Jesus Christ is reported to have said, ‘The measure by which you give is the measure by which you will receive.’

Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote:

Justice is not postponed. A perfect equity adjusts its balance in all parts of life. {Oi chusoi Dios aei enpiptousi}, — The dice of God are always loaded. The world looks like a multiplication-table, or a mathematical equation, which, turn it how you will, balances itself. Take what figure you will, its exact value, nor more nor less, still returns to you. Every secret is told, every crime is punished, every virtue rewarded, every wrong redressed, in silence and certainty. What we call retribution is the universal necessity by which the whole appears wherever a part appears. If you see smoke, there must be fire. If you see a hand or a limb, you know that the trunk to which it belongs is there behind.

Every act rewards itself, or, in other words, integrates itself, in a twofold manner; first, in the thing, or in real nature; and secondly, in the circumstance, or in apparent nature. Men call the circumstance the retribution. The causal retribution is in the thing, and is seen by the soul. The retribution in the circumstance is seen by the understanding; it is inseparable from the thing, but is often spread over a long time, and so does not become distinct until after many years. The specific stripes may follow late after the offence, but they follow because they accompany it. Crime and punishment grow out of one stem. Punishment is a fruit that unsuspected ripens within the flower of the pleasure which concealed it. Cause and effect, means and ends, seed and fruit, cannot be severed; for the effect already blooms in the cause, the end preexists in the means, the fruit in the seed.

‘Compensation’, Essays: First Series.

95 responses to “Justice

  1. spyrosillusionist

    I have been giving up on justice bit by bit. I have noticed that by expecting another repair or get damaged for something he/she has done to me, put me more at effect –made me more irresponsible. And even worse was when I was seeking -to be fair- something bad to happen to me, to make up for something bad I had done myself. I read some long ago that this ‘what goes around comes around’ is fac 1 dramatisation. Well, in any case, I think it doesn’t serve me. For a while -while and after I was in the COS- I believed that if one attacked me I should be ruthless. There was too much stress on morals and justice, instead of self determined ethics. I now think I just shouldn’t allow the attack, but to hold it suspended in time and seek revenge or something, no. (im ‘Spyros’, by the way 😛 )

  2. Marty, you don’t mind if I share some of these pearls on my FB wall do you?

  3. The LRH concept of merely being faced by your accuser with the real accusation seems so shallow alongside this Emerson quote.

  4. Perfect!

    Then you & Mosey will receive in abundance!!!!

  5. Thank you for pointing in this direction. Very rich, west meeting east. I hope folks will follow the link and ponder, with comfort…and/ or with fear, as the case may be.

  6. Justice is built into the Law of Karma.

    I see Karma as an incomplete cycle of action. It persists and impinges on a person until it brought to conclusion.


  7. Diamond Dave, NOT!, “Super Skip” (“The Sociopath Next Door”), YES!

  8. Excerpt from A Course in Miracles text chapter 25:

    There IS a kind of justice in salvation of which the world knows nothing. To the world, justice and VENGEANCE are the same, for sinners see justice ONLY as their punishment, perhaps sustained by someone ELSE, but NOT escaped. The laws of sin DEMAND a victim. WHO it may be makes little difference. But death MUST be the cost and MUST be paid. This is NOT justice, but insanity. Yet how could justice BE defined WITHOUT insanity, where love means hate, and death is seen as victory and triumph over eternity and timelessness and life?

    You who know not of justice still can ask, and learn the answer. Justice looks on all in the same way. It is NOT just that one should lack for what another has. For that is vengeance, in WHATEVER form it takes. Justice demands NO sacrifice, for ANY sacrifice is made that sin MAY BE PRESERVED and KEPT. It is a payment offered for the cost of sin, BUT NOT THE TOTAL COST. The rest is taken from another, to be laid beside your LITTLE payment, to “atone” for all that you would keep and NOT give up. So is the victim seen as PARTLY you, with someone ELSE by far the greater part. And in the TOTAL cost, the greater his, the less is yours. And justice, being blind, is satisfied by being paid, it matters not by whom.

    Can this BE justice? God knows not of this. But justice DOES He know, and knows it well. For He is wholly fair to everyone. Vengeance is alien to His Mind BECAUSE He knows of justice. To be just is to be fair, AND NOT be vengeful. Fairness AND vengeance are impossible, for each one contradicts the other, and denies that it is real. It is impossible for you to SHARE the Holy Spirit’s justice, with a mind that can conceive of specialness at all. Yet how could HE be just if He condemns a sinner for the crimes he did not do, but THINKS he did? And where would justice be if He demanded of the ones obsessed with the idea of punishment that they lay it aside, unaided, and perceive it is not true?

    Source link: http://courseinmiracles.com/8-the-principle-of-salvation/urtext/25-the-remedy/the-principle-of-salvation

  9. Vox Clamantes in Deserto

    That was truly deep.
    Thank you for the work that you guys have done. That’s all I can say.

  10. burnedbutnotbitter

    This is such a perfect description of Karma I am going to print it out.
    Thank you, RWE and Marty. Can’t wait for more news on Mosey’s suit.

