The Virus That Killed Scientology Inc.

The following is an excerpt from What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding.  It might provide some food for thought.

Virtually everyone whom I have met who knew L. Ron Hubbard personally described him in words to the effect of “larger than life.”  That comes from a wide spectrum of people, from those who loved him to those who sharply criticized him.  I never met him, and in a way I am glad I did not.  To me, the ultimate worth of what he created can only be measured against the standard of whether what he wrote and lectured about can produce desirable effects or not.  In the end, that is how he wished it to be.  He noted in one of his final journals to Scientologists that his legacy would be the technology he would leave behind – not his personality, not his biography, not his recognitions and awards, not any God-like abilities that others must continue to create in their minds and rely upon, and not his frailties and shortcomings.

    It was Hubbard’s charismatic and infectious personality that led critics back in the ’80s to predict that Scientology would die once he passed away.  Some have since claimed that Hubbard’s January, 1986 death did indeed mark the beginning of the end of Scientology.  While both of these assertions were close to the mark, in my view they were not quite accurate in a couple of respects.  First, a semantics note.  True, the church of Scientology is dead, for all intents and purposes. But that is an organization, a corporate conglomerate.  Scientology itself is a religious philosophy, and that has not died.  A philosophy cannot be killed, any more than an idea can be extinguished. True, the church of Scientology began to die after its founder’s demise.  However, the passing of Hubbard did not kill it.  Instead, during the confusion and pain of Scientologists’ mourning Hubbard’s death, a deadly virus was stealthily injected into Scientology culture.

    That virus was a falsehood.

640 responses to “The Virus That Killed Scientology Inc.

  1. you tease

  2. Goose Bumps

  3. Looking forward to part deux

  4. Sapere Aude

    +100 – Goose Bumps of anticipation from most of us. Goose Bumps of fear from those hidden in the darkness that lurks beneath. As the sunshine of truth pierces the veil of falsehood and deceit a new day of enlightenment will dawn. Can’t wait!

  5. You are spot on, Marty. While Scientology the corporate entity lies rotting in a ditch, dead from its self inflicted viral injection, the subject of Scientology, the technology and philosophy, is a completely different matter.

    While we were running Birmingham Org in the UK for 14 years, it amazed Lucy and me how many people (Dianeticists and Scientologists alike) walked back into the org unannounced many years after their last involvement. These were people we had never heard of or the org had long since lost track of. The most memorable was a chap who had actually attended L. Ron Hubbard’s Birmingham lectures in 1953 and here he was forty or so years later reaching for help again. And that was the common thread – it seemed that those that had collided with Hubbard’s tech knew where to go when the chips were down.

    Add to that phenomena points such as the fact that the book: Dianetics has sold fifty million copies in the world at large, and many of those have been passed from hand to hand and read by more than one person, quite independent of modern orgs I might add, one can only conclude that Scientologists remaining in Radical Corporate Scientology form only a tiny percentage of those interested in the subject.

    Add to that stellar technical results being achieved by Indies and you have to conclude that, while the corpse of corporate Scientology continues to rot, the subject is very much alive and well. No thanks to David Miscavige, of course.

    Look forward to reading your book!!

  6. I can tell the book is going to be a non-stop read! I love your writing style and the clarity of viewpoint comes across perfectly.

  7. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    I agree with Laura Ann: Goose bumps!

  8. TheWidowDenk

    May I add to the first part of your comment Haydn? When I was busted from HAS to Letter Reg at LA Day — 1980 as I heard of the John Lennon assassination on the radio in the Letter Reg office — I wrote tons of letters to the public. One guy had been off lines for years but, rest assured, when his wife became pregnant, he sent in full payment for an intensive of auditing to HELP her. Rachel

  9. Actually, the Church began to die *before* Ron’s death. DM was in the process of killing it years before. In fact, sometimes I wonder if that “virus” was planted even years before Miscavige.

  10. I hope you do a Kindle release of this book Marty.

  11. It is always true that what is wrong with a person is what’s been added to him. And the same is true with Scientology.

    In the last three decades Scientology has been added to and added to by David Miscavige and his enablers to an extreme… to the point where the Church is no longer even recognizable as itself because it now represents the opposite of what it once was.

    The glue that enabled the additives to stick was a falsehood leveled at every individual in Scientology sometimes phrased “you have overts” and sometimes phrased “you are out ethics” or “you are an SP.” The fundamental of attack is an intentional misapplication of ethics that penetrates a soft spot in the average person’s armor — the knowledge that they aren’t perfect. This falsehood clear cuts a path for the new machinery to roll in, because it renders all targets malleable and introverted.

  12. The date coincedence for my personal progress up the Bridge was the death of LRH. While he was alive, I made the most progress up the Bridge and had my biggest wins.

    I was able to be a pilot PC on the Purification Rundown, Key to Life, the Running Program, Happiness Rundown to name a few and got up the Bridge through my OT Levels onto and thru audited NOTS and then onto Solo Nots. All as a staff member on 2 1/2 hours of enhancement a day.

    All while LRH was alive. Love him or hate him, the tech worked for me.

    Then following his death, the downward spiral began into unending Sec Checks and actions that were not part of the Grade Chart for me personally. Pulled off Solo Nots onto unending procedures violating the non interference zone. All at the direction of a real SP – David Miscavige.

    All in an effort to control people and make them his slaves and obedient servants.

    It took time for those alterations of the Bridge and procedures to reach down to the Flag Land Base and eventually to orgs and missions, but the downward spiral began then. Way before the “Golden Age of Tech”.

    Ray Mithoff who was left with protecting the tech was a pawn under the thumb of DM and bent like a wet noodle.

    People may have bad opinions of David Mayo, but I will say this, when I was around him, he did not put up with DM and his bullshit that he tried to pull and eventually DM went around Mayo directly to Broeker and LRH and turned Mayo into a “traitor” in LRH’s eyes and he was forced out. The work of a real SP – David Miscavige.

    So I agree with you Marty. Those that want to move up the Bridge and follow the real Technology of LRH should look to the processes and procedures that were created while LRH was alive. Then true progress up the Bridge can happen.

  13. I think you will shed a lot of light on the world.
    I think dm must be squirming in his little boots.

  14. martyrathbun09

    Mark, thanks for the history. You are right, from that point forward no staff were allowed to audit on Solo Nots for any substantial amount of time. Very few ever got through audited NOTs – only those who performed extraordinary measures to do it outside of Miscavige’s radar.

  15. martyrathbun09

    It’ll happen – just not sure when.

  16. one of those who see

    Can’t wait to turn the page!

  17. VERY astute and insightful point!

  18. Already hooked! And when does it come out??!

  19. Mark — I have the same experience. I made it onto NOTs in 1979 and not a step further, until I left and Marty then got me moving and finally onto OT 7. And I agree with you about David Mayo. Unfortunately though, he went off the rails after he left, eventually taking a pay off to go away (though he lasted a long time — thanks in large part to Sarge Gerbode). And yes, most of all, I agree that havoc was wreaked by a real SP — David Miscavige.

  20. The virus is not A falsehood – it is FALSEHOOD.

  21. HannibalTheFirst

    This is right on. I love studying LRH, I love the tech and I had great wins. What threw me off already in 1986, were the constant falsehoods propagated by the church. It starts with simple things like the “FLAG the friendliest place on earth.” FLAG was a cold, rude money grabbing machine. I do want to differentiate here between staff, – human beings- , and the Organization. I met a few caring and nice staff at FLAG. But their attitude was not the attitude of the organization, they had to almost to work against it to add some decency to this operation. The “friendliest” place on earth in really was an organizational shithole of money grabbing and disregard for others. We always had a major release when we were on the plane leaving FLAG. 10,000 On OT 7 to save the civilization? Another big falsehood and lie. All it was is getting people to FLAG where they could get best money raped. If the plan was really to boost the number of people activley working on Solo Nots, a first Grader could have come up with a better plan to make it actually doable and affordable to do so. Almost everything the Church says consists of falsehoods. Wherever you look, Ideal Org, Super Power and on and on all lies and falsehoods propagated by this unholy Church of Scientology.
    Right on Marty, Falsehoods is whate permiates this Corporate Church at every level.

  22. I’m infected with curiosity now. 😉

  23. FCDC Class of 74

    It was always about the philosophy DMSMH caught my attention and was my first innoculation of sanity. Here’s hoping Mary that your books will act like a booster of sorts as it has to do with the virus. Can’t wait for my appointment and another dose of reality in this case sanity. Bill

  24. Damn. Mechanical definition of truth — exact time, place, form and event.
    Mark, and Marty and Mike who added, this is sure a fascinating aspect of history. Context is important as it relates to that mechanical definition. There is sooo much missing context (and dare I say added inapplicable or misrepresented context), hence truth, from the Radical Taliban Scientology’s version of history (DM’s) that I still get dumbounded.

    Agape in anticpation of the first installment of your more formally published works, Marty.


  25. Freedom Fighter

    You know, I just had a thought (newish to me, but not so new to most here, I’d wager): the “church” has gone from focusing on spirtuality to focusing on MEST — shiny new buildings, lavash event sets, flashy graphics on a screen, opulent versions of the materials, etc. Instead of a place where one can come to go free, it’s become one big Theta trap and implant station. Yes, the opposite of what LRH intended and the opposite of what it was meant to be.

  26. Mark, good post and I did have very similar experiences as you.

    After you left, there were efforts to “get Qual standard” with full renovations on the building to include a huge Qual Library with terminals for searching LRH tech on the Incomm system and creation of a Tech Training Corps training full time in order to make staff auditors. However, as you guessed it, every single person and the In Charge was busted and removed after a short time and no auditors made.

  27. I haven’t ever heard it called a virus before. It will be interesting to get your take on how the Virus analogy will be made. The post LRH time frame was critical for Miscavige to grab power. I’m hoping you will give us insight on how no-one was able to stand up to him at that time. The inner circle (so to speak) when it went from being a committee to being a dictatorship and the mechanics of how that was accomplished. I’m guessing it the “Big-Fat-Lie Virus?” BFL for short?

  28. You make an excellent point. Some of the new machinery that rolled in…

    In addition to the items you noted, there has been the issue of ‘participation’ raised by the “group think” of the organization. By simply raising the question it subtly puts the organization in a position of ‘know best’ as to what one should or should not be doing relative to the subject of $cientology.

    And of course if you think that perhaps you could have (or should have) done a bit more……then you can make up for it with some fiat currency created out of thin air with your credit card. This action of course shows just how able you are to make it go right. (Best to do this just before your next six month check.)

    Slide the card, sign the stub and then ……….NEXT!! STEP RIGHT UP AND LET ME BRIEF YOU ON THE GREATEST GAME ON THE PLANET WHERE EVERYONE IS A WINNER………….(note the tea and cookies on the table near the couch) ……..and the games begin.

    Note: the burnt piece of toast on the cushion when it’s over is cleverly disguised as an upstat consumer of the CO$.

  29. Steve,
    In HCOB 9 June 60, THE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS OF SCIENTOLOGY VERSUS OVERTS, LRH points up exactly what you have referred to: “The entire secret of all overt-withhold mechanisms is valences.”

    “If the preclear were in no valence, but was himself completely, he would have a perfect test response and would be wholly clear. In this statement we have one of the background structure points of Scientology.”

    “We assumed in Dianetics that if we removed engrams, life would resurge and become good. This assumed that a being was all right until injured and that eradicating the injury would find him all right again.”

    “The Dianetic assumption that Man is basically good and is damaged by punishment holds valid in practical practice and in some tens of thousands of cases (and we’re the only ones in history that validated our findings by strict long, long precise testing on cases); we find that the more we process successfully, the kinder and more ethical our people become.”

    “The basic psychiatric assumption that enough punishment will restore sanity is disproven, not only by psychiatric statistics but by actual observation and removal of the effects of “punishment” by processing.”

    “I knew valences, those mocked up other-beingnesses a person thinks he is, were the source of test profile patterns.

    “When we rid the pc of an undesirable valence his profile rose on the graph and he felt and acted better.”

    “An overt recoils upon one because one is already in a valence similar to that of the being against whom the overt is leveled.

    “The mechanism is exposed. And as it is exposed, we find it is not needed since a being without valences is basically good. Only a being with valences has his overts recoil upon him. Only a being with valences commits overts harmful to others as he is behaving as he supposes the “evil” valence would behave but as no unvalenced being does.”

    You can see the entire fallacy of DM’s continuous sec checking, especially of those on NED for OTs, in the above, as well as his propensity for punishment and the valence he’s in as he dramatizes.

    As well, the truth is apparent, like you point up Steve; what is wrong with Scientology is what has been added to it. Get the actual material duplicated, understood and applied and it can relieve what has been added. The “USUAL” will set things right. Amazing 🙂

  30. I myself never had a problem in Scientology before Hubbard went off the lines. I did notice there were people who operated with a blind trust. And I guess that worked out O.K. for a lot of people. I think when that blind trust was born though it became a situation that Miscavige inherited. Blind trust = No responsibility. A lot of people join the Sea Org on a blind trust. They trust they will be provided for. They trust they will be fed. They trust they will get up the bridge. They trust they will get trained. They trust in justice. They trust in orders. And they trust in David Miscavige for all of the other trust. When it gets to a point where you are only standing on blind trust and not looking anymore, you have a situation. This is true for any peoples in any arena. When it gets to the point that Sea Org Members lie to Sea Org members via false information, the entire theater has become very, very fragile. Trust can be a force or a liability. Injecting a falsehood into any trust makes the trust a liability.

  31. From all accounts, Miscavige expects, and demands, blind trust.

  32. Tom Gallagher

    Hey Marty, are you going to put an autograph on POB’s copy of your new book? By the way, if he uses it as a bedtime story, I’ll bet his nightmares get even more intense.

    Can’t wait to get my copy.

  33. Trust is something people lean on when they can’t KNOW. In Scientology, the art and practice of KNOWING, one should not need to lean on trust at all. Blind trust would be at the opposite end of knowing.

  34. Very very very well said thank you for that

  35. T.O. — No, blind obedience above all else…. There is no crime in the universe greater than not being fully subservient to Dear Leader.

  36. There is an excellent dissertation on the Chart of Attitudes item “FAITH” in the early tapes. I can’t recall offhand which series, sorry, but the concept of that term is covered in detail and how a being IS faith. Trust is on a scale as described in the amplification of the Chart of Attitudes. Rising Scale Processing addressed this so those materials are on the same topic.

  37. Freedom Fighter

    This is a great reference, Jim! I recently did Mary Freeman’s Integrity Program which restores a person’s ability to be themselves and therefore more ethical. From Mary’s website ( ):

    The purpose of this Integrity Program is to bring you into alignment with your highest concept of who you are. Once that is achieved, your natural inclinations and actions will be ethical and beneficial to your life.

    The Integrity Program completely rocked my world (in an incredibly good way). If you haven’t had a chance to do this program, I HIGHLY recommend it. It is such a stark contrast to Ethics as applied in the “church” and actually enables you to be yourself instead of some other valence.

  38. Freedom Fighter

    I should mention that this program was actually approved by LRH and applies only LRH tech.

  39. I guess I was thinking blind obedience would be possible only because of a blind trust. One would have to blindly trust before one could be blindly obedient or fully subservient?

  40. Either way, blindness is required. That is anti Scientological.

  41. But probably why Miscavige describes Scientologists as “The blind leading the blind.”

  42. Li'll bit of stuff

    Mark, thanks for the simple, direct facts. This was the LRH
    I came to know, and respected for his genius. The Scns
    and staff around with me in those early days from ’71 acted
    and felt the same.The ARC was abundant AND infectious
    and David Mayo was highly respected as was his due.

    Using the the most thoroughly evil cunning imaginable,
    Miscavige executed his plots, to (1) isolate and virtually
    imprison LRH, by cutting off and controlling all comm to
    and from him, editing such to suit his satanic purposes.
    (2) Set about destroying ALL who stood in his way for
    his ultimate seizure and control of Scn, by ruthless use
    of toxic false reports and the most heinous 3rd party
    chapters ever recorded in Scn history.

    I’m sure this is just the beginning of a fresh new cycle
    of rants that will erupt over Mark’s revelations.

    Marty, the suspense is building up here. Nice going &
    thanks for posting

  43. Excellent reference. Reading this made me think: What is the “cold, chrome steel” attitude of the Sea Org except a valence? And a valence of people who are definitely non-survival, such as the SS, the Stasi, the KGB, the Mafia – you name it.

  44. T.O. — I understand, and they are closely related. But I think you can be put in a position whereby you must obey without necessarily trusting he who issues the commands. But we are “arguing” over differences that are not different 🙂 — or at least don’t matter.

  45. ThetaPotata…i’m also very interested in Marty’s take on that on how that could happen. But if i may give my opinion on that…my tenure in the SO lead me to believe that LRH made a grave mistake when he granted the Messengers dictatorial powers over all other SO members and Orgs in Scn. I consistenly found messengers to be ingnorant, vicious, vindictive little monsters with no coneption of such things as love, compassion, respect or any of the theta aspects of LRH’s philosophy. No matter how personally theta, powerful, or honest a staff member or executive was at the time of DMs power grab or thereafter, organisationally they didnt have a leg to stand on. All power was concentrated in a very small and very abberrated click of Messengers who sat atop all orgs and lines. Each of these potential little Hilters had the power of LRH invested in themselves and once LRH was gone, the natural course was for the most ruthless and vicious of the bunch to assume power. Those not willing to use their LRH powers (organisational, not OT) where eaten alive by those more that willing to. The rest is history.

  46. I can’t wait for the book!

    To me, the main difference between before and after LRH moving on is that when LRH was around, no matter how crazy things got, there was always Ron to appeal to. He was a stable datum, in that we KNEW he was true and would not brook BS for long. I also knew he was genuine, that even if he made a mistake, he made it for the right reasons, to wit, to help people do better. If you look at some of the history of Scientology, you see that some of the milestones were LRH stepping in to handle people who were off the rails: the KSW PL, Standard Dianetics of 1969, O/W theory from the ’60s.

    With Ron gone, there was no more real stable datum. No single one, anyway. Who the hell was this French guy Leserve? The child David Miscavige could have RTC, but RTC was not as powerful back then – Dave twisted it into the mess it became after LRH died. Directly after LRH died, the FO stating that Pat and Annie Broeker were designated Loyal Officers spread some confusion, then DM came in and took out the Broekers and put in place Leserve and of course, Heber as president. To my mind, Heber was the only one who made these people legitimate. Heber, lord love him, was a hero. To me, he was the buffer between the madness (yes, madness) of the SO and the rest of us. I hope to God he is still alive.

    I await with baited breath!

  47. No auditors made, or cram offs, or review auditors, or supervisors. Only a proper, standard Qual that could take care of itself and the whole rest of the staff could keep the tech standard, keep staff from misapplying it or falling for squirrel activity from others.

    I believe there were something like 30 additional tech people trained for that new Qual in the big Del Sol building, but every one of them was gone within a couple years again. Pulling weeds, washing dishes, stuffing CD packaging, admin posts–anything but crammed and fixed up so they could get back on the job, get the tech applied, staff up the Bridge and successful at their posts. These posts had international responsibilities–a decision at the int base level made by a messed up caved-in exec effects a lot more people than someone on org or mission staff.

    Undermining the tech from the inside out. Eliminate any resemblance of a Qual at the base and take out KSW at the roots, especially at 8, 9 and 10. Sounds like a little bit of what’s wrong with Scientology…!

  48. FF and Hopper,
    Here’s a snip from the London Spring Lectures of 53, issued as Admiration and Renaissance of Beingness/Factors. This is from a tape entited TYPES of PROCESSES, 27 Mar 53. It is the top of the applicable column of the Chart of Attitudes: And you’re trying to square him around so he’s got a recognition of his beingness.
    Of his identity? No, you want a high level of “I am” and a very low level
    of “I am Joe.” You see?

  49. Roger Thought (LO)

    “a first Grader could have come up with a better plan to make it actually doable and affordable to do so”

    Totally true ! :):):)

  50. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    I agree. I didn´t understand the sentence until you wrote this.

  51. I had the same thought. Miscavige must have been going schizoid trying to figure out ways of stopping publication any way he can. Luckily for us, and mankind generally, the Internet can’t be stopped. Nor apparently can Marty His attempts thus far to apply thought stopping to the world at large have been dismal epic fail. Wow, it really must suck to be Miscavige.

  52. “His” referring to DM obviously!

  53. Roger Thought (LO)

    To Brian:

    In case you don’t read anymore the last blog. My answer to your remark:
    ” Damn Roger, are you thinking Independently? Describing thoughts in your own language? Questioning authority? Directly perceiving a reality after due consideration and a passion for clarity? Allowing yourself to know?

    Standing ovation!

    Never had such a nice ack. I’ll put it into a frame amd post it onto the wall ! 🙂 :):)

  54. LiBit, I unable to put the words “cunning” or even “plot” in the same sentence with Miscagige, personally. Like saying a great white shark is cunning, and makes plots against his prey. No more than a big killing machine, mindless, big strong teeth with insatiable appetite for ripping apart whatever enters the zone of his senses. Very little life force of any theta value, over-restimulated reactive bank fully in charge.

    Marty, So glad your book is coming soon. All these truths are so healing. Looking forward to it very much.

  55. You Know Who

    Ok. So, when is the book available?

  56. Looks good Marty, let us know when the book is due so I can invest heavily in copper just before release.

  57. I love your writing style Marty. Very natural. Also, you aced it on the sub-title — a perfect yin to the title’s yang. Can’t wait for more.

  58. I don’t find it mentioned as I recall, herein or elsewhere on the web, but lets not forget the selectee’s, personal friends and family we’ve all known declared illegal pc’s since Miscavige. Just since Miscavige interestingly enough, hardly ever when Ron was alive or that couldn’t eventually get sorted out.

    Nowadays if you’ve had a little too much valiuum, or talked to a shrink more than thrice … you’re illegal. One being that comes to mind is a long hence acquaintance declared illegal right off when I was PES and told to train through CLIV first and then petition, circa 1985. To his credit he must have said screw it early on and went Indie back in 80’s. He never came back (as did not many others) and I lost track of him but only very recently found out he’s now mid NOTS and doing very well in his business, his life, family and in the Indie field !! How freakin cool is that !!

    It is interesting to me to note the Illegal PC Bulletin was “revised” in 87′, after LRH’s death. I’d love to know more about this story.

  59. Incredible comment.

  60. Doesn’t that sound familar to the Ideal Orgs Program (Idle Orgs)? All Flash and no real delivery.

  61. “…how a being IS faith”

    Jim, right.
    That’s a datum I first have read in APA (Advanced Procedures and Axioms). This book gave me the most wins from study Scientology until today. (Not at least because of this datum.) I have read some elementary books before, but this one blew my mind and changed my whole modus operandi. It’s not my favorite book by LRH, but one of the most effective in my opinion.

  62. Nice comment Mark.
    I think David Mayo did a lot under tough circumstances. I think he did more than Debbie Cook, all things considered.
    If we have empathy for her then I feel it is appropriate for him as well.

  63. Hahaha!

  64. Globetrotter

    Cold chrome steel is matter. Before that, it was force. Originally, under LRH’s command, it was Tone 40 – the correct definition:

    “Now of course tone 40 isn’t yelling. It is simply the degree of intention you can put into some of this. It’s the amount of intention. Now you radiate that intention if your expectancy is good. You don’t have to be loud and haughty or anything of the sort. It’s just the normal action but your expectancy on what you say and so on can have a fantastic effect.” (ESTO Tape 6)

  65. Nightmares indeed.

    “More intense” would be quite the trick, though. With EVERYONE around him being a Martian or an FBI agent (SP Martians and FBI agents, at that!), he lives a non-stop waking nightmare.

    It would be theta to think the book might begin the long and painful process of waking him up. Sadly for him, that’s doubtful. Happily for everyone else, it has enormous potential for waking up many, many others, and opening the door for their return to the path they saw ahead when they first found Scn.

  66. I hope my comment isn’t too non sequitur, it sort of seems to fit at least in part what is wrong with S. If Marty doesn’t address in his book, perhaps it can be addressed herein.

  67. Ronnie Bell

    Interesting and astute view, there, FF.

    I actually derive comfort from handling my old books and materials, and recalling the days of old converted buildings and mismatched furnishings in the orgs. I had my best ever wins in Scientology surrounded by those meager material things. It’s because the group theta exceeded the mest by unfathomable orders of magnitude in those days. Those were the times when I’d drive thirty miles across town just to bask in the safety and love that was prevalent in the orgs. There wasn’t anything else like it in all the world, as far as I knew.

    Which is why we’re all here. The balance between theta and mest has shifted completely the other way in the orgs. They’re no longer the islands of sanity and safety that they once were. In fact, they’re downright scary places today.

  68. … getting my dates sorted out, it was circa early 90s on the example case above. So many folk I saw disillusioned on Div6 lines… perhaps to their benefit as it turns out.

  69. Freedom Fighter

    Exactly! Brilliant stuff. Thanks for the refs, Jim!

  70. How about, “I am Joe and I am a loyal group member who gives all his cash to the registrar.”
    “There ya go, says the ethics officer. Now you got it right….now, about those fifteen extra copies of the basics…”

  71. Journey Continued

    Heber and Guillaume were on their respective posts prior to the old man’s death and prior to DM taking over RTC. DM needed to remove Annie and Pat as well as Vicki and Jesse, as his last potential obstacles to becoming the supreme dictator of Co$.

  72. When Compliance to Orders becomes senior to ARC, the group must devolve into a fascism.

    Ron was a personal friend of mine and he never ever demanded that I believe a single word he wrote, uttered, stated or thought. I was supposed to look and come to my own conclusions based on my own observations, if I didn’t already know.

    The Sea Org started to deteriorate after 1968…as explained by Ron in 1972 in an eval he did called “The High Crime FO”. The High Crime FO gave the absolute minimum requirements to become a Sea Org member. When that auditing requirement was alter-ised to become “sec checks”…that was the beginning of the end because without that auditing pre-req to become an SO member…the person was incapable of being cause (and thus responsible) to the degree necessary to actually BE a SO member.

    Add to that the ser fac/evil purp of demanding or enforcing compliance to orders in the absence of real ARC…and that was the nail in the coffin.

    All DM did was take advantage of a basic misunderstanding of the importance of ARC and shove it down our throats to the point where we vomitted integrity to “stay alive”.

    The entire Indie movement is, IMHO, a natural reaction to the enforced overt have or denied wanted have…coming from the SP connection. True, it would have been more ideal to take DM out when he was small…but maybe we all needed to learn that lesson, you know? There is an FO where LRH talked about the giddy diaper days being over…and how he won’t always be here to ‘save our asses’ (paraphrase).

    Welcome to present time.

    Thank you, Marty, for putting the comm line there so we could as-is this 3d engram. I appreciate all that you have done to remedy this abuse of power we have all been forced to experience through our own lack of belief in ourselves to be fully responsible for the activity. The book ought to be a fun read.


  73. Mike Hobson

    Miscavige grabbed power long before Ron Hubbard passed away. He had Pat Broeker’s help doing it. These two were caught altering reports and other comm traffic to/from Ron by David Mayo in November 1981 (according to a published briefing by Mayo after he left Co$ ).

    Michael A. Hobson
    Indendent Scientologist

  74. Brian Culkin

    This looks amazing

  75. Path of Buddha

    This idea of faith and blind trust is common in the subject of
    religion. When I was actively teaching Buddhism, this was one of the most
    frequent questions from students. I heard a talk by a senior monk and
    he made the point that faith is required at the beginning of the path.
    In Buddhism, if this faith is not replaced by progress, it turns into
    blind trust and rituals.

    May all blind-faithful beings be well and happy!

    George M. White

  76. Brian Culkin

    It’s on the Advanced Procedure and Axion lectures
    Wichita, 1952
    CD 6 I believe from memory

  77. Ronnie, you are so right about the best ever wins being had “surrounded by those meager material things”.

    What the hell, where I once audited, the space generally, and my 4×4 auditing room in particular, were infested by cockroaches. Sometimes they would crawl up and down the wall during the session. No matter, a quick squirt of Raid, and they would be dispatched to their next lifetime.

    But the pcs were winning like mad. And there were tons of auditors being made, and no shortage of public or staff pcs. Production was high, and anyone who walked in could perceive the theta.

    Such a contrast to the scene in PT.

  78. Thats true mike, they moved into position prior to LRH’s passing, but the full on power grab didnt go into motion until LRH passed. DM was selectivly burning various terminals beforehand and putting his hands on the levers, but when LRH passed, thats when he really went into action and started the larger purges, etc. My main point regards the granting of LRH organisational power to the Messengers, of which DM was one QED.

  79. This is a great quote. My view is that “tone 40” is probably the most misunderstood word there is, especially as far as staff is concerned.

    If all staff, especially SO execs, had from Day 1, word cleared the hell out of this single paragraph, M9’d it, clay demo’d it, and Chinese schooled it daily, I really believe most of the problems of the Church would never have come into existence.

  80. one of those who see

    Great Comment and great to hear from you!!

  81. That is so incredibly true! Just today I did a quick scan of everyone I could remember from all my years on staff, from all the orgs I trained at, people I met, audited, trained with, etc. I honestly cannot say even one of them was an SP. Not a single one. Yet most of them felt they were SPish or out-ethics and were cowering in some aspect of their life. If you want to ruin a person, make them feel guilty and bad, invalidate the rightness of the being – over and over and over and that’s what you get. Robots in a dying corporation that delivers nothing that it promises and actually makes you worse for being there.

  82. I agree with this. David Mayo got into a fight there was no way he could win. Standing virtually alone against this whole track SP, no internet with which to get the message out – what chance did he have?

  83. I respectfully disagree. There was a period during Debbie Cook’s tenure (and maybe a little before) when I thought Flag did live up to its tag line. Sure, there were reges around every corner, but in my experience, they were pretty easy to avoid. The exception being Charmaine – another whole track SP IMO – who could only be beaten off with a stake through the heart and I’m not even sure that would do the job.

    But I digress – point being, the theta vastly exceeded the entheta during that period.

    Then in 1996 it all changed. Virtually overnight.

  84. Whether or not one is or was a personal friend of Ron in this lifetime or another, if one listens to his lectures and reads his books, it is clear that Ron wanted all of us to make our own observations and come to our own conclusions.

  85. GH, excellent points as usual. I would also add that LRH was good at pulling back when he did make a mistake. Such as in 1971 with “blinkless” TR-0, one of the worst mistakes in Scientology history. It actually collapsed what I think was the biggest boom period in Scientology history. Some might recall the thick stacks of goldenrod outside the Ethics Offices throughout the world due to all the new people who blew because they couldn’t pass that ridiculous and impossible requirement on their comm course.

    LRH put it out, kept it in place for a couple of months, tried several different solutions to get people through, but finally had to eat crow and retreat. But that is Executive sanity at work, something Scientology has not seen since at least Jan. 1986 and more likely, fall 1981.

  86. hehe 😆 Good idea!

  87. Globetrotter,
    Wonderful ref from the ESTO tapes. This one is so key to any result, in any area. I love this one. I well recall it and used this in my Cramming to the best of my then awareness and ability. As I’ve moved up the Bridge, this one keeps coming back in its simplicity, now more than ever.


  88. Hello Chiun. Love what you wrote because it’s just so true. I needed this lesson. Of course I wish I never had to experience it, but I certainly needed it. I would not have learned the lesson had Steve not posted his blog and Marty not posted his. My 3D confusion continued until that point. But no more. Lesson learned.

  89. I would have never put faith on the same page as trust.

    Definition of TRUST

    a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something
    b : one in which confidence is placed
    c : dependence on something future or contingent : hope

    confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.
    belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
    belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
    belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
    a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

    Since the only similarity between the two is a line of confidence.

    I wouldn’t even put blind trust on the same page with trust, since these are two very different conditions. Blind trust means the person does not look anymore.

    Trust indicates someone has looked and made an evaluation, decision or judgement.

  90. 😆 Publius, you cracked me up!
    I too had a great experience at Flag in the late 1980s doing BSM and Pro TRs and the Pro Meter course, Pro Registrar course even. But one thing I didn’t have, as a staff member, was money to spend, so all the registrars left me alone to do my thing. 😀

  91. And the more I think about it the more I see this as a GPM in the Sea Org and Scientology. Confusion between trust and faith. Science and religion. In the Church you really are only permitted to trust people in “good standing”. And that is a fragile thing. Basically the trusts are measured out in varying degrees of who you can trust according to certs, post titles, standing, position and authority. The trust is a heavy regulated thing. And on the other hand you are required to have blind trust for RTC, the Sea Org, etc etc. I can see the GPM in there somewhere.

  92. The ones pledged to blind trust make it onto OTVll. Then they get sec checked every six months because they can not be trusted.

  93. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. Well spoken. I agree.
    This High Crime FO, that I would like to read.

  94. And the amount of sec checking these days would signal there is no trust while commanding blind trust. That is a GPM.

