Is Spirit of Quality or Quantity?

For the first several years of L. Ron Hubbard’s research into a path to enlightenment, his focus was on simplicity. In that wise, his quest aligned perfectly with the ancient universal truths he sought to make more easily and uniformly attainable.  Those truths, per Hubbard, were particularly well articulated by Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha), and Lao Tzu in the Tao Te Ching.   Hubbard seemed to understand, and could communicate in modern language, the Buddhist and Taoist descriptions of the spiritual, the difficult to conceptualize ideas of ‘emptiness’ or  ‘nothingness.’  Hubbard lectured as follows on 1 December 1954:

You can have a quality in complete absence of a quantity.  You don’t have to be “a quart of good boy.”  And this was what he (the scientist) was assuming, see.  The next time you see a pound of lust, send it around and we’ll put it in a museum.  These things are not quantitative.

So we had to get out of quantitative thinking, thinking in terms of objects and masses, before we had any real comprehension of existence.  And this was very easy to do. Very easy to do.  You merely had to define what zero was .  And we find that life, basically the awareness of awareness unit in life, is not a thing of quantity – not even vaguely of quantity. It is a thing of quality, of ability. 

Where you have ability, you have life. Where you have space, energy, mass…I don’t care what kinds of energy.  The energy contained in your engrams.  The energy contained in mental pictures.  The space contained in your visios or lack of them.  Anytime you have any quantity of any kind, you have walked downhill from life.  Just like that.  And this works out.  This works out in processing, works out gorgeously.

Scientology counseling (processing or auditing) does work out quite gorgeously when a thetan (the awareness of awareness unit, or individual spiritual being) is considered in this wise.   When this framework is kept in mind, Scientology procedures are rather simple.  That is because all of them are used toward the result of removing additives, or complexities, and returning the quality of the awareness of awareness unit to itself.   That quality is uniformly found to be good by universally recognized human standards.

Hubbard clearly mapped philosophy and procedures that brought about abilities (qualities) in a being that culminate in the state of Clear.  Hubbard defined a Clear as “an unrepressed and self-determined being” who is no longer subject to stimulus-response reactive thought processes.

Unfortunately, the issue becomes muddled as one assays to move higher on the Scientology path, called the Bridge.   Above Clear, the reached for states are no longer expressed in terms of freedoms from the additives that hamper a being.  Instead, Scientologists shoot for the vaunted state of ‘cause.’   Cause over matter, energy, space, time, and life is the state that is promised.   Powers become the target.   Rather than the removal of additives the goal becomes the inclusion of an additive, expressed in a term that infers physical properties or force, power.

In formal, organizational Scientology the relentless promotion and cultural propaganda and pressure hammer that theme home.  They seize upon some later seemingly contradictory words of Ron mentioned in policy letters and bulletins because of later turns Hubbard himself took.  By the mid sixties he began to contradict the maxim regarding quality versus quantity.  Beings were increasingly considered to vary in size, or to be recognizable by something other than quality, the new measure being quantity.

For example, in a policy letter issued on 22 March 1967 Hubbard introduced the idea of size with respect to thetans. He wrote,  ‘Some  thetans are bigger than others.  None are truly equal. ‘  He went on to instruct that smaller beings, whom he designated as degraded beings, occur ‘about eighteen to one over Big Beings in the human race (minimum ratio). ‘

Along with that shift of focus onto size came the introduction of different goals for processing.   Rather than the original goal of returning a being to the simple, uniformly good, freedom from the additives tainting the being’s quality, the focus went toward achieving powers.  Conditions of existence were issued along with formulas one could apply in life to improve one’s condition.  Those conditions were determined primarily by the quantity produced as measured by statistics. The most senior of those conditions to which all of them were designed to lead toward was called ‘Power.’  While those condition formulas were, and are, very workable, the schema contributed to a culture of lust toward attainment of power.

The very definition of power in Scientology radically changed as follows:

a)      The ability to maintain a position in space.  – 1 March 1958

b)      The amount of work which can be accomplished in a unit of time, or the amount of force which can be applied in a unit of time.  – 6 December 1966

Over time the adjective “powerful’ became regularly associated with ‘thetan’ in Scientology think and speak.   Scientologists began to promote and covet the idea of becoming a big, powerful  thetan.   Scientology promotion became more geared toward such ideas as ‘unleashing the power of the thetan’, and  bestowing ‘super power’.   Achievements in the Scientology world were ascribed as attributes of ‘powerful thetans’ and ‘big beings.’   Conversely, bad conduct was routinely condemned as that of smaller beings.

Exacerbating matters were more Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings based upon the size or power of the individual, particularly when that alleged size or power was abused in the forwarding of the power of Scientology as a movement.  Thus, in the policy The Responsibilities of Leaders, Hubbard’s ‘seven points of power’ suggested the ends justify the means when protecting the ‘power’ one relies upon for his own power.   Hubbard suggests the physical beating of the critic of the power one relies upon and serves is commendable behavior.  He even suggests that a real power would accept those who rely upon his power murdering enemies of the power.   And that a true power would encourage his underlings to keep him ignorant of the crimes they commit in increasing his power.  In fact another  Hubbard ethics policy letter stated that an individual who produced a lot toward expansion of Scientology could ‘get away with murder.’

In the years that Scientology evolved in this fashion, most particularly after the death of Hubbard, its very aims were demonstrably altered in significant ways.  Gradually, alleviating the world of ‘insanity’, ‘war’, and ‘criminality’ was replaced by a drive to wreak ‘planetary obliteration’ or exact ‘global vengeance’ against the Scientology-designated evil-doers of earth.

It fairly makes one wonder whether somewhere along the line Scientology lost sight of its own purpose and the quality of life it was created to restore.

Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’ that lost sight of their own very nature by introduction of the confusion of ‘quantity’ into the equation?

Or does Scientology address beings as ‘quantities’ that need to have some quantity added to them to become sufficiently big and powerful?

364 responses to “Is Spirit of Quality or Quantity?

  1. Its been my position all along that the value is in the lower end of the bridge. In the “earlier” LRH. Great job in once again putting it in perspective. Your worth more money. Thanks.

  2. I don’t think the two are necessarily mutually-exclusive – if your mind is in the right place, I believe it’s possible to have both.

    Love to all – keep smiling!
    IEG xx

  3. P.S. That is a VERY lovely picture under “family” on the page – what a handsome trio 🙂 xx

  4. Marty, this makes a lot of sense, you could say that as far as quantity goes, Miscavige has a lot of power; look at the quantities he has created! He is a product of the Scientology of the ’60s and ’70s after the focus shifted from quality to quantity.

  5. I think Hubbard just plain couldn’t stop creating.

    He probably had a beautiful philosophy totally codified and wrapped-up by the early or mid sixties.

    But then, the man just couldn’t stop creating on it. Couldn’t stop typing away at a thousand words per second. Couldn’t stop adding drama and space opera. Couldn’t stop piling policy after policy on top of the stack, contradicting himself. And perhaps couldn’t stop making big promises which, maybe, he knew he wouldn’t be able to keep.

    And so, to protect himself and his reputation, he designed and brought into being the “bad guys”. The “SP’s”. The “Criminal Psychotic” who dares to criticize the states of Clear and OT and Superman Level Ten over at Target Two. Get up the Bridge NOW before your next two hundred trillion are spent in agony. Join me into vistas which make heaven look like a slum. Sign a billion year contract because it’s “the sensible thing to do”. etc, etc, etc…

    It seems as if LRH was inviting his underlings to rob, 3rd party and even kill for him. Some of them definitely went to prison for some seriously criminal activity, no doubt encouraged at least by his later, ever-more-paranoid and perhaps even abusive, hypnotic-level, brainwashing “policy”.

    That said, due to LRH, I’ve seen some whole track, made gains and even gone exterior. So, for that I am grateful.

    But I’m also scratching my head at the 2nd half of his Scientology career.

    By the way………bigger is better.
    It’s all about quantity.

  6. Love it .One drop of water may not be the ocean/nor the ocean be only one drop. Some thing out side of both control it all.By drop or completely. That is where the power is.Outside the whole.

  7. Marty, you write:
    ” in the policy The Responsibilities of Leaders, Hubbard’s ‘seven points of power’ suggested the ends justify the means when protecting the ‘power’ one relies upon for his own power. Hubbard suggests the physical beating of the critic of the power one relies upon and serves is commendable behavior. He even suggests that a real power would accept those who rely upon his power murdering enemies of the power. And that a true power would encourage his underlings to keep him ignorant of the crimes they commit in increasing his power. “

    I know this Policy Letter was taken too literally too often.
    However, LRH wrote at the very beginning of the Issue the following.

    “I have written it this way, using two actual people, to give an example of magnitude enough to interest and to furnish some pleasant reading. And I used a military sphere so it could be seen clearly without restimulation of admin problems.”

    – LRH

    I don’t know if it is me only, but I never took the PL by the letter.

  8. “Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’ that lost sight of their own very nature by introduction of the confusion of ‘quantity’ into the equation?”

    Basically, yes. But I think you got it right when you nailed the ‘yang’ aspect of scientology. It seems like Ron embarked on a ‘Don Quixote quest’ to unite East and West, science and spirituality. He did a wonderful job out of it, and this kind of job is and will never be finished.

    In fact, in your last posts, you adress constantly this very same aspect from different viewpoints (tao of scientology, the enemy, etc). It makes me think about the four quadrants of Ken Wilber, an equation that Ron didn’t not fully resolved.

    The real problem is indeed the prevalence that the Quantity and Power aspect took in scientology, and the use of it by the only real SP I found in this movement.

    “Or does Scientology address beings as ‘quantities’ that need to have some quantity added to them to become sufficiently big and powerful?”

    For the 2 questions the taoïst answer would be: yes and no, for the 2 🙂

    I enjoyed the last posts, I am sorry to not answer it as I would like due to the language barrier. Anyway, you are challenging us with the Core of the problem.
    Thanks Marty

  9. Marty, this fits right in with the Yin/Yang discussion you started the other day. Getting rid of additives and back to the basic simplicity of the being sounds like Yin to me. Striving to become a big, powerful thetan is certainly Yang.

    In describing our beingness in terms of quality or quantity though it’s very easy to fall into a semantic trap because these pieces of the language evolved to apply to everyday experience, not the essence of the universe or the mysteries of existence. You can talk about quality in an abstract or hypothetical way but it doesn’t really mean much until that quality is assigned to something or someone. It’s that something or someone that has the quality. The quality doesn’t exist by itself except as an abstract description.

    I can sympathize with the philosophers’ dilemma in describing what is not a Thing, but isn’t Nothing either, because the words fall short. But while a spiritual being may not be measurable in physical universe terms, within the confines of the language it’s still correct to say that it ‘has’ a quality, not that it ‘is’ a quality. Unless one is the Red Queen, in which case the words mean whatever she wants them to mean.

  10. Great post! Makes sense and explains a lot of “confusions” I had with the Church. The Physical power is the “carrot” that DM is dangling in front of the members of his Church.
    AM grateful to have a friend like you !

  11. I think both concepts can be easily understood and brought in line together.

    In the 50’s when LRH started Scientology he saw a need to formulate some administrative technology based on the philosophy he created.
    Some of it was not perfect and we see the effects of the application up to this date.
    But I wouldn’t say that any of the concepts you described above is invalid if taken for itself.
    Let’s see the coditions of operation with its formulas up to power.
    True, these are conditions of operation (in the physical universe).
    And it says of course nothing about the spiritual qualities of the being who is in the condition of power. It only says that he worked hard on some “statistic”.
    This is administrative Scientology and this branch of Scientology can be used to serve purposes (individual and of a group).

    A “big thetan” would then be some guy who did something of magnitude and as Corporate Scientology was a game with some objectives, the parishioners were supposed to look up to them (I think it was never so bad as since the inception of the IAS and the yearly “Big Thetans” PR show).
    This was “political”. And still is.

    The Scientology Corporation became the beast LRH himself predicted.
    I for one think, LRH was affraid that Scientology would be abused and somehow he himself implemented stuff into it (wittingly or unwittingly plays no matter) which caused a decline of the corporation short after his passing.

    Quality is still, and always was, the most important “thing” in the religious activity called Scientology Counceling and Training.
    Even if I’d wish the corporational aspects were different, they weren’t.
    I see no reason to regret the past.
    We have both parts of Scientolgy, the yin and the yang aspects.
    Anyone can use study tech and get a conceptual grasp of both aspects.
    We can leave the corporation behind and just leave it there.
    We know the parts which didn’t work out in the long run.
    After all, the most thing LRH wanted was the proper application of the Technology so it could benefit the people.
    Everything else is past.

  12. martyrathbun09

    Gotcha. LRH took it to the letter, which spawned Miscavige who took it to a whole new level. Will explain in next book.

  13. Now Marty we really have to get back to that point earlier wherein you asserted that DM was the Who and the Why of all that is wrong and I suggested that LRH had a lot to do with it. You appear to be moving in exactly the direction I was thinking of – LRH somehow left the door open for DM and his psychosis and the Why is in LRH’s park. If you carry on in this direction I might even put you back on my xmas card list.

  14. Loki, I believe that you will find that the early work LRH did in Scientology is the upper end of the bridge. The lower bridge is the work done later to make the upper bridge approachable on a gradient.

  15. I would say that the upper bridge gives 1000 times the case gain of the grades but only if the grades are fully done. The purpose of the grades is to sufficiently key out the major buttons that block progress on the upper levels.

  16. Dani Lemberger

    This article is of much interest and raises important issues. Yet, I do not see the points you present as contradictions in Ron’s thinking or Ron deviating from “simplicity” to complexity or from “quality of theta” to some lust for power.
    Clearly, the object of auditing is to enable the preclear to “simplify” himself by ridding him of additives. That’s auditing. Conditions exist in the physical universe, are laws of nature. The Condition of Power has nothing to do with money or MEST. If you are a great musician, you can be poor but in Power as a musician. If many people read Marty’s blog and are influenced by it, then Marty is in Power tough possibly penniless.
    We live in a society were leaders exist and are essential, and Ron with wit and cynicism describes how a “Power” should act and those near a power should behave. I think Ron saying, “an upstat can get away with murder” (inaccurate quote, late at night in Israel) is a metaphor, not to be taken literally.
    DM is a great example of someone not applying Power correctly. Most of us on this blog have been serving him with loyalty and hard work, yet he’s lost us and we’re in a condition of Enemy now. We’re trying to destroy him, he’s doing the same. Just proves he’s an idiot, doesn’t understand basics. But it does not disprove Ron.
    If we want to bring freedom, immortality, hightened awareness to Mankind we must audit the millions. For this we need MEST, money, organizations. At least enough to train auditors and feed them. So finances, leadership, hierarchy become inevitable. Ron realized this and developed some tech in this area too. Apparently, insufficient or lacking, see the tyranny destroying the Church.
    The spiritual tech of Ron is invaluable and unique and far superior to any other practice, witness the steady expansion of auditors and groups practising freely.

  17. I’m open to your explanations.
    Lass es rüberwachsen (it’s german for: let it grow over here [in this case the book]).

  18. “somehow he himself implemented stuff into it (wittingly or unwittingly plays no matter) which caused a decline of the corporation short after his passing. ”
    I observed that when LRH was off the lines things went crazy. He had a set of rules for everyone else but he was free to break the rules.
    I think he intentionally created a framework in the CofS that would hold the organizations together with a very rigid adherence to the tech exactly as he wrote it until he returned. Unfortunately he went AWOL and a little ex SS officer was left in command too long. I think he underestimated the amount of charge restimulated in the between lives setup and fell foul of it.

  19. My view is you need go no further that listening to Phil’s videos. He states it all.

    Powers are catagorically stated in Yogic texts, particularly the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali ( good commentary by Swami Prabhavananda), to be a result of practice and not the goal.

    When power is the goal, spiritual corruption follows in it’s wake. Because in the hands of the unwise they become destructive owing to the unenlightened ego still commanding the intellect. Most spiritual masters worth their fare caution students about spiritual powers.

    It is also my opinion, that when Ron researched the OT levels and fancied himself the only man to brave the wall of fire, he placed upon himself the burden of being the “only one” to free man from eternal damnation. Not unlike Jehovas Witnesses, Rev. Moon, Jim Jones, Marx etc.

    It was at this point that force became neccessary to put down the opposition to the “only hope for man.”

    If you were walking down the street and you saw a women being beat by a thug and you had the opportunity to render the man unconscious with force to protect the women, any decent person would not hesitate to act. And that action is a legitimate use of force.

    With Scientology, the enemy is learned about from Ron’s personal “recall” and legal troubles. It is subjective and relies upon trusting students to agree that without him our planet is “dooooooomed!!!”

    This is when force became justified. When harming men, women and children became a Scientology jihad to protect the “only hope for man”.

    The reasoning was: if we don’t stop you or destroy you utterly, humanity will suffer. And just like the justified force to protect that women from the thug, self deluded, indoctrinated Sea Org, GO, OSA and Scientology blows to the enemy felt the same justification.

    Hitler was acting for the greatest good. He fancied himself a divine gardener pruning the diseased weeds from a human super race.
    He felt his force totally justified.

    When spiritual power supplanted free happy people in Scientology, that was the point in time for Scientology’s downward spiral.

    And you can pinpoint that time when Ron fancied himself savior of the universe against his fancied cosmic evil which then gave justification of force against the enemy.

  20. Damn Marty you are gutsy. This attitude of yours I highly admire. You come out and say what’s on your mind and how you see reality. Blah. There. Take it or leave it. Thank you for that!

    I say gutsy because considering the opposition you received for your efforts towards Integration, Evolution and Transcendence this post may
    set a new record. Those SC fundamentalist will see the logic here and end up taking things out of context and say you are opposing LRH. I am sure that you have the ability to predict such and despite of that you still went through with your message. You got spunk.

    The depths of truth you just spoke amaze me. Partly because it is so spot on and partly because where I’m at really resonates with this message.

    There is this phenomena I am increasingly aware of recently when people work based on incorrect assumptions. The result is a condition of “all over the place -ness”. Such assumption causes people to go around in circles and create over bloated theories which require lots of exceptions. The deeper the incorrect assumption (meaning the more things depend on it) the more complex the theory built upon will be.

    A great example to me is the current state of quantum physics. The theory is thought of as so complex and mind bending that if you claim you understand it you will be viewed by scientists as someone who isn’t getting it. Now what kind of a fucked up paradox is that?
    After OT IV now I am convinced that this is because they are working the theory based on a few false assumptions. I am convinced that when these false assumptions are spotted the resulting theory will collapse into a finite and understandable and in comparison very simple theory. So simple in fact that I dare to say it could be taught in elementary school.

    Whenever people miss the real why’s the result is all over the place -ness. LRH talks about this well in the Data Evaluator’s course (I believe) and says that when we are looking for the reason why a stat is crashing it’s not a bunch of intricate little details that needs to be worked out but instead one or more obvious ‘big’ things that we have missed. He mentions an example of people trying to doctor up the stats of book sales, by promoting more, re-editing the book, tuning promotion tactics etc, but the book sales are still crashing. Until one day they find out that the book store is always closed when the crowd is present due to a recent change in operating hours. In other words you can change/tune all you want when no one is there to take the money from the buyers and hand them books. (This is all paraphrased but I’m sure those who want to get the idea)

    It seems to me that you have really tapped on something or some things LRH have missed. Indeed I think it is after clear. Yes the stuff works. (upper levels) Just like quantum physics works to a certain degree. (it can be used to explain and calculate certain phenomena with great accuracy but with other’s you fall on your face)

    The fact that something works does not mean that we know all the details. Just like when someone is driving a car doesn’t mean they know how the engine works.

    It seems like that the state of clear as stated in Dianetics was never delivered. So LRH had to go further researching. So he discovered many aspects of how to get even higher through his own subjective reality. I believe that one of the things missing is that he did not distill these materials as to filter out his own subjective perception to unearth the real underlying truths. For instance on OT III you are given a story but as it turns out no one believes that story. None that I’ve spoken to that is. My take on this whole upper level stuff is this:

    Clear doesn’t mean clear as stated in Dianetics but instead it means clear enough to proceed further.
    Up to clear you handle the main identity of the individual. The “I” that is most obviously there to be handled.
    After that you get into what I came to call de-fragmentation. (Yes just like what you do to a hard drive. Recommend looking it up on wiki if need be)
    To me it seems that the ‘mind’ can and does get fragmented and these fragments are handled by the mind as entities of their own. They can have limited thinking powers. They can originate things towards us (the main identity) and thereby influence us.
    I hate to have to put it this way but if I want to use an already existing terminology then I believe that we all suffer from Multiple Personality Disorder (now knowns as Dissociative Identity Disorder). But not in a way as to have two dominant personalities which our mind acts as. Instead we have a main personality and a bunch of little fragments which were created due to lies, outside influence, traumas and whatnot.
    Disorder is a strong word I know. Very evaluative also. That is why I call I prefer to call this condition we have fragmented identity.
    To me it seems that going clear would involve having to handle these fragmented entities also by bringing them back home. That is to make them be part of a whole and integral part of the “I” (the main identity) by spotting the lie that keeps them separate.

    I think LRH managed to bring many truths to us but via his own subjective reality which does not resonate well with everyone. This fragmentation nature of the mind was real to him through his own imagination.

    Why and how he didn’t distill this into a more general and ‘realistic’ form doesn’t even matter. What matters is that he managed to get us to open our eyes.

    I believe we all have the right to ask ‘whys’ in our search for deeper truths. You are certainly doing a great job of digging Marty.

    Thank you for your research and the COGs you made me have!

  21. Phil Bruemmer

    “It fairly makes one wonder whether somewhere along the line Scientology lost sight of its own purpose and the quality of life it was created to restore.”
    I don’t think one need wonder about this.
    We can see the (overt) products.

  22. gretchen dewire

    Marty, very “powerful” post.It seems that scientology has descended from theta to mest at an alarming rate of speed lately.I always saw scientology as a way of burning karma if you will, and with that comes freedom.Isnt that what we are doing here? What is all this other garbage? Mabe just another trap for us to have to dig ourselves out of. Enough already.

  23. I think the biggest problem of Hubbard and the Co$ was, like Otto Roos said, that he did not avail himself of his own technology. Thus he started going down tone, and his view point became more and more reactive.

  24. Marty,

    Please stop asking people to THINK… That is our job… Well actually we’ve found it much easier to just tell everyone what to think.

    Why can’t you just leave us alone to wallow in our self proclaimed power?

    Seriously man… What is your game exactly? You’re making it hard for us big beings to stay powerful! 😡

    Yours pleadingly,

    The big beings

  25. Or in the middle?


  26. I cannot discuss this away. Thus it looks like Scientology is trying to enslave mankind. Take over control of this planet and call it „freedom“. The end product of a „cleared planet“ would be an elite group being in control over planet earth. But we do not need just another group trying. We already have other groups of those. Maybe it looks like different groups. But could also be, that in fact it is one group. How would Scientology fit into it? By my understanding Scientology did not want to be in control over planet earth. Now the picture is different. But if Scientology is another group or just look like another group can be questioned. My guess is, that Scientology is part of a bigger effort and a bigger picture. I do not have good answers to resolve it. But currently I am having a close look at time, manipulation of time, changing time tracks, 4th physical universe dimension and the relation of space and time.

  27. I agree with you….I think Ron starting believing his own science fiction and his case became “our” case…..He was going crazy and because he felt he was so “above” us little beings we had to audit all the BS that became the entire galaxies “case”…..It sure does explain why he was in hiding and paranoid at the end of his life. In away I have compassion for him…it must have been a pretty dreadful for him in his last years.

  28. I wonder if that attitude was embedded in the OT levels. It’s a sick attitude.
    “Get rid of the little beings”.
    I was looking at “WISDOM AS AN AUDITOR” lecture 28 April 1964, today, and it rings somewhat with this idea of severing ARC:

    EXCERPT “You always get an explosion on cutting a theta line.
    Guy is trying to give some truth, something like that or it even gets worse than that, don’t you see?
    You’re trying to wish somebody a happy birthday or something like that, don’t you see, and somebody villainously stops the card, you see?”

    EXCERPT IN CONTEXT (Including a note on Power):
    “I want to say a couple of words about Australia. Australia is only in one difficulty: it has yet to take any instructions or orders concerning its status or activities. I’ve just gone through three days of the rock crusher just trying to get one simple instruction through to Australia. Just that, see?
    And I finally landed and got it through and now I’m – was unstabilized the following day. I don’t know whether it got through or not. If I feel a little bit abstracted or if I look a little bit that way, you’ll know why. I don’t know, I think it’s been two or three thousand words on the telex have been typed, some of it sent, some of it not sent.
    You see, everything sent to the Australian office is picked up by the Australian government, you see, and used at its – ha! – inquiry.
    Now, I wanted to gen you in on this inquiry and by the time this information gets around anyplace it will already have happened, so it’s perfectly all right to tell you.
    But when the opposition decides to cut a theta line, they should be advised that when you try to cut a theta line it explodes. Sooner or later it will explode. That you can be absolutely confident of with regard to all such villainous and vicious activities.
    I have seen this happen time and time and time again. You always get an explosion on cutting a theta line.
    Guy is trying to give some truth, something like that or it even gets worse than that, don’t you see?
    You’re trying to wish somebody a happy birthday or something like that, don’t you see, and somebody villainously stops the card, you see?
    Now, they’ve done something there, see? And the doingness of that type of thing will all of a sudden catch up with them in some mysterious and fantastic fashion. It’s very – it’s not really metaphysical. You can see why; because the only power there is, is on a theta line.
    All other power is derived from cutting theta lines. The secret of power is just that. Power is truth. You can extend untruth in a certain direction and derive power from it for a certain time, but you’re only deriving power from the amount of truth in the situation. This is why, in a war, a government can engage in war and talk to its citizens about how they must engage in war against this other power and that sort of thing. But they are at that – and you notice every war is followed by, usually, an overthrow of the
    government and a disillusionment of the people. We want to know why. Well, actually, there weren’t that many reasons to go to war and the line they are cutting there is simply the line of friendliness and decencynfrom people to people, see?
    So somebody jumps across this line, you see, and cuts it up and then when the war is all over everybody sits down and says, “I’m not mad at the Sloveronians. Why were we fighting the Sloveronians?” You hear this after every war, you see?
    You also have an overthrow of the existing regime. No regime really ever lasts through a war and they never notice this. It always emerges on the different side of it – some other government. It’s the most remarkable phenomenon you ever cared to see. It’s obscured by the fact that the state is still there or somebody may be still king, but there will be a different government sitting there – entirely different.
    What have they done? They have cut the natural ARC of being to being for their own ends and it blew them up. Now, the violence of the war is a temporary action, but this other thing carries it on for a very,
    very long time. That’s the long continuing action. Those are the wounds that have to heal.