  11. Hubbard made a similar statement in the book *Scientology 8-80*:

    “One believes he can use any facsimile he has ever received. He has been hurt. He uses the facsimile of being hurt to hurt another. But since one survives as well as everything else survives, to hurt another is wrong. One regrets the injury, seeking to turn back time (which is regret). Thus the facsimile he used becomes interlocked with his facsimile of trying to use it and both facsimiles “hang up” and travel with present time. One even gets the pain he seeks to inflict on another, this being the action against him of the facsimile he sought to give, by action, to another. It startles the preclear, when run through a boyhood fight, wherein he hit another boy in the eye, to feel the pain in his own eye at the instant of the blow.

    “And so it is with all inflicted injuries.

    “This is a simple matter of the interaction of the pictures of energy.

    “This is a ‘maybe’, indecision, inaction. This is aberration—trying to do unto others what was done to you—good or bad.”

  12. ExIntStaffMember

    One night in the desert, I laid on my back staring into the starry sky and was utterly stunned by the raw beauty of the Universe. Reading these words brings about that same feeling.

  13. He was such a major link in the eastern thought and practice chain that has set the groundwork for a spiritually interested America.

    Such profound understanding of how it all works.


  14. What a great quote*, and link! I have a bookmark labeled Think Clearly, and the link to the Emerson site is now there.
    Thank you.

    *NB to other readers: ‘stripes’ in this case means the mark of a whip, or other beating instrument.

  15. I enjoyed reading Emerson above.
    I also like this quote:
    “Not only is there often a right and wrong, but what goes around does come around, Karma exists, chickens do come home to roost, and as my mother, Phyllis, liked to say, “There is always a day of reckoning.” The good among the great understand that every choice we make adds to the strength or weakness of our spirits—ourselves, or to use an old fashioned word for the same idea, our souls. That is every human’s life work: to construct an identity bit by bit, to walk a path step by step, to live a life that is worthy of something higher, lighter, more fulfilling, and maybe even everlasting.”

    ― Donald Van de Mark,
    end of Quote
    On a more personal note what the Church acted out on me in the last 3.5 years including the death of Alexander Jentzsch is their Karma, the way I will deal with it is my Karma.
    ✩ 😀 ♥ ❀ ♫ ☺ ❀. ♥ ♪ ☼ ♪ ☼ !!

  16. Marty, Are you not guilty of everything that is being done to you? Did you not do this to others? Have not many people suffered because of you and your actions? So is it not very hypocritical of you to start riding on a white horse and wearing a white hat? Did you not tell Monique who you were and all the bad deeds you had done? Did you really not tell her how much harassment was coming your way because who in this whole world would know better than you. It was your way of life for 30 odd years. So I think the suit was your plan all along. Why not make money off all the crap you gave out. Of course we will never know how much harm you’ve done to others because of your personal policy to keep that hidden. Why don’t you stop bringing Jesus Christ to your defense Marty until you get to a church and ask for forgiveness and do a mighty good amends project.

  17. martyrathbun09

    Not at all.

  18. Spyros, there is a saying that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine. Justice and a balancing or reckoning does not often happen on the timetable we would like or expect. Patience is recommended. And what you might think is the proper response, reaction, result or other manifestation of an act, may not be it at all. Trust and faith that a Balancing of the books , so to speak, will occur, is needed. I suggest you reread the Emerson Quote Marty posted above if English is not your first language. Aurora in the comments made a good point that the word stripes refers to the effects of the punishment, as in a caning, which may only be visible years after the offence. And you most likely will never even become aware of how justice was manifested if you were not the transgressor. For me, its enough to see or find how I am or have created my own situations.

  19. Karen,
    I’ve admired your actions from afar (Bay Area). You are one classy lady!
    ML, Midge

  20. Marty,
    Wow. What impressive piece of writing, I went to sleep last night thinking about it.

    While Waldo Emerson reflects about the effects of actions in the field of time, its actual effect on me is to send me back to square zero: no time, no flow, and no duality.

    Beautifully and powerfully written.

  21. I believe it is the choices we make with our mental pictures that is important.

    Mental pictures are simply recordings of experiences.

    How we react to and act upon those pictures are regulated by our value system.

    To blame pictures for action we do is another form of not taking responsibility.

    It is WE who choose and act, not our pictures(mind).

  22. I agree. And it will always come to a conclusion – in its own time. Its the spread of events in time that makes in hard for some to connect the dots.

  23. There is no justice excepts God’s….No matter what is done by people the end will come out the way HE wants it to….and it’s always the best for all.

  24. I really enjoy reading your post Karen..You are a great writer! 🙂

  25. For the full treatment of the question, “What is Justice?” see Plato’s The Republic.


    The book changes you. Written around 300 BC, I think the word “edify” was first coined in English by a guy who was trying to describe what happened to him while reading “The Republic”.

    An easy way to approach it for the first time is by listening to it.

    This is where you can download it and listen to it for free:


    Justice is a very valuable human creation. Man can be trusted with it. The proof of this is that wherever justice has been created, it has been created by Man.