  95. In my opinion, the current situation with the Church of Scientology occurred in four stages.

    The first stage is when L. Ron Hubbard left the organization to live on the Apollo in 1966. He was still in communication with the organization but was not there physicality to look at and inspect the situation in person.

    The second stage is when Miscavige started getting power in the organization.

    The third stage is when L. Ron Hubbard left his body in 1986.

    The fourth stage is when David Miscavige took full power.

  96. You’re wetting our whistle Marty. Well OK; bring it. Sacred cows and all.

  97. Hello George,
    yes, I remember it from my Buddhist studies. The term was “faithful trust” (to the dharma, the teacher…) at the beginning of the route to enlightenment.

  98. There is much truth in what you said.
    It may be THE crashing MU of Miscavige as well.
    And thats why “his” empire is shrinking now.

  99. If you need help converting it to eBook format, I can do it for you.

  100. Actually, I meant to put this comment further down under the comment for “Scatjappers”.

  101. Path of Buddha

    After completing OT8 on the Freewinds in 1988,
    I had a brief meeting with Mr. Miscavige.
    He said very little, as I recall.
    He could not tolerate independence.

    May Mr. Miscavige now be well and happy!
    George M. White

  102. Path of Buddha

    Unlike the moth, YOU hit the mark.

    May all beings be well and happy!

  103. Yes Publius, I happened to be at Flag just a few days before Lisa McPherson died there on Dec 5th 1995. I was there over Thanksgiving at the end of November. Flag was already going down like the Titanic, the undertones of dread, sadness, fear and anxiety were palpable, the tone level was sinking fast. I can only imagine what it was like in 1996, when Miscavige probably went completely psycho over it, since it was apparently his Executive CSing that led to her death.

    I can believe it changed “virtually overnight”.

  104. Mike Hobson

    The Illegal PC HCOB was “revised” on account of the utterly disastrous Black Scientology handling of Lisa McPherson resulting in her death – all under the micromanagement of David Miscavige. No mystery there at all.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  105. Yes, that’s right. The new machinery (additives) that rolled in were essentially all DM’s own suppressive policies (or suppression of key LRH policies).

    By condoning, following or even enforcing those suppressive policies, a decent Scientologist then becomes a member of a suppressive group, and eventually he or she becomes suppressive themselves on the 4th dynamic at least, since by forwarding suppressive policies they are harming the 4th dynamic (mankind).

    That’s why the correct action to recover yourself is to apply the steps A through E of the Ethics group. But one does it in the correction direction — not because one is personally suppressive, but because one for a time supported a suppressive regime that is hurting mankind.

  106. Captain Bob

    I asked the sup once at the org, I’d like to see what an F/N looks like on the new simulator. His reply was “unless you are the e meter course, I can’t show you”.

    What’s that say’in, keep no secrets from the public.

  107. “…makes you worse for being there.”
    So, so true.

  108. Captain Bob

    A virus is a secret.

  109. Captain Bob

    but I thought we were seekers of the secrets.

  110. Gosh Jim, that is an awesome reference you found, especially because it nails what DM does — punish everyone around him — and explains why this does not work. The Church is going through a baptism by fire. That fire is white hot truth. Truth is burning away the impurities and DM is choking to death on the smoke. It is literally the Phoenix.

  111. I know better


  112. Great ref Grasshopper. If the person is being a valence, guess what they are incapable of — “being there, comfortably” because they are actually not being there; they are being a valence (a via) that is “being there” for them. I mean, when you look at the undercut that is TR-0… magnificent. So the entire Church has out TR-0. You don’t find good TRs until you go to the Indie field. Marty’s TRs in session are spectacular and effortless. I hear the same thing about Haydn James. And many others. And as you know, TRs and metering are the basics of all auditing. Hence the Church can’t confront, can’t audit, can’t even itsa anything (which incidentally is a trait of a suppressive).

  113. I think it helps to consider it by dynamics. A person comes into the CoS, is a decent person, not an SP. But by following suppressive policies on the 3rd dynamic, they are then being suppressive on the 3rd and 4th dynamics. Scientology is dedicated and only there, really, to help the 4th dynamic. In the earliest writings about Dianetics, LRH’s rationale was “If the human race doesn’t make it, we’re all doomed. And the only way to help them is to make each one sane and able, one by one.” So really the tech is all about helping the human race. So when staff started to follow suppressive policies, they then betrayed that trust. But individually, it wasn’t because they were each individually suppressive. They came on to help. Those in charge then said, “to help, you have to follow this policy.” They thought, “Well, this seems contrary to Scientology, but I perhaps they know best.” But actually they didn’t know best and so now we have to clean up the mess we made. Which we are doing rapidly,

  114. Ronnie Bell


  115. Freedom Fighter

    Thank you for posting this, Chiun. That really indicates.

  116. Hmmm… wow, I never put that together. On Div 6 lines there was a huge difference as time went on. Many “odd” illegal declares. Keep in mind I was Mission staff… (8yrs) so we had no real clue except what came down from above. That and SMI’s management from above we all thought even back then was a pain in the ass joke.

    Thanks Mike.

  117. Beautifully and simply stated, Steve.

    ‘Putting Ethics In On The Planet’ at once makes the planet wrong and goes counter to everything Ron taught: don’t unmock, don’t invalidate, don’t bypass, don’t inspect before the fact, keep the pc winning, run overts AND motivators, maintain ARC, acknowledge and duplicate, take what the pc gives you, etc, etc. The literalness of the slogan makes it utterly stupid. How much ethics do you need to get tech in? Well, if any, no more than just enough!

    Ethics run the wrong way may well be the cause of all personal and organizational failure.

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Davey.

  118. On review Mike, Lisa died in 95… no? The illegal PC bulletin was revised in 1987. I don’t have it to hand, but that was a date I’m recalling, and after which I started noticing more and more illegal PC’s… late 80’s & 90’s.

  119. Well said and thank you Chiun. The insight one can gather from other experienced beings is truly mind boggling. To paraphrase a friend, the truth is never entheta, or entheta is never the truth… something like that.

  120. Yes and excellent post Mark. My progress also mirrored yours. I moved up in the SO through OT IV in 1986 and from that point until after I left when Marty got me through Audited NOTs I not only didn’t move forward, I was forced backwards to repeat rundowns I had already done and had great wins on.

  121. Agree 100% Steve.

  122. Damon Lindelof


    Already out. Only checking in to let all know; we hear you.



  123. Miscavige & OSA must be frothing at the mouth with the suspense.
    Nothing like a bit of mystery to shake up those with something to hide – ain’t the truth a bitch!

  124. one of those who see

    An old friend who writes occasionally as Largo Paris 69 just referred me to a quote by LRH that tells us a lot about what is going on with the Church and those still “following orders.”
    From “Summary of New Work-May 8, 1953” Under “Communication” page 78 in Tech Vol 2: “…Reality is agreement; too much agreement under duress brings about the banishment of one’s entire consciousness.”

  125. Man Steve- you’re in a zone….

  126. Thanks Chiun.
    That was a very nice post.
    I’m curious is Chiun your real name? From your comment you seem to be an old timer. Are you “under the radar”?

  127. 🙂

  128. Li'll bit of stuff

    I’m fine with your opinion, O.O, but haven’t you just described DM’s behaviour to a “T” ? And you don’t
    think a great white is “naturally” cunning and plots
    on how best to strike at it’s prey?

    I like your analogy though, of “Very little life force of
    any theta value, over-restimulated reactive bank
    fully in charge.”

    You sure have me curious,though, as maybe others too, why the handle——–“O.O”?????


  129. Li'll bit of stuff

    Perhaps, O.O, you have already given a clue in your
    last sentence, with the word “healing.” Correct?

  130. Regardless of how many stages it took place in, I always thought the Church of Scientology was a group that always held up something more than they were prepared to give. Or qualified to give for that matter. But, Scientology itself, the philosophy is of course free for anyone to know and practice just as L. Ron Hubbard intended. Yet there is no legitimate Church of Scientology in the world where one can go to practice the philosophy correctly with other people. Many of the accounts of people written to this blog prove this. Like Laura Ann said “goose bumps”.

  131. Li'll bit of stuff

    Publius, thanks for this data, I had no idea that it had become a “ridiculous and impossible requirement on
    their comm course.” I clearly remember a lot of Q&A
    with some for whom it became an issue. But I was
    given the tough, standard TR-O drill as described
    (blinkless!) and flew through, with the biggest single
    win of my Scn career, to date! 3 months totally keyed
    out and nothing, or no-one, could shake that.

    Publius, you may also recall having seen it somewhere,
    LRH quotes; “….what you CAN do, depends on how
    FEW considerations you have, appended to what you
    THINK you can do..) My caps. added for emphasis.

    Do you agree?

    ARC & thanks for your always interesting posts,


  132. There’s a site called You upload your document to them and they give it an ISBN and publish it in all electronic formats and circulate it to Amazon and Barnes and Noble and I believe a few other Internet book sites. It’s free too, you have to market it mind but that won’t be a problem

    The document does have to be to a certain format though which is where Simple Thetan could come in, or me. Simple Thetan may know a better distribution avenue. ST?

  133. I just did a more thorough study on the definitions of Faith and Trust. It seems the difference between them is that trust is based on confidence and faith is based on hope. If you look at the awareness characteristics
    on the grade chart, HOPE is at -2. right down there at the beginning of the grade chart. Below tr’s and objectives. There is no mention of CONFIDENCE as an awareness characteristic, but I would guess that would be around + 19 Conditions. You would certainly need to be able to be aware of people and their conditions to know how much confidence you could place in them.

  134. It took me all day to figure out how someone could be blindly obedient without trust. I finally saw this as a possibility. Like, if someone sticks a gun to your head and demands your pocket book or wallet right? You would not trust them of course but still (many people) would become rather obedient any way just from the possibilities that could occur and hand over their valuables. That would be a lot of stress though. Are there staff at Int living like that on a daily basis? If so, that is very heavy.
    Anyway, congrats to you both on the little bundle!

  135. Li'll bit of stuff

    Marty . Need I even say this?
    Grade zero has just been passed on your Blog—BIG TIME!
    How’s that for results….lurkers & doubters ????

    The build up to Launch day is palpable, dear host, and I wonder what the atmosphere is like in your space, at the moment?
    Gracias, amigo……Calvin

  136. What do you have trust issues? You couldn’t just take Mike’s word for it? See what trust can do? You had to research and KNOW didn’t you? And what a difference a day makes.

  137. laughter ………….. oh my God my ribs hurt!

  138. Steve,
    I LOVE this reference. I ran across it the other day while searching through the Tech Vols ( I have digital copies and can use the search function Dave. It’s real easy, and the Tech just JUMPS out at you. Good stuff, Dave.. I was digging up refs for a Cramming cycle on an auditor and this, among many others just about grabbed me and said READ THIS!!!

    There was the truth about the bullshit DM runs, and lo, in the valence of his dreaded “psychs”. Wow.

    AND, there was the utter fallacy of all the sec checks. Clear as a bell. DM is an ANTI – Scientologist, a Reverse Scientologist. In the SP valence but some solidly.

    Not only that, but boy did I have cogs on the data myself!!! HOLY CATS!! This make so much sense, it is so real to me and I’m still cogniting continuously. Anybody who’s been through this bullshit sec checking, this punishment drive crap, well there it is. OUT TECH.

    And the remedy is released far and wide. Avail yourself of it with a good Indy practitioner.

  139. Oracle,
    It took a second. That was FUNNY. The blind leading the blind, indeed!
    Only not everyone is following him, are we? One day (soon) he will just be leading himself as he goose steps off a cliff.

  140. I remember this, too. Something about “Faith” at the top of the scale, an aspect of Theta itself and “faith-in” somewhere lower on the scale which is often confused with actual “Faith”.

  141. Marty,
    I really like the addendum to the title….. .
    ….”Healing Through Understanding”.
    That completes the thought that I was pretty sure you would be writing about. Beautiful title. Can’t wait.

  142. I just finished PDC tape #15, The Logics: Infinity-Valued Logic. LRH is lecturing on how psychs and others drive people into apathy by enforcing their agreement with the MEST universe, and this has a lot to do with collecting their fees. “You can get a much better fee, a great deal more money from somebody on a downward spiral into becoming MEST than on somebody who is on an up spiral towards becoming theta.”

    Sound like any midget cretin leaders we know?

  143. “Those that want to move up the Bridge and follow the real Technology of LRH should look to the processes and procedures that were created while LRH was alive. Then true progress up the Bridge can happen.”

    I agree.

  144. For me it is a pleasure and a privilege to read the comments on this blog about what was going on “behind the scenes” during the ’80’s from you who were there and could observe first hand. This is very helpful and destimulating for me on the 3D. My thanks to each of you for speaking your truth.

  145. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Thou speak sooth Marty.

  146. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    When you’re good and ready and the time is right?

  147. miscavigeisscaredofsam


  148. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Thanks for sharing this Mark. The more I know about the history of the players in this game the more I understand the overall situation and the validity of the tech itself. It’s an on-going journey and understanding the history of Scientology fully is vital to understanding where I am now. That’s why Marty’s book and the personal testimony of others is so important and eagerly anticipated.

  149. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    ‘Can’t hide’ sure is close to ‘total failure’

  150. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Mike can you PM me the link to that info via FB? Thanks 🙂

  151. miscavigeisscaredofsam


  152. I don’t really see the first stage as throughout the 70’s up till the mission massacre in the early 80’s, Scientology was doing excellent with huge missions and orgs. Up till that time the suppression came from the outside and according to LRH that would never be successful. SP’s are evil but not stupid and must have duplicated that datum. Date coincident with Davey’s hospital cognition that power is assumed, your stage 2,3 and 4 came about.

  153. Journey Continued

    Man you hit the nail on the head with this. It used to be such an up tone and infectious environment. Couldn’t wait to get on course, in session or on post. The theta was positively palpable.

  154. scilonschools

    Appeal For Information of CoS involvement in UK ‘Hollywood’

    Back in the late 50’s and 60’s the Church focused a lot of effort in the ‘heart’ of the then UK film industry based around the studio’s at Shepperton (a leafy suburb of London) and surrounding suburbs of Lower Sunbury and Walton.
    The UK film industry really took a dive in the 70’s (apart from the Bond films) and the usefulness for recruitment of potential ‘Stars’ was lost.

    Properties and assets ‘obtained’ by the Church included a large house and residual assets of a branch of the Wilberforce family (ironic really as it was Wilberforce who finally managed to push through the anti Slavery Act in the UK in 1807)

    These activities largely went of radar decades ago, however a substantial foothold was maintained in the area and seems to have become a centre for ‘Black Ops’ training. To this day there are some ‘interesting’ buildings in the area, one comes to mind , a large unmarked building in a residential with no windows facing the road , tired exterior decoration but bristling with the latest CCTV systems externally.
    Quite often this off the track leafy residential area is flooded with delegates and cars with registration plates predominately from Germany & Denmark.

    I think the area is best summed up by the unusual name of the ‘local’ Estate Agents (Realtors), AEGIS from Wiki ((from Greek αιγίς) is a large collar or cape worn in ancient times to display the protection provided by a high religious authority or the holder of a protective shield signifying the same, such as a bag-like garment that contained a shield. Sometimes the garment and the shield are merged, with a small version of the shield appearing on the garment. It originally was derived from the protective shield associated with a religious figure when related in myths and images. The wearing of the aegis and its contents show sponsorship, protection, or authority derived from yet a higher source or deity)

    Any information gratefully received!

  155. “That’s why the correct action to recover yourself is to apply the steps A through E of the Ethics group.”

    This doesn’t look correct. It looks a bit like an intended blanc CS for anyone who used to be connected to RS. But every individual is different and accepting a suppressive order or doing an off policy action doesn’t make you an SP. So it does matter to which degree you did it and what your actions were when you found out, because per definition a suppressive act is calculated to harm Scientology or Scientologists.
    Most Scientologists never wanted to harm but acted wrongly thinking it’d help Scientology. Applying (and moulding so it fits) Tech for recovering an SP to someone who only acted temporarily and unknowingly in support of a suppressive group, is Out Tech itself.

    Of course, the guy who plucked his prospects knowing they’d loose their $$$, home, pension and go nowhere on the Bridge, to then pluck some more victims, might consider A-E. For most however, the doubt formula would do wonders. If only they could bring themselves to do the announcing to both sides, they’d already get great relieve and even case gain but still they’d have to deliver an effective blow and contribute far beyond the ordinary demands of a group member (which differs from an amends project for IJC).

    A, ha, partial SP declare or an A-E order in a certain direction if you were at any time in any way connected to RS isn’t really productive and may act as a wrong indication.

  156. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    one of those who see

    Thank you for that quote! That just explained something that had been puzzling me hugely for a long time.

  157. 🙂 — not so little any more….

  158. Dave, in a way I feel sorry for you. It is only a matter of time untill your covert treachery from the early eighties will be revealed. To the whole globe!!!!

    We all love stories Dave and Marty gets thousands and thousands of hits. You know Dave, when a movie is engaging and the nemisis seems to be winning, the audience is enraptured and can’t wait for the bad guy to be caught. That is what is happenning here. The audience is going nuts for resolution.

    The burden of your secrets Dave, the foundation of lies that built your kingdom, the stress of being found out that haunts your bedtime pillow; is coming to closure.

    I know you try to forget those early days, in the eighties, when you saw the brass ring. You saw so much power, so much fame, so much adulation. That power quivered in your body like an obsessive desire.

    “This all could be mine”, you thought to yourself. “I can be like Ron. I can be big”.

    But you never planned on the internet Dave. The internet is your silver bullet, cryptonyte, Froto, Skywalker………….. Ha ha and Tom Cruise jumping through shrapnel of exploading bombs to save the world.

    We are Independent Human Beings who honor freedom and decency. Our numbers are in the millions upon millions.

    We detest the tyranical infections of those who would harm innocence to hold the reigns of power.

    Ah, but the movie is coming to an end. We are in the chase scene. And the bad guys mangled and tortured end will be the smiles on the audience faces.

    Mirror mirror on the wall, a little more time and then the fall.

  159. Smashwords is good. Also apple iBooks has its own site. I think if you put it on iBooks, amazon, b&n, and kobo you covert most of the market.

  160. You have not duplicated what I’m talking about.

  161. Very insightful, E.J. I so agree. The last thing we need is another wrong indication. And, most of us have a surplus of “contributions far beyond . . . “:)

  162. morelivesthanacat

    Faith: Fear suppressed by Optimism. Heard that one when I was a kid and, for some reason, never forgot it.

  163. Under Radar

    Glad you say that about David Mayo. Did NOTS in 79, with him CSing at Flag. Never had I seen so much enthusiasm and freedom in Scientology, neither before nor after.

  164. Brian,
    Like a James Bond movie where the Arch Villan gets
    poetic justice.
    Unfortunately they do exisit and D.M. has all the traits,markers, habits,
    the full monty, whole enchilada. I hope to direct or co direct the David Miscavige Movie.Sadly it will all be the truth, not anything embellished or
    untrue. Church money spent for Limos to go beat up staff,finance police, the Mission Holders Conference San Fransisco 1982. This will be “The Exorcist” in reverse where the Church demonises its followers.

  165. And the world will CHEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  166. Forgot the OSCAR winning scene of Debbie Cook thrown in the “Hole”

  167. Path of Buddha

    “You would certainly need to be able to be aware of people and their conditions to know how much confidence you could place in them.”

    I consider myself so lucky because I could see right through Miscavige
    at the first meeting. As mentioned before on this blog, I thank the Jesuits, the Society of Jesus, for this great talent.

    Much loving-kindness to you Oracle!

    George M. White

  168. And yet, they stay. While supposedly gaining increasing levels of awareness. Fairly boggles the mind, doesn’t it?

  169. Gern Gaschoen

    The virus that killed the Church of Scientology, Inc.? In my opinion, that virus is this, plain and simple: the hidden data line.

    As in, a hidden line to LRH, a hidden line to “Int Management”, hidden lines to “special LRH Advices”, hidden lines between Org units, hidden lines to the secret Orgs (CST/ASI/Trementino) and so on. Staff-enforced hidden data lines, being run at all echelons of the Scientology organizational strata (and blatantly not standard, LRH-policy) .. such things as Int “Clearances” required before you get to know ‘the true terminals managing Scientology’ after having climbed from a mission, through Class IV, AO, CMO, Flag, and so on? Oh, beyond RTC: there is CST, another yet-super-secret hidden mystery sandwich that has, on the basis of the stats it presents to the public, absolutely NOTHING to do with actual, real, application of the Scientology Religion to improving conditions in life.

    Hidden Data is what kills all organizations, not just the Church of Scientology, but in our particularly onerous case it is even magnificently distressing for Scientologists because there is much in the body of the materials of the religion itself which demands that, in order to bring lightness and happiness to Life, one seeks the Truth in Scientology with real data, real observations, and real statistics based on real actions.

    Where instead dark mystery, inactivity and disorder prevails.

    Which is why I think it can only be said that no staff member should be content in the Church these days, unless they have access to ALL INTERNATIONAL SCIENTOLOGY STATISTICS. If they do not have access to this resource, then they are working for squirrels.

  170. TY BFT and Tara, etc.

    Flag Order 3183 – The High Crime FO. It created what we have come to know as the EPF (Estates Project Force). It is a MUST read to understand how by alter-ising the auditing requirement, the Sea Org became filled with low-toned people who could follow orders but not independently evaluate a situation and apply real Scientology to it (with ARC, of course) to resolve it. The original Sea Org was comprised of Clears and OTs who were AUDiTORS…the top guys who were there to assist Ron. That changed after 1968 and this FO was designed to remedy the problem.

    And also, Scientology – when applied at a tone level between 1.1 and 2.0 – will be directed towards succumb, not survive. At least when LRH was here, there was always the hope that ARC and correct evaluation would triumph over misapplication. When DM took over…that was the end of that hope from my point of view. Only it took a while for all the high-toned SO guys to become either enturbulated or surrounded by so much entheta that they got dwarfed by it…or who objected to the mispplaications and were gotten rid of.


  171. Ditto Ronnie. Ain’t that the truth?

  172. Hi Tony,

    TY. No, Chiun was the “master of sinanju” from the old Destroyer series, so brilliantly played by Joel Grey in the movie “Remo Williams, the adventure continutes” or something like that. Yah, I’m an old timer. Re: under the radar, a little bit, I guess. I dig the fabian aspect of it. But I’m preparing my entry into the Indie 500. Though…I may still go with Chiun. I’ve been out since 2006.


  173. + 1000. Awesome quote, and so relevant, Emilie.

  174. Falsehood! 100% agree. Can’t wait to read more!

  175. And so many of the real good guys will live happily ever after.

  176. I came to the same conclusion but I would those that weren’t cowering or feeling like they were out ethics were probably dramatizing the cold chrome mentality that has pervaded the church.

    Great addition below, Steve. I see various flows of help becoming betrayal. No wonder the church is dead.

  177. Emilie,
    Hmmm, that DOES have a familiar ring to it…lemme see…I wonder…


  178. Freedom Fighter

    Someone else you might want to look into for publishing is They offer free print and eBook publishing, also offer a free ISBN and will publish out to Amazon, Barnes and Nobel, the iBookstore, etc. I haven’t used them, but from a feature standpoint, they are the best I’ve seen.

  179. The tapes Brian mentions below, as well as the material on the Chart of Attitudes, the column with FAITH at the top and DISTRUST on the bottom, lectures related to this Chart and that column, the material on Rising Scale Processing using this Chart, these and more will clarify what it means that a being IS faith as opposed to “faith in” and how faith and trust relate.

  180. Ask yourself this question:

    If stage one, “L. Ron Hubbard left the organization to live on the Apollo in 1966” had never occurred, would what happened have happened?

    Would Dave have taken power like he did if LRH never went out to sea on the Apollo?

  181. Look in 8-8008, under CHART OF ATTITUDES, there’s a section there on Faith-Distrust.

  182. The giddy diaper days are over. It’s YOUR Scientology too, you know!

  183. Gern,
    Ahh yes, the “hidden communication”, the “invisible influences”, germs, thetans, “something in the black nothing”, YIKES!!!

    There are all sorts of processes to relieve that for you.

  184. Those are good facts. The isolated management approach that LRH employed definitely had a big flaw if the Messengers weren’t truly prepared to deal with that much power or limited from gaining that much power. The end result was corruption.

  185. LBS, assuming we are talking about the same time period (2-3 months, mid-1971), and you FLEW through 2 hours blinkless TR0, you deserve to be honored with some sort of special OT award at the next DM event. Even at this late date. Personally presented to you by DM himself.

    All kidding aside, getting through that 2 hours without blinking was one hell of an achievement on your part.

    I do agree with your LRH quotes too. However, when I think back to that period, all I remember is:
    – a large room packed with students doing TR0 all day long
    – daily contagious group line charges and hysterical breakouts of glee
    – just about everyone doped off & drooling at times
    – alarm clocks next to each student being reset by watchful SO staff every time someone blinked
    – no one passing that I can recall

    I believe it is true that a thetan can do anything forever, unless he starts to stop it (LRH paraphrase). One thing for sure, there was a whole lot of stopping going on in that room!

  186. I hadn’t heard about Mayo getting bought off. I guess it’s SOP going clear back to ancient times like in the movie Braveheart where they offer estates in England to the Scottish Nobles to walk away from the battle. In fact, it’s probably the most powerful tool the SP has. When things look unfavorable just crack out the checkbook. Definitely a flaw in mankind that can be exploited.

  187. Tone 40 done right is absolutely amazing. I can probably count on two hands the number of people I’ve run into over a span of many years who could really communicate at a tone 40 level. David Aldrich was one example. Yvonne Gillham Jensch was another. If either of them indicated something to you, or instructed you to do something, it was always 100% right and you KNEW it was right. The effect on a being is absolutely amazing. There is no force at all. You instantly F/N.

    Hate to say it, but I’m not even really sure that beings can be trained to communicate at that level. Perhaps it’s one of those things that either you have it or you don’t. Hope I’m wrong about that, but my jury is still out.

  188. Ah,yes, blinkless TR0. I actually did a two-hour blinkless confront when I was on the Comm course. It was hell. But I passed and lived to tell the tale ;). From what I remember the reason was that in TRs Remodernized, Ron said that a blink was a flunk, so naturally everyone took it to extremes and started flunking every single blink.

    It seems as though some people love the idea of torture and ordeals. “TRs the Hard Way” became “FLUNK. You blinked!” an hour and a half into a confront. The RPF becomes a gulag. The SO becomes the Nazi SS. The GO becomes Nixon’s dirty tricks unit. “Pink Legs” in Simon Bolivar (actually all of Simon Bolivar PL) is taken literally. I actually had a guy physically assault me because he thought I needed ethics handling and he used the 6′ high board fence as his reference!

    Frankly what is wrong with Scientology is rote people who cannot evaluate and take everything literally and without thinking about it and with no sense of humor. Basically, the “not-quite-bright” referenced in KSW. Scientology is FUN, people! It is not supposed to be the Long March! It is not supposed to be holding your hand to the flame to show how cussing tough you are! A real OT would just blow out the cussing candle!

    Reminds me of a joke:

    Three Scientologists are in a diner, a Comm Course student, a Class IV, and an Class XIII OT. The Comm Course student says: “I bet I can get the waitress to come over here with intention.” The student then stares at the back of the waitress, face screwing up in knots, eyebrows furled. Nothing. The Class IV says “Let me try”. Calmly the IV sits there, perfect TR0, full attention on the waitress… yet, nothing. Waitress still at the counter with back turned. Then it was the Class XIII’s turn. He says: “Hi, waitress? Can you come over please?” And of course, the waitress says “of course!” and comes on over.

  189. HI E.J.,
    From what I got from Steve’s idea on doing A-E is that it is a guidline on the steps needed to be taken to fully recover from being part of the suppressive cult. Some were more involved than others in taking on the SP valence of dm and to the degree that you have acted out being an SP, those A-E steps are the way to handle it.
    If you were not involved in doing much suppressive stuff while inside then you would have very little to do. It is just a guidline and not an indication that one and all are suppressive. It is do as much or as little as needed.
    That is my take on it anyways.

  190. Thanks Chiun,
    I loved that movie. I have seen it a couple of times. It is hillarious.
    It would be great if you came out in your own name. You can make a difference. What would Chiun do?? 🙂

  191. Path of Buddha

    Thanks for the references. Can you please briefly explain in your own words what this means?

    May all beings that are faith be well and happy!

    George M. White

  192. Gern Gaschoen

    Yes, like .. being part of a real org. I’d like that.

  193. LAUGHTER!

  194. Watchful Navigator

    So true.

  195. LOL- Very funny

  196. LRH would have been arrested and the upper levels wouldn’t have been developed. The Church would probably have been destroyed with legal force and without Davey who was just a toddler at that time.

  197. Create one.

  198. And my take on it is that LRH has written A-E as specific steps not open to interpretation to do wishy washy or not, at will, but to handle a true 2,5 percenter and protect a 3D (not a 4D) from the harm such a unhandled person will cause. I see it as a very specific and extended version of the doubt and liability formula.

  199. Thanks, I’ll check it out. Any references on blind trust?

  200. “The mystic for millenia has been talking about faith. He never built a bridge to it. He made a fundamental error in converting faith into have faith. When he said have faith he invited understanding, then confusion of understanding, because one does not understand faith. One is faith. The source, content of and contact with faith is you. The result of this mystic error – and it is a very gross error – was to place individuals so far down the tone scale that “love” and propitiation became bywords and hocus pocus the order of the day. Here is a 1.1 religion. It is afraid to understand because it has to have faith, but it is not faith because faith is not understanding. Hence the general confusion at 1.1. A by-product of this is the fact that individuals who thus have faith are running too slow. You get esp, hypnotism, mixed-up facsimiles with others, martyrdom, physical illness and all manner of unwanted things at this slow speed. It is too close to the static of death at 0.0, and its people are awfully dead, ineffective and irrational.

    People who are trying to have faith are not faith. Thus they fear (1.1) and propitiate (1.1) and are generally confused. One will not buy unreason at 20.0. They began by knowing faith and then became confused by having faith explained.

    Because of spectacular successes (rare as rarity), the mystic continued to strive for something he already had because he had no way to get back to where he was. The enormously successful points of being faith in the sea of unsuccessful having faith kept the mystic striving. It is possible now to achieve faith, or regain what one has lost.

    I am, faith, I know are at 20.0 on up. At 20.0 on the gradient scale they are at optimum unity with MEST (the physical universe) but as they rise from 20.0 they become less and less effective on MEST until top static is reached at 40.0. […]”
    L. Ron Hubbard, Advanced Procedures and Axioms, An Analysis of Self-Determinism (excerpt)

  201. George, I posted a LRH quote from APA here.

    May all beings elevate and prosper.

  202. Very accurate observations, Grasshopper (as usual). Especially the point about “not quite bright” – SO true!

    However, re “blinkless” TR0, that was not something Ron said that someone else took to extremes. It came straight from a mid-1971 LRH ED entitled “The World Begins With TR0”.

    Congratulations though on being one of two (along with Calvin) who made it through! So you guys (gals?) can share that special award at the next “event”!

  203. It is an ancient story. An archetypal story, whose predictable, ever entertaining, cliched story line of the battle between good and evil, is playing out.

    I fully realize now that it was a dark hearted greedy villian who created that despicable environment in the 80’s. Miscavige took advantage of an ailing old man, decimated theta lines and used the organization to feed narcissism.

    This was not what Ron wanted.

    You Independents are the good guys. Marty seems to be a main key.

    Rally behind him and give him the freedon to do this job.

  204. DM has run out every existing exec. He has this SP characteristic : running out good staffs.
    He is the major bug, the virus, the infection. To remove him would be a desinfection action.
    It all started when he took control of the church through outright lies.
    When I first listened to RJ 38 The Proof in new year 83/84, my first feeling was that it was not LRH speaking, that it was a forgery.
    Anybody having any idea or data regarding this?
    If “the Proof” is a forgery, it will become a proof that DM is a crook.

  205. Ah…Tony…did that bring back memories. I love that movie, too. Thank you, thank you. Re: own name. I take liberty to quote Shakespeare, “What’s in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” I am me…as all who have drunk of the true wisdom of Scientology know. I promise you in due time, I shall identify myself to any who really want to know. In the meantime, I am…


  206. Very nicely stated, Marty

  207. Sure George. That’s a postulate 🙂

  208. Path of Buddha

    Thanks. You got the exact answer.
    May all mystics be well and happy!
    George M. White

  209. EJ,
    What Steve said in an earlier post is copied below. IMHO Since ethics is something that would be applied by the individual to his or her own situation this is not something that is in any way related to a group or group think. It would simply be applied per one’s own self determined viewpoint as needed and or wanted.
    My personal viewpoint is that I choose to hold the RCS accountable for failing to keep Scientology Working. So I will act as the IJC for that which I have KRC for with respect to my involvement in and with the suppressive organization. It fills the void of “What should I do?