  29. martyrathbun09

    Well, don’t make the same mistake and stigmatize and thus consider others so inferior.

  30. I’d say I F/N’d over the article but that’s a quality that would have to be verified by the squirrel quantity of 3 swings, thus falsely making quantity senior to quality at the most basic level of auditing in CoS, Inc.

  31. martyrathbun09

    You asserted, ‘Clearly, the object of auditing is to enable the preclear to “simplify” himself by ridding him of additives.’ I would add, until additives are added. And that is the entire thrust of the post. I am not pointing out contradictions. I am pointing out an evolution.

  32. martyrathbun09

    I wouldn’t, unless you audit toward release instead of to ability. See

  33. BriefMomentInTime

    Considering the current state of affairs here on Earth, its almost over anyway….. nothing much left, other than us rocks, like on Easter Island.

  34. The Buddha Gotama was silent on the issue of the spirit.
    Theoretical discussions were not encouraged.
    This was done to keep monks on the Path.
    I will follow this policy.
    George M. White

  35. “Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’………………?” The first time I did my first Scientology drill OT-TRO over 40 years ago it was such things as “quantities” that quieted and dissolved away and I was happy with that as both Scientology and myself seemed to have successfully addressed me as “quality”.

    Thus later as Hubbard sometimes addressed spiritual beings as having a quantity or lack of quantity that needed to be handled, that seemed odd to me almost like that was a marketing thing. Sort of like getting sold on putting a V8 engine in your car rather than the 6 cylinder. And when Hubbard later talked about big beings and small beings – that never made much sense to me. I have noticed however in my life that some beings, especially those who have had auditing which includes myself, were more free to operate with less quantitative stuff interfering with them. So I like the way Hubbard looked at things in the earlier years of Dianetics and Scientology.

  36. BriefMomentInTime

    Seems to me it was stated in tech (possibly a SHSBC tape) that a floating needle should ‘curl” on both ends – would that not mean at least 3 swings.
    Its been 25 years, but I do recall that piece of datum, I wish I had the reference but I do not, so take it for what its worth.

  37. My only question is:
    “Say what??”

  38. Same question I asked Schorsch


    Thanks Marty for pointing out a few factors that have been bugging me for years if not decades. This afternoon I blew down after reading this commentary.

    There was a point where all of this stuff, Dianetics and
    Scientology, went awry. It’s my foregone conclusion that you have nailed it regards the quantity versus quality evaluation of the subject at hand. Phil Spickler also broached this subject area in one or more of his videos.

    Thank you from the depths of my soul. This has been one of the most enlightening posts in your current career, IMHO.

  40. Gallagher wrote this…..

  41. Can’t let this comment pass without a rebuttal: either you were never did the upper levels, or, if you did, you weren’t properly set up for them.

    There is enormous gain to be had from these levels. But only if you are ready for them.

    I agree with Marty’s conclusions, both in his article and his response to you. Stigmatization of others as inferior or for any other reason is not OK either from an ethical or practical perspective. It does not help, period.

    It should be pointed out, though, that the upper levels I did were not about “increasing ability” per se, but about releasing even more negative charge. OT3 EP “Freedom from overwhelm” – does not sound like a massive ability gain, it sounds like a rather obvious negative gain to me.

    Other levels like NOTS state an ability gain, subject to differing interpretations, some way off the mark, but anyone who has done that level knows it’s a lot more about converting entheta to theta than it is about superhuman abilities.

    When I stop & think about it, the common denominator of ALL the levels I’ve done (and audited), lower, middle, upper is that they convert entheta to theta. That is the simplicity of the matter.

    Actually I feel kind of sorry for people who can dismiss it all with “Ron was going crazy”, writing sci fi, messing with our heads, etc. I wish they could all be properly set up for some of these levels so they could experience what really goes on, the charge released, the immense blows of negative energies and the incredible peace of mind that follows, that occur on these levels.

    The question is NOT, “does it read like sci fi”, or does it offend our 21st Century sensibilities, or does it fly in the face of what passes for “thoughtful analysis” in the pop psychology world.

    The question is, “does it work to produce happier, freer, more responsible beings?” Not, “is it palatable to the agreement patterns of the current culture”.

  42. martyrathbun09

    I agree when you say, ‘The question is, “does it work to produce happier, freer, more responsible beings?”’

  43. LOVE your defrag analogy – best I’ve ever heard on the subject!!!

    I just defragged 3 of my hard drives over the past few days, and believe me, they are operating much more rapidly and smoothly!

    I wish many others could have similar gains to my 3 “C” drives.

  44. Tony DePhillips summary of KSW 1 by LRH dated 7 Feb. 1965

    In the first paragraph Lrh is saying that By neglecting this PL it has cost the organization millions of dollars and major hardship. Quickie grades and denied gains to thousands of cases. It is everyone’s business to enforce it.

    Second section: LRH says it was true in 1965and he is now reissuing it in 1980. It will always be true. It is to prevent quickied grade chart actions and anything that would prevent the viability of Scientology.

    LRH says that “we have some time since passed the point of achieving uniformly workable technology.” so his emphasis is on getting it applied.

    “The only thing you can be upbraided for by students or pcs is “no results”. Trouble spots occur only where there are “no results”. Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are “no results” or “bad results”.

    His main emphasis is that if the tech is applied correctly then Scientology will succeed.

    The way per LRH to get the technology applied correctly is by applying these ten points:

    1. Having the correct technology
    2.Knowing the technology
    3.Knowing it is correct
    4.Teaching correctly the correct technology
    5.Applying the technology
    6.Seeing that the technology is correctly applied
    7.Hammering out of existence incorrect technology
    8.Knocking out incorrect applications.
    9.Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology
    10.Closing the door on incorrect application.

    He then describes how the points 1-6 are done or are being done pretty well.

    7-10 are the weak areas.
    He then lists reasons why 7-10 are not done good enough.
    a. A weak certainty that the tech works
    b. The not too bright have a bad button on self importance
    c. Low IQ shuts the individual off from the fruits of observation
    d. Service Facs make people make things wrong. Even good things.
    e. The bank seeks to knock out the good and perpetuate the bad.

    He then says that he used to have the idea that the group could evolve truth, but that he gave up on that idea. And that he only had less than twenty suggestions that had long-run value and NONE were major or basic.

    Then he goes into how he had thousands of suggestions and writings that if they were acted on would have destroyed all of the work. His conclusion is that he had about 20 good ideas compared with thousands of horrible ideas and that is the ratio he can expect from Man and the proof is what popularity does endorse, such as degraded novels and democracy has given us inflation and income tax.

    He then states that the technology was not discovered by a group. So therefore one can assume that group efforts can not successfully alter it.

    He says that he did have some contributions and he appreciated them. Discovery contributions were not part of the broad picture.

    He then says we won’t speculate on how he rose above the bank.

    The group would have wiped out Scientology with new ideas.

    Man never before evolved a workable mental technology. He did develop vicious tech. Pyschiatry, psychology, shock treatment, duress, punishment etc.

    He then states he never failed in 7-10. Also whenever 7-10 relaxed, organizations failed. And gives some examples of failings.

    He then states:
    “The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank.”

    “Thetans without banks have different responses”.

    “They (the bank dominated group) (My note) agree then only on bank principles.”

    “Person to person the bank is identical”

    “So constructive ideas are individual and seldom get broad agreement in a human group.”

    “An individual must rise above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group to get anything decent done.”

    Basically bank agreement is what has made Earth a hell. Decent things on the planet come from individual actions that have somehow gotten past the group idea. He notes how Scientology is attacked by “public opinion” yet there is no more ethical group on the planet.

    His conclusion is that if you don’t do 7-10 then you are working for the bank-dominated mob. For it will surely:
    A.) introduce incorrect technology and swear by it.
    B.) apply technology as incorrectly as possible.
    C.)encourage incorrect aplication

    “It’s the bank that says the group is all and the individual is nothing. It’s the bank that says we must fail.”

    He then gives several examples of not applying 7-10 and how they should have been handled.

    He then describes squirreling “(going off into weird practices or altering Scientology)”. It comes from non-comprehension. Then he basically says that you need to do whatever it takes to make sure students get it.

    Then he says:
    “When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe–never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast.”

    “If they enrolled, they’re aboard; and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us-win or die in the attempt.”

    “Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists.”

    “The proper instructional attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.””

    That included with the economics of the situation and you see wht cross we have to bear.

    It will get better as we do the right things. 1-10.

    “ So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It’s our possible failure to retain and practice the technology.”

    “We’re not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn’t cute or something to do for lack of something better.”

    “ The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.”

    “This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.”

    End of summary.

    Start of commentary.

    After summarizing, the main thing I saw was to apply the tech correctly. How does one determine if the tech is being applied correctly? My answer is that people win from it.
    If that is true then you know the current “church” of Scientology is NOT applying the tech very standard and so therefore is squirreling to a large degree. If the main “authorized” church of Scientology is a squirrel group and headed up by an SP, what should be done. Per KSW the tech should be applied correctly. If you cannot handle the “church” from within, this would drive you outside of the church to handle the situation.
    Once going outside of the “church” an individual would no longer have all the lines and terminals available inside of the “church”. So a need to re-establish would be necessary. The “church” then makes wrong the individual who is bypassing their out-tech squirreling by saying that those outside are now “squirreling.” Thus one needs to know for themselves how to determine if people are correctly applying the tech. The people are happy and winning or at least getting better in their own estimation. Unless some better definition can be determined?

  45. It was made abundantly clear in Science of Survival, that beings vary all over the map in terms of “theta endowment”.

    With “equality” being such a huge button in the current culture, it may offend some to assert that some beings have a larger theta endowment than others.

    But the question again is, is it true or not – regardless of palatability.

    I don’t see how anyone who has audited dozens of people could fail to appreciate this concept of theta endowment. It’s a fact – some beings are “larger” than others. Give yourself enough hours in the chair, and you can SEE it.

    This has nothing to do with goodness or badness.

    There is nothing – zero – in this fact that calls for, or justifies, any sort of negative judgment, any sort of put down. To use a sports analog, everyone varies in their VO2 max, which is a measure of how much oxygen can be transported to the muscles, sort of like a carburetor. Some have larger ones, others smaller, most of us fall in between. A higher VO2 max correlates to better athletic performance. It is a fact of life. But I’ve never heard anyone using it as a way to put others down, or make less of someone. That’s idiotic. But it is a fact. Not everyone can run 5 minute miles.

    As with so many other precepts that are capable of distortion and misapplication, whether by LRH or anyone else, it’s important not to toss the baby out with the bathwater, and wind up denying reality like so much of our PC (politically correct) culture does today.

  46. I like your reply, Publius.

  47. The idea of less is more, is sort of expressed in these words from the bible.

    Be still and know I am God.


    With God all things are possible.


  48. “DM is a great example of someone not applying Power correctly.”
    Yeah. 100%

  49. Thanks for another deeply considered article, and especially for the LRH quote from 1954 – it was new to me, for one.

    When LRH first spoke about a static in 1951, he emphasised that it did not have size or any other quantity. This is reflected in the definition in Axiom 1. He also said that zero and infinity are both statics, but they differ in sign – just as +2 differs from -2. In mathematics, both zero and infinity have the property that they remain themselves when multiplied by another number; this is because they are dimensionless, not quantities.

    Every thetan is basically a static, and many of us have some experience of what native state feels like. But I’d be so bold as to suggest that no-one reading this comment is sitting in native state right at this moment. A thetan who identifies himself as “me” is already a bit less than a static. He’s even less of a static when he faces other terminals whom he considers “not me”. And this introduces the concept of size or quantity, which of course are just considerations that the thetan has made and can unmake. Size is measured by comparison to a space or an object, in other words it is only meaningful in the context of a particular universe. Right now my size in the MEST universe doesn’t extend far beyond my body and the computer screen but in other universes I could be larger, smaller or dimensionless.

    If LRH really meant in 1967 that thetans were inherently unequal and could never change their size, he would have been contradicting his earlier insights. But in Technique 80 and the PDC he showed how a thetan could expand their space within the MEST universe – in other words, become bigger and have more potential to generate MEST energy if that was what they wanted to do. And he revisited this idea again in the NOTs materials.

  50. I have absolutley no idea as to what LRHs plans for his future were.
    Nor do I know in what shape he was when he passed away. The PR from his furneal is just that, PR.
    Nothing in writing I could rely on. No facts, just opinions or rumors.

  51. I second that.

  52. Marty thanks for these beautiful and elegantly worded insights. I believe this is your best post, since I started reading your blog.

    What you express is very helpful for me to understand how Scientology evolved, and what the dichotomy you’re dealing with is.

    I can relate to the emphasis on quality and simplicity. In matters of the soul, my own experience is that quality is the guiding light, always.

    There is a feeling to be felt in the heart, and to feel a person must be silent. The voice within the soul whispers, it does not shout. There is a stillness to be experienced within, and to experience it requires abandonment, embrace.

    To remove the additives, the complexities that you speak of, requires to let go. And to let go is not an innate skill, it is an ability that needs to be acquired. And to become able to truly let go requires wisdom. And to gain this wisdom requires looking within for answers, rather than on the outside, and surrendering to life.

    When we do that, we connect with our deepest self, and with what unites all of mankind.

    And yes, I fully agree that stigmatizing anyone for any reason– including those who see as our enemies—is ultimately futile and helps neither us nor them, as difficult as this may be to accept when one has been hurt.

    And yes I like that question: ““Does it work to produce happier, freer, more responsible beings?”’ That is such a healthy way to get a clear assessment? I would only add one word: “kinder” or “more compassionate”

    Thank you for this inspiring post.

  53. Compare KSW to this….

    “Just because you know a lot of these things puts a responsibility on you, but just because you know Scientology is no reason or license to stop living. You should be able to live much more fully. But you feel very free to use or not use exactly what you know, to use it as you think it ought to be used, to create the effect you want to create or just to create a random effect. That’s a wide license, isn’t it? The material is yours. Go ahead and take it.”

    L. Ron Hubbard
    550606 The Game Called Man
    Anatomy of the Spirit of Man Congress

  54. Globetrotter

    Great thoughts Marty, thanks.

    Here’s my $0.02:

    On the top of the tone scale, there is static (quality). On the bottom, there is MEST (quantity). Games, that make life interesting are between the two. Static/quality only = boring. MEST/quantity only = dead. In the middle: quality + quantity = the possibility of games.

    Just a thought (it may be wrong): if LRH was done with his research of the static, the qualities of it and felt like that was all described in his work, isn’t it possible that he just got bored spiritually and wanted a new game? One that required all components of one (freedoms, barriers, purposes)?

    It seems to me that Dn/Scn started off as a “path” or whatever toward a static, postulated quality (clear), but later it became a game with quantities, and of course, enemies (every game needs those).

    Of course a thetan can’t be small of big because it isn’t MEST. But I can definitely see big differences in the sphere of influence of beings around me. My understanding of the big being/small being stuff is that it is a QUANTITY trying to describe the reach, or influence of a thetan, or in other words, his willingness and ability to play a game. And I think that’s a very spiritual QUALITY.

  55. Globetrotter

    Just an additional thought:

    I think what is wrong with Scientology in its current state is that it takes itself way too seriously. It is downtone, it is in enforcement mode, using force and trying to create an impact on a world that doesn’t want to be impacted by it based on what they see it is doing. It has become a reactive piece of MEST that thinks it is fighting for spiritual freedom.

  56. To me, “The ability to maintain a position in space” is the correct definition simply because one needs to be able to maintain one’s position in space to generate any kind of power in the first place!

    The other thing that bugs me is how in scientology, spiritual enlightenment and abilities gained are always juxtaposed as needing to be achieved “before mankind destroys itself”.

    Enough with this “race against time” shit – you’re fucking immortal! Nothing that didn’t “do you in” in past lifetimes is going to be your undoing now just because ‘this time” you know about scientology.

    The real focus of our activities should be oriented toward living a good life and helping others as we ourselves evolve spiritually. No pressure – just do it..

    Only in this way – and not by creating enemies and artificial barriers will we win.

  57. Thanks Marty for another great article, which assist me in the process of clearing my awareness from “weeds”, planted during my involvement with the church.

  58. Plubius, charge blowing did not start with Scientology and Dianetics. It is a myth and falsehood that erasure or neutralization of mental or physical mass is only available in processes developed by Ron. He just talked about it and developed a psychological therapy with a past life twist.

    One could make a case (not that we want to make a case… Ha ha 🙂 that constantly looking into one’s memory or time track for answers can create mass as memories have no ending.

    Memory is almost infinite. Pain and sorrow goes on and on in one’s memory as a result of incarnate existence. Birth old age death, birth old age death, loss of loved ones, disease etc etc. Engrams are almost with every life. Millions and millions of memories.

    At some point the entire essence of mind is absolutely and fully comprehended with no need to “go back in time” to understand existence.

    This is not just keyed out, because some level Ron says you have to do, is absolutely essential to being liberated from the body and mind prison.

    Scientology is good at taking a person from unawareness of soul to awareness of soul. From living at effect to understanding there is a mechanics to the laws of life. But it does not understand some of the higher laws. In my view of course.

    At some point the ride is solo. And the gains infinitely more qualitative and quantitative. With the correct method and procedures diligently practiced.

    When desolution of mind can be done at will, anytime, anywhere, in any circumstance, then the perception of immortal joyous existence is unspeakably powerful.

    Learning how to erase mental mass is only the beginning. Knowing how to desolve the entire mind and the entire material universe into it’s essential nature of pure consciousness is far beyond erasure of individual incidents.

    When I hear,” we are the custodians of erasure or we are the only true knowers of the mechanics of mind”, I just have to bite my tongue and be patient.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Re immortality, I once posted an LRH reference wherein he noted that hypnotism or implanting is grounded in convincing a theta he must do the one thing he cannot help but do, survive.

  60. Oh Marty,
    are you slaughtering them holy cows again 😉

    Scientology from the 1950s is so different from some LRH texts from the Sea org era that one should not call both Scientology. The early attitude put ARC and abilities and truth first. Remember the top of the chart of attitudes “the future is endlessly beautiful” ?

    In the late 1960s this had turned to “toughness is high on the scale” (retranslated from German to English, name and date of reference unknown).

    And some concepts from the Responsibility of Leaders Policy are definitely low on the scale. However, a short glance at the Chart of Human Evaluation in the Self Analysis book reveals that people using violence and threats have a reduced survival potential.

    When it comes to lust for power, I can hardly imagine a more insidious drug. Power promises status, admiration from others, control and survival – as many current street drugs do. But all too often the end results are fatal.

  61. LOL good one, Thanks!

  62. Right Marty,

    That makes total sense on hypnotism. Gets the “can’t have/must have” thing workin’.

    The funny one that comes to mind for me is from 8-8008 where LRH is talking about logic and states, “At its best, logic is rationalism, for all logic is based upon the somewhat idiotic circumstance that a being that is immortal is trying to survive.”

    Hey Marty, we have to survive, right??? “Look, I’m telling you it’s bad over there. No, no – look at me, thaaat’s riiiight… I’m just being rational here, ok? Stick with me, kid and you’ll be OK…”

  63. Scientology has been used to do both.
    “Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’ that lost sight of their own very nature by introduction of the confusion of ‘quantity’ into the equation?”
    —-the use of the philosophy and auditing techniques and procedures works to increase the “qualities” as the end result.
    —from book The Phoenix Lectures – “A primary goal of processing in Scientology is to bring an individual into such thorough communication with the physical universe that he can regain the power and the ability of his own postulates. We discover an individual in an inverted state — that is to say, his considerations have now less value than the wall in front of him. And in processing, for example, in Opening Procedure 8C, we put him into sufficient communication with the wall that’s there in front of him — that he can then see that there is a wall in front of him. And at that exact point he has graduated upstairs, you might say, to a cognition of what his postulates have created. He can go on from there and can graduate up to where his considerations again have precedence over mechanics.
    The mechanics are so much in his road, they are such observable barriers, that he has become unacquainted with them.”

    Your second question was “or does Scientology address beings as ‘quantities’ that need to have some quantity added to them to become sufficiently big and powerful?” Presently this is what the organized group does. A “quantity” is the only thing which can be measured, made into a statistic, product officer’d and enforced. Thus it seems the only current product worked for.

    If one did make it to the point of getting control over his postulates then that person is immediately pushed into the agreed upon mechanics and as a result loses his gains in “quality” either immediately or rather soon. And then we see the “mechanics” or a “quantity” now becoming an observable barrier. We can observe it. Most public still on the treadmill now find their actual awareness ability below even that needed to observe the obstacle or the mechanics.

    That too was commented upon in the same book:
    “But unless you get him over his blindness, his unreality about something he’s already agreed to, he is working against himself – he’s fighting his own agreements.” These concepts apply to each and every one of us – today, yesterday and tomorrow.

    To strive to increase the Spirit of Quality we must be willing to find the true and workable answers. We should keep in mind, from the same Phoenix Lectures book – “Scientology is the science of knowing how to know answers.” (this definition has what we’re trying to know – answers added.) Answers that are actually valid will open the door to whatever we were seeking to know.

    The upper aspirations of life are, in my opinion, all in the “quality” area. The quantity area, requiring something that can be measured, will always be in the area of agreement – the physical universe.

    This is my viewpoint, which may differ from that of others – and that is ok, as we all have our own viewpoint in this game. Still more to know in the game of living life; and the mud-ball continues to spin and move through space.

  64. Damn typos. “Those SC fundamentalist will NOT see the logic here and end up taking things out of context and say you are opposing LRH.” Is what I meant.

  65. This is an excellent article Marty. Perhaps the best yet, which covers a lot of strong articles. Thank you. I do have a question about something relative to it. Namely, how is it that individuals that did/do achieve a state of ‘clear’, nonetheless fall into the switch from freedom orientation to power orientation?

    As you know, cognitive dissonance is a frequent accusation leveled against scientologists. And it would seem to be somewhat empirically justifiable (in some individuals/situations). My question is: Do you think there is an inherent (though undisclosed) ‘vulnerability’ associated with the process of ‘going clear’ that results in a lessening of ones normal critical thinking skills?

    In other words, does the shift of ones attention away from the early ‘quality’ seeking objectives of scientology to the later ‘power’ seeking objectives result in a hidden aberration of its own?

    To wit: I have known individuals that were quite courteous, polite and or otherwise decent socially kind people as pre-clears, that became obnoxious militant and generally arrogant ‘after’ they became clear and started up the bridge. (as dedicated scientologists).

    It seems to me perhaps the ‘intention’ of the seeker defines the mental and emotional faculties they have available to themselves in their pursuit? In other words, in the first case it is the Thetan/Spirit ‘engaged’ in the pursuit of spiritual/human qualities, whilst in the later case it is the ‘Ego’ that is engaged in the pursuit of spiritual/human powers. Thus does (or can) being ‘clear’ inadvertently accommodate this phenomena of being transformed into a social um, well, egomaniac? (lacking a pre-awareness of it’s impending calling).

    I hope you answer this post but understand if you don’t.

    Thanks again for the article. It is excellent.

  66. PS: for a nice example, I think of the Squirrel Buster people. I don’t know their names, but I can easily imagine them as being basically decent people before they became ‘clear’ in scientology. And look at them now (or then) at your place in Texas wearing cameras on their heads, acting like complete fools & idiots and making complete asses of themselves.

    How could someone that is spiritually ‘clear’, I wonder, act like that? Let alone, god forbid, they are (self defined) actually OT’s.

    What happened to them to accommodate that very sad transformation? Whatever it was, it happened in process of the ‘clearing’ of their minds. I know, I know, only the ‘reactive mind’ gets cleared, but, well……

    From the beauty of spirit-seeking qualities, to the ugliness of ego-seeking power……..during the ‘clearing’ of ones (reactive) mind?


    ps; I don’t have the stats but I would wager on average a ‘clear’ on staff scientologist spent years in the ‘church’ before they blew, and on average an OT spent twice or three times the number of years before they blew.

    Where was the ‘clear’ part of their mind during all those years? Where was the ‘clear’ part of your mind during all those years?

  67. I know I am paraphrasing here but it seems like you are heading in this direction:

    Power is relative. The sudden feel of power after some processes can create the illusion of getting something you did not have when you woke up that day. The so called positive gain processes are still just removing case. (IMO) Except when doing these we are focused on the abilities to be had as opposed to the harmony of mental healing and enlightenment.

    This hunger for power and the money motivation shift of LRH must be right around when SC got that steroid shot into the Yang side of its but. It communicates (to me) a level of frustration and desperation.
    Does anyone know (personally not from hearsay) how did LRH handle personally the fact that Dianetics was not the final answer after all?

    The way I see it is that people just simply have unlocked potential. As the individual is aided (climbing the bridge) to remove the lies (discrepancies) from their subjective reality their reality will approach the objective reality closer and closer. With each step a bit of their true potential is unleashed. How you view the removal of lies is a subjective choice. At first LRH seemed to view these objectively for what they are: getting things out of the way of the being. Then later on zoomed in on the ability to be had instead, but in reality you still are just removing lies from one’s subjective reality. (at least according to my reality and opinion)

    The subjective reality is merely a collection of copies (fragments) of the objective reality. As such it will never be exactly the same as the objective reality. It can only approximate objective reality. (unlike the rest of my post these past three sentences are facts)

    To me it seems that the OT levels are the continuance of the search for getting as close to clear as possible. If it was up to me I would rename clear to be grade VI. Then OT I to grade VII. OT II to grade VIII and so forth. OT VIII would then be grade XIV.
    (The above is just to illustrate the idea and should not be take too literally. After all the Ls,Super Power and all other stuff would have to be crammed in there also. Call me simple minded or an organize freak but I would call every damn thing just another grade.)

    Then I would do the unimaginable: I would declare the state of clear to be unobtainable. Why? Because as stated by LRH it is a FUCKING absolute! That’s why. 🙂 And thus unobtainable.

    I love this little snowball you started rolling down the mountain Marty!
    If this doesn’t cause an avalanche in SC fundamentalist circles then I don’t know what will 🙂

  68. Ralph,
    You think LRH intended to return onlines but fell afoul of the between lives area? If that were true it doesn’t bode well for the rest of us.

  69. I have used a precision 24 bit analog digital converter sampling 300 times a second to graph many floating needles and observe their characteristics. Never once have I seen the curl doing that. I did observe that curl in a particular batch of meter movements used for a while in the British Mk 5. Even if the needle did curl it would only be necessary to observe one such occurence to know that it was an F/N. I see no need to use anything but HCOB 9 May 1969 in defining an F/N.

