By Don Jolly in The Revealer: A Review of Religion and Media:
What Is Wrong With Scientology?
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Pingback: The Bridge Beyond The Bridge | Martyrathbun09's Blog
Very clearly expressed and it is duplicated.
Correct – I never saw Scientology as my religion. It is a philosophy and it has some high values and uses.
Tweeted and posted on Facebook.
I liked this important quote from the article
“Today, the Church of Scientology is beset on all sides, and its enemies are substantial: news outlets, publishing houses, national governments. The loudest and brashest of Scientology’s naysayers is Mark “Marty” Rathbun.”
Is Scientology a religion? Hubbard says “No”.
Thanks for letting us come here and be, at times, utterly obnoxious to you, our host, in your living room. Thanks for assisting us to move on up a little higher. I feel freer each time I come here. I can spot aggravation in myself and the urge to crush all opposition more easily – and succeed in rising above it more frequently.
Don Jolly writes well. “… crippled by twin strands of aggression and paranoia”. Yes, some have been deathly afraid of change. Which is funny, in a way, since we’re caught right up in it.
When you wrote about the book The Secret, I felt a vital part of it went unaddressed. Many appear to have thought it is all about “getting stuff”. I read it when I was in hospital, and the part that called out to me most is on gratitude. That is a concept that gave me my life and soul back – that it is OK, and even good, to be grateful. This is not lived in Scientology culture. It was an utter relief and a revelation for me, and continues to this day, with my love for myself, my life and people around me growing each day (with the usual bumps, but the general direction is toward more). There are other things I appreciate about Ms Byrne’s books, but that gratitude has been one of my keys to peace.
I think we all find our opening, sometimes in the most surprising places.
I’ve been promoting “TECH outside COS” for 13 + years. For most of that time I’ve been the most active promoter of doing Scn outside the established Church. I thought I’d be targeted by them for that. Fortunately they have mostly left me lone. For much of this time I was getting 30 or so new contacts per month to FZ forums and/or direct to auditors.
Primarily by posting success stories from all areas of the bridge.
This activity started declining when you came along Marty. Be proud,
most who came to your blog were people I’d never been able to contact
or even hear of. This includes the “Independents”. Yes there has been some friction along the way which IMO is largely irrelevant. Freezoners, Independents are the same thing, doing Scn their way. In a much safer environment.
Now I get less people contacting me or my forums. However there are now maybe 12 new forums for independent and Freezone scientologists.
Its hard to keep up with them all. 🙂
So be proud Marty,you started this new renaissance. For a long time I was pessimistic about the survival of scn technology. Now I feel the tide has turned. The weak area is auditor training. Fortunately Rons Orgs
have a good record in that area. approx 25 L’s auditors and perhaps 100 class IVs.
There is another area of training not immediately obvious. One can study
dianetics and scientology ideas in TIR and Metapsychology at university.
Sarge Gerbode, the author, had a medical degree from Yale or Stanford and a degree in Psychaitry at the other, plus work at Cambridge university England, and did a Psychiatric residency at Stanford. This latter done while he trained as a class VI auditor. His books had input and help from David Mayo.
The removal of the suppression exerted over Radical Scientology
can only help a further renaissance of Bridges beyond the Bridge.
You can be very proud of your work there also. 🙂
I never saw Scientology as my religion, either. I was brought up seeing it as an applied philosophy. I like that description, if it needs any.
Great interview! Honest, clear, resonates. Loved it.
Interesting. If you don’t believe that Scientology is a religion, and you were key to the Scientology corporate structure getting religious tax exemption, where does that leave the current “church?” I don’t mean that in an antagonistic way — I am just curious. I wonder what that means on a 1st amendment basis — legally.
For those of us who follow the blog, the interview was well done but not particularly news. But for the public at large, I think you did the subject of scientology a service, one that the current church is incapable of delivering. I look forward to the fourth book which I hope will address the integration of the subject so its value can be more properly assessed by people who are free and willing to do so.
This is what it has come to::::
++++Human trafficking and enforced abortions, Sea Org sadism (Laura DeCrescenzo Law suit)
http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/23/live-f … n-lawsuit/
+++++ insurance fraud, milking Credit cards with millions of dollars of authorized charges
unnecessary death 11 of them, negligent homicide (Narconon Law suits )
http://www.scribd.com/collections/32074 … ts-against
++++++++ IAS money extortion and Super Power fraud, Gang bang reg cycles crying *emergency* all bogus (Garcias Law Suit ) (scrolldown this link to read the actual law suit.)
http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/23/scient … s-to-come/
++++++++++ Spying, stalking, intimidation, vigilantism, harassment, hate web sites, vengeful despicable acts by the Church’s Ecclesiastical Leader (Mosey Rathbun law suit ).
http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/21/moniqu … #more-9420
This is what is playing out on the world stage. This folks, is the Ecclesiastical “church” of Scientology as will be examined thoroughly on the world stage with every court detail broadcast and analyzed for all those dirty little secrets….
I have so enjoyed tagging alongside this journey and getting to know you through your writings. This article is a fascinating summary of the state of the subject over the past few years. Thank you for an exciting ride. I always look forward to the next chapter.
“The vast majority of people who devoted time to Scientology ultimately go through the graduation process,” Rathbun wrote on August 9. It involves “reconciling what they learned and gained, differentiating it from the entrapment mechanisms involved, and finding ways to evolve and transcend as a person.”
That and several other things you said make perfect sense to me.
Personally I have four major stable ideas that guide my auditing:
1. help the person
2. Auditing is for the PC
3. C/S and audit the PC in front of you
4. The purpose of auditing is to restore the PCs full self determinism
I just accept and reject data and processes based on those stable data. What the PC does with his gains is totally up to him. I’m not creating a group or a cult or another system. Just helping people who come to me to the best of my ability.
The idea of a cookie cutter approach to help others, that works robotically every time with every person is impossible. Ron might have been right that there aren’t “different cases.” The jury is out on that one in my view. But he neglected to point out that there are “different people” and each has his own universe, his own viewpoint, his own interestes, his own moral code and his own existence.
The bridge as it’s laid out requires one to know ALL the tools and have the correct one handy for one’s skilled use.
Ron wanted a monopoly because, right or wrong, he thought he knew best. That was his right since he started this gig. I never liked the sea org or the sailor costumes or the military format. Antipathetic to my world and my world view. He lost a lot of my support because he made that choice. I believe the “only one” attitude was his personal downfall and the ultimate destroyer of the group.
In the hands of a sociopath like miscavige, the whole thing is lost. He can’t audit and he can’t train auditors and he doesn’t really want people to win any more than needed to get their money. That gig is over.
And I honestly think this is a good thing. (Got your grade III in? Good, cause it’s time for a change)
Marty, I think this guy understands you, and he understands us, something not all that common out there.
Greatness, mr Park 🙂
And there is no Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder to firewall the insane diabolical moves of David Miscavige…..
Marty, sincerely, thanx for letting me comm some of my thoughts through your blog. I have ragequit SCN 2-3 or so times the past year. Not that I was a SCNist before that. I’ve been practically out for a few years now as I don’t get audited/audit, nor intend to. However, there’s a part of being a SCNist that’s still inside me, and that must be the goals related to spiritual freedom. I guess, in that sense, I wont stop being one. I think you’re one in that sense too, no matter what you’ll do with SCN as a label.
And there’s also the other matter of giving a hand to our teamates…thanx 🙂
I was never a scientologist but as I have been dealing with their tactics and harassment Marty has always been there with timely insight to help me work thru the day to day struggles. I study Buddhist, Hindu, Christian and universal philosophy and what I have found is that all religions are shaped by the leaders morals and drivers. Scientology is a great system with a terrible leader. No matter what we do (good or bad) every action is like a seed being thrown. Some land on the sidewalk but even a few of those will grow. Love is life’s greatest journey and reward… Not money, not control, not transcendence. Love of yourself, love of your wife/husband/partner and family, and love for this paradise we are blessed to live on. We all fall by the way side from time to time but Marty is the type of spiritual leader that focuses on betterment through education. Buddha teaches us that we should never accept anything we hear from anyone unless it makes sense to us as an individual. A popular rap star Drake once said we may live in the same building but we have different views. Kindness, understanding, joy, and love provide a basis for openings to new ideas that will propel us all one step closer to nirvana.
I am so thankful for having been put thru the fire. Without their malicious disregard for my civil rights I would not have had the stillness and motivation to find true peace. I am also forever greatful for the support I got from a man I never met and never spoke to.
I owe you a steak good sir. (I’d say beer but I don’t drink)
God is good and love is great. The bible tells us that god is love. God lives in all of us and in everything. The harmony generated by the emotional stability of a pure loving heart in 8 billion people will cause an evolution of our species. Scientology along with every other religious focus can get us there with the right voices.mWe can’t use parts of our mind until we learn to let go of the things that hold us back. For me it didn’t take therapy, auditing or any removal tactic. It took me forgiving myself for my mistakes and surrounding myself with positive people and things.
