems that I have forgiven everything that I can possibly forgive with regards to scientology, there continues to be deep grievances against some aspect of scientology that I have been unconsciously holding that get pushed up into consciousness to be released. This is a good thing.

    Note: I am a student of A Course in Miracles (ACIM) in which the illusion of forgiveness is a core theme. Practicing forgiveness in the manner the course teaches makes it the one illusion that does not breed other illusions. Here’s a decent definition:

  50. I liked that.

  51. No It is available outside the US

  52. Marty thank you for participating and weed out scientology even with these non informed journalists.

  53. When you got rid of scientology(Hubbard)


    “When Anonymous were protesting at the Complex back in 2008 Ken Moxon was being chauferred around in LAPD vehicles watching the protesters. This went on for several hours.”

  55. singanddanceall

    when you get done with “The Age of Reason”

    read this:

    May your eyes be forever open. Note timelines.

  56. Karen you are the best. Why? Long before I ever even considered that there could be a life for anyone outside of an acquaintance with an org. I saw a picture of Marty (more than one) and I am going to be honest with my original impression of him “That guy is the best looking Sea Org member I have ever seen. I will bet that he would be able to understand what I mean by the Church of Scientology is a very criminal place out to get rid of sources of the truth about them like myself”. A different kind of hell than what you went through but a living hell just the same. Before Marty there was “that Class XII girl from Flag, she is so smart” and one of the foxiest looking women I have ever seen pictures of in recent time. Even though those pictures were from years ago, few women can come close. And I mean FOX. So seeing as how you and Marty can’t get married, you can be in love with me! 🙂 And I am all vegetarian. 🙂

  57. christianscientology

    Hi Monte

    I also am a student of ACIM, however unlike most ACIM students, find no conflict between The Bible and ACIM. After my time in Scientology I became a “born again” Christian and visited/joined several Christian organisations but always the stumbling block was my refusal to renounce Scientology. Finally I encountered a group called the “Community of Celebration” and when I explained that I could not renounce Scientology, this lady said “of course you can’t it is part of you”. It was as if a huge burden had been lifted off me. On my way home it suddenly occurred to me (cognition) that I loved Scientologists and with that realisation came the awareness that “I had been hurt by Scientologists”, then I knew what I had to do re my new found faith in God through Jesus. I had to forgive them.

    I sincerely believe that forgiveness is just lip service until one has faced the hurt. Which makes sense in terms of “Engram running” to view AS-IS causes the vanishment of the ISNESS.

    Love with ARC

  58. christianscientology

    Hi Marty

    I have just watched the video “Dangerous Persuasions” and I couldn’t help noticing the similarity between how you got into Scientology and my own story.

    In my case it was an ex-girlfriend who had ended up taking an overdose, and while I was figuring out why anyone would want to take their own life I was introduced to a Scientologist (Peter Goodwin) at a party. He sold me the book “This is Life, an introduction to Scientology” by Reg Sharpe. I read it and was hooked. This I thought could sort out my ex-girlfriend who was now in a mental institution. Back in the ‘60’s’ in England if you attempted to take your own life you could end up being sectioned.

    What I am interest to ask you is “if that policy of not accepting psychiatric cases for auditing had not been there, do you think your brother could have been helped with the Scientology technology? I pick up that back then you had no “faith” in the psychiatric approach to mental illness, and believed that Scientology could help your brother.

    What I am trying to say is, if you could meet your brother now how would you go about helping him. If not with the technology of Scientology, then what alternative is there?

    I really would appreciate your input regarding this point.

    Love with understanding

  59. Thank you for coming forward, its incredibly brave of you. It Might be hard for you now, but you are doing the right Thing. On behalf of all humans, Thank you

  60. Great story and narration!

  61. I believe in you Marty Rathbun.

  62. Still here bro, I may work in mysterious ways.

  63. I have so much respect for you for holding your shiy together:

  64. I have asperger and ADHD, I could be mistaken for a Psychopath

  65. From Terril Park who lives in the U.K.:

    Marty has 7 pages in Times Magazine of 25/4 2015

    Quite an in depth interview/article. Details of Tapping Kidman’s phones,
    also relations of TC with Mimi Rogers and Nazerim Bonardi, and
    Penelope Cruz and how CO$ interfered with such relations. Details of
    Astra Woodcrafts time in CO$ and the “Hole” and “Going Clear”.