  70. I don’t recall that quote but I’m sure you could be right. The definition of F/N that I was trained on had absolutely no reference to three swings though, which seems to be a Miscavige (mis)interpretation.

    I remember as an auditor that there really was no doubt when someone was F/Ning. I often saw the F/N start before the PC showed any signs of anything. Then there would be a cognition, good indicators (smiles, face brightening, eyes clear, relaxed affect, feeling of release of tension, happiness, etc.).

    It was the GIs (usually VGIs) and cognition that defined the moment — and those are at the core qualitative. The e-meter F/N simply was an external, objective validation.

    CoS, Inc has it bass-ackwards — denying the qualitative reality until a quantitative MEST reflection occurs.

    Hey, if anyone happens across a quote about F/Ns having a curling motion I’d be interested. I don’t think I ever saw that (or if I did, I’ve forgotten). The F/Ns I saw were simply loose, free, floating with no pattern, and were usually dial wide (once in awhile bigger, requiring TA/Tone Arm adjustment to keep the needly off the edge of the dial).

    It’s interesting stuff. I really wish someone would research the heck out of F/Ns. I am confident the phenomenon would be validated.

  71. A Who is never a Why. Also, neither LRH, nor DM can be a proper Why for anything in your life.
    A Why is something about which you must be able to be cause, something within your sphere of influence.

  72. a) The ability to maintain a position in space – 1 March 1958
    b) The amount of work which can be accomplished in a unit of time, or the amount of force which can be applied in a unit of time – 6 December 1966

    Both a and b have the same meaning to me .
    Marty you must have mis-understood words on this .

  73. I don’t see a connection between Power and Quantity. Upper level floating TAs and personal experiences where everything (i.e. Every Thing) disappears is all about Quality.


  74. Good summary. This is pretty much how I look at KSW too, Tony. I don’ see it as some egotistical, dictatorial statement by LRH although it certainly has been applied that way.
    You said: “Thus one needs to know for themselves how to determine if people are correctly applying the tech. The people are happy and winning or at least getting better in their own estimation.”
    I would like to add that this has always been true, even where the tech has been applied in a benign way. It has to be true for you. The final determination as to whether tech is IN can only be made from the opinion of those to whom it is applied. The customer is ALWAYS right. Just ask them how it was. That’s where it’s at. No PR from other sources is important.

  75. Can we pre-order yet? This one I really can’t wait for…

  76. I concur with everything Publius said above and disagree that quantity was some later additive – it’s right there in the “endowment of theta” language of DMSMH as well as in the potential value equations of Science of Survival. I also agree with Impartial English Girl that quantity and quality are not mutually exclusive. I think perhaps the key is how one looks at “power”. If power is looked at in terms of quantity of force generated, then that’s a MEST viewpoint of power. If power is looked at as the ability effortlessly as-is or create actualities by postulate, that’s a theta viewpoint of power more in alignment with Tao Te Ching and quantum mechanics. The latter theta viewpoint is how I always took LRH’s references power. The former MEST viewpoint results in something like the RCS culture. The latter can enable one to FIGURATIVELY “get away with murder” (i.e. fall in a pile of shit and come out smelling like a rose), whereas the former would make Mao Zedong the epitome of “OT” (i.e. “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”), I don’t think this last is where LRH was headed, Marty.

    It’s the inability to recognize the beauty and potential value in all beings that is petty.

  77. What about a “fleeting F/N”?

    The simple question about an F/N would seem to be “Does it float?”

  78. Grasshopper (Mark P)

    Hi Marty – two answers for you.

    One, quantity has been around since Book 1: PV = IDx. The potential value of a person is his intelligence times his dynamic, or survival thrust. The x is “to a power” indicating the the I and D are not of equal importance, and Ron placed the higher importance on the Dynamic. A person’s Dynamic is the sum of his free & enturbulated theta and Ron wrote that it varies from person to person. And pretty much does not change. Some people have less Dynamic than others. This is from 1950.

    Two: I would add a third option to your two, which is that it is quantitative but not markedly changeable (in the Scn view). You may gain abilities back to your native state, but not surpass it.

    In the tape “The Free Being”, Ron talks about OTs vs lesser beings and that OTs won’t get fooled again. Are not these lesser beings also thetans? Does the tech not apply to them? Does Ron posit a Chosen Group that is made up of good guys (OTs) against the bothersome bodies and lesser souls, who are others and who are enemies and are excluded? I say Yes. I say Ron was more or less elitist from the get-go – and yet despite that he developed a beautiful tech that transcends him, really.

    I never bought into the bigger and lesser being BS. I have questions about it, but I refuse to believe that there are variances in “theta endowment. “

  79. theosismanides

    Globetrotter, I agree with your viewpoint. Thanks

  80. I guess I have some problems with “Responsibilities of leaders” seeing how it fits within the framework of the Church.

    A leader takes people into uncharted territory. Or forwards some cause or purpose.

    Hubbard was s leader in the field of psychometric and led people for sure into the supernatural.

    But his methods were all mapped out. He said himself he developed the route. The only route.

    So where was there any place else for anyone to lead? Everyone else was supposed to follow his lead. He might better have written “The responsibilities of followers”. Maybe he did with all of those policies and HCOB’s.

    David calls himself a religious leader and the Church leader, but if all the technology was written and discovered and the policies and HCOB’s were laid out already, he isn’t needed to lead anybody anywhere. Maybe he tried to edge some leader identity in there when he announced Hubbard had left behind overt products with his tech and books and the auditors he made. But instead of people following him he caused a mass exodus from the Church.

    Once someone gets through Clear and the Sunshine Rundown they are classified as self determined. So why would they be followers anyway?

    That policy “Responsibility of Leaders” seems like it would be applied somewhere outside of the Church. Perhaps if some OT wanted to go take over another country or government or culture. But with the United Nations butting into everything they would need a little more info about red tape and politics.

    A leader certainly wouldn’t be following . And the people in the Church already have a leader (not David Miscavige) they are following. Hubbard (we would hope although, they have gotten a bit displaced).

    So, I don’t know why Hubbard wrote that unless it was to explain himself.

    Which is how I took it.

    The concept of flowing power to someone was covered in the “Stand By Me” song released in 1961.

    Leaders and Followers are not even on the scale of lines and terminals.

    If the ideal scene is “Associated Terminals” , where would a leader or follower fall on that scale.

    The R.O.L policy just seemed kind of non sequitar to ME, in the arena of psychometry, science, religion and the super natural. And wedged into a system where everyone is actually just following orders as they roll downward, except for one person.

    Maybe if I was being sent on a mission to overthrow somebody or some system…. Maybe Hubbard was headed in that direction and I just didn’t get it. Maybe he had visions of the Sea Org Members taking over the government. Don’t know how many soldiers could have been killed off with Golden Rod….

    Bolivar lead a struggle for Independence and then turned around and proclaimed himself dictator.

    Seems to me, that might have been his biggest fuck up.

  81. Joe Pendleton

    Marty, my viewpoint differs from yours a bit. I have always thought that being “at cause” was also a matter of quality of spiritual beingness as it deals with CREATE. (of course a being doesn’t HAVE to create, to BE, but it seems to be the way most of us beings have decided is the way to have fun in the universe we have postulated to inhabit). And this (to ME) really means the ever increasing ability to create my own universe, while also knowing that I live in the context of a shared universe and recognizing that others also have that right as beings. Increased power to postulate and create and cause is a great game to have (again, while always recognizing that others have that same right).

    I didin’t remember the reference on the big being thing. But I’m not too bothered by it on just a recognition that while any being can increase his enlightenment and ability, there DO seem to be some very big beings, not in the sense of mest at all, but in the sense of being able to create great effects. Yes, some of these great effects have been in the senses of just mest and/or violence and destruction. But the big beings that I admire are people like Micelangelo, Charlie Parker, Jack London, Martin Luther King, etc etc – great artists and people who greatly increase the ARC of their area. Now, this idea of some beings being bigger than others doesn’t bother me all that much EXCEPT when it is used as an excuse to assume power over other beings (who are considered “smaller”) – this is done in Scientology as a way to assume cause point over other peoples’ dynamics, including what they should do with their 2D, their careers, their money, their desires to do anything they want to do, etc etc etc. This excuse has also been used to make others slaves as well throughout recorded Earth history (and no doubt before that as well).


    Re: MEST & LRH. I don’t have a huge problem with the game of increasing production. It can be survival and great fun done the right way. (Of course one would have to do that in a business, though I question its use in a religion.) But LRH went a bit nuts on this as did Scientology. Nothing wrong with measuring the WDAHs for example and working towards increasing them year by year towards the goal of getting more people free. Or even looking at them weekly or daily just to keep an eye on it. BUT … the system of insanely going wacko over the daily and weekly stats with FORCE, PRESSURE AND HARSH CONSEQUENCES results in the following: (your essay on quality and quantity brought this to mind)-

    The HOUR of the Well Done Auditing Hours stat is given MUCH MORE priority and importance by orders of magnitude (and I have seen this numerous times) than a blow out win/persistant FN – which might result in a shorter session. Yes, some D of Ps and OESs have indeed had BIs when a pc is blown out winning and a session is shortened because of that or can’t go in the next day cause still on the FN. Somehow student points become VERY important, but I have never heard staff brag about a great cog a student had(!!!!!!!)

    Similarly I have seen an org prospect pay a lot for services and the GI is way high on a Weds and then the next day staff in Div 2 feel completely fucked because they have no “whale” on the line for the next week and the heat is gonna come down on them for letting the stat go down. This is straight from Ron. No excuse for a down stat (forget how great you made it high last week); stats don’t just go down, they are HELD down; groups thrive when ethics are SAVAGE (HCO PL Conditions, How to Assign), investigate down stats, find out who’s screwing things up, etc etc etc. I got into “stat anxiety” my SECOND week on staff as a 19 year old in 1970 when my senior grooved me in on graphs and told me if my stat was up I’d stay out of trouble, and so it went, to the point where I would either be obsessed with my stat or didn’t give a fuck at all, back and forth, back and forth,nuts.

    I just think somewhere in the 1960s, Ron decided that 1) beings currently were in much worse shape than he ever thought they were, and had much less self determinism available to themselves at any given time and that his dreams of an unabberated civilization which he first postulated in DMSMH was only going to happen if he FIRST put the hammer down on Scientologists to form some sort of small super group out of battles of intense pressure and dedicated mission and 2) very unfortunately he developed a real affinity for the game and all the trappings of a king/emperor/messiah and wanted his own law courts, prisons, punishments, courtiers & servants, special quarters, as well as the enjoyment of being a sort of general fighting enemies on the other side. Lots of fun for him as it had been for many beings who considered themselves very big beings in the past. It just had little to do with the nature of spiritual enlightenment as gone over in 8-8008 & Creation of Human Ability & Science of Survival, etc

    (sorry for overly long post, but you got me thinking as you often do)

  82. theosismanides

    Marty an excellent post bringing up issues that do exist and do make us all think about what went wrong.

    To me of course Scientology treats people as qualities. Scientology not the church.

    Though I have not done the upper levels and got not much of auditing either, I have read many of the non confidential lectures of LRH and have had great cognitions, bigger sometimes than I got from my low Bridge auditing. I as-ised things right there.

    Theta is quality. That’s for sure. But then MEST is quantity. And LRH stated that in order to have viability the sequence would be Quantity, Quality, Viability.

    In my opinion, Quality in this Universe is challenged to live with Quantities. This is the name of the Game. Quantity. Of course, society ignores that there is a Quality handling all this, Theta. So, scientists got stuck on this and examine everything from the viewpoint of Quantity.

    However, in any philosophy that is actually a significant body of knowledge and has gotten onto some truths, like Scientology or other philosophies, people know of the existence of a Static, 0 or 8 (infinite quantity), all Quality that is.

    So, why is it for Viability to have Quantity first? It’s the name of the Game. If a Thetan cannot handle Quantity and Force in this Universe he degenerates. It’s like a mark of his Theta abilities. How much can he handle? We are all subject to flows in this Universe, even Miscavige, lol. The way to handle that is not just with flows though (quantities) but with Theta which is closer to the finest and most minute differentiations possible and most delicate handlings. That was what LRH was different at. He surely had a “lot of quality” (lol) and could deal easier with quantity. Those in my opinion are not additives and powers that are making a Thetan move away from that Infinite Scale but on the contrary, the more close one is to this band the better his handlings are and the less force and energy he uses (Postulates). His Ethics are higher just by the fact that he tends to follow more prosurvival routes and actions. His aim is long term survival for, oh yes, the greatest number of dynamics. He can find and follow such solutions. Scientology is one of those solutions as it can help Man deal with his Life.

    However, in this “hard” Game called Life one has to deal with quantities to make it up to some degree. Knowing the Basics and being certain about them is key. But then not confronting Quantity has been the only reason we got down to this point. Cause is willingness to be duplicated. And effect is willingness to duplicate. Unwillingness to duplicate the MEST Universe (Quantity) is what keeps a thetan down to effect. That’s the basis of getting Engrams, too, isn’t it? So in any case a Static cannot duplicate (that’s my opinion now and I may be wrong) to that degree it falls down to effect. And when the incoming motion is TOO big for that “Static”, being in a lesser state than it used to be, that motion hits it forcefully and does create more of effect phenomena. To handle this LRH created bodies of Thetans, operating together to make one single Body and acting towards a common purpose.

    This is why numerous times I said it that Scientology DOES NOT WORK without 3Ds. Few people cannot handle the incoming motion sometimes, much less one man, alone. I see the idea of having organised groups in the Indies is not palatable. But only strong beings well organised in 3Ds can bring off some results when we start dealing with Bigger Quantities. It’s like a human body can do so many things but a Body of Thetans can do and accomplish much more. If you get a lunatic as the head of that Body of Thetans things can go awry.

    But it is my strong opinion that LRH created the Admin Tech so as to handle more quantity by the quality called a Thetan. And all the conditions and everything. However, I repeat, when the top of such a Body, let’s say the Thetan in charge of the whole Body, is insane and less knowledgable in the Basics of it all, things can go and did go awry.

  83. From the OP: “The very definition of power in Scientology radically changed as follows: a) The ability to maintain a position in space. – 1 March 1958
    b) The amount of work which can be accomplished in a unit of time, or the amount of force which can be applied in a unit of time. – 6 December 1966”

    It might make a difference in understanding if the rest of the second definition were included, which would then be as follows:

    b) The amount of work which can be accomplished in a unit of time, or the amount of force which can be applied in a unit of time. Power has the connotation of being potential. Power does not necessarily mean application of it. – 6 December 1966 (Tech Dictionary)

    Even as early as 1952, LRH was talking in terms of quantity and potential:

    “We can rehabilitate the preclear by raising his ability to create energy, and thus bring him to a “speed” which has sufficient output for him to overcome facsimiles. We do this by erasing or reducing certain facsimiles, and, in doing so, retrain our preclear to produce a higher energy potential.” (Chapter 3)

  84. p.s. Forgot to state which book those chapter quotes were from – it was Scn 8-80

  85. He’s saying that the real power is ARC. Cut that ARC line and it explodes in your face. It’s the diametric opposite of what happens on the OT levels. Go into an OT session and start cutting ARC lines and someone will have to dig you out from under the rubble. Try to run an org by cutting ARC lines and you wind up with Idle Morgues.

  86. Dear Marty ,I only completed the lower levels on the bridge ,and the basics,what was promised was delivered ,on the processeing side of the bridge objectives,I got what was promised ,my sight got better ,my postulate stuck ,and still do,i give as much as i could to help peoplewhat ever I put my intention on I got, only becourse of Scientology ,the most profound moment,for me was when I went exterior ,even my family saw that I changed for the better,in the 80s I believe Scientology gave me a service ,fast forward 2000 till present time gave me a the 80s I received Quality,after that it was all about quantity,just my opinion .
    Thankyou Eric Alexandrou Brisbane Australia

  87. Ralph, it’s been adequately recognized that it was LRH who overlaid Scientology with the earlier practice of a paramilitary command culture as an expedience. That culture, when taken too seriously, includes the following elements in which bullies thrive:
    1. Uniforms – eliminating group members sense of personal style, a hallmark of individuality
    2. Insulation of the group – creating a world of its own outside societal norms
    3. Elitism – difficult entry procedures, categorization (labeling) and demeaning of others, which promotes personal conformity to the group stereotype as the ideal
    4. Strong group cohesion – unity toward a common goal; task commitment; interdependence; satisfaction of personal emotional and social needs of belonging; interpersonal attraction; similarity of background (e.g., race, ethnicity, occupation, age), attitudes, values and personality traits; social identity; group pride
    5. Strong internal pressure for loyalty and conformity – creates in the individual a willingness to give in to conformity pressures in order to maintain or enhance their relationships and group status
    6. Behavior modification – individual behavior adjusted to conform to group norms, or “depersonalization” of self-perception
    7. External competition and threat – urgency of self-preservation as a group against a common foe
    8. Group over Individual – a group ethos that preservation of the group is paramount and individuals are expendable in that cause.

    That was the fatal, systemic flaw.

  88. Brian, if you would have seen as I have the documents gathered up under the Freedom of Information Act from government agencies memorializing the vicious, covert, decades-long disinformation campaign against LRH and Scientology under MKULTRA and who it was coming from, you would know that LRH was not being delusional in the slightest in RJ 67. Failure to pull that 4th Dynamic withhold fully and the resultant blow-back and the draconian internal counter-measures is what started the decline of centralized Scientology. And perhaps in the long run it’s all for the better because centralized emplacements make for an easy target and, “Fixed fortifications are monuments to man’s stupidity” (George S. Patton). Dianetics and Scientology did best as a grassroots movement of associated terminals. As a guerrilla activity – transcending the past, integrating with allies and evolving its culture into one that parallels society’s without compromising its technical integrity – it’s unkillable.

  89. martyrathbun09

    MKULTRA had nothing to do with Scientology.

  90. Hear, hear.

  91. martyrathbun09

    You have touched on a critical problem with attainment of higher states of consciousness in the current line up – rather than assisting with transcending ego, the line up heads towards creation of a super ego. That is not to say that lots of charge cannot be blown, and lots of cognitive awareness cannot be attained.

  92. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for those observations.

  93. I became aware of Scientology in 1970 when I moved into the neighborhood in LA, near MacArthur Park (possibly THE worst neighborhood in LA at the time – full of hard core drugs, addicts, etc) where the original CC LA was located, ASHO and AOLA.

    The contrast between Scientologists and the population of that area was obvious and clear.

    I wanted to get away from the drug culture. Scientologists were not involved with drugs.

    I wanted to find out about past lives. Scientology even had a book “Have You Lived Before This Life?”

    I wanted to find out if my past life caused the circumstances in my current life. BTW — I never did DEFINITELY find this out through auditing. (in spite of LOTS, and I mean lots of auditing through OT VIII)

    I am sure that every person who posts on this blog got involved with scientology IN THE HOPES that it would answer PERSONAL questions for the person as well as help the person eliminate those “additives” that prevented him/her from having a happy life.

    Somewhere along the line in our own auditing/training instead of getting rid of additives to “find oneself” — the culture AND the written word of LRH attempted to ADD and ADD and ADD to the person.

    When enough is added to a person eventually that person buckles. The burden of carrying such a heavy load becomes too great. And many — those of us on this board and others – say enough. And leave and begin to decompress – shed those additives.

    Others simply cease to live and become the walking dead although animated by the additives. And as you know speaking with a zombie is impossible.

  94. It has to do with phenomena that I think I have to re evaluate.
    Back in 1979 as staff I in my free time I could study what I wanted. I did listen to the reel tapes of the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. In the 90ies I bought those tapes on MC. Did listen to those lectures. First time through I did understand nothing. Empty words. Boring. I did think it must have something to do with me. Lost my ability to understand the language.
    In Summer 1979 I found a very interesting and important reference about Clear. Some month later I tried to find this reference. Simply disappeared. My idea had been that I did dream about reading it. Same „dream“ solution I had with a reference regarding floating needles.

    Back in 1976 if a preclear came back from the Apollo after e.g. attesting Clear you did look at him and you had a wow feeling. Later people came back from Flag attesting OT 3 or Nots and I thought my ability to observe is gone.
    Friends of mine doing some OT levels right at the time they had breakthroughs on that level I could feel that. Later no more feeling. Explanation: I am back in my head and my abilities gone.

    My solution for all this had been me. I lost something. I did dream up something.
    Until recently this had been my solution. All me. My disabilities. But now I wonder if this a good answer. Maybe I did not change but my environment. So, I search for a different answer right now.
    This new search for answers requires that I do not exclude something. Thus to have a new start I say to myself „everything is possible“. Exclusions do come later in the evalutation process. Right now I am in the „everything is possible“ phase one.

  95. I don’t know how you can make such a categorical statement, Marty, Indeed, it did. MKULTRA was aimed at any group that was perceived to be a threat to “national security” and was a covert mind control program by CIA. (See

    LRH missed their withhold when he exposed Pain Drug Hypnosis in Science of Survival (and elsewhere) so they targeted him through disinformation to media and police intelligence lines and Interpol.

  96. I think the reference on how a F/N has to look like had to be changed depending on the type of electronics used. The early meters did use vacuum tubes. Maybe later ones did use gallium arsenid transistors and the latest one silicium transistors. If you build amplifiers with those 3 different types of electronics the result is also different. Has to do with signal latency and other electronic factors. If you build amplifiers for music then vaccum tubes make the best sound. After that gallium arsenid and worst is silicium.

  97. martyrathbun09

    I can make it because I studied all government files in posession of the church which were far more files than you had – unless you were in the CIA, because they included non-FOIA (the documents purloined by the GO). I did not say the campaign did not exist. I said you were plain wrong about MK ULTRA.

  98. Another great article, Marty.

    Here’s my take…

    As others have noted, modifiers like big, small, heavy, light, etc do not apply to a static, by definition. If one considers the being as a composite being then we can introduce quantitative properties because we are no longer dealing with a pure static.

    The term “big being” is often used within the church as a validative term (e.g. He’s such a Big Being). The lesser used “small being” or “little being” is generally derogatory, implying weakness or inability. These are quantitative terms. Apparently size does matter.

    LRH even went as far to create a “formula” of sorts which describes The Power of a Thetan (don’t have the reference to hand, but you know which one I’m referring to – the mega-ton-watt-light-year-raised-to-the-power-of-infinity…squared?). Quantity seems pretty important.

    What appears to be missing in the vernacular are terms of quality. Almost at a loss for words, Scnists will simply say “He’s so ‘theta'” – duh. How could he not be? “Theta” as a modifier, seems to be the catch-all qualitative term, but lacks imagination.

    Consistent with yin-yang and force and intelligence, I would include Quality and Quantity. Scn and the church have most definitely swung over to the Quantity side. All you have to do is start looking for quantity, here’s a few off the top of me ‘ead:
    1) Money – lots of emphasis on dosh. Services are expensive. Fundraising.
    2) Time – lots of time commitments from both staff and public. OT7 takes “a lot” of time.
    3) Status – IAS donation levels to achieve honorary status (mock-quality, mock-beingness).
    4) Big Buildings – x number of square feet. How often do we hear that? It’s so important now that they keep stats on it.
    5) Stats – think about it – what are stats but a method to measure quantity over periods of time.

    But I see these as organizational manifestations brought about by a philosophic shift – from quality to quantity. We get what we put our attention on. Have (quantity) appears to the focus of the collective attention, at the expense of Be (quality). What “quality” we are left with is “cold, chrome steel”, “unreasonable”, “fixed dedicated glares”, basically discompassionate fanatics.

  99. Excellent observations. And the illogic of the weekly stat puzzles everyone I met – unless one agrees blindly.

  100. The only difference I observed between the germanium (not gallium) transistors used in earlier meters and the silicon chips used later was that germanium circuits introduced random noise more. The main factor changing the nature of the F/N is the actual meter movement used for the needle and the driver circuit used for it.

  101. “Memory is almost infinite. Pain and sorrow goes on and on in one’s memory as a result of incarnate existence. Birth old age death, birth old age death, loss of loved ones, disease etc etc. Engrams are almost with every life. Millions and millions of memories.” Sounds lot a hellavelotta mass to me and there inlies the QUANTITY. Get back to the emptiness get back to QUALITY. ARC Bill Dupree

  102. Graduated………. Paulette Cooper? Please explain the need to destroy one women’s life. What was his motive destroying a simple critic? A writer….. A journalist.

    Justifying vilolence is a dangerous game my friend. I served in CCHR when it was being ramped up in the mid and late seventies. Believe me I know the mindset.

  103. I know all about interpol and the Paul Dickoff coonection. Where are they all now if they were such a big cabal to destroy Scientology. Don’t you think they’d all be helping you bring down Scientology now! Where are they????????? Did they just go home???? Don’t want to play bad guy anymore??

  104. I think that there was a change in Scientology. Very definite and that happened to a very marked degree in 67 when LRH searched OT III and created the Sea PJ that later became the Sea Org.
    Of course the “Scn” we have experienced lately lost its original purpose.
    How much of that can be “blamed” on LRH and how much on DM will be a never ending debate. I think is all a matter of intention and purpose. I believe that LRH intention and purpose has always been in the direction of bettering man’s understanding and ability and in the research of methods that were producing that betterment. DM intentions have been REVERSE to those – his are intentions of downgrading people and making slaves.
    I also think that not all the LRH has done is perfect, workable, or that has to be taken at face value – he has his ways of teaching, his way of explaining things, and his approaches have been for the most empirical.
    You said is a matter of reducing or eliminating additives to the being. And I agree on that, that is a huge part of what is required to be able to re-experience spiritual states of high awareness.
    But there are other factors that do not imply reducing or eliminating the so called additives but that have to do with increasing abilities looking at past experience, jus recalling and re-evaluating, then there are postulates that the being made and also a specific approach to increase particular abilities by drilling them. In essence to make a parallel is like if one was as an assumption a great pianist – Ok he can’t play the Piano because his hands are tied up, glued, cement have been poured on them .. but he has this knowingness of being a Great Pianist! Good, thanks to processing the glue can be taken apart, the cement ripped and the knots released – all the additives have been removed – now we will face his considertions in relation to play the Piano (again) – he will need to refamiliarize with scales, arpeggios, reading music, so this I consider the OT Levels. And one thing has to be also taken into account the fact that we are all playing A GAME. Of course if no game would be played there will be only the STATIC. But we did choose to play a game, and in ANY games there are roles – some more important and some less important and here is where the power consideration enters in, I do think people are very different as beings, bigger o lesser in quantity – could be or could just be bigger or lesser in QUALITY too, a quality achieved and developed by playing the Game, by exercising in playing it. We know that parts of a being are scattered “in the Universe” by reason of his attention units being stuck in location and time. This is an old concept and so when you refer to a UNIT of attention you enter the quantity field. It could be in order to better explain and visualize and understand a concept that this was said by LRH.
    I am sure he had the quality of the spirit in mind – but how to make us understand what he meant?
    In closing I do think that betterment, higher states of awareness, beingness, doingness and havingness and a better understanding of the game and ability to play is possible applying and using Scientology. But that this must be done using all our wits to understand what we are doing and cannot be imposed by anyone o cheply sold as a way to reach power.
    Nothing wrong with power and winning, we know is a game – I like Scientology when really everybody WINs! It looks like a lot of us LOST in doing it but….. we are recovering.
    I will have much more to say …. but….

