All I know is that they cover up for Backpage Tony Ortega and try to make nothing out of his crimes against humanity. They have nothing but sadistic disregard for his victims.
Then they sit on national television and talk about compassion. While running ethnic cleansing campaigns.
At the end of the day you can’t even wish some harm to come to them. How could the condition get any worse? How could the karma look any bleaker? The most abject poverty is when you can no longer afford to care for children being abused.
While you are abusing your own children by attacking their identity.
And inventing enemies and ill will towards them.
And there is Leah sitting right next to him, paying him to do it.
Why would they care about other people’s children?
Oracle this blog is dead and the audience is gone. Get off the patients chest because this one is gone and isn’t coming back.
“Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.” –Gandhi
You can’t kill an idea. I am not an emergency room employee. And I have no idea what disservice I have done to you that caused to you to go from a being a guest in my home, to getting on the Internet to tell me to STFU.
But this is exactly what I am talking about when I say, they are inventing enemies and ill will.
Oracle, Leah and Rinder did not get create an enemy in me.
You have to be willing to consider that a person can stand on their own and have an opinion based on what they see with their own eyes.
“You have to be willing to consider that a person can stand on their own and have an opinion based on what they see with their own eyes.”
That’s exactly what some of us are doing with regard to Marty’s posts. More relevant to this blog overall – it’s exactly what Marty himself is doing. He has the integrity to call things as he sees them – regardless of whether or not his “audience is gone,” as you put it.
O.K.. True enough. So I’ll just assume you woke up one day decided to slap me down because you just got the urge. Thanks for letting me know.
And the day you want me to STFU about men who live off the misery of homeless children and the people that protect them, is the day you have decided to ally yourself with them.
Thanx now go back to Mike and report that you tried 😂😂😂😂😂
Classic OSA futility message. Well done.
Hi Mike. Nice to see you again.
I see they equate “compassion” with crying a bunch of alligator tears 😭 on que for the TV 📺 audience and pretending that they give a damn. So phony and staged which is probably why they’re on A&E instead of a news channel.
Not sure it can get any more sadistic than that Leah. Paying a man to harm attack and suppress his own children.
Democrat Senator Nancy Pelosi refuses to return donation from the Backpage owners, as do other Democrat politicians
And on the other side there are Democrats who will not accept a donation from them.
They did cover some things that are legit, but to me the whole series comes across as pretty biased. I think that takes away from the effect they claim to want to cause. If viewers see it as obvious sensationalist reality TV it probably wont change many minds.
It’s interesting and people who are already biased against Scientology will like it, but it misses out on an opportunity to give an honest take on it. An unbiased, honest show would not be 100% horror stories. It would show the good and the bad and probably wouldn’t create as much interest or revenue for A&E.
Maybe the most effective thing Mike could do to bring about the purported goals of the show (legal action against Scientology, etc) would be to give specifics on some of the activities he directly participated in as the head of OSA?
Chris you’ll never hear Saint Michael talk about his own crimes perish the thought even though he was directly involved in many of OSA’s dirtyist deeds.
Even if he were to admit his culpability he’d say that it was Ron or Mary Sue or Marty or Dave or some policy of questionable provenance that caused him to do these heinous acts even though the majority of them were done during his tenure as head of OSA.
The Nancy Grace for religion.
She spent over 30 years parked in the Church of Scientology as her “religion”. Now she has become the Sherlock Holmes of religious etiquette.
Isn’t an “expert” someone who knows nothing about the subject yet access to Powerpoint😂
Oh Gawd. That was hilarious. I may disagree with you about many things but that was fricking great. – Virginia
Even the criminals that launched Backpage with Ortega are not denying their criminal actions! There are only three people on Earth that I know of, that are denying their criminal actions. Tony Ortega, Leah Remini, and Mike Rinder.
“Backpage knows that it facilitates prostitution and child sex trafficking. … Backpage does not deny that its site is used for criminal activity, including the sale of children for sex.”
