Those who know Narconon president Gary Smith and have worked in or with his Narconon flagship facility might have a similar response to tonight’s NBC Rock Center episode on Narconon to mine. That is, what insane orders has David Miscavige’s Scientology Inc issued that resulted in such a meltdown? Four people dying at Narconon? One person is too many. And even that would have been inconceivable ten years ago. And Narconon and Gary Smith showing the same type of disdain for human life that one has come to expect from David Miscavige? What has become of Narconon?
I predict that David Miscavige’s scorched earth policies will result in the most fatal blow to the Narconon program. Those policies were evident in Narconon’s responses to the program: no cooperation, lie and attack the attacker.
Those policies are also evident in a fresh piece of evidence that I have included below.
Please see the email sent out in a blast to Scientologists across the world from Sigal Adini of Narconon in Los Angeles. Realize that this was sent out well before the show aired tonight. Tell me, how does this e-mail measure up with the show this evening? What does it say about Scientology Inc’s role vis a vis Narconon? What does it say about Scientology Inc’s absurd and vehement denials that it has any responsibilities for Narconon?
Four deaths is “the same old crap”? Whose words and sentiments are those?
The instructions to blast NBC and attempt to spike the show came from “up the line?” Who might that be in Scientology Inc micro manage culture?
We need a favor, more of a 3D/4D favor. I am reaching out to you
because I know you can be tone 40 about this. It is a short cycle
but needs push.
Narconon is about to get a big attack on NBC news tonight.
Same old crap, we’ve survived it before and will again but your help is
needed. This is of course a Scientology attack as well.
We got instructions from up the line to have everyone call in and
complain about this one sided biased show and say that they
personally know people whose lives have been saved by NN. You know
Tony, my husband, 35 years clean, I think you know Robert Hernandez
and Bobbie Wiggins, Patty Schwartz, all NN graduates all clean for
decades. So you are not going to lie because you do know people who
did the Narconon program. But you are pissed that they would
portray a program that helps people every day and staff who
bust their ass working 12-16 hours days to save people’s lives in such
a bad light.
You can see the preview and article on their website, (NBC Rock Center). Four people died in three and half years at Narconon Arrowhead. For your information two had medical issues and their cause of death is not known. One snuck drugs back to the center when she came back from an LOA and overdosed and I am not sure what happened to the forth.
This whole story completely ignores the fact that 200,000 people
die every year (550 per day) from pharmaceuticals – typical!
Narconon Arrowhead has serviced 10K people in 19 years and had
four deaths, two of them we know for sure were completely not
attributable to the program itself.
Now comes your part, we need you to call the station and leave a
message for the producer. Anna Schecter. It is getting harder and
harder to reach her (email full, voice mail full) so that is why I
need someone like you, tone 40 who won’t back off by a couple
of barriers. You call 212-664-4444, ask for Rock Center (that is
her show), you want to talk to Anna Schecter, she won’t be there, you
want to talk to her secretary, you do not want to leave a comment
in the general mail box, you want to talk to someone in her office
or talk to her personally. Don’t use Scientology lingo. Leave a
message and let me know when done.
Can you do this?
Narconon Drug Prevention and Rehab
Addiction Treatment and Drug
Abuse Prevention Specialist
888-800-8331 Toll free, direct
Sigal Adini’s parents are Ami and Rivka Adini of Los Angeles, very affluent corporate Scns who are heavily into the koolaid.
(Marty, please delete my earlier post. I accidentally hit send before it was done. Thanks!)
There’s this little thing called RESPONSIBILITY. You should look into getting some since it’s a vital part of going free.
Did or didn’t these people die on your watch? Enough said.
[OMG! Same old crap?!?! How repulsive!] Do you have a similar overt of your own, Sigal Adini, of spewing the same old crap?
Good, it will get more people to secretly watch the show or go online and start reading – I love when the cult basically alerts their members to programs that give them the truth. (or a severe reality adjustment – not the DM version)
Also, lots of fudging and lying as always in their email. There have been 4 deaths in the past YEAR – not years. They are killing people with their utter quackery at an alarming rate. One girl did die because she brought/took drugs in the facility – but rather than call 911 when she showed symptoms of an OD they just let her die because they were more worried about “another flap” being caused by alerting real medical professionals.
Besides the real purpose of Narconon arrowhead is not to cure addiction but to create Scientologists and/or the facade of some actual social contribution/ help to society. The fact that they turn around and hire “recent grads of Narconon” immediately as staff and reggs is insane. An addict needs a few years of proven clean time and recovery before they should even think about counseling other addicts.
The disdain for human life is sickening!
How about you simply invite everyone over to try and do something to better the situation like…. let’s see….. fish the turd out of the deep end of the pool!, put there by the person instructing you from “up the line”.
How about some honesty in your communication! Truth = As-Is nes whereas lies persists the situation well okay I’ll be blunt… THE OVERT .
It’s unfortunate youve become too comfortable with the turd in the pool. Maybe you think it came from a special place!
Handle your own flaps dudette. All your doing is perpetuating the passing of the buck as you are now setting up all those you’ve emailed to feel guilty if they don’t call or make contact with anyone. Then as per the new standard NN (Scn Inc.) has someone to directly blame and announce as the source of why NN was shut down in he end.
How about ask them all to come down and pass out ethics interog’s and compile the results!
It sucks to be David Miscavige!
Yeah — funny how many Scientology resources are being thrown at defending a rehab that supposedly has nothing to do with Scientology, eh?..
Thank you for posting this, Marty. For an outsider, the email is a vivid example of how the attack machine works.
Can these people not at least pretend not to have a callous disregard for the human life under their charge?
PRICELESS INFO!!! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT!!!
Pingback: Narconon – Scientology Inc Cover Up « 31 Factors
Scientology is doing a DDOS attack on NBC! Isn’t that illegal?
Just left a message for Sigal..funny…no answer. They are DONE!
The NN program is so totally based on trust in the public eye, owing to such factors as cost, association with Scn Corp, results, etc. that this kind of publicity could, indeed, kill it. Attacking the show will only have a negative affect for NN. The show’s producers will make a bigger show of this and NN will be the one suffering – worse, LRH’s valid tech will be denigrated and that’s flat out WRONG!
Thank you for posting that e-mail. Now we can call Rock Center and talk to Anne and thank her for airing this program. I know people who went there and it did not help. The staff are former addicts working 12 hour days for free. Make your calls and report back here!
So Sigal Adini (whom ever that is) affirms only 4 deaths in the past, albeit the past 2 years. Hmmm. Please EVERYONE call in and completely overwhelm the Rock Center, don’t take no for an answer.
Lets not forget the unreported deaths off lines, and in the hands of OSA’s pre-Narconon care, and they weren’t pretty. Shotgun to the head one young lady, chewed up and spit out by a commercial snowblower the other. Documented fact, and that’s just two stories one person could tell the details of.
Be afraid David, be very afraid.
The coverup is actually not surprising to me. It is late on the chain of events. The early incidents must have to do with David Miscavige’s neglect and degradation of Narconon. He has and has had the money, to make and keep Narconon being, the world’s leading drug rehab program. David Miscavige could have made sure the Narconons, especially Chilocco, could have been well-staffed with Doctors, nurses and competent staff. How much of those millions the IAS has regged, did he put into Narconon? I’m willing to bet, practically zilch. He neglected Narconon just as he neglected and left to twist slowly in the wind, CCHR.
David Miscavige simply didn’t and doesn’t care. It sure looks to me like he has long-since attained that state LRH referred to, of “dispassionately wrecking things”. These things he has wrecked and continues to wreck, are any and all of the people and organizations related to LRH and Scientology. Any activity LRH and true Scientologists have originated to improve conditions and help people, David Miscavige has wrecked and continues to relentlessly wreck in any way he can.
David Miscavige is the complete 1.1 on overdrive. Whatever his PR says about him, you can bet the opposite is true.
You know what Sigal? Regarding “For your information two had medical issues” – that’s why you have medical professionals on staff that are available 24/7. The purif is a rigorous program – what the hell are you doing running it with little to no medical supervision?
And legitimate concern and inquiries because of 4 deaths is the “same old crap”???
Talk about a no-responsibility case and a complete asshole.
The Church of Scientology’s official statement to NBC totally not-ised the deaths at Narconon. In their statement, there was absolutely no mention of and no sympathy shown for these four tragic deaths, and no condolences to the families who’s children died. Zero. Zilch. Corporate Scientology has no soul. They have no class nor any grace in society.
The Church of Scientology has turned into the stinky scorge of society.
Scorge: Def 2; a highly offensive term for human or animal excrement. shit or poo
This is really awful! Trying to make nothing out of 4 deaths? I would love to see what corporate $cn would say about another facility, let’s say Betty Ford, that had 4 people die in such a short period of time.
If Freedom magazine hadn’t been coopted to serve Miscavige’s obsession with ‘bitter, defrocked apostates’ you might have been able to read such things.
Also, “had medical issues” would seem to be confidential info that no one like Sigal should have access to, and no one should be releasing such data to the public without consent of next of kin or whatever. Huh?
I do feel sorry for each of the relatives of the deceased. However, in all fairness, we should be given the comparable datum of number of deaths at other rehab centers. I do not advocate tar-and-feathers based on unevaluated data.
I would like the FBI and the IRS to get VERY interested in just how much money Narconon has sent to any of david miscavige’s corporations.
I’ve worked with Narconon in the past. The program has a tremendous potential which is stiffled and suppressed by the know-best attitude of david miscavige and many of his minions. It is the interference of ignorant assholes like miscavige and other stupid, arrogant, idiot sea org members which is preventing Narconon from advancing into the 21st century and realizing its full potential.
The bulk of the public perception of Narconon would be very favorable if the retards of the sea org would let the real professionals do their fucking jobs.
Helping people get off drugs takes hard work, real skill and staying on top of recent developments from many different fields. It is the sea org and miscavige minions who are criminally negligent. And, just as they are destroying orgs, they are collapsing Narconon into oblivion.
If the professionals at Narconon want to keep doing their jobs and helping people, they should walk out the door, start their own corporations and centers and tell miscavige to fuck off.
And to Sigal Adini: No you stupid bitch, it’s not the “same old crap.” People are dead. Don’t you friggin get that?????
Stay tuned. I’ve already had two confidential informants (responding to this post) provide particulars to support my suspicion that it is DM’s Scientology Inc psychosis that is at bottom of NN’s meltdown.
The Scn Inc defense & offense is waaaay too quiet, MIA, AWOL; left the field following Debbie’s punt. Looks like the meltdown is spreading like a cancer. The LE investigation and raid starts in Oklahoma and works it’s way to the Hole in Hemet.
That was my first thought when I heard about this scene generally. However, Gary Smith had full, a-ok from me directly when I was IG in 02 to go ahead and set up medically supervised withdrawal (based on a record of severe need); and now I see that has been cross-ordered. These were preventable deaths. Medicos (love em or hate em) could have prevented them; and DM’s corporate Scn knew of the need and opted not to fullfil it.
Sigal is married to Tony Bylsma, and together they work at this Narconon thing full time. They believe they are doing good and are unaware of the machinations of the evil midget underneath it all.
“Our prayers are with the families of the deceased,” said Smith in a statement.
This sticks in my craw like a nightcrawler on a barbed hook!
Thank God I am an atheist!
I watched the show and couldn’t help but think how things could have been so different.
There is a lot of good stuff with the tech, but with dm’s greed and out tech he has driven the PR of Scientology to an all time low. If Scientology really were creating good effects in society it would probably have many people defending it.
I have a freind who works at a Narconon and he/she told me that the person running it uses the money earned at the Narconon to give to the IAS and other Scietntology related projects. AND that because of this they do not pay their own staff on time. Also that they hire the ex-druggies once they finish the program to actually work as staff at the Narconon!! What a recipe for disaster.
Well, Missmanage, you reap what you sew punk!!
SaveScientology.com has some good articles about how these kind of situations should be handled. Disgustingly, Co$’s standard handling is not quite so.
—Start of quote—
“Corporate America eventually learned to discard the “deny everything, attack the whistleblower” strategy, and developed a protocol for whistleblower claims of corruption, which is basically this:
● Don’t attack the whistleblowers;
● Immediately launch an internal investigation headed by reputable professionals and persons who are neither implicated in the wrongdoing or subordinate to those who are;
● Announce the results of the investigation;
● Publicly discipline those responsible for wrongdoing; and
● Put in place and publicly announce internal mechanisms to prevent the recurrence of unethical behavior.
Not surprisingly, this protocol parallels the Danger Formula developed by LRH.”
—End of quote—
Of course, in this case, “reputable professionals and persons who are neither implicated in the wrongdoing or subordinate to those who are” should be people not tied to Co$.
—Start of quote—
“What is needed are independent, internal investigations. “…”In a prior article, we referred to this action as the Corporate America Protocol for handling situations like this.
For a live example on how to do this right, refer to the Penn State University child sex scandal. One of America’s most storied football programs was engulfed in a maelstrom of negative publicity, a grand jury and criminal charges of top officials.
The University trustees hired former FBI director Louis Freeh and his risk management firm to conduct a thorough internal investigation and make the results public. Freeh didn’t hold back. He named names, and gave details. And he recommended fixes to ensure the situation never happens again. Some of the administrators he called out, including the University’s hallowed football coach, the late Joe Paterno, are now reviled by the general public, their reputations ruined.
But the University has now separated itself from the scandal, taken responsibility for the lack of oversight, and been given a chance to live on. It will resurrect its image if it implements the Freeh recommendations, as they have stated publicly they will do. Already they have averted a lifetime ban of the football program.”
—End of quote—
The RockCenter program was painful to watch…
Louisiana’s Narconon MD beware. The tech is TOTALLY OUT and YOU, my old friend, will be held responsible when something happens to one of YOUR patients in Narconon.
my questions are : does nn works? are the participants checked by admission for pre existing conditions? is the nn program changed since lrh and how? if yes how and who changed it. thanks in advance, I know the questions might be unreasonable for the well informed but I’m not one of them 🙂
Forwarding “enemy lines” on parishoner comm lines? I guess we add “Glutz PR” to the long list of outpoints, crimes and departures from LRH policy.
I don’t think Narconon Arrowhead will make it through this one. It’s license will be cancelled and it will be shut down and I would not be surprised if criminal charges are levied. These deaths are inexcusable, period. And they know it. Gary Smith sold his soul a long time ago, so his heartless response is no surprise. their PR strategy will backfire. No amount of “all the lives we’ve saved” can make up the damage to those families that lost their loved ones under Narconon’s care. It takes a great deal of hard work to supervise and get a person off drugs. I suspect that the neglect which preceeded these losses were in a large part from staff who just don’t care as much as they should because there are no real incentives in place to care enough. How much do they get paid? Do they have health care, retirement prpgrams etc? These things in place would go a long way to making for a more professional staff scene. Arrowhead makes money enough to hire qualified personnel. But I doubt normally practiced personnel programs are not in place there because I am sure that every available penny is sucked out of them via “trademark useage” fees, etc, IAS etc. I agree with LDW. If Narconon was left alone it would be in a whole different place.
If you’re going to run a drug rehab center you better know how to handle people who might sneak drugs back in, come in from an LOA on drugs, etc. It comes with the territory. It’s not a church.
People pay big bucks to go there. The least they could do is be properly staffed.
While I’m glad to see many posters here are facing the truth about Narconon, I’m still a little dismayed that there are some who believe that the fundamental theories and practices of Narconon are effective and beneficial, and that it’s only Miscavige who wrecked it.
It’s simply not the case that Narconon was once good and DM made it bad; it was always bad and DM just made it worse.
Hubbard was wrong; drugs are NOT stored fat cells; sweating in a sauna for 5 hours is dangerous; giving massive doses of niacin (which is broken down in the liver) to people who may already have damaged livers from drug and alcohol abuse is dangerous.
Narconon was flawed from the start.
One of the deceased patients was made to yell at another patient while they sat there and took it (TR-0). Other patients in other facilities had to talk to the ashtray (TR-8).
Non-Scientologists should NOT be made to do the Training Routines! They should NOT be made to go through the Purif! I really don’t care if some people think LRH tech works for THEM; If these were designed as religious practices, they should NOT be imposed on others, ESPECIALLY if they’re there on court-order!