  105. EnthralledObserver

    The “who” is DM and LRH… the “why” is because none of you ever bothered to do your own ‘research’ and let these two “whos” tell you their version unverified and uncontested for far too long.

  106. EnthralledObserver

    iRobot… anyone?

  107. Having read the many replies I have some additional thoughts. To increase the quality we have gone through changes with the application of the tech – converted some entheta to theta. (same as moved some theta stuck with mest to free theta). We have a quality difference. We have less “additivies.” So how do we see people go up the bridge and become more solid and more fixed and more secluded from the rest of the world and their dynamics.

    Those increasing quality may fall in the trap of measuring this increase against some quantifiable item. The RCS, or any other group, fixed idea and group agreement of how you should be, act and participate if you really increased quality. Even down to getting a success story approved for crying out loud. Yeah – I just completed OT whaz whaz and am cause over bling blat and now I must have somebody approve the wording of my success story – and that person may not have even completed high school!

    That group agreement either voluntarily and gleefully entered into or enforced in has the exact opposite effect as the freeing up of theta to make one in control of their own postulates, thoughts, pictures, aspirations, etc.

    As free beings increasing a qualitative awareness and operation of whatever one’s native state is we should see something like the ARC triangle expanding ever upward and outward. It would look like an upside down pyramid structure. Our quality would encompass whatever we reached out to include in our game.

    Instead we see someone going “up” the bridge (note the difference of going “up” versus going “across”) toward the pinnacle of a triangle (think of going to the top of a pyramid) and truly getting smaller, less quality and with the desire to become that very teeny tippy top atom of stuff.

    The philosophy had the intention as communicated in early books that brought me into this subject to make us better more able beings by removing additives. The 3rd dynamic which formed to forward this has the ideal of a controlled cohesive forceful game of war on psych, war on this, war on that – with the ideal scene that you just take your place within the ponzi pyramid of power, keep your mouth shut, give us you life, freedom, money, first born etc – in fact if you do all of that you are full cause of everything.

    From Phoenix Lectures –
    “But unless you get him over his blindness, his unreality about something he’s already agreed to, he is working against himself – he’s fighting his own agreements.”

    This applies to everybody if it is a basic truth. To me, you, all of us on the blog, all in the RPF, all SO and RTC, and yes, it even applied to LRH and those close to him through the many years. Any person can find themselves working against their own agreements – if when they may not be aware they even made the previous agreement or thought agreeing with somebody elses’ agreement is their own idea. My only desire is to see that all the gems and good in this is not thrown into the trash heap with the pile of rubble we shall see when the current regime comes crashing down.

    We all need to be moving on up a little higher. And LRH gave us many tools to help us to do this. But we would be remiss to only live our life and look for answers from what he found in his life. We live in times that are different and we can also learn from others through the ages that have worked for answers that worked. We will find the ultimate quality and ability to have or not have quantity at will by removing additives, falsehoods, etc and stick with what we find to be true.

  108. This is precisely what I would tell Buddhist friend’s of mine who just couldn’t understand how TC et al could be involved.

    I explained how,initially, people myself included usually came into scientology because they had lives that were in need of help. Stated differently — “fractured egos” — and scientology helped put their lives in order.

    THEN rather than now transcending or dismantling this ego — scientology/OT Levels/the culture creates a SUPER EGO — a super “deluded” SUPER MAN – that walks over people …

    Buddhists get this really well … because we work at becoming aware of “no-self”

    Or “emptiness” — OR theta — without additives but with endless possibilities

  109. Amen to that! 🙂

  110. Then you and I saw the same documents, non-FOIA included. And, no, I didn’t have to be in the CIA to see them. In fact, I saw them when they were fresh and included the MKULTRA connection. So, here, I’ll make a categorical statement – what you saw after the docs had been passed to OSA years later was incomplete. (Kinda by-passes charge, eh?)

    Thank you for acknowledging that the disinformation against LRH existed, which was the primary point I was making to Brian.

  111. You don’t think Scientology hasn’t been effectively destroyed, Mr. Advocate of Non-violence?

  112. How is that within your sphere of influence?

  113. I can’t speak for those who got sucked into reciprocating the dirty tricks campaigns that were in vogue during those times. All I know is that it was off-policy and, as per PR Series 18, it recoiled upon them and all Scientologists big time. I do know that those behind the disinformation campaigns imported hack journalists to do hatchet jobs on Scientology and LRH, and they are not immune to the inherent recoil effect of employing Black PR, either.

  114. When in college, I kept looking around wondering, “Is this it?” “What are we doing on this planet?” “What am I going to do in my life?”

    SCN gave me that feeling that “something could be done about it.” That feeling is what caused the adventure of the 50’s – all the old timers were in it together chasing that dream, along with LRH. This is very similar to the hippy movement – “something could be done about it.” i did not realize until recently that I had lost that belief over the years.

    One has to admire LRH for having the horsepower to get so many people chasing that dream. Whether the tech is good or bad, whether he succeeded or failed, whether he snapped or not is not even the issue. He did, without argument, get a bunch of people to go for it again.

    Perhaps it is the transfer of that hat away from LRH and onto the shoulders of each individual is what it is all about anyway. Even the the Hindu swami Vivikenanda said that, in the end, the only way to make it is take it on all by yourself. Maybe, in the long run, that is what is so difficult.

  115. Dear Claudio,
    I agree , everything you state is truth in my opion and based on expierience in the C of $. Recently stated on this Blog was stated that there were 60,000 Scientologists World wide.Even if you ran them all though an old fashion wringer you wouldnt get millilons, by a long shot.
    The C of $ has past the tipping point , next is the Flash Point, an event that triggers the Inferno of Collapse. Enron executives and Bernie Maydoff
    ( inmate at Camp Fluffy) can describe this better than myself.

    Best advice is Indie / Freezone concentrate on Quality, Quality, Quality, Quality.

  116. For whatever reason, LRH did not come back. If he had been reborn right away he would now be 27 years old. We can speculate all day as to why he did not come back.

    If you are afraid of the between lives area and trying to get to a point where you will not become the effect of it before you die, I suggest reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche. If you don`t feel like reading the whole thing, then start by reading the chapter entitled: The Universal Process. I think you will be surprised.

    Click to access The-Tibetan-Book-of-Living-and-Dying.pdf

  117. like 🙂

  118. Marty,
    You brought a very good point; one which I have not particularly thought about all the way through. Thanks, very enlightening, and here are my 2 cents:

    The fixation with power attainment has been part and parcel of the old magical systems, black or white magical arts, occult practices, etc.

    As all things spiritual, the magic arts do have a valid part in the process, but it is a road that if unduly emphasized, will most surely take you into a dead end GPM.

    So yes, a key point to maintain context and integration with the rest of the human race is to keep that spin out of Scientology.

    Another is to frame and root Scientology within the best of the Eastern Traditions.

    The best way is to keep the practice in the field of psychotherapy with as many independent auditors as possible. I find that when we keep Scientology in that fashion, as it was originally intended, all this religious insanity (positive/negative) and paramilitary lunacy goes away.

    The more I look at how corporate scientologists behave, their covertness, and their obsessive quest for power and control, the more they look like a satanic cult to me.

    Sometimes in my association with scientology I had the uneasy feeling that I was surrounded by the people of Rosemary’s Baby movie.

    What a nightmare I woke from !

  119. martyrathbun09

    ….and there is a band of ex-GO operatives still plotting away with them in South America…

  120. Graduated, I agree with you completely and I especially like your last line – it’s a beauty unto itself!

  121. I think this could be a very interesting viewpoint by Enthralled Observer but I can’t fully understand that one compound sentence. What does “…unverified and uncontested for far too long” refer to?

  122. If I mat summarize, that fatal, systemic flaw was the creation of Sea Org. It seems that in Ron’s own mind his turn-around and the destruction of Scientology was fully completed by 1967 and that culminated in the creation of Sea Org. I wonder what happened between 1958 and 1967. The State of Man Congress was 1961. The process of changing his mind about the humanity and Scientology was well underway by then. To really pinpoint the time period, what happened between 1958 and 1961?

  123. I liked both your comments.
    If there is something I would like to add is, that the Quality is playing a game within a Quantity universe. And LRH very early in this work stated that Scientology is the means to raise our ability to have and play a game. And I see many of his later discoveries (data series, management by statistics, the admin scale) as valuable tools at the level of games.
    Unfortunatly many of this tools are described in a very different manner as his earlier books and lectures.
    But they are still valid and in no way a contradiction to the Technology of “removal of MEST from Theta”.
    I may add that I use the administrative technology (for my work) with much better results since I left the church and its environment. The tools are alright and I feel gratitude for having them. I am restudying many of it as to make me free from previous evaluations which were based on a incorrect scene (the environment of the church).
    That’s why I say that ethics, tech and admin are all good as long as they are used to serve life. If used in the direction of “owning” life Scientology has the tendency to back-fire. It did. And will so every single time. The same is true for any other tool, by the way.

  124. That which created the concept of quality and that which created the concept of quantity determines which is of greater value, lesser value or equal value or no value at any given moment. The creator makes these determinations purely for its own amusement.

  125. Crashing Upwards

    Exactly. And its not new. Its been pointed that way for decades. It may be worse now. The result is actually a being who is less aware and less himself than he or she could have been. Its so obvious that this is the wrong direction. Yet the Church with all the answers and all the tech missed this incredibly fundamental point of personal growth and awareness and emphasized the wrong path.

  126. Per Science of Survival (and verified by simple everyday observation of people), thetans do vary as to size. People who others consider “charismatic” tend to have large theta endowments. They walk into a room, the whole place lights up. LRH being an obvious example.

    However, the theta endowment of each being can be increased by the conversion of entheta (charge) to theta. Or, as a corollary, decreased by the addition of entheta (from injury, trauma etc). We see evidence of the latter, unfortunately, all around us in the lowered tone, the smaller & smaller spaces, of many (not all, of course) as they age.

    If you want to see an example of someone who does not fit the profile of your average “old” person, take a look at the Phil Spickler interviews. There’s a guy who has a whole hell of a lot of theta and has not lost a bit of it.

    So I conclude by saying, there is absolutely no contradiction – thetans ARE inherently unequal – but all can still change their “size” – by auditing (the best way, IMO), by application of ethics, by education, and so on.

  127. 🙂
    Indeed. There is nothing left to be reversed.

  128. The notion of quantity of theta,or the size of a thetan is an apparency.
    I tried to conceive of both for the sake of argument ( your posts are making for lively and lovely arguments with my husband!),looking at people I know , first going from the assumption that there is a difference in size , trying to imagine how these people would “feel” having been audited properly and their potential is not measurable.Only their accomplishments in the physical universe can be measured.
    The idea of big beings and smaller beings is a useless evaluation . Maybe it was grabbed onto because of people’s needs for a God.
    The Church has been ruining so many people’s potential with the pursuit of power thinking they can only see it in terms of possessions and status . I see these additives glued on people , barring them from the true gains of auditing.
    One only needs to look at DM at an ideal org event to see that concept at play, his condescension toward others pours out of him , and I could see it long before I knew anything in particular about his deeds!
    Now why Lrh introduced this idea , I would like to know for sure.

  129. Marty, I really like this point you made: rather than assisting with transcending ego, the line up heads towards creation of a super ego.

    I labeled this phenomenon the “Big Being Complex”. Sometimes you get these people who see themselves as big heroes on the track, and get all wild and egotistical as a result of their “wins”. Thinking they can “take over the business world” or whatever. Boy, could I name some names!

    Super Ego indeed!

    THESE are the folks who have over the years wrought so much damage, whether in the GO, the SO, or just out in the real world.

    Interestingly enough, though, few of these people had much, if any, auditor training AND experience auditing others. Because there’s nothing like learning to listen, learning how to grant beingness, really GETTING that there are many many other capable, good beings out there besides oneself, to convince one that he or she is NOT the center of the universe!

    The best Scientologists I knew and know are humble but highly capable, aware people who truly do care about others. The rest just never really got it.

  130. Plus LRH was a boyscout and they have merit badges and “levels”.

    I always thought that if you just audited the PC for his benefit and what he was intested in you wouldn’t need to state that he or she was a Clear or OT or L’s completion, whatever. These can be titles to just make others wrong with.

  131. GH, I don’t agree with you that LRH designated “lesser beings” and excluded them, or even put them into 2nd or 3rd class status.

    Sure, if someone is PTS or SP, that is a different matter. I don’t want to get diverted off into that area, but it’s obviously very important to exercise extreme care to apply the exact criteria before affixing those labels to someone – but we all know, there are such people.

    Having said that, there’s plenty of material in upper levels that states very clearly that “smaller” and/or degraded beings can go from complete unconsciousness to clear, straighten up and get back in the game. With zero invalidation as to their potentials or native abilities.

    Degradation is not a label to be put on someone to humiliate, although like anything else, it has often been misapplied that way to great harm. Degradation is a result of accumulated trauma as one proceeds through existence and, if you believe this can be released (as LRH obviously did), then the degraded state can be fully reversed.

    I think it is something of a slam on Ron to say he thought “smaller” beings were “bothersome”. On the contrary, it is as clear as anything can be that he wanted to help ALL beings go free.

  132. wh,
    In 1973 in New York City, I noticed a freshness to the Scientology
    promotional material. I remember in particular a photo of a
    scientologist with a rope and he looked like he knew what he
    was doing with the rope. It was so simple but so effective.
    Fast forward about 15 years and I see Mr. Miscavige on the
    deck of the Freewinds as leader of the Church.
    Inside I say “What happened?” Miscavige is totally incapable
    of real communication. The saga thus ends for me at OT8.
    Looking back, I do feel that Ron Hubbard gave it all one
    hell of a try – for that I am grateful.

    George M. White

  133. This spirit is what it thinks it is. So we get LRH thinking it is this or that or seeing that it thinks it is this or that. If it thinks it is a body or mind, we are into quantity, size and energy and then some! If it thinks it is a static then there is nothing to consider and it is nothing and it is everything and it is exactly where it is and nowhere else! It cannot be big or small, and it cannot be bad or good.

    Only at the point of manifestation is there any quantity or even quality. Only then is there something to quantify or qualify.

    If running Dianetics, there is all kinds of quantity and quality.
    If running the grades, same thing.
    If running the OT sections, well, you tell me what exactly you are auditing!
    If running an org, quantity and quality are a big deal and the reach of the individual is paramount.

    So really, it depends. Its all dependent.

  134. Flo (France)

    I am very convinced now that Lrh has destructed all he had built with a enthusiasm in the 1950s. What do you do at 1.5 ? You destroy your own creation and the other’s one. I don’t know what happen to him to fall so low on the tone scale that but if you read attentively the materials you see perfectly this fall. There are too many contradictions in the datas.

  135. martyrathbun09

    Differentiation will set you free.

  136. I don’t agree that it was ever Ron’s intention to destroy Scientology. At the time, Scientology was being heavily attacked and, being a Navy brat and a former Naval Officer, he used as an expedience what command and control culture he knew best to manage the scene – which actually worked relatively well, given the circumstances, as Scientology expanded into the late ’70s. It was the blow-back from Snow White programs – the death of Quentin, the arrest of Mary Sue, the threat of federal prosecution, health issue, etc. – that put him into the bunker and left the helm open for the biggest bully to seize. Things started going to hell at that point (circa 1980) by stat. So, the Admin Why would have to be just prior. As to an earlier Ethics Why, who knows? And frankly, who cares? As long as we know going forward that adopting a paramilitary culture is booby trapped and is not the way to win friends and influence people.

  137. I wouldn’t put it past them.

  138. Dear Windhorse, thats’s what your master Chögyam Trungpa called Spiritual Materialism, I think

  139. Marty you mention the saying: “The end justifies the means”, as possibly having been part of now canceled policies.

    My view is that the opposite stands true. My sense is that ”The end will be a product of the means utilized”. As popular wisdom puts it, “You reap what you sow”. Or, as wise men have said throughout thee ages: “there is no destination, the destination is the journey”.

    So however we journey, however we behave on the path of life is what determines the destination—where we end up. Ethical behaviors lead to ethical destinations. Unethical behaviors lead to unethical endings, with all the ensuing sufferings. Abusive behaviors lead to abusive endings. Kind behaviors lead to more kindness. Is this not what karma is about?

    That’s why in my view it’s so important to look not just at where we are going, but at how we journey. Are my steps today rooted in the values and behaviors that I stand for? If I stand for respect, tolerance, forgiveness, are they rooted in these values? If I stand for joy, kindness, are these the behaviors that I manifest?

    I like this intent behind Scientology to “restore the quality of life” as you put it, and to look at the “qualities” in human beings. I don’t know whether Scientology has strayed from this or not, but I know for me that today I have the option to do just that: to use each breath given to me to restore the quality in my life, and to look at the qualities in other human beings. If I do that, it is one more day that I have made worthwhile living, one more day that I have contributed something to humanity.

    Thank you for this great post

  140. Good point. I learned long ago that someone’s “case level” is really a personal matter between them and their Auditor and C/S. It’s really no one else’s business.

  141. LOL!

  142. Nailed it! (as usual)

    That’s exactly the problem with these shared universes. There is only one driver’s seat in a bus.

  143. Destroyed by internal violence because of violent policies and not outside agency.

    Brian aka Mr. Advocate of Non Violence.

  144. Marty, I think that Scientology technology deals with qualities and takes the person to higher awarreness and less additives, valences, circuits and what not. Your point is very interesting but it refers to LRH’s Policiy…that is where it seems to go into quantity. Now, if you explore it a bit further I beleive he departed from his own concept as describen on An Essay on Management of circa ’58. He is the Goal Finder and he notes that when a Goal Finder goes into Management it does not work. Could be this a point where things in Policy varied from the Quality Goal? Maybe…

  145. Graduated……… Paulette Cooper………. No one addresses Paulette Cooper. The CIA, FBI, Government, MKULTRA, etc etc etc. is defaulted to.

    Paulette Cooper. One women…… One journalist…….. Life sabotaged…..

    Please address this topic.

  146. Marty, given that LRH wrote the Simon Bolivar policy where he says either literally or not so literally (depends on the reader’s interpretation) that it is OK to kill the enemies of the one on whose power you depend, how does that translate to what was done to the reporter, Paulette Cooper? Did the GO take that on themselves without Ron’s knowledge and so he never knew what was done to her? Or did Ron order those things to be done to Paulette and he knew all along what was happening with her? Anyone have an answer for me on that? I really want to know.

  147. Curious, yes. I see no reason to disbelieve David Mayo’s statement that he had a letter from LRH saying that he expected to return in 21 years which Merril also said that she saw. The Bridge was incomplete when he dropped the body – many levels were intended after OT8 as he made clear in the “From Clear to Eternity” issue. Quite a few Scientologists have expressed the idea of leaving for a distant realm of theta beings after dropping the body but I don’t think LRH was of that ilk. For me personally I think that the future of this planet in the next thousand years or so will prove to be the greatest adventure of the whole track. I don’t think LRH was obliviated by his body death but is just taking a bit longer to recover than anticipated. But, as said, that is in the realm of speculation.

  148. Dear Dio,
    Love it! 🙂

  149. Provoking and insightful essay Marty.

    Don’t think I am educated enough about the movement or organization or tech myself to answer the question. I would admit I don’t know.

    I recall reading somewhere “this is a quantity universe, not a quality universe ” kind of policy but I can not recall what the policy letter was or where I saw it.

    I know I have been able to reclaim parts of myself left behind in other places so on some level I have expanded . But I have not considered personally, quantity senior to quality.

    Ten criminals compared to one good teacher, does not make a higher value in the higher quantity. These are mathematical issues but values are relative to purposes. If someone is planning a home invasion, they may consider the ten criminals a higher value than one teacher. Potentials are maybe values. If the potential is realized it becomes a value. Every piece of real estate had some potential when purchased. Cast against time and economics that potential becomes very wobbly.

    Hubbard did make some assessments with quantity vs. quality but he was doing his own math against his own purposes.

    In RJ 35, Hubbard states: “This universe is based on QUANTITY. There’s an awful lot of it.”

    In Data series 5, Hubbard says “Thus the QUANTITY of data poured in is not any guarantee of understanding.” That is true enough. I have met people that have have claimed to have read everything Hubbard ever wrote but could not apply any of it successfully as their delivery was secondary to the “quantity of cash” they needed to resolved their immediate PTP’s.

    “Conditions” on the awareness chart and in ethics (reasoning and mathematical abilities) certainly leans on observing qualities. Someone lacking in quality enough to produce any quantity of anything, is seen as in an undesirable condition.

    “There is, however, a sector which has no concept of order, and may not have the slightest notion of why anyone would bother with it. You will most likely find them in apathy, overwhelm or despair with regard to their post areas. No matter what they do they simply cannot get their products out in adequate quantity and quality. They try and try and try but everything seems to be working against them.
    When you find such a situation, know that the area is in Confusion. You are trying to handle an area which is in a confirmed, dedicated condition of Confusion.”
    Order VS Disorder P.L.

    Yet, we find sociopaths with neat homes and lots of beautiful cars and fat bank accounts.

    Hubbard does say, “ATTENTION UNIT: A theta energy quantity of awareness existing in the mind in varying quantity from person to person.”

    This is where quantity does play a major role. If people do not have enough attention units to connect the dots with the Scientology datums, they will not be able to get the big picture. They will hobby horse on policy and not connected that with any other knowledge and do great damage.

    What is a sociopath but someone devoid of enough attention units to see how things connect, even to them?

    This measurement and availability of attention units explains a lot whys. To me. You can get a person way up the bridge and if they don’t enough attention units to be able to drive safely, they will drive right into a head on collision.

    “Why did Ed Mooney, OT8 die in car accident a few months or weeks after completing OT8?” Some people wanted to know. His attention units had been spent before he hit the freeway.

    Everyone that causes damage, rips you off, betrays your trust, lets you down, makes stupid moves, is simply a person that is not equipped with enough attention units to consider your well being along with theirs.

    In this vein, quantity is very important. And the quality you get really is dependent upon a quantity.

    Debug checklists and product clearing is the business of freeing up attention units. Some people have such little quantity of attention units they can only operate on orders. “No Orders” can be a huge bug for them.

    If you look at the people out here now that view you as a menacing particle because you are not following orders or issuing them, you can see how having a small quantity of attention units even gets dirt on your living room floor.

    When I look at it this way, I can see why Hubbard scaled it out like this:

    Three major factors govern every product. These are
    A. Quantity
    B. Quality
    C. Viability
    Quantity would be an acceptable, expected or useful volume.
    Quality would be the degree of perfection of a product.
    Viability would be the longevity, usefulness and desirability of the product.

    In Org series 10.

    You take a person that is labeled “autistic”. What do you have there except someone with an under quantity of attention units available to use?


  150. I think one huge problem Hubbard had to face, was how to be real to everyone or reach them on some level to include them in the game.

    He had to make statements to people that had a very small bag of attention units, and he had to make statements to people that a very huge bag of attention units.

    Sometimes his data was therefore conflicting. Because you really can not throw the same data out to both parties and expect everyone to be on the same page.

    Therefore you get people that can only cling to one or two datums and throw those up as the most important. And you will get people that can network all of it and file it in proper relativity and even integrate all of that into other bodies of knowledge!

    Why isn’t everyone on the same page in this arena?

    It varies by quantity of available attention units.

    And that is exactly why Scientology is different to everyone who approaches it.

    It does no good to go against those that “can’t see the big picture” or “can’t connect the dots”. Or misuse it or abuse it or permit it to fall along purpose lines that are not constructive.

    People really are making the most of the available or quantity of attention units they are traveling with.

  151. Perfect.

    In my opinion there are far too many who still don’t get this oh so simple shift in view, concept, etc.

    I could be wrong and dearly hope I am but thanks for posting this comment.


  152. If you look at the success of David Miscavige, it has been labeling “distractions” , moving them off the lines, and permitting people with a very small quantity of attention units, to focus those.

    Not allowing people to mis spend their attention units.

    “no television” “no friends” “don’t waste your attention on delivery” “don’t anybody waste attention units on training” “Don’t waste attention units on family” “Don’t waste attention units on the ARCXen public” “Don’t waste attention units on your case or getting up the bridge” “Don’t waste your attention units over there” etc etc. It is all about conserving quantities of attention units.

    What are “outside distractions” but an announcement that you don’t have enough attention units?

    What is your biggest crime here? Convincing people they DO have enough attention units to know more, see more, be do have more and even integrate what they have into larger realms of influence knowledge and understanding! And have even higher understanding and awareness!

    Well hey! How many attention units did you have for all of that multi tasking in the Sea Org? You bopped in and out of the orgs and in and out of society at the same time, right up to Washington, and in and out of the admin divisions and in and out of the tech divisions.

    Who else had all of those attention units to spend? Most people were sitting at their desk and not succeeding at making that a go!

    Not everyone has those quantities of attention units.

    So when you suggest people run along aside you for an adventure, you have to expect some people are going to fall back into a market place where they were comfortable with what they could spend with theri attention units and start shouting, “Conserve! Conserve! Only look at this! Only look at that! Spend frugally! Stay focused here! ” and as much as they are kicking and protesting about David Miscavige, they are going to run the same program.

    Which brigs me around to David’s available attention units.

    How many do you think he really has when he is stuck to a camera focused at your window or Mike’s front yard?

    Yes, this is where quantity really does matter.

  153. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it Marty (and others). What I am still trying to understand is how the state of ‘clear’ (and or OT) can appear (or actually is) so ‘vulnerable’ to such shenanigans of bait and switch? (from spiritual intro to ego development).

    It would seem the ‘absence’ of stimulus-response / reactive-mind may be leaving a gaping-hole where rational thought once was. For example, a rational thinking being would never accept sheer ‘violence’ as being evidence of a heroic (or spiritually enlightened) being. Such thought is simply not supported by spiritually realized being. Nor are brutal smear campaigns designed and engaged to utterly destroy anyone, including critics of ones chosen spiritual path. And yet clears and OT’s by the thousands & thousands have engaged in exactly such (abberrated?) thought in-action, for years and years and years on end. To this day.

