by Luis Garcia
“On Saturday, June 2, city and state dignitaries joined thousands of Scientologists in downtown Santa Ana to dedicate the new Church of Scientology of Orange County.”
And so starts the magnificent tale of the opening of yet another exuberant, oversized and empty building, disguised as a “church” where “Visitors are invited to take a self-guided tour of the expansive Public Information Center, presenting informational and documentary films on every aspect of the religion, including the life and legacy of Founder L. Ron Hubbard.”
It took over nine years and over $14 million of parishioner’s hard-earned money, but Orange County finally got their “Ideal Org.” Orange County has joined the elite group of ideal orgs where “over 600 new public come in daily.”
Reference: Orange County – Now, For The Rest Of The Story
I think it’s ironic that at the same time Miscavige was cutting the ribbon of this wonderful building, the Orange County Ideal Org was delinquent in their property taxes for 2011. Yes, you read it right; this wonderful new Org should have paid $42,506.04 by April 10th, 2012. And they did not. This was the second installment of a total bill for $85,012.08. Orange County parishioners’ donations paid the property taxes for an empty building for five years.
As you will see, the bill has accrued an additional $6,163.37 in penalties, and it continues to accrue $637.59 for each month that the bill is not paid.
Meanwhile, months after the grand opening, the org is bustling with activity, well on its way towards clearing Orange County…
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Nuts.
Good lord. Compare this mess to the successful and always buzzing OC when it was headed up by John Woodruff. Miscavige just HAD to take him out, and did. I’m sure Miscavige convinced John that it was all his (John’s) fault.
Luis, thanks for bringing this up…I guess, looking closely at the photo of Orange County Ideal Org, the fact that the American Flag is hanging at half mast tells it all!
There is a new tab up above on Martys blog called “INDEPENDENCE”. The purpose of this is to make it easier to help those still stuck in the corporate trap by having an easily accessible list for them to view all the vital info contained within those postings. They will see a vast quantity and quality of people that have declared Independence from DM’s Scientology, Inc. on Marty’s blog.
This is a work in progress and it will be updated monthly when I send the changes to Marty. If you would like to make changes to your info such as trng, processing level or other notable info, please email me toomoons@gmail.com. I’ve already noticed a couple of changes I need to make, so my apologies for that. I’m going thru the blog again from the beginning to make sure I didn’t miss anyone as I know I already have. Sorry it’s a huge blog. If you want to get on that list then send your Declaration to Marty as this list only contains items posted on his blog.
Betsy
Just curious, who holds the title to this building? I’m guessing it’s not the Orange County Org.
Is it bustling? The picture made it look dead, but I had heard the OC Org used to do good. How are they doing now?
Look at how long they left the “Super Power” building accruing fines until they finally decided to fulfil their obligations (it’s opening soon, no really…).
The church of scientology really only has contempt for such things as property taxes these days. Even as a “never been a scientologist” I know that this goes against L Ron Hubbard policy.
Oh now, I am sure it is just an administrative oversight that has resulted in them not paying the bill…it certainly could not be that they do not actually have the money. With all the new public flooding in they must have enough unallocated cash to pay this bill 10 times over, right guys?
I wonder what the people who paid the $14,000,000 think when they watch Miscavige tell the Scientology world that 600 public come into the building a day. I’m sure the same people paid money over the last 25 years for the “Super Power Building” in Clearwater that sits empty while the same old reg team continues to pound the public for more millions. These same people have been told they are Clear, not Clear, Clear, OT 7, not Clear,, need Dianetics and 100 more hours of Objectives, Clear, do “NEW” OT 7, burn the last revised books and buy new ones, retrain the “new” way…..
Oh ya – and disconnect from your own family.
The people who drank the Kool Aid at Jones Town were geniuses compared to this group of cult followers.
It just struck me that this is a little like the cathedral-building phase of Roman Catholicism — grand, opulent, magnificent buildings through Europe and around the world, even in the poorest of areas.
Perhaps the underlying assumption with CoS is that “if we build it, they will come”?
The difference of course is that Roman Catholicism was an expanding world religion, so people would actually come into the buildings.
There’s another difference, too. It lies in the failure of word clearing for Scientologists. The word “church” generally means a Christian building. Scientology’s appropriation of the word “church” thus strikes all but the densest as disguise for tax purposes. This view is reinforced by CoS disingenuous use of a cross that looks Christian (but which evidently came pretty much intact from Aleister Crowley’s Tarot deck).
Result? Until CoS becomes a fully truthful organization, the valid works of LRH will not be accepted — unless through an organization like the Independents. As long as CoS is deceptive in its name, symbols, lawyerism, stifling of human rights, muzzling of free speech, destruction of marriages and families, etc. those buildings will be more akin to the vast empty edifices of eastern European and North Korean communist dictatorships than they will ever be like cathedrals.
(And for anyone who doubts what “church” normally means, just look it up. Religions have their own terms for their places, they don’t typically appropriate the names of the “nests” of others cowbird style — temple, tabernacle, church, synagogue, ashram, cathedral, etc.)
Instant impression: that is a pretty ugly building.
Another fine example of what your donations buy in the Church of David Miscavige – well, what they’re supposed to buy, but apparently don’t, since nobody’s paying the tax bill!
The New Haven Ideal Org is in the process of foreclosure for the same reason – unpaid taxes. The case was originally scheduled for trial last February but has been continued several times. It is now scheduled for trial on 2-26-12.
http://civilinquiry.jud.ct.gov/CaseDetail/PublicCaseDetail.aspx?DocketNo=NNHCV106014252S
Correction – trial for the New Haven case is 2-26-13. Sorry
Hey…Dave got his photo op for the event…what else matters?
Yes, the picture shows a good chunk of the 600+ new daily public all excited to get into this amazing facility. You just have to squint your eyes and imagine a parallel world where Miscavige never came into power.
Nice photo, taken in middle of day looks like.
No people or cars dropping off anyone.
My local Idle Org was purchased three full years before the renovations even started. The yearly property tax bill was over $60,000. When the OTC members who had raised the funds queried why it was sitting vacant and not being fixed up, they were told it was because “Management” hadn’t had time to approve the plans…….oh, and also another four million was needed to renovate! In addition to all this folly, over a million dollars was wasted on buying out the leases and moving all the existing tenants, as everything in the C of $ has to be done right now! Then the building sat vacant for years, creating negative publicity with the city, and costing the donating clubbed seals even more money.
But why should DM care when it’s other people’s money?
Looks like DM is building a real-estate empire by fleecing gullible parishioners.
.
Just another example of the “Have-Do-Be” Miscaviage technology. We have to HAVE an Ideal Org building in order to DO the services. Then expect all the public to BE staff members.
“What do you mean you won’t joint staff??? Who cares about your house and family?? We’ve got a planet we’re trying to clear and your worried about keeping your lawn mowed?”
The ideal org debacle is one of the first “cracks” I noticed when I joined the church. I noticed the lies being told, only 150,000 to go till ideal but well really it’s more like 3 million…. Yet I read clearly quotes from LRH against this type of spending, but I was new and who was I to question . My husband and I were being pressured to take out credit cards to fund the ideal org. When we pointed out LRH clearly states this is NOT the way to be fiscally responsible we were told to ignore that and what was more important? We chose our own personal financial security not the orgs thank god. After visiting Seattles empty ideal org, the jig was up for CO$ with my family.
