The Tao of Scientology


377 responses to “The Tao of Scientology

  1. This is great. Before Scn I was medium-well read in different religions and the Tao Te Ching was one of my favorites and I have a few quotes of the Tao popping into my head a fair amount. I didn’t think in terms of Scn being the Yang energy ( guess I am not as sharp as I should be after all ) so this was a great little extra for me.

    Having left the church I cannot really do anything without thinking of Scn – mediumly-well trained in Scn. It is funny how we can love the tech and can’t be around the place that was supposed to have it and be the bearer of it in its purest form.

    Well, LRH said that 20% of the people are flawed and that 2 1/2% are suppressive so I guess they have their 2 1/2%er leading the group now.

    Hope he leaves soon – they have so many good buildings : ) ) )


  2. “Scientology is Yang on steroids”
    ROFL – Classic.

    The Tao is certainly a great foundation for scientology and
    I think Yin and Yang are the best application of the Middle Way
    for this ‘religion’. Yin and Yang are also the best choice
    at present for the reformed independent movement.
    I agree with your startegy.

    While I continue to practice the Theravadin path, I see great
    value in your blog. I wish I could appoint you the
    new Pope of Scientology.

    George M. White

  3. typo – startegy = strategy.

  4. Won’t take much to figure out how I feel about “your pitch for integration” but let me say … perhaps you’ve channeled (joking here) my mind with the line about Scientology being heavily weighted to yang energy.

    One positive thing that happened to me was because of this extreme focus on the yang (masculine – projects, products, performance, deadlines, speed) Scn, especially the SO, enabled me to recover from a rather introverted, shy and “don’t look at me” early childhood through early 20’s existence.

    But, as you say, once that “recovery” occurred for me – then LOOK OUT – the yin (feminine, nurturing, patient etc) aspects of my being were wholly driven out, not brought forth and I became someone you wouldn’t want to encounter if you made me mad. And – just about anything could make me mad 🙂

    Since leaving Scn in 1993 it’s been a search for how to soften, how to integrate and how to USE what I had learned so well as a SO member to create a whole being – happy with myself and able to genuine enjoy life.

    Buddhism was a wonderful step in this process and it’s not over. You’ve helped me to integrate my scientology roots with buddhism but there is more.

    Cooking seems to be a road in at this point to the yin/feminine nurturing and creative side … having missed that wonderfully creative part of life … I’m learning now to cook.

    Thank you Marty – once again – wonderful to have your input.

  5. Marty — perhaps you could move fully define “witnessing” — it’s taken me awhile to understand what the contemplative practicing have meant by this but rather than give my explanation – would you mind just defining it for us?

    I believe hearing you talk about witnessing brought it much more in focus for me as to what is meant.

    Thanks in advance.


  6. Interesting, and yes, I love that statement, “Yang on steroids.” It hit a vein of truth.

  7. martyrathbun09

    Websters does a better job than I can: 4 a. to have personal or direct cognizance of.

  8. Thanks. Therefore if I can extrapolate a bit – through auditing one is directed/focused ON an area which results in a witnessing (personal cognizance) of a portion of the individuals life.

  9. Great presentation Marty. It brings up many thoughts and comments which I won’t expand on here but want to acknowledge your process. Carry on!

  10. That was great. Clear , clean and succinct.
    “I am not talking about alterations”. you say that as if it was obvious but I have been waiting to hear it.Not for my benefit , but I think it is the main fear in scientologists ,in or out and they need to hear it.
    Everything you said is real to me and true . In my line of work , when asked which method or system I use , I always tell that I have a basic tech but first and foremost I look at the individual in front of me and then decide how to help them best , not altering the basic tech that works but integrating everything else I know on the subject to better help the person achieve their goals.Scientology tech is a beautiful thing that was not meant to limit.

  11. “Yang on steroids.” …….. with regular injections of testosterone!!!!!!

    The CO$ process takes a sentient being and turns them into the grim reaper!

  12. Marty you look great!! Life is certainly an adventure and some will continue to “hold on” until they let go!! XO

  13. Go Marty Go Go Go!

  14. martyrathbun09


  15. “Ron Hubbard said…” does not make truth. That would be an Appeal To Authority – something he spoke against consistently.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  16. Marty,
    Awesome! The refusal to acknowledge the Tao as an integral part of Scientology has been for me the most fundamental ARCX with this group.

    It was precisely this omission from the awarness of the average Scientologist, which clued me in from the beginning, that this group was going to hell.

    Recognizing and accepting this basic truth will move Scientologist into context and integration with the world in general and with psychological and philosophical practices in particular.

    Who in their right mind would practice a spiritual psychotherapy with people who look and act like they are part Federation’s troopers and part greedy car salesmen?

    It boggles the mind!

  17. “Don’t be a cult member.”

    Good advice.

  18. Just a follow thru here to your response to me regarding Wilber. I don’t believe Marty is by any means putting a “must read” to Wilber but instead showing a philosopher with a truly Integral approach.

    That said – I find Wilber extremely difficult to read. His CD interviews are easily.

    However, I would say — as a buddhist you might be better served at deepening your own practice by reading a wee bit outside your lineage. NOT to jump ship but to embrace a willingness to “grant beingness” to other wisdom tradition practitioners.

    No need to feel shame about your conceit. You are human, after all … it is not one of the emotions we work with 🙂


  19. Brilliant, thank you very much for the great information and I believe you have transcended much higher.

  20. Wow. I’d say that your pitch for integration is pretty damned good!

    I burst out laughing when you said that Scientology was like “Yang on Steroids!” OMG! I realized that a long time ago, but never had a memorable “quick” summation of the mechanism.

    Nicely done!

  21. I think it is “This is what happened to me…”. Describing the subjective.

    Like at friday night graduation.

  22. But he didn’t mean it.

  23. martyrathbun09

    Perhaps you might show where he may have contradicted it. But, to get into divining his intentions doesn’t do anybody a lot of good.

  24. Having just finished rereading the Tao two days ago, I will just say “Amen to that,” Marty. And as for the validation of Eastern ideas and LRH’s work by science, I will again recommend to anyone interested Dr. Bruce H. Lipton’s work on epigenetic biology and his lecture series, The Wisdom of Your Cells, available on his website.
    Finally, wouldn’t be wonderful to see an LRH birthday event where the speaker simply presented some ideas extemporaneously instead of a pile of bullshit that has been parsed beyond all comprehension. Something for DM to think about, perhaps.
    Happy Birthday, LRH!

  25. The Dao is the Truth of this Universe…It’s how it works and you can’t go against it or have “your opinion” of it…..It’s the missing link in all religions.
    All the Dogma gets in the way of it.
    My life has completely turned around (180 degrees) since being a student of the Dao…A Course In Miracles and on and on….In all the practice’s …I find this one truth and it has changed my life and the life of those I’m connected to. I see with vision now and not the bodies eyes. I would have never gotten this being in Scientology. 🙂

  26. Great descriptions and analogy. Wonderful advice!

  27. Good stuff Marty. I found it very calming. Some stable data in the confusion.

  28. Did you delete my comment? It’s your sandbox, your rules, I’m just curious.

  29. AMAZING !

    The other side is rational, materialistic, pessimistic by adapting toism, buddhism etc. into thinkers who are citizens of modern faithless societies (Schoppenhauer, Nietzsche, Cioran). Broken from the actual depth or height, but thinking right like quantum theorists. I come from Yin without balance. Scientology data has brought the Yang, the height, the strong push to act, postulate, play the game. This is moving a little higher, because it integrates what it needs without judgement.

    Within circles of intellectuals ”unmasking dogma” and crusading for atheism and materialistic objectivity, one finds a monolithic and condescending glare towards Hubbard’s ideas. The same glare must emanate from a KSW crowd hearing about Lao Tseu or the principles behind the illumnation of Siddhartha Gautama.

  30. Maybe putting in a URL hit your spam remover.

  31. martyrathbun09

    No, actually your response was rejected because it is running afoul from the moderation policy for this blog.

  32. martyrathbun09

    Yes – see response to your other query.

  33. Hi Marty,
    I’m only about a quarter way through your video but wanted to say just up to this point you have done a masterful job of explaining things.

  34. Marty,
    You have summed things up perfectly here. Thank you!

  35. You have a moderation policy? OK. Maybe the shorter version will be better. You asked where LRH contradicted appeal to authority. The answer is in every personal interaction I have ever read between him and a Scientologist. He lived a life of authority.

  36. There’s a lot of things found in different philosophies based upon simple truths. Scientology has some great principals for maintaining relationships and keeping them from going south.
    This is for those, with no knowledge or remedy at hand, who have lived through a love “who doth protest too much”…
    You may line up to my right.)

    Winds of Your Mind

    The winds of your mind
    are like the waves on a beach
    Always pushing me back
    whenever I reach
    Each time out to you
    with a partta my heart
    Then those winds come at me
    an’ blow things apart.

    Oh those winds of your mind
    are no special place
    They blow dust in my eyes
    an’ the sand stings my face
    It’s a hard thing for me
    to know what to do
    When my dreams aren’t forsaken
    nor is my love for you.

    It’s not the winds of your mind
    that keep bringin’ me back
    Or the things you don’t say
    that show your love still lacks
    It’s for you to be mine
    you’re so the special one
    without the wind in my face
    without the winds of your mind.

  37. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Rod. Point taken.

  38. wh,
    It is a relief to hear that you also find Wilbur difficult to read.
    As mentioned, I still intend to read more of his work in
    order to broaden my understanding.
    Yes, I need to grant beingness to other Buddhist traditions.
    I realize that there are master meditators out there in the
    Tibetan and other traditions. In fact, I met a grand Tibetan monk
    at our Vihara who practiced with the Dalai Lama.
    I told you at one time that I had deep anger towards
    Ron Hubbard because of certain flaws I found in his
    work in regard to Theravada Buddhism. This is long
    past but a residual view held on to properly position
    the Buddha in regard to Scientology. I am overjoyed
    to hear that Marty is using the Tao as his foundation.
    It is so much a better fit
    Much Metta(loving-kindness)

  39. Dan,
    Lipton’s work is incredible. Epigenetics is cutting edge. I have attended lectures with Lipton and like minded researchers. The melding of mind, body and spirit. Marty and his comments on the Tao and all of the integration subject is the future. We can divide life into 8 dynamics to view it. The tech of auditing does NOT cover all of the materials available on the other dynamics.

    The first book I ever read by LRH gave me a grounding in the religious philosophy of it. I later had troubles on staff as it had morphed into a practice with strict guidelines. Now has morphed into a cult with fixed beliefs and hell and damnation for any to think freely.

    For those enjoying LRH’s viewpoint – which support’s Marty’s post above – I give you a quotation from The Phoenix Lectures book Chapter 2:

    start of LRH
    “This is an amazingly civilized piece of work. It would be the kind of thing you would expect from a very, very educated, extremely compassionate, pleasant people of a higher intellectual order than we’re accustomed to. It is a very fine book. It’s sort of simple. It’s sort of naive and it tells you that one should be simple and economical and it tells you what would be a wise way to handle things. That, by the way, is about the only flaw there is in it, from a Scientological point of view – that you must be economical.
    And if we took the Tao just as written, and knowing what we know in Scientology, simply set out to practice the Tao, I don’t know but what we wouldn’t get a Theta Clear. (Theta Clear: An individual who, as a being, is certain of his identity apart from that of the body, and who habitually operates the body from outside, or exteriorized.) Actually the Tao is merely a set of directions on how you would go down this way which itself has no path and no distance. In other words it teaches you that you had better get out of space and get away from objects if you’re going to achieve any consciousness of beingness, or to know things as they are, and it tells you that if you could do this then you’d know the whole answer and you’d be all set. And this is exactly what we are doing in Scientology” end quote

  40. gretchen dewire

    Who was it that said….Hang out with people who are searching for the truth, stay away from those who have found it.

  41. Thanks for the viewpoint, I’m always looking for those. I came into Scn looking for greater freedoms and walking that road I found I was more and more trapped. I’m finding freedom once again. Bests.

  42. threefeetback

    Good pitch.

  43. I have been involved in that integration you speak of, but I must say I’ve never seen/heard it pitched in quite the same way as you have just done Marty. Not only did your video send me soaring like an eagle with happiness that you have grown so much since I first heard about your arrival out of the cos, but now I will involve myself with the Tao with more than a light scan. This is the most amazing video I’ve seen yet. I loved every word of it! Thank you Marty. I love the fact that you have left only the building of the church and kept the Power and use it so well. Hat’s off to you! Kudos! : )

  44. For the most part I agree but think an important point needs to be mentioned. Your characterization of a person moving up the ‘bridge’ in Scientology is a bit confining. Yes, I have seen those as you mentioned (white knuckles and all) but I have also witnessed individuals become more uptone and encompass and increase their acceptance and perception of those around them. And take on a ‘natural’ inclusive beingness. As a person moves up the tone scale they become more and more pan-determined. You cannot expect a lower toned individual to all of a sudden accept a pan determined point of view no matter how much it makes sense to do so.

    I’ve done most of my upper bridge and along with many friends have come more uptone in the process and have included aspects of life, which before might previously, have been taboo. I think there is a natural order to life and Scientology auditing unleases and encompasses this natural order. The best thing a person can do is to avail themselves of standard auditing. They will naturally start to include and encompass all of life if it is done right. It’s a natural phenomena. More uptone. More inclusive.

    Marty, I think the ones you mention didn’t really get all of the gains nor move up the tone scale. If one is moving up the tone scale all of this just happens automatically. One encompasses life. It did for me and did for most of my friend.

  45. All true paths lead to this one state: when the mind ceases to vibrate objectivity and subjectivity into existence Self/Truth/Freedom is realized. What ever practice stills the wavelength of mind/thought is the best path. And there are many effective techniques from various traditions. Practice practice practice!

    When the dreamer awakes from a dream, where does the dream go? It resolves back into the dreamer. The mind ceases to vibrate that dream into existence. When a wave crests in the ocean and resovles back into the ocean, is the essence of the wave dead? No, it has never left the ocean. It was always the ocean, but it’s individual existence cause by undulation/wavelength gave it a sense of individuation.

    And what remains when all of creation is dissolved and resolved back to the dreamer?

    Bliss, joy, love, peace, power for ever and ever: Freedom!! Because that is what we are.

  46. Or maybe Graduation at the Org is communicating to others your witnessing. I think the definition here is a little different than the usual “witnessing for jesus” type definition I am used to.

  47. Great message, Marty. I totally agree with the “Yang on steroids” description. I also agree with the idea that we need to understand Scientology in context and that there is no harm in learning.

    One message that resonated was the idea of the “watcher watching the watchers.” I mean – who has the “authority” to be ultimate qual? No one. This is why having to put orgs there (but “doing it right this time”) is not the answer to Scientology. Yes, there ought to be organized groups of people, but the idea of a top-down hierarchy of authority is flat-out wrong. That ship has sailed and we have corporate Scn.

    But, also – this is one thing that I truly realized these last couple of years meeting you and others on this blog – Scientology is alive. It will survive and is surviving, because individuals are doing it.

    Ron talks about “this brief moment in history” and how we may lose it. I have to disagree with Ron on this one. The cat is out of the bag – the tech is documented and is being practiced. But besides the tech, I believe people in general are evolving into better beings. I believe we collectively are waking up. I think Ron did not really grasp the power of his own technologies – it grew bigger than him.

    I read with interest the last page of “Going Clear” – Steve Pfauth’s account of Ron’s last days. As I read it, I thought to myself “of course he would think that.” I believe he thought it A. got away from him, and B. he missed it because at the end of the day, his body got too much to handle. This is, of course, my opinion. But, I read it as a freeing thing – we are free. It is our tech. Ron took it as far as he could go, and he succeeded in doing amazing things, but he did not get to the goal of fully operable OTs able to shed their bodies.

    But that is okay. We have it, and as you noted, it works when applied, and we don’ need no stinkin’ badges.

    Thanks for this note Marty.

    And happy birthday, Ron!

  48. Marty,

    Duplicated and agreed upon! Thanks man.

  49. I’m up to the point you are making about Yen and Yang. I totally agree that the auditing process is Yen energy and that is the part of Scientology that I liked the most. The Yang stuff gave me some wins too but the cults obsession with the Yang mentality is what really destroyed it. That is really because dm is a Yang and he is probably getting testosterone injections.

  50. Forever Lurker

    Now you’re talking! The written article on integration was too difficult for me.

    Your plain-language video is crystal clear and terrific. I’ve been on your suggested path for seven years now and it’s the way to go.

    Sage advice. Good work!

    If you make your next big book clear and direct like this, you’ll have a winner . . . because what you’re talking about IS “the road to truth.”

  51. +1

    I too got that Marty wasn’t ever talking about alterations, but like you I am glad he has now made that very clear.

    And I loved that for one thing he referenced LRH and the Phoenix Lectures for his views. The excerpt below could be summed up as the yin and yang of the East and West with a balance of the two being the original intention for Scientology. It just seems to me that LRH at a certain point made a very incorrect estimation of effort in the direction of too much yang. Here’s the excerpt:

    “And so we can look back across a certain span of time, across a great many minds, and into a great many places where man has been able to sit still long enough to think, through this oldest record and find where it joins up with the present, and to what we in Scientology are rightly indebted. For to say that out of whole cloth, and with no background, that a westerner such as myself should suddenly develop all you need to know to do the thing they were trying to do, is an incredible and an unbelievable and an untrue statement. Had the information of the Veda not been available to me, if I had not had a very sharp cognizance of earlier information on this whole track, and if at the same time I had never been trained in an American university which gave me a background of science, there could not have been enough understanding of the western world to apply anything eastern to. And we would have simply had the eastern world again. But the western world has to hit with a punch. It has to produce an effect. It has to get there. Nobody urged Asia to get there. You could sit on a mountaintop for a thousand years and it was perfectly alright with everybody in the whole neighborhood. They’d pick you up for vagrancy in the west.

    “So we combined the collective wisdom of all those ages with a sufficient impatience and urgency, a sufficiency of scientific methodology, and I think by the way that Gautama Sakyamuni probably had a better command of scientific methodology than any of your chairs of science in western universities. We have to depend though upon this scientific methodology and mathematics, and so forth, to catalyze and bring to a head the ambition of ten thousand years of thinking men. And if I have added anything to this at all, it has simply been the urgency necessary to arrive, which was fairly well lacking in the eastern world.”


  52. Thank you for the Video Marty.
    Very appreciated.


  53. Marty I think you are talking from a very priviledged position, meaning that you were able to absorb the message of Scientology fully, you have been able to apply all the various tecniques and see the results in front of your eyes, and you also have seen the tremendous weight and the huge baggage that comes with the “cult” think.
    So from your position you are expanding your view and feel this need to integrate, a need to evolve, a need to reach higher horizons.
    I do think that the majority of Scientologists or ex Scientologist did not have this chance, or did not apply themselves enough on it, or the baggage weight was too much. And so the struggle is still to absorbe the subject in its essence, in all its validity, in all the aspects of its true application.
    And so this is the quest that most have. Yes I agree that one reaches a point where all this marvel called Scientology need to be experienced for real in your life, and that talking the talk is not enough any more, and one feels the need to walk the walk. I think this will come for evrybody that truly walks this route to its end. The integration will then be a very natural thing, one will have to let go, for real. One will have at one point to evolve, reach for an higher plateau of existence and life and conciousness.
    It is possible that this, due to wrong “education” and “indoctrination”, is avoided and shunned, rejected, repelled, avoided, and one takes the easiest route of just talking the talk.
    I have one firm intention in this lifetime, and this intention is to become OT once and for all, and I am sure that can’t be achieved if one does not walk the walk.
    Thanks for doing that my friend!

  54. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Thank you ! 🙂

  55. The yin and yang diet, to be positively right in between
    and so the middle road, consists of organically cultivated
    brown rice cooked so as not to lose any nutrition. That’s
    all! It becomes very simple. Anybody here might remember
    the “Paradox” in New York City in the late 60’s, which was
    frequented by a lot of Scientologists. Talk about integration
    at that time.

