From page 95 of What Is Wrong With Scientology?:
Mark my words: Scientology Inc. will present to Scientologists, as one of the first ‘proofs’ of the dangers of reading this book, its references to, excerpts from and recommendations to read books written by mental health professionals.
Quotation from Scientology Inc.’s primary anti-Marty Rathbun website (one of 35 it operates):
It must be, he thinks, since one of Rathbun’s best “PC’s (and best friends) shook Marty to the core by abjuring Scientology (and any further “auditing” from Rathbun,) and instead referring Marty to a psychology text that has now superceded Rathbun’s shallow understanding of Scientology and become his guiding light. He refers to it and quotes from it liberally, and it’s become part of the core of whatever spinny mass constitutes Rathbun’s understanding of life.
Yet Rathbun still pretends to practice Scientology, declaring level completions, and combining what little he understood of it with what he’s learned from his “cognitive therapist” friends…
...Rathbun spent a couple of decades hiding the fact that he didn’t understand Scientology basics, and can only try to compare Scientology principles to Psychology texts and principles now, even going so far as to imply that some of them were the unaccredited source of LRH’s discoveries. Unable to make Scientology work for him, Rathbun reverts to a psychology framework to try and understand life and the mind – or more likely, to try and find an excuse for his own severe aberrations that doesn’t force him to be accountable for his actions.
Scientology Inc. supreme leader David Miscavige apparently is incapable of ethics change. Ethics Change definition (my definition): Acting pursuant to, thus demonstrating the health and presence of, conscience. Ethics change is marked by the ability to change one’s viewpoint and behavior toward the betterment of one’s fellows and environment. Antonym: No Ethics Change: Habitual, hardened criminal attitude and behavior resistant to and seemingly incapable of reform.
Incidentally, I publish Miscavige’s indictment of me as a strong recommendation to read and recommend What Is Wrong With Scientology? Healing Through Understanding.
Ah well. All of that babble on the anti-marty site is to be excpected from the Feckless Peckerhead David Miscavige.
Nowhere does he explain why he wanted you to audit his best buddy Tom Cruise.
DM should be worried about his best bud, Tom Cruise. Tom’s liable to get really mad at DM for assigning Marty as his auditor, what with Marty’s “shallow understanding” of the tech. And doesn’t that mean that all of TC’s auditing should be up for (expensive) review. Maybe he’s not really clear (like the rest of us weren’t). I see dollar signs ahead.
Bad Marty. How dare you acknowledge that anyone in the universe besides DM, and maybe LRH, have a brain and can think with it.
The nitwittery that oozes out of the church gets nitwittier every day.
“Rathbun reverts to a psychology framework to try and understand life and the mind –”
Every Scientologist around the world may sue me now for blasfemy
Fundamentals of Thought, L. Ron Hubbard, 1956, Bridge Publishing, 1983 edition, p. 7.
“Scientology is a branch of psychology which treats of [sic] human
“his best buddy”
Does anyone else feel uncomfortable about the ‘Olympic’ theme of this 2007 IAS video?
This is part 2/2. Note the group carrying torches at 0:10 and 0:58, 3:26 etc, and the “continental marathon raising awareness in 90 cities” with a torch-bearing athlete at 0:36. People with flags in many places eg 1:57. Also London is ‘the most important city on Earth’ at about 4:48
Exhibit 2 in support of proposition that there has been no ethics change.
Good eye CD.
“.Rathbun spent a couple of decades hiding the fact that he didn’t understand Scientology basics…”
No, on the contrary, he has spent the last few years clearly demonstrating that not only do you guys not understand the basics (because you’ve gone the effect of “DM-basics,” aka feckless foolishness) but he can that he can actually integrate, think with, and apply them.
My goodness Marty, you really have been a bad boy haven’t you! LOL! (and believe me, I really am laughing out loud!)
david miscavige: a sociopath who has never in his entire life audited any pc to an excellent result and has no valid tech cert of any kind, slandering a good auditor who does have rave success stories from his real pcs.
Is there even one person left in the Co$ who is capable of evaluating data?
One thing needed in data analysis is reliable information from a source who has a track record of providing reliable data. Another is familiarity with an ideal scene so one can assess the existing scene and know with some level of intelligence how to move the existing to a realistic ideal.
The only thing miscavige has any real skill in is inval and implanting. And, based on the vast numbers of people leaving his station, he’s not even very good at that. A planet of 7 billion people and he’s down to his last 10 or 15 thousand. Totally downstat, dave.
Right on. That simple fact completely dead-agents that pathetic hate-crime of a site.
Or should that be “peckerless feckhead”? I get so confused……
I wonder, are corporate Scientologists allowed to visit these hate sites? Most likely not. So then who is the intended public? Probably same as those radio ads in Livingston last 4th.
DM is not a Scientologist. No training and no auditing NOT a Scientologist!!!! He is delusional and would make the world a better place if he would just go away. JUST GO AWAY, DAVID! YOU ARE WASTING OUR OXYGEN. He is the squirreliest squirrel of all time. Copper grounding rods, indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pitiful excuse of a person, filled with hatred. Hitler was like that. Think about it. Go to a concentration camp and read about things SO similar to DM ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Amen to that – “Minerva” & Co. couldn’t pay anyone to read their drivel.
Reminds me of the movie “Matrix”:
Morpheus (to Neo): It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave Neo…
More likely it’s exhibit 20,000 + 1
The Pied Piper of Ponzi plays his Piccolo to his People
(the Sheeple) oblivious to the next round of “fleecing”
on it’s way, Miscavology Mind Control makes it happen!
So who needs ethics, when you’re just so smart it hurts?
“…Rathbun spent a couple of decades hiding the fact that he didn’t understand Scientology basics,”
So, we’re to believe that the Inspector General of the RTC and Tom Cruise’s personal auditor never understood Scientology basics? It is so absurd that the “handle” for Marty is to say he never understood Scientology. I think they would be better off with a story that Marty has been possessed by a member of the 5th Invader force and is now working for an evil Cabal that is trying control this sector of the Galaxy. At least that would explain how he went from a good guy to a bad guy. Instead they just say he was bad all along. I think it sucks to be Miscavige, when you screw things up this badly there is just no argument that can be made.
DM is wasting his time trying to discredit Marty. Too much information is out and any rational person can easily find the truth. DM’s house of cards is crashing down and in his desperation he can only use disconnection and other types of intimidation to keep people in line.
I think the whole think about being a slave doesn’t quite fit this specific instance, but I can’t edit the post… darn. I think the first sentence by Morpheus is priceless. I think it could very well summarize the entirety of the current scene with the church. Just looking at what they say about Marty, it makes me very angry somehow. It’s total alter-is and a fabrication of something that is simply not there. Why can’t these people just acknowledge things as they are and move on with truly growing Scientology? Why does everything have to be so perverted and alter-ised? This must be a sign of some real insanity.
I’ve only looked at some of those sites a few times because they were mildly interesting due to the sheer insanity of the author- the psychotic, hateful ramblings of an obvious psychopath. I can’t imagine anyone reads it any other way.
I stumbled across this definition. Based on all the information out on him now I think this pretty much describes Miscavige to a T:
Exactly! Forget foot bullet — this one is a foot nuke! What is it that LRH says . . . something about the not-quite-bright having a button on self-importance? DM, you self-important twit, your not-quite-brightness is showing again . . .
I suggest you change your username (look it at in any Spanish →English dictionary).
P.S.: If you are an OSA bot: don’t change this user name.
The explanation for that is easy. When Marty was auditing TC he was a good and standard auditor. However, as soon as he left Co$dm he simply forgot all he knew. His mind stayed in Hemet, as he was not able to walk through the gate with it. As we all know, if you leave the auspices of dm, you immediately become ignorant. That is how powerful he is.
These hate web sites put up by the Church illustrate their social and cultural illiteracy and have devastating consequences in out P.R. as they read like a pubescent teen ranting on twitter.
Now THAT’S funny. Ha. Hee, hee. Haaaaaa, “yawn”. Beautiful.
Thank you for this quote. I was actually looking for it, but wasn’t able to find it sofar. Thanks. I suppose this line has been taken out in the newer editions?
Truth of the matter is these hatesites and Freedumb are living proof of what everyone (except maybe the clubbedest (?) of the clubbed seals) knows about the RCS:
1. They have an unabiding hatred and disdain for anyone and everyone who fails to kiss the er… ring of the Pope. Question the diminutive one’s infallibility and you will soon be the object of his ridicule and demeaning side (that is 360).
2. They are living in such a glee of insanity bubble that they don’t recognize that their OWN statements are more damning than anything “critics” say about them.
When you can reprint their “ultimate D/A’s” as a badge of honor and promotional piece, you know they stepped off the deep end a loooong time ago.
Marty, believe me, I think I have met more people who finally had the cognition about the RCS as a direct result of reading Freedumb than any other single thing.
Miscavige’s motto: Stupid is as stupid does.
I visited the anti-Marty site just for kicks. It was a little hard to find by Googling “Marty Rathbun” but it did show up at the bottom of my results page. After reading a bit I honestly guffawed at the pitiful attempt to portray Marty as a psychopath. It really is pretty hilarious. Then, of course, the links to all the other BItter Defrocked Apostates lead to sites that portray each of them in the same cookie-cutter approach.
Sorry, Diminutive Dave, your bullshit only makes people think better of Marty and, more importantly, less of you – if that is possible.
Of course, it now reads: “Scientology embraces and treats of human ability.”
But still in there, apropos of the comment I just made, is this:
“The mission of Scientology is not conquest — it is civilization. It is a war upon stupidity, the stupidity which leads us toward the Last War of All. To a Scientologist, the real barbarism of Earth is stupidity. Only in the black muck of ignorance can the irrational conflicts of ideologies germinate.”
Miscavige — that was written for you.
There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are goddamn lies. The corporation’s anti-Rathbun site is littered with all of them.
As others have pointed out, simple logic tells even the worst dullard, that if what they say about Marty is true, then he wouldn’t have been entrusted to audit the cult’s most prized Kool-Aid drinker.
And this stuff about him pretending to deliver real Scientology outside the reach of the Schutzstaffel is pure bunk. The ‘church’ hasn’t seen the sort of success stories his PCs write, in decades.
Oh, and for my fellow grammar police…
“Rathbun reverts to a psychology framework to try and understand life and the mind – or more likely, to try and find an excuse for his own severe aberrations that doesn’t force him to be accountable for his actions.”
Try AND find?????
Just an evaluation: he is running out of options … I mean, he tried everything, but in the end nothing really worked. Of course not, because they were all lies. There’s only one thing that works: the truth. But that is the thing he cannot confront.
“2. They are living in such a glee of insanity bubble that they don’t recognize that their OWN statements are more damning than anything “critics” say about them.”
This is sooth! Through a combination of the 35 websites, statements like “Fastest Growing….drek”, “There is no disconnection”, “every inch”, categorical denials and Truth revealing revelations of a gulag with Korean brainwashing techniques being applied in his back yard – Dear Leader David Miscavige is actually the butt of many jokes, in the real world and households worldwide.
This takes place in not only the media every day, but now in promoting new Games software, Teen novels, and becoming more widespread. DM is a joke is the mainstream stable datum, through his own actions.
Palehorse — this is written (dictated) by Miscavige. It is one of his constructs.
Somewhat off-topic here, but oh so relevant to the overall picture.
North Korea’s Key to Olympic Medals: Refrigerators For Winners, Labor Camp Threat for Losers
The whole thing is worth reading, but here are some salient quotes. Remind anyone of those sickening “success stories” and “acceptance speeches” that are not allowed unless they mention “COB” (now officially renamed “shining chairman supreme commander of the bored”).
Gold medalist Kim Un-Guk, who set an Olympic record in 62-kilogram weightlifting, dutifully attributed his triumph to their leader Kim Jong Un.
“I won first place because the shining Supreme Commander Kim Jong Un gave me power and courage,” he told reporters in London.
An Kum-Ae, who won her gold in the women’s judo 52-kilogram division, said, “I cannot be any happier than right now for I can give my gold medal to our great leader, Kim Jong Un.”
Cat Daddy: Oooh, Buuuuuuurrrrrrrnnnnn!!! 😀
Michael A. Hobson
The top two results for “Feckless Peckerhead” now on Google from this blog. No result for peckerless feckhead yet. 🙂
As I was reading COS’s words, I was waiting for the word “moreover” or the phrase “the world over” to be inserted in there somewhere. You know, Sherman speak.
Last time as someone from the church tried to handle me with “handlings packs”, I said: “I don’t want to read so much entheta about people – I don’t think this would anser the questions re upper management I asked. I need answers, not more entheta.”
I rattle my head if I consider how many people OSA literally urge to go off the lines with this “handlings”.
They’re just stupid. They can’t see the inevitable consequencies of their handlings, press releases, “squirrle busters” and all this crap.
The truth is, they can’t fill the vacuum with correct data.
This is one of those sentences which convinced me that Scientology is something worth to join.
And the amount of stupidity I witnessed in the last two years alone was the reason I left.
Miscaviges demonstration of logic is… stupidity.
The torch marches have an outright scary similarity with torch marches 1933 in Germany. And so is the language. “Bringing down the hammer”, “Fight evil forces…”, “Unleashing an lethal assault..”. This could have been written by the same guy who wrote the German Nazi propaganda films.
Oh wait, it may actually the same guy.
On another subject.. during the Olympics NBC ran a promo for the Brian Willams show Rockcenter. Has a clip of you saying “can you handle the truth?”, along with the President and others. Looking good bruthuh.
The IAS reshaping the destiny of Earth ……. now THERE’S a scary, scary proposition for you. There’s a website by the way of the “Young Communist League.” Yeah, they’re still going. Someone should probably tell them that the 1930’s ended a long time ago. Thus with the IAS. A diminishing handful of individuals on the planet even know that the IAS exists and many of us who do know don’t care if it exists or not.
Reading the Freedumb Magazines, actually make you more “dissaffected” with the pope, etc. It sure created that effect on me and got my head out of the sand for good.
A few months ago an old friend who was on OTVII at the time sent me an excited email that he had discovered the source of my own situation with the CoS which came to a head about 6 years ago. It had been discovered that there was an SP on the cycle !!!!!!!!!! Yes, I responded, there was one SO person who was very abusive, threatening to me at two different locations in the USA and who I felt was “out to get me.” My friend did not remember the name of the identified SP who was on the lines, but only that THIS person was behind all the terrible things I was experiencing from a number of terminals in the CoS. Interesting. I later asked my friend if he had found out who the SP was. My friend still did not have a name, but then started describing the person who had “been on the lines” and “set the abusive policiy” that had been used to handle me. On receiving more data from my friend about this and the source of it (appeared to be SO personnel quoting Freedom magazine) I realized that the person he was referring to was ……… MARTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (my friend still did not know Marty’s name) Yes, Marty Rathbun was the source of the policy and actions that abused me and caused me to leave the Church of Scientology !!!!!! And knowing this person was now off the lines was supposed to fully indiciate all the charge to me – ahhhhhhh……. he’s gone ……. life is beautiful again. Folks, this is the idiocy of the CoS black PR lines, but what never fails to impress me as truly shocking is that all this PR/unexamined bullshit which is put forth about any individual the CoS is against, IS SIMPLY FUCKING BELIEVED by the sheeple. And it doesn’t seem to matter if the particular sheep is on OT VII or whatever higher states of awareness. Sorry, just this fact alone is a terrible indictment of the closed religious society of the Church of Scientology and it’s hold on individuals and a stain on the upper levels as well as some sort of objective universal truth of greater awareness. (The reason I wrote this post was as a response to the black PR that Marty posted here).
Does Anybody read those 35 websites and Who would even want to? Another example of waste and off purpose.
That’s a great definition Marty.
The bots are very easily controlled since they are not permitted to look at both viewpoints they have to swallow all the pablum that is fed to them.
Sad, very sad…
“Feckless Peckerhead David Miscavige”. Simple, simply brilliant! 🙂
1. Ineffective; incompetent; futile; having no sense of responsibility; indifferent; lazy
2.a. That of which has no worth, validity, use(s).
