How to trek the Great Middle Path


Suggestions on how to trek the Great Middle Path:

Seek balance of intellect and intuition

Harmonize reason and compassion

Make concert of heart and mind

Modulate the need to do or say with the abilities to observe, to share and to let be

Spice the syntheses with rhythm

Recognize the oft-intruding, peculiar notion that you have arrived and let it pass

Repeat as indicated, striving toward ever more penetrating and radiating degrees and forms of balance, harmony, concert, modulation, spice, synthesis and rhythm.

203 responses to “How to trek the Great Middle Path

  1. Marty wrote:
    “Make concert of heart and mind”
    I like the introduction of the word “concert” into heart and mind. It implies to me the coordination of feelings and thought. When faith and energy are added, there is powerful absorption. This keeps balance in the Middle Path. I recently found an old translation of the Pali word “magga” which today is translated as “path.” The older translation was “ingredients” which I now prefer.
    Buddha Gotama nearly starved himself following the extreme practices of his time period. Avoiding the extremes proved effective.
    When I left Scientology, the last policy item read to me concerned Hubbard’s statement that Buddhism was a GPM and Buddhists were in a black hole and that there was no Nirvana. I thought this very odd since one cannot speak of no Nirvana without implying that “concepts” do not exist. Thus I concluded that Hubbard, when he said there was no nirvana, was actually denying the ideals of scientology. The GPM implies volition in the lower realm beneath “serene beingness”. This is only about 1/37th of the spiritual path. Thus the GPM is handled in the very low levels of meditation. The “mass” of the GPM would actually be “void.” This is probably why Hubbard confused the physics of the “black hole” with spiritual concepts. Having denied nirvana, he denied concepts and thus had to use physics as a substitute for understanding impermanence and the transition from substance to non-substance.
    So auditing cannot really make “concert of heart and mind”. This is only possible with focused concentration. Auditing really mostly concentrates on the past which is gone.

  2. Real good advice, Marty. Nice to see a new post.

  3. WordPress says: You registered on 2 years ago!


    “Recognize the oft-intruding, peculiar notion that you have arrived and let it pass”. That and the ‘letting be’ is about why I don’t want my messages to remain forever.

    I could write right now about a ton a problems. But tomorrow (or even in a couple of hours) I would wake up and just not have (if I read those messages) those problems. I could get upset at somebody, and then I would no longer be upset.

    I have made analysis about what’s wrong with COS, this that, but unless I bring it up again, it doesn’t occupy my thinking, nor am I bothered about the COS. It doesn’t mean that I’m now going to go the COS and agree.

    It can still be nice to have some common ground (like SCN) to talk about. But to hold grudges, want revenge or otherwise get stuck, isn’t nice for me.

    The best solutions I’ve had weren’t somethings that solved my problems, but the absence of the problem itself.

    I would expect from some SCNists to tell me that this is not-ising. But it is different to make something and not-is it, and to not make it, and not need to not-is it.

    Im going to post something that I have before, but in another blog:

  4. Basically you should go with Rhythm and Harmonie .. the rest comes from alone if you feel and do so ..

    Both belongs to music .. and music is a mirror of your heart or your inside touch to feelings ..

  5. The Lone Ranger

    Very Nice. I would like to say that meditation in a form that stills the mind and quiets the noise is a prerequisite for me to make this trek. Be still and know. Lastly, “if you eat for 2 people, you will look like 2 people. Moderation in all things” – My Mother.

  6. Marty my friend, it is nice to see you posting again!
    Your headings are interesting, appetizing and thought arousing for anybody on a true spiritual path. Being on such, and a relevant one, I believe, for a few years now, I will comment later on some of youy headings, Just as soon as I clear some time. B.t.w, writing in a 2nd language takes X 2-3 more time to keep minimal accuracy of expression. For now, just really happy to see your humble yet interesting post. and “middle path” cheer you warmly!

  7. Fantastic advice. Very reasoned with a good understanding of humanity and the human experience.

  8. Nicely said. I particularly liked and related to these components:

    Modulate the need to do or say with the abilities to observe, to share and to let be

    Recognize the oft-intruding, peculiar notion that you have arrived and let it pass

  9. Appear/Disappear
    In the symphony of change
    Most crave survival

  10. Nice, George!

    In my experience Scientology was good for handling samsara. When people are so deeply enmeshed in samsara it is difficult for them to conceive of freedom. A release is essentially an experience of Emptiness.

    I have boiled my thinking about Hubbard down to the following:

    He had a wrong goal for Scientology: “A Powerful OT”. Well, we know where that leads. The only possible end goal for a spiritual practice is Emptiness (or call it God, or the Void or whatever term you prefer.)

    Secondly, as long as his ego was not involved his ability to observe and come to useful conclusions/actions was extraordinary. The degree to which his ego was involved determined how twisted his conclusions/actions became.

    People have commented on how they don’t know how he could have created some workable spiritual technology and then been so obviously crazy. Well, that’s my answer.

  11. Wise advice indeed.

    I sought out your blog after watching Going Clear. I’ve been on a spiritual adventure for most of my life and know well the humility that comes with not being happy with the steps you have taken. Introspection is a lost art. You have my sympathy, respect and admiration.

    I look forward to reading more.

  12. Amen Brother. Keep em comin!

  13. You know what is funny, and yes indeed Marty good to hear from you (!!), is that is what I have been doing, and quite successfully I should add. I don’t care anymore at all about “case”. Far too much attention enforced upon one about self is what got me into such hot mental shit that it almost killed me. I do of course care about myself, but now, on my terms.

    Yes, the great middle path. There is wisdom in them thar words.

  14. Wonderful advice. Nice to hear from you again, Marty. Hope all is well with you and your family.

  15. And don’t get upset by criticism!

  16. Introspection is later a failure .. but earlier LRH said it is the way for you to stay out .. introspection is a lost art .. an art which is not used in scientology because it is signed as a failure .. which is only a generality ..

  17. A Wise Fool,
    Spot on!
    I learned from this one:
    “Secondly, as long as his ego was not involved his ability to observe and come to useful conclusions/actions was extraordinary. The degree to which his ego was involved determined how twisted his conclusions/actions became.”

    This explains why I got up to full steam in early Scientology. When Hubbard was talking about “how to sell”, he was at his best. After the Pro Sales course I took in the early 1970’s, I became a legend with my ability to close.
    It was like I was transformed into a lean, mean selling machine. I even closed a blind man.
    When I arrived at the top of the OT VIII bridge, I realized that I had surpassed Hubbard in that area in college. It was like the man was not well read, and could not grasp even basics. As you said, his ego got involved. In fact, I said to myself that he was born early. He never had a real education. When I realized that, he sank in my view. I figured that he had no choice but to complete his science fiction to the best of his limited ability. He had to place himself in his imagined eternity.


  18. To deny one’s failures is to deny one’s humanity. The greatest of us oft became great because they failed often and learned from those failures.

  19. Thanks Marty – loved this. Good to hear from you again.

  20. Pithy!!

    “Recognize the oft-intruding, peculiar notion that you have arrived and let it pass”

    This one hangs me up the most often — usually I can deflate my puffed up ego – I’m so enlightened” by going to Wal-Mart and just irritated beyond words when NO ONE seems to care or help or anything — OR I can go visit my ex-husband and feel exactly as crazy as I did when we were married.

    I find usually family will deflate ego fast. OR kool-aid drinkers. Or ex-‘s who are out but think the tech is glorious.

    See? I’ve arrived exactly no where. Kinda fun.


  21. Very good, succinct rules for living.

  22. I just wanta say Yes and Thanks.

  23. Marty, I will chew on and digest this post for Days. Thanks for such a beautiful and brief commentary.

    For someone I’ve never met in person, I can’t imagine a better friend.

    Thanks from the bottom of my heart.

  24. Wise words.. Thanks!
    Having ones attention being tested every day…. this is one in particular that I strive for…. “Modulate the need to do or say with the abilities to observe, to share and to let be”.