    For most here there is no new info but this is not the National Enquirer
    but one of most prestigious UK newspapers.…#commentsStart

  66. all is learning

    yet all is learning with the fool as king
    as karma is karma ourselves we bring
    what wrongness resolves with egoic fools
    the mirror is cleansed the fool was a tool

  67. Michelle Miller

    Mark, you and Claire are brave, inspiring people. I just watched the ID program. I hope you’re aware of the many people you are touching (in and out of Scientology) with your courageous voice and story. I want you to know that there are normal, everyday people out here following your story, concerned about all ex-Scientologists who are being harassed by the goon squad and praying for your safety and protection. May God bless you. Michelle Miller
    Cincinnati, Ohio

  68. Hello Mark, I am here to inform you about a critical vulnerability in WordPress:
    Knowing that your blog is pretty high profile, I suggest you follow the advice and disable comments for the time being, until this issue is resolved.

  69. Seems to have been resolved. Please disregard last comment and moderate away.

  70. Very nice Brian.
    I like that!

  71. Burning embers sooth the viper’s open fleshy bite
    Beguiled is the fool by the gang raiding robbers might.

  72. On the edge of my seat waiting for the reports of how David Miscavige and the volunteer minsters bought peace hope and order to the city of Baltimore with Way to Happiness.

  73. Just noticed there isn’t a Church of Scientology in Baltimore,or Maryland. I have arranged for the VM’s to stay at the Basilica of the Assumption Catholic Church 409 Cathedral St, Baltimore, MD 21201, When they arrive in the City. Dave will need to bring his own tanning bed, chef,wardrobe consultant and make up artist.

  74. Have you ever been in this position ?

  75. I am still here to kick your ass if necarcerry.

  76. Marty Rathbun, I am still here after all these years:

  77. I just watched the HBO documentary. If anyone can watch it without coming away with the belief that the cult of scientology is an evil, manipulative and hateful monstrosity, I gotta believe that they are high (on bad stuff). Good on you, Marty.

  78. Thetan Place

    They got an actor who could be your son to play young you. Very cool.

  79. Thetan Place

    On the other hand — they managed to hire an big, imposing actor to play Miscavige. I’ve never seen you in person, but somehow I doubt he towers over you; probably the other way around. Still, it was a very well-done episode. My condolences for the loss of your brother. That part was painful to view.

  80. Hey Pip! Always good to hear from you. You wrote…

    “I sincerely believe that forgiveness is just lip service until one has faced the hurt. Which makes sense in terms of “Engram running” to view AS-IS causes the vanishment of the ISNESS.”

    As I read what you wrote I was reminded of a section (V) in Chapter 11 of ACIM (The Dynamics of the Ego) … “No one can escape from illusions unless he looks at them, for not looking is the way they are protected”

    Pip, I recently came across an ACIM site called Circle of Atonement that I have found to be an incredible resource for in depth exploration, interpretation and wonderings about the many intricacies of course teachings. Personally, I have found the commentaries and articles to be very well written and incredibly stirring yet practical. Also, they’ve got a very good glossary and search engine. You might want to check this site out Pip. Here’s the link:

    ps. currently I’m reading an interesting article that’s using material from Elaine Pagel’s book, Beyond Belief to address how ACIM is evolving but I’m finding what is being said to be very insightful in looking at the evolution of CoS.

  81. Nuke this poast please

  82. Rivveting aint it

  83. You can try following the tao.

    But Miscavige does not operate like that



  84. My Bro, who I will protect

  85. I eat the burning coals of my causation
    I smelt the gold from karmic ore
    I embrace a centuried suffering
    Only to find light at my core

    Joy joy joy! Thou art my God
    I float on the sea of bliss

    Thank you suffering!
    Thank you darkness!

