Licking Bathroom Floors

Let us not forget the depths of depravity of the criminal mind that micro manages every move of Scientology Inc.  From the testimony of 17-year Captain of the Flag Service Organization (the ‘Mecca’ of Scientology Inc.) Debbie Cook Baumgarten, given on 9 February, 2012 under oath in the Bexar County Texas District Court:

1 Q. (BY MR. JEFFREY) When you were in Los Angeles
2 with Mr. Ginge Nelson, what happened that you observed?
3 A. Okay. He was — he originated that he did not
4 agree with physical beatings or the — this room, this
5 locked up — you know, these executives being locked up.
6 And for this he was beaten up by Mr. Miscavige’s
7 assistant. It was — her title is a communicator. And
8 he was also beaten up by two other guys that were there
9 in the meeting with us, which was Henning — I can’t
10 remember Henning’s last name and Francois De Jeust.
11 They were two pretty big guys. And he was actually
12 taken back into a room and he was beaten up physically
13 for a couple of hours.
14 Q. Anything else happen with Mr. Ginge Nelson on
15 your trip to Los Angeles?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What was that?
18 A. He was made to lick the bathroom floor clean —
19 well, lick the bathroom floor for over — it was like at
20 least a half an hour.
21 Q. Did you ever begin to receive or were you ever
22 the recipient of any violence?
23 A. Yes, I was.

21 Q. Did you ever begin to receive or were you ever
22 the recipient of any violence?
23 A. Yes, I was.
24 Q. And describe that for us. Did it begin all at
25 once in full force or did it begin in small ways?
1 A. It was — it was small ways, different —
2 different incidents of it. One time I was called into a
3 conference room and asked some questions and he ordered
4 his — his secretary to slap me. And she slapped me so
5 hard I fell — fell over into the chairs.
6 One time he — Mr. Miscavige ordered his
7 communicator to break my finger if I didn’t answer his
8 question.
9 Q. Was anything done with your finger?
10 A. It was bent back very hard. It was not broken.


Please, if you have a conscience and a few moments, pass this testimony along to anyone you know who may still be supporting David Miscavige’s crime syndicate.


95 responses to “Licking Bathroom Floors

  1. The more I read her account of what went on it sounds like a scene from hell.

  2. Absolutely it’ll be passed on!

  3. David Miscavige lives and has lived a life of pampered luxury and extreme extravagance for 30 years (as well reported here). So, when you see him order his juniors to carry out this sort of sadistic behavior, please understand it within the proper context: he is NOT a lifetime suffering monastic figure requiring obedience and servitude of other monks. He is not a marine Sargent instilling discipline. No. Not at all. He is just a sadistic little f**k that wants to hang people with piano wire and watch them squirm to death as Hitler did but he can’t do it because our civilization passed laws against such behavior. DM’s only feeling of remorse regarding all this, is, “those bastards passed those laws and left my torture victims still alive to testify against me! Those dirty bastards!!”

  4. I hope Debbie and Wayne took a lump sum because miscavige’s
    very bad karma will dry up the scientology cash flow in very short order.
    George M. White

  5. It is amazing how this criminal can go on. The money he takes off the Squirrels who call themselves Scientologists, is for sure being used so that the US government “looks the other way”
    It is a shame, and goes to show how money and lobbying “bend” the law and justice,

  6. Freedom Fighter

    Screw “What is Greatness?”. I hate these people (Miscavage and his cronies). Yes. Hate. May they burn in hell lifetime after lifetime ad infinitum.

  7. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Sending it out to all my contacts.

  8. Marty, I have been following your blog for quite some time now, and I have to say that it is getting quite old. Do you have anything positive to say? Have you addressed suppressive alteration of Scientology materials in your new book? I think this is the most important issue that every Scientologist needs to be aware of, and this is something that can be verified. Abuse is not as easily verified or even believed except for those eye witnesses that were actually there to observe it, and in the end – really – who cares who slapped who? Are we going to have true Scientology available for future generations or not? That’s what I want to know. How can we put original works by Ron Hubbard back into print so that peoples of this world can know what Scientology really is?

  9. I’m sure you know Marty, there are some of us who spend pretty much all our free time making those who need to know about this, aware of it. Trouble is, there are those who don’t know or are vaguely aware but refuse to believe it, and those who do know and obviously agree with it. I don’t know if you saw what happened when I confronted Janet Laveau’s (of OSA) SO son on security detail last Thursday – but it’s a pathetically familiar story:

  10. I am “out” of the “Church” now, even though I prefer to use a pen name. Recently I contacted a koolaid drinker who has been friends with me for 30 years. I said I could no longer stand Miscavige’s insanity and was now an Independent Scientologist, and that I’d like to talk to my friend about it. My friend wrote back “That’s too bad” and then put in a “sad-face” emoticon. I knew this meant that I was now being disconnected from. Another friend, on the other hand, was willing to have that communication. The whole “us and them” thing (in terms of people in the cult and people out of the cult) is standard cult behavior.