  25. The musical undertone makes me so happy.
    Life is music , music is like life. To me .

  26. Marty,
    In the great concept and realm of balance (Middle Path), your post is an interesting and intriguing post.
    Looking at and expressing only ‘what should not be done’ – for any length of time, will not result in harmony.
    The same goes for only ‘what is bad, wrong, false, etc.’. For any length of time. This without at least the same amount of energy and attention for ‘what should be done’, what is right, beneficial’ etc., won’t lead to Balance.
    Ken Wilber said: ‘ No one is smart enough to be wrong 100% of the time,” and therefore we should focus on what’s right and leave out the rest.’ Wise advice.
    Here in your post there are some awesome instructions. More than some. A good question by an honest uninitiated person will be: ‘very nice, great, but…how do I actually do these huge and complex things in my day to day life? in my relation to the Universe?’
    In a BBC interview, many years ago (I quote from memory) Krishnamurti, after stating that he would not teach anybody anything, rather each person should find his own answers and path – was asked by the interviewer to still give what advice he can to viewers. And Krishnamurti said: ‘vey simple: not to have conflict, not to suffer, not to act under pressure, to end sorrow… ‘ And when the host protested, saying, it is all great, but how do you actually do all these things, he did not give any real (to me) reply, just stressing awareness and more words about how words are not good enough. He was nice and beautiful. but…no teacher, as he himself said.
    I do believe in teachers. Very much. And they better be good ones. they can help. They won’t do the job for you. but they will show and get you to look and exercise, and give you hope. Fantastic thing, a good teacher.
    And so I believe that spiritual work can be done, to great results. If it is a work that puts you ON YOUR PATH. This is the key: “ON ONE’S OWN PATH” – nobody else’s. As the Buddha said: “No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.” And so, any technique or Tech which do this, only this, and keep doing just this, is fine by me. ANY.
    I observe friends of mine who meditate, much and deep. They have great insights and releases from pressures of life. I know, because I observe and listen to them, (and always ack them warmly). And there are those who practice Buddhism, in different ways (with squirrels claims sometimes between them…ha ha), yet they become more spiritual and more free, hell, that’s great. And there are many workshop where people practice ways to be more spiritual, tolerant, wise, happy, get rid of trauma… great.
    As for me, I always wanted to find out what’s going on in the world (and universe) but more than that, who I really am. Always did. Because I had this sneaking feeling that there are wonderful things to be found there, even AWESOME!
    And in the early years in Scientology that happened, truly, on a gradient scale. And at times in great leaps too. And I was found to be great.. 🙂
    But in later years those “teachers” started explaining to me what a horrible and bad thing I was as long as I don’t follow in their twisted and deceitful line. No good. So I left the CoS, and life and ME became wonderful again. (Thanks Marty, you showed the way, great teacher). And I renewed my quest. And has been on it for few years now.
    And what I do is NOTS…yes, good old. BUT as a free man, Indie, (Dror center Israel) bowing to no one but my own truth. NO ONE!!
    The results are really good, over a long period, and deeply spiritual. And in concert with most of the headings of this post.
    How many here experienced that path IN A FREE INDIE environment? Without any suppression or dogma or policies…just the bare Tech? Probably not many. I have much to say on that, from a spiritual viewpoint, but it will be too long. But one thing I can say freely: That work helped me to become more tolerant, less having to be right, much much more granting beingness to others, INCLUDING OTHER PATHS, and lessened by a huge degree my need to use Ser/Facs, meaning the necessity to make others bad/wrong to increase my “being right”. This last thing is really really nice, and is the cause of much happiness and huge improvement in relationships with others.
    And yes, the concept of Balance and Middle Path are very real and vivid to me. more now than ever. And my respect to any path or system of teaching which enhances that, WHATEVER IT IS – is immense.
    One last thing, the more I go, the more I realize that happiness/enlightenment is not somewhere to arrive…one explosive BOOM, and done, but it is rather the way itself, which is endless, and always merges having arrived with (almost instant) letting pass, to arrive then at new places.
    Great week everyone, and thanks for that post, Marty.

  27. Good recipe.


  28. Why We Protest could use a spot of green.

  29. Hi Marty

    – I saw Going Clear last night (it aired on Sky Atlantic in the UK). I thought you were great.

    Good stuff, (telling the world about $cientology ) keep it up :-)))

  30. Hi vinaire!
    Nice to hear your voice. How goes it?
    I am studying Pali every day. It is such a wonderful language.

  31. I am currently following the Buddhist path.

    I see now Scientology as a trap for disoriented Buddhists.

  32. Thanks for this. Has made a world of difference this week, keeping this advice in mind. A world of difference.

  33. Hi George, good to hear from you too. I am doing well and setting up a Self-Learning Clinic.

    I am also putting together a new blog on Mathematics. The effort underlying this blog is to promote critical thinking. The focus of this blog is to make self-learning possible. As self-learning occurs, it is hoped that it would improve the ability to think critically.

    The basic conjecture is that the motivation to learn declines rapidly as confusions come about in a subject. However, this motivation may be restored when proper materials help a person remove those confusions.

    Can the basic confusions in a subject be removed in a short amount of time by presenting the fundamentals of that subject in a simple and logical fashion?

    This lack of motivation is observed very commonly with respect to mathematics. This blog presents the fundamentals of mathematics in a simple and logical way to see if people can be motivated to learn and think with it.

    Self-learning is a fascinating subject on its own. And so is the subject of critical thinking.

  34. Awesome!
    This learning of mathematics is critical to the future. I spent money on a math tutor for my son many years ago. I had to coach my daughter also.
    If you can crack the fear barrier, your service is worth it.
    I have recently signed on with IBM’s Watson project as a developer. Watson beat the TV game champion. The program has limited cognitive ability and a lot of it is still in beta testing. I am working on an application but I need to make special math calls because Watson is more of a language oriented machine. But the idea of a Watson with mathematical ability is very interesting. He could even teach math.

    PS I am also planning on getting Watson to speak Pali. Now would that be a victory.

  35. Certainly, that would be a victory.

    The best approach to comprehend a subject is to first learn what it is all about. When one understands the broad logical context in which a subject exists, then one can move forward with it. Otherwise, one is stuck back there no matter how many grades he advances in school.

    That seems to be the situation with mathematics. The subject of mathematics is really about training the mind to think in a clear and precise manner, even when one is working with numbers. Lacking this context, most schools end up cramming mathematics down the throats of their students. Most students coming out of schools are stuck in the non-comprehension of why they should be studying mathematics in the first place. Here is my take on it.

    Click to access mla01-review.pdf


  36. Just have to say Marty thanks for keepin on talk’in 🙂

  37. vinaire,
    Your work is awesome. The examples are clean and to the point. The problem in Florida is that the entire educational process is at a point of maximum fighting. Bill Gates donated millions for a program which enriched him and cost taxpayers money. Your work in the public system would get over-reviewed. I think the private marketplace would be better.


  38. George,

    My idea is to create a learning revolution through Self-learning Clinics. I am currently working on putting together the first one. Here is the general sketch.

  39. Read widely on many different subjects and viewpoints. This includes fiction from many different writers.

    Travel if you can. Experience different cultures. See great historical sites.

    Experience all kinds of art. And food.

    Be friendly and interested in people. Be helpful and respectful to others.

    Have fun.

  40. I will post this on ESMB

    Eckhart Tolle,Dalai Lama,Desmond Tutu & authors. – ” Educating the Heart and Mind-Creativity”

  41. Posted it on WWP too

  42. vinaire,
    “Where eastern though meets western technology”

    That would be a type of Middle Way. What you are doing is very compassionate. I would like to turn back the clock and say that Hubbard started on that path in the 1950’s, but got off track.
    A different kind of company showing kindness is foreign to the west. The roots of capitalism are just too deep. However, I really like the direction that the young lady in the video took – perfecting the human soul.


  43. You have given me more then I expected. Damage control Done! I’m glad you are apparently well. The body will heal after the mind. Rest, love and good live food. I’m Happy you are doing well. Can you put pix on the other bog someday? Hugs to you and yours and thank you 🙂

  44. Even with a broken bodyyou can lead:

  45. I mis Jim Logan.

    Marty like you I do not forget people.

  46. And this, The middle path requires hard introspection

    And not Scientology style

  47. Who can halp me? I want to know an OT-levels of a members of Going clear. Correct me please: Mike Rinder(OT8),Marty Rathbun(OT8),Paul Haggis(?), Jason Beghe(OT5), Tom De Vocht(?),Hana Whitfield(?), ‘Spanky’ Taylor(?), Sara Goldberg(OT8)

  48. Smart and fitting.

  49. Marty this is rich:

  50. Marty,

    Re your post – sounds like somebody is stuck in a “maybe” if they take on that philosophy; and, they do not take the necessary steps to move forward.

  51. Cat, interesting documentary, and very well composed. (CCHR, I’m surprised. Looks more like BBC.)
    What was your point about it?

  52. First “Going Clear” and now “My Scientology Story” -i was deeply impressed by the first movie, and now look forward to this next one. Thank you for helping to enlighten people about the dangers of Scientology. Wishing you and your lovely family much-deserved peace and happiness.

  53. Good appearance without you there would not have much of a film..

  54. weasling their way into everything

  55. I’m new to blogging, so let me see if I hit the right buttons,
    Having walked . . . .

  56. Having walked the AA path several years ago, I can relate to Marty’s post as a valuable day to day living philosophy for many.
    Many people will continue worthwhile spiritual pursuits while others will be relieved to give up “processing”, striving, and a hard ass pursuit of “Total Freedom”.
    A person whom I have come to know once said,
    “Not everyone needs an ever-climbing level of truth to the stellar heights of ultimate truth-hood.” Alonzo

  57. Cat, This is consistent with CCHR back in the 70’s, and it seems to align with mainstream news.
    I am surprised that they did not follow the same path as ‘Freedom Mag”, and produce something totally bonkers.

  58. My final words to Scientology and its members:

    “My mindfulness and wisdom are mature
    And my mind well concentrated.
    Conjure up whatever forms you wish,
    But you will never make me tremble.”
    Samyutta Nikaya – 489


  59. A good journey to you, George. I have read and appreciated many of your comments on the blogs.

    Missing the ‘rush” of scn “wins”, I suppose myself and some others will occasionally think “Sitting around contemplating shit is boring. Give me some more f/n s!”

    Nature hates a vacuum, so substitute something. I usually don’t follow my own advice, but for now I’m learning about and participating in blogging.

    Reading comments by others gives me insights into logic, philosophy and other spiritual endeavors. Also lots of laughs!

  60. Can you relate to abuse ?

  61. They seem to have a new chief executive editor.

  62. My final words on that

    EGO !