2.b. Useless. a waste of time.
3. Worthless. Useless. Of no value.
1. One who has a penis for brains, and no social skills.
2. A name that you call someone that really pisses you off.
I still think you are maintaining a static with ridges.
Good one Cynthia!!
I read it, sickening. Sounds like something DM would do (or has already figuratively done many times). The way these athletes are quoted as “how proud they are to give the gold medal to the supreme leader” shows how a whole country can be brainwashed. Incredible.
I would love to take credit, but it was really the brilliant Jim Logan who came up with this one.
Excellent sleuthing CD and Mike,
“Only in the black muck of ignorance can the irrational conflicts of ideologies germinate.”
And down at the very bottom of that black muck you will observe a tiny tiny particle we all know as the Peckerless Feckhead of Planet Earth …the late David Miscarriage.
If you don’t like alter-is, then don’t bother with what Freedom Mag has become. It’s like the whole damn rag is now about Marty, Mike, Amy, Tom, etc. etc. strewn with twisted non-truths and cartoon fabrications. Standard brainwashing for the sheeple with no resemblance to truth.
What’s funny though, Marty’s post prompted a google search for “Marty Rathbun” and Freedom has been relegated to page 2. Top 10 returns are this site, scientology-cult, village voice, independent uk, etc.
Yea it kinda torques me off too LTC, I just sent Freedom a little message (not that I’m expecting it to do much good), in their request for information box: “It is a sheer and utter shame that Freedom Mag, once dedicated and effectively exposing real crimes against humanity has become a puppet board for Miscavige’s fear mongering and a cover up of his own crimes with twisted facts and outright lies.”
Failed Purpose Karin?
Even more sickening, at the top is a direct link to the Sleazyastical Leader.
Yes, I have seen it 4 times now!
The prediction of human behavior. It is a science! There you have it (or predicted it).
Too bad Scientology Inc is clueless as to how to do that, instead doing chronic wrong-targeting and cat-kicking.
BTW, UK has very serious laws against intentional defamation, and the Scientology Inc created slander sites are indubitably criminally malicious.
I here’d this on a radio talk show this afternoon and instantly flashed back to all the success story’s read by New OTVIII’s that I had to sit through on The PrisonWinds.
Under Miscavige’s leadership, RSC has morphed into a hate group; a nasty, vile, cunning con of a hate group. True to form Miscavige, the ultimate psych, will accuse Marty of using psychology or however he decides to phrase it. He’ll do anything in a vain attempt to divert the attention off himself. The problem is the horse has already left the barn. People are on to the dwarf and have left in droves. Should Cruise ever leave and be vocal about it, they’ll have to put DM in a rubber room.
Miscavige’s mission now is to hold on to the few remaining sheep he’s got left. Forget dissemination. Even he knows that’s a bust. Ain’t nobody walking in the door. So he desperately tries to hold on to & control the few that are still licking his boots and handing over all their money.
It is Glee of Insanity. You said it better than I did.
It actually aligns fully with the vibe on ESMB.
‘Tis the return of Albert Speer and Leni Riefenstahl, Hitler’s architect/political set designer and propaganda filmmaker!
I see these torches and think of the mob going after “The Beast.” Mindless mob being stoked by the midget.
The only individuals who could possibly be bothered by Marty thinking freely, investigating and studying knowledge are people who with fundamentalist mind sets. Closed systems if thinking. Maybe thinking is the wrong word.
The very idea of attacking someone on their interest in studying and broadening their knowledge is like having a bullhorn and announcing to the world “I’m an Idiot”
Miscavige, the real world applauds people who like learning. It’s called philosophy: love of knowledge you knuckle head!
I saw it too. Kicks ass.
That except from the website is written in classic CoS Miscavigespeak. Literal translation:
“Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. Natter. Generality. etc.”
In the early 1990ties being on Nots I noticed grave out tech and out policy in combination with unbelievable stupidity and robotism on part of tech personell. Well, people are not perfect and one can always do something about it, especially at the Mecca of technical perfection. Right ? So I went and started to do something about it, when some fellow OTVs staged an intervention to save my tender little butt. “You cannot do that, your eligibilities will get a lot more expensive, all you get is trouble”.. and it costs you a shitload of more money.These were the people up the OT Levels. The highest stages in Scientology. If they saw a pile of shit they ran, as they know even looking at it could raise temptation to do something about it and boy they knew, that would cost them. That was the mindset 1993.
No wonder these days they believe any amount of bullshit they are told. They checked their responsibility and search for truth at the front door of the Fort Harrison.
Yes indeed, moving on up… it’s pretty damn significant if you think about it.
Absolutely Cat Daddy. After all, what is psychology but the study of the spirit? Of course one would have to “know how to know” (scientology) in order for a human to understand and exist in harmony with the spiritual (and physical) universes.
LRH simply undercut the missing (too-steep) gradient to spiritual enlightenment that was inhibiting mankind’s evolution to higher states of being by developing a practical way to increase human ability.
Last time as someone from the church tried to handle me with “handlings packs”, I said: “I don’t want to read so much entheta about people – I don’t think this would anser the questions re upper management I asked. I need answers, not more entheta.”
Coming from a pure point of admiration, one might say that they’ve constructed a beautiful trap for themselves. I mean, look at it. To get out of the trap they’re in now, they’d have to tell the truth about everything that’s been written about them these last thirty years. Frighteningly enough, much of it was true (as has been thoroughly documented by a preponderance of eye-witness testimony on this site and elsewhere). It just so happens that most of the critics were right all along, and in a lot of cases, even more right than they knew.
The organization once told a small lie and got away with it. They then told a slightly bigger lie to cover the first one. Then they told an even bigger lie to embellish their credentials and hide the truth behind the smaller lies, forever. But then some critics saw that things weren’t adding up, and so they told some even bigger whoppers to cover up the real truth from the public, and shut their critics down.
And so it went. Each lie compounding the earlier lies – compacting all of the alter-isness into something like a black hole that took on a life of its own, and began sucking the very life force out of the perpetrators and their cowed minions. Now all that’s left, is an out of control machine that is composed of pure rot, evil, criminality, brutality, pain, diminished awareness, stupidity, and brute force. It doesn’t even know what it’s fighting for any longer. It merely seeks to survive through any means necessary.
The organization has turned into nothing but a dramatizing reactive bank, as far as I can see. Like all cases which are denied auditing (which is literally facing the actual TRUTH), the bank is growing larger by feeding on the dwindling theta remaining in the group.
At this point, I’d say the pc is at least highly neurotic, and could even be completely psychotic. It’s a case of ‘no auditing’.
Every time I hear a spokesperson for Miscavige-Scientology INC say anything about anyone critical of Scientology – it is just so stupid! They really do make fools of themselves and they do not sound like any Church people would have anything to do with. Do they really think the public likes their “canned responses”!
Is “every” critic really a bitter, defrocked apostate?? REALLY? They really are idiots and I hope they continue doing this – it is keeping those Ideal Orgs nice and EMPTY!!
Good Point, ThetaPotata. And, let’s just ponder this statement for a moment….
“…Rathbun spent a couple of decades hiding the fact that he didn’t understand Scientology basics,” …..
what would that say about the management skills of Miscavige, the “Chairman of the Bored”, if he took 20 years to notice that his Inspector General was a phoney and a flake?
Ouch, Dave! Another one of them thar foot bullets!
He must be walking on his ankles by now. Does he think that this logical conclusion doesn’t occur to anyone of below average intelligence and above? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to draw that conclusion from the data you provide. Even cool aid drinkers see it, even though they won’t voice that thought.
And then there is a further conclusion that might occur to just about anyone….that MISCAVIGE may be a lying, covert suppressive, evil minded person who has, himself, fooled a lot of people, and that HE is attacking people of good will who actually care about the subject (the religion) of Scientology. Just a “possibility”.
“The criminal mind accuses others of things that he himself is doing.” Verbatim drill from the 4th re-do of the Golden Age of Tacky PTS-SP Course.
It sucks to be Slappy McSavage.
air conditioning for the winners, slop and the penalty box with TC, for the losers
OMG! Jim Logan has created a meme phrase!
Next, get feckless peckerhead and david miscavige to show up together in his many monikers:
feckless peckerhead = dwarf
feckless peckerhead = slappy
feckless peckerhead = runt
yes, I have regressed to 12-years-old. Hey, I’m getting younger! 😀
Alas, it is a shame that penises should suffer such derision by association…
Scilonschools…… I certainly don’t feel uncomfortable about it because it is such over the top BS. I hate to say it but people attracted by this nazi style propaganda almost deserve to be fleeced.
ROFL! Beautiful alliteration!
Oh, lovely! I assumed that was the case.
I am curious why Diminutive Dave thought the public would not catch on to the changes in writing styles between genuine LRH and RTC simplified double-speak. Even as a newbie in the early 90s, I noted a distinct change in verbal mannerisms from HCOBs and HCOPLs issued in earlier decades – 1950s and 1960s and even early 1970s. Early issues sounded like LRH’s mannerisms in his taped lectures. Later issues seemed sterilized, and I recall that I could not “hear” LRH’s voice while reading them.
Did LRH make a change in his written delivery language once he stopped giving lectures?
“Thank you Slappy for coercing me to lick the floor so that I may fully appreciate the subtle flavor nuances between dried shit and last week’s gruel in the Hole.”
Exactly my thought! I had to purposefully seek the anti-Marty website to find it. Who is going to stumble upon it by accident? And if they did, why would they care?
One thing he is likely skilled in as it would come naturally to someone of Davey’s stature……………….scratching his peckerhead ……..fecklessly!
BTW, Marty, you freaking ROCK for recommending reading the website dedicated to destroying you. This gesture alone shows how diminutive dave utterly FAILS in his attempt to destroy his rival. All you did was point to his URL and – TADA!!! – He stars in his own spotlight of foolishness.
I can’t tell you how many people joined the group of Ex-Scientologists, Indies, “Under the radar” and “Side liners” from reading those hate web sites !
If they ONLY knew !
Don’t you mean Fort Frankenstein?
My initial thought at the first event I ever attended was that I was in a time warp and had landed in a Nuremberg Rally.
Classic RB interpretation, mon ami!
BTW, Dr Frankenstein’s product was definitely more acceptable,and even that was a monster!
I feel safe in the company of a she rocket, dear lady!
Where are the stats to be found of the 10 to 15 thousand? I’m not saying that the numbers are wrong, just that they seem a little high, given the dwindling size of orgs since the 70s. When I got in, it was fun. Since Jan. 24 of ’84, it progressively changed, dropping down the tone scale to expressed resentment and worse. Who needs that crap?
I recieved this interesting LRH quote via email today from the Freewinds OT Ambassador I/C Int. I truly doubt she saw the irony of LRH’s words in light of what’s going on in the “church” today. It seems especially applicable to the garbage that site pumps out to church members about Marty and other independents.
“The main thing I’m trying to point up here is that a society gets
headed in the direction of avoidance. It gets headed in the direction of
fear and so becomes controllable. It is an overt mechanism on the part of
anything or anyone seeking to control a society to cut the communications of that society.
“The way to guarantee a slave society-guarantee it-would be to
teach safety across the boards. That’s just one method. But that method,
all by itself, would make successive generations of children more and more
difficult in their own sphere of operation. They would be afraid to go into
communication with. And when you say, ‘Be careful, don’t do this, don’t do
that, stop here, stop there,’ you’re saying, ‘Don’t go into communication
with, don’t go into communication with, don’t go into communication with.
You mustn’t communicate with.’ And this is dramatized, ‘Don’t communicate
with little Johnny, he stutters and therefore, you’ll stutter. Don’t go
into communication with Bobby. He’s got bacteriosis and that will be the
end of you. Don’t go into communication with that nasty old man down the
street who carries that dirty candy around in his pockets, because it’s
dirty and this will make you very ill.’
EXTERIORIZATION 28 JUNE 1954 ACC #7
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Herr Adolf Miscavige,
true to form of a rampant psychopathic dictator, mirrors
the behaviour pattern of his “Third Reich” predecessor,
in at least one respect: Setting up “machinery” for his
propaganda wars! The enormous printing, packaging and
“publishing” facility, complete with the glossy, global gumph
bragging of it’s “unprecedented expansion, the likes of
which, the world has never seen.”
. And to top it off?
Mountainous volumes of paper printing, literally tons and
tons and tons of DM micro managed entheta, & greed driven
drivel, destined for the paper waste collection bins, where
the eventual re-cycling process can begin.
Ironically, it is probably accurate to say, that the recycling of this WASTE, is the ONLY true contribution that Herr David the Dwarf has EVER made to “saving the planet”
C’mon Marty give Li’ll davey SOME credit!
After all, he redefines ALL the concepts of WASTE /
WASTEFUL / WASTED!——— Doesn’t he???
The ol’ proverbial can of worms opened here, perhaps?
It’s just the good old criminal mind accusing others of its own overts.
“It may actually be the same guy” LOL! : ) thanks)
This is just too funny not to reply too!
I have so been enjoying how playful this word grouping has made everyone.
OK…Here’s the tongue twister challenge…say it fast 5 times!
You couldn’t resist trying it, could you! LOL.
That is a good way to start the day!
Absolutely! There is an uncanny resemblence to the overall scene – The RCS gives out KoolAid or the RPF, while North Korea gives out Cool Aid (refridgerators) or labour camps. And North Korean clubbed seals clap (and bow and scrape and grovel) jsut as nicely as those in the RCS. Dave and Kim are birds of a feather.
Exactly! A huge waste of time, money and waaaaay off purpose. Not to mention how unbecoming of a church or any organisation to plunge the depths of undignified behaviour as they do. And as for ‘who would even want to?” – you are so right! I cannot even work out who their target market might be. They have lost all credibility.
On the topic of considering other disciplines and integration – I found the following on an Edgar Cayce website (Edgar Cayce was an American psychic who would go into a trnace like state and speak and his wife and secretary would write down what he said – he tapped into something, and who knows what that is, but it is interesting and worth considering nonethelss):
‘ co-ordinate the teachings, the philosophies of the east, and the west, the oriental and the occidental, the new truths and the old… Correlate not the differences, but where all religions meet – there is one God…………..Consider a field of corn. In the grain of corn there is life. Man plants it in the soil, works it, and the he reaps the harvest. Not every man selects the same kind of corn. Not every man pows it alike. Not every man sows it alike. Not every
man reaps it alike. Yet, in each case it brings forth the very best that there is. It is the God or th elife within eahc grain that the man is seeking. It sustains his body, and produces enough seed to raise more. That’s religion. That’s the denominations” Reading 9991- 1.
I definitely consider my page on the cult’s Religious Freedom Watch hate site as a badge of honor. For the past 7 years I’ve been sending friends, family, lawyers and media people to my hate page just to show them how evil and stupid the cult is. Hey OSA, please update that page. My name is Patty Moher now.
” Ahem! (cough!) After 30 years of toil (active suppression)
and massive personal sacrifices I have made, (ruthless destruction of LRH tech., S.O. staff, public, successful Orgs, missions,groups, top class Auditors and highly trained Admin.,
I now wish to announce to the world, My latest HIGH TECH
” I, THE COB, wish to reveal that intensive, state-of-the-art
research has revealed that our long awaited opening of the
Super Power Building is now imminent !”(yeah, he’s said that every single year for the last 10 years!)
” However, I am further pleased to advise ( brain wash! ) you,
that our dedicated team of tech boffins ( ME! & ONLY ME! )
have “unearthed” an incredible unsuspected, natural booster
to the Super Power Program “( another Sheeple fleecer!)
” Poised to raise a being to hitherto unrealized heights ( of
previously unheard of levels of deception,) I now am PROUD
to announce the release of the SUPA I.Q.ENHANCING COB
APPROVED, CO$ exclusive, MI$CAVOLOGY MUD BATH! ”
“Available to selected (you bet!) $cns (MI$CAVOLOGIST’S) exclusively, and for a limited time only,” ( we know, don’t waste this (all too familiar) opportunity for securing your “eternity”!!)