    Through my embracing you
    I fled from you

    And I was led to the Ever Attractive Within-ness
    The source of All
    The Love of All
    The All of All

    Oh Omnipresent Intelligence
    Coalescing all atoms
    Into varied Infinitude
    Within Thy Fulcrum
    I am ever at Peace.
    My smile forever
    For my smile does not come…….

    From names and form

    It comes from the Eternal Bubble of Laughter

    Tat Tvam Asi………Thou Art That

  86. On a cool, secluded mountain lake swims the majestic swan
    A witness to arising bright sunlight in the morning dawn.

    The sage on winged bird appears from changes seen in place
    And flies to a palace of silver and gold with windows made of lace.

    Now the view unfolds in ordered array the false leader’s play.
    But the sage returns to the lake where only one is on display.

  87. My friend Marty Rathbun always follows the truth since he is free from Scientology (Free from religion like the founding fatrhers envisioned it)

  88. a fidddleedee and a hidee ho

    The Path of Buddha is the way to go!


  89. The Oracle

    You threw the best party EVER on this blog Marty. The party we wished we had but never could. The party we all needed but never got.

    THANKS for the good times we always knew were possible. Socially, with the Scientology, I think we had our best pleasure moments here exchanging ideas and words and ideas. All the things we wanted to say, you made a way for us to say them.

    Best party EVER! I know it didn’t go this way for everyone, but everything I learned,thought, experienced, imagined, unfolded in a beautiful way when we took in into Funky Town. BOOM!

    What a rocket ride to be on your side! Cheers to both of you, you made us dance and sing and laugh again! Thanks for all of the great memories!

    And, thanks for turning us on to all the great music, especially Van Morrison!

  90. The Oracle

    You made us right,for not surrendering.

  91. The Oracle

    Those people in the Sea Org under Miscavige. You can dress them up like soldiers, but you can’t take them outside. Seriously. That’s pathetic. Those aren’t soldiers. Those aren’t “loyal officers”. Those people lay down and melt like ice cream on a hot summer day. Compliant. That’s not soldier material. Wrong uniforms and wrong items. It is not a soldier’s purpose to be compliant. Demanding compliance just invalidates the f*&k out of a good soldier. A good soldier does not comply, he bypasses. We bypassed the f*&k out of David Miscavige! He’s got tire tracks all over his back and he still shows up at events as narrator. He’s an entertainer. And we, out here, we did not surrender.

    And you proved to everybody, ………….. hey, it’s not the way. Wearen’t refugees. Not under HIS command!

  92. The Oracle

  93. May rain fall in due time,
    May there be a rich harvest,
    May the world be prosperous,
    May the government be righteous.
    -Buddhist Meditation Devotions

    [Devo vassatu kalena
    Sassa-sampatti hotu ca
    Phito bhavatu loko ca
    Raja bhavatu dhammiko.
    Pali translation.]

  94. We gathered generation of sages
    Like homing pigeons we fly
    We turn our learning pages
    The philosopher’s cast is dyed

    When fools as king
    False knowledge brings
    We learn to break the cast

    These training wheels
    Have served their time

    Sails now adorn the mast

    The rudder we
    Direction free
    We hither to or yarn

    Come! Let us take what we have learned and truly become free!!
    That spark in the heart of spirit growth
    Is the voice of the Dharmic Truth

    Melt oh melt
    These solidified forms of thought

    L Ron Hubbard was training wheels. It’s time to be free!!!!!!

  95. Lovely poem, Brian

  96. Terril Park

    An example of a good Soldier [ a US navy Commander.]
    Cmander Evens said
    “This is going to be a fighting ship. I intend to go in harm’s way, and anyone who doesn’t want to go along had better get off right now.”[1]

    He then on his own initiative in a small destroyer attacked in effect the entire Japanese Navy,
    including the most powerful battleship ever built, Yamato with 18inch guns,

    The Japanese navy retreated and never was thereafter an effective fighting force.
    and they retreated.

  97. Thank you my dear Marildi
    Warm Regards,

  98. The Oracle

    Wow! This would make a great movie! Thanks for sharing the story!

