Going Clear Movie, Part 9

40 responses to “Going Clear Movie, Part 9

  1. 23 November 1952, tape lecture entitled The Resolution of the Second Dynamic. (Note that this pre-dates the Philadelphia Course Lectures by about a week or so….)

    “..A guy who goes goes on communicating and communicating and communicating and communicating exclusively with some other sex than his own, will eventually swap identities. And you will find people coming up the track being in one sex sometimes and then being in another sex sometimes; you don’t find a consistency from spiral to spiral always on identity. They think that homosexuality is a horrible problem…in the light of what we know (and what I am giving you here) homosexuality is about as serious as sneezes….”

    Really should be heard and duplicated to evaluate the reasons for other later Policy directives, and the handling of PC’s.

  2. Great to have cleared up the confusion regarding what Hubbard said about the tone level of homosexuals. It’s true that he described homosexuality as a perversion (in DMSMH), but as you indicated there are dozens of characteristics on the Chart of Human Evaluation (SOS) – and only only one of them has to do with sexual behavior and specifies perversion. The point being that it is the majority of those dozens that determine a person’s general tone level – not just one column.

  3. There is a lot of confusion at the lower levels of the Bridge in regard to homosexuality in Dianetics and Scientology. The reason is that the press tends to focus on the most obvious source from Hubbard which is the constant references to 1.1 on the Tone Scale. This was written in the 1950’s. When I did the upper levels in Scientology before 1989, there was considerable more freedom to explore Hubbard’s more exact views on the subject of homosexuality. Micavige’s military machine has probably blocked any of hope of getting to Hubbard’s real views on this issue. However, as I recall, Hubbard claimed that sexuality was simply determined by a decision of the thetan at birth. I remember running a very simple set of commands to deal with this issue and Hubbard paid very little attention to it. I have long since rejected the theoretical basis of Scientology so I present this only for the historical record.

  4. Thanks for forwarding this information. Honestly, I think 99.999999% of the human population couldn’t care less what goes on in other people’s bedrooms. Or what other people in their private lives. They get charged up when that information is enforced on them though. I think that is the upset.

  5. George, I don’t know if Hubbard said that but I seriously don’t think infants think about sexuality at birth. Diapers and food may be the highest priority. Laughter! Then, candy and toys until school. Then success at school. People are usually grown up by the time they start to make decisions about sexuality. I think women tend to be more focused on love than sex. Men and women are different and all people are different. Some people go their entire life with no interest in sex. “A” sexual. You find this in church devotes like nuns and priests. And regular people that just live their life alone. You can’t make a hard and fast rule about it that covers all human beings. When sex becomes part of a group dynamic it becomes aberrated because sex is not a group activity. It does not belong on the third dynamic. Destructive sex like rape, molestation, human trafficking, becomes a third dynamic issue along justice lines. Very few people are comfortable with sexual slavery or selling children for sex. This becomes a marketplace economics issue or a human rights violation. Dragged into a third dynamic. The people that perpetrate such crimes against humanity, drag sex into a group dynamic and make it aberrated. I have no idea why Paul Haggis has a problem with Scientologists and their views, but not Tony Ortega. I have no idea why Tony Ortega criticizes Scientologists as “homophobic” with one hand while running a sex trafficking syndicate for children with the other.

  6. Tony Ortega absolutely stigmatizes Gay people and his Village Voice cover saying, “Who Do We Have To Blow” ( to get the gay vote) suggested gay people are willing to give blow jobs to move ahead in the world.
    Seriously degrading and stigmatizing homosexuals.

    You can find the screaming cover here:


    This is the article, not the cover:


    Tony Ortega has some fixed ideas about gay people that are guttural.

  7. The most dominant Scientology policy regarding sexual practice is;

    “SECOND DYNAMIC RULES” page 780 vol.1, Org Exec Course AUGUST 11, 1967.
    “It has never been part of my plans to regulate or attempt to regulate the private lives of individuals.”
    Whenever this has occurred, it has not resulted in any improved condition.
    All I have been interested in, so far as Scientology law was concerned, was in removing retarding elements or practiices from the path of progress toward freedom.
    Man is aberrated. Otherwise we would not be here. He is hard to rescue as he has been carefully “trained ” to do himself in.
    I have no concern about the second dynamic activities of Scientologist save only where they bring suffering to others and so impede our forward progress.

