Here are some thoughts that may make Christmas more meaningful.
by Mohandas K. Gandhi:
My Christian friends have told me on a few occasions that because I do not accept Christ as the only son of God, it is impossible for me to understand the profound significance of his teachings. I believe that this is an erroneous point of view, and that such an estimate is incompatible with the message that Jesus gave to the world. For he was certainly the highest example of one who wished to give everything, asking nothing in return, and not caring what creed might happen to be professed by the recipient. I am sure that if he were living here now among men, he would bless the lives of many who perhaps have never even heard his name, if only their lives embodied the virtues of which he was a living example on earth: the virtues of loving one’s neighbor as oneself and of doing good and charitable works among one’s fellow men.
What then does Jesus mean to me? To me he was one of the greatest teachers humanity has ever had. To his believers he was God’s only-begotten Son. Could the fact that I do or do not accept this belief make Jesus have any more or less influence in my life? Is all the grandeur of his teaching and of his doctrine to be forbidden to me? I cannot believe so.
To me it implies a spiritual birth. My interpretation, in other words, is that in Jesus’ own life is the key to his nearness to God; that he expressed, as no other could, the spirit and will of God. It is in this sense that I see him and recognize him as the son of God.
Exactly. I don’t even believe in Jesus but his story is one of example. I wish those that professed to believe would act more like it.
Beautiful quote. Thanks for this, Marty.
And Merry Christmas!
The earth is lit once a year with lights and giving. One soul was born and changed to world forever.
The words,”Father forgive them for they no not what they do” is the essence of that Great One. These words are the symphony that played through the heart of Gandhi, King and any receptive soul.
In my spiritual tradition we take the Saturday before Christmas to commune with that Great Being. We stay in silent devotional meditation all day.
May all know the true meaning of Christmas and the true understanding of that Great Christ.
May all be filled with peace love and joy. On this blog, in the church, out of the church, in our families, community, country: the whole world.
Love love joy joy to all!!!
And David Miscavige, from one New York Catholic boy to one Philly Catholic boy…………. Merry Christmas and may your life be filled with love and joy.
May the true spirit of Christ bless you with awareness, understanding and true security in soul awareness.
God bless you Dave.
I was reading something and saw this biblical verse:
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” Ephesians 6:12
It occurred to me that this likely refers to scntgy’s dealing with BTs.
To me it is a datum of comparable magnitude.
With the message of this very post in mind, Ron and I plan to attend Christmas Eve services at our neighborhood Episcopal Church. We find this to be entirely compatible with our continuing to apply and deliver what we learned in Scientology.
We wish a very Merry Christmas to Marty, Mosey, and William.
Here is a free ebook that I am reading now, by Fredrick Graves titled the mystery of the gospel. He goes a lot deeper than Mohandas K. Gandhi:
Click to access TheMystery.pdf
I wanted to take this time to thank you and Mosey for all that you have done this year. Your words and your actions are having great benefit for many people, and will for years to come.
If there is anything that you need from me. Anything at all.
Just ask. I’ll do my best to help out in any way I can.
Here is one of the sources I used to understand this Mystery:
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, are two courageous Gnostics and Mystics.
The Mystery Experience from Timothy Freke on Vimeo.
The true spirit of Christ. Merry Christmas to you and yours, may it be peaceful and filled with joy.
Merry Christmas Marty and Mosey and baby and Chiquitta.
Probably the favourite of the bibles I have read is: http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/agjc/ The message of love as your motivation for all you do in life, simply cannot be ignored. If we all lived our lives with love as the guiding light we would have a very different planet.
I think that one must reach out farther than the Bible takes you to understand Jesus totally.
The Gospels of Thomas (Which the powers that wrote the bible decided to leave out) and many more Gospels that are not in there.
A Great book I just finished is called the Gospel According to Jesus by Steven Mitchell…In fact I think it was recommended by you Marty!
We are all Christ inside…we just have to do the work required to shine again in our full brightness as he did.
His love for his fellows knew no bounds. To me, his greatest attribute.