Marty – you sir have really been my only connection to the ground. Thank you, with all my heart. I could have done it without you I’m sure but the universe brought you as my guardian angel and spiritual mentor. I have so much more id like to say but I hope to meet you soon and will save the internet from my heartfelt post. Your are a blessing to all those who take time to listen to you and are willing to forgive you for being a human with emotional driven actions at times. At the core of your soul you are a great man with a lion heart.
Great piece. You deserve a thoughtful, in-depth writer like Jolly to profile you.
Interestingly enough he did another piece focused in Texas about a early Sci-Fi author of the 1930s, Robert Howard. For those who appreciated the piece on Marty, you might enjoy this too:
We all have our job to do. You are doing yours well Marty.
There is a statement from men of east, “wisemen use the devil as a stepping stool.”
Out of all this mess, there is one element to this story that seems to me the greatest part:
Human beings on a search for the meaning of life. The search for the soul, God and the cause and end of suffering. The search for lasting true happiness based on the wisdom of the ages.
There is no greater search.
This Scientology Shakespearean play peopled with good and evil, search for the grail, power and corruption, reluctant heroes, preying on innocence, courageous acts etc is playing out on a grand scale.
And I can see great men and women here using the devil to transform into something better.
The search for truth is real, the search for freedom is real. The search for a happiness not just tied to matter is real.
And in your honest revelation of your flexibility, desire to change, admit being wrong and transcending, Marty, you are showing many what it means to be a student of life, a seeker, a man of integrity.
How could good, be victorious over evil, if evil did not exist.
I thank you for your sincere efforts to transform. It does the world good.
Fourth book? I must have missed that pronouncement.
What is the fourth book about?
Good article by Jolly. Helped me to see where you are at better, aligned with what I have been reading on your blog for months.
Being Jewish, always saw Scn as an applied philosophy, already had a religion I was practicing. I would not be who I am without remembering all I have through Dn and Scn, and without the years of auditor training. I can remember whole track the way most people remember this life. I can counsel anyone. I am so grateful for it all, but so horrified at the intense corruption Karen lists above.
I want you to know I made up with one of my OT friends, who it turns out, is also out of the church. I saw how self-righteous I was, once we started talking. The friendship is a gift I gave back to myself.
Karen, sure there are a lot of O/W’s that the Church of Scientology has of its own that don’t do much for anybody except Ethics Officers that make believe they are Ethics Officers. 🙂 The church lacks the correct KRC to have needed ARC to be a such a group in the first place. But because LRH says “Most people get so confused by all the lies around they come to believe anything they’re told” the church persists in the state they are in. It justifies things that *LRH said so!*. Lisa McPherson is just one example of such “standard tech” from such a group. Probably if “everybody would just drop dead and get their implant already” the church would leave people alone, because that is the kind of people they target. I know of a couple in New York city, one of whom is a Treasurer that is also a C/S (HFA) whose 2D is a reg. The one of them locates the “cases with the money” and the other one “regges them to death” and then they walk off with the cash. That is a pretty hard reality to look at for a church that wants people to believe what Tom Cruise says about them and that they are the fastest expanding religion on the planet at well. 🙂 There is no better horror story one can read than a Church of Scientology success story! 🙂 Keep up the good work Karen.! 🙂
Wonderful article Marty. Thanks for sharing it. (And good job Don Jolly, if you’re reading.)
Marty, there’s little doubt that you are on a winning streak- That is to say that all of your hard work is beginning to bear fruit.
So as you eventually wind down this blog, which feels inevitable; I and many more will miss reading your ideas and insights.
However, luckily for us, you are beginning to make a name for yourself as an author. What a good thing it could be if you were to decide to continue putting out fascinating books as you have well begun to do.
I personally will enthusiastically read every book that you publish, and I have a feeling many others will do the same. If it’s not lucrative enough in the beginning, it is only that you are still building your readership. It takes a bit to get the word of mouth out about a new author, As your subject(s) expands, so will your readership.
Forget about real estate, if you haven’t already. Realtors are a dime a dozen, but how many people can write with the life experiences that you’ve had as foundation? It would be a shame to waste all that by going into obscurity. My hope is that you will continue publishing. Even after Monique wins her lawsuit and you could afford to rest on your laurels. I hope that you won’t. For very long, anyway.
The truth is that you don’t owe anybody anything. But you may get to enjoy the author hat as much as we enjoy reading your books.
Hell, you could even go into fiction on occasion just to change up the pace.
Just some random thoughts.
Surprise us all.
Ahhh, I can’t take the mystery. Although it’s not really anyone’s business I’ll bet everyone’s wondering anyway…Was he packing during that meeting?
No answer necessary.
So what is the “goal” here? Handle personal problems? Go “exterior” with full perceptions? LRH’s work is a stepping stone to a better/more enlightened life? Personally, I got a lot of benefit from my studies/practices early on from Hubbards work. The com course was very wonderful, from an educational and life practice point. Changed some things for me that are lasting to this day (40 years later and still applicable/workable). Marty, I appreciate your honesty and experience in working the organizational problems and standing up. Maybe I just need to rethink some of my goals back when I started. My personal “goal” for achieving OT was to live my life better by improving my ARC, all three of them. Exteriorization, power, make things “go right” were never that important as a goal. Anyway, I can see where Scientology went off the rails in the mid-80s when Ron died however I still don’t see the end product. Total Freedom? Cause over mest…?
Great link, Cat Daddy.
And great article.
Brian, I always enjoy your posts.
Enjoyed the article. It continues….Worth a listen…1970.
[audio src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43776862/Ambasador%20Hotel%20Lectures/70-09-20%3DJM%201%20Freedom.mp3" /]
“Jolly” good piece. And a fair bit of writing too! So continue; I’m sorry, but there’s not going to be any RE shucking in your future!
ahhh duplication 🙂
‘you’re gonna wind up like this but you’re probably not going to be famous and you’re definitely not gonna have a lot of money.’ (Marty re Tom vid)
And it’s sad Marty because something I always prided myself with is I can ‘see me’. I’m not sure Tom can ‘see him’. Course I didn’t always see where I was but I did never quit seeking. Still don’t know exactly but I know I don’t know. Big dif.
It’s all going to work out. At least I no longer am worried the planet will blow up in the mean time ! 🙂
Thanks for your time. Hope you guys are ready for Autumn in TX.
I am following your blog for roughly three years now. I have seen the changes going on inside you bit by bit. I had similar experiences, it was just easier for me to get there as I was less involved.
First I did not feel well inside the cult, then I observed outpoint after outpoint, then I thought squirreling was going on, then I could prove it and lost my wife, then I targeted Miscavige.
But in May 2013 I asked on my blog “Is David Miscavige inherently evil?”, followed by “To squirrel or not to squirrel?” in June. The answers were close to your present opinion (close, not the same).
My purpose is to reunite my family. My kids are suffering like mad. Thank you for your openess, it helps a lot of people.
I hope most is going to be over within the next two years. Your wife must succeed! She has become a big pillar for ex-Scientologist. Fingers crossed! All the pain you two have gone through has a broader meaning. Indeed, Monique is also fighting for my family.
I am having one last wish. Please consider getting your PC folder from the cult. Times have changed, so there is a chance. Your folder is full of evidence. It is not beside the point to ask for it.
Debbie Cook’s time to resurface is coming closer as well. Stay in contact with her. She could be the one for the final stab when DM is lying on the ground already. The knife – which I just use as a metaphor here – bears the imprint: “IRS”.
Thank you Madora. Thank you very much.
More of a compilement of citations of L Ron Hubbard, still if people say this is my religion, they are free to do so provided they don’t hurt others.
It does proove he used religion as a cloak and than discovered the Church of Scientology Implant worked briljantly for him.
The unconsious mind was tapped in covertly in scientology auditinng and processes and voila everybody was Julius cesar or Napoleon in a past life with the quick fix that “If it’s true for you It’s true for you” to stop critical thinking.
Why was everybody a famous person ? That stuff is in your memory and unconsious mind.
People develloping an “Artificial Intelligence” kept feeding a computerprogramm Data and every now and than it came up with results. One stunning result was: “Most people are famous”
See how that works 😉
I was curious what you meant by this: “I can do all these great things with you using what I know of Scientology,” he said. “But y’know when I do it per the book, literally, like you said I gotta do it, I don’t want to do it to you.”
Were you just talking about just the auditing Bridge or the whole shootin’ match – policy, training, etc.?
Steve, the point is that each individual has his own goals, his own needs, his own problems. Sometimes people have a specific physical problem being caused by excessive sugar intake. You design a nutritional program with a local nutritionist, do a program for auditing to get the guy to realize why he’s decided to crave sugar and get his self determinism up to the point where he’s able to just say no to sugar. Maybe this is all he wants and he goes away happy. Maybe now he wants his love life handled, so we help him with that.