    “NO Ethics Order shall be issued by reason of second dynamic activities. All Ethics Orders now in force relating to the second dynamic are cancelled.
    No staff member may be punished, transferred or dismissed because of second dynamic activities.
    No student or preclear may be suspended or dismissed because of second dynamic activities.”

    Considering that this was written in 1967, I’d say LRH was well ahead of the rest of society regarding sexual tolerance.

  8. Hi Oracle,
    This is on a tape not released to the public. I mention it in my book. Hubbard assumes a fully conscious thetan at birth in it.

  9. Hi Oracle,
    Hubbard said it on a tape that was not released to the public. It was at a lecture in South Africa.

  10. What LRH said or wrote about homosexuality and how the CULTURE of Scientology BEHAVES with respect to homosexuality would not recognize each other if they passed in the street, probably heavily influenced by LRH’s writings where he most definitely stigmatizes homosexuality negatively in SOS, despite anything he may have written later. Books have a lot more authority than PLs.

  11. Obviously, Hubbard spoke with great reason about the private lives of people. But what Hubbard said obviously escaped a lot of people on both sides of the fence. Hubbard gets blamed for everything. The word “Scientology” gets blamed for everything. Tony Ortega and crew have personified the word Scientology. “Scientology killed my son”. “Scientology thinks…” “Scientology..” as if Scientology were a human being.

    We see celebrities that co existed happily with Scientologists waiting on them hand and foot for decades, knowing full well those people were slaving sixteen hours a day seven days a week for 25.00 a week. Now they take issue with all of them as if they were a virus over a personal slight. Or they complain about other selfish celebrities that were there doing the same thing.

    We see Sea Organization executives that dominated others for decades feeling very comfortable with that entitlement. Complaining bitterly about management and abuse. They never mention they were comfortable with it for decades until it focused on them. And they even laid the foundation for it.

    Marty seems to be the only person that took the exit ramp, came around and created an intersection where people could talk about out points that concerned all people high and low and try to make adjustments for the benefit of all. Without going into the victim or kill mode. Unfortunately, most could not escape the game of thrones.

    Paul Haggis and Jason Beghe were pretty civilized. Jason Beghe has been very sane.


    They took the exit ramp and left a review. Which they had every right and even an obligation to do. And they kept it moving with their lives.

    Others that said they left, never left. They are still finding a way to survive through “Scientology”. Even if it is raping and pillaging and slaughtering what is left. During revolutions, there are always people who stand firm until everything is burned down to the ground. And they have emptied every pocket, food bin, and storage bin. And killed off every remaining living soul of the village.

    This is really not about Scientology. I stood in the middle of the L.A. riots and I know what some people turned loose from any system are capable of when angry.

    Thankfully, we have people that can leave the Olive Garden restaurant, go home and go to Yelp to leave a review. And not feel compelled the next day to return to burn the place down and kill off all the wait staff should there be a one-star rating. While setting up a hot dog stand at the entrance to scoop up any coins that were possibly headed in that direction.

    None of this has anything to do with Scientology. Humanity first. Scientology was a sub activity. Government and commerce are a sub activity. Show business and politics are a sub activity. Human nature flows through time. All things come under this command. And it can be violent and un forgiving.

    Throwing “Scientology” on the table as the continuous item when it is not, as a coin, or a reason it is not is just part of the violence that is possible.

    People are happy, content, intelligent, merciful, symbiotic, at peace with themselves, and in ARC with the world and the people in it not because of Scientology, but because of who they are, what they have done, and who they have been.

    People are angry, discontented, unintelligent, vengeful and hateful, in personal conflict and torture, out of ARC with themselves and the people in the world not because of Scientology, but because of who they are, what they have done, and who they have been.

    Education, experience, ownership and responsibility, habits, and choices, perceptions, can greatly alter these conditions. But again, this revolves around personal character and those potentials and purposes.

