As might have been evident from my last post Abolition of Scientology Slavery, my approach and contribution to that abolition will continue to be pursued along educational lines. In that regard, I have three books at various stages of completion which I hope to publish in 2014. Upon completion, I reckon I will have done what I can do on and with the subject of Scientology.
I will provide short previews of each book between now and the end of the year. Responses to those summaries will play a role in sequence of completion and publishing. The working title of the first one to preview is Clear and Beyond: How to Graduate from Scientology.
This is a manual for assisting one toward restoring forfeited critical, analytical and independent thinking and living. It does not attempt to sell a particular ultimate path. Instead, it is a recommendation on how one might learn to find one’s own way after having been conditioned toward being a good follower. Some of its content has been presaged in many posts over the past year on this blog.
Clear and Beyond will include a deconstruction of the OT levels of Scientology designed to provide context and understanding for those who have engaged in them. It also might serve to protect others who have contemplated embarking on the OT levels from a lot of pain, grief, and confusion. It is not a shallow debunking of Hubbard and his theories. Instead, it is an in-depth analysis demonstrating how Hubbard might have wound up going the way he went and how ultimately the way he went was the all too common way of religion: releasing one from holding to a set of crippling beliefs and considerations by inviting one to hold even stronger to another set.
The analysis validates Hubbard’s intuitive prowess while also helping a person to see how subsequent science and consciousness studies demonstrate more clearly what it was Hubbard was grappling with at these levels. It could help one navigate out of the egocentric, devotional – thus limiting and ultimately crippling – belief system Hubbard inculcates as part of his processes.
Clear and Beyond will share a course of study that leads a person toward pursuing wisdom and greater awareness, capitalizing on – rather than nullifying – whatever gains one might have attained in and with Scientology.
I appreciate your thoughtful articulations, Marty. You are now my guru. (kidding) Your ideas have definitely helped foster my graduation. These ideas help Les and I
in our practice, also. We do not push “This is the only way.” We do apply “standard tech” to those who want it. Thank you.
Thank you for this, Marty. I know that the same process has informed your work thus far as well.
In the pursuit of knowledge, anything that serves one to achieve a conceptual understanding also serves to slay one’s demons of ignorance and vanity.
I for one think that this is a noble undertaking that will serve you, me and others well. I look forward to your posts and subsequent book releases.
I believe in OT and 100% Standard Tech –I know everything about it. And if somebody tells me about spiritual abilities he hasn’t gained, or that LRH said he would gain them, I send him to the doctors –what are we, insane? This is the real world.
Sorry, I was looking for a chance to troll that haha 😛
I think this is a needed book to help those coming out from cult. It is a kind of guideline to decompressing and then moving on up higher and to being on one’s own and not following orders or dogmas anymore. All this is very good and I would buy it in a heartbeat. But I”m a bit worried about “deconstructing OT Levels.” What do you mean by that?
You mocked up your reactive mind. You mocked up your whole track. It is not stored in any bank. You make them up in the present – in session, build up the emotion, then destroy it. It sling shots you up the tone-scale and Hubbard tells you that you blew charge. You don’t know any better and you feel good, so you trust the guy and give him more money. It’s a mental trick – a gimmick to con you. You could give someone a line a cocaine and tell him that he blew charge. If he didn’t know any better, he might believe you. DMSH was fiction. There are no Clears or OT’s. There is only you against the game of life. There are many traps to oppose. Religion is just one. Every religion offers salvation to lure you in, then fear to keep you stuck in the trap. Fear that you will lose your salvation if you don’t believe and obey and pay.
Yes, there is plenty of room beyond Scientology.
Salvaging the best of what early Scientologists discovered and building on that with careful research opens the door to many bright futures.
Once the door has been opened and people are allowed to think for themselves, there is no limit to what can be accomplished. I prefer an Open Source approach to spiritual technology, but there are an infinite number of ways to achieve enlightenment.
Good luck with all of your books!
Wish you well in your endevours.
Too easy a write off
Wonderful book and terrific title.
You’ve helped been a terrific help to me on my own personal journey. I had to journey BACK to scientology which I had so abandoned years before your blog but was still hooked to learning what the scene was — where were my old friends. Etc.
I realized somewhere along this journey that my studies/devotion/understanding of buddhism was starting to border on a cult of my own making 🙂
Am now making a HUGE change over to the oldest Christian religion and the largest — Catholicism — to see IF I can approach a body of wisdom (yes, there is wisdom there if you read between the lines) without becoming a card carrying whatever.
Thanks for all the help you’ve given so many of us. Acknowledged or not.
May your book sales soar!!
Great, can’t wait.
I will add that the “antidote” to Scientology, or any dogma, is education with a gimlet eye. And measured faith.
Will be waiting.
I look forward to all three. Consider them purchased.
If I ever turn to Scientology again, I would like it to be a place where I can be me – all the way.
Looking forward to the book.
There is great difference between annoyingly forcing somebody to do/not do something, and stating your opinion about it, and letting him choose for himself, by himself. I personaly never went to anybody’s home to spit my negative thoughts about SCN. If somebody thinks we shouldn’t talk ‘negatively’ because of 1000 righteous reasons, he himself thinks of LRH as a brainwasher. I like LRH, and I think he wasn’t a brainwasher.
I should clarify ‘negative thoughts’. I meant disagreements.
If from disagreements we jump to discrediting a person, then we try to destroy him by trying to disaffect people against him. I think that can be some hard attack, and I don’t like to do it, nor it be done to me. That’s why I use generalities –not just because I’m SP.
I am looking forward to your books. Life is all about change and growth. As always I wish you and Monique the best.
LRH did his best try, he was brave enough on this. He didn’t do it, the whole thing, but it seems that he gave a hint. The critics will do the next step.
Looking forward to your books!
Looking forward to the books.
Regarding slavery I recently saw the movie Cloud Atlas and a slave when asked why he was whipped, answered: “I have seen too much of the world to be a good slave.” That brought it home why the COS has to control communication, communication lines and disconnections as a policy. Slavery can hardly exist in the face of free communication.
Anybody who wants to make slaves has to insist to control first and foremost the access to information and limit the scope of education.
Anybody claiming to be the only source has knowingly or unknowingly paved the way to slavery.
Wow, I’d like to read them all right now. But probably vote for the Graduation from Scn book first. Then, one might take a more detached, and not fearful examination of the Deconstructing OT book. My two cents…
You’re a good person Marty.
Marty, deconstructing the OT levels, I can’t wait. Now your cutting steak with a knife. Lets see the magic, mystery and mysticism in context as best you know and understand it. The more that people understand the how, what and why of those levels, the less they can be controlled and spoon fed by the church. How many times have we heard use of the threat and belief that one could loose their eternity. They are under a selfish spell. I hope its a very large chapter and if necessary its own book. Give them a way out.
Marty is still deep, deep in the trance.
Per what I get, if this manual provides greater awareness and a clear pursuit of wisdom while, not only maintaining but expanding one’s own individuality, I can do nothing else but to back it up, read it and, if you wish, translate it so others can read it too.
I think there can also be a positive ‘negative’ –meaning disagreement that doesn’t slap.
If my thoughts are to nullify your thoughts, then it’s a disagreement, and also an attack –if I intend it, and if you allow yourself to be attacked in such a manner (I could try to attack you endlessly while you laugh at my thinking I can do such a thing to you…)
There can also be an “we let all have their own thoughts. We don’t force our thoughts onto others. We don’t try to reduce the creators of those thoughts”…for as long as those others do the same too, of course. Or else we can have war.
Fine, so, the Church doesn’t have war with it’s members. It has suppression, as the members don’t fight back. If you fight back, you’re out (or down). So then people go out and they are free to fight!!! 😀 It’s progress. There can be better too. Fighting is better than submitting, but not good enough. It can get kinda unhealthy. But still it’s better from not allowing yourself to fight because then you think you’re guilty etc.
I don’t see written disagreements necessarily as fighting anymore. They can be very happy disagreements. Did you know that LRH said that ‘a 4.0 disagrees like mad’? It’s in the PDC –whose motto could be ‘disagree with MEST’. I used to wonder ‘how does ARC fit in all that, then?’. I mean agreement is part of ARC, how come disagreement is good? I have answered to myself that agreement needs to be self determined. And so then one should be free to disagree with a compulsive agreement (like MEST) as well, before he can disagree or agree on his own determinism 🙂 It’s the same with the SCN related case. If you don’t want slaves (compulsive agreement) people should be able to disagree. So then intergrity should be exercised, and SCN should be exercised too (if at all) at will, and how one sees fit.
…all that unless you’re a hardcore critic. In which case you mus have been wondering ‘wtf is he saying?’.
Open, free discussion of the tech including the OT levels is just what is needed, IMHO. This is in the original spirit of scientology – with a small ‘s’.
I always achieve more understanding of life from your books. You are an exceptional intellect and teacher. Look forward to the books.
Looking forward to reading it.
Frank, over the years, that is the general conclusion I have reached. It may well be an over-simplification, but not without merit.
I am looking forward to Marty’s next books. He has an excellent manner of sorting out these complexities.
Your new books sound great, Marty. Thank you for your genuine compassion. I don’t know how long it will take to unspool the Scientological thought automaticities tangling up my mind but any help from you is most welcome.
What she said
I am enjoying your stream-of-consciousness.
I second that.
Marty is on a journey, as are we all. He is brave enough to honestly share that journey publicly as he discovers and experiences it.
How brave and honest are you?
Christine, I would say that Gnosticism is the oldest form of Christianity. It was almost 300 years later that Constantine boiled it down to the bits that best supported his vision of a hierarchical, authoritarian state religion, and that’s pretty much what has come down to us today as Catholicism.
No doubt there is wisdom still there, but some really good stuff got left by the wayside.
Not knowing what the other two books are about, I would still bet that this is the one I would choose to read first. Any “critic” of Scientology who can also “validate Hubbard’s intuitive prowess,” as worded in the blog post, and who is knowledgeable and experienced with the tech is someone worth hearing out. The first 3 books were excellent and I’m really looking forward to the next 3.
Btw, I hope you’ll be writing about the “old” OT levels too. I think they would have to be part of the story of Scientology tech, or its “lost tech.”
For that matter, how brave and honest am I, or any of us on this journey?
If you are going to make the “trance” accusation for the purpose of making a valid point, then provide something to research and discuss. Otherwise your opinion is unfounded, pointless, and boring.
I second that.And looking forward to readind as well.
Thank you again.
and as Papa Smurf always said…
Does anyone here care to explain what an Audit R45 is? Marty?
Marty, I think I understand better now what you want to accomplish. I assume you have seen much as an auditor and C/S.
After I left the COS, 11 years ago, I read much confidential OT stuff (never been on the OT levels myself). Nothing ever happened to me because of that reading in specific, except from what I was thinking that had happened to me, because I was thinking -and I knew the whole world of SCN would agree with me- that I had restimulated something too much for me to deal with.
Just by thinking that I had done something so bad to myself, I was putting there that I had done that thing. I was putting there exactly what I was thinking I had done to myself, anyway. And it was there in the exact form and for as long as I was putting it. Well, my cogs in the end (I run about it) was that I only experienced my thoughts and there had never been any mysterious, overwhelming thingy restimulated –ever.
If you don’t think you can cause somatics and other phenomena just with your thinking, then that ‘reactive mind’ can’t either, as you make it exist (when you do, if you do) by thinking it up.
I think to no longer put your case there is great. And to do that for others is even greater. To pretend to attempt to accomplish it with endless processing is messed up. To do it within some time of processing is good. To do it without any processing is even better 🙂
Help with “gimlet??”
I will definitely read both. Thank you for writing and sharing your insights. Thank you for this Blog. Lovely to have company on this incredible journey.
It’s not easy. It’s logical. In the Clear Confidential Briefing Hubbard levels with us and admits that we are mocking up (creating) our bank in the present. If we are creating it in the present, then we are also creating it in the present in session. It’s a trick. We don’t really know what happened, so we accept Hubbard’s explanation and we pull out our credit cards for more dope. Hubbard targeted a weakness. We don’t know what is happening – and that’s a weakness. His confidential documents revealed the scam to the keen observer. I went “clear”. I am speaking from experience. There is no clear. Just look. Not one clear has ever been able to demonstrate that he is a clear. DMSH was a lie. It’s obvious – just look. Look, don’t listen. You are free.