    ” To recap:

    (0) Wake up and “come to your senses” as regards your membership in a suppressive group.

    (A) Stop committing the present time overts and ceasing all suppression so you can get a case gain. This is done by withdrawing your personal support from the suppressive group and ceasing to condone its criminality and abuses.

    (B) A public announcement is required explaining your previous support of the group and stating the influences or motivations which caused you to support the group before you came to your senses. That has to get published broadly particularly to former associates. LRH says this letter should be calculated to expose any conspiracy and that means blowing the whistle on David Miscavige — the man behind the conspiracy. You can do that here on Marty’s blog or on or both, like Dave just did. Plus Dave went further and created his own blog.

    (B1) Get in the factor of exchange where it is out. In this case, you may need to pursue a refund (to yourself) of ill-gotten gains from the Church or IAS (etc.) since they are the squirrel group in question and obtained the money by fraudulent means.

    (B2) Do an amends project to make up any damage you personally caused to friends or family or to the human race as a whole through your personal support of David Miscavige and his fascist regime. Don’t bother with the “IJC” (which is actually David Miscavige) since he’s the SP. This is not self-abnegation, this is you getting square with the world and winning back the trust of mankind. And if you say “Well, I’m just nobody” my response is not doing this step is why you are nobody.

    (C) Retrain from the bottom up. Since you were not actually part of the conspiracy, but just a victim to it, common sense dictates you need to start applying the tech you know to improve conditions around you (which also is part of your amends). But eventually I think you would want to review, retread or retrain especially on the basics of Scientology because they are going to have a whole new meaning to you now. I think you may find that you now embody the Code of Honor, for example.

    (D) Make your own notes on these matters and keep them for yourself. You are wearing the hat of IJC for yourself since the Church, by electing to follow and empower a suppressive person, has abdicated all responsibility and all formerly worn hats.

    (E) Let the world know when you are done and celebrate the fact. These are just the broad strokes, there is more to it then this. And you can read it for yourself in the Scientology Ethics book, page 316.

    These steps laid out by LRH are the correct actions. It isn’t just a matter of doing a mere “Doubt formula.” We are dealing with a suppressive entity of the first order. You have to do something about it and you will FULLY RECOVER by doing so.”

  210. The ones I’ve given. The tape lectures that deal with the Chart of Attitudes, Rising Scale and so on, amplify the Chart itself. The column is Faith- Distrust. Pretty much covers the entire scale.

    I quick search through my Tech Vols got me these. Good luck on your study, it’s fascinating subject.

    For me personally, I recall a point, in the PDCs I think, where he was discussing the loss of trust in oneself, and the downward spiral that ensues from there. Again, the materials I’ve suggested go into that and the entire topic – Faith/Distrust etc.

  211. On “blind trust”, here’s a snip from the 8-8008 material I suggested you study: The lowest level of this scale is not distrust but complete faith-in, which is the condition held by MEST which is supine to any sculptor.

  212. That was a big year for me too. Over the top application of out ethics displayed by the Flag MAAs. The cognitions were huge when I knew I was done with the RCS.

  213. Being faith. This guy has it naturally.

    Miscavige can only dream of having such an audience.

  214. As I suspected. At 12:45 on the video. The Flag Rep states “We can’t trust the OTVll’s!

  215. Great references, great reading! Thanks!

  216. Good quote, Jim.
    It’s obvious why DM is expecting full obedience.
    He is building his own wax cabinet full of mindless, micro-chiped (implanted), circuit manequines. He is only interested in quantities, GE, the somatic mind, and will never find the answer to his nightmares.

  217. Sorry, 12:45 to 13:25.

  218. Funny! Now A-E is to be interpreted as a voluntary 1D ethics action and not justice, not for the group and not applied to SP’s. And the individual should act as IJC to himself because the post is void. When things get so desperate, please do the usual. There’s no void; the conditions are always there, as a matter of fact, there’s no way around them.

  219. Thanks SKM, that’s the stuff 🙂

  220. Ok. Arrested by who and why? I know whats been written on the Internet but I wanted to get you reality on it.

    Did LRH’s ethics go out or was it just an action by and SP or SP’s to put a stop to his helping people?

    It has been stated on the Internet that he did go out to sea for some other reason other than to do upper level research.

    This is something that LRH never touched on. The explanation for going out to sea was only to do the upper levels.

    You stated: “LRH would have been arrested and the upper levels wouldn’t have been developed”

    The arrest thing aside, couldn’t LRH have researched the upper levels on land just like all the other levels?

    Did he really need to be floating out on the ocean to do the upper levels?

  221. Hey Tony!
    Yes I’m still here 😉

  222. Freedom Fighter

    Don’t forget to diversify. My analysis points to scotch being on the verge of a breakout run as well…

  223. “It is not supposed to be holding your hand to the flame to show how cussing tough you are! A real OT would just blow out the cussing candle!:

    Thanks Grasshopper! Had a real nice blowdown on that one. :))

  224. Too funny! 🙂

  225. “It is not supposed to be holding your hand to the flame to show how cussing tough you are! A real OT would just blow out the cussing candle!”
    Thank you, Grasshopper! That gave me a really nice blowdown. :))

  226. Thanks. Good to know my knowingness returns, Jim. 🙂


  227. That’s fine. I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything. Just giving you my opinion.

  228. I personally don’t take every word uttered by LRH as some sort of holy scripture. If the RCS has become an SP group and someone adhered to it then they would do A-E. Some really didn’t join in much so they might not really need to do much. It is just thinking with data.
    If you don’t like what Steve says then obviously you or anyone else don’t have to apply it. I personally don’t care who says what. If it makes sense to me then I may use it, if it doesn’t then no.

  229. I was starting to wonder…

  230. Joe Pendleton

    One of the main components that enables the fascist Miscavige regime to continue is the mean-ness, the lack of compassion and caring from one Scientologist to another; the component that allows or encourages even Scientologists to “throw under the bus” OTHER Scientologists VERY quickly when they “get in bad” with the group or the powers that be.

    But folks …… this attitude (which we see in all fascist and terrorized societies wherein the main population allows others to be slaughtered and imprisoned to “protect themselves”) did not, I repeat, did NOT start in Scientology with Miscavige. This is a CULTURE in this third dynamic and to really understand it, you need to GO EARLIER.

    Miscavige was in his early teens in the 70s during the infamous List 1 Rock Slam purge. Very, VERY dedicated staff and Sea Org members were either kicked off staff or sent to the prison camp (for “rehabilitation”) because of a meter reaction on random meter checks because it was thought that they had evil purposes/intentions against Ron and/or Mary Sue (when it was Ron and Mary Sue who spearheaded federal crimes, in the very well documented Operation Snow White/Freakout, etc). THERE was a culture of paranoia (extreme) and my point here is that STAFF MEMBERS AGREED TO ALL THIS LIKE LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER and simply allowed their fellow staff to be sent away WITHOUT A PEEP.

    And you wonder why Miscavige was able to succeed so easily with no opposition? An ALREADY set in culture of authoritarianism, militarism, punishment, injustice.

    And yes, you can find all the justifications that established this culture (and grew it inch by inch in the late 60s and 70s) in specific policicies of the early to mid 60s. BUT… you need to be willing and wanting to GO EALIER. Every fasicst culture has its roots. LOOK!!

  231. EJ, I suggest you review those steps. It’s not only for suppressive persons, it’s also for suppressive groups. LRH said so not me. What do you think that means? If you were ever a member of the Church of Scientology and you supported DM’s regime directly or indirectly, even for a while — guess what? You were a member of a suppressive group that was actually blocking mankind’s route up the Bridge. It doesn’t make you a suppressive person. It makes you an ex-member of a suppressive group. If you don’t want to handle the residual toxicity from a membership in a suppressive group, that is your decision not mine. The Doubt formula is great, but DM-ology was the most suppressive group in the history of Scientology and a blight on mankind that has resulted in thousands of deaths, divorces, aborted children, murders, etc. A Doubt formula isn’t actually the correct tech IMO and the evidence is all over the place that these steps create miracles. You have to differentiate no one is saying you were a suppressive person — get off that. It’s a wrong indication and misapplication of Ethics. That originates from DM. The point is, the group itself IS a suppressive, corrupt, suppressive, splinter group operating on a the purpose of enriching David Miscavige’s holdings. If you will review the A to E steps, you will see LRH says they are for a suppressive person or group should they ever come to their senses. This is not about making anyone wrong or handing out wrong indications. It is about caring enough to help people recover FULLY and to imbue their lives with meaning.

    I’m not interpreting the A to E steps. There are people who refuse to take responsibility for their own past participation in supporting DM. If you want to duck responsibilities, that is your business. The senior triangle of Scientology — Knowledge-Responsibility-Control — is the way out of anything.

    Yes, I have an idea about this. In 1972 L. Ron Hubbard was captured and murdered while in NYC. The body that returned to the Apollo was in fact a CIA planted operative. This operative was a woman, dressed as a man, dressed as LRH.

    From there…well, you can extrapolate the rest but it ended up in that RJ being the voice of this woman/man as the entire op culiminated in DM being COB. Now, COB is actually POB, that’s Pope on a Box (an applebox). This apple, a full apple, is taken from here to fore, there and around, so that POB will appear as an apparitional accident, when he is actually 10,000 miles away (see OSA movie depicting this).

    RD, waxing a li’l more to the point. Why don’t you start with your initials and study the R&D and take it up the line from there and all this goofy sort of thing will lose significance.

  233. This two incidents (LRH went to sea and DM took power over the management) have nothing to do with each other.
    Wrong time, wrong sequence.

  234. No one is interpreting the steps LRH laid out for suppressive groups to follow except for you. You are interpreting it to have nothing to do with you.

  235. SPs always worked to stop LRHs intent to free the people. They still do. Look at Miscavige.

    LRH won. We can be free.

  236. I did quite a few hours of blinkless back in the 1970s. I did not blink that I recall, but my eyes watered a lot and my nose ran away with the spoon.

    For some reason, the process made my nose fill up and run. My twin was very impressed, she said she would have quit long since. I never did flatten that, and have suffered with some chronic nasal congestion ever since….. hmmmmm.

    I feel it was an outpoint that at the time and place where I was doing TRs, we started with TR-0, not with OT-TR0. I “caught up” on my OT-TR0 later and had a good major stable win on it. I feel that for me, OT-TR0 would have been the correct gradient to start with.

    I suspect the OT-TR0 had been taken off the checksheet precisely because of some literal minded “not quite bright” who thought to himself, “It’s called OT-TR0, therefore it should only be done by OTs and shouldn’t be on these checksheets for the HAS and HQS courses….”

    Anyone familiar with any of the history of OT-TR0 being on these checksheets, off of them, then back on them?

  237. Sorry Sarah, if you were ever a member of the Church of Scientology then you were a member of a suppressive group. That is not “an indication.” You either supported DM and his crap or you didn’t. I’m not saying either way because I don’t know a thing about you.

    Do you think every person in a suppressive group is an SP? Are you nuts? The Nazis were a suppressive group. Were they all SPs? No. Some were just German citizens that got drafted into war. They had no choice.

    You are actually still buying into the DM trap of not knowing the way out because he cleverly equated being a member of a suppressive group with being an SP. I’m saying differentiate. It’s not A = A = A.

    No one is saying you were an SP. Don’t be stupid.

    If you were a member of the Church of Scientology, you were a member of a suppressive group. Did you let your guard down? Yes. Did that create damage? For most people, hell yes. Well, here is a road map out. Use it if you want.

    My suggestion: read LRH tech before you crap on it.

  238. Tim, it is quite plausible LRH would have been persecuted on land, whether guilty of anything or not. History is replete with maverick pioneers who challenged the entrenched orthodoxy and were resisted, persecuted, paralyzed with lawsuits, bankrupted, imprisoned, books burned, labs smashed — suppressed, to varying degrees of success: Galileo, Tesla, Royal Rife, Wilhelm Reich, Lister, Hoxsey, Koch, Burzynski, countless others. All, as Hubbard, have been called charlatans or quacks; some were later officially vindicated, some still on the razor edge of esoterica. Even viewed exclusively as a pragmatic CYA strategy, it was brilliant to go, literally, off-shore. The orthodoxy really does not like it when someone comes along with a competing idea. Pharmaceutical cartels have been trying to make nutritional supplements illegal for decades. All this is self-evident. Pioneers get fought, tooth and nail. To my knowledge, he never did get arrested, or even served. Quite an accomplishment, under the circumstances.

  239. Psst, Sam… don’t help him itsa!

  240. To RD,
    Way back when
    late70’s and early 80’sFlag was seeking anyone who sounded exactly like LRH. For real,dont have any more data than this. Scince I did not sound like LRH in speech knew anyone like that I passed on it.
    Figured this had something to do w ith applying the tech .

  241. Thanks for reposting this Oracle. These are some incredible videos, especially for someone who ever did Solo Nots.

  242. I think this quote is complicated and a bit judgemental. It’s so much simpler than that. And could be explained without the 1.1 towards Christianity and Mystics as a whole.

    Faith is simply the intuitive perception of a potential yet realized.
    And if ones spiritual practice is accurate in bringing one to directly perceiving the true nature of a thing, then the faith was justified.

    Here is where I feel Ron cuts off the heads of other practices and paths to assume a higher stature.

  243. I was there in 1981 as CL 4 staff doing the OEC/FEBC, a terrifying experience, the Sups & Execs treated us like lower class citizens. When I finally got out of there I swore I would never go to FSO for anything and I didn’t. Maybe public were treated better.

  244. And when you hear year after year that other paths and practices are not as “evolved” as Ron’s path Scientologists become arrogant and elitist and alienate themselves from society as a whole. And wonder why society doesn’t just accept Scientology.
    This is a big one. Dump the elitism. Things will be much easier for you.

  245. Beautifully succinct, Steve! 🙂


  246. Jim,
    you could even combine all your tech vols PDFs into one big file with a software like this one: (there are free tools like this one, too)
    Once your PDFs are combined into one you can performe a search trough all the vols without the need to open several PDFs, this is even faster.

    If you need help with this, let me know.

  247. Good point Joe.
    It’s kind of like a dysfunctional family. Bad enough till baby bro dave got old enough to hurt people and get away with it.

  248. A correctly done Doubt formula helped me go off lines completley, Steve.
    I quit with the suppresive “Management”.
    However your advices to go trough the A to E steps indicates fully.

    I remeber you wrote some more things about this topic. Was it on your own blog or was it somewere here on Marty’s?
    Do you remember?
    Could you please provide a link?


  249. Tango, can’t you just see the scene!

  250. Let me say, I think your observations are quite valid. But, I wonder, to what conclusion(s) do they lead you?

    I think many of the reasons for the emergence of this culture have been well covered in the replies to this blog post. What do you think?

  251. Li'll bit of stuff

    There you go Jim……All comes down to good ol…
    (No thing, zilch, nadda, zip, n-o-t-h-i-n-g added!)

    Of course, we just CAN’T do that, can we? NO, we
    fucks are so lame that we need a game of the first
    order of magnitude. We need persistence (of the
    altering consideration) here, DON’T we??

    Of course DM knows this, implicitly …persistence!
    He said so, didn’t he.. “we are the most dauntless,
    defiant group the world has ever seen!” or some
    such Kool-Aid-dodgery (we persist…We’re MEST!!)

    Since we’re MEST, we’re therefore NOT committing
    any crime, are we then? (like going behind peoples’
    backs and actually “duplicating” what’s going on!
    Oh no! Now THAT….would be a crime!! of the first
    order!!) Like those F%^@(&G useless, C—k S%$@&
    S.P Independent Squirrels of the F@#^*@G worst
    kind who F*$^#ING well completely F(^%#^%D up my
    F(*%^$YG NEW masterplan of IOO X STRAIGHT
    DOWN & VERTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!! F&*%#$ them ALL!!

    CRIME AGAINST ME..(ahem!) MEST!!!
    GOT THAT???

    COB (on the brink!)

  252. Ronnie Bell

    I can personally attest to Yvonne’s Tone-40 ability. On more than one flow, too. What an awesome, beautiful being she was. I hope she shows up soon. I miss her.

  253. It was on mine in 1973.

  254. Ronnie Bell

    When I finally got out of there I swore I would never go to FSO for anything and I didn’t. Maybe public were treated better.

    Nope. The service at FSO was some of the worst I ever experienced as a public. After my last disastrous trip there in 2001, I made up my mind to never go back. I paid good money to be mistreated on more than one occasion in that org.

  255. Publius, ‘The World Begins with TRO’ was my entry into Scientology proper, and started me in life, so to speak. Blinkless TRO was part of the very first course I did, The Comm Course, £5, in early ’71. It was fantastic, I loved every second of it. ‘Flunk, you blinked!’ was such fun!

    This subject has been discussed before, here on Marty’s blog, and there are some great guys better trained and more knowledgeable on Tech matters than myself. Maybe someone has the original, uncorrected HCOB’s issued for this course, otherwise we only have the Tech Volumes to draw on.

    Under Glen Walker, our brilliant supervisor, the course room was packed, and contributed to a boom for London Org (there was no Fdn Org then). For a little while that Spring and Summer, hundreds of public did the course, many of whom joined staff, as I did, or went on to do the HSDC, or both. The Academy was heaving, day and night. The atmosphere was electric.

    We didn’t call them hard TR’s, and a year or so later, when the blinking was allowed, I thought of that as ‘quickie’ and a degrade. The whole point of blinkless TRO was explained in the course materials which consisted of only a few HCOB’s, including Training Drills Modernized (probably HCOB 5Jan71) and (probably) HCOB 2Jun71 Iss I Study Ser 2, CONFRONTING, where Ron explains:
    “Eye blinks, swallows, twitches, aches, pains, are all systems of interrupting confronting and are the symptoms of discomfort. There are many of these. If they are present then one is not just being there and perceiving.”

    After flattening TRO, the remaining TR’s were a doddle. Then followed the Dn Drug R/D and then the HQS Course (which included Book and Bottle). So within a few months of walking in off the street, raw, I went exterior with visio (pow!), and best of all, gained certainty of self. All the basic theory of Theta, Present Time, ARC, Time Track, Past Lives, Dynamics, and so on, fell into place.

    Interestingly, all that occurred without my having any knowledge of Scn Ethics – that came soon after, and was a personal catastrophe for me and the org: vindictive Joburgs, idiot ethics assignments, rampant paranoia about SP’s, out-tech galore to ‘handle,’ executive C/Sing, madhouse musical-chairing, and so on. Jane Kember and her mad dogs moved in on Ldn Org and turned it into shit (‘scuse my language). My heart broke for our ED, Pam Hurwitz: the beautiful creation she’d made was ripped from her hands by guess what?: the misapplication of ethics.

    Nevertheless, for me, the world really did begin with blinkless TRO, and it has been shaken many times since but never stirred!

    Richard Kaminski

  256. Hi SKM, I’ve been working to fully understand how the A to E steps might apply to us for about two years because I noticed we were following the steps anyway. I wrote an article on Scientology-cult but took it down after a few weeks because I didn’t feel it was ready.

    Common sense and experience show that a suppressive group normally consists of a mix of people — genuine SPs and normal people. For example, the Nazis included most of the male population of Germany. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize they weren’t all SPs.

    I joined the SO when LRH was still alive. It was undermined slowly over time and became fully suppressive in the end.

    Many groups have SPs in them since they compose 2.5% of the population. Having SPs in a group does not make a group suppressive. What makes a group suppressive is when it starts to follow suppressive policies. It’s the group’s actions that make it suppressive, not who is in it.

    The CoS is suppressive because it follows DM’s suppressive policies — ripping people off, destroying lives, unmocking auditors, invalidating Clears and OTs, etc. Most of the people doing the dirty work are not SPs. They are just dupes. But they are also members of a suppressive group.

    It’s DM who says anyone not in “good standing” with him is an SPs. Most of us were however members of the Church for a time. A member of a suppressive group does NOT equal a suppressive person. But the steps work for all to enable closure, enormous wins, great insight.

  257. Thank you Sam. The reason I’m bringing this up on Marty’s blog is to see how best to defuse the considerable BPC people have on the wrong indication of being told they are an SP. No one here is an SP.

  258. Li'll bit of stuff

    Valkov,Publius,Grasshopper & Karen B, enjoyed all this reminiscing, alongwith you! To be sure, in retrospect, a hellava lot of fun was had by all. In my case, just to be clear on how it happened;

    Day one: I started as the ONLY new student in the ( day } academy (Durban, South Africa) apart from Paul Davis, on his Dn interneship. He was asked to be my twin, by the Sup.,
    Alice Mein, and the next thing I remember was being sat on
    a chair in front of a totally “unblinking” Paul. Of course, I got
    the usual watery eyes, and blinking and “the Indian market”
    blabber start up in my head, But that was before tea break!

    Wow! After tea —–that was it! I just simply got it!
    Just simply was able to BE there…..and confront !

    I have to thank Paul Davis for the “beingness” he had, which
    demonstrated conclusively to me, what being a good coach
    was all about. Zero Q& A and just “being there” and coaching
    with reality. the hallmark of just duplicating & applying LRH’s
    Standard Tech. THAT made it easy for me, a new green
    student, to immediately grasp the essence of Scientology.

    Nothing dramatic or eetie – thweetie like OT-TRO (shame!)
    or students (who were allowed to Q & A) present, to water
    down tough, standard coaching, I just simply didn’t know
    there was any OTHER way to actually DO TR-O, to be
    perfectly honest, ……so there you have it, guys.

    My humble 2c. worth, great comm’ ing with you.

    Calin B. Duffield

  259. Joe Pendleton

    You’re right Tony. The thing is you find these clever thugs like Miscavige in almost every society and many families as well. But a Miscavige ((or a Stalin or Hitler) doesn’t rise to the top of a society unless that is already in many respects a sick and flawed culture that goes into agreement and allows the takeover

  260. Emilie, yup, sounds just like a midget cretin leader…

  261. Wasn’t Paul eventually in the SO, and in one of the tech films? If so, he was also the BC Practical sup for a while at ASHO F – and he was awesome!

  262. Tony DePhillips

    I don’t know all the history that well Joe.
    But I heard of the List one R/S thing and if that was set up by LRH, I think that is pretty wacked out. I liked the post up above a bit by Chiun. I think if Sea Org members were required to be up the Bridge a bit before being allowed in, that would have helped. I think the list one R/S ( a rock slam is a meter action on an e-meter ) ( for people who aren’t Scientologists) thing is like a weird witch hunt.

  263. Tony DePhillips

    Despite any of this, I think the tech or at least a large part of it gets very good results. As I and many others have said, Absolutes are unobtainable. LRH wasn’t perfect but he had a lot of great qualities too.

  264. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yes, yes,YES! Espiritu. THAT was the missing link.
    Marty likes games too, ho ho ho!

  265. I was a kid a the time – I finished my comm course when I was 12. OT TRO came in around then, and it was a great undercut – although a number of folks just went to sleep ;).

    OT TRO done right is essentially meditation “done right.” To be fully there, fully aware, with eyes closed, just being there and nothing else is quite a trick. It is interesting in that you are not alone – you are being there confronting the other person, and it is a trick sometimes to just do it and not wander off into the “monkey mind” as the Buddhists so eloquently call it.

    You know, when blinkless was lifted, everyone swung the other way for a while – blinking a lot, scratching, slouching, all that. Sort of like when the “Stat Push” PL was released everyone stopped considering stats at all!

  266. Amazing story. Incredible wins – thanks so much for sharing!

  267. Thanks. There is a certain personality type that just has to prove how tough they are by doing moronic, stupid things, and they expect A. to be applauded for it, and B. expect you to do the same to prove how tough you are. Like those idiots who try to cross over a railroad track last before the train hits them, or who go into honky tonks and spit on the biggest guy there. Mr. David Miscavige is definitely in this camp. Real toughness is doing the right thing with a kind, friendly attitude, and with high ARC -getting things done without the drama.

  268. Great comming with you too, Calvin. Thanks for sharing your experience too. Someday someone should be a book put together that includes all these wins and stories. Especially from those early days, before they’re forgotten.

  269. Hmmm, well then I am mistaken. Happens. That being the case, I would like to know what other disaster happened just before that which prompted the “revision”.

  270. Well I find the author has my interest and I look forward to the book!

  271. Thanks, this sounds like something I could use. I’ve got tons of stuff and it would be much easier to search one combined data base. If I have any questions, I’ll ask you. Cheers SKM 🙂

  272. There are some wonderful exercises in Handbook for Preclears that I recommend. It’s under the Twelfth Act, you’ll see it there as part of that, under FAITH. If you don’t have the book, write to me and I’ll get you a copy.

  273. PersonalJudas

    I say it was the tea, Calvin. Everything goes better with a good cup of tea. In 1942, Churchill claimed that tea was more important to his soldiers than ammunition.
    But, seriously I had a very similar experience to you. My impression is that Grasshopper has siezed the heart of it, above.

    literalness is where it all breaks down. Duplication comes BEFORE understanding. Unfortunately there are those that never seem to get past step one. Without understanding there cannot be any judgement.

    The constant, watering tearing of someone who is confronting with their eyes is a far cry from the occasional autonomic blink reflex of the eye to moisten and cleanse itself. The organism looks after itself, it doesn’t ask the being permission to beat it’s heart.

    Who is doing the confronting?

  274. Newcomer: “IMHO Since ethics is something that would be applied by the individual to his or her own situation this is not something that is in any way related to a group or group think.”

  275. Sarah only craps on wrong indications. Example: raw public comes in, signs up for the IAS and thus becomes member of a SP group. Now he has to do A-E?

  276. It seemed to me that after he left in 66′, it was never the same as it was prior to 1966.

    He seemed to me to be hiding himself from the outside world which wasn’t the case prior to 1966.

  277. Li'll bit of stuff

    Truly awesome Gh, and yes, he was eventually in the SO.
    Lost track of what became of him after that, as with many
    who joined and have not been heard of since. His ol’ man,
    Reg, was C/S for some time, and was the coolest dude you
    could hope to meet and you’d never have guessed he was
    a professor (and head of the English Dept.,) at the local
    University of Natal. Of course, his whole family were Scns,
    and I believe, made waves of one kind or another.Paul’s
    sister, Lynn was a cool chick too,surfer and paddle-skier.

    These were ALL great beings, as I remember them, full of ARC, and just simply “got it,” (duplicated.)never added to!

    What a pleasure and honour knowing them.(from ’71 on.)


  278. A-E are for SP groups if they come to their senses and I don’t see that happening as they lost them completely and fully follow suppressive policy. If you want to handle that you should make the current members come to their senses before starting their A-E as a group (by changing DMology back to Scientology).

    An ex member could, if needed, handle residual toxicity by a repair past ethics condition. That you get miracles on ex members if they do A-E it’s because it’s the right steps of their individual RPEC because they did commit suppressive acts (while member of a SP group). And all ethics actions have greater KRC as result.

    That you’ve been trying for 2 years to understand a simple policy gives us at least added time; take it from there and find the other outpoints (one of them being missing data on your site that people now try to find in vain).

  279. Holy cats, did that quoted material ever fly right on over your head Brian. Man, no wonder this seems “elitist”. You don’t get it, the use of the word “faith” here.

  280. Totally agree with you – I’ve often observed that the problems with the Church are also rampant all throughout American corporate society as well. There isn’t much difference between DM and the heads of GM, and so on .. because America is a fascist society, its to be expected.

  281. Marty first of all let me say I love what you’re doing I love what Mike is doing and you both are greatly greatly appreciated . Also , I love hearing the winds and the independence old I absolutely love i
    Could I ask if you could possibly go back to occasionally posting about the massive massive .fraud and human trafficking and then it spreads over to Tony and it gets more public attention and get some possibly Fed attention and then the POB goes down.
    Let’s face it we are for sure talking about a very evil evil empire that tries to destroy people. And I’m not talking just so members I’m talking general public.
    Speaking for myself I’ve just been doing my own thing doing my business living life and they are still trying to destroy my life and I’m sure for sure I’m not the only one this truly is an evil evil empire was some very evil people it’s just not POB but it’s OSA.
    Again Marty not being critical you and Mike are greatly appreciated I look forward to every posting and then get something out of every one of them I just wanted to speak my mind the mess I really appreciate you thanks

  282. Here is a nice article that I found relevant to your comment:

  283. Li'll bit of stuff

    Richard, Hi, and flunk on me for not including you
    earlier. Your experience almost exactly mirrored
    mine in so many aspects, and surely is a great
    testament to Ron having arrived at the now trite
    moniker “standard” tech. Sadly, the word has
    become almost meaningless, “lost” in the attempts
    by so many misguided, but otherwise intelligent
    people, to engorge themselves on Miscavology’s
    “The Basics.” Just another notch in the sword
    of what an S.P. does best, whether a tech or a
    people——destroy them totally!!

    Any how , back to PT—– As Marty said in his
    New Year message; 2012 can only get better,
    and…… sure is!

    And BTW, just love your closing sentence;
    ” Nevertheless, for me, the world really did begin
    with blinkless TRO, and it has been shaken many times since but never stirred! ”

    And another BTW, I can say the same thing for
    my 7th. Dynamic represented by my participation
    on this here blog, belonging to Marty. Unfounded attacks against unfamiliar persons, CAN have the
    undesirable consequence of losing an otherwise
    misguided individual (such as myself)who could be making a real contribution to the “31 Factors”
    of this blog.I believe the trick is, to recognize, or
    duplicate, the person’s theta vs. entheta posts.
    ie; is this guy trying to help, or hinder the aims
    of the group, per se???

    I understand the causes of suspicion, today and
    totally duplicate where it originates ( yes, indeed
    now proven conclusively, ALL roads lead back to
    the one and ONLY cause ……..David Miscavige!)


  284. @Joe Pendleton:
    From my own experience, starting from end seventies, I have to agree with you. The culture of Scn orgs has since then never changed. Indeed, Miscavige is just an exponent of this culture. (Which you will find in many other religious groupes throughout history.) So, to me, Miscavige is not the real WHY. Thinking that, is a big mistake. It is the culture of Scn that makes the rise (and fall hopefully) of Miscavige possible. I have seen other little ‘dictators’ around. We’ll have to define what that culture is. E.g. I remember: people being so afraid of being out-tech that they accepted being ‘punished’; or so afraid of being down-stat, that they tried all kinds of unusual solutions, etc. A culture of fear. Stimulated in my opinion by the system of ‘overts/withholds’. Especially the misuse of ethics. It is in Scn that I experienced for the first time the phenomenon of the ‘missed withhold of nothing’, even before I read about it.

  285. Jim — have you been having a few rough days? Your voice seems more biting than usual and you never seem to temper your voice very much to begin with 🙂

    But this “rumor” about LRH’s voice has been circulating ever since 1983/84 and isn’t THAT far fetched considered what can be done with audio — AND the particular audio in question certainly wasn’t harmful etc etc — in other words — BIG DEAL.

    I personally don’t believe it’s necessary to bitch-slap those who come to this board even with snarky comments, outrageous comments or just down right stupid comments.

    It’s supposed to be about communication, Jim. And being bitch-slap and told to read the R&D volumes doesn’t seem remotely helpful — just a make wrong.

    You are a cramming officer I believe — and this type of commenting just makes a person sour on the subject —


  286. Joe — I don’t believe you can categorically say that it is a sick and flawed culture that allows a Hitler or Stalin to take over.

    The Red Chinese took over Tibet and continue to do so – Tibetans are sadly burning themselves up in protest and that wasn’t and isn’t a culture of sick and flawed people but rather an extremely (back before the Chinese invasion) a culture seeped in buddhism, practiced by everyone to a greater or lesser degree.

    Rather I would look at societies that have had a take over by a despot and look to the people. ALL people have a dark and evil side. Show me ONE person alive today who at least at some point in their life, didn’t have to confront his shadow. IN scientology there is the False Purpose Rundown designed to handle evil intentions.

    My point is — Miscavige rose to power over the backs of those he either took out OR who were willing to let him, so that THEY could benefit.

    There are few at Int today who are not there because it suits them FOR SOME REASON. The big bad world can be a scary place to earn a living, etc — why NOT stay and delude yourself that you are helping mankind WHILE getting three squares a day, good berthing and the feeling of being an ELITE person.

    It’s never so black and white … IMHO


  287. I was at Flag during the L1 purge. AND at first, when people were missing from the Exec Dining Room (the L1 purge was done from the TOP of the org board, then was planned to go through the whole staff), we would all say : OHHHH I just KNEW so and so was an SP.

    THEN when practically the entire dining room was empty and very few were left standing — we’d say — that’s impossible – it’s way more than 2 1/2 % and yet NO ONE was willing to say — STOP THIS.

    However, someone must have been (I just don’t know who) – because it did stop. Frankie Freeman who was in charge of the mission was busted big time and everyone got off the RPF. Those on the RPF at that time, loved the rest, loved the friendships. THEY were the most up tone group on the base. I could see them mustering every morning on the roof of the garage from my room on the 9th floor.

