“Carbon dioxide is being added to the earth’s atmosphere by the burning of coal, oil, and natural gas at the rate of 6 billion tons a year. By the year 2000 there will be about 25 percent more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than at present…
…The climate changes that may be produced by the increased CO2 content could be deleterious from the point of view of human beings.”
- From Special Report of the Environmental Pollution Panel, President’s Science Advisory Committee, dated November 1965, entitled “Restoring the Quality of Our Environment” (Government Printing Office).
If one could manage to forego an hour of daily online distractions and spend that time instead on some directed google searches, one would find that the statistical predictions from the above report turned out to be pretty accurate.
If you would like to understand how these statistics affect our future as a species and how we are conditioned to ignore facts like these in favor of infotainment diversions, a meticulously researched book ably treats those subjects: Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway.
At this moment, while a majority of the United States electorate is engaged in a game of who is punking who with ‘fake news’ and illegally obtained news, the climate-change denying president-elect is proposing the longtime head of Exxon Mobil (which acknowledged in writing internally as early as 1980 the truth of the above-referenced report, but buried it and continued to profiteer on oil for another 36 years and counting) to be our ambassador to the world at large, proposing a climate-change denier to uproot the Environmental Protection Agency (established by Richard Nixon largely based on the above cited report and its progeny), and proposing the most environment-antagonistic governor Texas ever had to establish our Energy policies (don’t forget, he vowed in 2011 to dismantle the department he’s now been named to run). But Democrats and Republicans alike are cool with it because in the short term they think they might earn a few more coins in yet another fossil fuel bubble and a get a couple percentage points discount in taxes. Their kids and their grandkids be damned.
If you choose to look and think honestly with it, you may wind up asking yourself, “fifty years later, and I’ve been obsessing about what?”
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
The issue of climate change is simplified in this short (under 7 minutes) video, which addresses some of the major arguments of denialists:
Thanks for the info. i will be reading further on the subject.
So true. People are not getting how dire our situation is becoming. I think there is an element to some peoples apathy, that you have touched on in earlier posts regarding the middle path. Many people on the one side, that believe in eternal heaven don’t care about our planet. And some people on the other side who believe in eternal oblivion don’t either. Right or wrong the theory of karma, rebirth and interdependence seems most pro survival.
There are thousands, if not millions of voices on the subject of Global Warming. But there is only one person who took Scientology and Miscavige right up to the wall and then bailed.
Your voice on the former may be laudable but your voice of the later would be heard.
It’s up to you of course to say anything more, but I tune in to hear the Paul Harvey rest of the story.
Wars and the mishandling of the natural resources on this
planet was what drove me into Scientology. Then when I
found out that RTC was not interested at all (not acking my
KR’s) in using organic/natural products in renovations, nor
using hybrid cars etc etc etc I started to wonder.
And doing jack shit in the middle east where now nearly
every country is on fire in one way or another.
Now on top of all that, living in “dum trump” part of the country,
I really feel for my grand kids who are going to have handle all
these catastrophies.
A while back someone posted a Guy McPherson video. He suggests that abrupt climate change will lead to near term human extinction. That was a Severe Reality Adjustment for me. Up to that point in my mind global warming was just “a problem”. It dominated my thoughts for a while but I’ve now come to grips with it and carry on.
Even if the upcoming administration goes crazy for the next 4-8 years, I don’t think the percentage of additional habitat destruction in the U.S. will be that great percentage wise. On the plus side it will bring to the forefront global conditions to many people who previously had the same relatively disinterested viewpoint as I did.
The mainstream media now refer to global warming as a given, but refrain from mentioning anything dire.
So, that idea that people are being abused in Scientology and your contributing to help families get back together is now old news?
And people who are still talking about it are needing pity? And maybe sociopaths?
I am simply making an observation that others are no doubt also making.
I fully understand if you are simply burnt by the whole drama. I truly do.
But there is a very tangible, observable and wide spread view that there is a missing link between Miscavige is looney, Ron’s bridge can be dangerous and reporting on dangerous weather.
I am making a statement that others may not want to for fear of reprisal.
I am simply extremely curious. And maybe I am voicing a very collective question. I’m sure I am.
It is actually possible to think (even deeply) about several things during the course of any given day. You can, for example, fight climate change and raise children simultaneously.
And what is the solution?