Good thing you mentioned Ghandi wrote it. Any Scientologist raised under Miscavige, saying something like that, would be considered type 3 by the fundamentalists. A squirrel, and guilty of other practices. Leading others astray. An overt product. Theetie wheetie. Reasonable. And a potential trouble source. If it was a celebrity, his auditor and C/S would be sent to the RPF.
The mere fact that you are big enough to honor two other men here, for who they were and what they were, (One freed a nation. All of the laws in our country are based on the ten commandments) will be viewed by some, that you took love from Ron and gave it to someone else. Treason.
This kind of think suggests some Scientologists, believe there is a limited amount of applause, love, respect, and admiration, in thetan’s potential. And they are owed all of it. They don’t even think they need to earn it.
Like Gandhi states, you don’t have to be a faithful follower of a religion or philosophy in order to see that its principles align with what you consider valid and truthful.
Like Hinduism, they believe you should treat others with love and compassion as if they were the Divine themselves, thus avoiding the concept of “others” and making it easy to love them alike.
Principles of compassion, understanding, love, respect and allowing others to be as they are, are principles that align with the native good nature of men. Thus, they are welcomed as Gandhi welcomed Jesus’ ones.
If you are able to live them in true way, then your life may be a saner fruitful one.
Love to all, thanks for this blog and wish you and your family well.
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Not to contradict you or Ghandi, Mark, but this is what C. S. Lewis had to say on the subject.
I think the truth is both simpler and more profound, and that we haven’t found it yet. My rule, after living through the cognitive dissonance of corporate Scientology for 35 years, is:
1. if someone says he has all the answers he is lying with ill intent.
2. If you suddenly think you have discovered all the answers, take a closer look.
3. Never stop looking.
Mere Christianity is a good read.
Jesus, no matter what his true story, has had greater influence upon my life than just about anyone else I can think of. The words attributed to Jesus have shaped my thinking from very early years. I have no idea what percentage of what has been attributed to Jesus is what he may actually have said. However just the fact that so many things Jesus has been credited with saying have had such an impact, and seem to go right to the heart of the matter, is quite impressive. That is true especially given the time lapse since he has walked among the people. I would like to think that the legacy of Jesus is love. I have little doubt that Jesus intended his legacy to be love.
Sadly, given the many vile things which have been done and said “In the name of Jesus” his very name sometimes takes on a bad taste.
When I picture the “essence” of Jesus, however, it is only love.
The true nature of Jesus was/is about love, and try as some have done, that true nature has still found its way down the generations.
I have heard that Jesus claimed to be The Son of God. But I have never heard it said that Jesus claimed to be the ONLY son of God. Please correct me if this is wrong. My impression is that Jesus realized that we are all children of God. Not to get into semantics, but I am not referring to God as some wise and powerful old dude up in the sky.
Jesus represents love, and therefore I also love Jesus.
And therefore I also love.
Love to all of you.
I once read or heard, can’t recall the source, that Jesus was made into a God or Son of God after his death.
That would completely discount the previously mentioned C.S.Lewis quote. Personally, I think he was a pretty sharp guy. Helped a lot of people during his time and since.
C.S. Lewis was a very opinionated guy. He had a lot to say and was not shy with his opinions. C. S. Lewis’ quotation above has no ring of truth to it, in my opinion. I do admire his faith, which is not mine however.
+1 Good to see you here, Bruce 😉
I was raised as catholic and despite over a decade in the cult I remain christian. I am not a believer of the Catholic Church nor any scripture, I am a believer of the message Jesus left to us ant the example he set as compassion and love.
You friends have been mistaken as Jesus never proclame himself as being the Christ – the son of god. His cousin, st john the baptist, was ,what we sould call a radical, and is the one who called Jesus the christ – the son of god.
Otherwise, any time Jesus would have been refered as the christ – son of god, would be a symbol as Buddha would be to the buddhism – both means the ”quality” of the loving compassionate spiritual being. That is a universal concept of all men being that spiritual nature.
When one loves, share, forgive , he expresses his buddha and christ nature , his infinite nature. To believe in specific scriptures or attributes to a prophet is something else than faith – it’s related to dogma.
