Last year I regularly referred to the 199 day siege upon our home in Ingleside on the Bay Texas by David Miscavige and Scientology Inc. Last month we discovered what we thought was evidence that extended that siege to two years, see David Miscavige – Cowardice and Paranoia. We reckoned the siege at two years because a Scientology Inc. agent responsible for the operation of the surveillance outpost at 201 Bayshore Drive (the green house noted in the linked post above) let slip that Scientology Inc. PI Monte Drake had leased the outpost since November 1, 2010 (the day we moved into Casablanca across the street). Well, further research determined that, in fact, Drake has been leasing 201 Bayshore since November 1, 2009 – one year to the day before we moved into Casablanca. This revelation was discovered while an employee of the cult was being interrogated about the November 1 2010 date coincident. “No, Drake moved in a year before you moved into your current home”, was the plea in defense of David Miscavige’s domestic terrorist squads. And proof of the November 1, 2009 move-in date was produced to divert attention from the domestic terror operations. However, the defense turned out to be a further admission; in fact, proof that the domestic terror siege has been in place since at least November 1, 2009. Further inspection of 201 Bayshore Drive, Ingleside on the Bay Texas proved that out. If you wish to follow all this, you will need to read all the posts linked above, and then carefully watch and listen to the following video:
Additionally, former Scientology private investigators Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold disclosed that they arrived to Ingleside on the Bay in February 2009 to ‘case’ the place in order to up the ante on the operation that Monte Drake had already begun several months before, (See, The Rest of the Story – Scientology Inc. Spies.) That brings us back to late 2008 – Four Years. Since Drake has put in writing another three year Scientology Inc. financial commitment to 201 Bayshore, we are looking at three (and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to then extrapolate from that commitment, Four) more years.
Now, there is a silver lining in all this sickness. That has to do with advice that I have regularly imparted on this blog over the past three years. That advice was predicated upon my prediction, and perception, that David Miscavige had made a terrible misestimation. That was that Miscavige’s obsession with me was playing right into the expansion and guaranteed survival of the independent Scientology movement. Miscavige was so obsessed with knocking out whom he had so criminal-mindedly labelled the kingpin (yours truly) that his micro-management compulsion required all available OSA (Office of Special Affairs, the terror and propaganda wing of Scientology Inc.) resources be focused upon me and me alone. My advice was, and is, that given Miscavige’s obsession, the best thing people who were concerned about the future of Scientology could do is to start delivering. Set up and produce to your heart’s content, knowing that Miscavige and Scientology Inc. are all tied up in a war against an enemy he has conflated, and virtually created, as all-powerful and all-important. What we have disclosed about the over-the-top, spare-no-expense operations in our little hamlet over the past three years (including the revelations about surveillance outposts over the past month) is validation of my estimation and advice. There has not been a single report of OSA harassment or operations against other independents or freezoners for more than a year (but for the perpetual infiltration attempts and whispering campaigns). The focus of all of Miscavige Scientology Inc war resources is here. It can safely be assumed it will remain here given recent events and the trends they portend.
So, again, my sincere advice to you is, get busy and build a better Bridge. The previous one has become a rather sad, cold-war era relic. It is devoted to fighting an enemy that does not exist – at least, despite Scientology Inc’s unlimited ‘intelligence’ resources, does not exist in any form resembling what Miscavige estimates it does.
Please take advantage of this historic, horrible misestimation and misdirection of Scientology Inc. resources of destruction.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Pingback: Four More Years | Martyrathbun09's Blog
“All warfare is based on deception. … when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. “
– Sun Tzu, the Art of War
I am so glad you found your calling as a writer, Marty. You have quite the journalistic flair for headline writing. 🙂
And, yes, you deserve immense thanks for the cover you provide to FreeZoners and Independents. For what you have done to create a new space for Scientologists to practice their religion freely, thank you!
Fantastic post Marty! Dave’s case only means Indies shall indeed flourish!
Richie. 😉
Marty,
Believe it or not—I’m truly chuffed that you share these insane
miscavige “Marty” fixations– with us! We have the ENORMOUS power of LRH’s number 1 tool, (AXIOM 28) to take the whole bang shoot to pieces! Kudos to you in using selected tools from the
Scn Toolbox, to simply confront and deal with this madman!
We can and will play this out, exactly as you advised;-
……….BUILD A BETTER BRIDGE! (indie Style, of course!)…………
Plus, plus,plus! You already know—we’re ALL 100 % WITH YOU!
Calvin.
DEAR MARTY
No Worries,im already working in wakeing people up,i will get trained,and help more people,as many that want to be helped,Marty if their is anything we can do to help you,here in brisbane,Australia,DO NOT HESITATE TO
ASK!
Marty, I think if you had a tripod stand and a slightly better camera (with a better zoom) you could zoom right on those cutout slots and see the camera. I’m only mentioning it because I think it might be a good idea to document this evidence as clearly as possible.
I’m not an attorney, but I have to believe that this operation is not legal.
Yo, Opie!
Just because other independents are not reporting harassment at this moment, doesn’t mean they being watched by some ‘faithful’ church member! Miscavige may have enough private investigators to watch Marty, but he can’t watch everyone. Of course, you never know who is writing up weekly knowledge reports on you. ” (but for the perpetual infiltration attempts and whispering campaigns).” Always watch your back.
Everything you say about D.M. is true Marty .
What I want to see is a FULL ACCOUNTING of all the money
that parishioners donate to the IAS and C of S
Is that so out of line? where does all the money that is supposed to Clear the Planet and save Africa really go. I mean Screw Super Power and the release of OT 9 and 10, fuck all the million dollar paint jobs to the Super
Power Building . To Hell with Daveys hand made John Lobb shoe collection, I dont care if he wears Ruby Slippers and T.C. has gift matching His and His handmade copies, Fuck all of that. I want a full accounting from a legal independent firm that is made PUBLIC by Court Order,
NOW GOD DAMMIT.
Mad as Hell and not taking it any longer. Mr. Short Fuse
Chris, no need for a camera in *those* windows with the cut-outs in the blinds now as they face a place Marty no longer lives.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Building a better bridge might include some confront on internet auditing and the many successes that come with it. It seems like you have been willing to keep what you consider “standard tech” in all along, and I applaud your courage and postulate to do that and to fix Corporate Scientology, but just by giving your blessing to build a better bridge is what one might consider “squirrel” depending on one’s viewpoint.
Independent Scientologists are more than just ex staff members or high ranking RTC officials, like you, who have decided to wake up and stand up against tyranny of suppression and invalidation. Independent Scientologists are always looking to improve the conditions of this planet with the tech whether it’s LRH standard tech of the 50s, 60s or 70s. Independent Scientologist, at least the one’s I know who are truly free, are willing to at least look at other points of view on what a Bridge is. Is a “Bridge” supposed to be fixed? Is it a one size fits all? What about past life Clears and OTs? Where in the standard Bridge to they fit in?
Thanks for taking on this new and expanding viewpoint and including us Independent Scientogists to make a better Bridge.
Happy to see that your viewpoint is expanding.
By accident or design, you have become the lightning rod to discharge Miscavige’s insane fury and I appreciate the role you have chosen.
We are delivering services in increasing volume and promoting the truth about the power of Scientology technology while you engage the farces of darkness (sorry about the pun) in direct combat.
Stay strong and don’t forget to get enhancement for yourself as this is often forgotten in the heat of battle. Those who deal with insanity on a daily basis may forget that it is actually contagious.
I was thinking it would be nice if Marty would set up a barrage of security cameras around his home and streamed them all online. You know, for his own protection. That way we could all watch when he wasn’t looking to see what these stalkers were up to. Plus, David M. could simply sit down and watch his PI’s too. I can see him now, clinching a glass of scotch, exclaiming, “Damn it! Those PI’s need to have their ethics put in!”
So right you are Marty…I can’t agree more.
In addition to delivering services, it is important that OT independents get back on the Bridge as PCs and Pre-OTs…
If you have been on the upper end of the Bridge after the “3 swing F/N” fiasco and got all bunged-up, now is the time to return to the Bridge in the Independent field. I got auditing at Casablanca and it changed my life. The auditing I got was the best and most important auditing I have ever had in my life.
Let me share a short story about when I was at Flag getting auditing on New OT V: In 2005 I routed myself from New OT V into Flag Qual because my understanding of auditing had suddenly turned upside down… instead of having a wonderful, enlightening time in session, (as I had for the past 30 years), I was grinding and grinding with overrun after overrun and then repair of overrun, etc.. on and on endlessly (I had no idea at the time that the reason for this was because DM had changed LRH’s definition of F/N and EP. I think this was done just so everyone would overrun and make “no gains” just like himself….)
Anyway, when I got to Qual and said: “hey guys, you know auditing to EP is NOT that hard to do. Why is it so difficult NOW? I have been doing this for 30 years and something has changed. Can anyone show me any bulletin that can explain what has changed here?? No one could answer me directly, but I could see the Cramming Officer and Qual Sec “knew something” but were not telling me and they seemed afraid to do so. The Qual Sec left me reading basic advanced course materials (comparable to KSW or other similar basic materials) and then they scurried off to their offices like frightened rabbits not wanting to deal with me. Every now and then one of these rabbits would peer around the corner to see if I was gone or not. No one wanted to talk with me because I was trying to find out what happened and they all KNEW the answer but were afraid to answer.
The bottom line is that Qual KNEW that auditing was getting royally screwed up, but they were afraid that RTC would also send them to the RPF for questioning DM’s squirrel rendition of LRH’s F/N and EP technology. (Flag Qual was decimated and the top tech terminals were in the RPF, as I learned later.) So, DM’s case, the RTC’s implementation of DM’s case and the ultimate destruction of Qual (so only rabbits were left) is why the Church is dead today and the only safe place to get auditing is in the independent field.
So, if you have gotten auditing after this squirrel F/N & EP tech was introduced into the advanced courses (or any other level, I am sure) you need to get back into session with an Independent auditor. I assure you, your life will change. And change quickly. It did for me.
Call an independent auditor and get back into session! Real auditing has been missing for years and thanks to Marty running interference, there are lots of places to get auditing today. See
http://www.iscientology.org/
Marty,
This is sound advice. One I will follow. After all as LRH suggested; “The best solution to suppression is flourish and prosper. It drives the SPs mad.
I just wish you did not have to endure this harassment. You certainly do not deserve it.
That might be a good idea security-wise. I personally try to not do stuff like that though. If you are not careful it becomes a sort of solid ridge, or maybe a low toned “games condition”. I always think of a neighbor who’s car was stolen. He had an open carport so he enclosed it with bars and an automatic gate, bars on his windows and flood lights (maybe cameras too, but this was in the 90’s). His house looked like a prison.
I don’t think thats how Marty rolls.
A lot of people would respond that way and I don’t blame them. I got only the tinest, tinest fraction by comparison of this stuff from the Church and it freaks you out man. It’s very enturbulating and entheta. You have to stay exterior to it and not get sucked into it. I think the tendency is to, I believe the term is “lock terminals” and sort of go into ARC with the other terminal.
You are going along fine and then someone says “I’m gonna get you” so you match the tone level and say “Oh, yeah- well, not if I get YOU first”.
If you are bored and looking for something to do I guess this is OK, but if you have other goals it might be something to avoid.
If you “come out” nothing like that happens to you. And if it did, who cares.
Great detective work Marty!
On a somewhat related topic, this excellent article clearly written by an Indie at the Huffington Post, would almost certainly never have seen the light of day 4 years ago:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/scientology-and-me-part-o_n_2088268.html
Let’s keep on keepin on!
Ok.
