While we have been out of the Church of Scientology since about 1998, and have been on the Indy 500 list since just after its inception, we have not told our story until now.
Vic did the Comm Course in 1968 at ASHO, and his first event was the grand opening of the first Celebrity Center, hosted by Heber and Yvonne Jentzsch. We met in Chico in 1974 and Vicki was introduced to Scientology in 1976. Vic went on staff at the Chico Mission in 1977 and we were married later that year. We moved to Sacramento so Vic could work with the GO (Guardians Office) as a volunteer working on various social reform programs including Citizen’s Commission on Human Rights, and American Citizens for Honesty in Government. Vicki worked as an RN supporting the family financially while Vic was working with these groups.
We moved off lines around the time that the Mission Network was crushed and de-dinging started and did not get back on lines until these activities had ceased.
With law suits and other threats creating very serious problems for the church, Vic joined staff at the Sacramento Org working in the local DSA (Director of Special Affairs) office there doing PR and then became the Director of Special Affairs (local org Office of Special Affairs rep ). He was one of the first fully hatted DSAs . Vicki continued to support their family by working full time as an RN while working part time in the DSA office. Vic was frequently fired out by OSA across the country on missions to handle a variety of situations. Vicki kept the home fires burning while managing her job, the kids, and the finances, as well as being part time on staff.
In 1989, Vic was recruited to work in a special unit dedicated to keeping the churches open under increasing IRS pressure. One of the outcomes of this unit was the establishment of Citizens for an Alternative Tax System (CATS), a group working to replace the federal income tax with a national sales tax. While working as the ED of CATS, he lived in crew berthing in LA on the Pac Base for a year while Vicki took on his DSA post in Sacramento. This was a particularly trying time for the family as Vic was in LA, and Vicki was supporting the family financially by working full time as a nurse, managing the kids, the house, and holding the Director of Special Affairs post (winning the Birthday Game many weeks).
With all of this going on, Vicki was crush regged at the org after she got off post to put a second mortgage on our house. This went into the late night hours on more than one occasion even though she had to be back at work very early in the morning as a nurse. And when she replaced herself with new staff on two separate occasions, so she could move to LA to be with Vic, SO recruiters ripped them off, as well as our 12 year-old son. After about a year of this situation, Vicki and our daughter moved to LA to be with Vic and be closer to our son, who was now stationed on the PAC Base.
While life was better after that, it was becoming obvious that all was not well in the church.
One of the first big negative indicators was when Vic was asked to go up to the church’s international headquarters to do a video with David Miscavige promoting LRH’s idea of a national sales tax to replace the income tax. He noticed that the staff at Golden Era Productions, where the video was filmed, was in pretty much a constant state of fear. It was obvious who they feared and caused warning bells to go off for Vic. Also the clearance checks which were required for Vic to go up to Gold were very weird; imbedded with questions which seemed paranoid to be blunt.
In order to meet the corporate requirements (IRS provisos making substantial political activity a disqualifying factor for church tax-exempt status) for such blatant political/economic reform activity, CATS needed to operate independently of the church. It was a constant battle to keep CATS activity off of OSA social reform lines. OSA Social Reform, and even the PR Bureau execs kept wanting to count the production of CATS (e.g. media interviews done, political allies made, etc.) as part of the PR and/or social reform network of groups. This seemed silly since it would collapse CATS into the church and create yet another IRS tax code violation.
With the end of the battle for church religious organization exemption, an IRS-COS settlement was announced at an event in Los Angeles. At the end of the event Vic was approached by then Deputy CO OSA INT Linda Hamil about whether he wanted to drop CATS or continue on with it. In large part because he realized it would be a way to move further off church lines, Vic indicated that he wanted to continue with CATS.
With a move from LA to the DC area, Vic and Vicki were able to find an LRH HCOB which allowed them to get their son routed out of the SO and he joined them on the east coast. By 2002 they had faded into the background and had only occasional contact from church officials (usually from OSA). The only exception to this was the myriad of blocked calls from church staffers trying to sell us the Basic book packages.