Skydog, the link does not work for me, can you please verify it
Glad to see I’m on there!
No one in that Org should be allowed any services now. When I was last in the Co$, the first question I would be asked is if I am tax compliant before I got any service.
Dean,
I humbly submit that perhaps we could amend your comment to reflect something a tad closer to reality.
From: “The church of scientology really only has contempt for such things as property taxes these days.”
To: The church of $cientology really only has contempt for things these days.
I beg to point out that church policy is to pay the oldest bill first. This would then indicate that there are many unpaid bills which are not as old as this one. Just sayin’…
+1000 Mat.
My Gawd I’m so glad those kool aide days are done for me forever. Just that knowingness causes a smile every time I consider it!
Somehow justifications will be made on this. Somehow, there will be those who will explain away why it’s like this but that it’s the greater good that’s happening. So many MU’s in the current church and I think it’s because these little insidious interpretations come down and then become the norm in the lower echelons. All a part of the great lie.
I spent a couple weeks at OC org in 1993, to me it was heaven on earth. The courseroom was amazing and packed, public called it “better than Flag”. If John Woodward could create that, I’m sure it will eventually be done in the independent field.
Excellent point Ingrid!
Umm – I meant Woodruff.
Only one thing……..the next up IAS event in Saith Hill. Let the FLEECING BEGIN …….AGAIN.
I can only imagine the pressure cooker scene to fill the auditorium and get some of those remaining at the kool aide stand to ante up.
Sounds like the Sac Org fiasco to me.
Same with the St Louis Idle Org building. They haven’t paid their 2011 taxes. They purchased the building in 2007 for 1.9 million and its now appraised at 1.5 million. Its still not open and they have been paying about $45, 000 per year in taxes since 2007.
http://dynamic.stlouis-mo.gov/addressSearch/index.cfm?addr=2345+++++LAFAYETTE+AV&stname=LAFAYETTE&stnum=2345&parcelIdOnly=21390002200&firstview=true
I like how they do stats now. 600 people at the grand opening = “600 new public daily”.
They are just plain lying and anyone should be able to see that.
I think one thing that makes it more difficult is that you look at your own area/org and don’t see any of these 600 people, but you think it must be happening in other areas.
Good point – that’s about all he’s concerned with. And I’m a bit surprised he doesn’t sell autographed copies of those (stamped autograph of course) to the koolaid drinkers for $1000 a pop.
And, is there a place to park?. If not they could shuttle people back and forth to the Lot outside LA Day. It’s pretty empty these days.
At this point the largest justification of all relates to the continues existence of Corporate $cientology. It is of course the ultimate lie regarding CO$ being the ONLY path to achieve your immortality! What a fuckin croc!
Should this date be 2-26-13?
Oops, didn’t see below….
And please don’t tell me there’s a handling for my poor vision…LOL
Luis, I think you tell only part of the story ? Even a condensed recap would be fascinating with your previous links. Is $14 million a lot for one building without its own parking in that area ?
Miscavige has saddled the staff and public at Mountain View as well. The new – second Idle Morgue, purchased in 2006 I believe, has property taxes due every 6 months of $51,000 and change, or $102,000 per year, for a still incomplete “new org” 6 years and running.
Compare that to their existing, already Ideal Org taxes of $2,150 total per year…
From my own experience such bills would have to be paid by the org and would not come from fund raised money. This is why it is late Or unpaid. The org itself doesn’t have it. That’s how it rolls out. All that effort to raise money for a building the org can’t maintain.
Here’s another horror story about an Idle Org:
During the renovation process of the new 50,000 square feet building, the local org management decided to hold a recruit event in the building, even though it was under construction. The DSA, Eden Stein, neglected to get a permit to stage the event, which meant that there was no insurance coverage.
Not a brilliant idea to have 100 public traipsing through a construction scene!
Sure enough, one of the OTC members helping with the dinner and event fell into a four foot deep pit late that night and severely injured his shoulder. This required hospitalization and surgery and he had no insurance. The renovation company’s insurance wouldn’t cover his expenses since they hadn’t authorized any public in the area. The org had no insurance since the DSA hadn’t gotten the permit.
So, did the org step up and offer to pay the 30K medical expenses from the renovations fund to this OTC member—– who had donated 100K to this building and another 100K to the IAS?
Uh, no……..
The ED and DSA couldn’t even be bothered to check up on the recovery of this guy, let alone return his calls about medical bills. After all, he was PTS and had pulled in the accident….
Saddest of all is the fact that this guy still guzzles the Kool-Aid and helps the org. And since he had no insurance and couldn’t get the required physical therapy after surgery, his shoulder will never be right again.
I’d be thinking, ‘hmm, wonder if it’s misrepresentation or maybe I have an equitable interest in [fill in the blank] building.
But that’s just me…
That building looks like something out of George Orwell’s “1984”. Scarrrrrrrrrryyyyy!
It would be interesting to have someone write up an analysis of how COS juggles all of their financial costs. Clearly, present membership alone cannot sustain the COST OF THE EMPIRE on donations, products and services alone. This article is centered on just ONE building in trouble. How many more are experiencing this, GLOBALLY? What are the per mbr/per org numbers? Are front companies subsidizing the costs? Did the church grow so radically in its boom years (reportedly billions) that it can still afford to maintain empty Orgs? The numbers just don’t seem to add up. Can the present corporate version of COS really pull this much money from those still “in” with COB? More importantly, how is all this getting by the government? Sure, the “church” is tax exempt, but even my dog could smell that somebody is cooking books.
As an outsider not involved, I applaud the independent movement. Clearly, you folks are handling the tech your founder left behind with honestly and good intent. When COB finally burns down the barn (and he will), it will be interesting to see what aspects of Scientology remain and what will be cast aside.
“They are just plain lying and anyone should be able to see that.”
Yep. You’re right. Anyone “should” be able to see that. Sigh.
Low confront of evil. The practice of not-isness reduces understanding. Lying brings about stupidity. Justifying overts and outpoints. The blackness of cases. bla bla bla…deaf ears do not hear, eyes wide shut.
On the flip side, we’ve now got four students on solo 1, two on Acad level zero and five pc’s on the grades. We’ve moved five guys onto their OT levels this year already may hit ten by the end of the year. Life goes on. Freedom is at hand.
Chris,
We in the Indie group are somewhat like reformed smokers when it comes to the CO$. As you said…..”They are just plain lying and anyone should be able to see that.”
But ‘anyone’ cannot and I refer back to Steve Poore’s write up:
“Precept # 7 TWTH: “Seek To Live With The Truth. False data can cause one to make stupid mistakes. It can block one from absorbing true data.”
Those CO$ers who imbibe daily of the kool aide (remain connected to David Miscaviage the Suppressive Person and his group of PTS not -ising renegades) cannot absorb true data. They simply fill in the outpoint with a created reality that explains away the scene.
I have been working this problem for many years now (as we all have). I have made inroads but for anyone who remains connected I have observed that they CANNOT and/or WILL NOT make the hard decision to resolve their doubt. It simply hangs up there due to the PTSness and the False Data.