I never read a scripture about Jesus calling himself the christ or demands we recognize him as the son of god. He mention the Father , but being the universal Father (creator). When people create religion, they often create a cult about their prophet , then add rituals, and organize belief and dogme while they forget the one true message.
My views are in the same vein. Though I do not fit the “orthodox” definition of “Christian,” I have wept at the beauty of the love and sacrifice of the Christ.
In an Eastern sense, I see Christ as an enlightened master who attempted to take on the karma of the world. As he himself said, we are all sons of God, and we can all do the works he did and greater.
In many ways, I think Christ, along with other great men and women, may have been the first true humans among us.
And I would add: thank you Marty for hosting this blog. It made a difference in my life.
A blessed season to all.
Merry Christmass to all
Good to see you Sinar! Merry Christmas Eve and good luck on your journey.
Yes, from the quote I left you could assume that he was on the exclusionary side, certainly his good friend and staunch Catholic J. R. R. Tolkien was. But his children’s stories seem to show the idea that God can present Himself in different forms to different worlds (Aslan in Narnia) so maybe he had that soupçon of doubt that flavors so much of Christianity these days.
Great CS Lewis reads are The Screwtape Letters and for a picture in miniature of what it is like at the Int Base: That Hideous Strength. If you don’t read anything else of CS Lewis, be sure to find a copy of The Great Divorce. Not usually sold on its own but found in collections. I have never read anywhere else a truer picture of Heaven, Hell and what it really means. All told as a light-hearted fantasy (albeit with a brutal kick or two).
“Jesus was my son, you are my son.” George Burns, speaking to John Denver, from the movie “OH God”.
Yeah, Merry Christmas to all. Let’s lift the spirits.
I am now with my family, as I always am for Christmas.
Happy holidays to all on this blog. I too started out in an up bringing of the Catholic church. When it did not help me with my travails after 18 years I looked during college at the Lutheran Church, than Hinduism and looked also at the Buddists . When I was introduced to Scientology I realized that it was a amalgamation of all I had studied, but to Scientology’s credit I was able to reduce the travails. It is not the religion or the dogma to me it is the message. Like Noah of the great flood story “We are all it the same boat and we have to get along. Love and ARC to all. Bill Dupree
My story in brief and a story of someone I audited:
Other than a few days in the cos in 1997, which began with a Dianetics demo ( which resulted in a few hour key out, or release, which got me hooked) and led to me taking ups and downs and Personal values and Integrity then getting declared PTS for questioning the sanity of the staff.
On the way out they sold me Dianetics home study, Science of Survival homes study, Scn ethics, and SP/ PTS home study. I did them two or more times over.
Five months later while attending a business conference in San Antonio Texas, someone told me about the freezone and the Free Spirit Journal. And through FSJ I hooked up with Ivy International.
This became my life line to sanity. The FSJ had many ads for auditors. I hooked up with the late Bob Ross for phone auditing. It went great. I soaked up everything I could find in the fz. Then I hooked up with Robert Ducharme for more phone auditing. It went welI. I took a TIR course Level one and two. I learned to audit more from being audited and other fz sources on line. That’s the short story.
Five years ago, I took on helping and auditing a very abused man (about 37) who moved into the house I live in. He is a big strong man.
He came from the most insane, twisted and perverted parents. This father had beat him and psychologically and sexually abused beyond imagination. And made many murder attempts on him.
His mother wanted him to have sex with her numerous times and he refused.
The story is horrific, sick and hard to take.
When he moved in he was in a deep stupor state. He was on disability pension since sometimes in his 20s.
His life skills were poor. His social skills were poor.
He did not know how to laugh.
He could only cook the most simple and basic meals, like Macaroni and cheese and fry eggs, and use canned foods.
He was diagnosed as autistic. His father had him labeled as a psychotic.
But beneath the stupor, I could see that this man had useful intelligence and a strong desire to survive and rehabilitate. His efforts to survive were clearly visible.
His bible and going to church was his stable data.