    May Mosey and all her Witnesses create a full 3 Dimensional Reality of Justice in their quest for it via the Texas court system.

    And I don’t mean any fucking clay demo of it, either.


  26. True Wendy. Lack of wide enough attention span may hide things from us.


  27. Hi Brian. My understanding of the LRH quote is that it IS the individual who is making the choices and who knows that “since one survives as well as everything else survives, to hurt another is wrong.” Thus he “regrets” causing injury and it is his regret that causes him to get back the injury he inflicted.

    I see that LRH quote as simply a description of the mechanics involved in the interaction of pictures. But it is the person himself who sets in motion those mechanics, because of the choices he makes. And the choices would obviously have some basis, which could be called his value system – or lack of one, as the case may be. In other words, even actions that occur because of a stimulus-response mechanism are themselves the result of prior choices that the person made which resulted in his now being the effect of stimulus-response. Ultimately, those prior choices violated the basic principle that one survives as well as everything else survives – the basis of any valid value system.

    So to me, it’s not at all a matter of blaming pictures. It’s simply a description of the mechanics involved – as a result of personal choice. The Emerson quote is very much a description of mechanics as well. Even karma could be viewed in terms of mechanics.

  28. Thank you. I realized the other day that all the attention I was putting on Political issues and sharing on FB would be better spent sharing words of wisdom such as those you have been sharing with us. I thank you for all you do.

  29. I am constantly appreciative and thankful for Marty (and Mosey) for this blog and how it continues to inform and evolve.

    Although I left scientology in 1993 physically, it wasn’t until 2001 that I left mentally. No longer considering myself a scientologist.

    And yet, I followed all the extant blogs – never posting but keeping up with what was happening with former friends etc.

    Marty’s blog happened in 2009 and I started posting as “windhorse” — and came out publicly as myself — Christine — the same few days after Alex Jentzsch’s tragic death, in protest.

    As a result of Marty’s blog my OWN healing as a former Sea Org member and public scientologist continued to evolve as well as finding old and making new friends because of this warm living room that we’ve been invited to sit and chat.

    It’s wonderful to see how many of us are evolving in similar directions as we forge our OWN spiritual paths.

    I read this yesterday, before reading Marty’s newest blog post and found it quite poignant :

    “If you have, in fact, deepened and growth” ‘in wisdom, age, and grace’ (Luke 2:52), you are able to be patient, inclusive, and understanding of all the previous stages. That is what I mean by my frequent use of the phrase ‘transcend and include.'” Father Richard Rohr – “Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life”


  30. Marty, I am so grateful that I recognize that time is an illusion and that there is only NOW. In this recognition of the illusory nature of time I also recognize that I, as well as each and every other life form, has all the time we will ever need to learn (remember) who, what and where we really are. Also, I am incredibly grateful to you and all those who generously participate on your blog for simultaneously being both my teacher and student. And, I do realize, that my comment so far must seem to be more than a little non sequitur with regard to your post. However, I am gradually learning that there is no such thing as non sequitur. Nothing is random in our journey through space and time.

    (Note: this comment turned into a blogment. I understand if you find it inappropriate to post.)

    When I read the Emerson quote I did not know from which of Emerson’s writings it was excerpted from. That, though, is no surprise as I probably have more familiarity with Emerson, Lake and Palmer than I do with Ralph Waldo Emerson. But, when I clicked on the link and soon found myself looking at the essay Compensation…well, the dots began to connect. I’ll explain.

    Several years ago when my wife and I were establishing a community garden in our rather eclectic and historic neighborhood there was a man, his name was Gary, that would come by and visit with us. Gary was in his mid fifties, an alcoholic and had a tall narrow body that had pretty much diminished to just being a skeleton with skin stretched over it (I was amazed that he could even move it without causing harm to it). Gary didn’t talk much but he was friendly, generous and there was a genuine kindness that flowed from him. But, if one could look beyond his smile and good nature, it was obvious that this being was enveloped in a deep and painful sadness.

    One day Gary came to the garden and gave me a copy of an old Mother Earth News magazine. He thought I would like it. I did. Indeed, I was very appreciative for his thoughtfulness and gift. I later took the magazine home and put it with some other similar mags in my library. I didn’t read it. I only quickly thumbed through it.

    Not long after Gary’s giving me the magazine, he dropped his body. Gary was a veteran and an old Air Force Colonel from the neighborhood, that Gary would sometimes work for, made sure that he had an honorable veteran’s funeral and was buried in Fort Smith’s National Cemetery. I later talked to the Colonel about Gary and he told me that years ago Gary’s two little girls had wandered away from the house and had tried to cross a busy street where they were hit and killed by a car. This explained the deep sadness that I had observed in Gary as well as the obvious self destruction he was engaged in.