One can only move on up a little higher. It is a sad day to leave those at the stand…….especially when they are family. But it must be done because to not do so actually acknowledges the behavior that leads to further down stats and unhappiness.
It looks more like a mausoleum. Sp?
What rip …. Rest in peace and rip off . The death nell sp? (Again)
All leads back to the sp in charge, COB. – chief of bullshit.
Great idea and thank you. We are proud to be on the Independence list —and one of the “founding members”. Yeah!
Lordburg12, this is a sad story. Actually its criminal.
Matt, I guess they just keep on hoping. It boggles my mind!
Probably would get away with hanging it upside down, I know how you Americans are with how your flag should be huung. 😉
They probably would get away with hanging it upside down, I know how you Americans are with how your flag should be huung. 😉
Damn, edited and somehow posted twice and still said huung.
I don’t know why the link doesn’t work. ( I just tried it). If you google the State of CT and go to the judicial website, there are links to pending cases. There is a link for case look up (Civil/Family) and you can check either by party name (Church of Scientology) or docket number (NNH-CV10-6014252-S).
LOL. At first I was, “Do what!?”
Then I was “Ahhhha…” 😀
I’m think what the picture shows is correct and the tag line refering to bustling is being ironic – a rare form of humour in the USA I thought. Perhaps our comedians have rubbed off on y’all. 🙂
That is unconscionable!
How could you suggest such a thing of the pious ecclesiastical leader of the world’s fastest growing and newest religion his Holiness the Dear Leader David Miscavige, C.O.B.
Dear Leader hasn’t time for a real estate empire, he’s far too busy jetting around the world cutting ribbons and making sure everything is expanding straight up and vertical with his signature lower left to upper right pose (reversed in Isreal for cultural reasons) and lengthy speeches.
(Allergy warning: may contain traces of sarcasm and attempts at wit).
I’m glad you still view the pressure to take out credit as abuse. There are some who (claim at least) that if you tell the registras you’re not taking out credit they leave you alone and those who take out credit only have themselves to blame. No. The church of scientology creates a vulnerability in people and exploits it ruthlessly.
Thank you for posting this, Lordburg12. This story is SO utterly sad, and worst of all, it’s about my Ex-husband. Yes, some of his friends are now out and told me the entire story, as you explained. The worst was left out: Due to they NOT helping him…he is now crippled in his right arm. THEY DON’T HAVE INSURANCE? F********* YOU OSA. This story should be on the front page of every major magazine on “Why one should NOT join C of $”
Yes, the Catholic building program was one that was prolific and now those ancient churches are used primarily for tourists. I do think that at some point we will pay to visit one of these magnifcent Idle Orgs and wonder at the opulance and use of the finest materials that the parishioners could buy. Oh, and to the right is a bronze bust of Lil Davie who eventually parished from his overts and brought the grand church to its destruction. ARC Bill
The saddest part of this is thinking about that 14 million, raised from a small group of parishioners.
The effort required to raise that kind of cash… Sacrifices made. Holidays cancelled. College funds. Pensions. The trust and hope of the people involved – “our church NEEDS our help! This is it!”.
Do you have any idea the level of dissemination that kind of money could buy? Especially if you were efficient and utilised things like social media and the internet?
What if it was used for Applied Scholastics? Subsidised auditing for the less well off? Funding academic studies into the Scientology Toolkit?
And yet, for their faith, work and hope, local parishioners get an empty mausoleum, and their religion is considered insular, bitter, vengeful by Joe Public.
The whole situation makes me a little sad tbh…
Really valid point. Even when I was slurping KoolAid I always thought it a tad ironical that I would be interrogated about my tax affairs before getting a 2 hours crush reg interview telling me to violate just about about every LRH finance policy going.
Les, does anyone up there have a Grad V checksheet from later than 1989? I need one to put one together for the independent field.
thanks. I can’t get into the look-up probably because I am out of the US
Betsie,
This is awesome and VERY helpful in finding specific Indie declarations.
Thank you so much for your efforts!
Greta
We in RTC wish to point out that, since it opened, over 1,000 people come in to the OC Ideal Org each day seeking the answers to life found in COB’s “BIG” Triangle.
The BIG Triangle:
* Buildings
* IAS donations
* Golden Age of Tech
When you are in “BIG” with COB there is total ARC:
* Assets flowing power to forward COB’s command intention
* Revenues flowing power to forward COB’s command intention
* Cash flowing power to forward COB’s command intention
If you would like to be Un-SP’d, then we suggest that you get in BIG with COB. By BIG, we mean a “phenomenal commitment” as in a megabucks donations of nonrefundable cash. When this happens, you will be Un-SP’d — as in your declare is cancelled — and your OT Eligibility will be restored. This Planet will not Clear itself and so we suggest you write a check with at least six figures in it to get BIG with COB.
As a special time-limited offer, you can get unrestricted Eligibility all the way to OTVIII for a one-time nonrefundable of $15,000,000 along with an OT lava lamp that has a plaque on it naming you an IAS Patron Gluteus Maximus. You will dine at the table of COB RTC David Miscavige after the next IAS event.
Consider this carefully. We need a large amount to pay off Ray Jeffrey and the two PI’s. Time is of the essence!!!!
Dan, you are right. Thanks for keeping that aesthetic viewpoint.
Now, some buildings may belong to some masonic lodge, lol… actually I hate to say, this reminds me of one. The new building of the Athens Org is very close to one such masonic lodge as I am told. Just a coincidence I guess.
That’s an ugly building, I agree.
600 people a day, wow!
It is actually pretty easy to do. You got a counter at the door.
Staff or those dressed up as ‘staff’ step in, step out, step in, step out.
And ‘voila’! 600 people a day…….
Greta
It works but takes its good time. What’s new for gov agencies……
Greta
Perhaps some truck loads of mannequins to fill the back rows could help out……
Greta
Tory – Sorry to hear about your ex and the total lack of empathy and responsibility on the part of the ED and the DSA. For those that don’t know the history of Tory’s ex, the injured party being discussed, his parents got into Dianetics the first month DMSMH was published. Both attended in person the PDC. Both had been in St Hill in England and Flo told me of having cucumber sandwiches with Mary Sue.
Paul and Flo went to Allicante Spain when the first AO was opened. Both fully supported LRH and Scientology as long as they lived. The last time I spoke with either of them was at Flag. Both were proud that their son was in the SO and married to a wonderful wife (Tory). And now, 60 years later, and we see their only son cast to the side of the road like a worn out paper cup. Disgusting! Hopefully your ex will wake up and stop taking the red pill and washing it down with large oversize servings of kool-aide.
Moneca,
Next up will be reg cycles for the new crematorium they want to add in the back. This will provide cover for all of the ethics files and disinformation they will need to dispose of as the midgets crimes continue to float to the surface!
B,
” And yet, for their faith, work and hope, local parishioners get an empty mausoleum, and their religion is considered insular, bitter, vengeful by Joe Public.”
At least Joe Public is getting the truth!
Most Indies feel that way about miscavige too, except
huung from the nearest tree! Upside down, whatever!
This real estate con scheme of Scientology Inc is about to bust. The only question is this year or next?
Amen, Mat. Also I go by many of their “Ideal Orgs” and each time I do, they are E M P T Y. Most are 4 story buildings with this many public in them: 0
Also, here’s a new scam: They now opened in Inglewood, CA a “Community Center”. A friend (Ex-member, Class 8 and black) and I went to check it out and hear what their “Town meeting” was about.