  63. oops My bad George You were just saying adios to scilons

  64. Aquaclara

    According to comments and reviews of the “My Scientology Movie”, Marty got pounced on pretty hard. Marty has at times been on all four flows of the “kicking the shit out of . . . .” item. He is one tough nut.

    I have been totally out of scio for over 30 years. I decided to reexamine my scio experience after watching the hbo doc. What a shock! I see that many women and men have been at WAR with cos for YEARS. Things were a lot gentler in my day.

  65. I do realize that fair game was in effect even back then, but information was limited and just like all scios I was in the bubble and would not have looked.

  66. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    “Things were a lot gentler in my day.”
    There was a spirit of adventure in my early days in the 1970’s. I remember when I first read “Keeping Scio Working”. I thought how can he keep something working which has not in any way proven itself. To me he meant he was going to keep going on with “research”. I remember meeting a lot of people who just took it literally on faith. Most of these never advanced into the OT levels. I had a far higher standard in that I expected a result. It was great to have a f/n’s anf to piece together bits from the past. I’m not leaving blogs. I’m still putting him behind me after almost 30 years.

  67. Path of Buddha

    Guys like Marty, his wife and friends have had to bear up to numerous hits from scio. I admire their courage. If even a sliver of truth could get through to Tom Cruise, there might be a chance. The other guy is too far gone, IMHO.
    I know about half a dozen who are still in. Have not spoken to them in 28 years. They don’t even know about Hubbard’s wild, subjective “dance in the stars” as the imagined saviour of the universe.

  68. Path of Buddha

    Cat Daddy,
    Totally cool! You are wise, indeed.
    The quotation from the Samyutta Nikaya does not contain the words of Buddha Gotama. They are actually from a saint confronting Mara, the evil one, also translated as “death”.

  69. Re: “Process/Processing”

    Since some people will continue scio outside of the CoS or seek an alternative, I suggest the following: “Process” is a scio junk word substitute for “procedure” which leaves the mind slightly confused and easier to manipulate/hypnotize. Eg. “Please process my mind.”

    I would suggest being alert to any practice which delivers “processing”.

  70. Cat, who has a new chief executive editor? I don’t get your point.
    What are you saying about the video? Are you saying that CCHR is getting back in line with reality?

  71. GMW I misread your statement. I was thinking about the eloquent “final departure” statement ThetaClear made to the folks at the BackInComm blog Aug 2015. With kindness he stated that he was too “counter-intention” to their opinions and beliefs to continue his participation.

    Upon reflection I realize that my “things were gentler” statement was a disservice to the heroes such as Alan Walter, Arnie Lerma et al who faced the beast early on.

    While reading the quote you posted above, I pondered would I, could I ever be as serene and centered as he/she. A feeling of being centered as who I am right now passed over me. It was a nice win for me. Thank you for posting that.

    Marty I gained benefits from my first reading of your post and I will continue to review it and reflect upon it.

  72. And Paulette Cooper! Maybe the earliest and greatest hero of scio history.

  73. There was always so much beautiful music on this blog. It always felt so natural for music to be flowing here. The music just fit it here. There was always so much harmony. There has never been another blog where music fit in. This blog was musical. All of the time. I miss that music. But everything is temporary.That is why art becomes valuable.I keep wondering why this is the blog / forum that became so musical.

  74. Oracle
    I have been skipping over the musical posts getting to the “meat of the conversation”. I see that I have been missing a lot of pure aesthetics and it’s well worth the time to stop and listen.

  75. I read the “6 Steps” today and again found them valuable statements for contemplation although I’m still fuzzy about “Spice the synthesis with rhythm”.
    The last part “Repeat as indicated . . .” (sounds like an auditing command) doesn’t work for me. It’s too long, I don’t wish to strive and I don’t wish to do anything repetitively. It might work for me as an occasional read, but not as a daily reflection.

  76. This topic is giving me a mental workout. Now that I’ve calmed down a bit, does anyone understand what “Spice the synthesis with rhythm” means?

  77. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    “Spice the synthesis with rhythm”.

    That statement to me is also difficult. I think of the musical nature of meditation. It is reported in the Pali Canon that Buddha Gotama used references to a musical instrument which is the grandfather of the Sitar.
    It was called a Vina over 2,600 years ago. The last person to play the Vina was an Indian. As I understand the Vina, it is based on a unique scale which is difficult to master. But the analogy still holds. Meditation has its own “tune” and its own “rhythm”. It also refers to the “Middle Way”. The Vina should not be too tight of too loose. For a sharp “pitch” it must be in the middle tuned just right. The analogy can only go so far because the Vina is not the mind. The energy of the mind operates on intention and right effort. These must be balanced. The “synthesis” is not a word used in common conversation about meditation. To me it probably means the unification of past and present. It suggests the nature of the dual input of Karma and volition. This is merely some of my own personal interpretation. I don’t even know who wrote the original statement.
    “Spice” to me means add joy to the whole process.

  78. I’ll respond to you in a bit, GMW, but first let me say something else since the comments are a bit out of sync which is no big deal.

    In the seemingly bottomless pit of “Scientology Deprogramming”, I interpreted Marty’s suggestion to “Repeat as indicated” to be “yet another “process” being pushed at me!”

    I know – not logical. Isn’t supposed to be. That’s Scientology. I walked away from the scio buildings 30 years ago but carried the programming right along with me! Cognitive dissonance at its finest. “Must have a path to spiritual betterment/Can’t trust anyone.”

  79. GMW – You offer some interesting insights. Since I have no background in Buddhism, I take time to ponder what “Buddhists” (?lol?) have to say. It would be quite an experience to listen to a Vina virtuoso today or 2600 years ago.

    With a clearer head after now (hopefully) dumping that piece of cognitive dissonance, what I’m coming up with for now is: That as one progresses spiritually, the coming together of insight (the synthesis) is “spiced” (kept fresh, musical, joyous as you say) with rhythm.

    As a contemplative statement I’m sure it reveals more over time.

  80. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA wrote:

    “In the seemingly bottomless pit of “Scientology Deprogramming”, I interpreted Marty’s suggestion to “Repeat as indicated” to be “yet another “process” being pushed at me!”

    I had the same experience in Scientology processing. Processing turned out to be a form of mind control. The difference I have found is that in Scientology Hubbard was always asking you to answer a specific question. For example, I heard on Tony Ortega’s blog that Super Power is in that mold. A person pays $32,000 to hear the same question – Where could you be safe? Hubbard did this over and over because he was oblivious to how the mind really works.
    Meditation is really mistranslated in the west. It really means “mental cultivation”. The analogy is planting seeds in a field. You get rain and sunlight and nutriment from the ground. The seeds grow, There have been variations to basic meditation which have been developed. Some of these include repitition of the same word. These are techniques of last resort.
    The mastery of mediation is no small project. I have been working on it for over forty years. In the last 10 years I have made significant progress. But in the end, the people of 2,600 years ago were simply looking for joy in higher levels of thought. In Scientology, the “processing” turns into prison, pain, disease, debt and uncertainty.

  81. Just in case there is a misunderstanding, I definitely DO NOT see this topic as any sort of “process”.

    My earlier criticisms were coming from a “viewpoint” of cognitive dissonance, must have/can’t have, stuck viewpoint or whatever kind of scio programming crud you want to call it.

    That has blown and I see clearly now.

    The topic is fine just as it is with the one suggestion that Marty could have said “Reflect on the above . . .” rather than “Repeat as indicated . . .”. which is a “scio type” phrase.

  82. GMW

    Usually I attempt to be pithy, but today I feel like rambling a bit. This is referring to your statement “The energy of the mind operates on intention and right effort.”

    I have limited computer skills. When I decided to reexamine my scio experience, I googled Marty rathbun, hit a button and it landed me at this blog somewhere in mid 2014 where I began reading for the next two to three weeks. (Yes, really. I’m retired and have time on my hands.)

    Toward the end of my reading various items were “bubbling up” “floating up” such as feelings of superiority for having “done” scio, evaluating and judging people using the tone scale, still promoting the “good” point of scio, insisting that study tech was the only way to learn something etc.

    As my list progressed I decided I wanted to get some feedback so I hit the blue button next to one of Alonzo’s comments. He seemed to be a bit on my wavelength. (Seek balance of intellect and intuition)? Just by coincidence (?) the topic posted was “How to stop thinking and feeling with Scientology”. Also by coincidence he was a blogger who had some time and was kind enough to give me some valuable feedback.

    be back in a bit

  83. GMW continued

    I resolved many of my issues and enjoyed my “conversations” with Alonzo. I read many of his topics and the comments.

    Going back to “The energy of the mind operates on intention and right effort”. With your background in meditation, would you consider my progress and contemplations as having any similarity to meditation? It’s certainly not a one to one comparison but the overall effects might have similarities.


    P.S. I’m seeing that the way blogging works is that you (George) may not respond soon (or ever lol) since people are busy and blog when they can. If you’re off tending Watson I hope he’s well.

  84. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA.
    Interesting that you asked if I was tending to Watson. I finished a Webinar on Tuesday. He is quite a guy. IBM is really trying to promote him. They call it “cognitive computing”.
    At any rate, under the broad definition, which is “mental cultivation”, your insight would qualify as meditation. In the more refined definition, the practice tends towards concentration. This is a concept which is not used much at all in Scientology. In the end, however, it is a key to spiritual advancement. This really takes practice. The goal is to get to the point where one can place the mind in an undisturbed, calm state of relaxation for long periods. The greatest of the masters could easily do it for seven days at a time. There were also reports of some masters who could go up and down eight levels of absorption forward and then in reverse without breaking concentration. This is amazing.
    There are really two major sub divisions in meditation. The lower level is plain and ordinary practiced by average people. The higher division takes special skill.