Maybe the guy comes in and he wants general spiritual awareness, no real problems in life. Perhaps a trip up the grades and onto the OT levels is just the ticket for him.
Personally, what I really wanted when I got into scientology was a way out of this place. I mean I hated the physical universe and I wanted OUT.
During the grades and Dianetics I blew most of the charge that was making me unhappy. I was doing really well. Then on OT II I went totally exterior to the physical universe. Wonderful sense of peace. I really got that this place is just a big game. Now, that’s all it is to me. I’m having a ball every day and helping others to “play” the game, not be “played by the game.”
I first got into Scientology as an “applied religious philosophy.” When it started all the bogus “true religion” trappings, with the garish Crowley cross and phony priest collars, I immediately checked halfway out.
Like Marty described, I too once had a near-death exteriorization experience. I was on the verge of a high-speed freeway crash into a solid wall of concrete. Time slowed, and my viewpoint was about 50 feet above the road as I rather dispassionately observed all the moving vehicles in a congested pack and plotted what was possibly the one route to safety (it worked; I did not crash).
Whatever that experience was, it was very real. Even if it were (“merely”) some sort of ability of mind to reconstruct reality from a different view in an urgent situation, that alone would be a remarkable ability to harness. Taken as possible evidence of consciousness to exist exterior to the body, it would be even more remarkable.
One cannot expand with a “religion”. A religion is a belief.
Expansion comes when one has lifted all “beliefs” and see’s who one really is.
I cherish the day when all peoples of earth see themselves as Love without labels.
Agreed. This is a great approach. The subject labeled “Scientology” is very broad, and includes everything done by anyone calling themselves a “Scientologist” – including TR0, the Grades, the Sea Org, the GO, forced abortion, and “The Hole.” There is insanity here, but there is also brilliance.
People who are “against” Scientology are against the insanity that entered into it (some say the insanity was always part of it). People (at least people like me) who are “for” Scientology are for the best of Scientology, as you noted above. There is a lot of good to Scientology. I will not negate the good I got out of it just because a pipsqueak like Miscavige and like-minded bastards decided that “Cold Chrome Steel” is the ideal mock-up for a Scientologist, and decided that it is a great idea to lock people up for years in The Hole and/or the RPF. Ron went down a dark path with the SO and GO, and it set the stage for DM to turn THAT into Scientology, instead of the good.
But that is not Scientology to me. Scientology to me is two people sitting across from each other, with the pure intention of doing better in life. It is also people in a course room, having a great time doing TRs, drills, clay demos, etc. And that’s it. And that is good. Everything else is add-on.
Scientology is case study in how a group wanting to do the right thing ends up going down a horribly wrong path.
From the comments on Tony’s Blog
John and Natalia,
In fairness, the early origin of Scientology Study Tech was not Hubbard, but a couple with the last name of Berner, both of whom were well educated and had formal non-Scn teaching backgrounds. They were involved in early Scientology for a number of years during a period when a great deal of the material that became “Standard Tech” was being developed by a diverse group of intelligent, educated and worldly individuals. There is detailed information available on the internet about the Berners and how Hubbard appropriated their work and called it his own.
Hubbard took the contributions of many of the early, intelligent, diverse Scientology tech creators, called their work his own, then brutally disparaged the originators and booted them out of the organization. Back in those days, the retaliation and silencing tactics of the “church” were better hidden. Former members who were attacked by the covert goon squads were disbelieved by the media and law enforcement as it was simply unreal to people-at-large that any organization would do such terrible acts to others in plain sight.
Like so much of Scn, Study Tech too has been made into a forced, lock-step process with attendant fears of “doing it wrong” and being sent to Qual or Ethics for “correction.” There is value in Study Tech and much of it is common sense. However, the promises for its application were so oversold, that whatever actual value is there is simply lost in the hyperbole of unobtainable nonsense. And its application inside the organization became intolerably pedantic and frightful, moving the subject into the arena of well deserved mockery.
I’m not being an apologist for Hubbard or the church here. But I do believe that for the sake of accuracy we should include verified information from many, many sources when deconstructing the Scientology story and not become hysterical and angry about matters under discussion just because Hubbard put his paws on them. There are many eye witness accounts available on the web about the true sources and evolution of Study Tech. It is useful to know about its history to understand how it was made into a tool for unscrupulous ends. Understanding that history, helps makes sense out of why so many otherwise intelligent folks got involved in and stayed inside of Scientology well past the point where the evidence of its malevolent intent overwhelmed whatever personal benefits adherents felt they were receiving.
(This post will be controversial and I know that a few folks on here will fell compelled to throw a fit. I understand. But try to be civil and I’ll do my best to respond in kind.) 😉
Same poster on Tony’s site:
The Berner’s offered the results of their several years of empirical study and application of an assortment of learning techniques to Hubbard just before he was about to present an already scheduled lecture to a small assembled group. The Berner’s were in the audience when Hubbard began speaking, seemingly extemporaneously, and were astounded to hear him articulate much of the very same information they had just presented to him, as if he himself had done the work!
Ron appropriated a number of things. “CSW” or Completed Staff Work, was taken from the US army. Study tech may have been worked on by many, and Ron piloted a lot of stuff with people back in the day. The origin of Study Tech came from The Factors, and I am guessing that predates the Berner’s involvement, but I don’t know.
Ron shifted in the ’60s from being collaborative to being insular. I am sure the betrayal by Nibs had something to do with it, and I am sure that the government raids and bans had something to do with it. And perhaps his diving into R6 and ultimately OT III contributed to it and the need to finally stick a stake in the ground re Clear and OT. In any event, Ron could not have gone put this together without an incredible ego and drive.
Strip out the ego from the tech, and the tech remains. And a lot of it is good and worthwhile. And I am sure some of it was borrowed, and a lot was a team effort. But, regardless, the tech remains.
The best part of being independent is that I get to decide which is good, and which is bad. I may argue about it, people can argue with me about it, people can call me brainwashed or ignorant or butt-headed or whatever, but I am the final arbiter, and I put the final stamp of approval on “This is Tech.” and “This is bullshit.” And, by the way, that stamp is not final. Another benefit of being independent is that I don’t have people breathing down my neck when I read books from others, or read “other sources.” So, I can change my mind, and learn, and alter my opinions. I actually have always done that – it’s just that now I don’t have to Dev-T myself arguing with clueless MAAs and others about what is and what is not “ethical” and what is and what is not “the tech.”
(Note the not-so-subtle use of the term “Dev-T” – another useful concept from the world of Scientology. Packs a lot of punch into four little letters and a dash.)
Don Jolly makes you sound like a scary guy – maybe you were packing – which seems more self-serving than accurate. (I understand he has to promote himself a bit – keep up his rep.)
The thing about the CofS is that at events there are big, civilization changing things being done by Scientologists all over the planet. But when you look for these “effects” in the real world you can’t find them. What you do see is the people pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes being harassed unmercifully and in some cases being legally gagged into silence. I don’t begrudge anyone who traded a settlement for their silence, by the way. In most cases it was the only way they could finally get some peace.
People still in Scientology are donating more than ever before to shore up the church and support it’s good works. But where are the good works? Is there an orphanage anywhere in the world using TWTH, or study tech to turn their lives around? No, of course not. But there are big billboards in LA making promises.
In one HCOB LRH talks directly to the Field Auditor advising that he should feel free to audit the rich and get top dollar for doing so. Then, on his own time, he should audit those who can’t afford him as this is a “kingly quality.” I can only assume this idea was partly behind the now defunct Free Scientology Center that every org is supposed to have. A more cynical view would point out that the Free Scientology Center was only there to furnish pcs for student auditors and since orgs aren’t really in the business of making auditors any more, they aren’t needed.
Still, the opportunities for real Humanitarian efforts within Scientology exist, they just aren’t being done. It seems the church can’t be bothered with really helping any entity other than itself.
Marty, thank you for taking the mental chains off the emergency exit doors.
Hubbard agrees with you! Sort of.
“An amusing sidelight on past lives is the ‘famous person’ fixation. This more than anything else has discredited having lived before. There is always some madman ‘who was Napoleon’, always some girl ‘who was Catherine the Great’. This evidently means that the person, living a contemporary life to a famous figure, was so unsuccessful that he or she ‘dubbed in’ the great personage. An auditor who runs into ‘Beethoven’, after the preclear [person] has run it for a while, finds the preclear was really the handler of a street piano in that life — not Beethoven!
“But all rules have exceptions,and an auditor once found a preclear who claimed to have been Jim Bowie, the famous frontiersman who died at the doubly famous Alamo in Texas. And after much work and great skepticism found he really did have Jim Bowie!”
– “Have You Lived Before This Life?”, L. Ron Hubbard, 1958.
Lawrence, you seem to be using this quote (“Most people get so confused by all the lies around …”) out of context. Hubbard said it as a WARNING for what some people do, not as a DICTATE for Scientologists to follow. (Not that some “Scientologists” [like DM] don’t USE it in a reversed way … but that was not Hubbard’s intention when he said it.)