As we arrived there were MANY black peeps outside. So I said, “Let’s go over and check it out”. We arrived and a gentleman asked: “Are you here for the town meeting?” We said, “Yes we are”. He? “Well, it’s cancelled—they locked us OUT”. THESE WERE PEOPLE FROM THE CALIFORNIA MENTAL HEALTH. I know many of you may be against that—but think about it: These folks rented a “Community Center” to do their talk on helping black people on skid row who suffer from mental illnesses.
Once I realized what was going down, I explained it to one of the state officials. This was the only thing I could possibly figure out and it is based on my opinion: Scientology THOUGHT they were going to be pitching Louis Farrakhan’s latest: “Scientology is what we need”. Once the Doctor said: “This has NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENTOLOGY” ….they literally locked them OUT. JEEEEEEESH. “Community Center” Oh My gawd. These people thankfully got to see the “church” of Scientology IN ACTION: Who they *really* are, as they stood outside for over 1 hour. The Doctor did her meeting on the sidewalk. I doubt they’ll forget that.
“self-guided tour”? Isn’t that oxymoronic?
Well, if it’s an Ideal Org Scientology “self-guided tour”, it’s probably just moronic.
That’s cause we Americans like our flags HUUNG! 😉
It looks like a sandwich bar to me but not a sandwich bar that i would go into .
Is David Miscavige really having bronze busts made of himself ?
When i hear of him having busts made of himself i am not sure whether it is a joke or not on this blog !
Nice. Very nice, Les and “posse” 🙂
The “idle org” period will go down as one of the biggest scams in history. The ironic thing is, that it is just a cussing waste of money. The only people making money on this are the contractors, suppliers, and the tax collectors. At least they’re getting something out of it.
Oh, and the church gets title to a lot of buildings they didn’t pay for, so who cares if the building values falls to 1/2 of what was paid, or lower? That is still a lot more than the zero they put into it.
Rather than doing Scientology, corporate Davidians (did I really write that?) are being kept busy hustling bucks for buildings, hustling bucks for the IAS, hustling bucks for altered books. They are being shifted around on their bridge – clear! Not clear! Clear! – need a sec check! sec check some more! Do conditions! Stay busy. Whatever you do, do NOT look at what is really happening. Do NOT look at the empty buildings, and do NOT look at reality. Just keep your mind off of it. Just stay busy. Hey! There is a really cool fundraiser!
“There is LITTLE that a few more closes wouldn’t handle!”
That is an actual tagline from an actual email for a Gavin Potter seminar at Pasadena. This should be the cussing motto of the Davidian Church of Miscavige.
Mark
I just figured it out. You are going to feel like a fool when you realize whats really going on.
Here’s the thing. None of the ” Ideal orgs ” ~~ these Grand Opulent Buildings are energy efficient. They are huge structures sucking out maximum electricity ~~
The electric bills for air conditioning a giganitc monolithic structure is HUGE.
$20,000 a month for lighting and air conditioning alone.
Dallas/Ft Worth is 90 to 100 degrees daily.
Air conditioning a must !
BUT
No money. Org is Empty !
Next plea :
PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE GIVE US $20,000 FOR Utility Bill….or
Utilities will be shut off !
True Story.
What is amazing to me is that the people who have donated all that $$$ are just left high and dry once the foreclosure takes place. You would think they would be mad as hell and hope they would raise some hell !
I just got some new resources in and will let you know when I have some time to go over them.
Les
Luis,
Thanks for applying the successful motto of “FOLLOW THE MONEY” and keeping tabs on that scene.
Isn’t there also an Indie website that was going to do that for ALL Idle Morgues in US and globally so it’s all under one hat?
Greta
“Ideal” is sort of a relative term Tony. I’m sure to Miscavige this is an “Ideal” Org. Dirty, stinky, stupid humans all over the place would not be ideal. Shiny, MESTy buildings for photogaphs- IDEAL.
In my conversations with the city attorney, I was left with the impression that this matter will probably settle before trial. I met up with one of the staff members who wanted to know why I was walking around looking at the property. When I told him that it was being foreclosed, he seemed surprised. I told him to check the court records. The membership is kept totally in the dark.
What a coincidence, that picture must have been taken the same time I drove by the other day. It was just as empty. I remember the days back in the 80’s when OC was actually St Hill size. The basic course room alone had at least 4 supervisors. It as tough to walk through the halls because there were so many people. You had to wait in line just to see a reg. Those days are long gone, thanks to DM.
Here we confront more testament concerning the utter lunatic sociopath we’ve all known as MissCabbage. He’s a living, breathing example of “We Come Back.”
Hello Caligula!
Shouldn’t be a problem, David Miscavige is a problems release.
Which reminds me, I got involved with Scientology to resolve problems. It seems so funny now that the state of Scientology has become a problem I am trying to fix.
I guess that’s evolution for you.
It seems to be spreading too. Like when you go to an individual to get help resolving a problem, and the individual selling the help and/or solutions becomes a whole ‘nother problem!
Nice job Betsy !!!!!!
Karen#1 you are correctomundo!!!!! staff pay for the utilities, gag me as if the staff even get paid, the significant other who works 120 hours a week (who is not on staff) pays!
Pingback: David Miscavige The Tax Delinquent « 31 Factors
Another sign of counting pennies is their admission that they are using an attorney letter from another property, but “changing the dates.”
Actually, if an Idle Org building falls to 1/2 face value and has to be sold, the Church gets to take the drop in value as a write-off for depreciated commerial property sale…the church gets to write off the loss on its taxes! Ha!
yes, there is a website. idleorgs.com
+1!!!
Actually, this is very, very appropriate. For all of you who are not from the US, hanging the stars and stripes upside down is a signal of distress. It is like sending out an S.O.S.
Does the CoS stop members from seeking Medicaid? I think this is incredibly sad; and they call him PTS for being injured due to the CoS’s own negligence? I wish he would wake up and sue the church.
Mantis, exactly right about the org not having the money.
However, you might be surprised by how the fundraising monies got allocated. About five or six years ago all orgs were required to buy giant Volunteer Minister vans and tents to have weekend events at flea markets and swap meets with OCA testing, assists, pinch tests, booksales, etc. As I recall, the amount was 30,000 or more. My org got approval to use the building fund money to pay this.
It was stated that this was a promotional action that would bring in people and funds for expansion. In reality, it was a nightmare staffing problem to get VMs to set up and man these events all weekend. Then there were flaps with where to park the gigantic van all week in paid spaces that the FP could never afford.
Business as usual in a Class V org…….every management “latest and greatest” order was the one thing that was going to boom the org. Never a thought was given to future encumbrances on the FP.
After they handle the 600 public a day, they still have time to call me even
though I haven’t responded once to more than 500 personal messages left on my phone over the last 8 months.
Juvenile delinquent, thourgh and through.
Off topic, but perhaps of interest.
Progressive Scientology Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/groups/352832418141074/
“‘Progressive Scientology’ respects the Sacredness of Truth, Reason, Love, Communication, and Questioning.