    What gives? Do you (or any others here) have any idea’s or notion’s or insight’s regarding this strange and frightening phenomena?

    An otherwise innocent sincere seeker of truth comes in, goes clear or OT, and comes out as a bonafide raving s social maniac. Ala squirrel busters.


  154. Hi Marty
    Thank you for running this blog and asking the questions, that address the many areas I have conflict in and allowing me to gain a foot hold of being able to clear up those areas. To think with the data in those areas and to make it mine.
    Having said that:
    I can understand big thetan and small thetan. The more processing ones gets, the more theta is unleashed from being locked up in whatever. Resulting in a bigger thetan.
    Having said that I also understand that the quality side has nothing to do with the size of thetan (other than potential) but is a matter of being.
    The quality of Being comes from, truly caring and seeking understanding so as to choice correctly what you do.
    So you can have a big thetan that has not been allow to think, to look, but just to act in a certain way – and they lose out on quality side of being.
    A bigger win is understands how I got myself into all these areas of conflict as I try and straighten out those areas.
    I can see how I started out in scientology, with full agreement on the basic principles of being a better person and being a bigger person and taking that out into the world to make it better for all.
    And ever so slowly losing out on making the data my data, fully inspected it, to make it my data and just accepting it. Acting on it because that is what was called for. I missed out on a comparable datum of magnitude, I missed out relative importance, and I missed out on truly understanding because time was short and there was more to do right now. I am wiser for it and value the time I spend in fully seeking a broader understanding
    But I am gaining it all back, plus more with all your insightful blog entries.
    Early on I read a small black book with a white breaded fellow on the cover – Brain washing – by LRH Hubbard. It was excellent – the basic idea was start with a fully inspected acceptable idea and slowly adds other ideas in that are just accepted without being fully inspected.
    I didn’t apply as I had trust. Blind trust. However I am not so blind now. Still willing to trust though.
    Thank you for doing what you do – the rest is up to me.

  155. There are a number of first hand sources that have confirmed LRH’s awareness, if not control, of what the GO was up to.
    For example, from Tonja Burden’s affidavit (one of R’s personal messengers when he was in Florida in 1976), “I personally delivered messages concerning Operation Snowhite, Operation Freakout, Operation Goldmine, and other Scientology secret and illegal operations. I also filed these operations in Hubbard’s personal filing cabinet, and later in filing cabinets of the GO.”

  156. Michael, seems to have been very astute of you to pinpoint the time period of 58-61 when you consider what Phil Spickler said in this video about what happened to LRH in 1958:

  157. Aren’t you asking for first blood?

    ..and where does that one take us?

  158. Great thought-provoking article, Marty.Here’s my own take on the various points you addressed:

    Theta is quality, period. You can’t have a quantity of something that isn’t a thing and that has no matter, energy, time, or location in space. And I think that irrespective of case state and environmental factors, people essentially vary in their ability to access this infinity of theta.. It may have something to do with awareness of purpose. People who hold a strong, clear purpose in front of them seem to do well and be more successful, seem to be able to overcome great odds, seem to have a higher persistence on a given course then those who don’t, and this appears to hold true no matter what the purpose, no matter how lofty or mundane the purpose is. Anyway, that’s how I reconcile the contrary fact of “theta” (purely qualitative) with “theta endowment” (quantitative).

    All right, now, as re all the emphasis on “power”, personally I think this is a button determined by RCS surveys now used exhaustively in Div 2 promo. I think that when LRH was around, people in general (in the USA anyway) felt themselves to be a lot more in control of their own lives than they do now. I don’t get that LRH harped on “power” bit. The RCS does, though, and IMO its because “power” is a huge button for many today facing an uncertain economy, job scene etc.

    Now, as re “The Responsibility of Leaders”, I’ve never believed that LRH meant for us to take that “pink legs” stuff literally. What indicated to me was that he wanted to make certain points very strongly, and he wanted to pack a punch in doing so, and used writing gimmicks to do this. Personally, I know of no-one who has taken this data in this PL literally, as to do so would have cause definite shock and horror, you know? All that being said, I am now intrigued by your statement that LRH DID HIMSELF indeed take it literally, and I can’t wait for your next book!!!

  159. martyrathbun09

    Tanja would sign anything her lawyer put in front of her.

  160. The sound of crickets…. chirp chirp chirp. It’s quiet out here on the banks of Da Nile.

    I know, I’m being bad. 🙂

    Brian aka Mr. Advocate of Non Violence.

  161. This is the best explanation I have read about the similarities between auditing and other psychological/spiritual techniques, e.g. meditation, mindfulness, psychoanalysis, etc.

    Very insightful. And utter heresy 🙂

  162. Li Po — actually Chogyam Trungpa never was my master. I never met him and while most love his books, I find them obscure and difficult to read. Early books were fine but later books – nearly impossible to me.

    It’s all that “Crazy Wisdom” stuff. I followed his son Sakyong Mipalm Rinpoche devotedly for years, until I found — in part, thanks to this blog, that I was doing AGAIN what I had done in scientology. Faithfully following EVEN THOUGH certain things just didn’t sit right.

    I am now “masterless” — a buddhist without a master. Hmmmm …


  163. It has been said that power is corrupting and addictive. I have sometimes wondered if Ron became addicted to power, same as our politicians.

  164. I never knew Tonja personally so can’t comment on her, however, Ken Urquhart and Nancy Many have also stated LRH’s personal knowledge of GO operations.
    That being said, this blog post about thetan ‘size’ and power is VERY insightful and one of your best!

  165. From our viewpoint he’s not. From his selfish viewpoint he is doing mighty fine! Me, me, meeeee ! 🙂

  166. Power needs to flow back down. That’s the quintessence of the HCOPL “Responsibilities of Leaders”.
    That’s the only reason why his “Kingdom” is shrinking.
    He is the “only one”.

    (The others are stupid DBs at “not-know”, anyways.)

  167. BriefMomentInTime

    In regards to the post on Quality V. Quantity – considering quality (native state) descends into quantity (mest) which becomes more solid from each downward spiral, voila – rocks! I do not see a good future and am losing hope. Seems vital that correct 4 dynamic steps need to be taken. The Ideal Org campaign, to me, gives credence and ammo to the CofS to lobby for change in Washington etc. Yes, the SO is a bitch of a life style but 99% there are persons of good will and should be supported. Most on this blog have old bodies, but remember we were once young, full of piss and keyed out – let them get people on the bridge, out of a 1000 people who get ‘into” Scient only 1-2 may joing the SO. So why “stop” 1000 from getting some basic tech to ‘save” 1 or 2 from perceived SO pitfalls. Just a thought.

  168. And thus we evolve or transpire. In some ways it seems just that simple.
    Ex-GO operatives still plotting. It’s hard not to get goofy on that one.

    .As the host has stated repeatedly, we need to figure out how we can move on up together…

    Ultimately that’s where the vast majority of us will likely be heading…

    Probably not those who are still compulsively plotting, however…

    Letting go is a key.

  169. OMG, Publius. In the last two paragraphs of your post I think you hit upon the answer to this riddle! To me, what you say explains why people become “lopsided” as regards ego and the imbalance of yin and yang.

    LRH explicitly stated that 50% of the gains in Scientology come from training, but the vast majority of Scientologists do very little training, especially as compared to what they do on the processing side of the Bridge. And of those who actually do get some training, few go on to get very much experience in application (rarely even an internship) – which is imperative, IMO.

    As a matter of fact, I too have argued dozens of times that training AND experience, per my observation, is what makes the difference in (1) having a good conceptual understanding of basic Scientology and thus the ability to reconcile the seeming inconsistencies, and (2) the ability to grant beingness as well as having the other attributes and awarenesses you mentioned. Your post gave me an understanding of the Why for the outpoints Marty has been bringing up. Thank you!

  170. You apparently have more data on that score then I do. What exactly would satisfy you here? That there were dirty tricks played against her? That’s well documented elsewhere. The question I’d be interested in is: Who paid her for her “simple journalism”?

  171. martyrathbun09

    If she were paid by some vested interest it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper, easier, less criminal and more effective to use the resources spent on destroying her to document the payment.

  172. This was again, an excellent post. It is definitely quality rather than quantity, in the “nothingness” arena. (Ironically, even significance in the nothingness area can be factually specious, but any volume (quantity) in dealing with “somethingness” is a downright false direction and purpose altogether!)

    I beg to clarify slightly that Scientology does not and can never factually have a position on this line: Only LRH as Source, and you as Source (in duplication and knowingness etc.) can have this position. Unfortunately LRH lost sight of where he was going in all of this despite unmatched brilliance in many areas – he lost his purpose if you will. That needs clarification: what exactly was his purpose in all of this anyway?

    And aligned to this, while many seem to have a viewpoint as to when and where, I specifically date the point of his first “social” failed purpose to 30 July 63; specially the PL entitled Current Planning, . Here are the relevant lines:

    “Finding  exactly who we’re up against on Earth (the American Medical Association) helped.  But finding exactly what each one of us faces and how, in the Between Lives Area, bids for a change of mood. 

    “We’re not now in this for play.  Our personal futures depend on keeping going and making no major flubs.  It isn’t a question of is there something else.   There isn’t.   Nobody can be half in and half out of Scientology.   Scientologists are Scientologists no matter what they do for a living.

    “The prize is regaining self and going free.  The penalty for our failure is condemnation to an eternity of pain and amnesia for ourselves and for our friends and for this planet.
    “If we fail, we’ve had it.  It’s not just a matter of getting killed.  It’s a matter of getting killed and killed and killed life after life forever more.   Even if you have no great reality on this now, you will soon enough.  But probably you already understand it.
    “Those guys up there mean business.   We’ve got to match or better their energy  level and dedication or we lose.
    “We haven’t any time for doubts and maunderings.
    “The next time you hear somebody whining, “Well I just don’t know, whine, whine,”  kick his teeth in.
    “We’re the elite of planet Earth, but that’s only saying we’re the not-quite-gone in the graveyard of the long-gone.
    “Somehow, despite our condition and the degraded environment we’re in, we’ve got to keep the dedication and the guys to carry through no matter what comes.  And carry through.

    “And that’s our future.”
     -L. Ron Hubbard

    I call this very “bleak” PL the Prior-Confusion KSW PL. And besides KSW #1 this is a base-line rote infusion by COB. After all, LRH says kick his teeth in – what’s wrong with a little punching and strangulation!?

    Before this point LRH was majorly into quality. Then first probably came the discovery of O/Ws in 59-60. Creative Processing (mock ups, imagination etc.) was cancelled in May of ’60 as a direct result. Of course people can’t create or as-is – they have too many O/Ws. This then led to more and more introversion and R6 matters and then after the above PL, further and further deeper and deeper into the MASS of the track. 3-5-7 etc. etc. Talk about out Int!

    I suspect that somewhere just prior to 58′ LRH had a terrific loss. Phil Spickler thinks it was the loss of Nibs. Don’t have enough data yet on this, but whatever it was, it completely changed LRH from quality to quantity.
    And that, as they say, was the end of shooting match.

    IMO the only way out of this is to find what you agree with, LRH or wherever; something that truly works for you and gives you YOU.

    After all, there is nothing else. All IS Nothing!

    Go Tao!

  173. I further want to mention that leaving (or even questioning) LRH (or any “source”) one feels they need, is a very difficult thing to do. Because there was and is so much good in SCN, it is quite troubling that possibly not all answers are in fact there.

    But the hard factual truth is: Only you can devine truth and as-is. No one else can do it for you: Not LRH, nobody. It is YOU that has to work it out. SCN started out this way; it just didn’t finish that way, unfortunately.

    You are the Source you need. And the sooner you work this out, the better everything becomes. I know it did for me. And thanks to “early” LRH, the breadcrumbs are definitely there and easy to see if you know where and what to look!


  174. I get you Schorsch

  175. Then why did you post?

  176. Then you agree and approve of her treatment. Thank you Graduated. I like clarity over agreement. Thank you for making it clear to me.

    One the topic of non vilolence. I shall not bring up with you anymore.

    And that is why your church is in flames..

  177. Oh sorry I forgot my new signiture Graduated!

    Brian aka Mr. Advocate of Non Violence.

    Thank you Graduated, I love my new name 🙂

  178. Well, for starters, the concept of ego is not considered to be anything at all in Scientology, not that I ever read. LRH dismissed Freud along the way, and with that dismissal, the concept of ego. He also often dismissed earlier religious materials as having limited merit, but missed the mark completely. I can`t think of a single LRH issue discussing the concept of ego, which is just one part of three parts of the mind in Freud`s model. Even more confusing is that ego is used as an English word to translate Eastern works, and it is just barely accurate as a translation.

    LRH taught that Scientology auditing far surpassed mere enlightenment, taking an individual to heights of spiritual power and ability from which they could never be struck down. Very rarely did he speak in terms of spiritual enlightenment as understood in most religious studies. He spoke in terms of being cause over the dynamics, of being tough, of making things go right as the true test of a thetan, of being powerful, successful and influential. Of getting out in the world and bringing a big win where it counts.

    He described reason as man`s primary weapon and asset. Clears, he said, were free of irrationality and that made them powerful and determined opponents because they could reason better and faster and they didn`t fall prey to restimulation. OTs, well, cause over life. Power on all eight dynamics.

    There is no discussion of compassion, there is no discussion of mercy, and he thoroughly dismissed the idea of nirvana — he said there was no merging the all, so to speak. A thetan was a veritable God, lost in the trap of mind and MEST, degraded down to a shadow of himself. Think in terms of Greek Gods, rather than Buddha.

    It is possible that there was a period when people were interested in enlightenment, mainly because in the mid 1960s Scientology had an enormous influx of flower children, hippies, make love not war people and people interested in human potential and spirituality. They loved the auditing and they brought their values with them. Over time they distanced themselves from the Church as it came under greater and greater influence of people who were seeking power, not enlightenment.

    The Churches marketing reflects the seeking of personal and group power — rocket your way to OT, legends throughout time acknowledge the greater power of the gods, next target launched, shatter suppression, conquer the jungle of life, etc. (I took those from real ads in Church magazines, btw)

    But then the Church wanted to look Churchie, so it put up a very Churchie website and it is there where this notion of enlightenment is advertised, along with the notions of scripture and doctrine, and all of those very spiritual sounding ideas that are NOT reflected in the actual materials of Scientology for the most part. And there is your real bait and switch.

    I wouldn`t be so sure that these thousands of clears you speak of did buy it all lock, stock and barrel. In fact, the statistics show that they didn`t and most of them have left the building or have completely distanced themselves. I believe the ones that remain, that we see in these ridiculous squirrel buster episodes would consider the idea that Scientology was to enlighten beings to be ridiculous. Compassion for SPs — bah!! Buddha — where`s the value in sitting under a tree! And mercy, absolutely not — rewards and penalties apply and downstats need to be handled so they become powerful and productive members of society, not parasites and a burden.

    Your squirrel buster types and SO members undoubtedly got involved so they could be powerful and aggressive and dangerous to their environment and by God they are going to dominate the shit out of everyone around them. And who says most of them are clear anyway — most are not. Most haven`t had much auditing at all.

    Just talk to any ex Sea Org member of the last 20 years and you`ll find out that they do, in fact, fully intend to clear the planet and create a race of powerful thetans who will fight to the end to turn the tides of evil, freeing beings from the pitiful, pathetic state of being a meat body in a rim galaxy dead forever.

    As for rest, with a price tag of half a million or more, the OTs that have made it up the bridge rarely have time to do anything but make money. Low-toned, counter-intending individuals and other fish to fry are just distractions to getting one`s next auditing level and really, they are so low toned that they belong to the better off dead club anyway. Besides sec checks cost a lot of money, best to avoid anything that might come up on a sec check.

  179. Maria – Thank you! That section of the book was incredible. So real, so simple and so enlightened. Now late at night I find this, read that section, and have to say you made my day complete. I shall read the entire book at some later time.

    For those who have not read it – I suggest if you have interest in spirit of quality then you will have some additional realizations, questions, and maybe even some disturbance to your previously held stable datums on the subject. Well worth the read.

  180. Darkest hour

    Budda spoke of Awareness and Equanimity. Taking two wings to fly -avoid crashing. Lose equanimity and you will eventually lose awareness. Practicing equanimity is practice of winning and losing. Not just winning…or losing.

    Big awareness and too little equanimity might be like having a fixed and dedicated stare such as on the faces of some long term staff at non profits or meditation centers dedicated to the improvement and enlightenment of others. To save the quantity they allow or are persuaded to up root or hold off on their own particular lives for the sake of the greater good. This allows a pattern of it not mattering if particular beings are hurt for the win.

    Towards the end of “My Billion Year Contract,” the author comes to prefer the credo “do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” Here is to neither win nor lose but to be grounded and balanced, to share well being (there is no scarcity) and to do no harm.

  181. Hear, hear – and exactly in compliance with PR Series 18, How to Handle Black Propaganda.

  182. There is an HCOB called “Robotism” which spoke of a percentage of human beings being nothing more than animated Robots.
    This was used to humiliate some Sea org members sent to cramming on this HCOB:
    Clay Demo : Why I am a robot needing orders on _____________

  183. It was actually outside violence responded to by perversion of non-violent policies, Brian – a case of stupidly going into the attackers’ valence. If you’re really interested in the whole picture, see

  184. I agree with you about Chogyam Trungpa. However I liked his observations about Spiritual Materialism in our western cultures, and the constant search of “techniques”, yoga, sel-help, new age stuff, etc, in order to magnify his ego and power. That’s pretty well the subject of this post and what scientology is liable to become.

  185. You nailed it !

  186. That’s a fascinating chapter Maria, thanks for the link

  187. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the extaordinarily insightful post Maria.

  188. well said…100% agreed

  189. Now, now, Brian, play fair. Your agenda won’t fly by use of a straw man.

  190. Flo (France)

    I agree ! 🙂

  191. Flo (France)

    I am free 🙂 . It is just important for me to align datas to understand why LRH had so much changed in bad in the 1960s and from what he exactly died. After that I will have a better point of view.

  192. Flo (France)

    Is my english so awful ? LOL !

  193. Graduated, have you done a google search on Paulette Cooper? Maybe you do not know. If you don’t know I am sorry for assuming you do.

    Google evey part of the saga. Google the who, what and where. Really check out all the data.

    Scientology is experiencing the karma it has created.

    Brian aka Mr. Advocate of Non Violence

  194. Marty, I really appreciate this post. It and many of the comments have opened up some files for me to reexamine from a new perspective.

    About power: I think that humanity, in general, is completely unable to conceive of genuine power. Instead, I think we have, for eons, substituted ‘authority’ for power. Symbols I would use to describe power would include; Unity, Love, Joy, Knowing, Compassion and Understanding. Symbols I would use to describe authority would include; Division, Separation, Force, Control, Manipulation, Judgement, Condemnation, Hierarchy, Caste System, Class System.

  195. Yes Li Po — spiritual materialism is the “use” of spiritual things to boost ones ego — i.e.. I’ve got to xyz retreats with xyz guru … etc.

    Sadly his own teachings have been used to create a highly spiritually materialistic organization … quite similar to what scientology has become — ego enhancing rather than ego-vaquishment.


  196. Brian,
    I posted because I am not Buddha and I have flaws.
    It is the message that is important in this case.
    It is a blog and thus a form of communication.

    George M. White

  197. I haven’t been posting much here, because it seems every time I come up with a comment in my head, someone has already stated what was on my mind more articulately than I could have expressed it.

    This post is a great example, Maria.

    How many people get into scientology because they are seeking spiritual enlightenment? How many to be more “powerful?” How many because they are screwed up in their own estimation and they want to get unscrewed? How many because the registrar convinced them they could make more money? How many now were simply born into it and don’t have a clue what else to do?

    Many of my friends don’t get where Marty is going with this blog lately.

    I feel like I’ve finally found some real kindred spirits here, who are moving in the direction I’m moving in and using the tech for what I always assumed it should and could be used for.

  198. martyrathbun09

    I wrote a chapter in an upcoming book entitled ‘everybody’s everything’ exploring this very issue, why did Scientologists come to be involved. I think from the eighties onward, the promotion and introductory routes were geared far more to folks who wanted to ‘get ahead’ in one way or another, as opposed to the sixties and seventies where the appeal was more to the spiritual seeker. I think a lot of those ‘kindred spirits’ came from the earlier era based on what their intents were for the journey in the first place.

  199. Thank you for yours, Marty, and for providing a platform to make it!

  200. Yes, Les, I have been missing your posts. I always like your posts, but more than anything I like your sincerity and your willingness to share insights and integrate. I think you should make your posts even if someone has already said something similar, I think it helps to hear various ideas expressed from different voices — therein lies nuance, and greater depth of understanding.

    Yes, kindred spirits. That is a really great way of saying it!

  201. Back at you, ditto!

  202. Dear Claudio,

    This is a beautiful essay. One that definitely defines the value of the OT levels to the spirit.

    Like you I believe that LRH’s intentions were pure. I believe that he really wanted to help man kind. However, he did not follow the path he showed us. This resulted in him sinking lower and lower spiritually. He started to use just a little bit too much force. Then more, and more. With every failure he sunk a little deeper. Many people were eager to audit him, to bring him back to be the original LRH, but he did not allow it.

    At the end he was so spiritually low that he allowed a bunch of criminals headed by dm to take over his life achievement. He was so low that he got only the words and could no longer see the intentions.

    One can only speculate where we would be today had LRH allowed himself to get to the real OT 8. For sure Co$ would have been in a much better shape. For sure he would have died a happy man. Like he deserved.

  203. I love Phil Spickler and would enjoy listening to him recite names out of the phone book – but this speculation of his has got to be way off the mark. Reminds me of a similar speculation in Reitman’s book to the effect that LRH started going off the rails in 1962 or 1964 (?) because of a negative story in Saturday Evening Post. Give me a break! Regardless of what else you can say about him, LRH was one tough M-F’er and it would surely take a lot more than a single personal loss or a magazine article to do him in mentally.

    Phil is kind of applying pop psychology to LRH – that a schism between father and son was so traumatic that even auditing could not handle it. Harkens back to similar psychobabble about toilet training being the source of all future problems in someone’s life.

    What he’s doing basically is invalidating the tech, by asserting that in all his subsequent auditing, LRH was never able to get past this loss. I’m really surprised; Phil of all people was a master at Book One auditing. He should know better.

    There’s one thing on which I have total certainty based on years of experience – and that is that there is NO trauma or loss that cannot be handled by Dianetics, if properly run.

  204. So LRH had ‘no knowledge’ of the snow white caper? And Tanja signed what her lawyer put in front of her, because, she loved her lawyer? Lol!

    LRH had ‘no knowledge’ of……….(fill in the blank with anything you think Ron would like you to fill it in with). Lol!

    Ron knew.


  205. Marty and others here, I read the post about OT VIII Ed Mooney who died shortly after attesting to OT VIII. I knew him, not intimately, but had drilled with him once and knew his wife etc. The story I and others were told of his death was that he was working out at the gym and told the gym person that “he felt funny” and knew something was wrong and then collapsed. He was rushed to the hospital and they said he died of a brain aneurysm or stroke. Megan Shields said his brain scan looked like oatmeal, the damage was so bad. I was also told that it was hereditary and that his mom had also died the same way. I only bring this up to ask this question: were we all lied to about the circumstances of Ed’s death as a way to hide something? As a way to PR the state of OT VIII? In other words, if he really died in a car accident, did the church leaders feel that was too out PR for someone who had recently attested to OT VIII to have died in a car crash, and so they concocted this other story? It may seem trivial to you that I ask this, but I an seeking truth, and seeking to find all the times we were lied to and PRed about the OT Levels and OTs in general? Was this one of them?

    Also in typing this, another incident came to mind. I had an acquaintenance who attested to OT VIII and within months of coming home, had a stroke. People at the party when they discussed this said, “Boy, she must have had a major PTS scene…” and “boy she must have had a case outness for an OT VIII to have had a stroke..” etc. It was so out reality to them that anything bad could ever happen “to an OT VIII.” Is this a case of the Wizard of Oz exposed? and the Emporer Has No Clothes?

  206. Marty, I think your observation about what happened in the 80s is right on the mark. In the 60s & 70s, most of the people who got into Scientology were of very average means. Many were students for God’s sakes, with little or nothing in the way of assets or even income.

    The route was simple and doable for just about everyone: Comm course $50, then HQS $75 (or maybe $100), then HSDC $500, then Academy levels ($250 per level!) and so on. NOT all that hard to do.

    The point is not the cost, it’s that it was DO-able for the average person. And it was PRACTICAL application all the way up.

    MOST people co-audited all the way up to Power. Free!

    Then came the (INSANE) monthly price increases, along with the complete re-do of the beginning bridge. Because few could afford the REAL courses (listed above, but now insanely expensive), all these mini courses were introduced – many of which dealt with, guess what? How to make more money, how to get along with your spouse better, etc. Mostly insipid stuff.

    I’ve said it before and I’m saying it again: if some evil force out in the world – CIA, FBI, Interpol, whatever Psych organization, had set out to destroy Scientology, they could not have done a better job than the “upper management” of Scientology did to itself.

  207. Brilliant and insightful! Your way of looking at things is quite unique. Keep it up!

  208. gretchen dewire

    Attatchment to ego is a very powerful thing. I dont think even Ron was imune. We must constantly be aware of our own motivations. This blog has been a lifesaver for me. It has opened up channels I thought long since dead. Thanks so much Marty and everyone else here.Gretchen

  209. I see as “positive gain” processes like SOP 8C or 😯 which are designed to train the Thetan to operate. They are not removing anything just showing the Thetan how to and that he can. I believe the real OT levels, not as perverted buy dm are doing exactly that.

  210. martyrathbun09

    Larry. I wrote what I wrote and it wasn’t what you then implied with your further rhetorical questions.

  211. Tango, quality is not enough. If you made one great Clear, you have not made much. You need also quantity.

  212. The church tends to ignore or not-is death or illness. Maybe because it is associated with PTSness and PTS people have to handle their condition.

    I think its pretty obvious that LRH thought people would die. Don`t forget that the motto of the Sea Org is: We Come Back.

    I notice a tremendous focus on the health of the body as a measure of OTness.

    But the question is, does Cause over Life = Cause over MEST?

    The end phenomenon of Dianetics is a well and happy human being. How long does that condition have to persist for it to be the end phenomenon?

    Is there an end phenomenon on the grade chart at any point that says: Now has an immortal BODY?