  56. Very very nice Marty!!!

    It reminded me of a time long ago I went to Disneyland and went
    on a ride into an atom. We progressed further and further in
    through the proton and neutron until we came to a point where
    scientists had not figured out what the next smaller particle was.
    Well now research have found even smaller and then, what’s
    the next thing they will discover? Possibly smaller until Axiom
    1 comes into play.

    Thanks Marty for being the possible catalyst in integrating LRH
    research into the circles of sciences (IMHO).

  57. Marty f it helps to see you explain things in person in a video. Thanks for taking the time to do that. So much gets missed in print.
    Now I get a better sense of where you are coming from and what you are trying to convey. I hear loud and clear that you see the Tao as a significant means to walk the walk. The eminent means in your view. This resonates with me. Whenever I read Lao Tzu, I feel something within. Something in me resonates, opens up, blossoms, awakens. Something very real, yet intangible happens within me.

    I particularly love these two quotes by Lao Tzu:
    “I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures.” And:
    “Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love.”

    What a program for life. What a walk to walk..I am 63, and I feel that I have only walked a few inches on the endless road to fulfillment that Lao Tzu is pointing at..

    I very much appreciate your emphasis on walking the walk. Walking is what being human is about. What worth are knowledge or talk to me and to others if I can’t walk the walk?

    I imagine walking the talk ties into what you call “horizontal learning”. I thirst for vertical as much as horizontal learning. This short time on earth is the only time when it is possible to walk the walk. And to enjoy that.
    Thank you to Lao Tsu for leading this way. And thank you to you for pointing this out.

  58. The new Pope is a Jesuit, good news for Catholicism. The founder of this religious order is sometimes referred to as the “Buddha of Catholicism”.

    Recommended reading for integration and transcendence: Spiritual Exercises by Ignatius of Loyola.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Claudio, nice analogy on ‘the weight.’ I think we get far along that path by helping take the weight off that folks have been carrying along.

  60. I finished the clip.
    Excellent Marty. I think this was what people (or some people) have been wanting to hear from you. I must admit , that before this video, your blog had become a bit dispersing in terms of what you were trying to get at. At least from my view. This video has summed up everything very nicely.
    I also wanted to say that I have seen a change in you as well. It seems that your Yin energy has increased and your Yang has decreased, making you a more balanced person.

  61. martyrathbun09

  62. Thanks Marty,
    Loved the song and the video!
    And by the way, in last three days we helped getting the weight off by getting one CLEAR, One NOTs Completion and just today Renata had a Life Repair Completion…. we love it!!!

  63. 🙂 – Just re-watched the movie the other day. Awesome!

  64. Excellent Marty. I have learned things I cannot verbalise. Balance is important in physics, biochemistry, justice, politics, and just putting the left foot in front of the right foot. Stands to reason that it is important in cognitive reasoning and spirituality. I just never thought about it until you explained it. You are really good at this. Always love the videos – you come through in person even better than when you write. Which is saying something.

  65. I like to Yang on my Yin from time to time.
    Is that bad?

  66. martyrathbun09

    I saw it not too long ago; meaningful pic.

  67. martyrathbun09

    You all are fantastic.

  68. In the C of S, yes, very bad.

  69. Thanks for the message Marty. This is my instant feedback:

    1. Forget about the philosophy. You and Mosey clearly do not age. We need to tap into that DNA and research that. This will greatly enhance life for us Yins. Imagine how our tone will rise up when we discover how to counter act the aging process!

    comedy aside…..

    2. Education is a valid therapy. Hubbard said training even in Scientology is 50% of the bridge. The bridge in Scientology is not a lifetime consuming challenge to master. That adventure only lasts so long, that road has an end. IF you have a terminal that is sincerely interested in getting another up the bridge. Many folks in Scientology are not interested in seeing a person move forward towards the end.

    Education is an eternal adventure. Any learning is case gain. We will be given an education in life as long as there are “meet up” planets. There is nothing “anti Scientology” about encouraging people to educate themselves. In fact, it is described by Hubbard as a valid therapy, right along with auditing.

    3. I prefer to think with this idea of balance and synergy, rather than the very elementary and basic theory of cause and effect. Even the purpose of cause and effect is senior in mechanics to the cause and effect itself.

    Your message was a very calming one for me to think with. You open the door to valid therapy within every person’s grasp and present a purpose of harmony within life, which is an attainable goal if people better understand conditions.

    Yin and Yang are conditions also.

    I do not think very well with “feminine” and “masculine” properties , as I have always assumed a thetan has every potential . Mere words issued to another can make them feel every masculine or very feminine.
    This is evident in auditing.

    But as you state the positive PURPOSES of Yin and Yang, it becomes something I can think with very easily. These purposes need not be in conflict. They can be in contribution towards one another in a purpose to achieve harmony.

    The CofS, awash in the sea of Yang, may be so, as Hubbard defines survival as a proper combination of Intelligence and force. These are qualities mostly assigned to men. And calling all of the females in the Sea Org “Sir” certainly discounts any Yin qualities that could be wanted or needed in the group. Dressing them up as men in military garb does not help. I was forbidden from wearing my jewelry as it was “out uniform”. I only managed to trade in my two inch heel plastic white pumps uniform issued (alone in my room) for four inch stiletto leather white pumps, without someone having a hissy fit. Forbidding women from having children certainly shifted them all the way into the Yang way of life.

    However, I noted against the backdrop of all of this, more than 95% of the class Xll’s at the base, the real value there, were women. The people involved with the hands on nursing required to have a care factor for the store to remain open at all and have any exchange with the community, was maintained by females. Even Debbie Cook, the C/O, Liz Astrguard, the C/O, Sharon whatever her last name is now, the C/O.

    Hubbard carefully defined and categorized women in S.O.S. into a fixed condition and only spoke of their possibilities in any favorable mention.

    His ideas of family are laid out on L12 and it is not cheerful or hopeful. I had to switch his ideas of charge around backwards and run out people I still loved or loved me to address connections. He only addresses hate there.

    The reason I see for the Yang on steroids, is that women were wholly excluded from the Scientology inner circle unless they were dressed up in soldiers uniforms and assigned themselves as “sirs”. Any display of femininity I displayed while in the Sea Org, such as going shopping for new lipstick or going to the beauty shop, were labeled “pts to the middle class” “other fish to fry” “distractions” ” reasonable” “or “being a body”. Really, I had to sneak to get my teeth cleaned.

    To spiff up the women at Celebrity Center L.A. they had to send in a MISSION! Get someone over to show them how to do their hair and make up!

    Yes! It is Yang on steroids . And David Miscavige has taken it a step further forbidding women to even have a purpose of having children right up to ordering them to impose domestic abuse on one another!

    That you even open a door here, to permit and encourage the value of women , and acknowledge it as essential, turns the meaning of Scientology around 180 degrees.

    This was a long time coming as the “Ying” has been excluded entirely. And WHY the CofS is a yang on steroids and lacking in every way, a nurturing atmosphere that is healthy and wholesome.

  70. Thank you Marty.

    To actually hear and see you speak – I really get it.

    Integration, yes.

    In my late teens, I had already run heavily into many other religions; eastern and western. I loved it, but the questions were far more real and far bigger and louder than a teenager from a country town could deal with, in fact, it was real, real overwhelm!

    Scientology, came as a blessed relief as a path to truth. One day, in the academy a year or two later, I saw exactly, exactly, what I should do to connect scientology in the bigger game.

    It was way above my case level and as a country educated person way beyond my social skill level, it could have been so easily ridiculed (if I had even mentioned it) and it seemed absolutely totally impossible within the remit of the church itself, even back then.

    Also, there was the problem of how to be taught by the Russian master (who was already dead…) of the field I was interested in.

    Because of huge debt, I had to move to another continent and start again. Free from the church I followed this goal as best I could with limited finance. With some attention on the goal, and after some years, I came literally ‘by chance’ to be taught by a head of school whose professor in Russia had been taught directly by and had worked professionally with the exact source of this other field…

    I am half way through my Ls, I will train some more, and get on to my Nots as expediently as finance and time allow.

    Integration is my aim.

    I know exactly what you mean.

    I know the exact goal for my self.

    Each of us can look and find an area of life where you know, regardless of any limitations of self that you belong. Don’t worry about the lack of things to achieve it, just follow it, contribute to it… There you find you life’s work….

    From everything I have learnt I have learnt this, it has been a thirty year quest, it is probably fortunate I started it young.

    But now, is the time in the history of Scientology!

    I urge anyone to shrug off any negative effects of the troubles of the church.

    We have in this sort of vacuum, the fresh opportunity to build the future ourselves. For the first time we have access to the tech in such a way as to do it ourselves in the way we know how.

    And I believe each one of us can find for each one of us the means whereby – of all people; don’t judge yourself… Just follow what you can perceive as what really interests you, what is that really turns you on – you already know it. Yes?

    Yours is good advice – I shall obtain this copy you recommend as another step on the journey.

  71. Marty, you know as I started Scientology and moved up the Bridge I had a lot of wins and a great deal of it all made sense to me….yet the higher I moved up the more heavy handed the organization became, the more I could see baggage that you speak of and even more as I look back over my shoulder. Ethics that were distorted to fit what they wanted to accomplish….certainly not the greatest good.
    As I continued, the more Yang I experienced and in a very big way. Yep that organization just wasn’t walking the walk. It became a very tough thing to live with, being a part of an organization that didn’t walk the walk.

    I couldn’t agree with you more on the integration across the board period. I wanted the balance you speak of and what you have to say totally indicates to me.I have not read The Tao but will start.

    You compadre truly make a huge difference!

  72. Thanks for clarifying. There are several other religious traditions that use the term “witness” to mean “testifying”, or telling others what you believe has been divinely revealed to you. For instance, Jehovah’s Witness or any of several Pentecostal or fundamentalist Christian sects. I couldn’t make that definition quite fit with what you were saying.

  73. Amen to all that Marty 🙂

  74. That was from Vaclav Havel, a playwright and one-time president of Czechoslovakia.

  75. Tony DePhillips

    Yes, but have you ever Yanged on your yin Grasshopper?

  76. Yes, but most non-Scientology techniques still the vibrations of the mind only by key-out rather than erasure. The inconvenient truth about the enlightened sages of the past is that while the awareness many of them achieved was real, they couldn’t keep it permanently, because eventually something not erased would key in again. LRH’s task was not to produce more temporary enlightenment, but to get to the ultimate root of the problem and erase it permanently. I don’t think he got all the way there, but what he gave us was not just another path. It was a fundamentally different path that does something no previous path did. Thus Scentology can complement other more directly spiritual paths, and vice versa. Choose whatever other path resonates best with you, but don’t leave out Scientology no matter what else you do.

  77. Oddly, I found the last 2 pages of “Going Clear” to be freeing, too. At first it was a bummer, but then something blew, and I felt freer than before to make the future. I also felt significantly more motivated to actually do that.

  78. Also, he took the name Francis and he loves the poor.
    St. Francis is my favorite Catholic.
    Great future for this Church.
    The Cardinals pulled it off.

  79. darkest hour

    In some meditation and theraputic techniques witness means a self observing of mental contents and physical sensations without reacting to what is observed: to not move away (reject) to not move toward (desire) but to be equanimous with “what is.” In practicing this one may transcend one’s own singular “point of view” and thoughts feelings and actions may align with “what is.” Some feel this is an amoral way but they overestimate the individual’s power to change through willing and underestimate or even fail to notice the Tao which is changing everything everywhere all the time.

  80. theosismanides

    FL, I agree. Written speech is more difficult to get especially when it comes to some higher and not so down-to-earth ideas. LRH in the Translations Series

    Issue II
    REISSUED 23 OCTOBER 1974 Tape Course Series 1

    COURSE TRANSLATION TO TAPE says the following:

    “Translating Dianetic, Scientology study materials into foreign languages is inexpensively and effectively done by using “sight” (instantaneous) translation of bulletins, policy letters and tapes onto tapes.”


    LRH goes on to say various things about the Tape Translations and how they should be done.

    And then at the end of the bulletin he adds:

    “Learning rate in an aural society is much higher than in a society accustomed to print.

    Even an illiterate person or a slow reader can be taught such a means.”


    May I repeat that I got kicked out of the Sea Org for insisting on that system of Tape Translations and which was in HCOBs.

    But I see the value of all this as I think we all got more of Marty’s message from this presentation for such reasons. We have long ways to go to be fully cleared of symbols, and printed symbols (the printed word) I think sometimes get even more difficult.

  81. Wow… iPhone literally posted that without me touching it… V. Funny as this is what I meant to post;


    No words…. Just….


    Well… Two words…

    Thank you.

  82. And who are you, the master of TR films or something?

  83. Tom Gallagher


    Warm thanks ‘Ke-mo sah-bee’ for this update and elucidation.

    Yeah, we don’t need no Big Brother, i.e., SCN Inc., or any future abominable incarnation.

    Not to overrun this, but Phil’s video mirrors some of your points. I still perceive that thought and feeling that hearkens back to the old days when and whereby Dianetics was literally taking the world by a storm. Then something changed.


    Nothing was lost. It’s a matter of carrying on.

  84. Focus, Marty is correct. I have come to admire his wisdom a great deal more. If L. Ron Hubbard were alive today he would learn a great deal more about how HIS philosophy can work well in the real world. Not a real world imagined about or dreamed about in HCOPL’s but in real life. After all we are the survivors. The Church of Scientology, based on it’s founders beliefs has a way of condemning anything that is religious that is not based on L. Ron Hubbard’s writings. If once a week I want to burn candles at midnight and annoint flowers with essential oils in the sexiest clothes I can find, with the hottest body I can imagine, am I evil? Do I have to have implants or engrams in order to honor the 5th dynamic?

  85. Very nice, Gretchen

  86. Well, that’s a good explanation as any for the breakup of LRH and Nibs. It was a big freaking deal, and sparked research into Blow-offs and O/Ws.

  87. Diogenese, you know this about other practices and sages being keyed out how?

  88. Sorry, I think my wording may be unclear Diogenes. How do you know this to be true? Your assumption that they were only keyed out and not permanently liberated.

  89. theosismanides

    Marty, I think your video was fantastic.

    We are dealing with long distance comm lines and with other factors such as the printed words. On top of that we are dealing with all kinds of such small but important aspects and details of various scientific or philosophic subjects, that sometimes things are hard to get.

    We are all in this life trying to find better ways to get along with others and live life. The Yin and the Yang (Intelligence and Force? from the Free Being?) do apply and are basic in life. It’s like Reach and Withdraw or let’s say Withdraw and Reach in this case.

    I do agree Marty that there is a side in the cult that is too Forceful. You have had your share of this. We all did to a bigger or lesser degree. I though got a lot of the Yin side, too and as someone said above, maybe some people didn’t reach that point of the Yin Scientology. We are not Yang Cannibals… here… We all got that Yin side of things in Scientology by letting some mass blow as you say.

    The wonderful thing though is that we are all moving up a little higher because we finally come to duplicate each other.

    To try to make my point clearer I would like to post this definition of Art by LRH:

    ART, a word which summarizes the quality of communication. It therefore follows the laws of communication. Too much originality throws the audience into unfamiliarity and therefore disagreement, as communication contains duplication and “originality” is the foe of duplication. Technique should not rise above the level of workability for the purpose of communication. Perfection cannot be attained at the expense of communication. (HCOB 30 Aug 65)

    The following Axiom I find very valuable:

    It’s from Axioms of SOP-8C (from Creation of Human Ability). I posted all axioms pertaining to DUPLICATION.


    FUNDAMENTAL: The basic action of existence is duplication.

    LOGIC: All operating principles of life may be derived
    from duplication.

    AXIOM: Communication is as exact as it approaches duplication.

    AXIOM: Unwillingness to be cause is monitored by unwillingness to be duplicated.

    AXIOM: Unwillingness to be an effect is monitored by unwillingness to duplicate.

    AXIOM: An inability to remain in a geographical position brings about an unwillingness to duplicate.

    AXIOM: An enforced fixation in a geographical position brings about an unwillingness to duplicate.

    AXIOM: Inability to duplicate on any dynamic is the primary degeneration of the thetan.

    AXIOM: Perception depends upon duplication.

    AXIOM: Communication depends upon duplication.

    AXIOM: In the MEST universe, the single crime is duplication.

    FORMULA VIII: The primary ability and willingness of the thetan to duplicate must be rehabilitated by handling desires, enforcements and inhibitions relating to it on all dynamics.

    The Creation of Human Ability

  90. Hi Tom,

    Um… I hope everyone can take the time to watch this. If not the whole thing then at least go to 6:20 and press play.

    In my view this one truth is at the heart of why scientology became the train wreck that it is today.

    …he could never say ‘I was wrong’…

    Not sure i totally believe all that is being said by Mr. Spickler but that is one thing you need no further evidence of. And it’s a doozy. A big phat one.

  91. This has spilled into the Independent arena as well by the way. The last disagreement I had with an Independent tech person because he was out tech, he brushed off to others by telling them I just “didn’t understand” and he was “speaking over my head” and the tech was “over my head”. Positioning me as just a stupid female incapable of knowing.

  92. Good to know, but that also doesn’t fit with what Marty was saying. He was obviously using the definition he gave above, “to have personal or direct cognizance of”.

  93. Bruce didn’t say that just because LRH said it, that that made it true.
    He only said that LRH said it.
    LRH, like everyone else, has a right to say things which are true for him.
    Whether things he said are true for you is for you to determine.

  94. And that’s another thing. 🙂 Recently I came upon a story of two married members of the church (public people at Flag) that have struggled for the last couple of years to put their kids through college while the went up the Bridge. That’s great. Do their educated children wish now to become:

    A. Cult group members?
    B. Sea Org members?
    C. Flag public?

    Why not finance David Miscavige’s GED and possibly college too so he grasp what it is he trying to administrate over?

    I have nicknamed the Church of Scientology – “The Church of Misunderstandings and Conflicts”.

    Food for thought! 🙂

  95. I meant; Yinned your Yang. Big difference!!

  96. Globetrotter

    Really? “I found the only way, and anyone who has a different opinion is wrong. I have the last word in religion, all other religions are missing the point…” 🙂

    Sounds all too familiar…

    I would respectfully argue that that is the exact thing you would have gotten out of Scientology. I’m happy for you that you have found your way but which Tao have you read and where did you find THAT in it…? My copy is missing that part…

  97. Marty, I watched your video. Very nicely done. I have a number of questions that only you could answer, given I am most interested in your perspective regarding them. Nonetheless I will ask only one here & now.

    You mention going up the bridge on numerous occasions in the video. And you have been involved in Scientology for numerous years. Have the majority of OTVII’s and or OTVIII’s you have met and interacted with over the years been so spiritually enlightened that your experience of them is what supports your commitment to recommending the Scientology Bridge to people at large? I ask this because most OT VII’s and OT VIII’s I have met appear to be anything but spiritually enlightened beings. Quite frankly, it’s to the contrary. Or is your promotion of the bridge based primarily and or solely upon your own first person experience of it?

    You are a credible witness. I am merely wondering whether you are basing your recommendation of doing the scientology bridge based upon the OT’s you have met, or based on your own individual experience.


  98. Grasshopper (Mark P)

    Well yangs will be yangs after all!

  99. Off topic perhaps , but today happens to be L. Ron Hubbard’s actual birthday.
    The Church of Miscavige celebrates the occasion on whatever date will result in the highest attendance at POB’s events and thereby generate the most renue, usually the nearest weekend.
    But today, March 13th is Ron’s real birthday.
    One side of Ron is that he liked people to address him simply as “Ron” rather than “Mr. Hubbard” or with some other formal title.
    I just thought I would mention it because, personally, I am glad that he showed up on this planet on March 13th, 1911 in Tilden, Nebraska. My opinion is that, despite any foibles, the world is a better place for a lot of people because he was here.

  100. My personal experience, in this lifetime but mostly whole track, with them and as one of them. Nothing I can prove to you, however. But then how do you know that your assumption that they’re permanently liberated is true? And how do you know that what seems to be liberation isn’t just a new trap at a much higher wavelength?