  11. My experience with Scientology was brief, about a year in the early 90’s (Success Through Comm course, about 20-30 hours of auditing that I actually got for free because I was helping an auditor-in-training). While I don’t agree with the religion I appreciate this website and people who celebrate their faith without the shackles of a leader who rules with fear like DM. But my question is this, and I never really could find a clear answer to it. What would happen if one (a Sea Org member) simply said “I renounce membership in this church and I want to leave the base now. I refuse to sign any papers or go into confinement. I simply wish to leave”. Would they be physically prevented from leaving? I’ve read harrowing tales of people (in my opinion, damn brave people) leaving in the dead of night, scaling fences, etc. but I always myself can’t they just insist on leaving through the front door because to hold them would be kidnapping? What am I missing?

  12. I also meant to add that koolaid is one helluva powerful drug. They simply won’t allow themselves to look. They know things are f***ed up big time but they still bury their heads in the sand.

  13. I see. “9 February”, and your brain glitched and hit a “9” for the year. NP.

  14. Mark Ginge Nielson was one of the nicest guys and I can see why he would not agree with the abuse of beatings and physical violence. Knew him from when he worked at External Comm in the Clearwater CMO where he used to pick us up and bring us to the airport along with our tons of luggage; having lots of conversations on these trips.

    Henning Bendorff was DM’s tall and skinny golden boy, Art director and awarded a mini Cooper for forwarding the DM insanit and the creator of the tall pillars of the Int events and book covers. Thus it is no surprise of his and Francois De Juste (asst Director) thug and attack dog mentality.

    Anyone still supporting DM needs to raise their confront of evil to see that they are part of the latter group.

  15. Anon-onyourside

    I have sent it on. Question: Tom Cruise is apparently suing a magazine for $50 million for saying he had abandoned his daughter. Without addressing that specific issue, isn’t disconnection a form of abandonment? Wouldn’t a case like this mean there would have to be testimony on disconnection? I don’t think David Miscavige is going to be a happy camper over this one!

  16. martyrathbun09

    Miscavige can help you out with all that. Good luck.

  17. Blog postings from approximately Sept 09 – PT

  18. Pingback: Licking Bathroom Floors « 31 Factors

  19. He didnt disconnect from his daughter. He has joint custody. I don’t see how there would be any testimony about disconnection.

  20. Anyone, ANYONE, who has read of the abuse initiated by David Miscavige and is still standing behind that man, is equally responsible for it. Is supporting it, contributing to it and endorsing it.

    I know this may not be easy to digest as this does not align in any way with the mention of “What we expect of a Scientologist” by Hubbard. However, is it a situation.

    “What we expect of a Scientologist” is not applicable in today’s Scientology arena. What you can expect of a Scientologist under David Miscavige is more or less the opposite of what you could expect of a Scientologist thirty years ago.

    Where does Miscavige fit within “The Aims of Scientology”?

    “We respect Man and believe he is worthy of help.”

  21. I suggest you stop “following the blog.”

    And do you have anything positive to say?

    Clearly, you didnt even READ Marty’s first book, and though you may “follow” this blog apparently you don’t read it either. I will tell you who cares who slapped who — anyone that has a genuine concern about human rights… I take it you think people should be abused and that this should be ignored because exposing it and talking about it “isn’t positive.”

    You are either a troll or hopelessly theetie-weetie. Or both.

  22. Wow! What a horrifying story! I was a staff member in the FSO from June 1978-1980. There were some fights but I never had a senior as sick as DM! LRH stated in an FO that SO members should be trained in judo and weapon handling. We trained in Karate ( the small group that I was in) We worked out a lot and no one bothered us like that. Sometimes we’d work out with the pubic who were on lines at the time. A really great martial arts expert (Dan DiVito) who was on his N/OTS) WAS A PERSON i WORKED OUT WITH ( SPARRED WITH) A LOT. It would have been good if DEBBIE were at least trained in Akido and the rest of the crew. DM should be shot!!!!!!!

  23. Just sent to Tom Cruise (or at least one of his people).

    In TC’s defense and yes, in corporate Scientology’s defense, I am not personally aware of any policy, written or otherwise, preventing a parent in good standing from seeing their underage child (when they have the legal right to do so) who lives with someone who has been declared or left the Church. I doubt TC has disconnected from Suri nor do I think any other parent in good standing with the Church would do so in a similar situation. IMHO this is simply bad reporting by the press.