  85. I see there are many subtleties and levels of meditation and contemplation. My only experience with meditation was practicing Transcendental Meditation for about a month before I lost interest.

    I was looking at a simplistic viewpoint of meditation stilling thought while contemplation induces thought. The suggested steps on this post, to me, induce thought which interests me.

    It’s time for me to review this entire post today or soon. “The lower level is plain and ordinary practiced by average people.” fits me and relates to Alonzo’s quip about not everyone needing to reach the stellar height of ultimate truth-hood. 🙂

    I will do additional cognitive computing on what you’ve said.

  86. Ugh! I made a post at a funny satirical scio website and didn’t change the address or whatever it’s called. While I’m here, George, “forward and then in reverse” is amazing to you? Cripes – “undisturbed and calm” for an HOUR is amazing to me!

  87. P.S. If it’s ok to post it here, the website is

  88. I just finished rereading this post from the top down while listening to the music Oracle left behind. It was a spiritual adventure.

  89. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    I can see your point. My wife and I meditate together and sometimes the sessions can get much longer. This works to our benefit. The level of emotion in Scientology auditing can get intense and this actually works to diminish the strength of concentration. It is very difficult thus to see emotion as just emotion. Without this power, IMHO ,Scientology auditing truncates thought.
    Thus it would be perfectly natural for one trained in Scientology to be limited in higher powers. We are also bombarded by media and the demands made by society.
    I spent a very long time on OT VII before OT VIII. I bought into Hubbard’s idea that one needed to confront these “beings” in small chunks. Many years after Scientology, I realized that he was missing the point. He was taking me away from any hope of discerning the nauture of being. I am making this point because I started out actually thinking that one MINUTE of concentration was too much based on my Scientology experience. We have all sorts of strange beings mentioned in Buddhist texts but very few pay any attention to them.

  90. I’ve been using the suggestions as a daily reflection. The “summation” (until I think of a better term)(reflection? overall reflection?) is not applicable at this time since I’m still vague on some concepts in the suggestions.

    Harmony I get some feeling of but rhythm not so. Music has rhythm but rhythm is not music. Perhaps a uniformity or predictability like piloting a boat in a predictable wave pattern. Etc. lol

  91. I’m glad. When I was 14 years old I was living in a shooting gallery in the East Village of New York. There was a stereo there, And some records. The top record I lifted to play was Dusty Springfield I got the idea but it did not hit me until a very inconvenient time. Maybe 15 years later I got it. Hard. But I had reason to believe.. I think it works to not discount any voice., It all, every one has meaning., I am a good listener.

  92. GMW – Regarding “beings”. I don’t even want to touch that one. (Not that you suggested it – lol) It would be just as well to play with a Quija board. We all have aspects of our personality gained from parents, teachers, coaches, movie and book heroes and so on. That’s good enough for me.

    I’m not going to spend any more time reflecting back on what, how or why scn offered me (or prevented me from) any benefits. You offer great insights to those who wish to do so. I see these as beneficial to those trying to pull out what “good parts” there were and and continue to seek an approach to a workable applied philosophy.

    I’ve been continuing to use the suggestions as a daily reflection. I suppose if I choose to dig deeper I could use them as an “Introduction to Buddhism”. lol

    New Jersey is in full fall color and my wife and I and our pooch took a long ride along the Delaware River yesterday.

  93. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    Very nice post.
    “New Jersey is in full fall color and my wife and I and our pooch took a long ride along the Delaware River yesterday.

    After another hot summer in Florida, you turn me to the days we spent in
    Lock Haven, PA almost 40 years ago.
    We often made the trip from Lock Haven to Delaware and then onto Wildwood, NJ. Those we happy days full of joy.
    I remember we had a dog as well.
    Good luck on your path. In the end, it is all personal.

  94. Path of Buddha

    continued – typo correction.
    “Those were happy days full of joy.”

    Scientology produced many personal scars over the last 43 years.
    About ten years ago, I read some of the tons and tons of literature
    that arrived in the mail daily. Hubbard’s claim to have been the
    Buddha got my interest. I told my teacher at the time that I wanted to
    do something to counter it. He laughed and then he said “There have been
    thousands of these. Why bother?”
    I decided that I needed to separate fact from fiction. I could see
    thousands of ways where Hubbard was a false Buddha. So I started
    writing and blogging about seven years ago. I never wanted to even
    speak about Buddhism. I simply did not want to see more false ideas
    spread by Miscavige.
    I am not a teacher. I concentrate only on explaining the vast differences
    between Scientology and Buddhism. My scars are healed.

  95. GMW
    “There have been thousands of these. Why bother?” A big LOL for me on that. Somehow your posts always give me a laugh plus insight.

    I thought my previous post had vanished and was becoming impatient. Looking up I see it was only two days ago! Patience, Richard – lol

    I’ve been revisiting this topic as a daily reflection. It helps me tone down what might be called over enthusiasm and/or self importance.

    I’m putting together a (humorous) comment about scn related channeling experiences going on when I joined the Great Exodus in LA around 1985.

  96. When I blew scn in LA in 1985(?) along with scads of others, many “Blown Scientologist Discussion Groups” sprung up. Many of us listened to channelling tapes, perhaps to make some sense of things or just get other viewpoints.

    Don’t ask me where channelling comes from but I listened and learned some things. On one channeling tape which had specifics edited, a group of OTs was grilling an entity on whether OT 3 was real or not!

    Another entity jokingly suggested “Don’t ever let an American Indian be your spirit guide. They’ll be constantly on your shoulder saying Water the plants – Water the plants”.

  97. Path of Buddha

    Thanks, Richard AAA for the kind words and the laugh.
    That is funny – grilling an entity on OT III.
    I was making the transition from Toronto, Canada to Miami at that time, 1984-1985. I remember hearing that a SHSBC graduate blew from
    Scientology. I remember how shocked I was. I could not even imagine
    it at that time.
    If you have any more stories, let’s air them out. I think it is great
    karma to take a look.
    All of the money I lost in Scientology produced no pain or scars.
    All of the wasted time studying Hubbard produced no pain and
    scars. All of the drilling produced no scars. Scars were produced by
    Hubbard’s breaking of trust. He really did not have the answers.
    He announced his own philosophy and charged too much.

  98. Just posting a non sequitur video here because this blog is so liberal.

  99. Busted dreams. How about this one?

  100. GMW
    I did my daily reflection and the concept of harmony was calming. I don’t have anything to top that channeling episode humor wise but a bit more about it.

    The entity was a “Dr. Peebles”. I may have that misspelled. Of the three or four entities we listened to he was my favorite. I remember the frustration in some of the OTs quizzing him. They just wanted to know Yes or No about certain things! One reply he gave was “Well, that is one of several possibilities and . . .” He would then go on to explain that there were many other possibilities for spiritual advancement and higher plateaus of existence. IMO even if “he” thought OTIII was hogwash, he couldn’t say because it could be unsettling to some of those so heavily invested in scn.

    Another entity was “Ramtha”. He was an advisor or whatever to Linda Evans the actress. On one of his tapes a member of the audience blurted out “God Bless You Ramtha!” He immediately responded with “I AM blessed”. Those entities are quick!

    There were about a dozen of us in the group which met weekly at someone’s house. We actually tried a practice for a few weeks, a “focus on the positive” type thing. The leaders of the group, a woman and her husband, eventually decided that “It didn’t work”. We all pretty much agreed and the group disbanded soon thereafter. I was sad about it since we were having fun.

    It’s not the place for it here but I posted some of my scn background at Alonzo’s blog at the “Scientology is a Trap” topic as “Clear?”


  101. Another episode of my scn experience in LA was renting a room at times at the Celebrity Center soon after scn bought it. A lot of the toilets didn’t work, wallpaper was peeling off the walls and the furniture in the rooms was old and rickety. I didn’t care because I was Totally – On – Purpose.

  102. Nice Oracle. I hadn’t heard that one for a while and much nicer than a shortened radio version

  103. Path of Buddha

    This reminds me of the stories from Paris during the non war years before
    and after WWI. There were groups of people seeking the truth in whatever way
    they could.
    The same thing was going on in England with John Ruskin and his friends.


  104. Path of Buddha

    I did OT III in the Celebrity Centre in LA when it was still the Manor Hotel.
    I did OT II in a small closet that they rented to me. I did not mind the dirt because I thought I was on the way to total freedom

  105. GMW

    LOL The thieves actually made you rent the damn closet? What a joke.
    Your comparison in the earlier comment is apt. All of us at that time with our wonderful rickety ass full of crap Bridge yanked from under us. I just read some previews of Leah’s book. Apparently she really crucifies scn. She attacks everyone who pissed her off including Tom Cruise. Bye Bye CoS. He who laughs last . . .

    I forgot about it just being called the Manor back then. No signs and overgrown with weeds. There was a fountain outside which probably hadn’t seen water in 30 years.

    I usually don’t bother to pour fuel on the flame, but that was fun. I have a mockup (King’s English, I checked) which I’d like you to consider in a future post.

    I have a friendly post to Marty which I was going to post tomorrow but I might as well do it now. Talk to you soon George.