  101. Good pitch Marty. You’re reminding me that I should read the Tao Te Ching again. I read it one year ago for the first time. At that time when I received the book package from my mail box and held it in my hands – before even opening the package – I said to myself: “This is familiar. I know what’s in this book.” And then I read the book and found I was right.

  102. Brian, just try doing something. Try Michael Bernard Beckwith, for example, LIFE VISIONING. You’ll be keyed out out of your mind and floating TA for a week or a month. Nothing in that or other things I looked into contradicts Scientology, by the way, these methods are simply not thorough. Beckwith takes you from a basic lock scanning on being a victim to the highest OT levels in about 6 hours which probably only works if you are already high on the Bridge. Otherwise, you’d have to repeat the same procedures every day forever to stay stable.

  103. Sage words, Marty.

    The way is the way and that’s all there is to it. Certainly one can use scientology to find and travel the way. Getting the original work of the Tao Te Ching under one’s belt as part of this journey will help immeasureably.

  104. Marty……..Brilliant………simply brilliant!
    You are really are on top of this situation.
    You chrystalized the whole situation to a point of
    undebatability; in my estimation.
    Even though we are thousands of miles apart,
    the stone wall behind you in this video
    is exactly like the stone wall on my property!
    “Just Sayin”

  105. My favorite song. Levon Helm (drummer), RIP my brother.

  106. Larry, your question was to Marty and I am not answering it but I wanted to stick my 2 cents: Yin/Yang, balance. No need to terminally accept or completely reject the Bridge. It is what it is and it does what it does–which is not making OTs but making pre-OTs. The Upper Bridge is just one thing you can and possibly should do but In my experience I had to look beyond the upper Bridge and in several completely different directions to get a more or less complete understanding of what I need to do spiritually and where I am going. I wouldn’t get it or the results I got by just doing the Bridge and getting negative gain.

  107. Larry,
    What are some of the defining characteristics that you consider should be present when being in the space of spiritually enlightened beings?

  108. Thank you for making that clear Marty. I know without a doubt that I `belong` right where I am right now. Its a nice feeling and to be in a most comfortable position to take time to understand where you coming from and what you are saying. So in sink with the here and right now Marty. Thanks, Cece

  109. Tony, we could start a new genre of jokes –

    ” A Buddhist, a Scientologist, and a Daoist walk into a bar during Happy Hour. There are a lot of women there…..”

    Anyway, Yin and Yang has a lot of possibilities…. seems me and some of my high school buddies had some jokes like that……. but usually ended up Yinning our own Yangs….

  110. I tend to look to the mystical in my life – find meaning in what appears to be merely a coincidence so today March 13 – LRH’s birthday Marty shares a :22 minute talk about the importance of LRH’s work, it’s difficulty as it became too yang-ish and how he, as an auditor integrate from other traditions, yet not changing the tech and uses as his basis the Tao.

    Hours later a new Pope was chosen in 2 days not 5, as predicted. The first Pope from Latin America and the first Jesuit. A humble Cardinal who chose to live not in the Cardinal Palace but in an apartment, taking public transport instead of chauffeured to work.

    LRH spoke highly of the Jesuits and their education roots. This Pope chose the name Francis – signifying St. Francis of Assisi – patron to the poor, animals and the environment.

    This is one of my favorite prayers.
    Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi

    Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
    Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
    where there is injury, pardon;
    where there is doubt, faith;
    where there is despair, hope;
    where there is darkness, light;
    and where there is sadness, joy.

    O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
    to be consoled as to console;
    to be understood as to understand;
    to be loved as to love.
    For it is in giving that we receive;
    it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
    and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen


  111. Great post again Marty! Right on time. My take on Scientology seems to back it up. Reading the Phoenix Lectures back in the day really got my attention. the part about Scientology’s ‘background’.made total sense to me coming from an Eastern background myself.

    But I always after that saw the ‘yin and yang’ in Scientology. It’s right there in the Communication Formula – one must be able to be both ’cause'(yang), and ‘effect'(yin) to communicate. One must be able to shift from one to the other as needed, especially to be a good auditor.

    In a lecture early in the 4th London ACC, which Ron gave right after the Phoenix lectures I believe, Ron talks about the sole purpose of auditing – “To increase the ARC of the preclear”. He definitely says that is the SOLE purpose of auditing.

    He goes on to talk about what makes a ‘good’ auditor vs. a ‘bad’ auditor, and says the difference is, the ‘bad auditor’ tries to create an effect on the preclear. Trying to create an effect on the preclear, puts the pc at effect, he is actually decreasing the pc’s ARC, lowering him on the scale instead of raising him. Because what the pc needs is to be more towards ’cause’, higher in ARC.

    How ‘taoist’ is that? I’d say Ron was right there, at that time!

    And it takes a guy who is up there himself, to be that good an auditor. And it looks to me like Marty is right there too.

  112. I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate the diversity of perspectives that are openly shared on Marty’s blogs. It’s a real treat for me! Incredibly stimulating! Lots to integrate.

    Speaking of perspective, I define perspective as simply being the interpretation of perception. And it is perspectives that we integrate. I’m beginning to think that there is no such thing as Knowledge in this universe, that this is a universe of perception only. Perhaps it is each of us integrating perspectives that will ultimately build a bridge out of perception, out of this illusory universe and back to Knowledge.

    Neuroanatomist Jill Bolte Taylor shares a very interesting left brain (yang) right brain (yin) perspective in this video.

  113. Hi Marty, I like your description of the Tao being the Yin to Scientology’s Yang. When I read the copy you gave me I had similar thoughts in that it is a sort of Ideal Scene without which we cannot recognize departures from. These departures can certainly be in terms of the workability of any technology, but the evaluation of technology on its own is probably the easy part. I think the “baggage” you speak of in what Corp Scn has become stems from the fact that this Ideal Scene is intentionally occluded which allows followers to evaluate the effectiveness of the technology and the organization only upon the data they are fed…which is not a freedom at all. Thanks for the post. Doug

  114. Don’t know what circles you travel in but my experience with people who have stayed in Scientology and continued the one route….they are still dramatizing the exact same things they did when they first got in…..2 guys I know who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on auditing are still stuck in all the same crap they was stuck in when I met him 25 years ago…..Scientology is NOT inclusive…’s EXclusive….they pride themselves on being separate.

  115. Yes! Integration. How to be GradV and raise happy, independent, successful daughters. How to be happy and successful in my own business. How to have a happy, fun, lasting 2D relationship. How to be a part of my Catholic sisterhood. Integration. Amen brother.

  116. LOL agreed Path of Buddha…

  117. Yin and Yang in perfect harmony.

  118. +2 follow the Bridge exactly and integrate. We have to. It’s a new paradigm here.

  119. Randall Cook

    Hi Marty,
    Great video! You are always informative about expanding our comprehension of our path into OT. In my quest thru Scn over the past 35 years, I have had 4-5 times that I experienced states of exteriorizations and extraordinary abilities, probably minor to most on your blog. Some of these experiences have lasted a few hours and others have lasted many days.

    It has been a liberating experience to connect with you to read materials that you have suggested for me to read. There was always this underlining concept that all of us should only read LRH and nothing else even though you hear Ron saying throughout all of his lectures, referencing all of these great sources. I think that he meant for us to read them and not just take his word of them. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t, thinking that we weren’t all that intelligent from the get go. Just look at what the hell the Sea Org turned out to be – not too bright.

    I think that the common phenomena of going exterior and reaching that plateau of being outside of our bodies, out of the concrete MEST universe for whatever time period it was, kept us addicted to wanting to get back there, and follow all the rules and regulations that the org presented to us. We all experienced what we experienced. I never will forget a reply of a raw public person that I interviewed in San Diego back in 1977 when I was just a kid working for the SD org downtown. He was in line at a concert when I approached him for a Scn survey and he surprisingly told me that he really enjoyed the great cognitions and exteriorizations that he had but that they just didn’t last enough to keep him going on with it. Blew me away.

    Reading books and listening to audio books, watching videos, seeing what’s on YouTube, listening to others recommendations to expand our knowledge on the subject of OT, the Toa de Ching, Jesus Christ and the first testament, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, Psychologists on Sociopaths, can only expand our increase our knowledge and expand our ability to reach others thru the means of terms and philosophy that they understand and are more accustomed to. It doesn’t mean that we have to accept everything that is said in their materials is fact, but you can take the good out of their material to expand your understanding of what you believe to be true.

    How much knowledge can you absorb? As much as you want!

    I just bought the book that you recommended:
    Tao Te Ching: A New English Version
    By: Lao Tzu , Stephen Mitchell
    Narrated by: Stephen Mitchell
    Can’t wait to listen and study it,
    Hi Marty,
    Great video! You are always informative

  120. Marty,
    Thank you so much for this video. It’s brilliant and your sincerity is palpable. What you laid out here is a description of an ideal “Bridge to Total Freedom”, with unadulterated Scientology technical methodology being the bridge between the Tao/Buddhism (Yin) and Quantum Mechanics (Yang) – the Middle Way, which is what I believe LRH intended it to be. And, yes, knowledge of both ends of that spectrum is essential to achieving that balance. Thank you for your efforts in bringing it back to center.

  121. Love this Cowboy Piey

  122. LOL “smart phone” Cowboy Poet

  123. Awesome!

  124. Darkest Hour, thank you for your description of what “witness” means in some meditation and therapeutic techniques. It made me realize how what you described parallels what occurs in auditing – finding that which is “not-ised” (rejected), facing such mental contents and physical sensations without rejection (“isness”), and transcend it by de-powering its subconscious power and influence upon one (“as-is”), thereby achieving total equanimity towards it and recovered awareness.via/from the medium of the Tao (the Unified Quantum Field).

  125. Perfect. Dead-on point. +1

  126. Like it… Loved the smile at the end of the video.

  127. “Who in their right mind would practice a spiritual psychotherapy with people who look and act like they are part Federation’s troopers and part greedy car salesmen?”


  128. I don’t doubt that others have made it out to permanent liberation. I also don’t that that, having made it out, some have returned to help others out as well (i.e. Bodhisattvas). What LRH did is left behind a detailed, comprehensive route map of the path he discovered.

  129. Hear, hear.

  130. If I may interject my response to your question here, I recognize the phenomena you’re referring to. I would venture to say the majority you have met were in the Scn, Inc. sympathetic yang persona, and therefore you never really had the opportunity to meet THEM. Conversely, many of those who post on this blog are OT 7s and 8s and from what I have seen here the spiritual enlightenment is evident among them via their posts.

    Additionally, there is no convenient stereotype for for OT 7s and 8s, other than the synthetic one mentioned. They’re folks just like everyone else and therefore you’ll get all kinds commensurate with their native endowment of theta vs. their own remaining case.

  131. I hear ya….😊


    It’s all I strive for now…. And like your journey I now accept and even appreciate the “dark” part of the journey in the cult. Took me awhile to get there mind.


  132. I liked this:

    “We have to avoid the spiritual sickness of a self-referential church,” the new pope said before the conclave, according to the National Catholic Reporter. “It’s true that when you get out into the street, as happens to every man and woman, there can be accidents. However, if the church remains closed in on itself, self-referential, it gets old. Between a church that suffers accidents in the street, and a church that’s sick because it’s self-referential, I have no doubts about preferring the former.”

  133. Oh thank goodness! I’ve seen a few cow pies and I wouldn;t wanna be called Cowboy Pie.

  134. I agree, the organization does not allow study other than LRH.

    HCO Policy Letter 15 December 1965R Issue I revised 25 July 1987, STUDENT’S GUIDE TO ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR. Guideline #14. Do not engage in any rite, ceremony, or any similar religious treatment or mental therapy while on course without the express permission of the Director of Training.

    I’d be curious to know if anybody here has ever asked for or received such permission. I’ve never heard of it happening.

  135. Hi Christine,

    I’m on the iPhone so unfortunately I can’t read all the various comments below (they get reduced to a very long vertical column of single letters).

    In any event I just wanted to one say hi.


    And then offer what I have found to be infinitely beneficial regarding “witnessing”.

    I take a slightly different approach which is to strive for accepting.

    Observing, experiencing, understanding, etc, etc… All, to my mind anyway, is best brought to “acceptance”. It’s a very neutral place to be. It doesn’t require anything of me or another. It just is.

    I find it slightly more beneficial than witnessing in the sense that to witness possibly requires further effort to validate the “witnessing of” whereas to simply accept leaves things be, so to speak.

    Anyway… Perhaps it’s just my own journey/take in life… Feel free to “witness” this post and move on…😉

    Btw… Have always enjoyed your posts here… You invariably always make me smile…😊

  136. Rory Medford

    The best birthday gift for LRH would be for DM to step down, get out of the way and stop ruining SCN!

  137. I wonder about PL 4 Jul 62, Mixing Practices. I can’t find it online.

  138. martyrathbun09

    That reference does not say what you state it does. I’m about ready to cut you off. You apparently are not attempting to contribute to education here; but instead just attempting to cut down and discredit. Not appropriate to this forum.

  139. Alex Castillo

    Bruce and like minded people,
    Take a look at this, which is strait from the “horse’s mouth”:
    From Ability The Magazine of
    Phoenix, Arizona [1955, ca. mid-March]
    “Scientology is the science of knowing how to know answers. It is an organized
    system of Axioms and Processes which resolve the problems of existence.
    A Scientologist is a specialist in spiritual and human affairs.
    Scientology is organized from the viewpoint of the spirit and contains a precise
    and usable definition of the spirit, and charts and studies and is capable of
    changing the behavior of the spirit.
    This science is formed in the tradition of ten thousand years of religious
    philosophy and considers itself a culmination of the searches which began with
    the Veda, the Tao, Buddhism, Christianity, and other religions. Scientology is a
    Gnostic faith in that it knows it knows. This is its distinguishing
    characteristic from most of its
    predecessors. Scientology can demonstrate that it can attain the goals set for
    man by Christ, which are: Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality.” LRH

    From: SCIENTOLOGY 0-8 Copy Right 6th American Edition 1976



    “Subjects which were consulted in over a third of a century of
    organization and development of Scientology include the Veda; the Tao of Lao-Tze; the Dharma and the Discourses of Gautama Buddha; the general knowingness about life extant in the lamaseries of the Western Hills of China;the technologies and beliefs of various barbaric cultures; the
    various materials of Christianity; the mathematical and technical methodologies of the early Greeks, Romans and Arabians; the physical sciences, including the various speculations of western philosophers such as Kant, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Herbert Spencer and Dewey, and the various technologies extant in the civilization of both the Orient and Occident in the first half of the twentieth century. Scientology is an organization of the pertinencies which are mutually held true by all men in all times, and the development of technologies which demonstrate
    the existence of new phenomena not hitherto known, which are useful in creating states of beingness considered more desirable by man.”LRH

    To me, believing in a subject is not the same as KNOWING THE SUBJECT FULLY, IN ALL IT’S KNOWN ASPECTS.

  140. Thanks Michael. I understand.

  141. Hmm. I found the moderation policy. Let me read it more carefully. I certainly have no expertise that could help people with their processing. My comments are more to point out some inconsistencies for people who have left Scientology but have not left the cult of personality of LRH. I’ll shut up for now, it’s your sandbox and your rules.

  142. Lawrence, I love it. I would gladly donate to help pay for David Miscavige to become a Class Xll auditor and to do the OEC-FEBC. There’s nothing like “on the job training”, and better late than never.

    How many cars, clothes, airplanes can one take pleasure in before it begins to pall?

    Mr. Miscavige, take a page from the ancient Egyptians, who believed that the preservation of their most precious MEST was the key to their eternal life.Where is that religion today? Lots of well-preserved mest for people to look at but…

    Could this be what your Ideal Org strategy is really about – your immortality? Would you like to be immortalized as the Scientology Pharoah who built more churches than anyone else?

    Apologies to all for off-topic rant.

  143. Alex Castillo

    What gets me is the large number of people who call themselves Scientologists, some going a long way back, who are so ignorant of the most basic principles of the subject. I am willing to bet that the majority of Scnts who have done TRs ad infinitum, don’t even know (or never understood) the original axiomatic communication formula. I don’t have the exact quote but I would be grateful if you could post it here, for the benefit of those who don’t know.


  144. It’s that damned Bryan…

  145. Yangkee go home. 🙂

  146. Alex Castillo

    Scientology, as we knew it in the 50’s and 60’s and half the 70’s was not only ruined but destroyed after the Old Man ceased to lead it. DM stepping down would not make an iota of difference. His motivation is to make money. He’s not going to step down from continuing to make millions out of his successful scam. Do you see him quitting?

  147. Well now, that depends on what you mean by spiritual enlightenment.

    Do you mean like Ghandi? No possessions, living in service to all life?
    Do you mean like Babjii? No possessions, just a loin cloth, living in caves in the Himalayas?
    Do you mean continually successful in terms of possessions?
    Do you mean always sweet and kind and beautiful and forgiving?
    Do you mean able to read minds, perform miracles on demand, healing all with a single touch or thought?
    Do you mean always doing the right thing for everyone everywhere?
    Do you mean no further need or interest in embodiment, exiting forever this universe of illusion?
    Do you mean all of the above?

    Having done most of the bridge, I can tell you that the biggest problem I faced along the way was what others thought I should be, do and have. There was no interest in who I really am, and what I really experienced, just a never ending criticism of every step I took, every word I uttered, every failure I ever had, every joy, every hope, every dream, all of them under a magnifying glass of what each person thought I should be. If I had it to do all over again, I would do the auditing again, but the second time around I would tell no one that I was I doing it. That way I could enjoy and live and be without living under a microscope with people jeering or complaining or passing judgment on something they have not experienced and will never experience, after all, they are not me.

    These days I tell no one about what I the spiritual experiences I am having except anonymously on a blog. I tell no one I ever did the OT levels. I do not share my innermost reality with anyone. And those who think I am a fuck up, well, they have no access to what is reality for me. Frankly, I don’t give a flip for the social arena any more, and I really couldn’t care less what anyone thinks. I live a very, very simple life for I see no reason to accumulate wealth and power that ultimately has no meaning at the end of my physical existence. And I reserve the right to change my mind about that at any moment in time.

  148. Personally, I recommend “The Tao of Steve”

  149. Valkov: “One must be able to shift from one to the other as needed, especially to be a good auditor.”

    I think that backs up my observation that trained and experienced auditors are the ones you like to be around. They’re also the ones who aren’t critical of the philosophy or tech of Scientology because through personal experience they have “witnessed” its truth.

  150. I noted how much Marty’s comments about Scientology being “Yang on steroids” resonated with many. I Googled “Yang excess” and its consequences, and remedies. I found some really interesting content. Here are some excerpts by Dr. Pokea and others.

    “ In Western Culture, we are currently witnessing the effects of over-intense Yang without the necessary proportional balance of Yin. This driven yang energy narrows diversity and ignores our individuality and our relationship to the greater whole. Each time someone declares that their identity or culture is more important than every one else, they begin to live in the space of distorted, dominating Yang with Yin becoming equally unhealthy, in a state of delusionary compliance. Living in these narrow corridors blocks our evolutionary flow. The disharmony in the life force causes many to be de-spirited and disconnected from the entire body and Spirit of Creation. Imbalanced Yang energy manifests as a perceptual delusion in thinking that you can live ruthlessly in continual conflict with others and force your own, unrelenting, independent identity. Excessive Yang creates people who have a fierce, self-centered illusion of independence without regard to others. It creates unbridled abuse of power, controlling influence and infectious greed. Without healthy Yin they quickly become de-spirited and live as though they and others were disembodied creatures. On occasion, the mistakes they make in their ruthless pursuits are uncovered and they are called to task for their actions. When this occurs, other people who also have excessive) Yang may be merciless and even delight in seeing others sacrificed and punished, because they were once powerfully dominant.