This group is open to all, however the focus of the conversation is for Progressive Scientologists who are NON-fundamentalists, and agree with all that they, themselves, find good and workable in Scientology. However, they do NOT believe all of L. Ron Hubbard’s works are inerrant, and don’t believe every word he said should be taken literally or sacredly … especially because “he said so.”
Progressive Scientology is more interested in real spiritual technology which assists others to deeper understandings and personal growth, rather than focus on the Scientology religion or the religiosity of Scientology.
Progressive Scientologists would rather be technologists, rather than religionists.
We uphold the belief that “What is true for you, is true for you at that moment”, and that nobody has the right to enforce you to believe anything. Only when YOU have discovered something to be true, is it then true for you.
Enforced reality is not part of Progressive Scientology.
Our motto is, “Question Everything.”
Here, you are free to question everything. Nothing is taboo.
(Ad hominems are not tolerated. So please stick to rational argument, and try to avoid logical fallacies. :))”
“Lying brings about stupidity.”
There is the “which comes first, the chicken or the egg?” It was stupid for DM to come out and announce “We have to have before we can do”. He did it with the ship, he did it with the Super Power Building, He did it with the real estate. Scientologists are generally pretty smart people. They knew it. Why did they go along with it? They WANTED the Scientology. They were told, “You CAN”T HAVE THE SCIENTOLOGY UNTIL…”
This is when the domination took form. DM put out a lie, and turned it into a truth.
People thought they would not get OT8 until they bought him a ship. Because that is the truth he created based on a lie.
The truth is DM is just running CAN’T HAVES with the Scientology!
He makes it sound like, “You can have the Scientology after you do this for me”.
What he is really saying is, “You CAN’T HAVE the Scientology unless…
And when someone does get a sniff of the stuff, it is now on a MUST HAVE FLOW! “You must get sec checks! You must redo your objectives! You must go back to Dianetics because you are not clear!”
The MUST HAVE’S are actually CAN’T HAVES!
There are covert ways to run the CAN’T HAVE the Scientology also. Suggesting someone needs to be parked off the bridge for a while. Throwing some tech at someone that sets them up for a loss. Telling them you gave them grade lV when you gave them 20% of grade lV. Charging people for “Scientology” and then not delivering any “Scientology”.
All of these CAN’T HAVES are STUPID. Making clears and OT’s makes the world a better place for everyone.
Thank you to all of auditors and tech people out there that are running CAN HAVES with the Scientology!
Thank you gentlemen!
This is exactly the stupidity I have come to expect from the cob.
Another baid and switch, turned bad for the cult of cob.
I guess some people like to be the cob’s whipping boy/girl.
Wow, Les! The engine is stoked and you’ve got that train a rollin’! 🙂
This is where it’s at.
Anon-onyourside, just imagine if that accident had happened to a non-Kool-aide drinker. That person would have hired a contingency based attorney and sued the C of $ for pain and suffering. As a minimum, they would have settled for $250,000 plus medical expenses.
Anyone falling into that pit could easily have been killed or paralyzed for life.
But because this guy is an OT 8 who would never sue the C of $ because of being declared an SP and disconnecting from all his contacts, the church of the COB knew they could just ignore him. If he woke up, he could probably still sue and get a great settlement.
It truly is unconscionable. But we’ve become accustomed to unconscionable acts by DM and his cretins.
This was the org that I got on lines at. Their original org was in disrepair but full of public in those days (1995). Clear announcements regularly and staff that cared about your bridge progress. When I used to visit them as an SO member in 2002 under the latest ED things were quieter. Still a fairly decent org though. Now look at it. Shiny new EMPTY building with no public to mess up the MEST. Makes me sick too that the “church” will ream your ass if you are behind on Income Taxes and deny service to you for any unpaid taxes yet now they are offenders.
Indy #375.
I just can’t help but remember the days when I was on staff, struggling to make it on the meager pay (having to moonlight to be able to buy groceries), but still holding strong for everything, for the hope of the tech, having experienced miraculous wins, wishing that for others. There was a lot of hope and strong purpose, then comes David Miscavige covertly behind the scenes…… these staff now beat the money out of public (thus chasing them away), the purposes have been so covertly altered gradually over time that the semblance of what once was is now gone… This is David Miscavige’s doing, those poor original OC staff members holding strong to the purposes set down by LRH are so beyond betrayed, I just don’t know how they will make it. Their kids are now recruited to join the SO and force this militant attitude down on you that they have been trained on (gone is the ARC).
Can you imagine the staff having to come up with that kind of money to pay those taxes and the militant attitude they have to take on the public further chasing them away?!?!?!?!??!?! OC org had it made in the old building that could have been upgraded and David Fucking Miscavige knew it and forced a move into something they can’t afford. This is no accident and is his plan to shut down orgs under the guise of “Ideal Fucking Mest oriented” orgs that no one can fricking afford. The staff will be so beaten down they will give up and escape and those wealthy public who support this will eventually be bled dry and escape (as they will now be required to donate to pay those real estate taxes), maybe never to be heard from again, I’m dealing with one now, this is Miscavige’s VFP – INACTIVE AND INEFFECTIVE SCIENTOLOGISTS WHO WILL CEASE AND DESIST ANY PRACTICE OF THE PHILSOPHY BY LRH.
Thank God for Independents breathing life into the fantastic philosphy and beings once again, thank you Marty for this blog! I have heard it said that “I disagree” with the way Marty is going about this but quite frankly, those who say that are doing nothing to expose the supppression and corruption, absolutely nothing. Peoples lives have been destroyed and at least here they can have a hope to pick up the pieces!
Haha.. Leave you alone…. Yeah that just doesn’t happen….they may back off for a minute …but the next day or maybe two days they are back at it…. Just a different tactic….. ” You MUST have an emeter… It’s new and blah blah blah…..only 5,0000 dollars…. “. Hmmm I’m not even on TR and O but I need an emeter TODAY? My husband and I were hounded mercilessly … They loved to separate us and say He wanted it or I wanted it….. I do sympathize with those that caved though…. The pressure is intense and they REALLY treat you like crap when you don’t give…. You feel like you killed a puppy or something even though you recently donated 1000 dollars a few weeks ago….. It IS abuse.
As I said the other day, this reminds me of when, back in the day, I was not allowed on the Flag Scam Base due to having unfiled income taxes, which was a “crime” according to the freakin’ holier than thou Flag MAA’s.
Tory, I’m sorry to hear this was your ex husband. I’m sorry to hear this happened to anyone. This type of indifference towards fellow man especially your own was the second crack I saw in my time at the CO$. Treating Injuries, misfortunes, even death as either no big deal or your own fault is not right. It’s not what LRH wrote about. Not anything I read anyway.
The above Facebook group was created by Wayne Froemke, who has publicly proclaimed KSW to be “an implant”.
If you are a 100% Ron Hubbard Brand Standard Tech supporter, I suggest you join “Indie Scientologists” ( http://www.facebook.com/groups/144249398986435/ ) Facebook group, instead.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Hello Friends & Fiends alike. Your friendly neighborhood Bed Man here again. I recently came across an article written by Boston University (Via Calcutta, India) Professor G’ta B. Fukiddinme pointed out that Chairman of the Cult David Mismanage appears to suffer from a serious case of “Rectal Cranial Inversion”.