Can someone develop a machine that delivers the needed energy without burning something?
In case yes, I would change to that technology immediately, if I would have enough money to buy it. As long as this tech does not exist I have a diesel car. And I get my electricity out of my wall plug. I do not care as I cannot provide a better solution. I even would be willing to pay more tax. But not as it is done today, that the CO2 tax goes to I do not know whom. I would pay for a real scientific approach to better types of energy creation. Not the old type windmill stuff or the solar cells that could be done much better and we can only buy crap type of photo cell modules.
I totally agree Mark. My scientific background is in chemistry, and while I couldn’t have done the science, I understand it.
What really drives me crazy is the folks I know who are 100% behind the space program, but believe that NASA Climate Scientists are idiots.
When I was in 7th grade, DECADES ago, my science teacher told us it was already too late for the planet. The “Greenhouse Gas” effect had ruined the atmosphere and forces were started that could not be stopped.
And people STILL don’t believe in global warming.
And people STILL voted for Trump even though he is their worst enemy.
There seems to be some hidden agenda about catastrophic distraction.
In 1972 a book called Limits to Growth predicted that our civilization would probably collapse some time this century. Limits to Growth was commissioned by a think tank called the Club of Rome.
Researchers working out of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a computer model to track the world’s economy and environment. The team tracked industrialization, population, food, use of resources, and pollution. They modelled data up to 1970, then developed a range of scenarios out to 2100, depending on whether humanity took serious action on environmental and resource issues. If that didn’t happen, the model predicted “overshoot and collapse” – in the economy, environment and population –. This was called the “business-as-usual” scenario.
The book’s central point is that “the earth is finite” and the quest for unlimited growth in population, material goods, etc. would eventually lead to a crash.
So, were they right?
Research from the University of Melbourne decided to check in with those scenarios after 40 years.
The results show that the world is tracking pretty closely to the Limits to Growth “business-as-usual” scenario. The data doesn’t match up with other scenarios.
Synopsis:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse
Research paper:
Click to access MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
My ratio tells me we must all go vegetarían, My spirit doesn’t agree.
I like red meat.
Excellent post. I shared it to pass it along.
QED
Sadly, too many people were more obsessed with Hillary’s emails and “PizzaGate” conspiracies with no basis in reality. This is looking scary. *Shudders*
Techie/Geek web comic XKCD has a marvelous hard science based diagram showing what is actually meant by global warming:
https://xkcd.com/1732/
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Mr. Rathbun, I have been involved with the Washington State Democrats as a member of its central committee for the past five years. You are largely wrong about the Democrats caring more about coin than the planet and the climate when it comes to state and local party organizations. Every one of the people I met throughout my time in the WSDCC cares *deeply* about the environment and it is one of the key reasons, in many cases THE key reason, why each of them votes with the Democratic Party. (In Washington, we have no party registration, but the vast majority of the WSDCC is comprised of people elected to represent our neighborhoods – our precincts – as Democrats. It’s as close to party registration as we get here.)
Sir, you do most of the grassroots Democrats in the US a great disservice when you posit that we are “cool with” the coming onslaught on the global environment that the incoming administration will bring and that administrations of both parties have been overlooking since the first Earth Day. Many of us have a paucity of coins to rub together, let alone looking forward to “earning a few more coins in yet another fossil fuel bubble”. I worked this year with a lot of fantastic young people whose greatest concern is justice, particularly environmental justice. I worked with a lot of amazing middle aged and older people who want to ensure that the vibrant Earth all of us have enjoyed is protected for those who come after us; as my Anishinaabe sister says, for the seventh generation from now and the seventh from them. The climate matters hugely to many of us.
It is a major reason why we are Democrats.
The party bigwigs of *every* party are looking to fatten their portfolios, as the rich always are, but those of us who do the actual work of knocking on doors, making phone calls, and raising awareness on issues aren’t usually rich except in friend’s and experiences. We care more than you apparently know about the science of climate change, about making the differences in our own lives that will lessen our own climate footprints, and about defending our planet from attackers of every political stripe. The Democrats are often much less bad when it comes to environmental protection. Unfortunately, in this day and age, I can’t sing hosannas about either national party’s laser focus on environmental protection; the last environmentalist president we have had was Jimmy Carter. But please don’t paint the Democratic activist in your neighborhood, or the one across a few state lines in another neighborhood, with the same broad brush used to tar and subsequently feather climate criminals such as the former CEO of Exxon. Tillerson and anyone else seeking profit from climate catastrophe deserves your approbation and mine, too; but people who are trying to effect positive, beneficial change have earned commendation instead.