I do believe this is “the same old crap” from Scientology inc.
Maybe the show organisers could do with some love bombing to counter the harassment… I would but I get charged too much from UK.
Do we know the real impact of this call to arms on NBC? I know it’s amazing the hassle just a few people can cause.
“I am not sure what happened to the forth.”
Gawd, doesn’t that just say it all? “I’m not sure, they died, no big deal.” WTF is that? How about taking some ownership for the people that die in your care? Unbelievable! The arrogance and lack of concern is just shocking.
This whole mess is so sad and so stupid. They had the OK from you to do medically supervised withdrawals. This makes perfect sense because medical supervision has always been required for people with certain medical conditions anyway on the purif, anyway. So, why not for people with severe drug addictions? A good, bright idea. It possibly could have prevented these deaths.
But then things got even stupider in the way the PR “experts” decided to respond to media reports. Good old Heber, who is locked up in the Hole, would have handled tthe public relations aspect with one little pinky finger. He would have emphasized his and Narconon’s real CONCERN for those who O.D.ed and probably announced steps (like the ones you OKed) to reduce the dangers of withdrawal in the future. He might have given some perspective by mentioning that people have died while doing withdrawal in other programs also, but he would NEVER have used that fact as an EXCUSE for Narconon’s inability to prevent these deaths. He would not accept that low level of expectation, or “positioning”. He would have emphasized the intention that this was not acceptable to Narconon.
Instead, the COS “PR expert” (read Miscavige) decided to pour gasoline on the fire by taking no responsibility. I highly doubt that that is how the Narconon staff feel about it right now.
When handling a situation like this and the resulting bad PR, it is so much easier to simply CARE and demonstrate that caring with one’s actions.
Narconon Swtzerland was funded by the Swiss government and run by a couple of OTs, one of whom was a doctor and checked in on the patients several times a week and sometimes every day if needed. Drove 40 miles every time, 20 of which on a narrow mountain road. Now, that’s dedication. They had a a pretty good success rate and only a very small percentage of the patients became Scientologists after they finished the program. Narconon Switzerland wasn’t interested in making Scientologists, they were interested in helping people. A few years ago, the Swiss government stopped funding them and opened a meth centre in the area, next to a primary school, and Narconon Switzerland had to close down. But they were getting results and they took good care of the patients. Never had a PR flap as far as I know. The Narconon program, well applied and run, works.
I’ve been coming to the conclusion that Narconon is primarily
a cash cow for Scientology Inc. If Sigal’s comment that
10K =10,000 people have done the Narconon program is correct
then as it costs approx $25,000 per person thats an income of
$250,000,000. And it seems thats just for one Narconon facility.
And for your money you don’t get adequate medical care. Another aspect of that is that there have been a few people with permanently damaged livers because of the high levels of Niacin. This is of particular interest to those with an extensive history of drugs who may very well have compromised livers in the first place. Suitable medical liver tests should be part of the purif program, especially in the context of drug rehab.
I recently found out that amino acids were considered in the pilot programs of the purif but were dropped because they were expensive. It may also be well worth including chlorella/cilantro supplements as they are good at getting rid of heavy metals and Dioxins.
Yet again corporate Scn is showing itself to be the kiss of death to good programs and demonstrating that cash uplines is the only stat they care about.
4 people die and it’s the “same old crap”? The callous cult strikes again. It makes me wonder how many other deaths/problems/issues there are that we haven’t heard about.
I don’t think Sigal’s email to the flock was very well thought out. From a group that specializes in hiding the truth, she included a bit too much info. This may come back to haunt them.
I am not a specialist, but I have read that “the Hole” is installed in trailers. If some official investigation is launched, that will be easy to move quickly the trailers into some hidden zone and the investigators will find nothing. That sounds odd to use a trailer as a prison, but that allows a quick escape if needed.
My wife’s a medic and her immediate repost to this story was that the FIRST time there was a hint of some one getting into serious trouble, after making sure the individual got the needed medical help SHOULD have been to call in the relevant authorities themselves for help to ensure nothing like it happened again. A sort of Danger handling if you will. This would have had the added benefit of ensuring the authorities were “on board” by taking a proactive approach rather than make-self-right-and-everybody-else-wrong. It is almost certain, given the cultish suspicion and us-and-them mentality towards anything medical, that there was insufficient trained medics around and if there were, that they weren’t utilised properly.
As a footnote to the above, a comical example of the double standards applied to medics, there’s a local public, very thirsty KA drinker. Let’s call him John – as that’s his name. He writes to me to try and extort some money after I’ve recently gone Indie publicly. (Epic fail on that). He also tells me his son is recovering nicely after his serious injury that my wife helped treat in hospital. Now, I had no idea his son was even in hospital since my wife takes patient confidentiality seriously. So here on the one hand he writes me, a die-hard SP, out the blue demanding money, and in the same mail, acknowledges my wife for helping him with conventional medicine! Go figure.
As for this: “This whole story completely ignores the fact that 200,000 people
die every year (550 per day) from pharmaceuticals – typical!
Narconon Arrowhead has serviced 10K people in 19 years and had
four deaths, two of them we know for sure were completely not
attributable to the program itself.” If we take his figures at face value, that’s a 0.04% death rate. Doesn’t seem like much, but I very much doubt that’s the same rate for those taking properly prescribed medicines.
Finally, on the way home from North London yesterday I stopped to get some fish and chips (as you do). There was a leaflet from the “Foundation for a drug-free world” on the counter. It had a familiar look to it and sure enough, it is a highly condensed version of the “truth about drugs” lecture. But here’s the thing – it’s actually quite good, and I could see it being somewhat effective. And if it wasn’t for the fact people will find it’s linked to the hated Co$ cult would probably be quite a good thing.
“…and I am not sure what happened to the forth.” Really???
Exactly. In the Protect David Miscavige at ALL COSTS, show that is the present Church of Scientology, anything, everything, can and will be trashed including the incredible accomplishments of the NN program.
(A few years ago, a close friend asked me if I had heard of the NN program. She’d done her own research of drug programs and came up with NN and its efficacy, and wanted to know if I knew of it. She had NO idea at that time I was a Scientologist.
I told her what I knew. Her niece went on the program and beat a heroin addiction. It saved this girl’s life. )
This is what I know. David Miscavige has put so many TURDS in the punch bowl that the punch bowl has overflowed all the punch and its run all over Scientologys floor.
A B of I should be held on NN to discover “WHY” all NN are not ALL Dead !
One concession is that street drugs are much more powerful than the summer of love days. Highly addictive ultra dangerous while NN goes in the opposite direction of being totally ineffective. Result is body count goes out the roof
D. M I hope you get this.
THere are many photos available of the Hole and you will have a hard time finding the “trailers” — so much construction has been done around them. They would have to be demolished to be moved.
Terril — this is the wrong outpoint. It’s not the money flow, as any money flow to ABLE Int and NN Int is minimal in the overall scheme of things. The off purpose nature of this activity is that the Church uses Narconon to claim how it is doing enormous good in the world — “public benefit”. Until something goes wrong, then it has nothing to do with it (other than to issue orders to them not to speak to the media and “don’t mention the church”…). And as is usual, the “65” Narconon Centers around the world consists of about 10 places where drug rehab is done and some “starter groups” that do “drug education” by handing out fliers.
Why don’t we all call Scientology Int at 323-960-3500 and demand miscabbage is put in jail.
I think what other organizations do is irrelevant. This type of think will only make organizations work towards the lowest common denominator. 4 deaths in 1 year is too many, it doesn’t matter whether we have a “dog in this fight or not”.
THere is plenty of evidence of the efficacy of the Narconon program. I know a number of people who would not be alive today were it not for Narconon. Maybe they would have gotten a result at some other program — but that is not the point (and I have met many people who have been through multiple programs and relapsed and the only one that got a permanent result was NN).
There are also many popular “bible-based” drug rehab programs. Even AA is bible based.
What is wrong with Narconon is as Marty says — it is infested with RCS know-best and control. It’s not “the program” that is wrong. It’s the administration of it.
I just found this online regarding Issac Hayes death. I haven’t done deep research on it but it certainly smacks of a similarity.
Anyone tell us more info regarding this celebrity death and CO$
THat’s a good theory about corporate America….
It seems the author of that is unfamiliar with Wall Street.
Miscavige is trying to emulate the “big boys” — ignore all evidence, deny any wrongdoing, claim those who are pointing out their crimes have ulterior motives, and carry on raping, pillaging and living the high life.
That is the model the RCS follows.
This is from yesterday. A non-scientologist.
“I have just completed my purification program and am thrilled with the results. It has given me greater insight of myself and allowed me to purge demons that have dogged me for decades. I feel as if life is a more worthwhile endeavor and am looking forward to further progress than I could have imagined before the program. I think that it is one of the most beneficial things for me that I have ever done. I think that everyone should go through it if possible.”
The fundamental theories and practices of Narconon are actually extremely effective. I’m very sorry you have untrue, fixed ideas that prevent you from seeing that.
To MRinder: Thanks for the clarification. Now it makes perfect sense. Of course they don’t have 65 rehab’s. More straight up and vertical lies!
It’s about the money. I was in comm for over a year with a guy who oversaw all the WUS narconon’s. He told me how CMO PAC was always breathing down his back for Gross Income. If the Income dropped just a bit there were “investigations”. He was not Sea Org but working 18 hr days. Narconon Arrowhead was also pressured for Income and a percentage of their Income is sent to “Management”.
I find everything about this tragic: 1) the senseless deaths that should never have occurred; 2) That if COS is going to run the show, they care nothing about people’s lives and do not insist on proper medical supervision round the clock for the drug rehab program they want to brag about; 3) that Narconon staff have been conditioned by COS/COB that burying flaps is more important than lives lost and public reporting on and investigation of senseless deaths is just “the same old crap” that needs to be attacked; 4) The COS PR response which literally does not even acknowledge that any deaths occurred and instead reads like an ad for Narconon.
Serious question: If drugs are stored in fat cells and are sweated out shouldn’t one be able to measure the drugs that are gotten ride of? Seems to me I heard a similar argument made by a Church spokesperson (might have been TC) regarding “chemical imbalances” in regards psych drugs i.e. if there is an imbalance then it should be able to be measured. My question isn’t intended as a knock on the Purf – I had great wins doing mine – but is a question that that has bugged me if the drugs that are released could be measured it would think it would make the program far more acceptable to the medical community.
There was an original training program set up at Narconon Arrowhead for any staff in the United States (and I think in the world). Staff trainees would come and actually train and apprentice at Narconon Arrowhead. The training program was thorough and produced good results. It wasn’t just a technical training program but also administrative and even new Executive Directors would apprentice through the entire organization.
Narconon Arrowheads focus then was put on “Income” as a make wrong “Look at the beautiful building and surroundings we gave you, you should be making bundles!” The training program was sabotaged and the Executive Council was run on “Income” just like all the other Churches of Scientology are now run by DM. Any good exec knows what happens when you go on an Income Stat Push and knock out training. But then DM destroyed the Management Units that would be overseeing Narconon’s.
Thanks all for posting that email, Truth & Transparency will over come lies & deceit!!
Narconon staff paying for sexual favors from clients with drugs?
Training drills instead of addiction counseling?
Megadoses of Niacin and 5 hour saunas?
Paying “bounties” for new clients? http://bit.ly/N5pyJ6
Any one of these would be a significant ethical violation in addiction treatment. All together? Shut ’em down.
Working in addiction treatment I get calls from people asking about Narconon. My first question is: “Do you want your kid in the Church of Scientology?” (Horrified response) “No! They didn’t tell me that!”
No one mentions CoS unless you ask about it.
Is that ethical? No.
Religious rehabs identify themselves as such. So, if Scientology wants to run a rehab it should be identified as a religious program. Otherwise, why is “the purif rundown” part of their program?
Why does CoS hide behind a “secular organization”?
“It seems the author of that is unfamiliar with Wall Street.”
Amen to that bro.
Trillions sucked out of the US economy by outright fraud and manipulation. And not one person involved has been brought to justice, at least to my knowledge…
I think Sigal should grab the bull by the horns. She should call a meeting with the families of the 4 people who died at Narconon. She should just state her honest feelings:
“Can you people just knock off trying to make us wrong? Two of your kids had earlier medical problems and we don’t really know why they died, another was out ethics. We did her a special favor and let her return to her drug environment in the middle of the program and she brought drugs back with her! The 4th, well I’m not sure what happened to the 4th, but you get the point. I’m sure there are others that are more incompetent and evil then us, so can you just move on and stop picking on us!”
This email is an admission against interest by NN/CoS. Not only does she, as an official of NN, coldly admit negligence by NN, (she admits that the deaths of two of the victims were attributable to NN, she admits that she knows about the victims’ medical conditions (a HIPAA violation), and she admitts that NN did not stop drugs from being brought into the facility) but she does it at a time when lawsuits have either been filed or will be filed, and she does it publicly (i.e., she sent a blast email). The victims’ families should be able to use this in any wrongful death lawsuits. The lawyers for NN/CoS must be extremely unhappy about this, to put it mildly. This is a HUGE mistake by NN/CoS!
What? I remember my Mother saying, when I tried to justify my misbehavior by point to what ‘Johnny’ did … ‘If Johnny jumped off a bridge would you do it too?’
The point of the post is that Narconon, which, when run correctly, had miraculous results, has now fallen in with the other “well only 4 died” drug ‘treatment’ centers. Sure, Narconon is “no worse” than the rest.
Four people died — and if honest and forthright investigation reveals that these people would not have died but for the mis-management of Narconon imposed by the Cult of Miscavology, then Narconon, like the so-called “Church of Scientology” is dead, done and gone, and does not deserve anyone’s support.
Let it perish with the “Church of Scientology” while those who actually know how to help, do so.
Does John Travolta know his jet was used to recover Annie Broeker before she got sick?
Good info Marty, and yes, what I couldn’t quite express above was, “ONE death is too many if it is YOUR loved one. “Better statistics than the drugged populace” means nothing to the bereaved families.
Marty, I’d like to point up another major DM technical alteration concerning Narconon. In the late 1980s early 1990s the first real marketing for Narconon was just beginning. Part of that program was to sort out and establish just what services Narconon should be delivering as part of it’s program. Guess who called all the shots on that? You guessed it — and it wasn’t LRH.
LRH said a full drug handling must include a drug rundown to handle the underlying reason a person turned to drugs in the first place. But David Miscavige forbid any actual auditing from the program. So here we wound up with a FRAUDULENT service: a “drug treatment” program that does not actually do a drug handling. All it does was TRs and a Purif and some courses. Oops! What about handling the factors a person became ADDICTED to drugs?
Let’s remember, Narconon doesn’t deal with the casual pot smoker who comes into Scientology in college. That guy gets told “stop smoking pot” and so he does. He wants auditing and does the Purif and drug handlings.
But Narconon is supposed to be handling far worse situations of people who are actually heavily chemical addicted. So right there is a MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR refusal to deliver — a denial of auditing an a denial of service to the public and a betrayal of the purpose and mission of Narconon.
I used to have a friend, Gianni Rugerri. Gianni (brother of Paolo who is an Indie) used to be the Senior C/S of Narconon Italy. I could be wrong, but as I recall before DM got involved, Gianni used to audit people to handle their drug addictions — with tremendous success. Nobody cared it was Scientology because it worked. Hello? Why didn’t brilliant genius Miscavige think of that?
I remember sitting in Marketing when I heard DM had refused to allow drug rundown auditing in the Narconon program.
The KING of WRONG WHYs excluded Narconon from the program — directly violating what LRH said to do — so as not to mix Scientology and Narconon. Well, for heaven’s sake, it already is mixed. They are delivering Scientology services. TRs are Scientology. The problem isn’t that they deliver Scientology, it’s they don’t actually deliver the full handling and so set people up to fail despite their paying $30,000 for help. They paid for help. They get: betrayal.
But if Narconon admitted it used Scientology, then lots of people wouldn’t want it. Sure, because Damnasshole Miscavige has made Scientology so toxic through out tech, endless acts of aggression, documented abuse, and lastly, death, that people stay away in droves. So he also created that problem.
So anyway you slice it, every single aspect of this Narconon problem traces back to the most remarkably toxic turd to ever plop into the human punchbowl: David Miscavige.