    Marty: I think you should know that the number of Sea Org members who are now getting pregnant, leaving and having their baby is straight up & vertical. This is no doubt due to the work of you, Mike and others. This is easily verifiable by looking up the names of recent Sea Org members who have left and are now on Facebook as public with their new offspring.

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    HCO BULLETIN OF 10 JUNE 1960 Issue I
    Keeping Scientology Working Series 33

    ……………………… Make a good sound living at it, drive a good car, but get your job done, handle and better the people you meet and bring about a better Earth.

    Scientology is the only game on Earth where everybody wins.

    So let’s help the world win.

    —L. Ron Hubbard

  25. And here is David Miscavige ordering a Sea Org member to lick the bathroom floor with his tongue. Worse, the guy does it.

    And here is a lot of other madness floating around in the “Scientology” arena that has NOTHING to with getting a job done, or making sure everybody wins.

    It is not Scientology . And these people who are only setting others up for losses are NOT Scientologists.

  26. I like to use the domino theory. If you keep communicating you will eventually contact those that are ready to “fall down”. Some dominoes are more key than others and some dominoes or close to other ones that can only contact the ones near them. You get the idea. It will all work out in the long run as long as we all keep communicating.

  27. Are we going to have true Scientology available for future generations or not? That’s what I want to know. How can we put original works by Ron Hubbard back into print so that peoples of this world can know what Scientology really is?
    Me too.
    But I want Miscaviges crimes exposed, too.
    He took control over the church for his own benefit and did destroy the legacy (works, teachings, family, goals) of LRH and the lifes of hundred thousands of parishoners.

  28. “…and in the end – really – who cares who slapped who? ”

    Wow! Do you also rip the wings off insects while they’re still alive?

    What a weird comment.

  29. Henning Bendorff – Art Director my ass. He’s about as artistic as Albert Speer at his worst. Bendorff is merely a bought and paid for thug — owned property of David Miscavige.

  30. No way has Cruise disconnected from his daughter. He may be a jerk, but not in that way. The gossip rag mags really get it wrong some times.

  31. Marty: I think you should know that the number of Sea Org members who are now getting pregnant, leaving and having their baby is straight up & vertical.

    Fabulous news Kevin!

    And to think that some people accuse this blog of being entirely negative 😉

  32. You know, I have accepted that “anyone can be manipulated at any time” and that a majority of us could fall prey and not even realize it until much much later.

    That why when I tell friends or family stories about dm & Co$, I actually find myself defending the rank and file members, I am constantly telling people just how “great & positive”, most C0$ members are.
    (full disclosure – i am basing this off of stories Ive read and people ive followed online–i have never met a Scientologist, in person, that I am aware of)

    Ive come to believe that while Co$ members, while not quite a microcosm of society – most of them, are generally good people and trying to “do their part”.

    Ive always tried to put myself in people shoes. I try not to judge & boast about what “I would do” in the same situation.

    (It was amazing to me, just how many “heroes” would have saved that kid from Sandusky in the showers, it great to think that the guy who actually DID walk in on it, is the ONLY guy who was scared and didn’t know what the hell to do, I am relieved to know he is the ONLY person like that in the world)

    I even understand how you can get caught up in the culture of something.
    Violence, Group confession, survival of the fittest,
    I like to think i understand it and try not to pass judgement, too often.
    There are also times though, where I think simple common sense is taken out back and violated sexually multiple times.

    But, after everything I have said and all the times I have played devils advocate for rank and file Scientologists, how any person could EVER think anything other than- “fuck this” -when you see an officer or anyone else for that matter, “being forced to lick a bathroom floor”.

    Other than spitting in someones face, I can think of nothing more disgusting and more demeaning. I mean if you allow yourself to accept “licking a floor” or accept “being spit on”. You will never feel human again, you will be a coward of the lowest form and subject to constant humiliation by the masses. You are weak and you will not find strength for a very long time.

    I dont say this to be cruel – i say it because I believe it.

    My kids (17 & 2) have been taught to think & make decisions for themselves with a some guidance from Mom and Daden – but also that there are consequences for EVERY single action. Positive, Negative it doesn’t matter there is always some kind of consequence.

    While my oldest knows I do not condone using fists to solve arguments.