P.S.: I am a never-in who has learned a great deal from your blog over the past several years. You and your wife have my deepest respect.
Marty, your post, in my opinion anyway, is more a pointed commentary on the human condition, than anything else. There has always been a certain minority of people who are far seeing and who are able to understand what the fundamental issues of life are at any given time in history (and who have the intelligence and ability to actually observe what is going on and intelligently compute with data). Unfortunately the mass of human beings seem to be continually immersed in various prejudices and their own hunger for entertainment of any type (and who are also unfortunately not able to discern the differences between what is real and what is fake or lies).
You are doing the good thing and what you CAN do as someone with a “public voice.” You are getting out information and making it MORE available than it was yesterday. In my opinion, that is the best and sometimes the ONLY thing that can be done: Get out the information, make it more available on more comm lines for more people to input. Will that be enough? Well, human history would say no, that to get the mass of human beings even to follow a simple, though obviously not easy, instruction such as “love your neighbor” is almost always a losing cause. But lest I be accused of being some sort of eternal pessimist and nay sayer, I do believe it is the noble effort and the noble journey that marks our best days and actions as human beings.
As we once said on R3R (step 8, ha ha) … OK, Continue.
Brian, You may be my favorite commenter so take this with a grain of salt. “reporting on dangerous weather”?
I have no problem with people attacking the abuses of Scientology. But as long as I’ve known of Scientology I’ve seen it attacked or criticized by most people(not that they were wrong to do so). The same people though are not necessarily ethical or constructive in other aspects of life. And as terrible as Scientology can be, there are greater threats to mankind that people pay very little heed to.
It doesn’t really matter whether you BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE in climate change or global warming. BELIEF has nothing to do with science. Also, science generally does not deal with absolutes. Any true scientist generally deals with “probability” and “likelihood”.
I agree, there are so many more things to be addressed: cancer, sex trafficking, mass murder, planetary destruction etc.
My post is not meant to make less of this. This post though is not going to solve these by us on this blog. Also all of us know these things. There are many agencies, professional agencies that deal with these problems.
But Marty’s contribution to helping out people has not been about global warming. He will not be remembered as a spokes person for global warming.
I find his absence from the collective discusssion notable as his voice has been a valuable one.
Now he complains about Scientology critics with nebulous generalizations and vague implications of craving pity and being so mindlessly distracted that they are too stupid to see the dangers of global warming.
I can’t help but assume that something else is going on. I know I am not the only one.
Where is his essential and valuable voice in Leah’s show?
Is Leah’s show what he meant by “appropo of current events?”
When I look around I see no other event that would make sense commenting on because of the magnitude of effect it is causing.
He mentions nothing. Just a nebulaous judgement about implied and unknown people needed pity and being sociopaths.
What I have just written is being thought by thousands of onlookers. Those who were friends and foes of Marty.
Marty’s silent and absent voice is as loud as thunder.
We need your voice again Marty. There are still people that can be helped by you.
You are an important person in this. I have always supported you. I have not been a “Marty fan”. I have simply appreciated your courage and voice to make things right.
I have also honored your research into other paths of the spirit.
I have also honored your allowing me to have a voice for my views even though you almost booted me off a couple of times.
That also gave you respect.
You ain’t done bro. This thing ain’t over. You still got work to do.
We need you.
Marty, your non voice speaks volumes. Unfortunately the language of this non voice is only filled in with countless suppositions, assumptions and guesses. Some accurate and some not.
And you are the receiver of all of these. Only you can clarify.
Or
Only you can keep the cloak and veil on for whatever reasons you now see as optimum.
We still need your voice.
You make a good point, rivercs. Unfortunately, it has been my experience and perception that the “big-wigs” are the ones in charge, whether Dem or Republican, whether Scientologist or Psychiatrist or any other “profession”, and their primary concern seems to be, to line their own pockets and protect their turf. At the grassroots level, are many hard-working people who do care, so I wish you the best and hope ypu can achieve your environmental goals. Now we must survive the Prsident-elect and his billionaire Cabinet. Whose interests will they represent> We shall find out.