The only wonder is that it has taken this long for people to wake up and realize there’s a wolf in the henhouse.
Nancy, what made this stick in MY craw is the assumption that his prayers carry any sway at all with the “powers-that-be.” And I especially doubt that he has prayed in decades! LOL, but not funny, really.
Oh, and I just got the wry humor in your last sentence!
Narconon is a “humanitarian” program in the Able sector of Scientology which has two purposes, as far as I can see:
1) Use mommy and daddy’s money to indoctrinate young people into Scientology ($30,000 a pop?)
2) Use falsified successes and falsified statistics and falsified recidivism numbers to convince governments and insurance companies to pay for the expensive indoctrination of young people into Scientology.
The use of falsified results is just another DM-approved methodology done in desperation.
The further falsification that “Narconon is not religious in nature” is DM trying to deny the pablum he’s feeding the rest of the world.
Did you watch the show?
Narconon Quebec was closed for non-compliance with healthcare law changes.
In the last year, at an Int Event, Miscavige claimed that Narconon centers were on the main drug trafficking routes of the planet.
Really? Where’s the one on the Ciudad Juarez route? Or the Nogales route? Where’s one in Arizona AT ALL?
No, there was one in Quebec, on the notorious bulk drug trafficking route from Thunder Bay to Detroit. (sarcasm)
But there are the five Narconons in Afghanistan. (more sarcasm)
Look, don’t listen.
First and Foremost – “My sincere condolences to the grieving family members and friends.” I think the most recent IMPACT magazine (IAS), says it all about the “Uplines” being directed from little DM. Forty-eight of the 104 pages, are focussed on Narconon PR. The panic writing was on the wall when they released the magazine. There is no mention of any Narconon in Canada NN in Canada was shut down), or Melbourne and the feature pages were all about the Flagship, Narconon Arrowhead. IMO, the Dead Agent attacks will turn and bite the “Uplines” hard. OSA tried to do their Homework AFTER the fact – – Exams were over.
Forgot to sign my Intelligenceplus name as: David Love
I totally concur. There is a YT video from Feb this year which features Sigal Adini and her actions on education of kids before having to handle drug addiction. The callous statements on her email seems to not be in character with the being she portrays on the video. It is apparent that she is being duped to send these offensive cover up email by her statement of: “We got instructions from up the line” – pointing to OSA/David Miscavige, throwing her under the bus as well.
Narconon grads HAVE to make these glowing reviews to leave, so I’m really skeptical if this person was being genuine. If they were, then they obviously are totally uninformed as to the damage they were doing to their bodies. I’d be totally interested in a study looking at liver and kidney biopsies of these patients before and after the program.
This is NCBI PMC, the world’s premiere database for free medical, biological, biochemical and psychiatric research literature.
Please, find me ANY article that supports claims that drugs are stored in fat cells, or that massive niacin doses assist in drug detoxification or are safe and so on.
That sounds nice but….lie upon lie with “our” prayers……
Lemme see, when was I last on my knees in common prayer with my team mates?
I agree. No responsibility, just divert the attention to how this is really an attack by the evil cabal trying to destroy all of Scientology. The public responds to KRC and none is being shown by this communication.
Indeed sad to see such potential lost. How hard would it be, given just existing facilities, to set up on site (certified) medically supervised withdrawals? Even a basic education on addiction, nutrition, a follow up support line, etc. “Something” surely prevents such basics.
The sad fact is they’re so drunk on the koolaid they don’t believe for a second they do have a callous disregard for life. Quite the opposite they probably view it as their imperative to defend through attacking what they see as LRH tech.
They cannot consider the weakness of their position with respect to the 4 deaths in 3 years because to do so would force them to justify them, aka defend not attack.
Hmm. Well, Anna from Rock Center just got a call from me, also Tone 40 – with her office more than interested to hear about this letter, to which I pointed them to. Foot, meet bullet. Again.
The Purif is and always has been designated as a “biophysical handling”, not a spiritual handling or even a mental handling. There is nothing “religious” about it. Except that it needs to be done and supervised “religiously”, meaning with strict attention to it’s protocols, for the safety of the person doing it.
The remarks I’m reading about “megadoses of niacin” are also misleading, because the niacin is increased gradually over the course of the rundown. And in fact, I believe the highest dose is no more than some Doctors have prescribed for some of their cardiovascular patients to help clear their arteries of plaque. That’s 5,000 milligrams daily over a prolonged period of time. On the Purif, I took 5,000 milligrams only once or twice, right at the end of my program.
Personally, I believe any liver damage supposedly caused by niacin, may actually be caused by an out-gradient release of toxins caused by excessive initial doses of niacin. But this is my own speculation; it would be a good area for research studies. As another poster noted, the release of toxins trapped in fat cells could be measureable by today’s lab tech. It would involve collecting sweat and urine samples, and possibly blood samples also, frequently during the procedure and studying those for released residues. It would be a lot of work and expense. Perhaps someday, when the world’s priorities are something other than weapons development, these kind of studies will be done.
I personally got a lot out of doing the Purif when it was first released.
There are many, many more deaths throughout the past 10-15 years. I know this for a F-A-C-T.
This post is cited and linked on the Facebook Group: Scientology Invasion of the Black Community:
Clearly this is another case of RCS vs the tech, squirrel or lack thereof. As demonstrated with the disdain for humanity, “the same old crap” is another demonstration of the RCS party line of not accepting responsibility for anything.
So I’m not very clear on the tech of Narconon. As a trained auditor and OT I am well aware how the tech can and does work with regard to drugs. I just don’t know what exact application with respect to Narconon. I believe I’ve heard that TRs & Objectives are part of it.
So withstanding what I don’t know, there are some data points which I can make:
1 – As a health care professional I am required to have an AED (defibrillator) in my office AND be trained (retrained every 2 years) in CPR. Further, everytime I give an injection I am acutely aware that an emergency can occur at anytime.
How does a Narconon operate without any of the above? I wonder what the licensing requirements are in each state?
2 – Is LRH policy applied at Narconons? Should it?
HCO PL 12 JUNE 1969, DIANETIC REGISTRATION, “A sign should be prominently displayed in all orgs servicing the general public as follows:
‘If you have come here to be cured of a physical illness, SEE THE REGISTRAR and so inform her so that she can arrange for a competent medical examination and treatment and for Dianetic auditing while under the care of a doctor. When you are physically well, you can begin Scientology training and processing on your road to total freedom.”
“competent medical examination” – is that done? I know it’s asked before doing a purif.
My own personal experience when doing a purif at a local org was NOT a competent medical exam. I don’t consider a chiro or podiatrist competent to do a medical physical exam. Further, I would not consider my own health professional field competent to do a medical exam, yet I have been asked and refused.
3. Drug abuse/addiction does involve physical medical considerations. AND responsibly requires competent medical care.
In absolutely no defense to Narconon, some drug abusers are going to die. Obviously their mortality rate is higher than non users.
4. As someone noted, there’s no data for comparison. I searched today, and it is sparse to find data. But I found a story of a facility in Tennessee with 2 deaths. However, what is markedly different is this facility at least had some medical personnel and resorted to emergency medical care. See here: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110821/NEWS/110170007/Details-rehab-deaths-New-Life-Lodge-emerge?nclick_check=1
Again, RCS is demonstrating it’s total irresponsibility.
They have been measured (and not just through sweat, which is a minimal pathway for elimination). This website has some decent scientific research that has been done on the purif/sweat-out program:
Staff ” working 12-16 hours days”.
That is insane.
As it is insane in scientology orgs.
People need a life and need to devote some time for themselves and to their family to be happy.
Very good points, HereNow.
The point that jumped out at me when I first heard about this is your point #4.
“4) The COS PR response which literally does not even acknowledge that any deaths occurred and instead reads like an ad for Narconon.”
A 100% Not-Is response by the “church”, who gleefully whistles in the wind as if nothing bad and wrong happened. It is quite telling to me of the numbed state of the Church of Scientology, and its total lack of compassion and confront.
The Church of Scientology is completely unrecognizable as a practitioner of Scientology, and rotten to the core. (Of course, nothing new to most folks here.) Clearly, the contagion of their aberration has spread and infected Narconon. Now Narconon has pulled in 5 independent government agency investigations upon themselves.
Once again, we see David Miscavige’s ‘divine’, ‘infallible’ leadership at work infecting the secular world and poisoning the well for Scientology.
“If drugs are stored in fat cells and are sweated out shouldn’t one be able to measure the drugs that are gotten ride of?”
Good question, Kevin. I consider that a very reasonable and rational question. Medicine can practically measure anything physical now. So why can’t poisons in the body being released be measured? Why shouldn’t they be? Why shouldn’t this be precisely monitored?
I did hear +-10 years ago of a research program being done by a medical doctor in Pretoria using the Purif on workers in the mines. These workers are exposed to large amounts of chemicals and the research was to do what you mention – collect sweat samples and measure the chemical levels.
I only heard about this program, never myself say any dox on it. Perhaps something was published? Anyone know?
Well said Mike!
Did anyone hear what I heard on the NBC show ?
That Narconon staff gave drugs to the public in exchange for sexual favors ?
Too bad Brian wasn’t coached enough to ask these questions
++++How much of Narconon’s revenues are sent to ABLE and how much of it goes to Church f Scientology International ?
+++++Where exactly does the money go ~~ all these $30,000 a pop cycles ?.
19 Narconons in the US alone ?
Unfortunately, the problem-situation is international, not only Wall Street:
Thanks Steve. The problem with Miscavige is that he doesn’t care about people addicted to drugs. His sole motivation for getting involved in any way with Narconon was to increase his own public relations: PERIOD. And so, like everything he touches, ultimately death ensued. END OF STORY.
Doesn’t look very credible to me
Not to make light of a terrible situation, but I must say that I really can’t help but giggle at Adini’s instructions at the end; “talk to someone in her office or talk to her personally. Don’t use Scientology lingo.”
Can you imagine some poor confused receptionist at NBC trying to make heads or tails of an angry phone call full of Scientology lingo?
Caller : “You’re all just a bunch of wogs and SP’s and you’re all 1.1 on the tone scale and you’re messing with my dynamics and you all have overts and withholds and you have no ARC and yadda yadda yadda!”
Receptionist : *thinking* “What on earth is this person trying to say? Is that even English? Oh well.” *click*
Just wondering, Glenn,
Alcoholics, and user of certain drugs, already have damaged livers, sometimes severely damaged.
How are mega-doses of Niacin going to help them?
David Miscavige can’t go A to B on doing himself in. He has to use dead druggies as a via.
I think it said Narconon female clients as I recall. Not staff.
+10 Bingo, Steve! Objectives and DRD are pretty big omitteds!
I know David Miscavige micro-manages everything so I have to concede he may have dictated the email or heavily influenced the content. If however she was either simply told or simply decided to rally the troops then she devised the wording of the email herself.
If she did devise it herself she could have worded it a lot better and still get the message across with the same or better effect. “Same old crap” is crass in the extreme.
If she authored the dismissive missives in the email I suggest they show her true colors more so than a rehearsed and scripted video.
My take is the email reflects the prevailing attitudes of disdain and dismissiveness towards all sources of criticism fostered within scientology inc.
Repeat after me: Criticisms of the organisation are lies spread by suppressive sub-human criminals. We are superior. We are never wrong. They are suppressive. We must shatter all forms of suppression to prevail against those who want to keep humanity from its only hope, us. Kill. Kill them all. Okay so it hasn’t quite got as far as that last bit., but just listening to the Tom Cruise rhetoric, Tom Cruise on Tom Cruise scientologist and the rest is there.
“Sure, because Damnasshole Miscavige has made Scientology so toxic through out tech, endless acts of aggression, documented abuse, and lastly, death, that people stay away in droves. So he also created that problem.”
Lest we forget, there is the uncomfortable truth in earlier church history, before David Miscavige, a history of endless aggression, documented abuse, cover up, lies, silencing, deceit, bribery, forgery, framing, theft and blackmail. Thugs in our church were involved even then.
For example, the threat below was what was allegedly written by Paulette Cooper in a church-forged document using her letterhead, attempting to frame her into silence in her promotion of her book, “The Scandal of Scientology” with a potential (false) conviction of 15 years in prison. David Miscavige was not leading this evil then.
The church then framed her with these words on her letterhead:
“James. This is the last time I’m warning you. I don’t know why I’m doing this, but you’re all out to get me. I’ll give you one week before Scientology is an exploding volcano. I’ll knock you out if my friends won’t.”
The church got Cooper maliciously indicted on May 9th, 1973. She tells her story of this here:
Here’s a few TV news story clips about this. At least the church leaders then, unlike today, had more confront, and confessed to wrong doing and showed remorse, such as;
“I think that part of we the Guardians Office fell into the arrogance of “the end justifies the means”, which is wrong and alien to Scientology.”
Though the abuse continued on under David Miscavige’s new leadership. No confession of wrongdoing or any showing of remorse for the abuse BY the current “church” leadership is ever shown today. All their abuse is not-ised.
I think the saddest part about the Isaac Hayes episode was that the church of scientology told him he must quit the show because of the send up episode Tom Cruise in the Closet.
The move didn’t affect the show one iota but it surely affected Isaac as it cut off a valuable source of income. All that simply because scientology inc can’t suck it up like other religions (except Islam) do.
POB, David Miscabige, is devoid of empathy for other fellow human beings. He is a sociopath and thus ultimately defined as a dramatizing psychotic and sociopathic personality.
He’s such a wack-job I sincerely hope that the Hemet situation doesn’t end up like Jim Jone’s Jonestown.
The mainstream media focus is now zeroed in on this little creep as a criminal perp.
Hopefully the public servants we pay for will arrest DM and intercede the tragic inevitable outcome.
To: “Starman8” > The NN Program functions pretty the same as any ORG, with few differences. I was a student and a Course Room Supervisor, Registrar, Graduate Officer, and I/C of forming and registering a new Charitable Foundation. A built and operated a Rehab in the past and dealing with Revenue Canada was do big deal for me to register a Charity. The first day a student arrives in WD, they begin TR’s, Light Objects, as well as receiving Touch and Nerve Assists. Then moves onto longer TR’s, Objectives Auditing, Barriers to Learning (Mass-Gradient-MU’s), then goes throught the 8 Dynamics, Overts/Withholds, Ethics – Social – Ant-Social personality, and on and on until Grad. Then the student is encouraged to take the FSM Course and jump on the money wheel, etc, etc. >>>>
“How does the $$$ get into the COS from NN?” >>> Because I only have evidence dox on NN Trois-Rivieres and not much on other NN’s, except statements, I’ll stick to NN TR.>>> The NN TR ED was demoted to CS and Narconon Canada (entity for expansion in Canada), was brought in and one of the Ed’s was Posted as the ESTO Officer. There were 4 staff from NN Ca at NN TR – AND they also brought in the Director from ABLE Canada, as well as two flying in from NN Int on a “Correction Mission.” ALL of these staff were at NN TR at the SAME time. NN TR had mega bucks in their Building Fund, but all these Pompus Staff were paid tidy sums (HUGE!). Some of this income was banked with the COS for future Auditing, which I can eye-witness confirm when we travelled from TR to another city where the Auditing was being done.
Then, as the $$$ were drained, the NN TR staff, including myself, were NOT paid and some staff quit, including the cook. Not a big deal, it seemed, there was a large pool of students to draw from for labour (without pay) – – they had paid $23,000 and were doing the work of paid staff.
If the COS (DM), wanted to run a rehab that was not dangerous to patients, with qualified medical staff, it could be done. There is no need for these desperate souls to be placed in danger. IMO, why don’t they just run it ALL “Above-Board” and say the program is based on Scientology practices? Then the patient is informed and consented to this treatment and practice. Even though I don’t agree that it is a good treatment for addicts, at least give them the choice and freedom to chose? BUT, do it with professional medical staff, with University Degrees in detoxification, not with new graduate students!
Thank you Sinar for finding this and posting it. I disagree with Dean Fox’s assessment of Sigal.
I knew Sigal quite well when she was a teen-ager. She worked for me for years and was a very sweet hard working girl WHO didn’t particularly AT THE TIME like auditing and worried about being NCG because she didn’t have wins.