But it did practically nothing for his case. At best it was a sedative.
Long story short,
I got him a job delivering newspapers. As I thought it was a good “objectives” process.
He was eager to learn everything a man is expected to know how to do.
And would ask em to teach him.
Like change oil in the car and make things and fix things.
I taught him those things.
I taught him how to cook the most elaborate meals.
I gave him a good couple of hundred hours of actual auditing. Practically no charge.
I never really kept track.
A fair bit of actual book and bottle process too.
I tried to slip in a little bit of exchange here and there.
But I was not overly concerned about exchange.
It was not a priority.
Since we lived in the same house, I had him spend time with me and be with me in almost everything I did and go with me most places I went.
We planted vegetable gardens and he planted a flower bed.
And we cleaned house from top to bottom on a as required basis.
I taught him that cleanliness is next to Godliness.
And, you can’t get sane in a dirty or disorderly place.
He moved out two yrs ago.
But we always kept in touch, and I gave him many hours of phone auditing and just plain life and problem counseling.
Early this summer he hooked up with someone who was Christian counsellor for him many yrs ago, and he got him a job doing home renovations type work for a few months.
He recently took himself of disability pension.
He said he did not want to be on disability pension any more.
He now got a job as a labourer with a Christian business man who owns a specialized concrete blending plant.
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 14:06:20 +0000 To: email@example.com
Bruce, Never will forget the time that you sang on stage at Christmas, at Int. You were a big hit!
This an excellently articulated way of stating my feelings about Jesus. Thanks, Marty. I do believe Jeaus died for our sins – but I only believe he saves us if we follow his example of Christian Love and Charity. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all beings, here and elsewhere.
Marty, Thanks to you and Mosey for all you have done and continue to do for us!
Merry Christmas Marty and family.
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year Marty, Mosey and baby William. 🙂
Bruce, What are the chances that Louigi would ever stop hobnobbing with Miscavige long enough to smell the coffee, complete his Hwy 79 Rundown, and use Dan Koon’s routing form to Hightail Out of Hemet?
Beautiful quote, Marty.
Gandhi and many other Hindu Indians are very inclusive of and respectful of other faiths.
His words made me think of an informal tenet of the Society of Friends (Quakers):
“Walk Cheerfully Over the Earth, Answering That of God in Everyone!”
May God bless you and Mosey and William, and everyone reading this Blog.
And Merry Christmas to All !!!
Very nice choice of writing to reprint for thinking about.
Seems you predicted the thoughts of the Catholic Pope’s Christmas message where the Catholic Pope’s message invited even atheists (non believers) to unite around Peace.
Long range, Scientology’s only hope is allowing official Scientologists freedom to look on the internet, and begin some kind of freer dialogue with the the world Scientology has falsely and wrongly labelled “SP.”
Precept 20 of The Way to Happiness is the loophole were I in “power” that I’d use as a basis to do wholesale major change within official Scientology.
Ditto, good to see you comment Bruce!
I only briefly saw you briefly walking between buildings, but I thought you were capable of deep thinking!
“When human consciousness races through the Christ eye, the star of Christ Intelligence whose light and wisdom pervades all creation, then one can feel Christ Consciousness spread through all the earth, through solar systems, star bubbles, and the Milky Way; and he will actually behold all these planetary families swimming in the eternal void.”
Thanks for this quote, Marty, and Merry Christmas to you, Mosey, William, and everyone on this blog. And thanks again, Marty, for running this blog, which has helped me and many others.
Merry Christmas, Bruce!! You might remember me from long ago when PUBS US was still in the upper half of the PAC Utility Service building and HEM was on the top floor in that makeshift clean room. I was the Expeditor who fixed maybe half of the 200 OP Mark VI digital TA and clock boards from the out-source board stuffing company HEM was using. You personally trained me and checked me out on the circuit diagram and theory of operation. Do you remember?
Michael A. Hobson
Reblogged this on Theta Warrior's Place and commented:
A great Christmas quote! Peace on earth.