  106. trek – to travel or migrate, especially slowly or with difficulty – Dictionary. com
    rhythm – (I was stuck on that before) measured movement as in dancing – etc. etc.

    “Word clear the whole thing ya dope.” All that time and money spent on the “super literate” study course and I never thought of it till now. I must still be suffering brain-freeze from Scientology.

  107. I think it is a song about breaking away? The pain of turning your back on a dream or a love that you have to endure , in order to have a future at all. Maybe, like leaving the womb. We all did that with “mother church”. Some babies are still wailing with the oxygen. Or, leaving a love because there is no valid “reason” behind it. There is this pain and liberation at the same time.Like birth. If you are taking a big loss, there is a vacuum and all sorts of things can float in. Or not. If the vacuum remains and nothing or nobody can fill that space, sometimes you just have to keep it empty . That is when people deny themselves the right item. I have found it is very difficult for people sometimes to own their own right items. And very easy to take in wrong items. It doesn’t feel right to “let go” of a right item. You only have losses when you do that. Sometimes something that had been your item for a long time, vanishes, like in death. Right items can be temporary. Of all the wild weird abstract magical out of the box ideas Hubbard put forward and I wrapped my head around, the idea of “items” hit me as the realest. That is, at where I am now. If you don’t have your head together with your own items, you do not know right from wrong and are totally capable of being insane. If that makes any sense. It is a full responsibility view. You can even flow through Hubbard’s writings at that point and see what are his attitudes, what were his items, and separate those from yours. There is such a thing as flowing out of that womb called Scientology. In a good way where you can be thankful. The thing is, I never met Hubbard in this life. It was the people in front of me that lifted me. All of the people I did cross paths with. The Scientologists. The counselors. The people down on street level, who were there because they could care about the person in front of them. The people who integrated ideas into their own beingness and used them to life me up. Those people were right items for me. Those are the people I remember. That is who I have to thank. If they did not pick up Hubbard’s books and read them, learn how to ask and listen, I would have gotten nothing from Scientology. Hubbard has always been a wrong item for me. An item that has been forced on me. Hubbard never audited me. Hubbard never listened to me. Hubbard had no idea who the Fk I was. He was an enforced item on a lot of people. And now people that never crossed his path or touched him or knew him, blame him for what other people did or said. Because everyone else was discounted in value. And everyone else was the total value. Scientology was never a one man show. For a successful auditing session, it takes two. But for a piece of work like Hubbard’s, pointing out items, wrong items, right items, enforced items, denied items, to go more or less wholly unnoticed by “curious” people, fkn amazes me. I have really loved the people that I have crossed paths with through these adventures with Scientology.

    I have tried hard to help and fix them, like they have always fixed me. Nothing in this world has made me feel so incompetent and defeated. I hope that loss is temporary and not infinite.

  108. Path of Buddha

    From his ignorance he missed all of the Middle Way
    But we still thought all we had to do was with the meter play.
    He charged tons of money which we thought just
    But Leah’s book will now begin the bust.

    Let me know when you are ready on the mock-up

  109. Gmw
    Thanks for getting me steamed up with your closet episode. Maybe I’ve been suppressing my anger for scn.

    I haven’t studied anything for years until now. The study course was a very valuable course for me. To this day a misunderstood word leaps off the page at me.

    According to Alan Walter ( it was developed by highly qualified educators at Saint Hill and LRH presented it as his own. According to Walter these educators were quite miffed when LRH gave a lecture releasing HIS wonderful new discovery. The goddam blowhard.

    Anyhow the word rhythm has many usages and nuances and if I’m to get full value from this topic I better know what I’m reading.


  110. I think I Goofed the Floof on that one. My appoligies.

  111. How to be true to yourself.

    Marty Rathbun has reached that Path.

  112. GMW
    The whole thing might just fold up disappear as dianetics did in the fifties. Scn might have 4 or 5 billion stashed away but that’s about the net worth of Donald Trump!

    The mockup was nothing cosmic, just a thought I had. When I decided to study this topic there had been little activity here so I thought I might have to go it alone. A thought came up that what if a Teacher/Master had given me this Middle Path on a scroll and said something like “Study this scroll. I shall be walking the earth and when I return I shall check upon your progress.” and then turned and walked away. There might be a few things to think about there. lol

    Happily enough for me you joined the conversation and have given me perspective. 🙂

  113. I’m not sure this is your most recent post.

    I still believe you refect LRH, Rathbun.

    I am sorry I left, and we needed that.

    A went crazy, and that is perfectly ok. I have that right and I am alive.

    I hope everything is ok with you?
    You know, we are aiming for the same truth??
    I have always been hard on that struggle, I don’t know it, it’s been very troll like on your blog. Intentionally. But borderline. Because I really didn’t know myself and you were incredibly gracious in letting me be what ever I was… At that time.
    I can’t thank you in words how important that was to me.

    I could cry.

    You are still, a remarkable image and promise to me.
    It is like a classic Beatles song I first made love to with someone that really counted to me… I can’t ever forget it.

    But I was nuts! Lol

    Most of that was intentional.
    I really didn’t have any respect for the blog. That is really the tearfull truth of it.
    I didn’t believe it had any merit. And it would simply be deleted in no short time.

    Like the encyclopedia.

    Yet, at a time had tremendous power.

    I hope I didn’t stop that, I would regret that.
    It’s a falisie we actually had any power over gods plan anyway.

    Yet, God gives us power and there is room for everyone. Such is the power of the 8th dynamic. It really is that great.

    In fact, it is greater then that, it is never-ending and perfectly incredible that way. You are safe and Okay. No matter what!
    We love you.
    Any you are okay.

    A lloyal officer.

  114. Oracle
    I’ve been using the suggestions as a daily reflection. Today the word balance stood out. To me just thinking too much about scn can be unsettling. What was good, what was bad, what it did to people and so on. This is after only being around here since the hbo doc. I’m at this post now just to be a student.

  115. Eat an healthy meal.

  116. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    Thank you very much for the kind words.
    That mockup is cool.
    Over the last twenty six years I have had so much relief reading
    different sources. I started reading Saint Francis and Saint Augustine after
    leaving Scientology. I had to return to my Catholic roots and re-examine
    everything. I spent months reading “City of God” which is Augustine’s masterpiece. It is about the fall of Rome and the role of Christians in it.
    One night in 2001 at about 3:00 AM, I woke up with the strong idea to
    find a Buddhist Temple and talk to the monks. I knew a gentleman from
    Cambodia so I called him. The next day he took me to meet my teacher.
    When Marty started his blog, I started to participate. I wanted to tell everyone about Hubbard’s anti-Christ desires. It was a long a gradual process of
    separating from the mentality of Scientology. I had made the decision to leave and I was physically absent. However, there were subtle ties which were embedded in thought patterns. These had to be carefully removed. Now I am at the 99.99% level. I hope I get the last .01.

  117. Cat Daddy – thanks

  118. I’m posting this for my own easy reference since I’ve never considered rhythm as related to living.

    Websters New World College Dictionary rhythm <Fr or L: FR rythme < L rhythmus < Gr rhythmos, measure, measured motion < base of rheein, to flow: see stream

    1 a) flow, movement, procedure etc. characterized by basically regular recurrence of elements or features, as beat, or accent, in alternation with opposite or different elements or features [the rhythm of speech, dancing, the heartbeat, etc.] b) such recurrence; pattern of flow or movement

  119. GMW
    Thank you for sharing your very interesting story. Looking at the archives this blog started in 2009. Historically speaking from then until now is not that long, but look how far the blog has come.

    Regarding the last .01, you can give it to me. I have plenty of room left for it.

  120. As an afterthought to the above, “study tech” is scio-speak and wrongly attributes its source to scn and LRH. I will now think of and refer to “the study tools I’ve learned.”

  121. Well, Hubbard addressed the reactive mind, but there were others. The analytical mind is a Mfker. Most people can not rise above that to finish high school. But there are other minds. And I know a little about those. There are other minds that are harder to rise above than the reactive mind and the analytical mind. But given the current scene, I will have to pass through these valleys myself as a “curious”. I am not afraid.

  122. I’ve been resting for a while on the Path and allowing things to settle in. Perhaps that’s a bit of balance and rhythm. I’m having benefits. I can’t say if it’s just this topic or my overall experience of reexamining my scn experience.
    One example is I’m becoming more extroverted. A silly little thing happened at a supermarket checkout line the other day and I made a comment about it. All of a sudden the lady in front of me, the cashier and myself were all laughing together. I’m surprised to see how easily people like to chat and laugh.
    Another example is that my relationship with my wife is improving. I’m not saying that it was bad before. I’m allowing her to be just who she is. I’m seeing that some of the little squabbles we might get into before were not her fault but mine. It’s a good thing she doesn’t read this blog or I’d never hear the end of it.

  123. spice – 4. something that gives zest 5.a piquant, interesting element or quality; zest; piquancy
    verb 8. to give zest, piquancy, or interest by something added
    piquant – 1. agreeably pungent or sharp in taste or flavor; pleasantly biting or tart 2. agreeably stimulating, interesting or attractive

    And so the fun continues. How does one “add” spice if that is what is being said?