” We urge you, no, insist, (make that ‘crush reg’ ) that you take
this opportunity to further accelerate your ( My!) efforts
reach the goals you ( I ) have set for yourselves.”( Myself)
“So confident am I, that this is the (My ) most massive step
forward in the advancement of LRH’s (remember him?)
technology, that I will be doing it’s grand launch at the very
next IAS celebration, where I have scheduled a high diving
board “bomb drop” knees tucked in, to an awaiting tub of
the Amazing Miracle Mud Breakthrough!”( naturally, he
anticipates much adulation and applause for his real OT
example of Miscavology brand of “fearless courage!!”)
(Of course, what COB is hoping to accomplish, is to cause
a massive mud spray over a wide area, spraying everyone
in the audience, from head to toe in MUD! (glee of insanity?)
Whereupon he will proudly announce that He won’t be
outdone by Oprah Winfrey, in that He will give away even
MORE valuable freebies than the great ms. O.)
(What he DOESN’T know, is that the set, on stage, is due to
be switched by some double switched props people ( mum!)
The mud “Bath” will be swapped for a bottomless version,
placed over a 50 feet deep hole, and the “miracle mud”
will be replaced with a counterfeit version “quicksand”)
Exciting huh! Can’t wait for the next IAS event! Can you?
oops! meant to say: (…..outdone by Oprah Winfrey,
in that, he has just GIVEN AWAY even MORE
valuable freebies than the great ms.O.)
mmmm, Sinar, lip-smacking material for satirical cartoonists! It’s a pity Marty doesn’t do traffic in my
brand of cartoon submissions! I would really be
in my element here!
Hey, Nancy, somedays I actually make TO 12 years old!!!!! From 8 🙂
Inspired by Mrs. Doyle.
“The reader will find no other definition of ‘Psychiatry’ in this book but the one given on the title page: Clinical Treatise on Diseases of the Forebrain. The historical term for psychiatry, i.e., ‘treatment of the soul,’ implies more than we can accomplish, and transcends the bounds of accurate scientific investigation.”
This is Thomas Szasz, quoting the intro of one Theodor Meynert, from his textbook written in 1884.
Szasz article is here: http://www.szasz.com/freeman13.html
This is changing. The new Defamation Bill proposed in the Queen’s Speech is lessening the burden of proof somewhat as at the moment the threshold for defamation (and possibly libel?) one doesn’t have to prove actual damage.
There is also a clause for web sites where user generated content may fall foul of the defamation laws and now one will be able to resolve any dispute directly with the author initially.
I think this is good news for freedom of speech for the small guy.
You have a combination of things in those later issues. For one, in KSW LRH refers to “compilation” efforts and assistance. That function was carried out by RTRC. LRH Research and Compilations. So, some of those issues are compiled by others, and then submitted to LRH for OK.
Another aspect to this was something anecdotal. My wife Annie told me that LRH was finding that the literacy level of the general population had gone way, way down. He found he would have to write simpler and simpler to get a modicum of duplication. At one point Annie told me he expressed his frustration as a writer at having to do this, and as I recall what she told me was he said “well, I’m NOT going to do this”, i.e., keep going down with the language in order to write to the lowest common denominator of the current level of literacy.
He did write tech films with an aim to bypass the language and provide visual communication so that those that are so ensconced in the TV, visual culture, can SEE what the materials are describing. (Now, Dave has entered his version of Scn into those films, not being satisfied to sabotage only the written materials.)
So, there you. My 2 cents on what you noticed.
“is like having a bullhorn and announcing to the world “I’m an Idiot””
You’ve encapsulated the Int Event.
I’m gonna send it to some of my on-lines friends.
What a great quote.
Amen Hannibal. Shortly after getting involved in Scientology in the 70s I noticed the ‘us against them’ mentality which seemed to be brought from above in that the SO personnel were the apparent perps of that viewpoint. It tended to infect those newly into the subject and acted as a justifier for those receiving criticism from friends and family.
So instead of USING ARC to handle and communicate what was true for the new Scientologist there was a tendency to take the easy road out and just call nay-sayers a bunch of stupid ‘WOGS’. No ‘confront and handle’ but rather what has become the Culture of Dave….’criticize, make wrong and disconnect from’.
Fast forward to the OT Levels and you find the same behavior on steroids….”a willingness to check their responsibility for truth at the door”.
Anagrams for “miscavige” include:
I give scams
For “david miscavige”:
Vivid caged aims
Vivid acid games
Magic ad divvies
Magic diva dives
And my personal favorite:
Magic David vise
Thank you for bringing up that name! I hadn’t thought of Cayce for years. I used to really love reading his work.
Marty, your having quite an effect on the jailers. You have grown in understanding and expanded in influence. Your the greatest threat to their control and spoils. And its working. They cannot move you from your position.
You seem to be able to stay exterior to it all, see things that matter and speak out on them for the greater good. Thats a life worth living. And your surrounded not by the enemy, but by a battallion of the most able, insightful and wisest folks one if ever likely to find connected on the subjects of freedom, thought and spirit. Quite a forum. Quite an opportunity. Despite it being a very serious activity, its great fun for all.
Thanks Cat. For those of us who have the books and tapes pre-DM, they make for interesting comparisons. Some ex-Scientologists have catalogued the alterations from original Hubbard to edited current versions — such as changing the definition of an F/N and the second dynamic.
The altered definition of F/N made it directly possible to invalidate case gain, overrun people, and block progress.
The altered definition of second dynamic made it possible to suppress sex and family by shifting people into creativity in lieu of sex and family, and also gave a way to require SO abortions — instead of abortion being absolutely decried as in book one, the SO could now say “hey, we are not suppressing you on the second dynamic, we are just asking you to shift your focus to the most important part of the second dynamic — creativity, which by the way means endless, thankless, service to SO.
A number of alterations are documented at http://www.freezone.de/english/news/tech-changes/tech_alterations.htm
The most startling one I saw from that website that fits in eerily well with the themes of this blog is:
—–(start of quote from website)—–
“It’s a very simple remedy.And that’s-just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t horde it, don’t hold it; and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because he’s the boy who would be electing himself “The New Order.” And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I am concerned, have been filled.”
New “improved” version
“It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s-just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t hoard it and don’t hold it.”
The rest is SEAMLESSLY deleted
—–(end of quote from website)—–
Could the original version have possible pegged a DM more clearly? And could the revised version have covered for DM any better? (And remember that DM claims personal responsibility for fixing all the “errors” in the originals — a real conflict of interest in this particular quote.
This also illustrates very well the perverse definition of entheta that CoS uses.
Bradley “sideburns” Wiggins dedicated his fantastic gold medal performance in the timed trials cycling (road) event to the late, great John Entwhistle of the Who (the sideburns are also in his honour). Now THAT’s a proper dedication!
Interspersed with liberal helpings of pure, undiluted hatred.
I was on one of these, playing drums, at the Shrine. I counted in the opening tune with four clicks on my drumsticks, 1, 2, 3, 4 KAPOW!!!!!
Pyro explosions that I didn’t know were going to occur. It just about blasted me off my stool. We carried on in this farce, with David Pomerantz running around on the stage until he fell into one of the holes for DM’s prompter and nearly broke his leg. A true pro, he extricated himself from this boobytrap, and we finished the overture.
When I got back to Int I wrote a KR on this debacle touted as spectacle by David Miscavige. I mentioned a comment Annie had on this event, which cost just under $1,000,000 for DM to put on. She said if LRH were there “heads would roll”. DM’s HEAD WOULD ROLL.
So much for the Pope on A Box (an applebox) and his ideas about how to control the “masses” with corn/(rice and beans) and “games”, like “the whole of every org is in Liability for years and years and years…”.
Hmmm, could it be? David Miscavige is feckless? AND a peckerhead? A feckless peckerhead?
Well I guess it’s a kind of literary masturbation. Minerva: “Marty’s a real nasty SP”. Minerva’s alter ago: “Yeah he really is”. Minerva’s other alter ego: “Wow, you are so right, and because Minerva said it, it’s true!”. Ad nauseum to 3-swing F/N.
It may have a somewhat Olympic theme, but what echoed for me is the many parallels with Leni Riefenstahl’s famous Nazi propaganda piece “Triumph of the Will” which I watched not too long ago. The CoS video is laden with similar themes — mass rallies, banners, torches, etc. Even the expansion arrows in one area (while I do not recall them in “Triumph”) are similar to graphics used in military conquest, lending the claimed aim of “planetary salvation” to click in on a subliminal level with “planetary domination.”
Is it conceivable that such cheesy, Naziesque pieces are deliberately designed to look like they are promoting Scientology, while in fact they are subtly designed locks on past suppression that will achieve the opposite — more fear of Scientology?
No flashing and spectacular result in modem times can gainsay the brilliance of achievement of the early searchers in the field of the human mind, for these, out of the morass of superstition and taboo, sorted out the first phenomena vital to the solution of the problem.
Man’s search for the answer to his own riddle was quickened during the last century by two things: the first was the energy and curiosity of Sigmund Freud and the second was the mathematics of James Clerk Maxwell who gave to us the fundamentals of energy.
6 February 1952
I think that somebody missed the development of the subject……
Somebody likes better to stay in the “morass of superstition and taboo”
One of the things about this here Marty’s Blog, is the audience. Among lots of others, David Miscavige reads this every single day. He checks it constantly. His mirror site, the one referred to in the Opening Piece, responds reactively to what is posted here. It’s definitely at the point of Reactive.
OSA/Vince/Minerva/DM note every poster here, get a dossier running, and cross filing, and do their li’l invests into who is who. I give them a break, I post under Jim Logan.
Hey, Dave, g’deye, ha’ya’goin? Do you know how much fun it is to poke you every day? To point you up as the fool you are? (And I’m not talkin’ Tarot Fool here Dave, I’m talking gibbering ijit fool. Y’know, “toon”, caricature, feckless, feckhead type dumbarse kinda fool.)
I can’t resist. Dave, I mean a Jungian Archetype kinda fool. You know, a circuit? Ooops, sorry, used some Dianetic term there that goes over your helmet haired head (which isn’t hard, considering along with your knuckles, your face drags the ground). Check out Jung. He’s a dreaded “psych”, but not the valence YOUR in. That’s a different kind of psych. That’s another archetype. The psych you are. Former Nazi. Present Feckface.
Hi Hap, I got that email too. Love real Scientology! It’s quotes like this that just sends my ARC for the old man out the roof.
It’s a wild scene really. Here’s this great LRH quote, which if the Scientologists still in the Church would follow another LRH quote “LOOK, DON’T LISTEN” they would step back and go “oh shit!”
Periodically I have wandered over to the Church’s Hate Sites. First of all It still isn’t fun having all that crap written about one. So, I wish all our heros didn’t need to go through that, as strong as they are. Having said that, those sites probably create the worst PR of all for the Church and most people reading there will think there is something wrong somewhere…And they may look further, like coming here. (the right move!)
Truth is there is no way those sites were written by Scientologists. More than Anti-Marty or Steve etc… They are Anti-Scientology.
I do however need to thank them for the “Bitter Defrocked Apostate” line. Did we first hear it from Norman Starkey on Anderson Cooper?? Can’t remember. Just cracks me up every time. Kind of like when Christopher Watkins was on SNL with the “we need more cowbell.” Just Funny, Funny Stuff.
Wow Hannibal, important comment. Says a lot!
Maybe they do know. Many of the things at the CofS are so obviously reversed that it makes me wonder whether there are some shadow masters at hand with a plan to erode and destroy the group. That’s how SP’s operate – covertly eroding over a long period of time so that no one can suspect anything until it is too late. That’s how it’s been done with many great movements. There is a whole tech out there on covertly shaping the direction of the masses through propaganda and other means. You can research on Edward Bernays – “the father of modern propaganda” – speaking at length about these things.
In basic, the thing to do is to take over the movement covertly, emphasize it’s key ideas/principles/objectives, and then steer people’s actions to where you want them to go. As an example, the civil rights movements back in the 60’s was subverted into the culture of “drugs and rock&roll” – i.e. self-destruction in order to achieve political aims as opposed to doing something truly effective to do so. So you have in Scientology very noble causes: “Spiritual Freedom,” “Planetary Clearing,” “New Civilization,” but the way to get there is through bankruptcy and apparently obliteration of your personal dynamics. Again key desirable points are emphasized, actions are dictated toward a self-destructive end. I think IAS is a prime example of that. What does the tier donation system have anything to do with being an OT? Basically nothing. See, one becomes an OT through training and processing, but a desirable goal of “being an OT” has been transformed to mean giving away a lot of money to the IAS while the actual path toward reaching that goal has been dwarfed by arbitraries, alterations, and suppressive ethics cycles in addition to prices and/or commitment requirements that place the Bridge out of reach for the majority of the population.
Scientology movement was very strong, and the church could not be destroyed in a more traditional way. People would immediately form up the opposition, and I think the very top few who saw it for what it really was tried back then when it first started happening – what late 70’s, early 80’s? Now Marty is doing it.
Read this and for some reason thought of you Mr Rathbun:
“I mean that there is no way to disarm any man,” said Dr. Ferris, “except through guilt. Through that which he himself has accepted as guilt. If a man has ever stolen a dime, you can impose on him the punishment intended for a bank robber, and he will take it. He’ll bear any form of misery, he’ll feel that he deserves no better. If there’s not enough guilt in the world, we must create it. If we teach a man that it’s evil to look at spring flowers and he believes us and then does it – we’ll be able to do whatever we please with him. He won’t defend himself. He won’t feel he’s worth it. He won’t fight. But save us from the man who lives up to his own standards. Save us from the man of clea conscience. He’s the man who’ll beat us.”
Simple, try “Peckerless Feckhead” on Google now. Ha! (Isn’t it fun acting like you’re 12 again, as Palehorse said?)
Ronn, it’s Nazi propaganda one for one.
I was always ashamed in CofS because of the level of literacy of our leader, DM. He never managed to cover me in his speeches, public appearances, his orders, ( the only writings he would publish). Marty has given a new perspective in all this through this blog and his many writings. There is a rise in Theta here as matters are not shallow and we can really for the first time express our views in crucial and important matters. Scientology here got back to its true literacy standards. It’s not suffocating like in the CofS under DM.
Marty: what books do you recommend by mental health professionals? I really like: What Happy People Know: How the New Science of Happiness Can Change Your Life for the Better by Dan Baker, PhD.
I can see that would be a possible here. I understand what you are considering. How about another view?
In order to have this static, this ridge, you’d need a balance of flows for it to have any real presence or duration.
OK, the thing is, right here on this blog, and with Marty, and all the other dudes and dudettes a playin’, there is an imbalance.
Speed determines potential (that’s mentioned in one of the Emeter books, Understanding the Emeter I think, and for more data look up the “governor” in the fall of 51 lectures, and mentioned in 8-80. Figure out how that would be, practice setting up a couple of terminals and getting different speeds going and you’ll get some reality on this.)
Speed is measured by comparing a relative motion, and the time it takes for a particle to move relative to another. Time is, mechanically, a co-motion of particles. In order to have “co” you have to have at least TWO. No two, no time, as there isn’t any relative motion, no then and now sort of thing.
Here’s the kicker – David Miscavige is an “only one”. You see? He doesn’t have the “co” required to have co-motion, and so he doesn’t have any time. He’s got no way to get speed then, and so there can’t actually be any potential or flow (you again need TWO for those) and so there isn’t any ridge possible here.
You ever notice Dave complaining about how he has no time to do his job? How he takes forever to answer a comm, if at all and when he does, he doesn’t actually answer the original comm?
See, he has no time. He’s an “only one”.
OK, so in this case, he’s a Sitting Feck (not Duck, or Deck). We just keep shooting at him, and taking off feathers. Roiling the water he’s fixed upon, and generally having a blast with this Sitting Feck. He can’t shoot back, since he’d need time to do it, and he’s got none, sitting as a feck in a frozen timelessness.