Tragedy hit this family when her younger and only sister was killed in a car wreck while driving the back roads of Arizona — she was in the front seat as the middle unseat belted passenger. Her body acting like a shield for the passenger as she slammed into the windshield.
Her father immediately flew to Arizona and Sigal and her mother remained behind while her mother, at the time low on the bridge rallied all her friends to get OT VIII or at least OV VIIs (can’t remember if VIII was out yet) to postulate and heal her body.
Sigal and her mother finally flew to Arizona about 5 days after the accident but her sister died while they were enroute.
Sigal started working for her father at some point, after we left the LA area. How she got involved with Narconon I don’t know but she’s a kind girl and her comment about “same old crap” is what has been said for AGES — that the media and disaffected are spreading old news. It’s how staff are trained to think — “same old crap” “cur dogs snapping at firetrucks”
It was grossly worded for sure but I’ll bet we could scratch the surface of just about ANY kool-aid drinker and find a real living suffering human being who has been utterly duped by Corp Scn … and those who know but are unable to break away are even sadder cases.
She’s over her head fending off the suppression of dm. Way way over her head.
I’ve been reading articles all week, saw all the trailers for the show, and waited patiently through all the other stories in hopes that the loss my family suffered and finally found the strength to talk about may actually help keep this from happening to another family.
I sat there stunned, confused, and heartbroken last night, not because the info being shared was a surprise to me, but because any acknowledgement of the “4th death” was completely gone from the story! Not just cut short or lacking info, but never even acknowledged in the show that there was a fourth loss at this place! I have spent the day searching…trying to find a reason why. The show acted as if the entire story was that there were 3 deaths in 9 months.
Then I finally find this letter. It makes me sick! Don’t know what happened to the fourth! BS. If what happened to the “fourth” wasn’t known or important, why oh why did her very existence disappear from the story at the last minute?! I’ll be honest here. Until this week I had no idea that this was based on Scientology. I really didn’t care. But what I have learned has been utterly shocking and has opened wounds in my heart, and brought newfound guilt to my life that I will have to learn to carry. Yes, even a person close to a situation can have doubts as to what happend. My eyes However, have been pried wide open, and I will never again have any doubts about what has caused my family to have to live with the pain they bare. Shame on these people for trying to make these beautiful lives that were lost irrellivent, and all I the name of money! And if NBC caved to these kinds of tactics…shame on them too!
At least in me, these lives will never be forgotten…
The Narconons send 10% of their income to Narconon Int. Oh, there is a big book purchase, David gets most of that too. The work books. The E.D. of A.B.L.E. manages Narconon International (Between1 and 3 people at any given time, Narconon International is smaller than my family) The E.D. Narconon International’s stat is INCOME. It is the E.D. Narconon Int’s hat to go back down into the Narconons after they have sent their 10% and take whatever they were holding back for themselves and get it back to A.B.L.E. All of the donations A.B.L.E. manages to get for “Narconon” never see the inside of any Narconon and are steered completely away from the Narconons. On Thursday at 2:00 the E.D. Narconon Int sends all of the money she squeezed out of the Narconons up to A.B.L.E Int and A.B.L.E. combines that with the money people donated to help the people on drugs and it all gets handed over to David Miscavige controlled bank account. Yes, David Miscavige steals the money donated to the drug addicts from the drug addicts. The Narconon Staff live on air. David Miscavige lives like a rock star. Students are dying because Miscavige is out of favor with the Gods. They are cursing him and casting spells about him. They wanted this conversation to happen. Tom Cruise stated, “I’ve gotten thousands of people off drugs’. You can bet he got hit for a dono. A dono that never helped anyone in any Narconon. Sure, Kirstie Alley and Lisa Marie were Narconon grads and celebrities that went straight from Narconon to Celebrity Center. But you have to ask yourself this, have you ever met a person in an Org or in Scientology (excluding Italy where they put the person on lines because they CARE) that came from Narconon?
L.A. is full of druggies looking for help. The Orgs could be packed. but gee. A.B.L.E. closed down Narconon L.A.. Not enough public or what Dave? O.K. so all of these thousands of people they get off drugs and through the program every year for 25 years let’s see…. the Orgs should be booming just off those Narconon starts! They do not go on to go clear.
Nobody wants them in the Orgs. L.A. Day is right next to ASHO and the AO! It is a P.R. and Donation vehicle under David Miscavige’s culture. David Miscavige is the most dependent person I know. He depends on the public to give money to his beggars so he can have. He depends on the Sea Org staff to do all the work so he can be. He depends on his attorneys so he can do. He depends on the Drug addicts for P.R. and he thinks they are out P.R.. He keeps it that simple while making everyone believe it is some kind “magic” only he possess’ and it is very very complicated. If I had all that cash and people throwing it at me all week, thousands of staff doing the work and an attorney as a full time nanny, I would at least make something go right. I could have at least kept Narconon L.A, open. He couldn’t keep a building open in South Central for people to sober up. And THEY were paying their rent!
I heard that female patients “paid” for drugs to male staff with sex.
mrinder | August 17, 2012 at 8:38 am | Reply
“Terril — this is the wrong outpoint. It’s not the money flow, as any money flow to ABLE Int and NN Int is minimal in the overall scheme of things.”
Seems clear there are many outpoints. I consider the lack of correct medical care the main one. I’m not able to observe money flows re narconon, however there is insufficient funding for medical care and the staff work for free or very little and I gather the clients pay quite a lot. There was a narconon facility on an indian reservation kicked off as it didn’t pay rent.
What happens to the money and how much goes uplines?
I cannot wait to learn about it.
There’s been some scientific research of the purif. You can see some of the studies here:
Originally it did work. The people that created it, did it after it worked for them. However, since then dm has stripped it of everything that works.
OK Mike B,
Got it…..you are anti-Scientology. For some reason you don’t like it and you have that right.
But, in your enthusiasm to disparage everything connected with the subject, you are not fact checking yourself. Um yes, drugs ARE stored in the fatty tissues of the body, as are other toxins and other substances. They can also be removed by sweating through the skin (which is part of our excretory system) You can look this up on line. These substances are also stored in the liver as you pointed out. That is probably just one reason why LRH REQUIRED that everyone get a medical exam prior to beginning the purification rundown, that people in certain medical situations are not allowed to do the Purif, and others, while allowed, can only do so if under daily medical supervision.
As for your comment about using TRs during the withdrawal process, it works. You should talk to some actual people who have actually done the program before railing against this. Even people who have back-slid will tell you that the TRs were effective in mitigating the physical discomfort of withdrawal.
Comment regarding religion: Just because the Old Testament of the Christians and the Jews advise and even command that one should not steal, doesn’t mean that giving that advice and making rules to that effect should be forbidden in secular circles. The same goes for the use of TRs. There is nothing wrong with using them in a secular setting to enhance Life.
There is nothing wrong with doing anything that enhances Life.
FATTY TISSUE – Lipids and adipose tissue. NIACIN.
You are a big boy. If you REALLY want to know, you can do your own thorough research.
There is a lot of information about body lipids. In fact in health food stores, many supplements and herbs are formulated with lipids in order to have a longer half-life in the body.
Do your own research. You will find that “Yes. Toxins become incorporated with adipose tissue and lipids.” “Body Burden” is an often used term. It would be silly logic (if you know about Biology) to think that toxins resided only in tissues which contained no lipids.
Most people have more than 100 different types of toxic chemicals residing in their system.
Go to EWG.org and search their archives which go back more than a decade.
Here is just one of many studies about body burden. http://www.ewg.org/sites/humantoxome/
Radioactive particles (such as depleted uranium) can play havoc because they reside in or near lipids.
NIACIN – Dr Linus Pauling talks about mega-huge doses of Niacin.
In the Health Food / Vitamin industry, Niacin is a big player for many health concerns.
Pauling is one of only four individuals to have won more than one Nobel Prize. He is one of only two people awarded Nobel Prizes in different fields (the Chemistry and Peace prizes), the other being Marie Curie (the Chemistry and Physics prizes), and the only person awarded two unshared prizes.
Here is a pdf. http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/MMBBKT.pdf
You might actually have to go to the library to look at published scientific articles. The data is there.
Niacin in large amounts is fine if done correctly.
Toxins do reside in adipose tissue and lipids.
I am so sorry for your loss…I am at a loss for words, but am with you in my heart.
I haven’t read the references in years, but I’ve C/S’d hundreds of people through the Purification Rundown and in retrospect it is clear that LRH did not place nearly enough emphasis on the medical supervision aspect of the program – which was also compounded by his repeated condemnation of the medical profession that rubbed off on me and every other Scientologist I’ve ever known.
Although I studied pre-med courses in college, have a degree in biology, was VERY sensitive to the symptoms of heat stroke and heat exhaustion, made sure that EVERYONE had a twin before I allowed them to start the program (talk about flaps), and insisted on periodic blood pressure checks, it was still sheer luck that that no-one ever died on my watch. I feel blessed it never happened. And yes, the above are my attempted justifications for placing people in a potentially deadly situation.
I won’t bother going into the lack of thoroughness of most pre-Purif medical screenings I’ve witnessed over the years (despite the use of the MD information package), but I’m sure you other Purif C/S’s and I/C’s have noted similar situations. I don’t think I need to say any more except that if anyone is running or planning to run a purification center of their own, you really need to understand the strenuousness of the program on the circulatory system and liver, the absolute necessity of a THOROUGH medical evaluation, and vigilant medical supervision. I’m not going to say I’ve never seen results, even miraculous ones, from the program, but the entire modus operandi of how it is administered needs to be changed.
Finally, I’d like to end by giving my public condolences to the family of Dan Kolbenschlag, CPA, who was my accountant until he reportedly died of heart failure after doing a Purification R/D at the Washington, DC org several years ago. He was a good man and it was heartbreaking talking to his daughter when arranging to get my tax records. Peace be with you.
And Mike Hoy, I love you but wake the fuck up, smell the coffee and get out of the Narcanon Network AND the church.
When I entered recovery for my alcoholism and addiction my liver was failing and I was suffering from alcoholic jaundice. Niacin would have killed me.
Likewise many of my friends in rehab suffering from undiagnosed Hepatitis C and good old run-of-the-mill cirrhosis. (It’s common with alcoholism, ya know?)
Luckily, I wasn’t sent to Narconon. Instead, I went to a regular old fashioned alcoholism recovery home where a doctor (MD) supervised my treatment together with nurses (RNs) and Certified Addiction Counselors.
6 months later, at no cost because it was a religious and charitable institution I was released and have since then become a Certified Addiction Counselor myself.
25 years later I am happy to be drug and alcohol free.
p.s. I wouldn’t send a sick house plant to Narconon (No independent studies, No “non-Scientology” proof of effectiveness, and outright lies.)
Agree with you Mike. Narconon and all the campaigns base on “public benefit” is just to cover all the garbage that is happening internally inside the Church of Scientology….the biggest money collection from my view point is coming really from people for service…just one full Bridge in Flag will cost around 120,000 USD that don’t include a full sec checks, 2 a 3 times Clear verifications and if you read internet about the Church or boy you are talking about 300,000 USD just to go “OT VII in this life” just for one person, don’t include hotel and food.
Back to NARCONON just recently NN Taiwan was in trouble here in Taiwan..I don’t here much news recently….so what is next? ABLE?
why? is it all for money?
To understand that you need to do some reading. I suggest you start with Marty’s book. I can then refer you to some additional reading.
I’ll bet the idea of Marty having inside sources drives DM “batshit crazy.” Or I guess more accurately “more batshit crazy” than he already was.
There’s no way you can compare “thou shalt not steal” to making 2 people stare and scream at each other and talk to ashtrays for hours on end. The idea that stealing is wrong is universal, but the TR’s were designed to make prepare people to go up the Bridge; it would be one thing if these patients were told that these were Scientology practices and given an opportunity to do their homework about Scientology and decide on their own if they wanted to partake in it, but they weren’t and that is reprehensible.
I’m guessing you don’t do drugs but let’s say that you have to go to a medical rehab one day. How would you feel if your supervisors told you that eating this bread, drinking this wine and washing your head in this bowl of water would help you with your ailment?
Then you found out after the fact that it was holy bread, holy wine and holy water, and that the facility was run by the Catholic Church and they didn’t tell you that you were doing a “secular” communion and baptism?
The opposite happened; Narconon Vista Bay and ABLE is being sued in California for trying to impose Scientology on a patient.
And so he sits, Mike, in the midst of mountain loads of
O/W’s, surrounded by actual thetans, he has managed
to alter the minds of. Dramatizing, punching, kicking and
choking, the entities he just HAS TO criticize into ‘” it’s all
your fault—-You caused this catastrophy, you F–ks!!!!
All just to appease the mass he carries around and adds
to on a daily basis. Of course, this consequence, of un-
disclosed overts, no matter whatever else is in the cooker,
is what really drives a being into ever deeper and deeper
levels of desperation and degradation. And then, once all
self respect has evaporated, one is finally in the valence
of a criminal, and the internal mental burden can only be
relieved by bringing others “down to one’s level” through
the mechanism of criticism, fault finding & justified punish-
ment….. the very consequence the being can avoid if:-
“….every one else is more guilty than I am!”
Standard Grade 11 auditing, at the direction of a sharpie
C/S, with a real Tiger of an auditor to handle the upstart
twerp while he was still a relative neophyte, just may have
effectively altered the course of Scientology, some 30
years ago. Ron himself, missed it, such was the level of
1.1 deception used, under the guise of “uncompromising
ambition to forward command intention!”
Looks like we missed our chance to deal with him effectively while it was relatively easy, with fewer actual
barriers to do so. A few billion dollars Ponzie’d out of
mind -controlled sheeple and a couple of lawyers and
blackmailed friends in high places, not to mention a huge propaganda machine….in the form of a massive printing
facility and movie production studios, and deliberately
orchestrated slave work-force to do his insane bidding!
Looks like we fucked up way back then….. and now we’re
saddled with a massive “FIX UP” today!
Oh well………takes as long as it takes, I suppose.
The collective “hat” of the Indies today—–QUAL.!
and that includes bringing that non scientologist, one
David Miscavige , to face a litany of charges for criminal acts, unprecedented in the history of religion.
Thanks, Mike, Marty Steve and all you other stalwarts.
You guys are the main reason we have gotten back our
tool-box of Scn. tools from that two-bit bum who stole ’em!
Steve, I posted some comments about that outpoint on “Scientology 101”, on July 31, 2012: A “drug program” without drug handling. In Germany there had been auditing of the Drug Rd up to 1984. It is not only the Drug Rd’s missing. After a period of many years on heroine etc. there can be all kinds of difficulties. There can be underlying body illnesses (that’s why it was mandatory to have close medical attention, back then in the 70’s). There also can be phenomena like out-int, that had been tried to “solve” by taking drugs. There is no way around. If you want to help a case you have to treat it case standardly and not add arbitrary rules of restriction. Youhave to handle what is there to be handled and if you don’t handle that, you have not helped but introduced another arbitrary on the case of that person.
I have seen folders, diplaying clear out-int indicators which were “solved” by applying NN-“Ethics” because that’s what they were allowed to “deliver”. The girl blew and died later -I think – on on over dose.
If you’d translate the PR-statement it would read: “We do not feel responsible. They came to late (were sick already). We didn’t really care for their cases and we feel terribly missed, now. Somebody up the lines is missed, too, and he wants to cover it as well.” That’s about how I would translate the statement.
I really hope that you, your family and all others who’ve lost loved ones to these lunatics will one day see justice done; Scientology deaths can’t end soon enough.
I agree with you Safe. And the fact that there are not others agreeing with you and responding too is evidence that the Independence movement still has growing pains ahead.
When I have brought up pre Miscavige crimes and aggression, I’ve gotten excuses, justifications and personal criticism.
IMO, there is still denial, deep denial.
The lack of response to your post is deafening.
Blaming pre Miscavige crimes on the GO only, is like blaming the CIA and not the USA. The two are the same. Run by one centralized control.
And for power, control of scn, sheeple and others
perceived as useful idiots in building his ponzi empire!
BTW, Mia, nice to see you back again after some absence. Hope things are going better for you.