    I was so envious … THEY were having fun. I was miserable, overworked because my seniors were all there …

    Keep in mind — we ALWAYS perceive things from a particular vantage point.

    The L1 RS thing was quite a Stalin type purge — frightening but no one died


  288. Steve, I got you.
    In fact I wasn’t in the SO and I never felt that my group members (publics) were part of an SP group.
    But I have seen many BS on lines, even in a small Org as the one were I was on lines.
    While doing my Doubt formula I discovered that being in Doubt was way above the condition of my fellow Scientologists. They were in at least treason to the purposes of Scientology (say, their “posts” as Scientologists or Friends of LRH).
    My Doubt was formulated as “can I ever help LRH to achive the goals of Scientology while being part of the group under the current leadership”.
    Once I formulated the Doubt, it was like a wals for me.
    And I had nothing to fight against. All my Friends in the CofS didn’t understand me, because they didn’t see the confusion (LRHs Scientology vs. Miscavology) they were stucked in.
    I am not fighting the CofS. I am like Ghandi, I only refuse my further contribution to the Church as long as it is under the supressive dictatorship of Miscavige.
    I know it will be hard to recover the original purposes of the church after DM is gone. But it will dePTS the scene a little bit.
    It’s a process.
    Meanwhile I broke my contacts (outflow) to almost any Scientologist in the Church and will show / target the misaplication of David Miscavige, his treason, his lies (there are many in public speaches, too – he is making mistakes).

    I understand when you say, the church became a SP-Group.
    The comparision with Nazi-Deutschland is accurate.
    The Germans, many of them, wasn’t aware what was going on in Germany until the 50’s. Imagine that. Their lines were cut. They lived in a police state “for the better good of the purposes of the superior german race”.
    However, the majority of the public/stuff/church member will not listen to this comparision. We can see the harmonic of this behaviour, but it is different in the level of violence.
    The avarage Church Scientologist is in Confusion / Treason to Scientology and it’s purposes, policies and management lines.

  289. I noticed the service started to go way downhill in the fall of 1996. I finally made my final exit one and a half years later.

  290. Path of Buddha

    You may know that I am not a practicing scientologist. I left the church in 1989. My initial thought about this quotation was similar in that I can see the elitism. In fact, being faith is no part of Buddha’s path at all. Therefore,
    I really would never use the scientology material in my practice.
    In addition, I have read extensive accounts of Buddhist and Hindu Yogis
    and this information is far more accurate. However, I grant that the interpretation by Ron Hubbard is his alone. Thus there are those who accept it as doctrine. Following the words of the Buddha, I accept all
    religions. One other point. Ron Hubbard uses the word ‘mystic’.
    With my great admiration of St. Francis, I cannot accept the interpretation.
    However, I do see how he fits it all into his own tone-scale and thus it
    becomes part of his doctrine.

    May all Yogis be well and happy!
    George M. White

  291. Try this on for size, Brian:
    Being Faith is having a positive postulate.
    Having Faith is hoping someone else does.

  292. one of those who see

    Excellent!!! Another good differentiation between DM and LRH. I’ll take the tone 40, thank you!

  293. Sorry for the double post. I know how nauseating even one is. My bad.

  294. E.J.— I had no idea that my agreeing with what you said would cause Thoughtful to respond with “Are you nuts?”, “Don’t be stupid”, and “read LRH tech before you crap on it.” This response totally trumped my desire to continue communicating. So, thanks for rescuing me with your response.

    I’d like to say to Marty, “Congratulations! Thank you so much for all the work you did to finish your book. Thanks also to the two fine editors who helped you. I am so happy for you and for of us out here who will soon share the pearls of wisdom.:) I can’t wait to read it!”
    All my best, Sarah.

  295. …America is a fascist society…

    Hmm. It’s your right to have that viewpoint, but I don’t accept it as real. Not at all.

  296. Hey gang, ok there is some snark in my comment. Firstly let me agree with you George about acking all paths as valid. That is why, as a non Scientology practitioner I support this Indy Movement.

    My response was not so much about faith as it was to open this dialog:

    My snarkhood came from my years and years in Scientology wherby I constantly heard from Ron the superiority of his path and the “johnny come lately” inferior other than Scientology path.

    Inverted eighth dymamic, All the info regarding Jesus, (I respect confidentiallity even though its everywhere on the internet) only keyed out mystics, the after life state being relegated to avoiding space opera, the astral world is an implant, all religion (except scientolgy) is a implant control mechanism, monks, priests etc. are all dramatising, there is no God but you (a very dubious assumtion if you don’t know who you are).

    I scored a movie distributed by Universal that aired world wide. It is called “Jesus In India”. The historical records of the true stature of Christ goes 180 opposite to Ron’s degrading delusions regarding him.

    So here is the battle line: Jesus was a degraded pervert or Jesus was what is called an Avatar. Avatar: Sanskrit means, ava- down, tri- to pass.

    Avatar is a being who has been liberated in previous world cycles and incarnates in the world for its upliftment.

    And when I studied for decades both of these perspectives I concluded that it was Ron who was King Snark when it came to feeling comfortable around the greatness of other teachers.

    And speaking of blind faith: how many Scientologists “believe and have faith” that Christ was a pervert.

    Tell me, how can that assertion be direct perception of truth. It is faith in the uttmost definition. Blind and dogmatic!

    There is a dilemma, a puzzle for the Independence to solve as it mingles with our common culture: how can that individual ( whom Ron originally acknoledged as civilizing the western world) now be part of the cause of it’s entrappment.

    You may say it’s because he developed and researched higher levels.

    But in my research, reading for decades and decades and in my expansion of awareness though meditating for 40 years on a daily basis, I conclude that Ron is indecently inaccurate regarding the many roads to Freedom, Wisdom, Power, Bliss and the Godhead.

    A-Friggn-Men 🙂

  297. And for those interested it is the Jesus in India a Yellow Hat Production. It chronicles Jesus life from 12 to 30. In every gospel those 18 years are missing. WTF?

    There is evidence of his traveling the silk road on a carravan to India. There are records of his stay in Jagganath(ancient spiritual school) and in the Himis monestary in Tibet.

    If you google it you can find where to get it.

  298. Alex Castillo


    In line with what I believe you are trying to do with your book, Marty, I hope you don’t mind publishing the following, something I am sure you already know about.

    I respect Bill for what he tried to do during and after the infamous Mission Holders Massacre, his attempts to reform Scientology and all that went with it. I was there during the 1980-1981 events he describes, but seeing the tide drastically change, I left a few weeks before he did. I knew Bill personally and I always thought that people like him, Allen Buchanan (RIP) and Kerry Gleason, along with Janis Guillham) ( Grady) were people who could see that Scientology would come out right at the end of the day. Bill and Kerry and maybe a couple of other people did try to get Scientology and the Sea Org back to the basic purpose of helping the human race get better. But they ran against David Miscavige.

    I also, at close range, witnessed David Mayo’s attempts from beginning to end, and I became a casualty for just being there.

    Bill’s radio interview speaks the truth.

    Whether you are an old timer or new, or know nothing about Scientology,
    Bill Franks speaks the the truth as I and many others, remember those events that took place in 1980-1981.


  299. Hi Chiun,
    Let us not forget, The Destroyer series was first and foremost a series of novels. Chiun, your reference brings back fun memories! I never saw the movie (didn’t know one existed), but I read many of the books in the few minutes of downtime I had way back when. The reading was a fun and refreshing diversion with some staff significance, but really my favorite was the E.E. Doc Smith Lensman series which many of you, I’m sure, enjoyed.

    Thanks for bringing forward the comments regarding the eval and FO – very, VERY relevant! Ditto the comments regarding Marty’s blog.

  300. In fact, being faith is no part of Buddha’s path at all.
    I can’t disagree with you. You’re right. There is no concept in Buddhis as “being faith”.
    Even in the concept of the Five Strengths, faith is not described as some inner part of the beingness.

    I can’t interpret for Ron, but I fully understand his distinction between having or being faith. The most important sentence in the above quote from LRH is: “The source, content of and contact with faith is you.

    “Mystic” has more definitions.
    We shouldn’t forget, APA was written in a time when the beatnik generation started in the US.
    Many of those people were not even able to explain their mysticism to the audience. LRH had a more scientific approach. Therefore sometimes it seems he was a little bit “pejorative”. It’s true for me and I can understand him doing so.
    One definition of mystic (adj.) is: “having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding;”

    I don’t consider “being faith” as a doctrine of Scientology.
    I think LRH wanted us to see that we are at the cause end of “faith” and that faith is not something one “has” but something which is a inseparable part of our beingness. We should try to recover this part of our beingness instead of looking for faith elsewere (in the outside world, some authorities, etc. etc.).

  301. Path of Buddha


  302. Li'll bit of stuff

    PJ, (1) I’d like to give you a genuine acknowledgement for
    your origination on the “constant, watering, tearing…”
    and hereby do: “got that, PJ!”
    (2) “Who is………..? ” ——— YOU!
    How’s that for a change?
    Don’cha just love the theta available on this blog PJ?

    Calvin B.Duffield …….HAS Course Graduate Nov 1971

  303. HannibalTheFirst

    Dear Publius, I would totally disagree and differentiate a few things. First yes before 1995 you could get lucky to get a skilled auditor and have tremendous wins. And yes it could be fun to be around keyed out publics that had a good session. Absolutely. But if one looks at the organization as such it was a non caring shithole. Flag captains giving orders where publics had to stay. Arbitrary routing forms to make sure you have to see all the money grabbers on your way out, so they can try to take from you what is left over. One time I arrived and had no sleep for 24 hours with IRS regges trying to extort money from me, telling me the Sea Org has all the materials to leave this planet and leave manking here to suffer for enternity, so I had to give them my money. The hotel front desk had a room full of non delivered mail. After asking 10 times for an important shipment and not getting it, I traced it down and worked 4 hours through a room of mail to find it myself. Staff just dumped the mail there not delivering it to hotel guests. All the while FLAG promo was praising the Fort Harrison as a a multi star hotel. So for the orgnaization it was OK even at that time to lie about what type of hotel they were running. Then you had folder pages to bang at your door at midnight to wake you up and get you to attest one cycle so they could count it for their stats. Giving a public some rest when stats are at stake? Oh no. The attitude was public were there to serve the organization not vice versa. Do not get me started on the reges, Hi Levy one exception, mostly rude and only after your money.
    The you paid professional rates and they send you an auditor from the outer orgs interns with out ruds and being pissed off by being kept at Flag and not letting go home because FLAG had a lack of auditors.
    One day you are correct during Debbie’s tenure they did a survey what public is thinking about “Friendliest place on earth.” The result was devastating so they came up with a solution. For a few weeks there was a fruit buffet for publics at the fort Harrison. Publics had a gathering and when it got later staff was sneaking in to get some fruit as well. That was the solution.

    I am sorry, FLag never was ‘The friendliest place on earth’. That was a big big PR and marketing lie.You should read some of the stories staff from those times have to tell how the organization was run. FLAG was never about the only reason orgs should exist per LRH policy. FLAG was always a self serving organization and tasked being David Miscavige’s primary money machine.

    And that is what this was about: falsehoods. Flag management knew from sureveys that the public found the slogan “friendliest place on earth” almost cynical. But they continued to lie and choose to through some fruit at it as solution. That is what the problem is falsehoods and lies were acceptable even at those times, although you could get lucky and get a good auditor at FLAG and have some wins as PC.
    The tech correctly applied frees Theta. What really changed after 1996, is that the tech got demolished in the interest of a control operation.

  304. George,
    Re-reading the quote, and considering your practices, perhaps if you looked at this along the lines of a high-level “koan”, you may have better luck in regaining the state of being where one is the source of all the truth he’s ever going to know. KNOW, is a key term as well, and is above UNDERSTADNING.

    It is a state of being, not thinking. It IS.

  305. wh,
    I did preface it with a WARNING!!

    This is all a Q&A, this conspiracy theory nonsense about LRH kidnapped, replaced, fake Ron’s, the whole nine yards.

    As to the suggestion to study the subject and all will be revealed, that is precisely from my Qual hat.

    And for “bitch slapping”, well, you have herein “bitch slapped” me have you not?

    Waaaaaaaaaaaaa. I’ve been “bitch slapped” just seems to wimpy a valence for me at this point. So, “bitch slap” away wh, it’s OK with me, and a being every now and again needs to outflow. I’m not going to limit you to what it is you do outflow and in my honest opinion, you “bitch slap” with the best of them 😉

  306. Grasshopper

    Hmmmm About your statement…. “OT TRO done right is essentially meditation “done right.”…

    I had many wins trying to go OT or exterior on OT TRO and TRO. I used them, with some success, to try to quiet the mind, to handle the physical discomfort of sitting for extended periods of time, and all sorts of things, but in reality I consider all of those, and a lot more, are simply arbitrarys and additives that have little or nothing to do with the stated purpose of either drill.

    In my experience, I feel that the TRs generally have likely been overrun to the extreme on most people, and so they dive into all kinds of nonsense in order to achieve something that they likely achieved in the first few hours, or less. The abilities being trained in the TRs are found naturally in many people and they would not need to be “drilled” at all, but simply confirmed as being “in”.

    So no, I cannot agree that “OT TRO done right is essentially meditation “done right.”… In my opinion OT TRO “done right” has little or nothing to do with the act of meditating in any form whatsoever.

    But that is just my opinion…

    Eric S

  307. one of those who see

    I was listening to the Dennis Prager show this morning and he was interviewing Victor Cha, Author of The Impossible State. About North Korea. It was chilling as he explained that even as a government official from America he had to give up his cell phone and passport upon arrival. There is no American Embassy there either. Dennis asked him if he thinks husbands and wives talk frankly about the government in the privacy of their bedrooms. Victor said not much of that goes on anywhere in North Korea because Big Brother is everywhere.
    Dennis asked him about all the crying at Kim Jong Il’s funeral. Was it forced? Could people be sent to the gulag for not crying? Victor said yes for Insubordination. He also said that some people were really crying as this was their leader and this is all they know.

    Another bit of info. from
    UNHCR The UN Refugee Agency
    North Korea is literally cut off from the world, and the Internet is no exception. The World Wide Web is only accessible to a small minority: a few of the regime’s senior officials and some foreign diplomats, assured only (at least until the end of 2010) via a satellite link to foreign-based servers.

    The great majority of the population is kept away from the Web and is restricted to using an intranet which provides an email inbox, a few news sites relaying the regime’s propaganda and a browser which gives users access to web pages with links to the databases of the country’s three largest libraries: the Grand People’s Study House, Kim II-Sung University and Kim Chaek University of Technology. This intranet system is accessible only to academics, businessmen and high-ranking officials who have received special clearance. In the last few months, hand-picked information obtained from the World Wide Web was made available on the intranet. Some universities now use open-source software derived from the Web.

    The parallels between North Korea and The Church of Scientology (especially Sea Org) are chilling. Even down to The Cult of Personality. I also need to say that North Korea goes more to the extreme…still.

  308. Joe,

    Can’t let you get away with the statement you made: “when it was Ron and Mary Sue who spearheaded federal crimes, in the very well documented Operation Snow White/Freakout.”

    This statement is not true. LRH and Mary Sue did not spearhead federal crimes, and you have a misunderstanding of Operation Snow White.4

    Read the ORIGINAL Snow White program which is somewhere on the web last I saw. There were no federal crimes ordered. A paraphrase or summation: Uncover the source of false reports on Scientology and LRH that were being circulated throughout the US gov’t agencies and the world governments. In other words – find the truth and expose “who done did what.” There were significant false reports circulating world-wide which were closing or threatening to close ports to the Apollo; one of those caused a riot in Portugal (think it was) from which the Apollo had to flee.

    Freakout was not related to Snow White and ended long before the Snow White program. That was something that was originated MUCH lower down the org board, and was very much contrary to LRH policy, in addition to being criminal. Check out Steve Thompson’s ( site and the “Black Propaganda” article – especially the subsequent commentary on it where I added some clarifications on this). Again, “Freakout” and similar operations were NOT related to Snow White which was just a truth-seeking program.

    Re Snow White – Guardian Office staff members did get desperate when FOI legal discovery was closed off and yet it was known that there was information still in the files. This is where the burglary and “theft” of government documents came in and where Mary Sue became involved. The infiltration of government offices was right after the 1960s and early 1970s era of journalistic exposes such as “Pentagon Papers,” and FBI “Cointelpro” operations, “Watergate” and such. Ferreting out government wrong-doing was rather fashionable – even heroic – at that time. Whistle-blowing was something of a national pastime, and the press constantly filled with such headlines. There were Congressional hearings on government intelligence abuses against citizens. From that perspective, I have few qualms with what was done to discover truth just as I have no qualms when government malfeasance is discovered in other ways – for example, leaks that expose national security violations at the highest echelons. Someone probably would have committed a crime in “leaking” emails or documents, but better that than letting another sell weapons technology to terrorists of the world.

    I will not defend Operation Freakout, however. It was blatantly off-policy because it was based on a manufactured lie about a writer who tried to make a name for herself with a poorly researched (IMO) “expose” on Scientology. Her name and her book would have been forgotten in time otherwise.

  309. Amen Gern! Spot on! So true!

  310. That was very witty Les!

    I can see the truth in what Hubbard says, I can also see the truth in what Brian is saying. I can also see the truth in what George is saying.

    Maybe everyone is right ?

  311. Gern Gaschoen

    Please do not forget that LRH himself observed this phenomenon, and wrote for us the Cleared Cannibal PL to indicate the proper handling, i.e. don’t get overwhelmed, confront, handle, and get the PC through the process.

  312. You said it better than I did.

  313. GH & LB,
    Paul Davis was at WHQ in La Quinta in ’78 and what became the Int base when we moved there in ’79. He worked in the AV area and tape duplication lines and was a good friend. He was offloaded sometime in the early 80’s and I last saw him as a public OT8 passenger sometime in the mid 90’s at the Freewinds on an MV anniversary voyage in June. He had a big frame and was even bigger at the time.

  314. EJ,
    I’m going to give this one last go before I move on because IMHO you are simply dramatizing the effects of being connected to and perhaps in support of a suppressive group without being aware of it.
    You said:”
    A-E are for SP groups if they come to their senses and I don’t see that happening as they lost them completely and fully follow suppressive policy.”

    The blame game is nowhere in my opinion.

    A-E is done by the INDIVIDUAL following a cycle whereby they have been declared a suppressive person by the group. This is done for re-entry into the group as the door is always left open, even if only slightly. This also presumes that the group is not suppressive itself.

    In our current scene, the situation is reversed (as in reverse $cientology which has been clearly laid out on this blog) and because of that one would have to work out how to do the A-E from that viewpoint.

    Let’s say you have been declared an SP by the RCS. We know that is very likely false. RCS is suppressive. There are several flows here but one is that you (we) need to say what is true for us and blow the whistle on the RCS (flow two and three maybe). Another flow (perhaps flow zero) is what was/is going on with you (me) to allow or at minimum, not see the outnesses that resulted in a whole track SP gaining control of the COS.

    Make no mistake. It would not have occurred if we were all taking full responsibility for our own and others actions.

    Fundamentally IMHO we all share that burden but I will not tell you that you have to agree with my viewpoint as that is simply up to you. As Steve has noted, there is great relief and gain to be had in working out this A-E issue for ones self and applying it the best one can to his or her own SCENE. Doing so leads in the direction of IDEAL and in greater application of the tech LRH left for us..

  315. I’m sorry, you’re 100% right and I apologize. No body is responsible for what he does, especially new public. No being has any faintest responsibility for lending support to a criminal enterprise.

    And I’m even more sorry I gave you a wrong indication by suggesting a way people could easily and swiftly restore joy to their lives by taking responsibility for their own causation in supporting a suppressive group.

    I’m sorry EJ, you didn’t do anything wrong by supporting the Church of Scientology all those years. Don’t bother to expose any conspiracy. Don’t make up whatever damage you caused by supporting the most suppressive group in Scientology’s history. Never confront your own causation in the matter.

    Everything I said was just a wrong indication.

  316. Jim,

    Wow, what an awesome reference! Goes to show that DM, the POB, Dear Leader, etc. is really practicing a practicing Psych as his APU (as per usual) is:

    “The basic psychiatric assumption that enough punishment will restore sanity is disproven, not only by psychiatric statistics but by actual observation and removal of the effects of “punishment” by processing.”

  317. WH,
    This happened at WHQ as well and I spent 9 weeks in “Summer Camp” and about 40-50% of the crew and execs were in the RPF at the time. A huge majority of us received unconditional reprieves at the beginning of September due to “false definition of a Rock slam.”

    Snr messengers Dede and Claire were sent to Flag and Pac to handle the reprieves there directly afterwards.

    While this was going on, Cine was so decimated that the entire Uni Med Org (they shot the Case he couldn’t crack film) personnel from Flag were imported and some of these also ended up in the RPF. We spent a lot of time doing Sets and Props for the films being shot as all of Sets and Props were in the RPF.

  318. morelivesthanacat

    Second time this rumor has been floated here about RJ38 being a forgery. It was just before my time there, but I believe Dan Koon was directly involved with directing Ron Clifford as “RAV” and could probably put the rumor to rest. (You there Dan?) This was a period when LRH was around (tech films shooting era in late 78 at WHQ in La Quinta, Cal) and had set up the “12 mic” battery; a recording booth with 12 balanced high quality microphones to achieve a duplication of his voice. It was to be used for recording tech film LRH narrations as well–such as TR16 Beingness. Security was blown at WHQ in Jan ’79. The 12 mic battery was moved to the new locations (current GOLD/Int) and while LRH did return there briefly to work with the crew on the KTL and LOC picture book in the summer of ’79, due to security concerns (thanks to Dave’s handling of the “All Clear”), he never again returned and worked with the crew.
    Thus, by about 1984 when it was evident that he’d never be doing any narration recordings for the tech films, a call went out for LRH sound-alikes for the express purpose of Tech Film narration (which would be so credited in the credits).
    Anyway, hopefully Dan Koon will jump in here.

    Meanwhile, knock off the rumor mongering. It doesn’t help.

  319. About the recent comments, I think LRH nailed it in his essay “The Social Personality”, which starts out thus:

    “Man in his anxieties is prone to witch hunts.

    All one has to do is designate “people wearing black caps” as the villains and one can start a slaughter of people in black caps.

    This characteristic makes it very easy for the antisocial personality to bring about a chaotic or dangerous environment.

    Man is not naturally brave or calm in his human state. And he is not necessarily villainous.”

    Without going into the dynamics and mechanics of the “depth psychology” of it all, I think he captures the essence of the situation, and why any human group or society is fertile ground for a merchant of chaos to bring about a dangerous environment.

    To my mind, the WHY is that humanity has fears and anxieties that the unscrupulous and ill-intentioned can take advantage of to stir up trouble and create chaos and uncertainty.

    On this fertile ground, various WHOs arise who do then go ahead and wreak destruction in the long run, even as they pretend to be working “for the good of all”.

    Stalin and Hitler are often mentioned in this context, but there are many other examples. Before Stalin there was Lenin and the other revolutionaries; before Hitler, Europe was generally an area in which force was worshipped by the various peoples living there, and “strong leaders” were looked up because it was felt by many that, at least they brought some degree of order and security. That is still the case in the USA, which spends 47% of the entire world’s expenditure for weapons(defense spending).

    Other examples are some notorious criminals, but there also men such as Dr.Benjamin Rush, who is often called “the father of American psychiatry”, who initiated “reforms” but wrought havoc and death in the New World as far as he could reach, in the name of helping people. We often overlook those who have infiltrated the fields healthcare, education, and religion, as well as politics. As has David Miscavige. In healthcare, there were the Eugenics Movements in the USA and Europe, advocated by some Doctors and other OLs of society.

    In politics there was Senator Joe McCarthy, and before him, the instigators of the House Unamerican Activies Committee(HUAC).

    Before those guys, the was the KuKluxKlan

    Please note that in his essay “The Antisocial Personality” LRH wrote that about 20% of a race(society, culture) have antisocial tendencies.


    He later states that only 2 1/2 % are truly dangerous. But it is the other 17 1/2 % of that 20% are the “fertile ground” for the chaos the SP breeds, in my view of what LRH wrote. The 17 1/2 % are the cheerleaders, the ready and willing “koolaid drinkers” who jump on the suppressive bandwagon and don’t want to let go of it.

    These essays by LRH I find worth reading and re-reading, they often stimulate new thoughts and cognitions on the subject of the difficulties of the human situation.

  320. Good find Nonono. There is an area of psychology called “positive psychology” that focuses on creating or reinforcing the positive and healthy. We need a lot more of it, along the lines described in that article about the RCMP.

    Scientology and Scientologists ought to have been in the forefront of that kind of thing, and we briefly were, many many years ago!

    Look what has happened instead….. all of the Scientology related social initiatives have been brought into disrepute…..

    It’s a hard thing for which to forgive Miscavige and his lemming followers.

  321. martyrathbun09

    Haven’t heard it and don’t have time to listen. But, my experience with the fellow is that he can’t help but weave a larger than truth picture of himself (falsely guiltless) into his tales.

  322. Joe Pendleton

    Windhorse – you make some great points and yes, it is not a totally black and white situation of course. Re: Tibet, China – I wasn’t really talking about the taking over of one culture/country by a more dominant or powerful one. There are certainly many examples of what is sometimes called imperialism throughout the centuries. Tibet is an admirable culture as is Vietnam (taken over by the French) and sometimes a physically small nation (Britian) has taken over a much larger one (India).

    What I was specifically referring to was the rise of an autocratic dictator within a group and the agreement within a group that allows that rise. Thus my mention of Germany and Russia. I was in Russia a year after the fall of communism and already many folks I talked to were bemoaning the absence of the dictator (and now we see essentially the rise of another in-effect dictator in Putin in their so-called “democracy”).

    What you will find is common in the rise of a dictator like Miscavige is a culture of authoritarianism, where folks become conditioned to an all powerful and never to be questioned force at the head of the group. Russia for example had an all powerful autocratic Tsar and serfs (slaves) for centuries before Lenin took over and became a dictator.

    In Scientology, let me just refer to two policies which greatly facilitated dictatorship and total power at the top. One was making “mutiny” a crime (along with other crimes outlined about working against one’s senior). This of course is specifically aimed at staff or public communicating amongst each other and working TOGETHER to build up support against a psyhco senior like Miscavige. It beomes against the culture and tradition of the group to even question the leader amongst a husband and wife. Similarly the policiy against petitioning as a group. Yeah, I know…. the group bank. But what is the effect of these policiies? Staff (or public) cannot talk amongst themselves and build up support against the dictator. The recourse is…..GET THIS…. you have to petition singly or query THE CRAZY POWER HIMSELF (or his surrogates) for relief….. really, how crazy is that? “Dear Adolf…….” What is needed IS mutiny? (You can see the American Declaration of Independance about the responsibility of folks when their government turns bad and it is NOT politely going to the king one by one……) The above policies and culture of silence are all about the “power” remaining the power. Yes, the only good thing about democracy is……..

    When a culture or group ACTIVELY discourages communication in the group about its politices and leaders (and backs it up with severe penalties) you will have a group that is in fact AGREEING to dictatorship and unquestioning support of its leader. And to a large degree the rise of Miscavige. Otherwise you would have had at least SOMEONE stand up in the 1982 SF Mission Holder’s Conference and shouted “THIS is not the Scientology I joined!” or someone screaming during Miscavige’s nutso “musical chairs” episode – “THIS guy is fucking nuts!!!” and just tackled the asshole or something.

  323. He’s not going to get it Steve. Maybe he will re-up and join the band on the deck of the Titanic.
    But that comment isn’t fair to the band as they knew their fate and took responsibility to help others get through the process.

  324. Leonore,
    Thank you for this.

  325. Joe Pendleton

    I’ll just add one more quick point. In all societies where you have the rise of an all powerful dictators, always always ALWAYS one gets into BIG time trouble by just communicating. Folks are informed on for just TALKING (Ethics interrogatory – has Bob ever said anything to you about …..?; Knowledge Reports, etc; Associating with undesirable individuals or groups being verboten). AND a free press is ALWAYS discouraged and Black PR’d (or outright gotten rid of in dictatorships). The media is “always bad” (cause they say bad things about US of course).

  326. Li'll bit of stuff

    Sinar, immense thanks for sharing this about
    Paul. And your description matches the guy I
    knew.He got his size from his ol’ man Reg.
    As you say, he had this large frame and
    therefore the propensity to carry a lot of bulk
    with ease. I’m sure you’d agree that he had a
    very imposing presence, but at the same time
    had some of the best natural TR’s I have ever
    seen. Altogether great guy, sure would’ve done
    his ol’ man proud.

    Especially pleasing to see that he managed to
    top out at OT VIII too!

    Much appreciated Sinar.

  327. Joe Pendleton

    Thanks for the info Lenore. That’s another viewpoint I hadn’t fully considered and now will look at.

  328. The 12 Mic battery was put away and not set up from WHQ. After WHQ was blown, LRH lived in Hemet at an apartment building called “X” which is the next letter on the alphabet after W with a limited crew of Household unit, External Comm, David & Merrill Mayo and Messengers. LRH had AV equipment set up to remix his early lectures which were poor in quality, but the Mics were not set up. He went off the lines with Pat and Annie in 80. There is no doubt at all that the person I served was LRH, these rumors from the seventies are simply hilarious to me and brings up that HCOB with graphics of the misunderstood word and confusions. The AV gear was put in storage after X was shut down.

    In Feb 82, LRH wanted his AV equipment set up at the Int Base. His intention was to get back to the Gilman base and back onto production there, having written Battlefield Earth while he was away. I ended up doing a project to set up all of LRH’s AV lines at the base including putting the R AV, who is still on post there. The 12 Mic battery was not set up at the time, but years later, with a whole big renovations was put in. Instead, we put together and sent up a “location recording rig” with brand new state of the art Mics, portable top recorder, Dolby processors etc. which was used by LRH to record those RJs of much higher quality, which I guess are being stated as fake as well. The recoding of Ron Clifford was recorded and inserted separately. However, RAV did the mixing and editing of the recorded tape and I ran off those high quality cassettes which were sent to each org on Nakamichi tape deck battery. Opinions and speculations are easy to come up with to support whatever theories are being expounded. However, those things are what I had experienced in the past, which I hope would dispell rumors.

  329. Tom Gallagher

    It’s my impression and conclusion that POB, the little-psycho-sledge hammer-that-couldn’t be-in-chief wailed away at “LRH” with aplomb.

    We observe and comment on the results. Next comes the flame-out.

    Enjoy the ride.

  330. Ronnie Bell

    Bill’s radio interview speaks the truth.

    Alex, Bill Franks spouted off a lot of vicious and unsubstantiated rumor in that interview. He claims that LRH ordered a hit on a serving British Member of Parliament, for one, which is about as low as it gets. Upon checking, one person who posts regularly to a Scn Facebook site I belong to, found that in the time period that this alleged hit was supposed to have occurred, only one serving member of the British Parliament was killed, and that was due to a bomb attack by the Irish Republican Army terrorist group. That hardly had anything thing to do with Scientology or with LRH.

    Bill Franks also goes on to quote Margaret Singer, noted high priestess of psychiatry, as saying that the O/W tech that LRH developed, was the most effective mind control technology she’d ever seen. He actually speaks fondly of her, and treats her like an Opinion Leader in that interview.

    I’ll tell you something else. I have my own up close and personal observations of Bill Franks from the early 1970s, when he was the E.D. of L.A. Day. I personally witnessed him drive a staff member into a total meltdown. He broke that woman’s spirit in front of my eyes. She left the org that day, and I never saw her again. That man also cast a sense of dread and foreboding over the day org that was as thick as sludge. I saw what I saw, and I’ll never forget it.

  331. Hi Steve,
    Don’t feel bad. I don’t know why EJ got so riled up, he’s usually more mild mannered.
    The thing that gets me is in the end is it SO important that we all follow this policy to the red letter?? You gave some workable guidelines in my opinion. Hey, if they don’t indicate to some people who gives a shit??
    People outside of the cult can do what they please.
    Nobody is going to get routed to ethics and have to buy 14 sets of basics anymore.
    Even LRH said “if it’s true for you then it’s true”. Well… following every policy to the letter is a bunch of crap in my opinion. That is what is true for me. Following policy because it is Keeping admin working is for the bots as far as I’m concerned.