So, no worries Victoria on any ridge here.
I have been scientologist for 15 years. For a long time I was taking as true the critics of Hubbard against psychology, for example the fact that they were not experimenting.
But today psychology is really a science by doing accurate measurements and using control groups, and every year they find new ways to heal people. For example they found that mindfulness meditation could be used to replace antidepressants, that meditation is increasing the density of gray matter in the brain, etc.
I don’t say it to invalidate auditing, as I had also good results from auditing. But in my opinion, we should use every tech that works. I am for synergy and multidisciplinary approaches. For example I am currently following the Buddhist path and maybe that is possible to create a synergy between Buddhism and Scientology. Buddhism allows things that are not available in Scientology and vice versa.
There is another point: psychology is a living science, with thousands of researchers all around the planet, who find every year new ways to help people, when Scientology is stuck at the point it was when Hubbard left, buried in the mountains for the eternity.
“Scientology is stuck at the point it was when Hubbard left.”
Serenity now, serenity now, serenity now…
Yes, Mike, you are exactly right. When I first began my intensive research into “what happened to Scientology,” I first read Geir Isene’s write-up and then Marty’s info. Out of fairness, I decided to read the Church published materials intended to dead agent Marty. I encountered the very hatred and contempt that I saw as the very attitude that “happened” to the Church, so at odds with the principles of ARC that I was completely offended. As well, the tone level it is written in told me that the “facts” would definitely be distorted, if not completely reversed. But the most incredible statement of all was the admission by the Church that Marty had done all these things, the very things he accused the DM regime of. It was an admission of culpability, at the very least condoning, and it was over a very long period of time. My question was, why was it condoned in the first place? Why wasn’t Marty offloaded immediately? He never was offloaded or comm eved, he is the one who left! Presumably this behavior would have gone on and on if he hadn’t decided to leave.
Then there was the written “confessions” from Marty that had to be either his ethics write-ups or session information. I was chilled to the bone by that. That these tools, intended for rehabilitation, were being used to defame and destroy — that was beyond offensive.
Then one day I got into a discussion with a Sea Org MAA about a messed up individual and the MAA told me that he was just going to keep pushing on the guy and increasing the level of duress until he “came to his senses” and admitted that he was an SP. This was the MAA’s idea of the first step of A to E. Forcing him to admit that he was an SP. And then I understood Marty’s “confessions.” I have to tell you that I was completely horrorstruck. It stood my hair on end.
Is number of bitter apostates that have been defrocked a Birthday Game stat for OSA these days?
He’s also a feckless driver.
Yeah that one kills me. I think they have no idea how stupid and far-removed from the real world that makes them sound.
To study Dave, we would also need to be familiar with W.H. Sheldon and his Somatotypes and Biochemical Typology.
Oh, so THAT’S why Dave’s addicted to scotch!
Yeah, I checked that out a while ago today. Great fun!
Curiosus, interesting post. BTW, are you familiar with:-
# The Factors?
# The Scientology AXIOMS?
# The Dianetic AXIOMS?
# Infinity valued logic?
# The ARC / KRC triangles, and how they impact and assist
your observations above?
Scientology has been defined as knowing HOW to know
(answers) and therefore truly qualifies as a tool, which,
when properly used, shows HOW to acquire ANY knowledge.
The tools in the Scn toolbox, are just not “stuck” nor are they
for “stuck people.” On the contrary, they are intended to be
used for “UNsticking,” or otherwise “waking people up”and
increasing their knowledge, and thereby, there true freedom,
to be, do & have, according to their own free choice.
Nice having comm from you,
Calvin B. Duffield
That’s a good one and matches perfectly for David Miscavige*!
Full name just for rating purposes…..
Calvin, you’re a cartoonist? I think we need T-shirts that read “Feckless Peckerhead Busters” with a caricature of the runt. Hehehe!
Feck definition: A totally repulsive disease-ridden rat of a person. Words do not describe how revolting such a person is.
From the on-line slang dictionary.
Ah, thanks for clarifying, Jim. I enjoyed his earlier works and his lectures a great deal more than the later materials. LRH’s use of idioms was delightful.
As a teacher, I see this tendency to “dumb down” on a daily basis, and I cannot help but think that that is part of the problem of the perceived trend of declining literacy.
I say “perceived” because one of the reasons for this trend is the fact that more and more people are getting educated (in the US at least) many of whom had not had access to public education in previous decades.
OOoooooo! Will all that mud get rid of the cellulite on my thighs? 😀
Oh Jim……! 🙂
Thanks for the ack Les, and yes, indeed, so obviously so.
0:44 “… to make human rights a fact for every inhabitant of earth…. fight back against the evil forces that oppress the weak…”
Really. And Christopher Walken asking for more cowbell. That was about the funniest thing I ever saw on SNL.
There is a category called “food”, and all food items fall under this banner.
But people know the differences in food very well. There is a science with food also called cooking. If you are making a souffle you must use eggs. There is no substitute. It begins to matter very much the ingredients if you have promised to serve someone a souffle. Hubbard made promises with Scientology he wanted to keep. He had obligations the psychiatric community never had. He had obligations other religions never had. All of the above you mention, Scientology, Buddhism, psychiatry, do not fall under the same banner as “food”. They are all very different and I don’t see the value to throw them all in the same shopping basket.
The GOAL of Scientology has altered over the years.
A) Clear Earth.
B) Get ethics in on Earth.
C) Smash psychiatry.
That is telling in itself.
I wouldn’t spend a dime op terming psychiatry, for one reason only.
What you validate grows. That is very basic L.R.H..
There are differences and similarities between all forms of therapy and religion. The main difference between Scientology and the others is that there were promises and guarantees. All of which David Miscavige has made invalid through his influence with the religion.
Only now in it’s degraded state do people begin to lump it together with other arenas mainly classified as a “cult” because that is where Miscavige has managed to shift it.
The changes have been so vast when you mention “Scientology” now to get an idea of what it is you have to put it in a time frame.
“Scientology 70’s” “Scientology 60’s” etc etc. Even Scientology has differences and similarities with itself and it’s own time line.
Scientology 2012 is so vastly different than Scientology 1970 you would not recognize it as the same activity.
This was one thing Hubbard hoped to avoid with KSW and the idea of “Standard Tech”.
A brilliant philosopher has been replaced by a Caligula behind the curtains and a Ringmaster on the stage. He has managed fantastic shifts in reality, goals and purposes with the activity in Scientology.
Currently, the activity has shifted in such a reverse direction , we are now forced to get a little bit crazy , by Miscavige’s standard’s, to survive. And I have been able to ride that wave and shift gears. So are many others who are able with forces and flows.
Great idea Calvin, we can further distinguish what is the truth and true LRH vs. Miscavige’s lies and alterations!
Most people have a huge button on “crazy”. They work very, very hard to appear sane. It is only when you arrive at the upper levels of Scientology from clear up that you get an idea between “crazy” and “sane”. My view is that Scientologists have more or less been regarded as a little bit crazy. We had to be willing to carry that just to get to a reasonable point of sanity. Now, we carry the burden with our group. Clearly the people still “in” are not thinking very clearly, and we, are the ones considered psychotic through rebellion. We are all certified SP’s.
While they pervert and degrade the hope and value still available through Scientology. Yes, it’s “crazy” to have to download top secret materials on the net and hide in someone’s home to go OT. Yes, it’s crazy to fax your session reports. Yes, it is crazy to have to sort out the Church from the OUTSIDE with help from the community. Yes, we are into crazy to survive. Now is the time to let it rip.
Hi Marty, I’m posting here only because this is your most recent entry. My question relate to the NBC Rock Center (name?) interview from a few weeks ago. You and your other former CO$ co-Executives described the physical abuse at the main offices and in The Hole. Then CO$ trotted out the ex-wives who said they never saw a scratch on you all. I believe YOU, and know that you did not tell your families what was happening out of fear. What are we to make of their statement? Are they lying? Did you all purposely not let them see the marks? How could the one guy hide a black eye?! This issue has been bugging me. Thanks, Sally
Jim Logan’s new brilliant creation: Sitting Feck ©®™ (not Duck, or Deck) (DM)
• Totally repulsive disease-ridden rat of a person. Words do not describe how revolting such a person is.
• Completely lame, uncool
Source (thanks Pat): http://OnlineSlangDictionary.com
Bien, c’est vrai Calvin, et merci beaucoups.
Deft. Apt. Nicely done.
And if you have a look at our culture, in relationship with the rest of Society, all of the materials on the internet and laid out on the table has not caused society to turn against the subject of Scientology. It has been digested and even accepted. Pull the mystery off it and we are in harmony in this century.
Why is Scientology getting attacked? Not because of the tech. Because of the crimes in the culture Miscavige has invented. All of the animosity and attacks are not about the tech itself. The tech has been accepted. It is about the CRIMES against other people with in this culture.
Aha! a WILL ? Now we’ll have to find a WAY!
Aha again, Nancy The quicksand variety just might?
Slurrrrrp! Sluuurrrp! potent stuff, for sure!!!
Excellent piece T.O.
Person? PERSON? Sorry, reptile! That’s spelt:
R-E-P-T-I-L-E as in slither, like snakes! Snakes
can be dangerous! I am not fond of dangerous
snakes! Therefore I kill dangerous snakes!
The “X WIVES” were and are, actually married to David Miscavige. Still married to David Miscavige, still co existing with David Miscavige, still governed by David Miscavige, still provided for by David Miscavige.
That should answer your question.
Chomping at the bit Sinar! Wouldn’t get through
moderation though! Believe me….I tried!
David, through torture, blackmail, abuse, re education, false reports and all manifest of black magic, tried to become Karen’s husband as he became Mary Sue’s husband. She threw him in the used tampon box. I have the utmost respect and admiration for her.
Sally, where there is that much smoke, there is fire. Those women remind me of the Manson family. Its very disturbing. They believe they must lie to protect scientology. In fact their lies are keeping in power that which is destroying it.
LOL! Hmm, I think 8-years-old is prolly more fun than 12 when those crazy hormones start kicking in. Let’s go with 8, Jim!
ROFL!!!! Top of the list of results! (Of course, there was only one result, but nevermind that.)
(hmphing and stamping my foot in agreement)
I think we need more Bitter Defrocked Apostates! Yes, if only we had a few more Bitter Defrocked Apostates!
Wow, that’s gorgeous.
Oracle, I do not disagree with your statement at all! However, Sally’s question is fair and reasonable. Considering the wide publicity of the NBC interview, these questions ought to be answered with factual accounts. Yes, we Bitter Defrocked Apostates see the forest as well as the trees and thus, your answer is sufficient; however, we are not the ones who need to see the trees up close.
Still, thank you for your spot on answer. It sure rings true.
Minerva, er, Sally J,
Yes, well uhh, how can I put this. OK, here’s the deal, they aren’t actually “wives” in the ordinary sense you see. At Int, David Miscavige has instituted a celibate, ascetic, marriage free monkdom/nunnery (a “none-ery” if you will). Nobody sees anybody naked (except Marc and Guillaume, so says DM.)
This, and this is very, very, very hush, hush, is because Dave has NO willy. There, I said it.
He’s, well, he’s “peck-less”.
Must have been brutal Jim
Damn right, Oracle. If the general public actually saw the grades processes and completely ignored the initial creepiness of the “e-meter = lie detector” computation I truly believe the tech would be completely separated from the “brainwashing” indictment.
I do not pretend that all of LRH’s writings were 100% truth – he was an abusive, paranoid schizo AND a benevolent humanitarian AND a violent child abuser AND brilliant spiritual thinker AND…..(etc.)
If these dichotomous statements are hard to reconcile, then we each need to examine our own personal dichotomies. As a teacher I have been praised for being endlessly patient by students and parents who know me quite personally. Yet most ALL of my students know that I can be uncompromising and flat-out BITCHY. (Waves the baton maniacally: “Key signature, goddammit, look at the FUCKING KEY SIGNATURE!”)
…and somehow, everyone in my high school band has friended me on Facebook.
How can this be if I am a ruthless, screaming, nasty, demanding bitch? (A charge I do not deny.) The fact is, I am not ONLY a ruthless, screaming, nasty, demanding bitch. Simply, there is more to the picture.
This blog has become a big part of my every day (sometimes several times a day) Thank you for the time, thought, writing and care that goes into it. It’s a vibrant forum, a meeting place for discussion and insight and wisdom.
SUGGESTION: Put a DONATE TO THIS BLOG button up so I can click easily to donate??!
It obviously takes a lot of your time and thought and dedication and I see there is no advertising or vested interests…..so I would like to feel like I am helping back (beyond adding my two cents comments!) I would like to contribute dollars. Please keep it up I know you are busy but this is an important platform and I hope you realize how many people appreciate it. I hope that appreciation is being shown!
Sally J is Minerva? Wow, I didn’t know that!!!! 🙂
All those donations buy her a front seat AND she gets to be Minerva! Wow!
Hello Sally J. — I saw that show, too.
1) The wives sounded coached” because of their patterns of speech were so similar, like rehearsed lines.
2) Slap and punches don’t always leave bruises. They are also reinforced with verbal abuse, spiritual assault.
3) in the Sea Org, couples do not see each other all that often sometimes months and even years at a time
4) there is a misunderstanding about the concept of responsibility that the corrupt Organization (Scientology Inc) twists by forcing people to own the mindset to be “be responsible and not be a victim”. Well, responsibility includes finding the real cause. From what I see, many staff eventually wake up to this, and realize how in the oppressive “Hole” atmosphere, they tend to absorb and try to hold anything negative in — including evil in the environment via this misunderstanding of responsibility. …and couple with the fact that people are basically good.
It’s terrible to prey on that goodness with the kind of abuse (introversion, guilting, blame, wrong accusations) employed by Scientology Inc. management. The former wives were obviously very stressed (from such abuse no doubt)
If I may be so bold;
Sleazyasstical peckerless fecklehead… just sayin’.
Thanks Mike, that partially answers why I didn’t burn my previous books. Anybody remember or see there was an edict (goldenrod) that came down after the Basics release… to burn all former copies. My friends in Alaska had a book burning party, if you can believe that. Fortunately I missed it and all my former (several) copies are still safe. Un-fricken real the unmitigated gall of this little bitch. I wonder if he’s still taking steroids, given his balls must be all but gone.
For any new reader or person on the fence — please realize the fundamental truth in regards to the Church of $cientology.
It will destroy your potential.
It will suck your energy like a vampire.
It will harm you in ways you can’t even imagine.
I have always been a staunch libertarian but I really think in the case of Scientology, the US government needs to step in. It is a danger and menace to society.
“Bitter Defrocked Apostate” …. Sounds like a cocktail. Invented by a Sour Deflocked Hoarder.
Or a rock band. Great name for a rock band.
Just a little ack here, T.O. Most excellent observations.
The organization has slowly become all that it has resisted. All that remains are the dwindling echoes of LRH’s words, spoken long ago, to a group which bears no resemblance to the totalitarian police state culture that has supplanted it.
And just as we’ve seen with every culture of death before it, rebels and refugees are risking everything they love and cherish to make their escape to freedom.
Resistance Is Futile
” In a 1954 PDC Tape (Tape 20) Ron predicted that the technology of Scientology would be used destructively against the Scientology organization and its basic goals and principles. 50 years later, we have lived to see this prophecy come true. But, surprise, surprise, it came from within.
The Church has resisted alter-ised tech and misapplied ethics to the point where they now practice it themselves. Squirrel technology and haphazard Security Checks have subsequently resulted in a bridge altered so many times and processes dropped and changed so much that no one quite knows, at first glance, what the truth is anymore within the church. Basic principles have been changed. Tapes and books altered and vital data missing. The blanket use of ethics to stop and be used as a punishment rather than assisting to ensure the technology is being applied. The finance policies perverted to price the services out of reach of all but the wealthy or those willing to violate the exchange principles and dive into debt in a desperate attempt to go free (an alter-is and a contradiction in terms if ever there was one).”