True empathy for one still in the sticky web, Christine.
lojow, people with failing livers shouldn’t do the Purif. Nobody’s arguing that. Nobody’s arguing that the Narconon program has been and is currently being grossly mismanaged. That’s part of the betrayal I feel. It could have been a good program and instead it has been turned into crap basically because of the greed and venality of one man, David Miscavige. It should have been MD supervised etc as you posted. And another poster has already posted that at least one center in Canada was closely supervised by a dedicated MD. They could all have been, they could all have had trained addiction counselors, nurses etc etc etc. That they did not goes back to, as I said, the greed and venality of one man, the dictator of the Churches of Scientology, David Miscavige,or should I call him Mao-scavige? Who has raped and degraded every potential betterment organization he could get his tentacles into. Now they have to be put down like sick dogs.
Incidentally, I was never in Narconon. I did the Purif when it was first released around 1980 because I had experimented with psychedelics, particularly LSD, in the late 1960s. I read the relevant Bulletin, “Years after they have come off of LSD”, and immediately knew it was for me. I had no cirrhosis, no damaged liver etc. I was however clearly experiencing the long-term effects of LSD. I started with 100 milligrams of niacin and eventually worked up,under daily supervision, to 5,000 milligrams on my last day or perhaps last 2 days, I don’t remember. There is more to the Purif than “megadoses of niacin and 5 hours of sauna.” I know many people who have done it without incident and have felt better afterwards.
But it probably would have been deadly for you, as you say. In your condition, I would want paramedics and an MD in the sauna with me monitoring my physical functions! That’s really not the issue, for some of us here. You were probably lucky you did not go to a Narconon.
The reason it is not all run “aboveboard” and competently is, a greedy and venal psychopath, David Miscavige, is calling the shots.
Cannabis is stored in fat cells. I even found you an article talking about retoxification following fasting:
I would’ve said this earlier, but tbh I prefer to lurk 🙂
David Miscavige does not want to help. Does not want to help a drug addict to become clean. He does not want that. Not really. All he wants is you to believe that he does. He wants you to believe him.
Because the only thing that he believes in is MONEY. He wants your MONEY. That is the only thing he wants. So he has to lie.
And so it is also the only thing his church wants. If you die or get sick or very disappointed or divorced of your husband or estranged from your children – he does not care. Not really.
He is a criminal. And so are the people who still work for/with him. His church is a criminal institution.
David Miscavige has the touch of death. All he cares for is himself. It is alright for him that others die. He does not care.
He is the personification of death. Even the devil would be disgusted, because David has no soul left to tempt.
I am deadly serious.
It is deadly serious.
Thank you. WIll check it out.
Nice rant, but Narconon LA just moved to Newport Beach, it didn’t “close”. It was like Chilocco moving to Arrowhead. Newport Beach then closed and folded into the centers near Temecula and Nevada. Also, in PT, Narconon Int has at least a couple dozen staff, if not more. Not defending them at all, just adding some factual info. I certainly appreciate and agree with the rest.
Narconon does deliver Objectives, but I totally agree that it should just be called what it really is, and deliver what they really want, not pretend to be something they’re not.
I didn’t see any data on that site on the actual measurement of toxins & drugs. It is also quite obviously a front group in support of the Purf which makes it suspect in terms of its’ objectivity. I think the Purf has value but as there apparently has never been anything published on the actual measurement of drugs & toxins released the whole premise of the program is put into question. Based on some of the comments posted here from people with medical backgrounds It would also seem that LRH should have insisted on real medical supervision of those on the program.
So what is your handling Brian? Destroy everything? Unlike you, I have a handling and implemented it in December 2008 the same day I realized what it was. It is working well. The handling has two steps: (1) handle (according to my own thorough data analysis that I spent an entire year working on, and which included infiltrating a local Church so I could see for myself what it was like to be a public Scientologist in 2008 vs. 1984 when I was last a public Scientologist before I joined the Sea Org) the primary source of current suppression in the Church and then (2) reorganize the Church to bring it’s policy and actions back into alignment (for the first time in decades) with the philosophic fundamentals of Scientology as laid down in the early 1950s such as the discovery that ARC (understanding) is THE most important and THE central datum in Scientology around which every other policy and datum must align. The correct beingness for the organization is the beingness of an AUDITOR. No inval, no eval, no evil actions, just be there comfortably and confront, and communicate using good 2 way comm. Without that, the organization will never be a true representation of Scientology, but will instead be something else and therefore fraudulent. How must the organization act? Like an auditor.
I find your comment condescending and unhelpful because you DON’T HAVE any handling. You just have criticism. If you are one of the many who want to destroy it all, then I pity you because you will play no part in the future. That group is as resoundingly wrong as the DM supporters who pretend it is all right.
I’ve put the above in writing I don’t know how many times. Maybe not as succinctly. But no matter how many times I do, like a broken record, people like you continue to nag. Stop nagging. Grow up. We get it.
Hey Mike B, at what point in time did you begin to look
into Scientology? Your period of investigation has a certain relevance in being able to differentiate the
‘genuine article’ from the imposter version. The difference being akin to being sold mining rights
to a spot of land containing rich deposits of valuable
ore containing gold, silver, platinum and other rare
metals, versus being sold a worthless piece of earth
containing nothing but shale, crumbling rock and toxic waste deposits!
Worth evaluating by your own thorough testing and
assessments for potential to give great returns, don’t
One of the highest faculties of logic, and therefore
intelligence (problem solving capability)is the ability
Mike B. While nothing is 100% effective, especially when dealing with Human beings and their addictions, I can attest that narconon was very effective in helping many people. I say “was” as my familiarity with the program was from the 70’s, before “niacin” and “purif’s” and whatever else they have added. The basics of doing the training routines, Objective processes, maybee co-auditing and vitamin supplements helped a lot of people. You may not believe it, but those things do have a positve effect on people.
But like every program and activity that is in any way connected to corporate scientology, it has been mishandled and “used”. And that was always the case. Even in the 70’s, with much less oversight or technical interference, it was still valued mostly as a PR tool.
Scientology culture looked down on druggies. I am sure it still does. Yet many here, I guarantee you, did their fair share of drugs before they took the comm course, and many probably stopped only during it. The folks who initally got into Narconon did so through Prison programs.
On the subject of efficacies, It would be interesting to compareand understand the reasons why a Narconon works and an AA or 12 step program also works. Though both have members or graduates that relapse. They seem to have such different approaches. I suppose the desire for the person to kick their habit is one common denominator for success. And they both attempt to get the person “outside” of themselves and/or separated from the past. I would not call AA bible based, but higher power based. The higher power is left up to the individual to determine. Many find themselves reconnecting with their christian faiths through involvement with AA, but that is a side-product.
One common thread may be the person in the Narconon program becomming aware of himself as a spiritual being and the 12-step person acknowledging the same through very different and less obvious process.
Anyway, I wish Narconon well. Left to its original mission and methods, it was effective.
Those were the exact thoughts I posted a few days earlier
Tom, & the warnings signs are there for all to see.
I understand that Dan Kolbenschlag dropped dead on August 24, 2010, from a sudden and apparently massive heart attack. He was in the midst of helping his daughter prepare for her wedding. It was quite a shock to her, to say the least, and those of us who had worked with him in his capacity as a CPA.
There is no reason, that I know of, to believe that the Purif he had (re-done) at the DC Org had anything to do with it. My beliefs are that other things caused it, but I really don’t know.
Nevertheless, the DC Org is — and has been for some time — decidedly out-tech and delivering squirreled auditing. So, who knows if the DC Org had anything to do with Dan’s untimely death.
And, there are plenty of other such anecdotal happenings: For example, I knew of another fellow, some years ago, David Eisenstark, who died abruptly of massive blod clotting, which started while he was doing the PTS/SP Course at AOLA. How PTS was Mr. Eisenstark? Well, when the doctors at the Hospital first discovered the blod clots, they gave him a synthetic anti-clotting medicine … which, in rare cases was known to actually increase the blod clots. Naturally, the blod clots amplified greatly, and there was nothing they could do by the time they checked him again, and he died. If the doctors had given him the natural anti-coagulant (derived from leeches and VERY expensive, like $300k per treatment) he would have lived. So, David Eisenstark is mid the PTS/SP course at AOLA, or ASHO, I’ve forgotten which, he suffers a stroke due to blod clotting, the doctors give him the wrong (but cheaper medicine), the doctors fail to monitor him, the blod clots ramp up, and he dies … sounds PTS, right?
Now, my point is … maybe both Dan Kolbenschlag and David Eisenstark would have died of ‘natural causes’ just as they did — both of them were very large men, and not especially healthy in general — without any connection to the squirreled technology being buttered around the universe by the so-called “Church of Scientology”. So, I’m not claiming the “Church of Scientology” caused these untimely (in my opinion) deaths. But, if you had a choice between risking an untimely death by accepting the obviousy squirreled technology of the “Church of Scientology” and having great wins and life improving changes through an independent auditor … which would choose?
The “Church of Scientology” is dead, done and gone. Its irrelevancy is palpable and there is no good to come from bothering to try to ‘save’ it, or its adherents. May it, and they, rest in peace.
Very well said. I would change only two words from your comment:
“And so it is also the only thing his church wants. If you die or get sick or very disappointed or divorced of your husband or estranged from your
children – he does not care. Not really.”
Personally, I would remove the “not really” and replace with “PERIOD!!!”
Mike B said: “There’s no way you can compare “thou shalt not steal” to making 2 people stare and scream at each other and talk to ashtrays for hours on end”
That’s funny. Many of the people who come in for marriage counseling here stare at eachother, scream at eachother and stare at physical objects all day long. Although it is usually beer bottles for the guys and shoes for the ladies.
I completely agree with you that anyone coming to a narconon center should be fully informed as to the source of the program’s technology. It is the sleazy way the Co$ tries to hide the fact that is really at the bottom of many of their current troubles.
Your insinuation that the gentleman who wrote the success that I posted above was somehow disingenuous or coerced leads me to believe that you are not actually seeking truth in order to help, but that you are in fact simply a critical jerk.
“… in retrospect it is clear that LRH did not place nearly enough emphasis on the medical supervision aspect of the program – which was also compounded by his repeated condemnation of the medical profession that rubbed off on me and every other Scientologist I’ve ever known.”
You make an important and well-reasoned point, Don.
While LRH stressed the importance of medical screenings for a variety of ills (including psychotic episodes), the pre-screening and oversight of the purif was lax, at best, from my observation. And this is a good example of where his work can be refined and improved; heretical as it may seem to some.
Safe & Brian,
I just wanted to say I appreciate your willingness to look at some of the unpalatable aspects.
From the outside looking in, it does seem that a sizeable group of indies would happily ignore anything pre-DM that seems questionable. That, plus the aggression often proffered to those who do question does make Scientology appear ‘less than’ in comparison to other belief systems.
Of course, the Indies are a community, and in any community you get a sizeable variance in all aspects of faith, but the fact that people like yourselves have enough faith in your religion to question every aspect, not just DM-related stuff, is both a sign of applied critical thinking, as well as your right to comment on the work and opinions of others (a core creed of your religion I believe?) makes me smile.
The Indie movemen won’t end up as a singular cohesive church – its impossible. But knowing that there are Scientologists willing to say “look, this was messed up. I love my religion, but this was wrong” tells me that something good will rise up from all this.
Is there a reliable eyewitness testimony of Heber Jentzsch being in the Hole? Someone I could quote with confidence?
Me or Jon Brousseau. We have talked about this numerous times on the blog and with Tony ortega and other places.
+1. fair and legal justice
You “heard” that from whom, please ?
We’re interested in facts here, not rumor-mongering.
Michael A. Hobson
It’s weird, the revelation that DM had a hand in LM’s death (I had no clue about that until reading this Blog) makes me wonder… if there’s a dead body (or in this case 4 bodies) do you have a high probability of finding a string that will lead back to Miscavige? Gives a whole new light to the concept of how bad it is to be connected to an SP. Even if the SP is only forcing policy upon the group you’re connected to (in this case Narconon.) I look forward to you shinning the “Mary Flashlight” upon these events.
Mike: Heard it on the Rock Center program. That’s where I heard it too. I was commenting on K#1 thinking it was staff who were exchanging sex for drugs.
There’s a radio interview (I think on Glossip) with a blown Narconon exec. He reveals that the stats from Narconon are grossly false reported. The success rate is more like 40%, not the 70% Narconon claims. Yet another lie from RCS…
Narconon LA , would be in L.A.. I am aware a place opened in Newport Beach. This is a slight of hand with P.R.. Like the Mission the Slauters just bought “moved to that place on the corner”. Chilloco folded. I am aware a center opened in Arrowhead. Maybe next week Narconon L.A. will move to Manhattan! Three card Monty! You have been fooled twice.
Thoughtful, my view is to deny nothing, look at everything, discard those things that don’t support spiritual advancement and develop those things that lead to happy healthy pcs.
All I am saying is, it is ok to look: at everything.
Thoughtful, isn’t it wonderful that we can communicate and see things differently. How refreshing!
I support you on your journey.
My handle Thoughtful is to first and foremost to see before me what is. I believe procedures and handlings will be more efficient and successful when those procedures stem from seeing things as they are.
That is my view. And I appreciate you don’t see it that way.
Thanks, Valkov. I know nothing of what NN was when it began. Only what it is today. Toxic and poisonous. (and expensive)
Add to the discussion NN’s swat team interventionists:
Got an addict who’s refusing treatment?
For an extra (hefty) price the church provides it’s own “interventionists” who will get your addict to Narconon.
And, who cares if it’s against their will?
You think only execs end up in the hole?
Wait until those stories start coming out.
Thank you Kwyjibo, I agree.
To me, the only sacred cow I cannot dismantle is my own integrity to what my experience has brought me to understand. As long as I am honest with myself and always be aware of my motive.
I give that to no person, no church, no dogma: nobody, nada
If what I say causes reaction, I say good.
If there is something in me that anyone needs to take issue with: great!
I’m always looking to better myself from constructive critisicm of others.
Have at it peanut gallery! I apply that same scurtiny to myself!
Thanks, Newcomer. ‘PERIOD!!!’ it will be.
Also Thougtful, I have helped an OT VII friend of mine find an auditor after he has not been onnline for years.
Destruction is not one of my motives.
Just thought I’d let you know.
The allegation of drugs from staff for sexual favors was made by the mother of the man who died at Narconon. She also hesitantly clarified that it was men using female clients this way.
We all know of course that “homosexual acts” would never, never occur!
Pardon me now while I get hot and sweaty in my sauna…
I have had a long friendship with a lot of the Chilocco guys in that there are, a lot of them. previous NNLA crew; Gary included.
These were all VERY happy grads of Narconon and very sincere in their desire to help other users with the program.
I can only imagine that Gary has very much wanted to have medical supervision there and that someone has made it impossible to have that. So, he has opted to stay at the helm and continue to deliver anyway.
I have no idea how often enrollees die in other programs as compared to Narconon.
I was fully rehabilitated from years of drug usage with Dianetics and Scientology prior to the Purif. I’ve done the Purif a few times; but I don’t feel that it’s a real “breakthrough” of Ron’s; it seems that it was a bright enough idea; but it was really created with very little science behind it… all the efforts to validate it scientifically have been since its release and all this was created by Scientology (FASE).
Yet it seems to be promoted as this hard science breakthrough. It just isn’t.
Typically, within the church, people get great gains from it, and that’s understandable; a body in at least fair health will put up with all that and manage and even benefit.
But I know that most current druggies are, just as Ron said, often quite ill. I would imagine that these would need constant medical side checking.
But, I just wanted to stand up for and acknowledge the power and validity of the Scientology Drug Rundown and the Objectives. It really is wonderful stuff, and has helped many.
Tony Bylsma and Clark Carr are two of these. They have been, and are wonderful people. I hope they find their integrity soon and put what they know to be right for the program in place.
New article on Village Voice on NN: ” Former President of Narconon Oklahoma Now Calls It “Watered-Down Version of Introductory Scientology”
Brian, I totally understand your frustration. I have delt with many non-confronting Scientologists who “Not Is” (including myself!). Of course, auditing is all about getting away from this apparent Thetan habit.
IMO, the first step to a true permanent handling is to confront the time track (history) of Scientology. Interestingly, to me, confronting the time track of Christianity to see the many parallels of non-confronting Christians has helped me raise my confront of the full history of Scientology.