Can I suggest this documentary as a resource looking at the other view, that global warming caused by humans is incorrect:
Brian: “Only you can keep the cloak and veil on for whatever reasons you now see as optimum.”
I would say Marty has been pretty open about his views in relation to the current blog post, “When distraction becomes catastrophic” – starting at least a year ago when he wrote a post by a similar title: “When distraction becomes destructive.” Here’s the link: https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/when-distraction-becomes-destructive/
No, you can’t because it is bullshit.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
Good post, Joe Pendleton. The last line summed it up well – very funny too. 😀
I take the comment of “apropos of current events” to be a reference to the election of T. Rump and his selection of a Cabinet full of corporate billionaires almost all of whom are “climate change denyers” and promoters of full steam ahead use of fossil fuels “to create jobs”, as well as terminating the EPA and any other agencies/departments that would interfere with that. For example, the man he chose to head up the EPA is on record as wanting to eliminate that agency…
I watched the above video just recently and thought – Oh, wow, maybe global warming really is a swindle. But I couldn’t quite swallow the idea that the majority of scientists had to either be stupid, swindled, or part of some conspiracy. So I did a Google search for reviews of the film and found a Wikipedia article about it, which listed out various criticisms and rebuttals.
After reading that article and then watching the video below, I would say Rational Wiki said it best in describing this documentary as “the go-to film for denialist propagandists. It rolls most of the popular points refuted a thousand times into a sixty minute-plus ‘documentary,’ so, if anything, it’s a good watch in terms of seeing how deniers cherry-pick, distort, and fabricate ‘facts’ in order to ‘debunk’ climate change.”
Both of those articles are rather long, but this ten-minute video does a good job covering the major misconceptions:
lame
I think this movie makes a good case for climate change to not be
primarily due to human action. Especially the section on the effect
of the sun on earths climate.
Alexander Pope would disagree with You:
Know then thyself, presume not God to scan
The proper study of Mankind is Man.[8]
Placed on this isthmus of a middle state,
A Being darkly wise, and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the Sceptic side,
With too much weakness for the Stoic’s pride,
He hangs between; in doubt to act, or rest;
In doubt to deem himself a God, or Beast;
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reas’ning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks too little, or too much;
Chaos of Thought and Passion, all confus’d;
Still by himself, abus’d or disabus’d;
Created half to rise and half to fall;
Great Lord of all things, yet a prey to all,
Sole judge of truth, in endless error hurl’d;
The glory, jest and riddle of the world.
Go, wondrous creature! mount where science guides,
Go, measure earth, weigh air, and state the tides;
Instruct the planets in what orbs to run,
Correct old time, and regulate the sun;
Go, soar with Plato to th’ empyreal sphere,
To the first good, first perfect, and first fair;
Or tread the mazy round his followers trod,
And quitting sense call imitating God;
As Eastern priests in giddy circles run,
And turn their heads to imitate the sun.
Go, teach Eternal Wisdom how to rule—
Then drop into thyself, and be a fool!
Can’t wait to see your demonstration Mark. I suspect it will be epic.
Perhaps the change in the weather is responsible for the change in the
group mind. I know people who get upset merely by weather change.
I in no way implied, that I believed we could solve the problems of the world by commenting on this blog. My point is a subtle one. I have a problem with the abuses of people and families and the mind control aspects in Scientology. However some of the people and corporations who attack Scientology, are no better and often times are worse.
Good video. There are some valid counter arguments. Always better to “look at the other view” instead of just running with the herd.
“fifty years later, and I’ve been obsessing about what?”
You know who is really obsessed is the die-hard scientologists. I never heard about Global Warming while I was in the SO 77-96. Not once. I was raised by a very active Sierra Club Member but sorry to say that education was left behind while I was there.
I (like many of us) have children still in the church that I brought up in the church. I have a responsibility as a parent to do what I can to make sure that should they question their path the truth of that path is there for them.
But you are correct about the matter of importance. The lack of concern has already caused harm that can not be undone.
Cow farts, and deniers should stop using dutch winter paintings from the 17th century.
http://gizmodo.com/do-cow-farts-actually-contribute-to-global-warming-1562144730
“Livestock is the largest source of methane gas emissions worldwide, contributing over 28 percent of total emissions. Wetlands, leaks from oil refineries and drills, and landfills also contribute methane gas to the atmosphere. In fact, unlike the ratios on a global scale, in the United States livestock is only the third largest contributor, behind the mining and transportation of natural gas and rotting landfill waste.”
