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The Church needs to stop some harmful practices like Disconnection and the amounts of money it extracts from members for example. I could not go back to the Church. It is a cult.
I don’t believe what Leah, Mike, Tony, et al are doing will create any positive change or “destroy” the Church or Miscavige. One reason being that it’s tabloid, scripted “reality tv”, rumor, gossip, innuendo, etc. It’s not a serious honest look at the scene. I believe people can tell the difference if only in their gut. I mean, it’s entertaining, but it’s not a serious effort. The group of blog commenters, or “sheep farm” give the appearance of broad support.
I could think of probably ten courses of action that would be more effective than what they are doing. That would assume they really wanted to accomplish what they say they do instead of perpetuating it as their bread and butter.
Leah Remini dirties her own nest. She and her “co-stars” appeal to fools and white trash.
Perfectly stated, Chris.
And after so much unreality – fakery – deceit – merciless attacks out of nowhere for asking innocent questions off-script (Mike Rinder, Karen, Tony…) –
It is truly refreshing to drink in some reality again.
There does not seem to be an easy solution to the problems presented by Scientology to the general public. Hubbard thought that he saved immortal souls from destruction and that the price of his damaged lives syndrome was acceptable. It turns out that Hubbard had no power to save himself let alone others. Now we must clean up Hubbard’s mess. If there is any real value in Scientology or Dianetics, it is a separate issue from the clean up. On the one hand, we have the attack dog solution. Tony Ortega and a few others want to eliminate Scientology. As a “never in”, Tony is facing very long odds. It seems to me that Leah Remini is hitting on the emotional level and she is rallying the public. So now Marty has disclosed some of the inner workings of the hunt with some attachment to inherent value.
Personally, I have investigated Scientology for almost 50 years. I do not find any value in the theoretical religion. In fact, I can see how it damages. However, I think that Dianetics had some workable technology. I saw these results as a Class IV auditor. People almost begged for the free sessions.
I would like to see Scientology at least clean up the damage from its past.
Miscavige disregarded Hubbard on the OT VIII material. He can make this all go away with payments. I learned my lesson About Scientology when I was in Chicago at the time the “Snow White” story broke. If Scientology rode that storm, this one today is nothing.
Chris, I think Mike and Leah do want to accomplish what they say. But their motive isn’t “pure” in that they aren’t keeping their integrity in, if only on the broad basis that they aren’t being fully mindful (to put it in a nutshell).
But when you say there are “probably ten courses of action that would be more effective than what they are doing,” I am interested in knowing what those would be. Please elaborate.
It never occurred to me that “Reality” TV was scripted. Staged and edited yes but scripted! I mean how phony is that? This totally epitomizes what is being called “Fake News”.
On the above points you’ve given Chris I totally agree. However the point should be made that these actions are all off Scientology’s actual policies and that people like Rinder and Remini if they really wanted salutary change within the Organization should be hammering on this point but instead they get involved in sensationalism and using straw man “arguments”.
Also going to the mainstream media isn’t really helping their cause since Scientologists for the most part have an inherent distrust of the Mockingbird Media and tend to reflexively respond by giving more credence than they actually deserve to the current “management” or as I call them the Sea Org Junta or the coup.
Maybe I should have said I probably could think of ten instead of I could think of probably ten.
Well, as a general policy how about using some ARC? Instead of making Church members and Scientologists out to be evil, confused idiots why not step out of that worn out pattern and treat them like people? The Debbie Cook email was an excellent example of this. I bet that had 1000x more effect than 20 years of Tony Ortega articles and blogs. The Truth Rundown filmed interviews, another effective example.
Something that looks like a good example but isn’t, because it’s obviously a trolling attempt is the Disconnection Billboard.
I have a couple ideas I think are good ones, but they would lose effectiveness if I gave the details publicly. I’ve been doing one myself for a few years now on a small scale, sort of as a hobby.
Okay, got it. Thanks.
Too bad Mike and Leah have been turned against the value of the tech. They might have been able to create a successful campaign to make church members aware that “standard tech” is being delivered outside the church – with highly trained auditors and at a much lower cost. If the two of them had directed their talents in that direction, it might have broken the church’s monopoly and forced it to shape up – and at the same time Mike and Leah would have achieved their goal of handling the abuses. (Mike may be right that I am “the worst kind of pollyanna,” as he recently called me 🙂 )
“If Scientology rode that storm, this one today is nothing.”
Did it truly ride that storm out, though? There are far, far fewer active members today as there was back then. Scientology has been declining for two decades and that decline is unlikely to stop. What, possibly, could stop it?
IMO, the removal of Miscavige would stop the decline in Scientology. He has misinterpreted the subject for over thirty years. Hugh Urban from Ohio State stated in an article that Scientology’s core “secrets” were exposed years ago in the Fishman trial. Miscavige has not properly responded to this. Miscavige had the opportunity to build an entirely new generation of Scientology. Hubbard acting in the role of the anti-Christ could have been integrated into the religion in a symbolic way. Miscavige could have then developed a higher level, symbolic auditing. History of Man was a total joke, but people will believe anything.