  124. Path of Buddha

    It is very easy to consider the false as true. It is a lesson learned when
    Scientology is considered from a balanced point of view. The Middle Path can
    help in discerning what is really true and what is false. Perhaps that is the
    reason it was neglected in Hubbard’s works. In New York City in 1972, I did not
    know if Scientology was false or true. I had some doubt but I took it as true. It so seemed to be true. It worked in clearing up some areas. It was based
    on a technology so it was said. It was practical and pragmatic. Those boys and
    girls in the colleges were said to be in theory. They were called deluded and
    many other names. So the true in Scientology seemed to work in small
    areas but could the truth be extended to the end?
    But the Middle Path looks at the extremes and takes the middle. Hubbard was
    very, very extreme. Perhaps that was a clue that Scientology was not true but false. Bu then you get time, research, effort, results and group pressure. And at the other extreme, it had to be false. Why true if no discipline to hold it? There must not be anything that holds itself. So, though extreme, Hubbard had to be true. But that is not the Middle Path.
    So it takes a deeper level to see if a subject is false or true. The only way to see this is through perception and the mind. Thus OT VII and OTVIII became my passion. These were intended to destroy delusion. Maybe they were delusion and thus the false. The true was hidden. Then it comes down to trusting Hubbard. If I was in the vehicle of Scientology, I had to trust him. So I trusted him. But would he fall short? Did he really know the false from the true?
    After OT VIII on the Freewinds in 1988, I found out that Hubbard did not
    know the false from the true. His ability to see the true lacked the Middle Path.
    Scientology could not hold itself. It was not a container. It cracked like an earthen pot made of clay. It suddenly leaked and could not carry itself. So the lesson I learned was that separating the false from the true could not happen
    from Hubbard’s resting place. He was reposed on the false. Only small truth
    could arise. This small truth is what I experienced along the way.
    So the boys and girls in college were also deluded. But they had science.
    So the true had to contain empirical research and personal observation. So Hubbard never allowed either science or personal observation. Thus it could never be true. It could not be tested. Thus it could never grow and develop. It had to be the work of one man and thus could not carry itself for another person.
    Thus ends the story.

  125. GMW
    Very interesting that you should reply at this time. I believe I duplicate your understanding with maybe one exception that scn is not just LRH. Brilliant men and women with good intentions helped him early on and it can be seen at times in the subject. He also plagiarized from wise thinkers.
    This is the post I was going to leave before I saw your post this morning.

    I’m coming to realize that some exes keep parts of scn as a matter of belief or faith and I should respect their beliefs. Some of my own beliefs could seem odd or wrong to others. When I was a child my dear grandmother would patiently answer all of my “why is the sky blue” questions. She later told me that angels helped her and if I wished they would help me also. I don’t pursue that belief at this time but who knows.

  126. GMW
    Since you liked my mockup, here is another passing thought I had. At Alonzo’s blog when I asked a question he’d respond to me. I noticed Marty wasn’t commenting here so I thought “Well maybe he’s off meditating in a cave or something and letting Monique or someone else moderate. What the hell, go ahead.”

    You asked if I had any other stories to tell. In my years 1975 to 1985 I spent about three years total working at two missions and one org. As I recall there were no hard and fast contracts. I could come and go with the understanding that I would dump the money I made on my outside work into more training and auditing, which, of course, I did.

    I’ve read elsewhere that as the sea org ramped up they put in 5 year contracts. Ugh.

  127. George
    I have an off the wall question. Are pious Buddhist monks allowed to laugh and have fun? I get the picture of a poor monk getting whacked over the head with a stick because he scratched or something. lol (that might actually be a dismissal of Buddhism by a die hard Scientologist – lol)

  128. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    Buddhist monks today do laugh and have fun without getting whacked by a stick. There is a distinction today between “temple monks” and “forest monks”. Temple monks meet the public and are very sociable. They have cell phones and they have the internet. Over the centuries, these monks evolved with the landowner class. The monks do not own the land but they live in estates and many do lawn maintenance, for example. These monks conduct the two major ceremonies – Vesak and Katina. The former is the celebration of the birth of Buddha Gotama. The second is the “presentation of robes” ceremony.
    Forest monks are reclusive and do not make public contact. If you track them down in the forest, they will be hard to reach. They meditate and live from alms. They are very disciplined. They follow rules and more rules. In the Zen tradition, I have heard of monks using a stick to whack a table to make a point.
    The wandering monk is, perhaps, the most extreme case. These are rare with almost perfect discipline. They can move long distances and manage to survive. In the turn of the 19th century, these were still common in Thailand. They are rare today.
    The ideal environment for Buddhist monks was in 400 BCE. It has been a decline to the present day despite technology.

  129. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    I do not see anything wrong with the idea of angels even in today’s modern technology. I was raised a Catholic. In Buddhism we do not have the idea that an angel is a messenger or that an angel can help someone. This is probably a gnostic root. On the other hand, we have “devas”. These are celestial beings in another realm or dimension. They are rather dumb, but are energies of unquenched passion. No one pays any attention to them. They are not Scio entities.

  130. GMW
    Eventually I’ll figure out how to get my posts in the right place. lol
    My nov 3 10:44 am was a reply to your nov 2 9:37pm. I think I forgot to hit the reply button.

    Thanks for your brief but comprehensive rundown of current Buddhist monks. The forest monks sort of remind me of the old David Carradine tv show about the Shaolin monks. I believe it was called “Kung Fu”. There is much dedication within Buddhist practices.

    Anyhow I’ve been thinking about posting this so I will. Somewhere on a blog someone said “Most of us were intellectual adolescents when we entered Scientology with little or no background in science, religion or philosophy.” That had and still does have much meaning for me.

    P.S. I actually saw a tv show about monks in the high mountains where the Master tapped a monk on the head with a light switch when he lost concentration while meditating. Those monks were able to comfortably bathe in ice cold water at 14,000 feet!

  131. GMW
    If my wisecrack above insulted you I apologize. I see that jokes on a computer screen sometimes don’t translate. Please know that your wealth of knowledge about Buddhism and this topic and your feedback has helped me immensely.

    I did a quick check on Shaolin and see it’s a small sect and may not even be considered true Buddhism.


  132. This overall discussion of the Middle Path brings to mind an author and topic I read about many years ago. It takes place in modern day New Jersey In the New Jersey Pinelands which is a large tract of preserved wilderness in southern New Jersey.

    The author is Tom Brown, Jr. and two of the books are “The Vision” and “The Quest.” Tom was trained as a boy through his teenage years by a Lipan Apache Master named Stalking Wolf. Tom and Stalking Wolf’s grandson eventually learned to go into the Pinelands and survive for weeks or months with just a knife. They could walk up to wild animals such as deer and touch them. In winter they would break the ice on a lake and bathe in the water.

    After leaving scn a scn friend of mine said his wife had come to the conclusion that “There are many paths to the top of the mountain.”

  133. LOL ”they are rather dumb”, and I learn something new every day!

  134. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    No problem. I am not offended in the least. I have seen postings on the internet which show monks talking on cell phones.
    One of my new favorite monks is only about 25. He is from Sri Lanka.
    He speaks fluent English, Pali, and Singhalese.
    November is a special month to thank monks in the Theravada tradition for their dedication and service.

  135. Path of Buddha

    “They could walk up to wild animals such as deer and touch them.”

    There are numerous stories of monks quietly walking past elephants
    without any trouble.

    “There are many paths to the top of the mountain.”

    I believe that all spiritual striving is, in the end, valuable.
    Even searching in Scientology helps.


  136. Adding to the above from Amazon. “Grandfather”, Stalking Wolf, earned his name by stalking and touching a wolf. Earlier in life he had a vision of “holes in the sky” (the ozone layer) and more. A time of reckoning for the earth.
    There. I’ve made amends for making lightly of American Indian spirit guides above.
    I have an answer for my own question about adding spice. It’s physical rather than mental. Get out the door and do something different, adventurous or exciting.

  137. GMW
    OK George. Get ready for a joke. “I also really like him. Do you have his rookie year Bodhi card??”

  138. It’s interesting that Buddhism has new people coming up to admire. Christians would have favorite Saints. After that maybe a favorite tv evangelist.

  139. Searching might help – participating NOT – lol I’m going to visit my younger brother in Mass. and help him paint his house for about a week. I’m leaving Saturday so you might not hear from me for a while. I’m looking forward to it since I only see him and his wife once or twice a year. We share the same off the wall absurd sense of humor. A few months ago he received a phone call asking for our deceased mother. He replied, “You’re going to need a REALLY long distance line if you want to talk to her.” Mom had been on some ancient list about government housing or something.

  140. Hello Mark Rathbun!

    I hope everything is going well for you, and that you and your family are doing great.

    I have a timely question for you:

    Was the Truth Rundown, or any version of it, used on Tom Cruise prior to his divorce with Nicole Kidman?

    Thanks for any and all details you can talk about!


  141. Congratu-frickking-lations, Mark and Monique!


  142. Roger From Switzerland Thought


  143. Roger From Switzerland Thought

  144. Feeling the justice. Monique is on fire! Come on New York, the force has been summoned up!!!!

  145. Thank you Monique from the bottom of my heart and thank you Marty from the bottom of my heart for being there for her.

    I do love you both,

  146. even Sir Anthony Hopkins had his Walsch performed by his friend:

  147. Path of Buddha

    Great news! Congrats to both of you and all who helped.