After this gradual withdrawal from the church, our entire family began to live happier and more productive lives. It wasn’t until June 2009 that we suddenly started getting numerous calls per week, and even per day. Vic started to wonder what was going on and did an internet search and found Marty’s and Mike Rinder’s interviews and the St. Petersburg Times article, “The Truth Rundown.” Shortly after that both Vicki and Vicki registered on Steve Hall’s Indie 500 list – numbers 71 and 72 we’re proud to say.
Now we savor our freedom and enjoy our children and their children as they lead happy busy lives.
So many amazing people have helped us on our journey out of the darkness which has become the cult of scientology. In addition to Marty and Mike, their wives Mosey and Christie, Steve Hall and Jim Logan, we have also had wonderful support from our dear friends Ken and Yvonne Schick. And there are many more in the indie movement who have given us encouragement.
And a recent trip we both made to visit with Mosey and Marty at Casablanca Tejas has made the present even more enjoyable.
We wish this freedom and joy for all of our friends still in the church’s clutches. Yet we understand that some may not be able to confront becoming free or are trapped in one of the many mind games the church currently uses as a substitute for actual LRH technology applied with the intention to help.
Finally, it doesn’t matter whether you are a church member, independent scientologist , or former all-of-the above, Marty and Mosey, Mike and Christie, Ken and Yvonne, and Steve Hall and so many others are there to help folks on their road to freedom, despite whatever obstacles may be placed in their paths. And for this we are particularly grateful.
Wow! Great story!
Vic and Vicki!
Great to hear from you guys. = more theta then entheta.
A very good thing. Thanks.
Cece (SO AOLA 1977-1996)
I sincerely hope guys at the church get this right. It’s better to live with honesty.
Otherwise, I have honesty with my earth, floods and fire around here which is not to bad in camparason and much more predictable. I.E. above 1.1
Thanks you guys for the good news!
Wow!!! that is a story!!!! congratulations to you for finding truth and freedom!
Welcome and may you continue to flourish and prosper!
What a smart couple you guys are!
And BTW – even with no income, I’m packin my bags and going to get to Marty’s somehow. It’s kinda a ‘we come back’ thing for me. I just don’t think anymore that I can do it alone — I’ve been trying. Too much self listing from the stuff instilled over those 35 years. Try as I might – I need some help. My self-listing comes up with ‘no’ item and no relief.
I try to stay ‘exterior’ to the problem but it only lasts a few days IF I go on 4 mile hikes.
I miss my job in the SO (I LOVED it) and I miss my friends and my family.
The putting it all in prespective is what will bring sanity and let me go from there.
Thank you for listening
PS My son told me on 20 October ’12 that if I post with my name on Marty’s blog [again], he will have to dissconnect. Well so be it. OSA – do your ‘job’ and phone him. Let’s get it over ASAP.
And don’t forget I have 3 daughters and an X. Tell them too.
Im going home
Wonderful post! So glad to see you have arrived here, and I am looking forward to hearing more from you.
Vic and Vicki — so glad to have you as part of our 3D. I could never adequately put into words how much I value your friendship. You are both kind, intelligent, friendly, stand-up guys. And that doesnt do you justice. It’s always a pleasure when we cross paths, hope it won’t be too long before it happens again!
Dear Vic & Vicki,
Welcome to The Bold & The Beautiful —The Indies!!!!! You are demonstrably good people! Wonderful to know that
you are all doing well, and have now made the declaration
official. As for so many of us, already having made that
ULTIMATE statement, I’m sure it will afford you a newfound
power base, to as-is the pedantic cult moves with ease!
Looking forward to the contributions!
Calvin B. Duffield
Durban, South Africa
Indie 500 # 301, Decl. Mothers Day 12 May 2012
Love seeing happy smiling faces! Thank you for your story, always love reading peoples stories about their personal journey out of Miscavige’s trap. I too wish for freedom and joy of our friends still stuck in the CofM trap.