One thing I think might help in situations like this is to ask “who’s hat is it?”. Who’s hat is it to protect and preserve a safe environment free of stuff like this, or to protect civil rights of citizens etc. Whos hat is that? Who wants to wear it or should be wearing it? Find that guy or group and get them to wear it. Sometimes they grab it up enthuiastically.
For those others also chewing on “chuffed”, here you go:
“chuffed. To be very pleased, proud or happy with yourself. I just scored free tickets to the gig, I’m well chuffed!”
Source: urbandictionary.com
Marty, this is so true.
OSA simply don’t have time to bother us while me and my auditor are dealing with floating TA’s and looking at real F/N’s (no need to wait 7 seconds to see if it is floating or not). Please… auditing is happening and will continue.
Freezing our a—-s still in Canada.
Internet auditing is to me the same as internet surgery. Even in cases of remote surgery, you have someone local who has skills wielding the knife while the expert walks the TEAM through it from afar.
There is no model session in internet auditing. The “A” in ARC is strained because of the distance between auditor and PC. The “R” is strained because your interaction is in 2 dimensions (at best) rather than three, and the auditor can not see the entire auditing environment, or the PC. The “C” is strained because of the inherent lag time that absolutely exists between auditor and PC, the reduced number of perceptics that are available to the auditor to communicate with the PC, and the lag time and vias between cans and “e-meter”, and the lag inside the software-based, one-of-many-processes-running-on-a-Windows-computer “e-meter” when your read is forced latent because of lack of real-time processing capability of Windows (Windows will assume that processing an internet packet or mouse movement is more important than processing the translation of a digital impulse to a fake-analog output meter dial). Result is there are NO instant reads captured. Internet auditing makes that an impossibility.
There is no real session control. The PC can just up and walk out at any time. So, the auditor’s TR4 is forced out. The auditor’s 8C is forced out. The auditor is not really there, so there is no real “Auditor + PC > bank” factor there. The bank can up and walk away with the PC and the auditor is there staring at a Skype screen. So, sure, if the PC is not running anything real, internet auditing could be somewhat workable. But you are left with your dick in your hands the moment you hit something that requires auditor skill.
I know some people are in love with this shit, but get cussing over it. Either get the PC to show up at your door, or show up at the PC’s door, and do it right. Internet auditing is an excellent example of “just because you can do something does not mean you should.”
Mark Patterson
Thanks, Marty, for doing this. This rope-a-dope thing is brilliant. It plays directly into the insanity and incompetence of David Miscavige.
Marty,
Sorry about the Cold War waged against you. It sucks to be Miscavige, though, and being the little man is far, far worse, that’s plain to see.
Thanks for sharing the inspiration of Common and Cee Lo and Maya Angelou.
Peace!
Yes you’re totally right !
And the most beautiful thing about the whole Story is that:
“THE MONOPOLY ON SCIENTOLOGY TECH by the rcs IS GONE”
Independent Centers and individuals that are delivering Scientology Tech are popping up all over the world and can’t be stopped anymore by any courts or any other Trademarks or copyrights considerations !
We got back our Religion and don’t have to hide to use it !
Thanks to all !
Yeah, you’re right. It sure wouldn’t be fun to “be” David Miscavige.
I was just playing the idea. But, it is important to not go PTS to Inc. or be them. Just flourish and prosper.
Hi Mark,
Everything that you say could be true if you look at this from an outside perspective. Have you ever audited over the internet? Yes/No
Why would any part of the ARC be strained? Have you ever got on SKYPE with anyone who you had a great affinity for? If you have not, try it. Not for auditing, just for a conversation with someone you love, maybe a child or parent. My son and I SKYPE with his 93 year old great grandmother regularly and I can assure you that the Affinity we have for each other immediately comes back into full force once the connection is made just the same as if we were in person. Affinity is not measured in distance in the MEST world.
If an auditor’s intention is to create high ARC he will do so. And if the PC is granted the beingness to allow himself to have ARC for the auditor it will happen as well.
As far as technical issues, yes there are some, but a meter should be secondary to the PC and the Auditor’s and the PC’s skills to audit. Would you agree?
You don’t have to fear a PC running out the door while doing auditing over the internet. He is not under suppression from the COS. He wants to be there and a good auditor will know that the PC might be facing something he’d be having trouble with before it hit him.
If an auditor grants the beingness to the PC to give him the tools he needs to win at auditing, it will happen.
Maybe we can agree that, “PC is not running anything real, internet auditing could be somewhat workable”. I would take that part of your statement as a win. What’s important about all of it is, if you take it TOO seriously the wins at auditing can become too few and far in between.
Ask yourself this: If you can audit across space, time, past lives, universes, etc., Why Can’t You Do it With the Internet? Why does the ITSA line have be in a physical space of 4-5 feet? Why can’t it be from the distance of a PC’s monitor and headset to the distance of the Auditor’s monitor and headset. I’m sure that’s less than 3 feet.
Auditing over the Internet is far easier than one would believe. Think about it, you won’t have to build an Ideal Org to Clear the planet.
Regards,
Sammy
AMEN
Marty, I personally want to thank you for your courage and intelliegence in what you are doing and how you are manageing DM and his “spies”. A relatively safe environment has been established for guys like us to deliver Standard Scientology and Dianetics. As mentioned above there are a growing number of auditors in the Indy field with the abilities to fix cases botched by the corporate church. Through the positive progression on yours and others’ parts it is now possible to work in peace.
One more thing…..Thanks to all who are working in the Indy field to make a better world. May the Source be with you.
I think Internet Auditing is very risky indeed, Mark. I’d hate to “blow” from session because my internet connection went down. Talk about the ARC break!
But I think Sammy’s point has a lot of validity. We can re-evaluate as individuals … and in fact we SHOULD! I know of a CS that handles almost all worksheets by email scans/faxes. I see no problem with this.
I think as long as everyone is upfront about how they apply things and people can make their own choices about the quality of the tech the free Scientologists outside of the cult will do just fine.
I know I won’t be upset if someone refuses to use carbon paper.
Love this Marty. This is apparently your karma — many of us wanted to expose the abuses, some of us did at times, others just wished they could and more just hoped it would all get better — somehow.
You saw that the causes and conditions of your life were such that dms cross-hairs are firmly on you — funny, dm hasn’t yet understood that yours have NOT moved a millimeter from him and will not and what that ultimately will bring.
Love you,
Christine
Hopefully, no further chances of an m/u (misunderstood!) on THAT one! Thanks Margaret!
Very nice article indeed ! Talented writer.
and for the people that want to know the definition of audit:
audit (n.)
1431, from L. auditus “a hearing,” pp. of audire “hear” (see audience).
Official examination of accounts, which were originally oral.
The verb is attested from 1557.
Auditor id attested from 1377, from Anglo-Fr. auditour, from L. auditorem (nom. auditor) “a hearer,” from auditus.
Source(s):
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?sear…
Yeah! Expansion, exponential expansion, is what will knock down “Dr CrOB”* and his minions! 😀
That’s one of the reasons we DO need graphs around with the two standard main stats of an org; all these two stats of all active Indies, individuals or organizations, summed. This would need of course that each publish on-line one’s own tow stats. Could you do that guys here around?
Remember: What was the birthday gift that Ron wished? 😉 And what about for each of us to take responsibility for the whole scene, while knowing the conditions of each of us and as a group too?…
M.L.
(* refers to a character of the L. Ron Hubbard dekalogy “Mission Earth”, character who can hardly prevents himself to change, to “alter” the shape of bodies, and has much pleasure of atrocities and other madnesses)
References:
“Orgs have only 2 major valuable, final products. One is trained auditors. The other is satisfied pcs.
“… Tech and Admin policy exist only to assist making these two products IN VOLUME.”
(LRH ED 131 INT Life Repair Block, OEC Vol 4, page 145)
“The product of an org is well-taught students and thoroughly audited pcs.”
(HCO PL 17 June 1970RB Technical Degrades, OEC Vol 0, page 18)
“The individual statistic of any organization (except SH) is:
HOW MANY TRAINED AUDITORS EXIST IN ITS AREA.
The individual statistic of Saint Hill is:
HOW MANY TRAINED AUDITORS ARE THERE IN THE WORLD.” – LRH (HCO PL 4 Oct 1967 I Auditor and Org Individual Stats, OEC Vol 4, page 118)
Well, Marty, I guess I’m going to have to retread my Data Series Evaluators Course. Seems I got the “wrong why” on why no protests in front of our house.
I really thought it was because three of our neighbors have big signs in red bold-face type stating:
“WARNING
FIREARMS REGULARLY DISCHARGED ON THIS PROPERTY”
Les
What a great analogy! LOL
Robert (and all), Speaking of which, rumor has it that the hardest working man in Independent Scientolgy, Steve Hall, has something coming down the turnpike that is going to put a lot of attention on delivery of Dianetics and Scientology. A lot!
If one “sits” at FEAR (1.0) on the tone scale, one has NO
chance of overcoming an enemy /adversary / opponent!
It only becomes possible once one has “assumed” the tone
of ANTAGONISM ( 2.0 ) or higher. Games are best played
at around the level of ACTION ( 20.0 ) where the “situation”
can become an extroverted, fun, and immensely absorbing
GAME, where one CAN take a blow, or a knock, and bounce
back stronger than before, This is where your all-out sports
people, boxers, motor racers, sky-divers, fighter pilots, and
other warriors ( of every form) play “the game” at their best.
“Spirit Of Play” is another great description / approach.
The key, IMHO, is to remember not to take things TOO
seriously, since that is a surefire way to “lose” out on the fun!
That was a really interesting and well written article. I will read the rest of the series. Thanks for posting.
I wake up and make my auditor breakfast. Go in session and come out with a floating TA. It’s truly wonderful being audited outside the Church suppression.
Scientologists owe you a debt of gratitude Marty!
Great article Marty! I came across the Movie Arago! It really struck a cord me with.. Have it on my computer and am only half way through.. Really wanted to recommend it to you, had to pause it.. You remind me of Ben Afflecks character to a degree: http://youtu.be/w918Eh3fij0
Hi Brian,
In the case of a broken or bad connection, the back up plan is usually to pick up the phone.
Think about this: With internet auditing the PC’s self-determinism to be cause over his case, has to be there. When the PC knows that he can handle something even if the internet goes down, how much do you think his abilities increase? That’s the risk.
Really, it’s 2012 and you can buy a 2 TB (Terabyte or 1,000 GB) thumb drive and store the entire Library of Congress on it. How long do you think it would take our society to develop technology, i.e., SKYPE that will never loose it’s connection or have a speed just as fast as in person? Why isn’t the Mark VIII Emeter on an APP yet? We, Scientologist, are so smart but we can’t develop the tech together to solve these problems.
What would the world be like if we could accomplished, at least, some auditing over the Internet. What would it be like if we could make a Clear?
Regards,
Sammy
No doubts necessary, Les! It IS the signs!
(Off topic)
Dear Marty,
A strange piece of information is picked up by Tony Ortega in a review of What Is Wrong with Scientology? Healing Through Understanding.
“Rathbun then makes what, for his independent Scientology readers, is his big reveal. In 1986, Pat Broeker announced that Hubbard had managed to finish OT 9 and OT 10 before he died. David Miscavige later claimed that material through OT 15 was waiting to be released at some future date. But Rathbun says it was all a lie. Hubbard never completed anything beyond OT 8, the current highest level of spiritual attainment.”
A lie? Why this particular assertion?
ML/A
Margaret, my natural excitement rose instantly, on reading
this fabulous recollection, linked by your recommendation.