Frank, the fact is, if you can mock it up in the first place, you can also store it in a “bank” you also mock up, or even several banks, all cross-indexed, or even mislabeled and hidden from yourself, if that’s what you wish. 🙂
I look forward to reading it. It’s always nice to learn how I got scammed. Ha ha.
Hi Windhorse. I am nominally Eastern (Russian) Orthodox Christian. We never went to church in my family, except a few times at Easter. However I have always had a mystical interest there. Orthodoxy is very similar to Catholicism except for lacking any belief in a “Pope”.
In this book Jacob Needleman does write about Catholicism and real Catholics. Needleman always tries to go to the heart of things, and he does so well, in this book. I recommend it, it is a lively one, not dryly intellectual at all. (Ha ha – A Jew writing a good book about Catholicism!)
Thanks Marty — I really appreciate and welcome the approach you are taking with the problematic issues of Scientology as it was developed and propagated.
Here’s a much simpler link to check out he book:
Why would you be worriec Jane?
Hey Marty, I’m definitely looking forward to Clear and Beyond. I’ve been interested in exactly what was being dealt with on those levels OT3 & above. I know “something” is being addressed, but just not quite what Hubbard described…
Your way through Scientology is probably the ‘only way out’.
I read you with great interest.
Looking forward to them all, Marty.
Marty, why would you spread your time and effort across three books to be published in the same year? Not only writing and editing these, think about how bad it will suck to try and promote three books in the same year. Why not focus on one GREAT book? There is a growing community of people who would gather behind promoting your work without sharing your beliefs.
EXACTLY WHY SEC CHECKING IS A PRIMARY TOOL OF ENSLAVEMENT
In order to focus and function in life it is necessary to be adequately oriented. In the simplest of terms this requires that we are able to locate various aspects of our environment in time and space as well as in terms of significance – meaning, relevance and value. This applies as much to human relationships as it does to interaction with the physical landscape.
Where people are insecure in their orientation, particularly when it comes to human relationships, they tend to become obsessive in their efforts to “locate” the other person – to fix him, her or them in terms of time, space, meaning, relevance and value. In practice this amounts to excessive demands for explanations and justifications. In the extreme it goes something like this; where were you – why did you do that – why didn’t you do this – why are you looking so pale etc. Sometimes such attempts to “locate” someone is based on genuine concern, mostly it is an attempt by the “inquisitor” to bring under control an aspect of his world seen as a factor of disorientation.
(More often than not, the most honest answer to excessive “why questions” is to simply say; “because I felt like it”).
By having someone explain and justify their actions, choices and thinking more than circumstances require invariably puts them on the defensive which solidifies their location – fixes their position in time, space and significance. The resistance to being forced into defending a particular position then provides the energy which “traps” the defender. Think of how you felt when pushed beyond your tolerance to explain and justify your actions, thinking and behavior. This is what cleaning a clean really amounts to.
Sec checking as used in certain circumstances by the C of S is intended to “locate” and “fix” in time, space and significance the persona of the subject. But without the “agreement” of the subject this can not be done. Consequently the sec check is deigned to evoke resistance from the person being sec checked. In this way the subject provides the “energy” required to collapse him or her into a more solid and docile individual.
In the final analysis, the principle underlying the C of S’s hold over people is the fundamental desire and need of beings to be oriented in an ever changing world.
“science and consciousness studies demonstrate more clearly what it was Hubbard was grappling with at these levels”
Yes and no.
Antonio Damasio said that there is no consciousness without a stimulus.
To me, this is a very spiritual idea that helped me understand my existence.
How can that be?
I was able to think this idea through because I was willing and able to put Scientology aside. I was able to contemplate consciousness as an “effect” … or as Damasio puts it, “the answer to a question that was never asked.”
All I am is saying is give it a chance. Don’t limit the way you look at things.
Quantum physics explains how things work on the very smallest scale, breaking things down to their smallest parts called quanta. When quantum scientists talk about “observation,” does that mean consciousness is required for reality to play out the way it does?
Good question. Who knows what the ultimate reality is?
Peace to you Marty and good luck with your books.
Dang Jane, I just wrote a long response to you and it disappeared ’cause I wasn’t hooked up to the internet ~ anyway.
Basically I personally feel there is something there to deconstruct.
If not for the wonderful staff at AOLA 83-86 Nancy Obolensky, Harold Sims, Len Williams, Ann Rollins, I would never have traveled those levels in my own home. I would have cleaned or found something better to do with my time. I did like learning to listen to me but even that got a bit extreme! I personally feel more at peace with my self and this crazy planet when I can walk outside and feed the birds or fish or build something constructive that actually is useful.
But boy did I get an FN and feel really good after sessions but I was physically nauseated. The Solo C/S would write me back “OK, good, got it, continue” WTF? Here I am 30 years later still wondering why. I think I have it solved but ya know I don’t understand it!
I personally feel dissecting the OT levels is my next step. May not be for everyone.
It will be really nice when we can all post with our names and tell our stories.
I’d someday love to know who Jane Doe is!
Christine, good luck with your journey. Catholicism was my religion as a child was my first practice of spirituality. So it holds a special significance and can be very inviting to revisit. I loved the smell of the incense blend they used at High Mass. Sitting in a centuries old quiet church can be an experience. And there is a lot of wisdom accumulated after 2000 years, but a lot that they do not get at all. I am sure you will profit from its study. At least your head should not swell. Less is more with the Catholics. Humility. And that’s one teaching they smartly retained. Although they do not apply it to their own organization. So your right about keeping the organization at arms length. If your interested in Jesus, I find non-church sources the best. Edmond Bordeaux SzeÌkely is one author on Jesus and the Essenes I liked very much.
I would like to explain what I mean.
If there is no consciousness without a stimulus, then consciousness only exists when there’s something to be conscious OF … that’s not pure consciousness existing on it’s own, but consciousness OF a thing …
In quantum physics there is an idea that even if a thing ceases to exist, the information which is that things exists forever.
If there is only “consciousness of,” then I am NOT inside my head watching a show because I AM that show, because at this level of brain science there is no observer of information except for the representation of the information itself … you ARE that thing.
So where are you?
There are many theories in cognitive science which talk about the “non-locality” of consciousness. Scientologists have a similar concept called exteriorization …
When I think of myself as “consciousness of,” rather than just consciousness, I feel like I’m pervading the environment. Somehow, the absence of beingness seems to clear the way for a much bigger beingness … does that make sense?
This a “SUBJECTIVE” experience, but so is consciousness, by definition!
It’s interesting to think about those things which seem to expand consciousness. All I’m saying is to not limit your reading material or the way you look at things. Sometimes scientific thought leads to me ideas I find beautiful and amazing.
Nicely stated. I think when LRH decoupled Security Checking from auditing, was the exact point where he inverted, squirreled his own tech, and it was the beginning of the collective implant that is Scientology.
Great news. I’m looking forward to your analysis of the OT levels.
For all of my time in the subject of Scientology, there were many things that I would have to quantify as positve-type gains. I did like the simplification of understanding and its compenent parts, for instance. I did find the theory of the service facsimilie very… I would say useful, but I think more “insightful”. After having trained on the levels through Class 4, I found the desire for auditing to dwindle away. There were many realizations of the fact that I was dealing with the construct of my own “demise” throughtout the levels and more and more, as I progressed, the realization became more and more real. I can not say that that would have been the case had I not trained. In retrospect, I can say that the corporate environment adds a whole other spin to this, the over developed “group” mentality that seems to try to make one deny their sensibilities and shackle one or steer one away from doing something effective to manifest the personal abilities that come in hand with the increased awareness and understanding of the self. Sec checking, constant hill 10 emergencies, musters, all-hands, demands for contributions beyond what one is willing or actually capable of doing, 3D “Ethics”, e.g. Control mechanisms to keep sheeple in line.
Unfortunately I miss the personal development aspects. I can not say that I have gone beyond the Class 4 training I have done, but I have looked into the upper levels and I am less than impressed. This is particularly due to the fact that apparently the gist from my own lack of accord in using my “case” to handle the environment to “I never really had control of it in the first place”, when I realize I do not have to be compulsive about it.
I am of the opinion that the upper levels are a road to nowhere. It would be interesting to see (my hope for the new book) how simply a person can utilize or enhance their awareness of self from Clear.
Consciousness does exist without a stimuli. If you have a dreamless sleep, do you stop existing. Consciousness is the source of perception. The dreamer exists without a dream. The subject exists without an object.
Consciousness is Self existent.
Do you mean “consciousness of consciousness”?
One more point about a dreamless sleep: when we awaken from a dreamless sleep we are conscious of not having any dreams. And we can be conscious of having had a great sleep.
So there we have no objects to perceive, no object to the subject, yet the subject, the experiencer, knows it had a great sleep. So there is someone there that knows.
The viewer of dimension weaves external perceptions like a spider weaves a web. It comes out of itself. Without the spider: no web. Without consciousness, the soul: no perception.
And that something is immortal. Water cannot drown it, fire cannot burn it and death cannot touch it.
Who dreams at night? Who perceives the universe in the waking state?
Who is it that is knowing?
Consciousness, the soul itself.
Do you mean “consciousness of consciousness”?
That’s an interesting idea.
We’re all familiar with Hubbard’s definition of “awareness of awareness.”
From the viewpoint of cognitive science, consciousness of consciousness is a feedback loop of consciousness … Douglass Hofstadter wrote a book about that called I Am a Strange Loop.
But Antonio Damasio talks about a level of consciousness which is not self-aware, in the sense that it is conscious, but not conscious of being conscious. He calls this the proto-self, a level of consciousness deep in the central nervous system which is aware but not self-aware. BTW, Damasio is an expert on the various stages of coma.
I just like the subject. The important thing is to have fun with it … and try not to limit your reading material!
Good one! It starts with that and so can every group start to get into this wild group behaviour of cults, even big group like nations.
There was just recently a very good talkshow in the German TV about people trying to analyse why a normal group becomes a cult or what the difference is at all. And your explanation is very good – at least what the starting point is – just my opinion …. 😉
I understand your point of view, though I think dreamless sleep might be an example of something else.
When I was young I became interested in dreams. When I was 18, I could remember what I dreamed, going back to the time I first went to sleep. I could tell you the 5 or 6 different dreams I had that night.
When I got into Scientology, I remember nights I didn’t dream at all. All I remembered was an image of the room I fell asleep in. I found it disturbing.
Later when I moved from objective to subjective processes, I had a huge win on Self Analysis. I always had a good memory, I knew that, but auditing SA opened up a world inside me.
Later on I went whole track, attested to Natural Clear, got kicked out of bars, spent a little time in jail … only kidding!
In middle age, long after I left Scientology, I started having lucid dreams. Dreams that were as real as day, but I could control them. It’s an amazing experience, and it made me think about a lot of things, not just about cognitive science, but the history of religion on this planet.
Can consciousness exist without a stimuli? I respect your opinion, but I’m not so sure it’s as simple as a yes or a no.
You’ve head about other universes? Did you know there’s a theory in physics that says gravity is a side effect of being next door to the universe we ‘re next to?
Why couldn’t there be a universe of pure consciousness? And, because we live next door to that universe, we experience consciousness as sentient creatures …
I’m not against metaphysical thought. But I think it helps a lot to know some science … it helps to be in touch with reality!
Oh, some things come immediately up to my mind on this one:
– I don’t think it’s true that so many women tried abortion like written in the Dianetics book. Generally women do not look really good in that book.
– I don’t think that it is technically possible that a person can be an SP after having attained the state of clear – at least not per the theory of LRH himself about SP and Clear
– I don’t think that this absolutum of the state of clear is possible and has ever been attained by anyone. I can attest that there is a point where people really feel cause about their life and purpose etc. again and about their past so they feel it must be clear and it is a great state to know one is cause and not the effect. But THAT state of Clear as in the HCOBs is a nice postulate or theory.
– I think there is something utterly wrong with the conditions especially the lower conditions about doubt and liability. One has to choose and the needs to make an effective blow against enemies. I think this is wrong as the truth is there are no REAL enemies. Better would have been to decide what game one wants to play and to which group one wants to belong. This makes it possibly to choose without creating an enemy and go into a fight.