    How about power on all eight dynamics? Would this be the same for you as it is for me? I really doubt it.

    What if the OT has no interest in remaining associated with a body at all? After all this is the goal of nirvana, enlightenment and many other ascension goals in most of the major religions — no longer having to come back at all, free from the karmic wheel of reincarnation. It seems to me that the body would die if the OT decided the game was over and no longer wished to participate. It might not be a lose. It might be a win. It might even be the OTs original goal.

    Do not stand at my grave and cry
    I am not here I did not die

    Just sayin`

  213. Late to game, but these 2 references, ALTER-IS AND DEGRADED BEINGS and The Responsibilities of Leaders, had during my time “in” major impact on my views. They were as OT revolutionary as Science of Survival.

    We naturally love leaders, good leaders, and along with leprosy an evil degraded being caused upon himself to keep others away, the seriousness KSW#1 moved into, and lets not forget further definitions of power, etc., it became literally impossible to consider otherwise.

    Clearly there are beings more degraded than others, just look at some of the by-products of alcohol and drugs, or just valences and case.

    I tried to and did look around these imposed views, that you couldn’t just have a friend, a drinking or hunting buddy or family member be themselves, unless they were at least somewhat brought around. I wasn’t always successful and burned many a bridge because of these mighty-than-thou views.

    While I can still find a lot of truth in these references, they are so hard hitting I wonder if LRH knew just how hard? If you can’t think with it for yourself is it useful data?

  214. Yes Tony, this is really good point about boy scouts. He also grew up in the era of the service clubs — the Lions, the Elks, the Rotaries, the Optimists, etc. etc. etc. Every one of these groups had regalia, uniforms, badges, mottos, creeds, codes, rituals, ranks, protocol and so on.

    These civic groups were once a powerful, very powerful element in society. Everyone belonged to a civic group if they wanted to be thought to be a responsible member of society. The memberships of most of these groups have been dive bombing for the last 20 years. There are Elks clubs with 2 members left in them, Lions Clubs with a few oldsters still hoping to get new membership. And boy and girl scouts? Membership are WAAAYY down.

    The newer generations seem to regard uniforms and regalia as coming from the age of the dinosaur. Not much interest in all the pomp and circumstance of the earlier generations. And secret handshakes? Oh, give me a break! That`s so lame!

  215. “LRH was one tough M-F’er and it would surely take a lot more than a single personal loss or a magazine article to do him in mentally.”

    You know, Publius, it’s really hard trying to make a case for anything in Scn or LRH without it sounding like No True Scotsman. Nevertheless, fools rush in where wise men fear to tread… So here I go. 🙂

    Thinking with Scn principles, as well as I understand them, I would extrapolate from Phil Spickler’s talk that LRH mocked up a ser fac as a result of the secondary and dramatized it from there on out. Phil was there, and what he describes in terms of the changes he observed in LRH after that episode would seem to support the idea of a ser fac – much better than an unhandled secondary interpretation (whether his or yours) as ser facs are much harder to “dig up” and handle.

    Otto Roos wrote a long, detailed account of what occurred in Scn from the 50’s to the 80’s, and much of it includes his up-close observations and a lot of personal contact with LRH. I haven’t read the whole thing but what I have read supports my idea about a ser fac. The upshot of Otto’s story (written in 1984, before LRH died) and what he concludes from his observations is this:

    “Conclusion: LRH has more Out Tech on his case than ten people combined. He gave us a technology towards Immortality, but he denied himself the only thing which could have saved him: Auditing.”

  216. “It fairly makes one wonder whether somewhere along the line Scientology lost sight of its own purpose and the quality of life it was created to restore.”
    No question, but I wouldn’t say particularly so after his death, I would say more so in the 60’s with the advent of heavy ethics, and that set up Miscavige’s play.

    I’ll share some of a recent comm from an old wise one who was with Hubbard in the 50’s: “… Like your self, it was ” from here to eternity,” with plenty of Life in between. In retrospect, and because of 20/20 hindsight, I wouldn’t change a bit of my ability to be dumb. I’ve come to figure, what the hell, I’m in no rush to reach forever.”

  217. There is no such thing as artificial computer intelligence. All I-Robots form the past had beings as operator. At least by my knowledge. In the future operators are welcome. If no one wants this job we find some. First steps of the training are: seeing reality through screens (flat tv), having nothing against endless doing the same all day in and out (trained by repeats in tv day in and day out), able to interface with computers (in final stage of developement on earth).

  218. I see your point. But just to clarify what I was trying to say: Indeed from the viewpoint of “I didn’t have the ability before and now someone showed me how to it” is a positive gain.

    There is a different viewpoint I came to at OT II. Imagine a large curtain like the ones in a theater which can lifted in various increments by several independent strings. Imagine that this curtain separates you from your true ability to view and operate. Without SC or other spiritual exercises (in our ‘WOG’ state if you will) we tend to have that curtain lifted up a bit here and there so we can peak/reach through it at certain places. As we progress up the bridge we lift that curtain up more and more until we can see and operate freely.

    Yes one could come up to us and say: “hey if you lift the curtain here you will see the piano on the stage”, “and you might even be able to reach through the curtain to play it a bit”. But essentially it all boils down to lifting the curtain all the way through.

    Therefore there are different ways to go about it:
    1. Just simply work on lifting the curtain and let the individual figure out for themselves what it is they can do now that they couldn’t before.
    2. You lift the curtain a certain spots (with the help of the tech) and do this or that through your ‘new’ ability as suggested by the tech.

    There are pros and cons to both approaches:
    #2 has the drawback that you may be influenced by the guidance and think that the now lifted part of the curtain is for the purpose of being able to do X or Y through it. And so you do X or Y and may not see W and Z that you could also be doing. So naturally you may form the idea that that is what that lifted spot of the curtain is for.

    #1. Has the drawback that if no one shows you what you can do now after you have lifted the curtain you may not know what to do with it. What is it for. What is the ability I’m supposed to have now?

    Well that’s where I think lies the key difference.
    If you do approach #1 and get the idea of finding for yourself how and what you can do now that you couldn’t before then you will grow your own ability to find the usefulness of all this new enlightenment. And then you will discover W and Z for sure also.

    #1 is superior IMO but I think LRH found that #2 is necessary for many people as they did not have the same enthusiasm to begin with to discover on their own as he did. So he felt he had to do #2. Lift the curtain and show this is what you can do now. The advantage of #2 is that you can get people to do things they wouldn’t normally figure out on their own.

    I see a struggle LRH had to go through as he was trying to find the way to get uniform results for all. Doing #1 first then having to do #2 also. Then sprinkle it all over with a myriad of policies as he found that some people don’t even want to learn how to play the piano. To me the policy letters are the: “Hey that’s not what you suppose to do with that” originations of LRH. 🙂

    (playing the piano of course is metaphorical)

    This is of course just my view and how I perceive spiritual enhancement and thus might not be true for others.

  219. I don’t think that LRH felt any particular need to comment on the (Freudian or Buddhist or else) concept of Ego.

    He had “Self”, as in There can be love for self, and “I” as to who is running the show.

  220. LRH himself died of a stroke, for Pete’s sake. Considering all of the things that can go wrong with a body, it’s something of a miracle that a few of them last 100 years or more. But none of them last forever, no matter what the case state of the owner. Anyone who thinks an OT VIII’s body is immune to failure has blinders on as big as those of the Sioux Ghost Dancers who thought their sacred shirts would shield them from the White Man’s bullets.

  221. martyrathbun09

    Who believe he is running the show…all the way to the vaunted state of hallucinatory cause.

  222. martyrathbun09

    If folks spent as much time figuring themselves out as assaying to figure LRH out, why, they’d have figured themselves out long since.

  223. Marcel Wenger

    Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’ that lost sight of their own very nature by introduction of the confusion of ‘quantity’ into the equation?

    Or does Scientology address beings as ‘quantities’ that need to have some
    quantity added to them to become sufficiently big and powerful?

    The answer in my opinion , is, that Scientology addresses beings as qualities. (Thetans, statics).
    The game is to free them with auditing and restore their native state and ability. It is the belief of our religion that beings are basically good, the more they become themselves, the better they become. Stripped of their “quantities of aberrations” they become naturally ethical. Any power gained is more power gained to better help others.

    Marcel Wenger

  224. I see your point. I am not sure if you have done the Philadelphia Doctoral Course. Imagine the following, you never drove bicycle. This is an ability you never had. You decide to acquire that ability so you borrow bicycle, and you start trying. You go at it, until finally you get it. This is a positive gain. No case is involved. No curtained to lift, just an ability gained. When I did the PDC, I actually followed the sessions. Those were simply drills in my own universe. No case gain involved, no past involved. It seemed like I gained some abilities. Call them OT abilities if you wish. One was the ability to always reach my target, no matter the obstacles. These abilities were even noticed and commented on by others (non Scientologists).

    There you have pure positive gain.

  225. Come to think of Les, the reasons for getting into Scientology can be as varied as whatever ruin might be found on the dissem drill or OCA. You find the ruin, then say emphatically: Scientology can handle that!

    You know, the new Dissemination Course was issued in 1986. Perhaps that course has a bearing on the state of affairs that has developed and how people think they ought to behave when being a Scientologist.

    For example: Dissemination Drill 15 – Handling Attacks by Staying in Control. Purpose: To teach a Scientologist how to skillfully handle attacks and objections to one’s talking about Dianetics and Scientology, by shifting the subject or calmly attacking back.

    The first time I ever heard of this drill was in 1986 on that course.

  226. Hey Publius – I think this is a contradiction in Scientology. From my perspective, all beings have the capability and the right to be free and do better. I know that Ron would not have put his whole life into Scientology if he didn’t believe that either – but, there is undeniably the other side of the coin – DBs, the GE, the concept of “minions” who are incapable of going OT. It is definitely there as a concept in the world-view of Ron’s anyway.

  227. Darkest Hour: Could you please show me the text you are referring to?

    The 2 wings are considered in everything I’ve ever read as:

    Wisdom and compassion.

    And both are needed to attain enlightenment.

    Both different concepts than awareness and equanimity.

    Awareness is something that should be present WITH wisdom and compassion. Equanimity is the ability to not “take sides” – in it’s easiest form.

    Buddha did talk a bunch about being aware of being aware. As did LRH.

    But circling back to Maria’s excellent post above — he didn’t talk about compassion and really pushed hard for high powered results and people.

    As fond as I am personally of the author of “My Billion Year Contract” quoting her to explain buddhist terms OR scientology — well — doesn’t exactly work for me.

  228. LOL

    Well, that’s because folks are more interested in helping the other guy out than themselves. Just like LRH said. 🙂

    Seriously, though, I imagine you too have tried to figure out why LRH made such an about-face. Maybe you’ve already expressed your idea about that and I missed it, but with all your training and experience in so many spheres I would be very interested to know. Could you please repeat it.

  229. Karen. by the way, thank you for the information about the new You Tube channel you created. Check your e-mail for my acknowledgement! 🙂 I know I will be watching. 🙂

  230. Maria. Thank you. Couldn’t agree more, line for line. Thanks.

  231. I’m reading Maria’s very insightful post. She writes:” There is no discussion of compassion, there is no discussion of mercy, and he (LRH) thoroughly dismissed the idea of nirvana — he said there was no merging the all, so to speak. A thetan was a veritable God, lost in the trap of mind and MEST, degraded down to a shadow of himself. Think in terms of Greek Gods, rather than Buddha…. He spoke in terms of being cause over the dynamics, of being tough, of making things go right as the true test of a thetan, of being powerful, successful and influential. Of getting out in the world and bringing a big win where it counts. He described reason as man`s primary weapon and asset.”

    I find this post extremely helpful to understand Scientology. What Maria writes also this shows, in my view how a Scientologist can become more complete, more whole: by embracing the other side of a person that Scientology apparently does not address. This seems to include embracing the heart, over reason; choosing love over toughness; acceptance over making things go right; fostering advocating inclusion over separation; experiencing a successful life regardless of circumstances rather than success just as defined by external circumstances that are aligned with a person’s wishes.

    I come from a very different spiritual background where emphasis is right where it does not seem to be in Scientology: on the heart, accepting, surrendering, feeling, beauty, love. This was a very “Yin” approach. Just the opposite of Scientology. Reading Maria’s post, I see the great benefits to integrate Scientology with what other more heart/love/feeling/-focused approaches. Each approach helps carve one more facet in the diamond in our soul, and makes us become a more complete and whole person.

    Love to all.

  232. Well observed. From my point of view it goes deeper, in regard to the average adherents of scientology doctrine. Namely, when an individual (generally under-educated and naive at scientology introduction) is told they have ‘no ego’ (by way of inference) the field for uncontainable selfishness is let loose. And in one way or another (given enough time) all hell breaks loose for them. Even for the otherwise pre-pleasant natured amongst them. With such stories approaching the status of legend. From psychotic breaks, to murders, to million dollar frauds, to covering up sexual abuse of children, to death and dying via unchecked cancers and other untreated physical illnesses, to family destruction, to financial devastation, and the list goes on and on. Happening to the cream of the crop, no less.

    Don’t get me wrong, I see enormous value in basic auditing. But such a process does open a good majority of its practitioners to susceptibility to persuasion regarding their further spiritual development. Which is the ‘why’ from my point of view, so many church scientologist’s (staff and OSA) have compromised, if not fully abandoned, their previous code of morals, in favor of the ‘Power-Seeking’ promises of ‘get up the bridge, quickly’ mantra. To wit: for these, ‘ego’ is just a meaningless word that Freud mistakenly imagined into being.

    It is not. It is a word that conveys the concept of an individuals primary sense of self, and the resulting director of ones self expression in the world. It is not the person. It is the psychological mechanism by which the person identifies themselves relative to others and to their environment.

    In sum, the ego is a beautiful and wonderful servant (of the self) and a cruel and horrible master (of the same).

    Restated: what the thetan is to the static, the ego is to the thetan. Thus we have relative qualities of being in expression.


  233. Joe Pendleton

    Jane, you may be talking about Mary (Rezzonico) Benepe, a very nice being and longtime staff member and much loved, who died of a stroke after OT8 in her early/mid 60s. From my own viewpoint, a desired result from the upper levels wouldn’t be for the body never to die (OBVIOUSLY it is going to die per prior agreement, of course the hope was was that it could at least last happily and healthily into the late 70s or early 80s and one could just kind of “wear out” and die suddenly rather than a painful cancer death) – but to cheerfully NOT CARE about the whole life and death cycle. That would be the goal, right? That one could just cheerfully let go of his body and either go into a new one OR NOT, all at full perception and cause. In other words, be free of the life and death cycle as not one that one has to be the effect of any more. That would certainly be MY goal. I never realized that goal, but then again I never went all the way in auditing either, so maybe it was right there and I just didn’t take advantage of it.

  234. gretchen dewire

    I had an auditor once who had an accident with a shopping cart and hurt her arm. She was ot8. She had to go to flag to get it handled. I thought at the time it was wierd all around . First that her arm refused to heal and second, what a drag to have to spend all that money to go to flag for such a simple thing. Our org was so understaffed my auditing ended there so I went to flag, but that is a long story and why I left the church.

  235. Wow, Maria, that’s brilliant! “Does cause over life = cause over MEST?”
    Thank you for making that distinction.

  236. That might be hard as 95 to 97 % is stimulus-response or we would die or go mad. But the beauty is in the 5 % that we can make progress in. You might like Anonymous who disregards any convention and than thinks about it.

    “Hubbard defined a Clear as “an unrepressed and self-determined being” who is no longer subject to stimulus-response reactive thought processes.”

  237. The Squirrel Busters? They are like any other idiot moron that walks the street going up to people getting loud in faces and pointing fingers and making accusations. In they end, they always get what they deserve. Call it fate, call it Karma, call it ego problems. 🙂 There’s old saying “if you break a window you get broken glass!” 🙂

  238. I’ve seen what you might call fleeting F/Ns. For what I saw, they were usually a precursor to a coming full F/N. Ultimately it’s not about what the needle is doing quantitatively, but what the PC is doing qualitatively.

    That’s the point I’m making: a focus on the e-meter and how many swings an F/N has (or other characteristics) is quantitative, and the quantitative somehow got taken as senior to the qualitative — which is how the PC is doing — cognition? very good indicators? Etc.

    An F/N without the qualitative things going on with the PC is nothing. Qualitative data are senior in this case. The e-meter simply reflects what is happening in the PC in a change of emotional state, cognition, and release of charge. That’s how I look at it, anyway.

  239. Maria, Your essay is spot on. I loved your distinction between “cause over life” is not “cause over mest.” That’s for sure. I only asked about Ed Mooney, the OT VIII who died because I wondered if I’d been lied to about how he died as a way to not-is the truth of his death because it was considered “out PR”. Does anyone know the real truth to how Ed died? Karen Jenzch de la Carrier told me recently that she has had many many recent OT VIIIs come to her in trouble and some even come to her doorstep directly from their Freewinds trip where they just attested toOT VIII. Something is amiss in that level.

  240. Ego is the pseudo self, not the essential person falsely considering itself to be an ego. Thetan or soul, constructs ego unkowingly due to ignorance of it’s true nature. Out of the limited information supplied by the five senses and stored in the mind as the “I”, the soul becomes totally identified with it.

    I am born in a male body therefore I am a man. I go to school and become a doctor and now I am a doctor. I am in the hospital on my death bed therefore soon I will be no more. Or I am a Scientologist the most advanced human being anywhere.

    When the soul identifies itself only with limited body information and as well as the mind that stores that limited information, it considers itself to be the ego.

    But when the mind turns within to directly learn of it’s own true nature as spirit, those experiences add a new dimension to the souls understanding of self. But the ego is still in existence only it is spiritualized.

    The Masters describe it thusly:

    When the individualized soul dissolves itself (not obliterate mind you like some doctrines falsely teach) into the Supreme Being, God, Static etc, then the individual self merges into a unified field of all life.

    If you throw a salt statue of person into the ocean, the statue dissolve and becomes one with the ocean, but the essesial qualities of that salt stature are eternally existent in the ocean

    Also the Masters say, the soul is incased in three bodies: the physical/astral/causal. The physical body is obvious to us all. The astral body is the energy/theta body that we still have when we are out of the physical. The causal body is the body a thought.

    The soul is none of these essentially. These are vehicles the soul uses. But in the ignorant state the soul identifies with these and looses it’s true identity as ever existing, ever conscious, ever joyful and totally uncondition Theta.

    As we are incased in three bodies, so the Supreme Being is incased in three qualities of universes. The physical cosmos, the astral cosmos and the causal cosmos. We all know the physical cosmos and only hint at the astral as causal. The astral cosmos is the one most people identify as heaven. The astral cosmos is not circimscribed by the limitations of the physical. No disease, wars and infinitely more beautiful. And when that life is done it is back to earth until we learn our lessons of not being identified with the earth karma and ego of “being” a body.

    When all three are transcended through wisdom born of meditation and the essential nature of pure consciousness is realized, the ego is said to be annihilated and Self Realization, Nirvana, Total Freedom, Satori, God Realization is realized.

    This is the goal of life. Whether we agree with it or not. This is what true religion’s goal is.

  241. Hear, hear. “We are salvaging beings, not bodies.”

  242. + 1

  243. A brilliant description of the current groupthink culture, Maria. Well said.

    It begs the question: What IS “enlightenment”? The Eastern concept of reaching a state of “nirvana” consciousness with the objective of transcending the physical universe and breaking the cycle of birth, death and amnesia is perceived by the West as, essentially, an attempt to blow from the abysmal conditions in which much of the East continues to exist – an abdication of responsibility and thus “theetie weetie”. Overlay that with a pantheon of golden idols (most of which merely represent universal concepts in Buddhism and the Tao Te Ching) and now-we’re-supposed-to ritual additives that have lost most of the meaning over time, and Eastern religions get dismissed out of hand as primitive, unscientific, superstitious nonsense. That’s anathema to the Western mindset.

    So, how do you market enlightenment to the West?

    You made a very astute observation with respect to LRH positioning the results of auditing as something that far surpasses mere enlightenment in delivering spiritual power and ability from which one could never be struck down (provided one is also trained, I might add). After all, one can reach the state of Bodhi simply by going exterior, and better than nirvana consciousness by going Clear, and in weeks or months instead of lifetimes, right? But, to the Western mind, what the hell good is just knowing that you’re an immortal spiritual being with revitalized capabilities? “That might be fine with those Asian dudes who just want to sit blissfully on a mountain top or climb ropes or charm snakes and not-is everything, but what can *I* actually DO and HAVE from it? I want to make holes, not just buy a drill! Hell, man, I’ve got a life to manage and wrongs to right. What have you got on the shelf for that? What, no pills?? And I have to pay for it AND study?? Fuck, man – okay, I’ll let somebody do the auditing thingy to me at least and see if results meet my hidden standards.”

    Indeed, Scientology was designed to surpass enlightenment (Book One Clear) and achieve a state of Operating Thetan – one with adequate spiritual “power” and knowledge to as-is actualities and create desired realities by postulate. Those who have personally experienced that know that it does contain that potential. What you do with those potentialities is left up to you as a free being. But it’s when those potentialities are perverted for the nullification and domination of others that things go into the shitter, and it’s the surest way of losing them.

    But I must demur on “no discussion of compassion or mercy” concept. I think there is adequate material to support the fact that was included – Auditors Code, Code of a Scientologist, What is Greatness, ARC et al, even in the Ethics and Justice Codes. But when one is operating on a MEST definition of “power” (i.e. the ability to generate force), all of that material just gets in the way and gets not-ised. Those are the conditions under which judgmentalism, labeling, nullification, domination, money-motivation, superiority, covering your ass, group over individual, bait and switch, etc. and no results occur.

  244. + 1 Hear, hear.

  245. What you outlined is indeed the old paradigm and the one that appealed to society in LRH’s time. Watch some of the old new reels – the propaganda showed heroes as larger than life, their inventions and accomplishments positioned as monumental breakthroughs for “progress”, their characters flawless, their enemies – whether Fascists or just time and distance or Nature – were roundly defeated with daring, skill and aplomb. The world was united and uniformed in cause of defeating evil. The distinction between “black hats” and “white hats” was unequivocal – even in the movies. America, a beacon of truth, justice and freedom lighting the way for the rest of the world. The President was honored, respected and obeyed and to criticize too vehemently smacked of disloyalty to the nation. And anyone of any stature held rank in something or another as well as awards of merit. Those were hallmarks of progress and civilization in LRH’s times. Is it really any wonder as to why he wouldn’t have naturally incorporated them into Scientology?

    But the paradigm of belonging and rank has long since shifted and other affectations have filled the vacuum. Now the uniform is designer blue jeans, $300 neon sneakers, a corporate logo-emblazoned T-shirt, a peaked cap with labels still in tack appropriately turned to one side in defiance of conventionality and subliminal hip-hop brotherhood, and an iPhone. The new solidarity is in egalitarian globalization united against the evil forces of climate change with a leader of cosmopolitan DNA and Ivy League certification at the helm. Rank is determined by placement on Billboard, number of magazine covers made, number of Facebook connections, P/E value of your IPO, and/or the size and quality of your entourage. The “secret handshakes” have been replaced by ever more complex fist pump rituals (see

    The more things change, the more they stay the same – or lamer.

  246. Karma shmarma. The idiots handling the attacks violated standard non-violent procedure and reciprocated with Black Propaganda instead, reaping the whirlwind by recoil and thus opening the door to a successful fifth column action. That’s the simplicity of it.

  247. WOW!!! I remember listening to a tape and Ron said “There are different races of Thetans”.

    I said what?? Theta is a static!!

    So is there is another level of beingness?

    A level between Body and Me…

    Then the word Thetan must change.

    I really thought I was the only one that saw this.

  248. OMG! You`re right! Fist pump rituals! LOL!

    But I see you got my point anyway, shift happens and fashion marches on.

  249. Maria, you stated, The church tends to ignore or not-is death or illness. would you say the church also ignores the Sea Org Creed, We come back, because as far as I’ve read NO ONE has come back that was in the Sea Org.. Did LRh say he was coming back? If so, shouldn’t he return at this pivotal moment in COS history. It has been 29 years since his death. Not being snarky, really curious about that line of thought…

  250. Essentially the globe split into two separate directions evolution wise. The east developed inner technology and the west developed outer technology. Both have been unbalanced. BTW Graduated, Columbus was seeking what? Greece? Europe? France? Norway? He was seeking India. Why was he seeking India? Because India was a powerful rich cultural center. Your prejudiced view of the east is just that, biased.

    What is happening now on the planet is an exchange of those values. In America, as we speak, the Yoga accessory market is 6 billion dollars a year.

    Meditation is taught in hospitals, in cancer wards. Yoga postures are taught in hospitals, meditation is taught in some charter schools and studies have found higher grades and less student violence. Pranayama, yoga breathing excersizes, are taught to people suffering from stress.

    Seinfeld, Paul McCartney, Ringo, Scorsese, Eastwood, Degeneras all meditators and the list goes on and on.

    Somehow, Graduated, your biased views come from Ron himself that denigrated practices other than his own.

    And the complete and utter success of Yoga Science in the west is testimony to it’s technology of transcendence and workability.

    For all of the scientific sophistry that Scientology claims to have mastered, it is perceived by society as a dangerous cult.

    Please tell me how that is more evolved than the impoverished ignorant peasant rubes you dismiss as the east?

    Sophistry: plausible but fallacious argumentation.

  251. And don`t forget how bombastic the news was back in the 50s and 60s! I remember the big AM versus FM radio schism in the late 60s. You were cool if you listened to FM, and the announcers were laid back and real… AM was bombastic bubble gum commercialism in comparison. I think the historians call this the counter-culture movement, then disco came along and hey, don`t forget the ever so fashionable David Bowie and the Talking Heads! LOL!

  252. I only bring up these celebrities in order to compare. Think of the present Scientology celebs and compare them to these meditating celebs. There is no comparison in quality.

    If results are king in the philosphy of science, and not just egotistical rants of superiority: then come to your own conclusion.

    That which was relegated to superstition and rubishness by Ron because of his ego needs to be perceived as superior, is winning hands down in the market place of spiritual thought on this planet.

    Those individuals expessing Scientology superiority over others are like those business men still having hope for the Edsel.

    There is a place for Scientology processes in the coalition of diverse paths. But dude and dudettes, it is not top of food chain at this time. It is an embaressment to itself. And Graduated’s view of the east is testimony of that elitistism. Just because you have been convinced something is true, does not make it so.

  253. After reading a couple of comments, I suggest all or at least some read or reread the Scientology Axioms, the Factors and the Q’s.

    Understand ARC and KRC and the Tone Scale.