I have spent my life in the field of designing and building energy efficient buildings and environments. I had just completed my new office which was about one tenth the size of a new org facilitiy and I had all of the stats on cost to construct, net zero energy usage, time to complete and so on right down to the architectural and engineering drawings and details and construction cost estimates.
In 2008 I traveled to LA and met with Ed Parkin and a few others to present information on how to approach the concept of Idle Morgues, hoping that the obvious solution of taking a leadership role in ‘state of the art’ efficient buildings would come under the heading of the “needed an wanted ‘ list.
Nope. Not interested at all. That started me out on a fast track.
I left Ed Parkin and Mike Sutter a copy of the ‘Crash Course’ which is an incredible condensation of the predicament you, and now Marty, are discussing. Mike was genuinely interested, Ed could not be bothered.
It unfortunately is very old news.
The Crash Course can be found here: https://www.peakprosperity.com/
Chris Martenson has done a good job IMHO of getting the facts presented on our Economy, Energy and the Environment. Geoff Lawton also is doing incredible work in Permaculture which carries a similar message forward. There is a lot we can do. We need to put our attention on what matters.
Back in the day Brian, it was a comment you made on this blog that caused me to state my name, address and phone number. No more fear and furthermore, it was time to speak out and not be worried about reprisal. A lot of things went down and I still have kids in the cult. My daughter works at the HGB in the CMO. She is 34. She recently married a Russian fellow. I have not heard from her in years.
I agree with your comments Brian.
I have appreciated the stand you took Marty in exposing the cult. Global warming may be somewhat of a current issue but the real problem is not CO2, it is us. What we can and will do about it remains to be seen.
In many respects, our species seems to be hardwired to function as a cult. Belief systems are promoted by rulers who make the rules. We listen and take sides; we follow. Here is a short clip: http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/rules-for-rulers
We all still have the ability to choose the path we want to walk down. There is more work to do. Join us Marty.
I see your point Good People. Thanks for clarifying. 🙂
I’ve been watching the pro Trump Fox News lately. I’m finding it refreshing to listen to positive viewpoints for a change. The political random number generator called democracy may have cranked out a winning number this time. Who knows? I’ll go with the flow. Happy New Year
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
A new U.S. president and his cabinet won’t cause people to crave more, bigger and better and go forth and over-multiply. It’s the state of the world as it already is. If a climate or economic catastrophy occurs, many people will be happy to be living in a walled off isolated America.
Just for additional information:
thermal conductivity of:
Carbon dioxide (gas) 0.0146
Water, vapor (steam) 0.016
Nitrogen (gas) 0.024
Oxygen (gas) 0.024
Water 0.58
Interpretation:
A material that has a high thermal conductivity like copper transfers the heat from point A to point B better than something with low thermal conductivity. Thus you do not use copper for insulation in your home.
Looking at the figures tells me not, why Carbon Dioxide has more effect on heat transfer than Water vapor, less than nitrogen and oxygen.
Maybe Carbon dioxide has some miracle effect on heat. Maybe not. I know on none.
One of the ‘opinion leaders’ finally decides to do a clear-out of all the old broken records. Phew! LFBD F/N. Good to see you again Marty – duck and cover!
Back in the early days of this blog there were only a handful of people willing to speak out about the atrocities of the cult so every voice mattered. These days there are numerous facebook groups with thousands of members all talking about nothing else 24/7 so i’d say we’ve got it covered now. But sure – it’s up to Marty if he wants to get clubbed by the ex Scientology Community again; after all, it keeps the natives entertained.
The mainstream liberal media is busily working to restore its credibility while ramping up efforts to a more subtle way of disputing everything Trump says.
Obama faced 8 years of Republican obstructionism. Now it’s the Democrats turn.
After watching a few “Climate Change Denial” videos, I think a more accurate description would be “Human Caused Climate Change Denial”, but that won’t ever catch on.
trumpophobia can cause serious side effects like weeping and hand wringing.
My take is that Trump has a protectionist/isolationist/survivalist . . . viewpoint/platform/ideology/mentality. First make America totally self sufficient regarding energy, food and economics and able to continue trade within American borders even in the event of a worldwide economic depression or collapse or other worldwide calamity.