    It wasn’t long after Gary’s passing when I was rearranging my library and came across the old Mother Earth News mag that he had given me that day in the garden. I laid it aside and later began to read through it. It was while going through this magazine that I came upon a lengthy excerpt from Ralph Waldo Emerson’s essay, Compensation. With Gary in mind, there were three paragraphs within this excerpt that really impinged upon me. Here they are:

    “In the nature of the soul is the compensation for the inequalities of condition. The radical tragedy of nature seems to be the distinction of More and Less. How can Less not feel the pain; how not feel indignation or malevolence towards More? Look at those who have less faculty, and one feels sad, and knows not well what to make of it. He almost shuns their eye; he fears they will upbraid God. What should they do? It seems a great injustice. But see the facts nearly, and these mountainous inequalities vanish. Love reduces them, as the sun melts the iceberg in the sea. The heart and soul of all men being one, this bitterness of _His_ and _Mine_ ceases. His is mine. I am my brother, and my brother is me. If I feel overshadowed and outdone by great neighbours, I can yet love; I can still receive; and he that loveth maketh his own the grandeur he loves. Thereby I make the discovery that my brother is my guardian, acting for me with the friendliest designs, and the estate I so admired and envied is my own. It is the nature of the soul to appropriate all things. Jesus and Shakspeare are fragments of the soul, and by love I conquer and incorporate them in my own conscious domain. His virtue, — is not that mine? His wit, — if it cannot be made mine, it is not wit.”


    “We cannot part with our friends. We cannot let our angels go. We do not see that they only go out, that archangels may come in. We are idolaters of the old. We do not believe in the riches of the soul, in its proper eternity and omnipresence. We do not believe there is any force in to-day to rival or recreate that beautiful yesterday. We linger in the ruins of the old tent, where once we had bread and shelter and organs, nor believe that the spirit can feed, cover, and nerve us again. We cannot again find aught so dear, so sweet, so graceful. But we sit and weep in vain. The voice of the Almighty saith, ‘Up and onward for evermore!’ We cannot stay amid the ruins. Neither will we rely on the new; and so we walk ever with reverted eyes, like those monsters who look backwards.

    “And yet the compensations of calamity are made apparent to the understanding also, after long intervals of time. A fever, a mutilation, a cruel disappointment, a loss of wealth, a loss of friends, seems at the moment unpaid loss, and unpayable. But the sure years reveal the deep remedial force that underlies all facts. The death of a dear friend, wife, brother, lover, which seemed nothing but privation, somewhat later assumes the aspect of a guide or genius; for it commonly operates revolutions in our way of life, terminates an epoch of infancy or of youth which was waiting to be closed, breaks up a wonted occupation, or a household, or style of living, and allows the formation of new ones more friendly to the growth of character. It permits or constrains the formation of new acquaintances, and the reception of new influences that prove of the first importance to the next years; and the man or woman who would have remained a sunny garden-flower, with no room for its roots and too much sunshine for its head, by the falling of the walls and the neglect of the gardener, is made the banian of the forest, yielding shade and fruit to wide neighbourhoods of men.”

    So Marty, this morning I reread your blog post, followed the link you provided and wound up looking at Ralph Waldo Emerson’s essay, Compensation and, as demarcations of time faded away, myriad dots instantly began to connect for me! Joyfully, I found myself being able to do something for Gary and myself now that I couldn’t do then.

    When I first met Gary and could perceive his immense anguish, I, of course, wanted to in some way relieve him from that anguish. And, even though, at that time I still considered myself a scientologist of the COS and had viable tools at my disposal…I had been away from the church and other scientologists long enough for the spell I was under to degenerate enough for many questions and doubts to surface. The sort of questions that I knew were overts and would later cost me thousands in numerous intensives. Basically, the kind of certainty that only comes with having a closed mind, as my mind began to open, had rapidly begun to lose its structural integrity. Consequently, I was in a very confused state and not much helpful to anybody at the time I met Gary. But now, though, I could do something for Gary and myself to help. I was able to forgive (without any judgement) Gary, his daughters, the driver of the car that killed the girls, the family that had abandoned Gary and myself. There was an enormity of guilt, judgement and self condemnation that was tied up there. Not so anymore.

    I continue to be fascinated by relationships and connections. They are never about what I think they’re about.

  31. Karen, well written!! I would say your Mom Phyllis and my Mom Ann must have travelled in similar circles : )

  32. Words of wisdom indeed and aligns with Oriental thoughts, such as, “Let it flow…” rather than try to react to someone else’s doing and, as your posting describes: “Every act rewards itself”. Thank you.

  33. Be grateful for Karma, because justice in the context of human society is a scarce commodity. Inevitably it seems, some segment of a society (usually a small minority) will gain leverage over the wheels of justice. They will then use that leverage to their advantage, and to the disadvantage of those less well connected. It’s a pattern that has played out again and again throughout history.

    In our time, it’s the large corporations that have the leverage. The RCS however is not that well connected in spite of their cash cushion, and their abuse of the system is about to catch up with them. Just my opinion.

  34. spyrosillusionist

    Hi Perplexed. Yes, English is not my first and I re-read the quote you told me too. I admit I derailed a little bit and my comments were not related to the quotes, but rather related to what ‘justice’ means to me lately. I should had made it clearer.

    You said “For me, its enough to see or find how I am or have created my own situations”. It’s exactly the same for me too. And I believe that is the only deep and actual handling (as-ising) for any kind of situation. I just don’t think of it as bringing justice. In any case, I’m going to look into it.