  148. The Middle Path is about being descent:

  149. Such a good news Monique and Marty. Congratulations!

  150. Dear Marty, I have a question for you : why did you withdraw “31 factors scientologists to consider” ?

  151. It’s a nice day to start again.

  152. Penelope Cruz was used on Tom prior to his divorce from Nicole.

  153. Dear FG, Marty communicates under his real name. Why are you so with drawn? Don’t you think it is a little bit of an outpoint asking a man who has been on the front lines all of his life why he withdrew while you interrogate under “FG”? Are you really this oblivious?

  154. Dear Oracle you too are communicating under Oracle, you also don’t give your name.
    I am not asking Marty why he withdraw, but why he withdrew (removed) the 31 factors… do you see what I am talking about? English is not my mother tongue.
    It’s just an outpoint for me that Marty removed 31 factors as this was a brilliant exposure of Miscavige. When I read it that it definitely rang the bell for me. Many people in scientology were coming out because there was truth there. And now this truth is not exposed. To remove 31 factors is helping Miscavige to keep the sheeple in the church.
    Nobody is coming out of the church now, the stat of coming out is down. Because for me, and for you certainly, the stat is down. Miscavige is less attacked and the subject of scientology and Hubbard are a wrong target to me. The point was Miscavige’s abuse on the beginning of the “revolution”. I know Oracle you understand me, I read all your post, it’s alway a good indication.
    I feel still a scientologist on the basic and Miscavige is the number one ennemy of scientology and scientologists. And I couldn’t understand why Marty is removing this brilliant analyse of the 31 factors of the dictatorship of Miscavige, which helped many people to leave the cult and the yoke of this little SP.
    Nice to debate with you Oracle. Again, English is not my mother tongue.

  155. Is there really a Penelope Cruz Rundown?

    I would go back into Scientology for that.


  156. FG – I got this from Marty’s blog “Monique Rathbun vs. David Miscavige by the numbers” Jan 28, 2014 “. . . .22 lawyers have made official appearances and /or physical appearances.”

    It’s possible that Marty must not even mention INDIVIDUALS in the CoS or may have even been advised to retract earlier public statements due to the nature of the case.

    The herd of lawyers might say “Prejudicial public statements made by the husband of the plaintiff regarding the defendant(s) has influenced blah, blah, blah, blah. We therefore request a mistrial.” I trust that Marty and Monique know what they’re doing.

    At any rate, Marty has diligently deconstructed the SUBJECT of scn for a least a year and explained in understandable language the harm it can do. IMO the man has done enough and deserves a vacation. I hope he and Monique are somewhere on a boat fishing until Monique’s next court appearance.

  157. O.K. I misread your post. My bad. Peace. Apologies. XXOO

  158. Laughter! A friend of mine was doing Penelope’s make up during the making of Vanilla Sky. She said Tom and Penelope fell madly in love while he was still married to Nic.

  159. Nov 8, 2015 – I’m enjoying my visit in Mass. I was curious to see if the benefits I’ve gained here have stuck. I believe that they have.

    Carol, the next door neighbor and good friend of my brother Glen and his wife Jennifer stopped by yesterday. My brother and I had kind and loving parents, but we were never a kissy huggy type family. Earlier I might have sat in the chair and said “Hi Carol. It’s nice to see you.” This time I felt a sincere desire to give her a hug and tell her that I was very glad to see her, which I did. She responded in kind.

    Jennifer has always been very friendly toward me. Now I feel we are becoming friends.

    City lights obscure the stars where I live. Glen lives out in the country. Last night I enjoyed stargazing under a crisp and clear New England sky.

    Nov 11, 2015 raining today – time for some notes Yesterday I was up early starting some outside painting. Carol was outside letting her ponies out of her barn and saw me. She walked over and asked “Can I have my morning hug?” Very nice.

    I had been talking to Glen a bit on the phone about the current scn scene. Last night we watched the hbo doc together. I suggested that we watch the whole show without commentary by me, which we did. At the end he only had one question, so he “got” what was being shown and said. A p.s. to that is that he downloaded Leah’s audio book so he can listen to it while he commutes. He was already getting a few laughs from looking at the Amazon write ups.

  160. GMW
    I believe I “get” your 3:00 AM experience. Years ago I had an epiphany. If I were Catholic I would call it The Presence of the Holy Spirit. That Presence was neither male nor female, yet very real and very “there”. There could be scientific explanations for such occurrences, but I choose not to examine my experience too deeply.

  161. Path of Buddha

    Richard AAA,
    I was born in Holyoke, Massachusetts. I miss the fall colors. New England is beautiful in the fall.
    In response to one of your previous posts, we are fortunate to have young monks still arising in Buddhism. One of our new monasteries in Tampa had
    two young American men in their twenties enter monastic training last month.
    Buddhism grows slowly by Western standards. It actually died out in India a few hundred years after the death of the Buddha Gotama. Then it gradually spread over 2,000 years. In the 1970’s several Theravada monks tried to establish in the United States. Despite interest in Hinduism, they had to migrate to England for support. Theravada Buddhism is now established in the United States. The last time I looked we had about 40 temples. We are reclusive.

  162. Cat Daddy – I reviewed this entire post again this evening while listening to the MIX(50) playlist which follows the Suzanne Vega – Luka post you left above. They are all very fine songs one after the next on that mix. Thanks for posting that.

  163. Hey, that was beautiful writing.

  164. Once, I was visiting my birth mother when she was living in California. O.K., we did not really “visit”. I arrived and got a space to sleep and had to revolve around her orbit because she was severely handicapped with narcissistic personality disorder.

    But in all honesty, I took advantage of the situation and her handicap, knowing I would become a “ghost” when I entered her presence. And that had a freeing effect on me.

    She was really gone on drugs at that time, taking lsd and smoking weed. I lived in one part and she the other.

    I was eleven years old and had been living with her sister in Berkely California for many years. She had taken me to see the movie “Born free” right before I had, left there, O.K.maybe not right before, whatever…but there I was, and my mother had a stereo.

    One morning we crossed apths and I heard her mutter to the bathroom mirror, that she spoke to often, that there was a need for music, new music.

    I recalled the sound track from the movie, ” Born Free” , and saw a way to make myself visible.

    “Oh!” I said. “I saw this movie with a great sound track, lots of drums and jungle music. Very exotic”.

    She was tripping on lsd and I knew it. She leaned closer and asked me to run get the album if she would give me some money.

    Off I trotted on a mission. Got the record store and they did not have it. At the record store, the sales person told me a record I would really like, would be, “The Sound of Music”. Played it for me. Yeah, I loved it! I bought it. I forgot about my mother.

    Returned to her place and put it on the stereo loud volume.

    “Doe, a dear, a female dear…Ray, a drop of golden sun. Me, a name, I call myself, Fa, a long long way to run!!!!!”

    Suddenly the door to her bedroom flew open and she charged out with more energy and conviction than I had ever seen her display, in her life. She was on a protest read! I ended up on the sidewalk with my record album.

    This music and listening to it became more important to me than anything else. I do not know why to this day. But, this “can’t have” on music beefed me up into someone new. The line had been crossed. The line had been drawn in the sand. I knew I had step outside the box for the first time in my life, if I was going to survive.

    I glanced next door. Elderly people lived there that used to send me sympathetic glances. Prior to this it had annoyed me as “judgemental”. I had avoided them as a “bad vibe”.

    Now, I went up to their door in allegiance and asked them, I could come in.

    They let me in and I explained I had bought this record and could not listen to it in my mother’s place.

    They were kind to me. They let me play the record on their record player. They let me listen to it, and they gave me something to drink. It was alright, and I belonged, and I was in the right place at the right time for a moment. They made me love them, just like that.

    I’m 59 years old and I still remember those people and their kindness.

    Whatever good we got from exploring Scientology, it came from kindness of others.

    Be kind. It matters. I wanted to be those people when I joined staff. Not a mercenary.

    That is what made me, an “S.P.” and “reasonable”.

    It does not matter. A person can erase engrams but not pleasure moments. Hubbard even says in Dianetics pleasure moments can not be erased.

    We can all forget and erase David Miscavige. He can be erased. At the end of the day, even by Scientology standards, he is fragile in our hearts and minds. We do not linger because of the draught of mercy and compassion, we linger because of the love we felt for one another.

  165. Path of Buddha

    Oracle wrote:
    “Whatever good we got from exploring Scientology, it came from kindness of others.”

    That is so, so true. I feel the same way about it. I remember the kind people, the ones who helped. The comments I read about Scientology on Marty’s blog really, really helped to get the subject in perspective. Today Scientology apprears to me like an old, stale bunned hot dog that someone left at the gas station. My teacher said to me recently “The state of the mind is more important than its content.” The kind people helped with a favorable state of mind. Hubbard’s content analysis had limited application.

  166. Oracle and GMW – Oracle, you warm my heart, give me some laughs, and give me things to think about. More on that later. GMW – Halleluiah! My mentor has returned!

  167. Oracle – In defense of your mother, I also would have kicked your butt out if you played that music while I was tripping! Yes, bottled up emotion has been a leftover from scn for me although I wouldn’t say that was entirely the cause. You express beautifully how reality is and should be.

    GMW – I guess you’re not TOO reclusive if you’re saying it here. Lol

  168. Parts of the suggestions are becoming part of me although I still reflect upon them in words. I expect that over time they become intuitive. Something I might add for myself comes from comments above and what I’ve been thinking.

    Vinaire states “And don’t get upset by criticism!” Hemi states “. . . the necessity to make others bad/wrong to increase my “being right”. This last thing is really nice and is the cause of much happiness and huge improvement in relationships with others.”