    But, there are 3 reasons that you absolutely MUST fight:

    1 – if you’re space is invaded and they are about to hit you, hit them first
    2. If someone spits in your face.
    3. If someone is about to hurt your family

    My point is, the Mrs and I are constantly preaching non violence & chatter over batter.
    That just because you strongly disagree with someone, there is no reason to EVER get physical with someone during a “verbal disagreement”
    But I am a realist & I tried to think of every single “situation” where by, when faced with the situation, you MUST fight. Those listed above are the only reasons I could muster at the time as ABSOLUTE – as in “honey, if any one of these things happens to you, not only should you fight, but you MUST fight, there is simply no other way.

    i.e – 1. if you see someone showing the signs of aggression towards you and you know they are about to attack you, attack them with everything first, it may be your only chance.” 3. “your little brother is being picked on at school, you better back him 100% and protect each other”
    or 2.”if someone spits on you and you DONT fight back, it will kill you inside and you will be subject to constant harassment and humiliation” – even if you fight back and lose, you will have won because you’ve shown them that you wont be easy. Every bully wants it EASY. If someone fights back, there is always a chance the bully will fail and he knows it, he wants it easy, he wants the ones who dont fight back.

    Never once – not EVER did I think to tell my daughter “someone forcing you to lick bathroom floors is a no go too. Yeah, you re gonna have to swing for the fences on that one too”

    Who in the F*** comes up with this kind of bullshit?

    How in the hell does a group of people, who call themselves “Free Thinkers”, allow something so incredibly non human to infect their thoughts? Why doesn’t evolution or common sense dictate itself over something so damn blatant?

    Sorry am I making ANY sense here? OR do I sound like a babbling internet kook, trying to be righteous.

    I mean I try and I think I really understand how things happen and how good folks can buy into “group mob” mentality, Ive even seen it in action.

    But, I am at a freaking loss for this one : licking the god damn bathroom floors!

    I dont know this guy that it happened to, but ill bet you, that a year prior, this person was KSW & this guy was On Point and working hard for his church and his beliefs. He has really bought in to everything. And NOW – Now he licking a toilet.

    How in the F**K any person rationalizes this in their own head, is absolutely unbelievable.

    The Bed Man in OKC

  33. A door would have to be opened in some way to let the discussion of disconnection come in. But he has joint custody so this does not have anything to do with disconnection.

    Having said that, I am finished with Blown for Good and have read Hawkins Book, finished Inside Scientology, am reading Scobee’s book. There has to be some way some theory of a “class action abuse” case. I realize it is hard to prove when most of the people who are there are saying no this is not true e.g. Anderson Cooper’s show with the wives. But one really needs a gym after reading this stuff.

    It is just incredible how people will do what they are told no matter how hard it hurts their families. I am speechless. The story of Amy cleaning with no sleep for days on end and being raped at 14 and the story covered up. It is too late for that kind of a case. I better just stop. I digress. Its beyond the pale.

  34. I, for one, care who slapped who and why slapping exists and who is the SP that is near this area causing slapping, punching, licking germ infested (yuuuuckkk) bathroom floors. And who is declaring all the good thetans that I know who have had the courage to leave this nut farm. I cannot imagine anyone agreeing to do follow someone who could order this type of punishment. Before licking anything someone would have had to kill me first.
    I would love to be face to face with that little gonadless runt without all his sycophantish security guards and let him experience my personal rath especially his destroying the lives of so many good individuals and their families .

  35. Public record to be seen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever go away! Hell yeah, I’m passing on!

  36. Reblogged this on My LRH.

  37. Where does Miscavige fit within “The Aims of Scientology”?

    He fits right in the first line. These aims cannot be achieved until he (an insane criminal who prevents the able from prospering and denies rights to the honest) becomes a footnote in history:

    A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights….”

  38. Listen if you are drinking the Kool aid, you just disregard any critique. Its predictable and not surprising. The power of control on the individuals are great. I have attempted to talk, about the things I have found on this blog, to my mother on more then 10 occasions. She never wants a debate or discussion and just says ok.

    She is that afraid, to lose her route to freedom. Thas why she cannot, express any opinion. She buys, that her route to total freedom, lies with CO$. Once you buy into that, how can you be anything but trapped. Im my personal opinion, its hard to be less free then this.

    You have to understand, they are programmed to never look, at any information stream other then COS, David Miscavige and the PR events.

    So my only course of action, was to tell her about David Miscavige and his deeds and the IAS funds ect.. Get it drilled in, so that when the situation arises, she will know she is being backmailed.

    This was my biggest issue, because she would be send to slaugther by David Miscavige and the IAS crush reg. I have been around the SO for 20 years and know how things work. My love for my mother is to strong, to let he continue to bankroll David Miscavige, so that he can to buy $5000 suits, $2000 shoes, 5 star meals and enjoy living standards equilivent to Donald Trump.