  35. You are beautiful.

  36. Ah, very good Miraldi. I understand what you mean

  37. I don’t know much about justice. I do know how to recognize success. When you stand up for the truth as you and your wife have done, you are very successful.

  38. Very well put.
    You very much clarified LRH for me. I can read the LRH quote and think with it now. Thanks.

  39. TRULY DEEP, Marty. Thank you. It is so very appropriate for what I have been following on your blog. And, particularly relevant to a situation in my own life this moment. I’ve been rereading it and FNing all day!
    I wish you and Mosey well.

  40. Thank you Monte for this very personal & touching story. I love your first sentence-that time is an illusion, and your continued analogy that consequently we have all the time we ever need to learn (remember) who, what and where we are ….so to right our wrongs.

    And, your post being non sequitur doesn’t indicate at all to me. Since, I too believe nothing is happenstance, but rather we get what we need at the exact time we need it!

    And I appreciate your thoughts….

  41. Monte, I really loved your post! One quote was especially moving – and enlightening. It was the one that begins like this:

    “And yet the compensations of calamity are made apparent to the understanding also, after long intervals of time. A fever, a mutilation, a cruel disappointment, a loss of wealth, a loss of friends, seems at the moment unpaid loss, and unpayable. But the sure years reveal the deep remedial force that underlies all facts. The death of a dear friend, wife, brother, lover, which seemed nothing but privation, somewhat later assumes the aspect of a guide or genius; for it commonly operates revolutions in our way of life, terminates an epoch of infancy or of youth which was waiting to be closed, breaks up a wonted occupation, or a household, or style of living, and allows the formation of new ones more friendly to the growth of character… “

  42. That’s what I like about you, Brian. You can come back with a comment like this. 😉

  43. Hey Ron, you made my day! 🙂

  44. Ex-Scientologists speaking up aT Church of Scientology conference on Human Rights

    “So today the police where called on us during a human rights conference by the church of scientology buffalo because we chose to exercise our right to “be free to say what we want” #19 out of the 30 basic human rights.

    How do you feel about a religion forcing abortions on their members?
    What about child labor?

    We tend to think that these issues only happen in 3rd world countries…NO they are happening right here in your own back yards within an organization that calls themself a church!

    Does your church or religion go against any of the human rights?

    Make sure you get educated on the real truth of scientology!

    Please share this information with others to help protect them from any harmful damages from the scientology cult.

    I also wrote a blog post about our experience today, http://socialmediabar.com/police-call
    ***Please share this information with others.”

  45. I’m not sure if Emmerson or Christ were right but I have long held the view that life, in all it’s incarnations, constantly strives for and is only ever healthy when it is in balance, be it the sea and the shore or myself and my neighbour.

    So many of us have lost so much under Miscavige. It would be an impossible task to document all the abuse he has reigned upon his faithful. Some of us moved on and found our own peace. Some of us are still trying. And some haven’t started yet.

    Miscavige’s fruit may well have fully ripened within the flower but I am very grateful for the balance that you both have brought to the arena.

    It is a balance many long for.

  46. Crashing Upwards

    Father Richard Rohr – “Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life”
    The title caught my attention. Seems like a nice book about connecting the dots as one ages. An opportunity for deepening ones spiritual awareness. Almost by default. A gentle “falling”. As opposed to an identity crisis or bottoming out that necessitates an awakening or realignment in order to survive. That would be crashing upwards. Whichever way one gets there, its most important that they arrive. I think most lives will have a combination of falling and crashing upwards. And that is where Justice and how life interconnects plays its part. The ratio and the timetable. But I am mainly speaking here out of pride that an author used a similar theme that I think communicates well. I am so excited. I might even buy it.

  47. Monte, the combination of philosophies and systems and teachers you have encountered in your journey have brought you to a pretty good place from which to understand. You demonstrate a good grasp on what life is about and how it functions in your postings. The blog is richer because of folks like you.

  48. The majority of ex-Scientologists appear David Miscavige clones… Screaming in Scientologist’s faces and in anyone else’s who dares to disagree with them; you witness it 24/7 online.. Very ANGRY people indeed. More angry with themselves I suspect. Bruised egos who are still In need of acknowledging their soul instead of screaming at the world about how they allowed themselves and others to be treated. They scream insults at those who behave as they did up until recently. Yet they know Scientologists will never acknowledge their criticisms as anything but confirmation LRH was right, yet again. So why do ex-Scientologists waste so much time and energy attacking the Church in this way instead of using one that would actually work?

  49. Beautiful post, Monte.

    It shows how doubt leads to humanity, and to a recognition of the vulnerable truths of our mortal natures, to forgiveness, and to an outflowing of grace for our fellows.

    The pursuit of certainty is a mistake because of all that certainty blinds us to.

    Very nice.


  50. 1. Atacking the behaviour of the Church of Scientology is staying on Target
    2. People need time to heal and “decompress”

    Sorry that you suffered, I saw your whole post on WWP

    peace be with you and wisdom

  51. “Nobody can hurt me without my permission.”