Hello all posters,
I am looking for any information anyone might have on Bob Diskin. He is the uncle of a friend of mine and my friend has asked if I could find any information on him. In searching the web, I was able to find a reference to his job title in 1994 being HGB T/Chief Officer. I found that HGB is the Hollywood Guaranty Building but cannot find information on what T/Chief Officer indicates. I also do not know if this is the position he still currently holds. The only other reference I found was in Astra Woodcraft’s declaration on the Ex-Scientology Kids web site. I guess we are mostly interested in where he is now and what he’s doing. I have gathered from another person that Bob is married to Joan Diskin who is in OSA and mentioned in Nancy Many’s book (which I should order). Any information you might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to reach me personally, you can email me at whereisamber(AT)hotmail(DOT)com. Thank you in advance!
You might think this is a trivial point, but what if Mary Sue had said, “Hold on….you are not my husband, get up and out of here”. To David Miscavige when he “happened by to “handle” her.” We would be seeing a whole different theater here. Yes, a wife can be a make break point in history. You look at Karen. You see her shift the tide and she knows the force she can wield. And you see a potent person willing to use force to set things straight and you see a woman who knows about these things. That is a woman with power that counts. That is as holy as it gets for a female. David Miscavige looks like a Burger King wanna be copy cat owner against the backdrop of her pinky. He never had the altitude to fuck with that woman. He has totally out classed himself with every program to harm her and all of his black magic to reduce her has recoiled upon him and made him look weak and stupid and impotent. Get real David. If you think for one moment you overcame the checks and balances you are wishful thinking. The checks and balances are not with corporations, Stupid Mother Fucker, They are with Hubbard’s personal friends. Oh so stupid you.
I’m not bitter. The bitter are on ESMB. The people behind Marty are not bitter. We are still grateful. We still believe. The people that Marty attracts are not bitter or with evil intentions to harm or suppress. I don’t know who attracts these people. The OSA and the ESMB are op terms on the same level. They are bitter. Marty is in a different category that is a rational and has to do with inspecting facts and becoming happy with possibilities. The C of S IS BITTER Not us! Please do not forward that enemy line! I’m feeling good! Just finished two L’s. I am with the kick ass population that is keeping it real. I am more devoted than ever. I am with the Scientology program all the way.
David Miscavige is the bitter apostate. He is the one accusing Hubbard of overt products, bitch slapping volunteers. labeling all Scientologists as the “blind leading the blind” that is a very fucking bitter apostate. NOT US! Get Real!
That’s a crock, Les.
I can audit. I audit the books all the time to make sure the money keeps coming in.
And I am an expert at doing evals. I do them in my sleep.
They are just as easy as invals !
NEVER has Marty said he is bitter with Scientology! It is DAVID saying Hubbard’s auditors are mis trained, his books are overt products, his training has fucked up the movement, DAVID is the BITTER APOSTATE and this is evidenced by his actions. Hubbard’s friends deserved to be whipped and tortured! His wife deserves to be imprisoned! His kids deserved to be kicked off base or humiliated! His mistakes need to to be corrected! DAVID IS THE BITTER APOSTATE not me or us! David Miscavige is the bitter apostate here nobody else! I too have privy into tax returns.
Sure Ronn, You know, after reading the “daily news” aka
Marty’s blog, I am struck yet again by the sheer scale of
monikers, or nick-names, applied to DM! It seems there
is a ‘favourite’ choice, for practically everyone who posts
here. Just to add to the pile, here is yet another offering;
Why? Because if he’s not expecting everything to be done at “180-miles-per-hour,” then he’s super busy twisting things 180 degrees, or perverting them into “Reverse,”
ie. “reverse Scientology, “Black” Dianetics,reversing successful marriages, actions, technology, systems, etc, of people and practices alike! And if he’s not supa
dedicated to doing any of that, then he’s even more
DEDICATED to doing himself in! So just how extreme
can one go with this? Don’t really know! Ask…………….
I have seen recently one of the new “Tech”-films. The actors ACTED ARC and it communicated strictly as fake. It feels so wrong if one knows the originals. If someone has the old films, it would be great to post them on YouTube or somewhere else so that the work of LRH invested in these has not been in vain.
Okay, let’s just help him along a bit with this, shall we?
ref. (Scn.) AXIOM 30. The general rule of auditing is
that anything which is unwanted and yet persists
must be thoroughly viewed, at which time it will vanish.
(If only partially viewed, it’s intensity, at least, will decrease.) See above as example (for non-scn’s).
And if you don’t call “Sal” and that Mexican Bitch off my ass I am two hot minutes from your , “You fucked with my kids directly and indirectly now see, how about me.” ……….
You put my kids on the table as treasure? You fucking low life .
With every News Camera in Southern California in front of one of these locations, I have a story to tell that no body has heard yet. Let’s get it on.
BTW, for anyone (non-scn,) interested, Google;
“Scientology Axioms.”There is a full distillation
of the entirety of existence and creation,
right there, for your edification and education,
probably unsurpassed by any other philosopher,
past or present. For complete understanding,
remember to clear any words not fully grasped,
by looking them up in an original Scn ref.
dictionary, or in a good English dictionary for
troublesome “english” words not fully u/stood!
( BTW, this practice is a key element to the
“study tech” engaged in for full comprehension
by any disciplined Scientologist.)
I have received several emails that Pierre Ethier has gone into an enemy condition towards me on the internet. I just want to state here, It’s been a wild wild life here. I spent two years defending Pierre, his wife and his child on the internet. If he has a reason to discount me and invalidate me, just let it go. Please. Let him go on and invalidate me, discount me, suppress me, and feel he has had a win in unmocking me. I have always loved Pierre for what he has done for others, and I always will. Nothing will change that. I love him. And I always will.
Would any “bitter, defrocked, squirrel, apostate, declared
and/or expelled from the puritanical and $acro$anct ,
ethical practi$e of $cientology ” (inc.,) for unauthorized use
and practise, thereof .. ” —– kindly inform me of the origins
of the entity, known as “Minerva?”
Any clarifications appreciated.
re: “Sally J”: I smell a troll. Not worthy of anyone’s time responding to “her”.
Oracle, I don’t think the tech is accepted by society. Society can’t get past OT3 as church tech.
Society has no idea about the good stuff in the tech.
And rejection/attack is way before Miscavige. FBI raids, law suits etc.
Miscavige has upped the abuse no doubt. But there was abuse pre Miscavige.
As the internet is a source of various previously unkowns for us, the pre Miscavige abuse is also available.
If you want to find it.
It’s from Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”.
Could be Davey boy himself. The ‘out’ literacy issue is a dead givaway in addition to the ‘dropped out time’ on several of the referenced events. To the peckerless (and feckless) midget…………….all events are glued together in one large mass.
Yes. Darth Midget in his most grandiose narcissistic dreams cannot even begin to approach the *ENTIRE COUNTRY IS A CULT* that is North Korea. Kim Jong Un has at least 1,000 times as many brain-washed followers as D.M. — and he has weapons for most of them, too.
Michael A. Hobson
Marty, in the quest to forging a viewpoint after having been in Scientology
for 45 years and having been out of the church since 2005 and having
studied how the world outside is handling the problems we are facing
(I came into Scio mainly because of a 4th D ruin) I found many philosophers,
think tanks, politicians (a few) and psychologists who have some very
intelligent and organic solutions to what mankind is facing. And believe me,
I was very surprised!
So it has been a joy to see you and many others on this blog who have
read other things than LRH. It has been very helpful! Thanks, and keep
Hello Jim et al. – You call me “Minerva”, the name of a witch mother on “Bewitched”? Seriously? An insult for asking an honest question? Isn’t that what you criticize Scientology Inc for? Many “civilians” like me follow the CO$ / Scientology Inc story closely, as you are aware. (I am of another faith, and at the same time, have the utmost respect for you and your “good fight” for freedom against the tyranny of CO$). Many of us fight at your side to help change minds and laws so you can practice your religion freely. We believe in freedom of speech and of religion as stated in the Bill of Rights; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the Declaration of Independence; and just treating people with dignity.
For my respect and support to you and your group, you reward my honest question by belittling me? This seems like something CO$ would do! — a confounding choice of action from someone I would think would welcome support from the general public. We too believe in freedom; we too see abuse and corruption when it occurs, because we are all human beings worthy of respect and freedom. I asked an innocent question — probably not worded correctly per Scientology jargon or assumptions — because I am of another faith with its own jargon. In essence, I speak another dialect, which others of your group seem to understand just fine. I am saddened and confused to be treated this way from someone in a persecuted group that I support, and for whom I had an honest question. I hope that your answer was simply a poor choice of words on your part and does not represent the general attitude of the members of your group.
Marty, in fact, treats my questions and comments with respect, even though he knows I am of another faith. Others in your group have as well. Your words and attitude are not at all what I expected from a fellow human being who believes in freedom and respect. Maybe freedom and respect only for Independent and ex-Scientologists, but not anyone else?
“I have a fever!
And the only cure
Is Bitter Defrocked Apostates!”
Very true. It describes the mechanism very well, and the need for a properly done Grade 2 and confessionals.
When someone faces up to their past misdeeds, ideally being guided by a great auditor (Class II is “Guiding Style” and it so fits) then they get the EP which effectively is a clear conscience.
Marty, this raises the bar for people to become enlightened.
The first hurdle is shedding the blindness to what is happening with Miscavige and how he is abusive, instituted the policies of forced abortion, forced disconnection, forced lying, etc., etc, and altered the tech. In other words, acknowledging that Miscavige must be removed from post.
The second hurdle is to realize that thankfully the tech lives outside the church and there is no need to subject yourself to the alter-is of endless sec checks, endless arbitraries – objectives on OTs, etc., and see-saw clear declarations. In other words, your “Eternity” is safe (as if a thetan can’t do anything other than survive). In other words, the Church no longer has the monopoly on the tech, standard or otherwise.
But this is a new hurdle: Using Scientology to read and understand data about existence from other sources. This is a biggie, because it makes it seem as though to be Independent you have to acknowledge that Ron is not “Source,” or that there are valid data about spirituality and the mind that Ron did not write. BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE. What Independence IS is USING SCIENTOLOGY AS IT WAS INTENDED TO UNDERSTAND LIFE.
Ron read everything.
If you are afraid of “losing your religion” or being polluted by “False Data” if you “expose” yourself to “other ideas” you are a SLAVE. Period.
This would include so-called “Enemy Line”. Screw “Enemy Line.” Being afraid of “Enemy Line” is the definition of being PTS and being a non-thinking, stupid, can’t-read-and-understand-the-data-series-or-anything-else-written-by-the-old-man rote sad excuse for a “Scientologist.”
SD – Thank you for your response – very enlightening. 🙂
Thanks, Guy. The Manson Family is a good analogy.
Hi Regular Reader, US!
Great. Klick on “DONATE” on the very top of the blog (next to “HOME”).
Please translate for me. I do not understand Oracle’s response, so don’t understand how it is “spot on” or “rings true”. It doesn’t “ring” to me at all. I know I am a minority on this site, not being a Scientologist, which is probably evident in my questions. Many groups use “inside”, metaphorical language or jargon that makes sense to them, but not to outsiders. I hope I am still welcome here. I would like to understand the responses to my questions. Thanks for your understanding.
They were definitely coached. If I recall correctly each one stated that line about “I knew every square inch of his body…”. That was a huge red flag for me – that they had obviously worked out what to say in advance as a group.
No need to forward this entheta. It’s personal and will only generate mystery.
No need to forward this either. Just entheta from another group that does not belong here.
Perhaps I am overreacting to your response, and should be asking you questions, instead of jumping to conclusions and writing long posts. (Correction: I found that Samantha’s mom on “Bewitched” is Endora, not Minerva.)
So, please, why did you (and then Nancy) refer to me as “Minerva”?? It seemed you found that funny, but it felt quite derogatory to me; hence my earlier response. Is “Minerva” a real person, imaginary, a fellow poster on Marty’s blog that you’ve had trouble with? Perhaps an inside joke? Whatever the answer, please, could you be a little kinder on this site, and treat people the way you would like them to treat you (the Golden Rule)? It seems the right thing to do, to treat everyone with respect. It may even help prevent misunderstandings.
I had felt very welcome on this site, until today. I don’t know what to think now. I welcome your response.
Thank you for listening,
I remember Bob Diskin. He was my senior on the HGB renovation project in 1988. Sorry, but I lost track of him after the project ended. Sounds like he stayed behind and became HGB Estates staff.
Particularly for the benefit of DM: I was on the Freewinds in the fall of 2009 to do OT VIII. This was shortly after Marty and Mike had appeared on CNN. I confessed I had seen the advertisements on TV – not the broadcast, just the ads. I was then assigned to read the Freedom Mag written to dead agent the two of them along with Amy and one other person. As a highlight, I was also assigned to watch the video of Tom Cruise’s medal presentation. It was these two assignments that were a major turning point in my deciding to leave DM’s group. As I found myself disgusted by each and most particularly the Freedom Mag. It led me to look more deeply on my return to find the real truth of what was going on. I might not have done that without the benefit of the obvious lies of the Freedom Mag. Thanks, David Miscavige, for putting me on the path to the truth about you and your dirty secrets.
What I AM bitter about are the folks parked on C of S payroll who wear the hats to “harm, attack, and suppress” full time. The Church keying people in to their evil intentions and purposes and rewarding them financially to go out and dramatize them.
That has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with black magic and ill will and has as a product enturbulation. People are actually wearing hats to be suppressive and restimulate and enturbulate and are taking home pay checks for it. Shape shifting into becoming a virus among fellow human beings. That is some of the product rolling out of the Church these days and rolling through the halls of the Church.
When Hubbard was on the lines these folks were known as suppressive and fixed with auditing. Now they are created, hatted, and rewarded for creating misery.
I am bitter about that. That is not evolution.
I think you mean “David’s friends…”, not “Hubbard’s friends…” Sadly, part of your rant already happened: DM’s wife has been imprisoned for some time. Bastard (DM).
Grasshopper, I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, and I fully recognize that LRH used every bit of data and accumulated wisdom about the spirit and the human mind during the course of his research – but (and you knew there’d be one), I think it’s also perfectly reasonable for a person to be comfortable with the answers they’ve found in Scientology, and not feel compelled to seek answers beyond that body of knowledge.
Just as I’m willing to grant beingness to those who are settled and comfortable with other philosophies, technologies, regimens, and religions (or even the lack thereof), so too should others grant beingness to those who are (at least for the time being) satisfied with Scientology as their personal answer to spiritual salvation.
I think there’s room for that consideration in a multiple viewpoint system.
Minerva is a poster on another forum, he is also known as the “Grim Reaper”. He is crafty and clever at unmocking people.
I remember some staff member getting me on the phone to pitch the Basics to me. When I told her that I already had purchased them, she said, “Ok, did you destroy your old books yet?” I laughed out loud, and said, “You’re kidding, right?” She wasn’t. Not one bit.
When I realized that, I told her that my old books were my personal property, and that I’d spent nearly 40 years accumulating them, and that no one on earth was going to force me to destroy my personal property.
I suppose no one had said that to her, up to that point. She was struck speechless, and didn’t push it further with me.
I don’t think Minerva is posting as Sally J. . That would be a heavy injustice to lay on someone if it were not fact.
I am glad to see your name here Lars. You always had a trademark kindness towards people in the Sea Org. 🙂
Heck, the Study Tape Evaluation of Information should cover this for anybody who actually got it. Or, how about the first Data Series, and LRH’s cog, yes, COG, on “illogic” as a DATUM OF COMPARABLE MAGNITUDE to better appreciate logic.
Sheesh, “forbidden texts”…WTF?
Meet a Scientologist on line! Hi! My name is ___________ ! Scientology has helped me with my purposes to harm attack and suppress others!
Ooops, that is, to better understand something, compare it to something of comparable magnitude. Simple stuff. One thing doesn’t evaluate. You need at least two.
“Minerva” was the host of the website referred to in the Opening Piece. It is now under another name, but to me, “she” will always be affectionately known as “Minerva”.