    In Chinese Medicine, excessive Yang is considered “weak Yang” because it has little or no healthy Yin balance. To Chinese doctors, such a state is the antithesis of all creation, as Mother Earth itself is considered Yin. Chinese Medicine teaches that to heal excessive Yang, you first strengthen Yin and then weaken yang. It says that we need a strong reflective balance of Yin to have wise Yang actions that move our actions into harmony.”

    Next, I Googled: “How to increase Yin?”.
    Here are some excerpts of what I found:
    “To increase Yin, spend more introspective, relaxing, solitary time…… Pursue the spiritual, emotional, and intuitive inner sides of life………. Work with ideas and imagination. …….. Cultivate the inner nature by focusing on feelings of receptivity, humility, flexibility, and development of inner essence……….Have more harmonious relationships………….Have more relationships, and more harmonious relationships ………..Give yourself space to receive, feel nurtured and renewed… Be present and peaceful. …. Learn how to meditate, to calm and steady your mind. ………..Practice a gentle yoga……….. Spend more time with more friends who know how to take life easily……… Sleep more, at least 8 hours a night and take naps in the afternoon if you can. Take time over meals: eat slowly, chew well… Most of all, love all people, all creatures and the entire creation……

    Sounds like a nice program!
    Thanks for launching this interesting conversation, Marty!

  151. theo Sismanides

    The formula of Communication is: Cause, Distance, Effect, with Intention, Attention
    and Duplication WITH UNDERSTANDING. The component parts of Communication are Consideration, Intention, Attention, Cause, Source-point, Distance, Effect,
    Receipt-point, Duplication, Understanding, the Velocity of the impulse or particle,
    Nothingness or Somethingness. A non-communication consists of Barriers. Barriers
    consist of Space, Interpositions (such as walls and screens of fast-moving particles),
    and Time. A communication, by definition, does not need to be two-way. When a
    communication is returned, the formula is repeated, with the receipt-point now becoming a source point and the former source-point now becoming a receipt-point.

  152. I liked your message 🙂
    As my english is not so good I quote Dalai Lama to get my concept accross:
    “While pointing out the fundamental similarities between world religions, I do not advocate one particular religion at the expense of all others, nor do I seek a new ‘world religion’. All the different religions of the world are needed to enrich human experience and world civilization. Our human minds, being of different calibre and disposition, need different approaches to peace and happiness. It is just like food. Certain people find Christianity more appealing, others prefer Buddhism because there is no creator in it and everything depends upon your own actions. We can make similar arguments for other religions as well. Thus, the point is clear: humanity needs all the world’s religions to suit the ways of life, diverse spiritual needs, and inherited national traditions of individual human beings.”

    I agree completely with the concept of integration. Every person is different and unique and wants and needs a different approach to travel his own unique way to freedom, OT, bodhi, nirvana, ….. whatever one wants to call it. Deep inside we know what is meant – to be fully and completely ourselves again as being but also as being everyone – just being ALL dynamics. And there is NO enemy in this concept – no psychs, SPs, Davids, out-ethics-guys, whatever …


    thumbs up

  153. theo Sismanides

    Alex, I did post the formula. I don’t know about that formula it is not that hard to get. But on the axioms I have to say that things are different. Or even on the Factors. There are so much basic truth in all those things that… I don’t know. There is a lot of meaning into all this and it is not so easy to get and put in some order in one’s head.

    Understanding is a basic and some things sound too “complex” in their simplicity.

  154. Alex Castillo

    Theo, I found it:
    “Communication is the consideration and action of impelling an impulse or particle from source-point across a distance to receipt-point, with the intention of bringing into being at the receipt point a duplication and understanding of that which emanated from the source-point.” LRH
    So, how many of you Scientologist have ever read and fully understood the above definition? I wonder. It doesn’t only apply to verbal
    communication. It applies to Life. Some of the criticisms I have recently read concerning what Marty has been saying, seem to indicate that those critics have no idea of what communication really is.


  155. p.s. I specified trained and experienced auditors but more generally I would include anyone who has studied Scientology well enough to have a pretty good understanding of what it IS. That would include people like you, who I believe have read the books and listened to a lot of lectures. And I should add, haven’t been “molded” by the organization – the CoS.

  156. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for a great contribution to the conversation.

  157. “The Tao of Scientology” is another gem from Marty, that’s had quite a positive effect on me. It gives us a paradigm with which to understand our situation and what to do about it, that revives the spirit many of us entered Scientology with decades ago, and which we can use to make what we’re doing much more real and acceptable to today’s seekers.

    Ancient Chinese philosophy was based around the two seemingly opposing viewpoints of Taoism and Confucianism, as a Yin-Yang pair. Confucianism was Yang, in that it was concerned with structure and responsibility to one’s family and society as a practical means of survival. It was recommended as the path one should take when young. Taoism was Yin, and recommended as a path for later in life, after one had discharged his Confucian responsibilities. It was seen as a means of recovering from the unavoidable spiritual self-damage accumulated as a side effect of decades of Confucian Yang emphasis, and transcending the issue of survival to reach spiritual liberation. The overarching challenge was to keep Yin and Yang in balance in one’s life. Youth was seen as a Yin condition requiring a strong does of Yang, while old age a Yang condition requiring a revitalizing dose of Yin.

    The Western generation that came of age in the 1960’s felt the need to orient even more strongly than usual towards the Yin side, to counteract the Yang calcification that had developed in society. Bob Dylan sang, “Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command, because the times they are a-changin.” Some of us became political activists, some spiritual seekers, and some both.

    LRH had also been on a Yin path, trying to liberate people from the Yang domination of the medical, psychiatric, and religious establishment. But in the mid-60’s, the growing Yin side was threatening to become too strong. Auditing results were suffering from confusion and disorganization in the application of all the different procedures LRH had developed. There were a lot of squirrels spinning off. And Scientology was under attack from the Yang powers that be, and finding itself too Yin to effectively defend itself.

    So, LRH began adding more and more Yang to Scientology. In fairly rapid succession came the Grade Chart, KSW, Ethics, the Guardian’s Office, Standard Tech, confidentiality of advanced levels, and finally the dominance of the Sea Org with all the command and control admin procedures it used. For awhile, this additional Yang was beneficial, as it balanced the basic Yin nature of spiritual liberation so it could better succeed. Scientology became a more practical path for seekers floundering in Yin chaos as they explored the plethora of available Eastern philosophies and practices. It gave them a definite track to run on, and a definite organizational structure to be part of, in pursuit of their goals. As a result, Scientology boomed. But then the Yang side became too strong, and finally ran away with the game and effectively destroyed it, at least inside the Church. So, a lot of us swung back to the Yin side and left that organization.

    What was liberating to me about Marty’s article was that it reminded me that there is always an oscillation between Yin and Yang. They go out of balance first one way and then the other, but over time always seem to return to equilibrium. This is the “flow of the Tao.” One deals with the imbalances as they occur, but doesn’t allow himself to be seduced by them into losing awareness of the underlying equilibrium.

    There are many aspects of our current circumstances that could be viewed pessimistically. But they are all just imbalance to the Yang side. Spotting that, I found my Yin side waking up and re-establishing a higher-toned balance in my own attitude. Inflow, competition, solidity, and the past are part of the Yang side that we’ve had too much of for quite a few years now. Outflow, compassion, creativity, and the future are the way of the Yin side. I’d like to go with that for awhile.

    The political fragmentation in the Indie community is also Yang. It may seem to be Yin, in that it’s a reaction against the Yang of enforced conformity we experienced in the Church. But to the degree that it has itself become a structure that we keep imposing on ourselves out of the mistaken idea that it’s necessary as a means of avoiding re-enslavement to some New Indie Order, it’s just more of the Yang we’re trying to get away from. We need to just agree that we will have no central authority over us, and then drop all infighting, and just compassionately support each other, as most of us did in the hopeful Yin-oriented beginning of our Scientology careers.

    That’s my two bits on the Tao. Thanks, Marty, for being a finger pointing at the moon.

  158. darkest hour

    Thank you for extending the description and making the parallel to auditing. By choosing to say “parallel” you are not saying that these techniques are the same but you do offer a view from which to look at sameness and difference. This is useful for a person who, as well as any group of persons, is really an ecological system with delicate internal balances requiring strong, regulating outer defense. To know that one can discriminate, make distinctions and compare is to regulate – what to let in, what to let out, what to integrate.

  159. “Standard” auditing, not the squirreled version found within the church these days, is what I am referring to. This applied to an individual at the correct gradient with the intention to increase ability will raise the tone of the person. A higher toned person becomes more themselves and will automatically begin to follow the natural laws of life to a greater degree. Inclusion of new ideas is definitely within the scope of this personal expansion – this is a very simple concept and something I have personally observed time and time again. You don’t have to tell an uptone person to be good – they are already actively demonstrating this social characteristic. Just as you don’t need to tell an uptone person to expand their viewpoint – this is something they automatically are doing.

    Don’t take my word on this. Observe someone who has just received some standard auditing.

  160. Alex Castillo

    This is my response to the outrageous criticisms by so-called scientologist + the press about Marty’s recent communications on this blog;

    “Communication is the consideration and action of impelling an impulse or particle from source-point across a distance to receipt-point, with the intention of bringing into being at the receipt-point a duplication and understanding of that which emanated from the source-point. LRH”

    “DUB-IN, 1. any unknowingly created mental picture that appears to have been a record of the physical universe but is in fact only an altered copy of the time track. (HCOB 15 May 63) 2. the phrase out of the motion picture industry of putting a sound track on top of something that isn’t there . ( SH Spec 78, 6608C25) 3. a recording which is being manufactured by a recording. (5811C07) 4. imaginary recall—there is no pain dub-in. (DASF)”

    “DUB-IN CASE, this guy is manufacturing incidents and saying they’re real. (5206CM24F)
    Hubbard, L. R., (1975) Dianetics and Scientology”


  161. Re keyed out temporary nice but not fully enlightened people from other paths:

    Leaving past life recall aside for a moment as it is subjective and difficult to prove.

    One of the positive things about Marty’s present blog is the idea of ecumenicism being a good way of expanding awareness.

    The opposite is true as well. Being in a closed thought club system tends to paint all those outside that system within the limits of that closed system. So for instance, a fundamentalist Christian “knows” for certain that Buddhist aren’t saved because they don’t have Jesus. To have that closed system view a person would have to study and agree with the doctrines of Christianity and consider what they know to be the best truth and maybe the only truth.

    The goals, barriers, procedures, processes, dogma, doctrines, world view, theology, cosmology etc are all learned biases within a closed system.

    So a Scientolgist would have to first agree to all the words and teachings of L Ron Hubbard and then they can say with “full confidence” that all OTs but Scientology OTs are keyed out only.

    That is because:

    1) Ron is the only one to map out the road to total freedom ( he never made it himself so I don’t understand the reasoning to all others were keyed out but we are not)

    2) Ron said so

    3) I know all about it because of my past life

    4) I took comparative religious studies in school so therefore I know etc etc.

    Closed thought systems, when they are totalitarian, tend to see those outside the group as inferior, “keyed out only”.

    To make a statement like: all other teachers and students of other paths are only keyed out and not really enlightened, is, I’m sorry to be blunt, ignorant.

    Unless a person knows all of the practices and procedures, not just theoretically, of the subjects they are condemning to “only keyed out” their credibility factor is in the “only way cult closed thought club system”.

    It is a much broader world with “many wiser men than I”.

  162. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Brian. When I recognized that very thing – that it was arrogance of the worse kind to hold that no one else, by any other means, could possibly have transencended – real transcendence presented herself. Voila!

  163. Flexible Flyer

    I liked Scientology because it was not Eastern-like. As a famous Yogi once said, “I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early.”

    The first book I read on the subject I had to read twice. It was the Dancing Wu Li Masters. Thankfully it had a lot of illustrations. Michio Kaku books also enjoyable and accessible and also anything by the great Alan Watts.

  164. iamvalkov,

    Allow me to continue…

    A Buddhist, a Scientologist, and a Daoist walk into a bar during Happy Hour. There are a lot of women there… the Buddhist says to his two friends, “Brothers, just BE those women and you’ll no longer feel the spiritually-imprisoning need to HAVE them.” The Daoist says, “Brothers, we must detach ourselves from desire and recognize that women are but a beautiful expression of the one true way that is the Tao, which must not be defiled.” And the Scientologist says, “Fellas, I sense some Sec-Checking coming up in my immediate future.”

  165. martyrathbun09

    Nice. Were you the one who recommended The Tao of Phyics to me? Your description of the relation between Confucianism and Taoism bears a striking resemblance to one given in that book.

  166. martyrathbun09

    As another famous Yogi once said: when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

  167. A Serenity of Beingness. A poise about their presence. A countenance that betrays a hidden joy of being. A calm and quite demeanor as a standard expression with a display of unmistakable power/force when called for. A laughter that comes from deep within the belly and not from the throat, when amused. A distinct aura of loss when he/she leave ones company. A tendency to listen in lieu of speaking. To give in lieu of taking. To forgive in lieu of condemning. To smile in lieu of frowning. To help in lieu of hindering.

  168. Voila!

  169. No, that wasn’t me. I haven’t read The Tao of Physics.

  170. AnonOT, I feel sad that, after having done the OT levels, the only safe space for you to communicate your own truths is in anonymity. That said, I look forward to reading whatever you may want to share of yourself on this blog.

  171. martyrathbun09

    Something you might want to pick up. I think you would like it.

  172. Thanks Tom. I find Phil very interesting, and I was not aware of this group of videos. He seems to be a good natured and loyal friend, who is still working to come to his own understandings, which were violated. A friend like this in my kitchen would soon cause me to forget any enemies out in the yard.

    Ken Urquhart has these qualities as well. Hubbard had so many great friends and attracted some fine company. Why he focused on enemies at all against the backdrop of such treasure , …… he did insist that men were troublesome creatures. But certainly not men such as Phil and Ken.

  173. Spoken like a true Jesuit.
    This new Pope has traction.

  174. This comment is aimed at people who try to discredit Scientology as a subject based on LRH’s real and imagined personal flaws.

    I actually knew Alan Watts, as well as Gary Zukav, the author of The Dancing Wu Li Masters and later The Seat of the Soul. Both of them were totally different in their personal lives from what one would expect based on reading their books.

    I almost worshipped Watts in the mid-1960’s, but when I met him socially while dating his best friend’s daughter, he turned out to be a pretty unenlightened asshole. It was quite shocking. Many others who knew him said the same thing about him. But he did an enormous amount of good for the world through his books and lectures on Taoism and Zen, and I still regard him as a great man because of that.

    I knew Gary Zukav just prior to his writing The Dancing Wu Li Masters. At that time he was a very unaware, unspiritual anger case, as he himself said publicly years later. To his credit he did become more aware and mellowed oiut as he learned and applied more and more of Eastern religious philosophy.

    I don’t offer these observations as natter about Watts and Zukav, because they’ve both done a lot of good for the world. I’m just pointing out that none of us are perfect, and walking one’s talk is often hard to do. But that doesn’t mean that the talk is invalid.

  175. OK, I’ll check it out.

  176. Quite right Michael. Whether Hubbard contradicted himself or not.

  177. Marty, thank you for this video. Thank you for being willing to explore, to share your truths, to share yourself, to evaluate and be yourself evaluated, and for your uncompromising and unapologetic curiosity. I love it..

  178. Yep. I think he and Marty would hit it off.

  179. One of those who see


  180. Brian, I’m not ignorant or in a closed thought club at all. In this lifetime prior to encountering Scientology, I became very knowledgeable about Eastern paths, both by personal study (not comparative religion courses in college), intensive practice, and my own resulting enlightenment experiences. After getting into Scientology I did NOT drop any knowingness I achieved through those earlier experiences in favor of Scientology “party line” thought, and I continued to study both Eastern and Western esoteric philosophy and methods through all of my 44 years in Scientology. I refrained only from mixing practices.

    Naturally, I don’t know about every single non-Scientology practice out there, even though I’m familiar with a pretty good representative cross section. So I cannot say with total certainty that no one ever developed something that worked to produce permanent liberation. And, I think it’s likely that every once in a blue moon someone did succeed in getting out of the trap altogether. But if anyone did, and then came back as a Bodhisattva to help free all sentient beings before going to his own paranirvana, it’s quite obvious that he didn’t develop a technology that would work on more than a ridiculously few beings already of very high awareness, because if he had done that, we wouldn’t still be here in the trap ourselves.

    As for my whole track memory, and that of thousands of other Scientologists, all I can say is please don’t invalidate our case and gains by calling our memory, and thereby the whole subject of Scientology, “subjective and difficult to prove.”

    You know, your description of people in a “closed thought system” may apply to you, too. I’m sure your study of Yoga and Vedic philosophy did you a lot of good, and validly so. But it also provided you with the idea that the masters in that field do achieve permanent liberation. But where’s the proof? Isn’t their permanent liberation “subjective and difficult to prove,” too? Don’t you believe in it because they are the ones claiming it? And don’t you see the gains people achieve in Scientology as being “inferior”?

    And, to get right to the point, don’t all the advanced practitioners of your path, including the “permanently liberated” masters, CONTINUE to meditate and do asanas every day in order to maintain their states? All the ones I knew in the 60’s did.

    I actually think that there are higher spiritual awareness states available in Eastern religion than in Scientology, so I’m not against anyone doing both. But you seem to be motivated to denigrate Scientology. That doesn’t seem very “ecumenical.” Would you recommend other Yogi’s to partake of Independent Scientology? If so, to what degree?

  181. ..while on.. seems to be key.

  182. I have that same problem. The WordPress app seemed a little better and then I started having problems with that too.

  183. Crap, now I have to guess who it was. Does his first name end with an E?

  184. What else applies to knowing with the Scientology is the economics of it, in every way.

    It is as valuable as it is in demand.

    Inelastic demand:

    “A situation in which the demand for a product does not increase or decrease correspondingly with a fall or rise in its price. From the supplier’s viewpoint, this is a highly desirable situation because price and total revenue are directly related; an increase in price increases total revenue despite a fall in the quantity demanded. An example of a product with inelastic demand is gasoline.”

    Through out it’s history since it has been offered in the market places of the world, there has been a presumption at Int Management levels all the way down to the streets, that the information being sold at the Scientology outlets will remain in demand against the backdrop of any and all social conditions.

    There may have been a lot of truth in that when Scientology was kept up to some standards , and exchanges were kept in and injustices were not too great.

    It is no longer a friendly or welcoming group, and “Golden Age” of Scientology, announced by David Miscavige , a non practiced or trained auditor, to be HIS arrangement of Scientology, has no intrinsic value in the marketplace, and the knowledge is as free as an Internet connection now.

    The group is floating around, and profiting, on nothing but BELIEF!

    The entire millions raised for the Super Power Building, those millions did not come in from any exchange with the community, or the delivery of Scientology to anybody. Those millions did not come in because of new members, happy P.C.’s, or well trained auditors. Those millions came in from businessmen out laboring in the marketplace, selling hair growth products, computer software or whatever. NOT because of Scientology.

    Those millions came in because of “belief”. The Freewinds was created on Belief.

  185. Not any more. They reshot the film using pro actors, not auditors. Man, I would love for some disaffected DTS to post a copy of that “new” film and the LRH original for all the world to see. Happy drumming, bro.

  186. Larry, I can only answer from my viewpoint. Everyone on this planet is an OT! And a genius! Do you have any idea how much talent at multi tasking takes to,

    Mock up and drag around a reactive mind.
    Mock up and drag around an analytical mind.
    Mock up, remember and keep alive every purpose and keep them active even when they bump into one another and send one splewy.
    Mock up and maintain a wardrobe of identities.
    With hold all of that communication. And then spill it out in little splurts at the appropriate time and place so it falls in some kind of harmony.
    Keep all that time and records.
    Keep all the math on the Karma.
    Remember every time place form and event.
    Remember every location.
    Remember to forget.
    Forget to remember.
    Maintain every connection and their current location.
    Maintain a thetan sextant of every star, planet, and galaxy and bar one has traveled through.
    Maintain a complete guest book of everyone that has traveled through ones universe and rearranged it.
    Hold onto every grudge ever, or every debt.
    Travel with a complete bag of ser facs to use a little bullets.
    etc etc etc.