    Let me be honest, I would love 10 minutes with David Miscavige and I would tell him straight what I think of the guy. Listen We as SO children, were on quite some occasions, taken out of school, becasue the org couldn’t come up with the money.

    While my parents were working 14 hour days, 7 days, a week. The PUNK David David Miscavige( please write his entire NAME, then when people google David Miscavige, this blog will show up) was sitting pretty on over 1 billion dollars in reserves.

    Then again the speed talking moron, has a eighth grade education level and is doing quite well. So school is of little importance to him. His broad knowledge of the world, comes nicely across in the church statements to the press.

    I am sorry I just have no respect for the guy!

  39. “…and in the end – really – who cares who slapped who? ”

    That attitude is exactly why such things have continued unabated for years now.

  40. Exactly. AND you don’t know which person who has received the same communication from indies for months and years is FINALLY at the point to say —

    That’s it — I’m done.

    It takes persistence without make wrong …

    Love the domino video Tony!


  41. I see this going planetwide!!!! Sending to all my contacts!

  42. Actually Mike according to what I’ve read, he has sole custody HOWEVER he has very liberal visitation rights. That was part of what was so amazing about this divorce — she was given what she asked for — sole custody and therefore he won’t have a say in Suri’s education

    As for disconnection — and the lawsuit — like you, I take everything in the tabloids with a grain of salt. Perhaps the sole custody was not true?


  43. Yes, Bless Debbie Cook for memorializing this story to public record!

  44. Now everybody piles up on LTC Forever with insults flying around and Texans busy reloading their six-shooters. LTC Forever is not DM. We hate DM. We don’t really give a flying hoot about LTC Forever and the back side of a size 13 shoe currently protruding from his or her mouth. The concern so ineptly expressed by LTC Forever is dear to many of us. DM had not just altered Tech but also created in many ways an ever widening divide between the actual Scientology and the Church of Scientology which very likely may result in the baby being thrown out with the dirty bath water when CoS is wiped out due to DMs crimes. True Scientologists are now broadly propagandizing the idea that Scientology and Church of Scientology are 2 different things in order to save Scientology. I think this is what it is really about.

  45. You are making perfectly sense. Don’t worry.
    If you are a slave and you think that Miscavige is god and that he decides about your eternity, well, then you start licking the floor probably. Because you would have lost your common sense a long time ago already, in order to become a slave.
    The moment you accept that your passport is taken in, that your freedom of movement is seriously restricted, that you have to work long hours for almost no pay, that moment you are a slave (by international criteria, by the way). Signing the sea-org contract turns you into a slave at that moment. And the master can do what he pleases with you. And you have to obey his orders.
    Some people like to be slaves. It is sad, but it is reality.

  46. LTC Forever (Look-Think-Communicate Forever). Entheta is always unpleasant to confront, and maybe you have that confront, but perhaps its a bit out – R for you, or you have EP’ed on it and want to move forward or whatever. But let me make my point. If you look at the people who post on this blog from 2009 onwards, you might notice a changing and increasing audience. Miscavige’s brutal treatment of others is a symptom of a sick environment, but not everyone can see the symptoms. Before 2 March 2012 I did not know that Debbie Cook was not in the Sea Org anymore. (I only know her from the videos shown at events and Flag magazines). I did not know that Mike Rinder had left. I have a busy life (as do many others) and it did not even occur to me to go look on the internet to see if there was anything to see. My bad, for sure. But when I read Debbie’s email, read her testimony, read this blog (and caught up with everyone else for whom it was old news by years already,) I could immediately see the truth of it. And then I could not stop looking.

    I was in the Sea Org for all of about three months in Joburg. Soon after I arrived, a mission was fired into Joburg, and one Berndt Mottl (? spelling)arrived at muster and gave us nine kinds of verbal hell. I was new. I thought it was a joke or a TRs excercise and was doing my damndest to keep my TRs in. Only when the whole CLO AF left the room in silence and fear, did I get that it was real. I was posted to OSA where I discovered that I was not fighting to protect the good and decent religious principles, but was involved in some pretty crappy internal upsets. I decided not to waste my life “swatting flies” and left. (And by the way, I think Berndt Mottl was actually a pretty decent guy, when I spoke to him one on one. I had no personal gripe with him, but I did not like the militaristic approach).