– I think the OT levels including the GPMs violate the basic rules of Scientology. It is very evaluative and suddenly Ron says what your mind is made of. You are not able to find out for yourself anymore.
– I think nobody dies when reading the OT III stuff. If this is the case whole classes at schools would have been all dead by now
sorry, got a bit into it. Anyhow, great subject to deconstruct all this … 🙂
Yes you are absolutely right. I wouldn’t go farhter with it than Auditing and some of the processes or at least the set up and maybe not so much content of those processes. But I will defend that basic thing of ausdditing as a parralel development to mainstream psychology. I will defend a place for Hubbard from Freud to Meta-Psychology with Auditing.
other than that not so much.
It was originally R2-45. It’s a spoof process wherein you shoot the target with a gun. It results in immediate exteriorization (separation of the soul — thetan, person him-/herself) from the body. I always took it as a humorous thing, but some people take it as serious.
Good post Gerhard. I agree with your analysis of the situation 100%.
Frank, you call clear a scam, yet you describe it occurring. The “trick” to the trick is using the state of mind of thinking one has a bank, to show a person that it is simply thoughts that can be volitional.
One believes he has a bank, but in the observation of it functioning realizes that it is merely volition thought that one has put some filters and conditions on for whatever reason in his past.
Sure you can’t show clear, just like you can’t show a nothing-ness. But then perhaps when you say “show clear”, you meant show innate human abilities unrestrained….experience, education, context all restrict that beyond the mental aspects dealt with in “clearing”.
A rather rapid technique for “exteriorizing” the human spirit from the body by use of a .45 caliber bullet to the head. It’s an illustrative joke Jamie.
Bit of the ole dark humor.
Joe, thanks for yor post. It explained very clearly some things to me that are going on in my own life. I love this blog and cant wait for Martys new books.
Marty, earlier you wrote something to the effect that the PDC (Philadelphia Doctorate Course) is a great summary of the capabilities of a being and how to operate as a spiritual being. I am open to anything that can help my spiritual progress (including, but not limited to the parts of Scientology that I find useful) and given that it is quite a lengthy course, I wonder if you would still recommend it to someone less technically trained in Scientology. From where you stand now, do you think it’s worth listening to these lectures as part of one’s spiritual journey? To what degree do you find what’s in the PDC lectures true to you from your current vantage point?
Excellent point, Gerhard. And absolutely true.
Marty, I am looking forward to all your books but especially Cleqr and Beyond! I have questions about my mind and thoughts that a deconstruction of OT may be able to answer.
Though I seldom write a comment any more, I catch every one of your blog entries and find them fascinating in light of my Scn experiences both in and outside the “organized” church slave experience.
If I was to introduce super power I would have developped an OT level that would take you in space, bought up NASA while the church cash still was afluent, next level the moon and than mars
Posting Phil, my antidote against feeling a nuisance pestering Valkov, Miraldi, Espiritu, Grasshopper, Mr Hobson and others so much.
1 of 7
…a Jewish Gurdjieffian.
Thanks, CD! A good balance. 😉
“I just like the subject. The important thing is to have fun with it … and try not to limit your reading material!”
Please mail me a copy as soon as ready for sale.
Frank, you wrote: “…Hubbard levels with us and admits that we are mocking up (creating) our bank in the present.”
Doesn’t he say we’re RE-creating our bank in the present?
You also said, “We don’t really know what happened, so we accept Hubbard’s explanation…”
His “explanation” may indeed be just a construct. But it’s a very workable one where a person who once reacted to something, even on an UNAWARE stimulus-response basis, no longer does so. This has occurred with many, many pcs.
“The analysis validates Hubbard’s intuitive prowess”
This is right, when I talk or compliment someone for associative thinking I mean a lot of this. NOT to be confused with magical thinking.
(psychology) The mental process of making associations between a given subject and all pertinent present factors without drawing on past experience. Free association.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/associative-thinking#ixzz2kN9E4XYw
Suri’s escape from Scientology
Yes, I believe that was his main influence. I’ve read several of his books. He’s been a Professor of Philosophy at San Francisco State University for decades, and it seems like whatever he got from the Gurdjieff school, he has long since “integrated”. I recommend the aforementioned book, and one called “The Heart of Philosophy”. He talks a lot about “conscience”.
Phil is great, CD. Actually I thought I was pestering you! But only when I felt you deserved to be pestered.
These states are experiencable. Many have spoken about them. Many. Very many!
As long as the word “I” is evidenced in a point of view, it will always precede and be senior to externalities.
But….. the info is out there (or more correctly-in there)
The procedures and practices are available to prove the incorporeal nature of the soul.
I have proved it to myself.
My words are impotent to convey it’s essential truth.
It’s a timeless argument that is only settled once and for all when consciousness is directly perceived as itself with no additives.
No mind, no thoughts, no body. Only itself in its pristine state.
The experience of it is worth all the struggle to attain it.
It is unspeakable, full of joy and power, light and wisdom.
That has been my experience.
Sharp and intense. In other words, don’t just assume that what you are reading is correct, and study it carefully.
We do it to eachother in good fun. 😉
Gurdjieff spoke of his Work as ‘esoteric Christianity’; teaching how to begin to become a Christian.
Thank you for the reminder about Needleman. His essays and articles are very good also; I used to read Parabola.
A lot of questions are raised by these issues! Or a lot of issues are raised by these questions! Whatever. You know what I mean.
Among them, How does a being know what to create or re-create in present time, anyway? Are the re-creations “accurate”? It can be considered the “past” does not exist. Then how does the being “know” what
“the past” was, for purposes of creating or re-creating it? Or that it really happened that way?
These are questions of the “Left Hand” paths, as Wilbur describes them. These are “subjectivities”, parts of a person’s “inner world” or “own universe”. There is no proving or disproving them. Like Incident 2. The written details don’t match the geological record as we know it. Yet to some people it is quite real. To others it apparently blows charge anyway.
Anyway, to me these questions raise all kinds of conundrums and contradictions and inconsistencies. This is because we are trying to use a language that dichotomizes thus we end up repeatedly trying to wrap our wits around “wrong questions”, like “Is it Nirvana or is it Samsara, or what?”
Thanks, Cat – that’s a great talk by Tom Cruise’s former Father-in-law. A great talk. That’s what Scientology is about, and he is right about trained Auditors being a “higher state” than clear. Very much so. So much so that back in the time about which Phil is speaking, “Scientologist” meant “Trained Auditor”. PC’s were not Scientologists. Frankly, I argue they still aren’t.
BTW, I respect you, my man. You don’t bug me at all!
Whathever my toughts on all those terms:
I see what you did there 😉 bug you, grashopper, withy
Val, yes, some people who have done OT III have stated that Incident II was completely real to them. In fact, there was a recent comment posted by someone who said that on one of the L’s she ran into Incident II and – even got the name of Xenu – although she was not OT III at the time and had never seen the data on it. I suppose that could still be explained in various ways, such as telepathic connection with others who did have the data.
However, consider what happens with objective processes. Students on HQS co-audits, for example, or even on Level 1, have no idea of the principles or mechanics that underlie objectives – neither the auditor nor the pc. And yet they get specific standard results. That’s an example of auditing that I don’t think can be described as merely subjective. How can it be denied that there are “laws of theta” that underlie those process, just as LRH stated there were. Nevertheless, the gains probably aren’t provable but “merely” a knowingness for the pc – and in that sense are subjective.
Please watch on full screen
LRH does not admit to anything on the Clearing Course. In fact in quite a few books and tapes he talks about what Clear means.
If it was as easy as reading about it then it would have been a piece of cake to clear this planet.
One has to walk the walk to make it.
Personally I’ll never forget when I went clear. And I’ll be damned if I’ll share that here.
Thanks Marty for your continued scholarly guidance and insight regards this highly charged subject matter. I truly look forward to your shared insights and conclusions in your upcoming publications.
That said, LRH’s sometimes crap sure did eat up at least half of this life and perhaps the last half of the last one.
I appreciate your sincere commitment and efforts to those who seek resolution. It is important.
I can’t wait to read the books. And thanks for the opportunity for us on the blog to comment on drafts — that’s an honor.
I found this thread’s comments particularly interesting. I plan to read them over again more carefully. Several thoughts came to mind while reading the comments.
Consciousness: am “I” conscious during a dreamless sleep? When unconscious during a surgery? When daydreaming while driving a habitual route, paying no awareness to the stops and turns? Am I conscious of something I do not put attention on? Can I at best ever be more than partially conscious, given that I cannot even perceive much of the universe (e.g., I can perceive only a small band of the electromagnetic spectrum; like all humans, I am blind, for example, to radio waves and x-rays).
Self: Do “I” exist? Do I exist eternally? Is the question “do I exist eternally?” an ill-formed question to begin with, if, say, there is only “now” anyway? Am I that which is “aware of being aware”? (In that case, if I am intermittently not aware of being aware, do I intermittently not exist, or am I intermittently “asleep” in some sense?)
Space and Time: There is a conjecture in physics and cosmology that time is not a separate dimension distinct from space, but just another dimension of space itself. We are mobile in three dimensions of space. But that fourth dimension, what we call time, lets us move only in one direction — from now into the future. We are governed by what physics calls “time’s arrows.”
Yet if it were possible for me to move only from west to east, and never the reverse, would I think that west-to-east motion was a sort of time? Would I look longingly back on what happened a few miles back west of me, knowing I could never return to that “past”? Space and time do not exist independently (it’s already evident they form a continuum), and time may be just another dimension of space. And matter can be viewed as “frozen” or condensed, compacted energy (on this point, Ron had it right). One could argue that there is then only space and energy — and that all the forms and labeled variations of things are constructs of the mind.
So do space and energy give rise to consciousness, or vice versa? Scientology of course argues for the latter — life or theta giving rise to MEST. The reverse possibility is derided by Ron as man-from-mud — same derision that comes from the three major monotheisms (at least from their fundamentalists). But I’ve come to look at it this way: if “I” emerged from space and energy, then I am already privileged to live in a magical universe and have won the cosmic lottery by existing at all. So … either way, I win. And all of us have won.
Reactive or unconscious mind: Do I create it? Or is it laid in as neuronal patterns during my development? Does auditing erase anything, or does it simply aim to increase awareness and thereby decrease unawareness, expanding consciousness? Does that increased awareness change the “soul” (thetan, self), or does it change neuronal patterns that allow clearer perception? When I have had a cognition (realization or epiphany) does that — whatever else it does — create new neuronal pathways that result in a better sense of awareness and well-being?
For me — this sort of discussion is getting at the heart of the whole matter — at the heart of what I had hoped Scientology would lead to in the first place. Prison planets and space aliens do not for me lead to direct experience of any sort of ultimate awareness, if that can be attained. Such scenarios are just another version of life as usual. But discovering, through direct experience, for example, that “I” do not exist in any sense I can conceive right now, yet a deeper eye, a timeless observer deep within, can never not exist — now that’s something I glimpsed and which gives me lots more fire than a caricatured Xenu trapped in his electronic prison (yawn, so Flash Gordon) ever would.
In reading the various comments, and pondering my own reflections, two books came to mind: “I and Thou” (Buber) and “I Am a Strange Loop” (Hofstadter). Thanks for entertaining my rather rambling questions!
The operation of ‘bank’, ‘facsimiles’, ‘energy flows’, ‘mocking up’, ‘energy flows’ etc. has a few mechanics which must be learned, worked with and understood. The ways and means and hows have to be down pat.
But it really doesn’t have to be all that complicated, once you rise above just some of it and begin to see just some of the simplicities.
Yes, you can have a picture weighing down on you, unseen, causing things that you ‘don’t know why’, There are things that you just can’t do or see and at the moment, you really can’t. Some smart ass says “Well, you’re just unwilling to flip that light switch from across the room.” Bullshit, what a suppressive statement. There are some mechanics stopping you.
But underneath ALL these MEST stops and compulsions and stupidities are considerations, postulates, what I often call old, built up, long term, self validated and enforced OPINIONS.
Think you can blow an entire area of case such as an anxiety concerning bring trapped or lost by recognizing 4 or 5 mental image pictures and turning them white (not a real example). There are thousands of related incidents that occurred long long before the idea of holding on to homemade ‘photos’ was even invented. You got the idea that you didn’t like being trapped and if you trapped your competitors you would be safe, long before there was any mental mass involved. This opinion was verified countless times and now you KNOW it is true.