You can find the original quote in RJ 37 (from 1983). Here’s the full thought to put it in context for you. “Most people get so confused by all the lies around, they come to believe anything they’re told and that’s the reason the suppressive lies. But with the Data Series, one can spot bad data so easily it is itself a sort of relief to know it. And as you burrow your way down through the layers of lies, you come to the truth. And truth blows the lies away.”
You can read the whole thing here: http://casablancatejasmyblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/rons-journal-37/
Terril, Of note, Sarge Gerbode, in addition to being a Class VI auditor (and psychiatrist), was also a tremendous fan of Carl Rogers, and credits Rogers for the development of the “client centered” approach in psychology. I think Gerbode saw that Rogers was the closest thing to Scientology auditing that psychology/psychiatry had to offer, and in order to bring “auditing” more mainstream, showed how TIR/metapsychology (auditing) were natural outgrowths of Rogers’ client-centered approach.
I would say that Study Tech most directly derives from the Comm Formula (Communication Formula, i.e. “Cause-Distance-Effect”), and the Comm Formula of course has its origins in The Factors and the Scn Axioms.
There are a number of ideas and activities taking place around the world that have their (sadly, unacknowledged) origins in Scientology: “remote viewing”, “sauna detox”, “metapsychology”. Even Tony Robbins apparently was significantly influenced by Scientology and/or auditing at some point which helped to pull him out of the ruts before writing “Awakening the Giant Within”. Don’t have the details, but Marty mentioned it here at some point.
Ego doesn’t even cover it really
“Please, spare me. Do you think the products of Scientology are LRH’s products? They are not. They are the contributions of many great people who did the work, ran the processes. That he put his name to those products gives a total false picture of how the Tech developed.
Jack Horner developed and piloted the repetitive processes. Nib’s, Dick and Jan Halpern developed the TR’s and CCH’s. Charles and Ava Berner developed and brought the Study Tech to LRH. Gordon Bell defined By-passed charge. I developed the original BPC List corrections. Gordon Bell put the Grades together. John McMasters and I developed and piloted the S&D data. John McMasters developed Power. Pam Kemp originated the drug rundown. I originated the Good and Bad indicators.
Could we have done this without LRH, probably not, but LRH could not have done this without us. It is ludicrous to keep harping on LRH….he is dead….he was a lame duck
leader from 1965 onward…..the SO and GO and all the other weird solutions were to handle LRH’s mounting legal problems. He did not have clean hands. He ran to England to escape the IRS and tax problems.
Post by Alan Walters to COSinvestigations
David Mayo wrote the NOTs material.
Ray Mithoff wrote OT VIII after LRH died.
Pat Broeker was working on writing OT 9 through 15 after LRH died.”
I am the first person to acknowledge that about metapsychology. And for the rest Hubbard obscured all of it from view by building his cult. As he did not credit people himself Karma seems to have payed him back.
“He stole the study tech outright from Scientologist and teacher, Charles Brenner, then excommunicated him.”
September 23, 2012
by Glenn Samuels
Glenn Samuels was born in Los Angeles, California. Early life was nothing out of the ordinary; school, sports, and a good family life. He was educated at the University of Southern California, but he desired a spiritual path. It wasn’t uncommon to be a seeker at the end of the sixties. Glenn chose Scientology. After college he worked in the family business, was married with two beautiful step-children, but he forsook it all to train with L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. His intention was to do something with his life that would help mankind, but these plans were eventually perverted and prevented.
Glenn lived and worked aboard the Flagship Apollo where he was personally trained as a counselor by Hubbard, first in 1971 then again in 1974. When the ship was sold in 1976, Scientology moved their headquarters to Clearwater, Florida. Glenn continued counseling and case supervision working with Hubbard as new procedures were introduced. Upon his appointment to the Commodore’s* Messenger Organization in 1980, he moved to International headquarters located in Gillman Hot Springs, California.
*Hubbard was called Commodore when Scientology owned ships, the title carried forward even though he moved to land.
Great Associative thinking Margaret.
“I’ve never met Glenn Samuels. However, I learned a little something about him in 2001. At that time I visited world renowned recording artist and producer Stanley Clarke at his home. My assignment was to recover him to the Church so that Chick Corea could participate in a reunion of Return to Forever. Stanley was very gracious and sincere. He told me he was impressed with all my arguments, but that one fact made him hesitant to return. That fact was that his friend Glenn Samuels had been declared for no apparent legitimate reason in the early eighties and he was unwilling to disconnect from a true friend. RTF ultimately did reunite for a tour last year. How they dealt with the matter of Stanley and how he dealt with his friendship with Glenn I do not know. I do know that Stanley seemed awfully sincere in 2001 and I was impressed with how impressed he was with his friend. So, I was intrigued when Glenn contacted me with his declaration. Please read it thoroughly. He imparts some perspective I think is valuable to all of us.”
Margaret, I think you are reading me out of context. 🙂
The truth is hard to discern sometimes. Could be the Berners had something to do with it. Could be they did all of it. Was it solely them? I don’t know. At this point it is moot, except to use as a hammer to try to discredit LRH. I’ve seen other writings from the time when LRH quoted and gave credit to others for various things. So, who knows?
And, anyway, we all know it was Auntie Mame who invented study tech when she asked young Patrick to write down all the words he didn’t understand:
“Libido, inferiority complex, stinko, blotto, free love, bathtub gin, monkey glands, Karl Marx… is he one of the Marx Brothers?”
Is Buddhism a religion? Budhha says “No”. So why is it considered one of “The world’s great religions” in English speaking, and probably most European languages? I think it is because these cultures actually have no word for what “buddhism” really is. Or for what “Scientology” really is. That is why LRH used the word “scientology” in the first place, whether he actually coined the word or not.
Do the research, CD. You’ll find the evidence.
Certainly possible! 🙂
CD, do think think it’s possible that the Berners (and Hubbard) used Scientology principles to develop Study Tech?
It seems we’ve got a lot of egos involved.
None of this bothers me. As the Bible says, “there is nothing new under the sun.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1%3A9&version=NIV
And of course, people were influenced by Scientology, either directly or indirectly. I was listening to an NPR show yesterday where a therapist was talking about techniques for dealing with PTSD, which was to get the person to re-experience the trauma so that the horror is gone, and it just becomes a “bad memory.” This is lock-running. To do it Dianetically, the trauma would erase – but you see how this entered into the Psychological canon. Of course, there are other PTSD treatments which little to do with LRH, but which are intriguing nonetheless, such as Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_and_reprocessing
Ron touched on some of this with the GE – but it never went far. But one thing I do know – the body will react to the world almost independently of the being residing in it. I don’t get it, but it happens.
I’ve had conversations with Glen and by and large agree with him.
You quote Marty a year ago. he may well be in agreement with Glen now.
CD, I know for a fact that those folks in Metapsychology who are aware of its origins, absolutely do not want it to be associated with the “S word”. They have worked very hard to “integrate and evolve and transcend” and the last thing they want is to be associated with “that organization”, as one of them once said to me. Sarge worked very hard to reach an accommodation with “that organization”. They do not want any links acknowledged, and that’s why I don’t post about them.
Marty could be the most popular and rich out-of-the-Church-Scientologist. It takes some good quality to sacrifice that in exchange for intergrity.
I don’t always fully agree with all the whys and hows Marty says that SCN is like it is, but that’s so secondary, as I agree that the present SCN situation is pretty much how Marty has been describing it.
Time to honestly look at the workability of the ‘always workable’, people? Or is what OT 8s describe the best possible that a being can be?
“I’m not sure Tom can ‘see him.’”
When that Tom Cruise video was first shown to staff, I was flabbergasted by how much his beingness was like DM’s. I seriously wondered whether it was the same thetan over both bodies! It popped in my mind that LRH had said somewhere that this is possible. Anyway, that’s how much he seemed to me to be what I would now describe as being in DM’s valence.
Two humans having an encounter in a saloon in the middle of Texas. A pleasure to read.
Ode To All Spiritual Warriors: the true revolutionaries
The Front Lines of Planetary Revolution
All over the globe since time immemorial humans have been warring revolutions with violence and the politics of ignorance based upon common knowledge of how “things are.” This limited common knowledge, fashioned by the hypnotism of cultural imprinting has a fatal flaw: humans lack of self realization.
Not knowing self, not knowing the potential of self, believing in political and religious leaders as having answers, being imprisoned in contemporary mindsets with limited access to deeper knowledge of true human potential, human beings flounder on the shores of this one cliche: insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
We, in free democracies, have a ground swell of new beginnings, upsurging in the market place of human potential.
And that upsurge is the rising of the new spirituality. Based on unity, love, enlightenment, finding the source of power and happiness within, service to others, meditation, self inquiry, self realization, God realization, Nirvana, spiritual practice, seeing the Universe as a living conscious Being of which we are an integral part.
This then is the front line of the new revolution. This is the second coming: each of us working to consciously evolve back to our Source, back to the Light. There is no greater work to be done. There is no greater revolution.