    -Mahatma Gandhi

  52. “Justice is not postponed. A perfect equity adjusts its balance in all parts of life.” Since I posted all the relevant Cash clips:

  53. Here’s a surprising one:

    “It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.” – Mahatma Gandhi

  54. Marty, you didn’t get the quote just right. Jesus said “Give, and it will be given unto to you, pressed down, flowing over, into your bosom. For with what measure you give, the same measure will God give unto you.”
    Your quote was more like the Beatles, “and in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make”. But good try.

  55. Perhaps the majority of ex-scientologists who post on internet sites where they will get some agreement for their vociferous tirades against the wrongs dealt them have that same screaming-in-your face attitude.

    But there are many more who are simply, if quietly, getting on with their lives. Many are also quietly getting on with their own bridge progress. Many are quietly getting on with the life they would have led if they hadn’t been interrupted by a cult.

    Most of the people we deal with don’t keep up with blogs or protests at all.
    Factually, the number of people who pay attention to scientology in a good or bad way world-wide wouldn’t have filled the stadium for the Huskers game last weekend.

    I would just like more people to get above 2.0 on the tone scale and have a good life. Not too much to ask.

  56. Jesus Christ is reported to have said, ‘The measure by which you give is the measure by which you will receive.’

    As with any philosophy, one only need to live what one believes or preaches for a period of time and then see if it is truly applicable.

    I do my best to live the above philosophy day in and day out. I have found that it works that way. I try to always give a bit more, but it very often works out that I receive that much more anyway.

    I believe that if one mocks up an unscrupulous valence and uses it to justify one’s dishonest acts, that eventually he’ll have justice serve him his deserts one way or another.

  57. I love your style, Karen. You just tell the truth.
    It seems that you do not particularly seek revenge, but DM and his supporters will find it on their own.
    The truth does persist, chickens do come home to roost, and yes, Karma does exist.
    Meanwhile, the light truth continues to vanish dark lies.

  58. Wonderful post, wonderful responses. i am richer for having visited this site today. Thank you

  59. “…and it’s always the best for all.” Because ‘all’ is the One and the One is ALL.

    Summerwind, I have observed in myself that there is been a persistent although varying resistance to the concept of all being One. In contemplating the notion that there were no unique individualities (souls) but only a Oneness of Soul…I would always, to one degree or another, equate Oneness with a loss. It appears I had become very attached to individuality and was a bit unwilling to let that go. However, just recently something shifted (my perspective) and I really understood that there was absolutely no loss in Oneness…that I would always be ME. If I am a Oneness I am ME. I am the ONE. I am always ME. All that appears to exist outside of myself is but a reflection of ME. I have been saying this but now I’m beginning to get what I’ve been saying.

    As you say, “There is no justice except God’s..” And God’s justice is LOVE. God is not fragmented. GOD IS LOVE.

  60. Thank you Midge. It was my both my pleasure and gift to share that story. I am most grateful to Marty, yourself and all of the other enlightened beings that continue to make this blogsite such an open and safe classroom (mirror).

    I very much agree…nothing is happenstance.

    You know Midge, for a long time I have been holding onto an idea that time was running out and that I had damn sure better be in a hurry to get where I need to get to before there was no time left for me. Now, though, I have to laugh at such an absurd idea. I no longer view time as duration anymore. I will give myself all the ‘tomorrows’ I need to remember who, what and where I really am.

    I have never not been on a spiritual journey but for a very long time I was not conscious of that being the case. Becoming conscious of my spiritual journey was tantamount to waking up from a dream wherein I was enjoying a beautiful sandy ocean beech only to, upon awakening, have the stark realization that the sand in my dream was not the sand I was in. Instead of the beautiful white pristine beech sand of the dream, I found myself standing in desert sand with nothing but desert stretching out in all directions from me as far as the eye could see. Waking up from the dream, becoming conscious of my surroundings…really motivated me to accelerate my journey. I wanted to leave the desert.

    Time is like a desert that extends and persists for as long as I make it real. Time is a false perception (an illusion) that I make real by constantly activating the past, organizing the present and planning for the future. Being judgmental, holding onto grievances, holding onto guilt, believing in victims, SPs and Saviors are all incredibly efficacious ways to cause the desert sands to stretch out before me. Forgiveness without judgement, though, pulls huge amounts of sand out of the desert. In other words, it collapses the desert. The reason forgiveness without judgment can do this is because it is a true perception that corrects the false perception. The false perception says that all the sin, guilt and fear are real while forgiveness without judgment says it never happened.

    False perception is a nonviable illusion. True perception is a viable illusion.

    Midge, here’s a link for you and, of course, for anyone else here that might want to check it out. This link will take you to the archive section of David Hoffmeister’s website. David is a well known facilitator of A Course in Miracles. I suggest checking out David’s movie page. He likes to use movies to explore metaphysics. The nomenclature will not be difficult for you to navigate.

  61. Thank you very much last seat. You say, “The blog is richer because of folks like you.” I understand this: the more I am willing to share the more I will receive. Indeed, I cannot receive unless I first give.