  99. Very nice, Brian I like it especially the “training wheels”

    “The path is called ‘straight’,”
    ‘Without fear’ is the destination;
    The carriage is called ‘silent,’
    Conscience is the rails and
    Mindfulness the upholstery,
    The teaching of the Buddha is the driver, and
    Right view runs ahead of it.”
    – Bhavana(mental cultivation) Devotions

  100. Marty Ratbun, we have great artists in our live

  101. My bro Marty Rathbun will check me out whrn I am under fire
    I am inclined to tell . oh millitary stuff

  102. Turks killed Armenians

  103. Stop the Craziness

    I have never had any dealings with Scientology or Scientologists. I recently watched ‘Going Clear’. Then I read the book. Then I watched a bunch of YouTube videos/Dangerous Persuasions/ID, etc… I’m currently reading ‘Bald-Faced Messiah’. Wow. Scary, horrid stuff. I am appalled that this kind of thing happens. And from a supposed ‘spiritual’ organization. Truly sad. Scientology is a terrorist organization. The Mob. Extortion, slavery. Just sick. It reminds me of something out of the ‘Wizard of Oz’.. (don’t look behind the curtain!– ie: don’t read anything on the internet, etc..) What an easy (and shameful) way to brainwash and use good-hearted people. So much evil in this world under the guise of ‘religion’. Just shameful. I’ve dealt with a psychopath or two, but nothing on the scale of this. Scientology (and other cults) are really quite the set up for sadistic psychopathic ‘leaders’.

    Best wishes to all of you recovering from such horrific lies and manipulation.

  104. Great comment and acknowledgement. Party on Oracle.

  105. Marty, why did you put out the “31 reasons” of your front page? It was not the basic why? Miscavige is no longer the main ennemy now? He must like it very much as no scientologist in the church will ever go in the independant field because of you.

  106. Such elegant simplicity and kindness is this message you posted here George. Very beautiful four lines.

    “You may control a mad elephant;
    You may shut the mouth of the bear and the tiger;
    Ride the lion and play with the cobra;
    By alchemy you may learn your livelihood;
    You may wander through the universe incognito;
    Make vassals of the gods; be ever youthful;
    You may walk in water and live in fire;
    But control of the mind is better and more difficult.”
    ― Paramahansa Yogananda, Autobiography of a Yogi

  107. Terril Park

    There is an effort to get a film made. The battle for Leyte Gulf is the largest navcal battle in history. Technically it was made up of 5 battles.

    Quite a lot of documentary footage on u-tube.

  108. Marty, I left the church because of your analyse and witness of Miscavige abuse. I observed it too, it was true for me. The 31 points where true. Many people left the church and the fascist power of Miscavige. Now, those in, will never go out. You are not there to repair them, nor welcome them. What was making this revolution was the fact that one could still practice scientology and be out of the church. Now there are little groups, Milestone One etc… Where is the team of 2010? Jim Logan, Steve Hall, etc…?
    And this is serving Miscavige. Those who were fighting Miscavige are now after Hubbard. The result is simple : they stay on the church. To some degree, to remove the 31 points is really to assist Miscavige. I don’t understand.

  109. The Oracle

    “no scientologist in the church will ever go in the independant field because of you.”

    False report. Quite the opposite. Before Marty came on the scene people were hiding in closets to audit. Now people are free to practice world wide. I have no idea who you are or why you have come to this conclusion but you are so out of the loop it isn’t even funny. Everyone in the Independent movement set up to practice is doing so because Marty took the heat. He shifted this entire game. No,not alone. But damn your comment is so assed backwards …………

  110. The Oracle

    “Marty, I left the church because of your analyse and witness of Miscavige abuse.” No, you had your own issues or you would not have been interested in anything Marty had to say.

    “Now, those in, will never go out.” You have some interesting ideas about time and eternity.

    “Where is the team of 2010? Jim Logan, Steve Hall, etc…?” Marty has no obligations to be a babysitter of these people and report their whereabouts to you. Team of 2010? You seem to think someone owes you something. Why is that? Do you have money on account with any of these people?