In this search is a great power!
Call your self a Scientologist, a non Scientologist, a Catholic, Buddhist. Atheist, Hindhu, Yogi, Humanist! Who cares! What difference is there really.
Cognitions, realizations, enlightenments etc. knows no prejudiced circumscriptions hemmed in by limiting labels based on human ignorance.
The Scientology cognition, the Christian rapture, the Buddhist enlightenment are all the same: human beings striving for happiness within the natural tendencies of their own personal evolutionary bias.
Celebrate the differences, don’t just tolerate them.
Happiness knows no sectarian divide. The same cosmic laws that govern the spining atoms of infinite creation everywhere also govern the lives of men. All is happening right now. This grand family of souls, animals, sky, earth, the stars, the devas dancing in joy in the land beyond our dreams.
Banish hate, pray for idiots. Bless them with the secret poetry of the electromagnetic waves of your good will.
Like a soul tsumani with unstoppable force, we can affect all time and space with goodness and bring down this empire of abuse and replace it with smiles and friendship.
David Miscavige, you cannot for all time resist love and goodness. The death of your childhood under the tutoring of “war against the enemy” will crumble beneath the weight of your own innate sacred self.
As the encroaching darkness, the boomerang effect of your own actions, comes to greet you, you have only a few recourses.
Remember being a child? Remember the simple days? Sleds on snowy school canceled days?
Go back to the beginning. You must, because your empire is burning.
This post should be addressed to “Terrill”
Thanks. Howard wrote some great stories. I recall one in which the protagonist was a dying man recalling a past life in which he died from the injuries he suffered battling and slaying an enormous predatory “worm”.
It was a compliment
Discredit, funny word as he took credit for other ones work.
I say De-credit
I really liked this summary of a lot of the state of Scientolological things, Les.
You see ego’s I see people, If you say Scientology is Scientific than you have to give credit were credit is due. You can’t do a switch and bait with that. I can see a compromise.
You are a Science guy aren’t you ?
I amm swiss at the bmoment on that. what came from what. Scientology itself had input to come into existance,. The thing is Hubbard has declared almost ALL contributors to “his”Tech
Click to access The-ESMB-Posts.pdf
Post #25 20080405-1805
Alan, Do think that LRH disregarded earlier tech for a easier dumb down version that would
make it easier on auditors to deliver resulting in more delivery = more money, more money.
He was in the middle of GPM running – in September, 1962 he engaged in an out 2D situation that
completely ARC broke his auditor (MSH). At that point he lost his auditor.
Over the next year the sessions began to go bad – lots of out lists and wrong items…….life and Scio
went under attack, he went under attack.
In early 1964 there was also was a massive Ascension Experience when he thought he and his
creation Scientology was going to become a household name – the “Look Magazine Article” – which
ended up being a complete make nothing of him and Scio.
Whilst in the AE state the Opterm or darkside kicked in – he flipped into a tremendously Powerful
SP Identity. These identities do not allow for any two-way flows – they operate from an “I am right –
do what I command or die!” position and action basis…….this builds up tremendous counter-force –
he set about subduing any counter-forces.
The introduction of Ethics LRH style was enforced into Scientology.
The killer of this is: each being feels they are wrong, consequently each you gives itself wrong
items and wrong whys. (BTW it is easier to confront self than the Powerful SP Identity.)
To be sane a being or Organization must be willing to be both total cause and total effect (or right or
wrong) – this allows for the charge travelling back and forth along the command and Organizational
lines to dissipate and the being or Organization to easily operate in PT in a high mood level.
LRH then set about building a replica of an Operating Games Matrix. The FEBC Tech covers the
top part of the Games Matrix – the processing and training tech covers the next level below that –
the Ethics Tech covers the bottom part – though all three span all levels.
For some reason LRH dropped the lower level tech and tried to quickie it – probably felt he was
running out of time.
I know for a fact LRH deliberately omitted Tech that would let people go free……as I inadvertently
did on one experimental process……that process was omitted completely from the Tech Volumes – I
ran it on the 15th Nov 1962.
To my knowledge all Ethics – Tech – and Admin issued by LRH was designed for him to keep
control over the Organizations, staffs, pc’s and OTs.
But obviously it did not produce what it promised.
Without doubt LRH was the most dichotomous dramatizing being that one could get entangled
However Sarge Gerbode wrote in the forward to Metapsychology :-
“I feel it would be wrong not to acknowledge the wealth of information
I found in the scientology materials.”
And later on one year he was both practicing psychaitry and psychotherapy in the day, and Scn in the evening and commented
“… I found my work in the evenings to be much more effective than the work I did during the day.”
This is post two of the thread started by Alan Walter
Posted by Alan Walter on ESMB. Roger and Paul helped find/compile it. Alan was an Auditor?Tech guy and Paul is a Freezone Auditor/Tech guy still. Roger I don’t know.
What was so wonderful about these masters was their willingness to freely share their new discoveries with each other. Between us each had in excess of 5,000 clients. This was quite a vast undertaking, more grassroots than anything else.
Each of the 85 masters probably spent several millions of dollars each, over the years in their pursuit of knowledge, truth, study, training, coaching, processing and research.
What was in play was a giant network of very dedicated, on purpose team gradiently discovering the secrets of how to unlock the truth and knowledge of our spiritual, mental and human potential.
We can estimate that several 100’s of millions of dollars has been invested to uncover their knowledge and discoveries.
Most of the masters were in their 40’s in the beginning of the 1960’s. Make no mistake, each of them was a giant, unbelievable brave, incredibly persistent, thoroughly dedicated.
They each pursued their goal with a passion and zeal that lasted every working moment of their life (even their sleep moments, most likely). Any major discoveries would be shared by the team. Sadly to say, today almost all of that team has died. Much of their incredible wisdom and knowledge went with them. Luckily, we have almost all their secrets and knowledge which they so freely shared.
The team of masters consisted of a former priest, 2 former rabbi’s, 2 former Buddhist monks, several ministers of other religions, 2 professors, 2 C.E.O of Fortune 500 companies, 2 writers, several teachers, several champion athletes, 2 actors, 2 fashion models and several top musicians.
Jack Horner a former actor discovered and developed the ‘repetitive process procedures’, it took him 7 years to fully prove out this procedure, testing it over several thousand client hours – millions of dollars were spent by these clients – yet we can teach a person how to do this in a couple of hours.
Gordon Bell in early 1963 discovered the subject of by-passed charge and where it stemmed from, he also put together the material that is known as the grades.
I had dinner with Gordon Bell that evening in during which he shared with me his discoveries. From those discoveries I developed the first Correction Lists.
List 1 was designed to handle UPSETS caused by by-passed-charge. The second List became List 4. The purpose of which was to handle by-passed-charge caused by wrong answers and wrong items.
Another discovery I originated was the Good and Bad Indicators – these indicators stemmed from my studies of the Stock Market. Many other students contributed to this including Hubbard.
Ava and Charles Berner, professors of English discovered and developed much of the study technology we use, they had spent almost 40 years each in their research – research that had spanned many of the foremost educators down through time – we teach what they discovered in 3 weeks.
Richard Steeves, Jan and Richard Halpern discovered and developed the procedures that are the forerunners of our SPIEPIR technology. This technology has been in development for 52 years – 100’s of thousand of hours and millions of dollars have been spent developing these procedures – we teach how to do it in a few days.
Hubbard’s son L. Ron Hubbard Jr., developed the forerunner to our Presence drills, these were taken from Buddhist Meditating Exercises that were 2000 years old.
Possibly their greatest power and influence came in conjunction with their wisdom, knowledge and know-how was their immensely influential direct networks.
Almost all of these prime movers and shakers over the last 50 years were connected to receiving coaching and processing either directly or indirectly from these masters.
It must be understood that these masters weren’t just masters in these fields but in other fields as well. They were philosophers in the fullest sense.
Philosophers study life and all the aspects of life. A true philosopher has not only studied life but has lived life to its fullest.
Alan Walter on ESMB, Auditor and Tech guy:
One of the most difficult things to do is report accurately.
For example: I and several other Scio’s had dinner with Chuck and Ava Berner at the Forrest Row Hotel, it was June 1964, the night before Chuck and Ava were to meet with LRH to go over this new discovery they made to do with study.
We were all enthralled with what they had discovered.
Imagine the shock we had when LRH told us in a the lecture that night that he had made a momentous discovery in the field of study.
The data he gave was almost word for word with what the Berner’s had discussed with us the previous night.
There was no mention of the Berner’s who were in the audience.
They were devastated.
What made me sick was I made LRH right to do this……I did not support the Berner’s…..I simply went elsewhere.
I put my own survival above my honor……what a price I was to pay for that.
Not only me but all of us…….for I believe that is the moment that LRH went to the dark-side.
That was also the last real lecture on GPM’s. It ended mid lecture -abruptly – then he flipped and began to talk about the study tech.