The style was so reminiscent to that of Ruth Minshull, ( in the early 70’s,) and in so many details, mirrored that
of our own daughter, who grew up in her early years around
our org, whilst mom (my wife, Dorothy,) was auditing PC’s
or on course studying. And the author’s sentiments were
spot on! Those really did seem like “important'” & exciting
times. You were often encouraged to write to Ron! AND you
not only got an acknowledgement to EVERY single letter you
sent to him, but invariably he had some really LRH “flavour”
comments and real “interest” in whatever you had written
to him. A real feeling of personal connectedness, made you
feel really special.We truly, truly miss that special warmth,
of those times, and hope it becomes possible to once again
allow people to ditch the cold barriers and “clique club” that
excludes people of genuine goodwill, from inclusive comm.
Calvin.
Here is the movie preview:
Read the book.
Hey Marty,
Thanks for what you’re doing. And we’re doing our share. Lots more great news coming from Dror Center soon. Real soon. Exciting news. To be read on this blog.
Dani
Marty my strange ally in this Universum.
Europe is elated Obama got relected again. I am too. America lagged behind on healthcare. THANKS TO OBAMA EVERY CHILD EVEN POOR WITH CANCER CAN GET HEALTHCARE EVEN WHEN THE HEALTHINSURANCE COMPANY STOPS PAYING.
Obama is a dutchman
I second that
Tony please donate to Why we Protest, friendlyist Enymy you ever had.
“Unwanted Kapitalist”
For the Republicans that are Scientologist too. Mitt Romney got a lot of Campaign Money from David Miscavige.
Nuff Said
Had issues with the movie preview. Should work this time.
Its A dramatization of the 1980 joint CIA-Canadian secret operation to extract six fugitive American diplomatic personnel out of revolutionary Iran. If you enjoyed “The Life Of Others, this has so many parallels to alot of stuff.Its scored a IMDB rating of 8,40.
I love Texas. I am seriously thinking of moving there.
THIS IS MARTY.
I can’t think of anything I’d rather do …
Just when I think Marty has ran out of Middle Fingers to stick up at COB dm – he somehow finds another one.
This fight should have been called a long, long time ago…..
Cheers from the Bed Man in OKC
Dan, I noticed in a post – this is off topic – that you paint. Do you have a website?
I find it both tragical and hysterical that this utterly deranged, and yes, degraded dwarfish being of a ‘man’, POB, continues in his lofty visages. Pay backs, though, (that kharma thing) are hellish.
It will hit him and the few dwindling others smack across the face, enormously.
It sucks to be a sawed-off sociopath………
It’s wonderful to be an independent.
Obama cares
Quote from David St Lawrence aka OldAuditor’s article about Skype auditing:
“At this point in time, only the most skilled auditors seem to be able to accomplish this. As time goes on, someone will develop training drills so any willing auditor can be trained to audit remotely.”
http://workabletechnology.com/?p=485
Marty,
Honest question: I was at an indie party last year where two particular old-time Scientologists informed me they were OT 12 and OT 16 respectively, on their way to something like OT 48. They mentioned they were in Ron’s org via Capt Bill Robertson. They are quite well-known in the pacific nw region amongst indies.
All of this confuses me. Ron’s org? Capt Bill? OT 48?
What to think??? Where to get to the truth of what the actual Bridge is??? Somebody please clue me in. I’m just a simple caveman.
Sammy, I use Skype/GoToMeeting/WebEx and internet technologies on a daily basis for my work – I could not live where I live and do what I do without it. I get being in love with the technology, and it is really cool that you can video call people on Skype or Google+ or Facetime or whatever and have great conversations with people, and when you go high-end, like HALO and the Cisco teleconferencing tech, it is fabulous.
But it does not replace physical co-location. It can only work where the ARC is already there, and the discussion is straightforward. As an example, daily Skypes to the significant other is a great way to stay in touch over long distances, but only a heel would break up with someone over Skype. Why? Because physical co-location matters.
I know my parents would rather have my son in their lap in the same room than have a call over Skype. They love Skype calls, but they would rather we be there in person. As I noted, there are 53 perceptics. Skype cuts off most of them.
Look, I am sure you mean well. But compare what is happening in a Skype situation with the five Gross Auditing Errors (HCOB 12 Sept 65, “Out Tech”):
1. Can’t handle and read an e-meter.
Your meter is by definition faulty over any kind of internet connection, as noted. Therefore, you have no meter, and if you try to use an e-meter remotely, you will miss reads, F/Ns – pretty much everything.
Technically, what is happening with an e-meter when you have a real e-meter is:
Cans -> wire -> e-meter circuitry -> needle movement.
A software-based e-meter Over the internet, on the other hand, is:
Cans -> wire -> A2D translater -> USB bus -> communications processor -> emeter capture app of some kind -> TCP/IP stack -> network card -> wire or air packets -> router (packet assembly) -> modem (packet assembly) -> router (packet assembly) -> [router router router router…] -> modem (packet reassembly)-> router (packet reassembly) -> air or wire packets -> network card (packet reassembly) – TCP/IP stack -> E-meter app -> D2A translater -> graphics code -> screen.
As bad as the above looks, it is worse than that, because the apps and network cards on both PCs involved are being preempted and scheduled by consumer-grade operating systems (usually Windows). And, there is nothing that can be done about it, because physics is what it is in this universe.
3. Can’t get and keep a pc in session.
You may be able to get a PC in session, but not keep him there when the going gets rough. You really can’t rely on the willingness of the PC to play along. Everythings cakes and roses until you hit a real engram or GPM or Missed Withhold, or out list. There are many, many times when you have to be there physically with them. One time missed in an internet session is a GAE.
2 out of 5 GAEs is pretty bad. All five need to be in all the time.
I think remote C/Sing and FESing is great! I can’t tell you how many C/Ses I knew only by their name on the program and session C/Ses. That is a whole different ball of wax, and really does open up some very nice possibilities.
However, crams need to be in person.
Sammy, it sounds so beautiful, and I get how cool it would be. But – A., it is not the auditor’s job to let the PC wallow in it if the connection breaks. That is killing the auditor’s code. The PC will gain ability by being standardly audited, not by fighting his own way out of an abandoned session. And – B., physics limits us. In the best-case, it takes 1/8 a second for a signal to get from NY to Sydney. That is a LONG time, and that is the best case.
I prefere to have the PC in chair before me, in my own space.
That’s how it should be. It’s part of ARC. You have to have the PC next to you to spot all the indicators, the tone level, wave-lenght of his emotion etc.
Phone/Skype is good for assists, though.
The Auditors Code is there for a reason.
What I think is that they are six times cult as Church of Scientology Inc. 48 divided by 8 equals six.
🙂 I love Ali. He is a hero of mine. I love Foreman, too – he is an iron man – but Ali was who I loved more than any other sportsman growing up. He is a SMART man. He is a lot smarter than anyone (except maybe Howard Cosell) knew.
I am not subjecting my family to living hell for four years running for some idiots who do not even understand the first equation that makes auditing work. End of discussion on this blog about skype auditing. In anticipation of the whelpers, start your own blog. If your tech is so workable, you’ll blow this one away in no time.
Actually, he is Irish:
That’s me…freckles and all!
“When interest becomes fixed we have attention. When attention becomes fixed we have an unawareness of other things than the object of fixation…” LRH, Creation of Human Ability
Just a great article. Found it quite interesting..
My gut tells me the same thing.
I also caught a few freezoners trashing Ron’s org folks and vice versa at said party. Both sides invalidated one another like little kids.
Me, I’ll stick with budweiser. It raises tone (temporarily) so it’s valid processing. 🙂
Sometimes it boggles my mind, what kind of people are send to “handle” Marty. Like the squirrel busters or SO members.. Knowing that Marty, used to run these people. Just makes no sense other then creating distraction for him.Marty is always going to have the upper hand, vs these individuals
I mean DM has to know, the people he sends can’t hack it with Marty. Its just to get under his skin.I mean if you know how the SO works, there is just no chance, you are sending 5 swampers to handle, someone that was the Inspector General RTC.
I mean the best move, would clearly be to leave Marty be. Just have no reaction.
I really believe Marty, really could run COS really well and save the reputation of Scientology.
Marty,
Thank you for your public compliment.
I never did nor have intention of posting something derogatory against you in other blogs, forums, etc.
Les is in the great Northwest, like I am, and firearms out in these parts are tools, not toys.
Margaret,
Clarification appreciated! Yes, I was chewing on that.
Leonore
Thanks for that one. Right on the money too.
Hi Cat!
I think annonymous has done some great work! Thanks for doing what you do Cat. 🙂
Hey, That was pretty bright.
I just watched it. The suspense created in that film has made Affleck the new Hitchcock. I was on the edge of my seat. Unforgettable film.
I just watched it in the theater.
Hey Marty! 🙂 I know I am not one of your favorite people but I can speak I presume should the circumstances warrant? 🙂 It turns out that ALOT of people do not fully comprehend WHY the Church of Scientology continually hounds you the way that they do. And NO it is not thought of as something brought on by your “continual hidden aggression” {for lack of a better expletive} against the church. So feel safe. This kind of aggression is the sort of thing RCS’s get into to prove their point that they are free. Well I have to agree on that, they sure are! 🙂 And I hope they stay like that for a long time, so everybody learns from them what Scientology means and what it doesn’t! I don’t see how anybody can associate David Miscavige with the words “trained Scientologist”. Karen De La Carriere? Now THAT is a trained Scientologist, who turns more heads anywhere she goes in one day, than David Miscavige will do in one year, on one of the thousand pairs of shoes he owns. Let me not go on forever about it. One day I hope you may audit me. If I have any case at that time. 🙂 If not, good roads, fair weather! 🙂
He may be Irish, but Barack Obama is definitely WHITE! Watch this funny clip from Chris Rock on how to get white people to vote for Barack “Barry” Obama:
Dox?
It seems to me, those that have been sent to “handle” Marty, were plan A, B, C, D, E, F, and G at least. And there is no plan H.
Romney gave an interview a few years ago and said his favorite book was BATTLEFIELD EARTH.
Mark, congratulations! On a job thoroughly well done!
I don’t think anyone could have dissected the option
of internet auditing any better. Case dismissed!
I hear you, Born-In-SO. Perhaps DM has spiralled down into Stupidity. He apparently always had a big ego and overestimated his own ability. After all, he thought he could run the CoS successfully? Or did he? He’s hard to make sense of.
LRH said there was such a thing as an “Incomprehensibility” – something that could not really be understood because it really doesn’t make sense.
I tend to think DM falls in that category. All he can do is waste things and people.
Sure, but you have to admit, isn’t it great being out from under
the heavy boot of the crumbling “church” concept? Where one
can be one’s own leader? Scientology IS evolving, in terms of
a devolution of power. And that is precisely what is meant in
terms of bringing an individual up to assuming the viewpoint of being CAUSE (incrementally over 8 dynamics!)
Marty,
Thank you for putting your foot down on this particular piece of bullshit. I’m not even a classed auditor, yet I understand why this so totally wrong. But there is a subtle point some folks may have overlooked here:
(1) only an ex-Churchie experienced PC is at all likely to pony up for the remote e-meter gear so they can be audited over the Internet…
(2) In every auditor’s immediate neighborhood, town or city, there are literally hundreds or thousands of persons who have not yet been contacted and introduced to Scientology…
(3) Points 1 and 2 mean that an Internet Auditor *not bringing new people into Scientology*, but instead scavenging existing Scientologists who left Co$.
(4) It also means such a so-called “auditor” has about zero confront or awareness of the people in the world right around him who sorely need him to set them on the road to Total Freedom.
God help us!