    Anyway, that microscopic (by comparison to others) experience was enough for me to have complete R on what goes on, and how it must be in the higher orgs. It is important that information about the abuses is published repeatedly. You never know when someone new will see it. And the request that everyone forward the link to whoever they know is a valuable one. I thank the universe that someone told me. The whole reason that Miscavige settled with Debbie was to stop the dissemination of that information. If publication is stopped, he succeeds. One of the reasons that Debbie may have been compelled to settle is because the eyewitnesses to those events are under his control. In that way, the Church had the upper hand, but the settlement was not about the Church – it was about Miscavige. We know Debbie by her actions. She carries a lot of credibility with scientologists. But a judge is a different story. Miscavige knows he had a fair chance in front of a judge who has to weigh up the “he says, she says”. But he had NO chance in the court of public scientology opinion. He had to shut down the story for his OWN sake. We cannot shut up about it, no matter how unsavoury.

    What Miscavige is doing is intentional and deliberate. We know him by his actions. But we first need to know those actions before we can get it. It is important for the sake of getting the whole picture. And it is important for the sake of individuals who are at the receiving end of his abuse. It must stop.

  47. Anon-onyourside

    People who gave so many years and so much of their life to the CoS and then had the courage to leave, should never apologize for it or accept criticism for it. I know from similar experience. Your attitude should be, “I did it to try and help humanity, instead I was used and abused, I am no longer a victim, and I will not accept anything but support for the hell I went through and the strength it took to leave and rebuild my life.”

  48. Sunshine Disinfects

    Christine I have sent an email to the address you gave me about a week ago. Hope it arrived!

  49. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    That’s Laveau’s son??? No wonder the poor boy is so messed up.

  50. Anon-onyourside

    I see. I am sure it is very upsetting to people who have left the CoS, and have been forcibly disconnected from their children, to see Cruise getting joint custody. Cruise is a public figure, therefore the defamation laws are different, there has to be actual malice, that is, the magazine had to know the allegations were false. So, just to speculate, unless the magazine backs down and settles quickly, their defense could be, “we did not know the allegations were false because Cruise’s church requires disconnection, and we did not know he was treated differently from all other members of the church.” If that is their defense, there would be testimony. I don’t think Cruise abandoned his daughter, and I don’t know why a magazine would subject a child to this, but Miscavige has ripped children from their parents, and perhaps this the case where those stories will be told.

  51. Michael,

    I hear ya. I hate to take my “nasty” out unless totally necessary but his comment pushed a definite button for me and by the way, I don’t “hate” anyone, not even DM. I would not allow such a negative emotion to eat me up inside.

    No, what I have a problem with is how LTC Forever phrased his comment. I understand the pile on but I am not a frequent contributor here so I am sure LTC Forever is better known to you.

    Maybe he could rephrase it without being so callous and cavalier? When one makes a comment like, “…and in the end – really – who cares who slapped who? ” what kind of response does on think one will get?


  52. When its all said and done! Deebie Cook accepted blood money and left Marty out to dry. She went through hell, but trust me, she is not the only one. Many others, started out with no money including myself. I saw the pictures on her blog, living or vaccationing in something that looked like paradise. I mean there is no way, your finances are that good post Sea org.

    So I don’t know how I feel about her. She took the money. If you take the money, then why bother being in the sea org? Doesn’t make any sense.

    She should be beside Marty and Mike in this. But she was for sale.

  53. Miscavige is a Psychopath.
    Better understanding is read” The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout

  54. LTC Forever,

    After following this blog for quite some time, I had the same feeling: it was getting quite old. It means we got used to the idea the Co$ has become an abomination and it is time to move on up a little higher.

    How to move up a little higher?
    I wrote down
    ¤ My goals for Scn (including my own bridge, and how to take responsibility for both the positive and the negative).
    ¤ My talents and areas of expertise (knowledge).
    ¤ My security needs (including my dynamics).
    Based on the above I designed some plans.
    Based on these plans I designed my own statistics.
    Based on my available time for these plans and projects, I set up the optimum time period for auto-reporting the stats.
    I also set up a (bigger) time period for periodic re- evaluation of all of the above, for improvement or change as needed or convenient.
    Finally, I started to apply the Scn ethic conditions.

    This time is critical for you: you could move on up a little higher, or just move on.
    I hope my above write up may be a good outline for you to start moving on up a little higher.

    Regarding Marty:
    ¤ He is using his talents and areas of expertise (knowledge) the best possible way to gradually keep moving up Scn higher. He is dedicating his life to diminish the negative (Co$) and to raise Scn’s positive.
    ¤ For a lot of people the info in this blog is and will be new.
    ¤ Thanks to him (an others), independent Scn people can start doing positive things without fearing the Co$ would squeeze them down like in the past.
    ¤ He is not throwing the baby with the bath.
    ¤ Etc., etc.