  332. Good response Joe.
    No ser fac detected… 🙂

  333. Path of Buddha

    My wife and I just finished a joint read of
    “Christ Enlightened”
    by Steven S. Sadleir
    Great Book along the lines you mention above.
    May Christ be well and happy!
    George M. White

  334. Path of Buddha

    One thing we discovered that was key. Thomas the “doubting apostle”
    is buried in India. The speculation is that he studied with Jesus
    in India.
    George M. White

  335. Path of Buddha

    I don’t practice Zen. I think that mixing is not such a good idea.
    For your information, in Theravada we achieve the ‘deathless state’
    It is very practical. Today I had to go to the hospital to visit my 83 year old
    friend named Sam. He is dying.
    I am giving him comfort and I am chanting for him.
    If you are ever interested in Buddhism please do not hesitate to ask.
    Much loving-kindness,
    George M. White

  336. one of those who see

    Probably evident, but the quote form the UN Site ends at “derived from the Web” The last paragraph is by me.

  337. Path of Buddha

    You got me going into my OT3 story. It is so very interesting that of all the narratives written by Ron Hubbard, the most famous is the Xenu narrative.
    I once heard a southern baptist recite it word for word when he tried to explain scientology to me.
    Now, the other implant stories in History of Man as well as OT8 material,do not have the same impact on the public.
    What do you think about this issue?
    George M. White

  338. To me Scientology is LRH’s creation.

    Official Scientology is still mainly LRH’s creation, because I see the staffs still following the form of the org.

    To me, freezone and independent Scientology are Div 6 splinter Field groups.

    My two cents advice for freezone and independents, just keep doing whatever you think is right, expand however you can manage, and just
    carry on picking off the defectors wanting to continue moving up the Bridge, and service them.

    Lead by good example.

    I think the strength of the admin echelons LRH put there will carry on declining but they’ll carry on for decades I think.

    They have built in means to self-correct.

    I think in the decades to come, they still just might do so.

    In 50 years, it’ll be a different scene, and so long as official Scientology doesn’t burn or destroy all the original LRH notes, despatches, comments, writings, etc, and all the Mimeo issues compiled and approved by him, LRH set up within the major official movement, the means to self correct out of the DM era.

    Which, even though I’m not a Scientologist, I think that longer range,future Sea Org leaders will rediscover and read and figure their way forward.

    But I do think LRH wanted for some organizations, the whole multi-echelon setup, with all the networks, etc, it just needs time to evolve.

    I’m not a believer in future lives, but I think future generation, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Scientologists who will come along in the decades to come, will at least have LRH’s writings to study.

    I urge more people to write their books, and keep in mind, that hopefully future Scientologists, decades from now, will read them, and wonder who you were and so forth..

  339. Mike Hobson

    Alex Castillo: In that interview, Bill Franks bluntly accused (starting at 13:55-14:20) Ron Hubbard of ordering Franks and Miscavige to set up a secretly recorded interview with his wife Mary Sue Hubbard to get her to incriminate herself on tapes that were then to be covertly forwarded to government agencies so that she would be imprisoned.

    Franks further claims (from 14:20-15:45) that he had access to G.O. Files (how is that possible when he was never G.O. and the G.O. was completely autonomous at that time ?) wherein he saw documents detailing plots to murder three (3) U.K. Ministers of Parliament. He further claims that at least one of these alleged murders was actually carried out! And to take it totally over-the-top he then states (at 15:56) that “basically everything came from Hubbard”, meaning (if we are to believe Bill Franks) that Ron Hubbard ordered these MPs murdered!!!

    Now, Mr. Alex Castillo, kindly explain how it happens that *you* have direct, personal knowledge that the above accusations represent true facts and that at least one U.K. Minister of Parliament was murdered at Ron Hubbard’s orders ? And how is it that you have failed to help the U.K. law enforcement bring these murders to justice, since you have firsthand knowledge of *murder*, which has no Statute of Limitations anywhere in the United States, United Kingdom or European Union ?

    If I were you, I would promptly retract your blanket claim that Bill Franks’ radio interview represents truth as you remember it; because, if it does, that makes *you* complicit in *murder*.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
    *I am not a lawyer*

  340. If L. Ron Hubbard had not left Saint Hill in 1966 but continued to lead the church of scientology from 1966 til 1986 the *same way* he did from 1950 to 1966, all the while doing the upper levels on land just like he did the lower levels, would David Miscavige have ever taken power?

  341. PS: This scenario is assuming that there was no arrest factor involved.

  342. Sapere Aude

    Leonore & Joe – here is what the eval says:

    S E C R E T
    GO 732 WW – Legal

    Apr. 20, 73..


    Policy: Attack is neccessary to an effective defence.

    Situation: Countries are being denied to OTC, the “Apollo” and LRH

    Statistics: A gradual reduction of available countries accurring since 1967. Trend Danger.

    Data: General operating record since 1967, studied with many uncovered incidents without foundation in fact. Each of these has had in common false reports.

    Recent exposure of official records have brought about the possession of data showing that England and the US have in the past spread false reports in several other countries which have caused trouble.

    Why: By spreading false reports a cumulative file can be built in their own and other countries which then tend to act on the file without the presence of the real … data which is factually good but which is then ignored.

    Secondary Why: The tendency or habit of police and immigration agencies to act secretly on record data without further advice, thus making a hidden third party situation.

    Ideal Scene: All false and secret files of the nations of operating areas brought to view and legally exp(loited?) and OTC, “Apollo” and LRH free to frequent all western ports and nations without threat and all required ports open and free.

    Plan: To engage in various litigation in all countries affected aso as to expose to view all such derogatory and false reports, to engage in further litigation in the countries originating such reports, to exhaust resources in those countries and then finally to take the nation to the United Nations (think now being possible for an individual and a group) and to the European Commission on Human Rights, meanwhile uprooting and cancelling all such files and reports wherever found.


    IMHO where things went off the rails was in the various decisions of what had to be done to verify that all false data in files had been obtained in order to enforce a correction of false reports. The eval done by LRH did not order anything illegal.

  343. Thanks, Sinar. I thought so. Paul was an awesome sup on the BC (this would be after he left Int). Between him and Chris Stevens (Paul the South African and Chris the Aussie) the BC was in good shape for a couple of years in the early ’80s.

  344. Well, I certainly am no expert on meditation, so I defer to you on that. The idea of OT TR0 was to just be there, and doing nothing else but be there, which is of course hard to do.

    TRs badly coached can certainly be overrun, or at least can piss people off to no end. But, TRs as themselves are what could be called an unlimited process if they were a process. There is no reason someone can’t just sit in a chair and be there for hours, or do TR1, or TR2, or TR3, etc., for hours. It is, as you note, a natural ability to just be there and confront.

    The key to TRs, though, is that they are NOT a process, they are drills, to get people in shape to handle the banks of PCs, and not rabbit from session. I have been in sessions auditing people for 2-3 hours at a time, so doing TR0 for a couple of hours is not a crazy thing to do.

    But yes, I was subject to the nonsense you speak of back when I was going for pass on my TRs, and I am sure it is a hell of a lot worse now. The problem was the incoherence of the Sup, in this case, and the arbitrary additives put on the TRs. What got me through it was using the LRH demo tapes and just doing that (as myself, not Ron – I did not snap terminals with Ron as some people tried to do), and used them fully as a reference when flunked for some idiocy or another. I’d just point out the same thing Ron did on the tape and say “well, are you going to flunk Ron? If so, I suggest you write up a tech query and send it up lines”.

    It is NOT cussing easy being a Scientologist.

  345. I read the warning Jim.

    I try not to be snarky.

    Telling someone to create an org … a one-liner seems snarky to me but then you are probably excused my others I guess because it appears that Gern Gaschoen has been deemed a troll.

    Although the others seem as if you were waiting to ambush them for example, George White, Brian, RD.

    This isn’t the first time that you’ve said I don’t have a sense of humor as a way to tell me how badly I’ve misperceived your intention.

    Yes there are times that I have gone after others – I tend to try to mitigate what I’ve said or downright apologize. You’ve set yourself up (or someone has) as Mr. Qual so I find that most people are unwilling to say — HOLD ON HERE JIM LOGAN — why are you being so harsh? (my observation only and I could be completely wrong)

    I’ve never found it very appealing to have a cramming officer come after me. He/she is supposed to be a senior terminal and as such even more understanding.

    Or so I think. I’m just a no/know nothing non-auditor buddhist. 🙂


  346. Joe & S.,
    You are most welcome. I am grateful that you took the time to read what I had to say. Maybe it will help enlighten others, too, and help sort out some of our past 3D engrams.

  347. Sorry Alex. This isn’t the Bill Franks that I knew at all. While he definitely cozied up to the Mission Holders, promising to protect them from management and even brought Alan Walters in to lecture and brief the FEBC students – Bill was basically a good looking lunatic 🙂

    Marty: I have to concur about Bill. I also knew Bill Franks from my time as an SO member in Florida and later as a public who offered a place for Bill to stay when he blew from Int. My ex and I tried to get him “recovered” …

    During the time he spent with us, he was in severe dental pain. We arranged for an emergency appointment with our dentist, which we paid for. We did pay for one root canal and crown. (not cheap) Bill promptly THEN got the dentist to give him a full analysis which he told the dentist we were going to pay for. THOUSANDS of dollars. Of course, that was stopped.

    But the most galling thing was that he stole out of our library a very rare LRH referenced book. He then left it at the next persons home he freeloaded at … they returned it to us.

    Ohhhh — and he broke a $2.00 knob on my dryer. When I asked him about this he flatly denied having done it although there was NO ONE else who had used the dryer.

    Bill at that time had a terribly low level of honesty.

    Perhaps he’s changed since then.


  348. martyrathbun09

    ONly read the first two paras of Michael Hobson and it reminds me why I don’t bother reading Franks.

  349. I agree with you Joe; although, I’ve always been intuitively against mutiny — seems like a dangerous way to go since a 3rd party could get a mutiny going against a good leader.

    In any case, I’ve pondered these conundrums often — how to get rid of a bad leader? I’m experiencing it now within my buddhist community. And am careful not to mutiny.

    The best I’ve come up with is to burn the place down and hope that she won’t be able to rebuild it during her term (JOKE) — but seriously I can’t come up with a workable way and I’ve tried.


  350. I haven’t and don’t intend to listen to that radio interview.

    The Bill Franks I knew was a nut job. He drove Diana (Hubbard) to the brink of a breakdown — her words directly to me. She left the SO (and returned later) BECAUSE of Bill Franks.

    Seriously — a good looking wacko.


  351. one of those who see

    UNHCR – United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

  352. Yes Leonore, I would think that it would help sort out some of those engrams. Also most of what is on the net is the same old accusations repeated over and over as though they were facts. What you have posted here will offset at least some of that.

  353. Thanks, Sapere, great post.

  354. Grasshopper

    Thanks for the response.

    I am no expert on meditation either.

    I was a TRs sup for years and it is one of my favorite things to supervise. It is the simplicity that seems to escape some people who do or supervise TRs. The instruction to “to just be there, and doing nothing else but be there,” is often morphed into some totally esoteric attempt to be at cause over both the mental and physical universe. (abilities right at the top of the Grade Chart) Many appear to be attempting to reach the status of pure “static” rather than just being able to be in front of someone without feeling anxious or frigidity, or embarrassed etc. TRO is not some kind of “zone” one needs to get into in order to audit. To me it is simply being relaxed and comfortable enough in front of someone to carry out a decent comm cycle.

    Unfortunately I have never had access to any of Ron’s Tech Films so I have no reality on them. I would be very interested in seeing them some day. (As a side note, I consider it pretty nutty that a Supervisor trained to supervise any level of Scientology training ( Hubbard Professional Course Supervisor) to be denied access to this important training tool simply because I was not on any course that had them on the checksheet. What a huge outpoint that is.)

    I did not believe the “presence” (TRs if you will) of the PC examiner at Flag when was last there in 98, I think it was. This girl was cute as hell, and as dead as a stick. Every shred of a real terminal had been drilled out of her. Zero ARC. Dead. And in order for her to have reached this exulted state at Flag, she must have been approved by every senior tech terminal and likely David Miscavige himself.

    Oh my….

    Eric S

  355. Chuck, I’ve read a few of your posts herein, and I want to acknowledge your viewpoint. I got it now. One thing left I don’t fully appreciate is why or how you shifted to a one life view as you have clearly stated, no soul, etc. Clearly amongst your agreements of Hubbard material and experiences, and yet denial of any furtherance of life after this, there is a dichotomy here, and so I for one would like to hear you elaborate more on this from your views on life.

    I’m not joking around, I would like you to expound, in full. I’m just listening.

  356. Perhaps stopping following leaders is the answer. Seems to be working very well with this independent scientology movement. Tbey all seem a lot happier as a result.

    The argument that you don’t want to mutiny against a bad leader because it can be used to remove good leaders suggests you’re questioning your own motives for your feelings and your ability to determine what is a good or bad leader. This is a good thing just don’t get too hung up on mutiny being inherently bad. Like all mechanisms it’s the user that determines intent and motivation.

    That said imo it’s better to walk away from any group you’re uncomfortable with in the philosophical, theological context because the internal political games that you inevitably get involved in as you attempt to correct things are a trap. On a philosophical journey you should say discomfort is a strong indicator that you don’t need that group or leader. Do your thing your way and share with similar like minded people, start a blog for instance.

  357. I must agree Ronnie. The USA and Canada are very diverse, pluralistic societies, and growing more so. Yes some with fascist inclinations live here, but then they are to be found anywhere in the world. They occassionally pop up here in influential positions, like Joe McCarthy did in the 1950s by preying upon the insecurities and fears of the public, and make the environment seem more dangerous than it is. That is their stock in trade, basically stirring up paranoia as much as they can.

  358. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks for this solid foundation, Sinar.Should do the trick.

  359. Sapere,
    Hearts to you. Thank you.

    I agree with your summation at the end as well. I would add only that data analysis did lead to conclusions that there were documents/reports that had not been coughed up on FOI. It was not just the effort to verify all were coughed up. It was pretty clear that many were not. IMO things went off rails when risks were taken to get the rest – risks that should not have been taken even if one could justify the actions as “whistle-blowing” of a sort. On top of that – the situation spiraled hopelessly down, down, down with the effort to hide and cover-up. IMHO certain individuals should have taken personal responsibility for their goofs instead of involving the entire Church. That’s where the proverbial %$&] hit the fan. Not very OT, not very heroic, sad to say. History now.

    What is important here and now is that others understand that LRH did not order anything illegal. A reading of this Eval and Plan makes that crystal clear and adds understanding to the times.

  360. Li'll bit of stuff

    Dean, I have to say that I find the posts of both you and
    Joe P extremely refreshing, in every sense of the word.
    And WH shares that there are elements in the Buddhist faith that do not square up to the practice (compassion!)
    Calvin B. Duffield

  361. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yep Valkov, Always will be predators, drooling over
    prey, whether in the Macrocosm or teeny Microcosm!

  362. Same old Bill Franks. Definitely won’t listen to that interview.
    I would almost swear on my life no one would ever let Bill Franks near a GO file. The accusations are hallucinatory.

  363. Chris Johnson

    Nice viewpoint Chuck, thanks for sharing it. 🙂

  364. I myself have not had any ideas of people being senior to others in the Independent movement, or junior. We are more or less associated terminals. I don’t view anybody out here as senior to myself or senior to the others. If there is someone out here senior to me, I don’t know about it. If there is someone junior to me, I don’t about it. I am no longer a cog in a military based culture. There may be people who consider themselves senior to me, or senior to their next door neighbor. Or senior to everybody else. But you are not junior to anybody and either am I. We are associated terminals. We are here on equal terms.

    IF it is true that: “most people are unwilling to say — HOLD ON HERE JIM LOGAN ”

    It might just be because of : “He/she is supposed to be a senior terminal” ideas that were born, and left, in some other universe.

    Clearly, non applicable in this one. Anyway, someone with a purpose to CORRECT certainly would appreciate other people’s efforts to CORRECT or make CORRECT, situations. I only see you making an effort to CORRECT. You don’t have to apologize to me for that. In fact, Thank You!

  365. “He who can truly communicate to others is a higher being who builds new worlds.” L.R.H.

  366. Li'll bit of stuff

    WH, I think your first sentence says it ALL. Hey,
    we all have our rough days, no exception.
    I only use the LRH measure to judge people.
    …..” the good, can help. The bad can’t or if they
    do, it’s only to betray….”
    ML, Calvin

  367. When I say we are all here on equal terms, I only mean to point out that I only see the lot of us as guests in Marty’s house.

  368. Sinar,
    I know, that’s exactly what struck me on that – DM is a “psych”. He dramatizes the valence he so loudly declaims.

  369. Create one was straight outta the Factors, Axioms and well, life. Snark? Hey, if somebody is looking for something, lots of times they see it. That’s also creation.

    If somebody creates a valence for me, and what I’m supposed to be identified with, have at it.

  370. George,
    I am immortal. So are you. So I’d say you’ve got a “deathless state” and maybe you should go to the Buddhist C&A and attest.

    Good on your being with your friend. I understand the succor to a fellow being as they shed the mortal coil and begin a new dventure.

    I was with my brother at that time, and my father. Both left this life in peace and with a zeal for the next.

    On the invite to Buddhism, I’m a little puzzled. You post here on Marty’s “ecumenical” blog and in the last couple of your posts you’ve taken to what I would call “Scn bashing”. Odd that. Now you prosletyze?

    You wanna be a Buddhist, fine. You claim you’ve “done” Scientology and moved on the path to what you feel is true for you. Fine. Move on. I’ve not once tried to persuade you otherwise. So, let’s grant the same in return and cut out the LRH/Scn bashing. Lest I lose my magnanimous, equanimity 🙂


    May all beings be and not so much become, fixedly. (Takin’ a page from your book.)

  371. Thanks Sinar and morelivesthanacat. Now, I can’t say about more lives, since there is no photographic evidence, but certainly with Sinar actually looking like Buddha, and corroborating the utter fallacy and silliness that I, in my unbearable insouciance addressed above, this will lay to rest the notion that I am Lucifer. I am not.

  372. Apology accepted. But everybody is fully responsible for his actions and his condition. If you’re plagued by residual toxicity it’s because you haven’t handled your past, please respond to my answer about the RPEC.

  373. windhorse, is it not possible to speak freely in that community?

  374. Wow !!!! Beautiful wins Richard !!!

  375. windhorse, it is true that the Han Chinese are practicing imperialism, colonizing Tibet and elsewhere also.

    But the majority of Tibetans were for hundreds of years held in a feudal serfdom, with the lamas in league with the secular government, jointly holding the power of life and death over them, trafficking them around for their own convenience. They (mis)used Buddhist ideas in much the same way that David Miscavige (mis)uses the ideas of Scientology; for example, they justified their abuse and cruelty towards the serfs by declaring it was the “karma” of the serfs to be treated that way. (“They pulled it in”, so to speak.)

    Yes, a few of the Buddhists have immolated themselves, as a few did in Vietnam years before to protest the war there, but I believe a majority of the Tibetan people are not sorry to see the lamas gone or having less power; the real tragedy is that the Han Chinese are making second-class citizens of the native Tibetans, and keeping them impoverished just as the lamas did. My point is that Tibet was never even close to any kind of Buddhist utopia, or even a good society.

    When I learned that side of the story, I thought, “The Chinese are taking over because the Tibetan Buddhists did not wear their hats regarding disseminating Buddhism.” They thought they were safe up in their mountains running their feudal system,, but “progress” caught up with them.

  376. Gern Gaschoen

    By the way, I am not trolling. Calling me a troll is just a cute way of not confronting what I am communicating about.

    I, also, believe that some of the higher-trained/more-experienced Scientologists in this group need to tone down their HE&R, and I believe its an out-indicator when someone suggests “hey guys, could you try getting the Manners PL *in*” and is responded to with “you are a jerk, you are a troll, you have double standards”, and so on. Inval, eval, other out-ruds.

    There is no excuse for trained Scientologists to be degrading, deriding, invalidating others in this forum. We’re here because we’re all interested in the same subject, and more than 95% of us want to see Scientology being *applied* in our lives, with hopes that it might happen around the ‘scene’ being formed with Marty and Co. Thats my hope, anyway, and I do see it happening even if a smaller collection have targetted me for their noise and fuss. Because, they don’t like what I’m saying.

  377. Gern Gaschoen

    Who runs American society? Its corporations do, in league with its government. America is a corrupt fascist state.

    This is Fascism, pure and simple. The United States is not governed by the people, for the people. The people are governed, for the corporations. LOOK, don’t Listen. If you truly inspect the scene, you will find that corporate fascism abounds all through American culture, it is an insidious feature of life in that country.

  378. Gern Gaschoen

    I believe this shift in the Church is what leads some to conclude that the Church is applying Black Scientology on its public.

  379. To The Oracle:
    LOLLLLLL !!!!!!
    ++++++ 10000

  380. “That being the case, I would like to know what other disaster happened just before that which prompted the “revision”.”
    Good point !

  381. Gern Gaschoen

    >In 50 years, it’ll be a different scene, and so long as official Scientology doesn’t burn or destroy all the original LRH notes, despatches, comments, writings, etc, and all the Mimeo issues compiled and approved by him, LRH set up within the major official movement, the means to self correct out of the DM era.

    Absolutely, 100% agree with you.

  382. Hey, speaking of “snarky”, I’m on my way to Cape Breton this Saturday and I’m hoping to get back up the Buddhist colony. Remember that nun I told you about chewing me out about eating lunch there last year? Well, I was talking to a woman, she’s a Theravedan Buddhist, and just got back from this big UN conference of Buddhist type stuff in Thakland and she said the same thing about the food as I told that nun, it’s reaaaaaaally good. So,

    She said the Buddhists are well known for the great food. Even if the nuns are snarky, the food is worth it, plus the space, that incredible library they’ve got, and the drive over the coast.

  383. “That virus was a falsehood.”

    Wow! This sure got a lot of T.A.! This blog is on fire!

  384. Alex Castillo


    Marty, WH, Ronnie, Leonore

    OOOOPs!! Sorry folks, I believe what you are all saying. In my mind I dismissed all that stuff about assassination plots etc (which I know nothing about) and I was only talking about his participation in what I call the massacre of the Missions. I never met him or communicated with him after the SO, only heard bits here and there over the last few years. Obviously he made contact with some of you,
    stole a book, poached on you and oh yes, broke a $2.00 knob and denied any responsibility!

    So Mea Culpa. amigos. Franks was not my friend, I was only aware of what posts he was holding and I had some respect for him as someone who had recently (before the Flag Land Base) been working with LRH. What happened to him after he left Int was unknown to me until now, and I think I have only heard half of the story. Come to think about it, I remember something my ex Maude and I saw in the late ’70s when we were both assigned to mest work after we blew our posts in FOLO EUS (we were on garrison, me as CO FOLO and Maude as KOT EUS) and returned to the Flag Land Base in Clearwater. Our mest work consisted in daily cleaning the executives private quarters, so every day for a couple of weeks we were alone inside various people rooms like Kerry and Jill’s, the Willhere’s (sp?) Including Mike and Cathy Rinder’s and of course, Bill and Jeanny Franks. On at least 3 occasions, in the Frank’s room, we saw an open, well thumbed copy of Hitler’s Mein Kampf on the floor near the bed.
    We thought that THAT was strange but eventually forgot about it. Perhaps I didn’t know him so well after all. I was aware of couple of other nut cases I interacted with during my time at Clearwater. One was Alex Sibersky, the other one was Bill Robertson (RIP)

    Anyway, please accept that my post was a complete fuck-up.:((



  385. Under Radar

    Oh, come on Marty !
    What’s the falsehood ?

  386. Freedom Fighter

    So true, Ronnie. Nowadays you’re doing svices over the PTPs of being buried in debt, constantly being hounded by regges and staff members trying to confirm you for the endless stream of events where you can be regged some more. Just when you think you’ve managed to claw your way through and complete some step, you’re told you have to do it over at your own expense because some hithertofor undiscovered bit of tech has been discovered thus invalidating any wins you may have gotten. It’s no wonder people need so long to destim once they leave. The insanity of it all is such a mind f–k it takes a while to process the fact of what has occurred and the impact it’s had on your life.

  387. 🙂
    I always loved Buddhism and I always will.
    I never had problems to understand LRHs words and I am very glad about it.
    Ron made some pejorative statements about some buddhist traditions, but he always gave credit to Gautama Siddharta.

    May all beings be able to see things as they are.

  388. “As they only comprise 20% percent of the population and as only 2 1/2% of this 20 percent are truly dangerous ….” (Introduction to Scn Ethics, “The Anti-Social Personality, the Anti-Scientologist”, L. Ron Hubbard, 1968.)

    The above referenced article is the one you are pretending to quote from and pretending to understand and pretending to interpret for everyone who reads here. I’m sorry, but this pisses me off. This is out of an introductory book, and is fundamental material, and I will not tolerate people who glibly dismiss this as “oh, but he wrote someplace else that it’s 2 1/2% and, oh, by the way, sonny, 2 1/2% is much easier to write, and “everybody knows” what it means … and besides, snark, snark, it makes it much easier to justify and cite references to justify the dismissal of perfectly good beings who suddenly, unexplainably, overnight, without bloody incident, switched over from being a well-liked and respected social personality auditing and C/Sing hundreds of PC’s successfully to major wins … suddenly switched over into a raging SP!! It just goes to show that vampires are a real mystery, and blood-suckers, and we ought to kill them all, and that’s what we’re doing in The Church, and we’re all in agreement about it and if you try and make any of us wrong, either jointly or severally, we’ll show you who’s boss, oh yes we will, you stinking SP. You probably think elementary school mathematics is actually still important! Ha, ha! And by the way, “suppressive personality” doesn’t necessarily have to refer to an SP – it can be a person who is acting in a suppressive manner, see? I hope you do see that, because otherwise you’re not in agreement, not at all, and we’ll have to send you to Ethics and Sec Check you to find your overts, and none of “us” will talk to you, or associate with you, so you become a “non-person”, which LRH didn’t really write about, but the RFP is full of them, so deduce for yourself what their case level is. We can’t pull your fingernails, or we would, I assure you, until you get your stupid ass into line and into agreement with me, because we’re sitting on the tech now, and we’re now rightfully the BMOCs we always knew we were, and you have to do what we say – or is all this too complicated for you to grasp?”

  389. Calvin: Just for further clarity — it’s not buddhism I am struggling with but simply one center “led” by a couple of people who I feel are not following core tenets.

    Dean’s comment above regarding — walk away from any group one is uncomfortable with is excellent. But first I had to make sure that the discomfort wasn’t as a result of my own rough edges …

    Takes discriminating awareness.


  390. You wrote: “He later states that only 2 1/2 % are truly dangerous. But it is the other 17 1/2 % of that 20% are the “fertile ground” for the chaos the SP breeds, in my view of what LRH wrote. The 17 1/2 % are the cheerleaders, the ready and willing “koolaid drinkers” who jump on the suppressive bandwagon and don’t want to let go of it.” The mistake is the ommission “2 1/2% OF THIS 20 percent” (block capitals added). 2 1/2% 0f 20% is one-half of one percent. Then 17 1/2% of that 20% is 3.5% (rounded). My beef is not just with you – I keep hearing this “2 1/2% of the population” which is not what is written there. I could be a Hare Krishna with no interest at all in Scn, and I could think SP’s are a figment of an imagination, but I could still be offended by the absence of either the ability to do simple multiplication, or the absence of trying to assimilate what Hubbard wrote. Two and one-half percent of 20% is not 2 1/2%. The error is a multiple of five. Hubbard wrote in the reference cited that one-half of one percent of the population is truly dangerous. My own observation over the years indicates that about one in every 200 people may indeed be an SP. My number may be a bit high, in my opinion. I do know that a social personality is not “suddenly discovered to be an SP”, and I do see that slipping up once or twice hear or there on some obscure number that requires a bit of math can make it seem like there are more SP’s than there actually are, present on any scene, which is one of the things an SP hopes to accomplish to spread more confusion and fear. An SP is indeed dangerous enough, and I see no reason to let a slip in mathematics magnify the number of SPs.

  391. I was being sarcastic. You don’t get it and I’m not wasting any more time with you.

  392. You might be quite correct. I wasn’t there (that I remember), nor have I been to Tibet.

    I’m sure there are accounts of Tibet that have glorified it – unduly.

    It appears that what is rife in the world, buddhist or otherwise, is some “need” to wield power over others – to be “more than” ones neighbor.

    Seems a tough nut to crack and starts at home. 🙂


  393. Ahhhh Alex — I still love you 🙂

    Even if you did think that good-looking nut job was a saint 🙂 🙂


  394. BTW — I keep referring to Bill Franks as good looking NOT because I thought he was (I thought he was rather insipid looking) but because HE THOUGHT he was


  395. Sapere Aude


    Me thinks you but strive to see the basic good in all of us. I personally could never reconcile, what I had witnessed and knew of Bill Franks and, the fact that I was informed he was approved as ED Int and posted for life by LRH. Later I decided the posting must have been based upon false data. Even his defending of the mission holders was probably due to other intended uses of the mission network to support him.

    If I remember correctly, you were replaced as CO EUS by Bess Knauerhause (spelling?). You lived in the era of a grand expanding world of orgs and missions, making auditors and auditing – when we listened to the sound of the music “We’re moving in!” Those days are so distant and different than the goose stepping march of Scn, Inc that we see now. That aberration within the group will see it’s time draw to an end also.

  396. The reason I make a “big deal” out of this is not fixation on math, or to make someone look stupid. It seems obvious to me that fudging one thing leads to fudging another, and there you have your frog in boiling water, boiling to death, but unconcerned because he didn’t notice. The English interpretation of what Hubbard wrote is 0.5%, one out of 200.

  397. Sapere Aude

    You speak of the true facts. An unusual, and in the end devastating, solution to carry out the targets.

    “Ideal Scene: All false and secret files of the nations of operating areas brought to view and legally expunged…” Covert means were used to confirm and verify that “ALL” files had been obtained. It became a large many headed monster and ultimately a cluster-f…

    FOI (Freedom of Information Act) requests for records from government agency A could result in 50 pages. A request to agency B could have 5 pages that showed they had been cc’d to agency A that weren’t included in the response from A. Cross filing was showing where and what agencies were hiding documents and not being forthcoming. B1 then was to verify when all files. The fixation on the word “all” and the proof to verify when this target was done was the crack in the dike. We all know what happened from there.

    As you so well stated it: “Not very OT, not very heroic, sad to say. History now.”

    And I would add that history, 20, 50 or more years from now, will have more of the true data about what has occurred in and with Scn, Inc. As more truth is known, more false data blown, more suppression exposed and removed from the lines we shall see a greater return of the basic concepts and actions. Making auditors, auditing to remove case (additives to the basic beingness of all of us) – all to move us along the line of the honest purposes and goodness of us as a being. That is/was the dreams and aspirations that we engaged in this game for.

  398. Freedom Fighter

    I also disagree that the US is a fascist state … yet. Here’s a video that provides a good description of the different forms of government:

  399. Hey Alex. I read Mein kampf as well. So what. And Sibersky and Capt Bill being thrown under the bus as well. No need for this. LRH said some high class bastards can do some high class work. FLB was full of characters, some nice, some not so nice. I am just thankful I have nothing to do with any of it. Reviewing the past has value, but I am not going to disparage anyone in particular. And its one thing to chronicle, another to judge.

  400. Sorry guys, have been busy with life, will get back hopefuly this weekend.
    Warm Regards,

  401. I’ve been reading various stuff about morality and social engineering recently so bear that in mind. It seems most people just want to get on with working, earning money, raising family and having some fun on the weekend. They’re happy as long as they are catered to, their is food in the shops, electricit, gas and water and will just get on and do as they’re told until something happens which they can’t tolerate. The level of discomfort they will tolerate varies according to the social, economic and political environment. Neo-conservatism seeks to make these and everyone else more compliant, more tolerant and less unruly by providing something to be afraid of (terrorism) and then taking on the role of protector – see film V for Vendetta.

    Then there are those who are seeking answers and “want to make a difference”. Such people generally think more about life and what it means and are usually well informed. They are prone however to varying degrees to following leaders, which is anyone who can convince them they have the answers they want and provide them with a role in which they can help make a difference. We are social animals and so such behaviour is expected according to evolution. There can be too many leaders.

    Obviously there are leaders, good and bad.

    The problem appears IMHO is the other two groups fail to question the leaders often enough. It’s normal not to question because society would fall apart if everyone kept asking why and refusing to do something without a good reason but we are far to ready to just follow along especially if questioning something could make or lives harder.

    I suggested a while back that we have the technology to provide safe and accountable electronic voting. With electronic voting holding referendums would be very easy. As such we could do away with party politics and have the public vote more on the issues and what should be done. The politicians would have to justify their positions to the people and the people would decide which idea sounds best. Of course there was a lot of negative publicity about dangerous and insecure electronic voting shortly there after. This was odd because the technology I was refering to was also intended by the Government to introduce “nice safe and secure ID cards” which could be used to monitor our lives. The ID card scheme was killed off by the Government when they were elected in to power as it was one of their weasel promises. Everyone forgets the same party was pro-ID cards 20 years previous.