Leah Remin and Mike Rinder are crying out for law enforcement to investigate the Church of Scientology. But when a Senate Investigations Report is out in front of them they rush from the room.
Some people would rather be hated for who they are, than loved for who they are not.
The actor’s role in life is to make people love them for who they are not.
Yes. Yes. and YES. So true.
Anyway, now Leah is selling sweatshirts and plagiarizing.
“In a time of universal deceit—telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” – Leah Remini
I mean seriously, this is on her website.
She is claiming credit for George Orwell’s ideas and words.
And right underneath she does that she says, “Whatever you do, always look for the truth in everything”.
Leah! It is UNIVERSAL RECEIPT TO CLAIM GEORGE ORWELL”S WORK AS YOUR OWN!
I meant, universal deceit. I was probably thinking of the receipts she was counting selling herself as a beautiful mind on George Orwell’s legacy.
So she’s basically plagiarizing Eric Blair AKA George Orwell. This is ironic on so many levels. First here she is deceiving others by plagiarizing a quote and then secondly giving the false impression that she has anything to do with “truth” unless it has to do with her association with the Media Complex that Orwell presciently named the “Ministry of Truth” which “dealt in lies”.
Anyway after getting past her initial deception we come to the crap she’s selling which are sweats probably cheaply made in China that say “Don’t be Culty” excuse me while I laugh my ass off.
Does anyone in Remini’s lil’cult on A&E ,a show that manages to get a million faithful followers while all their other shows barely get a 100 grand, see any inconsistencies here?
Of course not. We’re the stupid ones here, don’t you know. (sic) Did I spell stupid right? I’m not sure…
I just looked at that website above. She’s selling a cheap-shit hoody with “Don’t Be Culty” printed on the front for $40! Unbelievable. Here comes Leah’s ACC, Anti Cult Cult
“Clearing the Planet of Cult Indoctrination, Programming and Brainwashing”
She is also calling them “limited editions”. Reminds me of that group that were selling prints for thousands of dollars at the base for “author services”.
I could call someone in China tomorrow and order a million of these without much ado.
Leah’s switch to cults in general may mean she has run out of material about Scientology. And if she just disappeared, it would look like the whole thing ended not with a bang but a whimper.
I have to say if I was selling those hoodies they would have been silk. And my catchphrase would not have been stealing from someone else but a catchy, “Let me run a can’t have on your beingness”.
I would give her a little slack. Before the sweaters, she was selling autographed pictures of herself. Maybe the show makes money for her.
That same lightweight hooded sweatshirt can be bought anywhere for $10. If you want to become a millionaire start a religion – or a cult.
Hey, Paul Haggis has been accessed of rape. The accusers says he forced anal sex on her. That seems kind of sadistic to me.
He isn’t denying any of it, except to say it was consensual.
For once I am at a loss for words.
I still love you
XXOO Some things are unkillable.
The main reason the Ortega cult strikes me as looney is that every month or two when things get slow one of them gets up and tries to unmock Marty.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
That is, when they’re not too busy posting kitty pictures and arguing about the finer points concerning what Hubbard meant by “passionate”.
Hi Marty –
In your deposition for Ken Dandar, you gave detailed information about what you and Mike did every day for COB regarding handling “external situations” – critics and enemies of the church. Basically you said that you and Mike briefed Miscavige every day on all actions taken to “handle” critics and the Church’s “enemies”.
I would think that after 2 seasons of Scientology and the Aftermath, at least one crime would have been able to be reported that the Church of Scientology committed in the 22 years you guys were reporting to David Miscavige.
And since Leah Remini has said that she wanted a federal investigation, and since they went to that attorney’s office in New York at the end of Season 1, I thought that the exposure of the Church of Scientology as a “criminal organization” would have been their highest priority.
They sure made it seem like it was, at least.
Yet not one crime has come from Mike or Leah’s lips. Not one thing that any federal agency could even investigate.