Marty, is an amazing group auditor here (who is doing an amazing job of keeping his TR’s in). I consider we’re all in session here getting audited on heavy 3rd dynamic engrams. When I read the following quote in Marty’s book, I knew he was fully confronting, and keeping his personal integrity in knowing full well what he said may not be popular with Scientologists, including independent Scientologists. (Read his book if you haven’t yet)
“to ignore the shift of focus and the reversal-of-motivations tactic employed — even by Hubbard himself — would be to check my logic and personal integrity at the door. Just why Hubbard deviated from a 15-year devotion to creating a path that would only work where the practitioner’s motivations were sole for the pursuit of truth toward the empowerment of each individual addressed, into scare tactics aimed at having each individual surrender his or her self-determinism to the will of the group, is a complex matter.”
At the moment of reading the above, I realized Marty was not trying to be an apologist, and was confronting what is there. His personal integrity and honesty won my heart as a good individual and author. He gained another fan.
Thoughtful’s comment to you may have been a bit harsh, as I personally don’t see anything you said as to cause any seeds of doubt as to your good intention in your comment. However, it might have appeared to be a make-wrong to many others here, inflaming some righteous indignation. I do understand your frustration and where you’re coming from. I believe you want everybody to cognite as soon as possible, and see the whole picture. Yes, we’re all going through growing pains, part of moving on up a little higher.
Thoughtful wrote something highly valuable which I hold precious,
The idea to get “back into alignment (for the first time in decades) with the philosophic fundamentals of Scientology as laid down in the early 1950s such as the discovery that ARC (understanding) is THE most important and THE central datum in Scientology around which every other policy and datum must align. The correct beingness for the organization is the beingness of an AUDITOR. No inval, no eval, no evil actions, just be there comfortably and confront, and communicate using good 2 way comm.”
This is the group I want to see. This is also the individual I wish to see in all Scientologists, inside corporate and outside.
IMO, the first step of handling to get there starts with 100% confront of the entire picture, and not just confronting the most obvious to be “hanged”.
Until each person does, there will be a lot of emotion of frustration expressed here, and things said that hurt. To understand this frustration, and to see most are on the same page of seeking truths is to forgive the hurt caused by this frustration.
I know and respect Sigal. I am pretty sure that she’s not an ex-druggie; she got involved due to her husband, Tony. Tony’s an ex-druggie, who loves Narconon and what it has done for people, who cares about people immensely. They are all indoctrinated into the idea (as we all have been) that, if you are critical of management, you’ve got overts. So, see something wrong and the knee-jerk reaction is, “what have I done?” Then introvert and go back to sleep. People only seem to snap out of it when something much-more-than-usual-over-the-top-ridiculous happens to themselves, personally. That happens and you finally go, “WTF?” for the last time… and go.
Thank you, Kwyjibo. My newest “bible” is the book, The Sacredness of Questioning Everything, by David Dark.
Here’s a commentary on this book,
“According to author David Dark, when religion won’t tolerate questions, objections, or differences of opinion, and when it only brings to the table threats of excommunication, violence, and hellfire, it obstructs our ability to think, empathize, and live lives of authenticity and genuine engagement.”
Ironically, Scientology, a technical practice which RELIES on asking questions and helping others to ask questions to themselves, has turned into what’s described above and inhibits questioning, which in turn inhibits free thought. Inhibiting free thought is the very opposite of what is intended in the practice of Scientology. The original idea of Scientology was Freedom.
I don’t know who (or how) you’ve I.D.’d as Mike Hoy, but if you are here, Mike, glad to see you are reading here and hope you keep your eyes open and stay analytical.
“Ron himself, missed it, such was the level of
1.1 deception used, under the guise of “uncompromising
ambition to forward command intention!””
When did Scientologists go PTS and so blind sided, we didn’t nip David Miscavige in the bud and avoid the drama? When did Ron go PTS?
It appears to me there was a PTS condition BEFORE the rise of David Miscavige’s dictatorship. His dictatorship only exacerbated it.
I hope Marty’s new history book reveals the rise and fall of corporate Scientology, and indicates this PTS condition so something like this can never happen again.
For what it’s worth: Hubbard signed over trademarks for drug handling to Narconon in the late 70’s or early 80’s. Larry Brennanwould have details. It was done for legal reasons but nonethless fof a brief period in time Narconon actually was given ownership of the trademarks until sometime in the 80’s when messengers from CMO went into SoCo and asked for the letter to be given back. No explanations. All copies were taken and destroyed and just like that it was over.
Correction: constructive criticism “from others.”
TheFource, Thank you for your addition to this thread. The loss that you and your family have endured is truly a tragic. To suffer that and then to have the wounds opened only to be salted by the editing out of the story your family’s loss is unimaginable. I know many good people who post on this sight and I know I speak for us all when I say we are so sorry for what you have gone through. Your pain is not lost on us. We wish you better days and a time when you can all have peace on this death.
It is but a hope that Mike is capable of reading this blog. His eyes were of last report unblinking even while his head was stuck in cob’s backside. But we can hope as Don is doing.
Looks like a Senator from Oklahoma is out to get Narconon. Using lies in PR and using lies to get money and using lies to cover miscavige’s crimes and incompetence could very well be the end of Narconon Arrowhead.
Full disclosure and honest correction will be their only saving grace.
August 17, 2012, write up of Lucas Catton, former president of Narconon Arrowhead (Oklahoma):
Code of Honor: “Never need praise, approval or sympathy.”
Co$: “Look at us. See how we’re the only ones who can help. See how noble and virtuous and honest and competent and better-than-you we are.”
And when their lies are exposed…”look at how we are so terribly discriminated against. We need sympathy…lots of sympathy.”
Pathetic really. Especially considering how many really competent people have helped so many in need to overcome addiction.
Shut up and go away dave. You really are a creep.
“drugs are NOT stored fat cells”
I’ve literally sold 1,000’s of herbal body wraps, and I know for a fact these body wraps detoxify fat cells. The toxins are released through sweat and through the lymph system and liver. As a side benefit to the detox is real inch loss, fat cell shrinkage. (These aren’t compression wraps or water loss wraps, either. One drinks plenty of water during the wrap.)
You’ll have a very difficult time ever making me believe fat cells don’t store toxins. Hubbard isn’t the only one who says toxins are stored in fat cells. It’s nothing new. This information has been known by the natural health community for a very, very long time (pre Hubbard). You’d be quickly be ridiculed for saying “”drugs are NOT stored fat cells.
Many other toxins besides just drugs get stored in our fat cells, too. I know from countless experience (on myself and others) this is true.
What part of the following to you agree or disagree? …
“For many in the mainstream medical and scientific community, it is not pharmaceutical drugs (killing approximately 100,000 each year), or pollutants found in our food, air and water that are dangerous. It is not the unstudied synergistic effect of the millions of tons of toxic waste released each year, creating a veritable toxic soup from which we breathe that may be dangerous to human health. Rather it is detoxification itself that poses a threat.
This community of “thinkers,” who largely agree with Bender, believe the body incapable of self-healing (i.e. every symptom must be suppressed rather than expressed). They obviously see that chemicals and pharmaceuticals can be useful in manipulating symptoms; however, they fail to appreciate the merit and influence of eliminating harmful chemicals from the body through detoxification. In short, they want it both ways.”
It appears you’re not too familiar with or disagree with natural methods of healing the body and the prevention of disease. I urge you to take a deeper look.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034726_detoxification_diets_skeptics.html#ixzz23vpNLmg7
I do agree with you on two points:
1) Liver risk. One’s liver should be doctor supervised throughout the program with tests, and appropriate measures taken based on the results of the tests.
2) Testimonials. Success Stories should never be forced or any type of requirement. I would never dream of forcing or manipulating testimonials out of my customers. They should only be voluntary.
Thank you Safe, well said. I have not read Marty’s book yet but I plan to next month.
I agree, Marty is working out third dynamic engrams on this blog. The trauma and broken trust breaks my heart sometimes. He is doing a yeoman’s service.
I play the antagonist for benevolent reasons. Since I’ve been out of Church environemets and thinking limitations since 1987 I feel a sense of duty to convey what I have learned unencumbered by the threat of punishment for thinking the unthinkable thought.
I’ve developed a taste for free thinking. There is no turning back.
This may sound mawkish but I feel a close kinship with you all. We belong to the same generation of truth seekers. You are a part of my famility of souls.
Oops – meant to say “Marty Flashlight”
“LRH did not place nearly enough emphasis on the medical supervision aspect of the program – which was also compounded by his repeated condemnation of the medical profession that rubbed off on me and every other Scientologist I’ve ever known.”
True words spoken.
In decades of experience I heard of no deaths by purif in any orgs. That doesn’t mean there weren’t but I haven’t learned of any since working on my doctorate on “Scientology: The After-Math” (so-to-speak and referring to the time period since I was able to separate ME out from me+Scientology. It IS surprising to me that this is the case considering how many exams to do the Purif are done by chiros etc who are onlines in an org and feel elevated to some higher level of importance it seems to be asked to do these medical exams.
Do thorough interviews and use MDs to do the exams. The results of the program are undeniably to me.
Various rehab program success stats are somewhat available online. I say somewhat because they are always “qualified” (fudged) in one way or another. Here is an article that touches on the issue:
Also, note the cost of some of the programs mentioned!
+1 Ditto. My feelings likewise. 🙂
I see. So what we have is a highly dubious allegation made by someone who wasn’t in a position to know whether it was a true fact or not. There is more than enough true and factual wrongdoing involved for these people to have died, without people just making up false facts.
Michael A. Hobson
On further thought, I found 2 areas that Narconon or Scn and 12 step programs have in common; one is hitting bottom or looking to correct a ruin which you were unable to handle yourself, and two is comming clean and making amends with an O/W write up and follow up.
There DOES exist a Third Dynamic Engram in Scientology, seemingly having grown in size and greater devastating effect for some 30 odd years, interestingly enough. And that engram, quite subtle and hard to detect at first, is now a 3D service facsimile of gargantuan proportion and quite easily observable unless you are a clubbed hard side of the head seal, and no longer recognize much of anything, awaiting the final blow. Pain and unconsciousness is now your reality.
Perhaps we shouldn’t fall into the same trappings. Just saying.
My heart bleeds for you and your family Thefource. I have no other words. Hugs to all of you.
As a relatively sane person I’m sickened by the attitude emulated by that email by Sigal. The ‘matter of fact’ of here we go again being attacked because of who we are is about the worst kind of justification I could imagine. Death is abhorent under organisational care and the causes need to be investigated in a manner which actually reflects a duty of care that such things do not occur again. Dragging in the 3rd & 4th Dynamic to give succor to the mismangement of such a facility is akin to spreading the cancer of death by negligence.
Scientology Inc has defintely gone Type 3! ie The bad guys are everywhere trying to get them and are in every shadow. The sooner the negligent mismangement of $cn is investigated and brought to justice the better. What sort of shock is enough to get their attention? Is death now becoming – the same old crap!
Very accrate statement. Further regarding D.M.
I’m certain its the tip of the ice burg.
Rex Fowler et al can give more detailed account.
Thats Berg folks
I’ve gone through a few of those articles; a lot of those articles seem to be ancient, or exist nowhere online except on that website. Some didn’t seem to have controls; improvements may have been the result of the body’s normal bioelimination systems or the placebo effect rather than Hubbard’s alleged detox regimen. I’ll look and comment on more of those articles later, but I was hoping for more recent studies in prestigious journals; Journal of Biochemistry, Journal of Cell Physiology, New England Journal of Medicine, things like that.
I never said he was coerced; I said he was uninformed and unaware about how he was putting his body and health at risk while undergoing the program, which is why I said I’d be really interested in liver and kidney screenings of patients before and after the program.
Another day, another scandal. Just a day in the life of a sawed-off sociopath the world has come to hate. His flow is now the backwash. Is anyone surprised?
Miscavige sucks and it DOES suck to be POB.
Note to dm: Karma’s a real bitch, isn’t it dave.
Though you haven’t experienced ‘present time’ in eons, couldn’t you at least try? OOPS! I forgot…
You’re incapable of social relations.
I never said that TOXINS are not stored in fat cells; I’m a graduate biochemistry and molecular biology student. My focus is microbiology, but I’ve had enough education in human anatomy and biochemistry to know that toxins can be stored in fat cells.
What I’m opposed to is that Narconon claims that DRUGS (active, psychoactive compounds) are stored in the fat cells; maybe their metabolites, breakdown products, are I’ve seen nothing to support that active drugs are.
If that were true, it would still not justify the danger of daily 5 hour sauna sessions, massive niacin dosing or taking away people’s legally prescribed meds against their will, or of not informing patients of the risks or dangers of such a regimen.
Hey Guys, Sorry for the frustration. I don’t speak for everyone, but my own view from the start was always that we have to handle both aspects — get rid of Miscavige and then bring whatever is left of the Church into alignment with the original philosophic ideals of the subject. To me any organization that purports to represent Scientology either has to live those ideas, or else it’s not Scientology. A “Scientology” church that uses fascist policies is not Scientology, but fascism. If the Church of Scientology doesn’t act like an auditor, it isn’t Scientology.
There are organizations that get this right. I’m no expert, but it seems like Buddhism seems to get it. They don’t have a crazy-ass dual standard, but use their own philosophy. I have often told the media, “the problem is the Church doesn’t use it’s own philosophy.”
Where I get frustrated is just this: until we depose DM and get him out of the picture, nothing further can be done. So when people come in and say, “Yeah, but a lot of what the CoS did before DM was also crap!” Hey, I agree. But there’s just no way to do anything about it since DM is in the way.
I mentioned a data analysis I did throughout all of 2008 which included infiltrating the CoS as a public so I could see for myself what was really going on. It was shocking how off purpose the CoS had become. Someone from the Dallas org whom I’d never met even left me a voicemail to stating it would be great if I could come into the org and donate $5,000 to their Idle Morgue project.
Anyway, in doing a data analysis, I was surprised to see the predominance of outpoints went back to DM, not LRH. Sure LRH had some. He was no perfect being and said so many times. He freely admitted Scientology was not perfect.
In the early 1960s, LRH researched the Goals Problem Masses and found that all people have about 50% good purposes and 50% bad purposes. He didn’t say “everyone but me.” Basically, nothing is perfect and no one is perfect in this universe, it’s just a part of life one has to be able to confront. It’s kind of a duality.
There were many things LRH did that were wrong. Example for anyone who has ever been to the Int base: the “Team Share System” which is nothing but communism. Here’s another example of something I saw early on: now edited out of all the early lectures, but at the start of every lecture series LRH would spend some time welcoming individuals who were the leading lights of Scientology at the time: Wing and Smokey Angel, Herbie Parkhouse, Reg Sharp… and every single one of those people were later branded a squirrel or an “SP.” WTF? How come nearly every single person LRH mentioned as a leading Scientologist wound up in a bad way? That would trace back to LRH.
Hey, I worked with Diana Hubbard for many years. When I first met her, she tried to torpedo me off post because she wanted the scriptwriting post and saw me as a rival. She was a nasty evil bitch! Later we became friends, but I never forgot she could turn nasty. It was shocking that LRH’s own daughter acted like that. I had to ask myself, where did she learn THAT?
Before we became good friends, I also observed what seemed to be her telling tall tales and bragging about track — like bragging about when she was royalty or whatever. It was embarrassing. Apparently she wanted to impress me — reason I say that is because I was later interrogated several times to see if she had ever flirted with me. She stopped talking track after that. But we all know how children pick up the traits of their parents and that was not a good trait to pick up.
But ultimately Scientology is not about tall tales. It is about technology that works according to honest observation.
Me, I don’t give a shit about tall tales. I only care about workable answers. Scientology has them. It also has some total bullshit — like dramatizing evil purposes against enemies. We have to sort that out. But until we get Miscavige out, it’s pointless to even discuss IMO.
Sorry again for being short tempered.
The Tulsa World newspaper reports the following:
“Hillary Holten, a 21-year-old woman from Carrolton, Texas, died April 11 at the facility. Her autopsy report has not yet been completed.
Stacy Murphy, a 20-year-old Owasso woman, died July 19 of a drug overdose, said Robert Murphy, her father.