  402. Chuin,
    I like very much what you have to say here. Truth is so simple.
    I remember, when I was in the Sea Org in the mid 70’s, Mary Sue Hubbard sent us a telex each time the new Destroyer Series book came out. She was a big fan. 🙂

  403. oops, meant Chiun 🙂

  404. Not that I am privy to any inside information on Mark’s new book, but the biggest falsehood the Church of Black Scientology operates on is Darth Midget’s false claim that Ron Hubbard choose him to take command of Scientology before he died.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  405. OK Gern.

    How about this idea: communication is the interchange of particles across a distance. That’s what we’re doing. Using a game analogy and the tossing of say a ball back and forth, you toss a ball over, someone, say me in this example gets the ball and on my toss back, I put a little “stuff” on it, just for interst’s sake. You know, instead of lobbing it back, I put a li’l oomph in it. Smack, it hits the glove. A little “pepper” my old coaches would say.

    You, sensing the “pep”, and perhaps being more comfortable with a less velocitious (made ‘er up just now) ball toss, say “hey, not so fast”. Me, liking a li’l pepper in certain cases, and figuring you can handle it, don’t take any off, but with your “hey, not so fast” toss, decide to instead of slowing it down, make it a little more obvious what the course of this here ball is going to take so you can up your speed, rather than slowing the game down. Now we’re both in this game aren’t we. I like a little “stuff”, for interest, you like what you may be used to, or have some other consideration about velocity. Does that mean I can’t confront you? Or does it mean something like, pick up the game, increase your “Governor” (see 8-80 and the R&D Vols), and with the speed of particle increasing, you can experience a higher randomity and well, I personally consider that OK. Of course, if it really rattles you, I won’t guarantee I’ll toss any different, but I’ll move along. Keeping an eye on you that you get over the sore palm.

    Today you’ve addressed, somewhat, the “troll” issue of the past thread. That’s a good thing, I think. Soak your hand. It’ll be OK.

  406. Chris the Aussie, now Chris Montogomery, no longer suping the BC because she was married to a non SO guy and Miscavige came out with a new policy that SO members could not be married to non SO. She protested and got declared.

    From what I’ve heard the BC at ASHO is a shadow of what it was when Chris was there.

  407. Great series of posts, here. This has cleared up so much confusion created by the rumor line. Thank you all, for contributing so much previously omitted data.

  408. Alex, I’m in total agreement with what the other Bill Franks detractors are saying here. Just to add to the mystery of why a “Scientologist” might have “an open, well thumbed copy of Hitler’s Mein Kampf”:
    As an underling to Franks when he was CO LA Org in 1973 and a “product conference” regular, I observed him presiding over the daily meeting with what appeared to be a German lugar pistol ready to hand on his desk. I’ve got lots of other damning observations about the man but I think what others have noted here is sufficient to dead agent him.

  409. Dear Carch,

    I am tempted to say, “You may be a pissed off as you like, but you are full of shit”, however, the problem may be that we are quoting different sources, so I will post up the link and quote in full.

    The quote is from LRH’s essay/bulletin “The Antisocial Personality”, and here is what it actually says:

    “There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes which cause about 20 percent of a race to oppose violently any betterment activity or group. Such people are known to have antisocial tendencies.

    When the legal or political structure of a country becomes such as to favor such personalities in positions of trust, then all the civilizing organizations of the country become suppressed and a barbarism of criminality and economic duress ensues.

    Crime and criminal acts are perpetuated by antisocial personalities. Inmates of institutions commonly trace their state back to contact with such personalities.

    Thus, in the fields of government, police activities and mental health, to name a few, we see that it is important to be able to detect and isolate this personality type so as to protect society and individuals from the destructive consequences attendant upon letting such have free rein to injure others.

    As they only comprise 20 percent of the population and as only 2½ percent are truly dangerous, we see that with a very small amount of effort we could considerably better the state of society.”

    As you and everyone else who reads this blog can plainly see, nowhere does LRH say it is “2 1/2% of the 20%, who are truly dangerous”.

    (Also issued as HCOB, 27 Sept. 66, same title)

    Carcha, either you are misquoting this important, basic and fundamental source, or you are looking at a different edition which says something different from the sources I am quoting, or you are misinterpreting it and fudging the numbers yourself. I have the books, as well as finding these bulletins online, and they all appear to say what I have posted above.

    You posted this about me: “The above referenced article is the one you
    are pretending to quote from and pretending to understand and pretending to interpret for everyone who reads here.”

    Well, one of us is apparently pretending big-time, but I am not at all sure it is me. In the meantime, I think I know why your eyes appear brown.

  410. Anytime.

  411. Carch, see my reply above. It appears that you are the one who is fudging and misquoting. Perhaps that accounts for your “hooplah-blooblah”, as Rabbit might say.

  412. I don’t even know where to start debunking that hog slop, but let me just say that it’s only true to the degree that there are corrupt and criminal actors in this country who attempt to exercise undue influence over our elected leaders, our institutions, and our governmental bureaucracy.

    Such people seek to control our government through force, threat, trickery, and bribes in order to enrich or aggrandize themselves and their cohorts. Naturally, they must break our laws, trample our traditions and established protocols, and violate the spirit and the letter of our Constitution to achieve their degraded aims.

    It’s a problem that has afflicted nation states from time immemorial, and lo and behold, religious institutions too, as is being chronicled on this blog.

  413. Tony DePhillips


  414. I might note, there is one small difference in various editions I have seen: In some of the early issues, the word “perpetuated” is used instead of the word “perpetrated”, in the sentence which says “Crime and criminal acts are perpetuated by antisocial personalities.”

    I believe this was later corrected from “perpetuated” to “perpetrated” and that is how it now stands in The Scientology Handbook.

  415. …brought Alan Walters in to lecture and brief the FEBC students…

    Is this the same Alan Walters who left the church and founded ‘Knowledgism’?

  416. …its one thing to chronicle, another to judge.

    I reserve the right to judge any person, activity, or thing, and I won’t apologize for doing so. Contrary to popular group-think, there is such a thing as right and wrong.

  417. JF, reading Mein Kampf and applying it to your life are 2 different things.

  418. Tony DePhillips

    I think Jim has the right to say what ever he wants. A person can fluctuate on the tone scale. If a person on this blog says too much that is off the wall then they sort of dig their own grave and will have to dig themselves out.
    I myself never wanted to acheive the state of blissful nirvana who only communicates from lofty peace. That is not the OT state I was trying to reach. In fact I think some of these guys who pretend they are all Zenned out are actually somewhat pretenders.

  419. Alex Castillo


    I was there too during the L1 witch hunt, not only that, I was sent to FOLO WUS as mission I/C along with an Auditor as sec checker. In less than a week the entire Management Bu had been dismantled by way of “finding” that most of them were “SP”!! I had my doubts but I was not Tech triained and assumed the sec checker knew what she was doing. At the time of these events Bess Sullivan was the LRH Comm WUS, she thought there was something not quite right, so somehow she got my sec checker sec checked and guess what? The sec checker for my mission was “found” to be a List Oner. Later the CMO sec checked Bess Sullivan sec checker and lo and behold, the CMO sec checker ” found” that Bess’s sec checker was an “SP”. Enough to make your head spin!! In the end I don’t know what happened after I went back to Flag but did notice that my mission wasn’t rated at all, as all my missions had been previously.

    Year after I left and even today I look back at that trip and if it wasn’t so sad I would laugh my head off. You should have seen me trying to explain to a bunch of good intentioned people that they were SPs and were heading for the PAC RPF. Yuk! I still feel guilty for being stupid and screwing up the lives of at least 10 people.


  420. Path of Buddha

    “On the invite to Buddhism, I’m a little puzzled. You post here on Marty’s “ecumenical” blog and in the last couple of your posts you’ve taken to what I would call “Scn bashing”. Odd that. Now you proselytize?”

    It is not part of Theravada to proselytize. If you felt that, it was a slip and I am off policy. I had to somehow respond to you and that was the best
    at the moment.
    You probably have not followed all of my posts so you think I am bashing scientology. Well, I made it perfectly clear that scientology auditing on the lower bridge is an excellent technological development.
    I support the independent movement for that reason. The upper bridge in scientology is blocked and I have heard that from many. In my opinion,
    the independent movement has a real mess to clean up here with all that Miscavige has done. Jim, I really do understand what Ron Hubbard said on OT8. You are feeling it and that is good.
    Much loving-kindness,
    George M. White
    PS As the Buddha said to Upali, please go back to your teacher Mahavira. So I say please stay with you teacher Ron Hubbard..

  421. Gern,
    I don’t “believe” the DM “church” is applying Black Scientology; I’ve witnessed it, I’m working to clean it up, it is there, it is being done and it IS reversed Scientology.

    I posted a reference above, 9 June 60, THE BASIC ASSUMPTIONS OF SCIENTOLOGY VERSUS OVERTS. The fact is DM is bltly reversing the exact technology described in this issue on NOTs Pre OTs. This is egregious Black Scientology.

    There’s no way to gloss over this, to justify it, to paint it as something other than exactly what it is: intentional corruption of Scientology tech to the detriment of others.

    Three swing FNs are suppressive, and there’s no way to gloss over that. Disconnection as practiced by DM is suppressive. Reverse Scientology.

    You get out here, start to do some interviews on some of these people, and you will see what has been done. Perhaps that will spark some fire in you and this reasonable bullshit, theetie wheetie attitude to this suppressive BLACK Scientology might become a little more real as you get your confront up. Then you can pitch in and help me and those many others as we work to correct it.

  422. Tony DePhillips

    Gern you’re an asshole. How about that?

  423. yes

  424. Path of Buddha

    This is true except in one instance where he said that the Buddha ‘enslaved beings’ I wish I had the exact reference but it is on one of the first tapes my wife and opened when we received the “Golden Age” discs.
    Maybe Miscavige implanted it.
    Personally, I am at peace with Ron for this slip. After a great deal of research and meditation, I let it all go. It helped a great deal because I put it all in perspective.

    May all enslaved beings be well and happy!
    George M. White

    PS Jim Logan if you see this post, it is important data.

  425. Ronnie, with all due respect, my feelings on making judgements of other people comes from a very different place than your reference to popular group think.

  426. Max, I knew Bill Franks only in passing. I am neither a fan or detractor. But i can see how readily a mob can and how easily it is to cut someone to ribbons. I am a fan of neither.

  427. Hey George,
    I think you are utterly clueless on what OT 8 actually is because frankly what you got wasn’t even vaguely LRH’s material. You have acknowledged you do not understand basic Scientology principles, several times now, the latest being the concept of “fatih”.

    The “ego” is coming through here, at around 1.1, at least socially, and that’s an outpoint, since that’s what is addressed directly with LRH’s Upper Bridge, and apparently is SUPPOSED to be addressed by ANY form of Buddhism. So I can tell immediately you have MU’s on your practice in that field as well as Scientology.

    And you are without any question, Scn bashing and LRH bashing, AND proselytizing. Gobbing it over with this “bless you” stuff don’t change it.

    Knock it off.

  428. Alex Castillo

    Thank you for your kind words.

    I was CO FLEUS twice, once when I did and eval in the mid 70s and had to fire myself on mission to handle and became t/CO until I found a CO,
    the second time CO CMO Int John Nelson sent me and my ex Maude on Garrison, at the same time whem Mo Samuels became the CO CMO EUS, along with a bunch of young vicious girls. The first mission was a complete success, the second was a disaster. The good old days…:))


  429. I’ve done RPEC on people around a hundred times or so, to very good result. I would say that the state people find themselves now is a present time condition, not a past unhandled one. Although if they aren’t able to apply conditions or don’t like them they could look into doing RPEC. I like that tech very much and have had great wins with it personally.

  430. I’ll second that Mike. It is the elephant in the room and so obvious that most look around it while trying to locate their glass of Koolaid.

    After studying LRH (esp. KSW) one would not be hard pressed to know that he would NEVER leave the legacy of his tech to one person.

  431. Chuck,good advice and nicely stated;
    “Lead by good example”
    We reap what we sow.
    And i think your in for a surprise on the future lives. Can’t say if it will be a nice surprise or not. But i hope so.

  432. Jim I would love to have digital. can I buy from you?

  433. Really? Just let me know whenever you’re ready to finfish the comm cycle you started.

  434. Gern, The theme of the blog is “Moving On Up a Little Higher”. Not, “Smack somebody down a little lower”. There is a theme and a purpose to this blog and I think you are in harmony with that. I do not see you as “theetie wheetie’ or “victimy” for suggesting that people treat others as they themselves would wan to be treated. Anyone that has done a few grades should be able to figure that out. You reap what you sow. It is a truth. If you are theetie wheetie, I am too. You look around this theatre and you see who is really surviving and who has really made it and it is the people that treat others as they themselves would want to be treated. I didn’t get into Scientology to slide back to a place pre Christianity. Different people have different purposes. Many people are here communicating in protest read about abuse. I think that is a good thing. And I think Marty has made a better life for the people on the inside because of it. It is his purpose to make a better world. And we come to contribute to that motion. Reminding people of that is not a bad thing. I hear you and I am on the same page. We are gathered here to make a better world and help one another. That should be visible.

  435. Gern – pardon the bluntness but wake up – CofS applies Black Scientology all day every day. They F*** PCs up on purpose as a matter of practice.
    When you can confront this evil then you can find an independent than can unf*** you if they have done this to you

  436. I’m hanging with Marvin. That is the state of OT I was trying to reach.

  437. Every organisation that fails, is failing because of the flaw in the organisation itself. I learned that from LRH. Considering the current state of Scn Inc under mad generalissimo DM, you could say it is failing.
    The flaw in my opinion could be the fact that Scn, although a religious philosophy, has always being run like a military/naval operation, ‘a tight ship’. Which, to me, sounds like a contradictio in terminis. I have never understood why a peaceful religious philosophy should need an ‘intelligence bureau’, or an ‘enemy’ (psychology) and staffmembers who are drilled and punished like soldiers. It seems to me that Scn has always been at war, or at a crusade somehow. A lot of parallels with the history e.g. of the Roman Catholic Church, or any other monotheistic religion for that matter.
    Is that the culture of Scn? A militaristic culture?

  438. One further thought – if you are correct that LRH meant “2 1/2% of 20%”, which equals .05%, that doesn’t alter the original estimate of 20% who have “antisocial tendencies”, and that still leaves 19.5 % as the “fertile ground” for the active, thoroughly suppressive person to muster.

    A point here is that LRH did not say how many of the antisocial “tendencies and characteristics” any of the 20% actually embody. Is it 5? 7? 10 or 11? Just that they had these and related “mental attitudes”.

    I do agree with you, Carcha, that this is important data and we need to be clear as possible about it.

  439. Thank you Alex for providing this link. It is a treasured find in my research quest. It helped me better understand what happened in those years. Bill was quite forthright while relating this story.

  440. I agree with you Ronnie…the US of A is not a Facist state……yet. However, it is well on its way to becomming one. The Founders of the nation enacted no provision for Congress to abdigate its powers and responsibilities to Federal bureacracies with the power to unilaterally promulgate and enforce “regulations” which have the force of law upon the citizenry. In fact, the federal government was set up to have very little sovereignty or impact over individuals, and this is obviously no longer the case.

  441. Marty, an excellent post. The comments and discourse’s are so interesting and educational. Thanks for providing another opportunity to look and learn, along with few laughs.

  442. The Virus Meme

    Interesting. I have been saying for years that Scientology is a virus that infects people in particular ways, I see the Virus meme has spilled over into your universe, but has mutated. 🙂

    I guess we disagree on the Source Code……

  443. EJ, it seems to me A-E are just common sense and what a person likely does anyway upon discovering he was mistakenly supporting a group or activity that was misrepresenting itself as good, constructive, and social, when it was actually destructive and antisocial.

    The A-E steps as written by LRH just analyze the natural process a person goes through from realizing the true situation within himself(actuality), through to communicating with others about it to make it a reality.

  444. It is not “a group” as a generality that is going to do the A-E steps. It is individuals who wake up to what they have been participating in and realize they don’t want to be part of it.

  445. It makes sense to me that at the top of the scale a being IS faith. Isn’t that what Tone 40 is? Complete certainty that one’s intention will carry through?

  446. In my view, Buddha was that, he emanated that, and the result was people in his presence destimulated and became more amenable to Reason.

  447. Jim,
    I was Buddha on the photos of the old WIS book. 🙂

  448. Iamvalkov – Two editions of the book “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” state as you have quoted but with this extremely notable exception: “As they only comprise 20 percent of the population and as only 2 1/2 percent of this 20 percent are truly dangerous ….” HCOB 27 Sept 1966 also states as above, “… as only 2 1/2 percent of this 20 percent ….”

    Anyone else is perfectly free to check their sources and compare. If indeed what you’ve quoted above is stated that way online, it is a matter more serious than would be your misduplication through not-is-ness. Look in your copy of ISE or red vols and check to make sure you’re right.


  449. To Jim Logan

    Jim, it’s not a conspiracy theory. There was no such theory when I first listened to RJ38. I just had this feeling : it’s not LRH.
    I repeat : there was no black PR or any shit like that. It was straight perception, and some other people had the same perception
    Voice was similar but I felt it’s not him. It was not LRH from what I perceived. Just straight perception, first time the tape was ever played.
    This Proof is the founding document which gives power to DM. It’s very strange with this computer stuff, and Ron describing the stats. Never ever he did that before.
    The voice is cold, no ARC, no comm lag. Very serious. If you compare to RJ 67, 16 years before, the voice in RJ 38 is younger. No problem with breath, when there was slightly in 67.
    And there is another outpoint that none can see because it’s an omission.
    Something which should have been there and which is not.
    LRH was in the video business, how comes he didn’t appear on a video? Just to handle people’s doubts.
    Also, splinters were blossoming all around. LRH knew so well David Mayo, why not a phone call to clear the matter?
    It’s stuffed with outpoints.
    You studied the Data series, me too, and you know so well LRH. Please do me a favour and listen to RJ38, and tell me if you really think that this is really LRH speaking.
    If you have data that I don’t have, please let me know. I have been sitting on this question ever since 1984.
    I don’t have any theory, and I don’t have any data, I just have had a straight perception which has troubled me ever since.
    For me it was pervasion.
    Please listen to RJ 38 in a new unit of time.
    Imagine what it would mean if this tape was really a forgery.

  450. I know better

    Ya know what Mike, I think that is too obvious. I can’t help but wonder if we all aren’t going to be surprised when we see what that Falsehood is. The midget is a falsehood but is it THE falsehood?

  451. Very well said Dean.

  452. You ain’t no Lucifer but you are funny as hell, listening to you, Tiziano Lugli and Joy Graysen go into your impromptu comedy routine at that party had me laughing and releasing endorphins till 2 am, finally fell asleep only to be wide awake at 6 am (on 2nd thought for that maybe you are a Lucifer) LOL, that kind of stuff you have to pay for at an Improv. Cheers and good travels to Canada.

  453. I remember “not trusting” anyone, especially when it comes to money. Now, does that make me a criminal with money? NO, it makes me responsible for it. And I made a lot of it WAY BEFORE I got involved with the Cult that is Scientology today. I would question everything and the staff would oblige. Then, I studied the Chart in Science of Survival. I remember thinking “trust” is at the top of the tone scale as an attribute. I changed my mind and thought I need to “TRUST” this Organization, because I don’t want to be LOW TONED. This is when I started to give up “being me” and started being a DM-BOT. It did not work for long. Pretty soon I started to question the Ideal Org’s. It made absolutely NO FINANCIAL sense at all for the Organization to purchase 40-60K sq.ft. buildings when the one they were using was virtually empty. The staff were living in poverty – cleaning houses and selling vitamins on the side, the die-hards had no homes they owned and their credit cards were maxed from donations to the building or IAS, the parking lot looked like a “scrap yard” – it was embarrassing to think this is the Church that helps people “improve conditions”?, they had no money and were constantly moving around from post to post – never having anything, especially new people to “help”.

    I started to question and stopped giving donos to anything years ago. Of course, I am “personna non grata” but that is okay. I know how to make money and keep it. They did not bankrupt me but they bankrupt virtually 99.9% of the staff and public. It is a sad state of affairs and I hope the ship sinks quickly so the staff can get out while they still have a little life left in them.

    They tried to take my sanity but I would not let them have it. Now that I am out – OMG – I can’t believe I was ever in.

    It is a totally criminal Organization – do the staff and SO members know this? Covert invalidation is the social intercourse of the SP Organization and the Church of Scientology specializes in this as well as our government.

    Obama says – the private sector is doing good – when it is not.
    Slappy McSavage says – 8,000,000 members – fastest growing religion in the world – when it is shrinking weekly.

    Just look at the similarities between the two Organizations!

  454. Sapere,
    A pleasure to have had this conversation with you.

    I wholeheartedly share the predictions and postulates you put forth in your last paragraph.

    À bientôt.


  455. Name That Tune

    Same at FCDC in 75 & 76 — Bill Franks tried to control through invalidation and intimidation, strutted around in gestapo boots and was out 2D with Div 6 Irene G (affair when married to Jeannie (then F.)

  456. You’ve got that right, Mr. Logan.
    And when you have audited twenty or more of the people exposed to that black crap at the so-called mecca of technical perfection, Flag, and you see first hand the gross auditing errors, you will totally cease to be “reasonable” about the out-points.
    Calculated, deliberate, sadistic, criminal…alteration of the tech. Just because many of the auditors there are “good people,” just because one could argue they have been duped, does not alter the fact that in many cases their ignorance or callous disregard for the actual intention of auditing is doing 180 reverse scientology.
    Liberating a spirit is liberating a spirit. Implanting a spirit is implanting a spirit. Period.

  457. I tried to make my way through this thread but found the entire thing very peculiar. I guess I am missing the context. You guys all seem to be having lots of fun with yourselves. Do you guys consider yourselves independents? That might explain it. Bill Franks Have fun

  458. That is the truth. The first time I went exterior was when I heard this song. And the first thought I had was, “I want to be where this guy is at”.
    As a being, I want to be where this guy is at.

  459. Ronnie Bell

    With all due respect, JF, being unwilling to judge people is what got the church in the mess it’s in today. I don’t know what your understanding of the term is, but for me, it’s simply observing things in life, and deciding for oneself where those things, acts, events, intentions, agreements, groups, or individuals reside, in relation to survival/non-survival across the dynamics.

    Ergo, I use judgement, and will continue to do so.

  460. Mike Hobson

    Oh, really ? Of course you have neither documents or witnesses to back that up.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  461. Ronnie Bell

    I knew Bill Franks only in passing. I am neither a fan or detractor.

    Oh that’s right….you don’t ‘judge’ people. Even when they habitually smash others around them into little bits and pieces. How very lofty of you.

  462. Ronnie Bell

    Bill was quite forthright while relating this story.

    Liz, I suggest you start at Alex’s first post about Bill Franks and read forward. Bill Franks spewed a lot of unsubstantiated rumor and innuendo in that interview. He also accused LRH of ordering others to murder, without providing a single shred of evidence to back it up.

    In short, his interview was a hit piece on LRH and Scientology. It matters little that he happens to agree with us about Miscavige.

  463. Sapere Aude

    Alex – “The first mission was a complete success, the second was a disaster. The good old days…:))”

    To think that any past “disaster” is now the “good old days” – just shows how far south things have gone. From a data series point of view – totally different ideal scene considered, and the gradient brilliant use of existing resources to get there….

    Proud to have served at the time of giants in this endeavor. Thanks Alex for all you did, it has not been all forgotten or buried beneath the lies.

  464. Ronnie Bell

    Interesting. Something tells me you’re not the real Bill Franks. Not Nazi enough. Nice try, though.

  465. You have a good point about potentially using A-E.

    It seems the “tricky part” is the fact that when we “joined” the CofS, we tried to join something good, at least we felt we were joining a group that was going to uphold the various principles put out by the founder, the principles that seemed right and good to us. However, the thing, the group, the CofS, morphed into something else. Whether it came in clear stages or not, got worse at certain points, isn’t even important so much as the fact that what we thought we joined either changed into something else or else showed its true colors to be something other than what we granted allegiance to.

    So, maybe A-E is a good way, it could be a good way, if a person felt (what is true for YOU) that they went into the valence of the SP, became SP, by “waking up” and realizing that all their help to this group turned out to be empowering a suppressive group and thus suppressing others.

    Another way could be just applying whatever condition one is in, and work on up the conditions.

  466. 🙂

  467. LRon Hubbard wrote the policy. At that time, he clearly did not envision the organization becoming suppressive. So he did not write a separate policy for that occurence. Seems like this is an entirely new scenario where he gave no clearly defined policy. So we, (indidually, each one) has to do the best we can to think with the “what would LRH do” and what kind of policy may cover this. That’s clearly all we can do, isn’t it?

  468. I am always sorry to see such arguements on this blog become heated, inflamatory and downright unfriendly.
    I hope that we could agreeably disagree. One way is to realize what we agree about, and not be ready to “kill the other guy” for not agreeing with us. THe guideline is: LRH said if it is true for you, it is true for you. Well, that’s the answer to everything frankly, so if you think like EJ, you’re right, and if you think like Thoughtful, you are also right. It’s not a wrong/right thing, it’s a true/not true thing, like the guideline says. The question is how will we treat one another if our truth is not the other person’s truth.

  469. Max, what makes you think Bill Franks was *ever* a Scientologist in truth ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  470. Who is L.R.H.? Capable of being anything or anyone. Maybe there was not one L.R.H. at all. I am not the same person I was six months ago. Or even a week ago. Over time Hubbard changed. Just like over time everyone changes. A Hubbard people knew in 1942 is not the same Hubbard people knew in 1985. And really, who he was does not matter to me. He offered up ideas. Most of those ideas were powerful magic. Magic is about forces and conditions. Conditions is at CLEAR on the awareness characteristics. Conditions in the ethics book are formulas. In every way part and parcel with Magic. For me, it is not about who or what Hubbard was, it was about the magic. But if you bumped into a different Hubbard later up the line, it happened. If you sensed a change, there was one. The man changed. That happens. So maybe you both are right in your own way. It was the same body, a different man.

  471. That’s a good goal.

  472. I don’t like Mystery Sandwiches. Kindly say what you mean, instead of this come-on bullshit.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  473. Personally I would like to thank Marty, Mike, Steve Hall, Jim and other major players that are actively doing things to put in dm’s ethics and deliver the tech.
    It’s fine to have open comm lines. But people should be aware of OSA tactics and believe me they can be very 1.1.
    Do you think that Scientology is trying to put people onto this blog to stir things up?
    If so, what tactics do you think they would use? Overt action?? Unlikely.
    Very covert. Confront of evil.
    These guys have taken some ruthless 3-P and heavy personal attacks. They deserve some protection.

  474. Bill, quite possibly you’re missing way more than the context here.

    I’ll answer for myself: Yes, I consider myself an independent, and yes, we all do have a lot of fun here communicating on this blog, moving on the tone scale. What that explains to me is that we’re practicing some basic real Scientology, but perhaps such a concept is and always was beyond your ability to understand.

    I suggest you take your Luger, your Mein Kampf and your vitriolic lies about LRH and slither back under your rock. Maybe we’ll be able to repair you later.

    Oh, and my husband says sorry he wasn’t able to goose-step to your insane FEBC rules in 1981…….but I guess you knew that since you blew shortly after.

  475. Path of Buddha

    You have very strong viewpoints. You might try letting go a little bit.
    I really like “Knock it off” at the end, it indicates you might be able to stop.
    Jim, you really need to take a closer look at scientology as you interpret it.
    I think you will find that the OT8 material is real. You are one of the last
    to see it.

    May you continue to be well and happy!
    George M. White

  476. Yes, I didn’t mean to invalidate by ignoring your major original point, or to attack you personally – I just get ticked off when I see this “2 1/2%” thrown around, when the ISE reference indicates 0.5% or one-half of one percent. An SP is a very distinct state of being which apparently involves a very long string of major overts, and this discovery alone is ground-breaking. It should NOT be so heartlessly and utterly wasted as it is, “declaring” social personalities right and left in wholesale manner to satisfy abberated personal vanities.

    It is a difficult area to confront, and I somehow sense more than just one or two are avoiding facts – that’s what I want to invalidate: the distortion and complacency.

  477. That is exactly right.

  478. I am not the same person with my kids as the person I am when I am is session with an auditor. I am not the same person with my husband as I am when I am at the office haggling. People also change as they change hats. Hubbard was a hacker. He hacked into operating system built with a lot of black magic. But his brilliance was as a hacker. He hacked into the operating system of life. And that is what we are doing in Scientology. Hacking through operating systems and universes. Hacking through walls. hacking through illusion. Hacking through lies. Hacking through P.R.. We are all a lot of hackers.

  479. Betsy,
    Thanks beautiful 🙂
    I’ll see you and Mike when I get back this way.

  480. “Before I would permit you to believe that the overt-withhold mechanism was a total way of life, I would point out that it applies only to a strata of existence and that it stems from failures to help.

    “The theory that what you do to others will then happen to you is a punishment control mechanism peculiar to this universe. It derives from a deteriorated willingness to duplicate.”

    “You will not always have to be careful not to bump Joe. It would be a horrible universe indeed if O-W was its senior law, for one could then never do anything.

    “Fortunately, it drops out, both as a governing law and a necessity in life.”

  481. “An overt recoils upon one because one is already in a valence similar to that of the being against whom the overt is leveled.

    “The mechanism is exposed. And as it is exposed, we find it is not needed since a being without valences is basically good. Only a being with valences has his overts recoil upon him. Only a being with valences commits overts harmful to others as he is behaving as he supposes the “evil” valence would behave but as no unvalenced being does.”

  482. Li'll bit of stuff

    T.O. Absolutely with you, completely on this one!
    Gern, perhaps unwittingly, was making some noises
    that were not in keeping with MOUALH, and likely
    set off some alarm bells! I’m sure you recall I did
    exactly the same thing around 6 months ago!

    I still appreciate the fact that you saw then, as now,
    the necessity to intervene on the side of fairness,
    and applaud you for your forthrightness in doing so.

    Marty, himself, though very occasionally rattled, has
    demonstrated that one can just take it all on the chin,
    so to speak, as has Ronnie Bell and others. At the
    end of the day, we’d all be at the bottom of the tone
    scale …….if we took every thing too seriously, ie
    becoming Miscavigeoholics!!!!

    What I’m trying to say here, is, we need to up our
    innate OR acquired ability to laugh off, or reject, that
    which offends us, in order to toughen up against
    the “stuff” that seemingly undermines us.
    ………….GOOD OL’ TR-O (BULLBAITED,) yes?……..

    Once again, I must stress that the area of “suspicion”
    seems to create the most distress, here on the blog,
    and affects people to varying degrees.”Coming out” still doesn’t necessarily put a stop to it, and this is
    definitely a legacy of MISCAVOLOGY, IMHO!

    Finally, perhaps a pre-emptive handling, or
    ” Guidelines for the uninitiated ” posted boldly for
    the benefit of those who might otherwise become
    fair game to the “attack-dog” fringe, who are horribly
    short in the “granting of beingness” dept. may go
    a long way to creating the ARC, of which we’re capable.

    ML, Calvin.

  483. And what is Marty’s real crime? He has hacked into the Church of Scientology and made it’s operating system public. He is good at what Hubbard was good at. Only Marty had detected the virus. DM is a virus in this system. I am not implying he is the only one. When Hubbard hacked into the operating system of life, virus’ followed. He only tried to write a new program for an new operating system. There are many people that have vested interests in the system. Keeping people blind. Keeping people out of the know. Keeping the system going. Those of here just liked the new program. And I don’t mean the programs Miscavige has been writing, which become virus’.

  484. RD,
    Above are a couple of posts, one by morelivesthanacat, and a very good one by Sinar that give the actual background for this RJ. Please look those over.

    I’m not sure, but it sounds to me like you got that DM was chosen by LRH, somehow or other communicated by this tape.

    That is simply not true, and I have never seen or heard anything remotely suggesting that save what DM himslef has put out in his far fetched websites.

    I remember distinctly hearing this RJ in 84. I didn’t get the same impression you did. Subsequently I went to work at Gold and had access to all sorts of LRH tapes, comm cycles with musicians, technicians, Messengers et al. It sounded like LRH and these were at least from the same time period if not later. I dunno what to tell you, which is one of the reasons I took such an over the top stance up above.

    It was LRH on that RJ.

  485. Ronnie Bell, I responded to to his first post and yes I have read all others. May I suggest to you to read his affidavit 3 April 1985 for more historical information on www “name we’ll not say” dash
    BTW where is your gravatar info?

  486. See Tony, that’s the difference between an EO and Steve who gets his miracles from that very Tech but rather figures about it for another 2 years. However, he is pretty smart and I have good hopes he will see the light sooner and end his Q&A.

  487. Ronnie, I was very impressed with your write up when you appeared here for the first time. I had thought you a class act. And you may be.
    Yet here your pretenting to know me and sarcastically mocking me because i wont jump on the bash Bill Franks bandwagon. I am ok with my position. There is no pretense of it being taken from some high moral ground, as you imply. In fact, its quite humble. Try it.