  187. I think not mixing practices is a reasonable request when one is engaged in a system of practice. Otherwise it’s hard to know which results are from what practice. The problem comes from condescension and elitist condemnation of other practices.

  188. And big kudos to Tatiana who selflessly does so much for so many.

  189. He tried to sell it off onto Dylan fans. Who had already heard “Positively Fourth Street”. Cohen fans, who had already heard “Famous Blue raincoat”.

    His offering of , “You don’t know how to know” and, “She don’t know how to know” just didn’t make it to the charts along with the video.

  190. She is a real gem. A very sincere person. Very curious.

  191. Damn that was funny. Hilarious actually. Nicely penned. Thanks Oraclemysticism.

    On a more serious note (for lack of better words) I find the chief problem with scientology (in general terms) is in it’s insistence on ‘engaging’ the hyper-active mind at the expense of the ever-still spirit. So to speak.

    Which your post captures quite fittingly.


    ps: setting aside all jest, I actually do imagine that ever human being I have ever laid my eyes upon is a spiritual being of near inconceivable beauty and goodness, being worthy of my wonder and awe. An eternal Dreamer of a temporal dream that they themselves both created, and entered into, for the purposes of entertainment & education.

    Paint me deluded. I don’t mind.

  192. Hey Diogenes, thank you for the dialog.

    Diogenes, your words are in quotes

    “But if anyone did, and then came back as a Bodhisattva to help free all sentient beings before going to his own paranirvana, it’s quite obvious that he didn’t develop a technology that would work on more than a ridiculously few beings already of very high awareness, because if he had done that, we wouldn’t still be here in the trap ourselves.”

    My perspective is that the evolution of consciousness on earth is in very slow increments. 1000s of year cycles or larger is nothing to forever. To me it would seem a fantasy to suppose that any one liberated teacher can corral the entire planet on his particular giddy up. Just because we are not all flying around eating thought food and vacationing on the Orion belt is not indicative of no forward evolution ocurring.

    “As for my whole track memory, and that of thousands of other Scientologists, all I can say is please don’t invalidate our case and gains by calling our memory, and thereby the whole subject of Scientology, “subjective and difficult to prove”

    No inval intended. I have past live things pop up from time to time that need deconstructing as well. My only point is it is difficult to have a reasonable conversation with “I know this because of past lives.” I came across too many Mozarts, Jesus’s while a Scientologist to rely on recall being objective.

    “You know, your description of people in a “closed thought system” may apply to you, too.”

    Definitley, I have been in this catagory and many on any path have. I think it is a human trait to “be better than”. But I have worked to neutalize that bad habit.

    Within the Yogic traditions there is a repect for other teachers and approaches. It is a well repeated truth within these traditions that, “the goal is one but the paths are many.” To have an only way ideology as part of church doctrine just caters to this stinky human ego tendency.

    So for instance, I have been invited to be part of movement that helps get meditation into schools. The path is not mine, the teacher is not mine yet I am there to support. Why? Because truth is truth and my way is not the only one true way. And I support those pursuing the truth. That is why I post on this blog. I support seekers of truth and Scientologists used to be my family and I want to share anything that has helped me with anybody willing to listen.
    And the stability of my wins/cogs on any path are not dependent on being validated or invalidated by anybody. If someone thinks my ideas are crap, fine, I really don’t mind. Hey, let’s have a beer and have fun talking to each other. Maybe two beers for more fun:-) True realizations don’t up and disappear because someone thinks your realizations are wrong.
    If I have on brown shoes and you tell me they are black, my confidence in my directly perceived brown shoes does not diminish. Only faith can be shattered by doubt, not knowledge.

    ” But you seem to be motivated to denigrate Scientology.”

    Diogenes, I really don’t have to try to do that, even though I’m not. I support Marty and the Independents.

    Regarding the denigration of Scientology: Scientology doesn’t need my help, it seems to be doing a fine enough job of doing it to itself.

  193. Addendum for Diogenes:

    “Would you recommend other Yogi’s to partake of Independent Scientology? If so, to what degree?”

    I hope one day I can. In whatever process will serve to help others free themselves to find happiness.

  194. Tom Gallagher

    On the light side, here’s some yin and yang in balance.

    I’ve played this video whenever things feel too solid. Enjoy! (turn up the sound and go full screen on you tube)

  195. Tom Gallagher

    Makes ‘moon walking’ akin to amateur hour.

  196. theosismanides

    Marty, I like that viewpoint. This is key here then: “contribute to education”. I respect that. Now, it’s clearer to me what you wanna do here. Thanks.

  197. martyrathbun09

    After four years? What did you think I wanted to do here?

  198. Yea… Life is a hell of a lot easier now let me tell you.

    To my mind the only real gift we have is time. Everything else was and is already ours to make as complex or simple as we wish.

    But yes… We are already all that many profess to have the “only real route to”… Help to get there…? Yes… Only route… BIG PHAT NO!


  199. Really?

    Sorry… It’s been awhile since I’ve heard the “DM is the problem” mantra.

    Not wishing to be contrary but do you seriously think that the 70’s were all good?

    And that if the “Old man” was (somehow) still running things we wouldn’t be here on this blog?

    Genuine question. No nefarious intent here I promise.

  200. Brilliant.

    Thank you for sharing.


  201. We’ll see.

    Another famous quote…😉

  202. I agree with the “Yang on steroids” idea. Perfect example: having to call female seniors/officers in the Sea Org “Mister” so-and-so.

  203. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Budha meant this would be the middle way !

  204. “Yes, but most non-Scientology techniques still the vibrations of the mind only by key-out rather than erasure. The inconvenient truth about the enlightened sages of the past is that while the awareness many of them achieved was real, they couldn’t keep it permanently, because eventually something not erased would key in again.”

    Got to tell you brother… that is some of the biggest load of arrogant ignorance I have read in a long time.


    Please keep going on your journey.

    The mere fact that you are stating something you cannot possible know for certain as fact should be enough for you to re-think this line of thought.

    But i can assure you i have personally experienced the exact things you claim to be impossible within this life time, on this earth and I have many a witness who can attest to it.

    Again. Please continue your journey. And perhaps “offer” your findings in the future rather than state them as facts. You never know. You could be wrong and not realise it until later.

  205. Mmmm… You did say “most”… I’ll wind it back in… But tread carefully with statements like that. Very brave of you if nothing else.

  206. Cool. I cleared Tao
    Very good Marty

  207. Nail… meet hammer.

  208. I’m confused… You’ve quoted someone but it’s under a comment that does not say what your quoting…?

  209. I was the one who recommended “The Tao of Physics” to you, Marty.

  210. 😊

    Reminds of Noel Harrison’s “Windmills of your mind”

    But better…😊

  211. Dunno but I like it…😊

  212. I take Alex’s comment to reflect the common belief that “the Church is dead”. Miscavige stepping down won’t bring it back to life. And having been around in the 1960s and 1970s, I can tell you it was different. There was a big release of theta that happened back then, which has not been happening more recently.

  213. And I do not see where Alex said he thought “the 1970s were ALL GOOD.”

  214. Thanks Diogenes. When it was first published, I got the “Wu LI Masters” book and found it unreadable. And I actually made it through “Beelzebub’s Tales”. That took a lot of stick-to-it-iveness. But I must admit there was a lot of it I failed to duplicate.

  215. “Paint me deluded.” Normally one would paint you denuded.
    Sorry, couldn’t help myself…

  216. Dear Paul.
    Many thanks!

  217. martyrathbun09

    Brilliant Scott. Thanks. It is right on the money with my line of study at the moment. The clearest step by step guide to the parallels between quantum theory and Eastern thought I have read – and I have read a number. Amazingly, he wrote this back in the mid seventies. He was nearly forty years ahead of his time.

  218. And for those contemplating the idea of karmic reincarnation, “It’s like deja vu all over again.”

  219. AnonOT, all I can do is smile at your post. Thank you

  220. I think it’s remarkable that his first name was actually Yogi.

    Here’s a full page of his nuggets of Tao –

  221. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, but if you are looking ahead, just remember not to forget this one, ‘The future ain’t what it used to be.’

  222. Dear noteacherleftstanding,I went to the dictionary to understand the word, denuded. Never heard of it before. If it means what I think it means, that was nice. Thank you. If it means what I don’t think it means (but it might mean), well, I am at loss for words. Lol. (which would put me right back into my normal condition).

    Damn dictionaries. They act as if everyone that comes to view them are equal in their capacity to understand. Like a flaming hot model that thinks everyone has eyes to see. Everyone doesn’t. I know. I am blind.


  223. That was nice Chris. Very nice. My favorite saying of late is this one: My time on earth is limited, and my job is to freely give it away to as many people as possible.


  224. Addenduming the addendum for Diogenes. Sorry, for multiposts, I believe this point is important to be made.

    “And, to get right to the point, don’t all the advanced practitioners of your path, including the “permanently liberated” masters, CONTINUE to meditate and do asanas every day in order to maintain their states? All the ones I knew in the 60′s did.”

    The truly liberated Masters, yes there are not that many running around society, do not need to meditate. There attainment is unconditional: Total Freedom. If they had to do something to remain free that would not be total freedom, conditional. They choose to continue to meditate to set an example for students. There lives are a total mentorship for students.

    Now you may say,”how do I know they are free?” That is a good question and I can only answer by saying I have only met 3 or 4 in my whole life. And the experience I had with these people far surpass anything I have ever experienced with anybody……… ever!

    In way of demonstrating at least circumstantial evidence of this state, I would humbly suggest you to read Autobiography of a Yogi. It may fly in the face of all you know to be true, or it may take you to the threshold of a new world. It is why it was the only book on Steve Job’s iPad and he read it once a year since he was 18. George Harrison kept stacks of them at home to give out to people needing a spiritual boost. Tales of a Topographical Ocean, the album by Yes was about this book. It has been on the NY Times best seller list for decades and was voted by a publishers company to be in the top 100 most influential spiritual books of the 20 century. It is required reading in some college courses on religion. All of the teachers in Yoganada’s lineage are on Sargeant Peppers cover.

    The book has changed the lives of millions. It is a good place to start in understanding the total liberated state. Many have thought the same, you may as well. Or you may not and that is totally ok. I am not selling anything nor need anyones agreement. I am only sharing something of value to me. In hopes that it helps.

  225. Hey Larry,
    Thanks for the great laffs, before and after my post.
    From one blind man to another…

  226. Dan – I still say you are the master of TR films. LRH gave a pass on you! He personally gave a pass on your demonstration of what he expected and needed and wanted.

    On the subject – how obvious is the current tech squirrel scene when you see professional actors demonstrating TR’s. TR’s were supposed to demonstrate natural LIVE communication to assist with the use of auditing, assists, etc to better another fellow human. God, how disgusting. It is now considered just acting a part. I am constantly reminded of the actual loss that has occurred with the alteration of the tech, destruction of the original intent and the transformation of something for betterment into something just for money and power.

    The day any DTS does who you say is the day that person will have earned the respect of a very large ethical group of beings.

  227. Brian, you mentioned how the evolution of consciousness occurs very slowly on this planet. That idea is a standard component of many Vedic and New Age schools of thought. But LRH never gave it any support. Meanwhile he often used the term, “downward spiral,” not only in reference to individuals in this lifetime, but thetans generally in this universe. He said that thetans were far more powerful early on the whole track than they were later. My own whole track memory aligns with that. While we’ve always learned from our mistakes to a certain degree, on a long-term trend basis charge has accumulated more and more over time, inexorably converting theta to mest in a universal downward spiral that LRH undertook to turn around.

    Within this “devolution,” many traps were set to capture thetans in high-wavelength “stuff” that feels good, in order to convince them that they’d actually reached a higher state. I personally experienced this in the 60’s, first with Transcendental Meditation, and then with Hare Krishna.

    I got a lot out of TM at first, but after a few months of starting to practice it I found that whenever I wasn’t thinking of something else, my mantra was running by itself, withdrawing my attention from the physical level. Also, the TM Center was full of a high-wavelength, subtle energy substance that felt very pleasant but smothering. On a residence course in the mountains with 700 TMers the entire valley we were in became full of this substance. When I left the valley, or climbed to the top of the mountains surrounding it, I could feel the absence of this substance, and when I re-entered the valley, or climbed back down the mountain, I could feel the “stuff” again. It felt good, but it didn’t feel like freedom. By contrast, at a big Scientology event I went to, the space was just empty, clean, and free. I preferred that feeling. It was better than both the “everyday world” and the “TM world,” and was one of the major reasons I quit TM and took up Scientology.

    I never joined or practiced Hare Krishna, but one day after I’d had my lower grades Scientology auditing I was walking across campus at the local college, and passed very close by a small group of Hare Krishna chanters. As I approached, when I got about ten feet from them, I suddenly felt awful for about two feet. Then I felt wonderful as I got nearer and walked past them. About eight feet on the other side of them I suddenly felt awful again for about two feet, and then “normal” again as I had originally. Obviously their chanting had created some kind of pleasant energy that had pushed the mass of their cases away from them, backing it up inthe form of a ridge that I’d walked through. But to keep that mass away they had to keep chanting. I spotted that as a spiritual addiction and wanted none of it.

    Just for the record, most of what I did before Scientology was Zen. I had a satori experience, but it involved no “subtle stuff” at all. Quite the contrary in fact.

    Re past lives, like you I’ve run across too many “great personages of the past” who didn’t seem so great in present time. LRH comments on this in one of his lectures, saying that most such people are just out of valence. But he also said “famous pepole ARE somewhere today.” I agree that it’s very difficult to talk to someone who believes he was Napoleon or Moses or Madam Curie, because they MIGHT actually have been that great person, and even if they weren’t, which is more likely, you don’t want to invalidate them. But some people do remember past lives accurately, especially after having had a lot of auditing. All I can say about my own whole track memory is that it exists, it’s quite real to me, it’s consistent within itself, it contains what I said it does in a previous post, and I don’t claim to be any particular great person with a recognizable name.

    Your final comment, that Scientology seems to be doing a fine job of denigrating itself, seems to me to contain the same collapse of Scientology’s component parts that we see in most critics. Scientology is not a monolithic whole. It’s parts include the philosophy LRH developed, the technology as actually stated by him, the technology as actually practiced, LRH as a person, the corporate entity of the Church, and Church management. These 6 separate elements are not the same, and actually form a sort of scale, with truth being on the philosophy end and untrue alteration on the management end.

    Your involvement with Scientology was relatively late in time, after it had slid most of the way down this scale. You may have never received the core philosophy or actual, complete Standard Tech even if you did advanced levels as they were offered at the time. That’s not your fault, of course. But you may be judging Scientology with missing and incorrect data based on your experience with the Church, as many, many others have. I could be wrong, but that seems to me to be what’s going on here.

    In any event, you certainly have my best wishes for success in your quest, wherever it takes you, and I respect your right to make your own observations and judgments.

  228. Thanx oraclemysticism, This video with Ken is important!

  229. Once, Yogi’s wife Carmen asked, “Yogi, you are from St. Louis, we live in New Jersey, and you played ball in New York. If you go before I do, where would you like me to have you buried?” Yogi replied, “Surprise me.”

  230. Well, I admit that my writing style is a bit arrogant, but please don’t assume that I am ignorant of the subject we are discussing. Please read my last two long comments to Brian, and then tell me about your experiences of things you think I said are impossible, and your witnesses to those experiences.

    Also, as I said to Brian, how do you know that someone who seems liberated in present time WON’T key in later, in a future life if not this one? Of course, I don’t know that anyone you have in mind WILL collapse in the future. I just know that many beings reaching enlightenment have later lost it, and that the nature of the universe is not as benign as most seekers believe.

  231. 🙂 one of my favorites that I read early on.

  232. That’s a Scientologist for ya. Daring to go where every man has gone before. Damn the sec checks, full Yang ahead! While the namby-pamby Yinny Easterners hang back…..

  233. Beezlebub’s Tales! That really takes me back! A very tough read. I didn’t finish it. Impossible not to get MU’s piled up trying.

  234. I agree. It appeals to my nature as well. Anyone of like mind would be well served to study and understand the metaphysics to physics corollaries contained in this work.

  235. What became of the men and women that built the Pyramids after they were built? Didn’t the Pharoah have them killed as was the “tradition” to do at the time? What truth could they have revealed to anyone that resulted in their deaths being the answer? Even the Pharoah’s had case. Even the Pharoah’s had case. 🙂 But of course not DM. When he pushes someone through a plate glass window it is for the good of all concerned just as long as the glass was cleaned spotless with Windex® beforehand. 🙂

  236. Thanks marildi. I keep plugging away, often little by little indeed.

    After all the brouhaha with The Moron on Geir’s blog, I realize how much material there is, and how relatively few people have glimpsed the entire elephant, or even that it is an elephant. And even his posts make sense to some people there, and are a positive contribution to their understanding. Amazing.

  237. Very well put, Marty!
    Let have Scientology its well deserved place in the field of humanities. Among the many philosophies evolved, Scientology distinctively differs by its developments from hypotheses and theories into technologies likely to be better suited than others to not only help reach states of inner peace, but, more importantly, to achieve more truthful insights into life and consequently improved abilities to deal with it.
    Nevertheless, Scientology deals with the great cognitive puzzle that we are confronted with. As searchers we should keep our sphere of vision broad enough to also draw from the many sources offered by the great thinkers and traditions also L. Ron Hubbard gave credit to.
    Let Scientology be an integral part of our own quest for wisdom!

  238. It’s so bad now in the Church the auditing sessions have become pissing contests between the P.C. and the auditor! That’s very Yangy! In the Greg Barnes video he describes a class lX begging him to hit her! Yang on steroids is an under statement!

    0:14:00 – 0:16:20

  239. Excellent clarifications Marty. I think the word integration may have a certain context of blending something with something, ie., blending other practices with Standard Tech was perhaps some of the confusion.

    I have no problem adding some Yin to the Yang, a bottle of good Port will do that everytime! I was interested in Taoism years before Scientology, now you have me interested in rereading some again. I’ll start with your recommendation by Mitchell.

  240. Just lovely! Thanks Tom.

  241. Marty,
    Thank you! 100% agree with you.

  242. Well then Larry, I would not be an enlightened being by your definition for I do not have a calm and quiet demeanor as a standard of expression. I’m quite chatty. I’m goofy and funny. I tell jokes. I can listen and I can talk. I move up and down the tone scale, mostly live in the aesthetics band because I like beauty. I do engage in heated discussion with others, but I don’t get stuck in them. I see no reason why I should be silent most of the time to be enlightened. Oh, and god forbid, I am packing a few extra pounds and I eat donuts.

    Half of your list is going to be from your own subjective view of someone else and may or may not be an accurate gage of the actual state of that other person you are evaluating.

    While you say in a later comment that you see each being as magnificent and wonderful, obviously you do not see someone who has done the OT sections that way or you would not have posed the question you did to Marty. The way you have worded your question, my guess is that you see them as rather poor examples of enlightenment and therefore wonder about the value of doing the OT sections even outside of the Church. Yet I guarantee you that those people you see as so wonderful (who have never done the OT sections,) have all kinds of behaviors that you would conclude were unacceptable even while seeing them beautiful. What’s with that?

    LRH and the Church set up a miserable situation for OTs with all this status nonsense and all these claims of awesome. Well, I am here to tell you IT IS AWESOME. But perhaps not in any way you would recognize or even be able to perceive.

    And it is definitely difficult for an OT when one is living in the shadow of the Church, its excessive demands and carefully hidden false data designed to make soldiers out of beings who wanted to go free. And within the Scn community, you have all these people telling you all kinds of awful things, running their case around you in the hopes that you will audit it out magically for them in your next NOTs session, or continually running their hidden standard on you, or worrying that you know their withholds. Or hitting you up for thousands of dollars because you are OT 5 or 7 or whatever. It goes on into a total overrun and it is a constant wrong indication and evaluation.