  111. The Oracle

    The cram officers hat checksheet (Logan’s claim to fame) is shorter than the Big League Sales checksheet.

  112. The Oracle

    Pull yourself together. It is up to YOU. You ain’t been around.

  113. Interested

    Does anyone know how I can see this documentary. Please. I have tried every way I can think of. Has it been put on YouTube or Vimeo. I am in England and it refuses to let me see anything it simply states it is no longer available. Thanks

  114. Interesting, Brian. I looked up Parama in Pali a few days ago and it means the highest doctrine. Paramahansa Yoganandya died March 7th, 1952 in Los Angeles. Great Yogi he was.

    Resting on the double repose of error and sense heaps
    The immovable stone pillar static like a monkey leaps.

  115. Terril Park

    It will be shown in central London on 12 june.

  116. Hello Oracle!
    What I just said is that the position of Marty now doesn’t encline people to leave the church. Everything has a stat wether we want it or not. While Marty was still pro Hubbard and anti Miscavige, there was a lot of “coming out”. It actually was a successfull action the “31 factors”, it was raising the number of people leaving the church.
    Now to some degree, Miscavige is proven right on this point : Marty is anti Hubbard or almost. So he is “dead agented” regarding people in the church. Anti-scientology are not a problem for “COB”, only people delivering scientology out of the church and exposing his crimes. He couldn’t care less to have ex scientologists criticizing Hubbard. Actually antiscientologists raise IAS stats giving something to sell to IAS vampires and putting member togather to defend the fort.
    I’m not attacking Marty, he has the right of his own opinion. I’m just saying that the stats crashed. Look at the indy 500, stat down…

  117. Interested

    Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I was not talking about “going clear”, which I hope to go to, but the ID one with Marty. They show a short clip, but the actual programme is ” no longer available” on my iPad. it looks really great.

  118. The Oracle

  119. The Oracle

    So….you wanted stats?

  120. The Oracle

    You can’t always get what you want. Surely, you knew that before you ever heard of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, or Marty Rathbun? There is a whole lotta people out here that seem to have only hit that reality after getting involved with Scientology! There are SO MANY people out here that NEVER EVER EVER EVER had a disappointment before they heard of Scientolgoy or Marty Rathbun!

  121. The Oracle

    I am here at the demonstration, to get my fair share of abuse. I took one hell of an ass whipping. From the “well meaning” people, mislead and, …..well whatever. It was open season for a minute. No scarcity of hate and resentment out here.


    Well done Sir on the relentless selfreflection in the Scientology documentary.


  123. Hello Oracle!
    I don’t understand what actually mean. I’m just saying that the stat of people leaving the church is down. For proof the “indy 500 which” is stalled.
    And i think the anti Hubbard viewpoint is keeping members in the church despite Miscavige’s abuse.

  124. Mark C. Rathbun

    Please discontinue falsely describing me as ‘anti’ anything.

  125. SayNoToCults

    Interested,I found the documentary here:
    It’s well worth a watch. Mark, I’m sorry for the tragic losses in your life.

    I really feel for all those who are mislead into abusive organizations such as Scientology. They are designed to draw in and use well-meaning people who are subsequently brain-washed. While it’s quite obvious that Miscaviage is a power-hungry out-of-control psychopath, from what I have read, Hubbard wasn’t much better. The abusive, dystopian, paranoid structure was intentionally built into his organization (I refuse to call Scientology a ‘church’) for the sake of power and control (and money). It’s like watching a real life ‘Lord of the Flies’.

  126. Mark C. Rathbun

    Thanks, link replaced.

  127. Terril Park

    I have 1500 on my 2 FZ Yahoo forums. And most activity now is on facebook groups. There are probably more scientologists outside the church now than in. Marty’s arrival encouraged many more to be active on the net and elsewhere.