Certainly not everyone will agree with this approach, but it IS what the U.S. democratic election system produced and what U.S. law allows regarding appointment of cabinet members and judicial vacancies.
Yeah blame the thing that makes life on earth possible
nice
From one cult to another. No thanks. Complete explanation in my three books and 1200 blog posts.
America caused all “worldwide economic depression”s after world war 2.
Or, one could see that EVERY-TIME the Earth comes out of a MAJOR ICE, the AVERAGE temp climbs to 25 degrees Celsius, with or without humans.
The graph shows that we ARE a bit behind schedule for NATURAL GLOBAL Warming.
“Economy, Energy, POPULATION and the Environment” works better for me, but the Catholic Church STILL opposes birth control so it rarely gets mentioned. Catholics in industrialized countries just ignore the prohibition, but it has effects in restricting the distribution of birth control to poor countries which would benefit from readily available birth control, which particularly makes life healthier and better for females. Good work by you, Newcomer, on your environmental focus in construction.
I’ve redoubled my efforts to reduce my carbon footprint. That one piece of recycleable trash I would have tossed in the garbage now goes in the recycle bin, thinking that if a million people did the same thing it does make a difference. However, it can go to an extreme of feeling guilty about breathing since I’m expelling carbon dioxide! Laughter
I get it Mark.
And I am glad Newcomer that fear has subsided. I pray you get united with your family.
When things get tough in my life I ask myself this one question and it usually neutralizes the negative to a degree: what am I learning from this experience?
This question allows me to be the observer of the experience as opposed to being identified with it. I am then in a position to start learning the nature of the situation.
Man…….there is so much to learn.
Okay folks, it doesn’t matter how much CO2 is in the atmosphere because a cyclical grand solar minimum cycle has begun and we are on the leading edge of a mini ice age. With each coming year it’s gonna get colder. Major crop losses will be the rule rather than the exception. By around the year 2030 the situation worldwide is going to be quite bleak. During grand solar minimums scientists and historians know that there is a correalation with increased earthquakes and volcanic activity. Of course the volcanic eruptions serve as cooling effect as well.
Great research on this has been done by NASA solar scientist John Casey….
http://www.veritence.net/publications.html
This YT channel does almost daily updates and is a very good source of information…
https://www.youtube.com/user/MyanmarLiving
Just a quick Google search and I found several articles that indicate John Casey has no credentials as a solar or climate scientist. He did work for NASA at one time, as an engineer. Here’s the link to one of the articles: http://environmentalforest.blogspot.com/2015/01/john-l-casey-and-climate-denial.html
And here’s the link to a corresponding article about the guy who made the above video – Tom Luango. http://environmentalforest.blogspot.com/2014/11/tom-luongos-multiple-lies-about-climate.html
Solar physicist David Hathaway, of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Centre, added: “The solar minimum is coming, and it’s coming sooner than we expected.” :
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/729767/Ice-age-prediction-sun-hibernates-global-cooling-climate-change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/9814618/Its-snowing-and-it-really-feels-like-the-start-of-a-mini-ice-age.html
http://www.universetoday.com/15006/where-are-the-sunspots-are-we-in-for-a-quiet-solar-cycle/
The facts are the facts and the lies are the lies. Most of you will keep your heads firmly placed up your asses though and believe your political heroes and their bought and paid for “scientists”. That’s good actually….it’ll keep you warm during the coming mini ice age. Your ass…that is.
Marty it’s interesting that 11 days later you still have not posted this reply I made to marildi…
Lone Star | January 1, 2017 at 12:30 pm | Reply
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Thanks for the links Marildi. I’ll check them out later. I do believe it’s important to check every claim these days because there is so much deception everywhere. Both mainstream and alternative sources need to be scrutinized.
Yet you posted a later more provocative post of mine in this thread. What was so bad about my very courteous and reasonable reply to Marildi? You don’t agree that it is “important to check every claim these days because there is so much deception everywhere” ?
If so then that really confirms my on and off again suspicions about you and the game you’re playing with this little blog of yours. Let’s just say that deception has been your game for most of your adult life. Both IN and OUT of the cult of Scientology.
If the sun is responsible riddle me this genius:
Why is the warming greater in Winter and at night?