    I am so done with all that. If I told you about my world and what I got out of the OT sections, I’m betting you would dismiss it and tell me that you have that without the OT sections. I could be wrong but I think that’s pretty much what you’re saying in your later comment. I really doubt you would find anything I said was of gain to me to be of any value or importance. If you are like so many I have encountered along the way, I am guessing that you would focus on my small apartment and my simple lifestyle and my used car. Or perhaps consider me irresponsible because I am not fixing the Church or auditing someone or saving starving babies in Biafra. One thing is sure though — you would do that only if I told you I was OT7, and right up until that point you would probably see me as a wonderful and fine being.

  243. The Flag Land base has become a slum. Nobody owns anything , people live in constant fear, subsidized by donations and taxes of working Scientologists putting in valuable exchange. If you actually want something in exchange for your time and money you are branded as a “consumer Scientologist” and shunned. You are expected to walk through and feed the beggars only.

    The staff are pimped to death. They are hustling 16 to 20 hours a day so they have another night in a bed with a roof over their head.

    Slap Choppers kept the electricity on at the Church for a while, and then they fair gamed the inventor when he complained his partners chopped through his income to feed the bottomless needs and demands of the Corporation.

    Lighting fixtures bought in 2.5 million in the last few years, (as the donor was selling lighting fixtures). Computer Software sales has bought in millions. Betting people will lose on Wall Street has bought in millions via the Feshbacks. Chiropractic services bought in millions. Theater tickets and television series has bought in millions.

    This is the real exchange going on that keeps the doors of the Church open and the staff fed and clothed.

    These Scientologists that are going out and busting their ass to make money in the market place selling goods and services and bringing their cash to the beggars.

    This has NOTHING to do with Scientology, making clears releases or auditors. This is all beggar income.


    That is the actual truth! David calls that “expansion”!

    PUBIC ASSISTANCE = EXPANSION in David’s P.R. world!

    The Church is a welfare state!

    public assistance
    Aid, such as money or food, given to homeless and other financially needy people, the aged, or the inhabitants of a disaster-stricken area; relief.

    Let’s get real!

    Public aid and welfare is the condition David Miscavige has led the Church of Scientology in to!

    And he has demanded the staff sign vows of poverty!

    Welfare can take a variety of forms, such as monetary payments, subsidies and vouchers, or housing assistance. Welfare systems differ from culture to culture. Welfare is commonly provided to individuals who are unemployed, those with illness or disability, the elderly, those with dependent children, orphans widows and veterans. A person’s eligibility for Welfare may also be constrained by means testing or other conditions.

    NONE of those staff are unemployed, handicapped or disabled, elderly, with dependent children or veterans. Those people are offloaded at bus stops and given 500.00.

    They are being kept on Welfare because of their belief system.

    What the hell does that tell you, about what they REALLY think of Scientology?

    The most devoted are “handicapped because of their belief in Scientology”.

    The uniforms signifying authority are a get up. They are total effect of public assistance. Exchange should not even be expected, one should only donate otherwise branded a consumer!

    Who the fuck is the “consumer only” if not a welfare state living on donations? Begging for a living!

    David Miscavige is a product of public assistance! There are people leaving the Church still asking for donations as a way of life. Why do you think the Int Base Staff will not stand up and leave that hole unless lead off the grounds by armed guards? They are accustomed to living on public assistance!

    Why do you see some staff leave and only manage to live off the mercy, (or stupidity) of others with out offering any real exchange?

    They still feel they “must be contributed to” !

    Who the hell would write to Marty and fair game HIM for “not doing enough”?

    Someone accustomed to the public assistance program!

    “We must have public assistance” to release OT8.

    “We must have public assistance” to sell and deliver Scientology so buy us a new building.

    “We must have public assistance before we can deliver Super Power” so buy us a building.

    There is nothing wrong with public assistance for those truly in need.

    Begging is legal and I have begged plenty. I know what begging is.
    Begging is even honorable. A humility everyone should experience at least once in their life. So you get an idea of how kind strangers walking down the street really are.

    But don’t beg and call yourself a registrar registering someone for something.

    And don’t turn your Church into a welfare state while issuing P.R. statements of grand expansion and illusions of wealth and affluence.

    And don’t live off begging and public assistance while dominating your patrons by their confessions and short comings and frailties and doubts as if you are someplace above them.

    What you depend on you become the effect of and Int Management and the entire Sea Org is TOTAL EFFECT of the PUBLIC! It is NOT the other way around!

    This is the condition the leader of the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige, has lead the Scientology movement to. A public assistance dependent.

    I summon the Gods and all that is supernatural and holy to intervene upon this madness and anti magic he has mocked up in his purposes to harm attack and suppress others!

  244. Excellent Marty, excellent. Can’t add much to some of the sage words of others above – seems to me you’ve pretty much achieved in under 4 years what Corp Scn has PROMISED would happen after Superpower is released – or no, after OT IX are released – or after 10 more MEST buildings are open – or maybe after another X squillion is raised for the IAS, or after………(add arbitrary target ad infinitum).

  245. Wonderful Marty, thanks!

  246. The fact that he is using public assistance funds to pay for spy houses, fund domestic terrorism, renting mailboxes to hide cameras, paying garbage men to buy bags full of dog shit and baby diapers, shop for dildos, paying for P.I.’s , and to pay off his legal fees for domestic abuses is downright flagrant spillage of charity into conflict chaos and ill will. That is what he is investing his public assistance funds into! His audition in this Scientology arena needs to come to an end!

    H.C.O. bring order! I insist! I compel you!

    Your integrity is more important than your public assistance!

  247. You got my interest up Marty. Can’t wait until I have some time to check out the Tao. Thx. Would I be too far off if I assumed that the Tao would strengthen the ‘A’ in SC’s ARC?

  248. Diogenes, very nice viewpoint.
    I liked it.

  249. martyrathbun09

    Not at all; I think it is a good assumption.

  250. What a joy.

    Can we always be friends, is my motto.

    Some scientologists “drinking kool-aid” are still going strong and getting people up the tonescale. Watch the Jive Aces from London. Make sure to let the video rolling, at one and a half minute the fun begins, and at two and a half the universe is rocking.

    Greetings from Denmark. May you all have a pleasant day.

  251. I forgot the videolink, sorry.

  252. Thank you for this, Christine.

    I have a cautiously optimistic sense that this Pope will help bring new opportunity to the bottom billion on this planet.

    BTW, for more on the concept of how we can do this, the book “Abundance” by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler certainly outlines important potentials.

    Love to all,

  253. Marty,

    Around 5am this morning, I awoke from one of those bizarre dreams (that are hard to shake) about being kidnapped by the Church and given some type of PDH to make me more tractable. In the dream, I rebelliously fought back, but, the more I fought back the more the characters in my dream tortured me. Finally, (in the dream) I decided to just take whatever my captors did to me – just so they would let me go.

    However when I was finally released, I found that all that I loved in my life, friends, family and the such had vanished or had long forgotten about me. Felt like a weird struggle of “to fight or not to fight back”.

    Now, I don’t typically put much significance on dreams, except for perhaps a lack of B1, but, this one shook me up pretty good. So, instead of just rolling over and going back to sleep as usual, I decided to get onto the computer and find something more pleasant to put my attention on. I thought perhaps, some java and pretty Facebook pictures would do the trick…lol. Yet, the dreadful feeling of hopelessness hung on.

    So, as the coffee was brewing I went to your blog and hesitantly clicked on your video post (thinking…oh boy, what is Marty up to now).

    I must say, after listening to what you said, it surprisingly made sense to me on so many levels. Particularly real to me, is the nightmare of intensity that I personally got trapped into within the Church for the last 20 years and my more recent mental obsession with needing to fix or fight back against the scene in the Church.

    At the end of your video I recognized that since getting into Scientology, I had took such pride in my intense nature which I thought served me so well — when in fact, I was serving it. Interestingly, I now realize that my Yang intensity is only a part of my nature and without adequately being balanced with YIN it’s quite useless.

    So, Thank You! I will take your recommendation and read the Tao Te Ching translation by Stephen Mitchell. And, THANK YOU for sharing your journey of Moving On Up a Little Higher.

    ~ Angela

    P.S. I read The Sociopath next door by Martha Stout as you recommended and found it extremely valuable in expanding my understanding of Suppression and it only enhanced my Scientology studies.

  254. Weeell lucky for me I was diagnosed as “hyper active” at three when it was considered a good thing. So I was put into first grade at four and graduated high school at 14 by being skipped two grades. Because back then, “hyperactive” meant something altogether different and people did not have the urge to suppress it.

    Timing is everything. I never had the purpose of “ever stillness” . That is a tree like purpose growing in West Virginia.

    I love the forces and intelligence’s.

    I have noticed Hubbard offered people a way to depersonalize things. “It’s third dynamic” makes distance. As if that fact matters less. That never mattered less to me or lessened someone’s value because it was spread out. On a “bigger” dynamic. It has all been personal. On every dynamic.

    I’ve met some ugly evil people.

    I’ve met some beautiful promising people.

    Oddly, The ugly evil people turned out to be quite positive, and the beautiful and promising actually quite evil. It’s all backwards in this universe. To get anywhere at all I have to turn it around to an opposite. I may be a dyslexic thetan.

    Or, I understand some conditions about how magic works.

  255. When I was 28 I went to a party in Manhattan as a Clear. I carried a rottweiler on a leash. I sat at a table and talked. Across from me sat the most dysfunctional drug addict, self important, narcissistic, rock superstar of all time, that I looked down upon because of his handicaps.

    My rottweiler broke leash and charged at someone at the party and this wholly dysfunctional man stood up and grabbed the dog and saved somebodies life.

    Then he turned on me and reprimanded ME for bringing such an animal into this kind if setting and handled out MY ethics .

    He was right. I was wrong. And clear had nothing to do with it. I had to admit that even in his condition, he was in better shape than me.

    That’s Scientology working.

    But who in Scientology could understand such a thing?

  256. martyrathbun09

    Or you could be having glimpses of the fourth dimension as outlined in the Tao, maybe?

  257. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. I wouldn’t resist the dreams either. Scientology is the most powerful technology – in my opinion – in raising cognitive consciousness (or what some traditions call ‘gross consciousness’, in-present-timeness with ultra-alert attention). But, a number of Eastern traditions also recognize value in two other states of consciousness that are always available to anyone – dream or ‘subtle’ (which includes your reveries, daydreaming, vital creative consciousness states) and, causal (or achievement of awarness of interconnectivity, or oneness, or the Tao, or maybe even the theta universe – or what I just started referring to as the 4th dimension). The latter two are frowned upon in Scientology (dream/subtle and causal)- even with warnings to take the B1 to suppress them. But, try not resisting them and see what happens. A whole new universe may open up to you.

  258. martyrathbun09

    I get it. Sorta like, ‘don’t worry, be happy.’

  259. martyrathbun09

    What an interesting voice. Thanks for sharing it.

  260. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that Valkov.

  261. Marty, Thanks again 🙂

  262. martyrathbun09

    This statement of yours is important, the nature of the universe is not as benign as most seekers believe. This idea of course is very emphatically eschewed in the introductory levels of Scientology. The discrediting of this idea has even been labelled Scientology Zero. Did you ever consider it incongruous that after all you put into pursuing that path, introduced rather authoratively with the idea that the nature of the universe is not as benign as most seekers believe is false, you wound up firmly convinced that the nature of the universe is not as benign as most seekers believe?

  263. martyrathbun09

    You know, we joke about it – and it is entertaining, but I think this cat was emanating the Tao or Zen in a way. He perhaps looked at the universe the way Lao Tzu did or Quantum theorists (contemplating the observer in their equations) do. Paradoxes.

  264. martyrathbun09

    I highly recommend Ken Wilber’s A Brief History of Everything to you. It re-introduced me to the idea of evolution, not in the Darwinian sense, an idea that Scientology (taken too literally) can put one in denial about. It is happening my friend, whether good or bad, irrespective of what ‘creationist’ dogmas might implant. We either do something to help push it toward the positive, or we do things to push it toward the negative. Pretending it doesn’t exist and critizing from a high horse tends toward the latter in my opinion.

  265. Very funny Chris, You had a little `intention is senior to MEST` moment. Gotta love those reminders 🙂

  266. Marty,
    Did you get my reply last night?

  267. Diogenes, your questions are good I don’t believe in bad questions. And the openness of this forum will perhaps bring you your own answers. Because this is freedom. Your question basically is “are there totally freed beings?” That is a friggn great question!

  268. martyrathbun09


  269. Awesome rant Oracle. You have a deep well of caring.

  270. That was good too Otto. Thanks.

  271. i sent you an email in reply to yours.

  272. Aquamarine, there is really no need to be sad for me, for I have not lost anything except perhaps a craving for agreement and approval or recognition/acclaim.

    This is really not about lacking a safe space for me to speak freely or about protecting myself from some kind of danger from others. There really isn’t anything anyone can say or even do that will be harmful to me. Sure, someone could damage my body, or destroy my possessions, or sully my reputation — but that is not something I fear. I do apologize if that was how my post came across.

    It is more to do with creating a safe space for those around me, a space in which all can feel free and comfortable. To take this out of the Scientology bubble, consider what would happen if I let it be known to people around me that I am Bodhisattva. Now I am something that they feel needs a proper response. They will seek to make a proper response. They will be uncomfortable. They will wonder — what does that mean? Do I measure up? What am I missing? They may come to me as a teacher. They may fear me as a mirror in which they see their own deficiencies. And so on.

    I really appreciate that Marty has chosen to speak on the Tao and I am not surprised that he has. What I am speaking of is indeed expressed throughout the verses of the Tao.

    There is an online version of it that you can read at this URL:

    Why I post anonymously is well-described in the Tao. Why I do not tell people I am an OT is well-described as well. I am grateful that Lao-tzu’s teachings have been preserved over centuries, for these teachings speak to me of who I really am. This is my “Bible.”

    If I were given the task of making the bridge available to others in the Independent field, the first thing I would do would be to cancel the bridge CHART and reframe every level on it to an exploration of an aspect of being rather than the completion of a named state in a hierarchy of higher/lower. Of course, each of the courses of exploration has its pre-requisite, but this is not a status or one-up condition, simply what needs to be explored to facilitate more exploration.

    No titles. No status. No demand. No acclaim. Just pure and clean discovery of the realm of the Tao. And the state of Tao, which is not the state of status or aggrandizement is its own true reward.

  273. Summerwind,
    “.they pride themselves on being separate.”
    Your observation exactly describes the scene I have experienced. It is an acute denial of anothers reality ……… except for the MAAs reality. The members of the cult are looking for answers from authority which are internalized as orders. No other reality is allowed in and thus they remain separate from others. Wogs, of course ex cult members and anything remotely critical of the activities of the cult are rejected out of hand and separated from.
    And my ex is just as you described after over two hundred hours of Flag class IX auditing and still more set up needed to get onto OT VII !

    Nail on head!!!

    “.they are still dramatizing the exact same things they did when they first got in.”

  274. Now that is humorous !!!!!!!! LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  275. Oracle, this is incisive and SO TRUE! You have this incredible talent for cutting to the core of a situation and stating your position in a way that stuns one with shock and awe.

  276. Tell me if I am wrong Diogenese. The distilled ideas in this thread as I see it:

    1) does total freedom exist?
    2) are there any totally freed beings?
    3) are there totally freed beings outside of Scientology?
    4) are there any totally freed beings in Scientology?
    5) has any of our dogma, including mine, prejudiced our pure understanding of other practices and roads to freedom?

    Thank you Marty, for this diolog on this virtual steps of Athens

  277. Marty, this is what I came to realize as well.

    Especially your comment about gross consciousness, which is often called awareness. This was brought into sharp focus for me when I examined the etymology of the word aware. It is from *ga-, intensive prefix, + wær “wary, cautious” — from PIE root *wer- “to cover.”

    In one of his lectures, Alan Watts points out that our day-to-day attention function continually focuses on changes that may affect our purposes (this is being wary) and ignores constants or what we deem to be “mere imagination.” Thus we cut ourselves off from the full truth and reality of our own existence through ignorance.

  278. This was a great post, especially as a video (very simple and concise). VWD. I really got your “non-program,” especially after reading the complete translated Tao for the first time. I loved it!

    To me, the Tao now represents one of, if not the first step, of an “educated” thetan, to now “de-educate” themselves: Back from Beingness, to Static. When one believes they are at the end, they should start over…

    Great post Marty. I un-learned a lot!

    From the Tao:
    “True words aren’t eloquent;
    eloquent words aren’t true.
    Wise men don’t need to prove their point;
    men who need to prove their point aren’t wise.”


  279. Thanks for posting this, Espiritu. You honor your “handle”.

  280. martyrathbun09

  281. Marty, I think that the first 15-20 minutes of this video really speaks to what you are saying:

  282. Listen…
    In the garden…
    Wet with rain…

    Thank you for posting this song Marty.

  283. I’ll go have a look at that.

  284. martyrathbun09

    It isn’t ‘in’ it. It is it. I entered in the term ‘4th dimension.’ When one ceases reacting to the apparent plus/minus dichotomies that seem to hold the universe together she sees all – and all of its components – as an harmonious whole. It is like seeing a dimension that otherwise is invisible to those locked into the plus/minus game. It was a compliment.

  285. Thanks for sharing! I’m off to itunes!

  286. Oh, I get it. Thank you!

  287. I should add though, the day after that party the host awoke to discover his safe had been hacked and he had been robbed. When the police finally discovered who did it, it was the person my dog had tried to attack.

  288. What if you announced yourself as a Boddhisattva, and then one day someone noticed you picking your nose? Oh the uproar! Front page of The Enquirer etc.

  289. Amen. I always notice Tatiana’s posts wherever they appear. She is real.

  290. Anon,

  291. AnonOT, in my opinion you embody all that any of us should hope for in attaining OT. Kudos to you for your simple lifestyle and your beautiful values! I would consider it a blessing to have you as a friend.

  292. 1) probably
    2) probably not
    3) probably not
    4) no
    5) yes, but I try to avoid dogma, which by definition is philosophy adopted on authority without understanding

  293. I don’t think I’m “criticizing from a high horse.” I’m just stating my reality, which is in disagreement with the post I originally replied to. Otherwise, why post at all?

    Re evolution, it’s obvious that physical evolution is true, although I think it’s probably been affected by off-planet genetic engineers. It’s naive faith in spiritual evolution that I have an issue with. See my post under Brian’s 5 questions below.

  294. See my post under your 5 questions below in this thread.

  295. Yes, I’ve watched you “plugging away” over the last couple years – and getting more and more understanding through all the discussions. (Me too!) With some people, even when they do give Scn some credit what they don’t seem to understand is that it’s much more than a collection of a few, or even many, handy “tools” – it’s a coherent, unified system, a definite ROUTE. Point being, as I mentioned, they don’t know what it IS. Not saying I’m an expert, just speaking relatively – like you, I realize how much material there is.

    And yes, what people will lap up is truly amazing – either because it seems to be so “authoritative” the way it’s spewed out, or because it aligns with their held-down sevens. I’m just so glad that you and Maria are still in there giving a sane focus to those insane comments . Myself, I’m pretty worn out by the effort at this point. 😉

  296. See my post under Brian’s 5 questions below.

  297. This long post is in answer to several comments in this thread above.

    I read parts of Autobiography of a Yogi in the late 60’s, but not the whole book. I also read other reports regarding Paramahansa Yogananda and the abilities he demonstrated. I’m sure that much of what is attributed to him is true. But it’s not proof that he reached permanent liberation.

    Around the same time, I knew Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally, and had several private discussions with him. His aura, which I could see as a result of my gains doing TM, had a radius of more than a hundred feet. Up close, looking into his eyes was like looking into the infinite depths of another universe. He was without question at a super-human level of awareness. But there was no way to know whether or not the state he had achieved was permanent for him.