Other deaths at the facility include those of 28-year-old Kaysie Dianne Werninck, who died in March 2009; 52-year-old Jean Lafitte, who died in January 2009; 53-year-old Fred Oesterreicher, who died in April 2007; and 44-year-old Sharon Charlene Nederlander, who died in February 2005, according to state medical examiner reports. ”
According to them, there were seven deaths at the NN facility. Is this right?
In ’79 while LRH was living in Hemet, I was mid a vitamin regimen as written in the All about Radiation book which called for an increasing dosage of Niacin and was up to 1500mg. It didn’t take very long to get up to 5000 when the Purif came out.
The purification Rd came out and I had to go to LA to see Dr Gene Denk, LRH’s doctor, for a full physical up before getting onto the rundown. I wasn’t an addict but I thought there was, along with daily reports to the CS that any medical situations would have been caught.
Thank you all for your kind words. It truly has been a big week. Quite an emotional roller coaster. I am happy to have come across this group. My hope is that word has started to get out to a much larger audience and the truth continues to come out. I am continuing to try to find out why our story was cut,( though it’s really not hard to guess why) and I pray that my grandparents continue to find the strength they need to keep telling their story and continue healing.
Radar Online – Scientology Followers Told To Protest NBC ‘Rock Center’ Report On Narconon – http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/08/scientology-followers-told-protest-nbc-rock-center-narconon-report
Mike, have a look at http://www.possiblyhelpfuladvice.com and you will see the interview and actually hear what was said yourself. These are not false facts.
I get you Thoughtful. I know what you mean re fix the stuff that’s in the present. I respect that.
I’ve said before somewhere that I doubt from time to time that I should even bring up pre Miscavige stuff given all the present time BS that needs immediate handling.
Thank you Thoughtful, BTW you are thoughtful 🙂
I just wanted to say that the first time I did my purif it worked exactly as stated in the materials. I had a drug history- not a heavy one, but I did feel a tremendous improvement from the Purif and it was clear and observable that I “ran out” stuff. Most people who have done it know that you can actually spot what things are running out and the spiritual or mental connections that come up.
I think the problems at Narconon are due to Sqwuirelling
I mean “Squirrelling”.
I actually wrote a longer post, but it didnt take for some reason.
Wordpress is acting strange for me – very slow and freezes up.
David Miscavige Squirrelling is killing people. Probably many more than just Narconon. It’s probably in the hundreds if it was possible to track.
“Personally, I believe any liver damage supposedly caused by niacin, may actually be caused by an out-gradient release of toxins caused by excessive initial doses of niacin.”
Then that is totally counter-intuitive to the “Drugs are stored in fat cells” hypothesis; Niacin INHIBITS fat release from fat cells.
I would like to question the Narconon program run as a drug rehab. If healthy people would like to do the purification rundown for spiritual reasons, and they have a medical okay to do so, then go for it.
However, if you would like to use the program in a secular fashion on drug addicts who are not initially healthy, then the program should be subject to scientific scrutiny.
What does this mean? This means independent and objective tests to demonstrate safety and efficacy.
I think the consensus is that these tests have not been done, and based on my understanding, the purification rundown will likely not stand up to scientific rigors when it comes to detoxification claims, the use of high niacin doses on people with potentially compromised livers, the avoidance of drug based therapy on highly addicted people, and appropriate training and use of overdose kits.
These last two will mean there will be cause for some medications as you are dealing with an at risk population, some of whom are likely to need immediate urgent care.
Perhaps you may choose to promote it as a faith-based approach then providing it only people deemed healthy enough, and providing appropriate care is taken for people who overdose. This is essentially how the purification rundown is approached within the Church of Scientology; however, the general purification rundown supervisors are not prepared to deal with overdose.
Scientology has at times made practical claims such as increased intelligence, increased intellectual functioning, and increased mathematical functioning and then chosen to mask these claims behind the cloak of spiritual beliefs. This has happened both under the direction of L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige.
I am an ex-scientologist, I do not practice, and based on my experience I do not believe I have personal benefit from the practice of Scientology. I disagree with stating practical benefits and then hiding behind a spiritual only fineprint, but I recognize the conundrum of having to reconcile practical claims which have not been verified by independent scientific scrutiny with spiritual claims.
Narconon brings this problem to a head in addition to highlightng the mismanagement issues discussed above.
I am posting because: 1) I hope the indepenend community can consider the dangers of using purification rundown program on an at risk population, 2) I believe that the scientific method should be used to verify any practical claims in a secular setting, and 3) I would like to encourage independents to consider the scientific method.
The last may be unpopular, but it addresses how I felt when I became involved with Scientology many years ago. I was curious, I was eager to learn, and I wanted to use my rational thinking abilities.
I know someone who died of overdosing 6 months after supposedly graduating a Narconon program (at a pretty hefty price paid by elderly parents with nice commission going to the person who selected the now-deceased for the program). The individual who died did detox with the initial NN program, but certainly the reasons why the person got onto drugs in the first place were never touched.
What’s to be expected? Gradually came back to the same old environment, problems, habits, case. Back to the same old solution. Others have pointed out how Narconon’s results in actually getting people fully off drugs have suffered because techniques have been watered down and the auditing that helped others handle the reasons they got onto drugs were stripped from NN line up. That is my conclusion as well.
It is very sad to hear that so many have died and suffered from false promises. On the other hand, I have also seen miracles with the Purif. Medical monitoring is the way to go, especially when older and/or more compromised individuals are doing it.
I don’t claim to be an expert, but this is my understanding …
True, drugs are not “toxins” in the strict biological technical definition. (Now I know why you said this.) Drugs are poisons, though. All drugs are poisons, and all poisons are drugs. (It is no accident that the words ‘poison’ and ‘potion’ come from the same root, or that the Greek word pharmakon, which we find rooted in our own words ‘pharmacy’ and ‘pharmacology,’ originally meant both a healing draught and a deadly one.)
In the broadest sense, a drug or a poison is any chemical that can effect an alteration in the function or structure of living tissue.
(In the alternative health field, drugs are loosely called “toxins”, too.)
Some drugs, not all, can get stored in fat cells. That’s fact. It’s easy to check this data.
I somewhat agree with you about the, what seems very arbitrary, 5000 MG of Niacin and 5 hours of sweating for every human body in the purification rundown. I haven’t found the scientific documents for this.
If somebody continues to eat and drink an unhealthy diet loaded with chemicals, smoke, drink, do drugs, live in smog, use chemically laden household items, not exercise to produce a sweat regularly, not take products that help detoxify, they’re going to load their bodies with chemicals yet again.
They will continually need to do the purif again, again, and again, endlessly, to keep their bodies as purified as they can. It can be an endless rundown, IMO.
You may find this link interesting …
I find the following report, by cdc.gov, abhorrent! … (“Mission control, we have a serious problem!”)
National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals
“The Fourth National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals, Updated Tables, February 2012 provides new data since the release of the Fourth Report, 2009. These data include updated tables for 66 chemicals in the Fourth Report, 2009 and tables for 34 new chemicals.”
Click to access FourthReport_UpdatedTables_Feb2012.pdf
My view on conventional medicine is the same as MIT Scientist Raymond Francis. He says it best, succinctly.
Kevin, you wrote: “I didn’t see any data on that site on the actual measurement of toxins & drugs …as there apparently has never been anything published on the actual measurement of drugs & toxins released the whole premise of the program is put into question ”
You didn’t look very closely then. Many of the studies involved measurements of toxins before and after, with most of these involving control groups or other similar controls.
As with anything in science, objectivity is always the goal. That’s also why repeatability should be used, using different scientists and labs where possible. The above-mentioned studies show that this was pursued by the scientists involved. I wasn’t involved personally, so can’t comment much more on this.
And yes, I agree, real medical supervision should be used on the program — especially for those considered at greater risk. LRH did point this out, but I would agree that in my experience good medical supervision has never been implemented in most cases by the CoS.
They have to start somewhere Mike. But yeah, have a look. Also, the manner of elimination (i.e. sweat vs. urine) is not so much the issue, as is whether greater mobilization is achieved by use of the program — especially as it relates to eliminating toxic burdens.
Non temporal link: http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=9496
YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/RrLcWiTdMB4
If Scientology is a scientific approach to the spiritual, it denies the basic fundamental of science: science constantly evolves, is constantly challenged and new discoveries are made. Scientology is too stuck in “everything LRH said or wrote is workable truth that works 100% of the time and should never be changed,” IMHO. Then on the other end of the spectrum you get Miscavage altering workable tech and inventing “tech” that doesn’t work. Again, real science eventually corrects itself.
Liver and kidney panels would be done by any competent MD doing the medical exam (which, as I mentioned, is REQUIRED for everyone before they begin the purification rundown) if the MD saw anything in the patient’s general health or history indicating the possibility of liver or kidney problems. The usual test done is called a CHEM7.
The Purification Rundown is safe when done standardly. It has been used to help people get over the residual effects of drugs and toxins for years.
Since my education (high school and university) was mainly technical, later on in my life, I find having problems trying to handle situations where I, as a consumer, needed to “complain”. So, I went to a library and read some books about the subject. After I learnt it, I noticed a big (good) difference in my handlings. I also find what I learnt very useful when I wanted or needed to do constructive criticism.
The best book I found is The Art Of Writing Effective Letters by Rosemary T. Fruehling and Sharon Bouchard. It’s not a new book (1972) but I still keep re-reading it from time to time.
I found I get much better results doing constructive criticism in a non antagonistic way. Doing it in an antagonistic way, even if people think I’m right, they start defending themselves and attacking me, because they think my intentions are not good. Even doing it in a non antagonistic way, some people may start defending themselves and attacking me, because they think my intentions are 1.1.
I suggest you read the above mentioned book. ( I just found it in Amazon.com, $4.98 new, $0.01 used, plus $S&H: http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Writing-Effective-Letters/dp/0070223459) .
Please consider contacting Tony Ortega at the Village Voice to get your story out!
The irony of this might be that if their success rate really is 40%, that would be phenomenally higher than that of any other rehab program.
You admit that toxins are stored in fatty tissue, and then you quibble about whether it is drugs or their “metabolites” which are stored there. You do not seem to consider the possibility that these metabolites might also be harmful. And do you even think that the average person knows what the term “metabolite” means? A cool $50 word, Mike. Of course you also do not emphasize that EVERYTHING has been “metabolized” by the time it has been absorbed into the blood, let alone is stored in fatty tissues or processed by the liver! Then you strenuously object to anyone claiming that drugs are stored in fatty tissue. But you also admit that you do not know for sure that drugs are NOT stored in fatty tissue even if you strenuously object to others claiming that they are.
And then you inferred as fact without evidence that sitting for 5 hours per day in the sauna in a well monitored, supervised setting is “dangerous”.
You also infer without evidence that taking large doses of niacin while doing the purification rundown is harmful for a healthy person. (You fail to mention the well known fact that prescribing large doses of niacin for high blood pressure and high cholesterol is a common practice for MDs.)
Then you accuse purification rundown practitioners of “taking away people’s legally prescribed meds against their will and not informing patients of the risks or dangers of such a regimen.” What?? As someone who has been trained to deliver this service and has read most of the technical bulletins and instructions regarding its delivery I can tell you that this statement is not true.
Your objections just seem to go on and on without any interest or acknowledgement in what is true or false unless it fits into your conclusion. As someone who is trained in the sciences, you should be INTERESTED in what you are investigating, without prejudice.
Wayne, nitty gritty applies here!!
“Why’s” are actually considerations, motivated and / or caused by beings. The “hows” are similarly explained.
At the end of the day….there’s “cause” (the real culprit!)
as in….ho hum…Scn AXIOM 1: “Life is basically a static.”
then on to AXIOM 2,3,4,etc,etc.
And the need for a game/s. (See clause 30–The Factors) The game/s also require a games condition, necessitating
alter-is-ness, not-is-ness, etc.etc. (good ol’ complexity!!)
Damned if we don’t have a game on our hands, hey?
You appear to be a “hater” who chooses make generalizations about the SUBJECT of Scientology while REFUSING to distinguish between the subject and its practitioners. …How many deaths have been “caused by Scientology” before Miscavige took over the church? …How many deaths have been caused by Scientology at the hands of Indie practitioners?? ….Anybody? …Anybody?? Mike B???
Oh that’s right… not the sort of question that fits into your agenda. And not surprisingly, like almost all haters, you don’t seem to actually know much about what you are attacking and also have no real interest in learning about it.
You have said that you are a student of microbiology.
Maybe I should make a list of “students of microbiology” in the U.S. who have committed terrible crimes….come to think of it, THAT would be easy, wouldn’t it! All I would have to do is find out the names of the people who have promoted and/or approved some of the many dangerous drugs which have caused deaths in the last decade and later been banned!
Then, without actually learning about microbiology, I could promote to the world that the subject of microbiology is evil and should be eradicated and that all of it’s practitioners should be scorned and banned from practicing the subject!
…Can you see the “logical” parallel, Mike ?
PS, THE game….”ME(guess WHO?)using MY TEAM (useful idiots –my slaves! and anyone
I can bribe, dominate, blackmail and/or coerce into submission)..vs.All the SP’s and squirrels.”
The GOAL –“MY successful Micavology empire!”
(ploy)”We the IAS (DM!)are the most resolute,
defiant group the world has ever seen!”
Anyone opposing us in getting OUR hands on
THEIR (OUR!!) money!!!
Timely reminder from LRH on this matter:
“All games are aberrative –some are fun!”
Kindly respond to my posting above, if you will.
Narconon Arrowhead has serviced 10K people in 19 years and had four deaths, two of them we know for sure were completely not attributable to the program itself.”
Hang on Sigal, you stated earlier that the causes of 3 of 4 of the deaths are unknown to you. Now you’re saying you’re “sure” that the program is not to blame for at least 2. Which is it?
You also left out a further 3 related deaths since 2005.
July 19 2012: Stacy Murphy, 20, from Owasso.
April 11 2012: Hillary Holten, 21, from Carrolton, Texas.
Oct. 26 2011: Gabriel Graves, 32, from Claremore.
March 2009: Kaysie Dianne Werninck, 28.
January 2009: Jean Lafitte, 52.
April 2007: Fred Oesterreicher, 53.
February 2005: Sharon Charlene Nederlander, 44.
These were people. People with families. People who put their trust in a group that seemingly cares more about money, image, and keeping Miscavige in the lifestyle to which he is accustomed, than honesty, humility and quality of care.
notwithstanding all you have stated in the above
and in earlier postings, and the responses by
others in their replies, (btw, please follow up to
the replies I sent you, above!), I feel that you are
missing out on an opportunity to actually LEARN
something from your interaction with fully trained
Scientologists, such as LDW, posting above.
For someone untutored and / or inexperienced
in the subjects matter of your profession, to
be “flat-earth-ing” the knowledge YOU have put
an enormous amount of study and research into
achieving, would be an insult and arrogance in
the extreme–(don’t you think?) In fact, the mere
fact that you have the field experience, qualifies
you to be considered something of an expert,
one might assume? (see the indignation caused
to LDW above, by your disrespectful remarks to
a highly successful, qualified spiritual counsellor!)
Similarly, (and again, please do reply to my
posting above, of 9.19 am) your dismissiveness
of actual relief and assistance in overcoming
serious drug dependency situations, falls short
in favour of exclusive “interest in liver and kidney
screenings before and after…..”.
It can be presumed, that for all practical purposes
of THIS blog (focussed upon Scientology, which incorporates the study of the thetan (spirit)),
there is nothing of real value to offer you, since
you are admittedly focussed upon the study of
MEST (Matter, Energy, Space and Time)
If there is no possibility of the existence of the
“spirit” in your assessments of life, then WHAT, prompts you to keep logging onto this site?
“Then that is totally counter-intuitive to the “Drugs are stored in fat cells” hypothesis; Niacin INHIBITS fat release from fat cells.”
I’m jumping in the middle of this thread having only briefly read the interchange; however, you say ‘inhibits fat release’, BUT we’re talking about drugs and toxins being released from fat cells – just because Niacin inhibits fat release doesn’t follow that it inhibits drug or toxin release from fat cells.
Whew!!! Thank you for taking the time and effort, along with several others here, to post these replies to Mike B.