This leads me to two possible conclusions:
1. There are no crimes to report. As Chris Owen recently wrote on Tony Ortega’s blog, everything Scientology does, while morally reprehensible, is legal. In 6 years, even the intrepid Tony Ortega hasn’t reported any crimes that can be prosecuted. (And, by the way, after 6 years of Tony Ortega’s impotent reporting, DM is still firmly in power)
2. Scientology and the Aftermath is David Miscavige’s “All Clear Unit”, designed to distract and prestidigitate everyone away from anything prosecutable by “pushing 2D buttons” and other hysterical bullshit so that no one finds out anything that can be prosecuted.
As you say, Mike Rinder has been out for 10 years now, and everything he says “they” did was always something “they did” and never anything HE DID. And he keeps talking about how all his OSA operations were so COMPARTMENTED, etc etc so he couldn’t POSSIBLY know anything that really ever went on.
And yet, as you showed, he reported to DM everyday on all on-going “handlings” of external enemies.
So what gives here?
Is Scientology and the Aftermath David Miscavige’s All Clear Unit, or is there really nothing prosecutable to report?
What do you think?
I’ll let Marty respond on his own but even though I am not a big fan of “former” MI6 asset Chris Owen I do agree with his general assessment as you’ve stated:
“There are no crimes to report. As Chris Owen recently wrote on Tony Ortega’s blog, everything Scientology does, while morally reprehensible, is legal. In 6 years, even the intrepid Tony Ortega hasn’t reported any crimes that can be prosecuted. (And, by the way, after 6 years of Tony Ortega’s impotent reporting, DM is still firmly in power)”
The above decision was made after the GO debacle by the “Sea Org Junta” as I call them to avoid any going after their main opposition which at that time was the US Government and concentrate on harassing critics of the Church instead.
This is pretty much implied in Merrell Vannier’s book Arrows in the Dark:
Also in Miscavige’s long turgid speech given at the so called “IRS Victory” event in ’93:
Where he brags about overthrowing the GO (mutiny) and saving the Church from its highest Executives which are both considered “Suppressive Acts” according to Scientology’s own Ethics and Justice Codes and making friends with the US Government.
Anyway Mike’s OSA was involved in various actions against critics of the Church that although were “legal” would be considered morally and ethically reprehensible which are covered in Wires’ article Alt Scientology War:
Funny thing is as in strange is that these actions pretty much stopped after Rinder left his post in OSA with the exception of a few that were directed at Marty and Mike which I’ve come to suspect were used to give Rinder his street cred in the Anti Scientology Community.
But let’s just say as Inspector Finch of V for Vendetta says “it’s a feeling” nothing back up by any tangible evidence.
“Funny thing is as in strange is that these actions pretty much stopped after Rinder left his post in OSA with the exception of a few that were directed at Marty and Mike which I’ve come to suspect were used to give Rinder his street cred in the Anti Scientology Community.
But let’s just say as Inspector Finch of V for Vendetta says “it’s a feeling” nothing back up by any tangible evidence.”
I think it may be more #1 than I have thought in the past. I suspect there were incidents where they did some stuff that was questionable, but I don’t think they were out in the forest burying bodies. We probably already know most of it. Destroying evidence in the Lisa Mcphereson case, hiring PI’s spy on people, surveillance, probably including phone taps, computer hacking, etc. I don’t know if anyone will be motivated to sift through all that for something illegal or not. I honestly wouldn’t want Marty or Mike to have any legal trouble over it even though I’m not a follower of the ASC.
Alanzo: “This leads me to two possible conclusions:
“1. There are no crimes to report. As Chris Owen recently wrote on Tony Ortega’s blog, everything Scientology does, while morally reprehensible, is legal.”
Is it possible there wasn’t even anything all that morally reprehensible that Mike did? I’m not sure if Marty’s point was that Mike isn’t talking about the things he did at OSA because they were reprehensible – or if it’s because even that sort of thing didn’t really occur. And if the latter is the case, this is what would make the Aftermath show “phony from the word ‘go’.”