Amazing how the factfree bullshit gains traction from the clueless
If you actually give a crap about fact and reality take a course:
Click to access asset-v1:UQx+Denial101x+2T2016+type@asset+block@1.2.1.1_handout.pdf
Anyone interested in learning how to debunk the deniers and wade through the BS here is a free online course you can audit to hone your chops. This is really excellent stuff
https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:UQx+Denial101x+2T2016/info
Well, when I’m wrong I’m wrong. My preceding posts on this thread regarding a “mini-ice age” vs. human induced climate change were wrong. Since the Holidays I have not been working so I have had a great deal of time to study into this and other topics. I decided to really dig in to the climate change issue with the goal of finding out who is telling the truth and who is full of shit. What I have found out is disconcerting to say the least.
Let me give a list of people that I have come to believe is telling the truth about human induced climate change:
Peter Wadhams
Dr. Guy McPherson
Paul Beckwith
Dr. Michio Kaku
Michael Benton
If you’re interested then search for talks and interviews by the above men on YouTube.
Out of all the websites I have spent time on this one is the one I found to condense all the data down in a way that makes it the most understandable:
http://www.guymcpherson.com
What I found out, to make it very brief and concise, is that not only are we undergoing climate change right now we will be soon experiencing abrupt climate change. Scientists know that the earth has experienced at least five major global extinction events. We are now undergoing the sixth with around 200 species going extinct daily. From the hours and hours of digging into all the data I have come to the conclusion that Guy McPherson and many others are telling the truth when they say that humankind will not survive this. And we don’t have that much time left. And now with the permafrost melting up north megatons of methane is being released. When the arctic sea goes ice free either this year or next then a massive amount of methane will be released within days.
If any humans are left by 2030 it will be surprising. Civilization as a whole will certainly be gone well before then. Civilization is starting to fall right now, in case you haven’t noticed. Just wait until the global average temperature rises even one more degree Celsius. This will happen very soon due to the methane release. Could happen before this year is over. Food production worldwide will collapse. I also think that there will be nuclear war because the leaders will panic and make decisions out of desperation. I think that some of them are thinking that a “limited nuclear war” could counteract the effects of global warming. Of course they are insane. With the most insane leader controlling the American Empire.
Sorry. The news is very bad. I wouldn’t blame anyone for wanting to ignore it. As Guy McPherson says, “With the time you have left pursue excellence. Love those around you. Try to make other’s lives better as much as you can. Be in the moment every day. Live with gusto all that you can. Be hope free with regards to the future, but not hopeless.” (Paraphrasing)
Lone Star, when I come across radical data like this, I try to remember that Google is my friend. 🙂
Since you pointed out that Guy McPherson’s site was the one that condensed all the data and made it most understandable, he was the one I googled. I think you’ll be relieved to read an article that quite thoroughly and expertly debunks McPherson’s ideas and has a much more positive outlook. Check it out: http://planet3.org/2014/03/13/mcphersons-evidence-that-doom-doom-doom/
Marildi I did Google Guy McPherson. I read a lot of what his detractors had to say and ultimately I found their arguments and ad hominem attacts severely lacking and ineffective. His arguments and views are based on some of the other scientists I named, such as Peter Wadhams.
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own “facts”.
Anyway, I don’t really care if you or anyone else agrees with McPherson or not. I just wanted to correct my earlier post on this thread.
You can reply if you desire but I won’t read it. I don’t say this out of anger or anything close to anger. I am just truly done with all Scientology related blogs and sites. This is the only one that I’ve been checking on daily this new year. I will no longer be doing so. I know that I have a lot of living to do in a short period of time. These blogs and sites waste too much of it. Time and life.
“His [Guy McPherson’s] arguments and views are based on some of the other scientists I named, such as Peter Wadhams.”
Lone Star, I had hoped you would take the time to read the article I linked and compare those counter-arguments to what you have read on the subject. The writer is a climate scientist and he presents quite a bit of evidential data. There’s also a long comment thread at the bottom, where the discussion continues.
With all the study you’ve done, I think you owe it to yourself to invest a little bit more time into the subject – because it isn’t a trivial one, as you basically indicated.
Okay marildi I’m back. (I just can’t stay away no matter how hard I try…lol)
Anyway….Yes I will take the time to read this particular article or paper regarding McPherson. I have read a lot of articles that “refute” his positions, but I have never read this particular one. At first it seemed to be more the same old same old so I rolled my eyes and gaffed it off. But, it does appear to be filled with evidential data as you said. So I’ll roll up my sleeves and dig into it.