  128. Tom Gallagher

    “When you’ve crawled through the darkness, the light is so much more glorious.” ― Rita Stradling, The Lie Spinners

  129. Yes Marty, I read your article “good versus evil”, it’s true you are not an anti, and I really liked what you said and I share it. But for people in the church they still want the tech, like on the begining of the “revolution” in 2009, and seing that Hubbard is criticised makes Miscavige right. It’s proving his point, that we are all SPs around, therefore the stat of people leaving the church seems to go down. And the way to get rid of Miscavige is to get him to loose support.

  130. The Oracle

    I forgot about the Indie 500 list. I don’t think anyone has pushed that for years. I personally have no goals or purposes to push people out of the Church. I don’t recall Marty ever saying that was his mission either. Go to the person who mocked up the Indie 500 list and interrogate them, if this is an issue for you.

  131. Thanks for the link. Some great conversations at the bottom.

  132. The Oracle

    The Scientology Organization will not survive. Not because of L. Ron Hubbard. Not because of David Miscavige. Because of any one person. But because of the accumulative lack of mercy, lack of kindness, lack of compassion, lack of decency within that spiritually bankrupt community. When you can not care about the person in front of you, you are not going to be an asset in any group and contribute to it’s survive. Not even a simple marriage of two. You look at the conversations going back and forth in this arena. The mean spirited purposes and comments, and it is very to easy that the group called Scientology will not survive. In fact, your comments here have been mean spirited. Demanding statistics from Marty for a program he never invented or started, is mean spirited. Holding him accountable for your decisions is a lie I don’t think you even tell yourself. But you publish it here. And you are not alone in this kind of mean spirited social intercourse. The only true religious freedom in this arena is the freedom Marty created by encouraging people to think and act for themselves. I paused for a minute to consider whether Scientology actually makes people mean spirited. As, even after they leave the group there is a viciousness that exudes in their social intercourse. As Marty described it, a vortex of hate. But I have seen well meaning and compassionate people use their experiences and knowledge to help others through kindful purposes innate to their basic purpose, to lift others up. And Marty himself has done that. That you appear here and try to take that away from our experiences, I see as a kind of spiritual vandalism. The religious groups that survive out here, are the ones that practice mercy, kindness and compassion towards their fellow man. There is no grade or release state on the “bridge” that promises to create or bring into being a caring, kind or compassionate person that would be an asset as a friend. That can not be bought. Or even created, even by Scientology.

  133. The Oracle

    I guess one lesson people can take away from Scientology, is, what good is it to be cause over matter energy space and time, when nobody can tolerate being in the same space with you? Or even survive in your presence.

  134. Mark C. Rathbun

    I think you’d do better to learn the art of letting go.

  135. I understand, and I let go and all. And I’m not a mean spirited person, I just say that the stat is down, people are no longer leaving the church like they did in 2009, 2010. And that’s bad for them.
    One cannot let go and free Miscavige. It’s not to be mean than to hope he’ll be dismissed. At this point he continues to ruin people, and to destroy anything decent in scientology. And that’s a pity because auditing can help if done with the real intention to help the PC/patient, call it whatever….

  136. The Oracle

  137. The Oracle

    Scientology are sugar deficient.

  138. Got nobody wanting them.

  139. I can’t get sugar honey honey out of my head. Another one from Scott Bradlee’s living room might help me:

  140. It was a great interview and a great episode. Thanks for saying what you said.

  141. Para, the root, is ancient Sanskrit. It means beyond or more. Our words Paramedic and those sort of words have there etymology in para.

    Hansa means swan. So the name means Supreme Swan. It’s analogy is that a swan can be in the water and the water rolls of it’s feathers. The totally liberated master can be in the material world or any one for that matter and not be caught in it.

    It’s what Ron read about in the Vedas and was influenced by Crowley in a watered down version, then created a church around the promised goal of complete liberation.

  142. The Oracle

    Loved it! Very fresh!

  143. tarasmith0817

    This really is off subject, but I just got around to watching Going Clear.
    I found your part in the documentary very riveting. I think you were and are very brave for standing up for what is right and going against Scientology. These people are beyond crazy. I hope that Going Clear has reached a lot of people. Keep standing up for what is right.