    As for my understanding…well, last seat…let me tell you…

    I am in a major period of sorting out right now. And from where I sit, it sure seems like a lengthy period. My experience in this so far has been somewhat difficult. I have learned that, despite how they might first appear to be, inevitably…changes in my life are always helpful. However, I must now decide all things on the basis of whether they increase the helpfulness or hamper it. Unfortunately, many of the things that I have valued before as being helpful, I find now only hinder my ability to transfer what I have learned to new situations as they arise. It seems that what I have previously valued is really more valueless than not. In other words, I’m having to let go of a whole lot of concepts (nonviable illusions) that I used to think of as being stable, reliable and valid datums. In any event, I often find myself generalizing my lessons for fear of loss and sacrifice. Even so, I can somehow see through or beyond the fear (all the fragmentation) that all things, events, encounters and circumstances are, at the end of the day, helpful. But, in a world of illusion, it is only to the extent that they are helpful that I can assign them any degree of reality. Obviously, I cannot assign ‘value’ to anything else. And yes, there are more than a few contradictions in what I have just said but those just seem to be, at least at this stage of the process, part and parcel of getting things all sorted out.

    As a side note: last week I spent a few hours listening to Abraham and Bashar on YT. It was really interesting to do so. I haven’t listened to either one in quite sometime. Doing so certainly confirmed for me that my perspectives have gone through some major shifts. Speaking of Bashar and Abraham, here’s two video titles that I really enjoyed:

    Bashar – All truths are true all paths are valid

    Abraham Hicks – Symptoms of Alignment, Vibrational Escrow version of person etc.

  62. Thank you so much Marildi.

    When I first read the essay it was the paragraph you cited (the last paragraph of the essay) that really moved me too. This time, when I read the essay I had forgotten about that paragraph but, as soon as I began to read it, the original feeling it had induced in me was again right there. Only this time something else, something very profound, also occurred. As I read the paragraph, years of linear time and incidents within that time (incidents I was not aware I was connected to) collapsed into a single instant of NOW. And, with no effort on my part whatsoever, I was able to forgive without judgement all the anguish, guilt, condemnation, hate, vengeance, grief and fear (all the misperception) that was encapsulated in that illusion which had been made very, very real, solid and enduring. Consequently, I perceived a huge relief that rippled out across time and many, many viewpoints.

    What set all that in motion but calamity? The experience were the compensations of calamity.

    There’s more but it’s ineffable (too great or extreme to be expressed or described in words).

  63. Thank you very much Alanzo.

    Yes, doubt is an uncomfortable contrast that can be used to impel us to explore and discover. In my case, it was an emerging doubt about scientology that eventually broke the ‘spell’ of false certainty and reopened my mind. Obviously, it was a different sort of doubt formula that I used than the one I learned from Ron. 🙂

    You’re so right Alanzo, the pursuit of certainty is a mistake. Certainty in a world of perception is a false perception that can be one helluva efficacious mind closer. There can be no enduring certainty in a world where everything is in constant motion. However, if one can recognize certainty as being a flexible, ever shifting and transitory component of perception…well then, it can be a viable tool in getting one to an actual certainty that can only be beyond the illusion of matter, energy, space and time.

  64. Oh my, Sounds like the Church of Scientology

  65. “Even karma could be viewed in terms of mechanics.”

    Hi Marildi,
    Interesting last sentence to your post. Can you elaborate
    from your own viewpoint?

    George M. White

  66. Marty we don’t going to wait for the Universe are we ? We have free will

  67. Monte, your a spiritual alchemist. That, to me, is what this blog is all about; Moving up a little higher, a spiritual journey. How fortunate you are to examine all aspects of your life in the light of knowledge as it comes to you. Hopefully there comes a point when the self-examination and search for light will be much less a need, allow you to rest, and you can enjoy the peace and richness of understanding your labors have provided you. You are among many kindred spirits here, as you know. May I suggest a book you might find interesting. The Cloud Upon the Sanctuary, by Karl von Eckhartshausen. Thank you again for all your sharing. As I said, the blog is richer because of you.

  68. Spyros, it can be mind boggling what some people CONSIDER justice to begin with. In the Church of Scientology overts are considered justice. True LRH tech is never actually applied it is just dreamed about. I have seen justice served, and in some cases it is not very pretty but by definition it is just. It is NOW a part of life that this can be known, it could not be known too far back down the track because the information to do it with was not actually there, *it* the unknown was only dreamed about. Life is better today than it was years ago. 🙂

  69. Hi George,
    I believe it was you who used the word “apperception” one time, in relation to karma, and that helped me understand it better. A simple definition of “apperception” is “the process of understanding something perceived in terms of previous experience.”