    My best wishes to you ↑

  55. +1. Wendy, well stated!

    LTC Forever, In addition to what Wendy wrote, – how can you actually be sincere in stating concern about the suppressive alterations of the tech and not be concerned with removing the suppression from the technical, administrative and public lines of that group. The same person behind the suppressive alterations is behind the abuse and mistreatment of well intentioned beings.

    The freedom to be, and the freedom from the application of the tech will only exist when you take the responsibility to ensure it is available. As to your question about the future availability of the true tech – it is here and now in the Independent Scientology field. Those, not under the hammer of evil are right now moving forward to help people.

    As Wendy has stated we know him by his actions. You can’t have the real LRH unaltered, while leaving the driving force for those alterations in the position of power unfettered and unabated. The communication of the truth of the suppression is done for enlightenment of those that need it. Unsavory, maybe, but still a necessity.

  56. Yeah, sort of a good theory, though doubtful any court in the United States would allow someone to make that argument as it necessarily requires inquiry into religious belief and practice. And speculative too — like “you didnt have had an abortion because you are catholic and catholics dont believe in abortion….” “Though we saw you with your daughter all over the media and you told us it wasnt true that you abandoned her we knew that you SHOULD have disconnected from her because that’s what Scientologists do….”

  57. Anon-onyourside

    Hmmm, perhaps you’re right, I’ll have to rethink the disconnect testimony issue. It is too bad when a magazine refuses to address the monster in the room, Miscavige, and instead makes themselves the issue by getting sued for defamation.

  58. Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  59. Li'll bit of stuff

    What other answer fit’s this little f**k’s actions, than appropriate retribution? I bet there’s more than just
    a posse willing to use that piano wire on him?

  60. Li'll bit of stuff

    Fully duplicated! Excellent post ,Wendy!

  61. threefeetback

    All wusses in sheep’s clothing.

  62. Right on Mike!

  63. ” and in the end – really – who cares who slapped who? ”


    I care. And if you don’t, you belong to the same sociopath club as Little Davey.

    If he had slapped you, your spouse or child or fellow worker, would you honestly say that you didn’t care?

    Please answer.

  64. To people under radar, please send this to your contacts, under an anonymous name, if necessary.. This reaches a whole new level. I think you (under the radar individual) will have a far more impact forwarding this then coming from an “SP”.

  65. Boy did you strike a nerve! This IS addressing the suppressive alteration of Scientology materials, HCOPL 29 Apr 65 ETHICS REVIEW, “Note that none of it carries any physical punishment or detention”. And there are hundreds of instances of such and witnesses. I don’t know if you have any children, but god forbid should some monster like DM or his monkeys slap and degrade my child, it would be all out war, you have to think close to home if you cannot find the compassion for those who have suffered under this suppression. Anyhow this is but one reference by LRH that is against physical punishment or detention. There are many brilliant people who post here that can provide further references I’m sure, but hopefully you get the idea, that this is one of the grossest alterations of LRH tech and is giving Scn it’s bad name as a cult.

  66. Marty has the right to complainaboput little davey. The only question I have for Marty and Mike is why didn’t you hit him back? Remember the Code of Honor? This very important point. “NEVER FEAR TO HURT ANOHER IN A JUST CAUSE” LRH From the lecture The Code OF Honor LRH said< "Anywhere where you have had any difficutlty in life you have violated one or more points of the the Code of Honor."

  67. To Mary, another reference is “ETHICS THE DESIGN”” Section on finding a nine ft. high board fence. Remember that one?

  68. Spot on Mike!

    People have been physically and emotionally abused within the razor wire of missanalcavitie’s HQ for years.

    Slapping was just the foreplay.

    Vic Krohn

  69. Another Layer

    Jay – Not related to this thread, but I studied with Danny way back when – do you have his current contact information?

  70. (sigh) what a waste of piano wire…

  71. Divide and conquer.

  72. I think Rinder said it all. Now I have thought long and hard and deep about the subject and I want to respond maturely with a follow up of Rinders response by saying

    “Suck it”

    Maturely yours

    Bed Man Okc

    Troll somewhere else LTC – kick rocks

  73. Tell him Tony De –

    Hey LTC, Ill bet you have overdue library books !

    Oooh in your face !

    In your Face !!


    Truly yours, stuck in the 80s,

    The BMO

    Sorry guys, started the Jager early

    Cheers and Beers !



  75. @TONY DePhillips
    great analogy and cogs have to come when they come for people. We can’t make the mistake that there is some mass group handle which will make everyone see…ya know, like “Operation Z” and other such BS.
    Everyone will cog on Scientology with one action..weird! NO, it is one cog at a time. Cog to get in. Cog to get out. The first one takes awareness and interest. The second one is harder because one has to look through the false data, lies, invalidation, betrayal, and so on before the interest for truth is developed. What a revolving door!