I realize LRH was dichotomous, but so are we all….that is what the GPM Tech was supposed to handle.
OMG Cat Daddy……………. I am not done reading yet. I am stunned. You guys have got to check out Cat Daddy’s link above….. please!! Miraldi and Valkov…… please!!
“Various pics of Scientology in the 80s and 90s, unpublished, until now…”
Yes. It is an excellent book collecting Alan Walter’s posts on ESMB. Alan was one of the original researchers and co-creators of Scientology. He was never acknowledged by LRH and was eventually declared. It is too bad he never wrote his own memoirs a la Marty’ book, but he said more than once he did not like to type!
There is much philosophical/technological material in these posts, and information about the evolution of Scientology.
Brian, I agree – it’s fascinating. Thanks for provoking…I mean piquing my interest. 🙂
Cat Daddy – thanks for the great link.
Yes, but that was a long time ago.
Ah, reminisce. I remember those happy days. My youth exploded right into them. I learned a lot, but so happy I’m out lol!
Ex-Scientologist story #215, Hubbard’s PR assistant, and lover.
“Barbara Kaye” (a pseudonym for Barbara Klowden Snader) was a pretty blonde 20-year-old in 1950 when she became L. Ron Hubbard’s PR assistant and, before long, his lover. For the next year she was in a unique position to see the changes in Hubbard during his meteoric rise and fall from 1950-51. In 1986, she was interviewed by the British writer and journalist Russell Miller for his biography of Hubbard, “Bare-Faced Messiah.”
I was trying to get into PR and was sent by a employment agency to Dianetics and [Ron] was looking for a PR assistant – someone primarily to answer the scurrilous attacks the press was making on Dianetics. I was hired. He was in the big old governor’s mansion at Adams and Hoover – it used to be the governor of California’s mansion.
This was during the peak of his success with Dianetics in 1950. This all took place in 1950-51. I started doing a lot of administrative things, arranging things. We had lots of conversations, he’d ask me for advice about this and that. Sometimes I worked late and he took me home – I was living with my parents at the time – and one thing led to another. I was also hiring people, I hired a secretary for him.
He interviewed me for the job. I had read about him, had read about Dianetics. At that time I had been through university with a major in psychology – he bounced ideas off me because he had no background whatsoever in psychology. He told me that before he wrote Dianetics, because he had no background in psychology, he went to the University of Chicago library and asked for the latest book on psychology and read this book – that was the only thing he had ever read on the subject. . . Most of my time was spent answering [press attacks] – he had a clippings service and every time Dianetics was mentioned I would write to the reporter and reply and defend it. I was writing to columnists and magazines all the time. No one had anything good to say about it. . .
I was very young at the time and was not as concerned with other peoples wives. I just didn’t think about it. On a New Years Eve he spent with me he was supposed to have been at a party with his wife and he didn’t go home and he said she made a suicide attempt. Then there was the kidnapping of Alexis [Hubbard] and so on.
After he took Alexis …I knew Miles [Hollister] very well, it was really surprising to me when he later took up with Sara.
I lost track of Ron when everything went into a shambles and there was this bad publicity in newspaper about Alexis when he took off. He had gone home and found Miles in bed with his wife and that’s when he took Alexis; he thought he was perfectly justified to do this. He said they were going to try and put him into a mental institution, he was afraid they were going to commit him. . .
When he took off I only knew what I read in the newspaper. The next time I heard from him was Wichita when he was living with this oil baron [Don Purcell]. He started writing me and wanted me to come there. I went there and he was like Howard Hughes’ last days, really in a bad depression. His fingernails were long and curved, his hair was stringy. He met at the hotel and was in such bad shape, he was trembling, like someone who should be in a mental institution. I knew then… he wanted me to marry him, he’d bought me a ring but I knew then he was such a deeply disturbed man it could never be and I left the very next day.
Scattered in the interviews are some real gems of history. This is not the history that his followers give credence to, but nonetheless, she was there.
He said he always wanted to found a religion like Moses or Jesus.
I think he probably made up a lot of the case histories in the first Dianetics book. He was not academic and never did any research.
He was a character, it was like watching a fascinating character on stage playing a role. I was never bored when I was with him. He was a colourful personality and acted out all the unusual things that were in his mind, that’s what made him so fascinating. People who are manic have this enormous energy – it fueled talking and thoughts. He was charismatic, communicated an energy.
The two interviews with her, and the notes that she made at the time in her journal can be found here: http://www.scs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm
Just desseminating, I know some things must hit hard. But if you acknowledge Scientology as a joined effort you have a myriade of sources instead of one within the “body of knowledge”
Hubbard kicked out anybody that has contributed in the end. David has to kick out more because more people are smarter that him than was in the founders case.
You can have a scientology that has many sources as many people contributed. That is actual being honest to yourself about things Valkov.
Alan Walter declared
David Mayo declared
list goes on and on
“A river has many sources”
I am hoping the times comes again. From Freud to Hubbard to Meta-Psychology. L Ron Hubbard deserves a place with auditing and processes but so do all the others that have contributed to the “body of knowledge: that is Scientology. I will defend Hubbard on that but “with warths” and all that is. I believe in acknowledgements where they are due.
The compromise is Hubbard was a Co-contributor
“LRH then set about building a replica of an Operating Games Matrix. The FEBC Tech covers the
top part of the Games Matrix – the processing and training tech covers the next level below that –
the Ethics Tech covers the bottom part – though all three span all levels.
For some reason LRH dropped the lower level tech and tried to quickie it – probably felt he was
running out of time.”
Roger Boswarva 1/5 – The Mood Scale
Roger Boswarva explains observations and discoveries he and Alan Walter have made concerning the emotional tone scale and relationships between cause and effect. This speech was made at the 2009 Free Zone Conference held in Pasadena California on 3 Oct 2009.
I was reading in A Course in Miracles (ACIM) today and when I read…
“This is the characteristic of the ego’s judgments. SEPARATELY, they seem to hold, but PUT THEM TOGETHER, and the system of thought which arises from JOINING them, is incoherent and utterly chaotic. For form is not enough for meaning, and the underlying LACK of content, makes a cohesive system impossible. SEPARATION therefore remains the ego’s chosen condition.”
I instantly thought of this line from the Bridge Beyond the Bridge article: “But these practices are isolated elements of a system that, as a whole, he finds crippled by twin strands of aggression and paranoia.”
The ACIM excerpt: http://courseinmiracles.com/5-the-shift-to-miracles/urtext/14-bringing-illusions-to-truth/the-shift-to-miracles
Enormous source of information provided by Roger B. Who got involved in 1957. Even an SP as I can understand it. 😉
The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasadena
“Here is the video of my presentation at the FZ Conference in Pasadena, October 2-4, 2009.
What I have done below is present additional information concerning my presentation and the related tech points for you ESMBers, with some extra charts and improved diagrams so things are easier to follow.
Also, there is a key word I used early on in my presentation that, due to sound quality, is not quite clear to the ear in the video. That word is “vector”; it is used in the phrase “a catastrophic reversal of spiritual vector.” (A vector, by definition is “a quantity with direction and magnitude.”) The context of all this is explained in my notes below.
I have presented my accompanying notes in four parts over several pages for easy access.”
Cat Daddy. All of these links should be required reading for Scientologists.
These links are essential.
And regarding the tone scale – when it hit me recently, that Ron put sympathy well below hate on the tone scale (I hadn’t re evaluated the tone scale since 1982), it seemed to me a perfect illustration in what went wrong with Ron. No sympathy for the people he hurt or stole from. None!
And then he instituted, organized, trained people and indoctrinated them into that minset. That is why hate for SPs and destroying enemies became sacred in Scientology.
Ron created an organization that played out his fear of, and violence against, enemies.
This is the begining of the philosophy of hate that DM was trained in. Being such a young man, all those early Sea Org and CMOs believed Ron. These young people worshipped him and bought into his paranoia. Maybe even paid money for it.
The Church of Scientology is the institutionalized paranoia of Ron.
What DM is dramatizing is Ron’s institutionalized paranoia. Albeit more like an uneducated rube and more physically violent, but it comes from LRH.
This Buddha needed a psychiatrist. Mabye meds. He sounds manic by all accounts and suffered delusions of persecution.
And us young impressionable, curious, naïve seekers assumed a portion of HIS mantel through focused study.
Think about it. This whole crazy mess is Ron’s mind becoming an organization.
And everytime we impute the reputation of anyone daring to be critical of Ron, the institutionalization of that persecution complex then becomes your world view.
It became the para militarization of his persecution complex.
And when sympathy is below hate on the tone scale, you have well trained GO and OSA black ops thugs fighting windmills.
Only the windmills are real people being subject to violence.
This man was successful in creating a religion out of an unstable mind.
And rake in millions!
To be “clear” I never doubted what you posted. Margaret I have seen it before.
And I am now convinced, that The Ole’ Man, consciously chose DM because is recognized ruthlessness.