  488. And Thanks Leonore for your great posts on the subject too.

  489. Carch, here are the 2 references I used in writing my post:

    (Also issued as HCOB, 27 Sept. 66, same title)

    Neither one says “2 1/2 % of the 20%”.

    I have 3 editions of the Scientology Ethics book, as well as the Volunteer Ministers Handbook, which also has a section which includes this HCOB, probably compiled from a previous publication.

    I have a busy weekend including work and my son’s birthday party, so it may be Monday before I can get back to you on this.

    I do know LRH said the true SP is a very rare bird; From his lectures I gather a “full-blown”, active SP is a bit beyond the 20% who have the “tendencies” to be suppressive; but he is unequivocal that they all support destructive activities and groups and essentially froth at the mouth when faced with constructive, social activities. The main difference seems to be the volume at which they display their negative characterisitics. Perhaps the majority are fairly quiet about the things they hate.

  490. If you have a look on the List One Rock Slam list then you see that people can have a Rock Slam (Evil Purpose) on L. Ron Hubbard. But what is defined as Evil can be also defined as Good. This is dependent on the viewpoint. Inside the Group of L. Ron Hubbard haters the so called Evil Purpose would be a Good purpose.
    If we like it or not by joining the group of Scientology we also are now the followers of L. Ron Hubbard and thus are the target of L. Ron Hubbard haters. Those haters are not limited to Earth or one lifetime.
    Those haters did manage to destroy Scientology (temporarily) here on Earth.
    But, while I had been on the Acadamy doing my Class 4 and NED I definitely had the idea that I never will forget what I did study. The „never“ is not limited to this life.
    Sometimes you can meet a clerk in a global player company. That clerk tells you that without his work the company would be gone. He feels that important. Similar to that some people on Earth feel the same way. Goverments, Politicians, David Miscavige. The are under the same delusion to be the most important person under the Sun and the Stars.

  491. Hello George,
    this should be the exact quote you’re talking about.

    “Gautama Siddhartha—nobody should say any hard words about this man, because he told everybody he was just a man, he was trying to set men free and he was trying to help people out, and so forth. And all that was perfectly true. And he discovered how to exteriorize without being able to stably exteriorize, without discovering any of the rules or laws of exteriorization, without making it possible for anybody else to exteriorize at will.
    How many hundred million people, since twenty‑five hundred years ago until now, did Gautama Siddhartha totally condemn to utter and complete slavery by not walking down that road all the way? Those half‑truths have been used and used and misused and abused and booby‑trapped and monkeyed up, and so forth.
    That’s merely because he didn’t go all the way down the road.
    Now, knowing this sort of thing, it takes a rather brave man to walk in the direction of truth because he knows very definitely that he must go on down the road. If he knows anything at all, he realizes that the traps of existence and the upsets of existence are composed of half‑truths, and that all work to amuse or enlighten or something is susceptible to being employed in the field of enslavement.
    The slave makers always use it. Somebody comes along and will want to set everybody free and naturally the reverse f low on it is to trap everybody. One has to recognize this as an action.
    All of this is not apparently very pertinent to what you are doing, but in actuality it is, because in the microcosm of the single human being, of the single person, you have the pattern of the macrocosm of the universe. And one could deduce that the universe exists from a series of basic postulates and proceeds on down the line in development from those postulates. You could even spot the goal of gold, the goal of lead. You could even spot the methods of livelihood of quartz, serpentine schist, hornblende, to name some combined elements—the rules of what they do. It’s not that these things are alive at all; it’s that they follow a certain dictated behavior pattern.
    Instead of sitting there wondering how many “microjilts” are supposed to be imposed into the ohm, an electronics man would much better spend his time, if he really wanted to make some progress, in an effort to analyze the pattern of intention which goes up and constructs a certain power behavior.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, from a lecture given on 1 November 1962 “The Road to Truth.”

    As I see it, Ron means, that the “slave makers” enslaved the people, not Siddharta himself.
    As it seems, Ron didn’t go “all the way” himself, as the slave makers hijacked the Scientology Organization while he was still alive.
    It’s sad, but the statement, nevertheless, is still true. (At least for me.)

    I am not sure about the “exteriorisation” issue with the historical Buddha. I only know, that lots of “Buddhism” was developped after his passing.


  492. “I respect confidentiallity even though its everywhere on the internet”

    Frankly, Brian, if you do, than please don’t post “verbal data” about the upper level narratives.
    There are people here not ready for stuff like this.

    Thank you.

  493. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    Your answer really resonates with me. Trying to keep on resolving problems within a group without any results coming out of one´s efforts – and made to feel really bad all the while is a strong indicator that you should get out of that group, because it´s a trap. I can fully duplicate that – and it solved just about everything for me to read that. Thank you! And please keep writing! I´m learning a lot from your wisdom!

  494. I agree this is the coolest blog ever in the world . Especially concerning the matters that we talk about . So many other sites have come and gone and unfortunately s still there where is nothing but constant infighting so it’s imperative that we all keep it Respectful

  495. I know better

    Hey Michael…think you waaaay misjudged my post. I said what I meant, which is–I don’t know. I am thinking there is another falsehood besides the obvious that the book will talk about, which I am excited to read. No come-on and no mystery here… Sorry if you were offended

  496. Li'll bit of stuff

    Gern, got ya. see my reply to Oracle below.

  497. Link Raymond

    Mayo was equally as bright at DM and equally as egotistical; he lost the political battle. However your comment about Debbie Cook made me mad — Debbie Cook, while she served well as Capt FSO, opened the door to cracking this DM case wide open — she brought hope on top of what Marty, Mike et al did and do. I even sent her some money. Then she put a knife in my heart when she got bought off and quit the attack. While it was not nearly the betrayal to LRH that DM is, it nonetheless was a betrayal.

  498. Tony DePhillips

    Great point O.O.
    I really like the way you think. Not just on this one but in general,

  499. Tony DePhillips

    Except trolls….and OSA bots…
    For them it’s open season.

  500. RD, I had some of the same perceptions of the tape as you, but very different conclusions. My sense was that the tape was heavily edited, but probably by LRH himself. Sinar’s (and others’) firsthand accounts tend to back up that conclusion.

    LRH was trying to put some stability into an organization that was heavily fractured and put his support (and clearly his hopes) into RTC and CST. The people that he entrusted with RTC and CST ultimately deceived him — Miscavige most of all, as he controlled the comm line going in to LRH and going out to the world.

    That’s really the simplicity of the situation.

  501. In honor of Mary Sue Hubbard … who according to her daughter Diana (told to me personally, when Diana heard from my husband at the time that I loved astrology and could read palms) loved astrology:

    Venus is currently retrograde until 27 June. Furthermore and more importantly … according to many astrologers THIS particular June is VERY difficult one.

    “This is one of the most challenging months I have ever seen. Venus is still retrograde, signaling stress and misfires in our exchanges with others. Be mindful of the assumptions you are making. Jokes and humor may either mask or unintentionally reveal someone’s true agenda. Fear and over emotional reactions can get in the way of clear, logical thinking.
    On the negative side, this is “analysis paralysis” and could bring losses through gambling, gossip, trusting rumors or information that turns out to be untimely or not true. Lessons at this time are about use and misuse of words, language, promises kept and broken, and the call for clarity of purpose. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, and those who are avoiding the truth will be more likely to get caught up in the web of their own imaginings, susceptible to smooth talkers who tell them what they want to hear, whether it’s “pie in the sky” or unfounded fear. Focus your attention on your feet, the Earth, staying grounded.”

    I had to smile as sometimes the stars just seem to be speaking sooth.

    Although perhaps we best heed the words of the Bard … “It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.”


  502. JF, I’m no fan of the mob either. But what you have on this thread are several, separate, eyewitness accounts chronicling time, place, form and event of extremely bizarre/godawful behavior. And that’s only from commenters on this blog. Bottom line: He ain’t got much credibility.

  503. Tony DePhillips

       [sik-uh-fuhnt, -fant, sahy-kuh-] Show IPA

    a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.


    1530–40; < Latin sȳcophanta < Greek sȳkophántēs informer, equivalent to sŷko ( n ) fig + phan- (stem of phaínein to show) + -tēs agentive suffix

  504. Hey Mike, you missed the fact that I put “Scientologist” in quotes in my comment. I don’t think he ever came close.

  505. As an FEBC student at the time, I remember Bill Franks in 1981. Bill was comm-ev’d and declared SP as a result. He didn’t blow, he waited patiently (and rather frantically) for the findings & recs.

  506. Path of Buddha

    Thanks! That is the exact quotation my wife and I heard.
    In the Theravada tradition, it is not possible to stretch the idea of
    exteriorization to include the enlightenment as LRH suggests.
    Now in other traditions, one might be able to find a flavor of
    Buddhism that fits Ron’s idealism.
    LRH had very limited knowledge of the Pali Canon. There are
    two keys to this. First of all, he claims that
    Ananda, the Buddha’s personal attendant, was his partner in the
    discourses. This is not true. Ananda only memorized the discourses.
    Secondly, LRH refers to a few Discourses and quickly says that
    they contain material “we have covered”. I count that
    Ron Hubbard was familiar with 2-4 Discourses at most.
    This is less that .5% of the Canon.
    In addition, Ron Hubbard had no knowledge of Pali, the language used.
    Many translations used in the 1960’s were weak.
    Ron Hubbard did claim that he learned the principles of
    Buddhism 10,000 years before recorded history. If he did,
    he learned something entirely different from the Dhamma or
    the teaching the the Buddha.
    In the Pali Canon, the description of the enlightenment is
    given in detail. If LRH thinks it was exteriorization, he did
    not carefully understand meditation. First of all, Theravada
    Buddhism starts with the the “Five Aggregates which are
    form, feeling perception, consciousness and mental formations.
    In order to exteriorize, as LRH suggests, the Buddha would
    have to have been un-mindful of these aggregates. This
    is not possible. Secondly, the Buddha states quite clearly
    that the path must be followed exactly. The Buddha knew that
    his teaching was very subtle and that only a few would understand it.
    LRH tried to simplify the Buddha’s teaching. The short-cut
    he suggests is not related to Theravada. My personal view
    is that Ron Hubbard ran into something closer to the
    derived traditions.

    Thanks again for finding the exact reference!
    You have earned merit!

    George M. White

  507. SKM,
    LRH had a purpose in that life, he followed it, and the legacy is the body of work, the technology of application to enable individuals to achieve the Ultimate Truth defined in the Axioms of Scientology. It is a complete work, nevertheless, one has to honestly, fully, walk the road. For that:“A very cursory glance at the Dharma discovers that it embraces these facts. “All that we are is the result of what we have thought; it is founded on our thoughts, it ismade up of our thoughts.” “By oneself evil is done; by oneself one suffers; by oneself evil is left undone; by oneself one is purified. Purity and impurity belong to oneself; no one can purify another.” “You yourself must make an effort; the Buddhas are only preachers. The thoughtful who enter the way are freed from the bondage of sin.” “He who does not rouse himself when it is time to rise, who, though young and strong, is full of sloth, whose will and thoughts are weak, that lazy and idle man will never find the way to enlightenment.” “Strenuousness is the path of immortality, sloth the path of death. Those who are strenuous do not die; those who are slothful are as if dead already.”” PAB 32, 7 Aug 54

  508. I happened to read in a book ‘The psychology of prophetism’ a description of a certain personality (ixoid, i.e. viscous, sticky), that strongly reminded me of a certain person:
    1.domineering and vindicative behaviour
    2.impulsive, inclined to violence
    3.intolerant of disagreement
    4.waves of bad temper, explosions
    5.yet, over-social, wants to serve, has a sense of fairness (so that their angry explosions are occasioned by perceived injustice)
    6.meticulous, order-loving, pedantic
    7.persistent and though
    8. speech disturbances may occur.
    In the book it was applied to the ‘person’ of Mozes (more or less the inventor of the holy war), but it made me think of someone else … a certain POB of a religion right now, sometimes called ‘DM’, or Drone Master.

  509. Firstly, this communication could have never even existed within the church. And on that virtue alone it is a wonderdul thing. Experiences varied and life experience different and shared with passion.

    We are all seekers of truth on this blog, and maybe that’s why we drawn to it. It’s that way for me.

    Without talking about confidential materials: how many people, that were not Scientologists, died or got deathly sick from hearing about OT3?

    It is all over the internet and we can assume that untold numbers saw it on South Park. So the experiment to proove Ron has been cast.

    It is a article of faith in Scientology that simply hearing about OT 3 will drive people mad. That info is broad public issue.

    So, how many non Scientlogists that heard this info are dead, sick, insane etc.

    This is not a snarky question, this is a direct and reasonable question regarding Ron’s assertions of the dangers of simply hearing it.

    I say non Scientologist because of the auto suggestion influence of someone agreeing that a negative effect will happen.

    SURVEY: how many non Scientologist do you know who flipped out?

  510. Nono, in a truly fascist society the Occupy Wall Street crowd would have been put into a wood chipper feet first and used for furtilizer for the ruling class.

    In America, we can express our hate or love for our government in the streets and press. The conservative/liberal argument is a good argument

    The unhampered freedom of expression is the measuring stick for freedom’s health. And the right to qualified unlimited self evolvement and experimentation in the arts, sciences and the religious/spiritual fields has unleashed a tsunami of human genius the world has yet to witness.

    That freedon is here on Marty’s Blog.

  511. “Simple” – I was Chris Montgomery’s (Phyll Stevens’ daughter) BC Course Admin and Tech Films I/C from August 1991 to November 1994 (when I was illegally busted to Dishland by the Int Command Team mission).

    Your account is highly inaccurate. Chris recruited her husband into the Sea Org where he became ASHO Foundation crew for a time after much protest which fell on deaf ears because (unbeknownst to any of us at the time, the suppressive orders to break up marriages between SO and NSO came directly from David Miscavige).

    No, there was a Golden Age of Tech pilot that began in 1994. Chris Montgomery trained under LRH at St. Hill on the original BC, so she bloody well was not going to put up with the squirrel GAoT drills and wrote numerous reports to RTC about it (again, not knowing that it was Darth Midget himself who originated that crap).

    Chris was busted from her post and sent to the PAC RPF for allegedly falsifying Student Points stats. She ended up routing off the RPF and leaving the Sea Org. If she was ever declared an SP, I have not heard of it.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  512. The battle is not over.

    There are still a lot of people in this world working very hard to keep people from getting free.

  513. Sorry if I disappointed you with my lack of humilty , JF, but I tend to call out evil and wrong when I see it, and I’m usually not very reasonable or diplomatic about it when I do. And no, I’m not pretending to know you, I’m just responding to your non-judgemental reaction to the testimonies about Bill Franks.

    I’m glad you liked my write-up. It’s an example of how I react to SPs and suppressive groups. I also post with my real name. I’m kind of overt like that.

  514. Addendum to my above comment – Chris routed out due to serious medical problems.

    According to reports I have heard, she became a good little Churchie after that in order *not* to be declared SP so that she would not lose her mother Phyll Stevens, who passed away some years ago.

    I can only hope that she comes to her senses and leaves to join us Independents. We could use another Ron Hubbard trained Class VI C/S out here.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  515. Sorry about that, Chief. – Maxwell Smart

  516. May I suggest to you to read his affidavit 3 April 1985 for more historical information…?”

    Sure you can, but that’s not going to change the fact that I’ve observed what I’ve observed about Bill Franks. The fact that he sat down and swore to someone that a story was true, doesn’t mean it is. People lie under oath all the time.

    BTW where is your gravatar info?

    Gravatar info? I’m posting here under my real name, and you can see my photo if you look up my write-up on this blog. Where’s your real name, and your write-up? How ’bout your picture? Have you posted those anywhere?

  517. Something very good is happening here.

  518. John: Perhaps Franks was comm ev’d at that time and perhaps he was declared at that time. Don’t know.

    What I DO know is that Franks took off, I believe from Int. He called my ex and I in LA. We told him he could come to our home and stay while he figured things out.

    Since I knew John Nelson well from my days at Flag (John Nelson THEN was Mission Preps – a very low level position, getting uniforms etc for Mission) but also knew John Nelson was at THIS time ’81-’82 a high level Commodore’s Messenger — I put in a call to John. Not directly mind you but through external comm at Cedars with enough info for John to call me back.

    Told John that Franks was at our home and shortly afterwards David Mayo to my home, sat for a few hours in my living room while he work at recovering Franks. Franks lied to him saying that he WOULD return but only after getting the dental work done. (which we paid for)

    So John — you might have been an FEBC student during the Franks era and I apparently had some dropped out history but believe me — Franks blew, was not recovered and went merrily off into the world. Where I believe he later remarried and had at least one child.

    OR — it’s all an illusion and none of it happened.

    Take your pick 🙂


  519. “Grasshopper” wrote “OT TRO done right is essentially meditation “done right.”

    I’m going to take great exception to the that.

    Scientology contains it’s own special definition of “Be” (as in “Be there and do nothing else but Be there.”) found in the first five (5) Factors (Scientology 0-8) and not found in any other subject. I don’t speak for Ron Hubbard, but I submit that the drill is called “OT” TR 0 because those Factors represent the distilled essence of what it means to be OT: assume a viewpoint and create a space around it.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  520. Lizabeth – you do realize that an Affidavit all by itself is nothing more than a report with an attest (remember “This is True” ?) that bears a risk of penalty for perjury only if it can be shown in court that Affiant knowingly lied (very hard to prove) ?

    Affidavits by themselves do not automatically represent the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, no matter who wrote them. This is one of the big mistakes I see the so-called “critic” community routinely making.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  521. Link Raymond

    Well CB, I agree with most of what you say but then I hit the “I’m not a believer in future lives…” — that implies you also by definition do not believe in past lives. That is sad to me because it means you missed some rather significant good LRH tech. Either you didn’t read some LRH tech on the point, or did not believe it then, and/or you did not experience it is session. While no one really can know about future lives, one sure as hell can know about past lives especially, as I did, you were there on the back track in a session when there was no doubt that at that time it was very real.

  522. Nice post Oracle 🙂

  523. Li'll bit of stuff

    You appear to be out of your own valence
    here. No room in your created universe
    available for the simple granting of beingness, puts you at a distinct dis- advantage

    Scn tech dictionary p.429;
    THETA, (dfn. 4) reason, serenity, stability,
    happiness,cheerful emotion, persistence,
    and the other factors which man ordinarily
    considers desirable.

    p.414 / 415
    SUPPRESSIVE PERSON, (dfn.5) an S.P
    is a non-confront case because, not
    being in his own valence he has no view-
    point from which to erase any thing.
    (including your usual snarky, comments.)

    Never the less, I wish you well in your

    Calvin B.Duffield

  524. @George
    I know, the translations of Pali were very rare and inaccurate in the 50s/60s.
    I don”t know all the “claims” Ron did, if at all.
    If so, I’d love to see the exact quote.
    But be assured – I fully understand your viewpoint. Sincerelly.

    I know.

    Lots of admiration to you, guys.

  525. Li'll bit of stuff

    Take heart Alex, at least you DID become aware
    of , or came to know —the time, place, form and
    event —–(ping!) —No longer stupid!
    Best, Calvin

  526. To Jim Logan,

    Jim there is a misunderstood, When I say DM I say David Miscavige not David Mayo. I have the feeling that you think that I say that in RJ38 David Mayo was choosen. Of course not (yes I know what Mayo says about being choosen for technical hat for 20 years).
    RJ 38, without quoting Miscavige, is giving power to RTC, very clearly, as it is the Proof that LRH was on this side of the conflict.
    Now, i always felt to not recognize LRH, and that this tape was not a correctly included tape in LRH’s style with this computer stuff.
    When you first listened to it, you have been a sea org member, but maybe you didn’t have the awarness level that you have now.
    At this time I was already on Not’s and a class 6 auditor, and I felt betrayed in my awarness of the source.
    But maybe I’m wrong. But if LRH really recorded this tape on his self determinism it seems that he was completely misinformed of what was going on.
    I have been in doubt of RTC since it’s creation. Now you left them after a while. I’m more or less a coward as I’m still more or less a member of the church (i don’t give them a dime, but listen to the “basics”) knowing for 30 years that something is wrong with RTC.
    Just what I mean… Give it another chance, listen to the tape… I’ll trust your judgement.

    Margaret, Oracle, you might be right also. Maybe I had a vision of LRH and he was just different. Maybe it’s the truth, but maybe also it’s justifying an outpoint. The voice and the significance were not consistant with what I thought was LRH… usually when I listened to LRH, I never felt BI’s, ARC broken and even out list. And it’s what I felt. I had this feeling also with several HCOBs, for exemple the HCOB from 1982 reinstating disconnection, and OT eligibilty. Off source, don’t fit with other data.
    When I listened or read actual LRH’s data, it always indicate.

  527. To Jim Logan
    Read that. Church said it’s false and bullshit. But is it?

  528. PersonalJudas

    You’ve had a lot to say and add to this blog but respectfully, I take exception to your slapdown style. Have a look over you posts, going way back; you’re almost always rebuking or snapping at someone.
    A little ARC goes a long way.

  529. All Clear Unit I/C might have been the post from which it would be easiest to inject false reports calculated to raise security concerns and dissuade LRH from resuming normal comm. “No sir, it’s not All Clear yet…in fact we’ve been on alert because another undercover agent was spotted in Hemet yesterday… There’s been no cooperation from the GO… Better keep low…”

  530. Well hell! Maybe this is the Church Scripture David Miscavige has been thinking with! I can see the truth in this. One could get a lot more done ,in fact anything is possible, when you have no regard for the other one. That is a secret to magic. No regard for anything else, no regard for the laws of physics, no regard for the other universe, full regard for self. Speaking for myself, I understand this totally. You can really get things done with this idea. This is where you go when you pushed into the arena as a slave. This is where you go when you dropped into Viet Nam as a soldier under Nixon. This is where you go when you make a prison break. This is the code of the Samurai. It is just usually in the same arena with religion, spiritual enlightenment, and goes directly against taking responsibility for others , caring about the guy in front of you, or the mechanics of ARC. So this would become a GPM moment for me if I were thinking with these laws in this arena. This is just me. This arena of Scientology is where I rest, care, be cared for, and in front of the auditor revisit the past where I operated with no regard for others and in a new unit of time, examine how that worked out for me. Throw that against the rules for happy living and adjust my volume in a manner where I can co exist with others and they can co exist with me. Because I myself get miffed when others operate with no regard for me.

  531. And so did HUbbard, BIG TIME.

  532. Miscavige has full regard for self, no regard for others. That is exactly how he has “gotten so much done”. And to co excist with Miscavige the only qual is “Full regard for Miscavige, no regard for self”. The problem in the Church right now is “Full regard for one person no regard for self”.
    And the reason I do not have wounds with the Scientology experience is that I don’t go there. When I see that as an option put in front of me I leave the table. That in itself is an out exchange. Regard, consideration, care and attention are real exchanges. Ideas are real exchanges. Kindness is an exchange. When these things are demanded yet with held an out exchange happens. Hubbard exchanged big time with his knowledge. When you have people running about these days not training, not moving up the bridge, driven like slaves with no regard for self, full regard for Miscavige OR Hubbard, it shifts into a murky common drama that plays like an out dated soap opera. David Miscavige is a slum Lord.

  533. Tony DePhillips

    I’d rather be an SP than a phoney like you Mr. H.A.S. course graduate.
    The indication of being an SP doesn’t bother me anymore. The cult used that oneon me and it didn’t work either.
    Does anybody else in South Africa know this guy? Just curious..
    There must be someone in south Africa who is an Indie that knows Mr. Calvin.
    You seem to claim you are an old timer, yet you only did the H.A.S. course? You talk like you are ex Sea Org and these things don’t add up to me? I am not going to compromise with my reality. Maybe my reality is bad? That’s ok, that is how I learn. But for my money you are an odd bird.
    Time will tell..
    Why don’t you come to the Indie event and make some new friends?

  534. Max. I do get it. We have suffered no shortage of vicious megalomaniacs. I also personally witnessed the guy in question go through his own meltdown. Karma.

    My feelings on him and any others from the past and/or present is to hate the sin, not the sinner. We can absoultely make a judement, assessment, evaluation or whatever one wants to call it and condemm bad acts. I only want to and wish we would differentiate the act from the being buried underneath his reactive mind, false purposes, or what have you. If we have learned anything from the tech, it should be to realize that difference.

    My push back to Alex’s post was along those lines only. I felt he was not making the distinction as well as making too general a statement on two guys who gave a lot for what they believed in and were at one point amongst us as comrades and are not here to defend themselves. But I have nothing but respect and the highest regard for Alex Castillo.

    The way i treat the word judgement is in that larger meaning and others may be using it in a more immediate form, which can also be used. Ultimately, judgement is done by ones higher power, whether that will be ones own self or something else, I cannot say.

    What i found in regards to scientology organizations and goals, in practice, is that the end justified the means, individuals were expendable and it was always about money. I am not a fan. The Philosophy is something else entirely, but i have yet to see it in practice in the organization except to solicit members, push production or raise funds.

    The tech has value and i fully support those practicing it, spreading it, freeing it up from any controls that would keep it from being applied on a broad scale.

    And i really cannot wait to read Marty’s book.

  535. WindWalkeer


    I would be so bold to say that the actions of David Miscavige were undoubtedly a mutiny. Had he been appropriately intercepted he would have been stopped short. However, the policys on mutiny are to protect the controlling entity, and now that Miscavige is in place, the very same policy can be ruthlessly employed by him to silence all dissent.

    Unfortunately without sane application, this policy, like many things, can be used either for good or evil. Once the tool is firmly in the hands of the user the results of its application will expose the user’s intentions.

    Eric S

  536. Hallo RD,
    I did not see that document. But I can confirm that a project existed with the name „smash the squirrels“. We in munich org had a mission doing that project. Most part had been on OSA level but also on org level actions had been done. (mainly the ethics officer had to „follow up“ the OSA found out squirrel connections. SP declares)
    One comment on RJ38: Right after the event that RJ38 had been played many people did discuss the point that this RJ38 is not LRH. (munich org)

  537. O.K. Thank you Calvin and Tony. Listen, we are supposed to be on the same side remember? Please rise above urges, suggestions, or purposes to op term your mates. Please do not get sucked in to, pushed placed or pulled into op term positions. This is the stuff that drains our power. Please make yourselves aware of the mechanics of op terming. You will move above other people’s power to restimulate your urges to op term.

  538. This again is a clever CIA plot by men/women/trolls. Really RD, you gots to get over being so gullible. My oh my.

  539. Weptiwian Iwwuminati mayhaps? Or, Other Dimensional Beings, with Ron Voices. El Ron Elray? Ummm, how ’bout…ahh, you make something up. G’head, it’s fun.

  540. Mike Hobson – Thank you. There is much more written from William Franks and others on that site. Of course an affidavit is only an attest, as opposed to word of mouth, as it is written and sworn to with out going to trial. No matter WHO writes them. I think one of the biggest mistakes is in not looking at all sides of an issue. One can better determine the truth by one’s ability to differentiate the truths of others with one’s own truth, as a Free Thetan. One’s ability to know and evaluate is then higher. Of course it depends on your interest and some people, things, are more interesting than others. Like many, I’m searching for truth in however I find it.
    I thank Marty and all commenters for sharing their truths. 🙂

    Currently ex-Scientologist

  541. Right Mike. Look at all the “affidavits” the CoS produces from the ex-wives club etc, that swear David Miscavige is a saintly prince and that the “apostates” are all liars……

  542. Tony,
    You’re right. There is a definite franticness to the op these days. All the ploys, and to the max. Wonder how come? (Huh Dave? Li’l bit of trouble recently? Missing something? Lots on your rod, er, plate?)

    Calvin, bad call. Wrong move.

  543. Errol Sayin

    Agree with Ronnie Bell;disagree with nonono..America is not a fascist state.
    And America had the sense to throw John Gotti into jail. Which is more sense than the CoS has had with regards to David Miscavige. Maybe those
    inside the Church should study the bible: Proverbs 16:18 Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
    or watch Pulp Fiction “pride never helps; it only hurts”

  544. Mike Hobson

    RD: tell us what steps *you* took to authenticate that purported leaded document, please ?

    Who leaked it?
    To whom was it leaked ?
    When, exactly ?
    Where was it first published and by whom ?

    Oh, and exactly where and when did “Church said it’s false and bullshit.”? Who was it that made that response ?

    Show us some evidence that *you* did your homework on this, please.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  545. I think many people might wish deny it was LRH on RJ38, when it dawned on them that they had not been following his wishes re: cancellation of Disconnection, cancellation of Fair Game, etc.

    It clearly sounded to me like LRH felt abashed, almost shamed, at some of the actions that had been taken against others, in his name, the name of Scientology and in the name of “policy”.

    That’s what I heard, when I listened to RJ38.

    I think “You Can Be Right” was the operative dynamic, and still is, as more people listen to RJ38 for the first time.

  546. Just because someone issues a license to kill here doesn’t mean it has to be taken.


    1. The successful participant of a group is that participant who closely approximates in his own activities the ideal, ethic and rationale of the overall group.

    2. The responsibility of the individual for the group as a whole should not be less than the responsibility of the group for the individual.

    3. The group member has, as part of his responsibility, the smoot operation of the entire group.

    4. The group member must exert and insist upon HIS RIGHTS and prerogatives as a group member AND INSIST UPON THE RIGHTS and prerogatives of the group as a group AND LET NOT those rights be diminished in any way or degree for ANY EXCUSE or CLAIMED expeditiousness.

    5. The member of a true group must exert and practice his right to contribute to the group. And he must insist upon the right of the group to CONTRIBUTE to him. He should recognize that a myriad of group failures will result when either of these contributions is denied as a right.
    (A welfare state being that state in which the member is not permitted to contribute to the state but must take contribution from that state.)

    6. ENTURBULANCE of the affairs of the group by sudden shifts of plans unjustified by circumstances, breakdown of recognized channels or cessation of useful operations in a group MUST BE REFUSED and BLOCKED by the member of the group. HE SHOULD TAKE CARE NOT TO ENTURBULATE A MANAGER AND THUS LOWER ARC,

    7. Failure in planning or failure to recognize goals MUST BE CORRECTED BY THE GROUP member for the group by calling the matter to conference or ACTING ON HIS INITIATIVE.

    8. A group member must coordinate his initiative with the goals and rationale of the entire group and with other individual members, WELL PUBLISHING HIS ACTIVITIES and INTENTIONS so that all conflicts may be brought forth in advance.

    9. A group member must insist upon his right to have initiative.

    10. A group member must study and understand and work with the goals, rationale and execution of the group.

    11. A group member must work toward becoming an expert as possible in his specialized technology and skill in the group and MUST ASSIST other individuals of the group to AN UNDERSTANDING of that technology and skill and it’s place in the organizational necessities of the group.

    12. A group member should have a working knowledge of all of the technologies and skills in the group in order to UNDERSTAND them and their place in the organizational necessities of the group.


    14. A GROUP MEMBER HAS A RIGHT OF PRIDE in his tasks and a RIGHT OF JUDGEMENT and handling in those tasks.

    All of the above does NOT = “Run all over dead bodies with out regard otherwise you can’t get anything done”

    PLEASE! The glue that holds THIS group together is REASON.

  547. Mike Hobson

    I am not much inclined to care what persons who won’t give their right names have to say about my “style”.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  548. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Oracle. I like you and you must be a woman because I see that beautiful motherly instinct coming out…if not..then …well…er …sorry. 🙂

  549. Tony DePhillips

  550. The first cut in this movement was the deepest. We rolled with the punches. That is over for us is over, There is really no need to bring knives back to the table. Please try to care again. If Marty wasn’t able to that, we would even have a platform to bicker.

  551. I meant, if Marty wasn’t able to do that, (care again) we wouldn’t even have a platform to bicker. Use this platform to care if you can.

  552. Any news on DM? What is he doing lately?

  553. How come your Gravatar say’s “no-such-user. We couldn’t find that profile”. but I was able to see mine with info. Will the real Ronnie Bell please stand up? Or fix your Gravatar. I just asked where the info was and boy that sure seemed to pi-s you off.
    Is there some hidden standard that one has to have a write-up on Marty’s blog in order to post, to give a real name or photo? Anybody can use anyone’s name, you know that! Just checkin’

  554. LOL, twice 🙂

  555. I just found this on internet exactly as I found Marty’s site. It just match a perception of mine. Yes I read somewhere on internet that Miscavige did a kind of testimony that it was false that he never wrote that.
    Jim why do you deny the possibility that it could be a true document. Why do you deny it so immediately?
    It seems having correctly included data. It’s adressed to Marc (probably Yager) Tell about Pat (probably Broeker) Use the vocabulary of Miscavige. It it’s false, it’s very well made, when RJ38 if it’s true look very poorly like LRH.
    It might be false, why to deny it so abruptly?
    Is it by past agreement with RTC? Having been involved into the suppression of “squirrels groups”, like Mayo or Robertson? Vade reto satana!
    Heretics who call LRH Elron Elray?
    Yes there were splinter groups, all created in reaction to the fascist RTC and Miscavige. And yes, I think Miscavige could have really written “smash the squirrels” and ordered it.
    But for some reasons, you choose not to consider this possibility.
    For you, it’s part of carzy stuff, coming from “squirrels”, freezoner, rons orger and all of them…

    Iamvalkov you’re mixing RJ 68 (from 1968) which cancelled disconnection and which is a very beautiful, on source LRH’s tape, and RJ38 (from 1983) which is a political shit called the Proof, where it seems, if it’s him, that LRH attack the “squirrels”.