    You can place two men in a forest. One will use the trees to build a home. Plant food. Build a village. The other may use the forest to hide in the brush there to assault and rob travelers. The forest becomes something different to both men. It has a different meaning and purpose to both people. And it is all real.

  12. Now, the man who uses the forest for plunder and pillage. He will find a mate through that plunder and pillage. He will appropriate one for himself through plunder. And that mate will become bitter on some level. Because that mate will be set up for losses. And their children will become bitter. And the forest once traveled will become isolated because it will become known as a dangerous area. The family and families created will not have resources such as medicine, education, and other tools with building and defense. And that part of the forest and the people in it will be forced to forage, endure, and suffer without. And that man who once entered the forest with such enthusiasm for plunder and pillage, he will dominate them all. But he will pass from the world bitter about many things, especially the conditions. And with bad memories of how unkind the forest was to him. And never ever understand that he created all of that shit.

  13. And this is why there is a wide space between Marty and the others. Marty stepped out and said, “Things are not alright. I had something to do with things going right and things going wrong. And this is what they are. And this is what we can do to FIX SOME SHIT and SALVAGE SOMETHING.”

    These other people, you heard them. “I spent 35 years over there and that place is a just a hell hole”. “And I was in charge!” Or, “And I had the power!”

    Just like your career, marriage, family, church, school, occupation. Scientology was what it was and is what it is, because of who you are.

    Believe it or not, most people who get involved with it are perfectly aware of that. There are just a few screamers out here making a whole lot of noise. You can count them on a few hands. Causing all sorts of excitement. Leading all sorts of charges and assaults against that culture. This did not start with Scientology, and it will not end there. This is going to be a reoccurring nightmare through out time.

    And the people involved in Scientology should take a lesson from this. Lay of their own assaults on cultures and people. Other people have the right to be here and do their thing. That includes other people curious about mental health. This will NEVER be a UNIFORM society. Never, That would mean NO FREEDOM or individuality.

  14. Dan, do you have a quote? I did a word search on the book SOS and the word “homosexual” doesn’t appear, nor does any form of it.

  15. Hallucinatory cause, control, and responsibility are just as toxic as being wholly oblivious about it.

    How Tony Ortega, who has never had an experience in or with Scientology, managed to squeeze into this theater and position himself as any significant player is just beyond me. Just desperate for a part in this theater from lack of any other invitations to be someplace else is my guess.

  16. His “knowledge” is wholly hallucinatory.

  17. Been a while since I looked at it, but didn’t Hubbard also say in SOS that there were some columns that were more definitive than others? Like Handling of Truth for example, I believe was one. What I definitely don’t recall was the sexual column being one of the “definitive” columns.

    I guess my point is, that for so-called scientology experts to act like it IS definitive (and I include in and out of church scientologists here) is just plain retarded and smacks of simply wanting salacious gossip material to stoke someone’s Barnum and Bailey idea of what good PR is.

  18. Wow. If it was not released to the public, who was it for? Very curious about that. Anyway, maybe it was true for him. And it could be true for everyone else. It wasn’t true for me.

    I became aware of my sexuality at twelve years old when some guy from school braved his way through my neighborhood to knock on my door. When I opened the door he was grinning ear to ear, He handed me a little puppy dog. I swooned. Puppy love. His name was Eugene Smith. Time went on and he followed me around for most of the school year. After several long months when I refused to really engage, like holding his hand, he got pissed and followed me all the way from school spitting on my back the last day of school. LAUGHTER! Never saw him again as I moved away. But I still remember him giving me a puppy a dog and his name, because of it. Even then, I was only aware of my sexuality because of his imposition so it was still very remote. It was on a via through him. I didn’t have a direct link or thought on that until I 28 years old. Until then my awareness was viewing me through other people’s eyes. Som their awareness, not my own. Sexuality can be imposed or created.

  19. I think anything imposed or enforced is aberrated. So if someone is openly gay and in that condition selectively, I do not think it is aberrated.

  20. Leah accepted an award for programming (that tells you the show was programmed by her) and here is how it goes. Ser Fac, make wrong to the givers of the award.

    “I had always hoped to win something for comedy,” Leah Remini deadpanned, picking up her TCA Award win in the best reality-series category, for A&E’s Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath.”