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
What next? Doing TRs via Skype? “Do the Comm Course without leaving the house!” Uh, right. Would the Course Sup be observing via conference call? Get real.
Off topic. Or not. The thing is about Marty that can be thin sliced, is that Marty inclines towards truth. Marty did not get into Scientology because of David Miscavige. O.K.? HELLO! YOO HOO! People PLEASE! Marty got into Scientology because he inclines towards the TRUTH. That happened BEFORE he ever knew about David Miscavige and it happened long after AFTER he knew very well David Miscavige. The people that CAN NOT separate him from DAVID MISCAVIGE CAN NOT See differences and similarities. And to bag him up with David Miscavige when he is CLEARLY HERE on HIS OWN TERMS shows a handicap on the viewers part. Now, if you want to make him responsible for all that David did, make yourselves responsible for all YOUR seniors did. Emma from ESMB, I want you to come forward and take the hits for all your seniors did to you. You got into OSA spying and OSA OPS too right? You had a senior you took orders from too? Looks like you and Marty are equally responsible then right? I don’t know then WHY you have 250 threads fair gaming Marty you host while you stand in the fucking shadows and he takes ALL OF THE HEAT!
And he does not bring it up from MERCY. GET REAL!
Upper Indocs on skype? Just kidding of course, but as for the lower TRs …. Miscavige is probably reading this all and thinking to himself “Is there money in this? Maybe we could call it “\’The Platinum Age of TRs’.” And of course the pre-req would be the regular TR courses at Flag with full accomodations, yadda yadda yadda …. Then Dave gets a brilliant thought “VIP Sec checks! If you pay five times the price, you can get your 6 month checks on skype and you can stay at home. Forget the meter. We’ll just take your word for it if you want to pay extra. We’ll call them ‘Super Sec checks.”
You could have carried some of this burden. You chose to own none of it and even dissociate yourself and stand away from it and attack it. Easy way out. Always on the side that is winning.
Thanks for that Marty.
IMHO Skype auditing is for auditors and pcs who can’t confront the physical universe actions of meeting in person for a session. Try doing your objectives over skype to handle that one?
See Isaac Azimov’s “Robots and Empire” for the EP of this process.
Les
I heard that Romney said his favorite book was the Bible and his favorite novel was Battlefield Earth. Still very cool. I loved Battlefield Earth (the book) enough to read it twice.
If David Miscavige was ever able to tell the truth (a pipe dream) about why he has been after Marty for the last 4 years, I believe this is what he would say:
“Marty,
I hate you, I hate you, I hate you.
I hate you because you betrayed my trust. I trusted you with many parts of my grand plan for Scientology to become the most powerful church in the Universe and instead of following my lead you turned your back on me and blew. I trusted you to understand how and why I was doing my best to put ethics in on all those DBs, SPs who were covertly trying to undermine me at Int, I trusted you with bringing back my best friend Tom Cruise into the fold (and you succeeded at that) but then you just got on your bike and blew, thus betraying my trust. Before you left I am sure you did a Doubt formula but I am sure some DB/SP influenced you and you chose the wrong side to give your allegiance to, which in effect makes you a DB/SP. You see, you have to be an SP or a DB to choose any other side but me.
I hate you because you went to the press to tell people about my most effective way to keep my staff and parishioners from being contaminated by SP/DB influence. I was only following LRH’s policy on Disconnection, a policy that was supposed to be cancelled by LRH, a policy I re-instated because the old man was wrong in cancelling it. He did not understand the world the way I do. He was old and naive. He could have never conceived that breaking up families is the most effective SRA to make people think twice about stopping those donations which have made the Church of Scientology one of the richest Churches in the world.
I hate you because you think it’s wrong to physically attack and degrade people in order to bring them to PT and confess the high crimes they have been committing against me. Those who follow me, know the truth and believe that I am a Big Being.
I hate you because you disagree with all of my methods to get Ethics in on people who refuse to accept them as sound methods.
I hate you because you hosed down my trusted employees whom I had sent to handle your behaviour and make you come back to your senses and be back here helping me put ethics in on the enemies of the Church.
I hate you because it appears that all those DBs/SP who have turned their back on me and the Church seem to trust you more than they do me, me the sanest, most successful leader the Church has ever had. Stats don’t lie. Just look at the unbelievable expansion I have achieved over the last 20 years, something LRH would have never been able to do.
I hate you because in spite of all my efforts to destroy you, your wife and dog and your misguided principles, you stand fast and refuse to accept that I am the greatest person you have ever met.
I hate you because you believe in the goodness of hundreds and hundreds of SPs/DBs who have turned their back on me and my Church over the last 30 years.
I hate you because people around you appear to love and respect you, while they despise me. All I have is a bunch of cocksuckers/DBs/SPs pretending to be loyal because I threaten them or because I pay them a lot of money. But what can you expect of SPs and DBs when confronted by Big Beings like me and my best friend Tom Cruise.
I hate you because you are brainwashing all those bitter apostates into believing that LRH tech works while it has never worked for me, which is proof enough of why I have sought to make it work re-writing it and adding my own wisdom to it. And there are a great many people who have come to understand that GAT ( and all the new Tech I haven’t yet released) is the only way to freedom. Ask them, and they will tell you.
Finally, I hate you because, because, because….
Hate
David Miscavige/COB/Ecclesiastic Leader of the Church of Scientology Inc/Biggest Being on Earth and the Universe”
Please feel free to add reasons why David Miscavenge hates Marty Rathbun.
Alex
LOL 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Miscavige hates Marty, because Marty has the Tao.
Miscavige hates Marty, because Marty can successfully apply the Tech.
Perhaps we could all remember this:
———————————————————————-
Somebody’s gotta be there when it gets ugly
Somebody’s gotta be there when it gets bloody
Somebody’s gotta get their hands dirty
Yo, it’s a fucked up job but somebody’s gotta do it
Somebody’s gotta come up with a plan
And be there when the shit hits the fan
I hope ya’ll out there understand
Look man it’s a fucked up job, but somebody’s gotta do it
————————————————————————
The minute you step OUT of your own comfortable box, share ideas or plans with others NOT in the box — it’s going to get ugly.
But each of us are tasked with coming up with a viable workable plan for our own lives and perhaps to at least point others in a direction they can understand.
It’s called “skillful” means in the buddhist teachings. It means showing others by SKILLFUL means a different way.
Marty often points skillfully in a different way. Music videos, author recommendation. Perhaps you’ve noticed he does not just quote “scripture” (LRH) …
“It’s a fucked up job, but somebody’s gotta do it”
Christine
Skype auditing is out-tech. End of discussion. Clear mu’s please.
Miscavige hates Marty, because Marty understands what L. Ron Hubbard truly wanted for mankind and what he was working towards.
Miscavige hates Marty, because Marty likes good music, poetry, words of wisdom and literature.
Marty’s tan isn’t fake.
SJ
There is another, far more important point I left out.
Every pre-Clear or pre-OT of an “auditor” doing remote Internet based auditing has to have their own Internet remote e-meter!!!! For Ron Hubbard brand Standard Tech auditing, only the auditor needs to own an e-meter (actually two (2) per the Checklist For Setting Up A Session HCOB).
The above should tell you all you need to know: this gross out-tech was originated by and is promoted by certain unscrupulous “Freezone” e-meter vendors so they can sell far more of their e-meters than they otherwise might. For those of us with the time and inclination, I would say that these persons now require investigation.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Miscavige hates Marty, because Marty has a conscience.
Marty can feel ARC, Love and compassion for his fellow man, Scientologists and the world around him.
DM is jealous for this qualities.
He knows he is just a sociopathic, meaningless SP.
Dear Oracle,
I can see you are properly pissed off, but realize that more than likely ESMB is full of OSA, perhaps now owned by OSA. Paying attention to what is being said on that site is a waste of time and energy. Don’t waste your time, girl. What Marty and the Indies are doing is crystal clear: Get LRH’s Scientology back in the hands of the world. Anything said which is contrary to what Marty has been doing for the last few years is clearly bullshit of the highest grade. Let ESMB and OSA drown in their own shit and enjoy the fact that the Independent movement is WINNING!!
And I also don’t think Marty feels he’s taking any heat. I think he’s enjoying dishing out the Truth. :))
Alex
OOPS, my last post shouldn’t have read ON BEHALF OF DAVID MISCAVIGE. bLAME ON OLD AGE!!
aLEX
I think Miscavige fears Marty more than he hates him because:
1. Marty sees Misacavige for who he really is, and Miscavige knows that;
2. Miscavige does not want to Marty to impart information about his true nature to others, so he tries to discredit Marty and spies on him to see who he is talking to so that he can continue his ongoing program to disconnect anyone who does communicate with Marty (paraphrasing Karen Pouw here) so that he can stop the spread of truth;
3. He knows Marty can and will out-smart, out-think and out-do him, and then he loses his hold on the RCS and all those still “in”.
The only “trump” cards Miscavige holds is money and members in numbers. But even with all that he is losing ground – exponentially…..
I don’t think Miscavige gives a toss that Marty is a better scientologist, or can deliver the tech properly. He is not interested in those things – if he were he would train, move up the bridge and rescind GAT. No, I don’t think he is that far up the tone scale to hate Marty for all that. He is motivated by fear and is just smart enough to know who could knock him off his perch. His fear will be his own undoing.
Marty, off topic here, but can you personally see a “post-miscavige” situation where grand old Saint Hill,
may once again take one some at least nostalgic
significance, if not ideally, the authentic original and
then restored training facility for the original SHSBC?
Mark, your analysis of so-called ‘Skype auditing’ is so excellent, that I saved it for future reference. Absolutely brilliant!
Meanwhile on LRH Way Independent Scientology is being promoted.
You just have to make up your own mind on if you believe Bill Robertson was in comm with LRH after he died. LRH went off to be leader of the Galactic federation and was sending Robertson the upper OT levels telepathically. It’s been a while since I read through that stuff, but I think thats pretty close.
Exactly, enough with this ridiculous Skype auditing discussion! I have no training or am anywhere on the brigde. Yet I know this is about as squirrel as it gets.
This is what my mother always tells me: “Don’t do Scientology outside COS, its squirrel and people end up in trouble.” So Indenpendents have to be 100% standard tech, with no room for fancy ideas, which are out for lunch.
Personally if I decide to receive auditing, its going to be red on white all the way. Or i believe I am better off, getting none.
Chris Mann,
The real problem with *Swamper* Bill Robertson’s story there is that he claimed Ron Hubbard passed away in *1983* and that he was channeling “Elron Elray” from his Mission spaceship. Ron Hubbard was at Creston Ranch at the time and did not die until January 1986.
Max Hauri and his Ron’s Org crowd are *embarrassing* with their level of stupidity displayed by buying into Bill Robertson’s bullshit. They are the single largest “Freezone” faction and have done the most to PR Scientology to the world as a “UFO Cult”. Thanks alot.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Not so much pissed off as making breathing room! The Church suppressing from side and the anti Scientologists suppressing from the other side makes a sandwich of suppression that cuts off the air supply!
The Indies and Freezoners and everyone sandwiched in between OSA and Int Management and the Anti’s are taking it from both ends! Something is going to give here in a minute.
This is ourselves, under pressure. We are watching everyone and what they will become, under pressure.
And it is discouraging to watch people use the subject of Scientology to ABUSE others.
Yes Wendy,The Prince of Darkness. All the macho facade
in the world can’t hide the fact that he no longer has any “bite!” Since The Giant in The Sunshine (with a REAL tan) Marty, has now de-fanged, him—-pretty conclusively!
To be accurate, IMHO — this dude is 1.1 to his very core!