Minnie, Min, Erv (I like Erv best), and to really close friends simply “a”.
Let’s go pay him a visit and let him know our thoughts on these matters.
When are you available?
As Minerva’s enemies would be shifted and focused on to Sally J. . And enemies he has many.
Not really. I mean, if your name was Minerva, wouldn’t you want to change it? Sally, Joyce, Frank, heck, even Butt Crack is better than “Minerva”, don’t you think?
I think your “troll sniffer” may be off. 🙂 First, I am very sorry if I have offended you in some way. I understand this site is infiltrated from time to time with CO$ sleepers. I’m not one. I read articles, ask questions, and make comments on the website, like everyone else. As a thinking person with a heart, I have come to care about what’s going on with CO$ and those who have escaped–even though I am of another faith (I am a Christian). As you well know, your group has had substantial assistance and support from various media groups whose staff were likely other faiths and not Scientologists. Was their help therefore unwanted or unworthy? Were they “trolls”? Please, if I may gently remind you, sometimes people from a group who have been persecuted, see bias in others that does not exist. I think that is what we are dealing with here. My understanding is that the site is open to the public. Marty has been kind and respectful of my posts, knowing we are of different faiths. Maybe he forgot to tell me I was unwelcome? Again, please forgive me if I have offended you in any way.
“CofS payroll”. Hold the freakin’ phone…somebody in the CofS OTHER than Dave is getting paid?!
Thank you for defending me! 🙂 I have been beaten up on this site all day long from multiple people, without the foggiest idea why. If this is how the community treats its friends…! 😦 May I ask, is it a normal part of communications on this site, for posters to name-call, hurl covert insults, and flame other posters? I understand that you always have to be on your guard for CO$ infiltrators. But surely people can be a little nicer than this. :O Felt like I was back in junior high (absolute worst time of my life)!!
OK, Sal, here we go. First, no, sorry, I can’t translate Oracle’s spate of posts on this one.
Second, are you familiar with Battered Wife Syndrome? You know, the woman’s getting smacked areound, goes to work and her friends enquire about the obvious, and she says she ran into the closet door. Well, it’s feasible, as ONE answer to your question that a similar scenrio has played out, right?
OK, that’s one possibility. Here’s how it may have gone down. Let’s take Mike, not for any particular reason, but just sayin’ so to speak. There he is, after having been smucked, has a black mark on his cheek and he’s standing around the water cooler in the Hole chatting with fellow Holees. They ask him “hey, Mike, whaaasup with that?”. Mike, responds, in a Battered Wife type manner “oh, well, I was on the Polo field in our Worker’s Paradise (see Freedumb Mag video of this catchy name) and well, I must have missed the ball and swung through and hit myself in the face.” This is a plausible explanation. It is accepted, and it’s back to re-educating the lesbian in the garbage can.
Good Lord, I had no idea that had transpired. My “in” experience was miserable, but I am only now coming to terms with how much worse things have become.
Totally in agreement with “The Oracle” on this:
‘What I AM bitter about are the folks parked on C of S payroll who wear the hats to “harm, attack, and suppress” full time. The Church keying people in to their evil intentions and purposes and rewarding them financially to go out and dramatize them.’
And if these “folks parked” can’t see through David Miscavige; just how are they going to make the world safe from nuclear war?
One-Eighty Po-taty is the name of Li’l Davey!
I would argue that corporate Scilon Kool-Aid drinkers are likely the largest constituency of these sites. Remember that many have an unknown Net Nanny virus on their computers that censor their internet experiences. If a Kool-Aid Scilon googles “Marty Rathbun” their search results will be dominated by OSA-determined results. This blog, Marty’s interviews with the Village Voice, CNN, etc., will NEVER SHOW UP! Therefore, the only info they have via their honest attempt at google research ONLY returns the church’s propoganda. Since this is the only information that shows up via their honest attempts, they have no access to both sides of “the story.”
Dayam!!! That’s even better than Workers Gone Postal! Jim on drums; I’m on trumpet. Who else we got?
Ah, Ms. Rand. Yes!
Thanks for asking for clarification. It is easy for exes and indies to toe the line by nodding to over-simplification. We have our own personal experiences to provide verification. Oracle’s response, while agreed upon by many of us, would make no sense to anyone who has not been involved in the standard “mind-fuck” of the cult.
I will try to explain:
The closest relationships we understand is the intimacy held within the family unit, e.g., wife-husband; parent-child. The “wives” were brought to stage because culturally, normal human beings would assume they would have the most intimate understanding of their husbands.
In Scientology, this is simply not the case. Family relations are degraded and insulted at best as an idle, but necessary process for the propogation of the human race, and at worst, as “Counter-Intention” to the more “noble” goal of “saving the planet.” Marriages are encouraged in Scn to legitimize and avoid the bad PR of non-marital sexual interactions and the resulting pregnancies. However, divorces are encouraged, even enforced when the church deems the match to be inconvenient to church goals, such as relocating one spouse to a different part of the world to fulfill a goal that is more important than the goal of that individual’s family unit.
Those of us accustomed to the normal, traditional family unit predictably (and rightfully!) assume that no one knows a man better than his wife. For DeVocht’s ex to say she knew “every inch” of her husband’s body implies a NORMAL human marriage, but not a Scientology staff member’s marriage. More truthful is that they had not seen each other in weeks or months. Perhaps even years. Furthermore, if they had complained about their treatment, the wives (or anyone else listening) would have been required to report their spouse’s critical thoughts.Therefore, Oracle’s claim that they were not married to their legal spouses, but rather to David Miscavige, is a comment on the true nature of their warped and coerced dedication to the Church over and above their marriages to their husbands.
If this reminds you of 1984, Nazi Germany, Communist China, then you have begun to understand the crippling thought control that the Church of Scientology has successfully imposed. Yes, this is happening right here and now in the Good Ol’ U.S. of A.
Regarding your welcome here: I am most grateful for your thoughtful enquiries. My attempts to explain my experiences to someone who has not endured them helps me greatly to understand them myself.
Ronnie and Grasshopper, Definitely agree with your sentiments, wholeheartedly,
Ronnie, and similarly, must say that I always find Gh’s
posts extremely well thought out and presented, and
like yours, an absolute pleasure to read.
Thank you both.You manage to bring a rare balance
of sharp observation, articulation, and refreshing
absence of malice, to all your presentations. The need
to do the occasional ‘rant’ at some obviously brainless
cretin’s mindless outpourings, is no exception, and in
no way fetters your obvious integrity on this board,IMO.
Please continue to keep it pure and therefore powerful, (the TRUTH,) as you have always managed to do!
Yvonne, thanks for sharing this realization, that huge “AHA”
moment, so many of us have already experienced, when we
SUDDENLY woke up! (from the hypnotic trance of THE David.)
AND, like all hypnotism, we finally discover that is was our own
AGREEMENT, that allowed ourselves to become so hypnotised
in the first place! Always so embarrassing this! (for most of us!)
Sally J! That’s it! Just hold your position in space, girl!
it’s an all too common over-reaction from those few.
And it IS an OVER reaction, that’s all it is, nothing more!
AND, Sally, please trace back to the exact moment, when
it began——–you will see your 3rd pty, sitting right there!
Take some comfort from the fact that it was only a minority
of persons involved. I too, was the subject of similar “fair
game” attacks when I (all too frequently, it must be said,)
unwittingly made similar (suspicious)comments, much to my regret!
AND, WHO was it that stepped up to the plate, on the
major (for me) occasion, to do a sterling job on defence?
She has resolutely shown, not only you, but countless,
others on this blog, what it means, to follow The Code
of Honour, for which I am eternally grateful.
Especially clause 1, “Never desert a comrade in need,
in danger, or in trouble.”
Hope you feel a little less troubled, after this! It also
needs to be baldly stated, that this blog (Marty’s) is
not a place for the faint hearted, but if you stick around
for the bumpy ride, (consider it a “training ground,” an
unintended “boot camp,” if you will!) you will definitely
come through, tougher, wiser, and so much sharper
in handling the “nasty stuff” which may come your
way, not just from a select few posting on this blog,
but from the wider world, at large.
Although the above is for you, it applies to anyone, who
has the misfortune to be similarly attacked, in future.
HEY ! LISTEN UP! “FAIR GAME” WAS CANCELLED
BY L.RON HUBBARD IN RJ 68, AND WAS ILLEGALLY
REINSTATED BY CRIMINAL PONZI OPERATOR AND
NON SCIENTOLOGIST DICTATOR,DAVID MISCAVIGE.
Sally, you are TOTALLY welcome here by the way, by
the overwhelming majority.
Calvin B. Duffield
Thank you for the reply.
Yes, I have read the materials you mention an they are in part about knowing how to know.
When I say “Scientology is stuck”, I mean: in KSW #1, Hubbard says that he is the only one allowed to do research. Other people cannot. There is also the necessity to follow his sayings. Thus since his departure, the subject cannot evolve, according to its own tenets.
Actually it has evolved with the high prices and with the golden age of tech. But it seems that the grade chart itself is not going to change, for theoretically the centuries to come.
As long as Hubbard was on the line, he was constantly changing the bridge. The last changes were: auditing the grades before NED, NOTs, Solo NOTS for the main part.
Did he complete his work? Not sure. KSW1 says it was complete, but it changed a lot after that.
Anyway we have this fact: Scientology is not doing any research anymore, when thousands of people do in the fields of science, psychology, philosophy.
About the science of knowing how to know, there is a now the revolution of the Internet that has a huge impact. That is for example possible to make new discoveries by performing meta analysis, and to advance much faster by sharing knowledge.
But that is something Hubbard did not accept, again in KSW1, when he wrote that the only thing people can share is their reactive mind.
Anyway, as far as I am concerned, I am looking around and I am taking anything that works for me, such as Buddhism.
But as I had also wins with scn, I keep an eye on it.
I am happy that the reformers seem to gain now some power, with high profile people such as Deebie Cook and Mark Rathbun, as this gives a change to render scientology again affordable, friendly and alive.
Have a nice day,
I am glad for your interest and support. Especially glad for any new support and friendship extended to Marty. It does happen from time that new people coming on are teased a little. I was myself. It’s just that you have some battered people here who are less than trusting as a result, are sensitive to criticism. I am glad you are curious and asking questions. This is Marty’s blog and everyone else is just a guest. When I was involved with the Church of Scientology I was kind and helpful to all people, as I regarded them as other friends of Hubbard’s. So I treated them as I thought Hubbard would. People could be kind and considerate to Marty’s guests as well. It is not about you. it is about the Church planting people on the internet or harm attack and suppress other people. Sometimes people get wrongly accused of being in this group. If that is not true for you just let it go by as a “wrong indication”.
Marty did not accuse you of anything. He has a large family here. If your distant cousin causes a scrap down on the corner why should you be punished for it? In the end, it’s a family affair.
You think the squirrel busters were volunteering? What about the camera man that flipped? Lebow? People who sit on the internet day in and day out fair gaming any opinion leader that exits the Church? They have electric bills and mortgages and survive off the misery of others. And yes, David Miscavige pays these people to fuck with his enemies out of Church coffers. These are soldiers of fortune. They piggy back and profit off of the conflict. cha ching cha ching!
I forgive you Sally. I am not offended. Your understood. And perhaps someday you will be here for the right reasons. But today is not that day. And many see right through you. And your now going to great lengths in your respones to being offended and indicate the members here are intoloerant of others,etc. The good news is that you say Marty treats you very well. Then let me direct your attention to the Donate button on your way out.
Copies of Pierre’s face book rant have been forwarded to me from several sources. He has removed it now. He has false reported in every mention of my name. In case you read it.
I am shocked. I mean, what else can I say? Blatant lies and alter is. Pierre, What the FUCK happened to you? Who are you? Why? For real? How could you invent such slander? Some of it I could see to mis understanding. But to say you gave me a T.E. of 100 hours? I NEVER got a T.E. from you. Death threats? Please do publish these.
It does not matter what you have lead others to believe. I know, and you know. You have no evidence to back up your accusations because there isn’t any.
You use my name to out me? After all I have done for you and your family?
THIS is why I bought you to my home town and paid you and accommodated you and your wife in every way, and then said, “No Thanks”. Keep the money, I do not want to get auditing from you.
I saw this part of you. This potential. This is it. You probably get my point now?
If you are a P.C. considering getting auditing from Pierre and security is important to you, check out his face book page and his ability to keep your info private. Check out his fair gaming of potential P.C.’s. Do you want your real name spread all over Facebook? Do you want false information about your case spread all over the internet? Just look at what happened to me as a result of connecting up to this auditor and decide for yourself. It is all there if you are on his Facebook page.
“What can I tell you my brother, my killer, what can I possibly say? I guess that I miss you, I guess I forgive you, I’m glad that you stood in my way………….”
Your several, very eloquent, cogent even, responses belie the original fatuous “but IF there was these alleged instances of violence, wouldn’t their wives see the evidence of said?”.
You see what I mean?
It is apparent, again, with your responses, you are not unfamiliar with the topics, and would have seen for one example, the broadly televised and reported Debbie Cook testimony. You would be familiar with the Truth Rundown series of articles, the reportage of the culture of violence under David Miscavige.
So, with that, I am a bit curious about this “but what about the evidence and the wives” for many reasons, not the least of which this is the line used on the Anderson Cooper CNN “Dead Agent” attempt by Dave.
You see what I mean?
So, these illogical, incogrueties are interesting to me.
Sally, I do not find your posts offensive. I personally welcome your thoughts, inquiries and discussion.
Sally J, Dont worry about it. Jim probably hadn’t caught any fish yesterday. His words came from him and he is not speaking for others.
You are welcome to ask whatever questions you like.
Thank you for careing about L Ron Hubbard’s followers.
I wish I could use my real name like he and you do but I can’t yet because I have to still collect money from a couple CO$ members.
PS Once an Xmember thought (at least at one time) I was a ‘plant’ but that was because I was married to an Xmercinary who saw me so upset when I found out about the crimes within my church’s his solution was to simple ‘take DM out’. Course that is not the correct solution but I relayed it just the same which of course put the person I orriginated it to at risk (Or so she thought). Life happens!
I certainly did not refer to you as Minerva. Fortunately, I have not had any experience with the real or imaginary poster by that name.
Hello Sally J,
I don’t know that you’ll still get a response from those you’ve queried because this thread is near its end and the blog will have a new subject soon.
It sounds to me that you are a person of good will and if so I apologize for the unearned abuse in trying to get your questions answered.
I’ve been out of the CO$ only a few months and I remember a regular poster tried to signal me as a possible troll when I first started commenting here. This has occurred with a few others since I’ve been here. It’s almost like a rite of passage with some. (or a paranoia obtained through CO$ underhanded behavior)
If Calvin (Li’l bit of stuff) is still reading, he will remember the lengths he had to go through to establish himself as a bonafide good guy.
I would advise you to continue commenting here if your intentions are good; I think you will eventually gain familiarity within the group and your contributions will be welcome. At least, I hope that will be the case.
I have written a comment above addressing this, somewhat.
You have brought up the “intolerance” of different faiths issue, which was not, has not and is not any part of any comment I made to you. Or any other person, at any time. Since you only mention this AFTER my intitial response to your intitial post, I’m not quite sure what this non sequitur has to do with the intitial question you posed: “evidence?” of the physical abuse.
I have a sort of feeling this is a red herring. Just my feeling. This intuition is bolstered by your extremely well written comments following the first one, and now, centered on me and my “covert” communications. It would seem that the use of this term, a piece of Scn “jargon” and very well known and used in the vernacular, was very well placed by you, one claiming lack of familiarity with Scn “jargon”. I dunno. A lucky co-incidence of jargon? Sure, it is a bit thin and well, not by any means conclusive.
It did stick in the craw a bit, I’ll admit. And added to the whole of your posts, well…hey, it just rings kind of curious to me.
My “Minerva” remark, alluding to the authors of the anti-Marty site mentioned in the Opening Piece (and not the other one that Catherine, the Oracle is referring to), can be taken in several lights. Here’s one; the “line”, i.e., propaganda emanating from David Miscavige, is that there is “no evidence” of violence as witnessed by the “wives”, is one THE lines used by the RCS to deny the preponderance of evidence.