    “Apparently you guys didn’t think I was so funny,” the CBS comedy series actress told TV critics.”


    “I spent most of my life being told the world outside Scientology would fail me, that I would fail, and that without it I wasn’t worth a whole lot,” (No one I ever met in Scientology would ever utter such statements to someone else, but she never says who told her this) she told critics at their annual awards ceremony Saturday night. “I thank you for proving those theories wrong.”

    Thank you for making them wrong? She thinks they gave her an award to make others wrong? The wrong item she has to throw on them. They do not award people just to prove someone wrong. Total projection.


    It is just the nature of the beast.

  21. He barely mentions homosexuality in SOS so how could he “stigmatize” any more than the Psychiatric profession did at the time by calling it a”mental illness”?

    You say. “(b)ooks have a lot more authority than PLs”. Where exactly did this datum come from?

  22. He most heavily stigmatized in SOS? Come on Dan, it is used as one example. And listen, he never said homosexuals were covert BECAUSE they were homosexuals. NEVER. EVERYONE dubbed that in.

    If your entire culture was against you because of tradition that would make ANYONE DIFFERENT covertly hostile. People that are stigmatized become hostile about it. What about the hypocrisy out here targeting Scientologists for thier hang ups while STIGMATIZING THEM? If you really CARED about this a person would not be doing it.

    Look at all of the so called Scientologists that have left and now are complaining about things that happened 30, 40 or 20 years ago and making fun of that identity. They were covertly hostile also. And they are not gay. They have hostilities that became overt once they left.

    Show me a person on Earth that has not had to keep their hostilities covert. Sometimes it is for the greatest good to keep a lid on it. You yourself have been blowing up all over the place about Scientology for years. That is not because you “let it all out” when you were in.

  23. People growing weed in their basements when it is illegal are covertly hostile. If they have to sneak they are resentful about the oppression. Amy Scobee and Mark Headly wrote books complaining loudly after they left to “let it all out”. Everyone out here screaming overtly about something that happened way back when has become overt about their hostilities. I have no idea why you would assume every Scientologist would love gay people if Hubbard didn’t write a book. Scientologists are also HUMAN BEINGS that live in a society where this is STILL TABOO in certain areas on this planet. Why can’t you think of them as simple human beings who may be out of ARC with this thing because they do NOT understand it? And they have ideas of their OWN? What is fine in the East Village of New York is total taboo 20 miles away in Staten Island with homosexuality. Do you think all of those people have a book by Hubbard under their bed? You have dehumanized Scientologists for so long, you can not consult their own humanity.

  24. Everything you, and the ASC have been devoted to for years, is to dehumanize and stigmatize Scientologists. If Hubbard made a slight over half a century ago about a segment of our culture, and it really upsets y’all, why have you been totally devoted to doing the same thing half a century later to another culture? If what Hubbard did offended y’all so much, why are you doing the exact same thing? You guys are really unbelievable. Hypocrites.

  25. You guys do not disgust me because you are anti-Scientologists. You disgust me because you dehumanize their people and stigmatize them and that is anti humanity.

  26. I have read that scientifically women “reach a sexual prime at 26 and men at 32”. I think they missed the mark on that. I just think at those ages people have enough control over their own lives to come into a sexuality that is not imposed on them. A self-determined one. That is around the age where people stop maneuvering for survival and are somewhat grounded enough to think about who they really are and what they want. They are in command of their environment enough to let themselves flow into things beyond survival. They can move out of the enforcement band.

  27. Good point, Virginia – in fact, one of the key points in this whole series of videos. What it basically comes down to is sensationalism, and yellow journalism or the like.

    “sensationalism: (especially in journalism) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement. ”

    “yellow journalism: journalism that is based upon sensationalism and crude exaggeration.”

  28. Let me be clear, The Oracle, I am not part of the ASC in the slightest. In fact I work with the independent field to make materials available to any who want them. What I AM anti is David Miscavige and what he has done to destroy everything LRH did in his life. In fact, if not for DM, we would all likely still be happily progressing and involved inside the organization. DM is my beef, not you or LRH or even Marty or anybody else. Are we clear?