  76. Let me guess, whatever Marty gives you, you seem to need so much more? “Must be contributed to”? Did you find the book of scales yet? The one where you “Must be contributed to”? Geeze Christ, you are just like David Moiscavige.

  77. “Present me with unedited books”….

    YOU go find them and work on that, how is that? Instead of demanding that someone give you something YOU want, how about YOU take over the librarian hat and make it go right?

  78. Last week, I sent the video to OSA and selected friends in my area as part of my declaration of independence. I am translating it into English now and will post it on this blog. Stay tuned.

  79. Please do not hate. That is them shape shifting you in to a negative. No No NO do not hate. Have no ill will. This is succumbing to the invitation. Do not get sucked in to the motivator flow. Use only what is necessary to survive. Be yourself and the red carpet will roll out for the best of us. It would take a lot more than “Earth” and David Miscavige, to unmock us. A person really can only unmock themself. I mocked me up. Only me can unmock me. For real, David Miscavige does not have the power to unmock anybody. He only has the power to convince others that they should unmock themselves. Just say “No”. Or, “Fuck off you little witch bitch.”

  80. This posting ” Licking Bathrooms Floors ” (ref Debbie Cook ) Its low and degrading and appauling, The story connected to it ( Not Rathburn posting it ).
    Just how on earth as a exec she tolerated it is beyond me.( She had gunts in the end to speak about it, but left it way to late, as operations still seem to carry on regardless of her opening some flood gates for the investigation that took place and she speaking in court , which laid no where .because IN PT DM still seems to get’s away anything. as he so pleases.
    The result from that was Debbie cook / locked herself away and DM is happy (another one got silenced.
    How on earth in her position as she had, could this just be swepted
    and allowned to carry on without it being caught in action at the time it would have been pretty hard to cover up if it had be exposed and seen by authorithies at the time which it should have been. I mean she came across as a pretty smart cooky, but she didn’t get it stopped earlier enough and he got the better of her in the operation whilst she at the time remained in terror obvilously. It just beats me.

  81. This was relayed to me by a young woman who left the SO about two years ago. She was checking names of her former SO friends on Facebook and was amazed to see how many had left the SO in the past year or so to raise families.

  82. Another Layer. I do not know where he is today. I have not heard anything about him since way back then. I did a Google search a while ago and came up with his name realted to a martial arts event in Vegas, other than that nothng. He is a wonderful guy and instructor.

  83. Negative?
    The Group Dianetics Session works pretty well.

    One of the things which made me look was a SO member friend of mine, who told me that he left with his wife (CLO Europe) because his wife was asked to have an abbortion.
    He had to read the DN Book, what he did in one night and then, after getting the data on abortion, refused. They left and they have now a beutiful girl.

    I couldn’t believe it back then.
    How could the organisation in charge to run the church ASK someone to have an abortion. This was surreal for me.
    The same friend told me about beatings and slapings from CO CLO Walter Kotric. Not himself, but it was common knowledge that this occures from time to time at the CLO EU base.
    Knowing the “ethics gradients” I was like dumbfounded.
    This is Black Dianetics I thought and I started to observe the scene down the “command line”.
    But it wasn’t before I listened to women who actually where forced to have an abortion without asking her husband, when I realized that this very organization is trespassing the point of no return.

    I wonder what Miscavige (junior) will answer should he once be asked if he “helped”.

  84. Li'll bit of stuff

    Machete then? Guillotine? Noose? ‘chair?
    All too good–huh?

  85. Freedom Fighter

    “Fuck off you little witch bitch.”

    LOL! That works!

  86. LTC Forever,

    Def: Moron: A very foolish or stupid person.

    This statement would be something a moron might come up with:

    “Abuse is not as easily verified or even believed except for those eye witnesses that were actually there to observe it, and in the end – really –
    who cares who slapped who? Are we going to have true Scientology available for future generations or not?”

    You certainly qualify as a moron! Reread the definition of ‘integrity’ and the ‘Creed of a Scientologist’ and then work out in clay how you will “have true Scientology available for future generations…”

  87. Another Layer

    So true! Thanks.

  88. Oh God, this is just disgusting. But the perpetrators will ultimately go the way of ALL dictators; it’s inevitable. DM obviously hasn’t learned from history.

    IEG x

  89. Pingback: Celebrity Centre: CO Dave Petit and Toilet Tech | OTVIIIisGrrr8!

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