Frequently these sorts of “lines” are forwarded by unwitting “dupes”, innocent bystanders, who spread the “line” and it thus appears to come from “many sources” and so “must be true”. In this case “false” that there was, is any violence perpetrated at the Int Base at the behest and encouragement of David Miscavige.
These lines, become “fact”. (For another example, see how the “LRH was a paranoid schizophrenic” line sort of rolls of the tongue of some very nice people. It’s a tactic, well laid out, in a series of documents known to many of us as the “Roll Back” technology, a very concise means of isolating the source of an “enemy line”. It can be used in reverse, and is, by David Miscavige and OSA, in particular “Minerva” has utilized this Reverse Scn.
So, you see, there is some modicum of method to my jocularity in my responses to your odd first posting, especially odd since you are expressing yourself as a very, very savvy individual and the intial question, the echoing of the “line” herein defined, caught my eye. And my propensity for play.
BIG shift in topic here. Are you familiar with the Christian, syncretic philosopher Aquinas? His work on “faculty psychology” and the theory of perception/sense being put together in a cohesive whole by the “common sense”?
This was later taken on by Alfred Korzybski and his “general semantics”; the theory that meaning is taken from the whole of the senses, the general overall perception of the body/person and the semantic messages are not just with words, but all of the various aspects of interchange.
Aquinas, one of the brightest minds in the sky of humanity. A Christian.
Hey Sally, I left the church in 1987. I had a lot of time to work stuff out. It is my opinion that some folks leaving Scientology experience PTSD. I’ve had some people tell me that.
And consider this, they have PTSD and there are CIA type undercover operatives that are really trying to destroy some of them.
How evil is that!
Very strange state of affairs indeed.
The very core of some of these folk, the very heart of them have been ripped apart.
When I hear someone expressing anger here, I hear a heart that needs an ear, a soul that needs kindly understanding.
Mmmmmm, “covert insults”. A Christian would never use the word “covert” like that.
By the way, LRH said that Scientology at least initially is about blind leading the blind. This concept comes from the very first lecture in “Milestone One” lecture series, the one that starts out with: “This is a course in Scientology.” Page 6, part 6: “It is the task of anyone engaging in processing, then, to go out along the line of better working methods for others around him and depend upon those others to help him up to that level. The initial step, then, depends upon THE BLIND HELPING THE BLIND. And anywhere that this fails, it is because the blind are too blind.” [capitalization added]. The meaning of this was of course twisted to suit some other goals just as with a lot of other things.
I remember hearing: Communication is the Universal Solvent, and something like: For any activity to survive, it must have a valid Purpose.
I’ve been reading this thread for days now and it is my opinion that there is no purpose to it. On this thread, Marty’s wonderful blog has lost it’s purpose and has allowed non-sequitur, added inapplicable stuff to seep in, including responses to shit posted in other sites that have no place in here. If Marty is too busy writing his books, could someone please see that we remain focused and don’t stray and become just one more “Scientology website”?
That is, assuming that there is still a purpose for this blog. No offense intended for anyone, and a note to Oracle: please check yourself and try not to spray your personal unhandled BPC all over innocent people.
The long hot summer continues: The movie, “The Master” screened in Santa Monica to rave reviews with talk of awards.
PS, If Marty’s blog, which effectively opened the door to the development of what is now known as the Indies, made of people who are actually with the core concepts of LRH’s Scientology, allows itself to be contaminated by so many hate efforts which exist in the hearts of quite a few out there, it will eventually lose any credibility it has gained over the last 4 years or so. Sanity, Love, Understanding and creative communication will go much, much farther than hateful statements. ARC and the Data Series tech are the best weapon we have against the insane actions of David Miscavige and his unfortunate followers.
This is of course just my personal opinion.
After leaving Scientology and culling language and words to fit back into general culture, I found that the word “covert” was definitely part of the everyday lingo of a Scientologist but not in general culture.
So at least circumstanially there is cause for suspicion.
This is a strange world ladies and gentlemen.
Hello again Sally,
Perhaps you should read my other two responses to you, above. They clarify my gambit, and subsequent persiflage. They also clarify my reading of the “line”, even between the “line” and some may consider reading into the “line”.
As far as you being welcome or unwelcome, to me, that has absolutely zero to do with anything I wrote to or about your initial comment. It is a forum, a potpourri a “salad” (see the intro to Battlefield Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard and the mention of “salad”.)
As to listening and your gratitude – hey, you are very welcome 🙂
Hey Ronnie, I get you, and I agree. There is a big difference in my mind between being content in Ron’s work and reactively condemning all work that is NOT by Ron, which I have seen time and time again, and of which I was guilty myself I was younger.
Yep, pretty much the whole of Study Tech can be found in the Logics. I Clay Demoed the Logics on Level E, I think, and my, that was awesome!
If you would, please answer at least one of posts to you and I’ll even hone it down to what caught my attention (aside from the “line”).
Remember that movie Inglorious Basterds? In the underground pub, the “tell” was the omission of the thumb in counting. Slight error. Large significance.
You used a phrase, exactly correct in Scn jargon, “covert insults”. Hmmmm, I thought, where is the thumb?
Odd, slight, probably nuttin’, yet…
Hey, don’t take ME as the entirety of this here blog. You say you’ve been posting here a while, well, continue. I for one am perfectly willing to turn my other cheek.
Yes, Brian. Cuwious, vewy cuwious.
Yikes, one last suggestion, in light of your latest post on me. In the spirit of the Opening Piece, I invite you to the exact same anti-Marty website, and the page on moi, me, Jim Logan. Strangely, they too complain of my nasty. Hmmm, that seems very interesting. G’head, check it out. Photoshopped pic and all.
Sounds like a hidden 3rd party to me. Maybe someone pretending to be you sending entheta his way. And he reacting to such in an extreme, shrill manner. Worth looking into I think.
“…he was an abusive, paranoid schizo AND a benevolent humanitarian AND a violent child abuser AND brilliant spiritual thinker AND…..(etc.)”
Am I the only one who sees this excerpt as an outpoint?
And no, Palehorse, I don’t possess these extreme personal dichotomies that you seem to want to brag about (And neither do the folks I hang out with)
I’m with you 100%
Now THAT’s what I’d call beautiful alliteration!
Thank YOU for YOUR reply, Curiosis, and I am truly
thrilled that you now have arrived at a point where
you are free to be, do, & have, according to your
own free choice!
Hi Pumpkin (cute name – my dad used to call me that!),
Happy Monday! Thank you for your post. I will respond to Jim separately re: his questions and assumptions. I truly can understand why people on this and other sites could get a little jittery or upset if they feel someone posting is not on the up-and-up. I very much appreciate your warm welcome. Hope you get this! (Since Marty has written a new topic). You are a doll.
Sally (my “stage name”)
Sorry-I’m 3 hrs diff from you, and this is my first opportunity to write today. My 2 long posts “awaited moderation” for almost 24 hours (I wrote them around noon Sunday). I may send this in segments because of the “moderation” required for longer posts.
I appreciate your taking the time to write me back. I’m aware also of the wariness of your group members to CO$ infiltration and stalking, given your experience.
Let’s try it again: Hi Jim, Sorry-I’m 3 hrs diff from you, & this is my first opportunity to write today. My 2 long posts “awaited moderation” for almost 24 hrs, and were written Sunday. I will send this response in segments due to “moderation” required for longer posts. Hope this one works.
Alex, you know I admire and respect you enormously,
from your vast time in the trenches, and particularly
as a person who lives and breathes the ARC triangle.
I feel your comment to Oracle, while expressing your
personal concerns felt, regarding her “behaviour”
did not take into account that she had given several
originations, which were not only IGNORED, for the
most part, but were in fact, most harshly rebuffed,
if not used to thoroughly denigrate her! What followed,
certainly played out in terms of agitated BPC, but then,
one wouldn’t expect to be treated with such disdain,
by fellow bloggers,assuming, they had the personal
purpose, of “moving on up a little higher,” instead of
attempting to “kick one’s fellow down a little lower.”
All is not quite as it seems, amigo, but one thing is for
sure; No double standards emanate from The Oracle!
Just my own obnosis,
Jim, it seems that all posts here need moderation! So I’ll just write the rest of my email. Wow, you wrote me a lot of posts, I need to read them all.
Your wariness is understandable, given the horrific treatment you and your fellows have experienced. I also understand your sensitivity to certain words, phraseology, etc.
First off, I am an English major. I write fairly well, have a fairly good vocabulary, always seek to improve my skills, and read constantly. I also edit better than I write. I should have worded my original question more clearly. It was a little sloppy at the end. I can see how you and others may have inferred from my question that I believe the ex-wives and disbelieve Marty et al., and that I am hostile to Scientologists. That is not the case at all, and was not my objective.
Because I have a fairly good vocabulary (and happened to watch “The Bourne Trilogy” the past few days!), “covert” is and has always been a normal word for me and for many others. It is not code for anything. However, the word clearly has a sinister connotation, and I have no idea what it is. I was hurt by your “Minerva” appellation toward me, and I expressed my feelings in my own words, not anyone else’s. CO$ does not own the English language, nor any other. I hope in time that you can realize that most people who use words CO$ has stolen and charged with peculiar meanings, are not speaking of anything to do with Scientology or CO$.
(Part 1 of several, continued to respond to other posts on the way down to some of your later posts, Jim)
Yes Jim Cuwious!
Here’s another thingie that just doesn’t add up:
Sally J “I read articles, ask questions, and make comments on the website, like everyone else.”
No you don’t. You’ve never posted on this website, that I can find.
Hopefully you read the first two posts I sent (required “moderation”, whatever that means).
Thank you for your compliment on my writing skills – learned them as an English major. I must say that you have an impressive vocabulary. Were you by chance an English major like me, or some kind of technical scientist who uses words precisely? I always enjoy finding words not often used by most people. And some of your words in the posts below that I have never heard of…??? I will have to look them up. So good job there.
Jim, I am sorry that you have been so traumatized by your treatment in CO$ that you see everyone as an enemy, and do not recognize a normal person who happens not to be a Scientologist. Our faiths use different jargons for your faith and mine that I don’t think we each know, that’s where the faith issue came in. At the same time, there are thousands upon thousands of words in the English language that may mean something in your religion or mine, or may just mean the dictionary definition of the word. I innocently use a normal English word like “covert”, meaning “secret, hidden”, as in “The CIA conducts covert operations.” But the word means something evil to you, so you go ballistic on me, and all but accuse me of being a CO$ spy. So, to be consistent, I think you should go after everyone who has ever used the word “covert”, because they are most likely a CO$ spy. Right? Wow.
Like I said in the other email, I could have worded (and certainly SHOULD HAVE, given the firestorm I apparently have caused here!), my original question much more clearly. I can see how you would interpret my purpose and position as EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what it is. I should have sent in a clarification (and I didn’t, being new to this forum), and you would probably not now be railing against me like this.
Jim, there is no red herring. You sound like a good person skillful in doing textual criticism of a writing (English major speaking), and/or someone skilled at finding patterns. But, Jim, writers of textual criticism and pattern solvers are not always right. Sometimes they are wrong. I believe your intentions are good, but I must tell you that your conclusions about me and my motives are wrong.
I hope you get these messages, since they are from yesterday’s article. Yes, of course I am familiar with Aquinas, and agree that he was a bright, clear, prolific thinker and writer. I think his Christian theology is more in line with mine. However, I’m glad that his writings can give light to others.
Thank you Max – Much appreciated.
Wearing the Burger King mask with the creepy face…
Very helpful response. Battered Wife Syndrome. Totally makes sense. So you are being nice to me now?? Or is this temporary? I am confused. I suppose you wrote this one before the others. Whereas I am responding to you in reverse order, due to your many posts to me. I suppose I will find out shortly
Agree with your assessment too, Max.
Palehorse / Nancy,
Thank you so much for your response. This is the BEST and clearest explanation I have read to date. Thanks for taking the time to explain to me without jargon, so that I can understand.
Max, good advice! BTW, you’re sounding more & more
like one of the real old veterans of this blog, my man!
PTSD totally makes sense! How could it not? Anyone subject to the abuses they suffered would be called a kidnapped, abused victim by any law enforcement agency. And maybe the old adage, “Hurt people hurt people” applies here.
It does help me see why I am being so attacked and maligned on this website. A few people are kind to me. But others can “see right through [me]” (???), read into my posts motives that were not intended (posts which could have been clearer), conclude I am bad because I may use some normal words that happen to be “secret bad” Scientology words, and accuse or imply that I am a CO$ plant, spy, stalker, “troll”, or “Minerva” (apparently an abusive person on another site). They name call me and tell others to shun me. It seems that they are doing to me what their fellow CO$ members did to them. I guess they had effective (in the wrong way) examples!
Has that ever happened to you? Surely I am not the only one!
I think it is sad that you have suffered abuse at the hands of the CO$, kind of like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, so that you cringe or lash out at anyone you feel will either hurt you, or who you believe has nefarious motivations. CO$ did it to you, and you know it was wrong. But you are doing it to others, don’t you see that? Why continue the pattern and malign others, accusing them of hateful beliefs and sympathies that are the opposite of their actual positive ones. If you really could see through me, you would see that you are wrong, and that I am actually a friend, not an enemy. As the adage goes, “Hurt people hurt people.”
Nancy, you are the best. Thanks for being so kind to me. Hopefully, I can sludge through the mud, and dodge the arrows, from other people so I can be a regular person here.
No she’s not. Don’t believe everything you read.
Not only am I a respector of a she-rocket, turns out other are respecting said rocket, for less propulsive and more
academic reasons, not to mention even more surprising
dichotomies such as ruthlessness, screaming and nasty,
demanding, bitchiness, which sound to me just like the
perfect attributes required to get the attention, of just
equally ruthless, screaming and nasty, demanding, bitch-
ness, of today’s STUDENTS! (And I’m just talking about
the MALES— we needn’t even begin to discuss the
females, that stretches teacher tolerance limits a tad
too far!!) BTW, (DROOL!) the rest of the picture, is
sure to be as, if not more intriguing???
Sally, just a reminder. Below is the jargon of Christianity at it’s most sublime from Francis.
Whether you are a plant or not, a true Christian would first and foremost be compassionate about the trauma these folks have been through.
A true Christian would seek to understand their pain and the horrors of having families torn apart, friendships discarded, lives totally disrupted.
A true practicing Christian would not make their traumas about you not being understood.
And if you are a true Christian, you can use the jargon of love (BTW I’ve never heard a Christian refer to Christian principles as jargon) and forgive me or anyone from misunderstanding you.
Please forgive me, but all you have said about being a Christian is that you are one. You have shared non of the below “jargon”.
Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen
Speak it Francis!!
Yes, I checked back to see if you’d responded.
Carry on posting. As you can see, it can be very…umm, well the experience is unique. This blog is unique.
You, in MY book, are welcome. I never considered otherwise, and I hope you find it as stimulating, rewarding, challenging and an aid to moving on up a li’l higher as most do.
I’ll of course, maintain my personal integrity (an essay by Mr. Hubbard you should google and read) and would hope you would too.
Here we go, hang on.
+100. You said it exactly.
Sally, it seems to me you are using the ARC triangle with Jim just a little too hard. I’ll be a monkeys uncle but you aint who you say you is.
It’s almost as if there are a bunch of you there, going over Jims post line for line and trying your damndest to be nice (affinity) and talking about his intellectual approach and how you are an English Major also (reality).
I put my money down on troll to win!
Hey, lets talk about Jesus next!
This thread is history, in the fast pace world of this blog. Look, I give a rat’s arse if you are a “troll”, and OSA “plant”, or the ruler of a small Asian nation.
If you wanna carry on a conversation, since this particular thread is dead, then write to me at email@example.com.
Mate, whatever strain the “Oracle” is under via OTHER websites, or emails or whatever it is she is experiencing, it is inappropriate to bring it to THIS forum. That is all I’m getting from Alex.