Fukinddingme said, after watching the disastrous donkey punch of an interview from 1992 with Ted Koppel. That It appeared that David–excuse MR David Mismanage – seemed to not only be suffering from Napolean a complex & micropenis embarrassment. Add to those two, a serious undiagnosed problem of walking around with his head crammed so far up his own ass, that SO members are not able to find a place to pucker up on Der Fuhrer.
How bout those Jager shots Marty, Mosie
Rinder, oh God I have more questions……. make the voices Stop !!!!!!
David Mismanage – you suck really bad.
Bed Man Out….
Not Out, OUT. As in gay.
Not that Im NOT out, im just not out.. or gay
not that there is anything wrong with that
ahh $hit I gotta run after the 18 month old.
Keep up the good fight & as always
-TRUST WOMEN-
Dr George T or Wichita Kansas
Well when they get busy Flag picks up the slack….. I find it funny after 200 or so calls they started calling me the wrong name…. “Hey Lucy we just need you to fill out a marketing survey”. ???? I finally got them to stop the onslaught of mailings ….. I did get angry when someone tried to get my 9 year old daughters cell phone…. ( she doesn’t have one…. She’s 9 )
Nice discovery, Luis. I’d like to see the 600 people a day going into an “ideal Org”. I bet you that all of them combined don’t get 600 new people a day.
On the other hand, you provide a great product and great service to up to 600 people a day. And they keep coming back for more!
The church of Miscavige fails again.
Funny how the word pious is so close to P.O.S.
Sometimes I wonder if Miscavige is sitting back at night with a glass of Scotch and gleefully thinking “Wow, I can’t believe they actually bought this bullshit scam.”
I’m proud to say (and a little bit smug) that this idea struck me as completely stupid and blantantly wasteful from the first time I heard the projected renovation costs for my local Idle Org. Not to mention MESTY…
CommunicatorIC,
Why do you call your group Scientology? Scientology means “knowing how to know” not, “Question Everything”. Plainly your group is something other than Scientology.
I also like your line. “Ad hominems are not tolerated.”
You should have said, Ad hominems are invited but not tolerated.
Anyways, with your questions at the ready, I’m sure your reality will soon become the order of the day! Maybe.
That was very witty.
Wow… that is nothing less than evil.
LOL-What comes to mind is the FDS HCOB 7 Aug. 79, the section on the thesis-antithesis-synthesis philosophical equation:
“In other words, these two things collide, and neither one will make sense to him. At this point he can try to make sense out of the collision and form what is called a synthesis, or his wits simply don’t function.”
Interesting synthesis’ can come out of those crazy reg cycles.
Awesome! This is very much needed.
That’s an aspect I hadn’t thought of — utility bills. Having sunk all that money into MEST, it would have been a perfect time to show the world how CoS could be Green! To show care for all the dynamics, especially 5 on up. What a missed opportunity. Going Green could alone have drawn people in (okay, perhaps not on source, but to not go Green in an age of sustainability efforts stands out not like a Green Thumb but like a Sore Thumb).
More MEST, less people. To me the last location of OC Org was already “ideal” – spread out campus-like structure with lots of open areas surrounded by trees and closer to a well to do area of Irvine. It is unfortunate that so many people were duped into this “Ideal Org” insanity, but then if I was asked to donate hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, I would probably take the time to evaluate the rational behind all of this (i.e. policies that would apply to something like this, subsequent ownership and operating costs of the building, real level of interest of Scientology among the general public, etc.).
It is quite a mystery to me how Scientology parishioners were so indoctrinated as to override any rational and thorough reasoning on the subject especially that the people who had a lot of money must’ve had some wits to accumulate them in the first place.
Or not ‘join’ anything.
Dude, that definition of ARC under cob is absolutely hilarious! I laughed my ass off!
Unbelievable. I know people in New Haven. In fact, I know a guy who used his retirement funds to help pay the downpayment on the mortgage on that building back around 2003, and many others who used all their savings. And it’s sat empty for nearly 10 years, as Mismanage Miscavige kept telling them to “raise more money for the renos”. And now it sits in line for foreclosure.
The Connecticut field has been in apathy about the whole thing for years. It’s been sad to see.
+1
It looks like the continuance was denied on 9/27/2012 (after two years of continuances), and now the Foreclosure hearing is set for 2/26/2013. The next step after that will be public auction I believe.
Just a side comment to differentiate the value of ancient cathedral building from the current acquisitions and renovations – The cathedrals of the late middle ages were a repository of advanced (for the time) building technologies, artistic innovation, and mathematics. The projects trained and employed many for decades, even centuries. History, stories, culture was imbedded in the art during a time of limited literacy. The final products were valued communally and are still – 800-1000 years later. Cathedral building faded only when the plague decimated European populations and depleted the workforce and funds available.
I consider cathedral building to have been one of the more creative and economically productive eras of Western history. To contrast, David Miscavige’s projects are NOT significantly stimulating developments in mathematics, art, technologies, or global economics.
Leonore
In life it seems like anytime you come up with a way of doing something it is very difficult to just get someone to not change it or “make it their own”, because they know better. They are too smart to follow directions. Even I do this and a lot of the time I am smarteror more efficient, or more experienced etc. However- I have learned that on the important stuff I make damn sure I have fully duplicated and correctly applied something before I even think about “fixing” it. And I’ve never had to do it with Scientology except maybe some policy where I’ve decided it didnt quite fit with my business or whatever.
So I guess my question would be if the people in this group have completely duplicated, understood and correctly applied that which they are now altering or finding “not innerrant”. I dont see many guys who have done a full chronological study of the subject with a lot of practical experience with this viewpoint.
My point, exactly, Karen. 🙂 Gigantic buildings that now the PUBLIC are expected to PAY for. Arggggggh. I’ve gone by them on week-ends, when there is lots of “Body traffic” outside. Are ANY of the staff doing surveys, tests, anything? Nopa. What a SCAM.
Thank you, Sapere Aude, for mentioning this history. They both were “in”, supporting Ron, forever. Ron even mentions them on tapes: “Hello to Wing and Smokey Angel and Flo and Paul Bezazian”. Paul wrote to Ron and asked; “Why out of ALL those people did you pick us to name?” Ron wrote back: “Because you helped me keep Scientology alive in Chicago”. And they did, too.
They were just like the regular people in “The Master”. They did Book One and had hysterically funny stories to tell about the early days. I kept trying to get Gold to film them, especially Flo. They never would. I finally had to really think about it: Why would they NOT film her? Oh……………………….I get it. She’s in a wheel chair and in $cientology, that just is not Ok.
It is SO sad about Harold. He’s written huge lies about me on their hate page—but I know he’s been lied to and manipulated by Bill Yaude. No one should have to put up with this crap. I feel for him. He’s basically loyal to Ron. He never liked the Sea Org, he hated reg’s. And now? He’s married to an ex-SO Reg! Argh. If ANY of his friends read this, please tell him to just leave and go back to Chicago, where his heart is. I fear for his life, I really do. Thank you all. ❤ Tory
It is masonic, which has some pretty amazing thick walls.
So very true, Anon-onyourside! They did not stop him from seeking medical attention, but from what I’ve been told (by friends now out) he had no insurance then, and they lied and said they did not, either. GIve me a break! C of $ doesn’t have insurance? Puleeeeeeeease.