    The problem I have with the idea of non-Scientology practitioners getting out of the trap permanently is that I’ve never seen in any other practice any techniques for the relief of accumulated charge from cases, on the basis of the practitioner spotting the exact time, place, form, and event of the experiences through which he accumulated the charge in the first place. Many techniques in and out of Scientology can key out charge, but without viewing its creation fully there can be no erasure. The charge still exists as “re-creatable potentials.”

    Before Scientology I gave Transcendental Meditation a serious go. Towards the end of that phase of my quest I stumbled onto Dianetics and Scientology and read most of the LRH books then available. Then I discussed Dianetics with Devendra, Maharishi’s certified enlightened designated successor. TM was supposed to “loosen stresses and strains in the subtle nervous system,” and there’s no doubt that it did just that for many people, including me. But it was a very generalized “loosening.” Meanwhile, Dianetics focused on SPECIFIC “stresses and strains,” to not just “loosen” them, but eliminate them altogether. When I described this to Devendra, he said, “This is very interesting. It could be even faster and more powerful than meditation.” He then told me why he thought I should continue with TM anyway. When I had the same discussion with Maharishi, he told me to go try Scientology and then decide what worked best for me. I did just that, and Scientology won, hands down.

    When we speak of spiritual evolution and devolution, I think we have a Yin-Yang pair. There is no doubt that as one lives through many lifetimes he gains experience. That would be a vote for evolution. But it’s also true that one gains a growing burden of negative energy, accumulated by not fully confronting bad experiences as they happen. This negative energy then not only blocks access to much of one’s experience, but also reduces one’s awareness and ability to less than it was before those experiences. Call it “charge” or “stresses and strains in the subtle nervous system” — it’s the same thing, and it pushes one down. So part of one’s spiritual evolution has to be getting rid of this charge.

    All the esoteric spiritual philosophies and practices with which I am familiar attempt to do this in some way. The question is to what degree they succeed in getting to the actual source of the charge, which is the specific postulates made by the person at specific points in time in the past. Dianetics and Scientology have always seemed to me to be much more logical and effective in accomplishing this than anything else I’ve encountered.

    Of course, even in Scientology there are non-specific techniques. The whole Lower Grades series of processes, from TRs through Objectives through Expanded Grades, is based on non-specific reach and withdraw, and discharges locks rather than secondaries and engrams. And the original OT 5 and 6 (not NOTS) drilled OT abilities directly. In between, from NED through NOTs, auditing very much targets specific incidents, or on NOTs at least specific present influences and one’s relationship to them.

    What’s very, very interesting is that when using a technique that does address specific incidents, almost everyone eventually finds that on a trend basis, the farther back in time one remembers, the higher were one’s awareness and abilities. This is very strong evidence for devolution rather than evolution.

    Also, Scientology scrupulously avoids what Maharishi used to call “mood making.” Of course, TM was mood-making, too, as I described in a previous post in this thread, but primarily it did actually get charge off. Techniques like Hare Krishna chanting, on the other hand, seem to be pure mood-making in order to avoid charge rather than confront and erase it. (Again, see my previous post in this thread.) Then there’s the Tibetan Buddhist technique of merging with a mock-up of an ascended master, to become like him. When I tried that, the results were very positive and powerful, except for one thing — I was no longer free to be myself, and freedom was the whole point of my quest!

    The Scientology spin-off of Idenics (John Galusha and Mike Goldstein) has held some interest for me, although I have no intention of trying it any time soon. As I understand it, it’s an updated and purportedly successful approach to handling one’s own actual GPMs. It claims to inspect and erase the postulates that create the identities that then form the ridges upon which engrams, implants, and OT case factors accumulate, and thereby undercut them all without having to run specific incidents or address specific present time influences. I can see potential validity to that approach, and also that it might already exist in some ancient non-Scientology esoteric practice that I haven’t yet encountered. But it’s still a specific rather than generalized technique, focused on how one creates specific charge.

    I am certain that some people could engage in a combination of non-specific “loosening of stresses and strains,” mood-making, and union with disembodied enlightened beings, and thereby achieve a state of very high awareness and ability that would seem to them and others to be complete, permanent spiritual liberation. But without the actual erasure of how a person creates his own charge, his “recreatable potentials of energy” would still be there.

    Again, it’s a matter of evolution vs devolution. We ARE learning through experience, and we DO accumulate charge doing that. Both of those factors would be admitted by both “sides” in this debate. It’s a Yin-Yang pair — evolution (learning through experience) being Yin and devolution (charge accumulation) Yang. The question is which one is more important. My position is that Dianetics and Scientology are a quantum leap forward in getting rid of the charge that for 99.999% of people has accumulated to the point of completely blocking any chance they have for total, permanent spiritual liberation no matter what else they do. That’s not to say that nothing else is useful, or that Dianetics and Scientology are ALL that one must do to make it out the top, just that at this point in time Dianetics and Scientology are a necessary step for almost everyone — not necessarily everyone, but very, very close to everyone.

    The underlying religious philosophical issue in all this for me is, “Where did thetans and the universe come from in the first place?” If the universe came first, as an “emanation from God,” with thetans being a “separate emanation” that started as little “seeds” that then interacted with the universe in order to “grow” so that they could eventually “know their Creator, and be one with Him,” then evolution would be of primary importance, with getting rid of charge just housekeeping along the way — useful, even necessary, but in the final analysis secondary.

    On the other hand, if thetans individually and collectively ARE God, and collaborated to create the universe, only to then get trapped in it, with possibly some thetans trying to be God to the exclusion of others (the traditional view in ancient Gnosticism, which Scientology actually resembles more than it does Buddhism), then evolution is not the main issue — reversing the accumulation of entrapping charge is. (When I said “the universe may not be as benign as many seekers believe,” this is what I was referring to. I certainly didn’t mean that anyone should be afraid of the universe as in the “dangerous environment” false idea that Scientology Zero (c. 1960) was designed to help them overcome.)

    In the Yin-Yang balance, as I see it Scientology’s purpose is NOT to enable beings to “grow into union with God.” It’s to help them slough off what prevents them from knowing who and what THEY actually are. It then leaves the questions of “who or what is God, and what is our relationship to Him, Her, or It?” for us to answer on our own. That allows room for each Scientologist to have his own religion in the conventional sense, and positions Scientology as a complementary booster to it rather than a replacement.

  298. martyrathbun09

    Making judgments that no one has made it, nor possibly can, but by your own chosen path is what I was applying the characterization to. Do you realize that the view that evolution is directed by off-planet engineers is far, far more of an effect viewpoint than even Darwinism? And quite a corroboration of the originally expressed view that I took up, i.e. that the universe is a far unfriendlier place than seekers seem to believe. I think the Tao invites you to take another look and test out how true that proposition really is. I have no issue with disagreements – I’ve said before that one of the greatest abilities Scientology delivered to me was to disagree.

  299. martyrathbun09

    That dog was in the 4th dimension!

  300. Diogenes, do you have any knowledge or experience with meditation that is practiced without a mantra or concentrating on the breath or some such?

  301. martyrathbun09

    Auditing for one.

  302. Thanks, Marty. I think of auditing as directed “looking” (confronting) and flowing live energy at the facsimiles directed to, as described in Understanding the E-meter, if I remember right. This would be in contrast to OT TO 0, which is to just “be there”, a change from the original “be there and confront”. Sometimes I’ve wondered if it shouldn’t have been shortened further to simple “be”, which would take one out of the PT of the physical universe. Any thoughts you have on these points would be highly appreciated!

  303. martyrathbun09

    The parallel is the actual activity that causes salutary effects. Seeing constructions of the mind exactly for what they are at which point they as-is (disappear) or become objects of the subject (viewer) and no longer are mistaken as part of oneself – in either event, losing their hold on the gal or fella. I heard Ron say over and over in his lectures that if he found out that sitting on one’s head in the corner would create that salutary effect, he’d add it to the line up. In my opinion, auditing is the highest, most powerful form of meditation there is – provided it is understood for what it is, and not made an object of worship, ritual, morality, and the plethora of other things folks have proven it can be made.

  304. OM, that makes me laugh when I remember the times
    in the SO when I opened the doors for the young
    Messengers and they had such different responses.
    Or, even worse, when I openly complimented any
    beautiful SO woman on her appearance!

  305. Focus, you are indeed a wealth of discussion opportunities. 🙂 All an auditor is, is “One who listens”. Auditing is listening. Do you remember years ago you could walk into a drugstore just about anywhere and buy your route to Clear for about $3.99? It was called DMSMH (Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health). A small paperback book that people read and then sat down in their kitchens and audited out real engrams on people with. People went Clear from this. Even LRH said so in 1978. Not even an e-meter required. That is the truth and the beauty of it. Today, in the Church of Scientology it is unheard of, it is blasphemy for anyone should do this. They are suppressive says the church and mixing pure anadulterated tech with their “own philosophies”. Their own philosophies I ask? Gotten from a Dianetics book? GET REAL! 🙂 Church goer’s need their HRD, an IAS membership, Objectives, sec checks, amends, the Basics course, BEFORE they can even “begin to approach” such things as actual engram running. And all of this for a mere $162,000.00. If the money is not detoured to one of the New Civilization Buildings that is being “Ideal Org’d”. 🙂 YET, years ago, and still today, people just sit down in their kitchens, or dens or parlors and confront and listen to their friends. They audit them and sometimes Clear them. Audting is so simple, so natural, is easy to do for ANYONE that has even just one friend that they enjoy listening to. Engrams, already happened to the person, they are history that just needs to be confronted. 🙂

  306. Just a simple wrap up Diogenes to consider my original post that sparked the fun:

    Basically I posited a basic state that a path must deliver, from my experience. Then you made statements of “keyed out.” which was a challenge to the validity and effectiveness of other paths. I then challenged your view, and you presented your experience as you understand it.

    I think we both gave it a good shot and conveyed our understandings to each other. Isn’t life grand! So much variety in so many wonderful people!

    Thank you for your time and passion.

    I am glad that you find so much inspiration and support from your chosen path in Scientology

  307. You’re making me feel dangerous!

  308. Remind me to never get on the wrong side of you!

  309. Yes. And I agree with Marty when he says that auditing is the “highest, most powerful form of meditiation there is.”

  310. Brian, I’m happy for us each to go our merry way. However, for the record, you didn’t actually respond to the specifics of what I said. At best, we’ve agreed to disagree, and have not found any greater truth together than we had individually before we started.

  311. You harp on “don’t take an effect viewpoint” too much. The truth is that at any given point in time, each of us is cause over some things and at effect of others. That’s just life. It’s inherent in any and every game.

    There’s nothing wrong with auditing someone on being effect, running out the charge he created on the motivator flow by resisting being effect (which in the final analysis is just receving communication), and letting him cognite for himself on how his own causation turned the experience into something bad from his point of view. With that out of the way, you can then go on to auditing him on the overt outflow, etc. One of the worst technical errors going on in the Church is skipping running ARC Breaks and going right for the Missed Witholds the Church has a vested interest in insisting must be there.

    Re off-planet genetic engineering being more “at effect thinking” than Darwin, so what? If you lost your money by getting mugged rather than overspending, you’d still be without your money. And you’d be a lot more likely to get it back by recognizing the truth that someone took it from you. What is really at-effect thinking is believing that the physical evolution of bodies has anything whatsoever to do with the spiritual evolution of thetans.

    Re how unfriendly the universe is, I think it’s obvious that it contains both friendly and unfriendly thetans. Ultimately we have to agree to be harmed by the unfriendly ones for that to occur. But it would be foolish indeed to deny their existence. There’s a Zen story about a samurai assassin who was ordered to kill a tea master suspected of running a gathering place for spies. When the assassin confronted the tea master with the obvious intention to kill him, the tea master said he’d gladly co-operate, but first he would like to give the assassin the gift of serving him tea. Out of respect and politeness the assassin agreed After they had their tea, the assassin said, “I give up. I cannot kill you. You are so much more a master of tea than I am of the sword that i wouldn’t stand a chance against you, even though you are unarmed.” The tea master avoided death by not resisting what was happening. But he was not in denial that death had come for tea that afternoon.

    With your permission I’m going to end off on our discussion now, with both you and Brian. It’s been fun, but I didn’t expect it would run so long as it has, and at this point I can’t give it any more time. Thanks for the comm.

  312. Flexible Flyer

    Thanks for the great video.

  313. martyrathbun09

    But I found some greater truth by the process of your discussion. So, thanks.

  314. martyrathbun09

    WHen you note the following you are taking me far too literally: You harp on “don’t take an effect viewpoint” too much. The truth is that at any given point in time, each of us is cause over some things and at effect of others. That’s just life. It’s inherent in any and every game. It is Scientology’s consistent implantation of the goal to achieve a state of total cause that is probably the factor more responsible than any other for its constructing a glass ceiling in terms of higher levels of consciousness. Thus, you misread me entirely on that score. Regarding this statement of yours, Re how unfriendly the universe is, I think it’s obvious that it contains both friendly and unfriendly thetans, if you ever get around to reading What Is Wrong With Scientology? you’ll see where I liberally quote from L. Ron Hubbard for the proposition that it that very belief that prevents the attainment of the state of Clear. No need for you to leave. Review the entire thread; I disagree that it served no educational purpose.

  315. In this thread you have repeatedly, in various ways, altered the meaning or intention of things I’ve said so you could oppose those alterations. If you have points to make, please do so without misrepresenting and using me or anyone else as a straw man.

    I never said that some thetans are fundamentally, originally, basically unfriendly. All beings are basically good. But it’s totally obvious that basically good beings can have evil purposes and operate to harm others. Beings do commit overts, and they do receive motivators. Anyone living life has to contend with this fact. That doesn’t justify opp-terming. See the story of the tea master in my last post.

    And, by the way, my recognition that thetans can be unfriendly at times didn’t get in the way of my being Clear.

  316. You’re quite welcome. What greater truth did you find?

  317. martyrathbun09

    Diogenes, you protesteth too much. I think a cool look at this thread will demonstrate that I haven’t done what you allege at all.

  318. martyrathbun09

    It is inexpressible without creating more strife, something I believe that the implanted view of being a product of the ‘only way’ makes inevitable when encountering truth.

  319. You said, “It is Scientology’s consistent implantation of the goal to achieve a state of total cause that is probably the factor more responsible than any other for its constructing a glass ceiling in terms of higher levels of consciousness.”

    I agree that this has been a problem, and offer the following .

    Too many Scientologists, especially in the Church, have an MU on Pan Determinism. They think it just means causing the other guy to do what you want. But what about the other guy’s Pan Determinism?

    The Responsibility Scale of 1962 defines Pan Determinism as “full responsibility for both sides of the game.” But Total Cause is a no-games condition, and therefore could not be the sole factor in Pan Determinism. On the Responsibility Scale, LRH put Other Determinism ABOVE Self Determinism and below Pan Determinism. So, moving up from Self Determinism to Pan Determinism has to include becoming willing to receive an effect.

    For two people to both be totally Pan Determined with each other, they’d have to be in total agreement on a Self Determined basis, and that would have to include each allowing himself to be effect of the other, as required by the comm formula within the context of ARC.

    So what Pan Determinism really means is getting into great ARC with others, who are equally in great ARC with you, and having co-action with them that lets everyone win from his own point of view and everyone else’s point of view, too.

    One step above that is Enlightenment, in which the true nature of the players and the game is realized. Therefore if Pan Determinism is not fully understood, Enlightenment cannot be reached.

  320. Since you’ve recommended a book to me, here’s one for you. Check out “Lectures on Ancient Philosophy” by Manly P. Hall. It’s a bit of a tough read, because he has his own terminology, and he’s a little too much into symbols. But if you can get through that, it’s a great exposition of the occult Gnostic tradition that was far more of an antecedent for many of LRH’s basic ideas than he or anyone else ever credited. I’d put it right up there with Buddhism, Freud, and General Semantics.

  321. martyrathbun09

    I know a bit about it, and I would agree with you assessment. Thanks for the reference.

  322. martyrathbun09

    Good point. I was just discussing this ‘pan-determinism’ construct with my wife in like terms last night. Unfortunately, it implies – by its very words – a total causation on the part of the individual (determinism) over all (pan). That is an absolute that is, by the very nature of its absoluteness, unattainable. Pursued too hard puts one right back into a GPM (concentrated duality) of magnitude.

  323. This was an interesting thread between you two.

    I agree with you both “Pan Determinism” is a very much misunderstood concept.
    Have you ever tried to see Pan Determinism in the context of The Factors?
    It may be a very interesting excercise.


  324. martyrathbun09

    Yes, very interesting and illuminating.

  325. Well Marty, like Brian, you haven’t responded to my actual points. Both of you have ignored what I said about getting charge off in a specific, focused way. In the other paths that you apparently now think can be substituted for Scientology, how is charge to be dealt with? Please be specific. In what path? What exactly are the techniques that reduce and erase charge?

    Or do you now think case is all significance, and mass doesn’t matter?

    LRH’s breakthrough was that he dealt with the mass that holds significances in place. If all one had to do to become enlightened was listen to Jesus or a Hindu sage talk about loving one’s neighbor, then we wouldn’t need Scientology. But there is MASS in the way. Dianetics and Scientology are designed to reduce and erase that mass so the significance (words, ideas, insights) of those other path gurus can work — faster, for more people, and with less risk of relapse.

    In the other paths that you now see as completely workable and self-sufficient routes to the spiritual freedom sought by Scientologists, how is mass and charge erased? Be specific. How is it done?

    And if it’s not done, how and why do those paths work despite not reducing or erasing mass and charge?

    The idea of the subconscious mind and traumatic incidents originally came from the 19th century hypnotherapist Charcot. His student Breuer then discovered that the force in the subconscious mind that was driving neuroses in patients was the same force that prevented them from remembering the traumatic incidents that were the source of those neuroses. Breuer’s student Freud then found himself at a fork in the research road. He could try to reduce the force that was in the way, or try to somewhow get around it. He chose to go around it, and developed dream analysis and free association.

    These techniques were sometimes successful and sometimes not. They enabled Freud to actually help and even cure some people. But his effectiveness was quite limited. Then his student Wilhelm Reich, who Freud lauded as the only person who had ever truly duplicated and understood his work, decided to give the other fork in the road a try. He developed methods of physically discharging force from the subconscous mind, and thereby achieved results several times greaer than Freud’s. I don’t know if LRH knew about Reich’s work, but Dianetics was the next logical step in that evolution.

    OF COURSE, mass and charge ultimately are a self-created delusion, about which a thetan can change his mind at any time. But as a practical matter that doesn’t happen very often on its own. The mass and charge exist because of the thetan previously postulating that he couldn’t or shouldn’t confront something. Auditing gets him to reach and withdraw on an area and thereby bleed off enough of its stored energy to enable the pc to see his old postulates and change his mind about them. But he has to go through the process of the TA going up and then coming down to get there. Then he can change his mind AND not relapse.

    Before and even after getting into Scientology I looked into and practiced a lot of Eastern and Western “other paths,” and did make gains with some of them. But I never found anything remotely as effective as Dianetics and Scientology for getting off charge and mass so I could change my mind. Meanwhile, I did see a lot of false enlightenment being produced by those other paths, that amounted to “key-out after a blow,” mood-making, and the turning on of pleasurable somatics similar to those from taking drugs. I saw people becoming addicted to those pleasurable somatics — simply trading “bad” somatics for “good” ones.

    At the same time, I met other-path practitioners who did seem to be very aware, and I knew enough about such a wide range of other paths that I knew there was great wisdom marbled into them, including the possibility of ultimate liberation if one could find and practice just the right path, in just the right way, for a very long time. But I never found “just the right path in just the right way,” and I had already put in such a “very long time” seeking liberation, achieving it, and losing it on the whole track that when I ran into the theory of Dianetics and Scientology, and got such astonishing, liberating results from my initial auditing, that I recognized LRH had the tools I’d been missing for millenia, and that as a purely practical matter it made sense to focus on using those tools only. But I never gave up my recognition of the wisdom contained in the theory I’d studied on other paths.

    So, here’s my challenge to you. Please answer this one question. What specific techniques in other paths do you now see as enabling a person to reduce and erase mass and charge from his case, in volume and rapidly, so he can change his mind?