You gotta try his spicy pickles…they are the real deal, just as these 2 are.
Glad to read your story! Hope we will meet someday.
Thanks for sharing this , Cece !
Here’s something to have & to hold on to. Simple, Powerful:
………………….” ALL THINGS SHALL PASS “……………………
Very well done you guys! One more bullet in DM’s foot. Welcome.
We love you both! Mike and Laura Wilson
I’m out now but am using a “handle” because Davey’s goons have recently hacked my email address, are trying to get into my facebook account, etc. Nice going, Midget! Keep those donations coming!
Vic and Vicki, Welcome! What amazing products you have gotten. And VVWD that you could look and see and spot the outpoints and out ethics and you eased your way out. So good that you got your son out of the SO too! Your story is powerful.
Thank you Calvin. As the tears roll down my face.
I well remember you from AO. I’m still under the radar but I’m glad to see you here. You were always theta.
Yes Calvin, and every single ‘bad’ thing turned out so good!!!
Yes, yes. Now how is that? Karma. I heard about that. Must be true ’cause I’m inside perfectly happy. It’s just the going fishing thing I’m I’m having a hard time at – I just want every one to be happy.
Welcome Vic and Vicki!
I totally agree with your value of freedom outside the cult. As I said on my FB post announcing to all my friends and family that I was out, “The future looks very bright when you know that you are free.”
Hey Marty or Steve you should start another list:
Title: Pledge to Disconnect from C of S and DM
People can put their full name, aliases, initials or any combination thereof
or another possible title:
The Pledge to Withdraw any and all support for DM and C of S
It will be a good thing to do because it will give more people confidence to get out of the wrath of DM and his perverted ways of perverting policies and messing up LRH’s great tech. ( Like 3 swings of a needle or having barbecues, etc)
Its time to really DISCONNECT and WITHDRAW
Thank you for your kind words. It sounds like you are still going through it. At Marty’s suggestion, we have both read Viktor Frankl’s book Man’s Search for Meaning. We both experienced almost instantaneous relief.from the BPC related to our time in the CO$. It is a quick read, profound in its message, and provides an avenue for insight that is invaluable. Vicki for V&V
Well there are more pickles where those came from! I will never forget the zebras! Vicki
Yet another two valuable Beings that the RCS has lost. Their loss is the Independents gain! Vic and Vicki – yours is a story which reveals your abilities, your confront, your care and your courage. May you always flourish and prosper – and then some!
Hi Cece, didn’t you live in Alaska once upon a time?
Cece – that is so sad. I hope someone can help you as soon as possible.
Your words are so eloquent, gracious and kind. And they continue to help us all heal and move into new, positive directions.
We get all excited whenever we see you with your family: just like when we get together with our kids and grand kids.
And for the next time we see you guys, I am putting in the request now to sit down and get some snuggle time with Jack.
Vic for V&V
We love you both too!
You guys should come visit and we can have a good ol’ time.
Hi Vic and Vicki. Nice to see your smiling faces again.
When the group no longer stands for truth and freedom, one has the right to leave it to its own devices. So glad you left with your family intact and your honor and integrity shining.
Thank-you and yes getting our son out (back) was a huge relief.
Vic for V&V
Your son is a jerk. Cece’s son, if you are allowed to read this, you are a jerk, and are hereby declared by me, Mark Patterson, to be a jerk of the highest order. If your mom was a psych, you would not be ordered to disconnect – but, no, your mom is an SO vet who could use your help. And what do you do? Push her down. Cuss you, man.
Cece – I don’t know if we met when I was at AO, but thank you for being there. I totally enjoyed my ride at AO up the OT levels.
Wow, the cream keeps rising! The real VFP of the church is Indies. All we need to do now is get rid of the via.
Thanks for sharing your story – seen your postings on this blog and it’s great to put a face and background to those. Hope to meet you at the next reunion.
It is a pity that the CATs idea which would benefit our nation and finances didn’t succeed, perhaps it will in time.