Thank You Marty. Remote technologies are great for some applications, auditing is not one of them. Once when lets go of technicalities and looks at the very basics what is happening in auditing it becomes abundantly clear, why.
Thanks to Grasshopper for pointing some of the details
What concerns me is. If I step into the skin of COS Inc OSA my efforts would be directed to maintain a monopoly. Promoting Skype auditing for independents would be just the thing I would do.
Having said that, I want to make clear I do not want to say everybody being positive toward Skype auditing is an OSA bot. But it is time to re-study “Basic Auditing Series 1-11”.
HCOB 23 May 1971 R Issue V, “The Communication Cycle In Auditing” first sentence should tell you that Skype is not the setup of choice:
“The ease with which you can handle a communication cycle depends on your ability to observe what the PC is doing.”
What auditor would put a gasmask on and look at his PC through a set of 3 foot long ½ inch pipes and the rotating blades of a propeller to audit him. That is what you do with Skype.
Hey Mike. “Thank you for putting your foot down on this particular piece of bullshit.”
Do you know what happens between your toes if you do this? Yeww. 🙂
It looks to me like it is being used to harass and degrade people. Is this your political finest?
Grasshopper. Thanks for putting it straight with the internet auditing guy. We just train a ton of auditors. We will all have one next door.
LAUGHTER!
The Oracle: “Something is going to give here in a minute.” Hmmm. Said the IAS reg at the door….. 🙂
I am channeling Elbill Elrobert right now and he says LRH died in 83 and was replaced with a CIA operative clone from Marcab
Wendy, good thoughts. Maybe he comes uptone sometimes to ‘hate’ and then settles back into fear.An uncomfortable dispersal.
Dan. I am pretty new in this arena, with kind and implied permission of Marty. Merci beaucoup. Thanks Dan for your write-ups. Effects caused far from your current clime.
I will watch this space for Steve’s products rolling down the turnpike.
Is it not just stunning to observe how some beings with us found the tech, learnt how to use it, audited others, after a very long, long, long time on the track. They found this stuff. How absolutely brilliant. And, then, saw the degredation, the new regime and left. And, got back up and delivered once again.
It is so true that every auditor in the Independent field is massively valuable, in historic terms, to beings all over the world. Stunning.
I would like to declare all auditors in this association to be Kha-Khans, I assume no hat or arrogance to suggest this. Tis just my desire and wish.
UFO Cult?
🙂
Marty & Mosey,
your courage, persistence and integrity is the proof of how deep you believe in this cause.
Is true that you have served as a shield and as a magnet for all OSA operations and this enabled us to get on with the show.
Point is, someone got to do it!
Yes while this happens someone has to put the show on the road.
This will guarantee the future of the Scientology Philosophy.
Thanks for all you have done and will do in the future.
Thanks, guys. Since this is really off topic for this post, and since I really get Marty’s position on this, I have taken this and my first comment and created an entry on my blog (click my name here to ge there) about this. Feel free to reference it and comment if you like.
Mark
Yes – that would be kind of funny. Imagine a two hour confront where the screen saver would pop-on (flying toasters anyone?) and the connection would time-out, and the PC would power-off due to power-save features, and where the “student” could freeze-frame the screen to get up and get a bite to eat and go to the wc while appearing to be just being there…
At the end of the day, it is “Caveat Scientologist”. It sure would be great if we can be certain the person we are seeing is using 100% Standard Tech, and, of course, the most likely place to get that now is independently. At the end of the day, you have to keep your own council and go with people you trust, and be responsible for your own decisions on the matter. Which, really, is a good place to be.
What we do know is that DM’s church is not there. That is a fact. That stable datum has been blown.
Mike, these are divisive red herring arguments you are posting. You sound just like the hardcore ESMB critics who decry “LRH’s bullshit”. Anyone’s beliefs and mythologies can be attacked. Just as the die-hard critics attack and ridicule “scientology scripture” via the OT III story, and other scientology materials.
The real issue is whether R.O.s deliver standard tech and get standard results.
There is plenty in LRH materials that can be and is, ridiculed by some, just as there is in the cosmologies and mythologies of any body of religious works. Some people find the idea of “past lives” ridiculous and invalidate scientology on that basis, that some scientologists believe in past lives.
Why 3rd Party Max Hauri and the R.O.C.(Ron’s Org Committee)? They are the largest and most “standard” of the R.O. groups, and have Cleared many many people over the years, and gotten many through OT III.
You don’t believe in UFOs? Fine. You don’t have to believe in them. But I have met U.S. CoS Clears who claimed to have spotted UFOs and were totally convinced of their existence.
It’s really irrelevant what Bill Robertson “believed” about himself and his comm with LRH. Or perhaps he made up a mythology, who cares? There are people who ridicule LRH’s statements in RJ 67, about conspiring bankers trying to dominate world affairs. Does that invalidate the tech? No, it doesn’t, even if LRH was wrong about that, the tech stands on its own merits.
Same with CBR’s beliefs. They are irrelevant. What is relevant is delivery of the tech and getting standard auditing and training results. If R.O. auditors and courses are doing that, then to my way of thinking, 3Ping them serves an evil purpose, in the overall context of planetary clearing.
LRH spoke of various levels of “standardness”, from the Field Auditor and Franchise (Mission) levels, on up through the Class IV orgs and then the AOs. He did expected that Missions or Field Auditors might not deliver up to the same standards as the AOs, for example. He did not denigrate them for this. In fact, he seemed rather fond of anyone who was helping to put the show on the road by training and Clearing people.
I see the Ron’s Orgs at the very least as extending the reach of LRH and scientology into other parts of the world in a major way, as the CoS itself was slowly going to hell for the past 30 years. Yes, the CoS delivered many good products. But in toto, was it’s delivery any better than that of the R.Os? That’s probably a matter of opinion. Especially given that CBR was pioneering and largely starting from scratch.
Who has walked in CBR’s shoes? Speak up.
There are “flying machines” in the Bible also, and in Biblical illustrations, like some of the Eastern icons.
But no-one is “compelled” to believe in them. However, is it fair to ridicule the beliefs of others, no matter what they might be?
Is it consistent with the Creed of the Church of Scientology?
Oh, that’s right, we are no longer members of the (dead)Church, so the beliefs of others are now fair game, right?
Chris Mann, I’m addressing you in this post, as well as Mike Hobson.
I don’t know the RO.
I never visited one.
Never spoke to the people there.
I think they are dedicated to deliver the best they can.
I think, they should rethink their PR program (OT 48 – WTF?).
In europe, for one, they could attract a lot of people if they just concentrated on the standard bridge.
I don’t even understand why they think CBRs OT 48 could be a go-button for Scientologists in general.
Why are they promoting this stuff?
I am not against their religious freedom, but what about standardness of the tech?
Valkov, don’t get me wrong.
I know they do a lot in russia, germany and europe.
My point is, they would expand much better if they wouldn’t promote the CBR bridge to the ouside.
In fact, this is what stopped me from going to RO Frankfurt.
Just doesn’t feel on-source.
And at the other hand? Why do they need “extras” at all?
Max Hauri – if you read this: please promote and deliver the LRH bridge and don’t focus on “extras” and you will create an island for corporate Scientologsists where they can go to.
You’ll have public in abundance.
Just focus on the LRH brand of Scientology.
Don’t widley promote the OT Levels not created by LRH.
Go in touch with independent Scientologists who left after 1982.
Assume new viewpoints.
I really think you guys have the means to create space where many people can come in, train and deliver standard technology.
At least rethink the promotional work you do.
Non-LRH “Scientology” materials and “Scientology” services are absolutley out-PR for your association. Not because of CBR but becuase it is not ON source.
Corporate Scientologists are looking for standard tech alternatives outside the Church of Miscavige. They have had enough. They are looking for LRHs brand of Scientology.
You can help more than you do by a simple re-evaluation of what is needed and wanted (I don’t try to put you in non-ex here).
When CBR really wanted to help to clear the planet, he will understand. His self-importance button wouldn’t be as big as the one of Miscavige and if he thought that he could clear more people after such an evaluation, I believe he would rethink the promotion of his self created levels. You see, Miscavige will never stop the delivery of GAT.
In any case, I wish you the best.
I agree with your analysis Valkov.
From what I recall of level 0 technology anything that gives tone arm action is improving the case. I am all for keeping LRH’s work seperate and unto itself. I am also fine on others creating technology that helps others. I know some people who have done some of Captain Bill’s stuff and they were very blown out by it. I like what Steve Hall is doing where you can get unbiased reports on different services from all over the spectrum. From Corporate church to Indies and I assume freezone stuff too. I think the indie field needs to be more tolerant than it has been if things are to expand with some ARC. We can hear thegood and the not so glowing reports from all sides of the spectrum and let people decide for themselves.
Are you doubting my channeling? I am currently channeling Elbill Elrobert. He is Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Confedation of Planets. He has developed OT levels that make OT48 look like childsplay. He calls them SOT levels for “Super” OT levels. I have in my posession SOT levels up to SOT100.
I am asking for some MERCY here. Scientologists are an endangered species. It would just be NICE if we could reach across the tables and make a TRUCE that could last long enough so a few things could be FIXED. So the REAL problem could be addressed. So the SOURCE of this madness can get handled. I am personally willing to sign a TRUCE pledging not to HARM ATTACK or SUPPRESS another Scientologist or another person who is CONTRIBUTING to the resolution of David Miscavige.
Valkov.
I just wanted to show how ridiculous it is to riducule “space-opera” “based” religions.
Anyone who tries to tell me Scientology is a ufo religion I show some passages in the bagavad gita. Not to convince them, that Scientology is true, but just to show them, that it isn’t the only religion which believes in past-lifes and extra-terestrial life forms.
BTW.
I left the church because I wasn’t free to apply the Creed of the Church of Scientology. Nor was I free to apply the Code of a Scientologist.
I thought Sammy’s post was well intentioned and wrong on the subject of internet auditing. But he did bring up a point that I think independent Scientologists need a space to discuss.
CSing by email scans is ok, right? Where do we get e-meters for example? Buying one that has an oscilloscope makes accurate fn detection more certain. Should we force people to purchase tapes or books instead of torrenting them? There are some rules that surround the tech that need to be reconsidered. And I think that can be discussed. But of course changing the tech by twisting what it means to have a comm cycle wont be very popular.
Brilliant Grasshopper!!!
Very funny Joe!
There is no discussion required here. It is all quite adequately covered in technology. If you all want to have a bunch of untrained, uninformed, productless spectators discuss ‘standard tech’, again, by all means create a forum for it. This is not it.
check mate.
Mark, one could say internet auditing is like trying to get pregnant from phone sex.
Surely you’re not saying we need to only use Quantum Super 7 emeters, are you?
These are simple electronic devices that people are capable of making. I think people can make better ones and they have.
I’m not discussing the tech. I’m discussing the rules that surround the tech. Specifically, the rules as set by Scientology Inc. that have no bearing on what pc experiences in session.
What is your training level?
Astro Parmesan is the cheesiest!
I feel that a person that knows Scientology well enough would be capable of creating processes that would get tone arm action and improve a case.
If someone wants to call that “squirrel” then to me it shows that they haven’t yet come out of the implant of corporate scientology yet.
Let me see some of your products.
TRs over the internet!
Out tech and patently ridiculous.
……”Student and Coach sit facing each other a comfortable distance apart, about 3000 miles”……?
🙂
Not saying that no one COULDN’T do this, just that it is out tech and would not be a TR as written up by LRH.
I think it is very funny that some auditors are holding the cans while auditing the p.c. instead of getting the p.c. in to hold the cans. They can get someone in if the toilet is stopped up. But not for a session.