Marty, please clarify which of Leah’s two TV series you are referring to that had the family therapy session. I did a Google search and found out that besides the new one with Mike (“Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath” on A&E) she also had a series in 2014 (“Leah Remini: It’s All Relative” on TLC).
On the older series, there was an episode that included a family therapy session. I watched it on youtube. The first half of the show was pretty obviously scripted (it looked more like a sitcom). The second half had the therapy session, which may have been scripted too, but loosely so – as far as who would talk when and what they would be asked about, and they probably all had a chance to practice or at least think about what they were going to say. Here’s the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwbxsGDOzA The therapy session starts at about 28:00.
The reason I think you should clarify which show you’re talking about is that this came up on Mike’s blog today. Michael Fairman asked Mike if he could refute that the “episodes” (plural) were scripted, and specified the recent series (…Aftermath). Mike said it was completely false. http://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-131/#comment-178721
As far as I know, this is the only specific thing you’ve said in the videos that Mike has “bothered” to refute, and my hunch is that there is a confusion as to which series you’re talking about.
marildi – I like that comment so much.
I have been campaigning for a more coordinated effort between the ex-Scios who are activist, and Indies who care about reform, so that the Miscavige monopoly could be broken a little more than it already is, and so we can also have real examples out here of non-abusive and more inclusive Scientology.
It just has not gone over well.
There are a few however, who see the wisdom in this approach – and not so coincidentally they are not present since they are not welcome, at Tony Ortega’s – at Mike Rinder’s – at Karen’s ESMB (yes Karen and Jeffrey have been running ESMB in case nobody has caught on – and now watch them hold another CommEv on me over there, asking me for “evidence” of that…).
Mike Rinder in particular, due to the exposure he has been getting to “under the radar” church members, should have been able to work this in, and actually did a little, up until the South Africans went independent and then no more. But now you can see some of his material is being ghostwritten by Karen and/or Jeffrey Augustine.
And Karen, despite still auditing clients and being an LRH-trained Class XII, is busy playing “OSA” (as was her hat officially for 5 1/2 years – although now it’s looking more like an ongoing career) and mustering haters and attackers instead of – what are we talking about here – effectively uniting the very two factions she is all-over-the-map involved with – haters, attackers and ex-SO-still-Indy “victims” (Karen-made) who have lost their way – their purpose to take down Miscavige and have been instead persuaded to turn on others like Marty – like me – who won’t join up and follow with her new flock.
It seems that media finally now has no fear of corporate Scientology, but lawyers still do. Once again, I see that Karen has since 2013, retained and suborned the last effective lawyer who once won in a big way, for Debbie Cook. Since Karen could make (or break) the next lawsuit due to having positioned herself so centrally behind the troika and their sheep, then I hold her primarily responsible for the big ZERO in effective lawsuits over actual grievances, which in so doing could accomplish big steps in reform.
I once told her there are many of us who couldn’t qualify for Garcia’s $40K limit for participation in his suit, but who were yet close enough… pffft…
And where is her lawsuit against the church’s supposedly libelous expose’s on her?
I think this “old lady who has been backing Rinder” and throwing money around the field has been and is, following another agenda entirely. And I see that she pumped quite a bit of energy and resources into shutting down at least one of the persons (Alanzo) who had testified with direct hints she gave him as to where that agenda might be coming from.
Why do people who ask these questions of her get attacked or “disappear”?
Yes, Karen most of all, could have been the one to unite this field against her supposed “enemy” but has been busy, busy, busy – organizing, controlling, intelligence-gathering, public relations, articles, payments, transfers, appearances, cruises for shmoozes – doing lord knows what and why.
I am staying tuned here because I keep getting more and more clues as to why it is that there is little or no work being done (not just ASC but FreeZone and Indies, too) to take effective measures to reform, bring about justice and put an end to abusive versions of Scientology.
marildi – You’re assuming Marty is moderating. Marty and family may be vacationing or living in Aruba or something. At least the blog is open for comments and conversation. Historically speaking, 67 years is not a lot of time for a small but unique philosophy/religion/cult like scn to evolve if evolution is possible. Some people hope it disappears.
Amazing data. More power to you. I’m going to stay tuned, too.
Possible. I’ve noticed some of my more controversial comments are still “awaiting moderation” or have vanished.
Maybe a couple of them could be considered “trolling” or a “flaming” responses to a comment I may disagree with but for the most part controversial but for the most part less controversial than Virginia’s who I must acknowledge as the queen of controversy even back in the days of the Wild West Web 😉
(No insult intended. They contain some real morsels as food for thought)
Anyway my two bits maybe more in these inflationary times.
I should have qualified my comment by saying “At least the blog is open for some comments and conversation.” I have one comment awaiting moderation and it’s just as well. It would have opened up another can of worms and there are already enough wiggling around.
Karen’s partner does not seem too pleased with the goings-on lately…
Wow. Thanks for pointing this out.
Kayne west is not what you think he is. Marty you are so much better than him.