Stuartart: This post was a quick read! (pun intended!) 🙂 Me either. Jesus lived and died and that is the long of short it. 🙂 I also do not buy the story that he walked on top of the ocean without sinking or that he parted the Red Sea with his hands. That’s A LOT of water! Merry Christmas! 🙂
When I was kid, I had the that Jesus was a man who could consider anyone to be his friend. He was a guy who could help guide one to be a better friend. I still look at Him and friendship pretty much the same way.
Merry Christmas to all my friends.
Merry Christmas Marty, Mosey & William! Do we need to label ourselves a this or a that? I think not. LRH often used the term Workable. That is what I have always been interested in. Does a teaching, or a process lead to more freedom and happiness? Then it is valid. How far on the road to freedom does The Bridge take one? I don’t know. For now, I’m going to keep going in the Indie field as that is where the theta is. I’m also studying other subjects such as Buddhist Philosophy. It’s a wonderful world with much wisdom coming from many places. You are a warrior with a warrior princess at your side. And you are on the right side of history.
Nah, the Squeege is a lifer. He actually likes being in the inner circle and I don’t see him leaving except on the last bus when they shut the whole place down.
As with any other spiritual teacher, Jesus presents us with both Light and Darkness.
Jesus had his own dark teachings:
“”Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:43
“”If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison–your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple.”
Over two millennia, most Christians have abandoned the hateful side of Jesus to focus on his teachings of Love and Forgiveness.
The digital Christmas story:
I think Ghandi would like to see Jesus like he would like to see him –nothing wrong with that! I personaly was christless before SCN and I still am post SCN. Just the fact that some tried to impose their lord to me, was enough for me to quit it. I don’t hold anything against J, though.
I like christmas too because of it’s aesthetics and ‘warmth’. Words says that the 25th of December it used to be some pagan celebration in older times, by the way.
So, -although a bitty delayed- Merry Christmas! 🙂
Give yourself the gift of a unique nutritional education by reading this home page:
It is most interesting, intelligent and educational.
Yep, I think I do remember you. Well done on getting out of Corporate Scientology and Merry Christmas!
Sending you best wishes for now and your future. All the best to a loving family!
Bruce Ploetz! Well this certainly rounds out my Christmas. Merry Christmas Bruce. It is indeed good to see you here.
Thanks – and Merry Christmas to you Mosey and little prince William!
I think it was Moses that parted the Red Sea – but still, seems unlikely. 🙂
The stuff of life.
Thank you for your good works
You have and had a lot of patience and love.
I had myself a small victory, A former asylum seeker I helped with his papers and had a a guest in my house when he was homeless, has been cleared to set up his own bussiness as a tailor with help from local goverment.
Not as gigantic a task butt in light of your AWESOME life story I wanted to share.
Thank you for your sanity on this subject. Being a God is just a valence, nothing more. And those who have truly studied the various religion of the world would see Jesus never, and I do mean never, claimed to be such. His teachings were some of the greatest, but not claims to godhood or son of a god. I love and respect what he did right, but it ends there.
re: Jesus, the son of God:
watch these videos and decide for yourself:
Bruce, I’ve been officially out since November, 2005. 😉
I see your name is on the patent for the E-Meter Reads Drill Simulator. You and I and another Electronics guy at HEM once discussed whether such
a thing might be possible. I like your LED/Photocell Voltage-Controlled Resistor solution for the PC output.
I need your help with a couple of e-meter technical questions, Bruce. Please contact me. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org
Michael A. Hobson
Thank you and that he also embodies the basics of the resource based economy as well.
Thank you again. I have been thinking along these lines as well.
The ‘hands’ bit was added many years after the original story was written down – linguistics scholars can discern that by analysing the words and grammar. I do actually believe that story is quite possibly true, but that there were elaborations over the years in order to make it seem more miraculous. The bible says that a wind blew, and when we lived on the shores of Galveston Bay the water would be pushed a long way back out whenever a ‘Norther’ (cold front) came in. You could walk on dry land where normally there was sea. The other possibility is that there was a volcano erupting in the Med about that time. That would provide the pillar of fire by night and pillar of cloud by day that the Bible says the people followed. And, after the Tsunami disaster a few Christmases ago, we now all know that before a tsunami the water tide goes a long way out to sea. Tsunamis and volcanoes go together – all caused by seismic activity. Even non-religious people these days will speak of ‘synchronicity’ – when an amazing coincidence happens. The ‘miracle’ was that whatever it was that did happen happened just at the moment the refugees needed it most.