Oh, boy! You’re gonna compare altitude on me instead of answering me? Ok, I’ll play! =)
I am a Student Hat and Scn DRD Co-auditor trained student! And I have listened to plenty of early tapes and read basic books. And I’m trained enough as an Engineer to know I could design an emeter.
But others already have. Some of them are very nice also.
I’ll admit my opinion on emeters has been influenced by other auditors I’ve spoken to (up to Class VI). But as an Engineer I am quite certain that these things are certainly capable of being improved.
Thanks SKM. I totally got it. Never thought you were doing it for any other reason.
You are crazier than DM.
I don’t doubt your channeling at all, Chris. Any more (or less) than I doubt Marty’s channeling, or my own.
Nanu nanu.
Truth is simple, everything else is complex.
When a philosophical/religious or spiritual story does not lead to the ultimate simplicity of soul memory and happiness, it is a waste of time.
I’m tired of delusional stories about fantastic delusional dramas.
It’s all a trick of the mind: noisey, misleading.
Yet people are convinced of them from time to time: why?
Because there is an admixture of some truth and falsehoods in them.
If I thought Mikey Mouse was the why to all human suffering, I could cook up a program that would bring souls to realization of certain things:why?
Because I could use the imagery of Mikey to create a process to put a soul/thetan in direct contact with certain actual principles that are the truth.
Than pcs would say,” see, I learned this and that, I left my body. Thanks to the Mikey process.
Sometimes the power of metaphor and symbold can lead to the actual.
But if the content of the processes does not match reality you can have people who had actual experiences but for false reasons.
Mikey is the why
Well, I happen to agree with Ron when he stated in the student hat lectures, words to the effect: when you’ve trained on all the technology and you have proven can consistently get results with it, you are qualified to critique it.
That is possible. People can do what they think is best for them. That’s life. I’m not going to point my finger and holler “Squirrel” like we did in the church. To be honest Tony, I don’t know for sure. Maybe Cap’n Bill was right. All I can tell you is that I read most of his writings and really dig into it, mainly out of curiosity. There are videos of him speaking on the internet and other data available. I’m not closed minded to the possibility of LRH communicating telepathically with someone and sending more OT levels. It’s just that Cap’n Bill set off my cook meter.
Correctly spelled “kook meter”.
Well, isn’t that a nice howdy do.
Care to tell all the good folks here about your ‘assisted’ Solo Nots program, Ralph? I reckon you’re pretty proud of it.
And, I think I will do the LRH stuff first before I go off into other things. But that’s just Scientology. If you want to call it something else fine, but to me Scientology is LRH’s works, I don’t have any interest in Cap’n Bills creations added into the mix. I find no lack of Tone Arm motion in Scientology.
This should have been somewhere else. Not sure what happened.
Dear Brian,
You said, “I’m not discussing the tech. I’m discussing the rules that surround the tech.”
Brian, to the best of my knowledge, “The Tech” IS actually a bunch of rules designed by LRH about how to audit beings. From my experience, auditing works out best if you simply apply those rules.
Of course one has the right to invent other rules and use them, but then you would have whatever you would have as a result. And it would not be Scientology. It would be something else. And it would also be confusing to refer to someone who intentionally practices stuff like that as a Scientologist since Scientologists do their best to practice the Tech.
Mike, I feel the real “problem” with Bill Robertson is he signed off on a Comm Ev and SP declare of David Miscavige in 1984, and Miscavige has been black PRing and trying to “dead agent” him and his network ever since. Very successfully, I might add. The real issue isn’t whether or not CBR was “crazy”, any more than it is whether or not LRH was “crazy”, but how good their delivery of standard tech results is/was.
Cheesy jokes are cheesy! 🙂
Huh? Who is this addressed to?
This is a sound plan.
And since TRs are the foundation of auditing, wouldn’t “auditing over the internet” therefore also be “out tech and patently ridiculous”?
Auditor holds the cans and channels the pc? 🙂
I wonder who would feel I was qualified to audit if I told you that I could get you to move matter around with your mind, go to a library in Russia while sleeping and absorb all the data in that library. That you could run more than one body at a time, and that you may have been part of the fith invador force or possibly been transported to Earth in an ice cube. Would you deem me qualified?
He is such a weakling that he literally lived his life out trying to be someone else (this could serve as a tech film for the best demonstration of OUT OF VALENCE – and the end product of the worst possible in Scientology).
Excuse the fuck outa me? You sayin’ this to Marty?
What exactly besides insanity is being promoted here PJS ??
I’m not saying Captain Bill is right. I’m saying that we should allow people to use the tech and even own it to the point of creating some of their own. And if others like it and it helps them why should we be so damn arrogant that we can’t grant them some beingness?? Or are the TRUE Scientologists the arbiter of all things true? And who decides who the TRUE Scientologists are? I say live and let live and may the most workable tech win.
Hi Chris,
I agree that LRH’s tech should be seperate and pure. It’s fine that you haven’t run out of TA now. You might in the future though, maybe not this life but some other.. Wonder if LRH isn’t around some other time? Will you go run around looking for him?
No kidding. There are auditors that hold the cans while they audit they p.c.. 🙂 I was thinking of having my dental hygienist clean her teeth while I listen, at my next tooth cleaning appointment.
That is standard. How would someone feel walking into the emergency room to find the doctor only finished six months of medical school ? If a person is professional they will want to be educated and take pride in their education, knowledge and value . Most folk with any kind of license to practice do not get bent out of shape if you want to know they are educated to do their job. All the other fields have standards. Why shouldn’t we?
Looked to me like he was addressing Marty. It’s a stand alone post, and not a reply to any comment on the thread.
They insist it works. It would be easy to evidence by filming the p.c. meter and the auditor meter during a session and putting them side by side. That would be the responsible thing to do before it selling it as workable. It is being sold as workable and it has not been proven to work. If it was proven that would end the controversy.
It’s still baffling to me how the entire Church of Scientology can be at the disposal of and limited in scope to the attention span of just one maladjusted individual. But it does seem to be true and that is making it possible for Marty to make some space for Scientology to rise again.
So with a little intention and skill we can sort all this out and at the end of the day we’ll get to throw him a big party. (If we hold it in Australia, it should be a BBQ).
Yeah, he was pretty intense, there. But he was also insisting that LRH tech not be altered, and cursed those who would alter it. 1983. Look at the context. Soon after the mission massacre, and Robertson’s realization that the tech was indeed being squirreled, from right within the CoS. And it sounds like, soon after he was declared himself. Miscavige’s “new broom” had started to sweep clean, and he felt the weight of continuing LRH tech was on his shoulders.
I think each person needs to find the tech terminals he is most comfortable with, and has the most confidence in. I encourage you to do so. You will be allright if you trust yourself. There are plenty of good Indie terminals available.
Yes, Tony, LRH sets off the kook meters of some people. Tony Ortega, for one.
So, you’re the best Super-OT Ron’s Org could come up with to do their PR ?
What is your actual name and post in Ron’s Org Committee, please ? You aren’t hiding that information to protect yourself from OSA, yet you hide it from *us*.
Michael A. Hobson
Indepedent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Mark, SPOT ON. Great write up, and blows the doors off the internet farce. Thank you very much. A Classic.
Ditto Robert,
Just finished an awesome review and ready to fly Solo (NOTs) again, after 22 years of being off of the level in an uncaring so called “Church”.
The auditing was MORE standard than what I got in the “Church”, ha!!!
Whoever is still bogged out there, do your homework / research and go out and get yourself flying again.
Greta
Thanks , Marty and Mosey, for taking the heat and absorbing DM’s attention so that the rest of us can get on with it (which we are).
The ‘Mad Hatter’ ibviously enjoys his Tea Party, When will the crocks of OSA, SB inc etc ever learn the danger of ‘hatting’ for a mad man!!!http://youtu.be/KVzyGQPgVN8
Whilst the harassment and spying is utterly unjustifiable and nasty – not to mention completely self defeating – it may be worthwhile reflecting for a moment how far we’ve come in 4 years. The cult is shrinking into oblivion, Independent Scientology is flourishing as never before. DM is on the ropes. I truly hope it won’t be another 4 years before the remaining prisoners are freed and we can all get on and play really fun games again, without the nagging irritation of a desperate cult leader on the sidewalk (see, I’m even learning American; sidewalk = pavement in English English). My continued gratitude and respect to you and Mosey – as always.
Its an interesting dilemna, though: where do Independent Scientologists get their E-Meters from? Off-topic, perhaps, for the purposes of this blog, but certainly your opinion on the matter is of interest, Mr. Rathbun.
Steve Hall has an interim answer – appearing shortly on this blog.
Dear Steve,Hello
I highly recommend you read THE SCIOPATH NEXT DOOR,by Martha stouts
Actually, this is the correct place. WordPress acts strange on my computer sometimes.
Dear Tooky,
Your Best post yet !
A classic book VWD
I’ve seen too much of the bad stuff I guess. People can create whatever they want. I probably create some bit of tech every day in life or for my business that is based on my understanding of LRH Tech.
But with Scientology usually when people are adding to it or fixing it or coming up with their “own way” it’s because they “know best” which probably means they don’t really get it, or it’s a ser-fac or something- stuff right out of the KSW series. Using Scientology in life is great, but if you are calling something Scientology and it looks like the grade chart, but you’ve changed it around and added stuff to it because you knew best or you had some hidden secret data, I’ll pass on that. I personally am only interested in the pure stuff minus all the crap added by Miscavige which is more of the above and probably the most disgusting example of it.
I think I would have ARC for the Rons Org people. I would buy them lunch and talk about stuff and hopefully my disagreement wouldnt create too big an ARC break. Maybe I could convince them to drop the Cap’n Bill stuff and just be an org.
I have the ability to duplicate and learn from any source. I can discern truth. I’ll listen to a lecture from a Psychologist and come away thinking he is a smart guy. I’ll listen to Charles Manson and realize he made an interesting point in between the psychotic nonsense. You know what I mean? I’m not shut off to data or communication. I think thats ultimately the most important thing- for people to be able to make up their own minds. Thats in the Study Tapes, although I cant tell you which one.
Thats what I’m doing here. I read the Sector Bulletins, listened to the lectures, watched the videos and made up my own mind on the Cap’n.
DM hates Marty because he fishes with a pole instead of blasting caps.
I read your other posts. I don’t think we have enough disagreement to be disagreeing.
I agree that if someone is creating or “channeling” these new processes they should not call them Scientology. I think most people know that Capt.Bill’s stuff is his own.
I have never done any Ron’s Org stuff. I think they have the right to deliver and be evaluated by their results just like the Christians, or Buddhists, or tansendental meditation. They all should be kept distinct.
Why so hostile? Are you keeping Scientology working??
I think LRH was a genius at creating his tech. I personally don’t think it will take you totally out of the trap to the theoretical OT state he describes either because he didn’t complete the research (he said he did complete it I believe) or it was unmocked by dm.
LRH’s work should always be kept seperate and distinct. At some point on the track I do think someone will have to attempt continuing LRH’s research into the increasing of abilities of the spirit.
I personally would recommend to new people to do the LRH Bridge first as it is tried and true. Of course it is only tried and true to those that have had wins on it. Some have done it and not had wins on it. So even “standard” Scientology is open for criticism as being unworkable in some camps.
I have had plenty of wins with Scientology. I know people that have had (per them) many great wins doing other things. I think the creed of Scientology should kick in about here. All men have inalienable rights to their own religous beliefs, opinions,etc. It’s fine to not like any other tech. But I think denigrading any tech based on what the creator said or did isn’t the best test. What are his products?? Some might argue that LRH’s tech isn’t so good based on examining his products. Anyways, I am starting to ramble a bit. I think or hope that I got my point across.