Sorry, “because (he) recognized ruthlessness
This song reminds me of LRH, or LRH reminds me of this song, or both…..
oops here is the link:
I must say, Brian, much as I like a lot of your posts, my take on the Tone scale and where “sympathy” lies on it, is quite different from yours.
As I understand it, the Tone scale is an observation of succeeding flows, dispersals, and ridges. Energy phenomena. What you have in mind when you hear the word “sympathy” and what LRH was referring to when he used the word may be 2 very different things. I think “sympathy” maybe as good a word as any, to describe that particular point on the scale, which is a kind of obsessive-compulsive, below the level-of-awareness agreement. I think what you refer to is what I call “empathy”. And I think you interpret it the way you do out of a kind of confirmation bias, because you look for things that can be interpreted as further examples of LRH’s “evilness”.
I wasn’t in the Sea Org, but from reading the accounts and comments of many who were, What I have gathered is that Sea Org operated on different principles, and that one of these was “We don’t use ARC in the Sea Org”. It would appear the so-called “Cold chrome steel” valence originated from the idea that ARC (and its corollary, the Tone scale) were not to be used by Sea Org members.
In any case, “sympathy” on the Tone scale represents a position where a person feel whatever the dominant emotions are, in his immediate environment. It is essentially “mob feeling”, where th eperson’s emotional set resonates like a tuning fork to the vibes he is receiving from his environment. Thus it could include being in a mob and kicking the shit out of someone simply because that’s what everyone else is doing. It represents a person pretty much out of control emotionally. Like those gang rapes recently occurring in India. Those are precisely the results of that position of the Tone scale, regardless of what LRH called it. Perhaps “sympathy” is not the best term for it, but it does make sense to me to call it that. It precisely lacks any sense of “empathy”, “feeling with” the victim.
If you have ever gotten angry in response when someone got angry with you, that is “sympathy” at work. It is not a particularly a good thing, although it has some positive aspects also.
That’s my take on this issue.
Add: I think, Brian, that “sympathy” as you mean it, is the opposite direction of flow, as LRH meant it on the Tone scale.
You think of it a a compassionate outflow from yourself towards another; the position on the Tone I read as a rather automatic agreement with an inflow from another or from the environment. If you automatically agree with the feelings emanating from others around you, that would be “sympathy” in the Tone scale sense.
Valkov, I agree with you.It’s not the same definition. Ron redifined the word sympathy.
If you look up the word sympathy in the dictionary, it’s meaning has nothing to do with the image of a “spineless tweebie wimp hoping for forgiveness and full of shamed weekness” that we see on the illustrated Tone Scale.
That is not what the word means. He had an MU or he knew what he was doing.
You see, if you can get a person to denigrate feeling for others, you can then use the greatest number for the greatest good to people campaigns against enemies.
AND, not being afraid to hurt another in a just cause.
By this time the magic sets in: we now have a normal person who’s convinced that hurting others is a just cause. And feeling bad because of it is considered “low toned”.
It is better to hate than feel sympathy. This is the secret message of the tone scale that points to something not right.
He scewed with the word sympathy. Like he did with “open minded”. The word grief is forever cemented together with an engramic chain. Its the only cult thought club I know of with the statement, “oh, well, he’s being griefy.”
It’s very subtle when it gets laid in as an accepted agreement. But extracting it takes years.
But on a positive note: I am ever grateful for my love of words and love of etymologies.
Whoever brought love of words to Ron in those early days I am very grateful. And glad he included the info in our experiences.
Also a strong knowing that I can find the root cause of something. I thank Scientology for that.
Valkov” Thanks, that added quite a bit to my understanding of the tone scale. I just realized that lower emotions are a physical universe thing, manifestations of energy flows and such, being secondary considerations invented by theta. I had thought of sympathy, in the tone scale sense, being simply “latching on to grief, assuming the dominate position and holding it in place.” Sympathy may not be the perfect word for that position, but after just a little bit of reading there shouldn’t be any trouble getting exactly what was meant.
Anyone can misunderstand anything when they want to. That is why Ron was often long winded. An attempt to fully explain an exact principal in a way that cannot be misinterpreted. An impossible task.
Follow the Tao and see exactly what is there, not what you already think.
Maybe it just doesn’t belong on the paradigm of the tonescale as it is based on the individual itself and not outward
One thing is certain without L Ron Hubbard no Scientology.
that is deep Valkov
CD, I don’t know if that’s true that Roger Boswarva discovered LRH missed something just above 2.0 on the tone scale, as he claims on the video. On that forum that you posted the link for, which also has the video, he wrote:
“Note the level of ‘Opposition’ occurring between boredom and contention/antagonism. This is where a Being flips from positive to negative.
This is the level of spiritual vector reversal I speak of in the video.”
In the video he says that LRH missed this spiritual vector reversal. But in SOS, LRH wrote:
“The physical universe and what we have called the theta universe are each based upon the principle of survive and succumb. So far as life is concerned, everything above the 2.0 level is survive, and everything below the 2.0 level is succumb. Above the 2.0 level, the organism tends toward life; below the 2.0 level, the organism tends only toward death.”
To go from survive to succumb sounds to me like a “reversal of spiritual vector.”
Btw you cut off the first part of the URL. It should be:
That was a very interesting look at what your mental/emotional state was when the interview took place. Thanks for sharing.
re basically 2 lines of personal development and they are both necessary and need to be balanced – the line of increasing Knowledge, and the line of increasing Being. It is this latter line that I believe many people search for. There are books upon books of Knowledge available, but there are not so many paths or ways laid out in a practical, step-by-step fashion, that a person can apply and follow to increase their Being(ness). I think no matter what else he may be held responsible for, LRH did a tremendous service to compile so much on that side of things.
Well somehow I managed to cut off the opening paragraph of my comment to you, CD.
It was along the lines of “That is why I don’t condemn LRH, because inspite of his ego and character flaws, he put together a great collection of not only Knowledge, but the practical side of self-development methods.
It has been said by past philosophers that there are 2 lines of development that must be followed simultaneously by any person who wishes to reach better states – the line of Knowledge and the line of Being. It is necessary to develop both.
That was more or less how that comment started but was somehow cut off.
It’s a great song and a very good movie! 🙂
Thank you and I wasn’t trying to sway you in any direction. Just wanted you to show somebody who knew Alan Walter. And if you watched it you will noticed he and Alen had a different viewpoint on it.
And thank you for informing me I appreciete input.
Roger joined in 1957
I disagree, David decieed him
If selfpitty is ment by Sympathy on the tonescale it would make more sense to me.
Miraldi reposted for discussion purposes on ESMB in Rogers thread
I enjoyed reading Don Jolly’s well written article but I must say, the title of the article, which is also the title of Marty’s blog post, can, IMO, stand on it’s own as a subject of discussion. The Bridge Beyond the Bridge. What a concept! I’m a bit surprised that no one commenting thus far (at least that I have seen) has explored it. That mentioned, since the instant I read it the idea began speaking to me so I have been exploring it for myself. As always explorations such as this turn over and roll around more perspectives than I could ever possibly share, nevertheless, there are some perspectives that I think I can put into words.
I have always really liked the metaphor of a bridge being used to illustrate spiritual transition from a lower level of consciousness to a higher one. For a long time I thought this was an LRH original but, while still being a scientologist, I one day spontaneously (seemingly spontaneous) did a search of the term ‘Bridge’ and discovered, much to my surprise, this was no Johnny-come-lately spiritual metaphor. Interesting…I thought.
After I left CoS and then a while later ceased identifying myself as being a scientologist, I adjusted my belief system to include the likely probability that there were many viable ‘Bridges’ that one could cross to reach a higher level of consciousness. However, until only a little over a year ago, I considered that any such ‘Bridges’ existed only outside of Self and would be found in form/structure so that’s where my attention was focused i.e., techniques, modalities and how tos.
Well, one thing led to another and while I thought I most certainly was only going around and around the ladder, there came an instant where I realized that I had actually been pulling myself, rung after rung, up the ladder through a dense fog of misperception. Then, there came an instant. And in this instant, I knew exactly where and what my ‘Bridge’ was…the where was within and this is where it had always been. Suddenly, with this recognition, words and phrases like ‘beyond’ and ‘moving on up a little higher,’ when used in a spiritual context, meant (to me) going within. I know, it’s paradoxical. But I’ve begun to notice that the more in alignment I become with Spirit, the more paradoxes present themselves in my experience. I have chosen to believe this is a good thing. 🙂
I am sure that there are many, many symbols for what I came to recognize as my ‘Bridge’ and I suppose that, like in my case, with their varied connotations are not necessarily thought of as being a ‘Bridge.’ A few of the symbols I’m familiar with that represent my ‘Bridge’ are: intuition, gut, sixth sense, IGS (internal guidance system), the voice within, the Holy Spirit and myriad others. These symbols for me represent my ‘Bridge’ but what is that exactly? It is the ME that never desired to be something other than what it was. It is the ME that never went to sleep and dreamed of a split Mind. It is the ME that sees no fragmentation, imperfection, sin, guilt, fear, pain, sorrow, misery, death, separation or duality. It is the ME that abides in Love, Peace and Joy. This ME has never not been there and has never not been guiding the sleeping ‘me’ that believes and behaves as if the dream were real. This is the ME that guided me to read DMSMH then guided me into my SC experience and then guided me out of SC when that crossing had been made. This is the ME that guides me to read what I read, watch the movies, videos and TV prgms I do, meet the people I meet, comment on blogs, write blogs, travel to various geographical locations and so on. That noted, I have not always listened to or followed the guidance of ME. Indeed, on many occasions I treated ME as if were some pesky gnat that needed to be squashed. But ME knows exactly who I Am, has infinite patience, is supremely gentle and has nothing but Love for me. This is my Bridge beyond the Bridge.