Now all these ‘physics of spirituality’ have been piled on top of your basic opinions and you are unable to just look, know, and change your mind. Hundreds of tricks have been developed by various individuals to help get you out from under some of this junk to get you up to a point where you can see some of the simplicity of it all. As-ising engrams, spotting MEST near you, releasing stuck comm lines through time etc.
And a lot of these tricks are necessary.
You don’t try to teach a man to swim while he is drowning. You get his head out of the water, let him breath a bit, then show him the dog paddle.
Now, look at a couple of really basic decisions that you made such as “I let him know exactly what was going on, and that bit me in the ass, I’LL NOT DO THAT AGAIN.” Really realizing that, after a few hundred similar experiences, you said to yourself “See there, I was right, you can’t trust em”. You see the big picture and suddenly regain the ability to decide in present time with all knowledge available to you. You will laugh your ass off for days.
After that it really gets to be fun, the ‘adventure’ that was promised to us becomes real. The simplicities underneath start to become clear. Yes, it seems like a quagmire now, but it does get easier and more enjoyable. Don’t give up just because a few people haven’t had a chance to find their stuck decisions. A little honest effort will be well worth it.
Just my observations so far.
We are perhaps a little hung up on “subjective” vs. “objective”. There are experiencing subjects. I am talking about theta the experiencing subject. Is it possible to “view” theta objectively, as an object, from “outside? By definition, I think not. Theta creates, it is not at bottom created. Create, create, create, as the actual cycle of action. If that is not true, then “theta” is not the word I need.
Thank you Frank … for being “frank” and telling the truth. Scientology is a scam and L Ron Hubbard was a con! “you are mocking up your reactive mind but can stop it” is the clear cog. Scientology advertises on their website and other promotional materials – “Get Rid of your Reactive Mind” – which is a lie – you don’t! It is time to face the truth! To charge money for this is fraud!
Marty this needs to be posted
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
“When I was locked up in the chain locker, the chains were cold and wet. It was very dark, and dank and stank of wet metal. When I climbed out after three days, I was covered in red residue from the chain. The girl who was in there with me, and I were absolutely terrified. We were not to know that the anchor would not be dropped whilst we were still sitting on the chain, and if anyone has seen how fast and furiously a huge anchor chain moves when it is being lowered will know what I am talking about.”
Just an injection of some trivia
In Yogananda’s home study lessons that were written, I think, in the 30s, there are two ideas or statements I found that precedes Ron’s writings:
1) Yogananda called the soul an “awareness of awareness”
2) He states that hearing is the last sense to go in the body. So be aware of the noise and what is spoken when a person is leaving the body.
3) he states that the soul enters the body through the back of the head, at the medulla area. (be 3 feet in back of……………..)
After learning about Ron blowing friends and people off that were instrumental in his success, I realized that he must have taken Yogananda’s lessons to take some things and not announce his sources.
It must be remembered that these are not “Yogananda’s truths.” In the real world it is considered truth. And truth belongs to no one person.
Unless of course if there is a wad of cash to be made by claiming superior uniqueness. Then to hell with truth! Bring on the suit cases full!!
spyro – this is what is called an “implant” and Hubbard put many there – getting sick and/or dieing if someone read about Xenu, body thetans and clusters…is just hogwash. Hubbard did it because if you knew what it was before you started the $500K bridge – you would quit…so he kept it a secret so he could indoctrinate your thinking inside the Scientological Bubble!
“When I was locked up in the chain locker, the chains were cold and wet. It was very dark, and dank and stank of wet metal. When I climbed out after three days, I was covered in red residue from the chain. The girl who was in there with me, and I were absolutely terrified. We were not to know that the anchor would not be dropped whilst we were still sitting on the chain, and if anyone has seen how fast and furiously a huge anchor chain moves when it is being lowered will know what I am talking about.”
Frank’s post raised some questions in my mind, like, If a being is creating or recreating a supposedly “past” incident in present time, how does he know what to create? It would be like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, wouldn’t it? Or is the hat really empty?
I’m talking about the limitations of language here, aren’t I? If not, what am I talking about?
Really looking forward to Clear and Beyond. Still feeling my way along,
This is indeed huge, Christine, and rather stunning. I look forward to your observations.
I am looking forward to reading your future books Marty. I hope that in someway, through your gifted abilities for translation, you might address the purposes and ideas of “spiritual supremacy” and “ethnic cleansing”. This is the foundation of slavery.
Who is the most supreme thetan, and the process or policy of eliminating unwanted “non licensed” or “non standard” (alter ised out here to mean public license (approval and agreement) ) religious groups by deportation, or forcible displacement or sabotage, with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or “pure” religion, culture, and history.
(People who can be dominated by a spiritually supreme thetan who criticizes and issues an “approval” license)
Until people can rise above such solutions to their avid craving for agreement, an antidote may not be possible. As they become mere prey for the sociopaths who use “religion” to harm attack suppress and dominate others. Under the banner of “spiritual supremacy “.
“Spiritual supremacy” is an issue that has been an unaddressed issue for a long, long time. It is a ser fac. Ethnic cleansing as an out outpoint and purpose is fairly new but understood by now in social intercourse as an abberation. Both of these purposes breed justification for slavery.
How many roads must a man walk down, before he’s allowed to be free?
Only one. The one not burdened with toll gates constructed by the sociopaths preaching spiritual supremacy and ethnic cleansing. That’s all.
I think this is a perfectly rational conclusion one could make, until one actually experiences what is referred to in the field of Psycho-spiritual Evolution as a Kundalini event, in which so much life-long mental or physical pressure one had always accepted as “normal” is suddenly released (even audibly) that one feels like a Champaign bottle having just been uncorked, accompanied with critical and profound psychological transformation that involves one’s entire being. At that point, one’s speculations as to whether one is merely imagining things are recognized as just an aspect of the “cork”.
When procedures are done correctly, the “end phenomenon” includes a meter reaction indicating a lack of mental mass (i.e. floating needle), an old inhibiting decision being recognized as such and voiced (i.e. cognition), and obvious indicators of relief and joy (i.e. very good indicators), which can include sudden, intense ecstasy, bliss, peace, love, devotion, joy, or cosmic unity, or experiencing oneself as physically larger than the body (i.e. leaving the body or “going exterior”).
When procedures are done incorrectly, it can result in a “spiritual emergency” with symptoms mimicking, or temporarily inducing, psychosis or schizophrenia. Normally, such symptoms are immediately recognized and rapidly resolved with the appropriate correction list. Hence, the strong emphasis and concern for “standard procedure”, as when not caught, one has done a tremendous disservice both the client and the profession.
In any event, after experiencing a succession of such correct end phenomenon, the inexorable conclusion one must reach is that one had been sitting in one’s own very real self-imposed mental Iron Maiden for so long that the only rational and pleasurable thing to do is to deconstruct it rather than blow it off as mere imaginings. Once one is led out, one realizes that there is a whole new vibrant reality outside Plato’s Cave.
“Wouldn’t he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn’t he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn’t he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn’t it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it’s not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn’t they kill him?”
Thanks for the words of wisdom.
I do see your point, and I’ve talked about imnplants in SCN too.
I think it is also a matter of whether SCN is used to add or deduct stuff –implants etc. I think that may be the reason for the confidentiality of those levels (not thinking you have that stuff=not having them).
If -for example- hasn’t read anything or much about SCN, and goes to an auditor complaining about a problem, and the auditor does take the problem ou then we have deduction. If somebody goes around telling people they have hidden implants they cannot know about, that cause all their actions secretly, he adds.
please deleted, I must behave,
double post please delete
(CAUTION – THIS IS LONG SO SKIP DEPENDING ON INTEREST)
To be a bit more clear I am not particularly intending to “become” a Catholic which requires quite a few steps … not the least of which is accepting Jesus Christ as not just an historical figure but a spiritual one as well.
THAT SAID — not having ANY Christian background although I was confirmed as a Presbyterian at 12-13 (don’t remember) I know/knew NOTHING about Christianity. Never continued going to church – and became a scientologist after dropping out of college, as a hippie.
Fast forward – I took my last service in scientology in 1993 (OT VII etc) and was effectively booted out due to a “breakdown” – MAAs etc didn’t really know what to do with me and off I went.
1999 – recovering and living in Texas, I listened to ALL the then OT HATTING series — LRH talked about the prophets very favorably and as I wasn’t drawn to Jesus, Mohammed or any Hindu faith by default went towards Buddhism. (also it appeared to be more favorably accepted by scientologists due to LRH comments about Matreiya)
And in 2004 starting practicing buddhism ONCE I got OVER the hump of “THOU SHALT NOT MEDITATE” (LRH)
From 1999 to present time I’ve been following the critic blogs (starting with alt.scn) to see where/what my friends were doing or not doing.
2009 found Marty’s blog and starting posting anonymously as wind horse (a Tibetan term basically meaning life energy) and remained anonymous (except to Marty and Mike) until Karen lost her son to this nightmare religion.
While I still hold SOME tenets of scientology as valuable – I’m afraid they pale to the current atrocities and thus I’ve become rather critical of any form of FUNDAMENTALIST which includes some indie scientologists.
BUT with fundamentalists now on my radar … LO AND BEHOLD — I had to take a look at myself. I had become a fundamentalist buddhist. ONLY I knew the REAL answers … like …
WHEN did the spirit enter the body, when did it leave etc etc
The death of two of my close buddhist friends to cancer recently has shifted my “I KNOW” what happens … 100% to …
Oh boy — I don’t know much … and have come to the point of wanting to REALLY open up to everyone. Which would include a deeply FLAWED RELIGIOUS CHURCH — the Catholic Church.
But — isn’t that Pope Francis the sweetest ? Should turn around a few card carrying Catholic Fundamentalists I think.
SORRY FOR THE LENGTH — I’ll keep you all posted.
The 500k bridge, the endless processing (where it is endless), the creating problems to offer an unattainable solution, are indeed characteristics of a manipulative group. It’s just that I dont charge Hubbard for it. Among other things, one can audit/get audited and not ever spend a penny –it’s called co-auditing, and it’s no longer allowed in that Church. It’s only partially allowed for promotional purposes.
I would charge Hubbard for putting people to think implants for themselves and others, if those people hadn’t been put to do it beforehand, by others. Even if they’re not called ‘implants’ and they’re called ‘hard reality’ and analysed differently, they’re still brainwashing.
Reference: Supremacism is the belief that a particular race, species, ethnic group, religion, gender, sexual orientation, class, belief system or culture is superior to others and entitles those who identify with it to dominate, control or rule those who do not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacism Some interesting history here.
I love these words by Sufi poet Hafiz (circa 1300 AD)
“When all your desires are distilled you will cast just two votes: To love more and be happy.”
Thanks, Mark. Great post.
“If a being is creating or recreating a supposedly ‘past’ incident in present time, how does he know what to create?”
Wow, you got me thinking about that too! And again I come back to the ultimate answer to any of the questions in this immediate discussion: knowingness. It’s simply knowingness! I think LRH gave us the constructs of facsimiles and time track and bank so that we could get started on grappling with existence and coming around to greater and greater knowingness.
What MarkNR’s wrote in his recent post about postulates and considerations lying at the bottom of it all seems to me to be the actuality, or at least closer to it. Nonetheless, having constructs (especially the really workable ones of Scientology) is like having training wheels which we can use until we learn how to ride along without them. Your point about the limitations of language fits in here too.
Val and MarkNR, thanks for giving me more knowingness!
You are a hippopotamus when it comes to humor! 🙂 Sadly enough, people really do get engrams and although not as much as they used to (just between lives mostly) people still really do get implants. There are just no books available to people to tell them. I can honestly say one thing is true about me though. I never laugh at that. It really isn’t funny because it is like saying to someone “Who? You get implants? Well that never happens to me!” How would you know it never happens to you? Right? So that’s the funny thing! 🙂
Cece thanks for your nice reply. Please ask Mike R for my email address and tell him I said it’s OK to give it. Or just give me your private email address and I”ll email you privately. I already know you. You’ll see.
Hi Lawrence. I had to look up Hippopotamus, in case there’s some definition I’m not aware of…did it mean I have big humor? or maybe fat humor? or slow? clumsy? 😛
My mocking was about Standard Tech that validates the case more than the thetan who puts it there, if he does –I mean some people that have done that, and I have noticed in some flow. That includes myself although I’m not standard tech now.