Let’s not become the guy who says : “When you go by an accident you have to stop, because you know you’re the only one who can help.” tc
And by the same token, let us not fall into the same cultic trap of deifying nut jobs who ‘have a special comm line’ to Ron, Jesus, or God in order to sell another stairway to heaven.
Hi Marty,
Who is deifying him?
Probably not. 🙂
My response to you on this, “Valkov” is to repost what I wrote to another Ron’s Org promoter in the Indie Scientologist Facebook Group:
” with regard to Ron’s Org in Russia. I would not promote those folks “accomplishments”, if I were you.
Here is what they they have *really* produced in the Physical Universe: as of May, 2010 twenty-eight (28) Ron Hubbard books, lectures and other materials have been *BANNED* in Russia with criminal penalties for possession of them. And that shows that all Bill Robertson’s Super-Duper “OT Levels” they deliver do not produce OT’s who can get a physical universe product. Instead, they produce a bunch of theetie-wheetie no-responsility cases — a state which Ron Hubbard used to call “up-the-pole”.
In addition to that, NOTS was developed by Ron Hubbard himself, to save his own physical body which was in immediate danger of dying from a severe stroke. Oh yes, David Mayo was his auditor whilst NOTS was being developed on a crash priority basis, but it was Ron Hubbard himself who developed the theory and processes.
My point being that the NOTS case can *KILL* people – and yet you support and condone Bill Robertson’s squirreling of NOTS, which is potentially *LETHAL*. How many people has Excalibur (Bill Robertson’s changes to NOTS procedure) *KILLED* or driven mad ? Ron’s Org ain’t promoting that, now are they ? We ** KNOW ** that squirreling NOTS is lethal because we can see that result from David Miscavige’s having squirreled it in the Church of Black Scientology.
You need to raise your confront and take a good hard look at Ron’s Org’s *REAL WORLD* products and stop listening to the fuckin’ PR.
LOOK! DON’T LISTEN!
Michael Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99″
An additional word of warning:
According to multiple sources, Bill Robertson died of cancer. So take your pick: (a) his super-duper OT levels did not give him the real world power to heal his own body, (b) his Excalibur squirrel NOTS procedure killed him or (c) both.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
So Mike, do you have something against the Ron’s Orgs? It’s not like anyone is forcing you to associate with them….. You are free to have nothing to do with them, ya know?
All right. We disagree whether which emeter you use falls into the category of tech. I was seeing it as, “Ron used this tool designed by others in the development and practice of tech.” But it’s a technical machine. Nothing inherently sacred about it.
You see it differently. I won’t make a further issue of it.
I know I said this before, but I consider Captain Bill to be a casualty on the Road to Freedom. I just can’t hate the guy, but I totally agree with your assessment. I sincerely hope he is relaxing and contemplating rocks.
Well clarify for me then; does the tech actually say you must use a Mark Super 7 Quantum?
Or its that just the policy of the corporate guys?
My feeling had always been that DM tried to impress upon people that their emeters were technological wonders. They aren’t. But, well designed, they are uncertainly useful
That’s the essence of being independent, Tony. It truly is a brave new world, where we each individually are responsible for owning the tech, and yet are collectively continuing the walk on the road to truth. And, Scientology, properly used, allows you to recognize and act on Truth – it is not in and of itself “Truth”. It is knowing how to know, not “Knowledge.” It is the road to Truth, not truth itself.
This is a BIG leap – it was for me. But, I have referenced the “Styles of Auditing” HCOB before, which to me is the gold standard of describing the path from neophyte to expert, and as a person progresses through the classes, the pieces that seem like “islands of tech” start to fall into place as a well-coordinated subject, and then you know enough to know what truly can extend it, vs what are the pretty rocks. But, this is an individual journey with friends helping – and I am SO glad that the Indie training centers are starting up, because while it is an individual journey, we can’t walk it alone.
Who the heck is doing this? Wow!
I meant, undoubtedly useful. Typing on a phone that thinks it knows better.
Thanks Grasshopper.
Wise comment. 🙂
I thought it was meant to go under the Salerno video.
This is fine IF these people have studied and honestly attained the products and abilities gained from ALL sides of the Bridge and then, fully applying the Data Series, have assigned similarities, identities and differences prior to delivering anything else to others. This doesn’t mean one can’t and shouldn’t “BE” the tech, or own it as their own, or even if they want to experiment on themselves. But I would think before one decided if some “other tech” was fine to deliver to public pcs, etc., that they would have become Class XII, OEC/FEBC, full OT VII (original) or VIII (this will likely invite some dissent and discourse, but whatever).
“Helping” others through some off-shoot off-beat practice developed by or altered by some “auditor” who thinks he/she knows best may give their pcs and friends wins, but it won’t take them all the way to OT. Guaran-fucking-teed! I’ve seen the outcome of this view and course of action too many times, especially by inadequately trained auditors (if you scour the internet, you’ll find many who are barely Class IV or Grad IV saying how Ron was wrong and that they’ve figured out the mistakes he made so it’s now okay to audit Power on Clears and OTs, Dianetics on Clears and OTs, GPMs all over the Bridge, mix NOTs with lower grades, Skype or telephone audit, or all manner of off-beat practices).
“Where does Standard Tech begin? What is it?
It is the accumulation of those exact processes which make a way between humanoid and OT. The exact method of organizing them, the exact method of delivering them, and the exact repair of any errors made on that route.
So the net result of all of this is that when it is not standard he will have had some gain; it’s not all bad, but he’ll also have not achieved his full gain.
And the difference between some gain and the difference between that and full gain, is the difference between wobbly-bobbly tech and very standard, precise tech.” LRH
Class VIII TAPE 2 (25 September 1968) “WHAT STANDARD TECH DOES”
There may be sooth in the fact that DM opp-terms anyone who he feels is countering his game plan. Just look at what he’s thrown at Marty and Mosey and Mike and Christine and others. So yes, I’m sure he’s had it in for RONs Orgs, and especially as they are training and auditing others. But when it comes to standard, they don’t meet the criteria as they are specifically operating off CBR tech, a CBR bridge, and CBR advices and policies (Sector Ops). As well, when one can offer two alternatives for OT 5 or NOTs (LRH’s way, or CBR’s way), there’s no standard there. And some of CBR’s OT levels, while the intention may have been altruistic – attaining OEC/FEBC status and Class VIII – are not true OT levels as per definition. Quality of delivery of standard tech is based on whether one delivers standard tech, not on results. Results is a red herring. They’re there if the tech is standardly applied.
“In order to make Scientology work, it is necessary to hold a standard and this standard must be held very relentlessly. And unless all the actions and all the various techniques applied can be held to a standard of rendition, then Scientology doesn’t work; Scientology doesn’t work if it’s badly done. In other words, the disciplines of Scientology are fully as important as the thoughts or discoveries of Scientology.” LRH
(From “An Afternoon at Saint Hill”)
Sociopaths are not discredited or dismissed in the Church. The Anti Social Personality is not the same as the Sociopathic personality. And the Suppressive person is not the same as the anti social. They are all different coins. So, a Sociopath took over the Church. And he has power from other Sociopaths.
They are not Freezone, they are Ron’s Org. Just like Est is Est and Landmark is Landmark. All three took some things from Scientology. They are also not calling themselves the Freezone or a Freezone faction.
Your instant comm eves on people and impromptu interrogations, and reckless postings of findings and recs concern me more than Ron’s Org.
I admire your enthusiasm for prosecution and interrogation and the various declares, but a lot of people are still destimulating from this type of social intercourse as it carries force and enforcement purposes.
This blog stays very high on the CDEI scale at curious for the most part.
If you want to drag it down into the enforce band, think about who you can enforce to log on and read.
I suspect you’re right about that, T.O.
Mike, I’m not trying to push your buttons, I am trying to present a possible point of view about topics I am objectively interested in. For doing so, I have mainly received back a lot of irrelevant ad hominem about Bill Robertson, and not just from you. Evidently “everyone knows” CBR and the R.O.s are just plain bad bad bad. I think that’s a consideration that was originally created and promulgated and perpetuated by DM.
CBR, incidentally, has been gone nearly as long as LRH. So it is somewhat irrelevant whether he was nuts in some ways, or not, because the R.O.s are now in the hands of others. Some of these others may well be bringing them around to increasingly “standard” delivery and training. My understanding is the R.O.s are not all uniform amongst themselves. There has apparently been some splintering within the overall “R.O.universe”, with Max Hauri’s network being the largest, and possibly the most “standard” in many ways. I consider them to be “Scientologists”, and I imagine LRH would, too. A least the LRH of the 1950s would.
Chris Black, commenting below, is the first highly tech trained person who has addressed one of the actual issues I brought up – whether or not some or all of the R.O.s deliver LRH standard training and auditing. I believe some of them do so. I could be wrong. That they ALSO deliver “other tech” as put together by CBR, as “advanced courses”, no one is even trying to deny. As long as they openly make the distinction clear, what’s the problem?
Anyway, I don’t want to belabor this, as people here don’t really seem interested in discussing these issues. But those who don’t study and learn from the past, tend to repeat past mistakes.
As for your “warning” and your choices (a), (b), or (c), I think I’ll choose (d),or perhaps even (e).
And, what “warning” do you take from how LRH died?
In other words, get real mother fucker you ain’t in Kansas any more.
MAH 1)specializes in it. 2) throws in serfacs, 3) does
NOT aspire to operate with fundamentals such as
increasing ARC, or rising on the Tone Scale, since
that might unmock his “game”
BTW Tony, to keep Scn working, I believe individuals
have to have a genuine desire to HELP others. I simply
cannot detect any real indication of this capacity present
in MAH. (The deafening silence from ALL those who have
been “helped” by him, speaks volumes—to me, at least!)
Just my personal observation & opinion. Calvin.
Ah, here’s “Calvin Duffield”, man of mystery nobody seems to know in Real Life, come to make personal attacks on me, yet again.
For reference:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/max-bleiweiss/#comment-203878
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
I’m here to spoil your “game” Mike! Can’t see that?
Not interested in attacking you, or your beingness.
Whacking people over the head with constant ser-
facs, IMHO, does not appear to gaining many plaudits
for you, on this site.
But hey, if that’s what you feel you “need” to do,
then—-carry on Fred! Just don’t be surprised if some
of us whack you back (on the head)—from time to time!
After all, life is a game—-so is this! And many of us here
have learned NOT to take life so seriously!
Peace.
Calvin.
I for one am very glad you are sticking to your guns, Marty! Thank you!
Evaluation of someone’s else’s case, whether in or out of session, is Out Tech, Mr. Duffield. If your Indie 500 list profile is accurate, you aren’t Class IV and therefore aren’t even qualified to make such a determination. If you *were* qualified to do so, you would know better.
Since you are not a Class II, either, I suppose you cannot be expect to know that giving people Wrong Items is also Out Tech and can introvert the person otherwise mess up their case.
OSA operatives on the Internet are actually trained to do what you have just done on purpose; but, I’m going to be very cheritable and assume *you* are doing it because you don’t know any better.
In terms of a debate or discussion, what you have done is called an Ad Hominem Fallacy since you are attacking my instead of any of my points of argumentation.
If you continue to make Out Tech attacks on me, well you will just discredit yourself with the readership here.