As I read Don Jolly’s article and saw where Marty had got into SC in Portland, Or in 76′, I was reminded of one of the most profound and memorable encounters I have ever experienced with ME. In 76′ I was living in Fayetteville, AR. That summer myself and two friends had made a spontaneous trip to Gonzales, TX to attend Willie Nelson’s birthday event. After the event we drove on down to Corpus Christi and then spent a few days camping on Padre Island. It was tremendous fun! In late Sept in Fayetteville, in recalling the fun I had those few days in Corpus, I was thinking that maybe I should move down there. After all, winter was coming on, I was a carpenter and winter in AR was hardly ever a prosperous time for me. Well, one night I went to the Swinging Door Saloon where I was a regular and took a seat on a bar stool. A stranger came up and, even though there were many vacant stools at the bar, sat on the stool next to me. The stranger began to talk to me. Without any prompting on my part he began telling me his story. As he talked some things he was mentioning really caught my attention. Turns out he was from Corpus Christi, was a carpenter and had moved to Fayetteville because he thought the work would be better and the pay higher. As soon as he had finished talking he excused himself and left. I sat there a bit stunned. In that moment there was a Tone 40 compulsion that came into me that said, “Go to Portland, Or.” Other than having a good friend who I knew had relatives in Portland, I didn’t know jack shit about Portland. Three weeks from that night my friend who had the relatives in Ptl and I were living in the basement of his relatives house in Portland, Or.
For many, many years afterwards, the experience I had that night in the Swinging Door Saloon remained an intriguing mystery to me. I continued to wonder who or what was it that had compelled me to move to Ptl? In the instant where I recognized what and where my ‘Bridge’ was, I knew exactly what had happened that night. It was ME. In my journey that has never really happened, ME has been guiding me all the way. This is my way to return to the Home I never left.
One more thing…here’s something to consider…I very much suspect that we all have the same ME.
“LRH AND -MANY OTHERS-m did a tremendous service to compile so much on that side of things.”
FIFY. (fixed it for you)
With help from others beginning with his 20 year old Psychology mayor Assisant.
And that includes Quintin and Nibs and and and and infinity
Roger commented on your comment
“Yes, that comment by marildi above is relatively valid. Hubbs did note that above 2.0 we are “survival” and below “is succumb” . . . the issue is that he observed that in terms of human behavior, but actually did nothing with the observation in terms of addressing it with processing the spiritual Being.
His reference to it is as though some academic observation that never got applied.
And nowhere does he mention or refer to the spiritual reversal of vector or of polarity where the Being actually inverts as in going from being present to being totally absent or from being interested and loving to being hateful.
And nowhere does he mention the “reverse rocket read” that accompanies this monster change point/action of the Being.
All Hubbs mentioned is the point that behavior is different at the two areas of the Tone Scale . . . that is a far cry from observing and understanding the actual event of what Alan called the Power Split.
What we are talking about here is the change point that a Being goes through as they decline the mood scale wherein they flip from positive to negative. This is a very different issue than Hubb’s simple observation that folks “are survival” above 2.0 and “succumb below 2.0.”
The tech discovery I relate is why is it so! And it is a fuller look at why and how come it occurs and the mechanics of it and reveals a handling for such.
Listen up, gentlemen (Mark, Valkov and Brian). LRH specified the meaning of sympathy as it applies to the tone scale, and differentiated it from the “popular usage.”
“SYMPATHY is commonly accepted to mean the posing of an emotional state similar to the emotional state of an individual in Grief or Apathy. This is a secondary reaction and has its own peculiarity but is nevertheless on the Tone Scale between 0.9 and 0.4…
“SYMPATHY can be mechanically considered as the posing of any emotion so as to be similar to the emotion of another. This, in view of popular usage, should have a special designation: “comparitism.”
(Advanced Procedure and Axioms)
The above definitions are also in the Tech Dictionary.
Sorry, I should have said he aligned (not differentiated) the meaning of sympathy with popular usage .
A self Pittty versus.
: the feeling that you care about and are sorry about someone else’s trouble, grief, misfortune, etc. : a sympathetic feeling
: a feeling of support for something
: a state in which different people share the same interests, opinions, goals, etc.
Damn Hubbard for redifining words.
That would put Sympathy above Intrest on the tome scale and Scientology “sympathy” some kind of selfpitty.
Marildi: Sorry, as you may have noticed, I get off on tangents and forget what I should have learned long ago. And I’m the guy who goes off on rants about “mastering every aspect of………. I have a little work to do myself.
Thanks for doing that Cat Daddy, and thanks to Roger.
Hi Cat: Ron clearly stated that he didn’t want to make a whole new language for Scn. the way that the psych industry had. Use existing words in an understandable way when possible. He did a pretty good job. Sympathy, as used in the tone scale is a perfectly valid use of the word under existing definitions. It can be looked at in different ways if one WANTS to. One can understand the principal he was putting forth without changing the other definitions of the word if that’s what one is going for. Depends on what one’s intent is.. Basic study tech. It has been my observation that the tone scale proves accurate out in the real world. Actions derived from the tone scale have proved workable.
It was my pleasure.
Talking about Sympathy:
Watch or not, I am going to watch it later in it’s entirety. Not really Scientology
I can have Sympathy without sitting in someones feeling but you would call that ARC I geuss
Or maybe it really is “scientology” the way it was originally meant to be……
No, CD, Mark is right. On the word “sympathy” Ron is using regular English definitions:
“a. A relationship or an affinity between people or things in which whatever affects one correspondingly affects the other.
b. Mutual understanding or affection arising from this relationship or affinity.”
The “a” definition is the negative one and it is a low point on the Tone Scale. The “b” definition is the positive one.
Mark, I’d say what you did we all do all the time, and I think we have to expect it of ourselves. To me, it can’t be a linear climb to “master every aspect.” It’s gradients – and it’s repetition. “Times over the material equals certainty and results.” 🙂
Marildi: Thanks. It need not be made more complicated than it is. Just look and see what it means, and say “i see what you mean.”
Maybe You and your kindred spiritsshould start up a messageboard like WWP and ESMB for indy and freezone Scientologists. I will join out of intrest.
Imagine a place on the internet for discussing the Tech and aspects of it and taking honest looks and reviews and the like.
Don’t such already exist? I wouldn’t know what to call it. I have never called myself a “scientologist” and still don’t. I have thought of starting a blog but have never posted to it. I don’t want the job of moderating it! And, I imagine I get more readers by postin g here and on Geir’s. 🙂
But Thanks! If I ever do start posting on my own blog, I’ll let you know.
I would call it ARC too. IMO, you make a better Scientologist than some of those who’ve done Scientology. 😉
Maybe so, but the deception went both ways. Ron was no idiot. He was not a total victim to DM.
Ron’s own darkness didn’t need any help from DM. They were a match made in heaven.
The master and the attack dog
And yet, they are like Ozymandias – you hear nothing of their works, except as they are kept alive in Scientology. I take this stuff with a few tons of salt.
I am indeed very technical – Science, math. I was far more into the technical side of Scientology vs. the administrative side. Red on White vs. Green on White. Green on White, ultimately, is what destroyed the church. There is a lot of value in some Admin tech, but a lot is BS including almost the entire subject of “justice.”
In “Red on White,” discovery and processing of overts and withholds is a therapeutic event, meant to unburden the PC. “Sec checks” the same. All of it is geared to betterment of the PC. Only on the admin side do “overts” become “EVIL!” The goal of the tech side is to build someone up to handle the universe and all the evil in it. The goal of the “justice” codes and admin side is to label and condemn people for the same overts they relieved themselves of in session (to their gain). In admin, it is held over their heads like a sword.
As for science, I believe it is a method men use to fully understand God’s creation.
Do doing at 12 of this night all of us will irrivoce to is at as is using tone 40 intention without reservation verbal on exact strike “we sciontologisst stop miscavich from stay his post we all now exteriorg inonetwothree ass now exodecided be gone be gone be gone e2s4assa ell theta punch combination i will stop this day ” complied to all in full xx love to saints o t
44 i am now be well my love to you all from me jd soro