Mike B. Li’l Bit has pointed up something that no matter who you are, what field you are in is valid. The willingness to le’go a cherished assumption when facts belie that assumption. That’s FACTS, not opinions. Not “authority”.
Surely there are facts presented here that put at least a chink in the armor of your assumptions. Surely there’s room for another view.
Nothing wrong with a premise either Mike B, but when further look warrants a new premise, or at least a tweak, well, then it’s time to re-evaluate.
Obviously, Li’ll davey the dictator has sufficient funds
to hold out for quite a while longer. What he doesn’t have
much left of, is goodwill, credibility or genuine friendships.
On the other hand, he has a growing number of angry
discontents, genuinely bitter enemies and a vault or two
full of carefully concealed secrets and real crimes, any of
which could land him in jail for a very long time.
It can’t be easy for him when he is constantly reminded
that the Independent movement, spearheaded by Marty
& Mike, sees a rapid growth of membership flowing directly
from the exodus of his former adherents.
Tony Ortega has also to be congratulated on his resolute job in spreading the truth to a much wider audience.
At the end of the day, li’ll davev can kick, scream, choke,
punch all he wants, but there is no escaping what awaits
him at the end of all his “sowing (evil) in order to reap”
…………………..”The GRIM Reaper!”…………………………….
Sleep well, li’ll davey,…..sleep…..well!
A well aligned, adjusted, brought into agreement, Admin Scale, with thorough review ongoing, would deal with these discrepencies no matter where they originate. Live orgs, beings operating in PT, evaluating successes and failures, that deliver the results is the aim.
I know we can agree on this.
Thank you MaBu, I truly appreciate it. I’ll check it out.
Constructive criticism! Just what I asked for. Ha!
In getting caught up on the recent posts this morning, I had a contrary concept as regards your statement:
“Where I get frustrated is just this: until we depose DM and get him out of the picture, nothing further can be done. So when people come in and
say, “Yeah, but a lot of what the CoS did before DM was also crap!” Hey, I agree. But there’s just no way to do anything about it since DM is in the way.”
This viewpoint to me basically says that ‘WE’ cannot do anything about it UNTIL DM is out of the way. I do not share that concept since what DM and the CO$ are is NOT SCIENTOLOGY THE PHILOSOPHY but rather a control group run by a sociopath.
I say DM and his minions are irrelevant and should not be given support in the form of resistance in that “What you resist will persist”. Those still drinking Kool-Aide need our assistance where we are able to bring it. Beyond that, anyone remaining in, supporting the Demented Midget or his close henchmen, unwilling to look, etc. should not be resisted. As you aptly pointed out earlier, their terminal is the IJC. That of course would be US as individuals dealing with them as individuals …..IMHO. Each one will need to do their A-E steps in order to ever really confront the subject again.
The CoS statement, which I’ve quoted here, contains a logical fallacy:
“This whole story completely ignores the fact that 200,000 people
die every year (550 per day) from pharmaceuticals – typical!
Narconon Arrowhead has serviced 10K people in 19 years and had
four deaths, two of them we know for sure were completely not
attributable to the program itself.”
For one failing of logic among many, it is a straw man fallacy. Consider the following comparisons. Ralph Nader writes a book that changes automotive safety (“Unsafe at Any Speed”) and uses Corvairs as a prominent example. Let’s say the auto industry said that’s ridiculous. Yes, some people have died in Corvairs, but some of those were driver error — in fact they almost all were! And don’t attack Corvairs — 50,000 people a year die in car crashes!
By CoS’s illogic, Narconon would still be a good deal if only say 100 Narconon clients died every day — after all, 550 a day are dying from drugs, right? So greatest good for greatest number, right? No.
An honest, logical analysis would have been:
— One preventable death is too may; we are researching this
— We will compare Narconon safety and results not against the number of supposed pharmaceutical deaths BUT against similar programs to compare efficacy, recidivism both short and long term, safety, patient outcome satisfaction, etc., and will open up all our records to objective research
— We will cease pretending that Scientology front groups or groups using LRH tech have no connection to Scientology; we will become honest beings and as such will enjoy the rights of honest beings
In my opinion, Scientology has produced intriguing and sometimes incredible results. It needs to be opened up to honest scrutiny and research. Where it can stand up to critical investigation and research, it would then be validated. Where it cannot stand up to such investigation or research, why would we want to hold onto that anyway?
Finally, whoever writes for CoS in a sophomoric effort to defend it should be checked out on logical fallacies and steer clear of them.
Oops, My post above should be places under Thoughtfuls post here.
Exactly. I have worked at a rehab and when people come back from a LOA they are to be checked along with anything they bring back as soon as they walk in the door. And, many times they are also given a drug test to assure nothing is in their system.
Very interesting stuff Steve.
The CoS statement after the Rock Center show aired clearly shows their responsibility (NOT):
As well as from Gary Smith: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48696364?__utma=14933801.1672831210.1345340689.1345340689.1345340689.1&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1345340689&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1345340689.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmccn=%28organic%29|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=%28not%20provided%29#.UDD_bqPqUQo
As well as NN Int: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48694961?__utma=14933801.1672831210.1345340689.1345343314.1345346070.3&__utmb=14933801.0.10.1345346510&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1345346070.3.3.utmcsr=google|utmccn=%28organic%29|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=%28not%20provided%29#.UDEAFaPqUQo
thank you ST and Calvin! I have a lot of reading to do.
Calvin – hope you are doing fine as well, I stole a bit of ocean air, now back to reality 🙂
Unfortunately Jim, it appears that with our dear friend, Mike B, he has no willingness to move from the position of being bigoted, since he
sees no point in making real life investigation
into the possibility that Hubbard’s discoveries
relating to the mind, spirit and even the poss-
ibility of realizing (through the process of self
discovery, known as auditing,) that one may have actually lived before, are all completely preposterous, and therefore he has resigned
himself to the study of life strictly in terms of the biological level. For him, at least, there is
no survival beyond body death.
Right, Mike B?
Chilocco literally moved, in buses, trucks and a long caravan, to Arrowhead. All of the staff, and all of the students. Months of preparation for the move. I was there. I can’t speak for L.A. or missions or anything else, but I definitely know what happened at the end of Chilocco and the beginning of Arrowhead.
Mike, I gave you a study, from the database you gave, that showed exactly that…
And here’s the thing – cannabinoid storage in fat cells is well known in pharmacology. I hold a psych degree and am on the tail-end of a medical degree, and I knew that within the first 25 minutes of a ‘drugs and the brain’ module.
I can’t speak for other drugs, niacin, or to the efficacy of the Purif – and I’m not a Scientologist, I’m only on my 2nd LRH book. But you seem to be here for a ‘joust’, as opposed to a discussion. If you were genuinely interested in researching what you claim to be, entering ‘cannabis fat cells’ into google scholar would’ve told you that.
May I respectfully suggest you’re in the wrong place?
This is a pro-LRH, anti-DM blog (to greatly simplify), and the fact you have a good grounding in pharmacology, but yet haven’t done the most basic research (or even acknowledged my earlier post about cannabinoids) speaks volumes about your motives.
Personally, Narconon in it’s current form should not be running. I think that, you think that, and from what I gather, the majority of posters think that. Those deaths are a tragedy, and should NEVER have happened. You don’t really need to ‘joust’ here, but I do understand your motivation.
You’ve been given a good shake here; people have been open and forthcoming, and you’ve received some good responses. Not everyone gets that.
If you have such an issue with Narconon (which I can’t blame, really), as opposed to a desire to learn (or at least fairly and accurately judge), your time is probably better spent communicating this to local authorities with Narconon facilities, or posting on any of the anti-CoS forums/websites you can find.
Again, aside from my earlier mentioned point, I don’t necessarily disagree with some of your views. I just think this is an odd and unproductive place to air them. Why here?
This is not meant as an attack, and I’m sorry to ramble on, but I see people come here with genuine questions, and some who come for an argument. I think you’re acting like the latter, and it makes it harder for the former.
Regardless, all the best with your studies.
Indeed Jim we can.
It is a bit exciting being at the spawning ground of a new movement.
This thing has legs. All that potential dedication is humming like a turbine ready to flip on the main mega watt switch.
For anyone that I annoy, I’ll work on my delivery like Mabu has suggested.
Whatever I have to offer here, is good intentioned. I understand the sensitivity of my topic.
Have a good day ya’ll
Mia, great to hear, and yes, I am pretty sure that you
will grow enormously, (spiritually) as a direct result of
logging onto Marty’s blog on a daily basis. Indeed it
is this experience that helps me keep a cool head in managing an otherwise truly chaotic life situation.
Nice and well mannered response, K. and thanks for
the brief intro on your background. This is and will
probably remain, if not exclusionist, then in all
probability, an uncomfortably “hot” place, for the
“interesting” as opposed to the “interested” visitors.
Durban, South Africa.
Narconon Louisiana New Life Retreat, Narconon Louisiana
Employer Identification Number (EIN) 204122923
Name of Organization Narconon Louisiana New Life Retreat
Secondary Name Narconon Louisiana
In Care of Name Thomas A Steiner
Address 35059 Bend Rd, Denham Spgs, LA 70706-0655
Subsection Charitable Organization
Ruling Date 11/2007
Deductibility Contributions are deductible
Foundation Organization which receives a substantial part of its support from a governmental unit or the general public
Exempt Organization Status Unconditional Exemption
Tax Period 01/2011
Assets $1,000,000 to $4,999,999
Income $1,000,000 to $4,999,999
Filing Requirement 990 (all other) or 990EZ return
Asset Amount $1,618,909
Amount of Income $2,862,909
Form 990 Revenue Amount $2,862,909
Read more: http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt/LA/Narconon-Louisiana-New-Life-Retreat-Narconon-Louisiana.html#ixzz243gkETao
(When you are an OT7 and/or OT8 running the place, still in tight with David Miscavige, your money is no doubt paying for the things DM wants you to pay for, whatever that may be. I have no proof of where the income actually goes.)
These people are not in the mission business anymore since they can make MUCH more money through Narconon.
I’m sorry Obnosis, but this clearly shows ignorance (ignore-ance) of the fundamentals of scientology philosophy and practice as LRH stated them. It does show a good understanding of the CoS as Miscavige has developed it by reversing LRH’s statement of the subject and intentions for it.
Aaaagh! This is old ground which speaks to the literalness which is what has corrupted scientology application away from it’s original design and intent.
Have you read Marty’s book? He speaks to the very issue you have brought up. That’s as constructively as I can respond now.
Thefource, I’m very sorry for your loss.
I got into this when I, like many young people who’ve become Scientology-watchers in the past few years, discovered the infamous South Park episode online. I believe I then discovered the Jason Beghe interview, the “Tom Cruise on Scientology” and then all the more beefy sources; XENUTV, Lermanet, Operation Clambake, Exscn, Village Voice and I’ve been hooked ever since. I then discovered this sight a few months ago.
As for asking me of whether my “period of investigation has a certain relevance in being able to differentiate the ‘genuine article’ from the imposter version,” I’m really not sure what you’re asking. Are you implying that that article about Narconon in CA getting sued is untrue?
Thanks AussieCase. I agree, the Purif needs to be used with care on any at-risk populations. Didn’t LRH develop it for the purpose of making “the able more able”, not specifically to rehab drug addicts? When I did the Purif under the supervision of the local Mission, it was in a college town. Mostofthestaff were young and healthy. Some of us had a “hippie” type or medical drug history, if any. we were all basically healthy and hardy.
I think Miscavige and company gutted the Narconon program and perhaps tried to make the Purif do most of the “work”. In fact, there are a lot of other elements that could have helped addicts, as has been mentioned.
The Purif may have applications useful to rehabbing drug addicts,but it needs to be used with care, perhaps after the person’s overall health has been restored as much as possible. After all, Narconon was started and was effective before the Purif was developed.
(…countinued) As for that I ” infer without evidence that taking large doses of niacin while doing the purification rundown is harmful for a healthy person. (You fail to mention the well known fact that prescribing large doses of niacin for high blood pressure and high cholesterol is a common practice for MDs.)”
“Hepatotoxicity manifests as a spectrum that includes mild elevation of liver enzymes, hepatic steatosis, hepatic necrosis, and, rarely, hepatic failure. Treatment includes discontinuation of niacin, and usually the liver enzymes return to normal. The smallest dose of niacin that leads to hepatotoxicity described in the literature is 1 g/day”
“The typical pattern of injury involves an elevation in aminotransferase levels although a mixed pattern of hepatocellular and cholestatic injury can be seen. Histologic findings most often consist of liver necrosis to various degrees and in varying patterns… Almost any formulation of niacin can cause hepatotoxicity in doses that exceed 2-3 grams per day,”
Interesting thing I found in the same article niacin causes an “inhibition of hepatic VLDL and triglyceride,” fat, “secretion and thus a reduction in the substrate needed to make LDL particles.” In other words, Niacin makes you RETAIN fat. So how is niacin supposed to flush the drugs supposedly inside fat cells?
As for saying “this statement is not true,” in regards to patients having their meds taken away against their will, check these out; Danette Elliott and Colni Henderson had their blood and heart meds taken away.
Youtube “Fox News 25 Oklahoma Narconon Desperate”
Kaysie Werninck was one of the patients died who died because NNAH didn’t give her the right meds, which means they took it and got them mixed up.
Are these people lying Espiritu?
Mike B, thanks for your response. And I appreciate you being honest, in particular, about your info.
sources. That batch of ridicule is somewhat akin to
watching cartoons of the “mad professor” in his lab,
or the myopic computer geek, announcing his
earth shattering new programme to increase the
intelligence level of tomato plants!!
Mike B, onto the point though, if I can manage to hold
your attention. Bluntly, have you investigated Scn —- as it existed , whilst under the personal management of L.Ron Hubbard (the “genuine article”) or the later
altered, imposter version, under David Miscavige?
The “technology,” as espoused by DM’s CO$ is so
thoroughly corrupted, that it bears almost no resemb-
lance to the original subject whatsoever!
The analogy to purchasing the two plots of land, as
laid out in the imaginary scenario above, is merely
used to illustrate how one can be devilishly conned
by not doing their homework before “buying” into
I hope we have cleared that one up, to your satisfaction.
Now Mike B, please now clear up something for me?
So what precisely, is it, that keeps you fascinated
in the subject of Scientology?
“In the Protect David Miscavige at ALL COSTS” = sell out Scientology.
How many? Do you know this as a world wide number, or Narconon USA only? They are responsible for the deaths, and anyone who is put on the program is supposed to be okayed and checked out thoroughly. The fact that someone was allowed to leave on an LOA and brought drugs into the place just shows a lack of intelligence and mess up on the staff. You want to keep people away from the public and if they do leave, they are to be checked out with a microscope up the wazoo if necessary. Using ex-addicts as staff without doctors there 24/7 is stupid.
On the other hand, many many people have been helped and there should be a valid stat …how many helped, how many died, how many failed the program or left. That is the right way to look at it. Factually , drug addicts are on a succumb so it doesn’t take much for some to fade due to poor health. If the 4 happened in one year, were they from one place or several? What is Narconon’s stats compared to other drug rehabs. Has infamous Dr. Drew ever lost a patient. Done correctly, from start to finish, the program doesn’t kill people on a regular basis, so I would have to side with Tony and Segal in that the media is out for an attack, and may not acknowledge the good. NO matter what, one sided journalism is untrustworthy and yellow in nature unless they really do have all the data …then , what is true is true.
The email did have a usual tone of ‘it’s their own fault” and the misdirect is also per usual. “Only 4 deaths” and those people deserved it????
If they had staff doctors this might help, but they don’t have medical people on board within the facility,so that part is bad for sure. It cost a lot of money out of pocket, and then when they do get paid, the money goes to WW instead of paying for medical staff. They could charge more if they had a proper staff because then insurances would cover them.
No mention of David Love’s incredible efforts or the huge protest planned this week at Narconon Arrowhead in Canadian Oklahoma with local and national media already confirmed ?
Ok man…it’s your show but…..
It’s really a nice and helpful piece of information. I’m satisfied that you just shared this useful info with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thanks for sharing.
what fall? has it fallen . no
why cant you damaged people understand that you are. stop supporting it and justifying scientology. every great deception needs some truth at the beginning . get some help