    Scientology explains all, you can not use WOG terms to explain Scientology.

    Not that the folks here are not knowledgeable, but you really have to go to source. I suggest buying Scientology 0-8

  254. I love the great discussions on this blog!

    Graduated, you said: But I must demur on “no discussion of compassion or mercy” concept. I think there is adequate material to support the fact that was included – Auditors Code, Code of a Scientologist, What is Greatness, ARC et al, even in the Ethics and Justice Codes.

    Indeed, such materials exist, but in my own experience, they are given little or no value or importance in the overall scheme of Scientology. And it isn`t just MEST power we are talking about here, we are talking about powerful thetans, power on all eight dynamics, power at the top of the ethics conditions. The PDC talks endlessly about powers of thetans. Most of the materials do.

    I have to say, I was surprised to read on one of Marty`s recent posts: “Apparently, Scientology instills the firm belief that there are people worthy of the label ‘enemy’, and that such people must be depowered and dispensed with, or in some cases made to be and act in an acceptable way. I’m sure someone will cite to What Is Greatness?, originally published as a magazine article in March 1966, to stop this train of thought. In that case, someone else can just as easily cite HCO PL The Responsibilities of Leaders, issued as policy less than a year later, which justifies murder provided it is carried out stealthily against the enemy of a worthy enough power.“

    Yes the auditor`s code exists. Unfortunately, the auditor`s code is instantly nullified by the phrase: I`m not auditing you. There is little discussion of the importance of applying the auditor`s code outside of sessions, except perhaps in the book Notes on the Lectures, which has been canceled and consigned to the trash heap by current management.

    As far as I am concerned, the Code of a Scientologist has little to do with compassion or mercy and everything to do with enhancing and protecting the power and reputation of Scientology.

    As Marty so succinctly pointed out, Scientology is very YANG and no matter which way you slice it, its all over the attitudes and presentations that LRH made during the course of its evolution.

    I will cite one major exception, and oddly enough it was issued shortly before he died, and that is The Way to Happiness.

    The precepts in this booklet are factually selectively ignored by Scientologists and by the Church, yet handed out by the millions. I can only surmise that since it isn`t an HCOB or HCO PL or really even a book about Scientology, the viewpoint is that it doesn`t really count or it is just a PR tool.

  255. It seemed to me that LRH mellowed in the period from 1978 to 1980 with the approach of the Ethics Specialist Course and the approach to Ethics used in the Pro Trs Pilot at Flag. Super Power was seemingly intended to de-oppress staff. That was abruptly terminated by WDC and Heavy Ethics went in again. It was as if LRH were finally realizing the errors of the power orientation and was shifting but many had a vested interest in maintaing their personal elitist SS and fought to remove LRH from the lines before he made things better in a way that would negate their plans.

  256. Thank you George

  257. That`s a really good way of looking at all this Paul. Thank you for that!

  258. Graduated, how is destroy them utterly being non standard? That was standard, in writing, by Ron. And that is really the simplicity of it.

  259. It became a high crime in the 80s for missions to audit OTs. Back in the old days before the mission holders SRA “conference” many OTs would get good service on their OT reviews locally. There was a time when one could do an assist without C/S approval.

  260. Hello, I like this subject. For me there are no power/weak nor big/small thetans. That sounds like an is-ness –like we would add MESTy qualities to the being. I see thetans as potential that according their ‘beliefs’ (considerations) can create force and space and this and that. Some allow themselves to create more than others allow themselves. But that can change anytime, as they ‘change their mind’. And in any case, it takes a great amount of ability to create one’s chains in the first place. 🙂

  261. That`s very insightful Larry.

    Perhaps what you say could be restated as: the ego is a work of art, a crafted mode, an artifice that is composed and presented to others.

    In the last few years, the human potential movement has been focusing more and more on what they call character building. The idea is that one should deliberately choose and build character out of ones values, virtues, and personality.

    This does seem to be a neglected concept in Scientology. Auditing certainly can be seen to strip self down to the very essence of being. Then the individual has to create newly and might not notice at all that new concepts of how to be, who to be, and what to be have to be deliberately chosen and adopted. Maybe the default is picking up whatever ideas are offered along the way, and if you are studying Scientology, this may very well be character elements extolled by LRH or other Church members, elements that were never really inspected by the individual before adopting them.

    This may also be why Buddha taught the eight-fold path, which certainly seems to be a form of character development.

  262. I love this write-up Brian. I hope you are right.

  263. …Nevertheless, I do see the liberation of a thetan’s potential as an important thing. Not to become powerful or some other adjective, but to potentialy be able to cause any effect. That’s how I see it. I think SCN once had the potential to do that (see SCN 8-8008), but I see that people no longer think that it can be done. I’m not sure how this has become like that. But I would like that ‘spirit’ to return. I think ‘realism’ has nothing to do with SCN, as this ‘real’ world, is not our home –according to Ron. 🙂

  264. To expand on Marias fine posts, I agree that the corporate Scns have a hidden standard re OT’s and especially OT VIII’s, and one of the many hidden standards are that any body problem, illness, accident, even overweightness, and death itself are very bad “Out-PR” things “for an OT VIII” to have. I have heard other Scns practically assert that an OT VIII walks on water. I have heard the most amazing ‘explanations’ and ‘PR statements” to try to lessen or not-is something considered non-optimum happening to an OT, all in an effort to keep the masses believing, keep them reaching, and keep them paying tons of money for the illusive State of OT. So I suspect that the two different stories of Ed Mooney’s death was just a cover-up to try to preserve PR for the state of OT VIII. And I did know of Mary Rez (RIP). I don’t think she causatively decided to drop the body as she wanted to do OT IX and X, which we were told was all ready to roll out “as soon as all Orgs make it to St Hill size”. (What a lie that was!)

    So I don’t think you can hold the state of the body or collision with mest as a scale of OTness or lack thereof. OT was for spiritual and thetan and static things and not mest things. And if one is sick or fat etc, there is ethics too. Tech and Admin and Ethics are the three-legged stool that supports it all. If a person is eating themselves to death, self-medicating themselves with harmful medicines, not taking care of the body, has an unhandled PTS situation, etc, the body will deteriorate as mest does, and will do so much faster than if you were taking care of it. So no amount of OT mojo will take the place of having one’s ethics in on eating and exercising and getting tune-ups on the body at intervals. But having said that, I have seen miracles of things curing when the spirit is addressed with Scn applied correctly.

  265. gretchen dewire

    You know , reading and studying all these ways to freedom or enlightenment or whatever you want to call them has actually helped me understand scientology better than I did when I just studied scientology. Go figure

  266. Differentiation will set you free! It is the way out!

  267. How can an instruction to kill be seen as a metaphor or up for interpretation when Ron was the king of words? He never said, “don’t take this literally.” but he did say “if it isn’t in writing then it isn’t true.”

    It is my opinion that those who think it is a metaphor are in denial. And if he is instructing people to do violence to protect him, isn’t it obvious that he would do the same protect himself?

    It is too much for some, to cognize, that the one person who you believed to be the Buddha and savior if humanity was capable of violent cruelty against critics. So Simon Bolivar becomes a metaphor to keep the cognitive dissconnect from shattering faith. A faith that was supposed to be a science.

  268. I have read that LRH’s signitures were on the Operation Freekout ops. This was revealed in court in which Paulette was paid to go away.

  269. Haven’t done Philadelphia Doctoral Course. I’ve only done L’s and finished OT IV. Very good analogy. I do see your point and get the concept of gain only no case removal. I just never seen that yet from my perspective. To stay with your analogy this is how I see it: here let’s get these nasty metal leg braces off your legs (which would have got tangled and caught with the bike if the person ever tried to ride) and now try riding a bicycle.

    Just my opinion.

  270. Ed died in a car crash and he took some others with him. Everybody was lied to. The Sea Org staff even lied to Sea Org staff. Yes, it was considered out P.R.. It was covered up and the sad things is, needless to say the memorial service was NOT. This was a guy who had friends and selectees all over the planet. He didn’t even get a decent memorial service because nobody was supposed to mention the incident. He died in dishonor because the way he died was “out P.R.”.

    However, Richard, Flag C/S, wrote that Ed reinvented himself in a Scientology family still itsaing his BPC about the incident and was handled. So apparently he did return with recall, and concerned about his former family.

  271. martyrathbun09


  272. martyrathbun09

    You are a skilled dramatist.

  273. To consider myself an OT, hanging onto and nursing a body would not be part of the package. I don’t want to be around a body I don’t have ARC with. What about that? How can you force someone to have ARC for a body just so it looks good for the Church?

    So what if people die? Maybe they want a vacation. There is a vacancy right now at Buckingham Palace. Will and Kate are building a nursery!

    There is some weird taboo about checking out in every circle. It is considered dishonorable to drop it, a crime, unless you can evidence that you had absolutely nothing to do with it and it could not be helped.

    Unless you lay around and moan and “fight it” and permit the hospitals to bleed your insurance company.

    There are socially accepted methods to depart. Otherwise it is taken as a “fuck you”. In Scientology is registers as a ser fac or an aberration still!

    I have had to address the overt of croaking in auditing! God forbid you check out on dependents! It doesn’t matter how many potato or rice harvests you have managed!

    Look at all the case that gets stirred up if you just relocate! The neighbors all horrified that you are pulling out of the drive way!

    “Oh My God! Are they REALLY letting go of all this!”

    God forbid you get a call from the Org and you say, “You know what? I am really not interested any more.” That is considered a HUGE red flag!

  274. Here is an observation…
    We seem to fight those closest to us the most. If a Scientologist said that you should run a process to get thetans to exteriorize through their earhole then they would would be told to foad in a distant country but when the Tibetan Book of the Dead is posted then it is ok and it says to do that.
    All this reading of a recommended reading list does is to confuse the already confused. Get people to do the Student Hat and read the Data Series 3 times through and finish OT8 and the SHSBC before wandering into your reading list!

  275. The upper bridge after NOTs and OT8 is about ability. LRH described it in detail back in the 50s.

  276. I believe that before positive gain, one has to be in a good shape case wise. Otherwise, he will not believe he can get there. Hence , he will not get there. Perhaps, that is the curtain you wrote about. Once that curtain is removed, you can be trained to posses abilities. Maybe even OT abilities. Please bear in mind that despite the claim that Ls are positive gain, they are handling case. Thus, they are not. Also what Co$ calls OT IV also handles case. No positive gain there.

    I whole heartedly recommend to you and anyone to listen to the PDF tapes. I believe the gist of Scientology Philosophy and the OT theory is there. This was LRH at his best.

  277. There are different races of thetans. I don’t know all of them. I had to sort this out in auditing. Who / what I was. But these “races” are not connected to bodies. They are connected to manifesting. I am from a race of “travelers”. We move all the time like water. A continuous flowing. “Holding a position in space” goes completely against my purpose line and nature. So does “being there and doing nothing”. Stopping isn’t even possible. I drink coffee before bed to help me dream faster. I had a big hang up for a while trying to “find my people”. Then I realized I didn’t have any people. Travelers don’t “have people”. They flow through tribes. There are other travelers. We are kind of like animals. Animals move all the time. You find us guess where? Traveling! Like in gypsy tribes and circus’ and carnivals. Pretty much on the lower ends of this civilization. A lot of truck drivers are travelers.

  278. This guy rehabilitates travelers and makes them sane again, by just getting them travel at cause.

    Maybe the running program touched on that?

  279. Death is a big missed with holdy event. Nobody seems to want to admit it, accept it, or claim any part of it. Unless you are in battle. Then it’s even encouraged.

  280. “Just because you have been convinced something is true, does not make it so.”

    Brings to mind one of Tom Campbell’s (author of My Big TOE trilogy) questions: “How can you tell the difference between someone telling the truth and someone who believes they are telling the truth?”

  281. Hard times right now for travelers. They are viewed as a “hyper active” outpoint. Not understanding the race has caused a lot of misery.

  282. Of course, when you dwell in a society where any contribution to a death brings 20 to life, people get a little skittish.

  283. David Miscavige is a SPONGE thetan. They are thriving pretty well in this civilization. They sponge up everything around them. That is how they manifest.

  284. Happy Easter to all here. A teachable event. Its importance to mankind has been great. A spiritual watershed moment.

  285. Martin Gibson

    I came across this today, and whilst mildly off topic, it does communicate the trouble with MEST fixations, and specifically pretty buildings beings locks of entrapment by aesthetics.


    From 20ACC-16 of 23 July 1958

    “Now, where aesthetics have turned against the preclear or he has become dependent on something else for his aesthetic quality and then it betrayed him, you have the neatest Rock you’ll ever have. Now, that’s a wonderful Rock. That’s thud!
    This individual walked into the door of the most beautiful building he had ever seen, and they grabbed him and put him in the clink and held the body in duress and transported the soul elsewhere, you know. Fabulous situation. But he was attracted there by an aesthetic.
    Well, this is the entrapment by aesthetics. And you’ll find aesthetics are a usual trap. That’s why you find, by the way, Dianetics and Scientology are not all trapped up with a whole bunch of horse-aesthetics. Get the idea? You’ll find a few of them around because they’re un-avoidable. But it’s not that anybody’s against aesthetics, but we don’t want starry-eyed people wandering in the front door dramatizing for the hundred-thousandth time the lock where they see a beautiful building and walk in. Or the lock of where they hear beautiful music and walk in, where they hear a beautiful organ playing and a choir singing and they walk in the front door. See? Because all you do is collect a lot of nuts.”

  286. “How many people get into scientology because they are seeking spiritual enlightenment? How many to be more “powerful?” How many because they are screwed up in their own estimation and they want to get unscrewed? How many because the registrar convinced them they could make more money? How many now were simply born into it and don’t have a clue what else to do?”

    Even though I had had numerous spiritual experiences and had been looking for some understanding (mainly through the occult book section in my local bk store), when my path crossed that of Scientology by way of first encountering DMSMH, I ‘thought’ I was looking for adventure and I was most definitely in need of a purpose. I once wrote a short story about this titled, The Book, that I posted as a blog a couple of years ago. If curious, it can be read here: In any case, by the time I met up with DN I had supposedly taken the spiritual matters off the table as my experiences on that search had become scary. However, reading DN brought it all back to the table once again. And the quest that never really stopped, came to life with a burning unbridled passion.

    I was not long on my SC path when I realized that what I was looking for, what I was trying to get back to….was home. Whatever ‘home’ was, I knew for sure that I wasn’t there. Which brings to mind something Osho said:

    “If you think that you are rooted and you are at home in this world, you must be living below humanity, because anyone who is ‘really’ human immediately becomes aware that this cannot be the life.

    “It may be a passage, a journey, but this cannot be the goal. And once you feel homeless in this world, then the search starts.

    “That certain man had said, “Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.”
    He may be thinking that Jesus is going to the east, or the west or the south or
    the north. “I will follow him”, but he does not know the direction where Jesus
    is going.

    “Jesus is going god-ward, and that is not north, that is not east, that is not
    west, that is not south; that is neither up or down – it is none of these. To go
    god-ward is to go within. In fact, that is not a direction at all. It is to lose
    all directions: north, east, south, west, up, down – to lose all directions. To
    go within-ward means to move in the dimensionless, directionless. To go within
    is to go beyond space, that is where Jesus is moving.

    “You can’t understand what the invisible is, because at the most you can think
    about it negatively – you can think it is that which is not visible.

    “No, the invisible is also visible, but you need different eyes to see it.”

  287. Oracle. Amen and then some!

  288. Spyros,

    I agree with you. I too see the thetan (or theta) as infinite potential which is cause over life.

    As a point of interest, “potential” comes from “potent” which has its etymological roots in “power”.

    I believe the language is inadequate to describe what theta or a thetan is, so “potential:, i.e., “what can be” is the closest to describing the Infinity that IS this Potential.

    Theta is purely BE. There is no DO or HAVE in theta, in this infinite potential.

    The degree to which we tap into this infinite potential, the degree to which we are aware that this infinite potential is what we really are, determines how “big” or “small” we are, and as well, what we are.

    I believe that theta “endowment” is an expedient term for an apparency because we are not “endowed”, each of us, with some specific portion of theta, What creates this apparency is that we vary in our awareness of ourselves as theta, and we vary in our readiness and willingness and ability to BE.

    The MEST universe is “Do” and “Have”, but the theta universe is only “BE”., but without this BE, this infinite potential, there is no Do and no Have,


  289. Maria, with every fiber of my being, what Ron truly envisioned as Total Freedom is real. I have not gotten there, but I am closer every day. That enthusiasm in my has never waivered.

    One of the reasons I post on this blog is for hope. I know that Ron was right. There is such a state.

    And I hope and pray that all beings find their chosen path and follow it with the dedication of a drowning man devoted to air.

    There is something so sacred that we all are. We are eternal gypsies travelling in this caravansary of ever expanding consciousness towards our most cherished Self.

    Ever existing, every new awareness and ever new joy! There is such love and joy. And death……… Where is thy sting? I have proven, as I am sure many of you have, that we are not these bodies, not these minds. We are timeless, spaceless and ever existing, filled with such joy no tongue can tell. To call this state theedy weedy is to be ignorant of one’s own true nature.
    Having which gained, no other gain is greater! The source of all happiness. The fount of all love, power and wisdom. It is us, thou art that, tat tvam asi!

    May all beings find peace love and joy in there own portable paradais with their own consciousness.

    Happy Easter

  290. Great question Monty. When it comes to teachers I have a few prerequisites:
    1) they cannot promise freedom then punish you for it
    2) they cannot harm others in the name of their path
    3) they cannot preach we are the only way
    4) they must be devoted to telling the truth
    5) the must have humility
    6) I prefer people who have studied and apprenticed with a true spiritual master. Humility is learned from the teacher.
    7) the teaching must deliver what is promised.
    8) the treacher must have a track record of making someone like himself, liberated. Not a copy of the teacher or a robotic victrola. Someone who is themselves free, as themselves and no one else.
    9) his teaching can be cross referenced and found to be true under reasonable constructive doubt.
    10) the technique or practice works and brings more health, happiness and a deep sense of well being.

    If you can find these qualities, it is a good place to start. But never surrender your own sense of resonable constructive doubt to any teacher or teaching.

  291. Ok thanks Marty, but there are still those out in the internet that say Ron was on board with these programs. The massive destruction of paper was trying to protect someone.

    I cannot see him not knowing. It just does not jive with common sense. And I understand common sense is not proof. But his writings ask others to commit these crimes. Why would he not be involved?

  292. Well that’s just where I have a bit of disagreement with the way things are and have been presented. I can’t stress it enough though that this is merely my view. Somehow I just never bought into the idea that there is such a state as ‘case handled’ and then wee off we go to some other realm. If for no other reason but the fact that it sounds like an absolute. I would consider myself as one who truly gets why and how SC works. Of course that could just be my delusion for all you know. But to me OT levels and Ls are all about case. It only seems logical to me that any restriction one has which can be handled by addressing that person was due to that person’s case. The upper levels and Ls allowed me to see more clearly by helping me to spot things that held me back even if it is stuff that was due to others such as outside influence because at the end of the day it is me who held me back. I guess it is a matter of viewpoint anyways, but that’s my take on what is going on.

  293. martyrathbun09

    So, I cave to ‘those out in the internet’ and alter truth? I am surprised you’d go this route.

  294. I believe you regarding Ron’s signiture. I believe you are looking into a lot of things. I trust you as much as I can trust a man I know on a blog. I do not think you would lie.

    I am just telling you my opinion.

    If a man can teach students that violence to protect him is justified and even required, then it is reasonable to deduce that he himself is capable of those acts.

    The truth will come out one way or another. And I am willing for it to go either way. As long as it is the truth.

  295. I feel strongly that you would not lie:-) I appreciate you,

  296. Viewing things through a lens of bias will cause them to be misconstrued. Look for quotation marks and parentheses in what I wrote for better understanding.

    With respect to Yoga’s inroads in the West toward spiritual enlightenment, see, Mr. More Educated Guy

  297. Thank you Brian for your inspiration and blessing! Wonderful!
    Easter blessings to you, and to all!

  298. I my view, the only real enemy is sociopathy, which seeks to ensures that the good is ignored or destroyed and the bad is enforced with violence.

  299. On this, we are in full agreement. Well stated.

  300. Brian, I have given you the reference on non-violent handling of Black Propaganda – PR Series 18. With respect to what you think Ron said, reference please?

  301. Kumare – the true story of a false prophet. I just watched this short (83min) documentary on Netflix. I found it to be most relevant to the topic(s) being discussed on this blog. For a synopsis of the movie:

  302. Luis Agostini

    Excellent consciousness.

    One of the main reasons, in my view, that Scientology never moved past becoming a dimming of the soul and fanatical group, is that it went in the direction of the dictates of the power/status starving ego.


    +1000. Well said.

  304. I too noticed this to be true.

  305. FOTF2012 , here’s the actual reference:

    “The only other conditions I know of that make an auditor mess up a pc’s TA are…(c) A ‘fleeting F/N’ where the pc F/Ns so briefly the auditor misses it and overruns.” (HCOB 23 Nov 73R)

  306. Darkest hour

    Hi Windhorse. May I address the second reference first? That was to “My Billion Year Contract.” I have never met the author but also feel a fondness that comes from reading the description of her struggles to integrate her experience of scientology with other life I was attempting to duplicate her comparison of the christian motif “do unto others as you would have others do unto you” (this is not from buddism) to the “saving the planet” and acting for the “benefit of the greatest number” or most dynamics motifs which is from scientology. Her expertise and insight is based on her experience which I value.

    And so I am relating this comparison in to the quality/quantity discussion, though not advocating for Christisnity. That particular guidance “do unto others as you would have others do unto you” is reality based, it has a place of origination, a root, which is ” you.” I think it is about quality. The scientology mission, to save the planet, makes choices based on the greatest number served or the most dynamics served. That is about quantity. It would have quality if inclusion of the first dynamic, “you,” was mandatory and never excluded. But it was excluded in too many cases so quantity is shrinking.

    Also, I am interested in differentiating about scientology and some practices originating from the east: buddism and taoism.

    So Re: a reference to what I said Budda said: The Satipattana Sutta, an oral discourse by Budda later written down by his monks from memory into Pali, is now available in English. It is almost easier to just read it than to exact quote it due to the style of discouse repetitively circulating and moving points slowly forward which allowed his students to memorize and pass down. Unlike LRH, Budda’s teachings were only an oral tradition for many centuries. The Pali texts were preserved for centuries but not available to the western nor much of the eastern world, until just within the last 25 years. They are translated. Yet many Pali words have no english equivalence. But “wings” is probably doable. I could be wrong about whether it was he, or some other buddhist teacher, (or was it me) who said awareness and equanimity were wings. It is a good metaphor for what is explicated in the Satipattana Sutta. Your understanding that wisdom and compassion are wings seems to me deeply true and correct. These are qualities that arise through the practice of meditation. The satipattana sutta tells about what is meditation: concentration of mind, some translate that as “awareness”, some translate that as “mindfulness”, along with presence of mind, equanimity. Equanimity means no craving or aversion. No craving of bliss, no aversion to the imperfection of what is. Practicing it within yourself helps you to practice it extrovertedly. Practice of awareness and equanimity during meditation and in life allow the wings of wisdom and compassion to arise. Also fills out understanding of Budda’s discourses and what pali words with no english equivalent could mean.

  307. Darkest hour

    Sorry, didn’t type Buddha/buddhist correctly throughout!

  308. Mary actually had cancer and then died of a stroke. She had been doing a diet that uses HCG (pregnancy hormone). I have heard of one other lady that got cancer after that diet. Doesn’t prove anything, but there you go.

  309. Nice 🙂 I agree. I think that theta’s limitation of potential is a lie, and it has a lot to do with the fact that it is not a something, and once it identifies with something, it limits itself. I’m almost certain that’s why Ron ‘kicked them out’ of their bodies first thing in the morning, in older times.

  310. I only brought it up to point out that even LRH thought death was expected, otherwise that billion year contract would be served in the same body with no need to come back.

    As far as the Church goes, I have to wonder if a returning Sea Org member would choose to report back in. From all reports I`ve read its pretty far from ideal scene.

    It seems to me that there are very few that continued their contract right through to the ends of their lives and there are quite a few EX Sea Org members on this very blog!

  311. “I don’t really know what side everyone’s on anymore, and I don’t really care. There is a moment when we have to transcend the side we’re on and understand that we are creatures of a higher order.” Leonard Cohen to a crowd in Poland 1985

    Recently a friend told me to quit being a “reasonable buddhist, it’s just not you” — I had to chuckle since being reasonable is precisely what buddhists aspire to be. Of course, in scientologese it means something quite bad and basically incapable of seeing evil of the enemy.

    For a buddhist “reasonable mean this: not fixed to a right or wrong but knowing that EVERYTHING is impermanent.

    Reasonable means to aspire to dwell in equanimity – free from fixed clinging, aggression and bias.

    Reasonable means that recognizing that those we have labelled enemies are really only enemies for a transient period of time. IF they switch sides, they become a friend.

    Thus labels are ultimately meaningless because they are QUANTITIES — not a quality.

    Being a friend is a quality that doesn’t change depending on the quantity.


  312. “The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”

  313. Graduated, then there is my favorite classic rally cry to encourage violence against the SPs:

    ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by
    any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
    Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.

    Oh sure he cancelled it. Darn, all those disobedient Scientologists harming Ron’s PR. ” hey you bad scientologists, stop doing what Ron told you to do, then told you not to do, not because it harmed people but beause it made him look bad, but he really wants you to continue doing because it was never stopped being done.”

    This is the essence of the evil doctrine. It is pure evil. Hands down end of story.

  314. Oracle Mysticism, than you for the data on Ed Mooney. I am very sorry to hear he didn’t get a memorial service because it was “so out-PR.” Wow! Talk about a make wrong. No one connected the dots to realize it as the OT VIII he got on the Ship that was squirrelled that probably lead up to his crash. He did so much good in Scn and helped so many people that he should have had a memorial service. Anyone should have it so as to be able to end cycle and have as the psychs call it, “closure” for both the living and the moved on departed. I heard from close friends of his that after he died he went to Flag and hung out with an OT VIII hoping to get auditing that way as part of this guy’s “case.” It got so bad that the CS gave him an Rfactor via the guy to shove off and go pick up a body. And he did that according to my source. But he is the ONLY one I have heard of who died and came back. I like many have asked myself “why doesn’t Ron come back and take the church over and kick DM’s butt?”