There’s no belittling from my behalf against people that create engrams or other case/nor do I mock creating case.
By the way, -you got me chatty now- I use the web quite much, and English is not my mother tongue and i I do get to read some things I don’t grasp sometimes. I almost never yawn, feel sleepy, feel like blowing, breaking my computer etc. It has happened to me while talking with another (to separate and want to attack him because of an MU). But anyway, I was browsing through some Scientology materials yesterday, after a long time and I started to yawn and get other study tech phenomena. Was it because of some MU of mine? Do only SCN MUs produce that phenomena in me?
The point I’m trying to make is simply consideration>mechanics. Or in other words, one puts his case himself there, if he does at all. Or in other words, one experiences what he creates. Or “nothing can happen to you unless you postulate it”. That includes MUs and engrams and wives.
My reference to hippopotamus was as in “large” or “gargantuan”. Haven’t you ever heard somebody say: “Hey. Look at that chic’s rear end. She’s looks like a hippo in those pants”. Well, if so, she would have to be a pretty fat girl to resemble a hippo! 🙂 I meant large, in other words. 🙂
You have my hope for all success, Cece. I hear you
The Oracle, good to see you posting again. I’lve missed your wonderful posts.
Excuse me, Lawrence, it took me a while to get your implications. I like to write enigmatic messages too, but I don’t expect it from others too.
I admit I have been kinda hostile about it lately and it doesn’t feel good. I think I should get civilized again.
Do you think people don’t get as many engrams now because of OTs having run out stuff?
Here is an excellent analysis by Plain Old Thetan of why IAS and other reges keep hitting on the same donors over and over and over again. And how to make them stop..
I cannot wait for this one!
Yes yes, I got the picture later on (laughing on & on)
I don’t think he said “create” at all. I think he said “mocked up”. I said “create”. I, however, don’t have the documents in front of me. Hubbard is selling something and delivering something else. This is called fraud. Don’t be reasonable. You’re bank never existed. The mind doesn’t work that way. This is admitted by Hubbard in Clear Confidential Briefing. You’re engrams are not stored. You emotions, painful or pleasant are created by you in the present and you do not stop doing it after obtaining clear. In the clear confidential briefing, Hubbard actually tells you to practice and you will get better at not mocking up bank. This is after you have purportedly gone clear. It’s all a fraud, man. Hubbard gave us a lot of truth laced with a lot of lies – to line his pockets. All confidence games work this way. First you are lured in having confidence if your deceiver, then you are fleeced, once you have dropped your guard. Have you read the Clear Confidential Briefing? It is very revealing. Scientology does have value, if one is able to filter the truth from the lies, but if one believes it, the way Hubbard told it, he will be caught in a trap. Hubbard wouldn’t have succeeded if he didn’t give us something of value. It’s bait for his religion trap. His trap was highly sophisticated. Far more than other religions. It was a religious trap for intellectuals.
“Clearing Course”? I didn’t write “Clearing Course”. I wrote CLEAR CONFIDENTIAL BRIEFING. It’s a document. What duplication you have, my dear. If this is what I’m dealing with, I give up. Good luck, Marty. I hope you have a lot patience.
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
― Mark Twain
Hi, Frank. Without my being able to take a look at these documents you’re talking about, all I know is that you are making assertions which quite possibly are misinterpretations on your part. Can you give a link or something?
Is this the reference you’re referring to? Here’s the first part of HCOB 22 Sept 66, “CONFIDENTIAL, CLEAR AND OT”:
“DEFINITION OF A CLEAR: A THETAN WHO CAN BE AT CAUSE KNOWINGLY AND AT WILL OVER MENTAL MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE AND TIME.
“In clearing you move the Being up to where he is cause over mental MEST. A
Clear has erased the matter, energy, space and time connected to the thing called MIND. He has been cleared of the MASS, PICTURES etc. It is a negative gain.
“Clear occurs when he stops mocking up bank, or realizes he is doing it.
“A Clear has perhaps not entirely lost the automaticity of mocking up mass. But at least he knows he is putting it there and practice increases his general reality.”
Yes, it’s easy to fool most people. Ever think about why that is?
Absolutely not. 🙂 Take a walk past any hospital. Does the place look empty? 🙂 I don’t think so! 🙂 In addition, can you count on 1 hand how many wars are currently being fought around the globe? Both major and minor! 🙂 The Middle East area, nations in Africa, East Asian countries, the government of North Korea teaches it’s people that North Korea is still at war with the United States! 🙂 No, the world is having some problems right now, and the OT that are around are probably just as amazed as you a the choas that surrounds them. But at least, most people are not like RCS tyring to profit off of it, instead of help. 🙂
Graduated, this is an insightful post and beautifully written.
“If a being is creating or recreating a supposedly “past” incident in present time, how does he know what to create? It would be like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, wouldn’t it? Or is the hat really empty?”
The same basic question was given a pretty good answer in a discussion going on over on Vinaire’s blog. And I think in this description, it also came down to knowingness:
2ndxmr On November 13, 2013 at 1:33
V:”What is there about between life phenomenon, or about exteriorization that is different from imagination?”
We’ll have to have a discussion about the mechanism of memory, because that’s what you’re getting into. That will be a long one. For now, try this:
– mock up the picture of an apple.
– Now change it’s color.
– Now make it rainbow colored.
– Add a worm coming out of it.
– Have the worm carrying a sign saying “Bite me.”
– Keep that picture there, focus on that.
– discontinue mocking it up
Now, recall an apple.
Is there a difference?
In accessing memories, creative mockups of some sort may help in accessing the memory: if you wanted to recall a particular apple you might start by thinking of a generic apple, mocking it up red, then green until you remember it was a yellow apple. It’s much like trying to find the right adjective to modify a noun:
– is my hair mousey? or dirty? or bed-headed?
Once you find the right adjective you are satisfied. Similarly with memory: it develops and that can take some inspection. But in the end you know whether you’ve got the recall right or if it’s still off, or if it’s completely off. That is, if you’re honest with yourself. If you can’t be honest with yourself then that’s a problem you have to fix, first.
He wrote “But in the end you KNOW [my caps] whether you’ve got the recall right…”
Hi Lawrence 🙂 Alright. So then what did you mean that people don’t get as many engrams anymore? Like they don’t hunt each other with clubs and axes anymore?
I watched some animated map, on facebook, that depicted the changes of the borders of the nations and empires of the Europe and Asia from around 300 bc up to 2013. And I must say that it seems that we’re making some progress. I mean it seems that the borders have been relatively stable in the past years. There were wars but not as expensive -wiping out other nations- as in other times.
Well, generally I think also the chaos perceived is also a matter of what one perceives. I dont mean to hide so as not to perceive chaos, I just mean what one perceives. If I found something too chaotic (entheta), I would want to deal with it case-wise.
That’s correct. Now please do all of us a favor and clarify what this “Clear
Confidential Briefing” is. I have been in the SO for 27 years and have never heard of a such. You know a date and type of issue would help.
However if you want to give up that is fine too.
I hadn’t heard this expressed quite this way before.
Thank you Freddie
But it is WORK!!
That statement about eternal vigilance being the price of freedom. It’s 24/7-360-forever.
But spiritual awareness and freedom is worth every investment. The returns are wonderful. And forever last.
Hi Marty, I am very much looking forward to the new books. I think Clear and Beyond will help me out a lot. I feel like I am wrestling with a combination of all the good stuff I learned in the 70’s and early 80’s and the administrative slavery of the SO from the mid-80’s until I left in mid-2000’s. (Which turned out to be the direct opposite from what I originally learned.) There is this “crust” covering up a portion of the great wins I had. If you’re trained to think and act with heavy reinforcement for many years you can’t just pop out of it in a few days or weeks. Sometimes I’ll notice how an idea of mine is whacky and still following these “sea org” ways of thinking. Yuck. Can’t wait. I also am very thankful to you for your writing and making these new journeys of yours known. They are there to be had and it is certainly not true for me that Scn is the be-all and end-all. I’d like to get the gum off the bottom of my shoes….er…paws.
Very good post. Most people are adding far to many complexities to this subject of the realities of memories. Here’s the deal.
I was once prepping a closet in an Org for a woman to do her Solo NOTs so that she wouldn’t have to drive home twice a day. I mentioned that it should be enough for her to see her meter and look at pictures. She said “No more pictures after clear”. That is not exactly true. At clear, one has reached an understanding about mental mass and hopefully released your obsession to carry it around with you. One is advised to avoid looking at pictures in session since you may not be able to tell which pictures are yours. You can pull in bank from other people, beings, entities etc. No Dianetics after clear. More of a problem for some than for others. This is still not handled after NOTs for some. But you can still easily re-create a picture from memory (knowledge) any time you wish. Or you can invent one. You can ‘know’ that your car is blue, or you can bring a picture up and ‘look’ at it. A simple skill one uses all the time. But somewhere down the line you made a decision that some were important enough to carry around all the time. The reactive bank. But you aren’t carrying all 323.7 billion photo’s at all times. You re-create them when ‘needed’ according to your previous stuck decisions.
You do have an actual past that is yours. As you sort it out your ‘knowledge’ of it becomes more and more accurate.You can re-create and discard memories from knowledge any time you want. You can create new pictures. The better you sort it out, the more you know the difference.
Once you sort out your own complexities it becomes very simple. The more access you gain to your own knowledge, the less you will depend on pictures, but they don;t have to be a problem. It is your own forgotten decisions that underlie all these mechanics. Find your decisions, lose the mechanics. Simple.
Redeeming myself with a little humor from Karen.
“The *Church* of Scientology has not sued the media in some 14 years. The last time it sued was Time Magazine a to a resounding LOSS for the Church, millions of dollars later….
In more recent times, Vanity Fair was threatened and threatened *See you in Court….*
Hot Air, Bogus Threat.
Larry Wright on the book “Going Clear” bogus threats to him and his Publisher
Jenna Miscavige Bogus threats to Publisher
CNN threatened over and over again before airing of “Scientology,. a History of Violence”
BBC Panorama, numerous bogus threats to Panorama Legal
“Scientologists at war” documentary (recently sold to VOD) numerous threats to the videographers and the lawyers of the documentary film company ~~ all bogus, all hot air.
Burt Fields (Tom Cruise Lawyer) bogus threat to Marty Rathbun.,
On and on and On.
Idle threats. Bogus threats. Hot air.
The tactic is to huff and puff and beat on one’s chest like a Tarzan.
Toothless. Dysfunctional. Duplicitous.”
Frank, don’t give up. A good teacher needs patience. Lack of patience can be an indication of self-importance. You assert it was mostly if not all a trick and a scam. Then you run away when someone mentions a wrong reference. I was disappointed with the general put down you gave of the aptitude of those posting here. You place yourself above the ignorant masses who post here and seek to distance yourself. That’s no way to grant beingness. Maybe there is something to the impatience = self-importance connection.
That is the thought puzzle in my opinion Miraldi:
Scientology is an admixture of falsehoods and truth. When we experience a truth, it makes it very easy to assume that a falsehood is also truth.
A broken clock is correct at least two times.
Ron codified what he was looking at in himself. Some things he saw were true, other things were delusional.
The truth has held Scientology together. And the delusionional causes it to fracture and distort normal decent behavior.
The dichotomous nature of Ron is the dichotomous nature of Scientology.
The cogs are the cheese. And after having cogs: we became one.
Why the state of Clear is a falshood and a truth:
The realization of “I am mocking it up” is a basic description of a realization of a person’s responsibility with experience. It is a wonderful experience as it is a moment of self realization usually occasioned with VGIs.
The state of Clear, as defined by Scientology is delusional, untrue because the clear cog is a constant ongoing process and not an absolute.
“I have no more bank therfore I have others, BT’s bank, is, in my opinion when the cult mentality you pay for kicks into high gear.
The mind is a bank. It is a storage house for all experience. There are layer upon layer upon layer of the clear cog. The constant fluxuations of thought are a constant, until a person is able to neutralize those fluxuations.
The realization, ” I am mocking it up” is the realization that occurs at every step of our evolution. Until liberation is fully experienced.
Clear, in Scientology is delusional as far as being fully experiencial, an absolute.