Regards,
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
My sense of personal responsibility for LRH’s legacy clearly goes further than yours.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
I am sharing here a post I put on another forum as I’d like Tony to see it and all those who supported the viewpoint that if you knew the tech well enough then why not run processes of your own invention:
Hi Tony, I’m late to the party here but here are a few of my reasons for being willing to continue to KSW even when the body of data which includes policy failed me as a member of the Church of Scientology. I’ve seen people who call themselves auditors and CSes of Scientology doing things to peoples cases that have brought some to near suicide and keyed others in very badly. These people have every right to do whatever they want to people who pay them money to fuck up their cases but it is not Scientology that is actually being applied. From a CS hat there is a duty to keep it working. Omitting procedure from OT levels, omitting hatting for OT levels, evaluating the state of Clear, falsely attesting someone to an action, mixing major auditing actions, omitting PTS or ethics tech or worse denouncing it’s use – delivering someone elses invented “OT levels”. It’s not ok. It’s messing with peoples cases. It’s NOT Scientology. The auditors and CSes who do this need to be upfront with their pcs and stop lying to them and telling them that it is Scientology. THAT WILL close the door to the Bridge for those who believe it IS Scientology. It’s hogwash to say that “there’s no way the tech can be standard in the independent field. LRH said this in C/S S 115 “RULE TEN: All C/Ses and auditors are trusted beings. They earn that trust by being very standard. When they depart from standard tech, when they mix up rundowns or repairs, they betray that trust, the pc, themselves and block the way to a better being and far better universe.” In C/S S 117 LRH says this, “Thus the C/S, by knowing tech, by ordering the usual and seeing that it was smoothly done, by keeping the auditors willing and supervising the flow lines in correct order IS the person who regulates the future of Dianetics and Scientology.” I’ve discovered a very reasonable group of auditors and CSes in the independent field who have gone in to treason as per the above HCOBs. I won’t be sending any pcs to these people and neither should anyone else who is a Scientologist. If they TELL the prospects BEFORE they’ve paid their money and arrived that they do some other thing than LRH’s tech FINE – but I didn’t spend over 14,000 hours of my life studying and interning to THEN hold a CS post for another 8 years with the responsibility of all cases in my field to be like “hey, you guys invented some tech out here?, cool!” or “you don’t tell you pcs that you don’t do actual Scientology and charge them how much? NEAT racket man!” You won’t see me in any group of people who think that this is ok. They are NOT my friends and as a Snr CS I don’t consider I have a right to say what I do about Keeping Scientology Working I consider it my duty to do so. I deliver LRH’s tech. I pursued my training and post responsibility because I intend to do my part to improve the condition of those around me. I found that this tech worked when it was applied correctly and so aligned with my purpose. If you go to a person who says their a doctor to get cured of an illness and later discover that they experimented on you or worse did something to you that they already knew had harmed patients before you would you expect his fellow doctors who DO apply their skills professionally to say “well, his patients don’t get better and several have died but his he’s a nice guy otherwise and he has a right to do what he wants.” It’s not the wild west out here to those of us who refuse to go in to agreement with that and I am one of those people. As a CS I am particularly appalled, shocked and angered by the Class VIII or XII or VIs who have gone off chasing butterflies while closing the door of the Bridge to their pcs who didn’t know that they weren’t getting LRH’s tech, it’s treason as a condition.
Mike Hobson, I think your post assigning blame to Max Hauri and RON’s org for the LRH book ban in Russia is 100% wrong target. Oh, make that 200% wrong target.
That is the result of Miscavige pissing in the soup there, just as he did all over Europe, practically geting Scientology banned there.
RON was basically an enthusiastic low-key a grassroots self-help network presenting no particular threat to the status quo in Russia. The CoS on the other hand, was, as usual, a money-grubbing reging operation trying to squeeze money out of a largely poor populace, selling overpriced materials and services, behind a messianic front.
There is no separation of church and state in Russia; Russian Orthodoxy is the state-endorsed and state-supported church there. As Putin consolidated his power, it was inevitable that sooner or later thestupidity and cupidity of Miscavige’s CoS would butt heads with the government. The initiative probably came from the RussianOrthodox church as much as anywhere else. It would take no more than one or 2 complaints to an Orthodox church official, for it to reach Putin’s ear. That would be enough to initiate some kind of official sanctions against the CoS in Russia.
To start your fact-checking, Mike Hobson, I recommend this blog post from Marty, 2 1/2 years ago. It includes a message to US Independents from Max Hauri. Notice what Max Hauri asks and encourages US Independents to do.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/russia/
I hope you read this post, as I think you seriously need a reality check on this. You are seriously playing into Miscavige’s hands by wrongly attacking Max and the RONs the way you are doing.
Thanks Chris Black, I am really glad you have joined this discussion.
I like your above post, because I think an common understanding of the nature of “Standard Tech” and what knowledgeable people mean by it, is a central issue to the future flourishing of Independent Scientology.
What you posted is good in that regard. I’m sure it applies to various sects within the Freezone.
However I am not at all sure how much it applies to the RONs, as CBR was not in the category of the kind of individuals you identified in your post. CBR was a Class VIII Auditor himself, personally trained by LRH and had received commendations from LRH for his contributions to the Sea Org. As the video ofCBR posted above by Chris Mann demonstrates, CBR was “hell on wheels” towards “squirrels” himself. and I have little doubt that he did his best to establish orgs that did deliver Standard Tech as he knew it.
How or why he came to put together “excalibur” and subsequent so-called “OT levels” beyond NOTs, I can only speculate. He actually explains in his own words what he did and why. Did he “invent” them? I think he put them together based on what he knew of LRH tech.
Was he “crazy”?
My point is that he and Max and the RONs orgs are not your average type of “squirrel”, and that to thousands of people who do not have access to people like you and Marty, they have for a long time and still do serve as a good “mission network” effectively introducing many people to Scientology and actually getting many up the Bridge. LRH himself conmented on his expectations for Field Auditors and “missions” and did not hold them to”Sea Org” standards, but only wished for them to do the best possible job they could do, with what they knew.
I have no doubt that as training in the Independent field expands, eventually all delivery of auditing and training will become more and more Standard, and less “standard renditions” will fall away and cease to exist. That is the Ideal Scene. And so I “ThankYou” Chris, and Marty and Jim Logan and Jimmie and Les/Anita, the Freemans, and all who are working to produce standard delivery of Scientology in the world.
And until I actually see evidence to the contrary, I have to include Max and his networks for doing good and bringing help to Russians.
Nobody else is doing it.
And I do understand how those orgs and the people in them may not be adhering to 100% “LRH Standard Tech” and nothing else, but I think at this stage of the planetary game it needs to be viewed in the overall perspective of how much good they are doing. And that doesn’t mean that actual out-tech shouldn’t be noted when it is actually obnosed.
Thanks for listening.
Wow! I want to get all my dental work done that way, too! As well as some other medical procedures I am occassionally subject to….
Hobson-jobson, I am succumbing to my irritation with you. Where do you get off, using Grade Chart buttons and more, to invalidate Calvin? He makes many positive contributions to this blog.
Since you yourself are admittedly “not a classed auditor”?
I think you are Achin’ for a Shakin’. Perhaps even Cruisin’ for Bruisin’. At the very least, a Time-Out, if not an actual Spanking!
I believe I may get where you’re coming from, in that 3-4 years ago when I first started revisiting Scientology, after staying away from it for many years, and started looking online, when I came across ESMB and the like, I was horrified by some of the “critical” posts and I went to great lengths to “defend” Scientology as I knew it. I was afraid that if the extreme critics “won”, Scientology would not be there in the future for me and my friends. And I very much wanted it to be there. I imagine you experience some of those kind of feelings, if you haven’t made it very far up the Bridge. As I myself haven’t. And you want to defend “standard tech”. Even though you haven’t a clue as to what it really is!
So your heart may basically be in the right place, but the actuality is that you are sitting there angrily and hatefully invalidating others on this blog and out in life who have done you no harm, and don’t mean to do you any harm.
Chris Black,
A big Thank You for joining the discussion, as I think “Standard Tech” needs to be discussed and the meaning of the term clarified, by expert tech terminals. The future of the Independent field is at stake I think.
I have been looking at definitions of “standard”, both as a noun and as an adjective. I’ll post those later in a separate comment.
I’m not a trained auditor, but I was introduced to Scientology by a Class VIII so I have at least some idea of “standardness”. He was Bob Musack. You may have met him, he worked in the Detroit area for awhile back in the 1970s. I had also met quite a few Clears and OTs and other auditors as well, so that gave me some reality too.
Your point is well-taken, from the quote of LRH, that being “Standard’ involves what a practitioner abstains from , as well as what he actually
renders. He practices exactly what is needed, no more and no less, and that gets the desired results.
Thus I can see how the RONs can be judged to be “not Standard orgs”. That’s OK by me.
I do not see however, why you say 2 techs of 2 different sources cannot be delivered under one roof, to a good standard, as long as they are clearly identified as such and kept separate.
Just 3 blocks from my house is a building that houses both a Christian congregation and a Jewish congregation. It is both a Christian Church and a Jewish Synagogue. They’ve been getting along for years under the same roof without pointing fingers at each other, ad homming, etc.
I realize this begs the question of whether anyone there is both a Christian minister, and a Jewish rabbi, and ministers to both congregations?
I think he might have to be a Scientologist, with a good knowledge of both faiths! 🙂
And, I have no reason to think that whichever “tech” they deliver, LRH or CBR, the RONs necessarily do a bad job of it. No reason that the actual, original LRH Scientology they deliver, is not well done.
Thanks again for joining the discussion.
Maybe Marty will put up a blog post about “:Standard Tech”, down the road. I have a feeling plenty of people read this blog, and when they read “standard tech”, they think “oh yes of course” but then fade out a bit behind “I wonder what that really means…..”
He’s just plain “stuck” in the need to find fault (make wrong)
with others, IMHO, Valkov. Sadly, he is just not doing too
well on the cues and advice being given to him by others,
who (initially, at least) try to guide him in the benefits of
using ARC, which would afford him far more acceptability.
Ultimately, MAH just can’t seem to grasp that these obnoxious outpourings and insults work as a BOOMERANG, that just
invariably seems to come back to “whack ‘im on the ‘ead ”
figuratively, at least! His reaction to this very reply, will be
just the same old “business as usual”
I can therefore continue to say, amicably; “..carry on Fred…”
Give yourself a pat on the head, I guess.
Good post, SKM. I agree, the RONs might really do best to put aside the CBR tech and stick with the original LRH. Looking at their websites in present time, I think they may be moving in that direction. Their sites stress they are dedicated to delivering the “original LRH tech”, and one site goes so far as to say they do not deliver any other Bridge, than LRH’s Bridge.
This is my hope also, that they will evolve in that direction. Just as you say, there is a great need on the part of people leaving the CoS, for Standard Tech terminals outside the CoS.
Mike, your use of the term “Swamper” is suspect to me, because it is the title of an undated article apparently written by a “happy” member of the CoS, who holds up the CoS as the bastion of Standard Tech. The article does read like something written for “Freedumb” magazine. It may contain accurate data, but it is definitely slanted by what it omits.
http://www.danandersonkarate.com/scientology/
Found this link on a site that is suspect to me, as I know nothing about its origins, but since we’ve had some talk about “skype auditing”, here it is:
http://exposingsquirrels.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/auditing-over-skype-a-new-fad/
Nothing wakes better than a whack on the ‘ead,
followed by “Come up to PT, Fred, me lad!”
BTW, Valkov, I’ve watched this exact remedy played out numerous times, on the forecourt
of our business premises, where regular louts
and other youth, who have O/D’ed on too much
drug taking, or booze, are brought rapidly to
“PT” (in a manner of speaking) with some rapid-
fire whacks, to the head, even having to resort
to using this this “treatment” myself, on occasions.
(Sigh!) —Whatever it takes!