  315. Oops, a typo in my post above. I meant to say “Ed went to Flag and hung out with an OT VII mid the level hoping to get auditing…”

  316. Luis Agostini, if by saying ‘Scientology’ you mean the Churche’s leader and his likes, I certainly agree. But Ron’s Scientology had nothing to do with egoism, if you consider that he said that one can be all his dynamics. Then you see that this ‘one’ is not an ego…

  317. Graduated I am glad you replied. I must apologize because I did not read what you said about the east clearly. Sometimes I get too enthusiastic in what my view is and don’t give due reflection on other’s views.

    I apologize.

    I will read your link later. Gotta go:-)

  318. Brian, early this morning at the instant I emerged from a dream that had become more than a little boring, “Big ME” said, “Okay. Let’s have a look at Tom’s question and Brian’s 10 prerequisites re teachers.” And so my morning communion began.

    Before I take up Tom’s question, a side note. I was pondering the repetitive cycle of going to sleep then waking up. It occurred to me that the sleep/wake/sleep cycle is a fractal of the birth/death/birth cycle but without the amnesia. And dreaming, is the in between lives zone.

    Now, back to Tom’s question but with an addition. How can you tell the difference between someone who is telling the truth, someone who believes they are telling the truth and someone who is incredibly adept at lying?

    Is this a question that can be answered or is it the kind of question where every answer is another question? It seems to me that answering Tom’s question (with my addition) would be impossible unless I knew what the ‘truth’ was. But, how could I be certain that the ‘truth’ I knew was the ‘truth’ was not something I believed to be true? If I am interpreting and evaluating everything I perceive through the filter of what I believe to be true, in other words, what is true for me rather than from a genuine truth, might I be just ‘beefing up’ what in actuality is a lie? So now I have to ask, what is a genuine truth?

    It seems that Marty and all those who comment here (including me) recognize ,or at least suspect, that truth is simple. A genuine truth is a simplicity. Thus, the more complicated, the more complex, the more layers, levels, vias, components and degrees that makes up something’s composition, the more distant from truth it is. Is that an accurate statement?

    How simple can truth be? Could it be this simple: TRUTH IS ? Personally, I suspect it is that simple. And, as this simplicity it is beyond words, symbols, metaphors, allegories, analogies…it is beyond matter, energy, space or time. I also suspect that we are TRUTH looking for itself. TRUTH IS contains no lies. As long as I perceive a lie aka, illusion, hallucination, figment of my imagination, dream, indeed, as long as I perceive anything, I will not be the TRUTH I AM. There is no perception is TRUTH IS.

    A statement I have read and/or recited more times than I could easily count: Scientology means “knowing how to know” or “the study of wisdom.” For me, still to this day, the simplicity of that statement, particularly the “knowing how to know” encapsulates my journey, my search. I just want to know all that I know. It’s that simple. And that simplicity, for me, is as about as close to the TRUTH as I can get while still believing in an illusion. I cannot yet be the TRUTH that I AM because I still cling to the illusion I made to believe in. But, even though, I still clutch at this dream I seem to have become so fond of, the good news is; I am gradually becoming more willing to awaken and thereby I am gradually loosening my grip on a non-reality.


    Brian, your ten prerequisites make good sense! Thank you for sharing them. Each one suggests that it has emerged at the end of a experiential learning curve. For a time being I had my own set of prerequisites re spiritual teachers that was very similar to yours. However, as my journey has progressed my considerations have changed and I now hold a different perspective. I consider that there is no teacher, guru, master outside of myself. I am my own guru and everything that I seem to perceive outside of myself is being projected from within. Thus, everything and everyone is a manifestation of ME that is being reflected back to me as a potential lesson. Whether or not the lesson is recognized or realized depends on the choice I make. Sometimes (its becoming more frequent) I choose to recognize, accept and learn from the lesson. Other times, I pretend that what I am perceiving is real and most definitely exists outside of self and therefore can cause effects on self. By the way, I also consider that there is a projection that originates from the ‘collective.’ It could be that we are actually an Infinite Oneness, an Always IS, TRUTH IS or some such thing but obviously, where we believe we are right now, we are manifest as billions, if not trillions, of individualities.

    That said, I want to speak to your prerequisite #10…”the technique or practice works and brings more health, happiness and a deep sense of well being.” Brian, I have found this, by far, to be the most accurate index of the workability of any self-help modality I might choose to explore. Sure, there are sometimes difficult obstacles to navigate and overcome on one’s journey but if greater happiness and a greater peace of mind are not soon forthcoming and all you see is more and more obstacles ahead….well then, it’s time to move on to something that will take you on up a little higher. The “no pain no gain” program, the “you have to struggle to have a better life” program and many other such programs have been deeply instilled in most of us. But these programs are just lies that we go through life believing are true and continually make real.

    Peace Out and Happy Trails ~ Monte

    p.s. for the guru within (a resource):

  319. Have a look at how many Clears there were when DM came into power and how many there are now. DM couldn’t even manage quantities.

  320. martyrathbun09

    I never posted or recommended the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Transcend or descend.

  321. No one has ever posted the Tibetan Book of the Dead on this blog that I am aware of!

    And frankly, that is a ridiculously long road to get a point where you can read something else! Data and information are not harmful. And if Scientology cannot stand up to comparison and cannot stand up to debate and discussion, then it isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

    I was told this all the way up the bridge — the idea being that I was too stupid and too badly educated and too unaware to even make a comparison. Just do as you are told. Well, I am done with that and I have to tell you that I am disgusted with the outcome of that attitude and operating basis.

    What do you think would have happened if LRH had taken that point of view? I’ll tell you — nothing. Nothing at all. Let’s try to keep in mind that he was not the Lord God of all Universes everywhere. He read widely, he researched, he had an enormous library, and he freely helped himself to 50,000 years of thinking men’s ideas. And according to him, none of them were even Clear. Neither was he.

    You want to be like Ron? Then be like Ron. Re-read the Code of Honor because in that issue he describes his own belief system.

    Me? I want to be like me. To do that I have to be the one to decide what is right and what is wrong and what is true every single step of the way, regardless of what anyone, including LRH has to say.

  322. I generally see fleeting F/Ns when a PC is heavily charged. Something happens such as the loss of a loved one and the PC goes into heavy over-restimulation. As one peels off the charge there are fleeting F/Ns as charge comes off but the next chain keys in again rapidly. If there were 50 chains of engrams restimulated by the loss one might need to key out 40 with fleeting F/Ns before seeing one that lasts for 3 swings.

  323. One needs to be that in order to understand the drama and duplicate it.
    LRH was one, DM is a rather tacky one and you are quite skilled in that art in the way you create this blog.
    Drama aside – did you notice that LRH mellowed around 1978 to 1980 and that it was followed by a fast insistence by the heavies in the CMO/WDC on heavy ethics?

  324. OK. I got the impression from your video about the Tao of Scientology that your thinking had changed in a way that I could work with. In the past you have been quite scathing of those who left the CofS before you and I felt that it was due to not confronting your overts against Independent Scientologists. My intent is to continue with Scientology and that may involve, after very careful deliberation, changes to the Logics and Axioms. Transcension and Descension are not on my options list.

  325. Hi Gretchen, I know what you mean. I have had the same experience myself.

    There was a time while I was active in SC where I considered SC to be the umbrella of all umbrellas. And, by examining anything through the lens of SC, I could and would be able to achieve a more thorough understanding of it than otherwise. Because I believed this to be true for me it was. But, oddly enough, when I left SC this flipped. As I began to gradually decompress from the SC programming I realized that I had added a great deal of my own story (fantasies) to the SC story and LRH’s story. And with this realization it became clear that I did not understand SC or LRH nearly so well as I had thought I had.

    After leaving, I wasn’t all that interested in DM but I was especially curious what the hell had happened to Ron. However, my queries through Marty’s blog and Jeff Hawkins’ Leaving SC blog never got any traction. As I became a bit preoccupied with what had happened to Ron, I searched the Internet and compiled more ‘noise’ than ‘signal.’ Most of this originated from one faction or another of the SC community. Anyway, it occurred to me that I might get a better view by getting outside of any SC community and explore my queries through a variety of other ‘lenses.’

    Some of the things I searched for were accounts or stories that would coincide with any part of the many space opera stories that Ron told. I found very little and what I did find would have been a stretch to say it coincided. Next, because, it appeared to me that ‘something’ had got to Ron or that he had gone over to the ‘dark’ side, I began to examine SC through the lenses of Freemasonry, Albert Pike, the Illuminati, the new world order, David Icke’s Reptilian scenarios, Allister Crowley, Dan Winter’s material, a plethora of Project Camelot interviews and numerous more.

    So…did I learn anything? Yes. Lot’s! I could see such a diversity of influences from bizarre, extraordinary and incredible sources in SC. And, while going through this search, I became aware of an accumulation of queries that I had posed over the years with regard to some snippet of a comment or another that Ron had made that he didn’t elaborate on and had remained a mystery to me (floating along in time with me). In other words, I had a pile of “What the hell did he mean by that?” that I had filed and buried in a mental folder well out plain view. Anyway, that folder got pulled to the desk top and opened during this search and more than a few of those queries ceased to be a mystery.

    Now, with all this being said, I, some time ago, moved well beyond this once preoccupation of mine. The world got really dark and scary for a while there but no so anymore. Different perspective different world.

  326. I don’t know why you’re surprised, Marty. A reviewed of Brian’s posts demonstrations that his agenda is to make himself and Yoga maximally right, and Scientology, LRH and anyone who sides with LRH maximally wrong. And if you get in the way of that, you get targeted as well. The only reason he appreciates you is because you provide a forum for his agenda.

    OK, Brian, so from your perspective Yoga beats Scientology for spiritual enlightenment because Yoga is now a billion dollar industry in the U.S. (irrespective of the fact that it’s applied exclusively as body/mind therapy) and because the “better” celebrities (Seinfeld, Paul McCartney, Ringo, Scorsese, Eastwood, Degeneras) meditate. (Never mind those +/- 67 others also-rans who did benefited from Scientology at one point or another – see Nice MESTy yardstick there, Brian. Maybe real estate owed counts in your book, too?

    You read somewhere on the Internet where someone says Ron wanted to “utterly destroy” his enemies, yet despite the LRH reference I linked for standard non-violent handling of Black Propaganda, you produce a reference someone made up on the internet to Black PR LRH.

    And that isn’t sophistry? Watch out for the recoil, my friend.

    You should take your own advice: “Just because you have been convinced something is true, does not make it so.”

    You profess non-violence but relish the fact that our Church “is in flames.”

    You concede that, “Scientology is good at taking a person from unawareness of soul to awareness of soul. From living at effect to understanding there is a mechanics (sic) to the laws of life.” But then you bristle at anything suggesting more than you perceive beyond Yoga: “But it does not understand some of the higher laws” – like you do, I suppose. After all, Ron “just talked about . . . erasure or neutralization of mental or physical mass . . . and developed a psychological therapy with a past life twist,” the silly man. This, even though your ignorance of what’s actually being looked at in auditing (and it’s NOT memories) and how as-ising works is obvious: “One could make a case . . . that constantly looking into one’s memory or time track for answers can create mass as memories have no ending.”

    What exactly is your deal here? You did some work for CCHR 40 years ago and recently read some things on the Internet and now you “know all about” Scientology? Come to convince all us uneducated, brainwashed, deluded Scientologists that nirvana awaits in Yoga? Even though, “I have not gotten there, but I am closer every day.”

    Well, I’m glad you found what works for you. Maybe they’re got a remedy for ser-facs for you. But please watch where you’re pissing because, “Many paths are possible; whichever path is sincerely traveled leads to inner peace.” ~ Bhagavad Gita 4.11

  327. ” . . . will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease” (sic). Was that your typo Brian or the guy’s who made this up?

  328. Graduated, I LOVE your reasoning here. Thank you for posting it. I actually agree with everything you say, including the bit about the Guru within. That is where the Guru is. Gu means dispeller and Ru means darkness.
    I say the Guru is within even though I have a Guru, Paramahansa Yogananda. All true gurus say the guru is within. A true guru is only wanting to help the student see that.

    But teachers in the spiritual realm have a bad rap owing to the abusers of power and authority and the “gurus” who want their egos worshiped.

    Having a teacher is a very personal thing, that is why I am not a Cal Worthinton selling Yogananda. The teacher student relationship is something based on mutual trust and love. And it is entered into consciously and not through coersion or some sales technique.

    It is sacred, like a wife or brother or mother or father. Some people abhor the idea of a teacher. I completely understand that view and support anyones approach to truth.

    We must be true to ourselves first and foremost and honor our comprehension of what is thought to be real.

    A true teacher would never violate integrity to self. A true teacher would require it!

  329. Pingback: E’ Spirito di Qualità o di Quantità? Di Marty Rathbun | Scientology Libera - La Reception

  330. Sorry Monte……… I have to pay more attention! I am getting to go have fun with friends and thought you were Graduated.

    Thank you Monte!

    Have a beautuful day all !!!!!

  331. martyrathbun09

    I believe it was ‘demise’ and not ‘decease’ in the original. Are you infering the passage, but for the wrongly inserted word, was not by LRH?

  332. English ( Google Translator )

    Hello Marty, I wanted to compliment you for this post.
    For me it truly reflects the correct point of view about Scientology and life.
    I know that in Italy usually yours are translated and published in Indipendologo, and since this is not ‘been translated, I translated and posted on my Blog ( because I consider it very important and make known to most ‘people as possible.
    Thank you, good job and a happy Easter!
    Francesco Minelli


    Ciao Marty, volevo farti i complimenti per questo Post.
    Per me rispecchia veramente il corretto punto di vista riguardo a Scientology e la vita.
    So che in Italia solitamente i tuoi articoli vengono tradotti e pubblicati sull’ Indipendologo, e siccome questo non e’ stato tradotto, l’ho tradotto e pubblicato sul mio Blog ( ) in quanto lo considero veramente importante e da far conoscere a piu’ persone possibili.
    Grazie, Buon Lavoro e buona Pasqua !
    Francesco Minelli

  333. martyrathbun09

    Happy Easter Franceso. Easter is all about transcendence.

  334. martyrathbun09

    I prefer history to drama.

  335. Hi Maria, you wrote: “Me? I want to be like me.” Bingo!

    I too feel this way. In fact, a long while back I posted a comment on one of Marty’s blogs and here’s an excerpt from that comment that speaks to this:

    This may sound a bit odd, but I came to the realization that my gift to the universe is to be me. Not to be my dad, my mother, my brother, my daughter, my wife, my cousins, my grandparents, my teachers, my friends, my enemies, my bosses, people I see in the mags, movies, television, characters in a book or any combination thereof, and so on and so forth. My gift is to be purely me. And I consider that another’s gift is to be purely who they are. In having this perspective I have no reason, or obligation, or duty, or compulsion to change another in ANY way. In other words, I do not want another to be me nor do I want me to be another. My true gift is being me. Another’s true gift is being who they are.

  336. Graduated, I am very much interested in what you know/have about the campaign against LRH/the Church. I think this information broadly known would answer alot of questions for Scientologists and the general public regarding actions taken during those times. I think its a third dynamic engram that needs clarifying. “Margaret” has done a brilliant job exposing the truth about LRHs war record. Please contact me

  337. It occurred to me today that Sea Org Members are not permitted to contribute in final wishes. What if someone prefers to be buried instead of cremated? Has a staff member ever been able to decide if they would want a memorial service? Would they have to write a C.S.W. if they wanted a burial in a coffin? None of them would even the wherewithal to provide for a funeral service. They are allowed no responsibility with regards to how they wish to depart. They are expected to die at their desk. Preferably, Thursday after 2:00. With a fully hatted replacement. Call the coroner to remove the dev t particle from the Org. Nobody even handed a hat pack on how to claim the body. If they are sick enough in advance to get them out of the org while still breathing, drop them at a bus stop with 500.00.

  338. Graduated, I apologize being so blunt, but you are in denial. To only reply by criticizing a typo and the person who wrote the typo is to quite effectively reveal the depth of denial in Scientology.

    Here is an order to harm people, that you categorically know LRH wrote, and you are quibbling with a wrong word and refusing to address the content.

    This is equivalent to a judge hearing a spousal abuse case and finding the the husband that abused the wife innocent because the wife said the husband “beet” me into unconsciousness.

    “Sorry Lady , you said beet and not beat. Case dismissed”

    I hope you can see what you just did. Actually I am glad you said this. It is a great example of denial.

  339. I take it from your question that you believe it is original LRH language, but for the insertion of “decease” in place of “demise”. Brian’s original question to me was, “[H]ow is destroy them utterly being non standard?” I referred him to PR Series 18, the non-violent standard for exposing Black Propagandists with TRUTH, and asked him for an LRH referenced which contained the language in his query, specifically “destroy them utterly.” In response he produced a reference which in fact contains the wording “ruin him utterly” in the context of using legal action to bring about a Black Propagandist’s “professional demise.” Accordingly, he has not yet produced a reference responsive to my question. To ruin a Black Propagandists professionally is a far cry from “destroying them utterly” as Brian has dubbed-in to justify his claim that LRH endorsed violence. From your recent postings and comments, it appears that you concur with his hypothesis: “. . . HCO PL The Responsibilities of Leaders, issued as policy less than a year later, which justifies murder provided it is carried out stealthily against the enemy of a worthy enough power.” And, “LRH took it to the letter, which spawned Miscavige who took it to a whole new level” confirming your position on that issue despite LRH’s qualification imprinted within that policy letter, i.e., “And I used a military sphere so it could be seen clearly without restimulation of admin problems.”

    I did not experience the level of 3rd Dynamic psychosis that you did, Marty, and did not personally work directly with LRH. Therefore, the use or condoning of physical violence on LRH’s part is a foreign concept to me, one for which I have not seen credible evidence to support, and contrary to my understanding of Scientology. (DM and the reverse culture he created is an entirely different matter, and for which credible evidence is overwhelming. And one can harp on the Fair Game PL all they want, the eternal misinterpretation of which accounts for its cancellation.) Therefore, I have to go with my understanding – not of arcane, obscure or canceled references to the contrary – but of the published, extent, unadulterated, state-of-the-art HCO PLs and HCO Bs before “LRH Compilations Unit” got to them and in their appropriate context. Therein, handling Black Propaganda is a non-violent activity per PR Series 18.

    If, in our postmortem of Scientology, there is anything that would lead to violence or abuse in what I will refer to as the 2.0 upgrade, it should of course be excised. I’ve communicated my thoughts along that line for the record extensively.

  340. Graduated, I have sent OTs to field auditors herevin LA within the last year. An OT 7 that hadn’t gotten auditing in a while was wanting a safe terminal and I got him to one of the best field auditors in town.

    I as a Scientologist for 11 years, I was a Sea Org member at FOLOEUS, I was the first artist to peform at Celebrity Center in 1976/77 on LA Brea when Yvonne got the OK from Ron to reboot Celebrity Center’s performances at the Center. Jim Couger asked me to perform.

    I was always asked to take a break from couses to audit the “hard” pcs. When I stareted in the most upstat mission in New York the mission owner wanted to invest in me by sending me to ASHO for training because I always brought pcs to VGI’s and cognition. PCs wanted to be audited by me.

    So you see, though I know I am being a nudge here to some, a buzzing annoyance in the ear of some, I am simply pointing out what Phil pointed out. Somewhere the party went south. Somewhere Ron got overwhelwmed and lashed out in a violent way.

    My criticism has never been about the awesomeness of auditing when it is done well. My criticism is about two things mainly:

    1) only way
    2) harming others to protect the only way

    And I bring up Yoga only to add to the mix that there are other ways. Not just my way. Any other way.

    I hope that gives you more context to my annoying posts. 🙂 peace out bro

  341. martyrathbun09

    I am not agreeing with any hypotheses. The reference in question that I tended to agree with you ought not have said ‘decease’ is what I was commenting on. But, in rechecking I note that Brian was correct initially – ‘decease’ was the word Ron used in the original. The passage in question was published for thirty some years as Brian quoted until the “LRH Compilations Unit” got to it at David Miscavige’s order. We had been burned and burned badly in many lawsuits because of it – so Miscavige simply had that passage excised for the modern tech vols release.

  342. And Graduated, sorry for all my typos. I am notoriously not editing my texting. BTW, thanks for your passionate replies. Isn’t it grand that we all have different views! It makes it more fun.

  343. Marty, thank you for clarifying that you are not agreeing with any hypotheses, for checking on the veracity of the original wording, and for relating the fact that Compilations Unit excised that passage.

    Too bad they didn’t simply correct the obvious typo.

  344. Well, your sure has hell could have fooled me (and did), and take a win on have the nudge/buzzing annoyance hat down pat. And thank you for the pedigree. I’m with you on #2 above. One #1, I can agree up to Clear but I’m not aware of anything else to resolves what’s on the OT Levels. And if you’re referring 7s to auditors, I’m assuming your agree?

    Peace 😉

  345. No worries, mate. I know another guy who made a typo in an oft quoted passage that caused a world of shit, 🙂 but they don’t bother me.

  346. Graduated, this is the great question. And I cannot say I know one way or another. I just have an opinion based on his writings, circumstantial evidence, of condoning violence. It is a valid question that history and evidence will reveal: was LRH behind ANY vilolent retribution against critics. I believe the revealing of this will be traumatic for some. But like pulling witholds, it won’t be easy. Could this be a 3rd dynamic withold?

    I am just asking questions. Questions are good. I like questions. There are no bad unauthorized questions.

  347. The rule to apply to avoid such things as CoS pervertion of power and knowledge is that simple test:

    – Are the actions of the individual or group, in coherence with one’s/its pretended main goal?

    E.g., for CoS:

    – Does the actions of the church are in coherence with the pretented main goal of “Infinite ARC”?

    In other words, as Raplh and Edith Hilton would probably say about the Cos:

    – While the means produce indeed effects which add to the result too and that the journey to experience is longer than “the arrival”, would be only in term of time: MEANS TO ACHIEVE A GOAL ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOAL ITSELF.

    Infinite Felicity & Love For Any Of Us,

  348. Hi Didier,

    You wrote, “MEANS TO ACHIEVE A GOAL ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOAL ITSELF”. That’s something interesting to think about..

    Here’s another idea too: The means to a goal should not conflict with the goal as it may be a “slippery slope”..

    “Slippery slope” defined as follows: “a dangerous pathway or route to follow; a route that leads to trouble. [example sentence:] The matter of euthanasia is a slippery slope with both legal and moral considerations.”

    Infinite Felicity,
    marildi 🙂

  349. Hehe, yes! Indead! That’s the idea too, dear Marildi 🙂 (thanks for your comment 😉 ).

    And very think that if any scientolgist have had realized that, as Ralph and Edith made me realized so few years ago, we, All Of Us, would have hardly accepted the contradictions in the church; like senior not taking full responsibility and not practicing full ARC with their junior, or having tolerence for such things like the said “fair game rule”.

    Itsn’t it funny indeed in a way to realize that in practice, in the CoS, we had seniors blaming their juniors while a very basic in scientology is that one create anything happening in one’s own universe?

    How One Of Us could blame “an other member of our Whole”, if one is creating oneself any non-ideal scene in one’s aera?

    Shouldn’t one first blame oneself before to blame “others”? Shouldn’t one find first in oneself the reasons for having “a so bad junior”? 😉

    Sincerely, I think it is very very important to educate Any Of Us in these rules-tests on “goals” and actual “means”, to waranty us a much better future.

    Infinite Love, Felicity and Fun For All Of Us!

  350. Dear Marildi, about this kind of statements, could you have a look on the following blog and tell me if you wish, what would be your own ideas and corrections; as you have just so nicely done just before? 😉


  351. Well said, dear Didier. 🙂

    Looking back at my experience as a staff member, it seems to me that it had been one big “practical assignment” (like on courses) to apply the principles of Scientology – and we flunked! I believe that even LRH flunked – but the “practical” continues for those with the courage. Do you remember the following quote?

    “Courage could be summed up in: one, being willing to cause something; and two, going ahead to achieve the effect one has postulated against any and all odds. There doesn’t happen to be any such thing as failure. There just doesn’t happen to be any such thing.

    “But of course, you all want to agree there’s such a thing as failure so that you can have a reason to fail so you won’t have to be cause. That’s another thing. But there isn’t any reason to fail. There’s no excuse for any failure that ever occurred anyplace in history, except this—except this: There was just not quite enough carry-through and push-through. . . .

    “. . .There isn’t even such a thing as ‘carrying on too long in one direction toward the postulated effect.’ There isn’t even that. There isn’t even such a thing as ‘there are too many odds.’ That doesn’t exist. Nor, there isn’t such a thing as saying, ‘Well, what I postulated was unreasonable, and therefore I have to abandon that goal now because it was unreasonable,’ and so forth…”

    “…if you’re strong enough and tough enough you would simply postulate that it was going to happen and it would occur.” (Article from R&D Volume 14)

    Infinite Love, Felicity, Fun and Courage 🙂

  352. I tried googling “ILFAF” and could not find a blog. Can you give the link?

    ml, marildi 🙂

  353. Silly me, I just got what you meant by “ILFAF” – comm lag! (LOL)

    By “the following blog”, do you mean Marty’s blog post that follows this one – “The Tao of Scientology”?

    “ILFAF”, 😉

  354. Lol! “ILFAF” was to short: “Infinite Love, Felicity And Fun!” 😉

    The adresse of my blog is:

    “ILFAF!” Again, dear Marildi 🙂

  355. Yes dear Marildi, I do remember this LRH’s quote. Thanks a lot for having remembered it. 🙂

    Inifinte Love, Felicity And Fun!

  356. Marildi: Silly me, I just got what you meant by “ILFAF” – comm lag! (LOL)”


    Marildi: By “the following blog”, do you mean Marty’s blog post that follows this one – “The Tao of Scientology”?

    Lol, no, the one I didn’t yet paste indeed at this time, but that you have now in my previous post.

    Marildi: “ILFAF”,

    “ILFAF” Too! 🙂

  357. Wow, Didier, you put a lot of thought into your definitions. I highly commend you! It would take more time than I have right now to really study them, but I found many of them to be very interesting, indeed. And I’m glad to know about your website for future reference. 🙂

    “ILFAF!” 😉
    ml, marildi

  358. 🙂 Very Thanks For The Acknowledgement, dear Marildi! I will be very happy if you could contribute to improve any of them or for any other suggestion.

    “ILFAF” x10 😉

  359. Dear Didier, I have you in “my universe”. 😉

    “ILFAF” x10 too 🙂

  360. Hehe, I thought it could be already the case 😉

    “ILFAF” Always 🙂

  361. No Graduated, I don’t agree. I have my views on the OT levels now that are not part of this thread.
    I refered an OT to an auditor because he was wanting to get some auditing. I wouldn’t send a Catholic to a Buddhist retreat.

    His wife told me he was grateful. That is all I care about.

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