  326. Yes, The Factors: “But there are other viewpoints.” Total Cause and total Pan Determinism could not exist without being part of total ARC among all thetans playing in the same universe, and therefore “would bring about the vanishment of that universe.” The more interesting question is, “What then happens to the thetans?”

  327. Cool Marty,

    I truly can see the evolution in your work, progressing, and you personally balancing. It is in no way meant as eval.

    Another great trick is to apply the Code of Honor on all 4 flows.
    The narrative of the PAB is often skipped in publications, but therein LRH describes some of the most powerful abilities of a being.
    Applying and observing the Code of Honor in Action on different flows brings about a deeper understanding of the different kinds of behaviour of people. And can therefore help to recover the ability for pan-determinism.

    Power to you, Marty.

  328. I like Steve!!lol

  329. martyrathbun09

    Read the Tao lately and attempted to observe it?

  330. I was just discussing this ‘pan-determinism’ construct with my wife in like terms last night. Unfortunately, it implies – by its very words – a total causation on the part of the individual (determinism) over all (pan). That is an absolute that is, by the very nature of its absoluteness, unattainable. Pursued too hard puts one right back into a GPM (concentrated duality) of magnitude.
    I agree – in fact at this “high level of causation” you could excersize this level of pan-determinism, but only theoretically. As life is lived by many, Hubburd correctly stated that the optimum way of living is around 20.0/22.0 on the tone-scale.
    “Absolute pan-determinism” is of the same magnitude of illusion as “total freedom”, “total cause”, “All my postulates go true” and all the other traps.
    Of course there could be total freedom, but it would also be a freedom of game.

    However, pan-determinism is a good concept if applied wiseley.
    You could for example determine that it is sometimes better to let go, to grant beingness or any other harmonious/harmonizing turn.
    (I have often stated on this blog that MUST HAVE / CAN’T HAVE is the absence of the ability to let go.)

  331. martyrathbun09

    You are uncontrolably mocking up resistance – something that Scientology, sanely applied, handles quite well. Actually General Semantics even wouldn’t allow for these, compuslive alterations of yours. Here are
    two new ones you sprouted in order to apparently have an enemy or opponent to continue to fight with:
    paths that you apparently now think can be substituted for Scientology – I never said that nor did I suggest it.
    In the other paths that you now see as completely workable and self-sufficient routes to the spiritual freedom sought by Scientologists – I never said that nor did I suggest it.
    You are not listening to me. You are reacting to me. I am challenging your absolutist statements. You are then creating straw men to slay. This is what I call Scientology Sophism. Its best remedy is to take a chill pill (and just so that that is not converted into a ‘pro-drug’ lesson, I will define a chill pill as follows, take a walk and notice all the things in the environment that are not threatening you in present time.) This entire exercise is in furtherance of suggesting Scientologists learn to integrate if they want to ever have the slightest chance of convincing anyone to partake of Scientology or the ideas of L. Ron Hubbard.

  332. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the wisdom. I think that optimum living lies somewhere signficantly above 20 to 22.

  333. I’m sure you’ll find the spot. 😉

    Actually LRH said at this tone level you’ll have the optimum randomity.
    I’ll admit that a optimum living may be something different for you.

  334. martyrathbun09

    Yeah. I look at the chart sort of in an expanded way – more than simply emotions I believe it reflects states of consciousness, and as such a number of others also fit in.

  335. I understand.
    If you have a old copy of “Scientology: 8-80” (I have here the 1973 edition, it’s not in the “Golden Age” Edition) there is a article on the “tone scale” in the glossary. It’s a longer description with a illustration of a circle. I am sure you know this one. However, maybe you like to have a look on it in a new unit of time. It’s very philosophical and I don’t know any other place where the tone-scale is described in the same way. Interestingly enough, it will give some hints about my above statements.

    And yes, as you, I also consider the tone scale partly as the gradient scale of consciousness.

  336. Marty, Diogenes and SKM – Regarding Pan Determinism. You might want to take another look at Tech Vol 1 Journal of Scientology mid June 53 entitled This is Scientology The Science of Certainty.

    I have several times come back to this issue for the incredible diagram of the Triangle of Certainty of Awareness. It is a rising tone scale triangle of Own Universe, Physical Universe and the Others’ Universe.

    I won’t try and repeat all of what is written. I find it telling “these three univeres are interactive to the degree that one raises all three by raising one, but one can raise two only so far before it is restrained by the uncertainty on the third. Thus, any point on this triangle is capable of suppressing the other two points and any point of this triangle is capable of raising the other two points.”

    Without an understanding and assimilation of a full few on all dynamics on all 3 lines of this diagram I don’t believe one can truly be free. To me true pan determinism is now only to push forward your single line of intention but to be able to view and play the game with all others at the same time. This requires unity with the dynamics of others. Definitely not workable in a closed system which denies and ignores the universes of “others.”

    I have thoroughly enjoyed your dialogue along this line of thinking. Thanks for the enlightenment and gentle stretching of the confines of the box from which we find ourselves attempting to think outside of.

  337. Marty, thanks very much. Just one other question if I may. For someone whose current logistics make auditing not really an option. do you have a particular form of meditation you would recommend? And would you even recommend “drilling” OT TR 0, without a twin, as a type of meditation?

  338. martyrathbun09

    I would recommend TRs 0 through 9 with some old schools soul who believes in walking the walk and eshews this pseudo-indie crap about talking the talk.

  339. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that SKM.

  340. That sounds like a great idea. TR 8 was never really real to me although I never had trouble with intention on TR 9 – my coaches seemed to definitely feel it. I know a Clear (LLT, audited by LRH) who apparently got very good at TR 8 and can spot masses in his space and blow them by inspection. Unfortunately, even if he were interested in doing more TRs, he lives in Canada. So anyway, now I just have to locate an old-school type, as you say, who’s interested in doing TRs. Thanks again. 🙂

  341. Just jumping in here on the discussion of pan-determinism. Their is an article in the Second Dynamic book, which I believe is called “The Dynamics and the Tone Scale”. It talks about the Cause-Cause Relationship, wherein one accepts/assigns/take ownership for the effects the other has created, even though you know you didn’t cause (or can be “blamed” for) those effects. You just accept them as your own and there is now one else to blame. You are able to be that other person and, from their point of view, causatively have any effects they have created as well as, if necessary, take any remedial actions just as if they were your own. This assuming of cause (i.e. I am willing to accept ownership for [not blame for]) can be applied on all Dynamics. It’s an assumption of responsibility for. In this manner, one can accept cause/responsibility for even the children being killed by drone strikes on the other side of the planet. Taking ownership for it and the effects created that prompted such drone strikes, for example, IS pan-determinism – which is a scale of responsibility for the Dynamics commensurate with and directly related to the Tone Scale and therefore of course not an absolute.

  342. Very well said.

  343. You’re welcome Marty. Thanks for the “fruity” dialogue in this thread.

    Sapere Aude,
    yes, indeed a very great reference.
    One of my favorite along with The Factors, the Admiration Lectures and everything Scientology from around that time.

  344. Marty, that was a very refreshing talk!

    As I have had my own awakening and time to reanalyze what I have been doing in and with Scientology – both subject and organization, what you communicated is quite real to me.

    Having gone from an organization that emphasized greater ability as it’s primary goal in the 60’s and 70’s to the ultra rigid, militant cult of today, the delivery system of the church has gotten so super serious that it has become introverted… spiraling down the tone scale… and now alter-ises the true tech. With today’s emphasis being on stat (ironically, it is square footage rather than case gain) rather than product it is a natural sequence of events that a person would lose gain in the church. A testament to the tech workability is the amount of recovered case gain there has been almost immediate to leaving the church. Now, with emphasis on product once again…bridge progress is limited only by a person’s reach and desire.
    Anyone with any depth on the subject knows that Ron was all about integration. Simply looking at the comm formula, the Factors and the Chart of Human Evaluation and the data covered on the Minister’s course, one can see that free exchange of ideas is very high on the tone scale. Yet, at the same time, Standard tech is just that, standard. And, when done standardly, it gets consistent results…all the time! Again, great talk!

  345. I’ve been unraveling on this the last few days. Expanding on this truth as I see it. I have become even more inflamed when I consider the time and effort and sacrifice, Marty, Mike, Karen, their friends and their loved ones have spent to turn around this course of events on their own time and their own dime. Every action counts. It really does.

    Everyone who ever recorded at Motown helped Obama become president of the United States. Everybody matters in the long run.

    Everyone who ever recorded at Chess records helped Obama become president.

    The power started out with something very theta.

    We are theta.

    David Miscavige is infamous right here, right now, on this planet.

    Xenu is some forgone incident. Actually, I loved him. He got a little gamely and self absorbed. He got into WINNING. I got into trouble for admitting I still loved him and forgave him. Even in the Freezone with one auditor.

    He was better than Miscavige. He made people feel VERY loved. There was only treasure and power at stake. NOT immortality. It was all about politics, NOT sanity. He was a politician, a business person, not a religious leader. He never promised immortality while fucking up people’s minds. Religion never entered into it.

    Miscavige has been fucking with other people’s sanity. While promising to make them sane.

    I can’t believe there are people getting through OT3 and accepting David Miscavige!

    I am not vindictive in the big picture.

    I can do a contact assist. That puts me above it all.

    If you can reach again, on some level you win.

    David has just worked to cut everybody’s reach for Scientology.

    And I don’t really care if he was successful 99.9% of the time.

    That is not success.

    That 1% is a power. There are no absolutes. He has set himself for an unattainable goal, not us.

    What some people will do for attention never ceases to amaze me.

  346. martyrathbun09

    That idea is cover quite ably in the lecture titled Marriage in the State Of Man lecture series.

  347. David, not for nothing but you have become like Nixon 30 years later. People don’t like you. You have become politically incorrect . In fact , the majority view you as an insect. Will you really sit there, solid posing as some furniture, some intact? Yes! Stupid mother fucker you will sit there until the FBI explains where you are really at!

  348. Marty, after a long while of not reading anything but the titles of your blog posts, which,to me, seemed like they might be more revolutions of exploring the Karpman Drama Triangle (victim, persecutor, rescuer) as it relates to the Scn story, and I had no interest in that, something happened.

    For those sources from which I receive steady emails, I have set up filters so that comm from those sources go into their designated folder and don’t show up in my inbox. However, on the 15th of Feb, I was surprised to see your post, Sitting in Judgement, in my inbox and not in my ‘Marty’ folder. As I have come to more easily recognize the guiding influence of BIG ME, I knew I was to read this post. And so I did and Wow! Your blog, the incredibly rich comments, the openness of those commenting in sharing diverse perspectives, their truths and insights and very little Karpman Drama Triangle showing up…..well, something seemed to have shifted. But, is it a fluke or is it a veritable shift is the question I was asking self. Now, more than a few blogs later, for where I’m viewing, a shift, at some point, did most definitely occur and is now showing up in form. And, personally, I think it’s wonderful!

    The ‘shift’, though, is not just peculiar to Scientology or Scientologists. A spiritual shift in awareness, perspective, consciousness, or whatever other label one might want to assign to it, is happening everywhere. Anecdotally, I live in Ar (deep Bible Belt country) and have cross flowed, for the last ten years people that I personally know and many I don’t, who have been devoted to their churches and religious faith/beliefs, leave their churches and, in many cases, their lifetime religious beliefs, in search of…? Some of these folks are now doing what they refer to as ‘Home Church’, completely independent of any organized religion. Sound familiar? Some are starting new churches around their interpretations of the Bible adding to the 25 thousand or so denominations of Christianity. Also I see and hear (on the radio ads) that the churches are scrambling to try and hold onto their congregations, especially the youth. In this desperation, some unusual solutions are manifesting. But the youth are asking questions but not questions that youth have not asked before. However, there is now the internet and those questions can be asked of large audiences.

    A few days ago I received a promo piece in my inbox from, Barnet Bain, a person I subscribe to. It was a deja vu moment for me. The promo opened like this:

    “Dear Monte,

    “Why is it that no matter how many workshops we take part in, retreats we attend, books we read and meditations we do…we don’t feel like we’re expressing the highest human capacities available to us?

    “Many of us sense there’s a bigger, bolder life to be lived—not only for us personally, but for everyone.

    “We’ve even had glimpses of a way of being human that personifies rare integrity, freedom, and wholeness–and we dream of all that could result from sustaining that ideal.

    “The question is, what will get us all the way there? What can we do to really become “the change we wish to see”—for good?

    “I’m excited to let you know that pioneers on the leading edge of consciousness research have identified a critical missing piece of this puzzle—and it can dramatically accelerate our personal and cultural evolution.”
    As I’ve been reading your blogs Marty, as I’ve been reading the abundant commentary from the intellectuals, the philosophers, the intellectual philosophers, the seekers of truth, the pilgrims and so on that contribute to your blogs and, as I’ve occasionally added my own input, a question began to form. And it was what Barnet stated in his promo piece that that brought that question into clarity. In Barnet’s first four paragraphs he described and summarized, IMO, the content (the purpose) that is initiating the worldwide spiritual awakening. My question(s), though, is…Why? Why is it that so many of us know that there is a bigger bolder life to be lived and not just for ourselves but for every one? Why is it that we don’t feel like we’re expressing the highest human capabilities available to us? Why is it that we know that higher capabilities exist?

    I believe, that in a way, I’ve entered into a prolonged moment of deja vu and it very much seems like I’ve been here before. And not just once before but many times before. I wonder, what’s going on? And as I wonder, a holograph has appeared in my vicinity. It’s a three dimensional circle. On this circle there is an onion. The onion is full of time. Moving clockwise away from the onion, layer after layer, the onion diminishes. As each layer of the onion is removed, there is less time and the time remaining goes faster. When the onion completely disappears time has run out. Where it disappears, though, is right back at the whole onion where time resets and the process begins again in a new cycle of time. The cycle repeats and repeats and repeats. Could it be that all our conceptualizing, analyzing, interpretizing, categorizing, spiritualizing etc. that eventually ends up in a fully peeled onion just causes ‘the game’ (including amnesia) to reset?

    Thank you Marty and much thanks to all you other seekers of truth. I’m enormously appreciative that I can come here and have my perspectives broadened by others rather than adjusted by others. There is an awakening in progress that your blog is most definitely contributing to Monty.

  349. The Tao Te Ching was one of the first books I read in regards to philosphy and understanding life and a process of understanding towards living a better one. I have a great affinity for the teachings of Lao Tzu as well as many other teachers of Taoism, Zen and Buddhism. It was when I drew parallels between Scientology and what I learned from texts I’ve read on Taoism, Zen and Bhuddism (and to an extent Hinduism) that LRH’s teaching really began to resonate with me. And yes, LRH pays hommage to ancient Asian philosphies, often, throughout his own work.

    In Quantum Mechanics they have discovered that sub-atomic particles don’t merely exist in a fixed observable state but actually pop in and out of existence. In Quantum Mechanics it has also been observed that the mere fact of observing changes things on a sub-atomic level. In essence adding scientific proof or foundation to much that LRH has put forth in his works (the idea of posulates for example) and the works of ancient philosphies stemming out of Asia like the Tao Te Ching. Perhaps humorously it takes Science thousands of years and things like miles long particle accelorators to accept that which ancient mystics and philosphers believed all along.

  350. Marty,

    Have you read LRH’s “One Was Stubborn” novelette? It’s a typically playful funny LRH short novelette length story about a dissenting retired farmer not wishing to go along with a successful earth cult leader in the future, who has trained people to use the cult leader’s techniques to as-is the world, excepting the retired stubborn ex farmer is one of the cult leader’s holdouts.

    For a 1940 fiction story by LRH, to me, it’s so much got LRH’s early thoughts about a number of the key strains that later recur in Scientology.

    Please read it in the years to come, and blog on it.

    If there were a ying era of Scientology, and a yang era, this pulp story by LRH is in the ying era of Hubbard’s thinking.

  351. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Monte. It is really nice to hear that some folk appreciate what we attempting to do here. As far as the bible belt folk go, I once did a recommendation for the book The Shack which has set off a sort of transcendence in Christian circles, I think there are some interesting evolutions in thought manifesting with the progression of, and with the assistance of, the Age of Information.

  352. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Chuck, I’ll look it up.

  353. Hi Marty! Thanks for hosting my message.

    I’d like to add a little something –that both sides (the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’) are ours. They don’t exist by themselves. They are created. by whom? By ourselves alone. Word says “nothing can happen to you unless you postulate it”. See, it doesn’t say “…unless your neighbour postulates it”, or “…unless Miscavige postulates it”. It says “you”. All that is happening to you (me, us, them) is that. So, what is then positive and negative?

    I can’t give a refference right now, but I remember hearing by Ron that ‘we’ (Scientologists) don’t have to be the good nor the bad. That in some chinese philosophy there is ‘the golden line’ which embraces all. That’s it.

    And there’s no exceptions. Don’t get victimised by SPs and this and that…unless you want to, of course.

    Create and experience.


  354. Gentlemen were very rare in the Sea Org. Most of the men there were competing with you on some level. If they were very senior they were just into domination. That was really sick. Alan Hubbard was a gentleman, so was Milt Wolfe, Rick Alexander, Simon Hogarth. Ivan Obelinsky. Clive Dowdell. Lars Asplund…

    Men yelling at women was accepted by them! Sometimes on Org staff too., Bill Franks use to smack around Jeannie Franks when they were married and working at the D.C. Org.

    A guy yelled at me once in the Sea Org and I slapped him. I just felt I had that right. I guess he did too because he turned around and walked away.

  355. “I think there are some interesting evolutions in thought manifesting with the progression of, and with the assistance of, the Age of Information.”

    With what you expressed in mind Marty and in my speaking of awakening, here’s an excerpt from Ken Carey’s book, Return of the Bird Tribes (c) 1988 that might broaden the horizon.

    “The most significant effect of the Industrial era is that it has birthed the Information Age and has brought us into communication with your race on a scale far beyond what otherwise would have emerged.

    “The Industrial Revolution drew the inherent contradictions of the fearful state into high visibility. At a time when the intelligence level among human beings has risen to unprecedented heights, almost to the very threshold of awakening, global communication systems now keep human attention focused upon the problems that result from fear centered ways of thinking. It will keep your attention focused on these problems until you solve them through the only act that can: a total departure from the entire warrior paradigm. This departure from the old ways of history has begun.

    “Our consciousness flows daily through the word processors of a thousand creative thinkers. Our insights and perspectives are bubbling beneath the surface of dozens of new movies, hundreds of new books, and thousands of news articles and popular songs each year. Humankind is linked in a single socioeconomic community that now closely monitors all new and potentially relevant information.

    “Your present global civilization is rooted upon premises of separation from God as flawed as any civilization that came before, but it has dynamically accelerated our education of your race. It has increased human intelligence across the board. Hundreds of thousands of you are now about to understand something that two hundred years ago we could only get through in bits and fragments to a few, isolated individuals.”

    One more (from the same book)….

    “People paying more attention to what other people tell them than to their own perception is the beginning of civilization.

    “It is the beginning of a twisting, warping influence that ultimately produces a shift in human orientation: from the internal guidance of the Great Spirit to external dominance by others.

    “Civilization does not occur among healthy people. In healthy, non-historical societies, people are not concerned with other people’s fantasies. They are certainly not manipulated through externally imposed descriptions of reality.”

  356. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that.

  357. I wouldn’t donate for DM to do that. I think he would make more case gain and learn more on an RPF co-audit with Adolf Hitler.

  358. I loved the video. LRH observed that most people don’t understand big or rare words. In the mid 60s he started using simple words in his communication and stopped using the rare words.
    Sadly you lose a huge section of your audience when you say things like “predicated upon”.
    I didn’t go past any misunderstood words in what you said but many did.
    You look quite changed and relaxed in the video. I like the direction.
    I meet Scientologists who have not studied the Student Hat frequently. I would have them study that before the Tao.
    LRH came out with KTL beacause people didn’t understand WTF he was saying.

  359. Pingback: Ishmael | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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