It is a constant, moving realization of our causitive nature, inextricably wedded to our experience.
Thank you Timekeeper. It needed to be said and I agree with you on the impatience and self importance button.
Bacause of earlier posts about OT’s and cancer I want to share a piont on what could cause a form cancer in slavery.
Mark, that was a very good summation. You reminded me of an issue on the NED course, HCOB 15 MAY 13 “The Time Track and Engram Runn by Chains, Bulletin I,” which I just reviewed. Here’s a quote:
“The Time Track is ACTUAL [my caps] in that it is made of matter, energy, space and time as well as thought. Those who cannot confront Mest think it is composed only of thought.”
When one considers what the e-meter measures, it seems clear that the above is the ACTUALITY, whether it’s a matter of energy pictures being continuously created (as in a continuous restim) or RE-created either as an automaticity – or knowingly. That’s how I understand it.
p.s. In other words, it’s relative in the sense that it can be a greater or lesser ability – and yet the ability itself can be stated in a way that sounds absolute because it is a specific and definite ability.
Correction on the issue title: Should be HCOB 15 MAY 63 (or AD 13) “The Time Track and Engram Running by Chains, Bulletin I”
Looking forward to the new books.!
I haven’t read through an entire blog post in a long time. I love you guys (even the “disaffected”) – a true group of spiritual intellectuals.
Just an observation that’s a reality for me: the mind is just a construct used to limit and create order out of a possible infinity of perceptions. The part that is common with others creates the reality necessary for communication and games.
When you transcend the mind it just becomes a tool for that purpose. Clearing helps make that transcendence possible. By transcending the mind vast new universes of “reality” become available. But you may not find anybody else who will understand what you are talking about…
Cat daddy, I’ve commented on this before too. The DM minions would have you think that you are less of a man (or woman) and are just being “first dynamic oriented (a huge overt in their eyes)” or not being Cause over your body etc, so they make fun of you if you try to get in the most basic of body ruds by having sufficient sleep. It is much worse than just “being a wimp.” It causes cancer, obesity, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and many other things. And it is a way to control and enslave people. They can’t think straight and don’t have the energy to escape if they’re exhausted. They’re more controllable as a sleep deprived robot. It is very suppressive. If it were true all the false data about sleep that the spout (you’re a wimp if you need sleep), then why doesn’t Dear Leader go without sleep too? He gets plent;y of sleep on a very nice mattress and bed with all the best meals etc.
And now you are going to hate me for mentioning that L Ron Hubbard introduced it himself in the Sea Org on the ship.
This is wonderful that you share your thoughts with me! 🙂 Some of my friends have already died in this life and never even heard of the Sea Org before. Why didn’t they ask me, after all I would have told them what it was if they really wanted to know. Whose to blame for that? 🙂
Some things about your case just aren’t specific or definite. You have to work with what is there, what is available. That’s just the way it is. C/Sing skill is even more important than previously realized. A C/S should be completely competent in several spiritual sciences.
Mark: “Some things about your case just aren’t specific or definite.”
I was talking about a specific ABILITY. However, the ability LRH thought described all Clears was apparently found to not fit all cases (which may relate to what you have in mind). That was why he came up with the definition: “a being who no longer has his own reactive mind.” That supposedly does fit all cases and seems to me to be specific and definite.
Brian, sorry – I replied to your post but it didn’t show up. However, the p.s. I added to it appeared at the bottom of the page (but didn’t have your name to show it was intended for you). It pretty much summed up what I had written – which was that, basically, I think LRH did indicate Clears can vary and that the ability gained is relative and can be increased as the Clear’s reality increases. Here’s the p.s again:
p.s. In other words, it’s relative in the sense that it can be a greater or lesser ability – and yet the ability itself can be stated in a way that sounds absolute because it is a specific and definite ability.
I’m glad too 🙂
I don’t really know why, but I could assume a variety of reasons. Maybe they knew and they decided to know what the knew, or they didn’t know and decided to stick with that. Others could tell them what they knew –give them data. But knowledge is not data. Why should there be blame?
Cat daddy, no it doesn’t bother me that you mentioned it. When I saw how much volume of HCOB’s and HCOPL’s and advices Ron would put out in a night, plus CSing, the sheer volume made me wonder if he took uppers to keep himself awake all night in order to crank out that much production.
And Cat daddy yes LRH might have originated it on the Ship, but not the extreme that DM took it. Ron wrote the “PEP Bulletin” where he talks about how you have to eat good quality food with plenty of protein and things and knock of the sugar and junk food. So he was into good diet for everyone and not just slop and rice and beans.
I get what you are saying now. I was firing off a comment concerning a principal that suddenly struck me, that didn’t exactly fit what you were talking about. Sometimes I see something and just blurt it out.
I meant that the questions / commands may be specific for certain processes but what is found and gained is different for individuals. The release point that is the ‘Clear cog’ is different for everyone. I say ‘release point because there are a huge number of incidents/considerations/decisions that relate to any realization that are not found in any given session and their remaining effects vary. When ones entire existence is not available to one as uncharged knowledge, the gain from finding a few key decisions is unpredictable and often temporary. In many areas of case, when the basic is found, the next incident up becomes the new basic. The entire group of similar incidents must be scanned, a principal originated in book one that must be expanded at the highest levels to produce solid, permanent gains. This is a VERY important principal.
People write high end considerations and turn in to monsters anyway.
“Torture is defined as “the intentional inflicting of extreme duress with some form of pain, including psychological means in order to intimidate, punish, gather intelligence or coerce a confession. It is typically used for Propaganda or Political Purposes and its main objective is to break the will of individual subjected to it and therefore to control groups that are viewed as a potential threat.”
“This court document is very self-explanatory: L. Ron Hubbard tortured his second wife Sara Northrup. He tried to make her kill herself because he did not want the “inconvenience” of a divorce (even though at the time he married Sara Northrup he was still married to his first spouse). He subjected her to sleep deprivation to lower her volition, and then provided her with fatal doses of sleeping pills. He strangled her so hard that her hearing in one ear became permanently impaired. Hubbard also used the family car to deliberately run into Sara. Hubbard also kidnapped Sara’s child and used the threat of violence toward that child against Sara. Finally, to evade divorce court proceedings, Hubbard fled the state of California and went into hiding so that he could not be served a subpoena. Nice guy, eh? Hubbard continued to harass her and her child long after she escaped him (see bottom panel below).”
And I have doubt he really wrote it himself.
Hi Miraldi! BTW thank you for being a voice of reason in regards to open dialog and discussion. I so appreciate you taking me on with your understanding of things.
My view comes from someone who started around 1971. At that time it was understood that the bridge was done, fini, no mas. It was standard and all we needed to do was to “get tech in.” The grade chart was considered done. The states to attain considered absolute. The work as done, LRH did it for us, all we had to do was step on the bridge and voila! Freedom!
Clear was never sold as a moving state. Clear was sold as an absolute: no more bank: period. Cause over mental matter………
Clear was sold, exterior with full perception was sold and Total Freedom was sold. All of these products were supposed to be complete, total, worked out by Ron, just pay up and boom! You are an OT.
But an interesting thing happened: the standard bridge took a turn with natural clear. All of a sudden the standard bridge, the bridge already built and promoted as FINISHED, started to change making all the promoted products different from the unchanging perfection of Ron’s discovery.
And then folks started making all sort of justification to “not is” the fact that the bridge was never standard. It wasn’t a complete product.
The original grade chart made claims of absolute states attained.
Clear was not a ” cause over mental MEST unless you are not for some other reason.”
You trained people could come up with a million qoutes from Ron to qualify his words to justify false advertising.
But the general public, the raw meat, wogs only saw what was promoted. The genius of “standard tech” was so earth shattering that KSW would crush any dark intention to stop earth from freeing mankind.
It was sold as an absolute. And when it was discovered to not be an absolute, blind believers did a song and dance to justify the lie of a promoted absolute.
Clear was sold as an absolute. The only bank to run now were BTs.
And that is the recipe for loosing self empowerment and delusive cause.
The Clear cog is simply a run of the mill, common realization that exeprience is self generated: responsibility.
And that cog is not an absolute. The bank is and will always be there until certain things are attained. And Scientology is not that. Scientology does not have that information.
Damn it gets weird, David Miscavige actually following Ron’s words ?
‘Of course, the most amazing thing about the scent dispensers are the fact that I recall that at least two of them were mandated “scripturally” by a line that Hubbard said (which I can’t find a reference to) about someone who “can’t tell the difference between cheddar cheese and spaghetti bolognese.” Imagine that, an 8th-grade level insult from the 1940s that nobody would ever say today, is the basis for a sacred religious olfactory ritual. Such “research!” “
Marty, your announcement of 3 more books is a timely post, personally….
As recently I’ve been pondering how to continue in my own spiritual quest (?). Including questioning whether it’ll be within LRH’s construct or not. So, your deconstruction of the OT levels is a matter of great curiosity to me. And, especially since I’ve been one of the fortunate ones to have had auditing from you-so know your ability to deconstruct or explain to help bring about a conceptual understanding of what previously might have been either a total mystery or intentionally made so complex as to thoroughly confuse (make insane) or stop entirely, to the extent of death!
Subsequently, based upon your introduction that there are 3 more books in progress and then your preview of “the first book”, right now that is what I am most interested in. With the caveat however, that obviously, I don’t know the context of the other two.
That said, your description of Clear and Beyond: How to Graduate from Scientology, indicates to me. For the above mentioned deconstruction of the OT levels as well as your further preview as follows:
“This is a manual for assisting one toward restoring forfeited critical, analytical and independent thinking and living. It does not attempt to sell a particular ultimate path. Instead, it is a recommendation on how one might learn to find one’s own way after having been conditioned toward being a good follower.”
Wow! I can have that!!!
Although I don’t often comment here, I’d like you to know, due to your insightful blog and the discourse from so many others who contribute, I have grown more than I could ever have imagined. It has offered a safe venue in which to reflect, contemplate and gain from. And I experience almost daily realizations about myself and life!
I admire your approach and appreciate all your contributions, and especially the lofty goal of “Abolishing Scientology Slavery”. You and Mosey have my support. ML, Midge
That’s good.! The answer: If it wasn’t me that got rid of my own reactive mind than who should it have been? 🙂
Thank you. Your views are valuable to me.
I am interested in the section about „deconstruction of the OT levels“.
If this subject is not just a view pages and is available as e-book I might buy it.
Ditto! As yours are to me!
Interesting post Oracle. I was raised Protestant but went to a Catholic School. I became fascinated with Catholicism because it seemed so much more sophisticated. Arising out of that interest I asked one of the nuns who taught me why the Bible says “Fear God” and the answer I got was that I should fear disappointing God. I didn’t really think that a satisfactory answer. I would also go regularly to the church (being in boarding school) and despite my frequent presence there was never allowed to partake in Mass (taking communion). This seemed odd to me and I began to think that I was being looked down upon. And that God was somewhat unfriendly. After school I read a book ” A Dead Man In Deptford” – a fictionalised story about Christopher Marlowe. The book has such graphic details about the Catholic/Protestant rivalry (witch hunts, torture, etc) that it turned me off Christianity. It seemed to me that the two sides of Christianity were adversarial to one another. Then came scientology and I thought it was saner, and turned to that. Now I discover that it too has its holier than thou attitude and, not to mention its own cruelties. On reading your post I think it is the obsession with being right, of being the only, of the supremacy, that creates trap after trap. I feel like I am in a room with a hundred closed doors looking for the one that will let me out. I am leaning towards the John Lennon “Imagine no religion”.
In terms of the circle of life that we seem to need to close, I await the published announcement: “Christine, aka windhorse, has today become a fully paid-up member of the NRA!” 🙂
Seriously, though, nice to see your bio in a contiguous set of paragraphs and to hear you’re gains at shedding the fundamentalist baggage of former studies.
Maybe we just need to turn a smile inward every now and then and acknowledge “I REALLY know what I’ve learned and know – today – but I just might have to un-learn it tomorrow.”
The mocked up 1st dynamic? 🙂
There is perhaps a common theme between inculcation in Corporate Scientology and the New World Order agenda, that by the way, is forced down our collective throats. Both share an outcome that is anything but survival oriented. This young man spells it out quite articulately…
Hi Brian. 🙂 Thanks in return!