  29. The way I see it. Is that Marty became aware of the actual scene and the actual game being played by the ASC.

    I mean anyone who associates with a bottom feeding low life like Back Page Tony has no real moral authority to complain about Scientology or anything else for that matter without seeming like a bunch of raving hypocrites.

  30. Marcel Wenger

    Dan, I trained at Saint Hill and run a Scientology Mission in Switzerland in the seventies and the above policy was certainly applied in my mission and to my knowledge in orgs and missions worldwide.

  31. Scientology does have it’s atrocities, both in the subject matter and in some of the people’s behaviors. But, when it comes to SOS, they should not have sunk so low as to INVENT atrocities.

    Unless they were deliberately trying to cause conflict and war…

    “A handy rule for arousing hate is, if at first they do not enrage, use an atrocity. It has been employed with unvarying success in every conflict known to man.
    – Lasswell, 1927 Propaganda Technique in World War, You can view the 1938 reprint at Hathitrust.

    URL – http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015000379902;view=1up;seq=11

    An army standing on quicksand isn’t much of an army.

  32. Sorry if I put a wrong item on you about your group affiliation.

    Finding a hard time doing the math on you not being “part of the ASC in the slightest”, with your contributions to the ASC movement. But I could have assumed the alliance with Tony Ortega and his ASC cyber cult was more than it was.

    Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations about the accuracy of Ron …

    Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations about the accuracy of Ron Miscavige’s ‘Ruthless’ … Posted by Tony Ortega on September 13, 2016 at 07:00.

    Dan Koon, co-writer of Scientology tell-all ‘Ruthless,’ on his days with L …

    Sep 3, 2016 – He interviewed Dan Koon, the former high-ranking technical expert in the Church of Scientology who, after leaving the organization in 2004, …

    Scientology Studies « The Underground Bunker
    Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations about the accuracy of Ron … “en_US”;var hupso_url_t=”http://tonyortega.org/2016/09/03/dan-koon-cowriter-of- …

    Scientology Insider Dan Koon – Part 1 of His Story | The Scientology …

    Sep 3, 2016 – Former Sea Org member Dan Koon worked in the compilations unit of Scientology (RTRC) where Hubbard’s writings were turned into official …

    Tony Ortega on Twitter: “Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations …

    Sep 13, 2016 – tonyortega.org …. Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations about the accuracy of Ron Miscavige’s #Scientology memoir ‘Ruthless’ http://bit.ly/

  33. I missed “the above policy” you refer to?

  34. It is telling when you can overlook human slavery with the left hand, especially when it involves selling children for sexual abuse. And with the right hand get down right demonic about hippies exploring the occult.

    Anyway, Tony is on the verge of having all the fame he always wanted. He is going to become very famous. Dreams come true!

  35. “But, when it comes to SOS, they should not have sunk so low as to INVENT atrocities. Unless they were deliberately trying to cause conflict and war…”

    Yep. And dare I say it’s possible they began with an MU and consequently committed the overt? (Don’t shoot me. 🙂 )

  36. Marcel Wenger

    mentioned above by DAN 350

  37. Marcel Wenger

    I of course ran and not run a Scientology Mission in the seventies. I would also like to mention that I don’t think Scientology would have boomed, as it did back then, had LRH’s 1967 Policy, SECOND DYNAMIC RULES not been applied. DM’s later sectarian treatment of the 2D IMHO did more harm than many suspect.

  38. Regarding sea org personnel slaving seven days a week for $25/week, I was mostly a public (non staff) person during my participation which ended in 1983. I regarded sea org personnel as simply people who had accepted it as a full time job. If their lives were horrible, deplorable or whatever it was not widely known. Descriptions of abuse are usually made on the blogs by people who were in it years ago. I don’t know if current conditions are any better or if they are worse.

    I’m not defending the CoS Inc. but just pointing out the narrative that sea org personnel are slaves and and “the government” should step in and free them.

  39. Self-Creating wrong ideas can certainly be a factor, that’s for certain, Marildi.

  40. Sometimes I drink a little too much. OH HI OSA, you little pecckers. Ever had sex ?

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