    Mike Hobson I don’t get this : *You*, what’s this? The answer to your questions are simply on the site where the document is.

    Thank you Georges, I was not the only one to have this perception at this time. And this perception and the “smash the squirrels” document are fitting.

  556. Got it JF…..thanks!

  557. I would say that this thread gets no better as it unravels, and consequently I may just have to bid adieu. I would also add that the facts are mostly wrong, at least the ones I am aware of. However, I will gladly repay the $2.00 for whose ever washing machine knob went broken. Just drop off an invoice.
    Keep drinking the koolaid kids so as not to drop out of this delirium you all seem to have genned up for yourselves. Hmmmm!
    Just because you have changed brands of kool aid doesn’t change the fact that you are relying on koolaid in order to carry on.
    Lastly, I have not yet been able to decipher whether or not obamacare covers mental nausea and to what degree; but my fingers are crossed for you all, those I remember and those I have not had the orderal of yet meeting.
    As for Marty Rathbun, I have not yet met you, but I would like to alert you to the cosmic penalty for playing loose with the facts. Especially when the purpose is to feather one’s own nest. We have all heard some pretty disturbing things about you my friend.Just because Miscavage got the 2-3 billion and you didn’t. That’s something you complain to mommy about and not the general world.
    Bill Franks

  558. Ronnie, you did not disappoint me. I try to understand people. I am glad your here. You appear to be a stand up guy. I wish you all the best.

  559. I have to agree with Jim, Calvin.

    Just because someone else may be bouncing all over this forum op terming does not mean you should play follow the leader. It is really not your nature to op term. Whatever case has been restimulated , please stand back from it.

  560. Tony, just because someone else is bouncing all over this blog op terming doesn’t mean you have to play follow the leader. Whatever case has been restimulated, please stand back from it.

    Conflict is created through a third party.

  561. Ronnie Bell

    I think one of the biggest mistakes is in not looking at all sides of an issue. One can better determine the truth by one’s ability to differentiate the truths of others with one’s own truth, as a Free Thetan. One’s ability to know and evaluate is then higher.

    Liz, sometimes a rat is just a rat.

  562. Jim, If Calvin is wrong for op terming then you are wrong for op terming. Why don’t you lead by example?

  563. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the warning Kettle. Kitchens always have been a tad hot for you.

  564. Tony DePhillips

    I appreciate your advice but will do what seems right to me.
    An OSA bot is not a group member. I don’t think someone just showing up here makes them a group member.
    Have a nice weekend.

  565. Well, perhaps you’re right. As I said, I am not an expert in meditation. But I will say it is very close to “Take Ten Minutes of Nothing” and “Spacation” in the “Six Steps to Better Beingness” (PAB 7). Only, you are being there and confronting the person in front of you, so it is not a 1st dynamic act.

  566. And this:

    You’re right.
    Calvin, bad call. Wrong move.

    Is injustice. They are both doing the same thing. Op terming. How does one them become “right” and the other “wrong”? They are dramatizing the same case! “Tony you are right Calvin you are wrong = It’s me and Tony against you now Calvin.” Now three are op terming.

    The condition of enemy is below normal. How is one person’s lower condition and the other’s wrong? And why should any three of you be harmed, attacked or surpressed? Was that a conscious, researched based decision? Your conditions effect the over all condition of the group.

    Suggested cram:

    1. Solo auditors fly your ruds.

    2. Pick up the ethics book and make a conscious determination about who should be harmed attacked and suppressed and know why. Ego doesn’t qualify. Ser facs do not qualify. The urge to make someone wrong doesn’t qualify. Boredom doesn’t qualify. Shooting for sport doesn’t qualify. Shooting for sport at your own team mates during a struggle is flat out confusion.

  567. Oracle, that was a spectacular video “First Time is the Deepest” So right.
    My first time was in ’85 and tried to love again in ’10, so the second cut wasn’t as deep. Good way to see it, thanks.

  568. The Art of Getting Money by PT Barnum:

    Bill states —-

    “We have all heard some pretty disturbing things about you my friend.Just because Miscavage got the 2-3 billion and you didn’t. That’s something you complain to mommy about and not the general world.”

  569. Tony DePhillips

    By the way Oracle, I don’t know what you mean about me “trying to care again?”
    I cared enough to come out in my own name years ago at great personal risk. I cared enough to go and visit Marty and get auditing from him. I could go on. I care enough that if I see weird shit going on I will call people on it. I will let Marty decide if I am out of line, if he does that’s what counts with me.

  570. To Bill Franks,

    I’m finally going to chime in on this thread I’ve been avoiding for days.

    You’re an asshole and famous for it. You don’t have an iota of a sense you should take personal responsibility for your overts against others – not financially, emotionally, sexually, organizationally or in any other way. Why don’t you clean up the long list of people you’ve hurt in your life – instead of, in your sunset years and for God knows what egotistical reasons known probably not even to yourself – tossing out over the top, vague, sensationalistic accusations you can’t prove? Feeling in your dotage that you aren’t getting the attention you deserve? Hoping for a longer obituary?

    You’re a creep who takes advantage of others, and you always have. You’re cold, calculating, cruel and into whatever you’re into for your own benefit and no one else’s.

    Go fuck yourself.


  571. Ronnie Bell, you haven’t fixed your gavatar yet ,”no- such- user”, nor answered my post back to you. “Sometimes a rat is just a rat”, right! One needs to verify who is the rat!

  572. LOL! I still play the donkey braying video when I want to all of the dogs to bark! It drives them into a frenzy!

  573. “I will gladly repay the $2.00 for whose ever washing machine knob went broken.”
    Hey Bill, what about the money for the dentist?

  574. Tony DePhillips

    Hey O,
    I like that donkey one too… 🙂

  575. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Oracle,
    Thanks for the suggested cram.
    I am sure that feathers get ruffled all the way around. I am not worried about handling the case, if any, connected with it right now.
    Life isn’t always peace and quiet. Someitmes a coon will get into the henhouse and startle the shit out of you. You just have to get the pest out of the hen house. Sometimes you may mistake the house cat for a racoon and hurt it on accident. The point is , you can’t always live life afraid to offend. Doing what I thought was right by resigning from the cult upset a lot of people, me being on Solo Nots and all. I do not suscribe to the “don’t offend anyone” theory.
    I do consider Jim a group member of mine and I will stick up for him. I tell him when I think he’s wrong and he will for me too. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
    A person just shows up on the blog and I’m supposed to consider him a group member of mine?? I don’t think so. I’m not that easy.
    I actually think of group members in different ways. someone who comes out in their own name has altitude with me if they come out openly on Marty or Steve’sblog with a photo and a story.
    I understand people feel they need to be under the radar for various reasons. People under the radar do not have the same altitude to me.
    If anyone had reason to be under the radar it would be Marty, Mike ,Steve, Jim, Amy etc… these people took a lot of risk and personal danger, so forgive me if I don’t treat everyone the way I would them.

  576. Ronnie Bell

    Thank you, JM. That needed saying.

  577. Tony DePhillips

    I’m gong to end cycle on it for now. Check out this video!!

  578. Oracle, you are right but there are subdivisions to this group. Marty’s Moving On Up a Little Higher, Rathbuns Place is a group of groups as I see it. It’s open to the Independents or Indies, the Freezoner, ex Scientologist, non Scientologists, those wogs looking to see what it’s all about and maybe interested, and those that care enough about human rights and want to help us. Not forgetting those that want to destroy us, as sock puppets, whom we play the game. The opinions or views we put out here are seen in a much broader sense than rules they must follow for a single group, since they belong to a larger group, like human beings, but want to fit in somewhat and help without being in a single group.
    Oh it’s late and I do hope you get what I’m saying. I just feel more than one type group be welcome freely to participate and learn. The glue is we all have a common interest, and we are all here for a reason, to think, help and speak individually. The above rules just sounded a little heavy to me. Hope you understand where I’m coming from… just another imho, thank you.

  579. Tony, I will not op term you.

    This is something I copied in note form from an HCOB and I don’t even know if I copied it verbatum. Someone who has done the OEC FEBC could probably come forward with the exact reference and HCOB number. It was from LR.H. and it says:

    “You can therefore know your enemies by those who seek to knock out any part of your:

    A. Power
    B. Authority
    C. Personnel
    D. Wealth
    E. Property “.

    A person’s wealth is their friends.

    The people here are Marty’s friends. The people here are your friends too. Where people are pitted in conflict , there is an attempt to knock out Marty’s power. If people are blasted off this blog this is Marty’s wealth being knocked out from underneath him. An OSA bot would not be contributing to that wealth. An OSA BOT would be here generating conflict and ARCX’s. Having a sense for this I only move forward to put back what someone else may be trying to knock out. If you don’t think there people working to hack into this operating system, think again. I only do not suspect Calvin of being an enemy because I have never seen him at any time work to knock out something from underneath Marty. I do not suspect you because I know you have moved forward in every way to put your power under Marty. I actually think you and Calvin are on the same page.

    I don’t have anything else to say about this except there is no way I will be positioned to op term you. And I have no just cause myself to op term Calvin.

    “Minimum destruction, maximum creation” is an L.R.H. axiom I find I can live with very comfortably.

  580. Li'll bit of stuff

    T.O. No-one contributing to the
    ethos and theta of MOUALH is
    obliged to just simply accept
    vicious PERSONAL attacks.

    I am ready to accept anyone
    as a friend, who is able to
    simply grant beingness and
    play games that focus on the
    core elements of friendship,
    ie. genuine, unfettered ARC
    and compassion, rather than
    the overt hostility which
    appears to be emanating
    from paranoia.

    I have certainly learned an
    awful lot about the terms and
    conditions of operating on
    this blog, T.O. and if you
    would care to re-read my post
    of June 16 1.31am, I believe I
    covered several of the points
    salient to this all too frequent
    repeat cycle of witch burning.

    I won’t hesitate to man up to
    unfounded personal attacks
    and vicious slander / labels,
    whenever the need arises,
    and don’t have to pussyfoot
    around calling the perps.on
    this. and indeed, often have.

    Not everyone here, is keen
    to just live and let live, T.O.

    That is made all too obvious.

    BTW, I do PREFER to focus
    on the theta and wins on this
    blog, but always take away
    something positive from
    those who are here to help,
    such as yourself.

    ML, Calvin.

  581. Path of Buddha

    The blog won’t let me reply to your post above due to space.
    However, I will try to get the exact references to you over time.
    About 2 years ago, I did an extensive project tracking down
    everything LRH ever said about Buddhism.

    We are moving at present and all data is in boxes.

    George M. White

  582. Thank you Jim.

  583. Lizbeth – Ronnie Bell most likely doesn’t even know what a “Gravatar” is, had you even considered that ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  584. The last thing Miscavige wants is for anyone leaving the Church to standardly follow the A to E steps since they would stop supporting him, publicly expose his conspiracy, demand refund of donations obtained under false pretenses, blow all the false data keeping them unable to think with Scientology, and take full responsibility for their own part in supporting him for a time. Apparently you and Miscavige see eye to eye.

  585. Tony,
    Bingo. Perhaps.

  586. PersonalJudas

    Fair enough, Mike.
    My name is Justin Neff, I live in Cape Town, South Africa. I previously posted as FuDog. I came ‘out’ then went ‘back under’, at the request of someone dear to me, who was taking heat. This was a compromise of my own integrity (hence, the name PersonalJudas) done conciously as the connection was very important to me. This person is now pretty much out of harm’s way so here I am, back again.
    You may have a lot to offer, you may know a lot, you may have done a lot. I still say you manner is full of shit.Take it anyway you want.
    In the Study tapes LRH says, “the arrogant man is such, as he lacks the humility of vast wisdom”.
    An arsehole with medals is still an arsehole.
    It is possible to be effective and be nice to people. Maybe re-read the earlier quote from the Esto series about Tone 40.
    Anyway, I’ve said my piece, now I’ll shut up.

  587. George, I always like to see the exact reference. It’s one of the core practices of Scientology, as you know.
    But I am not worried about some ‘verbal data’. I only dislike ‘verbal data’ about upper levels, because not anyone is willing to check the original issue. It is somehow suppressive (enforced have).

  588. lizabeth, I do get what you are saying. I did not post the rules above as rules for this blog though. This is Marty’s blog and he makes the rules here. I posted them because I meant to point out that in every way Hubbard expected people to have and treat others with ARC. The parts I highlighted. I posted the entire thing because I did not want to take something out of context. If you look at the activity in the Church, it does not approximate Hubbard’s ideas of a group.He expected people to care and take responsibility for one another. I do get what you are saying and I do not disagree. It is late here too. Over here, I am just someone that came by to sit on the front porch for a while and ended up staying for the summer. I didn’t come to make / break rules and it is not my place to do so.

  589. He’s right here at the Moving On Up blog, hitting Refresh and waiting for Marty’s next post.

  590. Thanks for catching that, RD. I believe then, I have not ever heard the RJ38, and never did hear of it before.

    I was referring to RJ68.

  591. By the way. Mike – This is in response to your comments on Chris Stevens. I can totally see her writing up GAT. She is a main reason I finished the BC. I was on course when she first came on board, and my plan at the time was to finish up level B and then hold off until the whole “Ron is dead” RTC craziness of the early ’80s passed. When she showed up, I have to say that my initial response was “Oh, here we go. Another SO idiot from uplines assigned to straighted us out”. But, it was clear from literally day one that she was a different sort of person. She was busted from an exec position, and apparently the order was that she was under orders to never wear another exec hat again. So, she was the BC sup. She injected a level of theta and competence into the course room unseen since the days of Paul Koval. It must have been great working with her.

  592. To The Oracle.
    Thank you so much for clearing up your purpose of “The Creed” post, now I understand. I appreciate your understanding of my post too, thanks.
    My porch is in the back, life’s grand huh? 🙂

  593. Ouch!

  594. Calvin,

    You said, “I won’t hesitate to man up to
    unfounded personal attacks”

    I think you did a pretty good job standing up for yourself, being a HAS grad, facing two OT’s and the former Qual sec from Int.

    Take a win within the spin!

  595. Slap my face and call me nameless! I see your point! You are right! I’m beginning to see the light. XXOO

  596. Li'll bit of stuff

    T.O. It is Sunday, 17 June 10.55pm, here
    in Durban, South Africa, and I have just
    spent an amazing Father’s Day with both
    my daughters, grand kids, wife and our
    extended family. Hearing of the very real
    and tragic circumstances that family can
    get themselves into, brought into sharp
    focus just how much I as a scientologist,
    am blessed, in that I have the tech and
    understanding, to immediately as is
    where each is coming from, and to just
    simply indicate that, to them. The look
    of astonishment, as they suddenly spot
    the uninspected item / s, heave a huge
    sigh of relief, and set about as is’ing
    their own problem / s, gave me cause
    for a quiet chuckle, and satisfaction.

    Grade 11, I’ve never had the auditing
    but just apply the tech in it’s simplicity.
    Miracles are in our hands, it’s true!

    As for the situation kicking around
    involving Tony and me, I appreciate
    the untiring efforts you have made
    in appealing to reason and the need
    to refrain from ‘opp- terming’ (had to
    look that up in the Tech dictionary,
    BTW! ) You certainly have brought
    an enormous amount of experience
    and wisdom to the table, and I hope
    that it has the desired effect.

    If not, believe me, I’ve had a very
    hard life, not without some serious
    physical encounters, which I’m not
    proud of, but I have taken cues from
    Marty, in learning to refrain from the
    urge to settle things violently.

    MOUALH, one has to pay the price
    of self restraint, no matter the level
    of provocation.

    ML, Calvin.

  597. And thanks for covering Jim’s back!

  598. Maybe you misunderstood me. Yes, the Church is applying Black Scientology. That was the only point I wished to make.

  599. Happy Father’s Day! To everyone!

    “A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car i drove.
    But the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child”. Anonymous Quote (not mine)

    I reread the creed Hubbard wrote. I wondered what problem he was trying to solve when he wrote that. I think even then, decades ago, asking people to please use some ARC, it had already slipped a bit down in to the enforce band. I have no idea why I am here half a century later pushing the same idea. It is evident as time has gone by, ARC is a gift. It is not something that can be enforced, demanded, extorted out of someone or enforced. I mean, unless you are working for a company as a representative, and how civilized you act makes your pay check. Then I guess ARC can be purchased.

    If you watch the Debbie Barnes video you can figure out the concept of enforcing ARC within the staff arena was not a concept that took root. And I have moved away from pushing this idea on people.
    Hubbard couldn’t do it. And he was far better at selling ideas than I am.

    ARC is a gift that can really only be given freely in a self determined manner. If it isn’t, it is really not ARC, it is something else. Probably a social circuit. Everyone having it under their own command as a self determined act is a good thing. It is our only valuable commodity. And people should spend it as they see it as a worthy investment. Everyone is in the marketplace on the same terms. Everyone is responsible for their own exchanges. I am not going to haggle with people anymore about how they wish to spend theirs in this section of the universe. I am not an investment consultant.

    I’ve got mine in a bag here somewhere and I am off to shop.

  600. The Oracle,

    Nice! Much ARC to you….

  601. Mike Hobson. No, I hadn’t even considered it. Thanks! But does seem odd, as someone could use his or anyone’s name to post and who would know unless that person was watching. “no-such-user” is pretty suspect.

  602. Opps! I meant to say: “You’re whetting our appetite”. (sharpening and stimulating our appetite for your new book.)

  603. Dear Ronnie S,

    I was an atheist walking into Scientology, and while during the RPF (my final almost 7 years in the Sea Org was on the RPF), gradually, I realized my tens of thousands of self imagined past life incidents were my own mental creation, and had such a sense of relief realizing that, I returned to the man from mud Darwinian and scientific cosmological viewpoint (which means no soul, no ghost in our human body machine, just MEST). I had several thousand hours of past life FPRD and Truth Rundown overt chains that went pasttrack, alone, in my whole 127 pc folder “case” history in all my total 27 years of auditing in the Sea Org.

    Anyways, it’s not important, since I think that a religion or spiritual improvement practice should just deliver on making people more ethical and spiritually improved, and I would agree in many people’s cases, that Scientology does this, even though I don’t believe in the actual mental images that today I now characterize as my own mental creations (my past lives incidents, all of them).

    At times, Scientology’s acted like a very good group of people, so I’m supportive of groups that together act higher principled and somehow make the world better.

    I’m mainly in agreement with focusing on the negative in Scientology, to help them get off all they do that is bad, is all.

    I think official Scientology’s only real long range hope, is someday getting their Exec Strata functioning, taking over their hat as strategic problem solvers for the big problems the movement has.

    That Bill Franks tested the limits of what he on paper was supposed to be as ED Int, proved that Scientology’s in a very young state and underestablished stage of being even to the point of allowing Exec Strata be a major problem solving think tank body.

    I like Ken Urquhart’s viewpoint regarding LRH and the tech (even though he’s yet to even weigh in very much on the admin setups).

    I am an admin nerd of the Hubbard whole multi-echelon bureaucracies that make up the Sea Org down to the Missions and Field Groups, I think the big loopholes to reform the admin echelons and steer them away from their major problems, is the Exec Strata being allowed to hat themselves and really survey the whole scene, and make the major decisions to fix the big problems Scientology causes itself and the outside world.

    Looking at what LRH left them as options, I see Exec Strata functioning, as their way forward, and DM’s obviously an obstruction to that happening, but that’s temporary, if one thinks in decades, since we all die of old age eventually, and LRH’s admin writings and options will be there for the future generations who rise up the Sea Org ranks to rediscover.

  604. I would deliver an effective blow if I’d taken money, food, berthing or any exchange for protecting and delivering the tech and found out I had unwittingly supported an attack on the tech and prevented its delivery. I’d do all the things you say Davey wouldn’t want me to do and make sure it’s effective. But I’d never issue an executive CS for anyone who ever signed up for the IAS, paid the IRS or had any kind of relation to any suppressive group, knowingly or not, to start a general amends project from some sort of interpretation of A-E.

  605. Thanks Steve.

    My perspective is that some people miss the idea that much of the tech and policy that LRH wrote or stated was not tech or policies he “invented” or made up and then prescribed, but were based on his pan-determined obnoses of situations and what actually occurred in nature anyway and are a formal analysis of these natural processes.

    A through E may look like a Justice action from the group’s point of view, but from the individual’s point of view, it is entirely an Ethics action. As such, it can no more be enforced than any other Ethics action. The individual himself must analyze and decide how he sees things and where in truth he stands with regard to them.

    The basic consideration, it seems to me, must be “Has he really seen what he says he has seen, and has he really changed his considerations accordingly, etc.?”

    So EJ, I guess I’m not seeing the problem you see, here. The basic issue is, has the individual honestly reformed? Or is he half-hearted about it, or even outright lying about it?

  606. Exactly. DM does not have a psychiatric degree, certification or title. He is not a member of the American Psychiatric Association. He does not have a medical degree, but he is a “psych” in LRH’s sense of the word.

  607. Li'll bit of stuff

    Justin, WE need to defer, as you say, to LRH, when
    matters of style, particularly, good manners, are
    absent from a person’s comm, and become an issue
    of “the right to……..” ( THAT, to me, is arrogance, and
    I bet my bottom dollar (R8.00) that Mike is not going
    to make any conciliatory adjustments to his manner.
    I feel we may see some pompous blurt from him, just
    underpinning his manner as “perfectly acceptable.”)
    Hey, at the end of the day, we’re all unique individuals,
    and can just grant you 100% beingness, Mike, to carry
    on as you surely will,
    Just get this one straight, Mike, we’re all here on equal
    terms, and are just as deserving of the ” importance”
    you accord yourself, respect/disrespect notwithstanding.

    Justin, thanks for the reveal! Weather’s great in Durb’s
    in June! How’s it with you?
    Calvin B. Duffield Indie 500 list no.# 301

  608. XXOO 🙂 🙂 😉

  609. OK Carcha, I have checked 3 of the sources I have in my possession ( I have more, but I have to find them).

    1. Intro to Scn Ethics 1989 edition. This edition states “crime and criminal acts are PERPETRATED….” And, it does not say “2 1/2% of the 20%”. It says “and as only 2 1/2% are truly dangerous….”, not “2 1/2% of this 20%……”

    2. The “Overcoming Ups and Downs in Life” Div 6 course Life Improvement course, copyright 1988, is same as the above.

    3. The HCOB as given in The Volunteer Minister’s Handbook, published 1976, is different from the above in 2 ways: It has the word “perpetuated” instead of “perpetrated”, AND,, it states as you have claimed, “2 1/2% of this 20%…..”

    Interestingly, you say the Intro to Scn Ethics book you quote is also a 1976 edition, and it has the same text of the HCOB as the Volunteer Minister’s Handbook I have, also1976 edition.

    So, evidently, sometime after 1976, the text was changed in those 2 ways: 1. The word “perpetuated” was changed to “perpetrated”, and the way the percentages were presented was changed from “2 1/2% of the 20%…”, to “and as only 2 1/2% of the 20% are truly dangerous…..”

    So, which way did LRH actually write these? I’m not sure we’ll ever know. And I’m not sure it matters very much, for 2 reasons.

    1. The bottom line is that “about 20%”, according to LRH, have the antisocial tendencies, characteristics, and attitudes. What percentage is “truly dangerous”? Who cares? The thing to do is apply the 12 anti and the 12 social characteristics and identify the predominately destructive types so we are aware of them.

    What did LRH mean when he said “only 2 1/2% (however you interpret 2 1/2%)are truly dangerous”? Presumably, it is that only a small percentage of the anti-social are actually active enough and achieve positions in society influential enough to be “truly dangerous”. The bulk of the 20% live out their lives quietly, bumming out the occassional unfortunate individual they encounter in the course of daily life. It is unfortunate that some of these have children whose livesthey might affect very adversely,but they are not in a position to affect large populations at once by their actions.

    2. Focusing on the interpretation of the statistics really detracts from understanding and using the broader concepts and relationships LRH outlines in the 2 Bulletins/Essays.

    The important thing, I feel, is to get the concept of the social dynamics at work in the overall scene

    That is what I was trying to focus on in my Op about these 2 Bulletins. It is looking in the wrong place for the causes of the degradation of the CoS, or the rise of fascists, etc, in organization structures and policies. It is likewise looking in the wrong place, to lay all the responsibility on a evil individual who somehow almost magically takes over and creates a degraded scene.

    The truth is, any scene involving many people is co-created. It is an interaction between say, an active individual with Suppressive goals, and the “fertile ground” he is trying to manipulate towards his own ends. I believe the primary “fertile ground” are the 19% (or whatever) who are antisocial enough to back the BIg Suppressive (for lack of a better distinctive term).

    These become actively PTS and supportive of the suppressive goals and those bad hats working together lean on the more social majority to at least passively tolerate their bad goals and actions, if not to actively support them. Thus the existence of what Nixon/Agnew termed “the silent majority”.

    There’s the real WHY of many of the problems of life on Earth. It is what might be termed weaknesses in the human psyche itself, including the reluctance to risk their security, get involved, speak out against what they see is wrong, etc etc.

    That’s how I read LRH’s 2 bulletins on the Social/Antisocial personalities. I think there’s a lot of meat there, well worth knowing them well. I think they answer a lot of the questions asked on this blog. And exact percentages guessed at by LRH don’t really matter. He himself said “….ABOUT 20%……”, not an exact number.

  610. Boy Oracle, that sure warmed me ole’ heart. Good memories, loved it!
    Love you too, thank my friend. 🙂

  611. Chuck, thanks for posting your reply. Also I agree with you on liking “Ken Urquhart’s viewpoint regarding LRH and the tech”.

  612. Pingback: Ten Commandments of Scientology Inc. | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  613. “You deserved it” because of your nic. See DED EX in the tech dictionary. The next time someone tells you why “you deserved it”, have a laugh on me.

  614. RD, regarding the re-implementation of disconnection HCOB from 1982, when Robert Vaughn Young left the CofS (in the late 80s I think), he revealed that it was he (Young) who wrote that HCOB, under the orders of Miscavige — and that LRH never saw it.

  615. martyrathbun09

    He copied an LRH despatch nearly verbatim, at the directions of L. Ron Hubbard.

  616. RD, I guess you missed the comm ev announcement?

  617. George,

    A life-long wish has been to write out a “concordance” of various major teachings. I never found the time to write it, but some of it is there it is there in my mind. But keep in mind that I am not knowledgeable of Theravada in particular.

    It could be argued that a complete and total “exteriorization” would lead to a return to Native State. Native State can be understood as the complete absence of identification, differentiation, and individuation. A blissful state prior to the assumption of any “ignorance”, which LRH called Not-know.

    This to my mind is possibly comparable to the achievement proclaimed by Buddha, and an extension of the concept of exteriorization that covers any and all states described by earlier teachers.

    My basic assumption is that all the great “teachers” were walking around the same “elephant”, that which we call existence, and reporting their own obnoses of it. This should allow for a concordance to be developed, to the extent any of them actually found “a way out”.

    Thus, I tend to see your apparent differences with Jim Logan as a product of what I call “the Tower of Babel” phenomenon, per the story in the Christian Bible. It appears to me there are not only thousands of languages on Earth, but in fact billions, as each individual develops his own idiosyncratic understandings of the sense and meanings of words.

    I gather this is the problem that Key to Life was intended to handle.

    Thanks for listening/reading.

  618. Sam, you got your name back!

  619. Another poster posted this downstram, and he is quite correct. I had confused the 2 RJs.

    “Iamvalkov you’re mixing RJ 68 (from 1968) which cancelled disconnection and which is a very beautiful, on source LRH’s tape, and RJ38 (from 1983) which is a political shit called the Proof, where it seems, if it’s him, that LRH attack the “squirrels”. “

  620. And here I thought you were screwing with me. There are some important points about SP / PTS and about your post. If you consider what I am saying, it is precisely your point, but I am applying it directly to stop this “complacency” and “rumor” about what LRH wrote about the actual number of SPs (here on Earth). I observe the same things you have, that one cannot blame / succumb to one evil personality type as the sole source of all ills. When one has contact with an SP, the effect allowed upon onself is one’s own responsibility.

    1) Because both the 1976 and the 2007 ISE editions and the HCOB say that 0.5% (one-half of one percent) of the population are SP, I have to question the 1989 edition (which I do not have and have not seen).
    2) There is an enormous difference between an SP and someone who is PTS. In order to have someone PTS one has to have an SP. It seems very plainly evident to me that in the 20% and 0.5% LRH was pointing to PTS and SP respectively. A PTS can be reasoned with, even without auditing. An SP requires a specific C/S (I do not know what that C/S is, but I would imagine one has to be very 100% perfect, model session, with flawless TRs, and all the precision of theory applied).
    3) The characteristic are important, and so are the statistics. I’m not quibbling at all with your statements about reviewing the characteristics of both the anit-social and the social personalities – that’s a good idea and one could probably blow some charge just from review of those characteristics and people one knows or has known.
    4) My point is as above that the correct reading is that 0.5% are SP, and that one cannot simply i(geometrically) ncrease the number of SPs to blame for one’s own troubles, as the Co$ has done, declaring people right and left as if 96% of the population or of the original East Grinstead staff were SP. A mis-reading, a fudge, an assumption, an opinion, and pretty soon anyone could be an SP for exhibiting ONE anti-social characteristic at ONE time – or even by “opinion” of having done so. Agree with them or not, the materials state that 2 1/2% of 20% are truly dangerous. It is understood, I believe that 1/2% is an approximate estimate, but it is an estimate very worthy of close attention and accurate statement. My own observations indicate that 1/2% is probably pretty close to the truth. One goal of an SP (a very unhappy being to whom life has NOT been kind) is to make it appear there are many SP’s, that the world is a chaos, and we should not aide and abet that goal by jumping to unwarranted opinions about what LRH said and meant. The number of SPs is not large – as LRH states in the remainder of the sentence we are discussing.
    5) I’m not at all advocating a “witch hunt” for SPs. In my experience an SP is not hard to spot – if one has LRH’s data – but is indeed a “truly dangerous” being. I could write very coherently for pages. An SP is a thetan, too, just like a spitting cobra is a life form with its own objectives, which may not include being petted. There is no better living testimony than an SP, to the fact that punishment does NOT work to improve a being. If slamming, making fun of, and “getting” people worked to improve their behavior, we would all be perfect by now.

  621. OK Carch, but the fact remains that LRH wrote this:

    “There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes which cause about
    20 percent of a race to oppose violently any betterment activity or group.”

    Is it a “correct reading” that the majority of these are PTS, rather than SP?

    I don’t know. Perhaps, but perhaps they are just quiet little SPs keeping a low profile, trying to stay under the radar, as they do at bottom feel “everyone is out to get me! I better play possum!” They lack any ambition to be a Hitler or a Stalin themselves, but they approve of that kind and their suppressive programs.

    Then, the “truly dangerous” would be those few who are somehow driven to be very active and achieve positions of power and influence. There are in fact 2 aspects to the emotional tone of Fear – one is a fearfully withdrawing type and the other, an active attacking type of fear driven individual who can be rather relentless in pushing his agenda. These latter may be the “truly dangerous” ones LRH spoke of, and they indeed may be few.

    That’s how I tend to view it. I think the PTS is found among the 80% of social beings who get restimulated and begin to cave under relentless pressures of various kinds.

    So on this point we may disagree, but LRH did write 20% “oppose violently any betterment activity or group.” That reads “suppressive” to me. However, as I understand it, a person really has to display a preponderance of suppressive characteristics before we can even seriously speculate they might be an SP for real. And there needs to be a study of their entire life, pro and con, before a judgement can be made.

    That’s one way the Miscavige operation is revealed to be a criminal scam – there are no Comm Evs being done, just “verbal declares” done on a whim.

  622. Mayo was highly trained and DM is absolutely not. He flunked out of training. I don’t think his intelligence or character can be compared to Mayo’s.

    As far as feeling betrayed by Debbie Cook, perhaps the problem was that you expected her to meet your needs(for what?) far more than it was realistic to do.

  623. I see a “one-life view” as simply an individual’s preference. One may wish to start anew in full.

  624. Well, Our Television sets can’t yet be used to directly monitor us 24/7, but drone spy planes are already flying our beautiful and spacious skies, and their use is expected to only grow:

  625. Pingback: Thanks For Participating | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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