You wrote: “You trained people could come up with a million quotes from Ron to qualify his words to justify false advertising.”
I would say that the truth is somewhere in between “quotes from Ron to qualify his words” and “false advertising.” If only you UN-trained people 🙂 didn’t have a lot of missing data – not to mention lack of experience applying the tech – you might not draw some of the conclusions you do. And you wouldn’t thus lessen your credibility as critics, either ;).
On the other hand, taking into account the direction things took makes it pretty clear that Ron did commit some rather big mistakes and/or overts in his use of too much force as a means to an end. Nevertheless, although his intentions may have been mixed, I am pretty confident that he wanted to help people, basing that on the overall data, and that the tech does do so.
As for his marketing strategies, it may not be so simple to tell how effective they were or weren’t, since there were so many variables along the way! That said, the use of the phrase “total freedom,” for example, was explained in a PL where Ron stated that it would indicate to people because it communicates a very basic purpose. In other words, what I get is that it’s not to be taken literally. But besides that, the majority of Scientologists are also familiar with what he said about there being no such thing as total freedom in the MEST universe or in any other game. So here again, as with the subject of Clear, there is the question of frame of reference, and semantics.
I’m not all that highly trained myself, but from the training I’ve had and the references I do know, it seems obvious that as research progressed Ron often had to change his previous assumptions and postulates – just like other researchers do. In one particular issue he even admitted that he was “characteristically over-optimistic.”
When all is said and done, however, the most significant thing to take into consideration, per my observation, is the fact that the great majority of those who are trained and well experienced in the tech have certainty (on various flows) that Clear is something far greater than “a run-of-the-mill, common realization” and that it is a specific and definite state, even though the general state of case of individual Clears varies. And for many, it was a HUGE gain and no amount of intellectualizing will convince them otherwise. They KNOW existence is vastly different for them.
Absolutely! And very well said.
I have much more experience as a word clearer than as an auditor but especially in word clearing I saw how much students vary in “depth” of understanding, even when it comes to a single word. They grasp what they’re ready to grasp, and with experience and cognitions they grasp more. It’s like what you and I talked about one time before – the idea that ARC and understanding keep building on what was already there. It’s true for both pc’s and students.
This is actually the beauty of what Ron wanted to develop, which was a path that anyone could walk – no matter at what point of awareness and ability they started. The cogs are one’s own and they match the current state of case. And possibly native potential is a factor too. I have wondered how uniquely individual thetans are, one to the next, completely aside from case.
I think you would also agree that not just with Clear but every level of the Bridge there is a lot of variance among people.
This is delusional. It may be quite attainable. But in Scientology it is delusional.
This is an attainment of someone far beyond the market place of registrars and FSMs.
Just think of all the Clears you know. Then ask yourself,”are they at total command of their minds all the time?”
But in Scientology, these questions will always have a justification: missing step, needs a review, has MUs, needs OT levels, is PTS, had state invalidated by SP, didn’t really go clear, or a most popular one- they are at total cause over the mind: delusional cause.
Hey, we all can be at cause a lot. Some most of the time.
But the statements of absolutes as an attainment made is what got me in to Scientology. I naively considered him to be Buddha’s reincarnation. I believed him. I thought he came back to usher us across the abyss. With all modern ways and views. It was a marvelous dream. We were so special. lolol
Marty, I haven’t been able to read your blog and the posts for a while.
But this week I have had 3 old friends call me.
Someday it will be my kids. But, my friends are just as importnat. I can not say in words T*A*N*K* * Y*O*U* enough..
Cece and others
CD You are funny. Do you need a job or something? I am going to Karen’s for T-Givgin, Wanta come? If she is gone – OK. I will feed her birds.
I would just like to do something for others instead of me. I’m getting real tired of taken care of just me.
I asked the same of GAP.
Thanks for your posts and links 🙂
In the Church, I had been told of the idea that OTs dealt with a kind of charge, which -if dealt with sufficiently- could bring about change (discharge) on a 4th dynamic level. I’m not very familiar with the mechanics of that operation. But I can tell that just like a single man can mess up a whole country, the opposite can be done as well, by one or few or many. Why not? If there can be a thing such as ‘bank agreement’, the opposite can exist as well. If we were only told about that ‘chaos out there’ and other bad, alarming 4th dynamic situations, it could be attributed to some of those SP characteristics.,,
About the reactive mind: I dont see it as a thing which needs to be unmocked (unmocking being an action). It can just not be mocked up (no action). There doesn’t HAVE (there can) to be a way to no longer mock it up. There has to be a way (or ways) to bring it into existence, instead.
Knowing that you have the capacity to think, to move thought around is a great thing. How could it not be.
The point is: do Scientology clears exhibit what was promoted. I knew many clears. My self included. What was promoted was false advertising.
On Tony’s site today, if you scroll down you will see an advertisment for the Ls, a picture of Ron and a quote: it was false advertisment.
To promise a state and then not deliver that state but still believe you have that state is a delusion. And it can lead to being delusional cause.
Ron made a statement about the Ls on Tony’s site. I know people who got the Ls at flag. Miraldi, Ron was blowing sunshine. He may have been talking about real states of awareness. But he did not have them himself and he never created a stable OT.
But…….. It is impossible arguing belief. If you believe in Ron and believe he has done what he said then that is that:-)
I appreciate your dedication to what you believe. You have that right.
Nice Brian Thx. Cece
Marty has informed me so much of the inside workings of the COS.
I remember years ago, I would see Heber and the management team come to town for an event. They were all bigger than life to me. I was always envious that they were getting the best auditing and moving to new levels of OT.
Only now to realize that it was just nothing but a political arena and no auditing was going on. I remember seeing those huge events at flag and wondered why no one was getting audited and the efforts, it seemed to me, was making it harder for auditing to occur. We all have friends that have not been audited for years. Many of whom have found out that they are not even clear.
I have seen some folk that are down in Clearwater for this big event and are very excited about some new news. It will interesting in hearing what they have to say.
And what complicates my position is that people are having wins and cogs on these levels. So when I give a point of view that points out the lies, what can happen is a person remembers the wins they had and then it is easy to discount my position.
The love of cheese discounts the “wamp” of the trap slamming down on the neck of reasoned criticism.
Thank you for your “theta flow” 😉 but I think I will remain here in Europe. I am no Tomcruise who can fly on a whim everywhere(exept to visit his daughter) Is your job house sitting than ?
David Miscavige is funny doing a reversal of “my opinions” on the Tech of Hubbard:
Brian: “Knowing that you have the capacity to think, to move thought around is a great thing. How could it not be.”
Well, what you said right there is a specific ability, isn’t it??
Your point about false advertising I replied to already. Rather than repeat what you already said, I thought you would respond to my reply. I must have stumped you. 😉
Seriously, though, the “false advertising” point might be your biggest grievance, rather than it being whether or not true gains are achieved. Is that the key issue in your view?
Btw, when people pull the “you have a right to your BELIEFS” card (phrased directly or in so many words) I always find that to be either a bit condescending or else they are simply falling back on their own fixed viewpoints, rather than sticking to an actual discussion. 😛 🙂
“…the mind is just a construct used to limit and create order out of a possible infinity of perceptions. The part that is common with others creates the reality necessary for communication and games.”
I have the notion that the universe is composed entirely of energies located in space, and that beings created the space and energies but perceive only a certain portion of those according to certain laws – laws which were also created by beings. They would include physical universe laws – the ones that allow, as you say, communication and games. The laws overall – including “physical universe laws” as well as “laws of theta” – would be another way of describing the construct we call the mind, i.e. it’s a structure composed of the laws of the universe, and it has both allowances and restrictions.
Anyway, nice comment – food for thought (LOL, I wrote “thought” and gave away that I’m still pretty much constricted by the mind construct :)).
I hear you.
“EXCLUSION OF OTHERS IS THE BASIC CAUSE OF WAR AND INSANITY.”
“The Catholic Church only began to fail when it began to exclude.
“Thus inclusion is a major point in all great organizations.”
– L. Ron Hubbard – HCO PL 14 DEC 1970
In the beginning, a Scientology Organisation was a product of the neighborhood and was a neighborhood offering, from one’s own neighbors.
With the establishment of the IAS and “memberships”, suddenly everyone on the planet was excluded. Scientology became an exclusive club.
There is a very specific policy by Hubbard forbidding the sale of memberships.
I think is a major WHY on the subject fading away. This IAS membership idea excluded everyone on the planet except a chosen few, and ran one big “can’t have” with the Scientology.
Excluding others is running a can’t have. What the IAS REALLY did was include a few and exclude the masses, just ran one big can’t have with the Scientology on the planet.
Christine, I find your newfound uncertainties more fascinating than any starry eyed “certainty” as promoted by or attainable through the Co$. Oh how certain we became, how unshakable our knowledge of life as growing Scientologists. We knew many things that you (the avg. Joe) did not, and we knew it beyond the scope of mere mortal homo sap. It was an attitude attained early in Scientology, or rather maturing within the confines of a belief system I am still unraveling. Get a stable datum, what the hell was that? Now you know, now you are unshakeable! I find it relieving in a sense to finally accept / recognize what I do not know about, but can still converse on a much more rational level. Its nice, and it’s human if not indeed spiritual to be able to not know. And to be able to be so with no pending fear or commitment.
I know there can be certainty, such as when you see something work in D&S, a correct condition formula applied – correctly, an engram actually erase, a chronic migraine that is miraculously gone a simple auditing process taken to EP, VGI… we would do well to not forget these things. Hubbard was hardly the charlatan to my mind, flawed with his dark sides and flaunting superiority, but hardly the charlatan.
While the Dalai Lama is deeply involved with the care of his people and world peace, and his followers hang on every word while he never asks for anything in return, and while the new Pope is becoming a true leader within the Catholic regime, Miscavige has nary a word of helpful or spiritual encouragement to the individual, the flock, accept to donate yesterday already you fools.
To good roads and fair weather sailing.
Looking forward to your new books Marty.
Well, even Communist China is moving a litter higher than Scientology:
“BEIJING — China will loosen its decades-old one-child policy by allowing two children for families with one parent who was an only child and will abolish a much-criticized labor camp system, its ruling Communist Party said Friday.
The labor camp — or “re-education through labor” — system was established to punish early critics of the Communist Party but now is used by local officials to deal with people challenging their authority on issues including land rights and corruption.
Pu Zhiqiang, a prominent Beijing lawyer who has represented several former labor camp detainees in seeking compensation, welcomed the abolition of the extra-legal system.
“There have been many methods used recently by this government that are against the rule of law, and do not respect human rights, or freedom of speech, but by abolishing the labor camps … it makes it much harder for the police to put these people they clamp down on into labor camps,” Pu said.
“This is progress,” Pu said.
Brilliant questions FOTF! For me, there is nothing more invigorating than these questions.
The vistas of our own potential are revealed in these great questions and ponderings.
Constantly quoting LRH to always justify and support our knowing is not really knowing.
Defaulting to parroting references in red on white to prove truth is truly a revelation of a truth deficit. More of an assumed identity as a well molded automaton.
Those who know speak as themselves. And those who are themselves approach truth directly.
Nothing is more direct than an unbiased, intensely curious question.
In Scientology, questions are actionable offenses. On the path to truth they are essential.
“The love of cheese discounts the “wamp” of the trap slamming down on the neck of reasoned criticism.”
And the wamp of the trap can hide the wonderful flavor of the cheese.
We have had differing opinions in the past and I believe WE ARE BOTH RIGHT. Your horrors and my joys were both real and not to be discounted. To apply TR-0, or mindfullness, or acceptance, whatever the wording, to the big picture, from either side, can be difficult.
Your words have pulled me back to reality more than once, and I thank you.
AGAIN, I am humbled by your insight and wisdom.
Very true about exclusion of others being the basic cause of war and insanity. I think every war that I know of had that element – racism, xenophobia, religious exclusions. Certainly used as a means to ignite wars in the name of vested interests – where there is another level of exclusion. On a microscopic level it even occurs in schools, and in the work place and as you say – even the IAS.
I am looking forward to this book Marty. It will certainly play a role in the course I take further.
Brian. I don’t think you r there yet. Don’t let down your looses !!
And PLEASE don’t go away!
I agree Miraldi, gains are attained. It is the falseness I am talking about. Basically putting a carrot of “standardness and 100% flawlessness for you to experience definite states is a lie. The clear selling definition does not qualify the cog. You have no more bank. That what was promoted.