What a lovely photo – two gorgeous couples, enjoying an Autumn evening. Welcome to the land of the free, Mr. and Mrs. Krohn. Every good wish for a happy and fulfilling future for you both.
Dear vic and vicki,
Thankyou,for your story,i wish you ALL the best in life.
Great post Vic and Vickie-You guys devoted your lives to the Church with incredible sacrifice. You may not get the appreciation from the selfish crazy Co$, but you will get it from us-Thank you.
Way to go Vics. Nice writeup.
Of course Forrest. 1952-1972. Sitka. Paradise.
Hi Forrest. Thanks for the ack.
V & V, Great to see you with M & M!
Thank you for all that you are and all that you have been. Thank you for helping!
Thx Vicki (V&V) – I’m thinking I too will solve this with exactly what caused it (including me).
I’m still working on Marty’s books.
I will come around.
Thanks for the support.
PS I know it would not have happened if I did not agree to some degree. Makes perfect scense! I jotted that book down for my next library order. Thx you both and happy for you guys!
Get to Marty’s and you will get back to normal. Good luck! 🙂
That’s a good story. Congratulations on your move towards freedom and welcome to the group.
Nice to hear your story V&V!
My wife and I have always enjoyed your company at the parties.
What a thrill to open the blog page and see those 4 smiling faces together. You already know how very happy I am that Vic and Vicki know the joy of being among the indies. For the benefit of others, I will add my opinion that these are two of the finest, most caring, most intelligent, individuals you will ever have the pleasure to know. Thank you Vic and Vicki for being our friends and for your very generous acknowledgement of us.
Can the Cult hack your emails? How do you know if you have been hacked? Is this legal if they are hacking?
“The real VFP of the church is Indies. All we need to do now is get rid of the via.”
GH, We both laughed loudly on your VFP and certainly also agree about getting rid of the via…
Welcome out Vic & Vicki. Thanks for all the work you did to make this planet a more theta place
That’s fine, Cece, because you’re going to make it,
Out of this OP context, but in this blog context.
Geir Isene has posted a blog post titled “Amazing person: David Miscavige”
Maybe some readers of this blog would like to comment there …
Wow to both of you!
Vic, hang time with you is living lightening. I relish every minute. I’m very happy to have you as a friend and colleague in this wonderful adventure.
Back at you!!! We both “leaked” while reading your comments. It’s just what happens when you are fortunate enough to reclaim your thoughts, emotions, and friends. And you and Ken are truly wonderful friends.
Can’t wait to see you guys soon.
Vic, Vicki, Marty, Mosey, and all you good folks,
You are beautiful people.
Thank-you for the kind words and we look forward to the next time we get to be with you and your clan.
Vic for V&V
There’s a very similar (if not identical) group out there called FairTax which is also lobbying for the same thing I believe. Maybe Vic has more data…?
Good luck Cece. I wish you peace and light. Please be strong and be well.
Great to be alive !!!!!
2nd time you have acked me over the last few months and my very few postings. It will be fun to know you again. Thanks Obnosis.
PS Guess you missed the fun when I was sent to RPF 2 times. I don’t think I was very ‘theta’ then. I had more like a toddler temper if I recall correctly…
Video all over the local news here with a highest ever viewing on the hurricane Sandy and Obama enroute for Las Vegas event with Eva Longoria!
“Vic, hang time with you is living lightening.”
HA. That’s just because I fooled you with the old mirror trick.
One thing’s for sure: we love ya’ and look forward to the next time we get together.
Vic for V&V
Oh sweetie, my heart aches for you. Do what you need to do including those 4-mile hikes. Of course you need help. There is no need to endure this alone. Thankfully, there is a large community here that wants to help. I am very glad you are heading to Marty’s. You will be in good hands. I wish you well.
V & V sounds like a double VIC-tory to me! Welcome to the bright side!
Well done brother! Do you still do anything regarding a consumption based tax system? I think that would definitely be a great solution for what we have now.
Great story – quite the adventures lived! Congrats on seeing and now living in the light to you both!!