His friends told me they thought that IS why they got all his “friends” to disconnect from him. (Because ANYONE of them could have suggested suing). As a result—they all attacked him. Sick and true.
Thank you, Melissa. I’m so sorry for him, too. Losing a husband due disconnection was bad enough. Hearing he’s been injured like this, and this same group who has declared me “SP”, and done their “Fair Game” Crap on me for 12 years—- has treated him as bad, or worse is just awful. The fact that he’s stayed is true proof of mind control. I wish I could just shake him and fly him to Chicago, where I know he’d be happier. “church”? MY ASS.
Amen, Hapexamendios !
Hey Lordburg12—-let’s think about this one, just a minute. I have wanted to sue C of $ forever for the medical abuses they have done to me. (I have Epilepsy—they made me get off of my medication, and due to all the seizures in the 70’s, I have no short term memory). Also, I just HATE all the medical abuses they get away with. :sigh: But what IF we could find ***someone*** still in touch w/ Harold—-and they could get HIM to rightfully sue for this tragedy? Any thoughts? I’d love to see the guy get his rightful $$$ back. This is one sick story. If anyone has any ideas on this, please e-mail me at torychristman@yahoo.com (And OSA and YAUDE: FU!) Please just put in the subject: MEDICAL ABUSE, so I don’t miss it. Thanks and love ❤ Tory/Magoo
Micheal A.,
I think your brief post has the flavor of McCarthyism, or perhaps a “Have you stopped beating LRH yet, Wayne?” flavor.
People can change and they can change their minds, and can see the error of some past opinions. Wayne has been a constructive contributor on Marty’s blog recently; he made a point of admitting he was wrong in his initial judgements of Marty and has been quite supportive of what Marty has been and is doing.
In fact, is not KSW largely used as an implant and a make-wrong mechanism by the minions of Miscavige?
If you have a bone to pick with Wayne, I think you should do it directly with him and leave the rest of us out of it.
Precisely. 🙂
I remember the heigh days of the OC org, when it was in fact really booming because Tech was *In*, Ethics was also *In*, and the folks in the Course Room and around the Auditing Rooms were also smiling, happy, friendly, charming people. Anywhere you went in the Admin area, there were proper rudiments *In*. Auditors? I’m sure books could be written about the surfer rock superstars, indeed, but for sure one thing I remember: The Statistics were Up. And: they were REAL.
So true. You’d think that these financial geniuses might have invested a few hundred thousand out of the gazillions spent to cover the roofs of the buildings with solar panels in hot climates, and thereby cut down operating costs and be Earth-friendly. But no, they are more interested in glossy facades. Just like they are more interested in bragging and lying than simply delivering Scientology
Don’t give COB ideas. He might use it and you can bet it will still turn a huge profit for nothing. Probably have a donation drive to paint “Big Blue” green; got to be a couple of million in that. 😮
😀
Absolutely.
Do the squirrels kneel down before the bust or bow when passing it !
Is KSW an implant?
Well, it sure is ruthlessly shoved down your throat as the first item on every checksheet. Basically it says “it’s my way or the highway”. Or: “What is true for you is what I tell you is true for you.” The tone level of the PL is 1.5. It’s an enforced reality that oozes absolute “rightness”. It instills the wrath of LRH in the reader. It is intended to scare. “If you don’t do as I tell you, you will never achieve total freedom.”
Many of us bought this hook, line and sinker. Why? Because the technology seemed to be working and many of us did have incredible wins. So we became reasonable with the fascistic aspects of the philosophy, which DM then used to build his MEST empire.
Had LRH used a milder, more tolerant approach, the RCS wouldn’t exist today.
Spiritual Freedom is not something you can enforce. It is a self-determined, personal journey.
So is KSW an implant? Just compare the PL’s tone level with the RCS’s tone level and make up your own mind.
If someone were to get a piece of it , like a small chip of it they could sell it to the squirrels , because it would be a piece of the bust of the god David Miscaviage it would have magical healing powers to the squirrels , a small chip of it could be worth tens of thousands .to a squirrel .
Off topic: How “disseminating” raw public can come back and bite you in the arse.
http://www.oregonlive.com/money/index.ssf/2012/10/bend_dentist_fined_nearly_3480.html
Genius. Methinks the UK stand-up circuit would welcome you with open arms.
Wow that’s pretty significant actually. Well spotted Thetabop
Want to hear something funny about our Ideal Org down here in Sydney? Well, a few months ago the fund-raising slowed down to a crawl. Until then, every day we would get sms’s about how much we had to go. In the lift when you go into the Church, there was a little white board which had the number of dollars we had to raise. It was around about $768k to go the last I saw.
Suddenly, as the fundraising ground to a halt, the numbers disappaeared from the SMS’s and white boards. It was all a big mystery now. What was going on?
I asked a few questions and figured it out. The org is in temporary accomodation and has been for some years now. The current rent is $50k per month. Unfortunately the combined Gross Income from both Day and Fdn can’t cover it. So they’ve been making up the balance out of the funds raised from parishioners. But when the fundraising slowed, they had to take the signs down or someone would notice the numbers were going backwards!!
It is no wonder those Ideal Org fundraisers looked so stressed and wasted most of the time. Keeping all those parishioners in the dark is a full time job!
The answer is no.
Our motto is, “Question Everything.”
Hmm… That motto is entirely appropriate for someone first encountering a science which purports to have all the answers to life and our existence, but once a person has had long contact and study/practice with the subject, I’d think they’d have sufficient certainty on it, to know whether it’s questionable or not.
In my nearly forty years of study and practice of Scientology, I’ve questioned LRH’s assertions many times. I can only speak for myself, but I will tell you that on every occasion that I disagreed with LRH, I eventually discovered that his observation was correct. In time, I became certain on all that I had studied or practiced, and my trust in LRH’s observations is higher than what I’ve extended to any other person. He earned that trust.
Quite frankly, the man has never once lied to me, so I have little need to “question everything”.
Very true, Espiritu. “Delivering Scientology” …that IS a thing of the past, for the most part. Davey boys last session, Marc Headley told me, was in 1997! If that doesn’t tell it all, I’m not sure what does. At least Ron used the tech, no matter how flawed by then it was. (And don’t beat me up, please…..learn how LRH died, first).
Thanks for the data and the witnesses. ML.
Link works perfectly now. Maybe the CT website was down or something when you tried it.
The last thing that happened was 9-27-12 the judge denied a further continuance because of numerous earlier continuances, so now there is a trial schedule for 2-26-13. Also, there is a bank slated to be represented at the trial also – weird, because I thought that the chuch of scientology used cash to pay buildings – no banks involved???
Actually, the CofS encourages its STAFF to get Medicaid, instead of the organization taking care of them from the organizations funds. In other words, if you are staff (typically “paid” well below the poverty line and well below minimum wage) you better get Medicaid or you will effectively have no treatment.