As far as my views being a disservice to my self, or that image is tainted by ignorance all I have to say is: Being agreed with or needing to being “perceived” as being informed, is far from what I care about.
I could care less if you take my views that way. My experience is my experience and yours is yours.
I see you as an apologist for Ron who still has some looking to do. And you see me as someone who really doesn’t “know” Scientology.
I am ok with that definition.
BTW, just because I never bring up the positive that doesn’t mean I haven’t experienced it. I have very much.
But if I go into the hospital to check on my heart the doctor doesn’t say, “hey don’t be so negative, your lungs are in great shape.
I am not bringing up the the stuff that works because in the stuff that works is some very inhumane doctrines written by Ron.
Ron must be cognized as who he is. He as a bit nuts and a genius. But the nuts part is hard for some to accept.
Cece, if you’re hosting a Thanksgiving pot luck dinner at Karen’s there are a few orphans on Thanksgiving (think disconnection) that would love to come, namely me! Let me know.
Brian, you wrote: “I see you as an apologist for Ron who still has some looking to do…Ron must be cognized as who he is.”
Look over my posts and you’ll see that what I’ve been defending is the tech, not Ron. I even stated explicitly in one of my replies to you that Ron committed “rather big mistakes and/or overts.”
To be frank, it seems to me that you have your rhetoric down pat and that you repeat it at every opportunity, no matter what a tech proponent might actually be saying! In fact, you sometimes dive into it even without anyone having brought the subject up. And what I’m seeing as the essence of your practiced rhetoric is the equating of the tech with Ron’s marketing and other admin policies.
For example, you wrote: “I am not bringing up the stuff that works because in the stuff that works is some very inhumane doctrines written by Ron.”
There again, when you say that “IN the stuff that works is some very inhumane doctrines,” you are mushing together what can and should be separated – the actual tech (not any perversion of it) and non-tech matters. I’m sure you are well aware of the fact that this separation can be done since auditors in the Independent field are doing it and have been for some time.
I understand that you want to point out the wrongnesses that have occurred and that is totally fine. I just think you would be more credible and effective if you were more accurate. And btw, it might be debatable as to which of the two of us is the more “zealous.” 🙂
FOTF2012, I’m glad Brian replied to your post as I had somehow missed it. I agree with you that this sort of discussion is “getting at the heart of the whole matter.” Ron actually had a lot more to say than the narratives about prison planets and space aliens. Your thoughts about west-to-east motion and about time reminded me of a great passage from Scn 8-8008 that did a lot for me on the question of time. See what you think:
“Time is an abstract manifestation which has no existence beyond the idea of time occasioned by objects, where an object may be either energy or matter. Time can be defined as change in space, but where one attempts to define motion as change in space, the definition lacks usefulness since one does not define what is changing in space; there must be something there to change in space in order to have the illusion of time.
“As was earlier discovered in Scientology, the single arbitrary is time. This is because time did not exist as such but stemmed from havingness. When Man experiences ‘time,’ he is experiencing havingness or not-havingness.
“Time is summed up as ‘had,’ ‘have,’ and ‘will have’…
“Time is impossible without possession of objects. Thus is resolved one of the weightier problems of the human mind. The auditor may find it difficult to encompass this principle, since time may continue to exist for him as an entity, an unknown and hovering thing. If he will use the principle that the past is ‘had’ or ‘did not have,’ that the present is ‘has’ or ‘does not have’ and that the future is ‘will have’ or ‘will not have,’ and that past, present and future are divided and established entirely by desire, enforcement and inhibition of havingness, he will find his preclear recovering swiftly.” (Scientology 8-8008)
Marty, don’t place this link if it is off topic too much, but I thought this is of interest for some on this blog:
Me too Scott. Me too.
I’m not privet.
Because i’m just not–
I would just like Jullie Roch to call me.
thanks Brian. Thx for listening. Cece
I feel like im 14 and buy=t so much smarter
i ment to put my number in 213-880-3661
pls help me ou of the well i dropped into
oh. so now you are studying the foldrers. go for it mAYBE THERE IS A SCIECE OUT THR, S
he has more then me Frank!
Interview with Sharone – October 11th, Brighton
Marty for your next post ?????
From the blog post: http://isene.me/2013/11/17/scientology-present-future/
The blog post includes relevant links and graphics. Here’s the text:
While the world of Scientology is buzzing with excitement over the new monumentalt milestone releases that is bound to shake the very foundations of this universe, the outside world runs its course unaffected.
Most people will never know about “Super Power” or “The Golden Age of Tech, phase II”. But some are negatively excited and are abuzz with carping criticism of Miscavige and his church. And I managed to muster some interest resulting in a few reflections.
Most have long since discovered that Scientology is far from the world’s fastest growing religion, perhaps it’s even the fastest shrinking religion. If you still believe that Scientology truly is the Only Hope of Mankind, then the only logical target for why the world is not embracing the subject is its leader, David Miscavige. True believers would never question Hubbard or Scientology itself, and instead focus almost exclusively on Miscavige as the True Culprit. He must be a power-hungry, greedy and evil psychopath to be able to halt the obvious expansion and Scientology’s natural take-over as the world’s One True Philosophy. If you don’t believe that Scientology is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then there is less reason to blame only him. Perhaps he is just faced with an impossible task of making a flawed philosophy right by any and all means.
Earlier, I reflected on the creative genius of David Miscavige. I also said I think he is a true believer. I see him being on a relentless quest of making Scientology right. He turns every stone, tries fixing every minor crease and splits every possible hair in order to ensure that Scientology may eventually deliver what Hubbard promised. But what if it never can? I don’t think Miscavige would ever openly utter such a doubt. But I think that his quest does reflect such an inner doubt in himself. Just like I think Hubbard devised Scientology to fix himself, I think Miscavige is working hard to fix his own deeper doubt. Just like Jesus may have tried to sell the world on concepts that he himself finally admitted he doubted at the end.
Maybe most peddlers of philosophy try their best to fix themselves and often attempts to convince others in order to fix their own doubts. Maybe. And the followers are eager buyers as they would want their doubts handled as well. Most people like certainty and are willing takers of anything that can fix their fear, uncertainty or doubt.
It seems ironic that Scientologists outside of the church spend time and effort to justify or make Hubbard’s philosophy right, all the while they criticize Miscavige so harshly – a man that are even more adamant in trying his best to fix the subject. But because he is more intensely active and has set himself up as the sole power, the dictator of Scientology, his mistakes are far better scrutinized.
Regardless of the transient buzz and hoopla – when the dust settles and the lack of OT powers and expansion is again starting to show, I think Miscavige is out of stuff to fix – and the naked emperor will be clearly on display. And then the implosion will become a spectacle to behold. And some will regret they didn’t get busy making a better bridge. But fear not, the evolution of Mankind will find increasingly more effective answers to whatever. As long as we help nudge it ever so slightly in the right direction.
Walter Mitty shoop at Tony’s blog
Thanks for sharing those posts, Brian and Marildi. I agree with your thoughts. Also, thanks for the 8-8008 quotes.
I’m going to reflect on those quotes. My first thought was, well, why does time just relate to havingness — why not beingness or doingness? (Scientology jargon for non-Scn readers that means state of having, being, or doing.)
So far, the more I’ve reflected on it, the more think maybe havingness is the keystone. When I experience loss, it is of something I no longer have. When I did (or “was”) something I regret, it still feels to me like my regret is about something I no longer have — my state of mind may be what I had, relatively peaceful, before a serious goof up, and so on.
Havingness seems to tie directly into Buddhist concepts too, related to attachment and non-attachment.
Wouldn’t it have been fun if in Scientology courses you were allowed to really unpack these concepts and have a sort of Socratic dialogue? How much more actual learning would have occurred?
That’s why I’ve loved Marty’s blog: freedom of speech, freedom to question and reason out.
(By the way I was thinking of you and your spouse today, Marty, as I am in southern Texas for a couple days. A great state!)
Another responsive interpretation of the antidote to scientology cultist slavery……….
“Just a reminder that the show is on this evening and to please be ready to bring your best voting power to tonight’s show!”
Oh boy, now it’s time to start thinking! Haha!
Miraldi said,”Look over my posts and you’ll see that what I’ve been defending is the tech, not Ron.”
There are times that the tech is Ron. His case. Therein lies why I address him as well. Because certain world views and cosmologies that were dear to him were not common to all. Not withstanding Ron’s view to the contrary.
Miraldi says, “To be frank, it seems to me that you have your rhetoric down pat and that you repeat it at every opportunity, no matter what a tech proponent might actually be saying! In fact, you sometimes dive into it even without anyone having brought the subject up”.
If there are 1000 apples in a barrel and 999 were great to eat but one can make you sick, and you knew there was one bad one, It is the bad one that gets a lot of noise because the potential for harm is great.
I respect your continuing technical auditing and personal search. I honor every win and cog that has made your life better. I see Miraldi greater than simply the path she follows.
I just happen to know about an apple.
But u didn’t have to freddi.
ME! or Me.. or me.. how ever you like it.
I think Humor is a great antidote to opression/supression/slavery. Many ex Se org peiople says it lacks inside the cult when being a low level sea org person.
I am very much not there yet Pumpkin. There is so much more to go. But what I share I have understood to some degree. I even believe it is vital to strive for this understanding. For the sake of happiness, lasting happiness.
“And please don’t go away”…………………… for a time we are here. Only for a time.
We must struggle our way upwards Pumpkin! Whatever challenges we go through has the hiddenstory of grace and learning. The greatest “god’ of all is a positive attitude! Through it, lives are changed and challenges are bested on the battlefield of life, here and now.
Brian, here’s another way to view the rotten apple:
“Life is thickly sown with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to pass quickly through them. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us.”
Here’s an even better one for the two of us, which I bet you’ll like too:
“All the ills of mankind, all the tragic misfortunes that fill the history books, all the political blunders, all the failures of the great leaders have arisen merely from a lack of skill at dancing.”
FOTF2012: “Wouldn’t it have been fun if in Scientology courses you were allowed to really unpack these concepts and have a sort of Socratic dialogue?”
Yes! And Marty’s blog is one place we can do a lot of it, although I don’t think that is his central purpose. As far as I know there isn’t a blog where any and all concepts, constructs, theories, or methodologies of tech are systematically taken up for the purpose of completely free discussion, by fundamentalists and reformists both. Such a blog I think would have to be overseen by someone who is thoroughly trained and has a purpose in helping people sort out the many questions and confusions about Scientology. You and I would be there! 🙂
p.s. I think you’re right that havingness is the keystone – in the physical universe – since the two (havingness/physical universe) are almost synonymous. Also, what a great correlation you made with the Buddhist concepts of attachment and non-attachment. Thanks for the insights!
To Miraldi -:)
I haven’t really had much to do with Scientology for 30 years. I have no real pressing issues in me regarding Scientology.
I am here for three reasons really for being here:
1) It’s fun
2) To be an iconoclast with Ron so as to warn others about his in injection of some toxic concepts in the subject of human potential.
3) War against “only ways” to help free people from this evil concept that is destructive to their spiritual growth. The by product of confronting this evil is that people can conceptualize other ways: their way, hope. And thus de-hypnotize themselves from blind belief that Ron preached against yet regimented it into his dogma.
4) to re live my Scientology days so as to dump any vestigial thought forms of falsehood that at one time I agreed with.
Mostly though, it fun. Some men like sports, I love words and dialog. Especially when I am disagreed with. Always being agreed with is so boring.
So Thanks Miraldi!
Thanks Iamvalkov. I just read Lost Christianity by Jacob Needleman. Very much worth the time spent. I think a good book on the subject of the soul is Thomas Moore’s Care of the Soul. I am wondering how much the symbols and rituals of Freemasonry and their search for the lost “Word” or what has been lost, may be an allegory for the search for the soul, or a specific spiritual utility for building and growth, and not just a general realization of mans spiritual nature. Freemasonry, like a religion, has it outer trappings and teaching as well as an inner gnosis. Thanks again for the recommendation.
Tyler, you are very welcome. Jacob Needleman wrote some very good books. That one and “The Heart of Philosophy” are my favorites of the ones I’ve read. I’ve only read about 4 of his, he has written a lot more.
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