Are you the gal that audited me at the AOLA in 2002-2003?
Or as George Harrison sang, “All things must pass.”
(album happens to be playing here right now.)
Cece, I am SO sorry about your son, and l do fervently hope and pray and postulate that the tragedy of forced disconnection is soon completely in the past.
Wish I could give you a big hug in person right now. Here is onevin spirit.
Love to you.
Nice! I love that trick. Thanks for reminding me.
Can someone hack your email? Yes, but this usually means they got your password by guessing or some other means. One protection is strong passwords and regularly changed passwords.
And yes, hacking email is a crime. See for example http://communications-media.lawyers.com/privacy-law/Email-Hacking-Is-A-Serious-Crime.html.
There is a growing educational field of computer experts dedicated to “white hat” hacking — knowing how it all works so they block attempts from criminal intrusions. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_%28computer_security%29#List_of_White_Hat_Hackers.
At times I use various configurations of firewalls to protect networks. You would be amazed at how many times someone tries to penetrate a typical network (I’m talking home, not business). At one point, my security was detecting dozens of efforts daily to get into my computer network. The attempts had IP addresses that usually traced to China or North Korea. If you are getting probed it is not necessarily OSA — it could be someone wanting to springboard off your computer to conduct illegal business that would then look like it came from you while the true source is hidden.
If you think you are getting hacked or someone is attempting to, I encourage you to study up on how to protect yourself and get good security in place.
Local 5:00 news Scientology flap video available now.
Good to hear from you.
5:51 minutes Prime Time!
Geir’s observations of Miscavige, as well as those of another poster there who worked at Flag at one time and met Miscavige in passing, help explain how Miscavige has been able to fool so many people for so long, and has remained “top dog” in the CoS.
V&V – “Verve and Vitality”. Thanks for posting your story! Truly this blog has become “the gathering of the clans”.
OT3 Materials on the 5:00 news! Scientologists are not allowed to see it, but all of Las Vegas is! Hey, David, don’t you think it is time to move on to plan B? How much more are you gambling on sucking out of this before you are popped by your seniors on your Org Board? You are really pushing the envelope! Your GREED will be what causes you to lose it all.
What a store, V&V! Welcome to the party… officially! Glad to hear you went to see Marty & Mosey and came away winning from the experience.
Many people can hack your emails. Anything that can be done with technology can always be understood and controlled. Hubbard was a hacker, he hacked through the reactive mind. How hard do you think it is to hack into someone’s email? It’s like taking candy from a baby. The biggest tech scam in America is the “dishwsher”. Oh what a mystifying God! Well, it does not wash dishes but most people just don’t want to believe it. Frankly, you have to wash and rinse your dishes and use it as a final sanitation for the high heat. It does not wash dishes for people until you get into restaurant supply status with the steam. Then they still have to be rinsed so why not wash? If people can be sold on dishwashers they can be sold email accounts. Which are very fragile. People write software these days to do it in no time flat. Do you watch television and see how the cops get the emails and Google searches out of people’s computers? Now, …………. the cops are not exactly techies. 🙂
Beyond that, you should never ever take a disc from someone else and stick it into your computer. It can rip everything and when you return it to the giver, they have everything off your hard drive. Unless you have no obligation to return the disc. Even then, software can be on the disc that communicates to other computers. Usually someone has to have access to your computer overtly or covertly. Reversely, there is security software that can kill your hard drive AND anything on it if someone other than yourself even opens or turns on your computer. Frankly, considering the investment into In Comm staff and the backwards technology of the emeter in itself, I wouldn’t worry about the Church getting over on you with the science. 🙂 As far as legal, if you give someone else a disc and they stick it their own computer and then return it to you, it was all legal. Especially if at the time they thought they were stealing information or data! Once you have hacked into someone’s computer like that, you can track them and their emails and all activity until that computer dies. I doubt if most people know they have been hacked unless it is identity theft that surfaces with financials. The best thing to do is keep it all clean so that someone hacking into your computer wouldn’t affect you. Tracking devises can also be installed on your computer like a lo jack, so that your whereabouts can be tracked as long as your computer travels with you.