Mike did some very morally reprehensible and questionably ethical actions while he was head of OSA. See the Wired article I posted. Ask Tom Klemesrud, David Mayo, Dennis Erich et al.
In my opinion OSA under Rinder carried out actions that were very similar to the GO’s Operation Freakout on multiple individuals who were considered “critics” of the Church.
Thanks, RV. You mentioned Tom Klemsrud, and one thing the Wired article stated was this: “In mid-January , Klemesrud reported a truly bizarre incident: he claimed his apartment was smeared with blood by a woman he’d met in a bar. In Klemesrud’s version, this attack was meant to frighten him into closing Erlich’s account.”
However, when Mike was asked by a poster (Rod Keller) about the above , he said the following: “Rod, if I had any idea about this I would have talked about it long before now. I havent got a clue what this is about and I have asked Marty about it and he doesnt know either….” https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tommy-davis-and-jessica-feshbach-wtf/#comment-7859
So let me ask you this, since you are convinced that “Rinder carried out actions that were very similar to the GO’s Operation Freakout on multiple individuals who were considered ‘ciritics’ of the Church,” can you give a couple of specific examples of what you think he should be talking about that he isn’t?
Also, RV, here’s part of a comment Mike posted in another comment thread, in a reply to Alanzo:
“Realize that because I was the head of OSA (or WDC OSA) for many years doesn’t mean I knew about everything that happened in detail. In fact, because I was a SPOKESPERSON I was NOT privy to a lot of things. The ones that I did know about, like following John Sweeney I have talked about. The information about the activities against Tory and Chuck Beatty I have made known. But I cannot talk about what I don’t have specifics about.
“Those who strive for information about Intell actions are going to have to wait for Warren McShane, Linda Hamel, Neil O’Riley, Doug Jacobsen, Ben Shaw, Charlie Earle and a few others to speak up. There is enormous compartmentalization in scientology, and especially in the intelligence activities.” https://www.mikerindersblog.org/la-model-ideal-double-st-hill-size-sea-org-command-team-fail/#comment-109039
Mike’s point about “compartmentalization” was strongly corroborated by a couple former GO staff on that same comment thread.
Ask me or Mike.
Rinder most definitely did exactly that to us, and the coward still won’t admit to it and has continued part of the very same campaign against us that HE orchestrated. The interesting thing is that Karen and many other supposed “ex’s” are doing the exact same thing as well.
I think Leah is following L Ron’s advice of making a “noisy investigation”. He said himself often nothing is found, but just the fact of being “investigated” sets people back. “The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.” That’s what Aftermath is all about. If you can’t find any real threat, manufacture one. She and Mike, and whoever is behind the scenes, rumored to be Kare, are simply using Hubbard’s own playbook against the Church.
Could it be that Mike (and possibly Marty) are / were double agents right from the git go?? Wormed their way deep into the dark underbelly of SPness. It never did make sense to me that Mike would trash his older kids, his brother and even his Mom for being Scientologists. And, it is very difficult to listen to the bulk of LRH’s lectures, assuming Mike did, and not be somewhat amazed at LRH’s insight into life and spirit. Us old Scientologists especially at class 4 org levels, never really got a chance or the time to enjoy a good LRH lecture. Some, most, if not all, are truly genius.
Way to try and put people in Doubt about Marty. Casual-like. Just in passing. Like nobody would notice.
Michael A. Hobson
Mike H. – Marty allowed my post to go through, real casual like! He could have easily nixed it. Surely, the thought about OSA planting double agents into the SP media industry must have crossed your mind too? Who better than 30 year SO OSA veterans who signed a Billion year agreement! The mystery continues. BTW – there is no such thing as an Independent Scientologist, that term is a good example of an oxymoron.