    Essentially, that definition is exactly how the LRH quote above could be summarized, per my understanding of it. But tell me if you don’t agree that karma can be viewed in terms of mechanics – or even if it can be, what the difference is as compared to the mechanics LRH describes. It seems to me those mechanics are the same, whether or not there is a thetan or soul involved. But I’ll defer to the Buddhist in the house! 🙂

  70. Marty knows Ethics, Mosey put it in

    (ducks for cover)

  71. Well, the CoS could be said to have violence in its heart, but it doesn’t even put on the “cloak” of nonviolence. It’s at a much lower level than that, I would say. (Hey, can it be that I am more critical than the resident Anon. ;))

  72. Wow, that’s incredible. So happy for you, Monte.

    You seem to be one of the best examples of a theory of mine: I have the idea that the TRUE end result of Scientology, at whatever point on that path, is that the person is then capable of continuing on and finding his next path or finding his own way. LRH himself said that eventually we would have to leave Scientology behind (paraphrased). Thanks for your inspiring comment. 🙂

  73. I can’t defend my brothers

  74. Damn I am going to need R2-45

  75. Thanks Cat Daddy. I’m still digesting this interview. It’s having a tremendous impact.

  76. Som,etimes you get an ego search, I did, the notion youm arewsignifacent

  77. R2-45 seems a little harsh. And I was enjoying your posts.

  78. Plato’s Theory Of Justice

    -Justice is Harmony-.

    “The fourth, and most tricky part of Plato’s analogy, is the understanding of the forms. In this stage the soul reaches an understanding far beyond the stage of thought, an understanding of the true forms. The true form of justice is one of them. Only after enormous difficulty and vast education can a soul reach this level of understanding. By the time philosopher-king’s soul reaches that intellectual height of understanding he is no longer interested in the common rewards of fame and fortune, (That leaves David Miscavige in the dust) rather he is occupied with the true forms and seeks to guide his people towards the truth and justice.

    Once acquiring this knowledge of the forms, and only then, can a ruler be fit to rule in a wise manner for he is able to truly put the interest of the whole as his own.”

    He had some fixed ideas like anyone. But the concept of justice as a harmony was WAY up there in aesthetics.


  79. I think real justice should key everybody out like music. It should make you want to jump and down and dance. It should make you want to sing. It should bring you joy or relief, make you cry or laugh. Make you say, “Amen or Hallelujah” . That is the effect truth has on people.

  80. And now comtemplate he is the enemy, He is a full blown Psychiatrist

  81. The fruit is in the seed.

  82. As in the seed of neem carries within itself the messages and beingness of a bitter fruit…the seed of mango carries messages and beingness of sweetness. Will ever the one turn out to be the other? Can you sow neem and get mango? There is law of nature ( dhamma.) and how justice is not delayed but present in the beginning in the nature of the thing itself prior to its manifestation in conditions. Is this law and justice mechanical. Perhaps. But then, do we have a choice or not as to which seeds to sow in our thought, word and deed?

  83. Reposting here from Mike’s blog:

    Mike, This may be the last thing I have to say, because when you look at “relative” this situation is pretty much over.

    Priscilla Presley had 75,000 people light a candlelight vigil for her late husband Elvis in 2012. There are not 75,000 Scientologists in the world today.

    What is the difference between her and David Miscavige? She knows how to honor someone while DM throws Hubbard under the bus every chance he gets.

    What more can you say after this? Really, not much.

    Seriously. More people pass through Graceland every year than the Church of Scientology.

    We should have put Priscilla Presley in charge of the Church of Scientology.

  84. But if we had put her in charge of the church, where would we have put David? In an HGC? No….he beats his P.C.’s. As a Commanding Officer? NO..his history in domestic abuse and injustice is too severe. As a C/S? No, he is not tech trained. As a reg? No, too much history of fraud and embezzlement. As an M.A.A.? No, too much personal history of personal out ethics history of his own. As a course sup? No, he has not much training and not even a course supervisors hat even though he announces he is in charge of a golden age of tech! Estates manager? Slim chance but the only opening left.

  85. The hate mail I have received in the last five years I can weigh in pounds. My home has been under surveillance for years, I have had OSA on my doorstep grilling me about Marty, taking away my trash , fair gaming me on the Internet and you know what? It really hasn’t mattered. Everyone in my town writes to me with offers of back up against this suppression.
    They know me.

  86. Thank you Marildi & Monte. The truth ripples out and out and dissolves lies in it’s path. How easy is that!
    Thanks for Marty making it so safe for us all to live, learn and share.

  87. spyrosillusionist

    Yes Lawrence, it seems to be an SOP to teach you about ethics and justice and then serve you the opposite, because that can drive you mad like them, if you play along all the way. I have never hated anything more than my ‘ethics’ handlings and the people involved, in my life. But that’s back then.

    You know, I think it will be good if Monique and others claim compensation for what’s been done to them. I just don’t like to see people boiling in hate for years or decades after they’re gone from the Church. I think it’s the injustice that makes people stick like that. And over that the disconnection, that sort of teases you that ‘you cannot do anything about us having f@cked with you now, sucker’. This could make me furious for life. Actually, it used to.

    I believe justice and injustice are thoughts. You put them there, or not.

    You said that now justice can be known. Did you mean in SCN, or in society in general?

  88. “The truth ripples out and out and dissolves lies in it’s path. How easy is that!”

    Nicely said! Thanks for your contributions too. 🙂

  89. Marty has already done “a mighty good amends project.” And if you had read even a fraction of his blog posts or his books you would know that, and the answers to all your other questions too.

    If you’re a Christian, what should a Christian be saying or not saying to him right now?

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