Thanks.
Well, marildi I am disappointed that you thought this Michael Tobis guy is a credible person to refute McPherson or anyone else for that matter. His trollish buddy Scott Johnson is also a joke. Their both trolls who don’t refute jack shit. They are ad hom specialists. They’d be right at home on ESMB or The Bunker if they were exes or critics of Scientology.
Here is a shortish video by a real climatologist Paul Beckwith…
And here’s another one featuring Peter Wadhams, the world’s foremost Arctic expert hands down….
BTW….that troll Scott Johnson has dissed Peter Wadhams.
Here is a recent article regarding the Arctic…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/02/01/beyond-the-extreme-scientists-marvel-at-increasingly-non-natural-arctic-warmth/?utm_term=.76bda6cd037c
It really looks like this summer the Arctic is going to be ice free for the first time in the history of Homo Sapien’s presence on this earth.
Take McPherson out of the equation. We are still screwed. By 2030? I personally think so. But add a few more decades if you like. It’s still very bad. Civilization will collapse years before the last human dies. It will be a long and very unpleasant experience. The facts are overwhelming that this game is over. O.V.E.R.
Lone Star” “They are ad hom specialists.”
By definition, it is only adhom if an attack of a person is irrelevant. If the attack is relevant, then it isn’t adhom.
Here’s an excerpt from another article:
“McPherson bills himself as a scientist simply passing along the science (even as he dismisses climate scientists and their work), but he cites nearly as many blog posts and newspaper columns as published studies. When he does cite a study, it’s often clear that he hasn’t taken the time to actually read it, depending instead on a news story about it. He frequently gets the information from the study *completely* wrong, which is a difficult thing for most readers to check given that most papers are behind paywalls (not to mention that scientific papers aren’t easy to understand).
“McPherson leans heavily on claims from people associated with the “Arctic News” blog about a catastrophic, runaway release of methane that supposedly is already underway in the Arctic. Unfortunately (or, rather, fortunately), the data don’t match their assertions. The latest IPCC and NAS assessment reports, in fact, deemed such a release “very unlikely” this century. One reason for that is that the Arctic has been this warm or warmer a couple times in the last 200,000 years, yet that methane stayed in the ground. Another reason is that scientists actually bother to study and model the processes involved. One thing McPherson and others like to point to is the recent work by Natalia Shakhova’s group observing bubbling plumes of methane coming up from the seafloor on the Siberian Shelf. Since we’ve only been sampling these plumes for a few years, we have no idea whether that release of methane is increasing or if these are long-term features. Similar plumes off Svalbard, for example, appear to be thousands of years old. (More to put this methane in context here: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/11/arctic-and-american-methane-in-context/ )
“That’s exactly the kind of detail and nuance that’s absent from McPherson’s claims. Instead, he’s content to link to YouTube videos or blog posts (some ludicrously unscientific— see below) and run with the idea that catastrophic warming is guaranteed as a result. He just latches onto anything that sounds scary. McPherson is especially fast and loose with timeframes. He likes to point to the magnitude of past climate changes (which took thousands of years or more) as proof that we are about to undergo similar changes in the next couple decades. That’s quite clearly a fallacious argument, but McPherson never concerns himself with the details. All the casual reader learns it that there was a huge change in the past analogous to the present that shows just how screwed we really are.
“…you would expect him to make the scientific case for extinction very clearly. But he does not. His argument fundamentally reduces to ‘positive feedbacks exist, ergo extinction’. That is, he lists examples of positive feedbacks (things that amplify change, like the added sunlight absorption of ocean water that has lost its sea ice cover) for a while, intending to overwhelm you with the number of processes that could add to global warming. And that’s it. There are no numbers explaining how big an effect each could have, no analysis of likely warming impacts, nothing. The fact is that climate scientists know about all these processes. But instead of throwing their hands up and saying “Oh, shit”, they actually DO SCIENCE.
“Again, specific examples of these things are given in the last section of this post. If you take a look at some of his mistakes and demonstrably false claims, you’ll have a hard time thinking of him as a credible source of information…”
https://fractalplanet.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/how-guy-mcpherson-gets-it-wrong/
The last part of the post lays out McPherson’s central claims and compares them to what the science says.