I feel bad for all of the people in class lV Orgs and missions that didn’t ask for any of this. The people in the Sea Org that didn’t ask for any of this. The thousands of people that never harmed, attacked or suppressed anybody while they were exploring Scientology.
The heap of injustice and abuse falls down upon them, through the people out here complaining about abuse and injustice, and stigmatizing them.
Keren De La Carriere and her flock, Tony Ortega and his flock, Mike Rinder and his flock, Michelle Sterling and her flock, have generated more abuse and injustice and ill will upon Scientologists in the last five years than all of the 70 years combined before them.
Let’s keep the accounting straight at least.
Tony Ortega has devoted himself full time for the last five years to harming, attacking and suppressing Scientologists. While pushing a book about something that happened to Paulette Cooper decades ago like a tragedy.
At least she got a payout as amends.
When is he going to pay out for damages he has caused? In the last five years or the five years before while he destroyed families working for Mike Lacey to launch Backpage.
His flock do not even ask themselves why Tony Ortega has been holed up underground in a “secret” location he calls an “Underground Bunker” since he was pushed out of profit sharing with Village Voice media who owns Backpage.
It is because there are angry parents out there.
Letter from one mother being read at Google shareholder’s meeting.
Yes. I have been asked by MANY parents if I know the location of Tony Ortega.
And he knows it too. This is why he never, ever, ever, announces or indicates where he can be found or located. You think his annual meetups are kept super secret because of Scientologists? Who holds a convention to worship and honor himself and does not announce the location?
Howdy Con – Man.
He has it all rigged now so that if he is ever arrested or assaulted, people will be convinced it is all about SCIENTOLOGY.
Not his OWN CRIMES against Humanity. He has his victim card quietly up against his sleeve and ready to play.
I’m getting the impression you don’t like Tony Ortega.
I’ll never be the poster child for ” #SheKnew “. Leah got her declare this week. I think her posters are in print right now.
“double agents right from the git go?? Wormed their way deep into the dark underbelly of SPness. ”
Sure it’s possible. Actually, even highly probable in Karen, Mike R., and some others cases. I disagree with the rest of your assessment though.
Scientology….. “White people problems” lol
You nailed it.
Both Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were leading figures in Scientology, and followed Church policies. Under the rule of David Miscavige, they eventually left the Church and turned into its opponents. Mike Rinder is still such. Marty Rathbun, after a long spell as an opponent and informant, has turned into an apologist. Neither holds the morally high ground. No one does, including myself and other contributors on this site. As for Miscavige, there is ‘no comment’ and silence, except for his choreographed Church appearances.
Actually, Don, the overwhelming majority of Scientologists never harmed or abused anyone, and never would. They were not in the Sea Org, and they especially were not at Int Base.
But the idea that having been a Scientologist makes you some kind of a criminal with a leprous social disease is simply not true for the overwhelming majority of those who ever got themselves involved in Scientology.
Anti-Scientology is being run right now by the very people who were the most abusive people in Scientology. It’s a pretty bizarre situation, but you can tell because the hysteria from anti-Scientologists is at about the same fever pitch as the hysteria around Scientology when these people were running things from the Sea Org and Int Base.
Too few of them have even stopped to take a breath and spotted that they are using the same Sea Org mentality as anti-Scientologists as when they were fanatical Sea Org members.
I completely agree. The vast majority of people I got to know, when I was ‘in’ the church, are decent people who were there to increase their ability to be happy and do well and to help another achieve similar gains. Now, whether in the church or not.
I always assumed that the ones on top, running the show, were of like mind and very, very ethical and able and were there in charge, because of that. Finding out (starting with Debbie Cook’s brilliant email) of the corruption and dishonestly which actually was/is present – everything made sense. No wonder the church had gotten so fucked up! And now many of the very same people who fucked things up while inside are trying to do the same from the outside blaming the very actions, they originated and created, as the why the church (and everything Scientology) must be destroyed. Unfortunately, it seems no responsibility has been assumed for their actions and smoke and mirrors are attempting to disperse attention and lay cause elsewhere.