    I might add to that allowing others to be wrong in everyday interaction. The above is covered, I believe, by “Harmonize reason and compassion” (emotion) and “Modulate the need to do or say with the abilities to observe, to share and to let be” (thought)

    As an intermediate step in daily human interaction I might remind myself to “Allow criticism and allow others to be wrong.”

  169. edit above
    Hemi states “. . .lessened by a huge degree my need to use Ser/Facs, meaning the necessity to make. . .”

  170. Laughter! . You is invisible. When you can’t even have something that is invisible? The most interesting things are invisible. Understanding, affinity, reality, awareness, sixth senses, perceptions, love, compassion, mercy, faith,… I could go on and on. These were the things that created space for me, my space. For me, letting go of any part of that was out of the question. I knew if it went that way, I would truly be homeless.


  171. Path of Buddha

    “I guess you’re not TOO reclusive if you’re saying it here. Lol”

    Lol. My teacher warned me with “Why bother?” He said “There is a small, traditional cadre of defenders. You might be one of them. Good luck.”

  172. I’ll blow my own horn a bit and validate my realization. My wife’s granddaughter Remie wants a pet rabbit. She wants a white bunny which is a short ear rabbit. Well Connie, my wife, is trying to tell her daughter that long ear rabbits are tamer and easier to train. But of course since Remie is an only child, Remie gets what she wants.

    So while Connie is griping about her refused advice, I mention that from what I’ve been studying I realize that sometimes you just have to let people be wrong. She kind of, sort of got it with a “Yes (pause) but . . .” lol

  173. Oracle – You provide me with another insight. Thank you.

  174. GMW – It would seem that Buddhism as you are practicing it evades the general criticism that all “religions” are programming.

  175. The issues of betrayal by Hubbard and ego have come up above so I’m posting this.

    I have a very one track mind. About 3 months ago I was “playing” with a very interesting Walter Mitty fantasy. Two days later with little sleep, little food and pot after pot of coffee the thing had a life of its own. I finally realized what was happening and yanked myself out of it with GO DO SOME MEST WORK!!!! For about 15 or 20 minutes things were a bit scary.

    So my ego had taken me that far. With Hubbard’s ego he may very well have been living in some of his own fantasies and delusions. So the point I’m making is that I was not conned or betrayed just a normal rational person. I was willingly following the path of an at least in part delusional human being.

    On a personal level I’m wondering if the extent of my ego as shown above is quite excessive. Would an “average” person have such an occurrence? It would seem to me that following this Middle Path is bringing up issues I need to explore.

  176. Just posting the above has gotten some things “out of my mind”, (lol) Ego is a Freudian coined word which for me carries a generally negative connotation. I prefer self worth (good) vs. self importance (bad).

  177. Another simple way to look at things would be low self esteem vs. high self esteem vs. bloated self esteem.

  178. Surprisingly for me, “the charge on the item blew” just by writing it down and considering it. It may be just a part of my basic nature to occasionally fixate on something. Intellectuals gripe about people nowadays having short attention spans. They’ll be happy to know that people like me are still around.

    Highs and lows of self esteem will level out over time as encouraged by GMW, his teachers and other commenters above.

    GMW – The quote you left above “My mindfulness and wisdom . . ” Is that part of a collection of quotes? If so I’d like to get it.

  179. No one sees the pattern here?….If it wasn’t words like “maybe” or phrases like “just might”, Marty “just might” not have anything to say anymore. Post after post. I don’t get it.
    I used to really enjoy Marty’s insight on Scientology. In fact, wasn’t he just in the Scientology HBO Doc? The blog has somehow steered into Marty trolling for anyone that’s open to his speculation on various spiritual BS subjects. These guys just can’t cut loose from the idea of doing it like ole’ Ronnie did. It’s a shame because I thought this blog had a complete different purpose when I started reading it. Sneaky

  180. I woke up this morning with a not unpleasant recollection and feeling of my scn experience. It really was a unique life experience to sit in a room auditing someone or being audited. Using an e-meter as a tool and delivering questions to guide or be guided to life experiences. The sincere intention was to help or be helped with a precise path to mental and spiritual awakenings. I was part of a human experiment that only a few people as a percentage of the human population have had.

    I got as far as “Dianetic Clear”. In the early 1980’s the lower bridge was something like dianetics, grades, power then clear. I had run dianetics and was co-auditing on the grades when the “Dianetic Drug Rundown” came out. It was prioritized and pc’s were pulled off auditing cycles to do that.

    As I ran unwanted Attitudes, Emotions and psychosomatically caused Sensations and Pains (AESP’s) I found myself always going back to a metaphorical “Sea of Theta”, a metaphor my co-auditor liked to use. This was like a sea of champagne with each of the bubbles popping up being an individual soul.

    So for me all “basics” were going back to interaction with those individual bubbles/souls. At some point I realized that continuing to run AESP’s would just lead back to allowing myself to be affected by a consideration. Thus I had an experiential reality of never needing to be the effect of events in my past.

    more in a bit

  181. Whether or not the mental pictures (memories) used in that process are instantaneous imaginative creations is irrelevant in my opinion to the experiential effect. Another blogger described scn wins (paraphrased) as creating an actual sensation or feeling and after that they become narratives.

    After “going dianetic clear” as it was called I was in the “no interference zone” and a month or two later is when I blew scn. so I evaded OT mumbo jumbo.

    Hemi, above, expresses joy at his wins in the free zone. I acknowledge that I learned and experienced things in Scientology. I move on.

  182. Jeff – For me it’s FreeTherapy! lol In my opinion all the intellectual debates about scn have already been done. This isn’t even a scn topic. Yesterday I went to the library and picked up introductory books about Buddhism and Taoism.

  183. GMW
    Above you mention your teacher says “The state of the mind is more important than its content.” That’s a wonderful way to look at and evaluate one’s self esteem. Perhaps some people just know that intuitively. With no formal philosophical background, my wife likes to say “You’re the Brains. I’m the Common Sense.”

  184. My purpose in writing down my “clear experience” was twofold. Firstly, I had never expressed it before and writing it down allows me to allow it to be what it was and move on. Another might easily refute or invalidate my experience. “No, that’s not it.”

    For years after leaving scn in 1985 with OT materials hidden and confidential, I often wondered what I had missed. The great upper level mysteries of scn. So, secondly, if another reads behind on this post who had not “attained clear” and wonders what he or she had missed, there it is from my viewpoint. One need not run endless “chains of engrams” to reach my realization.

  185. The book I’ve been studying is “Buddhism – A Way of Life and Thought” by Nancy Wilson Ross. I acknowledge her as a very fine teacher. The glossary only has about 150 words which is a far cry from a scn dictionary. Most of the words are defined within the text with examples given.

  186. From Chapter 41

    Higher people hear of the Tao
    They diligently practice it
    Average people hear of the Tao
    They sometimes keep it and sometimes lose it
    Lower people hear of the Tao
    They laugh loudly at it
    If they do not laugh, it would not be the Tao

    Does anyone see similarities here to Scientology?

  187. In conclusion, I would say that by studying and applying this post, along with the help of commenters, I have become a better person. – Richard

  188. Yesterday I reviewed parts of this post. “Recognize the oft-intruding, peculiar notion that you have arrived and let it pass” stood out. I have decompressed, deprogrammed myself from scn and find myself a bit complacent (arrived). GMW above states “But in the end, the people of 2,600 years ago were simply looking for joy in higher levels of thought.” This reminds me to continue to look inward. The suggestions continue to provide benefits as they are “applied” but are not yet internalized which is different and possible in my opinion, but not to be rushed. I feel centered and I am enjoying my progress. Thanks again, Marty, for this post.

  189. I started on the middle path when I was born on the 4th July 1935. 5 years minimally controlled childhood, 8 years fundamentalist slavery to Seventh Day Adventism, then Communist Activist, back to religion for 10 years, awarded C.Eng. M.I.Mech E. and F.I.Q.A so was a highly qualified quality systems auditor before ever I joined The C of S. then 10 years of Saint Hill Scientology. Left together with wife both full OTVII, Worked occasionally as Foundation ethics officer, Wife on Foundation Reception. In Scotland I used Scientology Tech (covertly) to audit Shell Oil Contractors for 7 years. Awarded Masters Degree in Quality Management by Cranfield University.
    Studies of many paths, including Sufi and Theosophy have enable me to become an OTVIII. This is far more than Truth Revealed. More akin to the Eightfold Path. Appreciation, Freedom, Responsibility and Understanding just about sums it up. I have built and tested a better bridge. John Lester, Aberdeen

  190. John Lester, a very interesting post

    You have walked quite a path. When I first read “enable(d) me to become an OTVIII” I first thought “grandiose, impossible” and then immediately reconsidered to “of course, why not”. Perhaps the reason for my first thought was that scio terminology is so vague, non specific and grandiose that it suggests flim flam and false goals.

    Your description of what you have achieved is realistic and understandable. From my studies of Buddhism, Taoism and surely in other practices or religions I see that your state of awareness is achievable. The dream of scio in my opinion was applying western science to eastern philosophy to rapidly achieve higher levels of ability and insight.

    “I have built and tested a better bridge.” As physical science rapidly progresses, mental science needs to do likewise. I believe a workable western applied philosophy is possible although it would be difficult to deliver in a scio context without indoctrination and programming. In the meantime I continue to review this topic and expand upon it.

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