Yes Jane, the Minoan island of Thera is most likely responsible for the occurrence. Most stories have a seed of truth – even the Biblical ones. 🙂
Henhouse: 31 Dec 2013
Bits about Jesus, quoted from the Bible, are selective and do not give the full picture. I recommend reading the New Testament like you would any other book, just carry on through. It hangs together and is life changing. “The Message” , a new-ish translation from the original Greek, translates into the kind of language we use today.
Quoting you: Bits about Jesus, quoted from the Bible, are selective and do not give the full picture.
Me. So true! Thanks for posting that.
It is difficult to find someone who has read the whole bible.
I also recommend that people read the old testament too. It provides tons of useful stable data (wisdom and knowledge and insight for life) and provides context for the new testament.
The entire bible is one of the most important books in the world to read.
Based on my experience and evaluation of scn, and especially the article “How to study a science” or “How to study scientology” that’s what Hubbard meant in the article. It was the whole purpose of the article.
His point was that in order to understand scientology, you have to complete the cycle of learning for yourself, and study and evaluate all other subjects of comparable magnitude in the known universe.
What are subjects of comparable magnitude, you may ask?
Well first off, you have to realize that the subject of scientology is made up of many other sub subjects. They consist of religion, philosophy, spirituality, and self help, mind improvement, psychotherapy, PTSD therapy, personal development, professional development, spiritual development to name a few. Hubbard gives credit to at least some of his sources in his introduction to 8-0-0-8. It includes Jesus of Nazareth. Check it out.
His point was that you have to identify, find and study all other religions, philosophies, spiritual teachings, etc, in the known universe.
Only when you do that will you truly understand scientology, and be able to think for self. If you don’t do that, you can only be a parrot of him and he called that a slight aberration. He was being nice.
Today we collectively have a lot more knowledge and experience than he did in his day. And we have almost everything at our finger tips with the computer and internet.
Today we have a good number of thinking people who did scn and then tried to make their own better bridges. There is Filbert’s bridge, Captain Bill Robertson’s Excalibur, Electra’s Bridge, the Pilot’s self clearing manual and super scio, TROM by Dennis Stevens, L. Kin’s material to name some. Each of these are gold mines.
To apply Hubbard’s point today, all of these fall under the category of subjects of comparable magnitude, so should best all be studied and evaluated, tested and gleaned.
A couple of other extremely helpful books that I found are the Oahspe bible and the Urantia book. That is only for starters.
So, today a much better bridge can be built, and if you can’t do that you flunked scientology.
Dio, a few threads back Monte mentioned a book that was apparently dictated by Christ by means of channeling. I have found it to be credible and extremely interesting. You can read it or listen to the audio version at this link: http://www.christreturns.org/
Btw, it aligns quite well with Scientology, and also with quantum physics in a basic way.
I book marked it for later reading.
I love Gandhi’s view of Christ. It is similar to Eckhart Tolle’s view. Christ was a great teacher. He was certainly the son of God but only in the sense that we are all sons and daughters of God. But institutionalized religion has made Christ into a means (and the only means, they think) to enter “heaven,” ignoring what Christ said that the kingdom of heaven is within you. The Church of Scientology would have their parishioners believe that their immortality and spiritual advancement depends on staying in the church and doing the Bridge. The only person in charge of your spiritual advancement is yourself.
Jesus was/is God (John 1:1-14). If Mohandas knew who Jesus was then he would have been a Christian. Humans who reject the truth and then profess themselves to be wise, like Gandhi and LRH, are fools (Rom 1:22). The blind will always lead the blind. Open your eyes Marty, there is a ditch right in front of you.