Alonzo – To your point and to paraphrase LRH “What you resist you become” and on the technical side these ex-SO now ASC guys “snapped terminals”; further, most of the born ins, or those dragged in by their ‘mothers” are PTS, they were not doing Scientology on their own determinism, but only to please Mom et al = PTS from the start. Leah and Mike got NOTHING out of their 30 years of Scientology study??? That is amazingly HARD to do!!! Not Is-ness at its finest!! At least Tony O has an excuse – he is just an old time, full track SP.
I hope Santa Clause is bringing you a box of crayons for Christmas. You have taken “abstract” to a whole new art form.
IAS trophies could be useful for re-gifting.
Heh. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Donald – No disrespect, but what is your point? It seems you are just stating the obvious except for your reference to policy. DM was applying “purpose” – not necessarily “policy”. And, it seems to me the “purpose” was directed by LRH, since purpose is senior to policy.
Well, I think everyone crossing here has been very well informed. You are all at #YouKNow about Tony Ortega. Or #YouKnew.
You can figure out what the rest of the world thinks of you.
As for me, there is no more information I am leaving out on the table. About things happening in the present or future.
Things are about to get a whole lot different on Earth. We have nothing but time here before us.
Every right move matters. Every wrong move matters. It always has and it always will.
I’m in a good place. I know who you are. And I know who you are not. So do you and everyone else.
Thank you all for attending the first true trials. Trials as in, a test of the performance, qualities, or suitability of someone or something.
And thank you Marty, for hosting them.
Outside the bubble of these blogs, Scientology WOG discussions in my Clearwater community are brief and limited to “meh”, or “Disconnection must be hard”. Culture is generally skeptical of zealots, and more so of religious zealots. While Rathburn/Ortega war rages, not much changes. In my neighborhood near Flag, Whales are renovating mansions, hosting holiday parties, walking the dog and chatting with WOG neighbors (only difference is they no longer mention that they are in town “on course”). City of Clearwater reverses plans and works to sell lots to COS for continued downtown development….SEAorg bustles in/out of local groceries, clinics.
Biggest Scientology news is Joy Villa being exposed as fame seeker who used naive Trump supporters. Who didn’t see that coming?
In my opinion, the A&E program generated sympathy for the Scientology faithful and pressed for reform of abusive practices. LRH may raise eyebrows, but so does resurrection and an afterlife of unlimited virgins. Not much different than documentaries about Catholic priest abuse, Muslim female genital mutilation, Government corruption. Netflix current most popular -Mindhunter- is about serial killers – what does that tell us?
While Scientology sites might get more traffic after the A&E exposure, the comments sections of Ortega’s site and this one still consist of a small community of dedicated Scientology watchers/believers/angry ex’s. Like other focused political/cultural commentary blogs and Twitter feeds, the comments initially allow a community with shared interests to bond….but most get taken over by “like think” enforcers that drive out casual participants.
The most interesting and educational comments for me over my ten years of lurking on the Boards and blogs (started after researching a neighbor) are those sharing personal experiences and reflecting on the impact of Scientology on self and family – positive and negative. Those are now rare.
The “blog war” is boring.
Thank you for coming out against Leah Remini and others who seem to have no other purpose than to destroy the Church. I was in Scn for 27 years and although I realize the church itself is a work in progress, I still have a lot of positive thongs to say about why it is a bonafide religion and how it has very significantly helped me and my family. Most of my time in Scn was in Detroit, was on staff there for 3.5 yrs, but was also on lines for 3 years in D.C., then at Flag for a year in 1986-87, then eventually moved to L.A. in 1991. In about 1994, I was declared SP over a child support issue, even tho I had written approval from the IJC to proceed with legal action via my request to thru the State of Michigan, i.e. I never hired a lawyer. Anyhow, just wanted to thank you and let you know I might be able to help you present a more balanced perspective.
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