Do not leave your laptop in hotel rooms where others might have a key because they checked you in or paid for your room. IF you must carry anything on your computer that you can not live with out that you must protect with your life, there are TONS of security gadgets with keys pass codes etc you can get. There is a computer security convention in Las Vegas every year that is a massive wall to wall event at the convention center. And it is all for government employees. For your purposes, TRUECRYPT should be fine.
Hey Vic and Vicki, You guys are a true class act and have really paid your dues. We are lucky to have you guys. I’m very proud to know you and consider you friends.
Well said. Welcome Viv and Vicki.
Welcome! Loved reading your story. Living proof that the best “revenge” against a suppressive group is to flourish & prosper after you’ve left them behind.
if you have Earthlink as your ISP, you should assume that OSA has access to your computer. Earthlink was founded by Scientologist Sky Dayton and there are still a number of Church members working in their tech division.
A couple of years ago I documented the fact that someone at Earthlink was interfering with email messages that referred to certain anti-Scientology sites. The interference stopped, at least temporarily, after I reported it to the FCC, but I have no illusions that means OSA has decided to play nice.
No Penny, I left on LOA (leave of absense) to care for teenage kids that needed me.
Actually Jenny D V kicked me out – gave me 15 mins to gather up my ‘stuff’. 24 June 1996.
What a nut house!
Which I somehow agreeded with?????
None of that would have happened IF we (us guys there in the mad house) did not somehow AGREE.
My values have changed.
I can kick anything out of my life I don’t feel in agreement with. That is my right and that is why I live in the United States.
I don’t NEED a policy by Ron for that.
Here I am – 60 and having the time of my life! (on the outside)
No kids came by last nite so I put the pumpkin (with candel lite inside) on the hood of my truck and a crazy as me friend tossed out the candy from her side as I drove by all the RV spaces we knew kids lived at. They will be very happy in the morning which is comming about now.
Gotta pack my bags now.
It’s morning and I’m gonna make some peppermint tea. I pick it and rince and drop it in the cup. When the wistel blows on the tea pot – ummmmm
Frest mint tea! I’m really so lucky and am a millioniare. Cause a millionaire does not have friends like I have and the data and wins Ron gave me. Thank to Ron. Standing ovation for you, your work is carried on sir. Thank you for all the hard times you went thru for us. And to MSH also… he may have never gotten so far without you. Thank you.
Thank-you ls. I’ve spent the last 15 years up to 2010 teaching technology and engineering courses and coaching in public high school.My energy and focus have been in the education reform arena.
Consumption forms of taxation have numerous advantages over the present system. I believe that CATS helped bring up public awareness on this point.
Thanks for asking.
We feel the same way about you. Can’t wait for the next time we get together!
Vic for V&V
That was the words from my 25 years husband – the love of my life – he said to me “No one makes it out there”.
So I thought.
And watched the tradegies of our civilization….
And I came up with….
No one makes it IN there.
I warned him – pack your & your wifes bages and just gooooo.
If you have no where to go, then head to the hills (Griffith Park). I slept many nights in those hills. Sometimes if the Greek Theater was playing you could just curl up in the hillside and smell the earth for a few hours. And Be ME.
Ahhh I’ve lived a very nice life dispite any thing else.
I gotta pack my bags and secure the rig for travel.
I’m going home.
Ron said: “We Come Back”
I can’t yet get his adress….
Guess I will simply ask the nearest PI chuckel
I just have to say – hey all, the OT III materals will not ‘kill’ you.
IF you have questions after watching just clear them up by asking and don’t stop till you get answers… don’t stop asking.
One who ‘knows it all’ gets no more knowledge.
You see you don’t? That’s OK. The door is open. Just be you.
Just go into your local indi and it will all make scense.
Thanks To Be And To Cummicate… as You Do Both 🙂
OK, just start driving toward Texas. Keeping reaching; Marty will respond and guide you there.
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