  144. Hello Brian.
    Good to hear from you. Exchange has been a little sparse lately on Mark’s site. We get a bit hungry for his insights from time to time.
    Mr. Hubbard’s goal of a systematic, methodical method of achieving liberation was and is a valid one.

    Many people put in a lot of work over a long period of time to develop a workable system. Some of what now exists is valid, none the least of which is the idea of a systematic, methodical method.

    It’s now up to us, you and I, to continue with the workability part. Your combination of Eastern and Western skills could be key to this development.
    Your friend and mine, Mark.

  145. Hey Mark,

    Yes, it was a fun ride having Marty demonstrate his personal evolution in the public. That helped many people I believe. Family first always 🙂

    Regarding Scientology and Eastern Practices:

    What needs to happen first:

    The individual should have a good degree of experience with eastern theory, practices, goals and procedures.

    And this Scientology practitioner must be willing to take apart the false knowledge that is part of the procedure and outcome.

    For instance, I would start with this testing Time Dating. I believe time dating can be a self hypnotism. And my argument and challenge is this:

    Create an event and write down what the event would be on the day you do it.. Take a note of what you did and the date. Fold that piece of paper or digital writing and put it away and forget about it. Let a month or two go by and then sit down with your e-meter and Time Date it. Write it down and then compare it to the reality of number of days.
    I don’t believe anyone can do even the correct number of days.

    Repeat this process a few times. You must be perfect every time because that’s the importance Ron has given it.

    I remember in Integrity Processing not being able to find a date and the auditor looks at me with tone 40 and says,”Brian you know!!”
    I was like,”I do?”.
    Well……. this was Ron’s Totally standard bridge right? Buddha Daddy’s processes are perfect. It must be me that has the problem.

    So I found a number in my head, got a floating needle. Got a great ack from a real cutipie auditor and I was in the club.

    Ron was definitely a pioneer in the west.There is great value in helping people see the source of their suffering though a process of controlled looking.
    The problem is that Ron injected some dangerous delusional, anti-liberation cosmology born out of his mental tendencies.

    Scrutinize his work like a real scientists. Not just the ego of one.
    Someone I hope will take on that mantle. There could be some salvageable procedures that truly help people resolve personal suffering.

    But her me this Lucy:

    L Ron Hubbard was not liberated. His is a spiritual psychology therapy. To go the rest of the way you moved out beyond Scientology. That is the way it is. Learning is an eternal process. No man owns the final answer!

  146. I watched the interview. It was very well made. According to the story, you were falsely imprisoned. Did you sue the church for false imprisonment? If not, why not?

  147. Ben, I would be fascinated to hear the response from someone who has been in this situation, but from what I’ve been learning from the internet post watching ‘Going Clear’ it’s not as simple as it might at first seem especially because due to the ‘religious’ status of Co$ (and of other churches like Jehovah’s Witness, FLDS, etc..) Due to their religious status they have a great many legal protections, including punishments, child labor, and human trafficking issues.

    From what I’ve learned, Co$ is a very legal savvy organization and has it’s members sign so many long-winded contracts that at some point members have probably agreed to some of what the church considers ‘corrective behavior’ punishments. Some of them may have signed something when they were as young as 7. Some people, due to being (for lack of a better word) brain-washed, or in so much fear, or intimidated into believing their everlasting soul/salvation is at stake, they don’t at the time believe they were being held against their will or that they had the punishment ‘coming to them’, just as in any other abusive relationship. They don’t recognize that they have been imprisoned. Unfortunately, Co$ isn’t the only ‘church’ that employs these methods, they just happen to be very good at it. And they spend a ton on really skilled (and unscrupulous, imo) lawyers.

  148. deElizabethan

    Interesting. I have been playing catch up on WordPress links previously hidden from me. This video is no longer available it seems. However, I’m sure I saw it somewhere else. Thank you for all you do. Dee

  149. Mark C. Rathbun

    I don’t know why it came down. I have put a link to a preview that is still posted at Discovery ID in its place.

  150. WalkSoftly/Say No to Cults

    Did you try this link @ dailymotion, Dee?

  151. Pingback: Investigation Discovery | twinklebee321's Blog

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