But, your question is regarding a public person, not a staff person. The CofS does not give a rats ass what the person does – get Medicaid or whatever, just so the “problem” is not given to the church – it must GO AWAY. Probably this person would not seek Medicaid because you have to be pretty low income to qualify for it. The story says this person was/is a big donator and supporter of the church, so that means he probably will not qualify for Medicaid due to too much income sources. Or, if he does actually qualify because he is, in effect, broke, he is too embarrassed to confront his own financial situation and admit publically that he really does qualify for it. interesting that a public person who donates so much money to the CofS does not have medical insurance. Why not? Because in that wacko world, you are supposed to use as much money as you can beg borrow or steal to put toward the church, and getting your own self covered with medical insurance could possibly be viewed as selfish and holding back money from the church.
jsook, good suggestion about putting together an analysis of COST OF EMPIRE. Maybe some independent accountant or something could start putting together just a picture of US organizations and their property tax pictures. Amazing that you have to remember that as churches, there is no other kind of tax they must pay than property tax – which is in the public record, as far as I know – though it is administered by the county of location.
If anybody ever builds a bronze of that so-called cob, it will be ripped down with more fervor than Saddam Hussein’s was.
they don’t pay taxes.
Personally, I never read KSW as saying anything more (or anything less) than “Don’t try to fix what is not broken.” LRH’s rant was obviously the result of his being at wit’s end with some people altering tech for reasons best known, or not, to themselves, causing org stats to fall due to non-delivery, causing flaps, etc.
No matter how many times I’ve read it, I cannot find any meaning in it except “learn to do it the way I’ve written it, make sure you understand it and do it that way.”
I don’t have the reference to hand, but didn’t LRH himself say that he expected would-be Scientologists to take nothing he said on faith? That he wanted them(us) to accept anything he said only after we had confirmed it for ourselves? “It’s true if it’s true for you”. That seems like it could be stated as “Question everything.”.
Preaching to the choir. The Twin Cities org was about to rent a building for I believe $10,000 a month when I was on staff. I thought it was insane. It took us on average 6 months to pay the $1,500 we owed monthly to management for buying the building for us years earlier.. The new rental building was about 1,000 square feet a staff member. We actually had our building packed up for the move. The day the move was to take place the sale of our building fell through. I quietly danced the jig. This was all happening as the Ideal Orgs were being rolled out. Luckily I got out. Natalie Hagemo was one of the reason’s I disconnected from the church.
That is fraud ! How can they steal the money like that.
Scott,
Just to make things clear, the “Progressive Scientology Facebook Group” is not my group. My purpose is to facilitate communication between disparate groups (e.g., Independent Scientologists, Freezoners, Exes, OGs, Anons, etc.). I simply pass along and cross-post information I believe people may find of interest.
— CommunicatorIC
Hi! Would it be possible to have the date, hour and minuts to trace back the comment? I saw that is hard for me to do it without on my smartphone
ML, Didier.
And how you can know something for yourself without questioning it?
I refer you to the November 1951 LRH’s Logis numbers 6, 7 (corollaires), 8 and 12? And LRH’s définition of “integrity”, especially applied to study?
And what about the definition of “robotic” for him?
I think the point is to know if Ron has effectively reached the ideal scene for “The Tech” to “Total Freedom”, an absolute.
If yes, looks to me that we rather be careful that this tech will not change at any time because it could only result in less freedom for all of us, or a less rapidly reaching it.
If not, one can suppose he can improve it, but did Ron say it can be? Just read it, but I don’t think so, even these discussion on these KSW looks to me forbidden by the KSWs themselves as an “interprétation” of the tech, so, how to go out of this mess?!
ML.
And how you can know something for yourself without questioning it?
I refer you to the November 1951 LRH’s Logis numbers 6, 7 (corollaires), 8 and 12? And LRH’s définition of “integrity”, especially applied to study?
And what about the definition of “robotic” for him?
I think the point is to know if Ron has effectively reached the ideal scene for “The Tech” to “Total Freedom”, an absolute.
If yes, looks to me that we rather be careful that this tech will not change at any time because it could only result in less freedom for all of us, or a less rapidly reaching it.
If not, one can suppose he can improve it, but did Ron say it can be? Just read it, but I don’t think so, even these discussion on these KSW looks to me forbidden by the KSWs themselves as an “interprétation” of the tech, a “high crime”, could be, so, how to go out of this mess?!
ML.
Yes, that is the point, I think: it’s one’s own reality of the subject, of is workability, of its efficience, that gives the believeness that Ron has came to an absolut, and so, decide to apply as much as possible KSWs, and that if Ron said that nobody else could improve the Tech, well, one’s bet it’s true.
Somewhere else he wrote about “integrity” and what worth the best: what we observe or what he said. Could be at the time he wrote about “integrity” he has not acheived an as much level of certainty on what he was doing and a “complitness”, a “totally workable tech”.
Personaly I see no offense to my integrity if someone I can trust because of his demonstrated skill and level of of ethic, tell me that “this way is safe, and that way not”.
But to be frank: the Tech could work perfectly and could apply in anytimes, it doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be improved in its days, but does it worth to try to do so when we can plainly satisfy oneself and others with the present results…
A comment on “question everything”, I don’t think it’s a case of questioning something that works for you so much as being receptive to new ideas and alternatives. Some may work better for you, some may not or some may work just as well and what works well for you may not work as well for someone else. It’s about being open minded.
Technical Dictionary of Scientology, 1989 edition, définition n•1:
– “a standardization of processes so that they apply to 100 per cent of the cases to which they are addressed”.
Thank you, iamvalkov. The “Wayne said” comment here caused others to leave my group without even investigating why I may have said that. It accomplished what was set out to create. Sadly, for me anyhow, it resulted in creating a paranoid “fire first, then aim later” knee-jerk response from some Scientologists, and caused them to not look.
The very fact this comment created such knee-jerk response tells me there is something there. It’s reactive, not analytical. Just because of this alone shows the matter deserves serious rational questioning, instead of no discussion at all.
And yes, I support Marty 100% in what he’s doing. He’s doing a sometimes unthankless marvelous work. I understand that feeling.
thetabop, excellent points, and its exactly this I’m trying to point out.
I’ve noticed with some Scientologists, the word “implant’ tends to make them go “eeeek!”. It’s a highly charged word for some.
The definition of implant I mean is definition 3 in the Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary, “an unwilling and unknowing receipt of a thought. An intentional installation of a fixed ideas” (SH Spec 83, 6612C06)
I could have easily used the word “inculcation” if I knew the word would be looked up.
Whether it was LRH’s intention or not to use KSW as an implant doesn’t really matter. KSW was certainly used as an implant by others, and the enforcement of it created undeniable abuse on others. If it wasn’t for KSW, David Mayo’s Advanced Ability Centers would likely still be around and thriving, IMO. If this had happened, and Scientologists had the Freedom and had alternative places to practice Scientology in 1983 (like there is today), perhaps none of what has happened since would have happened.
The fact that there’s so much HE&R over KSW behooves one to question in this area, doesn’t it?
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with questioning everything. The fact that many Scientologists never did, put Scientology in serious danger, and it killed the church.
Mayo ain’t around precisely because he adopted your way of thinking; that is, it is all ‘over there’, or in other words ‘my why is what someone else has done.’
In spite of the consistent antagonism and invalidation in your comments directed at me, I still love you. 🙂
Pingback: Purchasing North Korean Children for the Sea Org | OTVIIIisGrrr8!
Pingback: Geleakt: Das Immobilienreich des Psychokults Scientology im Rahmen der „Idealen Org“-Strategie … | Blog gegen Scientology