Funny you should mention it – I just saw “Inglorious Basterds”. I too found fascinating the 3-finger sign in English vs. German. I’ve also heard a story (I think this is right) about being able to tell Americans from Canadians, because only Americans say “You’re welcome” when thanked. You’re welcome. 🙂
**FYI:For some reason, this site delays showing my posts for a day, so although I am responding to you Monday, you will not see my posts until Tuesday. **
Now, the “infamous” phrase of mine that sets off alarms for you, and leads you to believe I am a CO$ plant or spy or worse… I sent that post in the context of having been beaten up pretty badly yesterday on the site (as you can easily confirm). I wondered if my experience was typical, and if people on the site were usually that nasty to each other, especially to new people. I felt discriminated against. Nancy was kind to me, so I asked her whether it was typical for users of the site to be so mean to each other — to “name-call, hurl covert insults, and flame other posters” — all of which happened to me Sunday. I used the phrase “covert insults”, because I could tell I was being attacked, ridiculed, and denigrated by some users, such as yourself — but was not exactly sure how or why — it seemed kind of secret. I could see that the tone of a number of the posts were derogatory and dismissive toward me. But I could not interpret some of the verbiage or names said against me. My phrase “covert insults” means exactly that, “hidden attacks”. That’s all it means to me. However, your diligent pursuit of this phrase and the word “covert” convinces me that it must have some other (sinister?) meaning to you as a Scientologist. But remember: I’m not one; so I don’t know most of the jargon; therefore, how could I possibly use this word as a shibboleth against you or other Scientologists? It’s just a normal word to me!! 🙂
So please Jim, let it go — There is NOTHING there. You seem to be a smart, articulate man, who is sidetracking himself on nothing of importance. There are no hidden meanings in my posts. Just go by the dictionary definitions. And go out there and get the REAL bad guy.
P.S. I imagine your name is fairly common. I seem to recall reading something about a Jim Logan from Australia. Might that be you?
I’ve informed this poster, that they can write to me directly.
All of what you mention here, I’ve noticed. It’s curious.
Still, it makes no difference to me what sort of motivation there is behind this, as one thing about this here blog, “murder will out”. Some very, very sharp minds are present here.
Huh? Why wouldn’t a Christian or ANYONE use the word “covert”? It’s just a word! Example: “The CIA runs a number of covert operations.”
“Covert insults” in my post = “Hidden/Secret/Difficult to decipher things said to malign one’s character”.
“Covert” must have a meaning for you & Jim other than Merriam-Webster, in which it means “secret” or “hidden”. Very innocuous word, for me and most people. I am not a Scientologist, do not know your jargon, so how could I something with ordinary words that sets both you and Jim off?
Sorry I have unknowingly offended you, I’m just talking/writing. Had no idea that by writing my thoughts that I became the enemy. Please stop assuming everyone is against you! It’s so not true…
I’m shaking my head because this is so sad. So who do you think I am? Nothing you have said about me is correct. So let’s start over: I am of another faith, as mentioned before — as are virtually all of the media staff who have published articles and presented televised shows about what CO$ is really like, who have blown CO$ open. They, who have helped you so much, and I are all of other faiths. So what? I am a concerned person with a heart for those who are mistreated, as are the media folks. We are all appalled by the darkness within CO$ and want you and your fellows to be free and happy.
I am but one person with a Mac who likes to communicate, likes to write, wants to be a friend to people for whom she has developed an affinity. I would like to clear up misunderstandings with you and Jim, because I think that’s the right thing to do.
I have no idea what you are saying ARC-wise. My last class on angles was Geometry I in high school.
Why do some people on this site, like you – not everyone – call newcomers like me – that they don’t even know – the derogatory term “trolls”? That is so ugly, and definitely does not make people feel welcome. Almost like calling a black man an Uncle Tom, or any other racial epithet you can think of. And maybe that’s your point: “We mistrust everyone, so we insult them again and again until they like us, dammit!” Luckily others have welcomed me warmly, and also told me that some people would be hard on me, at least initially. I wonder if many of you are initially suspicious of and mistrust everyone outside your circle, because of all the abuse you have all experienced with CO$?
I am not your enemy.
I grew up with “The Prayer of St. Francis” on our living room wall. It is a great prayer for anyone.
Believe me, I understand that you all have experienced trauma of the worst kind — the kind that physically kills people, messes with their minds, and wounds their souls. That is the reason that led me to the site.
Unfortunately, what happened Sunday is not what I intended or expected.
I asked a question, a clarification from one of the TV reports about CO$ which could have been rephrased). I got slammed with an onslaught of accusations, name-calling, hurling of c_v__t insults, flaming of me as a poster, “she is Minerva from that other site, she is a troll, don’t bother replying to her”, etc. So it’s hard to ignore the attacks, which – if you don’t adequately address then as they happen – more and more people will mistrust me. And the post board moves so FAST! So it was not simple matters of, “Does he understand my feelings?”, but “I need to defuse these accusations, so these people I’m talking to know I have the best of intentions, that I am a friend, and am not an enemy”. I think I was successful for the most part – except for you, Jim, and another guy whose name I can’t recall. It probably pains me too much to have people suspicious and angry at me, when they don”t even know me. But I think what you are saying is that St. Francis’s teaching would be, yes, explain yourself to the group but maybe ask questions of those who continue to mistrust me, despite all of my efforts.
Clearly, there has been trauma, there has been damage in how people from your group relate to people on the outside. Most people I know are cautiously friendly with people they do not know. Not your fault, but it seems a number of your group may be suspicious with a hair-trigger temper with people they do not know. I say this as an observation, not a judgment. I’m not used to that at all, but I can try to understand.
Me too palehorse, me too.
I just don’t think anyone reads those websites who’s in Cof$. And quite honestly, they wouldn’t have enough data to even connect the dots to come to any kind of understanding of what the hell is being said there.
But of course, you’re right. Your prediction is spot on as usual.
I just LOVE that David Miscavige had you, Mark Rathbun audit his BFF Tom Cruise for all those hours…
Alright Brian, now I’m pissed.
What I see here in your post is the remnants of a Co$ Scientologist still assuming that non-Scientologists are “wogs” and therefore, incapable of comprehending the basic human processes such as communication; therefore, anyone who claims to be a non-Scientologist but demonstrates a notable facility in the communication process of ARC, MUST be a covert Scientologist from OSA or a Scientology-hater trolling Marty’s blog.
To the rest of you who are convinced that Sally is a troll because of your so-called “sixth-sense” or “heightened OT awareness” – shame on you for giving your verdict as a pretended means to demonstrate your OT abilities by suspecting a well-intentioned, well-educated, and highly capable human being who just happens to NOT have achieved those traits by means of Scientology. Re-read Marty’s book where he reveals his own discovery that Scientology DOES NOT have a monopoly on understanding the mind and spirit.
When you are done, perhaps you might issue an apology to Sally.
If, in your Doubt Formula, you discover that Sally is a troll (whatever that means) then let me know and I will remove myself from your nasty, bigoted attempt to control Marty’s blog.
Marty, if I am wrong in my assessment of Sally’s honest intentions, then please feel free to ban any of my further comments. I am willing to be wrong in this case if it means communicating what I feel is an injustice.
If Sally is a troll for asking honest questions – JUST AS WE ASK THE MAA ONCE WE HAVE THE COURAGE – then I am a troll. If that is true, then Shreff is a troll, Debbie Cooke is a troll, Marty is a troll, etc.
Now, in this light. how many of us had the courage to ask the questions Shreff, Cooke and Marty asked? Did you ask those questions? Did you subject yourself to the enquiry of DM’s party line? I didn’t. I was too scared.
Brian, you go ahead and place your bet that Sally is a troll. I am betting that Sally is just was she says she is – your perception vs. my trust in what Sally has communicated.
We need adjudicators in this bet that you have proposed.
Jim and Marty – perhaps you are the most informed in the determination of this assessment. Would you kindly help determine if Sally is a troll or genuine to her claims?
If I am wrong in my trust, I will humbly admit my error and resign from posting on this blog.
Yvonne, having not read a Freedom mag in many many years, when I was directed to it from here, it literally made me sick to my stomach. It was immediately obvious that it was produced 100% from hate.
psssst…….max……don’t tell anyone….this is just full-on
( teacher) sarkiness …you’ve just been jibed with!!!!
(…..NOT to be taken tooooo seriously, my good friend!)
I think you could address this to the person/ people who first suggested Sally was an enemy. None of that came from Marty. These witch hunts are highly re stimulative to people and charge up the atmosphere. Consider the source always. It is enturbulating on a third flow. Especially if bullies grate on your nerves. Please do not withdraw support from under Marty. That would be an injustice as he was not the source on this. As for the people reckless with his comm lines, easy to waste something you did not have to build. Please get up to “think”.
There are many reasons people come on to blogs and do not give full details about themselves. It is not always an evil reason. Seldom is it an evil reason. It can be from some other fear and usually is. This was meant to be a safe space.
If you “give a rat’s arse” why all the noise? Your smack downs are getting more and more violent. We are living on a prison planet. You got sent here too.
I have sent no entheta his way, neither someone pretending to be me. I have done nothing but contribute to him and cover his back. I have inherited many of his enemies , a royal burden as there are so many, and only CONTRIBUTED TO him and his family. I love to explain away people’s rightness more than anyone I know. This is straight up wrong. It effects my children. The trespass is beyond a measure of “misunderstanding”. As you move forward to cover his ass and hope for the best, so did I. I did it for several years. Then, I was USED as a weapon to tear down Trey Lotz. who has been sitting in the chair 40+ years auditing people. I was USED like a paper plate at a picnic. I have to ask myself, “Who ? / What ? would tear down someone auditing full time and a P.C. trying to get up the bridge? Pierre would! Pierre did! And what would be the purpose behind that? To destroy. To stop. To unmock the bridge for people in So. Cal.
If that is what you choose to protect and push forward, that is a personal matter. But it ain’t me Babe.
I could be wrong, if I am I apologize. Wouldn’t be the first time I did not see clearly.
If my perception is off, I apologize to everyone:-)
Sally, there are so many sects of Christianity. Which one do you follow?
Maybe if I knew more about you, things would get nice again:-)
Hi Sally J. I got your reply because I figured out how to get them to come to my inbox w/out having to go back to the post!
You are very welcome here. I have studied Scientology teachings since 1977 and spent 20 years on staff in the SO. If I can help with any questions/references send me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org.
And yes, that is also what my dad called me! Cute 🙂
Alex, Please point out to me the “Innocent people” got sprayed with my BPC so I can handle that. You are right, that is not O.K.! Please list them here so I can address that. Thank you for your efforts to lift the atmosphere.
Sally, I concur, and it is a real pleasure to have
her presence, along with the accompanying “fire.”
As several of us have already attempted to do,
but not as clearly as Nancy, we really welcome you
here. As I tried to point out to you earlier, though
the ride can be bumpy, at times, over the long
haul it is extremely and richly rewarding!
So, please, Sally, do stick around okay?
Durban, South Africa
Then how about bringing THIS to the forum, JIm?
Assume the efforts of the OTHER dynamics, as
your own, not just exclusively focussed on your
own 1st dynamic. That’s what the ol’ man meant,
when he spoke of assuming FULL responsibility.
(ref, booklet 29 of the Professional Course
DYNAMICS AND THE TONE SCALE techique 80)
BTW, Jim, from all accounts, Marty can do a simply
fabulous job of assisting and getting you through
such a “realization” (assuming you agreed to this!)
and, apart from the liberating effects, achieved,
it WONT cost you an arm & a leg!
Use it, lose it, immaterial to me, either way.
Oh, one more thing, Jim.
It’s called CARING!
Thank you Calvin, for your welcome & encouragement – That was sweet.
Let’s try it again. I get it. You don’t like me, and may even hate me, and think I’m evil. Oh well. I don’t feel that way about you, because I don’t even know you. I will do my bet not to take it personally, and not to hold it against you.
Being new on the site, since the communication moves real-time, I thought it important to clarify misunderstandings I had caused, from things such as a misphrased question, or a word that sounds like CO$ to one guy. I got beat up pretty badly on the site, and was upset and frustrated at being called names and being insulted. So I asked why, and became defensive– a weakness of mine. Thankfully I ran into some kind and gentle souls who said everyone goes through the bumps on this site..
No doubt I took it all far too personally than I should have. It sounds like you may have seen my frustration and thought, “A lot of people are yelling at her; she is very defensive, therefore, she must be an evil person with wrong motivations,” rather than, “This is someone trying to defend herself who is being misjudged, therefore, maybe an OK person.”
Apology accepted. Thank you so much for that.
Okay? Thanks, for sharing the experience, T.O.
Will keep a closer eye to this scenario.Pays to
never shut down the antennae, ever!
Wow, I don’t even know what to say. Thank you for standing up for me in such an articulate and brave manner. Another demonstration of your kindness and compassion to me from Day 1.
May I make a request: If you decide to have some kind of review, please select people who can truly be impartial towards me.
I mean no offense or disrespect toward Jim — but I believe that he cannot be impartial towards me, at this point in time. Maybe at some point in the future, but not just yet. We can speak further offline if you wish.
Another idea could be mutual observation on the blog over a period of time. I am willing to go under whatever scrutiny you and Marty feel is appropriate. I just ask to be treated fairly.
Ha ha! I certainly would like things to get nice again! 🙂 I haven’t really heard the word “sect” used much in my faith. Let me research and get back to you on that. I do know that Christianity was originally considered a Jewish sect, since the earliest Christians were all Jewish.
Do you mean denomination? I don’t really consider myself a particular denomination. I could be part of any “orthodox” biblical church. A friend of mine said once, “I’m a plain wrap Christian who goes to a name brand church.” That’s me. Denomination not important; what is important are the Bible, teachings, beliefs. There are, strangely, some “Christian” churches that don’t believe in Christ (???) Go figure – Kind of reminds me of CO$ warping your faith, to not even resemble the original.
You earlier mentioned “jargon” and “precepts”. Precepts = beliefs, teachings. I’ve always understood “jargon” to mean verbiage, words, vocabulary, that may have a special meaning to one group different from the standard meaning to most people outside that group. Every faith, profession, nationality, etc. has jargon, musicians, dancers, athletes, chefs, medical staff, other groups have their own words. They can be almost like a foreign language. It’s pretty interesting, actually. Christians often do not know they are using jargon, until they realize a non-Christian has no idea what they are talking about. Scientologists have a wealth of words, phrases, and a TON of acronyms (you may have more than the military!), and abbreviations, that are kind of like another language. I am not an expert by any stretch, but I seem to pick up Scn jargon easier by reading and trying to figure out the context, i.e., substitute another word to see if it makes sense, which may then be a meaning of the Scn word. I’m finding that some words neutral to me may be suspicious to someone who was mistreated by CO$. So I keep learning and trying.
I don’t have a problem tugging on Superman’s cape, spitting into the wind, pulling the mask off the old Lone Ranger…….. I like to do the thing that scares me.
What a handsome one you are! Wanna go to the Sadie Hawkins dance? We could eat SWEET CORN – Just be careful of that “space” between your teeth!
Hard to believe that anyone could take that seriously. I don’t think it’s even photoshopped – I think they used Elmer’s glue, stuck a hat on you and yanked out one of your teeth with a black Sharpie. Disgusting. So unprofessional. I can’t imagine ANY business doing this to former employees or clients… let alone a CHURCH!! How embarrassing, to have to treat this site, use it, talk about it as if it were a valid news source…
Thank you for accepting my apology Sally. After all it’s all about redemption and love and learning huh?
I’ve always said,” being confidently wrong can be a very healing way of feeling right” 🙂
Some here have blogged deceptions. The way to determine those deceptions is with one easy question: do I feel more light feeings after reading them? or do I feel negative feelings after reading them?
It’s a very simple question, and when I have trusted it, it has helped me to see the true nature of those before me and avoid the consequenses of their under nourished and misguided hearts and minds.
Nice. And well said 🙂